#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-10-06

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[00:36:08] <aventtini6> waky waky
[00:36:10] <aventtini6> :)
[02:04:56] <Deejay> moin
[02:06:05] <Contract_Pilot> Hey all
[03:44:36] <Contract_Pilot> Slow Night?
[03:51:40] <archivist> its moring
[03:51:46] <archivist> morning
[03:57:53] <Praesmeodymium> Contract_Pilot: so your motors look good too as in specs of your order? I saw the pic of the driver guts
[03:58:51] <Contract_Pilot> Only recived 1 motor but it looks good. Was shipped a Nema 24 on this one the Nema 23's are on the way.
[04:01:30] <Contract_Pilot> Title said Nema 24 but long discription said Nema 34 but for 8.00 no complaints worth it for the driver.
[04:01:48] <Praesmeodymium> well good, makes me more hopeful the motors I ordered (and drivers) are good
[04:02:56] <Contract_Pilot> The build quality of the drivers look's really good compared to some M542 Drivers i had Googled.
[04:03:19] <Contract_Pilot> Just hope they send all 4.2A drivers.
[04:03:37] <Contract_Pilot> their MB450A Driver
[04:04:22] <Contract_Pilot> I should have 5 total when done 4 for the sherline machine's XYZ-A
[04:05:32] <Praesmeodymium> it bums me out I havent seen any more steals lol
[04:05:35] <Contract_Pilot> Will wire the china bob in/ou to a DB15 & DB9 BOB same as the sherline pins
[04:05:49] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, I know.
[04:06:44] <Contract_Pilot> Since I will be running these at 48V i may want to add cooling fans hahaha
[04:25:49] <Contract_Pilot> Gonna list the nema 24 on fee bay.
[04:28:41] <Contract_Pilot> http://webtrack.dhlglobalmail.com/?trackingnumber=9361269903500576951220%0D%0A9361269903500577488923%0D%0A9361269903500578445994%0D%0A9361269903500576952838%0D%0A9361269903500578457799%0D%0A9361269903500579362566
[05:16:11] <XXCoder> Contract_Pilot: weird as so far I know nema24 dont exist, closest is 23
[05:16:33] <Contract_Pilot> Nema 24 exists
[05:18:31] <renesis> xxcoder: i think theyre deeper versions on nema23 flanges
[05:18:44] <XXCoder> interesting
[05:18:56] <XXCoder> I sent seller for cheap stuff this "I do not agree to $15 refund. Get it to me within 3 to 7 days as promised or refund all."
[05:19:03] <renesis> anaheim automation has them, looked neat until someone pointed out how slow they were
[05:19:29] <XXCoder> I wonder a bit
[05:19:42] <XXCoder> does decreasing pause timing cause stepper to stall?
[05:19:51] <XXCoder> if so, I probably has to increase it
[05:20:01] <XXCoder> 5000 us was orginial timing
[05:21:37] <archivist> stalling is a symptom of many errors
[05:22:59] <renesis> my steppers stall when i crash them
[05:25:07] <XXCoder> yyou use steppers arch?
[05:29:18] <archivist> yes
[05:30:10] <archivist> they stall when you abuse them or set incorrect settings or expect unreasonable speed from them
[05:30:13] <XXCoder> whats your pause time for em?
[05:30:20] <XXCoder> mines at 2000 us
[05:30:25] <archivist> I dont pause them
[05:30:35] <archivist> define pause
[05:30:49] <XXCoder> no, its a setting at first configure for cnc device. hold on lemme get some info
[05:32:22] <XXCoder> ah got couple tihings wrong.
[05:32:25] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Nice, wonder how they'll respond
[05:32:32] <XXCoder> step time and space 2000 ns
[05:32:35] <XXCoder> not us
[05:32:48] <XXCoder> time and space,. time lord's dom ain
[05:32:53] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yeah lets see
[05:34:01] <archivist> the pulse durations are probably still some default value for me maybe 5000ns
[05:34:24] <XXCoder> I plan to try that next time. during work days its just not possible to do stuff lol
[05:34:37] <archivist> dont shorten too much some optos in the BOB and driver are slow
[05:35:55] <XXCoder> ok
[05:37:15] <archivist> then it can miss pulses thus causing stalling or plain failure to move
[05:37:51] <XXCoder> so its matter of finding sweet spot between time/space ns number and max speed and acceration?
[05:39:11] <archivist> max speed and acceleration are the usual fail points, back off a lot to keep within a sensible torque range of the motor
[05:39:26] <XXCoder> mines set to quite low
[05:39:37] <XXCoder> its set to 2 microstepping too
[05:44:40] <Akex_> Yooo boboss-___ ;)
[05:46:00] <boboss-___> yoooo Akex_
[05:46:28] <Akex_> :)
[05:59:29] <XXCoder> if you guys are bored heres intro to 4d lol http://hi.gher.space/classic/sitemap.htm
[06:15:22] <Contract_Pilot> XX who you requesting refund from?
[06:15:46] <XXCoder> oh seller of real cheap 3d printer
[06:16:01] <XXCoder> all shipping options was 3-7 days
[06:16:11] <XXCoder> he changed it to chinese special which is 30-45 days
[06:17:18] <Contract_Pilot> Ouch e-bay
[06:17:26] <XXCoder> no aliexpress
[06:17:44] <Contract_Pilot> He nail you on freight?
[06:18:02] <XXCoder> it was free but he changed option
[06:18:11] <XXCoder> its likely scam anyway
[06:19:28] <Contract_Pilot> Ahhh prob you use a secure payment?
[06:19:36] <Contract_Pilot> Have a lonk to printer
[06:20:04] <XXCoder> credit card which is chargebackabe
[06:20:41] <Contract_Pilot> Yep.
[06:22:54] <Contract_Pilot> Cannot wait to get these little machines up.
[06:23:15] <Contract_Pilot> M542 clone drive should be better then the TB driver
[06:25:10] <XXCoder> lol https://i.chzbgr.com/full/7963640320/h2BD4547F/
[06:25:16] <XXCoder> tb6560?
[06:25:20] <XXCoder> almost for sure lol
[07:03:24] <jthornton> ssi, the chaps at golang say that you don't make GUI applications with golang :(
[07:31:10] <SpeedEvil> jthornton: Don't listen!
[07:31:22] <jthornton> ok
[07:31:25] <SpeedEvil> The chaps at #awk said I shouldn't do hard-real-time DSP in awk!
[07:31:29] <SpeedEvil> I showed them!
[07:32:22] <archivist> I used to make assembler syntax converters in awk
[07:32:25] <jthornton> lol, I just got a spam email offering me a green card
[07:32:31] <jthornton> what is awk?
[07:32:45] <archivist> you dont know awk!!!!!
[07:33:12] <_methods> what the sed
[07:33:13] <jthornton> nope
[07:33:37] <archivist> The AWK programming language, A.V. Aho, B.W. Kernighan, P.J. Weinberger
[07:35:42] <archivist> sed on steroids
[07:42:59] <archivist> 38 years old https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWK
[07:48:39] <archivist> awallin, http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/29225
[07:51:15] <ganzuul> Toolpath generation is sort of like polygon stripe optimization...
[07:51:31] <ganzuul> A thing you do to make games run fast.
[07:56:12] <Wolf_> wish it was that simple
[07:57:04] <ganzuul> Stripe gen isn't simple...
[07:57:22] <ganzuul> It's NP hard, to begin with.
[07:57:42] <Wolf_> look at the cost on pro cam soft…
[07:57:48] <ganzuul> It's also a dimensionr eduction problem.
[07:58:26] <archivist> they like to take excess money for cam software at the moment while they can get away with it
[07:58:36] <ganzuul> Pro game engines are not cheap.
[08:00:30] <Wolf_> some of the cad/cam subscription costs are a little out there IMO
[08:03:01] <Wolf_> from a post in 2011 “SW standard is $3995, Pro is $5495 and Premium is $10k ish without subscription...aka maint. and tax. SolidCam $5k to 15k depends on what you want and maybe more. doesn't include maint or tax either.”
[08:03:10] <ganzuul> Pretty interesting that the problem space isn't strictly discrete though... Hm.
[08:11:34] <Wolf_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=34&v=38PvCEqBN-w
[08:18:07] <skunkworks> wolf_: get your drive back together?
[08:18:24] <Wolf_> ordered a replacement for $40
[08:21:36] <skunkworks> linuxcnc could certainly do the kins for the A-X machining
[08:21:41] <skunkworks> cool video
[08:22:44] <Wolf_> what some of the machines and software can do still amazes me
[08:27:28] <ganzuul> The cable drive differential base for this might be an effective 4th and 5th axis. http://www.barrett.com/DS_WAM.pdf
[08:29:04] <ganzuul> ...They say in their marketing blab that it operates 'directly in cartesian space', so coordinate transformation or somesuch is simpler.
[08:29:32] <Wolf_> thats software
[08:30:00] <ganzuul> Yeah, I don't get why it's worth mentioning.
[08:31:10] <Wolf_> well, which is easier, telling the arm where to go, or needing to plot the full range of movement of the arm
[08:32:15] <archivist> what should the arm do if there are multiple ways of getting there
[08:32:36] <ganzuul> hmm
[08:32:51] <archivist> have you ever knocked something off the table with your elbow :)
[08:34:20] <ganzuul> They do show it trying to reach its target when facing unexpected obstacles.
[08:36:20] * ganzuul knocks his other elbow off the table with his elbow
[08:49:47] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqmYnZS-RUs
[09:39:31] <ssi> morn
[09:41:40] <ganzuul> o/
[09:42:46] <TurBoss> \o/
[09:42:57] <ssi> \o
[09:44:10] <anomynous> technology trade show tomorrow tratatata ;D I hope its fun
[09:44:14] <anomynous> and educative
[09:44:21] <ssi> much educative
[09:44:26] <ssi> very technologish
[09:44:28] <ssi> wow
[09:44:30] <anomynous> yes yes
[09:44:33] <anomynous> me learn things
[09:44:34] <anomynous> ;D
[10:16:16] <Wolf_> lol, I hate comcast, just got automated call saying I need to replace my modem because it may not be providing me w/ full speed
[10:19:17] <ssi> hah
[10:19:20] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: you mean the modem that they have full control of the settings of and not you?
[10:19:32] <ssi> tell them you should replace your provider because they might not be providing you with full speed
[10:19:35] <Wolf_> yeah, even tho I own it
[10:19:51] <Wolf_> checking to see what speed I’m paying for
[10:20:07] <CaptHindsight> it's for security from you
[10:20:19] <Wolf_> 150Mbps package http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4722861148
[10:22:24] <Wolf_> good enough for a 4yr old modem that they haven’t made any $$ off of lol
[10:23:00] <CaptHindsight> have you ever monitored how often Comcast checks your modem and reflashes it? The flash is what generally dies from their paranoia
[10:23:17] <Wolf_> not really
[10:24:10] <Wolf_> for the full time I have had this modem I have been getting ~120Mb/s download speed
[10:24:23] <Wolf_> even when I was paying for 50Mbps from them
[10:26:28] <CaptHindsight> i used to have a connection with them on a very quiet segment on their network and had similar results. The same modem in a large city had a much slower average speed.
[10:28:28] <CaptHindsight> the keep track and care about which cable TV receivers are on what portions of their network, but they didn't seem to care about modems moving around
[10:30:21] <Wolf_> last guy that called from their sales sounded perplexed that I have base nothing tv service and totally didn’t want to upgrade it at all, only reason I got it was bundle cost was lower
[10:31:43] <CaptHindsight> we found that dealing with the 3rd party vendors can get you the best deals without a contract
[10:32:33] <CaptHindsight> they will even hand you a modem and a length of coax to install it yourself
[10:34:23] <Wolf_> crap, I think i lost the data sheet for this damn servo motor
[10:41:17] <Wolf_> sweet, found the pdf on my computer
[10:41:43] <Wolf_> docs from mid 90’s are hard to come by lol
[10:43:05] <Sync> 90s are pretty ok
[10:43:10] <Sync> much earlier tends to be a pain
[10:44:38] <Wolf_> find me specs on a Kollmorgen H-342-E-0410 servo w/ E3-2000-315 encoder then :P
[10:46:45] <_abc_> cradek: about yesterday: a) version is 2.8.0-pre1-1122-someuuid b) I fixed the axis.py by hand to stop ignoring .ini param MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE; this works okay. I set min_spindle_override = MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE ... or 0.05; <- this prevents the spindle relay dropping when the scale is pulled to extreme left.
[10:46:58] <_abc_> The real bug will have to be found elsewhere, it is not in axis.
[10:47:01] <_abc_> Afaik.
[10:47:53] <_abc_> The load probe_paroport problem was solved as you said by removing the module and ensuring parport_pc is loaded
[10:48:33] <_abc_> stepconf is still broken but since it is stand-alone I will simply copy in the git version and see how it does. Until the next upgrade, it will have to do.
[10:51:30] <_abc_> * load probe_parport
[10:52:13] <_abc_> cradek: opinion on hacking axis.py a bit more so the spindle scale shows real rpm, any reason not to do that please?
[10:54:11] <Tom_itx> mmm video show n tell this morning...
[11:09:46] <Wolf_> hmm, 130-200v BLDC servo motors…
[11:09:57] <Wolf_> now to find some controllers
[11:10:22] <ssi> where'd you get the motors?
[11:10:38] <Wolf_> eBay, almost 10 yrs ago
[11:11:04] <zeeshan|2> :d
[11:11:10] <ssi> zeeeee
[11:11:10] <zeeshan|2> YOUR EGONNA BREAK THAT MILL!
[11:11:15] <zeeshan|2> witho those motors
[11:11:33] <Wolf_> they are only nema 34 :P
[11:11:44] <ssi> on what kinda mill
[11:11:58] <Wolf_> 375oz-in peak torque
[11:11:58] <archivist> they are for moving the mill on the bench
[11:12:16] <Wolf_> so might be overkill for a x2
[11:12:22] <ssi> um. just a bit
[11:12:36] <zeeshan|2> lol archivist
[11:12:36] <zeeshan|2> hahah
[11:12:44] <zeeshan|2> sorry wofly :P
[11:12:51] <Wolf_> hehe
[11:13:03] <Wolf_> I have them, might as well look in to using them?
