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[00:19:58] <archivist> spot the tyop Magnetic gears can achieved with efficiency >99% at full load
[00:29:37] <archivist> if they dont proof read their website, does that mean they dont test the claims too :)
[01:16:14] <trentster> howdy all
[01:17:48] <trentster> The table my cnc machine is currently on, although quite sturdy shudders violently during fast moves (accel
[01:18:57] <trentster> I need some advice if I should build a sturdy workbench for it out of 2 by fours with side support, or should I be looking for a used steel welding table etc?
[01:19:18] <trentster> I know the best bet would be to weld up a dedicated table, but I dont know how to weld.
[01:19:22] <trentster> Advice?
[01:20:46] <mrsun__> my thought is use what you can get hold of or build =)
[01:21:26] <mrsun__> i have the same problem but its my floor in the shop that moves with the accelerations and stops of the machine :P
[01:21:40] <trentster> hmmm - its a pain.
[01:22:23] <trentster> I am still struggling to visualize how the base movements would effect the cuts - which still seem fine even with the shuddering
[01:22:24] <mrsun__> been thinking of casting a concrete slab on the floor to anchor the machine on just to give it a huge mass that it cant move :P
[01:22:35] <archivist> add 45 degree strengthening to the legs
[01:24:09] <trentster> archivist: yeah I thought about that - but I can not come up with a solution that works, the current table has pretty thick round steel pillars about 4 inches in diameter
[01:24:16] <archivist> a standard table has no shear members
[01:24:24] <trentster> Would have to devise some type of clamping system to do that
[01:24:46] <archivist> drill through, threaded rod
[01:25:19] <archivist> or attach brackets and threaded rod
[01:25:44] <mrsun__> you realy like your threaded rods :P
[01:25:47] <trentster> this table is actually steel frame on the top and each leg pillar screws into the frame
[01:26:14] <trentster> so its pretty solid, I reckon if i stabilise the legs will be good.
[01:26:37] <trentster> archivist: what about movement between each lond side span
[01:26:41] <trentster> *long
[01:26:55] <trentster> also threaded rod under tension?
[01:27:09] <archivist> I add shear members in wood to wooden tables!
[01:27:59] <trentster> I have a lot of 10 series spare aluminium extrusion, pretty long pieces, I could probably use that somehow
[01:31:00] <trentster> archivist: On my VFD, when I am manually controlling it via the panel fwd turns the spindle counter clockwise and rev turns it clockwise
[01:31:27] <trentster> This is incorrect right? do you think I could have a pin the wrong way round?
[01:32:12] <archivist> just swap two of the three wires to the motor
[01:33:19] <trentster> you sure it can't damage it?
[01:33:36] <trentster> if I randomly swap 2 of them around?
[01:34:34] <mrsun__> just dont swap it with the earth wire :P
[01:34:55] <mrsun__> a three phase motor you just swap two phases to make it turn the other way
[01:34:59] <trentster> mrsun__: heh yeah - I know enough to leave the earth alone ;-)
[01:35:11] <mrsun__> :P
[01:35:11] <trentster> cool thanks
[01:35:56] <mrsun__> never know so better say it before something ba dhappends :P
[01:36:28] <trentster> yes, I dont like magic smoke :P
[01:36:47] <mrsun__> a motor contains alot of magic smoke, so does wires
[01:37:10] <trentster> yup, hopefully its potential magic smoke, never to be relized
[01:37:17] <trentster> *realised
[01:37:24] <archivist> I had to empty a fire extinguisher on one motor :)
[01:37:38] <trentster> wow!
[01:37:48] <trentster> you must be using big machinery
[01:38:08] <trentster> *mental not to self - get a fire extinguisher for garage/shop
[01:38:26] <archivist> motors are one of the most reliable machines made, just need to replace the bearings now and again
[01:39:08] <archivist> was a little 1/2 hp 3 phase iirc, about 40 years ago
[01:39:40] <mrsun__> doctor ?
[02:09:05] <Deejay> moin
[02:09:21] <CaptHindsight> was just playing with some *duino motion control on Windows, I feel like it belongs to a 8th grade science fair project
[02:20:37] <enleth> trentster: do you have a CO2 welding tank?
[02:20:56] <trentster> enleth: nope I wish
[02:21:11] <trentster> I dont know how to weld, but would love to learn one day
[02:21:55] <trentster> CaptHindsight: what did you find the arduino shortfalls to be?
[02:22:05] <enleth> trentster: well if you had more than one of those, keeping a fire extinguisher valve hose on one of them at all times is a good idea. That's just a CO2 extinguisher then.
[02:22:13] <archivist> all of the possible shortfalls
[02:22:13] <enleth> *vavle and hose
[02:23:50] <trentster> archivist: CaptHindsight I guess the real question is where did it fall short in expectations ie: what did the $4 piece of kit fail to deliver in terms of expectations :P
[02:24:03] <enleth> not certified, so keeping a dry chemical one too is good if someone decides to send OHSA your way, but in case anything starts dispensing the magic smoke, you'd use the CO2 tank first to avoid the mess
[02:24:31] <archivist> powder is really messy :)
[02:25:11] <archivist> effin hard work cleaning a black car interior after one has been used
[02:25:37] <enleth> or - if you can afford it - get a FE-36 extinguisher
[02:26:08] <trentster> so bucket of water under the table on standby is a no no then ? P
[02:26:08] <enleth> that's the modern replacement for halon 1211
[02:26:24] <enleth> trentster: bucket of sand would be more like it
[02:26:41] <enleth> will work, most of the time
[02:27:12] <enleth> but getting sand into the machinery is probably even worse than the dry chemical extinguisher powder
[02:27:29] <enleth> at least the powder is not abrasive
[02:27:36] <trentster> he he yup.
[02:27:53] <enleth> but a bucket of sand by the welding table is OK
[02:28:25] <enleth> you can always drop something small that is ablaze into the bucket and push it under the sand with a stick
[02:32:09] <trentster> The most likely thing I will encounter is a fire in the plywood router bed itself.
[02:32:20] <trentster> since I dont weld anything
[02:34:51] <enleth> trentster: so you really want at least a CO2 extinguisher, and ideally an FE-36 one
[02:35:45] <enleth> trentster: the latter is expensive, but it doesn't try to cool everything to -71C, freezing, twisting and shattering it in the process
[02:35:51] <fenn> baking soda is also a cheap substitute for a dry chemical extinguisher
[02:36:43] <enleth> trentster: they use FE-36 extinguishers with laser equipment, where a stream of expanding CO2 getting in contact with the huge, hot glass laser tube would shatter it instantly
[02:36:45] <Crom> some extinguishers use baking soda for media
[02:39:14] <trentster> Halon suppression system and a gas mask will also work (if I get to the mask in time) ;-)
[02:39:33] <fenn> it's the lack of oxygen that kills you
[02:39:42] <fenn> so you need something like scba
[02:39:57] <trentster> scuba gear
[02:41:09] <enleth> fenn: in the case of halon, it's not just the lack of oxygen
[02:41:26] <fenn> once a lady locked herself in a bank vault on accident, so she started pressing buttons. one of them was the halon system...
