#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-11

Back
[00:00:01] <Jymmm> 500 watts of fun =)
[02:02:17] <Deejay> moin
[02:10:55] <ganzuul> http://i.imgur.com/xaWGSKP.gif
[02:10:57] <ganzuul> o/
[02:41:00] <Deejay> cool
[05:22:15] <XXCoder> ganzuul: yeah
[05:22:27] <ganzuul> :o
[05:22:35] <XXCoder> I hope that kind of knowleage is kept since more and more is programmed
[05:24:20] <XXCoder> anyway whats up man
[05:39:31] <ganzuul> Waiting for my lathe! And looking up plan files for accessories.
[05:39:39] <XXCoder> nice
[05:39:49] <XXCoder> need to finish my router
[05:40:04] <XXCoder> it has configuration issues and my pc is lacking many stuff like montior
[05:40:47] <ganzuul> Null cable modem?
[05:41:08] <XXCoder> lol
[05:41:12] <ganzuul> srs
[05:41:15] <ganzuul> It works.
[05:41:28] <XXCoder> no, it works fine
[05:41:42] <XXCoder> just bad configuration like X, Y, Z
[05:41:46] <XXCoder> so it dont make stuff to proper scale
[05:42:05] <ganzuul> oic, thought you meant network router. >.>
[05:42:46] <XXCoder> lol
[05:42:54] <XXCoder> annoying how router is used few times
[05:43:10] <Wolf_> I fought with that for a few hours on mine, changing the steps on the drivers didn’t take w/out power cycle
[05:44:34] <XXCoder> its so ahrd for me to even start
[05:44:38] <XXCoder> dunno whyu
[05:47:04] <ganzuul> I need to start collecting scrap metal...
[05:48:12] <ganzuul> A barbell weight plate might do for a faceplate. hmmm
[05:54:11] <Wolf_> faceplates are too cheap to diy imo
[05:54:35] <XXCoder> faceplates?
[05:54:38] <XXCoder> not facemills?
[05:55:16] <Wolf_> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1199&category=1
[05:55:44] <Wolf_> I have one, never have used it
[05:55:50] <XXCoder> ahh
[05:56:01] <XXCoder> lathe is too... scary for me lol
[05:56:32] <Wolf_> about to order the extended x/y kit from my mini mill and new gears for the lathe :)
[05:57:10] <XXCoder> nice
[05:57:17] <enleth> XXCoder: get a Sieg Industries C0 lathe, it's nice, small and safe
[05:57:36] <XXCoder> Wolf_: I ran lathe only 3 days total so far, and damn scary. because HUGE tool head runs in to part at 500 mph
[05:57:38] <Wolf_> C0 is tiny isn’t it?
[05:57:46] <XXCoder> and stops 0.0001 mm from part
[05:58:00] <XXCoder> (not really but sure looks like it!)
[05:58:19] <Wolf_> yeah, cnc lathe has to be something to see running
[05:58:33] <enleth> Wolf_: it is. You can actually overload it by grabbing the spinning chuck bare-handed
[05:58:46] <Wolf_> I have a C2
[05:58:53] <XXCoder> it may be nice for small wood projects
[05:58:57] <Wolf_> and a taig lathe
[05:59:06] <Wolf_> can’t overload either by hand lol
[05:59:25] <Wolf_> but I did put a 1/2 hp motor on the taig lol
[06:00:17] <enleth> C0 is perfect as a training machine, and chugs through steel just fine, only for smsll
[06:00:26] <enleth> *small parts
[06:00:29] <ganzuul> C3 is 500W BLDC. I'm not gonna try overloading it...
[06:00:44] <ganzuul> ~SC3
[06:01:02] <XXCoder> enleth: really? is it cnc-able?
[06:01:29] <enleth> I did some precision work in stainless steel on it, it's manageable
[06:02:21] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/WFAo5Ye.jpg taig micro lathe in front (4jaw live center rest and a spare headstock on the sliding part for storage), c2 on the bench and a X1 micro mill
[06:02:27] <XXCoder> aliexpress its so cheap
[06:02:45] <Wolf_> that 1”x2” extrude that the taig is on
[06:04:08] <enleth> XXCoder: it would be hard to mount steppers without some adapter plate trickery
[06:04:37] <XXCoder> guess so yeah
[06:04:45] <XXCoder> could be half cnc - only one axis
[06:04:50] <Wolf_> a taig wouldnt be too hard to cnc I think
[06:05:00] <XXCoder> though I would like to have two axis in least
[06:05:35] <XXCoder> though lathe is very low priority at this time, I want to get going well on cnc router first
[06:05:38] <Wolf_> C2 and C3 seem to be better size tho
[06:07:16] <XXCoder> "swing" I guess thats diameter limit
[06:07:29] <ganzuul> yup
[06:07:30] <Wolf_> yeah
[06:07:47] <XXCoder> c2 has hole though thats 20 mm
[06:07:49] <XXCoder> not too bad
[06:08:00] <Wolf_> this is why my taig lathe looks so odd http://customcuelathes.com/cue-lathes
[06:08:14] <Wolf_> I was building it to be a cue lathe
[06:09:52] <ganzuul> Cue? For cue sticks?
[06:09:58] <Wolf_> yup
[06:09:59] <malcom2073> Wolf_: You should use a table saw blade, not a router
[06:10:17] <Wolf_> ?
[06:10:35] <enleth> Wolf_: yeah, C2 and C3 are OK wor most light-ish work, although the spindle bore could be bigger
[06:10:40] <malcom2073> Router bits don't have the tooth speed to make really good cues, all the big cue guys use table saws, with the lathe on top of it
[06:10:42] <enleth> *for
[06:11:05] <XXCoder> wonder how easy it is to hack together a lathe lol
[06:11:10] <Wolf_> oh, yeah, I know a few cue builders, I was setting up for tip wprl
[06:11:15] <Wolf_> work*
[06:11:27] <XXCoder> once saw guide on how to make lathe using drill
[06:11:34] <malcom2073> Ah cool
[06:11:39] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Not hard depending on your requirements :P
[06:12:02] <XXCoder> yah
[06:12:13] <XXCoder> saw one guy with BIG lathe
[06:12:28] <XXCoder> he was turning big stump into speaker tube thing
[06:12:35] <Wolf_> http://www.slycustomcues.com/
[06:12:37] <XXCoder> awesome looking result.
[06:12:39] <XXCoder> dangerous.
[06:13:06] <malcom2073> heh
[06:13:20] <malcom2073> Wolf_: There is some *serious* mad money in that stuff
[06:13:53] <XXCoder> looks like just need diameter, but very long lathe
[06:13:54] <Wolf_> yeah, there is, he use to come up to baltimore to shoot pool at my buddy’s hall when it was open
[06:13:57] <XXCoder> *small
[06:14:26] <malcom2073> My dad was working on a cute lathe attachment for a table saw for a guy, he said he sells them for $2-3k each
[06:14:31] <malcom2073> cue*
[06:14:36] <ganzuul> Pretty
[06:14:37] <Wolf_> http://www.slycustomcues.com/shop-tour/
[06:14:39] <XXCoder> cute cue lol
[06:14:44] <Wolf_> look at the top pic lol
[06:15:03] <malcom2073> Yeah heh
[06:15:16] <XXCoder> guess thats right size for section type cue
[06:15:35] <XXCoder> I still have couple that is not that type
[06:15:38] <XXCoder> full size
[06:16:41] <Wolf_> I have about $3k in cues
[06:17:05] <Wolf_> and a 9’ table thats going in my house if I ever get the house done
[06:17:30] <XXCoder> I miss playing pool table
[06:17:41] <XXCoder> school I went to have (or used to) one
[06:17:54] <XXCoder> I used to play with it pretty darn often
[06:19:38] <XXCoder> (before you ask, I know most schools dont have em lol
[06:31:51] <Wolf_> hmm, that looks like a C2 set http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-17pcs-set-mini-lathe-gears-Metal-Cutting-Machine-gears-lathe-gears-Metal-transmission-gears/32358802795.html
[06:33:41] <XXCoder> interesting
[06:33:54] <XXCoder> heard you can make anything from lathe
[06:33:58] <XXCoder> including another lathe
[06:36:43] <ganzuul> \o/
[06:36:49] <ganzuul> Did I say that?
[06:36:53] <ganzuul> If so, I lie.
[06:37:02] <Wolf_> heh, pretty much
[06:37:07] <ganzuul> But I've heard the same.
[06:37:20] <XXCoder> I wish someone would try and video it
[06:37:35] <XXCoder> "well its done and guess which one of those machines is one I just made"
[06:38:57] <Wolf_> making ways on a lathe might be a bit hard :D
[06:39:31] <XXCoder> yah wondered about that.
[06:39:35] <ganzuul> Might be able to use a lathe with power feed as a shaper.
[06:40:14] <Wolf_> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3446&category=1070498684 or gamble and get http://www.aliexpress.com/item/17pcs-set-mini-lathe-gears-Metal-Cutting-Machine-gears-lathe-gears/32333476062.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.8Cj14c&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_6,201409_4 w/ dhl shipping
[06:40:31] <ganzuul> Could maybe use railway tracks as ways?
[06:43:22] <XXCoder> I bet yeah
[06:43:28] <XXCoder> probably need some mill work first
[06:45:00] <ganzuul> Not sure how to make them perfectly straight though.
[06:45:13] <ganzuul> I know you can heat shrink steel
[06:45:58] <Wolf_> surface grinder or using granite plate + scraping
[06:46:14] <ganzuul> But how to actually measure and make something straight when you don't have a bigger reference I haven't figured out.
[06:46:31] <Wolf_> get a bigger reference
[06:46:52] <XXCoder> ganzuul: thats same problem i wondered about. how do you have precision stuff without precision stuff?
[06:48:01] <ganzuul> A wire with a plumb bob is pretty straight...
[06:48:11] <ganzuul> Well, string
[06:50:21] <ganzuul> So if you could somehow see how much light is passing between the string and the part, you'd have a good measurement.
[06:50:39] <XXCoder> my guess is stepping up
[06:50:50] <XXCoder> make pretty precise thing then build better one off it
[06:53:20] <Wolf_> anyone need any 8mm t-nuts for milling tables? about to order 100 of them lol
[06:53:25] <ganzuul> You know about pattern router bits, right? With ball bearings.
[06:54:43] <ganzuul> Stacking up laminates all produced by the same cutter, maybe...
[06:55:39] <ganzuul> Then you could copy a line into a plane
[06:56:49] <ganzuul> Wolf_: Where you at?
[06:56:59] <Wolf_> usa east coast
[06:57:02] <ganzuul> oic
[06:57:09] <ganzuul> Finland, here
[06:57:47] <XXCoder> not sure if 8 mm t nuts would fit mine
[06:57:53] <Wolf_> can’t find any 8mm (M6) t-nuts for my mill for non-stupid prices
[07:00:40] <jthornton> make them
[07:01:06] <XXCoder> just like just_pink are doing
[07:02:22] <Wolf_> falls in to a time vs cost thing for me
[07:02:47] <Wolf_> and milling steel on my machine isn’t trivial
[07:05:37] <ganzuul> the principle behind gun drilling could maybe be copied for use with ways.
[07:06:23] <ganzuul> Or melthing in a vacuum furnace... Mercury gets pretty dran flat.
[07:06:27] <ganzuul> ~darn
[07:07:27] <ganzuul> Aside from that curvature of the earth thing
[07:15:10] <XXCoder> which dont matter up to certain size
[07:15:18] <XXCoder> that size is much larger than your house.
[07:15:41] <XXCoder> someone with special permission made mecury telescope. very effective.
[07:15:53] <XXCoder> couldnt point in any direction besides up though
[07:16:31] <chris_99> you can you focus mercury telescopes too with electricity too iirc
[07:16:49] <XXCoder> dunno about that but guy who did it just spun the disc
[07:17:10] <XXCoder> its basically infinitely focusable (well up to point where it goes over edge or exposes center)
[07:18:25] <Loetmichel> couldnt that be used to spin a disc of hliquid aluminium to the right focusand then let it cool down?
[07:19:08] <XXCoder> possibly dunno
[07:19:21] <XXCoder> honestly its better and cheaper to do same to glass
[07:19:29] <XXCoder> in fact thats how Hubble one was made.
[07:19:40] <XXCoder> they didnt spin it at right speed so camera now has glasses.
[07:20:26] <chris_99> hmm i can't find if the telescopes actually used this now, but the principle is electrowetting, which i know is used for some liquid lenses
[07:26:26] <chris_99> ah the wiki mentions ' magnetically deformable liquid mirrors composed of a suspension of iron and silver nanoparticles in ethylene glycol '
[07:26:56] <XXCoder> sounds safer than mecury thats for sure.
[07:27:01] <chris_99> mmm
[07:27:20] <XXCoder> if that guy failed theres backup tank, but if THAT failed there would be large area evonmental cleanup.
[07:27:51] <chris_99> with the rotational ones i wonder if it splashes much
[07:28:44] <XXCoder> zero if properly designed
[07:28:52] <XXCoder> that mecury test was a success
[07:29:26] <XXCoder> it focused all light evenly so it was quite a lot better than average telescope, besides many limitions like stright uop only and of course toxic stuff
[07:29:44] <XXCoder> and it was VERY smooth. smoother than anything we can polish
[07:29:51] <chris_99> cool
[07:30:06] <XXCoder> liquid metal.
[07:30:15] <XXCoder> too damn bad mecury is so toxic
[07:30:19] <XXCoder> its useful.
[07:30:35] <chris_99> they mention a gallium one
[07:30:43] <Wolf_> yay upgrades ordered, one noga mini cool and extended x/y for the mill
[07:35:20] <XXCoder> cool
[07:36:36] <ganzuul> I remember how to do accurate measurements without an accurate reference now.
[07:37:17] <XXCoder> yeah?
[07:37:32] <ganzuul> You do two measurements, one where the error from the surface gets inverted, and then subtract the two
[07:37:53] <ganzuul> I'ma see if I can find the reference.
[07:39:10] <XXCoder> ok
[07:39:54] <Wolf_> blah got reply for the aliexpress gears, “The gears for this type mini lathe : ~link to a C3~ but the gears lack of stock now .”
[07:40:13] <ganzuul> On second thought I'll just ask the greybeards when they return...
[07:41:21] <XXCoder> lack of stock :P
[07:41:44] <Wolf_> yeah.. damn china
[07:42:13] <Wolf_> listing says 35 available
[07:42:18] <XXCoder> wish they lacked the lack of stock eh ;)
[07:44:22] <Wolf_> didn’t even answer my question of what was in the set...
[07:46:09] <ganzuul> XXCoder: Found it! https://youtu.be/cwdoUjynpEk?t=21m50s
[07:46:16] <ganzuul> "Reversal methods"
[07:46:33] <XXCoder> its captioned
[07:46:42] <XXCoder> well autocaptioned drat
[07:47:09] <enleth> Wolf_: you mean change gears for the sieg C3?
[07:47:19] <Wolf_> yup
[07:47:33] <enleth> Wolf_: check arceurotrade.co.uk
[07:48:44] <_methods> you check littlemachineshop?
[07:48:52] <enleth> Wolf_: they are AFAIK the only Sieg distributor in the world who don't rebrand and officially sell Sieg-branded stuff as such, so they get the good batches and have lots of spares.
[07:49:34] <Wolf_> yeah, the set there is $209 http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3446&category=1070498684
[07:49:40] <_methods> ahhh
[07:50:06] <ganzuul> XXCoder: Some text instead: http://www.aspe.net/publications/annual_2002/pdf/posters/2metro/4machtm/961.pdf
[07:50:08] <_methods> don't most people convert to belt drive?
[07:50:21] <Wolf_> not for the change gears
[07:50:49] <_methods> ah that sucks then
[07:51:01] <_methods> i smoked the gears on my x2 lol
[07:51:08] <_methods> did belt drive mod on it
[07:51:15] <Wolf_> yeah, mill isn’t the same as the lathe
[07:51:43] <_methods> yeah i was going to buy a lathe headstock to make a 4th axis
[07:51:59] <_methods> but decided was probably better just to make it from scratch in teh end
[07:52:14] <enleth> Wolf_: Arc has a gear ser for 50GBP
[07:52:19] <enleth> *set
[07:53:45] <enleth> huh. they even sell the bed separately as a spare part, that's new
[07:54:06] <_methods> littlemachineshop sells all those parts
[07:54:20] <_methods> it's usually better to piece one together from them than to buy one complete
[07:54:39] <_methods> half the stuff you on the mill/lathe you just throw away during conversion anyways
[07:54:59] * _methods wishes he'd known that before he bought a complete mill
[07:55:52] <Wolf_> I need the imperial set...
[07:56:14] <enleth> _methods: Arc has some parts made just for them by Sieg, I think the steel change gears are not normally available for C3
[07:56:39] <enleth> the factory set is polymer
[07:57:53] <enleth> ah, imperial are out of stock there too, bummer
[07:58:26] <Wolf_> yeah, then add shipping on top of the cost...
[07:58:31] <_methods> yeah same with LMS
[07:59:36] <_methods> if i knew then what i know know i'd have bought the fixed column, extended bed/base, and the high torque spindle head from LMS
[07:59:40] <Wolf_> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-17pcs-set-mini-lathe-gears-Metal-Cutting-Machine-gears-lathe-gears-Metal-transmission-gears/32358802795.html looks like the same set as LMS has for $209
[07:59:55] <_methods> probably on ebay then too
[08:00:55] <enleth> Wolf_: tbh I'd consider cutting my own gears if in a hurry
[08:02:49] <enleth> The factory gears are made of some generic acetate, blanks could be water-cut from a sheet with the keyway and all
[08:03:27] <enleth> and *maaaaaybe* water cut gears would work without machining
[08:03:30] <Wolf_> I have a full set of the plastic gears
[08:03:52] <enleth> ah, ok.