[11:13:16] <ssi> those are REALLY big for that machine
[11:13:18] <ssi> too big isn't a good thing
[11:13:34] <ssi> especially with servos, you might actually break that machine lol
[11:14:01] <Wolf_> yeah, not rated the same as stepper eh
[11:14:53] <ssi> well typically servos are way faster than you need for a machine like that, so you probably ought to gear them down
[11:14:59] <ssi> and that multiplies the torque
[11:15:13] <ssi> those are probably 500W or more aren't they
[11:15:35] <Wolf_> 470w
[11:15:51] <ssi> yeah that's like 5/8hp
[11:16:02] <ssi> those'd probably be adequate on a bridgeport sized mill
[11:16:05] <Wolf_> not 100% on that cause I can’t find the winding specs
[11:17:17] <Wolf_> only data sheets I have for these motors have a H winding listed, mine have a E in part number
[11:21:28] <Wolf_> doesn’t seem to matter much, can’t find any drivers
[11:21:41] <archivist> make
[11:23:52] <archivist> or see if mesa has anything
[11:24:25] <archivist> 7I39 for 250W
[11:26:22] <zeeshan|2> yay my gf got me a telescope for my bday
[11:26:38] <zeeshan|2> very thoughtful present
[11:26:44] <zeeshan|2> i need to cnc it
[11:27:37] <archivist> making your worm drives will tax your machining
[11:27:52] <ssi> I'm about to cry
[11:29:44] <zeeshan|2> y ssi
[11:30:24] <ssi> I have to fax something
[11:30:30] <ssi> once I fax it to them, they'll mail me $100,000
[11:30:34] <ssi> but I can't figure out how to send a fax
[11:30:40] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:30:43] <ssi> :'(
[11:30:46] <ssi> halp
[11:30:58] <zeeshan|2> sounds like one of tose nigerian bank scams
[11:30:58] <Sync> send them a letter
[11:31:01] <zeeshan|2> dont fall for it !
[11:31:07] <ssi> zeeshan|2: it's an american bank scam :(
[11:34:01] <CaptHindsight> will they fax you the $100,000?
[11:36:46] <Wolf_> whats a fax?
[11:36:48] <ssi> god I hope not
[11:36:55] <ssi> I think I got it sent
[11:37:00] * ssi claws his way back from 1993
[11:38:07] <Wolf_> odd zeeshan|2 my (ex)gf got me a telescope for my bday like 3yrs ago, gave it to me 3-4 months ago lol and its already cnc
[11:38:30] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: it's what doctors, medical labs and hospitals in the US still use to send each other requests for tests or exams
[11:39:16] <Wolf_> yeah, a bunch of the vendors for truck equipment always want to fax me invoices
[11:39:20] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 you into astronomy?
[11:39:27] <ssi> and what certain banks use as their only form of communication other than correspondence
[11:39:40] <Tom_itx> or just spying on the neighbors?
[11:41:40] * _abc_ once adjusted the mirror in a 3 inch toy telescope after someone got at it - used a bare lightbulb in a housing tower about 5km away, open window. The filament was about the right size to fill the ocular.
[11:42:09] <_abc_> Also the distance cuts down on power so it was not too bright, just comfy
[11:42:53] <_abc_> ssi: "you have to have a paper trail to cover your ass with, emails cannot be held for that"
[11:43:01] <ssi> I'm sure
[11:43:18] <_abc_> Never mind 90% of faxes ARE computers and scanners and have been for a while now.
[11:43:40] <_abc_> And by computer I do not mean the embedded fax engine but a proper pc, network, people, and windows.
[11:43:50] <ssi> it's a thin distinction nowadays
[11:44:07] <Tom_itx> ppl still fax stuff?
[11:44:12] <ssi> I just did
[11:44:17] <ssi> it took me three tries and a lot of anguish
[11:44:23] <jdh> mortgage?
[11:44:27] <ssi> yea
[11:44:31] <Tom_itx> my printer will scan to pdf then ijust email that
[11:44:35] <ssi> well specifically the escrow for the repairs
[11:45:28] <archivist> the window industry of here (see through kind) all still use fax
[11:45:35] <archivist> of/over
[11:45:40] <jdh> I had to find a fax for a refi a few years ago. pain in the ass
[11:51:59] <Wolf_> 7i39 won’t do...
[11:56:00] <pcw_home> 7I39 is way too small
[11:58:00] <_abc_> jdh: It's easy to find. Walk into an electronics store, leave with a multifunction printer copier scanner fax.
[11:58:16] <_abc_> jdh: ~100EUR is entry level inkjet from big brands.
[11:58:20] <ssi> _abc_: cool, then what do you plug it into?
[11:58:21] <_abc_> Including HP
[11:58:28] <ssi> how do you hook that up to your cellphone? :P
[11:58:40] <_abc_> ssi: Cisco FXO to voip adapter of course ;)
[11:59:03] <ssi> bleh
[11:59:05] <_abc_> Cell phone fax is unlikely, but a POTS voip termination online is about $5/month if you shop around
[11:59:14] <ssi> yeah I've had them in the past
[11:59:19] <ssi> zero interest in dealing with that anymore
[11:59:28] <ssi> plus I don't have reliable internet these days either
[11:59:29] <ssi> hooray.
[11:59:31] <_abc_> You did say you need a fax number...
[11:59:39] <ssi> no, I needed to fax outbound
[11:59:59] <_abc_> The internet need not be reliable fax is always relayed over voip. The endpoint will not send it on until it's all in.
[12:00:34] <_abc_> Also alas there was the free fax by email service once upon a time. Free too.
[12:01:31] <ssi> it just seems stupid to buy a machine that scans a paper to an image to turn it into data which is then modulated to audio to be sent over voice over ip so that the audio is converted to data and transmitted over the internet to a pots gateway where it's converted back to audio to make a phone ring in new jersey so a machine can answer and listen to the audio which is demodulated into data which represents an image which is then printed on a printer
[12:02:57] <_abc_> Yes, but that is what they want
[12:03:05] <ssi> yes, because they're stupid
[12:04:39] <_abc_> If you say so.
[12:13:44] <CaptHindsight> I recommend that my online fax service. It's unstable but the payment system works flawlessly and there no way to contact us for support
[12:14:04] <ssi> a glowing recommendation :D
[12:14:46] <CaptHindsight> first half page is free, then all you need to do is prepay for the next 10 pages at $1.50 ea
[12:16:53] <CaptHindsight> wow, there is still a bunch of those services online
[12:17:07] <CaptHindsight> only they appear to charge by the month now
[12:18:21] <CaptHindsight> heh $16.95/mo and $10 sucker er em setup fee
[12:18:26] <ssi> :)
[12:20:07] <Wolf_> so, how do I figure out what voltage/current these BLDC servos can use?
[12:20:28] <ssi> what does the nameplate say?
[12:20:47] <Wolf_> just a part number
[12:22:09] <Wolf_> getting around ~0.27Ω on the coils and 783uH inductance, spec sheet says 250V max line to line
[12:24:30] <ssi> spec sheet say anything about current?
[12:24:37] <ssi> peak/continuous rating?
[12:24:40] <CaptHindsight> load test them and monitor the temperature
[12:24:51] <CaptHindsight> if there's no data
[12:25:04] <ssi> treat them like 200VDC motors
[12:25:12] <Wolf_> 12A cont.
[12:25:25] <ssi> 120VAC recitfied and filtered for a supply feeding 200V servo drives
[12:25:44] <ssi> try to get some drives that'll do 200V max, 12V cont, 24A peak
[12:25:46] <ssi> or better
[12:25:53] <Wolf_> but thats a guess, winding are unknown
[12:25:55] <ssi> the amc BE20A25 is about right
[12:30:42] <Sync> yeah you can just DC load it and measure temp rise
[12:31:06] <Wolf_> not seeing any BE20A25
[12:32:21] <ssi> sorry be25a20
[12:32:30] <ssi> 25 is the peak current in amps, 20 is the max voltage in x10V
[12:32:39] <ssi> BE means brushless, encoder feedback
[12:33:05] <ssi> the ones that end in AC have integral power supplies with a 120V IEC plug
[12:33:51] <ssi> but seriously, that drive plus a 500W servo is enough to run a small vmc :)
[12:34:16] <Wolf_> lol nice
[12:36:25] <Wolf_> think there is 3 of them on eBay, around $245 eh
[12:36:46] <ssi> the price fluctuates
[12:36:51] <ssi> they used to be cheap before zeeshan|2 bought them all
[12:38:41] <Wolf_> no good if its just B25A20AC ?
[12:38:49] <ssi> that's fine
[12:39:02] <ssi> might not have encoder feedback for velocity
[12:39:27] <ssi> your servos have hall sensors right?
[12:39:40] <Wolf_> yeah, hall + encoder
[12:39:41] <ssi> the B25A20AC can do hall velocity feedback
[12:42:58] <Wolf_> going lower voltage won’t work right?
[12:43:18] <ssi> AMC makes 200V drives and 80V drives
[12:43:25] <ssi> you could probably run those servos on 80V but I dunno how they'll perform
[12:43:44] <pcw_home> lower will work but limits you maximum speed
[12:44:02] <pcw_home> (and bandwidth a bit)
[12:44:06] <Wolf_> well, I think I have speed to spare lol
[12:44:24] <Wolf_> max is 6000rpm on these motors?
[12:45:56] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are those the drives that kept blowing up real good for zeeshan?
[12:46:00] <pcw_home> if you have the motor docs they will have V/1KRPM specified
[12:46:02] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yep :D
[12:46:20] <pcw_home> well z connected them in a bad way
[12:46:27] <ssi> I blew one up too
[12:46:41] <ssi> pro tip: make sure the power is disconnected and the light is off before you stick a screwdriver down in there to flip dip switches
[12:46:48] <ssi> cause it's perilously easy to short to the DC bus
[12:47:15] <pcw_home> That will do it...
[12:47:24] <ssi> the status light is fed off the dc bus so when it goes out the caps are discharged
[12:48:41] <Wolf_> odd no V/1KRPM listed
[12:48:55] <ssi> Wolf_: have a link to the datasheet?
[12:49:52] <Wolf_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yis13tmyj1e599s/silverlinedp.pdf?dl=0
[12:50:33] <ssi> which part number is yours
[12:50:48] <Wolf_> h-342-E
[12:51:29] <ssi> 12.5V/krpm
[12:51:56] <Sync> you can use our drivers Wolf_
[12:52:45] <ssi> god this is a nice datasheet
[12:52:48] <ssi> you're lucky to have this much data
[12:53:13] <Wolf_> yeah, except the windings are different in the motors I have
[12:53:50] <ssi> it'll get you close enough
[12:54:06] <ssi> any drive with 200V max voltage or better, 12A continuous will be fine
[12:54:07] <Wolf_> Sync: linky?
[12:54:23] <Sync> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
[12:54:55] <ssi> cute
[12:55:09] <Wolf_> looks like fun
[12:55:24] <ssi> I wonder how hard that'd be to adapt to drive stupid ass fanuc servos
[12:55:57] <ssi> Sync: your design?
[12:56:02] <Sync> yes
[12:56:09] <Sync> or rather, also
[12:56:13] <ssi> what eda software did you use to lay it out
[12:56:21] <Sync> that's eagle
[12:56:30] <ssi> are the eagle files up there?
[12:56:45] <ssi> oh there it is in hw
[12:56:47] <ssi> cool
[12:57:08] <ssi> crap I need to install eagle on this machine
[12:57:10] <Wolf_> gcc =/ can that be compiled with kiel?
[12:57:14] <ssi> gotta find my license files
[12:57:23] <Sync> stop using wrong compilers Wolf_
[12:57:31] <Wolf_> lol
[12:58:09] <ssi> sweet I put them in dropbox like a bawssss
[12:58:16] <Sync> there is no reason why it would not work but apparently it is an issue
[13:00:26] <ssi> Sync: mind if I fork that project and make some modifications to suit my needs?
[13:01:18] <Sync> if you tell me what you want to do/need I can tell you what's in the pipeline
[13:01:33] <ssi> i need to look at what it can do, looks like there's a ton of options
[13:01:56] <ssi> oh hm it doesn't do brushless DC motors does it
[13:02:18] <Sync> it does
[13:02:44] <ssi> does it have hall feedback for commutation?
[13:02:48] <ssi> I didn't see anything about hall inputs
[13:04:04] <Sync> nope, we don't need commutation feedback
[13:04:12] <ssi> really? how's that
[13:04:33] <Sync> well, we need an angle measurement device
[13:04:39] <Sync> and commutation is calculated
[13:04:47] <ssi> what does it do before encoder is indexed?
[13:04:53] <ssi> before there's an absolute angle known
[13:05:04] <Sync> rotor/encoder offset is constant
[13:05:13] <Sync> you do an autophase once
[13:05:14] <Sync> and it works
[13:05:43] <ssi> that might suit my needs then
[13:05:50] <ssi> how can I get ahold of pcbs?
[13:07:02] <Wolf_> IMO someone should put it on oshpark shared stuff :P
[13:07:10] <ssi> probably not a bad idea
[13:07:13] * ganzuul used vertical shear tool to make a VERY shiny! ^_______^
[13:07:26] <ssi> ganzuul: vertical shearing is pretty cool :)
[13:07:52] <Sync> Wolf_: no point, the hardware is currently in rework
[13:07:54] <_methods> vertical shear tool?
[13:08:01] <Wolf_> oh lol
[13:08:04] <Sync> ssi: by visiting our irc channel and asking rene
[13:08:06] <ganzuul> ssi: took a few tries to get it right.
[13:08:06] <archivist> burnishing
[13:08:07] <Wolf_> eta on that?
[13:08:18] <Sync> $time
[13:08:24] <Sync> but you can just work with the one on there
[13:08:36] <ganzuul> vertical shear tool doesn't burnish...
[13:08:42] <ssi> it's on another network :'(
[13:08:49] <_methods> wtf is a vertical shear tool
[13:08:52] <_methods> scissors
[13:08:55] <ssi> which I can't seem to connect to
[13:08:57] <ganzuul> for metal
[13:08:59] <ganzuul> yes
[13:09:13] <ganzuul> _methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=289TxQfLNi0
[13:09:14] <_methods> you mean like a sheet metal shear?
[13:09:27] <ganzuul> Beware, guy uses his middle finger to point at things.
[13:09:32] <ssi> lol
[13:09:38] <Sync> huh? shouldn't be an issue ssi
[13:09:48] <ssi> 13:45 -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server irc.hackint.edu port 6667 [Name or service not known]
[13:09:59] <Sync> how about using .eu?
[13:10:02] <ssi> er
[13:10:05] <Sync> for yurop
[13:10:11] <ssi> I could have sworn I cut and pasted that
[13:10:19] <Sync> apparently not :D
[13:10:22] <ssi> apparently
[13:44:55] <lair82> Afternoon Gentlemen, any recommendations for a decent laptop refurb or not that would be good for loading ubuntu/debian to use for general BS.
[14:21:31] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=296&v=c_orOT3Prwg
[14:23:29] <_methods> wow
[14:24:27] <ssi> I know dem feels
[14:24:33] <_methods> hahah
[14:24:36] <_methods> sorry forgot
[14:24:47] <ssi> :)
[14:25:07] <_methods> his source of water must be in another country
[14:25:30] <ssi> he's trying to beat it out and fanning it
[14:25:30] <ssi> heh
[14:25:39] <Sync> I like how it almost burned out in the beginning
[14:25:51] <_methods> i think i'd be gettin my kid out of there
[14:25:56] <_methods> probably first
[14:26:04] <Praesmeodymium> he almost smothers it again when the unplugs something usb
[14:26:29] <_methods> i hope this guy isn't a fire fighter professionaly
[14:26:40] <ssi> pretty sure he's not
[14:26:53] <_methods> if he is he must be the truck driver
[14:26:57] <ssi> I'm actually surprised it's not spreading faster
[14:27:11] <FinboySlick> _methods: WTF?
