#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-15

[02:23:30] <Deejay> moin
[04:13:48] <ganzuul> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-3-5x-Dental-Lab-Surgical-Loupes-Magnifier-Glasses-blue-color-LED-Headlight/32342624743.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.20.sXWvva&ws_ab_test=201407_2,201444_6_3_2_1_5_4,201409_5
[04:13:52] <ganzuul> hmm
[04:28:33] <MattyMatt> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Watch-Repair-Magnifier-Loupe-20X-Glasses-With-LED-Light/851226786.html just avoid this kind. you can't look at the same place with both eyes
[04:29:57] <MattyMatt> single 5" lens works for me. big enough to look in stereo right through
[04:31:12] <ganzuul> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-6-0x-6x-Binocular-Dental-Loupes-Surgical-Medical-Dentistry-Frame-420mm-/201065515404?hash=item2ed070498c
[04:31:16] <ganzuul> <3
[04:39:43] <MacGalempsy> hello
[04:46:34] <malcom2073> Hello
[04:53:18] <MacGalempsy> anyone making anytthing good?
[04:56:19] <malcom2073> Mistakes
[04:56:20] <malcom2073> ?
[04:56:21] <malcom2073> :P
[04:58:06] <XXCoder> Alive, I am!
[05:00:32] <malcom2073> Morning
[05:00:45] <XXCoder> night. whats I miss heh
[05:08:32] <XXCoder> exactly nothing happened I guess. lol
[05:14:24] <enleth> Do you know anyone still using a Heidenhain TNC 131 on their machine?
[05:15:18] <enleth> As it turns out, there are two firmware versions and I need the other one for an experiment.
[05:16:07] <XXCoder> no downloads?
[05:16:44] <enleth> Will try mailing Heidenhain support too, they actually answer questions about 35 years old products asked by a second hand owner.
[05:16:56] <enleth> XXCoder: the control is from 1981
[05:17:15] <archivist> time for a retrofit
[05:17:17] <XXCoder> hope you will have luck with that
[05:18:00] <enleth> archivist: I will, but I'd like to keep the TNC as well
[05:18:37] <enleth> archivist: the other firmware version is better suited for that
[05:19:00] <enleth> It's a grear DRO and looks cool.
[05:19:18] <archivist> dunno which firmware you are talking about
[05:20:36] <enleth> archivist: the one with support for 3 servo drives. It still can't do diagonals or arcs, but knows how to use 3 separate analog outputs instead of switching one
[05:21:07] <enleth> I guess they couldn't fit both in the EPROM
[05:28:37] <ganzuul> Bleh... Not enough applicant to start the education. Have to try another school again. :(
[05:28:45] <ganzuul> ~s
[05:38:12] <malcom2073> Is it just me, or has cnczone seemed to have gotten worse in terms of posts being deleted/reorganized/etc? It seems that every topic I read, is either missing half the posts, or been merged with 5-6 other topics so the flow of information makes no sense at all
[05:40:12] <ganzuul> Don't you know? When you become a moderator they hand you your nazi badge and tell you to go nuts.
[05:43:45] <malcom2073> heh
[07:10:00] <ganzuul> ebay.de lists Ukraine as part of the EU. :3
[07:10:50] <ganzuul> Oh no wait, that Europa. duh
[07:54:50] <_methods> anyone know what you call these kinds of blocks with the 2 bearings?
[07:54:52] <_methods> http://imgur.com/a/PpJYj
[07:55:07] <_methods> i've tried searching positioner blocks, bearing blocks
[07:55:17] <_methods> shaft balance bearings
[07:55:25] <_methods> not getting any hits
[07:56:44] <_methods> hmm getting some hits from roller positioner
[08:09:22] <archivist> roller bearing v block
[08:20:57] <MattyMatt> keith fenner specials
[08:21:12] <SolarNRG> who is keith fenner?
[08:21:18] <MattyMatt> he made a bunch of kits v recently, you could probably still buy one
[08:21:33] <SolarNRG> if I lived in a country with a saner banking system yes
[08:21:50] <SolarNRG> what's so good about them?
[08:22:09] <MattyMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGRovItazXw
[08:22:31] <MattyMatt> ^ for _methods
[08:22:56] <SolarNRG> a lathing kit?
[08:23:07] <SolarNRG> suitable for machining stainless?
[08:24:08] <MattyMatt> a V roller block kit, weld it up and you can balance shafts like he does
[08:24:34] <SolarNRG> so useful for making marine propulsion components then?
[08:25:09] <_methods> ahhh thank you guys
[08:25:18] <_methods> yes v bearing roller block is the wurd
[08:28:28] <MattyMatt> https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=isch&q=roller+bearing+v+blocks
[08:29:14] <FinboySlick> Keith is a no-bullshit kinda guy ;)
[08:32:31] <_methods> i don't want to make them unless i have to
[08:32:37] <_methods> was trying to find them off the shelf
[08:33:09] <SolarNRG> MattyMatt, it looks like I could make all that with the scrap I got in my yard, a bit of grinding I could make all that real easy
[08:33:11] <CaptHindsight> explains why my search for "gravity assisted roller enhanced low friction metallic blocks" comes up with few or odd results
[08:33:19] <_methods> heheh
[08:33:32] <SolarNRG> I like this Keith Fenner guy actually
[08:33:45] <MattyMatt> mmm, scrap in a yard. I envy
[08:33:58] <SolarNRG> My kittens love my scrap
[08:35:14] <FinboySlick> SolarNRG: For some reason, that made me think of a kitten version of Mad Max.
[08:35:50] <SolarNRG> FinboySlick, you should see what happens when you open the back door, a hoard of rusty kittens charge at you
[08:36:14] <MattyMatt> tell joel veitch that idea
[08:38:17] <SolarNRG> the problem now is they are getting BIG
[08:38:25] <SolarNRG> and their numbers are increasing
[08:38:39] <SolarNRG> All because I refused to be part of a feline genocide program
[08:39:33] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: You had to remind me of him. Now my productivity is shot for the day.
[08:42:23] <lair82> pcw_home you around?
[08:43:09] <_methods> wow sausage at 100mph
[08:44:38] <FinboySlick> _methods: That sounds like you've search Joel Veitch too.
[08:44:43] <_methods> yeah lol
[08:45:24] <_methods> going to have to dedicate some more time to that site after work lol
[08:45:43] <FinboySlick> _methods: Hope you have a high tolerance for the absurd. Mr Weebls is another great one.
[08:45:57] * _methods is huge fan of the absurd
[08:46:49] <_methods> trump is running for president so since reality is absolutely absurd my entertainment must obviously become even more absurd to keep up with reality
[08:47:06] <_methods> rathergood will foot the bill lol
[08:49:14] <FinboySlick> _methods: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/other-toons/video/crabs.html *WARNING*, weebl is the king of making stupid songs stuck in your head for days
[08:49:40] <SolarNRG> badgers badgers? that guy?
[08:49:46] <FinboySlick> Yeah
[08:49:52] <_methods> wow
[08:49:55] <SolarNRG> mushroom mushroom
[08:50:03] <SolarNRG> snake snake, ahh it's a snake, oooh it's a snake
[08:50:15] <_methods> ah narwhal
[08:50:34] <FinboySlick> SolarNRG: And Kenya, and scampi.
[08:50:41] <FinboySlick> All magical wonders.
[08:51:26] <SolarNRG> salad fingers
[08:51:50] <FinboySlick> Salad fingers wasn't weebl, was it? It was pretty damn creepy.
[08:52:46] <SolarNRG> scary maze game
[08:53:11] <_methods> thx for derailing my roller bearing vblock search
[08:54:36] <FinboySlick> _methods: In a sense, this just brought you back to reality. That's what the Internet was really invented for: silly animations.
[08:54:47] <_methods> heheh
[08:54:48] <_methods> true
[08:55:29] <FinboySlick> Well, and porn but that could degenerate rather quickly.
[08:56:14] <_methods> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/09/15/new-prosthetic-arm-can-restore-the-sense-of-touch-darpa-claims/
[09:27:27] <ssi> morn
[09:28:16] <ganzuul> o/
[09:32:27] <renesis> _methods: darpa!
[09:32:39] <renesis> next step: wet wired mechs
[09:32:45] <renesis> stompstomp
[09:40:21] <pcw_home> lair82: yes
[09:47:29] <_methods> hah i guess they are bench inspection rollers
[09:47:58] <_methods> https://www.hoffmann-group.com/US/en/toolcrib/Metrology/Dial-indicators/Pair-of-bench-inspection-rollers/p/431705-
[09:48:22] <ssi> for inspecting shaft straightness?
[09:49:48] <_methods> yeah
[09:50:08] <_methods> they make bar and wire
[09:50:24] <_methods> they inspect the bar straightness after they draw it
[09:51:43] <ganzuul> http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_odkw=AISI+O-1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XWerkzeugstahl.TRS0&_nkw=Werkzeugstahl&_sacat=0
[09:51:50] <ganzuul> ~<3
[09:52:15] <ssi> mmmm, werkzeugstahl
[09:52:22] <ganzuul> 4140
[09:53:00] <_methods> bless you
[09:53:08] <ssi> I love working with 4000 series steels
[09:53:45] <ganzuul> I can afford these prices. :)
[10:24:37] <lair82> Good Morning pcw_home, I re-installed debian wheezy with a fresh download of the iso image, and started making some head way on getting uspace working, but a question I have is, when it comes to setting up the static ip for the 7i80, how do I modify the /etc/iptables/rules.v4, when it doesn't exist?
[10:31:52] <pcw_home> pretty sure you no longer need to mess with that as its set up automatically
[10:34:13] <pcw_home> that is if you just download the latest ISO and update to 2.7
[10:34:27] <lair82> Also, I will add it to the list of junk MB's, the Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+ paired with a AMD A4-6300 Richland Dual core cpu running Debian Wheezy 2.7.0 is showing a Max Jitter on a 1ms servo thread of 310,000
[10:34:52] <pcw_home> what kernel?
[10:35:04] <pcw_home> (RTAI or Preemt-RT)
[10:35:11] <lair82> yep, I downloaded it on friday, and installed it yesterday.
[10:35:20] <_methods> is that using onboard video?
[10:35:39] <lair82> It is running Preemt_RT
[10:35:57] <pcw_home> might try RTAI
[10:37:03] <lair82> Yes that was onboard, I tried like hell to get the vesa driver working, but could not even create the xorg.conf file with out a bunch of faults.
[10:37:20] <Wolf_> onboard vid is a killer
[10:37:27] <_methods> yeah
[10:37:37] <lair82> I need Preemt-Rt though for the 7i80 correct?
[10:37:45] <_methods> cheap discrete vid card will make most boards work just fine
[10:38:34] <pcw_home> Yeah Preemt-Rt only for our Ethernet cards
[10:38:59] <Wolf_> I’m running a AMD athlon 64 x2 3600+ w/ ECS GeForce6100SM-M motherboard, tossed a $20 ATI vid card in it and i’m under 15,000 easy in the jitters
[10:39:48] <lair82> Oh well, I bought a couple of those Asrock H97M Pro4 boards, so hopefully I don't need to worry about it.
[10:40:48] <lair82> What video card would be recommended? I could buy one to test these boards. Maybe I could use the bad boards for another machine later on.
[10:41:01] <pcw_home> for the PRO4 MBs with intel MAC theres a trick for better Ethernet real time performance
[10:41:02] <pcw_home> though it may not matter much at 1 KHz ( it does at 4 KHz... )
[10:41:08] <_methods> i normally just use old cards i have layin around
[10:45:36] <pcw_home> trick:
[10:45:38] <pcw_home> sudo ethtool -C ethN rx-usecs 0
[10:45:39] <pcw_home> where N is the real time Ethernet number
[10:46:31] <anomynous> whats the side diameter of threads that is measured with thread micrometer?
[10:46:40] <anomynous> +name
[10:46:54] <_methods> ?
[10:47:06] <_methods> thread pitch diameter?
[10:47:20] <_methods> i think that's what your asking
[10:47:26] <_methods> s/your/you're
[10:47:36] <anomynous> pitch diameter?
