#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-07

[00:00:00] <Tom_itx> get your terms right
[00:00:07] <Tom_itx> psi isn't per sq ft
[00:00:11] <zeeshan> hush
[00:00:25] <zeeshan> good high end stuff is around 6000
[00:00:33] <zeeshan> adding rebar makes it even stronger
[00:00:45] <zeeshan> so basically for this 10000lb lathe
[00:00:55] <zeeshan> i gotta make sure i get 2 plates 4x4
[00:00:58] <zeeshan> of steel to dfistribute the weight
[00:01:18] <Tom_itx> or pour a new floor
[00:01:21] <zeeshan> no
[00:01:22] <Tom_itx> 8" thick
[00:01:25] <Tom_itx> or more
[00:01:27] <zeeshan> plates is easier
[00:01:32] <furrywolf> or put it on your slab and assume it'll be fine.
[00:01:45] <zeeshan> the 6000lb mill is fine
[00:01:52] <zeeshan> 3000lb aint gonna hurt anythin
[00:01:56] <zeeshan> 3000-4000
[00:03:18] <furrywolf> In May 1981, during a period of record-low water levels in Florida’s limestone aquifer, a massive sinkhole opened up underneath the city’s public swimming pool, which is near the corner of Denning Drive and Fairbanks Avenue. In a single day the hole widened to 98 meters and to a depth of 27 meters, destroying an import car dealership, a public pool, and large portions of Denning Drive. In addition, the sinkhole “ate” an entire two-story home.
[00:03:25] <furrywolf> So, as I said... karst topography. :P
[00:05:21] * zeeshan doesnt evne know what karst topgraphy is
[00:05:26] * zeeshan doesnt even care
[00:05:35] * furrywolf googes for zeeshan
[00:05:36] * zeeshan is so tired that doesnt care about making sense or typing correct
[00:05:50] <furrywolf> "Karst topography is a landscape formed from the dissolution of soluble rocks such as limestone, dolomite, and gypsum. It is characterized by underground drainage systems with sinkholes, dolines, and caves."
[00:05:53] <zeeshan> NO
[00:05:57] <zeeshan> NO!!!!!!!!!!
[00:06:15] <zeeshan> so basically it dissolves
[00:06:43] <furrywolf> yes
[00:06:56] <furrywolf> and then eventually whatever's on top becomes on bottom.
[00:07:01] <zeeshan> it woulda been cooler of a tormach did that
[00:07:02] <zeeshan> oh well
[00:07:08] <zeeshan> *if
[00:08:15] <furrywolf> also wouldn't surprise me if a long-term leak in the pool contributed
[00:08:32] <furrywolf> one of the pools here was up to something like 10,000 gallons a day before they gave up.
[00:09:27] <zeeshan> furrywolf: plz wish me this okuma lathe
[00:09:35] <zeeshan> i will cry tues
[00:09:38] <zeeshan> if they dont accept deal
[00:09:39] <Tom_itx> oh poo
[00:09:45] <zeeshan> tom you too
[00:09:50] <zeeshan> i dont want to be latheless for too long
[00:09:50] <zeeshan> :{
[00:09:53] <XXCoder> 10k gal a day dang
[00:10:02] <Tom_itx> you went and sold your lathe now you're gonna cry
[00:10:08] <zeeshan> well i needed to make space
[00:10:10] <zeeshan> machines r my life
[00:10:13] <XXCoder> i'd have already stopped it and tried to fix it
[00:10:14] <zeeshan> they make me happy
[00:10:19] <Tom_itx> make money and build space
[00:10:24] <furrywolf> "The pools were closed March 11 upon orders of the North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board, after the college notified the board that the big 240,000-gallon pool was leaking 12,000 gallons of chlorinated water a day into the ground — and had, in fact, been leaking since 2005, with the volume doubling over time. "
[00:10:28] <zeeshan> 2 years mate
[00:10:32] <zeeshan> i start career job tuesday
[00:10:34] <zeeshan> very good money
[00:10:48] <Tom_itx> then you won't need the machine tools
[00:10:49] <zeeshan> i want to pay off my house first
[00:10:56] <zeeshan> i dont need them
[00:10:58] <zeeshan> but i like having them
[00:11:01] <zeeshan> it keeps me active
[00:11:09] <zeeshan> i dont want to be a retard engineer
[00:11:12] <zeeshan> i want to be a smart one
[00:11:15] <XXCoder> yeah theres always difference between need and want :)
[00:11:15] <Tom_itx> yeah i wish i could do more with em
[00:11:22] <zeeshan> sick of people that design shit
[00:11:24] <zeeshan> that is retarded
[00:11:31] <zeeshan> and give floor people shit cause they're taking too long
[00:11:40] <zeeshan> in reality it's their fault cause they designed it too complex
[00:11:47] <furrywolf> if their pool had a similar leak, over karst limestone, it could well have created its own sinkhole...
[00:12:04] <furrywolf> or it could just be the pool was heavy and built over a cave. :)
[00:12:36] <zeeshan> you guys think the okuma can be moved
[00:12:38] <zeeshan> using a fork lift?
[00:12:52] <Tom_itx> if it's big enough
[00:13:00] <XXCoder> everything is air droppable in least once :P
[00:13:22] <zeeshan> i think i need 10k lb fork lift
[00:13:38] <zeeshan> http://twentywheels.com/imgs/a/a/l/w/r/2004_hyster_h100xm_pneumatic_forklift_fork_truck_10000lb_yale_diesel_1_lgw.jpg
[00:13:40] <zeeshan> like this
[00:13:43] <Tom_itx> you're gonna make a sinkhole in your yard
[00:13:47] <Tom_itx> getting it in
[00:13:50] <zeeshan> hehe
[00:13:52] <Tom_itx> 20k
[00:14:27] <furrywolf> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-sinkhole-winter-park-20130604-story.html funny thing is, sinkholes swallowing pools is apparantly not uncommon in fl... :P
[00:14:56] <Tom_itx> it's a friggin swamp... what do you expect?
[00:15:22] <zeeshan> sinkholes are hungry
[00:15:59] <zeeshan> i think florida has the highest incidences of sink holes
[00:16:01] <zeeshan> out of any states
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> "Swimming pools are constructed with a necessary drain placed in their
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> deepest portions. The pool in Winter Park was done in like manner,
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> except the drainage installation proved inadequate. It developed an
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> enormous leak shortly after completion. It had been known for ten
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> years that the pool was losing many gallons of water each day and the
[00:17:44] <furrywolf> pool was refilled constantly. Because the pool was public property
[00:17:45] <furrywolf> and the city owned the water supply, it was probably thought cheaper
[00:17:45] <furrywolf> to fill the pool than to dig out and replace the drain assembly."
[00:17:50] <furrywolf> gah, sorry about that.
[00:17:54] <furrywolf> was supposed to be one line!
[00:18:56] <furrywolf> so, yeah... the pool was leaking and caused it, like I suspected.
[00:19:57] <zeeshan> you think too much
[00:19:59] <zeeshan> relax
[00:20:02] <zeeshan> its sunday
[00:20:02] <zeeshan> :P
[00:20:27] * furrywolf doesn't think it's sunday where zee is
[00:20:45] <zeeshan> :P
[00:22:54] <furrywolf> thinking is good. for example, I saw that picture, and thought a broken water main combined with karst topography. turns out it was a broken swimming pool main drain combined with karst topography. this means my thinking worked well. :P
[00:23:44] <zeeshan> :P
[00:23:54] <furrywolf> ohhh! I bet I just figured out what's up with the subaru. it has water in the gas tank. thinking about water suggested that.
[00:24:10] <zeeshan> drain that shit!
[00:24:12] <furrywolf> the idle jets are the lowest tap off the float bowl
[00:24:30] <furrywolf> and a little bit of water would definitely make it completely lose idle, then work again late.
[00:24:31] <furrywolf> later
[00:24:34] <XXCoder> makes sense
[00:24:43] <furrywolf> also, when I bought it, it had no gas cap.
[00:24:46] <XXCoder> drain some and use water cleaner for rest
[00:25:25] <furrywolf> this is california. regular gas will absorb about 10% water by volume... :P
[00:25:40] <XXCoder> lol
[00:25:51] <furrywolf> oxygenated gas sucks.