[02:42:02] <enleth> fenn: too much of it will interfere with the oxidation processes in the body on a chemical level
[02:42:16] <archivist> she dead
[02:43:31] <enleth> archivist: well, in data centers that use halon fire suppression systems, you are usually required to take an oxygen mask with you whenever you enter the server floor, and that's both for supplying oxygen *and* keeping halon out of your lungs
[02:44:57] <enleth> and still, if you hear the fire alarm, you drop anything you were doing no matter how important and just run for the door, those systems usually have something like 10-15 second delay to accomodate idiots who failed to take a mask with them
[02:45:29] <archivist> which reminds me of stupid ISP, waiting for an IP change at some random time today
[02:45:29] <enleth> so yeah, she dead for sure
[02:47:20] <trentster> its also damn expensive to refill and reset halon suppression system after its been activated - $35-60K at least thats according to the datacenter where we have our racks.
[02:47:59] <trentster> Got a huge lecture when we did the induction tour where they stressed dont push the Halon accidentally unless you are 100% sure the server room is burning down
[02:48:52] <trentster> enleth: Sounds like a script from a super hero movie - She got stuck in a vault, and later emerged as "Halon Woman" with super-powers ;-)
[02:55:13] <fenn> the ability to stay still for extended periods
[03:13:47] <trentster> haha
[04:47:44] <XXCoder> enleth: BOFH lol
[04:48:07] <archivist> other self timed out, IP address change.......
[04:52:59] <XXCoder> aw not twins anymore
[04:59:13] <archivist> other bos is responding to pings
[05:00:50] <XXCoder> yay twins again lol
[05:02:00] <archivist> and the box is serving the website already
[05:02:54] <archivist> just have one DNS server yo go and kick into submission
[05:02:59] <archivist> to go
[05:04:38] <enleth> XXCoder: what
[05:05:04] <XXCoder> google BOFH heh
[05:05:11] <XXCoder> first few results
[05:19:18] <XXCoder> catching up on BOFH. bhavent read it for long while lol
[05:32:48] <SpeedEvil> http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1328044
[05:32:48] <SpeedEvil> ansion in terms of the phase shift per unit cavity length of the individual interferometers. Measurements of the coefficients of thermal expansion of a specific type of rolled steel yielded values of 12.7 x 10-6 °C-1 and 7.5 x 10-6 °C-1 in the axial and the transverse direction respectively.
[05:32:50] <SpeedEvil> Fun
[05:32:55] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't know it was that bad
[05:35:08] <SpeedEvil> Now I want to make an all-steel bimetallic thermostat.
[05:35:26] <XXCoder> steel-steel bimetallic? lol
[05:35:45] <SpeedEvil> cut out of the same bit of sheet at right angles
[05:36:02] <XXCoder> so grain direction matters?
[05:36:13] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[05:36:19] <XXCoder> interesting
[05:37:35] <XXCoder> how much would it change?
[05:38:02] <SpeedEvil> I don't know what the pre-rollng expansion was, nor the alloy above (I'm not spending $18)
[05:38:16] <SpeedEvil> but - nearly double in one axis is bad.
[05:38:20] <XXCoder> can use plastic for more "stiff" side?
[05:38:27] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[05:38:40] <SpeedEvil> 7.5ppm - 12.7ppm = 5ppm or so.
[05:38:51] <SpeedEvil> 5ppm*100C = 1/2000th
[05:40:10] <SpeedEvil> I think that means it curves round a circle 6000 times the plate thickness.
[05:42:05] <SpeedEvil> So for 1mm, and a meter length, one side is .5mm longer at 100C.
[05:42:12] <SpeedEvil> that's quite a tight circle
[05:43:04] <XXCoder> wow
[05:43:24] <XXCoder> so smaller difference of lengths, the longer it has to be to be useful?
[05:43:50] <Deejay> grumbl @ freenode
[05:44:07] <SpeedEvil> ah - if it's 2mm thick, and forming a whole circle, and .5% shorter, then that's 6mm change in distance for a 2mm width.
[05:44:52] <SpeedEvil> unless I'm confused, which is frequently, I think a 1m length of 1mm thick rolled plate, two pieces, glued to itself at right angles will bend into around a complete circle
[05:45:12] <SpeedEvil> (at 100C)
[06:13:20] <_methods> SpeedEvil: are you trying to calculate elongation on a rolled piece of sheet steel?
[06:13:46] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised at its amount
[06:14:04] <SpeedEvil> I was computing latterly the bending of a bimetallic steel/steel strip
[06:14:28] <_methods> usually when you roll sheet you don't factor in "stretch"
[06:14:44] <_methods> pi*D usually gives you a pretty accurate blank size
[06:15:01] <_methods> bending on the other hand needs to be calculated
[06:15:04] <SpeedEvil> No, not for rolling.
[06:15:10] <SpeedEvil> Take some existing rolled steel sheet.
[06:15:21] <SpeedEvil> Cut two 1m*1cm strips at right angles.
[06:15:24] <SpeedEvil> Glue together.
[06:15:45] <SpeedEvil> Now, they will completely form a circle at 100C above (or below) the temperature at which you glued them
[06:16:13] <_methods> i guess i don't understand what you're talking about
[06:16:24] <_methods> i thought you were talking about using a slip roll
[06:16:29] <_methods> or pinch roll
[06:16:43] <SpeedEvil> Rolled sheet (or at least the above mentioned one) expands by twice as much in one direction than the other
[06:17:47] <SpeedEvil> (per degree C )
[06:17:54] <Sync> maybe zeeshan can put some insight in this
[06:18:47] <_methods> sheet products have a grain direction and they will bend/stretch more depending on the grain
[06:18:49] <SpeedEvil> I assume this would be cold-rolled
[06:19:51] <_methods> and most sheet products are hot rolled
[06:20:49] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[06:21:19] <SpeedEvil> That reminds me.
[06:21:27] <SpeedEvil> I need to get the block of puff-pastry out of the fridge.
[06:21:31] <SpeedEvil> Puff-pastry is awesome
[06:21:48] <_methods> makes great pie crust hehe
[06:23:12] <SpeedEvil> Also a great example of material anisotropy
[06:23:37] <_methods> puff pastry?
[06:24:21] <SpeedEvil> It is made of very thin layers of pastry and release agent
[06:49:45] <jthornton> yea the sun will come out today
[06:54:25] <Tom_itx> damn pipe broke last night
[06:54:34] <Tom_itx> pinhole in a copper 90
[06:54:58] <Tom_itx> never seen that before... not at the solder
[06:55:07] <zeeshan> dont have that problem with hot rolled cause they're not anisotropic
[06:55:20] <XXCoder> just use lead Tom_itx ;)
[06:55:22] <XXCoder> JK
[06:55:22] <zeeshan> cold rolled you see it :/
[06:55:49] <Tom_itx> not on the straight parts, the fitting
[06:56:53] <Tom_itx> shut the water off.. will fix tonight
[06:57:12] <XXCoder> a flaw?
[06:57:20] <XXCoder> because I dont see a way hole would appear
[06:57:37] <Tom_itx> apparently
[07:12:29] <gonzo_> then having lower L in pll config I have less back emf to fight at speed, so I can get a higher speed
[07:12:37] <ReadError> zeeshan yea
[07:12:48] <ReadError> feel like, if I have to inquire about the price
[07:12:48] <gonzo_> (torque at speed is not an issue, as I won't be cutting)
[07:12:59] <ReadError> its either expensive or they only want to sell me 100 or more
[07:14:06] <ReadError> http://www.linengineering.com/bldc-motors/BLDC16-NEMA17.aspx
[07:14:24] <ReadError> ofc they dont have them listed in their store and searching for the part # yields nothing on google
[07:14:48] <skunkworks> gonzo_, you might just have to test it both ways and see what works best for you.