[10:47:44] <_methods> yes the thread pitch diameter
[10:47:57] <anomynous> the one thats in middle of the peak and valley ;D
[10:48:05] <_methods> that is what you're measuring when you use thread mics
[10:48:11] <anomynous> ok
[10:48:12] <_methods> yep that's thread pitch diameter
[10:48:12] <anomynous> thanks
[10:48:16] <_methods> np
[10:48:53] <lair82> I don't really have anything laying around, except a couple nice shiny Asrock paper weights now, hahahahaha
[10:49:17] <_methods> local computer shop nearby?
[10:49:28] <_methods> they might sell you some old ones
[10:49:30] <anomynous> why is it pitch diameter?
[10:49:33] <_methods> but you can buy new ones for like $20
[10:49:45] <lair82> So ethN would be what ever the port is that the 7i80 is connected to?
[10:49:53] <_methods> anomynous: because it's the diameter between the major and minor
[10:50:02] <_methods> the theoretical diameter of the threads
[10:50:44] <pcw_home> yes (often Eth0 or Eth1)
[10:50:58] <lair82> I don't mind mind buying new ones, I would rather buy new, cheaper to do that, than have a used one go bad 2 mths down the road, and have to wait a day for another one.
[10:51:10] <anomynous> but pitch is the forward of one full turn? ;D Or 1in/turns what does it have to do with pitch?
[10:51:48] <_methods> the pitch determines the distance between "valley and peak" of the threads
[10:52:30] <_methods> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread
[10:52:47] <Wolf_> http://specbolt.com/images/threadpitch.gif
[10:53:18] <anomynous> i have a chart book here with formulas of how different threads are defined ;D
[10:53:22] <lair82> Just put that in my notes, going to need it here this week, I have been running 2-2.5 khz on the servo thread, so I will be needing it.
[10:54:13] <_methods> that wiki explains pitch diameter thoroughly
[10:54:14] <anomynous> thanks Wolf_ and met
[10:54:19] <_methods> np
[10:57:16] <ganzuul> Hacksaws suck.
[10:57:46] <ganzuul> Especially for sawing microwave oven transformers in half
[10:58:10] <anomynous> why do you do that
[10:59:37] <ganzuul> Want a magnetic chuck.
[11:12:09] <anomynous> remember to turn it off when measuring so you wont magnetize your mitutoyo ;D "oops"
[11:12:55] <ganzuul> lol, good point
[11:13:06] <anomynous> i magnetized a cheap caliper ;D and measured chips thereafter
[11:15:19] <ganzuul> Aah, so that's a good reason to get them in nonmagnetic stainless..
[11:15:58] <ganzuul> I can make the transformer delaminate with the addition of a screwdriver and hammer. This is going to work! :D
[11:16:57] <Wolf_> just make a de-magnetizer as well
[11:17:31] <Wolf_> just don’t demagnetize digital calipers...
[11:19:38] <anomynous> how do i round "properly" in python? built-in round function rounds 5 sometimes up and sometimes down
[11:20:26] <archivist> see which rounding options are available and use the one you want
[11:20:57] <cradek> there are many kinds of rounding and you are right to put "properly" in quotes
[11:22:16] <anomynous> well, the built in didnt do what i wanted and i didnt see one in math so i asked ;)
[11:22:23] <cpresser> for 'real' math use numpy
[11:22:33] <cradek> and what did you want?
[11:23:15] <anomynous> round 5 up and below that downwards
[11:23:29] <cpresser> https://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#round
[11:23:30] <anomynous> well, i dont want to use numpy for this ;D
[11:23:34] <cradek> do you mean 0.5?
[11:24:00] <anomynous> for example... anything.12345 -> anything.1235
[11:24:23] <archivist> that is number of places
[11:24:50] <cradek> >>> print round(.12345,4)
[11:24:50] <cradek> 0.1235
[11:25:02] <anomynous> sure, read the doc
[11:25:07] <anomynous> it doesnt always do that
[11:25:39] <cradek> well I strongly suspect it does what the docs say
[11:25:52] <cpresser> if not, file a bug
[11:26:29] <pcw_home> look at the NOTE also
[11:26:35] <cradek> yep
[11:26:48] <cpresser> there is a 'decimal' python module. maybe that helps
[11:26:58] <pcw_home> yeah BCD FTW
[11:27:15] <anomynous> thanks cpresser
[11:27:34] <archivist> google "problems with floats" for more info
[11:27:43] <ganzuul> And done!
[11:27:47] <ganzuul> That was easy
[11:28:28] <ganzuul> Note to self: the welds in transformers are brittle and can be cracked with a bit of filing and chisel.
[11:29:46] <jdh> same for teeth
[11:30:19] <ganzuul> Also, now I have excellent shims for my 4-way non-qc toolpost.
[11:31:11] <ganzuul> jdh: The tooth welding fairy can fix you up.
[11:42:04] <Wolf_> great, I seem to have caught the “I want more precision measuring gear” bug…
[11:42:40] <ganzuul> Spent the better part of the day trying to source a surface plate...
[11:43:18] <CaptHindsight> ganzuul: are they difficult to find in your country?
[11:43:34] <ssi> Wolf_: man I went through a phase like that real bad last winter
[11:43:44] <ssi> spent like $2800 on ebay buying DTIs and height gauges and micrometers
[11:44:30] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are your parts any more accurate now?
[11:44:37] <ssi> sometimes
[11:45:10] <ssi> that was when I was doing the last rifle, and I spent a bunch of time making some precision bushings for the indicating mandrel I use for dialing in the receiver
[11:45:19] <ssi> hardened and ground tapered bushings out of O1 tool steel
[11:45:23] <Wolf_> yeah, grabbed a starter 196A1Z kit yesterday off eBay
[11:45:35] <Wolf_> starter/ Starrett
[11:45:40] <ssi> Wolf_: I have one of those sets
[11:45:53] <ssi> not exactly that one but similar
[11:45:59] <ssi> backpost indicator with the case and all the attachments
[11:47:42] <Wolf_> now there is a set of a digital mic, digital caliper and interapid DI on Facebook that I’ll really tempted to get
[11:48:20] <ssi> I'd really like to have an interapid dti
[11:48:42] <ssi> I also got myself one of the mitu solar calipers and a mitu digital .000005" 0-1" mic
[11:48:56] <ssi> that's too many zeros isn't it
[11:48:58] <ssi> half-tenths
[11:49:06] <ssi> .00005" :P
[11:49:27] <Wolf_> Mitutoyo 293-340 Digimatic Outside Micrometer, 0-1" Range, 0.00005"/0.001mm
[11:49:33] <ssi> yea
[11:49:47] <Wolf_> thats in that lot on facebook
[11:50:05] <ssi> that's not exactly the one I got
[11:50:10] <ssi> the one I got is also a quick-action one
[11:50:20] <ssi> .1" per turn or something like that
[11:51:57] <ssi> this one I think
[11:51:57] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-293-185-0-001mm-QuantuMike-Micrometer/dp/B002SG7QCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442334500&sr=8-1&keywords=mitutoyo+quantumike
[11:52:23] <skunkworks> ugh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFtvqpG_E8
[11:52:41] <ssi> the solar caliper is cool but if I keep it locked up in its case in the toolbox like I WANT to do, then it's never charged when I need it :P
[11:52:55] <ssi> skunkworks: :'(
[11:53:20] <Wolf_> I have a set of crap harbor junk misc (that I need to learn to use), and some no name DTI right now
[11:53:31] <Wolf_> misc/mic
[11:59:18] <archivist> Wolf_, that is contagious
[12:01:29] <skunkworks> wow - It looks like smoothstepper still only does index threading
[12:02:57] <andypugh> skunkworks: If you have a nice big, powerful lathe then that’s fine. You know, the sort of lathe that a Smoothstepper would be a really bad choice for :-)
[12:02:58] <archivist> gnats cock +- a smidgeon http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=matrix+micrometer
[12:03:10] <skunkworks> andypugh, right
[12:03:46] <skunkworks> removing resolvers for encoders... removing existing drives, Spindle dc motor for a vfd..
[12:04:14] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: when I ask "why Mach" the user most often says that they are only comfortable with Winders
[12:04:43] <archivist> winders are for looking through!
[12:05:01] <ssi> skunkworks: the resolvers are one of the best features of the HNC once you get them handled
[12:05:02] <skunkworks> wow - nice AMC Drive for the spindle he is removing
[12:05:04] <ssi> they're precise as shit
[12:05:34] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/no-backlash.png
[12:06:04] <cradek> my hnc, red line is resolver feedback on a cross slide reversal, white is a linear scale clamped to it
[12:06:52] <cradek> notice the scale is .001 inch/div
[12:07:19] <ssi> hah nice
[12:07:35] <archivist> but .001 is barn door :)
[12:07:38] <ssi> I dunno what the effective resolution of the resolvers is offhand
[12:07:50] <ssi> but the hnc's original control had a mode that was .000020" resolution
[12:08:26] <cradek> yeah I recall reading about superduper mode or something
[12:08:55] <ganzuul> CaptHindsight: Seems so.
[12:09:22] <andypugh> I couldn’t resist a comment that he should keep the resolvers
[12:09:35] <ganzuul> But I can apparently order one new from Germany.
[12:09:46] <ssi> the effective res of the resolver is gonna depend on the ballscrew lead (which I can't recall), the resolver/tach gear ratio (which I think is 5:1), and the sample depth of the mesa converters (which I think is 12 bit, but effectively 10 bit)
[12:10:40] <andypugh> The 7I49 has approximately 14 bits of resolution and 12 bits of absolute accuracy
[12:10:41] <Sync> interpolate the fuck out of them :D
[12:10:48] <ssi> andypugh: yeah that's right
[12:11:22] <ssi> whatever it is, I ran my hnc at .0001" precision constantly and never had issues with it
[12:11:58] <ssi> but by all means, rip out the resolvers and replace them with some 1000 line direct drive encoders, step/dir servo drives, and a smoothstepper
[12:12:33] <ssi> cause the only thing better than a CHNC4 is a really big heavy chinese-class retrofit
[12:13:45] <Sync> yeah, there is no real point in removing all that stuff
[12:14:22] <cradek> is this about a cnczone thread or something?
[12:14:27] <andypugh> I need to get my Mesa order in for the lathe. 7i37TA or 7i84? Looking at it, I think the 7i84 wins in most regards and the price is the same
[12:14:38] <ssi> cradek: vid skunkworks pasted
[12:14:54] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFtvqpG_E8
[12:15:21] <andypugh> Also, LinuxCNC is just better at Lathes, enough so to convince Tormach
[12:15:51] <andypugh> (Who, as a commercial company with no axe to grind might be considered impartial)
[12:15:59] <archivist> better at mills and hobbing machines too :)
[12:16:18] <andypugh> And etch-a-sketch, for that matter
[12:16:45] <andypugh> But, to be fair, Mach is perfectly adequate for a mill. It’s slightly inadequate for a lathe.
[12:16:51] <skunkworks> mach can probably do an etch-a-sketch...
[12:17:08] <cradek> soooo booooored
[12:17:45] <CaptHindsight> I imagine of someone were to write an Android CNC control that it would also become popular
[12:18:07] <skunkworks> andypugh, adequate if you want to put up with random moves, crashing, and vel/acc violations..
[12:18:24] <JT-Shop> lol
[12:18:24] <cradek> arrrgh he got a calculator to multiply 5x5
[12:18:49] <CaptHindsight> decimal 5 or hex 5?
[12:19:01] <cradek> can't watch
[12:19:05] <cradek> sorry
[12:19:05] <skunkworks> heh
[12:19:19] <ssi> I had to turn it off pretty quick
[12:19:25] <ssi> the guy annoyed me really bad
[12:19:36] <andypugh> Yeah, I should delete my comment. I am not sure I want to be answering his support questions.
[12:21:06] <JT-Shop> what are you looking at?
[12:26:29] <andypugh> My Yorkshire genes are struggling with pressing “checkout” in this $800 Mesa order.
[12:26:47] <Sync> doit
[12:28:04] <archivist> you know you want to
[12:28:20] <andypugh> Having to pay a further $260 tax when it gets here will hurt.
[12:28:31] <_methods> ouch
[12:28:45] <andypugh> No, I don’t want to. I want PCW to send me freebies as engineering samples :-)
[12:28:52] <archivist> duty and vat over here make stuff expensive
[12:29:35] <andypugh> But, as the guy said, you can’t always get what you want.
