#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-10-04

[00:17:30] <XXCoderMill> man
[00:17:35] <XXCoderMill> cant find any info
[00:17:42] <Jymmm> 0378 0278 03BC
[00:18:50] <XXCoderMill> Jymmm: my pc has no built in parallel port
[00:19:06] <Jymmm> did yu add a pci paraport card?
[00:19:10] <XXCoderMill> so far I think port are 0xa400 or 0xac00
[00:19:24] <XXCoderMill> but editing hal does not have any effect
[00:19:46] <XXCoderMill> add as in how? it does show up in linux devices list
[00:20:52] <Jymmm> what list? in terminal?
[00:20:55] <Jymmm> lspci -w
[00:20:59] <Jymmm> lspci -v
[00:22:55] <XXCoderMill> yeah
[00:23:13] <Jymmm> Ok, so what base address did it say?
[00:23:28] <XXCoderMill> its dual port so there is 2 addresses
[00:23:33] <Jymmm> Ok, so what base address did it say?
[00:23:50] <XXCoderMill> a000 a400 a800 ac00
[00:24:04] <XXCoderMill> (yeah dunno why 2 per port)
[00:28:17] <XXCoderMill> though iports seem to have bit different result http://pastebin.com/tYxPcyZG
[00:28:56] <XXCoderMill> it does show onboard which is odd because pc dont have one.
[00:37:57] <Jymmm> The PC doens't need to have a physical connector (DB25), it just needs to have a chipset that has those and other devices. Typically a usb-PCI/port bridge including PS/2, usb , serial, parallel, etc
[00:38:13] <XXCoderMill> hmm yeah probably has pins somewhere
[00:38:37] <XXCoderMill> but I already set card and want to use it. tried bunch stuff but dont work.
[00:41:58] <XXCoderMill> oh yeah Jymmm heres lspci -v http://pastebin.com/1MkfVKha
[00:51:26] <XXCoderMill> see any problem?
[00:55:33] <zeeshan|2> ZZzZzz
[00:57:09] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf snapon does make their own tools.
[00:57:13] <zeeshan|2> with the exception of blue point.
[01:02:53] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: hey
[01:03:00] <XXCoder> been trying to solve problem
[01:03:02] <zeeshan|2> hi
[01:03:05] <zeeshan|2> what prob
[01:03:34] <XXCoder> my pc do have onboard parallel port but it does not work (no ribbon long enough to reach it and still be able to connect to slots in back)
[01:03:47] <XXCoder> but I has additional card pci for parallel ports
[01:03:56] <XXCoder> however I dont know how to configure it to work.
[01:04:03] <zeeshan|2> did you ins tall the drivers?
[01:04:17] <zeeshan|2> most pci type parallel port cards need a driver
[01:04:30] <zeeshan|2> after that you will see it pop up on lspci -vvv
[01:04:31] <XXCoder> using linuxcnc but how do I do that
[01:04:37] <XXCoder> it already does.
[01:04:39] <zeeshan|2> youre gonna have to find the drivers
[01:04:42] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:04:44] <zeeshan|2> but when it pops up
[01:04:52] <zeeshan|2> lemme check your output
[01:05:00] <zeeshan|2> 01:06.0 Parallel controller: NetMos Technology PCI 9865 Multi-I/O Controller (prog-if 03 [IEEE1284]) Subsystem: Device a000:2000 Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 16 I/O ports at ac00 [size=8] I/O ports at a800 [size=8] Memory at fdeff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Memory at fdefe000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
[01:06:38] <zeeshan|2> looks like its working right
[01:06:55] <XXCoder> yeah but im not sure how to modify HAL file
[01:07:18] <XXCoder> I tried few different methods. none worked. stepconf dont seem to allow me to select ports unless 2, and still doesnt work
[01:08:15] <zeeshan|2> hal is easy to do
[01:08:20] <zeeshan|2> just make sure you got these 2 lines:
[01:08:55] <zeeshan|2> loadrt probe_parport loadrt hal_parport cfg="0xa400 out 0xa400 in "
[01:09:26] <XXCoder> okay gonna get to pc on again when I finish reading this article. a min or so
[01:10:57] <XXCoder> ok going now a sec
[01:14:24] <XXCoder_mill> okay
[01:14:29] <XXCoder_mill> mind repeat that line lol
[01:15:23] <zeeshan|2> loadrt probe_parport
[01:15:27] <zeeshan|2> loadrt hal_parport cfg="0xa400 out 0xa400 in "
[01:15:31] <zeeshan|2> i need to go to bed :()
[01:16:00] <XXCoder_mill> thanks. min wait just a minute?
[01:16:03] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:16:21] <XXCoder_mill> 0xa400
[01:16:26] <XXCoder_mill> er copy fail
[01:16:45] * Jymmm mumbles PEBKAC
[01:16:51] <XXCoder_mill> lol
[01:18:34] <XXCoder_mill> sigh glad I made a backup now recovering it lol
[01:19:13] <XXCoder_mill> error :(
[01:19:46] <XXCoder_mill> it says cant find probe
[01:19:53] <XXCoder_mill> _parport
[01:21:08] <XXCoder_mill> /hal.parport.ko resource temp busy?
[01:21:46] <XXCoder_mill> it says parport2 claim failed in dmesg
[01:22:01] <anomynous> i found a free energy magnet motor on youtube. How does it work?
[01:22:13] <XXCoder_mill> by dratining magnet
[01:22:22] <anomynous> dratining?
[01:22:26] <XXCoder_mill> draining
[01:22:32] <anomynous> how do you drain them?
[01:22:33] <XXCoder_mill> that or its all bullcrap
[01:22:45] <XXCoder_mill> in either case there is no free lunch
[01:22:57] <anomynous> but it was spinning. Maybe he is putting some kind of gasoline inside the magnets
[01:23:28] <XXCoder_mill> nah
[01:23:35] <XXCoder_mill> magnets are being slowly demagnetized
[01:23:40] <XXCoder_mill> evenually it will be dead
[01:23:57] <XXCoder_mill> or theres some other trickery
[01:23:58] <anomynous> does it take more than a year?
[01:24:40] <anomynous> whats that impossible waterfall called?
[01:24:46] <XXCoder_mill> shouldnt be that long but ultimately not free energy as you will get far less energy out of it than energy used to make em magnets
[01:24:54] <anomynous> i once saw a really good video about it...
[01:25:11] <XXCoder_mill> nonelcuidian waterfall lol loved that artist artwork
[01:25:23] <XXCoder_mill> forgot exact art title name
[01:25:31] <zeeshan|2> modprobe parport?
[01:25:35] <zeeshan|2> in terminal?
[01:26:17] <anomynous> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v2xnl6LwJE
[01:26:56] <XXCoder_mill> zeeshan|2: no result
[01:27:48] <zeeshan|2> hm
[01:27:50] <zeeshan|2> too tired to think
[01:27:55] <zeeshan|2> will try tomorrow if you havent figured it :P
[01:28:05] <anomynous> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwm-yGCjOjU watch this only after the first vid
[01:28:05] <XXCoder_mill> np have good rest
[01:28:28] <XXCoder_mill> thanks again zeeshan|2
[01:28:34] <zeeshan|2> np, i was useless :P
[01:32:30] <anomynous> XXCoder_mill, what is knowing non-euclidean geometry good for?
[01:32:41] <XXCoder_mill> nothing really
[01:32:45] <anomynous> duh
[01:32:55] <anomynous> nothing?
[01:33:11] <anomynous> id want to know geometry on ball surface
[01:34:06] <anomynous> XXCoder_mill, what do i need to read to learn that? ;D
[01:34:33] <XXCoder_mill> learn to read, read to learn.
[01:34:50] <anomynous> thats... thats... not an answer.
[01:35:29] <anomynous> like some text-book like thing without too much all kinds of hard symbols unexplained ;D
[01:37:56] <anomynous> if i could do geometry on hyperbolic surface i could cnc carve straight lines to pringles ;D thats useful
[01:38:29] <Jymmm> Not very tasty though
[01:39:12] <anomynous> how to learn math if you dont have time or money to take open university courses?
[01:39:12] <XXCoder_mill> lol
[01:39:18] <Jymmm> anomynous: You have netflix?
[01:39:22] <anomynous> nope
[01:39:25] <XXCoder_mill> there is free online "classes"
[01:39:38] <anomynous> most of the tv is just... garbage
[01:39:40] <XXCoder_mill> look for free college class online
[01:39:40] <anomynous> i dont have one
[01:39:46] <Jymmm> anomynous: amazon?
[01:39:47] <anomynous> mm
[01:39:50] <XXCoder_mill> and avoid scummy ones
[01:39:55] <anomynous> amazon? book store?
[01:40:00] <Jymmm> prime
[01:40:02] <anomynous> XXCoder_mill, mm
[01:40:04] <anomynous> nope
[01:40:09] <anomynous> i dont watch tv if thats what youre asking
[01:40:26] <Jymmm> anomynous: Well get a free trial of netflix for 30days and watch "The Code"
[01:40:37] <anomynous> a movie?
[01:40:42] <Jymmm> series
[01:40:46] <Jymmm> mini series
[01:40:48] <anomynous> educational?
[01:40:52] <Jymmm> very
[01:40:58] <XXCoder_mill> jeez
[01:41:11] <XXCoder_mill> linuxcnc errors says to include all info in it
[01:41:18] <XXCoder_mill> but I cant copy off it.
[01:42:56] <XXCoder_mill> finally. for some reason it must select all to be copied. so I pasted it into notepad to copy one line
[01:42:57] <anomynous> Jymmm, id want to actually use some aspects of maths. Not just take a peek at a little on everything
[01:42:58] <XXCoder_mill> Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc/hal_parport.ko: Resource temporarily unavailable
[01:44:09] <Jymmm> anomynous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RAtFSEkFho
[01:46:16] <Jymmm> anomynous: Ok, found it for you, 6 episodes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIsWLnipsIg
[01:46:25] <XXCoder_mill> weird. parport_pc 21896 4 parport 35208 3 lp,ppdev,parport_pc
[01:46:34] <XXCoder_mill> lsmod shows it being used
[01:46:49] <XXCoder_mill> maybe linuxcnc didnt close it when it error'd out?
[01:46:57] <anomynous> jymm have you studied math?
[01:47:22] <Jymmm> anomynous: I have a hobby of cryptography
[01:47:35] <anomynous> ah. a man in his primes.
[01:47:43] <anomynous> ;D
[01:48:05] <Jymmm> factorially speaking that is
[01:49:16] <Jymmm> anomynous: Well, what YOU speak of is what I call "hard numbers", and that's not really what I'm into. But if you watch that series (all episodes), you might get where I'm at
[01:50:15] <anomynous> okay
[01:50:25] <anomynous> i just wanted to do geometry on a ball surface ;D
[01:50:54] <Jymmm> Yes, I understand. That's why I mentioned that series
[01:51:00] <anomynous> okay
[01:51:04] <anomynous> special thanks ;)
[01:53:12] <Jymmm> anomynous: Ah, ok, well you'll like that series, but I forgot it was THIS is what I was looking for (they are related) http://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_wertheim_crochets_the_coral_reef?language=en
[01:53:50] <Jymmm> anomynous: ignore the speaker (she's a douche), but what they accomplished
[01:54:26] <Jymmm> or discovered, or however you want to phrase it.
[01:54:58] <Jymmm> anomynous: Basically hyperbolic geometry.
[01:59:47] <XXCoder_mill> its ALLIVE
[01:59:54] <XXCoder_mill> finally.
[02:00:11] <XXCoder_mill> accel was so fast initally that table rocked lol (old dinner table)
[02:00:46] <XXCoder_mill> had to change few signals to invert apparently
[02:07:31] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SajkXIZsU-g
[02:07:37] <ganzuul> =<
[02:07:49] <ganzuul> !xC
[02:08:56] <Deejay> moin
[02:09:09] <ganzuul> o/
[02:09:16] <Deejay> \o/
[02:10:41] <Jymmm> XXCoder_mill: Pay anomynous' consulting fees
[02:11:16] <XXCoder_mill> lol
[02:18:48] <XXCoder> hmm
[02:19:01] <XXCoder> 1605 ball screw mean it moves 16 mm per rotation?
[02:19:19] <archivist> I doubt it
[02:19:39] <archivist> measure, read the spec
[02:19:40] <XXCoder> yeah doubt it too
[02:19:58] <XXCoder> all it says is 1605 (or 1204)
[02:21:20] <archivist> tell it to move 20mm measure how far it moved, or use a ruler/vernier and measure the ballscrew
[02:21:56] <XXCoder> nice
[02:21:57] <XXCoder> http://www.aquickcnc.com/wiki/Stepper_Motor_Calculations
[02:22:01] <XXCoder> brb
[02:22:37] <XXCoder_mill> okay calculating now lol
[02:27:41] <XXCoder_mill> wha??
[02:27:52] <XXCoder_mill> linuxcnc dont come with calc?
[02:28:19] <archivist> the OS does have a calculator
[02:31:30] <Jymmm> expr 1 + 1
[02:32:11] <XXCoder_mill> I see few methods to abuse like sheet
[02:32:16] <XXCoder_mill> but no basic calc
[02:32:21] <Jymmm> from bash shell that is =)
[02:33:45] <XXCoder_mill> i know :)
[02:45:27] <archivist> applications->accessories->calculator
[02:52:29] <XXCoder_mill> nope
[02:52:35] <XXCoder_mill> moving to pc a sec
[02:59:40] <XXCoder> heyyyy
[02:59:51] <XXCoder> archivist: glad to finally see it functioning!
[03:00:04] <XXCoder> just need to understand few stuff as I got few stuff wrong
[03:00:13] <XXCoder> home machine basically is set g53 correct?
[03:02:10] <archivist> I use the axis buttons to home (no switches on mine)
[03:02:54] <XXCoder> I has switches but not installed yet
[03:02:58] <XXCoder> unsure how to do that yet
[03:03:55] <archivist> just move axes to home (jog) and click the home axis
[03:04:08] <XXCoder> so that sets machine zeros eh
[03:52:31] <_abc_> Hello. Can someone please enlighten me, how axis can be made to have one, two or three hming buttons? The sim setup axis is shipped with has one button, normal setups made by hand or by stepconf have 3 for 3 axes. I can't find the settings which do this?
[03:54:12] <archivist> it will be one button per axis defined in the ini
[04:01:52] <archivist> also will depend on types of homing defined for those axes probably
[05:21:49] <XXCoder> http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_202_if-we-used-animals-like-the-flinstones/
[05:21:56] <XXCoder> funny. had to eyeroll on some entries
[05:28:27] <MacGalempsy> NICE
[05:33:19] <_abc_> archivist: The sim has 1 button and 3 axes, with no homing switches. The setup I tested also has 3 axes, no homing switches yes, and 3 buttons... I need to read that jungle to try to guess which setting does it. Any hints?
[05:33:45] <MacGalempsy> archivist: how is the CMM working?
[05:47:50] <XXCoder> suck it. http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/8/0/5/269805.jpg?v=1
[05:49:51] <XXCoder> honestly this is worse of lot. haven't they checked how it looks before mass production? http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/7/9/1/269791.jpg?v=1
[05:50:24] <XXCoder> the fact that everyones looking at it just drives it home.
[05:50:31] <MacGalempsy> you need this for your machine http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-FARA-T02-Robocon-SRCP-OTP1B-Robot-Machine-Tool-Controller-Teach-Pendant-/351443549390?hash=item51d3aafcce
[05:50:42] <MacGalempsy> good luck programming
[05:50:47] <XXCoder> no wheel no buy
[05:53:33] <XXCoder> I will evenually buy that pendant thats nice and small
[05:53:41] <XXCoder> AND wireless. nice bonus.
[05:54:47] <fenn> why is small important?
[05:55:02] <XXCoder> dont need a pendant bigger than my machine ;)
[05:55:14] <MacGalempsy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/IKO-LWL-12-4-5cm-Travel-XY-Stage-with-Theta-and-22mm-Z-Actuator-w-Vacuum-Tip-/161739218192?hash=item25a8689d10
[05:55:16] <XXCoder> my machines not that small but I dont like "wall of buttons"
[05:55:31] <fenn> yeah i think tom's pendant has the right amount of buttons
[05:55:38] <XXCoder> I hate fadal 2000s because of that
[05:55:53] <XXCoder> compared to ancient 1980 fadal's considerable simpler interface.
[05:56:23] <XXCoder> too bad its quite worn and some issues with design. like say drains is at back and nothing to remove chips
[06:00:17] <XXCoder> fenn: more modern ones has lots buttons but way better organized
[06:00:26] <XXCoder> I can see whats going on with glance
[06:03:09] <fenn> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/pendant1.jpg
[06:04:05] <fenn> estop should be on side though
[06:04:28] <XXCoder> fenn: nice one
[06:04:45] <XXCoder> easy to quickly change modes by feel
[06:05:06] <XXCoder> one I am considering to buy has wheel but not those mode knobs
[06:05:51] <fenn> mode buttons might be better, shrug
[06:06:15] <XXCoder> I used either way and I like knobs
[06:06:56] <XXCoder> when i'm trying to find edge I don't want to look at pendant over and over
[07:59:50] <aventtini1> hello gys
[07:59:52] <aventtini1> guys
[08:00:11] <aventtini1> i have made the oil pump to work today
[08:00:15] <aventtini1> works perfect
[08:01:39] <XXCoder> aventtini1: nice
[08:08:08] <aventtini1> 1mm in full 1000rpm 300mm feed
[08:08:22] <aventtini1> like on gear spindle
[08:08:23] <aventtini1> :))
[08:09:43] <XXCoder> I got my machine to work properly
[08:09:47] <XXCoder> right scale and all
[08:09:51] <XXCoder> awesome.
[08:10:08] <XXCoder> will try more stuff tomorrow after I figure some more stuff
[08:10:32] <aventtini1> i need a rpm meter
[08:12:51] <_abc_> Say what exactly must be done to make mousepad save files in debian linuxcnc ed. ?
[08:13:11] <_abc_> It does save the file edited but the file on disk is not changed. Something is very weird.
[08:13:22] <XXCoder> I need to install limit switches but still NO idea how to do that.
[08:13:23] <_abc_> Editing the file with another editor works fine, saved and all.
[08:28:24] <_abc_> G92 with no axes is the same as G92.1 right?
[08:34:53] <Tom_itx> _abc_ did you figure out your homing?
[08:37:06] <Tom_itx> you can set homing order in the ini
[08:37:11] <robinsz> XXCoder, limit switches? they are not that useful
[08:37:28] <XXCoder> robinsz: I would like to have easy home.
[08:37:39] <robinsz> homing switches are useful
[08:37:58] <XXCoder> hm
[08:38:02] <XXCoder> any difference?
[08:38:35] <Tom_itx> i use one for both
[08:39:36] <anomynous> how do absolute measuring systems work in cnc machines? The ones that needn't be homed?
[08:39:48] <Tom_itx> but they do need to be homed
[08:40:01] <anomynous> cnc machines? Not all
[08:40:02] <Tom_itx> all the ones i've ever seen did
[08:40:35] <anomynous> there are some with absolute measuring systems kinda like calipers ;D
[08:40:58] <Tom_itx> even calipers need to be zero'd once in a while
[08:41:07] <robinsz> XXCoder, my homing switches are about 10mm from the axis limits
[08:41:23] <robinsz> once it has homed, they are not of much use
[08:41:23] <XXCoder> not bad
[08:41:48] <XXCoder> I have 6 switches ready to use but not sure how to use em yet. z is hardest as its short enough already.
[08:42:09] <robinsz> I just have 3, one for each axis
[08:42:22] <robinsz> EMC looks after the limits after that, never run into them
[08:46:01] <robinsz> homing is essential really
[08:46:18] <XXCoder> yeah and I want repeatable homing'
[08:46:25] <robinsz> limits are just a safety net in case something goes badly wrong
[08:47:01] <robinsz> i prefer to have my homing switches a little way off the physical limits
[08:48:01] <anomynous> mm... an encoder thing with a battery? Iirc i read somewhere about intermediate absolute measure/correction poinst :€ could be something ive made up
[09:23:31] <_abc_> Tom_itx: yes I did.
[09:23:48] <_abc_> Re: homing switches: homing switches are not useful unless one step accurate (rare)
[09:24:09] <_abc_> End switches ARE useful, when used to do rough homing with stepper type machines
[09:25:31] <zeeshan|2> im glad that lube.py is helping someone else
[09:25:32] <zeeshan|2> haha
[09:25:37] <zeeshan|2> i posted it randomly :P
[09:25:46] <_abc_> anomynous: that exists yes. EMC2 does linear interpolation on up to 256 pts per axis, see parameter COMP_FILE = file.extension COMP_FILE_TYPE = 0 or 1
[09:25:49] <_abc_> anomynous: per axis
[09:26:06] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: did you find the parallel port?
