#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-01-22

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[00:11:28] <bobo__> PetesoontobeinFla sorry you cant use my 3/4 ton chev & trailer . why havenent you talked to ssi about moving stuff?
[00:12:24] <bobo__> he might have some usefull ideas
[00:24:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think a 3/4 ton truck would work actually
[00:29:19] <FloppyDisk5_25> Pete - you said you could move the lathe fairly easily, what kind is it? Just curious...
[00:32:55] <PetefromTn_> sorry my lathe is a Standard Modern CNC
[00:44:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> thanks - was just out looking at my spindle again:-( can't get it to reverse w/ gearchange...
[00:45:07] <FloppyDisk5_25> i need to quick mucking around w/ it and make some parts... unhappy customers.
[02:32:12] <Deejay> moin
[03:35:50] <t4nk216> hii I want emc scaleio driver for openstack kilo version please someone help
[03:36:34] <archivist> emc the storage company?
[03:37:44] <thesaint> hi guys, i need a recommendation for a motherboard to run linuxcnc with a pci slot for a mesa card - what is a modern up to date option? cheers..
[03:38:18] <archivist> thesaint, look in the logs for whatever pcw recommends :)
[03:38:48] <thesaint> archivist, irc logs?
[03:38:53] <archivist> yes
[03:39:26] <thesaint> archivist, ok, will do... thanks.
[03:39:37] <archivist> I have never bought new :)
[03:41:43] <thesaint> i have used older mini itx boards but just got a nice new machine and thought i would try to put something a bit more up to date on it..
[03:42:45] <thesaint> not so easy to find what is the most modern working solution with a pci slot...
[03:54:02] <archivist> bah he fell off irc
[03:56:13] <t4nk216> hii I want emc scaleio driver for openstack kilo version please someone help
[03:56:50] <archivist> t4nk216, is this for the storage company
[03:57:35] * archivist taps the microphone
[03:58:28] <archivist> t4nk216, you are in the wrong place
[04:00:13] <archivist> this channel is linuxcnc we do not support the bully company called emc
[05:48:11] <XXCoder> heh archivist gyuy just left
[05:48:17] <XXCoder> well done
[05:49:04] <archivist> its hard work sometimes
[05:49:06] <XXCoder> why is emc bully though, archivist ?
[05:49:59] <archivist> we were called emc, enhanced machine controller, the lawyers sent letters
[05:50:41] <XXCoder> jeez
[05:50:59] <archivist> we were using the term for a very long time then they went and got the trademark in out category and sent nasty letter
[05:50:59] <XXCoder> reminds me of bricklink. old name was brickbay but ebay thinks they own everything "bay"
[05:55:31] <trentster> howdy all
[05:55:42] <XXCoder> geez
[05:55:51] <XXCoder> this breads like rock.
[05:56:01] <XXCoder> label suggests me to bake it "for more crispy"
[05:56:27] <XXCoder> any more crispy and superman'd have problems lol
[05:56:42] <trentster> Anyone tinkered with creating 3d models for surface textures and/or turning physical objects into 3d models?
[05:57:33] <XXCoder> theres program that uses microsoft 3d thingy to make 3d models
[05:58:35] <XXCoder> kinsect something
[05:59:04] <trentster> ok ill google thanks
[05:59:21] <XXCoder> its basically free if you already has one
[05:59:52] <trentster> kinect?
[06:00:04] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:04:40] <trentster> XXCoder: I want to learn how to make 3d wall panels like this - https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/204023879/wall-panel-3d-model-for-cnc-machining
[06:04:58] <trentster> not sure which is best way to go about it or which software to use
[06:05:00] <XXCoder> that do look cool.
[06:05:12] <XXCoder> there IS art package for cnc
[06:05:16] <XXCoder> forgot name though
[06:06:16] <XXCoder> http://www.artcam.com/
[06:06:23] <trentster> probably best to learn a good package that can create these mathematically and output 3d models
[06:07:28] <trentster> cool - looking
[06:09:57] <trentster> I think artcam is similar to Aspire anyway
[06:10:19] <archivist> just write the maths into the gcode :)
[06:10:48] <trentster> archivist: thanks - easy peasy huh!
[06:11:21] <archivist> think spirograph
[06:12:11] <trentster> archivist: I secretly wonder if you have a PHD in mathematics to fall back on
[06:12:32] <trentster> This stuff comes so easy to you, I am envious :-)
[06:12:37] <archivist> definitely not
[06:13:10] <archivist> some maths is very hard for me
[06:13:36] <archivist> but patterns are just loops
[06:14:24] <XXCoder> hm I remember this fields simulation screensaver that made vivid pattern - wonder if that'd make awesome pattern by linuxcnc picture to 3d model
[06:19:53] <trentster> I suppose its much like anything, once you know how its easy
[06:20:01] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:20:15] <XXCoder> when you see guy doing glass artwork it looks so simple
[06:20:35] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WmJOhbpyKY
[06:22:51] <trentster> XXCoder: yeah he has probably been refining his craft for 35 years
[06:22:55] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:23:15] <XXCoder> bit ironic that "looks simple" truly require master level
[06:24:27] <trentster> yeah - when it becomes muscle memory and automatic it looks simple
[06:25:11] <trentster> ok aspire seems to work well creating bitmaps into 3d objects just tried a test jpg file - yay! https://monosnap.com/file/FLCejmn2y7g0e2bYBCS67F1Ajjb523
[06:25:25] <XXCoder> wow
[06:26:48] <trentster> this was the file I used btw https://monosnap.com/file/3dz294EGdfirOzeWsqi9gYOzwkmIyQ
[06:28:45] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMkqvx3uuvQ
[06:38:54] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH2A-Pipf80 cool
[06:38:59] <trentster> XXCoder: you will love this its amazing and captions are good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe-f4gokRBs
[06:39:14] <XXCoder> trentster: http://www.vectric.com/products/aspire.html ?
[06:39:30] <trentster> ?
[06:39:48] <XXCoder> sigh I love that guy videos but could not sub because well handheld cams make me literally sick
[06:39:53] <XXCoder> and he waves it around constant;ly
[06:40:22] <XXCoder> zooms, so on
[06:40:24] <trentster> just watch the vid its self explanatory
[06:40:34] <XXCoder> trentster: thats my point. I cannot.
[06:40:42] <XXCoder> not without running to restroom and vomiting
[06:40:52] <XXCoder> my brain sucks
[06:41:30] <XXCoder> anyway is this software you meant? http://www.vectric.com/products/aspire.html
[06:42:20] <trentster> yeah thats the software I am using
[06:42:29] <XXCoder> cool. how expensive is it?
[06:43:25] <trentster> XXCoder: just watch from 2:30 its still slow mo shots at 100k FPS and up
[06:43:47] <XXCoder> anyway I do know about jacobs glass drop
[06:43:51] <trentster> the software I think was round $2k
[06:44:11] <XXCoder> pretty amazing that it focuses to tiny spot. yet if that thin strand breaks.. all shatters
[06:45:02] <archivist> it is how toughened glass is made basically
[06:45:23] <XXCoder> oops prince rupert's
[06:45:51] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V2eCFsDkK0
[06:46:23] <trentster> the most amazing part is the fracture waves moves at over 1 Mile per second - thats amazingly fast
[06:46:37] <XXCoder> fast allright
[06:47:15] <XXCoder> artcam is just $150
[06:47:22] <XXCoder> express though
[06:47:25] <archivist> hmm I want to get into a renishaw probe that is not supposed to be user repaired
[06:47:51] <trentster> yeah it does not do 3d stuff properly and their equivalent aspire version is tons of money
[06:48:54] <trentster> about $7.5k for pro version
[06:49:07] <XXCoder> fun
[06:49:41] <trentster> yeah its not play play money
[06:50:09] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:50:32] <trentster> you may get away with artcam insignia tho , its $2.5k but not sure of it abilities
[06:50:58] <XXCoder> probably will just try umm that software
[06:51:04] <XXCoder> I sure cant remember anything :P
[06:52:19] <trentster> artcam express can only import 3d models it can not create them
[06:52:41] <XXCoder> which is fine to me as I like freecad heh
[06:53:14] <trentster> you especially like the first 4 letters ;-)
[06:53:30] <XXCoder> yep I'm a cheap bastard
[06:53:49] <XXCoder> ah autodesk fusion
[06:54:16] <trentster> nah not cheap, I am sure if you had tons of money it would not be an issue, the same for most of us.
