#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-22

[00:01:26] <Wolf_Mill> measured something, off by .006 vs the mitutoyo...
[00:07:49] <Contract_Pilot> Was reading... http://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf
[00:08:07] <Contract_Pilot> Airplanes are much simpler
[01:37:44] <Contract_Pilot> 7I76-5I25 PLUG-N-GO KIT wanted + a second 7i76 card? Anyone have any laying around?
[02:17:11] <Deejay> moin
[02:46:15] <Contract_Pilot> evening
[02:55:44] <Contract_Pilot> So much info my brain is hashed.
[02:55:50] <Contract_Pilot> stepping frequency range is from 0 to 300
[02:55:50] <Contract_Pilot> KHz. The driver updates the motor position after a LO-to-HI transition
[02:55:50] <Contract_Pilot> occurs. The minimum pulse width (LO level) should be 2uS.
[02:56:18] <Contract_Pilot> Trying to learn!
[02:56:24] <Contract_Pilot> trying is the key word!
[02:57:14] <Contract_Pilot> Will set my MEsa 5I25 and 7I76 up in LCNC but not sure what all settings i will need for the drivers.
[02:58:11] <archivist> mostly default, just think about scale (steps per distance)
[03:00:24] <Contract_Pilot> Step Time Step Space Direction Hold Direction Setup Steps on
[03:02:04] <archivist> sufficient step time (longer than a drivers minimum)
[03:02:50] <Contract_Pilot> Data sheet is Poor.
[03:02:55] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.microkinetics.com/pdfmanuals/DM8010.pdf
[03:03:28] <Contract_Pilot> unless the step time is the 2us
[03:16:53] <cpresser> is there an easy way to convert quadrature-encoder counts into a +-10V velocity?
[03:19:37] <archivist> yes a flipflop can detect direction, then convert the signal to a rate with a filter and scale with a gain stage
[03:20:43] <archivist> google "quadrature signal to +-10v circuit"
[03:24:28] <cpresser> archivist: my google-fu seems to fail. can you provide a link?
[03:25:19] <archivist> just trying a few of the links, google is not picking up the right stuff
[03:27:17] <Sync> I'm not sure if that is the best idea... but I guess that works to some degree
[03:29:08] <archivist> cpresser, look at the LS7184 chip
[03:29:25] <archivist> halfway there
[03:30:21] <cpresser> yep, but i dont know how to go on from there.
[03:30:22] <archivist> also HLC2705
[03:30:30] <cpresser> does PCW have a finished product for that?
[03:30:46] <cpresser> otherwise i am thinking of FPGA + DAC
[03:31:34] <archivist> you integrate the pulse stream , which could be digital or analog
[03:32:13] <cpresser> i would need to change the integration direction
[03:32:19] <archivist> usually you only use an edge though
[03:32:32] <archivist> those chips detect direction
[03:33:13] <cpresser> yes, but in order to integrate up and down, i need to change the current source for the integrator
[03:33:25] <archivist> I remember seeing a circuit in one of my books but cannot remember which book
[03:34:25] <cpresser> oh, did I say velocity? that will need even more opamp-fu
[03:41:01] <archivist> http://www.motrona.com/signal_converter_incremental.html
[03:42:42] <archivist> even the other way http://www.usdigital.com/products/epot
[03:46:28] <cpresser> "Analogue outputs +/- 10V, 0-20 mA or 4-20 mA, proportional to the encoder position" <- not velocity
[03:46:39] <cpresser> i am reading this right now: http://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/158.php
[03:46:58] <archivist> http://www.genesisautomationonline.com/products/encoder-splitter,-frequency-and-serial-interface-devices/signal-converter-frequency-to-analogue-%28voltage,-current%29-and-serial-rs-232/485.html
[03:48:16] <cpresser> perhaps i should just get tachs and add them to the motor shaft. problem solved
[03:48:58] <archivist> http://www.conicsystems.com/b2729.shtml
[03:49:55] <archivist> last one claims to be for your use purpose
[03:55:10] <cpresser> yep, the description seems okay
[03:57:31] <Sync> cpresser: wouldn't it be easier to change to something that does not need a velocity signal?
[03:58:23] <cpresser> Sync: might be. I am still new to the servo stuff. thats why I am struggling
[03:58:44] <cpresser> on top of that, I dont have full documentation for the servo amps
[04:01:05] <cpresser> the AMPs have two analoge inputs: 'ref' and 'F/V'. the first is reference voltage (speed signal from linuxcnc), and the second the measured velocity (Freq/Voltage) converter
[04:01:28] <cpresser> for now I have the second input grounded and use the amps as torque-mode drives.
[04:01:59] <cpresser> but with that approach I cant get rid of servo hunting. I guess the loop is to slow (2kHz)
[04:02:40] <enleth> cpresser: get tachs if you can
[04:03:10] <cpresser> 10:24 < cpresser> perhaps i should just get tachs and add them to the motor shaft. problem solved
[04:03:28] <enleth> and that's it.
[04:03:36] <cpresser> enleth: i am considering this. but its not so easy since this would require a lot of mechanical work.
[04:03:52] <cpresser> the shafts are to short for tachs + encoders
[04:04:27] <enleth> cpresser: you have the encoder directly mounted on the rear shaft?
[04:04:45] <cpresser> yes
[04:04:55] <enleth> huh.
[04:04:59] <cpresser> the factory did this. its a retrofit
[04:05:45] <enleth> the way I've seen this done most of the time is tach on the shaft, then a rigid clutch, then encoder
[04:06:15] <enleth> so the encoder has a technically separate shaft
[04:06:47] <cpresser> thats the motor+encoder: https://i.imgur.com/hPgGS7L.jpg
[04:06:50] <cpresser> (one of them)
[04:08:40] <cpresser> that is (from bottom up): harmonic drive, brushed DC motor, encoder
[04:09:28] <cpresser> with ~15mm space left between the encoder and the next motor for the Z-Axis. so not much space to fit in a tach
[04:09:50] <enleth> well crap
[04:17:55] <archivist> I would get that conic systems thing or make something
[04:18:02] <Sync> enleth: get proper servo drives
[04:18:05] <Sync> eh cpresser
[04:21:19] <cpresser> I will use a FPGA to do velocity estimation. and use PWM-Output or a real DAC to generate the analog.
[04:21:38] <cpresser> that only uses up my time (and is fun). way better then investing in new drives
[04:22:34] <Sync> why go through all that trouble
[04:23:02] <Sync> your problem will always be quantisation of the velocity signal at low speeds
[04:23:11] <Sync> which will make your control jerky
[04:23:37] <cpresser> i think it will work, because that is the way the original control did it
[04:24:26] <cpresser> besides, any servo-amp with quadrature inputs will do the same, just internally
[04:24:52] <Sync> yes, that's why quadrature is bad
[04:24:52] <enleth> Sync: tacho output is analog
[04:26:17] <cpresser> the original control used a 11bit DAC for the F/V converter
[04:26:38] <enleth> Sync: I'd be more concerned about a shitty tach flatlining at slow speeds
[04:26:49] <Sync> they don't do that
[04:27:34] <Sync> cpresser: yeah why not, I just don't think it is the easiest way to do it
[04:28:30] <cpresser> Sync: affirmative, new drives are easier. but they tend to be expensive. and its not as much fun
[04:31:10] <Sync> a smd uhu is around 160€, I'd rather pay that than to spend the time messing around a problem
[04:33:43] <cpresser> ill rather build this one: https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
[04:35:26] <Sync> sure, but our amplifier is not really suited for DC servos currently
[04:36:32] <cpresser> hmm.. it says "DC Servos" in the Readme
[04:37:09] <cpresser> Sync: are you involved with this project?
[04:37:49] <Sync> yes
[04:37:58] <Sync> it will drive DC servos
[04:38:12] <Sync> just not with the code that is currently checked in without modification
[04:38:21] <Sync> and due to the IGBT module losses will be high
[05:02:11] <XXCoder> heys
[05:34:42] <ganzuul> w00t!
[05:34:58] <ganzuul> got myself 6kg of brass rod
[05:35:23] <ganzuul> 80mm dia
[05:37:13] <ganzuul> cost 27e
[05:40:04] <XXCoder> ganzuul: whats your plan with it?
[05:41:42] <ganzuul> Make a gyroscope like Clickspring's.
[05:42:54] <ganzuul> It's from my local junkyard, btw!
[05:43:05] <XXCoder> nice
[05:43:24] <ganzuul> It's within biking distance and they even have a scanning electron microscope as junk.
[05:43:27] <ganzuul> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0uGC7rikxFuLTJ6RkxDVnN4QTEzanFBSDlrR1RaaUwwZ0xz/view?usp=sharing
[05:45:29] <XXCoder> interesting
[05:45:39] <XXCoder> dont think there is any good junk around here
[05:48:49] <ganzuul> They seem to have everything. It's my new mecca.
[05:51:41] <XXCoder> :)
[05:59:58] <XXCoder> lol check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v3dYHgexOU
[06:20:56] <enleth> The VFD arrived.
[06:21:28] <enleth> It's chinese but I'm still quite impressed with the build quality
[06:21:31] <XXCoder> cant wait for my parallel port
[06:22:06] <enleth> It's INVT GD10-2R2G-4-B
[06:22:34] <XXCoder> for your machine eh
[06:22:36] <XXCoder> nice
[06:23:43] <enleth> Vector drive, 3 phase input, the front panel can be unlatched and mounted separately on a cat6-type extension cable
[06:30:16] <XXCoder> cool :)
[06:51:51] <MacGalempsy> good morning
[06:52:01] <Deejay> good afternoon ;)
[06:52:20] <MacGalempsy> usually this is my good night time, but im off for a few days
[06:52:39] <ganzuul> o-
[06:52:44] <ganzuul> o/
[06:52:52] <Deejay> \o/
[06:53:12] <ganzuul> :3
[06:53:56] <ganzuul> *goes get a bench grinder*
[06:56:24] <XXCoder> hey
[06:57:20] <MacGalempsy> hey
[07:01:43] <MacGalempsy> sweet my endstop fix worked. thank god for rtv cement! lol
[07:05:11] <jthornton> hmm 51F this morning I don't think shorts are the way to go on the bike ride
[07:08:17] <_methods> brrrr
[07:08:29] <MacGalempsy> ha. jthornton I was feeling that down here this morning when I went out to feed the chickens
[07:08:35] <_methods> you could freeze to death out there
[07:08:37] <XXCoder> 51f yeah I agree. its too hot.
[07:08:41] <XXCoder> heh
[07:08:45] <MacGalempsy> 61f here
[07:08:52] <_methods> 80f here
[07:08:53] <_methods> hahaha
[07:09:01] <XXCoder> its apparently 56f now here
[07:09:01] <MacGalempsy> :P
[07:09:08] <MacGalempsy> brb
[07:10:28] <XXCoder> later
[07:12:39] <skunkworks> 58 here - I am weairing shorts...
[07:12:50] <skunkworks> and a T-shirt
[07:13:03] <skunkworks> casual tuesday...
[07:14:09] <jthornton> my wife won't let me have a chicken
[07:14:35] <jthornton> but now that the dog is gone...
[07:19:24] <skunkworks> what about a goat?
[07:22:04] <archivist> goat would eat your machine manuals
[07:25:35] <jthornton> the previous owners kept goats here but over the years the fence is not in good shape
[07:34:07] <MacGalempsy> how about a llama?
[07:35:12] <archivist> then you get on to a TV show with it spitting at you
[07:35:23] <jthornton> lol
[07:39:01] <_methods> ostrich
[07:39:10] <_methods> dr doolittle
[07:42:41] <archivist> or another pet cnc :)
[07:45:42] <jthornton> I just put together a PC for a cnc machine... now I just need a machine
[08:04:02] <gonzo_> no cause for a-llama
[08:18:16] <pcw_home> Ogden Nash...
[09:01:53] <zeeshan> MORNING
[09:10:40] <ganzuul> EVENING
[09:15:26] <cpresser> HAIL SATAN
[09:17:18] <MacGalempsy> HAIL JESUS
[09:20:27] <Sync> hm
[09:20:36] <Sync> 25000rpm is the limit at 30V in
[09:20:48] <Sync> basically getting reduced to 15V at the spindle
[09:21:10] <Sync> and the bearings are pretty dead :/
[10:16:22] <ssi> aoeu
[10:18:34] <Sync> aöü?
