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[00:51:32] <minibnz> ok i have looked at the backlash and its been reduced a lot but it still has 0.15mm on X axis.. :( way better than 0.52mm it had.. but still not the best.. the slided feel much tighter and solid maybe it will help with gears. i dont think its going to hurt :)
[00:52:59] <minibnz> if i tighten the split nut any more the axis starts to bind. maybe after its done a few laps i can adjust it more (could be a burr for the cutting. even though i did clean the threads as best i could
[00:54:33] <minibnz> and i still see the 0.005mm error ever second mm.. so i think thats the best i can really expect from the factory screws..
[00:56:49] <minibnz> my steps could also be out a tiny bit.. 0.005mm over 5mm if its not the every second error.. need to test in a few offsets to check that.
[00:56:49] <minibnz> or test with 5mm and 6mm travels..
[01:29:32] <minibnz> oh 4 little orings how canyou make so much difference in sound... just placed orings inside the handles on my mill so the oscilation of the steppers doesnt ring like a church bell on a sunday
[01:45:31] <minibnz> oh i think i might polishing turds with these screws.. they are so out all over the place..
[01:46:12] <minibnz> still trying to see if there is a pattern to it or not..
[01:46:14] <Jymmm> so you need some CRACK filler is what you're saying?
[01:46:21] <minibnz> heheheh
[01:47:31] <minibnz> at the moment it seems like the first 1mm is 0.95 and the second 1mm is 1.05 so its only accurate on every second mm.. i have to line my jobs up depending on if they have even mm's or odd mm's for points :p
[01:48:11] <minibnz> might have to go down that dark rabbit hole that is leadscrew mapping :(
[01:49:32] <minibnz> for at the moment i have more time than $$$$
[01:49:32] <minibnz> i just split my nuts and that helped alot i think my backlash is now down to 0.2 on both X and
[01:49:32] <XXCoder> thats weird
[01:49:34] <minibnz> Y. .it was 0.52mm before.
[01:49:36] <XXCoder> do it scale up?
[01:49:45] <XXCoder> .95, 1, 1.05, 1.10 mm so on?
[01:49:55] <minibnz> no thats what the dial indicator says 0.95 and then 1.05
[01:50:08] <XXCoder> try repeat it again
[01:50:13] <minibnz> then the next is 0.95 again then 1.05 i think there is a repeatable pattern
[01:50:15] <XXCoder> it may be drifting to one end
[01:50:20] <XXCoder> ah weird
[01:50:28] <XXCoder> there is backlash comp
[01:50:33] <XXCoder> its a setting somewhere
[01:50:41] <minibnz> i am going to have to check each and every mm.. that means moving the vice and everything..
[01:50:53] <minibnz> yeah thats down the rabbit hole i am trying to avoid :)
[01:51:09] <minibnz> but it looks like the mushrooms there are tasty...
[01:51:33] <minibnz> i found the backlash settings.. they are in my ini file.
[01:51:53] <minibnz> but i am still unsure if my axis scale is 100.0000% accurate..
[01:52:34] <minibnz> gotta poke at it some more and see if there really is a pattern or if i have been staring at it for too long
[02:02:23] <minibnz> i just checked another spot on the axis at random and its 0.95 1.05 1.03 0.97 so i think i have to look into how exactly you map the axis..
[02:02:37] * minibnz goes to read some documentation..
[02:03:10] <minibnz> before i go how strong a stepper do you need to tap threads?
[02:03:26] <archivist> the term you need to lookup is drunken thread
[02:04:16] <archivist> mentioned here
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/Glazebrook.php
[02:05:40] <archivist> it gives that periodic error
[02:06:48] <archivist> and this is me checking an axis after fitting a ball screw
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[02:08:51] <XXCoder> heh too much beer
[02:31:27] <Deejay> moin
[02:35:54] <minibnz> ok so to mapp the screws i have to measure the deviation at every 0.1mm? or can i get away with less points?
[02:37:23] <minibnz> then i punch that data into my hal file somewhere... ok this is going to need more beer than i have in the fridge..
[02:39:42] <XXCoder> you would save so much time if you had caliper with output
[02:42:01] <XXCoder> you know, one of those bars that has something like caliper digital display
[02:45:44] <archivist> I dont bother mapping the screw over the full length I just measure a local distance and correct if needed
[02:53:46] <minibnz> XXCoder i have scales and i built a usb interface for them.. but they are not water proof and my attempts to proof them have failed. i think i saved them... so if i mount the scales up again they only sample at 120hz max.. is this still worth it? i was told this would be far too slow to be useful this is why i took them off.
[02:54:09] <XXCoder> dunno, it may not be useful for normal use
[02:54:14] <XXCoder> might be useful for mapping
[02:54:31] <XXCoder> make a graph of mapped vs commanded positions
[02:55:15] <minibnz> 120steps per second would be the limit.. they are absolute scales so i thought i could make it work but it didnt look like it was worth the time.
[02:56:25] <minibnz> hmmm maybe i can just mount the scale in the vice and clamp the slider to the spindle
[02:56:45] <XXCoder> yeah as long as youre sure it is parallel :)
[02:57:01] <archivist> there seems to be a limit to how many compensation points per axis
[02:57:02] <minibnz> can use the dial ind to test that.
[02:57:16] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/config/ini_config.html
[02:57:24] <minibnz> i am still trying to find the format of the file :)
[02:58:57] <minibnz> ahh ok i see.. its where it should be then where it is on the forward stroke and then the back stroke.. and i should do this with backlash comp value set to zero?
[03:00:41] <archivist> if you set it, it ignores the backlash
[03:01:35] <minibnz> ok so i should clear it so it doesn't fight betwen when i test and when it uses the file
[03:01:45] <minibnz> that way my file has the full value
[03:02:02] <minibnz> let me dig up the scales and a display..
[03:19:39] <archivist> actually if you connect the scale to linuxcnc you can do most of the donkey work automagically
[03:43:48] <minibnz> i never actually got that far with it before abandoning/shelving it..
[03:44:54] <minibnz> i have it working on my laptop.. its not usb at all its rs232 i can swap the pic and move the code to a usb chip if that will help but for now it just streams the XYZ counts out to the serial port.
[03:45:14] <XXCoder> that should be suffecent
[03:45:39] <XXCoder> wonder if linuxcnc can push out xyz of commanded motions
[03:45:49] <XXCoder> (translated to machine coord)'
[03:46:47] <minibnz> each count is 0.009921875mm
[03:47:58] <minibnz> ok how exaclty do i do this.. i got stuck trying to work that out.. i can format the data into any form needed pretty much but i cant work out how to pipe the two together.
[03:48:22] <minibnz> mind you i was trying to use them in place of encoders
[03:54:56] <minibnz> every forum post i find says this is a fruitless exercise and doenst tell me how to do it :( that and the common theme is linuxcnc doesnt have rs232 drivers so i would have to write a driver :(
[03:55:17] <minibnz> surely someone has done this before..
[03:57:25] <minibnz> i think its going to be a excel operation..
[03:58:26] <minibnz> or maybe i can mod the firmware in my reader to make it more suitable to logging... then have it log at a set rate ans try and manually syncronize a very slow move on the mill..
[03:59:40] <XXCoder> hmm yeah sync is bit of a issue
[03:59:50] <XXCoder> how to corrspond two sets of data
[04:13:47] <toastyde1th> XXCoder, re: earlier
[04:13:48] <toastyde1th> sup[
[04:13:50] <toastyde1th> [[[
[04:14:03] <XXCoder> forgot what I wanted to talk
[04:14:06] <XXCoder> oh yes
[04:14:11] <XXCoder> odd thing
[04:14:36] <XXCoder> bank 1 and sensor 1 is showing little bit wavey when idling
[04:14:56] <XXCoder> cant see exact scale but around +- 3 or so
[04:15:03] <XXCoder> sometimes worse, excedding 5
[04:15:19] <XXCoder> so its not smooth. dunno if normal or not though
[04:24:58] <toastyde1th> how fast is it updating
[04:25:12] <toastyde1th> does it change very rapidly, like second to second?
[04:25:16] <toastyde1th> if so, that's normal
[04:26:23] <toastyde1th> what you're looking for, the bad thing, is it going to +25 and then staying there
[04:26:36] <toastyde1th> (or -25, depending on what the +/- represent in your ecu)
[04:27:11] <toastyde1th> swinging around means it's doing its job and handling the natural variations caused by a narrowband o2 sensor and general atmospheric changes
[04:28:07] <XXCoder> it stayed around -20
[04:28:18] <XXCoder> van was parked whole time
[04:28:24] <XXCoder> so shouldnt vary too much
[04:28:52] <XXCoder> I started test right after arriving
[04:31:01] <XXCoder> odd thing is other 3 stayed at -20 whole time, and MUCH more steady
[04:31:26] <XXCoder> so steady it looked like just a line
[04:31:49] <XXCoder> dunno if its inputting values correctly for those 3. ( bank 1, sensor 2, bank 2 for sensors 1, 2
[04:37:36] <minibnz> ok mounted the scale on my x axis and it seems to match up so far.. i think for this to have any chance of working i am going to need a home switch to set the zero.. the hard stop is not clean on this thing...
[04:38:43] <minibnz> and then i am going to have to write some python to strip values out of the DRO board.
[04:39:06] <minibnz> why is the bowl empty everytime i look at it...
[04:39:32] <XXCoder> rats eat it while youre not looking
[04:40:04] <minibnz> but the chips were for me not the rats they get fed after the lights go out :)
[04:40:12] <XXCoder> lol
[04:40:16] <minibnz> i thought we had a deal.. damn rats..
[04:40:22] <XXCoder> stainless steel rats ;)
[04:40:46] <XXCoder> (stainless steel rat is a title of one of pretty awesome series book.)
[04:41:38] <minibnz> ok i had no idea :) not much of a book fan
[04:42:52] <XXCoder> too bad
[04:45:04] <toastyde1th> XXCoder,
[04:45:10] <toastyde1th> it needs to be around 0
[04:45:12] <toastyde1th> if it's -20
[04:45:14] <toastyde1th> and STAYS there
[04:45:20] <toastyde1th> that means something is very, very wrong
[04:45:36] <XXCoder> weird
[04:46:00] <toastyde1th> (vacuum leak)
[04:46:10] <XXCoder> so it failed vacuum test
[04:46:33] <toastyde1th> the mass airflow sensor is supposed to tell the computer how much air is coming in, and then it sprays the right amount of fuel for the incoming air charge
[04:46:45] <toastyde1th> if the MAF is wrong for whatever reason, the O2 sensor picks that up
[04:46:53] <toastyde1th> and you get an adjustment in the fuel trim
[04:46:59] <toastyde1th> (deviation from 0)
[04:47:17] <toastyde1th> the fuel trims are only allowed to adjust a small percentage up or down - usually 15-30%
[04:47:50] <toastyde1th> the flow sensor is never 100% accurate so the O2 sensor deals with that by usually varying 2-5% up or down
[04:48:11] <toastyde1th> but if it pegs very high or very low that means the MAS is way, way wrong for some reason
[04:48:27] <toastyde1th> usually vacuum leakage, as discussed
[04:48:28] <XXCoder> how do I test?
[04:48:41] <toastyde1th> the poor man's test is to use propane
[04:48:50] <toastyde1th> while it's idling rough
[04:49:18] <toastyde1th> if you spray some propane into the intake while it's rough, it should clean up briefly
[04:49:33] <XXCoder> thats almost impossible to catch
[04:49:41] <XXCoder> because roughness lasts maybe half second
[04:49:48] <XXCoder> per minute or so
[04:49:53] <toastyde1th> that's fuckin' bizarre
[04:50:14] <XXCoder> though if driving round city long enough it develops more idle issue
[04:50:20] <XXCoder> freeways are no problem generally
[04:50:22] <toastyde1th> if it's that transient you have to go to other things
[04:50:29] <XXCoder> only at end do it has idle issues
[04:50:39] <toastyde1th> like investigating the spark/etc, not because it's probably spark, but because that can give you an idea what's going wrong
[04:50:49] <XXCoder> seemed to me it slowly gets worse on idle as its driven
[04:50:59] <XXCoder> even when already normal level heat
[04:51:23] <toastyde1th> if it's the ECR or something in the emissions gear that's fucking up, you'll see that more in stop and go traffic
[04:51:31] <toastyde1th> if the ECR is leaking or some shit
[04:51:32] <XXCoder> it may be buildup of something since speeding up enough (like freeay, say) it kind of resets
[04:51:48] <XXCoder> but still basic idle issues
[04:51:51] <archivist> plugs oil up on a worn engine
[04:52:25] <toastyde1th> freeway driving is not really diagnostic in many cases because it's a sort of idle state - the engine stays at relatively constant power
[04:52:45] <XXCoder> makes sense
[04:52:46] <toastyde1th> the vacuum level is low, lots of airflow so leaks don't matter as much and the ECU settles down
[04:52:58] <toastyde1th> lots of issues only show up when there's higher vacuum or heavy load
[04:53:11] <SpeedEvil> and it's all constant, so the servo/PLL loops all are doing their best
[04:53:19] <XXCoder> hmm
[04:53:25] <XXCoder> so what would be best thing to do next
[04:53:40] <toastyde1th> honestly I don't know what to advise because I'd be hunting down all the little side symptoms
[04:53:44] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: hire someone to take it out in the desert and set fire to it.
