#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-14

[00:00:44] <renesis> the bend part is neat its not just a revolve
[00:04:57] <XXCoder> revolve first then deform
[00:05:50] <furrywolf> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Y3WNAd7jnW57RelHA2QnniSKBihlKutVfYiHE72gBtsICVnHRT7UnLKQtY0cXfppf_xn_6wHMH5rvVvBNGWEIPPap4WN86PEPNO8aNlnhKyfamzcZ9m92PY yep, there's the red one I have... LOL @ using legos.
[00:06:07] <furrywolf> I guess that's one way to create a custom-shaped mold box.
[00:13:50] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:31:37] <XXCoder> heh
[00:31:49] <XXCoder> first test rocket I orbited and deorbited just fine
[00:31:54] <XXCoder> gonna love ksp
[00:39:07] <renesis> i dunno if i want that
[00:39:27] <renesis> maybe waiting for star citizen
[00:39:44] <renesis> can just watch videos of ksp, heh
[00:40:28] <XXCoder> lol
[00:40:35] <XXCoder> danny makes weird stuff with ksp
[00:40:42] <XXCoder> hes very good on breaking games
[00:41:22] <renesis> who is danny
[00:41:42] <XXCoder> guy on youtube
[00:41:58] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/user/Danny2462
[00:43:24] <renesis> yeah i dont think i need this game
[00:43:41] <renesis> heh
[00:43:42] <XXCoder> lol too bad
[00:44:43] <renesis> it seems like a lot of time invested to hurt little green dudes
[00:45:02] <renesis> i dont think they should have a space program =\
[00:45:30] <XXCoder> well
[00:45:34] <XXCoder> their world is bare
[00:45:39] <XXCoder> theyre bored.
[00:46:06] <XXCoder> bored plant-based life (what else? theres no animals either)
[00:46:18] <XXCoder> they must be immortal too since I once orbited one for few years
[00:47:01] <renesis> heh
[00:47:25] <renesis> put a window so they get some light, seal the pod up real good so they dont dry out
[00:49:38] <XXCoder> even one stuck in orbit says "wow new experence!"
[02:10:51] <Deejay> moin
[02:10:56] <XXCoder> yo
[02:11:14] <Deejay> :)
[02:24:34] <MacGalempsy> heck yeah! finally got the spindle going!
[02:25:01] <MacGalempsy> at least through the setup, not so much through linuxcnc yet
[02:32:22] <XXCoder> cool
[02:38:44] <MacGalempsy> XXCoder: what a major pain in the balls
[02:39:04] <MacGalempsy> but it is going now, so its one step closer to running my first program
[02:40:00] <XXCoder> thats awesome
[06:24:07] <cpresser> 7i77 question: is it possible to scale the analog outputs to +-1V to gain more resolution? even though the input on my servos is -10..+10, the output is nevr larger than +-1V.
[06:24:35] <cpresser> if not, I will build an opamp circuit to scale down the voltage
[07:02:27] <archivist> two resistors :)
[07:02:42] <archivist> or a tim pot
[07:02:45] <archivist> trim
[07:31:51] <cpresser> archivist: might be possible. depending on the input impedance of the amp. i need to do some measurements
[07:46:03] <archivist> as long as the output and input impedances are constant should just work
[07:49:34] <cpresser> if the input impedance isnt high enough the voltage divider might not work.
[07:50:21] <cpresser> the 7i77-output needs a minium load of 2kOhm
[07:51:30] <archivist> 2k pot
[07:51:37] <cpresser> it might be possible the servos have a much higher input impedance. that might explain my problems. anyway, i need to measure it while its running. no need to discuss without more info
[07:52:02] <archivist> or just a 1.8 k R and a 200 ohm
[08:06:18] <ganzuul> Might wanna make sure with a multimeter that the resistors you pick are actually close to your desired values. There can be a big variance.
[08:07:51] <Wolf_> multimeter is somewhat worthless for that sorta testing
[08:08:05] <Wolf_> big variance with them
[08:09:15] <Wolf_> LCR meter w/ kelvin clips imo https://www.dropbox.com/s/svu4o79tioo5ffh/Photo%20Apr%2006%2C%204%2016%2018%20PM.jpg?dl=0
[08:21:25] <Thomaxo> Hey!
[08:21:35] <Thomaxo> does anyone have experience with vacuum tables?
[08:22:43] <Thomaxo> I'd need to make one as it seems they are very handy, compared to clamping at least. Anyone know of a good tutorial explaining the do's and dont's?
[08:23:50] <Wolf_> don’t turn the vac off while cutting?
[08:23:53] <Tom_itx> cut a groove just inside the profile of your part and insert neoprene tubing
[08:24:09] <Tom_itx> seal off any open areas like holes as well
[08:24:48] <Tom_itx> wear ear protection as the vaccuum pump will be quite noisy
[08:25:28] <Tom_itx> avoid sucking coolant into the vaccuum pump
[08:25:34] <Wolf_> hmm, should I risk a used starrett 196 off of eBay, or just cry once and get a new set
[08:26:23] <Tom_itx> risk it
[08:26:31] <SpeedEvil> You can resell if you don't like it
[08:26:33] <Tom_itx> then cry when you still gotta get a new set
[08:26:40] <Wolf_> haha
[08:26:50] <cpresser> Wolf_: depends on the multimeter :) I have a newly callibrated fluke-dmm, its way better as a cheap LCR-meter
[08:26:59] <cpresser> at least for resistors
[08:27:01] <Tom_itx> you know deep down you wanna try that ebay one...
[08:27:36] <Wolf_> well, yeah and its a $140 price diff vs used/new
[08:27:52] <Tom_itx> is it $140 used?
[08:27:59] <Tom_itx> err used up
[08:28:01] <Wolf_> 4104
[08:28:14] <Wolf_> $104
[08:28:43] <Wolf_> $240ish new
[08:29:21] <Thomaxo> neoprene is a smart idea
[08:29:51] <Thomaxo> so basically make a grid, and seal the boundary with neoprene tube
[08:30:50] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eifVwXr7AGk
[08:31:02] <SpeedEvil> Vacuum fixture porn
[08:31:03] <cpresser> Thomaxo: thin MDF is also permeable to air, you can pu that on top as sacrifice layer
[08:31:32] <SpeedEvil> @5:34
[08:32:29] <Tom_itx> Thomaxo, or drill horizontal holes in the sub plate and vertical in a few places to the grid
[08:33:25] <Tom_itx> you want tubing because the vaccuum will squish it down
[08:33:59] <Tom_itx> the your part will lay flat on the fixture
[08:34:03] <Tom_itx> then *
[08:36:42] <Tom_itx> oh and add an inlet filter so no chips get to your pump either
[08:39:13] <Thomaxo> lots of factors to consider :)
[08:39:41] <Tom_itx> you can also double back tape large flat parts
[08:41:14] <SpeedEvil> Or make really silly fixtures like above if you're doing mass production
[08:41:25] <SpeedEvil> o-rings, perimiter seals, ...
[08:42:11] <Thomaxo> mainly using the cnc for architectural modelmaking
[08:42:49] <Tom_itx> what material?
[08:43:14] <cpresser> most of the times i use filets. makes clamping way easier. most parts require manual work anyway, so grinding of a few filets is okay
[08:43:15] <Thomaxo> depends, sometimes wood, cardboard, foam, sometimes i might plug on a 3d print head
[08:43:36] <Tom_itx> so probably no coolant
[08:43:52] <Thomaxo> nope
[08:44:09] <Thomaxo> i'll be using this hobby cnc: https://www.stepcraft-systems.com
[08:44:23] <Thomaxo> eng version: https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/en/
[08:44:52] <Thomaxo> but this is what you're reffering to with the tubing right? http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sx8fAv5f8js/maxresdefault.jpg
[08:45:01] <Tom_itx> i'd probably make a vaccuum grid and tape off the open areas. then you can use it for multiple parts
[08:45:24] <Tom_itx> yes
[08:45:35] <Tom_itx> on wood you could do what he's doing
[08:45:51] <Tom_itx> just seal off the boundaries
[08:46:00] <Tom_itx> and plug any unused holes
[08:46:23] <Thomaxo> it seems to be very handy
[08:46:32] <Tom_itx> so, neoprene tubing or window edge seal and some rubber stoppers
[08:46:54] <Tom_itx> you can get window seal at any home improvement store
[08:47:33] <Thomaxo> this stuff? http://www.mantaline.com/applications/static-window-seals/
[08:47:55] <Tom_itx> no, more the round type
[08:47:57] <Tom_itx> like a tube
[08:48:00] <Thomaxo> ok :)
[08:48:03] <Thomaxo> Thanks!
[08:48:15] <Thomaxo> Any suggestions on the vacuum machine?
[08:48:26] <Thomaxo> Currently the plan is to steal my mom's :P
[08:48:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/screen_bottom.jpg
[08:48:50] <Tom_itx> like i did there to hold the silkscreen in
[08:49:16] <Tom_itx> only your slot won't be as deep
[08:49:19] <cpresser> Thomaxo: make sure its suited to be running longer then 10minutes :)
[08:49:38] <Thomaxo> i see, so the silkscreen helps to keep the vacuum table undamaged?
[08:49:48] <Thomaxo> that's a good idea :)
[08:49:58] <Tom_itx> no, that was another project
[08:50:13] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/materials.jpg
[08:50:16] <archivist> note domestic vacuum use airflow for cooling
[08:50:19] <Tom_itx> that was just to show you the tubing i used
[08:50:24] <Thomaxo> i see :)
[08:50:29] <Thomaxo> Thanks!
[08:50:31] <Tom_itx> in fact i got it free from a local glass company
[08:51:13] <Wolf_> guess I’ll be finding out if that used di is any good :)
[08:51:29] <Tom_itx> it was broken... you didn't see that?
[08:51:29] <archivist> you need a vacuum designed for wet use where the motor has separate cooling
[08:51:53] <Wolf_> yeah, looked broke, needle was stuck at 0
[08:52:19] <Thomaxo> i wont be using water luckily :)
[08:52:30] <archivist> not sure if thay can puul enough vacuum to hold stuff down though
[08:52:41] <Tom_itx> i'd probably grab some 1/8" neoprene tubing and use that
[08:53:00] <Thomaxo> how to deal with the chips that get pulled into the vacuum?
[08:53:14] <Wolf_> now I just need a indicator holder that doesn’t suck
[08:53:16] <Tom_itx> filter
[08:53:20] <archivist> filter before
[08:53:28] <Thomaxo> ah yes
[08:53:31] <Tom_itx> inline filter
[08:53:40] <archivist> eg centrifugal
[08:53:49] <Thomaxo> filter on the right before the "hole" or above the table?
[08:54:04] <Tom_itx> by the hole
[08:54:31] <_methods> noga indicator holders
[08:54:50] <Wolf_> yeah, looking at the DG61003
[08:55:29] <Thomaxo> Thanks for the help!
[08:56:14] <Thomaxo> One last question then :) Anyone got experience with autodesk fusion 360? It seems to good to be true, other CAM software seems messy in comparison..
[08:56:43] <Tom_itx> andy does but he's asleep or working
[08:57:11] <_methods> fusion 360 is good for beginners
[08:57:33] <_methods> fine for 2d and some 3d
[08:57:39] <_methods> but that's about it
[08:57:59] <Thomaxo> sounds good, only have a 3 axis machine (not counting the head)
[08:58:12] <_methods> should be fine then
[08:58:21] <Thomaxo> ok :)
[08:58:23] <_methods> 4 and 5 axis not so much
[08:59:03] <Tom_itx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zB7dbO9pFo
[08:59:06] <Tom_itx> Thomaxo ^^
[09:00:16] <Thomaxo> Thanks!
