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[01:53:13] <jesseg> Is the intermediate point in G28 FAST or COORDINATED?
[01:53:44] <jesseg> Since it probably just specifies only one axis to move to the intermediate position, coordination probably doesn't matter
[02:10:35] <Deejay> moin
[04:04:53] <XXCoder> yess ER11 collet fits my spindle!
[04:05:01] <XXCoder> I thought it was wrong size
[04:49:07] <Loetmichel2> XXCoder: er11 is a standard. how could it NOT fit?
[04:49:24] <XXCoder> Loetmichel2: my grinder isnt exactly standard
[04:51:27] <Loetmichel2> ah, you mean: "that colled holder looks like ER11, altho it dosent say so on the manual, lets see if a collet fiots?
[04:51:29] <Loetmichel2> -o
[04:51:40] <XXCoder> more or less
[04:51:54] <XXCoder> I checked sizes and compared em to standards
[04:51:59] <XXCoder> it was $4 risk
[04:52:02] <XXCoder> so yeah
[04:52:22] <Loetmichel2> then: lucky you, congrats ;)
[04:52:33] <XXCoder> its awesome because I now have a way to hold pile of used tool in that specific hold size
[04:52:45] <XXCoder> it cut inocel and are useless for metal
[04:52:51] <XXCoder> but wood or plastic? no problem!
[04:54:27] <Loetmichel2> with TC tools i made the opposite observatoion: to cut plastics you need a very sharp new tool
[04:54:35] <Loetmichel2> to cut steel a dull one is sufficient
[04:54:53] <XXCoder> oh hmm maybe those tools are useless then
[04:55:05] <XXCoder> nothing wrong with testing em though
[04:55:12] <Loetmichel2> right
[04:58:30] <XXCoder> cant wait to test that
[05:03:14] <XXCoder> interesting.
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/2/2/470422_v2.jpg
[05:03:29] <XXCoder> its to proetct car from marmots that get high off antifreeze
[05:03:37] <XXCoder> and wheck stuff in car to get it.
[05:07:08] <Loetmichel> how can a plastic sheed deter any rodent?
[05:07:13] <XXCoder> dunno
[05:07:22] <XXCoder> others use meshes and such
[05:07:34] <XXCoder> they damage around 60 cars a year apparently
[05:07:44] <XXCoder> I'd take a vw beetle
[05:07:45] <XXCoder> air cooled.
[05:08:09] <Loetmichel> and pretty much indestructible
[05:08:33] <Loetmichel> "und er läuft und läuft und läuft"
[05:09:37] <Loetmichel> :-)
[05:09:46] <Loetmichel> )
[05:09:52] <XXCoder> I dont read german unbfortunately lol
[05:10:01] <gonzo_> looks more like a diy hover-car
[05:10:42] <Loetmichel> "and it runs and runs and runs"
[05:11:01] <XXCoder> ahh yea
[05:11:11] <XXCoder> I always wanted to make a vw beetle electric car though
[05:11:16] <XXCoder> but not worth it at this time
[05:15:51] <gonzo_> I have an old triumph that would be an ideal candidate for electric. But I'd want to still be able to put the petrol plant back in, within half an hour. Which would take some thought
[05:16:14] <XXCoder> hmm mount rail system
[05:16:17] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: get two trabants, and some velcro
[05:16:18] <XXCoder> detechable front
[05:16:21] <gonzo_> also it would cause all sorts of fun with registering it. As it would not be hybrid
[05:16:39] <XXCoder> gonzo_: know what would be better?
[05:16:44] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: gas trailer
[05:16:45] <XXCoder> add electric generator
[05:17:07] <XXCoder> so its hyrid, since it can run on electric or electric off electricity generator.
[05:17:10] <gonzo_> hehe, well the triumph wings/bonnet all coem off in one, so it's not far off the veocro already!
[05:17:14] <gonzo_> velcro
[05:17:31] <SpeedEvil> Has everyone seen that mini turbocharging thing?
[05:18:02] <XXCoder> no?
[05:18:11] <gonzo_> was thinking of a slide off mount fopr the engine, and a matching electric/battery carrier
[05:18:21] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s
[05:18:34] <SpeedEvil> highly recommended
[05:18:35] <gonzo_> not sure a sports car would suit a trailer!
[05:18:50] <SpeedEvil> Turbocharging an old crap mini
[05:19:37] <gonzo_> saw a V12 mini once. The engien was so bag it had to go in the passenger cab. And it had to be diagonal to leave room for the driver
[05:20:22] <XXCoder> jeez by that point its easier to just build new car
[05:20:26] <gonzo_> driver in full fire suit, with the exhaust manifolds only inches from his head
[05:20:29] <XXCoder> kind of anyway
[05:20:38] <XXCoder> looks like still kinda stock but rusty stuff removbed
[05:20:56] <gonzo_> it was totally undrivable, just done for a laugh
[05:21:15] <gonzo_> if you remove the rust, would there be much left?
[05:21:17] <XXCoder> better than reliant robin im sure gonzo_
[05:22:11] <gonzo_> (the mini I had as a first car, it was only the rust holding it together)
[05:34:04] <XXCoder> cool
[05:34:17] <XXCoder> everyone should own a crappy car in least once
[05:34:30] <XXCoder> mine was toyata camry 1986
[05:35:18] <malcom2073> I had a 1993 Ford Escort wagon
[05:35:59] <archivist> Ford anglia, got wet feet when I went through puddles
[05:44:01] <gonzo_> 1976 mini clubman. Where the footwells filled up wen it rained (4" deep)
[05:45:01] <gonzo_> it was then that I realised why the previous owner had taken the bungs out of the floor and removed the mats etc
[05:46:02] <XXCoder> rust cancer all over eh
[05:46:14] <gonzo_> thought the mat looked a bit odd as I get in. Put mt feet down, mat submerged, water filled shoes.
[05:46:58] <gonzo_> it was a complete heap. Sills were so bad that at one stage, the body sagged so I could not get the doors open.
[05:47:55] <archivist> on my anglia the door pillar rotted through, so could lift the roof relative to floor
[05:48:15] <archivist> I wonder why the brought in MOT tests :)
[05:49:01] <gonzo_> pre 1960 cars are not exempt MoT. Though they still have to be roadworthy
[05:49:36] <XXCoder> dang
[05:49:41] <XXCoder> sag so much cant open doors?
[05:49:54] <XXCoder> even crappy datsun I didnt have that problem
[05:50:03] <gonzo_> I know a few people who drive areound in old land rovers where the chassis is roped to wooden timbers where it's cracked through
[05:50:12] <XXCoder> (it dont count as my first crappy car as I barely used it and it broke down short time later)
[05:50:45] <archivist> I changed my landrover chassis!
[05:51:23] <gonzo_> yep. Did see an austin metro where both sills had been removed for replacement. They came back in the morning to find the thing had just bent in half and they now had a pitched roof
[05:51:46] <archivist> hehe
[05:52:45] <archivist> although the body was 54" and the chassis 56", not too easy to spot the deliberate error
[05:52:56] <gonzo_> I think most of my cars have been crappy.
[05:53:19] <gonzo_> the wheel arches are generaou enough to lose a few inches
[05:53:34] <XXCoder> heh that toyata I had to speed up before hitting hills or I gets stuck in hill
[05:54:01] <XXCoder> i405 at portland to vancouver wa was hell on that car as its a bridge that goes upwards for LONG way
[05:54:09] <XXCoder> or was it i205
[05:54:26] <gonzo_> I had a beaten up old range rover, with a perkins diesel engine, that came from a dumper truck
[05:54:39] <gonzo_> had to start the engine with a lighted rag
[05:55:13] <archivist> the anglia used 1 gal of oil per 100 miles for a while, rebuilt the engine, ran it for a bit before the body gave out, sold the engine
[05:55:18] <gonzo_> great fun seeing peoples faces in the supermatrket car-park
[05:55:50] <archivist> I have a 6354 perkins in the garden :)
[05:56:10] <gonzo_> that's a big old lump
[05:56:25] <XXCoder> my guess is my toyata had 1/4 the power it had when it was new lol
[05:56:33] <archivist> has a 3 phase gen set
[05:57:32] <gonzo_> mine was a 4182, with a miscal'ed pump. So it used to chuck out a mix of unburnt fiel and soot on the people behind
[05:58:03] <gonzo_> on tick over it built up in the exhaust and thew it out on throttle up
[05:58:35] <archivist> a mate put a 3 cyl taxi engine in his landrover
[05:59:10] <gonzo_> great fun when you were in the london commuter belt, with twonks in their top end mercs, sat behind flashing and tooting for you to get going (it only did 45mph as the gearing was still from the petrol engine)
[05:59:19] <archivist> lovely flame from the motorcycle silencer under the front bumper
[05:59:23] <XXCoder> lol
[05:59:44] <XXCoder> gonzo_: whats more fun is a car that SOMETIMES can go 70 mph. and sometimes only to 40 mph
[05:59:48] <XXCoder> bad 4th gear
[06:00:10] <XXCoder> those times I have to pump gas sometimes to get it to kick over and enage 4th gear
[06:01:12] <archivist> my Hilman minx with easydrive automatic box had intermittant faults, so brought the relays inside so I could grab them to get some drive
[06:02:03] <gonzo_> I had no air filter on mine, so I could hold the burning derv soaked rag under the inlet manifold as I cranked it. When I fixed the pre-heat injector, it would spray derv through a reg hot coil. If you didn't start to crank quick enough, it would ignite and a lick of flame came out and under the wheel arch
[06:02:08] <archivist> two iron powder magnetic clutches and solenoid 1st to 2nd
[06:03:36] <gonzo_> and you try and tell the kids of today that, and they won't believe you.....