[04:53:48] <toastyde1th> and going on my gut
[04:53:49] <SpeedEvil> claim on insurance
[04:53:59] <XXCoder> heh
[04:53:59] <archivist> run at tick over for a while take out plugs, inspect
[04:54:35] <toastyde1th> that you have misfire/knock sensors freaking out on cyl 1 is weird
[04:54:39] <toastyde1th> i'd look at that
[04:54:53] <toastyde1th> but i would also be using propane or a smoke generator to just straight up try to find a leak
[04:54:55] <archivist> straw colour plug insulator, ok, black or wet not ok
[04:55:12] <toastyde1th> because based on everything you've said yesterday I think either the vac hose to the EGR, or the EGR itself is faulty
[04:55:18] <toastyde1th> the codes + the symptoms
[04:55:40] <XXCoder> archivist: I replaced spark plugs a while ago
[04:55:45] <XXCoder> maybe a year by now
[04:55:46] <toastyde1th> the fuel trim is telling you that your engine is running lean as fuck
[04:56:00] <XXCoder> thats not good as it "cooks" engine inside
[04:56:01] <toastyde1th> which coencides with the power loss you've had intermittently
[04:56:03] <archivist> XXCoder, if it improved then got bad again
[04:56:32] <toastyde1th> it will *also* cause knock/preignition
[04:56:40] <archivist> plug state is a good indication of general engine condition
[04:56:42] <toastyde1th> because the flame front is so, so much hotter
[04:56:49] <XXCoder> archivist: its still better than before, I fixed some serious issues, but this is one issue that could not go away
[04:57:11] <toastyde1th> pull the plug on cyl 1 and look for white
[04:57:13] <XXCoder> toastyde1th: may explain why that termstat was broken when I replaced it
[04:57:21] <XXCoder> disc was bent slightly
[04:57:42] <XXCoder> so it was jammed and could not fully close, leaving little bit gap.
[04:57:56] <archivist> look at all plugs if some are discoloured then it shows a problem
[04:57:58] <toastyde1th> but generally the plugs aren't going to show you much about issues that are only caused at idle
[04:57:59] <XXCoder> if its running lean it would ve very hot
[04:58:12] <XXCoder> toastyde1th: got examples of "burnt" vs normal cooked sparkplugs>
[04:58:40] <toastyde1th> http://www.tuningmatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/spark-plug-lean-rich-optimal.jpg
[04:58:43] <archivist> I expect an oily plug to cause a misfire at idle
[04:58:59] <archivist> faulty rings
[04:59:11] <toastyde1th> archivist, everything in the ECU is pointing toward vac leak, as well as the symptoms during driving/off idle
[04:59:13] <XXCoder> heh all 6 was at abnormal levels, all black basically
[04:59:16] <minibnz> i think the scales have at least answered one question. i set it to move 100mm and the scales went from 144 upto 10255.. * 0.0099218 to get mm's i get 100.31mm.. that pretty close
[04:59:17] <XXCoder> one being bit oily
[04:59:31] <XXCoder> I assumed it was due to YEARS too long operation
[04:59:32] <toastyde1th> i also don't trust the plugs on an engine with an ECU that has vac leaks
[04:59:47] <toastyde1th> because as soon as he starts to drive the shit goes from running too lean to running ultra-rich
[04:59:49] <archivist> fault codes often send you up the garden path
[04:59:54] <XXCoder> minibnz: it';d be good of ~.01 mm
[05:00:05] <toastyde1th> this isn't a fault code, i got him to look at the fuel trims
[05:00:29] <XXCoder> yeah it was all -20, with #1 varying a tiny bit and others rock steady
[05:00:33] <minibnz> XXCoder oh you have high standards dont you :)
[05:00:36] <XXCoder> cyc 1 may be kinda bad
[05:00:45] <XXCoder> minibnz: nah I want .00001mm ;)
[05:01:12] <miss0r> FUCK ! carbide endmill fried. I miscalculated the depth and I cut through draining the floot coolant
[05:01:17] <minibnz> im at 0.31% damn it :)
[05:01:30] <toastyde1th> XXCoder, you're going to have to do some more reading because unless someone is with you to follow the clues, it's going to be too easy to miss shit
[05:01:32] <minibnz> miss0r Dang...
[05:01:38] <toastyde1th> I'd honestly take in in and describe what you're experiencing
[05:01:59] <XXCoder> heh car repair is one of few stuff thatmakes me wish I can hear
[05:02:19] <XXCoder> I am more sensive to vibrations but that is hardly hearing.
[05:03:07] <toastyde1th> get a long handled screwdriver, put the handle against the bones directly in front of your ear, and hold the point on metal around the engine
[05:03:09] <minibnz> XXCoder not sure if this is applicable but i have a cousin thats hard of hearing and he works on cars.. he uses a screwdriver (big end to the ear) and he can translate that into whats going on inside the engine..
[05:03:12] <miss0r> XXCoder: chances are you have hightened sight/feeling sensation. also, you can still enjoy your meal with a baby crying its lounghs out! i must say I somewhat envy you
[05:03:20] <toastyde1th> even if you can't hear, bone conduction really helps with sensing vibration
[05:03:45] <toastyde1th> and it helps pinpoint where the vibration is
[05:03:52] <XXCoder> toastyde1th: yeah thing is nearly all deaf people got TINY resudental hearing
[05:03:53] <toastyde1th> you can hear main bearing issues, valve issues, etc
[05:04:04] <XXCoder> I'm actually one rare example of true purely deaf
[05:04:06] <XXCoder> 100%
[05:04:07] <minibnz> you place it with the tip touching things and you can locate where they are coming from, usually good enough guide for him to work out what to take apart
[05:04:09] <miss0r> FUCK... it also moved the workpeice
[05:04:13] <miss0r> I might cry
[05:04:32] <XXCoder> anyway my point is that I basically never developed hearing centers in brain
[05:04:49] <minibnz> ok that makes things a bit different...
[05:04:57] <XXCoder> fun isnt it lol
[05:05:13] <XXCoder> honestly hearing is one of least problems
[05:05:17] <XXCoder> anyway
[05:05:18] <minibnz> your best friend migt be a ODBII reader.
[05:05:23] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:05:26] <XXCoder> I have one
[05:05:35] <minibnz> no help?
[05:05:42] <toastyde1th> lots of help
[05:05:43] <XXCoder> luckly my van is first year to have it
[05:06:02] <XXCoder> yeah lots of help, but its not everything
[05:06:48] <toastyde1th> at this point you either have to dive into how all the systems play together and how to interpret clusters of data, or take it to someone
[05:06:57] <miss0r> Issue is: I cam doing a cutting pass on a ~250kg heavy 37mm steel plate. it is only a rough cut - luckily. but now I will have to realaign it :'(
[05:07:13] <minibnz> XXCoder what about you make a peizo pickup for a raspberry pi and a lcd screen like a visual stethoscope?
[05:07:13] <toastyde1th> everything everyone has said is valid, but that doesn't matter because it's ultimately how *everything* sits in relation to everything else
[05:07:36] <XXCoder> yeah systems ingeration is bit hard
[05:07:40] <XXCoder> not everyone can do it
[05:07:46] <minibnz> you could do all sorts of fun stuff with that.
[05:07:50] <miss0r> speaking of babys crying... I have to go to the wife now
[05:07:53] <toastyde1th> there are actually special mechanics that don't work for a shop that JUST do this kind of work
[05:08:17] <toastyde1th> they don't even fix the problem, they just come to the shop once a week to diagnose problems not directly solved by sensors
[05:08:22] <toastyde1th> or obviously failed components
[05:09:07] <XXCoder> would it surpise you that there is same people in CS?
[05:09:09] <minibnz> i have a friend like that for my beetle.. can almost hold my phone up to the car and he can diagnose it :)
[05:09:13] <minibnz> but it is a beetle..
[05:09:17] <toastyde1th> cs?
[05:09:19] <XXCoder> ingeration of many modules of software
[05:09:24] <XXCoder> computer science
[05:09:28] <toastyde1th> oh, i belive it
[05:09:29] <minibnz> coders :)
[05:09:39] <XXCoder> all modules may have properly coded, but interactions..
[05:10:23] <minibnz> mech engineers are the same.. with solid works.. we had one guy come in three days a week that would draw out our sketches for us in soldi works.. and other things as well. but he liked doing that sort of stuff.
[05:11:40] <toastyde1th> cars are weird because it's like people are losing that skill over time
[05:11:43] <minibnz> i could probably do the translation work but its the indepth knowledge that i lack... like really how thin can you make a part before it will fail etc..
[05:11:57] <toastyde1th> because so much IS covered by sensors and obvious part failure now
[05:12:10] <minibnz> the cars themselves are becoming less user freindly for repairs..
[05:12:10] <toastyde1th> it used to be that a goddamn mechanic was a goddamn mechanic
[05:12:18] <toastyde1th> that is true to an extent
[05:12:40] <minibnz> my dad has 1928's ford model a's there aint nothing you cant fix on that thing..
[05:12:54] <toastyde1th> personally I like how it is now, because there's so much data you don't have to do as much troubleshooting
[05:12:56] <minibnz> new cars have too many black boxes
[05:12:59] <XXCoder> also a tank
[05:13:21] <toastyde1th> the electronics are not so much a black box, but you have to invest the time in learning how it works
[05:13:25] <XXCoder> oh wait not that one lol
[05:13:27] <toastyde1th> and most gearheads do not want to go near electricity
[05:13:38] <XXCoder> friend of mine is restoring and building one
[05:13:45] <XXCoder> been decades
[05:14:01] <toastyde1th> like you can hook up and watch the voltage develop on a spark pack and quickly figure out a whole ton of shit
[05:14:17] <toastyde1th> fuel and air problems, just by knowing how to read the voltage
[05:14:18] <minibnz> the older the car the easier it is to understand.. they only put stuff on that was needed..
[05:14:46] <minibnz> the only factory option extras were those few bolts you cant find the right home for but the car will still work fine :)
[05:14:47] <toastyde1th> wideband O2 sensors can give you a ton of information, but you have to know how they work
[05:14:56] <toastyde1th> because they're current sources not voltage sources
[05:15:21] <toastyde1th> so i don't think it's a black box, but i do think there's a new set of skills people aren't willing to learn
[05:17:01] <minibnz> a lot of grease monkeys are happy to swap parts and try stuff until it requires pulling the whole engine out to do spark plugs.. just incase it was a bad one they just put in :) new cars also need special tools to get into the tight spaces as they are not designed to be worked on as such... theyare designed to be easy to build.
[05:17:36] <minibnz> ie you can get the air con compressor off a new car with out shifting the block off to the side and you have the exhast off already etc..
[05:17:36] <XXCoder> minibnz: easy to build should mean easy to reverse
[05:17:52] <XXCoder> but then steps must be same
[05:18:12] <toastyde1th> minibnz, most cars have a service position
[05:18:20] <toastyde1th> that most people don't know about
[05:18:21] <minibnz> yeah it should but who really has a hoist and wants to drop the drive train to do a little job that could be done easier on older cars cuz they thought about repair time :)
[05:18:40] <toastyde1th> the whole front end can be dropped off in about 10 minutes on most cars and it makes engine access so easy
[05:19:19] <toastyde1th> and so shit is built now with the understanding that for some jobs, you have to put it in the service position if you want the job to go fast
[05:19:40] <minibnz> my beetle has four bolts that will drop the engine out :) takes me less than 25mins on the side of the road.. and yeah i have had to do that once.. to get a carby jet out of the intake manifold..
