#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-11-08

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[00:00:14] <fenn> some of them have magnets to provide for perpetual motion
[00:00:33] <XXCoder> "perpetual" motion
[00:00:37] <ssi> jesseg: don't give me alternate solutions to the problem just because you don't want to learn how to write a finite jerk tp :)
[00:01:15] <XXCoder> ssi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope
[00:01:49] <ssi> XXCoder: what am I supposed to get from that?
[00:02:00] <XXCoder> it is basic design
[00:02:04] <XXCoder> video is bit more complex
[00:02:12] <ssi> I know what gyroscopes are
[00:02:33] <jesseg> ssi, well, it's not that I don't want to, it's that I don't think it's possible to change the velocity of a mass quickly without exerting force. The machine has a certain resonant frequency that's pretty low, and if your entire acceleration happens within that time period, you're *gonna* have sway -- unless you are modeling and compensating for machine sway like they are in that tripple pendulum video
[00:03:06] <jesseg> Then you'll still have sway but it won't matter because it's been pre-emphasized out :P
[00:03:34] <ssi> that's not the point of the discussion though
[00:03:39] <ssi> I don't even have the machine anymore
[00:04:07] <ssi> the point is that some modern tps are designed around limited-jerk, and that's one way to make your time meaningful
[00:04:33] <jesseg> Ahhh OK, I'll definitely keep it in mind if I redo my acceleration algo!
[00:04:59] <jesseg> It should be simple, right? Force is a function of acceleration, right?
[00:05:24] <jesseg> Some sort of log accel or something
[00:05:32] <ssi> I don't know
[00:05:35] <ssi> if I knew I'd be doing it :)
[00:06:20] <jesseg> yeah, f=ma where F is force, M is mass, and A is acceleration
[00:06:52] <ssi> yeah, now differentiate that wrt time
[00:07:22] <jesseg> So you just start out with an almost zero acceleration, then your next step's new position needs to be based on an acceleration that creates only a slightly increased force
[00:07:39] <jesseg> such that force is ramped up non-linearly
[00:07:47] <jesseg> What does wrt mean?
[00:07:51] <ssi> with respect to
[00:07:54] <jesseg> ahh
[00:08:49] <jesseg> well, if you know the distance to the next step, and you know the new desired force, you can calculate the needed rate and thus time and position to effect the desired force.
[00:09:12] <ssi> "desired force" isn't something we use, fwiw
[00:09:15] <jesseg> Of course you'll have to do the same thing once max speed is reached -- begin tapering acceleration
[00:09:43] <ssi> I'm pretty sure our stuff is approached the other way around
[00:10:00] <ssi> you know where you are and where you want to be, and you know how fast you want to get there (feed rate or max traverse rate)
[00:10:08] <jesseg> oh but it is. Or should be if you want to avoid jerk. The force that the carriage exerts on the frame is equal to a*m
[00:10:27] <ssi> yes I understand that but that's not how machine integration is typically approached
[00:10:30] <ssi> unless you're zeeshan
[00:10:40] <jesseg> I guess that's why we have jerk ;)
[00:11:00] <ssi> there's more to it than the force
[00:11:06] <jesseg> You probably could fake it with a log lookup or something
[00:11:10] <ssi> you're thinking steady state, but this is a dynamic third-order system
[00:11:17] <jesseg> There's more to jerking than force? hmmmm...
[00:11:25] <ssi> yes, because the machine is reactive
[00:11:47] <ssi> you apply a force, and it's going to absorb some of that energy via damping and reflect some of it via spring
[00:11:53] <ssi> and cause first, second, and third order ringing
[00:12:19] <ssi> so if you want to do it via the math approach, you're going to be doing a lot of third order diffeqs :)
[00:13:23] <jesseg> well, if you mean avoiding a sudden change in acceleration caused force, that's straightforward, but if you're talking about modeling (or measuring) machine deflection and pre-emphasizing for it, then that's a bit more complicated
[00:14:03] <ssi> but I'm not talking about that, you suggested that
[00:14:03] <jesseg> In part, the position of the tool may affect the degree to which machine deflection causes tool position error
[00:14:20] <XXCoder> rememberm it is not GMm/d^2 that kills. it's d^3x/dt^3
[00:14:23] <jesseg> Hmm, okay
[00:14:41] <ssi> I'm merely talking about a tp that changes acceleration continuously, rather than in a step function
[00:15:00] <jesseg> What was tp again?
[00:15:09] <ssi> you know that you can't change position in a step, so we change continuously, that's known as velocity
[00:15:12] <ssi> trajectory planner
[00:15:15] <jesseg> ahh
[00:15:22] <ssi> we know that we can't change velocity in a step, so we change continuously, that's accel
[00:15:55] <ssi> linuxcnc's tp changes accel in a step, and yours should change it continuously, that's jerk
[00:16:08] <ssi> it's the same stuff, just an order deeper
[00:18:16] <jesseg> So in my current tp, basically rate starts out at like 1% and ramps to 100% of speed over .1 inches or whatever it is, I don't remember. It ramps linearly so half way into the acceleration it's going 50% of normal speed.
[00:19:30] <jesseg> What if instead we used the square of the distance from the starting point (scaled to 0-1)
[00:19:56] <ssi> by rate you mean velocity?
[00:20:11] <jesseg> I guess that would create another jerk when it reached speed and suddenly switched to zero acceleration
[00:20:19] <jesseg> yeah inches/minute
[00:20:40] <ssi> yeah so you have a basic linear acceleration
[00:20:43] <XXCoder> unless you flatten again near max
[00:20:55] <ssi> what you need to do is consider the acceleration the same way you consider the velocity
[00:20:57] <jesseg> XXCoder, right, then do the same thing in reverse
[00:21:04] <ssi> and change the rate of accel at the start and end of the accel move
[00:21:07] <ssi> that would be finite jerk
[00:21:33] <ssi> just like you change the rate of velocity at the start and end of the cruise
[00:22:57] <jesseg> I still think that no matter *what* you do, if your full acceleration period fits inside the resonant period of the machine, the machine is *gonna* sway. :D
[00:23:12] <jesseg> but I could be wrong. I've been wrong before and will be wrong in the future :)
[00:23:30] <XXCoder> there is infinite ways to be wrong, and only few right ways.
[00:23:43] <ssi> I think that isn't necessarily germane to the discussion at this point :)
[00:24:52] <jesseg> well I guess I still like my idea of calculating instantaneous acceleration based on desired force and current velocity, so that force can be ramped up and down. If you have 3 time/place points you can calculate the force of acceleration, right?
[00:25:19] <jesseg> oh, and the mass:P
[00:26:50] <ssi> hey give it a shot
[00:27:11] <ssi> just remember that the mass is a pretty big questionmark in most machines :)
[00:27:21] <jesseg> But it's constant.
[00:27:24] <ssi> is it?
[00:27:41] <jesseg> well, I doubt it varies by more than 10% on a 3D printer.
[00:27:46] <jesseg> But what were yo u thinking?
[00:28:00] <ssi> I have a 10,000lb mill fifteen feet from where I'm sitting
[00:28:03] <ssi> every axis moves a different mass
[00:28:09] <ssi> measuring those masses is non-trivial
[00:28:20] <ssi> furthermore, I can put a 400lb block of metal on the table and start slinging it around
[00:28:28] <ssi> and that block gets lighter over the course of a program
[00:28:29] <jesseg> Oh I see
[00:28:39] <ssi> very much non-constant mass :)
[00:28:45] <XXCoder> indeed
[00:28:47] <jesseg> yeah you would need realtime tuning
[00:28:54] <ssi> yeah, and nobody wants that :D
[00:29:13] <ssi> see, there's lots of ways to approach these problems
[00:29:30] <jesseg> well, still, the exact force wouldn't really matter, as long as the change in force was always gradual
[00:29:34] <ssi> there's the hypertheoretical approaches that someone with a bunch of time in a control theory classroom and little time with hands on a machine might take
[00:29:54] <ssi> and there's the difference between the approach someone with 10klb machines might take vs someone with a reprap
[00:30:14] <jesseg> yeah
[00:30:30] <ssi> plus it sounds like you're approaching it from a mindset of "it takes X to control THIS machine"
[00:30:42] <ssi> whereas linuxcnc is written with the mindset of "what could we possibly need to control every machine in existence"
[00:30:58] <ssi> that's a challenging thing to do
[00:32:57] <jesseg> well, f always equals ma
[00:33:15] <jesseg> so if jerk is to be reduced, then a needs to be slewed ;)
[00:33:30] <jesseg> But a simple lookup table like this might actually work very nicely: https://awwapp.com/s/9f817594-ab36-4586-8b5e-f0bd12f60e5d/
[00:34:01] <jesseg> pardon the terrible asymmetric curve. I cannot draw with the mouse. Actually, I cannot draw.
[00:34:18] <ssi> yes that's very possible
[00:35:39] <jesseg> although it may be better to key it off of the *time* from the endpoint, since the distance changes the rate of change (lol) but then coming to the other end may be tricky since you don't know how long it's gonig to take to decel :P
[00:36:09] <jesseg> But, different curves could be developed that worked well - one for accel and the other for decel
[00:37:46] <jesseg> Speaking of taking shortcuts, when I did my PID loop, I was doing it in 8 bit PIC assembly using 32 and 64 bit ints and didn't want to have to divide, so I just ran my loop at exactly 1Khz on a timer and left out the /dt part since dt was always the same :P
[00:40:41] <jesseg> ssi, Ahh, okay I should have been using the term G instead of Force and Mass, since mass is an unkown. We know that 1G is 9.8m/s/s or whatever, but that's besides the point. Anyway, the tp would try accelerate at a maximum of x g/s. Then we don't have to worry about the mass of the table or anything.
[00:42:27] <jesseg> Then the G/S would be ramped up then ramped down when full rate was reached.
[00:42:39] <jesseg> hmm food time
[00:42:59] <jesseg> Thanks so much for all the help ssi I really appreciate it. I know I'm a difficult student!
[00:44:12] <ssi> :) good luck
[00:44:20] <jesseg> Thanks =)
[00:44:33] <ssi> but yes I think thinking about it in terms of G per sec is probably smart
[00:52:27] <jesseg> ssi, there. I put a TODO note in my source code to remind me about it for when I work on that in the future :
[00:52:29] <jesseg> :)
[00:52:39] <ssi> excellent :)
[00:52:44] <ssi> report back what you find out
[00:53:03] <jesseg> will do! I put your nick in there too so I'll remember who to report back to :D
[00:58:00] <fenn> you might also look up sinusoidal trajectory planning if going to all this bother to deal with jerk
[00:58:22] <jesseg> I don't even know what that is :)
[00:58:25] <Contract_Pilot> Ok, Reset code's on tranny connector dry hwy speed and kick down no error code!
[00:58:35] <fenn> since a sine function is bounded no matter how many times you take its derivative
[00:59:11] <Contract_Pilot> Think it was water in connector.
[00:59:32] <Contract_Pilot> We did have nearly 2" rain that night.
[01:01:27] <Contract_Pilot> Controller on table tomarrow evening to be rewired for the 7I76
[01:01:48] <Contract_Pilot> then config LCNC then convert to path Pilot.
[01:02:50] <ssi> :D
[01:02:56] <ssi> I'm curious to see how pathpilot treats you
[01:03:54] <ssi> FINALLY got all my scaling stuff working correctly
[01:04:59] <fenn> ssi jesseg this looks to be in the right ballpark http://www.aspe.net/publications/Spring_2001/01Sp%20Extended%20Abstracts/Arevalo.PDF don't worry about the equations too much just look at the graphs and text
[01:05:21] <jesseg> K
[01:06:14] <fenn> i guess the magic keyword phrase is "sinusoidal velocity profile"
[01:07:37] <Contract_Pilot> Should be Good only thing is the vistaCNC pendant!
[01:07:51] <Contract_Pilot> Intergrating it.
[01:10:17] <Contract_Pilot> All i am awaiting on my compound slide block.
[01:10:23] <jesseg> fenn, yeah that looks like it alright!
[01:10:44] <anomynous> okay. How do I calculate how strong press I need to punch a certain width of cut with a certain tensile strength? Or is that what is needed?
[01:11:05] <jesseg> anomynous, you might need to know sheer strength too, not sure :P
[01:11:18] <XXCoder> shear?
[01:11:26] <fenn> the amount of force depends how much shear angle your punch has
[01:11:31] <jesseg> LOL. Me and spelling met once. Decided to never see eachother again.
[01:11:37] <anomynous> our press is sheer strength. :)
[01:11:47] <Contract_Pilot> VistaCNC pendants support LinuxCNC so should not be to hard to merge it to PathPilot but LCNC has sweet support.
[01:11:49] <ssi> fenn: probably similar to the cutting angle of a lathe tool
[01:12:07] <fenn> probably 0 degrees actually since that's easiest to make
[01:12:07] <Contract_Pilot> Mach sucks!
[01:12:10] <XXCoder> lol jesseg
[01:12:18] <Contract_Pilot> hate mach support!
[01:12:29] <ssi> I mean it probably varies in a similar way as a lathe tool's angle
[01:12:37] <Contract_Pilot> #2 Reason for the switch.
[01:12:37] <fenn> for 0 degrees the force required is the length of the perimeter being punched out times the thickness of the material times the shear strength of the material
[01:12:54] <Contract_Pilot> #1 is the encoder support.
[01:13:04] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: such a basic feature :P
[01:13:37] <Contract_Pilot> #3 is the Turning GUI
[01:13:57] <Contract_Pilot> I want to be able to do barrels!
[01:14:03] <anomynous> fenn, ty. what degree?
[01:14:20] <Contract_Pilot> And thread them with nice threads! b
[01:14:48] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: I've done a bit of that :)
[01:14:52] <Contract_Pilot> Port 2 of 5I25 will be for the mill.
[01:15:06] <anomynous> barrels? With threads? Why?
[01:15:31] <ssi> anomynous: to attach them to things? :P
[01:15:36] <anomynous> barrel shape pieces with threads? ;D
[01:15:44] <Contract_Pilot> 1 puter will work 2 machine 1 at a time yes but i am 1 person.
[01:16:10] <Contract_Pilot> Lamp Posts.
[01:16:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder: ???
[01:16:21] <ssi> anomynous: plenty of rifle barrels are threaded to the receiver
[01:16:25] <ssi> not to mention other things at the other end
[01:16:26] <XXCoder> yeah?
[01:16:33] <fenn> anomynous: the shear angle, like cutting with scissors vs a hole punch
[01:16:36] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you said I left
[01:16:43] <anomynous> ah
[01:17:02] <Jymmm> ssi: like 2L bottles =)
[01:17:10] <Contract_Pilot> Yep Muzzle brakes, flash Hidder, and supressors with a form 1
[01:17:11] <XXCoder> more correctly, I sid you PROBABLY left. you was silent for quite a while by now
[01:17:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder: in refernce to?
[01:17:32] <Contract_Pilot> + i have many other widgits in my head!
[01:17:38] <XXCoder> oh I said something to you, you was silent
[01:17:46] <XXCoder> no worries though lol
[01:17:52] <Jymmm> XXCoder: which was?
[01:18:10] <XXCoder> I forgot, been a bit lol
[01:18:13] <XXCoder> a sec
[01:18:15] <fenn> anomynous: machinery handbook has some tables of pressures required vs diameter and thickness
[01:18:20] <Contract_Pilot> My sons Quad needs new spindle's
[01:18:33] <Jymmm> Heh, it's funny... I can swap out the barrel of my gun all day long, it's the plastic receiver that's "registered"
[01:18:34] <Contract_Pilot> need to thread them.
[01:18:55] <Jymmm> Balistics be damned!
[01:18:56] <fenn> anomynous: some example values: 1 inch diameter by 1/8 thick requires 19600 pounds of pressure
[01:18:58] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, barrel is just a part.
[01:19:17] <XXCoder> oh yes
[01:19:34] <XXCoder> I tested usb webcam with android device
[01:19:39] <Jymmm> and it's NOT threaded =)
[01:19:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: oh, and?
[01:19:51] <XXCoder> it worked but my webcam sucked so my phone couldnt get any picture
[01:19:53] <anomynous> roar
[01:19:56] <Contract_Pilot> Some are!
[01:19:57] <XXCoder> but in general it worked
[01:19:59] <anomynous> do i need to do stuff for metric? ;D
[01:20:11] <Jymmm> anomynous: furlongs
[01:20:22] <anomynous> what are furlongs? Something to eat?
[01:20:29] <jesseg> Metric inches?
[01:20:31] <Jymmm> anomynous: length of measurement
[01:20:32] <XXCoder> current king hand length
[01:20:37] <Contract_Pilot> Now, for the VFD do i want to use PMW or modbus
[01:21:03] <anomynous> how much is a pound? ;D
[01:21:08] <XXCoder> Jymmm: interesting enough though I found an app that turns android device intp IP camera
[01:21:10] <Contract_Pilot> hitachi wj200-022sf
[01:21:19] <XXCoder> could use some junk phone or something
[01:21:22] <fenn> anomynous: 25mm dia 3mm thick requires 88kN or 8800kgf
[01:21:37] <anomynous> thanks
[01:21:41] <anomynous> now i understood
[01:21:42] <Jymmm> anomynous: $1.50 USD
[01:21:48] <anomynous> Jymmm, ;)
[01:22:26] <Contract_Pilot> Path pilot magnet:?xt=urn:btih:BAF492B830E92636EF253242BA5B272B674EB9CD&dn=Tormach%20PathPilot%20Restore%20Disk%20V1.9.2b.iso&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80%2fannounce
[01:22:31] <Jymmm> XXCoder: https://www.airdroid.com/
[01:22:47] <ssi> I don't know who talked me into building htese benches with nails instead of screws, but they're not my friend anymore
[01:23:05] <Contract_Pilot> Screws always!
[01:23:11] <XXCoder> pretty cool
[01:23:15] <jesseg> ssi, LOL I'm with you on that one.
[01:23:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I wanted to use usb boroscope on my phone instead of lugging a laptop/netbook
[01:23:24] <ssi> I think I had recently acquired a framing nailer and was itching for a reason to use it
[01:23:28] <ssi> lesson learned :P
[01:23:34] <ssi> "it'll be faster and cheaper" he said
[01:23:38] <ssi> suuuure it will
[01:23:42] <Contract_Pilot> Some one was offering to host 2 weeks ago but i was swamped!
[01:23:43] <XXCoder> yeah good question on how well it would work
[01:23:52] <XXCoder> I couldnt completely test it
[01:24:26] <anomynous> how hot do i need to torch a sheet to remove yield point if it has one?
[01:24:31] <Jymmm> XXCoder: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5m-6-LED-Waterproof-USB-Borescope-Snake-Inspection-Endoscope-Tube-Camera-Mirror-/281531217977
[01:24:54] <XXCoder> ah visiing your backend ;) I guess you really want it for something else.
[01:24:56] <Jymmm> anomynous: When it turns white =)
[01:24:58] <XXCoder> hm surpising cheap
[01:25:24] <anomynous> Jymmm, i dont want holes in it
[01:25:26] <fenn> melting point?
[01:25:41] <anomynous> mm
[01:25:45] <anomynous> maybe i used wrong term
[01:25:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Yep, but great to toss on a stick to see where you normally can't; like gutters from the ground
[01:26:17] <XXCoder> there is MUCH longer iones
[01:26:22] <XXCoder> like 10m
[01:26:45] <anomynous> http://i.stack.imgur.com/kIOJo.png
[01:26:48] <anomynous> that point
[01:26:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I don't ned longer, just work on an android phone =)
[01:27:00] <XXCoder> cool
[01:27:31] <anomynous> and it doesn't return immidiately, but over time, wasn't that right?
[01:27:35] <fenn> anomynous: why is there a bump at the point labeled yield strength?
[01:27:48] <anomynous> because of coal being lumped up together
[01:28:02] <anomynous> and making it harder for dislocations to movfe
[01:28:15] <Contract_Pilot> You cannot reply to this topic.
[01:28:17] <Contract_Pilot> ???
[01:28:39] <XXCoder> Jymmm: it requires powered otg, probably why mu webcam was kind of not working, it wasnt getting enough power
[01:28:52] <Jymmm> XXCoder: usb hub
[01:28:54] <XXCoder> you can always use Y cable to feed power
[01:28:57] <XXCoder> or that
[01:29:01] <Contract_Pilot> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/26-turning/29607-ditching-mach-3-4-linuxcnc-is-the-plan
[01:29:43] <fenn> well i'm going to take a wild guess and assume you want to anneal the steel, so around 800C see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_%28metallurgy%29#Full_anneal
[01:30:09] <anomynous> i just want to remove the bump so forming will happen uniformly and not from weakest point
[01:33:17] <fenn> i am looking at a book about steel alloys and processes and there's no bump in the stress/strain graph, it's just a rounded corner for ductile materials and a sharp corner for brittle materials
[01:33:18] <Contract_Pilot> Why am i locked form the forums? n
[01:33:43] <anomynous> i remember it dissapearing at 400deg but how long do i have to keep to prevent it from immidiately emerging after cooling, and stuff ;D Or do i need to buy newly cold rolled
[01:34:03] <anomynous> well the thing that not so much alloyed steels have ;D
[01:35:36] <fenn> is this a result of work hardening?
[01:35:41] <anomynous> aging
[01:37:19] <fenn> hmm "At this point the cross- sectional area of the material starts decreasing and the stress decreases
[01:37:43] <fenn> maybe this is a different way to measure strain
[01:41:25] <anomynous> i just wanted to make stuff behave like sheets meant for deep drawing, which are newly cold rolled to make the curve uniform
[01:42:41] <Contract_Pilot> Will not allow me to post in a few forums.
[01:42:53] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: the forum was swapped out for different software recently, and dns just propogated to the new one
[01:43:04] <ssi> I don't know anything about the new forums to be able to help you sort out why, but that's what happened
[01:44:05] <Contract_Pilot> Ok, lets me edit but not post reply to some.
[01:44:23] <Contract_Pilot> Love this LCNC support network.
[01:44:48] <Contract_Pilot> Noticed the .ord was down a week ago.
[01:45:01] <Contract_Pilot> ahhh org beer #3
[01:45:07] <ssi> yeah that was an issue with our hosting
[01:45:16] <ssi> there have been a bunch of changes to the website in response to that :)
[01:45:22] <ssi> and will be more I believe
[01:45:52] <Contract_Pilot> K
[01:46:19] <Jymmm> http://www.midwayusa.com/product/335763/lone-wolf-barrel-glock-17-9mm-luger-1-in-16-twist-449-stainless-steel
[01:46:34] <Contract_Pilot> Once i get wired up gonna need programming help for sure i can prob get it but just in case!
[01:46:58] <Contract_Pilot> Jymm yea, we know !
[01:47:15] <Jymmm> you knwow what?
[01:47:20] <Contract_Pilot> I deal AK-47
[01:47:31] <Contract_Pilot> ya, a glock user!
[01:47:53] <ssi> that's worse than a mach user! :D
[01:48:08] <Wolf_Mill> ...
[01:48:13] * Wolf_Mill owns a glock
[01:48:23] <Contract_Pilot> Love Malta! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_0483-1024x768.jpg
[01:48:29] <Wolf_Mill> cause I dont want to scratch up my Sig :D
[01:49:04] <Contract_Pilot> Ahhh hate my P250
[01:49:06] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: hahaha
[01:49:21] <Contract_Pilot> Halloween few years back. http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/4121714822_06d1c868cd.jpg
[01:49:25] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: I own a sig because I don't want to scratch up my three $3500 hand built 1911s :)
[01:49:28] <Wolf_Mill> I have a odd ball tho, glock 33
[01:49:35] <Jymmm> Not much of a gun if you have to worry scratching it =)
[01:49:47] <Contract_Pilot> Right!
[01:50:12] <ssi> Jymmm: does that also apply to cars?
[01:50:31] <Contract_Pilot> At least i can stan on top of an 8" junkers!
[01:50:32] <Jymmm> I'm not shooting a car
[01:50:36] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/133-1024x768.jpg
[01:51:09] <ssi> Jymmm: you have some of the most fundamentally flawed logic of any human I've ever interacted with
[01:51:18] <Wolf_Mill> I do need to pick up a 9mm and 40 barrel for my 33
[01:51:36] <Contract_Pilot> then drink a beer with the police! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/044-1024x768.jpg
[01:51:49] <jesseg> haha oh.. Spaces are not required in gcode files...?! K. I guess it saves space.
[01:52:04] <Jymmm> ssi: Because cars discharge an explosive round?
[01:52:20] <ssi> jesseg: go read about the history of rs274 and it'll make more sense :)
[01:52:30] <ssi> Jymmm: yes actually, several thousand times a second
[01:52:45] <ssi> not to mention that they get dragged through rocks and mud constantly during use
[01:52:49] <ssi> at high speed
[01:52:52] <Wolf_Mill> one is more likely to kill you also
[01:52:58] <Wolf_Mill> and it not the guns lol
[01:53:01] <Jymmm> ssi: the key word was "rounds", as in projectiles
[01:53:18] <ssi> Jymmm: yeah see that's part of your fucked up logic, you change the game midstream if you start to lose :)
[01:53:32] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Me-Holding-50-BMG-613x1024.jpg
[01:53:33] <Wolf_Mill> I dont own anything that discharges explosive rounds
[01:53:45] <Wolf_Mill> tax cost too much for them toys
[01:53:50] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: indeed
[01:53:58] <Contract_Pilot> Yawn!
[01:54:00] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: No modified pumlin chunkin canon?
[01:54:02] <ssi> I have four stamps but DDs are not among them :P
[01:54:29] <ssi> although based on duc's stuff the other night I might consider a DD stamp for a twennymikemike
[01:54:37] <ssi> that's a bit more practical than a stamp per grenade :P
[01:54:45] <Wolf_Mill> yeah :)
[01:55:01] <Wolf_Mill> least you dont need a stamp per chalk round
[01:55:13] <ssi> srsly
[01:56:02] <Wolf_Mill> one of these days I need to set up a trust and do some form1 builds now that I have cnc and lathe :)
[01:56:22] <ssi> I actually have a f1 that I got back in january to do a can but I never got around to it
[01:56:26] <ssi> mostly cause the lathe hasn't been set up
[01:56:36] <ssi> I have two f4 cans and an f1 sbr already
[01:57:01] <Contract_Pilot> Ready for a zombie a mile away! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMG1-768x1024.jpg
[01:57:46] <Wolf_Mill> man, my linux box wont load your pics for some odd reason
[01:58:55] <Contract_Pilot> Home made lower! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/bmgrifle-s.jpg
[01:59:44] <Wolf_Mill> wonder if SBR ar is legal in maryland...