[09:00:39] <Thomaxo> You just made me remember that i hate the sound of vacuum machines though, hahah :P
[09:01:55] <CaptHindsight> keep cats out of the shop as well
[09:02:13] <Thomaxo> good call
[09:05:32] <Thomaxo> one little complication, what if i mill something away above a hole/gridline ?
[09:05:38] <Thomaxo> wont the vacuum be useless then?
[09:06:04] <Tom_itx> if you inlet holes are large, yes
[09:06:21] <Tom_itx> if you make quite a few small ones, it won't be affected as much
[09:06:50] <Thomaxo> i see, so the more delicate the grid is the better
[09:07:10] <Tom_itx> ideally you don't want leaks
[09:07:19] <Tom_itx> but that would be better yes
[09:07:33] <jdh> size your chips so they plug the holes as they open
[09:08:21] <Thomaxo> you have control over that?
[09:13:21] <SpeedEvil> Thomaxo: see the above video I linked for an elaborate fixture
[09:13:42] <SpeedEvil> Thomaxo: you can arrange it so that all the holes you need to drill have o-rings around them in the fixture, so vacuum is not disturbed
[09:21:22] <Tom_itx> that would limit the holding surface area to the orings
[09:22:40] <ganzuul> https://youtu.be/9LkgHB5bgmc?t=3m
[09:29:45] <ssi> morn
[09:33:34] <SpeedEvil> Tom_itx: err - no
[09:33:49] <SpeedEvil> Tom_itx: the o-ring compresses down due to the force of the work
[09:33:55] <SpeedEvil> into a recessed pocket
[09:34:48] <Thomaxo> having a hard time to understand how it works but i think i get the gist
[09:35:11] <jdh> seems like levelling would syck.
[09:35:26] <Thomaxo> if there if pressure on the balls (by gravity) there is an air gap
[09:35:29] <Thomaxo> else not
[09:35:34] <Thomaxo> or something like that :P
[09:40:17] <_methods> he said pressure on the balls hehe
[09:41:51] <ssi> huhuhuh
[09:44:36] <Thomaxo> lol, whoever had the idea of making onshape? cmon.. cad in the browser?
[09:46:35] <renesis> does it do cam?
[09:46:39] <_methods> that's the hip thing
[09:46:44] <renesis> srs
[09:46:44] <_methods> cloud cad
[09:46:58] <renesis> cloud your family, cloud the cat
[09:47:04] <_methods> to the cloud
[09:47:24] <_methods> cloudification
[09:47:36] <Thomaxo> the video really sells it though :P http://onshape.com
[09:47:55] <Thomaxo> luckily the adobe creative cloud isnt really a cloud
[09:48:26] <_methods> i'm pretty sure none of these things fit the definition for a cloud
[09:49:04] <renesis> cloud = i dunno where my files are but someone else sure as fuck better know
[09:49:23] <_methods> lol
[09:49:24] <Thomaxo> :P
[09:49:27] <renesis> with undelete to infiniti capabilities
[09:49:28] <Thomaxo> onshape does
[09:49:43] <_methods> cloud = a visible mass of condensed water vapor floating in the atmosphere, typically high above the ground.
[09:50:06] <renesis> i thought that was pollution
[09:50:07] <Thomaxo> and thats the only definition it should really have
[09:50:22] <_methods> cloud = pollution lol
[09:50:29] <_methods> especially in china
[09:50:38] <_methods> or in the vicinity of fukushima
[09:56:48] <Thomaxo> the water is still radioactive in those areas, or so i've heard
[09:56:55] <Thomaxo> so there must be radioactive clouds
[11:28:38] <Tom_itx> SpeedEvil what i meant was if you use small o-rings around the inlets that will limit the suction force to those areas instead of a broader area using a perimeter seal
[11:29:01] <SpeedEvil> That's not what I was saying, sorry - unclear.
[11:29:08] <Tom_itx> np
[11:29:17] <Tom_itx> i think we mean the same thing..
[11:29:22] <SpeedEvil> The fixture I linked put o-rings around each to-be-drilled hole in the sheet.
[11:29:45] <SpeedEvil> So the whole uncut sheet was clamped.
[11:29:45] <Tom_itx> ahh ok
[11:30:19] <SpeedEvil> And as the o-rings were recessed in grooves cut into the sheet and compressed flat - the whole surface was clamped
[11:30:32] <Tom_itx> right, i get that part
[11:47:19] * Tom_itx looks at Jymmm because he should know..
[11:47:44] <Tom_itx> how hard is it to transfer a phone from one carrier to another if it has the first carrier's firmware in it?
[11:48:28] <CaptHindsight> is it already unlocked?
[11:48:41] <Tom_itx> unlocked how?
[11:48:50] <Tom_itx> the sim card is deactivated
[11:49:44] <CaptHindsight> phones purchased from carriers in the USA are locked to the carrier so even changing SIM cards won't help you change carriers
[11:50:24] <CaptHindsight> they lock the phone to the carrier, so you have to unlock the firmware to allow other carriers SIM's
[11:50:35] <Tom_itx> so it's not worth buying out the contract to keep the phone
[11:51:39] <CaptHindsight> depends on the phone, but they passed some law about unlocking recently
[11:52:14] <Tom_itx> i've got 2 S4's i'll keep since i own them but 2 S5's have a little time left before i own them
[11:52:45] <CaptHindsight> after the contract is up I believe they are required to give you the unlock codes if you ask
[11:52:57] <Tom_itx> oh?
[11:53:00] <Tom_itx> i'll check on that
[11:53:19] <Tom_itx> so after that any sim will work in it?
[11:53:24] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they don't like people to know that
[11:53:35] <Tom_itx> i'm sure they don
[11:53:36] <Tom_itx> t
[11:54:14] <CaptHindsight> https://www.fcc.gov/device-unlocking-faq
[11:54:17] <Tom_itx> i likely won't use them but would be nice to have in case one broke
[11:55:14] <skunkworks> I got an text from tracpone saying as much
[11:56:36] <Tom_itx> do you need an active sim to unlock it?
[11:56:42] <CaptHindsight> there are a few sites with all the unlocking and rooting info, but they are also full of misinformation and virus laden hacks and tools
[11:57:00] <Tom_itx> i don't care about rooting
[12:00:27] <CaptHindsight> https://gigaom.com/2015/02/11/phone-tablet-unlocking-rules-ctia-verizon-tmobile-sprint-att/ has the contact numbers for getting the unlock codes from each carrier
[12:00:41] <Tom_itx> thanks
[12:05:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: What do I know?
[12:07:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Do you OWN the phone itself? Meaning, is the cost of the phone "paid in full", or was the cost "included" in the duration of the contract?
[12:08:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Which carrier are you on now?
[12:08:44] <Tom_itx> 2 are paid 2 are on contract but nearly paid
[12:09:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ATT ?
[12:09:06] <Tom_itx> att -> sprint
[12:09:11] <Jymmm> Noooooooooo
[12:09:18] <Jymmm> ATT != Sprint
[12:09:33] <Jymmm> Sprint is CDMA, no sim cards
[12:09:45] <Jymmm> ATT and TMOBILE are GSM == SIM Card
[12:10:04] <Tom_itx> so what does that mean to me?
[12:10:11] <Tom_itx> can't use these phones?
[12:10:13] <CaptHindsight> most new chipsets do both, but you usually have to modify firmware to make that kind of carrier change
[12:10:14] <Jymmm> So you have Sprint, yes?
[12:10:20] <Tom_itx> now
[12:10:33] <Jymmm> What was it before?
[12:10:37] <Tom_itx> att
[12:10:47] <CaptHindsight> GSM --> CDMA
[12:11:06] <Tom_itx> i'm not worried about it either way, just thought i'd keep these if they were useful
[12:11:17] <Tom_itx> got 4 new s6
[12:11:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Sprint doens't use SIM Cards, they are CDMA.
[12:11:33] <Tom_itx> mkay
[12:11:35] <CaptHindsight> might work, have to try or read if the S4. S5 support both out of the box
[12:11:52] <Tom_itx> well either way i'll keep the s4's
[12:11:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Which means you have to call them to have them switch over accounts/numbers and such
[12:11:55] <Tom_itx> i own them
[12:12:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You could always sell them and get what you want.
[12:12:17] <Tom_itx> i have what i want
[12:12:26] <Tom_itx> i was just gonna keep them as a spare
[12:12:32] <CaptHindsight> GSM carrier to GSM carrier is just a SIM card swap if it's unlocked
[12:12:38] <Jymmm> I LUST SIM Cards. it takes 30s to swap out on new/defective phones.
[12:12:51] <Tom_itx> i'll likely keep the s4s and turn the s5s in
[12:12:54] <Jymmm> no calling anybody, no bullshit of any kinda.
[12:13:25] <Tom_itx> how bad is samsung on warranties?
[12:14:27] <Jymmm> are they broken?
[12:14:32] <CaptHindsight> people in Asia and Europe wouldn't believe me when I'd tell them about our locked phones
[12:14:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: lol
[12:14:44] <Tom_itx> not exactly.. one screen flickers a bit on power down
[12:14:54] <archivist> they can be locked in the UK as well
[12:14:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: like a loose connection?
[12:15:01] <Tom_itx> it started after a firmware update
[12:15:02] <Tom_itx> no
[12:15:08] <Tom_itx> was fine before the update
[12:15:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: They might ask you to reflash/erase everything and start over with it first
[12:15:42] <Tom_itx> i factory reset them all
[12:16:08] <Jymmm> (And technically, there is no such thing as a "full factory erase" under android, there is ALWAYS persoanl residue left over, especially photos)
[12:16:36] <Jymmm> Even doing the encryption / wipe doens't fully erase everything under android.
[12:17:05] <Tom_itx> meh, i don't put things on there i don't want out
[12:17:15] <Tom_itx> i figure it's out there somewhere anyway
[12:17:17] <Jymmm> Well, just sayin.
[12:17:23] <Tom_itx> on a cloud just floating around :D
[12:17:33] <Jymmm> Yeah, let's not go there.
[12:17:38] <Tom_itx> hah
[12:17:43] <Tom_itx> gotta run..
[12:17:44] <Tom_itx> bbl
[12:18:01] <Jymmm> Remember, google knows every wifi password in the world =)
[12:18:16] <Tom_itx> no doubt
[12:18:25] <CaptHindsight> hah, I don't use a password for wifi!
[12:18:40] <Jymmm> and that the microphone doens't have an OFF switch =)
[12:18:52] <CaptHindsight> just like no root PW for Ubuntu
[12:19:09] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, you CAN, but...
[12:32:46] <Jymmm> Blue Lava http://www.weather.com/photos/news/blue-fire-crater-reuben-wu-kawah-ijen-indonesia
[12:32:59] <ssi> whoa
[12:34:12] <Jymmm> Totally cool =)
[12:34:19] <ssi> yeahh
[12:47:59] <roycroft> that's what the volcanos on vulcan do
[12:48:13] <Jymmm> bleed blood?
[12:48:30] <roycroft> yes
[12:50:21] * ganzuul bought a 30e shopvac
[12:54:40] <ganzuul> And lube!