[07:14:58] <zeeshan> ReadError: lin eng is serious business
[07:15:03] <_methods> ^^
[07:15:12] <zeeshan> we found a bunch of their steppers in a medical device
[07:15:30] <zeeshan> e-mailed them asking for spec sheet, they said they could not release it cause it was custom wound for a customer
[07:15:31] <zeeshan> :P
[07:15:37] <zeeshan> i gained respect for them
[07:15:48] <ReadError> heh
[07:15:55] <gonzo_> skunkworks, may have to. Was hoping to get passed that with a bit of theory
[07:16:00] <ReadError> i just want some nema17 sized ones with encoder
[07:16:09] <zeeshan> i have some
[07:16:11] <zeeshan> steppers..
[07:16:11] <ReadError> found some from china on ebay
[07:16:13] <zeeshan> w/ encoders
[07:16:18] <zeeshan> a lot of them
[07:16:26] <zeeshan> they might be nema 23 though
[07:16:43] <skunkworks> gonzo_, people seem to use this as the bible.
https://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf
[07:17:56] <ReadError> zeeshan hall vs incremental encoding
[07:18:10] <ReadError> seems like hall would offer less feedback/precision?
[07:18:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0YJM0JX.jpg
[07:18:25] <zeeshan> theyre on this pump thing
[07:18:41] <zeeshan> not sure what kind of encoder
[07:18:51] <zeeshan> ts a black disk with a bunch of slots in it
[07:19:04] <zeeshan> prolly incremental
[07:19:42] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/JvGhcp0.jpg
[07:19:43] <zeeshan> better pic
[07:19:54] <zeeshan> the encoder is external
[07:20:44] <ReadError> really what I want is a drop in servo solution to retrofit a stepper
[07:20:59] <ReadError> I know gecko has drivers that can be controlled like that
[07:21:09] <zeeshan> through step and dir
[07:21:09] <zeeshan> yea
[07:24:08] <gonzo_> skunkworks, thanks, that looks to answer the questions. Ta
[07:36:45] <fenn> it's not like it's hard to measure the relevant parameters of a stepper motor, the secrecy is just an inconvenience
[07:50:19] <renesis> heh, max coil temp might be hard to characterize non destructively
[07:50:33] <renesis> maybe if you have a good nose
[08:00:21] <archivist_herron> I dont think I have seen any non manufacturer measure steppers properly
[08:02:21] <archivist_herron> one needs a torque meter / brake test set etc
[08:15:54] <gonzo_> well I certainly had to 'nose' a nema17 motor recentlky. Was doing a test and only had drives that were far too big for the motors
[08:16:04] <gonzo_> (the motors were disposable!)
[08:16:40] <gonzo_> had it stuck down to a plate with a gob of grease and a fan blowing. it still stunk
[08:20:59] <jthornton> finally figured out a way to download the service pack files for SW so I can update
[08:24:13] <_methods> must be horrible having limited bandwidth
[08:24:28] <_methods> i don't know what i'd do
[08:31:43] <jthornton> yea, it is a pia... at least now since I changed plans it's unlimited from 3am to 8am and I'm usually up at 5am so I do all my u/d during that time
[08:37:05] <_methods> how much do they charge you a month?
[08:37:20] <_methods> can you upgrade your bandwidth?
[08:38:10] <JT-Shop> it was $60 now it's $50
[08:38:36] <_methods> they don't have a higher bandwidth plan?
[08:39:49] <JT-Shop> yea for higher price
[08:40:16] <_methods> not worth it?
[08:40:34] <JT-Shop> this one is the only one with free zone
[08:40:59] <_methods> man that's brutal
[08:41:03] <JT-Shop> not really next is 12GB $80
[08:41:13] <JT-Shop> 18GB $110
[08:41:15] <_methods> ouch
[08:41:21] <_methods> so you get 10gb for $50
[08:41:22] <JT-Shop> 30GB $160
[08:41:40] <JT-Shop> and all I can use between 3am and 8am
[08:41:51] <_methods> can you get a 2nd modem and account
[08:42:00] <_methods> then you would get 20gb for $100
[08:42:01] <JT-Shop> the metered time now is outside the free time
[08:42:22] <_methods> and 2 free times
[08:42:24] <JT-Shop> I think this plan will work for me now
[08:42:52] <_methods> with a good router you could lagg the 2 connections and quota them
[08:44:07] <JT-Shop> sun is shining so time to start putting siding up
[08:44:31] <_methods> looks like you guys got the cold on you now
[08:47:22] <JT-Shop> low 30's at night and 50 during the day for the next few days here
[08:57:15] <lair82> Good morning guys,
[08:57:54] <lair82> I am absolutley dumb founded with this new servo I am setting up for my rotary table,
[08:59:53] <lair82> I changed the whole config around, and set the new servo motor as my X linear axis, got the scaling set so one rev showed 1 inch of travel on the dro, and when I set it to g91 incremental, and give it a G00 X 1, it moved over 18 inches
[09:00:49] <cradek> instead of changing everything around, you need to do the methodical troubleshooting we recommended last time. can you go back to the archive and reread the previous suggestions?
[09:04:03] <lair82> cradek, I made a new config using Axis, and then I was able to confirm it was not a run away, I removed the servo from the rotary, and got it so 1 full rev of the motor showed 360 degrees of rotation on the dro,
[09:04:14] <lair82> I have gone over the wiring probably 5 times, everything is good there
[09:05:33] <cradek> right before you left you said if you had any P gain in your pid it ran away. is that still true?
[09:05:45] <lair82> Yes, it still takes off
[09:05:48] <archivist_herron> I have never seen a 1 to 1 ratio on a rotary
[09:06:04] <cradek> then something is very very wrong
[09:06:11] <cradek> stop and figure out what
[09:06:52] <cradek> you simply can't run it without P gain. if you have only FF you have *no* position control
[09:07:04] <archivist_herron> I expect something like 30-90 revs of the servo per rev of the rotary
[09:07:22] <lair82> I removed the motor from the rotary table, to take that guess work out of the equation
[09:07:27] <cradek> yes that's true but is not the immediate problem
[09:07:35] <cradek> brb
[09:08:00] <archivist_herron> I am wondering if he is setting the scale wildly wrong too
[09:09:13] <lair82> I keep getting told the same thing, scaling way off, but I don't know how it can be off if 1 revolution of the motor, shows 360 degrees or rotation on the screen
[09:09:53] <archivist_herron> you are forgetting the worm gear in the rotary
[09:10:01] <lair82> Or now the way I have it set up as linear, and 1 full rev equals 1 inch
[09:10:32] <lair82> I am not even dealing with the rotary any more, just the servo motor
[09:11:27] <lair82> I took the motor out of the rotary table, clamped it to the table, and put a pencil mark at theoretical "0" and have been going off of that mark since
[09:12:59] <pcw_home> For initial setup I would use P only (no FF1 no I no D)
[09:13:06] <archivist_herron> you will only have to tune again when you put it back on, why not work out the ratio, put it back on and do it properly
[09:14:10] <lair82> The reduction is either 1:180 or 1:360 based off of the document I have for the rotary, but I don't know what rpm the original servo was
[09:15:25] <lair82> pcw_home if I put any value in the P, it starts moving, if I put a 1 in the P, it probably takes off at about 1000 rpm's
[09:15:33] <pcw_home> to start you need to first get the rotary direction and scaling correct (DRO reads correctly)
[09:15:48] <lair82> guessing at the 1000 rpms
[09:16:09] <pcw_home> then you need to try with P only
[09:16:10] <pcw_home> if it runs away, you need to invert the analog out polarity
[09:16:11] <lair82> That is the whole problem, direction and scale is correct
[09:17:07] <pcw_home> but if it runs away, you have the feedback reversed
[09:17:21] <lair82> I inverted the analog wires this morning just to make sure, and it took off as soon as I turned the power on, switched them back, and stable as can be
[09:17:59] <lair82> So, invert the wires and put a 1 in the P?