[06:04:14] <XXCoder> fun
[06:04:24] <XXCoder> I never had to do ghetto hacks like that
[06:05:18] <archivist> the clutch action was to put the dynamo across the first clutch
[06:05:53] <XXCoder> oh heres one fun fact
[06:05:58] <archivist> so it could spin wheels unlike the crappy dry bollick flywheel method
[06:06:01] <XXCoder> if you own a ford contour
[06:06:08] <XXCoder> dont ever let it run out of power
[06:06:14] <XXCoder> you cant even shift when its dead
[06:06:43] <XXCoder> because if its inconviently parked for jump start... too bad.
[06:09:07] <XXCoder> it happened to me
[06:09:15] <XXCoder> car was parked in store area
[06:09:26] <XXCoder> van was opposite it, parked pretty darn close
[06:09:37] <XXCoder> I had hard time getting hood open
[06:09:49] <XXCoder> and other car had to park badly to be close enough
[06:10:14] <gonzo_> a friend had a RR with a dodgy auto box. If he wanted reverse, he had to crawl under and belt the box with a rubber mallet
[06:10:21] <XXCoder> contour cannot be moved when its out of power. period
[06:10:33] <XXCoder> of course it can be dragged into flatbed truck but yeah
[06:10:38] <gonzo_> greta fun in car-parks
[06:10:55] <XXCoder> heh
[06:11:03] <XXCoder> reminds me of dodgy uhaul van we had to use
[06:11:19] <XXCoder> reverse was stripped
[06:11:25] <XXCoder> so I was its "reverse engine"
[06:11:43] <XXCoder> know how hard it is to barely move van thats full of stuff?
[06:12:03] <XXCoder> creative parking meant we only had to do it twice but man
[06:13:54] <archivist> the hilman was cheap because it had a faulty reverse, took the box apart, was absolutely perfect inside, was the bell crank outside the box seized on a pin in the gearbox tunnel
[06:14:04] <XXCoder> nice!
[06:14:23] <XXCoder> my car after that toyata was mecury sable
[06:14:46] <XXCoder> it was owned by old people, man died wife drove it for few years till she heard noises from tranny
[06:15:01] <XXCoder> guy I bought it cheap from said it only needed refull fulid
[06:15:18] <archivist> I am expecting to find the gearbox workshop manual during the loft tidy I am having
[06:15:45] <XXCoder> of course it had many other problems, I had to replace water pump and total new brakes (I was lucky to be alive, brake life was at -%100 front, -50% left back)
[06:15:53] <XXCoder> yes thats negative life left
[06:18:28] <XXCoder> it was worth it anyway. well over 9 years service before dumbass red light run totaled it
[06:27:08] <gonzo_> I had fun last week. Has a 200mile trip after work, to visit the family. On the way in to work that morning, the bearings on the water pump went. Much fun and games to fit a new pump before we could go. Though I'd done that job 18months before, so at least I knew what I was doing
[06:28:24] <gonzo_> but I expect that for most of us in here, that sort of think is just an inconvenience
[06:28:58] <gonzo_> I just can't imagine how the non-mechnaical people in the world cope
[06:29:10] <XXCoder> heh water pump on mecury sable 1988 was a nightmare
[06:29:16] <XXCoder> because its engine is HUGE
[06:29:20] <XXCoder> 3.8l
[06:29:40] <gonzo_> modern cars are just not designed to be maintained.
[06:29:58] <gonzo_> though they will go 100k with little more than oil changes
[06:38:08] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:38:46] <XXCoder> and earlier car is designed to be maintianed - provided you give it blood, sweat and tears lol
[06:43:25] <XXCoder> wel night all
[07:04:29] <archivist> I just sat in the anglia seat....still in the loft
[07:05:09] <archivist> as is the minx front bench seat
[09:35:55] <zeeshan> lmorning
[09:39:51] <zeeshan> wheres all my german friends
[09:40:49] <archivist> having afternoon coffee
[09:43:22] <zeeshan> i ordered something from germany :D
[09:43:30] <zeeshan> some placed called oelch
[09:43:41] <zeeshan> zoelch.. wonder if anyones heard of it :P
[09:43:49] <archivist> not me
[09:47:11] <archivist> found a book today that mentions errors due to the bending of a measuring machine
[09:51:00] <zeeshan> nice
[09:51:41] <archivist> from the late 1920s
[09:53:29] <zeeshan> best books written then :)
[09:53:52] <zeeshan> man i hope this way cover fits
[09:53:57] <zeeshan> paid a lot of money for it
[09:54:27] <zeeshan> its from a mikron wf31c which has 500x500x400 x y z travel
[09:54:35] <zeeshan> mine is 400x400x400
[09:54:50] <zeeshan> visually looks same :)
[10:10:01] <archivist> may need to shorten
[10:10:08] <zeeshan> same z travel
[10:10:21] <zeeshan> i think the z way should be same
[10:10:45] <zeeshan> but the x table that attaches to the z way is different
[10:11:11] <zeeshan> but they are germans
[10:11:19] <zeeshan> and i know they are cost aware, so they likely used the same part!!
[10:12:06] <Sync> nope
[10:12:19] <zeeshan> haha
[10:12:20] <Sync> or the mounting screws are in completely different places
[10:12:31] <zeeshan> i hope not!!
[10:12:41] <Sync> zeeshan: did you see my connectors?
[10:13:24] <zeeshan> no
[10:13:27] <zeeshan> mil spec?
[10:13:52] <zeeshan> man inventor makes me so upset when its dealing with large assemblies
[10:13:54] <zeeshan> its a slow pos
[10:14:00] <zeeshan> every file i open takes a good 5 mins to load
[10:14:03] <zeeshan> enough for me to chat.
[10:14:12] <Sync> http://sync-hv.de/autowagens/autosport.jpg zeeshan
[10:14:15] <archivist> rofl, upgrase to sw
[10:14:42] <zeeshan> sw has its own issues
[10:14:47] <zeeshan> though it'd pick sw anyday
[10:14:53] <archivist> I did a clock in sw
[10:15:25] <archivist> gear mates ftw
[10:15:25] <zeeshan> nice
[10:15:28] <zeeshan> hehe
[10:16:14] <Sync> the pins are amazingly expensive :/
[10:16:23] <zeeshan> a buck a pin
[10:16:33] <zeeshan> i want 2x 50 pin connectors for my firewall
[10:16:38] <zeeshan> asap my japanese manual comes
[10:16:42] <zeeshan> i will get started wiring the car
[10:17:30] <Sync> well, not really 1 buck a pin if you buy a lot, but about that, yeah
[10:17:49] <Sync> if you go for circular connectors, get the proper crimp tool
[10:25:23] <DaPeace> hey guys, how can i use the halui.program.is-idle-signal twice? need to check that signal in 2 situations :-/
[10:27:29] <archivist> define 2 situations
[10:28:48] <DaPeace> i need to check it for the button that enables the spindle so i cant switch the spindle off when machine is running and i need to check it for my start/pause/resume-button
[10:30:29] <archivist> so both sets of logic use the same net
[10:30:39] <DaPeace> yes
[10:30:54] <archivist> and did you try
[10:31:05] <DaPeace> i have halui that gives me the state of the machine and i have 2 buttons i need to check that state
[10:33:38] <MacGyverX> I had a weird issue where after a job completed and I attempted to home the machine, Y Axis attempted to home in the wrong direction. I rebooted the box and it still doing it. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to troubleshoot that?
[10:34:05] <cradek> sounds like the home switch is stuck
[10:34:14] <cradek> use halmeter to check it
[10:34:23] <MacGyverX> As a FYI Y has dual steppers and two drivers.
[10:35:41] <MacGyverX> Its a inductive endstop. When I pass a metal test piece in front of it- it reacts correctly
[10:40:37] <anomynous> what a toy
[10:40:43] <anomynous> this dvd repair machine
[10:40:48] <zeeshan> sync isnt that crimp tool like 300$
[10:40:55] <anomynous> i grinded once and even the light scratches are still there
[10:41:49] <anomynous> hey maybe im supposed to grind it upside down ;)
[10:42:02] <DaPeace> archivist: what sould i try? ^^
[10:42:53] <archivist> DaPeace, I think its just a button programming problem, not sure what you are attempting
[10:43:15] <anomynous> two grinds, still scratched
[10:43:15] <zeeshan> i dont understand the q
[10:43:19] <anomynous> really
[10:43:27] <anomynous> this is a scam... it doesnt do anything
[10:43:29] <zeeshan> you can access an input multiple times
[10:44:09] <Sync> zeeshan:
http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/crimpwerkzeuge/3147607/
[10:44:12] <Sync> + positioner
[10:45:52] <DaPeace> i think i got it…
[10:49:09] <zeeshan> nice sync.
[10:49:12] <zeeshan> $$$$$$
[11:00:04] <zeeshan> sync you should make me a harness :)
[11:00:14] <zeeshan> or let me borrow your crimp tool
[11:18:34] <ssi> morn
[11:19:33] <ssi> zeeshan: I have that crimper as well, plus eight positioners for it in a small pelican case
[11:19:38] <ssi> plus the bigger DMC AF8 crimper
[11:20:29] <zeeshan> lemme broirow
[11:20:31] <zeeshan> when i need :)
[11:20:37] <ssi> feel free
[11:21:49] <zeeshan> i really want a nice connector on the firewall
[11:21:51] <zeeshan> 2 of em.