[09:26:19] <_abc_> meep meep parallel port lost >;)
[09:26:45] <_abc_> Does emc2/axis work well with pci parallel ports on boards with no parallel on board?
[09:26:52] <zeeshan|2> anomynous: the machines that don't need to be homed
[09:26:55] <zeeshan|2> usually will use scales
[09:27:10] <zeeshan|2> on the scales, there are markings at known absolute positions
[09:27:19] <zeeshan|2> so whenever you move the machine oiver these marks
[09:27:22] <pcw_home> some absolute encoders use batteries/supercaps (Fanuc Yaskawa etc)
[09:27:22] <zeeshan|2> itll remember where it was
[09:27:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, you seeing floating turds in your dreams yet?
[09:27:35] <_abc_> lol
[09:27:39] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: im almost done them man
[09:27:42] <zeeshan|2> can't wait man!!
[09:27:43] <_abc_> Tom_itx: calm down, nothing bad happened
[09:27:49] <zeeshan|2> i also cleaned up my garage yesterday
[09:27:53] <zeeshan|2> i have space for the machine :D
[09:27:57] <zeeshan|2> hoooorayyyyyy
[09:27:59] <Tom_itx> nice
[09:28:01] <pcw_home> Renishaw uses a scale pattern (on their resolute series)
[09:28:23] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: and others
[09:28:25] <_abc_> po' man's scale machine uses cheap digital calipers hacked for digital io
[09:28:26] <zeeshan|2> warning warning warning
[09:28:35] <zeeshan|2> i will be picking youjr brains in the upcoming weeks
[09:28:37] <Wolf_> Tom_itx: found little more on the motor and possible controller option http://www.aliexpress.com/item/220DPW10BL-BLdc-motor-speed-controller/32279140487.html?spm=2114.01020208.0.538.whBY1h
[09:28:40] <zeeshan|2> for my lathe :D
[09:29:00] <_abc_> Also the price of a one axis Renishaw scale will buy you about 3 Chinese 3 axis gantry engravers and one makerbot 3d printer ;)
[09:29:21] <zeeshan|2> lol
[09:29:30] <zeeshan|2> abc those digital caliper scales
[09:29:38] <zeeshan|2> do they have a quick response time?
[09:29:50] <Tom_itx> Wolf_, i though yours was ac
[09:29:56] <pcw_home> no, too slow for feedback
[09:29:59] <_abc_> Can someone please point me at a more verbose description on how exactly does the tool table control the shape of the gui cone/tool effigy ?
[09:30:02] <zeeshan|2> do you know how slow?
[09:30:11] <pcw_home> about 50 Hz
[09:30:11] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: fast enough for most drives
[09:30:18] <Wolf_> Tom_itx: AC in to the controller… its a DC 310v motor
[09:30:21] <_abc_> but too slow for real feedback
[09:30:23] <Wolf_> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/750W-BLDC-MOTOR-80BLF160-3140/32278077930.html?spm=2114.01020208.0.531.BV1duc
[09:30:32] <_abc_> you can use them for zeroing and absolute position finding though
[09:30:51] <zeeshan|2> solunds like a pain in the ass
[09:30:53] <pcw_home> also asychronous (it just spews data)
[09:30:57] <_abc_> No, it is a life saver.
[09:30:57] <zeeshan|2> just for zeroing and absolute position
[09:31:12] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: 'just' that is what you need after a stall or power outage to recover work
[09:31:20] <Tom_itx> so for a couple hundred + shipping you can have both
[09:31:22] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with rehoming ?
[09:31:23] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: the alternative is starting over or lots of cussing
[09:31:31] <zeeshan|2> dude i have my machine off right now
[09:31:38] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: nobody has homing switches accurate to 1 step
[09:31:39] <zeeshan|2> iom gonna start my program right from where i left it yesterday
[09:31:47] <zeeshan|2> i home using limit siwtches
[09:31:51] <_abc_> uhhh
[09:31:53] <pcw_home> servos with index do...
[09:31:54] <zeeshan|2> its well within 0.0005" repeatability
[09:32:03] <_abc_> pcw_home: yes but we're back to Renishaw. Almost.
[09:32:14] <zeeshan|2> so i don't know why all this extra work
[09:32:16] <pcw_home> not really
[09:32:18] <zeeshan|2> which can be replaced by a $5 switch
[09:32:19] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: I don't believe you.
[09:32:31] <zeeshan|2> abc do you have your own machines
[09:32:33] <zeeshan|2> w/ a switch?
[09:32:34] <_abc_> pcw_home: well 3 servo drives cost as much as ONE chinese 3d gantry...
[09:32:39] <zeeshan|2> you can do the test yourself
[09:32:42] <zeeshan|2> and see for yoruself.
[09:32:46] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: I have and I work with 3 different machines.
[09:32:55] <zeeshan|2> okay then setup a dial indicator near the axis end
[09:32:59] <zeeshan|2> and keep homing.
[09:33:06] <zeeshan|2> you'll see it'll be well within 0.0005"
[09:33:21] <zeeshan|2> if you want, i can set it up for you over live stream
[09:33:24] <zeeshan|2> and show you on my machine
[09:33:27] <_abc_> zeeshan|2: and the zeros are fancy magnetic proximity ones and it is NOT in one step, more 0.5mm at best. Admittedly, Chinese, stepper, open loop.
[09:33:40] <zeeshan|2> im talking about mechanical limit switches
[09:33:42] <zeeshan|2> not proximity
[09:33:49] <zeeshan|2> actually one of mine is proximity
[09:34:04] <zeeshan|2> 0.5 mm ??
[09:34:07] <_abc_> So if youuse normal mechanical switches for homing, the home position will depend on temperature, the time of day, and the number of cycles done so far.
[09:34:08] <zeeshan|2> what?!?
[09:34:39] <Tom_itx> he's saying the switch isn't accurately repeatable
[09:34:47] <zeeshan|2> i can see temperature effecting it
[09:34:51] <pcw_home> yeah good mechanical switches should be no worse than a few mills
[09:34:52] <pcw_home> index is withing 1 encoder count
[09:35:03] <zeeshan|2> but they're not going to be as bad as .5mm
[09:35:06] <_abc_> pcw_home: define 'good mechanical switches' please?
[09:35:27] <zeeshan|2> abc, its a REALLY easy test to convince yourself.
[09:35:28] <Tom_itx> i call rubbish... most machines i've seen used mechanical switches for homing
[09:35:29] <_abc_> Most people use $1 each hysterezis microswitches.
[09:35:31] <zeeshan|2> you really should do it
[09:35:43] <zeeshan|2> abc i've used both cheapos and good ones
[09:35:50] <_abc_> Just get your machine started and we'll talk in a few weeks
[09:35:53] <zeeshan|2> i haven't detected any difference between the two
[09:35:57] <_abc_> Especially after power goes out and so on
[09:36:01] <zeeshan|2> dude
[09:36:04] <zeeshan|2> the power is OFF right now!!
[09:36:10] <zeeshan|2> i need to do op4 on my parts
[09:36:17] <zeeshan|2> im about to boot up and do warm up program
[09:36:17] <pcw_home> microswitch for example are often repeatable to a mill or so (but long term will drift)
[09:36:38] <pcw_home> homing to index is much better
[09:37:02] <_abc_> Microswitch repeatable to 25 microns? Hear hear. What brand? What about the lever's play / backlash alone which accounts for 10 mils by itself for assembly tolerance reasons alone?
[09:37:08] <pcw_home> Proxes are much worse
[09:37:20] <zeeshan|2> let me setup this test for you
[09:37:25] <zeeshan|2> so this arguement is completely shut off
[09:37:26] <_abc_> Please don't.
[09:37:37] <zeeshan|2> then you have no argument :P
[09:37:38] <pcw_home> backlash makes no difference
[09:37:46] <zeeshan|2> lol @ backlash on switch
[09:38:02] <uw> hi who knows about mesa controller?
[09:38:06] <_abc_> sigh. The lever is not seated on a knife edge to be precise, and it is not a precise flexure.
[09:38:18] <zeeshan|2> abc you can analyze the switch all you want
[09:38:20] <Wolf_> inductive prox are fun… mine will sometimes trigger with the target far enough in that I need to override to finish homing
[09:38:21] <zeeshan|2> ultimately you need to test it.
[09:38:23] <zeeshan|2> if it works, it works
[09:38:27] <zeeshan|2> you have clearly never tested it yourself
[09:38:29] <_abc_> Wolf_: true.
[09:38:37] <Tom_itx> uw, what are you looking for?
[09:38:41] <_abc_> Wolf_: Also there's a big difference between makes. Found that out when replacing one.
[09:39:05] <zeeshan|2> you can't just replace a switch
[09:39:08] <uw> is a 7i77e device going to be made?
[09:39:10] <zeeshan|2> and hope it'll be in the same position
[09:39:11] <zeeshan|2> it wont be.
[09:39:17] <Wolf_> ya mean the ones I got for $2 each might be not so good? lmao
[09:39:24] <_abc_> plonk zeeshan|2
[09:39:30] <Tom_itx> uw, that's a PCW or pcw_home question
[09:39:32] <zeeshan|2> 7i77 uw it already comes with 5 encoder inputs
[09:39:58] <_abc_> Wolf_: 24V prox switches are not $2 but yes essentially things 'vary'. Enough to need new holes for the reference bar sensed by the switch.
[09:40:00] <Tom_itx> maybe he meant ethernet?
[09:40:04] <zeeshan|2> o
[09:40:07] <uw> yes however you need an interface card
[09:40:13] <uw> yes thats correct
[09:40:22] <pcw_home> Probably not for a while (though you can use a 7I77 and a 7I92M)
[09:40:59] <uw> ok thank you
[09:41:07] <pcw_home> I will have the 7I97 out sooner (low cost Ethernet 7I77 with a bit less I/O)
[09:41:19] <zeeshan|2> man isn't it awesome
[09:41:25] <zeeshan|2> first thing in the morning, im arguing my brains out
[09:41:26] <zeeshan|2> :{
[09:41:37] <Tom_itx> u started it.
[09:41:39] <Wolf_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181561725834 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181618495090 OK only one of them was ~$2 lol
[09:41:42] <zeeshan|2> haha thats true
[09:41:46] <zeeshan|2> i need to stop caring
[09:41:47] <zeeshan|2> :D
[09:41:50] <uw> oh so theres a 7i97 device? do you have a list of what it can do?
[09:42:15] <uw> just a quick over view like number of analog outs and encoder inputs?
[09:42:17] <zeeshan|2> i found a bug in linuxcnc yesterday
[09:42:29] <zeeshan|2> i do not know how i did it though -- which is a problem
[09:42:31] <Tom_itx> i wish i knew more about sw sheetmetal functions
[09:42:38] <pcw_home> It has 6 encoder and 6 analog outs but only 11 inputs and 6 outputs
[09:42:59] <zeeshan|2> i have 4 coordinates that i've written down for g54 for my fixture
[09:43:07] <uw> oh i think that will be plenty
[09:43:13] <zeeshan|2> i manually input g10 l2 p1 x y z
[09:43:21] <zeeshan|2> i noticed that axis wasn't updated correctly
[09:43:32] <zeeshan|2> so it actually thought one of my tools would overshoot
[09:43:42] <zeeshan|2> *exceed limit
[09:43:59] <zeeshan|2> but i did it again for another coordinate after i was done machining that op
[09:44:07] <zeeshan|2> it never happened :P
[09:44:27] <zeeshan|2> someone try to replicate? :D
[09:44:37] <Tom_itx> so after the G10 L2 axis didn't update?
[09:44:41] <zeeshan|2> yes
[09:44:43] <Tom_itx> tell devel
[09:44:45] <Wolf_> mine was doing that last night on the Z axis, but it was due to me only doing a tool touch off and not reg touch off
[09:44:45] <uw> pcw_home do you have an aprox date when that wil be avail?
[09:44:46] <zeeshan|2> thats what it seems like
[09:44:59] <zeeshan|2> i don't want to waste their time
[09:45:02] <zeeshan|2> until someone else can replicate it
[09:45:06] <zeeshan|2> and i can replicate it again today
[09:45:18] <pcw_home> probably about 6 months
[09:46:12] <uw> ok thank you for responding
[09:46:31] <pcw_home> if you want a Ethernet one now I would just use a 7I77 + 7I92H
[09:47:21] <zeeshan|2> so i got one of my first cars that i bought when i was 18
[09:47:24] <zeeshan|2> going to the junkyard
[09:47:28] <zeeshan|2> it is a sad moment :{P
[09:50:13] <uw> ok i have never checked out the 7i92H yet but will. frankly i didnt know i was just obsessively looking for a 7i77e device
[09:50:36] <uw> but i will check it out now
[09:51:29] <zeeshan|2> aventtini: im glad to hear update :D
[09:51:48] <aventtini> zee it working really nice
[09:52:03] <aventtini> but i cant start work because of the mgp wheel
[09:52:20] <aventtini> i will try to set up the original handwheel
[09:52:36] <zeeshan|2> aventtini: you know that original handwheel on the mikron
[09:52:41] <zeeshan|2> is worth $500?
[09:52:44] <zeeshan|2> i sold mine for that
[09:52:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[09:52:57] <zeeshan|2> it is a very common thing to break
[09:53:00] <aventtini> :))))
[09:53:01] <zeeshan|2> by careless operator
[09:53:05] <zeeshan|2> so it sells fast
[09:53:10] <aventtini> 500
[09:53:13] <aventtini> shit
[09:53:20] <zeeshan|2> i sold all my tnc stuff for 2000
[09:53:27] <zeeshan|2> thats why i replaced with modern stuff
[09:53:43] <zeeshan|2> tnc + tr15 bosch
[09:53:51] <aventtini> here is not that expensive
[09:54:06] <aventtini> must be crazy ho pay 2000
[09:54:14] <aventtini> but is a good deal for you
[09:54:20] <zeeshan|2> not many mikron in north america
[09:54:25] <zeeshan|2> or even deckel or maho
[09:54:47] <aventtini> i know for that yes no parts
[09:58:33] <_abc_> What does [EMCIO] RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER = 1 do exactly please?
[09:59:46] <robinsz> deckel maho stuff is awesome
[10:00:23] <robinsz> _abc_ it enables the random toolchanger code, for nonordered toolchangers
[10:00:48] <jdh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolChange
[10:00:54] <robinsz> _abc_, you know how some toolchangers always put tool 1 back in slot 1?
[10:01:14] <robinsz> a random changer swaps the tool that is coming out, with the one that is going in
[10:01:43] <robinsz> so the tool rack gets messed up pretty quick, you have to run a small database to keep track of what is where
[10:01:58] <uw> pcw_home would i use the 7i92H or the 7i92M to plug directly into the 7i77?
[10:02:02] <uw> no cables
[10:02:53] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-mill how do i copy geometry to an offset plane?
[10:03:32] <Tom_itx> ||
[10:04:13] <Sync> aventtini: that is pretty cheap for a control btw
[10:04:19] <Sync> people will pay more than that
[10:05:31] <robinsz> _abc_, did I read that right, you are using proximity sensors for zero?
[10:06:27] <robinsz> I hope only for a rough zero, then using index pulse on the encoder for the actual zero ... prox sensors drift a LOT
[10:09:00] <Wolf_Mill> Think thats me w/ prox as home switch, but I'm goign to change that on V2 of my machine, do prox for limits and micro switch for homes
[10:13:42] <zeeshan-mill> Tom_itx, just project it?
[10:13:46] <zeeshan-mill> or copy and paste
[10:13:56] <zeeshan-mill> my lube component is working correctly
[10:14:08] <zeeshan-mill> it faulted out cause the float switch tripped
[10:15:00] <zeeshan-mill> i need to tie that fault output to machine power in linuxcnc
[10:15:10] <zeeshan-mill> right now it just shows a led on
[10:16:02] <robinsz> Wolf_Mill, yep, or use the index pulse on your encoders
[10:16:16] <pcw_home> turning off machine power might be a bit drastic
[10:17:14] <zeeshan-mill> PCW, i want to stop the current program from running
[10:17:35] <zeeshan-mill> cause my vertical head gear train gets the same way lube
[10:17:57] <robinsz> seems a bit drastic
[10:18:14] <zeeshan-mill> if machine power is off, i would be forced to figure out what was causing it
[10:18:19] <zeeshan-mill> right now i got lucky i saw the led lit up
[10:18:32] <pcw_home> bigger LED
[10:18:38] <zeeshan-mill> and what if im away while the program is running?
[10:18:40] <robinsz> or prevent program start
[10:18:49] <zeeshan-mill> okay so then kill current program
[10:18:55] <zeeshan-mill> and put up a warning style like on the bottom right
[10:19:03] <pcw_home> how long can it run without adding lube?
[10:19:03] <zeeshan-mill> when you get axis limit error
[10:19:11] <jdh> buzzer
[10:19:11] <zeeshan-mill> no idea :)
[10:19:13] <robinsz> but dumping power in the middle of the current program and wreckign a part seems a bit drastic just because lube is running low
[10:19:18] <pcw_home> email
[10:19:22] <jdh> sms
[10:19:25] <zeeshan-mill> hahaha
[10:19:34] <robinsz> my lube system runs once every couple of hours
[10:19:35] <jdh> all seem more reasonable than trashing a part
[10:19:59] <robinsz> I get a warning light, and top up at the start of the next day
[10:20:08] <zeeshan-mill> i wouldnt be worried about ways
[10:20:16] <zeeshan-mill> but i got a drip lube on the vertical head gear train
[10:20:25] <zeeshan-mill> im sure itd be fine without any drip for a couple hours
[10:20:34] <pcw_home> maybe a warning and then a timeout before stopping program
[10:20:37] <zeeshan-mill> but thats why i was more wanting to take drastic action
[10:20:47] <zeeshan-mill> why would you wreck the part btw
[10:20:49] <zeeshan-mill> by stopping the prog?
[10:20:51] <robinsz> or replace the led with a buzzer
[10:21:18] <pcw_home> siren
[10:21:19] <zeeshan-mill> i think a warning like the ones that come up wehn you hit a limit switch would catch my attetion
[10:21:21] <zeeshan-mill> those are annoying
[10:22:50] <robinsz> I really need to get a workign pause function sorted on this router, keep talking about it, fail to actually do it
[10:24:09] <zeeshan-mill> pause like how
[10:24:33] <robinsz> pause like for a router, so Z axis up, then spindle off
[10:24:43] <zeeshan-mill> like moveoff?
[10:25:18] <robinsz> no idea, I keep reading stuff about "jog while paused" which is almost what I want
[10:25:35] <zeeshan-mill> that would be useful
[10:25:37] <robinsz> and I think I read somethign that was very much like what I wnatedm then forgot
[10:25:40] <magnifikus> http://imgur.com/a/RCKBO done :) spartan3 based 5axis cnc driver
[10:25:51] <robinsz> im not fussed about jogging while paused
[10:25:54] <zeeshan-mill> ive made the mistake in my gcode where there is no g28 z0 then g28 y0
[10:25:57] <zeeshan-mill> and i cant put in the damn tool
[10:26:02] <zeeshan-mill> have to reset the program :D
[10:26:18] <robinsz> you mean G3 Z0
[10:26:33] <zeeshan-mill> g3?
[10:26:52] <robinsz> move to axis position (ignoring all offsets)
[10:27:03] <zeeshan-mill> i dunno i use g28
[10:27:04] <robinsz> so retract Z to real machin zero
[10:27:10] <zeeshan-mill> which moves it to the machine zero
[10:27:25] <zeeshan-mill> g3 isnt that arc interpolation
[10:27:43] <jdh> g3 is ccw arc
[10:28:34] <robinsz> hmm, what did I mean ...
[10:28:41] <jdh> g30 maybe
[10:28:47] <robinsz> G30
[10:28:54] <robinsz> see, it had a 3 in it
[10:29:49] <robinsz> G30 goes to a specified axis position
[10:30:09] <robinsz> G28 sets the home position, or will go to the home position
[10:30:42] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-mill, do you know about copying geometry?
[10:30:51] <Tom_itx> how you get the point you want to insert it...
[10:32:28] <zeeshan-mill> honestly i havent done it like that tom
[10:32:30] <zeeshan-mill> i paste it
[10:32:32] <aventtini> pcw i got some ITX boards to test them on a Bever mill that i want to retrofit
[10:32:33] <Tom_itx> i use G28 Z0 for that
[10:32:35] <zeeshan-mill> it comes to some arbritary position
[10:32:43] <zeeshan-mill> then you select all the entities
[10:32:46] <zeeshan-mill> and click copy
[10:32:49] <Tom_itx> yeah but how can you paste it where you want?