[12:54:55] <ganzuul> lithium/moly EP
[12:55:02] <ganzuul> And cuttin'ol
[12:55:32] <ganzuul> And this cool folding pocket knife / carpet knife
[12:56:46] <fenn> please let's keep this channel family oriented
[12:57:02] <fenn> no need to share your shop kinks ok
[12:57:30] <ganzuul> I also bought a mini hacksaw!
[12:58:00] <enleth> ganzuul: see if it's possible to buy Starmix iPulse shopvacs in your area in case you need another one.
[12:59:28] <enleth> I have one and it was worth every penny out of horribly many pennies required to buy it
[13:00:05] <fenn> i'd rather have an external dust cyclone separator that fits onto a bucket
[13:00:06] <ganzuul> Oooh, it shakes its filter clean while in use?
[13:00:19] <enleth> Yep.
[13:01:01] <ganzuul> I looked at a bigger shopvac which looked like a centrifugal separator. Luckily I opened it. Nozzle pointed straight down.
[13:01:32] <ganzuul> It'd cost them nothing at all to turn the nozzle 90 degrees... but no.
[13:01:41] <Jymmm> fenn: And how do you think familys are created? DUH
[13:02:07] <fenn> in family factories?
[13:02:16] <fenn> by robots
[13:02:19] <Jymmm> and facories also need lube
[13:02:23] <Jymmm> always*
[13:02:51] <enleth> ganzuul: plastrr dust? Meh. Chips mixed with coolant? Bitch please. Demolition rubble? Chunks just zipped through the hose.
[13:03:08] <fenn> http://www.fanuc.co.jp/en/profile/production/factory1.html
[13:03:13] <Jymmm> Are acetylene tanks CGA-580??
[13:03:32] <enleth> The sucker (heh heh) is indestructible and will devour everything.
[13:03:45] <Jymmm> Can they accept inert gases is what I'm asking.
[13:03:55] <Jymmm> nitrogen, argon, co2, etc
[13:04:24] <Wolf_> acetylene tanks are for acetylene…
[13:04:42] <enleth> Oh, and it sounds like a Nazi WW2 anti-air cannon when cleaning the filters.
[13:04:45] <ganzuul> This knife thing is awesome... Cuts through indestructible plastic packaging like nothing.
[13:05:21] <lair82> pcw_home, just got that new MB in you recommended, see how things go with it. That things a monster compared to the mini itx board it is replacing, defineitly going to need a shoe horn to get that bad boy onto my control board.
[13:05:32] <ganzuul> http://www.biltema.fi/fi/Tyokalut/Kasityokalut/Puukot-ja-Hoylat/Taitettava-yleisveitsi-2000021812/
[13:05:47] <Jymmm> lair82: I suggest an angle grinder and cutoff blade =)
[13:06:21] <lair82> Yeah, and I am going to need to find my wire stretchers
[13:06:36] <Jymmm> lair82: You left them next to the board stretchers
[13:06:55] <ganzuul> Acetylene tanks are special snowflakes with sensitive feelings.
[13:07:07] <Jymmm> ganzuul: like yourself?
[13:07:10] <lair82> Yep, rofl
[13:07:19] <ganzuul> ofc
[13:07:24] <Wolf_> http://www.ehss.vt.edu/programs/CGC_cylinders.php
[13:08:11] <lair82> I like that one ganzuul, going to have to remember that
[13:08:58] <ganzuul> the pocket knife?
[13:09:58] <fenn> you call that a cutter
[13:10:03] <fenn> THIS is a cutter http://www.biltema.fi/fi/Tyokalut/Sahkotyokalut/Vannesahat/Metallivannesaha-MBS-1435-2000036460/
[13:10:13] <lair82> no, 'ofc'
[13:10:39] <ganzuul> :<
[13:10:57] <fenn> that bandsaw is a good design actually
[13:11:30] <fenn> you could attach a table to use it in vertical mode, i wonder why it doesn't come with that by default
[13:11:37] <ganzuul> I was surprised how much cheap stuff with excellent quality they have these days.
[13:16:10] <ganzuul> Oh and a set of tiny files.
[13:16:48] <kengu> lots of things
[13:17:17] <ganzuul> Yeah... Left having spent much less money than I intended to
[13:18:40] <ganzuul> This lube is really... luby.
[13:22:02] <Deejay> :)
[13:25:08] <furrywolf> acetylene tanks are not like any other tanks. do not use them for anything else.
[13:25:19] <furrywolf> for starters, they're solid in the middle. :P
[13:25:40] <Wolf_> full of wolf fluff
[13:27:47] <Praesmeodymium> arent they packed with clay or something? somewhere for the acetylene yo hang out and not try and interact with the metal walls or some such? I was told in HS so god knows how accurate that is
[13:28:14] <furrywolf> yep
[13:28:26] <furrywolf> it's also dissolved in acetone in the clay
[13:28:49] <furrywolf> (think co2 bubbling out of a carbonated soda)
[13:28:52] <Praesmeodymium> yeah similar to metastable bubbles of co2 in soda
[13:29:15] <Wolf_> http://www.ehss.vt.edu/programs/CGC_cylinders.php < gas bottle info
[13:29:59] <Wolf_> even has a acetylene bottle cut in half
[13:30:17] <ganzuul> Effective vac! Also has a detachable screen on the filter... Smart.
[13:31:35] * SpeedEvil wonders if liquid acetylene is stable.
[13:31:43] <SpeedEvil> (at -90C or wahtever)
[13:32:07] <SpeedEvil> I suppose it's analogous to H2O2
[13:32:57] <ganzuul> If your acetylene bottle falls over, you might have to take it outside and call the fire dept. If it's hot after... IIRC 30 min, you have a problem.
[13:33:10] <furrywolf> h2o2... explodes for no reason no matter what you do? :)
[13:33:12] <ganzuul> So some sort of chemical reaction does go on
[13:35:40] <ganzuul> Dumping it in a river might work!
[13:38:15] <ganzuul> AFAIK this should be covered by hot work license training.
[13:39:33] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: no
[13:39:39] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: only if it's contaminated.
[13:39:46] <SpeedEvil> It's also a tertiary explosive
[13:39:58] <SpeedEvil> (at high concentration)
[13:58:24] <CaptHindsight> heh http://www.drinkh2o2.com/
[13:59:23] <ganzuul> HHO.
[13:59:38] <ganzuul> If you got it from water.
[14:00:42] <CaptHindsight> but this more Oxygen HHOO so it must be one better since oxygen is good for you
[14:01:45] <ganzuul> More better.
[14:02:32] <ganzuul> Do electrolytic water splitters produce H2O2 as a by-product?
[14:03:16] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: but but but double the hydrogen is even better =)
[14:03:24] <Jymmm> ...that oxygen =)
[14:03:38] <Jymmm> then*
[14:03:45] <Jymmm> than* BAH
[14:03:58] <CaptHindsight> I think if you take one bucket of water and pour it into two buckets (effectively splitting it) you have water in both buckets
[14:04:25] <CaptHindsight> someone should apply for funding to test
[14:04:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: KICKSTART!!!
[14:05:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Are you sure you wont have oxygen in one bucket, and hydrogen in the other two buckets?
[14:07:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I think that happens after a few days in a dry area. Ever notice how standing water disappears after a few days. But I could be wrong.
[14:11:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I thought that was due to helium encapsulating it and then lifting into the sky?
[14:12:10] <Jymmm> Crap, the service pole mfr doesn't have a lockout plate available =(
[14:12:14] <ganzuul> http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/Taig_Nut.jpg
[14:31:47] <fenn> i received the "hobby box" of fortal 7075 aluminum just now; it's a much smaller amount than from mousebar, but bigger individual blocks. this particular box contained two 1x3x8 plates, a 3/4x4x6 plate, a 2x2x8 bar, and a 1.5x1.5x10 bar
[14:32:40] <fenn> this is from ebay seller scottkrez
[14:35:08] <fenn> also got a medium flat rate box completely full of delrin cutoffs, plates and blocks just like in the picture http://www.ebay.com/itm/Assorted-Plastic-Delrin-Acetal-Lot-White-Black-sheet-block-100-pieces-CNC-/400992854172
[14:36:54] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, Hey, jumpy printable robots http://www.techbriefs.tv/video/Jumping-3D-Printed-Robot-with-R;Machinery-Automation
[14:37:30] <tjtr33> maybe for squishy stuff that cant be machined very well, this 3D print idea has a place
[14:38:21] <Wolf_> that box of delrin drop looks pretty handy
[14:41:57] <Praesmeodymium> I can get delrin scrap that looks like that by the pound from the local tap plastics, not quite as cheap as that box for sure
[14:42:02] <ganzuul> Hobby box... :o I want one.
[14:45:37] <fenn> it's 10.5 pounds of delrin
[14:46:25] <Wolf_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Plate-Hobby-Box-Block-Bar-15-Pounds-Aircraft-Quality-/141688901270 that the alum?
[14:46:29] <fenn> yes
[14:47:21] <Wolf_> $68 dollar box sounds nice too
[14:47:50] <fenn> i'm not sure if the aluminum hobby box is much better than just buying the size you need
[14:48:13] <Wolf_> its nice when you have no drop built up
[14:48:28] <fenn> there are only 5 pieces, it would be easy enough to cut them, but not quite the same as 100 pieces of different sizes
[14:50:17] <Wolf_> I missed the alum at my local scrap yard, went out 2 days before I stopped in, only got about 30lbs of 16mm bar stock, 2 short tubes and 3 alum oxygen cylinders
[14:51:31] <fenn> yeah i have not been having much luck with scrap yards around here, either they are hoarders and charge $3/lb or they are loading ships to china and won't let me in
[14:51:58] <fenn> found a steel supplier that will let me pick A36 drops for pretty cheap
[14:52:31] <Wolf_> well, he was also closing up for good :( and was low on cash and I dropped off 90lbs of lead acid batteries
[14:52:56] <fenn> so where did all the metal go?
[14:53:52] <_methods> swing by a local machine shop with a case of beer
[14:53:54] <Wolf_> from the scrap yard? sold it, was a smaller scrap dealer, most of his stuff was doing wire and alum
[14:54:01] <_methods> they'll let you dig through the scrap usually
[14:55:09] <Wolf_> yeah, I got a ton of DOM square tube and odd plate drop from one place I did snow removal at, just asked and the boss there said have at it
[14:55:16] <_methods> yeah
[14:55:34] <_methods> they might get kinda touchy about brass/copper
[14:55:39] <_methods> but anything else is fair game
[14:59:09] <SpeedEvil> Very few people I think would object to paying a sizeable fraction of spot price
[14:59:35] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: or print the squishy materials and then bond to the machined parts
[15:00:19] <CaptHindsight> even if 3D printer with inkjet the two materials have to either be bonded or fastened to each other
[15:00:30] <CaptHindsight> printer/printed
[15:04:21] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: looks like they are researching the transition between soft and hard materials
[15:04:59] <CaptHindsight> "The top hemisphere is 3D-printed in once piece and has nine different layers of stiffness, creating a structure that goes from rubber-like flexibility on the exterior to full rigidity near to core."
[15:05:38] <CaptHindsight> easy with inkjet
[15:08:12] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=31&v=CD41k9IjnS0 CF weaver-bot
[15:09:16] <CaptHindsight> more of a non-planar laminator
[15:10:55] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: ^^ the parts in that video are similar to what the big lathe type printer was all about
[15:11:15] <fenn> really sturdy and huge arm
[15:11:54] <CaptHindsight> only the parts were 6-7m long
[15:12:02] <ganzuul> Could one use a deriative of the process whiich makes concrete harden to make a ceramic 3D printer?