[09:18:17] <pcw_home> umm you cannot revers the analog wires un less the drive has differential inputs
[09:18:58] <pcw_home> does the drive have differential inputs? (something like AIN + and AIN-)
[09:22:17] <lair82> http://postimg.org/image/msalmvnlx/ The left diagram is what I am working with
[09:23:27] <pcw_home> so single ended, you _cannot_ reverse these
[09:23:55] <lair82> http://postimg.org/image/w1crwzwhx/ and this is the feedback I am working with from the drive
[09:24:10] <pcw_home> you reverse the analog output in the hal file
[09:26:07] <lair82> So just put a negative symbol in front of the [AXIS_3]OUTPUT_SCALE in the INI?
[09:26:11] <pcw_home> so initial servo setup steps
[09:26:13] <pcw_home> 1. Get drive enable working
[09:26:14] <pcw_home> 2. get encoder scaled and in proper direction
[09:26:16] <pcw_home> 3. set a small amount of P only and check for proper feedback, if it runs away, change sign of analog out
[09:27:17] <pcw_home> yes inverting output scale should work
[09:33:30] <lair82> Ok, heading back out there
[09:54:57] <lair82> Ok, just re-wired the analog command so it is wired correctly, went over direction and scale, that is correct, looking at the shaft end of the servo clockwise rotation is counting in the positive direction on the dro, and I have the scale set at 27.7777 so 1 revolution of the servo motor is 360 degrees of rotation on the dro, and that checks out
[09:56:21] <lair82> But, when I enter any value in the P, with a 0 in the FF1, it takes off, so I inverted the OUTPUT_SCALE value, and it still takes off, just in the opposite direction
[09:58:36] <lair82> I talked to techs at Automation direct, and they said everything looked ok in regards to the parameters in the servo drive itself, which I have just the basic stuff set, in regards to velocity control using +/- 10v analog control
[09:58:39] <archivist_herron> he said invert the output, not invert the scale
[09:59:38] <lair82> I am not saying that something is not amiss in the drive, I am just not sure what it could be
[09:59:58] <archivist_herron> 27.7 sounds a very small scale
[10:00:24] <archivist_herron> still set for linear?
[10:00:49] <lair82> No I went back to the angular configuration,
[10:01:15] <archivist_herron> do you know the encoder lines/number
[10:01:36] <lair82> The drive is outputting 2500 ppr
[10:02:37] <pcw_home> so 27.77 is correct if you want 1 servo motor turn to be 360 degrees
[10:02:44] <lair82> I can, through the drive, scale the encoder signal to what ever is needed, but I left the scale alone, it is set at 1
[10:02:53] <archivist_herron> I just calculated the same 27.7
[10:03:12] <pcw_home> (this will need to be multiplied by the rotary table gear ratio eventually)
[10:03:21] <lair82> Right, just for right now to get the major problem figured out, I am running the 27.777
[10:05:02] <lair82> Conveniently enough, it will be either 5000 or 10000, 1:180> 180*27.7777=5000 1:360> 360*27.7777=10000
[10:07:27] <pcw_home> it really makes no sense that it will runaway with both analog output polarities, can you post your hal/ini files somewhere?
[10:07:28] <pcw_home> I suspect the PID wiring is not correct (maybe feedback is not connected correctly)
[10:14:12] <lair82> http://pastebin.com/vaydMcCk http://pastebin.com/1PaS7eYz Here are my files
[10:15:51] <cradek> net a-pos-fb => pid.a.feedback
[10:15:53] <cradek> net rotary-revs <= hm2_7i80.0.encoder.01.position
[10:15:58] <cradek> these aren't the same nets
[10:18:03] <lair82> That would probably help
[10:18:15] <pcw_home> I think dgarrs single node net warnings would help here
[10:19:07] <cradek> I don't like these multi-line net commands that are the fad
[10:19:17] <cradek> net signal list-of-pins
[10:19:40] <cradek> the whole point of the net command is to make the net with one command
[10:21:52] <pcw_home> I think they are of some limited use for organizing the hal file into logical sections
[10:23:11] <archivist_herron> I can imagine naming a net you may want later, a warning is very sensible
[10:23:18] <lair82> Is that the only thing that sticks out?
[10:28:34] <lair82> Everything else looked OK then? I will go change the connection, if that is the only one.
[10:29:19] <pcw_home> It certainly explains the symptoms
[10:30:20] <lair82> But that is the only noticeable thing right now?
[10:30:57] <pcw_home> easier to debug one thing at a time...
[10:31:24] <lair82> Ok, I will go change that and see what I come up with
[10:34:23] <pcw_home> you may still need to change the output polarity since without feedback
[10:34:24] <pcw_home> the correct output polarity is still an unknown
[10:48:13] <ssi> hm what should I buy at enco?
[10:53:35] <lair82> Ok, I have control now of the servo, basic incremental moves from MDI, are giving favorable results, it is just very slow/sluggish
[10:54:52] <pcw_home> ssi: a while ago you had a question about some undefined sserial commands, take a look at the 7I84 manual
[10:54:54] <pcw_home> I think I did not update all the manuals with the latest sserial info (7I77 is old for example)
[10:55:54] <ssi> pcw_home: I'll take a look, thanks
[10:56:23] <lair82> I found that if I go above 0.01 for the P value the servo gets very unstable, and eventually it shuts off
[11:03:46] <lair82> So in my INI Max_Velocity for the angular axis is degrees per second for the speed?
[11:15:30] <pcw_home> Probably, I thing all velocities are in machine units per second
[11:15:37] <pcw_home> think
[11:22:08] <lair82_> Yep, it is machine unit per second, so for right now, the motor is a 2000 rpm motor, 360 degrees per rev, 2000*360=720000, divide by 60 to turn into seconds, 720000/60=12000, MAX_VELOCITY = 12000 degrees per second
[11:25:35] <pcw_home> divided by the rotary table ratio... (and subtract about 20% for headroom)
[11:28:05] <lair82_> Is it because of the P value being so low, that it is still slow and sluggish?
[11:29:52] <pcw_home> That and no FF1 (or setup issues with the drive, input filters etc)
[11:30:27] <pcw_home> tuning a bare drive will be difficult as well
[11:30:46] <pcw_home> is this a 1 KHz servo thread?
[11:31:19] <lair82_> SERVO_PERIOD = 2500000
[11:31:43] <pcw_home> too slow
[11:31:57] <lair82_> The drive is not tuned at all, I reset all parameters to factory defaults yesterday
[11:32:32] <pcw_home> the drive may need tuning (and turning off any filtering)
[11:32:57] <pcw_home> I would use 1 KHz minimum for the servo thread
[11:33:26] <lair82_> If I put a 1 in the FF1, It makes it respond quickly, but as soon as I quit jogging it, it goes back to the position I started rom when jogging???
