#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-02-17

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[00:20:17] <yasnak> 12:55AM. Probably should start thinking about heading home for the day...heh
[00:41:03] <jfindley> damn, where does the time go?
[01:11:18] <Simonious> Does anyone use HSMWorks?
[01:11:25] <Simonious> so spendy!
[01:15:23] <yasnak> yes
[01:15:26] <yasnak> nice paths
[01:15:39] <Simonious> cool - I'm reading up on it
[01:15:46] <Simonious> tough sell though, lots of $$
[01:16:07] <Simonious> I guess 2.5 will do a lot, but.. I do need 3D too.
[01:16:18] <yasnak> hey, depends on what you're losing by not having it or running machines with pathetically slow cycle times that cost $5,000.00 a month to break even
[01:16:21] <Simonious> and.. cambam/fusion 3D aren't awesome to use in my experience.
[01:16:42] <Simonious> yasnak: I hear you, but I work in a prototype shop, not a production shop.
[01:16:54] <yasnak> I shall BRB, need to reboot. One second.
[01:35:30] <yasnak> Ahhhh, if only wind0ze apps didn't have such bad memory management :/
[01:42:29] <tiwake> it only linux had half the development power microsoft puts into windows
[01:42:31] <archivist> that memory managements is worse than you can imagine
[01:43:34] <archivist> some apps take all available free memory on start up, because its there
[01:44:17] <archivist> then left to the memory paging process to try to keep it running
[01:46:00] <tiwake> windows thread scheduling kind of sucks a lot too
[02:09:29] <yasnak> Someday
[02:10:46] <yasnak> First shift comes in three hours. Probably should call it a night, I need to be back in fiveish hours haha.
[02:12:47] <archivist> you start talking rubbish half in a dream world after an amount of sleep loss
[02:13:56] <tiwake> >experienced this in math class
[02:15:18] <archivist> I was doing day job, driving 70 miles working till 1am drive home, deliver goods am, drive to day job
[02:15:43] <tiwake> that sounds kind of horrible
[02:19:16] <archivist> was a bit hectic
[02:19:44] <yasnak> Yeah
[02:20:01] <archivist> at least it paid for a holiday :)
[02:20:12] <yasnak> You get past the epic anger and burnout straight to zombie. You then don't feel tired, but you're desperately tired. Its fun ;)
[02:27:05] <Deejay> moin
[02:47:56] <witnit> Mojn!
[02:54:12] <witnit> CaptHindsight: jdh: I crashed coursed myself in plc programming tonight, and got my flashing dout-00 to go at said intervals also tripping a counter which after 8 counts it unlatches the flasher and waits for input from gcode :)
[03:01:14] <jfindley> witnit: That sounds like fun
[03:11:40] <witnit> oh man I was soo lost so many times
[03:12:05] <jfindley> how lost are you now?
[03:12:31] <witnit> oh I think I got it now, a new plateau
[03:12:44] <witnit> Like leveling up but emc
[03:12:49] <jfindley> what plc were you working with?
[03:12:58] <witnit> classic ladder
[03:13:04] <witnit> for emc
[03:13:18] <pink_vampire> someone know what is the cost of the mlcube?
[03:15:45] <pink_vampire> https://www.datron.de/datron-cnc-machines/cnc-milling-machine-overview/mlcube.html
[03:16:00] <jfindley> witnit: I hadn't heard of that. Seems pretty awesome.
[03:16:26] <witnit> oh its wondrous
[03:16:38] <witnit> I should have learned it so long ago
[03:17:09] <witnit> I do this lazy thing where I just get what I need working and then put off learning very important things cause... lazy
[03:17:46] <witnit> pink_vampire: no clue I never seen one sold :P
[03:18:01] <jfindley> pink, I'm guessing 18-27k or so
[03:18:05] <pink_vampire> it's new.
[03:18:12] <pink_vampire> just 27!
[03:18:15] <pink_vampire> what!
[03:19:06] <jfindley> unless I missed something, it's probably around there.
[03:21:43] <pink_vampire> 60K spindle... 1,520 mm x 1.150 mm x 245 mm; with 1.020 mm tool changer in Y
[03:21:47] <pink_vampire> 27K...
[03:21:58] <pink_vampire> granit base..
[03:22:14] <pink_vampire> Feed up to 22 m/min Position feed up to 22 m/min Weight approx. 2,500 kg
[03:22:18] <jfindley> Do you know how much it actually costs?
[03:22:27] <pink_vampire> no
[03:23:24] <jfindley> Ok, I'll sell one to you for 737k
[03:24:30] <pink_vampire> the G0704 it's very limited..
[03:45:17] <witnit> Anyone really familiar with 80/20?
[03:49:39] <witnit> I guess a better question is does anyone know of a really good small sealed, possibly washdown type enclosures for a PC
[03:52:56] <archivist> choose a standard http://www.dsmt.com/resources/ip-rating-chart/
[03:54:07] <witnit> ip36
[03:56:41] <archivist> sure you dont want 66
[03:56:45] <witnit> no
[03:56:59] <witnit> Its going to be inside another enclosure
[03:57:28] <witnit> but I want it to be modular and cleanable and something I can add some kind of standoff to help dampen vibration
[03:57:36] <witnit> no im not sure *
[03:57:38] <witnit> :)
[03:57:59] <archivist> 36 is 3.5 mm holes
[03:58:04] <archivist> 2.5
[03:58:28] <archivist> the second table is not well written
[03:58:40] <witnit> I just need some examples :)
[03:59:05] <witnit> that would make most sense, like where are you normally going to see such types and in what enviroments
[03:59:53] <archivist> a search for ip66 pc case gives those plastic boxes with a rubber seal
[04:00:15] <archivist> http://www.rapidonline.com/mechanical-fastenings-fixings/hammond-1554v2gysl-watertight-pc-enclosure-smoked-lid-240-x-160-x-90-grey-30-4635/?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&&gclid=clej97e__socfq0sgwodklsgbg
[04:00:32] <witnit> sounds close, I think maybe that with but aluminum
[04:01:14] <witnit> the idea would be to add some plug and try to smash all the mesa cards I need into the smallest area possible
[04:01:47] <archivist> rose enclosures over here makes them
[04:01:49] <witnit> so im thinking stackable flats with direct jumper system from one card to the next
[04:02:36] <witnit> getting very warm now :D
[04:24:07] <witnit> archivist you know of any systems that run emc reasonably close to this size? http://www.habeyusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/EMB-2500_2-1024x683.jpg
[04:25:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3033802/3d-printing/mattel-remakes-60s-thingmaker-toy-as-an-easy-to-use-300-3d-printer.html
[04:25:17] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[04:25:25] <witnit> Im wanting to do some headless builds and remotely program them without an X interface things should be nice
[04:26:03] <witnit> burning fingers
[04:26:30] <SpeedEvil> 'When printing is completed, the heated print head retracts into a recess that hands can't reach. Automated Door Lock: The printer door automatically locks when printing begins, making it impossible to reach inside while the heated printer head is in motion. Integrated Filament System: Internal storage and protected feeding system keeps filament out of harm's way.
[04:26:41] <witnit> beautiful
[04:26:56] <witnit> expect cats to go in them
[04:26:57] <witnit> hahahah
[04:27:31] * SpeedEvil has just ordered a 1d unprinter.
[04:27:31] <Hawku> warm bed + box shape = cat magnet?
[04:27:40] <SpeedEvil> (bandsaw)
[04:28:49] <witnit> next thing you know 7 year olds will be emailing eachother plans for making their own slingshots and airsoft guns
[04:28:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[04:29:03] <witnit> gonna be a beautiful future
[04:29:34] <witnit> minecraft +thingyprinter is the next big thing
[04:29:43] <witnit> watch
[04:29:58] <SpeedEvil> I want a printer that can do lava
[04:30:11] <witnit> ohh griefers
[04:30:53] <witnit> How hard would it be to convert minecraft into gcode?
[04:31:24] <Hawku> http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Programs_and_editors/3D_exporters
[04:31:33] <witnit> oh jeesh you guys have everything
[04:32:22] <witnit> welp I guess I can learn 3d cad after all
[04:32:29] <witnit> pew pew
[04:32:50] <witnit> I write my ladder logic in redstone fear my hacks
[04:34:04] <witnit> Hawku I should export the redstone in minecraft to signals in HAL :)
[04:34:21] <witnit> would be too funny
[04:35:13] <Hawku> that might work!
[04:36:28] <witnit> Oh how silly is this, I should make a hug logic game that teaches a person PLC programming, then put in all these levels and whatnot so they can build up to learning very complicated circuits, THEN I should interface it DIRECTLY to an industrial PLC language... my friends I shall let the worlds smart phone tappers write my ladder logic for me
[04:36:34] <witnit> huge*
[04:36:55] <witnit> best idea this yeare
[04:37:12] <SpeedEvil> Hug logic is best logic.
[04:37:29] <witnit> all I have to do is give the people a list of requirements for the inputs and outputs and let them do the rest :)
[04:41:57] <__rob> are parallels usually precision in only 1 direction ?
[04:44:25] <__rob> https://goo.gl/photos/88r1TgJyGbRS9YTM6
[04:44:37] <__rob> trying to sort out my cutter comp
[04:44:43] <__rob> but want to know where I stand with measurement first
[04:45:04] <__rob> so either the calipers are wrong or the parallel
[04:45:13] <__rob> its meant to be +/- 0.005mm
[04:45:28] <__rob> presumably that will be in the 19 direction
[04:46:03] <archivist> are you expecting too much from your calipers
[04:46:40] <archivist> I cant see google pictures
[04:47:03] <__rob> what error do you get ?
[04:47:06] <__rob> will paste elsewhere
[04:47:10] <__rob> http://snag.gy/HzD1I.jpg
[04:47:12] <archivist> a white screen
[04:47:30] <__rob> they are premium calipers
[04:47:33] <__rob> Mitotoyo ones
[04:48:25] <archivist> 01 is within their tolerance
[04:48:30] <__rob> yea, just checked
[04:48:31] <__rob> it is
[04:48:41] <witnit> do you have an indicator?
[04:48:45] <__rob> so when setting up cutter comp, I should really get a precision micrometer?
[04:48:53] <__rob> yea, I have a couple
[04:48:56] <witnit> use that
[04:49:55] <__rob> how, for measureing a part ?