[10:32:52] <Tom_itx> i did that
[10:32:55] <zeeshan-mill> and choose your base point and move where you want
[10:33:04] <Tom_itx> from one plane to another
[10:33:12] <zeeshan-mill> it seems to paste it wherever your mouse is
[10:33:21] <Tom_itx> basically i need to mirror a plane
[10:33:32] <_abc_> Tom_itx: TOOL_CHANGE_AT_G30=1 TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP=1 probably?
[10:33:37] <_abc_> Maybe I misunderstood?
[10:34:07] <Tom_itx> i didn't direct anything with G30 in it to you
[10:34:18] <_abc_> ok
[10:35:18] <_abc_> TOOL_CHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON=1 is needed for what? Are there tool changers which require spindle on to work? Sounds dangerous?
[10:36:01] <pcw_home> Yes some need spindle orientation
[10:36:31] <_abc_> Ah ok
[10:36:40] <_abc_> Not for mills I assume.
[10:37:00] <pcw_home> which of course require the spindle to be on (yes mills)
[10:37:26] <_abc_> spindle on but not turning? Or turning very slowly to engage some dog? Sounds weird.
[10:37:38] <_abc_> Should not be called 'spindle indexed for tool change' or such?
[10:38:03] <pcw_home> yes slow turning to usually a index position
[10:38:26] <_abc_> When tool changing manually, using Tx M6, is the unit in jog and mdi capable mode while the dialog is on screen?
[10:39:41] <_abc_> Also is there some way to control the gui's display of the selected tool's 'diameter' from tool.tbl at runtime? Does the cone shape stay the way it was if no tool diameter was given in any Tx entry?
[10:40:00] <_abc_> The gui changes the cone to a thin line by default, which is hard to see.
[10:40:13] <_abc_> Any tricks to avoid that? I use very thin mills usually.
[10:53:31] <Sync> zeeshan-mill: air powered horn on the error line
[10:56:06] <furrywolf> stupid tweekers... there was an anti-crime ralley the day before yesterday. people with signs trying to get the police to do something about the homeless problem. one of said problem apparantly didn't notice, and tried breaking into a car right in front of them.
[10:57:31] <fenn> maybe it was a political statement
[10:57:46] <Sync> well, the obvious thugs usually are notice less
[10:58:58] <malcom2073> Freaking heavy machines. Moving the thing 1/8th inch at a time across my garage floor, don't seem to be making any progress though heh
[11:00:54] <Sync> put steel bars under it
[11:01:11] <furrywolf> https://twitter.com/SWatsonEPD/status/650488421752815617/photo/1
[11:01:43] <malcom2073> Sync: I've got rollers under it, only helps so much
[11:01:51] <malcom2073> No room to get big rollers, so I have tiny ones heh
[11:01:59] <furrywolf> too bad the cops got to him before the anti-crime people... otherwise me might have fallen face-first into the concrete several times while running.
[11:02:06] <Sync> I find bars easier
[11:02:14] <malcom2073> Wait, bars? How so?
[11:02:34] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You walk in, and order a beer
[11:02:38] <malcom2073> Hehe
[11:02:40] <Sync> because they take almost no height
[11:02:58] <malcom2073> Sync: Example usage? You mean to get the mill a half inch off the ground?
[11:02:59] <Jymmm> oh, rods
[11:03:16] <Sync> no
[11:03:26] <Sync> rods, my bad
[11:03:33] <malcom2073> Oh, I'm using round rods as rollers
[11:03:34] <Sync> been a long day
[11:03:57] <Jymmm> you take 1/4-1/2 round rods, place them under heavy thing, roll heavy thing on them, when one pops out the back, you put it back in front again
[11:04:17] <furrywolf> I used 1" water pipe to move my mill. thinner might have been easier, but it worked.
[11:04:21] <malcom2073> Yeah I'm doing that, but there's only about 3" of rolling patch in each corner, the bottom is not flat
[11:04:33] <enleth> Have you seen AvE's recent machine move?
[11:04:42] <furrywolf> I got it on a sheet of 3/4" plywood to solve the unflatness.
[11:04:47] <Jymmm> malcom2073: comealong
[11:04:55] * Wolf_Mill just uses the forklift
[11:05:00] <malcom2073> Shut up Wolf_Mill :P
[11:05:28] <malcom2073> I've got it close to where I need it, but now I have to finagle it into place
[11:05:31] <furrywolf> we tried the forklift... it was too tall to fit through the front of the shop. we'd have had not just to take the door out, but to take the header above it out as well.
[11:05:37] <malcom2073> Rollers work great when going straight :P
[11:05:41] <enleth> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BjksLl9xur0
[11:06:00] <malcom2073> Can't watch youtube on this laptop unfortunatly, ubuntu flash is broken
[11:06:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073: and angles too, just gotta place the rods accordingly
[11:06:07] <furrywolf> malcom2073: arrange the rollers where you want it to go, and push at an appropriate angle, and it'll follow the rollers around the curves.
[11:06:13] <Sync> who uses flash for youtube anyway
[11:06:19] <Jymmm> Sync: me
[11:06:26] * furrywolf doesn't have flash at all
[11:06:40] <malcom2073> furrywolf: That's what I'm doing, it's a very slow process, and it doesn't roll very well
[11:06:47] <malcom2073> Even the corner bottoms aren't that flat
[11:06:58] <Sync> Wolf_Mill: frontloader
[11:07:09] <furrywolf> malcom2073: that's why I put mine on plywood first.
[11:07:13] <malcom2073> I dunno, firefox wants flash to play the video, never bothered with it on this PC, I'll save that to watch from my desktop later
[11:07:17] <Sync> pretty awesome to load a machine and just shove it forwards in the space
[11:07:28] <malcom2073> furrywolf: I don't have any way to lift it to set it on plywood, but that's a good idea
[11:07:32] <furrywolf> I used two strips half the width of the base, so I could tilt it to one side, get one piece under, tilt it the other way, get the other piece under.
[11:07:45] <Jymmm> malcom2073: prybar and a floor jack?
[11:07:47] <furrywolf> I used a digging bar to tilt it
[11:07:49] <malcom2073> We shoved mine off the trailer, got it halfway into the garage before friction took over :P
[11:07:57] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Not with one person :P
[11:08:02] <Wolf_Mill> Sync: yeah, but the forklift w/ sideshifting forks makes it easy to place stuff
[11:08:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Yes, with one person
[11:08:41] <Jymmm> malcom2073: It's called a "lever"
[11:08:41] <malcom2073> I can't operate the prybar *and* place spacers, doing rollers is dangerous enough since I'm pushing them into place with my foot while sitting on the prybar :)
[11:08:42] <enleth> I did that alone using an engine hoist. Not even a pallet jack.
[11:08:48] <malcom2073> I have a 4ft leve
[11:08:49] <malcom2073> lever
[11:09:07] <enleth> malcom2073: you need a piece of pallet board
[11:09:09] <Wolf_Mill> get a bigger lever
[11:09:09] <Sync> ah, Wolf_Mill telescopic handler is the thing I meant
[11:09:13] <Jymmm> add a pipe to it
[11:09:14] <Sync> those are the shit
[11:09:42] <malcom2073> Jymmm: My arms are only so long :P
[11:09:45] <Wolf_Mill> yeah they are great till you need to turn around in a 24'x12' space :P
[11:09:53] <malcom2073> Can't push down on a 4 ft lever and reach the mill 4ft away to put in spacers haha
[11:09:54] <Jymmm> malcom2073: get rope
[11:10:05] <Jymmm> get a stick
[11:10:12] <Sync> you just put stuff in there from the outside :P
[11:10:13] <furrywolf> malcom2073: at some points I had one leg over the prybar while reaching out on one hand with a spacer in the other hand... :P
[11:10:16] <enleth> Sync: unfortunately it costs a lot more to rent them than forklifts
[11:10:23] <malcom2073> furrywolf: That's how I'm pushing in my rolling bars now :P
[11:10:32] <Sync> not if you have a friend who owns one enleth
[11:10:37] <Sync> and it makes stuff so much easier
[11:10:41] <enleth> well, yeah.
[11:10:45] <Jymmm> malcom2073: 5gal bucket of water/sand to hold lever down
[11:11:02] <furrywolf> Jymmm: it takes a lot more weight than that.
[11:11:03] <furrywolf> lol
[11:11:17] <Jymmm> furrywolf: depends on length of lever
[11:11:18] <malcom2073> Jymmm: It takes most of my weight to push the bar down heh
[11:11:30] <enleth> buy a smaller mill to weigh down the pry bar.
[11:11:34] <enleth> win-win.
[11:11:35] <malcom2073> enleth: I like that!
[11:11:39] <Jymmm> enleth++
[11:11:41] <Sync> I also have done some pretty shady rigging with my greifzug
[11:11:59] <Jymmm> Sync: bless you
[11:12:04] <malcom2073> I'll work on it some more, get it as far as I can, and then wait until next weekend when I can get a second pair of hands to help
[11:12:45] <Sync> http://www.feuerwehr-tengen.de/tl_files/ffw/img/tengen/ausruestung/1%20ausruestung%20hilfeleistung/greifzug/bild01.JPG Jymmm those things
[11:12:59] <malcom2073> Sync: comealongs here
[11:13:01] <Jymmm> Sync: Ah, a comealong
[11:13:13] <malcom2073> that's a much nicer one thatn the kind I use haha
[11:13:22] <Jymmm> Yeah it is
[11:13:52] <Sync> the nice thing is that it works on open rope
[11:13:56] <Sync> so you can put it anywhere
[11:14:03] * zeeshan-mill mocks the guy who said limit switches arent repeatable
[11:14:06] <Sync> and pull any length
[11:14:14] * zeeshan-mill just held 0.001 no problem for this part
[11:14:15] <zeeshan-mill> :)
[11:14:19] <zeeshan-mill> "
[11:14:44] <Sync> the only bad thing is that you need the expensive specially tolerated cable for it to be safe™
[11:15:06] <malcom2073> Ah the comalongs I use have the cable built in
[11:15:15] <Sync> yeah, useless :D
[11:15:27] <Jymmm> Sync: This is the crap we usually have to deal with https://www.google.com/images?q=come+along
[11:15:31] <malcom2073> Nah, really useful for bringing two things that are far apart, closer together :P
[11:15:42] <Sync> only if the cable reaches
[11:15:49] <Sync> with the greifzug you can get a drum of rope
[11:15:52] <Sync> reel it somewhere
[11:15:53] <malcom2073> Well yeha, if not you use a strap on the end of the cable :P
[11:16:00] <Jymmm> Sync: Suppose to add/use chain for length
[11:16:12] <Sync> then you can only reel $length_of_cable
[11:16:21] <Sync> ~pull
[11:16:23] <malcom2073> Yep, they're not intended for long distanec hauling
[11:16:23] <furrywolf> I have both a nice aluminum wire rope comelong and a couple chain comealongs... don't buy the harbor freight cheapo stamped steel comealongs. not useful.
[11:16:32] <malcom2073> Be annoying to sit there for 4-5 hours cranking on it haha
[11:16:56] <Sync> there are also motorized ones
[11:17:10] <Jymmm> Sync: Those work on rope, or wire rope (cable) ?
[11:17:36] <enleth> TBH I prefer geared chain hoists.
[11:17:45] <_methods> Tom_itx: yeah i am now for a bit
[11:17:54] <_methods> Tom_itx: whats up?
[11:17:56] <enleth> Can be used as a comealong but much more versalite
[11:18:21] <Jymmm> enleth: Like hoisting your drunk buddy in the air by his belt?
[11:18:26] <enleth> And they are safe to loosen under load.
[11:18:29] <Sync> Jymmm: special steel cable with round outside, I'm sorry I'm not too fit today to keep correct english nomenclature
[11:18:42] <Sync> so is the greizug :D
[11:18:49] <Sync> it is fully reversible under any load
[11:18:53] <Jymmm> Sync: It's all good
[11:18:58] <Sync> so you can use it to position stuff
[11:19:12] <PetefromTn_> mornin' chaps ;)
[11:19:39] <Wolf_Mill> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtyr8h3zqyjn8um/Photo%20Aug%2031%2C%2011%2057%2059%20AM.jpg?dl=0 these work good too :P
[11:19:51] <furrywolf> http://treetools.co.nz/Products/L/Lug-All/cable_large.jpg useful http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_21489.jpg not useful http://www.repair--parts.com/Industrial-Metal-Machines-Parts-/Grinder-Parts-/Surface-Grinder-Parts-/Spindles-/1-1-2-ton-cm-comealong-hoist-worksw-jet-ingersoll-rand-partpix.jpg very useful
[11:20:09] <Jymmm> BTW, Don't buy Black and Decker Coffee Makers, unless you want to return/exchange it ever 60-90 days
[11:20:29] <Wolf_Mill> hmm doesnt really show, 10ton pullback ram
[11:20:39] <enleth> Sync: can you attach it to a ceiling beam and lift straight up?
[11:20:46] <Sync> why not?
[11:21:13] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: I don't know what's going on in that picture... but I like it!
[11:21:31] <Wolf_Mill> pulling the wall of my house back in to square
[11:21:37] <malcom2073> hAH NICE
[11:21:41] <malcom2073> How'd it get unsquare?
[11:21:54] <Wolf_Mill> no footer
[11:21:58] <malcom2073> Whups
[11:24:36] <Sync> http://www.pfeifer.de/fileadmin/user_upload/DE_doc/anschlag-zurrtechnik/download/pruefservice/ersatzteillisten/seilzug/greifzug/ETL_Hand-TU16.pdf shows how the thing works internally
[11:24:55] <Jymmm> Heh, I like this... "What, no tree/post/building to anchor to? NO PROBLEM" http://www.feuerwehr-pritzwalk.de/bilder/lexikon/1371824754.JPG
[11:25:21] <Sync> the earth anchor?
[11:25:27] <Sync> yeah it works pretty well
[11:25:39] <Sync> but they lost a few spikes
[11:26:10] <furrywolf> I built a sand anchor once... two pieces of 1/4" plate on hinges in a V shape with a big bar in the middle. like a boat anchor, kinda.
[11:26:27] <furrywolf> having a winch on your truck doesn't do you much good in the sand without something to hook it to. :)
[11:26:37] <Jymmm> furrywolf: heh
[11:27:14] <Jymmm> furrywolf: just deflate the tires and drive out =)
[11:28:15] <Jymmm> Sync: I do like it, but that's a lot of shit to carry in the car =)
[11:28:41] <Sync> to pull it out?
[11:28:41] <Sync> well
[11:28:48] <Sync> that is the big one
[11:28:50] <Jymmm> Sync: Just to store
[11:29:05] <Sync> there are small tiny ones
[11:29:32] <Jymmm> Ah, here's the earth anchor installed http://www.feuerwehr-eibelshausen.de/Ausruestung-Dateien/Sonstiges2.jpg
[11:30:20] <Jymmm> Sync: how tiny?
[11:30:47] <Sync> 527x265x108mm
[11:30:50] <Sync> 8.4kg
[11:31:03] <Sync> 800kg WLL
[11:31:29] <Jymmm> rope (not wire) comealong https://www.wyeth-scott.com/images/AmsteelBlue2-2189.jpg
[11:32:22] <Sync> they also come in PSA certified, so you can lift persons with it
[11:32:30] <Jymmm> is amsteel really that much better than wire rope?
[11:32:37] <Jymmm> Sync: ah
[11:32:53] <Wolf_Mill> I have amsteel on my 4wheeler, I like it
[11:33:57] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: for towing/pulling out of mud?
[11:34:01] <furrywolf> Jymmm: you can get more-stuck than tire deflation will solve.
[11:34:12] <furrywolf> also, deflating tires too much causes bad things.
[11:34:14] <Jymmm> Sync: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ODFcebyxZxo/maxresdefault.jpg
[11:34:26] <Jymmm> furrywolf: k
[11:34:41] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, its on the utility winch
[11:35:23] <Sync> what if you do stuff like this and want to lower http://www.bfk-moedling.at/index.php5?page_type=graphic&quality=&id=148&pic=012&press_token= ?
[11:35:59] <malcom2073> You lower one notch at a time
[11:36:15] <malcom2073> Pull, release catch, lower, engauge catch
[11:36:17] <malcom2073> not very safe.
[11:37:41] <furrywolf> Jymmm: with tubeless tires you can pop the bead, and be really stuck, since you can't add air and have to jack and dig it out of the sand to fix it. with tubed tires, like my truck has, you spin the tire and rip the valve stem off the tube, needing not only to jack and dig the wheel out, but to buy a new tube too.
[11:38:46] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I suppose which is worse... replacing tube/tire or the 10 ton tow truck to get you out
[11:39:37] <furrywolf> worse is BOTH, since you still need the tow truck after ruining your tube. :P
[11:39:50] <Jymmm> furrywolf: true enough =)
[11:39:55] <Sync> and then the tow truck gets stuck
[11:40:00] <Jymmm> I really like that earth anchor
[11:40:15] <Jymmm> Sync: We've done that. Was a friends tow truck too.
[11:40:40] <zeeshan|2> lol sync
[11:40:43] <Jymmm> Sync: took use 2 hours to ge the tow truck unstuck, then 4 hours to get the car unstuck =)
[11:40:45] <zeeshan|2> need a tow truck for the two truck !
[11:40:54] <zeeshan|2> *tow
[11:40:59] <furrywolf> http://b.cdnbrm.com/images/products/rell/winches/smittybilt_wasp_in_sand.jpg the one I built is kinda shaped like that, except not ricer.
[11:41:05] <furrywolf> that's the offroad version of rice.
[11:41:14] <zeeshan|2> wh ats rice about it
[11:41:19] <fenn> once you've mastered the earth anchor you must advance to the sea anchor, the sky anchor, and the rocket anchor
[11:41:34] <furrywolf> http://www.pullpal.com/images/pullpal14a.jpg there, more like that one.
[11:41:44] <zeeshan|2> is it hard to remove thje anchor
[11:41:46] <zeeshan|2> after youve used it
[11:41:50] <furrywolf> except mine had hinges in the middle so it folded flatter.
[11:41:53] <zeeshan|2> id think it'd be a pain in the ass to remove it!
[11:42:08] <furrywolf> they pull up or backwards. :)
[11:42:26] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: is your definition of ricer
[11:42:29] <zeeshan|2> anything that is well built? :)
[11:42:37] <PetefromTn_> I had one of those in my recovery box in my samurai
[11:42:49] <furrywolf> no, things that are made to look like something they're not, usually excessively shiny.
[11:42:54] <PetefromTn_> used it a couple times
[11:43:02] <zeeshan|2> lol
[11:43:07] <PetefromTn_> worked pretty good but pulled out of some mud a few times
[11:43:11] <zeeshan|2> that anchor looks goiod to me :P
[11:43:25] <furrywolf> yeah, the one I built is a good bit larger than a pullpal.
[11:43:27] <fenn> looks like a horse drawn plough
[11:43:40] <Sync> it is powdercoated, nothing ricer about it
[11:43:42] <zeeshan|2> who wants to find me a nakamura tome 3 pdf manual? :D
[11:43:49] <furrywolf> won't pull out. also, my truck weighs twice what a sammy does. or more. :)
[11:43:52] <zeeshan|2> ricer is 21" wheels
[11:43:57] <zeeshan|2> with stretched tires
[11:44:00] <PetefromTn_> mine sure did
[11:44:02] <zeeshan|2> and 10 degrees of camber!
[11:44:06] <zeeshan|2> -10
[11:44:08] <PetefromTn_> but I was stuck pretty damn good LOL
[11:44:30] <Wolf_Mill> I'm planning 22.5" on my truck :P
[11:44:38] <Wolf_Mill> no stretch
[11:44:46] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: found it
[11:44:50] <furrywolf> I have 38.5" swampers on 16" rims. sidewall is a good thing. :P
[11:44:50] <zeeshan|2> lies
[11:44:51] <zeeshan|2> :P
[11:45:00] <Sync> zeeshan|2: talked to the vehicle inspection guy, he is okay with me putting the galant EA0 dual piston calipers
[11:45:01] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: It's ALL in kanji =)
[11:45:18] <zeeshan|2> really? :D
[11:45:20] <zeeshan|2> i dont mind that
[11:45:33] <furrywolf> you have to have your calipers approved by someone? that's even worse than california.
[11:45:39] <zeeshan|2> sync interesting
[11:45:51] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: lol
[11:45:55] <Sync> but in the long run I'll have fq400 alcon brakes
[11:45:58] <zeeshan|2> i always thought critical things like brakes
[11:45:59] <PetefromTn_> I had 35's on my zuk
[11:46:02] <zeeshan|2> should be inspected if you retrofit
[11:46:07] <Sync> yes
[11:46:15] <Sync> but I change the complete system from another car
[11:46:19] <PetefromTn_> swampers
[11:46:20] <furrywolf> I swapped rear disc brakes onto my subaru... they stop better than stock. :)
[11:46:26] <Sync> so he has reason to expect them to be reliable
[11:46:27] <Sync> and work
[11:46:28] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: problem is you did it!
