#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-12-04

[00:00:20] <renesis> its pretty common
[00:01:08] <renesis> seems to be cheaper to paint unpigmented plastic chrome than injecting chrome looking plastic
[00:01:16] <renesis> doesnt look as good
[00:13:32] <jesseg> Jymmm, interesting...
[00:13:40] <jesseg> I mean I knew there were silvery colored paints
[00:14:14] <jesseg> and I saw some youtube videos of spray on chrome in a rattle can for artistic purposes.
[00:14:30] <jesseg> I just didn't know if it was of optical quality suitable for a flashlight reflector
[00:15:09] <jesseg> wow they get that VW plate so clean you could eat off of it
[00:16:25] <renesis> i think the finish is more important that the reflectivity
[00:16:57] <renesis> white paint with a perfect gloss finish is probably going to work better than silver paint with a fucked up or matte finish
[00:17:57] <jesseg> well, if you're trying to focus the light to a beam, then yeah surface is crucial although the color below the surface doesn't matter. If it's glossy black it probably focuses just as much as glossy white :P
[00:18:04] <jesseg> and still not very much
[00:22:14] <jesseg> In other words, white paint with a 100% reflection efficiency will still reflect in a diffuse manner except the surface reflection which is only a small portion of the reflected light
[00:49:59] <renesis> jesseg: ya but then people would be like wtf @ black reflector
[00:50:32] <jesseg> haha yeah that'd be funny
[00:56:22] <ReadError> check those flashlight forums
[00:57:07] <ReadError> BLF, CPF
[01:32:21] <jesseg> oh yeah good idea
[01:43:19] <enleth> zeeshan|2: the "sharing circuit" in most PSUs designed for parallel operation is really just some high power diodes or a FET with a simple control circuit that emulates a diode with a lower voltage drop
[01:53:38] <renesis> nom @ active diodes
[01:54:52] <renesis> that actually sounds a lot like the output transistor bank switching in class-H amplifiers
[02:40:23] <Deejay> moin
[04:20:34] <markvandenborre> anyone around here running a mechmate?
[05:00:04] <XXCoder> MattyManure: guess your maturity went too far? ;)
[05:01:13] <XXCoder> whats up
[05:08:44] <MattoMatic> I forget nick changes show up in all channels :)
[05:08:48] <XXCoder> lol
[05:09:14] <XXCoder> I guessed it was for another channel
[05:33:11] <jthornton> 50 down 15 to go
[05:33:33] <XXCoder> 50 down and 15 thousand to go>?
[05:43:02] <XXCoder> Jymmm: wow, guy should have pulled over but glad it went well.
[05:47:30] <__rob2> anyone got any tips for holding a part exactly flat with respect to the 'faced' side, when you flip it over to remove the material that was used to hold it in the clamp ?
[05:47:47] <XXCoder> SMOOTH surface
[05:47:52] <__rob2> some kind of precision block inthe vice ?
[05:48:00] <XXCoder> as well as tap down when vice tightened
[05:48:15] <XXCoder> make sure not to overtorque so it dont bow out
[05:51:43] <__rob2> right, http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=31759
[05:51:48] <__rob2> thats my vise
[05:51:59] <XXCoder> not bad. at wo0rk I usually use kurt
[05:52:05] <__rob2> I dont have stepped jaws on it tho
[05:52:07] <XXCoder> (hurt kurt) :P
[05:52:29] <__rob2> so this is my issue, I need to stand off the part
[05:52:36] <__rob2> so I can mill off the bit that was originally holding it
[05:52:45] <XXCoder> no parallels?
[05:53:08] <__rob2> no :/
[05:53:12] <__rob2> not yet
[05:53:16] <XXCoder> 123s would work I guess
[05:53:22] <__rob2> so thats the way forward?
[05:53:40] <__rob2> 'chock' it up on parallels ?
[05:53:43] <XXCoder> I would think that'd work. just make sure ita damn clean
[05:53:48] <__rob2> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/OXD3723930K?gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnP_VfYDVafx_dAXMmU83hnPp2JuDumlDZK7XBxGpIRrUaAlVm8P8HAQ
[05:53:50] <__rob2> something like that ?
[05:53:56] <XXCoder> whats your parallelism tolence?
[05:54:00] <XXCoder> .01? .0001?
[05:54:25] <__rob2> well, this is me just testing
[05:54:34] <XXCoder> ahh
[05:54:37] <__rob2> to see how good I can get it
[05:54:54] <__rob2> ideally 0.00000001 ofc :D
[05:54:55] <XXCoder> yeah, 123 block would help keep it parallel
[05:54:58] <XXCoder> lol
[05:55:20] <__rob2> but realistically looking for the best method. if that means getting a set of stepped jaws for hte vice's
[05:55:22] <__rob2> then I'll do that
[05:55:37] <XXCoder> I do suggest buying a kit of parallels, usually 7 sizes from around inch and half down to half inch
[05:55:38] <__rob2> but if some parallels are a decent method, I'll do that
[05:56:31] <XXCoder> dunno about other shops but shop I work at use parallels a lot.
[05:56:35] <__rob2> also want to see how much lift I get from teh jaws from over tightening
[05:56:59] <XXCoder> kurts are well known to me on how it do stuff but not that brand you linkjed
[05:57:24] <XXCoder> largest risk from overtightening I think is bowing
[05:57:33] <XXCoder> expecially if not that thick part
[06:00:02] <__rob2> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/OXD3723640K?gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnPyjV5P8yUh_rf3TC5wf89DnvBJ21l_LWaXoBUlTkqOwaApC28P8HAQ
[06:00:05] <__rob2> that looks ok
[06:00:28] <XXCoder> wow
[06:00:34] <XXCoder> thats thicker than ones I use at work
[06:00:46] <XXCoder> I'd say ones I use is umm 4 mm thick?
[06:00:52] <XXCoder> maybe 3
[06:05:38] <__rob2> ahh, 10mm is quite nice tho
[06:05:55] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:06:04] <XXCoder> 123 would do in a pinch though lol
[06:06:35] <__rob2> now its whether I actually need a 28pc set
[06:07:20] <__rob2> prob only ever use like 2 sets
[06:07:20] <Jymmm> __rob2: crazy glue
[06:14:54] <XXCoder> advanced pumbling. https://i.chzbgr.com/full/4703697152/h9F8B81DB/
[06:37:56] <zeeshan|2> :D
[06:38:55] <XXCoder> hey super Z
[06:38:59] <XXCoder> whats up
[06:39:04] <zeeshan|2> leaving to work :P
[06:39:10] <zeeshan|2> but that advanced plumbing looks nice
[06:39:10] <XXCoder> lol later
[06:39:11] <zeeshan|2> haha
[06:39:14] <XXCoder> yup
[06:39:31] <XXCoder> seriously who would break glass for it?
[06:39:48] <XXCoder> looks like big and expensive glass too.
[06:57:20] <Tom_itx> need a $60 drill press? http://www.harborfreight.com/
[06:57:35] <Tom_itx> junk sale has been extended
[06:57:50] <malcom2073> woohoo
[06:59:59] <_methods> free flashlight
[07:00:17] <XXCoder> too bad already own drill press lol
[07:00:36] <XXCoder> they probably overbought for friday so they have to get rid of em lol
[07:00:53] <Tom_itx> _methods, you _might_ get your money's worth there
[07:00:59] <_methods> right
[07:01:06] <_methods> too bad i have a box full of them already lol
[07:01:10] <XXCoder> forgot how much watts a small house would use?
[07:01:25] <XXCoder> You have box full of drill presses?
[07:01:35] <MikkoP> Hey =)
[07:01:38] <XXCoder> hey
[07:02:09] <MikkoP> Ordered ballscrews and accessories for the CNC :D
[07:02:33] <XXCoder> cool, what type of cnc? mill router lazer or 4d?
[07:03:12] <malcom2073> Watts?
[07:03:33] <XXCoder> do compact air pressure supply constant air? might be useful for my cnc chip clearing
[07:03:36] <MikkoP> A normal router
[07:03:54] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yeah that site has 45 watts solar on sale
[07:04:09] <Tom_itx> XXCoder, depends how much volume air you need
[07:04:14] <malcom2073> My house averages out to about 2-3kw a day
[07:04:31] <XXCoder> lol ok
[07:04:45] <malcom2073> a 45w panel will probably average out to about 5-10w over the course of a day
[07:04:48] <malcom2073> if you're lucky
[07:05:02] <XXCoder> yeah dont seem good
[07:05:20] <XXCoder> great for emergacy lights though, if paired with battery
[07:05:23] <malcom2073> It's overpriced anyway
[07:05:54] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: constant supply of enough to blow chips away
[07:05:59] <malcom2073> $2 a watt is about right for smaller panels, $1 a watt when you get into the multi-kw stuff
[07:06:27] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Depends on how much flow you want :P
[07:06:30] <Tom_itx> XXCoder that compressor isn't gonna last long. it's oilless
[07:06:44] <malcom2073> Those pancake compressors don't put out but about as much as you can blow constantly
[07:07:05] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: yeah I would rather use my bro's big compressor, though that would run out of air evenually.
[07:07:24] <Tom_itx> figure about how much air you get from a 'free air' station
[07:07:37] <XXCoder> thats not too bad for 7 bucks
[07:09:43] <MikkoP> Haha, just asked a local THK reseller about those linear guides. 600 mm with one of those sliding things of their lowest quality for 100 euros. :D
[07:09:57] <malcom2073> That's pretty cheap
[07:10:02] <malcom2073> for new thk
[07:10:13] <XXCoder> THK nic
[07:10:16] <XXCoder> nice
[07:10:36] <MikkoP> Maybe but for my needs that's an overkill. I'll just order some from China
[07:10:58] <malcom2073> Get hiwin rails, if you go really cheap they may feel like sand heh
[07:11:38] <XXCoder> rebuild em
[07:11:48] <XXCoder> rebuild rails., we have the techology! :P
[07:13:04] <malcom2073> Scrape 'em while you're at it? :P
[07:13:11] <MikkoP> I know someone at a company that use Hiwin guides. He said they might have some left overs I could have. I'll go check them out later today. Hopefully they'd have enough for my needs :D
[07:13:29] <malcom2073> ebay has used rails for pretty cheap too as another option
[07:14:12] <ReadError> my hiwin's are pretty smooth
[07:14:16] <ReadError> i removed the seal though
[07:14:19] <MikkoP> Ebay doesn't have the best selection of those which is quite odd, usually you can find everything from eBay.
[07:14:25] <ReadError> wiper?
[07:15:50] <malcom2073> Really? There are hundreds of rails on ebay heh
[07:16:54] <MikkoP> They do, but most of them are still out of my price range. I know those are expensive but I'm still trying to save as much as possible
[07:17:14] <malcom2073> Can you use SBR isntead of square rail? If it's a wood router that should be fine
[07:17:46] <MikkoP> SBR? You mean rounded shafts?
[07:18:03] <malcom2073> yeah supported shafts
[07:18:29] <malcom2073> Though tbh, 15mm square rail is often cheaper
[07:19:59] <MikkoP> Without the support it's even cheaper. My machine is going to be so small that it doesn't really need anything fancy
[07:20:13] <malcom2073> True, but without support you need pretty large rails even for short spans
[07:20:15] <malcom2073> How big is your machine?
[07:20:39] <MikkoP> Well I've been looking into 600 mm long rails so...
[07:20:43] <MikkoP> Pretty small for a CNC
[07:21:00] <malcom2073> Yeah you're not ging to get any kind of precision with a 600mm span of unsupported rails
[07:21:34] <MikkoP> Are they so bad?
