#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-12-19

[02:32:59] <Deejay> moin
[02:35:02] <toastydeath> Erant, excellent!
[04:57:23] <jthornton> now if I could get var/www/html/somesubdirectory/test.php to load I'be getting somewhere
[04:57:54] <jthornton> or should I say localhost/somesubdirectory/test.php
[05:50:36] <jthornton> now I've done it nothing works on this computer
[05:50:58] <jthornton> oh well time to install over again
[06:23:16] <jthornton> well that didn't take long to reinstall LinuxMint Mate
[06:55:50] <jthornton> well I won't do that again lol
[07:53:39] <jthornton> messed something up for sure got: dpkg: error processing package linuxcnc (--install):
[07:53:39] <jthornton> subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[07:58:06] <_methods> problems with mate?
[07:59:00] <_methods> oh wow just read back
[07:59:12] <_methods> i guess mate is the least of your problems
[08:14:17] <JT-Shop> I did a clean install this morning after the sudo killer
[08:14:45] <JT-Shop> I've followed this about 5 times and this time linuxcnc failed to install, the docs deb works
[08:14:55] <JT-Shop> I'll try again in the morning
[08:17:34] <JT-Shop> disconnected the mpg and spindle and probe from the 7i77 and tried to move an axis and got the same errors as last night
[08:19:35] <pcw_home> jthornton:
[08:19:36] <pcw_home> http://freeby.mesanet.com/77f.bit (7I77x2 config)
[08:19:37] <pcw_home> http://freeby.mesanet.com/76f.bit (7I76x2 config)
[08:25:29] <JT-Shop> firefox tries to open the file...
[08:32:14] <pcw_home> hmm mine just says "would you like to save this file?"
[08:36:37] <jthornton> right click in hexchat and I get open or copy link, if I paste the link in explorer or firefox it just opens the page
[08:37:43] <pcw_home> I just click on it in firefox (chatzilla) and it offers to save it
[08:38:49] <pcw_home> I haven't changed the way i've done this
[08:40:07] <pcw_home> i could try renaming them or zipping them up in case firefox/IE has decided it knows what to do with .bit files
[08:44:21] <jthornton> I installed the chatzilla plugin but can't figure out how to start it...
[08:45:05] <pcw_home> on my firefox its under "tools"
[08:45:27] <jthornton> trying to get the menu to show up lol
[08:45:54] <pcw_home> might try this:
[08:45:55] <pcw_home> http://freeby.mesanet.com/filtered.zip
[08:46:31] <jthornton> it knows what to do with that, thanks
[08:46:47] <jthornton> I gotta run for a while I'll install it when I get back
[08:47:08] <pcw_home> OK
[12:21:30] <aventtini6> hello guys
[12:40:38] <aventtini> guys anyone how wants to sell a 7i77
[12:40:46] <aventtini> and a 5i25
[12:40:49] <aventtini> in EU
[12:41:01] <aventtini> i see there is no stock in us
[12:53:53] <irontree9> anyone play with PyCAM?
[12:54:09] <malcom2073> I tried it for a bit
[12:54:35] <jdh> me too
[12:55:30] <jdh> never got anything useful, but I wasn't that persistent
[12:55:59] <irontree9> I seem to like it so far but takes forever to calculate complex paths. I keep getting errors in surfacing so trying t detailed contour polygon follow instead
[12:56:36] <irontree9> I am extremely persistent
[12:56:53] <irontree9> well.... just geeking out really
[12:57:32] <archivist> I used to see someone in #cam who was trying to speed it up, not seen him in a long while though
[12:59:22] <irontree9> Well cleaning up the meshes and getting the vertex and face count down seems to help greatly
[13:21:57] <zeeshan> howdy
[13:22:08] <irontree9> hellos
[13:26:41] <Tom_itx> what's up zee
[13:40:35] <zeeshan> tired :)
[13:40:37] <zeeshan> so busy this week
[13:40:50] <zeeshan> how about you
[13:43:37] <aventtini6> zee
[13:43:54] <aventtini6> i got a huge wf72ch
[13:44:01] <aventtini6> this week
[13:46:40] <zeeshan> nice
[13:47:23] <zeeshan> im retrofitting a huge deckel fp50cct
[13:47:31] <zeeshan> its huge!