[01:59:56] <ssi> nothing's legal in md
[02:00:46] <Contract_Pilot> ssi is correct!@
[02:00:46] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, got some fucked up laws here thanks to O'Mally
[02:01:18] <Wolf_Mill> but I think AR in pistol form are still legal (hows that for making sense)
[02:02:11] <Contract_Pilot> Read sea Jordan! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Red-Sea-Beech-1024x768.jpg see the bikinies!
[02:02:38] <Wolf_Mill> even better I can still drive to VA or PA and bring back all the >10rd mags I want
[02:02:48] <Contract_Pilot> Need to you tube the video of the arms market taxi driver took me to on the way to petra.
[02:04:08] <Contract_Pilot> Indiana Jones! Any one! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Abit-Close-768x1024.jpg
[02:04:48] <Contract_Pilot> king tut! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S4010831-1024x768.jpg
[02:05:38] <ssi> wtf am I doing wrong here :(
[02:05:51] <Contract_Pilot> SSI need to be a Ferry pilot!
[02:06:01] <ssi> maybe
[02:06:07] <Contract_Pilot> Well not now!
[02:06:11] <ssi> not now?
[02:06:27] <Contract_Pilot> nope 1,500 hour rule killed it.
[02:06:36] <ssi> how so
[02:06:58] <Contract_Pilot> I would charge 10k-15k for a flight now pilots are paying 3-5k to fly to build hours.
[02:07:03] <ssi> ahh
[02:07:12] <Contract_Pilot> Gov reg killed it!
[02:07:18] <ssi> like everything else
[02:07:28] <Contract_Pilot> Yep!
[02:07:48] <Contract_Pilot> but accident and death rate is up 200%
[02:07:56] <ssi> on ferry flights?
[02:07:59] <ssi> certainly not in general
[02:08:38] <Contract_Pilot> 300 hour pilot crossing the pond 30% over gross no instruction = bad
[02:08:47] <Contract_Pilot> on ferry flights
[02:08:49] <ssi> yeah that's my thought as well
[02:08:57] <ssi> but whatever, let them weed themselves out of the pool
[02:09:11] <Contract_Pilot> I started at 250 but had a mentor!
[02:09:22] <ssi> man I was looking at twinkies a few months ago
[02:09:26] <Contract_Pilot> 3,000 now PIC no instruction.
[02:09:35] <ssi> and there was a miller conversion twinkie on controller.com with allllll the mods
[02:09:53] <ssi> 200hp/side instead of 160, 198 gal usable
[02:09:57] <ssi> they built it for atlantic crossings
[02:10:22] <ssi> I'm approaching 1500hrs now
[02:10:25] <ssi> probably 1350 now I think?
[02:10:29] <ssi> I haven't caught up my logs in awhile
[02:10:41] <ssi> but I don't even have my damn commercial :/
[02:10:41] <jesseg> What does the Z.1 mean in the line "N108 G43 H1 Z.1 M8" ? Is it just setting Z, or does it have a special meaning since it's a tool length offset command?
[02:10:47] <ssi> I've been trying to get it done this year
[02:11:06] <ssi> but I need to borrow my friend's comanche for the complex requirement, and it's been down for annual since july :(
[02:11:31] <ssi> jesseg: I imagine it's setting the tool offset to .1 in the Z direction
[02:11:42] <Contract_Pilot> ASEL AMEL Commercial Instrument
[02:11:47] <jesseg> ssi, thanks!
[02:12:28] <Contract_Pilot> About 3,000 hours maybe more my flight records are a mess.
[02:12:40] <ssi> as soon as the comanche is back up, gonna go get my checkride done for my C-ASEL-IA, and then gonna do an addon in another friend's apache and get my C-AMEL-IA knocked out
[02:12:49] <ssi> I go tuesday to take teh first written for my A&P
[02:13:17] <ssi> freakin written test prices have gone through the roof
[02:13:19] <ssi> pisses me off so bad
[02:13:21] <ssi> last one I took was $90
[02:13:22] <Contract_Pilot> A&P is good but in the ferry word ins will not allow use!
[02:13:24] <ssi> tehy're $165 now
[02:13:41] <ssi> there's three writtens for A&P :(
[02:13:50] <Contract_Pilot> Yea!
[02:14:00] <ssi> stupid lasergrade :(
[02:14:07] <Contract_Pilot> or Cats
[02:14:10] <ssi> or cats
[02:14:12] <ssi> they're both stupid
[02:14:33] <ssi> i need to brush up on the A&P-G before tuesday lul
[02:14:48] <ssi> it's been a few weeks since I studied it
[02:15:06] <Contract_Pilot> not hard! i am not an A7p becuse of ins preimum
[02:15:24] <Contract_Pilot> if a&p my ins went thru the roof!
[02:15:43] <ssi> it's not hard but I don't want to fail it for being cavalier :)
[02:15:46] <Contract_Pilot> But i could pass the tests
[02:20:22] <Contract_Pilot> SSI sent you an A&P gift!
[02:21:53] <Wolf_Mill> ha, just checked, cant build a AR rifle in MD but you can form 1 a 80% lower into a SBR lmao
[02:22:59] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: jesus really? that's asinine
[02:23:10] <Wolf_Mill> yup lol
[02:23:53] <Wolf_Mill> NFA stuff is easy here oddly, even w/out a trust, state police will sign off with no issues
[02:28:33] <Contract_Pilot> on a trust?
[02:30:31] <Wolf_Mill> trust doesnt need CLEO signoff
[02:31:13] <Wolf_Mill> if I remember right
[02:32:15] <Contract_Pilot> I have 3,000 ak-47 mags 30rd right now
[02:32:26] <Contract_Pilot> Election year
[02:32:32] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[02:33:16] <Wolf_Mill> I just wish I could find 22 ammo here
[02:33:40] <Contract_Pilot> Wally world here is plenty but price is high
[02:33:52] <Contract_Pilot> not selling
[02:34:23] <Wolf_Mill> around here it doesnt even last long enough for them to put the price on teh shelf
[02:34:35] <Contract_Pilot> 50.00 for 525
[02:34:56] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, maybe 20.00 35max
[02:35:14] <Wolf_Mill> I really should F1 a can for the AR and just shoot that in the backyard
[02:35:25] <Wolf_Mill> least I can reload 5.56
[02:35:44] <Contract_Pilot> Wait till hearing protection passes next year
[02:36:05] <Contract_Pilot> no need to F1 a Can make a lamp post1
[02:36:27] <Wolf_Mill> that would be nice
[02:36:38] <Contract_Pilot> It will pass.
[02:36:55] <Wolf_Mill> need a bigger lathe then... I have a few things that I need to thread :D
[02:37:11] <Contract_Pilot> Shit i am so close to configuring this lathe...
[02:37:48] <Contract_Pilot> 5th beer may can sleep for 6 hours have energy.
[02:38:14] <Tom_itx> don't drink and fly
[02:38:16] <Contract_Pilot> need my compound slide block
[02:38:22] <Contract_Pilot> done that!
[02:38:23] <Wolf_Mill> wonder how pointless a can would be on a 220swift :D
[02:38:29] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: not that pointless
[02:38:29] <XXCoder> don't drink and lathe
[02:38:35] <Contract_Pilot> 16hour flight
[02:38:39] <ssi> it'll sound like a supersonic 22
[02:38:46] <Contract_Pilot> landed sober
[02:38:52] <Wolf_Mill> very super sonic...
[02:39:02] <ssi> I run a can on .308, .30-06, 762x54R
[02:39:11] <Contract_Pilot> No choice out of afganistan
[02:39:16] <ssi> I haven't tried it on 22-250, it'd be about the same
[02:39:19] <ssi> as the swift
[02:39:34] <Wolf_Mill> yeah 308 necked vs 30.06
[02:39:55] <Contract_Pilot> I support my troops or i would prob be -6' under
[02:40:11] <Contract_Pilot> I have been under fire!
[02:40:35] * Wolf_Mill hasnt been under fire
[02:40:43] <Contract_Pilot> State Department Gig!
[02:40:48] <Wolf_Mill> if I wanted to I could drive 30min to Bmore tho
[02:41:12] <Contract_Pilot> No photos i can publish!
[02:41:37] <Wolf_Mill> a-stan probably safer then baltimore too
[02:41:39] <Contract_Pilot> Lebanon 2006 was fun
[02:41:45] <Contract_Pilot> have one photo!
[02:41:57] <Contract_Pilot> maybe 2 i can publish
[02:42:25] <Deejay> moin
[02:46:33] <Contract_Pilot> Prince Trukey http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S4012497-1024x768.jpg
[02:48:51] <Contract_Pilot> Saudi!
[02:49:05] <Contract_Pilot> In Lebanon 2006
[02:50:20] <Contract_Pilot> leader of the sirian rebelian grand son of the assinated president http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S4012498-1024x768.jpg
[02:55:41] <anomynous> why does everyone have a gun
[02:55:45] <anomynous> what do they do with them?
[02:56:04] <Contract_Pilot> Free Syrian Army sorry
[02:56:51] <anomynous> why do americans feel so strongly about guns that its in constitution that people have right to bear them?
[02:56:52] <anomynous> ;D
[02:58:18] <ssi> the bigger question is why do people feel so strongly that they should be able to dictate what things other people are permitted to own :P
[02:58:37] <anomynous> well, crime rates in usa are a question
[02:58:40] <anomynous> safety
[02:58:47] <anomynous> guns dont kill, but people do. and rob and do stuff
[02:59:01] <Contract_Pilot> I had no issues with them even went oun my own sept 2006
[02:59:04] <anomynous> so yeah. i think its reasonable that the majority who do nothing with their guns dont have guns
[02:59:06] <Wolf_Mill> thats cause the mind set of shitstains on the street here
[02:59:16] <Contract_Pilot> in the middle of bombing!
[02:59:36] <ssi> I don't think it's reasonable
[02:59:40] <anomynous> why not?
[02:59:47] <ssi> I'm not sure why what you think is reasonable should trump what I think is reasonable
[02:59:57] <XXCoder> anomynous: numbers of crime is rinsing. but if you compare statatics of population vs crimes, it is decreasing. have been for years.
[03:00:15] <Praesmeodymium> my take on why we americans are so big on that right is, the country was founded by revolutionaries who knew they were putting in a nescarry evil that might get out of control, because... humans.... guns would allow the people to rise up and remove the broken thing if required
[03:00:15] <anomynous> ssi, because its not about self. Its about everyone else ;)
[03:00:40] <ssi> sorry but your collectivist nonsense doesn't move me :)
[03:00:48] <anomynous> not my intention
[03:00:58] <anomynous> and why is it nonsense?
[03:01:14] <Wolf_Mill> strict gun laws at work, look at the homicide rates for Baltimore and chicago
[03:01:24] <ssi> consider the fact that I can walk into the next room ten feet from where I'm standing
[03:01:28] <jesseg> The answer to bad guns is not less guns, it's more guns :P (Play on on the line about the answer to bad speech not being less speech but more speech.)
[03:01:34] <ssi> and within it contains all the raw materials and machinery necessary to create a gun from scratch
[03:01:45] <ssi> what exactly is stopping anyone on the planet from owning a gun? certainly not laws
[03:01:51] <Contract_Pilot> only photo of my venture http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/lebanon.jpg
[03:02:17] <ssi> there was that nonsense a couple years ago about 3d printing guns
[03:02:18] <XXCoder> ssi: then why have laws?
[03:02:19] <anomynous> Wolf_Mill, i dont know about usa. We have quite strict gun laws. Our crime rates are probably lower than yours all around
[03:02:19] <XXCoder> any laws.
[03:02:26] <Praesmeodymium> ssi there still is
[03:02:30] <ssi> and the loonies came out in force to say that we should ban 3d printers because you can make guns with them!
[03:02:35] <ssi> should we ban cnc mills too?
[03:02:41] <ssi> XXCoder: we have laws
[03:02:43] <Contract_Pilot> not us security ditched them easy had a blast !
[03:02:45] <jesseg> ssi, makes more sense for the law to say that EVERYBODY has to carry all the time. Then the lawbreakers would be unarmed :P
[03:02:46] <ssi> it's illegal to murder people
[03:02:52] <ssi> why don't we just enforce that law?
[03:02:53] <XXCoder> ssi: why have laws with cars? crimials murder people with it
[03:03:01] <Contract_Pilot> prob hav 4-5 kids in lebanon!
[03:03:03] <anomynous> ssi, nope. I don't think thats reasonable. Their prime use is not malicious.
[03:03:06] <XXCoder> if ban cars then only criminials will have cars
[03:03:31] <ssi> anomynous: an inanimate object can not have malice or ill intention
[03:03:32] <anomynous> ssi, nor is their possible malicious use a problem. Those who want a gun will probably get one in another way than make it themselv
[03:03:35] <anomynous> themself
[03:03:37] <Wolf_Mill> gun is just a simple machine, kinda hard to blame anything on them
[03:03:39] <Wolf_Mill> IMO
[03:03:39] <anomynous> or some other illegal device
[03:03:48] <anomynous> im not
[03:03:54] <anomynous> blaming guns
[03:03:59] <anomynous> like i said earlier
[03:04:00] <Contract_Pilot> I lived my dearn for sure one off spring 70% of the countries of the plant!
[03:04:04] <ssi> you can make laws against crime
[03:04:13] <anomynous> its just migitating the damage when someone wants to do stuff to other people or their property
[03:04:25] <anomynous> sure you can
[03:04:28] <ssi> laws aganst objects that could potentially be used for crime is like thought-crime
[03:04:30] <Contract_Pilot> my royal oats have been planted!
[03:04:34] <XXCoder> in respect of guns, I just want it be treated like cars. require license and insurance
[03:04:55] <XXCoder> why do cars require it? because cars is dangerous.
[03:05:03] <ssi> XXCoder: incorrect
[03:05:15] <ssi> XXCoder: cars require it because public roads and liability
[03:05:17] <Praesmeodymium> ssi: there ofc exists an illogical extreme that makes sense in the case of illeagle objects
[03:05:23] <jesseg> Cars are more dangerous than guns because they go off (the road) so much more easily :P
[03:05:29] <Praesmeodymium> the nuclear weapon for example
[03:05:39] <ssi> Praesmeodymium: perhaps
[03:05:45] <Contract_Pilot> 2nd to last photo was grand son to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adib_Shishakli
[03:05:52] <anomynous> jesseg, true. But they are needed
[03:05:59] <anomynous> jesseg, they have important use
[03:06:01] <ssi> anomynous: one could argue they are not
[03:06:12] <ssi> whereas one could easily argue that guns are needed
[03:06:15] <ssi> and have important use
[03:06:21] <anomynous> hunting and hobbying
[03:06:33] <jesseg> anomynous, Guns are needed by criminals to work their trade. Very very important. Seriously.
[03:06:38] <ssi> someone who lives in manhattan could easily get behind a law banning private use of cars
[03:06:51] <ssi> why would they care? they don't need it
[03:07:05] <ssi> and they're clearly the most important people in the world, so why should anyone else need it?
[03:07:10] <Wolf_Mill> well, cars are needed in the USA cause our infrastructure sucks
[03:07:13] <anomynous> ssi, that does not explain cars unneeded
[03:07:14] <Contract_Pilot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adib_Shishakly & http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-admin/upload.php?item=1448
[03:07:16] <ssi> sure it does
[03:07:25] <ssi> cars can be used to HURT PEOPLE
[03:07:26] <anomynous> merely a case of a person
[03:07:30] <ssi> cars can be used to HURT CHILDREN
[03:07:34] <anomynous> how about someone in texas?
[03:07:36] <ssi> I live in the city and I don't even own a car
[03:07:39] <anomynous> a farmer
[03:07:42] <ssi> why should anyone own such a dangerous thing?
[03:07:49] <ssi> it's primary use is hurting people
[03:07:51] <ssi> AND THE ENVIRONMENT
[03:08:02] <anomynous> and i have done without a car for quite a while actually
[03:08:05] <XXCoder> car? nah. guns, in other hand.
[03:08:11] <Wolf_Mill> could argue that cars are the leading cause of drunk driving too
[03:08:17] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: they absolutely are
[03:08:24] <ssi> without cars, NOBODY would drive drunk
[03:08:28] <anomynous> but they are needed. If you argue that someone in manhattan doesnt need one -> anyone doesn't need one, it is stupid
[03:08:29] <fenn> leaded gasoline, the true source of violent crime
[03:08:39] <anomynous> and you should make a better argument
[03:08:43] <XXCoder> fenn: lead do damage brain
[03:08:53] <fenn> hah i know, this conversation is just silly
[03:08:53] <XXCoder> make people more violent
[03:08:54] <ssi> anomynous: if you argue that you don't need one therefore I shouldn't be allowed to have one, it is stupd
[03:09:05] <anomynous> well, i didnt say anyone shouldnt have
[03:09:10] <jesseg> anomynous, but guns play a very important role in the business of criminals. Do you know what that means? It means they are shooting at innocents!
[03:09:17] <anomynous> i just said that those who dont need them shouldnt
[03:09:17] <XXCoder> ssi: I was never about banning guns. just require license and insurance
[03:09:29] <anomynous> hunting and hobbying are a reason to own a gun, for example
[03:09:34] <Contract_Pilot> I have weppons of all sizes 1lb to 6,000lb
[03:09:37] <XXCoder> anomynous: indeed
[03:09:42] <Praesmeodymium> nice
[03:09:48] <ssi> anomynous: that covers every legitimate gun owner
[03:09:50] <Contract_Pilot> I drive a hummer H2
[03:09:57] <Praesmeodymium> 600lb you got a howitzer?
[03:09:58] <XXCoder> h2 ugh
[03:10:01] <Wolf_Mill> XXCoder: the license part is requiered in chicago and baltimore
[03:10:02] <ssi> which is like half of us citizens
[03:10:03] <anomynous> ssi, does every legimate gun owner go hunting and shooting range?
[03:10:05] <Praesmeodymium> hummer right
[03:10:05] <anomynous> i dont buy that
[03:10:09] <XXCoder> h1 is better looking.
[03:10:16] <XXCoder> and hummer isnt american company now.
[03:10:20] <ssi> anomynous: uh
[03:10:25] <ssi> what do you think we do with them?
[03:10:36] <XXCoder> h3 looks like suv
[03:10:38] <Contract_Pilot> yea, at i got my 04 h2 with 50k for 15K
[03:10:48] <anomynous> carry around, just in case and compare them like collection cards ;D
[03:10:51] <Contract_Pilot> 4 years old,
[03:10:58] <ssi> well yes
[03:10:59] <XXCoder> I havent even SEEN a h1 for years now
[03:11:03] <ssi> but also hunting and shooting
[03:11:05] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: interesting.
[03:11:08] <ssi> that's kind of the entire point
[03:11:12] <Contract_Pilot> h1's are uber cheap now!
[03:11:28] <XXCoder> Contract_Pilot: really? probably because of its... drinking problems
[03:11:30] <ssi> anyone who owns and carries a gun and has never been to a shooting range is kind of a moron
[03:11:32] <XXCoder> 6 mpg hah
[03:11:41] <ssi> it's like someone who owns a car and doesnt' have a drivers license
[03:11:46] <XXCoder> my crappy van can drive twice as far
[03:11:54] <ssi> anyway I'm going to lie down
[03:11:54] <Wolf_Mill> here ya have one of the strictest states when it comes to gun laws http://chamspage.blogspot.com/2014/12/2015-baltimore-city-homicidesmurders.html
[03:11:57] <XXCoder> ssi: yeah if I ever get a gun
[03:11:57] <Contract_Pilot> Driving sheik khlied of the UAE's H2 in the desert sold me!
[03:12:04] <XXCoder> I will train up so I can properly use it.
[03:12:08] <Wolf_Mill> 290 murders this year
[03:12:09] <ssi> XXCoder: as you should!
[03:12:29] <ssi> I hope people learn how to use their tools before they use them
[03:12:32] <XXCoder> honestly I rather die than have a gun, but I know proper sane way of ownership.
[03:12:35] <anomynous> Wolf_Mill, those statistics dont tell me anything, really
[03:12:36] <ssi> that includes guns, cars, mills, lathes
[03:12:37] <ssi> everything
[03:12:51] <ssi> all those things can kill you if you mishandle them
[03:12:53] <Contract_Pilot> I think the state department said i could show them photos!
[03:12:56] <anomynous> Wolf_Mill, but maybe youre right. There could also be other explaining reasons
[03:13:22] <anomynous> like there is for our lower crime rates compared to yours.... in spite of ridicilously low penalties compared to yours
[03:13:24] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/PIC-0009_1-1024x768.jpg
[03:13:38] <fenn> the gun ban was because of the high crime rate, not the other way around
[03:13:40] <XXCoder> ssi: I just read about toddler that shot owner in car. he found gun in car :( bad storage
[03:14:11] <Contract_Pilot> the 3 stell's are mine!
[03:14:36] <Contract_Pilot> bad owner bad edu!
[03:14:49] <Wolf_Mill> XXCoder: thats what you call negligence
[03:15:27] <XXCoder> it is
[03:15:35] <Contract_Pilot> when my son strted smoking pot i took his arms i gave him when hen matures more he will get them back
[03:15:36] <XXCoder> basic training thats all I ask really
[03:15:56] <Wolf_Mill> thats required here too
[03:16:00] <Contract_Pilot> Agree just the basic
[03:16:02] <XXCoder> pot is virtually the most harmless drug there is. in least its not lots achcol
[03:16:18] <Contract_Pilot> but the basics are fround upon in society
[03:16:19] <Wolf_Mill> but inner city banger arent getting guns at the gun store
[03:16:31] <Contract_Pilot> no bb gun fights etc.
[03:16:35] <Wolf_Mill> or getting background checks, or licesne
[03:17:12] <Contract_Pilot> Shit, go to angola and the gangs here are fuccking pussys i laugh at them
[03:17:13] <XXCoder> quite ironically one of loopholes are police themselves. they take guns from criminials and sell em to gun stores, some are shady as hell
[03:17:17] <XXCoder> and guess back its back
[03:17:38] <Wolf_Mill> nope, cant sell them to gun stores
[03:17:39] <Contract_Pilot> angola scarryist plase i have ever been!
[03:17:55] <Praesmeodymium> north portland is the scariest place I been
[03:18:00] <Wolf_Mill> all handguns are regestered in Maryland
[03:18:10] <Praesmeodymium> I am real local lol
[03:18:31] <Contract_Pilot> I have been to 70% of the plant i seek from experiance
[03:18:32] <fenn> portland lol
[03:18:42] <fenn> hobos comin for yer weed
[03:18:42] <XXCoder> I live at tacoma. it used to be fill of many gangs
[03:18:46] <Praesmeodymium> and that wasnt scary, I wasnt there for drugs so no one payed attention to me
[03:18:47] <XXCoder> now theyre largely gone
[03:18:51] <XXCoder> good police work
[03:19:04] <XXCoder> tacoma in 90s wasnt nice place to live
[03:19:14] <Contract_Pilot> no pot town haha
[03:19:25] <Wolf_Mill> baltimore has gone to shit, thats why I live out in the sticks
[03:19:29] <Contract_Pilot> Police here are the problem
[03:19:35] <Wolf_Mill> I use to work in baltimore too...
[03:19:43] <XXCoder> Contract_Pilot: corrupt or thuggish cops?
[03:19:44] <Contract_Pilot> they are a gang them self!
[03:19:48] <XXCoder> cops full of murder?
[03:20:05] <archivist> they kill 6 year olds
[03:20:16] <Praesmeodymium> they are the enforcers of the status quo.
[03:20:30] <XXCoder> archivist: some areas police culture have gone bad
[03:20:38] <Contract_Pilot> here they just use the excuse to get to the next level!
[03:20:48] <XXCoder> I'd fire every police and get few cops in from other cities
[03:20:50] <Praesmeodymium> like loiusiana... operation broken shield
[03:20:56] <XXCoder> then train new cops to full staff
[03:21:39] <Wolf_Mill> part of the problem is most cops dont want to work in the shit areas
[03:21:47] <XXCoder> poticitians are like diapers, they need to be changed sometimes, for pretty much same reason. maybe its same for cops.
[03:21:49] <Contract_Pilot> I could care less when I Can Vanauatu is where i ill be!
[03:23:10] <Contract_Pilot> Flying trilanders over the largest lava lakes in the world! Eating US 16oza strak with the trimmings for 6.99AUD
[03:23:27] <Contract_Pilot> Austrailian or USD
[03:23:38] <Contract_Pilot> about the same!@
[03:24:31] <Contract_Pilot> We took all the street signs and jails are wooden portqables
[03:24:34] <Wolf_Mill> http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/police/careers/about.html oo wow, $48k yr starting for the first 5yrs
[03:24:39] <Contract_Pilot> hunting is a right
[03:25:14] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: 4k pretax a month
[03:25:14] <Contract_Pilot> fish for yellow fin off the doc's and eat free for the week!
[03:25:24] <XXCoder> more than twice mine
[03:25:26] <Contract_Pilot> if ya get one!
[03:25:33] <Contract_Pilot> No license!
[03:25:39] <Contract_Pilot> No fees!
[03:26:16] <Contract_Pilot> Best feef as it is endangerd!
[03:26:21] <Contract_Pilot> beer
[03:26:21] <the_wench> I am not your waitress!
[03:26:28] <Contract_Pilot> yum gum
[03:27:01] <Contract_Pilot> the_wench in the PI Manilla AF1 club
[03:29:46] <Contract_Pilot> LBFM http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_1485-1024x768.jpg
[03:32:25] <Contract_Pilot> next night she briggs her so called younger sister@! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_1502-768x1024.jpg
[03:33:34] <Contract_Pilot> PI LBFM's http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_1506-768x1024.jpg
[03:34:32] <jesseg> What is the syntax for G41 ? How do I specify the quantity of compensation?
[03:34:52] <Contract_Pilot> Yea! it is me! http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_1574-1024x768.jpg
[03:36:06] <Contract_Pilot> Just look at the wall!
[03:36:26] <archivist> jesseg, it is in the manual http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G41-G42
[03:36:30] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_1505-768x1024.jpg
[03:36:38] <Wolf_Mill> fuck I one thing I hate about this area, 80deg's+ one day, next its freezing out
[03:37:07] <jesseg> archivist, thanks!
[03:37:38] <Contract_Pilot> ohh have to delete them wife1q
[03:38:03] <Contract_Pilot> Fuck it she knows and is cool!@
[03:40:54] <jesseg> archivist, hmmm. I still don't see how the offset or radius is set. Maybe the gcode file doesn't know but the meachine knows by other means.