[12:29:50] <archivist> might have to join the mesa club when I retrofit the toy cmm
[12:30:19] <JT-Shop> I sent some stuff to a guy in Ireland and marked it a gift... wonder if he had to pay taxes on that
[12:30:43] <archivist> they dont check 100%
[12:31:21] <archivist> the low value stuff from hong kong and china often gets in free
[12:31:27] <JT-Shop> no invoice inside so how can they know
[12:31:43] <JT-Shop> send to a place called Harlow
[12:36:29] <roycroft> i've been ordering a fair amount of stuff from the uk and the opposite has been my situation
[12:36:58] <roycroft> prices are almost invariably quoted with gst included, so when i make the purchase i get what appears to be a substantial discount
[12:37:05] <roycroft> which more than offsets the cost of shipping
[12:37:45] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Harlow always reminds me of an exchange between lady Margot Asquith and Jean Harlow. Ms Harlow kept mispronouncing Lady Asquith’s name, prompting the marvellous “No, no, Jean, the “t” is silent, as in “Harlow””
[12:41:13] <andypugh> Well, order placed. Hopefully I won’t get to find out if USPS charges more than FedEx for the privillige of paying duty. I have had FedEx chage me £20 to adminster a duty charge of £2.
[12:42:54] <archivist> most of the carriage quotes recently have been so high I have not got anything from the US for a long time
[12:44:13] <andypugh> Fedex was $175 for this Mesa order, USPS was 10 days but “only” $60
[12:44:53] <pcw_home> Fedex and UPS are really crazy for international now
[12:44:55] <andypugh> Still cheaper than from eusurplus, though. And the stuff I want is out of stock with Joa(?)
[12:45:02] <JT-Shop> USPS seems to be the best way to ship to international places except Turkey
[12:45:29] <JT-Shop> wow how much did it weigh?
[12:45:40] <JT-Shop> under 4lbs is not expensive
[12:45:52] <anomynous> how is the drill size calculated for forming and cutting taps? ;D
[12:45:54] <andypugh> I would guess it was under 4lb.
[12:47:18] <andypugh> anomynous: For cutting taps and a 60 degree thread the drill size is one pitch less than the tap size. So M6 x 1mm is a 5mm tap. M30 x 3mm is a 27mm tap. This works for fractional inch sizes too, but you have to convert TPI to inches pitch.
[12:47:46] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, can you move geometry in SW from one plane to another for example to duplicate a pocket on the bottom side of a part?
[12:47:47] <andypugh> For a thread-forming tap, you need to look at the tap manufacturers data I think.
[12:47:47] <anomynous> thanks andy
[12:48:12] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: it's really inconsistent, I just sent one via Priority and it got there in 5 days and no custom problem
[12:48:32] <anomynous> andypugh, i dont want to ;D Theres too many
[12:48:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, if the value is less than like $10-20 they don't check much
[12:48:55] <JT-Shop> the $800 kicked it into Priority Mail
[12:49:11] <archivist> you can vary the drill to adjust the percentage engagement to make tapping easier or better thread strength
[12:49:26] <andypugh> Yeah, and I am pretty sure that there is no chance of the $800 shipment missing customs.
[12:49:52] <Sync> I once ordered some 19" stuff from the US
[12:49:57] <Sync> worth 80€
[12:50:22] <Sync> but shipping was 2xx and of course I have to pay VAT on shipping
[12:51:49] <CaptHindsight> what I've noticed that helps packages clear customs without problems is having local phone numbers, extra invoices and any MSDS sheets on the outside of the box
[12:51:49] <roycroft> what value does shipping add other than an opportunity to enhance the government revenue stream?
[12:52:52] <Tom_itx> like they really need a reason
[12:53:33] <andypugh> Sync: You pay duty on the value, then VAT on the value, the duty and the shipping. So you pay tax on a tax!
[12:54:02] <andypugh> (In the UK)
[12:54:04] <Tom_itx> be careful or you'll pay tax on that tax as well
[12:54:06] <Sync> no duty under 120€ value
[12:54:53] <Sync> but yeah I pay VAT on the duty and shipping and value
[12:54:58] <Sync> so tax on the tax
[12:55:58] <Tom_itx> starting to sound like a cell phone bill
[12:56:26] <andypugh> So, how to fasten a pulley to a servo shaft? A keyway might introduce slop. There isn’t room for a keyless bush (which would otherwise be my first choice). Does glue work?
[12:57:18] <Sync> sure
[12:57:22] <roycroft> and you thank king richard for the opportunity to pay the tax on the tax
[12:57:24] <archivist> there are some different keyless designs
[12:57:29] <Sync> loctite 603 andypugh
[12:57:32] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: and those vary depending on the carrier, we have service from different providers at the same rate per moth yet all the tax and mystery fees are quite different
[12:57:33] <roycroft> right before you steal his lupins
[12:58:08] <Tom_itx> andypugh, they have several clamping options: http://sdp-si.com/#slide-four
[12:58:12] <Sync> andypugh: shaft diameter and maximum possible outside diameter of clamping system
[12:58:15] <Sync> ?
[12:58:15] <archivist> andypugh, some taper lock methods dont tale up much diameter at all
[12:58:21] <archivist> take
[12:58:29] <andypugh> archivist: I have made my own in the past. The Mill has taper-bored pulleys and a split tapered sleeve pulled in by the threaded hole in the end of the servo shaft.
[12:58:38] <Tom_itx> andypugh, basically they ammount to a collet style grip on the shaft
[12:58:44] <andypugh> I can do that again, but was wondering about other ideas.
[12:58:51] <Tom_itx> ^^
[12:59:44] <andypugh> The SI Shaftlock looks a lot like the Fenner Trantorque.
[13:00:26] <Tom_itx> they have a few variations
[13:00:48] <Tom_itx> the nut with the tapered end, or the split collet with a tightening screw etc
[13:00:50] <andypugh> 19mm shaft. 28mm pulley boss.
[13:01:36] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VKGhqIl4Gw
[13:01:41] <ganzuul> OMG THE SUSPENSE
[13:01:49] <ganzuul> TEAR IT APART ALREADY
[13:02:03] <ganzuul> carefully...
[13:02:25] <ganzuul> wow, that sound...
[13:02:44] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you around?
[13:03:07] <archivist> andypugh, this is for larger bore to shaft https://ec.kamandirect.com/us/catalog/searchResults.jsp?catParent=Power%20Transmission&catParentId=20213&catName=Keyless%20Locking%20Bushing&catId=13039&typeSrch=2
[13:03:07] <Sync> andypugh: maedler COM-B
[13:03:39] <Sync> OR a hydraulic fastener
[13:03:47] <Sync> (shits expensive)
[13:04:56] <archivist> I have something similar to the SI one
[13:05:10] <Tom_itx> silver solder if you don't care about removing it
[13:05:46] <andypugh> Sync: Home-made Maedler pattern might work well.
[13:06:03] <Sync> just buy one?
[13:06:45] <archivist> andypugh, what size anyway?
[13:07:02] <andypugh> 27mm would be really rather tight, and I need 5Nm, not 200.
[13:07:27] <andypugh> 19mm shaft, pulley is 28mm boss, curently 8mm bore.
[13:08:43] <archivist> let me take a pic, a combination of Maedler direct in the pulley
[13:09:26] <andypugh> I probably can’t thread the pulley, incidentally, as it looks pretty hard.
[13:13:55] <Sync> http://www.maedler.de/Article/61591900 those are pretty awesome
[13:16:59] <andypugh> Sync: To just buy one I would need to find a vendor
[13:17:42] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pulley+taper
[13:17:47] <Sync> maedler will ship to the uk
[13:18:27] <anomynous> mäedler ;D
[13:18:33] <anomynous> mädler
[13:19:54] <andypugh> archivist: Pretty neat, but I haven’t even proved I can machine this sprocket yet. I think tapping might not be an option.
[13:20:29] <archivist> it is one I found at a model engineer show
[13:22:01] <anomynous> what sprocket are you doing?
[13:22:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.maedler.de/product/1643/verschweissen-von-zahnriemen a handy tool I should make
[13:22:52] <andypugh> It’s an experiment. I am going to use a motorcycle inverted-tooth camchain to drive a leadscrew.
[13:23:44] <CaptHindsight> are you expecting it to turn the screw?
[13:23:57] <andypugh> Yes
[13:24:02] <CaptHindsight> but seriously, what are you wondering about?
[13:25:02] <CaptHindsight> how low the lash can be?
[13:25:17] <andypugh> A cam drive needs to be zero lash
[13:25:31] <andypugh> Because the cams keep reversing the load
[13:26:52] <andypugh> I like the idea because it can then all run in an oil bath
[13:28:51] <CaptHindsight> 10,000 feet per minute should fast enough for most machining operations
[13:29:46] <anomynous> whats the idea behind inverted teeth ;)
[13:30:02] <Tom_itx> how can i draw a line at a specific angle in SW?
[13:30:18] <Tom_itx> i try changing it but it won't let me
[13:30:27] <andypugh> Gentle engagement. They call them “silent chains” too, which is a bit of a clue
[13:30:39] <anomynous> draw a line, fix a point somewhere and then use the dimensioning to assign it a degree
[13:30:51] <Wolf_Mill> need to make sure the end point isnt ref off something else
[13:31:02] <anomynous> if you choose two lines you can assign a an angle
[13:32:03] <anomynous> andypugh, thanks
[13:33:17] <andypugh> http://www.aventics.com/en/advantages-of-inverted-tooth-chains/
[13:34:18] <anomynous> its all advantages except price? :D
[13:35:00] <Sync> andypugh: just weld it to the shaft
[13:35:38] <andypugh> Sync: That would certainly work.
[13:35:51] <anomynous> 5Nm. Glue it
[13:35:56] <Tom_itx> thanks
[13:36:36] <Wolf_Mill> loctite shaft locking compound
[13:36:48] <andypugh> anomynous: I would, but I hate to assemble something that way unless I am sure I don’t want to disassemble it.
[13:36:58] <anomynous> you could heat it?
[13:37:03] <CaptHindsight> http://chain-guide.com/applications/1-transmission-chains.html
[13:37:09] <anomynous> its less heat than to disassemble a weld ;D
[13:40:23] <archivist> note 4, not for reversing
[13:41:22] <andypugh> archivist: That doesn’t make sense.
[13:41:42] <archivist> I know
[13:43:03] <andypugh> Part of the reason I want to be able to get the pully off is the possibility that I might decide to go with toothed belts after all.
[13:43:24] <archivist> but as with all systems having some clearance, I think it is a feature you will find, some stretch means on reverse it may hit in the wrong place
[13:44:16] <Sync> can't you just drill through the pulley and make a clamp ring?
[13:45:20] <archivist> there is a name that is used in clock work for hitting before the rolling point, a "feature" that loses a lot of power in a clock
[13:45:30] <andypugh> I haven’t proven that I can even machine it yet. The one on my bike has 16 teeth and has done 100,000 miles. I hate to think how many revs that is, and there is no sign of any wear.
[13:45:47] <andypugh> archivist: banking?
[13:45:53] <archivist> nah
[13:46:15] <anomynous> cant you make a key and use chewing gum?
[13:46:19] <anomynous> ;D
[13:46:24] <Sync> just use carbide tooling
[13:47:10] <andypugh> I need to get off IRC and start 3D modelling.
[13:47:32] <anomynous> i need to eat bread and go to sleep ;)
[13:47:49] <andypugh> So far: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mVzonRLOCpr_hU255ffTQNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[13:48:40] <andypugh> (Yes, that bed is accurate, it really is that crazy-massive)
[13:49:14] <skunkworks> ooh - pretty! first lathe vismach?
[13:49:51] <andypugh> I think I might as well, when it’s done.
[13:53:06] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: what's the rough size of it?
[13:53:27] <andypugh> It’s a 10x20” lathe
[13:53:56] <archivist> pic 3 includes a human
[13:54:36] <archivist> I was measuring some machine weights today for a giggle
[13:55:48] <archivist> is the base cast or welded
[13:56:11] <CaptHindsight> deciding on the construction of one similar with all air bearings
[13:56:44] <CaptHindsight> with polymer granite base
[14:07:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nanotechsys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/Nanotech-250UPLv2-Machine-Features-Rev-1014.pdf Industry leading 8 picometer linear feedback resolution.