[00:25:52] <XXCoder> foreverrain washington its more or less same if unsealed
[00:26:48] <furrywolf> let's dump in 10-20% ethanol so your milage drops 10% while raising prices!
[00:27:06] <XXCoder> here we have up to 10%
[00:31:01] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[01:20:27] <anarchos2> my memories not so good. is a ethernet patch cable the one with the different pin out for directly connecting devices without a switch?
[01:21:22] <Jymmm> anarchos2: That would be a "crossover cable"
[01:21:36] <Jymmm> but...
[01:22:17] <Jymmm> Many new computer network interfaces have "auto mux" that will automagically do that for you using a regaular (straight) ethernet cable.
[01:23:13] <Jymmm> But a "patch cable" is typically just an regular ethernet (straight) cable
[01:23:24] <XXCoder> heh try that with rollover
[01:23:34] <Jymmm> ... just short (like 5ft long or less)
[01:23:56] * Jymmm smacks the light blue out of XXCoder
[01:24:09] <Jymmm> XXCoder: dont confuse hime with that
[01:24:20] <XXCoder> sorry lol
[01:24:30] <Jymmm> XXCoder: tis okey =)
[01:24:32] <XXCoder> wonder if that old standard is even srill in use
[01:24:40] <Jymmm> hell yes
[01:25:01] <Deejay> moin
[01:25:03] <Jymmm> the powder blue cisco console cable is forever!
[01:25:07] <Jymmm> howdy Deejay
[01:25:18] <XXCoder> hey
[01:40:03] <anarchos2> Jymmm: aye, i remember now you say it. thanks!
[01:58:56] <XXCoder> any of you ever tried http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-ship-CNC-Mach3-USB-Handwheel-4-Axis-Pulse-50-PPR-Optical-Encoder-Generator-MPG-Pendant/32228419960.html
[01:59:01] <XXCoder> or something loike that
[02:05:41] <Wolf_Mill> hmm usb :/
[02:05:48] <archivist> XXCoder, I think someone did, search the wiki and mailing list
[02:06:27] <archivist> cheaper to get a box, buttons and a handwheel, no usb then
[02:07:59] <Wolf_Mill> I kinda like my wireless usb gamepad control, but I can see where a real pendant would be nice
[02:14:21] <XXCoder> archivist: ok
[02:14:34] <XXCoder> I kinda like this better http://www.aliexpress.com/item/handwheel-pulse-generator-electronic-handwheel-hand-pulse-machining-center-carve-machine-CNC-grinding-engraving-handwheel/32324879812.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.198.PdliOG&ws_ab_test=201407_5,201444_6,201409_5
[02:15:12] <archivist> I dont like one shared handwheel
[02:15:50] <XXCoder> its common for machines
[02:16:07] <XXCoder> so far all machines I work with has one handwheel for all axes
[02:26:57] <XXCoder> wow
[02:26:58] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mach3-senior-handwheel-MPG/687390044.html
[02:27:01] <XXCoder> MUCH nicer.
[02:27:08] <XXCoder> wonder if linuxcnc supports it
[02:30:08] <archivist> cable comes out the wrong end for most normal use
[02:30:34] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Wireless-USB-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-Mach3-For-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-axis-Controller/1004816998.html
[02:30:37] <XXCoder> wireless
[02:31:26] <XXCoder> odd thing is it dont seem to have 1x 10x and 100x
[02:31:59] <XXCoder> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant site on how to use it
[02:35:43] <XXCoder> wonder what that top right loarge metal buttons for
[02:43:34] <XXCoder> the orange one looks nice but... it dont even have model #
[02:43:42] <XXCoder> means it is literally unresearchable.,
[02:43:49] <XXCoder> bleh
[02:47:03] <XXCoder> bad example http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/handwheel-pulse-generator-electronic-handwheel-hand-pulse-machining-center-carve-machine-CNC-grinding-engraving-handwheel/413580_32324879812.html
[02:47:10] <XXCoder> it does not even say or show what connector are.
[02:48:50] <XXCoder> it may be usb, it may be rollover ethernet :P
[03:03:43] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: it make work with CNC. Pore size/diameter of axle: 0 mm. " long drive" Now you send money.
[03:04:01] <XXCoder> lol
[03:05:55] <archivist> very well translated!
[03:26:35] <kengu> hoh
[04:24:50] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PP9P-p79w
[04:24:54] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij3VkK6Zthk
[04:32:31] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEvfD4C6ow
[04:33:20] <XXCoder> interesting video (first)
[04:34:31] <XXCoder> llooks like they used timing in order to do that
[04:35:25] <ganzuul> You can hear how they logarithmically ramp up the spindle speed when the tool appraoches the center.
[04:35:33] <XXCoder> no I cant lol
[04:35:46] <ganzuul> ?
[04:35:48] <XXCoder> but no worries
[04:36:08] <XXCoder> working sense is required for hearing ;)
[04:36:17] <ganzuul> oic
[04:37:05] <XXCoder> its intersting to see how it moves back and forth slightly as it moves tools in and out
[04:37:14] <XXCoder> very slight latency I guess
[04:38:13] <ganzuul> AFAIK they use a stroboscope timed to the spindle speed.
[04:38:21] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:39:10] <Wolf_Mill> I think I'm having too much fun with this first setup... http://i.imgur.com/8z9Yf3Y.jpg
[04:40:12] <XXCoder> wonder what year it was made
[04:40:15] <XXCoder> probably 80s
[04:40:39] <XXCoder> lol nice
[04:40:41] <ganzuul> That's some thick steel.
[04:41:04] <XXCoder> boring by horn lol
[04:41:08] <XXCoder> boring
[04:41:11] <XXCoder> jk
[04:42:51] <XXCoder> nice! threading on second video
[04:44:16] <ganzuul> I'd really expect the half-moon shape to cause much more vibration than what one can see.
[04:44:45] <XXCoder> it does when rough cutting middle wider section
[04:45:40] <XXCoder> phorn almost porn
[04:45:51] <ganzuul> hehe
[04:46:38] <ganzuul> That 3500kg -> 67kg landing gear video someone posted yesterday takes the prize though.
[05:45:54] <XXCoder> ganzuul: uhoh. lol http://maximumble.thebookofbiff.com/2015/08/28/1168-beauty/
[05:48:10] <ganzuul> ouch...
[05:48:21] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:07:52] <SEL> that landing gear video I posted it is a demo part, I think tha
[06:08:09] <SEL> ey exercise a good portion of the machine
[06:22:16] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Panel is lookin good
[06:27:26] <Wolf_Mill> damn rpm display was DOA
[06:39:19] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: SCREW YOU !!! http://i.imgur.com/KbD1CML.gif
[06:40:13] <XXCoder> screwing using penises
[06:40:36] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Your words, not mine =)
[06:40:50] <XXCoder> not the screwing one lol
[06:41:14] <XXCoder> well laters
[06:41:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder_away: toodles
[06:41:48] <XXCoder_away> weird
[06:41:55] <XXCoder_away> I normally dont use away thing here
[06:42:01] <XXCoder_away> but now I cant change
[06:43:23] <XXCoder> had to close all channels for it to work. weird
[06:43:41] <Jymmm> ah
[06:44:01] <XXCoder> glad I usually dont use away lol its only for specific server that I do
[06:44:48] <Jymmm> lol
[06:45:38] <Jymmm> Going to buy a used truck, gas is killing me in the SUV
[06:46:21] <XXCoder> okay going now, this time making sure NOT to use /s away command :P
[06:46:31] <Jymmm> lol
[06:46:34] <Jymmm> bu buy
[06:46:44] <Jymmm> bu bye
[06:46:45] <XXCoder> nor buy! lol
[06:46:49] <XXCoder> later
[06:50:37] <archivist> if I drop out in the next few minutes a motor has knocked the breaker out, else testing
[06:51:18] <Jymmm> archivist: May the amps be with you !!!
[06:51:58] <archivist> dug a pillar drill out from the garden motor was seized and had a water level line across the coils http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pillar+drill
[06:52:17] <Wolf_Mill> well, seems this thing http://www.ebay.com/itm/351295189962 doesnt like being unsheilded next to the stepper drivers lol
[06:52:51] <archivist> screened cables and box
[06:53:07] <Jymmm> twist the leads
[06:54:07] <archivist> make sure the data is clean, use a scope
[06:54:13] <Wolf_Mill> yeah... gonna need to rewire it so I can run the leads twisted
[06:54:51] <Wolf_Mill> oh, it gives me good rpm reading till I hit the switch that powers the steppers lol
[06:58:31] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: Then... dont do that!