[03:41:53] <Contract_Pilot> k i an out
[03:41:55] <archivist> jesseg, erm in the first paragraph "The D word is optional; if there is no D word the radius of the currently loaded tool will be used (if no tool is loaded and no D word is given, a radius of 0 will be used)."
[03:42:20] <jesseg> archivist, yeah but how does the machine know the radius of the tool??
[03:42:36] <archivist> you filled the tool table
[03:42:36] <jesseg> Is that stored in the gcode file someplace? or another file?
[03:42:58] <jesseg> Oh, when you fill the tool table you fill in a form telling the machine who's where.
[03:43:11] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html
[03:43:25] <jesseg> Thanks!
[03:43:26] <XXCoder> linuxcnc gui for tools is bit awkward
[03:43:46] <XXCoder> but same time everything linuxcnc gui-wise is bit awkward
[03:44:07] <archivist> I hand edit and use the reload table option
[03:44:51] <jesseg> Ahhh, the tool table is a different file. Got it. Thanks!
[03:45:15] <XXCoder> archivist: so can have seperate files for different programs and so on>
[03:45:15] <Wolf_Mill> make sure e-stop button is easy to hit when starting to mess with tool table :)
[03:45:49] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: I need to add mine but control stuff didnt have any case till today. today it now has nice cardboard case
[03:46:01] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[03:46:03] <XXCoder> I really to make better one later
[03:46:09] <archivist> currently the tool table does not know about horizontal type tooling in a mill
[03:46:45] <archivist> eg gear cutters
[03:47:27] <Wolf_Mill> I'll probably only do length off sets with the table and let my cam handle the rest
[03:48:13] <archivist> does cam even know dear cutters!
[03:48:18] <archivist> gear
[03:48:30] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[03:48:39] <Wolf_Mill> guess it depends on the cam soft...
[03:49:00] <archivist> inside rear of skull cam
[03:50:32] <archivist> also the tool table has no room for hobs http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/data/hob/index.html
[03:51:27] <archivist> but that is specialised and needs axes gearing
[03:58:06] <anomynous> volumilling with a 16mm endmill with a .4mm feed per tooth is phun
[04:04:33] <awallin> depends, foam or steel? ;)
[04:04:40] <anomynous> steel
[04:06:39] <anomynous> .18mm chip thickness, really.
[04:21:49] <anomynous> the old thing im at can only feed 4000mm/min ;D have to increase rdoc to get more stuffs out
[04:32:01] <anomynous> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjnTPmLvF6Q&feature=youtu.be
[05:03:57] <chuckbob> Well, haven't had the greatest luck with this tuning
[05:04:05] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/eGHfzDk.jpg
[05:04:12] <chuckbob> this is where I am now, any suggestions?
[05:05:33] <anomynous> what are you doing and why do you have such an awesome looking cnc oscilloscope? ;D
[05:06:39] <chuckbob> i know... This is on a benchtop mill.. AMC 30a8 brushed amplifiers
[05:07:13] <anomynous> i know what?
[05:07:25] <awallin> do you have some smart order of doing things, for getting P, I, D, FF1, FF2 ?
[05:07:31] <chuckbob> the cnc oscilloscope...
[05:07:33] <anomynous> ive only seen oscilloscopes that are separate boxes :)
[05:07:43] <anomynous> and i have no clue what that graph is
[05:07:50] <chuckbob> this is a picture from my phone wih halscope
[05:08:00] <chuckbob> Not really awallin...
[05:08:15] <chuckbob> I have tried numerous things
[05:08:27] <awallin> take the wayback machine to 2008 and look at my graphs: http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/04/x-axis-test/
[05:08:45] <awallin> that was with pico PWM amps and a mesa card.
[05:09:49] <awallin> others should have similar example plots lying around somewhere.. if you can find them..
[05:10:57] <chuckbob> so, starting with P only, everything else at 0
[05:14:00] <awallin> yeah I have a feeling if you can get FF1 and FF2 working well first then the PID has less work to do...
[05:14:27] <awallin> ofcourse you need to have reasonal settings for max velocity, acceleration, jerk also on the trajectory generation side.
[05:14:36] <awallin> can't ask the poor machine to do unreasonable things..
[05:15:13] <chuckbob> this is using a mesa 4i65, same as the 5i20 just a pci-104
[05:15:50] <awallin> ok. my amps are "voltage mode" so the PWM output by thw mesa is more or less the voltage produced over the servos.
[05:15:59] <awallin> current mode or torque mode might be different to tune
[05:16:13] <chuckbob> i can set these in voltage mode
[05:16:40] <chuckbob> was actually trying to tune them that way originally
[05:16:41] <awallin> well in theory measuring corrent/torque and controlling that might be better..
[05:18:17] <awallin> do you have tach feedback to the drive? might make a difference... or just encoder feedback to the mesa?
[05:18:30] <chuckbob> just encoder back to the mesa
[05:19:02] <awallin> ok, velocity mode on the drive might not work that great then. I would try in either current or voltage mode.
[05:19:47] <ssi> chuckbob: I would try what pcw suggested earlier, start with D instead of P
[05:20:21] <chuckbob> I looked into that, seemed a little vague to me
[05:20:47] <chuckbob> so, setting everything to 0 except D, raise the value and try to jog?
[05:21:26] <chuckbob> i had increased the D all the way to 100 and the servo whined, without any stiffness
[05:21:46] <ssi> yea I don't really know, I haven't tuned current mode before
[05:22:21] <chuckbob> i am more than willing to switch it back to voltage mode and give something a shot
[05:25:58] <chuckbob> i'll be back in a few, going to get internet on that machine
[05:29:35] <awallin> anomynous_: was that cutting-steel-like-butter machine of yours running linuxcnc? or something else..
[05:43:21] <awallin> anomynous_: was that cutting-steel-like-butter machine of yours running linuxcnc? or something else..
[05:47:06] <anomynous> awallin, not a linuxcnc ;D
[05:48:04] <anomynous> having a linuxcnc on it would be cool, though ;D If I had a post for it. I could use python!
[05:48:47] <awallin> what cam is the volumill?
[05:49:23] <anomynous> volumill comes with several cams i think
[05:49:27] <anomynous> we have gibbscam
[05:49:50] <awallin> ok
[05:56:18] <anomynous> its basically making dynamic toolpaths. Cams can either can either control engagement angle or feed rate to migitate for Q or heat increase in inturns. Volumill reduces feed based on cutter and how steep of a curve it is doing.
[05:56:32] <anomynous> dunno if they do something else
[05:56:33] <anomynous> ;D
[05:57:23] <awallin> maybe you've seen my early attempts at something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfIU_gv0iB8
[05:58:24] <awallin> those cutting moves area all circular arcs
[05:59:00] <anomynous> cool
[06:02:29] <archivist> break through seems non optimal
[06:02:30] <anomynous> awallin, so you wanna make a oss volumill? ;D
[06:05:12] <anomynous> but it works
[06:22:06] <rob_h> linuxcnc + volumill realy slows linuxcnc down i found... its ok on cut moves but on the clearance fast feed moves thoes 3 axis arcs realy slow it down its abit better in new 2.7 when i tryed it other day
[06:22:29] <anomynous> you can disable the micro liftoff
[06:22:36] <anomynous> make it 0
[06:22:54] <rob_h> then u drag the cutter back over the surface?
[06:23:01] <anomynous> yes
[06:23:37] <rob_h> i found linuxcnc was ok to 4m/min or so over that it started to slow
[06:24:23] <rob_h> but dont realy do alot of vulumill stuff so dont play with it too much
[06:26:59] <archivist> have you put linuxcnc on the citizen yet ?
[06:27:11] <ssi> you have a citizen?
[06:27:17] <ssi> I'd love to see that thing running linuxcnc
[06:27:24] <rob_h> if linuxcnc could dual path i would
[06:27:47] <ssi> what does the code for that look like?
[06:27:56] <rob_h> just two or more controls in 1
[06:28:03] <rob_h> but u have 1 program file which is realy nice
[06:28:18] <ssi> do you need synchronization between them?
[06:28:32] <rob_h> control sorts it out, just have 0 as program start like normal in it... and have wait codes for sync moves,, on Mitsbuishi its !l
[06:28:38] <rob_h> on fanuc its come M code
[06:29:05] <ssi> oh so you can sync points in the code, but it doesnt' synchronize motion between them
[06:29:27] <rob_h> there are Gcodes which makes axis slaves and masters so can moves together. which just offsets one axis Z to the other so can you can pickup and machine realy realy with no crazy programming or offsets etc like some lathes
[06:29:37] <rob_h> citzen put some nice codes in there to make life easy
[06:29:50] <ssi> nice
[06:30:12] <rob_h> there is a G code to switch between sync moves, and run indipendant moves
[06:30:25] <rob_h> independent
[06:30:40] <archivist> we need to broow those codes for linuxcnc
[06:30:50] <rob_h> the old fanuc 6 we had , that was two controls and had to change between them to setup etc.. was a right pain
[06:31:01] <archivist> although some hal trickery could be used
[06:31:09] <rob_h> look on mail list, when someone saida bout multi control/sync i put a quick reply there
[06:31:14] <rob_h> and a Gcode file exsample
[06:31:44] <ssi> archivist: I wonder if we could do something similar by having two full instances of motion running in two separate sets of threads
[06:31:55] <rob_h> thats all you need
[06:31:58] <ssi> and provide some means to synchronize points in the code or slave axes like he's saying
[06:32:06] <ssi> it might be doable but it'd probably take some monkeywork in the core
[06:32:11] <rob_h> then just have 1 motion wait when it sees the wait codes
[06:32:13] <archivist> ssi you need to be swapping about mid run
[06:32:27] <ssi> sure
[06:32:32] <rob_h> you can have !l and just syncs and waits.. or you canname them like !l1 !l2 etc
[06:32:42] <rob_h> as some citizens now have 3 or 4 programs running together
[06:32:49] <ssi> hahah
[06:33:06] <archivist> mine has "gang" tooling too
[06:33:08] <rob_h> or if you realy posh and have a nakamura 4 axis well
[06:33:21] <rob_h> 4 turret i should say
[06:33:34] <archivist> in that two tools are on a rocker
[06:34:19] <archivist> mine shall wait till I get some funds and work for it
[06:35:48] <rob_h> i wish i could change to linuxcnc then i could intergrate the farfeed properly too
[06:35:53] <rob_h> barfeed
[06:36:12] <rob_h> here you go, a sample citizen program http://pastebin.com/rcbu8mVa
[06:36:57] <rob_h> just a simple turning job, face drilling with sub spindle/slide, and pickup and debur
[06:37:59] <ssi> I see, so it has two file pointers and seeks the second one up to the $2 and runs them concurrently
[06:38:14] <ssi> and uses the !L as "wait for the other thread to catch up" markers
[06:38:26] <rob_h> u got it
[06:38:33] <ssi> that's pretty straightforward
[06:38:46] <rob_h> $3 is a program setup bit. sets bar size, tool plattern layout type etc
[06:39:24] <rob_h> also part length so sets main Z offset correct . also how many parts to make per chucking cycle
[06:39:57] <rob_h> $0 i mean not $3
[06:40:29] <archivist> reminds me of the discussion of infinite cycles on the mailing list last few days
[06:40:44] <rob_h> but you are not limited to only programing Z and X to the main program for main X Z.. u can command X2 Z2 from main $1 or $2 can command Z1 X1 etc
[06:41:15] <ssi> hm but how?
[06:41:22] <rob_h> which makes it abit harder in linuxcnc, i found i only command the other axis set from $1 if i am drilling etc as its easy to keep track in the programs
[06:41:23] <ssi> Z1 is indistinguishable from Z1 :)
[06:43:18] <rob_h> guess you could say it is two controls in 1.. and paramiters say which "axis numbers" are what letters & to which control so can call them what ever you like
[06:44:03] <archivist> thinking of my machine I could be roughing on one too and finishing on another, only one Z needed just a minor Z offset on the tools and finish one a bit later
[06:45:29] <rob_h> yep
[06:47:48] <archivist> I can think of a way to write merged code but I dont think it would be pretty
[06:48:17] <rob_h> ud end up with alot of paused code points and tool dewells i think
[06:49:18] <archivist> hoping the trajectory planner merges the moves nicely
[06:53:43] <rob_h> i think if someone smart could just make linuxcnc run dual or multi motion & trajectory planners u would solve 90% of the it
[06:54:28] <rob_h> as i do see a lot of dual turret lathes etc for sale now days 2nd hand cheap just need a control change as getting on abit but still good machins other wise
[06:55:56] <archivist> need a machine, the smarts, the time to spare and the cash
[06:56:18] <justanotheruser> Is it possible to get linuxcnc running on one of these bad boys http://i.imgur.com/JFzgHLG.gifv
[06:56:42] <Jymmm> archivist: Tony Stark ?
[06:56:54] <chuckbob> Am I getting anywhere yet?
[06:56:57] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/9hoIEW1.jpg
[06:57:19] <archivist> justanotheruser, a white screen and a black border on my browser
[06:57:35] <Jymmm> archivist: It's an electric orange peeler
[06:57:35] <justanotheruser> archivist: does your browser do gifv?
[06:57:56] <archivist> no
[06:58:22] <fenn> just change .gifv to .mp4 and use mplayer
[06:58:25] <archivist> or dunno, imgur has bugs
[06:58:54] <fenn> anyway it's an orange peeler
[07:03:24] <Jymmm> archivist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man
[07:04:29] <archivist> Jymmm, do you have a screw loose, I dont see what that has to do with the channel or me
[07:05:04] <Jymmm> archivist: You described Tony Stark --> 2015-11-08.04:31:51 archivist: need a machine, the smarts, the time to spare and the cash
[07:05:39] <archivist> I made no reference to someone I dont know
[07:05:47] <Jymmm> LMAO
[07:06:05] <archivist> what is funny
[07:06:18] <Jymmm> It's a fictional character
[07:06:18] <archivist> you should look in the mirror
[07:20:13] <JT-Mobile> Morning
[07:21:50] <JT-Mobile> I see the new forum is up
[07:32:04] <malcom2073> Nice, much easier to browse
[07:32:40] <malcom2073> Though the css is funky, it's very skinny on my screen
[07:32:57] <malcom2073> Lots of whitespace on the left and right
[08:29:50] <zeeshan> who are you calling a mirror archivist
[08:30:14] <zeeshan> :D
[08:34:09] <Tom_itx> https://www.onshape.com/
[08:34:20] <Tom_itx> anybody looked at that one?
[08:35:21] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: prolly missing featrures
[08:35:24] <zeeshan> :P
[08:35:30] <Tom_itx> cloud
[08:35:41] <Tom_itx> 10 private documents
[08:35:47] <Tom_itx> unlimited public ones
[08:35:47] <archivist> I cannot imagine letting a third party mangle my data, cloud cuckoo land
[08:36:41] <zeeshan> cloud is a funny concept
[08:36:49] <zeeshan> they're saying anyone can access it :P
[08:36:58] <zeeshan> but like things like vault, pdm works already let you do this
[08:37:01] <zeeshan> and are much more secure!
[08:37:20] <archivist> cloud is the latest fad
[08:37:23] <zeeshan> with vault you can have a mirror vault in as many locations as you want
[08:37:33] <zeeshan> and anyone can collaborate who has access
[08:37:39] <zeeshan> it takes care of revisions for you
[08:37:48] <cnnx> hello I'm looking to purchase my first cnc machine, is this the right channel? I use gentoo linux as my main OS
[08:38:19] <anomynous> fad?
[08:38:24] <anomynous> new fancy term?
[08:38:56] <cnnx> i want something like an X-carve but pre-assembled
[08:38:59] <cnnx> does that exist?
[08:39:01] <archivist> fad something many follow for a while then drops by the wayside
[08:39:28] <archivist> anomynous, actually a very old term
[08:39:28] <anomynous> cloud will stay, but name may change
[08:39:29] <anomynous> ;D
[08:39:36] <anomynous> is it?
[08:39:51] <archivist> 1960s or earlier
[08:39:56] <anomynous> really
[08:39:58] <anomynous> i havent heard it
[08:40:29] <anomynous> at least not heard it being used for online storage
[08:40:30] <zeeshan> ill cloud you all!!!!!!!!!
[08:40:30] <anomynous> ;D
[08:40:35] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fad
[08:40:38] <anomynous> beware of zeeshan
[08:41:09] <zeeshan> pete!@
[08:41:10] <zeeshan> :p
[08:41:17] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/lRhHSXg
[08:41:20] <zeeshan> last nights action
[08:41:24] <zeeshan> fresh off the mill , no deburr
[08:41:33] <zeeshan> thats the kind of finish i was getting with those bits
[08:41:44] <anomynous> what are those
[08:41:49] <zeeshan> arrow
[08:41:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/yWSb35I.jpg
[08:42:01] <zeeshan> i hate engraving stainless
[08:42:05] <zeeshan> !!!!!!!
[08:42:08] <anomynous> book markers came to my mind, but theyre a bit big for that
[08:42:20] <anomynous> oh no theyre not
[08:42:27] <chuckbob> am I barking up the wrong tree? or am I anywhere close
[08:42:32] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/gRkUGzA.jpg
[08:43:03] <PetefromTn_> morning zeeshan and everyone
[08:43:16] <anomynous> zeeshan, just push with your spot drill at short intervalls for the text you want to engrave ;D
[08:43:20] <anomynous> maybe that would work
[08:43:23] <anomynous> never tried
[08:43:24] <anomynous> ;D
[08:43:28] <zeeshan> actually thats not a bad idea
[08:43:35] <zeeshan> because a really strong engraving bit looks like that
[08:43:50] <zeeshan> http://www.2linc.com/engraving_tools_tough_tip.htm
[08:43:57] <Tom_itx> won't come out as good as an engraving bit
[08:44:01] <anomynous> with spindle off ;D
[08:44:03] <PetefromTn_> you can just sand and brush finish those if they are not wrong otherwise
[08:44:05] <anomynous> no deburr?
[08:44:24] <zeeshan> thats his job
[08:44:25] <zeeshan> not mine
[08:44:28] * zeeshan doesnt finish here :d
[08:44:45] <zeeshan> im just the mill monkey
[08:44:52] <PetefromTn_> jeez those prices suck
[08:45:01] <zeeshan> yea dude
[08:45:06] <zeeshan> but if it can say do this entire job
[08:45:08] <zeeshan> it woulda been worth it..
[08:45:09] <PetefromTn_> and you got the hairy hands to prove it ;)
[08:45:10] <archivist> cnnx, looks rather flimsy
[08:45:15] <zeeshan> haha PetefromTn_ yes
[08:45:23] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, what happened to the left one?
[08:45:34] <zeeshan> haha
[08:45:40] <zeeshan> you pay too close attention
[08:45:44] <Tom_itx> setup part?
[08:45:47] <PetefromTn_> I noticed it too
[08:45:49] <zeeshan> yes
[08:45:51] <archivist> cockup part
[08:45:54] <zeeshan> offset was wrong
[08:46:11] <PetefromTn_> can't say you had too much tool stickout LOL
[08:46:12] <Tom_itx> just tell him a little putty will fix it
[08:46:23] <anomynous> its the test piece, duh
[08:46:38] <zeeshan> always a good idea for a test piece
[08:46:42] <Tom_itx> anom, that was pretty well understood
[08:46:43] <zeeshan> we're all human :P
[08:46:56] <zeeshan> i screwed that up by lining the tool with the old engraved line
[08:47:02] <PetefromTn_> except tom tom is not human
[08:47:03] <zeeshan> but in reality the origin was at the bottom of the part
[08:47:03] <Tom_itx> no, you're a monkey
[08:47:49] <zeeshan> how would you hold these on a surface grinder?
[08:47:53] <zeeshan> double sided tape?
[08:47:57] <zeeshan> cause they're not magnetic
[08:48:07] <Tom_itx> that or glue
[08:48:18] <PetefromTn_> I would just hit them with an inline sander ;)
[08:48:23] <zeeshan> hehe
[08:48:35] <Tom_itx> vibra tumbler and you're done
[08:48:37] <PetefromTn_> hey it works good
[08:48:45] <zeeshan> i was asking pete but i didnt get a response i think
[08:48:49] <zeeshan> do you have a tumbler?!?
[08:48:52] <zeeshan> i think thats the next tool i want
[08:48:56] <PetefromTn_> no no tumbler here
[08:49:07] <zeeshan> apparently you can load up fine side
[08:49:12] <PetefromTn_> I have looked at some commercial designs to try to build one
[08:49:15] <zeeshan> and tumble this stuf into an awesome finish
[08:49:25] <Tom_itx> it all depends on the media
[08:49:35] <Tom_itx> and how long you leave it in
[08:49:57] <Tom_itx> comes out with a nice finish though
[08:50:04] <PetefromTn_> damn things are very expensive
[08:50:12] <zeeshan> could you not build one easily?
[08:50:17] <zeeshan> its a motor with an offset weight?
[08:50:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah there are several buildable designs
[08:50:24] <Tom_itx> you could but why?
[08:50:25] <anomynous> PetefromTn_, what are?
[08:50:33] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: the cheap ones seem to be small
[08:50:36] <PetefromTn_> what are what?
[08:50:41] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, yeah tabletop
[08:50:42] <zeeshan> id want at least like a 24x24x24" capacity
[08:50:52] <archivist> see also barrel polisher too
[08:50:55] <PetefromTn_> yup tiny ones seem useless to me
[08:51:01] <Tom_itx> my bud started with one of those then got a free standing one
[08:51:07] <Tom_itx> about 3' wide
[08:51:10] <anomynous> a tumbler. Buy a concrete mixer and tumble there? ;D
[08:51:19] <Tom_itx> not the same
[08:51:21] <PetefromTn_> its been done
[08:51:32] <Tom_itx> oh i'm sure it has
[08:51:33] <anomynous> coat with some sprayable gum or something ;D
[08:51:33] <archivist> the noise, the noise
[08:51:34] <PetefromTn_> I saw a guy weld in some auger plated on one
[08:51:40] <anomynous> coat it ;D
[08:51:55] <PetefromTn_> I would imagine any coating would not last too long
[08:52:02] <anomynous> on the outside?
[08:52:14] <anomynous> and if inside coating is sprayable, it is easily replenished
[08:52:17] <Tom_itx> just stuff it in a room by itself
[08:52:25] <PetefromTn_> oh you mean soudnd deadening coating
[08:52:27] <anomynous> that too
[08:52:29] <anomynous> ;D
[08:53:00] <Tom_itx> just don't forget about it or you may go back and find no parts
[08:53:16] <zeeshan> i think you'd want the barrel to be plastic
[08:53:19] <anomynous> you will find perfect bearing balls, only theyre soft
[08:53:23] <anomynous> a good prank?
[08:53:24] <anomynous> ;D
[08:53:27] <zeeshan> for some reason im thinking it'd wear less
[08:53:32] <archivist> we had wooden oned at the clockworks
[08:53:39] <zeeshan> maybe not ;P
[08:53:58] <archivist> they used to break rather than wear
[08:53:59] <PetefromTn_> I saw a guy build one from a 5 gallon bucket and some motor driven rollers
[08:54:07] <PetefromTn_> probably a POS tho
[08:54:09] <zeeshan> haha
[08:54:40] <Sync> doesn't have to be PetefromTn_
[08:54:55] <Sync> ime vibratory tumblers don't work in small scales
[08:55:21] <Wolf_> seen a bunch of 5gal bucket tumblers for pin tumbling ammo casings for reloading
[08:55:57] <Sync> the important thing is to have a soft wall coating and for best results not round walls
[08:56:06] <Sync> so that the medium is carried up
[08:56:11] <PetefromTn_> http://www.risingsunwholesale.com/images/tumbler2.jpg
[08:56:36] <Tom_itx> do you need one that big?
[08:56:44] <Tom_itx> remember you gotta fill it with media
[08:56:48] <PetefromTn_> if you are gonna build one why not?
[08:56:52] <zeeshan> boss
[08:56:56] <Tom_itx> remember you gotta fill it with media
[08:56:59] <zeeshan> could even go in it for a roud
[08:57:01] <zeeshan> ride
[08:57:05] <PetefromTn_> and a 55 gallon drum would hold some large parts '_
[08:57:25] <PetefromTn_> cheap too
[08:57:34] <PetefromTn_> and you could weld to the inside
[08:57:46] <zeeshan> you know you could do the tumbling electronically
[08:57:52] <zeeshan> instead of leaving the motor on constantly
[08:57:55] <Wolf_> then all you need is 30-40gallons of media
[08:58:22] <PetefromTn_> LIKE A BOSS
[08:58:25] <zeeshan> give it different profiles
[08:58:28] <PetefromTn_> :D
[08:58:32] <anomynous> if you could source tumbling and use blasting instead ;D whats the thing called. When they blast some flammable gas to burn the burrs
[08:58:52] <PetefromTn_> I bead blast in my shop built cabinet a lot of parts too
[08:58:52] <zeeshan> anomynous: that is a cool process
[08:58:52] <zeeshan> :D
[08:59:18] <Tom_itx> media shape affects the results as well
[08:59:25] <zeeshan> yes project manager
[08:59:27] <Tom_itx> and grit
[08:59:33] <Tom_itx> oh piss off monkey
[08:59:35] <zeeshan> haha
[08:59:53] <zeeshan> i dont mind being called a monkey
[08:59:55] <zeeshan> suitable nickname for me
[09:00:03] <PetefromTn_> have you done anything to your lathe yet!!!!!
[09:00:09] <zeeshan> yes, i looked at it
[09:00:13] <Sync> zeeshan: you don't really need to stop the motor, just adjust the speed properly so that the parts don't get lifted
[09:00:20] <zeeshan> and gave it a bit of cleaning :P
[09:00:20] <Tom_itx> pete the project manager
[09:00:41] <PetefromTn_> hey I've been called worse
[09:00:53] <Tom_itx> well we all probably have :D
[09:02:03] <PetefromTn_> honestly while it would take a lot of media that 55 gallon drum type looks like a good idea to me
[09:02:19] <PetefromTn_> if you don't like how big it is you could always cut it in half or 3/4 or whatever
[09:02:28] <zeeshan> you could easily throw some manifold flanges in there
[09:02:34] <Tom_itx> are you gonna roll it or shake it?