[05:20:03] <minibnz> was not plesant all i had was a kerb and a whinging GF....
[05:20:20] <minibnz> try that shit on a new car :)
[05:21:04] <minibnz> its ok if you want to ask about my head injury :p i am used to it.... its the only explianation
[05:21:23] <toastyde1th> lol
[05:21:28] <nos> https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/40o6nc/2_unit_tests_0_integration_tests/
[05:21:33] <minibnz> i love my beetle
[05:21:38] <Jymmm> the whiny gf gave you a head injury?
[05:22:30] <XXCoder> lol nos
[05:22:31] <minibnz> oh no the head injury came along before her..
[05:22:39] <nos> :)
[05:23:54] <minibnz> i am in the process of stripping it all back again.. my brother has a industrial air compressor so its going to get the bare metal treatment and i can fix up all my bodgy work..
[05:24:23] <minibnz> replace the doors and cut out the rust again.. seems like i just did it.. but it was over 17years ago..
[05:25:28] <nos> Anybody ever got an air compressor to run the Diesel cycle? \o/
[05:25:59] <minibnz> was really surprised its been parked up for the last 6 years and the engine still fired up with out too much troubles.. quick squirt of oil down the plugs and a clean of the carby and away it went.. wouldnt stop as the breaks were ceased..
[05:26:25] <minibnz> nos as in combust deisle in an aircompressor cylinder?
[05:26:39] <nos> minibnz: any combustible
[05:26:44] <minibnz> bad finger order today.
[05:27:16] <minibnz> have not really heard of anyone trying. .seen lots of people convert beetle motors into air compressors and fridges and gens
[05:27:55] <minibnz> i guess it could work
[05:28:17] <XXCoder> theres few wood gas cars tii'
[05:28:18] <nos> I have an idea for how to make a rather efficient air compresor, with an oil mister and a cyclone separator. But you have to keep the oil from catching fire.
[05:28:18] <XXCoder> too
[05:28:54] <Jymmm> nos: remove the oxygen
[05:29:00] <minibnz> i have seent that on the tv show the colony.. its like survior in the city..
[05:29:05] <nos> minibnz: very cool to know people convert car engines to compressors. That's very relevant data...
[05:29:08] <Jymmm> nos: toss in the freezer
[05:29:09] <minibnz> they called it a gassifier..
[05:29:56] <minibnz> nos VW engines are easy you basically change it to run on 2 cylinders and use a new camshaft
[05:30:00] <nos> Jymmm: You need clean air for an oxygen separator, and the oil mist and cyclone separator would provide that, but it's a catch-22.
[05:30:30] <minibnz> i saw a youtube of a dude that cut up 2 motors to make a 7cylinder radial engine for a plane
[05:30:35] <nos> Jymmm: The oil would also act as coolant, reducing the energy needed to compress the air.
[05:30:56] <Jymmm> nos: OR... could just go buy a damn compressor ;)
[05:31:05] <nos> NEVER
[05:31:42] <XXCoder> heh if we ever invent portals (as found in game Portals) we would be able to make damn near free compressed air
[05:31:42] <nos> I wanna know if this sort of concept would work...
[05:32:04] <minibnz> personally i think its better to just add a compressor to the output of the standard motor. then you can clutch in whatever you need a genny, compresor firdge what ever..
[05:33:02] <nos> I have a scroll compressor from an AC unit that I want to repurpose...
[05:34:23] <minibnz> ooo nice and quiet.. give it to me :)
[05:35:14] <nos> ya, very quiet! But I hear the lubrication issue quickly comes back to bite you and since it's single-stage to 30 bar you'd get a lot of heat built up.
[05:35:56] <nos> I figure, inject oil mist, stop the Diesel effect somehow, and separate the oil mist with a cyclone.
[05:36:35] <nos> The oil mist should scrub stuff like moisture from the air.
[05:36:54] <minibnz> but the oil mist will start the diesel effect if the air is too hot and there is o2 in there?
[05:36:59] * SpeedEvil sighs.
[05:37:04] <nos> minibnz: exactly.
[05:37:16] <minibnz> now i see why you wants to scrub the air first.
[05:37:19] <XXCoder> other method would be raw iron dust
[05:37:23] <Jymmm> nos: OR... just go buy a damn compressor ;)
[05:37:30] <XXCoder> that would suckj exy, but not water though
[05:37:40] <XXCoder> *suck oxy
[05:38:03] <XXCoder> other method would be to somehow scrub pre-compressed air first
[05:38:15] <XXCoder> (pipes full of white rice? lol)
[05:38:18] <SpeedEvil> nos: this i no better than using an intercooler
[05:39:26] <nos> I was thiking, if you could cool the oil enough to make that your inter/precooler, then you might be able to drop the air temp below combustion levels.
[05:41:22] <nos> Jymmm: If this idea works then it'd be something I could sell rather than buy...
[05:41:52] <Jymmm> nos: OR... just go buy a damn compressor ;)
[05:42:16] <minibnz> ok ithink i have a way to easily capture my axis compensation.. i piggyback the step signal from linuxcnc and use that to triger the logging with the serial port.. i should be all good as long as i go slow enough for the serial port to do its thing..
[05:42:37] <nos> Jymmm: That's no fun. :(
[05:43:03] <Jymmm> nos: Cause the liability for what you are describing is gonna be thru the roof
[05:43:35] <XXCoder> cooling may offset the advanges.
[05:43:39] <nos> Nah, just put enough safety stickers on it, it'll be fine.
[05:43:48] <nos> Or make sure no one knows it was me who built it.
[05:44:10] <Jymmm> Remove all warning labels and let evolution take it's natural course.
[05:44:47] * Jymmm post the logs files to tweeter
[05:45:32] <nos> XXCoder: Water evaporative cooling of the oil could suffice... If not, then things get difficult.
[05:48:24] <nos> The cyclone separator would have to be a custom job, I think...
[05:49:50] <SpeedEvil> If you want a fun dynamic compressor, I suggest a valveless pulsejet
[05:50:00] <nos> You're unlikely to get the air flow needed for efficient centrifugal separation out of the compressor, so some sort of squirrel cage fan inside the thing could be needed.
[05:50:01] <SpeedEvil> Or a detonation wave device.
[05:50:08] <nos> :o
[05:50:19] <nos> Pulsejets are a bit loud...
[05:50:24] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[05:50:59] <SpeedEvil> I am depressed nobody has yet implemented the pulsetrombone.
[05:51:08] <nos> lol
[05:51:36] <nos> pulsebagpipe
[05:51:40] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: They have, but it's rated XXX
[05:52:06] <SpeedEvil> nos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8CQuAiTess
[05:52:06] <_methods> rustytrombone
[05:53:17] <nos> lol
[05:59:49] <SpeedEvil> Was there someone into sous-vide here - I forget.
http://imgur.com/gallery/YJ0KL1a
[05:59:56] <XXCoder> lol
[06:00:05] <XXCoder> portland is weird
[06:04:18] <minibnz> going to have to put home switches on x and y..
[06:21:05] <minibnz> do you think its worth getting or even making a digital edge finderand try and hook that into linuxcnc? i am thinking of putting a small bearing on the end of an arm attached to a peizo use a MCU to turn on a few leds. might even add a infrared led and pickup on the post for closed loop
[06:21:29] <minibnz> i dont think it will be too hard on my mates lathe to make this up.. circuit will be small and battery powered.
[06:22:02] <minibnz> ifi get really trick i can have the collect complete the circuit to turn it on to save battery power :)
[06:23:31] <XXCoder> heh or make it powered by machine motions
[06:23:37] <minibnz> just looked at the signal out of the peizo cell and it looks pretty easy to capture the peaks out of.. bigger peaks more leds..
[06:23:40] <XXCoder> that'd make it really immortal battery-wise
[06:24:07] <XXCoder> peltz. wonder how much current can be tapped from cutting vibrations
[06:24:07] <minibnz> was just thinking that.. maybe a reed switch unmodified will close when you spin it up.
[06:25:00] <minibnz> use the centrafugal forces to close the contacts instead of a magnet
[06:28:11] <minibnz> will fit the form factor i had in mind..
[06:29:49] <minibnz> will happily make this one open source.. i think accuracy will be pretty easy to obtian on a lathe that has good runout
[06:32:53] <minibnz> thinking i might not even use a pcb.. use a small ass soic 14 pic processor and a reed switch :)
[06:33:13] <minibnz> couple of button batteries and i am away..
[06:33:25] <nos> I saw this cool trick where they cut grooves into a piezo disk buzzer to create voltage zones.
[06:33:40] <minibnz> hmmmm
[06:34:05] <nos> So from one sensor you get many. :)
[06:35:05] <minibnz> i was just thinking of monting the peizo with a cavity on top supported in a cup.. then the probe would push up on the center area of the disc. as the bearing on the end of the prob spins i would get a sin wave out that matches the RPM
[06:36:07] <nos> http://hackaday.com/2015/01/13/cheap-diy-microscope-sees-individual-atoms/
[06:36:14] <minibnz> so if i spin at 6000rpm i would get a 1khz signal to sample.. pics on their RC clock can handle 2khz sample rate with ease.
[06:38:06] <nos> hmm
[06:38:29] <nos> Could resonanse be an issue?
[06:39:18] <nos> There are insert endmills with the inserts at uneven angles to combat harmonics.
[06:41:09] <nos> Wonder if you could detect the bristles of a spinning brush hitting a surface if you had a piezo mechanically coupled to the spindle...
[06:41:13] <minibnz> wow
[06:41:52] <minibnz> nos i reckon you could but that would not be really accurate as they would flare as you spin them
[06:42:06] <minibnz> maybe at slow speeds but why?
[06:42:14] <nos> It'd look cool.
[06:42:38] <nos> ¯\(º_o)/¯
[06:42:39] <XXCoder> minibnz: actually if I recall resonance can cause issues for cnc
[06:42:46] <nos> Not all my ideas are great
[06:43:14] <XXCoder> steppers feel different when its resonancing but besides that dunno
[06:43:17] <minibnz> hmmm yeah i guess i would see that before the probe is touched
[06:43:52] <minibnz> i could have a auto calibrate routine.. the chip i have kicking around has plenty of grunt :)
[06:44:26] <anomynous> nos, why are your eyes of different size
[06:44:27] <minibnz> i will have to keep the weight of the probe as light as possible to avoid it wanting to flare out too..
[06:44:33] <nos> Bristles would have a sort of chip thinning effect going on...
[06:44:35] <anomynous> you need to fix that
[06:44:38] <anomynous> and their position
[06:44:41] <anomynous> theyre not symmetric
[06:44:58] <anomynous> the gcode for that smiley
[06:45:00] <nos> anomynous: No one's eyes are symmetric!
[06:45:25] <anomynous> and no lathe can procude cylindrical surfaces
[06:45:28] <anomynous> or something
[06:46:26] <anomynous> hmm.
[06:46:36] <anomynous> maybe you could rotate the head so the eyes are at level
[06:46:45] <anomynous> then theyre only different size. maybe thats ok
[06:47:08] <nos> Oh you
[06:47:11] <anomynous> what?
[06:47:26] <nos> ᔦ(ツ)ᔨ
[06:47:30] <anomynous> =)
[06:49:13] <minibnz> i really like the scanning microscope
[06:49:50] <minibnz> i really wants a gas spectrometer :)
[06:50:30] <minibnz> particale accelerating and detecting :)
[06:50:48] <minibnz> would be a fun project..
[06:50:56] <anomynous> what is a gas spectrometer and what do you do with it?
[06:50:58] <anomynous> btw
[06:51:21] <enleth> a gas spectrometer is indispensable for determining composition of unknown alloys
[06:51:24] <anomynous> is it possible to just crush some grill coal and torch a part red hot and put it there to suck some carbon
[06:51:35] <anomynous> no owens or anything
[06:51:41] <anomynous> just torch it to case harden
[06:52:04] <minibnz> you put a sample into it and you burn it with a laser then you shoot the particales around a bend in a pipe then count the particles that hit the sensor. this gives you a wieght of the bits getting burt by the laser..
