#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-10-30

[00:37:50] <XXCoder> jdh: I paid $15 something for mine
[00:38:06] <XXCoder> 16 gb. plenty of space for linuxcnc.
[00:55:06] <MattyMatt> sata3 wouldn't get used to advantage, on any machine I run linuxcnc on :)
[00:56:25] <MattyMatt> those 4GB ide boot drives are more my style, shame they don't get much bigger
[00:56:40] <XXCoder> not sure what my hd stats are but I just use 16 gb ssd because its hella cheap
[00:57:28] <MattyMatt> it's worth it over hdd for boot speed
[00:57:51] <XXCoder> mines so cheap tat I doubt it beats regular hds
[00:58:13] <MattyMatt> oh they do. I started with a kingspec
[00:58:21] <XXCoder> lol ok
[00:58:37] <MattyMatt> at reading especially, even the cheap ones are many many times faster than a hdd
[00:59:10] <MattyMatt> my pata one is fully maxing out the bus
[00:59:54] <MattyMatt> no it isn't. that one's still imaginary :p it WOULD be if I could justify them
[01:00:18] <XXCoder> well that ssd is $20 lol
[01:01:03] <MattyMatt> not pata. if they have pata for $20 delivered, I could buy in for my obsolescent laptops
[01:01:31] <XXCoder> no sata to pata?
[01:01:46] <MattyMatt> no room in the lappy
[01:02:07] <MattyMatt> I got USB to pata, could easily get usb to sata
[01:02:35] <MattyMatt> but if I do that, I might as well buy 32GB usb sticks and boot off those
[01:02:45] <XXCoder> actually
[01:02:51] <XXCoder> ypu can create internal usb drive
[01:03:05] <XXCoder> wire a hub inside old HD space
[01:03:13] <XXCoder> then route one back to orginial port
[01:03:26] <XXCoder> hell you can add other devices meanwhile
[01:03:29] <XXCoder> like wireless mouse
[01:04:41] <MattyMatt> these old machines aren't worth that much bother. linuxcnc doesn't even see the pata port on most of them
[01:05:02] <XXCoder> laptop printer ports has huge latency
[01:05:09] <MattyMatt> and I can't find a modern distro that doesn't run like glue
[01:05:11] <XXCoder> my laptop has over 90k latenacy
[01:05:27] <XXCoder> nbot even puppy linux or damn small linux?
[01:05:52] <XXCoder> puppy linux isnt designed to be installed but run off flash drive so its good for that usb hack
[01:10:28] <MattyMatt> I've got 21 old thinkpads. so I'd like something with gnome 2 on all of them
[01:10:56] <XXCoder> I suggest xfce anything
[01:10:59] <MattyMatt> that's the easiest desktop to pass off as "just like XP" :)
[01:11:04] <XXCoder> xfce runs MUCH lighter than gnome
[01:11:09] <XXCoder> and yes can be xp-kinda
[01:12:49] <MattyMatt> I'll leave off further attempts until I get them all wired up for netboot
[01:13:04] <MattyMatt> I need a 100A 16V bus :)
[01:13:49] <MattyMatt> or 20 dodgy chinese psu. either way, check the house insurance Momma
[01:14:03] <XXCoder> lol so whats your plan
[01:14:17] <MattyMatt> sloping shelves, 6 to a row
[01:14:55] <MattyMatt> I've got at least 2 rows with working screens
[01:17:12] <MattyMatt> plan C. Shoot Airgun At Thinkpads for £5 stand, put money towards one modern laptop
[01:18:35] <MattyMatt> shooting a CRT was probably more visceral
[01:20:04] <Wolf_Mill> add tannerite
[01:25:19] <XXCoder> little tnt to make it showy
[01:25:52] <Wolf_Mill> https://youtu.be/1pW-NiG0OL4 dont think you need to add anything
[01:26:16] <MattyMatt> it's firework season here, and there's chinese munition grade ones on sale at the docks here
[03:18:40] <Contract_Pilot> Ok, Away for the weekend!
[04:50:04] <Jymmm> Um.... What's wrong with this statement??? "Arduino Industrial Automation" lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-yh7weJWYI
[04:51:36] <XXCoder> lol
[04:51:43] <XXCoder> if it works it works
[04:52:05] <Jymmm> A pet rock "works", but...
[04:52:38] <Jymmm> I bullet for a temporary fuse "works"...
[04:53:09] <XXCoder> its not clear what its used for though
[04:55:31] <Jymmm> Of course it is, you just don't understand industrial automation!
[04:55:55] <XXCoder> well it IS silent to me
[04:56:00] <XXCoder> so its not clear
[04:56:39] <Jymmm> Doesn't mater, you STILL have to wear earplugs!
[04:57:08] <XXCoder> hu?
[04:57:25] <XXCoder> I didnt see anything that would make loud noise in video?
[04:57:47] <Jymmm> Exactly
[04:58:10] <Jymmm> Here, go type something http://uniqcode.com/typewriter/
[04:58:24] <XXCoder> unless noise level would cause me to bleed from ears, what can it do? make me deaf-er?
[04:58:53] <Jymmm> ITS THE LAW, you must wear earplugs!
[04:59:27] <XXCoder> Jymmm: I still do not see where sound comes in in that video.
[04:59:30] <XXCoder> was it loud or what?
[04:59:54] <Jymmm> "2015-10-30.02:31:53 XXCoder: well it IS silent to me "
[05:01:09] <XXCoder> I meant that I cannot hear guy talking about arduno stuff
[05:01:17] <XXCoder> so I know even know what it was used for.
[05:01:46] <Jymmm> Ah... broken chinglish with heavy accent
[05:02:03] <XXCoder> did guy say what it was for?
[05:02:08] <Jymmm> nope
[05:02:28] <Jymmm> just what you say on the lcd
[05:02:32] <Jymmm> saw*
[05:02:41] <XXCoder> odd
[05:03:05] <XXCoder> its definitely not a proof if it does not show what its used for
[05:03:06] <Jymmm> It's industrial automation, you wouldn't understand =)
[05:04:12] <XXCoder> so you researched my entire life and judged that?
[05:04:33] <Jymmm> damn right!
[05:04:39] <XXCoder> cool
[05:04:56] <XXCoder> msg drraq dang call cops now he just admitted it
[05:05:26] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Dude, it's sarcasim. I'm mocking the ARDUINO "Industrial"
[05:05:33] <XXCoder> I know. lol
[05:05:46] <XXCoder> well mocking part anyway
[05:05:54] <Jymmm> <rolls eyes>
[05:06:00] <XXCoder> lol
[05:07:16] <XXCoder> just read about one guy who experences constant deja vu
[05:07:21] <XXCoder> jeez bet thats a nightmare
[05:07:58] <gonzo_> wonder when that happened for the first time?
[05:08:18] <XXCoder> guy apparently have it start at 2007
[05:08:23] <XXCoder> still going on now
[05:08:48] <XXCoder> I was dizzy constantly for 9 months then often on and off for few months
[05:08:49] <gonzo_> is it possible to have deja vu for the first time?
[05:09:03] <XXCoder> I cant imange what that is like
[05:09:08] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:20:26] <Deejay> moin
[05:55:36] <jthornton> morning
[05:56:08] <XXCoder> night
[05:59:34] <archivist> nearly elevenses
[05:59:53] <XXCoder> oops I broke reality. http://im-possible.info/images/art/sculpture/tosevite/impossible_box.jpg
[06:11:34] <malcom2073_> Haha that video
[06:11:40] <malcom2073_> "This is... I don't know... industrial automation!"
[06:25:37] <jthornton> I had to shave my mouse
[06:27:30] <XXCoder> tsk time to get new computer mouse if its growing hair or something
[06:28:30] <archivist> on an old mouse systems mouse it was a regular job to wash its felt feet
[06:28:47] <XXCoder> and its sensors for its ball
[06:30:55] <jthornton> the fuzz was so thick the optical would not read the desktop lol
[06:31:09] <archivist> mouse systems had no ball
[06:31:25] <XXCoder> lol jthornton
[06:31:43] <XXCoder> archivist: hmm that tablet thing that has special mouse?
[06:32:17] <archivist> yes was back in the early 1990's
[06:32:34] <jthornton> I kept wondering why the mouse was acting up lol
[06:32:40] <XXCoder> saw one but never used it. I usually just use male mouse
[06:32:50] <XXCoder> wonder if anyone use old male mouses now lol
[06:36:34] <archivist> I use mice with balls
[06:37:02] <jthornton> I have a couple of boxes of mice and keyboards
[06:37:04] <XXCoder> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1536286486/the-element-cube-62-elements-1-cube
[06:37:22] <XXCoder> yeah dunno if guy is just shipping alum blocks or not
[06:44:53] <malcom2073_> Compressed powder
[06:45:04] <malcom2073_> They mixed 62 metal powders, compressed them into a cube
[06:45:05] <malcom2073_> profit!
[06:45:20] <malcom2073_> I love the internet
[06:45:22] <archivist> I doubt they do that much
[06:46:07] <malcom2073_> I wonder how long it'll last before oxidization takes its toll and it falls apart
[06:46:13] <archivist> I bet they just got an analysis of aluminium bar and use that mix
[06:46:37] <malcom2073_> Then their KS page lied, and hopefully they'l get slammed for it heh
[06:46:54] <archivist> lied!
[06:47:39] <archivist> nobody lies on the internet
[06:48:06] <malcom2073_> Eh, very few fully funded kickstarters turn out to be lies
[06:48:18] <XXCoder> outright lies anyway
[06:48:28] <malcom2073_> Delivery dates aside
[06:49:19] <malcom2073_> You are all just too pessimistic :P
[06:49:22] <malcom2073_> Bunch of negative nancies
[06:49:23] <archivist> I never read to the bottom of the page originally
[06:49:55] <archivist> but I see a waste of space and money for what it is :)
[06:50:57] <malcom2073_> See, and with that kind of an attitude you'll never sell your pet rocks :P
[06:51:07] <archivist> scroll down to "who is it for", note two are dead!
[06:51:57] <malcom2073_> That's noble of them
[06:52:49] <archivist> I have too many scruples to ever con people with junk
[06:53:12] <malcom2073_> Junk to you is not junk to everyone, and it's only a con if they don't know what they're getting
[06:53:33] <malcom2073_> If you only sell people things that are worth it to you, you'll have a limited audience of one
[06:54:39] <Wolf_> arent some of them elements radioactive?
[07:00:29] <XXCoder> Wolf_: ultmately that dont matter if only few atoms
[07:01:35] <Wolf_> true
[07:05:15] <Wolf_> guess next is a jar with all the know gasses in it...
[07:06:26] <XXCoder> heh that'd be fun
[07:06:37] <XXCoder> hyrogen and oxygen would combine to make water
[07:06:48] <XXCoder> water would then eat that brown gas element
[07:06:56] <XXCoder> so it would not contain that anymore
[07:07:22] <Wolf_> “Inspired by the periodic table, we present a unisex necklace, crafted from the same element powder used to press the element cubes!” How the fuck is that = “The Element Cube really is the first of its kind. Containing over 60 metals in one cube, this is truly the largest alloy in the world”
[07:07:32] <XXCoder> that one must be carefully sealed because if there is even one water paracle it will SLOOOWLY eat all of that gas
[07:07:41] <XXCoder> turns it into another element
[07:08:43] <gonzo_> "Inspired by the possability of getting free money from stupid people......
[07:09:54] <XXCoder> hmm may have misremembered
[07:10:23] <Wolf_> those parts… “element powder used to press the element cubes!” = “is truly the largest alloy in the world”
[07:10:37] <Wolf_> doesn’t sound right to me
[07:10:52] <gonzo_> press does not sounds like an alloy
[07:12:03] <Wolf_> to me it looks like a chunk of brushed stainless
[07:13:06] <XXCoder> it [probably is.
[07:25:30] <archivist> why are the customers so gullible
[07:27:03] <jthornton> damn the sample sim configs are so confusing now I give up trying to even look at them
[07:39:18] <jthornton> 0x in front of a number usually means it's an octal number?
[07:41:00] <XXCoder> hex
[07:41:10] <XXCoder> 0xdeadbeef
[07:43:54] <gonzo_> 0nnnn can mean octal
[07:44:14] <archivist> 0777 all teh permissions
[07:44:28] <gonzo_> a bugger if you put leading zero on a value in a prog
[07:44:36] <jthornton> dang its cold this morning
[07:44:43] <jthornton> 34f
[07:45:48] <jthornton> thanks
[07:45:50] <gonzo_> zip your flies up if you are getting a cxold dang!
