#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-01-01

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[01:53:09] <chupacabra> happy happy
[02:55:35] <Deejay> moin
[03:25:12] <unfy> deejay o/
[04:26:21] <ReadError> Get:1 http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy/master-rt linuxcnc i386 1:2.8.0~pre1.1397.g0e089af [10.7 MB]
[04:26:23] <ReadError> nice
[05:36:07] <Guest29054> HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
[05:36:37] <pink_vampire> HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
[05:45:12] <Wolf_> meh
[05:55:14] <Deejay> stop shouting, Wolf_ has headache ;)
[05:55:34] <Wolf_> lol, nope
[05:55:50] <Deejay> happy new year everyone :)
[05:55:55] <Wolf_> just figuring its going to be the same old bullshit, just different year
[05:56:00] <Wolf_> :D
[06:02:13] <pink_vampire> there is vibration sensor?
[06:02:32] <pink_vampire> so I mesure the amplitud of the vibration..
[06:04:26] <archivist> the item you are looking for is accelerometer
[06:05:42] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLf9q36UsBk
[06:06:00] <pink_vampire> 7 hours ago..
[06:06:48] <pink_vampire> archivist: I have 3 axis analog accelerometer.
[06:07:52] <archivist> how they are made gives the highest frequency vibration they can measure
[06:08:27] <pink_vampire> I need the amplitud not the frequency
[06:10:29] <archivist> if it cannot see the frequency then the amplitude is also wrong
[06:10:43] <archivist> needs one for the other
[06:14:46] <pink_vampire> what about piezo electric or magnetic transducer?
[06:15:14] <archivist> I have piezo accelerometers
[06:15:54] <pink_vampire> it's common on intustrial machine to monitor vibrations levels?
[06:16:18] <archivist> on some machinery very common
[06:16:40] <archivist> usually machinery working 24/7 on a process
[06:17:16] <archivist> as the frequency of the bearing noise rises when they start to wear
[06:19:17] <archivist> hardly makes sense on a cutting machine as that sort of noise is a lot lower than the cutting noise, you can monitor the cutter with piezo and the spindle power used
[06:19:33] <Jymmm> If your bearings are doing this, you might consider replacing them soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6M-ruuRcXk
[06:22:30] <Jymmm> HNY!!!
[06:25:42] <pink_vampire> on the G0704 the bearings of the spindle very big to go with full ceramic
[06:27:29] <archivist> not worth doing that to one of those
[06:28:15] <pink_vampire> why?
[06:28:18] <archivist> that is like gold plating a Yugo
[06:28:33] <Wolf_> its like making a high tolerance hand drill
[06:28:35] <pink_vampire> glod plating is cheap..
[06:28:38] <pink_vampire> gold*
[06:29:39] <archivist> my xmas project http://www.archivist.info/cnc/wormtest/
[06:30:02] <Wolf_> lol wow that van norman is still for sale on craigslist...
[06:32:09] <Wolf_> G0704 isn’t the picture of a rigid machine in my mind
[06:33:36] <archivist> you dont start with a sow's ear to make a silk purse
[06:34:13] <Wolf_> use something heavy? http://i.imgur.com/nz3N5fC.jpg
[06:35:15] <archivist> very restorable
[06:35:27] <Wolf_> $500...
[06:35:33] <Wolf_> only bad part http://i.imgur.com/tiB9E3O.jpg
[06:36:33] <archivist> lack of tool change or cost of the collets ?
[06:36:41] <Wolf_> collet cost...
[06:37:18] <Wolf_> guess you could just get a 3/4” and mod it to use the TTS crap with it
[06:37:55] <archivist> make an ER collet chuck fit
[06:38:41] <Wolf_> yeah, thats sorta what I meant, use the tormach holders with it
[06:39:14] <Wolf_> but, still sucks that can’t really find shell mill holders and the likes
[06:40:32] <archivist> make tooling like shell mill holder
[06:40:49] <ReadError> oh wow
[06:40:57] <ReadError> tormach is rebranding linuxcnc and selling?
[06:41:12] <Wolf_> yeah, pretty much
[06:41:45] <Wolf_> put fancy front end on it with a couple added scripts
[06:42:47] <archivist> paid someone to improve the trajectory planner, that has been pushed back into linuxcnc
[06:44:01] <ReadError> oh they contributed back? nice
[06:55:46] <Jymmm> paid???
[06:57:14] <archivist> plenty of open source coders are paid for their work
[07:00:16] <anomynous> even more plenty are not
[07:00:16] <anomynous> :D
[07:08:02] <Jymmm> archivist: It wasn't so much the coder getting paid, as it was how the "paid" code gets used/incorporated back (dual licenses, etc)
[07:08:38] <Jymmm> anomynous: You do FPGA coding , don't you?
[07:08:54] <anomynous> no
[07:09:04] <Jymmm> oh, that's Andy, isn't it?
[07:09:33] <anomynous> me? No :D
[07:09:52] <anomynous> <- doesn't know people's real names.
[07:10:03] <Jymmm> ah
[07:10:13] <Jymmm> pun intended?
[07:10:51] * Jymmm wants an on demand wood boiler! =)
[07:13:33] <Jymmm> Zion NP http://i.imgur.com/GiIOjDB.jpg
[07:14:34] <Jymmm> Here's a xmas tree for ya… http://i.imgur.com/qoriaLL.jpg
[07:16:11] <Jymmm> Bryce Canyon http://i.imgur.com/pBQjU3P.jpg
[07:16:19] <archivist> Jymmm, no dual license needed for that part needed
[07:16:43] <Jymmm> archivist: ah
[07:24:12] <XXCoder> wow
[07:24:14] <XXCoder> nice pic
[07:36:31] <malcom2073> Wolf_: You still thinking about picking that up? heh
[07:47:04] <jthornton> I guess I need to learn about regex now
[07:48:42] <jthornton> or regexp
[07:49:47] <malcom2073> They're fun
[07:50:16] <jthornton> a little confusing at first for sure
[07:50:52] <malcom2073> Indeed, there are some online regex testers that are good for fiddling with them
[07:51:16] <jthornton> I saw the golang one
[07:52:15] <ReadError> doesnt help theres a few different 'standards'
[07:52:27] <jthornton> lol for sure
[08:48:40] <pink_vampire> one of my life goals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL35SAwDB6U
[08:53:08] <XXCoder> to make watches?
[08:54:35] <pink_vampire> yes
[08:54:49] <XXCoder> looks hard, nice to have goal though :)
[08:54:52] <pink_vampire> I hope I can to something with my machine..
[08:59:12] <pink_vampire> I'm really fasenating by the tourbillon
[08:59:39] <XXCoder> I watched few watch making videos
[08:59:43] <XXCoder> they all has weird tools
[09:00:37] <XXCoder> check this video https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/videos
[09:01:30] <pink_vampire> I know his channel
[09:02:33] <XXCoder> I dont plan to make any watch but his skilled videos are awesome.
[09:02:37] <XXCoder> captioned too if I recall
[09:08:20] <pink_vampire> I like his accent
[09:09:51] <archivist> you only see swiss and german machines in that watchmaking vid
[09:10:04] <Loetmichel2> anyone playing Elite dangerous in here?
[09:10:44] <Loetmichel2> [15:40] <Loetmichel2> *woha*, thats really pretty around here... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16098&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ( i should see to it that i correct the aspect ratio after rotating)
[09:10:45] <Loetmichel2> [15:40] <Loetmichel2> ... happy new year btw
[09:11:20] <XXCoder> happy new year all
[09:29:52] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: what kind of projects do you want to make on yor cnc?
[09:35:26] <malcom2073> happy new year!
[09:36:05] <pink_vampire> HNY malcom2073
[10:09:56] <pink_vampire> what kind of projects are you doind with your cnc machine?
[10:10:13] <JT-Shop-> damn static electricity is zapping my ass bad
[10:11:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: one part downey fabric softener, 3 parts water in a spray bottle.
[10:27:04] <JT-Shop-> spray my hair with that?
[10:28:48] <cncbasher> what hair , you actually have some left ?
[10:29:02] <cncbasher> happy newyear to all
[10:34:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: Spray the carpet with it. Will take multiple coats (over time) to build up and reduce the static build up
[10:35:39] <Jymmm> a video arcade had carpet and every time you touched a machine... ZAP! That reduced it down dramatically.
[10:36:05] <JT-Shop-> no carpet in a shop
[10:36:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: Then stop rubbing your legs together when you walk? Stop wearing silk/satin pants? lol
[10:37:25] <archivist> nylon socks for xmas?
[10:38:07] <JT-Shop> only cotton for me
[10:38:33] <JT-Shop> I did have a piece of carpet once in the machine shop... it was on top of the VMC and Woody slept on it
[10:40:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Turn off the tesla coil?
[10:40:55] <Jymmm> and jacobs ladder?
[10:44:45] <Jymmm> archivist: This is in three parts, would like to get your thoughts on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3i249KtB0o
[10:48:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, add a humidifier to the shop
[10:48:42] <Tom_itx> 35-40% RH should do it
[10:52:47] <JT-Shop> humidity is 40% now
[10:52:55] <JT-Shop> what would that do to the machines?
[10:53:31] <archivist> 40% is low, how did you manage that
[10:55:01] <JT-Shop> wood heater
[10:55:04] <Tom_itx> not high enough to cause rust
[10:55:08] <Tom_itx> wood heat dries the air
[10:55:29] <JT-Shop> outside it's 62%
[10:55:59] <JT-Shop> I used to boil water in a pot on top of the stove but tired of messing with it
[10:56:05] <Tom_itx> when the outside air freezes, the RH drops
[10:56:06] <Jymmm> Heh... 30F@89% RH here
[10:57:04] <Tom_itx> it's a shocking revelation to not boil water on the stove :)
[10:58:25] <JT-Shop> very
[11:02:16] <Erant> Damn. 1605 ball screws are really cheap.
[11:02:30] <Jymmm> 1.5" tall ice crystals that grow from the ground up in my front yard http://i.imgur.com/sQP7xoL.jpg?1
[11:02:38] <Erant> Much cheaper than the 1202 I was looking at. Probably not great quality, but $30...
[11:02:38] <archivist> the lower spec ones yes
[11:03:27] <Erant> Will probably still go with the 1202: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181968913568
[11:07:57] <archivist> Erant, looks like C3 spec, more accurate than the cheaper C5 spec screws
[11:08:33] <jdh> ground
[11:08:47] <Erant> And then the really cheap ones are C7
[11:10:42] * JT-Shop finds a #3 wash tub and puts it on the stove with 3 gallons of water
[11:10:54] <JT-Shop> RH down to 38% lol
[11:12:18] <Erant> Time to get zapped by just about everything?
[11:12:25] <Erant> That is seriously dry.
[11:12:52] <jdh> down to 74% here
[11:13:09] <bensbenz> Any lathe users around today?
[11:14:11] <os1r1s> Can you run a DC servo rated for 72C 40A off of a 60V supply with a 30 amp driver?
[11:14:48] <jdh> 72C?
[11:14:59] <archivist> bensbenz, always, in irc ask the real question
[11:15:10] <os1r1s> JT-Shop 72v
[11:15:13] <os1r1s> jdh ^
[11:15:27] <jdh> it will have less max rpm and less torque
[11:15:32] <archivist> if you want to kill the driver
[11:15:44] <os1r1s> archivist Thats what I was afraid of
[11:15:54] <bensbenz> archivist: ok, anyone use the patch that allows fanuc style tool changes e.g. T001 ?
[11:16:21] <archivist> bensbenz, still a user survey typw question :)
[11:16:32] <os1r1s> archivist This is for the Z axis, so its not quite as bad as an X/Y driver. But I'm guess that is irrelevant
[11:17:06] <archivist> depends if the driver has sensible current limit
[11:18:15] <bensbenz> lol, I just wanted to know if it still works on a current version of linuxcnc. the post I saw about it was from 2012.
[11:20:09] <Sync> archivist: if it is a proper DC servo driver it will have a current loop
[11:20:35] <archivist> I said limit not loop
[11:20:48] <pcw_home> Yeah most motor drives have current limiting so you will just not get maximum peak torque with a lower rated drives
[11:21:14] <Sync> if it has a loop it will have a limit
[11:22:26] <pcw_home> a simple HBridge will have current limiting, a torque mode (or stacked velocity,position loop) drive will have current control
[11:23:11] <Sync> huh, just because it is h bridge does not mean that it is limited
[11:24:21] <os1r1s> archivist Sync This is an AMC B30A8
[11:24:41] <pcw_home> no but any Hbridge used for motor control (what we are talking about) will have current limiting
[11:26:33] <pcw_home> the AMC has a current loop (30A peak 80V)
[11:28:02] <Sync> that's not true, I have repaired drives that did not have current limiting
[11:28:06] <Sync> they were old tho
[11:28:17] <os1r1s> pcw_home What does it mean that it has a current loop? Does that mean it will take care of itself or does that mean I need to wire up something extra?
[11:29:56] <jdh> it has a current limit pot
[11:30:12] <pcw_home> It means that the drive itself measures and controls the current to an external setpoint (in torque mode)
[11:30:56] <os1r1s> jdh Ok. That makes sense
[11:32:55] <pcw_home> current control and limit are separate things, that is in torque mode you
[11:32:56] <pcw_home> command a desired current via the analog input and the internal current loop
[11:32:58] <pcw_home> forces the motor current to be a value proportional to that input
[11:34:00] <pcw_home> the limit is set so you do not overcurrent your motor (you might damage a smaller motor with an overcurrent)
[11:36:20] <pcw_home> the current control runs all the time, current limit should not happen in normal operation
[11:39:11] <os1r1s> pcw_home Ok. Thx. I need to read up on this
[11:48:25] <pcw_home> so if you have a 40A peak current motor you could turn the 30A8 current limit all the way up (30A)
[11:48:27] <pcw_home> then you need to set you maximum acceleration so that you do not exceed 30A in normal operation
[11:48:28] <pcw_home> (it typically needs to be quite a bit lower to allow margin for cutting forces, friction, etc)
[11:50:26] <os1r1s> pcw_home So for a motor with 40a peak, I should really get a bigger driver
[11:50:52] <os1r1s> Like a 50a7
[11:50:55] <os1r1s> 50a8
[11:56:15] <pcw_home> yes but they are harder to find (the 30A8 is pretty common on Ebay)
[12:00:25] <os1r1s> pcw_home Ordered a PM-25MV and preparing to run it with a 7i77 setup
[13:29:24] <Jymmm> archivist: Any thoughts on that wood heated water setup?
