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[00:11:17] <zeeshan> man
[00:11:20] <zeeshan> im just so happy right now
[00:11:26] <zeeshan> im finally getting results that make sense!!!!!!!!!
[00:11:40] <XXCoder> that phd on materials test?
[00:11:45] <zeeshan> masters
[00:11:49] <zeeshan> feels like a phd :p
[00:11:54] <XXCoder> lol ok
[00:13:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/32ioVeP.png
[00:15:24] <zeeshan> can you tell whats going on
[00:15:24] <zeeshan> :D
[00:15:43] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:15:49] <XXCoder> you need to wipe dots off
[00:15:53] <zeeshan> lol
[00:15:54] <XXCoder> it left a mess :(
[00:15:55] <XXCoder> ;)
[00:16:10] <zeeshan> a stress-strain curve is like the #1 tool when designing stuff
[00:16:16] <zeeshan> tells you how a material behaves
[00:16:29] <zeeshan> usually, if a material is elastic
[00:17:20] <zeeshan> if you load it by 5lb, it'll displace 0.005" , and if you double the load to 10lb, itll displace say 0.010" (double the displacement)
[00:17:47] <zeeshan> if you unload it it to 5lb itll instantly go back to 0.005"
[00:18:02] <zeeshan> in my case, my material is taking time go go back to .005"
[00:18:19] <zeeshan> it's viscous and absorbing energy
[00:18:20] <zeeshan> :D
[00:18:45] <zeeshan> this is what was expected of the material, and an apparatus I BUILT!!! is giving the correct result!
[00:18:48] <zeeshan> yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[00:19:34] <XXCoder> way to go
[00:20:19] <zeeshan> ty :D
[00:20:27] <Erant> So, hysteresis?
[00:22:13] <zeeshan> yes
[00:32:50] <zeeshan> so tired!!!!!1
[00:44:52] <Jymmm> ha, not even close zeeshan, not even close
[00:45:58] <Jymmm> Mt shoulder hurts, my back hurts, my knees are screaming, and my ankle is wrapped in an ace bandage.
[00:46:52] <Jymmm> I move any part of my body, and it's like I'm a sound effects machine. lol
[00:47:12] <Jymmm> And on that note... g'night
[00:47:24] * XXCoder is glad he is deaf.
[00:59:33] <archivist> zeeshan, next you can consider suspension springs in pendulum clocks
[01:00:18] <archivist> which adds the problem of long term stability to that elasticity and viscosity
[01:01:48] <MrSunshine> anyone has any tips on what type of grease is recommended for ballscrews ?
[01:01:49] <archivist> you get small sudden changes in timing at random during the life of the spring, internal changes/cracking/crystal boundary changes
[01:02:09] <MrSunshine> i do not want it to drip as the ballscrew is above the table .. but the one i use is like super sticky and stringy
[01:48:14] <MrSunshine> hmm with gaskets one should be able to hold down quite small parts on a vacuum table right? =)
[01:48:35] <MrSunshine> have to try .. would be neat to be able to do a job with 90x700mm parts using the vacuum also =)
[01:48:38] <XXCoder> with my experence with vacuum so far, tape it down too
[01:50:39] <archivist> tape can be a real mess too
[01:51:58] <XXCoder> I used to run haas big router machine
[01:52:15] <XXCoder> used vacuum hold system, had to use wd40 and tapes
[01:52:16] <XXCoder> it sucked
[01:52:31] <MrSunshine> sheets i hold just fine
[01:52:41] <MrSunshine> even down to half a vacuum zone
[01:52:43] <MrSunshine> without gaskets
[01:52:56] <XXCoder> your vacuum system must be better
[01:53:11] <XXCoder> other thing I had to use is big rubber sheets
[01:53:25] <XXCoder> they probably ordered it from certain catalog or something :P
[01:53:28] <XXCoder> jk
[01:53:41] <MrSunshine> was hoping to be able to be able to cut out a small jig with stops for the parts and put in like 4 at a time without having to mess with alot of clamps =)
[01:55:41] <XXCoder> thats postive thing about vacuum system
[02:03:41] <MrSunshine> mm, then just mask of the unused area of the zones with plastic or something =)
[02:03:52] <MrSunshine> gonna have to try i guess =)
[02:04:05] <XXCoder> yeah easy enough
[02:04:31] <XXCoder> use tapes to seal in covers for unused areas
[02:11:13] <MrSunshine> some kind of friction surface to add would be nice ... like the trackpads or something =)
[02:11:24] <MrSunshine> but do not have a source of those around here =)
[02:12:13] <archivist> I found the double sided tape bent the sheet item on removal
[02:13:57] <MrSunshine> been using it some when engraving and it can be a pita to get lose
[02:14:55] <Deejay> moin
[02:18:07] <ssi> moan
[02:21:21] <XXCoder> moon
[02:21:29] <Deejay> moo ;)
[02:21:34] <XXCoder> mow
[02:28:45] <XXCoder> such a stupid joke but I keep laughing
[02:28:46] <XXCoder> http://lolnein.com/2015/06/30/howtosellacar/
[03:16:42] <anomynous> thats a good joke
[03:41:32] <Jymmm> Ya'll are WAY too easily amused
[03:42:12] <Jymmm> LOOK! There's a rock
[03:44:02] <Jymmm> ...and ANOTHER rock!
[03:45:09] <ssi> too many rocks
[03:47:43] <Jymmm> LICK EM
[03:48:14] <ssi> wat
[03:48:17] <ssi> don't wanna
[03:55:02] <XXCoder> Pee on it.
[03:55:20] <ssi> don't wanna
[03:55:40] <XXCoder> there is people who drink their urine daily for health
[03:55:40] <XXCoder> hah
[04:27:09] <chuckbob> Hey guys, question... Where do I find the mesa blacklist file in 2.7.2... I have a 4i65 card that seems to be blacklisted in pncconf
[04:30:39] <archivist> never heard of a blacklist, use a better word
[04:31:47] <chuckbob> well, from what i remember from years before, the pncconf.py file had a list of supported mesa boards, and a list of ignored boards
[04:32:11] <chuckbob> big problem is, I have been so far removed from linuxcnc for a couple of years, I can't even find the pncconf.py file
[04:32:35] <chuckbob> I just clean installed 2.7.0 and upgraded to 2.7.2
[04:35:25] <XXCoder> and your mesa board is still unsupported?
[04:35:35] <chuckbob> yes, I have a 4i65 and a 4i69
[04:35:39] <chuckbob> both unsupported
[04:35:55] <chuckbob> I have a 5i20 also, but this is a single board computer pci 104
[04:36:17] <chuckbob> But, I am pretty sure that in 2.6, the 4i65 was supported
[05:18:49] <chuckbob> guess I'll go back to 2.6 and see what's up
[05:20:41] <anomynous> Jymmm, your humor on the other hand didn't amuse me. Such vulgar jokes.
[05:21:00] <XXCoder> dont get your rocks off
[05:21:15] <anomynous> what rocks?
[05:21:32] <XXCoder> thought your comment was to Jymmm's recent comments
[05:21:40] <anomynous> it was
[05:29:20] <jthornton> morning
[05:29:30] <Tecan> tea time
[05:52:45] * jthornton just got ftp and cron to work to upload to my website at night when free :)
[05:53:36] <XXCoder> when bandwidth is free?
[05:53:51] <XXCoder> nice idea though, fastest time to upload too
[05:56:58] <jthornton> yea unmetered at night
[05:57:46] <jthornton> hmm my test cron didn't work
[05:58:04] <XXCoder> we need more isps
[05:58:11] <XXCoder> comeition
[05:58:19] <XXCoder> here we got comcast and...
[05:59:12] <jthornton> out in the woods I have to look up to the southern sky for internet
[06:00:03] <jthornton> another failed plan of the prez runs down the highway 1.6 miles from my house and is connected to nothing at each end
[06:02:53] <XXCoder> fun
[06:05:09] <jthornton> I wonder if you have to close the crontab before it works
[06:10:01] <XXCoder> maybe
[06:11:32] <jthornton> yep that worked
[06:14:01] <XXCoder> cool
[06:28:58] <jthornton> yea unmetered is 12am to 5am so I'll upload all my stuff then
[06:53:55] * jthornton wonders if a 5i25 works in a PCI Express X16 slot???
[06:54:31] <malcom2073> I thought 5i25 was pci, 6i25 was pcie?
[06:55:29] <jthornton> ah yes the 6i25 is pcie x1 it seems
[06:55:43] <malcom2073> Which will work in a x16 slot if I remember correctly
[06:56:57] <MarkusBec> it will work
[06:57:04] <jthornton> ok, the motherboard I got has pcie x16 and 2 x1 slots
[06:58:34] <jthornton> i just found a photo of the pci and pcie slots next to each other so it makes sense now
[07:34:24] <anomynous_> crispy waffle!
[07:34:41] <anomynous_> CRISPY WAFFLE!
[07:35:08] <Jymmm> hockey puck?
[07:35:12] <anomynous_> no
[07:35:14] <anomynous_> waffles
[07:35:34] <Jymmm> EXTRA crispy waffle (burnt) == Hockey puck =)
[07:36:20] <Jymmm> Bacon waffle?
[07:36:36] <anomynous_> you werent awake during classes that spoke about different materials. Crispy waffles are tasty, and plastic/gum is not. Also waffles are not machined prior to chewing.
[07:37:05] <Jymmm> bacon crumbled into the batter =)
[07:40:07] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, bacon and jalepenos in a corn meal waffle batter, topped with two fried eggs and salsa verde?
[07:40:48] <Jymmm> touch of sugar or honey in the batter
[08:17:43] <_methods> wow taht sounds good
[08:28:09] <Jymmm> _methods: Could use quality chorizo instead
[08:36:47] <_methods> mmmm
[09:19:40] <R2E4> Mornin, anyone around?
[09:20:08] <zeeshan> noper
[09:20:08] <duc> Somewhat
[09:20:09] <zeeshan> :]
[09:21:45] <PetefromTn_> mornin
[09:23:46] <zeeshan> Morning pete
[09:23:52] <zeeshan> ahh interviews get me nervous
[09:23:59] <zeeshan> cause of the unexpected q's :P
[09:24:40] <PetefromTn_> why would the smartest safest engineer in the world worry about a simple interview ;)
[09:25:05] <zeeshan> haha
[09:25:26] <zeeshan> no working lathe means no confidence
[09:25:32] <zeeshan> life is incomplete
[09:25:46] <PetefromTn_> tell me about it
[09:26:28] <PetefromTn_> I was bridgeporting some more Rx7 irons yesterday over at Addicted
[09:27:11] <PetefromTn_> and I somehow managed to blow a nice sharp tiny piece of cast iron swarf into my eye PAST my safety glasses with compressed air LOL Hurts like a BITCH!
[09:28:46] <_methods> ouch
[09:30:15] <PetefromTn_> ouch indeed
[09:31:23] <PetefromTn_> I especially like the part where you wake up the next day and your eye is stuck shut with crusties that part is lots of fun.
[09:32:34] <duc> Has the other eye closed also yet
[09:32:59] <PetefromTn_> hehe nope
[09:33:30] <_methods> you go to the dr?
[09:34:21] <_methods> eyes, face, hands, feet are nothing to mess with things can go bad quick
[09:34:24] <PetefromTn_> no honestly I think I got it out and just scratched my eye which usually heals in two days or so... if it does not get better I will go
[09:34:47] <PetefromTn_> ask me how I know this LOL
[09:35:14] <_methods> hehe well if you work in a machine shop and you've never had metal stuck in your eye.......you must be an engineer
[09:35:29] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[09:36:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have had to go to an eye dr. like three or four times over the years even tho I try to always wear safety glasses
[09:36:56] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say that the little US made pencil grinder I bought used with a BUNCH of carbide cutters makes short work of those cast iron bits
[09:37:03] <PetefromTn_> and it is very conrtrollable
[09:37:12] <PetefromTn_> tr
[09:46:39] <PetefromTn_> hmm gotta pick a Chrismas Ringtone ;)
[09:55:59] <Erant> I had metal stuck in my eye when I was young, had a nice little rust ring around it when they got it out.
[09:56:08] <Erant> Had to scoop out a bit of my eye to get all the rust.
[09:56:36] <Erant> Nothing recent though.
[09:56:42] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah I had the same thing
[09:56:52] <PetefromTn_> that was the worst one
[09:57:07] <PetefromTn_> had to wear a patch and put some ooze in it for several days
[09:57:16] <PetefromTn_> was not too fun
[09:58:55] <PetefromTn_> Hey guys got a PC question for you AGAIN. I decided I have a bunch to do on this build so waiting for the slow boat from china is okay for the picopsu power supply is gonna be okay
[09:59:20] <PetefromTn_> so I am getting this main board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157565&cm_re=Q1900M_pro3-_-13-157-565-_-Product
[09:59:44] <PetefromTn_> will this power supply fit it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200W-24pin-mini-ITX-DC-ATX-car-power-supply-w-16-24V-DC-wide-range-input-F-pc-/301047784739?hash=item4617d8a523:g:m1gAAOxycmBSsyLD
[10:00:52] <PetefromTn_> the newegg picture of the board shows just 24 pin ATX power connector
[10:02:07] <PetefromTn_> but I am no expert with PC stuff so I wanted to get some input before I order one.
[10:12:26] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: chinese stuff scares me :(
[10:12:34] <zeeshan> but that is so nice and compact
[10:13:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah I agree but will it fit?
[10:13:39] <zeeshan> why not
[10:13:41] <zeeshan> its 24 pin atx
[10:14:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah but the board says micro ATX and the pps says mini atx?
[10:16:05] <zeeshan> mini and micro just determine the board size
[10:16:09] <zeeshan> the connector is samew
[10:16:18] <zeeshan> "ATX" is related to the power supply requirements
[10:16:23] <PetefromTn_> ok thats what I kinda figured but I was not sue
[10:16:35] <PetefromTn_> sure
[10:16:35] <zeeshan> have you come across a 24vdc version
[10:16:37] <zeeshan> that is proper?
[10:16:43] <zeeshan> or do they not exist
[10:16:46] <PetefromTn_> proper?
[10:16:48] <zeeshan> cause ive been hunting for parts
[10:16:52] <zeeshan> yea like "meanwell"
[10:16:55] <zeeshan> or something like that type of brand
[10:19:26] <zeeshan> i think im just going to mount a regular power supply
[10:19:52] <zeeshan> it shouldnt be a lot of work to put it in a pendant box
[10:20:01] <zeeshan> annoying part is machining the cutout..
[10:20:12] * zeeshan did it with a dremel cutting disc tool
[10:20:12] <zeeshan> :D
[10:20:27] <PetefromTn_> I don't mind all of that I just thought this would be easier and kinda neet.
[10:20:50] <zeeshan> lemme tell you my thoughts about it
[10:20:54] <zeeshan> and they might be overthinking it
[10:21:05] <zeeshan> but im thinking like this, if you have a 24vdc supply, and for some reason it seeks a voltage spike
[10:21:12] <zeeshan> whether its cause of a switching inductive load or whatever
[10:21:24] <zeeshan> and somehow that managed to get through to the 24vdc to atx buck converter thing
[10:21:32] <zeeshan> and it didnt have proper protection built in, then you fry your motherboard
[10:21:44] <zeeshan> frying your motherboard isn't a big deal cause you could replace it
[10:21:53] <zeeshan> but frying the job you were working on would annoy
[10:22:14] <zeeshan> back whjen i was doing the lathe stepper swap
[10:22:26] <zeeshan> i never used to give importance to scrapping a work piece because of missed step etc
[10:22:39] <zeeshan> but man, some of the stuff ive worked on the lathe, ive put hours into
[10:22:48] <zeeshan> would suck ass if you'd scrap it over a $50 electrical component
[10:23:05] <zeeshan> i remember i was doing some wheel boring work on the mill
[10:23:22] <zeeshan> and th inking "man if this machine screwed up now, i'd scrap the wheel and i'd have to somehow replace this guys wheels"
[10:23:22] <zeeshan> lol
[10:24:08] <PetefromTn_> that's a bit extreme I think
[10:24:22] <zeeshan> :P
[10:25:59] <zeeshan> did i tell you i accidently typed g0 x...
[10:26:15] <zeeshan> and my .75" cutter went through a piece of aluminum at 200 ipm
[10:26:17] <zeeshan> around .3 doc?
[10:26:35] <zeeshan> around .375 woc
[10:26:39] <PetefromTn_> heh shit happens
[10:26:42] <zeeshan> IT CUT IT!!
[10:26:42] <zeeshan> lol
[10:26:57] <PetefromTn_> aluminum is butter soft generally I am not surprised
[10:27:01] <zeeshan> buut it got me thinking
[10:27:09] <PetefromTn_> I have done things like that accidentally
[10:27:10] <zeeshan> gotta be super careful when running bigger indexable cutters
[10:27:18] <zeeshan> cause if you have a super hard crash
[10:27:23] <zeeshan> you'll break stuff
[10:27:43] <zeeshan> like at the old job, someone went into the spindle with the jaws of a vise
[10:27:47] <zeeshan> had to replace the spindle
[10:28:15] <zeeshan> is that motherboard the best one youve found?
[10:28:16] <zeeshan> for the buck
[10:28:26] <PetefromTn_> I once ran my 1/2 inch finisher thru 7/8 deep full width 6061 when I forgot to cutoff my stock to length and it was running 5000RPM.... It bogged down for a second but before I could stop it it had run all the way thru
[10:28:46] <zeeshan> haha
[10:29:05] <zeeshan> now i limit my g0
[10:29:07] <zeeshan> to stop these things
[10:29:10] <zeeshan> when using mdi..
[10:29:14] <PetefromTn_> the motherboard is one Tom is using and seemed to get good results from
[10:29:55] <PetefromTn_> he is also using the picopsu setup type so I was thinking I might try it as well.
[10:29:59] <PetefromTn_> still not sure
[10:32:06] <zeeshan> im looking to order 2 of these things
[10:32:13] <zeeshan> cause i need to upgrade my mill comp -- tooslow
[10:32:24] <zeeshan> cpu mark says the j1900 gets a score of 1885
[10:32:42] <zeeshan> my other computer that i think is fast gets a score of 6462
[10:32:50] <zeeshan> and the cade computer has a score of 10500
[10:32:53] <zeeshan> *cad
[10:33:10] <zeeshan> im wondering if theres something for say $150
[10:33:16] <zeeshan> and is at least 5000 on the score board
[10:36:07] <zeeshan> wait now that i think about it
[10:36:14] <zeeshan> my dad's work computers that i helped setup for him
[10:36:16] <zeeshan> are pretty quick!
[10:36:21] <zeeshan> and they are j1900
[10:48:05] <PetefromTn_> I am more concerned with suitability to running linuxCNC than outright performance but I honeslty don't know much about PC stuff overall.
[11:02:19] <bobo_> Pete stuck in Tn can I muddy up the Pc board quest some more ?
[11:03:47] <PetefromTn_> shoot
[11:03:52] <bobo_> noticed on Tuesday that PCW linked a 12volt Bd.
[11:04:13] <bobo_> back in m
[11:06:12] <bobo_> Pete the 12volt Bd
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157495&cm_re=j1900-_-13-157-495-_-Product
[11:07:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah I saw it
[11:08:11] <bobo_> my looking at
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjADahUKEwiMy7eL3f7IAhVIw2MKHWUaBEI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.com%2Fnews%2Fembedded-mobile%2Fmobile-linux%2F795919-is-the-asrock-q1900dc-itx-motherboard-a-good-arm-sbc-alternative%2F&usg=AFQjCNH754nemJ-B1sN2x-S7LKPnVlLHdg
[11:08:38] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkeDBwsIaZw I like how this girl sings
[11:11:19] <bobo_> reading that ,it noted that the Bd uses a 12volt DC input and also has termals with wire connectors for haard drive etc
[11:13:44] <bobo_> if that is correct than to power the board all that would be needed is a single 12volt DC source
[11:17:36] <anomynous_> you have 10 options. Either you get a 12v dc source or you don't.