[11:22:07] <zeeshan> 1 deals with sensitive electronics
[11:22:10] <zeeshan> gauge related stuff
[11:22:22] <zeeshan> the other coil pack firing, battery, ign12+V
[11:22:33] <zeeshan> would make the harness more modular
[11:23:46] <Tom_itx> morning.
[11:23:48] <archivist> you dont want crosstalk for fun?
[11:24:07] <zeeshan> hi tom
[11:24:13] <zeeshan> its afternoon!
[11:24:26] <Tom_itx> no, straight up noon
[11:24:32] <archivist> nearly evening! getting dark already
[11:26:14] <Tom_itx> zeeshan you know SW?
[11:26:48] <Tom_itx> trying to make a plane in space at an odd angle
[11:26:55] <ssi> I had to do that recently
[11:26:59] <ssi> it was a hassle but I made it work
[11:27:17] <Tom_itx> i think i can get it with the same hassle :)
[11:27:24] <archivist> usually just an offset and angle from the origin
[11:27:29] <Tom_itx> just wondered if there was an easy way
[11:27:50] <Tom_itx> it's offset at an angle but it's also offset in X a bit
[11:27:57] <archivist> relative to a sensible plane
[11:28:16] <ssi> lemme open up that part and look at what I did
[11:28:17] <Tom_itx> i'll see if there are more 'offset' options
[11:28:31] <ssi> I basically defined the plane in terms of two references, and one of those references was a line
[11:28:39] <Tom_itx> yeah
[11:28:44] <Tom_itx> 3 points or such
[11:29:01] <ssi> no not 3 points, 3 points defines a plane on its own I think
[11:29:29] <Tom_itx> yeah it does but i dunno if there's a simpler way or not
[11:30:26] <archivist> chose the simplest that suits the job :)
[11:30:45] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTYqX8WXIAESX1E.jpg:large
[11:31:08] <ssi> so it's defined in this case as perpendicular to the front plane and coincident to my line
[11:32:14] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: cmon man
[11:32:17] <zeeshan> you havent seen my resume?!
[11:32:53] <ssi> looks like you can't define a plane with an offset and angle at the nsame time
[11:33:04] <zeeshan> yep you cant
[11:33:07] <zeeshan> gotta do it in 2 steps
[11:33:11] <ssi> plus doing it that way makes it hard for your plane to intersect a particular line
[11:33:20] <zeeshan> unles you use 3 points
[11:33:29] <zeeshan> but then you need to do some math
[11:33:49] <ssi> if you're using sw effectively you shouldn't need any math :)
[11:33:53] <zeeshan> if you REALLY want to do it in 1 ref plane step
[11:33:59] <zeeshan> you need to draw a sketch
[11:34:04] <zeeshan> and use the geometry to generate it
[11:35:26] <zeeshan> son of a
[11:35:30] <zeeshan> i forgot to bring a fork with me
[11:35:34] <zeeshan> :(
[11:35:43] <archivist> forkin ell
[11:35:44] <zeeshan> how will i eat my delicious peas and carrots now
[11:35:50] <ssi> zeeshan: just go to github and create a new one
[11:35:57] <zeeshan> :D
[11:36:02] <ssi> :D
[11:36:17] <zeeshan> im going to eat it cave man style
[11:36:20] <ssi> zeeshan: I got the motor hooked up to the drive last night
[11:36:22] <zeeshan> mouth in plate
[11:36:26] <zeeshan> which one
[11:36:27] <ssi> autophasing is working
[11:36:32] <ssi> it's not tuned right yet though
[11:36:37] <ssi> the one we've been developing
[11:36:41] <ssi> smartserial code is mostly written
[11:36:59] <zeeshan> oh for fanuc brushless
[11:37:02] <ssi> yes
[11:37:09] <ssi> well, for anything you could want
[11:37:11] <zeeshan> yea im not rich enough to afford that
[11:37:12] <zeeshan> :)
[11:37:15] <ssi> wihch includes fanuc brushless
[11:37:26] <zeeshan> but good to know a solution will exist
[11:37:28] <ssi> it supports the kitchen sink pretty much
[11:37:33] <ssi> including sin/cos scales :)
[11:37:37] <ssi> with no interpoalators :)
[11:37:37] <zeeshan> really!
[11:37:44] <ssi> yes
[11:38:00] <ssi> and resolvers
[11:38:00] <zeeshan> will it have the mesa name? :D)
[11:38:04] <ssi> and absolute encoders
[11:38:06] <zeeshan> or ssi name
[11:38:09] <ssi> neither
[11:38:12] <zeeshan> ;[
[11:38:32] <zeeshan> i am hleping my friend whos expanding his shop
[11:38:36] <zeeshan> bring in some equipment
[11:38:42] <zeeshan> he's buying a deckel fp5 for his shop
[11:38:51] <zeeshan> its pretty much the same thing as my machine, but bigger and has a nice atc
[11:38:54] <ssi> Sync is working on a custom breakout for the mesa that'll support five of these drives plus some other goodies
[11:39:02] <zeeshan> get it done before jan!
[11:39:27] <zeeshan> otherwise ill be forced to buy idp101
[11:39:29] <ssi> lol the drive is pretty much done now, I just gotta get the motor tuned
[11:39:43] <ssi> and we have some minor stuff to come up with
[11:39:52] <ssi> like what sort of command value we're gonna send over sserial
[11:40:05] <ssi> right now the plan is to run the drive in pos mode and send motor angle over sserial
[11:40:31] <ssi> so I need to come up with a solution in hal to turn pos-cmd into angle-comand via a units/rev scale value
[11:41:37] <Jymmm> LICK IT
[11:47:34] <zeeshan> canyou send commands over serial fast
[11:47:44] <ssi> 2.5mbit
[11:47:50] <zeeshan> jeez
[11:48:17] <ssi> commands are sent over the wire at the 1khz servo loop rate with plenty of time to spare
[11:48:20] <zeeshan> your machine is gtting closer to running :D
[11:48:23] <ssi> yes
[11:48:38] <ssi> I just need crinq to get home from work and help me get this motor tuned properly :)
[11:48:49] <zeeshan> q for you, since youre really involved in this
[11:49:01] <zeeshan> say you got a servo that can do 4000 rpm peak
[11:49:12] <zeeshan> and its got a quadrature encoder attached to it
[11:49:34] <zeeshan> is the servo thread speed basically a relative to those 2 specs?
[11:49:50] <ssi> no servo thread speed has nothing to do with it
[11:50:10] <zeeshan> tsetd
[11:50:11] <ssi> the servo thread is how often all the calculations are done to come up with your process variables
[11:50:30] <zeeshan> okay so its the loop speed for the pid/ff stuff
[11:50:33] <ssi> yes
[11:50:40] <zeeshan> how do you know what it has to be?
[11:50:58] <zeeshan> sometimes i see in articles we had a 25kHz servo thread speed
[11:50:59] <ssi> 1khz is the default and pretty much everyone uses it
[11:51:03] <zeeshan> why 25khz
[11:51:05] <zeeshan> why not 1khz
[11:51:06] <ssi> in some special cases people use 2 or 4khz
[11:51:13] <ssi> I've never seen a 25khz servo thread
[11:51:18] <ssi> are you thinking of the base thread?
[11:51:18] <zeeshan> i understand it needs to be faster than you're sampling your encoder
[11:51:45] <ssi> base thread needs to be faster than you sample your encoder, or faster than your max pulse rate for steppers
[11:51:47] <zeeshan> maybe
[11:51:51] <ssi> assuming you have no external hardware support
[11:51:53] <zeeshan> see im a bit confused
[11:52:03] <ssi> with mesa hardware, all that stuff happens elsewhere, so there's no base thread
[11:52:16] <ssi> that's why jitter is such a big deal for people who are software stepping
[11:52:22] <zeeshan> if your servo thread is wayyyy faster than your encoder count
[11:52:27] <ssi> at 25khz, jitter is a much bigger factor
[11:52:39] <zeeshan> then you'll get calculations of pid with the exact same encoder position value
[11:52:47] <zeeshan> i hope that makes sense
[11:52:48] <ssi> servo thread is way SLOWER than the encoder count
[11:53:27] <zeeshan> 4000rpm*4 = 16000 rpm = 0.266khz
[11:53:32] <zeeshan> am i doing the calc wrong?
[11:53:46] <Tom_itx> i'd kinda figured drawing 3 points on a sketch was how it was gonna happen
[11:53:46] <zeeshan> er
[11:53:49] <ssi> what's the *4?
[11:53:55] <zeeshan> quadrature
[11:54:04] <zeeshan> i dunno what im doing lol
[11:54:12] <ssi> one line per rev encoder? :)
[11:54:15] <zeeshan> haha
[11:54:19] <ssi> 4000rpm motor with a 3000 line encoder
[11:54:22] <zeeshan> okay fine 4000 lines per encoder
[11:54:22] <ssi> that's 12k counts per rev
[11:54:36] <ssi> 4krpm is 67rps
[11:54:45] <ssi> 800k counts per sec?
[11:54:47] <zeeshan> so 12khz
[11:54:53] <zeeshan> er
[11:55:27] <Tom_itx> shouldn't you be testing some polymer or fusebox somewhere??