[10:19:42] <ssi> yus
[10:22:29] <zeeshan> WHAT S
[10:22:31] <zeeshan> ER
[10:22:38] <zeeshan> damn you caps
[10:22:40] <ssi> ER32?
[10:22:47] <zeeshan> haha
[10:23:44] <ganzuul> hm
[10:24:05] <ganzuul> Maybe 6kg of brass is a bit optimistic for a 45kg lathe...
[10:24:10] <ssi> lol
[10:24:37] <ganzuul> The 85mm 3-jaw will hold it, but...
[10:25:03] <ganzuul> No wait, the chuck is also 80mm
[10:25:12] <ssi> get your grinder?
[10:25:17] <ganzuul> yesh
[10:25:21] <ssi> :D
[10:25:26] <ssi> what did you get?
[10:26:01] <ganzuul> http://www.biltema.fi/fi/Tyokalut/Sahkotyokalut/Penkkihiomakoneet/Penkkihiomakone-BG-150-2000034347/
[10:26:02] <archivist> with large lumps in a lathe use the tail stock for support
[10:26:17] <ganzuul> Thoguht it was ABS plastic, but it's actually metal
[10:26:50] <SpeedEvil> ganzuul: what are you hoping to make?
[10:27:09] <ganzuul> SpeedEvil: A gyroscope like Clickspring's.
[10:27:14] <ssi> ganzuul: the stones that came with it are probably junky
[10:27:22] <ssi> consider ordering some decent stones reasonably soon
[10:27:25] <ssi> and a dressing diamond
[10:27:31] <SpeedEvil> ganzuul: ah
[10:27:34] <ganzuul> I got the dressing diamond.
[10:27:42] <ganzuul> They didn't have other stones.
[10:27:48] <ssi> yeah you'll need to order them probably
[10:35:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, speechless now?
[10:35:38] <Tom_itx> caps got your tongue?
[10:35:51] <ssi> I BROKE ZEESHAN!!! :'(
[10:36:33] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, still milling smurf butts?
[10:37:27] <MacGalempsy> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FUNNY-STICKER-DECAL-SURFACE-GRINDER-NORTON-CINCINNATI-MACHINIST-OKAMOTO-795-/121515261482?hash=item1c4adfbe2a
[10:37:54] <zeeshan> @ work
[10:38:01] <Tom_itx> pfft
[10:38:08] <zeeshan> i complketed 10 smurfs
[10:38:10] <Tom_itx> maybe in body
[10:38:13] <zeeshan> will do more this weekend
[10:38:26] <Tom_itx> all ops done?
[10:38:30] <zeeshan> yes
[10:38:33] <Tom_itx> cool
[10:38:35] <zeeshan> works good
[10:38:49] <zeeshan> now its easy peeze
[10:38:49] <zeeshan> i increased feeds and speeds
[10:38:49] <Tom_itx> need pics
[10:38:57] <Tom_itx> yeah
[10:38:57] <zeeshan> only got inprogress
[10:39:03] <Tom_itx> better to start off conservative
[10:39:55] <_methods> ted cruz conservative?
[10:40:23] <zeeshan> i started at 20 ipm
[10:40:29] <zeeshan> now im at 40 ipm for the 1/2 ball mill
[10:40:36] <zeeshan> and 1/4 is at 18 ipm
[10:40:42] <zeeshan> limited by spindle speed now
[10:40:56] <Tom_itx> get a better spindle!
[10:41:05] <zeeshan> >:]
[10:41:10] <zeeshan> yes 3000 is slow
[10:41:14] <zeeshan> wish i had around 10000
[10:41:14] <Tom_itx> we want that puppy maxed out !
[10:41:24] <MacGalempsy> 10k is mad
[10:41:29] <Tom_itx> heck, my sherline does 6k!
[10:41:31] <Tom_itx> wtf
[10:41:40] <zeeshan> 10000 w/ 7.5hp would be nice
[10:41:40] <MacGalempsy> lol really?
[10:41:50] <Tom_itx> yeah, 10k is good for aluminum etc
[10:42:01] <zeeshan> your sherline would stall with the cuts im making! :P
[10:42:01] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy, 5-6 ish
[10:42:03] <MacGalempsy> mine only does 5k
[10:42:23] <Tom_itx> i changed to timing pulleys
[10:42:31] <Tom_itx> may have fudged on the ratio a bit
[10:42:32] <MacGalempsy> ic
[10:42:53] <Tom_itx> i was going thru too many V belts
[10:43:30] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: what kind of stuff do you make on that?
[10:44:10] <anomynous> who wants to use inches instead of mm. It's just weird that someone wants to use a measurement that requires you to divide it by 25,4 first.
[10:44:15] <anomynous> multiply
[10:44:49] <MacGalempsy> people who dont know the metric system want to use inches
[10:44:55] <anomynous> WHAT?
[10:45:05] <zeeshan> man this assembly im working on at work
[10:45:08] <zeeshan> is hitting 1 million parts almost
[10:45:11] <zeeshan> inventor is struggling
[10:45:34] <zeeshan> long live inches
[10:45:36] <Sync> zeeshan: turn the spindle VFD to 100Hz
[10:45:37] <MacGalempsy> has anyone used fusion 360's CAM?
[10:45:46] <zeeshan> sync its already at 120hz :P
[10:45:46] <anomynous> ive toyed with a bit
[10:45:57] <anomynous> but i havent really used it
[10:46:24] <Sync> 400Hz then zeeshan
[10:46:25] <anomynous> MacGalempsy, why
[10:46:29] <MacGalempsy> it supposedly has a 3axis cam, but havent got that far
[10:46:51] <MacGalempsy> just wondering if anyone could compare it to other software
[10:46:51] <anomynous> it does have. You can access it from cam view. (model view, etc...)
[10:48:01] <anomynous> it seemed fine ;D especially for its price. I hope they release api for the cam soon, so its scriptable. They should be releasing 4th and 5th axis later, i think? If i got it right they are doing it now.
[10:48:35] <MacGalempsy> the 4th 5th axis would be awesome for $40/month
[10:48:51] <anomynous> well, its awesome if it makes parts. Cams are ridicilously expensive
[10:48:57] <ssi> zeeshan: I found a crack in the belly skin of the RV just fwd of the spar carrythrough last night
[10:49:03] <anomynous> gibbscam or mastercam costs you thousands just cheapest
[10:49:08] <ssi> zeeshan: I just got off the phone with vans about it, they're not concerned about it from a structural perspective
[10:49:12] <anomynous> and if you want options, more cash
[10:49:13] <ssi> so that's a relief :P
[10:49:25] <MacGalempsy> i am considering bobcad cam
[10:49:57] <MacGalempsy> they make a solidworks plugin, but that means dropping some $$$ of software
[10:50:48] <anomynous> what do you use the cam for?
[10:51:03] <MacGalempsy> 4 axus vmc
[10:51:14] <anomynous> for work?
[10:52:08] <MacGalempsy> kind of. trying to get my machine finished up, which the light at the end of the tunnel is showing, so its on to the next phase
[10:52:54] <MacGalempsy> i am taking a cnc programming class this semsester, so that is helping get an idea, but we are focused on writing code instead of using cad/cam
[10:56:48] <zeeshan> weld it all together!
[10:56:51] <zeeshan> ssi
[10:57:02] <zeeshan> Sync: bearings prolly wont handle it
[10:57:12] <Sync> #yolo
[10:57:55] <ssi> zeeshan: um no
[10:58:05] <ssi> it's .025" 2024-t3 alclad
[10:58:26] <anomynous> sprutcam seems also one affordable one
[10:58:33] <anomynous> iirc it also comes with a post editor
[11:02:12] <zeeshan> weld it all together!
[11:02:16] <ssi> :P
[11:02:47] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy, not alot lately. just using it to experiment with linuxcnc really
[11:02:56] <Tom_itx> done a few aluminum parts etc
[11:03:00] <ssi> vans said not to even stop drill it because the spar is right on the backside of it
[11:03:14] <ssi> but there's a small gap there, and I think I can use a drill stop and back it up on the inside and safely stop drill it
[11:03:27] <ssi> and they suggested bonding a small patch on the inside with proseal
[11:03:39] <ssi> there's no real way to rivet a patch there without pulling the wings and he said it's not worth the effort
[11:03:49] <ssi> just bond in a patch and watch it every conditional to make sure it's not spreading
[11:04:00] <_methods> just spray some magicseal on there
[11:04:01] <_methods> lol
[11:04:27] <ssi> there was a #8 3/8" panhead stainless screw stuck under the spar in that spot, with the head up
[11:04:37] <ssi> the point load of the bottom of the screw is what caused the crack
[11:04:38] <_methods> it can turn a screen door into a boat
[11:04:54] <ssi> lul
[11:05:07] <_methods> hehe
[11:05:22] <ssi> proseal is like magicseal but more pro
[11:05:22] <_methods> you'll be able to do water landings then
[11:05:23] <Tom_itx> give it to some immigrants and let em test it in the gulf
[11:05:34] <ssi> I call proseal "devil frosting"
[11:05:36] <ssi> horrible stuff
[11:16:10] <CaptHindsight> A misleading disingenuous infomercial! What's this world coming to?
[11:28:05] <Tom_itx> you don't believe all that stuff you hear on tv at 3am?
[11:31:43] <anomynous> python has coroutines in 3.5 ;D I wonder if ruby will sue python for plagiarism. (waits for someone to point out that in year 1985 programming language....)
[11:31:46] <anomynous> ;D
[11:33:41] <CaptHindsight> https://www.5secondfix.com/ :)
[11:35:53] <anomynous> ive always wanted that. thanks. Now i wont glue my fingers together anymore.
[11:36:59] <CaptHindsight> the applicator and LED cost more than the radcure epoxy
[11:37:50] <zeeshan> yay lunch time
[11:38:05] <CaptHindsight> pootine?
[11:38:20] <zeeshan> chicken carrots and peas delecious
[11:38:28] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AsYStKSek
[11:38:39] <zeeshan> if anyone is interested in following the series :P
[11:38:56] <zeeshan> bbl
[11:39:01] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do they really use Inventor for large assemblies?
[11:39:07] <zeeshan> yes
[11:39:58] <MacGalempsy> <== JUST SUBSCRIBED
[11:42:19] <SpeedEvil> I am currently cooking quite a lot of soup.
[11:42:25] <SpeedEvil> ~20l
[11:42:31] <SpeedEvil> chicken. Nom
[11:56:21] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: nice video. those parts are looking good.
[12:02:07] <Sync> hmm I wonder what bearings go into the spindle
[12:11:35] <t12> http://chrisbathgate.blogspot.com/
[12:15:00] <Connor> zeeshan: What exactly is that grip for ?
[12:15:03] <Tom_itx> zeeshan you gonna do a mini series on it? :)
[12:15:23] <Tom_itx> it holds the part in place while surface machining
[12:15:50] <Connor> No. Tom_itx The part his making.. it's a grip.. but.. for what ?
[12:16:00] <Tom_itx> watch the video
[12:16:01] <MacGalempsy> I will admit those are some of the hairiest knuckes I have ever seen
[12:16:14] <_methods> hahahhahahahah
[12:16:18] <ssi> lololol
[12:17:38] <CaptHindsight> hey! Hobbits are peo..... er nevermind
[12:17:52] <Tom_itx> we didn't even get honorable mention...
[12:23:57] <Connor> zeeshan: man, that stuff does chip bad..
[12:25:49] <ssi> zeeshan: lol I think this is the first time I've heard your voice
[12:25:51] <ssi> hilarious
[12:28:43] <archivist> time per part is rather high
[12:29:25] <archivist> charge moooore dolla
[12:30:14] <archivist> and get 4 more vices
[12:30:45] <Tom_itx> or a 5 axis with a toumbstone
[12:31:14] <archivist> and an automatic tool changer
[12:43:18] <archivist> actually apart from internal holes a copy lathe might be the fastest method
[12:44:18] <archivist> see andy's synchronised turning vid and adapt
[12:45:16] <Sync> linear motor and a direct driven 4th axis
[12:45:34] <Sync> and machine the contour at 10krpm
[12:47:49] <ssi> I always wanted to mess with synchronized turning
[12:47:54] <archivist> it reminds me of a cnc balsa fishing float grinding machine
[12:47:59] <ssi> polygonal turning and stuff
[12:54:00] <zeeshan> back
[12:54:30] <zeeshan> haha @ hairy fingers
[12:54:34] <zeeshan> i stay warm in the winter
[12:54:47] <ssi> I bet you do!