[08:03:59] <Wolf_> I’m sure water jetting a set of gears should be cheaper then $90 right? lol
[08:04:22] <enleth> should be.
[08:04:35] <_methods> if you supply the drawings maybe
[08:04:36] <SEL> hi it turns out I only need a spindle-enable
[08:04:40] <_methods> and the material
[08:08:52] <enleth> oh, by the way, I'm considering converting the C0 to a dividing head for the Bridgeport
[08:09:01] <enleth> the size is about right.
[08:17:52] <ganzuul> hehe
[08:18:11] <ganzuul> So the C0 will be the Bridgeport's hat?
[08:19:31] <enleth> I actually put it on the bport's table yesterday
[08:19:33] <ganzuul> nm, thought it went on the spidnle
[08:19:52] <enleth> looked hilarious
[08:20:20] <ganzuul> I could have bought a Bridgeport for less than the SC3...
[08:20:38] <ganzuul> But couldn't have taken it up the elevator.
[08:20:39] <enleth> ganzuul: google "mill dividing head"
[08:20:47] <ganzuul> did
[08:21:29] <enleth> actually it *is* a lathe-style headstock and tailstock mounted on the table
[08:22:07] <enleth> so a small lathe can be a dividing head if you swap the spindle motor for a servo
[08:23:27] <enleth> fun fact: C0 has a 120W brushed DC motor, so a decent servo could actually make it a better lathe...
[08:25:43] <ganzuul> What would that swing between the head and tail be called?
[08:25:53] <ganzuul> In a 5-axis
[08:27:31] <enleth> that's A, I think
[08:27:42] <enleth> B would be a rotary table
[08:36:20] <Sync> ganzuul: in parts you sure could have
[08:38:29] <enleth> oh yes. my bridgeport had to be completely disassembled to get it inside
[08:39:25] <enleth> and the column/base casting was too heavy for the elevator, so it had to go down some stairs
[08:40:11] <ganzuul> 5th floor...
[08:40:38] <ganzuul> Also, on rent.
[08:40:53] <ganzuul> And while I got 3-phase, it's for the stove.
[08:41:05] <enleth> well crap, I'd rather worry about the maximum floor load
[08:41:16] <ganzuul> 1 for hotplates, 2 for oven
[08:41:37] <ganzuul> Building was renovated in 1959. :)
[08:41:51] <ganzuul> They use a lot of large natural stone in the cement.
[08:42:59] <ganzuul> Would be hella funny to see people's faces when there's a huge milling machine where the stove should be.
[08:43:25] <enleth> still, a ton sitting on a 60x90 base is going rather far for a residental building
[08:43:35] <ganzuul> yeah
[08:44:13] <ganzuul> Also a ton, vibrating and biting into brass etc.
[08:44:42] <enleth> https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport - and that's how you get a bridgeport to fit 80x200cm doors with some stairs on the way
[08:45:28] <enleth> 20 hours non-stop with about 8 people helping
[08:46:09] <ganzuul> nice craters on the table. ;)
[08:46:33] <enleth> yeah, looks as if it was operated by drunk apes
[08:47:18] <enleth> swveral holes are even partially tapped
[08:47:53] <ganzuul> lmao
[08:48:06] <enleth> the guy probably didn't care and neglected setting proper tool lengths in the MDI control
[08:48:52] <ganzuul> Not sure, but you might get away with brazing bronze into the holes.
[08:49:38] <enleth> yep, will try that
[08:50:03] <enleth> and it needs some serious scraping to remove dents
[08:50:16] <ganzuul> aww
[08:51:00] <enleth> at least it isn't warped
[08:51:53] <enleth> the CNC/MDI models had relatively short tables and the X axis drivetrain hangs off of the saddle
[08:52:12] <ganzuul> Not a whole lot of rust either.
[08:52:25] <enleth> The ballscrew is stationary, it's the ballnut that rotates
[08:53:14] <enleth> yup. know why? it's so throughoutly drenched in coolant that it literally lost the ability to form rust.
[08:54:11] <ganzuul> cool
[08:54:17] <enleth> that's also why the paint is gone wherever coolant was flowing
[08:54:46] <enleth> the caulk separated from the iron due to the coolant
[08:55:07] <ganzuul> What sort of work could anyone so nonchallant have been doing with it?
[08:55:34] <enleth> no idea, but the ways are in a pretty ho
[08:55:37] <enleth> bleh
[08:55:44] <enleth> pretty good shape.
[08:56:03] <enleth> so I don't really care.
[08:56:14] <ganzuul> hm
[08:59:57] <enleth> it took 10l of kerosene to clean all the gunk off, but it looks pretty nice now
[09:01:44] <enleth> oh, by the way, if you ever happen to pull a table off of a mill by the t-slots, clamp them with a nut from above, don't rely on the friction
[09:02:05] <SpeedEvil> Do you still have all your digits?
[09:03:17] <enleth> I did and when I pulled the table end bracket off with the table hanging on an engine hoist 1.5m off the ground, it tipped to the side, broke the friction and slid off the t-nuts
[09:04:00] <enleth> made a dent in the floor and completely obliterated ind of the hoist's wheels
[09:04:50] <enleth> turns out the end bracket was quite a bit heavier than I anticipated
[09:05:11] <enleth> *one of
[09:06:18] <enleth> the table itself was fine though
[09:06:32] <ganzuul> hm
[09:06:42] <ganzuul> So table is steel, not cast iron...
[09:06:48] <enleth> chipped like a mm or two on the corners of the dovetails
[09:07:10] <enleth> no, it's 160kg of cast iron.
[09:11:14] <ganzuul> Heard someone say that trying to hold a hardened part in a hardened vice is trying to grab onto a wet bar of soap.
[09:13:46] <enleth> well, now I know better and I clamp the t-slots hard when pulling the table off the machine
[09:15:11] <enleth> everything else including the knee is trivial to hold with straps or chains but the table can only be lifted by the t-slots
[09:29:00] <lair82> cradek, I just got done doing a fresh install of the 2.7.0 wheezy iso, rtai flavor, and it's almost a little screwed up how easy it was to copy my config into the linuxcnc folder, and use the config picker in the drop down box to start my config
[09:29:30] <lair82> WAAAAAYYYYYYY easier than going thru all the bs of the command line.
[09:29:30] <cradek> yay!
[09:29:51] <cradek> and you'll get prompted for automatic updates when appropriate
[09:29:53] <lair82> Sorry for all the confusion the last couple of days,
[09:30:07] <cradek> eh
[09:30:16] <cradek> it's fine, glad you've got things going.
[09:31:56] <lair82> In less than a half hour !!!, That included setting up samba to work with our windows server, and thunar shares to see the nc_files folder on the g-code programmers computer in the office.
[09:37:20] <ganzuul> That's quick work.
[09:43:30] <archivist> practice makes things faster :)
[09:45:43] <ssi> morn
[09:46:57] <ganzuul> Dinosaurs on bouny castles are fast too.
[09:47:14] <ssi> wat
[09:47:36] <ganzuul> http://i.imgur.com/jSfP2qz.webm
[09:51:09] <ssi> ahahaha
[09:51:23] <lair82> wtf
[09:51:40] <Deejay> lol
[09:51:41] <ssi> lair82: make any progress?
[09:53:22] <lair82> said screw it, and am waiting for my new MB/CPU on monday, probably going to tear the one out of my mill at the shop and switch it over as well. It's a carbon copy of the one I am having issues with, so no point in leaving it, knowing that it might be a problem
[09:53:35] <ssi> gotcha
[09:54:06] <lair82> Guess I will have a pretty nice combo for building a pc for myself at home!
[09:54:14] <ssi> optimism :D
[09:55:16] <lair82> Have to, if not someone would need to put me in one of those white jackets, with my arms tied behind my back, in a padded room, with weekly visitation!!!
[09:56:11] <ssi> :D
[09:58:39] <lair82> The crazy thing is, I went out yesterday, and tried to run the latency test on my machine, and it isn't even installed on my machine, so apperently, I have been having other problems with building these wheezy machines, that I didn't even know about. But I know for sure when I bench tested my machine, I ran a latency test,
[10:00:01] <lair82> Oh well, now seeing how easy it actually is just using the releases off of the livecd, I won't be messing around with the command line much any more.
[10:02:11] <ssi> yeah personally even if I needed to do something nonstandard I would start with the livecd
[10:02:14] <ssi> especially now that it's debian
[10:02:27] <ssi> my gantry machines all run joints_axes, and I still start with livecd
[10:45:11] * JT-Shop wonders how many times I'll have to run this part to get it right?
[10:45:45] <cradek> you'll get it perfect on the last attempt
[10:47:09] <JT-Shop> good thing it is the bottom of the drawer lol
[10:55:11] <Wolf_Mill> sob.. one of my change gears went off the back of my bench and now I cant find it...
[10:56:09] <enleth> Do you have any experience with used Advanced Motion servo drives/amplifiers? They are dirt cheap on eBay and seem to be suitable for the SEM brushed DC servos used in my Bridgeport.
[10:57:27] <ssi> enleth: I've used them a bunch
[10:57:31] <jdh> they are prettt popular
[10:57:56] <enleth> The company seems to have gone under before the Internet caught on, there are hardly any datasheets, but for $40 a piece it seems to be worth a risk.
[10:58:03] <ssi> I like them because they're inexpensive and fairly plentiful used, and they're very simple
[10:58:08] <ssi> the datasheets are out there
[10:58:12] <ssi> what model are you looking at
[10:58:22] <ssi> http://www.a-m-c.com
[10:58:27] <ssi> and they're definitely not gone
[10:58:35] <ssi> you can still buy those drives new, but they're more like $1500
[10:59:12] <enleth> Not sure. The servos are SEM MT30H4-44, 160V.
[10:59:29] <enleth> Ah, so they are still there, thanks.
[11:00:03] <ssi> what sort of peak current do those motors need
[11:00:16] <enleth> Around 4.5A
[11:00:47] <ssi> k so the trick with AMC model numbers is the first number is peak current, the second number is max voltage / 10
[11:01:01] <ssi> so a 30A8 drive is a brushed motor drive that's 80V, 15A continuous, 30A peak
[11:01:12] <ssi> they typically come in 80V and 200V versions
[11:01:26] <enleth> The drive I have right now gets 240V U-V, the transformer is center tapped
[11:01:38] <enleth> 120V off the tap each.
[11:01:54] <ssi> 120V rectified and filtered is about 190V, and works well for the 200V drives
[11:01:57] <enleth> So I'd need the 200V
[11:02:12] <ssi> 170V rather
[11:02:29] <ssi> if you get AMC drives that end in AC, they have IEC sockets and an integral rectifier/filter
[11:03:13] <ssi> unfortunately the 80V drives are way more common
[11:04:20] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-25A20V-LF3-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER-/201415808739?hash=item2ee55156e3
[11:04:23] <enleth> And for a non-AC part I'd have to provide external rectification and filtering, I presume?
[11:04:23] <ssi> something like that will work well for you
[11:04:25] <ssi> yep
[11:04:34] <ssi> the drive has a DC bus
[11:04:49] <ssi> the AC parts have the integral rectifier to drive the dc bus
[11:04:55] <ssi> without it, you just have to provide your own
[11:04:58] <ssi> however you choose to do so
[11:05:08] <enleth> Oh, one more thing. Are there analog input versions?
[11:05:14] <ssi> yeah most of them are analog input
[11:05:19] <ssi> take a look at the one I linked
[11:05:23] <ssi> there's a pic of a closeup of the connector
[11:05:36] <ssi> +/- ref in is a +/-10V analog command input
[11:05:52] <ssi> they can be set up in current/torque mode or velocity mode
[11:05:56] <ssi> velocity mode on that drive requires a tach
[11:06:05] <ssi> some of them can derive velocity feedback from an encoder
[11:06:17] <ssi> but it's a bit annoying because the encoder inputs are typically single ended on them
[11:06:22] <enleth> Looks perfect.
[11:06:32] <enleth> My servos have tachs
[11:06:36] <ssi> excellent
[11:06:57] <ssi> that'll be a great setup. tuning velocity mode servos in linuxcnc is super easy
[11:07:26] <ssi> the other thing to keep in mind is how AMC does inhibit/enable
[11:07:35] <ssi> not sure about this particular drive because it's got three different inhibit pins
[11:07:54] <ssi> but typically the AMC drives have active low inhibit pins
[11:08:07] <ssi> and linuxcnc prefers to be set up with enable pins; it's safer
[11:08:26] <enleth> So the deal is, the machine I have has a single servo drive and switches motors on the hot side, and I'd like to replace it with three of those but keep the TNC 131 control for now
[11:08:27] <ssi> but the drives have a jumper internally
[11:08:39] <ssi> you can remove the top cover and remove the jumper, and the drive becomes an active low enable
[11:09:21] <enleth> The cool thing about this setup is that ballscrews are fitted with brakes
[11:09:22] <ssi> I don't know anything about the tnc control, so I can't begin to imagine what kind of issues you might have with it
[11:10:42] <enleth> I expect none, TNC has three motor enable lines that control the relays through which motor tach and winding wires are routed
[11:11:04] <ssi> hah well that's pretty comprehensive
[11:11:13] <enleth> I can route the input through there instead
[11:11:15] <ssi> I'd still recommend trying to wire it so it enable/disables the drive at the same time
[11:11:22] <enleth> sure.
[11:11:24] <ssi> even if you retain the power relay
[11:12:24] <enleth> The next deal is, I'd like to try very hard to keep the TNC and connect a LinuxCNC-based control in parallel
[11:12:36] <enleth> vintage factor, mostly
[11:12:43] <ssi> sounds like a lot of effort, not a lot of bang for the buck
[11:12:57] <enleth> But this control is actually a great DRO.
[11:13:17] <enleth> This machine is for fun, not buck anyway.
[11:14:42] <ssi> I hear ya, just be aware it's gonna complicate things exponentially
[11:14:45] <enleth> I threw an equivalent of $2600 at it already and I don't really expect a return anytime soon
[11:16:05] <enleth> Just getting it into the building was exponentially more expensive than any sane person would have agrees to, so don't worry
[11:16:23] <ssi> yeah, I know how that goes
[11:16:39] <enleth> expensive effort-wise in this case
[11:16:53] <ssi> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/10672253_10100490548539302_6407225546292985700_n.jpg?oh=96177f1768e642c00bfd4a99435932e4&oe=5671AC52
[11:16:57] <enleth> I posted a link to the photos earlier today.
[11:17:51] <ssi> hah i like the hoist supporting the liftgate
[11:17:52] <ssi> that's a neat trick
[11:18:31] <enleth> which photo?
[11:18:39] <ssi> https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport/img_5946.jpg
[11:19:06] <enleth> Yeah. I did not have a forklift at hand.
[11:19:15] <ssi> ug you had to disassemble it and take it down stairs
[11:19:16] <ssi> that's horrible
[11:19:21] <enleth> Yep.
[11:19:53] <enleth> Well, everything except the column went down the elevator.
[11:20:43] <enleth> But it's one of those shitty hydraulic ones that can blow a pressure fuse when overloaded, so the column took the stairs.
