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[00:15:47] <Crom> .join #linpeople #arduino
[02:17:00] <Deejay> moin
[02:28:09] <Crom> morning
[02:34:20] <pink_vampire> good early morning
[02:34:37] <pink_vampire> here is 3 AM :)
[02:42:46] <Deejay> 9 AM :)
[02:43:11] <evil_ren> you guys are wrong
[02:43:20] <evil_ren> its like midnight
[02:44:07] <pink_vampire> LOL
[02:44:23] <pink_vampire> I'm lost
[02:45:56] <XXCoder> heh I laugh each time I see this
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/3/6/507736_v1.jpg
[02:46:03] <XXCoder> who the heck thought that up
[02:47:46] <pink_vampire> good one
[02:50:15] <pink_vampire> why when I'm talk in the reprap channel it seems that the problems there are so weird??
[02:50:29] <XXCoder> because rerap is weird
[02:50:34] <pink_vampire> melting the gears on the extruder.
[02:50:59] <pink_vampire> the extruder is too heavy on the Z axis
[02:51:33] <pink_vampire> the axtruder motor can't push 3mm filament on direct drive.
[02:51:57] <pink_vampire> you have to use 1.75mm
[02:52:37] <pink_vampire> and the best one!
[02:53:31] <evil_ren> waiting furiously for bestone
[02:53:33] <pink_vampire> you have to "auto level" the machine before printing. because the Z axis is not perpendicular to the table
[02:53:51] <pink_vampire> sorry CST - type slow.
[02:54:04] <evil_ren> is that what 'calibration' is?
[02:54:20] <pink_vampire> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome
[02:54:33] <evil_ren> 3d printer geeks are weird, have 3d world problems
[02:54:54] <pink_vampire> you have to run it before every print.
[02:55:19] <evil_ren> because it loses steps or what
[02:55:34] <pink_vampire> no..
[02:56:45] <pink_vampire> it's because is made out of plastics, and deform after the print because the heat
[02:56:51] <pink_vampire> evil_ren: ^
[02:56:52] <archivist> because storing the calibration or fixing Z is hard
[02:58:09] <pink_vampire> archivist: but as long as the Z axis is perpendicular to the table, and the table is flat, you are good to go.
[02:58:20] <evil_ren> haha no way!
[02:58:22] <evil_ren> hahaha
[02:59:23] <pink_vampire> so as a person that came from metal working to 3d printing, everything look like junk for me.
[02:59:51] <evil_ren> well, reprap is trash
[03:00:07] <pink_vampire> also, NEVER say servo
[03:00:12] <evil_ren> statasys and objet stuff is pretty good
[03:00:13] <pink_vampire> NEVER
[03:00:34] <evil_ren> like, it it what it is, i prefer machined prototypes, but for FDM and similar 3d prints they nice
[03:00:49] <evil_ren> SLA is sexy a fuck, bit brittle
[03:01:02] <pink_vampire> SLS is sexy
[03:01:23] <evil_ren> but yeah, material removal based prototypes are so much more functional
[03:01:24] <pink_vampire> plastic powder.
[03:01:27] <evil_ren> usually look way better
[03:01:53] <evil_ren> yeah the powder based stuff ive seen looks cosmetically better
[03:02:10] <evil_ren> but still looks like trash structurally
[03:02:29] <pink_vampire> what?
[03:02:51] <pink_vampire> those are 10K$ machines
[03:03:01] <evil_ren> which?
[03:03:11] <pink_vampire> SLS
[03:03:29] <evil_ren> so pretty cheap, for a professional 3d printer
[03:03:56] <pink_vampire> start at..
[03:05:04] <evil_ren> not sure what point youre making
[03:05:48] <pink_vampire> me to :)
[03:06:04] <pink_vampire> anyway for the stuff that I need the dual FDM will do the job.
[03:06:20] <evil_ren> the objet printer i worked with was well over $100k, and was like cottage cheese, structurally
[03:06:52] <pink_vampire> omg
[03:07:06] <pink_vampire> that bad.
[03:07:35] <evil_ren> FDM is less crumbly, but cosmetically way worse
[03:08:10] <evil_ren> and when i say cottage cheese i mean like, cast aluminum
[03:08:34] <evil_ren> it could hold pretty thin walls on a good day, it didnt cure consistently
[03:08:35] <pink_vampire> but on a 3 axis machine is the easiest to implement
[03:09:18] <evil_ren> yeah if you want to 3d print on a mill i think FDM is the obvious approach
[03:09:29] <pink_vampire> do you know about good direct drive extruder?
[03:09:34] <evil_ren> no
[03:09:45] <pink_vampire> :(
[03:09:54] <pink_vampire> O_o
[03:34:51] <witnit> these reprap machines are funny because when they build, they spend all this money to make these machines poorly. When really they could just switch to servo's and some affordable ballscrews and eliminate 95% of their issues, a couple linear rails from ebay and they got a really quiet slick machine.
[03:36:25] <witnit> most of the machines could be replaced with a reasonably well made gantry style router and their favorite extruder thing
[03:37:08] <witnit> im surprised a robotic arm and rotary table hasnt turned into the next best thing for them
[03:40:31] <Meduza> Actually i would not replace the timing belts on my fdm printer with ballscrews
[03:42:27] <Meduza> The printer would need to be about ten times heavier and quite a bit bulkier to be able to do the same accelerations
[03:43:28] <XXCoder> I wonder if I can use my SBRs and ballscrews to make 3d printer lol
[03:43:43] <XXCoder> but i ont plan to do it till I am well along on running router
[03:48:49] <witnit> i would like to make up for a light machine for one which doesnt leave steps in the work and can go much faster and make less noise. The delta style robot is most likely the best choice over all though, but with servos :)
[03:49:29] <pink_vampire> from what I see If you can get about 500mm/min you can try to make a 3d printer with your cnc machine
[03:50:08] <witnit> I wondered why i havent seen any bridgport extruder attachements yet
[03:50:22] <witnit> oh this spelling tonight^
[03:50:47] <pink_vampire> witnit: you need high feed rate.