[13:29:45] <malcom2073> Elaborate?
[13:30:22] <malcom2073> Oh found link
[13:43:22] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Once you've seen them all, tell me what you think
[13:43:33] <malcom2073> Hmm
[13:44:10] <malcom2073> I think it could benefit from a proper thermal link between the stove housing and that pipe
[13:46:05] <zeeshan> i really hate the holidays sometimes
[13:46:08] <zeeshan> everything is goddamn closed
[13:46:11] <zeeshan> i need a mixing valve
[13:46:14] <zeeshan> now!!!!!!!!
[13:46:18] <zeeshan> need my hot water
[13:46:27] <malcom2073> Everything is open here heh
[13:46:31] <zeeshan> really?
[13:46:43] <malcom2073> yeah. Places close early yesterday, and open late today, but it's 2pm, so business as usual
[13:46:50] <malcom2073> I just got back from home depot
[13:47:34] <zeeshan> bah just called
[13:47:35] <zeeshan> theyre closed
[13:47:56] <malcom2073> lame
[13:48:08] <zeeshan> maybe i need to cnc up a valve
[13:48:10] <zeeshan> :D
[13:48:44] <SpeedEvil> Or just have a bath
[13:50:36] <zeeshan> going to shower in my car's coolant !
[13:56:58] <Duc> lol
[14:05:46] <Jymmm> neverbuya_subaru: Just take a whore bath
[14:06:40] <Jymmm> neverbuya_subaru: mixing valve? Why kind of setup do you have?
[14:08:09] <bensbenz> First successful part in linuxcnc! happy cnc new year lol
[14:08:54] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I'd assume the kind that requires a mixing valve
[14:08:59] <malcom2073> my parents have that for their boiler system
[14:09:15] <Duc> bensbenz: what did you make
[14:09:17] <Jymmm> malcom2073: But I didn't think neverbuya_subaru had that
[14:09:18] <malcom2073> so they can keep the hot water tank at something like 60-80C
[14:10:50] <Jymmm> malcom2073: That "coil" doesn't have a lot of area, I won't think that it would get too hot since it's circulating 40+ gallons
[14:11:10] <Jymmm> don't*
[14:11:59] <bensbenz> Duc: just a simple lathe test part, .5 dia turned down to .25 relief cut and thread 1/4-20 3 tools no crashes perfect threads
[14:12:37] <bensbenz> if anyone needs a good post for HSMworks\Fusion360 I have one.
[14:12:48] <malcom2073> Yeah I'd imagine not
[14:12:57] <malcom2073> But, maybe it should be redesigned to get more hot?
[14:13:34] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Well, I think you then begin to get into the functionality of a wood fired boiler
[14:13:43] <malcom2073> Isn't that good?
[14:14:16] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Good question, that's why I was asking what archivist thought since he play with boilers and such
[14:14:25] <malcom2073> I thought he played with like
[14:14:27] <malcom2073> *huge* boilers
[14:14:28] <malcom2073> :P
[14:14:51] <Jymmm> malcom2073: The only thing I boil is eggs, mkay
[14:15:05] <malcom2073> Heh
[14:16:09] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Out wood stove we think might be causing respritory issues, so looking at alternatives
[14:16:34] <malcom2073> Yeah I can see that
[14:16:55] <bensbenz> feel like I wasted a year of my life running this lathe on mach3, so stupid, this is so much better now.
[14:16:59] <Jymmm> malcom2073: wood is still cheapest fuel compared to propane and electricity for heating.
[14:17:40] <malcom2073> Makes sense
[14:17:44] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Considering radiant floor heating; wood boiler and propane backup.
[14:17:46] <enleth> quick (?) DC servo question: if the specs for my servos (SEM MT30H4-44) indicate a voltage gradient of 44V/1000RPM and a maximum terminal voltage of 140V, which adds up to 3100RPM - but I am never going to want more than 2000RPM (and even that is just rapid traverse), am I safe saying "screw it" and getting 80V AMC drives which are cheaper and more common on eBay than 200V ones?
[14:18:37] <malcom2073> Hey, same motors I have iirc
[14:19:18] <enleth> this is probably a question of whether the drives are OK with being driven at maximum output voltage on a regular basis
[14:20:48] <enleth> I can get a bunch of 30A8s for a crazy low price, but even 6A20s are rare and expensive
[14:21:21] <enleth> I've seen maybe 5 200V AMCs over the last two months on eBay and they were all quite pricey
[14:23:58] <enleth> so I'm inclined to get the 80V drives which would theoretically give me 4550mm/min of traverse on my drive configuration
[14:24:18] <enleth> as opposed to 5000 I'm using now, a difference I can live with
[14:27:51] <andypugh> enleth: Sounds reasonable. But is there a danger that the motor back-emf might over-volt the drives on decel?
[14:28:52] <pcw_home> Thats always an issue if you dont have a brake
[14:29:31] <pcw_home> (shunt load on DC bus voltage )
[14:30:24] <enleth> andypugh: well, is there? No idea, I don't know how are the outputs protected on those AMCs
[14:30:42] <enleth> I guess I'd have to look up the datasheets
[14:31:05] <andypugh> I think you would want to wire a brake resistor if you were running near the drive max.
[14:31:07] <enleth> and measure the back-EMF on my motors?
[14:31:14] <pcw_home> the energy has to go somewhere when you decelerate (and normally its dumped back into the DC power supply)
[14:31:36] <andypugh> But I am not an expert, whereas PCW makes and sells drives, so listen to him :-)
[14:32:05] <enleth> but isn't it just proportional to what has been put into the motor and its load?
[14:33:00] <pcw_home> Yeah the closer you are to the drive voltage limit (so the less likely the output filter capacitor will
[14:33:02] <pcw_home> absorb the energy with a safe voltage rise) the more you need a brake circuit
[14:33:19] <enleth> I mean, a 140V max. motor driven at 80V, moving some mass with a given intertia, should produce the same amount of back-EMF as a 80V motor driven at 80V moving the same mass?
[14:33:31] <enleth> or am I getting my motors 101 wrong?
[14:34:00] <pcw_home> This is not back a EMF issue, this is a energy issue
[14:34:51] <enleth> OK, so it's just a matter of running the drives at maximum voltage, not of driving a motor that can theoretically accept much more
[14:35:52] <pcw_home> Yeah (though I guess backEMF could be an issue with a non-counter balanced Z with no mechanical brake)
[14:37:31] <enleth> I guess that's not a problem with my mill, the Z armature is pretty light being just a telescoping quill
[14:39:46] <pcw_home> if you use X Joules to accelerate, the drive will pump ~X Joules back into the motor power supplies
[14:39:47] <pcw_home> output filter capacitor when you decelerate if there is no load at this point, the capacitor voltage will rise
[14:39:49] <pcw_home> if the stored energy raises the DC supply voltage to a level that damages the drives, you lose
[14:40:05] <bensbenz> How can I prevent my spindle from "blipping" CCW when I start linuxcnc?
[14:40:29] <pcw_home> ( this is why drives have brake resistors )
[14:40:54] <andypugh> bensbenz: First work out why it is doing it
[14:41:30] <andypugh> How is the spindle controlled?
[14:41:38] <bensbenz> andypugh: well its setup stegen in velocity mode
[14:41:58] <bensbenz> andypugh: I think you were helping me in the forums yesterday
[14:42:08] <bensbenz> but on a different issue
[14:43:03] <bensbenz> andypugh: there was a forum post I came across a few days ago where someone had the same issue but for the life of me I cant find it again.
[14:43:06] <enleth> pcw_home: I just looked up the AMC datasheet for 30A8 and there's no mention of braking resistors or back-EMF
[14:43:14] <andypugh> It sounds like the pid is being enabled too early in the sequence (if there is a PID)
[14:43:43] <enleth> pcw_home: and they only give maximum input overvoltage rating, 86V
[14:44:48] <andypugh> The 15A8s on my coffee table have no braking resistor provision.
[14:46:09] <andypugh> bensbenz: Is the stepgen enable connected to an axis amp-enable or to motion.spindle-is-on?
[14:46:25] <enleth> I see they are offering "shunt regulators" that can be connected on the *input* terminals of the drive
[14:47:20] <enleth> the marketing blurb is written to suggest that the drive doesn't give a shit whether it's pumping power from the power supply to the motor or the other way around, so the regulator is there mostly to protect the power supply
[14:47:24] <andypugh> That makes some sense, I suppose.
[14:47:24] <enleth> interesting
[14:47:41] <enleth> http://www.a-m-c.com/products/shunt-regulators.html - "Overview" tab
[14:48:12] <bensbenz> andypugh: motion.spindle-on it says
[14:48:50] <andypugh> And the spindle amp-enable?
[14:49:35] <andypugh> It looks like the spindle drive is rotating without seeing any steps, unless is is being confused by seeing a single power-up step?
[14:50:05] <bensbenz> Maybe the second one. the other axis blip too
[14:50:31] <enleth> maybe I'll just call them and ask
[14:50:32] <bensbenz> I dont see a simple amp-enable for the stepgen thats used for the spindle
[14:51:28] <enleth> 30A8 is still being made, so I suppose they'd tell me, unless they have some kind of shitty support policy
[14:54:09] <Jymmm> anomynous: Meet Andy (andypugh), andypugh, meet andypugh ;)
[14:54:24] <Jymmm> anomynous: NOW you know somebody =)
[14:54:28] <anomynous> Jymmm, :D
[14:54:39] <anomynous> hello andy =)
[14:55:55] <pcw_home> I think most drives detect overvoltage and stop switching ( if done during deceleration, this lets the motors coast and stops
[14:55:56] <pcw_home> dumping power back into the DC supply) except it does dump any stored energy in the motors inductance (LI^2/2) back into the supply (filter capacitor)
[14:56:25] <bensbenz> andypugh: I found this: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/29908-help-with-2-issues-charge-pump-and-spindle-rev#65158
[14:56:32] <bensbenz> but i use a PP not a mesa card
[14:57:21] <pcw_home> so how much margin you need between DC supply voltage and drive max voltage without a brake depends on the size of your filter capacitor
[14:59:02] <andypugh> bensbenz: I thought that yours was a power-up problem? That one was slightly different.
[15:03:40] <enleth> pcw_home: fortunately this is probably the easiest thing to fix in the whole power system
[15:04:20] <enleth> (inrush current notwithstanding)
[15:05:38] <bensbenz> andypugh: mine will do it on powerup and occasionally when I command an M5
[15:06:48] <andypugh> bensbenz: Does your velocity ramp down, or does the step pulse stream just stop?
[15:08:07] <bensbenz> andypugh: I guess i could check that my watching if the VFD ramps down or just jumps to the lowest value?
[15:09:18] <andypugh> Halscope the stepgen velocity-fb pin
[15:09:39] <enleth> oh, the AMC drive provides a +/-10V power supply to make interfacing with the analog input, nice
[15:09:46] <enleth> *easier
[15:09:57] <bensbenz> ok will try now
[15:10:29] <andypugh> In the case on the forum I think the problem was that the motion pins (spindle rev) were changing state before the stepgen had ramped down. Your think is probably not that.
[15:10:37] <Erant> So here's a question. My Z-axis has a column, dovetails on one side (where the head is, obviously) and a leadscrew on the other side. Big arm that wraps around attaches it to head. I'm going to re-do the leadscrew portion. Right now sometimes the head will 'buck' a little when moving a little quickly. Would adding some bearings to ride on the back of the column help with stability?
[15:12:04] <andypugh> I buried my leadscrew inside the column. Much neater. On the down-side, it ruined the stiffness of the column.
[15:13:15] <andypugh> You have something like this arrangement? https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5398215426996934626
[15:14:26] <andypugh> I milled a slot in the front of the column, covered by a stainless strip https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5477167759873892978
[15:15:03] <andypugh> The strip goes round the “front” of this bracket in the head slider: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5477167946227993698
[15:15:30] <andypugh> But, as I said, the slot in the front converted the column to a wet noodle.
[15:16:34] <Erant> Interesting.
[15:17:06] <Erant> Yeah, I don't particularly feel like compromising the integrity of what is already not the stiffest of things.
[15:17:38] <bensbenz> andypugh: I only have stepgen.2. velocity-cmd or stepgen.2.position-fb
[15:18:11] <Erant> It's just the arm is rather long, and I actually don't think this arrangement was meant for continuous up-down motion. There's a "fine" adjustment knob on the front that moves the spindle up and down by about 1".
[15:18:59] <Erant> So I think I might try adding four or-so skateboard bearings to the back, that'll provide some stability. Maybe.
[15:19:01] <enleth> huh, just looked up the schematics of my mill, the current drive is getting about 360VAC through a non-isolating transformer
[15:19:05] <enleth> pcw_home: ^
[15:19:08] <andypugh> If I hadn’t given up on that machine and bought this one ( https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill#5901893705746525762 ) then I would have bolted a strip of 1” bar to the back to get the stiffness back
[15:19:16] <enleth> that's a pretty wonky configuration
[15:19:39] <Erant> Nice.
[15:19:55] <enleth> also, one side of the motor windings is connected to the 2nd phase directly - WTF?