[04:50:11] <archivist> generally mitutoyo are good but human makes a huge difference to each measurement (dirt)
[04:51:08] <__rob> ok, yea, well it is within tolerance, confused how to setup with a dial indicator to measure a part though
[04:51:16] <archivist> you should see the variation in my 1" standards :)
[04:51:19] <__rob> I can measure the height off this parallel for sure
[04:51:34] <__rob> but I want to mill 2" squares, and see how off I am
[04:51:38] <__rob> then enter the cutter comp
[04:51:44] <witnit> try this, place material on mill bed and clamp, place indicator left of material 3.100 inches and clamp(indicator point aiming at material) take a small cut THEN place 1-2-3 block between gap between material and indicator and compare
[04:52:10] <__rob> ahh
[04:52:13] <__rob> nice
[04:52:13] <witnit> ;)
[04:52:33] <__rob> decent micrometer is prob worth investing in tho
[04:52:41] <witnit> YES
[04:52:43] <__rob> to get better then 0.01
[04:59:12] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-25mm-0-001mm-Electronic-Digital-Micrometer-BY-/252246373215?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
[04:59:20] <__rob> they gonna be total crap for that money ?
[04:59:39] <__rob> mitutoyo version is 10 times the price
[05:02:08] <archivist> I have old mechanical micrometers for accuracy
[05:05:32] <archivist> __rob, where are you...using uk ebay :)
[05:07:30] <__rob> London
[05:07:39] <__rob> West London
[05:07:57] <archivist> 120 miles south, Burton
[05:10:41] <XXCoder> I love my mitoyo micrometer
[05:11:00] <__rob> ahh yea, just north of birmingham
[05:11:05] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-4PC-METRIC-MICROMETER-SET-0-100MM-HIGH-QUALITY-MEASURING-MYFORD-/291628934009
[05:11:21] <__rob> thats the best set for graduation I can find
[05:11:24] <__rob> for the money
[05:11:31] <XXCoder> thats not bad.
[05:11:59] <__rob> think it was starlett or something was £600
[05:12:02] <__rob> for a similar set
[05:13:34] <__rob> right, I'll get them
[05:13:47] <__rob> cant really afford to kit myself out with a Mitutoyo set at the moment
[05:14:11] <__rob> the missus will have a fit if I spent £1000 on micrometers
[05:19:59] <__rob> the most precision thing I have are my parallels
[05:20:05] <XXCoder> ok
[05:20:28] <__rob> getting 0.01 error on those mitutoyo which is within their spec
[05:20:52] <__rob> might try and ebay a bit of perfect metal
[05:21:06] <__rob> gotta be something on there for a near perfect baseline
[05:21:25] <archivist> I have 4 1" standards a ball, a glass micrometer standard, a micrometer ring, and a gauge block (worn) all over the place, no idea which is right
[05:21:37] <__rob> hah
[05:21:38] <XXCoder> I guess thats uber precise archivist
[05:22:19] <archivist> does not help that Ii cannot afford to keep the temperature right
[05:23:03] <XXCoder> yeah at work inspection is in its own room, and conditioned
[05:23:26] <XXCoder> you could stabilize though using large bodies of water
[05:23:36] <XXCoder> bunch of barrels full of warer
[05:23:44] <XXCoder> it will average out temperate
[05:23:45] <archivist> not putting my stuff near water
[05:23:51] <XXCoder> its all sealed
[05:24:08] <XXCoder> though yeah it takes much room
[05:24:24] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-0-6-Precision-outside-micrometer-set-0-001-carbide-standards-6pcs-set-/311394362499?hash=item48808ce483:g:61QAAOSweW5VPdRO
[05:24:25] <XXCoder> HMM
[05:24:33] <archivist> that bench mic came minus some ball bearings and was £20 collect only
[05:25:26] <archivist> actually look at last 4 items http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bench+micrometer
[05:26:11] <XXCoder> archivist: theres other way... large concerte blocks lol
[05:26:22] <XXCoder> it takes a lot of heat to heat concerete
[05:26:35] <archivist> concrete is impossible to heat up!
[05:26:40] <XXCoder> again, takes LOT of room lol
[05:27:08] <archivist> about 8 C indoors today
[05:28:10] <XXCoder> 18c here apparently
[05:28:44] <archivist> __rob, by the way old Moore & Wright goes rusty if you are not careful
[05:32:01] <beikeland> anyone know what Kress is refering to when they write "Full wave electronics for consistent power and speed" for their spindle?
[05:32:38] <beikeland> (for a universal ac type motor)
[05:33:29] <archivist> some motor speed controls were half wave (thyristor)
[05:33:52] <archivist> theirs is probably a triac based one
[05:36:23] <beikeland> ah, marketing bullshit then as triac is most common?
[05:38:00] <archivist> yes triac as more common these days
[05:38:00] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it was a major selling point in 1980
[05:38:18] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/q7Nc1Y1 - essential additions for the modern production line.
[06:00:18] <beikeland> SpeedEvil: lol! not sure if the eyes or the reverse sorting was funniest though :D
[06:00:58] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ39xzNQBzk
[06:01:05] <_methods> backhoe getaway car lol
[06:16:31] <XXCoder> lots of splits.
[06:16:31] <XXCoder> so, where is my banana for split? heh
[06:52:29] <beikeland> thinking about speed control. spindle has 10-30k manual speed control. Is there any point in having more than one pulse pr revolution for feedback when that is effectively almost at least twice the control inputs. 50hz = 6000 half cycles/minute right?
[07:53:50] <Jymmm> Plastic enclosures, OBD2, DIN, IP67, rack mount, (pendant?) http://www.pactecenclosures.com/
[08:15:43] <witnit> Jymmm: thanks looks like a good resource, I am needing to attach a heavy duty enclosure to this type of head, then inside that I wanted a rack mountable slide in plug system for mesa cards.
[08:15:54] <witnit> http://www.govro.com/images/model300_ill.gif
[08:28:57] <CaptHindsight> witnit: I make most of my own enclosures now. Unless it's for a PC/server.
[08:29:11] <witnit> I dont have cnc mill :/
[08:29:21] <miss0r> I have a quick question for you guys. And this is just for future refrence - as I already fucked up :) Yesterday I ran a series of workpeices in the CNC, which I wanted to continue on today. I placed the mill in 0,0,0 (x,y,z - not that it matters). Today when I booted up, I started homing the machine in the given position. then I did a touchoff, still standing at 0,0,0. I then went on to
[08:29:21] <miss0r> unhoming the machine, to move it clear of the workarea, and then home it there. This ofcourse cleared all positioning, naming the new coordinates 0,0,0 again. What is the correct procedure in doing so? reusing the mills position?
[08:30:12] <witnit> If i design it up, would you want to make a couple prototypes?
[08:32:20] <CaptHindsight> witnit: you might find someone affordable here to do that for you
[08:32:29] <miss0r> witnit: what prototypes are we talking ? :)
[08:32:48] <witnit> we have a taker!
[08:33:03] <witnit> Just enclosure for mesa cards
[08:33:17] <miss0r> picture of an example?
[08:34:17] <miss0r> so I know what we are talking about/your expectations
[08:35:03] <witnit> let me see if I can find something
[08:36:40] <_methods> missor you need to use g54,g55,g56 etc for diff workpiece coordinate systems
[08:37:14] <_methods> so you set your machine home and leave it that way
[08:37:17] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MillSetup
[08:37:18] <miss0r> _methods: but it won't allow that before I have set machine home?
[08:37:39] <_methods> i guess i don't understand what you are saying then
[08:38:09] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: then home it first
[08:38:10] <miss0r> alright. machine home is some 'unknown coordinate' in this case. But I do know where I left the mill acording to the workpeice.
[08:39:07] <miss0r> I want something that allows me to zero the coordinates, and them move off the workpeice to give it a machine home position
[08:39:31] <_methods> yeah i don't know how you would do that if you set it as machine home
[08:39:48] <_methods> i guess you could set it home then unhome and record the distance you move
[08:40:04] <miss0r> yeah - no no easy fix :)
[08:40:11] <_methods> then move to the "machine home" and then move back that amount and set that as work
[08:40:13] <miss0r> so no easy fix*
[08:40:36] <_methods> nothing besides recording the dist between the 2 positions
[08:40:38] <_methods> that i know of
[08:40:51] <miss0r> anyway, with the backlash compensation on this mill, it is probally best to rehome it after reboot anyway
[08:41:17] <_methods> that would probably be safest
[08:41:37] <_methods> i always try to make sure i have a feature to re-zero on if something happens
[08:41:40] <miss0r> indeed. allthou more time comsuming :) I have 56 workpeices to complete today
[08:41:51] <_methods> that way if i lose machine home somehow i can recover
[08:42:01] <miss0r> smart :)
[08:42:18] <_methods> you never know when power may go out or whatever
[08:42:23] <_methods> especially with hobby cnc
[08:42:31] <witnit> like this but aluminum
[08:42:33] <witnit> http://www.globalspec.com/npapics/98/151699_050420122886_ExhibitPic.jpg
[08:42:54] <witnit> sealed and compact
[08:43:32] <witnit> less curves too, something square on all sides so I can slide it into a rack and it plugs in
[08:45:57] <CaptHindsight> 7 pieces milled
[08:46:23] <miss0r> CaptHindsight: What are you working on?
[08:46:26] <witnit> extrubed aluminum with caps for each end would work too
[08:46:43] <CaptHindsight> if you can find matching extrusion
[08:47:07] <miss0r> I send you a private message, witnit
[08:47:16] <witnit> I was curious about 80/20 having a functional standard or if I should just buy ewctangle tubing
[08:47:52] <CaptHindsight> witnit: standard what?
[08:49:38] <witnit> like a common extruded shape
[08:50:04] <witnit> something I can use now and know I will still have as an option to connect to other similar structural items in the future
[08:50:30] <witnit> the less holes a guy has to drill in a part the better
[08:51:13] <CaptHindsight> you're making a few enclosures not 476,543
[08:51:37] <archivist> premature optimisation
[08:53:02] <witnit> thats not really the point though, I would like to finally settle on a standard, im quite displeased with having 10 different frankenstein boxes, ntm after all the extra wire and din rail and so forth its more trouble than picking a standard route
[08:53:26] <witnit> they make 50 pin headers for a reason
[08:54:00] <witnit> I would just assume handle the pins with software, not little green wire terminal screw downs
[08:55:01] <archivist> you still have to get the wire from remote to the green connector :)
[08:55:24] <witnit> not a big deal when you have premade 50 pin ribbon cable
[08:55:36] <witnit> and ditch the little green connectors
[08:56:11] <CaptHindsight> LPT cables
[08:57:03] <CaptHindsight> the IO that connects to electrical devices on the machine are infinitely variable
[08:57:18] <witnit> yeah but mesa cards use 50 pin headers
[08:57:28] <witnit> well, the ones I picj
[08:57:30] <witnit> pick*
[08:58:07] <archivist> unwise use of ribbon can give you noise problems
[08:58:50] <witnit> yeah but the idea is to just jump straight across with a header extension block
[08:59:05] <CaptHindsight> and good luck finding anyone to agree with your choice of how to handle your new standard
[08:59:17] <witnit> ?