[07:21:41] <XXCoder> depends on what material MikkoP is cutting
[07:21:53] <XXCoder> wood you can do precision with drawer slides
[07:21:58] <malcom2073> I have 500mm 16mm rails, and they flex enough to be noticable just by pushing with my hand
[07:22:02] <XXCoder> as long as its paired with good screws
[07:22:04] <archivist_herron> an unsupported rail is a spring
[07:22:44] <archivist_herron> I can measure bent in 250mm of 50mm bar
[07:22:48] <malcom2073> You could go with like the makerslide or some other vgroove stuff
[07:22:50] <archivist_herron> bend
[07:23:02] <malcom2073> That stuff isn't terribly expensive
[07:23:08] <MikkoP> If it's circular and supported, how thick should it be?
[07:23:49] <archivist_herron> most rail systems are only as good as the frame they are bolted to
[07:24:06] <XXCoder> SBR supported rail system
[07:26:18] <MikkoP> I have 100x50mm steel box section bars of 6mm thickness. If I come up with a good way to use that I think I have stiff enough frame
[07:26:45] <malcom2073> Holy hell heh
[07:26:48] <malcom2073> yeah that'd be stiff enough
[07:27:09] <malcom2073> You could bolt and pin it
[07:29:02] <MikkoP> Wouldn't that flex?
[07:29:33] <malcom2073> Everything flexes, it's a matter of how much is acceptable
[07:29:59] <malcom2073> You could probably build a frame capable of milling aluminum out of that sort of stuff
[07:30:22] <archivist_herron> think about the accuracy/resolution you want then work backwards
[07:30:56] <archivist_herron> but that may give you a less than ideal stiffness
[07:31:04] <MikkoP> I'm just worried about how I can cut and connect the pieces well enough. I mean if ther's a millimeter of difference in length, it causes the frame not to be straight. With those bearings it's not good
[07:31:04] <archivist_herron> add webbing
[07:31:39] <archivist_herron> file to make equal and square
[07:32:19] <MikkoP> Yea.
[07:32:49] <archivist_herron> some handwork is acceptable on a new build
[07:32:53] <MikkoP> And again, I'm not going to aim for fractions of millimeters. This is a low budget machine that I'm building just for fun
[07:33:12] <XXCoder> MikkoP: what you plan to cut?
[07:33:21] <XXCoder> wood? air? titanium?
[07:33:31] <Tom_itx> inconel
[07:33:35] <MikkoP> Titanium of course :D
[07:34:06] <XXCoder> inconel is pretty tough. when I engrave disks of inconel it eats tools quite quickly (30 parts per tool)
[07:34:08] <MikkoP> Nah, mostly wood. If I get a good enough drill I might try aluminum
[07:37:29] <XXCoder> your steel frame would be plenty strong for it
[07:37:53] <XXCoder> hell you can build your cnc router from wood (besides hardware like rails and screws)
[07:38:05] <XXCoder> as long as properly designed for rigidity
[07:38:31] <MikkoP> Yea
[07:38:40] <malcom2073> I thought about making a wood frame for my 5x10 router heh
[07:38:51] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yeah boxed type is very strong
[07:38:55] <XXCoder> for wood anyway
[07:39:04] <malcom2073> My rails would be stronger than my frame though
[07:39:05] <MikkoP> The deal with SBR is that I would need two rails of them for every axis. I'd need to use them in pairs
[07:39:57] <malcom2073> That'll happen with any rail type
[07:40:36] <MikkoP> Hmm probably
[07:40:41] <MikkoP> What about 12mm vs 16mm?
[07:41:06] <MikkoP> I have 16mm bearings but they aren't the open type
[07:41:17] <malcom2073> To be honest with support rail, larger rails get you larger blocks, and the blocks are the weak point of those rails
[07:41:49] <MikkoP> They aren't very high quality if 15 euros buy you four of them
[07:45:59] <malcom2073> Oooo slipring: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G20822&mc_cid=350c5bdd88&mc_eid=b0f1b42793
[07:46:09] <malcom2073> Those kind of things make me want to make spinny things
[07:48:49] <MikkoP> Just a sec, reboot
[07:51:15] <MikkoP> My laptop stopped working... it installed some larger Windows update a few days ago and has been acting up since
[07:51:33] <malcom2073> Did it install windows 10? That's a pretty large windows update that acts up
[07:51:46] <MikkoP> I already had 10 but some update for that
[07:52:19] <malcom2073> So, are you building this from a design, or designing it yourself?
[07:52:56] <MikkoP> Just putting my own ideas together. I've googled a lot and have been influenced by other designs but not going to copy any specific
[07:53:34] <malcom2073> Cool, rough road, but a lot of fun heh
[07:53:50] <MikkoP> That's the purpose, to have fun
[07:55:26] <MikkoP> And also to learn something. Haven't ever done anything in this scale or played with anything moving
[07:57:54] <MikkoP> But what about the rail diameter, 12mm or 16mm?
[08:00:03] <malcom2073> If there isn't a huge price difference I'd go larger, but that's just me
[08:01:02] <MikkoP> 10 euros more for the larger size
[08:02:45] <MikkoP> http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-linear-slide-guide-shaft-SBR16-600mm-2-rail-4-SBR16UU-bearing-block-CNC-set-/161188859108?hash=item25879acce4:g:IyIAAOxyzi9Sma6G
[08:04:49] <SpeedEvil> Stiffness goes as dimension^3 - neglecting anything else.
[08:05:15] <SpeedEvil> It's a bit more than twice as stiff with the thicker rail
[08:06:29] <archivist_herron> size does matter :)
[08:06:34] <MikkoP> lol
[08:08:47] <MikkoP> SpeedEvil: How so? If stiffness for those is 12^3 and 16^3 relatively speaking, (16^3 - 12^3) / (12^3) is roughly 1,4 so 40 % stiffer?
[08:17:02] <SpeedEvil> err
[08:17:33] <SpeedEvil> that's clearly bogus.
[08:17:38] <SpeedEvil> I'm not awake enough to say why.
[08:17:45] <malcom2073> Difference in dimension?
[08:17:46] <SpeedEvil> x^3!>x
[08:17:53] <SpeedEvil> < even
[08:19:15] <SpeedEvil> Ah - it's (16^3/12^3) / (12^3/12^3)
[08:19:51] <MikkoP> Umm, what's the point of that divisor?
[08:20:25] <SpeedEvil> Looking at it another way:
[08:20:47] <SpeedEvil> 1.5 is 2.4 times stiffer than 1
[08:20:52] <SpeedEvil> err
[08:20:57] * SpeedEvil is not awake.
[08:21:09] <SpeedEvil> 1.33^3
[08:22:20] * archivist_herron recommends Roark's formulas for stress and strains W. Young McGraw
[08:23:24] <SpeedEvil> yes, but if you don't know that widening a beam in a given direction by n stiffens it by n^3, you're going to have a bad time.
[08:23:34] <SpeedEvil> (shape kept equal, assuming no torsion or ...
[08:25:38] <archivist_herron> all those lovely shape factors
[08:27:18] <MikkoP> So the final result is that 16mm is how many percent stiffer than 12mm?
[08:27:41] <lair82> pcw_home, you around?
[08:28:24] <SpeedEvil> MikkoP: ~2.4*
[08:28:30] <SpeedEvil> 1.33^3
[08:29:05] <SpeedEvil> This is the bar only,
[08:29:18] <archivist_herron> MikkoP, without working it out I would not say, but for those supported rails that stiffness matters sideways (eg cutting force)
[08:29:26] <SpeedEvil> The slop in the bearings is unrelated - though it seems likely that larger bearings will be better in every way
[08:29:44] <SpeedEvil> And yes - it really depends if you're hanging everything off the bar, or using the bar to drive a carridge in some manner
[08:29:54] <archivist_herron> the vertical support and frame help
[08:31:25] <MikkoP> Okay... so let's just say it is stiffer :D
[08:36:20] <MattoMatic> SpeedEvil, does that n^3 apply if you only widen in one direction? I thought a round shaft 2n diameter was 8x stiffer which in n^3, but I thought that was 4x the material, multiplied by 2x the average distance from pivot
[08:38:49] <tjtr33> hello, is MAH irc logs down?
[08:49:42] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, the local makerspace here has a DLP. ( and a boatload of broken tiny wiggly engravers/GGGs etc )
[08:50:07] <SpeedEvil> If you increase the diameter twice and load it in one direction, - making it round not oval - then you get the n^3 due to the increase in height and the 2n from the doubling in width
[08:50:10] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[08:50:31] <SpeedEvil> So it's 2n^3
[08:50:58] <SpeedEvil> Please note, I could be confused.
[09:29:43] <Jymmm> could be?!
[09:30:52] <Jymmm> Damn... 5TB $98
[09:40:50] <pcw_home> lair82: yeah
[09:57:26] <lair82> pcw_home, I ran the latency test all night, with 1 glxgears running, and it was at 11094 this morning. Stopped the latency test, started linuxcnc, machine was sitting idle, power on hydraulics running for about a hour and a half, and the I got this, http://postimg.org/image/u4pp3a1j9/
[10:00:38] <pcw_home> All those errors are latency issues (the first real error message: unexpected real time delay)
[10:04:26] <lair82> I disabled everything on the MB yesterday that I could see,
[10:06:29] <pcw_home> you need to disable all c states
[10:06:35] <lair82> What do you think could be causing this, if the latency test is showing some good results like it is?
[10:07:06] <lair82> c states??
[10:07:20] <pcw_home> that latency test unfortunately doesn't actually do anything so is not a great test
[10:08:44] <pcw_home> c states are the various processor power down states, if you can you should disable all bu C0 or C1
[10:16:49] <ZATK> I'm here to be educated on why I should be using linuxcnc rather then arduino for a CNC
[10:17:33] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: They do almost entirely different things.
[10:17:41] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by 'CNC'
[10:18:29] <ZATK> I'm looking at building a router for cutting in 3d
[10:18:46] <ZATK> using a router not building a router
[10:19:17] <SpeedEvil> For cutting what.
[10:19:39] <ZATK> wood, aluminum, steal(not sure about that)
[10:19:49] <ZATK> plastics
[10:19:58] <archivist_herron> you need a solid machine for steel
[10:20:15] <pcw_home> lair82" Having a unexpected realtime delay on a 1 KHz servo thread means a rather huge latency spike
[10:20:17] <pcw_home> It may also be something in your hal file, so it may be worthwhile looking at the tmax numbers
[10:20:18] <pcw_home> to see where the time is going hm2_7i80.0.read.tmax is a good one to check but also the classic ladder tmax should be looked at
[10:20:29] <ZATK> Well I'm wondering why I would use LinuxCNC rather then arduino.
[10:20:41] <lair82> pcw_home page 66 in this describes the bios c states, disable all but "Enhanced Halt State (C1E)"
[10:20:48] <archivist_herron> because of all the extra options with linuxcnc
[10:21:26] <FinboySlick> lair82: If the load on your machine does not vary during the test (just running glxgears), you aren't really testing it.
[10:21:32] <ZATK> where can I find all the extra features linuxcnc will provide me
[10:21:37] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: 'arduino' is not a thing.
[10:21:46] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: What software running on it.
[10:21:58] <archivist_herron> lair82, I have seen bad latency from text scrolling rather than glxgears, all depends on the motherboard
[10:22:05] <ZATK> reprap
[10:22:21] <lair82> Ok, going out to the machine, going to check on these c states, then check the tmax numbers
[10:22:31] <archivist_herron> reprap is not for machining
[10:23:09] <ZATK> I get that is not for machining but why would I not use it
[10:23:33] <archivist_herron> do you use a plastic spanner or a steel spanner
[10:23:46] <malcom2073> ZATK: To start, its motion control is total crap, and will likely break tools
[10:24:27] <malcom2073> You could use grbl for machining, many people do, but I wouldn't use it for a large and fast machine like a router
[10:24:29] <ZATK> malcom2073 could you expand on that thought a bit. Like why does it do that.