[11:33:37] <lair82_> rom>from
[11:33:49] <pcw_home> you need to tune FF1
[11:34:59] <pcw_home> but there is no point in tuning until you have the rotary table connected and scaling correct
[11:35:59] <lair82_> So set SERVO_PERIOD to 100000 ?
[11:36:19] <pcw_home> FF1=1 only makes sense if you normalize the output scaling (so analog out is scaled in degrees per second at the table)
[11:36:36] <lair82_> I get confused with the us, ms, khz
[11:36:49] <pcw_home> 1000000
[11:36:54] <lair82_> Ok
[11:37:39] <pcw_home> 1000000 = 1 million ns = 1 ms,
[11:37:40] <pcw_home> 1/1ms = 1000 Hz
[11:38:02] <lair82_> Ok, I will get the motor back in the rotary, should I tune the drive before i put it back in though?
[11:38:12] <lair82_> Aaaahhhh, I see now
[13:16:09] <CaptHindsight> http://diylilcnc.org/bigshoulders/ mostly wooden cnc router
[13:16:33] <CaptHindsight> that is a lot of work to end up with this
[13:17:26] <archivist> ah the dreams
[13:17:33] <CaptHindsight> heh
[13:19:36] <ssi> lol
[13:19:53] <archivist> I just wish some of them looked at real hardware first
[13:20:21] <SpeedEvil> ...
[13:20:26] <ssi> I think I'm getting a cnc mill this weekend
[13:20:30] <ssi> I just gotta work out how to move it
[13:20:37] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Well, if you already have a laser cutter, I guess that makes it cheap.
[13:20:37] <zeeshan> another one?!
[13:20:43] <ssi> yeah
[13:20:48] <ssi> this one's ready to run
[13:20:51] <ssi> already converted
[13:20:52] <archivist> ask a forking forker to fork it over
[13:20:54] <ssi> and it's done properly
[13:20:57] <ssi> I know because I converted it :)
[13:21:18] <SpeedEvil> ssi: clamp a bar in the spindle, four casters, invert it, then pogo home.
[13:21:38] <ssi> SpeedEvil: that's right up there with buying four robot arms, bolting them together, and making them walk home :D
[13:21:47] <FinboySlick> ssi: You converted it just poorly enough that you'd know they'd sell it to you cheap afterward?
[13:21:55] <CaptHindsight> archivist: I came across it here
http://www.element14.com/community/blogs/pdp7/2010/06/15/chicago-talks-diy-cnc-mill-circuit-bending
[13:21:57] <ssi> FinboySlick: haha no but that's a great idea
[13:22:07] <ssi> the company went under, I offered to buy it from them but they didn't sell it to me
[13:22:13] <ssi> they stiffed an electrician $7500
[13:22:16] <ssi> and they gave him the mill instead
[13:22:20] <ssi> he has no clue what to do with it
[13:22:25] <ssi> so I'm buying it from him for $3500 :D
[13:22:49] <CaptHindsight> archivist: it's like actors playing doctors giving a presentation on medicine
[13:23:14] <_methods> damn score
[13:23:18] <ssi> yussss
[13:23:18] <FinboySlick> Oh, zeeshan is awake ;) I might have to bug you for your car repair skills ;)
[13:23:29] <archivist> it reminded me of origami
[13:23:33] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: i dont sleep
[13:23:38] <ssi> by the way
[13:23:39] <ssi> https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12308457_10100822022657512_8393941194162441089_n.jpg?oh=ae588309875ab704f73b30d0669994b7&oe=56DEA25A
[13:23:42] <ssi> :D
[13:23:55] <archivist> who wants an RX7 engine cheeeep
[13:24:15] <CaptHindsight> with free shipping? :)
[13:24:27] <zeeshan> nice ssi
[13:24:40] <zeeshan> we now know where ian lives
[13:24:42] <zeeshan> PARTY TIME
[13:24:44] <ssi> no you don't
[13:24:48] <ssi> you know where I used to live :)
[13:24:48] <FinboySlick> I wish it was engine stuff. But sadly it's the dreaded car electrical stuff.
[13:24:51] <zeeshan> :]
[13:24:56] <ssi> you can go burn my house down again
[13:24:57] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-Rotary-Engine-12A-RX7-/321935362777
[13:24:58] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: whats wrong
[13:25:24] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: I *suspect* that I have something going to ground and draining my battery when the car is off.
[13:25:49] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: very easy to check if thats the case
[13:26:00] <zeeshan> set meter to 10A, disconnect ground
[13:26:03] <zeeshan> @ battery
[13:26:13] <archivist> batteries also fail that way
[13:26:22] <zeeshan> put meter in series with the disconnected ground cable
[13:26:25] <zeeshan> and - battery terminal
[13:26:30] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yeah, but not two in a row.
[13:26:34] <zeeshan> if you get more than 100mA reading
[13:26:35] <zeeshan> something is up
[13:26:50] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Exactly the kind of knowledge I was looking for :)
[13:27:10] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: You may even redeem yourself for putting a v6 in an rx7.
[13:27:15] <FinboySlick> But not quite yet.
[13:27:17] <zeeshan> v8
[13:27:18] <zeeshan> haha
[13:27:30] <FinboySlick> v8? Did you remove the back seat?
[13:27:43] <archivist> I would be wary of a 10A meter currents can be a lot higher
[13:27:59] <ssi> archivist: meters are fused :)
[13:28:03] <FinboySlick> archivist: I'll check with a clamp first.
[13:28:06] <ssi> although fluke fuses are balls expensive
[13:28:29] <archivist> not all meters are fused on the 10A range
[13:28:34] <ssi> mine are
[13:28:41] <ssi> and those are the only ones that matter :D
[13:29:01] <archivist> I am thinking cheap s*** meters
[13:29:18] <ssi> the ones that explode terribly if you hit them with a couple kv?
[13:29:48] <archivist> someone let the smoke out of one of mine on the mains
[13:33:16] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Now, assuming something is up (say 800mA). Hints on finding it? I was thinking of replacing each fuse in the fusebox with the ampmeter (assuming that total is below acceptable range).
[13:33:27] <zeeshan> thats a lot
[13:33:34] <zeeshan> but not terrible at the same time
[13:33:43] <zeeshan> what model battery do you have?
[13:33:45] <ssi> enough to kill the battery in short order
[13:34:00] <FinboySlick> Optima Yellowtop D35
[13:34:03] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: that is the best way to find the problem
[13:34:08] <zeeshan> isolate each circuit through the fuse box
[13:34:29] <zeeshan> well your battery is 48 ah
[13:34:54] <zeeshan> so it should last at 2 days with that kind of drain
[13:35:04] <zeeshan> at least
[13:35:12] <zeeshan> but i think that rating is at 20C
[13:35:32] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: With -15C and a 3.5L v6 to crank, it's a lot less.
[13:35:37] <ssi> that's also the full to empty rating
[13:35:47] <ssi> you let it drain a few hours and you won't have enough to crank it
[13:36:16] <archivist> 48ah is a bit small for a large engine in the cold
[13:36:35] <lair82> cradek, pcw_home, Just wanted to say thank you for the help, now things are looking a lot more promising, now I have control of it, the drive is tuned, it is running quite fast now, as to be expected anyway, so now on to actual tuning. Thanks again, and I apologize for the craziness, I said from the start it was probably something stupid as to why it wasn,t running as expected, sure enough missing one of the most important conne
[13:36:35] <lair82> ctions lead on a 2 week ride through hell.