[14:08:25] <SpeedEvil> For when you want to mill x-ray holographic lenses.
[14:09:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/hydrogen-atom-diameter-approximately-106-multiplied-10-10-m-defined-diameter-spherical-ele-q1439537
[14:11:35] <CaptHindsight> so 2 orders of magnitude better res that the diameter of a hydrogen atom
[14:11:45] <CaptHindsight> that/then
[14:12:02] <CaptHindsight> than even
[14:12:42] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered about proper LASER metrology
[14:12:59] <SpeedEvil> ~1um quadrature fast enough to track vibrations.
[14:15:31] <Sync> you can do sub-µ resolution with regular glass scales
[14:15:40] <Sync> no need for an interferometer
[14:18:18] <SpeedEvil> yes - but that needs a scale.
[14:19:07] <Sync> sure but it is cheap and easy to install
[14:19:49] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:19:57] <anomynous> aaa. so cool. i can click a button in pycharm to checkout a git branch and it pops up ;D and it has buttons for local and remote too. Perfect for illiterate people like me, who just cant rtfm for complicated stuff :D
[14:20:05] <SpeedEvil> But I was sort-of-meaning to also cheat with flex
[14:20:21] <SpeedEvil> Imagining a machine where it could live-position ignoring the bed flexing
[14:20:34] <SpeedEvil> probably usually silly
[14:21:43] <CaptHindsight> how often are your tolerances specified <1um and at a given temperature?
[14:22:52] <SpeedEvil> And yes - I don't care, but interferometry with 50um light isn't a thing.
[14:22:58] <SpeedEvil> or .1mm
[15:32:22] <Tom_itx> ok, after 7 lecture days the teacher told the students for extra credit to improve the 2nd test score they could draw this in CATIA: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/Part1.png
[15:32:33] <Tom_itx> which happens to be the final part of the course
[15:33:03] <Tom_itx> i think she's an arse
[15:33:33] <JT-Shop> be easy enough in SW dunno anything about catia
[15:33:36] <XXCoder> does that mean final test was done heh
[15:33:54] <Tom_itx> they haven't even started modeling parts yet
[15:34:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, just did it in SW :)
[15:34:18] <JT-Shop> lol, yea that's nuts
[15:34:20] <Tom_itx> they're very similar
[15:35:04] <Tom_itx> he got a 30 point cut because he radius'd 4 edges as a group instead of individually
[15:35:12] <Tom_itx> on another part
[15:36:08] <Tom_itx> oh and used pocket instead of hole to punch a part thru
[15:36:37] <Tom_itx> </rant>
[15:37:37] <Tom_itx> XXCoder, probably
[15:37:40] <Wolf_Mill> I can see the pocket vs hole, but 30 points for minimizing actions?
[15:37:52] <Tom_itx> that's kinda what i thought
[15:38:19] <Tom_itx> he learned more from me last night than the whole course so far
[15:38:30] <Tom_itx> and i've never used CATIA
[15:40:14] <PetefromTn_> whats wrong with radiusing multiple edges at once?
[15:40:35] <Tom_itx> nothing
[15:40:37] <Tom_itx> imo
[15:40:45] <Tom_itx> depends who you ask i guess
[15:40:55] <Wolf_Mill> pro way is to make the stuff over complex and unreadable
[15:40:56] <PetefromTn_> I hope not I do that all the time ;)
[15:41:19] <PetefromTn_> I have learned that you really need to do radiuses as close to last as possible tho
[15:41:26] <Tom_itx> could you draw that in 2 hrs?
[15:41:28] <PetefromTn_> radii
[15:41:29] <Tom_itx> or less
[15:41:43] <PetefromTn_> is Solidworks maybe heh
[15:41:50] <Tom_itx> with no experience?
[15:42:06] <PetefromTn_> probably not
[15:42:20] <Tom_itx> i may have a surprise for her :)
[15:42:27] <Tom_itx> we're holding class again tonight
[15:42:36] <furrywolf> I bet zee can do it in five minutes... and complain about its design after the FEA... :P
[15:44:26] <PetefromTn_> ^^
[15:44:47] <XXCoder> geez. maybe I should search OTHER cars if I need to find facts on my van
[15:44:56] <XXCoder> google always selects wrong vehicle types
[15:45:22] <PetefromTn_> today was fun at work ;)
[15:45:57] <furrywolf> my day at work was uninteresting, as always.
[15:46:10] <PetefromTn_> I got my new Tig Torch in and installed
[15:46:27] <PetefromTn_> and we received the Dogfab pyrex cups and consumables we ordered
[15:46:33] <PetefromTn_> got to play with those for awhile
[15:46:42] <PetefromTn_> they all kick ass pretty good
[15:46:56] <PetefromTn_> and we have a bunch of new interesting projects going on in the shop
[15:47:13] <furrywolf> I got to drive around delivering totes, like every single other day ever.
[15:47:22] <PetefromTn_> they got a pair of Toyota Supra's in that are getting built 2jZ motors in them
[15:47:33] <PetefromTn_> but the best part by far was this
[15:47:44] <PetefromTn_> I finally got to take a ride in one of these babies!!
[15:47:58] <PetefromTn_> They finished tuning a mild street built RX7
[15:48:05] <PetefromTn_> the car made just under 500WPM
[15:48:07] <PetefromTn_> WHP
[15:48:24] <PetefromTn_> after a short run down ride they asked me if I wanted to take a ride
[15:48:30] <PetefromTn_> I was like HELL YEAH!!
[15:48:40] <PetefromTn_> MAN that is some kinda quick car
[15:48:49] <PetefromTn_> it makes boost REAL fast
[15:48:58] <PetefromTn_> throws your ass back in the seat pretty damn hard
[15:49:20] <PetefromTn_> smoked the tires at over 70MPH LOL
[15:49:39] <PetefromTn_> what is amazing to me is that this was a rather TAME build LOL
[15:50:05] <furrywolf> fastest thing I've driven was a pantera with 550hp... it'd smoke the tires in any gear. and they were 14" wide, too.
[15:50:13] <PetefromTn_> they said I had a big grin on my face when I got out of the car
[15:50:15] <MacGalempsy> PetefromTn_: it sounds like you are loving the new JOB. His & Hers supras?
[15:50:20] <PetefromTn_> I would not doubt that...
[15:50:31] <furrywolf> Torque: A severely underrated antidepressant. :P
[15:50:32] <PetefromTn_> MacGalempsy Honestly the new job is very challenging to me
[15:50:53] <PetefromTn_> and I am struggling to get up to speed with thier needs
[15:51:01] <MacGalempsy> ha. thats the way it usually goes
[15:51:06] <PetefromTn_> but I have managed to get things they need done so far
[15:51:19] <PetefromTn_> my welds have improved substantially since I started
[15:51:46] <PetefromTn_> a lot of that is due to better equipment IE that new Snapon High Definition Auto dark helmet they got me
[15:51:59] <PetefromTn_> and the new torch and cups etc. it all really helps
[15:52:15] <PetefromTn_> but yeah overall I am pleased to be working with them
[15:52:41] <PetefromTn_> I hope it lasts awhile and I can help them make some cool stuff and I can make cash to help me get my CNC lathe operational.
[15:53:08] <furrywolf> I've been disgusted with all the snapon-branded welding equipment I've used, but I haven't used their helmets. the stuff I've used was just generic off-brand shit with a snap-on sticker and a 500% markup.
[15:53:10] <PetefromTn_> I also want to buy ANOTHER TIG unit for my shop preferably one with pulse and more freq adjustment
[15:53:37] <PetefromTn_> I have not used the equivalent Lincoln or miller helmets honestly
[15:53:54] <MacGalempsy> i know this sounds lame, but the auto welding helmets scare the crap out of me
[15:53:54] <furrywolf> I had a Jackson helmet I liked.
[15:53:57] <PetefromTn_> but I must say compared to the Kobalt one I had been using this one is like night and day
[15:54:02] <MacGalempsy> one small malfunction and bammo
[15:54:18] <furrywolf> MacGalempsy: there's no "bammo". you blink and let off the trigger. nothing bad happens.
[15:54:21] <PetefromTn_> MacGalempsy Honestly I agree with you
[15:54:38] <furrywolf> you don't get arc eye from a quarter second exposure. :P
[15:54:46] <PetefromTn_> but I have gotten in the habit of closing my eyes when I first hit the pedal for a moment
[15:54:51] <MacGalempsy> furrywolf: thats what they say...until you are blind
[15:55:06] <PetefromTn_> it is a good practice to get into IMHO
[15:55:19] <furrywolf> how often have you been around someone who's struck an arc while you were looking? it's no worse than that.
[15:56:02] <PetefromTn_> the Snapon helmet makes seeing everything MUCH easier and the maneuverability of the dogfab cup makes getting the torch where you need it an awful lot easier
[15:56:34] <PetefromTn_> I have been welding a LONG time
[15:56:48] <PetefromTn_> but to be honest this kind of thing is a pretty new experience to me
[15:57:18] * furrywolf suspects many people in here have been welding since pete was in diapers. :P
[15:57:21] <PetefromTn_> your welds need to not only be strong and do their job but they gotta LOOK good too and that is almost more important LOL
[15:57:38] <PetefromTn_> I am 45 now
[15:57:47] <furrywolf> yep. :P
[15:57:50] <PetefromTn_> and I started welding when I was about 15
[15:58:05] <furrywolf> you go to a machinist's gathering, and you'll be the young'un. :P
[15:58:08] <PetefromTn_> I only got the Tig unit about five years ago now tho
[15:58:20] <PetefromTn_> and I taught myself how to use it
[15:58:36] <PetefromTn_> for better or for worse ;)
[15:59:08] <furrywolf> I had a nice auto-dimming Jackson helmet, that worked great, until one of the batteries exploded and ate the PCB. then I got a harbor freight helmet, and someone stole it before I even got to test it.
[15:59:54] <PetefromTn_> so far they seem pleased with my work and progress...I suppose if they were not I would not be working there anymore LOL
[16:00:48] <Wolf_Mill> hmm, I just noticed that most of my inside/outside calipers are marked Athol Machine Co.
[16:01:04] <PetefromTn_> right now we are working on a custom 3 rotor Mazda RX7 build for two different cars
[16:01:25] <furrywolf> as long as they're not marked china or taiwan. :P
[16:01:28] <Wolf_Mill> I have driven a 3 rotor RX7
[16:01:36] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah
[16:01:38] <Wolf_Mill> for 40 feet
[16:01:40] <PetefromTn_> how was it?
[16:02:15] <PetefromTn_> I am working on machining some custom engine mounts for it right now
[16:02:38] <PetefromTn_> I also have to machine some exhaust flanges for it since they are apparently not available
[16:02:41] <Wolf_Mill> got yelled at by the vp of the company I worked for (car audio shop) cause the owner of the car warned to not bother to attempt to slip the clutch to get it in the shop
[16:03:20] <PetefromTn_> ya know its funny
[16:03:25] <PetefromTn_> that car I rode in today
[16:03:34] <PetefromTn_> was a 2 rotor with single turbo
[16:03:45] <furrywolf> someone in here had rotary exhaust flange cad models... don't remember who though.
[16:03:52] <PetefromTn_> and like I said it made just under 500 WHP on thier dynojet dyno
[16:04:13] <PetefromTn_> and they are builing a car with TWICE that much power now
[16:04:28] <PetefromTn_> I would be COMPLETELY happy with the 500WPH LOL
[16:04:48] <furrywolf> Wolf_: huh?
[16:04:48] <PetefromTn_> I mean it pulls so hard it is almost like anymore would be unusable really
[16:05:35] <DaViruz> furrywolf: i have for 13BT
[16:05:47] <Wolf_Mill> well shit, that means these inside/outside calipers are OLD, Athol Machine Co, existed until 1905 when it was aquired by Laroy Starrett
[16:05:49] <furrywolf> meh, forecast is a lot of rain.
[16:06:03] <furrywolf> brb, pulling stuff out of van.