[10:24:52] * Jymmm snickers
[10:25:03] <Erant> Because its programmers are shit?
[10:25:04] <malcom2073> ZATK: Because it uses a bastardized version of junction deviation that totally ignores acceleration requirements
[10:25:25] <malcom2073> It also assumes instananious velocity changes are possible (infinite acceleration)
[10:25:29] <ZATK> That sounds important
[10:25:33] <SpeedEvil> 3d printing is _enormously_ simpler than machining.
[10:25:44] <malcom2073> Not for reprap, reprap machines are flimsy enough that they work perfectly fine with this limitation
[10:25:48] <SpeedEvil> With 3d printing, you have no unexpected large toolforces.
[10:25:58] <Erant> All you're pushing is air, largely.
[10:26:06] <SpeedEvil> You typically have a flexible machine that can ignore poor motion control
[10:26:08] <pcw_home> lair82: for uspace and complicated hal files, its probably not dispatch latency (what the latency test checks)
[10:26:09] <pcw_home> thats the issue but rather some function (or functions) that are taking too much time occasionally
[10:26:13] <Jymmm> I push nitrogen baby!
[10:26:38] <ZATK> What do I need for LinuxCNC
[10:26:43] <malcom2073> A PC with a parallel port
[10:26:45] <Erant> ZATK: A computer.
[10:26:47] <SpeedEvil> For proper machining, you have high tool forces pushing back, requiring a rigid machine, and very small uncommanded moves will wreck a tool
[10:27:00] <ZATK> serial?
[10:27:04] <malcom2073> No, parallel
[10:27:19] <Erant> Serial is too slow.
[10:27:57] <ZATK> computer specs you guys recommend?
[10:28:09] <Erant> I bought the cheapest PC I could find.
[10:28:37] <Erant> It's sort of a crapshoot, as there's a lot of things that can affect performance.
[10:29:05] <Erant> Where performance is mostly powerstate management, I guess.
[10:29:06] <ZATK> I have a parallel port on a pentium 2
[10:29:08] <SpeedEvil> Any comptuer you have lying around with a parallel port (or connection for one on the motherboard) and test
[10:29:11] <SpeedEvil> It can be quite old
[10:29:40] <Erant> Yeah, give that a shot, see how well it works.
[10:29:49] <Erant> I bought a Dell Optiplex GX620 for $25.
[10:29:54] <ZATK> I need to buy CDs
[10:29:57] <ZATK> dam
[10:30:28] <Erant> ZATK: What machine are you running this on?
[10:30:41] <Erant> As in, which router.
[10:30:52] <ZATK> Dewalt 611
[10:31:02] <Erant> That's a spindle.
[10:31:31] <ZATK> what?
[10:32:04] <Erant> I was wondering what your actual CNC router was. Chinese 3040 or something? Homemade?
[10:32:09] <ZATK> did you think I was going to run a CNC on a network router?
[10:32:21] <ZATK> I'm building a CNC
[10:32:28] <ZATK> I don't have one
[10:32:40] <malcom2073> ZATK: Dewalt 611 is a router
[10:32:41] <Erant> k, those are generally called CNC routers. As opposed to a CNC mill.
[10:32:44] <malcom2073> fwiw
[10:33:34] <Erant> malcom2073: Would you still call it a router once it's on the machine?
[10:33:36] <ZATK> I think I have just been calling my project CNC. I should expand to full name then.
[10:33:43] <malcom2073> Erant: Sure, it's a router spindle :P
[10:33:59] <malcom2073> ZATK: You can call it CNC, but people are going to ask what kind of CNC :P CNC just means computer numeric control
[10:34:10] <Erant> I think I can feel my brain seeping out onto my shoulder.
[10:34:12] <malcom2073> CNC router, CNC mill, CNC pick-n-place, CNC glue gun
[10:34:28] <ZATK> what would I need for a mill
[10:34:36] <Erant> A mill? :)
[10:34:45] <malcom2073> A couple thousand pounds of iron
[10:35:00] <ZATK> Is it much different construction then a CNC router setup
[10:35:15] <malcom2073> Usually smaller footprint, larger Z, and much stiffer
[10:35:19] <Erant> I converted this guy: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4660&category=1387807683
[10:35:31] <Erant> Which is 'only' about 120lbs.
[10:35:51] <Erant> Now, that's roughly the smallest mill you can get and it comes with its limitations.
[10:35:54] <Erant> It's not a bridgeport.
[10:35:54] <malcom2073> Sorry, my thousand pounds of iron comment was sarcastic :P
[10:36:02] <ZATK> So a mill is a drill press?
[10:36:06] <Erant> No no no
[10:36:07] <malcom2073> Nope
[10:36:13] <malcom2073> A drill press cannot move sideways
[10:36:14] <malcom2073> only up and down
[10:36:35] <malcom2073> They can look similar if you don't know what you're looking at though
[10:36:37] <ZATK> a mill uses a drill press for cutting
[10:36:48] <Erant> Euh.
[10:36:50] <malcom2073> No, a mill is capable of drilling though
[10:37:01] <malcom2073> A drill press can only drill. a mill can mill and drill
[10:37:48] <lair82> pcw_home here is the terminal for tmax, http://postimg.org/image/q9mb0pidh/
[10:38:00] <Erant> In the end, if what you're looking at cutting is mostly wood and plastic then a router will work fine.
[10:38:14] <Erant> A router will have trouble with aluminium. It'll cut it, but not well.
[10:39:09] <ZATK> can I make a drill press into a mill or are they different things
[10:39:10] <Erant> A mill will cut wood, plastic and aluminium with relative ease. A micro mill like mine will cut steel, but not well.
[10:39:15] <Erant> Totally different
[10:39:32] <_methods> drill presses can't handle side loading
[10:39:45] <_methods> i.e. milling
[10:39:50] <Erant> They're not designed to take the radial load.
[10:40:16] <ZATK> well what can I buy for a mill
[10:40:18] <malcom2073> Mainly because they'll fall out heh
[10:40:40] <_methods> that's like asking what can i buy to eat
[10:40:53] <jdh> pizza
[10:41:01] <SpeedEvil> A buffalo.
[10:41:03] <Erant> There's anything from Harbor Freight (Around $500) to large bridgeports (Couple of thousand)
[10:41:04] <ZATK> ok
[10:41:28] <_methods> how much money you got hehe
[10:41:40] <_methods> and how much space
[10:41:44] <ZATK> any kits for CNC mill or routers
[10:41:46] <Erant> I like my mill, though it's obviously made in China and comes with the limitations.
[10:41:51] <_methods> those are usually your big limits
[10:42:03] <Erant> ZATK: There are. http://www.cncfusion.com
[10:42:23] <Erant> That said, I would highly recommend, if you're going for a mill, to make the conversion kit yourself.
[10:42:56] <Erant> If you've never milled before. That'll give you a feel for the machine and how certain things are done.
[10:43:39] <ZATK> The mills you linked to are very small looking
[10:44:10] <Erant> They are. What were you planning on cutting?
[10:44:46] <lair82> ZATK how big of a machine are you thinking of? were are you located?
[10:45:03] <ZATK> Canada. 1m on x and y
[10:45:17] <Erant> That's a giant mill
[10:45:36] <lair82> Yes it is, here is a bridgeport style http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-CNC-Mill-Anilam-GX-M-Control-13x42-Table-NMTB-40-Spindle-/121810266497?hash=item1c5c752981:g:-KcAAOSw~gRVk~5-
[10:45:40] <jdh> 1m X is easy
[10:45:50] <ZATK> Well I feel like I'm looking for a CNC router more then a mill then
[10:45:56] <SpeedEvil> 1m x and y gets expensive
[10:46:08] <Erant> ZATK: As long as you weren't planning on cutting aluminium.
[10:46:14] <SpeedEvil> (in prefabricated machines)
[10:46:16] <lair82> Our big cincinnati vmc only has 26" in the Y, and 50" in the x
[10:46:29] <Erant> Rigidity is going to be a problem with a router that big.
[10:46:34] <ZATK> I want to cut aluminum and steel
[10:46:48] <_methods> heh
[10:46:48] <Erant> That's not happening with a router. Steel for sure not.
[10:47:21] <ZATK> yea steel was something I could live with out. I don't need to cut much of that anyways
[10:47:22] <Erant> Aluminium... If you manage to make a good rigid machine, and do high speed machining?
[10:47:39] <jdh> you can do anything with enough cash
[10:47:44] <_methods> ^^
[10:47:53] <Erant> I'm not denying that ;)
[10:47:56] <lair82> I second that
[10:48:09] <_methods> back to the question of how much money you got and how much space
[10:48:37] <ZATK> I have space for around 1m on x and y. The size I'm looking for
[10:48:58] <ZATK> $3000
[10:49:00] <SpeedEvil> It will be considerably larger than 1m*1m in footprint
[10:49:24] <ZATK> well it can be 1.2m
[10:49:25] <SpeedEvil> What depth of workpieces?
[10:49:32] <_methods> your machine footprint will normally be bigger than your workign envelope
[10:49:34] <lair82> Yep, that listing I just posted, 42" in the x needs about 120"
[10:49:48] <lair82> of width in space
[10:50:22] <_methods> most gantry style machines though are not too much bigger than the working envelope
[10:50:23] <ZATK> well I ment $2000 or under
[10:50:29] <ZATK> I was thinking in CAD
[10:50:47] <_methods> alright so no money and no space
[10:50:48] <_methods> lol
[10:51:06] <ZATK> I'm not thinking of mill
[10:51:43] <ZATK> just a router. I'm doing little Aluminium cutting. Mostly Plastic and wood
[10:51:50] <Erant> Yeah, that's about what I spent converting my CNC...
[10:52:02] <Erant> And I got lucky with a bunch of things and am not even close to being done.
[10:52:15] <ZATK> converting from what
[10:52:24] <Erant> From the little machine I posted.
[10:52:51] <ZATK> that was a mill I think. I'm hoping a router might cost less
[10:52:52] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: what are you wanting to do
[10:53:00] <_methods> $2k is the price range for one of those plywood routers
[10:53:00] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: Are you just wanting to cut sheet?
[10:53:06] <Erant> ZATK: I don't know why you think that.
[10:53:09] <_methods> like the bigfoot or whatever that thing is called
[10:53:58] <Erant> There's the chinese 6040, which is 60cm x 40cm
[10:53:59] <ZATK> what servos are you guys using?
[10:54:09] <Erant> Oh snap, you're thinking servos?
[10:54:15] <_methods> lol
[10:54:26] <Erant> If you want any chance of keeping it under $2k, go with steppers.
[10:54:27] <ZATK> what am I getting into here
[10:54:30] <_methods> https://www.buildyourcnc.com/blackfoot48v40.aspx
[10:54:43] <ZATK> dam servos. LOL
[10:54:52] <ZATK> my head mixes them up
[10:55:10] <Erant> I used servos for my mill, and I love them, but it was significantly more expensive than steppers.
[10:55:39] * SpeedEvil looks at the massive pancake servos he has.
[10:55:48] <ZATK> what is wrong with this systme
[10:55:50] <ZATK> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve
[10:56:00] <ZATK> other then arduino powered
[10:56:02] <_methods> it's perfect for you
[10:56:23] <_methods> right in your budget and large footprint
[10:57:25] <ZATK> What does it lack in?
[10:57:32] <_methods> rigidity
[10:57:46] <ZATK> They say you can cut aluminum
[10:57:49] <_methods> they lie
[10:57:59] <_methods> i'm sure you could but it won't be pretty
[10:58:02] <ZATK> They even told me it can cut steel
[10:58:03] <_methods> i can bend steel
[10:58:09] <_methods> just like superman
[10:58:17] <_methods> when it's 1mm thick lol
[10:58:33] <SpeedEvil> Again, it depends.