[11:20:51] <ssi> yeah
[11:21:11] <enleth> It was actually easy and comfortable
[11:21:20] <ssi> yeah it's just a lot of work
[11:21:28] <ssi> gives you a nice opportunity to clean the machine tho
[11:21:43] <enleth> No, I mean just the stair patt
[11:21:49] <enleth> *part
[11:21:50] <CaptHindsight> "How to move almost anything with an engine hoist and a pallet jack"
[11:22:08] <enleth> CaptHindsight: no pallet jack either
[11:22:15] <ssi> CaptHindsight: step 1: use the hoist and pallet jack to somehow concoct an elaborate scheme to rob a bank
[11:22:19] <ssi> step 2: buy a forklift
[11:22:46] <ssi> I paid more for my forklift than most of my machines
[11:22:48] <ssi> but it was WORTH IT
[11:22:59] <Wolf_Mill> ssi is gonna hate me
[11:23:12] <Wolf_Mill> I have 2 forklifts I got for free
[11:23:13] <ssi> it's ok, I hate everyone
[11:23:22] <enleth> One thing: IKEA LINMON table legs make for great heavy-duty rollers
[11:23:27] <ssi> enleth: lol
[11:23:29] <enleth> $3 a pop
[11:23:38] <ssi> I use iron water pipe
[11:23:44] <enleth> Too thin
[11:23:54] <enleth> Catches on things
[11:23:54] <ssi> I haven't had any trouble with it
[11:24:03] <ssi> I moved my bridgeport that way
[11:24:18] <ssi> had to flip the head over to get it through doorways, and rolled it back into place on pipes
[11:24:22] <ssi> that was back in my old basement
[11:24:28] <ssi> moved it with the forklift last time
[11:24:35] <enleth> 1/2in pipes catch on the leveling pads on mine
[11:24:53] <CaptHindsight> sometime I hire a crane, and just for fun have them lift the machine over the building a few times just to get my moneys worth
[11:24:55] <Sync> yeah a forklift is almost worth its weight in gold ssi
[11:24:57] <Wolf_Mill> pipe comes in more then just 1/2" :P
[11:25:04] <ssi> Sync: it's definitely NOT worth its weight in gold
[11:25:08] <ssi> my forklift weighs 9k
[11:25:21] <ssi> 131 250 troy ounces
[11:25:37] <ssi> that's ~$157million USD
[11:25:46] <ssi> can buy a lot of forklifts with the weight of my forklift in gold :D
[11:25:47] <Wolf_Mill> Sync: want to buy one of my forklifts? :D
[11:26:20] <Sync> no
[11:26:26] <Sync> but when you need it, you need it :D
[11:26:28] <ssi> yep
[11:26:32] <Sync> or do things very shady
[11:26:41] <ssi> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/10672253_10100490548539302_6407225546292985700_n.jpg?oh=96177f1768e642c00bfd4a99435932e4&oe=5671AC52
[11:26:44] <ssi> I had to rent that one
[11:26:48] <ssi> 12,500lb lift
[11:26:51] <ssi> with 96" forks
[11:26:58] <enleth> ssi: if you ever have to take half a ton of iron down some stairs, take a look at the last two photos
[11:27:15] <ssi> enleth: yea I've seen that procedure a few times
[11:27:42] <enleth> The best thing about it: it's safe
[11:28:06] <enleth> The weight either moves vertically or on rollers horizontally
[11:28:22] <enleth> Never both at the same time
[11:28:40] <CaptHindsight> for the occasional machine move a backhoe might be more useful
[11:28:57] <enleth> Always can stop to think it over, it will wait safe and static
[11:28:57] <ssi> backhoes are too damn big to store
[11:29:03] <CaptHindsight> then you can also dig foundations and trenches in your spare time
[11:29:09] <ssi> but I would love to have one
[11:29:36] <Sync> or you just cram 6 people in the staircase and lift shit
[11:29:44] <Wolf_Mill> I got rid of my backhoe, was half useless on my property
[11:30:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnclifttruck.com/UploadData/Hyundai/ForkLift180D-7E%20large.png nice size
[11:30:32] <ssi> that's a lot of machine
[11:31:06] <CaptHindsight> the thing is there's always some machine that is just too heavy
[11:31:11] <ssi> yep
[11:31:31] <ssi> I'm fairly content with a 5k lift and a good rental guy for exceptional situations
[11:31:35] <CaptHindsight> best to have a gantry crane as part of the building :)
[11:31:37] <ssi> which is how I dealt with the big cinci
[11:31:48] <enleth> By the way, there's some photos made during the cleanup and reassembly: https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport%202015-07-29 https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport%202015-08-01
[11:31:49] <Sync> we once had a still forklift go haywire on us
[11:31:56] <CaptHindsight> and a bay to drive a truck into
[11:31:58] <ssi> oop lunch meeting bbiab
[11:32:03] <Sync> drove around slowly even with the estop
[11:32:40] <enleth> I think it went quite smoothly, 6 weeks down to individual parts and back, in spare time only.
[11:33:44] <enleth> And with no prior experience whatsoever in handling or servicing machines of this size.
[11:34:34] <CaptHindsight> https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport%202015-07-29/IMG_5006.jpg did you really do it this way?
[11:34:52] <enleth> Yep.
[11:35:24] <enleth> Those side "supports" are fiddly on their own.
[11:35:51] <enleth> But with pallets jammed in there quite tight, they had nowhere to go.
[11:36:49] <enleth> If there's anything loose bricks and boards do well, it's supporting purely vertical loads.
[11:38:01] <enleth> For the next time, I will weld adjustable vertical leg extenders for the hoist.
[11:38:36] <enleth> But there was no time and there were some bricks, so.
[11:39:11] <malcom2073> That's awesome
[11:40:09] <malcom2073> That give me a really good idea on how to get my engine crane higher so it can stick the ram back on my mill, never thought about putting wood blocks under it
[11:40:12] <enleth> Getting shit done, it's what I do.
[11:40:13] <CaptHindsight> nobody liked my idea of flooding the basement and pushing the machine into it on a barge, and then pulling the plug for the drain
[11:41:01] <malcom2073> In my mill, the eye hook is broken off, I'm debating trying to drill it out and stick another one in, or just try to wrap it with straps to lfit it
[11:41:06] <malcom2073> I like the barge idea
[11:41:18] <malcom2073> Good way to get down steps too
[11:42:07] <q3k> can confirm, enleth's bridgeport importing device was glorious
[11:42:14] <CaptHindsight> sand would also work
[11:42:16] <q3k> (was there to marvel it)
[11:42:38] <enleth> malcom2073: what about threaded rod and locknuts?
[11:42:47] <CaptHindsight> worked for the pyramids
[11:43:24] <enleth> They did not have the Chinese to make $100 engine hoists.
[11:43:26] <malcom2073> enleth not understanding what you mean
[11:44:06] <archivist> scaffold poles as rollers planks as tracks/temporary road
[11:45:00] <enleth> malcom2073: the Egyptians making the pyramids.
[11:45:05] <enleth> malcom2073: ah, wait
[11:45:08] <archivist> as for cheap cmms there is another about 60 miles away http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121732579114
[11:45:12] <enleth> malcom2073: the threaded rod.
[11:45:25] <enleth> malcom2073: OK, does your machine have an accessible hollow in the ram?
[11:45:28] <malcom2073> Lol yeah the threaded rod.
[11:45:37] <malcom2073> enleth: yes it does
[11:45:46] <archivist> I just went to get threaded rod to move my cmm :)
[11:46:07] <malcom2073> enleth: http://mikesshop.net/millmove/image033.jpg
[11:46:14] <CaptHindsight> archivist: another bargain in parts alone
[11:46:30] <archivist> I cannot afford that one though
[11:46:30] <enleth> malcom2073: well, put a rod through the hole, put a nut and a locknut inside, put a nut outside so it doesn't fall in, thread a new eyelet onto the rod?
[11:46:40] <malcom2073> oh in the ram itself
[11:46:45] <malcom2073> Unknown
[11:46:52] <CaptHindsight> those would make for great printers
[11:46:54] <malcom2073> I'd have to drill through the broken off eye hook threads to find out heh
[11:47:04] <enleth> malcom2073: ah, so the hole is blind?
[11:47:16] <enleth> malcom2073: it's a V-ram machine, right?
[11:47:19] <malcom2073> enleth: No clue, they broke the eye off
[11:47:47] <archivist> drilling threads out is not too hard
[11:47:51] <malcom2073> enleth: not a bridgeport
[11:47:58] <malcom2073> archivist: 1-1/4" threads?
[11:48:16] <malcom2073> Actualyl it's probably less than 1"
[11:48:40] <archivist> I go so far with a drill then grind outwards
[11:48:42] <enleth> malcom2073: OK, right. Couldn't tell from a photo, looks a bit like the dovetail on the column of a V-ram bridgeport but I've never disassembled one.
[11:49:11] <archivist> peel the thread out like a helicoil
[11:49:25] <malcom2073> Yeah, that's probably what I'll do, if I can't figure out how to lift it with straps
[11:49:28] <enleth> malcom2073: mine is a rigid ram model and it's got a buttload of space inside the ram, easily accessible by taking off side covers.
[11:49:47] <archivist> smaller hole and thry a taper thread extractor first though
[11:50:18] <enleth> malcom2073: one time I had to extract a huge thread from a hole, I used a jigsaw. Seriously.
[11:50:19] <malcom2073> enleth: Ah, my ram is solid cast, but it may be hollow and accesable fro mthe underside, I didn't get under it to look when we took it off :)
[11:50:36] <archivist> I did a traction engine steam cylinder stud that way
[11:51:27] <enleth> malcom2073: drilled a small hole in the center, put a fine tooth saw on the jigsaw, a common woodworking one, and just sawed through the bolt right up to the edge of the thread
[11:51:34] <malcom2073> nice
[11:51:38] <archivist> hardened screws I use a diamond bur
[11:51:44] <enleth> malcom2073: did that in several places, used a hammer to bang the cake-piece-shaped parts in
[11:52:08] <enleth> malcom2073: it works because, even if the bolt was hardened, the inside should still be pretty soft
[11:52:26] <malcom2073> yeah
[11:52:28] <enleth> Hardening usually affects the thread surface and a little material under it
[11:52:30] <archivist> or get a portable spark eroder
[11:52:46] <enleth> A common jigsaw will handle relatively soft steel on slow speed just fine.
[11:53:25] <enleth> Other than holding it there and waiting for it to chew through the material, it was a breeze.
[11:53:42] <archivist> I try to avoid the thread of the casting so tend to be gentle
[11:54:42] <enleth> archivist: how long does it take for a spark eroder to remove a 3" bolt?
[11:54:45] <malcom2073> Yeah, if it's a blind hole I'll have to be really careful, if not, I can just stick a nut underneath
[11:55:01] <enleth> archivist: that's what I had to deal with
[11:55:47] <archivist> enleth, I had a 1/2" tap taken out of a job, just took it to a local shop that had a machine
[11:55:55] <enleth> (actually, it was a pipe cap made of a hunk of steel)
[11:56:05] <archivist> iirc it was 15-20 minutes
[11:56:15] <enleth> (or rather a plug, it was inside the pipe)
[11:56:37] <archivist> hammer around the pit, it loosens the thread :)
[11:56:43] <archivist> pipe
[11:57:16] <archivist> on the outside of the thread with another hammer the opposing side
[11:58:13] <enleth> archivist: it was completely inside, nothing to grab on
[11:58:22] <enleth> So just like a broken bolt
[11:59:16] <enleth> Anyways, the jigsaw method worked in a pinch. I guess I should film it and put it on YT or something.
[12:01:11] <archivist> I should write up how I deal with stuck/seized threads one day
[12:02:10] <archivist> punch and small hammer to send a shockwave down a thread is one
[12:02:27] <CaptHindsight> Rule 1: Don't break it
[12:02:52] <enleth> Oh, that reminds me. I still can't think of a good way to remove bearing locknuts from ballscrews.
[12:03:18] <archivist> on the pillar drill I started on sunday I have on grub screw that is still fighting
[12:03:54] <archivist> one
[12:04:00] <enleth> I mean, the locknut is engineered specifically to not come off, the ballscrew is engineered to turn freely, and the intended result is that the ballscrew does not rotate and the locknut does. Getting there was tricky.
[12:04:38] <enleth> And I'm sure as hell the way I did it was never in the official Bridgeport factory service manual
[12:05:13] <enleth> Incidentally, the field service manual I got with the machine says absolutely nothing on how to get the damn thing off
[12:05:15] <archivist> two bits of wood as soft jaws
[12:05:41] <enleth> It just says "remove the locknut".
[12:06:11] <enleth> Actually, on the same page, it describes pretty trivial actions in great detail as if to help someone who isn't very experienced with servicing machine tools.
[12:06:40] <enleth> But the locknut? Yeah, just remove it, like that. Heh heh. Good luck.
[12:07:48] <enleth> archivist: I put the toothed pulley on, with the key in place, and grabbed that with a pretty hefty soft jaw pipe wrench. No go.
[12:08:01] <CaptHindsight> enleth: have a pic? Only one nut on the end?
[12:08:18] <enleth> CaptHindsight: I'm uploading the pics right now.
[12:08:33] <archivist> some bar and round stuff I grip with rope and a bar
[12:08:57] <archivist> use the winch principle in reverse
[12:09:35] <enleth> archivist: tried that. Didn't do a crap.
[12:09:36] <archivist> sometimes the rope snaps :)
[12:09:51] <archivist> more rope
[12:13:24] <enleth> So, here's the locknut, Y axis ballscrew, fron of the knee, obstructed by the belt housing: https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport-locknut/20150718_221200.jpg - the deal is, you can't remove the belt housing without removing those bearings.
[12:13:57] <enleth> You can't pull the screw out of the knee because the ball nut is not supposed to be removed and the hole is too small.
[12:14:35] <enleth> And you can't remove the Y axis ballscrew the way it is supposed to be removed, up through the opening in the top of the knee, because it's got those bearings on, with the belt housing and all.
[12:15:09] <enleth> Well, that's how you do it: https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport-locknut/20150719_192605.jpg https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/pictures/Bridgeport-locknut/20150719_192614.jpg
[12:15:26] <enleth> Yep, a self-tightening look made out of the toothed belt
[12:15:29] <enleth> *loop
[12:15:59] <enleth> The crowbar is just for some additional leverage on the cast belt housing
[12:16:22] <enleth> Jammed in there as if the housing were designed for this.
[12:17:44] <enleth> Please never show that to any ex-Bridgeport servicemen, I wouldn't wany anyone dying of horror and/or laughter.
[12:19:06] <enleth> *want
[12:24:20] <archivist> could have drilled holes in the pulley to fit a handle to
[12:26:31] <enleth> I contemplated that, but this solution came first and the worst thing it could do was damage a belt.
[12:26:39] <enleth> It's easier to replace a belt than a pulley.
[12:26:45] <archivist> yup
[12:28:04] <enleth> It's one of the four things that make servicing this model a real PITA.
[12:30:55] <enleth> The other ones are oiling lines pulled through very small holes, forcing one to cut them instead of just backing them off with the coupling still attached; the fact that the ram cannot be just slid back to lift the knee off, it has to go off first; and the fact that tramming front-to-back consists of scraping or shimming.
[12:32:54] <enleth> The last two are just consequences of the rigid ram design, the locknut problem is probably just a feature of all such locknuts, but I'm at loss about the oiling lines, why would they not make it easier to pull them out without cutting?
[12:34:16] <archivist> I think servicing is often an afterthought
[12:35:57] <CaptHindsight> conceived the iconic design in 1936
[12:36:20] <enleth> Could be. I guess that most commercial users of such machines just get a new one if a serious problem crops up, rid themselves of the old one and let someone else overhaul the machine and resell it further.
[12:36:27] <archivist> when stripping and scraping was the done thing
[12:38:29] <enleth> Anyway, I made some changes to the oiling line layout and bought quick-disconnect couplings from Delimon to make the job easier in the future.
[12:39:03] <enleth> The one thing I have yet to do is put circular connections on all cable bundles.
[12:40:51] <enleth> With connectors on every bundle, the machine could be disassembled into basic subsystems, each under half a ton and able to fit through a standard door, in less than an hour.
[12:45:18] <ssi> back
[12:55:37] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ExQ4utHEo
[12:58:05] <ssi> :D
[12:58:26] <ganzuul> Gyroscopes are bonkers.
[12:58:31] <ssi> lol yes
[13:00:27] <ssi> this guy does such nice work
[13:00:29] <ssi> makes me so mad
[13:00:35] <ganzuul> lol
[13:01:20] <ganzuul> He has a really nice macro lens and camera technique. You can make up for a lot with that.
[13:01:28] <ssi> yep
[13:01:36] <ssi> and he puts a lot of effort into production
[13:01:44] <ssi> but even so, his machine work is quite good
[13:01:49] <ssi> and he puts a TON of time into it
[13:04:17] <ganzuul> He uses drill rod / silver steel a lot.
[13:04:22] <ssi> yep
[13:05:39] <ganzuul> And an infinite supply of brass...
[13:05:43] <ssi> yeah seriously
[13:05:49] <ssi> he's got to have $1500 in brass in his clock
[13:06:10] <ganzuul> I need to steal and re-melt a church bell.
[13:06:14] <ssi> lol
[13:25:16] <Simonious> what's the trick to consistently selecting the face you want in fusion 360 for CAM operatoins?
[13:36:56] <Jymmm> IF you have low water pressure (23 PSI), is it possible for the hot water tank to produce air in the line?
[13:37:57] <Jymmm> The plumber is saying that the "demand is greater than the supply" and that's how air is getting in the line.
[13:38:13] <cradek> is it set too hot?
[13:38:21] <Jymmm> Now, how air gets into a closed system is beyond me.
[13:38:32] <Jymmm> cradek: It's set to "A"
[13:38:43] <Jymmm> "C" being damn hot
[13:38:45] <cradek> your spigots don't SUCK water, so I'm tempted to not believe the plumber (but I am not a plumber and s/he is)
[13:38:50] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: is this a hot water tank in the roof?
[13:39:10] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: No, but it is the highest source of water in the house
[13:39:16] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: many designs are filled from a cold water tank at atmospheric pressure
[13:39:38] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: actually work out a schematic for what's at pressure
[13:40:33] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: The bottom of the HWT is about 8" above the supply line fwiw
[13:40:53] <SpeedEvil> 23PSI is about 60 feet of head.
[13:40:56] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: It's a mobile home
[13:41:20] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I dont know what that means.
[13:41:52] <SpeedEvil> If you have 23PSI of incoming water, it is enough to raise the water by 60 feet in a pipe.
[13:42:32] <Jymmm> They just repiped all the supply lines 3weks ago. Found and repaired a few leaks last week, and now still air in the hot water, just not as much as last week
[13:42:34] <SpeedEvil> 23PSI will presumably be at 0 flow. At high flows, the pressure will drop, eventually it will hit 0 pressure
[13:42:37] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: ah, ok
[13:42:56] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Turnign on the hot water drops the pressure to 20psi
[13:43:38] <_methods> you should attach a vacuum assist line to your cranium to boost it
[13:44:02] <_methods> hahah
[13:44:11] <_methods> i kill myself
[13:44:12] * Jymmm attaches a 2000psi tank to _methods rectum... you are just too full of shit and need to blwo it all out
[13:44:14] <SpeedEvil> What pressure is the hot water cylinder at. Is it at 23PSI over atmospheric, or is it filled with a valve and kept full but at atmospheric pressure?
[13:44:32] <SpeedEvil> Does the hot water come otu the tap at more-or-less the same speed as the cold?
[13:44:44] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: same as the cold, yes.
[13:45:00] <_methods> sorry Jymmm i couldn't resist
[13:45:03] <SpeedEvil> what do you emean 'air in the line'
[13:45:05] <SpeedEvil> how much
[13:45:29] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: If you turn on the hot kitchen faucet, there is an initial burst of air.
[13:46:02] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Last week, it was every 45 minutes or so before they fixed all the leaks fro the repiping they did.....