[03:50:57] <XXCoder> lets see. my machine can do max 20mm/s
[03:51:02] <witnit> yeah sounds like some inertia you dont want to deal with
[03:51:29] <XXCoder> thats 1200 mm/min. od
[03:51:30] <XXCoder> odd
[03:51:32] <witnit> delta pick and place has got to be a good style or just convert some scara
[03:51:36] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: it's fast enough
[03:51:55] <XXCoder> yeah but router isnt tallk enough unless want wide or long prints lol
[03:52:46] <witnit> maybe the machines need redesigned so they take less travel requirments
[03:53:00] <witnit> you could make the part sink down into the table as it works it
[03:53:07] <pink_vampire> you can glue 2 parts together
[03:53:25] <witnit> some sort of verticle feed down table
[03:53:37] <witnit> like a swiss lathe
[03:53:38] <XXCoder> good ideas, all that but I dont plan to use router as 3d printer :)
[03:53:53] <pink_vampire> why not?
[03:54:05] <pink_vampire> you have the motors, the drivers, the controller.
[03:54:15] <pink_vampire> you just need to add an extruder.
[03:54:23] <witnit> you can make us enclosers for our pcbs
[03:54:33] <witnit> enclosures*
[03:54:38] <XXCoder> I already has parts I planned to use on router but never did
[03:54:44] <XXCoder> as well as use em
[03:54:55] <witnit> we just want you to make something
[03:55:04] <pink_vampire> LOL
[03:55:13] <XXCoder> I will as soon as my machine is in place it can run lol
[03:55:36] <pink_vampire> I want the 28 of march to came.
[03:56:01] <witnit> ooh okay I got it, what if you build a mini elevator shaft right with cable and all on two linear rails
[03:56:16] <witnit> then the top of the elevator is the table for the reparap
[03:56:25] <witnit> and then router just above it
[03:56:58] <witnit> so you just lower your elevator and you can make 3 foot tall plastic trash cans
[03:57:37] <witnit> or a vase, you could make a vase with plastic flowers in it
[03:59:05] <pink_vampire> witnit: you are very creative
[03:59:12] <witnit> heh thanks
[03:59:47] <witnit> nobody takes me serious until its already patented :)
[04:00:35] <pink_vampire> ok..
[04:01:37] <witnit> I was in 7th grade and told my dad to invest in google because "it had the best search ever" well, we didnt invest in google
[04:02:54] <pink_vampire> :(
[04:03:08] <witnit> yeah I still hurt a little inside over that
[04:03:43] <pink_vampire> why there is no decent extruder servo based direct drive??
[04:05:14] <witnit> maybe they have something beneficial in the low speed torque, I dont know anything about them
[04:06:11] <pink_vampire> the e3d V6 seams to be very common now
[04:06:39] <Meduza> Yes, even tough it has quite some problems with pla...
[04:07:51] <Meduza> (it hurts me to see people suggest oiling the filament to make it print in the E3D V6
[04:08:27] <witnit> looks like it could be completely re-engineered with small aluminum structure and maybe some filament guide bushings
[04:08:46] <pink_vampire> there is better one?
[04:08:50] <witnit> maybe some ceramic parts in it
[04:09:31] <pink_vampire> ceramic?
[04:10:27] <witnit> yeah I think they would probably be more wear resistant than the plastic guides
[04:10:31] <witnit> for the filament
[04:10:44] <witnit> also heat barrier for the aluminum head
[04:10:55] <witnit> like a spark plug
[04:11:10] <XXCoder> I wonder if tungein heads would work
[04:11:28] <XXCoder> they use tungein for wire pulling after all, it is tough
[04:11:39] <witnit> im not sure how those work but I dont think its good to draw too much heat away too quickly from the main element area
[04:11:51] <XXCoder> and with melting temp at over 4k C it would laugh at melting plastics
[04:11:59] <witnit> ha yesh
[04:12:20] <XXCoder> we dont know how melted tungein is like ya know? nothing can contain it
[04:12:53] <XXCoder> hm
[04:13:07] <XXCoder> it'd be perfect for 3d printing with abusive plastics actually
[04:13:12] <witnit> what about zero gravity
[04:13:20] <XXCoder> evenually.
[04:13:31] <XXCoder> we'd have to be careful as heck lol
[04:14:54] <witnit> also wouldnt most of the reprap machines benefit from just adding an encoder?
[04:16:49] <pink_vampire> thereis a way to make 3 extruders 3d printer?
[04:17:47] <pink_vampire> 0.4 nozzle 0.8 nozzle and support material?
[04:19:24] <witnit> I dont know this language
[04:20:07] <pink_vampire> what do you mean?
[04:20:25] <witnit> I dont know anything about 3d printers so I dont really know hahaha
[04:21:58] <XXCoder> nozzle and size is size of hole plastic gets "gooped out"
[04:22:29] <XXCoder> support material I think is secondary plastic used to support parts on model that overhangs too far to be reliably printed?
[04:23:12] <witnit> ohh
[04:23:27] <witnit> look at this
https://youtu.be/o4Ok0LQx0Uc?t=144
[04:24:30] <XXCoder> yeah saw that before
[04:24:32] <XXCoder> huge isnt it heh
[04:26:37] <MrSunshine> hmm, need to cut 4 thin rings of brass shim stock ... 0.2mm is that cutable with a knife? =)
[04:27:03] <XXCoder> just use siccors
[04:27:10] <XXCoder> (cant spell that dang word)
[04:27:13] <MrSunshine> the inside part is hard with scissors =)
[04:28:00] <witnit> .0078in
[04:28:11] <witnit> you need a tool to do it proper
[04:28:15] <witnit> have you seen them before?
[04:28:17] <XXCoder> hm yea
[04:28:30] <witnit> they look like a pin and die
[04:28:31] <XXCoder> siccors work with .002 or thereabouts
[04:28:46] <XXCoder> .002" I mean heh
[04:29:06] <XXCoder> never knew about proper shim cutters though
[04:29:24] <witnit> MrSunshine:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/images/client/Punch-and-Die-Set-In-Use.jpg
[04:29:46] <MrSunshine> that would have been neat to have =)
[04:32:27] <witnit> im sure its one of those things you cant live without once you have used one
[04:33:47] <XXCoder> neat.