[14:27:18] <_methods> he must not live in one of those paper japanese houses
[14:27:28] <_methods> cause this video would be much shorter lol
[14:27:49] <ssi> what I want to know is why he tried to smother it with cardboard
[14:27:53] <ssi> that was a horrible idea :P
[14:27:59] <_methods> hahahha
[14:28:01] <_methods> no kidding
[14:28:21] <ssi> 9:30
[14:28:24] <ssi> that's when it starts to get scary
[14:28:26] <Sync> I like how he panics
[14:28:29] <ssi> when everything just looks orange
[14:28:31] <FinboySlick> I'd love to know what the text-to-speach hentai-like voice is saying.
[14:28:31] <Sync> instead of dealing with it calmly
[14:28:33] <ssi> it's really really terrifying
[14:29:03] <_methods> i thought that voice was his baby or something in teh background
[14:29:12] <ssi> nah that's his waifu
[14:29:13] <_methods> i was like wtf man save the child
[14:29:19] <_methods> hahahahha
[14:29:23] <_methods> tts waifu
[14:30:25] <ssi> yeah man watching that makes me a little panicky, not gonna lie
[14:31:08] <_methods> in the army we used to call guys like that 5 minute privates
[14:31:26] <_methods> it took them 5 minutes to figure out what to do no matter what it was you told them to do
[14:31:35] <Tom_itx> heh
[14:31:37] <_methods> get a mop bucket you jackass
[14:31:45] <_methods> 5 mins of spinning in circles
[14:32:02] <Tom_itx> and she just sits there doing nothing...
[14:32:21] <_methods> she finally helped at the end
[14:32:26] <_methods> i saw her throw one pan on
[14:32:32] <Tom_itx> or at him?
[14:32:37] <_methods> that was later lol
[14:32:43] <Tom_itx> heh
[14:32:45] <ganzuul> How does one determine one's tolerance requirements for a machine? The purpose of the machine is to be awsome.
[14:32:50] <_methods> i know my wife'd skin my ass good if i did that shit
[14:33:00] <Tom_itx> ganzuul, then you need awesome specs
[14:33:01] <_methods> ganzuul: 0000000's
[14:33:12] <ganzuul> hmm
[14:33:14] <ssi> ganzuul: you build it to the tightest tolerance that you can afford
[14:33:18] <_methods> how many 0's can you afford to add to the bill hehe
[14:33:19] <ganzuul> ah
[14:33:24] <Tom_itx> yeah it's all about the 000's and where the dot . is placed
[14:33:37] <FinboySlick> _methods: The 'female' voice isn't a real person as far as I can tell, it's text to speech.
[14:33:48] <_methods> well i'm glad for that
[14:33:50] <Tom_itx> every time you move the dot the price goes up exponentially
[14:33:54] <_methods> i thought they left their child to die
[14:34:01] <ganzuul> But how do I know when to stop making the world's bestest vacuum cleaner?
[14:34:06] <furrywolf> there's a direct relation between zeroes on the price and zeroes on the precision.
[14:34:12] <_methods> when you can't afford any more 0's
[14:34:13] <_methods> lol
[14:34:15] <Tom_itx> ganzuul, ask dyson
[14:35:27] <ganzuul> So the customer decides how many 0s...
[14:35:42] <_methods> usually
[14:35:49] <ganzuul> What if I hate customers?
[14:35:56] <_methods> you're in luck
[14:36:14] <_methods> the more you hate them the better your decisions will be about not taking loser jobs hehe
[14:36:49] <_methods> jobs that are "cool" are the ones that you get burnt on usually
[14:36:58] <Tom_itx> how long should one stay at a job?
[14:36:59] <ssi> ganzuul: real answer: shoot to hold 0.001"/0.02mm
[14:37:13] <ssi> ganzuul: that's the easiest tolerance to aim for without spending a lot of money
[14:37:28] <ssi> you'll know when you need tighter tolerances
[14:37:51] <ganzuul> Tom_itx: I stayed for two years at a job I hated. Eventually I learned to do everything right, except eat proper and stay in good health. So they fired me.
[14:38:11] <ganzuul> Got my debts paid.
[14:38:48] <ganzuul> 20 micron...
[14:39:51] <ganzuul> ssi: I could buy measuring tools with that accuracy. :o
[14:40:24] <ssi> I thought you already had a .001mm DTI
[14:40:26] <ganzuul> Then I'll be happily ignorant of my shortcomings.
[14:40:34] <ganzuul> Yeah...
[14:40:35] <ssi> oh I see what you're saying
[14:40:59] <ssi> well, why don't you spend some time trying to create some really accurate turnings
[14:41:12] <ganzuul> I made a shiny one...
[14:41:17] <ssi> shiny != accurate :)
[14:42:33] <ganzuul> Shiny and chrome...
[14:42:40] <Sync> and then find out that your lathe turns tapers
[14:42:54] <ssi> :)
[14:44:09] <ssi> ok I'm going home
[14:44:13] <ganzuul> o/
[14:44:21] <ssi> \o
[14:44:36] <_methods> zlog
[14:45:03] <ganzuul> Sync: I know about reversal methods. :)
[14:56:35] <ganzuul> Anybody here who balances their lathe chuck?
[15:08:00] <CaptHindsight> 3 jaw or 4 ? :)
[15:10:27] <ganzuul> 3...
[15:10:35] <ganzuul> Well both.
[15:11:25] <ganzuul> The faceplate on my lathe is made to much higher tolerances than the chuck. There's really a huge difference.
[15:12:55] <ganzuul> And since the lathe is very light, the chuck makes it shake a little.
[15:13:32] <ganzuul> That's with an 80mm chuck. I have a 125mm chuck in the mail.
[15:13:46] <CaptHindsight> I've managed to turn some toy machines into something with more use at times
[15:14:55] <CaptHindsight> more so for deposition than for cutting anything
[15:18:43] <ganzuul> >:|
[15:18:47] <ganzuul> It's not a toy.
[15:19:25] <ganzuul> For educational purposes it is very good.
[15:19:53] <CaptHindsight> I've taken them apart and re-machined everything
[15:20:06] <CaptHindsight> reassembled them square
[15:22:22] <ganzuul> What was wrong?
[15:24:23] <CaptHindsight> just about anything from having several mm of lash, missing parts and lube holes and being assembled outdoors in a sandstorm (from the sound of the bearings)
[15:25:02] <CaptHindsight> or bearings with detents
[15:25:33] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:25:35] <SpeedEvil> China does not make a given quality of machinery. It makes whatever quality of machinery the buyer is willing to carefully specify and ensure the QC of.
[15:25:50] <SpeedEvil> Or, if they don't specify anything, pot-luck
[15:26:24] <CaptHindsight> or castings with voids to save on weight I guess :)
[15:26:40] <ganzuul> My machine is the OEM's own brand.
[15:26:52] <ganzuul> SEIG.
[15:26:54] <CaptHindsight> red oxide coated fasteners
[15:27:16] <ganzuul> ~sieg
[15:28:59] <ganzuul> Come to think of it, their corporate colors are red, black and white...
[15:30:34] <renesis> capthindsight: heh
[15:39:41] <PetefromTn_> thats what everyone says but have you honestly ever found a chinese product no matter how well specified or designed and QC'd that was Truly precise and accurate?
[15:40:38] <ganzuul> I think 2 micron runout on the spindle backplate is pretty decent...
[15:41:06] <PetefromTn_> what machine are we talking about here?
[15:41:38] <ganzuul> BLDC 7x16, Sieg brand.
[15:41:44] <ganzuul> Lathe.
[15:42:32] <FinboySlick> ganzuul: My machine had those kinds of specs.
[15:42:43] <FinboySlick> ... on paper.
[15:42:59] <ganzuul> I measured mine. :)
[15:43:06] <FinboySlick> But I think they forgot to put them on the machine too.
[15:45:19] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it is nice and I wish you good luck with it.
[15:45:30] <ganzuul> \o/
[15:45:35] <ganzuul> I makes shiny things.
[15:45:42] <ganzuul> ~it
[15:45:48] <Sync> ganzuul: runout is a thing they QC well because it is easy to measure
[15:45:49] <PetefromTn_> everyone loves shiny things ;)
[15:47:40] <CaptHindsight> Tips for Improving Chinese Lathe Chuck Accuracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANP_mHp79uc
[15:50:01] <CaptHindsight> Micro-Mark Microlux 7x14 = Sieg C3
[15:53:37] <Sync> the more important things is a not bananarized crossslide
[15:55:33] <ganzuul> Ordered a 1 inch longer crosslide from littlemachineshop.com.
[15:55:48] <ganzuul> Well, saddle.
[15:55:56] <Sync> http://sync-hv.de/~tmp/banane.jpg
[16:09:03] <Deejay> gn8
[16:11:05] <CaptHindsight> net split Tuesday
[16:11:05] <XXCoder> net banana split
[16:11:05] <ganzuul> !seen just_pink
[16:11:06] <ganzuul> *crickets*
[16:13:05] <Sync> XXCoder: it requires some scraping, but that's it
[16:13:34] <XXCoder> ganzuul: guess its been a bit. hope she does well lol odd lady
[16:13:43] <XXCoder> but then theres other even odder one here
[16:14:13] <malcom2073> XXCoder: The aliexpress guy is getting rather pushy now lol
[16:14:30] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yeah I suspect refund can be done only once
[16:14:40] <XXCoder> so I'm not accepting $15 on
[16:14:47] <malcom2073> I'ma dispute it, and ask for a refund of my money + $15
[16:14:52] <malcom2073> He offered $15 so... yeah
[16:14:52] <malcom2073> hehe
[16:15:04] <XXCoder> only entire, or product (unlikely at this point)
[16:15:26] <malcom2073> aww heh
[16:16:12] <fenn> ganzuul thick plate glass or granite countertops (check with straight edge though)
[16:17:05] <fenn> ask at counter installers if they have granite scraps
[16:17:19] <fenn> also supposedly corian machines nicely with carbide so see if they have that too
[16:17:43] <FinboySlick> Why would someone grind a 4jaw this way? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Y3nErVCnc
[16:17:55] <ganzuul> fenn: Granite counter tops, really? :o
[16:18:12] <FinboySlick> 3 jaw I can understand, but what's a few thou going to do on a 4-jaw?
[16:19:29] <fenn> FinboySlick: it's to correct for bell-mouth wear on the jaws
[16:19:47] <FinboySlick> fenn: OK, that makes sense.
[16:19:48] <fenn> or angular misalignment of some other sort
[16:20:20] <Sync> fenn: plate glass is not straight to the degree you need it to be
[16:20:35] <Sync> it also does not take the bluing very well
[16:20:38] <XXCoder> I dont run lathes but from what i understand work just uses soft jaws, and they just directly finish and make hole so on for specific part.
[16:20:43] <XXCoder> much less error,.
[16:20:48] <fenn> this guy is obviously a woodworker...
[16:21:04] <XXCoder> alum jaws was MUCH lighter than normal alum. may be pure alum
[16:22:09] <Sync> haha yeah fenn
[16:22:17] <Sync> I like the finished clamping device
[16:22:18] <XXCoder> I guess it'd fix runout, that method on video
[16:22:42] <fenn> wooden T-nut
[16:22:57] <ganzuul> How do you scrape granite, anyway?
[16:23:05] <fenn> you lap it with abrasive blocks
[16:23:06] <XXCoder> BIIIG block of alum
[16:23:19] <XXCoder> with some abrasive gel of some kind
[16:23:27] <XXCoder> my work recently refinished most Surface.
[16:23:51] <DaViruz> right when he says "hold this dremel firmly in place" he touches it and it rocks around in the holder :)
[16:23:55] <Sync> XXCoder: on a 4 jaw with individual moving jaws?!
[16:24:05] <XXCoder> one was so bad at .003" something. its now at .00012
[16:24:15] <fenn> angular runout
[16:24:29] <DaViruz> oh, he hadn't tightened it up yet
[16:24:32] <XXCoder> yeah not centerness but angle
[16:25:59] <XXCoder> ganzuul: guy used special tool to find many possible problems, then he took out BIG block of alum, bottom is shinest alum I have ever seen.
[16:26:09] <XXCoder> he carefully makes sure its clean and adds gel
[16:26:18] <XXCoder> he took quite a while to grind
[16:26:27] <XXCoder> stops and checks once a while
[16:26:52] <XXCoder> at near final, he takes out smaller (but still big, 2 foot long, 1.5 foot wide) block of alum
[16:27:08] <XXCoder> uses something different (didnt see it clearly was busy)
[16:27:15] <XXCoder> grinds on it for short while
[16:27:15] <fenn> gel doesn't seem right because moisture causes granite to expand?
[16:27:26] <XXCoder> fenn: its white stuff unknown what it is
[16:27:47] <XXCoder> it may not be liquid or gel of any form, but looked like it
[16:27:54] <XXCoder> didnt want to touch
[16:28:01] <XXCoder> it may ruin surface accuracy
[16:28:13] <fenn> could be silicone or oil or ...
[16:28:18] <XXCoder> possibly
[16:28:25] <XXCoder> probably not oil
[16:28:40] <ganzuul> Stuffhmm
[16:28:44] <ganzuul> bleh
[16:28:56] <fenn> i agree
[16:28:57] <Sync> XXCoder: cer oxide
[16:29:04] <XXCoder> anyway guy took over 6 hours on really bad Surface. one near me didnt need any fixing so I never had chance to look closer
[16:29:23] <fenn> seems like a job for a robot
[16:29:26] <XXCoder> all inspection surfaces had to be fixed, though maybe hour each by other guy
[16:29:48] <XXCoder> I can't get over how damn shiny bottom of sander alum block was.
[16:29:57] <XXCoder> brigther than chrome almost
[16:30:12] <fenn> yep
[16:30:21] <XXCoder> ultraflat
[16:30:21] <fenn> aluminum has the highest reflectivity of any element
[16:31:18] <XXCoder> anyway it was interesting
[16:32:01] <ganzuul> Could maybe get 3 equal-size granite counter tops and and do the automatic gneration of gages thing with them.
[16:32:01] <XXCoder> time to go work yay heh
[16:32:08] <ganzuul> o/
[16:32:21] <XXCoder> job is nice and boring this time. no more helljob I had to work last two weeks
[16:32:30] <Sync> ganzuul: you need to get granite with low piezo electric content
[16:32:42] <ganzuul> :o
[16:32:57] <ganzuul> Small grains, then.
[16:33:24] <Sync> or just a real plate
[16:33:25] <fenn> you need granite with orgone-generating holograms encoded in it
[16:33:32] <Sync> it is far easier
[16:33:47] <Sync> although I did the 3 plate method with alu plates for fun
[16:33:50] <Sync> it really works
[16:33:53] <ganzuul> Holograms of pyramids.
[16:34:05] <ganzuul> 5 dimensions or more.
[16:34:25] <Sync> more = more better
[16:34:36] <ganzuul> Sync: Why alu?