[11:18:00] <PetefromTn_> heh
[11:18:13] <PetefromTn_> it would be nice to not have to
[11:18:36] <bobo_> a 12 volt DC source could be a laptop Pwr "brick" which use 120V AC and output a DC voltage
[11:18:44] <Guest11382> i am unfamiliar with blender...is it possible to use it as a modeling program for machining on a mill?
[11:19:49] <PetefromTn_> Guest11382 I have played with blender and it is a very powerful graphical program but less than Ideal for solid modeling for machining IMHO. But yeah it could be done
[11:20:21] <anomynous_> i guess... you want to be artistic
[11:20:37] <brandon222> ok, thanks
[11:21:05] <brandon222> suggestion on any good open source cam software?
[11:21:08] <anomynous_> iirc there was a cad package thing. i tried it shortly, but i cant use it
[11:21:12] <bobo_> laptop Pwr "brick" should be cheap ,and are pretty good as far as regulation
[11:21:13] <anomynous_> open source? No.
[11:21:21] <anomynous_> Fusion 360 seems nice
[11:21:29] <anomynous_> and its free for enhusiasts
[11:22:42] <zeeshan> hi bobo
[11:22:42] <anomynous_> and if you have excess cash and you want a deluxe solution, you can buy solidworks.
[11:23:12] <anomynous_> or... what was it. alibre with its new name
[11:23:13] <PetefromTn_> LOL LOTS OF excess cash
[11:23:14] <bobo_> Hi Mr zeeshan sir
[11:23:17] <zeeshan> you dont need excessive cash
[11:23:18] <anomynous_> PetefromTn_, 4k
[11:23:18] <anomynous_> ;D
[11:23:21] <zeeshan> just get a student license
[11:23:24] <anomynous_> alibre is cheaper i think
[11:23:24] <brandon222> is it typically available in package/software managers? or does it need to be compiled or repo added?
[11:23:41] <anomynous_> zeeshan, is it available for hobbyists
[11:23:47] <zeeshan> no
[11:23:54] <zeeshan> but it's not hard to get a student version
[11:23:58] <zeeshan> its like $90
[11:24:02] <zeeshan> full loaded
[11:24:03] <brandon222> my question was regarding fusion360
[11:24:12] <zeeshan> your dwg will have a "student version" on it though
[11:24:20] <anomynous_> brandon222, fusion isnt for linux
[11:24:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: that sound is nice
[11:24:25] <anomynous_> for windows and mac only, i think
[11:24:28] <zeeshan> never heard of london grammar before
[11:24:44] <anomynous_> theres a thread for linux support but im not holding my breath
[11:24:53] <zeeshan> when i look at cad and cam, i think of it as an investment in your future
[11:25:00] <PetefromTn_> me neither but she sure can sing
[11:25:05] <brandon222> ahh, well, i was hoping to find a linux compatible setup for modeling and then also CAM software. just getting info
[11:25:10] <zeeshan> if you're going through the painstaking process of learning cad/cam software to an advanced level
[11:25:24] <zeeshan> you might as well learn something that is being used in industry because you become more valuable
[11:25:38] <zeeshan> like i came across a couple jobs that require catia
[11:25:45] <zeeshan> and i have like 2 months exp w/ catia
[11:25:50] <zeeshan> i can't apply to those jobs =/
[11:26:00] <brandon222> well, im looking at free/opensource options for hobby at the moment. we use solidworks and mastercam at work right now. just looking at other options for myself at home
[11:26:07] <zeeshan> then that's a no brainerr
[11:26:10] <zeeshan> you want to use fusion 360
[11:26:46] <brandon222> not into anything in particular yet, but researching to possibly kick off some sort of garage hobby. just wanna get ideas of what works for now and then start looking at either a laser and or small mill of some sort
[11:26:58] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8GDZaQ34o
[11:27:12] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: we're noobs
[11:27:19] <zeeshan> that last vid got 25 million hits
[11:27:27] <zeeshan> living under a cnc machine. :(
[11:27:38] <PetefromTn_> probably
[11:27:51] <anomynous_> zeeshan, sure buy gibbscam for 20k as an investment to your future ;D just kiddying
[11:27:54] <PetefromTn_> she kinda reminds me of annie lennox in her voice range
[11:28:40] <zeeshan> learn cad properly
[11:28:46] <zeeshan> otherwise you'll turn into a john nycnc
[11:28:48] <zeeshan> :{
[11:28:50] * zeeshan hides
[11:28:53] <bobo_> Also, zeeshan's friend John S is featuring youtube stuff on learning fusion 360
[11:28:57] <brandon222> properly how do you mean?
[11:28:58] <zeeshan> hahahaha
[11:29:20] <zeeshan> brandon222: constraints, how to sketch
[11:29:36] <zeeshan> like rarely do you ever need to start your sketch at the bottom left corner
[11:29:39] <zeeshan> that's old autocad techniques
[11:29:49] <zeeshan> make your model completely parametric
[11:29:53] <zeeshan> so design changes are easy to do
[11:30:05] <brandon222> ok, ill keep that in mind.
[11:30:10] <zeeshan> easy way to check if a model is proper is go back 4 steps
[11:30:19] <zeeshan> and change a generic od dimension or hole placement
[11:30:26] <zeeshan> if it breaks everything, its not proper
[11:31:26] <zeeshan> i think i need to learn fusion 360
[11:31:32] <zeeshan> i can see it being used by many in the future
[11:31:46] <PetefromTn_> I sort of agree with that sentiment
[11:32:00] <anomynous_> theres no shortcut keys! EEP
[11:32:03] <zeeshan> it might not make it to the big eng companies
[11:32:04] <anomynous_> i just hate it
[11:32:06] <anomynous_> ;D
[11:32:08] <brandon222> fusion360 run ok on windoze10?
[11:32:13] <anomynous_> try it
[11:32:17] <zeeshan> but small customers might be using it
[11:32:18] <R2E4> hi all
[11:33:23] <R2E4> I am using inventor 2015
[11:33:32] <R2E4> Whats the diff with fusion 360?
[11:34:09] <zeeshan> bunch of things
[11:34:15] <zeeshan> fusion360 is clooud, based
[11:34:31] <zeeshan> i dont have seen positional reps in fusion360
[11:34:37] <zeeshan> (i cant live without em!)
[11:34:38] <zeeshan> or ilogic
[11:35:16] <zeeshan> last time i checked fusion360 wasn't parametric
[11:35:24] <R2E4> akkkkkk
[11:35:29] <zeeshan> but one cool thing about it that i havent seen in other modelling software is
[11:35:34] <zeeshan> time dependant constraints
[11:35:46] <R2E4> how does that work?
[11:36:02] <zeeshan> so like if you mate 3 surfaces to fully constrain a part
[11:36:24] <R2E4> yeah....
[11:36:25] <zeeshan> it remembers the time you did it
[11:36:31] <R2E4> oh
[11:36:42] <zeeshan> usually in software there is no time dependence
[11:36:47] <zeeshan> it doesnt know the order in time!
[11:36:56] <R2E4> why wuld you care other than to be able to back up to that time
[11:36:58] <zeeshan> so if you break one, its very hard to figure out which one caused it
[11:37:17] <zeeshan> the time dependence you could figure it out quicker
[11:37:41] <R2E4> its just a matter of time......pun intended
[11:38:10] <zeeshan> some other major changes you might notice
[11:38:12] <zeeshan> right away......
[11:38:17] <R2E4> no parametric modeling is a show stopper
[11:38:18] <zeeshan> no design accelerator, no bolted connections
[11:38:31] <zeeshan> can't handle more than 5000 parts
[11:38:38] <zeeshan> no fea
[11:38:54] <zeeshan> i would check the latest rev if it has parametric, cause i know it was on their road map
[11:38:59] <zeeshan> it might be parametric
[11:39:17] <zeeshan> there's no gd&t in the dwg
[11:39:21] <R2E4> the questions is can it handle tow motors on one axis......
[11:39:23] <zeeshan> i haven't seen auxilary views or breakout views
[11:39:32] <zeeshan> havent seen sheet metal either
[11:39:40] <zeeshan> or piping and routing
[11:39:58] <zeeshan> you know what the problem is?
[11:40:03] <zeeshan> you try this new bad ass software
[11:40:08] <R2E4> TBK, same story from 5 years ago, when i built my first cnc router gantry style, I had to go to Mach3 cause gantrykins wasnt working
[11:40:15] <zeeshan> you invest time learning it, and you find out its missing a shit load of features
[11:40:24] <zeeshan> it was like me learning nx cam, boy that shit is hard to use
[11:40:28] <R2E4> yeah, thats a bitch
[11:40:37] <zeeshan> nx cam is super customizable
[11:40:40] <zeeshan> making it super hard to use
[11:40:44] <R2E4> inventor HSM is not all that either
[11:40:44] <zeeshan> mastercam so easy to use
[11:41:08] <zeeshan> i honestly haven't tried to learn inventor hsm -- i see awesome videos of it making parts
[11:41:11] <zeeshan> but i dont wanna get in the same hole
[11:41:16] <zeeshan> make a new post processor
[11:41:20] <R2E4> its ok, but I demo'd a cam for inventor and it blew HSM away...
[11:41:22] <zeeshan> and bam it doesnt have basic things
[11:41:31] <zeeshan> which one?
[11:42:02] <R2E4> It was 9 grand, so I didnt pursue it but WOW, it was amazing..... I'm trying think which one
[11:42:11] <zeeshan> one thing i think you'll never see fusion360 in an eng place
[11:42:19] <zeeshan> is beause there's no vault!!
[11:42:21] <zeeshan> or pdm works
[11:42:31] <zeeshan> (rev tracking systems)
[11:42:41] <zeeshan> solidcam?
[11:43:29] <zeeshan> im stuck on inventor 2013 at work and one thing that royally annoys me every single day i work
[11:43:43] <zeeshan> is the fact that assembly mode has no "mid plane" method of generating a reference plane
[11:43:47] <zeeshan> it exists in the part modelling
[11:43:49] <R2E4> Maybe it was solidCam, I'd have to check
[11:43:50] <zeeshan> but not in assembly
[11:43:57] <zeeshan> so frustrating. solidworks had it since 2006!!!
[11:44:25] <zeeshan> R2E4: you have routers
[11:44:28] <zeeshan> have you heard of axyz?
[11:44:44] <R2E4> whats axyz?
[11:44:48] <zeeshan> i had a phone interview with them today and got called in for an interview in person
[11:44:52] <zeeshan> they make some high end routers
[11:44:57] <zeeshan> i was googling about them
[11:45:05] <zeeshan> seem famous in sign making industry
[11:45:07] <zeeshan> and panel building
[11:45:11] <zeeshan> *seen
[11:45:55] <zeeshan> i noticed er32 spindles :D
[11:46:32] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: you there?
[11:46:35] <R2E4> yeah, they have nice stuff
[11:46:36] <zeeshan> have you heard of lana del rey?
[11:47:17] <R2E4> the music band?
[11:47:25] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRWox-i6aAk video is a bit explicit :P
[11:47:55] <R2E4> shes hot
[11:47:59] <zeeshan> haha
[11:48:10] <zeeshan> for some reason i rarely hear her on the radio
[11:49:09] <R2E4> I dont know what I am going to do with this router.....
[11:49:26] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan yeah sorta why?
[11:49:49] <R2E4> I have to try and get joint_axes implemented and try that
[11:49:59] <R2E4> Gantrykins not working right
[11:50:06] <zeeshan> what are you doing with it
[11:50:09] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: just wondering
[11:50:19] <R2E4> The same old story that has been around for 5 years, two motors on one axis
[11:50:35] <R2E4> hiya Pete
[11:51:09] <zeeshan> haha
[11:51:13] <zeeshan> cant you just put them on the same driver
[11:51:16] <zeeshan> so they do the exact same th ing
[11:51:22] <R2E4> servos
[11:52:05] <R2E4> I hardwired my steppers so what ever goes out to one it gets sent to the opther
[11:52:43] <R2E4> HEy Zeehan: you know how to use git to get a branch?
[11:53:42] <zeeshan> so you can compile it?
[11:54:04] <R2E4> yeah
[11:54:27] <zeeshan> use git clone
[11:54:34] <R2E4> I have to find it, its not documented, and blablabla
[11:54:42] <zeeshan> git clone url
[11:54:52] <R2E4> I can clone the linuxCNC
[11:55:02] <R2E4> but that doesnt have the branches I dont think
[11:55:29] <zeeshan> whats the link
[11:56:06] <zeeshan> like if its a linxucnc branch
[11:56:15] <zeeshan> git branch -a to list the branchs
[11:56:40] <PetefromTn_> thats nice too zeeshan
[11:56:58] <R2E4> https://github.com/curtdutt/linuxcnc
[11:57:27] <R2E4> thats the guy, dont know if it is an official branch
[11:57:42] <Jymmm> for remote in `git branch -r`; do git branch --track $remote; done
[11:57:43] <Jymmm> git fetch --all
[11:57:43] <Jymmm> git pull --all
[11:59:43] <zeeshan> R2E4: your problem is basically this
[11:59:53] <zeeshan> that you need to send the same commands to both servos
[12:00:03] <zeeshan> and independantly evaluate their feedback?
[12:00:12] <R2E4> that can be done in trivkins no problem
[12:00:20] <R2E4> the feedback is the issue
[12:00:53] <zeeshan> so Trivkins doesnt have a provision for feedback for close the position loop?
[12:01:28] <R2E4> yes, trivkins is the normal everyday keneitics for XYZ whatever.
[12:01:54] <R2E4> when you have 4 joints and three axis
[12:02:04] <zeeshan> oh like for a robot
[12:02:06] <zeeshan> joint mode
[12:02:11] <zeeshan> or wcs mode
[12:02:51] <R2E4> sending to two servos on same axis is no problem, but getting the feedback from two different servos on same axis 2 joints
[12:03:56] <R2E4> gantrykins and gentrivkins has issues,
[12:04:52] <zeeshan> my issue with 2 servos per axis is
[12:04:58] <zeeshan> how do you check for binding
[12:05:09] <zeeshan> so one servo is 0.5 rev ahead of the other
[12:05:22] <zeeshan> because one screw has more friction or something
[12:06:04] <pcw_home> You can use the near component and fault if out of sync
[12:06:06] <R2E4> my router with steppers dont have a problem
[12:06:14] <zeeshan> PCW: ah
[12:06:43] <zeeshan> so then really you only need to be sending one command to both servos
[12:06:45] <R2E4> sum the two and take the diff?
[12:06:51] <zeeshan> and calculating the error between the feedbacks
[12:06:56] <zeeshan> and only using one feedback
[12:07:07] <R2E4> you cant do that,
[12:07:23] <zeeshan> why
[12:07:50] <R2E4> because you slaved the two servos, so what your sending to one goes to the other
[12:08:28] <R2E4> hi Pete
[12:08:39] <awallin> anyonw know if there are tormach webcasts going on now or later today?
[12:09:31] <PetefromTn_> hey R2
[12:09:48] <R2E4> I am going to try getting the joint_axes branch but I heard it doesnt fix everything
[12:10:58] <awallin> ah here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3FVtrJ8U91iODq5motHMow
[12:11:13] <Deejay> re
[12:11:23] <awallin> python machinetalk bindings, HAL-multicore
[12:12:52] <pcw_home> I think the current issue with dual motor gantries is that homing doesn't work well
[12:13:09] <zeeshan> why
[12:14:04] <R2E4> Yeah, I am ok with it not working well, I wont use it. THe problem is you can inadvertantly jog in joint mode or free mode and it will jog only one joint of the Y axis
[12:14:04] <zeeshan> i got questioned "how would your friends describe you in one word"
[12:14:08] <zeeshan> my reply
[12:14:16] <zeeshan> "more than one word: always in the garage"
[12:14:19] <zeeshan> lol
[12:14:24] <zeeshan> i made the interviewer laugh :D
[12:14:35] <zeeshan> hopefully that was an appropriate answer, cause its true!
[12:15:35] <R2E4> Isnt the machinekit bindings using encoder raw data to home?
[12:24:02] <PetefromTn_> Ok here's the deal.... I am gonna get a larger din rail mounted 24v power supply and that adapter and if it suXX I will just get a typical PC power supply ;)
[12:24:46] <zeeshan> which din 24v supply
[12:25:36] <R2E4> Did you check out the automation direct din power supplies?
[12:28:15] <anomynous_> you have 10 options. You either get one or the other or then you just get both.
[12:29:16] <anomynous_> get it? Haha.
[12:30:09] <pcw_home> If you dont need special dual joint homing not sure tha gantrykins is needed
[12:31:27] <bobo_> PetefromTn: try for Siemans 6ep1334-3ba00
[12:32:17] <anomynous_> it was funny in binary. It's not funny in ternary.
[12:32:36] <anomynous_> hey is thats correct term
[12:32:38] <anomynous_> for base 3
[12:32:44] <anomynous_> idk
[12:32:49] <anomynous_> good night :)
[12:33:07] <renesis> wtf base 3 noooo
[12:33:12] <anomynous_> gotcha
[12:33:13] <anomynous_> ;D
[12:33:19] <renesis> trinary i think?
[12:33:32] <renesis> ive actually seen that before but i dunno if its right
[12:34:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have looked at the rhino's and the puls and others
[12:34:34] <renesis> charlieplexing is kind of like trinary
[12:35:33] <Erant> PetefromTn_: How much current do you need?
[12:35:54] <PetefromTn_> sitting here eating chips and dip enjoying some Nora Jones while I search the net for power supplies. All is right with the world!!
[12:35:57] <PetefromTn_> :D
[12:36:11] <Erant> I bought some DIRT cheap PSUs a while back from a sale (36VDC @ 13A, ~$20 each)
[12:36:39] <R2E4> pcw_home: I think I am ok with the servo cmd's but what to do with the encoders?
[12:36:45] <Erant> Each of my servos got their own. "You get a PSU, and you get a PSU, and you get a PSU!"
[12:36:57] <PetefromTn_> I need a 24v and would like something like 240watt I think
[12:37:07] <Erant> Lemme see if they're still selling
[12:38:33] <R2E4> thats 10 amps
[12:38:39] <Erant> Oh, yeah, looks like it.
http://www.galco.com/shop/Acme-Electric-Switching-Power-Supplies
[12:38:48] <awallin> those din-mounted SMPS's are quite problematic in sensitive instrumentation setups... lots and lots of common-mode noise..
[12:39:05] <Erant> My mistake, I didn't pay $20.
[12:39:09] <Erant> I paid $14.40
[12:40:21] <Erant> Though for some reason it looks like the one you'd want is like $70 :/
[12:41:17] <Erant> They're all still dirt cheap, and DIN rail mountable.
[12:42:01] <Erant> And I can't really complain, paying $14 for a giant honking PSU
[12:42:27] <PetefromTn_> I like glaco
[12:42:32] <PetefromTn_> galco
[12:43:46] <Erant> I like them too, they sold me 15lbs of power supply for $50 shipped ;)
[12:44:01] <Erant> Sorry, I was unreasonably excited when I found them.
[12:44:33] <ReadError> general question
[12:44:39] <Erant> general answer
[12:44:41] <ReadError> got some steppers (nema8 hollow shafts)
[12:44:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah and you get a chocolate bar with em LOL
[12:44:51] <ReadError> voltage rating....
[12:44:57] <ReadError> I figured it would be by current or watts?
[12:45:16] <Erant> Oh, ignore the voltage rating.
[12:45:33] <ReadError> yea never seen a voltage rating on a stepper
[12:45:38] <Erant> Because it's usually something like 3-4VDC
[12:45:43] <ReadError> except these
[12:45:54] <ReadError> theres no encoder etc, its just a normal ole stepper
[12:47:03] <Erant> I have more than a few with a voltage rating on 'm. It's just what you end up sending through the coils at like a hold current.
[12:47:12] <zeeshan> find me a nice 24vdc din rail supply!!!
[12:47:18] <zeeshan> 10A!!