[04:33:53] <XXCoder> any tool for nice square ones
[04:34:06] <witnit> scissors
[04:34:07] <witnit> hahahah
[04:34:13] <XXCoder> heh
[04:35:10] <witnit> http://www.megafab.com/images/T_counter02.gif
[04:35:21] <witnit> maybe something like that would get you by
[04:35:33] <witnit> DIY
[04:36:22] <XXCoder> nah scissors isfine
[04:37:00] <witnit> i always thought tangential cutters were really good, ever have experience with them?
[04:37:55] <witnit> the finish always came out with my box tools best
[04:41:36] <Sync> XXCoder: tungsten? we can melt tungsten easily
[04:41:52] <XXCoder> sure but hard to contain result lol
[04:41:52] <witnit> but what can we hold it in?!
[04:43:20] <Sync> witnit: water cooled copper
[04:44:09] <witnit> yeah XXCoder why didnt you think of that
[04:44:23] <XXCoder> dunno
[04:44:45] <witnit> i totally knew that, was just testing you
[04:46:07] <XXCoder> as a rule I replace all "totally" with "not" heh (sub for approate for sentence, in your case, "didn't"
[04:46:10] <XXCoder> ;)
[04:46:31] <XXCoder> noting on tungein casting
[04:48:13] <XXCoder> *nothing
[09:14:23] <_methods> http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/02/linux-mint-hit-by-malware-infection-on-its-website-and-forum-after-hack-attack/
[09:14:33] <_methods> i know some people on here use mint
[09:26:13] <JT-Shop> I do but downloaded a while back
[09:30:40] <_methods> yeah just figured i'd throw that out there as PSA
[09:41:09] <miss0r> I have a Jakobsen sj-16 surface grinder. I realy don't have enough space for it. so I am thinking of replacing it with a thomas model 71. I know the jakobsen is a good machine. but I don't know about the thomas. do any of you guys have a clue if it is any good?
[09:44:17] <_methods> never heard of either
[09:44:26] <_methods> but i'm not a grinder guy either
[09:44:33] <miss0r> They are both danish made.
[09:44:38] <miss0r> thats probally why
[09:44:50] <_methods> i just don't know much about grinding
[09:45:03] <miss0r> this is the jakobsen:
http://www.wotol.com/images/thumbs/800x800/1089503_8b409f97000033bf92eac786f3c2aa63.jpg
[09:45:07] <_methods> i know enough for simple grinding stuff
[09:45:23] <miss0r> mleh... kid needs food
[09:45:27] <_methods> yeah that looks nice
[09:45:28] <miss0r> bbl
[10:03:54] <pink_vampire> hi
[10:10:42] <Roguish> JT-Shop. hey, i spent the weekend rebuilding my BP control panel. oh joy.
[10:12:10] <balestrino> hi, when i do homing what kind of GCode is used (if any) to move machine at reference point (home switches)?
[10:15:26] <Roguish> look under the G code section:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/
[10:15:46] <Roguish> G28 (i think)
[10:18:54] <balestrino> seems that it's not G28 to reference axes. G28 uses the values stored in parameters 5161-5166
[10:19:57] <Erant> GAH, I still have backlash in my Z axis.
[10:22:18] <Erant> It's looking like there's a bunch of stiction in the dovetail, and the screw needs to overcome the stiction.
[10:22:54] <Erant> Wonder if replacing the gib with some delrin would help.
[10:23:40] <Erant> Or I could be reckless and replace the dovetail with a linear ball slide :)
[10:24:03] <Sync> how is your oiling setup?
[10:25:26] <Erant> I manually oil it before every op.
[10:44:01] <JT-Shop> Roguish: that sounds like fun
[10:44:27] <Roguish> well, it finally works again. took lots of hours.
[10:44:53] <Roguish> and it was not fun. missed my ride yesterday...
[10:45:26] <JT-Shop> we had unusually nice weather yesterday so we went for a ride on the BlueWing
[10:47:00] <yasnak> _methods: it was just people who downloaded cinnamon starting on the 20th right?
[10:48:11] <JT-Shop> on the 20th
[10:48:23] <JT-Shop> I'm sure they fixed the hack right away
[10:48:30] <_methods> i don't know i just posted it here since i know some people here use it
[10:48:35] <_methods> i haven't used mint in years
[11:15:17] <jdh> jpegs?
[11:28:15] <joem_> best embedded platform for motion control? my drivers and motors can handle 51200 steps per revolution and a paraport just isn't fast enough
[11:28:50] <archivist> mesa card
[11:29:06] <joem_> neat fpga
[11:29:23] <archivist> why so many steps per rev, you set the microstepping too high ?
[11:29:44] <joem_> ah, the're servo motors with hi res encoder wheels in a closed loop config
[11:30:19] <pink_vampire> archivist: molecular level cnc machine
[11:30:20] <joem_> so not techinally microstepping, just setting the resolution
[11:30:30] <joem_> LOL
[11:30:34] <archivist> then the mesa card is the only real option to count the encoders fast enough
[11:30:42] <joem_> closed loop, they count themselves
[11:30:53] <joem_> the drivers have dual PID controllers for the loop
[11:31:09] <pink_vampire> joem_: why you need it?
[11:31:19] <pink_vampire> it's very slow
[11:31:38] <joem_> need what?
[11:31:39] <joem_> what's slow?
[11:31:58] <joem_> sec i can grab link to motor & drivers, sec
[11:32:01] <pink_vampire> 51K lines ppr
[11:32:28] <pink_vampire> I have encoders with 2048PPQ
[11:32:38] <joem_> * tcurdt (~tcurdt@vmd8071.contabo.host) has joined
[11:32:43] <gregcnc> all depends on what you're doing and what you want
[11:32:45] <pink_vampire> and this is too much.
[11:32:53] <joem_> lol why was that on my clipbaord
[11:32:56] <joem_> http://servomotor.net/os/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=79
[11:33:35] <pink_vampire> the backlash is more than the resolution... so
[11:34:13] <gregcnc> that says encoder is 1000 lines
[11:34:18] <joem_> yes, but
[11:34:26] <joem_> it has two optical elements
[11:34:37] <gregcnc> so quad is 4000
[11:34:48] <joem_> two?