[07:53:33] <SpeedEvil> Wolf_: take stainless powder, and add 1ppm of other elements. Now either hot isostatic press, or melt, for something that meets the claims
[08:49:11] <Jymmm> jthornton: "damn the sample sim configs are so confusing now..." How so?
[09:10:10] <justanotheruser> I want so bad http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_1100.html
[09:10:24] <justanotheruser> they even have a spooky logo for halloween
[09:19:27] <malcom2073_> Ah nice, mill table is covered with a fine layer of rust
[09:22:15] <Jymmm> justanotheruser: Just $8,412.00 and it's yours!
[09:22:33] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: You missed "For the low low price of"
[09:27:26] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Well, if you consider the "build-your-own", source components (ebay, etc), cabling, connectors, components, (all the nickel-and-dime stuff that REALLY adds up in the end), The price really isn't that bad at all... http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=PCNC1100_Packages_ATC
[09:27:51] <malcom2073_> Oh no I agree, if I had the money I would've likely bought one of those. A buddy of mine has one and likes it for home use
[09:28:48] <Jymmm> Hel, even includes a compressor
[09:29:08] <malcom2073_> For the low low price of $22k
[09:29:28] <Jymmm> No, it was included in that $8K price
[09:29:36] <malcom2073_> double check that
[09:29:39] <malcom2073_> Hit add to cart
[09:29:57] <malcom2073_> The base machine is 8k, all the extras are a lot more
[09:30:08] <Jymmm> Ah damn, they be messin with me
[09:30:22] <Jymmm> ok, nm. I take it all back
[09:30:30] <malcom2073_> I still would've gotten one if I had the money
[09:30:32] <Jymmm> THOSE BASTARDS!!!
[09:30:34] <malcom2073_> But alas, I'm not rich
[09:30:42] <malcom2073_> I'm stick with my rusting beast.
[09:30:46] <malcom2073_> stuck*
[09:30:53] <Jymmm> add vinegar
[09:54:26] <CaptHindsight> at least they don't make you buy a custom power cord for $1700
[09:55:12] * SpeedEvil imagines a $1700 powerchord.
[09:55:46] <CaptHindsight> just like most other power cords just with a custom pinout
[10:03:50] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You mean ship the EU cords to the US, and the US cords to EU intentionally =)
[10:11:56] <jthornton> Jymmm, take a look and try to modify one
[10:12:09] <CaptHindsight> that would be too simple
[10:20:33] <JT-Shop> well my circuit board for the Genie is out for delivery, we shall soon see if I wasted $50 or not
[10:21:09] <ssi> genie?
[10:21:11] <ssi> garage door opener?
[10:23:14] <Jymmm> ssi: In a bottle sily!
[10:23:35] <ssi> ohhh
[10:23:36] <ssi> :P
[10:23:55] <ssi> in taht case, jt probably wasted his fitty bux
[10:24:41] <Jymmm> Nah, he gets three wishes
[10:33:47] <JT-Shop> yea
[10:43:47] <zeeshan|2> where do all the japanese people hang out
[10:43:48] <zeeshan|2> :{
[10:44:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: I've seen lots of them in Tokyo :)
[10:45:37] <archivist> I see the local Toymotor workers in the supermarket
[10:45:43] <zeeshan|2> the irc ones :)
[10:46:01] <justanotheruser> Jymmm: I'll get one used for $3.50
[10:47:26] <JT-Shop> ssi, is there any way to have a go import from any place?
[10:47:52] <CaptHindsight> maybe ##japanese but I could be wrong
[10:49:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/ seems to be a learn Japanese channel
[10:53:03] <ssi> JT-Shop: I don't understand the question
[10:58:29] <Wolf_> what you need zeeshan|2
[11:00:57] <Wolf_> you could go to #multiwii and ask dongs, but he can be a ass sometimes
[11:16:45] <ssi> zeeshan|2: moar! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSk2LekXAAAt-jJ.jpg:large
[11:17:04] <ssi> the inch set is pristine, the metric set is actually a flank drive plus set (SOEX), but they're a lot more used and dirty
[11:17:25] <ssi> there's rust in all the heads
[11:17:32] <ssi> but it seems to be rust from fasteners, and it wipes off the chrome
[11:18:41] <anomynous> New measuring instruments company Mitätoyo? = What is that? Or mispelled How much is it?
[11:19:53] <Wolf_> http://www.mitutoyo.com/ ?
[11:20:12] <archivist> a namealike cheap copy I bet
[11:20:34] <anomynous> a joke. Mitä toi on? is what is that in finnish. And it sounds almost like mitutoyo
[11:21:31] <Wolf_> oh, I only do english and poor japanese :)
[11:21:55] <anomynous> it was funny when i heard it. It's a shame i cant tell you it in english ;)
[11:22:07] <CaptHindsight> Kert vise, Starat micrometer, Funuc controller....
[11:22:33] <ssi> yeah, as in funuck it, I'm ripping it out and putting something else in
[11:23:15] <CaptHindsight> Meanwell power supply we just don't Do well
[11:23:20] <ssi> :D
[11:31:08] <zeeshan|2> wolf i need a wiring manual
[11:31:22] <zeeshan|2> soemone who is japanese will have an easier time finding it
[11:31:30] <zeeshan|2> ssi nice
[11:31:56] <zeeshan|2> wolf is that timecop? :)
[12:08:30] <CaptHindsight> so what's everyone doing for Halloween?
[12:09:20] <jdh> fixing my mill computer
[12:10:28] <archivist> I just moved a generator, heavy lump
[12:31:38] <anomynous> when is halloween
[12:31:49] <renesis> tomorrow
[12:36:08] <mutilator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTP-BuaZ8w it's too bad it was a pumpkin and not a giant kool-aide man
[12:55:57] <anomynous> what kind of clearence should be used for a punch tool
[12:58:04] <archivist> depends what you are cutting and its thickness
[12:58:52] <Loetmichel2> anomynous: depends on what you want to punch
[12:59:32] <Loetmichel2> usually its less than half the sheet thickness for metals
[12:59:42] <anomynous> wow
[12:59:44] <anomynous> thats a lot
[12:59:44] <Loetmichel2> and even less for paper and stuff
[12:59:53] <Loetmichel2> at maximum
[13:00:37] <anomynous> lets say for 1,5mm mild or stainless steel
[13:00:39] <anomynous> ;D
[13:00:49] <Loetmichel2> i think i would use 0,2mm clearance
[13:01:03] <anomynous> from where to where you consider
[13:01:04] <anomynous> would work
[13:01:11] <Loetmichel2> but if you cant do taht because of "non-rigid" press you can get awyy with 0,8mm
[13:01:30] <Loetmichel2> clearance between punch and die
[13:01:47] <anomynous> sure. I think i have sturdy enough press
[13:01:59] <archivist> if the punch is not symetric then there will be side forces and different clearance needs
[13:02:02] <Loetmichel2> so the hole in the die is max. 1,5mm bigger than the diameter of the punch
[13:02:06] <Loetmichel2> (if a circle)
[13:02:20] <anomynous> umm archivist what do you mean
[13:02:41] <Loetmichel2> the punch will "tilt" if its not symmetric on all axis
[13:02:43] <archivist> eg a louvre punch and die
[13:02:49] <anomynous> actually i wanted to make a flower, a leaf or something... maybe like press it into form and then have it cut off ;D
[13:02:55] <Loetmichel2> because one side has more "cutting forces" than the other
[13:03:57] <archivist> but if stretching the material things change again
[13:04:18] <Loetmichel2> you do know that for 1,5mm stanless steel you'll need a press that can excert 20++ tons for a 100mm diameter punch?
[13:04:19] <anomynous> so i need to guide the punch
[13:04:28] <Loetmichel2> or something in that ballpark
[13:04:40] <archivist> all depends on the parts
[13:04:48] <anomynous> no i didnt. I'm not sure how much the press operates, but probably can do that
[13:06:14] <anomynous> its some electric motor press, and oil gets hot after a while. It must be STONG!
[13:06:23] <Loetmichel2> hrhr
[13:06:26] <anomynous> ;D
[13:06:54] <archivist> sometimes the die set needs to be clamped(often springs) to allow the draw to work properly
[13:06:59] <Loetmichel2> you can get a steel bar to red hot... juwt with a hammer and an anvil
[13:07:01] <Loetmichel2> BTDT
[13:07:06] <Loetmichel2> just
[13:07:43] <Loetmichel2> so the oil getting hot is no indication of high forces
[13:07:51] <Loetmichel2> big hydraulig rams would be ;)
[13:07:57] <Loetmichel2> hydraulic
[13:08:07] <anomynous> archivist: i was thinking of loading the form tool with springs, and after it would come the punch from outside
[13:08:52] <anomynous> i wonder if i can find good enough springs ;D
[13:09:19] <archivist> I used a couple of clamps for my experiments (not in picture) http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_11_Smart_Brown_Press_repaired/IMG_1672.JPG
[13:09:46] <archivist> produces the domed part
[13:09:48] <anomynous> i have to go to sleep the kids
[13:09:51] <anomynous> thanks
[13:29:56] <Jymmm> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViSAhGnEAKY
[13:35:00] <Jymmm> anomynous: "sleep the kids" <-- That sounds like the making of a horror film
[13:47:06] <pcw_home> idioms don't translate well
[13:49:10] <robin_sz> so, I have tried hooking up my pendant, which works perfectly in the sim, but causes errors in my .ini
[13:52:27] <robin_sz> I get : www.pastebin.ca/3226970
[13:53:35] <robin_sz> I already commented out some lines like spindle = halui.spindle.start as it didnt like that
[13:58:59] <robin_sz> Pin 'motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs' was already linked to signal 'spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs'
[14:07:09] <JT-Shop> lol I finally got my github sorted out I think
[14:17:23] <FinboySlick> ssi: Your iMac looks a bit dirty.
[14:30:57] <robin_sz> so anyone have any ideas about how ot get this pendant tointegrate?
[14:31:05] <robin_sz> www.pastebin.ca/3226970
[14:31:30] <robin_sz> I can paste the expanded ini if it helps
[14:34:21] <Guest96468> http://pastebin.ca/3227039
[14:35:08] <robin_sz> the xhc works perfectly in sim, just connecting it up to my working .ini seems not
[14:42:33] <ssi> FinboySlick: it's a bit dirty
[14:58:05] <millfist> Hi Question i got a mesa 5i25 and if i put the PCI-card into a pci Slot 'PCI Slots (32Bit, 33 MHz, Rev. 2.3) ' of a pc the Computer does not boot up anymare
[14:58:37] <millfist> Do i need to set a IRQ in Bios
[14:58:54] <cradek> are you sure it's in the slot correctly?
[14:59:14] <millfist> i think so i checked more then ones
[14:59:20] <cradek> a lot of cases aren't very good at lining up the cards into the slots
[14:59:41] <millfist> agree
[15:00:07] <millfist> im gone check this takes one minutes
[15:07:40] <millfist> Thanks cradek it has been the steel Frame that Pushed it ofside
[15:08:02] <millfist> BYE
[15:08:36] <cradek> hm, hope s/he didn't damage it
[15:09:03] * robin_sz scratches his head
[15:09:13] <robin_sz> not getting anywhere with this pendant ...
[15:10:16] <jdh> a pedant pendant
[15:10:22] <robin_sz> indeed
[15:10:46] <robin_sz> its annoying that it works so perfectly in sim
[15:12:43] <PCW> pulling out PCI cards live (especially at an angle) is not good because of the +12V and -12V
[15:13:49] <robin_sz> you could simply say "pulling out PCI cards live is not good" .. why would anyone do that?
[15:15:01] <PCW> Sometimes a mistake, sometimes system is soft powered down by removing card trips /WAKE
[15:18:27] <PCW> (which is why you really should pull the PS plug when changing cards)
[15:23:13] <SpeedEvil> I've hotplugged an ISA soundcard, system rebooted and came back up and recognised it.
[15:23:21] <SpeedEvil> not recommended :)
[15:29:40] <robin_sz> so, is my problem likely to stem from trying to use a 2.7.1 based xhc-4 pendant file with config created with a 2.6.x versionof pncconf?
[15:30:31] <robin_sz> I tried re-running pncconf in 2.7 to regeneerate the config, but it crashed
[15:31:45] <robin_sz> it runs fine as a config with 2.7.1 ... until I add the xhc04 stuff
[15:34:59] <andypugh> robin_sz: Do you have the MDI_COMMAND= lines in the INI?