[07:10:46] <archivist> run the sensor cable separately from stepper cables
[07:23:56] <Wolf_Mill> twisting and keeping it away from the drivers mostly helped
[07:52:49] <jthornton> I could have sworn there was some information about using % to wrap the program code in the manual but I can't find it...
[07:53:23] <malcom2073> There was, I remember seeing it, because I ran into that
[07:54:24] <malcom2073> jthornton: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview_es.html#_overview
[07:54:26] <malcom2073> It's in there
[07:56:07] <jthornton> I thought there was some info on what the effect of using % was
[07:56:47] <jthornton> IIRC if you use % then none of the things that a program end does happen
[08:03:38] <jthornton> hmm that is wrong as coolant turns off and spindle
[08:17:01] <jthornton> seems that only some things are changed when the closing % is reached
[08:28:49] <jthornton> well that's wrong too a simple program leaves everything on like spindle and coolant
[08:34:45] <Tom_itx> The percent "%" is used to denote the beginning and end of a program. Put one as the first line (block) and one as the last line (block) of any g-code program.
[08:35:17] <Tom_itx> They have a historical origin dating back to when nc programs were stored on punched paper tape.
[08:39:46] <Tom_itx> the M2 M30 for the most part have replaced them
[08:40:36] <Tom_itx> i still put them in my gcode files though
[08:40:53] <Tom_itx> along with N numbers
[08:41:59] <Tom_itx> O words used to designate the program name and now it's used for subroutines
[08:43:16] <Tom_itx> %
[08:43:16] <Tom_itx> O (232_68drill.txt)
[08:43:16] <Tom_itx> N1 T2 M06 ( #68 .031 TWIST DRILL )
[08:43:27] <Tom_itx> an example of an old program i had
[09:50:44] <archivist> high speed bench drill in southern england http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bench-Pillar-Drill-/221870127824
[09:52:12] <furrywolf> that's very little.
[09:55:31] <archivist> we had one at the old job, and I got one off fleabay http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pollard+high+speed
[09:56:14] <archivist> mine cam with a slightly bent spindle taper, I fixed it
[09:56:20] <archivist> cam/came
[09:56:39] <furrywolf> want to fix the spindle taper on my 1930s drillpress? :P
[09:56:43] <furrywolf> someone spun the chuck for a while.
[09:59:27] <archivist> I took the spindle assembly out and then used a small grinder and tested the fit
[09:59:55] <archivist> I spun the spindle with a small motor
[10:00:35] <furrywolf> my chuck fits tightly, just has enough runout I don't need a dial indicator to know it's unusable. heh.
[10:01:51] <archivist> I should have taken a picture of the setup to fix it
[10:01:59] <furrywolf> I sandpapered the worst of the crap off the tapers... it had galled and built up lumps... but the runout is still crap.
[10:02:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BENCH-PILLAR-DRILL-/331636796694?hash=item4d3717ed16 - talking of sandpaper and drills.
[10:02:56] <SpeedEvil> 175, and you collect - and it's 3 phase too. I think not.
[10:03:05] <SpeedEvil> Never mind the orange finish
[10:03:26] <archivist> the pillar drill prices are silly high for many on fleabay
[10:04:40] <archivist> I bet it was a lower price new
[10:04:53] <SpeedEvil> Not impossible.
[10:06:26] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to load the new subaru up with tools and go drive it somewhere far enough away to burn all the gas that's in it.
[10:08:04] <archivist> 73 pounds in 1965 in the Buck & Hickman catalogue
[10:08:22] <SpeedEvil> archivist: hah
[10:08:55] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I would almost consider it if it was in really nice condition, and the guy would actually come round with it. (it's 10mi away)
[10:09:02] <archivist> a similar filing machine to the one I just got going was 56 pounds
[10:10:38] <archivist> the 10 speed elliott was near 100 and 115 for floor
[10:10:55] <furrywolf> how do you clean up a shaft you have very limited access to? the power feed shaft on my B&S got goobered with weld splatter and whoopses from someone's incompetent repair. I tried hand filing everything smooth, but it still doesn't even pretend to slide through the gears that run on it. But I only have about a 4x5" access hole to it, and can't remove it until it fits through the gears.
[10:11:22] <SpeedEvil> dremel?
[10:11:36] <SpeedEvil> cut the access hole wider?
[10:11:44] <furrywolf> it needs to be cleaned up, not fucked up. :P
[10:11:52] <furrywolf> the access hole is the space between the ground ways on the knee.
[10:11:59] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:12:41] <SpeedEvil> can you obtain new gears?
[10:12:43] <furrywolf> things slide on the shaft, so I need to make it some approximation of clean... but I can't even fit anything in there to attempt to measure where it's hitting.
[10:12:47] <furrywolf> no
[10:12:54] <furrywolf> it'd be easier to obtain a new shaft. heh.
[10:13:28] <furrywolf> it obviously has a really bad high spot (it stops with a THUNK when I try pulling it out), but I can't see it by eye or measure it through the little opening.
[10:13:46] <SpeedEvil> In principle, 'blue' - slide gear up, observe high spot with eye or boreoscope when turning
[10:14:11] <SpeedEvil> Maybe also making a hemicylindrical guage might be useful
[10:14:44] <furrywolf> the gear is inside the knee and not visible...
[10:15:15] <SpeedEvil> can still slide the shaft along, and bang it
[10:15:31] <SpeedEvil> but that would make the guage a more useful thing I'd imagine
[10:15:43] <SpeedEvil> (guage may be the wrong term)
[10:15:50] <furrywolf> mild banging resulted in no change. didn't even jam it into the gear. it's stopping hard.
[10:16:05] <archivist> one of those cheap cameras http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-2-4-Video-Inspection-Borescope-1m-Endoscope-Pipe-10mm-Camera-Snake-Scope-/111299062279
[10:16:16] <SpeedEvil> I mean cover it with indicator, then observe where the indicator is rubbed off by contact
[10:17:01] <SpeedEvil> Or, bigger hammer.
[10:17:52] <furrywolf> I have an unobstructed view of the shaft, just it's down in a hole... and the high spot seems to be smooth enough that I can't see it easily.
[10:18:05] <furrywolf> I might just run a flap disc up and down it and stop caring about keeping the shaft pretty.
[10:18:47] <furrywolf> I can fit a die grinder down it. :)
[10:19:19] <furrywolf> all because the last person who fixed it was too lazy to remove ONE SCREW to remove the shaft before doing their incompetent welding.
[10:19:20] <archivist> can usually feel a high spot with a needle file
[10:20:38] <furrywolf> I got it feeling smooth with the file. I suspect it's now a smooth lump.
[10:20:43] <archivist> my pillar drill I dragged out the undergrowth has drilled, do not think it is worth a proper restoration
[10:21:05] <furrywolf> they were trying to weld around the shaft, and hit it with the side of the stick several times, leaving craters and blobs of weld...
[10:22:06] <furrywolf> their job would have been EASIER if they just removed the shaft first. it's ONE SCREW. it wasn't even stuck.
[10:22:19] <furrywolf> I hate fixing things where the primary problem is someone else fixed it.
[10:23:31] <archivist> this old pillar drill is a bitsa, some parts do not fit properly at all
[10:24:46] <archivist> motor does not fit the mount, the bar from column to rount table is over sized and does not clamp properly
[10:25:50] <furrywolf> it's like this subaru I'm working on... the #1 problem is someone else fixed things.
[10:26:00] <furrywolf> did I tell you why the radiator fan didn't work?
[10:27:07] <archivist> just blame someone :)
[10:28:23] <furrywolf> the wiring harness was repaired. The power to the radiator fans is a blue wire. The power (from the fuel pump controller) to the electric choke is a blue wire. The air conditioning compressor clutch is a blue wire with red stripe.
[10:29:32] <furrywolf> So, of course, the logical way to reconnect them was to have the fan power operating the electric choke, the electric choke control backfeeding the a/c relays, and the fans wired to the a/c clutch plug. even though one of them has a red tracer.