[09:02:39] <PetefromTn_> but it is a relatively thick walled very round tube you can get pretty cheap
[09:02:55] <PetefromTn_> I would think roll it
[09:02:55] <Tom_itx> get some plastic drums
[09:02:59] <Tom_itx> they'd last longer
[09:03:03] <zeeshan> roll it at different speeds
[09:03:26] <Tom_itx> even 20 gal drums
[09:03:46] <PetefromTn_> beer keg
[09:03:49] <zeeshan> possible waveform v vs t /\/\___________/-------------------\_______/-----------\_________
[09:04:08] <zeeshan> i'd think as long as you dont keep it constant
[09:04:15] <zeeshan> you'd be forcing the media to mix
[09:04:34] <Tom_itx> you want a spray bar or such inside
[09:04:51] <PetefromTn_> woohoo my 24v 24p mini ITX power supply has shipped ;)
[09:05:01] <PetefromTn_> we'll see how long it takes to get here now
[09:05:13] <Tom_itx> what did you end up getting?
[09:05:15] <pcw_home> chuckbob: if you are tuning voltage or current mode drives you can usually get better performance by raising the servo thread frequency
[09:05:16] <PetefromTn_> that should be simple
[09:05:36] <PetefromTn_> that one we looked at
[09:05:39] <anomynous> zeeshan, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q21lyTKRes
[09:07:11] <zeeshan> my package is in tokyo:D
[09:07:12] <zeeshan> yayyyy
[09:07:15] <PetefromTn_> wow man I need a tatted up earringed up guy workin in my shop for cheap too
[09:07:23] <zeeshan> i hope it doesnt pick up radiation on its way here :P
[09:07:43] <Tom_itx> anomynous, would the introduction of gas affect the metalurgy?
[09:07:49] <PetefromTn_> naah the radiation is already here
[09:08:24] <zeeshan> i should get a dosimeter
[09:08:26] <zeeshan> im curious
[09:08:40] <anomynous> Tom_itx, dunno. You are asking the wrong guy, but i dont think so ;D
[09:08:44] <anomynous> im just a machinist
[09:08:56] <Tom_itx> they say test the part
[09:09:14] <Tom_itx> for changes
[09:09:33] <Tom_itx> but they should be minimal
[09:09:52] <anomynous> it did mention that about dimensions, didn't it?
[09:12:39] <chuckbob> What about this one? Also, where would be a good place to start with changing the servo thread frequency?
[09:12:44] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/Urc8TIe.jpg
[09:13:53] <PetefromTn_> man I would like to slap the crap out of whoever invented the benchtop drill press
[09:14:14] <chuckbob> The computer I am using has a low jitter.. usually around 5000
[09:17:51] <Sync> hmm, those thermal deburring things seem to be pretty simple
[09:18:14] <PetefromTn_> simple??
[09:18:46] <Sync> yeah
[09:19:33] <zeeshan> ps. my warm up program didnt work
[09:19:33] <zeeshan> ;[
[09:19:40] <Sync> you only need a blast chamber and gas metering
[09:19:43] <Sync> seems simple enough
[09:19:50] <zeeshan> i need to setup tool 999 w/ xyz = 0 offset
[09:19:57] <zeeshan> er
[09:20:02] <zeeshan> i need g54 to be not set
[09:21:02] <Sync> PetefromTn_: I have made a hydrogen furnance at work before, so eh, it doesn't really seem to be that different
[09:21:07] <PetefromTn_> your warmup program does not work?
[09:21:10] <zeeshan> yea
[09:21:13] <zeeshan> the one i posted yesterday
[09:21:16] <PetefromTn_> WTF man
[09:21:19] <zeeshan> :D
[09:21:25] <PetefromTn_> shits dead simple right
[09:21:27] <PetefromTn_> :D
[09:21:29] <zeeshan> supposed to be!
[09:21:30] <zeeshan> lol
[09:21:51] <PetefromTn_> Sync well show us the video of yours when you get it finished
[09:22:15] <Sync> there is no reason to make one for me, it just doesn't really look complicated
[09:22:17] <zeeshan> man i got rid of furrywolf for good i think
[09:22:21] <zeeshan> he hasnt been here for a long time
[09:22:32] <PetefromTn_> haha did you piss him off?
[09:22:41] <zeeshan> i just said i didnt need his help
[09:22:44] <zeeshan> and he rage quit
[09:22:48] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[09:22:58] <PetefromTn_> maybe he is .....er.....busy being furry
[09:22:59] <Sync> yup
[09:23:04] <Sync> I remember that zeeshan
[09:23:20] <zeeshan> sync tell me you dont need my help
[09:23:25] <zeeshan> i think its the magic words
[09:23:34] <Sync> :D
[09:23:39] <Sync> maybe I do
[09:23:40] <Sync> not sure
[09:23:43] <PetefromTn_> I don't need nobody's help ;)
[09:23:43] <zeeshan> no you dont
[09:23:47] <zeeshan> okay then pete
[09:23:47] <zeeshan> you.
[09:23:52] <zeeshan> will never see me again
[09:23:53] <zeeshan> bye
[09:23:59] <PetefromTn_> oh many I could use some on this infernal toolchanger
[09:24:02] <archivist> get your own toolchanger done
[09:24:09] <PetefromTn_> BAAAH
[09:24:12] <zeeshan> :D
[09:24:21] <PetefromTn_> NOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
[09:24:25] <Sync> D:
[09:24:32] <zeeshan> i wish he'd come back
[09:24:36] <zeeshan> he was enjoyable to talk to
[09:24:57] <PetefromTn_> when we wasn't telling about all his dildo adventures he seemed pretty knowledgeable
[09:25:02] <zeeshan> yes
[09:25:03] <zeeshan> haha
[09:25:49] <PetefromTn_> I remember when I first got on here I pissed some other guy off and he has not been back either
[09:25:55] <PetefromTn_> don't remember his name tho
[09:26:02] <zeeshan> haha
[09:26:12] <Sync> hm, actually I still need your help zeeshan
[09:26:44] <zeeshan> :D
[09:26:52] <Sync> I'm not sure if it is right to assume an exhaust system can be modelled as a helmholtz resonator
[09:26:53] <archivist> I need his Mikron
[09:26:55] <PetefromTn_> to be honest this is the ONLY place I have found online where there are people who really understand retrofits and are willing to share the information
[09:27:24] <Sync> as I'm trying to make sense out of the dyno data with different length headers and piping
[09:27:30] <zeeshan> are you modeling for noise
[09:27:34] <PetefromTn_> at least that are not MACH3 fanboys
[09:28:25] <Sync> no, trying to figure out maximum flow at which frequency
[09:29:09] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan speaking of flow ;)
[09:29:34] <PetefromTn_> Zack showed me a couple pictures of some drag racer guys Rotary iron porting jobs
[09:29:37] <PetefromTn_> JEEEZ
[09:29:44] <PetefromTn_> those guys are nutz
[09:30:03] <archivist> Sync, reminds me of a book I have Performance tuning in theory and practice, four strokes A. Graham Bell Haynes Publishing Group, 1983
[09:30:24] <archivist> iirc that has a section on exhaust
[09:31:13] <zeeshan> Sync: i've only used helmholtz resonance for noise analysis in class. you use the equivalent length, volume, cross section area of neck and speed of sound in a gas
[09:31:18] <zeeshan> to get the frequency of resonance
[09:31:19] <archivist> getting a negative pressure wave back at the right time to scavange the cylinder
[09:31:26] <zeeshan> but im not sure if that resonant frequency relates to flow somehow
[09:31:28] <zeeshan> prolly does
[09:31:39] <Sync> well
[09:31:40] <zeeshan> it prolly is the frequency of flow
[09:31:49] <Sync> my idea is, you have the end of the pipe
[09:31:50] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: haha they can get serious
[09:31:58] <Sync> going into the larger volume
[09:32:30] <Sync> which is the same as in an helmholtz resonator
[09:32:59] <zeeshan> the pipe should be continuous
[09:33:11] <Sync> so I can tune the volume of the header to the combiner
[09:33:19] <zeeshan> the cavity should be intersecting with the main pipe
[09:33:35] <zeeshan> http://www.deicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Helmholtz_resonator_image.gif
[09:33:37] <zeeshan> that
[09:33:55] <zeeshan> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Helmholtz_resonator_exhaust_manifold_(Autocar_Handbook,_13th_ed,_1935).jpg
[09:33:59] <zeeshan> haha they did make these exhausts
[09:34:01] <zeeshan> thats cool
[09:34:07] <Sync> yeah
[09:34:16] <Sync> that's if you want to cut down noise
[09:34:27] <Sync> but I'm not so sure if you can model the entire thing like one
[09:34:33] <PetefromTn_> http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/13B-VW-48.jpg cool vw
[09:34:35] <zeeshan> throw it in cfd
[09:34:42] <zeeshan> and just change shit till your velocity increases :P
[09:35:06] <zeeshan> haha pete
[09:35:08] <zeeshan> that is interesting
[09:35:14] <SpeedEvil> It's just a FIR filter
[09:35:31] <PetefromTn_> Id bet it hauls ass
[09:37:21] <zeeshan> i bet it does that literally
[09:37:38] <zeeshan> girls seem to be attracted to those types of cars
[09:37:46] <zeeshan> i always see some beat up looking modified car
[09:37:54] <zeeshan> with a hot chick sitting in it or driving it :)
[09:38:08] <PetefromTn_> I love those old Mk1 VW rabbit GTI's
[09:38:25] <Sync> well sure zeeshan :P
[09:38:33] <Sync> but I'm trying to make sense out of the guys dyno data
[09:39:30] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/Ford_Ad.jpg
[09:39:52] <zeeshan> ROFL
[09:40:32] <archivist> I dont think that VW stands a chance
[09:47:28] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVpj_lof6Us nutz
[09:51:37] <Sync> I know the guy who built the motor on that one
[09:51:47] <Sync> bought my mitsu from him
[09:54:31] <zeeshan-mill> moment of truth..
[09:55:19] <Sync> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ink_BA8AxI PetefromTn_
[09:59:45] <PetefromTn_> is that your colt?
[10:00:37] <Sync> nope, but his
[10:01:01] <Sync> bought a partscar from him
[10:01:20] <PetefromTn_> aah 4G63
[10:01:26] <Sync> he is now changing the rear axle to something american
[10:01:30] <Sync> with a 4link drag setup
[10:01:42] <Sync> because the stock mitsu solid rear end explodes all the time
[10:01:59] <Sync> "stock" gearbox tho
[10:02:20] <Sync> 2nd - 4th are straight cut with EDM splines
[10:02:39] <PetefromTn_> do those come awd?
[10:02:42] <zeeshan-mill> warmup is workingggg!
[10:02:44] <Sync> colts?
[10:02:45] <Sync> yes
[10:02:50] <PetefromTn_> huh
[10:02:57] <Sync> not in the USDM
[10:03:01] <Sync> and only 80 in austria
[10:03:04] <PetefromTn_> not here I don't think
[10:03:14] <Sync> but you can swap in the lancer solid rear axle
[10:03:28] <Sync> (lancer swaggon that is)
[10:03:29] <anomynous> i have a peugeot 206 16 valve 1.6!
[10:03:31] <anomynous> muah
[10:03:48] <Sync> the regular lancer had a indep setup
[10:04:05] <Sync> I have the 4g93dohc :P
[10:04:08] <Sync> 1.8 16v
[10:06:07] <Sync> http://sync-hv.de/autowagens/cao/4G93_1.jpg
[10:06:14] <PetefromTn_> my brother in laws son is building a pretty badass mk1 talon
[10:06:59] <anomynous> Sync, i dont care about engine so much in a car, but semi-stiff suspension is nice, so the car goes where you steer it effortlessly :D
[10:07:05] <anomynous> it also feels nicer to drive
[10:07:18] <Sync> well
[10:07:24] <anomynous> mine is a complete boat, of course
[10:07:26] <anomynous> :D
[10:07:27] <PetefromTn_> http://petefromtn.imgur.com/all/
[10:07:33] <anomynous> which is not fun at all
[10:07:37] <anomynous> but it goes forward and backwards
[10:07:56] <Sync> I got öhlinx TTX all around
[10:08:05] <Sync> ~öhlins even
[10:08:16] <anomynous> preadjusted?
[10:08:20] <anomynous> at factory
[10:08:32] <Sync> nope
[10:08:42] <anomynous> why buy öhlins, then ;D
[10:08:52] <anomynous> just kiddying
[10:08:58] <Sync> because I have all the equipment for chassis dynamics tuning
[10:09:21] <anomynous> wouldnt some other adjustable dampeners do it?
[10:09:32] <anomynous> without paying öhlins extra
[10:09:39] <Sync> http://www.attemptoracing.de/ got those in town
[10:09:56] <Sync> harder to get material specs for other shocks
[10:10:02] <Sync> so I cannot get them road legal here
[10:10:53] <zeeshan-mill> a random piece of advice.... dont skimp out anything encoder related. especially the shielding and mechanical wiring connections
[10:11:00] <zeeshan-mill> youll kick yourselff in the future for it.
[10:11:02] <zeeshan-mill> :-)
[10:12:05] <zeeshan-mill> i didnt know 4g93 was a dohc
[10:12:16] <Sync> there is the shit SOHC one
[10:12:21] <Sync> or the awsome dohc one ;)
[10:12:40] <zeeshan-mill> hehe
[10:13:18] <PetefromTn_> they can make somer serious power
[10:13:47] <zeeshan-mill> pete do you clean each of your tools taper
[10:13:50] <zeeshan-mill> before putting it in the spindle
[10:14:05] <PetefromTn_> tey to
[10:14:08] <PetefromTn_> try
[10:14:11] <zeeshan-mill> how do you clean it
[10:14:13] <zeeshan-mill> out of curiosity
[10:14:18] <Sync> well PetefromTn_, before I make srs powar with it, I'd rather swap in an evo
[10:14:33] <zeeshan-mill> EVO!!!
[10:14:42] <zeeshan-mill> too bad the new evos suck
[10:14:45] <zeeshan-mill> aluminum block garbage
[10:14:48] <PetefromTn_> lol
[10:14:54] <Sync> alublock = winning
[10:14:56] <zeeshan-mill> no
[10:15:03] <zeeshan-mill> f aluminum block
[10:15:03] <zeeshan-mill> cant handle boost!!
[10:15:10] <Sync> who needs bewst
[10:15:16] <Sync> you are restrictor limited anyway
[10:15:17] <PetefromTn_> me
[10:15:28] <Sync> in any sort of serious racing :3
[10:16:58] <zeeshan-mill> boost means women
[10:17:06] <zeeshan-mill> na means fat women
[10:17:12] <zeeshan-mill> no logic behind my statement
[10:17:13] <zeeshan-mill> but yes :p
[10:17:35] <zeeshan-mill> i love turbos!!!
[10:17:39] <PetefromTn_> serious racing?
[10:17:55] <zeeshan-mill> PetefromTn_, f1 even uses turboz!!
[10:18:05] <zeeshan-mill> and i consider that serious
[10:18:05] <zeeshan-mill> so sync's comment is a fail :D
[10:18:19] <zeeshan-mill> wrc is another example
[10:18:26] <zeeshan-mill> but youre right youre limited by a restrictor :P
[10:19:14] <PetefromTn_> FAIL
[10:19:20] <zeeshan-mill> PetefromTn_, walk me through you cleaning the taper
[10:19:21] <zeeshan-mill> how do you do it
[10:19:34] <zeeshan-mill> i usually take a clean rag
[10:19:37] <Sync> zeeshan-mill: which is what the evo is built for
[10:19:37] <PetefromTn_> I just wipe it with a clean rag ;)
[10:19:38] <zeeshan-mill> and wipe it
[10:19:39] <zeeshan-mill> okay
[10:19:51] <zeeshan-mill> just makin sure :)
[10:19:52] <Sync> group N rally yoloswagging
[10:20:00] <zeeshan-mill> not the new evo 10 man
[10:20:07] <zeeshan-mill> that is made to look ugly.
[10:20:09] <zeeshan-mill> :)
[10:20:10] <zeeshan-mill> jk
[10:20:30] <Sync> but eh
[10:20:37] <Sync> mitsu is not to be taken seriously anymore anyway
[10:20:43] <Sync> since they dissolved ralliart D:
[10:20:48] <zeeshan-mill> yea
[10:22:12] <Erant> What do you guys use to calculate feeds 'n speeds? I'm using fswizard and it seems... off
[10:22:51] <zeeshan-mill> use ur 2 formulas
[10:23:05] <zeeshan-mill> fswizard is really good as well
[10:23:43] <Erant> It spat something out that made my mill very unhappy.
[10:24:00] <archivist> I tend to adjust speeds/feeds to sound right :)
[10:24:27] <Erant> Something like 1k RPM, .5 DOC, .15 WOC, at 9IPM through 6061 with a .5" endmill.
[10:24:40] <Erant> I have to adjust RPM down because my mill's weenie.
[10:24:55] <archivist> often the calculators assume a real rigid machine not a small machine
[10:25:46] <zeeshan-mill> that sounds right for a 3000lb achine
[10:25:48] <zeeshan-mill> machie
[10:26:01] <Erant> Figures. I end up just forcing it all to like .10 WOC and adding a little more RPM and reducing the IPM.
[10:26:57] <archivist> impossible for the calculators to know your resonances
[10:27:07] <Erant> Of course.
[10:28:46] <archivist> someone should measure the rigidity of a few machines and write it up with method
[10:28:54] <zeeshan-mill> archivist, youre getting too advanced:)
[10:29:02] <zeeshan-mill> i find fswizard is very conservative
[10:29:06] * archivist ducks and dives
[10:29:08] <zeeshan-mill> on a rigid machine
[10:29:50] <archivist> my machine is closer to chinesium in the rigidity stakes
[10:30:15] <zeeshan-mill> erant
[10:30:22] <zeeshan-mill> i rarely use fswizard for quick jobs
[10:30:44] <zeeshan-mill> rpm = 4*cuttingspeed/diameter of rotating thing
[10:30:56] <zeeshan-mill> feedrate = rpm*number of teeth*chipload
[10:31:14] <zeeshan-mill> cutting speed for steel using hss is 100
[10:31:17] <zeeshan-mill> carbide 500
[10:31:28] <archivist> often when gear cutting the part resonates for me
[10:31:35] <zeeshan-mill> aluminum + hss tool = 250
[10:31:41] <zeeshan-mill> carbide 1000
[10:32:01] <zeeshan-mill> chipload is usually 0.001 for upto 3/16" cutter
[10:32:13] <zeeshan-mill> about 0.003 easily with 3/8 to 3/4"
[10:32:16] <zeeshan-mill> and much more for larger
[10:32:24] <zeeshan-mill> these are good starting values to put in those formulas
[10:32:40] <zeeshan-mill> for drilling and reaming, remember to divide rpm by 2.
[10:32:59] <zeeshan-mill> now youre a pro machinist
[10:33:01] <zeeshan-mill> :D
[10:33:37] <archivist> half again for blunt tools
[10:37:01] <CaptHindsight> it's easier if you just use the same mill and speed every time :)
[10:38:14] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[11:05:38] <CaptHindsight> "The PC specimen with 15% resin and 200% filler resulted in maximum compressive and flexural strength. The tensile strength was maximized with 20% resin and 200% filler." ah ha there's where I went wrong!
[11:06:34] <CaptHindsight> I was limiting myself to only 100% max :)
[11:08:02] <Erant> zeeshan-mill: Sweet. Thanks! That'll help. I'm mostly limited by my lack of horse power though. .3hp
[11:11:59] <zeeshan-mill> np
[11:12:03] <zeeshan-mill> i forget the hp formula
[11:12:26] <zeeshan-mill> for metal cutting :P
[11:15:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperDownload.aspx?paperID=39003 Usability of Polymer Concrete as a Machine-Making Material Regarding Fatigue Strength
[11:16:09] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: still there? Does this help you? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16038
[11:23:04] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: Thats a strange way to calculate percentages. mybe the original test hat "15 parts resin and 200 parts filler" in it and got edited to %?
[11:23:33] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yeah, who knows
[11:24:08] <Tecan> what material would be used for food grade alcohol o rings ?
[11:24:57] <CaptHindsight> with ethanol?
[11:25:54] <Tecan> an o ring that would not make stuff taste funny or degrade too quickly
[11:26:03] <andypugh> cradek: Thinking further about the string + spool + gearbox + resolver idea, I have realised that I can not bother with the string and spool, just connect a gearbox and resolver to the end of the ballscrew..
[11:26:07] <CaptHindsight> silicone
[11:27:43] <CaptHindsight> Tecan: http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance http://www.o-rings.com/engineering/nsf-fda-3a-sanitary/
[11:30:17] <CaptHindsight> Tecan: mcmaster-carr carries silicone FDA O rings
[11:31:47] <Tecan> handy
[11:31:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mcmaster.com/#silicone-o-rings/=zq0tgr choose ethanol and FDA
[11:41:36] <Loetmichel> Tecan: teflon would be a safe bet
[11:42:17] <Sync> viton, also
[11:44:59] <CaptHindsight> how concerned should I be with the effects of gamma radiation on my polymer concrete machine frame?
[11:45:23] <Sync> very
[11:45:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.unt.edu/LAPOM/publications/pdf%20articles/Lisa/jme33%201to2%2037%2052%20MartinezBarrerra%20Lobland.pdf
[11:45:30] <archivist> not at all
[11:45:38] <Sync> also depends on your dose
[11:46:23] <CaptHindsight> isn't that how the whole Hulk thing got started? :)
[11:46:54] <Sync> I like how it really helps the polymerization of resins :D
[11:47:45] <andypugh> I think that it sounds like you should try to irradiate your frame during curing. Any increase in E is good.
[11:48:53] <Sync> especially a ~3 fold one
[11:49:05] <CaptHindsight> yeah, just making fun..... it also seems that they don't involved an experienced polymer chemist when doing the research on the blends
[11:49:50] <Sync> I also wonder why they chose such strange filler blends
[11:50:39] <Sync> I heard that you really need to match them on their size and amount so that you can run extremely low binder percentages and get very high mineral factor
[11:53:00] <CaptHindsight> 7-10% resin has been getting the best results
[11:54:36] <CaptHindsight> adding fly ash to quartz raised the strength by ~25%
[11:56:36] <CaptHindsight> moisture should be <0.1%
[11:57:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jcomp/2013/948745/ covers lots of ground
[11:58:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jcomp/2013/948745/tab2/
[12:01:21] <CaptHindsight> I want to see how well a lathe made from thermosets and aggregates with air bearings will hold up
[12:02:28] <PetefromTn_> I think I finally got this damn 3 rotor flange drawing where I want it
[12:02:57] <CaptHindsight> fatigue strength looks like the main problem if metal, CF or glass reinforcement is not used
[12:18:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nanotechsys.com/wp-content/uploads/file/PDFs/Nanotech%20350UPM%20-%2004_01_10.pdf they lose a few points for mentioning sub-atomic resolutions
[12:30:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ijirset.com/upload/2014/july/48_Influence.pdf Influence of Resin Content and Cast Iron
[12:30:36] <CaptHindsight> Powder Addition on Vibration Characteristics of Granite Epoxy Composites
[12:33:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ijpret.com/publishedarticle/2014/5/IJPRET%20-%20175.pdf EXPERIMENTAL STUDIES ON COMPRESSION AND VIBRATION CHARACTERISTICS OF GRANITE EPOXY- AN ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL FOR PRECISION MACHINE TOOL BEDS
[12:51:47] <SpeedEvil> Damn. I was going to do the hulk reply to CaptHindsights gamma comment.
[12:55:42] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: weren't you going to try some concrete pultrusion or composite?
[12:56:51] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: yes - illness got in the way
[12:57:08] <SpeedEvil> I have some fibreglass that I was going to try pulltrusion with
[12:58:08] <SpeedEvil> Though I have recently been wondering about concrete+air bearing.
[12:58:15] <SpeedEvil> (and in sillier moments, wood+air bearing)
[12:59:47] <CaptHindsight> impregnated wood air bearing
[13:00:27] <jdh> anyone have suggetions for easily obtained RTV type stuff for potting electronics?
[13:00:27] <SpeedEvil> I see no reason you can't scrape french polish.
[13:00:43] <SpeedEvil> jdh: there is plenty of easily obtained, not very cheap though.
[13:01:07] <CaptHindsight> jdh: I formulate my own and purchase materials in drums
[13:01:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/solar-SYLGARD-184-SILICONE-ELASTOMER-ENCAPSULATION-KIT-/171562103188?hash=item27f1e5f194:g:-DoAAOSwofxUef4R
[13:01:31] <CaptHindsight> jdh: how much do you need?
[13:01:49] <jdh> 50ml
[13:02:15] <jdh> if that
[13:03:18] <CaptHindsight> jdh: what properties? hard, flexible etc
[13:04:12] <PetefromTn_> well the piece I got for these 3 rotor flanges is long enough to make all the parts but is like 3 inches short for the fixture LOL> It will still work tho
[13:04:24] <jdh> flexible. non-corrosive rtv would be perfect
[13:05:25] <jdh> actually, perfect would be available locally
[13:05:58] <SpeedEvil> jdh: what for/
[13:06:23] <CaptHindsight> jdh: 100% silicone caulk is an inexpensive possibility
[13:06:24] <jdh> ballast in an HID divelight
[13:06:28] <SpeedEvil> As a general point, if you can keep actual rain from falling on the comonents, and have power, heating to 10C over ambient cures any sort of problems
[13:06:29] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:06:53] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Castaldo-Quick-Sil-Two-Part-RTV-Silicone-Putty-Kit-2-lbs-/331520994833?hash=item4d3030ee11:g:WEsAAOSw34FVHc~1
[13:07:29] <SpeedEvil> The first one might in principle be useful because it's also designed to be very transparent
[13:07:38] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no
[13:07:46] <SpeedEvil> on reflection, potting a HID lamp would not go well
[13:08:04] <jdh> not the lamp, just the ballast and/or igniter
[13:11:47] <SpeedEvil> Oil is another option
[13:12:30] <jdh> yeah. mineral oil might be fine
[13:16:02] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK9ZYrqPHfI may be relevant
[13:18:12] <andypugh> jdh: Which country?
[13:18:40] <Deejay> re
[13:18:50] <PetefromTn_> Did I ever mention that my CNC Piece of shit Chinese vise is a Piece of shit?
[13:19:07] <jdh> andypugh: .us
[13:19:21] <andypugh> Does it have to be RTV? http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?text=robnor&x=0&y=0
[13:19:47] <andypugh> Ah, no help telling you that Maplin sell it, are 2 miles away and open on sundays?
[13:19:58] <jdh> heh
[13:20:40] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: 'over 18'
[13:20:52] <jdh> rtv would be good since it could be slightly overfilled also seal the end cap
[13:20:53] <SpeedEvil> I would like to see someone try to sniff epoxy
[13:21:08] <andypugh> Does anyone do glue sniffing any more?