[06:54:23] <XXCoder> nah
[06:54:32] <XXCoder> I still refuse to buy brand new clothes
[06:54:38] <XXCoder> I can easily afford em now
[06:54:39] <trentster> haha ok
[06:55:00] <XXCoder> comes from growing up very poor
[07:01:56] <trentster> I know the feeling
[07:04:06] <XXCoder> running autodesk in linux ;)
[07:04:19] <XXCoder> well reallym, autodesk fusion in windows 7 in linux
[07:12:06] <XXCoder> hm
[07:12:12] <XXCoder> tutorial dont seem to work
[07:12:18] <XXCoder> that window dont come up
[07:12:23] <XXCoder> so I cant progress
[07:16:31] <XXCoder> finally figured it
[07:16:37] <XXCoder> ui is so weird
[07:24:57] <trentster> I dunno only ever used it on a mac - ui is pretty awesome imho
[07:25:24] <XXCoder> just.. different
[07:25:34] <XXCoder> also not much "visual hints"
[07:25:45] <XXCoder> but then thats been going away for years now
[07:27:02] <trentster> there is a ton of visual hints if you hover over any of the checkboxes or input fields a full graphical hint window comes up with pictures and all, - maybe linux version is different, I dunno
[07:27:36] <XXCoder> no such thing as linux version
[07:32:16] <XXCoder> heh even for my pc, running 2 OS to run a program is little much
[07:32:24] <XXCoder> lack of 3d support dont help.
[07:34:17] <trentster> it supports gpu rendering and enhancements just fine
[07:35:00] <XXCoder> if my pc had workinbg driver for such yes
[07:35:17] <XXCoder> xfce mint dont well quite support my video card
[07:36:21] <trentster> I dunno - if it was me I would get a used $10 Nvidia card off ebay and try it. alternatively nvidia card and windows dual boot partition.
[07:36:47] <XXCoder> nah dont wanna reboot to run windows app, it'll be fine :)
[07:37:51] <trentster> oh Linux version is not a native app its a web browser version right?
[07:38:06] <trentster> I would definately use it in a windows vm rather with a native app
[07:38:21] <XXCoder> fusion 360 dont have any linux version
[07:38:32] <XXCoder> so have to be in windows vm ayway :)
[07:38:32] <trentster> I would still buy a nvidia card either way tho
[07:38:47] <XXCoder> hm forgot what card mine has
[07:39:04] <XXCoder> ah asus radeon 270
[07:39:07] <XXCoder> r9
[07:40:21] <trentster> are you using virtualbox?
[07:40:25] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:40:49] <trentster> I think if you use a nvidia card virtualbox can do proper gpu hardware passthru
[07:42:18] <trentster> minimum requirements for graphics card is : Graphics Card: 512MB GDDR RAM
[07:42:20] <XXCoder> yeah?
[07:44:11] <XXCoder> this is my card http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GN1Y43E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
[07:45:47] <trentster> thats a nice card, only issue is raden drivers in linux
[07:45:50] <trentster> *radeon
[07:45:58] <trentster> on windows it would fly
[07:46:03] <trentster> How much ram have you got?
[07:46:11] <XXCoder> 16 gb
[07:47:43] <trentster> I have not kept track of the open source gpu stuff - I know awhile back there was pressure on Then ATI to release native open source radeon drivers, I guess that has not happened under AMD
[07:49:19] <XXCoder> radensi hmm
[07:54:13] <malcom2073> Using nvidias is still hell too heh
[07:54:21] <trentster> really?
[07:54:26] <trentster> so whats the easy way?
[07:54:37] <malcom2073> If you use the closed source drivers at least (whcih you have to do in order to do CUDA or any really cool stuff)
[07:55:12] <malcom2073> We have a bunch fo 980's and Titan X's at work in our workstations, and at least once a week I have to take one down to mess with the drivers and/or kernel to get video working again
[07:55:46] <malcom2073> No clue, I personally don't use linux except virtualized anymore
[07:58:46] <trentster> yeah - I only use linux for LinuxCNC
[07:58:58] <trentster> Desktop stuff always MACS
[07:59:16] <trentster> Server stuff generally Illumos/Solaris or FreeBSD
[07:59:59] <archivist> slowlaris...still out there?
[08:00:32] <trentster> it aint Slowlaris anymore archivist, your age is giving you away ;-)
[08:00:45] <trentster> XXCoder: lol check how trippy this is! https://monosnap.com/file/0wYHyIaYT4mxBEV9ybqIfjFJKAqHHl
[08:00:57] <XXCoder> crazy
[08:01:03] <XXCoder> bet toolpath is insane.
[08:01:05] <trentster> that would take a ton of time to carve with a 1/8 inch ballnose
[08:01:23] <MrSunshine> so my hunch with the ballnuts seem to have been right, ground away the little bump that they missed and smoothed it out, assembled and now it does not bind atleast as bad =)
[08:11:26] <trentster> MrSunshine: where are the ballnuts from originally?
[08:11:45] <MrSunshine> china my guess =)
[08:12:31] <trentster> aah yeah, from my experience there is always a bit of manual work needed when buying certain stuff from china. e.g I bought a 80mm spindle mount.
[08:12:57] <trentster> I had to grind the back 100% flat, it was a bit out from the casting.
[08:13:02] <trentster> par for the course I guess
[08:17:37] <MrSunshine> ive reground the spindle as it was 0.1mm off in the taper and now fixed ballnut =)
[08:18:56] <XXCoder> brb
[08:24:35] <XXCoder> hmm
[08:24:37] <XXCoder> drivers seem ok
[08:24:47] <XXCoder> but problem is how test if 3d support is working or not
[08:25:11] <malcom2073> glxgears, but that will run on software rendering too I think
[08:25:23] <malcom2073> doesn't radeon come with any tools like nvidia-settings to display what driver is being used?
[08:25:28] <enleth> XXCoder: glxinfo
[08:25:41] <_methods> yes it comes with catalyst
[08:25:45] <_methods> ati catalyst
[08:26:31] <enleth> glxinfo will indicate if hardware or software rendering is used regardless of card vendor, as long as the proper Mesa backend is available
[08:26:35] <_methods> ccc = catalyst control center
[08:26:57] <malcom2073> enleth: Nice, good to know
[08:27:26] <XXCoder> enleth: how do I find that info in reams of info it emits heh
[08:28:43] <XXCoder> ahh glxinfo | grep direct
[08:28:48] <XXCoder> it says yes
[08:33:54] <XXCoder> 6301 fps
[08:34:00] <XXCoder> glxgears
[08:34:56] <XXCoder> booting windows 7
[08:35:13] <XXCoder> or is it better to say Running as there is no actual pc booting up...
[08:42:12] <XXCoder> bah it still says software render only obn fusion
[08:42:19] <XXCoder> well night
[08:42:53] <_methods> did you set up hardware passthru
[08:43:09] <XXCoder> hink so but late so tired now lol night
[08:44:57] <_methods> no idea what you're using for vm
[08:45:14] <_methods> so not sure if you even can get bare metal access to the card
[08:52:16] <malcom2073> I keep thinking of sticking a gforce card in my server, ESXi supposidly supports hardware passthrough for video cards
[09:01:56] <miss0r> guys/girls. I need your opinion here. And I am in sort of a hurry. I was just offered a TOS FNK 25A for free. I have to pick it up my self thou - so that will include some cost. (1700kg). Is it worth my while? is it an OKAY machine?
[09:02:21] <miss0r> I'm told it is in working order.
[09:03:13] <archivist> its the right price
[09:03:22] <_methods> kvm, esxi both do hardware passthru
[09:03:53] <_methods> i think most virtualization software will
[09:03:59] <_methods> just might take some work
[09:12:45] <malcom2073> No such thing as a free machine... but a free machine is worth at least scrap price. And if it's supposed to be in working order if all else fails it probably has salvageable components on it
[09:13:16] <malcom2073> I'd never turn something like that down, just because you can probably make up the rigging costs in scrap+components
[09:14:01] <malcom2073> That being said, rigging costs could be a lot cheaper here in the USA heh
[09:28:11] <miss0r> well.... I just don't want to waste any time about this. Also, transport cost is still cost. All I want to know is: is it a descent machine?
[09:32:16] <miss0r> well... I just went ahead and accepted the offer. I should have it here in the shop once I have cleared some space some time next week.
[09:32:29] <miss0r> It is a pretty massive machine for my quite petite shop
[09:35:16] <archivist> miss0r, I have never touched one http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/what-about-tos-milling-machines-88697/
[09:35:38] <archivist> seems one poster there is a happy bunny
[10:28:27] <malcom2073> I hope PeteFromTnSoonToBeFL is being safe, hear the roads his way are terrible today
[10:33:58] <Sync> as an old saying goes "Fährste quer, siehste mehr"
[10:40:52] <jdh> that's what I always say.
[10:55:17] <malcom2073> As an equally old saying goes: "I don't know what you just said"
[10:56:36] <CaptHindsight> you mean PeteWhoUsedToBeFromTenn?