[15:20:29] <enleth> I mean, this *is* 0V from the point of view of the drive and the motors
[15:20:31] <andypugh> enleth: Field winding perhaps?
[15:20:42] <Erant> andypugh: Going to ponder for a while...
[15:20:49] <Erant> Let's see how much a replacement column is.
[15:20:59] <Erant> In case I f it up
[15:21:38] <andypugh> To be honest, if your mill is one like that of mine, don’t spend any money making it better, save up for something competent :-)
[15:23:12] <Erant> It's not horrible. It's my first 'proper' mill, so I'm using it to learn.
[15:24:14] <enleth> andypugh: https://owncloud.hackerspace.pl/index.php/s/YxLzOP8Go3ar6sb - page 30
[15:24:17] <bensbenz> andypugh: if I watch either of those, went a turn off the spindle its just an abrupt stop
[15:24:35] <enleth> the transformer is right in the middle
[15:24:53] <enleth> actually I have to check which tap the second phase is connected to
[15:25:02] <enleth> the drive might just as well be getting 380V directly
[15:25:10] <enleth> as in, the transformer might not be doing anything at all
[15:25:48] <enleth> I'm not getting 420V in, I've got 400V p-p, no idea why the schematic defaults to the 420V input
[15:26:58] <enleth> There's also +/-150VAC going in
[15:27:58] <enleth> well, it's not like I have any use for this transformer when I replace the drive with AMCs
[15:33:31] <enleth> this Bosch drive is just one weird old piece of crap I think
[15:35:16] <enleth> it even looks like early 1970s
[15:36:30] <os1r1s> andypugh I saw that you had written the carousel module for linuxcnc. Is that a preferred way to do a turret type toolchanger, or is ladder logic preferred?
[15:37:36] <andypugh> It’s up to you.
[15:38:13] <andypugh> The carousel comp might be useful for a tool change sequence controlled by Ladder.
[15:38:30] <andypugh> But if the tool-change needs axis moves, then a G-code sub might be more convenient.
[15:40:24] <os1r1s> andypugh It does need axis moves ....
[15:43:06] <andypugh> enleth: They are taking single-phase power from the 3-phase supply. Wire 145 is being used as a neutral. Direct connection to the motor is a surprise, though. It looks like it uses the + / - 150V taps to reverse the motor.
[15:48:13] <enleth> don't want to think about it too much
[15:48:38] <enleth> I'm waiting for my Mesa order to arrive and looking for AMCs, then I'm getting rid of that weirdo ASAP
[15:49:51] <enleth> if I'm lucky, someone might even buy that
[15:50:01] <enleth> they seem to be selling rather well for repairs
[15:50:44] <os1r1s> Wow ... Those are some expensive brackets .... http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Mill-Limit-Switch-Kit-for-G0704/T25442
[15:51:19] <enleth> what
[15:51:37] <CaptHindsight> nah the brackets are ~$25, the wiring harness is $350
[15:51:41] <enleth> that's almost half the price of the mill
[15:52:22] <CaptHindsight> it's assembled by hand using the finest crimping tools
[15:52:38] <enleth> by the finest tiny chinese hands no less
[15:52:47] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight haha
[15:52:55] <CaptHindsight> bound fingers
[15:53:38] <CaptHindsight> it's takes a classroom nearly a day to assemble
[15:53:52] <neverbuya_subaru> anyone know a good brand jewelller allen key set
[15:53:55] <neverbuya_subaru> metric
[15:53:59] <enleth> wait, that's *more* than half price of the mill
[15:54:09] <enleth> I was looking at the mill with a stand
[15:54:22] <CaptHindsight> the mill is made by old farts with hand cramps :p
[15:54:27] <neverbuya_subaru> down to .7mm
[15:55:01] <CaptHindsight> neverbuya_subaru: I just bought a bunch of singles is all the smaller sized from McMaster
[15:55:08] <CaptHindsight> sized/sizes
[15:55:11] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.amazon.com/Moody-Tools-0-7mm-2-5mm-Mini-Driver/dp/B001J0YIE4
[15:55:13] <neverbuya_subaru> are these good?
[15:56:12] <enleth> is Stanley a thing in the US? as far as hardware store grade tools go, they do just fine
[15:56:58] <enleth> never had a dud, they must keep their chinese properly supervised or something
[15:57:10] <neverbuya_subaru> i dont give money to china
[15:57:12] <neverbuya_subaru> =P
[15:57:18] <neverbuya_subaru> ill give it to any other country but china!
[15:57:38] <neverbuya_subaru> at least i try not to :P
[15:59:32] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moody-6-pc-ESD-Fixed-Short-Handle-Hex-Drivers-Set-58-0349-/311385773332?hash=item488009d514:g:yiAAAOSw9N1VhZ4L
[15:59:35] <neverbuya_subaru> wow trhese are sexy
[16:00:14] <CaptHindsight> I couldn't find any sets that went below 1mm
[16:00:30] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiha-35392-5-Piece-Mini-L-Key-Short-Hex-Metric-Set-/161751205023?hash=item25a91f849f:g:vjUAAOSwgQ9VlFEQ
[16:00:32] <neverbuya_subaru> found something cheap
[16:00:32] <neverbuya_subaru> finally
[16:00:33] <neverbuya_subaru> yay
[16:00:38] <CaptHindsight> ... worth buying
[16:00:48] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Wiha-7-Piece-Metric-Hex-Driver-Set-26390-NIB-/291217133719?hash=item43cde4d097:g:mJgAAOSwVFlT67Tk
[16:00:50] <neverbuya_subaru> im grabbing these
[16:00:53] <neverbuya_subaru> they look top quality
[16:04:06] <andypugh> Wiha seem decent enough
[16:04:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-keys/=10hwbbo
[16:05:24] <CaptHindsight> I bought a few of each size <1.5mm and <1/16" for less
[16:06:04] <neverbuya_subaru> theyre moore money
[16:06:06] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-keys/=10hwce8
[16:06:13] <neverbuya_subaru> unknown brand as well
[16:06:32] <CaptHindsight> your money
[16:07:05] <os1r1s> Why do people seem to prefer optical switches on g0704 size mills rather than inductive or microswitches?
[16:08:18] <CaptHindsight> possible easy of mounting, cost and repeatability
[16:08:28] <CaptHindsight> easy/ease
[16:11:47] <andypugh> More modern?
[16:12:06] <andypugh> (Also, interface to 5V logic more easily than proxes)
[16:14:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-Optical-Endstop-Switch-CNC-3D-Print-RepRap-Makerbot-Prusa-Mendel-RAMPS-1-4-/181930764806 <$3ea
[16:15:23] <os1r1s> andypugh The second point I get. But why is it more modern?
[16:15:26] <CaptHindsight> even less http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Optical-Endstop-Switch-RepRap-Mendel-Prusa-RAMPS-V1-4-Arduino-3D-Printer-/181929588085
[16:17:45] <andypugh> os1r1s: It uses photons, not wires. I am not saying they _are_ more modern, just that they might seem that way to mini-mill refitters
[16:17:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-H21B4-Fairchild-Semiconductor-Slotted-Optical-Switch-Darlington-Output-/191354294418 100 pcs for $22.50
[16:18:14] <CaptHindsight> or best
[16:19:05] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z-BX-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Switch-NPN-DC-6V-36V-NEW-/191736625652?hash=item2ca464b9f4:g:UFkAAOSwvt1WQ~SR
[16:21:11] <andypugh> Though you want ones where the metal barrel comes right to the end for most machine-tool applications, so you can bury them in the machine out of the way: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LJ8A3-1-Z-BX-Tubular-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Switch-NO-DC6-36V-300mA-/400579264929?hash=item5d446281a1:g:leEAAOxy6MBSQupb
[16:22:13] <andypugh> Like this: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/HarrisonMill#5989135693933177186
[16:22:55] <CaptHindsight> I often find the inductive types to be too temperamental
[16:24:13] <CaptHindsight> but you have to keep the optical types in a relatively clean and dry area
[16:24:28] <CaptHindsight> dry and oil free
[16:25:33] <andypugh> I have unwired (in HAL) my optical limit switch on the lathe. Too much nuisance tripping. And the limits don’t do well at saving chuck or tailstock crashes.
[16:26:40] <andypugh> I used the new lathe today, I needed a bigger chuck. It’s a lot nicer than the Chinese horror.
[16:26:47] <os1r1s> There seem to be a lot of fancy enclosures for them
[16:26:57] <CaptHindsight> I leave room for cushion and use springs for stops
[16:27:01] <andypugh> Thought the 2.2kW VFD keeps tripping out with the 3hp motor.
[16:27:02] <bensbenz> os1r1s: I have the inductive on my G0704 and they are great, repeat to 4 tenths
[16:27:15] <os1r1s> bensbenz Got a pic?
[16:27:16] <bensbenz> and interface with my 24v control
[16:27:35] <bensbenz> Y axis I just used a magnet to attach it to the base lol
[16:29:31] <bensbenz> os1r1s: you can see Z in this vid https://www.instagram.com/p/9XaqVgRz3U/?taken-by=bens.benz
[16:30:13] <bensbenz> os1r1s: homing in this vid: https://www.instagram.com/p/3zyPV5xz1r/?taken-by=bens.benz
[16:30:32] <bensbenz> if you want I can take a pic of each if you want to see them, just let me know
[16:30:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.powellsurplus.com/picts/RockwellAnorad_e.jpg end of travel spring bumpers
[16:31:12] <andypugh> I am jealous of your order-of-magnitude-higher spindle speed.
[16:31:44] <bensbenz> haha, I think I am the first that got the acutal spindle of the g0704 to 10k
[16:32:00] <bensbenz> I can push the VFD and get the bearing max of 14k if I need to
[16:32:31] <andypugh> But then your machine probably couldn’t drive this cutter: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6230894959584883890
[16:32:58] <bensbenz> haha not a chance
[16:33:12] <andypugh> I amfinding the horizontal spindle surprisingly useful for jobs that are too big for the mill, really.
[16:33:13] <CaptHindsight> maybe for a few seconds before it tears itself free from the spindle
[16:33:37] <bensbenz> on highspeed pully I max at 3/8 DIA .250 DOC and 40IPM with HSM paths
[16:33:43] <bensbenz> in 6061
[16:33:55] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: whats the range of travel for the horizontal?
[16:34:00] <bensbenz> but i mostly work with .25 dia cutters and less
[16:34:01] <andypugh> I had to assemble this one in-situ: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6231236737028424114
[16:34:46] <bensbenz> I am developing a light to replace those crappy ikea ones, probably the first thing i make to sell
[16:34:51] <andypugh> I have 160mm Y and 250mm X. Z is variable depending on setup, but about another 350mm
[16:35:11] <andypugh> I like the Ikea lights, they are so cheap.
[16:35:33] <bensbenz> yea but they suck, wear out so fast and not very bright
[16:35:35] <andypugh> I run from a different 5V supply though.
[16:36:07] <andypugh> That one has been good for 2 years or so. It’s friend has been dead for 2 years or so. Not sure why.
[16:36:22] <CaptHindsight> I bought some goosneck lamps and just replaced the LED's with better ones
[16:37:09] <bensbenz> i meant the necks on them
[16:37:17] <CaptHindsight> 6500k LED's and then add a cheap suitable brick power supply
[16:37:30] <bensbenz> you bend them too much then they dont hold position any more
[16:37:40] <bensbenz> or you bump it ect
[16:38:12] <Tom_itx> so run wires thru a coolant gooseneck
[16:38:34] <bensbenz> loc line
[16:38:55] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: lol, those are for water currents not electrical :p
[16:39:15] <CaptHindsight> you'll upset the continuum
[16:42:08] <Tom_itx> they usually keep their position though
[16:42:47] <andypugh> Right, 2218. I really should find some food.
[16:45:15] <os1r1s> bensbenz What brand are they?
[16:45:34] <Tom_itx> ikea
[16:46:04] <bensbenz> os1r1s: they are fotek, got them on amazon
[16:46:28] <bensbenz> beware they are NOT coolant proof, for Y i had to cover it in silicon
[16:46:28] <JT-Shop> dang 76°F and 36%RH in the shop... too warm and too dry
[16:46:38] <bensbenz> they look sealed up, but they are not
[16:46:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, put a shower out there
[16:47:25] <JT-Shop> lol, no water in the shop/garage however there is a pipe ran between the house and the shop
[16:47:47] <Tom_itx> i had one to mine but it's disconnected right now
[16:47:59] <JT-Shop> no wait 35%RH now lol
[16:48:22] <Tom_itx> i thought you added a bucket
[16:48:38] <JT-Shop> yep, ain't had a chance to do much yet
[16:49:04] <CaptHindsight> too dry, I keep mine <40% RH
[16:49:05] <JT-Shop> maybe put a quart out
[16:50:05] <neverbuya_subaru> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6nmHTuzqowE/VhaPbgLGTBI/AAAAAAAABP0/hysv0vdZqN4/s640/Navitas%2B75view_W.jpg
[16:50:08] <neverbuya_subaru> holy cow
[16:50:14] <neverbuya_subaru> the sculpture i helped build
[16:50:25] <neverbuya_subaru> https://youtu.be/qpy6u6NQXq8?t=3
[16:50:38] <neverbuya_subaru> that bronze was a pain in the ass to tap
[16:50:39] <JT-Shop> cool
[16:51:07] <JT-Shop> what kind of lube did you use?