[13:22:01] <R2E4> Hi guys
[13:23:30] <R2E4> andypugh: When using two motors on Y axis, not doing gantrykins or gentrivkins, not worried about the homing, Do I need to use two seperate pids?
[13:23:53] <andypugh> Servo?
[13:23:57] <R2E4> yes
[13:24:03] <R2E4> 7i77
[13:24:04] <andypugh> Yes
[13:24:25] <andypugh> You definitely need two PIDs.
[13:25:04] <andypugh> Ideally, and if possible, you would tune them one at a time, on the gantry, with the other mechanically disconnected.
[13:25:40] <R2E4> let the slave deal with its feedback and have the first joint sned the pos-cmd to the Aout?
[13:25:47] <R2E4> to both Aout
[13:26:02] <R2E4> IS that the basic concept?
[13:26:25] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: sniff or snort?
[13:26:26] <andypugh> But you can probably start with a bare-motor tuning on both then set the f-error to something not crazy-big and cautiously tune them, but keeping them identical.
[13:26:45] <andypugh> R2E4: Yes, two PIDs fed from the same position-cmd.
[13:27:27] <andypugh> axis.0.motor-position-cmd => pid.0.command pid.3.command
[13:27:41] <SpeedEvil> Be careful with the tuning. Or you can end up with two motor puree.
[13:27:57] <andypugh> So, but get the same command, but both use their own feedback.
[13:28:15] <andypugh> (both get the same command, I meant to type)
[13:29:14] <R2E4> yeah ok, I was trying it last night but I couldnt get it right because it is not tuned and I was just trying to get the two to behave with the same command.
[13:29:40] <R2E4> one would constantly turn until the the ferror
[13:32:13] <andypugh> Are you clear on how it connects now? one command, two pids, two aouts, a separate feedback for each pid, but only one feedback to motion for f-errror.
[13:33:30] <ssi> might be wise to bring both feedbacks in and somehow wire them via abs and max so that motion sees the larger of the ferrors
[13:33:38] <andypugh> If you want to get clever (and there is something to be said for this), you would sum the abs value of the pid-error term then add that to the motion.command and send the sum to motion.feedback. Then either motor can trigger an f-error
[13:33:42] <R2E4> I understand the concept, and almost had it last night.
[13:34:44] <PetefromTn_> just in case anyone does not already know.....http://www.mtu.edu/chemical/facilities/shop/slideshow/image66808-horiz.jpg = DRILL PRESS
[13:35:03] <PetefromTn_> http://tricities.craigslist.org/bar/5279249831.html = Frackin' Fisher Price Toy!!
[13:35:06] <R2E4> I seen a config last night the guy was doing that, but only handicapped joint. I guess he was trying to correct the ferror from the delay
[13:36:39] <R2E4> I will continue to work this out...... I may need to ask your guys help if I cant get it.
[13:39:14] <malcom2073> Hmm, I can set jog interval (or continuous vs intervals) via HAL pins?
[13:39:34] <andypugh> Yes. Halui
[13:40:47] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: I have had good luck with Ryobi stuff. That’s probably a decent enough drill.
[13:41:09] <malcom2073> I'm going to hook an arduino up to a knob for setting jog speed
[13:41:12] <PetefromTn_> decent enough for what drilling holes in swiss cheese?
[13:41:14] <malcom2073> possibly also run my wheel into it
[13:41:33] <R2E4> I successfully checked out and compiled linuxcnc.
[13:41:37] <malcom2073> for a pendant
[13:41:49] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about a machine you have only seen a photo of.
[13:42:45] <PetefromTn_> andypugh I have used a bunch of them in shops that refused to step up and buy a REAL drill press to know of what I speak here I am sorry if you disagree
[13:42:46] <andypugh> For a start, it wouldn’t have been able to go rusty if it wasn’t cast iron, so that’s a good start
[13:43:13] <malcom2073> Shops and home use are entirely different markets/neesd though
[13:43:20] <PetefromTn_> there are PLENTY of cast iron chinese pieces of shit out there man ;)
[13:43:35] <andypugh> Yeah, but Ryobi are Japanese.
[13:44:08] <chuckbob_> I have owned several pieces of ryobi stuff... Tossed all of hem
[13:44:30] <chuckbob_> Was not impressed
[13:44:30] <andypugh> They are mainly a casting specialist.
[13:44:32] <andypugh> http://www.ryobi.com
[13:44:35] <PetefromTn_> I have had several Ryobi tools myself as well and they are all gone now
[13:45:11] <andypugh> Reading that page, it is possible that the parent Ryobi company have nothing to do with the Ryobi-branded tools in the US .
[13:45:15] <PetefromTn_> I think I have a ryobi hand plane on the shelf in the shop and while it still works it is not what I would call any sort of quality
[13:45:15] <Sync> andypugh: their tools is TTI
[13:45:19] <Sync> which are from hongkong
[13:45:37] <Sync> they also own milwaukee and stuff
[13:45:51] <chuckbob_> I am sure they have things that are decent. Just nothing i cared for
[13:45:54] <PetefromTn_> besides what makes you think I was JUST talking about the Ryobi :D
[13:46:21] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: Because that for sale page is for the Ryobi?
[13:46:24] <malcom2073> :P
[13:46:34] <PetefromTn_> did you miss the craptsman in there ?
[13:46:39] <andypugh> I assumed that the Crafsman was there for scale, or something :-)
[13:46:44] <malcom2073> It's not in the post, just in the picture ;)
[13:46:59] <PetefromTn_> ah I am TERRIBLY sorry for the miscommunication
[13:47:12] <malcom2073> If you're going to nitpick silly things, expect others to do the same
[13:47:14] <andypugh> I have a load of these: http://www.ryobi-direct.com/PBSCProduct.asp?ItmID=15243715&AccID=103701&PGFLngID=1&gclid=CJOA2bXGgckCFYyRGwodl4AOMQ
[13:47:30] <malcom2073> My dad has a bunch of ryobi cordless tools, they're pretty awesome
[13:47:49] <andypugh> The cordless saw cuts through 1” aluminium moderately cheerfully. It’s not meant to, but it does.
[13:47:56] <PetefromTn_> I'm just saying that as long as people just keep buying piece of crap tools they will keep building piece of crap tools and guys like me that are looking for a deal on a quality used tool will only have piece of USED crap tools to choose from GHAAAAAA
[13:48:56] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Yes, if you want a Fobco or Meddings drill you are going to have to look harder.
[13:48:57] <malcom2073> Then there is no pleasing you
[13:49:12] <malcom2073> Sounds like you should buy new, not used
[13:49:13] <Sync> alzmetall is also pretty good
[13:49:14] <Sync> also flott
[13:49:29] <PetefromTn_> I apoligize for the outburst but now my Chinese vise is just the icing on the cake here that forced this unfortunate outburst :D
[13:49:48] <R2E4> or keep searching for older used. When they really built tools to last.
[13:49:57] <PetefromTn_> R2E4 EXACTLY
[13:50:10] <andypugh> Power downfeed is nice to have
[13:50:14] <PetefromTn_> I want another drill press here and looking to buy a nice used one
[13:50:24] <andypugh> That one that Keith Fenner has is lovely.
[13:50:27] <malcom2073> You have to find the right balance. All my hand drills are new, faster, more efficient, and lighter than old ones even though they probably won't last as long
[13:50:30] <PetefromTn_> but all I see are PIECES OF GARBAGE on Craigslist
[13:50:31] <Sync> haha PetefromTn_ you got one of those shits? http://www.kami-maschinen.de/werkzeugmaschinen/variation_niederzugschraubstoecke-typ-elv_p1.png
[13:50:54] <PetefromTn_> no I got one of the CNC model shits
[13:50:58] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: You're looking on craigslist
[13:51:01] <malcom2073> Stop looking on craigslist
[13:51:11] <PetefromTn_> I love craigslist man
[13:51:22] <PetefromTn_> it keeps me from insanity
[13:51:24] <Sync> cnc model?
[13:51:24] <malcom2073> Lol
[13:51:31] <malcom2073> Seems like it's driving you insane :P
[13:51:34] <PetefromTn_> I just keep searching and searching for whatever
[13:51:50] <PetefromTn_> Oh IT IS man it most certainly is...
[13:52:13] <PetefromTn_> Sync yeah the CNC models 6"
[13:52:31] <PetefromTn_> it was the first mill vise I bought when I got the Cinci because I was broke
[13:52:37] <PetefromTn_> then I got a Kurt D688
[13:52:42] <PetefromTn_> now its all better
[13:52:51] <Sync> well it is the basic concept
[13:53:01] <PetefromTn_> but occasionally I have to use the Chinese POS because the kurt is not 15" wide
[13:53:14] <Sync> I don't really like those
[13:53:14] <PetefromTn_> and I can't currently afford ANOTHER Kurt D688
[13:53:20] <PetefromTn_> Of course you don't
[13:53:25] <malcom2073> I just picked up a D60 for super cheap at auction
[13:53:29] <PetefromTn_> you don't like anything I do, say, or own
[13:53:32] <PetefromTn_> :D
[13:53:38] <Sync> that's not the case :D
[13:54:03] <Sync> I got two grinding vises
[13:54:12] <Sync> I scraped my chinese clone kurt
[13:54:23] <ssi> lol that sounds like a pain
[13:54:25] <PetefromTn_> I should scrape mine too
[13:54:29] <Sync> but the moving jaw has slop between the supports
[13:54:35] <Sync> so I had to braze that
[13:54:41] <PetefromTn_> like tie it behind my truck and scrape it down the highway until it disintegrates
[13:54:44] <Sync> and then my grinding vises turned up
[13:54:49] <ssi> PetefromTn_: that may take some time
[13:55:04] <PetefromTn_> meh what 20 minutes?
[13:55:05] <Sync> ssi: I got a biax ;)
[13:55:26] <ssi> nice
[13:55:28] <chuckbob_> Hey ssi, is this getting there yet?
[13:55:30] <PetefromTn_> okay gotta go do something out in the shop with my POS chinese CNC vise...
[13:55:32] <chuckbob_> http://i.imgur.com/Urc8TIe.jpg
[13:55:45] <ssi> chuckbob_: yeah I'd run that
[13:55:51] <malcom2073> Hmm, I need to make a speed handle for my vise
[13:56:02] <chuckbob_> I have been beating myself up over this tuning
[13:56:03] <ssi> you get what, 200u error on the accel?
[13:56:05] <ssi> not too bad
[13:56:21] <andypugh> u-inch or microns?
[13:56:26] <ssi> u-units
[13:56:35] <ssi> dunno what his machine units are :)
[13:56:37] <ssi> looks like inch tho
[13:56:42] <chuckbob_> Inches
[13:57:01] <chuckbob_> 80000 steps/"
[13:57:19] <ssi> chuckbob_: what happens when you tweak FF2?
[13:57:24] <chuckbob_> I am quite the rookie and this was a battle
[13:57:34] <andypugh> I hint of I should pull that steady-state error back
[13:57:43] <ssi> can you get that little ferror peak at the beginning of the accel to get bigger or smaller?
[13:57:56] <chuckbob_> It gets bigger
[13:58:01] <ssi> in either direction?
[13:58:13] <chuckbob_> Seems to be
[13:58:14] <andypugh> I think it looks like a bit too much P and not enough I
[13:58:28] <Sync> oh PetefromTn_, the d688 doesn't so so bad, just looked at the cross section
[13:58:31] <Sync> it seems they have learned
[13:58:39] <chuckbob_> I am open for suggestions
[13:59:10] <ssi> it's lagging behind when you start to accel
[13:59:12] <andypugh> Try I of about 1, then 10. See if it pulls the f-error line down closer, quicker.
[13:59:34] <chuckbob_> I am just a hobbyist and this is a desktop mill... Not rocket surgery here
[13:59:46] <chuckbob_> But i will definitely try
[13:59:47] <andypugh> I can’t decide whether the “fuzz” is excess P being controled by the D, or is just encoder dither.
[13:59:47] <ssi> no, not rocket surgery, just control theory
[13:59:49] <ssi> which is harder :)
[14:00:10] <andypugh> Well, control theory is quite an important bit of rocket science.
[14:00:16] <ssi> indeed :)
[14:00:25] <chuckbob_> Maybe encoder.. Cheap cui encoder using 1000cpr
[14:00:35] <chuckbob_> Could use the 2048 setting too
[14:00:49] <chuckbob_> Was just getting my feet wet
[14:01:08] <SpeedEvil> ssi: you can put the encoders on backwards in both cases
[14:01:27] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUrqdUyEpI is what happens if you over-tune the PID and run out of hydraulic fluid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUrqdUyEpI
[14:01:38] <SpeedEvil> http://gizmodo.com/that-massive-russian-rocket-explosion-was-caused-by-dum-731046792
[14:01:45] <SpeedEvil> Last week a Russian rocket called Proton-M exploded over a spaceport in Kazakhstan just seconds after it launched. Turns out, we can blame some dumb humans for the blast—investigators found that the rocket's angular velocity sensors had been installed upside down.
[14:02:28] <Sync> it is a stupid design
[14:02:34] <ssi> haha
[14:02:36] <Sync> you design those things that it cannot happen
[14:02:49] <chuckbob_> Should probably get some us digital units
[14:02:50] <andypugh> chuckbob: I have colleagues with PhDs in control theory.
[14:02:53] <SpeedEvil> 'It's OK, we have procedures so they can't happen'
[14:02:55] <ssi> Sync: make it idiotproof and the universe will come up with a better idiot
[14:03:10] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19
[14:03:15] <Sync> andypugh: the ariane exploded because of the wrong firmware iirc
[14:03:17] <SpeedEvil> One of my faviourites
[14:03:19] <ssi> chuckbob_: I'm sure your encoders are adequate
[14:03:33] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19#Damage_during_manufacture
[14:03:43] <ssi> chuckbob_: that axis is usable as is, but you could spend some more time with it and get that ferror peak out if you so choose
[14:03:48] <andypugh> The phrase is “Poka Yoke”, design things so that they _can’t_ be assembled wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke
[14:03:53] <ssi> I'd say leave it, tune the other axes, and get the machine moving first
[14:03:56] <ssi> you can go back and tweak it later
[14:04:20] <chuckbob_> I got the other 2 axis tuned to look almost exactly like that
[14:04:27] <chuckbob_> Less error on the z
[14:05:15] <chuckbob_> Just have to wire up the vfd still and interface it with the 7i33
[14:05:24] <ssi> you just need to balance your desire to get better repeatability against your desire to throw the thing out the window because you're frustrated and tired of tuning :)
[14:05:38] <chuckbob_> Haha
[14:05:42] <ssi> 0.0002" repeatability is pretty good for a hobby desktop mill
[14:06:13] <chuckbob_> Its a taig with servos and a 1hp 24000rpm spindle
[14:06:27] <MrSunshine> hmm, why does americans use the thick disk in angle grinders to cut metal with?! (the like 5 - 6mm or something) ... seen alot of people on youtube do that :P
[14:06:34] <chuckbob_> Not enough machine to be messing with really
[14:06:43] <ssi> MrSunshine: what exactly does it have to do with nationality?
[14:07:01] <MrSunshine> ssi: cause its americans ive seen do it .. no one else =)
[14:07:13] <ssi> the rest of the world uses a hacksaw I guess
[14:07:29] <chuckbob_> I use a fiberglass wheel
[14:07:37] <ssi> anyway, despite the jingoistic bs, the answer is probably "because that's what comes on the angle grinder"
[14:07:52] <chuckbob_> Probably
[14:08:36] <MrSunshine> ssi: .. no .. they use 1 ... max 2mm disks
[14:08:43] <MrSunshine> not the frekkin grinding disks :P
[14:09:35] <MrSunshine> but yeah, most ive seen are not experienced metalworkers either :P
[14:09:42] <MrSunshine> so might be true what you juse said =)
[14:10:27] <ssi> maybe because only in america can non-professional metalworkers afford to go out and buy an angle grinder and a video camera and internet and a computer and make a video showing their lack of experience with their new angle grinder and put it on the internet for you to be critical of?
[14:10:59] <MrSunshine> ssi: haha ... might also be true :P
[14:11:25] <andypugh> No, they can afford all that in the UK too. But we are just more naturally talented with machine tools :-)
[14:11:36] <ssi> andypugh: yeah that must be it
[14:11:55] <MrSunshine> andypugh: hehe =)
[14:12:06] <ssi> andypugh: all fifteen people in the uk that do metalwork :)
[14:12:10] <MrSunshine> the rest of the world is simply more talanted in everything than americans ;)
[14:12:34] <ssi> MrSunshine: yes, your implication was perfectly clear in your inital statement :P
[14:12:50] <MrSunshine> =)
[14:12:55] <andypugh> Joking aside, the guy in these videos is a qizard with an angle grinder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s
[14:13:57] <SpeedEvil> I saw an interesting thing on 'scraping' using an angle grinder
[14:14:14] <MrSunshine> oh the grinding scare crow =)
[14:14:16] <MrSunshine> i like it =)
[14:14:29] <MrSunshine> always wanted more than one grinder but im stuck with one until i make more money =)
[14:14:47] <jdh> perhaps if you were more talented.
[14:14:49] <anomynous> more than one grinder?
[14:14:50] <ssi> that's funny, I have at least a dozen grinders
[14:14:59] <anomynous> what kind of a grinder
[14:15:00] <ssi> must be because I'm american
[14:15:05] <Sync> I have several cheap ones and two good ones
[14:15:43] <MrSunshine> a grinder costs like 10% of a month salery ...
[14:15:44] <anomynous> doesnt just one do it?
[14:15:48] <MrSunshine> if its anything to have
[14:15:58] <MrSunshine> anomynous: annoting to change disk =)
[14:16:13] <jdh> a grinder that cost 10% of a month's salary woudl be one impressive grinder.
[14:16:25] <andypugh> My dad, before he retired, occasionally found himself taking a couple of mm of of the working face of a ball-mill drive gear using a bunch of angle grinders. You need a bunch, as they need to cool down during 8 hours of continuous use.
[14:16:27] <MrSunshine> jdh: correction ... not a crap grinder
[14:16:29] <ssi> jdh: my surface grinder was about 10% of a months salary
[14:16:30] <anomynous> i use one so little. Changing it takes maybe 10 seconds
[14:16:32] <anomynous> anyway
[14:16:56] <duc> I used to have 3 but use the plasma instead of cut off disk but down to 4.5 and 7 in hrinder
[14:17:14] <Sync> MrSunshine: my cheap 39€ grinders are fine
[14:17:19] <duc> I hate cut off wheels
[14:17:33] <ssi> I just bought a sioux air angle grinder, it's extremely nice
[14:17:54] <MrSunshine> Sync: the cheapest ive had costs like 60£ and that one is CRAP
[14:18:04] <MrSunshine> sounds like the bearings are done for from the packet
[14:18:13] <jdh> how much do grinders cost in your world?
[14:18:16] <Sync> sure, but they live quite long
[14:18:55] <MrSunshine> jdh: a good one about 170 - 290$
[14:19:50] <MrSunshine> a real good one seems to run like 450$ =)
[14:20:01] <anomynous> which is a real good one?
[14:20:37] <anomynous> and why is it so much more expensive? If its good, then buy that and keep it in good shape? ;D
[14:20:38] <MrSunshine> ahh no
[14:20:42] <MrSunshine> that was not the grinders =)
[14:21:07] <MrSunshine> about 170$ then for a quite good one =)
[14:21:13] <MrSunshine> metabo in that case
[14:21:26] <R2E4> What is hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.7i77.0.1.analogena ? I see this on some hal configs and some i do not. Only appears once. I dont have it on my VMC. Pncconf is putting it in there.
[14:21:48] <ssi> R2E4: enables the servo drive outputs I believe?
[14:22:06] <andypugh> analog enable
[14:22:47] <MrSunshine> anomynous: sweden ... everything is like twice as expensive like the rest of the world cause we pay as a company like 80% taxes on everything we sell :P
[14:23:07] <anomynous> dont complain
[14:23:14] <jdh> a talent for taxatino
[14:23:16] <anomynous> you dont have to pay for your medical care or education
[14:23:23] <MrSunshine> anomynous: hah
[14:23:31] <MrSunshine> we do .. WITH TAXES
[14:23:32] <MrSunshine> :P
[14:23:35] <anomynous> americans take a loan size of your loan for your house to study
[14:23:38] <anomynous> of course
[14:23:43] <anomynous> but with taxes anyone can study
[14:23:48] <MrSunshine> so by the time you get there you have payed for both yourself and 10 other people using the money you earn
[14:23:49] <anomynous> who is willing and able
[14:24:14] <MrSunshine> anomynous: so do we .. as we nee dto live
[14:24:24] <jdh> I have two kids in college. there are no house sized loans
[14:24:27] <MrSunshine> sure the actual education might be free, but living and eating is not
[14:24:41] <MrSunshine> so most people who study alot get to pay back loans to CSN for like 20 years afterwards
[14:24:45] <anomynous> so? If you hadnt been paid for youd likely (by all likelihoods) would be born somewhere in india and would be cheap labouring or something
[14:25:07] <anomynous> hard work this and that is just imagination
[14:25:51] <anomynous> do you know, there was this psychological test where people were made to play monopoly and the setup was obviously favourable for one player
[14:25:58] <ssi> andypugh: I truly don't understand why these guys are putting this much effort into this car
[14:26:05] <anomynous> at first that one player tended to be kinda sorry for being in such a position
[14:26:12] <Sync> ssi: because of the swag
[14:26:19] <anomynous> but soon as game progressed took even arrogant attitude
[14:26:35] <andypugh> ssi: Because it’s an interesting project.
[14:26:52] <ssi> andypugh: they're building a car frmo scratch with replacement body panels :P
[14:27:03] <andypugh> ssi: And your point is?
[14:27:24] <ssi> I dunno, just doesn't seem like the best allocation of time :)
[14:27:41] <andypugh> (One advantage of doing it this way, is that they still have a road-registered car, just with an engine swap)
[14:27:59] <ssi> why not just start with a diferent body and weld in the vin plate? :D
[14:28:52] <malcom2073> Oh sweet, halui has position output too, so I can have my pendant have DRO feedback
[14:29:38] <ssi> andypugh: their jig is crazy too
[14:30:21] <andypugh> I copied their jig to make my lathe-mover
[14:30:29] <andypugh> (well, some ideas from it)
[14:31:04] <PetefromTn_> some serious brittish humor in that one
[14:31:34] <ssi> time to wander off and find some food
[14:32:22] <PetefromTn_> Hey I might need a working onesie
[14:32:37] <Sync> PetefromTn_: they are awesome with their humor
[14:32:41] <ssi> coveralls? :P
[14:34:22] <PetefromTn_> needs MOAR TURBO
[14:35:30] <PetefromTn_> heh it only took six months to make
[14:36:38] <chuckbob_> How complicated is it to get modbus and a hitachi wj200 to work in linuxcnc
[14:37:06] <chuckbob_> Am i better off just using pwm from the 7i33?
[14:37:07] <PetefromTn_> its SO complicated that I needed ZEESHAN to do it ;)
[14:37:15] <Duc> Question for the group. Current setup is 5i25/7i76/7i84 for stepper motors but I will switching to analog servo drivers with AC servos. What would be the recommended changes to the setup to receive in 3 encoder outputs and 3 10+/- outputs to control the servos
[14:37:36] <PetefromTn_> 7i77
[14:37:39] <malcom2073> You need a 7i77
[14:37:45] <malcom2073> Bah pete is faster
[14:37:56] <PetefromTn_> :D
[14:37:59] <Duc> Would like to keep the 7i76 to drive the stepper motor on the Knee
[14:38:04] <malcom2073> Yeah the 7i77 allow for controlling up to 6 (I think?) servos
[14:38:34] <malcom2073> How many daughter cards can a 5i25 handle?
[14:38:51] <chuckbob_> I dont have an encoder on the spindle
[14:39:18] <Duc> would a 7i44 (Eight Channel RS-422/485 interface/ RJ45 Breakout) tie all the cards together?
[14:48:16] <Duc> Looks like a 7i48 ( 6 channel Analog servo interface) may work.
[14:49:23] <chuckbob_> 7i48 wont work with a 5i25 will it?
[14:50:27] <Duc> I think your right
[14:50:30] <chuckbob_> I have a 7i48 and have used it with a 5i20
[14:51:15] <chuckbob_> I actually need to get rid of them.. Was a test setup that wasnt used
[14:51:22] <malcom2073> Hmm, think I can run vactra #2 in my automatic oiler?
[14:51:43] <Sync> why not?
[14:51:46] <Duc> Not sure If I can fit another card in the pci right now
[14:51:59] <Sync> it is vg68, it should not have too many issues
[14:52:02] <malcom2073> Dunno, don't know the first thing about lubricating the machine :P. Seems #2 is the choice for ways though
[14:52:12] <malcom2073> Ok for ballscrews too?
[14:52:22] <chuckbob_> What would you keep the 5i25 for?
[14:52:29] <Sync> I use vg68 for ballscrews aswell
[14:52:43] <chuckbob_> Stepper. I see now..
[14:54:01] <Duc> yea I hate to give up that ability since I will have 3 extra steppers and 3 gecko 203v drivers
[14:54:16] <Sync> sell them ;)
[14:54:46] <chuckbob_> I got so many things i should be selling... Couldnt decide on what i wanted..
[14:55:07] <chuckbob_> Have many ab ultra3000 units
[14:55:16] <Duc> I should sell them. Not sure anyone wants old ass bridgeport steppers
[14:55:20] <chuckbob_> A bunch of mesa cards
[14:55:41] <malcom2073> chuckbob_: You should, there's a multi-week backlog for buying mesa from the mfg
[14:55:45] <malcom2073> can probably sell them quick on ebay
[14:55:54] <Duc> Little suprised the 7i83 card doesnt have encoder input
[14:56:39] <chuckbob_> I have a 5i20, 7i37, 7i48, 4i69
[14:57:49] <chuckbob_> And a 7i37com... All are practically new.
[14:58:04] <chuckbob_> Just taking up space...