[12:47:18] <zeeshan> :P
[12:47:52] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Power-Supplies-240W-24V-10A-W-PFC-function-/181914430802?hash=item2a5af1ed52:g:o4gAAOSwAYtWLvgQ
[12:48:22] <bobo_> Siemans 6ep1334-3ba00
[12:48:54] <PetefromTn_> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Power_Products_(Electrical)/DC_Power_Supplies/24VDC,_DIN_Rail_Mount/PSB24-240
[12:49:51] <zeeshan> YEA BABY MEANWELL
[12:50:05] <zeeshan> ive heard of rhino..
[12:50:05] <zeeshan> hmm
[12:50:28] <zeeshan> im liking the rhino design better
[12:50:37] <pcw_home> R2E4: position command goes to 2 PID comps, one per motor
[12:50:42] <PetefromTn_> seems R2 is using the RHino models I was thinking of getting that one
[12:50:47] <zeeshan> bookmarked
[13:02:35] <zeeshan> pcw_home: hi
[13:04:03] <zeeshan> i want your take on this.. was discussing that torque control could be thought of as "varying current" for a given voltage level, while speed control could be thought of varying voltage for a current level -- do you agree or disagree?
[13:07:13] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: does your warm up program
[13:07:15] <zeeshan> dance the axis?
[13:07:18] <zeeshan> (i forgot if you answered this)
[13:07:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah it runs across the entire travel but not the Z
[13:07:56] <zeeshan> any reason for that?
[13:07:58] <zeeshan> (the z)
[13:08:30] <PetefromTn_> well honestly I did not want to worry about having things fixtured up on the table and having to remove it so the head does not hit it for the most part
[13:09:02] <PetefromTn_> I thought about only making it run down like halfway or so but ultimately just removed the Z movements
[13:10:03] <pcw_home> Not exactly
[13:10:05] <pcw_home> in a motor, torque is directly proportional to current so current mode = torque mode
[13:10:06] <pcw_home> ( and the voltage is controlled to maintain a set current )
[13:10:08] <pcw_home> motor speed is roughly proportional to voltage
[13:10:09] <pcw_home> (and would be proportional if the motor had 0 resistance,)
[13:11:50] <pcw_home> typically motor controllers have 3 nested control loops
[13:11:50] <pcw_home> current
[13:11:51] <pcw_home> velocity
[13:11:52] <pcw_home> position
[13:14:45] <PetefromTn_> okay done deal ordered the Rhino 240 watt 24v dc supply and that picopsu 24pin 24v power supply. Hopefully it was the right decision ;)
[13:15:07] <zeeshan> pcw_home: that clears it up pretty good
[13:15:53] <zeeshan> "Voltage mode " = speed mode? :)
[13:16:35] <zeeshan> cause now you care about keeping voltage a certain value to maintain a certain speed , but current will vary because
[13:16:50] <zeeshan> because the resistance will vary
[13:17:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: send me some of that money
[13:17:25] <zeeshan> you have the money spending itch today!!!
[13:18:03] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: good reason behind not moving z
[13:18:18] <archivist> are you confusing resistance with back emf
[13:18:25] <PetefromTn_> hehe I don't have the money spending itch I have the Gotta get this damn machine moving itch!!
[13:18:52] <zeeshan> archivist: i was confusing it with the resistance on the motor shaft
[13:18:57] <zeeshan> (mechanical resistance)
[13:19:12] <Erant> zeeshan: Voltage != speed
[13:19:23] <zeeshan> Erant: but it is
[13:19:26] <zeeshan> =/
[13:19:39] <zeeshan> its directly proportional
[13:19:45] <Jymmm> RAMMING SPEED!!!
[13:19:47] <archivist> only on a tacho generator :)
[13:19:58] <Erant> If I hold a shaft, is there voltage over the motor?
[13:20:11] <zeeshan> over?
[13:20:21] <Erant> So the motor's not moving, but there is still a voltage.
[13:20:35] <Erant> Voltage is over, current is through.
[13:20:38] <archivist> stalled motor
[13:20:46] <Erant> Righto
[13:21:08] <archivist> lots of amps, some volts, no speed
[13:21:09] <zeeshan> speed ~ k*back_emf / flux per pole
[13:21:21] <zeeshan> k = constant ~ = proportional
[13:22:11] <PetefromTn_> ooh I gotta order the 7i77 din rail mount kits
[13:23:22] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: send me your warm up program
[13:23:23] <zeeshan> :-)
[13:24:02] <PetefromTn_> Ok I just gotta get it out of the machine? you would have to modify it quite a bit for your machine tho LOL
[13:24:12] <zeeshan> i thoguht you had it a cop yof it
[13:24:16] * zeeshan cant type
[13:24:50] <PetefromTn_> naah I wrote it on the machine actually
[13:25:18] <PetefromTn_> just start spindle, move X and Y back and forth, put a delay in there and do it again really
[13:25:22] <zeeshan> whats the delay gcode?
[13:25:32] <PetefromTn_> P4G whataver I think
[13:25:35] <zeeshan> never used that in my life before
[13:25:36] <zeeshan> haha
[13:25:42] <zeeshan> oh
[13:25:44] <zeeshan> dwell!
[13:25:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[13:26:01] <zeeshan> lemme try writing one :D
[13:26:06] <PetefromTn_> its dirt simple
[13:29:45] <XXCoder> how vital is warm up anyway
[13:30:05] <XXCoder> and do steppers need em or?
[13:30:40] <zeeshan> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#_looping
[13:30:47] <zeeshan> theres an error in the while endwhile exmaple
[13:30:52] <zeeshan> #1 = 1 (assign parameter #1 the value of 0)
[13:30:57] <zeeshan> dun make sense
[13:32:09] <pcw_home> In normal service, motor speed is roughly proportional to voltage
[13:32:11] <pcw_home> (motor voltage is close to back EMF) or you will fry your motor
[13:32:35] <zeeshan> when you add mechanical resistance to the motor
[13:32:41] <zeeshan> voltage tries to remain same
[13:32:48] <zeeshan> but the current will vary
[13:32:57] <zeeshan> in speed control mode?
[13:34:38] <pcw_home> as you increase the torque load,the current will go up so theres more loss in the motor electrical resistance
[13:35:54] <zeeshan> but in the case of current mode, the current will try to stay the same
[13:36:04] <zeeshan> but the controller will try to pump more voltage
[13:36:09] <pcw_home> Yes
[13:36:10] <zeeshan> to compensate for the mechanical resistance
[13:36:33] <pcw_home> yes thats the inner loop on most servo drives
[13:38:36] <zeeshan> pete how long do you stay at a spindle rpm during warm up
[13:38:39] <zeeshan> 30 s?
[13:39:18] <PetefromTn_> I think a minute and I step up in like 1000RPM increments or 500 I can't remember total time is like 20 minutes or less
[13:39:43] <zeeshan> okay ill do a min
[13:41:01] <zeeshan> is there way to thread in g-code?
[13:41:05] <zeeshan> =D
[13:41:24] <zeeshan> programming thread, not machining thread
[13:41:52] <ssi> of course not you loon
[13:41:56] <zeeshan> :-(
[13:42:00] <ssi> :)
[13:42:02] <zeeshan> how to keep spindle moving
[13:42:08] <zeeshan> and xy moving at same time
[13:42:08] <zeeshan> ;[
[13:42:24] <zeeshan> got 60 s delay after each spindle rpm change
[13:42:30] <zeeshan> so it wont look at any code while its in delay
[13:42:52] <ssi> instead of programming a delay, program x/y axis moves that will take 60s
[13:42:59] <zeeshan> haha
[13:43:04] <zeeshan> thats a good idea
[13:43:14] <zeeshan> excellent.
[13:43:21] <ssi> if your travel is 20", program G1 X20 F3
[13:43:23] <ssi> from 0 :)
[13:43:24] <zeeshan> yes
[13:43:31] <zeeshan> that is an excellent suggestion
[13:43:48] <anomynous_> what is the practical meaning of warming up except accuracy
[13:44:02] <zeeshan> dont blow up shit
[13:44:15] <PetefromTn_> my spindle runs continuously thru the program
[13:44:35] <PetefromTn_> just ramps up at each step
[13:45:53] <zeeshan> anomynous_: one important reason is bearings life. imagine when the bearings are not warm, you have ball bearings that have a gap between the inner and outer race.
[13:46:14] <anomynous_> so machine lightly when cold
[13:46:15] <anomynous_> ;D
[13:46:15] <zeeshan> now if you introduce load to the spindle, the ball bearings will slap against the races
[13:46:27] <zeeshan> pretty much
[13:46:30] <zeeshan> thats what ive done for a long time
[13:47:11] <zeeshan> but a warm up program will remove the need to worry.
[13:47:15] <zeeshan> you can go in full blast
[13:47:30] <zeeshan> ive noticed, the more nuisances you remove from machining
[13:47:36] <zeeshan> the more fun machining is
[13:48:00] <zeeshan> it could be as simple as silly post processor not outputting things right, so you have to manually go modify crap
[13:48:13] <zeeshan> to having to lube ways manually :P
[13:48:53] <anomynous_> i just... dont like our cam's post being a binary blob
[13:54:14] <MacGalempsy> hey gusy
[13:54:17] <MacGalempsy> guys
[13:54:23] <Sync> as long as it works anomynous_
[13:54:41] <anomynous_> well
[13:54:58] <anomynous_> Sync, it doesnt work if you have to modify it manually or write a script to modify it after posting
[13:55:02] <anomynous_> :)
[13:59:03] <zeeshan> 10
[13:59:21] <Sync> 9
[14:01:25] <zeeshan> ssi you dork
[14:01:38] <zeeshan> G1 X20 F3 will take 6.6666 s
[14:01:41] <zeeshan> not 60 :P
[14:02:03] <XXCoder> some machines its VERY good idea to add .
[14:02:10] <XXCoder> g1 x20. f3.
[14:02:15] <zeeshan> oh shit
[14:02:19] <zeeshan> its in min :-) not s
[14:02:21] <zeeshan> Zee dork.
[14:03:08] * jdh nods
[14:10:20] <PetefromTn_> nice...
[14:10:42] <bobo_> zeeshan: noticed a Pactical mach discussion
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/member-and-shop-photos/new-shop-machines-few-construction-pictures-included-214435/
[14:11:04] <PetefromTn_> looks like the pullies on my CNC lathe use Gates taper lock insert pullies and you can buy different inserts for different shafts. They make one in 14mm for like just over ten bucks!!
[14:13:06] <PetefromTn_> http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Gates-1210-14MM-Metric-Taper-Lock-Bushing-7858-0517-p67539.htm
[14:13:17] <bobo_> was interesting about the insurance part concerning a in home shop vers business
[14:14:01] <zeeshan> Bobo summarize for me? :D
[14:14:03] <Sync> pretty expensive PetefromTn_
[14:14:08] <zeeshan> nice pete
[14:15:14] <PetefromTn_> yup gonna break the bank buying two LOL
[14:15:27] <PetefromTn_> they sure are heavy duty little bastards
[14:15:29] <bobo_> home - hobby is ok but any sales could void insurance
[14:15:36] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, never shut the machine down then you don't need to warm it up
[14:15:57] <Tom_itx> if it's down it's not making money anyway
[14:16:01] <zeeshan> :)
[14:16:05] <XXCoder> my work machines is left on 24/7
[14:16:19] <zeeshan> yea but you gotta be using it
[14:16:22] <zeeshan> it cant sit idle :P
[14:16:43] <XXCoder> machines are busy 20 hours during m-th and fri-sun 12 hurs a day
[14:17:02] <XXCoder> but even if there is no staff to run that machine its left on
[14:19:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/DPpkwMe.png
[14:19:02] <zeeshan> warm up program
[14:19:11] <zeeshan> having tried it :P
[14:19:35] <XXCoder> using tool 1 as ref definitely isnt suggested byt since its warm up whatever
[14:19:39] <Sync> well PetefromTn_ my industrial supplier does them for about $3
[14:19:51] <zeeshan> my tool 1 is a reference tool :p
[14:19:52] <zeeshan> thats dinky.
[14:20:01] <zeeshan> i just wanted that in there because
[14:20:06] <zeeshan> i dont wanna forget tool 6 in there
[14:20:09] <zeeshan> and run this program
[14:20:21] <zeeshan> i doubt it'll crash w/ z=1
[14:20:24] <zeeshan> but still :P
[14:20:30] <XXCoder> yeah
[14:20:42] <XXCoder> though I do wonder if steppers need warm up or not.
[14:20:49] <zeeshan> anything with a bearing
[14:20:52] <zeeshan> and way needs to be warmed
[14:20:56] <bobo_> SND (the author/writer) is in Canada and was noteing the zoning issues
[14:20:59] <zeeshan> or you can take it easy for the first 10-15 min.
[14:22:51] <Sync> the warmup cycle on a friends okuma takes about 45 mins
[14:24:09] <Tom_itx> you pasted that as an image since you didn't wanna share the file?
[14:24:13] <zeeshan> tom yers
[14:24:15] <zeeshan> i havent test it yet
[14:24:37] <Tom_itx> i seldom test code i share :)
[14:24:41] <zeeshan> rofl
[14:25:28] <Sync> #yolo
[14:26:56] <ssi> zeeshan: watever :)
[14:31:06] <XXCoder> whoa
[14:31:07] <XXCoder> http://www.sciencealert.com/this-gif-shows-how-mind-blowingly-fast-new-horizons-is-travelling-through-space
[14:31:09] <XXCoder> fast.
[14:40:28] <zeeshan> that looks like when i look outside the window of my rx7
[14:40:32] <zeeshan> :D
[14:41:04] <XXCoder> yet compared to space, it really is slow.
[14:41:15] <XXCoder> too bad we dont have effective ion drive yet
[14:41:27] <XXCoder> let alone some real FTL
[14:41:40] <PetefromTn_> shit my van can do better than that ;)
[14:42:06] <zeeshan> haha
[14:44:30] <ssi> speed is always relative
[14:44:50] <ssi> 550mph looks slow as balls when you're staring out the window at clouds thousands of feet away and the ground seven miles away
[14:45:02] <ssi> but when you're 50' away from the ground it's a little different :)
[14:45:05] <PetefromTn_> yup like my Cinci will relatively blow away my old RF45 ;)
[14:45:47] <ssi> case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VtT7kZNl-s
[14:46:01] <PetefromTn_> and my new CNC Standard Modern will be a-blowin' away my old 12x36 :D
[14:50:12] <XXCoder> lol PetefromTn_
[14:50:55] <PetefromTn_> all I am missing now is the damn spindle drive....
[14:51:02] <ssi> what did you order
[14:51:08] <XXCoder> your van MIGHT be faster and awesome, but it's not go there and take photos of pluto awesome.
[14:51:34] <PetefromTn_> I ordered basically everything I need to finish the lathe but the vfd
[14:51:46] <PetefromTn_> gonna have to wait on that until probably next week or so
[14:52:11] <PetefromTn_> some of the stuff is already here
[14:52:53] <PetefromTn_> That is just to get the machine running I still need to get a chuck/collet chuck and a toolpost too...
[14:53:07] <PetefromTn_> but I bought some tooling already too
[14:53:45] <PetefromTn_> Hoping to have the machine making parts by Christmas or so
[14:54:02] <PetefromTn_> possibly earlier depending on how much spare time I have
[14:54:03] <ssi> I meant vfd
[14:54:06] <ssi> what are you planning to order
[14:54:26] <PetefromTn_> Well since there is not anything good that is cheaper probably going to get another Hitachi
[14:54:34] <ssi> yeah
[14:54:40] <ssi> they're not that expensive for what they are
[14:54:44] <ssi> what size are you going to get?
[14:54:46] <ssi> 15
[14:54:46] <ssi> ?
[14:54:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have to
[14:54:59] <ssi> yea, 7.5hp spindle?
[14:54:59] <PetefromTn_> 800 bucks is not cheap to me LOL
[14:55:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah 7.5
[14:55:11] <ssi> yea
[14:55:16] <ssi> I got a 25 for my 15hp spindle
[14:55:19] <ssi> it's the biggest they make :P
[14:55:37] <PetefromTn_> what amps will that pull?
[14:56:12] <ssi> I don't recall.... 35A 3ph I think?
[14:56:16] <ssi> I have it cabled for 60A
[14:56:39] <PetefromTn_> Ok sounds good
[14:56:41] <Sync> try buying a yaskawa spindle drive PetefromTn_ :P
[14:56:47] <PetefromTn_> no thanks
[14:57:14] <PetefromTn_> thats why I retrofit so I could get away from the super stupid expensive original control stuff
[14:57:36] <PetefromTn_> the original spindle drive in my Cinci was like $3500
[14:57:49] <zeeshan-mill> jeez
[14:57:52] <ssi> I still need to sell the fanuc drives out of mine
[14:57:54] <PetefromTn_> thats more than I have in the whole machine
[14:58:15] <XXCoder> crazy.
[14:58:31] <ssi> PetefromTn_: and that's the USED price on ebay
[14:58:36] <ssi> I shudder to think what it'd cost to get one new
[14:59:23] <Z98> hi all, a question about the iso image on the site, the one for 2.7, when it's booted up, i only have the option for a 32bit boot
[14:59:31] <Z98> is there a 64bit available?
[15:08:22] <PetefromTn_> ssi yeah man its nutz
[15:08:36] <PetefromTn_> I was just looking over my stuff
[15:09:07] <XXCoder> Z98: probbly not?
[15:09:38] <PetefromTn_> apparenlty the only pulley that took that taper shaft is the Z axis ballscrew the other pullies are fixed size and the one that WAS on the original motor is actually only 13mm and my new motor is 14mm so I may just have to bore that one out to fit
[15:10:06] <PetefromTn_> I can't seem to find where I put the pulley for the motor for the Z axis tho
[15:10:35] <PetefromTn_> if I can't find It I will need to order a new pulley for that one
[15:10:47] <PetefromTn_> the machine used 3/4 inch wide belts on the axes
[15:13:22] <Z98> does anyone run 64bit versions of linuxcnc here then?
[15:13:30] <Z98> or does everyone just go with the 32bit version
[15:13:35] <PetefromTn_> Oh did I mention the new motors fit PERFECTLY in the machine's motor mounts??!! :D
[15:14:09] <PetefromTn_> just bolt on beauty baby hehehe
[15:14:31] <ssi> nice :D
[15:15:07] <PetefromTn_> still even with the almost plug and play everything here I STILL have a ton of work to do on this thing SIGH
[15:15:46] <Z98> first 90% is easy
[15:15:50] <Z98> next 9% is hard
[15:15:57] <PetefromTn_> hehe exactly right
[15:15:59] <Z98> last 1% is a kick in the nuts
[15:16:17] <ssi> yeah
[15:16:17] <PetefromTn_> godzilla kick in the family jewels
[15:16:25] <ssi> that's why I have 90% complete projects everywhere
[15:16:34] <ssi> two 90% complete airplanes, two 90% complete cnc machines, etc :)
[15:18:43] <XXCoder> ssi: you're Professor Calamitous!
[15:18:54] <ssi> is that a discworld thing?
[15:18:57] <jdh> the first 90% is easy, it's the second 90% that takes all the time
[15:19:00] <XXCoder> hes a villian in comic, he can't complete anything
[15:19:00] <ssi> I never discworld'd
[15:19:02] <ssi> oh
[15:19:09] <ssi> jdh: exactly
[15:19:17] <XXCoder> http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Professor_Calamitous
[15:21:40] <zeeshan-mill> man these chinese engraving bits
[15:21:45] <zeeshan-mill> are raping ss304
[15:21:48] <zeeshan-mill> im suprsed
[15:21:56] <zeeshan-mill> first china cutting tool that works
[15:22:14] <PetefromTn_> which ones ya get?
[15:22:52] <zeeshan-mill> ill find a link
[15:23:00] <zeeshan-mill> but they were like 20 bux for 10
[15:23:08] <PetefromTn_> wow thats cheap
[15:23:10] <zeeshan-mill> .010 nose radius
[15:23:18] <zeeshan-mill> solid carbide 1/8 shank 30 deg taper
[15:23:24] <PetefromTn_> 1/8 shank?
[15:23:37] <PetefromTn_> and you're RAPING STAINLESS?
[15:23:41] <zeeshan-mill> yea!!