[11:06:11] <jdh> should be PeteWhoUsedToBeFromFlorida
[11:08:34] <CaptHindsight> PeteOriginallyFromFlorida as far as I know
[11:08:40] <Jymmm> malcom2073: .http://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.roosterteeth.com/uploads/images/bc14d031-be90-4ef7-ba2d-e9e00a971a03/md/DLB51e1b90974827.jpg
[11:09:41] <CaptHindsight> rabbits is practically chickens
[11:10:05] <Jymmm> heh
[11:14:06] <Jymmm> Anyone have a FLAC ripper for OSX they could recommend?
[11:16:34] <anomynous> nope
[11:16:39] <anomynous> https://xiph.org/flac/download.html
[11:16:56] <anomynous> lists some guis/front ends
[11:17:08] <Jymmm> I was already there, didn't see CDDB support.
[11:17:21] <Jymmm> thus the inquiry, but ty =)
[11:17:27] <anomynous> mm
[11:18:35] <Jymmm> video http://sourceforge.net/projects/xld/
[11:19:24] <Jymmm> ok, has cddb support, yay!
[11:24:21] <maxcnc> hi from a ice raining germany
[11:33:05] <anomynous> roughing jaws, roughing jaws. Phun phun.
[11:42:32] <maxcnc> ReadError: what power source do you got for the 525
[12:21:23] <Jymmm> Bah, I think I need to get a car battery
[12:24:39] <FloppyDisk5_25> for HAL components, can I mix a FLOAT from say a MUX2 output (float out) and a BIT, let's say to gs2.spindle-fwd (bin, in)
[12:25:58] <FloppyDisk5_25> the mux outs, I'd so something like: setp mux2.0.in1 1; setp mux2.0.in0 0
[12:26:01] <JT-Shop> that doesn't make sense
[12:26:08] <FloppyDisk5_25> ??why??
[12:26:11] <FloppyDisk5_25> sorry
[12:26:19] <archivist> you might want a comparator to convert
[12:26:27] <JT-Shop> what float value shoud trigger the bit?
[12:26:30] <JT-Shop> should
[12:26:43] <JT-Shop> 0.0000001 or 1.0
[12:27:50] <malcom2073> I think both will trigger it, all non zeros yeah?
[12:27:51] <archivist> FloppyDisk5_25, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/hal_components.html#r1_2_13
[12:28:28] <FloppyDisk5_25> I was looking here... http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[12:28:57] <FloppyDisk5_25> whoa - there are conversions.
[12:29:35] <FloppyDisk5_25> JT-shop: I was thinking 0.0 would be false and 1.0 would be True. You're thinking 'should' work?
[12:29:41] <FloppyDisk5_25> Keeps me from the conversions.
[12:31:43] <maxcnc> FloppyDisk5_25: what are you trying to adchive in the end
[12:32:29] <FloppyDisk5_25> maxcnc: my spindle won't reverse when I use the gearchange and gs2 comps. I have the gearchange.0.reverse set to 1
[12:32:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> I setup some pyvcp toggle buttons to emulate.
[12:33:05] <FloppyDisk5_25> To get around the issue, I need to use gearchange.0.dir-out and then run that to
[12:33:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> gs2.sp-fwd and gs2.sp-rev, but I have to 'not' the value for the reverse - YES - I think that might work...
[12:33:49] <maxcnc> ok better you do your own component on that
[12:34:06] <FloppyDisk5_25> I might have solved it... w/ the not... Let me re-code/connect pins...
[12:34:23] <maxcnc> Hal = FUN ;-)
[12:34:24] <FloppyDisk5_25> don't need the conversion - thanks. It's just confusing! (for me - sigh)
[12:36:21] <FloppyDisk5_25> maxcnc - HAL - love/hate. It's amazing what it can do, just takes a bit to understand.
[12:36:54] <FloppyDisk5_25> not sure there's a pun w/ 'bit', wasn't intended...
[12:40:39] <maxcnc> fun to implement double thinks like pendand and pyvcp
[12:47:58] <FloppyDisk5_25> It's really quite easy to pyvcp, havne't tried the other stuff (glade, etc..)
[12:48:11] <FloppyDisk5_25> Hats off to those who put all this together, awesome...
[13:14:29] <MrSunshine> ah finaly, screws installed on the machine and tried to run it in air =)
[13:15:02] <MrSunshine> seems to work fine, some find tuning of position of the ballscrews and stuff, loctite the frekkin nuts in place , square up the machine and blam ... ready to rock n roll =)
[13:24:47] <JT-Shop> sweet
[13:36:23] <MrSunshine> 3600mm/min upgraded to 7200mm/min =)
[13:37:02] <maxcnc> im on 20.000 stpck MrSunshine
[13:37:10] <maxcnc> per min
[13:37:18] <maxcnc> im off Gn8
[13:37:50] <MrSunshine> hehe =)
[13:39:02] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-ID-OD-GRINDER-402B50-65/272051814091 $1400 or best
[13:39:17] <MrSunshine> i can run it at 15600mm/min but thats realy realy playing with fire :P
[13:40:57] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-ID-OD-GRINDER/272074998392 ~$1600 or best
[13:43:10] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BROWN-SHARPE-1-ID-OD-UNIVERSAL-CYLENDRICAL-GRINDER-PARTS-MACHINE-/252248094102 $500 or best
[14:05:13] <bobo__> aventtini6: hi
[14:21:29] <aventtini6> hello bobo
[14:21:36] <aventtini6> sorry i was a little busy
[14:21:42] <aventtini6> how can i help you
[14:26:47] <aventtini6> how has some 7i77 for sale ?
[14:29:44] <PCW> Did you not get my email?
[14:30:10] <PCW> 7I77s are out of stock but should be available next week
[14:31:23] <aventtini6> peter i order on 30 last year
[14:31:48] <aventtini6> and i check it on the back and see money has been reffunded
[14:31:50] <aventtini6> to me
[14:31:55] <aventtini6> can you please check
[14:32:03] <aventtini6> company is caled romtag
[14:57:47] <PCW> OK they had some shipping issue with Romania, they will try again
[15:58:12] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=963192163716967&set=gm.1000469600023176&type=3&theater Looks like a good deal...
[16:01:22] <bobo__> doesent show up on this computer Pete
[16:01:41] <PetefromTn_> oh it may be a closed group..sorry
[16:01:54] <PetefromTn_> its a used MHP CNC VMC for 2500 bucks
[16:01:58] <PetefromTn_> 1987 model
[16:02:04] <PetefromTn_> apparently it is working
[16:02:40] <PetefromTn_> says copely Ohio
[16:02:45] <bobo__> Is it wateing for you in sunny Fla?
[16:03:19] <bobo__> copely is north of me
[16:03:30] <bobo__> i think
[16:04:06] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/a/ELpnW
[16:04:15] <bobo__> colder up there than here
[16:04:43] <Deejay> gn8
[16:05:51] <bobo__> gosh tool changer and rotary axis trade in your mill
[16:06:26] <PetefromTn_> the 4th is not included apparently
[16:06:53] <bobo__> deal breaker than bummer
[16:07:02] <PetefromTn_> if the crazy prices for rigging is any indication of the real costs to move the machine I may just have to sell the damn thing LOL
[16:09:29] <CaptHindsight> some riggers wanted more to move a machine than the machine cost me
[16:09:41] <PetefromTn_> yup its crazy
[16:09:52] <CaptHindsight> so as usual I end up having to do things myself
[16:09:53] <PetefromTn_> I may be trading my van in for a bigger truck here
[16:10:14] <CaptHindsight> hire crane, rent lift, get rash cream....
[16:10:28] <bobo__> Pete I hauled 2 Maho 600E and 1 Maho600E2 machines myself . the 600e2 I loaded myself
[16:10:49] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how is the house sale going?
[16:11:00] <PetefromTn_> still waiting to hear back from the customer on our third counter offer here today that they tentatively agreed to over the phone between realtors.
[16:11:26] <PetefromTn_> it is looking very good and we are not all that far from our asking price now
[16:11:28] <bobo__> unloaded all 3 machines myself
[16:11:46] <PetefromTn_> how much does a maho 600 weigh?
[16:12:22] <bobo__> My guess about 5500
[16:13:08] <PetefromTn_> the Cinci weighs like 7k
[16:13:27] <PetefromTn_> its about 6 and a half feet by 7 feet cube about 8.5 feet tall
[16:13:46] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: can you move it from it's current spot to a clear space for a crane?
[16:13:55] <CaptHindsight> by yourself?
[16:14:28] <PetefromTn_> probably
[16:15:35] <bobo__> aventtini6: what is the weight of a Maho600E ?