[14:58:33] <chuckbob_> Looking at getting a pair of 7i29 or 3 pico amps
[14:59:34] <malcom2073> Well I'll order a gallon of vactra #2, should last me a few years heh
[15:01:35] <ssi> Duc: hang on to it... if you're anything like the rest of us you'll be building more machines later :)
[15:01:51] <Duc> I have no doubt about that
[15:02:17] <Duc> I would like to try mill turning once I get the servos on
[15:02:19] <ssi> malcom2073: i have a gallon of vactra 2 that I use for my machines
[15:02:26] <ssi> I keep an oilcan of it on top of the bridgeport
[15:02:34] <malcom2073> Ohhh that's what else I need, an oiler can
[15:02:40] <ssi> ya
[15:02:41] <ssi> amazon
[15:02:42] <malcom2073> I need to get my auto-oiler woring
[15:02:45] <malcom2073> this mill has zero oil points
[15:02:49] <malcom2073> it's all supposed to be automatic
[15:04:41] <Duc> whats wrong with the auto-oiler?
[15:08:56] <malcom2073> I pulled one of the tubes out when I pulled the ram off
[15:09:01] <malcom2073> crushed it when I set the ram on the ground heh
[15:09:24] <malcom2073> Plus, it sat outside for a year anyway, it looks pretty ratty
[15:09:28] <malcom2073> probably need to pull it apart and clean it up
[15:09:31] <Duc> ebay?
[15:09:49] <malcom2073> Nah it was on the mill I bought off a local guy
[15:11:34] <Duc> I think china makes a rip off bijur pump
[15:11:57] <malcom2073> I'm sure the pump is fine, probably just needs cleaning up. May need new tubes though
[15:12:47] <andypugh> duc: You can connect the 7i77 to the second 25-pin header on the 5i25
[15:14:57] <Duc> andypugh: thanks. That will make it easier. Can the 7i76 or 7i77 be controlled by the serial interface
[15:15:45] <andypugh> chuckbob: There is a specific HAL component for the WJ200, but the man page is a bit sparse. Look in the .comp source file for more info
[15:17:05] <andypugh> duc: Parts of both are serial interfaced, so with the right bitfile it might be possible. The bits that aren’t are the stepgens, encoders and PWM.
[15:18:08] <andypugh> You can sort of figure that out by looking at which terminals on the 7i76 and 7i77 don’t have a matching pin on the DB25 connector
[15:19:21] <Duc> andypugh: In the future I will need to install another 7i84 in my control panel for rotary switches but the 7i76 or 7i77 only includes 1 serial interface at this time. If i remove the 7i76, then Im down to 1 serial interface and not sure out I could place another 7i84 card in the system. Hope that makes sense
[15:20:38] <chuckbob_> Any idea if the 7i29 has a split 50 conductor cable to run two at the same time?
[15:20:39] <andypugh> You can have 7i76 + 7i84 on the DB25 and then a 7i77 and second 7i84 on the second header.
[15:21:20] <ssi> Duc: so what do you need exactly? three servos and one stepper?
[15:21:22] <Sync> malcom2073: don't be so sure
[15:21:26] <Duc> my current control panel http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/20140427_154530_zpsrg0mpczc.jpg
[15:21:32] <Sync> if you oil often, a lot will go through
[15:22:06] <Duc> ssi: I will probably just get rid of all the stepper stuff. Just sounds like a boon doggle and purchase another servo driver
[15:22:14] <ssi> yeah that's probably wise
[15:22:28] <ssi> I'd just hate to waste all those unused stepper and servo interface lines on a 7i76 AND a 7i77
[15:22:35] <ssi> love the control panel btw :)
[15:22:48] <andypugh> chuckbob: You can just connect both 7i29s to a single (3-plug) cable. There is a jumper to tell the 7i29 which lines to pay attention to.
[15:22:53] <ssi> I've always wanted to build a nice panel but havent gotten around to it
[15:22:56] <chuckbob_> Well, the 7i29 is out of stock..
[15:22:58] <Duc> 22inch monitor and a panel I bought off ebay for
[15:23:12] <Duc> 100 dollars. just wanted the MPG that was on it
[15:23:19] <chuckbob_> Ok, where does one get that cable?
[15:23:28] <ssi> Duc: wow worth it
[15:23:30] <ssi> I want one :)
[15:24:29] <andypugh> chuckbob: Out of stock here too: http://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=273&search=7i29&description=true&sub_category=true
[15:25:26] <Duc> andypugh: can the 7i44 work on the 25 pin header on the 5i25?
[15:25:31] <andypugh> chuckbob: you can buy the cable and squeeze the plugs on with a vice.
[15:25:42] <chuckbob_> Thought so
[15:26:01] <chuckbob_> Has anyone here used a 7i29?
[15:26:23] <chuckbob_> Seems to be several pico amps, just curious
[15:26:46] <andypugh> duc: No, not the 7i44, you need the 7i74
[15:27:29] <andypugh> (Actually, you could use the 7i44 but the wiring isn’t convenient)
[15:27:40] <Duc> in which way
[15:27:52] <Duc> I would need to adjust the pinout to make it work?
[15:29:04] <andypugh> The 26-pin header suits a standard parallel-port back-panel adaptor, then a DB25 cable can connect to the 7i44.
[15:29:23] <andypugh> Sorry, 7i74
[15:29:48] <andypugh> The 7i44 needs a 50-pin ribbon cable connector.
[15:29:54] <Duc> andypugh: does the serial interface work like a star network or ring? COuld i take the serial out put from the 7i77 => 7i44 then use the ports to connect to other serial cards?
[15:30:15] <malcom2073> Sync: ?
[15:30:18] <andypugh> You need to add a GND between each signal pin, it’s just not worth the trouble.
[15:30:27] <ssi> Duc: no, it doesn't work th at way
[15:30:35] <Duc> dam
[15:30:36] <malcom2073> I actually am out in the garage now, took off the back panel of the mill and peeked inside, looks like the auto-oiler is dripping oil from the broken tube
[15:30:46] <andypugh> No, only one device per physical serial channel
[15:30:48] <malcom2073> So I may just be able to get more tube, and see if oil gets everytwhere it's supposed to
[15:30:50] <ssi> I thought I read something about smartserial having the ability to have multiple remotes on one line, but I'm not sure that's accurate
[15:32:04] <andypugh> If you _really_ need to connect between 25-pin and 50—pin cards there is this adaptor board: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_80&product_id=285
[15:32:13] <zeeshan-mill> best part of machining. job done. paid.
[15:32:45] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:33:42] <malcom2073> Looks like they're 4mm tubes, I wonder if I can get compression fitting unions for them
[15:33:57] <Duc> what brand of mill?
[15:34:23] <malcom2073> Clausing Kondia
[15:34:34] <malcom2073> it's an old CNC Knee mill
[15:35:53] <andypugh> malcom2073: You can get push-fit extremely easily
[15:37:59] <Duc> andypugh: 5i25 flat ribbon to adapter then DB25 cable to 7i84 to get additonal serial ports
[15:38:04] <Duc> ?
[15:39:40] <malcom2073> andypugh: Yeah but where in the USA for metric? Ebay may be my only option
[15:40:15] <malcom2073> Hmm, wonder if pneumatic ones would work
[15:40:56] <andypugh> That’s what I was meaning, and I think 4mm is standard in the US too.
[15:41:04] <PetefromTn_> my new maritool facemill made pretty short work of bringing down the 7" wide plate to 6.125" plate on the parts I am making....Coolbeans
[15:41:38] <malcom2073> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009PT58UY/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
[15:41:42] <malcom2073> That looks promising
[15:42:19] <ssi> hm how do you change whether axis starts fullscreen?
[15:43:03] <andypugh> duc: You can’t gain any smart-serial ports with daughter-cards. Smart-serial has to connect direct through to a set of FPGA pins.
[15:43:36] <JT-Shop> ssi, http://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/21-axis/29735-axis-modifications
[15:44:18] <ssi> JT-Shop: thanks :)
[15:44:33] <Duc> andypugh: sorry typo meant 7i74 not 7i84
[15:44:58] <andypugh> duc: Yes, that works, but you then have to choose between 7i77 and 7i76
[15:45:47] <andypugh> Though for a singlr stepper motor you might want to look at whether it would run fast enough at 500Hz from a softwae stepgen running through GPIO
[15:45:51] <Duc> Ill just be going with 7i77 at that point. expanded serial ports is better
[15:46:17] <Duc> better reason to buy additional servos at a later date then sticking with steppers
[15:48:09] <Duc> brb have to grab rental car
[15:50:25] <PetefromTn_> way to go andypugh you just had to post that brit mini build so I have to watch the whole damn thing and get nothing done today.....THANKS A LOT DUDE!!!
[15:50:59] <andypugh> There are only 10 30 minute episodes (so far)
[15:51:11] <PetefromTn_> oh great
[15:51:16] <andypugh> But, it’s Sunday, sloth an indolence are mandatory
[15:51:41] <malcom2073> lol
[15:51:51] <PetefromTn_> well I will call you and you can explain to the guys at the shop why their 3 rotor flanges are not finished for me ;)
[15:52:17] <malcom2073> You probably don't actually want to do that :P
[15:52:28] <malcom2073> He will explain in detail, how sundays are for watching youtube
[15:52:29] <malcom2073> :P
[15:52:31] <PetefromTn_> meh dunno
[15:52:51] <PetefromTn_> my wife and kids are busy putting up our Christmas Tree
[15:53:38] <ReadError> bit early?
[15:53:42] <PetefromTn_> Maybe Santa will bring me a kickass new chuck and toolpost for my CNC lathe build
[15:53:59] <PetefromTn_> early? Naah....never too early for Christman man
[15:54:16] <PetefromTn_> if it was up to me I'd leave it up all year ;)
[15:54:46] <zeeshan> =D
[15:54:55] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: What sort of toolpost are you looking at?
[15:54:56] <zeeshan> christmas tree already?!?!
[15:55:05] <zeeshan> i hope a rotary! :D
[15:55:10] <zeeshan> then it will match with the rotary engine
[15:55:12] <PetefromTn_> har har har
[15:55:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't know really
[15:55:33] <zeeshan> man this one customer ive been dealing with is super picky
[15:55:39] <PetefromTn_> I mean everybody and their brother's mother has an aloris
[15:55:48] <zeeshan> i know he'll want 20 more of these parts in another 1.5 months
[15:55:53] <zeeshan> jacking up the price.
[15:55:55] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan WIN
[15:56:01] <andypugh> I just ordered a bunch of holders from: http://www.createtool.com/list.asp?cid=33
[15:56:04] <zeeshan> you knwo when you make a fixture for doing their work
[15:56:11] <zeeshan> you know right away you've got the customer for a while :P
[15:56:20] <zeeshan> cause they'll have to pay that fixture cost again
[15:56:28] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan yeah baby you OWN that guy now LOL
[15:56:39] <PetefromTn_> andypugh what do you think of them?
[15:56:46] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: I don’t particularly like Aloris, web research seems to indicate that Multifix is much more repeatable, which is useful on a CNC
[15:56:51] <zeeshan> pete: he was complaning about the normal facing marks
[15:57:00] <zeeshan> i can see reflection of text and read it, thats how good the finish it
[15:57:05] <zeeshan> he was expecting a completely plain finish..
[15:57:10] <PetefromTn_> bastard
[15:57:13] <PetefromTn_> :D
[15:57:21] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: So far, the price seemed reaonable, but as they haven’t arrived I know nothing more,
[15:57:34] <zeeshan> i'd just run a china one if its temporary
[15:57:34] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:57:37] <zeeshan> the wedge style
[15:57:53] <andypugh> (I oredered some unlisted blank toolholders, just the spline and adjuster, no tool slot, for a specific application)
[15:57:56] <PetefromTn_> naah If I get an aloris type I will try to get a genuine article
[15:58:20] <PetefromTn_> andypugh I have looked at those and they certainly LOOK nice
[15:58:40] <PetefromTn_> but are they rigid and what sort of holders are available
[15:58:42] <zeeshan> andypugh: if you have 2 materials. aluminum fixed to steel. assume its perfectly fixed
[15:58:42] <ssi> PetefromTn_: build a turret!
[15:58:58] <zeeshan> how would the stress strain diagram look like relative to if you were to test steel and aluminum by themselves
[15:59:00] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPzoNs9m2tQ
[15:59:06] <PetefromTn_> ssi That is the next step AFTER I get the damn thing working
[15:59:36] <ssi> if I ever build a turret toolchanger for a lathe, I'll make it take hardinge turrets :P
[15:59:41] <ssi> since I already have a couple :)
[15:59:50] <zeeshan> why would turretes be hydraulic on industrial lathes?
[15:59:55] <PetefromTn_> I know I can buy one for like $2k
[15:59:58] <zeeshan> vs air
[16:00:11] <ssi> zeeshan: maybe hydraulic is more reliable?
[16:00:12] <ssi> I dunno
[16:00:14] <andypugh> zeeshan: Tell me what you see and I will think of a plausible explanation, but I can’t decide just by thinking about it.
[16:00:35] <PetefromTn_> that one that your pals at microkinetics sells looks decent enough but I dunno
[16:00:46] <andypugh> You are going to get a wierd stress-state at the interface. Different bulk module, wierd contraints.
[16:01:06] <ssi> big lathes are waaaaay more complicated than big mills, lul
[16:01:13] <zeeshan> ssi i agree
[16:01:21] <zeeshan> i think its cause of the drawbar stuff
[16:01:25] <zeeshan> and hydraulic tail stock
[16:01:26] <ssi> cause lots of reasons
[16:01:39] <zeeshan> but other than that, i think its ok
[16:01:43] <ssi> multiple spindles, many many many axes, live tooling, independent crossslides
[16:01:53] <zeeshan> okay thats if you get a crazy one
[16:01:56] <zeeshan> w/ sub spindle :P
[16:02:00] <zeeshan> then youre talking 2 turrets!
[16:02:00] <PetefromTn_> mines dirt simple :D
[16:02:13] <ssi> did you see the stuff we were talking about this morning about citizen machines and multipath programming?
[16:02:21] <zeeshan> no
[16:02:36] <zeeshan> some of us work 7 days a week
[16:02:37] <zeeshan> :-)
[16:02:38] <zeeshan> haha
[16:02:38] <zeeshan> jk
[16:02:39] <andypugh> All the internet discussions I found about “what is the best toolpost” ended up with the Multifix owners triumphant.
[16:02:54] <PetefromTn_> andypugh lemme know how you get along with that multifix toolpost
[16:03:10] <PetefromTn_> why do you say that?
[16:03:43] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edJYIarO4R0
[16:03:49] <andypugh> I have the toolpost already, and some holders. From eBay. But I think create-tool were the source.
[16:03:52] <ssi> I'm noticing it looks like all their live tooling spins at the same time
[16:03:55] <ssi> is that common?
[16:04:10] <malcom2073> Most of them that I've seen have been like that
[16:04:16] <malcom2073> all the live tooling on a single drive I guess?
[16:04:19] <ssi> I have no idea how they run those live tools in a turret liek that.... air powered? electric with slip couplings?
[16:04:27] <ssi> are the live tools synchronized to motion?
[16:04:36] <malcom2073> Do they ever do a full 360?
[16:04:39] <andypugh> Argh! I can’t abide to see flat-sided gears in graphics.
[16:04:40] <malcom2073> Maybe just coiled wire
[16:04:44] <ssi> I dunno, my hardinge does
[16:04:47] <ssi> it only turns one way
[16:04:53] <ssi> but it doesn't have live tooling of course
[16:06:10] <ssi> eleven axes on that machine haha
[16:07:28] <MrSunshine> ssi: damn that looks like a nightmare to program =)
[16:07:36] <ssi> :)
[16:09:54] <andypugh> I wonder how many G-code “threads” it runs?
[16:10:16] <andypugh> Ah, they just said “5 channel, 11 axis”
[16:11:01] <ssi> I guess 5 channel means 5 simulateous paths?
[16:11:21] <ssi> would make sense, they have the three compound slides plus the turret plus the subspindle
[16:11:31] <andypugh> That’s my guess. It may be that any channel can use any axis, but not at the same time as another channel.
[16:11:41] <ssi> yea I dunno
[16:12:18] <andypugh> That sounds like a nice big project for LinuxCNC :-)
[16:12:32] <ssi> we were talking about it last night (or this morning maybe? my schedule is messed up)
[16:12:48] <ssi> it could be feasible to run multiple instances of motion and have some minor synchronization between them
[16:12:57] <andypugh> Yes.
[16:13:02] <ssi> the citizen code has multiple paths in it, $1 starts the first path, $2 starts the second
[16:13:16] <ssi> and then !L are sync points, each path will stop until they all getc there then they'll continue
[16:13:27] <andypugh> Sounds sensible.
[16:13:34] <andypugh> And actually do-able.
[16:13:43] <ssi> but the citizen can command path 1's axes and vice verlsa
[16:13:47] <ssi> dunno how we'd handle that
[16:13:54] <ssi> but one thing at a time :)
[16:14:21] <andypugh> Yeah, homing two axes at the same time would be a good start (ie, gantry)
[16:14:24] <ssi> I think it'd be awesome to be able to run two complete 9 axis envelopes concurrently
[16:14:50] <ssi> multiaxis homing works pretty good on my ja gentrivkins gantry machines :)
[16:18:38] <JT-Shop> I wonder if a golang controller would do that
[16:18:42] <JT-Shop> and more faster
[16:19:11] <ssi> go isn't necessarily faster than well written C
[16:19:19] <ssi> but it's easier to write fast concurrency in golang
[16:19:40] * PetefromTn_ and once again I don't know what the hell these guys are talking about
[16:19:48] <zeeshan> hi AndChat|407721
[16:19:49] <zeeshan> er
[16:19:51] <zeeshan> andypugh: :D
[16:20:23] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/D6YV3
[16:20:28] <zeeshan> im basically testing 2 diff polymers
[16:20:56] <zeeshan> trying to see if the data makes sense. p v strain makes sense cause, if you had one film that took an x load, and another film that took y load
[16:21:04] <zeeshan> then if you combined them, you would expect them to take x+y load
[16:21:41] <JT-Shop> I need to make a rebar pin puller for my farm jack
[16:23:26] <zeeshan> confused about the stress-strain curve :p
[16:24:55] <PetefromTn_> I'm trying to figure out what advantage the multifix toolpost has over the aloris type
[16:25:20] <zeeshan> im thinking of it as having 2 springs, one really soft, another really stiff. if you fix them together and subject them a load, then i think you would get a stiffness inbetween the two extremes
[16:25:45] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: looks like its got more teeth
[16:25:47] <zeeshan> for contact
[16:26:01] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: better tool-tip repeatability
[16:26:35] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: not sure if you saw this video
[16:26:35] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0Z2e5gTQ-0
[16:26:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.multixmedia.org/cammill/
[16:26:54] <Tom_itx> anybody hear of that?
[16:27:04] <PetefromTn_> LOL watching that one now
[16:27:44] <andypugh> zeeshan: Image the two polymer strips are not bonded. Pull them to half-way.
[16:28:20] <andypugh> Are they exactly the same shape and thickness? If not, what would be different if they were forcing each other to be the same shape?
[16:28:29] <zeeshan> 0.008" vs 0.005"
[16:28:38] <zeeshan> exact same shape and thickness yes
[16:28:45] <zeeshan> not thickness i mean
[16:29:01] <zeeshan> i did a test of the same material
[16:29:05] <zeeshan> bonded and not bonded
[16:29:10] <zeeshan> and boy are the results very different
[16:29:14] <andypugh> Are they the exact same shape and thickness half-way through the test, was my question
[16:29:22] <zeeshan> yes
[16:29:31] <zeeshan> i cant check thickness of the second film
[16:29:33] <zeeshan> cause i cant measure it.
[16:29:47] <zeeshan> =[
[16:30:17] <andypugh> Can you run an FEA? Would that explain things?
[16:30:48] <SpeedEvil> FEA: Now you have 10^14 problems.
[16:31:18] <zeeshan> hehe
[16:31:23] <zeeshan> i havent done fea yet
[16:31:35] <zeeshan> lets remove the fact that its 2 diff materials
[16:31:52] <andypugh> This would need to be advanced FEA, not simple elastic implicit stuff
[16:31:56] <zeeshan> i did this test to try to understand whats going on more. i took the same film. 1 layer. tested it. then 2 layers, bonded them and tested. and then 2 layers no bond
[16:32:00] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/V3N0Y
[16:32:02] <zeeshan> here is the result
[16:32:14] <zeeshan> notice how different the bonded result is
[16:32:48] <zeeshan> the pressure vs strain result makes sense for single layer. if you multiple the single layer p vs strain curve by 2, you get the double layer w/o adhesive
[16:32:54] <zeeshan> but the w/ adhesive gets crazy.
[16:33:11] <zeeshan> starts showing a 3 stage curve
[16:33:24] <andypugh> zeeshan: Well, the glue is part of the system, did you use that special light inextensible masless glue?
[16:33:50] <zeeshan> yes but why does the glue mean the 2 layers can handle less load
[16:33:53] <zeeshan> that doesnt make sense to me at all
[16:34:00] <zeeshan> vs 2 free standing layers
[16:34:14] <andypugh> There are thickness effects.
[16:34:29] <zeeshan> so youre sayiuung by bonding them
[16:34:32] <zeeshan> you localize the strain
[16:34:38] <andypugh> I seem to remember mentioning that mild steel become brittle when very thick
[16:34:49] <zeeshan> yes you did
[16:35:11] <andypugh> I am saying know this to be true, but I have forgotten why.
[16:36:10] <zeeshan> ill look up papers on laminates
[16:36:12] <zeeshan> im sure this is expected
[16:36:23] <zeeshan> maybe they can give an equation for it
[16:37:39] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: TY
[16:38:03] <andypugh> I can’t properly interpret your graphs because the dot styles in the key section all look the same
[16:38:22] <zeeshan> its circles square and upside triangle!
[16:38:29] <zeeshan> bastards always told me not to use color
[16:38:32] <zeeshan> annoying.
[16:38:36] <andypugh> (unless I make my window bigger, which I just did..)
[16:39:12] <PetefromTn_> I must say that the ability to index that multifix is very nice
[16:39:30] <PetefromTn_> but one thing that I see right away that kinda sucks
[16:39:55] <PetefromTn_> is that if you intend to ever make your own holders for it you have a bunch more difficulty making them than the aloris would be
[16:40:07] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'll tell you this, for CNC work I really prefer a fixed toolpost that can't rotate
[16:40:16] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: but theyre cheap to buy
[16:40:16] <zeeshan> :D
[16:40:23] <PetefromTn_> not really
[16:40:29] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Yes, granted. Folk have done it, and you can buy spline-only blanks for $32
[16:40:33] <PetefromTn_> like 60 bucks each for the simple ones
[16:40:35] <ssi> my g0602 has a phase 2 qctp on it, and it's set up with a shoulder in the base so t he tp is always square to the machine in the same place
[16:40:36] <zeeshan> o
[16:40:43] <ssi> I control tool angle with holder geometry
[16:40:53] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Which size are you looking at?
[16:40:58] <PetefromTn_> probably B
[16:41:00] <zeeshan> for what its worth, my piston style tool holder held .0015~
[16:41:17] <PetefromTn_> I would probably get a wedge style if I got the aloris
[16:41:18] <zeeshan> what!!
[16:41:20] <zeeshan> you need a ca!
[16:41:20] <zeeshan> :D
[16:41:21] <ssi> zeeshan: yea that's about what the phase 2 piston on the g0602 does
[16:41:35] <ssi> PetefromTn_: are you going to have a compound?
[16:41:45] <ssi> it probably never had one did it
[16:41:45] <PetefromTn_> no
[16:41:45] <zeeshan> i hope he says
[16:41:46] <zeeshan> HELL NO
[16:41:48] <zeeshan> :D
[16:41:58] <ssi> that was an issue on the grizzly too, I had to make a riser block to replace the compound
[16:42:04] <PetefromTn_> it has a massive block that used to hold whatever toolpost it came with
[16:42:08] <ssi> but that height is important
[16:42:22] <ssi> the riser block and the tool post and the size of tools you intend to use
[16:42:27] <ssi> all need to be in agreement
[16:42:37] <ssi> it's tricky to know what to get when you're looking at numbers trying to order it
[16:42:50] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan when I said B I was referring to the multifix sizes
[16:42:54] <zeeshan> oh
[16:43:07] <PetefromTn_> that is what the abom guy has
[16:43:13] <andypugh> I have finished my riser block pattern: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SPQQ70I_GFJ98Zec9LHmhtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink (on the left).
[16:43:31] <Crom> with the K40 working I should be able to generate a little cash to be able to by a QCTP wedge type for my sheldon 10"
[16:43:34] <zeeshan> you do some fancy+good work andypugh
[16:43:52] <andypugh> The prices do go up fast with size, but that’s true of all QCTPs
[16:43:57] <zeeshan> will it be cast aluminum?
[16:44:03] <andypugh> Cast iron
[16:44:09] <PetefromTn_> I must say he has some rather massive boring bars in those holders ;D
[16:44:10] <zeeshan> you can cast cast iron?
[16:44:12] <andypugh> (not cast by me)
[16:44:22] <zeeshan> outta curiousity
[16:44:24] <zeeshan> how much would it cost
[16:44:28] <malcom2073> andypugh: What is that, some kind of a pulley cover?
[16:44:29] <ssi> how much iron could a cast iron cast if a cast iron could cast iron?
[16:44:36] <zeeshan> lol ssi
[16:44:52] <zeeshan> i see sharp corners :D
[16:45:11] <andypugh> zeeshan: I expect those two parts to be £20 each. The big box was quoted at £80 but I am expecting £120
[16:45:20] <zeeshan> not bad!
[16:45:26] <zeeshan> you make the mold? or they do it
[16:45:43] <andypugh> They make the mould and decide on runners and risers.
[16:45:45] <ssi> molds are ephemeral
[16:45:55] <ssi> in sand casting anyway
[16:46:03] <zeeshan> now i mean the actual sand mold
[16:46:07] <PetefromTn_> where do you get the spline only blanks?
[16:46:27] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Create-Tool
[16:46:56] <Deejay> gn8
[16:47:04] <andypugh> They don’t list them, and they are on 2-week delivery, but they make them (and can make any special to a drawing)
[16:47:30] <PetefromTn_> wow the damn boring bar holders are $208 each
[16:47:31] <andypugh> Nina (I bet she isn’t really called that) answers email promptly and fluently.
[16:47:51] <andypugh> Yeah, those are crazy money even at the A-sizew
[16:47:55] <jubatus> I bet she isn't a single person either.
[16:48:36] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multifix-Grose-B-Schnellwechselhalter-Bohrstangenhalter-Drehstahlhalter-/221933034356?hash=item33ac3d5b74:g:nMwAAOSwT5tWO7yW
[16:49:03] <andypugh> jubatus: Darn! I was hoping she was single, she sounds cute :-)
[16:49:22] <PetefromTn_> they certainly look nice
[16:49:43] <andypugh> That’s probably a Swiss one rather than Chinese.