[12:54:52] <ssi> hairy canadian bastard
[12:55:15] <zeeshan> God was like -- "i'm gonna screw these brown people over, ill put them in the hottest country and make em hairy"
[12:55:26] <ssi> :D
[12:56:14] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: what make the wood stabilized? Is it impregnated with acrylic or?
[12:56:20] <ssi> epoxy I think
[12:57:02] <Loetmichel2> usually painted with epoxy
[12:57:20] <Loetmichel2> nit impregnated as taht would cost to much byoancy
[12:57:26] <CaptHindsight> painted (coated) or saturated?
[12:57:32] <Loetmichel2> coated
[12:57:36] <Loetmichel2> see above
[12:58:08] <CaptHindsight> then by milling the coating is removed so it's no longed stabilized
[12:58:18] <ssi> yea I don't think that's accurate
[12:58:24] <ssi> I'm pretty sure it's impregnated
[12:58:30] <Sync> yep
[12:58:37] <Sync> in merica there is this cactus juice stuff
[12:58:49] <Sync> which is I think a methacrylate monomer
[12:58:53] <Sync> that is heat activated
[12:59:14] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes trying to do a mini series on it
[12:59:22] <ssi> zeeshan: hurry up with part two sucka
[12:59:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.turntex.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=121
[13:00:02] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: these ones are impregnated with acrylic
[13:00:13] <zeeshan> but differerent color mixtures
[13:00:15] <Loetmichel2> CaptHindsight: oh sorry. i was still at balsa fishing floats
[13:00:21] <Loetmichel2> not as his job
[13:00:36] <Loetmichel2> misinterpretation ;)
[13:00:45] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a blocked isocyanate
[13:00:53] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel2: no problem :)
[13:08:33] <skunkworks> http://www.tormach.com/product-pcnc-440.html
[13:10:03] <archivist> poor Mack out of work.....
[13:14:41] <JT-Shop> it should include the stand for that price
[13:16:10] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubb99FU3F_s&feature=youtu.be
[13:16:13] <skunkworks> pretty
[13:16:40] <zeeshan> "real cnc FOR SHOPS ANY SIZE"
[13:16:41] <zeeshan> LOLOLOL
[13:17:19] <ssi> any size below, say, mine
[13:17:20] <ssi> heh
[13:18:10] <JT-Shop> would not fit in my shop lol
[13:20:55] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, i know XK7120 is specially made for TORMACH. We can't sell its machine body to you.
[13:21:47] <Contract_Pilot> China suppliers are wonderfull at obtaining who they export to.
[13:27:20] <Contract_Pilot> I think the new 440 is an MK16 i will check with my sources. I used to do a lot of trade in china.
[13:30:05] <zeeshan> garbage tormach ;[
[13:30:40] <zeeshan> it is unfortunate someone can't build an awesome machine for 10k
[13:31:11] * zeeshan is turning into furrywooolf:(
[13:31:14] <zeeshan> hater!
[13:31:37] <ssi> zeeshan: 10k isn't much money in the modern disposable economy
[13:32:01] <ssi> this is what I want for christmas: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_992129_Giles+G200.html
[13:34:42] <Contract_Pilot> ssi you a pilot
[13:34:56] <ssi> nah I figure I'll teach myself in that thing
[13:35:50] <Contract_Pilot> I posted this just to say i tried! hahaha! would be a good deal for me! http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bar/5217472426.html
[13:36:14] <ssi> hah nice
[13:36:25] <ssi> maybe I should try to trade my cherokee for a haas
[13:36:35] <Contract_Pilot> hahaha
[13:37:05] <Contract_Pilot> Only sheetmetal i ever bent was a cherokee 140
[13:37:25] <ssi> how'd you manage that?
[13:37:25] <ganzuul> Who the hell puts threadlock on a bench grinder's retainer nut and doesn't even balance the wheel?!
[13:37:29] <Contract_Pilot> Wet grass and a break locked up. no room to go arround.
[13:37:38] <ssi> :?
[13:37:39] <ssi> :/ rather
[13:38:33] <Contract_Pilot> what i do for a living http://www.stevenrhine.com/?p=537
[13:38:38] <ssi> yea I saw
[13:38:39] <furrywolf> ... people balance grinder wheels? :P
[13:39:20] <Contract_Pilot> Should balance when you dress it!
[13:39:41] <ssi> what are those, 231s?
[13:40:16] <ssi> acclaim
[13:40:38] <Contract_Pilot> M20's
[13:40:43] <Contract_Pilot> R and TN
[13:40:57] <ssi> yea the older M20s didn't have the long rear window
[13:41:03] <ssi> the 231 and 252 have the long rear window like that too
[13:41:33] <ssi> I have the cherokee 140, an RV6, an RV7, and a pitts S1-SS
[13:42:00] <Contract_Pilot> Cool. i just have a cessna 150M
[13:42:08] * furrywolf has no money
[13:42:22] * ssi has no money either. See aforementioned airplanes :P
[13:42:24] <Contract_Pilot> Sometimes i forget how to fly steam guage!
[13:42:38] <ssi> heheh
[13:42:45] <ssi> I have glass in the 7
[13:42:46] <Contract_Pilot> I fly to much glass!
[13:42:52] <ganzuul> furrywolf: ...and put opposite-handed screw threads on them too.
[13:43:00] <ssi> the 6 just has a ratty old D6, plus steam gauges
[13:43:09] <ssi> no gyros in aerobatic airplanes :P
[13:43:09] <ganzuul> furrywolf: Damn prank, painting it with what looks like threadlock.
[13:43:15] <furrywolf> lol
[13:43:47] <ssi> finally managed to tumble the D6 this weekend :D
[13:43:53] <ganzuul> It's on there good now...
[13:44:23] <Contract_Pilot> I had a G1000 go dark on me between Greenland and Iceland back in 2006 had tyo land in greenland with 2000' overcast at night and DH is 3,800' somthing like that hahaha
[13:44:54] <ssi> that's the worst part about glass... too many single-point failures
[13:45:01] <Contract_Pilot> yep.
[13:45:09] <ssi> I've been behind the avidyne nonsense in the cirruses a few times and had them go all Xs
[13:45:16] <ssi> not in imc thankfully
[13:45:22] <Contract_Pilot> i just followed the helo's bright lights.
[13:45:45] <ssi> I wouldn't own a cirrus even if they weren't 750k :P
[13:45:54] <Contract_Pilot> Well iu was at FL120 had to go thru the soop.
[13:46:10] <furrywolf> whatever happened to separate right and left systems fed power off each engine, with crossover switches, three sets of each sensor with voting logic, etc? :P
[13:46:33] <ssi> furrywolf: we aint talkin bout part 25 jets here man :D
[13:47:10] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: we did some practice formation flight in the clouds a few weeks ago
[13:47:11] <Contract_Pilot> I had a turbo fail on a PA46
[13:47:14] <ssi> that's freakin hard
[13:47:30] <ssi> malibu? is that the piston one?
[13:47:35] <ssi> I can never remember
[13:47:44] <Contract_Pilot> between New Caldonia and Gold Coast it drank 12 qts of oil
[13:47:46] * furrywolf likes redundancy
[13:47:52] <Contract_Pilot> yep.
[13:48:08] <furrywolf> as a friend always put it... a second engine helps you get to the scene of the crash.
[13:48:12] <ssi> there's a guy at my field that just bought an Evolution
[13:48:31] <ssi> furrywolf: only if you overload it or fly like a moron
[13:48:52] <ssi> a twin will climb over gross... just not single engine :P
[13:49:16] <furrywolf> or live here surrounded by hills that require climb performance better than you can get with a single engine if you're loaded, with nowhere before them to land.
[13:49:26] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/000_0077-1024x575.jpg
[13:49:45] <Contract_Pilot> Singles will climb overgross
[13:50:08] <ssi> furrywolf: the minimum climb gradients are published for every departure. If the airplane won't meet the secondary climb gradient on one engine, it's not legal to make that flight
[13:50:20] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: damn that's a lot of ferry fuel
[13:50:21] <furrywolf> also could be navajos suck.
[13:50:27] <Contract_Pilot> I did a 172 to hawaii and was 50% over and took over an hourt to get to FL080
[13:50:36] <Contract_Pilot> 263 Gallons
[13:51:10] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: fortunately not much rising terrain off the coast of california :D
[13:51:46] <Contract_Pilot> 172 with 124 gallons in the back 30% Over with out a 175lb pilot it is out of CG hahaha http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/100_0195-1024x768.jpg
[13:52:00] <ssi> hooooooly
[13:52:05] <ssi> does not want
[13:52:41] <furrywolf> probably didn't help they were all poorly maintained navajos too... they'd send them out with tires so bald the cords were sticking out, "optional" equipment (like heaters and radios) broken,...
[13:52:52] <Contract_Pilot> 160 gallons in a SR20 http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/100_2138-1024x768.jpg
[13:53:10] <ssi> ugh sr20s will burn to the ground if you look at them funny
[13:53:14] <furrywolf> many of them left a nice blue smoke trail behind them taxing... one guy said he had to add about 4-6 quarts every half hour...
[13:53:39] <Contract_Pilot> The cirrus have great climb preformance at 30% over
[13:54:01] <ssi> I'm sure
[13:54:06] <ssi> I've had my cherokee 25% over before
[13:54:08] <ssi> it does ok
[13:54:12] <ssi> it's not a great climber to begin with
[13:54:24] <furrywolf> if you want nice planes, don't fly cargo. :)
[13:55:15] <Contract_Pilot> Commander is a pig over gross http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Commander-114.jpg
[13:55:17] <ssi> if you fly cargo, don't forget to strap your load
[13:55:20] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIjO0sKBDDw
[13:55:53] <furrywolf> we always had bulky but light items... just put nets up between bays to prevent shifting.
[13:56:12] <ssi> I've flown a 115 commander, it was a pretty snappy plane
[13:56:31] <Contract_Pilot> in weight thay are good
[13:56:42] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/IMG_1905-1024x768.jpg
[13:57:16] <ssi> neat
[13:57:56] <ssi> what are the hoops like to get that
[13:58:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/KOka4at.jpg
[13:58:05] <ssi> gotta get a DER involved?
[13:58:06] <zeeshan> wish i could have a couple of those copper pieces
[13:58:13] * zeeshan will see if i can poick up scrap
[13:58:27] <zeeshan> thats 2500lb of copper!
[13:58:53] <zeeshan> (unless inventor is lieing)
[13:59:07] <Connor> zeeshan: You never answered my questions.. :(
[13:59:42] <furrywolf> zeeshan: how's your case of the lumps doing?
[14:00:10] <Contract_Pilot> Lots of paperwork.
[14:00:25] <Contract_Pilot> DER & DAR
[14:00:26] <zeeshan> connor q's are answeered in video :P
[14:00:37] <zeeshan> furrywolf: posted a video on youtube :P
[14:00:40] <Connor> Not what the grip is for.
[14:00:42] <ssi> figures
[14:00:42] <zeeshan> but your connection wont be able to handle it
[14:00:55] <ssi> I have a fsdo inspector friend, which is handy
[14:01:07] <ssi> he did the airworthiness on the RV6, and he's gonna do the 7 and pitts when they're done
[14:01:14] <ssi> and he recently signed me off for my A&P tests
[14:01:46] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/IFF-Plumbing.jpg
[14:01:59] <zeeshan> vaporizer
[14:02:03] <Contract_Pilot> FSDO inspector has to have special training
[14:02:17] <furrywolf> yay, not more clear vinyl hose. :P
[14:02:28] <ssi> looks like aviation department of home depot
[14:02:38] <Contract_Pilot> going to be a long 4 week wait for my mesa combo.