[16:06:08] <PetefromTn_> the fast car that is getting the big motor tho has extended rear wheel arches and really wide wheels with sticker tires :D
[16:06:23] <DaViruz> PetefromTn_: *
[16:06:27] <PetefromTn_> supposedly it can handle it
[16:06:34] <PetefromTn_> DaViruz yeah man
[16:07:00] <DaViruz> http://ajden.se/flansar/13BT_grendrorsflans.DWG
[16:07:05] <DaViruz> i hope the link still works
[16:08:03] <PetefromTn_> Oh okay thanks man
[16:08:37] <PetefromTn_> actually I already have something similar from Zee as well as I have the flange they had been buying from an online supplier which is quite differently shaped.
[16:08:47] <DaViruz> oh.
[16:08:52] <DaViruz> http://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43490
[16:08:53] <PetefromTn_> I am going to adjust the drawing to match all three
[16:09:06] <DaViruz> lots of engine flanges in case you need something else at some point
[16:09:12] <DaViruz> turbo flanges too etc.
[16:09:55] <PetefromTn_> gonna have to translate that. what language is that?
[16:10:33] <DaViruz> swedish
[16:10:49] <PetefromTn_> OK
[16:11:04] <PetefromTn_> funny when I translated the page the links disappeared :D
[16:11:33] <DaViruz> most of the links should be self expanatory
[16:11:46] <PetefromTn_> yup
[16:11:48] <PetefromTn_> thanks man
[16:14:56] <furrywolf> meh. rain just started.
[16:15:29] <roycroft> were that we would get some of that rain
[16:15:53] <roycroft> as it has been all summer, what precipitation comes to my part of the world barely misses us to the north or to the south
[16:16:19] <furrywolf> consider yourself lucky.
[16:16:21] <roycroft> i could go for a good solid week of rain right now
[16:16:24] <roycroft> no, i do not
[16:16:25] <furrywolf> rain is one of the worst things ever.
[16:16:30] <roycroft> everything is dying
[16:16:49] <roycroft> my water bill is really high, even though our water is cheap and i'm barely irrigating
[16:16:59] <PetefromTn_> actually here all summer it was either hot as hell or pouring down rain
[16:17:04] <furrywolf> rain makes doing anything unpleasant or impossible... days and dark and dreary and even if you don't have to go out in it, you don't want to do anything...
[16:17:14] <roycroft> i cannot brew, because the reservoir levels are so low that tap water is warmer than i need to chill the beer
[16:17:29] <roycroft> i love the rainy season
[16:17:43] <XXCoder> I love the NOT summer.
[16:17:58] <roycroft> we have two seasons in my part of the world
[16:18:05] <roycroft> the rainy season, which is 9 months of the year
[16:18:13] <roycroft> and the tear up the roads season, which is the other three months
[16:18:14] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah I also managed to sell off my broken forced air heater this morning...
[16:18:25] <XXCoder> lol roycroft
[16:18:26] <PetefromTn_> got a few bucks and its outta my way now WOOHOO
[16:18:26] <furrywolf> and the foggy season the other three? at least that's what it is here.
[16:18:32] <furrywolf> and every year I get sicker of it.
[16:18:32] <roycroft> except of late it's been more like six months of rainy season and six months of tear up the roads
[16:18:37] <roycroft> yes, you get a lot more fog than we do
[16:18:44] <roycroft> and crescent city gets even more than you do
[16:18:51] <PetefromTn_> now I get to buy a bigger better one for the damn winter
[16:19:08] <PetefromTn_> was HOPING that I would be in Florida by now but oh well
[16:19:11] <roycroft> you should move to la
[16:19:19] <roycroft> yeah, florida would suit you too
[16:19:23] <PetefromTn_> Los Angeles>
[16:19:23] <furrywolf> no, crescent city gets less.
[16:19:36] <PetefromTn_> or Louisiana?
[16:19:39] <roycroft> well i don't live down there
[16:19:53] <roycroft> but my experience is that it's almost always foggy when i'm in crescent city
[16:19:57] <furrywolf> the mckinleyville airport is the foggiest airport in the country, third foggiest in the world. crescent city's doesn't even make the list, I think. ;)
[16:19:59] <furrywolf> :)
[16:20:07] <roycroft> and only foggy about half the time when i'm in the humboldt bay area
[16:20:16] <XXCoder> roycroft: city dont like you and always try ot hide itself from you
[16:20:18] <XXCoder> ;)
[16:20:27] <Wolf_Mill> Some old tools? http://i.imgur.com/GRfkcl7.jpg
[16:20:38] <roycroft> my recent trip was typical
[16:20:47] <roycroft> in brookings, where i was hanging out, it was sunny and warm
[16:20:56] <roycroft> crescent city, just south of there, was cool and foggy
[16:21:12] <roycroft> the two towns are about 20 minutes apart, and both right on the coast
[16:21:31] <XXCoder> thats still not record temperate difference
[16:21:40] <XXCoder> record is 50 degree in a foot
[16:21:51] <roycroft> then i leave crescent city, and the rest of the way through del norte county is sunny
[16:22:03] <roycroft> when i hit humboldt county it often starts getting foggy and cool again
[16:22:44] <furrywolf> sounds about right.
[16:23:02] <furrywolf> but, as I said, our airport out-fogs crescent city's. :)
[16:23:18] <roycroft> i won't dispute that
[16:23:30] <roycroft> my observations are strictly anecdotal
[16:24:03] <furrywolf> ever see photos of FIDO at the airport here?
[16:27:31] <furrywolf> hrmm, they seem to have vanished online, or become hard to find.
[16:28:25] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Investigation_and_Dispersal_Operation there's a generic article on it. they picked the airport here to test it, due to the steady supply of fog. :)
[16:28:38] <furrywolf> also did a bunch of ILS research here for the same reason.
[16:29:33] <furrywolf> https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19471215&id=71wbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GU0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=2396,5616617&hl=en
[16:29:33] <furrywolf> bbl
[16:30:22] <furrywolf> "too much fog? no problem. we'll BURN IT ALL OFF! Muahaha!"
[17:01:38] <Deejay> gn8
[17:01:51] <PetefromTn_> GN8 DEEJAY!!
[17:02:04] <Deejay> hey and bye, Pete :)
[17:02:22] <PetefromTn_> :D
[17:03:26] <Wolf_Mill> hmm
[17:03:48] <Wolf_Mill> seems really cool to being using some tools that are this old next to a cnc machine :D
[17:18:25] <Wolf_Mill> heh, found the B&S no.21 in a catalog scan, $7
[17:38:35] <Jymmm> beans?
[17:38:54] <Wolf_Mill> catalog was from 1916...
[17:39:56] <Jymmm> I got a rock from 1916 ;)
[17:41:43] <CaptHindsight> slow mail?
[17:41:51] <Wolf_Mill> seems I have a stack of old machinist tools, guess my dad got them used back in the '40
[17:41:57] <Wolf_Mill> '40s
[17:44:18] <PetefromTn_> cool
[18:27:25] <renesis> furrywolf: bottom of your news scan, says 'personal shoppers at your service!' and has a picture of death?
[18:41:49] <zeeshan> hi friends
[18:41:52] <zeeshan> wish me LUCK!
[18:41:56] <malcom2073> Good luck?
[18:41:56] <zeeshan> i put a deposit down
[18:42:00] <zeeshan> 95% of the deal is done
[18:42:02] <zeeshan> on the nakamura
[18:42:06] <malcom2073> Nice
[18:42:10] <malcom2073> Good luck
[18:42:13] <zeeshan> it turned out better than i was expecting!
[18:42:17] <zeeshan> it has a 3.25" spindle bore!!!
[18:42:19] <zeeshan> not 1.63
[18:42:31] <zeeshan> im just worried on how to fit it :P
[18:42:57] <Wolf_Mill> take a wall out between the garage and house
[18:43:05] <malcom2073> Nice
[18:43:11] <PetefromTn_> nice man
[18:43:55] <zeeshan> i asked for 4 week of storage
[18:43:58] <zeeshan> so i can prep
[18:44:23] <Wolf_Mill> zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/6h18AtY.jpg
[18:44:34] <zeeshan> you showed me!
[18:44:41] <Wolf_Mill> oh right lol
[18:45:02] <Wolf_Mill> with the noga all hooked up?
[18:45:16] <zeeshan> i thinkso
[18:45:16] <zeeshan> :P
[18:45:21] <zeeshan> wait
[18:45:23] <zeeshan> no the noga wasnt hooked
[18:45:55] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/w4VTf
[18:45:59] <zeeshan> tons of pics
[18:46:26] <zeeshan> the spindle motor is huge
[18:46:30] <zeeshan> i definitely need to change it
[18:46:31] <zeeshan> its 20hp
[18:46:35] <zeeshan> i want a 7.5hp
[18:46:43] <zeeshan> at most 10hp
[18:47:37] <PetefromTn_> that is a pretty serious machine
[18:47:54] <zeeshan> yea man!!
[18:48:01] <zeeshan> i really need to strip it down
[18:48:06] <zeeshan> and make it more compact
[18:48:12] <zeeshan> it is clear from the design of this machine
[18:48:15] <zeeshan> space wasn't a constraint
[18:48:33] <zeeshan> check this out
[18:48:34] <zeeshan> wher eit is stored
[18:48:41] <PetefromTn_> I assume that picture with the motor and belts is the spindle motor?
[18:48:43] <zeeshan> they are the main rigger for mori seiki, dmg
[18:48:55] <zeeshan> they had litrerally 500+ dmg machines sitting there
[18:48:56] <zeeshan> brand new
[18:48:59] <zeeshan> i was drolling
[18:49:01] <zeeshan> drooling
[18:49:08] <PetefromTn_> I'm sure
[18:49:11] <zeeshan> they were going to companies like rolls royce and stuff
[18:49:19] <zeeshan> apparently they move 25 machines a day
[18:49:28] <zeeshan> i wish i was rich
[18:49:38] <zeeshan> yea the thing with the 8 belts or something like that
[18:49:38] <PetefromTn_> what did you wind up paying if you don't mind me asking
[18:49:39] <zeeshan> is the spindle motor
[18:49:42] <zeeshan> 4000
[18:49:47] <zeeshan> it has a broken X axis
[18:49:57] <PetefromTn_> what is wrong with the X?
[18:50:06] <zeeshan> they get a servo load error
[18:50:12] <zeeshan> so they think the balls have jumped
[18:50:17] <zeeshan> i don't thinkso.
[18:50:26] <zeeshan> before i do anything
[18:50:30] <zeeshan> ill just put my own controller in first
[18:50:32] <zeeshan> and see if it runs
[18:50:32] <Wolf_Mill> sad part is if they are riggers they probably got the thing by waving removal fees
[18:50:43] <zeeshan> no
[18:50:50] <zeeshan> the story is the machinery dealer deals with this riggers all the time
[18:50:58] <zeeshan> they crashed a forklift into the left side of the machine
[18:51:03] <zeeshan> bending the 14 gauge cover
[18:51:13] <zeeshan> the person who bought it was buying 2 machines
[18:51:13] <PetefromTn_> If you can run it with a 10HP motor under linuxCNC that will be a sweet home shop machine assuming everything is working okay
[18:51:59] <zeeshan> so basically the rigger had to keep the machine
[18:52:05] <zeeshan> originally the machine sold for 8000
[18:52:16] <zeeshan> he showed me paper work
[18:52:18] <zeeshan> looks legit..
[18:52:31] <Wolf_Mill> ahh ok :D
[18:52:32] <PetefromTn_> is that a power tailstock?
[18:52:32] <zeeshan> im gonna sell the chip conveyor
[18:52:40] <zeeshan> and all the electronics
[18:52:45] <zeeshan> yea its hydraulic tail stock
[18:52:47] <zeeshan> and hydraulic chuck
[18:52:48] <PetefromTn_> why the conveyor?
[18:52:57] <zeeshan> it collects the fallen chips
[18:52:59] <zeeshan> and puts em in a bin
[18:53:00] <zeeshan> i dont need it
[18:53:08] <PetefromTn_> are you sure?