[13:47:34] <aventtini6> its a huge differance on construction
[13:47:39] <aventtini6> i got a wf51
[13:47:45] <aventtini6> a wf31
[13:47:49] <aventtini6> and a wf72
[13:47:58] <aventtini6> from small to the largest one
[13:48:01] <zeeshan> aventtini6: you need to send me an overboard arm for the wf31 :(
[13:48:04] <zeeshan> haha you got all of them
[13:48:06] <zeeshan> so luckly :)
[13:48:19] * archivist grmbls
[13:48:24] <aventtini6> you men the side head moving arm ?
[13:48:28] <zeeshan> no
[13:48:29] <zeeshan> i have that
[13:48:34] <aventtini6> aaa
[13:48:35] <zeeshan> but when your machine is in horizontal mode
[13:48:36] <aventtini6> i know
[13:48:46] <zeeshan> there is an overboard arm that connects from Y axis ram
[13:48:50] <aventtini6> i dont have the at any of them
[13:48:54] <zeeshan> they are rare
[13:48:55] <aventtini6> the wf72
[13:49:06] <aventtini6> has a 1m 4 axis table
[13:50:08] <zeeshan> see i wanted a 4 axis table for my machine
[13:50:12] <zeeshan> but the factory one is kind of useless
[13:50:18] <zeeshan> because all it does is rotate..
[13:50:24] <zeeshan> along the C axis
[13:50:30] <zeeshan> which in my opinion is useless..
[13:50:37] <zeeshan> it'd be more useful if it was an A or B axis table
[13:50:41] <zeeshan> (at least for me)
[13:51:09] <FinboySlick> My lazy weekend youtube was rather productive today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXgB3lIvPHI
[13:51:59] <aventtini6> http://imgur.com/a/O3ASV
[13:52:36] <aventtini6> yes i know i was thinking of putting the original table
[13:54:03] <aventtini6> im truning to get some 7i77
[13:54:09] <aventtini6> and a 5i25
[13:54:27] <aventtini6> and i see there are not in the online shop as a combo
[13:56:23] <aventtini6> and i see now from 92 up it has Bosch SPM for the spindle and no gears
[13:56:26] <aventtini6> gears
[14:11:45] <zeeshan> aventtini6:
[14:11:47] <zeeshan> holy shit man
[14:11:49] <zeeshan> i'm jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[14:11:53] <zeeshan> that is BAD ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:12:12] <aventtini6> yap
[14:12:12] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: lol nice
[14:12:14] <aventtini6> :))
[14:12:18] <zeeshan> dude
[14:12:21] <zeeshan> your machine is BOSS status
[14:12:28] <zeeshan> whats the X and Y travel on that baby
[14:12:31] <zeeshan> x looks like 40"
[14:12:41] <aventtini6> i dont think i can be a biger mikron
[14:12:52] <zeeshan> you can
[14:12:56] <zeeshan> but not in that year
[14:13:05] <zeeshan> the more modern machine 2006+ are bigger
[14:13:06] <aventtini6> 1200x700
[14:13:15] <zeeshan> hahahah!
[14:13:16] <zeeshan> nice!
[14:13:42] <zeeshan> same as deckel fp50cc
[14:13:52] <zeeshan> ill take some pics on wed
[14:13:58] <aventtini6> what drives?