[08:59:37] <archivist> there can be no one right answer to fit all
[09:00:15] <_methods> 42
[09:00:18] <witnit> why is using 50 pin headers that connect directly to 50 pin headers with 50 pin ribbon cable new standard?
[09:02:18] <CaptHindsight> witnit: are these the connection from the FPGA to IO boards or from IO boards to the machine?
[09:02:46] <witnit> fpga to optos and daughter
[09:03:51] <CaptHindsight> witnit: you want to run ribbon cable between the FPGA card in one enclosure to the IO daughter cards in a different enclosure?
[09:04:41] <witnit> look at card 7i90+7i33 and look at this http://www.smtnet.com/media/images/IMG_0243.JPG
[09:04:58] <witnit> nope all same box
[09:05:50] <CaptHindsight> what does this have to do with the picture of the enclosure example you first posted?
[09:05:54] <witnit> but you would be able to add a second opto card or add a second 7i33 or replace with 7i48 plug and go
[09:06:30] <witnit> I want the entirety in a hoffman enclosure with a rack mounted inside which I can plug the cards into.
[09:06:31] <CaptHindsight> this pic http://www.globalspec.com/npapics/98/151699_050420122886_ExhibitPic.jpg
[09:06:56] <witnit> the card would go into that ribbon cable to the end and plug into backpane
[09:07:16] <witnit> but i want it sealed
[09:08:54] <witnit> think about a rackmount server
[09:08:57] <witnit> but mesa cards
[09:09:10] <witnit> now put it inside a hoffman box
[09:10:21] <CaptHindsight> witnit: I'm sure you have an idea in your mind about how this looks, and I follow you to a point but unless you can clearly convey the info or provide drawings i see about another 300 lines of IRC to really be on the same page
[09:10:32] <CaptHindsight> that is what a product spec is for
[09:10:55] <witnit> Its hard to explain what you want when you dont know what the name of what you want is called though
[09:13:05] <_methods> i think what you want is called a fanuc lol
[09:13:30] <witnit> they use alot of 50 pin cables?
[09:13:40] <_methods> nah i think it all just plugs into backplanes
[09:13:46] <witnit> sounds glorious
[09:16:00] <witnit> I guess im not explaining it very well but methods is mentioning exactly what im talking about, alot of hardware these days is becoming modular. maybe modular plug in system what im after
[09:16:23] <witnit> instead of wiring each little wire, you just plug it in
[09:18:33] <archivist> that only works where you have a single design source
[09:18:44] <witnit> ?
[09:19:18] <archivist> each design source has their own different modular system
[09:19:41] <witnit> yeah but headers have been around a very long time, think of SCSI they use the same cables
[09:19:50] <archivist> make you stick to one supplier
[09:20:00] <witnit> its not exactly what someone would call a NEW standard
[09:20:06] <malcom2073> There are quite a few (possibly hundreds?) of different header standards
[09:20:19] <malcom2073> PC104 is a personal favorite of mine for explaining why standards usck :P
[09:20:20] <malcom2073> suck*
[09:20:52] <witnit> so are you guys suggesting I should not use a mesa card if it has a 50 pin header cable O.o
[09:21:19] <archivist> https://xkcd.com/927/
[09:21:34] <malcom2073> I think we're trying to understand what you're on about. If you want to make all your stuff use the same pinout, by all means that's a good idea
[09:21:47] <malcom2073> I use a fairly standard stepper connector for my stuff, so I can plug and play steppers most anyhwere
[09:22:06] <witnit> I just dont understand why anyone would want to make it more complicated than it is.
[09:22:58] <malcom2073> Because person A's way of making it less complicated isn't as good as my way of making it less complicated :-D
[09:23:07] <malcom2073> Thus: Many ways to make it less complicated
[09:24:18] <malcom2073> Your best bet, would be to make it less complicated in your own way, and be consistant among your own devices.
[09:24:57] <witnit> 7i90 uses header for the SPP cable header and three more header cables for the fpga, then the daughter card used header, and the opto22's i have use header cable, yet you really think its unreasonable to use header cables over using the little green connectors on the 7i33TA for example?
[09:25:27] <archivist> depends!
[09:25:30] <malcom2073> Depends on a lot of things. How often you're connecting/disconnecting things (header cables are terrible for insert reliability)
[09:26:13] <archivist> some are like 15 insertions
[09:26:25] <witnit> -_- 15?
[09:26:31] <witnit> serious
[09:26:34] <archivist> yes
[09:26:44] <malcom2073> Yeah some of the the chinese crimp pins are absolutly terrible
[09:26:52] <pcw_home> good header connector are OK for at least 50 (and our test jigs get ~200 or so)
[09:27:07] <witnit> sounds much more accurate to me
[09:27:31] <witnit> I have been unplugging and plugging in hdds for years, way more often than I do my mesa cards for what thats worth
[09:27:50] <malcom2073> Accuracy is relative, and anecdotal knowlege is no replacement for manufacturer spec sheets :P
[09:28:12] <pcw_home> Usually on our test jigs, the wires break first
[09:28:44] <witnit> sounds more likely anyhow if im plugging into a backpane the contacts are soldered, not crimped
[09:28:55] <pcw_home> Anecdotal with 10s or thousands of ops is more than just anecdotal
[09:30:06] <pcw_home> we've been doing loopback testing with flat cables for more than 30 years
[09:30:33] <witnit> I honestly feel like the header is one the absolute most common standards there is
[09:30:47] <witnit> I just dont see how its all that unusual or rare to want to use them
[09:31:23] <CaptHindsight> high durability connectors >500 cycles tend to have self cleaning/lubricating mechanisms
[09:31:55] <_methods> that's what she said
[09:32:12] <witnit> I remember getting old video cards and they had these standoff blocks to connect to another card you could addon, like a tv in card or something silly
[09:32:35] <witnit> a couple of those in a 90degree turn and im in business
[09:33:12] <archivist> 3M quote 50 cycles
[09:33:34] <pcw_home> Besides, why would you have more than 10-20 cycles even if you had some trouble?
[09:34:04] <witnit> its just for pulling out a card that took a shit and putting in a new one or upgrading a 4 axis system to a 6
[09:34:30] <witnit> its not like its some nintendo cartridge i want to swap on the daily
[09:34:44] <malcom2073> Some of us use the same hardware for multiple machines, so a lot of things get moved around, fairly often heh
[09:35:02] <witnit> well if you do such things maybe invest in some aphenols
[09:35:11] <witnit> far too costly for my needs
[09:35:27] <malcom2073> I use amphenol AT connectors actually heh
[09:36:06] <malcom2073> at $2-3 a pop, they're not terrible, but they're cable connectors not board connectors
[09:36:15] <witnit> there are some good bendix and other mil spec push turns that are nice too, obviously not for this situation tho
[10:16:17] <Frank__5> :D
[10:16:34] <witnit> howwwddyy frank
[10:17:34] <Frank__5> hellooo
[10:32:41] <Simonious> CAM seems to be in a dismal state in the world. :/
[10:34:05] <jesseg> CAM is massively complex :P
[10:34:16] <Simonious> heh, so it seems
[10:34:16] <jesseg> it shouldn't even work :P
[10:34:20] <Simonious> I just want.... <>
[10:34:37] <gregcnc> What's wrong with CAM?
[10:38:25] <Simonious> gregcnc: everyone is making it some are charging a fortune, others are giving it away, most of the interfaces seem poor. *shrugs* I'm speaking from a position of a novice though
[10:39:48] <gregcnc> CAM makes money therefor it has value.
[10:40:00] <_methods> kinda like yelling that shovels are horrible
[10:40:12] <_methods> but i've only used them one time
[10:40:12] <_methods> lol
[10:40:19] <Simonious> guilty
[10:40:37] <_methods> tell that to the guy with no shovel hahah
[10:40:40] <gregcnc> have you actually tried fusionyet?
[10:40:48] <Simonious> I spent a fair bit of time with cambam and with fusion 360
[10:40:56] <_methods> yeah fusion is pretty damn good for free
[10:41:06] <gregcnc> fusion is excellent for free
[10:41:10] <Simonious> thinking about trying HSMXpress
[10:41:59] <_methods> i've never used hsm before but i think it's pretty simple like fusion
[10:42:20] <gregcnc> HSMXpress is awesome if you only need 2.5D
[10:42:32] <Simonious> that'll get me by on some days
[10:43:20] <gregcnc> hsmworks, fusion, dlecam = autodesk
[10:43:26] <gregcnc> delcam
[10:43:39] <Simonious> gregcnc: is that good or bad?
[10:43:39] <_methods> i've been meaning to try powermill out
[10:44:27] <gregcnc> I don't know autodesk bought a lot of CAM in the last few years
[10:44:49] <_methods> yeah they're tryin to recover some market before solidworks takes it all up
[10:45:36] <archivist> after solidworks there is no going back to etcha sketch
[10:47:17] <_methods> it does make it difficult lol
[10:54:14] <gregcnc> Fusion CAM looks just like HSM Works products.
[10:54:34] <_methods> they're basically the same right?
[10:54:40] <_methods> just fusion is cut down
[10:54:44] <_methods> less options
[10:55:24] <gregcnc> I would think so. I'm looking at 2D Fusion and it's the same as HSMXpress.
[10:55:55] <_methods> i've never used hsm so i have no clue
[10:55:56] <gregcnc> I'm under the impression posts are virtually identical.
[10:55:58] <_methods> only used fusion
[10:55:59] <Simonious> my reading leads me to believe they have the same engine
[10:57:10] <witnit> look up the common errors in the forums and see if they show up on both programs
[10:57:21] <witnit> if so you can probably assume they are
[10:57:35] <_methods> i honestly don't care that much to find out lol
[10:57:43] <witnit> hahaha yeshbut you COULD
[11:03:18] <gregcnc> Hmm mecsoft updated their freemill. now it runs as a plug-in in SW
[11:04:12] <gregcnc> it's weak, but probably just as good as the VisualMill5 I bought from them years ago.
[11:08:31] <rene-dev> any profibus experts around?
[11:16:12] <gregcnc> freemill is terrible, don't even waste your time
[11:18:53] <t12> anyone ever make 6-40 or 6-32 flat bottom fitting ports?