[16:50:11] <andypugh> My point is that they are sometimes cheap on eBay.de
[16:50:11] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExwXESx-Owk
[16:50:28] <ssi> andypugh: "sounds"?
[16:50:41] <PetefromTn_> all of that on a single aloris wedge
[16:51:04] <andypugh> That’s just crazy. Why use the wedge at all?
[16:51:12] <PetefromTn_> gives me a woodie :D
[16:51:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah I see your point
[16:51:56] <PetefromTn_> but with that thing or something like it you can quickly go from a small gang tool setup to a typical holder of course
[16:51:57] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: its because people is too bored to make boring bars
[16:52:12] <andypugh> You need a height adjustment for each tool separately I think.
[16:52:18] <zeeshan> defiunitely do
[16:52:29] <PetefromTn_> I think it is built into the holder somehow
[16:52:38] <andypugh> So, the QCTP isn’t thee for height adjust
[16:53:32] <PetefromTn_> gotta admit that is a pretty kickass setup tho
[16:53:49] <PetefromTn_> from collet lathe to typical lathe and back quickly
[16:54:07] <XXCoder> pretty awesome http://interestingengineering.com/diy-bicycle-cellphone-charger/
[16:54:50] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/5XRS0 additive manufacturing in china.
[16:56:49] <andypugh> XXCoder: That’s a slightly eccentric way to get electricity out of a moving bicycle.
[16:57:07] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:57:15] <XXCoder> I was wondering why not just tap tire directly
[16:58:10] <andypugh> Or a hub dyno
[16:58:27] <andypugh> He probably thnks that wind are is in some way more “free”
[16:58:41] <ssi> lol
[16:58:51] <XXCoder> edge is best for high speed, center if it needs more torque to generate power
[16:58:53] <XXCoder> depends I guess
[16:59:06] <XXCoder> if I reused old pc fan I'd use edge for faster spin
[16:59:39] <andypugh> I would scour junk heaps for an olf by dyno, and use whichever I found first
[16:59:49] <zeeshan> now i want cotton candy
[16:59:50] <zeeshan> ;[
[16:59:51] <andypugh> (err, old bike dyno)
[17:01:18] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pyle-PBDNC10-Pedal-Power-Bike-Wheel-Powered-Device-Charger-Dyno-with-USB-Port-/351494232907?hash=item51d6b05b4b:g:HioAAOSw~gRVzfZx
[17:01:47] <andypugh> They even do them with USB ports, but I pity the fool who took the “mounted” photo…
[17:02:03] <XXCoder> yeah it dont even close to correct
[17:02:05] <XXCoder> *isnt
[17:04:05] <andypugh> The built-in LiIon battery is a major upgrade to olde-style ones thought. The light will stay on when you stop
[17:10:38] <SpeedEvil> modern LEDs are up to about 30 times more efficient than 'traditional' lights
[17:12:35] <malcom2073> Lol that mounted photo
[17:12:55] <Duc> back from car rental
[17:13:18] <malcom2073> Get anything fun?
[17:14:51] <Duc> nissan Altima eh
[17:15:01] <malcom2073> eh
[17:15:19] <Duc> This rental place doesnt have any fun cars
[17:15:50] <XXCoder> deaf man apparently rhreatened to shoot up deaf school at dalas
[17:15:53] <XXCoder> dallas
[17:16:15] <XXCoder> school shooting is such a fine thing for deaf to adopt :P
[17:16:31] <malcom2073> I guess they just wanna be normal like everyone else
[17:17:25] <XXCoder> theres this saying - deaf can do anything but hear
[17:17:32] <XXCoder> that guy certainly proves it.
[17:18:32] <ssi> XXCoder: have you heard about the guy that teaches people how to echolocate?
[17:18:59] <XXCoder> yeah that falls under "what deaf can't do" column lol
[17:19:08] <XXCoder> interesting though
[17:19:12] <ssi> well yea but
[17:19:36] <ssi> there was a story about it on radiolab, and they were talking about how blind people generally are told their whole lives that they can't do all sorts of things
[17:19:56] <ssi> but if they are just given the freedom to do what they want to do, they can actually learn to get around way better than people give them credit for
[17:20:10] <ssi> instead generally they get coddled and sheltered and they never learn to fend for themselves
[17:20:13] <XXCoder> malcom2073: thankfully he was threatening via vp call with friend, and that friend reported.
[17:20:14] <ssi> was interesting
[17:20:26] <malcom2073> huh
[17:20:42] <malcom2073> yeah, I've heard that before ssi
[17:21:22] <ssi> the thing that was hilarious to me at the time was the people reporting on it were the same people who believe that the best thing you can do for poor people is give them free stuff :)
[17:21:47] <malcom2073> Yay liberals!
[17:22:53] <XXCoder> ssi: deaf is currently 80% unemployed
[17:22:59] <XXCoder> there is HUGE bias against hiring deaf
[17:23:04] <ssi> lol speaking of which, article about senate democrats wanting to regulate e-cigarrettes
[17:23:10] <ssi> caption is: "The Republicans want my weed, the Democrats want my vaporizer. I probably shouldn't even mention my weed vaporizer."
[17:23:20] <XXCoder> lol
[17:23:48] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:24:06] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: There is bias, and there is capability.
[17:24:12] * Jymmm shoves weeds into ssi battery charger and VG in his bong!
[17:24:30] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: so all deaf cant do jobs. good to know.
[17:25:02] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: Deaf can't do all jobs.
[17:25:03] <ssi> not sure that's what he said
[17:25:08] <SpeedEvil> Subtly different.
[17:25:15] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: hearing cant do all jobs.
[17:25:47] <SpeedEvil> Sure - but people with a sensory or other deficit, added to the normal range of human capabilities is likely to be able to do fewer jobs.
[17:26:04] <XXCoder> that includes dishwashing jobs?
[17:26:10] <XXCoder> because I couldnt even get thaty
[17:26:24] <XXCoder> and I have IT and CS jobs but couldnt even get that jobs
[17:26:45] <SpeedEvil> I note that at the moment, in order to be able to get employment, that employment would need to pay around $1000/hr, for 15 minutes at a time work, at irregular times, without counting transport.
[17:27:11] <SpeedEvil> I am not practically employable for health reasons - nomatter how compliant and reasonable the employer.
[17:27:50] <SpeedEvil> For dishwashing and similar jobs, it's almost certainly quite reasonable for someone who's deaf to do them, with minor adjustments.
[17:27:58] <XXCoder> my current job as cnc machinist? I had to go to training job for while, and I failed interview because specifically deaf few times
[17:28:06] <XXCoder> then I FINALLY got perment job
[17:28:31] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: so why 80% unemployment?
[17:29:07] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: I'm not saying tehre isn't bias - just that capability also exists. Sometimes it is cheap and reasonable to facilitate a disabled person working.
[17:29:18] <SpeedEvil> Other times. it is prohibitively expensive.
[17:29:36] <XXCoder> trust me when I know there is ways
[17:29:44] <XXCoder> my brother works as DVR
[17:29:50] <XXCoder> he see this problem constantly
[17:30:05] <SpeedEvil> Not everyone has the capacity to work - even with adjustments.
[17:30:10] <XXCoder> couple of my friends work as DVR
[17:30:12] <XXCoder> same thing
[17:30:24] <SpeedEvil> I assume that's not digital video recorders.
[17:30:28] <XXCoder> no
[17:30:32] <SpeedEvil> Because man, that would be a shitty job.
[17:30:35] <XXCoder> dept of voc rehab
[17:30:38] <SpeedEvil> ah.
[17:30:45] <XXCoder> helps everyone get jobs or better jobns
[17:30:59] <XXCoder> as well as help get nesscary stuff to help do job better
[17:31:17] <XXCoder> I finally closed my dvr case after well over a decade
[17:31:22] <XXCoder> almost two
[17:31:29] <XXCoder> it was that hard
[17:31:41] <SpeedEvil> You were born with no sound?
[17:31:45] <SpeedEvil> ^hearing
[17:31:51] <XXCoder> dunno, my mom probably screamed
[17:32:02] <XXCoder> yeah one of somewhat rare 100% deafness
[17:32:19] <XXCoder> nearly all deaf has even a trace. I dont
[17:32:26] <XXCoder> *of hearing
[17:33:12] <SpeedEvil> Can cochlear even work for born deaf?
[17:33:25] <XXCoder> I'm just glad getting older helped me on one thing, I can feel less vibrations
[17:33:37] <XXCoder> more sleep yay
[17:33:43] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: sure but why?
[17:33:49] <SpeedEvil> Just wondering.
[17:33:54] <XXCoder> my brains never really developed hearing centers
[17:34:13] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - I hadn't considered pre-birth audio.
[17:34:20] <XXCoder> and CT is... problemic and hotly contrested in deaf culture.
[17:34:21] <SpeedEvil> Even implantation at birth may not work well.
[17:34:26] <SpeedEvil> And yes, I know.
[17:35:17] <XXCoder> ironically with better nerve wiring skills doctor can easily fix my hearing
[17:35:27] <XXCoder> theres nothing wrong with my ears.
[17:35:36] <XXCoder> picture this
[17:35:44] <XXCoder> theres phone wire between center and house
[17:35:49] <XXCoder> wire is not connected
[17:35:57] <SpeedEvil> The aural nerve never formed properly?
[17:36:16] <XXCoder> yeah waardingberg symtom
[17:36:18] <renesis> that would be a trip, to be concious as your brain figures out how to process hearing
[17:36:20] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that's going to cause problems if you try to rewire.
[17:36:38] <XXCoder> blue eyes, white lock on front hair some minor changes
[17:36:49] <XXCoder> blue eyes are domiant, normally recessive'
[17:37:05] <XXCoder> not always affect hearing
[17:37:39] <XXCoder> honestly even if there is tech to do so
[17:37:47] <XXCoder> deaf is part of myself
[17:37:59] <XXCoder> same as inability to smell anything and few other problems
[17:38:11] <XXCoder> I got royally fucked over genetically wise lol
[17:38:22] <XXCoder> so many minor problems
[17:38:46] <SpeedEvil> I got great luck genetically. And caught a bug at age 12.
[17:40:09] <XXCoder> my dad wasnt genetically deaf either. he got serious illness and become deaf in 1940s something
[17:40:18] <XXCoder> my dad would be 89 now
[17:40:45] <XXCoder> my waardingberg come form mom
[17:40:48] <XXCoder> *from
[17:41:26] <XXCoder> my dad has this interesting story from ww2
[17:41:49] <XXCoder> he left school to join navy. he had friend that helped him get though process without being caught deaf
[17:42:25] <XXCoder> he worked for 2 weeks, till trash boy was sick, he had to take out trash himself (navy is VERY strict on roles and he souldnt have done it)
[17:42:45] <XXCoder> some high ranking guy was behind him and he couldnt hear him
[17:42:50] <XXCoder> so he was caught out
[17:43:01] <XXCoder> he was honorably discharged
[17:43:47] <XXCoder> basically he was disciping him for doing wrong job. he didnt react so he shouted. nothing. so he patted on shoulder with hand.
[17:45:41] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: what helps is he knew how to speak
[17:45:45] <XXCoder> being late deafened
[17:46:33] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - hence the earlier question about born deaf.
[17:46:38] <SpeedEvil> It's very, very different.
[17:46:45] <SpeedEvil> Same with blind people.
[17:46:53] <XXCoder> yeah assumed so
[17:46:56] <SpeedEvil> I found a fascinating study on braille.
[17:47:02] <XXCoder> my family is largely deaf
[17:47:17] <SpeedEvil> If you are under 6, when you learn to read braille, you can get up to several hundred wpm.
[17:47:28] <XXCoder> my bro has 4 children, one is deaf and 2 definitely carrier for waardingberg. one hearing
[17:47:36] <XXCoder> wow
[17:47:40] <SpeedEvil> If you start learning at 9 or older, you will top out at well under 50 in many cases.
[17:47:45] <Sync> zeeshan!
[17:47:50] <XXCoder> only 6 (or 8?) keys do help on speed I guess
[17:48:05] <SpeedEvil> Reading, not writing.
[17:48:12] <XXCoder> ahh
[17:48:34] <XXCoder> I tried learning braille. failed. lol
[17:51:20] <XXCoder> ahh more info I missed
[17:51:27] <XXCoder> vp call was to student in school
[17:51:33] <XXCoder> makes sense
[17:51:43] <XXCoder> as a student I would get scared and call
[17:56:46] <JT-Shop> Houston we have ignition!
[17:56:59] <XXCoder> whats up
[17:57:19] <JT-Shop> well the $50 board didn't fix the opener but the $55 board did... 50/50 guess as to which one to replace
[17:57:33] <JT-Shop> should have went large lol
[17:57:44] <XXCoder> your machines working now?
[17:57:47] <bz> which board?
[17:57:54] <JT-Shop> garage door opener
[17:58:10] <JT-Shop> yea all my machines work
[17:58:45] <XXCoder> cool
[17:58:51] <XXCoder> I just completed my cnc router
[17:58:56] <XXCoder> it now has drag chains
[17:59:11] <XXCoder> I still dojnt know how to install limit switches so thats on hold
[17:59:17] <JT-Shop> it was at my dads house and broke a few years ago so I swapped one of mine to his
[17:59:32] <JT-Shop> limits are easy
[17:59:46] <JT-Shop> just use some micro switches
[17:59:52] <XXCoder> I already has stuff
[17:59:59] <XXCoder> just uncertain on how to install
[18:00:27] <JT-Shop> on my plasma I used a couple different ways
[18:00:51] <JT-Shop> the BP Anilam conversion is a simple way, a bar on the axis that rides over the switch
[18:01:51] <JT-Shop> z limit http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/z-axis-02.xhtml
[18:02:38] <JT-Shop> got a photo of your machine
[18:02:53] <XXCoder> yeah in a sec
[18:02:58] <XXCoder> watching woodgears video
[18:03:00] <XXCoder> interesting1
[18:03:07] <XXCoder> http://woodgears.ca/laptop_table/knock_down.html
[18:03:40] <XXCoder> nice! ok lemme go take pics
[18:09:01] <malcom2073> I like that guy
[18:09:03] <malcom2073> his videos are fun
[18:09:07] <XXCoder> yeah
[18:09:25] <malcom2073> One thing I like about wood: You can make big things for cheap. Metal gets very expensive as you get larger... and *much* much heavier
[18:15:40] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc%20router/20151108_154059.jpg
[18:16:00] <XXCoder> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc%20router/20151108_154042.jpg
[18:16:26] <XXCoder> tests (big one was messed up by moving paper few times while running) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc%20router/20151030_161752.jpg
[18:17:34] <jdh> I keep meaning to put limit switches on mine, but still haven't.
[18:17:47] <JT-Shop> on X on the back side put a ramp thing on the fixed part on each end and a microswtitch on the axis
[18:18:02] <JT-Shop> similar on Y
[18:18:23] <JT-Shop> Z maybe like my plasma
[18:19:20] <XXCoder> interesting
[18:19:24] <JT-Shop> you don't want to crash into the switch just go past it and hit the hard stop
[18:19:27] <XXCoder> so it triggers when it unpresses
[18:19:39] <JT-Shop> no, trigger on press
[18:19:45] <XXCoder> your plama
[18:19:47] <XXCoder> z
[18:20:21] <JT-Shop> aye triggers on press, the lower microswitch is the probe input for touchoff
[18:20:39] <XXCoder> oh I see anothe switch
[18:28:14] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/bp-knee-mill/BP%20Limits.jpg
[18:28:27] <JT-Shop> that's how the BP Anilam limits are set up
[18:28:49] <JT-Shop> that's a simple good way
[18:29:26] * JT-Shop head to put some beef on the barbie
[18:29:27] <XXCoder> the woodgears guy uses non-dospiable diapers, nice
[18:30:09] <PetefromTn_> DAMN my wife is making my very favorite meal tonight!! Spiedino Di Mare' and it smells freaking Glorious :D
[18:30:19] <XXCoder> awesome
[18:30:22] <XXCoder> so...
[18:30:30] <XXCoder> wanna a visitor? lol
[18:30:41] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: interesting idea
[18:30:45] <PetefromTn_> you're a touch far away
[18:31:02] <malcom2073> lol
[18:31:15] <PetefromTn_> 3 rotor plates are getting done pretty good so far
[18:31:16] <XXCoder> I could put switches on Z head where it would get near enough to hit walls. for Y
[18:32:15] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop my CNC lathe has very similar homes and limits to that
[18:50:12] <Sync> PetefromTn_ zeeshan, dem connectors http://sync-hv.de/autowagens/autosport.jpg
[19:02:58] <PetefromTn_> Sync Neat er why did you want me to see them?
[19:04:07] <Sync> I thought you might appreciate proper racing gear ;)
[19:04:43] <PetefromTn_> aah they look like milspec barrel connectors but with funky colors ;)
[19:05:35] <Sync> deutsch autosport
[19:05:44] <Sync> so lighter and more robust than milspec stuff
[19:06:09] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUUR0eVkHA that was not an aloris it is a dorian toolpost apparently
[19:06:20] <PetefromTn_> I doubt it is more rubust than milspec :D
[19:06:26] <Sync> they are
[19:06:34] <Sync> they have a significantly stiffer spring
[19:07:01] <Sync> because F1 teams in the 90s have found out that a sequential gearbox bangs harder than a gau8
[19:08:08] <PetefromTn_> man I so cannot wait to be able to CNC turn parts like that
[19:08:53] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: That's awesome
[19:09:01] <malcom2073> no big huge spray of coolant either
[19:09:41] <PetefromTn_> I know man its pretty sweet looking setup
[19:09:51] <malcom2073> Someday I'll need a cnc lathe
[19:09:54] <PetefromTn_> apparently their toolpost is smarter than your average aloris
[19:10:08] <Sync> malcom2073: you always need a cnc lathe
[19:10:11] <malcom2073> Sync: For what?
[19:10:18] <Sync> for that odd compound curve that always comes up
[19:10:22] <malcom2073> heh
[19:11:11] <PetefromTn_> I used to use a pair of shop built radius tool cutters for that but I agree it is hard to imagine doing that stuff seriously without CNC
[19:11:38] <Sync> you can do most, if not everything without cnc
[19:11:40] <malcom2073> I don't do much stuff that I can really think I'd need a lathe for
[19:11:45] <Sync> but some things are more annoying than others
[19:11:46] <malcom2073> or rather, a cnc lathe
[19:11:50] <malcom2073> I have a manual lathe
[19:13:10] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8_2YkQG0hg This would be awesome
[19:13:15] <Sync> but yeah they are not as mechanically robust PetefromTn_ :P
[19:13:50] <PetefromTn_> so you say ;P
[19:13:58] <Sync> oh cool, they are making retrofit turrets
[19:14:13] <Sync> but mechanical failure is not really the case with them
[19:14:30] <Sync> but amazingly, even with all that stuff modern racecars still have electrical gremlins :/
[19:15:10] <XXCoder> maybe because they are actual gremlins
[19:15:20] <XXCoder> someone fed em after midnight
[19:19:38] <PetefromTn_> that turret looks heavy duty as hell
[19:19:55] <malcom2073> I like that turret
[19:21:04] <andypugh> malcom2073: You might find this interesting, if you have a long attention span, and nothing better to do. It is my CNC lathe making parts manually, in that I don’t use any G-code, I just use a set of macros to do power feed, then return, then power feed. I have macros for face, turn, bore etc. Put in the numbers, press go, but one operation at a time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIYMfyf4jDI
[19:21:05] <PetefromTn_> there's gotta be a simple way to design one of those or maybe integrate some other part to work
[19:22:16] <malcom2073> andypugh: I do I do
[19:22:18] <XXCoder> holy f
[19:22:25] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EdQq5iAGYs
[19:23:11] <malcom2073> I like the blue chip spirals
[19:23:20] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I'm not going to watch that
[19:23:21] <malcom2073> I saw the title
[19:23:23] <malcom2073> you can't fool me
[19:23:33] <andypugh> XXCoder: I think that is probably one that Youtube keeps offeeing me that I know I don’t want to see
[19:23:53] <malcom2073> andypugh: I agree, CNC makes even simple operatiosn like that *way* less tedius
[19:24:37] <andypugh> malcom2073: The constant surface speed is a huge win too
[19:24:59] <XXCoder> malcom2073: I knew it was clothes though
[19:25:00] <malcom2073> Ohhh yeah it is speeding up towards center
[19:25:00] <malcom2073> nice
[19:25:05] <PetefromTn_> which lathe is that andy?
[19:25:08] <XXCoder> long sleeves and long lathe not a good combo
[19:25:14] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I'd seen that before
[19:25:16] <malcom2073> in a gif
[19:25:33] <XXCoder> he got lucky though. hurt badly but could be worse
[19:25:34] <malcom2073> This is why I keep my garage warm enough to be in a tshirt :P
[19:25:38] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: That’s my super-nasty chinese pile of junk
[19:26:26] <andypugh> Much as I hate the Chinese combo machine, it’s not a terrible lathe, but it is a terrible mill
[19:26:37] <PetefromTn_> heh well that super nasty chinese pile o junk is making some cool stuff
[19:27:51] <andypugh> malcom2073: The second op, at about 6 minutes in, would be hard on a manual, it’s a tapered feed with a radiused exit
[19:28:01] <malcom2073> Yeah was just getting ot that
[19:28:47] <malcom2073> Haha running that screw in, you crazy bastard
[19:29:09] <XXCoder> another video mistake lol (no worries nobody was hurt) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4wimhqLOjA
[19:29:21] <malcom2073> Damn you made a lot of them
[19:29:41] <andypugh> I haz subscriberz!
[19:30:14] <PetefromTn_> you don't touch off to the part then?
[19:30:36] <malcom2073> It did a good job of cutting the head of that screw off
[19:30:36] <malcom2073> heh
[19:30:48] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yeah notice how FAR off it was after
[19:30:54] <malcom2073> heh yeah
[19:30:57] <malcom2073> steppers ftw
[19:31:32] <XXCoder> I wonder if can use steppers with encoders so positions are known
[19:31:37] <PetefromTn_> andypugh is that a gear head or belt driven lathe?
[19:32:00] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I believe so
[19:32:03] <malcom2073> I think linuxcnc has that capability
[19:32:04] <andypugh> Direct drive, which is one reason I got the new lathe, that has a gearbox
[19:32:17] <XXCoder> malcom2073: nice. I doubt will need it but nice
[19:32:24] <malcom2073> Don't know if it can auto-correct, but you certainly can have it throw and error if you skip
[19:32:30] <malcom2073> Nah, if you're careful you won't need it
[19:32:34] <PetefromTn_> what HP motor did you have on it and what was the ratio?
[19:32:38] <malcom2073> Find your machine limits, and stay below them :P
[19:32:40] <XXCoder> I do want to upgrade electrics and motors later as current ones are weak ass
[19:32:58] <XXCoder> max 50mm/s and 200 mm/s^2
[19:33:02] <andypugh> That’s a 1kW motor at about 3:1 ratio
[19:33:23] <PetefromTn_> WOW that looks pretty stout
[19:33:44] <andypugh> There are some very capable 1/2hp lathes out there
[19:34:07] <PetefromTn_> I was kinda worried about my direct drive unit with 7.5hp but I guess I will be OK LOL> What is your max RPM?
[19:34:20] <andypugh> I top out at 1500
[19:34:31] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[19:34:46] <PetefromTn_> man watching these cnc lathe videos is like PORN for me LOL
[19:35:08] <PetefromTn_> is that some sort of sprocket spacer for a wide rear wheel or something?
[19:36:00] <andypugh> It’s a replica sprocket for the 1921 to 1925 models of the Ner-a-Car. I sold them all and have outstanding orders.
[19:36:07] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: ever seen automated rook maker lathe?
[19:36:08] <XXCoder> amazing
[19:36:47] <PetefromTn_> sweetness
[19:37:09] <PetefromTn_> those macros you are using is that in linuxCNC now?
[19:38:29] <malcom2073> andypugh: That's awesome
[19:38:31] <andypugh> Not part of LinuxCNC , but easy to add
[19:38:34] <malcom2073> Really cool though using the precanned stuff
[19:38:54] <andypugh> It’s just a GladeVCP tab
[19:39:36] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: This is the drive to the lathe now, https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_hlZumHKbsbV7YoKPcEmOdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink let me find a picture of the original drive
[19:39:42] <PetefromTn_> Yeah man looks good. Kinda surprised that if you had to make several that you did not just make a program for it.
[19:40:22] <XXCoder> oops need more z before moving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZB8W81ae_g
[19:40:40] <PetefromTn_> that looks very clean man
[19:40:47] <PetefromTn_> I like your spindle encoder setup
[19:41:33] <malcom2073> haha snap
[19:41:36] <andypugh> It used to be the classic Emco smallest-V-belt-in-the-world drive http://s22.photobucket.com/user/pace1980/media/Emco%20%20Compact%2010%20lathe/Emcolathe.jpg.html
[19:42:10] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[19:42:18] <PetefromTn_> damn are those belts or Orings hehe
[19:42:45] <andypugh> This is the factory-fit drive on the new lathe: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JsV7Nr5e3hKpspS7eWj5R9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:43:16] <PetefromTn_> nice multirib
[19:43:31] <andypugh> The Chinese lathe is 9x20. The Holbrook is 10x20. But the difference in quality is surreal.