[14:14:03] <zeeshan> bosch
[14:14:13] <zeeshan> i dont know the model
[14:14:30] <zeeshan> http://www.metec-cnc.com/images/maschinen/neu/060-Deckel-FP-50.jpg
[14:14:32] <zeeshan> this is what it looks like
[14:14:33] <zeeshan> its massive
[14:15:02] <aventtini6> i can be bosch sm
[14:15:04] <zeeshan> sorry your machine is bigger
[14:15:08] <zeeshan> 1200x600x600
[14:15:10] <zeeshan> is this machine
[14:15:16] <zeeshan> 6300rpm, 10 HP
[14:15:27] <aventtini6> if it has 5000mm/m
[14:15:38] <aventtini6> its the old bosch drives
[14:15:43] <zeeshan> no
[14:15:47] <zeeshan> its not 5000mm/min
[14:15:50] <zeeshan> thats my machine
[14:16:07] <zeeshan> 17780mm/min
[14:16:08] <aventtini6> if it has 8000mm/min SM drives whit encoders on the motors
[14:16:16] <aventtini6> and liniar scales
[14:16:42] <zeeshan> er
[14:16:43] <zeeshan> im wrong
[14:16:47] <zeeshan> its 10000mm/min
[14:16:47] <zeeshan> http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n104/Deckel_Fan/Deckel%20FP%2050CC/PICT0195.jpg
[14:16:49] <zeeshan> pics orf drives
[14:16:59] <zeeshan> they are brushless drives
[14:17:34] <aventtini6> i have setup this drives
[14:17:37] <aventtini6> my favorite
[14:17:46] <aventtini6> the have encoders on the motors
[14:18:04] <zeeshan> i like glass scales
[14:18:12] <zeeshan> cause they're not suspectible to backlash
[14:18:19] <zeeshan> but youre limited on speed :/
[14:18:20] <aventtini6> yes it has doable
[14:18:28] <zeeshan> oh
[14:18:31] <zeeshan> its glass scale + encoder ?
[14:18:34] <aventtini6> yes
[14:18:35] <aventtini6> :D
[14:18:36] <zeeshan> wow nice!
[14:18:39] <zeeshan> thats awesome
[14:18:45] <zeeshan> i bet it uses the encoder for commutation
[14:18:53] <aventtini6> the have a BTB loop
[14:18:54] <zeeshan> and glass scale for position
[14:19:09] <aventtini6> i have the full manuals and the SPM module
[14:19:09] <zeeshan> i love to stay and talk more
[14:19:11] <zeeshan> but i am late :(
[14:19:12] <zeeshan> ill be back
[14:19:14] <zeeshan> we will talk later
[14:19:19] <aventtini6> ok
[14:19:25] <zeeshan> in english?
[14:19:29] <zeeshan> these manuals came ingerman
[14:19:31] <aventtini6> let me know if you need info
[14:19:34] <zeeshan> okay
[14:19:38] <aventtini6> i have in english
[14:19:39] <zeeshan> ill find out and see if theyre same first
[14:19:44] <aventtini6> and wire scematics
[14:19:45] <zeeshan> okay i will definitely ask you in the future
[14:19:46] <aventtini6> schematics
[14:19:50] <zeeshan> thank you
[14:19:50] <aventtini6> ok byby
[14:28:40] <FinboySlick> Well, both your machines make me jealous.
[14:30:21] <enleth> guys, any experience with chinese indexing heads here?
[14:30:25] <enleth> the small ones
[14:32:40] <aventtini6> dont worry it will come a time to get more and more bigger
[14:32:41] <aventtini6> :D
[15:12:25] <tiwake> http://www.ebay.com/itm/361426944160 10G network cards for $18 and free shipping
[15:59:41] <JT-Shop> do you use mesaflash3 on the 5i25 or mesaflash? both are in the support zip file.
[16:03:56] <JT-Shop> I found this in a Dec post from PCW sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --write 5i25_7i77x2.bit
[16:03:57] <JT-Shop> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --reload
[16:03:58] <JT-Shop> You may need to install mesaflash if its not already installed:
[16:03:58] <JT-Shop> sudo apt-get install mesaflash
[16:04:47] <PCW> yeah sudo apt-get install mesaflash
[16:05:36] <PCW> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --write 77f.bit
[16:05:37] <PCW> sodo mesaflash --device 5i25 --reload
[16:05:54] <PCW> sudo
[16:08:40] <JT-Shop> thanks
[16:08:52] <JT-Shop> sodo might make the PC laugh
[16:09:15] <PCW> sodoit
[16:16:04] <JT-Shop> ERROR: FPGA reload not supported
[16:16:41] <PCW> you must have pretty old firmware, so you will need to power cycle
[16:18:21] * Jymmm tosses rebar into JT-Shop's circuit breaker... There, I power cycled it for you =)
[16:19:41] <PCW> Wonder what changed to cause all the sserial errors?