[11:34:59] <joem_> yeah, ea and eb
[11:35:18] <joem_> and then the encoder pid loop determines position
[11:35:26] <gregcnc> no poin in trying to resolve 51,200 steps from a stepper
[11:35:29] <joem_> interpolates the "space between"
[11:35:49] <joem_> right
[11:36:14] <CaptHindsight> I'm going to make servo driven steppers with 5V input vs Step and Dir
[11:36:58] <pink_vampire> WHY stepper???
[11:37:03] <pink_vampire> just WHY??
[11:37:16] <joem_> A pulse + direction
[11:37:16] <joem_> (classic), Pulse + 2 in the opposite direction
[11:37:16] <joem_> (cw/ccw) Three pairs of pulses... whats this one?
[11:37:44] <pink_vampire> if you are have a problem with steps the encoder not going to do anything!
[11:38:00] <Meduza> pink_vampire: is there any reasonably priced servos and drivers aviable nowdays (long time since i built my last cnc machine now...)?
[11:38:14] <pink_vampire> I have the G320X
[11:38:15] <joem_> what's resonably priced?
[11:38:19] <pink_vampire> work fine.
[11:38:41] <Meduza> I have a ongoing project that i just started building on again after a long time just sitting in my garage
[11:38:45] <pink_vampire> 300$ motor + driver + encoder
[11:39:08] <Meduza> it is a cnc router with dual 25mm ballscrews for X axis
[11:39:21] <Meduza> about 100x80cm work envelope
[11:39:46] <pink_vampire> did you measure the torque that you need?
[11:40:09] <Meduza> all aluminium profiles and waterjet cut 12mm aluminium plates
[11:40:26] <Meduza> pink_vampire: nope, i have not mounted the screws yet
[11:40:40] <pink_vampire> so.. mount it.
[11:40:49] <pink_vampire> measure the torque..
[11:41:03] <pink_vampire> and only! than get the right motor.
[11:41:16] <Meduza> i was thinking about just going with a bunch of G201's and 3nm Nema23's i have lying around since another project
[11:41:26] <Meduza> steppers*
[11:41:49] <Meduza> but i would rather mount servos if there is any that would not break my bank :)
[11:42:09] <pink_vampire> ok..
[11:42:12] <pink_vampire> look.
[11:42:37] <pink_vampire> good stepper driver and the G320X is almost the same price.
[11:42:59] <Meduza> yes, but the motors tend to be many hundred dollars each...
[11:42:59] <pink_vampire> used AC servo driver also the same price.
[11:44:21] <Meduza> i have two 500W yaskawa AC servos and one 300W one lying in my parts bin also, and a bunch of drivers, but those old 80's drivers seem like a nightmare to set up
[11:44:25] <pink_vampire> BUT without know the correct torque that you need + 50% you cant buy anything - this is the basic
[11:45:03] <Meduza> and how the do i measure the torque without mounting exactly everything and doing a test cut in something?
[11:45:51] <pink_vampire> you can get a used driver that use step/dir and normal AB encoder.
[11:46:29] <Meduza> yeah, i belive the old drivers are 0-10V ones
[11:46:41] <Meduza> with some properitary encoder
[11:47:15] <Meduza> also the servos are 200V ones
[11:47:16] <pink_vampire> you set everything and make an arm that connect to the axis, and you can put a scale or use a torque meter.
[11:47:30] <Meduza> and that gets even harder with a dual screw setup
[11:47:36] <pcw_home> for a small system I would be tempted to use the new hybrid step drives
[11:47:47] <pink_vampire> ok.. so clearly you don't want to use them..
[11:47:52] <gregcnc> what are you measuring? static friction?
[11:48:16] <pcw_home> the ones _joem linked to are true servos
[11:48:36] <pcw_home> so they cannot stall like a step motor system
[11:48:44] <Meduza> pink_vampire: if there was some nice drives that i could just connect and run a auto-tune or something and be done with it, without shelling out a months pay or so, then i would use them, no problem
[11:49:32] <Meduza> otherwise, it will cost me too much time and money, and i would be forced to go with the steppers
[11:49:41] * joem_ hreturns
[11:49:53] <joem_> the ones i linked do have an auto tune function
[11:49:57] <joem_> i hear its loud and noisy and scary
[11:49:59] <pink_vampire> on a DIY cnc machine there is misalignment' there is friction and stuff like that. to take the kitchen scale + arm, or to get is done with torque meter is 5 min.. and you know that you get the correct motors to your machine
[11:51:38] <gregcnc> cutting forces and acceleration need more torque than what's needed to break static friction
[11:52:22] <pink_vampire> also, remember, this is a hobby there is no reason to rush , is you can save abit more money over time and get it done right in half a year instead of junk on this moment.
[11:55:07] <pink_vampire> Meduza: ^
[11:55:46] <pink_vampire> there is only one why to do stuff - to do it right.
[11:57:35] <pink_vampire> ?
[11:59:04] <archivist> gregcnc, until you have a very unbalanced weight on the table :)
[12:01:39] <gregcnc> maybe I don't know.
[12:02:31] <archivist> I started adding balance weights to keep the thing running :)
[12:04:22] <gregcnc> slide ways?
[12:05:47] <archivist> yup,they were sticking a lot, the angle plate is a weight, not holding the stepper up
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_07_10_cnc_with_LCD_P4/IMG_0268.JPG
[12:15:11] <__rob> bloddy tormach
[12:15:14] <maxcnc> hi all from a still stormy Germany
[12:15:21] <__rob> their "centre boss find" routing went nuts
[12:15:28] <__rob> and just pinged off my £50 probe tip
[12:15:31] <__rob> awesome
[12:15:31] <maxcnc> what a miss to show coustomer colored moving models
[12:15:40] <__rob> routine
[12:16:16] <maxcnc> from Pro/E via step to freecad via vrml to blender via FBX to android hdmodelview
[12:17:03] <maxcnc> best to get the student version on ProE to make animation mechanisem
[12:18:51] <CaptHindsight> is the student version still called Pro/E or is there one for Creo?
[12:19:40] <maxcnc> i mean creo4.0
[12:20:07] <maxcnc> http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/2axes.mpg
[12:20:12] <maxcnc> looks cool
[12:21:48] <maxcnc> 3ds displays also color on android cast to big presentation screen
[12:22:12] <maxcnc> realy nice in modern world media managments
[12:22:42] <maxcnc> tonight we expect 2inches of snow here in the south west of germany
[12:23:03] <CaptHindsight> 1m long CNC carrot peeler?