[10:58:43] <SpeedEvil> If you want to cut sheet only, teh machine can get a _lot_ simpler
[10:58:49] <ZATK> They were like it can now that we are using Dewalt 611
[10:59:05] <Erant> ZATK: There's a reason mills exist.
[10:59:12] <SpeedEvil> Similarly if you are willing to make a ragged cut with the tool lasting 1% of its nominal life
[11:00:39] <ZATK> I think the steel part is a bit of a lie
[11:00:51] <ZATK> but aluminum
[11:01:11] <ZATK> I think they recommend buying special bits
[11:01:18] <Erant> Again, what are you cutting?
[11:01:33] <Erant> Sheet, or big honking bars?
[11:02:15] <ZATK> aluminium(small amounts), plastics(large amounts), wood(large amounts)
[11:02:31] <Erant> I made my servo mounts out of 3"x1.25" aluminum bar. The X-Carve wouldn't be able to handle that.
[11:02:43] <Erant> What kind of aluminum though.
[11:03:19] <Erant> Sheet (engraving, maybe some shallow cuts) or bars (big heavy pocketing cuts)
[11:03:58] <ZATK> that sounds close
[11:04:16] <Erant> That was question. Which one is it, sheet or bars?
[11:04:27] <ZATK> sheets
[11:04:39] <Erant> k, then go with the X-Carve, you'll be OK.
[11:04:58] <Erant> Just... don't cut steel ;P
[11:05:00] <ZATK> Could I slow down the system to do bars?
[11:05:15] <ZATK> like take breaks
[11:05:18] <Erant> It doesn't work like that.
[11:05:46] <archivist> it is cutting forces and vibration
[11:05:53] <SpeedEvil> The cutting force depends on how much tool you have plunged into the work and cutting at once
[11:06:23] <SpeedEvil> With a caveat that any vibration in your machine will typically worsen the peak cutting force and ruin your finish
[11:06:30] <ZATK> I'm wondering if I use a plasma/lazer cutter
[11:07:17] <anomynous_> water jet? =)
[11:07:23] <Erant> Nice.
[11:07:34] <Erant> Might blow the budget a little.
[11:07:40] <anomynous_> so does laser
[11:07:48] <Erant> Well yes.
[11:08:17] <anomynous_> water jet is slower, but leaves better finish and more accurate dimensions.
[11:08:26] <ZATK> I know you can get cheep lazer cutters that can do small passes
[11:08:38] <anomynous_> on steel?
[11:08:47] <archivist> never leave a laser unattended
[11:09:08] <Erant> ZATK: You're not going to be looking at a solid state loser.
[11:09:10] <Erant> laser*
[11:09:12] <Erant> Hah.
[11:09:36] <Erant> You're going to be looking at a CO2 laser tube capable of putting out 40-100W (and your eye)
[11:09:51] <archivist> and your house
[11:09:56] <Erant> Scary mofos, those.
[11:10:01] <Erant> I wouldn't go near one.
[11:10:06] <ZATK> hmm
[11:11:14] <ZATK> I'm thinking of getting that x-carve
[11:11:15] <malcom2073> mills can kill you, lasers can hurt you in ways you would wish you were dead
[11:11:42] <anomynous_> mills only kill you if you put a car rim in spindle and crank up the rpm ;D
[11:11:49] <anomynous_> or put your hand in the spindle
[11:11:56] <ZATK> I will worry about lazers and mills if I find I need a more stronger system
[11:11:58] <Erant> Disc sanders.
[11:12:08] <Erant> Disc sanders are the scariest machine in the shop.
[11:12:25] <ZATK> yea Disc sanders
[11:12:27] <Erant> Those fuckers eat fingers for breakfast lunch and dinner.
[11:13:15] <anomynous_> a grinder once took my workpiece for a loop ;D It didnt really eject, but it gave a good hit on fingers.
[11:13:16] <lair82> That was funny
[11:13:23] <ZATK> if you put a piece of wood on the wrong side a disc sander you get a flying wood block
[11:14:10] <malcom2073> Yeah I'll give you that, disc sanders are scary, though a table saw scares me the worst out of any tool I think
[11:14:19] <archivist> I managed nearly 50ft or more with an over arm saw
[11:14:30] <malcom2073> I've had it kick back from me doing something stupid, so I've been terrified of it since.
[11:14:32] <anomynous_> over arm saw?
[11:15:08] <ZATK> So should I upgrade the X-Carve to use linuxcnc
[11:15:29] <ZATK> will I get benefits from doing that
[11:15:36] <malcom2073> That depends, what is it currently doing that annoys you?
[11:15:38] <anomynous_> lathes can be dangerous with flimsy workpiece attachments. Co-worker once told about an engineer who left a note that everything is ready. Just press the green button. Once he did, the workpiece ejected the lathe.
[11:15:38] <archivist> anomynous_, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCUTuEmByNc
[11:15:44] <anomynous_> he had forgotten to fasten the jaws
[11:15:56] <_methods> i've seen angle grinders get more people than anything
[11:16:07] <jdh> key in chuck
[11:16:24] <malcom2073> Oh we just call those radial arm saws here in the US
[11:16:35] <malcom2073> overarm is more appropriate though
[11:16:37] <_methods> yeah key in chuck always gets the n00bs
[11:16:39] <ZATK> Can I get faster speed on x-carve
[11:16:49] <jdh> guy at work was wearing cut resistant rubber gloves while using a lathe
[11:17:03] <_methods> not sure i like where this story is giong
[11:17:04] <malcom2073> ZATK: Are you hitting the limits of your machine, or of your control electronics?
[11:17:05] <_methods> going
[11:17:15] <jdh> touched the part and the gloves grabbed
[11:17:20] <_methods> ouch
[11:17:21] <archivist> ZATK, dont confuse the cam software with cutting speed
[11:17:41] <ZATK> I'm just wondering why I would upgrade from arduino solution to linuxCNC
[11:17:57] <enleth> _methods: angle grinders? seriously?
[11:18:09] <archivist> because aaaarguino is less than good
[11:18:19] <_methods> yeah angle grinders are bad news
[11:18:25] <malcom2073> ZATK: If the arduino is doing what you need, keep using it
[11:18:30] <_methods> i've seen more people injured by them than any tool ever
[11:18:34] <SpeedEvil> _methods: people putting wrong disks in?
[11:18:40] <SpeedEvil> Or just screwing around
[11:18:49] <_methods> hitting their hands, getting caught in clothes, chips in eyes
[11:18:52] <_methods> you name it
[11:18:59] <malcom2073> I ran into limitations when I tried using it, so I moved to linuxcnc for my stuff
[11:19:04] <CaptHindsight> most of the *dunio applications and firmware were written by noobs so it still has lots of quirks
[11:19:07] <_methods> angle grinders are injury machines
[11:19:28] <malcom2073> Really?
[11:19:34] <enleth> _methods: in my experience, the bigger the grinder, the safer it is. static inertia and gyroscopic action of the heavy rotor keep it from doing funny things
[11:19:34] <malcom2073> I've never had an issue with an angle grinder
[11:19:40] <ZATK> can I make a parallel port and raspberry pi
[11:19:47] <ZATK> *on not and
[11:19:51] <_methods> count yourself lucky
[11:19:56] <malcom2073> Some people have tried stuff running on a raspberry pi, it's not really made for it
[11:19:58] <enleth> a small one will snag and twist out od your hands
[11:20:05] <malcom2073> You can run machinekit on a beaglebone black, which is a linuxcnc fork
[11:20:22] <malcom2073> Hmm, come to think of it, I've never used it to cut slits in things
[11:20:27] <malcom2073> I could see it grabbing then
[11:20:36] <CaptHindsight> a fun one I discovered yesterday is that the Marlin firmware ignores the max limit switch after homing if the min limit switch is home
[11:20:53] <_methods> people use angle grinders all day long and they get tired or complacent
[11:20:54] <enleth> malcom2073: that and cutting thick things
[11:20:58] <_methods> that's when they get nailed
[11:21:12] <_methods> especially the wire brush cups
[11:21:14] <malcom2073> Yeah
[11:21:18] <_methods> they catch people shirts
[11:21:25] <malcom2073> Ah yeah that'd be bad
[11:21:25] <_methods> then run right up their stomach
[11:21:30] <malcom2073> Ouch
[11:21:35] <archivist> I do a lot of wire brushing with angle grinders, lots of flying debris
[11:21:58] <_methods> a lot of times the grinder hits them in teh face after it rips their shirt to shreds to add insult to injury
[11:22:02] <enleth> the only thing I never do is put away a running grinder, always have something I can stop it on quickly. wears the disc a bit but it's convenient
[11:23:05] <CaptHindsight> I always angle grind with my shirt off in the sun just like on TV :)
[11:23:07] <_methods> or add injury to insult lol
[11:23:27] <malcom2073> ZATK: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But if you're starting from scratch with a new machine, I'd buy an old used PC rather than an arduino to run it.
[11:23:29] <_methods> hahahah old spice grinding
[11:23:43] <CaptHindsight> _methods: it can't catch your shirt if you're not wearing one
[11:23:46] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: On a horse? :)
[11:23:48] <_methods> hahahah
[11:24:17] <pcw_home> lair82: the tmax list after a real time error would help
[11:25:13] <lair82> this was, when I went out there to get this tmax list the machine was faulted
[11:25:14] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: people are doing actual machining with real production machines running flat out.
[11:25:31] <enleth> I have a Makita GA9020R and I prefer it even for precision cuts on very small pieces for the stability it provides
[11:25:37] <SpeedEvil> ZATK: Much fewer are doing the same with arduino based systems
[11:25:52] <ZATK> I have a flat out?
[11:26:03] <ZATK> sorry flat out?
[11:26:04] <malcom2073> flat out means as fast as possible
[11:26:23] <malcom2073> grbl will never run a machine as fast as linuxcnc can because of the style of motion control it uses
[11:26:55] <ZATK> X-Carve you can customize the system when buying
[11:27:35] <ZATK> I have not bought the system. I came here wondering if I should set it up with LinuxCNC
[11:27:36] <malcom2073> You're not going to be doing high speed production with that machine anyway, so grbl will probably be fine
[11:29:02] <ZATK> Well from what people are saying I should be able to get the best quality to speed ratio with LinuxCNC rather then arduino solution
[11:29:06] <pcw_home> lair82:OK so the servo thread tmax is about 0.5 ms so OK which means
[11:29:08] <pcw_home> its not running out of thread time but an actual dispatch real time delay
[11:29:16] <enleth> fun fact: once I had to modify a hardened steel reinforced door frame to accept a different lock layout and several people asked how long it took with a dremel when they saw the cuts
[11:29:42] <enleth> it was that 230mm makita
[11:29:53] <malcom2073> ZATK: Your limitation is not going to be your control software with that machine, it's going to be the machine itself
[11:31:40] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: I beg to differ. #duino software and firmware is buggy and supported mostly by people with personality disorders or lack of experience but lots of attitude
[11:32:12] <anomynous_> dont they sell used machining centers if you want a rigid machine cheap? ;D
[11:33:54] <enleth> CaptHindsight: I wouldn't go that far (except for the "IDE", the people behind that should be put up against the wall), but as long as you understand what the bundled libraries do, it's OK and cuts down on development time
[11:34:06] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc isn't completely issue free but at least you get sane responses and support along with tons or experience and insight to machine designs and machine control
[11:34:12] <enleth> *s/but//
[11:34:15] <CaptHindsight> of/of
[11:34:54] <CaptHindsight> enleth: LOL
[11:38:26] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: have you looked at the vcarve?