[16:51:24] <neverbuya_subaru> sulphur based oil
[16:51:36] <JT-Shop> try a bar of soap
[16:52:01] <neverbuya_subaru> its weird it turns fine
[16:52:06] <neverbuya_subaru> but drilling it is also hard
[16:52:14] <neverbuya_subaru> i think it work hardens like ss
[16:52:19] <malcom2073> neverbuya_subaru: Re: the router, seems if I do a box frame rather than the triangle frame I was looking at, I can cut my tube sizes in half, and get even less deflection, at the cost of some 1/4" aluminum sheeting (which I have laying around)
[16:52:40] <JT-Shop> might be too high rpm and too low feed for drilling
[16:52:43] <neverbuya_subaru> jthornton-: how is your shop so warm
[16:52:48] <neverbuya_subaru> :D
[16:52:55] <JT-Shop> wood heater
[16:53:01] <neverbuya_subaru> malcom2073: nice
[16:53:27] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/wood-heat/LogWood04.jpg
[16:53:28] <neverbuya_subaru> you exhaust the flue outside?
[16:53:31] <Deejay> gn8
[16:53:38] <neverbuya_subaru> looks toasty!
[16:53:41] <JT-Shop> the old logwood heater
[16:54:01] <JT-Shop> I don't run it that hard any more, got everything sealed off
[16:54:54] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/machines/machines-02.xhtml
[16:55:00] <JT-Shop> you like the feet?
[16:55:15] <neverbuya_subaru> looks nice
[16:56:28] <JT-Shop> thanks, I like adding details like the toes on the feet
[16:57:42] <neverbuya_subaru> how much did the cast iron burning oven cost?
[16:57:55] <JT-Shop> ~$200 maybe
[16:58:08] <neverbuya_subaru> not bad
[16:58:11] <neverbuya_subaru> :D
[16:58:24] <JT-Shop> it's a small one for 500 sq ft but it heats 2000 sq ft because of the insulation I have
[17:01:54] * JT-Shop should finish up the wiring on the BP but is worn out
[17:02:40] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/machines/machines-01.xhtml
[17:03:18] <andypugh> They only have 4 toes in Missouri?
[17:03:22] <Tom_itx> heh
[17:03:26] <Tom_itx> did you plasma them?
[17:03:33] <JT-Shop> lol, cartoon feet
[17:03:43] <JT-Shop> cut with an angle grinder
[17:03:51] <JT-Shop> my first machine I made http://gnipsel.com/shop/bench-grinder.xhtml
[17:03:58] <JT-Shop> I still have it
[17:04:37] <malcom2073> That looks fightening
[17:04:51] <JT-Shop> it still works
[17:05:09] <JT-Shop> I was 16 when I built that
[17:05:29] <neverbuya_subaru> haha are you running nomex
[17:05:37] <neverbuya_subaru> :D
[17:05:55] <JT-Shop> nomex?
[17:06:01] <neverbuya_subaru> for the cord
[17:06:01] <andypugh> I have one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPEED-CONTROL-2-2KW-3HP-220V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-10A-CE-NEW-/261978817637?hash=item3cff278465:g:PMYAAOSwHnFVsOAv
[17:06:06] <JT-Shop> lamp cord
[17:06:15] <andypugh> It keeps tripping out with my 3hp motor.
[17:06:22] <neverbuya_subaru> andypugh: china!
[17:06:24] <neverbuya_subaru> :-)
[17:06:26] * neverbuya_subaru hides
[17:06:37] <JT-Shop> might need a line reactor
[17:06:52] <neverbuya_subaru> you know i was looking at some of the vfds eaton now offers
[17:07:00] <neverbuya_subaru> all this line reactor filter bs is old school
[17:07:03] <andypugh> I wonder if I should try a 3kW (4hp) one, go for the 5hp version (still cheap) or buy one that is rated in Japanese or European kW.
[17:07:05] <neverbuya_subaru> most new drives come with them standard
[17:07:16] <neverbuya_subaru> andypugh: check out mvx9000 3hp
[17:07:21] <neverbuya_subaru> i have one
[17:07:28] <neverbuya_subaru> i see them on ebay for 200$ usd
[17:08:51] <andypugh> None in the UK
[17:08:58] <andypugh> And I need 240V inout
[17:09:08] <neverbuya_subaru> MVX003A0-2 is the 1ph 240v input
[17:09:10] <neverbuya_subaru> to 3hp out
[17:09:17] <neverbuya_subaru> but idont see any on ebay =/
[17:11:01] <Sync> andypugh: the omron mx2 are good
[17:15:06] <andypugh> And only 4x as expensive as the Huanyang. Probably 4x as good too, but I only need _slightly_ better, I think.
[17:17:35] <andypugh> To be honest, I will probably go for the £125 5Hp Huangyang which looks like it might fit in the existing space.
[17:19:55] <bensbenz> I have a KB genesis VFD that is pretty nice
[17:21:16] <andypugh> Actually, mine isn’t a Huanyang. It’s a Lovato.
[17:21:37] <andypugh> I don’t know whether that is better or worse than a Huanyang
[17:22:56] <Roguish> check it out: http://hackaday.com/2015/12/30/sourcing-your-cnc-tools-in-2016-buy-them/
[17:23:55] <andypugh> I wonder if this would work better? https://www.inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/Yaskawa-CIMR-VCBA0012BAA/
[17:24:14] <andypugh> I suspect that is is a genuine 3HP
[17:26:34] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: do you recall some Omron ac servos that you found for cheap a coupe of years ago? (or were they steppers ~size 23)
[17:26:56] <andypugh> Probably from FA-parts in Korea?
[17:27:11] <CaptHindsight> the power and price made it sound like they were almost a typo
[17:27:37] <CaptHindsight> might have been, I didn't save the link
[17:27:41] <andypugh> I think that they were. He didn’t send them :-)
[17:29:27] <CaptHindsight> when it sounds too good to be true .....
[17:30:41] <bensbenz> well shit, broke my tiny solid carbide boring bar
[17:31:21] <JT-Shop> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEtbfzMLVWU
[17:31:39] <CaptHindsight> it's ok, my fly cutter got loose and i was using the holder to cut :)
[17:32:43] <andypugh> They were listed at £36 for a 1kW Yaskawa servo. He cancelled my bid and doubled the price. Which was still astonishingly cheap, actually.
[17:32:49] <bensbenz> yea its only $27, just annoying
[17:33:23] <CaptHindsight> yeah, not happy when any tools snaps
[17:33:48] <CaptHindsight> but why is it always on Friday after 5?
[17:34:21] <CaptHindsight> or why does the tap break on the last hole?
[17:35:17] <JT-Shop> taps break when dull...
[17:36:42] <archivist> or in the battery drill
[17:36:46] <CaptHindsight> or when you get impatient, greedy or careless on the last hole
[17:37:58] <bensbenz> yea, cant get another till monday, have to grind something out of hss and use the dremel I guess
[17:38:25] <JT-Shop> I need to cut my beard off it is getting annoying and catching on things
[17:39:57] <JT-Shop> wow 75°F and 33%RH in the shop
[17:41:53] <malcom2073> Nice!
[17:42:05] <malcom2073> Mine is at like, 45F and 90%RH right now
[17:42:54] <JT-Shop> getting zapped every time I touch something lol
[17:43:46] <archivist> plastic shoe soles
[17:44:13] <JT-Shop> then I can take the wire that is taped to my finger off?
[17:44:58] <archivist> you need conductive soles, plastic insulate, I think leather is better
[17:45:22] <JT-Shop> is concrete conductive?
[17:45:35] <archivist> yes if damp
[17:45:56] <JT-Shop> very dry now
[17:46:44] <t12> the mosfets are winning thus far
[17:46:59] <JT-Shop> as opposed to?
[17:47:09] <malcom2073> losing
[17:47:19] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:47:36] <DaViruz> :D
[17:47:43] <archivist> in some electronics areas some effort is made to make the flooring conductive
[17:47:54] <JT-Shop> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJY8jJkDoMY
[17:48:09] <DaViruz> there are plastic soled shoes which are conductive as well
[17:48:20] <DaViruz> for use in esd sensitive areas
[17:48:29] <malcom2073> We have some ESD carpeted areas at my work
[17:48:52] <malcom2073> They shoe straps you're supposed to put on that conducts youto the floor
[17:49:36] <JT-Shop> better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp-dO8fN4_k
[18:03:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: 75?! What you do, catch the oil on fire?
[18:05:13] <os1r1s> bensbenz Great part3 vid of the lathe conversion
[18:07:57] <bensbenz> os1r1s: part3? is that the latest one?
[18:08:11] <os1r1s> bensbenz The threading
[18:09:19] <bensbenz> yea, ok thx
[18:10:05] <bensbenz> yea the lathe is running 98% now
[18:10:05] <os1r1s> The nut spin at the end was funny
[18:11:05] <bensbenz> yeah, what good is threading without a test right?
[18:24:09] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: artwork mostly, and other stuff
[18:24:13] <PetefromTn_> Hey folks
[18:24:31] <PetefromTn_> whatsgoinon in CNC land :D
[18:25:32] <XXCoder> yo PetefromTn_ not much apparently
[18:25:39] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ Hey Pete
[18:25:45] <PetefromTn_> hey guys
[18:25:57] <PetefromTn_> I have been working out in my shop most of the day
[18:26:07] <PetefromTn_> and I did not even turn on a damn machine all day LOL
[18:28:46] <Tom_itx> how is that even possible?
[18:29:18] <bpuk> One word. Files. *shudder*
[18:29:24] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx LOL we got those sweet kayaks for Christmas and were so excited about them we did not even stop to consider WHERE WE WERE GONNA PUT THEM!!
[18:29:42] <PetefromTn_> but there is good news
[18:29:50] <jdh> build a kayak shed
[18:29:53] <PetefromTn_> the big ones are 13 feet long
[18:30:03] <PetefromTn_> and my ceiling is 9.5 feet
[18:30:25] <Tom_itx> i tied my topper to the celing with straps
[18:30:25] <PetefromTn_> I have an area on one side of the shop where I cut up into the attick to allow me to store long pieces of wood trim etc
[18:30:49] <PetefromTn_> I would strap it to the ceiling but there are four of them
[18:30:50] <Tom_itx> then all i had to do was drive under it and lower it
[18:31:18] <Sync> cut the tips off PetefromTn_
[18:31:19] <PetefromTn_> and if I put them on the ceiling it would A be a pain in the ass and B take up the whole damn ceiling so my lighting would be for shit worse than it already is hehe
[18:31:46] <PetefromTn_> so we are putting them vertically along the wall that the trim goes thru the ceiling
[18:32:01] <PetefromTn_> which of course had TONS of old crap and junk up in the attick above it
[18:32:31] <PetefromTn_> so what turned from just moving some stuff along a wall became a complete gutting of the junk in my attick which is a TON of shit
[18:32:34] <Tom_itx> store em outside
[18:32:40] <Tom_itx> they _are_ waterproof
[18:33:00] <PetefromTn_> my van is totally full of junk and I could probably make two more trips to the dump and still have stuff left up there
[18:33:10] <Tom_itx> build a rack on the backside of your garage
[18:33:14] <PetefromTn_> Yeah they are of course waterproof but the sun kills them
[18:33:28] <PetefromTn_> I want to keep them stored safely inside
[18:33:48] <PetefromTn_> and honestly putting them vertically they will not take up much floor space actually
[18:33:58] <PetefromTn_> they are only like 15 inches deep
[18:34:31] <DaViruz> a friend of mine has a lathe with a 4 jaw chuck that is both self centering, as well as individually adjustable
[18:34:34] <PetefromTn_> I also want to be able to access them quickly whenever we want to go out on them so this is just pull them off the wall and stuff em in the van and go
[18:34:44] <DaViruz> anyone know where you can find a chuck like that?
[18:36:36] <PetefromTn_> so I cut the hole a bit wider and honestly it forced me to do some MAJOR cleaning and reorganizing out there and actually my wife helped me haul the stuff from the attick and now our attick is actually cleaner and has TONS more room.
[18:37:24] <PetefromTn_> amazing how much shit you accumulate over the years....or maybe I am just a hoarder ;)
[18:40:51] <PetefromTn_> Still got a bunch of cleaning to do but this should allow me to get back to work on the CNC lathe retrofit and have some damn room to move around in.
[18:50:01] <renesis> most electronics or fabrication geeks seem to hoard to some degree
[18:50:10] <renesis> its very expensive not to
[18:50:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah I honestly hate to get rid of a lot of that stuff but it has been up there for years now and I guess if I have not done anything with it yet I probably won't.
[18:51:29] <malcom2073> Nooooo. keep it forever!
[18:51:58] <PetefromTn_> Can't man its in my damn way ;)
[18:52:22] <PetefromTn_> I threw away a couple single phase motors that need capacitors too
[18:52:30] <PetefromTn_> they are just not getting used
[18:52:41] <PetefromTn_> one was from my old RF45
[18:52:52] <PetefromTn_> don't remember where the other one was from
[18:53:10] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna be buring a bunch of this crap tomorrow too
[18:53:24] <malcom2073> Ah yeah broken stuff is another matter
[18:53:28] <malcom2073> "It just needs one small part to work!"
[18:53:40] <PetefromTn_> there was also a TON of that shit masonite siding that was on my house when I bought it before we resided it
[18:54:00] <PetefromTn_> that stuff breaks into smaller pieces easily tho so we just busted it up and it will get burnt
[18:54:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah just a start cap or something
[18:54:46] <PetefromTn_> I was going to fix it but the lathemaster guy just sent me a new one when it failed so I just put it in the attick and installed the new one.
[18:55:18] <PetefromTn_> I really need to get some of those nice heavy duty garage shelves to get some stuff consolidated better
[19:08:59] <jdh> rent a dumpster when you move
[19:11:47] <PetefromTn_> well hopefully we will have purges all our shite before then :D
[19:14:04] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: What dsort of Files? Bastard? Second Cut? Smooth? Paper? Computer?
[19:30:27] <PetefromTn_> andypugh not sure what you mean?
[19:33:53] <andypugh> You said you had been engaged in work with files all day.
[19:34:12] <andypugh> There are many sorts of files.
[19:34:28] <andypugh> Some are useful for shaping metal, some less so.