[16:19:43] <PCW> Did you change any other software versions, hardware, or firmware at the same time you were adding the probe?
[16:19:59] <JT-Shop> I upgraded from 2.6 to 2.7
[16:20:24] <JT-Shop> can I upgrade the firmware?
[16:23:29] <PCW> you are
[16:24:40] <PCW> that is, the new 5i25 77f.bit file allows --reload for example and has the latest sserial host firmware
[16:27:56] <JT-Shop> ah once I power cycle then the new firmware is loaded and --reload will work
[16:28:14] <PCW> Yeah
[16:29:14] <PCW> its a feature of the base PCI interface which was added a couple years ago
[16:31:33] <Deejay> gn8
[16:33:35] <JT-Shop> I get the same errors with any movement of an axis http://pastebin.com/ww8xGE1w
[16:36:22] <PCW> likely a ground loop between the analog out (servo drive ground) and the PC
[16:37:05] <PCW> do the drives have differential inputs? (in+ and in-)
[16:38:08] <PCW> also did you do a full power cycle? (reboot wont work)
[16:40:30] <JT-Shop> yes full power cycle, funny thing the spindle works and it has encoder feedback
[16:42:03] <JT-Shop> the drives have two wires for +-10v
[16:43:09] <PCW> are they labeled something like AIN+ and AIN- or is one ground?
[16:43:28] <JT-Shop> let me see if I can see a label
[16:48:01] <JT-Shop> the sheild and the black wire go through a small resistor you had me to add a long time ago then to GND on TB5 and the red wire goes to AOUT0, no labels on the drive
[16:48:45] <PCW> do all channels have a resistor?
[16:50:04] <JT-Shop> only the three axes
[16:50:41] <JT-Shop> well that is all the drives I have
[16:50:50] <JT-Shop> the spindle is run by modbus
[16:52:55] <PCW> trying to make sure no 7I77 ground lead connects directly to frame ground at the 7I77 end
[16:52:57] <PCW> those errors mean that enough high frequency current is flowing in the DB25 cable that there is a greater than 1.4V drop
[16:52:58] <PCW> so the 5I25 end sees characters that are not there (even with the added 200 ns filter)
[16:53:32] <PCW> (1.4v drop from end to end)
[16:53:53] <JT-Shop> ok
[16:55:06] <PCW> at high frequency "ground" is just a tapped autotransformer
[16:58:36] <PCW> The trick is to make the path impedance higher so the ground current through the DB25 cable is minimized
[16:58:38] <PCW> Where the PC is plugged in makes a difference. Also the DB 25 cable should be kept away from power lines
[17:23:30] <JT-Shop> the analog to the drives are in shielded cable, which end should be grounded?
[17:25:34] <PCW> I would normally ground at the 7I77 end but make sure that shield touches no other grounds in the drive cabinet
[17:27:10] <JT-Shop> the drive end is neatly done with heat shrink tubing
[17:29:23] <PCW> to try and isolate the ground current source I would try unplugging the analog and encoder connectors and seeing if you get startup errors with linuxcnc
[17:30:46] <PCW> are the encoder cables shielded?
[17:32:11] <JT-Shop> no, I disconnected the shield from the analog out and now it works
[17:32:55] <PCW> fixed the sserial errors?
[17:33:05] <JT-Shop> for a second or three
[17:33:10] <JT-Shop> no, they came back
[17:34:32] <JT-Shop> when the sserial errors come there is a bunch then axis following error
[17:35:10] <PCW> are the encoder cables shielded?
[17:35:12] <PCW> if connected at both ends this is a way to channel ground from the motor through the DB25 cable
[17:35:24] <PCW> channel ground noise
[17:37:50] <JT-Shop> the encoder cables are shielded and grounded at the entrance to the cabinet so in the middle of the cables
[17:38:45] <PCW> and the shield is not connected at the 7I77 end?