[15:12:12] <CaptHindsight> sure
[15:12:28] <fenn> ceramic and concrete are totally different processes
[15:12:44] <fenn> one is thermal and one is chemical
[15:12:51] <ganzuul> Yeah but concrete heats up.
[15:13:00] <fenn> heh not really
[15:13:02] <CaptHindsight> from the chemistry point of view, but deposition can be similar
[15:13:08] <ganzuul> Maybe have something which heats up so it fuses.
[15:13:22] <fenn> thermite
[15:13:34] <ganzuul> Don't wanna fuse the machine to the floor.
[15:14:31] <ganzuul> Concrete does heat up. The heat comes from the crystallization process.
[15:14:51] <fenn> ceramic is held at glowing red hot temperatures for days...
[15:15:36] <CaptHindsight> what about a ceramic concrete composite? :p
[15:15:47] <_methods> dog poo?
[15:15:56] <fenn> dog poo heats up
[15:16:03] <_methods> hehe
[15:16:05] <CaptHindsight> and it can be fired
[15:16:15] <CaptHindsight> so it's likely both
[15:16:21] <_methods> on your neighbors porch in a paper bag
[15:16:22] <fenn> yep dog poo is an important ingredient in fire brick
[15:17:30] <fenn> "fire brick" sounds like something from minecraft, not an actual material
[15:17:53] <CaptHindsight> how do dogs convert Alpo into firebrick?
[15:18:47] <fenn> well it's 50% clay to begin with
[15:19:02] <fenn> they just remove the impurities
[15:20:01] <CaptHindsight> this already sounds like a thread on the reprap.org forums
[15:20:40] <CaptHindsight> canine working group
[15:21:26] * furrywolf sees a mention of canines, and wanders back to see what's up
[15:23:04] <fenn> "I having recently built my own forge as my fathers idea of a right of passage, used my fathers secret recipe to create the bricks and slabs of refractory materials. However , as I will not divulge my future son's inheritance, I have created another recipe which I have tested and have found quite suitable for a coal or gas forge.
[15:23:11] <fenn> dog poo is the secret ingredient
[15:24:43] <fenn> sorry to take all the magic and mystery out of this world...
[15:25:27] <cradek> Right of passage, in international law, means a country's right for its ships to pass through the territorial seas of foreign states
[15:26:27] <CaptHindsight> could be his father lived in another country
[15:26:31] <fenn> in america you pass on the left
[15:27:07] <XXCoder> fenn: rite of passage is better words I think
[15:29:29] <CaptHindsight> how much was the Bill of Rites?
[15:30:14] <ssi> this conversation is completely off the rails
[15:30:34] <fenn> that's what happens when you pass on the wrong side
[15:31:47] <PetefromTn_> I don't even know what the hell everyone is talking about ;)
[15:32:08] <Wolf_Mill> trains I think
[15:32:11] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: you
[15:32:18] <PetefromTn_> you what?
[15:32:50] <PetefromTn_> of course they are all talking about me, what else could possibly be more interesting than ME??!!
[15:32:58] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[15:33:00] <XXCoder> yep lol
[15:36:14] <fenn> i bet calcium aluminate could be fired after being extruded/cured and be nearly as good as pure alumina
[15:36:27] <fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_aluminate_cements
[15:36:31] <XXCoder> expensive way
[15:38:52] <SpeedEvil> you can densify gels of AlO to get near fully dense alumina
[15:39:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027288420800165X
[15:39:14] <Praesmeodymium> there was a reasearch paper I cant find atm that was using bacteria in an inkjet style powder printer to fuse a concrete
[15:39:39] <SpeedEvil> Only problem with that process is you need to cure it at ~1300C
[15:40:17] * PetefromTn_ PetefromTn STILL does not know what everyone is talking about :D
[15:40:30] * furrywolf wonders if you can simple glue-gun-style aluminum in an inert atmosphere
[15:40:33] <furrywolf> simply
[15:41:27] <fenn> wow 20% shrinkage on firing the alumina gel
[15:42:44] <_methods> i think it was about dog poo
[15:42:55] <furrywolf> hrmm, that's almost worth trying... why can't you just build a 3d printer in a kiln that extrudes aluminum under argon? :)
[15:43:00] <_methods> and quite possibly could have been my fault
[15:43:48] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: slumping is going to be a bitch
[15:43:58] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: but there are ones doing it under vacuum
[15:44:42] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: no worse than plastic... you just have to keep the right temperatures. maybe a fan to cool it faster.
[15:44:44] <CaptHindsight> laser sinter aluminum powder in an inert atmosphere
[15:45:26] <fenn> Praesmeodymium: was it this? http://www.magnuslarsson.com/architecture/dune.asp
[15:45:49] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: I'm trying to avoid lasers. anything involving lasers becomes really expensive. same with anything involving powder metallurgy...
[15:45:59] <_methods> http://www.syracuse.com/us-news/index.ssf/2015/09/report_kids_are_getting_drunk_on_hand_sanitizer_poison_control_reports_reach_ove.html
[15:46:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.google.com/patents/US7517492 Processes for sintering aluminum and aluminum alloy components
[15:46:13] <_methods> all we had was soap when i was a kid wtf
[15:46:31] <_methods> and lead paint chips
[15:46:46] <CaptHindsight> can you get drunk off of bar soap as well?
[15:47:12] <_methods> i don't know but i used to eat it pre-emptively in case my mom decided to wash my mouth out
[15:47:16] <_methods> i had to be prepared
[15:47:35] <Praesmeodymium> fenn: while it was not that I could totally see it being related that was the type acretion process the bacteria in question was using I remember something like 20 minutes for a part to harden and days later it was stillgetting slowly stronger
[15:47:47] <CaptHindsight> or "for next time you do something wrong"
[15:47:56] <_methods> hehe
[15:48:03] <furrywolf> one of my coworkers had to go pick his kid up from school... because said kid brought a bottle of vodka to school, drunk it during class, then threw up on the floor.
[15:48:48] <SpeedEvil> 6, or 16?
[15:48:57] <cradek> 27
[15:49:05] <furrywolf> whatever a high school freshman is. 13?
[15:49:31] <cradek> 14-15 I think
[15:49:36] <CaptHindsight> we weren't allowed to drink during class when I was in HS
[15:49:55] <furrywolf> ... so you can suffer from dehydration?
[15:49:59] <fenn> were you at least allowed to throw up on the floor?
[15:50:34] <CaptHindsight> how else do you get the guy with sawdust and a shovel to visit the room?
[15:51:00] <fenn> all part of the escape plan
[15:55:14] <andypugh> What’s the polite way to say “bugger off and come back when you have a clue”? http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/29624-5-axis-parport-stepper-setup-with-rtcp?start=30#62578
[15:56:31] <fenn> "please bugger off and come back when you have a clue"
[15:57:00] <furrywolf> "May I suggest, dear cheap, that you peruse the find manual that came with your product and rejoin the conversation after achieving an understanding of it? tally ho!"
[15:57:32] <furrywolf> s/cheap/chap
[15:59:36] <furrywolf> meh. I'm hungry, but it's a stupidly dark dreary day, which makes me have no energy, and I don't have the motivation to deal with food.
[15:59:39] * furrywolf IRCs instead
[16:00:14] <cradek> that's probably the easiest kins system there is, but only if you understand spherical coordinates and recognize that's what's going on there
[16:00:28] <andypugh> Take revenge by making the pizza guy come out in the dark dreariness and bring you pizza.
[16:00:29] <cradek> but yeah if you take away parameters it ain't gonna build anymore
[16:00:57] <andypugh> He doesn’t even seem to get that he has to recompile...
[16:01:11] <furrywolf> only one pizza guy will drive all the way out here, and the required tip is about the same amount as the pizza.
[16:01:24] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: are you anywhere near the devastating forest fires on the national news?
[16:01:24] <cradek> that's tough. it's probably a lot of new things at once.
[16:01:29] <furrywolf> and it's not cheap pizza.
[16:02:16] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: no, I'm towards the coast. one of my friends, however, had half his property burn, and another was spared but just barely. (fire got to about a half mile from his ranch before they stopped it... he had to evacuate his livestock)
[16:02:30] <andypugh> cradek: OK, you have about doubled my sympathy levels. I guess if you hear that LinuxCNC can do 5-axis kins you might be surprised to find that you need to be a C-programmer to do it.
[16:03:30] <furrywolf> no fire here, just things getting randomly covered in ash.
[16:03:59] <PetefromTn_> I thought LinuxCNC could do 5 axis kins?
[16:04:39] <cradek> it can, and there are lots of examples that might not quite be what your machine needs
[16:04:39] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf you need to get one of these egg grills like I got and wood fire your own pizza
[16:04:59] <cradek> the "problem" is that it can control any shape of machine
[16:05:00] <PetefromTn_> I would be content with 3+1 ;)
[16:05:52] <furrywolf> I think I have that machine pictured in my head, but I'm not sure. that's a weird one.
[16:06:53] <furrywolf> I guess it's similar to what I wanted to do, using my rotary table to give me a machining area twice the size of my linear travel.
[16:08:51] <cradek> c.y = r * 1 * 1;
[16:08:57] <cradek> that is exceedingly unlikely to be right
[16:09:05] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5200889122.html you think they'd take $1500? LOL
[16:09:45] <furrywolf> lol
[16:10:06] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: what keeps the eggs from falling down through the grate? http://www.biggreenegg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/products-xl-with-mates.jpg
[16:10:30] <furrywolf> that seems a bit expensive.
[16:10:38] <furrywolf> given as nice cnc turning centers go for less.
[16:10:53] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight you have to crack em first ;)
[16:11:57] <furrywolf> gah, I hate dark dreary days.
[16:12:54] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: http://imgur.com/gallery/piON6JG - low power lighting
[16:13:50] <furrywolf> you need to plate the legs with dissimilar metals. duh? :P
[16:14:40] <furrywolf> now I'm tempted to do that, find a small currant, and demonstrate it working... :P
[16:16:26] * furrywolf wonders what the highest voltage you can get from easily-platable metals is, and is it greater than the Vf of a red led
[16:17:30] <furrywolf> I probably have some cad-plated bolts... I could nickel one leg and cad the the other... but that's still 1.2V.
[16:18:00] <SpeedEvil> well, zinc can be dipped pretty easily
[16:18:31] <SpeedEvil> zinc-lead?
[16:19:03] <fenn> whatever it is, it has to be higher than the LED's forward voltage
[16:19:31] * fenn reads
[16:21:15] <furrywolf> zinc-silver might be the easiest to do at home with a >red led Vf.
[16:23:24] <furrywolf> it'd be close though.
[16:23:28] <furrywolf> might not be enough voltage
[16:25:10] <CaptHindsight> how long would a red LED with a 0.7Vf stay on?
[16:27:16] <furrywolf> would need to be an IR LED...
[16:27:45] <CaptHindsight> what if you plated one leg of the led with zinc and the other with silver?
[16:28:12] <PCW> plate one with lithium
[16:28:17] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I think that is quite cheap for a 10EE isn’t it?
[16:28:36] <andypugh> Ah, it’s a turret, that’s why
[16:35:19] <Deejay> gn8
[16:38:02] <Wolf_Mill> cool http://i.imgur.com/6h18AtY.jpg
[16:39:20] <andypugh> It’s like a milling machine, only smaller.