[11:38:33] <malcom2073> That's the least of his worries in terms of a precision machine heh
[11:39:13] <malcom2073> Heh, amusing that you would point out personality disorders, if you go by that same measure (the people on irc) then linuxcnc has them matched :P
[11:40:14] <enleth> by the way, there's supposedly someone from Mesa Electronics hangung out here, is that right?
[11:40:20] <enleth> *i
[11:40:29] <archivist> enleth, usually
[11:40:31] <malcom2073> That'd be pcw_home
[11:40:59] <enleth> ah, thanks
[11:41:32] <enleth> I'm seriously considering getting something of theirs for my bport retrofit
[11:43:04] <enleth> I'm tempted by the sheer coolness of the idea behind those boards and wouldn't mind mind overpaying a little compared to more conservative solutions
[11:43:05] <Erant> I'd recommend them. They're swamped right now with orders, so it might take 2-3 weeks for you to get your stuff though.
[11:43:19] <Roguish> enleth: u can't do any better than Mesa. they're tops.
[11:43:28] <enleth> people who do crazy weird things should support each other
[11:45:17] <Erant> I have a 5i25 with a 7i78 running my servos at ~800kHz step rate.
[11:45:28] <enleth> Erant: thankfully I'm not in a hurry, still getting used to the iron and so far the original control is sufficient
[11:46:46] <enleth> Erant: servos, step rate?
[11:48:45] <Magnifikus> yes i just milled linuxcnc text with my fpga stepgenerator :D (okay the motors are on the desk)
[11:49:08] <archivist> enleth, there are some step dir servo drives
[11:50:08] <enleth> ah, right
[11:50:24] <archivist> silly if you ask me :)
[11:50:32] <enleth> seconded
[11:50:42] <malcom2073> I have a set of elmos I was using like that heh
[11:51:37] <enleth> how well does linuxcnc work with a "pure" servo setup actually?
[11:51:53] <Erant> iirc, it was designed to work with that.
[11:52:13] <archivist> some use pwm and then 0-10v
[11:52:54] <pcw_home> LinuxCNC started with servo support (as EMC) step/dir support was added later
[11:53:01] <enleth> do any mesa cards include DACs for that?
[11:53:24] <pcw_home> many
[11:55:21] <enleth> pcw_home: ok, let me rephrase the question: I want to give you my money, I don't care how much and I'd like the most bang for the buck, preferably with integrated DACs and on PCI-e. what do I order?
[11:56:18] <FAalbers> Someone is giving away MONEY !! Woohoo !! :P
[11:56:22] <malcom2073> 6i25/7i77 combo
[11:57:36] <lair82_> pcw_home here is another tmax http://postimg.org/image/sva9771ad/
[11:58:56] <pcw_home> OK that one indicates the Ethernet read took too long
[12:00:51] <pcw_home> Thats either a Kernel issue (What kernel are you running?)
[12:00:53] <pcw_home> or a dropped packet issue (which is possible but unlikely with a short Ethernet cable unless its routed next to power wiring)
[12:04:21] <pcw_home> the read time of 5196900 is 1.624 ms which is crazy high
[12:04:58] <lair82> How do I tell which kernel?, and the cable is only 12" long, and I bought it pre-made, and it is a braided/foiled/shielded cable
[12:05:47] <pcw_home> the write time is also crazy high (and thats independent of any downstream errors)
[12:06:00] <pcw_home> uname -a
[12:06:26] <pcw_home> (to determine kernel version)
[12:09:11] <pcw_home> this is after about month on a test machine (slower than your H97):
[12:09:12] <pcw_home> 96045 hm2_7i76e.0.write.tmax
[12:10:18] <pcw_home> about same CPU clock so this represents about 30 usec maximum
[12:10:20] <pcw_home> your max write time is almost 300 usec!
[12:12:45] <lair82_> Linux greenmill 3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.2.68-1+deb7u6 i686 GNU/Linux
[12:13:42] <pcw_home> Yeah that may be too old to work well with the H97
[12:15:22] <lair82_> The ethernet cable routed next to 120vac solenoid control wiring, and all of the 24vdc IO wiring, but no 3PH power
[12:15:30] <lair82_> is routed
[12:16:40] <pcw_home> the long write time suggests a kernel issue (since thats unaffected by noise)
[12:17:20] <pcw_home> but in general the Ethernet cable should be routed away from any power signals
[12:20:22] <pcw_home> what IP address are you using for the 7i80?
[12:20:23] <pcw_home> (It should not be on the same subnet as your internet access)
[12:20:30] <lair82_>
[12:20:50] <FAalbers> Is there a better way in LinuxCNC to make the spindel go back home then to enter Gcode to go to Z0 and then Gcode to go to X0 Y0 ? Like , when you interrupt a tool job
[12:22:36] <FAalbers> Heh , just figured out linuxcnc is German :)
[12:22:56] <_methods> what?
[12:23:01] <archivist> FAalbers, er no
[12:23:04] <_methods> lol
[12:23:13] <_methods> apple made it
[12:23:29] <archivist> neva had any apple core in it
[12:24:58] <_methods> lies
[12:25:44] <pcw_home> I do vaguely recall that the stock Wheezy Preemt-rt kernel was not much good with newer hardware
[12:26:36] <pcw_home> all my testing has been done with newer kernels so that might be worth a try
[12:27:52] <lair82> How do I apply a new kernel?
[12:29:27] <pcw_home> I have a script here: http://freeby.mesanet.com/makert4.1.13
[12:30:45] <pcw_home> that makes the current latest preemt-rt kernel
[12:30:46] <pcw_home> you do need to set some options when it runs xconfig
[12:31:34] <maxcnc> hi is the logging page from austria Down ?
[12:31:50] <lair82> what options
[12:34:34] <pcw_home> under "Processor types and features" --> Preemption Model, you must select "Fully Preemtable Kernel (RT)"
[12:36:53] <pcw_home> also since you have a 32 bit system, dont check the 64 bit checkbox
[12:36:54] <pcw_home> To get running in the mean time you might slow the servo thread to 500 Hz
[12:36:56] <pcw_home> (2000000 ns) and see if you get acceptable performance (kernel building will take a while)
[12:37:33] <Magnifikus> hmm im running now rt-preempt (full) with isolcpus=3 but the realtime stuff wont go onto cpu3 by itself
[12:37:48] <Magnifikus> if i use taskset linuxcnc the gui also runs on cpu3
[12:37:53] <Magnifikus> any idea?
[12:38:22] <pcw_home> In my experience isolcpus normally just makes PreemtRT run slower/higher latency
[12:38:37] <Magnifikus> guess i will scrap the rpi2
[12:38:44] <Magnifikus> and just use the odroid c1 again
[12:38:51] <Magnifikus> that worked way better
[12:39:05] <Magnifikus> except the lan is not working with xenomai
[12:41:01] <lair82> It will be early next week before they are ready to make some test cuts, so I will start the kernel now
[12:47:08] <CaptHindsight> Magnifikus: how many cores are in the Rpi2?
[12:47:14] <Magnifikus> 4
[12:47:19] <Magnifikus> oc to 900mhz
[12:47:33] <Magnifikus> but the gpu is shit, or better they dont bother to provide a driver
[12:48:22] <CaptHindsight> the problems we constantly ran into with RTAI and other RT is that it's so rarely used that they devs ignore the rules for it
[12:49:00] <CaptHindsight> it's like running conduit or pipe across a dooorway vs around since nobody used that door or complained when they did
[12:49:06] <Magnifikus> yeah
[12:49:39] <CaptHindsight> then at a later date it's a problem but they are long gone
[12:49:46] <Magnifikus> will try xenomai :)
[12:50:04] <Magnifikus> but the spi stuff etc is working fine
[12:50:35] <Magnifikus> only bad thing is, i need todo 2 spi transactions, first get position and then set pulsewidth
[12:50:40] <CaptHindsight> Magnifikus: have you mentioned the issue to the ARM kernel devs
[12:50:45] <CaptHindsight> ?
[12:51:05] <Magnifikus> that rt task wont go to isolcpus?
[12:51:28] <CaptHindsight> I heard that they were going back over and cleaning up lots of the RT issues
[12:51:31] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[12:52:02] <CaptHindsight> it might not get fixed but at least it's made public that it's broken
[12:53:02] <Magnifikus> need to understand the problem first
[12:53:08] <CaptHindsight> probably doesn't matter much for a smartphone so priority is likely low
[12:54:09] <Magnifikus> hehe
[12:54:50] <Magnifikus> basicly i need to put all the stuff my stepgen is now doing into the fpga
[12:54:53] <lair82_> pcw_home was that it for selections in the xconfig?
[12:55:03] <Magnifikus> so i can just push cmd and get fb in per cycle
[12:55:42] <pcw_home> also make sure hpet is enabled
[12:58:18] <Magnifikus> ah arch_sys_counter
[12:58:23] <Magnifikus> that sounds bad
[12:58:41] <lair82_> where would hpet be in the drop downs
[13:00:35] <pcw_home> also in processor type and features (HPET Timer support)
[13:00:53] <lair82_> Its already selected, is that it?
[13:01:45] <pcw_home> probably
[13:02:06] <enleth> pcw_home: one more question, how hard is it to hook up weird vintage rotary encoders to the 7i77/6i25 combo? would I need another board? I don't remember the exact encoder type but I'm pretty sure it's a 9-pin connector
[13:02:17] <enleth> ground included
[13:02:52] <pcw_home> are they quadrature?
[13:04:05] <pcw_home> 9 pin is about right for quadrature (A+,A-,B+,B-,Z+.Z-,5V,GND,SHIELD)
[13:04:22] <enleth> wait, 8 wires, 2 thicker, 6 thinner.
[13:04:42] <enleth> which still looks like quardature
[13:04:47] <pcw_home> 5V power?
[13:05:00] <enleth> will have to check
[13:05:23] <lair82_> so just save the kernel config then continue with compiling?
[13:05:34] <enleth> (I dug up a photo of the encoder with cover off)
[13:06:20] <pcw_home> lair82_, yes save and continue (expect a hour or so of compiling)
[13:06:29] <enleth> https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport/img_5999.jpg not sure if that helps
[13:06:55] <enleth> should be 5V as the whole control is 5V CMOS system
[13:07:18] <lair82_> Ok, sounds good, do I close that after saving?
[13:07:20] <pcw_home> looks like a standard quadrature encoder (though not very high res)
[13:07:48] <pcw_home> maybe 256 lines (so 1024 counts/turn)
[13:08:24] <FAalbers> Ayone using Anything-IO FPGA cards ?
[13:08:43] <cradek> zillions of people use them with linuxcnc
[13:09:11] <FAalbers> cradek, That's for closed loop no ?
[13:09:39] <cradek> for lots of setups, but yes, often closed loop servo control with encoder/resolver feedback and analog servo amps
[13:10:46] <maxcnc> hi FAalbers
[13:14:04] <pcw_home> lair82_ yes close after saving
[13:14:48] <pcw_home> (otherwise the script will not continue)
[13:17:03] <FAalbers> hey maxcnc
[13:17:19] <FAalbers> It's funny that all that stuff is originating from Fanuc
[13:17:31] <FAalbers> I was working on those huge arm robots in the late 80's when they where all the hydraulic ones where beeing replaced by the Fanuc electric arm robots.
[13:17:40] <FAalbers> That was in the car factory
[13:18:29] <maxcnc> if its a Fanuc11 it is easy to convert as the output has all the need for a 7i77
[13:19:05] <FAalbers> Then in 94 I switched to doing Pro CG . Now I'm getting back into tangible :)
[13:19:49] <FAalbers> Seen enough on the screen , wanna touch it again ! :)
[13:20:58] <enleth> pcw_home: so if that's the case, can 7i77 handle three of those?