[11:19:29] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dw49w55vgot46eu/File-1422455714%20%281%29.pdf?dl=0
[11:19:30] <t12> like that
[11:21:06] <witnit> no but if you decide you need about 10,000 of them i'd be happy to quote =D
[11:21:21] <t12> hah nope like 8 holes :(
[11:21:53] <witnit> heh, my machine has 5 spindles so I guess the job wouldnt quite be worth setting up :)
[11:27:01] <archivist> what is the average set up time for those beasts
[11:39:17] <_methods> yeah that's a lot of spindles
[11:44:11] <Simonious> t12: watcha doing with those?
[11:54:11] <t12> fluidics ports for a weird custom ce instrunent
[11:54:42] <t12> at least i dont have to do conical ports
[11:54:49] * Simonious ponders
[11:54:54] <Simonious> doing a research experiment?
[11:54:57] <t12> i assume theres custom tools for those
[11:55:06] <t12> helping someone else build theirnrig
[11:55:09] <t12> their rig
[11:55:25] <Simonious> Some kind of test rig to test flows?
[11:55:27] <t12> ce -> esi ms/ms
[11:56:05] <t12> mainly weird assembly to get multiple capillaries into tiny tiny sample vial
[11:56:39] <Simonious> Sounds like a university chemistry department toy
[11:56:48] <t12> yeah more or less
[11:58:41] <gregcnc> flat bottom drill or drill and follow up with a shop made D-reamer
[11:59:57] <_methods> grind a drill flat
[12:00:12] <_methods> or end mill
[12:00:28] <t12> i think im going to use a 7/64 and let it be slightly too big
[12:00:47] <t12> then just drill the center and tap the threads
[12:01:12] <_methods> at least it doesn't need an oring groove in the bottom
[12:01:31] <t12> the fitting has a weird ferrule that handles all that
[12:02:38] <t12> 4x of those in a chamfer on a chunknof peek
[12:02:55] <gregcnc> the larger port drawings have surface finish flatness specs and the small one doesn't
[12:04:48] <t12> these are low pressure fortunately
[12:04:56] <t12> so should be easy
[12:04:58] <t12> in peek
[12:06:14] <t12> for the 15kpsi stainless coned ones i thinknit gets hard :(
[12:10:27] <MrSunshine> heh, had an Athlon 64 laying around (And an Athlon 64 X2 cpu), changed cpu and put the harddrive in that computer insted ... biggest lagspike ive seen so far is 6500 and that has only happened one time =)
[12:10:37] <MrSunshine> else its steady at 3 - 4kns
[12:10:53] <MrSunshine> using irq affinity, without it its alot higher
[12:12:23] <Simonious> alright.. did a ton of reading on CAM.. looks like Fusion 360 is probably worth putting some more time into.
[12:13:38] <MrSunshine> yeah fusion360 is awesome =)
[12:13:55] <CaptHindsight> t12: did you ever sell off that DNA lab?
[12:13:56] <gregcnc> what kind of problems were you having with fusion before? I've been thinking about trying it but am not about to give up SW.
[12:16:01] <_methods> you can import your part into fusion
[12:16:18] <_methods> so you don't have to use it to draw
[12:16:29] <_methods> it's pretty terrible for assemblies
[12:16:49] <_methods> drawing individual parts is pretty much like inventor
[12:17:31] <maxcnc> hi all ;-)
[12:18:12] <t12> capt: yeah its all auctioned off
[12:18:31] <CaptHindsight> oh well
[12:18:53] <t12> got some work setting some of it up for buyers
[12:18:58] <t12> which is nice
[12:19:22] <CaptHindsight> t12: did any of the patents go with the machines?
[12:19:36] <t12> not sure
[12:19:46] <t12> i dunno if anyone bought them
[12:20:12] <t12> does that mean they become public if the co dissolves holding them?
[12:20:40] <maxcnc> Simonious: what is your main work the CAM will need to cope with
[12:20:41] <CaptHindsight> it's in the corporate charter I'm sure
[12:21:06] <t12> i assume theres someone who buys those up cheap
[12:21:14] <t12> or one of the lowball bidders gets it or smth
[12:22:47] <CaptHindsight> DesignerKids GenesandThings
[12:26:25] <Jymmm> witnit: cool
[12:40:46] <Jymmm> http://www.frys.com/product/8714801
[13:01:45] <maxcnc> archivist ?
[13:03:21] <maxcnc> Q Someone on Windows ? i uploaded the Garden and Painter Catalog to my new Webside and need to check if it is working on Windows also
[13:03:52] <maxcnc> hee is all Ubuntu stuff no windoof PC at all
[13:05:49] <maxcnc> Loetmichel: ? hast du gerade win am laufen ?
[13:15:05] <Roguish> send a link
[13:16:02] <maxcnc> http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/
[13:16:16] <maxcnc> please HIT SORTIMENT and then GARDEN
[13:16:35] <maxcnc> Thanks
[13:17:00] <CaptHindsight> are there any X86 tablets with Ethernet?
[13:23:37] <maxcnc> Roguish: ?
[13:23:53] <maxcnc> need to go home ;-)
[13:24:00] <maxcnc> long workdays here
[13:24:25] <Roguish> it come up ok. where's the English translation?
[13:24:37] <maxcnc> lost in Space
[13:24:43] <maxcnc> Thanks BYE Gn8
[13:25:09] <Roguish> ciao
[13:33:19] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Lost in space? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU
[13:33:45] <Jymmm> bah, he left =(
[13:55:01] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: that and "Resistance is Futile" come in pretty handy
[14:05:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: =)
[14:20:08] <MrSunshine> steady om < 4000ns jitter =)
[14:20:21] <Loetmichel> that MaxCNC has no patience ;)
[14:21:48] <Loetmichel> MrSunshine: b ought some used thinkcentres lately... couldnt get them below 480000ns :-(
[14:22:43] <MrSunshine> hehe i boight a D510mo before and have used that .. with latency spikes of > 20k , then with some tweaking i got that down to ~8k, but had an amd laying around and some cpus so i thought .. what the hell and swapped the hd and stuff and did latency test =)
[14:22:57] <MrSunshine> ALOT better, and have loads of pci parport cards laying around =)
[14:23:05] <Loetmichel> https://www.itsco.de/pc-lenovo-thinkcentre-a62-amd-athlon-64-x2-5000b-2x-2-6ghz-7062-20509.html <- NOT usable for LinuxCNC
[14:23:18] <MrSunshine> Loetmichel: tried irq tweaks ?
[14:23:40] <Loetmichel> no, not yet
[14:24:05] <MrSunshine> do that, this mobo im using now had spikes of about 30k without tweaks, isol cpus and vesa buffer
[14:24:10] <Loetmichel> i think its a powermanagement thing, it only happens after lidle for a few seconds
[14:24:30] <MrSunshine> Loetmichel: idle=noop or something ?
[14:24:35] <Loetmichel> but then it peaks up to 600k
[14:24:51] <Loetmichel> i dont have it here
[14:25:00] <Loetmichel> the 2 machines sit at the company
[14:25:14] <MrSunshine> try tweaking, use vesa etc =)
[14:25:18] <MrSunshine> set-irq-affinity thingie
[14:25:19] <Loetmichel> you can even HEAR it in the machine tho...
[14:25:28] <Loetmichel> liner runs sound "jerky"
[14:25:30] <Loetmichel> linear
[14:25:33] <MrSunshine> hehe =)
[14:27:12] <CaptHindsight> Gadzooks! Newegg doesn't even offer search term Ethernet when power searching for laptops or tablets
[14:27:31] <Loetmichel> MrSunshine: i dont need top jetk around wit them
[14:27:58] <Loetmichel> i bought them for "cheap" and under the impression that the company needs a few more "surfstations" anyway
[14:28:06] <MrSunshine> ah ok =)
[14:28:23] <Loetmichel> so i will use them as surfstations and buy some different boxes for linuxCNC
[14:28:37] <Loetmichel> would have been nice to get some cheap boxes for CNC tho
[14:28:53] <Loetmichel> have you followed the link?
[14:29:06] <Loetmichel> itsco is a germen refurbisher of leased systems
[14:29:09] <Loetmichel> reseller
[14:29:12] <Loetmichel> german
[14:29:36] <Loetmichel> they have very cheap systems and laptops
[14:29:41] <Loetmichel> so i tend to buy there a lot
[14:30:36] <MrSunshine> heh cool =)
[14:42:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7KW2TJ0426 $170 refurbed Dell with 17" monitor and LAN
[14:43:26] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how crappy they are
[14:44:03] <CaptHindsight> this + 7i92 might work
[14:44:27] <CaptHindsight> and they still have LPT ports!
[14:45:25] <Roguish> watch the processor speed.
[14:45:40] <Roguish> and you may be able to sell the winxp license.
[14:47:04] <Ralith> why would processor speed be a problem
[14:47:16] <Ralith> I can't imagine anything made in the last decade being too slow
[14:49:02] <Roguish> you can't be too fast, but it could be too slow, depends on the setup. if cpu is doing the stepping, then ???? if not, probably not an issue
[14:54:47] <CaptHindsight> searching the Lenovo site for "laptop ethernet" only comes up with accessories
[14:56:34] <t12> is there a modern easy supplier of tape transport rollers
[14:56:37] <t12> or something similar
[14:56:38] <CaptHindsight> for a new laptop it looks like you're up to $300 for something with wired LAN
[14:56:48] <t12> like cassette tape rubber on a shaft rollers
[14:57:45] <CaptHindsight> t12: what size?
[14:57:54] <t12> flexible
[14:58:02] <t12> i need to slide 50um wires around
[14:58:07] <t12> like a tiny tiny wire feeder
[14:58:51] <t12> essentially need to feed them down a tube slowly
[14:59:07] <t12> going for teflon block, a guide tube and a little transport roller
[14:59:29] <CaptHindsight> urethane + lathe = roller :)
[15:00:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.escoplastics.com/urethane-rollers.html
[15:00:32] <Roguish> CaptHindsight. I use a bare MB, mem stick, and ssd. total well $200 (no case included.)
[15:01:17] <t12> awesome exactly what i was looking for
[15:01:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kunzind.com/
[15:02:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.precisionurethane.com/polyurethane-rollers.html
[15:03:13] <CaptHindsight> Roguish: trying to find a laptop that I can cover with a plastic film
[15:03:35] <CaptHindsight> or a touchscreen PC
[15:03:37] <Roguish> ok, thats diierent. good luck
[15:04:08] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: use any that has a chiclet keyboard and passsive cooling ;)
[15:04:25] <CaptHindsight> with ethernet but they have all disappeared
[15:04:26] <witnit> any seen these? http://www.dsl-ltd.co.uk/product/archmi-715p
[15:06:04] <_methods> maybe an old toughbook?