[13:46:18] <cradek> I bet it's just set too hot...
[13:46:22] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Now, it's about after 2hrs that the burst of initial came comes around.
[13:46:45] <Jymmm> ^air
[13:48:26] <Jymmm> cradek: Well, I can turn it down some, but these plumbers (I've must have met 6 of them from this comapny so far) all have a bit of arrogance to them, so it's difficult to believe everything they've been saying as half of it has been wrong/misleading
[13:48:26] <cradek> do you hear it boiling?
[13:48:32] <Jymmm> no, not at all.
[13:48:40] <archivist> you can get dissolved air in your water coming out if heated
[13:49:00] <Jymmm> brb
[13:57:50] <archivist> why they have air pumps on condensing steam engines
[14:01:49] <Jymmm> archivist: I can understand the excessive heatdisolving air into the lines, but what he just wrote up as a recommendation is to replace the (seized) pressure pump for $1500, never mentioning anythng about the HWT temperature being the issue.
[14:03:01] <archivist> duff pump leaves water stationary in a boiler, over heats it pushes the air out of solution
[14:20:19] <Jymmm> Ok, measured the temp from the closet faucet (3ft away) at 140F. Turned down the HWT a full notch and we'll see what it is in a couple of hours and if the air goes away.
[14:22:44] <archivist> also depends how aerated your supply is
[14:23:11] <_methods> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/microsoft-is-downloading-windows-10-to-pcs-even-if-you-dont-reserve-a-copy/
[14:23:24] <_methods> that's funny
[14:23:25] <Jymmm> archivist: My "supply" is a million gallon tank 50ft away
[14:23:56] <cradek> not all PCs
[14:23:58] <archivist> how far away is of no relevance
[14:24:11] <_methods> just ones infected with microsoft
[14:24:54] <cradek> Jymmm: I googled for optimal hot water temperature, and all I got for you is this: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--t2nyJqwc--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/196gh7q3rcp2tjpg.jpg
[14:25:45] <Jymmm> cradek: WTF, that's not even close! Now this on the other hand... http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/bc/e8/3b/funky-monkey.jpg
[14:26:00] <cradek> yes that one looks more like me
[14:26:06] <_methods> lol
[14:26:11] <Jymmm> lol
[14:26:23] <_methods> all pictures need to be run through dropbox
[14:26:26] <_methods> wtf are you guys doing
[14:26:30] <cradek> I think I recognize him from my drum circle
[14:27:08] <Jymmm> cradek: Real genuine faux animal skin drums?
[14:27:14] <archivist> removing slow services from the loop
[14:27:23] <cradek> Jymmm: you know I'm just saying words, right?
[14:27:44] <Jymmm> cradek: of course, as am I.
[14:28:20] <Jymmm> Thanks for the feedback on the air water things crap, much appreciated cradek and archivist!
[14:29:11] <Jymmm> If the lower temp doesn't help, then I'll shutoff the supply to the HWT tonight and see if the lines still hold pressure in the morning.
[14:30:10] <archivist> I dont see the logic in that statement
[14:30:52] <Jymmm> archivist: If I shut off the supply to the HWT, and there is no leaks in the lines, in the morning there should still be 23PSI.
[14:31:19] <Jymmm> If there is a leak, then I wouldn't have any pressure in the morning
[14:31:32] <Jymmm> or dramatically reduced.
[14:32:15] <archivist> you are still failing at a certain logical deduction, how can air get into something at a higher pressure
[14:33:37] <archivist> air at sea level being about 1000 millibar or 14.7 psi absolute
[14:34:00] <Jymmm> archivist: I don't know, I understand that at 23PSI of water, any "leak" would keep air out. But it's a simple test so I thought I'd try it at least (by elimination)
[14:34:19] <Jymmm> ^process of
[14:37:41] <archivist> wrong idea, a hot water boiler with all outlets closed and heated becomes a pressure vessel
[14:38:42] <Jymmm> But that vessel with supply turned off, should have less pressure 8 hours later, if there is a leak.
[14:39:04] <Jymmm> (HWT turned to 'pilot' as well)
[14:39:10] <archivist> never ever do that if the heating element is still powered
[14:39:32] <Jymmm> archivist: Yeah, stem go kaboom
[14:39:35] <Jymmm> steam
[14:39:47] <archivist> there must be a way to release pressure
[14:40:17] <Jymmm> There's the (I can never remember the funky name of that ) pressure relief valve on the side of the tank.
[14:40:34] <Jymmm> Ok, bbl
[14:47:55] <roycroft> i'm using ulwd elements in my brew system now
[14:48:03] <roycroft> they're slightly tolerant of being run dry for a bit
[14:48:08] <roycroft> standard elements burn up in seconds
[14:49:02] <roycroft> i'm not sure how they affect the blowing up thing though
[15:40:26] <Praesmeodymium> therelief vlve on the side of a hwt should never be used, they never close again correctly after that seal has been broken once. if its the part I am thinking of
[16:19:45] <XXCoder> heys
[16:39:00] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/storage/
[16:47:58] <enleth> holy crap, *why* are the Advanced Motion Control servo drives so cheap?
[16:48:13] <andypugh> New or second hand?
[16:48:21] <enleth> Second hand.
[16:48:30] <andypugh> Because they sell so many of them new
[16:49:06] <enleth> I just found out that the old shitty Bosch Z15-A1 board I have in my mill sells for $250 about once a month.
[16:49:20] <enleth> An equivalent AMC sells for $40
[16:49:26] <furrywolf> zee is the expert on shopping for usc amc drives.
[16:49:33] <furrywolf> used
[16:49:58] <ssi> only insofar as he keeps killing them and having to buy new ones
[16:51:11] <enleth> I mean, I understand that this Bosch is probably bought by people who have a mill with one that just died, want the mill working ASAP and don't have the time, skill and intention to upgrade
[16:51:30] <enleth> But it's still part funny, part scary
[16:52:32] <enleth> $250 for a used late 70's board that's huge and extremely crude
[16:52:56] <andypugh> How much does it cost to change all the connectors to suit a differen board?
[16:53:15] <ssi> enleth: that's because working replacement boards are fairly scarce
[16:53:23] <ssi> and it's cheaper to spend $250 on a replacement board than to do a retrofit
[16:53:33] <enleth> If in a hurry, yeah.
[16:54:11] <enleth> Well, I'll be happy to provide someone with a working replacement for their mill, at a fair market price.
[16:54:27] <enleth> It's going to pay for the AMCs and some more.
[16:55:59] <enleth> Probably a new transformer, I'm not sure if the original one would handle all 3 servos at the same time.
[16:56:51] <andypugh> It will very rarely have to
[16:57:08] <enleth> andypugh: under the original TNC 131 control, sure.
[16:57:44] <andypugh> Even under LinuxCNC you rarely have all 3 axes running at max power at the same time. 45 degree plunge cut?
[16:57:59] <furrywolf> speaking of transformers, after seeing the other wolf's overly LEDed cabinet, should I stick one of those chinese volt/amp meters in my cabinet to show what my steppers are pulling? :)
[16:58:29] <andypugh> I like that my cheap step-down modules all display voltage
[16:58:44] <furrywolf> I have 65V at 15A...
[16:58:46] <enleth> andypugh: milling a 45deg slope that is also angled at 45deg to the table?
[16:59:05] <Deejay> gn8
[16:59:06] <andypugh> enleth: Yes. That’s the only time you would run all the servos at max
[16:59:27] <enleth> Better safe than sorry or so they say.
[16:59:57] <andypugh> “They” only say that when “they” are not paying.
[17:00:19] <andypugh> If the transformer melts, buy a new one. But no point borrowing trouble from the future.
[17:00:49] <enleth> Come to think of it, I could just put a thermostat on the transformer and route the main safety circuit through it.
[17:01:08] <andypugh> or just monitor it, see if it is struggling
[17:01:38] <andypugh> Has anyone ever seen a 3D model of the Multifix holders?
[17:01:56] <enleth> The mill already routes this circuit through servo thermostats, so it's even consistent with the factory design.
[17:02:03] <XXCoder> guys how do I calculate turns on ball screw?
[17:02:10] <XXCoder> so movement would be accurate
[17:02:17] <andypugh> You believe the spec
[17:03:05] <andypugh> Unless you have measuring equipment more accurate than the ballscrew
[17:03:14] <PCW> Servo systems especially tend to draw less than 10% of their peak power ( Because when you have high forces you are usually moving slowly)
[17:03:19] <enleth> furrywolf: I'm thinking of putting indicator lights on all limit switches, ballscrew brakes and handwheel clutches, just for the heck of it.
[17:04:06] <enleth> It would even contribute a little to safety. Not much. But enough to justify some useless bling.
[17:04:42] <Wolf_Mill> 50% useless bling > http://i.imgur.com/l7KoMTm.jpg
[17:05:02] <furrywolf> I already called yours overly LEDed. :P
[17:05:34] <enleth> Wolf_Mill: pimp my mill, eh?
[17:05:53] <XXCoder> so.. many.... blinking... lights
[17:06:10] <Wolf_Mill> really the overkill is the 3 volt meters for the stepper drivers
[17:06:16] <XXCoder> gonna love that movie
[17:07:36] <furrywolf> the 3 volt meters all wired to 1 power supply output. :)
[17:08:32] <Wolf_Mill> each is run to the driver power in :P least I didnt just hook them all to the psu
[17:09:04] <enleth> So... you can measure the voltage drop on the wires?
[17:09:22] <Wolf_Mill> I havent seen the amp draw go over 1.2A yet lol
[17:09:39] <furrywolf> enleth: exactly. :)
[17:09:59] <Wolf_Mill> naa, I wasnt thinking when I drew it out, made 3 holes so, 3 volt meters it was
[17:10:08] <furrywolf> I'm not sure what mine draws, since I haven't measured it. not much, since the bridge rectifier stays reasonably cool even with no heatsinking...
[17:11:38] <Wolf_Mill> I about shit earlier, the code I was running has a 2mm DOC w/ 3/8 endmill on this little pos mill, was expecting bad times, cut fine
[17:11:41] <furrywolf> then again, I haven't ran any acceleration-demanding toolpaths yet...
[17:12:18] <furrywolf> the guy I got my new mill from says it'll put a 1" roughing mill buried to the shank through a block of steel... I haven't tried it yet. :)
[17:12:50] <enleth> furrywolf: what mill is it?
[17:13:18] <furrywolf> enleth: an old brown&sharpe knee mill. only 3hp spindle. I suspect "slowly" is the answer. it is, however, a very, very rigid machine.
[17:13:45] <enleth> I can't wait to try hogging steel on mine. Not sure if 1" is a good idea, though.
[17:14:14] <Wolf_Mill> not hogging anything with my 1/5th hp thing
[17:14:39] <XXCoder> 500w spindle here, doubt it can mill anything harder than alum lol
[17:15:00] <furrywolf> 500 chinese watts is, what, 50 watts? :)
[17:15:09] <enleth> The motor on mine is 2hp
[17:15:09] <XXCoder> nah 5w
[17:15:36] <enleth> But I'm not sure whether that's the limiting factor.
[17:15:47] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bsmill01.jpg looks like that. it's bigger than it looks in the photo - 6.5ft tall.
[17:17:18] <furrywolf> tiwake: ever make your monitor work?
[17:18:56] <enleth> furrywolf: that's one weird knee mill
[17:19:18] <Wolf_Mill> I do think using a good quality endmill helps this sad little mill
[17:19:33] <enleth> Is that a rack-and-pinion knee power feed?
[17:19:53] <enleth> I mean, the motor that sticks out the side of the knee.
[17:20:19] <enleth> And a lathe-style chuck?
[17:24:04] <malcom2073> Hey Wolf_Mill
[17:24:13] <Wolf_Mill> yo
[17:25:17] <malcom2073> I took some measurements of my mill and garage
[17:25:26] <malcom2073> ibeams are at 85 inches, mill is 84 fully assembled heh
[17:25:35] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[17:25:49] <Wolf_Mill> plenty of room
[17:26:04] <malcom2073> Garage door may be an issue, but I can remove the drawbar motor to gain a couple inches
[17:27:02] <enleth> malcom2073: I had 12mm of vertical clearance in the truck rented to ship my mill
[17:27:18] <malcom2073> Plenty :)
[17:27:21] <enleth> malcom2073: including the pallet, not including lifting the pallet
[17:27:40] <enleth> The truck had a welded door frame, no way to remove the top beam.
[17:28:00] <andypugh> malcom2073: Does the head rotate?
[17:28:05] <malcom2073> andypugh: nope
[17:28:09] <andypugh> Pity
[17:28:23] <furrywolf> enleth: the previous owner wanted to turn something, but didn't have a lathe handy, so he stuck a lathe chuck on the mill and a toolpost on the table... vertical lathe. :)
[17:28:27] <enleth> The spindle top cover brushed pretty hard over the beam during unloading.
[17:28:37] <furrywolf> enleth: the mill has power feed on all three axis. screws, not rack and pinion.
[17:28:40] <furrywolf> axes
[17:28:42] <malcom2073> heh
[17:28:53] <enleth> furrywolf: but Z is the knee, not the quill?
[17:29:12] <andypugh> Here is the previous owner of my mill having exactly the problem being described: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eUt4qtjjNiaG_1hRbEkFztMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:29:15] <furrywolf> it has both a knee an a quill. the knee is power, as is X and Y. 18 speeds plus rapids.
[17:29:25] <furrywolf> the quill is manual.
[17:30:06] <enleth> furrywolf: nice, I haven't begun using mine properly and I already curse the lack of knee power feed of any kind
[17:30:08] <furrywolf> my mill fit through the door of the shop it's in, but the forklift we were using to move it didn't. used pipe as rollers the rest of the way.
[17:30:16] <andypugh> furrywolf: My mill also makes a decent lathe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwoD2vZUl0
[17:30:30] <furrywolf> enleth: it is bloody HARD to crank it up by hand. that knee weighs about a ton. :)
[17:31:49] <malcom2073> So Wolf_Mill, anytime you wanna come up I'll pay fuel and feed you (and beer if neccesary) :P We can haul this thing up on top of the mill
[17:31:50] <furrywolf> annoyingly, it won't rapid the knee up. I'm not sure if it's because the knee is too stiff or because the rapid clutch is too weak.
[17:32:06] <malcom2073> If the offer is still open :)
[17:33:04] <Wolf_Mill> well, my truck took the weekend off (buddy is hauling a trailer down to fla this weekend with it)
[17:33:09] <malcom2073> Nice
[17:33:34] <enleth> furrywolf: about 600kg combined on mine, cranks surprisingly comfortably with throughout cleaning and new grease, but going from full down to full up is a bitch
[17:33:58] <andypugh> Would a cordless drill make it less painfull?
[17:34:12] <enleth> andypugh: ha ha ha no.
[17:34:37] <Wolf_Mill> corded drill, Oxtools style?
[17:34:38] <enleth> andypugh: unless you take pleasure in seeing cordless drills die a horrible death by overheating a stalled motor.
[17:35:02] <andypugh> Some sort of reduction gear on the drill?
[17:35:22] <furrywolf> I've abused cordless drills pretty well. I used my Ryobi one to start a Jeep Cherokee several times. :P
[17:35:35] <furrywolf> and I used it to use it to start my mcculloch chainsaw every time...
[17:35:40] <andypugh> I used mine to start the Ner-a-Car engine the first time.
[17:35:54] <enleth> Well, *maybe* a Makita cordless impact wrench I have would do it and not die, I have to try it.
[17:36:03] <enleth> But that would be exceptionally loud.
[17:36:15] <furrywolf> that chainsaw was always a total bitch to start, but 30 seconds of spinning it with a drill was a lot easier than 30 minutes of trying to dislocate your shoulder. :P
[17:36:17] <furrywolf> 80cc engine...
[17:37:11] <enleth> Under load, it engages the radial impact mechanism which makes a LOT of noise.
[17:37:14] <furrywolf> for starting the jeep cherokee, I'd use a socket on the alternator, not the crank. gave an extra 3:1 reduction, and the alternator was easy to get to, while the crank pulley nut wasn't.
[17:37:14] <andypugh> Well, my big servo now has a speaker socket...
[17:37:35] <furrywolf> don't mention speaker sockets or renesis will start opining on them. :P
[17:38:09] * ganzuul has tool envy
[17:38:32] <Wolf_Mill> so how big of a mess does misting systems make? I ordered a noga mini-cool last night
[17:38:38] * furrywolf does too, as just about everyone else in here has fancier tools
[17:38:56] <furrywolf> Wolf_Mill: Zee is the expert on that, and on reducing the mess.
[17:39:22] <enleth> Anyway, there is just about enough room in the knee to mount a pulley on the knee lifting screw and install a smallish motor to the side.
[17:39:33] <furrywolf> I'm planning on a noga mini-cool for my shoptask too, but haven't ordered it yet. my B&S has flood with a big pump.
[17:39:49] <andypugh> I can’t quite bring myself to press the button on the $700 Mesa order. Just in case I change my mind about something
[17:40:01] <ganzuul> On the bright side, I'll be able to do lathe work in my underwear, since the lathe I ordered fits in my closet.
[17:40:15] <furrywolf> I'm ready to place a $200 mesa order, but I think pcw is still having minion shortages.
[17:40:17] <enleth> Or better, extend the knee crank shaft over the end of the knee screw and mount a geared motor there.
[17:40:21] <furrywolf> (part still shows as out of stock)
[17:40:35] <XXCoder> mesa
[17:40:56] <furrywolf> enleth: for doing things really cheaply, windshield wiper motors have a surprising amount of torque. :)
[17:41:06] <andypugh> Mine all seem to be in stock. What are you wanting that is out of stock?