[14:02:50] <Contract_Pilot> all parker fittings
[14:03:04] <ssi> the ball valves in particular
[14:03:39] <ssi> do you do the tank fabrication, install, plumbing yourself, or are you just the meat in the seat
[14:03:56] <zeeshan> cmeat in the seat lol
[14:03:58] <furrywolf> "As of September 21, 2015, at least one class-action lawsuit had been filed on behalf of Volkswagen and Audi owners" I knew that was going to happen. lol
[14:04:03] <zeeshan> nice way to put it :P
[14:04:16] <Contract_Pilot> We do the tank installs but we did not do this one! this is home depot plumbing http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/100_2141-1024x768.jpg
[14:04:38] <ssi> ugh yeah that's not good
[14:05:00] <Connor> What is this.. extra gas tanks?
[14:05:04] <ssi> yea ferry tanks
[14:05:05] <Contract_Pilot> the same company that tanked that one tanked the one that ditched in the pacific.
[14:05:08] * furrywolf made fun of that one yesterday
[14:05:19] <Connor> and I guess the FAA etc don't like homedepot fittings and hoses.. huh...
[14:05:26] <ssi> was that the cirrus that ditched under canopy?
[14:05:32] <zeeshan> nice furry
[14:05:40] <ssi> Connor: screw the faa, I wouldn't want to fly it
[14:05:44] <furrywolf> ssi: yep
[14:05:54] <zeeshan> epa is going to roast vw
[14:06:06] <ssi> zeeshan: I heard they're wanting a fine of ~400 TRILLION
[14:06:06] <furrywolf> that hose lasts about two weeks if you put gasoline in it. :P
[14:06:08] <zeeshan> Daas auto is done
[14:06:09] <ssi> which made me laugh so hard
[14:06:23] <zeeshan> lol
[14:06:24] <ssi> furrywolf: fortunately it doesn't take two weeks to cross the pacific :D
[14:06:28] <Contract_Pilot> I stopped using that company years ago due to crappyt fuel system installs using plumbing.
[14:07:08] <Contract_Pilot> Some times it does take a while depending on permits and weather.
[14:07:20] <Contract_Pilot> generally under 30days
[14:07:57] <furrywolf> a lot of people are going to refuse to take their vehicle in for the "fix" that cuts a lot of power and economy. then california is going to refuse to renew the registration. then hell is really going to break loose.
[14:08:11] <furrywolf> would YOU take your car in for a "fix" that costs you 20% power and 20% of your milage?
[14:08:12] <ssi> yeah there's no way in hell I'll do the recall
[14:08:26] <Contract_Pilot> Seneca V another one from the company that tanked the ditched cirrus. http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/100_1384-1024x768.jpg
[14:08:28] <ssi> in fact I'm out of warranty now, I'm gonna do a dpf delete and a tune before too long
[14:08:40] <ssi> Contract_Pilot: ugh that's awful
[14:08:52] <furrywolf> I expect california to refuse to renew registrations on vehicles without it.
[14:09:14] <ssi> yeah well california can suck it
[14:09:31] <Contract_Pilot> Charlie Sprinkle! Google him
[14:09:33] <furrywolf> I do neater plumbing on my air compressors. :P
[14:09:40] <Contract_Pilot> Yea,
[14:09:47] <Connor> I don't understand "how" VW did what they did.. do they still not have the vehicles checked by a external system ?
[14:09:48] <ssi> what a terrible name hahah
[14:10:11] <Contract_Pilot> the fuel line we use is aircraft grade.
[14:10:18] <ssi> what line is it
[14:10:24] <ssi> it's definitely not 303
[14:10:33] <Contract_Pilot> Aeroquip and Stratoflex
[14:10:42] <ssi> yea but which
[14:10:47] <ssi> looks like 6000 if anything
[14:11:04] <furrywolf> Connor: they programmed the engine computer to detect when it was being tested, and do everything properly, with low emissions, but also low power and low economy. then when it senses it's back to normal driving, it went to high power and good economy mode.
[14:11:14] <ssi> 6000 isn't really fuel rated
[14:11:16] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, have to check the paperwork on the exact line we use.
[14:11:24] <ssi> might be 306
[14:11:37] <ganzuul> I need some kind of enclosure for the bench grinder. It's even messier than I expected.
[14:11:51] <Contract_Pilot> We get our line from Aviall
[14:11:53] <ssi> 303 is the "right" hose to use and it costs the same as 303 or 6000
[14:12:04] <ssi> s/303 or/306 or/
[14:12:11] <furrywolf> Connor: one thing I heard was that they looked for the steering wheel remaining straight for long periods of time. the idea being that if you're on a dyno, the steering is straight the entire time, so assume you're being tested and behave.
[14:12:12] <Contract_Pilot> the company that tanked the other aircraft used line from Home Depot
[14:12:17] <ssi> yeah obviously
[14:12:18] * furrywolf hopes 303 is the same cost as 303.
[14:12:29] <ssi> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq303.php?clickkey=8584
[14:12:31] <Connor> I'm in a State that doesn't do emissions testing.. I just thought they stick a thing in your tailpipe and ran it for a while.. didn't know they hooked it up to the onboard computer.
[14:12:33] <ssi> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq306.php?clickkey=7903
[14:12:39] <ssi> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/mil6000.php?clickkey=5242
[14:12:56] <ssi> Connor: they haven't done tailpipe testing since 1996 when obd2 testing became the standard
[14:13:04] <Contract_Pilot> We have 250' spools of hose.
[14:13:11] <furrywolf> ... they still do tailpipe testing.
[14:13:18] <Connor> Again, I have no clue.. TN doesn't do testing. :)
[14:13:32] <ssi> furrywolf: only in fascist califorina
[14:13:45] <cradek> furrywolf: do you have a citation saying it affects power/economy?
[14:13:47] <Contract_Pilot> Here in WA they OBD2 except for the Hummer thay tail piper that.
[14:13:54] <Contract_Pilot> Due to weight.
[14:13:55] <furrywolf> in soviet california, vehicle emissions control you!
[14:14:01] <zeeshan> haha
[14:14:02] <ssi> pretty much :P
[14:14:10] <cradek> furrywolf: I haven't been able to figure that out
[14:14:18] <MrSunshine> in sweden we test in tail pipe .. tho some ladies doesnt like it :P
[14:14:23] <furrywolf> cradek: not off the top of my head, but I've read it several times in reference to the current story, plus in the past in discussions on why subaru won't sell the diesel here.
[14:15:08] <furrywolf> cradek: NOx is due to high combustion temperatures... high combustion temperatures also cause high power and efficiency. ways of lowering combustion temperatures inherently lower how much power you can extract from the fuel.
[14:16:11] <CaptHindsight> so ends the mystery of why VW was one of the few that sold small diesels in the USA
[14:16:41] <cradek> CaptHindsight: yeah sadly
[14:16:53] <Contract_Pilot> I like the diesel DA-42
[14:17:03] <ssi> heh I've heard nothing but bad things about the thielerts
[14:17:06] <furrywolf> Subaru did some tests when thinking of bring their diesel here, and to make the EPA happy, they had to both add a urea system and lose 20% economy.
[14:17:20] <Contract_Pilot> 6gph of jet a at 160kts
[14:17:22] <ssi> friend of mine did his multi training in a DA42, and he had three real engine failures during 10 hours
[14:17:33] <ssi> one of which was when he was on an instrument approach with one shut down
[14:17:36] <furrywolf> that's some pretty unreliable engines.
[14:17:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.wired.com/2015/09/vw-fool-epa-couldnt-trick-chemistry/ how they got caught
[14:17:44] <Contract_Pilot> Most failure are due to abuse.
[14:17:59] <ssi> my understanding was they were fadec and any sensor out of range would cause it to shut down and feather
[14:18:06] <Contract_Pilot> cannot chop the throttle like a gas.
[14:18:41] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: they got caught because someone loaded a bunch of test equipment in the back of a jetta, plugged it into a honda generator, and drove around town, and it mysteriously read quite a bit higher than the exact same car did on a dyno.
[14:19:17] <cradek> furrywolf: I've seen people suspect it's because the expensive NOx trap (VWs don't use exhaust fluid) would need replacing often if used all the time
[14:19:27] <cradek> furrywolf: I think both are just guesses
[14:19:41] <CaptHindsight> steering column and wheel sensor
[14:19:54] <furrywolf> you should look at the pictures... they stuffed an impressive array of test equipment into the back of the cars. one of their tests ended up needing two 2kw generators to power, because they had more gear than would run off one.
[14:19:58] <CaptHindsight> computer sensors monitored the steering column. Under normal driving conditions, the column oscillates as the driver negotiates turns. But during emissions testing, the wheels of the car move, but the steering wheel doesn’t.
[14:20:18] <ssi> cradek: only some of the vws use the particulate filter, the rest use exhaust fluid
[14:20:22] <CaptHindsight> That seems to have have been the signal for the “defeat device” to turn the catalytic scrubber up to full power,
[14:20:33] <furrywolf> cradek: the study tested both one without exhaust fluid and one with.
[14:20:36] <cradek> ssi: those are two different systems
[14:20:59] <ssi> isn't that what I said? :P
[14:21:02] <furrywolf> both had the same anamolous behavior where road testing produced wildly different results than dyno testing.
[14:21:12] <cradek> furrywolf: oh both kinds of NOx systems are disabled? I thought it was only the non-fluid models
[14:21:21] <furrywolf> yes, both.
[14:21:42] <furrywolf> it's a power and economy thing... if your car gets crap power and crap economy, a lot fewer people will buy it.
[14:21:57] <Contract_Pilot> AE 300 was better than the thielert
[14:21:59] <ssi> good thing we have our benevolent government
[14:22:15] <Contract_Pilot> Consumed more fuel.
[14:22:24] <ssi> they'll step in and use their monopoly on legal violence to ensure that none of us accidentally buy inexpensive cars that get good fuel economy
[14:22:33] <furrywolf> I pasted the PDF with the testing last night.
[14:23:30] * furrywolf googles for it again
[14:23:40] <Contract_Pilot> need to find somone selling some mesa cards so i can play
[14:23:56] <cradek> ssi: yeah, screw all those kids with asthma, we want powerful cars
[14:24:13] <Contract_Pilot> I drive a hummer H2
[14:24:14] <cradek> ssi: and bring back the lead in gas too, my 52 chevy wants it
[14:24:25] <Contract_Pilot> go to the airport 100LL
[14:24:37] <furrywolf> http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/WVU_LDDV_in-use_ICCT_Report_Final_may2014.pdf
[14:24:41] <Contract_Pilot> 100 Octane with Lead
[14:24:50] <cradek> perfect
[14:24:58] <furrywolf> has some good photos of the rather impressive test setup
[14:25:02] <cradek> furrywolf: thanks
[14:25:02] <ssi> cradek: note I said nothing about power
[14:25:09] <ssi> just economy, which is what the green assholes USED to bitch about
[14:25:49] <furrywolf> my '68 jeep pickup doesn't need lead, but it does need proper engine oil. I run diesel engine oil in it, because people have found the new cat-friendly crap results in ruined cams.
[14:26:04] <ssi> and NOx doesn't cause smog
[14:26:24] <cradek> > I'm gonna do a dpf delete and a tune before too long
[14:26:31] <CaptHindsight> I wonder why they aren't trying to shut down CAFEE now vs go after VW?
[14:26:45] <ssi> still don't see where I said anything about power
[14:27:08] <ssi> CaptHindsight: which one has the deeper pockets?
[14:27:20] <ssi> they're trying to fine vw $37,500 per car for 11 million cars
[14:27:25] <ssi> which is laughable
[14:27:26] <cradek> yeah what are you going to tune for? as much black exhaust as possible?
[14:27:34] <ssi> cradek: economy
[14:27:55] <ssi> the vw CRDs are surprisingly non-sooty even without the dpf
[14:28:17] <ssi> perhaps because lean operation produces very little HC and particulate emissions
[14:28:21] <ssi> just nox
[14:28:39] <Contract_Pilot> SMA diesel aircraft engies has lots of soot!
[14:28:42] <ssi> but you know, some bureaucrat said nox is bad, so lets all have a witchhunt
[14:29:28] <furrywolf> no, some bureaucrat spent time on his new yacht with his new buddies from exxon and decided nox is bad.
[14:29:58] <cradek> furrywolf: I agree those are impressive looking test setups
[14:30:08] <ssi> or perhaps this whole thing is an effort to make sure that the industry stays focused on electric cars, and doesn't want any pesky competition
[14:30:20] <furrywolf> there are very large interests with very large amounts of money who do not want to see fuel-efficient vehicles.