[15:06:28] <_methods> touchscreen toughbook
[15:06:42] <CaptHindsight> _methods: plenty of old, I'm trying to find new
[15:06:45] <_methods> oh
[15:06:54] <_methods> then buy a new touchscreen toughbook lol
[15:07:05] <_methods> bust out the wallet
[15:08:02] <CaptHindsight> I don't need the toughbook version
[15:08:17] <CaptHindsight> just cheapo laptop with condom
[15:08:59] <_methods> lol
[15:09:02] <_methods> the laptop condom
[15:09:31] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: look into the dell semi rugged series
[15:09:43] <Loetmichel> way cheaper than panasonic
[15:09:49] <Loetmichel> and a lot better build
[15:10:06] <_methods> it's just condom sense that this should exist
[15:10:08] <_methods> hahahhaha
[15:10:59] <Loetmichel> dell latidue ATG series
[15:11:01] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: what do the prices start for the Dells?
[15:11:02] <Loetmichel> latitude
[15:11:09] <Loetmichel> look for yourself
[15:11:17] <witnit> I thought about dropping a mini itx and a keyboard similar to this into an enclosure with a keyboard sized footprint http://www.redlinx.co.za/ART/Keyboards/INDUSTRIAL%20METAL%20KEYBOARD/K-TEK-A300.JPG Something I couldnt ruin, but could still afford to do and still upgrade/modify
[15:11:39] <Loetmichel> i cant tell you the prices WE gat, because we are dell partner, so they are useless for non-partners
[15:12:28] <CaptHindsight> looks like $400
[15:14:55] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: why plastic film tho`?
[15:15:34] <CaptHindsight> keep things from falling into and behind the keyboard
[15:17:02] <witnit> you mean this? http://s903.photobucket.com/user/wintersweet220/media/store/black2.jpg.html
[15:18:05] <CaptHindsight> witnit: similar but clear film is all I need
[15:18:29] <Roguish> http://www.amazon.com/HDE-Spillproof-Portable-Silicone-Keyboard/dp/B0106JFW5W/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1455742396&sr=1-3&keywords=rubber+keyboard
[15:19:17] <Loetmichel> Roguish: i use one of these on all my CNC mills
[15:19:20] <CaptHindsight> http://image.dhgate.com/albu_424497256_00/1.0x0.jpg
[15:19:33] <Roguish> http://www.amazon.com/TopCase-Arrival-Silicone-Keyboard-MLA22LL/dp/B01AKMW3RU/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1455742457&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=keyboard+cover&psc=1
[15:19:38] <witnit> ohhh cute
[15:20:02] <Roguish> http://www.amazon.com/TopCase-Arrival-Silicone-Keyboard-MLA22LL/dp/B01AKMW3RU/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1455742457&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=keyboard+cover&psc=1
[15:20:13] <CaptHindsight> I gave up on the silicone keyboards
[15:20:20] <Roguish> go for the rainbow colors..............
[15:20:26] <CaptHindsight> except for very very low use apps
[15:20:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15892
[15:20:40] <witnit> I dont like the feel of the buttons on most of them
[15:20:50] <witnit> not to mention in oil, they probably turn to slime
[15:21:05] <Roguish> is that a suck table?
[15:21:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:21:45] <Loetmichel> witnit: solicone is oil resistant
[15:21:47] <Roguish> rats and keyboards are consumables.
[15:21:58] <witnit> ^
[15:22:04] <Loetmichel> thats rummer that turns into slime at mineral oil
[15:22:16] <Loetmichel> silicone, rubber
[15:22:23] <Loetmichel> <- sorts his fingers.... again
[15:22:24] <Loetmichel> ;)=
[15:22:40] <witnit> for me its easier to use a cheap usb keyboard and replace it as needed
[15:22:44] <CaptHindsight> or $5 keyboard coated in parylene
[15:22:48] <witnit> ^
[15:23:52] <witnit> I tried using an industrial style kiosk keyboard, the buttons alwasy felt terrible and eventually oil/mineral spirits broke the built in track ball and they key stopped coming up quickly
[15:24:07] <witnit> I want to try another brand of them
[15:24:26] <CaptHindsight> maybe I'll make a standard mini-itx and LCD enclosure for an all-in-one
[15:24:27] <witnit> was nice when it was wasnt filled with shavings and mineral spirits/oil
[15:24:32] <witnit> PLEASE
[15:24:37] <witnit> then sell them to us cheap
[15:25:04] <CaptHindsight> leak the plans to the Chinese under the cover of darkness
[15:25:39] <CaptHindsight> sit back, wait a few weeks, order from alimama for $29.95, win!
[15:25:50] <witnit> CaptHindsight: are you from north america?
[15:26:32] <CaptHindsight> witnit: what my memory tells me but I'm hoping otherwise
[15:30:48] <Roguish_> check out a hard working cpu https://imgur.com/C3GCA8B
[15:31:23] <witnit> this is michigan, maybe they have something useful http://www.dynics.com/#!brochures--datasheets/ceh2
[15:34:06] <Erant> Wow, a VMC just went for $500 at this auction
[15:34:52] <CaptHindsight> Erant: you're supposed to tell us these things before the auction is over
[15:35:44] <witnit> hindsight is always 20/20
[15:35:50] <Erant> I just came back from lunch.
[15:35:54] <Erant> And noticed it
[15:36:12] <Erant> Shizouka Millmaster B-5V
[15:36:54] <witnit> well that looks surprisingly nice for 500
[15:37:09] <witnit> just the iron alone looks expensive
[15:40:33] <Erant> They passed on two of them.
[15:40:43] <Erant> There were three for sale.
[15:42:35] <Erant> Also, I did tell y'all about this auction ;)
[15:44:13] <_methods> i love auctions
[15:44:20] <_methods> best place to get machines for sure
[15:46:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2016/sciaky-adds-next-level-control-IRISS-closed-loop-control-EBAM-metal-3d-printing.jpeg worlds largest goblet printer uses supported round rails
[15:46:29] <_methods> sciaky aren't they like the spotwelder guru's
[15:46:41] <Erant> _methods: Some stuff is going for waaay too much. Especially early on. Seems to be more reasonable now.
[15:46:55] <_methods> yeah they usually put the stupid stuff at the beginning
[15:47:05] <_methods> hand tools and endmills and drills
[15:47:30] <Erant> Surprisingly the end mills are at the end. Lot of random crap at the start though.
[15:47:30] <_methods> you never know with auctions though what people are gonna bid up on
[15:48:31] <Erant> There's like 10 Kurt vises up now.
[15:48:46] <_methods> ah those always seem to get good money no matter where you go
[15:48:51] <_methods> $200 or so
[15:49:15] <_methods> plain 6" vises?
[15:49:58] <Erant> "Angle lock vise"
[15:50:09] <_methods> yeah 6" anglocks
[15:50:27] <_methods> the first ones go for like $400
[15:50:35] <_methods> then they drop down to $200 eventually lol
[15:51:10] <_methods> you at the gene's machining one in santa clara?
[15:51:30] <Erant> He's lobbing them all together, and then letting the winner pick how many they want.
[15:51:33] <Erant> Yeah
[15:51:48] <Erant> I went and looked around this morning, doing the online thing now.
[15:51:56] <_methods> yeah way better that way
[15:52:27] <_methods> those vises look clean
[15:52:35] <_methods> they'l probably get good money
[15:52:45] <Erant> They are. $200-ish
[15:52:55] <_methods> yeah that's usually what they go around
[15:53:50] <_methods> weird that they put drill bits at teh end
[15:54:20] <_methods> ah you're going for that bench lathe and bench mill right?
[15:54:37] <Erant> Just the lathe, it's unlikely to sell for anything near my budget though.
[15:54:44] <_methods> ah well good luck
[15:54:50] <Erant> The mill looked nice, but I already have one.
[15:55:32] <Erant> Though it was in a backroom, people seemed to focus on the Mori-Seiki mostly.
[15:55:33] <_methods> it's a nice little lathe
[15:55:43] <_methods> looks like it's barely been used
[15:55:49] <Erant> Oh yeah
[16:32:00] <Deejay> gn8
[16:45:14] <MrSunshine> 5h test or so and not a single spike over 3800ns in jitter =)
[16:45:19] <MrSunshine> this might be the computer =)
[16:46:58] <Erant> You doing parallel port?
[16:50:32] <FloppyDisk> Erant - whoa - that lathe went for way more than I thought it would....
[16:50:58] <FloppyDisk> you're not BSC42224
[16:51:01] <FloppyDisk> ??
[16:52:35] <FloppyDisk> They just said - never used for the wabeco.
[16:53:28] <Erant> Nah. That thing went for a lot.
[16:53:39] <Erant> Waay out of my price-range.
[16:54:15] <Erant> I mean, I'm not surprised. I inspected the thing and it was rock solid.
[16:56:00] <FloppyDisk> Nice... You needed to buy one of the shizuka's (sp?)... $500 for that size mill... I wish I had a shop and space.
[16:56:15] <FloppyDisk> The bridgeport series I CNC went for $1000, nice deal.
[16:58:21] <Erant> FloppyDisk: I mentioned that earlier. It does NOT fit in my garage ;)
[16:58:37] <Erant> It's more than $500 just in scrap. Two of them didn't sell.
[16:58:46] <FloppyDisk> Mine too!!
[16:59:15] <FloppyDisk> You're right! I think you could get some $$ just for the old control, plus that scrap.
[17:04:14] <Erant> I was happy to see that it wasn't a machine-shop gone bankrupt though.
[17:04:19] <Erant> Owner just retired.
[17:05:24] <neckro23> hola folks
[17:08:18] <witnit> hallllo
[17:10:05] <_methods> what'd that lathe go for?
[17:10:49] <_methods> yeah it's amazing how little those bridgeport cnc's go for
[17:15:02] <witnit> i know a guy with a couple of those old stepper type bridgeports, I think he sold 1 for 800
[17:45:52] <Frank__5> time flyes huh?
[18:11:23] <Erant> _methods: $4k
[18:16:25] <Sync> well, most people realize, that they are not really the best
[18:28:48] <_methods> wow $4k for that guy eh
[19:07:28] <CaptHindsight> to yah ever just get tired of cleanin yer shootin irons? How many hours a day can you spend doing it?