[10:29:52] <archivist> we wired a raft with red wire only, we knew we could not make a mistatke then because it was supposed to be a red wire
[10:30:20] <furrywolf> not only did they get ALL THREE wires wrong, TWO of the splices had a blue with red wired to a plain blue.
[10:30:39] <furrywolf> every single repair to the vehicle is of similar quality.
[10:31:12] <furrywolf> and, unfortunately, my B&S mill has been worked on by a very similar person.
[10:32:18] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: why were they welding on the shaft?
[10:32:55] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: a bolt under the shaft came loose, and rather than properly fixing it, they were attempting to weld the bolt to the gear it holds. but the shaft was in the way, so they had to weld around the shaft.
[10:33:10] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[10:33:25] <furrywolf> I need to remove the shaft to properly fix what's under it. If they hadn't fucked up the shaft, this is just one screw. Like they could have done!
[10:33:50] <zeeshan> shaft
[10:34:13] <furrywolf> ?
[10:34:54] <zeeshan> nothing
[10:34:55] <zeeshan> :p
[10:36:01] <zeeshan> man this compound angle hole shit
[10:36:03] <zeeshan> is really risky
[10:36:08] <zeeshan> if i have the coordinates out
[10:36:14] <zeeshan> ill drill out the side of the damn thing
[10:36:30] <Tom_itx> better be xtra careful then
[10:36:45] <furrywolf> yes. writing bad code ruins parts. :P
[10:36:46] <zeeshan> position and depth are both critical
[10:36:51] <zeeshan> nahh man its not about code
[10:36:56] <zeeshan> it's about setup
[10:36:58] <furrywolf> this is why you make one out of a chunk of 2x4 to practice on. :P
[10:37:07] <Tom_itx> put your skilz to the test
[10:37:08] <zeeshan> i might machine the 3d printed one first
[10:37:14] <zeeshan> cause if i ruin it
[10:37:15] <zeeshan> its ok
[10:37:43] <furrywolf> setup? I don't remember your renderings, but I thought it could be done while in the fixture?
[10:37:47] <zeeshan> no
[10:38:13] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i wish people who didn't know how to work on cars
[10:38:15] <zeeshan> didnt work on cars
[10:38:17] <zeeshan> i was reading above
[10:38:34] <zeeshan> like whenever i modify a harness
[10:38:40] <zeeshan> i always label the wire if it's a non standard color
[10:38:41] <Tom_itx> but how will they learn?
[10:38:52] <zeeshan> okay ill rephrase
[10:39:18] <zeeshan> i wish people who didn't know how to work on cars, read on how to do things properly before working on them -- otherwise let a pro do the work.
[10:39:19] <furrywolf> hrmm, you'll need to make more fixture, then. :)
[10:39:33] <Tom_itx> i don't know how many times i've been the one to fix it after someone else tried
[10:39:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9iywjxw.jpg
[10:39:42] <Tom_itx> it's the shittz
[10:39:47] <zeeshan> i hope you can tell what are the angled holes here..
[10:40:12] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/rQDJ4kJ.png
[10:40:13] <zeeshan> better pic
[10:40:35] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: it's terrible to fix someone else's shady wiring
[10:40:38] <furrywolf> so... how are those not just drilled while it's in the fixture after profiling?
[10:40:48] <zeeshan> they're at a compound angle
[10:40:52] <zeeshan> to the 30 degree fixture for example
[10:40:56] <zeeshan> and also the 90 degree fixture
[10:41:25] <furrywolf> oh, it's offset to the side. you can't see that in the first picture.
[10:41:39] <zeeshan> yea its hard to see
[10:41:40] <Tom_itx> you should have made the rest of the turd align with the holes so you could eliminate a step
[10:41:51] <furrywolf> first picture makes it look like it just comes out the bottom of the 30 degree stuff, straight. :P
[10:42:09] <zeeshan> in the second pic
[10:42:12] <zeeshan> you see the button on the right?
[10:42:28] <zeeshan> that button is 30 degrees to the bottom surface of the handle
[10:42:41] <zeeshan> but from that 30 degree surface, the hole is 21 degrees
[10:42:43] <furrywolf> so it can't be a straight hole because the battery is in the way. can't see that in the first one. heh.
[10:42:54] <zeeshan> yes
[10:43:04] <zeeshan> so if my depth is wrong, i drill a hole through the side
[10:43:06] <zeeshan> pretty much :P
[10:43:21] <zeeshan> and i gotta spot drill first
[10:43:24] <zeeshan> annoying :(
[10:43:30] <Tom_itx> why?
[10:43:37] <Tom_itx> why are you spotting in wood?
[10:43:44] <zeeshan> the drill will wander
[10:44:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/BDzCuMo.png
[10:44:37] <zeeshan> you can tell from this pic
[10:44:40] <zeeshan> ive got the model angled
[10:44:53] <zeeshan> the gray circle is where the drill needs to be concentric with
[10:45:02] <Tom_itx> how you gonna get the connector thru the hole?
[10:45:02] <zeeshan> but the drill will meet an angled surface
[10:45:05] <zeeshan> and wander
[10:45:06] <furrywolf> make a second set of plates where the alignment is rotated 21 degrees, move the parts to them (keep the mandrel in, just swap the plates), the screw them back to the 30 degree spots on the fixture.
[10:45:11] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the most fun is fixing auto electrical problems touched by several others first
[10:45:27] <furrywolf> and use an endmill not a drill.
[10:45:42] <zeeshan> i dont think i got an end mill that long
[10:45:48] <zeeshan> i was gonna spot drill it
[10:45:49] <zeeshan> and then drill
[10:46:11] <furrywolf> use an endmill instead of a spot drill. even spot drills don't like starting on angled surfaces. :)
[10:46:39] <zeeshan> i have done spot drilling on angled surface before
[10:46:53] <zeeshan> :P
[10:47:01] <furrywolf> actually, you might not even need to make new plates. Can you add a second set of screw+dowel holes 21 degrees rotated to the same plates?
[10:47:04] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, he's made up his mind...
[10:47:24] <zeeshan> :P
[10:47:55] <furrywolf> setup is bad. you want to avoid any manual setup for production. :P
[10:48:03] <zeeshan> yes
[10:48:04] <zeeshan> faking setups
[10:48:05] <zeeshan> :{
[10:48:16] <furrywolf> do what I just said. :P
[10:48:23] <zeeshan> NO!
[10:48:30] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: what's the fixture for?
[10:48:58] <zeeshan> nasa landing gear
[10:49:27] <furrywolf> why? if I'm picturing the holes right, a set of 21 degree rotated plates, or a second set of holes (and trimming the ends where they'd hit the 0 and 90 portions of the fixture), will set up the hole for you, compound angles and all.
[10:49:42] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i wanted to do these on the drill press
[10:49:48] <zeeshan> while the other stuff was machining
[10:49:58] <zeeshan> which is why i wanted to do an independent fixture
[10:50:01] <Tom_itx> you'll screw that up for sure
[10:50:06] <zeeshan> otherwise i' woulda done what you were sayin
[10:50:15] <Tom_itx> let the cnc do the drilling
[10:50:53] <zeeshan> well a drill stop
[10:50:57] <zeeshan> and a drill fixture really is repeatable
[10:50:58] <zeeshan> and quick
[10:51:22] <Tom_itx> especially if you spot drill first because you'll have to make a manual tool change and adjust the depth of the drill each time
[10:51:29] <furrywolf> except for the whole exactly positioning it on the table thing...
[10:52:22] * zeeshan thinks which will be quicker -- considering both making fixture time + actual doing + accounting the fact that some parts could be machining on mill while drill press is free
[10:52:29] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i was going to use a drill guide
[10:52:29] <furrywolf> why doesn't your cnc have automatic tool changing yet? :P
[10:52:31] <zeeshan> for positioning
[10:52:48] <Tom_itx> you will need to spot them all first then
[10:52:52] <Tom_itx> then switch drills
[10:53:01] <Tom_itx> or you'll have alot of headaches
[10:53:13] <zeeshan> or just drill em with long end mills
[10:53:25] <Tom_itx> you don't have any
[10:53:28] <Tom_itx> you said so
[10:53:31] <zeeshan> can buy
[10:53:34] <zeeshan> actually
[10:53:37] <zeeshan> what about carbide drills
[10:53:39] <zeeshan> they wont wander
[10:53:46] <zeeshan> ill get stubby carbide drills
[10:53:49] <furrywolf> machine a steel thimble-shaped thing with a 21 degree hole in it that snugly fits into the hole in the part, then hand drill it with a stop on your drill bit.