[15:23:43] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[15:23:55] <zeeshan-mill> well to me rape in engraving is 6ipm
[15:24:00] <zeeshan-mill> with this dinky little thing
[15:24:02] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to not sound astonished
[15:24:06] <zeeshan-mill> im suprised the nose didnt break off
[15:24:09] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:24:15] <zeeshan-mill> 3000 rpm
[15:24:29] <zeeshan-mill> do you get some burrs?
[15:24:33] <zeeshan-mill> i nose a few burrs
[15:24:35] <PetefromTn_> I broke one on the steel but it was when I was plunging in I ACCIDENTALLY had it set to my plunge from safe speed of 25IPM
[15:24:36] <zeeshan-mill> but generally looks good
[15:24:54] <PetefromTn_> not really the cuts look great right off the machine
[15:25:06] <PetefromTn_> I was running 5500 at 10IPM
[15:25:11] <PetefromTn_> I think anyway
[15:25:27] <PetefromTn_> I only have one of those bastards left LOL
[15:25:35] <zeeshan-mill> so lucky you got high rpm
[15:26:12] <PetefromTn_> heh that's NOT high RPM LOL
[15:28:53] <PetefromTn_> https://bitsbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_45&products_id=133&zenid=f1bf1d470894ddf9410ecf46ea77f1ea
[15:29:07] <PetefromTn_> thats the ones I used with .020 tip
[15:30:54] <zeeshan-mill> link doesnt work on this comp for me
[15:31:16] <PetefromTn_> actually I think I got the 70 degree ones but I can't remember actually and the box does not say it
[15:31:49] <PetefromTn_> its part number 420-HF60 so I assume that is .020 tip and 60 degree angle
[15:31:52] <zeeshan-mill> how is this tip not breaking?
[15:31:56] <zeeshan-mill> im plunging at 1ipm
[15:32:01] <zeeshan-mill> its like a tooth pick
[15:32:02] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[15:32:10] <PetefromTn_> wow that is slow I think I plunged at 5
[15:32:15] <zeeshan-mill> ah
[15:32:21] <zeeshan-mill> but im at 3000 rpm
[15:32:22] <PetefromTn_> but my bits are 1/4 shank
[15:32:27] <PetefromTn_> and .020 tip
[15:32:30] <chuckbob> would someone familiar with servo tuning look at this graph and tell me if and what I need to continue tuning?
[15:32:35] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/zAdVngH.jpg
[15:33:37] <chuckbob> had to snap it with a phone camera as that computer has not network access
[15:34:12] <ssi> turn the P gain down a bit, see if the ringing improves
[15:35:08] <chuckbob> will give it a shot
[15:35:21] <zeeshan-mill> i was snapping this same type of bit at school
[15:35:24] <zeeshan-mill> about same parameters
[15:35:28] <zeeshan-mill> i think their spindle has runout
[15:35:38] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[15:35:39] <zeeshan-mill> only thing i can think of for the difference
[15:36:37] <zeeshan-mill> i wish i could open that image
[15:36:44] <zeeshan-mill> if i had a j1900....
[15:36:47] <Sync> possible
[15:37:02] <PetefromTn_> what image?
[15:37:21] <zeeshan-mill> yours and the tuner guy
[15:38:59] <chuckbob> I turned down the P gain, 90%, 80% 70%.... helped out slightly maybe, but stiffness suffered
[15:39:23] <chuckbob> This is the first time I have tried tuning a servo, so I am in the weeds a bit
[15:39:52] <zeeshan-mill> there we go
[15:39:55] <zeeshan-mill> 10 pieces
[15:39:58] <zeeshan-mill> and first snap
[15:40:08] <chuckbob> and the f-error increased
[15:40:13] <PetefromTn_> shit
[15:40:33] <ssi> chuckbob: put the P back and try tweaking FF2 and see if the accel transient improves
[15:40:44] <ssi> make it a little more negative I think
[15:40:46] <ssi> very slightly
[15:40:53] <chuckbob> ok, FF2 is currently at .015
[15:41:06] <PetefromTn_> I guess I was lucky other than the initial crash from the fast plunge I machined like 30 of those steel plates with the same engraver..
[15:41:10] <chuckbob> I have tried it at .025 and get following error
[15:41:24] <ssi> turn your ferror setting up while you're tuning
[15:41:29] <ssi> so you can see the response
[15:42:15] <chuckbob> so what am I really looking for, is there a good graph somewhere that a person could try to mimic somewhat?
[15:42:22] <zeeshan-mill> this is stainless tho!!
[15:42:23] <zeeshan-mill> =[
[15:42:33] <zeeshan-mill> this is why they come in a set of 10
[15:42:34] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[15:42:39] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:42:41] <zeeshan-mill> were you doing a single pass
[15:42:45] <PetefromTn_> where did you get em?
[15:42:50] <zeeshan-mill> ebay
[15:42:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah single pass .030 deep
[15:43:03] <zeeshan-mill> wow
[15:43:08] <zeeshan-mill> im doing .015
[15:43:27] <PetefromTn_> stainless sux
[15:45:07] <zeeshan-mill> fak.
[15:45:11] <zeeshan-mill> there breaks another
[15:45:14] <zeeshan-mill> completely my fault
[15:45:21] <zeeshan-mill> spanner slipped and hit it
[15:45:22] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[15:45:41] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[15:45:55] <Contract_Pilot> Sup?
[15:46:43] <Contract_Pilot> Shaking this head cold maybe be able to get to wiring up the 7I76 soon
[15:52:18] <ssi> PCW: hey does this mean anything to you?
[15:52:18] <ssi> can't use non-numeric floating-point value as operand of "-" while executing
[15:52:19] <ssi> "expr $ret" (procedure "watchLoop" line 16)
[15:52:46] <ssi> I have a 32 bit unsigned input pd, and I'm sending 0x00000000 from the remote, and that's the error I get when I try to watch the pin in hal
[15:54:13] <ssi> if I set it to non-zero, it shows up in hal as inf
[15:54:21] <ssi> this all worked with 16 bit unsigneds fwiw
[15:54:57] * Jymmm voids ssi
[15:58:03] <ssi> and it works with 24 bit unsigned... weird
[15:58:19] <ssi> I wonder if there's something about the hm2 code that makes unsigned 32 bits in particular not work
[15:58:22] <ssi> lemme try 31 bit pd
[15:59:26] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/FX9tdeB.jpg
[15:59:31] <chuckbob> doesn't seem much better
[15:59:34] <chuckbob> any advice?
[15:59:53] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-mill, those engraving bits sound like the ones i got
[16:00:17] <ssi> chuckbob: first of all, tell me what I'm looking at
[16:00:26] <ssi> is that the velocity ramping up from zero to a steady-state cruise
[16:00:29] <ssi> or is that a position jog
[16:00:30] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, you got that junk bolted to your lathe yet????
[16:00:57] <chuckbob> it's from a jog, left then to right
[16:00:57] <PetefromTn_> JUNK!!!!!!!
[16:01:13] <ssi> velocity mode servo, yes?
[16:01:13] <PetefromTn_> WHAT JUNK!!!!!
[16:01:21] <chuckbob> torque.. no tach
[16:01:22] * Tom_itx snickers
[16:01:24] <PetefromTn_> AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGhhhhhhh
[16:01:44] <PetefromTn_> and no....no I do not why?
[16:01:53] <chuckbob> cui amt 102 encoders, 1000 counts on a 20tpi screw
[16:02:17] <PetefromTn_> I am in the blowing large sums of cash sitting in front of the PC imagining all this fitting together somehow stages
[16:02:36] <Tom_itx> hint: walk away from the pc...
[16:02:50] <ssi> chuckbob: I don't have any experience tuning torque mode sadly :/
[16:02:53] <PetefromTn_> CAN'T
[16:02:55] <Tom_itx> you gonna have to build mounts for the servos?
[16:03:01] <PetefromTn_> nope
[16:03:05] <ssi> chuckbob: but... it's hard to tell exactly how to tune based on your picture
[16:03:08] <PetefromTn_> junk bolts right up :D
[16:03:29] <ssi> what I usually do is set up a jog that's relatively low speed, and long enough that it has a distinct accel, cruise, and decel phase visible in halscope
[16:03:35] <Tom_itx> you musta got the good junk then
[16:03:44] <PetefromTn_> yessir
[16:03:51] <PetefromTn_> best junk I could afford ;)
[16:04:10] <ssi> that way you can clearly see what the ferror does during the jerk to accel, accel, jerk to cruise, steady-velocity cruise, jerk to decel, decel, and jerk to stopped
[16:04:29] <ssi> try setting it up that way and take a picture, and maybe I can help further :)
[16:04:35] <PetefromTn_> I gotta grab a DB25 cable and make sure it plugs into my drives
[16:04:40] <PetefromTn_> it SHOULD
[16:04:53] <PetefromTn_> and if it does I will have a huge freaking smile on my face LOL
[16:05:04] <ssi> PCW: does seem like 31 bit unsigneds work, but 32 bits don't. Not going to matter because I'm about to implement signed pds, but something worth noting
[16:05:36] <Tom_itx> so you won't have to reduce the servo drives to the lathe then
[16:06:13] <C_P-Away> May have to revisit tut's tomb.
http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S4010831-1024x768.jpg
[16:06:32] <PetefromTn_> so I can just plug the connector in and cut and paste the other end into the 7i77 stuff
[16:06:55] <ssi> PetefromTn_: what connector is on the other end now?
[16:06:58] <PetefromTn_> on the teco's they used some odd sized high density connector and I had to solder ever damn line
[16:07:09] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[16:07:25] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, is the 7i77 screw terminals?
[16:07:30] <ssi> oh I see what you're saying
[16:07:33] <ssi> the drive has a db25
[16:07:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah just screw em down
[16:07:44] <ssi> that's nice
[16:07:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah just DB25 it says but I have not checked
[16:07:57] <ssi> I spent a bunch of money and time building custom cables for the parker drives with those stupid high density centronics connectors
[16:07:59] <Tom_itx> it should be
[16:08:00] <PCW> Probably a driver bug as we have no unsigned numbers that large
[16:08:02] <ssi> and then I couldn't even use the stupid things
[16:08:11] <PetefromTn_> I know man that bites
[16:08:17] <ssi> PCW: we won't have them either, but it was an interesting catch during testing
[16:08:37] <PetefromTn_> I had to solder all three of the drives on the Cinci and it was time consuming
[16:08:37] <Tom_itx> luckily i can get those plugs locally
[16:08:41] <PCW> on the other hand more than about 20 bits is pretty useless for real process params
[16:08:44] <Tom_itx> db25 male or female
[16:08:58] <PCW> (ans slows everything down)
[16:09:08] <ssi> PCW: well they're wanting to use position command and feedback, with a scale of +/-10000mm
[16:09:15] <ssi> so I sorta need the resolution :/
[16:09:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah it SHOULD be but some of these chinese drives use a japanese version that is non standard here
[16:09:29] <ssi> I'm hoping that eventually I can implement axis scale as a global, and rescale the pd on the fly
[16:09:33] <PCW> not 32 bits worth
[16:09:35] <ssi> I'm just not sure if that's feasible with sserial
[16:09:56] <ssi> well it's 10,000 machine units, if units is inch then 32 bits is like 2.4 microinch res
[16:10:04] <ssi> which is overkill, but only an order of magnitude or so
[16:10:07] <ssi> 24 bit wouldn't be enough
[16:10:29] <zeeshan-mill> broke another..
[16:10:32] <zeeshan-mill> need high rpm spindle
[16:10:33] <Contract_Pilot> Hey SSI
[16:10:35] <ssi> hey cp
[16:10:37] <zeeshan-mill> too much chipload
[16:10:53] <ssi> zeeshan-mill: reduce chipload nub! ;)
[16:11:06] <zeeshan-mill> hhe
[16:11:26] <ssi> PCW: we still haven't gotten globals and modes working yet, so I'm fuzzy on the details of how they work
[16:11:33] <Contract_Pilot> Looks like coor's or keystone but 8%
http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Petra-Beer-768x1024.jpg
[16:11:47] <ssi> but my hope is that there's a way to make it so that you can set the axis scale in parameters on the host, and that'll change the pd scaling
[16:12:01] <ssi> might have to switch modes in order to get the host to re-discover the ptoc? I'm fuzzy on that part
[16:12:06] <PCW> 28 bits would bits would be 1 um with 32M motion
[16:12:06] <ssi> I don't really understand how modes are selected
[16:12:13] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-mill, chip load isn't based on rpm silly
[16:12:26] <Contract_Pilot> Indiana Jones time!
http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Abit-Close-768x1024.jpg
[16:12:37] <zeeshan-mill> i know
[16:12:39] <PetefromTn_> zerodivide says 3k is 8IPM
[16:12:40] <Tom_itx> you're just impatient
[16:12:52] <zeeshan-mill> im at 0.001 , need to be at 0.005
[16:13:00] <zeeshan-mill> so reduced feed
[16:13:01] <Tom_itx> deep?
[16:13:07] <zeeshan-mill> no chipload
[16:13:58] <zeeshan-mill> feed = rpm * chipload * teeth = 3000*.0005 *1 = 1.5ipm
[16:14:05] <zeeshan-mill> meant to type 0.0005 not 0.005 earlier
[16:14:12] <PCW> you need to select the mode first to get the matching PTOC pointer
[16:14:22] <PetefromTn_> I was gonna say
[16:14:29] <PetefromTn_> that is not right
[16:14:43] <ssi> PCW: how are modes selected?
[16:14:51] <ssi> PCW: I'm describing modes in the gtoc, but they don't show up in dmesg
[16:15:15] <ssi> just below parameters in dmesg for the remote, I see this:
[16:15:15] <ssi> [446655.163609] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Globals:
[16:15:15] <ssi> [446655.163614] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Modes:
[16:15:21] <ssi> (with debug modules on)
[16:15:39] <ssi> I'm describing globals too, but they don't show up in dmesg or in parameters in hal
[16:16:31] <PCW> I dont think globals show up as parameters in hal (though they can be used as names by setsserial)
[16:17:19] <ssi> yeah I just don't fully understand globals and modes yet
[16:17:25] <ssi> I have a handle on process vars now though :D
[16:17:41] <ssi> just need to make my bitpacking routines work for signed vals and I should be golden
[16:18:13] <PCW> bit packing on the remote?
[16:18:16] <ssi> yes
[16:18:42] <ssi> I gotta say, there's a lot of cleverness in lbp/sserial
[16:18:46] <PCW> if you are lazy you can use padding, but packing is better for serial overhead
[16:18:51] <ssi> I'm doing full packing
[16:19:07] <ssi> my test case has a 3 bit BITS pd followed by a 10 bit UNSIGNED pd followed by a 3 bit BITS pd :)
[16:19:11] <ssi> and that works well :)
[16:19:59] <PCW> Does mesaflash show anything interesting with your drive?
[16:20:14] <ssi> I haven't tried to do anything with it with mesaflash
[16:20:43] <PCW> mesaflash has some limited sserial data dump ability
[16:21:57] <PCW> Do you get a vaild GTOC pointer when you start the link?
[16:22:25] <ssi> yeah, I've captured the full toc dump over the line and the host reads all of it out
[16:22:30] <ssi> both gtoc and ptoc
[16:22:46] <ssi> I dunno how to use mesaflash with it, it wants a device name, and I'm assuming that's the device name we present in the remote
[16:22:51] <ssi> but mesaflash seems like maybe it has a whitelist
[16:22:55] <ssi> cause it doesn't like my device name
[16:23:05] <PCW> device name is FPGA card name
[16:23:15] <Contract_Pilot> SSI Changing a Tire in Tarawa on the ramp... Not to fun of a Job... in 105 degree heat and full Humidity.
http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/100_3483-1024x768.jpg
[16:23:26] <ssi> oh ok
[16:24:07] <Contract_Pilot> Have to love them 8" Junkers
http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/133-1024x768.jpg
[16:24:13] * PCW thinks sserial is easier to debug with hex register read/writes
[16:24:23] <ssi> I do see both devices via mesaflash
[16:24:24] <ssi> device at channel 1: 7I77 (unit 0x1100025A)
[16:24:24] <ssi> device at channel 2: stbl (unit 0x10000176)
[16:24:49] <ssi> cp lul nice
[16:26:02] <PCW> bbl work
[16:26:03] <micges> ssi: try with --verbose
[16:27:07] <ssi> thanks :)
[16:27:33] <micges> if sane data will show up then hm2 driver will also work
[16:28:18] <ssi> yeah it's all showing up
[16:28:19] <ssi> http://pastebin.com/bVHGR6CQ
[16:28:41] <ssi> pos_cmd and pos_fb are the pd vars I'm describing, swr is a global pd, and foo and io_ are modes
[16:29:46] <ssi> so maybe globals and modes are working fine, I just have no idea how to interact with them on the host side
[16:30:33] <rene-dev_> PCW: while logging a 7i76, it reads from other mem locations as well, and uese a few reserved local reads and writes... what do the do?
http://pastebin.com/VpT1ndxM
[16:31:02] <ssi> it's querying our remote for some of those things too
[16:31:28] <rene-dev_> sorry, the protol decoder doesnt show the hex values for the reserved stuff...
[16:32:42] <Deejay> gn8
[16:33:38] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/SVrQvGF.jpg
[16:33:43] <chuckbob> Not sure if we're getting anywhere
[16:34:12] <chuckbob> this is a 10"/min jog from a stop... then the opposite direction
[16:34:47] <ssi> can you zoom in so that the accel phase is more obvious?
[16:34:55] <ssi> I don't care so much about the decel part
[16:39:53] <chuckbob> http://i.imgur.com/IRaRwZx.jpg
[16:40:32] <zeeshan-mill> i think the mist cool was killing th ebit
[16:40:39] <zeeshan-mill> air blast seems to be working
[16:40:45] <zeeshan-mill> more than 10 done with this method..
[16:41:03] <ssi> chuckbob: what are your current tuning values
[16:41:05] <zeeshan-mill> pete do you have a tumler
[16:41:22] <zeeshan-mill> tumbler
[16:41:27] <ssi> by current I mean "now", not "charge in motion" :)
[16:41:40] <ssi> zeeshan-mill: I have a couple
[16:42:28] <chuckbob> P:2500, I:2, D:1.5
[16:42:37] <chuckbob> FF1 4.1
[16:42:40] <ssi> 2500 seems incredibly high
[16:42:49] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[16:42:53] <zeeshan-mill> could be normal :P
[16:42:56] <ssi> could be
[16:42:57] <chuckbob> sorry, it is actually 1250
[16:43:01] <ssi> write those down, and start from scratch
[16:43:06] <ssi> with ff tuning, I rarely need I or D terms
[16:43:09] <chuckbob> that was the previous value
[16:43:21] <zeeshan-mill> are your servos velocity based
[16:43:28] <chuckbob> no tachs
[16:43:32] <zeeshan-mill> did you tune the vel loop already?
[16:43:32] <chuckbob> AMC brushed drives
[16:43:34] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[16:43:42] <zeeshan-mill> so do you have in in vel mode for drives
[16:43:46] <zeeshan-mill> i got exact setup
[16:43:47] <ssi> no, torque mode
[16:43:49] <zeeshan-mill> what model
[16:43:51] <ssi> he has no tachs
[16:43:54] <zeeshan-mill> oh
[16:46:35] <chuckbob> so, start from scratch.. no i or d terms
[16:46:41] <chuckbob> and an ff1 of 1?
[16:46:48] <ssi> 0
[16:46:55] <ssi> 0 i, 0 d, 0 ff1, 0 ff2
[16:47:02] <ssi> altough I don't think you get ff2 in torque mode
[16:47:05] <ssi> not really sure
[16:47:07] <chuckbob> ok
[16:47:17] <chuckbob> won't move with a p of 0
[16:47:47] <ssi> yeah now increase p until it gets unstable
[16:48:14] <ssi> is there an FF0?
[16:48:29] <ssi> if so, I believe that'll be your velocity offset control in torque mode
[16:48:38] <ssi> and FF1 will be your accel offset control
[16:48:54] <ssi> so once you find a max practical value for P, show me a pic of halscope
[16:54:14] <Roguish> chuchbob: make written notes of the changes and results. it can get quite confusing.......