[17:41:19] <JT-Shop> my first workshop was a 2' x 2' closet
[17:41:20] <enleth> Oh, before I forget, one more interesting thing: https://owncloud.hackerspace.pl/index.php/s/YxLzOP8Go3ar6sb - the service manual for Bridgeport Series 1 MDI
[17:41:30] <JT-Shop> I was thinner back then lol
[17:41:36] <enleth> I don't think it's ever been put on the internet before
[17:41:49] <furrywolf> andypugh: 7i76e
[17:42:24] <enleth> furrywolf: good idea. The 24V truck kind has quite a pull.
[17:42:36] <enleth> And they're pretty compact.
[17:43:34] <andypugh> furrywolf: 7i80 + 7i76 not tempting?
[17:43:45] <furrywolf> if you get a subaru one, it even has backlash adjustment, although that's not very useful unless you're reversing it cnc. :)
[17:43:56] <ganzuul> enleth: Really nice scan
[17:44:14] <andypugh> furrywolf: 7i76e is a pretty nice board for the price
[17:44:25] <furrywolf> I'm building a very small electronics box. I don't need to use two boards and a cable to do what I can do with one board.
[17:44:52] <Jymmm> s/board/rock/
[17:45:00] <andypugh> Not relevant, but have you seen the Ether-ParallelPorts?
[17:45:02] <enleth> ganzuul: I printed page 55 at a full B2 poster size and put it up on the wall
[17:45:31] <tiwake> furrywolf: not yet... I swapped screens with a different machine though, and it works fine. I just need to find a video converter from RGB to VGA
[17:45:51] <andypugh> (7i92) looks like a good way to keep a P-port system going.
[17:46:00] <furrywolf> my designjet will do 25x39" prints (the paper I have)... but I don't have anything I want to print that size.
[17:46:08] <Jymmm> RGBHV == VGA
[17:46:31] <furrywolf> yes, I'm thinking of a 7i92 to un-flashcut my sherline. but, going to wait to see how it works with my shoptask first.
[17:46:49] * furrywolf wonders what Jymmm is talking about
[17:47:06] <furrywolf> rock?
[17:47:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: (stoneage pun is all)
[17:47:21] * JT-Shop tries to remember where he carefully stashed the pocket hole thingy
[17:47:22] <furrywolf> tiwake: if you have square sync signals, it might well be VGA.
[17:47:31] <tiwake> Jymmm: well not equal enough... I tried mapping the pins over to a standard VGA screen that I have and it complained about it being out of range
[17:47:47] <Jymmm> tiwake: to a CRT or LCD ?
[17:47:48] <furrywolf> tiwake: did you desolder that transistor? how did it test?
[17:47:52] <tiwake> LCD
[17:48:02] <tiwake> furrywolf: that transistor was fine
[17:48:04] <Jymmm> tiwake: Including the H and V sync ?
[17:48:16] <tiwake> Jymmm: yeah
[17:48:18] <furrywolf> well, start looking for other things that can blow fuses. :)
[17:48:31] <Jymmm> crowbars blow fuses =)
[17:48:42] <furrywolf> fine, as in, nothing measured 0 ohms in any of the three ways you can measure, and everything else looked like a proper transistor should?
[17:48:55] <tiwake> furrywolf: yeah, I looked at it closer with another guy and it is probably a large power regulator that nobody makes anymore
[17:49:43] <tiwake> correct... the reason why it measures low resistance is from an inductor that jumps those two leads from the same trace elsewhere on the board
[17:49:53] <furrywolf> that should be easy to source a non-original replacement, even if it takes wiring it up with leads and mounting it inside the box. :)
[17:50:11] <ganzuul> Hex stock is made at crowbar farms.
[17:50:15] * ganzuul knows stuff
[17:50:41] <tiwake> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-MDA-CGA-EGA-to-VGA-CNC-Video-Converter-/181611937607?hash=item2a48ea3f47
[17:51:03] <tiwake> something like that is what I need I think
[17:51:08] * furrywolf has fixed more than a few things by wiring up some component not entirely unlike the original and screwing it to the side of the box with leads back to the pcb where the original part went
[17:53:01] <XXCoder> whoa that is weird. I was just randomly checking for yellow led screen on ebay when I found this http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Light-Digital-LED-Touch-Screen-Sports-Silicone-Bracelet-Wrist-Watch-/321804618590?var=510728842844&hash=item4aed0ccb5e
[17:53:12] <XXCoder> so.. yellow.. lol
[17:54:07] <furrywolf> lol
[17:54:25] <XXCoder> know whats weird? 23 buys in 24 hours.
[17:54:27] <furrywolf> I used to have a casio terrorist watch with an elastic band... loved it. :P
[17:54:54] <XXCoder> yterrorist watch?
[17:55:07] <tiwake> so I'm going to see if I can find a video converter like that without the casing or w/e, and try to find a 4:3 ratio 8" or 9" screen
[17:55:27] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W
[17:55:50] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_watch actually
[17:56:40] <furrywolf> and, no, I didn't create that redirect. lol
[17:56:40] <XXCoder> reading
[17:56:45] <XXCoder> lol
[17:57:01] <renesis> haha i had like 4 or 5 of those as a kid
[17:57:10] <renesis> yellow one was the best
[17:57:20] <furrywolf> "Briefing documents used to train staff in assessing the threat level of new detainees advise that possession of the F-91W – available online for as little as £4 – suggests the wearer has been trained in bomb making by al-Qaeda in Afghanistan."
[17:57:38] <XXCoder> renesis: my link? interesting. never ever saw one of those till today
[17:58:01] <renesis> http://images.esellerpro.com/2295/I/101/39/F-91WC-9AEF_1.jpg
[17:59:04] <furrywolf> 4 or 5 terrorist watches? shouldn't you be being waterboarded right now?
[17:59:56] <renesis> pretty sure almost everyone my age, same experience
[18:00:10] <furrywolf> bbl, to forestall government waterboarding, time to go mail my taxes.
[18:02:01] <malcom2073> Oh yeah I need todo that soon too
[18:02:12] <furrywolf> like now or monday... :P
[18:02:21] <XXCoder> isnt taxes due all way later to april?
[18:02:24] <malcom2073> yeah I'll do it monday, post already came today heh
[18:02:37] <furrywolf> XXCoder: when you have your own business, you pay quarterly.
[18:02:44] <XXCoder> ahh
[18:02:48] <malcom2073> As opposed to paying every paycheck
[18:03:07] <furrywolf> I pay payroll taxes monthly. heh.
[18:03:13] <malcom2073> I hate self employment tax
[18:03:25] <furrywolf> you mean the "let's penalize small businesses" taxes?
[18:03:29] <malcom2073> yeah that.
[18:03:39] <XXCoder> whats % on tax
[18:03:42] <furrywolf> I pay 23% worker's comp. you'd hate that too. :P
[18:03:45] <malcom2073> Mainly because I didn't know about it when I started, and it's taken 2 years to raise my rates to compenstate for it.
[18:03:51] <malcom2073> Yowch haha
[18:03:56] <malcom2073> Yeah I don't have employees
[18:04:04] <malcom2073> Thank god
[18:04:24] <malcom2073> Isn't it like 12%?
[18:04:28] <furrywolf> even though I've never had a claim. they'd go up even further if I did...
[18:04:50] <XXCoder> good to know when I start business
[18:05:05] <furrywolf> worker's comp is based on a job classiciation system, where they assign some rate based upon some figuring of supposed risk.
[18:05:09] <furrywolf> office workers are like 2%.
[18:05:22] <malcom2073> Sorry, I mean self employment tax
[18:05:32] <XXCoder> I guess working mchines is bit high risk
[18:05:37] <furrywolf> I suspect "let's rape small businesses" is the primary factor in determining rates.
[18:05:39] <malcom2073> Yeah I don't plan on ever having employees, 1099 all the way!
[18:06:25] <ganzuul> Hmm... So boron steel could replace CrMo steel as an insert holder...?
[18:06:31] <furrywolf> bbl, bank, post office.
[18:07:14] <ganzuul> Seems like they have the same very high elastic modulus.
[18:10:01] <XXCoder> ad picture for watch. gonna love how one of em is releasing magic smoke. ;) http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HLB1Py6lFVXXXXa1XFXXq6xXFXXXd/220051187/HLB1Py6lFVXXXXa1XFXXq6xXFXXXd.jpg?size=189741&height=1680&width=700&hash=da38f4402e8301b94dea4da0c3f52090
[18:10:20] <malcom2073> lol
[18:10:24] <malcom2073> The magic blue smoke
[18:10:35] <XXCoder> just means its extra magical
[18:10:49] <malcom2073> yeah, it lets the smoke out in the commercial, and *still* has more to let out for you at home
[18:10:57] <XXCoder> yeah
[18:12:25] <malcom2073> Hmm, is there a way to get a longer shaft ona stepper? They all seem to be about a standard length, up to 25mm
[18:12:47] <XXCoder> typically, couplers
[18:13:02] <XXCoder> but not sure what you mean by longer
[18:13:05] <malcom2073> I need it longer for a pully though
[18:13:13] <malcom2073> So, I'm replacing my servos with steppers, but the servos have 50mm long shafts
[18:13:21] <malcom2073> so the mounting plate to pully end is 50mm heh
[18:13:39] <malcom2073> I could get a pully with a really long hub I guess
[18:14:07] <XXCoder> ahh
[18:15:15] <XXCoder> well weird hack would be to hard couple 25mm rod then you can use that to backlash couple with stepper
[18:15:24] <XXCoder> im sure theres better ideas.
[18:35:42] <zeeshan> :-(
[18:36:12] <XXCoder> yo the zeeshan
[18:36:18] <zeeshan> hi
[18:36:23] <ssi> :P
[18:36:26] <andypugh> malcom2073: Why would you replace servos with steppers?
[18:36:39] <XXCoder> hey social security insurance
[18:36:40] <zeeshan> andypugh: its obvious ?
[18:36:42] <zeeshan> steppers are better?
[18:36:45] <zeeshan> in every way??
[18:37:01] <andypugh> I have to admit that they are more steppy.
[18:37:21] <zeeshan> i need help with lathe selection..
[18:37:46] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/VSX1e
[18:37:48] <malcom2073> andypugh: Cost and effort
[18:37:49] <zeeshan> this is the lathe i went to see today
[18:37:56] <XXCoder> wonder if steppers could be upgraded with encoders for feedback
[18:38:08] <malcom2073> I've heard of someone doing that with linuxcnc
[18:38:14] <andypugh> malcom2073: I would expect keeping the motors you have would be cheapest.
[18:38:53] <malcom2073> andypugh: Oddly enough, not so. I could spend $230 on a mesa set up(which is out of stock fwiw), or spend $230 on some steppers and run some drivers I already have. Plus I have no idea if my servo drivers are any good
[18:38:57] <andypugh> zeeshan: Someone else has a Standard Modern. Is it Pete?
[18:39:11] <zeeshan> standard modern baxter lathe is around 21" of z travel, manual tail stock, 2.25" spindle bore, 3000 rpm spindle 10hp, 200ipm rapids. I really dislike the round 2" ground bars for the Z way. internet says this lathe has a common issue with Z axis binding
[18:39:19] <zeeshan> his isn't a slant, his is a beefy machine
[18:39:22] <zeeshan> this thing is a bit of a pos
[18:39:29] <zeeshan> it has hydraulic chuck..
[18:39:48] <zeeshan> status of lathe is "in working condition" owner will power it up if im interested
[18:39:55] <zeeshan> lathe #2: http://imgur.com/a/Kes79
[18:40:03] <zeeshan> this is in every way better than the standard modern baxter
[18:40:16] <zeeshan> with the exception of spindle bore, it has a 1.63" spindle bore..
[18:40:17] <zeeshan> :(
[18:40:43] <zeeshan> and also the x ball screw is slightly messed in the sense that the balls jumped or something.
[18:41:00] <andypugh> How much long bar work do you do?
[18:41:06] <zeeshan> a lot
[18:41:19] <zeeshan> i certainly notice not being able to push 2.25" through the bore
[18:41:34] <andypugh> Yeah, that’s one bad thing about my Holbrook.
[18:41:36] <XXCoder> lol chuck holding a chuck
[18:41:44] <XXCoder> "yo I heard...." :P
[18:41:58] <zeeshan> XXCoder: they do it for a reasoin
[18:42:04] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I know
[18:42:07] <XXCoder> just was kidding
[18:42:10] <zeeshan> tell me why
[18:42:12] <zeeshan> if u know!
[18:42:19] <XXCoder> smaller diameter hold
[18:42:27] <zeeshan> close, but not correct
[18:42:28] <XXCoder> more precise I gues
[18:42:35] <andypugh> Well, that is one reason.
[18:42:40] <zeeshan> hydraulic chucks can only open .125"
[18:42:51] <zeeshan> you usually machine the jaws to what you want to machine
[18:43:00] <zeeshan> ~.125"
[18:43:17] <zeeshan> you wanna be in the mid range of the chuck closing to be @ correct grip
[18:43:38] <zeeshan> so its easier to machine all your soft jaws with the ability to grab a regular chuck
[18:43:47] <zeeshan> but also your job shop parts
[18:44:04] <andypugh> zeeshan: Don’t buy the SM because the Okuma has too-small spindle bore. That’s a false dichotomy
[18:44:05] <zeeshan> i didnt know this till 3 days ago
[18:44:20] <zeeshan> you mean nakamura?
[18:44:26] <andypugh> Yeah
[18:44:29] <zeeshan> man the okuma would be perfect it has 2.25" bore etc
[18:44:34] <zeeshan> but the frigging seller screwed me
[18:44:38] <andypugh> Ah
[18:44:46] <zeeshan> they dont wanna sell it unless i buy 2 lathes from them
[18:44:47] <zeeshan> for 8000
[18:44:58] <andypugh> What’s the other one?
[18:44:59] <malcom2073> fwiw, building the adapterp lates and pulleys to run steppers on this machine does technically make it more expensive work-wise than to buy new servo drives and run a mesa
[18:45:17] <zeeshan> okuma lc30
[18:45:23] <zeeshan> the one i want is okuma act3
[18:45:45] <andypugh> Do you reckon you could retrofit the spare for profit?
[18:45:48] <zeeshan> i first of all dont have the money to blow on 2 machines i have only 5500 saved
[18:45:56] <andypugh> Ah, OK
[18:45:58] <zeeshan> and i have no place to put it
[18:46:34] <andypugh> I would say keep looking, and keep an eye on the Okuma.
[18:46:45] <zeeshan> :(
[18:46:50] <zeeshan> but my lathe goes away tomorrow
[18:46:55] <andypugh> I don’t like the SM. Can’t say why
[18:46:59] <zeeshan> me either man
[18:47:03] <zeeshan> it looks cheaply built
[18:47:09] <zeeshan> it reminds me of a tormach
[18:47:11] <zeeshan> and thats not good
[18:47:45] <zeeshan> i wonder if should just pull the trigger on the nakamura if i dont find something in 2 weeks?
[18:48:11] <andypugh> Buy a watchmakers lathe to avoid the misery of lathelessness. You need one anyway
[18:48:21] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:48:33] <malcom2073> lol
[18:48:43] <andypugh> If the spindle bore is too small, then that’s a deal breaker, I reckon.
[18:48:44] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Buy my southbend 9 :)
[18:48:50] <zeeshan> sure $2
[18:48:52] <XXCoder> zeeshan: just use your mill as lathe lol
[18:48:58] <malcom2073> + $1200 shipping?
[18:49:03] <XXCoder> lol
[18:49:07] <zeeshan> i dont got room
[18:49:16] <malcom2073> It's tiny
[18:49:39] <petefromtn> Oy
[18:49:56] <andypugh> petefromtn: Do you need an Okuma?
[18:50:11] <zeeshan> petefromtn: we got fucked man
[18:50:16] <petefromtn> Sure but I couldn't power it lol
[18:50:19] <zeeshan> i have no clue who the winner is
[18:50:21] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuD9vrQWDDI
[18:50:24] <zeeshan> and how much they bid
[18:50:40] <petefromtn> I figured as much
[18:50:55] <XXCoder> zeeshan: buy that. it can fit completely on paper sheet.
[18:50:56] <zeeshan> i have no clue how they are doing it for cheaper
[18:51:02] <petefromtn> Someone probably did it for a song
[18:51:36] <petefromtn> Would have been interesting tho
[18:51:38] <malcom2073> That looks like a 10EE
[18:52:08] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/manson/index.html
[18:52:21] <andypugh> I am not sure what they were for, but they are super-cute.
[18:52:49] <zeeshan> lol even my gf is like how cute
[18:53:27] <zeeshan> only $22
[18:53:31] <zeeshan> nicec
[18:54:44] <XXCoder> yeah
[18:54:52] <XXCoder> 1940s $22 lemme convert it
[18:55:30] <XXCoder> In 2014, the relative value of $22.00 from 1940 ranges from $294.00 to $3,710.00.
[18:55:37] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:55:58] <XXCoder> http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/
[18:56:09] <XXCoder> theres more details but 375 apparently is best answer
[18:56:47] <roycroft> andypugh: when you build your daughter a dollhouse you can attach a miniature shop to it so the boy doll can make an occasional escape
[18:57:05] <andypugh> Where would I buy a daughter from? And why?
[18:57:18] <roycroft> breeding happens
[18:57:24] <roycroft> it's a spontaneous thing sometimes
[18:57:26] <andypugh> Not to me it doesn’t.