[11:55:38] <zeeshan> project manager GET BACK TO WORK!!!
[11:55:38] <ssi> hush tom, he's gotta learn something someday :)
[11:55:39] <zeeshan> :D
[11:55:44] <Tom_itx> hah
[11:56:09] <ssi> I have to seize these rare moments when he's not telling me about some research paper about control theory that said I'm wrong
[11:56:21] <Tom_itx> or some silly car?
[11:56:33] <ssi> the silly car doesn't bother me so much
[11:56:46] <Tom_itx> yeah i can somewhat get into that a bit
[11:57:08] <zeeshan> 804hz
[11:57:11] <zeeshan> khz
[11:57:24] <zeeshan> okay so you made your point its way slower
[11:57:25] <ssi> yeah you're not counting that in software
[11:57:37] <ssi> that's why mach doesn't even servo bruh
[11:57:44] <zeeshan> that makes sense
[11:57:57] <zeeshan> now what about the command
[11:58:03] <Tom_itx> count that in fenceposts and you'd have a car to brag about
[11:58:19] <zeeshan> you always hear parallel port is too slow to send a fast enough step pulse or something
[11:58:26] <zeeshan> like its limited to 16khz
[11:58:30] <ssi> yeah but that's step pulses
[11:58:35] <ssi> step pulses have to be realtime
[11:58:46] <zeeshan> that is based off your gearing, lead screw
[11:58:46] <ssi> again, we offload that to hardware to run faster step rates
[11:58:47] <Tom_itx> encoders should be
[11:58:49] <zeeshan> and steps per rev
[11:58:51] <zeeshan> yea?
[11:59:04] <ssi> yes
[11:59:16] <zeeshan> (i just want to answer properly next time a person asks me why i run a mesa)
[11:59:18] <zeeshan> instead of saying
[11:59:27] <Tom_itx> because it's better
[11:59:28] <zeeshan> cause it is best
[11:59:32] <zeeshan> haha
[11:59:36] <Tom_itx> :)
[11:59:43] <Erant> I can't run a parport either.
[11:59:46] <Tom_itx> it runs typically at 50Mhz
[11:59:52] <Tom_itx> and can parallel process
[11:59:58] <ssi> the speed you can run an axis is limited by the max step rate you can produce based on hardware limits and jitter
[12:00:02] <Erant> 2k lines encoder, 0.05" per rev.
[12:00:06] <Tom_itx> give or take a few tics depending on the card
[12:00:06] <zeeshan> ssi plz tell me how servo thread effects things
[12:00:07] <ssi> scaled by your gearing/leadscrew
[12:00:10] <zeeshan> affects
[12:00:18] <Tom_itx> it's the card refresh rate
[12:00:20] <zeeshan> if its too slow, you aint updating p i d values fast enough
[12:00:24] <ssi> servo thread is simply how fast you calculate all the pv
[12:00:30] <zeeshan> which means you can get silly lame stuff like overdamped
[12:00:34] <zeeshan> random damped!
[12:00:40] <zeeshan> right?
[12:00:48] <zeeshan> thats what i noticed when my loop speed was too slow for my pressure apparatus
[12:00:51] <ssi> yeah it affects the loop bandwidth
[12:01:09] <zeeshan> so why not sample at 250000000000 mhz
[12:01:21] <zeeshan> er loop it not sample it.
[12:01:25] <Tom_itx> it would eat all the time
[12:01:35] <ssi> because there's not enough processor time to do so
[12:01:44] <Tom_itx> you need to be nice and share time
[12:01:44] <zeeshan> okay so basically its like this
[12:01:51] <zeeshan> if you got a 1ghz processor
[12:02:10] <zeeshan> that value must be related to how fast you can run your base thread
[12:02:11] <ssi> basically every bit of math that linuxcnc has to do has to fit within 1/thread ms
[12:02:14] <zeeshan> and servo thread
[12:02:22] <ssi> 1ms for 1khz servo thread
[12:02:47] <pcw_home> The servo thread needs to be fast enough that you have sufficient phase margin to
[12:02:49] <pcw_home> control your drive/mechanics adequately , faster more doesn't help
[12:02:58] <zeeshan> doesn't that make the fanuc controllers superior to linuxcnc
[12:03:00] <pcw_home> -more
[12:03:04] <zeeshan> because they do all their stuff hardware based
[12:03:29] <zeeshan> okay
[12:03:30] <ssi> not necessarily
[12:03:33] <pcw_home> no true, they use DSPs
[12:03:46] <anomynous> donut mills
[12:03:49] <anomynous> lollipop mills
[12:04:00] <anomynous> what are these americans naming their tools like food
[12:04:02] <zeeshan> glad to have knowledgeable people around :)
[12:04:12] <zeeshan> this stuff is hard to figure out when reading books and papers
[12:04:29] <ssi> lol yes where theory hits practice isn't always clean :)
[12:04:30] <Tom_itx> so is blowing polymer bubbles
[12:04:35] <zeeshan> shuddap tom
[12:04:39] <zeeshan> i got good results!
[12:04:43] <pcw_home> you have to say what loop you are talking about the servo thread on the latest hardware is around 4 or 8 KHz
[12:04:44] <zeeshan> i present em today
[12:04:53] <Tom_itx> i know, it's over my pay grade...
[12:04:55] <pcw_home> latest Fanuc hardware
[12:05:13] <pcw_home> their velocity loop is more like 16 or 32 KHz
[12:05:19] <ssi> pcw_home: so what are the symptoms of insufficient phase margin
[12:05:23] <pcw_home> (but thats in the drive)
[12:05:26] <zeeshan> the velocity loop is faster because
[12:05:29] <zeeshan> why
[12:05:33] <zeeshan> more encoder line counts?
[12:05:40] <ssi> zeeshan: stiffness I think?
[12:05:53] <zeeshan> i know their new stuff has like a crap load of lines
[12:06:02] <ssi> their new stuff is probably serial encoders
[12:06:15] <ssi> I don't think you have to sample nearly as fast to deal with them
[12:06:17] <pcw_home> current,velocity,position required bandwidth goes down at each step
[12:06:39] <anomynous> oh it was a toroid mill. I read donut mill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mLntJWkTs
[12:07:02] <pcw_home> Yeah even their fairly recent stuff cannot be sampled very fast (nor does it need to be)
[12:07:29] <zeeshan> why does it not need to be sampled fast
[12:07:59] <ssi> zeeshan: serial encoders
[12:08:04] <pcw_home> Because the electrical/mechnical bandwidth is the limitation, not the control
[12:08:24] * zeeshan looks up serial encoders
[12:09:16] <zeeshan> SSI was originally developed by Max Stegmann GMBH in 1984 for transmitting the position data of absolute encode
[12:09:49] <ssi> that's me :)
[12:09:49] <pcw_home> basically the control is steering the Queen Mary (the mechanics) with little pushes and tugs
[12:09:49] <zeeshan> i didnt know you were developed by a german company ssi!
[12:09:57] <ssi> explains so much doesn't it?
[12:10:03] <ssi> except they got it wrong, I was originally developed in 1981
[12:10:32] <zeeshan> okay i see whats going on
[12:10:36] <ssi> I suppose technically I was developed in 1980, but the first release was '81
[12:10:36] <zeeshan> instead of doing the counting 1 by 1
[12:10:42] <pcw_home> lack of phase margin equatea to lower stable gain so lower performance
[12:10:48] <pcw_home> equates
[12:10:51] <zeeshan> you got a microcontroller on one end doing it, and then sending a data pulse
[12:10:54] <zeeshan> to another device
[12:11:03] <zeeshan> removing the need to transmit each pulse to the controller
[12:11:05] <ssi> pcw_home: so with more phase margin (ie faster loop speed), you can run higher gains without oscillation?
[12:11:08] <zeeshan> each count i mean
[12:11:14] <ssi> zeeshan: you got it
[12:11:19] <pcw_home> Yes
[12:11:26] <zeeshan> so thats your problem
[12:11:30] <zeeshan> bastard fanuc data pulse
[12:11:35] <ssi> zeeshan: no, that's not my problem :)
[12:11:39] <ssi> my problem is different
[12:11:39] <zeeshan> okay :P
[12:11:44] <ssi> I have incremental encoders
[12:11:47] <zeeshan> i should say, was your problem :)
[12:11:48] <ssi> my problem is the way they do commutation
[12:12:14] <ssi> and yes the autophasing stuff seems to work so I think I'm out of the commutation game :)
[12:12:21] <anomynous> fusion 360 should start working in linux during 2016 via a browser thing
[12:12:28] <ssi> anomynous: sounds gross
[12:12:32] <anomynous> really?
[12:12:38] <Tom_itx> yeah really
[12:12:38] <ssi> browser based apps are never fun :P
[12:12:41] <anomynous> at least it would work
[12:12:42] <anomynous> ;D
[12:12:53] <zeeshan> my friend was explaining how awesome cloud is
[12:12:55] <zeeshan> using onshape
[12:13:00] <anomynous> ssi, well, fusion360 is in infancy still, or so it feel
[12:13:02] <anomynous> s
[12:13:10] <anomynous> clumsy
[12:13:11] <zeeshan> im like hi, you do know what youre describing has been around in autodesk vault
[12:13:12] <ssi> I had no luck with it
[12:13:16] <zeeshan> and pdm works for decades? :)
[12:13:20] <zeeshan> CLOUD BABY!!