[19:47:46] <os1r1s> bensbenz Around?
[20:20:58] <os1r1s> pcw_home Do you know if an inverted inhibit on the servo driver would matter to me? Or I can work around it?
[20:23:09] <FloppyDisk> os1rls: you should be able to invert the signal from Lcnc to make it the correct signal.
[20:23:51] <FloppyDisk> IMO, this is a LCNC setup question and would have to do w/ your configuration files and setup.
[20:24:24] <FloppyDisk> I would guess you could put a not (like !=) in hal file for that signal based on what you need.
[20:24:27] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk As long as I can make it work, thats great
[20:24:39] <FloppyDisk> I don't know how to do it off hand, but it shouldn't be that hard.
[20:24:45] <os1r1s> But I think the inhibit on a servo is for something different
[20:25:07] <FloppyDisk> My guess the inhibit is to 'stop' the drive from running.
[20:25:36] <FloppyDisk> Some drives have an enable, do you have an enable as well, maybe the inhibit is the enable, sounds like a chinese drive to me - which is just fine.
[20:25:39] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk I'm not sure if that is normally set to an output from linuxcnc or its connected to say, the limit swtiches
[20:26:11] <FloppyDisk> Normally is based on how the designer wants to do it and can be done either way...
[20:26:14] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk Ahh, yeah, its for limit switches
[20:26:42] <FloppyDisk> The issue w/ the limits is that you want some way to 'tell' LCNC that you hit a limit. So, the way I'd do it is to have the limits
[20:27:00] <FloppyDisk> go into LCNC and then an 'enable' to the drives that LCNC auto-magically controls.
[20:27:08] <FloppyDisk> But, that's not to say you have to do it that way:-)
[20:27:55] <FloppyDisk> Oh, to be clear, the 'enable' is an output from LCNC. On my system, a 5i25/7i77, I have one enable that closes a relay that enables x, y, and z.
[20:28:16] <FloppyDisk> I would do it separately, but I was retrofitting and lazy:-) So, just went w/ it and it works for me at this point.
[20:28:45] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk Gotcha. Isn't there a pin that is daisy chained between the drives though?
[20:28:47] <FloppyDisk> So - if I hit any limit, LCNC kills the relay (turns output off), and all my drives shutoff.
[20:28:50] <os1r1s> So if one faults they all fault?
[20:29:34] <FloppyDisk> On mine, they all shutoff. I wouldn't say fault because a drive fault is that the drive exceeds a current limit or position limit of some sort. On mine, LCNC 'shuts off' the drives.
[20:30:11] <os1r1s> So you have a DC relay that kills the power to the drives on fault
[20:30:15] <FloppyDisk> Your pin question - I have enable inputs on the drives that are probably in parallel (not sure actually) from the relay.
[20:30:38] <FloppyDisk> My relay - yes - I think it kills power.
[20:30:57] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk Steppers are much simpler :P
[20:31:10] <FloppyDisk> NOTE - depends on your system and how you want to shutdown... All this can be tricky (not hard) or more involved than you would think...
[20:31:32] <FloppyDisk> Yes - steppers can be much easier and I would recommend them for the smaller machines, but servo's are kick=butt, but they take a certain
[20:31:39] <FloppyDisk> knowledge to get them going well...
[20:32:07] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk Well, I want to do this well ...
[20:32:08] <FloppyDisk> Actually, for most diy smaller machines, steppers are definitely the way to go for ease of setup.
[20:32:28] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk So steppers on the taig/sherline make sense. This is for a pm-25mv and I'd like to use servos
[20:32:37] <os1r1s> Even though I'm sure steppers can do.
[20:32:54] <FloppyDisk> I'm sure they can as well. but, if you want to go servo's, sounds great!
[20:33:11] <FloppyDisk> I did see the pm-25mv and that would be fine.
[20:33:23] <os1r1s> FloppyDisk What size machine do you have?
[20:33:24] <bensbenz> os1r1s: are servos worth the extra hassle?
[20:33:32] <FloppyDisk> Back to your inhibit, I would have that as an output from LCNC.
[20:34:19] <bensbenz> steppers get me easily within .001 just about everyday
[20:34:47] <FloppyDisk> I have a supermax-ym16 (I think... hahah) http://www.ijohnsen.com/blog/supermax-pics/
[20:34:53] <malcom2073> bensbenz: Servos get you there faster and more reliable.
[20:35:08] <malcom2073> I converted my mill from servos to steppers just because it was so much easier to set up, cheaper, and I didn't need the speed
[20:35:28] <bensbenz> on a small machine, you need to go faster than 150 ipm?
[20:35:32] <FloppyDisk> Steppers should be fine if you size them correctly and don't over accellerate and keep them at decent speed. highly recommended.
[20:35:44] <FloppyDisk> Exactly on the ipm, you don't need to go that fast!
[20:35:45] <bensbenz> i never lose steps
[20:36:02] <malcom2073> The big thing is, you have to know your limits. With servos, they tell you their limits
[20:36:08] <os1r1s> Part of this is about the learning experience. Working with something new.
[20:36:17] <bensbenz> maybe 10 years ago steppers sucked, i dont know, but i never had an issue
[20:36:29] <malcom2073> However, your experience is hardly a replacement for science :P
[20:36:32] <FloppyDisk> Servo's are cool, though... and the feedback will keep you on track...
[20:36:36] <os1r1s> And I figure with ballscrews and servos, it should be accurate, fast, and new
[20:36:59] <bensbenz> i always wondered about servos, so they will tell you when they are off, but doesnt it still stop?
[20:36:59] <FloppyDisk> Actually, the resolution of a stepper in microstepper 'can' be finer than servo's as encoders are around 2000 or 4000 steps/rev.
[20:37:20] <malcom2073> bensbenz: Depends on your configuration
[20:37:26] <malcom2073> if your error goes past your maximum follow error, it will fault
[20:37:30] <malcom2073> and stop
[20:37:37] <FloppyDisk> For the servo's you set a bandwidth or error window. Within the window, it keeps chugging, outside the window, then you get an 'out of position' error...
[20:37:38] <bensbenz> i mean if it over traveled so what if you know the part is scraped anyways no?
[20:38:27] <bensbenz> i get it on a big machine, I just never understood it on a machine that was a converted desktop style.
[20:38:27] <malcom2073> bensbenz: Right, but you'll know it's about to overtravel before it overtravels, you can *tell* when you're getting close to the limit, where with steppers you only know you're over the limit when you lose a step
[20:38:29] <FloppyDisk> If you go out of that error window, yeah, your part is scraped...
[20:38:34] <os1r1s> bensbenz Maybe it stops before you break more than the part.
[20:38:53] <bensbenz> i guess, you planning on production?
[20:39:17] <bensbenz> I am planning on production, and i quickly realized time for real machine lol
[20:39:20] <FloppyDisk> With the servo, it'll correct, but the stepper will keep losing steps until you notice. Again, properly sized steppers will run all day!
[20:39:41] <FloppyDisk> Sorry - gotta run, wife todo list calls.
[20:40:02] <os1r1s> bensbenz So what are you moving to?
[20:40:13] <bensbenz> HAAS DT-1
[20:40:14] <malcom2073> I'd love to convert back to servos, just because I'd gain a decent amount of speed
[20:40:17] <malcom2073> it sucks jogging at 30IPM heh
[20:40:29] <bensbenz> malcom2073: yes that would suck
[20:40:54] <malcom2073> Being as I'm not in production, it's not a killer to do so, it's just an annoyance :P
[20:41:39] <bensbenz> os1r1s: i know some people would say HAAS isnt that great, but for the money and the fact i know some people at HAAS seems like a pretty awesome small machine.
[20:41:45] <neverbuya_subaru> nice mill floppydiskp
[20:42:15] * Jymmm just got a subaru!
[20:43:49] * Jymmm pets neverbuya_subaru
[20:44:18] <os1r1s> bensbenz Can you answer a question about one of your pictures on instagram? There was a post 10W ago, but I can't link to the exact video.
[20:44:38] <bensbenz> yea whats the question?
[20:45:36] <bensbenz> mill or lathe?
[20:45:47] <enleth> bensbenz: open-loop control is just bad, end of story
[20:45:55] <enleth> *whatever* goes wrong and you don't even know it
[20:46:09] <neverbuya_subaru> http://i.imgur.com/yValqti.jpg
[20:46:13] <neverbuya_subaru> man that plastic is KICKINg my ass
[20:46:21] <neverbuya_subaru> reverse modeling it
[20:46:55] <Jymmm> neverbuya_subaru: wth is it?
[20:46:56] <os1r1s> bensbenz mill
[20:47:01] <PetefromTn_> andypugh sorry man I was out in the shop trying to tidy things up. No I don't remember saying anything about working with files but who knows ;) I was cleaning up tons of junk and stuff I don't need anymore.
[20:48:01] <neverbuya_subaru> hmm i might need to manually probe this thing on the mill
[20:48:01] <bensbenz> enleth: i maintain that a properly setup machine will run just fine open loop, its real world experience not theory
[20:48:04] <neverbuya_subaru> with a dial indicator
[20:48:12] <neverbuya_subaru> i have a 5" travel indicator
[20:48:23] <Jymmm> neverbuya_subaru: wth is it?
[20:48:33] <neverbuya_subaru> this is the time i wish i had a faro arm :(
[20:48:35] <malcom2073> Lol that's ghetto neverbuya_subaru
[20:48:38] <bensbenz> enleth: of course I am referring to a converted machine in my garage
[20:48:45] <neverbuya_subaru> malcom2073: gotta do what you gotta do man!
[20:48:52] <Jymmm> neverbuya_subaru: wth is it?
[20:48:54] <neverbuya_subaru> need a faro
[20:49:15] <enleth> bensbenz: but... why?
[20:49:22] <enleth> lower price, maybe?
[20:49:29] <enleth> I see no other reason.
[20:49:36] <malcom2073> Lower price, ease of hardware
[20:49:41] <malcom2073> No waiting 3 week lead time on mesa hardware :P
[20:49:56] <enleth> well you can drive a stepper with an arduino, I'll admit that
[20:50:03] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I think neverbuya_subaru has me on ignore! lol
[20:50:11] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Possible, I sometimes think about it :P
[20:50:11] <bensbenz> enleth: lower price, easier to setup, easier to maintain ect....
[20:50:18] <malcom2073> neverbuya_subaru: What is that thing?
[20:50:28] <enleth> but if you are technically capable of using a servo, use a servo
[20:50:29] <neverbuya_subaru> malcom2073: water dispenser lol
[20:50:33] <neverbuya_subaru> some fancy one
[20:50:35] <malcom2073> neverbuya_subaru: Huh?
[20:50:46] <malcom2073> neverbuya_subaru: You have Jymmm on ignore?
[20:50:49] <Jymmm> with speakers?
[20:50:51] <neverbuya_subaru> ya
[20:50:52] <bensbenz> enleth: i guess i am too cheap to buy hardware worth 4x the price of the machine its going on
[20:50:54] <malcom2073> Haha awesome.
[20:51:05] <bensbenz> enleth: it just doesnt compute in my head
[20:51:08] <enleth> bensbenz: me too, so buying used stuff
[20:51:16] <malcom2073> Even used servo stuff isn't cheap
[20:51:33] <enleth> I don't know how, but AMCs are dirt cheap
[20:51:40] <bensbenz> enleth: then you got to dick with it, i like to make parts not play with my machines all day, but i understand for some thats part of the joy of it all
[20:52:08] <Jymmm> malcom2073: What neverbuya_subaru doens't realize is that payback is a bitch =)
[20:52:17] <malcom2073> enleth: True, but dirt cheap is still easily 5x more than steppers
[20:52:20] <malcom2073> and that's used
[20:52:20] <enleth> bensbenz: maybe I'm just fed up with steppers, too much time spent playing with 3D printers
[20:52:39] <bensbenz> enleth: now that i get... seen some pretty bad ones
[20:52:50] <malcom2073> Haha, well yeah, you play with crap drivers and controls, you're gonna have a bad opinion of steppers
[20:52:59] <bensbenz> enleth: but no servo is going to help with how shitty some of those printers are made
[20:53:20] <enleth> the pain is that I used drives that were supposed to be good
[20:53:37] <Jymmm> enleth: which ones?
[20:53:48] <bensbenz> enleth: i just get chinese stuff from keling\automation technologies and it always works
[20:54:04] <enleth> Jymmm: Geckos, some drivers based on Allegro Micro chips
[20:54:17] <bensbenz> helps i can speak their language, that still surprises them when I go in there and a white boy knows what they are talking about... lol
[20:54:32] <malcom2073> geckos are amazing, the allegro micro ones are poo
[20:54:33] <Jymmm> enleth: iirc geckos are NOT allergo based
[20:54:56] <malcom2073> If you got a "gecko" with an allegro micro chip inside, you got a clone :P
[20:55:03] <enleth> Jymmm: yes, they are not, I meant to say that I used Gecko *and* some other type, can't recall now
[20:55:11] <Jymmm> enleth: and allegro do NOT have mid-band compensation, geckos DO.