[16:35:18] <Sync> because it machines fast
[16:35:31] <fenn> sync did you use plates or castings/
[16:37:21] <ganzuul> Yanno, with the high heat transfer of alu, hot spots should not rise up, like so: https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AngryNeglectedIcterinewarbler-size_restricted.gif
[16:37:55] <Sync> some random plates
[16:38:13] <Sync> they don't get hot
[16:38:32] <Sync> you have to make sure that you don't touch them for too long tho
[16:39:06] <fenn> wear mickey mouse gloves :)
[16:41:37] <ganzuul> Shouldn't alu reach thermal equilibrium faster than cast iron? So the entire block expands, but the surface isn't warped?
[16:41:52] <ganzuul> Would make sense with what XXCoder said.
[16:42:00] <fenn> yes
[16:42:37] <fenn> they use aluminum for grinding the granite because you want the abrasive grains to embed into the lap and not the surface plate, so it has to be made of softer material
[16:43:31] <fenn> abrasive probably wouldn't embed into granite, but it might in cast iron
[16:43:52] <Sync> yup
[16:44:14] <Sync> I just used SiC for the al plates
[16:44:18] <Sync> but it also embeds
[16:44:25] <Sync> so they are of no use
[16:44:27] <Sync> still fun
[16:44:46] <fenn> you can use them as masters to make working plates
[16:45:12] <fenn> also you can make a radio out of coconuts
[16:46:05] <Sync> yeah or I can have them oxidizing away in a corner
[16:46:35] <ganzuul> The area/pressure equation assumes the area is a perfect plane...
[16:47:07] <fenn> what's the surface area of a mandelbulb?
[16:47:22] <ganzuul> Very much high.
[16:53:19] <ganzuul> The automatic generation of gages thing says the plates have to be of equal size. It doesn't say they have to be the same material, right?
[16:53:49] <ganzuul> So I could save a lot of effort by having 2 alu and 1 granite/iron.
[16:54:29] <Contract_Pilot> Sup
[16:54:33] <ganzuul> o/
[16:55:04] <Sync> it should be the same
[16:55:19] <ganzuul> Same result or same material?
[16:55:23] <Sync> the material
[16:55:29] <Sync> otherwise it will wear differently
[16:55:31] <Contract_Pilot> got more packages today the 48V PSU for sure one of the motors orderd was a 78oz well they sent me a 425oz
[16:55:47] <Sync> lol
[16:55:59] <ganzuul> ...Wear? But you scrape.
[16:56:03] <ganzuul> not grind.
[16:56:08] <ganzuul> Right?
[16:56:15] <Contract_Pilot> Let see 2 wrong motors so far
[16:56:36] <fenn> the walmart 48V PSU's arrived here too, they look like decent quality construction so far
[16:56:46] <Contract_Pilot> Not going to complain only got it for the drivers. Still awaiting 2 motr motors.
[16:57:52] <Sync> ah, if you do the scraping method it will be fine ganzuul
[16:58:04] <ganzuul> \o/
[16:58:12] * ganzuul has won by being lazy!
[16:58:42] <Contract_Pilot> I could actually use the 425oz...
[16:59:05] <fenn> might be hard to mentally/physically adjust between different materials and not gouge the hell out of the plate
[16:59:19] <ganzuul> true that...
[17:00:05] <CaptHindsight> dat
[17:00:28] <fenn> werd
[17:02:32] <CaptHindsight> what's the best way to make a master surface plate when starting with nothing but a wooden table?
[17:02:47] <malcom2073> Lap three plates together
[17:03:13] <fenn> think really hard until you're in a universe that has more than just a wooden table
[17:03:19] <malcom2073> Heh that too
[17:03:34] <malcom2073> Sorry, didn't realize who asked :P
[17:04:28] <fenn> i'm thinking some optical interference method but i too dumb
[17:05:40] <ganzuul> Optical flats.
[17:05:56] <ganzuul> But they are for small things.
[17:05:56] <fenn> no something like an autocollimator
[17:06:40] <CaptHindsight> if using polymer concrete or polymer granite for machine base do you bother making the linear bearing contact areas as flat as possible or just shim (or similar) until the linear movements are flat and true?
[17:06:54] <fenn> you drive the autocollimator target around on your plate and it maps out the first derivative of the surface
[17:08:05] <fenn> CaptHindsight: you can inject moglice or some other granite powder+epoxy under the linear bearings while they're shimmed straight
[17:08:43] <fenn> thinner is better because epoxy is not nearly as stiff as granite
[17:09:02] <fenn> and it has different thermal coefficient
[17:09:28] <fenn> i'm assuming the filler has a higher epoxy/granite ratio than the bulk of the base
[17:09:36] <ganzuul> " The measurement resolution of a basic interferometer will still be limited by the wavelength of visible light. However more advanced techniques (such as looping the beam back and reflecting it twice) even allow nanoscale distances to be measured." - http://hackaday.com/2015/09/30/teeny-tiny-very-small-atomic-resolution-and-the-home-hobbyist/
[17:12:58] <t12> what malcom said
[17:14:12] <ganzuul> Optical... windlass.
[17:14:46] * ganzuul is just adding words together.
[17:14:58] <fenn> it sounded promising
[17:15:30] <ganzuul> Maybe a laser tweezer kind of thing?
[17:15:55] <CaptHindsight> what's the most foolproof way for someone to cast a flat a surface as possible polymer concrete or granite in the average garage?
[17:15:59] <ganzuul> Tune the phase of a standing wave.
[17:16:12] <Contract_Pilot> the 2 incorrect motors are left correct is right http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Motors-Drivers-Walmart-1024x576.jpg
[17:16:26] <ganzuul> CaptHindsight: Mix it with lots and lots of alcohol.
[17:16:52] <fenn> CaptHindsight: a correctly shimmed and grouted sheet of plate glass on the floor with some dams around it
[17:17:13] <fenn> checking the glass with a precision straight edge
[17:17:19] <CaptHindsight> figure the skill level of the craftsman being somewhere between a reprap genius and welder/woodworker
[17:18:28] <Sync> fenn: interferometer
[17:18:53] <Contract_Pilot> 48V 10A PSU cover removed http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/48V-10A-PSU-1024x576.jpg
[17:19:34] <CaptHindsight> fenn: most won't have a precision straight edge
[17:19:40] <Sync> you can buy them
[17:19:43] <fenn> gotta get one
[17:20:06] <fenn> they're $65 for 3ft or $80 for 4ft
[17:20:29] <fenn> if you're more cost sensitive than that you shouldn't be using epoxy
[17:20:38] <Sync> yep
[17:20:48] <Sync> getting the right aggregate is expensive
[17:20:56] <Sync> and if you don't use it you can use straight epoxy
[17:20:59] <CaptHindsight> tough in a world where $10 for bearing is considered pricey
[17:21:12] <Praesmeodymium> Contract_Pilot: looking really closely at mine I see the mfg seal was broken befor I unscrew
[17:21:26] <Praesmeodymium> little tape job
[17:21:29] <fenn> CaptHindsight: i'm thinking about glass fiber reinforced concrete
[17:22:11] <fenn> my theory is that the supposed instabilities due to curing of reinforced concrete are actually due to thermal fluctuations and the difference in expansion coefficient between steel and aggregate
[17:22:28] <Sync> well, performance is expensive after all :/
[17:22:31] <Praesmeodymium> and i have a bent corneer
[17:22:46] <Sync> I wonder why all the people expect their cheap homebrew machines to actually work well
[17:23:00] <fenn> because sometimes cheap homebrew things work well
[17:23:36] <Sync> for a lot of things, sure
[17:23:47] <fenn> problem is most of the reprap and low cost 3d printers are designed poorly
[17:23:54] <Contract_Pilot> Bent corrent not bad you should see the large cap on mine looks like somone crushed it with pliers
[17:23:57] <fenn> there's no reason they have to be bad though
[17:24:07] <ganzuul> fenn: Not sure if quantum effects will allow an optical windlass to exist. Say you have circular polarization and...
[17:24:10] <ganzuul> actually
[17:24:29] <fenn> differential optical pressure
[17:24:42] <fenn> you know how a stepper motor is sort of like a vernier caliper?
[17:24:57] <ganzuul> There is a supercontinuum effect which might allow for a continously tunable laser.
[17:25:18] <Praesmeodymium> finally openwe got very different hdw
[17:25:35] * fenn looks inside
[17:26:15] <ganzuul> Quantum effects say you'd have to pick a discrete energy level, but in a supercontinuum (spectrally pure white light) that is not the case.
[17:27:40] <Loetmichel> *ha, got the notebook running with lubuntu 14.04.. even firefox runs (kind of) and abiword even runs smooth!... only todos are the audio and some better x driver for that sorry excuse of a "gpu"... and all that on a 366MHz pII with 544MB ram ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15999&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:27:41] <ganzuul> The laser self-modulates in the supercontinuum, but differential pressure, as you say, in addition with a laser mode such as circular polarization at two different wavelengths might, somewhere, allow for this optical windlass effect.
[17:27:47] <Praesmeodymium> Contract_Pilot: http://imgur.com/bq8IigJ inside of my 48v 10a
[17:28:18] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/48V-PSU-Crushed-Cap-1024x576.jpg
[17:29:48] <ganzuul> Could make the sensing part of supercontinuum spectral imaging much easier. - Just tune the light across the entire band and see when what lights up.
[17:30:31] <ganzuul> ...Since apparently free electron lasers aren't making waves.
[17:31:35] <ganzuul> Mind you, just banging words together here. :P
[17:31:57] * ganzuul is a lexographic supercollider
[17:31:57] <Contract_Pilot> Yours has a lot less componants
[17:32:32] <Praesmeodymium> and some electronics
[17:32:39] <Contract_Pilot> Nice face Nippon caps hahaha
[17:33:52] <fenn> mine also have the broken QC/warranty sticker. i have 2 models here, S-480-48 and S-500-48. the 500 is heavier
[17:34:53] <Contract_Pilot> I ahve the S-500-48
[17:35:01] <Praesmeodymium> on my box it says s4810-10
[17:35:47] <Contract_Pilot> Same is Marked on Mine S-4810-10A
[17:35:47] <fenn> yeah the S-500-48 boxes have that checked
[17:36:34] <Praesmeodymium> oh silvr on the side yeah I have s500-48
[17:37:21] <Contract_Pilot> S-500-48 On the PSU itself
[17:37:49] <Contract_Pilot> But not bad a Down Grade on a Motor and a Up grade on a motor.
[17:38:38] <Contract_Pilot> But the Downgrade the title said Nema 34 but the Discription said 24 with the 35 Specs
[17:39:16] <Contract_Pilot> I could care less it is on ebay somone will ofer me somthing for it.
[17:39:49] <Contract_Pilot> But the nema23 425 that I can use for sure.
[17:40:05] <Praesmeodymium> yeah I would assume the same torque on a smaller motor is a better motor
[17:41:19] <Contract_Pilot> A lot longer.
[17:43:03] <Contract_Pilot> I recap all my China PSU's the one I use currently for the 12V 20A got for my ham got a set of Rubycon caps and been running for years
[17:43:52] <Contract_Pilot> I also like the Panasonic FC series
[17:50:01] <Contract_Pilot> When they ship they could atleast use bubble bags
[17:50:15] <Wolf_> damn :/ http://baltimore.craigslist.org/tls/5254662897.html
[17:50:34] <Contract_Pilot> This one they pushing to delivery date http://webtrack.dhlglobalmail.com/?trackingnumber=9361269903500579362566
[17:50:48] <Contract_Pilot> Whats up Wolf?
[17:51:22] <Wolf_> not much, messing about w/ circuit schematics
[17:57:40] <Contract_Pilot> They send you some for that drive?
[17:57:49] <Wolf_> naa
[17:57:51] <Contract_Pilot> or you reversing it?
[17:58:22] <Wolf_> playing with the schematic for the stmbl driver board
[17:58:37] <Contract_Pilot> stmbl driver board?
[17:59:01] <Wolf_> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl/
[17:59:15] <malcom2073> Wolf_: Do it!
[17:59:19] <malcom2073> Also, talk to Sync about stmbl
[17:59:39] <Wolf_> already have :P
[17:59:45] <malcom2073> Nice
[18:00:06] <Wolf_> ssi ordered the boards already
[18:00:12] <malcom2073> Nice
[18:00:27] <malcom2073> He get them fully assembled, or is he building them up himself?
[18:00:47] <Wolf_> bare
[18:01:47] <Wolf_> right now I’m working on cleaning up the schem so I can generate a BOM that will work on digikey :)
[18:01:57] <malcom2073> Nice
[18:03:16] <Wolf_> seeing that I have 3x nema 34 200v servo motors sitting here :D
[18:03:51] <Wolf_> I wanna see how far the x2 can throw the table
[18:09:34] <CaptHindsight> what's the average price of 1/2" plate glass ~24" x 36" or ~12" x 36"?
[18:10:29] <CaptHindsight> can you count on the average person to shim thinner glass to a straight edge?
[18:11:11] <Contract_Pilot> Anyone have a real M542 V2.0 to compare with the MB450A?
[18:12:11] <Wolf_> I have the longs motor M542
[18:12:20] <Contract_Pilot> I almost have enough to get these sherline's up one stop at the junk store for surplus cable and yep may get movement tonight.
[18:12:37] <Contract_Pilot> Wolf crack it open take a photo.
[18:12:55] <Wolf_> lol, not easy to do
[18:13:17] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/iAeCFWH.jpg
[18:13:23] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Sumtor-elec-microstep-driver-MB450A-AKA-M542.jpg
[18:14:45] <Contract_Pilot> PCB looks good for 8-12.00 walmart drivers
[18:16:34] <Contract_Pilot> Would Like to make a blog post on all the clones va real.
[18:16:49] <Contract_Pilot> But have to shower and get to post office bbl
[18:32:29] <PetefromTn_> I'm an idiot...
[18:32:34] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[18:32:56] <PetefromTn_> I have to machine this part the hard way which is a lathe part
[18:33:05] <PetefromTn_> and I am currently Latheless
[18:33:19] <PetefromTn_> so I put it in the mill vise and machined a boss on top of the stock
[18:33:30] <PetefromTn_> so I can hold it in my ER collet holders
[18:33:36] <Wolf_> lol
[18:33:37] <PetefromTn_> I machined the boss to be 1"
[18:33:57] <PetefromTn_> only problem is I don't have a 1" ER32 collet LOL
[18:34:17] <Wolf_> yeah, they don’t even go that big do they
[18:35:23] <PetefromTn_> nope I think they only go to 7/8 or so LOL
[18:35:28] <PetefromTn_> what a jackhole LOL
[18:39:07] <CaptHindsight> well maybe a Howto on a DIY polymer machine base is asking too much
[19:00:12] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: 1" em holder?
[19:00:23] <PetefromTn_> don't have
[19:00:29] <zeeshan|2> =/
[19:00:32] <zeeshan|2> how about this
[19:00:42] <PetefromTn_> just gonna take it down to 3/4
[19:00:43] <zeeshan|2> machine the boss to 7/8?
[19:00:46] <zeeshan|2> okay :P
[19:00:47] <PetefromTn_> its still in the machine
[19:01:14] <malcom2073> zeeshan|2: You get unloaded?
[19:01:19] <zeeshan|2> so
[19:01:21] <zeeshan|2> no
[19:01:25] <malcom2073> Erm, is the truck still there?