[16:40:29] <Jymmm> HF mill/drill press
[16:40:31] <furrywolf> lol
[16:40:36] <furrywolf> it's larger than my sherline.
[16:41:08] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html
[16:42:19] <Praesmeodymium> where do I plug in the computer?
[16:42:20] <Wolf_Mill> Jymmm: that HF is a x2...
[16:42:29] <Praesmeodymium> lol manual milling is a lost art
[16:42:35] <Wolf_Mill> mine is a x1
[16:42:51] <Praesmeodymium> well lost on me anyway I bet many pros are in here
[16:43:34] <Wolf_Mill> manual milling on one of these chinese mini things is a excercise in fustration
[16:44:11] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=70&v=0lVPB3HI9Wg that's why you evacuate before the fire gets there...
[16:44:29] <furrywolf> grr, didn't mean to paste a time
[16:44:36] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lVPB3HI9Wg
[16:45:53] <Jymmm> furrywolf: where's anderson springs?
[16:46:14] <furrywolf> a few hours south of here
[16:46:16] <furrywolf> I think.
[16:46:22] <malcom2073> Fun
[16:46:50] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Lake County... http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents_details_info?incident_id=1226
[16:46:57] <malcom2073> That guy is mad lucky heh
[16:47:55] <malcom2073> furrywolf: You in any danger?
[16:48:08] <Jymmm> I think that's the area our friends had to evacute and leave their horse behind.
[16:49:04] <andypugh> Couldn’t they have at least given the horse the chance to run?
[16:49:29] <andypugh> (Maybe they did)
[16:49:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: They did/do... CalFire tells them to just leave the gate/stall open
[16:49:42] <furrywolf> malcom2073: no
[16:49:51] <andypugh> yeah, pretty much all you can do I guess :-(
[16:50:05] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtMOp0bCpkM part 2 of same video
[16:50:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think a neighbor had a trailer and was still up there and is/was going to try to get her horse out
[16:51:09] <Jymmm> All that smoke reminds me I need to get fog lights installed
[16:51:44] <malcom2073> heh
[16:52:45] * furrywolf wonders what the o2 percentage is on that road
[16:52:53] <Jymmm> furrywolf: FUCK ME, part tw is scarry as hell
[16:53:30] <malcom2073> Do the fires typically burn through enough for the trees to fall down? Be bad if the road was blocked at that point
[16:53:51] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Trees fall just in the winter
[16:54:07] <furrywolf> malcom2073: yes, they go
[16:54:11] <moorbo> any of you order a pocketnc
[16:54:30] <furrywolf> no. I don't need a cnc machine that would fit in my chuck. :P
[16:54:46] <Jymmm> Heh, the hell with a nylon tow rope to pull a fallen tree out of the way =)
[16:54:51] <malcom2073> moorbo: Isn't that vapourware?
[16:55:22] <moorbo> well if it is, they definitely have been maching a lot of alu
[16:55:29] <moorbo> machining*
[16:55:41] <malcom2073> they got a hell of a marketing department, so yeah
[16:55:52] <moorbo> some guy and his wife.
[16:55:53] <moorbo> I guess
[16:56:09] <moorbo> i'd suggest checking out their website
[16:56:12] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Damnit, now you makin me go all redneck and install a which and gapiling hook on mu suv =)
[16:56:16] <malcom2073> Oh I have.
[16:56:30] <Jymmm> winch*
[16:56:42] <moorbo> so why is it vapourware then
[16:56:51] <moorbo> or is this just bad trolling
[16:57:14] <furrywolf> ok... someone asks a perfectly reasonable question, and the response is to accuse him of trolling.
[16:57:15] <furrywolf> no help for you.
[16:57:22] <malcom2073> And at that, I'm done
[16:57:26] <moorbo> I didn't ask for help
[16:57:52] <andypugh> It’s Kickstarter and not due to be delivered yet. That’s not the same as vapourware.
[16:58:18] <malcom2073> andypugh: Yeah I mistook it for another kickstarter heh
[16:58:47] <moorbo> ah
[16:58:51] <malcom2073> I have other thoughts about it, but to avoid being accused of being a troll, I'll be quiet
[16:59:01] <andypugh> Unlike, possibly, my Oscilloscope watch: Estimated delivery November 2013. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/920064946/oscilloscope-watch/description
[16:59:08] <malcom2073> hehe
[16:59:14] <moorbo> I accused you of being a troll for going on about something you just admitted you didn't know about.
[16:59:19] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You're still a troll either way.
[16:59:32] <roycroft> since when has being quiet and not saying or contributing anything stopped people from being called trolls?
[16:59:36] <moorbo> but anyways, thats fine.
[16:59:39] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Yeah, but if I'm gonna be accused of trolling, it might as well be when I'm actually trolling
[16:59:40] <malcom2073> :P
[16:59:42] <Wolf_Mill> most kickstarters fall somewhere between scam and vaporware IMO
[17:00:01] <Wolf_Mill> least till the item is on your desk
[17:00:21] <andypugh> malcom2073: Here is a simple questionaire: 1) Do you live under a bridge? 2) Goats: Cute or tasty?
[17:00:24] <furrywolf> agreed. I do not use kickstarter. and even the real products aren't priced any better than retail.
[17:00:30] <malcom2073> My guess: moorbo backed that KS, and takes offence to anyone questioning it
[17:00:35] <moorbo> no
[17:00:46] <Jymmm> malcom2073: No, I didn't say trolling, I said troll, as in green, ugly, and sleeps under brudges
[17:00:47] <moorbo> I wanted to know if anyone did, and was getting more updates
[17:00:54] <moorbo> than what they post on their website
[17:00:54] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Hey now, I don't sleep udner bridges
[17:00:58] <malcom2073> under*
[17:01:01] <andypugh> I have backed a bunch of Kickstarters. Happy so far. Not even too upset about the watch, the guy is actually still working at it.
[17:01:11] <MacGalempsy> good afternoon guys
[17:01:20] <furrywolf> anyone back the capacitor battery? :P
[17:01:32] <Jymmm> malcom2073: http://img.artpal.com/14178/5-14-7-27-14-42-38m.jpg
[17:01:43] <Praesmeodymium> and goat is the most popular meat in the world
[17:02:11] <Jymmm> metallica or pvc conduit; why one over the other?
[17:02:13] <_methods> goatse is the most popular meat in the world?
[17:02:19] <Wolf_Mill> I almost did the ez3d printer, but ended up doing pre-order on their website, and cancled for full refund about a month before they went under
[17:02:22] <malcom2073> Metallica, rock on
[17:02:25] <Jymmm> _methods: SMF
[17:02:32] <_methods> hahah
[17:04:06] <Praesmeodymium> I think people should read this one before funding a printer http://www.inside3dp.com/low-cost-3d-printers-crowdfunding-suicide/
[17:04:06] <furrywolf> so, people build storm chaser vehicles to get video inside tornados... why does no one have a fire chaser vehicle? heavily armored with fireproof and insulating materials, air-independent propulsion, some kind of backup metal wheel in case the tires burn...
[17:04:47] <MacGalempsy> so last night, I was finally able to get my spindle going via the re232 link and external laptop.
[17:05:00] <malcom2073> Eh, 3d printers is a oversaturated market
[17:05:42] <andypugh> malcom2073: I disagree. It doesn’t contain a single adequate printer.
[17:05:50] <malcom2073> andypugh: There's no market for them
[17:06:08] <Wolf_Mill> for a good cheap printer?
[17:06:20] <malcom2073> For what a machinest would consider an "adequate" printer
[17:06:42] <furrywolf> I want a part within .002 with no porosity.
[17:06:53] <malcom2073> See? :P
[17:07:02] <Wolf_Mill> and made out of metal
[17:07:20] <malcom2073> I built an adequate printer, but it is in no way economical
[17:07:38] <Wolf_Mill> my kit was over $700...
[17:07:56] <malcom2073> Mine, if you bougth the parts brand new, woudl be over $10k
[17:08:19] <Sync> I consider stereo litho printers very adequate for what they are worth
[17:08:26] <Sync> for quick prototypes they are really neat
[17:08:59] <_methods> well you guys should be more respectful of the reprap crew they invented cnc
[17:09:13] <Wolf_Mill> hah
[17:09:16] <Wolf_Mill> wut?
[17:09:19] <malcom2073> Jymmm: ^^^ quality trolling
[17:09:25] <malcom2073> Take notes, for I am a bad example
[17:09:25] <malcom2073> ;)
[17:09:32] <_methods> heheh
[17:10:20] <Wolf_Mill> I found a emc iso from like 10 years ago on one of my harddrives
[17:10:22] <malcom2073> _methods: Make fun of them as you may, but they're the reason you can get a workable 3d printer for $400
[17:10:56] * _methods will continue to ridicule the reptards
[17:11:18] <malcom2073> That's unfortunate only for you
[17:12:06] <Wolf_Mill> I learned a lot from my reprap
[17:12:22] <Wolf_Mill> like ABS + cold weather sucks
[17:12:29] <andypugh> A friend built a nice DLP printer for his tiny parts. I think he has it working now. I wrote an Autodesk-inventor native slicer for him.
[17:13:49] <PetefromTn_> everything I have ever seen of the reprap croud has been either false, misrepresented, or downright plagairized
[17:14:41] <_methods> cough makerbot cough
[17:15:18] <malcom2073> Isn't tormach doing something similar with linuxcnc?
[17:15:19] <_methods> i think malcom2073 might actually be bre pettis
[17:15:30] <malcom2073> Man I wish, I'd have enough money to get my mill running then :P
[17:15:36] <_methods> hahah
[17:15:51] <_methods> well at least you have your 3d printer to keep you warm
[17:16:02] <PetefromTn_> heh pretty much
[17:16:10] <malcom2073> I do, but they're for entirely different things
[17:16:53] <Wolf_Mill> so, printing stuff from makerlove then?
[17:17:07] <malcom2073> Lol nice
[17:17:59] <andypugh> I think the Wally design comes closer to a printer that can print itself.
[17:18:27] <MacGalempsy> so I can get the spindle to do a openloop test while running PNCCONF, however, after finishing the process, an error comes up addressing mitsub_vfd.hal, which I did not even select while setting up. any solutions on how to get linuxcnc to stop trying to deal with this?
[17:20:55] <Jymmm> malcom2073: _methods isn't trolling, just straight out bullshitting. At least all you need for _methods crap is waders and a graden hose to rinse them off when he's gone too deep
[17:21:31] <malcom2073> Well yeah, but he's doing it with the intention of getting a reaction for no other reason than his own amusement heh
[17:21:56] <_methods> if i did it in the reprap room that might be true
[17:22:01] <PetefromTn_> what other reason could there possibly be that makes any sense?
[17:22:01] <furrywolf> bbl, hardware store.
[17:22:09] <malcom2073> In the reprap room though, they're much nicer :)
[17:22:20] <_methods> ignorance is bliss
[17:22:28] <_methods> or so they say lol
[17:22:29] <PetefromTn_> is that anything like romper room
[17:22:32] <malcom2073> So is knowlege, it's the middle ground that is miserable
[17:22:33] <Jymmm> malcom2073: have you not seen _methods' photo? http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hHjGtBnSv50/maxresdefault.jpg
[17:22:44] <_methods> hahahha
[17:22:45] <malcom2073> That's creepy
[17:23:02] <PetefromTn_> shit that scared the carp outta me ;)
[17:23:53] <_methods> you have carp in you?