[06:52:06] <enleth> you take some filings, set them on fire and see the results on the spectrometer
[06:52:49] <minibnz> you need a really good vacuum and really powerfull coils to get the particles to bend around the pipe..
[06:52:54] <anomynous> so thats what they use at reception of junk metal?
[06:53:02] <anomynous> handheld thing that lasers metal
[06:53:15] <nos> :o
[06:53:16] <anomynous> :D
[06:53:23] <minibnz> oh wow didnt know they had handheld ones..
[06:53:25] <nos> That's some high-end scrapyard you got
[06:53:33] <minibnz> how do they work,,
[06:53:58] <nos> Mine just uses a magnet and declares stainless / not stainless
[06:54:01] <minibnz> how do they get the vacuum to seperate the particles by weight. and then count them..
[06:54:58] <minibnz> they might be doing some sort of submlimation test
[06:55:21] <minibnz> where you get the vapor to settle on a strip that you can do a test on
[06:55:40] <nos> You ionize and subject the plasma to a magnetic field.
[06:56:07] <toastyde1th> that's... that's not usually how those work, but i'm not going to suggest that those don't exist
[06:56:18] <nos> :o
[06:56:25] <toastyde1th> most of those are x-ray flourescence spectrometers
[06:56:29] <minibnz> heheheheeh that stops my head hurtin
[06:56:41] <minibnz> or GPR based units.
[06:56:47] <anomynous> http://www.thermoscientific.com/content/tfs/en/product/niton-xl2-xrf-analyzer.html
[06:56:50] <anomynous> something like that?
[06:57:06] <minibnz> oh maybe they work by heat loss...
[06:57:12] <minibnz> like a diamond tester.
[06:57:25] <toastyde1th> the role of the plasma is both to gather and pump the ions, and then the sensor looks at the emission spectra as the electrons fall back to ground state
[06:57:32] <toastyde1th> and yes, like what anomynous linked
[06:57:48] <anomynous> theres a thing that lasers metal and then somehow looks at the gasses. Dunno :] I think there is such a thing if i didnt make it up
[06:58:04] <toastyde1th> it's light based, not magnetic
[06:59:53] <nos> Like a laser without a resonator...
[07:00:01] <minibnz> you pass the gass past a light and it changes color thats more like a visual spectrometer. but that web page says non destructive.. any level of vaporisation would be classed as destructive
[07:00:02] <toastyde1th> you can sort shit based on mass spectroscopy but that's not often used for metal analysis
[07:00:17] <toastyde1th> minibnz, there are non-destructive xrf measurements as well
[07:00:29] <toastyde1th> it's flourescence, you don't *have* to use plasma to pump it
[07:00:44] <minibnz> interesting..
[07:00:59] <toastyde1th> scrapyard xrf spectrometers do use plasma because it burns into the sample a little, past any oxides or surface impurities
[07:01:15] <minibnz> ahh that makes sense..
[07:01:21] <minibnz> to clean a test zone..
[07:01:46] <toastyde1th> they're not super accurate and only look for specific energies based on common alloying components
[07:02:01] <toastyde1th> whereas lab spectrometers are very accurate and are much more sensitive to surface issues
[07:03:12] <toastyde1th> using electrons is a common xrf source, as well as just plain ass x-rays (hence the name xrf)
[07:04:25] <toastyde1th> the goal of xrf is to irradiate the surface with enough energy to excite the electrons in the sample, and watch the emission spectra - like a white sheet under blacklight, the blacklight is outside our visual range, but things glow because the UV is pumping them
[07:04:36] <toastyde1th> and the emission is at a different wavelength than the source
[07:05:37] <miss0r> I am on the hunt for a set of vice i saw once. it consists of two jaws. each tighten in a given direction when they are tightened to the table. so I can basically clamp something big. what are thoes called?
[07:07:01] <nos> Wonder what you could do with just an electric arc flash, a prism and a camera...
[07:07:02] <minibnz> a double jaw vise? where the clamping surfaces are at 90' to each other but still parrallel to the corner.. if you get my drift?
[07:07:26] <minibnz> nos you want a frezznel lens to help you out there instead of a prisim.
[07:07:31] <toastyde1th> modular vise
[07:07:44] <nos> minibnz: diffraction grating?
[07:07:53] <toastyde1th> like this?:
http://www.stevenseng.com/vises/images/ModVise.gif
[07:07:57] <minibnz> thats the real deal :)
[07:08:37] <miss0r> toastyde1th: something like that yeah
[07:08:49] <minibnz> a difrraction grating... that way the reflecting light bands up better for capture.. and you will need a global shutter camera too
[07:08:56] <toastyde1th> if you can talk more about the features or describe it I can point you in a better direction
[07:09:21] <nos> minibnz: right... a CCD. Maybe from a flat bed scanner?
[07:09:35] <minibnz> nice
[07:10:13] <toastyde1th> flatbed scanners are ideal for that, actually
[07:10:16] <miss0r> I was hoping for two sets of jaws. One to be tightened down to the table of my mill, using 12mm bolts in t-slot nuts. the other end should be tightened in place the same way, but it also needs to be able to push the workpeice in the direction of the other jay to tighten it in place like that.
[07:10:19] <minibnz> that would work pretty well.. if you can keep a flash arc going with out blowing up you probably could use a slow one..
[07:10:27] <toastyde1th> b/c if you're using a diffraction grating, you get much better resolution with a long, single-pixel ccd
[07:10:37] <toastyde1th> versus an itty bitty one
[07:10:58] <toastyde1th> the best resolution is obvs just using a movable slit and a photomultiplier
[07:11:10] <minibnz> oh yeah. the flat bed sensor is a good idea..
[07:12:15] <toastyde1th> the quality of the grating is surprisingly important tho
[07:12:18] <toastyde1th> just keep that in mind
[07:12:31] <minibnz> a a4 page can be scanned at 600-1200dpi and is usually 7inches or so long.. so thats what 4000 -8000 pixels in a line
[07:12:41] <toastyde1th> ya
[07:12:46] <minibnz> wide..
[07:13:28] <minibnz> wonder if you could use that for a Z axis scale on a 3d printer..
[07:13:29] <miss0r> toastyde1th: I even think the one I saw pulled the workpeice closer to the table while clamping
[07:13:30] <nos> There are also film scanners with very high resolution...
[07:13:55] <toastyde1th> miss0r, that's actually fairly common feature of most vises, they just don't look like they're doing it
[07:14:02] <minibnz> yeah but unwanted combo printers are easy to find..
[07:14:10] <toastyde1th> also a wedge lock modular vise is probably what you're thinking about
[07:14:13] <nos> *nod*
[07:14:25] <toastyde1th> http://leaderchuck.com/media/mmxz.jpg
[07:14:47] <toastyde1th> that center jaw, when you tighten the bolt, pushes the jaws out and draws them down
[07:14:58] <miss0r> yeah. but without the base. it needs to utilize the mill table
[07:15:06] <toastyde1th> yeah, they exist in both forms
[07:15:11] <toastyde1th> both on a rail and plain bolts
[07:15:46] <toastyde1th> but you basically have to just google "modular vise" until you find one with the particular options you want (rail/table, then jaw closing mechanism)
[07:16:59] <toastyde1th> but also don't knock the rails, they're reeeely nice
[07:17:01] <minibnz> i am going to get my mate to mill a slot in the under side of my vise at 90 and 45' so i can use a parallel to align it on my bed easy as :)
[07:17:02] <toastyde1th> for large parts
[07:17:09] <miss0r> alright. am doing so at the moment. I guess I was just hoping for a more specific name for what I want in particular, as in; not looking at too much before getting to what I want
[07:17:10] <nos> food time
[07:17:17] <toastyde1th> b/c the rails can be had at any length, you can cover a table with rails
[07:17:26] <toastyde1th> and you don't have to retram the vise every time you change positions
[07:17:35] <miss0r> indeed :) This is just easyer for storage/handeling
[07:18:05] <_methods> most vises come with a key slot already
[07:18:17] <minibnz> might see about a long t nut and drop some grub screws in for the alignment block
[07:18:30] <_methods> and they never work worth a shit
[07:18:30] <minibnz> mine didn't
[07:18:48] <_methods> just drop your vise on the table and sweep it in
[07:18:58] <_methods> it's good practice
[07:19:35] <minibnz> at the moment i put a bit of tool steel in the chuck (collets on the way) then run that along the vise face back and forth until it touches all the way along..
[07:19:40] <toastyde1th> keyslot is okay but rails are indexed every .060 or so
[07:19:50] <miss0r> if I remember correctly the vice I saw once was basicaly two angles meeting, so that when you tightened the vertical bolt in the vice end it would push/drag the workpeice in one motion. in other words: I was hoping for a cheap solution :) (I may end up machining my own)
[07:19:55] <toastyde1th> the rails tend to be more accurate than a keyed vise, and they're much much larger capacity
[07:20:10] <_methods> a subplate is the way to go if you're going to be doing lots of repetitive setups and you want to do quick vise changeovers
[07:20:15] <toastyde1th> and yeah for that kind of thing I recommend just making it, b/c they're actually really expensive
[07:20:22] <_methods> but for your avg hobbyist there is really no need for all that
[07:20:32] <toastyde1th> you don't want to be spending like 200 bucks for a stupid pair of wedges
[07:20:37] <_methods> just drop the vise on and run an indicator across the fixed jaw
[07:20:38] <toastyde1th> esp on the floating end of the vise
[07:20:55] <minibnz> miss0r are you thinking of a v block on the side?
[07:21:42] <toastyde1th> minibnz, think of an adjustable parallel
[07:21:57] <toastyde1th> but stood on its side
[07:21:58] <minibnz> ahh ok
[07:22:27] <miss0r> it is because I want to facemill a 250x500mm plate in one setup. and my magnet table is too small for that workpeice
[07:22:56] <toastyde1th> https://awwapp.com/s/8c3b5e7e-1e9e-4cbf-8d60-ee2923435ce8/
[07:23:01] <toastyde1th> it looks like this shitty drawing
[07:23:10] <miss0r> indeed
[07:23:12] <toastyde1th> bottom part is fixed, the top part floats and gets drawn in by the bolt
[07:23:40] <beikeland> anyone using g-code-ripper (
http://www.scorchworks.com/Gcoderipper/gcoderipper.html )? Tempted to try it to do some cuts before I get my machine squared properly
[07:25:01] <miss0r> it is somewhat an annoyance to me, that I can't find a single cheap chinese rip-off version of what I need. :)... but probally faster machining it myself anyway
[07:25:07] <minibnz> beikeland is that a windows only program?
[07:25:20] <minibnz> it says python but im not sure..
[07:25:25] <toastyde1th> i'm not sure if linuxcnc has this
[07:25:37] <beikeland> minibnz: its python, have it running over X now
[07:25:41] <toastyde1th> but most machine controls have coordinate transformations where you don't really need to move your g-code around
[07:25:46] <toastyde1th> you just change the x/y axis
[07:25:50] <toastyde1th> to sit at an angle
[07:26:01] <toastyde1th> (you'd have to read the docs to see what options linuxcnc has)
[07:26:05] <minibnz> nice might play i have the 4th axis and have to manually code it..
[07:26:12] <beikeland> it has an autolevel feature; probes surface workpiece and adjust g-code acordingly
[07:26:15] <toastyde1th> iirc I believe it does, and does it in a cool way
[07:26:26] <minibnz> its ok for gears and screws but other things could be good.
[07:28:14] <minibnz> i was tempted to see what would happen if i just swapped X with A :)
[07:28:48] <minibnz> i could draw my gear as a standard sin wave on the X axis and sed x for a and hit play :)
[07:29:56] <toastyde1th> why a sine
[07:31:01] <toastyde1th> nvm going to bed goodnight all!
[07:31:33] <miss0r> toastyde1th: I found exactly what I am looking for:
http://www.norelem.de/de/en/Products/Product-overview/Flexible-standard-component-system/Clamp-straps-Clamping-devices/Vice-jaws-with-wedge-clamp-tension-nuts-and-screws/T-slot-clamps.html Only problem now is finding a cheap knockoff
[07:32:21] <jthornton> make some
[07:33:06] <miss0r> I think I will :) the problem is, I will never get my acual project done when I have to make new tools all the time :)
[07:33:15] <XXCoder> how does that work
[07:33:15] <minibnz> toastyde1th if i use a sin wave the lobes come out round its the best way i can think of to get nice neat 2mm teeth with the 2mm cutter..