[20:55:18] <Jymmm> enleth: ah
[20:55:32] <malcom2073> mid-band compensation makes a WORLD of difference at 3d printing speeds
[20:55:44] <enleth> The only steppers I've been happy with are Nanotec PD series, but they are factory matched with a built-in drive, have an encoder and can emulate a servo externally
[20:56:21] <enleth> They also run Java, which may be considered a bug or a feature
[20:57:30] <bensbenz> enleth: java is a bug if its anyhting like PC java
[20:57:33] <enleth> (seriously though, you can program them to react to limit switches on their own even if the control hangs up and tells them to keep going, they have some GPIO pins)
[20:57:48] <enleth> bensbenz: no, it's a very basic CLDC JVM
[20:58:21] <enleth> doesn't have GC (so no dynamic allocation), standard library is stripped down to a bare minimum
[20:58:40] <enleth> just enough to handle serial, some math and motor control
[20:59:58] <enleth> I have two of those, keeping them as test motors and I mostly lend them to friends building small CNC stuff
[21:00:41] <enleth> so that they can test the mechanical design without worrying about sizing motors and drivers properly
[21:01:34] <enleth> they're NEMA 23 so they fit most desktop designs
[21:02:46] <enleth> I keep them configured for a limit switch on one pin and step/dir control, so it's a safe drop-in replacement
[21:03:44] <enleth> but they do have torque, velocity and position control
[21:04:19] <neverbuya_subaru> a stepper is like a car w/ a rotary engine
[21:04:29] <neverbuya_subaru> a servo is like a car w/ a v8 =-)
[21:04:31] * neverbuya_subaru hides
[21:05:34] <bensbenz> neverbuya_subaru: lolz i think we got it
[21:05:59] <bensbenz> servos on my machine is like sticking a V8 into a minibike
[21:06:08] <bensbenz> im sure its possible, but whats the point
[21:06:15] <neverbuya_subaru> steppers to me don't make sense on a milling application
[21:06:24] <neverbuya_subaru> where positional accuracy and repeatability is pretty important
[21:07:16] <bensbenz> my machine does it everyday with steppers
[21:07:49] <neverbuya_subaru> do you have metrology equipment to inspect your parts?
[21:08:27] <bensbenz> dont need to, parts fit into other parts that come from other places, thats more than good enough... its not a grinder its a milling machine
[21:08:36] <bensbenz> im not making airplane parts
[21:09:05] <neverbuya_subaru> oki
[21:09:13] <bensbenz> people get way to caught up in things being down to the tenth when its probably 99% not needed
[21:09:22] <bensbenz> espically for a guy in his garage
[21:09:27] <neverbuya_subaru> talk for yourself :)
[21:09:53] <Erant> bensbenz: What machine do you have?
[21:09:57] <bensbenz> if I was a pro shop it would be a different story, but I wouldnt be on here talking about lcnc either
[21:10:05] <bensbenz> Erant: g0704
[21:10:09] <neverbuya_subaru> so you don't think pro machines would run linuxcnc?
[21:10:10] <neverbuya_subaru> :)
[21:10:11] <Erant> I put servos on my little machine.
[21:10:12] <neverbuya_subaru> ouch!
[21:10:34] <Erant> My machine's smaller than the g0704, and it's performing really well with some 200W 48VDC 5A servos.
[21:10:35] <bensbenz> i dont think theres a pro machine i would buy today for a production environment that runs lcnc... do you know of one?
[21:10:57] <Erant> bensbenz: Tormach's based on LinuxCNC, if I recall correctly.
[21:11:03] <neverbuya_subaru> erant tormach is a joke
[21:11:03] <neverbuya_subaru> :)
[21:11:09] <bensbenz> I dont consider those a pro machine
[21:11:16] <enleth> bensbenz: there's this guy who converted a mindboggingly fucking enormous mill to linuxcnc and he's using it commercially
[21:11:25] <bensbenz> i went to their open house...
[21:11:26] <neverbuya_subaru> enleth: that big ass 5 axis is crazy
[21:11:36] <enleth> neverbuya_subaru: yes, that one
[21:11:41] <enleth> bensbenz: let me find the vid
[21:11:41] <neverbuya_subaru> bensbenz: tier 1 supplier i doubt it
[21:11:48] <neverbuya_subaru> even tier 2
[21:11:52] <bensbenz> enleth: i am not saying it doesnt exist, but he didnt buy it new that way right?
[21:11:54] <neverbuya_subaru> its cause most people don't know how to use it
[21:12:02] <neverbuya_subaru> people are used to sinumerik, fanuc
[21:12:17] <bensbenz> and im not saying lcnc isnt capable of pro level work, i just converted my lathe and its awesome
[21:12:29] <neverbuya_subaru> it sounded like that :P
[21:12:33] <enleth> bensbenz: https://youtu.be/mxxdq6y8z8M?t=45s
[21:12:52] <enleth> bensbenz: he's got a whole factory floor full of machines like this running linuxcnc
[21:13:00] <neverbuya_subaru> i doubt you'll see linuxcnc at a tier 1 anytime
[21:13:16] <neverbuya_subaru> no one is to blame is things go wrong :P
[21:13:20] <bensbenz> are they all that slow?
[21:13:40] <bensbenz> thats from 2008 anyways, its 2016 man, different world
[21:14:04] <enleth> bensbenz: the iron is 1970s or something, no wonder it's slow
[21:14:15] <neverbuya_subaru> thats jus tbeing run in test mode
[21:14:15] <neverbuya_subaru> fyi
[21:14:21] <bensbenz> enleth: kinda proving my point
[21:15:42] <bensbenz> its just a different world altogether, you would have to be an expert at lcnc which I am sure takes quite a while, for it to make any sense to use it in a fast moving production environment.
[21:16:40] <neverbuya_subaru> bensbenz: you can't call someone to your faiclity
[21:16:41] <bensbenz> the support you get from a tier 1 vendor is required. one person cant know everything about everything, i have had to learn myself
[21:16:43] <neverbuya_subaru> to fix your machine though!
[21:16:51] <neverbuya_subaru> thats the main prob i think
[21:17:25] <bensbenz> right, thats what i mean you would need 1-2 people on staff that were experts. no one to call for help and time is money in production
[21:18:04] <neverbuya_subaru> after the stepper based lathe conversion
[21:18:08] <neverbuya_subaru> man ill never go stepper again
[21:18:17] <neverbuya_subaru> but i run my machines hard :P
[21:18:22] <neverbuya_subaru> so that might be part of the prob
[21:18:43] <enleth> eh, if it doesn't survive being handled hard, it was crap
[21:18:55] <neverbuya_subaru> so easy to skip steps on the 1200oz-in motors
[21:18:56] <neverbuya_subaru> on the lathe
[21:18:57] <neverbuya_subaru> :(
[21:19:01] <neverbuya_subaru> would do it randomly too!
[21:19:08] <enleth> I take this attitude towards any hardware I own and it's fine, I just end up keeping the stuff that wasn't crap
[21:19:09] <neverbuya_subaru> got sick of it pretty quick
[21:21:27] <Erant> I ended up spending about $300 for my full servo solution. I would've saved maybe $150 going for steppers. Not worth it especially considering I wouldn't get nearly the rapids I get now.
[21:22:01] <neverbuya_subaru> speed is nice
[21:22:08] <neverbuya_subaru> but i think the closed loop feedback is super important
[21:22:15] <neverbuya_subaru> cause you ferror out if things go wrong
[21:22:16] <neverbuya_subaru> and you know!
[21:22:29] <enleth> and the part may end up being recoverable
[21:22:36] <neverbuya_subaru> yes!!
[21:22:43] <neverbuya_subaru> i scrapped a very expensive bronze piece
[21:22:46] <neverbuya_subaru> on the stepper lathe
[21:22:48] <neverbuya_subaru> was so pissed
[21:23:10] <enleth> especially when you *lose* a step and you immediately know it - usually it means that the cut didn't go as far as intended so the piece isn't ruined yet
[21:23:11] <neverbuya_subaru> couldn't fix it cause it was supposed to be a brand new part, not a repaired part
[21:23:39] <neverbuya_subaru> now that i think about it, having encoders on the stepper shafts to track position
[21:23:46] <neverbuya_subaru> (not necessarily for position loop closing)
[21:23:48] <bensbenz> i have never had a missed step unless i crashed
[21:23:51] <neverbuya_subaru> but just as a ferror monitoring would be nice
[21:23:57] <bensbenz> at least that i can tell
[21:24:06] <neverbuya_subaru> thats the thing bensbenz you cant tell
[21:24:22] <bensbenz> if it didnt cause a bad part, who cares...
[21:24:32] <neverbuya_subaru> when you material costs $200
[21:24:35] <neverbuya_subaru> you do care
[21:24:45] <bensbenz> i guess there is always a chance yes
[21:24:47] <neverbuya_subaru> when the part youre working on is a repair job, and they dont make it
[21:24:53] <neverbuya_subaru> it is a big deal
[21:24:56] <bensbenz> not every case is the same i get that
[21:24:58] <neverbuya_subaru> when you've spent 8 hours on a part
[21:25:01] <neverbuya_subaru> it becomes a big deal :P
[21:25:13] <neverbuya_subaru> but really it depends on what youre making
[21:25:19] <enleth> better safe than sorry
[21:25:32] <bensbenz> in those cases i agree with you
[21:25:35] <neverbuya_subaru> if youre doing it has a hobby
[21:25:36] <neverbuya_subaru> who cares :P
[21:25:43] <neverbuya_subaru> *as
[21:25:49] <enleth> also you can join #linuxcnc and brag about your servo setup instead of being dissed for using steppers
[21:25:57] <bensbenz> eaxctly my point, when this becomes more than a hobby, i will buy a real machine
[21:26:05] <bensbenz> lol
[21:26:05] <neverbuya_subaru> enleth: haha
[21:27:44] <neverbuya_subaru> man i need to do something about my basement
[21:27:48] <neverbuya_subaru> its a frigging disaster down there
[21:29:42] <Erant> bensbenz: I mean, how much are you really saving with the steppers though?
[21:30:21] <jdh> if I could have gotten servos for 2x whatI paid for steppers, I certainly would have.
[21:30:38] <neverbuya_subaru> jdh: used market :D
[21:30:39] <neverbuya_subaru> http://i.imgur.com/z2M9Ecx.gif
[21:30:40] <neverbuya_subaru> holy cow
[21:31:55] <bensbenz> Erant: dont know, i think my setup for the mill for motors and drivers was $300?
[21:32:10] <bensbenz> the lathe was less than 200
[21:32:12] <neverbuya_subaru> thats cheap!
[21:32:18] <neverbuya_subaru> which ones did you go with
[21:32:23] <neverbuya_subaru> and what drives
[21:32:31] <neverbuya_subaru> i need something for the plasma cutter
[21:32:35] <neverbuya_subaru> 300 is sweet
[21:32:46] <neverbuya_subaru> i only need to hold 20 thou
[21:33:24] <bensbenz> the mill is two 500oz nema 23's and one ~900 ozin nema34 with digital drivers
[21:33:50] <bensbenz> its all from automationtechnologies.com
[21:34:16] <neverbuya_subaru> i ordered 2 1200oz in steppers
[21:34:19] <neverbuya_subaru> and a drive with it
[21:34:22] <neverbuya_subaru> it was like 600
[21:34:36] <bensbenz> cheap china shit but it works good. my mill has never had an issue short of inductive limits getting coolant logged
[21:34:44] <bensbenz> from where automationdirect or something
[21:35:00] <neverbuya_subaru> yea
[21:35:02] <neverbuya_subaru> theyre in chicago
[21:35:02] <bensbenz> some commercial supplier?
[21:35:11] <neverbuya_subaru> automatiocn technologies
[21:35:46] <bensbenz> yea i can drive there, but automationtech is not automationdirect
[21:36:28] <bensbenz> im surprised anything from automation technologies was that expensive. it was a 1200oz what frame?
[21:36:35] <bensbenz> 34?
[21:37:03] <neverbuya_subaru> 34 yes
[21:38:18] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34/nema34-stepper-motor%E2%80%931200ozin-6amp-single-shaftkl34h2120-60-4a-key
[21:38:34] <neverbuya_subaru> oh i ordered a power supply with it
[21:38:35] <neverbuya_subaru> nm :P
[21:39:47] <bensbenz> yea those are only 100, what drivers did you go with?
[21:40:17] <neverbuya_subaru> kl-8070d
[21:40:29] <neverbuya_subaru> i hope i remembered that right
[21:40:32] <neverbuya_subaru> its been a couple years now
[21:40:46] <neverbuya_subaru> yes its correct
[21:41:50] <bensbenz> are thos ethe digital auto tuning ones?
[21:41:58] <bensbenz> thats what I got, they are pretty sweet
[21:42:27] <neverbuya_subaru> yea
[21:46:03] <bensbenz> and you had trouble with them?
[22:01:04] <neverbuya_subaru> no
[22:01:08] <neverbuya_subaru> but hey were being steppers
[22:01:12] <neverbuya_subaru> losing position here and there in between cuts
[22:01:16] <neverbuya_subaru> *they
[22:02:55] <enleth> fun idea: replace the moisture sensor in an iPhone with something that looks like the same white rubbery stuff but foams up and emits loads of horribly stinky smoke upon contact with water, send to one of those Apple service centers infamous for triggering moisture sensors to get out of expensive repairs
[22:07:37] <bensbenz> my stepper lathe just kicked out 3 parts all within .0005
[22:10:14] <neverbuya_subaru> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXCIRc1wM7A
[22:10:17] <neverbuya_subaru> SERvo power!!!
[22:10:17] <neverbuya_subaru> :D
[22:10:54] <neverbuya_subaru> bad cam programming :P
[22:11:59] <Duc_mobile> what size of mill is it
[22:12:12] <neverbuya_subaru> you mean its travel?
[22:12:24] <Duc_mobile> hp and tool holder size
[22:12:31] <neverbuya_subaru> 5hp, #40 taper
[22:12:54] <Duc_mobile> have you tried to chip thinning yet
[22:13:15] <neverbuya_subaru> yes
[22:13:36] <neverbuya_subaru> i have this face mill that has an insert that takes advantage of chip thinning
[22:13:36] <bensbenz> yea was just about to say that
[22:13:45] <neverbuya_subaru> you can do 30 thou doc
[22:13:47] <neverbuya_subaru> but at 200ipm
[22:13:49] <bensbenz> you could really destroy with HSM paths
[22:13:56] <neverbuya_subaru> bensbenz: im using mastercam
[22:13:58] <neverbuya_subaru> and simple contour
[22:14:04] <neverbuya_subaru> its a simple part :P
[22:14:05] <bensbenz> 5HP he could do way more than that
[22:14:19] <neverbuya_subaru> i try not to do more than .25" doc
[22:14:25] <neverbuya_subaru> w/ the 3/4" cutter
[22:14:35] <neverbuya_subaru> cause the insert can only cut .3 doc max
[22:15:05] <bensbenz> so you are wasting .05 of the insert :P
[22:15:12] <neverbuya_subaru> safety buffer :)
[22:15:47] <bensbenz> are you neverbuya_subaru because its Japanese?