[19:08:25] <malcom2073> Anyone who would get tired of cleanin shootin irons isn't a true murcan!
[19:45:06] <witnit> Im quite fond of having a hicktown full of guns. I personally never heard of anyone doing an open carry get mugged and always feel comfort in knowing a militia is only magazine away.
[19:46:11] <malcom2073> I'm quite fond of guns, it's the owners I'm often not fond of
[19:47:11] <witnit> Then again I'm the type of person that doesnt trust politicians or believe all police are the "good guys".
[19:47:56] <malcom2073> Statistically, you could replace police with well.... anything... and that sentance would still ring true.
[19:48:50] <witnit> right, so why offer someone you dont trust more privilege than you would your neighbor
[19:49:23] <bobo__> carefull there are more of them than us and they are organized
[19:49:36] <malcom2073> Because unlike my neighbor, they at least have *some* training
[19:49:57] <witnit> people have troubles understanding the fundamentals of the constitution and why people died for those rights
[19:50:03] <malcom2073> my neighbor on the other hand, is a complete fool and couldn't shoot his way out of a paper bag, so god help us if I'm ever in a situation requiring a gun and he is nearby
[19:51:29] <bobo__> give him a water gun
[19:52:51] <malcom2073> He has plenty of his own real ones heh
[19:53:06] <witnit> yeah but whats his demeanor?
[19:54:50] <witnit> normal people who have a gun would never consider using it in a crime.
[19:55:11] <malcom2073> It's not malicious intent I'm worried about, laws don't have any effect on that
[19:55:48] <witnit> people that dont have guns get walked on by their government
[19:56:19] <malcom2073> Erm... no?
[19:56:23] <witnit> no?
[19:56:53] <malcom2073> People that don't have guns *can* get walked on by *anyone* who has a gun.
[19:56:59] <malcom2073> But that's not relevant
[19:58:00] <witnit> right, because anyone with any sense in their head knows you have to defend yourself at times on this planet.
[20:00:18] <malcom2073> If you're going to be sarcastic, just go full out and say "at all times" heh
[20:01:19] <witnit> I like the gun debate :)
[20:01:31] <malcom2073> I'm not sure what you're debating to be honest
[20:02:07] <witnit> well some people think we should abolish all guns from citizens and others think we all should have a gun issued to each household
[20:02:23] <malcom2073> I think both ideas are dumb :)
[20:02:42] <witnit> right up until the moment your country is invaded
[20:02:58] <malcom2073> No, my ideals are not situational
[20:03:03] <malcom2073> Like I said
[20:03:16] <malcom2073> God help me if I'm ever in a situation near my neighbor which requires a gun.
[20:04:03] <malcom2073> He's the kind of idiot who thinks gun training coures are for "sissies"
[20:04:18] <witnit> training course?
[20:04:42] <witnit> if you need a training course to figure out a gun, you shouldnt have a gun
[20:04:52] <malcom2073> Ah, you're one of those :) Gotcha
[20:05:15] <witnit> I dont understand what you mean
[20:05:42] <malcom2073> I've had this discussion a few times with a few people, there's not a way in this world you will, so let's just drop it.
[20:06:07] <witnit> like I said, I just like the debate :)
[20:07:24] <malcom2073> I enjoy debating when there is something to be learned, or new insights to be gained. Debating for debatings sake is... well... there's a word for that :P
[20:08:26] <witnit> I dont quote work for the DoD either because I dont believe in shattering people lives with bombs either tho.
[20:08:46] <witnit> whenever I get military jobs to quote I throw them in trash
[20:08:56] <PetefromTn_> Well I machined all the parts for the doors I needed to make for my kitchen today. Just gotta glue them up and sand them once they are dry. The rest of the doors are already sanded and ready for finish.
[20:09:08] <witnit> pictures required
[20:11:50] <PetefromTn_> meh they are just simple flat panel doors nothing to see here... just glad they are almost done so I can stick them in there and get this house finished for the closing
[20:12:27] <witnit> lmftfy so you can GET BACK INTO THE SHOP if I remember correctly
[20:12:34] <witnit> =D
[20:30:10] <PetefromTn_> lmftfy?
[20:30:22] <witnit> Let Me Fix That For You
[20:31:05] <PetefromTn_> I got a bunch of things I could use FIXED around here but I doubt I will be getting back into the shop for a good while LOL
[20:31:47] <PetefromTn_> I think I found a suitable storage place for the CNC's down in Florida today at least it is the best I found so far.
[20:32:04] <PetefromTn_> and the guy has access to a forklift as well in case we need it.
[20:32:10] <witnit> how many lbs of iron?
[20:32:20] <PetefromTn_> but we should be able to load and unload without it actually
[20:32:35] <PetefromTn_> well the VMC is like 7k and the lathe is like 3.5k
[20:32:39] <_methods> you gettin riggers to move your machines?
[20:32:46] <PetefromTn_> no
[20:32:50] <_methods> oh
[20:33:58] <PetefromTn_> no I got a guy with a bigass dovetail hydraulic tilt trailer that is gonna load and haul them for me...with my assistance.
[20:34:56] <_methods> ah riggers will usually store stuff for people until it's time to move to final location
[20:35:03] <_methods> but since you're not using riggers
[20:35:06] <_methods> kinda rules that out
[20:35:12] <bobo__> Pete here I am getting ready to pound down 1 Pt of "Northern Black Cherry Sorbet" and there you are out of cheese cake . tough
[20:36:16] <PetefromTn_> _methods this is true but every actual RIGGER I called was just smoking the crack pipe with what they wanted to move the machines..
[20:36:38] <_methods> damn how much they quote you?
[20:36:40] <PetefromTn_> bobo_ sorry man they ate the whole damn thing at her work yesterday I did not even get a slice..
[20:36:45] <Tom_itx> they are probably bonded too
[20:36:45] <PetefromTn_> like 6k
[20:36:50] <_methods> oh wow wtf
[20:37:02] <PetefromTn_> this guy is insured and everything
[20:37:04] <_methods> that's stupid high for a lathe and a mill
[20:37:10] <witnit> ^
[20:37:14] <_methods> you don't even have big machines
[20:37:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is pretty much what I thought
[20:37:24] <PetefromTn_> and that was not the only guy
[20:37:28] <_methods> damn
[20:37:33] <_methods> i'd figure $3k tops
[20:37:33] <PetefromTn_> most wanted several thousand
[20:37:56] <witnit> I payed less than 2k for 2 very large screw machines delivered from bottom of state, loaded, unloaded and placed
[20:37:57] <PetefromTn_> BRB I gotta unload my Tig unit from my van into the shop
[20:38:22] <witnit> tig unit, that outta be another $2300 :P
[20:38:27] <_methods> yeah we got a our 6'x20' plasma from orlando for $3k
[20:38:31] <_methods> and it was an oversize load
[20:38:36] <_methods> thru 3 states
[20:39:20] <witnit> I wonder if its too late for him to back out
[20:40:00] <witnit> I dont really know the rates for that area but it just seems incredibly high
[20:43:37] <Duc> I really need to stay away from ebay when I have a idea in my head
[20:43:50] <Duc> used TSUDAKOMA rotary on the way
[20:44:06] <witnit> yup premature purchases are so easy to do
[20:44:14] <Duc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151881166863
[20:44:40] <witnit> "this is perfect" two hours later... "ohh dang I should do this idea totally different!"
[20:44:52] <Duc> LOL
[20:45:20] <Duc> $1,256 delivered. 9in unit
[20:45:38] <witnit> whatcha gwon do with it?
[20:46:00] <Duc> no freaking clue yet
[20:46:07] <witnit> hahahahahaha
[20:46:31] <witnit> welp, now im curious what your grand idea was that made you think you should get it
[20:47:03] <Duc> wanting to machine a handguard for a ar15 rifle and I want to be lazy about rotating the manual table I have
[20:47:39] <Duc> mainly the challenge of getting it working
[20:48:22] <Duc> and who wouldnt want a high end rotary table
[20:48:50] <witnit> I think you will have no problem getting it going, should be a fine project and one that has a resell value
[20:49:24] <witnit> whenever I make a purchase which is not something I am certain I will use, I wont buy it unless it has a good resell value
[20:49:37] <witnit> i am *not* certain
[20:50:37] <Duc> I will use it but I also dont make money on my equipment
[20:50:56] <witnit> yeah but equipment like that, you could!
[20:51:48] <Duc> yea I really hope it doesnt have a newer fanuc motor in the setup
[20:51:54] <witnit> imagine that thing cranking 24/7 on some long run blanket order of jobs. it would pay for its self in two weeks. and still run for another 10 years
[20:53:32] <witnit> what machine are you attaching it to?
[20:53:55] <Duc> a bridgeport boss5 that I just installed yaskawa servo motors on
[20:54:11] <witnit> and you have an extra amp already for it?
[20:54:20] <Duc> nope
[20:55:17] <Duc> need to see the motor first
[20:59:14] <Sync> fanucs are not too annoying to drive iirc
[21:00:30] <Duc> Sync: thought the new ones were difficult
[21:03:57] <bobo__> Sync: how about a over view of the servo driver you are working on ? please
[21:04:11] <Sync> like what?
[21:04:57] <bobo__> price max voltage
[21:05:31] <Sync> we'll run 300-350V DClink
[21:05:43] <Sync> price, hard to say, currently around 150€ per board
[21:06:42] <bobo__> + - 10volt control ?
[21:06:46] <Sync> no
[21:07:47] <Sync> quadrature or sserial currently, although something like rs485 would also work
[21:10:53] <Sync> +-10V would be possible, but not with the current hardware, as we have no analog circuit on it to handle the negative voltages
[21:12:28] <bobo__> I was thinking of replacement for older Indramat drives
[21:13:53] <Duc> so do the boards interface with mesa or seperate system
[21:14:21] <Sync> if they are not those strange 600V things, that's possible bobo__
[21:14:55] <Sync> Duc: well, you can interface them with a mesa card, but you don't have to
[21:15:34] <Duc> guess I will have to see what servo motors are on the rotary table since I cant find a manual for the unit
[21:15:49] <bobo__> 300 volt DC buss indramat drives
[21:17:00] <Sync> yeah why not, you'd have to set something up to convert the torque/speed signal into something we can use
[21:24:44] <bobo__> Sync I have trouble just trying to understand what you and ssi were discussing . but am still hoping you get it working any way
[21:25:56] <PetefromTn_> Whew..