[15:35:49] <robin_sz> some. I copied the stuff out of the demo sim sample that worked fine in the sample and #INCLUDEd it into my config
[15:36:04] <andypugh> My DN2800MT no longer shuts down. It says it is going to halt, and then it re-starts
[15:36:26] <andypugh> That;s the cause of the “xhc-hb04.tcl: !!! <halui.mdi-command-14> target pin does not exist, continuing” tuffs
[15:36:45] <robin_sz> yes, but it survives those
[15:37:16] <robin_sz> its the cant connect to this pin cos its already connected to something else
[15:37:33] <robin_sz> thats killing it
[15:37:37] <andypugh> Ah, I wasn’t understanding the extent of the non-working-ness?
[15:37:48] <robin_sz> crashes out
[15:38:23] <robin_sz> line 53 of the paste
[15:38:26] <andypugh> I see
[15:38:33] <andypugh> Well, that’s an easy fix
[15:38:47] <robin_sz> good, cos its doing my head in :)
[15:39:31] <andypugh> replace net pendant:spindle-rps…..
[15:39:51] <robin_sz> uh huh ..
[15:39:56] <andypugh> with net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs => xhc-hb04.spindle-rps
[15:41:10] <robin_sz> there is just one tiny weeny problem with this
[15:41:32] <robin_sz> I dont have a that hal line in any of my conf files
[15:42:46] <robin_sz> grep "pendant:spindle" * produces no hits
[15:43:31] <andypugh> Ah, that’s awkward
[15:43:50] <andypugh> I suspect a Dewy Patent Tcl hal file
[15:44:05] <robin_sz> basically I tried the xhc04 demo sim thing, perfect
[15:44:22] <andypugh> In that case, replace spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs with pendant:spindle-rps
[15:44:22] <robin_sz> I grabbed the layout and the ini and dropped them into my conf dir
[15:45:54] <andypugh> Are you actually using motion.spindle-speed-rps-abs anywhere? Perhaps you can just comment it out in the other place and let XHC have it.
[15:46:59] <robin_sz> umm ... will I still be able to grab at it from the GUI to change rates?
[15:48:03] <robin_sz> I was kinda hoping to use pendant and/or GUI to fiddle with stuff
[15:48:47] <robin_sz> OK, I commented it out and it at least loads up without error now
[15:49:00] <robin_sz> almost tempted to drive back to factory to see if it works
[15:50:15] <robin_sz> there was another line I commented out in the XHC stuff ... half = halui.spindle.stop
[15:50:41] <dgarr> robin_sz: if you post your complete config ini and all hal files i can probably tell you what to do
[15:51:21] <robin_sz> andypugh's "comment out that line" at least let it load
[15:51:50] <robin_sz> where shoudl I post ?
[15:51:54] <robin_sz> pastebin?
[15:53:05] <dgarr> make a complete tar file of the entire config dir and the terminal messages that show the error
[15:59:16] <robin_sz> right ... and then?
[16:01:22] <dgarr> post it somewhere where i can study it
[16:01:34] <dgarr> or download it to study
[16:04:02] <robin_sz> ok, give me a minute
[16:10:55] <robin_remote> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ppc0tvsh0f64w2l/Vytek_xhc.tar.gz?dl=0
[16:11:06] <robin_sz> there you go
[16:11:22] <robin_sz> Mr Pughs commenting out fixed the spindle rpm error
[16:11:33] <andypugh> <ahem>!
[16:12:00] <robin_sz> for which I offer the usual tokens of appreciation
[16:12:29] <robin_sz> the spindly stop r problem remains
[16:30:51] <dgarr> robin_sz: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/robin_sz.txt
[16:32:58] <andypugh> robin_sz has gone to the factory
[16:47:06] <robin_remote> at factory now :)
[16:47:46] <JT-Shop> <dgarr> robin_sz: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/robin_sz.txt
[16:47:59] <JT-Shop> you might have missed dgarr's reply
[16:48:28] <robin_remote> I have it.
[16:48:36] <SpeedEvil> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flosstime/flosstime-worlds-first-smart-floss-dispenser?ref=popular firstworldproblems
[16:59:50] <robin_remote> hmmm
[17:00:13] <robin_remote> with the xhc include fikles removed ... it moves normally and homes normally
[17:00:45] <robin_remote> with the xhc files included, it moves sluggishly and then homes oddly, frequently exceeding the softlimits
[17:01:12] <robin_remote> hashtag notgood
[17:01:53] <robin_remote> SpeedEvil, I tried floss, not a fan of it to be honest, made me very sore
[17:02:20] <robin_remote> I prefer good old soft paper.
[17:02:47] <robin_remote> ;)
[17:03:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:07:06] <robin_remote> it seems ... with the XHC files included, the accellerations of the X and Y axes are messed up ... really really low .. off the handwheel it is relly sluggish
[17:11:36] <andypugh> Is it using ilowpass?
[17:14:30] <dgarr> robin_remote: you probably should not use the option for mpg_accels and APP = xhc-hb04-accels if you don't understand the consequences
[17:14:40] <dgarr> see some explanation http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/24-hal-components/26679-xhc-hb04-wireless-mpg-pendant-hal-module?start=260#63306
[17:15:20] <dgarr> and comments on overtravel here http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/24-hal-components/26679-xhc-hb04-wireless-mpg-pendant-hal-module?start=260#63338
[17:17:35] <dgarr> copying accels values from a sim to a real machine can have consequences
[17:19:08] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/raWM2uv 'I can't be bothered to do all that woodwork'
[17:21:22] <dgarr> robin_remote: mpg_accels = 1 2 2 200 (optional: reduced accelerations for all manual mode jogging) ref: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/README;h=5565c26bb0863b31ba0ae37ef581ac13eef8a562;hb=HEAD
[17:23:41] <dgarr> your ini has accels 400,400,100 and mpg_accels 1 2 20 so yes, they are quite a bit lower for manual jogging and homing
[17:30:52] <robin_remote> ok working .. thnaks fellas
[17:31:19] <robin_remote> that accel line is weird ... it seems to be accels in x y and z
[17:31:30] <robin_remote> im assuming in mm / s^2
[17:31:47] <robin_remote> just weird to have hardware related figure in there
[17:32:02] <robin_remote> percentage of regualr accel I could understand
[17:32:24] <robin_remote> I think I have some tuning to do on x axis servo though, its a little jerky
[17:32:27] <dgarr> hate to say read the manual but the README says (in machine_units/sec/sec like [AXIS_n]MAX_ACCELERATION)
[17:32:55] <robin_remote> yes, just weird
[17:33:04] <robin_remote> why does it mess up homing?
[17:33:19] <dgarr> read this http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/24-hal-components/26679-xhc-hb04-wireless-mpg-pendant-hal-module?start=260#63338
[17:34:02] <robin_remote> i'd accidentally got some low figures in there from an @inch@ version of the file, and it screwed up homing completely, which was weird
[17:34:17] <dgarr> distance = 0.5 * (velocity)**2 / (acceleration)
[17:34:59] <robin_remote> yep
[17:35:25] <robin_remote> im just kinda confused why a reduced accel for the handwheel would get involved in the homing
[17:35:34] <robin_remote> but meh, im easily confused
[17:36:22] <robin_remote> overall though, its is awesome thnaks dgarr :)
[17:36:54] <robin_remote> there is somethign really REALLY neat about seeing a 200kg gantry move from a handwheel .. wirelessly across the workshop :)
[17:37:27] <dgarr> It is probably better to start without using the mpg_accels feature and then try it only if the machine is too jerky with the jogwheel
[17:38:02] <robin_remote> yeah, its weird .. the X axis if you spin the wheel accels gently to a high speed and then slowly decels ..
[17:38:27] <robin_remote> but if i turn it slowly, it kind jerks and grinds .. I can see it overshoot and wobble
[17:38:34] <robin_remote> on each step
[17:39:12] <robin_remote> its like I know it could accel faster than that and stop faster than that on big moves
[17:39:20] <robin_remote> but its kinds jerky on small moves
[17:39:21] <dgarr> use halscope, example http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/24-hal-components/26679-xhc-hb04-wireless-mpg-pendant-hal-module?start=240
[17:41:05] <robin_remote> interesting
[17:41:28] <robin_remote> I think, I will try that 2mrw, as it is gone 11pm here
[17:41:57] <robin_remote> dgarr, thanks for your work on this, really, it is great
[17:42:19] <robin_remote> very impressed
[17:45:13] <Tom_itx> it is friday though
[17:45:55] <Tom_itx> i like the mpg accels feature quite a bit
[17:46:17] <robin_remote> yeah, it smoothed out my X axis a littler
[17:46:34] <robin_remote> im assuming it has no effect on planned motion
[17:47:01] <dgarr> yes, it should not alter planned motion
[17:48:13] <robin_remote> out of interest, might it not be better as a fraction of axis acceleration, so 100 say is @normal@ accel, 50 is half the regualr accel etc? thus decoupling the user interface from hardware values?
[17:48:22] <robin_remote> just asking ...
[17:49:13] <dgarr> it might be, but try to tell everyone to change their configs now (eg, too late for a better idea i think)
[17:49:32] <robin_remote> fair point :)
[17:49:47] <robin_remote> anyway, I can go home happy now, htnaks for the asistance
[17:49:49] <Tom_itx> it seems to buffer the mpg counts so on a coarse mpg setting it will travel after the mpg stops if you spin it
[17:51:52] <dgarr> Tom_itx: that is probably related to jog-vel-mode (man motion) there is an option for jogmode=normal or vnormal you could experiment with vnormal
[17:52:48] <Tom_itx> i don't normally do that but felt it should be tested
[17:53:29] <dgarr> normal: postion mode, the axis will move exactly regardless of how long it takes. Beware: the machine may keep moving after you stop rotating the jog wheel.
[17:53:53] <dgarr> vnormal: velocity mode, the axis will stop when the wheel stops. Beware: the amount moved per wheel detent may be less than specified if the machine velocity and acceleration cannot accomplish the move in time.
[17:54:14] <dgarr> ref: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/README;h=5565c26bb0863b31ba0ae37ef581ac13eef8a562;hb=HEAD
[17:54:15] <Tom_itx> right
[17:54:50] <Tom_itx> if you spin it chances are good you wouldn't know how far it should go anyway
[17:56:35] <dgarr> There are a lot of choices or tradeoffs to use it but overall it seems to work ok for a usb device and the price is right
[17:56:44] <Deejay> gn8
[18:02:08] <Tom_itx> dgarr, looks like axis.n.jog-vel-mode would be on a per axis basis
[18:08:25] <dgarr> it is per axis in motion but the xhc-hb04.tcl script assumes you want them all the same. it is easy to customize because the script sets the pin (setp) but does not connect the pin to a signal.
[18:08:58] <dgarr> so in an ini (after xhc-hb04.tcl) you can put HALCMD=setp axis.n.jog-vel-mode=0|1 for any axis
[18:10:13] <dgarr> you could also use [APPLICATION]APP=sim_pin axis.0.jog-vel-mode axis.1.jog-vel-mode to have a simple gui to experiment with
[18:10:41] <Tom_itx> i've got it wired to my mpg already
[18:10:49] <Tom_itx> liking it just fine :)
[18:11:30] <Tom_itx> i wasn't aware of that setting though, i may test it out but i think i like it the way i have it set
[18:11:53] <Tom_itx> i'm not moving tons of iron.. it's a sherline
[18:17:14] <robin_remote> vnormal seems better to me, and I am moving iron :)
[18:17:23] <robin_remote> right, going home
[18:33:46] <robin_sz> and back home
[18:35:36] <robin_sz> I can see I will have to play with tuning the X axis. the other axes seem OK, but X needs some attention
[18:41:55] <andypugh> Slow wheel jogs are a step-input sp can cause problems. A fast wheel jog takes the target point far enough away that the system is doing a move, not a move then stop then move.
[18:42:39] <robin_sz> its weird that the slow jog seems to have more accel than the fast jog
[18:43:02] <robin_sz> its not moving that fast on a spin, and it takes like 2 seconds to accel
[18:43:05] <robin_sz> 2 to decel
[18:43:25] <robin_sz> its a visible slow accel
[18:43:45] <robin_sz> but on step jogs, it shakes the gantry
[18:44:43] <robin_sz> it seems to have like .. I dunno 1ms^-2 on small steps
[18:44:55] <robin_sz> and 0.001 on big moves
[18:45:33] <robin_sz> rapids are 20m a minute I think on that machine
[20:17:19] <zeeshan|2> howdy
[20:17:54] <malcom2073_> Hi
[20:18:38] <Tom_itx> link for countersunk screw dimensions?