[17:24:03] <malcom2073> MAybe he just ate dinner?
[17:24:09] <_methods> hahah
[17:24:18] <_methods> PetefromTn_is full of carp
[17:25:12] <PetefromTn_> that was on purpose smartasses
[17:25:35] <JT-Shop> can anyone explain how to cypher the formula in 3.1? http://www.igus.com/wpck/3565/DryLin_T_Systemauslegung_waagerecht_1
[17:27:42] <tjtr33> Igus are pretty nice guys, their engrs can solve it for you if you wanna talk with them. ( I dont care for dry-lin myself)
[17:28:10] <JT-Shop> this is a nailing machine so precision is not a factor
[17:28:24] <JT-Shop> or is there another reason you don't like dry lin?
[17:28:59] <JT-Shop> probably easier to email the expert at igus lol
[17:29:37] <cradek> what are you trying to solve for?
[17:30:08] <JT-Shop> just taking a stab at calculating the driving force for a table
[17:30:09] <tjtr33> fill in blanks & get an answer here http://www.igus.com/Apps/DryLinExpert/default.aspx?ms=i
[17:30:18] <tjtr33> HTH
[17:30:45] <tjtr33> NM the above solves for product, you want physics
[17:42:25] <MacGalempsy> can anyone tell me which irc client they run with linuxcnc?
[17:42:52] <MacGalempsy> i mean on their linuxcnc machine
[17:42:59] <JT-Shop> xchat
[17:45:10] <PetefromTn_> woohoo got someone coming to take away all my aluminum swarf!!
[17:47:55] <MacG_VMC> Hey it worked\
[17:48:59] <JT-Shop> no scrap dealers nearby PetefromTn_ ?
[17:49:14] * JT-Shop can't wait for October...
[17:49:38] <MacG_VMC> Whats up in October?
[17:50:01] <MacG_VMC> http://pastebin.com/4tbZUvBf
[17:50:32] <PetefromTn_> dunno man but all I know is I want this shit gone and someone is going to come get it.
[17:50:43] <PetefromTn_> The good news is the guy has been to my shop before.
[17:50:52] <PetefromTn_> his wife is disabled
[17:51:00] <PetefromTn_> and he has his own health issues
[17:51:12] <PetefromTn_> so if it helps them then that is great with me
[17:51:17] <PetefromTn_> I just want it gone LOL
[17:51:22] <Wolf_Mill> alum is what, around 16cents/lb right now?
[17:51:27] <MacG_VMC> So after running PNCCONF, I try to run the linuxcnc file and this error comes up. I cannot figure out where the error is coming from. I see they are in reference to some .HAL files, but cannot find where they are referenced....
[17:51:39] <PetefromTn_> no idea what it is
[17:51:45] <PetefromTn_> don't really care
[17:52:00] <PetefromTn_> I have probably a large bathtub full right now
[17:52:11] <JT-Shop> sounds like a win win for both of you
[17:52:18] <PetefromTn_> yup
[17:52:24] <PetefromTn_> whats in October?
[17:52:34] <andypugh> MacG_VMC: gs2_vfd.hal:12: gs2_vfd exited without becoming ready
[17:52:35] <JT-Shop> wears valley
[17:52:40] <PetefromTn_> and what do you do with your swarf JT?
[17:52:45] <PetefromTn_> Oh cool
[17:52:56] <JT-Shop> scrap yard
[17:52:59] <PetefromTn_> are we gonna get together and have a soda somewhere?
[17:53:12] <JT-Shop> when it is piled up too high I make a scrap run
[17:53:22] <JT-Shop> you bet
[17:53:26] <MacG_VMC> andypugh, I dont know why it is trying to use that file. How do I go about disabling that? PNCCONF must have added that
[17:53:28] <PetefromTn_> do you get anything for it?
[17:53:45] <PetefromTn_> awesome
[17:53:48] <andypugh> MacG_VMC: You don’t have a VFD?
[17:53:54] <MacG_VMC> I do
[17:53:58] <JT-Shop> yea, I usually get a couple hundred bucks
[17:54:03] <PetefromTn_> WOAH
[17:54:14] <MacG_VMC> it is only hooked to ref+ & ref-
[17:54:18] <PetefromTn_> you must make some kinda shitload of chips over there
[17:54:22] <MacG_VMC> well, and the encoder
[17:54:40] <JT-Shop> I usually have lots of structural steel drops and stuff
[17:54:50] <PetefromTn_> oh okay
[17:54:51] <andypugh> OK, so look in the HAL files in the config directory and remove / comment out the “loadusr gs2-vfd” line
[17:55:02] <JT-Shop> alum chips I throw away they only pay 2 cents a pound for them
[17:55:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah I doubt this aluminum swarf is worth more than twenty or thirty bucks
[17:55:54] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Make a swarf compactor accessory for your log splitter?
[17:56:11] <JT-Shop> or my 50 ton press
[17:56:36] <Wolf_Mill> I was off, alum is around $0.40-$0.33
[17:56:39] <JT-Shop> not sure why they don't pay much for alum chips, steel chips are the same price as shorts
[17:56:44] <Wolf_Mill> per pound
[17:57:08] <andypugh> I think aluminium swarf might be hard to re-melt. Lots of dross as it oxidises.
[17:57:27] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ it all adds up
[17:57:29] <PetefromTn_> well this guy does the recycling so it is up to him to get what he can for it
[17:57:45] <Tom_itx> solid is worth more than chips
[17:57:47] <PetefromTn_> I just need it gone and don't really want to screw with it so this works
[17:57:58] <Tom_itx> and aluminum must be clean or it's not worth much
[17:58:04] <Tom_itx> ie no steel etc in it
[17:58:04] <PetefromTn_> if it's solid it gets cut into parts around here LOL
[17:58:12] <Tom_itx> not if it's too small
[17:58:22] <JT-Shop> I was behind a guy in a wheelchair one time and the lady said well (his name) that will be 278. I thought wow how did he haul that much scrap in... then she counted it out 2 dollars and 78 cents. He was a happy guy
[17:58:28] <PetefromTn_> define too small
[17:58:44] <Wolf_Mill> on the chart i'm looking at alum wheels are at the top $$ for alum
[17:58:44] <Tom_itx> corner cutoffs etc
[17:58:50] <Tom_itx> profile cutouts
[17:59:23] <Tom_itx> pockets that you don't need to completely machine away
[17:59:35] * JT-Shop heads inside to start dinner
[17:59:51] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna get a crash course in CATIA tonight
[18:00:22] <Wolf_Mill> crap, wtf was a working on again
[18:02:02] <MacG_VMC> andypugh, thanks. now linuxcnc starts up. thanks for the help, let's see how far I can get tonight.
[18:03:14] <Wolf_Mill> oh yeah, enclose the mill and mount the coolant system
[18:04:07] <Wolf_Mill> ... also need to wire the realys in
[18:07:20] <Sync> Tom_itx: you mean, how to crash her most efficiently?
[18:18:02] <Tom_itx> Sync, do you know where to change the units?
[18:18:06] <Tom_itx> from mm to inch
[18:20:11] <Tom_itx> nm found it
[18:21:40] <Sync> why do you want it in wrongunits?
[18:24:47] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/5221646109.html Seriously?
[18:25:01] <PetefromTn_> Is there any world where a hopped up scooter is worth that much?
[18:29:30] <PetefromTn_> LOL just looked up the list price for a new one..... wait for it.....$2649.00US!!!! you gotta be kidding me....
[18:30:28] <malcom2073> Well hello there Sync
[18:31:05] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[18:34:16] <Sync> haha PetefromTn_
[18:54:47] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[19:00:07] <tjtr33> are those really single sided swing arm?
[19:01:47] <PetefromTn_> apparently
[19:03:04] <malcom2073> Hmm, anyone built up one of these UHU servo driver boards? Wondering if anyone has done a US parts list (Mouser/digikey?) to compliment their DE parts list.
[19:29:34] <enleth> Bridgeport status: almost all done - automatic zeroing, limit switches, jogging, engaging handwheels, all DRO modes and Z downfeed adjustment work.
[19:29:39] <malcom2073> Nice
[19:29:58] <enleth> Left: tram the head, reinstall head side panels and spindle controls.
[19:30:18] <enleth> Oh, and pneumatics for VariSpeed.
[19:31:11] <enleth> But those may have to wait, so a temporary adjustment handwheel is in order, like on a classic manual 2J2 head.
[19:32:56] <enleth> The worst part: my lathe died today and I have yet to turn down the flanges on those chinese ISO30 toolholders
[19:33:13] <enleth> They don't fit the Erickson QuickChange spindle out of the box
[19:33:29] <malcom2073> Doh, what happened?
[19:33:32] <PetefromTn_> Sweet guy just came and took away a huge pile of aluminum swarf.. He was thankful and said whenever I have more just give him a call... SWEET!!
[19:34:25] <enleth> malcom2073: stripped thread on the feedscrew nut
[19:35:34] <enleth> Which is the only way to move the saddle on C0 - it's a full nut, not a split nut, and there's no rack and pinion for jogging
[19:36:08] <enleth> So, I have to make a new one, preferably on the new mill - oh wait, the toolholders need to be turned down first
[19:37:09] <enleth> But I have this Proxxon BFW 40/E lying around, it should do
[19:37:34] <enleth> I made aluminum toolposts for the C0 on it, so milling a brass nut shouldn't be a problem.
[19:38:35] <Wolf_Mill> mocked up for the new mill table... I really think my bench is too small now lol
[19:38:42] <malcom2073> Damn
[19:39:46] * ganzuul hax0rs
[19:39:47] <ganzuul> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0uGC7rikxFuVExSdmM3Wl9PWFotQUF2akF6eVU0U1VSajhz/view?usp=sharing
[19:40:13] <Wolf_Mill> going from a 240mm to 400mm table doesnt sound like too much...
[19:41:25] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/WUrLcnK.jpg square is where the edge of the table would b at full travel, the bolt is where the end of the stepper would be
[19:42:22] <ganzuul> The setup: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0uGC7rikxFuUkxGejRmNzF3aVdGLTRZNENfVmxtbFprWm5N/view?usp=sharing
[19:42:58] <ganzuul> It's really amazing how one's hand-eye coordination can multiply linearly with the magnification of one's optics.
[19:43:13] <t12> isd that your own table on that
[19:44:30] <t12> poor sentence formation
[19:44:56] <Wolf_Mill> engrish?
[19:45:04] <t12> word salad
[19:45:39] <Wolf_Mill> 240mm table on the X1 right now, extended 400mm eta of thursday
[19:59:47] <fenn> Wolf_Mill: how much are you going to upgrade that thing before switching to a real mill?
[20:00:05] <Wolf_Mill> all the way!
[20:00:12] <fenn> you're swimming in milling machines out there
[20:00:37] <fenn> probably spent more than the cost of the wells index by now
[20:00:58] <Wolf_Mill> doubt that
[20:01:08] <malcom2073> Lol
[20:01:16] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: We really are swimming in them here on the east coast
[20:01:50] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, but new machine means new tooling needed, place to set it up, ect ect
[20:02:04] <malcom2073> If you get a *Real* good deal it'll come with tooling like mine did
[20:02:43] <furrywolf> bleh. now it's not just dreary, it's raining.