[21:26:20] <PetefromTn_> managed to scratch the damn bumper on my van getting that heavy bitch out
[21:26:28] <PetefromTn_> kinda sad about that
[21:26:37] <Sync> pfft
[21:26:40] <PetefromTn_> but the good news is I hooked up my tank to the gauges
[21:26:52] <PetefromTn_> and reorganized the long cables and whatnot
[21:27:22] <PetefromTn_> grabbed my old Welding helmet that apparently not only deformed a bit in the bag hanging on the wall but the top band of the headband cracked
[21:27:33] <PetefromTn_> so I kinda clamped it to my skull
[21:27:43] <PetefromTn_> and put my old tig cup setup on it
[21:27:54] <Sync> bobo__: it works, the sserial stuff needs development tho
[21:27:55] <PetefromTn_> grabbed a little piece of stainless square stock
[21:28:01] <PetefromTn_> and fired it up
[21:28:03] <witnit> few things annoy me more than a helmet that falls down while welding
[21:28:17] <PetefromTn_> Thankfully it still works as awesome as it did before
[21:28:47] <PetefromTn_> I was kinda worried that those guys over there were playing with it or that loading and unloading it would have maybe damaged something..
[21:28:57] <PetefromTn_> that bitch is HEAVY lemme tell you...
[21:29:36] <bobo__> Pete man was that Black Cherry Sorbet was goooooooood. bet the Key lime pie reports are going to be a real pay back though
[21:30:00] <PetefromTn_> oh you had some Key lime pie too?
[21:31:09] <bobo__> your key lime pie reeports . to be
[21:31:46] <PetefromTn_> well my wife has never tried to make a key lime pie but I will say it is one of my favorites aside from cheesecake
[21:31:52] <CaptHindsight> crazy glue works in a pinch on broken helmets
[21:32:22] <CaptHindsight> be sure to have the remover handy when you want to take the helmet off
[21:33:21] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[21:33:30] <witnit> I want a tig welder, I havent used one in years and am not enjoying this old arc welder, you know those big red tombstones
[21:34:02] <PetefromTn_> ya know I am gonna probably get a nicer helmet when I get to Florida
[21:34:03] <zeeshan> get one
[21:34:05] <zeeshan> they are cheap
[21:34:05] <zeeshan> :P
[21:34:13] <tiwake> roycroft: wanna pick up a car for me a bit south of you?
[21:34:13] <zeeshan> then we can get cancer together from the fumes
[21:34:14] <tiwake> XD
[21:34:42] <witnit> yesh but such pretttty welds :)
[21:35:17] <PetefromTn_> DUC man I am SOOOO jealous of that fourth you got
[21:35:42] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: today I anodized my pocket knife \o/
[21:35:45] <Sync> zeeshan: that is why you wear a respirator
[21:35:50] <tiwake> purple and blue mix
[21:35:52] <zeeshan> doesnt matter
[21:35:55] <zeeshan> still gonna get cancer for it
[21:35:58] <zeeshan> from it
[21:36:15] <zeeshan> i know i defnitely can't breathe as good as i did before i started welding
[21:36:21] <zeeshan> and i wear a respirator
[21:36:28] <PetefromTn_> Shit I need to make a list of all the shit I do that causes cancer
[21:36:40] <witnit> tap magic!
[21:36:46] <Sync> I can def breath as good as before
[21:36:58] <Sync> as long as you don't burn tap magic, you are fine
[21:37:16] <witnit> that stuff worked soooo good but I think they got rid of it for similar reasons
[21:37:18] <bobo__> Pete start with #1 = living
[21:37:21] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: put "waking up in the morning" as the first one on the list
[21:37:40] <witnit> these two might be brothers
[21:37:57] <PetefromTn_> yeah I mean don't get me wrong I TRY to protect myself when I can
[21:37:59] <Sync> witnit: the problem with it is, that it contains tri
[21:38:10] <witnit> yes tri something something something
[21:38:18] <PetefromTn_> methyl ethyl bad shit
[21:38:20] <witnit> very bad for health
[21:38:24] <Sync> trichloroethylene
[21:38:26] <witnit> yeah that sit!
[21:38:31] <Sync> gotta know that
[21:39:58] <zeeshan> pretty much decided only going to weld my own things now :P
[21:40:37] <zeeshan> plus why weld when you can cnc for more $
[21:40:37] <zeeshan> :D
[21:41:37] <PetefromTn_> So with any luck I SHOULD be able to have all of the cabinet doors and drawer fronts finished and painted by the weekend. Hopefully anyway
[21:41:58] <zeeshan> http://shop.dmgmori.com/b2c/en/Merchandise/DMG-MORI-Porsche/Polo-Shirt-Racing/p/T306
[21:42:03] <zeeshan> can someone buy me this shirt? :D
[21:42:16] <witnit> how fast does it go?
[21:42:34] <Sync> you should cnc weld zeeshan
[21:42:46] <zeeshan> sync i think about it
[21:42:51] <zeeshan> fanuc robot doing it
[21:42:55] <zeeshan> one day :)
[21:43:05] <Sync> I need an orbital setup
[21:43:06] <witnit> additive and subtractive machining all in one machine
[21:43:26] <witnit> hnnnng so hot
[21:44:08] <Sync> still basically useless
[21:44:48] <Sync> zeeshan: the only annoying thing is programming it
[21:44:51] <Sync> and fixturing
[21:45:06] <Sync> so it basically only pays off when you are doing production
[21:45:16] <zeeshan> sync i was thinking it'd be easier to do with 2 robots
[21:45:22] <witnit> why two?
[21:45:23] <zeeshan> so one holds the whatever
[21:45:38] <zeeshan> and basically is a moving fixture
[21:45:42] <zeeshan> while the other gets into tight spots
[21:46:37] <Sync> ah
[21:46:38] <Sync> yeah
[21:46:39] <Sync> why not
[21:46:44] <Sync> although I have never seen that
[21:46:59] <witnit> robots are really flexible usually a rotary table can open up most tight spots and a trunnion/rotary is pretty simple to integrate motion for
[21:47:06] <Sync> I suppose two axis rotary + 7/9 axis robot would be enough
[21:47:17] <zeeshan> more dof cant hurt
[21:47:20] <witnit> in most cases
[21:47:20] <zeeshan> just harder to program
[21:47:31] <Sync> you are gonna hate life programming it tho
[21:47:36] <zeeshan> i taught the robots at the one job just using the pendant
[21:47:38] <zeeshan> using world mode
[21:47:49] <zeeshan> so programming isn't super hard using that method
[21:48:04] <zeeshan> but if you dont have a teach pedant i can see it being hard
[21:48:15] <Sync> well, yeah
[21:48:22] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gs1SQFKav8&ebc=ANyPxKo7ZXqNLfqpFP3PRcZQpBjj_wXQtpG0BVG6Z1iQrQfyDVlvA0WSZLc6jpSm2zZSWcMggY1JqqWLK2agdtSHzkzqqDNemw
[21:48:25] <zeeshan> enjoy the vid!
[21:48:26] <zeeshan> :D
[21:48:39] <zeeshan> he does not care about any weld fumes!
[21:48:55] <witnit> once you had your kinimatics figure everything would be good I think, but hardcoding a non production run would be devastating to the setup time
[21:49:00] <Sync> lel björk
[21:49:21] <zeeshan> i like to eat pork with my fork in new york while listening to bjork
[21:49:53] <Sync> seksi
[21:50:03] <Sync> only if you mispronounce björk
[21:50:03] <zeeshan> no coin stack
[21:50:06] <zeeshan> but color
[21:50:08] <zeeshan> yeaa!!
[21:50:17] <Sync> nobody needs a stack of coins
[21:50:50] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar14v7P16zA
[21:50:54] <zeeshan> see
[21:50:59] <zeeshan> someones already done it :D
[21:51:10] <Sync> I mean, basically cheating with that fitup :D
[21:52:15] <witnit> ohhh that trunnion is bangin
[21:53:37] <witnit> base price for that kind of build?
[21:53:48] <zeeshan> seeing its yellow
[21:53:55] <zeeshan> prolly 350k
[21:54:15] <witnit> i paid $100 for my mototman
[21:54:37] <zeeshan> that isn't built for a hobbyist :P
[21:54:47] <witnit> someone gutted the rotary axis from it and screwed up the wiring
[21:55:06] <Sync> hobbyist with a big pocket zeeshan
[21:55:40] <witnit> well its not any different than the old ones, mostly software changes as far as I can tell
[21:56:31] <PetefromTn_> that's a fusion weld from the robot no?
[21:56:32] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/oakville-halton-region/cincinnati-vertical-mill/1127971906
[21:56:33] <zeeshan> wow
[21:56:41] <zeeshan> look pete
[21:56:43] <zeeshan> !
[21:56:51] <zeeshan> i didnt know cinci made serious manual mills
[21:57:01] <Sync> oh that thing
[21:57:06] <Sync> with the single dc servo
[21:57:15] <PetefromTn_> oh hell yeah they made them forever
[21:58:23] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/oakville-halton-region/cnc-4th-axis/1137105367
[21:58:28] <zeeshan> think this has a haramonic drive?
[22:00:10] <Sync> prob not
[22:00:14] <zeeshan> 90 deg
[22:00:16] <zeeshan> ;/
[22:05:11] <toastydeath> herp derp
[22:06:13] <toastydeath> also cinci and k&t made the most serious manual mills around, imo
[22:06:35] <witnit> best iron
[22:07:32] <witnit> most of those machines you see look like they were rode hard and put away wet. yet they still hold tighter than many new machines
[22:07:47] <witnit> like an old warner swasey
[22:08:26] <toastydeath> i really want a #3 w&s
[22:08:45] <witnit> those gear?
[22:08:57] <toastydeath> ?
[22:09:12] <witnit> werent some of those gear and other belt driven?
[22:09:25] <toastydeath> iirc the belt driven ones are the much later, all-number models
[22:09:29] <toastydeath> like 3450 or some such
[22:09:48] <toastydeath> the main motor is belt driven but it's to a transmission in the headstock
[22:09:54] <toastydeath> 3 1" belts
[22:10:03] <witnit> good machines for heavy cuts and small batches
[22:10:40] <toastydeath> most definitely, i like turret lathes even for 2-3 of something
[22:11:03] <toastydeath> esp since they have six position stops on both carriage axes as well as x/y on the turret
[22:13:23] <witnit> I dont think alot of people can see how convenient they are until they bang out 50 identical parts for themselves in 20 minutes
[22:13:59] <witnit> ntm 90% of the time you save is from changing tooling and setting depths
[22:14:12] <witnit> the most boring parts of the machine world
[22:17:00] <Sync> only if you compare them to chinese ones witnit
[22:18:37] <toastydeath> sync ?