[20:19:03] <Tom_itx> iirc i thought i saw a good one here the other day
[20:31:48] <andypugh> Tom_itx: http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Screws/cap_screws.htm ?
[20:32:20] <andypugh> But I suspect not, as I doubt you care about BS metric screws>
[20:33:49] <andypugh> Sometimes it is useful to consider the old whitworth cap screws, they have much smaller heads. I don’t know why, as the hex heads were actually bigger.
[20:34:49] <zeeshan|2> machinist handbook
[20:34:50] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:37:26] <andypugh> Here we are, BS190 Whitworth bolts. Aren’t the heads big? http://www.steamsupplies.co.uk/product/bs190-pre-war-bsw-bolts-5-8-c3107/
[20:38:10] <ssi> andypugh: i have some BS and whitworth snapon wrenches that came out of my grandfather's toolbox
[20:39:54] <Tom_itx> saw that one andypugh
[20:40:01] <Tom_itx> i found what i was looking for
[20:40:41] <andypugh> Currentky I am mainly annoyed that the inch-size allen key set I got skips the one above 1/4” which is most prevalent on my lathe. I am using my 8mm.
[20:40:43] <Tom_itx> http://www.franciskirk.com/_includes/docs/pdf/87.pdf
[20:40:46] <Tom_itx> is fairly complete
[20:41:17] <andypugh> (err, no, probably not 8mm, let me check)
[20:41:18] <Tom_itx> 5/16
[20:41:43] <Tom_itx> 6mm maybe?
[20:42:26] <Tom_itx> no, it would be 8mm..
[20:42:49] <Tom_itx> 7.94mm
[20:42:51] <andypugh> 1/4 = 2/8 = 4/16 so, yes, 5/16..
[20:42:56] <andypugh> 8mm is very close
[20:43:25] <andypugh> My allen key set jumps to 6/16
[20:43:45] <Tom_itx> 3/8
[20:44:14] <andypugh> Yes, I can actualy do arithmetic, I just resent having to
[20:44:21] <Tom_itx> odd it skips 5/16
[20:44:27] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:45:54] <malcom2073_> Pool cue makers are nut
[20:45:56] <malcom2073_> nuts
[20:47:13] <andypugh> I think fractions just make life harder. I don’t really care about the units, I would be perfectly happy with decimal inches or decimal barleycorns (the units of shoe size) as long is it was obvious from the number which was bigger.
[20:47:34] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:47:50] <Tom_itx> it's funny what we take for granted
[20:50:12] <andypugh> 25/64 bigger or smaller than 3/8? Without doing any aritmetic, can you tell?
[20:50:56] <Tom_itx> bigger
[20:51:01] <andypugh> I get to bigger, but it took about that lone
[20:51:07] <andypugh> (long)
[20:51:19] <Tom_itx> was afk
[20:51:28] <Tom_itx> by 1/64
[20:51:45] <andypugh> 0.1234566667 bigger or smaller than 0.123458
[20:52:25] <Tom_itx> smaller
[20:52:33] <andypugh> (Actually that isn’t even fair)
[20:52:38] <Tom_itx> by a gnat's ass
[20:53:34] <Tom_itx> even with rounding it's .000001 smaller
[20:53:37] <andypugh> Yeah, the actual comparison to the first pair is .390625 to .375 and that takes milliseconds
[20:53:44] <roycroft> andypugh: it depends on what you use to measure the two
[20:54:36] <andypugh> You have a vernier that reads in fractions?
[20:56:20] <roycroft> coming into the discussion late, as usual, i don't really know the context
[20:56:43] <bz> that feeling when everything lines up virtually as precisely as envisioned on paper
[20:56:49] <roycroft> if someone is trying to advocate a decimal system as inherently "better" than a fractional system or vice versa i say bunk to both parties
[20:58:42] <andypugh> I disagree, in that a fractional system becomes an excercise in succsesive approximation.
[20:59:14] <roycroft> often it's useful to divide something in to halves, thirds, quarters, etc. recursively
[20:59:20] <roycroft> and fractions work great for that
[20:59:23] <andypugh> Though, in actuality, they are identical. In that one has a varying base, and the other is a successive sum of fixed bases
[20:59:42] <roycroft> note that i'm not discussing units at all here
[21:00:23] <andypugh> Yes, I am perfectly happy with half a cake. I don’t see that that makes it sensible to define one drill in my set as half the size of another one
[21:00:26] <roycroft> i think that the building construction industry in the us would adopt si units more readily if fractional meters were used commonly
[21:01:10] <roycroft> fractions are easier for people who have weak math backgrounds to comprehend than decimals
[21:01:24] <roycroft> fractions are taught in schools before decimal math in this country, at least
[21:01:24] <andypugh> Really?
[21:01:43] <andypugh> I don’t see that at all
[21:02:07] <roycroft> i deal with people whose eyes glaze over at the mere hint of using math all the time
[21:02:19] <roycroft> but they can comprehend half of something
[21:02:20] <andypugh> comparing decimals you only need to compare numbers until there is a difference.
[21:02:33] <roycroft> their brains stop functioning when they try to comprehend 0.5 of something though
[21:02:37] <andypugh> And then the bigger number is bigger
[21:02:53] <roycroft> but fractions are not perceived as "numbers" by non-math people
[21:03:07] <roycroft> they are perceived as quantities
[21:03:12] <andypugh> But to compare 25/64 to 3/8 you have to convert 3/8 to 24.64..
[21:03:15] <roycroft> numbers are abstract
[21:03:57] <andypugh> How do your non-math folk compare 25/64 to 3.8?
[21:03:57] <roycroft> a person can take a cake and divide it into eights without doing math
[21:03:59] <roycroft> cut in half
[21:04:03] <roycroft> cut each half in half
[21:04:07] <roycroft> and cut each quarter in half
[21:04:12] <roycroft> no math involved
[21:04:25] <roycroft> they don't, andypugh
[21:04:56] <andypugh> They have to be able to double the numbers, though, to do that without a cake to cut
[21:05:00] <roycroft> and their lives do not require that
[21:05:23] <roycroft> but if they don't have a cake to cut they have no reason to try to conceptualize 1/8
[21:05:33] <andypugh> Now, I am all in favour of using a cake any time I need to compare fractions, it seems like an _excellent_ idea
[21:05:41] <roycroft> yes
[21:05:47] <roycroft> it's quite approachable
[21:05:53] <roycroft> and generally quite tasty
[21:05:57] <Tom_itx> andypugh, i cut pie instead
[21:06:04] <roycroft> pies are more problematic
[21:06:14] <roycroft> because pies can be confused with pi
[21:06:21] <roycroft> and pi is a total mind blower
[21:06:44] <roycroft> keep in mind that the indiana state legislature came dangerously close to defining pi as 3
[21:06:46] <Tom_itx> yeah you'd be running in circles all night figuring that out
[21:06:57] <roycroft> and had no concept of why that would be a bad thing
[21:07:32] <andypugh> Not quite the same thing, but the time when I was paid to cut pies and cakes, the accountants and sales folks had determined that the optimal slice sizes for the stand pie and the cheesecake was 11 slices per pie for the pie, and 13 slices per cake for the cake.
[21:07:52] <roycroft> now that requires a template
[21:07:58] <andypugh> It was easier for the pie to cut to 12 and eat one…..
[21:08:07] <roycroft> and somebody has to do the math to generate the template one time
[21:08:19] <roycroft> because a pie cutter cannot be expected to do it
[21:08:32] <roycroft> yes, cutting to 12 and eating one is probably a much better solution
[21:08:38] <CaptHindsight> if the pie filling isn't firm it's hard to tell what fraction a piece has been cut to
[21:08:40] <Tom_itx> they're lucky to keep all digits in tact
[21:08:50] <andypugh> Actually, the professional cooks in the place could do 11 and 13 spot on every time
[21:09:08] <CaptHindsight> do you count what the cutter intended or do you measure after the filing stops running?
[21:09:18] <roycroft> and you have to then question if the accountant and sales folks like pie a lot and expect that an optimal 11 slices anticipates that the cutter will eat one
[21:09:34] <andypugh> But I was a schoolboy heading towards a physics degree, and couldn’t do it.
[21:09:43] <PetefromTn_> jeez man the shit you guys talk about here is mind numbing sometimes ;)
[21:09:53] <Tom_itx> then if you ask for a baker's dozen you get 13
[21:10:12] <Tom_itx> one place here gives you 14
[21:10:42] <CaptHindsight> is 14 pieces of pie more than 13?
[21:10:43] <roycroft> my expectation would be that the average pie cutter would cut 10 equal sized slices and have a remainder 11th slice that would be larger than the rest
[21:10:59] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, not if you count the whole
[21:11:27] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: so pie slices are measured by total mass or volume?
[21:11:40] <CaptHindsight> is the same true for pizza?
[21:11:57] <Tom_itx> pizza is supposed to be different slice sizes
[21:12:04] <Tom_itx> isn't it?
[21:12:23] <Tom_itx> then you can decide how hungry/full you are and not waste any
[21:12:32] <roycroft> pie slices should be measured by aggregate deliciousness
[21:13:19] <XXCoder> people just accept slices of pie?
[21:13:20] <XXCoder> dang
[21:13:40] <roycroft> no
[21:13:45] <roycroft> i always question my pie
[21:13:49] <roycroft> i never just accept it
[21:14:05] <andypugh> I found this fascinating, the various different tyopes of UK ounces, pounds, stones etc before we switched to SI. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/English_mass_units_short.jpg
[21:14:17] <roycroft> but speaking of pies, i just pulled a very nice scottish fisherman's pie out of the oven
[21:14:26] <roycroft> and i made proper tatties and neeps for it
[21:15:03] <andypugh> roycroft: Was the scottish fisherman upset at all when you meddled with his pie?
[21:15:29] <roycroft> he's 7000k away, so i don't care
[21:15:32] <roycroft> km
[21:15:51] <roycroft> and he's also probably sleeping
[21:15:53] <andypugh> (perhaps not, you described him as a nice scottish fisherman, he might have been too polite to object)
[21:16:09] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, you got a problem taling about food here?
[21:16:11] <Tom_itx> :)
[21:16:25] <roycroft> i have a lot of scots blood in me
[21:16:32] <PetefromTn_> why hell no
[21:16:33] <roycroft> and i tend to get along well with most scots
[21:16:41] <roycroft> glaswegians notwithstanding
[21:16:56] <PetefromTn_> speaking of food
[21:17:02] <andypugh> Hmm, while we are discussing inadequate systems of units, the fact that your statement could be construed as ambiguous shows that the english language is also deeply flawed
[21:17:11] <PetefromTn_> had a great meal tonight
[21:17:23] <roycroft> i would not necessarily consider that a bug
[21:17:36] <CaptHindsight> I'm diluting my blood with scotch
[21:17:41] <roycroft> grammatical ambiguity can lead to further conversation
[21:18:01] <roycroft> which i consider generally good
[21:18:22] <CaptHindsight> happy Halloween, g'nite everyone
[21:18:28] <PetefromTn_> gn8
[21:19:04] <roycroft> it's not halloween here yet
[21:19:21] <roycroft> but when it is, that's really the eve of samhain
[21:19:42] <PetefromTn_> we just got back from a family night and visisted the MYSTERY MANSION in Gatlinburgh Haunted house....
[21:19:52] <roycroft> interestingly though, our tradition of pumpkin carving stems from an old celtic tradition of carving swedes (turnips)
[21:19:58] <PetefromTn_> I think I soiled myself a couple times in there hehe
[21:20:02] <roycroft> which are the neeps in my tatties and neeps
[21:20:16] <andypugh> I _think_ thay Jurt Goëdel showed that any possible grammar will be ambigous. Or, at least that the sentence “this sentence is false” will always be gramatically correct for any possible set of rules of grammar
[21:20:25] <andypugh> (Kurt, not Jurt)
[21:21:30] <andypugh> I am going to have to hide in the house with the light out tomorrow, I suppose.