[12:23:20] <maxcnc> eaple start to come to the shop and asking for gbig even bigger mashines
[12:23:55] <maxcnc> 2,5mx2.5 wood engraver 2 asked in the last 48work hour
[12:24:07] <maxcnc> people ;-)
[12:26:14] <maxcnc> Question in english what is a mauel wood lathe with a steel chipper called no translation found on this
[12:26:44] <maxcnc> carpet man do fence post with that
[12:27:03] <maxcnc> "Drechselbank" in germany
[12:28:06] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: i actualy made a planting mashine that style for a 48 brackets plant street
[12:28:46] <gregcnc> just "wood lathe" I would guess
[12:29:02] <maxcnc> lathe is the translation i got
[12:30:44] <enleth> maxcnc: the german language's tendency to produce a unique, absurdly long word for just about any slightly distinct object out there doesn't really translate to english I guess
[12:31:22] <maxcnc> yeah thats why most here drink alot of beer
[12:34:47] <maxcnc> just a quick guess on the 2,5 by 2,5
http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/bigwood.mpg
[12:35:20] <maxcnc> rack and pinion driven on 8Nm Stepeprs
[12:36:44] <maxcnc> 3k coust sold at 6k
[12:38:19] <maxcnc> any guess on more performence stabality on your knolige base
[12:40:50] <maxcnc> k im ogg Gn8
[12:41:11] <maxcnc> cand find the write key's anymore
[12:48:25] <Meduza> joem_: the servos you linked, have you tried them, and do they work well?
[12:49:19] <joem_> they arrive tomorrow
[12:49:47] <Meduza> okay, please tell here how they work, they seem intresting :-)
[12:52:05] <joem_> i like how if they detect too much torque (i.e. crash, motor stop, etc) they will alert the electronics to kill everything
[12:52:24] <Meduza> yep, that is a nice feature
[12:52:35] <Meduza> and the price were not too bad either
[12:52:47] <joem_> i hear that can also be used as endstops
[12:53:52] <joem_> Meduza, oh?
[12:54:41] <joem_> i actually didn't order them from that site, $240 was not the best price
[12:55:00] <joem_> $152 from china with free shipping (about 7 days transit, for me, in colorado)
[12:55:01] <joem_> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/servo-motor-86HB250-118B-HB860D-Closed-loop-step-motor-8-5N-m-Nema-86-Hybird-closed/32596083003.html
[12:55:37] <Meduza> that is cheap, if they work as good as the specs say
[12:55:38] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfKGWAivpkA
[12:55:50] <_methods> better than monkeypuppybaby
[12:55:56] <_methods> drunkeymonkeyknife
[12:56:11] <Meduza> i am always a little sceptical towards no-name motor drives and such
[12:56:37] <pink_vampire> why not to use dc?
[12:57:01] <joem_> eh?
[12:57:08] <pink_vampire> DC servo
[12:57:51] <joem_> oh, ac servos can ramp faster and brake faster (if 3 phase)
[12:58:14] <joem_> these aren't, but lol
[12:58:37] <joem_> i think they'll last longer, aren't dc servo motors brushed?
[12:58:42] <joem_> ac servo motors don't use brushes
[12:59:28] <pink_vampire> I have the DC servos.
[12:59:48] <pink_vampire> and they accelerate very fast.
[13:00:36] <joem_> oh i'm sure
[13:00:47] <joem_> dc servos are great, can match them up with different drivers easier, etc
[13:00:54] <joem_> better price than ac as well
[13:02:02] <pink_vampire> but you have to clean the brushes
[13:02:29] <joem_> yeah, and they have higher inertia rate
[13:03:12] <pink_vampire> I can't wait to get all the other parts.
[13:03:49] <pink_vampire> the estimate is the 28 of march
[13:04:29] <pink_vampire> joem_: ^
[13:04:42] <joem_> i still need to figure out control lol
[13:04:51] <joem_> i'm thinking beaglebone
[13:05:00] <joem_> with a relay board for controlling power to stuff
[13:05:18] <joem_> 28 march!
[13:05:21] <joem_> sheesh thats a lifetime away
[13:06:10] <joem_> i'm just now finishing building a flood table stand thingie for my machine
[13:06:13] <joem_> https://imgur.com/a/EQRgx
[13:06:23] <joem_> which is currently on the floor in pieces
[13:06:25] <joem_> big, heavy pieces
[13:08:47] <_methods> you're making your coolant pan out of mdf?
[13:10:50] <joem_> yeah
[13:10:52] <joem_> coated in epoxy
[13:10:58] <archivist> erm wtf
[13:11:00] <joem_> so much epoxy....
[13:11:10] <pink_vampire|2> use fiberglass.
[13:11:24] <joem_> eh i figured if i was to use fiberglass, i'd have to build a mould
[13:11:28] <joem_> and a mould would be in a shape of... well
[13:11:55] <_methods> what do you think is going to happen when you drop something in the coolant pan?
[13:12:04] <_methods> something heavy that chips the epoxy
[13:12:06] <pink_vampire|2> you can make the mold from MDF
[13:12:19] <joem_> thats what i'm saying
[13:12:37] <joem_> why make a mold and then a fiberglass tray if the mold will serve the purpose of the tray
[13:12:41] <joem_> _methods, lol
[13:12:59] <pink_vampire|2> MDF...water..
[13:13:12] <joem_> water...proof...
[13:13:39] <Jymmm> Um, $13 coolant tray...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plasgad-Black-Large-Concrete-Mixing-Tub-887102C/205451585
[13:13:41] <pink_vampire|2> just use stainless steel sheets.
[13:13:50] <joem_> lol isn't that cute
[13:13:59] <joem_> yeah, stainless sheet metal woudl be best, imho
[13:14:21] <Erant> Yeah, MDF is not a great idea for a coolant pan, probably.