[10:54:01] <CaptHindsight> long endmills do bend
[10:54:09] <zeeshan> furry yes that was going to be drill guide
[10:54:09] <Tom_itx> you can't get stubby carbide drills you said they need to be long
[10:54:10] <furrywolf> that'll both guide your drill, so you don't need to spot drill first, and position the hole.
[10:54:25] <zeeshan> but you still gotta hold the part right
[10:54:39] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: they come stubby
[10:54:53] <furrywolf> (flutes on drill bits don't cut, so it'll only wear your steel thing very slowly)
[10:55:28] <Tom_itx> he'd have trouble getting the insert rotated right every time
[10:55:30] <zeeshan> http://cuttingtoolpickers.com/index.php?cID=30&pID=10680
[10:56:00] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: he can make it extend outside the hole and locate off the other hole, or something. :)
[10:56:04] <PetefromTn_> meh whats a little hole in the side...nobody will notice :D
[10:56:22] <Tom_itx> yeah just fill it with bondo
[10:56:39] <PetefromTn_> a little putty and paint
[10:56:46] <furrywolf> the one from the battery compartment is even more fun angles.
[10:56:49] <PetefromTn_> will make a machinist what he aint
[10:56:53] <furrywolf> or I guess that's the electronics compartment
[10:57:34] <furrywolf> or liquid storage compartment?
[10:57:38] * furrywolf has never used such a device
[10:58:46] <zeeshan> last time i had to do these retarded holes
[10:58:51] <zeeshan> it was in a plastic injection mold
[10:59:16] <zeeshan> i can see why the machinists hate doing em :P
[11:00:13] <furrywolf> hurry up and make your mill 5-axis with an automatic tool changer, so you don't need to think about things like this. :P
[11:01:16] <furrywolf> things like this are what 5-axis and tool changers are for. :P
[11:01:49] <zeeshan> lol
[11:02:11] <furrywolf> then it'll just switch to a drill bit, rotate to the correct angle, and presto, finished part.
[11:03:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/UXbHkRn.png
[11:03:14] <zeeshan> ^ retarded holes in plastic injection mold part
[11:03:37] <furrywolf> if I make my shoptask 5-axis before you make your real mill 5-axis, I'll be very disappointed. :P
[11:04:25] <furrywolf> you'd love machining carbs. they have all sorts of angled passages between things with pressed in ball bearings to cover unneeded openings where they had to drill...
[11:04:34] <zeeshan> yea!
[11:04:40] <zeeshan> usually you encounter it in fluid passages
[11:04:47] <zeeshan> which is exactly what this was
[11:05:06] <Tom_itx> morning JT-Shop
[11:05:28] <JT-Shop> Howdy Tom_itx
[11:06:12] <furrywolf> I plan on a pair of rotary tables on my shoptask, for small 5-axis parts.
[11:06:38] <furrywolf> I'm not sure if I'll go with a trunion for the big one or not... I mean, it's not like the machine can really generate much in the way of cutting forces anyway. heh.
[11:07:06] <zeeshan> youre thinking
[11:07:11] <zeeshan> 2 rotary tables attached to each other?
[11:07:15] <furrywolf> yep
[11:07:22] <zeeshan> that'll work for even heavy duty jobs
[11:07:23] <furrywolf> with a couple big fat angle brackets.
[11:07:55] <zeeshan> just gotta do it right. :P
[11:08:47] * furrywolf will do it with whatever angle-shaped metal is available at the local scrapyard, whether it's right or not. (in both meanings of right!)
[11:09:03] <zeeshan> do calculations
[11:09:05] <zeeshan> on deflection
[11:09:07] <zeeshan> its not hard
[11:09:17] <zeeshan> is what i mean by "Right"
[11:09:23] <zeeshan> using the right material is only the other part of the eqn
[11:09:35] <furrywolf> do calculations on the cost of buying the right metal, with a gauranteed right angle, vs scrap.
[11:09:52] <zeeshan> i almost always use scrap for m y stuff
[11:09:57] <zeeshan> but critical stuff i check will it work
[11:10:02] <zeeshan> if not, what needs to be done to make it work
[11:10:05] <zeeshan> gussets/ ribs etc
[11:11:50] <furrywolf> my plan is to go to the scrapyard, find a length of heavy angle iron, and cut two pieces off the end with a cordless saw.
[11:11:57] <furrywolf> and use them.
[11:12:19] <zeeshan> rename yourself as furrymcguiverwolf
[11:12:27] <zeeshan> :P
[11:13:05] <furrywolf> no, I'm cutting them with a cordless saw, not an arc cutter made from a car battery, a dismantled zinc-carbon battery, and a bicycle pump.
[11:13:39] <PetefromTn_> and duct tape don't forget the duct tape
[11:17:59] <furrywolf> although I do bet I could make that work if needed. :P
[11:31:05] <furrywolf> blah. I need to stop at a local tool store, but they're not answering their phone, so I'm assuming they're closed today.
[11:32:51] <furrywolf> I need a larger tool bag. I switched my sockets to craftsman rails, with handles, and they no longer fit in the bag I have.
[11:32:52] <zeeshan> Tip of the day
[11:33:05] <zeeshan> chip thinning!
[11:33:30] <zeeshan> use a plastic bag
[11:33:30] <furrywolf> is that like thin chipping? :P
[11:33:30] <zeeshan> :P
[11:35:12] <zeeshan> trying to find a pic..
[11:36:01] <zeeshan> http://www.ctemag.com/aa_pages/2011/1101-Artmill-web-images/MAOM%202_opt.jpeg
[11:36:10] <zeeshan> for example if youre going to mill a full slot
[11:36:14] <zeeshan> you wanna arc in
[11:36:31] <zeeshan> you want the insert to remove say .25" of chip
[11:36:39] <zeeshan> but 0 on the exit
[11:37:00] <zeeshan> because in the beginning of the cut the loads are compressive
[11:37:24] <zeeshan> but say you did have a chip being cut on the exit, say .125"
[11:37:32] <zeeshan> the stresses would suddenly reverse from compressive to tensile
[11:37:41] <zeeshan> and usually in hard to cut materials you'd get a chipped insert
[11:39:13] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400557801725 I think that's going to be my new toolbag screwdriver. I had one of those a while ago and it went AWOL. people like walking of with your tools more when they have lights. :P
[11:43:03] <zeeshan> rule #1 don't let people borrow tools
[11:43:03] <zeeshan> :P
[11:43:14] * furrywolf is a nice wolfy
[11:43:20] <zeeshan> rule #2 if you let borrow -- keep track
[11:43:42] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W937-Ratcheting-Screwdriver/dp/B0007WO480 LOL. List price $75, a steal at $18! ... only $5-$8 everywhere else...
[11:46:12] * furrywolf has no idea why anyone ever shops at amazon
[11:46:35] <furrywolf> they have yet ever to have the lowest price on anything, and ship you the wrong item as often as not.
[11:51:05] <zeeshan> i believe you only feel like that :P
[11:51:33] <furrywolf> ?
[11:51:41] <zeeshan> http://www.google.ca/finance?cid=660463
[11:51:53] <zeeshan> looks like a steady growth over 5 years :P
[11:52:10] <furrywolf> because we all know most profitable means best, right? :P
[11:52:15] <zeeshan> yes
[11:52:16] <zeeshan> :P
[11:52:25] <zeeshan> they're making sales!
[11:54:02] <PetefromTn_> warmup program activated!!