[21:22:10] <roycroft> my plan is to hang out in my shop with the music playing loudly enough that i cannot hear the doorbell ringing
[21:22:26] <andypugh> I refuse to accept having beggars come to my door, even if they are small and dressed strangely
[21:22:29] <roycroft> which is my annual plan
[21:23:01] <roycroft> i'd not mind the begging so much if i could give them something decent
[21:23:14] <roycroft> when i was a lad we would get homemade treats and eat them
[21:23:17] <PetefromTn_> I love trick or treaters
[21:23:23] <roycroft> now anything that's not factory packaged gets rejected
[21:23:31] <PetefromTn_> wish we got more of them here
[21:24:09] <roycroft> i live on a dead-end street, and my block is mostly empty nesters, so we don't get too many here
[21:24:29] <andypugh> I despise “Trick or Treat” as a ghastly American import, it simply didn’t happen when I was a kid. Though we did have “Mischief Night” on the 4th, which was a lot worse in principle, in that there was no chance to offer a bribe to not have your house set on fire.
[21:25:13] <roycroft> i don't despise it
[21:25:15] <PetefromTn_> I feel sorry for you man
[21:25:20] <roycroft> i just don't see any point to it
[21:25:31] <PetefromTn_> why does there need to be a point?
[21:25:38] <PetefromTn_> its just for fun for the kids
[21:26:00] <roycroft> and a nightmare for their parents
[21:26:03] <PetefromTn_> I know I enjoyed it when I was a kid and my kids are sure looking forward to it
[21:26:21] <PetefromTn_> Personally I love it I go with them and wear my wicked clown mask LOL
[21:26:34] <PetefromTn_> I just don't take any candy
[21:26:52] <PetefromTn_> and I try to watch out for my kids and other kids and cars etc. etc.
[21:26:53] <roycroft> i think the costuming part can be fun
[21:27:09] <roycroft> the concept of costumes for sugar is kind of weird
[21:27:16] <andypugh> Well, I never did it as a kid, and I don’t know how to handle other peoples kids. I just don’t have anything to do with kids, at all. They baffle and confuse me.
[21:27:26] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:27:45] <roycroft> a different tradition that still involves costumes and fun, but not loading up on concentrated sugar would be fine
[21:27:53] <Tom_itx> once they reach the age they finally get the hang of it... they're almost too big to go
[21:28:03] <andypugh> They are like people, but smaller and not finished. That’s wierd
[21:28:05] <PetefromTn_> when I lived in socal Halloween was a huge event and there were thousands of kids all around costumed up.
[21:28:10] <Tom_itx> last time mine went they brought home 15lbs of candy
[21:28:35] <PetefromTn_> around here it is cool too but not nearly as many kids
[21:28:45] <Tom_itx> andypugh, by the time we're finished we're nearly too old to move
[21:29:06] <roycroft> to me the halloween tradition in this country is just another corporate greed event
[21:29:11] <andypugh> I don’t mind Tricj Or Treat happenign in the US, but until about 10 years ago it was unheard-of in the UK.
[21:29:21] <roycroft> the costume and candy corporations promote it so that they can profit
[21:29:26] <andypugh> It’s new and I fear change :-)
[21:29:32] <roycroft> i don't fear change
[21:29:42] <Tom_itx> life is change
[21:29:46] <roycroft> i'm vehemently anti-corporatist though
[21:29:50] <andypugh> (I also fear strangers at the door)
[21:30:07] <Tom_itx> well, we're no stranger so if i come knocking...
[21:30:08] <roycroft> (and don't want to argue that, as this channel is the wrong venue)
[21:30:29] <roycroft> halloween has turned into pre-christmas here
[21:30:57] <Tom_itx> they've already stocked the shelves with christmas here
[21:31:05] <andypugh> Well, that’s not entirely true, but every visitor to my door other than the postman is an interaction with a strnager that I didn’t choose to have. And that bothers me
[21:31:08] <roycroft> except halloween stuff is long gone in the stores
[21:31:11] <PetefromTn_> think of it that there are thousands of businesses family run all over the country making some extra cash for their families over it
[21:31:15] <roycroft> and christmas stuff has been out for weeks
[21:31:37] <roycroft> except they're not, petefromtn_
[21:31:45] <PetefromTn_> sure they are
[21:31:52] <roycroft> a handful of large corporations are making extra cash from it
[21:32:00] <PetefromTn_> BS
[21:32:21] <roycroft> corporations who oursource most of their jobs
[21:32:35] <andypugh> I would quite like to drop christmas too. I don’t believe in the fundamental part of it.
[21:32:35] <roycroft> halloween supports the chinese economy
[21:32:51] <roycroft> i have a yule celebration each year, andypugh
[21:33:16] <Tom_itx> roycroft, 4th of july does...
[21:33:24] <roycroft> i also have a tradition going back over 30 years of not spending any money at all on black friday
[21:33:33] <andypugh> I would quite happily buy my family a midwinter gift, though. Winter is real, and something good in the middle is a nice idea.
[21:33:42] <PetefromTn_> gee you guys are a bunch of laughs
[21:33:44] <roycroft> i make sure my vehicle is fueled and i have enough food to get me through the day
[21:33:49] <andypugh> What is black friday?
[21:34:01] <roycroft> it's the day after thanksgiving in the us
[21:34:08] <Tom_itx> andypugh, day after thanksgiving
[21:34:11] <roycroft> thanksgiving being the 4th thursday in november
[21:34:15] <Jymmm> Now, THAT is what I like to see… a single match fire =)
[21:34:23] <roycroft> it's the biggest shopping day of the year
[21:34:35] <roycroft> the "official" start of the christmas shopping season
[21:34:51] <andypugh> Ah, I seem to recall that’s your only “bank holiday” ?
[21:34:56] <Tom_itx> after you've eaten way too much the day before you go out on that friday and spend way too much
[21:35:09] <roycroft> it's called that because it's the average day that american retailers' revenue is in the black for the year
[21:35:12] <Jymmm> roycroft: Oh, is THAT why I see xmas stuff in the store
[21:35:20] <roycroft> it's not a bank holiday
[21:35:28] <Jymmm> ...for the last 4 weeks
[21:35:38] <roycroft> we have several bank holidays, but not black friday
[21:35:55] <roycroft> a few years ago "cyber thursday" started
[21:35:58] <andypugh> I am being disingenous, they run big “black friday” sales in the UK too, they just don’t actually correlate to any other thing.
[21:36:08] <roycroft> where online retailers would do their christmas sales starting on thanskgiving day
[21:36:24] <roycroft> then brick and mortar retailers started opening on thanksgiving
[21:36:48] <roycroft> the optimist that i always am, i am encouraged this year though
[21:36:57] <Tom_itx> andypugh, some line up at the door and camp out waiting for them to open
[21:37:07] <andypugh> Those damned retailers, it’s like they only care about selling stuff and making money!
[21:37:52] <Wolf_> funny part is people wasting 2 days or more to save $100
[21:37:59] <roycroft> rei (recreational equipment incorporated), a large consumer cooperative selling camping/hiking/outdoor equipment are closing on black friday this year, and are giving employees the day off with pay
[21:38:27] <Jymmm> Phuk em all, I already bought my xmas gifts =)
[21:38:30] <roycroft> they are not totally shutting down their website, but there will be a splash page encouraging people to go outdoors and do something instead of shopping
[21:38:46] <roycroft> i've been an rei member since 1973
[21:39:02] <roycroft> 'cuz i'm like a commie and stuff
[21:39:22] <andypugh> Yeah, anyway, tomorrow I will turn the lights off and pretend to be out, because I don’t actually know what the rules are when kids knock on the door. I don’t know what they expect from me, or what the consequences are if I fail to comply. It is a contract where I have not read the rules.
[21:39:38] <PetefromTn_> good
[21:39:45] <roycroft> i have a "no soliciting" sign on my front door
[21:39:51] <Jymmm> REVERSE TRICK OR TREAT!!!
[21:39:53] <roycroft> i wonder if the trick-or-treaters will respect that
[21:40:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: REVERSE TRICK OR TREAT!!! That's where you GET (grab) candy from the ppl that knock on your door =)
[21:40:27] <Wolf_> put empty bowl at front door with sign “Please take only one”
[21:40:50] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah they will respect it alright. probably walk by the house with their kids saying.."Look kids a jackass lives there that is too cheap to buy a couple bags of freaking candy"!
[21:40:55] <roycroft> i can tell you all from experience that religious prostelytisers take no heed of the no soliciting sign
[21:41:09] <roycroft> and i've had to tell them countless time that bible thumping is a form of solicitation
[21:41:37] <roycroft> hmm
[21:41:38] <Jymmm> roycroft: Just hang a 5 point star outside your door
[21:41:38] <roycroft> you know
[21:41:52] <andypugh> roycroft: To be fair, from their point of view they are giving, not taking.
[21:41:58] <roycroft> this past summer the main water line feeding my house had a leak
[21:42:15] <roycroft> and i had to have someone dig a trench and install a new main water line
[21:42:32] <roycroft> the person who did that mostly tidied things up, but left a 5 gallon bucket full of rocks
[21:42:53] <roycroft> i'm thinking i have treats for the door knockers!
[21:43:07] <XXCoder> roycroft: just do satanic stuff anbd deco
[21:43:12] <XXCoder> dress up
[21:43:13] <andypugh> Are they nice rocks?
[21:43:14] <XXCoder> answer door
[21:43:22] <roycroft> they are river run
[21:43:29] <roycroft> so fairly smooth and round
[21:43:44] <Jymmm> roycroft: answer the door in your red fishnet stockings... they'll never come back again =)
[21:44:08] <roycroft> yes, i do live a fairly conservative part of town
[21:44:09] <XXCoder> answer almost nude, lubed all over, with 2 dilios in hand
[21:44:19] <andypugh> All these ideas involve me doing something as part of a contract I didn’t sign up for. I just want a normal might where nobody knocks on my door.
[21:44:20] <roycroft> a rocky horror costume would have a strong effect
[21:44:42] <roycroft> implied social contracts suck
[21:44:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: You know that cave you restored?
[21:44:50] <roycroft> especially when you don't understand them
[21:44:59] <PetefromTn_> andypugh you sure are a boring old dude ;)
[21:45:08] <Jymmm> lol
[21:45:49] <andypugh> Yeah, that’s my big thing, ToT is new to me, I never did it from the other side, so I don’t actually know what the “trick” word even means,
[21:46:34] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Yes and no.
[21:47:11] <roycroft> when i was growing up there was a concept of trick *for* treat with some of the old timers in my neighborhood
[21:47:12] <andypugh> I just like to opt-in to stuff, not have it foisted on me
[21:47:18] <PetefromTn_> its not rocket science man....buy a couple fiv dollar bags of candy, put it in a bowl by the door, when the kids come ringing open the door and say OOH YOU LOOK SO SCARY and stuff some candy in their damn pillow cases.....
[21:47:27] <roycroft> i.e. kids would be expected to do something to earn their treat
[21:47:40] <roycroft> some kind of song and dance thing or something similar
[21:47:50] <roycroft> simple begging for candy was right out
[21:47:57] <roycroft> we learned to avoid those houses
[21:47:58] <PetefromTn_> they DID something they dressed up in a costume what more do you want?
[21:47:58] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: So, the “Trick” word, where does that fit in?
[21:48:32] <roycroft> that's simple
[21:48:39] <roycroft> it means "have sex with me or give me candy"
[21:48:39] <roycroft> :)
[21:48:40] <PetefromTn_> you act like the few cents worth of candy you are giving them is a years salary or something/
[21:49:01] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i think it's more the pester he's not liking
[21:49:04] <andypugh> Carol Singing, I get. They sing a song, you act like they are in tune, you give them some money for the cause they are supporting, all very jolly and traditional, I know the rules.
[21:49:07] <PetefromTn_> andypugh you really are overthinking the thing man
[21:49:08] <XXCoder> where are you can you can buy candy for pennies lol
[21:49:28] <roycroft> don't forget the hot buttered rum, andypugh
[21:49:30] <roycroft> carolers ome
[21:49:33] <roycroft> come
[21:49:34] <PetefromTn_> where are you that you can't?
[21:49:39] <roycroft> you give them hot buttered rum
[21:49:43] <roycroft> to keep them warm
[21:50:01] <roycroft> and since you have to open your door to hear them and give them the beverage, you pour one for yourself as well
[21:50:07] <roycroft> that's a win-win situation
[21:50:16] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: cheapest can buy is bunch for $2.50 a pound but that still is in least 5 cent each
[21:50:27] <XXCoder> hmm comes down to definition of "pennies"
[21:50:28] <roycroft> children begging for candy is a lose-lose situation
[21:50:50] <PetefromTn_> Jeez what a bunch of buzz kills in here
[21:50:59] <Tom_itx> hah
[21:51:19] <roycroft> you pay money to cause parents you don't know grief
[21:51:28] <PetefromTn_> go ahead.....don't celebrate halloween....sit in your boring ass house behind your boring ass door and enjoy your misery!!