[13:14:32] <joem_> ok think of it like this
[13:14:36] <joem_> its not an MDF coolant pan
[13:14:37] <pink_vampire|2> http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/8d/8dcbef89-4f6c-406e-987e-87e5e2a6c6ad_400.jpg
[13:14:41] <pink_vampire|2> LOL
[13:14:42] <joem_> its an epoxy coolant pan that is held up by mdf
[13:14:58] <Erant> joem_: I think the point is that epoxy chips.
[13:15:07] <Jymmm> And MDF when fastened on end, has a tendancy to split real easily
[13:15:15] <pink_vampire|2> epoxy can get crack..
[13:15:19] <joem_> if i drop something heavy enough to chip marine epoxy, i'm thinking i'll have bigger issues
[13:15:34] <Jymmm> pond liner and metal corner brackets
[13:15:48] <Jymmm> if you want to go ghettofaboulous!
[13:16:03] <joem_> lol i've seen that, big rubber sheet
[13:16:03] <Erant> Jymmm: I'm actually considering something like that for me. Instead of making a pan around the X-slide.
[13:16:21] <Jymmm> Erant: Hey, it works =)
[13:16:29] <pink_vampire|2> you can use mist and avoid the tray..
[13:16:38] <joem_> true
[13:16:41] <joem_> mister mister
[13:16:52] <Erant> pink_vampire|2: Right, I'm a little concerned about the air requirements for that.
[13:17:18] <pink_vampire|2> let's find out.
[13:17:25] <Erant> I have a 15A breaker, which means I can't do much more than a 1HP motor, which doesn't produce a ton of SCFM.
[13:17:33] <CaptHindsight> place a net over the epoxy pan to catch heavy objects
[13:17:39] <Jymmm> And that tray/table loops liek it tip as soon as oyu lay down a heavy part not realizing it
[13:18:00] <talootwds> hi guys
[13:18:04] <Erant> (Also, a 1HP compressor for a 250W mill seems a little... excessive
[13:18:31] <CaptHindsight> pneumatic powered mill?
[13:18:32] <Jymmm> Erant: but a 10HP will be just enough ;)
[13:18:53] <talootwds> i think its not good idea
[13:18:54] <joem_> one could sit on the edge of this table
[13:19:01] <talootwds> penumtric advantages not there
[13:19:19] <pink_vampire|2> you need about 0.3to 1CFM
[13:19:21] <CaptHindsight> cnc jackhammer
[13:19:22] <joem_> the base is a bit larger than i think it needed to be, but alas
[13:19:33] <talootwds> oh ok
[13:19:36] <joem_> the joys of working in a basement shop where you can have proper heavy machinery
[13:19:42] <joem_> can't*
[13:20:01] <Erant> pink_vampire|2: I've read you require a lot more... Where did you get that?
[13:21:01] <pink_vampire|2> now I see that it's really depend of the cutter that you want to cool down and the heat that it generate.
[13:21:15] <CaptHindsight> teleoperated version could be handy
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Excavator_jackhammer.jpg
[13:21:21] <Erant> pink_vampire|2: I mostly just want chip evacuation.
[13:21:37] <talootwds> i have qestion does the userspace, doing stepgen?
[13:21:42] <talootwds> or only rtai
[13:21:59] <pink_vampire|2> Erant: pulsing air.
[13:22:44] <Erant> When I do deep pockets, I end up recutting chips a lot :(
[13:23:16] <pink_vampire|2> so just air can solve it.
[13:23:33] <pink_vampire|2> what kind a machine is that?
[13:23:55] <Erant> pink_vampire|2: It's a tiny mill.
[13:24:00] <Erant> Micro mill, Sieg SX1P
[13:24:31] <pink_vampire|2> Awww CUTE one
[13:24:37] <Erant> I know! :)
[13:24:43] <Erant> But it fits in my garage.
[13:24:46] <pink_vampire|2> I have the G0704
[13:25:18] <pink_vampire|2> my in inside the living room :)
[13:25:33] <Erant> So yeah, maybe I'll just get a small compressor and manually blow chips out?
[13:26:46] <pink_vampire|2> what I mean that you can take small compressor, even the 12V car compressor with small tank, and pulse the air.
[13:27:42] <pink_vampire|2> or even to use small blower.
[13:28:10] <pink_vampire|2> Erant: ^
[13:28:58] <pink_vampire|2> ?
[13:29:18] <pink_vampire|2> he is gone O_o
[13:29:21] <pink_vampire|2> :(
[13:29:43] <pink_vampire|2> I'm here by my self
[13:29:55] <pink_vampire|2> i'm alone in my life
[13:30:35] <pink_vampire|2> This place feel so empty now
[13:31:32] <pink_vampire|2> even talootwds left this room.
[13:31:47] <pink_vampire|2> so now it's empty -1
[13:32:46] <CaptHindsight> 162 people by my count
[13:33:01] <pink_vampire|2> it's a live!
[13:33:18] <CaptHindsight> do you gave everyone on ignore?
[13:33:24] <pink_vampire|2> no
[13:52:13] <Erant> pink_vampire: BACK!
[13:52:40] <Erant> Sorry, I'm at work and I have to between various buildings at times.
[13:52:43] <Erant> go*
[13:53:23] <Erant> pink_vampire: So, yeah, I guess I could. I'd probably get a small 1HP compressor instead, for stuff like paint sprayers and whatnot
[13:56:41] <gregcnc> did you try the vac yet?
[13:57:53] <Erant> No, I should. I need to find a loc-line for it
[13:58:10] <Erant> I have a 1/2" one, and I think it's restricting flow too much
[13:58:22] <Erant> bbiab, lunchtime!
[14:29:57] <MrSunshine> to much weight, machine cant descelerate .. the motors doesnt have enough torque =)
[14:30:38] <_methods> diet time
[14:30:46] <_methods> lose some weight fatty machine
[14:31:18] <MrSunshine> yeah, the Z axis is far to beefy
[14:31:32] <MrSunshine> with 15mm steel L bracket with extra support welde don etc :P
[14:33:11] <MrSunshine> hell that part alone is somewhere between 5 - 10kg :P
[14:33:24] <MrSunshine> then the spindle motor and linear guides and stepper motor etc on that :P
[15:59:59] <Magnifikus_> got my kress 1050 today, miles ahead of our noname spindle :)
[16:00:26] <Magnifikus_> 8mm 2 flute @7k rpm in alumium, nice chips :)
[16:00:30] <Magnifikus_> and so smoooooth
[16:00:55] <Magnifikus_> guess next year we get a real spindle :)
[16:01:40] <Erant> gregcnc: I'll give the shopvac a shot, see if I can hold it close with a small-ish nozzle and have it suck the chips out.