[22:15:54] <neverbuya_subaru> no
[22:15:58] <neverbuya_subaru> i blew the motor driving on the highway
[22:16:05] <neverbuya_subaru> catastrophically and had to pay a 3500 tow bill
[22:16:09] <neverbuya_subaru> so im butt hurt from it still
[22:16:15] <bensbenz> oh lol i c
[22:16:41] <bensbenz> i thought perhaps you were Chinese
[22:17:12] <neverbuya_subaru> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWhrfoTLx7w
[22:17:18] <neverbuya_subaru> not my own laser cutter
[22:17:22] <neverbuya_subaru> but when i see that
[22:17:25] <neverbuya_subaru> its hard not to like servos
[22:17:25] <neverbuya_subaru> :D
[22:17:48] <neverbuya_subaru> i was operating that for students last year
[22:17:54] <neverbuya_subaru> i think it was doing 2000 ipm
[22:17:55] <neverbuya_subaru> i forget
[22:18:19] <bensbenz> is that a fiber laser?
[22:18:33] <neverbuya_subaru> co2
[22:18:35] <os1r1s> neverbuya_subaru What's that have to do with servos?
[22:18:44] <neverbuya_subaru> os1r1s: fast, highly repeatabile
[22:18:47] <neverbuya_subaru> repeatable
[22:19:01] <os1r1s> neverbuya_subaru My Laser cutter uses steppers for the same thing
[22:19:08] <os1r1s> And it about the same speed
[22:19:26] <neverbuya_subaru> are we seriously going to argue stepper vs servos tonight
[22:19:29] <neverbuya_subaru> this happens every 4 months
[22:19:31] <neverbuya_subaru> getting tired of it :(
[22:19:53] <os1r1s> I'm actually sold on servos as I'm putting them on my new mill I ordered
[22:20:07] <os1r1s> neverbuya_subaru But I don't think the LC is a good example of servos vs steppers
[22:20:13] <neverbuya_subaru> it is
[22:20:27] <neverbuya_subaru> cause it's closed loop
[22:20:31] <neverbuya_subaru> and that right there is a good enough reason!
[22:21:09] <bensbenz> no need to fight, i agree servos are better, but steppers have their place for sure
[22:22:24] <os1r1s> FWIW, all ULS and versalaser CO2 lasers use steppers and they work just fine.
[22:23:23] <bensbenz> i would think lasers are a bad example because theres very little resistance right? not like pushing a cutter through metal
[22:23:41] <os1r1s> bensbenz I would tend to agree
[22:28:04] <andypugh> closed loop steppers really confuse the argument.
[22:28:14] <neverbuya_subaru> os1r1s: your steppers can do 2000 ipm?
[22:28:16] <neverbuya_subaru> for the laser?
[22:28:20] <andypugh> Are they steppers or 50-pole servos?
[22:28:31] <os1r1s> They are steppers. I've taken it apart
[22:28:31] <neverbuya_subaru> andypugh: youre up late!
[22:29:55] <os1r1s> neverbuya_subaru They move pretty damn fast. The same speed as the video you posted.
[22:30:09] <neverbuya_subaru> 2000 ipm fast?
[22:30:16] <os1r1s> When cutting/etching. Faster when going rapid
[22:32:07] <os1r1s> I doubt its 2000 IPM, but I don't think the video you posted was either
[22:32:08] <neverbuya_subaru> i guess i read wrong
[22:32:11] <neverbuya_subaru> http://www.troteclaser.com/en-US/Laser-Machines/Documents/laser-engraver-speedy-brochure.pdf
[22:32:17] <neverbuya_subaru> it does 8200 ipm
[22:32:22] <andypugh> neverbuya_subaru: Yes, I am, rather.
[22:32:43] <neverbuya_subaru> os1r1s: i was fcutting 1/4" acrylic in that
[22:32:50] <neverbuya_subaru> so it didnt need to go super fast
[22:33:10] <neverbuya_subaru> andypugh: how many hours of sleep do you get in a night
[22:33:24] <andypugh> I was watching the History channel. They dragged me in. Partly by a trailer with _my_ Robotwars robot. I appear to be history :-)
[22:33:26] <os1r1s> That would be 11 feet per second
[22:33:30] <bensbenz> well gents i am off
[22:33:35] <os1r1s> neverbuya_subaru ^
[22:33:51] <neverbuya_subaru> read spec sheet! :P
[22:33:57] <neverbuya_subaru> it says 3.66m/s
[22:34:03] <neverbuya_subaru> 3.55
[22:34:36] <neverbuya_subaru> so my video was a pretty bad comparison i guess :P
[22:34:41] <andypugh> neverbuya_subaru: I have only once been in a Subaru. It was great until the big ends went. So in my experience big-ends go every 20 miles. Though it was the Nurburgring.
[22:34:55] <neverbuya_subaru> andypugh: turbo car?
[22:36:14] <andypugh> Not sure. A long time ago. Driver: “I think that’s the exhaust heat shield” …. “no, it sounds a lot worse than that” Me: “Big end bearings, I know that noise"
[22:36:22] <zeeshan> haha
[22:36:45] <zeeshan> i knew mine wasn't a rod knock cause it didnt happen on accel
[22:36:47] <zeeshan> only on decel
[22:37:04] <zeeshan> i bet the dealership 500$ that its the piston :-)
[22:37:18] <andypugh> This was oil slosh with the stock sump on a race track.
[22:39:15] <andypugh> Its a wierd corner, a choice of smooth and flt or bumpy concrete and banked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8z0YZyB8Mk
[22:39:45] <andypugh> (That’s a pace-car lap, so not typical for speed)
[22:39:51] <zeeshan> id love to drive the nurburgring
[22:40:01] <zeeshan> i love the high speed section
[22:40:35] <andypugh> So do it. Fly to Germany, rent a car, drive the Ring
[22:40:43] <zeeshan> i wanna do it in the rx7!
[22:40:44] <zeeshan> :)
[22:40:54] <andypugh> More tricky
[22:41:14] <zeeshan> i have this plan to jump on queen mary 2 and get to dover
[22:41:15] <andypugh> Your RX7 or any RX7?
[22:41:26] <zeeshan> and then travel europe
[22:41:36] <zeeshan> my rx7
[22:41:46] <zeeshan> prolly not the wisest idea
[22:41:49] <zeeshan> cause itll blow up
[22:42:01] <andypugh> I am not sure you can get a car on QM2.
[22:43:30] <zeeshan> i came across a post where someone did
[22:43:34] <zeeshan> theres other options though
[22:43:37] <zeeshan> it costs about 1500 usd
[22:43:46] <zeeshan> another 1200 for insurance
[22:44:00] <PetefromTn_> Of course it would blow up ;)
[22:44:22] <andypugh> Insurance may be semi-optional
[22:44:23] <zeeshan> yea but at least any machine shop could fix it
[22:44:32] <zeeshan> unlike the rotary which when it blows up will blow up everything with it :P
[22:44:49] <zeeshan> andypugh: when i was like 12 years old
[22:44:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah yeah I hear ya talking
[22:45:02] <zeeshan> i was in germany and i saw this car w/ canadian plates in germany
[22:45:04] <zeeshan> and i got inspired :D
[22:45:11] <zeeshan> they were there from BC
[22:45:45] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: my subaru blew up
[22:45:50] <zeeshan> driving on the highway :{
[22:45:59] <zeeshan> now im stuck driving the beater mazda protege
[22:46:01] <PetefromTn_> Damn Subaru's hehe
[22:46:15] <zeeshan> its what i use to transport my welding tanks
[22:46:15] <zeeshan> haha
[22:46:32] <PetefromTn_> hey at least you got a backup
[22:46:42] <zeeshan> yea man
[22:46:46] <bobo__> zeeshan what is tow cost from europe to canada ?
[22:46:46] <zeeshan> its always good to have a beater around
[22:47:01] <zeeshan> it has 71,000 km on it
[22:47:09] <zeeshan> but its rusty cause its old 2002
[22:47:15] <zeeshan> and canada rapes cars
[22:47:25] <zeeshan> bobo 239082130938320
[22:47:47] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: where were you when i was getting beat up in the servo vs stepper battle
[22:47:48] <zeeshan> :(
[22:47:58] <zeeshan> did you hook yours up to the lathe?
[22:47:59] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/a/nOPTU Got my Yaks all stored nice
[22:48:14] <zeeshan> nice
[22:48:25] <PetefromTn_> I have honestly not really been around here much lately. even when I log in I am mostly doing other schtuff
[22:48:33] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ Your kayaks have carriers
[22:48:59] <PetefromTn_> I STARTED to work on the lathe today but I had so much shit all around the shop I HAD to take care of the boats etc.
[22:49:07] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean carriers?
[22:49:22] <os1r1s> I see kayaks on top of kayaks
[22:49:44] <PetefromTn_> they are just leaned against the wall and strapped so the smaller ones don't fall over
[22:50:10] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to find a cheap trailer like an old jetski trailer so I can modify it to hold all of them
[22:50:27] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ Those are so light I'd think you could build one
[22:50:31] <PetefromTn_> and I gotta make a wheeled PVC pipe carrier for when we are at the lake or beach
[22:50:34] <os1r1s> With some old axles
[22:50:57] <PetefromTn_> I am sure I could but it is just easier to start with a decent trailer and build off of it.
[22:52:37] <PetefromTn_> I am SO wanting to get this lathe going. Been crazy busy lately
[22:53:02] <PetefromTn_> My wife and I agreed to clean up the shop and she is gonna help me work on it this weekend.
[22:54:11] <renesis> 04:21 < zeeshan> PetefromTn_: my subaru blew up
[22:54:32] <renesis> when everyone says to me GET A WRX, my response is usually, dont those break?
[22:54:39] <renesis> heh, no one says no
[22:55:05] <PetefromTn_> I honestly never had one so I don't know.
[22:55:27] <renesis> 'well i mean cmon, when you got that much power going to the wheels and the tires all connect at once, shrug...'
[22:55:32] <PetefromTn_> subaru's are supposed to be reliable cars but I don't know about the AWD boosted ones LOL
[22:56:12] <renesis> with a used one, id just assume it lived a harder life, because how do you own one and not push it
[22:56:22] <renesis> its not really a garage queen
[22:56:32] <XXCoder> zeeshan: get plastic car. no rust ;)
[22:57:14] <bobo__> PetelustingforFlordia so where can you store the Yack trailer ? more reasion to buy a shop vers house in florida. yes?
[22:58:23] <andypugh> I had such plans for err, today. But at 0430, I doubt I will see the morning and daylight at the same time
[22:58:36] <andypugh> Time to collapse
[22:58:44] <renesis> k nite
[22:59:41] <PetefromTn_> bobo__ well the plan actually is to get a utility trailer
[22:59:58] <PetefromTn_> then build a rack that I can break down that holds the yaks
[23:00:09] <PetefromTn_> make it modular/removable
[23:00:17] <PetefromTn_> so I can use the trailer to haul other stuff
[23:00:29] <zeeshan> boosted ones are the problem
[23:00:35] <zeeshan> the trans is stout
[23:01:15] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Yaks??? http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/You-Did-not-Know-These-About-Yaks-2.jpg
[23:01:36] <zeeshan> im seriously considering a 4runner limited edition
[23:01:38] <zeeshan> with full time 4wd
[23:01:42] <zeeshan> great suv
[23:01:51] <zeeshan> has the ability to lock the center diff too
[23:01:55] <PetefromTn_> great until you roll over LOL
[23:01:56] <zeeshan> useful for offorad
[23:02:10] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i dont drive my daily drivers like i stole em
[23:02:11] <zeeshan> :P
[23:02:41] <PetefromTn_> there is a shop down south of me that has a shit load of them that are all wrecked for parts sales. MOST of them are rollover accidents
[23:02:44] <zeeshan> ive been doing a lot of hiking deep in the bush
[23:02:52] <zeeshan> and the roads there especially in the winter are not clean
[23:03:01] <PetefromTn_> I like the Nissan Xterra's
[23:03:04] <bobo__> Pete I am just moaning about american houses are not good design for people who do the stuff people here do
[23:03:27] <Jymmm> bobo__: Like sleep?
[23:03:29] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean bobo
[23:03:31] <zeeshan> http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Toyota/4Runner/Burlington/Ontario/5_26040243_ON20080227102113875/?showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=37_15_57
[23:03:33] <zeeshan> this is the one i looked at
[23:03:34] <zeeshan> i love it
[23:03:45] <zeeshan> but it does have high miles on it
[23:03:55] <zeeshan> i cant afford the brand new ones
[23:03:59] <zeeshan> they relike 56000$
[23:04:02] <zeeshan> too much
[23:04:22] <PetefromTn_> that one and the new ones are stupid expensive IMHO
[23:04:33] <bobo__> pete house vers a big shop
[23:04:36] <zeeshan> i cant go back to cloth seats
[23:04:43] <zeeshan> and non heated seats, mirrors, windows, etc :(
[23:04:45] <zeeshan> im spoiled now
[23:04:45] <PetefromTn_> I hate leather seats
[23:04:56] <zeeshan> i used to hate them too
[23:05:02] <zeeshan> till i started my car for long trips
[23:05:04] <zeeshan> i love em now
[23:05:20] <PetefromTn_> They're all slidey
[23:05:24] <zeeshan> i like that!