[11:46:30] <zeeshan|2> mcguiver!
[11:46:35] * zeeshan|2 hides
[11:46:39] <furrywolf> my car never came with rear disc... used brakes off a new subaru.
[11:46:42] <furrywolf> newer
[11:47:24] <Jymmm> does that sand anchor work in mud?
[11:47:38] <furrywolf> dunno, never tried it. I don't like mud. :P
[11:47:42] <furrywolf> mud is muddy!
[11:47:51] <zeeshan|2> マニュアル
[11:47:57] <zeeshan|2> thats how you say manual in japense
[11:47:59] <zeeshan|2> japanese
[11:47:59] <PetefromTn_> MUD is your FRIEND!!
[11:48:01] <zeeshan|2> :D
[11:48:11] <zeeshan|2> Manyuaru
[11:48:17] <Sync> zeeshan|2: and yeah he will inspect it and measure brake load and distribution
[11:48:18] <fenn> presumably you want an english manual
[11:48:28] <zeeshan|2> fenn: jap is ok, just need pictures
[11:48:31] <Jymmm> Sync: for how much?
[11:48:39] <zeeshan|2> it'd be nice to study the lift locations for the lathe
[11:48:45] <zeeshan|2> will help for tomorrow
[11:48:51] <furrywolf> ¡ɔɹᴉ uo ǝpoɔᴉun ɹoɟ ʎɐ⅄
[11:48:54] <zeeshan|2> they have the physical copies
[11:48:57] <Sync> depends on the time he spends on it
[11:50:24] <uw> How would you recommend getting a lathe upstairs from a basement?
[11:50:37] <furrywolf> ... measuring brake load and distribution? seriously? unless you're designing a vehicle for mass production, that's absurd.
[11:50:48] <furrywolf> uw: crane.
[11:50:55] <Jymmm> uwe_: explosives
[11:51:08] <zeeshan|2> uw in pieces :)
[11:51:22] <uw> yea crane sounds expensive
[11:51:30] <furrywolf> how big of a lathe, anyway? :P
[11:51:35] <uw> pieces though, that might be what ends up happening
[11:51:39] <zeeshan|2> brake load distribution test:
[11:51:43] <zeeshan|2> "brake hard"
[11:51:43] <furrywolf> skids + comealong works for mid-sized lathes....
[11:51:47] <uw> it's called a victor 1640
[11:51:54] <zeeshan|2> if car moves to the left or right
[11:51:56] <zeeshan|2> you got an issue :P
[11:52:03] <zeeshan|2> assuming all other suspension components are ok
[11:52:06] <uw> it's bigger than my lathe but im sure not the biggest
[11:52:06] <furrywolf> I do not know what a victor 1640 is. how big is it and how much does it weigh
[11:52:19] <Sync> furrywolf: why?
[11:52:21] <zeeshan|2> abom79 has that lathe
[11:52:22] <zeeshan|2> its massive
[11:52:25] <Sync> they measure it with every inspection
[11:52:44] <Jymmm> uw: http://www.ff-hoermsdorf.com/uploads/pics/Greifzug_LG2_2012091602.jpg
[11:53:13] <furrywolf> ... because that takes stupidly expensive machines and time?
[11:53:23] <Sync> it takes like 30s
[11:53:30] <Sync> you drive over the rollers
[11:53:33] <Sync> brake hard
[11:53:38] <Sync> drive to the rear axle
[11:53:39] <Sync> brake
[11:53:40] <Sync> done
[11:53:44] <fenn> man, if i ever have a company i'm going to have a big page with every manual on it for anyone to download
[11:54:00] <furrywolf> fenn: come companies do that. Fluke comes to mind.
[11:54:01] <uw> http://i.imgur.com/9apF6jl.gif this is about the size furrywolf
[11:54:04] <furrywolf> s/come/some
[11:54:05] <fenn> there's no reason anyone should have to search around for a manual
[11:54:12] <Sync> you like that thing, don't you Jymmm?
[11:54:14] <uw> Jymmm: yea, that sure looks like a nightmare LOL
[11:54:33] <furrywolf> uw? wrong url?
[11:54:41] <zeeshan|2> rofl uw
[11:54:42] <zeeshan|2> hahahah
[11:54:43] <uw> im sorry furrywolf yes it was wrong picture
[11:54:53] <zeeshan|2> that pciture does apply to furry though
[11:54:54] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[11:54:55] <Jymmm> Sync: Yep, all we have here is the comealong and then chain. Nothing on the smaller side that uses cable (wire rope)
[11:54:59] <zeeshan|2> jk
[11:55:24] <zeeshan|2> fenn: then they cant charge you $$$ for it
[11:55:29] <zeeshan|2> they give you hard copies w/ the machine
[11:55:32] <zeeshan|2> but electronic copies are $$
[11:55:36] <zeeshan|2> fanuc is the worse for this
[11:55:36] <uw> furrywolf: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kenm10759/media/Dads%20shop/IMG_1534-r.jpg.html
[11:55:48] <Jymmm> Sync: It be nice to have soemthing to pull/move fallen trees in the road.
[11:55:49] <uw> its exactly that but different color
[11:55:54] <zeeshan|2> youre going to need special equipment
[11:55:57] <zeeshan|2> to bring that up from the basement
[11:56:00] <zeeshan|2> if there are stairs.
[11:56:20] <furrywolf> heh, I'm trying to arrange something overly complex. I posted some cordless tools on craigslist. Someone answered asking if he can come by and buy them on his way to somewhere else. There's something on the somewhere else's craigslist that I want. I told him I'll give him the tools free if he calls the guy on the somewhere else craigslist and picks the things up for me. :)
[11:56:29] <uw> there are 5 concrete stairs and yes i agree
[11:56:43] <PetefromTn_> hell I would just throw it on my back and walk up the stairs with that puny thing LOL
[11:56:43] <zeeshan|2> lol furry
[11:56:49] <uw> I got a quote for $1200 for a rigging company to get it out and might just pay them
[11:56:50] <zeeshan|2> haha pete
[11:56:56] <furrywolf> uw: where are you located?
[11:56:57] <uw> i was trying to be cheap but might just pay
[11:57:00] <uw> north NJ
[11:57:03] <zeeshan|2> uw - cheap, worth it
[11:57:11] <furrywolf> are the stairs a straight pull, or do you have corners or other annoying things between them and the door?
[11:57:15] <Sync> shall I buy you one and send it to you Jymmm? :P
[11:57:32] <uw> the stairs go right out to the outside
[11:57:42] <furrywolf> put on skids, chain to truck, pull.
[11:57:46] <uw> one of those slanted door things that are on the ground
[11:58:09] <Sync> furrywolf: re the expensive machines, if you are a vehicle inspection place there is no way around expensive machinery
[11:58:11] <zeeshan|2> i wnder if yuou can just pull it up with a forklift
[11:58:13] <zeeshan|2> and a chain
[11:58:16] <Jymmm> Sync: Might have to, zero found on ebay usa
[11:59:08] <Loetmichel> [Evil scientist laughter] *HA* IT LIVES AGAIN! [/Evil scientist laughter] -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15993&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[11:59:33] <furrywolf> Sync: the only brake test I've ever seen was "drive to the yellow line and stomp on them". here there's no brake test at all.
[11:59:53] <Sync> well, you have to have a 6 gas exhaust tester
[11:59:59] <furrywolf> yay clitmice.
[12:00:01] <Sync> light checker
[12:00:02] <zeeshan|2> Loetmichel: wha tdid you call way cover in german
[12:00:06] <zeeshan|2> a month ago
[12:00:09] <zeeshan|2> it wasn't balg
[12:00:11] <zeeshan|2> it was something else
[12:00:23] <furrywolf> we only test three gasses. you're worse than california!
[12:00:44] <Loetmichel> zeeshan-mill: faltenbalg
[12:00:54] <zeeshan|2> thank you
[12:00:56] <zeeshan|2> that was it!~
[12:01:23] <Sync> furrywolf: HC, CO, CO2, O2, NO, NO2 and NOx
[12:02:03] <malcom2073> We don't even test gasses here, just plug in and verify no CEL
[12:02:19] <Wolf_Mill> same here
[12:02:43] <Sync> oh and you need a wheel shaker as an inspection place
[12:02:45] <furrywolf> we test HC, CO, NOx... we measure O2 but not importantly.
[12:03:28] <zeeshan|2> EURO 249,00 exkl. gesetzl. MwSt, zzgl. Versandkosten
[12:03:28] <zeeshan|2> ?
[12:03:30] <zeeshan|2> what is this
[12:03:33] <zeeshan|2> wtf is vat
[12:03:38] <furrywolf> they only measure O2 to make sure you're not blowing air into the exhaust to dilute everything else. probably could hide a N2 tank somewhere. :P
[12:03:42] <Sync> http://www.abload.de/img/bremsenpruefstandvek4g.jpg
[12:03:49] <Praesmeodymium> VAt is tax
[12:03:56] <Sync> value added tax
[12:03:57] <zeeshan|2> all euro have to pay it?
[12:04:01] <Sync> ye
[12:04:13] <zeeshan|2> sync help me plz
[12:04:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.zoelch.de/shop/shop/USER_ARTIKEL_HANDLING_AUFRUF.php?darstellen=1&Kategorie_ID=114&Ziel_ID=1705&anzeigen_ab=&sort=Name&order=desc&PEPPERSESS=5a6bd6d80006b274a3d74591e7e22a6e
[12:04:25] <Sync> yes
[12:04:25] <zeeshan|2> i cant surf that website cause the button are in german
[12:04:26] <furrywolf> wheel shaker?
[12:04:28] <Sync> wat is problem
[12:04:40] <Sync> furrywolf: a platform that moves from side to side
[12:04:41] <zeeshan|2> in den warenkorb
[12:04:47] <zeeshan|2> that means add to cart?
[12:04:49] <Sync> you can easily see fucked balljoints
[12:04:51] <Sync> yes zeeshan|2
[12:04:53] <furrywolf> never seen one of those
[12:04:59] <furrywolf> why the hell do they care about your balljoints
[12:05:18] <Sync> so you don't die when they pop out
[12:06:02] <furrywolf> any ball joint in danger of popping out will have obvious symptoms long before then.
[12:06:14] <furrywolf> and the government's job is only to keep you from killing other people, not yourself.
[12:06:51] <zeeshan|2> http://www.zoelch.de/plan.htm
[12:06:54] <zeeshan|2> is this near you sync? :D
[12:07:31] <Sync> yes furrywolf, but people will not care, and you can easily spot broken suspension mounts that way too
[12:08:08] <zeeshan|2> http://www.zoelch.de/shop/shop/USER_ADMIN_HILFE.php?lang=de&javascript_enabled=true&Hilfe_ID=top&PEPPERSESS=5a6bd6d80006b274a3d74591e7e22a6e
[12:08:13] <zeeshan|2> where is the contact on this page?
[12:08:18] <Sync> not even close zeeshan|2
[12:08:23] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:08:24] <furrywolf> ... I care if my vehicle drives properly. :P
[12:14:19] <PetefromTn_> Man it is a beautiful day here today in East Tennessee
[12:14:30] <zeeshan|2> its freezing up here man
[12:14:45] <PetefromTn_> I am sure I will be saying that soon LOL
[12:14:50] <PetefromTn_> I HATE COLD!!
[12:14:54] <zeeshan|2> me too :(
[12:15:18] <PetefromTn_> warming up the Cinci right now to make some more rails and test run another program
[12:15:55] <furrywolf> got down to 41 degrees last night here... but it's nice and sunny today so it'll warm up soon.
[12:16:01] <PetefromTn_> might open up the shop doors today its so nice outside
[12:17:43] * Jymmm got a free 40MPH blow job for 6 hours last night
[12:18:47] * PetefromTn_ usually only lasts a couple minutes at best LOL
[12:18:55] <Jymmm> ... and the pine needles EVERYWHERE to prove it!
[12:19:30] <furrywolf> silicone lasts as long as you want it to. :P
[12:20:07] <Jymmm> till it doens't
[12:20:59] <Jymmm> I have soem strane ass cracks in the silicone on the roof around the wood stove chimney
[12:21:01] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/LwGjEaU Holy Boring bar Batman!!
[12:21:13] <furrywolf> silicone is good at filling ass cracks...
[12:21:46] <Jymmm> Think I might need high temp
[12:21:57] <furrywolf> but I don't think we need to hear about silicone in your ass cracks.
[12:22:14] <PetefromTn_> definitely not...
[12:22:29] <Sync> that's a pretty small one PetefromTn_
[12:23:09] <PetefromTn_> the silicone?
[12:23:11] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[12:23:41] <PetefromTn_> thats WAY bigger than any boring bars I have ever used LOL
[12:26:02] <PetefromTn_> LOL my wife is sanding and painting the living room while I am out here in the shop working on the mill....LIFE IS GOOD!!!
[12:27:48] <furrywolf> that's good, otherwise she'd wonder why we were talking about silicone. :P
[12:29:08] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vise-stop-5-Axis-movement-mill-work-stop-part-locator-1-2-13-table-bolt-/121164910130?hash=item1c35fdce32 or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vise-stop-5-Axis-movement-mill-work-stop-part-locator-/321818088036?hash=item4aedda5264 or http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-AXIS-MILL-STOP-5-8-T-SLOT-Manufacture-Direct-/331669940051?hash=item4d3911a753
[12:29:28] <PetefromTn_> which one do you guys think is better? Thinking of getting one here
[12:35:33] <_abc_> Can anyone tell please what tcl version is installed by default on linuxcnc / debian ?
[12:35:42] <_abc_> 8.5 ? earlyer?
[12:36:49] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: Whichever one looks sturdiest?
[12:36:58] <malcom2073> The last one has a handle, which is nice
[12:39:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah but the handle can get in the way I was thinking...
[12:40:26] <malcom2073> True
[12:40:44] <zeeshan|2> pete make one for you and me!
[12:40:44] <zeeshan|2> :D
[12:40:45] <malcom2073> The middle one looks more strudy than the first
[12:40:59] <malcom2073> And me!
[12:41:00] <zeeshan|2> does your vise not have
[12:41:03] <zeeshan|2> drilled holes on the side?
[12:42:47] <PetefromTn_> I started to draw one but honestly at that price what's the point of making one..
[12:43:09] <PetefromTn_> I like the table mounted stops better they are more functional I think.
[12:43:22] <PetefromTn_> besides a lot of the parts I make go well beyond the vise jaws
[12:43:47] <zeeshan|2> ah that makes sense
[12:44:00] <zeeshan|2> i havent done repeatable parts yet that extended beyond both sides
[12:44:08] <zeeshan|2> i can see why the arm is better now
[12:44:35] <zeeshan|2> pete
[12:44:40] <zeeshan|2> if you look at how many theyve sold
[12:44:44] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vise-stop-5-Axis-movement-mill-work-stop-part-locator-1-2-13-table-bolt-/121164910130?hash=item1c35fdce32
[12:44:48] <zeeshan|2> this one seems to be the most popular
[12:44:53] <zeeshan|2> maybe its popular for a good reason? :D
[12:45:37] <_methods> _abc_: use dpkg -p tcl
[12:46:28] <PetefromTn_> I honestly like that one the best anyway LOL
[12:46:42] <zeeshan|2> only thing is
[12:46:50] <zeeshan|2> do you want to use an allen to to lock it in place
[12:46:55] <zeeshan|2> or use a handle ":P
[12:48:25] <Tom_itx> back to your 5 axis stops ehh?
[12:48:41] * Tom_itx still prefers the dowel pin
[12:48:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I DO use your pin in holder stop too LOL
[12:48:49] <_abc_> _methods: is the tcp interp not specially compiled for the rtai platform?
[12:49:04] <_methods> no idea on that
[12:49:11] <_abc_> _methods: I am not on that mach now so I am asking here, I know how to do it when there...
[12:49:22] <Tom_itx> _methods when i copy sketch from one plane to another how do i find the insert reference point?
[12:49:40] <_methods> insert ref point?
[12:49:45] <Tom_itx> to paste it
[12:50:00] <Tom_itx> i want to select x0 y0 and paste it to x0 y0
[12:50:04] <_methods> ahhhh
[12:50:10] <Tom_itx> on another plane
[12:50:26] <_abc_> Can anyone tell if jog or mdi mode is on when doing a manual tool change using Tx M6 please?
[12:50:29] <Tom_itx> i can copy it...
[12:50:32] <_methods> so you want to copy a sketch to another plane
[12:50:37] <Tom_itx> just haven't figuerd out the paste part
[12:50:38] <Tom_itx> yes
[12:50:46] <_abc_> I will find out tomorrow but now I am just asking...
[12:50:48] <_methods> just click where you want it
[12:50:58] <_methods> then dimension it where you really want it
[12:50:58] <Tom_itx> doesn't seem to paste in the right place
[12:51:01] <_methods> to lock it in
[12:51:14] <_methods> just drop it wherever then define it
[12:51:22] <Tom_itx> just one point?
[12:51:26] <_methods> yeah
[12:51:26] <Tom_itx> or the whole damn thing?
[12:51:33] <_methods> i'd drop the whole thing
[12:51:46] <_methods> select the entire sketch, then you select a point to move from
[12:51:52] <_methods> then you select a point to drop it
[12:52:43] <Tom_itx> not sure how you select the points
[12:52:48] <Tom_itx> this is old SW btw
[12:52:57] <_methods> you should be able to select anywhere
[12:53:08] <_methods> you don't even need to select a certain point
[12:53:18] <_methods> just select teh sketch entities you want to copy
[12:53:32] <_methods> then you select a point on the sketch which will be your move point
[12:53:41] <_methods> then pick where you want to move it to
[12:53:55] <archivist> cant move if fixed :)
[12:54:11] <archivist> be careful of constraints
[12:54:29] <_methods> he's copying i believe
[12:57:49] <_abc_> Is there ANY method to manually move the axes in Auto paused mode, during tool change or otherwise?
[12:58:35] <archivist> jog while paused has caused endless discussion
[12:58:45] <_abc_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ManualWhilePaused yes it has and it will again
[12:58:52] <archivist> and a few attempts to implement
[12:59:24] <Jymmm> _abc_: Do you have any expectations that once manually moved, to return to the location it was once paused?
[12:59:45] <_abc_> Sure. This is for manual tool change and the like
[13:00:18] <_abc_> Jogging simply means moving current coords literally. Resuming is expected to do a G0 to auto saved coords at the time of the pause
[13:00:28] <Jymmm> _abc_: Then why not break up your gcode into section per tool, then it'll be homed each time
[13:00:47] <_abc_> Sure but why break it up when axis is so smart...
[13:00:59] <Jymmm> axis is just a gui
[13:01:07] <_abc_> Yeah well you get what I mean
[13:01:15] <pcw_home> Yeah I think thats normally just done in the gcode, no need for jog-while-paused
[13:01:32] <_abc_> Anyway manual touchoff is needed. I found a way to do it someone wrote a neat script, which overrides M6
[13:01:35] <Jymmm> add a tool change in your gcode?
[13:01:58] <pcw_home> I think the main requirement for jog-while-pause is fixing broken tools etc
[13:02:04] <_abc_> Rephrased: during manual tool change induced by Tx M6 there is a need to manually jog the Z at least
[13:02:33] <pcw_home> why would that not be in the gcode?
[13:02:51] <zeeshan|2> you always do a g28 z0
[13:02:53] <zeeshan|2> after a tool change
[13:02:56] <zeeshan|2> for that exact purpose
[13:03:14] <_abc_> Explain how you can enter a rather random parameter (tool touchoff height) into gcode at runtime, when using a collet which does not allow tool height setting, such as R8, Morse, etc
[13:03:42] <pcw_home> tool table?
[13:03:44] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:03:59] <archivist> a tool probe
[13:04:04] <_abc_> Tool tables contain fixed tool offsets. The tool offset is not fixed, it changes.
[13:04:09] <zeeshan|2> look at g10 l10..
[13:04:19] <zeeshan|2> it allows you to change tool offset
[13:04:21] <_abc_> The tool probe is a touchoff plate which can be used with G38.x or by hand.
[13:04:30] <archivist> a probe adjusts after the change
[13:04:52] <_abc_> How do you use it by hand please, without overriding M6. I already read the scripts on overriding M6. Is there another way.
[13:05:24] <zeeshan|2> abc youre trying to do this if i understand you correctly:
[13:05:27] <_abc_> Rephrased2: Is there a way to enter a touchoff parameter at tool change time, without scripting.
[13:05:33] <zeeshan|2> you call a manual tool change , you put in new tool
[13:05:47] <zeeshan|2> and now you gotta probe it cause you got some r8 stuff which has not a repeatable z
[13:05:58] <zeeshan|2> and you want to set that new offset?