[21:51:43] <XXCoder> lol
[21:51:44] <PetefromTn_> we don't GAF
[21:51:47] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: No, it isn’t about the money, I have lots of money. It is that I don’t know what the phrase “Trick or Treat” means. It sounds like if I don’t give them a treat then they have an implied right to play a trick on me. and that seems wrong.
[21:51:57] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: I used to work at haunted house for over a decade
[21:52:11] <PetefromTn_> andypugh who gives a rats ass what it means?
[21:52:12] <XXCoder> I'm so burnt out that I doubt I can really enjoy oct 31st for long time
[21:52:35] <roycroft> to be a grammar nazi
[21:52:40] <PetefromTn_> I will be out scaring the local kids with my menacing clown mask and laughing with my kids....
[21:52:48] <roycroft> which i'm occasionaly wont to be
[21:52:58] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: I do because I _don’t_inderstand_this_implied_social_contract_because_nobody_ever_explained_it_to_me
[21:53:12] <XXCoder> people who lost limbs can REALLY scare kids.
[21:53:14] <roycroft> if they say "trick or treat" they're actually demanding that you either give them candy or play a trick on them
[21:53:26] <XXCoder> stuff fake limb with red stuff
[21:53:31] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: And good for you, I hope you have fun.
[21:53:32] <XXCoder> fling and it falls off
[21:53:37] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do you tip the waiter when you eat out?
[21:53:40] <roycroft> "trick if not treat" would be the correct phrase for their playing a trick on you if you refuse to hand over the sugar
[21:53:46] <PetefromTn_> andypugh you're lucky you are not in my neighborhood....if you boycott halloween here we burn your damn house down
[21:53:51] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[21:54:12] <Tom_itx> that is an implied contract as well
[21:54:22] <PetefromTn_> you bet your sweet ass it is
[21:54:33] <Tom_itx> although in some countries it's an insult
[21:54:40] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Ever been anywhere where the waiters are offended if you tip them?
[21:54:47] <roycroft> so if you don't want to give them treats, be prepared to trick them
[21:54:48] <andypugh> Yes, quite
[21:54:51] <Tom_itx> andypugh ^^
[21:54:55] <XXCoder> I'd consider burning house down to be quite a insult yes
[21:55:02] <roycroft> mayhap by pretending you're giving them treats when you're really not
[21:55:18] <roycroft> such as giving them a rock wrapped in a candy wrapper
[21:55:24] <zeeshan|2> good morning
[21:55:32] <XXCoder> roycroft: know whats better?
[21:55:38] <XXCoder> choculute covered rock
[21:55:52] <PetefromTn_> you guys are all a bunch of tech nerds who sit behind your computer screens poo pooing everyone elses customs and fun aren't ya...
[21:55:55] <roycroft> or "chocolate" covered rock?
[21:56:17] <PetefromTn_> just a bunch of freakin' bah humbugs in here
[21:56:19] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: like I said, I'm way burnt out on holloween stuff
[21:56:27] * Tom_itx is gonna egg PetefromTn_'s house tonight
[21:56:28] <andypugh> Tom_itx: In some places they take offence because they are doing a professional job they are paid for, and you are treating them like a menial dependent on your largesse.
[21:56:35] <XXCoder> ironically im going to halloween party tomorrow.
[21:56:46] <roycroft> where i live, halloween is actually not a big kids day any more
[21:56:59] <PetefromTn_> just a bunch of winey ass no account halloween boycotters
[21:57:08] <roycroft> it's more of a tween party night
[21:58:07] <zeeshan|2> holy cow pete is mad
[21:58:11] * zeeshan|2 scrolls up to see what happened
[21:58:25] <roycroft> the eugene police will be paying overtime to every cop they can get to work tomorrow
[21:58:38] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: seems like they are anti halloween
[21:58:39] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: bycotting and not taking part is worlds different
[21:58:41] <PetefromTn_> DAMN RIGHT I'm MAD
[21:58:43] <roycroft> and if we're lucky there will be no major fires/fights near campus
[21:58:45] <zeeshan|2> you will be happy to know that i have about 100lb of candy
[21:58:45] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: To turn it round, if I turned up at your house on the 5th Nov with a pretend body on a trolley made of clothes stuffed with newspaper, and said “penny for the guy” would you know what was going on?
[21:58:47] <zeeshan|2> to give away tomorrow!
[21:58:48] <zeeshan|2> im excited
[21:58:52] <zeeshan|2> i love seeing the kids dress up
[21:58:59] <zeeshan|2> especially the 4 year olds
[21:59:00] <zeeshan|2> they're so cute
[21:59:06] <zeeshan|2> dressed like dorks haha
[21:59:06] <roycroft> guy fawlkes day!
[21:59:23] <XXCoder> any of you guys ever went to burning man camp?
[21:59:24] <PetefromTn_> andypugh probably not but I would TRY to figure it out and participate not hide behind my damn door!!
[21:59:44] <zeeshan|2> i would nevre dress up
[21:59:47] <zeeshan|2> cause it's just not me
[21:59:52] <zeeshan|2> but i dont participate in it
[21:59:57] <XXCoder> see, another one boycotting
[21:59:58] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, friday night road rage kickin in?
[22:00:00] <XXCoder> :P
[22:00:09] <PetefromTn_> I'm PISSED!!!!
[22:00:13] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[22:00:15] <Tom_itx> no shit sherlock
[22:00:23] <XXCoder> lol
[22:00:45] <norias> fun machining story today
[22:00:52] <Tom_itx> we're dealing with a multi cultural channel here... simmer down a bit
[22:01:00] <norias> i was messing with a haas with a probe on it
[22:01:01] <zeeshan|2> this is AMERICA
[22:01:05] <zeeshan|2> nothing is multicultural
[22:01:05] <norias> a haas
[22:01:12] <norias> in metric mode
[22:01:13] <PetefromTn_> like hell
[22:01:19] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-lab, this from a canuck
[22:01:20] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: usa is multicultural
[22:01:21] <norias> apparently... the probe only does inches
[22:01:24] <ssi> zeeshan|2: what is america
[22:01:26] <ssi> toronto?
[22:01:29] <XXCoder> I'm quite different from most americans
[22:01:34] <norias> damnit, fune
[22:01:35] <XXCoder> yet I am an american
[22:01:38] <norias> er, fine
[22:01:38] <PetefromTn_> you can say that shit again
[22:01:40] <roycroft> i am too, xxcoder
[22:01:43] <zeeshan|2> sorry americans
[22:01:56] <zeeshan|2> 2 days ago i got offered a job in california
[22:01:58] <norias> so, we're debating if america is multicultural?
[22:02:02] <zeeshan|2> after much delibrating
[22:02:06] <roycroft> no
[22:02:08] <zeeshan|2> i decided i wouldnt live in a shit hole like usa
[22:02:08] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[22:02:10] <Tom_itx> norias, no
[22:02:13] * zeeshan|2 hides
[22:02:13] * zeeshan|2 hides
[22:02:14] * zeeshan|2 hides
[22:02:16] <norias> oh, ok
[22:02:20] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: calfornia is funny state
[22:02:20] <roycroft> we're discussing how stupid americans are, regardless of their cultural background
[22:02:21] <ssi> zeeshan|2: probably wise
[22:02:34] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[22:02:37] <ssi> you wouldn't know what to do with all the freedom :D
[22:02:38] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, steam rises
[22:02:39] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: now, if you decided to live at northwest part of WA...
[22:02:42] <zeeshan|2> i really love canada
[22:02:44] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[22:02:53] <roycroft> at least canadia has a hunk for a prime minister now
[22:02:55] <zeeshan|2> our prime minister is a good looking guy too
[22:03:00] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:03:03] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: no more harper woot
[22:03:06] <roycroft> all the ladies from the us want to move up to there now
[22:03:14] <ssi> I bet that'll do wonders for your economy
[22:03:18] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[22:03:20] <zeeshan|2> it's expected
[22:03:20] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[22:03:21] <zeeshan|2> i voted for him
[22:03:25] <zeeshan|2> he's gonna drown our economy
[22:03:29] <zeeshan|2> every liberal party does
[22:03:36] <ssi> but how? he's so good looking
[22:03:36] <zeeshan|2> then next term the conservatives will come clean it up
[22:03:37] <roycroft> yeah
[22:03:44] <roycroft> it's just like in the us
[22:03:46] <PetefromTn_> hehehe
[22:03:47] <zeeshan|2> but we need to bring canada back to its glory
[22:03:59] <PetefromTn_> BACK to it's Glory?
[22:03:59] <roycroft> liberals spend the economy into suckiness
[22:04:03] <zeeshan|2> and the liberals will do just that
[22:04:05] <zeeshan|2> yes PetefromTn_
[22:04:07] <andypugh> Lets count countries that have beaten the US in a war, we have Canada and….. (bear with me :-)
[22:04:10] <XXCoder> glory is overrated
[22:04:10] <zeeshan|2> harper brought bill c51
[22:04:11] <roycroft> tories tax cut the economy into suckiness
[22:04:16] <zeeshan|2> which invades everyones privacy
[22:04:20] <zeeshan|2> kinda like your homeland security act
[22:04:35] <zeeshan|2> the first thing liberals have promised is abolishing bill c51
[22:04:40] <zeeshan|2> 75% canada supports abolishing it
[22:04:41] <roycroft> too bad jack layton passed
[22:04:49] <PetefromTn_> Never been to Canada....Flew over it a couple times......did not see any good reason to land.
[22:04:53] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:04:56] <bz> poutine
[22:05:05] <zeeshan|2> you're missing out man
[22:05:12] <PetefromTn_> doubt that
[22:05:17] <ssi> i want to go to canada
[22:05:21] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, so you landed in a swamp?
[22:05:21] <XXCoder> me too
[22:05:27] <bz> me too
[22:05:29] <zeeshan|2> come stay with me
[22:05:31] <zeeshan|2> all of you
[22:05:36] <PetefromTn_> you could piss out the window on the trip over
[22:05:36] <bz> do you have poutine?
[22:05:40] <ssi> pajama party at zeeeee's house
[22:05:43] <PetefromTn_> might rain on zeeshan
[22:05:43] <zeeshan|2> no, but i can take you to an excellent place
[22:05:45] <andypugh> The trouble with Canada is you could spend months there and wonder what you had missed, it’s so totallly huge.
[22:05:49] <roycroft> mulcair is a pretty weak leader
[22:05:56] <ssi> the trouble with canada is it's too far north
[22:05:59] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: thats why i love it!
[22:06:04] <roycroft> and the ndp lost almost all their gains from the last election
[22:06:05] <ssi> north means cold
[22:06:07] <ssi> and cold means suck
[22:06:08] <XXCoder> andypugh: 2nd largest yet population equals one of states in usa
[22:06:15] <zeeshan|2> the two things i want to see in usa are
[22:06:18] <PetefromTn_> YES COLD MEANS SUCK!!!
[22:06:18] <zeeshan|2> yosemite national park
[22:06:27] <ssi> zeeshan|2: yosemite is effing amazing
[22:06:32] <zeeshan|2> (hopefully yogi bear greets me)
[22:06:32] * roycroft lived right next to the canandian border for a long time
[22:06:33] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: my grandfather immgated from canada
[22:06:39] <roycroft> i don't consider canada too far north
[22:06:42] <ssi> yogi isn't at yosemite
[22:06:45] <ssi> he's in jellystone
[22:06:48] <zeeshan|2> whoops :)
[22:06:48] <XXCoder> too bad about 2 generation limit, I dont have canada citzenship
[22:06:52] <roycroft> i could ride my bike to canada in an hour from where i lived
[22:06:59] <zeeshan|2> the second place i'd like to visit is louisana
[22:07:04] <ssi> ...why? :P
[22:07:06] <zeeshan|2> food
[22:07:09] <roycroft> and i'm not talking motorcycle
[22:07:10] <PetefromTn_> I'll bet there would be some bears there to greet you
[22:07:24] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: bears is less dangerous there
[22:07:28] <XXCoder> compared to moose
[22:07:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah uh huh
[22:07:38] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I can get good cajun food in atlanta
[22:07:39] <roycroft> there would be beavers, not bears
[22:07:43] <ssi> and that means I don't have to go to louisiana
[22:07:47] <ssi> which is good because louisiana blows
[22:07:52] <zeeshan|2> ssi you're close to lousiana
[22:07:56] <PetefromTn_> been to Louisiana...