[12:13:21] <anomynous> what do you mean
[12:13:21] <zeeshan> yea!!
[12:13:25] <anomynous> ssi
[12:13:27] <ssi> it was unusably slow
[12:13:31] <anomynous> ah
[12:13:35] <ssi> on fast modern hardware with a slow network
[12:13:39] <anomynous> memory or cpu?
[12:13:44] <ssi> I don't know if the network speed actually was causing the problem
[12:13:44] <Tom_itx> especially with anything of any size
[12:13:45] <anomynous> :o
[12:13:54] <ssi> I haven't been able to test on fast network
[12:14:02] <ssi> but if network speed impacts your workflow, that's poor software
[12:14:22] <ssi> I once worked for a company that did payment card stuff
[12:14:41] <ssi> because of pci reqs, we ran everything on a couple windows terminal servers in a data center
[12:14:46] <ssi> and all our desktops were thin clients
[12:14:53] <ssi> data center was eight miles away
[12:14:57] <ssi> but we couldn't get real internet in the office
[12:15:04] <ssi> so we worked over a bunch of clear wireless modems
[12:15:29] <ssi> you don't know pain until you try to write software on a thin client whose display is coming over bad wireless from a terminal server, then you're shelled into a linux box trying to write code
[12:15:33] <ssi> and every keystroke takes 15s
[12:15:47] <ssi> it's impossible to type accurately without local echo :P
[12:16:20] <ssi> s/impossible/massively impractical/ for all my pedants in the hizzouse
[12:16:24] <Tom_itx> use really short var names
[12:17:49] <Tom_itx> oh.. one other SW q. does it have an easy way to do draft angles for molds etc?
[12:18:00] <ssi> I believe so but I've never used it
[12:18:02] <Tom_itx> bend allowance etc
[12:18:16] <ssi> it definitely does bend allowance in the sheet metal tools
[12:18:30] <ssi> yeah there's a draft feature
[12:18:33] <archivist> yes has sheet metal bending and draft angles
[12:18:34] <ssi> to the right of linear pattern
[12:18:51] <ssi> make a plane that represents your parting line and it'll create the draft from that
[12:18:53] <zeeshan> yes tom
[12:18:58] <zeeshan> also you can extrude with a draft
[12:19:19] <ssi> I never knew wtf any of that was until I got into casting :)
[12:19:21] <archivist> also where stuff is depends on version and where you put the tool bars
[12:19:42] <ssi> draft feature is in the same toolbar as all the other features
[12:19:43] <zeeshan> nub
[12:19:43] <zeeshan> !
[12:19:49] <zeeshan> just like im a nub with electrons
[12:20:11] <zeeshan> tell me now QUICK!
[12:20:14] <ssi> yes I've never claimed to be anything like experienced with machining or many other aspects of fabrication :)
[12:20:15] <zeeshan> which is the cope
[12:20:16] <zeeshan> and drag
[12:20:19] <zeeshan> TOP OR BOTTOM!
[12:20:20] <zeeshan> NOW!
[12:20:23] <ssi> top
[12:20:33] <zeeshan> i forgot myself.
[12:20:33] <zeeshan> :)
[12:20:48] <zeeshan> the way i always have to remember it
[12:20:52] <ssi> I would be able to remember if i knew why they were named that way
[12:20:54] <zeeshan> is drag is the bottom cause it drags on the ground
[12:21:02] <zeeshan> but i have no idea why its called cope
[12:21:13] * SpeedEvil mehs.
[12:21:17] <ssi> because the top mold copes around the part when you part down?
[12:21:21] * SpeedEvil has come to the end of the mini-rebuild marathon.
[12:21:24] <zeeshan> it sounds like a british terminology
[12:21:27] <zeeshan> i guarantee you it.
[12:21:31] <zeeshan> -a
[12:21:33] <ssi> prbobaly
[12:21:51] <ssi> dammit
[12:21:57] <ssi> fallout four comes out tomorrow
[12:22:06] <ssi> and my buddy's shipped over the weekend, and he had it held by ups
[12:22:11] <ssi> and picked it up this morning
[12:22:12] <ssi> hax
[12:22:24] <ssi> mine's in chattanooga on the way :'(
[12:22:44] <zeeshan> no wonder mill isnt done yet
[12:22:48] <zeeshan> wasting time on video games
[12:22:52] <zeeshan> :D
[12:22:55] <ssi> haven't wasted time on video games yet
[12:22:59] <ssi> but yes, tomorrow that starts :)
[12:23:10] <ssi> I don't do many games but this is on the list
[12:23:31] <zeeshan> only games i wqasted my life on
[12:23:40] <zeeshan> are quakew1, quake 3 , quake 4
[12:23:46] <zeeshan> and cod mw2
[12:23:46] <ssi> no quake 2?!
[12:23:49] <zeeshan> no
[12:23:50] <zeeshan> too slow :P
[12:23:53] <ssi> q2 was the best
[12:24:06] <zeeshan> the new doom makes me want to get back into it
[12:24:08] <zeeshan> but man so many hours wasted
[12:24:11] <zeeshan> days and years
[12:24:14] <ssi> I never played q4 I don't think
[12:24:18] <ssi> and mw2 was good
[12:24:18] <zeeshan> up till 5am
[12:24:25] <ssi> I played a lot of counterstrike for awhile
[12:24:28] <ssi> in the late 90s :P
[12:24:30] <zeeshan> oh i did too!
[12:24:32] <zeeshan> 1.6
[12:24:34] <zeeshan> haha.
[12:24:42] <zeeshan> awp!
[12:24:46] <ssi> I bet you always plaed terrorists didn't you
[12:24:50] <zeeshan> hahaha
[12:24:51] <zeeshan> no!
[12:25:02] <ssi> </racist>
[12:25:23] <zeeshan> i wonder if the new games are computer heavy
[12:25:30] <ssi> probably :P
[12:25:40] <ssi> it's like closet space
[12:25:47] <ssi> make a faster computer and the games will eat it up
[12:25:52] <ssi> on stupid crap like specular reflections :)
[12:26:04] <ssi> I'm probably dating myself horribly there huh
[12:26:15] <Tom_itx> oh i see it there now.. thanks
[12:26:21] <ssi> Tom_itx: the draft button?
[12:26:28] <Tom_itx> yes
[12:26:35] <Tom_itx> never ever used it
[12:26:39] <ssi> zeeshan: my masterpiece is nearly finished
[12:26:41] <ssi> zeeshan:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTQgXj2WEAAHzxz.jpg:large
[12:27:01] <zeeshan> nice
[12:27:17] <ssi> I need to cut the bottom of that wrench tray off
[12:27:17] <zeeshan> tom do you know about the temporary axis feature
[12:27:31] <ssi> you can't see it in the pic but it's just got allen wrenches, laid out all space-consumingly
[12:27:49] <zeeshan> must be nice owning those snapon tools!
[12:27:51] * zeeshan want
[12:28:01] <ssi> you have a job, you can has
[12:28:10] <zeeshan> need moneys for other things
[12:28:11] <zeeshan> ;[
[12:28:15] <ssi> I have a spare full set of wrenches 1/4-1" and a spare set of angle wrenches that I'll sell
[12:28:23] <zeeshan> sell to me cheap!
[12:28:28] <ssi> cheapish
[12:28:32] <ssi> 'bout half list
[12:28:39] <FinboySlick> ssi: I'd be jealous, but knowing myself... Those tools would be all over the shop after a week, and 10% would be lost already :P
[12:28:40] <zeeshan> 1/4 list
[12:28:41] <zeeshan> :-
[12:28:43] <zeeshan> jk
[12:28:49] <ssi> FinboySlick: that's part of the reason I bought tem
[12:28:59] <ssi> FinboySlick: I have a thing in my brain that makes me keep expensive stuff nice for longer :)
[12:29:05] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, no
[12:29:11] <zeeshan> view, temporary axis
[12:29:15] <ssi> I bought a snapon ratching screwdriver for $100 in 2008 and I still know exactly where it is
[12:29:36] <Tom_itx> what's that used for?
[12:29:49] <ssi> ok I'mma go get a breffus and I'll be back
[12:30:06] <Tom_itx> lil late on the schedule today?
[12:30:47] <Jymmm> ssi: black handle, 5 tips stored in the handle?
[12:30:58] <Tom_itx> all that did was highlite all the centerlines
[12:31:26] <Jymmm> ssi: I bought that one eons ago when it very first came out for $50 =)
[12:36:34] <CaptHindsight> http://glassprinted.com/ linuxcnc controlled
[12:36:36] <Tom_itx> ahh i figured the plane thing out i think
[12:39:09] <CaptHindsight> no pics of the printer yet, just the crucible and nozzle
[13:10:30] <Erant> I'm using some cheap chinese timing belt components for my z axis, but they look to be a little eccentric. Any recommendations for where to get some low backlash timing belt components?
[13:19:12] <ssi> Erant: you in the us?
[13:20:15] <ssi> hm nice
[13:20:15] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016I7ZGWK
[13:20:44] <jdh> sdp-si
[13:21:16] <Deejay> re
[13:23:58] <ssi> hey Mr. Deejay, I thought you said we had a deal
[13:24:13] <Deejay> hm?
[13:24:19] <CaptHindsight> Erant: can you increase the tension on the timing belt? That should lower the lash.