[18:57:26] <roycroft> one never knows
[18:57:28] <XXCoder> roycroft: it'd be a shed, if you scale it to lathe
[18:57:38] <ssi> andypugh: :D
[19:00:06] <roycroft> so the second possibility is that those were made to turn the little orphan annie secret decoder rings
[19:02:12] <malcom2073> zeeshan: sell me your 7i77
[19:02:17] <zeeshan> no
[19:02:22] <malcom2073> Aww ok
[19:02:23] <zeeshan> i think i might go wit hthe nakamura lathe
[19:02:43] <andypugh> It has a pitiful spindle bore. You will regret it
[19:03:02] <zeeshan> its still biggger than my cujrrent lathe?
[19:03:03] <zeeshan> :D
[19:03:11] <zeeshan> current lathe is 1.4375
[19:03:17] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsEopVt3O8
[19:03:19] <zeeshan> and this kinda sold me
[19:03:20] <zeeshan> lol
[19:03:25] <andypugh> My current lathe is 20mm.
[19:03:37] <zeeshan> :P
[19:05:34] <zeeshan> so basically id be buying something that is much faster, much more rigid
[19:05:45] <zeeshan> hydraulic tail stock, hydraulic chuckm tool changer
[19:05:55] <zeeshan> i think itll be worth it
[19:06:00] <zeeshan> but i think that spindle bore will always bother me
[19:06:26] <zeeshan> but then again a hydraulic chuck makes a huge difference as well..
[19:06:32] <andypugh> My “New” lathe is only 1.125” bore, so not a major upgrade on the Chinese thing in that regard
[19:07:31] <zeeshan> you know another thing on the chinese lathe i hate
[19:07:33] <zeeshan> 1800 rpm max.
[19:07:40] <zeeshan> that really sucks major balls when youre doing small stuff
[19:08:27] <Wolf_Mill> weird, mine goes to 2900... (on the dial) sounds like its going to explode at 1500rpm...
[19:10:22] <malcom2073> PCW: Any chance of 7i77's being back in stock anytime soon?
[19:10:45] <andypugh> The Holbrook should be able to do 3000 (or maybe 4000, that was an option and probably the same bearings) but the VFD cries “enough”. I suspect that the three old British Motor Horses are bigger than the three new Chinese VFD horses.
[19:10:51] <Sync> 1.69" doesn't seem to be all that bad
[19:11:07] <zeeshan> its bad when you're working with 2" round stock a lot
[19:11:08] <zeeshan> :P
[19:11:13] <Sync> yes
[19:11:15] <Sync> ofc
[19:11:37] <zeeshan> i messaged the guy, prolly will see it tuesday
[19:11:45] <zeeshan> i hope hope its 240v 3ph
[19:11:51] <zeeshan> so the swap is easier
[19:12:57] <andypugh> zeeshan: Is this spindle bore big enough for you? http://www.equipmatching.com/uploads/images/11l015mjmmg.jpg
[19:13:05] <zeeshan> haha
[19:13:08] <zeeshan> thats huge
[19:13:49] <andypugh> Google “Oil Country Lathe” They often have another chuck on the back, they are designed to work on the ends of long tubes.
[19:14:31] <andypugh> You tend to not find big spindle bores with high spindle rpms, that’s just a fundamental trade-off.
[19:14:57] <zeeshan> yes but it seems like more modern lathes offer 3"
[19:14:59] <zeeshan> standard
[19:16:10] <Sync> well andypugh it only gets very expensive as bearings get more spendy :P
[19:20:14] <petefromtn> Jeez man remind me never to eat out I wind up blowing all my Damn money LOL
[19:20:51] <malcom2073> lol
[19:21:00] <petefromtn> Need to spend it only on CNC stuff
[19:21:03] <malcom2073> Lay off the 72oz steak meals
[19:21:19] <petefromtn> LOL I had the prime rib special
[19:21:58] <petefromtn> It was really good but then I got the check and all enjoyment faded away
[19:22:19] <malcom2073> heh
[19:23:11] <petefromtn> If I stayed home and ate some Damn ramen noodles I could have probably bought a nice lathe toolholder
[19:23:39] <malcom2073> HAH
[19:23:43] <malcom2073> oops caps
[19:23:44] <PCW> malcom2073 Yes new 7I77s middle of next week
[19:24:01] <petefromtn> New 7i77s?
[19:24:27] <petefromtn> Are they even more awesome than the old ones?
[19:24:38] <malcom2073> petefromtn: yeah, they're in stock :P
[19:24:46] <petefromtn> Hehe
[19:25:44] <petefromtn> Picked up 24 feet of 1x2 6061 from knoxvegas today
[19:26:09] <petefromtn> Got some chips to make
[19:26:32] <malcom2073> nice
[19:27:41] <petefromtn> I keep trying to contact this local guy that is supposed to recycle the chips for me and all I get is his wife's voicemail and they never call me back sigh
[19:30:28] <zeeshan> petefromtn: hey man
[19:30:40] <petefromtn> Yo
[19:30:55] <zeeshan> we need to find these big jobs!!!
[19:31:06] <petefromtn> Indeedy do
[19:31:18] <XXCoder> petefromtn: ramen and once a week some orange or something. banana is better
[19:31:22] <petefromtn> It would have been nice
[19:31:35] <petefromtn> LOL.
[19:31:50] <XXCoder> avoid scurvy lol
[19:31:51] <zeeshan> it'll happen one day
[19:31:59] <petefromtn> I am driving home now be back in ten minutes or so.
[19:32:18] <zeeshan> holy shit the nakamura has a built in parts catcher
[19:32:18] <zeeshan> haha
[19:32:30] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:32:54] <zeeshan> https://youtu.be/MMGOzSLskhQ?t=60
[19:32:57] <zeeshan> i think thats a part catcher
[19:33:02] <zeeshan> right under the chuck
[19:33:20] <zeeshan> or is a chip catcher?
[19:33:21] <zeeshan> :P
[19:33:28] <Sync> both
[19:33:37] <zeeshan> never seen that before
[19:33:46] <zeeshan> chip stuff is just a conveyor
[19:34:22] <malcom2073> PArt catcher normally would move to catch the part, them move away so as to not catch chips
[19:34:25] <malcom2073> yeah?
[19:34:25] <Sync> I guess it is a parts chute
[19:36:17] <Sync> get the haas he sells, live tooling will make your life better
[19:48:17] <PetefromTn_> OK back again :<)
[19:53:23] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan hey man if you get a lead on anything else like that gimme a shout man!
[19:58:45] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2015-09-lexus-hoverboard-scientist.html
[19:59:25] <PetefromTn_> while that thing is really cool somehow it just does not qualify to me as a true hoverboard
[20:00:36] <ganzuul> This was interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangalloy
[20:00:38] <CaptHindsight> yeah, not real until it works on ordinary pavement
[20:01:06] <PetefromTn_> agreed...
[20:01:28] <PetefromTn_> they are getting close to making a REAL Star Wars Hoverbike tho..
[20:01:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150910-fastraxs-3d-printing-attachment-transforms-cnc-mills-into-3d-printers-now-on-kickstarter.html
[20:01:50] <PetefromTn_> but it will assuredly be WAY outta anyone's realistic price range
[20:02:23] <CaptHindsight> maybe if your spindle is hopelessly broken and you don't expect to fix it
[20:02:47] <PetefromTn_> I like that but when I suggested something like that awhile back all the 3D printer junkies said the CNC mill was WAY too slow to make it worthwhile
[20:04:24] <PetefromTn_> I'd try one for $200
[20:06:05] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: nothing major so far
[20:06:08] <zeeshan> just small jobs here and there
[20:06:14] <zeeshan> 1-5 pieces
[20:06:18] <PetefromTn_> I know
[20:06:22] <zeeshan> need a 5000 piece
[20:06:23] <PetefromTn_> that is what I mostly get hehe
[20:06:23] <zeeshan> !1
[20:07:14] <PetefromTn_> its hard to find good paying jobs like that
[20:07:30] <PetefromTn_> wanna see my new prototype??
[20:08:57] <zeeshan> hell yes
[20:09:22] <PetefromTn_> ok hang on
[20:10:12] <malcom2073> I kept hearing that from the 3d printer people, but you know what? I can print *Really* damn slow on my 3d printer and havei t turn out fine
[20:10:25] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/qi9c1RD.jpg
[20:10:36] <malcom2073> Damn that's slick looking PetefromTn_
[20:11:04] <zeeshan> Sexy!
[20:11:15] <zeeshan> but you gotta lose the steel schs
[20:11:15] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/4yrQpvz.jpg
[20:11:20] <malcom2073> You can get a hotend + temperature controller for less than $100, and boom: 3d printer out of a mill
[20:11:25] <PetefromTn_> why?
[20:11:26] <zeeshan> stainless fasterner that baby!
[20:11:28] <zeeshan> they rust
[20:11:50] <renesis> stainless hardware ftmfw
[20:11:51] <PetefromTn_> every scope riser and rail I ever had used black steel screws
[20:12:10] <PetefromTn_> but I actually do offer stainless screws
[20:12:54] <fenn> stainless SHCS are often cheaper than regular black oxide alloy
[20:12:58] <PetefromTn_> you think it looks good?
[20:13:03] <zeeshan> fenn what?
[20:13:15] <zeeshan> it looks sexy man
[20:13:32] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how do you have no burrs
[20:13:34] <zeeshan> on all those rib things
[20:13:50] <zeeshan> do you go in with a chamfer tool?
[20:13:53] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/Ge8eu6N.jpg
[20:14:11] <PetefromTn_> no way man you could not get it into the corner
[20:14:22] <PetefromTn_> actually It is mostly as machined
[20:14:38] <zeeshan> nice sharp tooling i guess :P
[20:14:39] <zeeshan> and coolant!
[20:14:50] <PetefromTn_> but I use a scotch brite pad and kinda rub the sharp off the corners before I do the brush finish on the whole thing
[20:15:01] <zeeshan> i gotta ask something
[20:15:05] <zeeshan> how do you do the massive slot
[20:15:07] <PetefromTn_> uh oh
[20:15:07] <zeeshan> on the under side
[20:15:14] <zeeshan> that looks very deep
[20:15:24] <PetefromTn_> ball endmill in steps
[20:15:39] <zeeshan> ah
[20:15:43] <zeeshan> that explains the radius
[20:15:43] <PetefromTn_> then once I reach the bottom I offset .005 each side of zero to clean up the sides a touch
[20:15:47] <zeeshan> on the inner rib
[20:16:19] <zeeshan> since i know nothing about your part
[20:16:35] <zeeshan> are you curious to know what i think itd cost to machine? :P
[20:16:45] <PetefromTn_> sure
[20:16:45] <fenn> one milllion dollars
[20:16:56] <zeeshan> around 450-500
[20:17:00] <zeeshan> including material
[20:17:09] <renesis> two million dollars
[20:17:11] <PetefromTn_> if only LOL
[20:17:20] <zeeshan> its a foot long almost right?
[20:17:33] <PetefromTn_> that one is like 9.5 inches long
[20:17:45] <PetefromTn_> material is about $7
[20:18:02] <PetefromTn_> takes about 30 minutes first side
[20:18:09] <PetefromTn_> maybe ten minutes second side
[20:18:26] <PetefromTn_> then the picatinny program takes another 20-25 minutes to cut all the slots and angles
[20:18:38] <PetefromTn_> then the bottom slot takes maybe ten more minutes
[20:18:57] <zeeshan> but then youre oferring a unique product
[20:18:59] <PetefromTn_> so total machine time is like an hour to maybe an hour and a half
[20:19:01] <zeeshan> so the price goes up 300%
[20:19:13] <PetefromTn_> it IS a unique product
[20:19:15] <zeeshan> and your r&d also accounts for 30%
[20:19:18] <PetefromTn_> there is not another one like it
[20:19:28] <zeeshan> so my estimate isn't far off!! :P
[20:19:29] <PetefromTn_> I sell these for $170 plus shipping
[20:19:36] <Sync> cheap
[20:19:39] <zeeshan> too cheap
[20:19:48] <Sync> the machining time is about that price
[20:20:00] <zeeshan> Sync: he just showed you it's not that much :P
[20:20:00] <Sync> without profit
[20:20:09] <PetefromTn_> honestly I think so too but the rest of the industry makes things for firearms similar for real cheap so I have to be realistic
[20:20:10] <zeeshan> but i think you can easily get double that
[20:20:13] <zeeshan> but idont know the market..
[20:20:24] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: but you're offering unique products
[20:20:28] <zeeshan> not mass produced stuff
[20:20:33] <zeeshan> your competition is the unique market
[20:20:34] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[20:20:43] <zeeshan> its like this guys e-cigs
[20:20:50] <PetefromTn_> if I thought I could get double for them believe me I would
[20:20:57] <zeeshan> people that want mass produced stuff can buy it for 50-60 for a decelt e-cig
[20:21:05] <zeeshan> decent
[20:21:05] <PetefromTn_> honestly those damn ecigs look quite complex
[20:21:22] <zeeshan> tell that to the guy whos paying me for them
[20:21:25] <zeeshan> he thinks theyre easy
[20:21:26] <zeeshan> lol
[20:21:29] <PetefromTn_> when you started making them I looked into it
[20:21:35] <Sync> zeeshan needs a 5 spindle machine
[20:21:42] <PetefromTn_> lots of 3d milling time
[20:21:50] <renesis> the only ones that are complex are the constant power ones
[20:21:51] <zeeshan> yea man
[20:21:56] <renesis> because they current sense
[20:22:05] <fenn> 1920's technology
[20:22:08] <PetefromTn_> I would have to model something that could be cut more simply yet look cool
[20:22:08] <XXCoder> I find it slightly annoying that linux dont consider mouse clicks as activity
[20:22:11] <renesis> most of them are just PWM
[20:22:30] <XXCoder> so when im reading and using wheel and clicking screensaver comes up lol
[20:22:35] <zeeshan> i dont know how much this guy is lieing to me
[20:22:41] <zeeshan> but apparently he's already sold the 40 ..
[20:22:47] <zeeshan> after posting the picture of the first prototype done
[20:22:49] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[20:22:51] <zeeshan> in 1 day he sold 40
[20:22:53] <zeeshan> i dont believe him
[20:22:56] <renesis> haha, and they have a fucked up voltage scale called RMS mode, to compensate for the voltage error of DMM reading the pwm
[20:23:00] <zeeshan> he's the same guy who said it costs $150 per wood piece..
[20:23:05] <PetefromTn_> I don't doubt it
[20:23:05] <renesis> its kind of silly
[20:23:20] <PetefromTn_> people love crazy low production cool shit
[20:23:29] <jdh> drug addicts do
[20:23:35] <renesis> like, RMS to the ecig community doesnt mean average of absolute powers
[20:23:39] <PetefromTn_> lots of wealthy guys chomp at the bit to buy stuff like that
[20:23:39] <Praesmeodymium> those e cig guys are amazing, and I totally buty that he scould sell 40, I mean the guys that dont mix there own juice can spend 30$ a day on vape fluid
[20:24:08] <renesis> yeah thats nuts
[20:24:19] <XXCoder> if I recall there was research on vape and it apparently makes more fine paracles which affect lungs worse
[20:24:31] <renesis> i get unflavored and spend $7 that will last me couple months
[20:24:35] <Praesmeodymium> cloud chasing is a competitive sport, who can make the biggest plume without blowing a battery up
[20:24:36] <XXCoder> but still too short term, true conclusions is still being figured
[20:24:43] <zeeshan> XXCoder: can you stop hurting my customer's market?
[20:24:52] <zeeshan> let me finish selling these first
[20:25:00] <XXCoder> lol zeeshan sorry
[20:25:02] <zeeshan> =D
[20:25:06] <Wolf_Mill> ^ testing done by big cig companys
[20:25:15] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: actually - yes - it may make you cough - but basically it's really, really less long term harmful.
[20:25:22] <malcom2073> All the testing done to show it was safe, use such tiny batteries heh
[20:25:26] <fenn> sports cars and guns are bad for your health too
[20:25:27] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nhs.uk/news/2015/08August/Pages/E-cigarettes-95-per-cent-less-harmful-than-smoking-says-report.aspx
[20:25:29] <renesis> xxcoder: i heard opposite like the droplets arent as small as smoke so you dont actually absorb the nicotine as if inhaled
[20:25:43] <SpeedEvil> ^review o public health england
[20:25:43] <Sync> zeeshan: you obviously need a copy mill too :P
[20:25:45] <renesis> its more through saliva and your throat
[20:25:54] <SpeedEvil> (UK government health body)
[20:25:56] <XXCoder> hmm interesting
[20:26:04] <renesis> but with flavors, anything goes none of that shit is tested for inhalation
[20:26:06] <XXCoder> I do belive uk research a little bit more
[20:26:17] <Praesmeodymium> right sub ohm vaping hasnt really been tested and PG an VG break down to all kinds of stuff at extreme temps
[20:26:20] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: Also tested in use cases that most people don't use
[20:26:24] <jdh> why not just get a nic patch or needle?
[20:26:31] <renesis> if youre a smoker and you switch to ecigs, you can tell its not as bad
[20:26:33] <zeeshan> jdh: you too
[20:26:35] <zeeshan> you need to stop
[20:26:36] <renesis> cigs make me feel sick now
[20:26:36] <zeeshan> until im done
[20:26:48] <renesis> jdh: habit thing
[20:26:52] <SpeedEvil> may e-cigs be 100% healthy - perhaps not.
[20:26:54] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[20:26:57] <zeeshan> jdh: smokers like to suck on stuff
[20:26:57] <jdh> z: don't worry about it. addicts have no control
[20:27:03] <zeeshan> :)
[20:27:03] <SpeedEvil> Are they about eleven orders of magnitude safer - yes.
[20:27:15] <renesis> hes not telling to addicts in general
[20:27:17] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: Again, not tested within the parameters of normal use
[20:27:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan: get your lumps done?