[13:24:52] <MikkoP> Hey, just wondering. I have stepper motor drivers that take 9-42 V in. However, my motor says 4,8 V voltage and 3 A. Problems here?
[13:25:40] <MattoMatic> whenever reprap was inventing new M codes, I suggested people check they weren't clashing with fanuc first. no chance they're up to M5xx and counting
[13:26:30] <JT-Shop> MikkoP: there is some info on the wiki about stepper voltages
[13:26:42] <maxcnc> MikkoP: no most steppers got 5V
[13:27:17] <maxcnc> MikkoP: you need min ddoble the volts of the Stepepr best is to go as high as the driver takes
[13:27:40] <MattoMatic> http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code sheesh, it's almost filled in up to M999
[13:27:43] <maxcnc> benefit better and faster movement longer cables and more tourche
[13:28:26] <MikkoP> But I'd still set the driver to 3A output?
[13:28:33] <maxcnc> yes
[13:28:41] <maxcnc> Stepeprs are Amp driven
[13:29:06] <MikkoP> So 42V and 3A with these then
[13:29:08] <maxcnc> MikkoP: make shure if RMS or peak
[13:29:24] <MikkoP> The driver output amperage?
[13:29:30] <maxcnc> yes
[13:29:39] <MattoMatic> yep, it's the current that limits the motor. the DC rating of a motor is just what ohms law will result in max current, if fed raw DC
[13:31:49] <MikkoP> The markings on the driver say that if set to 3.0A, PK (assuming that's for peak) current is 3.2A
[13:31:51] <maxcnc> MikkoP: and your powersource dont need 3A for etch motor a 40V 3A power sorce can drive 3Steppers
[13:32:08] <MattoMatic> chopper drivers use the extra voltage to overcome the inertia of the current in the coil, so there's still 3A flowing at any moment, but it can change direction quicker
[13:33:23] <MikkoP> I'm going to need quite beefy power supply
[13:33:40] <maxcnc> 36V 5A
[13:34:01] <maxcnc> thats what i woudt go for
[13:34:14] <MikkoP> I the lower voltage?
[13:34:25] <MattoMatic> yeah keep a bit of headroom for the voltage rating, especially with toshiba chips
[13:34:32] <maxcnc> MikkoP: where are you in the world
[13:34:52] <MattoMatic> the TB6560 weer 36V rated, but had a tendency to explode with shrapnel if you actually used 36V
[13:35:10] <maxcnc> is it a TB6560 china board
[13:35:15] <maxcnc> blue or red
[13:35:45] <MattoMatic> I think he's got the TB6600 I recommended
[13:36:01] <maxcnc> you might need to solder the 150pF into it
[13:36:04] <MattoMatic> which is a much better chip on paper
[13:36:11] <maxcnc> then the board works amasing well
[13:36:54] <CaptHindsight> did anyone that makes the TB6560 boards from China ever wise up and make the changes to the caps?
[13:37:21] <MattoMatic> I had 2 of the 4 axis. I can live with the noise, but the speed was brain-damaged. mostly by the chips but the stupid optos didn't help
[13:37:27] <maxcnc> i got a Elektronic freek here he is also getting this FR304 off and using Ultrafast diods its 2Euros more and the board is then the Ultrfast
[13:37:49] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: we do it all the time
[13:38:35] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: 10cents and its like a wonder
[13:38:46] <MikkoPel> Sorry, did you say something in the last couple of minutes? Windows and BSOD...
[13:39:09] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: I understand but I was wondering if any of the manufacturers sell boards with the better values for the caps
[13:39:33] <MattoMatic> I bypassed the optos on my boards. one was slightly improved (but not dramatically) and the other died on 2 axis and I couldn't figure why
[13:39:35] <CaptHindsight> sounds like it hasn't happened
[13:39:46] <maxcnc> they need this 1000pf for the inuse i think
[13:40:09] <maxcnc> as the epson steppers recomd that 100kHz
[13:40:20] <MikkoPel> So why 36V instead of 42V?
[13:40:20] <maxcnc> but we like the 400Khz better
[13:40:49] <maxcnc> MikkoPel: 36 is way above the 5Vx5 recomended
[13:40:58] <maxcnc> and its less then the board takes max
[13:42:09] <MikkoPel> So it's better not to run at max voltage?
[13:42:11] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: every Televison shop got this 1206 150pf as it is standard for all media
[13:42:19] <maxcnc> MikkoPel: yes
[13:42:34] <MikkoPel> Why's that? I'm a newbie :D
[13:42:37] <maxcnc> MikkoPel: where are you in the world
[13:42:55] <MattoMatic> mosfets go bang, and chinese electrolytics can't always run at their rated voltage
[13:43:15] <maxcnc> the max is alway s the limit and is not a good to go for long live
[13:43:15] <MattoMatic> especially the ones in $8 drivers :)
[13:43:16] <MikkoPel> Ah, the quality thing again. Thanks to eBay :D
[13:43:56] <MikkoPel> MottoMatic: hey, they were $8,98! :D
[13:44:29] <maxcnc> you shoudt have gone L297 L298 MikkoPel
[13:44:39] <maxcnc> its only 4USD on 3Axis
[13:44:39] <MattoMatic> I'm guessing they are cheaper than their spec implies mostly because Toshiba
[13:45:01] <maxcnc> and resoldering is easyer if fail
[13:45:17] <MattoMatic> but the TB6560 is shit even in the datasheet, and the TB6600 isn't. subtle diff
[13:45:18] <MikkoPel> maxcnc: I read somewhere that those are a little outdated and something. Not sure though. Now I have these TB6600 things
[13:46:00] <maxcnc> i got a mashine from 1984 and it still runs daily on the l297
[13:46:07] <MattoMatic> it's a shame the chips aren't pin compatible
[13:46:30] <maxcnc> it can make 1200mm/min
[13:47:01] <MikkoPel> Nice
[13:47:09] <MikkoPel> This is my first attempt to build one :D
[13:47:11] <MattoMatic> I got a Microline 92A that uses npn & pnp half-bridges :) I'm gonna extract them to make a 5 phase driver
[13:47:32] <maxcnc> the path engraver does its job on engraving the labels since first jear of shop
[13:47:32] <DaViruz> MattoMatic: converting a emco?
[13:48:06] <MattoMatic> ~1981 iirc, before epson 9 pin protocol became standard, or else I wouldn't have harvested it
[13:48:07] <MikkoPel> Am I going to burn down my house and all my electronics in my CNC with a $25 Chinese power supply?
[13:48:29] <MattoMatic> DaViruz emco use 5 phase?
[13:48:34] <DaViruz> yeah
[13:48:46] <MattoMatic> cool, never knew that
[13:48:54] <DaViruz> berger lahr
[13:49:02] <maxcnc> im off Gn8
[13:49:17] <MattoMatic> I have a few 5ph motors, but no drivers except some little 750mA ones
[13:49:37] <DaViruz> one stepper driver in one of my emcos is a little suspect
[13:49:47] <DaViruz> the motor "clicks" twice a second when stationary
[13:50:02] <MattoMatic> MikkoPel, always assume they might ignite, and keep the asbestos blanket tight :D
[13:50:10] <DaViruz> and a undervoltage led on the driver blinks very briefly each time
[13:50:18] <DaViruz> but it works fine
[13:50:32] <MikkoPel> Hah :D
[13:50:51] <DaViruz> ..and from what i understand emco wants about $2-3k to exchange it
[13:51:23] <MattoMatic> yowch. this is why I want to design my own.
[13:51:29] <MikkoPel> I'm not going to leave it running alone so no worries with the house burning but if it fries the electronics I'm sad
[13:52:17] <MattoMatic> naah it'd demand led usually. the motors kill the drivers, and the drivers kill the psu, and the psu kills your house supply
[13:53:25] <MikkoPel> I got good fuses :D
[13:53:28] <MattoMatic> I guess some psu might spew some mains volts up the output, in extreme circumstances
[13:53:54] <MattoMatic> like if you spill a pot of molten lead into it
[13:54:04] <MattoMatic> that can happen, in a fun workshop
[13:54:55] <DaViruz> i'm guessing it'll short the mains before it transfer it to the secondary
[13:55:10] <lair82_> pcw_home, what will i need to do after compiling to use the new kernel?
[13:55:43] <MikkoPel> There's some power supplies that meet those specs and have hundreds of sold units. If they were total shit I guess they wouldn't sell. Someone would rate it bad
[13:56:06] <MikkoPel> But I might ask some local shop for a better one. More expensive but atleast it's reliable
[13:56:30] <MattoMatic> at chinese prices, I think people are happy to accept 20% DOA rates, rather than ship it back
[13:56:43] <DaViruz> i've had pretty good luck with the higher power cheap chinese supplies
[13:57:04] <MattoMatic> that's me anyway. it hurts when you goof and destroy something expensive
[13:57:13] <DaViruz> i don't think i'd dare connect it to something expensive though
[13:57:18] <MattoMatic> it hurts less if it was $20 :)
[13:57:20] <MikkoPel> Yea they are really cheap so that's an advantage but...
[13:57:29] <MattoMatic> buy 2, keep a spare
[13:57:47] <MikkoPel> I don't worry about the psu but if it kills something in the other end I'm pissed
[13:58:17] <MattoMatic> that's v unlikely, especially if you allow a bit of headroom in voltage and current
[13:59:18] <MikkoPel> Probably. I'll still see what a local electronics store has to offer. If they charge a lot more then I order from eBay
[13:59:33] <MikkoPel> But I got to go now, see ya
[13:59:35] <MattoMatic> I have a mobo that when it hit 80C was supposed to turn off, but what it does is short the psu, and somehow kill all the hdd. that was brutal
[13:59:54] <MikkoPel> Ouch, hope you had backup :D
[14:00:08] <MattoMatic> all the hdd :(
[14:00:11] <gonzo_nb> the failure modes depend on how the psu is designed
[14:00:16] <MattoMatic> that WAS my backup
[14:00:33] <MikkoPel> :( Offsite
[14:00:46] <MattoMatic> yeah I've learned now
[14:01:07] <gonzo_nb> if it's an isolating switcher, then worst case is an overvolt. but how much of an overvolt depends on the transformer
[14:01:09] <MattoMatic> still in the same room, but backup is unpowered
[14:01:20] <MattoMatic> except when in use
[14:01:23] <MikkoPel> All my backups are in the same building but on different computers in different parts of the house. Covers the data if one machine fails but not if the house burns
[14:02:02] <MikkoPel> I tried to find a good backup service but they don't seem to work on Ubuntu, especially when I don't have GUI
[14:03:02] <MikkoPel> But yea, bye!
[14:05:29] <MattoMatic> DaViruz you can get 2nd hand Vexta 5ph drivers for ~$100
[14:05:51] <DaViruz> i've heard about that, but not really looked into it
[14:06:04] <MattoMatic> that's still too much for me, but it sure beats $2k
[14:06:16] <DaViruz> the emco ones fit very nicely into a rack, i'd like to keep it that way
[14:06:34] <DaViruz> (not enough that i'll pay $2k though)
[14:08:10] <MattoMatic> I had a whacko scheme to make a 9 phase spindle motor that could do high speed and fine positioning, but I'll see what I can do with 5ph first :)
[14:09:10] <MattoMatic> I forget how many steps per rotation it worked out at. it was more than 500
[14:09:58] <MattoMatic> 5ph can get to 3000rpm. that'd be enough for a little lathe
[14:11:42] <DaViruz> oh, you're using it for the spindle?