[07:33:53] <_methods> tslot toe clamp
[07:34:03] <_methods> you probably won't find a chinese knock off of them
[07:34:11] <_methods> they seem to be fairly far behind in workholding
[07:34:17] <jthornton> I have the same problem, start a project and have to find/do/make a dozen things to get going
[07:34:44] <minibnz> XXCoder was that to me?
[07:35:05] <XXCoder> miss0r. sorry :)
[07:35:08] <minibnz> k
[07:35:38] <miss0r> XXCoder: basically it is a wedge that you pull down to create vice effect... horrible explaination :D
[07:36:04] <XXCoder> cool. guess screw down and it pushes out
[07:36:10] <_methods> it's a tslot version of a low profile miteebite
[07:36:16] <archivist> minibnz, the correct involute curve can be generated in linuxcnc, it is a straight line function
[07:36:21] <miss0r> indeed. also it sort of drags the workpeice towards the table a bit
[07:37:02] <_methods> you could use a knife edge clamp
[07:37:07] <_methods> bery easy and cheap to reproduce
[07:37:14] <minibnz> archivist i was just going to use solid works to get it into a dxf then dxf to gcode it then swap the X axis for A axis the scale might need some working
[07:37:21] <_methods> would do the same thing and all you would need is a tnut
[07:37:31] <_methods> http://www.miteebite.com/products/knife-edge-clamps/
[07:37:55] <archivist> minibnz, why do you like doing it wrong :)
[07:38:22] <miss0r> _methods: I see the picture, but I have no idea how it works :S
[07:38:28] <XXCoder> nice
[07:38:39] <XXCoder> wonder if it exists for m8 vareity
[07:38:47] <XXCoder> nope
[07:38:54] <minibnz> dang.. i wants too...
[07:38:58] <minibnz> gimmie..
[07:38:59] <miss0r> _methods: ahh. I see. you can't do that with a t-slot thou
[07:39:13] <minibnz> no you need a little plate
[07:39:14] <miss0r> it seems it needs a pretty sltable mount point
[07:39:14] <XXCoder> miss0r: you can
[07:39:32] <XXCoder> T nut in approate screw size
[07:39:47] <minibnz> or the right height tnut :)
[07:39:49] <XXCoder> though it cant preserve reference
[07:40:07] <XXCoder> no problem if you use stops
[07:40:36] <minibnz> but a small plate around one of them would keep your stock up off the deck that littl bit so you can face it without hitting the deck :)
[07:40:42] <_methods> you might have to modify a tnut a bit
[07:40:54] <_methods> or make a small spacer plate
[07:41:05] <_methods> but much easier to fabricate than that other clamp
[07:41:12] <minibnz> a bit of 3mm alu would work well
[07:41:24] <miss0r> yeah. but then i'd need a spacer plate for each of my future projects?
[07:42:04] <minibnz> really how is making the offset bolt easier do you have a burnishing tool or machine to cut the hex.. you luck bastard?
[07:42:30] <_methods> id just use an oversize socket head capscrew
[07:42:36] <minibnz> i wish i had a burnishing tool.
[07:42:37] <_methods> ad turn it eccentrically in the lathe
[07:43:03] <minibnz> i suppose you dont need much movement..
[07:43:10] <_methods> no not at all
[07:43:26] <minibnz> the tslot does all that :)
[07:43:26] <_methods> they generate considerable clamping force with little movement
[07:44:32] <miss0r> I must admit I am a bit sceptical :) that doesn't sound like alot of holding power
[07:44:34] <minibnz> need titanium teeth :) the gold bits in that linkm
[07:45:14] <minibnz> lateral seems like enough but if you have a bit grab and pull up do they survive or throw a chuck of alu across the room...
[07:46:10] <miss0r> heh. at the moment I have a 60kg steel workpeice.. I wouldn't want that to come flying :)
[07:46:56] <_methods> what are you decking it with?
[07:47:06] <_methods> i doubt your mill will throw a plate that big anywhere
[07:47:37] <_methods> that thing is a monster
[07:48:20] <miss0r> I think it will stay :) I am hitting it with a 80mm indexable mill, at aprox 4.5HP
[07:52:31] <_methods> nice
[07:52:34] <_methods> that's a big cutter
[07:52:49] <_methods> how much material do you have to remove?
[08:41:31] <minibnz> there is a youtube channel nyc cnc that raves on about that style of fly cutter he calls it his superfly cutter and it chews the metal in his tormach..
[08:45:30] <jthornton> I have a superfly
[08:46:50] <minibnz> i jsut purchased a normal tool steel style fly cutter set for $39 at the tool shop.. my mill can really only drive the smallest one.. its about 16mm
[08:47:03] <minibnz> the manual says 30mm but they must be toking...
[08:47:52] <archivist> or make your own
[08:48:12] <minibnz> i think i did some damage in the gearbox cuz there is a noise at high speeds... iordered steel replacements which should be here tommorrow.. its a x2 clone rebadged as a HM10
[08:48:29] <minibnz> should have went belts..
[08:48:34] <minibnz> but meh..
[08:55:42] <__rob> what do you guys do when you need to drill through close to the edge of the part
[08:55:47] <__rob> so as not to drill into the parallels
[08:55:58] <__rob> tap them out after setup ?
[08:56:11] <__rob> or is that likely to disturb the part
[08:56:18] <_methods> you could use wavy parallels
[08:56:25] <__rob> dont have any
[08:56:29] <_methods> and align them to miss the hole
[08:56:40] <__rob> also theres 4 holes
[08:56:45] <_methods> maybe space the paralles off the jaw
[08:56:48] <__rob> chances the waves line up is small
[08:56:57] <minibnz> thats what the wavey ones are for..
[08:57:08] <_methods> other option is to use machinable jaws
[08:57:12] <_methods> then it won't matter
[08:58:06] <archivist> get the clamping right so you know it is safe to drill through
[08:58:17] <_methods> or if all the holes are around the edges of the part stack up some parallels in the middle
[08:58:32] <_methods> any number of ways to skin that cat
[08:58:34] <__rob> well yea ,but my parallels are nearly the lenght of the jaws
[08:58:53] <_methods> find some material and deck it down into a parallel
[08:59:02] <_methods> make your own "parallel
[08:59:22] <__rob> yea, might just do that
[08:59:37] <__rob> basically what I was really wanting to know is if tapping them out is a bad idea
[08:59:41] <__rob> seems like it is to me
[08:59:47] <_methods> tapping the parallel?
[08:59:54] <__rob> hammer
[08:59:54] <_methods> you'll often not put them back in the same spot
[09:00:01] <_methods> oh
[09:00:19] <__rob> nudging them out of hte vice after I've clamped the part
[09:00:29] <_methods> oh sure but watch out
[09:00:33] <__rob> seems like it may well disturb the part and beat the point..
[09:00:34] <_methods> they'll often move during machining
[09:00:45] <_methods> if you do make sure you use a parallel keeper
[09:01:02] <_methods> i often use a small piece of bandstrapping to make a custom parallel keeper
[09:01:21] <_methods> since it's usually laying around most shops
[09:02:07] <_methods> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f21/96838d1389846254-keep-metal-strapping-parallel-bars-parallel_bar_spreader_3.jpg
[09:02:10] <_methods> like that
[09:02:19] <_methods> keeps the parallels from shifting during machining
[09:02:32] <__rob> made a right mess of his vice
[09:03:17] <__rob> cool, thanks
[09:03:42] <_methods> yeah that happens in a real shop
[09:03:47] <_methods> people get in a hurry
[09:03:51] <_methods> miss a decimal point lol
[09:03:57] <archivist> war wounds
[09:03:59] <__rob> yup no doubt
[09:04:04] <_methods> your vise jaws get some character lol
[09:04:11] <_methods> better the vise than the table
[09:05:00] <_methods> I DO NOT recommend using those for a real production setup
[09:05:05] <_methods> only for small run
[09:05:23] <_methods> and keep an eye on your parallels to make sure they don't shift between clampings and during operations
[09:08:31] <Tom_itx> morning
[09:09:08] <Tom_itx> a trick is to use sticky tape on the backside of them
[09:11:30] <Tom_itx> safer than having a band of metal flipping around in the machine
[09:14:49] <os1r1s> To carve the oil channels in the ways of a PM25MV (G0704), do you think I can get by with using a drill press and a moving vise?
[09:16:38] <minibnz> oh i reckon you would get good enough with a dremel
[09:17:08] <minibnz> tape down some strips of scrap to keep your lines straighter and you wont kill a drill press
[09:18:17] <minibnz> i have a diamond disc i was tempted to hit mine with today but decided agaisnt it.. no oil feeds yet so it will only hurt
[09:18:18] <_methods> it's just cast iron and chinese cast iron at that
[09:18:27] <_methods> a screwdriver should do the trick lol
[09:18:47] <PetefromTn_> I used my mill for my RF45 but there were parts that were harder to fixture up so for those I just used a die grinder with a cutoff wheel and went slow and careful making the slots. Layout the lines with a sharpie. Then carefully stone the surfaces to knock down any raised burrs from either process...
[09:18:58] <archivist> oil is a bit to good for one of those
[09:20:05] <_methods> lol
[09:20:51] <archivist> or hand engrave with a graver
[09:21:46] <archivist> must try that in cast iron, have done it on brass
[09:39:48] <os1r1s> A dremel grind blade would be easy
[09:41:14] <archivist> use a burr or cutting tool so you done leave grit in the ways
[09:41:21] <archivist> dont
[09:42:22] <archivist> I have grooved steel with a dremel
[09:42:50] <Loetmichel2> hmmm... my wife just asked me... (she is writing a book) how much would a '95 Firebird transam v8 cost in germany in 2007? is 14'900 eur a realistic price?
[09:43:11] <Loetmichel2> (for a sleazy backyard car dealer)
[09:47:01] <PetefromTn_> they don't let Germans have 95 Firebird Transams they are FAR too manly for them ;)
[09:47:09] <malcom2073> Lol
[09:47:25] <PetefromTn_> :D
[09:47:31] <malcom2073> My wife has a trans am
[09:47:46] <malcom2073> She likes it :)
[09:47:50] <malcom2073> point and case
[09:48:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah but your from beligium or something right that doesn't count
[09:48:45] <Loetmichel2> PetefromTn_: i have an older one in my mobile.de watchlist for 3500 now
[09:48:53] <Loetmichel2> so its not like you cant buy them here
[09:49:06] <malcom2073> Lol, I'm from amish country
[09:49:08] <Loetmichel2> i just have no idea what a car dealer in germany would hace called in 2007
[09:49:20] <malcom2073> Rural PA
[09:49:21] <malcom2073> usa
[09:49:34] <archivist> malcom2073, you have horses pulling it?
[09:49:35] <PetefromTn_> malcom2073 okay you're qualified then ;)
[09:49:48] <malcom2073> archivist: Could, there are enough around
[09:50:16] <Loetmichel2> ... what a sleazy greedy car dealer would have called in 2007 that is ;)
[09:50:20] <archivist> upgraded wooden seats in it
[09:51:45] <Loetmichel2> i would totally buy that one as my "third/Fun" car if i had the garage space to store it for the winter... ->
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=210331144
[09:51:54] <PetefromTn_> you can probably get a holden/Pontiac GTO there much less masculine :D :D :D
[09:52:38] <Loetmichel2> these "targa" roofs are called "erdbeerkörbchen" in germany...
[09:52:39] <PetefromTn_> Ooh it's KITT!!
[09:52:49] <Loetmichel2> yes it is ;)
[09:52:57] <Loetmichel2> only in lilac ;)
[09:53:05] <PetefromTn_> I actually used to love the Formula Firebird from that era
[09:53:20] <PetefromTn_> with tee tops
[09:54:30] <archivist> that thing has very low power for the cylinder capacity
[09:54:38] <PetefromTn_> sure does
[09:54:44] <archivist> typical yank junk
[09:54:46] <PetefromTn_> but hey you can fix that part
[09:54:58] <PetefromTn_> Oh where is it you're from again?
[09:55:12] <archivist> over here
[09:55:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah thats what I figured
[09:55:57] <Loetmichel2> archivist: TBH i searched for one with the small engine... because the V8 eats waaaay to much fuel
[09:56:11] <PetefromTn_> GASP!!!