[16:08:41] <witnit> I just talked to a guy in the states here who is selling some pretty serious machines and hes using linux based arduino controls and having all his coding done in india, he wants to bring the work back to the states. not sure what to tell him right off so I sent him mesanet to look around and get back with me if he wants to go down this road.
[16:10:41] <witnit> massachusetts area
[16:20:22] <Sync> linux based arduino controls?
[16:21:24] <yasnak> uh
[16:21:27] <Lowridah> heh
[16:21:43] <Lowridah> reminds me of my windows based ti84 controls
[16:21:48] <yasnak> not to mention if this guy goes legit, pretty sure hes going to need to talk to some lawyers about it
[16:22:34] <Lowridah> nothing requiring a lawyer there really
[16:22:56] <Lowridah> but arduino is kinda.. agnostic of whatever OS is sending it serial
[16:22:58] <yasnak> what are they all licensed as?
[16:23:05] <Lowridah> open source?
[16:23:16] <Lowridah> linux is open source, arduino is as well
[16:23:40] <Lowridah> or do you mean which OSS license?
[16:24:21] <yasnak> So hes paying programmers to program a machine using open source software right?
[16:24:47] <yasnak> Pretty sure thats a bad idea as you're not allowed to restrict software thats copying open sourced software
[16:25:02] <yasnak> aka he would have to release it also open source
[16:25:25] <neckro23> only if it's GPL
[16:26:07] <yasnak> https://opensource.org/faq#commercial
[16:31:41] <Deejay> gn8
[16:50:22] <malcom2073> yasnak: You can pay someone to write code that violates GPL, you're just not allowed to distribute it
[16:50:43] <malcom2073> Work-for-hire delivery doesn't actually count as distribution
[16:51:03] <yasnak> right
[16:51:10] <yasnak> but thats a bad business plan?
[16:51:22] <yasnak> i mean its good if you want to lose money
[16:51:27] <malcom2073> Depends what your intention is. If he never plans on distributing it, just using it in-house, not a problem
[16:53:11] <yasnak> lol
[16:53:13] <yasnak> yaya
[16:53:53] <malcom2073> I have a few in-house tools that I can never distribute, since doing so would violate gpl heh
[16:54:07] <malcom2073> ohhh, he's selling the machines
[16:55:17] <malcom2073> Yeah that can be tricky. I tend to avoid GPL in anything involving money anyway heh
[16:56:16] <yasnak> yep ;)
[17:00:13] <Lowridah> we just plain can't use GPLv3 where i work
[17:00:20] <Lowridah> and i work for one of the largest consumers of OSS in the world
[17:06:12] <malcom2073> yeah v3 is pretty...... yeah
[17:11:29] <Erant> Try Affero GPL, that's concentrated evil lawyer juice.
[17:12:26] <malcom2073> heh
[18:27:27] <Cromaglious_> hmm
[18:29:12] <[cube]> anyone here know how to tell if bearings are good quality or cheap knock offs
[18:29:28] <[cube]> just got some 'abec-9' titanium bearings
[18:29:50] <[cube]> but i can't really tell if they actually good or just cheap crap bearings with abec-9 printed on them
[18:30:35] <Sync> probably the latter
[18:30:55] <Meduza> how much did you pay for them?
[18:31:44] <[cube]> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/221346797816
[18:51:20] <CaptHindsight> if you can't tell the difference then why do you need them?
[18:52:10] <yasnak> Eh, who was the guy who went to school for metallurgy? I have a question about stainless steel and chrome
[18:52:14] <CaptHindsight> check them with runoutamometer
[18:52:16] <_methods> isn't abec9 the lowest quality anyways?
[18:52:24] <_methods> i never remember
[18:52:34] <_methods> abec3 is good i think lol
[18:53:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/14648-abec-5-vs-abec-7-vs-abec.html
[18:53:31] <Duc> anyone have experience in yaskawa drive units. Can I use a larger servopack then the motor needs or can I use a small servo pack but will get less power from motor?
[18:55:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/faq-of-diy-cnc-machine-building/39816-abec.html
[18:55:08] <Duc> The rotary table I purchased was suppose to have a old DC brushed servo but I think it got fully rebuilt not to long ago since a AC servo is in the unit and it looks perstine
[18:55:38] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale
[18:55:55] <_methods> wtf i don't know how to read
[18:55:57] <[cube]> thanks CaptHindsight
[18:56:08] <CaptHindsight> ABEC 9: 0.0012 mm (0.000047") maximum eccentricity allowable
[18:56:16] <[cube]> I guess i'm not really concerened with ABEC tolerances
[18:56:20] <[cube]> for my applicaiton
[18:56:26] <[cube]> (wood cnc router)
[18:56:40] <[cube]> just doing an overhaul on all the bearings and wanted a good choice
[18:56:49] <[cube]> i learned something new though
[18:56:59] <CaptHindsight> r dees berings for a spindle or a ballscrew?
[18:56:59] <[cube]> RS versus ZZ bearings
[18:57:05] <[cube]> RS = rubber seal
[18:57:08] <[cube]> ZZ = metal seal
[18:57:30] <[cube]> apparently RS is better in my case because it'll help keep particulate/sawdust out
[18:57:33] <CaptHindsight> bear rings vs bare rings
[18:57:39] <[cube]> and metal seal are better for high speed applications
[18:57:41] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/wHYEmeb - more on seals
[18:59:24] <[cube]> seems like ABEC rating is negligible in terms of a wood router
[18:59:30] <[cube]> relatively slow speeds
[19:00:02] <CaptHindsight> unless you have one of those 1 billion to one gear sets
[19:00:48] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_pbOCIg_nI
[19:01:38] <CaptHindsight> so if the input can handle 1 ft/lb.... how long until the output shatters?