[16:16:40] <CaptHindsight> Weight: ca 3350 kg
[16:17:15] <CaptHindsight> 7270 lbs so similar to the cincincattttitit
[16:17:26] <CaptHindsight> i
[16:18:20] <bobo__> Thanks Cap
[16:19:24] <PetefromTn_> bobo__ what did you use to move the stuff?
[16:20:14] <bobo__> Pete i am a slow typer so hang on
[16:22:01] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/ILYQgy3.jpg RX7 downpipe I built today ;)
[16:23:08] <Tom_itx> looks good
[16:23:48] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/pHftDIq.jpg
[16:23:49] <bobo__> have a 2007 1St half of year chev 3/4 diesel / alison trany and trailer is a hyd tilt
[16:23:54] <PetefromTn_> thanks tom
[16:24:10] <PetefromTn_> bobo__ damn that sounds nice..
[16:24:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Packed yet ya lazy bastard?
[16:24:19] <PetefromTn_> why hell NO
[16:24:30] <Jymmm> PetefromTnFOREVER
[16:24:32] <PetefromTn_> when we have a signed contract I will start packing
[16:24:40] <PetefromTn_> dontevensaythatshit
[16:24:49] <Jymmm> PetefromTnFOREVERandEVERandEVER
[16:25:00] <PetefromTn_> you hate me dontcha ;)
[16:25:15] <Jymmm> Eh, it's a love hat thing... love to hate ya ;)
[16:25:18] <Jymmm> hate*
[16:25:33] <Jymmm> or... hate to love ya. Your choice
[16:25:34] <PetefromTn_> yup
[16:25:41] <PetefromTn_> works for me man
[16:25:51] <CaptHindsight> what do you prefer for a welding table surface, steel, stone/concrete, cheez-its?
[16:25:58] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: NoBromanceForYou!
[16:26:07] <PetefromTn_> well steel of course
[16:26:18] <Jymmm> welded cheezit... yuck
[16:26:20] <PetefromTn_> that table is just mild steel sheet
[16:26:46] <PetefromTn_> the frame I built from rectangular structural steel and it has quite a few supports underneath the sheet going across
[16:27:27] <PetefromTn_> it actually is fine this side of a professional adjustable welding table
[16:27:43] <bobo__> Pete But the main part to moving those Machines was 4plates 5/8 thick that bolted to each corner of mach and hade a J hook for
[16:27:59] <PetefromTn_> at my home shop tho my table I weld on is MDF topped LOL
[16:28:09] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: (ok, at least start getting boxes to pack. cause you can never have enough, but dont oversize them... a 100lb oversized box is a bitch to move. Try to get as many same-sized boxes as you can
[16:28:12] <bobo__> attaching chain to
[16:28:28] <PetefromTn_> bobo__ what is the chain for/
[16:30:34] <bobo__> the plates with J hook --then chain --then harbor f 3000lbs winch with pulley block to double force
[16:31:07] <PetefromTn_> oh to drag it up?
[16:31:35] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
[16:31:52] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308.xhtml
[16:32:21] <bobo__> the winch ----i removed half of the cable to keep the capacity (pulling) high
[16:32:24] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop moved it all with just some greased wooden planks, rope and no slaves :)
[16:32:51] <JT-Shop> come along and toe jack
[16:33:05] <PetefromTn_> honestly I plan to crank the machine down off the pods it sits on and put it back on top of the 4x4 wooden skids we move it with initially
[16:33:20] <PetefromTn_> I have a toe jack that is what we used before.
[16:33:25] <JT-Shop> finally figured out how to use the DuoMite http://gnipsel.com/images/powder-coat/dash-mount-rack.jpg
[16:33:39] <JT-Shop> dang toe jack is a life saver
[16:33:50] <PetefromTn_> it really is
[16:34:11] <PetefromTn_> actually mine is a porta power jack and one of the accessories is a toe jack style
[16:34:25] <PetefromTn_> it worked quite well when we moved the machine last time...
[16:34:30] <PetefromTn_> it sure is a nail biter tho
[16:34:46] <JT-Shop> yea... move slow... think a lot
[16:35:01] <PetefromTn_> yup move just a little bit at a time
[16:35:43] <PetefromTn_> at one point during the process the machine shifted sidways about three inches suddenly.. I swear I think I was more scared in that two seconds than at any time in my life LOL
[16:36:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: powder coating rack?
[16:36:50] <Tom_itx> coat rack silly
[16:36:53] <bobo__> also the 12 DC volt winch i bolted to a 1/2 steel ptate and welded blocks each front side of winch feet ( kept winch mounting bolts out of shear
[16:38:44] <PetefromTn_> what does the trailer look like?
[16:38:50] <bobo__> the steel plate with winch I could move around as needed , drag onto trailer or drag off trailer
[16:39:34] <bobo__> Pete see if I can get a pict
[16:39:58] <PetefromTn_> bobo__ LOL feel like taking a road trip? I will buy the pizza ;)
[16:40:55] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: yea
[16:41:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: cool
[16:44:06] <bobo__> Pete see if this works http://www.appalachiantrailers.com/equipment-trailers/hydraulic-tilt-equipment-trailer-appalachian-special-15k
[16:45:07] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/5VhTJf2 This is just an amazing picture...
[16:46:55] <JT-Shop> those pilots have ice water in their veins
[16:47:25] <PetefromTn_> that is just freaking pure skill right there.
[16:48:17] <PetefromTn_> can you imagine setting that monster's ass down on top of a shithouse shack high up in the mountains while soldiers evacuate wounded loading them up and keeping it still enough in high winds?
[16:55:30] <JT-Shop> no, I can't even imagine that
[16:57:00] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/Spyder/air-filter-kits01.jpg
[16:57:06] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/Spyder/air-filter-kits02.jpg
[16:57:13] <PetefromTn_> I have been close to one of those CH47 chinook helicopters and lemme tell you that thing is HUGE!
[16:57:47] <JT-Shop> they fly over my house and I can hear them a few miles away
[16:58:56] <bobo__> Pete guessing you don't have a trailer . but might the place you weld at --- might they be interested in working some deal with you
[17:00:08] <bobo__> say both go in on at trailer and then a buy out after your move ?
[17:00:13] <PetefromTn_> no they don't really have anything
[17:00:34] <PetefromTn_> the only trailer they would want would be an enclosed vehicle trailer
[17:01:22] <PetefromTn_> was thinking about trading my Astro Van on say a Ford Excursion 4x4 or something that could tow it easily..
[17:02:15] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ Do you need a trailer?
[17:02:30] <PetefromTn_> I can probably rent one
[17:02:38] <PetefromTn_> but yeah I don't have one
[17:02:44] <bobo__> Iwould try to rent a truck ,just Me thought
[17:02:57] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ What are you going to trailer?
[17:03:04] <JT-Shop> low trailer is easier to load
[17:03:09] <squibby0> #emc > #linuxcnc. O.o interesting redirect there.
[17:03:56] <PetefromTn_> going to trailer my VMC to Florida
[17:04:10] <PetefromTn_> unless I can find someone who will do it for a REASONABLE price..
[17:04:15] <bobo__> Tilt bed trailer is even easer to load and unload
[17:04:22] <cradek> PetefromTn_: uship.com
[17:04:46] <os1r1s> bobo__ I have a sloan kwikload trailer. Thats why I was asking :)
[17:05:07] <JT-Shop> I shipped my VMC from a couple states away to me and it was not expensive at all
[17:05:34] <os1r1s> I'll second uship
[17:05:47] <bobo__> oslrls where are you located /
[17:05:59] <PetefromTn_> what is your idea of NOT expensive?
[17:05:59] <os1r1s> bobo__ Near Memphis
[17:06:45] <bobo__> same state as Pete than
[17:06:54] <os1r1s> bobo__ yah. About 5 hours away
[17:07:05] <PetefromTn_> memphis is a LOT more than 5 hours away
[17:07:24] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ You are near Chattenooga, right?
[17:07:28] <JT-Shop> $500 or so
[17:07:32] <os1r1s> Can't spell for shit
[17:07:36] <bobo__> not the way we fly old man
[17:07:42] <PetefromTn_> no I am near knoxvegas
[17:08:13] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:08:34] <PetefromTn_> honestly if I could get the machine from here to a warehouse storage in Port St. Lucie for less than $1500 I would be pretty happy
[17:09:19] <os1r1s> I would think you could pay uship 500 to do it
[17:09:42] <PetefromTn_> never heard of Uship but cannot imagine how it could be that cheap
[17:09:44] <cradek> forklifts at both ends can cost as much as the shipping
[17:09:55] <PetefromTn_> yup
[17:10:04] <PetefromTn_> probably 350-500
[17:10:07] <PetefromTn_> each end
[17:10:14] <cradek> I paid a guy less than twice what I figured was fuel cost to ship my vmc
[17:10:27] * JT-Shop had to look where Port St. Lucie was
[17:10:29] <PetefromTn_> who?