[20:04:11] <Wolf_Mill> I do want a full sized mill, but plasma table needs to get done first
[20:04:47] <ganzuul> Heat made it come loose. :(
[20:08:58] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:09:00] <malcom2073> 4x8 plasma?
[20:09:11] <Wolf_Mill> 12x5
[20:11:49] <Wolf_Mill> needs to be fork loadable, and will probably do floodable setup
[20:12:44] <SpeedEvil> Big table is big.
[20:14:09] <Wolf_Mill> sound big till you're putting a 4x10' sheet on it
[20:14:28] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:14:42] <SpeedEvil> how thick you planning on cutting?
[20:15:06] <Wolf_Mill> up to 1/2" peirce
[20:16:34] <malcom2073> heh
[20:16:47] <malcom2073> I still have hopes for a 5x10 cnc router
[20:17:37] <Wolf_Mill> the worst part on my plasma table is the $$$ for the machine torch
[20:18:04] <furrywolf> regular torch + hose clamps. :P
[20:18:08] <malcom2073> +1 for that
[20:19:08] <Wolf_Mill> yeah...
[20:19:10] <fenn> what's the difference? duty cycle?
[20:21:30] <Wolf_Mill> http://www.hypertherm.com/en-us/Products/Automated_cutting/Mechanized_plasma/Technology_upgrades/duramax_torch_upgrade1000.jsp#1
[20:21:36] <Wolf_Mill> nice short link...
[20:23:59] <fenn> the built in gear rack seems kinda silly
[20:24:24] <furrywolf> I've been thinking of building an extra-low-cost (and, presumably, quality) plasma table... just some angle iron, gate wheels, and aircraft cable on pulleys to move it.
[20:24:49] <fenn> furrywolf have you seen the reprap wally
[20:25:33] <fenn> it's a parallel kinematic polar robot driven by wire rope pulleys
[20:25:52] <fenn> so the only precision elements are 608 skateboard bearings
[20:25:57] <furrywolf> no. I generally ignore everything reprap.
[20:26:17] <furrywolf> also, unless you use fancy pulleys with spiral grooves, expect accuracy to be crap. :)
[20:26:30] <fenn> http://reprap.org/wiki/Wally
[20:26:52] <Wolf_Mill> so, why is the gear rack on the machine torch silly?
[20:27:19] <fenn> Wolf_Mill: it slides on the ceramic? why not just use real bearings?
[20:27:37] <Wolf_Mill> thats not ceramic
[20:27:38] <furrywolf> yeah, see, more reprap low-precision plastic garbage.
[20:27:53] <fenn> furrywolf: just the concept, you don't have to make it out of plastic
[20:27:53] <furrywolf> unless you count wire insulation, there will be NO PLASTIC on anything I build.
[20:28:16] <malcom2073> Cable chains?
[20:28:24] <t12> only fiberglass insulation
[20:28:26] <t12> you can do it
[20:28:37] <t12> only metal bearing seals
[20:28:43] <fenn> 1930's technology
[20:28:59] <fenn> use cotton wire insulation
[20:29:19] <Wolf_Mill> oh thats not too bad, only $750 for the torch head
[20:29:21] <furrywolf> you can just see looking at theirs that, like most/all other reprap stuff, the accuracy and reliability will both be shit.
[20:29:34] <furrywolf> ... not too bad?!
[20:29:44] <fenn> no i can't see that just looking at it..
[20:29:46] <furrywolf> I hope to build mine for under $200, including the plasma cutter.
[20:30:09] <Wolf_Mill> guessing you arent picking a plasma cutter that can do 1 3/4"
[20:30:23] <furrywolf> no. mine does 1/2" cleanly 5/8" severance or something like that.
[20:30:29] <fenn> i would link to the video that shows it off in more detail, but...
[20:30:52] <fenn> why would anyone want to see a video of a machine in operation!!!
[20:31:13] <furrywolf> http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/4/48/Wally.jpg
[20:31:21] <furrywolf> videos are bad for seeing construction details
[20:31:52] <Wolf_Mill> well... its odd looking
[20:32:18] <Wolf_Mill> totally non-relevent to a 5'x12' plasma table also
[20:32:34] <furrywolf> totally non-relevant to everything, I suspect. :)
[20:32:36] <fenn> think bigger
[20:33:04] <furrywolf> bigger... so it can be even worse?
[20:33:21] <fenn> what are your actual objections, besides it's made of plastic?
[20:33:21] <furrywolf> if it were bigger, the stresses on the pivots for the arms would be very high.
[20:33:29] <Wolf_Mill> thats a lot of hanging load for a fast moving plasma system
[20:33:41] <furrywolf> not useful?
[20:33:50] <furrywolf> not scalable?
[20:33:58] <furrywolf> not accurate?
[20:34:06] <fenn> you're just making stuff up now
[20:34:31] <Wolf_Mill> not pratical to scale up imo
[20:34:38] <Praesmeodymium> well the focus of actual reprap isnt a good printer oddly, but a print that could print itself. the Selective compliance bots have good root, but a reprap interpertaion of almost anything does barely get beyonnd proof of concept I agree
[20:34:51] <t12> it failed at that do
[20:34:56] <t12> go for it print those motor windings
[20:35:06] <furrywolf> lol
[20:35:18] <Wolf_Mill> hehe
[20:35:18] <fenn> so Wolf_Mill brings up a good point that the further out the arm extends, the more leverage it gets on the pivots and the more it droops. but you already have to do torch height compensation so it's not actually any added cost
[20:35:46] <furrywolf> fenn: I brought that up too. you just like the other wolf more, don't you? :P
[20:36:02] <fenn> you only said "ew plastic" and some made up stuff
[20:36:23] <t12> i only use cutting tools chipped out of obsidian
[20:36:41] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> if it were bigger, the stresses on the pivots for the arms would be very high.
[20:36:44] <Wolf_Mill> other issue is it wouldnt fit in my shop bay, 5' out, with 12' of table, arms are going to out swing how far?
[20:36:48] <t12> curiously, obsidian scalpels are a thing
[20:37:11] <fenn> at least it packs away when not in use, unlike a table
[20:37:15] <Praesmeodymium> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwqFYdUnSI4 a scara bot similar idea just not shitty
[20:37:15] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:37:15] <furrywolf> gantries are much sturdier than giant pivoting arms with huge bearings.
[20:37:26] <furrywolf> no, it still needs a table.
[20:37:41] <fenn> i agree, gantries are sturdier, but plasma cutting is a zero force process
[20:37:47] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, if I'm going to drop a 10'x4' 1/2
[20:37:56] <t12> gravity counts
[20:38:00] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, if I'm going to drop a 10'x4' 1/2" plate on it.. gonna need a table
[20:38:09] <furrywolf> the angles are bad, especially with long arms. a slight angular error results in a huge position error.
[20:38:48] <furrywolf> real robots do this with fancy encoders at the joints, not twisting string around smooth pulleys and praying.
[20:39:05] <fenn> oh i would put encoders on it if i were building a large one
[20:39:57] <fenn> hardened cable running on smooth steel pulleys is very efficient though, so i'd probably keep that aspect
[20:41:02] <furrywolf> I plan to make grooves in my pulleys, so they maintain the exact spacing repeatably.
[20:42:30] <furrywolf> I haven't yet decided how to remove the inaccuracy that would result if the pulleys were fixed. I could just let them slide on the shafts, or I could make a screw with the same pitch as the grooves in the pulleys to precisely move them.
[20:43:26] <Wolf_Mill> threaded pulleys, just offset the cables at each end of the table
[20:44:49] <Wolf_Mill> cable offset in/out of teh pulley should be consistant
[20:45:08] <furrywolf> as you wind the cable, its position will shift along the pulley. you have to let the pulley slide or it'll pull the cables off to one side.
[20:45:19] <Praesmeodymium> very few reprapper could handle building a real robot, half of them cant plug the hardware together without blowing it up, and reading the manual is a no no
[20:45:28] <malcom2073> Alright I got emails out to the servo guys, hopefully I can get an answer and maybe actually still go the servo route
[20:45:29] <furrywolf> lol
[20:46:21] <Wolf_Mill> furrywolf: are you talking about the pulley being at a fixed end of the table or traveling with the gantry
[20:47:11] <furrywolf> either one. I plan on fixed, but having it move won't solve the problem. :)
[20:48:41] <fenn> i've seen chainsaw capstans for pulling deer out of ravines etc, they seem to work fine without loosening to let the cable adjust its axial position on the pulley
[20:49:10] <fenn> you can't let it loosen because the deer is a hanging load
[20:49:43] <furrywolf> yes, but that doesn't work if you're going for accurate positioning. :P
[20:51:24] <fenn> heh i kept thinking "it can't be 'barrett arm' that's the guy in final fantasy 7"
[20:51:32] <furrywolf> for accurate positioning, you fasten the cable to the pulley in the middle, then let it wind parallel on either side of it
[20:51:36] <fenn> http://www.barrett.com/products-arm-components.htm this has the same pulley system
[20:51:45] <fenn> yep
[20:51:57] <fenn> there's a video which shows it nicely...
[20:53:06] <fenn> "WAM arm cable drives" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEzIpxbp-xI
[20:53:07] <furrywolf> brb
[21:37:42] <tjtr33> fenn, I'm surprised Fraunhofer didnt use Linuxcnc,they used to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCa8uDFzbsw
[21:37:51] <tjtr33> ^^^ cable robot
[21:54:13] <PetefromTn_> evenin' folks
[22:17:11] <fenn> yes i think a cable hexapod or similar would also be a good match for plasma and waterjet, because you only need around 50 degrees of B and C axis
[22:17:26] <fenn> er, A and B
[22:18:57] <MattyMatt> you'd be depending on gravity if you want all the cables going above the bed
[22:19:16] <fenn> fraunhofer set up their platform wrong though, you want a floating compression beam so you can put all of the cables and crap on a plane above the work table and not have to worry about cables running into things
[22:19:51] <fenn> like this http://fennetic.net/machines/hexegrity
[22:19:54] <MattyMatt> deltas are just as fast
[22:20:04] <MattyMatt> and neater
[22:20:07] <fenn> deltas are 3 axis
[22:20:14] <PetefromTn_> cable hexapod for waterjet?
[22:21:19] <MattyMatt> when you need 2 leadscrews in the winch, for cable tidy, then you've not even got the simplicity advantage
[22:22:54] <MattyMatt> I've seen a delta with 6 dof, but it was strictly a stewart platform, except the arms were parallel pairs
[22:23:17] <MattyMatt> someone here did that I think, it runs linuxcnc anyway
[22:23:47] <fenn> 1 asdfasdfasdf
[22:24:30] <fenn> terminal froze
[22:24:31] <Wolf_> ideas are neat, but I still think somewhat impractical for a 12 foot x 5 foot working area table
[22:24:40] <fenn> heh 300000 mm/min rapids
[22:25:20] <fenn> it gets more practical the bigger you go, because you're just adding length to cables
[22:25:31] <Wolf_> a delta is gonna need to be how tall?