[13:24:27] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d447hxwdSo8
[13:26:55] <Erant> ssi: Yah
[13:27:07] <ssi> I usually just get timing belt stuff from mcmaster
[13:27:18] <ssi> not the cheapest but it's good quality stuff and it's quick
[13:27:20] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Yeah, but because they're eccentric it's tight in one position, not so tight in another.
[13:27:34] <Erant> I guess I could just put a springloaded tensioner on it
[13:28:07] <Erant> ssi: I was already browsing their stuff, yeah.
[13:28:13] <CaptHindsight> Erant: eccentric pulleys? nice
[13:29:02] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Yeah, slightly. Not much. Just enough to feel it bind slightly every turn.
[13:29:29] <CaptHindsight> smell the quality :)
[13:29:35] <Erant> Probably good enough for those 3D printers.
[13:29:49] <Erant> But my set up is probably far more rigid than that.
[14:06:23] <R2E4> hi all
[14:07:02] <SpeedEvil> hi
[14:09:41] <R2E4> I am trying to drive two motors with the same pos-cmd, and one servo just turns contiuosly until it hits the ferror.
[14:10:16] <R2E4> I swapped the motor and encoder to the other ports on the 7i77 to see if it is the hal or the moptor drivers.
[14:10:59] <R2E4> and the problem is in my hal I think.
[14:11:46] <R2E4> I pastebin`d it but pastebin removed it...lol
[14:18:08] <CaptHindsight> R2E4: did you check the box to save the paste to pastebin for a day or two?
[14:18:30] <CaptHindsight> i think it will save a file for up to a month
[14:20:30] <R2E4> http://pastebin.com/iz4EX38n
[14:20:52] <R2E4> That oen I dide...lol
[14:23:01] <R2E4> http://pastebin.com/HwZme2t6
[14:23:07] <R2E4> Theres the ini
[14:32:33] <CaptHindsight> http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h108/KBattenbough/o14.jpg
[14:32:42] <R2E4> http://pastebin.com/bdUU9QmC
[14:32:48] <R2E4> Thats the good hal
[14:32:48] <CaptHindsight> http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h108/KBattenbough/o15.jpg
[14:34:37] <R2E4> What lathe is thatÉ
[14:34:49] <R2E4> Someone build that
[14:35:02] <CaptHindsight> dunno, slightly custom
[14:36:33] <CaptHindsight> pretty rigid, the frame is 5 separate pieces
[14:37:42] <CaptHindsight> I was just looking at how to square it all
[14:43:07] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Yeah, I just measured the Z-Axis, and the eccentricity is like .3% (As in, when I jog the axis .1in, it actually moves anywhere between 0.097in and 0.1in)
[14:43:20] <Erant> Actually, that means 3%, damn.
[14:54:19] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I was going to say, that looks sturdy.
[15:08:16] <XXCoder> wow
[15:08:53] <XXCoder> isnt .003 quite large movement error?
[15:11:27] <CaptHindsight> depends but it is 10X less than 3%
[15:12:05] <XXCoder> it was orginially 3%?
[15:12:23] <CaptHindsight> .003 light years is quite a significant error :)
[15:12:31] <ssi> .003mm not so much
[15:12:32] <XXCoder> lol
[15:15:50] <R2E4> Can someone look at my hal file and see if anything jumps oput at them thats wrong? I am trying to drive both the Y and the A axis from the Y input.
http://pastebin.com/bdUU9QmC
[15:18:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20151106-ibox-printers-launches-macro-resin-3d-printer-that-prints-in-carbon-fiber.html but omits that it only prints with shorts strand carbon fiber resin
[15:18:43] <CaptHindsight> shorts/short
[15:21:13] <_methods> i just saw some funny 3d printing thing
[15:21:16] <_methods> see if i can find it
[15:21:50] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: but it shows non-carbon fiber stuff printed
[15:22:01] <XXCoder> engine block, bunny so on
[15:22:13] <CaptHindsight> oh yeah it prints those as well
[15:22:15] <_methods> https://laughingsquid.com/artist-makes-3d-printed-cat-armor-for-his-brave-feline-named-bobo/
[15:22:42] <CaptHindsight> heh cat armor
[15:22:56] <_methods> perfect use for 3d printing technology lol
[15:23:01] <XXCoder> bobo the barbarian
[15:23:10] <CaptHindsight> _methods: did you see the 3d printed toilet paper guard for cats?
[15:23:17] <_methods> no lol
[15:23:34] <XXCoder> I wonder how guy modeled it
[15:23:35] <_methods> do cats have something against toilet paper?
[15:23:44] <XXCoder> yes
[15:23:47] <CaptHindsight> apparently
[15:23:54] <XXCoder> ask em for why though
[15:23:55] <_methods> have no idea
[15:23:58] <CaptHindsight> they just don't like it rolled up
[15:23:59] <_methods> i'm a dog person
[15:24:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20151106-protect-your-toilet-paper-from-cat-attacks-with-this-3d-printed-toilet-paper-guard.html
[15:24:26] <_methods> i think a lot of 3d printer people are cat people
[15:24:40] <_methods> they print a lot of vases too
[15:24:43] <XXCoder> wow thats pretty large car
[15:24:45] <XXCoder> cat
[15:24:56] <_methods> so i'm assuming the 3d printer community is full of a lot of same sex relationships
[15:25:03] <CaptHindsight> I think Yoda lovers
[15:25:06] <_methods> hehe
[15:25:15] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: also loves Hulk
[15:25:21] <XXCoder> hmm both green...
[15:25:56] <CaptHindsight> "don't let your cat go into battle without it"
[15:26:01] <_methods> lol
[15:26:25] <CaptHindsight> Battle Cats coming this fall on Fox
[15:26:53] <CaptHindsight> 4 cats go in only 1 comes out
[15:27:16] <_methods> cat fighting is ok?
[15:28:08] <CaptHindsight> I think it's ok if it raises cancer awareness or was it domestic violence or similar
[15:28:22] <PCW> R2E4: if one axis runs away that suggests trouble with feedback ( maybe encoder backwards )
[15:42:48] <R2E4> PCW: thats what I thought also, but earlier I did an XYZ config and used my x motor for X, Y motor for Y and my other Y motor for Z, and it worked. Its only a problem when I use 4 joints.
[15:43:24] <R2E4> I also checked the encoders and they seem to be correct. It react like it should in XYZ config
[15:44:43] <R2E4> it only does this when I create a 4 joint config
[15:48:01] <PetefromTn_> Hey folks
[15:48:02] <PCW> well if A runs away that pretty much has to be an error with feedback (you really dont have a 4 joint config just 3 with two servos)
[15:48:03] <PCW> This should be pretty easy to trace by watching the A and Y axis encoders and PID outputs
[15:50:47] <R2E4> What I am saying is I redid the config as a standard XYZ, redid the hal and ini. I dont have a z motor on it, but I plugged the Z motor and encoder where I configured the Z so I had three motors and encoders as XYZ and they all worked fine.
[15:55:38] <Erant> XXCoder: Yeah, it's pretty bad. Unpredictable too.
[15:57:26] <Erant> I'm just going to buy some better ones. These were cheap Chinese ones. Didn't think they'd be that bad...
[15:59:36] <Erant> Luckily I don't have anything queued up that needs 0.003" accuracy in Z.
[16:00:14] <XXCoder> whew but yeah need to be fixed if you do jobs that axcurate
[16:03:00] <Erant> McMaster Carr has a bunch. Just gotta find a set that works for one metric and one imperial shaft.
[16:04:14] <Erant> But all in all, CNC conversion's a success :) Very valuable help in here.
[16:06:07] <XXCoder> awesome. :) did you post pictures?
[16:07:13] <Erant> Not yet, I should. I have some. Sec
[16:08:01] <XXCoder> ok
[16:17:31] <Erant> http://imgur.com/a/ewJuU
[16:17:35] <Erant> In no particular order.
[16:17:53] <Sync> zeeshan: we actually have an universal interpolation thing in the pipeline
[16:18:19] <XXCoder> cool :)
[16:18:39] <XXCoder> looks like leadscrews
[16:18:42] <XXCoder> or acme
[16:18:55] <Erant> Trapezoidal
[16:18:55] <PetefromTn_> looks good erant but you might want to keep those trons away from the chips a bit ;)
[16:19:05] <Erant> PetefromTn_: Yah, I had a shield up
[16:19:06] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:19:22] <Erant> The drive wouldn't be too happy with the chips either ;)
[16:19:41] <PetefromTn_> they kinda don't play well together ask me how I know :D
[16:19:42] <Erant> I have to make permanent shields and enclosures for the drives.
[16:19:53] <XXCoder> I need that too
[16:20:00] <XXCoder> mines crappy cardboard boxes
[16:20:06] <XXCoder> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc%20router/20151108_154059.jpg
[16:20:13] <Erant> Mount the PSUs on a DIN rail behind the mill, shield in front of it.
[16:20:56] <Erant> I'm going to mill mine out of 3/8" ABS and then thermoform
[16:21:09] <XXCoder> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc%20router/20151108_154042.jpg
[16:21:35] <Erant> And use acrylic for the PSU shield
[16:22:05] <Erant> XXCoder: Nice. Mine were covered with shop rags.
[16:22:14] <XXCoder> Erant: I removed the clamp for spindle but otherwise complete
[16:22:32] <XXCoder> I plan to do test cuts fairly soon, once I figure how to move it to garage
[16:22:53] <Erant> Is that a 3040?
[16:23:16] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:23:33] <Erant> How is it treating you? I thought about that one.
[16:23:53] <Erant> But then I caved and got something that gave me at least the potential of cutting mild steel.