[20:27:24] <jdh> addicts with money?
[20:27:29] <renesis> he needs to sell to the rich fuck addicts
[20:27:31] <PetefromTn_> venus demilo's!!!!
[20:27:33] <renesis> yes
[20:28:01] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: They were using consumer e-cigs, admittedly.
[20:28:07] <furrywolf> how'd you route the wires?
[20:28:19] <XXCoder> my views on drugs is simple. use whatever you want
[20:28:22] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: so they turned out well?
[20:28:26] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: Yep
[20:28:28] <XXCoder> just ban truly dangerous stuff
[20:28:29] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: do you have a pic of a finished one?
[20:28:37] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: he's bringing it over right now
[20:28:44] <zeeshan> he wired it up
[20:28:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/XaHQFVf.jpg
[20:28:58] <zeeshan> this the last i saw of it
[20:29:14] <renesis> that came out nice
[20:29:15] <jdh> nice wood
[20:29:17] <furrywolf> XXCoder: I disagree. Hand out the most dangerous ones by the bucket. Natural selection.
[20:29:19] <zeeshan> furrywolf: like this: http://i.imgur.com/Iftc8Bk.png
[20:29:26] <zeeshan> notice the slightly oblonged hole
[20:29:28] <SpeedEvil> That is what - the epoxy or whatever impregnated burr?
[20:29:44] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[20:29:51] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: what's the finish?
[20:29:53] <furrywolf> meh. I told you not to make him try filling that!
[20:29:54] <XXCoder> zeeshan: ever got that part back? and the holder out?
[20:30:07] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i am doing whats easy for me
[20:30:17] <XXCoder> damn that looks nice zeeshan
[20:30:22] <zeeshan> XXCoder: yes i made a tool to pull it out
[20:30:23] <XXCoder> guess that also answers my question
[20:30:25] <zeeshan> XXCoder: thanks man!
[20:30:31] <malcom2073> Yeah that looks really nice
[20:30:36] <PetefromTn_> it does look nice
[20:30:55] <XXCoder> isnt it usually from stump or something?
[20:30:57] <PetefromTn_> watchin' STAR WARS!!
[20:31:04] <zeeshan> which star wars
[20:31:05] <malcom2073> I hope someday I'm good enough to actually take paid jobs for stuff heh
[20:31:11] <PetefromTn_> THE STAR WARS
[20:31:25] <zeeshan> i cant wait for the new one
[20:31:31] <PetefromTn_> me too
[20:31:35] <PetefromTn_> gonna be kick ass
[20:31:47] <zeeshan> i really enjoyed the phantom menace
[20:31:49] <zeeshan> is my fav
[20:32:04] <PetefromTn_> my favorite is the Empire Strikes Back
[20:32:08] <zeeshan> liam neeson is the best!!
[20:32:28] <PetefromTn_> you mean Quai Gon Jinn!!
[20:32:29] <zeeshan> i forget in the empire strikes back
[20:32:42] <zeeshan> thats the one where darth vader goes "luke i am your FARTHER"
[20:32:46] <renesis> i only say return of the jedi because i watched empire like a billion times on VHS
[20:32:50] <zeeshan> is that the one?
[20:32:51] <furrywolf> my favorite is the one where kirk beats darth vader to save will robinson from the daleks.
[20:33:14] <jdh> I thought that was picard
[20:33:18] <PetefromTn_> Empire Strikes Back is the Ice Planet of HOTH in the beginning
[20:33:18] <renesis> i dont remember that one
[20:33:21] <malcom2073> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a1/6a/30/a16a30f7be6688577654d7e2ef738b9f.jpg
[20:33:23] <enleth> aw jeez, there are people who like episode -1 here.
[20:34:02] <PetefromTn_> I like em all ;)
[20:34:32] <fenn> i like the original THX-1138
[20:34:57] <Praesmeodymium> star wars was neat but I was always a little leary of the whiniest jedi in the universe, and low and behold he come by it naturally his father is also a self center whiner
[20:34:57] <renesis> i tried watching that as a kid while really high and it didnt work
[20:35:21] <renesis> or maybe it just doesnt make much sense
[20:35:46] <fenn> lucas's career went monotonically downhill, he's like benjamin button the filmmaker
[20:35:47] <PetefromTn_> I swear I must have watched every episode a thousand times by now heh
[20:36:06] <PetefromTn_> how ya figure?
[20:36:15] <renesis> the best part of the prequels was how annoyed sam jacksom seemed to be
[20:36:46] <PetefromTn_> I liked the pod races
[20:36:54] <malcom2073> He's annoyed in every movie though heh
[20:37:14] <XXCoder> "use the force", Captain picard, Doctor Who, in battle between humans and cylons
[20:37:19] <renesis> right but it didnt seem like a character, he seemed to be annoyed at being in the movie
[20:37:19] <PetefromTn_> samuel jackson is just that annoyed kinda guy.... did you ever see pulp fiction LOL
[20:37:29] <furrywolf> I've never seen the appeal of star wars. at least star trek occassionally had an intelligent plot...
[20:37:29] <renesis> <3 pulp fiction
[20:37:56] <renesis> but yeah he looked like he was having a great time filming that movie, because everyone does in tarantino movies
[20:38:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: y so negative
[20:38:26] <zeeshan> about everything
[20:38:28] <zeeshan> are you emo
[20:38:42] <fenn> u mad bro
[20:38:43] <renesis> furrywolf: star trek was some idealistic dystopian bullshit
[20:38:46] <PetefromTn_> he won't eat it he hates everything.
[20:38:49] <renesis> where they killed all the mexicans
[20:39:02] <PetefromTn_> LOVE STAR TREK!!
[20:39:03] <zeeshan> he eats
[20:39:03] <renesis> star wars is like, how real life goes down
[20:39:04] <zeeshan> but then goes
[20:39:07] <zeeshan> "damn i hate this taco"
[20:39:12] <zeeshan> :P
[20:39:28] <furrywolf> I like cheesecake more than tacos, but pete won't share. :P
[20:39:33] <PetefromTn_> NOPE
[20:39:37] <renesis> you can have both
[20:39:44] <PetefromTn_> got about half of one in the fridge now LOL
[20:39:57] <renesis> the ones from trader joes are actually pretty good
[20:40:01] <furrywolf> idealistic bullshit is better than boring pointless bullshit. :P
[20:40:15] <PetefromTn_> I love my some boring pointless bullshit
[20:40:28] <renesis> boring is how i feel about star trek =\
[20:40:31] <PetefromTn_> and I like anything idealistic too ;)
[20:40:46] <PetefromTn_> just to piss you off man
[20:41:09] <furrywolf> at one point I thought it'd be fun to write+direct a scifi series... that would be very unlike star trek. but that takes waaaaaay too much money.
[20:41:35] <jdh> it's free to wriet
[20:41:49] <PetefromTn_> heh
[20:41:55] <renesis> stick figure storyboards yo
[20:42:07] <furrywolf> how about normal people, and rather than classical music, a nice hard rock / metal soundtrack? :P
[20:42:19] <PetefromTn_> I like making stick figure flip book cartoons
[20:42:55] <furrywolf> and a strict rule that absolutely no episode may focus on interpersonal conflicts between the main cast or any character having a personal moral issue. i.e. NOT TNG.
[20:43:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah and more nice tits too
[20:43:34] <fenn> nascar, with spaceships
[20:43:37] <renesis> boobies yay
[20:43:39] <PetefromTn_> fuck nascar
[20:43:42] <renesis> wtf nascar
[20:43:46] <renesis> youre into nascar?
[20:43:57] <renesis> rly furrywolf? rly?
[20:44:00] <zeeshan> i like circles
[20:44:03] <furrywolf> there would be plenty of tits, but they'd be covered in nice thick fur. no reason to use humans for a new series. :P
[20:44:03] <fenn> no, i'm just trying to imagine a scifi series with no interpersonal conflicts or moral issues
[20:44:03] <PetefromTn_> kinda like Heavy Metal
[20:44:12] <renesis> heavy metal was fuckin cool
[20:44:25] <renesis> also tank girl
[20:44:31] <PetefromTn_> Love tank girl
[20:44:34] <renesis> <3
[20:45:03] <fenn> ghost in the shell fits the constraints i guess
[20:45:06] <PetefromTn_> I love when lori petty goes " you have a really HUGE booger in your right nostril
[20:45:10] <furrywolf> fenn: ST:TOS, for example. Notice how there was only friendly bickering between the main cast, and no episodes focused on a character being idiotic because of some cultural or moral issue.
[20:45:14] <PetefromTn_> and you can use THIS finger to pick it LOL
[20:45:19] <renesis> it has hair rock soundtrack, no?
[20:45:20] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:45:21] <zeeshan> hahaha
[20:45:30] <renesis> i dont think ive watched original ghost in the shell in like 15 years
[20:45:35] <renesis> i wonder how the cg looks now =\
[20:46:06] <renesis> furrywolf: was a 90s thing
[20:46:10] <furrywolf> unlike, say, TNG, where worf does stupid things because his culture tells him to. Or the god-awful stargate atlantis, with a cast obviously assembled by comittee to create as much conflict as possible. Kinda like ST:VOY...
[20:46:29] <PetefromTn_> My wife LOVES Worf!!
[20:46:53] <renesis> hes a lovable guy
[20:46:56] <PetefromTn_> She got mad at me when I said he has a snicker forehead
[20:47:00] <zeeshan> i really loved the new star treks
[20:47:04] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: time to machine yourself a nice shiny bat'leth. zee can make the wood handle for you. :P
[20:47:05] <zeeshan> chris pine killed it
[20:47:14] <PetefromTn_> HELL YEAH
[20:47:23] <zeeshan> i honestly didnt like the old ones
[20:47:23] <PetefromTn_> the new Star Trek movies are awesome
[20:47:33] <zeeshan> i loved the bar fight
[20:47:40] <zeeshan> and even the start of the movie when he's running from the cops
[20:47:57] <zeeshan> and the epic space fight scene
[20:48:02] <PetefromTn_> I have actually considered making a Bat'leth
[20:48:13] <PetefromTn_> but I only have 20x20x20 LOL
[20:48:23] <PetefromTn_> so it would be a BABY bat'leth
[20:48:28] <furrywolf> it's symmetrical. machine half and flip it over. :P
[20:48:50] <PetefromTn_> I could machine it in two parts and tig weld it together
[20:49:09] <PetefromTn_> I would want to make it a "SWORD OF KAELESS"
[20:49:15] <furrywolf> or machine it as one, like I just said. :P
[20:49:40] <PetefromTn_> its funny you mention making one
[20:49:51] <PetefromTn_> I got a call from a freind from church the other day
[20:50:10] <PetefromTn_> he apparently has some website he runs that sells survivalist stuff
[20:50:36] <PetefromTn_> he wanted to know if I could machine a bigass bowie knife model for them that someone else they contracted with screwed up.
[20:50:41] <jdh> church of the eternal prepper
[20:50:47] <PetefromTn_> heh
[20:50:59] <furrywolf> speaking of things covered in fur... I went to the local fabric shop today to get some heavy canvas to add a divider to a toolbag... where I was there I looked at the faux furs... they have a REALLY nice wolf faux fur there now... I was very tempted to become an extrafurrywolf. decided it was too much work. lol
[20:51:01] <PetefromTn_> church of the eternal zombie killers
[20:51:28] <PetefromTn_> too much....too much.....
[20:51:28] <zeeshan> brb
[20:52:03] <furrywolf> making knives is a specialist field, but if you know how to do it, there's good money in it.
[20:52:31] <PetefromTn_> now ya see that if I did not blow a ton of cash eating at some fancy restaurant tonight I could take FULL advantage of the Harbor Freight emailer I just got LOL
[20:52:42] <furrywolf> lol
[20:52:51] <furrywolf> I ate a sandwich from safeway. not exactly fine dining.
[20:52:54] <PetefromTn_> damn my digestive system :D
[20:52:58] <XXCoder> yummy
[20:53:22] <jdh> fancy in murvile?
[20:53:25] <PetefromTn_> that Prime Rib with Aus Jus and loaded baked potato was yummy tho...
[20:53:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah we got fancy here too ya know
[20:54:02] <PetefromTn_> it's the rest of Tennessee that is backwards assed
[20:54:05] <jdh> heh
[20:54:11] <jdh> is the mouse's ear still there?
[20:54:24] <PetefromTn_> speaking of which when is JT coming here?
[20:54:35] <furrywolf> I've never seen Tank Girl... not much of a movie fan. didn't it get absolutely horrid reviews when it came out?
[20:54:36] <PetefromTn_> ROFL NO man that shithouse closed down years ago LOL
[20:54:47] <PetefromTn_> LOL probably..
[20:54:55] <PetefromTn_> it was not exactly a classic
[20:55:01] <PetefromTn_> but I enjoyed it
[20:55:49] * furrywolf tries to remember the name of the movie debbie harris did the soundtrack for
[20:56:09] <PetefromTn_> but hey I like Star Wars and Star Trek and you hate both so you know what that tells ya
[20:56:19] <furrywolf> debbie harry
[20:56:21] <PetefromTn_> you mean Debbie Harrey
[20:56:25] <jdh> that you are both half wrong
[20:56:29] <furrywolf> yeah, brain slip. :P
[20:56:49] <PetefromTn_> My wife always gets told she looks like her
[20:56:50] <renesis> shes not so sexy anymore
[20:56:59] <furrywolf> I was just shopping on harris st earlier today. lol
[20:57:23] <furrywolf> renesis: try Joan Jett then.
[20:57:37] <renesis> i bet she held up better
[20:57:44] * furrywolf doesn't get why the first thing people think of is how sexy other people are, rather than their music or anything useful
[20:59:12] <renesis> http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9155729.ece/alternates/w620/web-nme-1-getty.jpg
[20:59:15] <renesis> nice
[21:00:01] <renesis> http://www.siriusxm.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Joan-Jett-SXM.jpg
[21:00:09] <renesis> shes almost sexier now
[21:00:41] <renesis> prob because she doesnt seem as likely to beat me up
[21:01:17] <PetefromTn_> I like Joan Jett too
[21:01:30] <furrywolf> no, she's much more likely to chain you up, whip you, then get out a strapon. :P
[21:02:00] <renesis> this is like a consistent theme with you
[21:02:06] <PetefromTn_> I know...
[21:02:09] <PetefromTn_> scary
[21:03:03] <furrywolf> nah. I'm not into chains nor whips.
[21:03:13] <furrywolf> rumor, however, is jett very much is.
[21:03:16] <renesis> musically, i actually listen to blondie, dont really listen to joan jett
[21:03:45] <renesis> disco punk, yo!
[21:04:01] <renesis> the clash too kinda, heh
[21:04:21] <furrywolf> eww
[21:04:30] <renesis> eww at the clash?
[21:04:39] <renesis> rly?
[21:05:05] <renesis> into nascar, dont like the class
[21:05:24] * furrywolf doesn't like nascar
[21:05:25] <furrywolf> lol
[21:05:38] <renesis> thats good
[21:07:20] <Praesmeodymium> its amazing that the managed to make turning left into a competitive team sport
[21:07:38] <jdh> pit crews are impressive
[21:07:42] <renesis> its booze smuggling
[21:07:48] <jdh> the racing is pretty blah
[21:07:49] <renesis> driving a highway forever
[21:08:19] * furrywolf thought the point of nascar was booze consuming
[21:08:27] <renesis> and yeah if you like driver on driver racing, dont give a shit about the cars, nascar is cool i guess
[21:08:33] <renesis> passing happens constantly
[21:08:57] <Praesmeodymium> shak and bake!
[21:10:15] <renesis> jdh: F1 pits stops now the refueling is banned is nuts
[21:10:23] <renesis> good stop is under 2.5 sec
[21:10:37] <renesis> 3.5 sec and its like, bunch of slackers
[21:11:25] <renesis> like an order of magnitude less passing tho, racing is about not fucking up and pit strategy
[21:11:27] <furrywolf> banning refueling?
[21:11:29] <furrywolf> lol
[21:12:05] <renesis> yeah because bit dangerous, also crazy expensive to ship the rigs all over the world, also they made fuel conservation part of the formula
[21:12:34] <renesis> if they do fully enclosed cockpits, i think they should bring it back
[21:13:26] <PetefromTn_> the danger and technology and speed/cornering is what Makes F1 interesting
[21:14:04] <renesis> tho i guess they figured out it actually makes the race more dependent on pit strategy algorithms and less competitive, instead of mixing things up randomly
[21:14:12] <furrywolf> I want to see a race that encourages vehicle innovation.
[21:14:19] <furrywolf> rather than banning every new idea anyone has
[21:14:28] <renesis> petefromtn_: yeah its weird because right now theyre going into a new era of safety and a new era of speed
[21:14:34] <furrywolf> I don't give a fuck about pit strategy. lol
[21:14:42] <renesis> there is revolt against the turbo hybrid v6s
[21:14:49] <renesis> and the aero restrictions
[21:15:20] <renesis> and generally how pussy the cars look, so 2017 goes back to wider fatter rears, lower wider aero, bigger ground effect diffusers
[21:15:38] <renesis> furrywolf: what happens is money wins
[21:15:41] <PetefromTn_> I like the 70's cars.... they were monsters
[21:15:50] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah like solar car racing
[21:15:56] <renesis> and one team dominates, which kills viewing of the sport, which kills the series
[21:16:01] <XXCoder> it needs a LOT o innovation
[21:16:06] <renesis> can am was unlimited, porsche 917-30 killed it
[21:16:25] <PetefromTn_> I like the lemans series too
[21:16:32] <XXCoder> power + generation + power source storage + weight. gonna find good balance to win race.