[22:25:49] <fenn> dunno, i'm not really a fan of deltas
[22:26:08] <fenn> on the order of your maximum table dimension though
[22:27:15] <Wolf_> really not sure how to implement that hexapod thing either
[22:28:28] <fenn> a prismatic delta is twice as tall as a rotary delta for the same work area, but a lot stiffer
[22:28:52] <fenn> a stewart platform is even bigger than that, but another couple orders of magnitude stiffer
[22:29:13] <MattyMatt> they don't have to be vertical, although I imagine they get arthritis if they aren't
[22:29:34] <MattyMatt> strained ball joints
[22:30:56] <Wolf_> I think I’ll stick with a simple x/y gantry with torch and separate drill Z
[22:31:34] <MattyMatt> that's probably best for a big flatbed
[22:32:07] <MattyMatt> unless you want to hear my quadcopter spindle idea
[22:32:29] <fenn> what's the precision of a plasma cut anyway? like .01 inches?
[22:33:04] <fenn> or is it one of those "it depends" things
[22:33:15] <MattyMatt> if it's consistent, you could allow for it, so yeah it depends
[22:35:44] <MattyMatt> you'd have to be brave to give a waterjet more than 3 axis. what's the killing range of those?
[22:36:13] <fenn> no, most waterjet have a small amount of rotation because the kerf is tapered
[22:36:25] <fenn> and people don't usually want tapered parts
[22:37:06] <MattyMatt> ah right. I thought waterjet gave a straighter cut than laser or plasma
[22:37:09] <Wolf_> yeah, 3 axis for kerf compensation for deep cuts
[22:37:33] <MattyMatt> just a few degrees tho?
[22:37:58] <Wolf_> cut dynamics are close to the same as a plasma
[22:38:15] <fenn> is plasma a tapered kerf too?
[22:38:32] <Wolf_> oxidizing and eroding
[22:38:46] <PetefromTn_> waterjets taper thick materials pretty badly in my experience
[22:39:01] <PetefromTn_> laser cutters are pretty damn square cutting
[22:40:02] <PetefromTn_> in two of the shops I worked in it is quite common to have plate stock cutout on the waterjet and then we did the finish machining on them
[22:40:27] <Wolf_> how old of a waterjet?
[22:40:47] <MattyMatt> I was just thinking of a machine that does it for you on the same bed, but you need a tool fine enough to fit in the cut
[22:40:56] <Wolf_> also material type plays a part in the kerf
[22:41:14] <PetefromTn_> lots of things affect the curf in a waterjet
[22:41:29] <PetefromTn_> kerf
[22:41:44] <fenn> waterjet makes such a smooth kerf already you'd better have a good reason to re-machine it
[22:41:52] <Wolf_> I have seen low kerf cut of 6-7” material in a water jet
[22:42:24] <PetefromTn_> well we must have had two piece of junk waterjets then I guess
[22:42:28] <Wolf_> but that was on a $80k o-max being demoed, so factory fresh machine
[22:42:41] <PetefromTn_> because the thicker the material the worse the cut
[22:42:42] <Wolf_> and it was only a 4x4’
[22:42:48] <PetefromTn_> and they were anything but smooth really
[22:43:18] <fenn> the finish and accuracy is better the slower you go
[22:43:31] <PetefromTn_> you had to remachine it because generally speaking the cuts were less than precise. This was a VERY LARGE machine
[22:44:01] <PetefromTn_> they cut loads of materials on it daily and it got a real workout. It was often down due to nozzle issues and other problems
[22:44:21] <Wolf_> used granite countertop machine used for metal? :P
[22:44:39] <MattyMatt> I guess the waterjet cut is easier to machine than a plasma one, no crust
[22:44:49] <PetefromTn_> no heat problems
[22:45:42] <PetefromTn_> I guess if you went really slowly you would get better results but they were always trying to make things as quickly as possible over there.
[22:45:45] <Wolf_> thats one of the really cool things about water jet
[22:46:14] <MattyMatt> big blue saw. good name I feel, for way you'd use it
[22:46:16] <Wolf_> other is the fact that if you can shove it on the table, you can probably cut it
[22:47:10] * MattyMatt wonders how long it takes to dry plywood
[22:47:17] <PetefromTn_> plusses are you can cut almost anything with them, there is no heat issues like a plasma or laser cutter gives you, the resultant cut is at least smooth
[22:48:07] <MattyMatt> can you choose your grit for speed/finish options?
[22:48:49] <Wolf_> I can’t remember, its been 5-6 years since I was looking at them
[22:48:57] <PetefromTn_> negatives are tapering of cut walls, generally low accuracy compared to machined parts, they are REALLY messy machines that generate large amounts of sludge that must be disposed of.
[22:49:42] <fenn> you can't recycle the grit a couple times at least?
[22:49:43] <PetefromTn_> lots of problems with nozzles and the garnet basically gets everywhere even if you are careful and clean the machine regularly
[22:50:07] <Wolf_> not cheap on wear parts
[22:50:23] <PetefromTn_> I don't know but I don't think you can because it will have metal and other contaminants in it
[22:51:13] <PetefromTn_> to be honest after working with one for awhile I am not a big fan of waterjets. They have their place but I would not want to run one day in and day out.
[22:51:31] <Wolf_> oh yeah, loud as fuck too
[22:51:42] <PetefromTn_> better to farm out the waterjet cut parts to other shops and let them worry about it LOL
[22:51:54] <fenn> http://www.wardjet.com/wardpro.html looks like recycling makes the grit size go down by 20%
[22:53:49] <MattyMatt> combine the 2. jet of liquid argon+grit with frikken plasma + laser
[22:54:10] <Wolf_> would clog the cut
[22:54:10] <fenn> tungsten jet
[22:54:33] <MattyMatt> copper jet is doable today, if you have an explosives licence
[22:54:40] <fenn> heh i was thinking the same thing
[22:54:45] <Wolf_> hmm, really wouldnt work at all with argon
[22:55:26] <fenn> heavy ion beam
[22:55:39] <fenn> nanoparticle beam
[22:55:59] <MattyMatt> ultrasonic fatiguer with uri geller's thumb
[22:56:01] <fenn> atom lasers are over-hyped
[22:56:17] <Wolf_> nanoparticle chainsaw
[22:56:41] <fenn> that's probably doable with superconducting magnets for the "chain sprocket"
[22:57:37] <fenn> hard to make a thin enough magnet to be useful
[22:57:54] <MattyMatt> won't particle beams end up adding material? more useful for welding than cutting afaics
[22:58:07] <roycroft> use antiparticle beams
[22:58:12] <roycroft> that will subtract material
[22:58:15] <MattyMatt> now we're cooking :)
[22:58:58] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
[22:59:08] <MattyMatt> what's the cutting radius of a single A-M explosion?
[22:59:11] <Wolf_> fussing at that level, might as well just have nano machines restock everything in to the new object
[22:59:20] <MattyMatt> gn8 pete
[22:59:27] <Wolf_> restock/ re-stack
[22:59:44] <fenn> ion etching sends workpiece secondary ions flying everywhere
[23:00:10] <fenn> 99.999% of the time they are adsorbed to the vacuum container walls
[23:00:31] <fenn> sometimes one finds its way into a spectrometer so you know what you're cutting
[23:01:15] <fenn> mumble mumble x-ray fluorescence
[23:01:18] <furrywolf> yay! my 76W LED light is nice and bright.
[23:01:54] <fenn> can you afford 76 whole watts of power usage
[23:02:06] <furrywolf> depends on the weather.
[23:02:26] <furrywolf> FN port 3, A -14.3A (enabled), B 0.0A (disabled), C 0.0A (disabled), batt 23.7V, btemp 99.0C, SOC 54.0%, flags 0x08, extra id 4, data 0.00.
[23:02:33] <furrywolf> today... not so great weather.
[23:02:45] <roycroft> blah
[23:02:57] <roycroft> i need a single push button reset 10a panel mount circuit breaker
[23:02:58] <fenn> so you used 14 amp hours today?
[23:03:21] <roycroft> the only place i found them in stock was digi-key, with a 500 piece minimum
[23:03:33] <roycroft> i had to pay an extortion price on ebay
[23:03:40] <fenn> oh it's using 14 amps right now
[23:03:46] <furrywolf> no, I'm currently drawing 14.3A.
[23:03:55] <furrywolf> mostly going to...
[23:04:00] <furrywolf> FX port 1, inv 2.0A, chg 0.0A, buy 0.0A, sell 0.0A, load 2.0A, in 0.0V, out 123.0V, batt 23.8V, mode 2, ac 0, error 0x00, warning 0x00, misc 0x08.
[23:04:26] <fenn> what's with the hex flags?
[23:04:58] <furrywolf> there's also around 1A going to the dc-dc converter for the 12V system, which among other things floats the small 12V bank and runs the weather station and the computer that logs it.
[23:05:07] <MattyMatt> no XRF guns on aliexpress atm, just "gold detector" ones. last price I saw started at £2k
[23:05:28] <furrywolf> the hex flags are bits for specific conditions
[23:05:57] <furrywolf> since error and warning have no bits set, there's no errors or warnings.
[23:07:27] <fenn> are your batteries really boiling hot?
[23:07:47] <furrywolf> misc 0x08 is "reserved", so I have no idea what that bit tells you. :P
[23:07:57] <furrywolf> 99C is error.
[23:08:14] <furrywolf> in this case, the error being due to my not having a temperature sensor connected.
[23:09:06] <furrywolf> mode 2 is inverter on. :)
[23:09:28] <fenn> very intuitive interface
[23:09:50] <furrywolf> that's just the debug dump from my logger program... I never got around to writing the actual frontend to it.
[23:09:53] <MattyMatt> 0x08 = LED3 illuminated >:)
[23:10:04] <furrywolf> those values are the raw data from the hardware
[23:10:33] <fenn> is this something you built or just an interface to a commercial product?
[23:10:47] <furrywolf> the interface is a commercial product, the software I wrote.
[23:12:53] <MattyMatt> I desire a battery managagment computer on my bike how it has big batteries
[23:13:02] <MattyMatt> ^now it has
[23:13:24] <furrywolf> this is part of the Outback inverter system... a bit overkill for a bike. :)
[23:14:32] <MattyMatt> maybe. I could be in the outback on my bike
[23:15:12] <MattyMatt> meh, more bike = more stuff to nick
[23:15:47] <MattyMatt> lead acid and a liverpool proof lock & chain = dead weight
[23:16:14] <furrywolf> http://www.ecodieselcanada.com/indexed/97.jpg if you want to fit one of those on your bike, you're more than welcome to. plan on biiiig batteries. :)
[23:16:52] <MattyMatt> I won't be able to reach the bell with those on the handlebatrs :)
[23:17:06] <MattyMatt> I'm thinking more of a waterproof arduino
[23:17:33] <furrywolf> it'll also crush your bike flat if you're not careful. :P
[23:18:18] <MattyMatt> 2 computers each with gps and gprs, so they can report when and where the thief disconnects the other
[23:18:34] <furrywolf> heh
[23:18:47] <furrywolf> and an explosive device hidden in the top tube, to ensure the thief can't breed?
[23:19:04] <MattyMatt> bikes do that anyway I hear
[23:19:21] <MattyMatt> them saddles
[23:19:22] <fenn> make sure you put super ironic "this bike is a pipe bomb" stickers on it
[23:20:04] <MattyMatt> toe clips full of epoxy
[23:22:02] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:22:29] <MattyMatt> if a bike juggled its 2 lead acid batteries, it could probably stay upright segway style
[23:23:12] <furrywolf> if you can juggle while on a bike, go join the circus. :)
[23:23:44] <MattyMatt> bike can join the circus, if it can do high wire acts
[23:26:03] <furrywolf> 6400lm... maybe I'll build a bigger one next. 9600lm would be the next step up.
[23:26:06] <furrywolf> but now, sleep. bbl.