[11:54:46] <furrywolf> is that where you warm up breakfast for hungy wolfies? :P
[11:55:10] * zeeshan only thought warm up programs were for production environments
[11:55:10] <zeeshan> :P
[11:55:19] <PetefromTn_> no already had my cinammon french toast and scrambled eggs with fresh OJ
[11:55:38] <PetefromTn_> ALWAYS warmup my machine
[11:58:07] <zeeshan> its really just needed for tight tolerance stuff
[11:58:40] <PetefromTn_> nope
[11:58:41] <zeeshan> but i do let my spindle warm up
[11:58:44] <zeeshan> before giving it load
[11:59:41] * furrywolf doesn't warm machines up
[11:59:54] <zeeshan> in our SOP in production
[11:59:57] <zeeshan> thats where we used it a lot
[12:00:04] <zeeshan> lightning storm, machines had to go down
[12:00:10] <zeeshan> needed to do warm up procedure
[12:00:29] <zeeshan> otherwise the poor things ran 24hrs
[12:00:59] <PetefromTn_> ALWAYS warm up my machines
[12:00:59] <zeeshan> https://diy.haascnc.com/reference-docs/mill-spindle-warm-program
[12:01:05] <zeeshan> even haas says you dont need to do it always
[12:01:17] <PetefromTn_> don't care what HAAS says
[12:01:26] <zeeshan> you have one machine?
[12:01:32] <zeeshan> :D
[12:01:40] <PetefromTn_> and
[12:01:45] <zeeshan> where's the S coming from
[12:01:56] * zeeshan feels like picking on pete today
[12:02:00] <PetefromTn_> I have many machines here
[12:02:06] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-Pneumatic-1037-6pc-Hex-Bit-Set-5-10mm-/400575612640 that's clever.
[12:02:07] <zeeshan> you warm up your tig welder too?
[12:02:07] <zeeshan> :D
[12:02:10] <PetefromTn_> always warm them all up
[12:02:19] <zeeshan> and your drill press?
[12:02:21] <PetefromTn_> I would if I could actually
[12:02:24] <zeeshan> lol
[12:02:51] <zeeshan> its a little common sense
[12:02:55] <zeeshan> if a machine has been sitting around for a while
[12:02:58] <zeeshan> theres no way lube on the ways
[12:03:04] <zeeshan> you need to move the axis around and pump lube
[12:03:14] <zeeshan> and get some lube going in the spindle
[12:03:23] <zeeshan> but to do it every time you start the machine seems a little hardcore
[12:03:47] <PetefromTn_> call me hardcore then
[12:04:09] <furrywolf> where does the lube magically go when the machine is off? :)
[12:05:00] <zeeshan> furrywolf: technically no where when you're using proper way lube cause of the tackifiers
[12:05:21] <zeeshan> but given enough time, it'll eventually not be as much as it was
[12:05:27] <zeeshan> cause of gravity
[12:06:01] <furrywolf> "12pc Bulletproof Torx Bit Socket Set" "1/4 inch drive T10 T15 T20 T25 T27 T30 3/8 Drive T40 T45 T50 T55 and 1/2" drive T60" ... I like that idea. Let's call our tools bulletproof because we made them all use one size too small of drive, so you break your extension/ratchet first. :)
[12:06:10] <furrywolf> a 3/8 drive t55? lol
[12:06:40] <furrywolf> zeeshan: chainsaw bar oil makes excellent way lube, just in case you ever need to know. :P
[12:06:49] <PetefromTn_> every shop I have worked in always warms up their machines before running that day and only one of those shops was a production environment. In the Coast Guard we always warmed up whatever equipment as a rule we were going to be using that day. It is just a good practice to get into..
[12:07:12] <zeeshan> production env to me is a 24 hr facility
[12:07:23] <zeeshan> so my definition is slightly diff
[12:07:34] <PetefromTn_> it was a 24hr facility
[12:07:46] <zeeshan> well you shouldn't need to warm up amachine then
[12:07:47] <zeeshan> wasting time then
[12:07:55] <furrywolf> (good bar lube, not generic hardware store brands which are just motor oil)
[12:08:01] <PetefromTn_> not all machines get run 24/7
[12:08:10] <zeeshan> in my environment they do
[12:08:10] <zeeshan> :P
[12:08:17] <PetefromTn_> of course they do
[12:10:06] <zeeshan> pete im messing with you
[12:10:10] <zeeshan> you get rowdy realllllllllll easy
[12:10:18] <PetefromTn_> I consider it a form of general maintenance
[12:10:30] <zeeshan> no its not general maintenance
[12:10:32] <zeeshan> it's necessary
[12:10:39] <zeeshan> would you go beating on your car when it's cold?
[12:10:45] <zeeshan> you'd destroy your rings! :P
[12:11:06] <zeeshan> but not every machine needs warming up
[12:11:08] <zeeshan> cnc machines yes.
[12:11:10] <PetefromTn_> lots of shitheads do just that
[12:11:15] <zeeshan> but, cmon a drill press
[12:11:17] <zeeshan> or a tig welder
[12:11:26] <furrywolf> I really don't think any part of my shoptask needs warming up.
[12:11:34] <zeeshan> furrywolf: it's a shop task! :P
[12:11:41] <furrywolf> the grease will still be in the same place as when it was turned off. :P
[12:12:00] <zeeshan> furrywolf: way lube is one aspect
[12:12:03] <zeeshan> but thing about it like this
[12:12:07] <furrywolf> and my B&S pressure lubricates the spindle, so it'll be nice and oiled by the time it comes up to speed...
[12:12:18] <zeeshan> you got a ball bearing, there is 0.0006" gap between the bearings
[12:12:23] <zeeshan> and operating temp theyu need to be around 0.0002"
[12:12:36] <zeeshan> so now the balls aren't riding as smoothly
[12:12:53] <zeeshan> combined with additional forces, you'll get wear
[12:12:53] <furrywolf> (speaking of which, the B&S is friggin scary at 1800rpm with that big 3-jaw chuck the last owner put on it)
[12:13:01] <zeeshan> while if they were at 0.0002, you wouldnt get as much wear.
[12:13:19] <zeeshan> oiling is one aspect
[12:13:20] <zeeshan> another is heat
[12:13:27] <zeeshan> just like in your car, your piston rings expand
[12:13:40] <zeeshan> and stop air fuel mixture from getting into tyour crankcase..
[12:13:49] <furrywolf> at 1800rpm, it has a very impressive spinup sound... everything buzzes and the lights dim and it just keeps getting faster while people start backing away from it. lol
[12:13:55] <zeeshan> lol
[12:14:15] <furrywolf> there's a LOT of steel being accelerated there.
[12:14:18] <zeeshan> my mill is so quiet with in horizontal mode..
[12:14:23] <zeeshan> but vertical head makes it loud
[12:14:26] <zeeshan> i guess cause of the bevel gear
[12:14:39] <zeeshan> need a hypoid gear in there!
[12:14:57] <furrywolf> on most cars. I was working on a truck last week with enough blowby that it was coming out around the dipstick. :P
[12:15:11] <zeeshan> lol
[12:15:35] <furrywolf> my favorite is still an rx7 that upon starting immediately launched the dipstick into the hood.
[12:15:40] <zeeshan> thats actually a test i do to check the condition of a car
[12:15:53] <zeeshan> leave the oil cap off and get someone to start up car
[12:15:56] <zeeshan> feel the blow by
[12:16:01] <zeeshan> then feel it after it's warm
[12:16:22] <zeeshan> tells a lot about the condition of the rings
[12:16:33] <zeeshan> and valve seals
[12:16:42] <zeeshan> *valves
[12:17:38] <furrywolf> I've done that on a couple subarus, and have yet to see any blowby whatsoever, even after 300K+ miles.
[12:17:49] <furrywolf> fords on the other hand...
[12:18:52] <furrywolf> subarus make a very interesting sound with the oil cap off. the boxer design results in odd airflow inside the block.
[12:20:45] <Loetmichel> sounds a bit like a baby blubbering?
[12:21:31] <zeeshan> furry can i pick on you
[12:21:34] <zeeshan> i need someone to pick on
[12:21:34] <zeeshan> ;[
[12:22:09] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: yep
[12:22:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/pBXW75h.jpg
[12:22:33] <zeeshan> im curious what these hooks are for
[12:22:35] <zeeshan> on the side of the machine
[12:23:15] <zeeshan> they look like lifting hooks
[12:23:19] <furrywolf> hooks?
[12:23:19] <zeeshan> but ones upside down
[12:23:37] <furrywolf> oh, next to the pump
[12:23:37] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/MGZN67P.jpg yup Ford's suck... ;)
[12:23:41] <zeeshan> yes
[12:23:46] <zeeshan> its on all 4 corners
[12:24:11] <furrywolf> it's a lifting hook that someone flipped over because having it right side up keeps the box next to it from opening.