[13:06:28] <Wolf_Mill> i'm hoping going to TTS setup will save me that headache
[13:07:09] <zeeshan|2> if i understand you correctly
[13:07:11] <zeeshan|2> you gotta do this:
[13:07:44] <PetefromTn_> Wolf_Mill it most definitely will
[13:08:08] <zeeshan|2> Txxx M6 G43 ; G28 Z0; some g-code here to move to xy coordinate of your probe ; call you probe routine; take the position where the probe touched and use G10 L10 to set your tool table for the current tool
[13:08:11] <PetefromTn_> or you can try using solid toolholders/endmill holders instead of collets
[13:08:24] <_abc_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/5596-manual-tool-change--tool-lengh-touch-off?limit=6&start=36
[13:08:35] <_abc_> this is how it's done with M6 overriding
[13:11:49] <_abc_> Surely there should be an easyer way, perhaps default shipped, given most newbies will be using a simple machine where tool height control from collet is a distant dream?
[13:14:11] <Wolf_Mill> er20 collet holders w/ shoulders (TTS style) are cheap,hy dream...
[13:14:16] <Wolf_Mill> hy/why
[13:14:28] <_abc_> How hard would it be to add a popup immediately after the 'Insert tool Tx and press ENTER' such that the touchoff popup comes up next?
[13:15:22] <_abc_> Wolf_Mill: it has to work with simple machines with simple collets too. No elitism. They are not as cheap as you think, depending on where one is, and many many jobs I have to do with imply engraving type milling with resharpened mills (= length decreased)
[13:16:49] <archivist> I happen to use separate programs when there is a tool change on the mill
[13:17:00] <PetefromTn_> simplest thing would be to add a home built touch off plate and automated probing macro
[13:17:02] <archivist> I have a tool table on the lathe
[13:17:26] <_abc_> Simplest thing would be to listen to the hundreds of users asking the same question and do something about it http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/21-axis/18843-how-do-i-do-a-manual-tool-change example
[13:17:43] * _abc_ cheers for archivist
[13:19:08] <archivist> a hight only probe makes no sense to me because of the cutter shapes I use on the mill
[13:19:36] <_abc_> I can see that but you still need a Z probe 1st. The others can be added later...
[13:19:46] <PetefromTn_> what does that have to do with anything?
[13:20:09] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: douchebaggery
[13:20:11] <zeeshan|2> is what
[13:20:12] <zeeshan|2> :)
[13:20:19] <archivist> eg I want the centre line and OD of the cutter http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[13:21:07] <archivist> I have a wingnut on Z no I dont want a height probe
[13:21:08] <PetefromTn_> you do all of that in your programming no?
[13:21:37] <archivist> I do an optical "touch off"
[13:21:46] <zeeshan|2> archivist: how well does that work?
[13:21:50] <zeeshan|2> your optical touch off
[13:21:51] <zeeshan|2> :D
[13:21:52] <PetefromTn_> I use a top and bottom 45 degree cutter for the picatinny rails and I only use a Z height setting
[13:22:04] <archivist> put a pointer in the rotary
[13:23:33] <archivist> so as usual "no one size fits all" as people often wish for and think "would be easy and obvious"
[13:24:38] * PetefromTn_ thinks I have to mount my damn strap clamp set to the side of the mills enclosure....Hmmmm
[13:27:58] <archivist> I mounted my clamp set on the side of an old rack I use as a toolbox trolley
[13:30:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah so did I but it's a pain in the ass because it is never where I need it LOL
[13:30:54] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: wear it like a toolbelt, then you'll always have it handy =)
[13:31:29] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: ...and get a workout at the same time =)
[13:31:38] <archivist> have a set by every machine, of course you will need an extra bit from one of the other sets
[13:31:51] <Jymmm> archivist++
[13:32:48] <_abc_> is it possible to define a M1xx subr using #!/usr/bin/env wish as interp?
[13:33:49] <PetefromTn_> Jymmm thanks for the tip...Rolleyes
[13:34:33] <archivist> _abc_, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#_calling_files
[13:35:31] <_abc_> My manual says M1xx subroutines can be defined as scripts in bash or python or presumably anything else which will be exec'd in the system's shell
[13:35:53] <_abc_> File named M1xx accordingly, saved in the right place, starts as any script with shebang interpreter spec
[13:38:39] <_abc_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/structure.html see 5.6.
[13:40:33] <_abc_> also I see 8.2. as a way to experiment in MDI >;)
[13:42:03] <furrywolf> sure enough, the guy who wants the tools is flaking.
[13:43:30] <PetefromTn_> Had a lady flake on me for a microwave I was selling on craigslist yesterday....
[13:43:40] <_abc_> is there a way to specify where the Z0 is when doing TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP=1 ? Seems it goes to 0, bad idea, I need it at a height other than 0
[13:50:01] <skunkworks> you can specify a location...
[13:50:35] <_abc_> I know. I am trying to figure out the easyest way to enter the new tool height after touching it off manually while in tool change mode
[13:51:21] <_abc_> looks like a bad bad mixture of o-file and m-file, worse than the workaround script posted in the forum, so the forum entry wins.
[13:51:55] <_abc_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#mcode:m100-m199 meanwhile, about what I wrote above, fyi
[13:54:40] <_abc_> What is not clear is, whether http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#_calling_files 6. can be used to call a M1xx file as above
[13:55:03] <_abc_> Does not look like it. Lacking Turing completeness. /me snorts
[14:03:32] <enleth> That got me thinking, how much of a priority for linuxcnc is MDI-type work?
[14:04:28] <PetefromTn_> any of you guys ever bought that commercial speedwall paint at home depot? LOL its a lot cheaper than the other stuff but is it shitty?
[14:04:35] <PetefromTn_> I know not CNC related LOL
[14:05:02] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking of building a wall painting robot ;)
[14:05:31] <ganzuul> hm
[14:06:14] <ganzuul> Maybe a robot which works well with shitty/ cheap paint?
[14:06:28] <ganzuul> Might corner some market.
[14:06:30] <PetefromTn_> yes exactly
[14:07:32] <ganzuul> How much automation?
[14:07:50] <PetefromTn_> focus man....the paint...
[14:09:06] <_abc_> Speedwall rhymes with speed tape somehow >;)
[14:09:12] <_abc_> Also with Aluminum paint...
[14:10:18] <_abc_> Come on, sticking a 5dof robot arm on a segway with a large can of paint and a small Honda etc generator is not beyond imagination. Then, you fill it up with rainbow paint, and let it loose on main street. Muahaha. Just kidding. If you do this, post pics.
[14:11:01] <ganzuul> lol
[14:11:25] <_abc_> I forgot to mention the cheap paint gun (electric) and the rpi to control it all
[14:11:45] <ganzuul> An inkjet?
[14:11:53] <_abc_> No, paint gun.
[14:12:11] <ganzuul> No, inkjet. >:|
[14:12:28] <_abc_> http://www.harborfreight.com/51-gph-electric-paint-spray-gun-60446.html ganzuul cheaper than inkjet
[14:13:11] <_abc_> Also, optimal. I don't know if such a cheap device will last 2 hours so the 1 gallon can of paint will be used optimally
[14:14:46] <furrywolf> just built an air buffer tank... I was sick of my 3/4" impact running at half speed on the long hose I have here... screwed a 1/4" male plug and a 3/8" female coupler to the top of a 5gal air tank. :)
[14:14:47] <ganzuul> Nice user review. xD
[14:14:58] <PetefromTn_> okay I have a robot to do the painting (grins at wife) now I just need the paint LOL
[14:16:18] <ganzuul> I hear in the olden days wall painters used to become alcoholics, because of the fumes.
[14:16:50] <furrywolf> riiiight... "the fumes"... :P
[14:17:11] <furrywolf> I've never seen alcohol-based paint, anyway... only shellac.
[14:17:27] <_abc_> furrywolf: re: air tank buffer: truck tyres are great.
[14:17:42] <_abc_> And iirc more than 5gal
[14:17:49] <furrywolf> _abc_: truck tires don't have a 3/8" air coupler bolted right to them with 1/2" pipe.
[14:17:55] <_abc_> true
[14:17:55] <furrywolf> the idea is to be able to get air out fast.
[14:18:05] <_abc_> you get to make that part ;)
[14:18:28] * furrywolf made that part by using a 5gal air tank that has a 1/2" bung on it. :P
[14:19:36] <malcom2073> Heh I used to use a 5 gallon air tank as a buffer for a nail gun, let me run it off a tiny pancake compressor
[14:19:41] <furrywolf> this way I have a little bit of surge capacity on the end of the long hose, with a short, thick hose to the impact wrench.
[14:19:42] <malcom2073> do 15-20 nails, then take a 5 minute break :-D
[14:20:10] <furrywolf> sure you weren't just lazy? :P
[14:20:23] <malcom2073> I'm not lazy, I'm energy efficient
[14:21:36] <_abc_> http://phys.org/news/2015-10-fusion-reactors-economically-viable-experts.html I wish they will become feasible SOON
[14:23:14] <furrywolf> fusion power is always 50 years away. :P
[14:24:04] <_abc_> Eternally ;)
[14:24:37] <_abc_> Yes, well, remember when people trying to make semiconductor devices with no vacuum in them were held for lunatics? And about flying? And about...
[14:24:38] <ganzuul> Unicorns do exist.
[14:24:44] <furrywolf> I suspect this would improve if substantially more money were thrown at it, but people don't want to spend money on something that promises to lower prices.
[14:25:38] <furrywolf> cheap electricity results in a lot of oil company executives having to only have one mansion and one yacht, which is entirely unacceptable.
[14:30:05] <ganzuul> Governments do.
[14:30:45] <furrywolf> I don't know about your government, but our government is very good friends with the oil industry.
[14:31:41] <ganzuul> Not always.
[14:31:55] <roycroft> that's not true at all, furrywolf
[14:32:10] <roycroft> cheap electricity does not impact the wealth of the oil barons at all
[14:32:18] <roycroft> they all have more wealth then they could possibly need
[14:32:48] <roycroft> when you're talking about folks that rich it's not about money any more
[14:32:56] <roycroft> it's about power, and i'm not talking about electrical power
[14:34:46] <enleth> furrywolf: it's the exacy opposite in fact. The oil sheiks are investing obscene amounts of money in alternative energy sources. Why? Because they know the time will come for that and when it does, they want to control production just like they do now, but with oil.
[14:34:50] <enleth> They are not stupid.
[14:34:53] <furrywolf> cheap electricity, other than just the fall in use of fossil fuels for power generator, will also lead to substantial development and uptake of electric vehicles, recycling of plastics for re-use in place of extracted petrochemicals, etc.
[14:34:55] <ganzuul> What sort of power like that is a scarce resource?
[14:36:05] <enleth> furrywolf: I don't know about local US executives, but those Arab guys who sit on oil reserves are well aware that income diversification is a must
[14:36:18] <ganzuul> furrywolf: This politics is what Tesla's battery factory in Texas or wherever is about.
[14:36:56] <furrywolf> all sorts of industries will have to change... when power is cheap enough, artifical light will become an economical way to grow plants other than pot... all railroad lines will be electrified... many products currently obtained by mining will become economical to recycle... etc, etc.
[14:37:22] <enleth> furrywolf: in fact, if anyone achieves a breakthrough with viable fusion power, I'd bet they did that on Arab money.
[14:37:55] * Wolf_Mill doesnt care how it comes about...
[14:38:16] <Wolf_Mill> I just want to spend less then I am now on my electric bill lol
[14:38:29] <renesis> i pay $0 for electricity
[14:38:31] <renesis> \o/
[14:38:37] * ganzuul sends signal for unreasoning Animal King to dispose of Wolf_Mill's govt
[14:39:28] <ganzuul> (Portal 2 ref)
[14:40:32] <fenn> a lot of good fusion research was done with US navy money
[14:40:36] <furrywolf> and, of course, with cheap energy, the whole military being used to protect our interests in oilfields thing stops, and we spend a lot of money there...
[14:41:16] <fenn> the congressionally funded ITER stuff is just pork barrel politics at this point
[14:41:26] <fenn> even the scientists doing the research admit it
[14:41:45] <fenn> hi-tech job factory
[14:42:50] <fenn> meanwhile the actual promising research languishes because if it were to show progress the ITER/tokamak guys would lose their funding
[14:42:51] <furrywolf> japan seemed to be being the most useful last I looked.
[14:43:03] <fenn> nah same thing there
[14:43:18] <fenn> ITER is international yo
[14:43:37] <furrywolf> japan's tests have gotten actual sustained burns. :)
[14:43:46] <enleth> Anyway, the whole going for power thing is funny. Suppose you get to control a lot of things, a whole country maybe, you're in mid 50s or something, you do and have all the crap money can buy for maybe 20 years and then what? You die. Most of those filthy rich people don't even have that many children, some have none.
[14:44:21] <furrywolf> enleth: don't ask me to explain human nature. I gave up. *fluffs wolfy tail*
[14:47:55] <fenn> "it was once proposed to use hydrogen bombs as a source of power by detonating them in underground caverns and then generating electricity from the heat produced"
[14:48:10] <fenn> what could possibly go wrong
[14:48:13] <enleth> I do see the point of going full Ghenghis Khan-style at the world, the guy was one of the most successful human beings in the whole history of this race as far as natural selection goes, having over a thousand children all over the continent. But the rich of our times? Pathetic.
[14:48:34] <pcw_home> fenn: project Orion also
[14:49:25] <roycroft> ghengis khan was not a christian, so he believed that sex was ok, even if it's not with boys
[14:52:26] <furrywolf> good thing I'm also not a christian. I don't like boys.
[14:53:38] <roycroft> i like boys, but not that way
[14:56:10] <roycroft> but what i'd really like is a decent lathe right now
[15:00:51] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Yeah, it'll be like thug life machinist bling bling
[15:01:16] <furrywolf> time to give up on the guy wanting the tools.
[15:01:18] <furrywolf> fucking flakes.
[15:02:41] <furrywolf> if you tell someone you're going to be at their house at a certain time, SHOW THE FUCK UP. or if something comes up and you can't, call or email!
[15:02:57] <fenn> what if he died
[15:03:11] <Jymmm> no excuse fenn
[15:03:27] <ganzuul_> Then you haunt.
[15:03:29] <furrywolf> this his estate has to deal with his debts, including showing up and paying for tools.
[15:04:20] <ganzuul_> Paying up front FTW!
[15:04:44] <JT-Shop> another gibberish warning from wheezy "upgrading make require removal or installation of new packages"
[15:05:04] <JT-Shop> do you want to perform a safe upgrade
[15:05:20] <JT-Shop> I don't know
[15:05:21] <ganzuul_> Well that warning sounds dangerous.
[15:05:38] <Jymmm> yeah for backups
[15:05:43] <Jymmm> yay*
[15:05:43] <JT-Shop> I get it all the time with wheezy
[15:05:45] <furrywolf> wheezy is a distribution. warnings come from programs.
[15:06:16] <Jymmm> Heh https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b0/84/68/b08468aa131a86a57387741f932a3c8d.jpg
[15:06:49] <roycroft> i use virtualization almost exclusively these days
[15:06:58] <fenn> can't virtualize realtime
[15:07:10] <roycroft> it's really nice, because when it comes time to upgrade something like that i just clone the vm and do the upgrade on the clonse first
[15:07:21] <Jymmm> fenn: but you can image it =)
[15:07:25] <roycroft> yes, you can image it
[15:07:28] * furrywolf uses no virtualization
[15:07:58] <roycroft> my work life has gotten 10x harder since i started using virtual machines, but it's also become 50x easier
[15:08:04] <roycroft> so it's a net win
[15:08:46] <ganzuul_> Speaking of, my $15 OrangePi raspi clone seems to work OK. Some sort of HDMI/DVI translation bug, but otherwise fine. Would in a guitar stomp box very snugly if holes were cut for connectors.
[15:08:48] <roycroft> and i do think that some real time apps can be run in a virtualized environment
[15:09:10] <Jymmm> roycroft: How is it 10x harder?
[15:09:20] <roycroft> but regardless, if it's a real time but not always up app it's easy to make a vm image of the machine
[15:09:39] <roycroft> having to manage hypervisors and do snapshots and the like adds a lot of complication
[15:09:48] <roycroft> especially since we use vmware, and their management tools require windows
[15:09:53] <roycroft> and they don't work well in a windows vm
[15:09:58] <Jymmm> roycroft: oh come on, snapshots can be automated
[15:10:06] <roycroft> so i end up having to use things like netbooks to do some of the vm management
[15:10:14] <Jymmm> roycroft: fucking IE requirement
[15:10:16] <roycroft> although i'm learning how to do much of it from the command line
[15:10:30] <Jymmm> roycroft: You know what we used to do?
[15:10:32] <roycroft> i use *nix and macos
[15:10:46] <roycroft> when i need to run a windows app i do it in a vm
[15:10:59] <roycroft> except vmware's, which require dedicated machines
[15:11:03] <Jymmm> roycroft: We setup one machine as a M$ vm, then everyone RDP'ed into it to do the managemnet aspects, worked out great
[15:11:51] <roycroft> but to be honest, the main problem i have is that, although my boss strongly encourages virtualization, he refuses to do development on sandbox vms
[15:12:01] <roycroft> he insists on always working on production machines
[15:12:18] <Jymmm> you're boss is a dumbass, but I think you already knew that =)
[15:12:28] <roycroft> if he says he wants to play with something new i say "give me 10 minutes and i'll clone a vm for you to use as a sandbox"
[15:12:42] <roycroft> he'll say "ok", and then then, 10 minutes later, he's already fucked up the production machine
[15:12:49] <malcom2073> Heh
[15:12:54] <roycroft> pardon my language
[15:13:00] <malcom2073> Job security at least
[15:13:06] <Jymmm> roycroft: cron the cloning =)
[15:13:06] <roycroft> except i get blamed for it
[15:13:10] <roycroft> and told to fix it on my own time
[15:13:14] <malcom2073> Ah, time to find a new employer then :P
[15:13:21] <roycroft> yeah, well i'm too old for that
[15:13:30] <roycroft> i've been applying for jobs for years
[15:13:48] <roycroft> nobody bites - when they see my resume they realise that i'm not a young kid so i don't ever get a call back
[15:13:55] <roycroft> oh well
[15:14:15] <roycroft> this is just a demonstration that one cannot fix social problems with technology
[15:14:17] <Jymmm> roycroft: take off everything but the last 8 years
[15:14:43] <roycroft> as far as the job history part that might be ok
[15:14:46] <ganzuul_> rsync for backups.
[15:14:56] <roycroft> but the education department would still give my age away
[15:15:08] <roycroft> rsync is not suitable for backups, generally
[15:15:13] <roycroft> but i use it for some things
[15:15:15] <Jymmm> sure it is
[15:15:19] <roycroft> no it's not
[15:15:29] <roycroft> it can't easily do incrementals and keep multiple copies
[15:15:30] <ganzuul_> roycroft: Not suitable?
[15:15:36] <Jymmm> wanna bet?
[15:15:36] <roycroft> i use amanda for backups
[15:15:37] <ganzuul_> oh
[15:15:40] <roycroft> and it works great
[15:16:11] <Jymmm> roycroft: incremental rsync baby http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/
[15:16:12] <roycroft> my debian machines all have xfs filesystems, because xfs has a proper dump(8) utility
[15:16:27] <roycroft> and the bsd machines have always had dump(8)
[15:16:33] <ganzuul_> I have done incrementals with rsync.
[15:16:39] <PetefromTn_> I know I have asked this before but
[15:16:39] <roycroft> i did not say it can't be done
[15:16:45] <roycroft> i said it can't be done easily
[15:16:48] <roycroft> and i stand by that
[15:16:57] <PetefromTn_> I want to remove the options in a drop down box
[15:16:58] <roycroft> i have a very robust backup utility that works great
[15:17:00] <Jymmm> sit your ass down grandpa!
[15:17:03] <Jymmm> ;)
[15:17:06] <PetefromTn_> in ubunut
[15:17:09] <PetefromTn_> ubuntu
[15:17:19] <roycroft> however, i do back up users' inboxes with rsync, and keep 7 days worth of that
[15:17:29] <roycroft> just because it's easier to restore an inbox that way
[15:17:33] <PetefromTn_> I have my G code files stores in a file on the desktop in ubuntu
[15:17:36] <roycroft> and users delete important emails all the time
[15:18:00] <PetefromTn_> and when I click open I have to select the drop down menu and it's a little PIA..
[15:18:16] <ganzuul_> rsync -u does incremental
[15:18:19] <PetefromTn_> is there a way to remove the drop down box options for screening the tupe
[15:18:21] <PetefromTn_> type
[15:18:35] <roycroft> it's not the same as a proper backup utility
[15:18:53] <roycroft> and i don't know why some of you are trying to convince me to do it your way when i've already stated that i have something that works very well
[15:19:01] <roycroft> i'm not asking for recommendations on backup software
[15:19:21] <ganzuul_> We can't have that.