[16:24:08] <XXCoder> frame is okay so far. the electrics kit sucks but I didnt buy it together so I dont know how good complete kit would be,
[16:26:57] <Erant> I'll be intrigued to hear how well it handles metal.
[16:27:03] <XXCoder> me too.
[16:27:05] <XXCoder> laters
[16:27:12] <XXCoder> I plan to primiarly work with wood
[16:28:07] <Erant> This guy can't handle the heavy cuts, but it does a 1/2" end mill 0.15" WOC full DOC at 3-4ipm. Which is pitiful compared to the big mills, but those would fill up half my workspace ;P
[16:30:44] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5305927156.html anyone ever heard of an edlund lathe? Looks decent even tho its broken
[16:37:52] <Jymmm> Well, it's snowing...
[16:38:08] <PetefromTn_> no kidding!
[16:38:16] <PetefromTn_> where are you?
[16:38:22] <Jymmm> NorCal
[16:38:42] <PetefromTn_> anywhere near sacto?
[16:38:57] <Jymmm> 3 hours norht of sac
[16:39:07] <PetefromTn_> ok
[16:41:27] <Jymmm> I need to grab more firewood so it'll be dried out for tomorrow...
[16:44:24] <Erant> Yeah, it was pouring in SF earlier.
[16:54:55] <PetefromTn_> well I had to go to an eye doctor this afternoon because of the metal I got in my eye :(
[16:56:12] <PetefromTn_> lots of fun having to have your eyeball drilled on with a dremel ;)
[16:57:12] <Deejay> gn8
[17:21:30] <_methods> ah so you didn't get it all out
[17:21:33] <_methods> that sux
[17:23:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah apparently not it still kinda felt like there was something in there this morning so I made the appt.
[17:23:36] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: please post pics of your winter wonderland
[17:23:41] <PetefromTn_> he actually told me it was not metal tho
[17:23:56] <PetefromTn_> he said it looked like tiny white pieces of something
[17:24:29] <PetefromTn_> he said if it was metal it would typically have a tiny rust ring around the edges but there was none just the tiny white specks
[17:25:06] <PetefromTn_> but it had to come out so now I have a bandaid style contact lens and some drops for the next few days every four hours
[17:25:47] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf60Oe0__A0 hard to believe that is a suzuki katana LOL
[17:29:28] <ssi> I never know how to answer these questions correctly, any of you have any insight?
[17:29:33] <ssi> Under which conditions will the rate of flow of a liquid through a metering orifice (or jet) be the greatest (all other factors being equal)?
[17:29:44] <ssi> A) Unmetered pressure, 18 PSI; metered pressure, 17.5 PSI; atmospheric pressure, 14.5 PSI
[17:29:49] <ssi> B) Unmetered pressure, 17 PSI; metered pressure, 5 PSI; atmospheric pressure, 14.7 PSI.
[17:29:58] <ssi> there's a C but I can't see it cause I alread graded it :P
[17:31:02] <CaptHindsight> Newtonian fluid?
[17:31:12] <ssi> I imagine so
[17:32:39] <ssi> C)Unmetered pressure, 23 PSI; metered pressure, 12 PSI; atmospheric pressure, 14.3 PSI.
[17:32:42] <ssi> there's the other anwser
[17:32:52] <ssi> I just have no intuition as to what's the right answer
[17:33:02] <ssi> OH
[17:33:04] <Sync> greatest pressure differential
[17:33:06] <ssi> yeah
[17:33:14] <ssi> that was what I was thinking when I guessed A
[17:33:19] <ssi> but I was thinking highest output pressure
[17:33:21] <ssi> that's not right
[17:33:32] <Sync> yup
[17:33:38] <Sync> deltaP
[17:38:11] <jdh> with gases, you get choked flow if the pressure differential isn't ~2x
[17:38:18] <CaptHindsight> you're driving a bus measuring the rate of flow ......
[17:50:24] <ssi> As weighed, the total empty weight of an aircraft is 5,862 pounds with a moment of 885,957. However, when the aircraft was weighed, 20 pounds of alcohol were on board at +84, and 23 pounds of hydraulic fluid were in a tank located at +101. What is the empty weight CG of the aircraft?
[17:50:31] <ssi> damn sounds like someone's getting ready for a party
[17:52:40] <jdh> we did those in 'Aerospace Science' in 10th grade
[17:52:54] <ssi> I'm taking my A&P general written in the morning :P
[17:53:00] <ssi> there's a smattering of W&B questions on there
[17:53:08] <jdh> cool
[17:53:08] <ssi> I'm just loling at the 20 pounds of alcohol on board
[17:53:15] <jdh> de-icing?
[17:53:21] <ssi> yeah probably but my way is way funnier :)
[17:53:37] <ssi> that's a tricky question because the alcohol doesn't get counted as part of the weight and balance, but the hydraulic fluid DOES
[17:53:53] <ssi> so they're more testing your knowledge of the regs of W&B than the ability to calculate moments
[17:54:34] <jdh> why isn't ti counted?
[17:54:55] <ssi> because it's considered part of the airframe
[17:56:26] <jdh> why is it part of the air frame
[17:56:46] <ssi> because it's not consumable?
[17:57:00] <ssi> I don't know what exactly you're asking me for :)
[17:57:12] <ssi> it's considered part of the airframe in a way that fuel is not
[18:02:06] <jdh> includes fixed ballast, full engine coolant, hydraulic and de-icing fluid
[18:02:37] <jdh> it's on the internette in some context, it must be true (or false)
[18:03:01] <ssi> I don't know for sure whether deicing fluid is included, but I do know the question didn't say deicing fluid, it said alcohol
[18:03:14] <ssi> and if you do the math with the alcohol included, the answer you get isn't an option :)
[18:03:40] <jdh> that's why good test takers are good at tests
[18:03:49] <ssi> lol
[18:04:02] <ssi> the faa tests are a good measure of your ability to take tests
[18:04:03] <ssi> not much else
[18:04:06] <ssi> most people memorize them
[18:04:15] <ssi> they're frequently ambiguous, and occasionally wrong
[18:04:28] <jdh> that teacher I had died a few months ago.
[18:05:26] <jdh> there were two that were pilots. bet that is less likely today
[18:22:22] <ChuangTzu_> ssi: are you also a pilot?
[18:25:11] <ssi> es
[18:25:13] <ssi> yes
[18:25:40] <ssi> and a homebuilder. getting my A&P mostly because I can
[18:25:54] <_methods> and amateur arsonist
[18:26:06] <_methods> ;)
[18:26:12] <ssi> and a moderately successful one at that!
[18:26:19] <_methods> heheh
[18:26:44] <ChuangTzu_> ssi: i want to build a plane some day, and get my A&P after that
[18:26:53] <ChuangTzu_> i'm also a pretty good arsonist
[18:26:54] <ChuangTzu_> :P
[18:26:57] <ssi> do it
[18:27:21] <ssi> I'd talk more (I can talk about airplanes for hours), but I gotta run out and spend some money and eat some dinner before it's too late :)
[18:27:24] <ssi> bbiab
[18:28:49] <ChuangTzu_> sounds like a plan
[18:39:39] <jdh> I'm pretty good at spending money
[18:43:06] <jdh> http://amzn.com/B000EFJQ2O
[18:43:35] <jdh> those are pretty amazing for cleaning grease, crud, etc off things, especially off hands.
[19:06:32] <R2E4> Thanks PCW , its working.
[19:06:47] <R2E4> error 18
[19:28:22] <zeeshan> i use worx powder
[19:28:24] <zeeshan> its amazing
[19:30:37] <duc> Not sure a package from south Korea arrives before a package from Colorado. Both were ordered the same day
[19:32:10] <duc> Not sure how.
[19:46:56] <petefromtn> LOL I couldn't find the remote control for my home stereo and did not feel like digging around for it so I remembered that it has a cellphone ap
[19:47:41] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:47:47] <malcom2073> spent three hours avoiding walking 5 ft to the stereo :P
[19:48:09] <petefromtn> So I opened it and started playing with it. Never realized it could stream every song in my phone thru the ap.....kickass LOL LOL
[19:48:17] <malcom2073> Nice
[19:48:57] <petefromtn> This thing is so cool and can almost do anything the remote can
[19:50:06] <petefromtn> Actually I had my eye sawed on today so I am kinda laying around and don't really feel like digging for it hehe
[19:50:24] <malcom2073> Oh?
[19:50:29] <malcom2073> Did there turn out to be metal in it?
[19:51:33] <petefromtn> No actually the doctor said it was some kind of hard white material
[19:51:58] <petefromtn> Sucks
[19:54:38] <_methods> this ant-man movie is pretty funny
[19:55:49] <petefromtn> Antboy?
[19:56:15] <_methods> no ant-man
[19:56:30] <petefromtn> Huh never heard of that
[19:56:50] <_methods> the marvel movie
[19:57:43] <petefromtn> Hehe I'm livin under a rock over here
[19:59:55] <petefromtn> The drops they gave me partially dilate my eye so one is bright and the other is normal....funky
[20:13:49] <Tom_itx> don't cook your retina
[20:14:04] <petefromtn> Hehe
[20:14:24] <Tom_itx> bad enough slingin sheet in it... don't cook it too
[20:14:51] <Tom_itx> they do that every time i get an eye check
[20:15:51] <petefromtn> I got a towel over my head and rockin with some Rush!! Neal Peart is a God...