[18:53:09] <zeeshan> ill let em fall on the floor
[18:53:10] <zeeshan> and sweep after
[18:53:13] <Wolf_Mill> lol, probably almost make your $$ back out of parting the swarf off that thing
[18:53:24] <zeeshan> or make a small box
[18:53:26] <zeeshan> to collect
[18:53:43] <zeeshan> the machine is 9 feet side to side without the conveyour
[18:53:44] <PetefromTn_> I wish you the best of luck with it zeeshan
[18:53:51] <zeeshan> the conveyor adds another 3 feet
[18:53:53] <zeeshan> i dont have space
[18:53:58] <zeeshan> thanks pete
[18:53:59] <PetefromTn_> I can appreciate that
[18:54:01] <zeeshan> i really hope they accept the deal
[18:54:23] <PetefromTn_> do you plan on running the fanuc motors or swapping them out for something else?
[18:54:37] <zeeshan> double minded
[18:54:43] <zeeshan> if they're brush fanuc
[18:54:44] <zeeshan> ill run
[18:54:47] <zeeshan> if theyre some crazy thing
[18:54:47] <zeeshan> ill replace
[18:55:13] <PetefromTn_> that is gonna be an ambitious retrofit. I look forward to watching you go thru it.
[18:55:28] <zeeshan> yes man im excited!!
[18:55:30] <PetefromTn_> I wish I had the power here to run a similar machine but I just don't think I could
[18:55:36] <zeeshan> you dont have 200A service?
[18:55:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah I do
[18:55:44] <zeeshan> then you can run it
[18:55:50] <zeeshan> when im done with it
[18:55:52] <zeeshan> itll be on a 120A breaker
[18:55:55] <zeeshan> or 140A at most
[18:55:57] <PetefromTn_> well not while the Cincinatti is running most likely
[18:56:03] <zeeshan> haha yea thats not happening
[18:56:05] * malcom2073 scrolls up for pics, isn't disappointed
[18:56:07] <zeeshan> same here with the mill..
[18:56:21] <zeeshan> dude i went in thinking it was 1.625" spindle bore
[18:56:23] <PetefromTn_> 120A?
[18:56:24] <zeeshan> all the internet sites say that
[18:56:31] <zeeshan> when i saw it was 3.25"
[18:56:35] <zeeshan> i had the biggest smile
[18:56:38] <malcom2073> 3.25? That's freaking huge
[18:56:43] <PetefromTn_> yup that is a gaping maw
[18:56:49] <zeeshan> i spin the chuck
[18:56:56] <zeeshan> and i didnt measure any runout with a 5 tenths
[18:57:04] <PetefromTn_> nice
[18:57:04] <zeeshan> phsycailly i can see some crash marks on the tool holders
[18:57:11] <zeeshan> but not on the chuck
[18:57:18] <zeeshan> they musta crashed the tool into the work piece
[18:57:29] <PetefromTn_> people crash CNC turning centers a lot more than most would admit LOL
[18:57:35] <zeeshan> haha
[18:57:54] <malcom2073> God damn, 50amp spindle motor lol
[18:58:24] <zeeshan> no way i can run that
[18:58:27] <zeeshan> need to replace
[18:58:46] <malcom2073> Sure youcan :P
[18:59:21] <malcom2073> I have a heater that is 220/50a
[18:59:24] <PetefromTn_> Good that it is not direct driven and you can swap easily with the belt drive
[18:59:58] <PetefromTn_> what size chuck is that?
[19:00:00] <zeeshan> malcom2073: its 3 phase though
[19:00:10] <zeeshan> so you gotta multiply 50*sqrt(3)
[19:00:12] <malcom2073> They do make 15-20hp VFDs.....
[19:00:14] <zeeshan> to get the current your single phase will drive
[19:00:19] <zeeshan> yes, but very expensive
[19:00:22] <zeeshan> i dont need all that power
[19:00:25] <malcom2073> hehe
[19:00:33] <zeeshan> 7.5hp is more than plenty
[19:00:37] <zeeshan> and if anything overkill
[19:00:47] <PetefromTn_> I would probably recommend you go for 10 on that machine
[19:01:38] <zeeshan> the chuck is a 10" chuck
[19:01:42] <zeeshan> 10 capacity
[19:02:02] <malcom2073> Kinda small, but with a machine like that you're doing uber complicated jobs, not big stuff
[19:02:19] <zeeshan> i mostly work around 2.25"
[19:02:22] <zeeshan> so its good enough for me
[19:03:14] <malcom2073> Why would you run the fanuc system if they're brushed, but replace if they're brushless?
[19:03:28] <PetefromTn_> with a 10" capacity chuck you have some pretty serious rotating mass there. I would try to go 10HP I think. you can run that single phase okay
[19:03:39] <zeeshan> fanuc brushless apparently is a pain to work w/
[19:04:11] <malcom2073> Are you replacing the control system no matter what, and just reusing drives only if they're brushed or what? I'm confused
[19:04:17] <PetefromTn_> LOL you could probably pull the motors and drives and sell them for enough cash to buy the Teco's motors and drives like I got for the Cinci..
[19:04:51] <PetefromTn_> or mistubishi or similar
[19:04:51] <zeeshan> im replacing everything
[19:04:59] <zeeshan> except the motors if they're brushed
[19:05:01] <PetefromTn_> awesome
[19:05:03] <malcom2073> Ah gotcha, I understand now
[19:05:07] <malcom2073> Gonna be an awesome project
[19:05:25] <zeeshan> basically what i can afford by parting out the original electronics
[19:05:31] <zeeshan> + conveyour
[19:05:33] <zeeshan> conveyor
[19:05:48] <malcom2073> Nice
[19:06:29] <zeeshan> i hope this guy comes back with good news tommo
[19:06:33] <zeeshan> that they accepted the deal
[19:06:41] <zeeshan> (im trying to get them to move it for me too, since they are riggers!)
[19:06:42] <zeeshan> lol
[19:06:59] <andypugh> zeeshan: Fanuc brushless might not be too hard to work with now there is a Mesa module that decodes the encoders.
[19:07:13] <andypugh> Ad I bealive they are very nice enoders.
[19:07:22] <zeeshan> lets see...
[19:07:30] <zeeshan> i dont even know anything about the inidivudsal specs
[19:07:34] <zeeshan> i couldnt see the motor name plate
[19:07:42] <zeeshan> and iwas in formal business clothes
[19:07:46] <zeeshan> so i couldnt get down and dirty :P
[19:07:48] <Wolf_Mill> malcom2073: whats the driver kit you mentioned the other night?
[19:07:58] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: UHU
[19:08:17] <malcom2073> I took a look at my driver, looks like a cap exploded on it, could be fixed....
[19:08:28] <malcom2073> the UHU stuff is gonna cost me $150 per drive in parts, and then I'd still have to solder them together
[19:08:58] <Wolf_Mill> meh, brushed...
[19:09:05] <malcom2073> Yeah brushed
[19:09:19] <andypugh> malcom2073: mesa 8i20 isn’t a lot more than that.
[19:09:58] <andypugh> I should know how much they are, as I bought one this evening, but I think I am trying to blank it out.
[19:10:05] <malcom2073> Isn't the 8i20 brushless?
[19:10:12] <Wolf_Mill> ick all thru hole?
[19:10:15] <_methods> heheh $800 black hole
[19:10:25] <andypugh> zeeshan:
[19:10:26] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: I'm not great at surface mount
[19:10:31] <andypugh> zeeshan: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Fanuc%20encoder.
[19:10:44] <andypugh> malcom2073: You want brushed?
[19:10:48] <Wolf_Mill> I'm good at it, damn eazy with the right setuo
[19:10:49] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: The UHU is step-dir
[19:10:51] <malcom2073> andypugh: My motors are brushed
[19:10:53] <Wolf_Mill> setup*
[19:11:24] <andypugh> malcom2073: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_90&product_id=141 Note that each board is 2 channels…
[19:11:27] <malcom2073> It's looking like I may not be able to do steppers anyway, they don't make steppers with long enough shafts to run the pulleys I have with the stock mounting locations heh
[19:11:38] <PetefromTn_> well either way good luck zeeshan hope they accept your offer and I hope the machine works out great for you.
[19:12:22] <Wolf_Mill> my problem is I have a set of nice brushless servos, no drivers lol
[19:12:24] <malcom2073> andypugh: I believe that would do it, but I only need 3 channels not 4 :P
[19:12:29] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Ahhh heh.
[19:12:37] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: You could do STMBL, it's an open source brushless driver
[19:12:43] <malcom2073> about $250 assembled
[19:12:54] <malcom2073> Cheaper if DIY
[19:13:04] <andypugh> Wolf_Mill: Well, 8i20 would work for you. Or Granite Devices
[19:13:28] <malcom2073> If I can find steppers with 55mm shafts, I'd be done haha
[19:15:05] <andypugh> malcom2073: Make some shaft-extensions
[19:15:19] <malcom2073> andypugh: That sounds... I dunno
[19:15:35] <malcom2073> Is that legit?
[19:16:09] <PCW> zeeshan: those are yellow cap motors so brushed
[19:16:11] <malcom2073> Hard to tell if someone is trolling me for wanting steppers or serious :P
[19:16:37] <andypugh> Well, ideally you would press out the existing shafts and make longer ones, but moring some oversize steel to the shaft diameter then boring the pulleys to the oversize ought to work at stepper torque.
[19:16:54] <andypugh> (moring = boring)
[19:16:55] <malcom2073> The pulleys are already oversized, so I have to have a bushing of some type
[19:17:03] <andypugh> Ideal then
[19:17:10] <PCW> Pretty sure drives of that vintage are analog (though not sure if they are good)
[19:17:29] <malcom2073> There's only 12mm of overlap
[19:17:43] <malcom2073> Or rather, pulley engaugement on the shaft
[19:17:51] <malcom2073> So enough to get a set screw the whole way through, which is nice
[19:19:05] <Wolf_Mill> malcom2073: http://www.sdp-si.com/eStore/Catalog# metric button, then shafts & accessories
[19:19:16] <Wolf_Mill> if the stuff is metric...
[19:20:21] <zeeshan> awesojme
[19:20:35] <zeeshan> brb
[19:21:00] <malcom2073> I have a 50 ton press, I could stick some steel in the lathe and make an adapter to press into the pulley, then have a set screw for securing it to the stepper
[19:30:53] <malcom2073> 2x7i29+5125 == big money... but I may be able to make that much selling my drives on ebay
[19:40:38] <trentster> howdy all - what kind/brand of double sided tape should I buy for holding down cutting parts like thin wood sheets and acrylics?
[19:49:57] <zeeshan> andypugh/pcw why couldnt ssi use this fanuc encoder option
[19:50:28] <PCW> didnt want to or didnt know I guess
[19:51:00] <PCW> yellow cap are brushed DC with standard quadrature encoders
[19:51:10] <andypugh> How quaint
[19:51:57] <PCW> red cap are brushless and have either quadrature+fanuc 1248 commutation track or serial
[19:53:13] <PCW> newer are serial (32K,64K 1M 16M o > counts)
[19:54:43] <PetefromTn_> wow
[19:57:01] <zeeshan> he has redcaps
[19:58:04] <PCW> I think he has older ones with 1248 commutation
[19:58:24] <zeeshan> well as soon as im ready to order this
[19:58:33] <zeeshan> ill be ordering a 5i25 and 7i77
[19:58:39] <zeeshan> maybe even two 7i77
[19:58:46] <zeeshan> cause i have a feelijg it has a lot of io requirements
[19:58:48] <zeeshan> we'll see..
[19:58:54] <zeeshan> this machine comes with manuals
[19:59:00] <zeeshan> so it wont be as much guess work like the mikron
[19:59:23] <PCW> be advised we are so backed up it may take a week or three to get there :-(
[19:59:26] <zeeshan> aw :(
[19:59:33] <zeeshan> its okay, im sure ill be doing other stuff while waiting for it
[19:59:47] <zeeshan> PCW: did tormach cause a huge increase in manufacruing requirements?
[20:00:04] <zeeshan> i'm glad you guys are doing well, mesa is good stuff.
[20:00:25] <PCW> no we have some larger OEMS (not CNC related) that are keeping us pretty busy
[20:01:00] <PCW> but the CNC stuff is picking up also
[20:02:16] <PCW> Have had to start making bigger lots
[20:02:42] <PCW> plus I'm getting too old for this
[20:03:19] <zeeshan> hire someone!