[15:19:26] <ganzuul_> You're doing it wrong.
[15:19:30] <malcom2073> lol
[15:19:31] <ganzuul_> Vermind that it works.
[15:19:35] <ganzuul_> ~nevermind
[15:19:42] <malcom2073> roycroft: Welcome to the internet :P
[15:20:07] * roycroft notes that there is almost always more than one "correct" way to do something
[15:20:27] <malcom2073> For varying definitions of correct
[15:20:31] * roycroft notes also that one size rarely fits all
[15:20:56] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:21:57] <roycroft> for them that use rsync to do backups: if what you do works for you then i'm happy for you
[15:22:07] <roycroft> now we can move on
[15:22:10] <malcom2073> ganzuul_: Raid is a backup!
[15:22:15] * malcom2073 runs fast after pulling that gernade pin
[15:22:25] * roycroft refuses to even go there, because the liquor store is closed on sundays
[15:23:12] <ganzuul_> malcom2073: I was about to say, there is an infinite number of ways to do it wrong, but that seemed mean-spirited. However, you...
[15:23:57] <ganzuul_> :p
[15:24:00] <malcom2073> :)
[15:25:44] <PetefromTn_> rather how do you remove the files of type filters?
[15:26:02] <roycroft> my boss likes to do cp file file.something.random,usually,in.another.undocumented.directory when he messes with production machines
[15:26:07] <roycroft> that's his form of backup
[15:26:23] <ganzuul_> PetefromTn_: I'd imagine it involves a recompile from source...
[15:26:46] <PetefromTn_> good lord why?
[15:26:56] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: That type of thing is normally hardcoded, You talking about in axis?
[15:27:06] <ganzuul_> ^
[15:27:07] <PetefromTn_> no not in linuxCNC at all..
[15:27:09] <malcom2073> Because changing the type of files an application accepts is not something you typically do runtime?
[15:27:11] <PetefromTn_> in ubuntu
[15:27:19] <malcom2073> In which application?
[15:27:22] <malcom2073> It's a per-application setting
[15:27:29] <malcom2073> Or rather, it's done on a per application basis
[15:27:37] <ganzuul_> Can you give your files the wrong type identifier>
[15:27:39] <ganzuul_> ?
[15:27:41] <PetefromTn_> as I said I have a desktop file with my g code files in it..
[15:27:53] <PetefromTn_> when I open it in linuxCNC it has a files of type filter on it
[15:28:06] <PetefromTn_> I want to remove that filter or at least remove some of the drop down options.
[15:28:09] <fenn> you probably mean "when i open it in AXIS"
[15:28:14] <malcom2073> A desktop file, or folder?
[15:28:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:28:57] <ganzuul_> PetefromTn_: Can you rename your files so they show up by default?
[15:30:07] <fenn> the best way is probably to edit src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py and add whatever extension you use to the line that ends with tuple([".ngc"])
[15:30:09] <PetefromTn_> don't want to rename
[15:30:25] <ganzuul_> PetefromTn_: Running from the cure.
[15:30:59] <fenn> actually it's probably /usr/bin/axis.py
[15:31:03] <ganzuul_> Sometimes a dirty hack and a hard drink is the best way to get on with your life.
[15:31:21] <malcom2073> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py;hb=HEAD
[15:31:24] <ganzuul_> Oh, fenn's suggestion would be easier.
[15:31:27] <malcom2073> Inside: def open_file(*event):
[15:31:37] <malcom2073> all_extensions = tuple([".ngc"]) change it to all_extensions = tuple([".gcode"])
[15:31:39] <malcom2073> or whatever your default is
[15:33:23] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/e4l0Yh6
[15:33:28] <PetefromTn_> okay you see that picture
[15:33:30] <fenn> or maybe swap ("All files"), "*" and ("All machinable files"), all_extensions
[15:33:40] <PetefromTn_> there is my OPEN file browser
[15:33:52] <PetefromTn_> it has a drop down menu with a bunch of different options in it.
[15:33:53] <malcom2073> Yep PetefromTn_, the fix that fenn suggested should do what you want
[15:34:04] <PetefromTn_> It drives me nuckin' futz...
[15:34:55] <PetefromTn_> I would not care if the entire files of type option was removed completely
[15:35:14] <fenn> so the "All machinable files" filter doesn't show .NC files?
[15:36:03] <PetefromTn_> honestly when I click open in linuxCNC axis it opens the browser with all machinable files selected.
[15:36:27] <PetefromTn_> but yeah it does not show all my files which requires me to click it and drop down every time I open a program
[15:36:39] <PetefromTn_> also If there is a way to make it open in fullscreen that would be glorious...
[15:37:06] <fenn> i can't figure out how to do that
[15:37:13] <PetefromTn_> if it just defaulted to all files it would be graet
[15:37:22] <fenn> fix it man, you have the powah
[15:37:45] <PetefromTn_> my pal connor did that for me when we first built the machine but now it is an annoyance unfortunately since I have SO MANY files on the damn machine now
[15:38:10] <PetefromTn_> man I don't know jack about how to do this kind of thing...
[15:38:15] <JT-Shop> Axis open full screen?
[15:38:20] <PetefromTn_> or I would have already fixed it myself
[15:38:22] <fenn> JT-Shop: the file picker is too small
[15:38:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah axis opens full screen
[15:38:37] <Wolf_Mill> well, i think the line for what file extension is at line 1927
[15:38:41] <PetefromTn_> but the file-open option browser opens small
[15:39:33] <PetefromTn_> basically every single time I have to find and open a file I have to grab and expand the window so I can see the whole thing and then select the drop down menu to select all files...
[15:39:37] <PetefromTn_> its maddening
[15:39:59] <Tom_itx> you want to view more file extensions?
[15:40:25] <PetefromTn_> I want to be able to see everything in the folder without filters at all
[15:40:50] <PetefromTn_> and not have to expand it manually each time
[15:41:20] <PetefromTn_> wish it was like windows where you just click maximize for that one..
[15:41:26] <Tom_itx> [FILTER]
[15:41:26] <Tom_itx> PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .txt XYZ Post Processor
[15:41:29] <Tom_itx> in the ini
[15:41:35] <Tom_itx> put .* or something
[15:41:42] <fenn> cat
[15:42:00] <PetefromTn_> do I have to shut down linuxCNC to do that
[15:42:04] <Tom_itx> i use .txt on all my gcode files :D
[15:42:06] <JT-Shop> forum to PetefromTn_ rescue http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/21-axis/320-faq
[15:42:20] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, no but it won't take effect until you do
[15:42:52] <PetefromTn_> okay lemme try that hang on..
[15:43:23] <Tom_itx> why would you want more than one extension in your gcode directory anyway?
[15:43:30] <fenn> that doesn't change the file picker size
[15:43:32] <Wolf_Mill> what needs to be changed to add *.nc to the extensions?
[15:43:45] <PetefromTn_> how do you unselect the lines in .ini again
[15:43:49] <Tom_itx> well i didn't pay attention to what he was bitchin about
[15:44:03] <PetefromTn_> whose bitchin'
[15:44:07] <PetefromTn_> who's
[15:44:18] <JT-Shop> #
[15:44:23] <PetefromTn_> is it hashtag?
[15:44:31] <PetefromTn_> pound
[15:44:40] <Wolf_Mill> comment
[15:44:52] <fenn> tic-tac-toe
[15:45:00] <JT-Shop> the thing above the 3 key
[15:45:33] <Wolf_Mill> so All machinable files, I want to add *.nc to that, how/what do I do?
[15:45:33] <Tom_itx> + shift
[15:45:53] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[15:46:03] <PetefromTn_> just hashtagged all of the filter items
[15:46:10] <PetefromTn_> and restarted linuxCNC
[15:46:29] <PetefromTn_> now when I go file-open it goes to all machinable files
[15:46:30] <JT-Shop> Wolf_Mill, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini-config.html#_display_section
[15:46:31] <Tom_itx> damn i hate diggin a splinter out a piece at a time..
[15:48:10] <PetefromTn_> okay commenting out all the filter options in the ini file did not work
[15:48:47] <fenn> i think you can just add "PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .NC" to the [FILTER] section of your ini
[15:49:00] <Tom_itx> that was my suggestion as well
[15:49:51] <fenn> surprised that isn't default
[15:50:11] <PetefromTn_> should it be capitalized
[15:50:24] <fenn> yes that's why you're having problems
[15:50:29] <Tom_itx> that's up to you
[15:50:47] <PetefromTn_> what is why I am having problems
[15:50:56] <fenn> your files end in .NC instead of .nc
[15:50:56] <Tom_itx> caps or no caps
[15:51:14] * Tom_itx gives PetefromTn_ a cap to wear
[15:51:24] <PetefromTn_> can I just add both upper and lower case options
[15:51:31] <Tom_itx> fine by me
[15:52:26] <JT-Shop> you can add anything you want
[15:53:15] <PetefromTn_> jeez now it is erroring out linuxCNC
[15:53:32] <Tom_itx> syntax must be right
[15:54:02] <JT-Shop> and the error is?
[15:54:12] <ganzuul_> Might be a regex would work in the raw.
[15:54:28] <ganzuul_> [Aa][Bb] etc
[15:54:33] <fenn> shh
[15:54:55] <furrywolf> grrrr. is there any product china can not screw up? I bought a 2-pack of Sylvania-brand 1157 light bulbs for my subaru, a month ago. Now, ~200 miles later, one failed. the filament detached from the piece it was spot-welded to.
[15:55:30] <ganzuul_> Sylvania used to be a well-regarded brand in semiconductors.
[15:55:31] <malcom2073> Yep, but they won't sell it to you
[15:55:32] <malcom2073> for sure
[15:56:07] <fenn> products intended for furrywolf are intercepted by the chinese intelligence agency and substituted with defective ones
[15:56:24] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/uFRzrGb
[15:57:20] <fenn> PetefromTn_: move it up two lines
[15:57:23] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: yeah 3 pins had to be inverted
[15:57:29] <furrywolf> I guess I need to look for US-made light bulbs too now.
[15:57:30] <PetefromTn_> move what up 2 lines
[15:57:39] <furrywolf> the packaging doesn't even say where it's made - only the bulb itself says china.
[15:57:47] <fenn> put "PROGRAM EXTENSION = .NC" on line 35
[15:58:37] <PetefromTn_> still errors out
[15:59:08] <cradek> NC = cat
[15:59:14] <cradek> line 42
[15:59:14] <ganzuul_> Can you start the program from the console and see if it prints a more verbose error?
[15:59:33] <cradek> of course I'm guessing what the error is
[15:59:51] <PetefromTn_> line 42 is blank
[16:00:06] <fenn> add "NC = cat" to line 42
[16:00:12] <ganzuul_> He means you should add a description of what type those are
[16:00:18] <Deejay> gn8
[16:00:24] <PetefromTn_> .NC ir just NC
[16:00:27] * ganzuul_ tucks Deejay in
[16:01:22] <XXCoder> line 42 should be "the life, the universe, and everything else"
[16:01:31] <PetefromTn_> still errors out..
[16:01:59] <PetefromTn_> would the debug file information help?
[16:02:16] <JT-Shop> pastebin the lines you added
[16:04:20] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/Ysvpy5u
[16:04:59] <JT-Shop> can you pastebin the actual text not a screenshot
[16:05:09] <PetefromTn_> machine is not online
[16:05:27] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[16:07:53] <fenn> oh whoops
[16:08:32] <fenn> change "PROGRAM EXTENSION = .NC" to "PROGRAM EXTENSION = .NC something"
[16:09:44] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/euzzW2FP
[16:10:02] <PetefromTn_> .NC something?
[16:10:13] <fenn> where "something" can be whatever you want
[16:10:29] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand
[16:10:42] <PetefromTn_> its just a .nc file extension
[16:10:45] <fenn> it needs another word to use as a description in the drop down
[16:10:49] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, you added this > PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .NC
[16:10:52] <PetefromTn_> its not .NC something whatever
[16:11:39] <furrywolf> then .NC .NC
[16:12:18] <fenn> it's hard to come up with arbitrary words sometimes
[16:12:23] <PetefromTn_> okay I added NUMERICAL CODE G CODE FILE....
[16:12:33] <PetefromTn_> and linuxCNC loaded okay
[16:12:41] <ganzuul_> \o/
[16:12:46] <fenn> yay. does it show your files without any fuss now?
[16:12:52] <PetefromTn_> best news is that when I click File-open
[16:13:00] <PetefromTn_> it opens showing all my files now
[16:13:03] <PetefromTn_> so thank you.
[16:13:15] <PetefromTn_> now how can I get it to open that browser full screen?
[16:13:23] <fenn> not going to happen
[16:13:33] <PetefromTn_> why not?
[16:13:46] <fenn> uhh.. because, bug jepler
[16:14:16] <PetefromTn_> that part is the more annoying part honestly for me
[16:14:20] <fenn> i mean, write a polite email to the emc-devel mailing list
[16:14:34] <PetefromTn_> I have to drag the damn browser edges to make it big enough to see all the files
[16:14:53] <furrywolf> so... should I buy 10ft of 1/2" air hose for $19.25 on ebay, or 25ft for $29.99 at harbor fright?
[16:14:54] <PetefromTn_> is there a quick way to maximize it?
[16:14:59] <ganzuul_> alt+space, X doesn't work?
[16:15:39] <JT-Shop> maximize is not allowed for some reason
[16:15:53] <PetefromTn_> maximize is greyed out
[16:15:58] <PetefromTn_> SHit
[16:16:03] <ganzuul_> well poop
[16:16:18] * JT-Shop really hates "do you really want to close linuxcnc"
[16:16:53] <PetefromTn_> if you maximize it manually and close it and reopen the browser it opens fullscreen
[16:17:05] <PetefromTn_> but if you close linuxCNC and reopen it goes back to small format
[16:17:09] <PetefromTn_> ANNOYING
[16:17:45] <ganzuul_> Maybe a parameter for the default window size?
[16:19:20] <furrywolf> I guess I'll go with the harbor fright hose... it'll come with ends, which saves me ten bucks of brass fittings...
[16:20:47] <PetefromTn_> Oh well at least I don't have to click that damn drop down menu anymore heh
[16:21:06] <PetefromTn_> can't understand why you can't select maximize for that browser window tho...
[16:21:16] <fenn> the technical reason i say "not gonna happen" is because axis calls root_window.tk.call("tk_getOpenFile", ... but you can't pass any parameters like window size to tk_getOpenFile without doing surgery on the tcl window library
[16:22:00] <fenn> unless there is some wizardry i'm not aware of
[16:24:10] <PetefromTn_> hell there is LOTS of wizardry I am not aware of
[16:26:44] <Tom_itx> there is some setting they set so it would default otherwise
[16:26:48] <enleth> PetefromTn_: switch WM to kwin, it has an easily accessible switch that basically says "fuck all toolkit-set window option for tgis type of window, I know better"
[16:27:25] <enleth> *options
[16:28:19] <enleth> It works wonders on stupid legacy toolkit crap.
[16:29:26] <fenn> this might be one way to go about solving the issue: http://computer-programming-forum.com/56-python/804cd80732af4f3d.htm
[16:29:28] <PetefromTn_> enleth I have no idea what you are talking about you will have to be more specific LOL
[16:33:10] <enleth> PetefromTn_: the X11 window manager. No idea what the dedault is on linuxcnc, but any debian derivative can install kwin, KDE's window manager
[16:33:25] <PetefromTn_> when you tell me stuff like that kinda think of your 5 year old and backtrack from there.... ;)
[16:33:49] <furrywolf> if you install any kde crap, you install about a gig of useless crap, even if you just want to use one part of it.
[16:34:16] <enleth> kwin has a "fuck it, I know better" button for everything
[16:34:40] <enleth> furrywolf: bullshit, unless debian packagers screwed it up royally
[16:36:12] <PetefromTn_> Ok whats WM?
[16:36:22] <furrywolf> it depends on kde-runtime, and all the crap that entails.
[16:36:59] <fenn> a window manager (WM) draws the borders around your windows and the task bar at the edge of the screen etc
[16:37:57] <furrywolf> and kde core, kde utils, plasma, d-bus crap, compositor stuff, kde base, perl, kde's media crap, etc, etc, etc...
[16:38:05] <JT-Shop> enleth, do you use the kde plasma desktop?
[16:38:10] <furrywolf> heh, even pulseaudio apparantly.
[16:38:21] <furrywolf> just in case your box works, we can fix it!
[16:38:36] <fenn> is pulseaudio bad?
[16:38:39] <furrywolf> yes.
[16:38:57] <fenn> i can't seem to get enough gain with just alsa
[16:39:20] <furrywolf> that means your sound is mostly working. pulseaudio is very good at not working at all.
[16:39:35] <furrywolf> let's add another layer between your software and your hardware! that's written by an idiot! and doesn't work!
[16:39:56] <fenn> chinese hackers
[16:40:00] <ganzuul_> If your distoro has pulseaudio, don't attempt to change it. Audio in Linux is downright arcane.
[16:40:19] <furrywolf> ganzuul_: if you stay away from kde's crap, you don't tend to get pulseaudio.
[16:40:39] <enleth> furrywolf: I think I was able to install kwin 5 with less than 100mb of deps and get it to work with no KDE runtime processes on jessie
[16:41:29] <XXCoder> okkkay found a web video player that displays mute icon right on screen when enabled
[16:41:38] <XXCoder> sure, make video more useful lol
[16:41:45] <furrywolf> avoid anything Poettering touched.
[16:41:46] <enleth> JT-Shop: I do, but on gentoo, so I just installed the useful parts
[16:42:00] <XXCoder> that include water and air furrywolf
[16:42:30] <furrywolf> if he's touched it, sure. :P
[16:42:37] <XXCoder> lol
[16:42:44] <PetefromTn_> okay Picatinny rails program is LIVE baby LOL
[16:42:52] <furrywolf> the way his software kills boxes, his air probably kills people...
[16:43:50] <furrywolf> even Linus agrees he's an asshole. :P
[16:44:06] <enleth> furrywolf: I agree on that one but the fact that KDE works with PA and so on is the fault of distros that accept Poetterimg's dick up their collective asses, starting with Red Hat
[16:44:14] <ganzuul_> Linus likes Qt though.
[16:44:19] <PetefromTn_> like linus from the peanuts?
[16:44:40] <enleth> KDE simply followed the bulk of their users
[16:44:52] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: linus is one who started linux
[16:44:53] <XXCoder> kernel that is
[16:45:28] <fenn> groovy man https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Interior_of_W7-X_stellarator.jpg
[16:46:04] <fenn> not enough room to swing a straightedge around
[16:46:26] <furrywolf> looks expensive. :P
[16:47:59] <furrywolf> "projected total cost of 1.06 billion Euro"
[16:48:11] <fenn> a trifle
[16:48:23] <XXCoder> low budget
[16:48:29] <Jymmm> Hey... I saw one of those at the scrap yard for $2000
[16:48:51] <Jymmm> but the meth heads grabbed all the copper
[16:49:56] <PetefromTn_> WTF is that?
[16:49:58] <furrywolf> https://www.ipp.mpg.de/2535674/zoom.jpg
[16:50:12] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: a prototype fusion reactor
[16:50:31] <XXCoder> secure connection failed
[16:50:32] <PetefromTn_> you gotta be kiddin me...
[16:50:44] <zeeshan|2> that looks cool :D
[16:50:46] <PetefromTn_> we're gonna blow ourselves to kingdom come....
[16:50:46] <fenn> don't worry, it doesn't actually work
[16:50:55] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: yeah 3 pins had to be inverted
[16:50:59] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Man Cave for that industrial/space age look
[16:51:03] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: no, fusion is safe. it's fission, what we currently use, that's dangerous.
[16:51:04] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: cool :D
[16:51:11] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:51:21] <zeeshan|2> man
[16:51:25] <zeeshan|2> im machining the last 5 pieces
[16:51:35] <zeeshan|2> so glad this nonsense is over
[16:51:41] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[16:51:46] <PetefromTn_> you love that shit..
[16:51:46] <Jymmm> furrywolf: you got a cheap "castable refactory cement" recipe/source?
[16:51:54] <zeeshan|2> yea man!
[16:51:58] <zeeshan|2> im looking forward to getting paid
[16:52:04] <zeeshan|2> i can pay half my tuition debt out from this money
[16:52:06] <PetefromTn_> I'll bet you are
[16:52:07] <furrywolf> fusion has no toxic waste issues, and if anything goes wrong it harmlessly shuts down essentially instantly. unlike fission which will keep going on its own, fusion takes so much work to keep going that the slightest malfunction causes it to instantly stop.