[17:10:34] <cradek> someone on uship
[17:10:37] <JT-Shop> pretty good haul from your house
[17:10:38] <cradek> people bid for the job
[17:10:46] <PetefromTn_> PSL is about 13 hours from here
[17:11:02] <cradek> and you can pick a private guy who has good feedback and owns his own truck and trailer
[17:11:03] <PetefromTn_> are they pro's or shitheads tho?
[17:11:11] <cradek> he had a very nice tarp and was a good guy
[17:11:18] <cradek> PetefromTn_: feedback system
[17:11:23] <PetefromTn_> ah
[17:11:30] <PetefromTn_> I will check into it...
[17:11:37] <PetefromTn_> you used the uship too then?
[17:11:49] <cradek> me? yeah found him through uship
[17:11:51] <cradek> it was easy
[17:12:12] <cradek> he had his own chains too, come to think of it
[17:12:13] <PetefromTn_> man I would be tickled if I could find something like that for a reasonable price
[17:12:35] <PetefromTn_> I figure I can get some skates and get the machine onto the skids
[17:12:49] <PetefromTn_> then I can roll the thing to the shop door and drop it down onto the skids
[17:12:52] <os1r1s> My boss used uship to ship a truck a few states away. He was pleased
[17:12:59] <PetefromTn_> then I can drag the thing out of the shop using my truck
[17:13:29] <cradek> you need a forklift to get it on/off the trailer anyway
[17:13:39] <PetefromTn_> but unless they can winch it up onto a tilt trailer like bobo has I will be needing the forklift
[17:13:49] <JT-Shop> I finally broke down on the last machine and got 4 of these http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200342863_200342863
[17:14:28] <PetefromTn_> is it four for a hundred or a hundred each?
[17:14:52] <JT-Shop> a bengi each
[17:15:15] <PetefromTn_> screw that I rented a set of nice ones for less than 40 bucks last time
[17:16:57] <bobo__> I used 4 steel plates to drag the machines . Dawn liquid soap as a lube on plate to floor surface
[17:17:00] <JT-Shop> small town here not much selection
[17:17:39] <JT-Shop> I had 3 machines to move asap so they were worth it for me... then I moved a building with them
[17:18:04] <PetefromTn_> honestly if I can get it on the skids in its current position I can probably drag it out of the shop without any skates at all
[17:18:12] <PetefromTn_> the floor of the shop is quite smooth
[17:21:59] <bobo__> now if we can only talk you into buying a building instead of a dumb house
[17:22:40] <PetefromTn_> anything is possible
[17:22:52] <PetefromTn_> shit here comes the snow...
[17:22:54] <bobo__> yah i know keep the better half happy
[17:24:35] <PetefromTn_> so bobo how ya feel about a nice little vacation to florida in say a month or so )
[17:24:36] <JT-Shop> yea if you have a straight shot then use equipment, when I got the CHNC to the garage door it was a no brainer to grab the back hoe and a couple of 4x4's and push it inside
[17:25:12] <PetefromTn_> yup its a straight shot right out the front door from where it is sitting..
[17:26:55] <bobo__> Pete sounds interesting , but i refuse to drive that equipment on salt laden roads
[17:27:21] <PetefromTn_> understand that man
[17:27:57] <PetefromTn_> how low can that kind of trailer go down to the ground?
[17:28:10] <bobo__> my 07 truck has less than 20k miles , all on non salted roads
[17:29:29] <bobo__> back of trailer will go into trench i dug in ground
[17:29:57] <PetefromTn_> won't be any digging into concrete driveway ;)
[17:30:38] <bobo__> back of trailer is about 2" tube
[17:31:26] <FloppyDisk5_25> Anyone try to use lcnc w/ a turret punch?
[17:31:51] <FloppyDisk5_25> We could make some Lcnc computer boxes or something:-)
[17:31:58] <andypugh> Yes, I remember someone at least starting the project
[17:32:26] <FloppyDisk5_25> I would think a lot of it would be in the CAM for the tool choice and then gcode...
[17:32:30] <andypugh> This evening’s job, makiing a tapered gib for the lathe: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6242752113442930834
[17:32:59] <FloppyDisk5_25> Nice...
[17:32:59] <andypugh> (raw casting on the left, dinished part on the right, the saddle if fits in underneath)
[17:33:14] <andypugh> (finished not dinished)
[17:34:10] <andypugh> Gib strips are quite a challenge to make, being long and thin and finshed all round.
[17:34:19] <bobo__> to me the trick was four 5/8" steel plates that each corner/foot of mach bolted to. and each plate had a J hook to pull from
[17:34:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> I would agree, fixturing would be tricky... Maybe you can show a pic of your setup if you're inclined...
[17:35:51] <andypugh> This time: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6242753173479978242
[17:36:20] <FloppyDisk5_25> Yeah! I'm not so dumb:-)
[17:36:33] <Sync> hmm, nice
[17:36:38] <Sync> my vfd prototype works
[17:36:49] <andypugh> This was actually easier than the last Gib I made, for the Rivett as that was made from round Durabar and was trapezoidal
[17:37:03] <FloppyDisk5_25> I had a long skinny plate I wanted to face and thought of doing soemthing like that. Ended up not facing it. but, my idea was like yours - thank you...
[17:37:59] <FloppyDisk5_25> You get a lot of mileage out of that mill:-)
[17:38:29] <andypugh> The Rivett gib is here: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/rivett-lathe-slideway-refurb-as.html That took more than a day.
[17:39:21] <andypugh> 1” wide, 1/4” thick but I started with a 35mm round bar.
[17:39:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> Oh my...
[17:40:13] <XXCoder> dang
[17:40:20] <XXCoder> thats complex gringing
[17:40:22] <XXCoder> grinding
[17:40:25] <FloppyDisk5_25> A pro machinist I 'worked with' talked about shops making square stock out of round w/ files... dang...
[17:42:12] <XXCoder> I saw myfordboy's method to file things more or less perfectly round
[17:42:38] <XXCoder> dang. he uses 2 round "bearings" so file can cut stock till it hits those and dont cut anything
[17:42:55] <XXCoder> ("bearings" are free rolling so file just rolls it and not cut anything)
[17:43:32] <andypugh> A filing guide used ot be something that trainees made as one of their first projects.
[17:44:11] <SpeedEvil> A file is a great exemplar of the fact how you use a tool matters more than the tool
[17:44:25] <SpeedEvil> It can make really quite precise stuff - used right
[17:44:54] <FloppyDisk5_25> The particular shop this guy spoke of were considered top notch by the top notch...
[17:45:38] <andypugh> I think we still have my grandads first project (he was an apprentice-trained millwright). It is a round metal bar with two bends in it and a tapered slot in one end. It’s a file handle for filing flat surfaces considerably bigger than the file.
[17:47:17] <andypugh> Same idea as the top one here: http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/workshop/Machine-Shop-Work/images/Fig-52-Special-File-Holder.jpg
[17:47:43] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[17:47:45] <andypugh> it is going to be quicker to moel it in CAD than to describe it :-)
[17:48:04] <FloppyDisk5_25> Cool.
[17:48:18] <SpeedEvil> 'replace the baseplate of a plane with a file'
[17:50:34] <os1r1s> How necessary is it to add an oiler to a g0704 class mill?
[17:51:17] <Tom_itx> you want it to last?
[17:51:29] <os1r1s> Tom_itx Of course
[17:51:41] <Tom_itx> oil it
[17:51:54] <FloppyDisk5_25> Are you replacing acme/lead screws with ball screws?
[17:51:59] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 Yes
[17:52:13] <FloppyDisk5_25> I still think you should oil it... but, maybe you don't need to do it all the time...
[17:52:30] <FloppyDisk5_25> I'm thinking of ball screw positioning stages that would get high duty cycle use, they don't ahve oilers?
[17:52:48] <os1r1s> I'm trying to figure out if its worth the time to add a one shot oiler system where I carve slots into the saddle
[17:53:10] <FloppyDisk5_25> Hmmm, and probably better to do it now than when you get it back together.
[17:53:25] <FloppyDisk5_25> (
[17:53:34] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 Right :)
[17:53:42] <FloppyDisk5_25> I'm not really an expert - I guess it depends on how much you'll use it...
[17:54:11] <FloppyDisk5_25> If you think you're going to go crazy (which you're probably gung ho right now), then it's a good idea.