[20:04:08] <PCW> a little gunshy about employees ATM
[20:04:35] <malcom2073> It's a scary jump I hear
[20:04:45] <PCW> need to spend more quality time with my sheep...
[20:06:43] <PCW> we have had as many as 8 employees at times
[20:07:02] <malcom2073> Nice
[20:08:36] <furrywolf> any luck finding more minions?
[20:10:34] <PCW> Not really. we are holding our own (at least for the larger OEM orders) The low volume stuff has suffered
[20:10:35] <PCW> but I think we will catch up with some larger lots on the CNC stuff
[20:11:35] <PCW> changing from 100 to 250 or 500 on popular things
[20:11:52] <zeeshan> NOOOOOOO
[20:11:54] <zeeshan> dont increase prices yet!
[20:12:00] <andypugh> How are the sheeps?
[20:12:19] <furrywolf> zeeshan: he's talking lot quantities, not prices.
[20:12:47] <zeeshan> furry did you see my future machine 95%!
[20:12:48] <PCW> Good we have 8 now (4 yearlings added )
[20:12:52] <zeeshan> im excited
[20:12:52] <furrywolf> no
[20:13:03] <trentster> what kind/brand of double sided tape is reccomended for holding down cutting parts like thin wood sheets and acrylics?
[20:13:10] <furrywolf> trentster: 3m
[20:13:13] <andypugh> That’s more than a few sheep, that’s a flock!
[20:13:44] <furrywolf> my neighbor has sheep. I hate them. every one of them. BAAAA! BAAAAAA! BAA? BAAAAAAAAA! BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! BAAAAA! BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! BAAA! etc.
[20:13:44] <furrywolf> all day.
[20:13:50] <andypugh> trentster: You probably don’t want the foamed acrylic, that might be too strong.
[20:13:51] <trentster> furrywolf: 3m sell like 10 trillion different types of tape
[20:13:58] <PCW> Yeah its funny to see them all come running for a treat (or leftovers)
[20:14:16] <furrywolf> it's 3am? let's BAAAA extra loud!
[20:14:19] <PCW> Ours are silent
[20:14:28] <zeeshan> trentster: 3m vhb 5962
[20:14:37] <trentster> zeeshan: thanks mate
[20:14:53] <zeeshan> i also dont remember the one tom lipton uses
[20:15:00] <malcom2073> My neighbors have a rooster
[20:15:00] <zeeshan> but google "oxtoolco double sided tape"
[20:15:06] <malcom2073> Which apparently is blind, because it thinks 2am is dawn
[20:15:08] <malcom2073> and 4am
[20:15:11] <malcom2073> and 10am
[20:15:12] <malcom2073> and 3pm
[20:15:13] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI1yggBwUIo
[20:15:13] <zeeshan> nm
[20:15:14] <PCW> maybe a stray BAAA if there are corn chips at hand
[20:15:15] <zeeshan> found the episode
[20:15:18] <furrywolf> malcom2073: yes. most of them are like that.
[20:15:36] <furrywolf> and most people with them don't give a fuck about anyone's sleep.
[20:15:37] <malcom2073> SHould chop it up for chinese food
[20:15:42] <furrywolf> yes
[20:17:21] <furrywolf> or, even better, indian food. :P
[20:17:58] <andypugh> https://youtu.be/7OtrDvDvF5I?t=1m20s VHB tape beats (a small number of) rivets
[20:18:06] <malcom2073> mmm indian
[20:18:34] <malcom2073> My wife makes good indian food, I should go catch her some fresh chicken
[20:19:32] <furrywolf> I don't see how people can be such assholes as to keep nuisance animals... but many of them are.
[20:20:04] <malcom2073> Well, in my neighbors defense, they *are* on a 400 acre farm
[20:20:08] <malcom2073> their house just happens to be close to the edge heh
[20:42:14] <malcom2073> furrywolf: How far are you from seattle?
[20:42:32] <malcom2073> Some guy selling a Tree 310 CNC for $6k
[20:43:58] <furrywolf> two states? :P
[20:44:12] <malcom2073> Psh
[20:44:15] <malcom2073> Oh yeah you're in CA
[20:44:25] <malcom2073> It's all west coast, that's like an hour from you yeah?
[20:44:25] <malcom2073> :P
[20:46:53] <bobo> zeeshan: Wishing the to be lathe workes out for you. Hope you have several backup plans to get around those bobo moments that always crop up.
[20:47:16] <malcom2073> I'm sure we'll hear about any issues :-D
[20:48:08] * furrywolf still hasn't seen zee's new toy
[20:52:36] <bobo> furrywolf try this for the Z toy http://imgur.com/a/w4VTf
[20:54:48] <furrywolf> that page is too large to load.
[20:55:26] <furrywolf> for some reason of brain-damaged web design, it includes every single full-size image, scaled down in the browser. it's fucking huge.
[20:56:38] <furrywolf> loading just the first image, it looks very big. lol
[20:57:05] <furrywolf> and looks like he'll have another linuxcnc conversion project. :P
[20:59:00] <furrywolf> cheap chinese headlight suggestions? I got a http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000LM-Zoomable-Cree-XM-L-T6-Led-Headlight-Headlamp-Head-Torch-18650-Charger-/141660696179 , and while it works, even "zoomed" all the way out, it has an annoyingly narrow beam.
[20:59:27] <malcom2073> furrywolf: The spindle has a 3.25" through
[20:59:54] <furrywolf> my lathe has a .375" through. :P
[21:01:02] <malcom2073> Hmm, this looks terrible
[21:01:35] <furrywolf> ?
[21:01:48] <malcom2073> http://i.imgur.com/MIKiCaH.png
[21:02:01] <malcom2073> That's a stepper drive shaft, a sleeve, and a pully
[21:02:22] <malcom2073> Only 12mm overlap of stepper drive shaft and pulley hub
[21:02:55] <furrywolf> tighten the set screw good and tight. :)
[21:02:59] <malcom2073> hah indeed
[21:03:05] <malcom2073> And hope the sleeve is pretty hard
[21:03:09] <malcom2073> The pulley is steel, which helps
[21:05:01] <Wolf_Mill> could copy the fairloc type clamp for that
[21:05:54] <malcom2073> It looks even worse once I actually scale things correctly haha
[21:06:36] <malcom2073> http://i.imgur.com/RyanRur.png
[21:07:02] <furrywolf> why are most of the headlamps designed for a tight beam? I want a flood!
[21:07:14] <malcom2073> Lol, furrywolf Because people whine about being blinded etc etc
[21:07:35] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: The pulley is a premade part, or are you suggesting the bushing have that clamp style?
[21:08:01] <furrywolf> a tight beam blinds you worse, as it focuses all the light into a smaller area.
[21:08:13] <malcom2073> Well not if you aim them properly :P
[21:09:13] <Wolf_Mill> you didnt look at the link i suggested did you, whats the shaft sizes?
[21:09:29] <malcom2073> I didn't seeyour link, I googled fairloc
[21:09:29] <malcom2073> lol
[21:09:44] <malcom2073> stepper shaft is 14mm, pulley hole is 26mm
[21:10:02] <malcom2073> Ohhh I misread
[21:10:03] <malcom2073> whups
[21:10:09] <malcom2073> Nevermind it's ok, the pulley hole is 16mm
[21:10:25] <furrywolf> malcom2073: I'm trying to see what I'm doing, not see something waaay off in the distance.
[21:11:18] <Wolf_Mill> they dont have one that matches those sizes but here is the link for the general idea http://www.sdp-si.com/eStore/Catalog/PartNumber/S52FCYM080120
[21:11:35] <malcom2073> Hmmm
[21:12:05] <malcom2073> Yeah I saw your link earlier
[21:12:10] <malcom2073> didn't understand what part you were going forheh
[21:14:18] <furrywolf> I wonder if I could just mount a diffuser of some form over the lens... might lose a lot of light though.
[21:15:33] <malcom2073> I could flip the steppers around, mount them sticking straight out I suppose
[21:27:15] * Jymmm likes his headlamp
[21:27:39] <Jymmm> worked great when replacing the in-tank fuel pump at night.
[21:28:07] <malcom2073> Head lamps, while dorky, are very nice
[21:28:35] <Jymmm> Yep, that's what I thought too, till I actually tired/needed one
[21:29:11] <furrywolf> I generally dislike them, but I have a job in a couple weeks where I'll be in a very, very tight crawlspace, and might need both hands to work...
[21:29:31] <CaptHindsight> does it attract insects to your forehead?
[21:29:41] <furrywolf> it's a crawlspace between two floors of a house, with just enough room to wiggle on your stomach... barely.
[21:29:59] <malcom2073> Ooohhh, so the stepper is 14mm, and the pulley is 16mm
[21:30:01] <malcom2073> so only a 2mm bushing
[21:30:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I've never had that happen (yet)
[21:30:08] <malcom2073> 12mm overlap is a good ratio
[21:36:50] <Jymmm> http://www.fenixlight.com/ProductMore.aspx?id=34&tid=27&cid=2
[21:44:47] <roycroft> wow
[21:44:57] <roycroft> donald trump just made a major foreign policy speech
[21:45:18] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: Did it involve appealing to the construction industry?
[21:45:19] <roycroft> please forgive me for going into all the minute details of his speech, but it is important
[21:45:49] <roycroft> we are going to rebuild our military, and it is going to be so great that we won't need to use it because everybody will be afraid of us
[21:46:00] <roycroft> and again, i'm sorry i scrolled for so long
[21:46:30] <roycroft> the other 11-1/2 minutes of his speech were about how great he is, of course
[21:46:33] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[21:46:47] <SpeedEvil> Good luck building up the military so it scares china.
[21:46:57] <roycroft> that's not a problem
[21:47:06] <roycroft> he's going to hire "good negotiators" to deal with china
[21:47:12] <roycroft> he knows "the best"
[21:47:13] <SpeedEvil> hah
[21:47:21] <roycroft> and they will "totally win"
[21:47:26] <roycroft> and china will not be a problem
[21:48:59] <roycroft> trump makes tony abbott sound like william f. buckley in comparison
[21:49:51] <renesis> hes gonna win the nomination
[21:49:58] <roycroft> he might
[21:50:22] <roycroft> and as a progressive i should wish for that, because conventional wisdom says that would hand victory to the democrats
[21:50:27] <roycroft> but i'm scared as hell
[21:50:37] <roycroft> because he might actually win the general election as well
[21:50:46] <roycroft> and that would be the end of this country
[21:51:20] <roycroft> i'm not a democrat, btw, and i'm not particularly thrilled with any of the candidates running for that party
[21:52:00] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[21:52:11] <roycroft> the trump phenomenon is astonishing
[21:52:16] <roycroft> in a very bad way
[21:52:18] <SpeedEvil> 'joke' candidates with name recognition are not a good thing to get into your politics
[21:52:47] <SpeedEvil> because half the battle is knowing the name
[21:52:48] <roycroft> the thing is, i don't think he's a joke candidate
[21:52:54] <roycroft> i think he really wants to be president
[21:53:01] <zeeshan> bobo: thanks man :)
[21:53:09] <SpeedEvil> I mean joke, from any rational perspective.
[21:53:14] <roycroft> and i think a lot of people really want him to be president
[21:53:55] <roycroft> some folks in the rnc are talking quietly about running someone as a third-party candidate if trump gets the republican nomination
[21:54:02] <roycroft> someone like bush
[21:54:19] <SpeedEvil> yeah - split the party.
[21:54:25] <SpeedEvil> That went so well when I played D+D
[21:54:34] * roycroft thinks we need a national twitter and facebook outage for a few months, until the election
[21:55:05] <roycroft> i think that the rnc would almost hand the election to the democrats than let trump be president
[21:55:11] <roycroft> there are a few sane people left in the party
[21:55:21] <roycroft> almost rather, that is
[21:56:13] <SpeedEvil> yeah - there is a time when you have to accept that the opposition is not baby-eaters, and winning at all cost can be not worth it
[22:01:04] <roycroft> what's even more astonishing, perhaps, is that bernie sanders is gaining on and about to overtake clinton by taking the exact opposite approach
[22:01:18] <roycroft> he's the ultimate anti-celebrity candidate
[22:01:24] <roycroft> and he only talks about policy
[22:01:31] <roycroft> never about himself or the other candidates
[22:01:58] <zeeshan> go trump go!