[14:30:29] <roycroft> why is that laughable, ssi?
[14:30:41] <roycroft> the law provides for that amount
[14:30:44] <roycroft> and vw knew that
[14:30:53] <ssi> roycroft: fining them 150% of the retail price of the products?
[14:31:00] <roycroft> they chose to violate the law anyway
[14:31:02] <ssi> vw isn't a government that can just print a half a trillion dollars
[14:31:24] <roycroft> well they had the option of not breaking the law
[14:31:50] <cradek> their execs could go to jail like I would if I committed widespread fraud that harms people
[14:32:02] <roycroft> it looks like .eu are going to investigate vw as well
[14:32:12] <furrywolf> I think we should make a law that anyone who crosses the street without hopping on one foot the entire time, with no changes of which foot allowed, gets fined one billion dollars per every time the other foot is used. they have the option of not breaking the law if they don't like it.
[14:32:18] <ssi> furrywolf: agreed
[14:32:29] <cradek> now you're being very silly
[14:32:33] <ssi> right up there with my campaign platform for a $1000/hr minimum wage
[14:32:42] <roycroft> there is no social utility to such a hopping law
[14:32:53] <furrywolf> I'm not being any more silly than roycroft. :P
[14:33:00] <ssi> roycroft: not according to recent studies
[14:33:05] <cradek> you might think that, but you'd be wrong
[14:33:10] <CaptHindsight> http://ibin.co/2GYZHTQrBWtf maybe all emissions test will now be performed like this
[14:33:11] <roycroft> what am i saying that is silly
[14:33:18] <cradek> nothing
[14:33:19] <roycroft> ?
[14:33:49] <furrywolf> roycroft: you're saying that because something is the law makes it the right thing, and that completely arbritary laws and fines are perfectly acceptable.
[14:34:08] <roycroft> i said absolutely nothing even remotely resembling that
[14:34:09] <furrywolf> I gave an example of another completely arbitrary law and fine.
[14:34:21] <cradek> roycroft: you think government has a useful job of regulating businesses so they don't poison us all. other people think that's silly, and they're wrong
[14:34:44] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: that's one of the images in the pdf file I pasted. heh.
[14:34:48] <roycroft> unjust laws should be changed
[14:34:48] <ssi> other people have a very different idea of what "poisoning us all" means
[14:34:52] <cradek> regulating businesses so they don't poison us all is a useful function of government; regulating foot-hopping is not, and you know the difference
[14:35:09] <cradek> stop pretending you don't
[14:35:33] <roycroft> i've grown weary of arguing with teabagger types
[14:35:40] <cradek> we've seen you here for a long time and know you're not stupid
[14:35:49] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: yup, and tests will now take 1 hour and they will be hiring 1M new testers to get rid of unemployment
[14:35:52] <roycroft> i should try harder not to take the bait
[14:35:58] <cradek> roycroft: you and me both
[14:36:17] <ssi> roycroft: anyone who doesn't agree with your worldview automatically has something to do with putting testicles in someone else's mouth?
[14:36:40] <roycroft> my worldview is based on facts, not emotion and dogma
[14:36:51] <ssi> slippery things, facts
[14:37:00] <roycroft> i hear that facts are liberal
[14:37:05] <furrywolf> walking using both feet results in increased deposits of synthetic rubber on the pavement which results in runoff into storm sewers and into the environment, furthers our dependence on foreign shoe imports, and the hopping action improves pedestrian visibility and thus safety, saving hundreds of lives every year.
[14:37:05] <cradek> yes reality is well-known to have a liberal bias
[14:37:07] <roycroft> and thus inherently flawed
[14:37:24] <cradek> furrywolf: (you're still doing that thing)
[14:37:24] <CaptHindsight> I only come to IRC for the rational debates and polite discussion
[14:37:30] <furrywolf> lol
[14:37:30] <cradek> haha
[14:37:46] * roycroft hands capthindsight a nice cup of tea and some crumpets
[14:38:09] <cradek> I don't know what a crumpet is, but can I have one too?
[14:38:32] <roycroft> wretched lot, the gerries
[14:38:34] <furrywolf> I'm sure I could write an entire paper on how crossing streets while hopping on one foot is beneficial. :P
[14:38:36] <ssi> it's just always amazing to me how said facts always point to stripping one group of people of very real liberties in the name of protecting more ephemeral ones, usually for some kind of childrend
[14:38:42] <roycroft> i do hope no more of the staff will be conscripted
[14:38:51] <cradek> furrywolf: don't forget to quote your scientific studies
[14:38:52] <roycroft> things are getting chaotic downstairs
[14:39:21] <roycroft> with our being short a parlour maid it takes the women much longer to dress for dinner these days
[14:39:27] <ssi> cradek's martyrs of choice today are "kids with asthma"
[14:39:33] <furrywolf> meh. I want the sun to come out, but it seems to be refusing to do so.
[14:40:04] <roycroft> it's amazing how some people think that acting responsibly and with forethought deprives them of some fundamental essential liberties
[14:40:33] <roycroft> the sun is just starting to peek out here
[14:40:49] <roycroft> which is good, because i have a load of laundry that is about ready to hang out
[14:40:53] <furrywolf> I want to ban smoking. give me an argument on why smoking should be allowed. :P
[14:41:20] <roycroft> and it's cool enough these days that it would not dry thoroughly in overcast conditions
[14:41:20] <cradek> ssi: first particulates->asthma citation I found: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC59535/
[14:41:23] <ssi> smoking probably creates more emissions than vws
[14:41:30] <roycroft> it doesn't
[14:41:31] <ssi> cradek: nox isn't particulates
[14:41:34] <roycroft> and smoking should not be blanket banned
[14:41:41] <furrywolf> cradek: except we're talking about NOx, not PM.
[14:41:45] <cradek> ssi: "dpf delete" is
[14:41:51] <roycroft> people should be allowed to do what they want to their bodies as long as it does not affect other people
[14:41:53] <ssi> yes but that's a completely separate discussion
[14:42:07] <ssi> where I live it's not illegal for me to defeat emissions equipment
[14:42:20] <Loetmichel2> furrywolf: iirc NOx is a main component of cigarette smoke.
[14:42:30] <ssi> roycroft: smoking absolutely does affect other people
[14:42:35] <furrywolf> roycroft: tobacco production results in exploitation of vulnerable peoples, and the smoke is harmful to others, not just the smoker.
[14:42:44] <cradek> whoah
[14:42:53] <roycroft> an argument can be made for regulating smoking in public places
[14:42:54] <gonzo_nb> do people hurting themselves not cost everyone in terms of medical costs
[14:43:12] <ssi> gonzo_nb: only as a consequence of the socialist nightmare healthcare system we've created for ourselves
[14:43:15] <roycroft> gonzo_nb: insurance companies are allowed to charge higher premiums for smokers
[14:43:18] <Loetmichel2> gonzo_: as do obesity.
[14:43:27] <cradek> I'm surprised to see you both line up in favor of VW but against individual smokers
[14:43:29] <Loetmichel2> tjell me the country there THAT runs rampant....
[14:43:31] <roycroft> which should compensate for that
[14:43:40] <gonzo_nb> or do people hurting themselves shortef their lives, saving costs in the long run
[14:43:58] <ssi> cradek: I'm not actually against individual smokers, but it's useful to point out the hypocrisy in selective banning that liberals love
[14:44:00] <Loetmichel2> s/there/where
[14:44:13] <furrywolf> also, you need to weigh the relative harm between increased nox emissions, and 20% increased total emissions, fuel consumption, oil imports, greenhouse gasses, etc.
[14:44:14] <ssi> I do enjoy the benefits of smoking bans, but I'm ideologically torn about them
[14:44:16] <cradek> ssi: (?)
[14:44:19] <roycroft> fortunately the percentage of the population who smoke is still declining, and within a few decades will be negligable
[14:44:27] <gonzo_nb> being a 60 a day smoker does get you a better pension annuity.
[14:44:38] <cradek> roycroft: that would sure be ideal
[14:45:05] <gonzo_nb> they are about to bring in a ban on smoking in vwhicles with childern in
[14:45:14] <roycroft> we have banned that in oregon
[14:45:17] <roycroft> and that is a good thing
[14:45:27] <roycroft> children have no choice
[14:45:44] <gonzo_nb> though for safety, drivers should not be smoking.
[14:45:45] <furrywolf> reducing the nox output will significantly decrease economy. this results in more total emissions, more greenhouse gasses, more refinerys, more oil wells, more fracking, and more invading afghanistan.
[14:45:46] <ssi> cradek: I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that drugs and gay marriage and abortion should be legal in addition to guns and cars and 44 ounce sodas
[14:46:37] <Loetmichel2> ssi: they should
[14:46:52] <furrywolf> someone has made a decision that lowering nox is more important than lowering all those other things. that those other things make people very very rich is just a coincidence I'm sure.
[14:46:57] <Loetmichel2> but also they should cost you dearly (most of them)
[14:47:01] <gonzo_nb> if beer and tobacco were discovered today, they wpould be outright bans
[14:47:12] <ssi> furrywolf: I'm sure
[14:47:49] <furrywolf> given the choice, I'd much rather have slightly more nox and slightly less invading afghanistan.
[14:47:58] <gonzo_nb> but on an on topic question, sorry to break the flow...
[14:47:59] <ssi> furrywolf: BUT THE CHIIIIIILDREN
[14:48:31] <Loetmichel2> children tend to grow... whatever you do
[14:48:33] <ssi> furrywolf: given the choice, I'd rather have slightly more nox and significantly less nickel stripmining
[14:48:36] <roycroft> the invading iraq was the bigger problem
[14:48:36] <gonzo_nb> looking at the mesa pnc application. I don't see the 7i90 in there. Is there an updateavain/due??
[14:48:58] <Loetmichel2> ... less self confident if packed in cotton wool i would dare to say
[14:49:34] <furrywolf> ssi: you mean catalysts don't appear out of thin air on demand? :P
[14:49:35] <ssi> Loetmichel2: the us government is trying to pack everyone in cotton wool these days, kids and adults alike
[14:49:42] <ssi> furrywolf: I was thinking more along the lines of prius batteries
[14:49:44] <ssi> but yeah
[14:50:21] <furrywolf> don't new priuses use li*? I know someone I know said hers has li batts, but she got a fancy plug-in version.
[14:50:45] <ssi> someone had the audacity to produce a car which is safer than a prius, cheaper than a prius, more comfortable than a prius, gets consideroably better fuel economy than a prius, and has 5000% less weight in batteries than a prius
[14:50:49] <Loetmichel2> ssi: look waht it did to us. the next generation taht just turned 18 is (in general) not even able to survive without an iphone, not even thinking about a week in the wilderness.
[14:50:53] <ssi> better kill it with fire before everyone realizes what a good value it is
[14:51:16] <PCW> gonzo_nb: 7I90 is supported by linuxcnc 2.6 and >
[14:51:37] <PCW> (sorry for the OT interruption)
[14:51:53] <Loetmichel2> :-)
[14:51:56] <gonzo_nb> hehe, thanks peter
[14:52:32] <furrywolf> Loetmichel2: but they watched bear grylls (or whatever the heck his name is) on TV giving absolutely essential and correct survival information!
[14:52:35] <gonzo_nb> just gatting back to a stalled project and having to start from square one again
[14:53:02] <gonzo_nb> I prefer Ray Mears
[14:53:50] <CaptHindsight> DST is the larger problem, why can't the sun come up after 7am?
[14:53:56] <ssi> the truly amazing thing about this whole debacle is that furrywolf and I are united on the topic :D
[14:54:02] <chris_99> i read something about bear grylls staying in a hotel, when they were supposed to be staying in the wilderness
[14:54:18] <furrywolf> chris_99: duh. he always stays in a hotel.
[14:54:24] <furrywolf> I think les stroud is the only one that doesn't.
[14:54:27] <chris_99> haha
[14:54:40] <gonzo_nb> is that mr bush tucker?
[14:54:47] <furrywolf> (survivorman)
[14:55:08] <Wolf_> les stroud is the one who sets his shelters on fire
[14:55:21] <chris_99> heh, why's that?