[17:54:39] <FloppyDisk5_25> But, if you'll use it heavy for 2 months and it'll sit for 2, etc, then maybe not... Some manual oil drops would suffice in that case
[17:54:46] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk5_25 Something like this ... http://linuxcnc-g0704.blogspot.com/2014/08/one-shot-oiling.html
[17:54:51] <os1r1s> Is what I was thinking of
[17:55:45] <FloppyDisk5_25> If it's not too hard, should be fine... the plastic tubing would be easier than the steel, that's for sure.
[17:56:00] <andypugh> If you think that you can trust youself to go round the oiling points, then it’s probably excessive
[17:56:31] <andypugh> The mill I CNC-ed was intended for industrial use, and that didn’t have central oiling, so still doesn’t.
[17:57:06] <andypugh> I have thought about it, but running round the oilers with a gun once a week is almost certainly adequate for the use I give it
[17:57:13] <FloppyDisk5_25> My mill does have the one shot timer thingy and I get so much oil I pull the relay to it from time to time cuz oil drips all over the place
[17:57:40] <FloppyDisk5_25> But, I'm pretty bad w/ running the oiler, so it's probably good for me.
[17:57:46] <os1r1s> I'd love to use it often, but it would be a lot for me to use it once a month
[17:58:15] <bobo__> oslrls only as a reference point deckel - maho -other similar cnc mills have oil system that oils ways an ball screws every few minutes when machine is moving and more often if small moves
[17:58:31] <andypugh> FloppyDisk5_25: Well, the CAD model is done, but the VM is taking an age to boot a web browser to upload the picture
[17:58:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, Expected Delivery Day: Monday, January 25, 2016
[17:59:03] <JT-Shop> sweet! thanks
[17:59:18] <FloppyDisk5_25> Well, depends on how well you think you'll keep it oiled. sounds like you can get away w/ out it, but would be a nice touch to put it in.
[17:59:47] <Tom_itx> Arrived at USPS Destination Facility HAZELWOOD, MO 63042
[18:00:15] <Sync> hmm simple oil manifolds are not ideal
[18:00:28] <Sync> you want a proportioning unit
[18:00:29] <os1r1s> bobo__ Thank you for that reference. It helps quite a bit. I thought the one shot oilers you pulled before use?
[18:00:29] <JT-Shop> if Hazelwood doesn't lose it we are in good shape
[18:01:00] <Sync> holy shit, dc braking my 3kW motor produces significant torque
[18:01:00] <os1r1s> Sync Do you have a suggested manifold?
[18:01:53] <Sync> http://www.vogel-zentralschmierung-handel.com/images/product_images/popup_images/Einleitungssystem-Verteiler-345-Oel-001-ccm-Hub.jpg those
[18:02:04] <Sync> they have a piston driven proportioning unit
[18:03:17] <andypugh> Here we are, thing for using a file in a big flat surface. Pretty simple, the sort of thing you might need one day: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#6242759679859861282
[18:03:32] <FloppyDisk5_25> slick!
[18:04:00] <FloppyDisk5_25> I like how you can put pressure on it to keep it against the work piece.
[18:05:15] <FloppyDisk5_25> Need to run out and check on the king tide, getting rain in NorCAL and fun to see how the rivers get big fat and swirly. Not used to that!!!
[18:10:35] <XXCoder> not very complex
[18:17:35] <bobo__> PetefromTn: when i moved the machines . covered them in a loose fitting cover (4sides and top all one piece) made from same material the truckers use
[18:20:21] <PetefromTn_> ok
[18:20:58] <bobo__> Pete biggest problem was tieing the cover down so it dodn't flap so much flaffing around in the wind caused major wear on cover
[18:21:11] <XXCoder> http://limpingchicken.com/2016/01/21/rebekah-rose-mundy-i-will-never-be-a-real-family-member-in-my-hearing-family-because-they-dont-sign/
[18:21:13] <XXCoder> glad my entire family is deaf. I have met many deaf people that had that issue with family. including my best friend
[18:28:58] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Is that just, as the article said, people not valuing communication?
[18:29:14] <XXCoder> malcom2073: when its family yes
[18:29:17] <malcom2073> Most communication I have with my family is over text, not voice anyway, because the content is way more important than the delivery method
[18:29:45] <XXCoder> my best friend is one of quite extreme case. his parents didnt even bother to find out that he wasnt being taught at school at all
[18:29:59] <malcom2073> That sucks
[18:30:01] <XXCoder> as he puts it, hes always alone and sitting
[18:30:24] <XXCoder> when he found out about deaf school he had a bitter fight with his parents so they finally sent him there
[18:30:42] <XXCoder> and he said he was "born" the day he first entered school
[18:30:51] <XXCoder> he had to do all his eduction within that 4 years
[18:31:00] <malcom2073> That's really awesome that he was able to find that place though
[18:31:16] <XXCoder> he did pretty good comparing. he now has better relationship with his mom
[18:31:52] <XXCoder> yeah I met him there, he was senior and I was freshman
[18:31:54] <gregcnc> if mesa 5i25 was purchased with 7i76 and now I have 7i77 do i have to replace firmware manually or will pncconf take care of it?
[18:33:41] <andypugh> XXCoder: A more difficult situation is something I have heard of where parents don’t want their deaf kids to be surgically made to hear because then they are not part of the deaf community that their parents belong to. I was apalled the first time I heard it, but the more I think about it, the more I understand. The community we belong to is part of who we are. It’s like Catholic parents refusing to admit to their
[18:33:41] <andypugh> that it all seems stupd to them too.
[18:34:17] <XXCoder> malcom2073: other case is my sis in law. her parents learned how to sign somewhat and made effort. they didnt do too well on including her in conversions and events
[18:34:22] <XXCoder> but much better anyway
[18:34:30] <andypugh> gregcnc: pnnconf does not even know what firmware is on a card. You can run pncconf with no card attached.
[18:34:41] <SpeedEvil> Early learning can be key.
[18:34:48] <SpeedEvil> I found an interesting paper on braille.
[18:35:02] <XXCoder> andypugh: dunno, CT is very very complex issue. need to implant before certain age so brain audio centers develops, but it converts deaf to broken hearing person
[18:35:03] <SpeedEvil> If you don't learn braille by age 10, you get to typically 60WPM.
[18:35:16] <gregcnc> thanks, this mesa stuff will be fun.......
[18:35:18] <SpeedEvil> If you learn well before then, you typically get to 300-500wpmn
[18:35:34] <XXCoder> it does make difference
[18:36:18] <andypugh> gregcnc: You need mesaflash
[18:36:48] <XXCoder> andypugh: people who got CT is RARELY happy.
[18:37:10] <andypugh> XXCoder: Yeah, I did say that I got it :-)
[18:37:36] <bobo__> Pete I was offered the use of 4 skates but thought a steel plate was better for me as not haveing to lift mach twice to put on skate to move mach and then lift again to remove , plus the skates could not be bolted to the mach and was concerend about slipping of skate off the mach
[18:37:37] <andypugh> Happy deaf parents with deaf child, if you don’t know what you are missing…..
[18:38:24] <XXCoder> oh deaf families do have problems same as any other family
[18:38:26] <XXCoder> but yeah
[18:38:58] <andypugh> If I was in some horrible game where I had to choose a sense to lose, hearing is just after smell.
[18:39:26] <XXCoder> heh I cant smell either, and boy, if I choose which sense to RESTORE, it'd be smell first
[18:39:34] <andypugh> Yeah?
[18:39:38] <XXCoder> no shit.
[18:39:57] <XXCoder> http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1990-i-have-no-sense-smell-5-insane-realities.html
[18:40:12] <andypugh> I am kind-of ignoring how much of taste is actually smell.
[18:40:32] <XXCoder> only difference is that with only 3 remaining senses my senses is overly sensive so I can taste more
[18:40:37] <andypugh> Having no sense of touch might be the worst of all.
[18:40:46] <XXCoder> indeed
[18:41:31] <XXCoder> for me, in order from least to worse - taste, smell, touch, eyesight
[18:41:37] <andypugh> Not for any touchy-feely-huggy reason, just that people with that problem injure themselves continuously.
[18:41:49] <XXCoder> hm I cant recall one more sense
[18:42:20] <XXCoder> duuuh hearing. put it between smell and touch
[18:42:21] <andypugh> The one you dont have, and the one that nobody knows they have
[18:42:47] <XXCoder> no, between taste and smell I mean
[18:43:29] <andypugh> There is also the kinesthetic sense. You know where your limbs are.
[18:43:41] <XXCoder> ahh yeah
[18:43:50] <andypugh> You can touch you nose with any finger, with your eyes closed, with no erros.
[18:44:32] <XXCoder> more or less
[18:44:36] <andypugh> (We appear to contian encoders and a kins module :-)
[18:44:38] <SpeedEvil> You can only really tell when you're at that point.