[22:02:14] <roycroft> je
[22:02:22] <roycroft> he would fuck over canada as well as the us
[22:02:27] <SpeedEvil> It's a shame Sanders is so old
[22:02:32] <roycroft> so don't be so quick to cheer him on :)
[22:02:41] <roycroft> and pardon my language
[22:02:50] <roycroft> but there is no more polite way to say what he would do
[22:03:03] <roycroft> 80 is the new 70
[22:03:07] <roycroft> sanders is still young
[22:03:09] <roycroft> :)
[22:03:12] <zeeshan> hes the best president since bush
[22:03:27] <roycroft> and besides
[22:03:37] <roycroft> while you're trying to bring up our dirty laundry
[22:03:45] <roycroft> don't think you can ignore stephen harper
[22:03:47] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: the chances of someone of his age - even in great health - not being OK at the end of 5 years is very high though alas
[22:03:56] <SpeedEvil> never mind 9
[22:04:00] <roycroft> generally yes, speedevil
[22:04:00] <zeeshan> whats wrong with harper
[22:04:01] <zeeshan> hes awesome
[22:04:10] <roycroft> however, the president of the united states has the best health care in the world
[22:04:24] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: and teh most stressfull job in the world.
[22:04:28] <SpeedEvil> They pretty much even out
[22:04:30] <roycroft> if he even blinks too often there will be a doctor checking him out
[22:04:33] <SpeedEvil> At best.
[22:05:35] <roycroft> zeeshan: i know you're being faceitous, so i won't bother reciting the litany of transgressions
[22:05:41] <zeeshan> no im not
[22:05:53] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo I finally got around to making an actual program for the bottom dovetail on my rails instead of always doing it manually LOL
[22:06:01] <roycroft> i find that hard to believe
[22:06:13] <zeeshan> thats your prob then
[22:06:15] <roycroft> i've spoken with you and watched you here for a long time
[22:06:22] <roycroft> and you're definitely an intelligent person
[22:06:22] <zeeshan> a lot of america agrees with me
[22:06:39] <roycroft> really?
[22:06:54] <roycroft> i bet no more than 2% of this country even know who he is
[22:08:54] <roycroft> not only can most americans not name a single supreme court justice, they cannot name their two senators and congressional represenatative
[22:08:58] <roycroft> representative
[22:09:17] <roycroft> we are perhaps the most politically disengaged industrialized country in the world
[22:09:17] <PetefromTn_> boy this place sure is some kinda socialist liberal crying game over here ;)
[22:09:34] <roycroft> what have i said that is "socialist" or "liberal"?
[22:09:38] <Wolf_Mill> I try not to think about the reps for my area, cause they all suck
[22:10:01] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: dammit - I can't quite name any supreme court justices despite having actualy rad several judgements
[22:10:11] <SpeedEvil> I was sure I could, but can't think of any
[22:10:23] <PetefromTn_> who cares they are all assholes
[22:10:46] <PetefromTn_> but HEY I GOT my program made!!
[22:10:52] <roycroft> they have more influence over our lives than the president or the congress
[22:10:54] <PetefromTn_> and better yet I got it under ten minutes
[22:11:23] <PetefromTn_> now I can really go thru these rails and the only real thinking I will have to do is adjust for the custom droop angle
[22:11:26] <roycroft> anyway
[22:11:35] <roycroft> i really only intended to rail on trump a bit
[22:11:38] <roycroft> because it's fun
[22:11:41] <roycroft> albeit scary fun
[22:11:54] * SpeedEvil does not want to imagine railing trump.
[22:11:58] <roycroft> and railing on trump is definitely not a "socialist" or "liberal" thing
[22:12:16] <roycroft> he is disliked by both sides
[22:12:24] * roycroft will make dinner now
[22:14:12] <PetefromTn_> I need to order some more 3/8 and 1/2 inch collets I wind up switching not because of lack of holders but because of lack of collets a lot damnit
[22:33:33] <furrywolf> woot. second LED light built. this one has 4 1600lm 15.5W bulbs.
[22:47:46] <furrywolf> I hate china. I bought an Irwin/Hanson thread pitch gauge. a thread pitch gauge. the back says "extractor made in USA with global components. drill bit made in brazil." They copied the "made in" section off, I'm presuming, an easy-out set, and used it for a thread pitch gauge.
[22:48:50] <Connor> furrywolf: Huh?
[22:49:22] <furrywolf> huh what? they fucked up their packaging by re-using part of another product's packaging.
[22:49:46] <Connor> Wasn't very clear..
[22:49:48] <furrywolf> the package contains a thread pitch gauge, but the section on the back of the package is for an easy-out set.
[22:49:58] <Connor> Ah. Okay.
[22:50:07] <furrywolf> it also has english to match your average ebay purchase.
[22:50:43] <furrywolf> it's not like Irwin/Hanson is a small-time company. but they now just stick their name on the same chinese shit as everyone else, not even proofreading the packaging they're sticking their name on.
[22:51:30] <Connor> I would complain.. because of the Made in USA part... it's false advertising.. and can get'm in a world of hurt.
[22:51:33] <PetefromTn_> Connor HEY!!
[22:51:46] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Yo.
[22:53:57] <Connor> So, I did a component level repair on a Server Motherboard last night...
[22:54:12] <furrywolf> I bought the name-brand version hoping it would be better than the harbor freight version. I don't think it is.
[22:54:15] <Connor> I've repaired other things.. LCD monitor.. Roomba's.. first time fixing a Motherboard..
[22:54:28] <PetefromTn_> nice
[22:54:29] <furrywolf> I can't imagine being such a worthless member of the planet to sell things like that.
[22:54:46] <Wolf_Mill> roomba IR sensors shouldnt count as a repair :P
[22:54:54] <Connor> Yea, bad capacitor. Easy fix.
[22:55:27] <Connor> Wolf_Mill: Umm.. No, replacing H-Bridges.. bad crystal in one... brush motors... drive wheels...
[22:55:34] <PetefromTn_> you wanna laugh
[22:55:49] <Wolf_Mill> lol, I must be lucky then
[22:55:55] <PetefromTn_> I sold my old kerosene forced air heater after I could not figure out how to fix it myself
[22:55:59] <furrywolf> Connor: I've replaced the caps on several motherboards.
[22:56:06] <PetefromTn_> guy gave me $20 for it LOL
[22:56:07] <Wolf_Mill> 3 roomba, all 3 needed ir sensors
[22:56:28] <PetefromTn_> then that evening he texted me letting me know it was the plug that was the problem....
[22:56:37] <PetefromTn_> I was like YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME
[22:56:44] <furrywolf> lol
[22:56:50] <Wolf_Mill> haha
[22:57:16] <furrywolf> I got a free 100W solar panel with that problem once... the cable had been damaged near the plug and was shorting it. :P
[22:57:16] <PetefromTn_> I told him I would give him back his $20 for it but he suprisingly declined ;)
[22:57:30] <Connor> I fixed a heck of allot of Roomba's when I owned theroombashop.com
[22:57:38] <PetefromTn_> there was probably $20 worth of kerosene in it
[22:57:54] <Connor> I told you that plug had issues....
[22:58:01] <furrywolf> hrmm. we need a law that if you start making a product in a different country, you're not allowed to sell it under the same brand/product name.
[22:58:03] <PetefromTn_> aren't those roombas kind of a toy? I mean they don't actually work well do they?
[22:58:22] <PetefromTn_> when?
[22:58:25] <Wolf_Mill> when they are cleaned out they work good
[22:58:41] <Connor> PetefromTn_: No, They work rather well.. the key is to clean them every few times... and be sure to empty the dust bins.
[22:58:59] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I dunno.. last time I was over there it was acting a bit strange..
[22:59:06] <PetefromTn_> damn
[22:59:07] <Connor> I thought you had determined that it wasn't the issue..
[22:59:14] <PetefromTn_> so did I :D
[22:59:28] <Connor> Broken wires can be a PITA to track down.
[22:59:42] <PetefromTn_> Oh well now I can get a better one right hehe
[22:59:49] <Connor> Yup.
[23:00:05] <PetefromTn_> I sold it because I thought it was the main board
[23:00:13] <PetefromTn_> the replacement board is like $80
[23:00:29] <PetefromTn_> and I did not want to put that much into it as I had it for several years already
[23:00:33] <Connor> No Mobo for this server was going to be around $180.00 3rd party.. SuperMicro doesn't make it anymore.
[23:00:41] <Connor> err. New Mobo
[23:00:47] <PetefromTn_> now I get to put probably $200 into it because I am a shithead
[23:01:17] <Connor> I once spent $50.00 to have a appliance repairman come out and change a FUSE in the fuse panel (before we upgraded to breakers).
[23:01:43] <Connor> I didn't realize that the light on the dryer was still lite because it was on the 2nd half of the 220 circuit..
[23:01:46] <Wolf_Mill> lol, I got to charge someone $40 to go flip a breaker for them
[23:01:48] <Connor> so, I never checked it.
[23:02:18] <PetefromTn_> nothing worse than costing yourself hard earned money because you're stupid huh.. LOL
[23:02:20] <Connor> It only blew half the circuit.. go figure.
[23:02:48] <Connor> Like blowing up one of my spindle motor controllers on the Mill...
[23:03:04] <PetefromTn_> Hey I did that once.....or was it twice
[23:03:20] <Connor> or ordering non-machined screws (when I couldn't machine them.. and a local shop would have charged me more that what I could order machined ones for)
[23:04:08] <Connor> I think the motor in my mini-lathe is going out.. it needs a "push" to get it going..
[23:04:25] <furrywolf> capacitor start?
[23:04:29] <Connor> No.
[23:04:31] <Connor> DC motor.
[23:04:38] <Connor> 7x10 mini lathe.
[23:04:40] <furrywolf> clean brushes?
[23:04:50] <furrywolf> (and commutator)
[23:04:52] <Connor> No.. I haven't.. I could try that..
[23:05:12] <PetefromTn_> that bites
[23:05:14] <Connor> true be known.. I want to get a bigger lathe.. and turn that unit into a 4th axis.. which will require a new motor anyway.
[23:06:42] <furrywolf> dc motors that don't like starting almost always need brushes and the commutator cleaned
[23:07:03] <furrywolf> they also tend to quickly degrade into not starting if you don't address those things. :)
[23:11:14] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You still have that chunk of Alumn and Cast iron I left? :)
[23:11:25] <Connor> You didn't turn it into something did you? :)
[23:12:32] <PetefromTn_> I turned it into a pinata!
[23:12:59] <PetefromTn_> then I tied it to my truck and dragged it behind me for a couple ten miles or so
[23:13:12] <Connor> Ahh.. :(
[23:13:25] <PetefromTn_> finally I welded it to the schools flagpole top I think it is still up there
[23:13:57] <PetefromTn_> you don't seriously think I would use YOUR metal for something for me do ya?
[23:14:20] <Connor> Not on purpose.. :)
[23:14:21] <PetefromTn_> I mean hey I know I am an azzhole.....it is one of my best qualitites
[23:14:39] <PetefromTn_> but I did not think I was THAT big of an azzhole ;)
[23:14:44] <Connor> Nah..
[23:14:55] <Connor> I was looking around for it the other day.. and forgot it was at your place.
[23:16:31] <PetefromTn_> you got a couple pieces here I think..
[23:16:44] <PetefromTn_> I am making picatinny rails right now ;)
[23:16:59] <PetefromTn_> midnight machining makes me merry
[23:17:08] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:17:18] <PetefromTn_> GN8
[23:22:13] * Wolf_Mill wants to make some picatinny rails...
[23:27:58] <PetefromTn_> get er done man!
[23:28:22] <Wolf_Mill> soon, need to find the specs first lol
[23:39:51] <bobo> So Conner & Pete , what is the latest hold up on getting the Cinn vmc tool changer working ?
[23:40:20] <PetefromTn_> latest holdup......PURE LAZINESS!!
[23:43:11] <bobo> don't make me come over there . it will be UGLY
[23:45:07] <bobo> i will bring the Ross P voodo stick with me
[23:50:51] <PetefromTn_> Hell it's ALWAYS ugly over here I ain't scared!
[23:51:32] <PetefromTn_> But right now I gotta get to bed. Talk tomorrow guys have a good night