[12:24:24] <furrywolf> see the piano hinge?
[12:24:52] <furrywolf> flip right side up to lift, flip upside down to open box.
[12:25:36] <zeeshan> hm
[12:25:43] <zeeshan> wonder if my engine hoist can lift this!
[12:25:44] <zeeshan> :P
[12:26:06] <zeeshan> those hooks look like they go into a cast iron base
[12:26:14] <furrywolf> andy or arch (I can't remember which) will have an image to paste in response to that. :P
[12:26:15] <zeeshan> so lifting from there shouldnt hurt anything
[12:26:29] <furrywolf> yes. that's why there's hooks there. so you lift there. lol
[12:26:50] <furrywolf> and then you flip it back over so the covers open, apparantly. LOL
[12:26:54] <zeeshan> lol
[12:30:07] <furrywolf> looking at the size of it, I don't think even an engine hoist per corner is going to move it.
[12:30:26] <CaptHindsight> Engine Hoists are for testing the tensile strength of anything you forget to disconnect
[12:31:15] <zeeshan> only 9800lb
[12:31:20] <zeeshan> 2 hoists per side
[12:31:21] <zeeshan> will be ok
[12:31:22] <zeeshan> :P
[12:31:23] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: "TWAANNNNGGGGG".. "ocuch, that was the brake line"
[12:32:20] <furrywolf> you have brake lines going to your engine? funky. :P
[12:32:35] <CaptHindsight> I slide machines that weight around my floor with soap and water
[12:32:43] <Loetmichel> across the engine to the brake amplifier ;)
[12:33:13] <archivist> zeeshan, upside downs are probably for tying to the truck
[12:33:19] <Loetmichel> did that stunt without the hist tho
[12:33:26] <zeeshan> archivist: now that makes sense!
[12:33:35] <zeeshan> cause i see forklift spaces on the bottom of the machine
[12:33:38] <CaptHindsight> whats worse is trying to lift and engine out that is designed to be dropped out the bottom
[12:33:42] <zeeshan> so it wasn't making sense why youd lift it
[12:33:43] <archivist> and for holding an axis still
[12:33:45] <Loetmichel> lifted the engine out by hand... and boke off the brake lines to the front calipers...
[12:33:47] <CaptHindsight> and/an
[12:34:05] <Loetmichel> they are on the gearbox on a citroen 2cv ;-)
[12:34:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: did you get your lathe for $3500?
[12:34:44] <zeeshan> not sure yet capt
[12:34:47] <zeeshan> itll be 4500
[12:34:52] <zeeshan> if the deal goes through
[12:34:55] <zeeshan> thru
[12:35:25] <furrywolf> hah! google's finally added a disclaimer to their search. "Payment is one of several factors used to rank these results."
[12:36:18] <archivist> has a cmm been implemented with linuxcnc
[12:40:53] <furrywolf> it's sunny out, and the car has a tank full of bad gas I need to burn.
[12:41:12] <furrywolf> I should go drive somewhere.
[12:41:36] <archivist> put some good fuel in so it has something to burn
[12:41:52] <furrywolf> yes, after exhausting the bad fuel. :P
[12:42:14] <archivist> before, you dont want to get stuck out there
[12:42:36] <archivist> 10-20% ish
[12:43:16] <furrywolf> it has a small amount of water in the tank. I don't know about where you are, but here, gasoline absorbs water, thanks to the ethanol in it. The result is something that mostly burns but doesn't run well... and I need to take the car into the smog shop, which won't work if it has crap waterlogged fuel in it.
[12:44:21] <archivist> we get an annual emissions check wit the rest of the vehicle test
[12:44:22] <furrywolf> so I need to go drive about 200 miles to burn it off so I can refill the (currently full) tank with fresh gas. :)
[12:44:45] <furrywolf> yes, but is your petrol cut with ethanol :P
[12:45:08] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Can you dum it into your generators?
[12:45:12] <Jymmm> dumo
[12:45:21] <archivist> dunno, I use deseasal
[12:45:34] <furrywolf> I could, but I don't have any current need to run a generator, and it'll take a lot longer to use it up that way.
[12:45:46] <furrywolf> and you can't dispose of it, as it's $5/gallon to dump...
[12:45:51] <Jymmm> furrywolf: power tools? chain saw?
[12:46:05] <furrywolf> chain saws barely run on fresh gas. :P
[12:46:15] <Jymmm> furrywolf: sell it to some tweeker?
[12:46:28] <furrywolf> all chainsaws are in a permanent state of barely running, from the day they're made.
[12:46:40] * furrywolf wants honda to make a 4-stroke chainsaw
[12:48:32] <furrywolf> chainsaws sound like a good application for a microturbine, actually.
[12:49:02] <Jymmm> dump it to another car, get half a tank of good gas, pass smog, then put a little back in till you've used it up?
[12:49:11] <furrywolf> they're already way too fucking loud, burn you if you touch any part of them, and don't work properly at anything less than full throttle... :P
[12:51:17] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: There is one exception.
[12:51:29] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: if any body part is in the way of the cut, they are very reliable
[12:53:53] <furrywolf> lol
[13:36:07] <PetefromTn_> 102 days until the Millenium Falcon Rides Again!!!
[13:44:04] <JT-Shop> furrywolf, obviously does not own a Stihl chainsaw
[13:45:13] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Hey, what's up with all the star wars shit lately?
[13:45:52] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[13:45:59] <jdh> Pete: seen/heard from connor recently?
[13:46:14] <PetefromTn_> no I spoke to him a week or so ago tho
[13:46:23] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Even target is advertising star wars crap. Is there some new movie? anniversary or something?
[13:46:54] <PetefromTn_> Hell yeah man JJ Abrams is making a new Star Wars Movie and it will be out on December 18 of this year
[13:47:06] <Jymmm> oh phuk me
[13:47:14] <PetefromTn_> same guy that made the revamped Star Trek Movies recently
[13:47:37] <PetefromTn_> It's gonna be HUGE ;)
[13:47:54] <PetefromTn_> I can't wait to see it
[13:48:50] <PetefromTn_> this past friday they just did a big prerelease of more information about it as well as releasing some of the toys and action figures related to the new movie
[13:49:04] <PetefromTn_> there is also ANOTHER movie coming after that apparenlty
[14:02:40] <robinsz> evening ...
[14:03:54] <robinsz> so can someone give me a quick pointer on how to do a toolchange on a router ... I basically will have a bar along the back of the machine with 8 or 10 tools sitting in pockets
[14:04:37] <robinsz> and need it to drop off the tool in the vacant pocket, and pick up the new tool in the usual fashion
[14:05:31] <JT-Shop> what is "the usual fasion"?
[14:06:57] <robinsz> a sort of up down motion, with a tool release/clamp at some point in the cycle
[14:07:54] <JT-Shop> G code can do that easy enough
[14:08:49] <robinsz> yes, I know, M6 T3
[14:09:28] <JT-Shop> no, I mean G0 Xn Zn then M63P0 etc
[14:09:42] <robinsz> no, cant do that
[14:09:52] <JT-Shop> why?
[14:09:58] <robinsz> that would require my CAM to know about tool holder positions
[14:10:13] <JT-Shop> ah more hidden information
[14:10:24] <JT-Shop> sounds like you need to learn remap
[14:11:29] <robinsz> hmm
[14:12:06] <robinsz> isnt this more of a HAL / Classic Ladder thing?
[14:12:47] <JT-Shop> you could do things in ClassicLadder but moving an axis is not normally one of them
[14:13:03] <robinsz> oh. well scrub that then
[14:13:09] <robinsz> HAL then?
[14:14:03] <JT-Shop> you could write a HAL component to do that, look at the thc component how I hijacked the Z axis
[14:14:34] <robinsz> I want it to work pretty much like it does on real CNCs so the CAM just says "T6" and the machine gets on with what ever it has to do to achieve that
[14:15:02] <robinsz> I'm assuming people have already written this stuff and I just need a pointer to where it is?