[17:38:49] <JT-Shop> let me look at the encoder end of the cable, the 7i77 end the shield is not brought out
[17:39:30] <PCW> if its not connected at the 7I77 end, that should be OK
[17:42:11] <PCW> one easy way to check grounding is to power down, disconnect the DB25 cable and measure from 7I77 GND (say TB1 pin1)
[17:42:12] <PCW> to servo cabinet ground
[17:43:10] <PCW> does the DB25 cable go through a panel (where the shell might be grounded to the servo cabinet) ?
[17:46:07] <JT-Shop> no, the only thing is is touching is the back of the PC
[17:47:00] <JT-Shop> the 170vdc power supply is a bridge rectifier, a large blue capacitor with a power resistor across the terminals, could that be a source of the problem?
[17:48:59] <PCW> Its most likely high frequency noise from the servo drive getting into the DB-25 cable
[17:52:07] <os1r1s> PCW Do you know if 7i77's are in stock to ship?
[17:52:14] <JT-Shop> the drive power and encoder cable run though the same flex conduit with mill speck connectors on each end
[17:53:00] <PCW> we have sonme 7I77s but I think they are all allocated to dealers
[17:53:45] <PCW> what powers the 7I77 5V?
[17:54:28] <JT-Shop> a 5v power supply... I wonder if the left over wire laying on one terminal of the 170vdc power supply could be the problem
[17:55:10] <JT-Shop> nope
[17:55:52] <PCW> Is the 5V supply floating? (a PC power supply would be an issue here since common is frame ground)
[17:57:40] <JT-Shop> the power supply is grounded, not sure about the DC out
[17:59:07] <PCW> I would try the ohmmeter check (7I77 GND to servo cabinet frame ground with DB 25 disconnected)
[17:59:28] <JT-Shop> the 5v power supply 0v is grounded, the 24v power supply the 0v is floating
[17:59:32] <JT-Shop> checking
[18:00:13] <PCW> I would disconnect the 5V common from ground
[18:01:47] <JT-Shop> TB1 pin 1 shows 5 ohm to frame
[18:01:50] <JT-Shop> ok
[18:18:11] <JT-Shop> TB1 pin 1 to frame with db25 disconnected reads 4.8 ohms
[18:21:35] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, gettin anywhere with your probe issues?
[18:22:17] <JT-Shop> BP out of action atm
[18:22:42] <Tom_itx> was all this ^^ caused by adding the probe?
[18:22:50] <JT-Shop> dunno
[18:22:55] <Tom_itx> odd
[18:26:01] <JT-Shop> well all I know is it was working before I hooked up the probe wrong...
[18:29:10] * JT-Shop needs to become a Mesa dealer so he can get some 7i77's
[18:30:02] <Tom_itx> becoming a bit of an issue for us
[18:30:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Only if they are installed on tricks
[18:30:18] <Jymmm> trikes*
[18:30:23] <Tom_itx> since they're so front & center with lcnc
[18:30:32] * JT-Shop only has one reverse trike
[18:39:37] <PCW> JT-Shop it was working with 2.7 and only started having problems after a probe connection mistake?
[18:39:51] <JT-Shop> yes
[18:40:00] <JT-Shop> no
[18:40:04] <JT-Shop> working with 2.6
[18:40:29] <JT-Shop> I upgraded to 2.7 at the same time as attempting to install the probe
[18:41:57] <PCW> I think its more likely 2.7s more complete error checking that's exposed the noise issue
[18:43:03] <PCW> what resistance do you get to ground with DB25 disconnected and local 5V common disconnected from ground
[18:43:24] <PCW> (7I77 ground and frame ground)
[18:43:34] <JT-Shop> 4.8 ohms
[18:44:38] <PCW> so something is still providing a low impedance path to ground
[18:45:32] <PCW> I would try removing the encoder cables (is encoder 5V ground connected to frame GND?)
[18:46:55] <JT-Shop> let me check
[18:47:09] <PCW> ground loop somewhere
[18:49:12] <JT-Shop> with all encoders and db25 and 5v unplugged TB1 pin 1 is 4.8ohms to frame
[18:49:51] <PCW> umm missing 100 ohm resistor
[18:49:57] <PCW> ?
[18:52:23] <JT-Shop> I don't see anything missing, which one should I look at?