[14:12:25] <MattoMatic> it's emco's little yellow lathe's opto encoder wheel that's given me a better strategy for spindle coordination
[14:13:28] <MattoMatic> that's good enough for threading, and I'd change to a toothed pulley when using it as an indexer
[14:14:16] <DaViruz> my emco machines has 5ph steppers for axis motors
[14:14:23] <DaViruz> brushed dc for spindles
[14:14:58] <MattoMatic> stepper motor on a spindle would be annoying noise
[14:15:33] <MattoMatic> I got a low rumble ancient GE 1/3hp atm, and that's fine
[14:17:51] <enleth> what about a stepper on the same shaft, but running unpowered most of the time?
[14:18:01] <enleth> shouldn't wear out in any way
[14:18:16] <MattoMatic> as an encoder?
[14:18:22] <enleth> as a positioner
[14:18:31] <MattoMatic> could be both :)
[14:19:05] <enleth> I guess so, yes
[14:19:30] <MattoMatic> the toothed belt permanently engaged, running at high speed, would wear out quickly I think
[14:19:32] <enleth> but even just for driving the spindle as a dividing head
[14:19:35] <DaViruz> enleth: hm, that's an interesting thought
[14:19:58] <MattoMatic> but direcly on the shaft, or via a gear, might work nice
[14:20:03] <enleth> there are also hollow shaft steppers
[14:20:24] <MattoMatic> none hollow enough for a morse taper unfortanatly :)
[14:20:29] <enleth> Nanotec makes them to order, they could definitely make a hollow shaft one that just extends the spindle
[14:20:39] <MattoMatic> otherwise it'd be instant spindle
[14:20:55] <enleth> MattoMatic: wouldn't be so sure, those guys can do a lot of things
[14:21:22] <enleth> Although the endplates of their motors probably wouldn't be able to support so much side loads on the bearings
[14:21:38] <MattoMatic> I'll scratchbuild that motor myself, when I have the skills of a master like andypugh
[14:22:07] <MattoMatic> laser the laminae, and use crankshaft bearings
[14:22:20] <enleth> But getting a hollow shaft motor with the same ID as spindle bore and attaching it at the outer end of the spindle could be an interesting project
[14:22:54] <MattoMatic> yeah that's v doable here. my bore is 1/2"
[14:22:54] <malcom2073> MattoMatic: You see the homemade 45kw brushless motor?
[14:23:10] <malcom2073> guy laser cut the plates, wound the coils himself
[14:23:11] <enleth> So it would be belt driven as a spindle and direct driven as a dividing head
[14:23:40] <MattoMatic> malcom2073, the ebike motor? I've seen those
[14:23:54] <malcom2073> I think he was building it for an electric car
[14:24:22] <malcom2073> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vjWmRNo6s0
[14:24:37] <enleth> couldn't he at least contract the winding out to a local shop?
[14:25:00] <enleth> it would still qualify as a self made motor IMO, as long as the winding design was his
[14:25:01] <malcom2073> he's got some videos of the build process
[14:25:47] <MattoMatic> winding would be an evening's patient work I guess. the wires are quite thick
[14:26:06] <malcom2073> MattoMatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LNfDI3QUpQ
[14:26:10] <malcom2073> Look at his windings
[14:26:13] <malcom2073> Heh
[14:26:31] <malcom2073> at around 0:24
[14:28:07] <MattoMatic> I saw a chinese motor factory where they make the coils loose, then string them and varnish into a loom, then press the whole lot into the stator
[14:29:46] <enleth> jeez, the guy reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/user/Photonvids with those loose wires and shit on an ugly carpet
[14:30:08] <enleth> ugly and definitely flammable
[14:30:16] <MattoMatic> photonic induction :) yeah you can smell the burnt nylon
[14:30:31] <MattoMatic> and lager
[14:31:28] <MattoMatic> gotta love him
[14:32:46] <MattoMatic> when he dims his neighbourhood :D
[14:32:59] <enleth> yeah, but I hope he builds his next house in a better style
[14:33:03] <MattoMatic> and puts the camera out of the window to prove it
[14:33:59] <enleth> I mean, he *will* build a next house at some point, there's no way he doesn't get to burn down at least one in his whole life
[14:34:03] <MattoMatic> yeah he needs something sturdier than a crappy modern house
[14:34:36] <enleth> I sure hope his insurance would pay anything when he does
[14:36:01] <MattoMatic> I think he's self certified. he shows his thick binder full of paperwork and risk assessments. he's highly qualified
[14:36:04] <lair82> pcw_home looks like it is running under the new kernel, ok, at the moment. One question though, how do I get my wireless NIC to work again?
[14:36:43] <MattoMatic> when insurance is assessed properly, it costs more than simply keeping an emergency fund
[14:37:22] <MattoMatic> I tell momma to spend 10% of what she spends buying actual fire extinguishers and stuff
[14:37:46] <MattoMatic> if her house burns, she won't collect. there's only wooden stairs
[14:39:53] <MattoMatic> you could buy a fair amount of ceramic blanket for what she spends on insurance each year
[14:40:10] <MattoMatic> but hey, she has piece of mind
[14:40:39] <MattoMatic> piece/peace
[14:41:04] <MattoMatic> freudian
[14:44:00] <HSM> hi
[14:45:33] <HSM> I have had so much fails and errors in pncconf @ 2.7.3
[14:46:16] <HSM> The first error was the encoder scale which was everytime calculated to 500000000000
[14:47:04] <HSM> but i have a 4095 encoder that means 4095*4 = Encoder scale
[14:47:36] <HSM> does someone had the same experience with pncconf?
[14:48:34] <HSM> there are so much fails in pncconf that I decided to use just the ini and hal file
[14:51:31] <MattoMatic> are you sure 4095 not 4096 aka 4k?
[14:52:03] <MattoMatic> 0 to 4095
[14:54:51] <MattoMatic> if you say 4095, it'll expect 0 to 4094 and might freak when it gets 4095
[14:55:56] <MattoMatic> unlikely, but that's my only idea. I'm still running 2.4 and have nfi about pncconf :)
[14:56:49] <HSM> pncconf make mistakes with every encoder scale in the encoder scale calculator
[14:57:36] <HSM> i will start a topic with all errors i detect
[14:58:06] <MattoMatic> muy bueno
[15:00:47] * MattoMatic ouve a Cesária
[15:09:03] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/uaxceivlguogrof/2015-12-04%2011.41.37.mp4?dl=0
[15:09:12] <_methods> hehe big auger turning today
[15:10:24] <malcom2073> _methods: Nice!
[15:10:31] <HSM> nice!
[15:10:47] <_methods> had to rework the bearing journals
[15:14:38] <JT-Shop> yea my water bottle holders are arriving today
[15:18:28] <Tom_itx> for the trike?
[15:19:25] <Tom_itx> err.. mountain bike
[15:19:48] <JT-Shop> new road bike
[15:20:03] <JT-Shop> new to me and almost new, guy rode it twice lol
[15:35:40] <tiwake> stupid
[15:36:02] <tiwake> BTW, turning a 4 flute endmill into a 2 flute does not work so well
[15:55:04] <jdh> I have King Titanium bottle cages on my road bikes
[15:55:14] <jdh> they are uber-sexy
[15:58:14] <FAalbers> Ever tried this material for CNC ? Supposed to be very easy to machine and strong ... http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/cut_to_size_plastic/king_starboard/526
[15:59:47] <jdh> I use starboard for lots of stuff. cuts well
[16:00:34] <jdh> https://goo.gl/photos/Atuy8WjWda9tvvJq9
[16:00:46] <jdh> part on the right is 0.25" starboard
[16:07:02] <FAalbers> jdh, Thanks for the feedback ! :)
[16:08:12] <FAalbers> jdh, I thought it might be good for prototyping
[16:08:28] <jdh> that's what that part was.
[16:08:58] <jdh> I have lots of starboard laying around for boat stuff though.
[16:23:03] <FAalbers> nice
[16:23:24] <FAalbers> Gonna check Home Depot see if they have it
[16:25:06] <FAalbers> jdh, btw , what spindle speed and feed rate you use ?
[16:25:34] <FAalbers> jdh, On HDPE that is
[16:36:15] <Deejay> gn8
[16:39:33] <XXCoder> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1836573872/pixel-vision-the-handmade-portable-game-system
[16:39:42] <XXCoder> gaming system made by Flash
[16:39:43] <XXCoder> heh
[16:39:58] <XXCoder> seriously I dont really get the handcrafted fad lately
[16:40:07] <XXCoder> hipster maybe
[16:41:45] <XXCoder> looks cool anyway
[16:45:04] <andypugh> He might get more backers if he gave Krone to Euro/dollar equivalents. I don’t have any idea how much 4000kr is, and I have actually used krone. In fact I probably have some in a drawer somewhere.
[16:45:24] <andypugh> I got my big servo motor running today :-)
[16:45:34] <XXCoder> andypugh: uh there is krone to usd on site
[16:45:42] <XXCoder> though it may appear only when logged in
[16:46:03] <XXCoder> its very expeive lol basic one is $495 usd
[16:46:28] <FloppyDisk> @andypugh: My page was listed in Kr and showed USD. kr10 = 'about $1usd, kr4000= abou $461usd
[16:46:32] <jdh> something like 18krpm, 30-40ipm, .125
[16:46:35] <andypugh> It turns out that I can net resolver.00.angle directly to 8i20.0.0.angle. No configuration needed at all, as the resolver is aligned to the poles, and is a 2-turn resolver.
[16:47:04] <XXCoder> misremembered prices heh but yeah expensive
[16:47:44] <andypugh> I also scored a new servo for my rotary table at a bargain price: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121823242788?nma=true&si=KwulmQE9GOUAokJXVsGWo2ZRHeY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
[16:49:30] <Erant> Woah, nice.
[16:50:28] <Erant> FAalbers: I've used 3k rpm, 30-40ipm, 3/8" end mill with .4" of DOC and full WOC.
[16:51:08] <Erant> I could probably go full WOC, full DOC (Which is like 5/8") on it at maybe 3.5k RPM.
[16:52:48] <Erant> FAalbers: And that was starboard from TAP (I have one around the corner, and they have lots of cheap cheap scraps)
[16:53:15] <FAalbers> Erant, Lucky you ! :) Thanks for the info !
[16:53:51] <FloppyDisk> .99 lbs... What!? that's robbery:-)
[16:54:13] <Erant> And this is on my micro mill, so anything more rigid and it's just straight balls-to-the-wall, full WOC, full DOC, pretty much as fast as you can go.
[16:54:54] <Erant> Just gotta keep an eye out for max chipload, and narrow slots. Chip excavation wasn't great on this 1/8" endmill I was using for 2D contours.
[16:55:17] <Erant> But that was no coolant, no vacuum, so ymmv.
[16:59:30] <FAalbers> I'm still a nube , but Full WOC (With of Cut) , what does that mean ? isn't the WOC the end mill diameter ??
[17:00:11] <FAalbers> Do make it wider to have the chips not clutter up maybe ?
[17:01:08] <andypugh> If you can avoid full-width cuts you normally do
[17:01:22] <FAalbers> And when you say full DOC , how much is that on 3/8" end mill ?
[17:02:24] <jdh> if you are cutting an internal feature, at least the first pass will be full WOC
[17:03:59] <jdh> I usually only do max 1 diameter DOC to clear chips.
[17:16:23] <andypugh> I am getting annoyed by the begging header on Wikipedia.
[17:17:20] <andypugh> jdh: You can spiral-in at less than full WOC
[17:21:11] <FAalbers> Heh , I'm gonna do some reading up on WOC and DOC :)
[17:21:42] <FAalbers> So much to learn ... love it
[17:52:52] <JT-Shop> now warning lights are flashing down at quality control
[17:53:08] <JT-Shop> industrial disease
[17:57:30] <jdh> somebody through a spanner
[17:57:36] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:09:57] <andypugh> I wonder what Betty Davis Knees are?