[19:01:26] <zeeshan|2> im going thursday to remove parts from it
[19:01:27] <zeeshan|2> and make it lighter
[19:01:29] <malcom2073> Ohhh
[19:01:33] <zeeshan|2> and they will bring it fri
[19:01:37] <zeeshan|2> nah they took it to their storage
[19:01:43] <zeeshan|2> they arent charging me much for it
[19:01:47] <malcom2073> That's good at least
[19:01:50] <zeeshan|2> plus hes happy with keeping the spindle motor and conveyor
[19:01:59] <malcom2073> Ohhh you're giving those to him? That helps heh
[19:02:06] <zeeshan|2> yea
[19:02:13] <zeeshan|2> and he's letting me use his fork lift
[19:02:18] <zeeshan|2> to disassemble the machine
[19:02:20] <zeeshan|2> really nice guys..
[19:02:34] <malcom2073> Freaking canadians man, even the riggers are cool
[19:02:34] <malcom2073> :P
[19:02:59] <malcom2073> See here, you would've lost the machine. They would've said remove it, or pay the guy hourly to sit until you do
[19:05:47] <PetefromTn_> I thought all canadians were azzholes ;)
[19:06:04] <malcom2073> Nah that's Americans you're thinking of :P
[19:06:23] <Wolf_> true
[19:06:24] <PetefromTn_> Naah certainly not
[19:06:29] * Wolf_ is a asshole
[19:06:32] <Wolf_> :D
[19:06:35] <PetefromTn_> well at least not MOST of us LOL
[19:09:38] <furrywolf> ... why would you not want the spindle motor?
[19:11:00] <furrywolf> I can see deciding a chip conveyor isn't useful for your application (although I'd keep it), but a working spindle is pretty useful, and big motors are very expensive...
[19:12:20] <malcom2073> iirc he decided he'd never be able to convince the city to provide him enough power to run it :P
[19:12:32] <PetefromTn_> he can't run it so he is going to go to a smaller one
[19:13:00] <furrywolf> ... so don't load it up to full load? :P
[19:13:33] <furrywolf> "The legislation by Democratic Sen. Hannah-Beth Jackson of Santa Barbara lets female employees allege pay discrimination based on the wages a company pays to other employees who do substantially similar work.
[19:13:34] <furrywolf> The legislation also puts the burden on employers to prove a man's higher pay is based on factors other than gender."
[19:13:44] <furrywolf> you know, I'm rather a feminist, and even I think that's fucking stupid.
[19:14:42] * furrywolf hopes some men decide to sue the state for being discriminated against by a law that only helps women
[19:15:07] <malcom2073> Heh
[19:15:18] <malcom2073> Never happen, sex discrimination only goes one way
[19:15:26] <malcom2073> Like pretty much any form of discrimination
[19:16:47] <malcom2073> If party A has been discriminated against by party B anytime in ever, it has free reign to A: cry discrimination anytime it wants something, and B: discriminate without recource
[19:20:08] <CaptHindsight> I thought it was already illegal to discriminate on the basis of sex, color, creed and shoe size
[19:20:34] <malcom2073> Lots of things are illegal
[19:20:46] <malcom2073> Doesn't mean people don't do them
[19:20:47] <CaptHindsight> yeah, what's with that?
[19:21:18] <CaptHindsight> what's wrong with the old laws on discrimination?
[19:21:21] <furrywolf> sounds to me a lot like the employer is being presumed guilty unless proven innocent... isn't there somewhere that says that's not how it works?
[19:21:38] <CaptHindsight> no, that's no longer true
[19:21:45] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: They don't work because people don't follow them
[19:21:48] <malcom2073> easy solution: More laws
[19:22:11] <malcom2073> furrywolf: That's very Party A of you.
[19:22:44] <CaptHindsight> property may even be seized when illegal activity is suspected or fabricated
[19:24:24] <SpeedEvil> for added fun, you don't prosecute the person, you prosecute the property.
[19:24:52] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: does it specifically say ' a mans' ?
[19:25:04] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I happen to have been reading UK equaliy law.
[19:25:24] <SpeedEvil> Apparantly it is not a disability if you habitually set fire to government ministers. A position I wholly agree with.
[19:26:08] <SpeedEvil> Legislation has a shitty patch format.
[19:26:32] <CaptHindsight> obsessive compulsive government minister pyrotechnics disorder
[19:26:55] <CaptHindsight> but that might only apply to explosions
[19:28:02] <SpeedEvil> Pyromania/cleptomania / exhebitionism/voyeurism are specifically called out as 'not actual disabilities'
[19:29:15] <furrywolf> "Collectively, women working full time in California lose approximately $33,650,294,544 each year due to the gender wage gap." looks like they forgot the approximate number of cents.
[19:29:33] <furrywolf> when I see things like that, I immediately dislike the author.
[19:30:13] <SpeedEvil> yeah. Especially lacking the +-10 billion
[19:30:39] <SpeedEvil> Gender pay gap is a real thing - but it's tricky to say if the law should simply ignore childcare.
[19:31:08] <fenn> just get germany to pay for it
[19:31:24] <t12> just take it out of apples tax haven
[19:31:34] <furrywolf> yes, it's a real thing. An unconstitutional bullshit law written by someone who fails to understand statistics is not the solution.
[19:32:33] <CaptHindsight> flat taxes and flat wages, then nobody can complain.... no wait
[19:32:49] <malcom2073> "Yes it's wrong, but that is not the solution" <- Proper response to 99% of laws ever
[19:33:07] <fenn> a castle and a banquet for every robot! robotocracy 2016 who's with me
[19:33:16] <CaptHindsight> this topic just doesn't make me outraged enough
[19:33:33] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: What can I throw into it to make it more appealing to you?
[19:33:34] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: you must not be an employer.
[19:33:41] <malcom2073> Anti-vaxxers?
[19:34:08] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: toss in some immigration and wars in the middle east
[19:34:15] <furrywolf> as one, I now have to keep bullshit records of gender vs pay, at my expense, and face the possibility of random idiotic lawsuits that require me to prove my innocence or I'm presumed guilty.
[19:34:23] <malcom2073> Ah excellent. We should shoot all illegals, and nuke the middle east then move in and take the oil
[19:34:32] <malcom2073> Wait now I sound like trump
[19:34:56] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Easy solution: Hire all men, or all women
[19:35:02] * furrywolf decides to only ever hire butch dykes
[19:35:05] <malcom2073> Probably easier to justify that, than wage differences
[19:35:13] <t12> furrywolf: that does not alleviate the problem
[19:35:32] <t12> as many 99.9% male heavy labor kinda unions have discovered
[19:35:47] <fenn> what if the butch dyke identifies as a man, is that covered by the law?
[19:35:58] <furrywolf> lol
[19:36:00] <t12> that would be pretty lol
[19:36:05] <t12> but, shes a man!
[19:36:06] <t12> i mean hes a man
[19:36:13] <t12> by definition not discriminating now?
[19:36:16] <CaptHindsight> just pay them based on how many rocks, sticks, hockey sticks they pile up in an 8 hour period
[19:36:27] <t12> piecework for everyopne
[19:36:29] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: That discriminates against physically handicapped people
[19:36:51] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: they get a handicap
[19:36:53] <t12> i have these weird hakko soldering irons
[19:36:56] <t12> with lockout cards
[19:36:58] <malcom2073> Heh...
[19:37:03] <t12> to keep peicework people from cheating by turning the irons up
[19:37:04] <furrywolf> laws that require people to prove innocence piss me off.
[19:37:07] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: I'm ashamed to admit I actually laughed at that
[19:38:24] <malcom2073> I wonder what will happen once we as a collective society suddenly realize that not all people are equal in allways
[19:38:37] <furrywolf> t12: worst part is, hotter irons used faster make better joints.
[19:38:55] <t12> temp related part failure
[19:39:01] <furrywolf> of course not all people aren't equal. and tweekers don't even count as people.
[19:39:18] <malcom2073> furrywolf: That's discrimination
[19:39:21] <furrywolf> t12: the part sees the same temp with a hotter iron used for a shorter period of time.
[19:39:44] <furrywolf> it takes time for heat to travel to the part. :)
[19:40:34] <SpeedEvil> I found it was quite possible to solder to batteries, done fast.
[19:41:01] <SpeedEvil> Clean scrupulously and wipe a teeny layer of flux on the battery. Now, tin heavily a soldering iron pointing up, and apply battery to it for 0.5s
[19:41:14] <SpeedEvil> you can immediately touch the soldered layer.
[19:41:47] <SpeedEvil> now, simply solder a flat copper strip to it using a similar technique
[19:42:07] <fenn> what kind of battery was that
[19:42:16] <malcom2073> car battery
[19:42:32] <fenn> lemon with wires jabbed into it
[19:42:39] <furrywolf> lol. I got something with an LED that lights with either polarity applied. the LED has two dies in the same package, the same color, wired anti-parallel. I guess LED dies are cheaper than bridge rectifiers...
[19:43:17] <SpeedEvil> 18650
[19:43:50] <CaptHindsight> how about just tack welding joints and connections with lasers?
[19:44:12] <fenn> usually they are spot welded with nickel plated (?) ribbon
[19:44:17] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: I have been pondering getting a 6W laser to use a soldering iron
[19:44:22] <SpeedEvil> fenn: yes, I know
[19:44:41] <SpeedEvil> fenn: on actualy checking the heat input, I'm not sure teh two methods are not more or less equivalent
[19:45:03] <fenn> i don't know much about it
[19:45:37] <fenn> 18650's are pretty awesome though
[19:46:18] <furrywolf> buy real japanese ones and they're even more awesome.
[19:46:27] <Wolf_> resistance welder made from caps
[19:46:33] <Wolf_> for welding battery tabs
[19:46:52] <fenn> i got a big box of new old stock laptop batteries with sanyo 18650's in them (after peeling off the plastic casing)
[19:47:24] <furrywolf> I've been buying the 3400mah panasonic cells lately... they're pricey but work really well.
[19:47:53] <fenn> i don't really see the point of spending 10x more for 50% more capacity
[19:47:56] <CaptHindsight> t12: soldering irons with lockouts?
[19:48:11] <furrywolf> they're only 3x more, and you get a lot more than 3x the cycle life.
[19:48:19] <furrywolf> and about .0003x the random failures
[19:48:28] <fenn> vs what?
[19:48:29] <CaptHindsight> t12: to prevent unofficial soldering?
[19:48:35] <furrywolf> vs generic chinese cells
[19:49:01] <fenn> oh but my chinese 18650's have over 9000 mAh
[19:49:12] <furrywolf> also, keep in mine most chinese cells have utterly bullshit capacities printed on them.
[19:49:12] <furrywolf> lol
[19:49:15] <furrywolf> s/mine/mind
[19:50:05] <furrywolf> the best luck with chinese cells I've had are the trustfire flames from dx, but I've had a couple of them randomly die, but never a panasonic.
[19:51:46] <furrywolf> I've never had an ebay chinese laptop pack have anywhere near its rated capacity, nor last more than 50 cycles.
[19:57:10] * furrywolf goes back to working on supercapacitor banks while listening to music. (current random song: A Pale Horse Named Death - Heroin Train)
[20:09:12] <furrywolf> one of my sansuis is developing a rattle... will need to fix that.
[20:13:58] <CaptHindsight> ultrasonic welder for electrical connections https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rEDo-34tr8
[20:16:06] <furrywolf> hrmm, Blondie released a new album last year? *downloads*
[20:16:33] <furrywolf> or not. only torrent I'm finding is fucking flac.
[20:19:11] <CaptHindsight> Valen: what's your opinion on getting the surface of a resin/granite machine base flat vs just shimming the linear supports and bearings?
[20:19:30] <Valen> making it flat would be very hard
[20:19:41] <Valen> you aren't going to be able to scrape it or anything like that
[20:19:57] <CaptHindsight> too difficult for the average hobbyist either way?
[20:20:12] <Valen> it depends on what you want as your end result really
[20:20:16] <CaptHindsight> cast on plate glass?
[20:20:17] <Valen> step 1 define flat ;->
[20:20:28] <furrywolf> plate glass is smooth, not flat.
[20:20:42] <Valen> If glass is flat enough for you then sure you won't have any troubles
[20:20:49] <Wolf_> best way might be to float coat the top of the base
[20:20:50] <furrywolf> it's quite flexible, and will take on the shape of whatever's under it. not good for making large things flat.
[20:20:52] <Valen> it's pretty wavy though as a rulr
[20:21:00] <Valen> rule
[20:21:54] <Valen> Our plan was to cast it as close as possible, then put a self levelling layer of non shrink epoxy over it (like a mm thick), then put the rails on, line them up and back fill with a super skinny epoxy
[20:22:04] <CaptHindsight> vs all the awful DIY lathe and mill designs that get discussed
[20:22:52] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/zbGcPxo - on windpower.
[20:23:38] <fenn> does "self leveling" really work though?
[20:23:44] <furrywolf> make three beds at once and lap them together.
[20:23:47] <Valen> The other thing you could do with a layer of filled epoxy is sand it
[20:24:03] <furrywolf> no. self-levelling suffers from surface tension, viscoscity, etc.
[20:24:04] <Valen> should be similar to scraping I presume
[20:24:43] <Valen> furrywolf: the self leveling epoxies are pretty good, most of the error would be rippling as it shrinks during cure
[20:25:49] <Valen> its not going to be perfect in an as cured state, the surface would be rippled in the 10's of mm scale, but over a meter or so it should be "flat"
[20:26:36] <Wolf_> grrr why are all teh damn 25A20 drivers so expensive
[20:26:43] * Wolf_ blames zeeshan|2
[20:26:54] <furrywolf> I like my idea. make three machines at once and lap them together. :P
[20:27:06] <CaptHindsight> I formulate epoxies and resins so I'm not concerned about them, I'm more concerned about reducing the amount of user error
[20:27:32] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: :)
[20:27:41] <fenn> if you could do it by "self leveling" that would take a lot of stupid error out of the process
[20:27:52] <furrywolf> you'll get all three nice and flat.
[20:28:13] <SpeedEvil> self leveling only works when time / viscosity^2 / thickness is below a constant or something like that
[20:28:56] <fenn> it's necessary in all cases to have a way of measuring the actual flatness/straightness of the thing you're building, otherwise it's just wild guesses and superstition
[20:29:19] <CaptHindsight> low enough viscosity vs shrink vs gel time
[20:29:36] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: yeah - something like that
[20:29:36] <CaptHindsight> with a long gel time it will level quite well
[20:29:39] <Valen> well if you are making your own one, and are happy to do multiple layers you want something that'll stick like crazy, not shrink and be amenable to some form of sanding/filing/whatever
[20:30:08] <Valen> yeah we were looking at 1 hour cure stuff as I recall, viscosity was something like motor oil
[20:30:48] <furrywolf> dump a bottle of motor oil upside down. wait an hour. there will still be some left in it. :P
[20:30:52] <SpeedEvil> If you have nonzero shrinkage after the viscosity rises during cure, you need to keep constantish section
[20:31:10] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: that's not how it works.