[19:43:41] <PetefromTn_> mine uses multi vee belt pullies
[19:43:50] <PetefromTn_> oh hell yeah
[19:43:51] <XXCoder> is there such thing as "side clamp"
[19:43:52] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it is
[19:44:00] <XXCoder> can mount on surface and push to side
[19:44:04] <XXCoder> low profile
[19:44:16] <andypugh> Funniest is Chinese tailstock on Holbrook bed: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/C8QoT1ukSXen-trEZFUs-NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:44:20] <PetefromTn_> that's like my Asian 12x36 was actually not bad and I quite enjoyed it
[19:44:31] <PetefromTn_> but compared to my new Standard Modern it is a toy
[19:45:01] <PetefromTn_> wow it does not even span the ways
[19:45:12] <PetefromTn_> but hey man it was making some decent parts for ya it looks like
[19:45:16] <XXCoder> whatever works it works
[19:45:17] <andypugh> No, it fits neatly in the middle
[19:45:39] <PetefromTn_> that's one thing I liked about the HAAS TL1 they have over there
[19:45:47] <PetefromTn_> it has MASSIVELY WIDE ways
[19:46:03] <XXCoder> waaaay wide ways
[19:46:05] <PetefromTn_> they must a foot and a half apart
[19:46:16] <andypugh> The Holbrook has massively deep ways, https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/imaBHuB3zsysMpG9-SYOGdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:46:47] <andypugh> It about 1.5x deeper than the centre height
[19:47:01] <PetefromTn_> nice
[19:47:06] <PetefromTn_> BEEF
[19:47:23] <Sync> I like the meter in there
[19:47:27] <andypugh> If it isn’t an upgrade on the Chinese machine I will be a bit upset :-)
[19:47:40] <PetefromTn_> Should smoke the chinese machine once you are finished
[19:47:56] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say that I was relatively pleased with my chinese 12x36 tho
[19:48:02] <PetefromTn_> it actually worked quite well
[19:48:15] <PetefromTn_> and I made a shit ton of parts on that machine over the decade I owned it
[19:48:30] <PetefromTn_> but I am really looking forward to seeing this machine in action
[19:48:35] <andypugh> A lot of features of the Holbrook are pointless and expensive
[19:48:41] <PetefromTn_> you putting servos on the holbrook
[19:48:46] <andypugh> Likke the dual-unit dials
[19:48:57] <Sync> my chinese machine got usable I scraped in the saddle :D
[19:49:13] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Yes, servos and resolvers.
[19:49:43] <XXCoder> malcom2073: jeez this video guy is an idiot. lousy clamping AND way too slow reponse to general fuckup
[19:49:52] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFq7lzG4Kdo
[19:50:45] <andypugh> The dual unit dials are, for example, 0.1” and 2.5mm. But as .1” is not _exactly_ 2.5mm, the mm scale is geared to the inch scale, and moves 0.04mm further every rev.
[19:50:48] <malcom2073> Haha, he deserved that break
[19:51:32] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:52:12] <andypugh> At lest the workpiece wasnt damaged
[19:52:36] <XXCoder> video I linked? I think it was still incomplete so scrap anyway
[19:53:57] <XXCoder> this guy is lathing a rebar
[19:54:03] <XXCoder> interesting
[19:54:03] <malcom2073> I saw the rebar one
[19:54:07] <malcom2073> that's halarious
[19:54:08] <XXCoder> theres plenty of rebar scrap
[19:54:25] <andypugh> “Can you cut rebar with a lathe?” Is that even a question>
[19:54:33] <Sync> oh, interesting andypugh
[19:54:43] <Sync> just read dan gelbarts comment on your g+
[19:54:51] <Sync> the precision granite guys are supercheap
[19:55:22] <malcom2073> andypugh: it's a very reprap sorta question
[19:55:59] <XXCoder> well answer seem to be "yes" so far. not surpising really.
[19:56:25] <malcom2073> Though I'm not sure rebar is actually cheaper than finding steel stock at scrap prices
[19:56:35] <XXCoder> it is if you go to demo
[19:56:37] <andypugh> Sync: Yes, I was surprised. If I needed to do that kind of work, that is probably the way I would go
[19:56:50] <XXCoder> and ask "hey can I grab random lengths of junk rebars"
[19:56:59] <XXCoder> bring a grinder or something
[19:57:06] <malcom2073> heh
[19:57:14] <andypugh> Rebar is cheap steel. Of course you can cut it on a lathe
[19:57:50] <Sync> well, I looked at a chinese importer of granite stuff here and they were a lot more expensive andypugh
[19:57:52] <andypugh> I have been using rebar for non-critical stuff for decades
[19:58:09] <XXCoder> in one old game (bength the steel sky) one guys using laser as tool for lathe
[19:58:23] <XXCoder> charactor you play comments it was such a high precision pipe
[19:59:29] <XXCoder> btw that game is free
[19:59:38] <XXCoder> if youre curious
[19:59:54] <XXCoder> and forward ported so you can play it on modern computer
[20:00:20] <Sync> I used rebar once
[20:00:31] <Sync> it is even worse than s235
[20:00:47] <XXCoder> what makes it worse?
[20:01:39] <Sync> being uncontrolled in its quality
[20:01:56] <andypugh> You can’t get any sort of surface finish at all.
[20:02:08] <XXCoder> ahh not too surpised really. it have to be cheao to use everywhere in rebar stuff
[20:03:27] <Sync> so I now only use premium construction steels or stuff like free machining steels for screw machines
[20:03:55] <XXCoder> I bet can use for some noncritical stuff
[20:04:03] <XXCoder> for example if youre designing a decoactive stuff
[20:04:14] <Sync> yeah, but you will hate yourself
[20:06:22] <XXCoder> I suppose lol
[20:07:28] <XXCoder> interesting!
[20:07:42] <XXCoder> drill bit gets twisted a little as its drilling
[20:07:51] <XXCoder> not visiable when its spinning
[20:07:57] <XXCoder> but can see in lath
[20:09:31] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0l9k5iunP8&feature=iv&src_vid=AQgNDF3BWRA&annotation_id=annotation_3381555717
[20:09:36] <XXCoder> rebar handle lol
[20:09:44] <XXCoder> pretty cool
[20:16:15] <Sync> that's one of the reasons why you hate yourself when machining rebar
[20:18:00] <XXCoder> lol
[20:19:21] <Sync> as you see it catches all the time when he is drilling
[20:20:31] <XXCoder> that drill twisting thing?
[20:21:20] <Sync> yeah
[20:21:26] <Sync> listen to the noise
[20:21:55] <XXCoder> yeah I'll turn on my ears
[20:21:56] <XXCoder> heh
[20:22:19] <malcom2073> heh
[20:22:25] <malcom2073> Wait... am I allowed to laugh at that?
[20:22:26] <malcom2073> :P
[20:22:31] <XXCoder> no
[20:22:32] <XXCoder> jk
[20:22:58] <malcom2073> Wait, so how do you know how happy a machine is cutting, by feel?
[20:23:17] <andypugh> Smoke is one sign
[20:23:21] <andypugh> Smell
[20:23:23] <malcom2073> Like, my mill I know by sound when I need to drip some more lube on it
[20:23:40] <andypugh> Sparks, normally bad
[20:23:44] <malcom2073> HEh
[20:23:51] <malcom2073> Especially sparks when cutting aluminum
[20:24:04] <XXCoder> andypugh: too bad I cant smell either LOL
[20:24:15] <XXCoder> but yeah can feel bad cut sometimes
[20:24:27] <XXCoder> sometimes bad cut feels smooth though so oh well
[20:25:53] <malcom2073> That'd be tricky
[20:26:30] <andypugh> XXCoder: I was going to mention that I have a job that you probably couldn’t do, as I am a vehicle NVH specialist. But, actually, as the data is captured then analysed graphically, you probably could do most of it. Though given all the more interesting jobs in the same field (driving dynamics, emissions, heaters) NVH would be an eccentric choice
[20:26:47] <malcom2073> NVH?
[20:26:56] <malcom2073> Nihilistic Vehicular Homicide?
[20:26:56] <XXCoder> I had friend working at oil fields that could offer me very good paying IT job
[20:27:01] <andypugh> Noise Vibration and Harshness.
[20:27:05] <XXCoder> but they REQUIRE smelling ability lol
[20:27:08] <malcom2073> Oh cool
[20:27:17] <XXCoder> interesting
[20:27:35] <andypugh> I drive around in cars and am paid to go “What the hell was that noise”
[20:27:56] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I work in the IT field for the oil industry for one of my jobs
[20:28:03] <Sync> that makes sense XXCoder
[20:28:04] <andypugh> (Though I am drifting out of that to other stuffs now)
[20:28:09] <Sync> otherwise you'd die
[20:28:10] <malcom2073> Don't need good smell as I'm never in the field, but the jobs are drying up pretty quick nowadays
[20:28:26] <malcom2073> Oil is not a good business to be in right now in the usa
[20:28:33] <malcom2073> Ask MacGalempsy :P
[20:28:38] <XXCoder> malcom2073: theres alarm and oxygen masks from what I understand
[20:28:51] <XXCoder> I wouldnt hear alarm and dont smell gas
[20:28:53] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Yeah I did volunteer to go out once, we had wearable gas alarms
[20:28:59] <malcom2073> but yeah they beep at you
[20:29:05] <andypugh> The “making cars” business is pretty good right now.
[20:29:12] <andypugh> It shouldn’t be.
[20:29:16] <XXCoder> andypugh: I'm still waiting for elio
[20:30:34] <Sync> why not andypugh?
[20:30:45] <_methods> hopefully the wendelstein fusion reactor test will go well
[20:30:53] <_methods> then we won't need oil so much
[20:31:04] <malcom2073> I need to get into a different field
[20:31:09] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_2HIUa3puk
[20:31:17] <XXCoder> was it running way too fast?
[20:31:44] <Sync> no
[20:31:48] <Sync> shitty workholding
[20:32:04] <XXCoder> it said it was programming error
[20:32:31] <Sync> it does, but it is a combination
[20:32:43] <andypugh> The last thing this planet needs is more cars.
[20:32:46] <XXCoder> ahh
[20:32:59] <malcom2073> He reacts pretty quick though
[20:33:01] <XXCoder> what world needs is MUCH higher mpg cars
[20:33:06] <XXCoder> thats what elio is for
[20:33:24] <malcom2073> andypugh: That's a very unrealistic view though
[20:33:34] <malcom2073> It's better to work towards better cars, than to try to reduce the number of cars
[20:33:45] <malcom2073> Only one of those options has a chance in hell of actually happening :P
[20:33:56] <andypugh> I don’t have a car. :-)
[20:34:07] <malcom2073> I live 45 minutes away from my one job, I have to have one
[20:34:21] <XXCoder> 12 min myself when not summer
[20:34:25] <XXCoder> summer 30 min
[20:34:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_B82IjClno Pretty cool boring bars
[20:35:07] <XXCoder> bet this sounds nasty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-weJqnCSOMc
[20:35:08] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: The music, combined with "Deep hole boring made easy" is amusing to me
[20:35:28] <PetefromTn_> aah I never listen to the music
[20:36:00] <Sync> andypugh: but cars are fun
[20:36:11] <andypugh> No they aren’t
[20:36:38] <PetefromTn_> SOME cars are fun
[20:36:59] <jesseg> they are more fun than walking
[20:37:02] <XXCoder> what! my nissan quest soccer mom van isn't fun? say it an't so!
[20:37:10] <XXCoder> I like walking
[20:37:40] <PetefromTn_> my Astro is SOOOO FUN
[20:37:49] <malcom2073> My cars are fun
[20:37:58] <jesseg> k walking is fun too but if it takes 4 hours to walk to work your in trouble
[20:38:15] <XXCoder> yeah
[20:38:30] <malcom2073> Though neither of my cars gets over 15mpg, so I'm doing the environment no favors
[20:38:40] <jesseg> I love walking, high in the mountains
[20:38:43] <andypugh> I like walking, and I cycle to work. Except when I take a test car home. I am being a bit disingenous, I have a collection of motorcycles and access to a fleet of test cars.
[20:39:24] <malcom2073> I only walk when I'm being chased
[20:39:32] <malcom2073> And only so they catch me quick and I don't have to walk anymore
[20:39:35] <XXCoder> more "mean" to tool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj6MtpW-C1Y
[20:41:01] <Sync> I do enjoy all of that andypugh, but I think cars are fun
[20:41:04] <malcom2073> and yes, XXCoder, it does sound nasty.
[20:41:19] <andypugh> I think bikes are more fun.
[20:41:32] <XXCoder> I need to fix my bicycle.
[20:41:36] <malcom2073> Bikes are more fun, but damn if other drives don't make riding not worth it
[20:41:44] <andypugh> I certainly can’t afford a car that has the performance of my bike.
[20:42:34] <malcom2073> I enjoy going slowly on a bike though, and fast in a car
[20:42:42] <malcom2073> I always owned cruisers (harley lookalikes)
[20:42:54] <malcom2073> Though I'm done with bikes now
[20:42:59] <malcom2073> sticking to 4 wheels, other people are too crazy
[20:44:03] <andypugh> I broke the bike a few weeks ago, and had to choose a single gear. I chose third. Which turns out to be OK for launching from rest, and then red-lines at 160mph.
[20:44:13] <malcom2073> hah
[20:44:19] <malcom2073> Man, my bike redlined 5th gear at 92mph
[20:44:41] <andypugh> My R1 redlines 1st at 105mph :-)
[20:44:46] <XXCoder> yeah not riding any bike anytime soon
[20:44:56] <malcom2073> Hah
[20:45:25] <malcom2073> Buddy of mine has an R1 engine in his sand rail
[20:45:36] <andypugh> And anyone can buy one for about $2k (an old one)
[20:46:01] <malcom2073> They're damn powerful engines, yours a turbo?
[20:46:08] <Sync> haha no
[20:46:13] <andypugh> No, only the normal 180hp
[20:46:17] <malcom2073> heh
[20:46:34] <Sync> there is no reason to turbo it for non drag racing applications
[20:47:21] <malcom2073> I need to get my car backon the road, non turbo v8, vroom
[20:47:41] <andypugh> It’s an old one, if you want to go super crazy there is the Kawasaki H2R. Out of the showroom supercharged 300hp
[20:47:49] <malcom2073> nuts
[20:48:18] <Sync> I had a hp4 last season
[20:48:20] <Sync> what a pos
[20:49:14] <andypugh> But, ’tis a long way past one’s bed-time
[20:49:34] <Sync> the engine breaks basically all the time if you run it hard
[20:52:08] <malcom2073> That's unfortunate
[20:54:19] <Sync> well they are extracting around 200hp/l stock
[20:55:12] <malcom2073> I don't know what that means
[20:55:53] <malcom2073> It's like rating a car's fuel economy by the miles per tank, I don't know what to do with the information.
[20:56:06] <Sync> the engine has 1l capacity, and produces 200hp
[20:56:45] <malcom2073> Yeah, I've never actually heard hp/liter used in any way other than to discredit big displacement motors
[20:58:52] <Sync> huh
[20:59:21] <Sync> it means that they are at the very limit of what is possible
[20:59:24] <ssi> hm so i bought a chair
[20:59:28] <ssi> but it's too tall :(
[20:59:33] <malcom2073> So... how much horsepower does it have?
[20:59:47] <Sync> I wrote that already
[21:00:04] <ssi> Sync: I've had cars that made more than 200hp/l, but they were forced induction
[21:00:09] <malcom2073> Oh it's 1 liter, I misunderstood that
[21:00:27] <malcom2073> I thought you were using 1 liter as an example heh, sorry
[21:00:31] <Sync> sure, with FI more is quite easy
[21:00:36] <ssi> quite
[21:00:42] <Sync> but NA, not so much
[21:03:53] <malcom2073> ssi: What kind of chair?
[21:04:10] <XXCoder> http://www.eliomotors.com/did-you-hear-2/
[21:04:10] <ssi> a cheap walmart barstool with a padded seat
[21:04:14] <ssi> I needed 24" but I bought 29"
[21:04:14] <malcom2073> heh
[21:04:24] <ssi> I've been sitting on a wooden stool for ten hours at a stretch for a week now
[21:04:26] <ssi> and it's killing me
[21:04:27] <malcom2073> chop off some of the legs
[21:04:34] <ssi> I'm probably gonna
[21:04:50] <XXCoder> put on lathe for smooth cut heh
[21:05:00] <Sync> aww ssi, I can probably make you a remote development setup
[21:05:41] <ssi> Sync: now that I'm up to motor tuning, I'm not sure that'd help
[21:06:00] <Sync> :D
[21:06:21] <Sync> although you could take your stuff inside
[21:06:39] <ssi> it'd be a lot to take inside
[21:07:09] <ssi> motor, power supply, scope, linuxcnc computer (which is jjust a jumble of parts and wires at the moment), mesa hardware, programmer, logic analyzer, a billion cables
[21:07:48] <malcom2073> + 10klb mill?
[21:08:50] <Sync> and if you make more than stock power the motor in the hp4 explodes around all 8000km
[21:10:26] <ssi> malcom2073: yea I dunno if that mill will ever move from where it is again :)
[21:10:30] <malcom2073> lol
[21:10:43] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I'd actually buy an ello I think, if I could walk into a dealership with cash and walk out
[21:10:46] <malcom2073> so maybe 5 year sfrom now?
[21:10:57] <XXCoder> later 2016 is my guess
[21:11:07] <malcom2073> It's like a spyder, but way cheaper, and with climate control
[21:11:09] <XXCoder> they do have 56,000 reservatuons
[21:11:24] <malcom2073> Yeah I'm willing to wait :)
[21:11:40] <malcom2073> They've got a good idea, targeting fleet vehicles
[21:11:51] <malcom2073> If they had a mini cargo trailer built specially for it, they'd be set
[21:12:09] <XXCoder> they dont but other companies have design and ready
[21:12:17] <XXCoder> I think they use same mount type as motorcycles
[21:12:26] <XXCoder> not too sure on that
[21:13:22] <malcom2073> Wonder what kind of mileage it would get with a trailer
[21:13:34] <XXCoder> probably not 84
[21:13:44] <malcom2073> at 1200lbs, figure 400lbs of cargo + 200lbs of trailer, that's gonna be a big hit on fuel economy heh
[21:14:18] <malcom2073> Exciting times none the less
[21:15:53] <XXCoder> indeed!
[21:15:55] <Sync> not entirely sure what I should think about that thing
[21:19:54] <XXCoder> its covered motorcycle
[21:20:00] <XXCoder> that drives like a car
[21:20:09] <malcom2073> Someone here owns a spyder
[21:20:17] <malcom2073> was it jthornton?
[21:20:18] <XXCoder> theres still few states you gonna wear helmet in elio lol
[21:20:29] <XXCoder> theyre been working on it
[21:20:38] <XXCoder> 'much fewer states than from start
[21:22:25] <Sync> it's just not fun, it is a fwd three wheeler
[21:22:38] <Sync> and with the small wheel base lateral dynamics will be limited
[21:22:38] <XXCoder> its not intended to be fun
[21:22:45] <XXCoder> its for daily commute to work
[21:23:24] <malcom2073> It's supposed to get 84mpg, not do the Nürburgring in under 10 minutes
[21:26:20] <Sync> which is about what a polo bluemotion will get if you drive really carefully
[21:26:54] <Sync> and even in my daily driver I want to have fun
[21:28:26] <malcom2073> It's a nickle and dime thing
[21:28:34] <malcom2073> If you have an exccess of income, you probably don't care
[21:28:39] <malcom2073> excess*
[21:28:48] <jesseg> Sync, seen the bumper sticker that says "Corners are meant to enjoy and I intend to do some real enjoying"
[21:29:06] <malcom2073> Nice
[21:36:18] <Sync> well malcom2073 if I can afford to buy such a thing new just for commuting, I can just buy something used that delivers more performance
[21:36:49] <XXCoder> Sync: actually you save MORE on gas when you use elio
[21:37:13] <XXCoder> I calculated that I would pay half as much gas, with TWICE gas price.
[21:37:33] <XXCoder> meaning switch to elio and you pay for it, and still save money
[21:41:42] <Sync> well, with lets say a 1.2l bluemotion polo, it is realisitc to average 3.5l/100km
[21:42:43] <Sync> which will about a real world figure of the elio as well
[21:45:16] <malcom2073> Yah but you can't get one of them in the USA
[21:45:29] <malcom2073> and certainly not for $7k
[21:46:03] <malcom2073> The kicker will be reliability. A commuter vehicle needs to last 50-100k miles
[21:46:09] <malcom2073> a bike drivetrain? Eh
[21:48:21] <XXCoder> malcom2073: basically theyre using mostly well tested and well known parts
[21:48:29] <XXCoder> part of how they get it so chea[
[21:48:35] <XXCoder> only untested is motor
[21:48:47] <Sync> good thing I'm not in the USDM malcom2073 ;)
[21:48:50] <malcom2073> But motorcycle drivetrains in general are not intended for the mileage of cars
[21:49:06] <Sync> also commuter cars are usually driven hard
[21:51:22] <XXCoder> that depends on driver
[21:51:43] <malcom2073> Typically, they are driven hard. I'm very easy on mine, but I'm not normal
[21:54:28] <Sync> I don't really care, so I drive it hard
[21:54:43] <Sync> if it breaks, I either repair it or get another one
[21:55:14] <malcom2073> I do care, repairs are expensive :/
[21:58:19] <Sync> dunno, the most expensive thing that could fail is the engine, but that is around 1.8k used
[21:58:22] <Sync> so eh
[21:59:24] <malcom2073> I don't have the time to do most repairs myself, so things get expensive fast
[22:03:39] <Sync> you have to take your time if you want to save on repairs
[22:03:44] <Sync> or just pay for someone to do it
[22:03:55] <XXCoder> hence the expense
[22:04:00] <Sync> the warranty engine swap was I think 6k or something
[22:04:02] <Sync> not too bad
[22:19:37] <Wolf_> malcom2073: I reject your around the ring in under 10 mins argument https://youtu.be/5KiC03_wVjc?t=3m25s
[22:20:35] <jesseg> In the line "N108 G43 H1 Z.1 M8", or in a G28, is the G43 and G28 required to be first in the line (or at least before any reference to X/Y/Z/etc ?
[22:36:39] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7FKKe-bYE&list=TLlpphr3bCjFQwODExMjAxNQ pretty cool
[22:38:57] <XXCoder> also interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Itw1iAbaoE&feature=em-subs_digest-g
[23:01:15] <anomynous> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de4xdOVVROQ
[23:01:18] <anomynous> very important machine
[23:01:45] <anomynous> so cool, though. Radio controlled car version of this?
[23:01:46] <anomynous> ;D
[23:01:51] <XXCoder> interesting variant.,
[23:01:54] <XXCoder> limited in stock
[23:02:01] <anomynous> you can add more easily
[23:02:09] <XXCoder> theres other that stacks upwards and flip em to stand em u[
[23:02:25] <XXCoder> wondering what others think we are talking about lol
[23:02:38] <anomynous> :D
[23:06:40] <XXCoder> did you look at my recent youtube video
[23:06:44] <XXCoder> darn nice
[23:11:08] <anomynous> url?
[23:11:18] <anomynous> the links you posted?
[23:11:26] <XXCoder> yeah youtube
[23:11:48] <anomynous> is the dominoe thing yours?
[23:11:53] <XXCoder> I wish
[23:12:06] <XXCoder> I do have router but I dont think I will cast anything.
[23:14:08] <anomynous> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djAvVViatog
[23:14:11] <anomynous> look at the parameters
[23:14:13] <anomynous> :D
[23:14:34] <XXCoder> your machine?
[23:15:00] <anomynous> no
[23:15:14] <anomynous> to be exact i dont have a machine
[23:15:17] <anomynous> i just use one ;)
[23:15:24] <XXCoder> lol ok
[23:15:27] <XXCoder> I own small one
[23:15:35] <XXCoder> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc%20router/20151108_154042.jpg
[23:16:12] <anomynous> doesnt look like its been used in a while
[23:16:31] <XXCoder> its stil being worked on
[23:16:48] <XXCoder> I removed the spindle to check sizes and so on but will reconnect it soon
[23:17:00] <XXCoder> but then I'm stuck with no place to put it to machine wood.
[23:17:23] <XXCoder> anomynous: been working on it on and off for months so yeah dusty lol
[23:18:23] <anomynous> what do you do for profession?
[23:18:29] <XXCoder> cnc machinist
[23:18:48] <XXCoder> I use "standard" size mills to make parts
[23:18:59] <anomynous> whats standard size?
[23:19:06] <XXCoder> "standard"
[23:19:12] <anomynous> normal size? ;D
[23:19:12] <XXCoder> its around car size machine
[23:19:16] <anomynous> ah
[23:19:23] <XXCoder> most machines like that
[23:19:39] <XXCoder> not anything huge lol
[23:20:02] <XXCoder> I did run machine at work big enough to lay bed on table lol
[23:20:23] <anomynous> i dont remember the envelope of the machine im on. about same size as yours, probably
[23:20:43] <anomynous> the biggest we have is a thing that can take 10 ton block on table
[23:21:03] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGzjVIo3pSs
[23:21:05] <anomynous> 3 mills and one lathe and two manual lathes
[23:21:13] <XXCoder> I use something like that pretty often
[23:21:34] <XXCoder> one I use isnt rebuilt though
[23:21:39] <anomynous> its bigger than that... somewhat
[23:21:45] <anomynous> not by a lot
[23:22:00] <XXCoder> 4020 is little more modern lol
[23:22:13] <anomynous> yeah
[23:22:14] <anomynous> ;D
[23:22:16] <anomynous> most likely
[23:22:16] <XXCoder> anomynous: yeah thats what I call "stanard" - around that size
[23:22:23] <XXCoder> biut larger bit smaller around that
[23:22:34] <XXCoder> I do run other machines like okuma
[23:22:51] <XXCoder> okuma well I do like machine and sometimes I dont. it has bit strange gcode implemention
[23:22:55] <XXCoder> like g15h1 for coord 1
[23:23:12] <anomynous> why do you like it?
[23:23:13] <XXCoder> if you dont do g15h0 before setting tool loength you will cause a crash.
[23:23:22] <anomynous> a ha
[23:23:29] <anomynous> why is that
[23:23:31] <XXCoder> better than fadal, and it moves spindle on y and z
[23:23:45] <XXCoder> because it is weird software-wise
[23:23:57] <XXCoder> anyway because of that design, parts is always easy to reach.
[23:24:19] <XXCoder> I had to climb in yhat big machine to do stuff each part and it was annoying lol
[23:24:26] <XXCoder> haas something
[23:24:35] <anomynous> small machines you can lift parts on and off table easily
[23:24:39] <anomynous> big machine you need a crane
[23:24:40] <anomynous> ;D
[23:24:51] <XXCoder> depends but yeah
[23:25:00] <XXCoder> that HAAS usually runs very large plate
[23:25:02] <XXCoder> too large for it
[23:25:07] <XXCoder> they use forklift
[23:25:20] <anomynous> how is your haas
[23:25:25] <XXCoder> haas well
[23:25:39] <anomynous> unrigid, cheap and works okay other than that?
[23:26:29] <XXCoder> dunno about rigidness
[23:26:36] <XXCoder> its tool change is insanely slow lol
[23:26:42] <anomynous> ;D
[23:26:44] <XXCoder> it has huge tool change that swings in
[23:26:57] <XXCoder> then it does similiar tool change, then swings back
[23:27:07] <XXCoder> tool change is around 40 seconds
[23:27:32] <XXCoder> it recently ran parts that I usually run on old fadal
[23:27:44] <XXCoder> parts took 2 minutes more because of toolchange