[09:56:19] <PetefromTn_> :D
[09:56:55] <Loetmichel2> and the american suspension means that yu cant drive fast with it anyways... so why have more horsepower if you cant use it?
[09:57:04] <PetefromTn_> but of course
[09:57:21] <archivist> E type will whup its ass
[09:57:28] <PetefromTn_> so why the hell would you want one of those pieces of shit then?
[09:57:36] <PetefromTn_> BAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA
[09:57:43] <PetefromTn_> you mean that gorgeous Etype
[09:57:48] <PetefromTn_> the one that never runs?
[09:58:24] <archivist> worth too much money these days to use them properly
[09:58:26] <PetefromTn_> the one with wiring this side of a kids electronics experiment
[09:59:04] <user__> hi there, how can I check if this component is in Linuxcnc?
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/47-hal-examples/27714-emis-smc-800-1500-support
[09:59:49] <PetefromTn_> But I MUST say that it is by far one of the most beautiful designs ever conceived of by man ;)
http://uncrate.com/p/2011/05/eagle-jaguar-e-type-speedster-xl.jpg
[10:00:01] <Loetmichel2> archivist: you mean the car company thats owned by the indian tata motors?
[10:00:27] <archivist> it is now unfortunately
[10:00:59] <archivist> by the way I have a pile of Jag engine test records from the factory :)
[10:01:42] <Loetmichel2> i like jaguars. but having repaired a few x type and e-types i dont want to own or drive them. just look at them is fine with me ,)
[10:02:02] <PetefromTn_> that remake of the car must certainly be amazing to drive. Everything the original had in regards to the beautiful styling and great handling, but with modern tech and engine that is assumably reliable.
[10:02:25] <Loetmichel2> i am with PetefromTn_ there, the wiring in these is a nightmare
[10:02:29] <PetefromTn_> apparently they are completely hand built and insanely expensive
[10:02:59] <Sync> PetefromTn_: well the handling is mediocre compared to modern cars
[10:03:05] <PetefromTn_> http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/eagle-e-type-speedster-coming-to-2011-salon-prive-35551_2.jpg Just look at it tho ;)
[10:03:33] <Loetmichel2> PetefromTn_: "dad ass" ;)
[10:03:37] <Loetmichel2> dat
[10:03:55] <PetefromTn_> https://hunterbuur.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/eagle-speedster-jaguar-e-type-photo-559355-s-986x603.jpg
[10:03:59] <PetefromTn_> and how
[10:04:40] <PetefromTn_> http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Jaguar/Eagle-Jaguar-E-Type-Speedster-11.jpg
[10:05:46] <PetefromTn_> http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m66o9866iK1qapwfro1_1280.jpg It looks ALMOST as good as this....;)
[10:06:22] <Loetmichel2> hihi
[10:07:54] <user__> i guess its not included. can someone tell me if following the instructions here is the way to go to add this .comp to linuxcnc?
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/17641/smc.comp http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
[10:28:41] <malcom2073> Heh, I love the "power per cylinder" argument.
[10:28:47] <malcom2073> If I wanted a turbo, I'd get a god damn turbo
[10:28:48] <malcom2073> :P
[10:30:20] <PetefromTn_> MMmmmmhhhhhh TURBOOooooooo :D
[10:30:46] <malcom2073> I don't drive chevy v8's cause they're the most power you can get in the smallest package :P
[10:30:50] <archivist> my honda 50cc moped had more specific output
[10:31:04] <malcom2073> I drive them because you can't beat the dollar for fun value
[10:32:15] <PetefromTn_> a guy brought in a mildly built GTO the other day that has nitrous on it. It made 420 on the dyno and then they turned on the juice and it was spinning on the dyno despite our best efforts LOL
[10:32:34] <PetefromTn_> it made like 628 or something like that spinning
[10:38:41] <PetefromTn_> pretty impressed with the Maritool Variable flute Carbide TIALN coated endmills I got the other day. This particular program is a torture test for a 3/8 endmill. Its a full slot around most of the perimeter of the part. I probably should have tried to make a trochoidal cut around the edge but I figured it would take too long...
[11:01:28] <Tom_itx> that's usually how we profiled parts... with a 3/8 EM full cut
[11:10:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah it works but it eats endmills
[11:12:33] <PetefromTn_> these are mild steel plates that get profile machined all the way around. I machined six yesterday and remachined the other eight on the same endmill and the finish still looked good after. Cutter still feels pretty sharp!
[11:14:00] <JT-Shop> Maritool is good stuff
[11:14:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have yet to get anything from them that I was not happy with really..
[11:42:24] <zeeshan|2> hi guys
[11:42:34] <Tom_itx> hi zee
[11:42:59] <PetefromTn_> hi
[11:43:05] <zeeshan|2> tom did you see the plate im working on for another guy
[11:43:09] <Tom_itx> no
[11:43:10] <zeeshan|2> after iu finish this vape bodies
[11:43:16] <zeeshan|2> i need some advice on it
[11:43:26] <zeeshan|2> my plan on currently machining it seems too complex.
[11:43:28] <Tom_itx> i got lots of that
[11:43:29] <zeeshan|2> i might farm it out
[11:43:52] <Tom_itx> pic
[11:44:00] <zeeshan|2> getin
[11:44:28] <zeeshan|2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bh8dwp1or7lfeyq/LED-CURVE-PLATE.PDF?dl=0
[11:44:33] <zeeshan|2> thats the plate
[11:44:47] <zeeshan|2> its been rolled
[11:44:54] <zeeshan|2> and ive made it oversized by 1/4"
[11:45:01] <zeeshan|2> but its kind of an oval right now after rolling
[11:45:07] <zeeshan|2> when you look at it from the top view, cause its stretched
[11:45:16] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/Hhn0Y5e.png
[11:45:25] <zeeshan|2> the plate fits inside thisround ring
[11:45:28] <zeeshan|2> which is also been rolled
[11:45:33] <zeeshan|2> the id of that is 34.50 "
[11:45:40] <zeeshan|2> er
[11:45:41] <zeeshan|2> 34"
[11:45:50] <Tom_itx> got room to machine it?
[11:45:54] <zeeshan|2> yes
[11:45:57] <zeeshan|2> the question is
[11:46:04] <pink_vampire> zeeshan|2: what is that?
[11:46:04] <zeeshan|2> how in the hell do i machine the cicumference of that plate
[11:46:07] <Tom_itx> make a wood mount plate for it
[11:46:08] <zeeshan|2> so it's back to round
[11:46:13] <zeeshan|2> on my machine !
[11:46:18] <zeeshan|2> its only got 15.7" travel
[11:46:22] <zeeshan|2> my friends machine can only do 24x48"
[11:46:36] <Tom_itx> so you don't want a projected round rather a true round
[11:46:40] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking some sort of jig to allow it to spin..
[11:46:56] <zeeshan|2> yes tom
[11:47:19] <zeeshan|2> i have a small table that spins
[11:47:24] <zeeshan|2> its only 12" in diameter..
[11:47:25] <Tom_itx> so the vertical edge follows the curve
[11:47:30] <Tom_itx> the wood backer would work
[11:47:33] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of attaching some long flat bar to it
[11:47:54] <zeeshan|2> so it can be overhanging off th e mill table
[11:47:57] <Tom_itx> then run the cutter around the profile
[11:48:01] <zeeshan|2> and then i manually spin it by hand slowly and machine it
[11:48:39] <Tom_itx> you don't have enough patience for that
[11:48:43] <zeeshan|2> remember
[11:48:44] <pink_vampire> I'm on Discord
https://discord.gg/0oAimSwFHdSEFl7Y
[11:48:47] <zeeshan|2> i can also do it in horizontal mode..
[11:48:50] <zeeshan|2> i just need a way to spin it
[11:49:08] <zeeshan|2> i really dont :P
[11:49:11] <Tom_itx> just mill half and turn it around ofr the other half
[11:49:16] <zeeshan|2> i wish i knew someone with a real cnc router
[11:49:25] <zeeshan|2> that could do it in one pass
[11:49:27] <zeeshan|2> prettty much
[11:49:45] <Tom_itx> make your backer with a center that you can rotate it about
[11:50:20] <Tom_itx> do half, rotate it 180 do the other half
[11:50:43] <archivist> I have no problem hanging a rotary off to one side to make oversized round items
[11:50:55] <zeeshan|2> archivist: got any pics?
[11:50:57] <zeeshan|2> of it
[11:51:21] <Tom_itx> you could even make the backer a vaccuum fixture
[11:51:24] <archivist> my usual 5 axis has tiny travels
[11:52:18] <archivist> do you have any proper rotary table yet (manual?)
[11:52:25] <zeeshan|2> no
[11:52:41] <archivist> time to beg steal or borrow
[11:52:52] <zeeshan|2> i think im going to farm it out to another person i know thru a friend
[11:52:55] <zeeshan|2> who has a hbm
[11:53:00] <zeeshan|2> they can do this pretty easily i'd think
[11:53:25] <pink_vampire> I'm working on photo realistic renderings - soo hate to do it, but I like to see the results..
[11:55:56] <zeeshan|2> http://www.fototime.com/3BFBF5A8D73CC98/standard.jpg
[11:55:59] <zeeshan|2> http://www.fototime.com/D9A1E798673D9F8/standard.jpg
[11:56:02] <zeeshan|2> this guy has it easy though
[11:56:07] <zeeshan|2> the plate he's machining is flat :P
[11:56:57] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, profile a ring and bolt that to a plate
[11:57:07] <Tom_itx> instead of profiling the whole plate
[11:57:26] <Tom_itx> use clamps around the perimeter and remove them as needed
[11:57:38] <zeeshan|2> whatcha mean
[11:57:50] <zeeshan|2> you mean
[11:57:53] <Tom_itx> 1/2" wide ring the profile of the part
[11:57:55] <zeeshan|2> curved rings
[11:57:56] <Tom_itx> perimeter
[11:57:58] <Tom_itx> yes
[11:57:58] <zeeshan|2> that are sit under the part
[11:58:08] <zeeshan|2> hm
[11:58:08] <Tom_itx> one side flat, other side profiled
[11:58:18] <zeeshan|2> i'd need to sets i think
[11:58:20] <Tom_itx> save alot of fixture time
[11:58:22] <zeeshan|2> cause one out need to go on the top
[11:58:24] <zeeshan|2> ?
[11:58:32] <Tom_itx> just use clamps for that
[11:58:39] <Tom_itx> i suppose you could make 2 sets
[11:58:48] <zeeshan|2> tom i think i might expand on your idea there
[11:58:58] <zeeshan|2> ill WELD the rings temporarily on the bottom
[11:59:03] <zeeshan|2> or instead of rings
[11:59:11] <zeeshan|2> it could be a flat bar that spans across the bottom of the plate
[11:59:15] <zeeshan|2> and bolt that to the rotary table
[11:59:30] <zeeshan|2> so imagine a cross that is under the plate
[11:59:37] <zeeshan|2> with a hole i nthe center
[12:00:03] <zeeshan|2> now i really need a rotary table :)
[12:00:14] <Tom_itx> got a test monday... i'm so scared :D
[12:00:22] <Tom_itx> not..
[12:00:26] <zeeshan|2> haha no ure not
[12:00:26] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:00:43] <Tom_itx> i feel bad for the ole guy that sits next to me though
[12:00:54] <Tom_itx> he was a manual machinist for years
[12:01:00] <Tom_itx> he's just not gettin this
[12:01:14] <zeeshan|2> sucker!
[12:01:14] <zeeshan|2> :D
[12:01:15] <zeeshan|2> haha
[12:01:16] <zeeshan|2> jk
[12:03:34] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/kitchener-waterloo/rotary-table/1098807113?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[12:03:37] <zeeshan|2> i bet that weighs like 200lb
[12:03:37] <zeeshan|2> :/
[12:06:04] <Tom_itx> how thick is the plate?
[12:07:06] <zeeshan|2> 1/4"
[12:08:09] <Tom_itx> i was gonna say, spin it around a belt sander but that's kinda thick for that
[12:08:15] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[12:08:24] <archivist> angle grinder
[12:09:02] <Tom_itx> you farm this out, you lose credibility
[12:09:14] <zeeshan|2> why
[12:09:21] <zeeshan|2> person doesnt need to know
[12:09:22] <Tom_itx> it's not that difficult
[12:09:27] <zeeshan|2> :)
[12:09:29] <zeeshan|2> im lazy!