[19:01:38] <[cube]> hah
[19:01:39] <[cube]> crazy
[19:10:23] <malcom2073> That guy is stupid, but tbh, if he's making money, then he's smart
[19:11:05] <malcom2073> He's turned pretty normal boring gearboxes, into something that kitchy trendy people wanna buy
[19:15:22] <CaptHindsight> yes, I wish he'd make some that would explode upon being turned
[19:17:50] <CaptHindsight> 100K:1 should be plenty
[19:22:38] <CaptHindsight> _methods:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/31176/how-one-dad-got-lawn-darts-banned you might enjoy the comments section
[19:24:55] <_methods> bastard ruined teh greatest game in america
[19:26:27] <CaptHindsight> it's a good thing that little girls no longer die from accidents now
[19:26:47] <Lowridah> nah, he just brought it back to the 'slow hand crafted domestic' lawndarts market
[19:28:16] <_methods> just because your daughter has a paper thin cranium doesn't mean you should ruin the fun for the rest of america
[19:30:09] <_methods> and now that kids have to wear helmets everywhere they go it should be no big deal having metal darts flyin all over the place
[19:30:43] <CaptHindsight> now if we can only ban cars, sports, viruses, harmful bacteria, lack of exercise, diets high in saturated fats, poisons, high places and bathrooms
[19:31:27] <_methods> don't forget random meteorite strikes
[19:32:32] <Duc> pcw_home: Maybe you have the answer to a servo question. Question?
[19:32:32] <Duc> Can a SDGV-120 servopack be used to drive a SGMG-09A or can a undersized SDGV-05RA servopack be used if full power of the drive is not needed.
[19:32:32] <Duc> Limited to single phase 200V power for setup.
[19:32:53] <CaptHindsight> or just pick one like falling, it's the number cause of accidental injury in the USA
[19:33:04] <CaptHindsight> number 1 cause
[19:35:57] <CaptHindsight> WOW
http://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2013-a.gif
[19:37:27] <_methods> lawn darts is still the #1 cause of death?
[19:39:09] <CaptHindsight> looks like if you make it passed 65 you don't tend to commit suicide
[19:40:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_injury_deaths_highlighting_unintentional_injury_2013-a.gif
[19:40:46] <CaptHindsight> the chart doesn't include intentional deaths by lawn darts :(
[19:40:55] <CaptHindsight> only accidental
[19:44:41] <CaptHindsight> we used to combine lawn darts with a form of dodge ball
[19:45:03] <CaptHindsight> the darts had to be thrown in an arc
[19:46:25] <yasnak> metal tips?
[19:47:30] <CaptHindsight> yasnak: I think they were steel
[19:48:02] <yasnak> sounds like the best type possible
[19:48:32] <yasnak> in all honestly i took one to the foot, went right through. pulled it out, no blood.
[19:48:50] <CaptHindsight> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Lawndarts.jpg/295px-Lawndarts.jpg
[19:51:15] <CaptHindsight> are all the nuts for ER22 collets the same thread?
[19:51:29] <_methods> they should be
[19:51:30] <CaptHindsight> sorry ER16
[19:52:27] <gregcnc> you have mini and regular nuts for all ER up to 25
[19:52:28] <CaptHindsight> " If the collet nut conforms to the DIN6499 standard then the ER16 should be M22x1.5"
[19:53:06] <gregcnc> Mini is M19x1
[19:57:26] <gregcnc> though i have two collet holders which are neither
[19:58:38] <CaptHindsight> making a fixture to hold 8" wafers that spin at up to 24K rpm
[19:59:25] <gregcnc> arbor with ER16 taper?
[19:59:54] <CaptHindsight> M22 x 1.5 is the thread on the motor shaft
[20:00:37] <gregcnc> using the thread to mount the wafer?
[20:00:45] <CaptHindsight> going to thread the fixture onto the motor shaft
[20:01:03] <gregcnc> how is the runout?
[20:01:06] <CaptHindsight> the wafer just sits in the chuck/fixture
[20:03:11] <gregcnc> balance at 24krpm can be demanding
[20:03:53] <CaptHindsight> not much mass
[20:07:21] <Sync> why would you spin them at 24krpm? regular spin coaters don't need much speed
[20:07:26] <CaptHindsight> the wafer is only .275mm thick
[20:07:49] <CaptHindsight> Sync: depends on the viscosity of the coating
[20:09:00] <Sync> very much so, but all regular candidates are low viscosity enough to work well with maybe 5000 rpm
[20:09:13] <Sync> and you'd still need to balance the chuck
[20:09:24] <CaptHindsight> not the usual coatings
[20:10:27] <CaptHindsight> yes, they tend to start to shake and vibrate quite a bit when unbalanced
[20:12:05] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how dry clothing would be spun at 5K rpm?
[20:12:46] <gregcnc> I wonder if it would make cotton noodles?
[20:13:15] <Frank__7> anyone experienced hand pain after too much spray painting? couldnt find anything on the web
[20:13:46] <gregcnc> the street "artists" practice daily to avoid that
[20:14:26] <CaptHindsight> modern washers spin at 1-1.4k rpm
[20:15:03] <Frank__7> i do it for work, but my thumb started to feel sore
[20:15:04] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of the old joke about eye pain whenever drinking coffee
[20:15:07] <Frank__7> i dont know why
[20:15:13] <gregcnc> I had one that gave a balance error with one shirt it it, but attempted to knock the walls down with a full load.
[20:16:14] <Sync> Frank__7: probably just bad ergonomics
[20:16:24] <Frank__7> yeah i think so too,
[20:16:40] <Frank__7> mostly because i couldnt find anything on google
[20:16:44] <Frank__7> thats wired
[20:16:45] <Frank__7> haha
[20:16:49] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: did you add a second bearing to the top of the washer to solve the problem?
[20:17:01] <gregcnc> is old it
[20:17:03] <gregcnc> sold
[20:17:19] <gregcnc> mold and all
[20:17:48] <CaptHindsight> cuties included no extra charge
[20:17:59] <Sync> Frank__7: you should get another gun that suits you better
[20:18:01] <gregcnc> it was a front loader maytag
[20:18:08] <CaptHindsight> cooties
[20:38:37] <yasnak> hand pain no, trigger finger yes. happened to my thumb. had it fixed a year or two ago
[20:47:46] <Frank__7> Sync: yeah, i think its that
[20:47:54] <Frank__7> Sync: sorry the delay