[20:31:30] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: the flow gets lots easier as the thickness of the flowing film rises
[20:31:41] <Valen> furrywolf: yeah, but the beaker you have poured it into will be pretty level ;-P
[20:31:51] <SpeedEvil> once it's down to a few um, it's utterly dominated by surfaces
[20:32:03] <SpeedEvil> At a few mm, or cm, surfaces are very far away
[20:32:31] * SpeedEvil imagines lathes with mercury ways.
[20:32:52] <Valen> I wonder how well an Epoxy granite surface cast off a surface plate would go
[20:33:08] <Valen> I mean how wrong it'd be
[20:33:11] <SpeedEvil> make very sure to remember the release plate.
[20:33:17] <Valen> heh ;->
[20:33:19] <SpeedEvil> ^compound
[20:33:25] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: except he wants to put on a layer "(like a mm thick)"
[20:33:44] <SpeedEvil> I have questions as to how well it'll work at 1mm.
[20:33:54] <CaptHindsight> teflon surface plate
[20:34:00] <Valen> a mm thick with a viscosity of engine oil and an hour long cure should suffice
[20:34:09] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: bendy surface plates are best.
[20:34:12] <Valen> it'd be distorted at the boundaries of course
[20:34:23] <furrywolf> I've ran vehicles with oil that'd take an hour just to run out of the oil pan if it was cold... :P
[20:34:33] <CaptHindsight> slide sideways to remove
[20:34:43] <furrywolf> 50% 20w50 and 50% Lucas... :P
[20:34:58] <SpeedEvil> Epoxy-granite depends on the loading.
[20:35:03] <fenn> probably want a cast-in air port to separate it from the table
[20:35:08] <SpeedEvil> I wish pressing was a little bit easier.
[20:35:48] <SpeedEvil> Just putting in granite gravel, epoxy, and then pressing so that the granite is all in contact
[20:36:05] <Valen> SpeedEvil: vac bag?
[20:36:10] <Valen> I'd love to apply the methods of optics to something like making a surface plate
[20:36:13] <SpeedEvil> Valen: Err - no.
[20:36:28] <SpeedEvil> Valen: I mean pressing hard enough to fracture the high spots
[20:36:43] <fenn> how hard do you press?
[20:36:45] <Valen> I mean they make things 10's of CM (or 10's of meters) in size accurate to 1/10th of a wavelength of light
[20:36:46] <SpeedEvil> and actually squeeze out the epoxy.
[20:37:03] <SpeedEvil> fenn: at basically the ultimate strength of granite.
[20:37:03] <Valen> if you are pressing hard enough to break the rock, pretty darn hard
[20:37:14] <SpeedEvil> (it's entirely impractical)
[20:37:16] <furrywolf> meh. I'm utterly failing at finding torrents today. suggestions for torrent site with a good selection of music torrents? kickass.to is finding nothing I'm looking for, with the rare exception of finding a torrent... that's old and has no seeds.
[20:37:19] <fenn> this seems impractical for sure
[20:37:32] <Valen> I don't really see the point of it tbh
[20:37:50] <Valen> to my mind half the advantage of EG is the vibration dampening
[20:37:56] <SpeedEvil> I've also been wondering about vacuum impregnating concrete. I may be wierd.
[20:38:32] <fenn> half the advantage of EG is the lack of stupidly huge infrastructure
[20:38:39] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:38:51] <CaptHindsight> dampening and it's easy to ship in precast form
[20:39:05] <SpeedEvil> Something amuses me about an EG setup that is actually more complex to do than just pouring cast iron
[20:40:46] <Valen> you can get straight up granite flats from china to arbitrary flatness for rather cheap sums these days
[20:40:52] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:40:56] <furrywolf> for example, I want an album by The Eyeliners... kickass.to has a torrent of it! ... 9 years old and no seeds.
[20:41:01] <CaptHindsight> room temp casting vs portable furnace
[20:41:46] <Valen> furrywolf: tpb?
[20:41:59] <furrywolf> tpb rarely has music I want.
[20:42:31] <CaptHindsight> soviet mp3 sites all gone?
[20:43:13] <furrywolf> dunno. "all" is hard to check. :P
[20:43:13] <fenn> try napster, i hear all the college kids are using it
[20:43:18] <furrywolf> lol
[20:43:25] <Valen> old school, google + "filetype:mp3"
[20:43:42] <furrywolf> I almost got a tour of the napster building... but about two days before the tour they got shut down, cancelled it...
[20:43:42] <SpeedEvil> Home taping is killing music.
[20:43:56] <CaptHindsight> cccmp3
[20:44:07] <Valen> how do they "flatten" granite plates?
[20:44:13] <SpeedEvil> Valen: grinding
[20:44:21] <Wolf_> such deal http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Advanced-Motion-Controls-B25A20FACQ-Brushless-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-Drive-/400339978131?hash=item5d361f4793
[20:44:28] <furrywolf> Valen: 3-way lapping
[20:44:36] <SpeedEvil> Valen: you can take three granite plates, and with a modest amount of abrasive, and moving them in the right patterms, get three flat plates
[20:44:39] <furrywolf> (for really, really flat ones)
[20:44:52] <Valen> I figured as much
[20:44:59] <CaptHindsight> Valen: I use granite surface plates from China since the disti is an hour drive away from me
[20:45:21] <Valen> I reckon that's the ticket for doing accurate accurate EG
[20:45:44] <Valen> Our other thought was to just cast a block of iron into it and using that as the surface
[20:45:53] <furrywolf> grrr, and tpb only gives magnet links now.
[20:46:01] <Valen> what's wrong with that?
[20:46:09] <fenn> i don't think they do the 3 plate method because the slab bends under gravity and is only flat when supported on 3 points
[20:46:11] <CaptHindsight> Valen: the challenge was starting with tools in average garage/basement
[20:46:11] <SpeedEvil> Valen: Annoying if iron and epoxy do not have identical CTEs
[20:46:32] <Valen> They are actually fairly close when we measured ours
[20:46:51] <furrywolf> Valen: I've never gotten a magnet url to work, ever.
[20:47:04] <Valen> wth client are you using?
[20:47:11] <Valen> they always work for me
[20:47:13] <furrywolf> ktorrent at the moment
[20:47:27] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf has dialup internet from 1996, via pluto.
[20:47:28] <CaptHindsight> I hear they work well with deluge
[20:47:36] <Valen> transmission, I've never had a problem with magnet links
[20:47:37] <fenn> i thought kde was evil and installed gigabits of bloat
[20:47:49] <CaptHindsight> it is
[20:47:52] <CaptHindsight> and it does
[20:47:53] <malcom2073> fenn: That's very 2002 of you :P
[20:47:55] <furrywolf> fenn: yes. which is why the systems I care about don't have it. lol
[20:47:55] <fenn> (according to furry)
[20:48:02] <furrywolf> I don't even remember why there's kde stuff on this one.
[20:48:05] <malcom2073> Conveniently, that's also the last time furry updated :P
[20:48:37] <CaptHindsight> not sure what ubuntu 6 used :)
[20:49:42] <Valen> speaking of our CnC machines are now bitching about running 10.04
[20:50:03] <furrywolf> why can you get mindless TV with thousands of seeders, but music is so damn hard to find these days?
[20:50:04] <Valen> is there a newer release of EMC?
[20:50:16] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: youtube
[20:50:25] <Valen> because the music you want is only listened to by old people ;-P
[20:51:16] <malcom2073> Valen: Nope, but LinuxCNC just released a 2.7 version
[20:52:11] <furrywolf> Valen: one of the albums I'm trying to find is some new Flotsam and Jetsam. usually considered thrash or power metal. not typical old people music...
[20:52:20] <CaptHindsight> would a DIY EG Howto end up making a lathe or mill any better than what people end up with when they just use T-slot?
[20:53:05] <Valen> malcom2073: that an "unstable" even/odd release thing?
[20:53:36] <Valen> I'd like one, specifically about the resins used, suppliers for it, and equivalents
[20:53:37] <malcom2073> Don't know how they do that
[20:53:40] <CaptHindsight> maybe just precast machine bases with linear bearings pre-installed
[20:53:54] <Valen> also I'd like to see how it actually performed in the end
[20:53:56] <furrywolf> I have pretty wide tastes in music. I don't only like old stuff, despite what a lot of people claim. :P
[20:54:01] <fenn> CaptHindsight: even if it were as inaccurate as the t-slot, it would at least be able to take a decent sized cut without chattering to death
[20:54:17] <Valen> most build reports finish with a photo of the machine before it has actually cut anything
[20:54:36] <Valen> a "lessons learned" and "stuff I'd do to improve it" would be very great
[20:54:53] <furrywolf> "next time, I'd buy a tormach" :P
[20:55:04] <fenn> i'd like to see some quantitative measurements of stiffness, accuracy, damping, mass
[20:55:16] <Valen> +1
[20:55:27] <furrywolf> you do realize most people wouldn't have the tools nor skills to measure that, right?
[20:55:49] <fenn> stiffness is easy to measure
[20:55:50] <Valen> you don't actually need to measure most of those, just compare it to a known quantity
[20:55:58] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: i've wondered about EG + air bearing
[20:56:12] <Valen> we have some for thermal expansion and stiffness for our EG mix
[20:56:27] <Valen> we also added some carbon fibre to it, that made a difference ;->
[20:56:27] <CaptHindsight> I can formulate epoxies and urethanes over a wide range of specs, tensile strength, flex mod, hardness, elongation before break, etc etc to tune it for the aggregate and amount of dampening
[20:56:30] <furrywolf> Valen: subjective measurements suck. for example, I swear my $1000 speaker wires result in much better damping than my $50 monster cable speaker wires!
[20:56:37] <furrywolf> </audiophool>
[20:57:00] <Valen> furrywolf: not subjective, but comparative. IE we measured the stiffness with a dialguage on a bench
[20:57:02] <fenn> furrywolf don't forget the cable plinths for "ground isolation"
[20:57:19] <CaptHindsight> I only use copper pipe for speaker connections :)
[20:57:23] <furrywolf> Valen: comparatively measuring damping is hard. mass is easy, at least. :P
[20:57:33] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Do you fill them with magic smoke?
[20:57:39] <Valen> obviously its not going to be accurate enough for an absolute measurement, you need lasers and crap for that
[20:57:43] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: my speakers are wired with a mix of lamp cord and trailer wire. :P
[20:58:12] <Valen> but by comparing our 50x50mm bar of EG with a 50x50 steel bar back to back we get useful data
[20:58:26] <fenn> attach a microphone to it, drop a hammer of known mass from a known distance onto the machine
[20:58:49] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: oh no, nitrogen, since it's inert and so it doesn't effect the sound
[20:58:51] <fenn> attach said microphone to a block of cast iron, repeat
[20:58:52] * furrywolf watches it crack and unbelivable loud swearing result
[20:59:05] <Valen> I was thinking you'd need an accelerometer for that fenn?
[20:59:16] <fenn> that's basically what a microphone is
[20:59:16] <malcom2073> Hehe
[20:59:19] <furrywolf> "451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons" lol
[21:00:50] <Valen> yeah, but its harder to attach the diafram of a mic to your chunk of cast iron than an acceleromiter ;-P
[21:00:58] <SpeedEvil> The note tells you a hell of a lot
[21:01:07] <SpeedEvil> Specific stiffness / density or something
[21:01:13] <Valen> CaptHindsight: we also want to do EG + air bearings, but DIY air bearings don't seem to be a thing
[21:01:17] <furrywolf> I love the sound of Proto wrenches. :P
[21:01:39] <SpeedEvil> and decay tells you (for identically supported identical shapes) about damping
[21:02:21] <SpeedEvil> Valen: :)
[21:02:51] <SpeedEvil> Valen: I have in my sillier moments considered nice thick thermowood processed oak beams, with a nice coating of beeswax, as an air bearing surface.
[21:03:22] <Wolf_> I’m guessing DC201E25A20N is pretty much useless for lcnc
[21:03:35] <Valen> the surface is the easy part, its the bearing itself that seems hard
[21:03:43] <SpeedEvil> Valen: yeah
[21:04:05] <SpeedEvil> Valen: and the air delivery to them
[21:04:33] <fenn> how about sintered nylon
[21:04:42] <Valen> I believe that EDM graphite will do the job, but its hard to come by in australia
[21:04:46] <fenn> uh not nylon, something more stable than nylon
[21:04:56] <Valen> we tried sand but the pore size is too large
[21:05:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-OkMRjxdX0 Damper & Mounting Testing for air bearings
[21:05:45] <fenn> brass powder is a cheap paint ingredient, not sure what particle sizes it comes in
[21:06:20] <CaptHindsight> most often few micron to <100um
[21:09:27] <Valen> http://mechanosynthesis.mit.edu/journals/001_ahslocum_pe_03_axtrusion.pdf is how I want to do stuff
[21:09:38] <Valen> with epoxy granite rather than straight granite perhaps
[21:13:56] <fenn> if particle size doesn't matter too much then it might be a simple process of belt sanding $polymer and settling it out in a water/alcohol or water/sugar solution of appropriate density
[21:14:19] <fenn> then drying and sintering into bearing blocks
[21:14:58] <fenn> i'm not sure what particle size order of magnitude we're shooting for here
[21:15:03] <Valen> I think the pore size matters a whole bunch
[21:15:16] <Valen> really friggin tiny is the ideal ;->
[21:15:25] <fenn> that means nothing to me
[21:16:38] <CaptHindsight> the gap in air bearings are 15-25um
[21:17:36] <Valen> I believe pore sizes in the microns range is whats used in the graphite bearings
[21:18:11] <CaptHindsight> an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2B12U6NtQw Planar XY Air Bearing Stage
[21:18:59] <fenn> brass powder $13/lb on ebay is 325 mesh or < 44 micron
[21:19:03] <CaptHindsight> ^^ even tighter 5-15um
[21:20:41] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: the averaging is nice too
[21:22:03] <CaptHindsight> if you don't wait too long you can also pour EG with different types of epoxy
[21:22:39] <CaptHindsight> say something slightly more flexible in the center and harder with less flex at the surface
[21:23:36] <CaptHindsight> it will bond to itself well
[21:24:58] <CaptHindsight> from what I've seen the chemistry side hasn't been too well explored
[21:25:09] <fenn> is that to get around thermal expansion effects during curing?
[21:25:14] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: yeah - it's like that for everything
[21:25:33] <CaptHindsight> it's mostly been generic "epoxy" and different aggregates
[21:25:42] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: everyone explores the obvious routes which can be gotten off the shelf and used according to the manufacturers recommendations.
[21:26:08] <fenn> well chemistry is illegal so you have to
[21:26:14] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[21:26:18] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: bathroom silicone caulk and kevlar composite.
[21:26:52] <fenn> "it is a federal crime to use this product in a manner except as described"
[21:27:04] <CaptHindsight> I need a license to order some of the initiators
[21:27:04] <fenn> something like that
[21:27:17] <CaptHindsight> and it comes in a freezer truck
[21:27:41] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Is there a reason why 'photoinitiator for polyester/styrene systems' would not work with a random off-the-shelf 'fibreglass' resin?