[22:23:14] <tiwake> http://tiwake.com/DSCN0104.JPG
[22:23:16] <witnit> Sync: pound for pound and old mill will be more ridgid than a new cnc
[22:24:35] <witnit> regardless of origin I feel
[22:25:16] <witnit> tiwake: I like the color but why are you showing us this? :)
[22:25:18] <toastydeath> agreed - older machines had a very diffrent design philosophy. built to resist very large, but slow forces
[22:25:19] <Sync> maybe, but rigidity is unimportant mostly
[22:25:51] <toastydeath> modern machines tend to go the opposite direction and try to manage large dynamic forces and are built around high speed, low force
[22:26:14] <toastydeath> static rigidity is very important in large machine tools
[22:26:31] <toastydeath> big tools are still built around the ideas of old machine tools from the 50s and 60s because the workload is different
[22:27:22] <toastydeath> small tools can be made much more productive by ditching that design philosophy and taking advantage of cam-generated toolpaths, which is the only way to use a 50 hp spindle on a small (40x40) milling machine
[22:28:45] <toastydeath> big isn't dead because there is an energy advantage to bigger cuts, so overall a large machine will remove move material per minute than a small machine given the same spindle horsepower
[22:28:47] <Sync> yup, high mrr in small machines doesn't come from making them rigid as hell
[22:28:51] <PetefromTn_> Gn8 Folks
[22:28:55] <witnit> cu!
[22:28:59] <toastydeath> bai pete
[22:29:00] <PetefromTn_> :D
[22:29:04] <Sync> it always depends
[22:29:14] <Sync> if your work is large, you gotta have a large machine
[22:30:04] <toastydeath> i mean, sure - but i'm talking purely about the two philosophies and why, when you can get away with it, big and slow is faster than high speed and light
[22:30:34] <toastydeath> a 50 hp DMG at full tilt at whatever insane spindle rpm can't remove as much material as a 50 hp roll lathe per minute
[22:30:58] <toastydeath> it's down to how the energy is being spent in the cut
[22:31:23] <witnit> ntm the newer machines depend on that technology to keep them from ripping themselves apart, the older machines can be put through hellacious crashes and still cost very little to repair
[22:31:23] <tiwake> witnit: why not? I thought people liked showing off cool little projects here :P
[22:31:55] <witnit> I was wondering what part of the project you were sharing with us, hahaha just looked like a knife with sweet colors on it :)
[22:32:14] <toastydeath> i don't entirely agree with that either, the best brands can still handle themselves like days of old. they're still scraped in, enormously solid, and able to break handle decent crashes because of it
[22:32:26] <tiwake> witnit: I reanodized my pocket knife today
[22:32:34] <tiwake> stripped the anodize off and redid it
[22:32:35] <toastydeath> less flying mass means less crash energy, but cheaper machines aren't built that way
[22:32:36] <witnit> ooooh, you did that?
[22:32:39] <tiwake> because why not
[22:32:58] <witnit> how did you get that fading effect?
[22:33:08] <tiwake> yeah, been doing a lot of anodizing recently, thought I would take a few hours and do something for myself today :3
[22:33:27] <tiwake> slow dip into two different dyes
[22:33:42] <witnit> I never educated myself on the process
[22:33:50] <tiwake> its not as much of a gradient as I would have liked, my muscles cant move that slow
[22:34:04] <witnit> gonna have to get a cnc dipper
[22:34:06] <witnit> :)
[22:35:42] <witnit> well I can tell you this toastydeath I had a screw machine catch fire and burn for 5+ minutes and the material was wrapped around every spindle and tool, and all it cost me was a little time with a hacksaw and some new plastic covers
[22:35:57] <toastydeath> hahaha
[22:36:00] <toastydeath> fucking screw machines man
[22:36:04] <toastydeath> tanks
[22:37:12] <witnit> Im pretty sure the ACMEGRIDLEY is the reason germany lost the war
[22:38:21] <witnit> Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right.
[22:38:56] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[22:39:22] <toastydeath> there was a screw machine shop near here that recently closed down and sold off their entire inventory as a single lot
[22:39:28] <toastydeath> all the cams and tools you could ever want
[22:39:48] <toastydeath> they didn't want it parted out, they wanted someone else to take the machines and use them
[22:40:02] <toastydeath> wish i had a place to store some sets of tooling =(
[22:40:02] <witnit> where about? michigan?
[22:40:13] <toastydeath> washington DC area
[22:40:21] <toastydeath> although i think the shop was more up toward PA
[22:40:38] <witnit> you know how much it all went for?
[22:42:44] <Sync> sure toastydeath, but you gotta compare apples with apples, comparing a lathe to a mill is not fair
[22:42:56] <toastydeath> same exists with lathes and mills
[22:43:14] <toastydeath> just that roll lathes are the most extreme example, so it would be more fair to compare it to an Integrex or something
[22:43:22] <witnit> or a shaper
[22:43:54] <toastydeath> more energy is spent in the shear plane than is spent in bulk deformation, so when you have fewer shear planes, the power requirement drops enormously
[22:44:07] <toastydeath> and you see that when you compare similar machines doing similar cuts
[22:45:04] <Sync> true
[22:46:09] <witnit> the game used to be how much steel can you cut in one hour and how long can you go before you have to fix the machine, these days large volume production is not the most common industry for business in america
[22:46:39] <toastydeath> i think that's a fair metric though, because it's what you're really measuring
[22:47:01] <toastydeath> who cares if the machine breaks if the total cost is lower
[22:47:15] <witnit> the reason new machines arent like old ones is because mostly they do the job differently
[22:47:22] <toastydeath> i mean, i care philosophically because I love machining
[22:47:27] <toastydeath> but from a business perspective...
[22:49:33] <witnit> our industry is going to the way side, most mfg will be done 100% autonomously our childrens children wont know how to use micrometers or drive a car.
[22:50:26] <toastydeath> hahah i'm more upset about the mic issue than cars
[22:50:53] <toastydeath> when I was in college I was pretty shocked at labs where the professors didn't know how to use calipers or a mic properly
[22:51:07] <witnit> you have about as much trouble finding a person that can read a set of mics in 20 years as you do finding someone who can read vernier calipers today
[22:54:37] <witnit> oh man I saw they braille micrometers on ebay once, man I wish I would have bought tho
[22:54:39] <witnit> those
[22:56:25] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[22:56:43] <witnit> im serious how cool would it be to read mics without looking at them!
[22:57:09] <toastydeath> could trick people into thinking you're a machinist jedi
[22:57:10] <witnit> so many times I lose my reading from some unusualy position dimension I must measure
[22:57:13] <witnit> oh
[22:57:23] <toastydeath> "it feels like .9855"
[22:57:25] <witnit> now I REALLY wish I had them
[22:57:27] <witnit> jhajhajhajha
[22:57:37] <toastydeath> "you just have to develop a feel, you see"
[22:57:44] <CaptHindsight> 1.0345 mm, 1.0346 mm, 1.0347mm..........
[22:58:23] <CaptHindsight> stop squezzing me
[22:59:10] <CaptHindsight> too much nagging already
[22:59:24] <CaptHindsight> I'd rather not have talking tools
[22:59:58] <Jymmm> Some industrial surplus... http://www.herbach.com/
[23:00:03] <witnit> I mess with a couple people at work, im usually pretty good at judging things within a few thousandths and call out measurements just by looking at a part or holding it, anything over a couple inches long and I cant tell tho :?
[23:00:30] <CaptHindsight> the human caliper!
[23:00:51] <witnit> sounds like a bad horror movie
[23:01:00] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[23:01:08] <toastydeath> "a rogue scientist obsessed with measurement"
[23:01:44] <witnit> I would run around saying things like, ill givem the whole 9 yards
[23:02:57] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=K2-003&Category_Code=BW
[23:02:59] <witnit> Jymmm: imcalling it now, that Amber Glass Storage Bottle is all mine!
[23:03:08] <witnit> dont you guys buy from under me now!
[23:03:36] <witnit> ok so thats a really good price for a giant balloon
[23:03:41] <CaptHindsight> too small for me
[23:03:47] <CaptHindsight> need 1l
[23:04:44] <witnit> neoprene balloons
[23:07:12] <witnit> does anyone need those 24vdc clear relays? with the little grey bases?
[23:07:25] <witnit> I got like hundreds and no little grey bases
[23:07:52] <CaptHindsight> have a pic or part number?
[23:09:33] <witnit> something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/MY2F-24VAC-OMRON-MY2-CUBE-RELAY-8-PIN-24V-DC-COIL-/331270061843?hash=item4d213bff13:g:0NkAAOSwQItT0XoG
[23:10:14] <CaptHindsight> 24V DC coil and what for contacts?
[23:10:22] <witnit> various
[23:10:39] <CaptHindsight> how many A contacts?
[23:10:45] <CaptHindsight> AMP
[23:11:14] <witnit> probably different ones, is there a minimum you need?
[23:12:07] <CaptHindsight> 4-5A
[23:12:40] <witnit> Ill look and see if I got em
[23:13:04] <CaptHindsight> are they all different size sockets or all the same?
[23:13:06] <witnit> I can just assume there are every kind
[23:13:09] <witnit> mostly the same
[23:13:39] <witnit> but there is two different ones, I think one is like 6 pin but bigger pins and some that are 8 pin but smaller pins... I cant say for sure
[23:14:03] <witnit> i think I have ac and dc ones
[23:14:23] <witnit> but mostly dc@24 and a handful at 12vdc
[23:22:10] <CaptHindsight> you need to know what sockets they work with
[23:22:38] <witnit> no, YOU need to know what sockets they work with :P they are just collecting dust for me
[23:22:54] <CaptHindsight> no no no you do
[23:22:57] <witnit> jhahjajha
[23:23:01] <witnit> no u
[23:23:32] <witnit> Ill look them up if I remember tonight
[23:24:18] <witnit> I got most of them bagged in like 25 pieces or so and each bag is probably a little different then I got one big bag of the same kind
[23:24:44] <witnit> Ill just have to look again
[23:25:27] <witnit> I think some are flip flopped on the N/O N/C locations from others other things I dont know anything about
[23:33:50] <witnit> how cool would it be to put a giant scanner/cmm on a robot so it can see the entire part that is to be welded and then teach it by using some kind of reflective markers/tape so like whereever the robot sees the painted surface it would work out the toolpath to do the work
[23:37:36] <witnit> I mean with the right R2D2 unit you could probably go around welding in patches on an oceanliner while its still cruising