[16:55:47] <chuckbob> well, for starter.. some reason had it in a voltage mode
[16:56:14] <chuckbob> switched the switches to current....
[16:56:33] <chuckbob> now, i get an oscillation with a p of 400
[16:56:48] <chuckbob> time to start over.. not sure what I was doing... I was picking up from a project 4 months ago
[16:58:07] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[17:04:27] <PCW> Torque mode tuning is mainly as much D as possible first (basically closing the velocity loop)
[17:04:28] <PCW> and then as much P as it stable
[17:06:42] <PCW> voltage mode may be OK also, (tuning is sort of 1/2 way between velocity and torque mode)
[17:08:56] <PCW> That is voltage mode needs FF1 (back EMF compensation) but torque mode typically does not
[17:09:56] <PCW> voltage mode needs less D (since it has inherent damping)
[17:17:27] <PetefromTn_> I think I am gonna throw my kids PC out in the street LOL
[17:18:00] <PetefromTn_> it has a netgear wireless adapter and it always hooks up but it often says no internet access despite my every effort to remedy it
[17:18:37] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: I got wifi dongle for 5 bucks inc shipping. works fine
[17:18:41] <XXCoder> easy enough t replace
[17:19:02] <PetefromTn_> that is what this is.. wifi dongle /USB stick
[17:19:26] <XXCoder> hah it has fake sale but here it is
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-150M-USB-WiFi-Wireless-Network-WI-FI-Networking-Card-Wifi-Antenna-LAN-Adapter-Computer-Accessories/1246811930.html
[17:19:31] <PetefromTn_> it says connected but now it always says no internet accesss
[17:19:58] <XXCoder> check around, some maleare may be inferening with it
[17:20:42] <PetefromTn_> have been.... just frustrated with the damn thing and my kids look at me like I shot Santa Claus when I tell them its not working and I don't know why ;)
[17:21:02] <XXCoder> good, that merry bastard...
[17:21:03] <XXCoder> heh jk
[17:22:31] <ssi> I ordered something from aliexpress for the first time this week :P
[17:23:00] <XXCoder> yeah? what was it
[17:23:05] <ssi> a usb logic analyzer
[17:23:14] <PetefromTn_> I've never been able to bring myself to order from them for some reason LOL
[17:23:35] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: so far its kinda oj
[17:23:37] <XXCoder> ok
[17:23:47] <XXCoder> some sucks, for example car leds
[17:24:00] <XXCoder> but others like wifi dongle I use works fine
[17:25:21] <ssi> well that's annoying
[17:25:24] <ssi> I got an email saying it shipped
[17:25:30] <ssi> but the email sayl "You are advised to contact the seller for shipment information"
[17:25:40] <PetefromTn_> oh hell
[17:25:42] <ssi> I bought it from aliexpress, s far as I'm concerned they ARE the seller
[17:25:45] <PetefromTn_> that does not sound good
[17:25:48] <ssi> yeah seriously
[17:26:01] <XXCoder> aliexpress is like ebay
[17:26:03] <XXCoder> many sellers
[17:26:34] <ssi> XXCoder: ebay sends me a tracking number when the item ships
[17:26:44] <XXCoder> yeah
[17:26:45] <PetefromTn_> yup
[17:26:48] <ssi> they don't send me a note saying "hey they shipped it, you should go learn their language so you can figure out how to get a tracking number"
[17:27:05] <PetefromTn_> you're on your own sucka
[17:27:07] <PetefromTn_> :D
[17:30:22] <malcom2073> ssi: If you have a complaint, feel free to walk into the Aliexpress office in Shinzen and complain :P
[17:30:47] <ssi> heh yeah
[17:30:48] <malcom2073> On a related note: My newegg steppers never arrived. I have to wait for 30 days to file a complaint
[17:31:09] <PetefromTn_> newegg sells steppers?
[17:31:18] <malcom2073> Newegg is like amazon
[17:31:20] <malcom2073> tons of sellers
[17:31:29] <ssi> malcom2073: same here
[17:31:39] <malcom2073> ssi: ContractPilot got his oddly enough
[17:31:43] <malcom2073> I think they wised up to the price mixup
[17:31:43] <XXCoder> malcom2073: whats wrong with steppers
[17:31:51] <malcom2073> XXCoder: They never arrived
[17:31:56] <malcom2073> They're invisible!
[17:32:10] <XXCoder> aw stepper fairy got to it
[17:32:19] <malcom2073> Seems so
[17:32:33] <malcom2073> I got 4 of them at least, the last 4 got it
[17:32:35] <PetefromTn_> cool invisible steppers!!
[17:32:38] <ssi> yeah cp ruined it for everyone else by buying seven hundred of them
[17:32:45] <malcom2073> ssi: I honestly believe that :P
[17:32:49] <XXCoder> 700
[17:33:07] <XXCoder> perfect for 350 axis cnc machinbe
[17:33:17] <PetefromTn_> wtf would you do with 700 of em?
[17:33:27] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: like I said... heh
[17:33:31] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: That's what we asked him, he didn't have a response really, other than "for stuff"
[17:33:42] <XXCoder> reseller I bet
[17:33:51] <malcom2073> I think he's converting his mill, and a couple hundred of his friends mills too
[17:33:59] <XXCoder> thats the only honest answer I can think of
[17:34:19] <malcom2073> He only bought like 20 though, not enough to be worth it to resell unless you're into pennies
[17:34:25] <PetefromTn_> its not like there are not hundreds of sellers already killing each other pricing them you would have to have stolen them to really be worth it.
[17:34:33] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: He did steal them
[17:34:36] <malcom2073> $8 for stepper + driver
[17:35:17] <PetefromTn_> so he bought $5600 worth of steppers then?
[17:35:25] <malcom2073> He only bought 20, we were exaggerating
[17:35:30] <PetefromTn_> ah ok
[17:35:41] <XXCoder> ah only 10 axis machine then heh
[17:35:54] <malcom2073> Two per axis?
[17:36:32] <XXCoder> yeah Im assuming that lol
[17:36:34] <renesis> wtf 10 axis
[17:36:56] <renesis> someone linuxcnc'd a gundam?
[17:36:59] <XXCoder> oh look ren complains on 10 axis and was fine with previoys 350 axis one lol
[17:37:08] <malcom2073> lol
[17:37:11] <renesis> wasnt paying attention
[17:37:17] <XXCoder> yeah guess that lol
[17:37:28] <renesis> 350 would actually work for large humanoid power armor
[17:37:42] <malcom2073> Beyond 5 gets silly
[17:37:50] <XXCoder> actually I know aqctual 21 axis cnc
[17:38:00] <XXCoder> its wire bender with 8 tools
[17:38:06] <malcom2073> Heh, or speciality stuff
[17:38:17] <XXCoder> yeah
[17:38:23] <renesis> those bar stock machine centers probably got a ton of named axis
[17:38:41] <XXCoder> 11 axis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCRCcwDeKQ
[17:39:04] * malcom2073 thinks XXCoder just youtubed for "20 axis..... nope, 19... nope... 18.... nope... *repeat until 11*"
[17:39:04] <renesis> cnc demo music is so fucked
[17:39:36] <malcom2073> Yo dawg I heard you liked spindles, so I put a spindle on your spindle
[17:40:31] <renesis> its basically 'we put a mill in your lathe so you can mill while you turn'
[17:40:52] <malcom2073> That's a lathe in a lathe too
[17:41:09] <XXCoder> theres spindle in few locations
[17:41:22] <malcom2073> I guess if you need to make a million widgets
[17:41:25] <XXCoder> I guess it can be mill or lathe on any side of that movable thing
[17:41:26] <renesis> yeah ive seen the ones that will grab the parts on an opposing vise, then finish it on the other side
[17:41:33] <XXCoder> or tooling
[17:41:54] <renesis> basically two acis, one with a pivoting vise, also the spindle head articulates
[17:42:11] <renesis> so around 10 axis doesnt sound too crazy
[17:42:28] <XXCoder> its 11 I cant figure where 11th is
[17:42:43] <renesis> prob parts catcher
[17:42:47] <XXCoder> yeah
[17:42:50] <malcom2073> The hydraulic chuck?
[17:42:52] <renesis> heh
[17:43:21] <XXCoder> I can't imange coding for this.
[17:43:32] <malcom2073> YOu buy software that does it for you :P
[17:43:38] <renesis> ya srs
[17:43:54] <XXCoder> yeah expenive packages
[17:43:56] <renesis> writing the software to write the code for these things must be nuts
[17:43:59] <XXCoder> ohh
[17:44:03] <XXCoder> it shows software at end
[17:44:12] <XXCoder> little bit but yeah
[17:45:16] <XXCoder> 10 axis. odd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZBQQPhOH8g
[17:46:11] <Sync> I wonder why they only advance the rod onto the hardstop
[17:48:15] <JT-Mobile> Evening
[17:48:33] <Sync> someone who obviously does not like his machine XXCoder :D
[17:48:33] <XXCoder> hey
[17:48:51] <XXCoder> Sync: was someone talking on video?
[17:50:37] <Sync> no
[17:50:41] <Sync> but no way covery
[17:50:50] <Sync> ~covers even
[17:59:14] <XXCoder> ok
[18:55:35] <fenn> wb SWPLinux
[18:55:42] <SWPLinux> hiya fenn
[19:02:57] <XXCoder> hey
[19:12:04] <PetefromTn_> man I swear this couch has some sort of magical suction holding my ass down on it today. I can't seem to get out in the shop to do much of anything LOL
[19:13:51] <Tom_itx> after raking the yard, i'm kinda with ya there
[19:15:13] <ssi> I have days like that
[19:15:17] <ssi> fortunately lately I haven't been
[19:15:20] <ssi> I've been coding my ass off
[19:15:22] <ssi> in the hangar
[19:15:28] <ssi> sitting on a stool, wishing I had a real chair
[19:15:33] <ssi> my ass is literally getting coded off :(
[19:15:37] <Tom_itx> ssi, how's the sserial code coming?
[19:15:42] <ssi> it's getting there
[19:15:54] <PetefromTn_> all the money you spend on Schtuff and you can't bring yourself to buy a nice shop chair? ;)
[19:15:56] <ssi> I'm hunting down bugs in the way we pack/unpack and scale signed vals
[19:16:04] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm working at a 30" bench, so a regular chair won't work
[19:16:12] <ssi> I need like a high office chair
[19:16:16] <ssi> or a proper low bench to code at :)
[19:16:37] <ssi> coding in the shop isn't ideal, but this is where all the servo electronics are set up
[19:18:45] <PetefromTn_> I got parts to make but my eye is still bothering me and I feel kinda crappy so I am here watching Alexander on netflix and hoping tomorrow my eye feels fully healed and I can get on with it.
[19:22:01] <zeeshan> whats wrong with eye
[19:23:11] <PetefromTn_> got some cast iron grinding swarf in it accidentally yesterday at Addicted blowing out the ports with compressed air
[19:23:58] <malcom2073> You should get that looked at, buddy of mine had that happen, it rusted and got really gross
[19:24:07] <Tom_itx> yeah make sure you got it out
[19:24:26] <Tom_itx> it can feel like it's still there if you scratched it
[19:24:33] <PetefromTn_> I'm pretty sure it's out but it usually takes a day or three to fully heal
[19:25:55] <zeeshan> doh
[19:26:19] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, what have you gotten done with your lathe?
[19:27:11] <zeeshan> 0
[19:28:02] <Tom_itx> got the hydraulics figured out yet?
[19:28:15] <zeeshan> 0
[19:28:57] <ssi> Tom_itx: are you just going around asking everyone the status of their projects?
[19:29:07] <ssi> heads up everyone, looks like we have a damn project manager in our midst ;)
[19:29:15] <ssi> if he asks us to scrum, I vote mutiny
[19:29:29] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:29:44] <PetefromTn_> MUTINY!!!!
[19:29:48] <Tom_itx> well i don't have anything to work on so i ask
[19:29:52] <ssi> :D
[19:29:58] <ssi> get a job, hippie!
[19:30:05] <Tom_itx> i got a full time job
[19:30:11] <PetefromTn_> RAGE INTO THE NIGHT!!!!!
[19:30:15] <Tom_itx> no time to play with the fun stuff
[19:30:23] <PetefromTn_> sorry I got carried away ;)
[19:32:05] <Tom_itx> back to silence
[19:32:09] <ssi> heheh
[19:32:09] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: eye wash
[19:34:00] <malcom2073> ssi: I'll hand out the pitchforks and torches
[19:34:05] <ssi> sweeeeet
[19:34:10] <CaptHindsight> how many cubic feet of iron are in a typical cnc lathe with 12" swing and 40" centers?
[19:34:30] <ssi> CaptHindsight: dunk one in a bathtub and use archimedes' principle to figure it out :D
[19:34:32] <malcom2073> ssi: Have you met Joe Justice?
[19:34:37] <malcom2073> the scrum inc guy
[19:35:00] <CaptHindsight> ssi: do you gave a tub big enough that I can borrow?
[19:35:16] <ssi> malcom2073: I know there was a guy named joe that came around and gave mandatory scrum training
[19:35:17] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: About 1000lbs worth?
[19:35:19] <ssi> might have been him
[19:35:20] <ssi> but I skipped those :)
[19:35:24] <malcom2073> ssi: Did he say "Awesome" a lot?
[19:35:29] <malcom2073> Like... a LOT
[19:35:32] <ssi> dunno
[19:35:35] <malcom2073> heh
[19:35:55] <ssi> yea I think that was him
[19:35:58] <ssi> found a pic
[19:36:03] <malcom2073> Heh
[19:36:12] <malcom2073> I worked with him for a weekend on his wikispeed project last year
[19:36:14] <malcom2073> He's uh....
[19:36:19] <malcom2073> Excited.
[19:36:22] <ssi> :D
[19:36:32] <ssi> it's good to be passionate I guess?
[19:36:36] <malcom2073> I suppose
[19:36:40] <ssi> although he could have picked something less terrible to be passionate about :D
[19:36:44] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:36:46] <CaptHindsight> Cast iron 6800 - 7800 Density (kg/m3) but I need lbs/ft^3 :)
[19:36:46] * ssi is not a big fan of agile
[19:36:48] <malcom2073> He's passionate about everything
[19:37:05] <malcom2073> I told him we should go get burgers for lunch, and he said "Dude that's AWESOME!" and high fived everyone
[19:37:13] <ssi> CaptHindsight: if only there were a hyper intelligent search engine that you could just ask for that answer
[19:37:23] <ssi> malcom2073: ahahaha
[19:37:27] <CaptHindsight> or some sort of converter
[19:38:06] <ssi> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=convert+7800+kg%2Fm3+to+lb%2Fft3
[19:38:15] <ssi> google is surpristingly smart about that shit
[19:38:21] <CaptHindsight> nah too much gobbtygook
[19:38:29] <ssi> um
[19:38:31] <ssi> 487
[19:38:33] <ssi> is the answer
[19:38:45] <ssi> I know clicking a link is tough
[19:39:01] <malcom2073> So... 2.5 cubic feetish
[19:39:20] <malcom2073> At least, that's what in my 12x36
[19:39:31] <malcom2073> Assume a 40 would have a bit more, so there's the weight of the motor/spindle
[19:40:43] <CaptHindsight> and cnc lathe that size is 5-8x that weight
[19:40:48] <Crom> ARGH#*&$()#&)_*(#$#^$)_#($*+#($*#$%#*($
[19:41:00] <Tom_itx> that good?
[19:41:03] <malcom2073> Well yeah, mine is a lightweight gap bed
[19:41:25] <Crom> the 3040 is SOOOO flexy.. 0.030 any whichway!
[19:41:33] <malcom2073> Well.... yeah
[19:41:33] <malcom2073> heh
[19:41:38] <malcom2073> It is made of aluminum
[19:41:42] <ssi> you expected what exactly?
[19:41:52] <ssi> my buddy dennis is just getting into machine stuff
[19:42:01] <Crom> the Reprap is setup for 3mm, and it handles it badly..., the K40 laser cutter IS WORKING! YEAH!
[19:42:02] <ssi> he started with reprap, then he built a shapeoko engraver
[19:42:10] <ssi> and he was talking to me about 3040 type machines the other day
[19:42:12] <ssi> called it a mill
[19:42:18] <ssi> I said "it's not a mill, it's a router"
[19:42:23] <ssi> "but they call it a mill on the website!"
[19:42:30] <PetefromTn_> jeez man is it me or do all the movies on netflix and at redbox suck azz lately?
[19:42:31] <ssi> "... it's not a mill, it's a router"
[19:42:35] <Crom> it's not a router, it's a cheap engraver
[19:42:43] <ssi> yeah that's probably more accurate :P
[19:42:51] <ssi> it's definitely not a mill :)
[19:42:54] <malcom2073> Eh, the runout on the spindles make it not an engraver either
[19:42:57] <CaptHindsight> 0.030 thats nothing, I had one that had 0.125" lash out of the box
[19:42:59] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, speaking of... saw 007 last night
[19:43:15] <PetefromTn_> the new one?
[19:43:18] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:43:23] <Tom_itx> true bond form
[19:43:24] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: how was it?
[19:43:28] <PetefromTn_> I like craig
[19:43:39] <Tom_itx> i like bond so i'm gonna say it was good
[19:43:42] <CaptHindsight> he looks like a plumber to me
[19:43:51] <Tom_itx> first time in imax for me though so it was pretty awesome
[19:43:53] <PetefromTn_> ?
[19:43:54] <CaptHindsight> "ok I am here to fix toilet"
[19:44:09] <Tom_itx> yeah he has that look...
[19:44:10] <ssi> meine dispatcher said there is something wrong with deine cable?
[19:44:27] <PetefromTn_> to me he looks a lot more like a real agent might look instead of a pretty boy
[19:44:37] <Tom_itx> seems the first ones he wasn't much of a lady's man
[19:44:40] <Tom_itx> that changed
[19:44:43] <Crom> went thru 3 melzi boards on the reprap, then said screw it and stuck a mega2560 and ramps 1.4 in it.. with the 20x4 lcd, and on the K40 laser also stuck a mega2560/ramps 1.4 with graffic lcd
[19:44:58] <malcom2073> yeah the melzi baords are crap
[19:45:08] <malcom2073> ramps is crap too, but at least they don't fry randomly
[19:45:11] <PetefromTn_> so it was good then?
[19:45:22] <Tom_itx> yeah i though so
[19:45:53] <Tom_itx> the intro is in true bond form
[19:46:31] <CaptHindsight> what's a theater ticket cost in Kansas?
[19:46:32] <PetefromTn_> like I said I like Daniel Craig as Bond, I like them all but he seems to be more genuine somehow
[19:46:35] <Crom> malcom2073, true.. already fried 2 A4988 drivers, but it's easy to swap them out
[19:46:44] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, afternoon imax was 10
[19:46:47] <malcom2073> Flaky wiring?
[19:46:51] <Tom_itx> 13 regular iirc
[19:46:57] <malcom2073> That'll fry them pretty quick
[19:47:00] <Crom> helper stuck them in backwards
[19:47:01] <Tom_itx> 7 & 10 for normal seats
[19:47:03] <PetefromTn_> man its crazy how they have gone up
[19:47:16] <malcom2073> Heh
[19:47:17] <malcom2073> that'll do it too
[19:47:24] <Tom_itx> we don't go that often
[19:47:25] <PetefromTn_> movies and some popcorn and candy and you are in for over $70
[19:47:41] <Tom_itx> oh don't forget dinner before/after tooo
[19:47:43] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ-oafGPkqg
[19:47:55] <ssi> internet dropped, now my hilarious link is out of context :(
[19:48:21] <zeeshan> rofl
[19:48:25] <PetefromTn_> the dude!
[19:48:50] <CaptHindsight> just checked for Specter at 10pm tonight IMAX is $20
[19:49:03] <zeeshan> wait
[19:49:13] <zeeshan> was that jeff bridges in the big lebowski ????