[16:52:12] <XXCoder> whats up with one part that didnt have enough umm plastic whatever uit uis
[16:52:20] <zeeshan|2> i dont want to machine this pos for another 3 months!!
[16:52:20] <furrywolf> last five lumps?
[16:52:24] <zeeshan|2> ya
[16:52:32] <furrywolf> Jymmm: nope
[16:52:42] <Jymmm> furrywolf: k thanks
[16:52:52] <PetefromTn_> hey man if the money is there its all good...warm and fuzzy like
[16:53:03] <zeeshan|2> yessir
[16:53:11] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: with what he's paying, I'd machine them as long as he keeps wanting them!
[16:53:20] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yea thats the plan
[16:53:26] <zeeshan|2> still bitter for not getting paid for some stuff :P
[16:53:43] <furrywolf> now where's my consultation fee? :P
[16:53:57] <zeeshan|2> i already sent you 10 zimbawian dollars
[16:54:04] <zeeshan|2> =]
[16:54:23] <zeeshan|2> why are those fusion reactors
[16:54:26] <zeeshan|2> lump shaped
[16:54:44] <ganzuul_> Escaping neutrons can irradiate stuff unwantedly in fusion too, but there are fusion processes involving boron which mitigate the need for heavy shielding and eventual hot waste.
[16:54:45] <XXCoder> shaping magnetic fields
[16:54:47] <Jymmm> Stupid screw broke off holding the air pipes in the firebox - who the fucking dumbass uses 1/2" philips sheet metal screws in a firebox?! *sigh*
[16:55:13] <furrywolf> Jymmm: the same dumbass who uses fiberboard in a firebox.
[16:55:47] <furrywolf> go on craigslist and pick up a used solid steel stove. :P
[16:55:57] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Well, that's an EPA thing. or Kommiafornia(C)ARB thing
[16:56:13] <PetefromTn_> I bought one of those nice aluminum extenda poles for painting
[16:56:20] <PetefromTn_> and my wife went to use it today
[16:56:45] <PetefromTn_> she started to put the roller head on there and it freaking snapped off the threaded bit
[16:56:49] <XXCoder> and it was another one of those things that work great as long as you dont use it?
[16:56:49] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It's solid welded steel, just need a thick ass plate for the baffle I guess
[16:56:54] <PetefromTn_> and she is not exactly lou ferigno...
[16:57:00] <XXCoder> aced the prediction.
[16:57:17] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: where was it manufactured?
[16:57:25] <XXCoder> china im sure
[16:57:35] <XXCoder> or secretly other countries
[16:57:49] <PetefromTn_> it says hecho in china
[16:58:01] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Green wife? You maried an orion slave girl? http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Feb1wioCA_8/hqdefault.jpg
[16:58:15] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: recycle it and go buy a US-made one.
[16:58:40] <Jymmm> furrywolf: why, so it can break before it gets home?
[16:58:51] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: metal tip threads
[16:59:03] <renesis> made in USA = mad corners cut to stay competitive
[16:59:20] <PetefromTn_> http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200512/ent-093-girls-dance-5/320x240.jpg
[16:59:40] <PetefromTn_> now THAT"S an Orion slave girl
[16:59:48] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Your wife loks pissed in that pic
[17:00:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah but she's still sexy as hell at the same time LOL
[17:00:33] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: do you knwo if all power window motors
[17:00:37] <zeeshan|2> have a built in load s/w
[17:00:46] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure they do
[17:01:02] * zeeshan|2 is looking at a wiring diagram and i don't see an external load switch
[17:01:12] <furrywolf> load switch?
[17:01:17] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I prefer orion slave girl in the making... http://images.lifeandstylemag.com/uploads/images/file/19430/maitland-ward-2.jpg?fit=crop&w=680
[17:01:17] <zeeshan|2> yea
[17:01:22] <zeeshan|2> so the window doesn't blow itself up
[17:01:29] <furrywolf> I've never seen any part I'd describe as a "load switch".
[17:01:34] <PetefromTn_> ooh nice
[17:01:36] <zeeshan|2> on the dodge intreprid
[17:01:41] <zeeshan|2> i remember there was an external load switch
[17:01:50] <furrywolf> the mechanism has stops. it hits the stops. the motor stalls. :)
[17:02:36] <furrywolf> generally the whole power window system is on a self-resetting circuit breaker so if you hold the button after it stops, nothing melts.
[17:03:10] <zeeshan|2> yes but i think that breaker
[17:03:15] <zeeshan|2> is inside the motor module
[17:03:22] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it external on some cars
[17:03:26] <furrywolf> not on any one I've worked on.
[17:03:39] <furrywolf> doesn't mean there aren't some, but I haven't seen it.
[17:03:55] <enleth> Not sure if I consider that a brilliant idea to reduce cost and complexity, or a hideous hack
[17:04:07] <enleth> probably both.
[17:04:14] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/iR95YGS.png
[17:04:16] <renesis> car electronics are all like that
[17:04:19] <zeeshan|2> no external load switch
[17:04:29] <zeeshan|2> it must be inside the motor
[17:04:34] <zeeshan|2> thats why its called a "power window regulator"
[17:04:58] <zeeshan|2> rather than power window regulator
[17:04:58] <zeeshan|2> er
[17:04:59] <fenn> regulator just means the thing that moves the window up and down
[17:05:01] <zeeshan|2> power window motor
[17:05:16] <furrywolf> ... the term "window regulator" predates power windows, and includes the entire mechanism that regulates the motion of the glass.
[17:05:23] <fenn> manual window crank/gear racks are just called window regulators
[17:05:26] <enleth> renesis: I know. That's why I must somehow resist the urge to rip all wiring out of the first car I buy and do it from scratch, my way
[17:06:19] <renesis> and the wiring diagrams are a fucking bastard hybrid of block diagrams and circuit schematics
[17:06:19] <enleth> On the other hand, I'm seriously considering an old Soviet 4x4, so that may not be a bad thing to do
[17:06:29] <zeeshan|2> i dunno what you guys are talkin about mates
[17:06:33] <renesis> yeah prob for the best on that one
[17:06:51] <furrywolf> does JB-05 actually have a fuse in it, or a circuit breaker?
[17:06:53] <fenn> zeeshan|2: why would it have a resistor or whatever inside the motor at all? for what purpose?
[17:07:00] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/B4PSokX.png
[17:07:04] <zeeshan|2> here is another completely different car
[17:07:08] <zeeshan|2> note how it says motor
[17:07:21] <zeeshan|2> for this car
[17:07:25] <zeeshan|2> the ic detects overload
[17:07:28] <zeeshan|2> and trips stuff
[17:07:42] <zeeshan|2> in this car the load s/w is external
[17:08:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: current sense
[17:08:08] <furrywolf> according to that diagram, the IC only controls automatic opening or closing.
[17:08:29] <furrywolf> note the passenger window does not run through the IC, while the auto switch does. :P
[17:08:43] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[17:08:54] <zeeshan|2> so i guess its inside the power window motor module
[17:08:56] <zeeshan|2> the load sense
[17:09:03] <furrywolf> check your fuse block and see if the 30A is actually a fuse or a circuit breaker.
[17:09:12] <zeeshan|2> there is no circuit breakers in this car
[17:09:13] <zeeshan|2> its fuses
[17:09:28] <zeeshan|2> blah im just gonna power it up and see what happens
[17:09:32] <fenn> there's probably a thermal fuse in the motor and that's it
[17:09:34] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Check the wipers, should be circuit breaker
[17:09:41] <zeeshan|2> no Jymmm
[17:09:54] <Jymmm> what car?
[17:09:57] <furrywolf> some cars hide them, for example Ford likes hiding a circuit breaker inside the windshield wiper switch.
[17:10:09] <furrywolf> with no documentation thereof
[17:10:25] <zeeshan|2> ill just slowly bring it up :)
[17:10:28] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I've never seen that. Sometimes underthe hood,
[17:10:29] <furrywolf> my Jeep has a circuit breaker inside the light switch. :)
[17:10:42] <Jymmm> weird
[17:11:02] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: what car/year?
[17:11:17] <Barfious_Computa> It's my understanding that pathpilot is designed to run with a mesa card.
[17:11:20] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm: its okay i got it :P
[17:11:21] <zeeshan|2> i test it
[17:11:31] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: thats not what I asked
[17:11:41] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, what are some good restaurants in your area?
[17:11:43] <malcom2073> Barfious_Computa: That's what Tormach says, yes
[17:12:00] <Barfious_Computa> im running a 7i76e card, but because of the ethernet part, i had to use a particular version of linuxcnc and the real time kernel
[17:12:22] <fenn> pathpilot is mostly just a GUI
[17:12:38] <Barfious_Computa> im wondering if there is any chance I can get pathpilot working with my card
[17:12:39] <Jymmm> Will SS screw survice a firebox?
[17:12:46] <PetefromTn_> lots of good ones...
[17:12:49] <Jymmm> survive
[17:12:56] <PetefromTn_> what kind of food are we talking about?
[17:13:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: bland, totally bland
[17:13:17] <Barfious_Computa> i bet that guy that works for mesa that hangs out here would know
[17:13:19] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: even ketchup is too spicy
[17:13:27] <PetefromTn_> yeesh
[17:13:32] <PetefromTn_> you're SOL
[17:13:47] <fenn> Barfious_Computa: it will probably need some tweaking and general knowledge of python to get your version of linuxcnc and their GUI to play together
[17:13:59] <fenn> Barfious_Computa: afaik nobody has done this yet
[17:14:10] <PetefromTn_> someone NEEDs to do it tho ;)
[17:14:17] * fenn shrugs
[17:14:35] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Isn;t everythng in your neck of the woods fried?
[17:14:38] <fenn> it would be better if people just fixed gmoccapy imho
[17:14:47] <PetefromTn_> no and no
[17:14:48] <Jymmm> fenn: GIT ER DONE!
[17:14:54] <JT-Shop> well I like most foods
[17:15:12] <Barfious_Computa> i like things fried. Especially with the bacon.
[17:15:15] <PetefromTn_> there is a good seafood restaurant in Gatlinburgh we went to recently
[17:15:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: googling suggests rx7's just blow the fuse randomly.
[17:15:25] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of good places in Knoxvegas
[17:15:26] <furrywolf> about the quality I'd expect from one. :P
[17:15:26] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: What are common dishes ?
[17:15:26] <JT-Shop> what's the name of it
[17:15:53] <Barfious_Computa> but yeah.. ultimately what I want is a better linuxcnc interface.. Every time I bring it up people tell me to code it myself... lol
[17:16:04] <CaptHindsight> what's all the hubub about Pathpilot?
[17:16:20] <fenn> you could hire a programmer, but that takes real money...
[17:16:26] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It looks more like MAch =)
[17:16:32] <PetefromTn_> here in maryville we have your typical stuff texas roadhouse, things like that
[17:16:39] <Barfious_Computa> it looks better than mach
[17:16:40] <CaptHindsight> what's of perceived interest besides the trajectory planner?
[17:16:47] <PetefromTn_> looks WAY better than Mach
[17:17:06] <Barfious_Computa> i just want something that looks better
[17:17:06] <fenn> i don't see why mach is the thing being compared to?
[17:17:12] <PetefromTn_> mostly the conversational setup pages I think
[17:17:12] <CaptHindsight> what did I miss?
[17:17:13] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: the looks of it
[17:17:19] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: 2.7 has a better trajectory planner anyway
[17:17:22] <furrywolf> and 2.7 is out. :P
[17:17:54] <Connor> Barfious_Computa: Gmoccapy is a nice one.
[17:18:39] <CaptHindsight> unless it looks like a giant radar or sonar console I don't want it!
[17:18:39] <malcom2073> Heh, "Don't like it? Code it yourself" <- Open source mantra
[17:19:16] <furrywolf> bbl, off to the hardware store to grab some pop rivets and other small things.
[17:19:18] <Barfious_Computa> yeah that mantra is usually followed by ignoring basic questions about how one might begin the process of doing it yourself
[17:19:22] <malcom2073> Yep
[17:19:44] * Jymmm tosses a 1952 air traffic controller console at CaptHindsight
[17:20:17] * fenn tosses a SAGE console, wait, no.
[17:20:26] <XXCoder> whoa
[17:20:28] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop http://www.crawdaddysgatlinburg.com/
[17:20:32] <Jymmm> fenn: too late, it's mine now!
[17:20:33] <Barfious_Computa> shit brb just realised i left the beers in the car!
[17:20:37] <XXCoder> google merged into alphabet
[17:20:44] <CaptHindsight> does Pathpilot only have 5 giant pre-school looking icons that do everything?
[17:20:54] <malcom2073> Hey, if they do everything, why not?
[17:21:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: is one of them "BEER ME" ???
[17:21:19] <Connor> So, how do we feel about PathPilot and do we think it'll be opened up for us to use / tinker with ?
[17:21:20] <Jymmm> (or all of them)
[17:21:41] <malcom2073> Connor: It's open for anyone to use/tinker with if they purchase a recovery CD
[17:21:55] <CaptHindsight> "beer me" "mill shit" "home shit" etc
[17:22:18] <Connor> malcom2073: Yea, didn't think they sold it to anyone who didn't have a Tormach machine.
[17:22:20] <fenn> the legality of redistribution is questionable and probably tormach's lawyers don't even know what they are doing, based on my reading of the EULA
[17:22:31] <JT-Shop> oh oysters, the wife loves them
[17:22:37] <malcom2073> Connor: iirc it's like $40
[17:22:37] <Connor> I have a copy of it.. just wondering...
[17:22:38] <malcom2073> the CD
[17:22:58] <PetefromTn_> the place is a bit dumpy but they make some good food..
[17:23:12] <PetefromTn_> Oh you gotta check out the pancake pantry in Gatlinburgh too
[17:23:18] <PetefromTn_> that place is really nice
[17:23:48] <PetefromTn_> I thought it was like $10 or somehting
[17:23:52] <malcom2073> afaik, nobody *really* knows what they're doing when it comes to open source licensing heh
[17:24:02] <JT-Shop> thanks pete
[17:24:43] <fenn> there's a lot of hedging, like "you may not do X, except where allowed by the GPL"
[17:24:53] <CaptHindsight> didn't some here already get the pathpilot CD and are just looking for a host for it?
[17:25:00] <fenn> but it's really unclear exactly WHAT is under GPL vs some other license
[17:25:07] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: I think Contract_Pilot1 did
[17:25:25] <JT-Shop> would you take 321 to gatlinburg?
[17:25:34] <Connor> Looks like it's $30.00 now.
[17:25:35] <Connor> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=35246
[17:26:26] <CaptHindsight> but it comes with a deluxe faux leatherette case
[17:26:39] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Contract_Pilots had a copy of it.. hosted it for a bit and made a torrent.
[17:26:41] <fenn> but it's that special shade of grey
[17:26:57] <malcom2073> fenn: The shade that millionare lawyers are made of
[17:27:06] <CaptHindsight> so problem solved
[17:27:13] <CaptHindsight> what do we gripe about next?
[17:27:24] <PetefromTn_> how is problem solved?
[17:27:27] <fenn> but it's not the exact shade of grey i want
[17:27:28] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Is it LEGAL.
[17:27:35] <malcom2073> Connor: Talk to a lawyer about that
[17:27:42] <malcom2073> Legal advice is probably not best found on IRC :P
[17:27:47] <PetefromTn_> BRB gotta eat some delicious food my wife made here LOL
[17:28:54] <CaptHindsight> Connor: whats the license on it? I thought all the interesting stuff was GPL
[17:29:15] <Connor> I dunno. I've not installed it.
[17:29:29] <fenn> some of the python files say "all rights reserved" and there is an onerous EULA upon install
[17:29:30] <Connor> But, I'm assuming the non LinuxCNC stuff is closed source.
[17:29:46] <fenn> there's also a separate "Image EULA" which covers the artwork
[17:30:05] <Barfious_Computa> Connor: how is your g0704 doing?
[17:30:49] <Connor> Barfious_Computa: No progress. In fact.. my shop got loaded up with more crap from my office.. Planning on cleaning up the shop some time soon and then see about getting the mill back up and running.
[17:31:50] <Barfious_Computa> I got the 7i76e going thanks to Malcom and the Mesa guy and others
[17:32:44] <Connor> I switched to 5i25 + 7i76 combo from ParPort
[17:32:49] <Barfious_Computa> lately ive been working on fixturing for a part, getting close to done with that so I can make a part over and over.
[17:33:07] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_11_21_14_02.jpg
[17:34:43] <Barfious_Computa> enclosure looks well laid out
[17:35:39] <Connor> To tight. I should have move out of the box and behind the touch screen and use a 7i76e or something.
[17:37:37] <Barfious_Computa> mine has a bit more space but, I've essentially built a box as a first prototype
[17:38:04] <Connor> I need to build a enclosure for the touch screen & keyboard.
[17:38:38] <Barfious_Computa> i used mdf as the baseplate, and milled standoffs from remelted hdpe , built an aluminum extrusion frame
[17:38:52] <Connor> I kinda like the looks of this.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mach3-4-EMC2-CNC-Touch-Screen-Control-Panel-15WLP-by-MACH-MATE-/171925691155?hash=item280791db13
[17:39:34] <Barfious_Computa> Im going to mill faceplates for it, but I plan on redoing the mdf in metal. I just wanted to get it all on a board and up and away on the wall
[17:39:59] <Barfious_Computa> so basically later I will disassemble and use the mdf as a template for the final
[17:41:19] <Barfious_Computa> yes that is similar to the shape I am going for , except without the angled plate for the keyboard. I've been thinking about maybe having the keyboard on a hinge so I can angle it
[17:41:44] <Barfious_Computa> either that or having it flat, and setting up the whole panel on an angle
[17:42:19] <Barfious_Computa> like on a stand with rollers and a tether to the machine
[17:42:50] <Barfious_Computa> so i can later roll it up next to the enclosure , and put it away when not needed
[17:42:52] <Barfious_Computa> idk.
[17:43:38] <fenn> mounted on a robot arm that follows you around
[17:43:53] <Barfious_Computa> lol
[17:45:12] <Barfious_Computa> mistake #1 teaching computers how to staulk
[17:46:29] <Barfious_Computa> if I were in a larger space a boom arm does sound interesting
[18:06:59] <PetefromTn_> DId you ever notice that when you don't have any money there are deals EVERYWHERE but when you finally get some cash they all just freaking vanish LOL?
[18:18:33] <furrywolf> yes
[18:28:54] <MattyMatt> same thing happens with space. there was a bridgeport on ebay a mile from here at a good price
[18:29:16] <MattyMatt> long bed and all
[18:29:38] <malcom2073> Heh
[18:31:02] <MattyMatt> on ebay of course, your bids when you can afford them make what you're after more expensive than it appears when you're not in the race
[18:31:27] <furrywolf> "Soylent, which produces liquid food for techies who hate chewing, has stopped shipping its gloop after some of it was contaminated with mold." don't we have someone here who eats that crap?
[18:31:50] <MattyMatt> sounds like stilton
[18:35:07] <MattyMatt> Barfious_Computa, surely the smaller the space, the easier it is to make a boom arm. I'm a thinking about extending this little cheap VESA one so it stretches to the middle of the room, just for a little camera & light
[18:35:30] <MattyMatt> all overhead
[18:46:07] <Jymmmm> furrywolf: eats mold?
[18:46:38] <Jymmm> Can SS screws be used in a wood stove firebox?
[18:46:48] <furrywolf> "NASA confirmed that the engines of Soyuz TMA-15M – one of two Soyuz spacecraft currently docked at the ISS – unexpectedly fired at 10:27am Central time on Tuesday, pushing the station somewhat out of its expected position." need more safeties.
[18:50:20] <malcom2073> Someone accidently hit shift
[18:51:35] <malcom2073> I've done that, tore my KSP space station apart
[18:52:03] <Jymmm> malcom2073: NO NO NO YOU SILLY GOOBER!!! http://techchunks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/to-delete-or-not-delete.jpg
[18:52:14] <malcom2073> Hehe
[18:52:19] <os1r1s> furrywolf: I consume the powdered soylent
[18:52:35] <Jymmm> IT'S PEOPLE!!!!
[18:52:46] <os1r1s> Jymmm: Yumm :P
[18:53:02] <malcom2073> Inferior people, so thus, you are now inferior!
[18:53:33] <os1r1s> haha
[18:56:39] <zeeshan|2> yay window went up:D
[19:03:30] <MattyMatt> furrywolf, the extra soyuz are the safeties. they just need to attach them in opposite pairs
[19:03:36] <furrywolf> lol
[19:04:41] <MattyMatt> I still thing they should have left a shuttle in orbit, loosely coupled to the ISS
[19:05:14] <MattyMatt> ready for one emergency landing or one deep space suicide mission
[19:05:26] <MattyMatt> ya know, aliens and shit
[19:05:31] <furrywolf> could the shuttle remain for long periods? I thought it relied on fuel cells and would drain the tanks in some period of time...