[18:45:11] <XXCoder> precision sucks, around .1" lol
[18:45:11] <SpeedEvil> I have chronic fatigue syndrom - my legs in principle work, and I can run with them. I would have them amputated tomorrow if it would cure the fatigue.
[18:46:02] <andypugh> XXCoder: I would put it about 1” for any random body part. Try little finger to ankle…
[18:46:31] <XXCoder> I see someone at work with .5" precision on body psotion, he would miss buttons constantly if he wasnt smart enough to just near hit button, adjust position then hit
[18:46:39] * SpeedEvil ponders moments of inertia.
[18:46:42] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: fatigue or “restless legs” ?
[18:47:32] <SpeedEvil> archivist: Fatigue - much of the time I'm extremely tired. Any concentrated mental or slightly active physical activity can is often as tiring as if I've been doing it for hours, not minutes.
[18:47:50] <XXCoder> andypugh: that cracked article entry #5 is a expecially bad problem for me. I also has guts that is not quite 100% working
[18:47:56] <XXCoder> lifelong problem
[18:48:01] <SpeedEvil> It can be hard to work out what a deficit will do to you without experiencing it.
[18:49:32] <bobo__> SpeedEvil you are still luckey wate till the chronic old burnt out gezzer syndrom crawles into the picture. just wate for it
[18:49:45] <XXCoder> ketchup is.. a taste nuclear bomb for me lol
[18:49:59] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: sucks. I cant imange lacking energy all time
[18:50:01] <SpeedEvil> bobo__: I have argon.
[18:50:21] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - moving on.
[18:51:14] <XXCoder> andypugh: did you read that cracked article? it gives you a very good idea
[18:51:24] <SpeedEvil> Is there a term for 'stored energy in a rotating system' ?
[18:51:33] <SpeedEvil> It's not rotational inertia
[18:51:44] <XXCoder> ponental energy is generic term
[18:51:51] <SpeedEvil> I guess
[18:51:51] <XXCoder> not sure if theres specific term for that
[18:51:57] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: Angular momentum?
[18:52:03] <SpeedEvil> No, energy.
[18:52:24] <SpeedEvil> I'm wondering from the perspecive of time to speed up/slow down a motor drive
[18:52:31] <XXCoder> kenetic energy?
[18:52:37] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotational_energy ?
[18:52:41] <andypugh> Well, it’s rotational minetic energy
[18:52:46] <SpeedEvil> I guess the generic term works.
[18:52:49] <andypugh> (kinetic)
[18:52:56] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering if there was a specific term of art.
[18:53:56] <andypugh> Yes, rotational kinetic energy, but I seem to recall that it is very closely linked to angular momentum. As they are both conservedm and one is just a geometric product of the other.
[18:54:27] <SpeedEvil> There is the important ^2 term - for motor drives and things.
[18:54:50] <andypugh> ie, RotKE is angular momentum * I, and both are conserved and I rarely changes.
[18:55:06] <SpeedEvil> err - no.
[18:55:30] <andypugh> Or is is I^2? In any case, there is a rather close correspondence.
[18:55:34] <SpeedEvil> For a given system, if it's rotating 10* as fast, it has 10* the angular momentum, but 100* the rotartional kinetic energy
[18:55:49] <SpeedEvil> which matters if you're trying to optimise for fast changes in speed
[18:56:25] <SpeedEvil> - I'm trying to work out fast moderate precision muscle-like things using RC brushless stuff.
[18:57:07] <andypugh> My point, and it is a rather vague point after midnight on a friday, is that the difference only matters in systems that can change their moment of inertia.
[18:57:35] <andypugh> ie, you can choose to use either in your calcs and get the same answers.
[18:57:36] <SpeedEvil> for angular momentum, yes, but not if you care about stored energy you have to add and remove
[18:58:08] <SpeedEvil> (and are comparing things with different max RPM)
[18:58:52] <SpeedEvil> It's a fun design, because you probably really need ideally a clutch, and a brake as well as just a gear
[18:58:57] <SpeedEvil> and for it to be light
[18:59:07] <andypugh> For a motor system you can look at torque x time and monentum ot power x time and energy, whichever is easier. I am prepared to bet almost 10p that you get the same answers at the end.
[19:00:13] <SpeedEvil> torque * time = angular momentum. Power * time = energy
[19:01:40] <SpeedEvil> If you're comparing two drives, with the same angular momentum, but one has 3* the RPM, then the stored energy will be 10* the other.
[19:02:07] <__rob> anyone got an opinion on which is better, er collects vs a set screw endmill holder
[19:02:32] <Sync> depends
[19:02:35] <XXCoder> __rob: honestly either works for certain uses. set screw has smaller diameter which can be important
[19:02:37] <Sync> weldon usually are cheaper
[19:02:52] <Sync> but you must get good ones
[19:02:55] <XXCoder> while collets is easy to change, great when tools wear out very fast (like on very hard metal)
[19:02:59] <Sync> otherwise they suck
[19:03:16] <__rob> yea, well I have enough of both
[19:03:21] <__rob> the Tormach ones
[19:03:23] <XXCoder> there is also heat strunk collets (dunno proper name) which is even thinner than set screw but money more I guess
[19:03:25] <__rob> so I am filling the ATC
[19:03:33] <__rob> I've always used collects before
[19:03:35] <__rob> collets
[19:03:49] <__rob> but I got a range of setscrew ones, so not gonna be changing all that much
[19:04:09] <__rob> will likely have other tools setup out of the ATC in some of the tormach holders
[19:04:15] <XXCoder> __rob: set screw is great if you has specialized tool grinder to add those notches those need.
[19:04:20] <__rob> so just trying to divide up what I have between most used tools and less used etc..
[19:04:29] <XXCoder> shop I work at recently got one, and man is it amazing!
[19:04:46] <__rob> you need a notch for the set screw ?
[19:05:05] <Sync> yes
[19:05:17] <Sync> http://robbjack.com/technical/modifications/weldon-flats.jpg
[19:05:30] <__rob> ahh yea
[19:05:37] <__rob> of course to stop it slipping round
[19:05:41] <XXCoder> __rob: oh yes very much a yes.
[19:05:52] <__rob> yea never used the set screw ones before
[19:05:54] <andypugh> __rob: Never even try to use a setscrew on a hardened shank with no flat
[19:06:07] <__rob> right
[19:06:10] <__rob> thats good to know
[19:06:13] <XXCoder> __rob: make sure to pull tool upwards when setting.
[19:06:15] <__rob> how 'good' does my flat have to be
[19:06:23] <Sync> good
[19:06:26] <andypugh> It needs to exist :-)
[19:06:31] <__rob> right, so not a hand grinder job
[19:06:33] <andypugh> Not a lot more, really.
[19:06:33] <XXCoder> flat-ish
[19:06:37] <Sync> you can hand grind them
[19:06:41] <Sync> but it is eh
[19:06:58] <Sync> I usually just buy my mills with them
[19:07:07] <__rob> yup, I have some with them
[19:07:07] <XXCoder> just don't curve "out" (same curve s tool itself)
[19:07:12] <__rob> but I have a ton of end mills without
[19:07:15] <XXCoder> inwards or flat is fine
[19:07:28] <__rob> curve out?
[19:07:37] <__rob> you mean grind round the radius a bit ?
[19:07:38] <XXCoder> still round basically
[19:07:43] <__rob> yea,
[19:07:58] <andypugh> Making heat-shrink holders turns out to be not so hard. Though I have no idea if the ones I made recently will ever let go.
[19:07:59] <__rob> makes sense
[19:08:25] <XXCoder> andypugh: heat strunk is awesome, but equipment is hard to use so not really using much of those.
[19:08:31] <Sync> o0
[19:08:34] <Sync> it is super easy to use
[19:08:35] <__rob> trying to think if I could setup the grinder on the table somehow
[19:08:38] <Sync> you pop it in the thing
[19:08:41] <__rob> for a perfect grind
[19:08:42] <Sync> and pull the tool out
[19:08:52] <Sync> or put it in
[19:09:10] <andypugh> I used a blow torch for fitting, and my lathe to rotate the holder and shove the tool in in one go. As I said, I have no idea how to get the tool out again.