[19:49:24] <CaptHindsight> yup
[19:49:25] <ssi> duh
[19:49:27] <zeeshan> wow
[19:49:29] <zeeshan> he's AGed
[19:49:35] <CaptHindsight> yup
[19:49:42] <PetefromTn_> I need to fix the damn cable LOL
[19:49:43] <ssi> yea go back and watch the first tron :P
[19:49:47] <zeeshan> i didnt even recognize that it was him in ripd
[19:49:48] <zeeshan> and iron man
[19:49:50] <zeeshan> and tron
[19:49:51] <zeeshan> lol
[19:50:03] <ssi> or white squall :)
[19:50:32] <zeeshan> shit how did he go from 1998 looking like the big lebowski
[19:50:36] <zeeshan> to jeff bridges in tron!
[19:50:42] <ssi> um, seventeen years
[19:50:42] <zeeshan> completely different looking
[19:50:51] <ssi> fifteen maybe
[19:50:54] <ssi> when did tron come out?
[19:51:05] <ssi> 2010 really? jesus where has my life gone
[19:51:10] <malcom2073> 1982
[19:51:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2iGhDylhAA check him out in '74 Thunderbolt and Lightfoot
[19:51:40] <ssi> I very much like jeff bridgen
[19:51:43] <ssi> s/en/es/
[19:51:45] <zeeshan> gay!
[19:51:48] <CaptHindsight> and Eastwood before he went crazy
[19:52:12] <ssi> CaptHindsight: dang
[19:52:16] <zeeshan> wow
[19:52:17] <zeeshan> lol
[19:52:26] <ssi> it's like "boy with the man voice"
[19:52:27] <ssi> haha
[19:55:19] <zeeshan> i really hate stainless
[19:55:20] <zeeshan> a lot..
[19:55:23] <zeeshan> (random)
[19:55:28] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, it's worth seeing in imax but i dunno about $20
[19:55:32] <XXCoder> zeeshan: yeah hate it too
[19:55:43] <zeeshan> i went thru 6 carbide engraving bits
[19:55:45] <zeeshan> to engrave it..
[19:55:51] <zeeshan> 40 of those pieces
[19:55:52] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: only $18 for the Sunday matinee :)
[19:56:11] <Tom_itx> where are you?
[19:57:29] <CaptHindsight> Chicago
[19:57:30] <zeeshan> im right here silly
[19:57:39] <XXCoder> I'm behind you
[19:57:42] <ssi> zeeshan: when are you coming to visit?!
[19:57:44] <PetefromTn_> you can keep Chicago
[19:57:51] <zeeshan> hey project manager, can you tell my the deadline to finish my lathe?
[19:58:04] <zeeshan> i work man :"(
[19:58:06] <zeeshan> no vacation
[19:58:09] <ssi> booooo
[19:58:15] <ssi> yesterday was day 1 of my 22 day weekend :D
[19:58:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, get off your arse and git r dun
[19:58:23] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:58:30] <zeeshan> i think the project manager name suits tom
[19:58:35] <ssi> agreed
[19:59:21] <Tom_itx> if i had one to build you wouldn't see me for a while
[20:00:27] <malcom2073> ssi: I won one of the kurt vises
[20:00:55] <ssi> nice :D
[20:01:01] <malcom2073> My dad got one too
[20:01:09] <malcom2073> Mine looks real nice on the machine :)
[20:01:43] <ssi> what size
[20:01:47] <zeeshan> if you got 40 of some stainless parts
[20:01:54] <ssi> D60?
[20:01:55] <zeeshan> that you wanna countersink on the drrill press
[20:02:00] <zeeshan> but theylre only 1" by 1"
[20:02:00] <malcom2073> 6"
[20:02:02] <zeeshan> how do you hold em
[20:02:03] <malcom2073> yeah D 60
[20:02:07] <zeeshan> without cutting your finger
[20:02:22] <ssi> zeeshan: make a fixture plate that they drop into that keeps them from spinning
[20:02:29] <zeeshan> a lotta work
[20:02:29] <zeeshan> :P
[20:02:35] <ssi> wear gloves
[20:02:37] <zeeshan> haha
[20:02:43] <malcom2073> zeeshan: clamp them in a vise
[20:02:45] <ssi> clamp a fence on the table
[20:02:49] <zeeshan> malcom2073: too much work
[20:02:52] <ssi> but then alignment suffers somewhat
[20:02:55] <zeeshan> i think ill do what ssi said
[20:02:56] <malcom2073> So is getting your finger replaced
[20:02:57] <zeeshan> make a small fixture plate
[20:03:01] <zeeshan> i got the program for it already
[20:03:04] <XXCoder> just do it in hand
[20:03:11] <zeeshan> i did one in hand
[20:03:11] <XXCoder> with drill press
[20:03:14] <zeeshan> but it was pretty sketchy
[20:03:25] <XXCoder> it is when parts is small
[20:03:26] <zeeshan> you know when you can anticipate youre about to slice your hand open?
[20:03:30] <zeeshan> i get that feeling when i do it
[20:03:33] <zeeshan> cause iknow itll spin out
[20:03:35] <ssi> heheh
[20:03:41] <malcom2073> Grip it harder
[20:03:47] <malcom2073> Like Bull
[20:03:48] <ssi> the worst is that eternity between when you slice yourself open and when it starts to bleed
[20:03:48] <XXCoder> make a hand thing that clamos on part
[20:03:51] <zeeshan> someone can you please make me a robotic arm
[20:03:54] <zeeshan> so i can do dumb shit like this
[20:03:59] <zeeshan> without taking my own arm out
[20:03:59] <ssi> it doesn't hurt yet, you just look at it going "oh hell, this is going to suck"
[20:04:03] <XXCoder> use the ring clamp and wood rod something
[20:04:05] <zeeshan> hey, maybe i will build one
[20:04:07] <XXCoder> im sure you can figure
[20:04:08] <zeeshan> i think this is a good idea
[20:04:13] <zeeshan> an assistant hand
[20:04:15] <ssi> the other one that sucks is when you weld a bunch of aluminum
[20:04:17] <zeeshan> for the drill press!
[20:04:21] <ssi> then you wait a minute and then pick it up barehanded
[20:04:24] <zeeshan> haha
[20:04:27] <ssi> and it falls out of your hands like it's sippery
[20:04:31] <ssi> which is just your flesh melting off
[20:04:32] <zeeshan> dude my assistant hand would work for that too !
[20:04:33] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, you didn't like my idea on that part?
[20:04:43] <ssi> the first indication you've done something wrong is all of a sudden your skin feels tight
[20:04:44] <zeeshan> which idea
[20:04:44] <Tom_itx> mill it all from the countersink side?
[20:04:48] <ssi> then you get that "uh oh" feeling :)
[20:05:00] <malcom2073> I hate that "How much am I going to regret this tomorrow" feeling
[20:05:00] <zeeshan> i cant Tom_itx
[20:05:04] <Tom_itx> use an undercut mill for the bottom part
[20:05:04] <ssi> osha loves me
[20:05:15] <Tom_itx> you could
[20:05:28] <zeeshan> seriously though
[20:05:33] <Tom_itx> i was
[20:05:33] <zeeshan> think an assistant hand would be a good tool? :D
[20:05:37] <ssi> haha no
[20:05:39] <zeeshan> cmon
[20:05:40] <ssi> it'd be too hard to use
[20:05:42] <malcom2073> Get a vise
[20:05:45] <malcom2073> stick it on a robotic arm
[20:05:45] <malcom2073> boom
[20:05:45] <zeeshan> what if i make it very friendly
[20:05:47] <malcom2073> assistant hand
[20:05:55] <XXCoder> zeeshan: not too friendly lol
[20:05:56] <zeeshan> iwill dedicate time and effort
[20:06:05] <zeeshan> you can even use it to replace a woman
[20:06:10] <XXCoder> seriously make a hand part holder. not robot arm whatever
[20:06:12] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, cut a pocket for the part to fit in and one of those rubber tipped clamps
[20:06:13] <ssi> zeeshan: now you have my attention ;)
[20:06:27] <malcom2073> We got one of these at work:
http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/baxter/
[20:06:29] <Tom_itx> hand clamps
[20:06:40] <zeeshan> see !
[20:06:41] <malcom2073> You grab its hand, show it how to do what you want it to do, and then click" go" and it does it
[20:06:42] <zeeshan> assistant hand!!!!!!11
[20:06:58] <zeeshan> that lcd screen with eyes is a bit freaky though
[20:06:59] <zeeshan> wtf
[20:07:14] <malcom2073> Yep
[20:07:27] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: wont need a clamp
[20:07:34] <zeeshan> cause counter sink wont really pull it up
[20:07:37] <XXCoder> those machnes will replace us
[20:07:44] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Maybe you.....
[20:07:46] <malcom2073> :P
[20:08:05] <malcom2073> As a robotics technician, I'm all for replacing simple jobs with robots, means more jobs for me
[20:08:16] <XXCoder> lol
[20:08:21] <zeeshan> i thought you were a programmer
[20:08:23] <zeeshan> !
[20:08:27] <ssi> malcom2073: agreed
[20:08:31] <malcom2073> I wear many hats
[20:08:36] <malcom2073> Depending on how much people want to pay me
[20:08:39] <ssi> my argument about the minimum wage crap people have been clamoring for
[20:08:41] <XXCoder> makes it hard to enter buildings
[20:08:43] <malcom2073> That job doesn't pay much, so I'm a robotics tech
[20:08:44] <XXCoder> but otherwise cool
[20:08:49] <ssi> forget $15/hr minimum wage, let's go straight for $150/hr
[20:08:58] <ssi> I'll get it
[20:09:06] <ssi> they'll pay me to automate everyone else out of a job :)
[20:09:10] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I just duck
[20:09:14] <XXCoder> lol
[20:09:17] <CaptHindsight> meat robots
[20:09:18] <ssi> I want to start "Ian's Discount Robot Emporium"
[20:09:25] <ssi> "(for all your $15/hr minimum wage needs)"
[20:09:37] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: once a while I do feel like a meat robot at work lol
[20:09:41] <malcom2073> ssi: Burger makers, and automated oil change robots
[20:09:42] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, cut a U in one end of the pocket so you can easily get them out
[20:09:56] <ssi> malcom2073: yep, all these things are feasible
[20:10:10] <zeeshan> yes
[20:10:11] <ssi> whether or not they're cost-practical depends on the cost of the labor you're trying to replace :)
[20:10:23] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, like i did here:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Stencils/stencil_form1.jpg
[20:10:25] <malcom2073> Higher the minimum labor rate, the more cost-practical it becomes
[20:10:29] <ssi> exactly
[20:10:33] <CaptHindsight> DMV counter person
[20:10:43] <ssi> CaptHindsight: those jobs will never go away at any price
[20:10:50] <ssi> the government doesn't obey supply/demand curve
[20:10:53] <CaptHindsight> Comcast phone sales and tech support
[20:11:00] <ssi> they've already automated a lot of that
[20:11:02] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, for stenciling these:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Stencils/stencil_form3.jpg
[20:11:15] <ssi> they have remarkably convincing sounding customer service voice AI now
[20:11:20] <ssi> sometimes it's hard to tell when you're talking to a human or not
[20:11:21] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: if they did that there would be easy to bypass. just replace tailpipe with fake one that just blows air n(assuming older car)
[20:11:28] <ssi> we were talking about that at work the other day
[20:11:31] <XXCoder> human would notice. robot wont.
[20:11:48] <ssi> surefire robot test: when they start talking and tell you their name
[20:11:49] <XXCoder> just pipe tiny amount from real pipeline so it has small amount of polluants
[20:11:54] <ssi> interrupt them by saying their name loudly
[20:12:00] <ssi> a robot won't notice, a human will geht startled
[20:12:21] * malcom2073 makes a note to have his robots startled at such an occurance
[20:12:27] <ssi> malcom2073: ;)
[20:12:43] <ssi> keep coming up with smarter robots, I'll keep finding better turing tests :)
[20:12:53] <ssi> they call me 'edge case boy' at work
[20:13:21] <malcom2073> That's ok, fortunatly, the majority of the population are idiots
[20:13:31] <malcom2073> So you really don't have to cater to the edge case
[20:13:40] <malcom2073> just let them wallow in self-realized pity
[20:13:42] <ssi> that's the absolute truth
[20:13:54] <ssi> Tom_pmp
[20:14:22] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: nice
[20:14:23] <malcom2073> Someone mentioned comcast, I hear they're going to start charging for high data usage
[20:15:10] <CaptHindsight> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/15/11/06/1636214/comcast-expanding-data-cap-locations-training-reps-to-avoid-subject
[20:15:11] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, easy to remove and repeatable
[20:16:33] <Tom_itx> overcut the corners too so you don't have rounded corners
[20:16:46] <Tom_itx> you can see that in the pic too
[20:17:45] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I have been without the ability to have comcast for the last year
[20:17:59] <ssi> I mostly would rather pay for their miserable customer service and data caps than what I have now
[20:18:04] <ssi> but it's a tough call :)
[20:19:35] <malcom2073> +1 to that
[20:19:44] <malcom2073> but I don't feel like paying $30k for them to run a line to me
[20:19:44] <malcom2073> heh
[20:19:53] <ssi> yeah that's the boat I'm in too
[20:20:11] <malcom2073> I'm 1 mile too far
[20:20:18] <ssi> I'm at an airport
[20:20:21] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:20:25] <malcom2073> you live in that hanger, don't you?
[20:20:28] <ssi> there's cable at the condos at the racetrack across the street
[20:20:34] <ssi> no, I live in a different hangar
[20:20:41] <malcom2073> lol
[20:21:37] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTQQtHTUsAQ1T-l.jpg:large
[20:21:41] <ssi> I live in that hangar
[20:21:46] <CaptHindsight> ssi: offer to pay the internet cost per month for one of the condos and run wifi with a beam antenna
[20:21:48] <malcom2073> lol why?
[20:21:56] <ssi> malcom2073: why?
[20:21:58] <Jymmm> ssi: Isn't that the local whore house?
[20:22:10] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I've thought about that, I don't know anyone who lives there
[20:22:13] <ssi> they're deserted most of the time
[20:22:14] <malcom2073> Yeah, seems like an odd place to live
[20:22:15] <CEO2015> fancy house heh
[20:22:27] <ssi> Jymmm: god I wish
[20:22:41] <Tom_itx> ssi, quiet neighborhood?
[20:22:46] <ssi> Tom_itx: very
[20:22:51] <Jymmm> ssi: Well, stop wearing the same ripped pair of fishnets and it just might be!
[20:22:53] <CEO2015> ssi: whats up with your house lately?
[20:22:54] <ssi> I mean besides the fact that it's an airport
[20:23:11] <ssi> CEO2015: it's nearly done but I'm not moving back there
[20:23:33] <malcom2073> ohhhh yeah that's right, you had a fire didn't you?
[20:23:34] <ssi> Jymmm: I'm pretty sure the reason nobody pays me for sex is unrelated to my wardrobe
[20:23:37] <ssi> yes
[20:24:38] <CaptHindsight> lol, and on that note.......
[20:27:40] <Jymmm> ssi: Um, I think you misunderstand... you pay THEM!
[20:27:50] <ssi> then why am I wearing fishnets?
[20:27:54] <CEO2015> ssi: oh selling it or rent out?
[20:27:58] <ssi> prolly rent
[20:28:11] <XXCoder> nice, extra money for budget
[20:28:32] <ssi> not exactly, I still have to pay for a place to live
[20:29:08] <Jymmm> ssi: Cause you are FUGLY, and no amoutn of money will change that, so you need to look PRETTY, OH SO PRETTY!
[20:29:23] <ssi> oh ok
[20:29:25] <ssi> now I understand
[20:29:29] <Jymmm> ;)
[20:29:38] <Jymmm> or open a bind whorehouse
[20:29:41] <Jymmm> blind*
[20:29:56] <Jymmm> You know like that restraunt you eat in the dark
[20:31:07] <Jymmm> ssi:
http://www.darkdining.com/index_main.php
[20:33:15] <ssi> blind whorehouse is too much like a glory hole :P
[20:34:00] <XXCoder> new type: room with LONG rows of restrooms with holes in walls :P
[20:34:18] <XXCoder> maybe yours will hit it off and make lots mollah for you :P
[20:34:24] <ssi> I'll pass
[20:34:37] <ssi> haha a friend of mine came up with an idea
[20:34:44] <ssi> you familiar with the fitbit
[20:34:48] <ssi> and other pedometer type devices
[20:34:53] <XXCoder> yeah
[20:34:55] <ssi> build one of those into a cockring
[20:34:57] <ssi> gamification of sex
[20:35:00] <XXCoder> cock version already exists
[20:35:02] <XXCoder> too late
[20:35:05] <ssi> ololololol
[20:35:19] <XXCoder> the worse things for sale site rocks
[20:36:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272030645852?_trksid=p2046732.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI272030645852.N36.S1.R1.TR5 ah - kits
[20:48:56] <malcom2073> Jymmm: That website frontpage alone tells me I can't afford that restaurant
[20:49:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I can't afford to even look at the website
[20:49:28] <malcom2073> Jymmm: That's doubly unfortunate
[20:49:31] <malcom2073> Not much to look at
[20:49:34] <malcom2073> "less is more" and all
[20:50:50] <malcom2073> I need to get my auto-oiler working
[20:51:08] <malcom2073> There are no manual oiling holes, so it's not getting oil atm
[20:52:26] <Jymmm> malcom2073: There is only one place I would consider like that
[20:52:34] <jesseg> Howdy Folks. Is feedrate (F) integer or real?
[20:52:40] <ssi> real
[20:52:53] <jesseg> What about spindle RPM?
[20:52:57] <ssi> real
[20:53:02] <ssi> everythin's real except boolean pins pretty much
[20:53:04] <jesseg> sweeet. Thanks!
[20:53:06] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You are only given two cards, no menu, you choose one of the cards.
[20:53:41] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Last I heard, it's a 3yr waiting list
[20:53:53] <malcom2073> huh
[20:53:56] <malcom2073> Weirdos
[20:54:03] <Jymmm> malcom2073: LOL
[20:54:16] <Jymmm> malcom2073: This is like a 6 hour meal
[20:54:22] <malcom2073> If I wanted to not choose what I'm gonna eat, I'd eat my wifes cooking
[20:54:34] <malcom2073> When I go out, I want a damn menu :P
[20:54:38] <Jymmm> malcom2073: poor bastard
[20:54:43] <malcom2073> Nah she's an excellent cook
[20:55:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Go eat your early bird secial ay old bastard!
[21:27:24] <ssi> dohhh
[21:27:36] <ssi> so I have a set of bondhus t-handles, and I love them
[21:27:46] <ssi> I Had a metric set and a standard set, but the metric ones didn't survive the fire
[21:27:53] <_methods> wiha
[21:27:56] <ssi> plus I am missing one out of the standard set, 5/32
[21:28:10] <ssi> rather than replace the set, I discovered I could buy a single wrench off ebay, so I did
[21:28:23] <_methods> get wiha's
[21:28:24] <ssi> but I neglected to note whether it was long/short, or ball end or not
[21:28:32] <malcom2073> Heh oops
[21:28:38] <ssi> my set is long ball end, and the one I bought to replace it is short non-ball :(
[21:28:50] <malcom2073> Could not have gone more wrong eh?
[21:28:56] <ssi> seriously
[21:28:59] <ssi> it's the right size at least :)
[21:29:04] <malcom2073> heh
[21:29:06] <malcom2073> small favors
[21:29:12] <ssi> holy cow the wiha ones are pricey
[21:29:23] <_methods> they're awesome
[21:29:28] <_methods> no other wrenches compare
[21:29:31] <_methods> worth every penny
[21:29:32] <ssi> they better be for $75!