[13:36:42] <FinboySlick> archivist: Engine takes all the room under the hood. I had to get creative to fit even that one.
[13:37:04] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: cute little engine
[13:37:05] <zeeshan> :-)
[13:37:31] <zeeshan> is it the ecoboost?
[13:37:35] <archivist> go faster bulge (for the battery)!
[13:37:46] <FinboySlick> factory-provided battery is smaller.
[13:39:34] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Same block as the SHO ecoboost, but sadly I was just a couple years prior.
[13:39:43] <zeeshan> ah
[13:41:10] <FinboySlick> Steeda's tune claims that I'm around 315HP, but I doubt a dyno would agree.
[13:41:28] <FinboySlick> I do have the go-faster Borla exhaust though.
[13:53:32] <JT-Shop> sweet just picked up a Giant road bike that was ridden 2 times...
[14:30:38] <CaptHindsight> Giant is a brand but the first image I had was of JT on something like this
http://www.ripleys.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Boneshaker1.jpg
[14:32:01] <_methods> that handlebar placement doesn't look very helpful
[14:33:03] <CaptHindsight> kneejammer
[14:33:25] <archivist> you can just imagine a reprap noob come up with a design like that
[14:35:47] <archivist> I wonder how many were killed on those
[14:36:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.quirksee.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/DSC_0645.jpg
[14:36:19] <CaptHindsight> V2
[14:37:45] <CaptHindsight> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/63/21/9863216ce532cb14e85cee6d90b78bdb.jpg
[14:38:18] <_methods> hahah you better not make fun of the 3d printer people
[14:38:27] <_methods> you'll hurt someones feelings
[14:38:53] * ssi has hurt feelings
[14:39:10] <CaptHindsight> wtf?
http://swagct.com/uploads/2012/08/1_1346333793.jpg
[14:39:39] * SpeedEvil sexually identifies as a 3d printer.
[14:39:43] * SpeedEvil looks at his hot end.
[14:39:45] <_methods> hehe
[14:39:53] <_methods> walkicycle
[14:40:07] <_methods> pretty sure that bike comes with a dildo seat
[14:40:45] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/l1SsdEp
[14:40:52] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of bikes though more fun
[14:40:56] <SpeedEvil> Walking bike
[14:41:01] <SpeedEvil> sort-of
[14:41:21] <_methods> strandebeastcycle
[14:41:22] <_methods> lol
[14:41:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[14:41:48] <_methods> gilligan got the professor to make him a bicycle
[14:42:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98513_b3.jpg
[14:42:27] <_methods> that's not on kickstarter?
[14:43:39] <ssi> _methods: I intend to get one of these soooon
[14:43:40] <ssi> http://www.helicycle.com
[14:43:50] <ssi> considerably less makery :D
[14:44:08] <_methods> nice
[14:44:15] <ssi> i ran into a guy with one recently
[14:44:19] <ssi> rekindled my interesnt
[14:48:54] <_methods> that thing is cool
[14:49:01] <ssi> extremely
[14:51:33] <ssi> The T62 runs at fixed rpm in flight of approx 60,000 rpm and it has a governor to maintain engine/rotor rpm. It doesn't run at full power, but rather at 100% flight rpm.
[14:51:36] <ssi> Power is controlled by the fuel flow; increasing collective pitch puts more load on the engine and the governor increases fuel flow automatically while holding rpm constant. The pilot simply controls the collective.
[14:55:59] <_methods> choppers are cool
[14:57:37] <SpeedEvil> Swashplates are not
[14:58:32] <ssi> what's wrong with swashplates?
[14:59:48] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEPf0QHVuMM
[15:00:56] <SpeedEvil> I can't find an interesting NASA paper now LEARN - it was using pnuematic actuators driven from two tubes, one closed at teh hub, one closed at the blade tip, and with actuators between them exploiting the centrifugally pumped air to fly the blade with no external swashllate
[15:00:56] <ssi> you're gonna have a hard time getting inside that thing
[15:00:59] <SpeedEvil> Too complex
[15:01:10] <SpeedEvil> ssi: I haven't worked out how it scales.
[15:01:18] <SpeedEvil> i suspect not great for large ones.
[15:02:15] <ssi> when I say I want a tiny helicopter, tiny means with respect to other manned helicopters :)
[15:02:28] <SpeedEvil> aha
[15:02:31] <SpeedEvil> http://nari.arc.nasa.gov/learnseminar2013
[15:02:45] <SpeedEvil> Full-scale Experimental Validation of Dynamic, Centrifugally Powered, Pneumatic Actuators for Active Rotor Blade Surfaces
[15:02:59] <SpeedEvil> Contains interesting preseentation
[15:03:17] <SpeedEvil> Lots of really cool stuff there
[15:09:36] <ssi> lol a helicycle next to an a-star
[15:09:37] <ssi> http://www.helicycle.com/Flying%20Ships/h4.jpg
[15:18:23] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r9Gmi-WK7I kickstarter this!
[15:19:22] <CaptHindsight> @ 0:40
[15:20:35] <ssi> cute
[15:23:49] <Magnifikus> would someone agree if i say the docs on machinekit are not that great? looks like copied linuxcnc ones :D
[15:24:33] <CaptHindsight> Magnifikus: they don't have tons of devs and it's a fork of Linuxcnc
[15:25:06] <XXCoder> lol
[15:25:14] <XXCoder> someone forked linuxcnc? why>
[15:25:34] <CaptHindsight> they wanted what they wanted
[15:26:18] <CaptHindsight> why do you ask? what are you up to? :)
[15:26:54] <XXCoder> planned to steal it muhahhaa
[15:33:05] <Magnifikus> wanted a remote interface :D
[15:33:08] <Magnifikus> thought its cool
[15:34:29] <Magnifikus> now back to stealing the picnc hal :D
[15:36:59] <XXCoder> "LinuxCNC - which eventually turned into Machinekit "
[15:37:03] <XXCoder> wow
[15:37:08] <XXCoder> machinekit.io lies
[15:37:27] <XXCoder> its a fucking fork not change name
[15:44:50] <mrsun__> where did you find that on that page ?
[15:45:40] <anomynous> XXCoder, maybe they didn't mean that.
[15:45:58] <XXCoder> anomynous: it was a direct quote
[15:46:00] <anomynous> XXCoder, it can be understood as development.
[15:46:02] <anomynous> yes
[15:46:07] <anomynous> i took it as such
[15:46:08] <XXCoder> mrsun__: t blog
[15:46:10] <mrsun__> "Many might remember that one of the key contributions of the unified build branch of LinuxCNC - which eventually turned into Machinekit"
[15:46:12] <XXCoder> *at
[15:46:24] <mrsun__> dont just cut text from somewhere, paste the whole line .. :P
[15:47:25] <CaptHindsight> I'm all for revisionist history and not letting the facts get in the way of my dogma
[15:48:32] <mrsun__> so many things circling about what like obama says and other politi(cans?) say etc and it sounds aweful but then you listen to the whole speach and it has a totaly other meaning .. due to the same fact as XXCoder coder did here, they just cut what they think sounds bad :P
[15:48:59] <anomynous> okay. Now put in an easter egg which says on easter that "Machinekit is just a fork!"