[18:10:07] <jdh> never understood that part
[18:11:16] <jdh> I always assumed it was some brit'ism I didn't get.
[18:24:48] <ChuangTzu_> The 'Bette Davis knees' line has been subject to various interpretations. It may be related to an English joke.[
[18:26:02] <andypugh> I think it is a mythical disease based on “Bette Davis Eyes”
[19:45:40] <zeeshan-laptop> pcw when is the mesa 7i77 and 5i25 going to be avail!
[19:45:41] <zeeshan-laptop> i needs
[19:46:53] <XXCoder> oh thats easy zeeshan-laptop
[19:46:57] <XXCoder> as soon as you dont need it
[19:48:13] <PetefromTn_> I got some ;)
[19:48:32] <Tom_itx> get spares.. then you'll have em
[19:49:58] <zeeshan-laptop> are yor names pcw
[19:50:03] <zeeshan-laptop> :-)
[19:50:11] <Tom_itx> was i talking to you?
[19:50:13] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[19:50:18] <Tom_itx> ?
[19:50:22] <zeeshan-laptop> ?!!
[19:50:25] <PetefromTn_> well my name's Pete anyway
[19:50:31] <zeeshan-laptop> uncle pete
[19:51:06] <Tom_itx> uncle zeee has a better ring to it
[19:51:08] <zeeshan-laptop> uncle thomas
[19:51:27] <zeeshan-laptop> i got my kiln running
[19:51:33] <zeeshan-laptop> too bad im stuck @ the lab
[19:51:38] <zeeshan-laptop> i want to go home and melt some aluminum
[19:51:53] <Tom_itx> i think i'm gonna learn catia
[19:52:00] <zeeshan-laptop> do it!
[19:52:03] <Tom_itx> i am
[19:52:21] <Tom_itx> they don't offer SW
[19:52:25] <Tom_itx> i was kinda sad
[19:52:35] <zeeshan-laptop> why are you learning it anyway
[19:52:37] <zeeshan-laptop> for fun?
[19:52:42] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/jFJYaAM.jpg ;)
[19:52:45] <Tom_itx> they use it and they use mastercam but don't have any specific class for either
[19:52:50] <Tom_itx> for fun
[19:52:59] <zeeshan-laptop> nice pete
[19:53:01] <Tom_itx> my kid is learning it
[19:53:14] <Tom_itx> he'll be a semester ahead of me
[19:54:08] <Tom_itx> i can say it's not as easy (user friendly) to use as SW
[19:54:42] <andypugh> I feel I should try SW, NX and Catia, just to know which I like best
[19:54:57] <Tom_itx> that's more or less what i'm doing
[19:55:07] <zeeshan-laptop> sw win
[19:55:15] <Tom_itx> i agree so far
[19:55:15] <zeeshan-laptop> i really like inventor
[19:55:19] <zeeshan-laptop> too bad its so unstable
[19:55:24] <zeeshan-laptop> makes it a big pos
[19:55:29] <zeeshan-laptop> and cant handle big assembly
[19:55:40] <Tom_itx> the course includes acad
[19:55:45] <zeeshan-laptop> ew
[19:55:49] <Tom_itx> i may drop out before i get to that
[19:55:52] <zeeshan-laptop> hahaha
[19:55:55] <zeeshan-laptop> good idea :P
[19:56:03] <zeeshan-laptop> no need to learn an ancient software
[19:56:11] <zeeshan-laptop> unless youre doing electrical schematics or something
[19:56:14] <andypugh> But, after 10 years of Inventor, 2 of them 8 hours a day paid, it’s hard to be objective
[19:56:31] <Tom_itx> they suggested i take it first and i told them to take a hike on that idea
[19:56:59] <Tom_itx> fusion 360 is an alternative
[19:57:09] <Tom_itx> never looked at inventor
[19:58:16] <zeeshan-laptop> andypugh: are you a ilogic master
[19:58:44] <zeeshan-laptop> my friend was complaining how solidworks
[19:58:48] <zeeshan-laptop> cant remember the history for dimensions
[19:59:01] <zeeshan-laptop> like in inventor if you type = 4+2+ 2/3
[19:59:04] <zeeshan-laptop> itll remember those
[19:59:09] <zeeshan-laptop> solidworks collapses them into one value
[19:59:27] <zeeshan-laptop> then im like try putting = in front of the numbers
[19:59:31] <zeeshan-laptop> and he was blown away
[19:59:44] <zeeshan-laptop> my point is, i think most cad software are similar, if not the same now
[19:59:56] <zeeshan-laptop> just need to learn em inside out
[20:00:01] <XXCoder> anyone ever used this http://www.symscape.com/product/professional
[20:00:07] <zeeshan-laptop> and do work arounds if needed
[20:02:39] <Tom_itx> they are all similar
[20:03:11] <Tom_itx> unless i haven't figured it out yet, you have to make a new sketch for every extrude you do though
[20:03:21] <Tom_itx> i like the contour select in sw for that
[20:03:51] <Tom_itx> ie if you have 2 pockets at different depths, that's 2 sketches
[20:04:19] <Tom_itx> it still shows it's unix roots
[20:05:55] <zeeshan-laptop> for complex extrudes, i will use combine
[20:06:00] <zeeshan-laptop> ill draw 2 bodies
[20:06:08] <zeeshan-laptop> and subtract em basically
[20:06:47] <zeeshan-laptop> usually if youve got multiple depths, it might be better to draw in side view
[20:06:52] <zeeshan-laptop> if you want the # of steps to be down
[20:09:08] <Tom_itx> it just seems like it takes longer in catia than sw to do the same thing
[20:09:29] <zeeshan-laptop> lack of exp
[20:09:30] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[20:09:41] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure about that
[20:10:08] <Tom_itx> catia is more powerful
[20:10:46] <Tom_itx> from what i hear it has cam in it now
[20:16:51] <zeeshan-laptop> youre a cam
[20:17:04] <XXCoder> web cam for cam
[20:17:09] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[20:17:16] <zeeshan-laptop> man im regretting not buying the pull studs i came across
[20:17:24] <zeeshan-laptop> now i gotta pay retail
[20:18:01] <Tom_itx> if you had a lathe you could make some
[20:18:52] <XXCoder> get a turret lathe heh
[20:18:54] <Tom_itx> it wouldn't be that hard would it?
[20:19:16] <zeeshan-laptop> i have a design for it
[20:19:27] <zeeshan-laptop> need some 8620 and a lathe :)
[20:19:30] <t12> whats the purpose of handedness in cutoff blades on a lathe
[20:19:50] <zeeshan-laptop> t12 some pieces you can approach from lh side only
[20:20:01] <t12> i mean on insert style
[20:20:03] <Tom_itx> purpose built
[20:20:06] <zeeshan-laptop> oh
[20:20:08] <t12> like when you're plunging to part
[20:20:22] <zeeshan-laptop> the if its got an angle to the right
[20:20:32] <zeeshan-laptop> itll leave a nib on the left
[20:20:45] <t12> ahh its which side gets the nib
[20:21:05] <t12> thnx
[20:21:10] <Tom_itx> if you've got a sharp blade and on center it will be very minimal
[20:21:23] <zeeshan-laptop> im a sharp blade
[20:21:23] <t12> the kennametal catalog is sure huge
[20:21:39] <Tom_itx> you're not a nib?
[20:21:48] <zeeshan-laptop> only on halloween
[20:22:00] <t12> https://www.instagram.com/p/-3VfZQACsp/
[20:22:03] <t12> https://www.instagram.com/p/-3VkQsACsy/
[20:22:06] <t12> i successfully made thinger
[20:22:10] <t12> threading worked
[20:22:14] <t12> sometimes things work i guess
[20:22:19] <zeeshan-laptop> looks nice
[20:22:34] <zeeshan-laptop> steel?
[20:22:44] <t12> yeah 12l14
[20:22:46] <t12> ezmode steel
[20:23:10] <Tom_itx> what are they for?
[20:23:11] <zeeshan-laptop> delicious lead
[20:23:24] <t12> messing around
[20:23:35] <t12> i found a silver snuffbox in london that was made 1890 ish
[20:23:39] <t12> and wanted to duplicate it
[20:23:46] <t12> i liked that it threaded to a nearly invisible seal
[20:24:06] <andypugh> zeeshan-laptop: (and anyone else) I have found that a real tip in Inventor is to decide if your new thing is part of your last thing or a new solid that you will combine later. Any part can contain many solids.
[20:24:56] <zeeshan-laptop> if new part is part of last thing
[20:25:00] <zeeshan-laptop> i will use derieve
[20:25:26] <zeeshan-laptop> we have variations of covers
[20:25:35] <zeeshan-laptop> i use it a lot there
[20:25:47] <andypugh> t12: every day I look at my tool release cylinder. I look at it and think “I wish I put a radius on that”
[20:26:23] <andypugh> zeeshan-laptop: Not quite the same thing, considr multi-solid parts
[20:26:32] <t12> yeah i gotta get together some radius tooling
[20:26:41] <zeeshan-laptop> so youre saying
[20:26:43] <zeeshan-laptop> a block of steel
[20:26:48] <zeeshan-laptop> and a hammer head inside it
[20:26:49] <andypugh> t12: Eh? This is a CNC world
[20:27:00] <t12> i'm a poser no cnc's at home
[20:27:01] <zeeshan-laptop> use combine to get the negative of the hammer into the block of steel
[20:27:12] <t12> maybe eventually
[20:27:14] <andypugh> I just select the radius tab
[20:27:29] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[20:27:36] <t12> i think i'm gonna slate the taig for guilloche
[20:27:39] <t12> that will be the cnc
[20:29:13] <t12> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku7XRg5p3KU dang this guy diy'd it
[20:31:31] <andypugh> t12: Have you seen Dewey’s work?
[20:31:45] <t12> negative?
[20:32:11] <andypugh> http://www.deweygarrett.com
[20:33:13] <andypugh> He’s a LinuxCNC dev who ,skes lovely stuff
[20:33:20] <andypugh> )makes)
[20:33:28] <t12> oh nice
[20:33:30] <t12> watching youtube
[20:33:35] <t12> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2BBjQopArE
[20:33:58] <Tom_itx> nice stuff there
[20:42:09] <XXCoder> just read about woodshop guy who got allegric to wood
[20:42:11] <XXCoder> dang
[20:42:28] <XXCoder> he had to buy and modify miliary grade gasmask so he could keep working on wood
[20:43:25] <XXCoder> http://steampunkworkshop.com/respirator.shtml/
[20:43:42] <PetefromTn_> that is not unusual at all. I worked with quite a few guys who were allergic to one particular wood or another. I am kinda allergic to white mahogany myself.
[20:46:24] <XXCoder> interesting
[20:50:35] <t12> happens in science too
[20:50:49] <t12> people who do work with chickens alot get alergic to eggs
[20:50:58] <t12> i sorta developed sensitivity to photographic fixer
[20:51:12] <XXCoder> interesting. I wonder why
[20:52:38] <andypugh> I scoff at allergies, until it’s me.
[20:53:57] <andypugh> But I got properly miserable in the same room as my sister’s super-cute rabbit
[20:54:16] <XXCoder> citrus allegy isnt fun lol
[20:54:26] <XXCoder> luckly in my case it is very minor one'
[20:54:32] <XXCoder> makes me have headaches
[20:57:33] <andypugh> And I know that eating prawns or kiwi fruit means horrible stomach pains and puking. Preferably the puking comes soon, ‘cos the stomach pains are horrible, but a miss-spent youth means that I am kind of happy to puke :-)
[21:02:00] <XXCoder> fun