[18:53:19] <PCW> the 24V I/O is isolated only the encoders and analog GND connect to 5V GND so pull plugs until you get open and plug back in a connector at a time
[18:55:14] <PCW> looks like least one of the analog connectors has a direct connection to frame GND
[18:57:23] <JT-Shop> if I disconnect the analog to the drives I get open, as I connect each one back in the ohms go down
[18:58:20] <PCW> well if the resistors are 100 Ohms, I would expect 33 for all 3 in parallel
[18:58:39] <JT-Shop> I took the resistors out to test
[18:59:33] <JT-Shop> they look like brown black brown
[18:59:52] <JT-Shop> knocked them on the floor have to find them again
[18:59:52] <PCW> that's right
[19:00:40] <PCW> and the should go from the 7I77 gnd (adjacent to the AOUT pin) to the servodrive analog common
[19:01:13] <PCW> (in series with the GND connection)
[19:01:16] <JT-Shop> that's where they were, I'll put them back
[19:03:18] <PCW> when installed I would expect ~33 Ohms from TB1 pin1 to frame ground with everything but DB25 plugged in
[19:06:14] <JT-Shop> I lost one, I'll find one in the morning and put them back in
[19:08:48] <Tom_itx> it's on that clean floor
[19:09:10] <PCW> So was it ever you tested with resistors installed but 5V common disconnected from frame ground?
[19:09:13] <Tom_itx> probably why you can't find it
[19:09:13] <JT-Shop> lol it is under something
[19:09:45] <JT-Shop> turned out the 5v was not connected to ground at the power supply
[19:10:07] <JT-Shop> when I unplugged TB1 I got open between 0v and frame at the power supply
[19:11:32] <PCW> so when were the analog gnd resistors removed (and therefore 5 Ohms from 7I77 Gnd to frame)?
[19:12:18] <JT-Shop> just a few minutes ago
[19:13:48] <JT-Shop> I have a 5i20 would a 7i33TA be better for this machine?
[19:14:10] <Tom_itx> that's just a breakout board isn't it?
[19:14:10] <PCW> JT-Shop TB1 pin 1 shows 5 ohm to frame
[19:14:45] <JT-Shop> The 7I33TA is a 4 axis analog servo interfaces
[19:15:06] <Tom_itx> i'm thinking of something else then
[19:16:06] <PCW> "TB1 pin 1 shows 5 ohm to frame"
[19:16:07] <PCW> was about 1 hour ago
[19:16:14] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:16:29] <JT-Shop> I took them out when I got back this afternoon
[19:16:42] <JT-Shop> just testing
[19:17:11] <PCW> before you updated the firmware?
[19:17:23] <PCW> (with 77f.bit)
[19:17:30] <JT-Shop> after I think
[19:19:10] <JT-Shop> would a 5i20 7i33TA 7i37TA be more tolerant of the problems I'm having on the BP?
[19:20:19] <enleth> When documentation corrections are the cause of a problem: marking things with a pencil on a PCB prototype
[19:20:27] <enleth> What could possibly go worng?
[19:20:29] <enleth> *wrong
[19:23:32] <PCW> yes because it doens't have serial connections that can be disrupted by ground loops that develop
[19:23:33] <PCW> volts of noise along the cable but if you can make the 7I77 work with the analog connections removed
[19:23:35] <PCW> its probably relatively easy to fix with proper grounding (or the isolator)
[19:24:30] <JT-Shop> I have the 7i77ISOL on order
[19:25:05] <JT-Shop> I'll put the resistors back in the morning and look at grounding more
[19:25:19] <PCW> how far is the PC from the servo cabinet and does it have the same power source?
[19:26:24] <PCW> (as the servo drives)
[19:35:12] <Erant> Crap. Why is it always the last operation where something goes wrong and you lose the part?
[19:39:25] <Roguish> JT-Shop: I use a 5i20 + 7i33 on my BP SII. they're great.
[19:40:19] <Roguish> JT-Shop: I use a 5i20 + 7i33 on my BP SII. they are great.
[19:42:27] <Roguish> I also use a 7i37 'cause I have a habit of letting out the magic smoke.......