[15:49:09] <ssi> it's a spork
[15:49:11] <mrsun__> "we should stop the slaughter of poor people" "slaughter of poor people" "OMFG THEY TELL US IN TV TO SLAUGHTER POOR PEOPLE"
[15:49:22] <XXCoder> mrsun__: well so far I know, machinekit is still a fork not main build
[15:49:44] <mrsun__> XXCoder: they never claimed to be the original build in that sentance :P
[15:50:02] <CaptHindsight> picking of the nits 101
[15:50:20] <anomynous> CaptHindsight, no easter egg? :(
[15:52:15] <CaptHindsight> mrsun__: when did Trump say that? :)
[15:52:39] <mrsun__> CaptHindsight: dont know if anyone has said that was just an example of how people do
[15:52:46] <mrsun__> everything just to be angry at something
[15:52:53] <CaptHindsight> I'm just funnin
[15:53:40] <XXCoder> mrsun__: I removed first part as it was moot - it still says it is now main project
[15:53:46] <XXCoder> having replaced linuxcnc
[15:54:39] <XXCoder> and yes, I know about editing quotes to mean different from what orginial meant, but this isnt the case.
[15:54:59] <mrsun__> i read it as there was a branch that they now renamed to machinekit
[15:55:14] <mrsun__> but then again, im not after any heads
[15:55:28] <zeeshan> what does machinekit allow you to do
[15:55:30] <zeeshan> that linuxcnc doesnt
[15:55:35] <XXCoder> me either, but I don't like theft
[15:56:11] <mrsun__> sigh, there is no theft .. there was a branch that they renamed .. an open source project .. that was forked (branched) .. not theft .. just natural evolution of open source
[15:56:30] <mrsun__> and they cant run around calling their branch for linuxcnc either
[15:56:52] <CaptHindsight> Look in the road ahead vs Look in the road a head.
[15:57:40] <XXCoder> though zeeshan is right - what does machinekit actually add?
[15:58:19] <zeeshan> i was seriously asking
[15:58:20] <zeeshan> lol
[15:58:25] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I know.
[15:58:38] <zeeshan> i troll a lot, so i wanted to be clear :P
[15:58:47] <mrsun__> beaglebone support it seems, some remote interface to run it
[15:59:02] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: they worked on getting Linuxcnc to work with xenomai, preemt_rt and be easier to interface to web services and remote gui's
[15:59:10] <mrsun__> or is beaglebone support in the main linuxcnc branch ?
[15:59:30] <XXCoder> good question
[15:59:40] <zeeshan> ah
[16:00:20] <CaptHindsight> it's in the older UBC2 branch
[16:00:40] <CaptHindsight> go back to '13 and it's all there
[16:00:49] <CaptHindsight> UBC3 sorry
[16:00:57] <XXCoder> so it was removed? wonder why
[16:01:16] <CaptHindsight> not removed just never in the official
[16:01:44] <CaptHindsight> there were lots of changes in that branch that didn't include comments and docs
[16:02:14] <CaptHindsight> but you are welcome to dig through it and slap it together
[16:27:25] <Deejay> gn8
[16:33:14] <morbo> hey there
[16:33:22] <morbo> do you guys have any lists of part sources for machines,
[16:33:28] <morbo> like controllers, motors...
[16:33:32] <morbo> computer parts and etc?
[16:35:37] <ReadError> suppose it depends what you are doing?
[16:42:15] <morbo> ah, I'm building a 5 axis camera
[16:42:30] <morbo> and my boss wants to use mach3 or EMC or linuxcnc
[16:42:36] <morbo> he hasn't decided yet
[16:42:59] <morbo> and figured here would be a good place to look
[16:43:06] <morbo> for resources
[16:43:27] <JT-Shop> stepper or servo?
[16:44:35] <morbo> steppers
[16:45:38] <JT-Shop> I like the Mesa 5i25 7i76 for steppers and like Gecko stepper drives like G251 for <50v
[16:46:55] <JT-Shop> antek for power supply
http://www.antekinc.com/power-supplies/
[16:47:07] <JT-Shop> note that is antek not antec
[16:47:13] <morbo> oh cool, thanks
[16:50:28] <JT-Shop> recent pc
http://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/29147-intel-cpu-on-board-motherboard-suggestion?start=20#62692
[16:50:33] <JT-Shop> with good latency
[16:51:00] * JT-Shop goes back to work
[16:51:16] <morbo> I like the Mesa 5i25 7i76 for steppers and like Gecko stepper drives like G251 for <50v
[16:51:17] <morbo> ahh
[16:51:20] <morbo> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=215
[16:51:55] <morbo> these eh
[17:00:30] <choonway> you might want to start off with something integrated like this
[17:00:33] <choonway> https://www.adafruit.com/products/1749
[17:01:20] <JT-Shop> that won't work with LinuxCNC!
[17:01:40] <choonway> it accepts g-code...
[17:02:10] <morbo> yeah tinyg doesn't go with mach3
[17:02:12] <morbo> or lcnc
[17:02:24] <morbo> from what I've read anyways, definitely not mac3
[17:02:31] <morbo> and thats probably what we'll end up with...annoyingly
[17:42:30] <JT-Shop> are wireless bike computers that sell for <$20 any good?
[17:42:37] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Raniaco-Original-Wireless-Speedometer/dp/B013SD1X9W/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1449010806&sr=8-4&keywords=bicycle+computer
[17:42:40] <zeeshan> bike computers??!
[17:43:15] <jdh> JT: speed/distance are pretty simple.
[17:43:20] <JT-Shop> yea, got a new road bike today... guy rode it twice lol
[17:43:25] <jdh> what is it?
[17:43:31] <zeeshan> nice jt
[17:43:34] <JT-Shop> yea, that's about all I want
[17:43:40] <zeeshan> i got a q
[17:43:47] <JT-Shop> Giant let me go look
[17:43:47] <zeeshan> is there a reason you dont wanan use your cell phone for that info?
[17:46:00] <JT-Shop> http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.5/22177/83959/
[17:46:02] <jdh> it's almost time to go biking... I need 260 more miles this year
[17:46:17] <JT-Shop> it's in my pocket playing music on the head phones lol
[17:46:22] <zeeshan> haha jt
[17:46:33] <JT-Shop> how many miles do you ride?
[17:46:44] <zeeshan> you guys must have horse legs
[17:46:49] <zeeshan> w/ all the riding you do
[17:46:53] <jdh> I'm going for 6000 miles this year
[17:46:58] <zeeshan> i wouldn't want to be kicked by you!
[17:47:06] <JT-Shop> this is the one
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy.5/18733/76111/
[17:47:09] <jdh> should get something over that.
[17:47:13] <zeeshan> jdh that's impressive
[17:47:20] <ReadError> any servo gurus around?
[17:47:21] <zeeshan> thats more miles than some people drive in a year
[17:47:37] <ReadError> just wondering the difference in precision on incremental vs hall
[17:47:48] <jdh> looks like a road bike... bikes are good.
[17:48:00] <JT-Shop> I ride about 60 miles a week on the mountain
[17:48:02] <JT-Shop> bike
[17:49:10] <jdh> that's pretty good for a mtb
[17:49:49] <greg_> hall is for commutation
[17:50:02] <jdh> there are lots of phone apps. I find using teh phone for that annoying
[17:50:26] <JT-Shop> we have some nice trails a few miles from here
[17:51:30] <ReadError> greg_, hmm so
[17:51:33] <greg_> readerror unless you're using one of those absolute hall encoders
[17:51:44] <ReadError> i see that some offer either as an option
[17:51:51] <ReadError> in terms of encoders
[17:52:16] <ReadError> I just cant see hall being as precise, but ive never used them or any BLDC servos
[17:53:06] <greg_> what do you want to use it for?