[21:28:46] <CaptHindsight> depends on what the resin is... fiberglass resin vs gel coat vs vinyl ester
[21:29:01] <SpeedEvil> yeah - assuming regular, not gel coat or vinyl
[21:29:22] <CaptHindsight> most labeled "fiberglass resin" is unsaturated polyester
[21:29:25] <SpeedEvil> i'm wondering about a large drum of cheap resin, and several kilos of photoinitiator from alibaba
[21:30:35] <CaptHindsight> it's the details since you can end up with something that doesn't work with photoinitiators
[21:31:17] <SpeedEvil> i guess small quantities first, and try it, can't hurt.
[21:31:44] <SpeedEvil> Modulo Carcinogenicity or hulkgenicity.
[21:32:13] <CaptHindsight> it's the styrene
[21:32:43] <SpeedEvil> I've come to really like supplied air.
[21:32:52] <CaptHindsight> ammonium persulfate (circuit board etch) and polyester resin go boom when heated >40C
[21:33:39] <SpeedEvil> Actual explosions, or simply runaway polymerisation?
[21:33:56] <CaptHindsight> depends on the ratios :)
[21:34:37] <CaptHindsight> the runaway also makes for good Halloween smoke
[21:35:08] <fenn> nothing like a few good explosions to scare the kids
[21:35:21] <CaptHindsight> kids love ammonia
[21:35:22] <furrywolf> there's much cheaper ways to make explosions.
[21:36:33] <CaptHindsight> the vinyl ester kits come with MEKP
[21:37:03] <CaptHindsight> as do the fiberglass resin kits at Home Depot
[21:37:29] <SpeedEvil> It's not one of the real nasties. But it's quite nasty enough
[21:37:43] <fenn> smells like nerve damage
[21:38:01] <CaptHindsight> Lowes made me show ID and scanned it
[21:38:10] <furrywolf> lol
[21:38:22] <furrywolf> since when did hardware stores care what they sold?
[21:38:28] <CaptHindsight> not the case at Home Depot or Menards
[21:38:48] <CaptHindsight> Lowes must have some new paranoid management
[21:40:53] <furrywolf> next time, go "duuuude, you ever *twitch* huff this stuff... it gets you *pick at face* so fucking high it's *twitch* like totally awesome..."
[21:41:23] <CaptHindsight> not much left there for solvents
[21:41:31] <CaptHindsight> it getting to be like China
[21:41:47] * furrywolf has no idea what solvents are like in china
[21:42:18] <CaptHindsight> went to get gallon of MEK and they only had quarts of MEK substitute
[21:42:38] <CaptHindsight> no solvents sold at hardware stores in China
[21:43:13] <CaptHindsight> it's even hard to find IPA at pharmacies there
[21:43:20] <furrywolf> ... MEK substitute? wtf?
[21:43:36] <CaptHindsight> yeah, check Home depot next trip
[21:43:43] <furrywolf> there's no home depot here.
[21:44:13] <CaptHindsight> i think lacquer thinner is only in quarts now there
[21:44:14] <fenn> what's with no solvents in china?
[21:44:45] <fenn> don't they dump barrels of stuff into the river?
[21:45:05] <CaptHindsight> Acetone is ok since congress has designated it exempt from being a high vapor pressure solvent
[21:45:09] <furrywolf> they don't want you interfering with the state monopoly on polluting.
[21:45:32] <CaptHindsight> fenn: yes, but they make it hard for the average person to buy and ship any liquids
[21:46:17] <CaptHindsight> i can easily order drums of it for export but it's difficult to transport there in any volume
[21:46:56] <CaptHindsight> it requires a certificate from the manufacturer for shipping
[21:47:21] <CaptHindsight> so from warehouse to one locations is ok, but then it's stuck there
[21:47:40] <t12> the solvent think is way annoying
[21:47:41] <CaptHindsight> the certificate is no good from point B to C
[21:47:50] <fenn> huh so venting to the atmosphere is ok then?
[21:48:49] <fenn> i don't even understand how it works in america
[21:48:52] <CaptHindsight> for trade shows I ship it from the US direct to the show, even though it started out in China
[21:49:26] <CaptHindsight> I can't take it from one city to the next by bus or train
[21:50:21] <CaptHindsight> t12: any liquid other than water (or maybe tea, soda etc)
[21:50:57] <CaptHindsight> they never took my scotch however
[21:51:15] <fenn> just make sure to add alcohol to all of your epoxies
[21:51:42] <t12> hard candy
[21:52:11] <CaptHindsight> we had to jump through all sorts of hoops with their EPA equivalent
[21:53:01] <CaptHindsight> but we were a new company, they only crack down on older co's when they decide to investigate or they don't like you
[21:53:44] <t12> whats the rationale
[21:55:05] * furrywolf still doesn't see how you can make a MEK substitute
[21:55:17] <furrywolf> that sounds like tofu burgers... it may claim to be a substitute, but it's not.
[21:55:24] <CaptHindsight> on liquids it's supposedly about terrorism/bombings, on pollution it seems that if you're new you have to have controls on hazardous waste
[21:56:35] <CaptHindsight> they are starting with that and then now slowly putting pressure on big polluters
[21:57:05] <CaptHindsight> where the fines are stiffer than the money saved by just polluting
[21:57:29] <furrywolf> googling says the substitute is ethyl acetate, a chemical I'm not familiar with.
[21:58:12] <Valen> I'm waiting for some baddie to hijack a petrol tanker, add a firefighting pump and go to town through a city
[21:58:28] <furrywolf> googling also suggests it is, as I suspected, in absolutely no way a substitute.
[21:59:51] <fenn> ethyl acetate is what's in nail polish remover
[21:59:58] <CaptHindsight> home depot is almost down to just denatured alcohol, and odorless mineral spirits
[22:00:24] <Valen> nail polish remover is acetone last I checked?
[22:00:38] <furrywolf> fenn: only nail polish remover I've seen (I've never painted my nails, so I haven't seen much) was acetone.
[22:00:43] <CaptHindsight> part of the mix
[22:00:44] <fenn> only a small percentage acetone
[22:00:54] <CaptHindsight> yeah they are pulling it out
[22:01:14] <fenn> the cynical side of me thinks they're just trying to save money
[22:01:15] <anomynous_> acetone also works for washing hands
[22:01:17] <anomynous_> ;D
[22:01:26] <Valen> I got wifey a liter of it to do her nails with because it was $2 rather than $15 for 100ml
[22:01:33] <Valen> seems to work
[22:01:45] <CaptHindsight> it's the push for only low vapor pressure solvents
[22:01:48] <furrywolf> I've never been into body decoration... I'm not justpink. lol
[22:02:11] <fenn> isn't the point of a solvent that it evaporates quickly?
[22:02:13] <CaptHindsight> acetone was given a pass
[22:04:16] <CaptHindsight> the low VOC amendments to the clean air act
[22:04:34] <furrywolf> good thing I'm not far from oregon.
[22:05:46] <furrywolf> next time I'm up there, I also need to pick up a trunk full of brake cleaner... the california low-voc crap is crap.
[22:05:59] <CaptHindsight> fenn: depends on the use, for cleaning it's nice to have a solvent that doesn't evaporate, for paint I want it to dry quickly
[22:06:52] <Contract_Pilot> Back, no luck at the junk store for hookup wire
[22:06:56] <CaptHindsight> I have to check the MSDS for CA brake cleaner now
[22:06:59] <tjtr33> i posted a SHOPTASK 1720XMTC on forum, free, in Chicagoland. no takers, anyone here want it?
[22:07:21] <Contract_Pilot> have to try and support locals befor i order online
[22:07:22] <CaptHindsight> can't imagine what it supposed to be
[22:07:32] <tjtr33> also a 6dof robot w servos & abso encoders
[22:07:48] <furrywolf> tjtr33: I already have one. does free include free shipping? :P
[22:07:56] <tjtr33> nope
[22:08:07] <tjtr33> yours is older i think
[22:08:33] <tjtr33> this one is stepper ready
[22:09:08] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: it's completely worthless...
[22:10:20] <tjtr33> anyone interested follow the email addy in the forum.
[22:11:18] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33 is leaving :(
[22:11:28] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: I found a trick the other day... buy "electric motor cleaner FOR USE ON ENERGIZED EQUIPMENT ONLY". turns out there's some exemption if it's only for use on energized equipment, so they can use all those nice non-conductive non-flammable chlorinated solvents...
[22:11:53] <CaptHindsight> heh, is it under $10 a can?
[22:11:59] <furrywolf> nope
[22:11:59] <Contract_Pilot> Unually the junk store has 19" rack mount cases nope my luck all out.
[22:12:01] <furrywolf> lol
[22:12:13] * furrywolf has no idea what forum tjtr33 posted on
[22:12:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/54-user-exchange/29730-chicago-puma-6dof-robot-w-servoa-absoencodersfree
[22:13:02] <CaptHindsight> "took encoders to Stewarts workshop, no one could figger it out.
[22:13:03] <CaptHindsight> BUT it was suggested ot just replace these with simpler encoder"
[22:13:24] <MacGalempsy> good evening
[22:13:38] <fenn> brake cleaner is methanol
[22:14:47] <furrywolf> if transport from chicago wasn't so impractical, I'd definitely get that.
[22:15:24] <fenn> tjtr33 is tom powderly i think
[22:17:28] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: you can keep it at my place :)
[22:18:20] <furrywolf> why don't you go get it, then? lol
[22:18:25] <ssi> hi
[22:19:24] <CaptHindsight> I've already been blessed by his house cleaning sale
[22:19:51] <furrywolf> someone just drove an RV into one of my trees... I know who, and I'm not going to go help them. one of the useless drunks down the road. they're fine, the RV is fine, the tree is fine... they can walk home and get help.
[22:20:16] <CaptHindsight> never a dull moment
[22:46:25] <PetefromTn_> well....it worked!
[22:48:32] <furrywolf> do we want to know what it is?
[22:49:10] <PetefromTn_> I dunno do ya?
[22:49:16] <MacGalempsy> XXCoder: you around?
[22:49:24] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/a/IIsgB
[22:49:39] <CaptHindsight> turning on the mill?
[22:49:39] <PetefromTn_> This is my FIRST attempt at using my VMC as a CNC lathe...
[22:49:43] <PetefromTn_> yup
[22:49:55] <PetefromTn_> it was a MAJOR Pain in the azz
[22:50:19] <PetefromTn_> I tried to hand code it but it is so foreign to me to work that way I just finished it manually LOL
[22:50:45] <furrywolf> needs threads somewhere. :P
[22:51:16] <PetefromTn_> but basically that is a heat sink for a 50mm V band flange ring for the turbo wastegates we are tig welding at work
[22:51:29] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: are you going to add live tooling now? :)
[22:51:31] <PetefromTn_> you can see the factory flange on the end there
[22:51:35] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bsmill01.jpg my mill came with a 3-jaw chuck on the spindle, care of the previous owner needing a lathe too. :)
[22:51:40] <PetefromTn_> Hell I would LOVE to LOL
[22:52:02] <PetefromTn_> it would sure have been easier if I had a 3 jaw chuck in there
[22:52:16] <PetefromTn_> I had to machine away the boss that I held it with using the mill vertically
[22:52:32] <PetefromTn_> then I held that stub in the ER32 collet and turned the shape
[22:52:52] <PetefromTn_> I will say one thing for my machine tho
[22:53:02] <PetefromTn_> even down around 300 RPM it has some BALLS
[22:53:02] <CaptHindsight> make a turret mill
[22:53:37] <PetefromTn_> Honestly if I could figure out how to make my CAM output code for the vertical lathe setup it actually worked quite well
[22:56:24] <furrywolf> I like the mechanical gearbox on my mill... lowest is 50rpm. it'll snap anything without slowing down.
[22:56:46] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[22:56:47] <PetefromTn_> well hopefully this little baby will allow me to Tig weld the 50MM flanges on without warping the piss out of them LOL
[22:57:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah I like a good gear head but it can be SCARY too LOL
[22:57:07] <furrywolf> I'm still looking for a tig welder... haven't found one yet.
[22:57:33] <PetefromTn_> I ran a rather large manual lathe for a good while at my last shop
[22:57:45] <PetefromTn_> it was a big gear head machine with like 15HP spindle
[22:57:57] <PetefromTn_> in lower gears that thing was UNSTOPPABLE
[22:58:11] <furrywolf> mine does 50-1800... it's scary at both ends. at the low end it's scary because you know it won't even flinch at ruining things... and at the high end when you go to spin it up, all the lights dim and everything buzzes as it does the machinery-spinning-up noise for 5+ seconds...
[22:58:13] <PetefromTn_> I once was drilling a large diameter hole in some stainless barstock
[22:58:35] <PetefromTn_> using like a 1.5 inch drill bit
[22:58:54] <PetefromTn_> going really slow and adding prodigous amounts of coolant
[22:59:05] <PetefromTn_> I kept retracting and clearing chips
[22:59:22] <PetefromTn_> then one of the other guys walks up and asks me a question
[22:59:29] <PetefromTn_> while I am advancing the cutter
[22:59:38] <PetefromTn_> I hear this little click noise
[22:59:53] <PetefromTn_> and notice that the drill is not spinning anymore LOL
[23:00:02] <PetefromTn_> snapped it like a toothpick
[23:00:23] <PetefromTn_> I had a HUGE amount of respect for the power of that machine after that
[23:00:58] <ssi> PetefromTn_: :D
[23:00:58] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/YkWKXbb.webm whaddayah call this tool?
[23:01:11] <Contract_Pilot> I have an old scsi cable 5 stands of 24awg I think once i get my case will mock it up for mo efficent wiring.
[23:01:13] <PetefromTn_> Hey SSI
[23:01:13] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm designing some parts for a 737 :P
[23:01:22] <Contract_Pilot> sup SSI
[23:01:24] <PetefromTn_> your're crazy man...
[23:01:28] <ssi> it's similar to the stuff you're doing
[23:01:31] <ssi> weldments
[23:01:46] <ssi> gonna be flanges made, and these compression band fittings, and then weldments made up with them
[23:01:52] <ssi> it's parts for aux fuel tanks for a 737
[23:02:06] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/1.jpg
[23:02:12] <PetefromTn_> damn
[23:02:13] <Contract_Pilot> My birdy!
[23:02:19] <ssi> nice
[23:02:20] <PetefromTn_> I hope you are getting paid WELL
[23:02:28] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: that's what mine is like at 50rpm... you have a motor a foot around and 1.5 feet long, geared down to less than one rotation per second... something goes wrong, and the lights don't even flicker.
[23:02:29] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm getting paid moderately
[23:02:35] <ssi> but my name's not going on it so there's no liability :)
[23:02:48] <PetefromTn_> that is miraculous
[23:03:01] <ssi> the engineering's already done by someone else, I'm just doing the solidworks cad work, and getting some models 3d printed for fitment
[23:03:19] <ssi> I've got hand-drawn prints from engineering
[23:03:19] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[23:03:55] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQr1TzzUcAAX2PT.jpg:large
[23:04:01] <ssi> two of my four :P
[23:04:01] <PetefromTn_> I must say that after working with my CNC mill vertically as a lathe I cannot freaking wait to be able to use my CNC lathe!!