[19:06:05] <MattyMatt> yeah and the monopropellants etc, but I'm sure they coulda come up with a mothballing plan
[19:06:21] <Jymmm> not enough moth balls?
[19:07:55] <MattyMatt> it could be rigged for long term orbit for the last launch. active cooling on the tanks etc
[19:09:21] * MattyMatt checks sparkfun for hydrazine sensor breakout for arduino
[19:09:45] <furrywolf> yay! natural selection! :P
[19:10:29] <MattyMatt> arduinos improve/impede mating success?
[19:10:48] <MattyMatt> a bold hypothesis
[19:11:00] <furrywolf> handling hydrazine, and devices using it, with an arduino impedes mating success, unless necrophilia catches on...
[19:11:50] <MattyMatt> oh it's in orbit, and if the soyuz all go mad, the fleeing crew won't complain about a little chemical rash
[19:12:41] <MattyMatt> is that one mad soyuz is no longer fit for deorbit?
[19:14:49] <MattyMatt> I'm assuming mad and not a stuck valve
[19:14:57] * MattyMatt reads the story
[19:15:42] * furrywolf is not sure what "mad" is supposed to mean
[19:17:50] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf:
[19:17:59] <zeeshan|2> giemme a mcguiver suggestion plz
[19:18:04] <zeeshan|2> other than cinder blocks
[19:18:06] <zeeshan|2> and wood
[19:18:14] <zeeshan|2> i need to pull the wheels off my car that is going to the scrappers
[19:18:21] <zeeshan|2> what would you rest it on? :D
[19:18:24] <furrywolf> brb, someone here
[19:18:27] <zeeshan|2> damn it!
[19:18:59] <Tom_itx> flip it on it's top
[19:19:03] <Tom_itx> silly
[19:19:20] <furrywolf> back, sounds like it's for the neighbor, not me
[19:19:26] <MattyMatt> mad = computer error jeopardising crew safety
[19:19:27] <furrywolf> I use wood.
[19:19:37] <zeeshan|2> is there any way to drop it on the ground
[19:19:40] <zeeshan|2> i just need my jack out
[19:19:43] <zeeshan|2> i dont care how it sits
[19:19:44] <furrywolf> cinder blocks are dangerous, and should not be used.
[19:19:45] <Tom_itx> why not?
[19:19:51] <furrywolf> nor should mayonaise buckets.
[19:19:55] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:20:04] <MattyMatt> 6x2 planks
[19:20:09] <zeeshan|2> i dont get any big ass planks
[19:20:13] <zeeshan|2> i might have some 2x4
[19:20:22] <zeeshan|2> i was hoping there was something else most people have
[19:20:28] <zeeshan|2> or actuallyt avoiding anything to beg with
[19:20:32] <zeeshan|2> just drop it on the ground
[19:20:33] <MattyMatt> make a jenga tower if 2x4, or it'll wobble
[19:20:46] <zeeshan|2> but i know i wont be able to get the jack out
[19:20:55] <Tom_itx> high center on the curb
[19:20:56] <furrywolf> hrmm, for some reason I can't find the mayojack picture.
[19:21:38] <zeeshan|2> bah ill try to find more wood
[19:22:13] <Tom_itx> you gettin rid of that junker in your garage?
[19:22:27] <MattyMatt> make crates. get sawsall. enjoy revenge on car
[19:22:52] <Tom_itx> old bent rim would work
[19:23:00] <MattyMatt> I wish I'd kept the alloys off the last one I scrapped
[19:23:15] <zeeshan|2> the wheels on the car im scrapping at sentimental to me
[19:23:59] <MattyMatt> mine woulda fetched as much as the scrap, on ebay
[19:24:27] <MattyMatt> scrappers here want it rolling tho, dunno if they'd have taken it with no wheels
[19:26:47] <zeeshan|2> they just pull it up on the trailer
[19:26:49] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it done
[19:26:51] <zeeshan|2> last time i did this
[19:26:57] <zeeshan|2> i had it sitting on massive amount of wood
[19:27:07] <zeeshan|2> and they slid is flat bed about 2 feet under the car
[19:27:11] <zeeshan|2> and dragged it up
[19:27:50] <MattyMatt> fair enough. I guess they'll pull them out of ditches upside down like that and stuff too
[19:28:35] <furrywolf> for sliding non-rolling things, they have plastic sliders (like the ones for moving furniture, but bigger) they can stick under it.
[19:29:16] <MattyMatt> putting 4 car wheels on a workbench would be a laugh. waste of drawer space tho
[19:30:25] <furrywolf> grrrr. and archive.org has the index pages on the site, but not the image pages or images.
[19:31:27] <furrywolf> http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Mayojack.htm yay, he has two of the photos.
[19:32:24] <furrywolf> that sucks the old safety photo of the week site is gone, and archive.org didn't bother saving it.
[19:33:05] <MattyMatt> horizontal feafspring on the beetle, never noticed that before
[19:33:31] <MattyMatt> leaf^
[19:33:43] <MattyMatt> stange typo
[19:34:00] * MattyMatt gives up tiping
[19:43:03] <furrywolf> http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Documents/Photo/551-600/597.pdf want to bet it IS running? :)
[19:51:23] <furrywolf> http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Documents/Photo/551-600/573.pdf
[19:56:22] <zeeshan|2> well
[19:56:26] <zeeshan|2> there goes that plan of keeping the wheels lol
[19:56:35] <zeeshan|2> the lug nuts are seized on there good
[19:56:40] <zeeshan|2> and its too late to be impacting outside
[19:56:52] <zeeshan|2> worse thing you can do to a car: leave it sitting.
[19:57:16] <furrywolf> bigger piece of pipe.
[19:57:18] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, tighten em until they snap off
[19:57:23] <zeeshan|2> rofl Tom_itx
[19:57:28] <zeeshan|2> its not worth it
[19:57:32] <Tom_itx> you shouldn't care about the lugs
[19:57:45] <zeeshan|2> i was using a 3ft cheater
[19:57:55] <Tom_itx> you needed an 8' cheater
[19:57:56] <zeeshan|2> i can tell the ujoint will snap
[19:57:56] <PetefromTn_> you shouldn't care about the neighbors either ;)
[19:58:01] <zeeshan|2> i need to go to a 3/4"
[19:58:04] <zeeshan|2> which i dont has
[19:58:07] <Tom_itx> i keep one behind the garage for such occasions
[19:58:13] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: haha
[19:58:38] <Tom_itx> yeah the cops watch my neighbors for me
[19:58:42] <Wolf_Mill> I just use my big torque wrench...
[19:59:01] <zeeshan|2> i hope ure kidding
[19:59:01] <zeeshan|2> :P
[19:59:05] <Wolf_Mill> nope
[19:59:11] <zeeshan|2> thats not good for a torque wrench
[19:59:15] <zeeshan|2> good way to lose calibration
[19:59:19] <Wolf_Mill> low scal on it is 500ft-lbs
[19:59:24] <zeeshan|2> !
[19:59:45] <zeeshan|2> im so stressed about tomorrow
[19:59:50] <zeeshan|2> i really thjink 25000lb
[19:59:51] <Wolf_Mill> its 3/4" drive 4.5' long
[19:59:54] <zeeshan|2> is going to sink my asphalt driveway
[20:00:01] <zeeshan|2> last time ihad a 25000lb truck on there
[20:00:08] <zeeshan|2> the asphalt moved like water
[20:00:20] <zeeshan|2> but miraculsly it went back up
[20:00:21] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[20:00:22] <furrywolf> why do you need a u-joint for removing lugs?
[20:00:24] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, lay plywood down
[20:00:45] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i dont have anything big enough
[20:00:48] <zeeshan|2> to bring ply sheets home
[20:00:51] <zeeshan|2> i always have to get em cut down
[20:01:07] <Tom_itx> so scatter the sawdust around then
[20:01:08] <furrywolf> get a real vehicle? :)
[20:01:26] <Tom_itx> it won't be quite as effective...
[20:01:28] <furrywolf> and... why do you need a u-joint? lol
[20:01:38] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: breaker bar has that
[20:01:44] <zeeshan|2> forget the wheels
[20:01:46] <zeeshan|2> its not worth it
[20:01:58] <zeeshan|2> the scrappers will give me $150 for it
[20:02:02] <zeeshan|2> ill donate that 150 to a charity
[20:02:04] <Tom_itx> but they're so sentimental
[20:02:16] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: they're gonna collect dust in my basement
[20:02:23] <zeeshan|2> which really isn't good
[20:02:30] <furrywolf> http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/ProppedUp.htm
[20:02:31] <Tom_itx> until you need some wheels to prop your next one on
[20:02:31] <zeeshan|2> i rather take that money and give it to charity
[20:02:42] <jdh> you can give it to me.
[20:02:43] <zeeshan|2> i have 10 sets of wheels maan
[20:02:46] <zeeshan|2> i dont need more :P
[20:02:48] <furrywolf> or.... spend the money on lathe accessories.
[20:02:55] <zeeshan|2> LOL furry
[20:03:06] <PetefromTn_> what the hell are you talking about?
[20:03:17] <jdh> pete: he's sending me $150
[20:03:22] <furrywolf> if your breaker bar can't get a lug off, you need a bigger breaker bar. :P
[20:03:29] <furrywolf> one that doesn't say "china" on it.
[20:03:35] <PetefromTn_> heh
[20:03:39] <zeeshan|2> i have a longer one
[20:03:57] <zeeshan|2> i just needed it to be a bit harder
[20:04:02] <zeeshan|2> to make an excuse to leave em on there
[20:04:03] <furrywolf> a 1/2" drive breaker bar should be stronger than a stud, unless it's crap.
[20:04:29] <furrywolf> (a car-sized stud, obviously... heavy equipment and lorries not included)
[20:05:20] <furrywolf> the hardest wheel I've ever taken off was the lug bolts (not nuts, bolts) on a BMW that had been curbed hard enough to break the rim.
[20:05:29] <furrywolf> the bolts were fucked up, badly. I had to get my 1" impact on them.
[20:08:18] <zeeshan|2> this will come off w/ a breaker bar
[20:08:23] <zeeshan|2> dont wanna make the effort :P
[20:08:53] <furrywolf> http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Forklift.htm now there's clever. :)
[20:27:36] <zeeshan|2> i need to invest in some 3/4" tooling
[20:27:54] <zeeshan|2> you rarely have to use that size for cars
[20:27:59] <zeeshan|2> unless something is up :P
[20:28:12] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i replicated that bug
[20:28:23] <zeeshan|2> g10 l2 p1 x y z
[20:28:23] <PetefromTn_> I only have one breaker bar that is 3/4 drive
[20:28:26] <zeeshan|2> then load up another program.
[20:28:30] <zeeshan|2> axis doesn't update :P
[20:28:39] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: i dont even have t hat
[20:28:45] <PetefromTn_> only use it in extreme circumstances LOL
[20:28:45] <zeeshan|2> i have a ton of tooling from 1/4 to 1/2
[20:28:58] <zeeshan|2> but the only thing that comes to 3/4 is a 1/2 to 3/4 adapter
[20:28:58] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:29:00] <PetefromTn_> usually I just use a 1/2 inch with a big ass pipe on it or something
[20:30:14] <PetefromTn_> my oldest daughter bought my younger kids a hermit crab and a glass enclosure....better than the fish we had that died I guess LOL
[20:31:12] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:31:20] <zeeshan|2> are they happy
[20:31:25] <zeeshan|2> messing with it?
[20:32:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is kinda neato I guess
[20:32:32] <PetefromTn_> its quieter than my dog ;)
[20:33:20] <PetefromTn_> funny I just received two emails from the two ebay sellers that I bought my new facemill inserts from saying that the items have shipped... that's a neat trick on a sunday...
[20:34:34] <Tom_itx> from china?
[20:34:46] <PetefromTn_> no they are supposed to be here
[20:35:14] <Tom_itx> maybe that's what happens when they print the shipper label
[20:35:28] <PetefromTn_> sure
[20:47:22] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i asked about the full screen thing in devel
[20:47:43] <Tom_itx> you can read the reply
[20:47:53] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah okay
[22:52:56] <zeeshan|2> its celebration time!!!!!!!!1
[22:53:05] <zeeshan|2> last 20 done
[22:53:49] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/CqEKy
[22:58:44] <[cube]> looks great dude!
[23:02:23] <zeeshan|2> thanks!
[23:03:43] <Tom_itx> colorful batch there
[23:04:13] <zeeshan|2> they all look like that pretty much
[23:04:14] <Tom_itx> has he sold any yet?
[23:04:22] <zeeshan|2> yea hes sold 15 so far
[23:04:41] <Tom_itx> better gear up for more..
[23:04:41] <zeeshan|2> after the treatment he gives em
[23:04:45] <zeeshan|2> it really turns out well
[23:04:52] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i told him, im not making any for another 2 months
[23:04:56] <zeeshan|2> hes fine with it
[23:05:05] <zeeshan|2> it'll just make his product more rarer and desirable
[23:05:19] <zeeshan|2> i want to work on my car for the next month
[23:05:23] <zeeshan|2> and then the month after the lathe
[23:05:46] <Tom_itx> yeah you gotta get your lathe up an cnc-ified
[23:06:03] <zeeshan|2> dude im really worried about tomorrow
[23:06:05] <zeeshan|2> i hope it fits.
[23:06:11] <zeeshan|2> not sure what im gonna do if it doesnt make it thru the garage
[23:06:19] <Tom_itx> if not, i can make room here
[23:06:23] <zeeshan|2> haha
[23:22:11] <Tom_itx> Wolf_, http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/CE-certification-Manufacture-of-500W-800W_60292050184.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.1.5WZJ3j&s=p
[23:27:32] <furrywolf> shiny. I just saw the brightest meteor I've ever seen, by a couple orders of magnitude. came from high to the southeast from my position, vanished about 20 degrees over the horizon to the southwest. substantially brighter than sirius or the moon, although much smaller in size than the moon obviously...
[23:28:35] <Tom_itx> let's hope so..
[23:39:17] <Praesmeodymium> I've heard meteorite before if it touches down that shits worth money, people love rocks from space
[23:39:43] <zeeshan|2> !
[23:41:11] <furrywolf> southwest from here is the pacific ocean... and it was way out there... :P
[23:42:14] <zeeshan|2> http://thaihungcnc.com/images/Photo/IMG_0777%20(FILEminimizer).JPG
[23:42:15] <zeeshan|2> bottom right
[23:42:24] <zeeshan|2> does anyone else see a pocket for a fork to go under?
[23:42:27] <zeeshan|2> i think i see one
[23:43:29] <furrywolf> a fork, or a prybar, or a place to hold a strap from sliding, dunno...
[23:43:42] <zeeshan|2> cause this guy will need to pick up the machine
[23:43:44] <zeeshan|2> from the right side
[23:43:46] <zeeshan|2> to get it in my garage
[23:43:50] <zeeshan|2> it would be the easiest
[23:44:02] <zeeshan|2> or he can bring it in from the front
[23:44:03] <furrywolf> so how long is it going to take to linuxcnc that thing? :P
[23:44:05] <zeeshan|2> and then rotate
[23:44:10] <zeeshan|2> a long time
[23:44:11] <zeeshan|2> prolly all winter
[23:44:14] <zeeshan|2> like the mill
[23:44:21] <zeeshan|2> i think it took about 4 months w/ the mill
[23:45:39] <furrywolf> I wish I had a place to put toys like that and money to buy toys like that and time to work on and learn to use toys like that. heh.
[23:45:57] <zeeshan|2> you think i got the place?
[23:45:58] <furrywolf> you're not done with the mill yet. still doesn't change tools on its own.
[23:46:00] <zeeshan|2> i am making it fit!
[23:46:05] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: it never came w/ an atc.
[23:46:11] <zeeshan|2> so as far as im concerned, the conversion is done :P
[23:46:24] <furrywolf> yes, I think you have plenty of room. there's an ugly, slow car in the middle of the garage taking up tons of space. :P
[23:46:41] <zeeshan|2> ..coming from a person who has a non turbo subaru
[23:46:42] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:46:57] * furrywolf does have 4x4. :P
[23:47:03] <zeeshan|2> the car is the reason why i have the machines
[23:47:05] <zeeshan|2> fyi
[23:47:11] <zeeshan|2> if it wasn't for the car, the machines would be gone
[23:47:48] <zeeshan|2> same w/ the tig welder etc
[23:48:10] <zeeshan|2> i just made a deal with my wifey
[23:48:10] <furrywolf> lol
[23:48:14] <zeeshan|2> that all my shop stuff will be self funded
[23:48:18] <zeeshan|2> about 5 years ago
[23:48:22] <furrywolf> so you're buying a $$$$$ machine to make $$$$ of parts for the car? :P
[23:48:30] <zeeshan|2> pretty much
[23:48:32] <zeeshan|2> plus its a hobby right
[23:48:49] <zeeshan|2> one day i'd like to be able to produce every single part on the car
[23:48:53] <zeeshan|2> that is my ultimate goal
[23:49:20] <zeeshan|2> its only taken 10 years... so far
[23:49:21] <zeeshan|2> :(
[23:49:50] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/Xo8ZLgN.gifv
[23:49:51] <zeeshan|2> wow
[23:49:53] <furrywolf> big parts require casting, while many body parts require stamping.
[23:50:07] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: cast will be replaced with billet parts
[23:50:18] <zeeshan|2> and body parts are all made using sheet metal tools
[23:50:20] <zeeshan|2> not stamps
[23:50:26] <zeeshan|2> thats for production
[23:50:33] <furrywolf> billet is very expensive, and you might need to reinvent some geometry like blind internal passages.
[23:50:42] <zeeshan|2> drill hole
[23:50:42] <zeeshan|2> plug
[23:50:43] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:51:00] <Jymmm> Thats what she said.
[23:51:30] <zeeshan|2> the things ifind hard
[23:51:32] <zeeshan|2> are crankshaft
[23:51:37] <zeeshan|2> and hypoid gears
[23:51:41] <furrywolf> how do you plan to make, say, frame rails? they're usually stamped sheetmetal. so are many designs of control arms, crossmembers, etc. never mind 2-way curves on every body sheetmetal panel... if you want something you can build without stamping, it's going to be an early jeep or landrover.
[23:51:58] <zeeshan|2> frame rails are easier than they appear
[23:52:04] <zeeshan|2> you can use a C channel
[23:52:27] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: look @ english wheel
[23:52:28] <furrywolf> frame rails are harder than they appear. they usually taper, have bends in both directions, etc.
[23:52:40] <furrywolf> english wheels are an artform, and slow as fuck.
[23:52:41] <zeeshan|2> i replaced frame rails on a 240sx
[23:52:43] <zeeshan|2> easy!
[23:52:43] <zeeshan|2> :P
[23:52:50] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: im building one offs
[23:52:52] <zeeshan|2> not production.
[23:53:01] <furrywolf> and like all artforms, don't tend to produce reproducable results. like left and right.
[23:53:08] <zeeshan|2> it makes zero sense to go get a 250 ton press
[23:53:14] <zeeshan|2> and spend 100,000 on one die.
[23:53:17] <zeeshan|2> to make yourself 1 hood.
[23:54:14] <zeeshan|2> it'd be easier to make a wood mold
[23:54:16] <furrywolf> I've thought about how to design a universal sheetmetal former, but haven't come up with any workable ideas.
[23:54:18] <zeeshan|2> and make cfr parts
[23:54:19] <zeeshan|2> cf
[23:54:27] <furrywolf> hydroforming is easier than stamping
[23:55:13] <zeeshan|2> in about 2 years when i get a new place
[23:55:20] <zeeshan|2> i intend to get a shit load of sheet metal tools
[23:55:38] <zeeshan|2> i only have a bead roller and english wheel
[23:55:49] <zeeshan|2> if you go to a sheet metal shop, they have some serious tools!
[23:55:53] <zeeshan|2> makes life easier
[23:55:57] <furrywolf> I wish I could get a place with a shop. :(
[23:56:04] <furrywolf> property that large is very expensive
[23:56:05] <zeeshan|2> set goals
[23:56:16] <zeeshan|2> move somewhere cheaper?
[23:56:39] <Jymmm> cnc sheetmetal folding machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydJ6Fy3r_ZU
[23:56:59] <furrywolf> folding is only a small subset of forming.
[23:58:14] <furrywolf> setting goals doesn't make them happen. for example, I could set a goal that 4.5 seconds after finishing this line, I'll have a billion dollars in the bank.
[23:58:21] <furrywolf> damn, goal missed. :(
[23:58:24] <Jymmm> Ford sheetmetal prototyping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5_wUVxRvw