[19:09:13] <Sync> but for regular machining shrink holders don't have many uses
[19:09:19] <XXCoder> Sync: machine at work has many different settings for correct dameter and such
[19:09:37] <Sync> the diameters come out of the presetter
[19:09:49] <Sync> ah
[19:09:49] <Sync> well
[19:09:52] <Sync> dunno
[19:09:59] <Sync> the one we use just works
[19:10:04] <XXCoder> Sync: its important when SMALL diameter is important. like need 5 inches barely larger than tool itself. say 2 inch of tool + 3 inch heat strunk collet
[19:10:25] <XXCoder> maybe its to make feature close to much taller side of part or soemthing
[19:10:33] <andypugh> This was a one-off super long drill and err, this horror: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6231236737028424114
[19:10:50] <XXCoder> crazy
[19:11:09] <Sync> yeah, but such ops are uncommon
[19:11:14] <andypugh> Struggling with machine-too-small-for-job
[19:11:25] <XXCoder> it isnt, good thing as I suck on heat strunk collets.
[19:12:44] <bobo__> andypugh what amount did you use for the shrink factor ?
[19:12:45] <andypugh> This was an example of part-wall in the way, I needed the holder smaller than the tool.
[19:13:10] <andypugh> Very sientifically.. one thou per inch
[19:14:07] <bobo__> worked so good enough
[19:14:18] <__rob> ughhm looks like most people are just using their pro grinding setup to add flats to any tool
[19:14:19] <andypugh> So, a thou and a half in that case. Converted to metric as I work in metric when making stuff, and imperial when guessing stuff.
[19:14:56] <XXCoder> __rob: orginially shop I work at have this weird "grinder lathe" for making good tool flats
[19:15:24] <XXCoder> they later added simple grinder setup. it has special parts where you put tool in and it helps hold tool steady to be ground
[19:16:29] <__rob> yea, checking them out now
[19:16:35] <__rob> not cheap for something alright
[19:16:46] <__rob> might try and rig up the dewalt on the table
[19:16:47] <XXCoder> you could mod a cheap grinder
[19:17:01] <XXCoder> really whats different is hinge setup to hold tool
[19:17:31] <__rob> yea, actually I could easily mill out a setup to do that on a cheapo benchtop
[19:17:34] <bobo__> nothing like being able to use chose metric or imperial for the best results
[19:18:30] <__rob> http://www.screwfix.com/p/energer-enb519grb-150mm-bench-grinder-240v/93157?kpid=93157&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Power%20Tools-_-Shopping%20-%20Power%20Tools&gclid=CjwKEAiAw4e1BRDfi7vghaWU9jESJACzo9jubnxAo7kK5YAT41YX6O2U7XULcR-aNIf8Y6DEPPY7hRoCB5zw_wcB
[19:18:32] <__rob> something like that
[19:18:45] <__rob> not quite sure how they can make that and ship it from china for £18
[19:18:53] <__rob> and screwfix are making a profit on it
[19:18:58] <XXCoder> bulk shipping
[19:19:14] <__rob> that should work no ?
[19:19:25] <__rob> bold it down and make a tool jig
[19:19:34] <__rob> bolt*
[19:19:34] <XXCoder> yeah
[19:19:50] <XXCoder> probably need better wheels expecially for carbide tools
[19:20:12] <XXCoder> *grinder wheels whatever proper name is
[19:20:35] <Sync> yeah, just get a diamond wheel, or SiC
[19:20:47] <__rob> they likely standard for those things?
[19:21:02] <XXCoder> Sync: think thats what my work has, klooks metal with spikes and voids in it
[19:21:14] <__rob> always a problem with a cheapo tool is that you find that the shipped parts are the only ones you'll ever find to work with it
[19:21:15] <__rob> heh
[19:21:28] <Sync> well SiC discs exist for them
[19:21:46] <Sync> but you will want to make proper washers for the grinder
[19:21:50] <Sync> as that is where they suck bad
[19:22:24] <XXCoder> http://lapidarytec.com/cart/images/cache/5Grinder_Disk.580.jpg
[19:22:31] <__rob> just thinking about how this has got to work
[19:22:34] <XXCoder> this looks kinda like one at work. diamond grinder
[19:22:37] <__rob> tool needs to move vertically right ?
[19:22:39] <__rob> to get it flat
[19:23:12] <XXCoder> yeah and tool holder helps it ridig, your hands can do it but not as steady as hinged holder
[19:23:16] <__rob> or at least along some axis so I dont get a concave 'flat'
[19:23:27] <XXCoder> actually concave is fine
[19:23:39] <XXCoder> convex may be too problemic
[19:23:41] <XXCoder> it might rotate
[19:23:46] <__rob> yea, ok
[19:23:58] <__rob> so actually I could get away with a holder and hinge
[19:24:09] <__rob> makes it easy
[19:24:29] <XXCoder> yep that would work. tool holder is flat with hinge end, and other end has umm "U" bends
[19:24:59] <XXCoder> it holds size range, and other side has larger U for larger tool range
[19:25:21] <__rob> yup, just thinkign the same :)
[19:25:26] <XXCoder> forgot exact range but left side could hold around 1/2 max, and other side is larger
[19:25:53] <XXCoder> the U has groove at where tool would contact grinder
[19:25:55] <XXCoder> so you can see
[19:26:18] <__rob> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak1iBeH0v_k
[19:26:34] <__rob> just a v-groove holder, with some kind of clamp I presume
[19:26:51] <__rob> cant really see his fingers are in the way
[19:26:57] <XXCoder> one at work uses U, but V would work I guess
[19:27:19] <XXCoder> that ones definitely different but I guess can hold even smaller range tools than one at work
[19:27:32] <XXCoder> probably can grind tiny ones but then no point to
[19:27:46] <XXCoder> but you see the groove I meant too there
[19:27:51] <XXCoder> helps you see
[19:27:59] <__rob> yea, got collets for small tools
[19:28:40] <XXCoder> my guess is hardest part is ensuring hinge is very near T to grinder
[19:28:59] <XXCoder> so you dont get off T grinds.
[19:31:50] <__rob> http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image/ae235?wid=1000&hei=1000&op_sharpen=1&layer=0&size=1000,1000&layer=1&size=1000,1000&src=ae235/93157_P
[19:31:54] <__rob> looks like it has a mount
[19:32:12] <XXCoder> nice!
[19:32:31] <XXCoder> easy enough for you to craft a tool grinder addon
[19:32:45] <__rob> bet it feels like £18 tho
[19:32:59] <__rob> the tool I'm grinding will be more most of the time :)
[19:33:04] <__rob> anyway, thats great - thanks
[19:34:34] <XXCoder> np
[19:34:56] <XXCoder> though I dont suggest using it for anything but tool grind
[19:35:15] <XXCoder> it would make grinder not flat and parallel to tool surface
[19:36:28] <XXCoder> if you need regular too, maybe one side is regular
[19:37:24] <XXCoder> http://cheezburger.com/4828794624
[19:37:26] <XXCoder> wha the..
[19:37:48] <__rob> umm, surely grinding tools is no different to anything tho ?
[19:37:52] <__rob> it would wear the disc evenly
[19:38:13] <XXCoder> yeah but using grinder on something else probably would make it not even
[19:38:21] <XXCoder> which is unsuitable for tool grind
[19:38:23] <__rob> ohh I see what you mean
[19:38:26] <__rob> the other way round
[19:38:38] <__rob> ok, thats a good point
[19:38:39] <__rob> thanks
[19:38:45] <XXCoder> np
[19:46:41] <__rob> trying to source a diamon wheels for that grinder from ebay
[19:46:48] <__rob> ø150mm x 16 x 12.7mm is given in the manual
[19:47:02] <__rob> gotta be 16mm hole right ?
[19:49:05] <__rob> thats what its only £18!
[19:51:36] <__rob> mmm mabey not
[19:51:53] <__rob> found a few 12.7 discs
[19:53:42] <XXCoder> no idea, I'm sure you can figure it out though :)
[19:54:55] <__rob> will just pick one up and have a look
[19:55:24] <XXCoder> funny your new grinder and disc probably cost 10% the new machine at my work
[19:57:20] <__rob> as long as its better than 10% as good
[19:57:30] <__rob> the reviews on the website are all surprisingly positive
[19:57:38] <XXCoder> I'm sure its pretty good
[19:57:49] <XXCoder> expecially after you add tool grinder attachment
[20:18:39] <gregcnc> ughh where should I put mesa .bit files to update 5i25 using mesaflash? seems simple, but I don't even linux
[20:24:59] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121359786829
[20:25:19] <__rob> looks very resonable
[20:25:35] <__rob> tool grinder for £34
[20:25:48] <__rob> with that disc
[20:29:18] <gregcnc> got it sorted
[20:29:23] <PCW> gregcnc: it doesn't matter where the bitfiles are (as long as you give mesaflash a path to then)
[20:29:36] <PCW> s/then/them
[20:30:59] <PCW> you can load the new configuration into the FPGA with
[20:31:01] <PCW> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --reload
[20:31:48] <PCW> (to avoid a power cycle)
[20:42:49] <gregcnc> right it's talking now