[23:04:16] <PetefromTn_> CNC lathe
[23:04:47] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight That's creepy man ;)
[23:04:48] <furrywolf> bbl
[23:04:52] <Contract_Pilot> four?
[23:04:52] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
[23:04:58] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: yeah :P
[23:05:18] <ssi> https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12043024_10100786356532712_3563634788597680477_n.jpg?oh=12d8db3b413687f389334980ef9bbb88&oe=56D109D0
[23:05:18] <Contract_Pilot> you an A&P-IA
[23:05:22] <ssi> the unfinished pitts is mine
[23:05:29] <ssi> no, not yet
[23:05:36] <ssi> I'm planning on taking my A&P tests next month
[23:05:43] <ssi> already have the FSDO signoff
[23:06:16] <ssi> https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/247629_10100172352152412_325887569_n.jpg?oh=47fee3db287fef88110fdb785d940ce8&oe=56D002B3
[23:06:19] <ssi> there's number four
[23:06:40] <ssi> and I might soon have a half interest in this one
[23:06:41] <ssi> https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11140365_10100667604876982_7683415325540632820_n.jpg?oh=c286079315a867194f178904ca0ec20b&oe=5685AB2E
[23:07:30] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9gWEdzIEAAs-BB.jpg:large
[23:08:31] <Contract_Pilot> Cool
[23:09:09] <Contract_Pilot> I am violating the doc's rules having a 6 pack need it.
[23:09:28] <Contract_Pilot> every day the post man comes my projects keep growing.
[23:10:26] <Contract_Pilot> what order of the 3 that arrived was correct? http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Motors-Drivers-Walmart-1024x576.jpg
[23:11:01] <ssi> I'm looking forward to trying these new servo drives
[23:11:23] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I may have a way to make some progress on my vmc
[23:11:29] <Contract_Pilot> I may switch plans and go Servo's on my G0704
[23:12:12] <Contract_Pilot> But with the mistake i have a 425oz nema 23 less work
[23:13:28] <PetefromTn_> ssi oh yeah...
[23:13:29] <Contract_Pilot> was going to use a 495oz nema 34 but they sent me a 368oz nema24
[23:14:20] <Contract_Pilot> 78oz Nema23 ended up a 425oz nema 23 for 8.00
[23:14:25] <Contract_Pilot> with driver
[23:14:45] <PetefromTn_> ssi what servo drives?
[23:16:50] <Wolf_> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl/
[23:16:53] <ssi> yeah that one
[23:17:05] <ssi> ^5 Wolf_
[23:17:18] <PetefromTn_> what is it?
[23:18:08] <ssi> it's a microcontroller servo drive
[23:18:24] <PetefromTn_> 320v and 1kw not bad..
[23:18:33] <ssi> but what's notable about it is it's set up to talk to linuxcnc over smartserial (or at least it will be when I get into helping write some of the software)
[23:18:42] <PetefromTn_> I think I have settled on the servos and drives for my lathe finally
[23:18:58] <ssi> and it doesn't need hall feedback, it does phase angle detection, and then uses encoder feedback for commutation
[23:19:08] <ssi> so that'll work with my fanuc drives
[23:19:19] <PetefromTn_> sweet so it will solve your problems I gues then hopefully
[23:19:22] <ssi> I hope so
[23:19:30] <ssi> plus it's an open source drive, so I can build as many as I want :P
[23:19:42] <PetefromTn_> how much?
[23:19:44] <ssi> should be able to get them down around sixty bucks a piece in materials
[23:19:47] <Wolf_> and mod it to work better
[23:19:52] <PetefromTn_> shit
[23:19:52] <MacGalempsy> PetefromTn_: that spun piece looks good.
[23:19:55] <PetefromTn_> thats cheap
[23:19:58] <ssi> yeah
[23:20:00] <PetefromTn_> Thanks Mac
[23:20:17] <PetefromTn_> Its my first verical lathe in the mill attempt ;)
[23:20:23] <ssi> and what I really want to see is a setup with a 7i74 8x smartserial board,
[23:20:24] <MacGalempsy> If you need help manually programming the gcode, I may be able to help.
[23:20:34] <Wolf_> great seeing that I can’t find a damn driver less then $130 for my motors I have here
[23:20:35] <ssi> and N of these drives, with everything going over smartserial
[23:20:38] <PetefromTn_> 7i74?
[23:20:50] <ssi> 7i74 is 8x smartserial
[23:21:03] <PetefromTn_> 8x?
[23:21:17] <ssi> the drive has encoder counters on it because it uses the encoder for velocity feedback and commutation angle
[23:21:18] <MacGalempsy> just think of all the 7i84 you could run on that
[23:21:23] <ssi> jesus pete, it's eight smartserial ports
[23:21:33] <ssi> how much more clear can I make it :)
[23:21:35] <PetefromTn_> SORRY
[23:21:59] <MacGalempsy> what on earth does anyone need that many i/o?
[23:22:03] <PetefromTn_> you know most of this shit is beyond me man....
[23:22:07] <MacGalempsy> you making a martian lander?
[23:22:40] <PetefromTn_> I think I am going with the DMM servo motors and drives for the CNC lathe
[23:22:53] <PetefromTn_> about $565 an axis
[23:22:56] <PetefromTn_> 750 watt
[23:23:06] <PetefromTn_> with cables and everything
[23:23:41] <PetefromTn_> a lot like the Teco's I used on the Cinci that have been working so well for me
[23:23:47] <PetefromTn_> only smaller
[23:24:44] <ssi> MacGalempsy: what?
[23:24:51] <PetefromTn_> how long will it take you to build one?
[23:24:52] <ssi> PetefromTn_: that's not bad
[23:24:59] <ssi> I dunno, shouldn't take too long
[23:25:10] <ssi> the guy's mailing me boards tomorrow
[23:25:14] <PetefromTn_> no I think it is a fair price for an axis
[23:25:16] <ssi> I have ten coming, three of them go to Wolf_
[23:25:21] <MacGalempsy> ssi: I figured 8 smart serials means running 8 daughter cards
[23:25:38] <ssi> MacGalempsy: yeah but that doesn't necessarily mean 8 48io breakouts
[23:25:39] <PetefromTn_> Oh your buddy wolf gets em but not your old pal pete Huh ;)
[23:25:53] <ssi> these servo drives speak smartserial, so each one will use a port
[23:25:57] <MacGalempsy> oh, what is is there?
[23:26:02] <MacGalempsy> ok
[23:26:08] <ssi> PetefromTn_: you want to build one? you're welcome to a board
[23:26:13] <MacGalempsy> that sounds pretty handy
[23:26:29] <PetefromTn_> I am not much for building electronics man unfortunately
[23:26:31] <Wolf_> I just opened up the bom in eagle, cause the crap is so f’ked up altium was pissing me off
[23:26:32] <ssi> MacGalempsy: I'm aiming to have the servo drive count the encoder (cause it needs to anyway), and then just report it back over sserial
[23:26:46] <ssi> so I don't need to buffer and split, and to keep the wiring SUPER tidy
[23:26:51] <PetefromTn_> if I could find a pair of suitably matched motors in 750 watt I could run with them I would be interested
[23:26:56] <MacGalempsy> yeah, that should help on high encoder counts, right?
[23:26:59] <ssi> cause then all motor cables go directly to the drive, and then just one ethernet cable back to the 7i74
[23:27:13] <ssi> MacGalempsy: not so much worried about the counts as just the wiring hassle
[23:27:14] <MacGalempsy> can you index with 50000 counts that way?
[23:27:23] <ssi> what, counting it in hardware?
[23:27:32] <ssi> you can count damn near anything doing it on fpga
[23:27:36] <PetefromTn_> probably wouldn't work with my 5i25/7i77 anyways
[23:27:51] <MacGalempsy> well, I was told that my 50000/rotation was too much to read the index pulse
[23:28:04] <ssi> MacGalempsy: did pcw tell you that?
[23:28:13] <MacGalempsy> pretty much
[23:28:21] <MacGalempsy> if I recall correctly
[23:28:27] <ssi> I don't see why high count would affect the index pulse
[23:28:32] <ssi> index is still once per rev
[23:28:44] <MacGalempsy> if it catches it
[23:29:02] <Wolf_> thats what I was just thinking, I think my encoders have a separate index wire
[23:29:07] <ssi> indeed
[23:29:30] <MacGalempsy> mine has a seperate index wire
[23:29:53] <MacGalempsy> but watching them through halscope, I wasnt able to see the index pulse
[23:30:12] <ssi> you were probably just zoomed too far in
[23:30:32] <ssi> the A/B lines will just look like a solid wall if you're zoomed out far enough to see the Z
[23:30:41] <MacGalempsy> i dont think so because when I did the same setup with the spindle index, it worked fine
[23:30:45] <PetefromTn_> would you have to solder all of those components on there?
[23:31:10] <Wolf_> solder paste and reflow ftw
[23:31:29] <PetefromTn_> don't know how to do that unfortunately
[23:31:36] <PetefromTn_> probably don't own the equipment
[23:32:32] <Wolf_> druggy needle, solder paste, hot plate/reflow oven/hotair rework station/$20 scrapbooking embossing gun
[23:32:38] <Wolf_> tweezers
[23:36:03] <ssi> PetefromTn_: don't worry, if these work out I'm sure you'll end up with some
[23:36:19] <PetefromTn_> hehe how you figure LOL
[23:36:44] <ssi> heh
[23:36:54] <PetefromTn_> I mean I can trade out some shit LOL but as far as reflowing my own flavor it aint gonna happen
[23:37:03] <Wolf_> gotta sell the first run ones to someone after we revise the boards
[23:37:12] <Wolf_> :P
[23:37:43] <PetefromTn_> Oh so I am your guinea pig :D
[23:38:39] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitsubishi-AC-Servo-Motor-HF-KE73KW1-S100-750-WATT-/381352552064?hash=item58ca622680 a pair of these bad boys and two of your home brew drives and I'd be in bidness
[23:38:57] <PetefromTn_> for less than it would cost me for ONE axis from DMM
[23:39:02] <PetefromTn_> HHHhmmmmmmmmmmm
[23:39:17] <PetefromTn_> will they work with the 7i77 tho?
[23:39:53] <PetefromTn_> MacGalempsy so have you done a bunch of vertical lathe in the mill programming?
[23:40:41] <MacGalempsy> no. but basic gcode should be easy to program
[23:40:58] <MacGalempsy> im not saying threads, but it looks pretty basic
[23:41:05] <PetefromTn_> I really need to get some of those long thin lathe inserts
[23:41:21] <PetefromTn_> well yeah I kinda hand coded most of it myself
[23:41:31] <PetefromTn_> would have been nice to be able to use CAM for it
[23:42:39] <PetefromTn_> can you just switch to the G18 and program it like a lathe in linuxCNC?
[23:42:47] <MacGalempsy> overall, it sounds dangerous
[23:42:52] <PetefromTn_> or G19 or whatever
[23:42:59] <PetefromTn_> what does?
[23:43:05] <MacGalempsy> using the mill as a lathe
[23:43:10] <PetefromTn_> naah
[23:43:14] <PetefromTn_> its not too bad really
[23:43:27] <PetefromTn_> you are not going to do long workpieces
[23:43:57] <PetefromTn_> and other than having to think in a different way about which way things move its pretty easy
[23:45:14] <MacGalempsy> any fear about the spindle getting bent?
[23:46:07] <PetefromTn_> bent?
[23:46:38] <PetefromTn_> what time is it in Hawaii right now?
[23:47:14] <MacGalempsy> it seems the forces are different on a lathe spindle
[23:47:38] <PetefromTn_> well you are probably not going to go hog wild with this setup
[23:47:52] <PetefromTn_> but honestly I was taking .04 passes without too much drama
[23:49:41] <MacGalempsy> anyone want to guess what the mold to make Hot Sauce caps cost?
[23:49:58] <PetefromTn_> molds can be very expensive
[23:50:05] <MacGalempsy> 32 caps, with inside threads, 5 second injection cycle
[23:50:16] <MacGalempsy> $100k
[23:50:20] <PetefromTn_> 25k?
[23:50:26] <PetefromTn_> oh okay
[23:50:29] <PetefromTn_> MORE
[23:50:31] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[23:50:36] <PetefromTn_> did you machine it?
[23:52:40] <MacGalempsy> no I wish
[23:52:51] <MacGalempsy> it was the instructor of our cnc class
[23:53:02] <MacGalempsy> one of the jobs he worked on, said it took a while
[23:53:30] <PetefromTn_> The guy I bought my mill from make some intricate molds. He told me about how much a simple one can cost I almost fell on the floor LOL
[23:53:49] <MacGalempsy> yeah! and I want to do the Land Cruiser knobs
[23:53:56] <PetefromTn_> there is a lot to know about it tho
[23:54:10] <MacGalempsy> he said a mold for a ford grill emblem was $5k
[23:54:11] <bobo> hay Pete ,thanks for taking the # of serial port hit for me . I was wondering what that was too
[23:54:15] <PetefromTn_> venting, sprue channels etc.
[23:54:43] <PetefromTn_> Oh no worries man I know I am an tech illiterate LOL
[23:55:06] <McBride36> how many people in here use homemade cnc machines?
[23:55:22] <McBride36> and if so, what control board do they/you use
[23:55:30] <PetefromTn_> half the time I am on here listening to these guys talk I bounce between scratching my head and doing google searches for terminology LOL
[23:55:42] <PetefromTn_> define homemade...
[23:55:52] <MacGalempsy> hehe. anyone interested in doing a diy edm?
[23:55:55] <McBride36> PetefromTn_, really the second bit is more important
[23:56:06] <McBride36> just wanna know options of control boards
[23:56:29] <PetefromTn_> in my not so humble view there is only one option....MESANET! LOL
[23:56:48] <bobo> Pete well don't back up up real fast cause i'am in the same line
[23:57:07] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[23:57:08] <MacGalempsy> if PNCCONF worked perfect, it would awesome for us less tech junkies
[23:57:24] <Wolf_> unless its stupid simple with steppers....
[23:57:50] <PetefromTn_> If I can get my CNC lathe going and then maybe build a decent CNC Plasma table I should be good for the duration LOL
[23:58:25] <Wolf_> wonder if I could run the lawnmower on Lcnc
[23:58:44] <MacGalempsy> I want to see the gcode for that
[23:58:52] <MacGalempsy> m06 changes the blade?
[23:58:57] <PetefromTn_> I think those turned parts look pretty good for 3" hot rolled LOL
[23:59:16] <bobo> MacGalempsy sinker =no , wire = yes but not right now
[23:59:18] <Wolf_> if my yard was dead flat the gcode would be simple
[23:59:19] <PetefromTn_> there are quite a few RClawnmower projects on the net
[23:59:39] <MacGalempsy> bobo have you seen Ben Flemings book and circuit board?
[23:59:39] <PetefromTn_> most use an salvaged electric wheelchair
[23:59:47] <bobo> yes
[23:59:57] <MacGalempsy> thats what I got to work with