[17:53:46] <ReadError> pick-n-place
[17:54:42] <greg_> motor position feedback?
[17:55:11] <ReadError> yea, and feedback to prevent mis-steps
[17:55:37] <ReadError> and the lighter rotor
[17:56:08] <greg_> no specs on these encoders?
[17:56:21] <ReadError> man, having a hell of a time finding a good place as well
[17:56:30] <ReadError> most sites dont list prices which is a turn off
[17:56:39] <ReadError> then there ebay/aliexpress
[17:56:50] <greg_> renishaw makes nice ones
[17:56:53] <ReadError> and its all super china spec'd
[17:57:19] <ReadError> or im finding ones that are waaaay too large for my application
[17:58:01] <greg_> http://www.rls.si/products/rotary-magnetic-encoders/incremental-encoders
[18:00:23] <ReadError> yea thats one of the scary 'contact for quote' sites ;(
[18:02:48] <greg_> depends what price is scary, 120USD for a 9 bit absolute RE22 a few year ago.
[18:03:23] <ReadError> yea, 120 is doable
[18:03:32] <ReadError> but ive seen some listed for much more
[18:03:50] <greg_> they won't bite if you ask for a quote
[18:04:19] <ReadError> would prefer to buy the combo
[18:04:23] <ReadError> motor+encoder
[18:04:32] <ReadError> then source drivers
[18:05:41] <greg_> hall encoders are not very common, but I haven't looked at smaller motors
[18:06:45] <ReadError> im not hard on about hall
[18:07:08] <ReadError> i was mostly wondering the plus/minus to each implementation
[18:14:43] * JT-Shop wanders inside to cook Korean Shrimp Pancakes yummm
[18:15:59] * _methods wonders inside wtf that tastes like
[18:42:00] <jthornton> very good
[18:42:40] <jthornton> http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/saeujeon
[18:43:02] <PetefromTn_> huh my wife is making shrimp stir fry right now.... never had a shrimp pancake tho
[18:43:55] <jthornton> korean pancake is not like american pancake lol
[18:44:01] <jthornton> they are some kind of good
[18:44:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah apparently
[18:49:11] <PetefromTn_> those are some nice jumbo shrimp LOL
[19:02:46] <jthornton> this is also a good one
http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/ya-chae-jeon
[19:12:20] <Contract_Pilot> Afrernoon
[19:12:32] <Tom_itx> pinhole leak fixed
[19:12:58] <Tom_itx> changed out some bad shutoff valves while i was at it
[19:21:00] <fenn> might be water hammer
[19:21:41] <fenn> do you have an air cushion space in the pipes?
[19:38:52] <andypugh> Well, that was tedious. Wiring a cable to a Lemo 2B conector.
[19:39:31] <Sync> depending on the insert they can be annoying
[19:39:45] <andypugh> the cable is overall screened, then contains 3 x individually screened pairs, 2 thicker power wires and 4 smaller signal cables.
[19:40:24] <Sync> the 16 pin one is incredibly tricky
[19:41:05] <andypugh> It’s a loose-terminal connector, which is better in some ways, but if there is _any_ solder on the outside of the terminal where the wire goes in then it won’t fit into the housing.
[19:41:13] <andypugh> These are, indeed, 16 pin ones.
[19:41:36] <andypugh> Though this was actualy easier than the 4-pin size 00 ones.
[19:42:12] <Sync> I wonder how good chinaclone lemos are
[19:42:25] <andypugh> But with all those screens there is an awful lot of wire whiskerage to short things out.
[19:42:55] <andypugh> One of the wires broke off the terminal as the terminal clicked in.
[19:43:05] <Sync> nice
[19:43:13] <Sync> I usually get the soldercup ones
[19:43:17] <andypugh> the teminals are sub-flush, and I don’t have an extractor.
[19:43:36] <Sync> that's the first thing I order before I even order the crimp tool
[19:43:47] <andypugh> solder-cup with this cable would be _horrible_
[19:45:04] <Sync> dunno, I never had real issues with it as you have quite a lot of space in the connector body
[19:45:33] <andypugh> I think I should have stripped a longer length of the outer.
[19:45:40] <Sync> although ordering only the real crimp tooling gets really annoyingly expensive fast
[19:45:44] <Sync> probably
[19:46:06] <andypugh> The outer sheath came all the way through the collet and into the body, I suspect it isn’t meant to.
[19:46:36] <andypugh> Pin extractor is £47. Not as bad as I guessed, but still pretty expensive.
[19:48:23] <Sync> yeah
[19:48:32] <Sync> they are made from gold apparently
[19:49:35] <malcom2073> I hate lemo conectors, but the solder cup ones....
[19:49:40] <malcom2073> Nightmares are made of those
[19:50:30] <Sync> nah, they are okay
[19:50:34] <andypugh> They are very nice connectors. I can’t see anything else with the same pin-density being easier.
[19:54:50] <andypugh> One thing I am not sure of with Lemo is what is meant to happen with the shield
[20:01:31] <andypugh> Crikey, assembling the cable took a _lot_ longer than I thought. I thought it was about 10pm, not 0130!
[20:01:43] <andypugh> Sleeping time.
[20:17:28] <__rob2> anyone know how different Tormachs PathPilot is from LinuxCNC ?
[20:17:39] <fenn> it has pretty icons
[20:18:24] <__rob2> so I could swap it out for LinuxCNC, so I don't have to wait for them to recompile ?
[20:18:40] <fenn> it's the same thing under the hood
[20:19:04] <__rob2> right, thats good
[20:19:15] <__rob2> just need to find which post processor will work for inventor
[20:22:32] <jdh> inventor does cam?
[20:23:09] <__rob2> yea
[20:23:38] <__rob2> used it with mach3 and its not bad
[20:24:21] <__rob2> generates 4 axis toolpaths too
[20:25:40] <__rob2> whats the best stanalone cam package ?
[20:25:51] <__rob2> for generating toolpaths
[20:25:52] <malcom2073> Someone was working on getting path pilot it working with parport, don't know if they made any progress
[20:28:46] <Erant> __rob2: Fusion360 has an 'emc' setting.
[20:29:38] <Erant> I use Fusion360 for CAM, and it's really nice.
[20:29:59] <__rob2> there is "generic EMC" listed in inventor
[20:30:15] <__rob2> wondering if that will be able to use the ATC
[21:15:05] <FloppyDisk> That's odd that inventor has CAM when Autodesk has the HSMExpress CAM package - good for Solidworks and AutoDesk. The 2 1/2D is free, but full 3d contouring costs$$$
[21:15:10] <FloppyDisk> Lot's of $$$$
[21:18:25] <FloppyDisk> Oh - the HSMExpress has post processors for both mach and linuxcnc. Works pretty nice. The 2 1/2D is free, you do have to register it.
[21:19:21] <PetefromTn_> the fusion 360 is full 3D no?
[21:23:01] <FloppyDisk> I just watched a 2 min video on fusion 360, looks nice. Thought it was just CAD, but it's CAD/CAM. It does cost $300 annually.
[21:23:26] <PetefromTn_> actually it is free for students and startups/hobbyists
[21:31:39] <FloppyDisk> Nice...