[12:09:40] <Tom_itx> go mill some more turds
[12:09:47] <zeeshan|2> im pretty positive im going to use the flat bar method
[12:09:49] <zeeshan|2> it works in my head
[12:10:22] <zeeshan|2> i can resist 20lb of force my hands
[12:10:23] <zeeshan|2> as it's cutting
[12:17:22] <aventtini6> helloo hellloo
[12:17:25] <aventtini6> zee hwatup
[12:17:28] <aventtini6> whatup
[12:18:50] <zeeshan|2> hi
[12:19:23] <aventtini6> man i need to change the microns
[12:19:33] <aventtini6> they work like shit
[12:19:40] <aventtini6> 1300mm/mm
[12:20:00] <zeeshan|2> ?!?
[12:21:39] <aventtini6> i made some part and i lost time because machine brakes in corners
[12:22:09] <aventtini6> i dont understand why
[12:22:17] <aventtini6> but nex is to go to 2.7
[12:22:21] <aventtini6> just to test
[12:22:36] <aventtini6> but i suspect motors are to old to be fast
[12:23:25] <zeeshan|2> 2.7 should fix that
[12:24:08] <aventtini6> what i need to upgrade on te pins
[12:24:08] <aventtini6> ?
[12:24:20] <zeeshan|2> i think there wasw one minor change
[12:24:21] <zeeshan|2> i had to do
[12:25:08] <zeeshan|2> its in the upgrade instructions
[12:25:08] <aventtini6> this week i start on the wf72
[12:25:21] <aventtini6> problem is i have a 6i25
[12:25:23] <aventtini6> :(
[12:25:42] <aventtini6> i was thinking there are som problems whit the pc
[12:34:06] <gregcnc> if you're using Mesa machine speed shouldn't be very dependent on PC speed?
[12:36:11] <aventtini6> i think so
[12:37:28] <aventtini6> maybe pc is to slow
[12:37:41] <gregcnc> what is the PC?
[12:39:55] <gregcnc> Your not using any adaptive engagement or feed rates on internal corners in your CAM?
[12:42:27] <gregcnc> Lower F being issued by the CAM would be right there in the gcode
[12:42:34] <zeeshan|2> anyone here an avid hsmworks user?
[12:42:43] <gregcnc> I use it
[12:42:56] <zeeshan|2> can you do a transform tool path in it?
[12:42:59] <gregcnc> HSMXPRESS
[12:43:03] <zeeshan|2> so program one part
[12:43:11] <zeeshan|2> and translate it like into a 100x100 grid
[12:43:21] <zeeshan|2> and then it automatically outputs subroutines?
[12:44:36] <maxcnc> hi all from the carnaval mad germany
[12:46:24] <maxcnc> aventtini6: ?
[12:58:49] <mitch_idle> greetings back from a carnival free town in southern germany ;-)
[12:59:36] <maxcnc> oh you may see it after wendsday
[13:00:04] <maxcnc> nothing here like the brazil one
[13:00:35] <maxcnc> and all on one wekend including superbowl party tonight
[13:00:50] <maxcnc> may close the shop tomorrow morning ;-)
[13:00:56] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 just rewrite it 10000 times
[13:01:05] <zeeshan|2> =]
[13:01:08] <gregcnc> I've used pattern before, but I'm not sure how to get that to post as a sub. I think it's a post feature.
[13:02:09] <maxcnc> greg 2 or 3D
[13:02:27] <maxcnc> like plasma 2D
[13:04:25] <zeeshan|2> greg:
[13:04:31] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/rBTaPcv.png
[13:04:36] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/1AsxzWQ.png
[13:04:56] <zeeshan|2> something like that
[13:12:04] <maxcnc> Gn8 and good Superbowl night to you all
[13:12:19] <gregcnc> I don't have any of that. I'd end up writing the main program manually to call the subs if I had memory issues, but 100 parts.....
[13:13:09] <zeeshan|2> hm
[13:13:33] <aventtini6> good web site
http://passion-usinages.forumgratuit.org/f83-fraiseuses-cn
[13:13:41] <aventtini6> all the manuals you need
[13:14:41] <zeeshan|2> no manuals for mikron :(
[13:14:44] <zeeshan|2> http://passion-usinages.forumgratuit.org/t1748-mikron-wf21
[13:15:26] <aventtini6> i have all of them
[13:15:27] <aventtini6> man
[13:15:29] <aventtini6> wf21
[13:15:32] <zeeshan|2> send me
[13:15:33] <zeeshan|2> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:15:36] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[13:15:41] <aventtini6> i need to scan them
[13:15:46] <zeeshan|2> oh
[13:15:50] <aventtini6> no problem
[13:16:00] <aventtini6> i will do it in the morning
[13:16:04] <zeeshan|2> is it not on the website?
[13:16:38] <aventtini6> i did not check it
[13:16:46] <aventtini6> but i see there are lots o manuals
[13:17:03] <zeeshan|2> ah
[13:25:52] <Tom_itx> anybody use pn editor?
[13:26:06] <Tom_itx> wondering how to edit the language highlighting
[13:26:12] <zeeshan|2> pn??
[13:26:18] <Tom_itx> programmers notepad
[13:27:30] <zeeshan|2> ah
[13:27:35] <zeeshan|2> i use notepad++ in windows
[13:27:41] <Tom_itx> i think i found it anyway
[15:17:01] <zeeshan|2> YES
[15:17:04] <zeeshan|2> fuck yeS!
[15:24:39] <gregcnc> must be good
[15:25:04] <zeeshan|2> i finally got the multilinear isotropic hardening model workin
[15:25:24] <anomynous> what is that
[15:25:44] <anomynous> if you have a multilinear model, then the model has several lines that are the same line? o.0
[15:25:46] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/vkFUsVi.png
[15:25:55] <zeeshan|2> thats the material im trying to test with my apparatus
[15:26:02] <zeeshan|2> to confirm its working correct
[15:26:17] <zeeshan|2> so i need to find the material size now so im trying to simulate plastic deformation
[15:26:23] <zeeshan|2> (material thickness)
[15:26:26] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/85ht3oh.png
[15:26:47] <zeeshan|2> so now i see that the true strain exceeds .24
[15:26:51] <zeeshan|2> so i know the load is too much
[15:27:05] <zeeshan|2> so i keep increasing material thickness and/or decreasing pressure
[15:27:51] <zeeshan|2> anomynous: multilinear model tries so simulate a real stress-strain curve
[15:27:57] <zeeshan|2> so = to
[15:28:06] <zeeshan|2> by fitting multiple linear sections
[15:30:06] <rhaven> hi there, can anyone help me here, im trying to add a driver to linuxcnc. found here:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/47-hal-examples/27714-emis-smc-800-1500-support
[15:30:24] <rhaven> i added it to /src/hal/drivers and recompiled
[15:31:14] <rhaven> but i dont see the new driver when i start stepconf
[15:32:01] <pink_vampire> hi
[15:32:24] <pink_vampire> what do you think about that?
[15:35:58] <pcw_home> rhaven: Its very unlikely Stepconf checks for available software step/dir I/O drivers
[15:35:59] <pcw_home> you will probably have to hand edit the hal file for that card
[15:36:01] <pcw_home> (I would suggest asking the OP on that thread for a sample hal file)
[15:39:28] <rhaven> pcw_home, is there a page where i can read about how to add drivers to linuxcnc? i have contated the OP, waiting for a reply
[15:39:40] <pcw_home> You could also use stepconf to generate a template, loadrt the smc component instesd of the parallel port
[15:39:42] <pcw_home> and change the stepgen connections to what the OP has provided
[15:39:57] <pcw_home> That is not actually a driver but a hal component
[15:40:58] <pcw_home> since its a realtime hal component, its added with a loadrt statement (look at the first post in the thread you linked to )
[15:42:10] <rhaven> pcw_home the loadrt lines?
[15:42:29] <pcw_home> yes
[15:42:48] <pcw_home> (assuming you have the component installed)
[15:43:30] <rhaven> halcompile --install smc.comp ?
[15:45:18] <pcw_home> yeah
[15:47:00] <rhaven> pcw_home, the 8th post has some details
[15:48:21] <rhaven> could you explain what the loadrt steps do? does it create a configuration?
[15:48:55] <pcw_home> loadrt loads the existing driver/component
[15:50:39] <pcw_home> that is drivers are dynamically loaded by commands in the hal file ( loadrt and loadusr )
[15:51:16] <rhaven> but these are not saved in a configuration ?
[15:51:29] <pcw_home> yes in the hal file
[15:51:45] <rhaven> where can i see the hal file that is created
[15:51:51] <rhaven> wait ok stepback
[15:52:06] <rhaven> i install the smc.comp
[15:52:27] <pcw_home> stepconf creates a hal file ( or you can create one by hand with an editor )
[15:54:59] <pcw_home> There are many components and drivers available to linuxcnc,
[15:55:00] <pcw_home> but only those loaded via loadrt and loadusr commands in the hal file
[15:55:02] <pcw_home> are active
[15:55:13] <rhaven> so i could create the files necessary with stepconf, then edit custom.hal to include smc.comp
[15:57:07] <pcw_home> I would just edit the hal file stepconf creates, no need to complicate things with a added file
[15:57:29] <rhaven> pcw_home, hm yes,
[15:58:00] <rhaven> can i then just copy the contents of smc.comp to the hal file stepconf creates?
[15:58:53] <rhaven> then i need to run the loadrt lines in halcmd, is the component then permanently added?
[16:06:27] <rhaven> pcw_home, sorry i read again what you wrote. I copy the loadrt lines into the hal file stepconf created
[16:06:51] <pcw_home> no smc.com is the source for the component, once you halcompile you loadrt it in your hal file
[16:09:23] <zeeshan|2> i clearly f'ed up when writing modbus driver for the vfds
[16:09:31] <zeeshan|2> when i press e-stop, the component fails
[16:09:37] <zeeshan|2> have to manually reload . hm
[16:09:49] <zeeshan|2> it fails cause it loses communication to the vfds
[16:10:43] <zeeshan|2> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/vfd.py
[16:10:47] <zeeshan|2> no wonder
[16:10:49] <zeeshan|2> its in a try statement :{
[16:21:50] <Tom_itx> that looks goopy
[16:22:55] <zeeshan|2> study for your test !
[16:26:01] <Deejay> gn8
[16:30:14] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i'm still trying to add a language def to PN
[16:30:28] <Tom_itx> i created it but now i need to figure out how to add it to the list
[16:48:39] <Tom_itx> hah figured it out
[17:34:33] <kyle__> Any grbl users in here? Anyone know of a good method to use a servo in grbl?
[17:34:38] <kyle__> My ham-handed-hacks attempting to switch the spindle control to be servo have failed.
[17:35:48] <_methods> lol
[17:43:56] <malcom2073> Use a servo controller that accepts step/dir input?
[17:44:14] <malcom2073> Wait, or do you mean a hobby servo?
[17:44:53] <malcom2073> Also, there may be a grbl chat room somewhere around here
[17:45:34] <malcom2073> Typically, if someone is smart enough to figure out how to run linuxcnc (can turn on a PC), there's no real reason to use grbl :P
[17:51:29] <jdh> be nice.
[17:51:54] <_methods> i was up there by you on friday jdh
[17:51:59] <_methods> had to go to rocky point
[17:53:23] <jdh> wow. nobody ever has to go to rocky point. why?
[17:53:27] <Tom_itx> well crap, it's not working like i'd hoped
[17:53:30] <_methods> auction
[17:53:39] <jdh> superior machine shop?
[17:53:43] <_methods> yeah
[17:53:52] <_methods> i picked up a brown and sharpe #2 for $100
[17:53:54] <jdh> I thought about going but figured it would all go too high
[17:54:10] <_methods> stuff went for weird prices
[17:54:16] <_methods> we were after the key seater
[17:54:52] <_methods> i didn't even see what the cnc's went for
[17:55:06] <jdh> there was a haas lath
[17:55:17] <_methods> yeah they didn't have too much
[17:55:28] <_methods> and it was all in pretty well used condition from what i saw
[17:55:32] <jdh> my wife teaches in rocky point
[17:55:52] <_methods> quite a few shops around there and burgaw
[17:56:01] <_methods> i've been to cardinal metalworks before
[17:56:22] <_methods> we went and got a demo on their turret punches and press brakes
[17:56:25] <jdh> rocky point auto parts is a interesting place to stop
[17:56:35] <_methods> oh yeah?