[22:07:56] <roycroft> and looneys
[22:07:59] <ssi> yeah I could be there in two hours
[22:07:59] <zeeshan|2> fuck i lied
[22:08:00] <PetefromTn_> not going back
[22:08:01] <zeeshan|2> theres 3 things
[22:08:03] <ssi> don't really want to be tho :)
[22:08:10] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to go to tornado alley and see some ef5's
[22:08:16] <PetefromTn_> hot and sticky without the beach really
[22:08:18] <XXCoder> I visited or lived at almost all western states
[22:08:19] <ssi> lol
[22:08:23] <XXCoder> but zero outside usa
[22:08:32] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: lucky
[22:08:34] <roycroft> i lived in bellingham
[22:08:35] <zeeshan|2> i've only been to a few states
[22:08:42] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: no, no I was not.
[22:08:45] <roycroft> vancover was closer than seattle for dinner/concerts/etc.
[22:08:46] <PetefromTn_> they let you in?
[22:08:48] <XXCoder> not a nice way to do so
[22:08:50] <roycroft> vancouver
[22:08:58] <andypugh> I quite like cold places
[22:09:04] <zeeshan|2> florida, tx, ny, pa, oh, il, maine, ca
[22:09:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah like inside your house
[22:09:11] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: helped a lot on understanding many differenmt cultures though
[22:09:12] <andypugh> Don’t know why.
[22:09:17] <PetefromTn_> behind the door from the trick or treaters
[22:09:18] <roycroft> vancouver has a maritime climate
[22:09:23] <roycroft> it's not very cold there
[22:09:27] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: ROFL
[22:09:29] <zeeshan|2> nice comeback
[22:09:49] <roycroft> it rarely gets to 30 degrees, but it also averages about 10 degrees in the winter, and rarely gets below freezing
[22:09:49] <XXCoder> roycroft: which vancouver? lol
[22:09:55] <PetefromTn_> the only thing good in Canada is
[22:10:01] <zeeshan|2> ZEESHAN!
[22:10:04] <roycroft> vancouver is vancouver bc
[22:10:05] <zeeshan|2> thank you :)
[22:10:07] <PetefromTn_> my DMM DRIVES AND MOTORS that are on their way!!
[22:10:08] <roycroft> vancouver wa is vancouver wa
[22:10:12] <XXCoder> I used to live at vancouver, WA. I used to say this: Vancouver, WA, NOT BC, not DC
[22:10:15] <zeeshan|2> nice
[22:10:19] <roycroft> and you know that
[22:10:36] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Your Canadian drives and motors?
[22:10:36] <XXCoder> roycroft: theres another vancouver city few hours north of vancouver. LOL
[22:10:50] <zeeshan|2> isn't wa a shithole
[22:10:52] <PetefromTn_> no my CHINESE by way of CANADA drives and motors hehe
[22:10:54] <zeeshan|2> i always see it in cops episodes
[22:10:56] <roycroft> i know vancouver wa well
[22:11:00] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: east sure
[22:11:05] <roycroft> i live in eugene these days (i have for over 20 years)
[22:11:15] <XXCoder> most of west WA is pretty awesome
[22:11:18] <roycroft> but when i first moved here i had several clients in bellingham still
[22:11:25] <roycroft> i did a lot of commuting
[22:11:34] <PetefromTn_> gotta pick my VFD now
[22:11:38] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: you should visit parks around here, like ape cave
[22:11:45] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: youre in wa?
[22:11:49] <PetefromTn_> so far nothing better price/options than the Hitachi WJ200
[22:11:51] <XXCoder> being good reliable boots and 2 led flashlights per person
[22:11:51] <roycroft> 600km commute each way :(
[22:11:54] <XXCoder> *bring
[22:11:57] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: yeaj
[22:12:01] <zeeshan|2> where
[22:12:07] <XXCoder> tacoma now
[22:12:14] <roycroft> you're in tacoma, right?
[22:12:16] <roycroft> yeah
[22:12:22] <ssi> shit it got cold tonight :(
[22:12:23] <XXCoder> tacoma used to be high crime but better since then
[22:12:27] <roycroft> the armpit of the northwet
[22:12:29] <zeeshan|2> wow you got a lot of nice parks
[22:12:32] <PetefromTn_> I know right...
[22:12:40] <PetefromTn_> pretty chilly for just the end of Octo
[22:12:45] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you wanna see an ef5 google greensburg ks
[22:12:48] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: yeah. there is quite literal hundred park patghs
[22:12:51] <ssi> I'm in shorts and a tshirt, out in the hangar working
[22:12:51] <Tom_itx> or haysville tornado
[22:12:53] <roycroft> and in truth i have to say tacoma doesn't stink so much any more
[22:12:57] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: ive seen a lot in pics
[22:12:58] <zeeshan|2> and videos
[22:12:58] <Tom_itx> both are record holders
[22:13:00] <ssi> and the door is open, and it's getting COLD, FAST
[22:13:07] <zeeshan|2> but i want to experience one in real life
[22:13:09] <XXCoder> roycroft: still some problems but much better
[22:13:09] <Tom_itx> those are in my back yard
[22:13:10] <zeeshan|2> i wouldn't mind dieing in one
[22:13:11] <PetefromTn_> we went to a kickass haunted house tonight in Gatlinburh
[22:13:12] <roycroft> every since they put the cork in the weyerhauser smokestack
[22:13:14] <zeeshan|2> good way to go out
[22:13:24] <XXCoder> 90s to early 00s was bad
[22:13:26] <Tom_itx> wanna be impailed with a 2 x 4?
[22:13:32] <zeeshan|2> as long as it's quick
[22:13:40] <zeeshan|2> and im 1000 feet in the air
[22:13:45] <Jymmm> ssi: And I'm sitting in front of the fire I just lit all warm and toasty like =)
[22:13:51] <zeeshan|2> and i get to see the eye :)
[22:14:02] <Tom_itx> Jymmm with a gas mask on until it burns clean?
[22:14:19] <zeeshan|2> im looking at a map
[22:14:20] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Not at all, dont even smell anything
[22:14:25] <zeeshan|2> fak canada does have a lot of land
[22:14:26] <PetefromTn_> we were talking about lighting a bonfire in the fire pit tomorrow night
[22:14:38] <zeeshan|2> the drive i did from ontario to newfoundland
[22:14:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: second largest like I said
[22:14:44] <zeeshan|2> would mean i could drive through 20 states
[22:14:48] <zeeshan|2> in the same distance
[22:14:49] <roycroft> sunday is samhain
[22:14:54] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ some were talking about lighting one in your living room
[22:14:54] <roycroft> that would be the night for the firepit
[22:15:07] <PetefromTn_> I would if I could
[22:15:09] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: whatcha dressing up as tomorrow
[22:15:15] <zeeshan|2> a pissed of pirate?
[22:15:15] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:15:16] <PetefromTn_> wicked clown
[22:15:24] <zeeshan|2> what about kids
[22:15:25] <Tom_itx> is that tomorrow?
[22:15:28] <PetefromTn_> shit even scares me
[22:15:40] <Jymmm> thats AL clowns
[22:15:43] <Jymmm> ALL*
[22:16:08] <zeeshan|2> if i dress up like anything
[22:16:14] <zeeshan|2> it might be like a fanuc robotic arm
[22:16:16] <zeeshan|2> but no ones gonna get it
[22:16:17] <zeeshan|2> :[
[22:16:26] <ssi> ahahaha i will
[22:16:33] <roycroft> you can dress up as yourself
[22:16:35] <roycroft> http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/halloween-costumes-18371
[22:16:35] <PetefromTn_> I need to get a cape or something
[22:17:10] <Jymmm> https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/priest-costume11-e1268948352798.jpg?w=680
[22:17:27] <roycroft> capes are important
[22:17:38] <roycroft> i watched supergirl monday night
[22:17:39] <PetefromTn_> gotta have a cape
[22:17:49] <andypugh> UK is down in 78th place of countries by land area. But at least we beat Uganda.
[22:17:52] <roycroft> she made a costume without a cape and when she starte flying she crashed
[22:18:00] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: move to canada
[22:18:00] <ChuangTzu> i saw a nice ski free yeti costume
[22:18:03] <roycroft> the cape is essential for stability when flying
[22:18:03] <zeeshan|2> its practically uk
[22:18:04] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:18:22] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: No need, we sort-of own you anyway :-)
[22:18:22] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, the cool thing about tornados over hurricanes is their somewhat unpredictable
[22:18:32] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: yep
[22:18:37] <zeeshan|2> and the thing is videos wont show you how fast they are
[22:18:46] <zeeshan|2> they're usually travelling at 50 mph
[22:18:46] <Tom_itx> here and gone in minutes
[22:18:54] <zeeshan|2> and they change direction like youre saying
[22:18:56] <zeeshan|2> wildly
[22:18:58] <ChuangTzu> does canada get as many tornados as usa?
[22:18:59] <Tom_itx> although the haysville one was on the ground for over 45 min
[22:19:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Is this your costume? http://images.esellerpro.com/2372/I/185/976/FLadiesNaughtyNun.jpg
[22:19:04] <zeeshan|2> and you'll only feel the magnitude of that in real life, not in videos
[22:19:21] <Tom_itx> damn right
[22:19:53] <zeeshan|2> my freiends work had a guy dressed up like caityln jenner
[22:19:54] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:19:57] <PetefromTn_> Tornadoes scare the shit out of me honestly
[22:19:59] <roycroft> canada does not, chuangtzu
[22:20:00] <zeeshan|2> i think the joke was on him though :)
[22:20:04] <roycroft> nor as many hurricanes
[22:20:08] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: me too
[22:20:11] <zeeshan|2> but they're SICK!!
[22:20:18] <ChuangTzu> nor as many earthquakes i'd imagine
[22:20:27] <PetefromTn_> been in several hurricanes...we threw a party
[22:20:27] <zeeshan|2> earthquakes are awesome too
[22:20:28] <roycroft> we get a fair amount of funnel clouds here in western oregon
[22:20:34] <PetefromTn_> tornadoes...not so much
[22:20:35] <Tom_itx> it's not quite as bad here because it's not hilly and we can see them coming most of the time
[22:20:36] <roycroft> but rarely do the touch down
[22:20:41] <zeeshan|2> but would be cooler if the earth beneath you was splitting by 50 feet
[22:20:45] <zeeshan|2> but usually thats not the case :P
[22:20:50] <ChuangTzu> we used to get days off of school for hurricanes in highschool and middle school
[22:21:00] <roycroft> except that just happened in wyoming
[22:21:00] <ChuangTzu> so we would ride our bikes to the beach
[22:21:05] <roycroft> but not because of an earthquake
[22:21:12] <roycroft> it just happened
[22:21:12] <PetefromTn_> SURFS UP DUDE!!
[22:21:18] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:21:32] <PetefromTn_> we used to go surfing just before the storm hit
[22:22:04] <andypugh> In Germany (or at least in some towns) they hav Karnival. It was amusing to be on the U-Bahn (tram) going to work with lots of other people going to work dressed as wasps and elves and suchlike, but all wearing their bored “going to work” faces
[22:22:17] <roycroft> http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stories/massive-crack-earth-opens-suddenly-wyomings-bighorn-mountains
[22:22:24] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: very rare
[22:22:38] <zeeshan|2> that is BAD ASS
[22:22:40] <zeeshan|2> though.
[22:23:07] <PetefromTn_> man I am getting excited my CNC lathe is FINALLY going to be coming to life here soon!!
[22:23:26] <roycroft> i hope it doesn't od on candy
[22:23:47] <roycroft> it would suck to have to tell your cnc lathe to run around the block five times so it can settle down enough to be able to do work
[22:23:51] <zeeshan|2> pete yuou're gonna beat me :{
[22:23:55] <zeeshan|2> im working on the rx7
[22:23:59] <PetefromTn_> doubt it
[22:24:09] <PetefromTn_> I am slow as shit with this stuff
[22:24:12] <paulliebenberg> zeeshan, you are in Van?
[22:24:17] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:24:20] <zeeshan|2> ontario
[22:24:25] <zeeshan|2> hamilton
[22:24:35] <paulliebenberg> Nice
[22:24:48] <zeeshan|2> you?