[14:55:22] <ssi> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11403013_864581636961889_8734695408406961780_n.jpg?oh=cdbdc26c7a0eb7017fb710615fa2d05f&oe=569AB738
[14:55:29] <furrywolf> lol
[14:55:35] <furrywolf> in the real world, things sometimes go wrong. valuable lesson, that. :P
[14:55:37] <Wolf_> cause he is a idiot
[14:55:59] <Wolf_> makes watching fun tho
[14:56:05] <chris_99> haha
[14:56:17] <CaptHindsight> I'd watch a show where Surviorman and Bear take a group of 24, 20-somethings into the wilderness and only 3 come out
[14:56:51] <cradek> his name is bear?
[14:56:53] <furrywolf> last time I was at someone's house and they had bear grylls doing his stupid show, he was demonstrating the proper way to jump off a cliff and slide down the side of a tree. like, seriously? you're in a survival situation, DO NOT TAKE UNNECCESARY RISKS. what does a broken leg do to your survival chances? the show should have been cancelled for airing that.
[14:56:58] <furrywolf> cradek: yep
[14:57:05] <gonzo_nb> ray mears looks like he does similar, but the missing 21 are lunch
[14:57:07] <cradek> he sounds bearish
[14:57:08] <ssi> my cousin's name is Bear
[14:57:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.beargrylls.com/
[14:57:57] <furrywolf> how about survivorman vs bear, with no tv crew and no hotels? see who gives up and radios for rescue first. :)
[14:57:58] <CaptHindsight> Edward didn't sound as outdoorsy
[14:58:47] <furrywolf> lol
[14:59:00] <furrywolf> we call those hippie names here.
[14:59:15] <Aero-Tec> my testing comp is sort of locked up
[14:59:28] <Aero-Tec> heavy HD access it looks like
[14:59:29] <furrywolf> people rename themselves to forest, sky, sunshine, river, earth, stream, etc, etc, etc...
[14:59:36] <Aero-Tec> HD light is full on
[14:59:50] <furrywolf> run top and see what's running?
[14:59:54] <furrywolf> out of ram?
[15:00:09] <CaptHindsight> he named his kids Marmaduke and Huckleberry
[15:00:18] <furrywolf> rainbow names are often related.
[15:00:41] <Aero-Tec> only have linuxcnc running and a few file windows
[15:00:43] <furrywolf> better than moon unit three or whatever zappa named his. :)
[15:01:06] <renesis> moon unit is an awesome name
[15:01:09] <Aero-Tec> so how do you run top?
[15:01:36] <CaptHindsight> open a terminal
[15:01:40] <SEL>
[15:01:41] <CaptHindsight> type top
[15:01:49] <Aero-Tec> the unit only seems to respond to mouse movement some times
[15:02:13] <CaptHindsight> sounds pretty busy
[15:02:17] <furrywolf> sounds like it's swapping.
[15:02:20] <Aero-Tec> is there a shot cut to open a terminal?
[15:02:31] <furrywolf> you may have to reboot or magic sysrq it.
[15:02:36] <Aero-Tec> tryed ctl-alt-bs
[15:02:58] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/dana-60-locker-front-4x4-axle-with-matching-dana-70-locker-rear-axle-/281805615582 anyone need some crawler axles?
[15:03:17] <Aero-Tec> did not respond to it
[15:03:18] <furrywolf> if that didn't work, it's going to need forceful rebooting.
[15:03:56] <furrywolf> press and holt ALT, then press SYSRQ, r, e, i, s, u, b, one at a time, in that order, while still holding alt.
[15:04:02] <Aero-Tec> so not harm to HD is rebooted when heavy HD access?
[15:04:45] <furrywolf> what I just said, if it works on your box, will reboot reasonably safely.
[15:05:00] <furrywolf> if it's dead enough ctrl-alt-bs didn't do anything, you're not likely to get a clean reboot out of it.
[15:05:17] <Aero-Tec> so do I enter the , as well or just the letters?
[15:05:27] <furrywolf> just the letters
[15:05:28] <furrywolf> lol
[15:05:32] <Aero-Tec> ok
[15:06:04] <furrywolf> I've never tried it on linuxcnc's install. it can be enabled/disabled.
[15:09:55] <furrywolf> did it reboot? :)
[15:10:27] <Aero-Tec> got a black screen
[15:10:41] <Aero-Tec> the white arrow is showing
[15:10:49] <Aero-Tec> not moving
[15:10:59] <Aero-Tec> HD light is off
[15:11:26] <furrywolf> hrmm, that should have rebooted it, if it did anything. the b at the end is reboot...
[15:11:27] <Aero-Tec> not sure what is happening
[15:11:48] <furrywolf> might have to hard reboot it
[15:11:51] <Aero-Tec> went black pre b
[15:12:42] <renesis> finger to button for 4 seconds fix all the problems
[15:12:59] <Aero-Tec> lol
[15:13:14] <CaptHindsight> nah, unplug cord from wall for 1 minute
[15:13:23] <Aero-Tec> when I pushed power is showed the reboot screen for a sec
[15:13:27] <furrywolf> try doing the magic sysrq again
[15:13:30] <furrywolf> ah
[15:13:58] <renesis> its not finishing post?
[15:14:02] <Aero-Tec> now black screen
[15:14:39] <renesis> heh, do you have any usb flash drives in?
[15:14:40] <Aero-Tec> no HD light
[15:14:47] <Aero-Tec> black screen
[15:14:49] <furrywolf> do a full power off
[15:14:59] <furrywolf> unplug power / remove batteries if laptop
[15:15:01] <Aero-Tec> no USB
[15:15:06] <Contract_Pilot> Car parts? http://www.ebay.com/itm/181878688624
[15:15:59] <furrywolf> not something I need.
[15:16:09] <CaptHindsight> yes, with ball joints the press in and out
[15:16:13] * furrywolf is on ebay looking for a new magic wand
[15:16:28] <Sync> does any body have some spindle bearings oxidizing around?
[15:16:34] <XXCoder> hogwart's wands store
[15:16:50] <Aero-Tec> cool
[15:16:57] <Aero-Tec> got it back
[15:17:00] <furrywolf> someone suggested one for my back.
[15:17:06] <Aero-Tec> the unplug did the trick
[15:17:07] <furrywolf> I didn't know people actually used them on muscles.
[15:17:09] <furrywolf> lol
[15:17:20] <Contract_Pilot> I need a measa 7I76 and 5I25 Combo have trading stock or cash.
[15:17:24] * furrywolf always thought "sore muscles" was just a euphamism...
[15:18:07] <Aero-Tec> can you not get them from the company?
[15:18:23] <Contract_Pilot> out of stock for about 4 weeks
[15:18:37] <Contract_Pilot> on the 7I76's
[15:18:38] <furrywolf> Aero-Tec: mesa has been having a minion shortage, and is behind on finishing boards.
[15:18:49] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=884395
[15:18:59] <Contract_Pilot> AK-47 stuff?
[15:19:57] <Contract_Pilot> 30rd mags have about 2,00o of them http://airplanemanuals.com/ak-kits/bulk%20mags.jpg
[15:20:00] <CaptHindsight> Contract_Pilot: those are for 68-72 Chevelle
[15:20:23] <Contract_Pilot> Yep.
[15:20:24] <furrywolf> Contract_Pilot: in soviet california, you go to jail for owning one of those.
[15:20:41] <Contract_Pilot> No for inserting them in the rifle.
[15:20:53] <furrywolf> if it holds more than 10 rounds, you're obviously a terrorist.
[15:21:27] <furrywolf> owning a high capacity mag means you want to shoot up grade schools.
[15:21:50] <CaptHindsight> what if you're just a lousy shot?
[15:22:26] <furrywolf> then you need to tell the puppies and bunnies to hold still. because if you have one, you must be evil.
[15:22:29] <Wolf_> the peoples republic of maryland is great, 10rd mag law, but only means you can’t buy/sell/transfer inside the state
[15:23:00] <CaptHindsight> discriminates against people with disabilities
[15:23:12] <moorbo> what kind of mags are you guys talking about
[15:23:14] <moorbo> machine guns?
[15:23:18] <Contract_Pilot> AK mags
[15:23:20] <moorbo> or semi autos?
[15:23:21] <moorbo> ah
[15:23:35] <Wolf_> ak/ar/everything else
[15:23:39] <moorbo> whats the point of owing a machine gun
[15:23:46] <moorbo> in your guys view
[15:23:48] <Wolf_> there is none
[15:24:15] <_methods> burning lots of cash?
[15:24:15] <Wolf_> other then the whole shall not be infringed thing
[15:24:15] <furrywolf> self-defense
[15:24:26] <moorbo> from
[15:24:29] <Aero-Tec> mags have nothing to do with full or semi auto
[15:24:34] <_methods> getting blisters on your thumb linking ammo?
[15:24:40] <CaptHindsight> bullets should be $1k ea
[15:24:41] <Aero-Tec> same mag for both
[15:24:42] <Wolf_> 3rd burst IMO
[15:24:45] <ssi> what's the point of owning anything?
[15:24:48] <moorbo> Aero-Tec: i was trying to figure out just what gun was being talking about
[15:24:55] <Contract_Pilot> each box has 75 ak mags http://stevenrhine.com/Mags/ak%20mags%20round%202.jpg
[15:25:11] <_methods> oh i thought you were talkin about a real machine gun
[15:25:13] <_methods> like belt fed
[15:25:18] <Connor> Contract_Pilot: That your G0704?
[15:25:22] <CaptHindsight> well the tax should be $1k ea to pay for wars overseas
[15:25:27] <_methods> not some pussy ass magazine crap
[15:25:34] <ssi> _methods: I have a buddy that inherited like fifteen honest-to-god hughes amendment machine guns from his dad
[15:25:43] <ssi> couple of 1919s, an M2, bunch of other shit
[15:25:49] <_methods> wow
[15:25:50] <Wolf_> $$$
[15:25:55] <ssi> yeah like a half million worth
[15:25:57] <_methods> m2 is da heater
[15:26:08] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, so i got trading stock.
[15:26:09] <_methods> the great equalizer
[15:26:18] <Connor> Contract_Pilot: Looks like you have scales on it.
[15:26:18] * furrywolf hides the browning 1919 from _methods
[15:26:42] <Contract_Pilot> On my G0704 yep next CNC project.
[15:26:59] <Connor> Your on CNCZone too ? right ?
[15:27:17] <Contract_Pilot> yep.
[15:27:21] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Arizona-G0704-CNC-Brackets.jpg
[15:27:40] <Contract_Pilot> http://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/G0704-Conversion-Parts-Parts-1.jpg
[15:28:14] <_methods> ssi: you should have asked him for the m2's to mount on one of your planes
[15:28:45] <furrywolf> if you're mounting on a plane, get a minigun. :P
[15:28:55] <ssi> _methods: he had it mounted on his golf cart for awhile :D
[15:29:13] <ssi> also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmln5aChX0s
[15:29:15] <_methods> ah nice
[15:29:55] <_methods> pew pew
[15:30:25] <furrywolf> I've always thought it would be a good waste of a weekend to build a .22lr minigun clone...
[15:30:35] <Connor> Contract_Pilot: Yup. seen that kit.. I would have went with the other ball screws and double nuts..
[15:30:51] <Connor> are those nema 32's ?
[15:31:15] <Contract_Pilot> Nema 23
[15:31:24] <Connor> Hmm.. shorter than mine...
[15:31:33] <furrywolf> even with .22lr, plinking would still be pretty expensive at that rate of fire.
[15:31:35] <Contract_Pilot> only 280oz
[15:31:54] <Contract_Pilot> Could use a nema 34 for the z axis.
[15:32:09] <Connor> I'm using 5xx Oz in ones.. don't remember the exact number..
[15:32:15] <Connor> been a while..
[15:32:25] <Contract_Pilot> yea, the 570's
[15:34:00] <Contract_Pilot> thinking 900 or 1200 for the z or is that overkill.
[15:36:02] <Contract_Pilot> Motors for X & Y http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Stepper_Motors_-z-_Cables/STP-MTRH-23079
[15:37:21] <Connor> Yea.. I'm doing 5Amp 570's all the way arround.
[15:37:22] <Connor> around.
[15:38:06] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-23/nema-23-three_eighths-inch-dual-shaft-with-a-flat-570-oz-in
[15:39:43] <Contract_Pilot> So anyone have a nema 34 thay want to trade?