[21:30:01] <ssi> oh here's the current state of my snapon madness
[21:30:01] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTQgXj2WEAAHzxz.jpg:large
[21:30:03] <malcom2073> We have a set of them at work, they're nice
[21:30:35] <_methods> all the wiha tools are nice
[21:30:46] <_methods> spendy but worth it
[21:30:52] <ssi> yeah I have wiha screwdrivers and they're awesome
[21:31:12] <ssi> although I mindlessly used one of my wiha flat blade screwdrivers to stir some molten aluminum :(
[21:31:20] <_methods> doh
[21:31:20] <ssi> tried to use it later and the tip just twisted like caramel
[21:31:55] <ssi> it's funny, you don't even think about the hardness of tools til you get one that's not hardened
[21:32:06] <_methods> lol
[21:32:10] <ssi> I have some harbor freight pin punches that look pretty nice, but if you try to use them they just bend
[21:32:14] <_methods> fisher price screwdriver
[21:32:57] <ssi> the black area in that toolbox drawer is part of that wrench tray, has spots for allen wrenches and I have them laid out in there
[21:33:02] <ssi> it's kinda dumb and inefficient
[21:33:14] <ssi> I think I'm gonna put them back in their plastic holders and just cut the bottom off that tray
[21:33:24] <ssi> tehn I can move the wrenches to the front of the drawer and put 3/8 drive stuff at the back
[21:34:17] <ssi> I need to order a CDI 3/8" 250in/lb torque wrench too
[21:34:52] <_methods> i grabbed one from harbor fright
[21:35:02] <_methods> and its actually not a bad torque wrench
[21:35:09] <ssi> nah they're not bad, I've used them
[21:35:13] <ssi> but I LOVE the cdi ones
[21:35:19] <_methods> yeah
[21:35:20] <ssi> and the're calibrated, which I need them to be sometimes :/
[21:35:27] <_methods> oh believe me id rather have the cdi
[21:35:38] <ssi> the cdi is $125 amazon prime
[21:35:39] <_methods> but my wallet went to bottom of the harbor
[21:35:39] <ssi> worth it
[21:35:56] <ssi> I can't justify a damn snapon techangle torque wrench at $550
[21:35:58] <ssi> but I can do #125
[21:36:07] <_methods> cdi makes theirs dont they?
[21:36:09] <ssi> yes
[21:37:11] <PetefromTn_> ssi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWcUiBMD90
[21:37:12] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LLTDJLG?keywords=cdi%20torque%20wrench&qid=1446952403&ref_=sr_1_3&refinements=p_89%3ACDI%20Torque&sr=8-3
[21:37:15] <ssi> my mistake, it's $137
[21:37:26] <ssi> for the 30-250in-lb one
[21:37:30] <_methods> wera makes really good wrenches and stuff too
[21:37:51] <ssi> PetefromTn_: looks sufficiently french :)
[21:38:14] <ssi> oh I've seen this thing
[21:38:20] <ssi> human launch
[21:38:54] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WERA-Kraftform-Kompakt-41-Pouch-with-89-mm-bits-05059299001-11-piece-set-New-/151480149241?hash=item2344eba4f9:g:~i0AAOSwn51UahHa
[21:39:04] <_methods> i have that screwdriver kit and use the hell out of it
[21:39:43] <PetefromTn_> Watchin' BladeRunner....kickass ;)
[21:39:59] <PetefromTn_> probably french tho
[21:40:08] <PetefromTn_> but sure looks cool
[21:40:15] <ssi> it'd be fun
[21:40:20] <ssi> I'm too fat to fly something like that :)
[21:40:27] <PetefromTn_> really?
[21:40:37] <ssi> probably
[21:40:38] <PetefromTn_> I wonder what the weight limits are
[21:40:45] <ssi> maybe not a weight limit issue so much
[21:40:55] <ssi> but performance is very much a factor of weight in something like that
[21:41:04] <ssi> and they're light enough that pilot weight is a significant portion
[21:41:23] <ssi> being 50lb overweight in a 1500lb airplane is bad, being 50lb overweight in a 150lb airplane is disastrous
[21:41:30] <PetefromTn_> they launch it from feet, from behind another plane, from a car tow etc...
[21:42:07] <PetefromTn_> ya gotta admit there is something beautiful about unpowered flight tho
[21:42:13] <ssi> oh absolutely
[21:42:16] <ssi> I'd liek to get my glider ticket
[21:42:28] <ssi> I just doubt I'll be doing any human-powered self launches :)
[21:42:42] <PetefromTn_> I would LOVE to try that
[21:42:53] <ssi> have you ever done a glider ride?
[21:42:58] <PetefromTn_> no
[21:42:59] <ssi> you can get rides in 2 seat gliders pretty cheap
[21:43:09] <PetefromTn_> been in quite a few planes and an ultralight
[21:43:24] <PetefromTn_> never a glider
[21:43:35] <PetefromTn_> I know there is a gliderport down south of here a bit
[21:43:43] <ssi> god my ADD is bad tonight
[21:43:49] <ssi> what was I working on? :P
[21:43:57] <PetefromTn_> gliders?
[21:44:40] <ssi> lol I don't think so
[21:44:49] <ssi> their little trailer system is interesting
[21:45:02] <ssi> with the tracks that everything slides into
[21:47:26] <PetefromTn_> I know I like how you just pop your legs up and you are enclosed like that.
[21:48:18] <ssi> you just like it cause you always liked the flinstones' car :)
[21:49:04] <PetefromTn_> I like it because it is beautifully simple unpowered flight
[21:49:13] <PetefromTn_> and I LOVE the Flintstones!!
[21:49:17] <_methods> i gotta get a box of countersinks next auction
[21:49:33] <_methods> i have like 1 90 deg csink
[21:49:33] <PetefromTn_> Did you get me a fourth axis yet? ;)
[21:49:57] <ssi> go find your own!
[21:49:58] <_methods> man i got so disgusted i shut off the last auction
[21:50:07] <_methods> right before the 2 4th axis
[21:50:20] <_methods> they had a small 5c 4th axis
[21:50:25] <_methods> and an hrt-310
[21:50:40] <_methods> i got burned on the 2 tm-1's
[21:50:50] <PetefromTn_> Why should I go find my own when my old buddy old pal methods offered to find me one damnit!!
[21:50:51] <_methods> guy bought both of them for $8750
[21:51:03] <_methods> so i don't get my mill
[21:51:15] <_methods> boss was going to give me the shops eztrak
[21:51:16] <ssi> suuuuck
[21:51:24] <_methods> if we got one of the tm-1's
[21:51:49] <PetefromTn_> ssi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJV4vcuKww4
[21:51:50] <ssi> PetefromTn_: might be worth trying one of the cheap chinese fourths off ebay
[21:52:21] <ssi> yeah I've sat in that pipistrel motorglider before
[21:53:00] <_methods> i saw burt rutan made some new water plane
[21:53:02] <PetefromTn_> looks like a comfy coach inside
[21:53:04] <_methods> thing looks cool
[21:53:31] <PetefromTn_> like a side by side tandem recumbent bike with wings ;)
[21:53:32] <ssi> the skigull?
[21:53:57] <_methods> not sure
[21:53:59] <_methods> maybe?
[21:54:08] <ssi> http://generalaviationnews.com/2015/04/21/burt-rutans-latest-project-the-skigull/
[21:54:20] <_methods> yeah
[21:54:26] <_methods> that's it
[21:54:28] <ssi> I like burt rutan a LOT better than dick
[21:54:33] <ssi> dick rutan lives up to his name
[21:54:53] <PetefromTn_> I'd like to shave those damn sideburns tho
[21:55:10] <_methods> http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/6/9681784/burt-rutan-skigull-first-test
[21:57:09] <ssi> "It's also saltwater-resistant, which is nice for when you've got the bird parked off the coast of the Big Island."
[21:57:12] <ssi> cause it's composite
[21:57:15] <ssi> like everything rutan
[21:57:28] <ssi> aluminum seaplanes have a lifespan timer that starts ticking the first time you put them in the water
[21:57:32] <ssi> and it's about 10 years
[21:57:36] <ssi> in saltwater that is
[21:58:04] <jesseg> If I have a tilt table, is it named A?
[21:58:15] <ssi> A is rotation about X, so it depends :)
[21:58:50] <jesseg> Ahh. What if it's a tilting rotary table?
[21:59:01] <ssi> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XMcoJMBTDIQ/hqdefault.jpg
[21:59:04] <ssi> a trunnion table like that?
[21:59:11] <ssi> if it's parallel to X like that, then it's an A
[21:59:18] <ssi> if it's perpendxicular to X, it's a B
[21:59:47] <jesseg> that's some picture. I honestly can't tell if it's a 2 axis device or not :P
[21:59:52] <ssi> that's not
[22:00:01] <ssi> http://www.cncindexing.com/assets/images/tilt-rotary-table-sh.jpg
[22:00:04] <ssi> you have one like that?
[22:00:07] <ssi> a 4th/5th?
[22:00:35] <ssi> so I get a little fuzzy here, but I believe the 5th is named for its rotation when the 4th is at 0 degrees
[22:00:43] <ssi> so that'd be an A and a C in that case I believe
[22:00:46] <jesseg> yeah that's what I'm asking about. I'm building one from two rotary tables that I'll put servo motors on and mount together
[22:00:56] <ssi> rotation about X is the trunnion, rotation about Z is the rotary
[22:01:21] <jesseg> Until the first axis tilts up 90 degrees :D
[22:01:37] <ssi> yeah but see I don't think that matters, it's still a C
[22:01:45] <ssi> the order that rotations are applied in kinematics is significant
[22:01:46] <_methods> that's why most people just say it's a 4th axis or 5 axis machine
[22:01:52] <jesseg> cool. Thanks!
[22:02:03] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/CatDaddy305/videos/10156019733610386/ This is funny
[22:02:12] <_methods> on lathes people get more particluar
[22:02:20] <_methods> is it a c axis lathe or a y axis lathe
[22:02:40] <_methods> but on mills youll normally just say it's a 4 axis mill
[22:02:44] <ssi> well on a lathe, to me C axis means using the spindle for accurate positioning
[22:02:44] <_methods> or 5 axis mill
[22:02:53] <jesseg> So what letter would I use if I had a 4th linear axis?
[22:02:54] <ssi> whereas Y is if you had a vertical slide
[22:03:06] <ssi> jesseg: typically U/V/W
[22:03:10] <ssi> those are parallel to X/Y/Z
[22:03:11] <R2E4_> Whats the basic concept of sending commands from same source to two different joints?
[22:03:44] <jesseg> ssi, ahh thanks! So if I had an axis for the wire feed on a CNC wire feed welder, and the wire fed in the Z axis, then I'd use W, right?
[22:04:06] <ssi> yes, although the orientation of a wire feeder in cartesian space probably isn't significant :)
[22:04:23] <jesseg> True
[22:04:28] <ssi> think more along the lines of a cnc hot wire cutter, where you might have an X/Z on one side and a U/W on the other
[22:04:50] <jesseg> Oh, got it. Actually two X axis, etc.
[22:04:55] <ssi> right
[22:05:13] <ssi> and the cutting tool is a line that extends between those two points in cartesian space separated by the Y distance
[22:05:36] <jesseg> right. I've done manual hot wire and wished for CNC so I know exactly what you're talking about :D
[22:05:46] <ssi> :)
[22:06:07] <ssi> other possibilies might be something like automating a knee mill
[22:06:13] <ssi> you may have Z for quill and W for the knee
[22:06:15] <jesseg> Oh, right.
[22:06:17] <ssi> or vice versa
[22:06:22] <jesseg> exactly
[22:06:48] <ssi> which way you set it up will probably depend on which axis you use for your primary programming
[22:07:01] <ssi> cause linuxcnc handles X/Y/Z in more sophisticated ways than it does UVW
[22:07:14] <jesseg> How is that possible...?
[22:07:26] <ssi> it's minor stuff... we were just talking about it the other day
[22:07:39] <ssi> the only one I'm aware of is the naive cam detection
[22:07:49] <ssi> code that has a lot of moves in W might be slower than code that has a lot of moves in Z
[22:08:05] <ssi> just vagaries of how the trajectory planner works :)
[22:08:14] <jesseg> It's an axis, and it controls a servo.. Why would X control one servo any differently then U controlled another identical servo..?
[22:08:29] <jesseg> oh well doesn't matter to me :D
[22:08:54] <ssi> the control aspect isn't any different, it has to do with detecting multiple segments that are colinear and converting them to one segment
[22:09:07] <jesseg> ahh
[22:09:13] <ssi> which affects how the trajectory planner handles coordinating motion, due to the need to accel and decel into and out of corners
[22:09:23] <jesseg> yeah
[22:09:55] <jesseg> accel/decel in corners makes my brain hurt to think about it :P
[22:10:13] <ssi> well just consider it like you were driving a car
[22:10:23] <ssi> you can't drive arbitrarily fast into a corner and make an instantaneous 90 degree turn
[22:10:23] <jesseg> yeah
[22:10:34] <ssi> requires infinite acceleration to do t hat
[22:11:02] <PetefromTn_> I can in my Van
[22:11:10] <jesseg> but the part that put my brain it knots was trying to figure out how to accel/decel only as much as needed considering the trajectory of the next segment :P
[22:11:16] <ssi> PetefromTn_: only because it doesn't go fast enough to violate its accel limits :)
[22:11:33] <ssi> jesseg: yeah that part gets complex
[22:11:41] <PetefromTn_> Oh she's fast enough for you alright.....what's the cargo?
[22:11:46] <ssi> insert a lot of words here about lookahead and exact path mode vs path tolerance etc
[22:12:22] <ssi> and it's not super significant for milling type work, but it's a big deal for jet cutting
[22:13:15] <jesseg> ssi, yeah for my initial experimental perl script trajectory planner I just had it come a full stop between each segment always. I think I did figure out how to do it right, and someplace I have sketches on paper but I lost that and forgot :P But yeah it involved looking ahead or something
[22:13:41] <ssi> most of this stuff seems simple til you actually try to do it :)
[22:13:46] <jesseg> LOL that's for sure.
[22:14:09] <jesseg> Does jet cutting eat too wide of a hole if you dwell too long?
[22:14:18] <ssi> depends on the process what happens
[22:14:25] <ssi> but for instance, for plasma, one of two things happens
[22:14:49] <jesseg> oh yeah plasma eats out too much and perhaps burns your consumables :P
[22:14:50] <ssi> if you have torch height control, it's trying to maintain the arc voltage, which it does by controlling the arc length via Z height
[22:15:08] <ssi> as you slow down, the voltage will increase, so the torch will dive into the material
[22:15:15] <jesseg> ahh, yeah
[22:15:37] <ssi> if you have advanced features in your thc to lock the height into corners, it works but the cut quality suffers because you're cutting with suboptimal torch height
[22:15:49] <jesseg> yeah
[22:16:09] <ssi> laser can have similar problems, when you slow down you're putting more energy into the cut
[22:16:15] <ssi> but most laser systems run pulse mode
[22:16:26] <jesseg> ahh, so they can match speed
[22:16:26] <ssi> and it's pulses per linear unit, so you get constant energy into the cut
[22:16:41] <ssi> I say most, I don't know if that's true
[22:16:49] <ssi> lots of co2 laser systems work that way, including mine
[22:16:54] <jesseg> cool
[22:17:20] <Praesmeodymium> the popular shitty blue box from china is a CW mode laser
[22:17:43] <ssi> yeah that doesn't surprise me
[22:17:45] <Praesmeodymium> needs a few upgrades for pulse mode
[22:17:54] <ssi> the neat thing about pulsing is you actually get more power out of the tube that way
[22:18:15] <ssi> cause there's a transient spike from the trigger voltage, which falls off to rated power
[22:18:23] <ssi> and if you pulse, you get that transient spike on every pulse
[22:18:52] <jesseg> so A rotates around X, and B rotates around Z, and C rotates around Y ?
[22:19:07] <ssi> A/B/C rotate about X/Y/Z
[22:19:10] <ssi> so yuo have B and C backwards
[22:19:23] <jesseg> oh cool. Thanks!
[22:19:32] <ssi> you bet
[22:19:49] <ssi> are you building a machine or writing a motion controller?
[22:19:56] <Praesmeodymium> just describing 6dof hurts my head I cant imagine programming for it
[22:20:03] <ssi> Praesmeodymium: :)
[22:20:11] <ssi> it's just math :D
[22:20:26] <ssi> he said, cavalierly, as if he could do it without a lot of research and work
[22:21:00] <jesseg> ssi, both
[22:22:26] <ssi> something pc based, something embedded?
[22:22:34] <ssi> hopefully not Yet Another Arduino Motion Control
[22:24:31] <jesseg> ssi, I do a lot of bad things but using Arduino is not one of them :D
[22:25:14] <ssi> hahaha
[22:26:12] <jesseg> ssi, sort of PC based. Basically designed and built a PIC micro based 4 channel PID motor controller board, which communicates either via S&D on printer port (works with LinuxCNC) and also works via RS232 which allows up to 4 boards (16 servos) to be controlled in a coordinated manner.
[22:26:33] <ssi> gotcha
[22:26:37] <ssi> are you aware of the mesa stuff?
[22:27:01] <jesseg> So I use that PCB to control my 2.5D engraver and am setting up to use it also for me little Shoptask lathe/mill (LOL ya I know junk but hey..), and my 3D printer design.
[22:27:17] <jesseg> Yeah, I've read about mesa, even struggled with pluto and stuff
[22:27:52] <ssi> I only mention it because it's an existing very well thought out, extensible system for doing hardware motion control, and it's tightly integrated with linuxcnc
[22:27:54] <jesseg> Haven't really kept up with any of that in years though since I had good success with my own system
[22:27:57] <ssi> and it's moderately priced
[22:28:05] <jesseg> yeah it's cool and all
[22:28:13] <ssi> but if your goal is hardware design, carry on :)
[22:28:52] <jesseg> but I like to control my motors via a small low power embeded linux computer, using text based /CLI programs or scripts, and it seems to work really well via the serial port :)
[22:29:13] <ssi> that's basically the same concept
[22:29:18] <ssi> for instance, this is what I'm working on now
[22:29:26] <ssi> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
[22:29:59] <ssi> I'm helping write the code to make it a smartserial remote to work with linuxcnc via mesa hardware
[22:30:19] <jesseg> ahh cool
[22:31:12] <ssi> mesa stuff is basically fpgas that attach to your host via pci or epp or ethernet, and allow you to offload a lot of the lower level and fast-timed work to the fpga
[22:31:22] <ssi> and then give you a lot of hardware options for interfacing with mechatronics
[22:31:35] <jesseg> yeah it's a really neat idea
[22:31:44] <renesis> wow you said mechatronics
[22:31:55] <ssi> renesis: was it the word of the day?
[22:32:09] <renesis> when i say mechatronics everyone goes WHAT THAT
[22:32:21] <renesis> ssi: is the major im studying
[22:32:29] <ssi> ah haha
[22:32:50] <renesis> a lot of times i just say we learn how to design mechatrons
[22:32:54] <jesseg> Sounds like a fun major
[22:33:01] <renesis> its funny when some people just go 'oh'
[22:33:06] <Loetmichel2> meh... about 5 cuts in the fingers later i have about 1/3 of the cardboard boxes my wife has stacked in the living room cut down, ready for disposal... those xacto knives go thru fles like they go thru cardboard: effortles.. :-( *gets another bandaid and affixes it* ... maybe i should have started earlier than 6 hours prior to my wife coming back with cleaning up that mess...
[22:33:07] <ssi> mechatronics as a major always struck me as "I like computers! I like electronics! I like robots! I like mechanical engineering! I have no idea what major to pick!"