[22:24:49] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: My CNC lathe is lagging yours. I painted some of the patterns the right colour today (red(
[22:24:54] <zeeshan|2> you must be in bc cause youre on shawcable :)
[22:25:08] <paulliebenberg> Vanc Island!
[22:25:23] <zeeshan|2> me and my fiance have been considering moving to bc
[22:25:27] <zeeshan|2> but i dont wanna lose all my friends
[22:25:34] <zeeshan|2> and have to restart making my contacts for customers and stuff
[22:25:37] <zeeshan|2> but boy is that place beautiful.
[22:25:47] <PetefromTn_> andypugh I still gotta finish some painting of the carcass
[22:25:56] <roycroft> as a brit, i'd like your perspective, andypugh
[22:26:15] <roycroft> which is worse: a president getting a blow job from an intern or a prime minister getting a blow job from a dead pig?
[22:26:53] <andypugh> And if Fusion 360 actually took note of the retract height I would have finished another, but it doesn’t see retract height as a hard limit, and I am really pushing the machine envelope, so it stopped half way trhough with a Z limit exception
[22:27:01] <paulliebenberg> It is pretty nice out here. I have a Sis in Ottawa and a cuz in Windsor. Ontario is huge!
[22:27:18] <zeeshan|2> haha ottawa and windsor are like
[22:27:20] <zeeshan|2> 1000km apart
[22:27:29] <zeeshan|2> or 600 miles for you americans :)
[22:27:34] <zeeshan|2> something liekt hat
[22:27:41] <zeeshan|2> 621 miles
[22:28:17] <andypugh> roycroft: It’s wierd being British, we used to be super-important in the world, and haven’t quite got used to beingi rrelevant yet.
[22:28:34] <roycroft> i'm not sure you're irrelevant
[22:28:42] <PetefromTn_> you brits make some damn fine airguns tho....
[22:28:56] <roycroft> but your national electicness is not as globally endearing as it used to be
[22:29:34] <zeeshan|2> where is britian?
[22:29:41] <zeeshan|2> isn't it part of africa
[22:29:48] * zeeshan|2 tried to act american
[22:29:56] <PetefromTn_> you failed
[22:29:58] <zeeshan|2> :D
[22:30:04] <roycroft> i'll let you know when we go to war with britain
[22:30:12] <zeeshan|2> why would you go to war with britian
[22:30:12] <roycroft> war is how usians learn geography
[22:30:13] <zeeshan|2> they got nothing
[22:30:23] <roycroft> why did we go to war with iraq?
[22:30:27] <zeeshan|2> oil
[22:30:29] <zeeshan|2> uk got nothin
[22:30:35] <roycroft> except we didn't take the oil
[22:30:39] <zeeshan|2> lies
[22:30:44] <roycroft> and there's lots of north sea oil
[22:30:58] <PetefromTn_> because I said so
[22:31:21] <andypugh> Even we get confused by exactly what “Great Britain”, “The UK”, “England” , “The British Isles” mean.
[22:31:37] <roycroft> that's easy
[22:31:42] <zeeshan|2> when someone mentions uk
[22:31:44] <zeeshan|2> i think of first my sister
[22:31:50] <roycroft> uk = england, scotland, wales, northern ireland
[22:31:51] <zeeshan|2> then really nice precision levels
[22:31:51] <zeeshan|2> :)
[22:31:57] <roycroft> great britain = england, scotland, wales
[22:32:06] <zeeshan|2> and then concorde, the best thing to come out of uk
[22:32:14] <roycroft> the british isles = great britain, isle of man, ireland
[22:32:25] <PetefromTn_> jag XK
[22:32:37] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: how are rolls royce prospects there for engineering
[22:32:45] <paulliebenberg> nice choccys too.
[22:32:52] <roycroft> although some count orkney, the shetlands, and the hebrides as part of great britain
[22:33:00] <roycroft> others count them as part of the british isles
[22:33:16] <roycroft> so i guess that part is a bit confusing
[22:33:22] <roycroft> or befuddled at least
[22:33:28] <PetefromTn_> to me it is just where the weird guy Andypugh lives....
[22:33:29] <paulliebenberg> A.d Downton Abbey!
[22:33:37] <zeeshan|2> the guy who sits at his home
[22:33:40] <zeeshan|2> and doesn't give candy/
[22:33:42] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: and Benny Hill
[22:33:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah but poor benny's dead
[22:33:54] <andypugh> (“Great Britain” is purely geographical, it is the biggest island, “The UK” is England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (and the channel islands), and “The British Isles” includes both Great Britain and Ireland, but excludes the Channel Islands. Is that clear? )
[22:33:57] <Jymmm> and Mr Bean
[22:34:12] <PetefromTn_> and Austin Powers
[22:34:19] <zeeshan|2> isnt bond from uk too
[22:34:20] <zeeshan|2> yes he is
[22:34:23] <roycroft> sure
[22:34:23] <zeeshan|2> mi6
[22:34:28] <roycroft> so what about the isle of man?
[22:34:31] <PetefromTn_> Can
[22:34:39] <roycroft> and what about the orkneys, shetlands, and hebrides/
[22:34:39] <PetefromTn_> Can't wait to see the new one
[22:34:43] <zeeshan|2> isle of man is probably the main reason i want to visit uk
[22:34:45] <roycroft> none of them are channel islands
[22:34:57] <PetefromTn_> Spectre
[22:34:59] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, that's a scheduled date night
[22:35:01] <zeeshan|2> maybe andypugh will let me borrow his bike to ride there :)
[22:35:11] <PetefromTn_> we goin on a date?
[22:35:19] <Tom_itx> not with me you ain't
[22:35:19] <PetefromTn_> ew
[22:35:28] <zeeshan|2> ill go for a date with you guys
[22:35:29] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[22:35:39] <roycroft> you're into three-legged people, zeeshan|2?
[22:35:48] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:35:50] <andypugh> The Isle of Man is special. I am not sure quite where they fit in the Venn diagram :-)
[22:35:52] <zeeshan|2> but im comfortable with my sexuality
[22:36:02] <roycroft> i think it's part of great britain
[22:36:09] <roycroft> but yes, it's a bit of a conundrum
[22:36:09] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan likes other hobbits
[22:36:35] <zeeshan|2> only if they're of the opposite sex :)
[22:36:45] <andypugh> The IoM is well worth a visit. Just enough to see to fill a week, and a very nice place to be
[22:37:05] <PetefromTn_> I would like to see picadilly circus
[22:37:06] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: ive been to so many places in the uk
[22:37:17] <zeeshan|2> guess what is the most memorable place for me?
[22:37:19] <zeeshan|2> dover. lol
[22:37:23] <roycroft> manx is an interesting language
[22:37:28] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Really? Why?
[22:37:38] <PetefromTn_> I dunno its just cool
[22:37:49] <PetefromTn_> plus they filmed American Werewolf in London there
[22:38:02] <andypugh> You know it’s not like a real circus, right?
[22:38:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[22:38:31] <Tom_itx> i saw where they filmed parts of forest gump
[22:38:38] <andypugh> I see it as a traffic bottleneck that used to be in my way on the ride to college....
[22:38:49] <PetefromTn_> you would
[22:38:57] <roycroft> i've changed planes in heathrow, but that's my only uk experience
[22:39:12] <andypugh> But I guess it is an interesting place if you stop to look
[22:39:15] <roycroft> if i were to visit england and were only able to go to one city/region, i'm not sure where i would go
[22:39:20] <PetefromTn_> never been to europe
[22:39:25] <roycroft> there are so many places i would want to see
[22:39:41] <andypugh> roycroft: That would depend on what you like.
[22:39:55] <Tom_itx> pretty sure i would avoid france
[22:40:08] <roycroft> i like history and modern culture and natural geography and technology
[22:40:16] <andypugh> France is lovely, nearly all of it
[22:40:24] <roycroft> so what i like doesn't narrow it down at all
[22:40:55] <roycroft> much of the western midlands is national parks
[22:41:01] <roycroft> so that would be appealing
[22:41:06] <Jymmm> roycroft: The parking lot of the intel museum?
[22:41:40] <roycroft> the thing is
[22:41:51] <roycroft> england is smaller than california, but has 2000+ years of history
[22:42:17] <roycroft> i think one could drop me anywhere in the country and i'd find a lot of interseting things to do
[22:42:32] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
[22:42:38] <roycroft> ciaoder
[22:42:40] <PetefromTn_> Happy Halloween
[22:42:53] <roycroft> happy samhain eve!
[22:42:54] <PetefromTn_> get some damn candy for the kids
[22:43:11] <Tom_itx> then none will show
[22:43:13] <Jymmm> and dip it in citric acid
[22:43:25] <roycroft> as should be apparent to most here, i'd rather be dropped in scotland than england
[22:43:29] <roycroft> (no offense)
[22:43:48] <roycroft> but i'd have a great trip no matter where i got dropped
[22:43:58] <roycroft> unless i got dropped too hard and hurt my head
[22:44:22] <andypugh> roycroft: Do a google images search on “Yorkshire Dales”. That’s where I feel happy
[22:44:44] <roycroft> yorkshire would be fun, just because the language is so interseting
[22:45:09] <roycroft> and there are all of those war of the roses sites to fisit
[22:45:11] <roycroft> visit
[22:46:40] <roycroft> the yorkshire dialect retains the distinction between singular and plural pronouns, and drops the definite article much of the time
[22:47:02] <andypugh> It’s where I am from, my parent’s house, built about 1450: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Slaithwaite,+Huddersfield,+West+Yorkshire+HD7+5XA/@53.613537,-1.916872,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s954803!2e1!3e10!6s%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2F8c5Hcx_M3W-MS9-Mzl7-d_Pn5Kf7fH3GzfMPbzzUU9JmsHH7Z69j2IOm7fAWBz3QfR70jUXaWhIZpgs9-ShfiwrBTQOHc24%3Dw203-h270!7i1536!8i2048!4m2!3m1!1s0x487bc463fda5f7b7:0x987d1f79610c
[22:47:06] <roycroft> the yorkshire dales look really interesting
[22:47:16] <roycroft> ack
[22:47:20] <roycroft> can you shorten that?
[22:47:50] <andypugh> Not sure how, the new google maps makes it harder
[22:48:05] <roycroft> my client puts a + at the beginning of each new line
[22:48:17] <roycroft> and that's a 5 line url
[22:48:22] <roycroft> i'll try to fix it up
[22:48:32] <andypugh> Indirect, but much shorter: https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/954803
[22:48:40] <Tom_itx> tinyurl screwed it up
[22:49:09] <roycroft> thanks, that's much better :)
[22:49:30] <roycroft> it would be amazing to have grown up in that house
[22:49:33] <andypugh> The local hobby seems to have been piling rocks on top of each other for centuries
[22:50:13] <Tom_itx> very cool though
[22:50:57] <roycroft> do the royal society for putting things on top of other things have a branch office in slaithwaite?
[22:51:19] <andypugh> The same photographer has some very nice pictures, like this ancient unused road: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/955027
[22:52:14] <roycroft> the house i grew up in was built in 1952
[22:52:20] <roycroft> the house i live in now was built in 1972
[22:53:18] <XXCoder> 1976 here
[22:53:24] <XXCoder> well rent house anyway lol
[22:53:31] <XXCoder> which is also my birthday year lol
[22:53:32] <andypugh> My curent house was built in about 1982. It’s waterproof and warm, but that’s about all you can say about it.
[22:54:12] <roycroft> i don't mind living in a fairly modern house
[22:54:27] <roycroft> but i would have to travel very very far to find a structure built around 1450
[22:54:34] <andypugh> anyway, it’s long past time I was asleep if I want to get anything done tomorrow
[22:54:37] <roycroft> or even 1850
[22:54:39] <andypugh> Night all
[23:21:06] <zeeshan> fak
[23:21:40] <zeeshan> took 1 hr to remove the pomegranate seeds
[23:24:24] <zeeshan> need to mechanize a spoon beating it
[23:26:37] <XXCoder> hey
[23:26:42] <XXCoder> beating it lol
[23:28:29] <zeeshan> hows your router working
[23:29:13] <XXCoder> cnc router seems good but still cant cut anything without garage space
[23:48:49] <XXCoder> whats happening there zeeshan
[23:52:03] <zeeshan> sleeping
[23:52:04] <zeeshan> :D
[23:52:20] <XXCoder> cool, sleeptalking lol
[23:52:26] <XXCoder> sleepircing rather
[23:52:34] <zeeshan> :)