[21:16:33] <renesis> endurance racing is the closest to high technology unlimited development as it gets
[21:16:34] <furrywolf> I remember people tried 6x6s, anti-hovercraft (using blowers to suck cars to the ground), etc, etc... all that stuff gets banned.
[21:16:45] <renesis> yeah lemans and WEC is nuts
[21:16:52] <renesis> more innovation than F1, honestly
[21:16:58] <renesis> almost as fast
[21:17:14] <PetefromTn_> we used to go up to sebring once in awhile to watch them
[21:17:17] <renesis> heh
[21:17:40] <renesis> furrywolf: that was bernie ecclestones car, the brabham ground effects fan car
[21:17:47] <renesis> so its hard to feel sorry for it
[21:18:24] <PetefromTn_> I used to be a HUGE fan of 500GP bike racing when they were 2 strokes
[21:18:27] <renesis> anyway having legal technology banned is like the highest form of honor in racing
[21:18:31] <renesis> it makes cars into legends
[21:18:35] <furrywolf> I have no idea who that person is.
[21:18:37] <renesis> for example: mazda 787b
[21:18:44] <PetefromTn_> OOOOHhhh YEAH
[21:18:52] <PetefromTn_> that car was SICK!!
[21:18:56] <renesis> supposedly it wasnt that great in the series, but who cares, it won le mans and got rotaries banned
[21:19:20] <renesis> engine wear was supposedly crazy minimal, no idea how to regulate it so fuckit
[21:19:37] <PetefromTn_> that car sounded AMAZING
[21:19:40] <renesis> ive see it, i just get stuck staring
[21:19:46] <renesis> yeah it did
[21:19:55] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az39eqLIbyU
[21:20:21] <renesis> i think they broke it at goodwood last year?
[21:20:27] <renesis> hope its fixed
[21:20:39] * furrywolf wants a race where things like extra wheels and suction fans are encourages
[21:20:41] <furrywolf> encouraged
[21:20:47] <malcom2073> I prefer Le-Mons
[21:20:48] <renesis> it kills people
[21:20:59] <renesis> thats why ground effects were banned
[21:21:06] <PetefromTn_> 4 rotor heaven
[21:21:21] <renesis> but now theyre basically doing the ground effect skits with aero
[21:21:32] <renesis> and i guess that doesnt break away the same as the mechanical skirts
[21:22:11] <renesis> when they hit curbs it disrupts the downforce from ground effects, right when its needed most
[21:22:30] <renesis> and itd only be bad at high speed, which means people die
[21:24:03] <renesis> furrywolf: effectively the game is outsmarting the formula, finding gaps in the rules, its still a challenge and they can maintain competition like that
[21:24:23] <renesis> can-am racing was awesome but can-am racing is gone
[21:24:50] <renesis> petefromtn_: heh when it holds rpm is sounds so smooth its crazy
[21:25:04] <renesis> then its like RAAAAAAWRARWRARARRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[21:25:31] <furrywolf> I want people to find the ways to bend the rules of physics, not arbritary ones. :P
[21:25:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah man it really was an amazing machine
[21:25:43] <renesis> furrywolf: youd prob like WEC
[21:25:56] <renesis> its kind of hard to follow endurance races tho, heh
[21:26:18] <renesis> only happen every few weeks and then its like days of practice and qual session, and then 6 to 48 hours of racing
[21:28:37] <PetefromTn_> Mazda put the Zoom zoom on Mercedes and Porsche etc that day LOL
[21:28:58] <PetefromTn_> 1991
[21:29:05] <renesis> yeah long time ago
[21:30:37] <renesis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvceCjqts8U
[21:30:41] <renesis> they boomed it
[21:31:28] <furrywolf> I have a solution. replace the drivers with a few sandbags and a radio control unit. then allow any and all innovations that do not look like offensive weaponry. :)
[21:31:37] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-03gc1LPM
[21:32:00] <renesis> fuck drone racing
[21:32:15] <renesis> theyre also changing rules to make it more driver controlled
[21:32:29] <renesis> no coaching from the engineers, less automated setup
[21:32:30] <PetefromTn_> apparently that was the very first time ever that a Japanese car won the 24 hours of lemans
[21:32:37] <renesis> cool
[21:32:39] <furrywolf> I don't care about drivers. I care about designing novel vehicles. :P
[21:32:55] <renesis> new nissan was all sorts of suck at le mans =\
[21:33:01] <renesis> should have waited until it was finished
[21:33:19] <renesis> furrywolf: racing is about race drivers
[21:33:28] <renesis> part of the vehicle is the interface
[21:33:49] * furrywolf repeats same statement
[21:34:14] <renesis> no one would watch
[21:34:30] <PetefromTn_> Its more about the cars than the drivers for me honestly
[21:34:39] <PetefromTn_> or bikes
[21:34:43] <renesis> since you cant make money commercially for what would be the most expensive sport ever, your only other option is military
[21:35:08] <furrywolf> pete's agreeing with me?!
[21:35:15] <renesis> ive never been into bikes but lately paying more attention because omfg that shit is nuts
[21:35:26] <PetefromTn_> no he's not
[21:35:31] <renesis> well, im into F1, which basically means im agreeing with you
[21:35:44] <renesis> F1 is about the cars, and the teams
[21:36:08] <renesis> best cars, best crews, for the worlds top open wheel drivers
[21:36:14] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Novel vehicles? I call this one 'The grapes of wrath'
[21:36:21] <renesis> or, in current f1s, also the ones with lots and lots of sponsor money
[21:37:29] <PetefromTn_> F1 was always supposed to be the finest most state of the art cars driven by the worlds top drivers on the most scenic and challenging international tracks.
[21:37:46] <renesis> it still does
[21:37:52] <PetefromTn_> I think it honestly still does
[21:38:03] <renesis> its not as unique as it used to be
[21:38:06] <SpeedEvil> If you delimit the cars, you can't keep the drivers safe.
[21:38:14] <SpeedEvil> not remotely
[21:38:25] <PetefromTn_> it seems a little bit too sterilized to me now tho than what it could be
[21:38:27] <renesis> but like when i started watching F1 everyone talked about how F1 sucked F1 is dying fix F1
[21:39:01] <renesis> that period is regarded as a classic era now, insane V10 shit, even with grooved tires still the fastest circuit cars ever
[21:39:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah they made some literal monsters years ago..
[21:39:20] <renesis> speedevil: thats basically how it was in the 50s and 60s
[21:39:29] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:39:30] <renesis> and basically drivers died, thats juwt how it was
[21:39:36] <PetefromTn_> even drivers of today respect the drivers who competed in them
[21:39:37] * furrywolf introduces SpeedEvil to the concept that words can have multiple meanings. :P
[21:39:46] <SpeedEvil> meh.
[21:39:49] <renesis> if the teams complained, the FIA would be like, well you dont have to drive so fast
[21:40:14] <PetefromTn_> that's like GP bike racing
[21:40:23] <SpeedEvil> I have no problem with events where there is a small chance of death due to unavoidable factors.
[21:40:35] <PetefromTn_> back in the early days when guys like Wayne Rainey and other drove monster 2 stroke bikes
[21:40:41] <SpeedEvil> Once you start getting to events where deaths are expected,that gets a bit much IMO.
[21:40:50] <renesis> and they need to make the sport affordable, they need to fix the exposed helmet issue, and they need the cars to go faster and look lower and wider and just sexier
[21:41:07] <PetefromTn_> those were some kinda machines
[21:41:23] <renesis> everything except the exposed helmet shit is supposed to be addressed by the 2017 rules
[21:42:02] <renesis> the v10s sounded so crazy
[21:42:05] <PetefromTn_> SpeedEvil today the Isle of man TT races are some of the most dangerous in the world realistically speaking yet they are also the most respected and watched
[21:42:21] <renesis> monaco should be illegal
[21:42:27] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE MONACO
[21:42:30] <renesis> monaco gp will always be on the schedule
[21:42:35] <furrywolf> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Tyrrell_P34_2008_Silverstone_Classic.jpg now there's some innovating. it's banned. :P
[21:42:36] <renesis> i know! is my bday gp
[21:42:42] <renesis> also rubens barichello we have same bday
[21:42:45] <PetefromTn_> I love when they rip thru the tunnel
[21:42:54] <renesis> dude they do that shit almost blind
[21:43:01] <renesis> its so crazy!
[21:43:06] <PetefromTn_> it is really insane
[21:43:17] <PetefromTn_> and then HARD on the brakes LOL
[21:43:24] <renesis> like, fastest right turn ever, blinded by sun, hard braking for right angle turn
[21:43:28] <renesis> no runoff
[21:43:36] <PetefromTn_> NONE
[21:43:36] <renesis> monaco should be illegal
[21:43:42] <malcom2073> ./part #f1, /join #linuxcnc
[21:43:43] <malcom2073> :P
[21:43:44] <PetefromTn_> Oh hell no
[21:43:50] <renesis> monaco will never die
[21:44:01] <SpeedEvil> IMO it's rather different where it's primarily for brand advertising like in F1
[21:44:23] <renesis> but yeah, long nurburgring, and isle of man, same shit
[21:44:37] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[21:44:48] <furrywolf> "Williams’ 1982 car had a lift to drag ratio of 8.2 – the six-wheeler’s was 13.4."
[21:45:41] <renesis> but it was ugly
[21:45:42] <PetefromTn_> that thing was so funky
[21:45:58] <PetefromTn_> I liked watching the Players special
[21:46:19] <PetefromTn_> all of those cars do vintage racing now and it is neat to see them
[21:46:35] <renesis> 90s to early 2000s, everyone converged on what worked, sexiest cars ever
[21:46:48] <renesis> and then aero police cracked down now everything looks the same kinda dumb sometimes
[21:46:55] <renesis> duckbill mercedes wtf
[21:46:59] <renesis> penis mclaren
[21:47:08] <renesis> this years force india got a pig nose
[21:47:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't care for the nose
[21:47:48] <renesis> because they gotta pass crash tests now
[21:48:06] <renesis> so has to work for aero and actually be able to absorb impact
[21:48:39] <renesis> red bull supposedly did 14 internal crash tests and failed 4 fia crash tests before getting some shit that worked
[21:48:53] <renesis> and they wonder why everyone going bankrupt
[21:49:03] <PetefromTn_> what do you guys think is the most beautiful car body ever made?
[21:49:18] <renesis> like, anything ever?
[21:49:26] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[21:49:58] <renesis> lamborghini miura, ferrari dino 246gt, porsche 914-6
[21:50:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah pick one
[21:50:25] <renesis> no i cant i wont its unfair to them
[21:50:53] <renesis> but i think most super awesome modern sports cars go back to those 3
[21:51:03] <PetefromTn_> http://www.caranddriver.com/features/driven-singers-reimagined-911-icons-ford-bronco-eagles-jaguar-e-type-speedster-feature-eagles-jaguar-e-type-speedster-page-4
[21:51:14] <PetefromTn_> This may be the most beautiful car I ever saw
[21:51:22] <renesis> nice! i like the hatchback
[21:51:54] <PetefromTn_> that is the sexiest rear end since a young Pamela Anderson LOL
[21:51:56] <furrywolf> "They stipulated that, from 1994, F1 cars had to have between four and seven fixed gears" let's ban innovation for NO REASON AT ALL!
[21:52:06] <renesis> yeah
[21:52:29] <renesis> its funny because when they released the new etypes in the 90s, i couldnt stand the bumper
[21:52:44] <renesis> ugliest ass ever, was why i liked the aston martin version better
[21:52:57] <PetefromTn_> just look at those PIPES!!
[21:53:20] <renesis> furrywolf: they banned fully automatic shifting too
[21:53:29] <PetefromTn_> and the big wide wire wheels....and the CURVES....don't forget the CURVES!!
[21:53:30] <renesis> because theyre fucking race drivers least they can do is shift
[21:54:00] <renesis> they also banned mclarens left foot rear brake, tiny little pedal, no clutches because paddle shift
[21:54:13] <renesis> just because it was too awesome
[21:54:30] <PetefromTn_> I actually like the paddle shifters
[21:54:43] <renesis> really racing isnt so much about being totally fair as being mostly fair and having awesome races
[21:54:43] <PetefromTn_> synaptic gear changes
[21:54:51] <renesis> yeah totally
[21:55:12] <renesis> keeps their hands on the wheels, fast actuation as possible
[21:55:22] <PetefromTn_> or as Jeremy Clarkson used to call em "FLAPPY PADDLE GEARBOXES"
[21:55:25] <renesis> furrywolf: i would be into direct neural control of the cars
[21:55:33] <renesis> i think eventually theyll have to do that
[21:55:50] <renesis> direct neural interfaces and gsuits
[21:55:57] <furrywolf> nah, they'll ban it. they'll make conventional pedals mandatory, and set minimum sizes and application efforts. :P
[21:56:07] <renesis> indy will prob mandate gsuits in the next 10 years if they dont slow the cars down
[21:56:13] <renesis> theyre starting to pass out
[21:56:28] <XXCoder> furrywolf: ah no maxamium. time to abuse it
[21:57:29] <PetefromTn_> I honestly think that much like Fighter Pilots the average joe really has NO IDEA what it is like to ride in one of those cars....unless they raced high performance go karts as a kid or something
[21:57:54] <PetefromTn_> most people could not handle the cornering forces
[21:58:53] <renesis> banked ovals are weird tho
[21:59:14] <renesis> f1 is lateral, and theyre laying almost flat, and the worst is braking so intermittent
[21:59:42] <renesis> oval racing, like half the race theyre pulling gs down away from their brain
[22:00:15] <PetefromTn_> I honestly can't watch oval races they are just too damn boring
[22:00:22] <renesis> yeah not into it
[22:00:29] <renesis> is like watching a freeway
[22:05:18] <XXCoder> heard driver loses 30 pounds in that long race
[22:05:22] <XXCoder> lot of stress
[22:07:31] <renesis> the ones that lose 30 lbs were prob kind of fat to begin with
[22:07:50] <PetefromTn_> well gotta get ta bed. Gn8 folks
[22:07:56] <renesis> nite
[22:17:12] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to go to bed early tonight too... not quite yet, but I'm exhausted.
[22:17:15] * furrywolf works too hard
[22:22:45] <malcom2073> You should
[22:29:07] <furrywolf> some idiot up the road is blasting music... sleep is not possible at this time.
[22:29:29] <malcom2073> Then you're not tired enough :P
[22:31:37] <furrywolf> I don't sleep well when there's noise. even if I fall asleep, I wake back up.
[22:31:53] <furrywolf> the real problem is stupid idiots thinking everyone wants to hear their music when it's bedtime.
[22:31:59] <malcom2073> You'd not do well with kids
[22:32:02] <furrywolf> if you want to play with your stereo, do it DURING THE DAY.
[22:32:10] <furrywolf> I own lots of duct tape.
[22:32:13] * XXCoder is glad of deafness in such times.
[22:39:24] <zeeshan-mill> what would cause all the sudden to get ferrors
[22:39:28] <zeeshan-mill> for a specific axis
[22:39:32] <zeeshan-mill> it works fine under 150 ipm
[22:39:42] <zeeshan-mill> but higher than that i get ferrors, it was working fine before?
[22:40:03] <XXCoder> ferror is failure to move its supposed to?
[22:40:10] <zeeshan-mill> ea
[22:40:11] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[22:40:32] <furrywolf> sticky ways/etc, marginal motor (brushed servo?), marginal drive or power supply...
[22:40:35] <XXCoder> what possible causes?
[22:40:40] <XXCoder> furs faster heh
[22:41:24] <zeeshan-mill> hm
[22:41:43] <furrywolf> noisy encoder...
[22:41:50] <furrywolf> bad cabling...
[22:41:52] <furrywolf> gremlins...
[22:44:59] <zeeshan-mill> its definitely more noisey
[22:45:02] <zeeshan-mill> the velocity signal
[22:45:12] <zeeshan-mill> hmm
[22:47:57] <zeeshan-mill> hmm
[22:48:03] <zeeshan-mill> the noise went down when i touched the encoder cable
[22:48:06] <zeeshan-mill> interesting
[22:48:13] <malcom2073> lol
[22:48:19] <malcom2073> Faulty shield?
[22:48:22] <zeeshan-mill> yep
[22:48:24] <zeeshan-mill> problem is fixed
[22:48:25] <zeeshan-mill> wtf
[22:49:13] <XXCoder> fun
[22:49:34] <zeeshan-mill> hmmmmm
[22:49:37] <zeeshan-mill> all noise is gone now..
[22:49:37] <zeeshan-mill> wtf
[22:49:43] <zeeshan-mill> i just touched the encoder cable
[22:49:44] <zeeshan-mill> i dont get it
[22:49:45] <furrywolf> is it turned on?
[22:49:50] * furrywolf hides
[22:49:50] <zeeshan-mill> ??
[22:50:14] <furrywolf> ... the lack of noise could be because you turned it off to connect probes, and forgot to turn it back on.
[22:50:26] <zeeshan-mill> i dont have probes on there
[22:50:33] <zeeshan-mill> im looking at the velocity signal in hal scope
[22:50:53] <furrywolf> ah
[22:51:07] <furrywolf> so you might have a bad encoder shield or ground
[22:51:40] <zeeshan-mill> i wish i took a ss
[22:51:44] <zeeshan-mill> of before and after
[22:51:54] <zeeshan-mill> didnt take ss, cause ididnt think touching the wire would do anything
[22:51:55] <zeeshan-mill> hmmm
[22:52:20] <furrywolf> you scared off the gremlines. they'll return when you're not looking.
[22:52:44] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[22:52:53] <zeeshan-mill> lol
[22:59:35] <XXCoder> lol