[15:40:22] <Contract_Pilot> I do not like the double shaft.
[15:40:51] <Connor> I put covers on mine..
[15:40:58] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I WISH my motors and drivers for my lathe were that cheap ;)
[15:42:26] <Connor> Contract_Pilot: http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_04_09_14_02.jpg
[15:43:05] <PetefromTn_> man that looks SO much like my old enclosure only with a much nicer surround and doors
[15:43:13] <Contract_Pilot> nice.
[15:44:13] <enleth> FYI 5Hz is the optimal VFD frequency to polish a rusted mill motor shaft
[15:44:19] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: looks like its mde from extruded stuff
[15:44:55] <Connor> 15mm extruded stuff like 80x20 only from misumi.
[15:45:04] <enleth> fast enough to take rust off, slow enough to be safe.
[15:45:35] <XXCoder> nice http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_04_09_14_03.jpg
[15:45:42] <XXCoder> wires in without coolant out
[15:47:00] <Connor> Yup.
[15:47:29] <Connor> I didn't glue it yet either.. not sure I'm going too..
[15:48:14] <Connor> Right now everything is torn apart. When my life calms back down.. I need to get some sh!t done! :)
[15:49:31] <furrywolf> I need to get a lot of stuff done, but my back is now useless.
[15:50:09] <Connor> My little shop is a disaster.. I have tools in my office overflowing... The mill is all torn down..
[15:50:50] <furrywolf> I don't have a shop.
[15:50:55] <Connor> I was in the middle of re-wiring and re-doing the mill when we found the Mold problem.. and never got back into doing stuff.
[15:52:19] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: we're big boys
[15:52:26] <zeeshan> we dont got time for toy motors!! :P
[15:52:27] <zeeshan> :D
[15:52:45] <PetefromTn_> hehe I hear that
[15:52:53] <Contract_Pilot> Yea, i am going to have my y axis in the back of the 704
[15:53:01] <PetefromTn_> trying to scrape up the coin for my lathe motors now
[15:57:08] <Contract_Pilot> I like to barter.
[15:57:46] <Contract_Pilot> Going to be a long 4 weeks hope i dont spend my mesa cash.
[15:58:04] <Connor> Contract_Pilot: I originally wanted to do that. but.. came to the conclusion that front mount is better in my case.. I can push the mill against the wall.. and I still have the space up front used because of the overhang of the vise and table and chip tray.. so front mounted Y works just fine.
[16:01:43] <ssi> I did mine on the back
[16:03:53] <Connor> Again, limited space.. trying to keep the footprint as small as possible.
[16:03:59] <Simonious> gcode?
[16:04:12] <MacGalempsy> running a double shaft nema leaves room for an encoder :)
[16:04:16] <ssi> Connor: I'm trying to find the picture of mine... the motor actually tucks under the table
[16:04:20] <ssi> so I have minimal footprint on it
[16:04:24] <Simonious> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode.html where should I be looking at gcodes for reference? I tried here, but it seems to be missing some..
[16:04:39] <Connor> ssi: OKay. I know what your talking about.. you used belt drive not direct
[16:04:43] <ssi> correct
[16:04:48] <ssi> cause it's servo, and they're 6000rpm motors
[16:04:53] <ssi> 3:1 reduction
[16:04:54] <MacGalempsy> Connor: there are a few different g-codes
[16:04:55] <Connor> MacGalempsy: Which is almost useless with Steppers..
[16:05:18] <MacGalempsy> Connor: i i disagree. have you seen repeatability on steppers? they mis
[16:05:20] <Connor> MacGalempsy: HUh? I think that was for Simonious
[16:05:36] <MacGalempsy> Connor: oh, yeah
[16:05:55] <MacGalempsy> and you wouldnt even need that expensive of an encoder
[16:06:32] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKLi5haCMAIynMD.jpg:large
[16:06:33] <ssi> BAM
[16:06:36] <Connor> MacGalempsy: Only thing you get when using encoder on stepper is a fault if miss step.. unless you employee a higher end stepper with encode and driver that is closed loop to the driver..
[16:07:04] <Connor> ssi: Where did you get that motor/servo ?
[16:07:07] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKGFA46CQAA-7-2.jpg:large
[16:07:08] <ssi> ebay
[16:07:08] <MacGalempsy> Connor: closed loop is what i was getting at
[16:07:28] <MacGalempsy> now thats a good looking servo
[16:07:37] <PetefromTn_> is that a PLASTIC GEAR!!!!!!
[16:07:41] <ssi> YEP
[16:07:45] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[16:07:48] <MacGalempsy> lol. thats what i was just looking at
[16:07:53] <MacGalempsy> 6:1?
[16:07:59] <ssi> 3:1 I believe
[16:08:02] <ssi> maybe it's 5:1
[16:08:04] <ssi> don't remember
[16:08:20] <MacGalempsy> project one, machine aluminum gear
[16:08:36] <ssi> Z mount: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKM8TVgCMAE_YeB.jpg:large
[16:08:54] <ssi> X mount: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKR1ZaVCcAAQ_7t.jpg:large
[16:09:05] <MacGalempsy> got a full machine picture?
[16:09:14] <ssi> don't think so
[16:09:18] <ssi> plus it's not done :)
[16:09:22] * ssi doesn't finish anything
[16:09:25] <PetefromTn_> plasma cut steel brackets FTW
[16:09:29] <ssi> PetefromTn_: :D
[16:09:41] <ssi> right up there with my plasma cut encoder wheel on my g0602
[16:09:41] <ssi> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/205204_655375525742_5631970_n.jpg?oh=63e7964d3253d83dab8db84fbb35eac3&oe=56924121
[16:10:13] <skunkworks> That works!
[16:10:20] <PetefromTn_> man I could use that damn CNC plasma cutter around here nowadays
[16:10:34] <ssi> PetefromTn_: make me an offer :D
[16:10:45] <PetefromTn_> hehehe
[16:11:00] <PetefromTn_> I'll be your bestest friend!!!
[16:11:07] <ssi> you're not already?!
[16:11:13] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah DAMN
[16:11:15] <MacGalempsy> hahaha.
[16:12:42] <Connor> I saw a video the other day where a guy had mounted a arm onto his CNC machine.. at the end of it was a plasma cutter.. I'm not sure how it was attached.. but.. it was kinda nea..
[16:12:43] <Connor> neat
[16:13:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have a friend with that setup
[16:13:17] <ssi> ok I screwed up
[16:13:20] <ssi> I should have left an hour ago
[16:13:34] <ssi> time to go pollute my way home in my evil illegal death mobile
[16:13:34] <Connor> I guess it's bolted to the table.. but.. how is the Z handled?
[16:15:48] <MacGalempsy> finally those jokers are shipping my rear spoiler. its only been a month!
[16:15:52] <Simonious> ah ha, fusion 360 does: G53 G0 Z0. Before it's first rapid move and I really feel like something is missing after that '.' since I'm zeroing to the top of the work.. everything else observes the offset defined in the CAM settings..
[16:15:53] <Connor> dang it.. I can't ind the video
[16:16:16] <MacGalempsy> Simonious: are you enjoying fusion 360?
[16:16:54] <Simonious> MacGalempsy: It's the best option I've come across so far that is free. It's acceptable. I *think* I like CAMBAM a little better, but CAMBAM really struggles with 3D stuff, so rather than use two tools, I'm using F360 for now.
[16:17:34] <MacGalempsy> I have been wondering about thiat. have you heard anything about when the 4th/5th axis version of Ultimate will be available?
[16:18:08] <Simonious> I haven't.. I've looked only a tiny bit though. If I had a 4th axis, I'd probably just swap out the X or Y and run the rotary as that 3rd axis..
[16:19:00] <MacGalempsy> does it support rotation on one of the 3 axis?
[16:19:42] <Simonious> Not that I've seen, so.. you'd either be cutting a flat into round.. which is okay for some things or you'd have to do a deformation in the model before generating the gcode - I'd really like to be wrong on this, anybody?
[16:19:47] <Contract_Pilot> hate it when you have to change a password on a dir because you tell someone do not give it out.
[16:19:53] <Contract_Pilot> then they do!
[16:20:01] <MacGalempsy> ha
[16:20:18] <SpeedEvil> Contract_Pilot: So your nudes leaked?
[16:20:22] <Contract_Pilot> I know path pilot is popular.
[16:20:55] <Contract_Pilot> If they want to share make a torrent. dont suck up my band with!
[16:21:53] <Contract_Pilot> SSI your g0704 looks intresting.
[16:26:48] <Deejay> gn8
[16:48:23] <furrywolf> what's the easiest way to build a >200A locking contactor/relay? that is, one that you open/close electrically, but it does not require power to hold position. locking relays are common, but not of that size...
[16:50:20] <furrywolf> or should I just use a switch and a "don't turn on now" light? :)
[16:51:19] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: volts?
[16:51:58] <SpeedEvil> I suspect beeg FET
[16:52:07] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-latching-relay-Remote-control-Smart-meter-relays-Anti-interference-80A-/181533739763 or a few of those in parallel... suspiciously cheap.
[16:52:36] <SpeedEvil> you mean one that will turn on/off only when load is not active?
[16:53:18] <furrywolf> ... is that what I said? no, no it's not. :P
[16:53:42] <furrywolf> I want a locking/latching relay of substantial size. it's opened or closed electrically, but maintains that position after power is removed.
[16:53:56] <SpeedEvil> you can't use multiple relays in parallel switching under loa
[16:53:57] <SpeedEvil> d
[16:54:00] <furrywolf> so you don't need to waste power to hold it on for long periods of time.
[16:54:01] <SpeedEvil> as one always goes first
[16:54:13] <furrywolf> it won't be switched under load, fortunately. it'll just have to handle lots of load.
[16:54:35] <furrywolf> I'm thinking of adding an ultracapacitor bank to my solar system, to prevent voltage dips during motor starting.
[16:54:58] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:55:02] <furrywolf> it can only be paralleled with the batteries when the voltage is under a certain amount that makes it not like dead shorting something.
[16:55:04] <SpeedEvil> but you want an isolator relay
[16:55:28] <furrywolf> I can either do it with a fancy relay, or just have a "warning: more than 1V difference!" light next to a switch.
[16:55:36] <furrywolf> the light might be easier. :)
[16:56:47] <SpeedEvil> Or a relay connected to the button that turns on if >1V difference and disconnects the motor drive to the power relay
[16:56:53] <furrywolf> I'm having internal resistance issues with my lead-acid, and I've heard my NiFe, if I ever get them set up, will be even worse.
[16:56:59] <SpeedEvil> ah
[16:57:38] <SpeedEvil> That relay does look usable.
[16:57:42] <furrywolf> those chinese relays sure are cheap though, and even have built-in current shunts.
[16:57:57] <SpeedEvil> Of course, with your luck, the contacts are going to be made out of Kraft slices.
[16:58:12] <furrywolf> entirely possible.
[16:58:43] <furrywolf> why does it say 5v-9v in the description, and 9v-20v on the side of the relay? fucking china.
[16:59:11] <SpeedEvil> how does it work?
[16:59:20] <furrywolf> it also comes with a "resistance diode".
[16:59:39] <furrywolf> looks like it just runs the motor until it stalls.
[16:59:41] <Simonious> alright.. I'm generating gcode for linuxcnc (duh..) using F360 and really early on in the gcode I see a line: N20 G53 G0 Z0. then it dinks around a bit and the next move seen is: N55 G0 X33.8512 Y41.0976 Assuming I'm zeroing to the top of the stock does anyone sense a problem? Full output here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1c6ylzzyx1ijw0x/2%20of%207%20%28dowels%29.ngc?dl=0
[17:01:10] <MacGalempsy> that looks like you are rapiding up to the Z0. why not use g54?
[17:02:28] <furrywolf> I might just go with a switch and a warning light.
[17:02:29] <Simonious> MacGalempsy: I don't think it's up to me, is it?
[17:02:42] <furrywolf> as shiny as an automatic controller would be, a comparator and an led is a lot less work. :P
[17:03:29] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I literally just mean a 1V coil relay
[17:04:02] <furrywolf> ... then what happens when there's 24V difference? :P
[17:04:19] <SpeedEvil> It gets very warm if you continue pressing teh button
[17:04:25] <furrywolf> lol
[17:04:30] <Tom_itx> G53 is machine coordinates if that's what you want
[17:04:38] <furrywolf> a comparator, a couple resistors, a couple diodes, and an led... simpler.