[23:05:35] <PetefromTn_> then they wear and look like shit after awhile
[23:05:36] <zeeshan> bucket seats take care of that though
[23:06:08] <PetefromTn_> a halfway decent cloth seat is more comfortable and typically lasts longer in my experience
[23:06:23] <PetefromTn_> the softer the leather the shorter the life span
[23:07:31] <PetefromTn_> http://www.xterranation.org/showthread.php?7267-2004-Nissan-Xterra-XE-SAS Here ya go ;)
[23:07:53] <zeeshan> :P
[23:08:07] <PetefromTn_> That's what I want ;)
[23:08:19] <PetefromTn_> probably have to build my own tho.
[23:08:46] <zeeshan> i loved every bit about the subaru
[23:08:48] <zeeshan> till it blew a piston
[23:08:50] <zeeshan> it was such a fun car
[23:09:00] <zeeshan> never got stuck in snow or offroad trails
[23:09:09] <zeeshan> not hardcore offroading obvviously :P
[23:09:22] <zeeshan> blah
[23:09:45] <PetefromTn_> well see that's why you blew the damn thing up....;)
[23:09:55] <zeeshan> nah dude
[23:10:01] <zeeshan> theres about 150 guys on the nasioc forums
[23:10:07] <zeeshan> that blew their engine with no mods or anything
[23:10:13] <zeeshan> theres a big thread about it
[23:10:23] <zeeshan> people replace the pistons w/ forged pistons
[23:10:25] <zeeshan> and the car lasts forever
[23:10:36] <bobo__> jymmm like working on various metalworking-cars -etc. vers the martha s show room house
[23:10:45] <zeeshan> but do i really wanna spend 3 weeks of my time
[23:10:47] <zeeshan> building an engine?
[23:10:50] <zeeshan> on my daily driver?!?
[23:10:55] <zeeshan> it was supposed to be a headache free car :[
[23:10:59] <zeeshan> don't need 2 projects
[23:11:50] <zeeshan> suv is more practical for me since i do like hiking, and itll allow me to tow machines home!
[23:13:40] <PetefromTn_> yup I want the SUV for hiking/kayaking/fishing/exploring/4wheeling etc.
[23:13:56] <PetefromTn_> I drove a couple Xterras and they are quite nice
[23:14:15] <PetefromTn_> there is a lot of tough stuff you can do with them too now including bolt on SAS axles
[23:15:08] <XXCoder> zeeshan: plastic car. ;)
[23:15:12] <PetefromTn_> they are also relatively easy to mod if you keep the IFS
[23:18:05] <zeeshan> nice
[23:18:15] <zeeshan> i like toyota reliability at least when it comes to their engine and trans
[23:18:19] <zeeshan> not their throttle :)
[23:18:23] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/oJYD5Tl.jpg
[23:18:29] <zeeshan> if i can drive through these sorts of trails
[23:18:31] <zeeshan> im more than happy
[23:18:38] <zeeshan> i dont plan to do hardcore offroading
[23:19:06] <PetefromTn_> These Nissan's are quite reliable apparently. Many have high miles on them and still run good.
[23:20:10] <zeeshan> http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/03/top-10-most-reliable-car-brands.html
[23:20:12] <zeeshan> im going by this list
[23:20:21] <os1r1s> I sold my offroad/tow vehicle and race car. Now I have to find a nice 8 year old F150
[23:20:22] <zeeshan> for 2015
[23:20:37] <zeeshan> chevy made it to top 10 :D
[23:21:00] <zeeshan> http://autoguide.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/JD-Power-2015-VDS-Rankings.jpg
[23:21:22] <zeeshan> which there was a survey for mechanical reliability only
[23:21:27] <os1r1s> After the fuel pump issue on my F350 I won't buy another diesel
[23:21:54] <XXCoder> why?
[23:22:01] <XXCoder> dieasel do have longer avg life
[23:22:03] <os1r1s> XXCoder $13,000 to repair
[23:22:03] <PetefromTn_> Dunno about all that I would never buy a newer car anyway
[23:22:07] <XXCoder> and better mpog besides
[23:22:10] <XXCoder> ow 13k?
[23:22:13] <zeeshan> whats wrong with newer cars
[23:22:15] <os1r1s> XXCoder Yes
[23:22:26] <XXCoder> it'd be cheaper to buy used one same as your car and pull part
[23:22:28] <PetefromTn_> they are ridiculously expensive
[23:22:32] <zeeshan> o
[23:22:37] <os1r1s> XXCoder They had to replace the HP fuel pump, and all the fuel lines, injectors, etc
[23:23:01] <os1r1s> XXCoder That was an expensive truck. Would have cost me a lot more than 13k for another
[23:23:11] <zeeshan> jeez os1r1s thats insane
[23:23:17] <os1r1s> zeeshan Yeah
[23:23:17] <XXCoder> yeah insane
[23:23:20] <zeeshan> 13k!!!
[23:23:22] <os1r1s> I asked them how often that happened
[23:23:25] <zeeshan> fuel pump made out of gold
[23:23:26] <os1r1s> They said about once a month
[23:23:35] <XXCoder> just gold? plat plated gold
[23:23:37] <os1r1s> I told them they had a design issue
[23:23:47] <os1r1s> zeeshan No, the fuel pump is only 800
[23:23:52] <zeeshan> os1r1s: my first and last experience with diesel was when i was moving my mill 600 km away
[23:23:58] <os1r1s> Its that it blows apart and ruins the entire fuel system
[23:23:58] <zeeshan> the goddamn truck broke down
[23:24:04] <zeeshan> it was a 2012 hino
[23:24:05] <zeeshan> lol
[23:24:10] <zeeshan> DEF issue
[23:24:37] <zeeshan> diesels have so much stuff for emissions its crazy
[23:24:54] <os1r1s> I replaced the front end and the radiator on my dime. They replaced the fuel pump (entire fuel system) and EGR on theirs.
[23:25:03] <zeeshan> wait
[23:25:06] <PetefromTn_> Volkswagens don't....apparently ;)
[23:25:10] <zeeshan> it blew up and took out other components?
[23:25:11] <os1r1s> Basically a 2012 truck required 22k worth of maint.
[23:25:19] <os1r1s> zeeshan Yes, that is the design flaw
[23:25:19] <zeeshan> like your rad and stuff?
[23:25:22] <zeeshan> is it a mechanical fuel pump?
[23:25:24] <zeeshan> in the engine bay
[23:25:25] <os1r1s> No, diff repairs
[23:25:29] <zeeshan> oh
[23:25:41] <os1r1s> But in 3 years I had all that shit go wrong
[23:25:48] <XXCoder> dang
[23:25:49] <zeeshan> well fords like #20 on that list
[23:25:50] <os1r1s> So I just got rid of it
[23:25:51] <zeeshan> or something like that
[23:25:51] <PetefromTn_> my daughter's husband has had several Ford Diesel trucks
[23:25:52] <zeeshan> :P
[23:26:04] <XXCoder> makes my van with bad idle problems sounds perfectly functional
[23:26:09] <XXCoder> 1996 nissan quest
[23:26:12] <PetefromTn_> they are decent but when they break they are very expensvie to repair
[23:26:26] <zeeshan> im suprised that buick is up on this list
[23:26:29] <zeeshan> i thought they were bad
[23:26:34] <zeeshan> cadillac i can see being up there
[23:26:36] <os1r1s> So I went the complete opposite way and bought a tesla. We'll see how reliable that is.
[23:26:37] <zeeshan> they are pretty damn stout
[23:26:44] <zeeshan> are you serious
[23:26:44] <zeeshan> haha
[23:26:48] <os1r1s> yes
[23:26:51] <zeeshan> thats a complete 360
[23:26:59] <os1r1s> Drove right past PetefromTn_ when I did it
[23:27:09] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[23:27:16] <XXCoder> zeeshan: 360 turn to same direction ;)
[23:27:21] <zeeshan> hhehe
[23:27:22] <XXCoder> its 180 fegree thats opposite lol
[23:27:23] <zeeshan> i like the teslas
[23:27:28] <zeeshan> long live electric cars
[23:27:32] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ In Chattanooga ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/xuj7xp1hk3312qy/teslasc.jpg?dl=0
[23:27:41] <zeeshan> which tesla did you get
[23:27:43] <XXCoder> we REALLY need more lightweight compact batteries.
[23:27:49] <os1r1s> zeeshan 85D
[23:27:50] <PetefromTn_> sweet Model S
[23:27:53] <zeeshan> os1r1s: nice!
[23:28:09] <PetefromTn_> I would love to own one of those but they are still crazy expensive
[23:28:26] <os1r1s> zeeshan https://www.dropbox.com/s/i3kumrblx8jhyo8/teslachademo2.jpg?dl=0 charing in Birmingham at the Nissan dealership.
[23:28:45] <zeeshan> os1r1s: glad to know somoene who owns it
[23:28:51] <zeeshan> now i can see a real life experience :)
[23:28:55] <os1r1s> haha
[23:29:04] <PetefromTn_> those things haul major ass too
[23:29:07] <zeeshan> a lot of people shit talk them
[23:29:12] <os1r1s> I love it. AWD. Drives itself. Fast as shit
[23:29:13] <zeeshan> quoting reliabilkity etc
[23:29:21] <zeeshan> but i think theyre talking out of their ass
[23:29:23] <zeeshan> gasoline fumes
[23:29:24] <zeeshan> :-)
[23:29:29] <XXCoder> os1r1s: shit arent well known for its speed ;)
[23:29:41] <zeeshan> i think it does 12.8 stock
[23:29:44] <zeeshan> at 110?
[23:29:44] <os1r1s> XXCoder haha
[23:29:57] <os1r1s> zeeshan This one does 0-60 in 3.8s
[23:30:06] <XXCoder> I want my elio
[23:30:15] <XXCoder> but 4th quarter of 2016 bah
[23:30:35] <os1r1s> XXCoder Its not a drag car. But tis fun for a street car.
[23:30:43] <zeeshan> looks like low 12's at 112 mph
[23:30:51] <zeeshan> so fak, it definitely has serious power
[23:31:02] <zeeshan> for a stock car that is sweet
[23:31:12] <PetefromTn_> its a big car too
[23:31:18] <os1r1s> 4600 lbs
[23:31:19] <zeeshan> yea like 4500lb!
[23:31:19] <PetefromTn_> very roomy inside
[23:31:25] * XXCoder love tiny cars.
[23:31:28] <zeeshan> but guess what
[23:31:35] <zeeshan> otehr than it having toxic batteries
[23:31:39] <PetefromTn_> faster than a lot of high performance cars
[23:31:40] <zeeshan> its a lot better for the env :)
[23:31:48] <os1r1s> I bought it in Nashville, drove to ATL to have stuff installed, and drove back to Mem. All in a weekend
[23:32:00] <zeeshan> os1r1s: how long does it take it charge it to full charge
[23:32:01] <zeeshan> from empty
[23:32:03] <os1r1s> zeeshan I didn't buy it to save the world
[23:32:10] <os1r1s> 3.5 hours
[23:32:18] <zeeshan> not bad
[23:32:20] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I read that one guy had repaired telsa battery bank by replacing cells
[23:32:25] <XXCoder> vastly cheaper
[23:32:36] <XXCoder> its ALWAYS few cells that die, not entire battery.
[23:32:38] <zeeshan> os1r1s: then you bought the wrong car :p
[23:33:07] <os1r1s> zeeshan ahah
[23:33:17] <PetefromTn_> I honestly think at some point they are going to make the batteries much better and cheaper/lighter and then we will all probably be driving electric
[23:33:18] <zeeshan> those zr1's are nice
[23:33:30] <os1r1s> zeeshan It costs me about $19 a month compared to $300 for my truck
[23:33:44] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: 300 miles and recharge station often enough is two requirements
[23:33:50] <os1r1s> Not that it pays for the car, but its a great bonus
[23:33:52] <PetefromTn_> perhaps some capacitor banks or something too
[23:33:53] <zeeshan> nice
[23:34:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i aint ever driving a pure electric for my race car!
[23:34:17] <zeeshan> hybrid yes
[23:34:18] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of stations around here actually
[23:34:20] <zeeshan> but not pure :P
[23:34:36] <PetefromTn_> shit there are MANY sick fast pure electric race cars now
[23:34:54] <SpeedEvil> For several minutes, it's trivial
[23:34:56] <XXCoder> not between cities
[23:34:56] <zeeshan> the mclaren p1 is perfection
[23:35:06] <XXCoder> probably die before reach city and recharge
[23:35:07] <zeeshan> uses electric for its low and
[23:35:07] <SpeedEvil> > that, and you care about mass ratio a lot
[23:35:10] <zeeshan> and gasoline for high end :)
[23:35:22] <zeeshan> *end
[23:36:13] <PetefromTn_> any of you guys have a GOOD Cheap sports video camera like a Gopro but cheaper?
[23:36:29] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ For a car, or helmet, or what?
[23:36:56] <PetefromTn_> anything really... a sports camera, waterproof, etc.
[23:37:22] <PetefromTn_> I was looking at the GeekPro and the Kodak models are reasonable and pretty damn good
[23:38:04] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: cheap android ohone in waterproof case heh
[23:38:20] <PetefromTn_> naah
[23:39:02] <PetefromTn_> there are several different Gopro Alternatives that are lightweight, waterproof,shockproof, and cheap. Just wondering if any of you guys had one you liked.
[23:43:39] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ I have a VIO POV that worked well. Not quite as convenient as a gopro though
[23:44:03] <os1r1s> You can find old ones on ebay
[23:45:05] <PetefromTn_> I like that Koday SPD or whatever its called
[23:45:52] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgN-MWL793Y
[23:48:50] <PetefromTn_> Well Gn8 folks
[23:49:25] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_ Night Pete
[23:49:36] <PetefromTn_> :D