[22:33:29] <renesis> jesseg: kinda, its hybrid EE and ME, basically no electives that arent absolutely required
[22:33:58] <ssi> if I were going to school I'd probably do mechatronics actually
[22:34:35] <jesseg> ssi, My major impediment is that I have a hard time figuring out other's code. It's often easier for me to just write my own for simple stuff then to figure out someone else's example code :P
[22:34:44] <ssi> jesseg: I understand entirely
[22:34:46] <ssi> but that way lies madness :)
[22:34:51] <renesis> i want to double major in EE, that way id be like 3/5 electronics and 2/3 mechanical, i think that reflects me
[22:34:58] <ssi> in the software industry we call that "not-invented-here syndrome"
[22:35:38] <ssi> fact of the matter is code is easier to write than it is to read, and it's very easy to be tempted to throw it away and start over
[22:35:48] <ssi> but you're throwing away a lot of years of someone else figuring out bugs
[22:36:13] <jesseg> ssi, yeah, or depending on the project, a lot of years of someone adding buts :P
[22:36:35] <ssi> generally that's not how it works
[22:36:56] <ssi> when you dive into an old code base, the stuff that looks like a bunch of hacky ramshackle garbage is actually the fossil record of years of bug fixing :)
[22:37:14] <jesseg> Thing is, finding someone else's bug is a thousand times harder to my own. So even if someone else's code has 1% as many bugs as mine, fixing tem is still ten times harder when you're a poor programmer like me
[22:37:26] <renesis> thats the job
[22:37:29] <ssi> yep
[22:37:42] <ssi> thats why code is harder to read than to write
[22:37:48] <jesseg> haha yup
[22:37:56] <ssi> I assure you, code written by past jesseg is just as hard to read and debug as code written by anyone else :)
[22:38:03] <ssi> past you is a dick
[22:38:13] <renesis> you get hired and tell a project manager 3/4 the way through a project youre just going to rewrite it, youll maybe have no job
[22:38:14] <jesseg> present me might even be
[22:38:19] <ssi> future you will think present you is a dick
[22:38:30] <ssi> renesis: I have done that many times :)
[22:38:41] <renesis> which side?
[22:38:46] <renesis> the coder or the manager?
[22:38:48] <ssi> the coder
[22:38:50] <ssi> I could never manage
[22:39:12] <renesis> yeah one boss throught i was going to take his place as a lab manager
[22:39:18] <renesis> that obviously didnt work out
[22:39:25] <ssi> lol
[22:39:34] <ssi> ok I gotta go hunt and kill some wendy's or something
[22:39:43] <ssi> I'm not being productive anymore and hunger is a contributing factor
[22:39:44] <renesis> ew wendys
[22:39:53] <ssi> yeah my options are quite limited out here :)
[22:40:04] <ssi> I could go eat alone at waffle house
[22:40:16] <ssi> but I had waffle house in the middle of the night the last two nights in a row
[22:40:29] <Crom> Me and the better half just did Richies... Chicken Fried Steak.... Yummmmm
[22:40:42] <ssi> back in a few
[22:50:19] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: !!!
[22:50:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Do you happen to have/use an android phone?
[22:51:03] <jesseg> ssi, are A/B/C (angular axes) treated incrementally when G91 is set?
[22:55:41] <XXCoder> whew
[22:55:46] <XXCoder> been working on cnc machine for a bit
[22:55:53] <XXCoder> drag chains on place now :)
[22:56:05] <XXCoder> and had to move stuff around so everythings properly placed
[22:56:18] <XXCoder> tweaked settings some more so it dont jam
[22:56:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: yes
[22:56:22] <XXCoder> odd thing though
[22:56:32] <XXCoder> I ste max velocity to 50 mm/s
[22:56:59] <XXCoder> but it can go 2000 m/s and seem to be same speed as config test speed at 50 mm/s
[22:57:03] <XXCoder> *mm/.s
[22:57:15] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you get a chance, could you see if your USB CAM can be used on your andriod phone (via OTG cable) ?
[22:57:39] <Loetmichel> sorry, i cant. i have no otg cable for it
[22:57:51] <ssi> jesseg: I can't answer that, sorry :/
[22:57:55] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Can you borrow one?
[22:58:00] <Loetmichel> no
[22:58:05] <XXCoder> I have android and otg
[22:58:05] <ssi> I would imagine so tho
[22:58:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: steal? buy? get?
[22:58:35] <Loetmichel> i dont even know it a gt-n7000 has otg capability
[22:58:44] <Loetmichel> (samsung note 1
[22:58:46] <Loetmichel> )
[22:58:51] <jesseg> Hmmm. The Journeyman's Guide to Cnc Machines - Bryan Hurst -- says that U,V, and W are relative to X,Y, and Z, regardless G90/G91 mode.. But does say that A/B/C are in degrees and are either incremental or absolute depending on G90/G91
[22:59:52] <jesseg> ssi, does it make sense for U/V/W to be relative to X/Y/Z ?
[23:00:22] <ssi> it makes sense to design a system that way, but I'm fairly sure that's not how linuxcnc works
[23:00:31] <ssi> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/machining_center.html
[23:00:35] <ssi> The U, V, and W axes produce linear motion in three mutually orthogonal directions. Typically, X and U are parallel, Y and V are parallel, and Z and W are parallel.
[23:01:12] <jesseg> I'll do it the linuxCNC way then :)
[23:02:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It seems liek it does, but which cam did you get, just off ebay?
[23:06:26] <ssi> jesseg: so if you're doing this, do me a favor and implement your trajectory planner as a finite-jerk planner. That's one thing we're missing currently
[23:07:10] <jesseg> ssi, haha umm I don't know even what that is. But I did look up the word gullible in the dictionary and there was my picture :D
[23:07:15] <ssi> haha
[23:07:33] <ssi> jerk is the derivative of accel, right
[23:07:38] <XXCoder> hey Jymmm it works, kinda. my really crappy webcom dont work with app but definitely detected
[23:07:42] <ssi> our tp will change accel as a step function
[23:07:54] <ssi> ie it goes from 0 accel to N accel instantaneously
[23:08:07] <ssi> which means that there's infinite jerk at that transient
[23:08:23] <jesseg> I might not be following.
[23:08:24] <Praesmeodymium> does your planner not have junction devation?
[23:08:31] <ssi> a finite jerk planner would have a MAX_JERK param in addition to the MAX_ACCEL that we alraedy have
[23:08:51] <ssi> and it would limit the rate of change of accel into and out of acceleration changes, so as to keep the jerk under MAX_JERK
[23:08:54] <jesseg> It is not possible to go from 0 speed to a non zero speed in the digital world without some infinite ratio of acceleration..
[23:09:01] <jesseg> Ahhhh
[23:09:19] <jesseg> And what unit would MAX_JERK be?
[23:09:31] <ssi> machine units per second per second per second :)
[23:09:37] <ssi> mm/s^3
[23:09:47] <jesseg> Ahh the cubic whine
[23:10:22] <ssi> finite jerk will make flimsy machines less shaky on motion
[23:10:24] <jesseg> So is jerk a problem....? I never really thought about it. I mean, obviously at slow speeds my machine moves in steps of it's hardware encoder resolution
[23:10:41] <ssi> hang on trying to find you a pic
[23:10:45] <jesseg> oh thanks
[23:11:03] <jesseg> I will tell you right up front I'm not too bright and rather slow to understand things :P
[23:11:13] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btb4wAaIUAAWZYp.jpg:large
[23:11:24] <ssi> that's one of the first tests of my laser
[23:11:28] <jesseg> hahahaha
[23:11:36] <jesseg> I take it he snakies were invaders?
[23:11:53] <ssi> that's due to shaking of the machine due to flimsy legs without enough damping, and infinite jerk motion
[23:12:15] <jesseg> hmm
[23:12:33] <jesseg> so acceleration and deceleration were too quick..?
[23:12:37] <ssi> I only bring it up because if you're dead set on reinventing the wheel, might as well make it a better wheel :)
[23:12:54] <jesseg> yeah! thanks! I appreciate it! I'm dead set. :P
[23:13:09] <jesseg> But I'm not sure I understand the problem.
[23:13:23] <pcw_home> Jerk is an issue because without limited jerk you have steps in forces
[23:13:56] <ssi> you know how when you're stopping your car with constant deceleration, when you come to a stop it's sorta abrupt feeling, and a car with squishy suspension will rock back and forth?
[23:14:01] <ssi> that's jerk
[23:14:02] <pcw_home> these steps contain a wide range or frequencies and can excite vibrations in the mechanics
[23:14:09] <ssi> that's going from some val of decel to zero accel all at once
[23:14:11] <jesseg> ssi Ahhh, OK
[23:14:41] <jesseg> Sudden change in inertial force
[23:14:56] <ssi> something like that :)
[23:14:59] <pcw_home> yes stepwise changes
[23:15:55] <jesseg> ssi, what kind of XY framework did you have? That is significant wobble. It was so bad I thought you had servo resonance issues :P Or is it open loop steppers?
[23:16:18] <ssi> it was steppers, and it was a fairly big machine built out of 20mm extrusion
[23:16:32] <jesseg> ahh LOL okay yeah I found that with my 20mm extrusion project too
[23:16:34] <ssi> the frame was 60x36" plan view
[23:16:43] <ssi> and it sat on 36" tall spindly 20mm legs
[23:16:52] <ssi> and when the gantry would stop, the whole machine would shake fore and aft on the legs
[23:17:04] <ssi> I could have solved the problem by making the machine stiffer and better damped
[23:17:09] <ssi> instead I solved the problem by setting it on fire
[23:17:14] <jesseg> LOL
[23:17:57] <ssi> but that picture is interesting because you're seeing those instantaneous changes in direction I was talking about earlier
[23:18:01] <jesseg> I should take note, because I've started a 1.5Mx1.5M CNC plasma cutter project. Only has a Z axis of 3 inches though, and it sits down only a few inches tall
[23:18:05] <ssi> there's a lot of dynamics in those corners that are important
[23:18:17] <ssi> I have a machine about that size
[23:18:27] <ssi> 54"x54" plasma cutter with a 2.5" Z
[23:18:32] <ssi> but that machine is much more rigid
[23:18:41] <ssi> it's built out of 2x4" 3/16" wall steel tubing
[23:19:34] <jesseg> yeah, come to think of it, to do a perfect corner you do have to come to a complete stop, even if it's only 45 degrees, other wise you have a moment of infinite acceleration on the one axis :P
[23:19:46] <XXCoder> I guess Jymmm left
[23:19:47] <ssi> exactly
[23:20:06] <ssi> the only way to avoid stopping is to radius the corner
[23:20:13] <ssi> how small a radius you can do depends on your max accel
[23:20:32] <XXCoder> ssi: on that im curious how small it would be at 200 m/s
[23:20:37] <XXCoder> er
[23:20:40] <XXCoder> mm/s^2
[23:20:55] <jesseg> Maybe I wont' even worry about trying to maintain any velocity between segments, unless perhaps they are within very close to the same trajectory :P
[23:21:20] <ssi> jesseg: see you're already thinking abouht segment blending :)
[23:21:35] <ssi> these problems have already been carefully considered and solved :)
[23:21:37] <jesseg> yeah and it hurts :P
[23:23:19] <pcw_home> Theres even a rumor that CAB is working with UVW now
[23:24:06] <jesseg> The problem is I'm not really a real machinist. I'm just a hobbiest. Most of the times I bang my head against the wall in want of CNC, it's for simple things like a rectangular or radial bolt hole pattern, or a simple pocket, or cutting threads, or whatever. So my intention is to actually make little task specific scripts for doing just that. Nothing fancy, just let me do what I want with no muss or fuss if making a 3D design. I'm not very good at 3D des
[23:24:06] <jesseg> ign :P
[23:24:08] <ssi> nice
[23:24:45] <ssi> jesseg: yeah I hear you, but I think your time would be better spent learning to use an existing system rather than trying to climb that ladder all over again
[23:25:23] <jesseg> ssi, oh probably. But this is my entertainment time. I don't watch TV or read news paper. I do this instead. So all it's gotta be is better spent than TV :D
[23:25:33] <ssi> trust me, I'm one of the worst offenders when it comes to stubbornly doing things my way rather than spending money on things
[23:26:41] <ssi> think of linuxcnc as an incredibly powerful programming language for building machines
[23:26:45] <jesseg> In fact I have used LinuxCNC. A friend wanted to get into 3D printing, so we rigged up a little Sherline aluminum mini mill with a hotend and ran it with LinuxCNC via the printer port. So I know what's out there and I've tasted it.
[23:27:14] <ssi> once you learn the language, you can extend it in all sorts of ways
[23:27:20] <jesseg> Yeah, and if I'd written it, I'd be able to make it do whatever I wanted :D
[23:27:23] <ssi> ways that don't require you to rewrite a trajectory planner :)
[23:27:56] <jesseg> My trajectory planner actually works very well for my applications so far :D
[23:28:13] <ssi> there's a learning curve, but it's not nearly as steep as the learning curve for writing a good general purpose machine control platform
[23:28:35] <jesseg> yeah, the learning curve is so steep I fell off
[23:29:58] <jesseg> I even am writing a 2.5D simple cad program because I couldn't stand the user interface on any I've tried :P
http://videoflier.com/gwcad/
[23:30:09] <ssi> hey I'm with you there
[23:30:15] <ssi> I haven't solved the cam problem for myself yet
[23:30:25] <XXCoder> cam too :(
[23:30:33] <ssi> in fact, why don't you write a cam program for us instead
[23:30:35] <XXCoder> freecad I like, pretty effective cad
[23:30:41] <ssi> and I'll help you get running with linuxcnc for your machines :)
[23:30:41] <XXCoder> please
[23:30:45] <ssi> THAT would be a better use of your time :)
[23:30:48] <jesseg> ssi, is cam that step to turn the cad model into GCodes?
[23:30:52] <ssi> yes
[23:31:16] <XXCoder> its apparently easy for 3d printers and not so much for mill and other stuff,
[23:31:49] <jesseg> ssi, ahh. My cad program does export to GCodes. But it's only 2.5D, in that you can draw lines and stuff and you can specify their Z value, and it will be sent, but there is no support for moving Z at same time of X or Y.
[23:33:00] <ssi> these kinds of things get very complicated in the edge cases
[23:33:11] <jesseg> What's an edge case?
[23:33:37] <ssi> situations that exist outside of the mindset you were in when you wrote the software :)
[23:33:45] <XXCoder> yeah
[23:34:12] <jesseg> well, yeah. My program started out as a GIS/Mapping app, where 2D was fine lol
[23:34:22] <XXCoder> for online store you have a customer that orders million parts, 1 part, zero part, negative one part, shoes parts, $#!@#!@#@ parts
[23:35:12] <XXCoder> jesseg: one time I could order -100 of one thing at one website. but decided not. lol that would mean they would send me stuff then pay me money :P
[23:35:44] <jesseg> LOL or send you a note that your shipment (from you to them) had not arrived yet
[23:36:14] <XXCoder> also dont forget customer that order ''; DROP TABLE ORDERS;
[23:36:21] <jesseg> lol
[23:36:25] <XXCoder> (not quite correct sql injection but yeah)
[23:38:08] <ssi> little bobby tables
[23:38:25] <XXCoder> yeah that was one of funny xfce
[23:40:55] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/addedsql.jpg
[23:41:15] <ssi> ahahaha
[23:41:18] <XXCoder> dunno
[23:41:23] <XXCoder> sql tastes awful lol
[23:41:34] <XXCoder> it includes equipment table lol
[23:42:24] <jesseg> ssi, thank you for the kind offer. However, 3D math makes my brain hurt seriously. I'm just no good at it. And I've already gotten my machines working with LinuxCNC before, using S&D on LPT. However, I've wondered how hard it would be to get LinuxCNC talking to my PID/Servo driver boards via the Rs232 port, since that allows reading of position and full resolution everything.
[23:42:47] <ssi> jesseg: probably wouldn't be that hard
[23:42:53] <archivist> rs232 is too damned slow
[23:43:16] <ssi> archivist: it's fast enough for a 1khz position loop if you're just sending pos_cmd and receiving pos_fb
[23:43:22] <ssi> I think it is anyway :)
[23:43:33] <archivist> for how many axes!
[23:43:38] <ssi> and RS232 itself isn't slow
[23:43:43] <ssi> smartserial is rs232 :)
[23:44:01] <ssi> (for some values of rs232)
[23:44:06] <archivist> actually real rs232 has speed limits due to the cable
[23:44:21] <ssi> true
[23:44:39] <jesseg> yeah... my protocol does 960 positions/second for ONE axis, 1/4 of that for four :P
[23:44:48] <ssi> jesseg: yea that's too slow
[23:44:53] <ssi> needs to be about five times faster
[23:45:11] <ssi> if you could do 1000 updates a second for four axes you'd be in the ballpark :)
[23:45:20] <jesseg> ssi, yeah it does, but in my case, the PID is entirely on the motor controller board so the RS232 slowness does not cause delay in the PID
[23:45:36] <ssi> understand that
[23:45:44] <jesseg> My PID loop runs at 1Khz
[23:46:07] <jesseg> so yeah, no high performance operations for me. I just run everything slower :P
[23:46:43] <ssi> archivist: i believe it's pretty trivial to get rs232->rs485 converters and run higher speeds on longer runs
[23:46:50] <jesseg> I could actually use a higher baud rate if my PC supported it (and actually, now days, they do support higher rates a lot of times, like a mbit or more)
[23:47:12] <archivist> ssi two wrongs dont make a right :)
[23:47:19] <jesseg> LOL
[23:47:29] <ssi> jesseg: the drive I showed you earlier runs a 5khz servo loop and communicates over 2.5mbit rs422 ie smartserial
[23:47:39] <jesseg> ssi, oh cool
[23:47:43] <ssi> archivist: three rights make a left :)
[23:47:44] <jesseg> way to go
[23:50:07] <ssi> speaking of which, I really really need to sort out the input scaling code
[23:50:17] <ssi> I've been sitting here ADD'ing out for like four hours
[23:51:38] <jesseg> ssi, I been thinking about your jerk issue. I'm worried that no matter what the exact decel curve looks like, the fact is there's still x mass changing rate over y time, and that will create force. If t he machine is wobbly, it will wobble :P
[23:52:10] <XXCoder> rigidness IS important to machine
[23:52:11] <jesseg> The trick is to get most of the decel time spread out over a time period that is longer than the resonant period of the machine
[23:52:30] <ssi> jesseg: yeah but then you have a sloooooow machine
[23:52:36] <jesseg> so simply increasing the accel/decel length could do it
[23:52:40] <ssi> you want as much accel as you can get
[23:52:45] <jesseg> yeah I know. A wobble machine is a slow machine :P
[23:52:52] <ssi> otherwise you spend all your time accelerating, and never cruising
[23:53:12] <ssi> jerk management could lead to a machine which was smooth AND fast
[23:53:14] <jesseg> If x amount of mass changes y amount of velocity in a time period less than the resonant period of the machine, it's *gonna* sway.
[23:53:20] <XXCoder> ssi: I recently finally found good balance with my machine
[23:53:23] <ssi> I know it's possible cause I've seen it done :)
[23:53:31] <XXCoder> 50 mm/s and 200 mm/s^2
[23:53:53] <ssi> here, let this bend your brain a bit
[23:53:53] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep2lNMic_fk
[23:54:30] <XXCoder> I wish it had shown how it changes positions in triple.
[23:55:03] <jesseg> it's ballancing 3 things on top of eachothre...?
[23:55:07] <ssi> yes
[23:55:20] <jesseg> hmmm
[23:55:44] <XXCoder> jesseg: the double one shows how it manages tro switch positions]
[23:55:54] <XXCoder> for example all up to up then doqn
[23:55:55] <XXCoder> down
[23:55:57] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP6f9r5MBWg
[23:55:59] <ssi> omg I need this
[23:56:00] <jesseg> that's actually very interesting in light of FFT
[23:56:49] <XXCoder> that is awesome
[23:57:14] <ssi> I wish I could say I understood enough about that to make one :(
[23:57:53] <XXCoder> design wise its not that complex
[23:58:03] <XXCoder> need to be very balanced though
[23:58:17] <ssi> yeah and i don't know how you go about getting the dimensions and balance right
[23:58:29] <XXCoder> my guess? do one a time
[23:58:34] <XXCoder> use rod and balance
[23:58:35] <ssi> are they gimballed 45 degrees apart?
[23:58:37] <ssi> looks like it
[23:58:43] <ssi> er maybe not
[23:58:45] <ssi> 30 degrees?
[23:58:49] <XXCoder> looks like 90 degree 90 degree 45 degree
[23:58:54] <ssi> it's not
[23:59:22] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lka6d6DDBs
[23:59:31] <XXCoder> lets see if autocaptions makes sense
[23:59:51] <fenn> that was a common "chaos toy" office desk thingy in the 1990's
[23:59:59] <jesseg> ssi, If you could model int he swaying of your machine, then yeah, you could make it fast and steady :P