[17:56:58] <jdh> back room is a walk in gun safe/sales
[17:57:25] <malcom2073> I love big machine auctions, stuff goes for silly cheap near me
[17:57:47] <_methods> yeah they had some big lathes and a nice king 42" vtl
[18:03:08] <_methods> jdh: i'd swing by there on monday and hit them up for stuff that no one picks up
[18:03:19] <kyle__> malcom2073: It's a hobby servo, and I'd love to know of a grbl specific channel, but I know of none.
[18:03:23] <_methods> probably score some material and racks
[18:03:45] * kyle__ doesn't have anything pricey enough to be in the range of real servos.
[18:04:32] <malcom2073> There's no #grbl ?
[18:04:44] <_methods> i talked to the owners and they were trying to get everything out of there by monday or tuesday
[18:04:55] <kyle__> Nope.
[18:04:58] <malcom2073> If it's not something that is supported, it's going to be pretty tough to implement
[18:05:48] <kyle__> Poop. The devs talk about adding it at some point, but it's not in the repo yet.
[18:06:22] <malcom2073> Maybe pester them, show them that someone wants to use it? heh
[18:06:44] <jdh> tempting. I work about 20mins from there
[18:07:14] <_methods> there's usually a lot of stuff that gets left at those things
[18:07:34] <_methods> whenever there is an auction that close to me i always swing by and vulture lol
[18:08:24] <jdh> I'll try to remember to take some cash with me tomorrow
[18:08:38] <jdh> I actually have the newspaper ad sitting here by my KB
[18:09:10] <_methods> i can't wait to get that little horizontal set up
[18:09:18] <_methods> gotta make some room in the garage
[18:09:19] <jdh> what did you get?
[18:09:28] <_methods> brown and sharpe #2
[18:09:29] <_methods> light
[18:10:17] <_methods> nmtb 40 too
[18:10:29] <jdh> oh, cool.. I thought it was a measuring device
[18:10:31] <_methods> toolholders are dirt cheap for nmtb40
[18:10:35] <_methods> no horizontal
[18:10:39] <_methods> manual horizontal
[18:10:56] <_methods> perfect for my garage
[18:10:56] <kyle__> ah well. So, since you seem to be more about big machines, I found a floor standing bridgeport by me for about $2k, supposedly in good working condition. I'm tempted, but know nothing about hwo to evalute price-worthyness or condition. Are there any good guides that can be recommended?
[18:11:00] <_methods> nice and small
[18:11:28] <kyle__> Mill. Should have specified.
[18:11:36] <_methods> yeah hard to say
[18:11:42] <_methods> lots of things can go wrong with them
[18:11:46] <_methods> but they are very common
[18:11:51] <_methods> so it's easy to get parts
[18:11:54] <jdh> worn out ways
[18:12:06] <_methods> yeah
[18:12:16] <_methods> severely damaged bed or worn ways
[18:12:24] <_methods> spindle motor
[18:13:07] <kyle__> Spindle motor should be fairly easy to replace though, even if it's not cheap to replace.... Right?
[18:13:14] <_methods> yeah
[18:13:23] <_methods> most things on a bridgeport are easy to fix
[18:13:25] <jdh> lots of replacement spindles around
[18:13:28] <_methods> except worn ways
[18:13:33] <kyle__> worn ways?
[18:13:53] <_methods> yeah the things the bed slides on
[18:14:00] <_methods> the hardened ways
[18:14:34] <kyle__> Ah ok.
[18:15:22] <_methods> they are so common it's very easy to find out how to fix pretty much any issue
[18:15:50] <_methods> i'm sure you can get on youtube and find a tutorial for basically fixing every aspect of one
[18:16:05] <kyle__> Humm. OK.
[18:16:26] <_methods> but at auction they go for anywhere from $400-5000
[18:16:38] <_methods> depending on what accessories they have
[18:16:56] <kyle__> then it sounds like the biggest problems will be sopusal and transportation.
[18:16:56] <jdh> depends on where the auction is.
[18:17:12] <jdh> they go for more than that around here and not many of them show up
[18:17:21] <kyle__> 400-5k is a pretty big range...
[18:17:31] <kyle__> jdh: Where is here, if I can ask?
[18:17:34] <_methods> well it can go higher than $5k
[18:17:35] <jdh> oh, I saw 400-500
[18:17:51] <jdh> wilmington.nc.us.earth
[18:18:00] <_methods> but like i said it just depends on what modifications are on the machine
[18:18:15] <_methods> jumping jack, DRO, power feeds, column risers
[18:18:28] <_methods> power drawbar
[18:18:51] <jdh> there was a working 9x42 Tree CNC here that was asking $1000. I had spousal and transport issues also.
[18:18:53] <_methods> but a stock series 1 j head i wouldn't pay more than $800 for
[18:19:04] <_methods> unless it was like mint
[18:19:09] <kyle__> Mkay. Thank you.
[18:19:12] <_methods> with scrape marks still on the ways and bed
[18:19:14] * kyle__ nods
[18:21:50] <_methods> yeah it kills me watching deals go on cnc's because i don't have room
[18:22:22] <_methods> one day i'll have some room
[18:56:32] <os1r1s> kyle__ You are looking to control a servo from grbl?
[19:07:44] <CaptHindsight> what's all this talk about a servo controlled gerbil?
[19:07:50] <kyle__> os1r1s: Yes.
[19:07:51] <kyle__> Yes I am.
[19:08:01] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: lol
[19:08:10] <os1r1s> kyle__ Are you looking to control a model servo or a servo motor?
[19:08:11] <kyle__> CaptHindsight: I was attempting to control a (hobby) servo from grbl.
[19:08:25] <kyle__> model I think == hobby?
[19:08:42] <os1r1s> kyle__ There was a fork that supports a single servo
[19:09:34] <os1r1s> kyle__
https://github.com/robottini/grbl-servo
[19:10:12] <kyle__> I don't know how that slipped through all my searches. Thank you SO much.
[19:23:38] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5396917491.html interesting
[19:25:37] <Crom> any good commercials at the superball?
[19:26:05] <_methods> nothing very good so far
[19:34:57] <PetefromTn_> sorry not a fan
[19:35:43] <Crom> neither am I, I'd only watch it for the commercials anyway... It's not my Fandom
[19:36:22] <_methods> i'm just watching it for the commercials
[19:36:26] <PetefromTn_> I did watch Lady Gaga Sing the National Anthem on facebook tho and it was not bad really
[19:36:45] <_methods> lots of commercials for horrible cbs tv shows
[19:36:50] <_methods> kind of a let down
[19:36:54] <Jymmm> lol
[19:37:13] <_methods> every time commercials come up cbs throws in some horrible spot that takes up a bunch of time
[19:37:30] <PetefromTn_> anything for airtime
[19:37:40] <_methods> yeah kinda sad
[19:37:48] <_methods> no one watches syndicated tv shows
[19:38:05] <_methods> these tv companies are so out of touch
[19:38:18] <PetefromTn_> that's because there is no Star Trek ;)
[19:38:30] <bobo> CaptHindsight you hear about the new mosquito viris that has been found in florida. it affects pergnant women and people named Pete
[19:38:39] <Crom> woo I'll go find that.. I'm a bit of a Gaga fan, she does have a good voice
[19:39:09] <_methods> the half time show is about to start
[19:39:16] <_methods> hopin there will be some good commercials there
[19:39:23] <malcom2073> bobo: I heard about that, I heard that petes from the tennessee region are especially suceptable
[19:39:59] <Crom> No Star Trek, no Firefly, no Sliders
[19:40:10] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE Firefly
[19:40:23] <PetefromTn_> that was such a good show before they killed it
[19:40:44] <PetefromTn_> bobo I ain't skeered of no skeeters man :D
[19:41:29] <bobo> they will get you when you sleep
[19:42:09] <malcom2073> Sliders was halariously bad, I loved that show
[19:42:14] <PetefromTn_> meh we don't plan on sleeping outside
[19:42:33] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: *inside
[19:45:34] <_methods> half time
[19:46:24] <_methods> oh surprise surprise another shitty cbs commercial
[19:47:54] <_methods> wtf
[19:48:00] <_methods> now a jeb bush commercial
[19:48:05] <_methods> i'm about to just go to bed
[19:48:15] <_methods> this is the lamest batch of super bowl commercials ever
[19:48:39] <_methods> just watch the funny ones tomorrow on youtube
[19:49:49] <PetefromTn_> up to the highest bidder man
[19:55:30] <Crom> wow Lady Gaga nailed it!
[20:20:03] <minibnz> just mounted a spinle index on my mill.. used a hall effect sensor and placed a magnet into the spindle, drilled hole and epoxied it in.. placed sensor under the motor mount.. appears to work well on the Oscilloscope. gives me a nice square wave of 25hz for full speed.. im not looking for super accuracy just an indicator of speed so i can work out nice feed to spindle to cutter rates
[20:20:20] <minibnz> now i gotta get that signal into linuxcnc..
[20:21:26] <jdh> 1500rpm max?
[20:22:08] <minibnz> sorry that was in low gear.
[20:22:18] <minibnz> jumps tp 50hz in high gear
[20:22:44] <minibnz> dont want to labour up my cpu too much with spindle speed yet.
[20:24:59] <minibnz> dont really see the need to put a slotted wheel on the spindle.. its only a little seig x2
[20:29:14] <jdh> you could do thread milling
[21:07:03] <minibnz> jdh i could also do thread milling pretty easily with gcode and the right cutter :) just program a sprial and you off :) i dont think my motor likes spinning really slow its a brished DC motor, adding a relay is easy to make it go backwards.. just not sure if it will do it
[21:08:32] <zeeshan|2> the bewst part about a production run -- when it's over
[21:08:33] <zeeshan|2> :DDDDDDDDD
[21:08:36] <zeeshan|2> doneeeeeee
[21:24:16] <Sync> ye
[21:26:43] <Sync> zeeshan|2: need some halp, should I develop my own rear wheel disconnect clutch with a motorcycle clutch basket or just buy a haldex and rework it?
[22:05:20] <pink_vampire> hi
[22:05:44] <pink_vampire> I need some help with brushless motor
[22:31:43] <Sync> pink_vampire: what kind of help?
[22:32:47] <pink_vampire> where I can find a motor with very high rpm
[22:32:59] <pink_vampire> but 50 to 100W max.
[22:33:00] <pink_vampire> http://www.ebay.com/itm/60000rpm-1-2KW-Water-cooled-Spindle-Motor-VFD-Inverter-Bracket-Pump-Pipe-New/291524603501?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D3c1f4e6465194367882a31f5e8e11fe0%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D262166579488
[22:33:23] <pink_vampire> this one is very fast but it's 1.2KW
[22:40:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 did you figure out what you're gonna do on that warped plate?
[22:51:00] <Sync> pink_vampire: nakanishi spindle
[22:51:21] <gregcnc> pink_vampire what are you using it for?
[22:52:06] <pink_vampire> I want to work high feed rate with tiny end mills
[22:53:29] <Sync> then you probably want more than 100W
[22:53:58] <Sync> http://www.ebay.com/itm/111589645844
[22:57:44] <Sync> although that thing is basically useless with the collet
[23:00:09] <Sync> http://www.ebay.com/itm/111702680484 I mean, that's not too bad really
[23:00:35] <tcurdt> what speed does one need for aluminium vs wood? or what decides the speed one would be using? (newbie)
[23:07:29] <tcurdt> I guess this has it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_and_feeds
[23:43:32] <XXCoder> on church sign: "Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles, and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children."
[23:43:36] <XXCoder> well that is mean
[23:47:09] <os1r1s> trentster Around?
[23:50:37] <minibnz> i have some cans here i will fedex over :)
[23:52:35] <minibnz> argh... the hal is so damn complicated...... its taken me all day to get half a signal into the halscope.. but now i cant do shit with it.. everytime i try to assign it to a slider or meter it gives me an endless loop of errors.. can be a hal pin.. then you must specify a hal pin.. just make up you damn mind... all i want is to get a RPM reading out on the screen is it that bloody hard...
[23:54:21] <minibnz> is there a default speed meter in linuxcnc or do i have to code one into my python control panel?
[23:55:00] <minibnz> i dont even want to close the loop i just want the number on the screen..