[17:04:50] <MacGalempsy> interesting, the class I am taking uses this book. http://stepper3.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=130
[17:04:52] <Tom_itx> G28 will also send Z to 0
[17:04:56] <Tom_itx> G28 Z0
[17:05:10] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Or just two meters
[17:05:28] <MacGalempsy> the strange part is the books are like 250 and the class is 500, but the book comes with the class
[17:06:01] <furrywolf> one voltage difference meter is one fewer than two meters. :P
[17:06:55] <PetefromTn_> crazy what books go for in schools
[17:07:14] <furrywolf> they know you don't have a choice.
[17:07:22] <PetefromTn_> I used to use G28 but now I use G53 G0
[17:07:52] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf They stick it to you as hard as possible whenever possible the bastards....but of course that is just my humble opinion heh
[17:08:48] <MacGalempsy> I had a music course early in college and the book was like $35. however, when you looked in the back, there had to be over 500 universities that all used that book
[17:09:37] <MacGalempsy> the auto would make about $8million per sememster if 500 kids at each school had to ge tthat book
[17:09:46] <MacGalempsy> author*
[17:10:26] <furrywolf> heh
[17:10:41] <SpeedEvil> yes. Because authors get 100% of the revenue
[17:11:22] <JesusAlos> hi all
[17:11:38] <furrywolf> more like the author gets $500k, expenses are $500k, kickbacks to school officials are $1m, and $6m goes in the publisher's pocket.
[17:11:38] <MacGalempsy> well guys, im off to class. see yall laters
[17:12:02] <MacGalempsy> 500k twice a year is better than nothin!
[17:14:08] <JesusAlos> I already configurated a new 4th machine
[17:14:31] <JesusAlos> but the external E-stop don't run
[17:15:04] <JesusAlos> and the pin arrybe ok to axis
[17:15:11] <JesusAlos> arrive ok
[17:16:17] <JesusAlos> I use that line:net estop-ext <= parport.0.pin-11-in-not
[17:16:17] <PetefromTn_> either way to take such advantage of students is utter bullshit IMNSHO
[17:17:38] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-750W-0-75KW-ac-servo-motor-servo-driver-2-39N-M-80ST-80ST-M02430-3000RPM-/151744210888?hash=item2354a8e7c8 two of these might work....
[17:50:19] <JesusAlos> by
[18:08:07] <jthornton> so if you wanted to store dxf entity information in C++ so you could sort it by start and end points would you use a vector?
[18:14:18] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/GfHQ9N2 pretty
[18:19:51] <PetefromTn_> jeez man that lathe video depressed me because my CNC lathe is DEED..
[18:24:08] <Tom_itx> jthornton way beyond the paygrade here :D
[18:24:22] <Tom_itx> what about storing the start point and end point in an array of such?
[18:26:35] <jthornton> well it is somewhat interesting that C++ want's to know the size of an array at compile time... but back to the problem, an arc has center and start and end angles and a line has start and end points
[18:26:43] <malcom2073> What's with the CNC porn on imgur lately?
[18:27:12] <jthornton> at least with a vector I can push more items into it... then I have to calculate the start and end points of the arc...
[18:27:28] <Tom_itx> jthornton, how do the entities differ in the dxf format file?
[18:27:32] <Tom_itx> and how is it stored there?
[18:27:54] <Tom_itx> compared to say... iges?
[18:27:59] <PetefromTn_> Hey man CNC Porn knows no limits!!
[18:28:04] <Tom_itx> iges is a standard format as well
[18:28:26] <jthornton> the dxf line has start and end points xyz and an arc has center xyz and start angle and end angle
[18:28:45] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: Certainly not in my browsing history it doesn't :P
[18:29:04] <malcom2073> Though I'm finding it harder and harder to find *new* youtube cnc porn that I've not seen before.
[18:29:54] <PetefromTn_> well ya better step up to the plate and MAKE YOUR OWN!!! ;)
[18:30:13] <malcom2073> I'm working on it, I have a 50lb package coming tomorrow that will help
[18:30:36] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-750W-0-75KW-ac-servo-motor-servo-driver-2-39N-M-80ST-80ST-M02430-3000RPM-/151744210888?hash=item2354a8e7c8 Need 2 please
[18:31:13] <malcom2073> I have three (one possibly bad) 660kw DC servo drives I'm not using :P
[18:31:29] <malcom2073> erm
[18:31:30] <malcom2073> 660w
[18:31:32] <malcom2073> 0.66kw
[18:31:48] <PetefromTn_> got motors?
[18:31:59] <malcom2073> yeah
[18:32:11] <PetefromTn_> that motor in the ad is ideal for my Lathe
[18:32:13] <malcom2073> I'm replacing them with steppers on my cnc :-D
[18:32:22] <PetefromTn_> Good lord why?
[18:32:29] <malcom2073> Because money
[18:32:43] <PetefromTn_> what CNC is it?
[18:33:02] <malcom2073> It's a Clausing/Kindia FV-1 knee mill
[18:33:21] <malcom2073> Kondia*
[18:34:01] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand if you have drives and motors why would you want to go steppers?
[18:35:01] <malcom2073> Well one of the drives popped when I powered it on, hence the possibly bad, so that's $250, and I still need a mesa (with is backordered), which is $250, or I can pay $250 and get a set of steppers and be done (I already have a drive)
[18:35:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah but what will your performance be after that?
[18:35:36] <PetefromTn_> you will also be open loop no?
[18:36:14] <malcom2073> Oh yeah performance will suffer, but this is a home hobby machine
[18:36:38] <PetefromTn_> I can certainly appreciate that position.....BUT
[18:37:27] <PetefromTn_> if you spend a little more cash and keep the servo setup and maintain a closed loop system I think you will be MUCH happier in the end and if you ever want to sell the machine it will be much more desirable to potential customers
[18:37:36] <jthornton> I would never scrap servos that work for steppers
[18:48:24] * jthornton goes back to c++
[18:49:48] <jthornton> maybe I need a vector of structs
[18:56:50] <malcom2073> Yeah, I'm thinking of keeping the servo setup
[18:57:00] <malcom2073> Like, on a shelf
[18:57:06] <malcom2073> Maybe sometime I can afford good servo drives, and give it a shot
[18:57:16] <Sync> I'd just repair the drive
[18:57:25] <Sync> there is not much to go wrong in there
[18:57:31] <Sync> usually
[18:57:57] <PetefromTn_> or you can buy some of those like SSI got on ebay used..
[18:58:46] <malcom2073> Yeah it looks like a tantalum cap blew up when I discharged a floating ground
[18:58:54] <malcom2073> or however it's spelled
[18:59:29] <malcom2073> The big kicker wasnot wanting to spend $260 on a mesa setup, and still have the possibility of having to buy all new drives if all of them turned out to be bad (they sat in an enclosure outside for a year)
[18:59:59] <jthornton> a 1 1/2 volt battery can test the drives ...
[19:06:25] <malcom2073> I'm worried about them failing under load, I have no way of loading them longer term without a mesa and actually machining things
[19:06:56] <malcom2073> Anyway, servos are big, scary, and hard :P
[19:07:11] <malcom2073> So, steppers for now. Not making any permanent modifications to the machine, just adapter plates to allow it to run steppers
[19:07:50] <malcom2073> And I can always use large steppers elsewhere if I decide to go back to servos later, so no real harm done by doing so
[19:32:10] <Sync> well, you are not going back, I can guarantee you
[19:32:16] <Sync> just spend the money for the servos
[19:32:19] <Sync> you will not regret it
[19:34:37] <roycroft> and now volkswagen have admitted that they've been cheating on emissions controls world wide
[19:35:06] <roycroft> so please explain again how they were forced to do this because of too much regulation in the united states, and how our regulatory climate should be more like europe
[19:35:19] <Tom_itx> those crafty little buggers
[19:35:53] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, why not use a structure? C++ can still do things like C did.
[19:36:07] <Wolf_> I’m waiting for the ECU reflash, and for someone to make a new tuner flash for the vw..
[19:36:49] <Sync> roycroft: it's an old hat
[20:04:37] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/scanner-traffic-indicates/player/ heh, that's cute. probably as an excuse for not writing as many articles, they hooked a scanner up to the internet. lol
[20:07:10] <furrywolf> good thing we're backwoods types with analog radios rather than fancy trunking systems. :)
[20:28:04] <malcom2073> Lol
[20:51:13] <furrywolf> yay! I now own ebay ultracaps. paid a lot for them, but it's a nice module.
[20:54:31] <furrywolf> ... and I'd paste the url if my internet connection wasn't sucking so badly I can't load it.
[20:55:25] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Maxwell-boostcap-18-x-BCAP2600-144-Farad-48V-Ultracapacitor-BoostCap-battery-/221887154520
[21:01:22] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/5hLwo1B ;)
[21:02:07] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/s2WNfWg
[21:02:10] <furrywolf> now anodize them electric blue just to piss people off. :P
[21:02:34] <malcom2073> Nice PetefromTn_
[21:03:19] <PetefromTn_> two of them are gonna be black hopefully before the night is thru
[21:03:26] <PetefromTn_> thanks malcolm
[21:04:01] <PetefromTn_> they all look identical but they are actually all different LOL
[21:04:55] <furrywolf> intentionally or acidentally? :)
[21:05:15] <PetefromTn_> I need a new stereo for my Van and I was thinking of splurging a little on an in dash flip up DVD player...using the paypal from one of these babies!
[21:05:22] <PetefromTn_> Oh totally intentionally
[21:05:34] <PetefromTn_> the droop compensation angle is different on all of them.
[21:05:48] <PetefromTn_> One is 20, one is 16, one is 15 and the other is 5 MOA
[21:07:34] <Wolf_> moa mounts are cool
[21:07:55] <Wolf_> I have a 20 moa on one of my rifles
[21:10:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah they can help especially for airguns
[21:10:45] <Wolf_> mine is on a 300win mag :D
[21:11:03] <PetefromTn_> wow that is a good bit of droop for such a hot cartridge
[21:11:19] <Wolf_> at a grand they drop a good bit
[21:11:52] * furrywolf always figured that was the job of the 'scope, not of the rail design
[21:12:22] <Wolf_> it helps keep the scope mechanically centered
[21:14:35] <furrywolf> grrr. ebay has broken their javascript on the request total page, so it doesn't work.
[21:34:13] * furrywolf has never wanted video in a vehicle
[21:45:00] <Tom_itx> looks good PetefromTn_
[21:45:20] <PetefromTn_> thanks Tom~
[21:45:38] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf you obviously do not have kids and a minivan
[21:46:42] <PetefromTn_> or as I like to call it....the Uber Manly do anything fit everyone super cool badass ultimate utility vehicle!!!
[21:47:14] <Tom_itx> does it come in black?
[21:47:28] <PetefromTn_> what the rail or the van? :D
[21:47:34] <malcom2073> Heh I remember those commercials
[21:47:39] <Tom_itx> oh the rails of course
[21:47:51] <PetefromTn_> hehehe yeah it does actually
[21:48:14] <PetefromTn_> did you not see my black model pictures?
[21:48:27] <PetefromTn_> black anodized even
[21:48:35] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:48:45] <Tom_itx> just messin again..
[21:49:06] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[21:49:38] <furrywolf> I have a F350 Superduty XL extended van. it's like a minivan, but not mini. :)
[21:49:43] <furrywolf> seats 15...
[21:50:24] <PetefromTn_> would be even cooler with video
[21:51:27] <furrywolf> because if I'm sitting somewhere bored (pretty much never happens) I might suddenly decide to go obtain a video and watch it? heh
[21:52:37] <PetefromTn_> no man you are supposed to take your favorite videos with you silly of course
[21:54:01] * furrywolf has no videos
[21:54:20] <furrywolf> s/F350/E350
[22:30:22] <t12> coupler now done
[22:30:26] <t12> tool wobble gone
[22:30:31] <t12> success
[22:36:04] <furrywolf> John McAfee is running for president? LOL
[22:36:49] <furrywolf> having him for president would be... amusing? scary? he's only pretty much insane.
[22:37:08] <furrywolf> sorry, "eccentric" :P
[23:30:08] <MacGalempsy> yo im back