[20:16:16] <Tom_itx> yeah i kinda like them
[20:16:51] <petefromtn> My favorite album is Hold your fire
[20:17:45] <Tom_itx> i only have one or two and can't remember which they are
[20:18:19] <Tom_itx> not one i copied to my phone..
[20:18:31] <petefromtn> I have most of them I think
[20:18:46] <Tom_itx> roll the bones is one iirc
[20:18:55] <petefromtn> All my music is in my phone
[20:19:04] <Tom_itx> most of mine is
[20:19:07] <Tom_itx> not all
[20:19:33] <petefromtn> Which mAkes this app really sweet
[20:19:49] <petefromtn> Even shows album art etc.
[20:20:37] <Sync> reminds me of my grandpa, he had retina delamination so he got fluorescent stuff injected
[20:20:40] <petefromtn> I wish I had realized it could do this earlier I would have been using it all along
[20:21:16] <petefromtn> Sync you callin me a grandpa;)
[20:21:50] <Sync> nah
[20:22:06] <Sync> but it was funny, when he had it, his pupils were super dilated
[20:22:09] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:22:42] <petefromtn> It's really weird having one eye only done
[20:23:35] <Sync> my dad has some fucked up phase twist
[20:23:58] <Sync> and most opticians get it wrong
[20:24:00] <petefromtn> What's that like
[20:24:08] <Sync> so he sees sharp, but it feels wrong
[20:24:54] <petefromtn> I've also never worn a contact lens before
[21:01:31] <CaptHindsight> As weighed, the total empty weight of an aircraft is 5,862 pounds with a moment of 885,957. Next to the aircraft are 5,862 pounds of feathers and 5,862 pounds of bricks. Which one is heavier?
[21:03:04] <petefromtn> 5862 pounds of cheesecake
[21:03:59] <CaptHindsight> eat 1 pound of cheescake and yet gain 2 pounds or something like that
[21:06:47] <Tom_itx> leverage
[21:10:55] <petefromtn> At least especially when it is my wife Dacia's World Famous Cheesecake ;)
[21:12:53] <CaptHindsight> so cheescake isn't a yankee cake?
[21:13:33] <petefromtn> Who says we are not yankees
[21:14:54] <petefromtn> Well okay a north Californian doesn't could I guess
[21:16:25] <CaptHindsight> https://redclayandroses1.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/mjcityzm.jpg
[21:16:32] <CaptHindsight> depends on the map
[21:18:02] <CaptHindsight> LOL
http://civilwartalk.com/attachments/994915_10151511758630667_1436907680_n-png.18896/
[21:18:51] <petefromtn> Man watching Star Trek with one dilated eyeball is kinda like watching a movie with a broken paid of 3D glasses
[21:19:17] <CaptHindsight> should wear off by the mornin
[21:19:37] <petefromtn> That last one makes me nauseous
[21:19:54] <Tom_itx> have a few drinks and it'll get even fuzzier
[21:19:55] <CaptHindsight> I saw one that was a Russian telecine copy
[21:20:27] <CaptHindsight> I think someone got up in the next row during one scene
[21:20:57] <petefromtn> Unfortunately it won't the drops he gave me are supposed to be every four hour for two to three days and they are what is doing the partial dilation
[21:21:22] <CaptHindsight> is it easier to get around with a patch?
[21:21:49] * Tom_itx gives petefromtn a pegleg to go with the patch
[21:22:03] <petefromtn> I asked him that and he said they use these contact lens band aids now instead
[21:22:19] <petefromtn> Argggg
[21:22:28] <CaptHindsight> I like the pirate look
[21:22:56] <petefromtn> Chicks dig it
[21:24:22] <CaptHindsight> I sprained my ankle the other day. The limp is doing nothing for me
[21:24:37] <CaptHindsight> but an eye patch....
[21:25:35] <petefromtn> Hehe
[21:26:03] <petefromtn> So you got a hitch in your giddyup
[21:26:18] <CaptHindsight> yup
[21:26:27] <petefromtn> :D
[21:27:17] <petefromtn> Probably gonna need to miss work tomorrow
[21:28:49] <CaptHindsight> funny how things get in your eyes even when wearing safety glasses or even goggles
[21:29:55] <petefromtn> I know right
[21:30:35] <petefromtn> Both times I had to get seen by a Dr. I was wearing at least something over my eyes
[21:54:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight:
http://imgur.com/pB8DMAf
[21:54:42] <CaptHindsight> nice ice
[21:55:08] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: is this unusually early for you?
[21:55:29] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: No clue, moved here a few months ago =)
[21:55:32] <petefromtn> Looks cold
[21:55:44] <Jymmm> 34F atm
[21:55:51] <Jymmm> err 37F
[21:56:22] <petefromtn> Aah that's not too bad
[21:56:28] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, it'll look like this tomorrow:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/ice/12.jpg
[21:56:42] <CaptHindsight> http://imgur.com/gallery/0F63yd5 Arizona got it as well
[21:56:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: NAh, it's already melting
[21:57:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I've been in that area of AZ before =)
[23:10:40] <t12> https://41.media.tumblr.com/e3fcadebc6c0e13bddb7984ef0b0eb93/tumblr_nxd14n8mks1s6n9n3o1_400.jpg ???
[23:16:36] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: got some sodium hydroxide... that stuff is amazing for taking off anodized surfaces
[23:17:05] <Praesmeodymium> looks like a weaving in concrete to overcome the linear faults of the usual 3d printing toolpaths
[23:17:09] <tiwake> also probably not something I want to accidentally leave in my salt shaker
[23:17:28] <Praesmeodymium> I have a 5 gallon bucket of the stuff
[23:17:48] <tiwake> Praesmeodymium: of sodium hydroxide?
[23:18:08] <Praesmeodymium> used be red devil lye, now to get decent quantities for making soap ya got to buy 45#
[23:18:22] <Praesmeodymium> yeah NaOH
[23:18:42] <tiwake> its pretty easy to make, if you have a good power source
[23:19:01] <tiwake> salt in water, add electricity
[23:19:23] <Praesmeodymium> oh? its not expensive and any metal ions leftin soap make it itchy
[23:19:45] <tiwake> thats probably why its not expensive ;)
[23:19:59] <tiwake> and yeah, I'd imagine
[23:20:12] <Praesmeodymium> for anodizing yeah I bet a small amount home made is a better otion than a 5gallon bucket
[23:20:29] <Praesmeodymium> but its kept the drains clear lol
[23:20:52] <tiwake> I just bought a smallish container of it as "drain unclogger"
[23:20:58] <tiwake> yeah
[23:20:59] <tiwake> lol
[23:21:19] <Praesmeodymium> because of meth, they have added other shit to poison the reaction, usually metal ions
[23:21:40] <tiwake> you use it for making meth?
[23:21:58] <tiwake> s/you use/its used/
[23:22:02] <Praesmeodymium> no, thats why they dont sell red devil lye on the shelves anymore
[23:22:14] <Praesmeodymium> I make soap
[23:22:34] <Praesmeodymium> its also useful for making biofuel
[23:22:39] <tiwake> hmm
[23:22:44] <tiwake> yeah, I've read that
[23:22:51] <Praesmeodymium> and just about any other A/B reaction lol
[23:24:28] <tiwake> I wonder what the reaction is with aluminum
[23:25:37] <Praesmeodymium> 2 Al + 2 NaOH + 2 H2O → 2 NaAlO2 + 3 H (wiki)
[23:26:00] <tiwake> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-balanced-chemical-reaction-of-aluminum-and-sodium-hydroxide
[23:26:02] <Praesmeodymium> sodium aluminate and hydrogen
[23:26:53] <tiwake> I might use it for cleaning off the aluminum oxide too... hmmmm
[23:29:53] <tiwake> reading that second thing
[23:30:01] <tiwake> this is why I don't like chemistry
[23:33:06] <Praesmeodymium> even water is fascinating hydrogen bonds and I dont mean only the 2 connecting to the oxygen
http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_hydrogen_bonding.html
[23:33:31] <tiwake> well sure
[23:34:30] <tiwake> I think all chemistry is fascinating, the amount of effort to figure out chemistry isnt... in the end nobody really knows how it all works, just that it does.. heh
[23:37:32] <Praesmeodymium> well, we have some godd theories, and if a unified theory is ever found then we could do first principle calculations of tis stuff
[23:38:23] <Praesmeodymium> they already are do first principle calcs in the search for room temp superconductors and figuring out the various mechanism at play
[23:45:11] <renesis> tiwake: i dunno i took intro chem and they seem to have shit as down as the physics guys
[23:45:40] <renesis> they just actually do shit and the physics dorks just scribble on paper all day
[23:45:57] <tiwake> renesis: same, though after the intro chem, or one year of chemistry, they tell you to forget everything you learned
[23:46:11] <tiwake> and teach you chemistry proper
[23:46:31] <renesis> physics guys think theyre all that, but those fuckers draw electronic schematics like theyre in kindergarten
[23:47:09] <renesis> tiwake: same in pretty much every field, heh
[23:47:35] <tiwake> not really
[23:48:05] <renesis> physics guys, same way, programming, kind of the same
[23:48:20] <tiwake> erm, no, not really XD
[23:48:34] <renesis> when i say every field i just mean stem because i dont even know wtf everyone else does at school
[23:48:51] <renesis> write about their feelings or something
[23:49:21] <renesis> art students are neat at least they make shit
[23:52:10] <tiwake> meh