[14:15:06] <JT-Shop> right, Tn is tool prepare and there are hal pins for that
[14:15:37] <JT-Shop> might try searching the forum, I think I recall someone asking about that a few years ago
[14:15:41] <robinsz> and HAL can make axis moves etc?
[14:15:58] <JT-Shop> have you looked at remap?
[14:16:07] <JT-Shop> I do it with my thc component
[14:18:33] <robinsz> hmm ... looks "complicated"
[14:19:43] <robinsz> I suspect "learning Python" might be a stumbling block to getting this working for Thursday
[14:20:01] <JT-Shop> the manual seems to have a expansive section on tool change for remap
[14:20:07] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:20:58] <robinsz> yes, it does ...
[14:21:17] <JT-Shop> looks somewhat simple (to me) using o subs in remap
[14:22:26] <robinsz> I was rather hoping to find a workign solution that I could adapt
[14:23:19] <JT-Shop> google tool change site:linuxcnc.org
[14:23:22] <fenn> i think you can do remap for a rack toolchanger with just G code files
[14:25:35] <JT-Shop> dang this computer is running slow... maybe a size 10 boot will fix it
[14:26:57] <robinsz> fenn, can you do it without putting rack positions in the CAM?
[14:28:06] <fenn> can your post do something like T1 M6 P1 (where P always = T)
[14:28:12] <robinsz> fenn, my CAM, like most CAM's just outputs "M6 Txx" ... I can put other crap around it fairly easily, but it would be indetical each time
[14:28:45] <robinsz> sure, Txx M6 Pxx is easy
[14:28:50] <robinsz> its Vectric
[14:29:14] <fenn> ok that might not be needed but it makes it easier to think about for me
[14:29:42] <robinsz> I had assumed that "rack toolchanger" was a failry common thing
[14:29:58] <JT-Shop> I've never seen one
[14:30:13] <robinsz> you are kidding right?
[14:30:37] <JT-Shop> nope, all my tool changers are turrets or carosels
[14:30:45] <robinsz> those will be mills
[14:30:56] <JT-Shop> or in the case of my Anilam converted mill the tool changer is me :)
[14:31:08] <JT-Shop> lathe and VMC yea
[14:31:09] <robinsz> on routers, its failry common
[14:31:13] <fenn> so i think you would do something like [RS274NGC] REMAP=M6 argspec=P ngc=toolchange
[14:31:47] <fenn> then you make a file toolchange.ngc which multiplies P by some parameter (space between the tools) and adds another parameter (tool origin)
[14:32:43] <robinsz> http://www.biesseonline.com/assets/user/media/RoverJ_RackToolChanger.jpg
[14:32:45] <fenn> and does the actual toolchange stuff by turning on digital-in and digital-out and doing the handshake dance with hal to ensure that the tool actually has changed (pins motion.tool-change and motion.tool-changed)
[14:33:22] <fenn> i would rather just point you at a file but i don't know where it would be
[14:33:27] <robinsz> right
[14:34:17] <JT-Shop> well there are 6 sample configs for remap and guess what
[14:34:20] <fenn> take a look at http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/remap/rack-toolchange;h=aca5e2b779f4b497e1864b035c74c24320543ebe;hb=HEAD
[14:34:24] <JT-Shop> one is rack tool change
[14:35:15] <JT-Shop> so in sim axis remap is an example
[14:35:33] <robinsz> ah ha, perfect, thanks
[14:35:46] <JT-Shop> and I just ran it and it works
[14:36:00] <fenn> "works in simulation, ship it!"
[14:36:25] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:40:02] <fenn> this looks pretty sketchy: net tool-change  iocontrol.0.tool-change  iocontrol.0.tool-changed
[14:40:24] <robinsz> well, yeah
[14:40:45] <robinsz> but, my spindle has "tool ejected" and "tool in place and locked" sensors
[14:40:52] <robinsz> so I can work on that
[14:41:32] <pcw_home> net tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-changed
[14:41:33] <pcw_home> makes sense for a sim config
[14:41:39] <robinsz> true
[14:42:02] <robinsz> anyway, thankyou gentlemen for the pointer
[14:42:08] <pcw_home> (unless you want to write the tool changed hardware simulator in hal)
[14:42:14] <pcw_home> changer
[14:42:42] <fenn> it looks like it was written for a real machine but ended up in configs/sim/ for some reason
[14:42:50] <robinsz> I rebuilt my spindle (again) at the weekend, and it runs way better again
[14:43:15] <robinsz> you want to know how much they wanted to do a rebuild?
[14:43:23] <robinsz> 1850 ...
[14:43:30] <fenn> more then the price of the spindle?
[14:43:42] <fenn> more than*
[14:43:47] <robinsz> if only ... I thnk they are around 4K new
[14:43:58] <furrywolf> again? how often does it need rebuilding? heh
[14:44:05] <robinsz> ah well ...
[14:44:46] <robinsz> I had it done by a professional first time ... cost me 1850
[14:45:07] <robinsz> "does it matter if I have water in the air?" "no, thats fine, bearings are sealed"
[14:45:14] <robinsz> this turned out to be false
[14:45:29] <robinsz> so I called him a few choice words ...
[14:45:38] <robinsz> and he rebuilt it for half price
[14:45:52] <robinsz> 12 months later it failed again.
[14:45:54] <fenn> what a bargain~
[14:46:20] <robinsz> he had forgotton to open the nosecone bleed air ...so dust got in
[14:46:40] <robinsz> and even if he had opened the needle valve
[14:47:07] <robinsz> it would not have worked, as the bearign housing was rotated 90 degrees and the air hole did not line up with hole in body
[14:47:27] <robinsz> and a few other things
[14:47:39] <robinsz> so I rebouilt it 6 months ago, but used wrong grease
[14:48:08] <robinsz> it began to run hot, so I rebuilt this weekend and it;s lovely and smooth and runs cooooooooooool
[14:48:25] <robinsz> it ran all day at 18k without issue
[14:48:35] <furrywolf> that's a lot of rebuilds.
[14:49:03] <robinsz> but mine only cost me 65 a time
[14:50:00] <furrywolf> what's wrong and right grease?
[14:50:09] * furrywolf uses molygraph for most things...
[14:50:10] <robinsz> wrong is "ordinary"
[14:50:20] <robinsz> and right is "high speed spindle grease"
[14:50:34] <robinsz> moly is $10 a tube
[14:50:48] <robinsz> high speed is $150
[14:50:51] <furrywolf> lol
[14:51:04] <furrywolf> none of my spindles go about 2K rpm. :)
[14:51:09] <furrywolf> above
[14:51:15] <robinsz> moly is fine then
[14:51:21] <robinsz> this maxs at 24k
[14:51:34] <robinsz> most routing is around 18k
[14:51:39] <furrywolf> yeah, that might be a tad more demanding. just a tad.
[14:53:13] <robinsz> right, I'll go and try this remap thing out on 2.7
[14:53:32] <robinsz> must say, I love the trajector planner in 2.7
[14:53:39] <robinsz> first time it has really worked for me
[14:53:45] <JT-Shop> yea, I love it on my plasma
[14:53:49] <robinsz> yep
[14:53:58] <robinsz> I gave up on plasma with the old one
[14:54:03] <JT-Shop> ttt generated text runs at speed on 2.7 with nurbs
[14:54:22] <robinsz> thick steel is OK on the old one
[14:54:28] <zeeshan> i was doing 3d surfacing for this wood thing
[14:54:32] <zeeshan> at 40ipm
[14:54:35] <zeeshan> the motion is very jerky!
[14:54:38] <zeeshan> i need to try 2.7
[14:54:46] <furrywolf> I'll need to fetch my laptop from storage and bring it here to upgrade.
[14:54:52] <robinsz> but running thin sheet on a plasma, you need smooth motion
[14:55:12] <robinsz> I might have to try it again
[14:55:50] <JT-Shop> 2.7 is a world of difference on the plasma
[14:55:57] <robinsz> yep
[14:56:07] <robinsz> does your cam do cloverleaf corners?
[14:56:32] <furrywolf> everyone here who's complained about trajectory planning issues has said 2.7 fixed them...
[14:56:33] <JT-Shop> only if I ask it to I think, I'm using the free version of sheetcam
[14:56:44] <robinsz> oh right
[14:57:04] <furrywolf> I might wait to deal with upgrading until pcw gets a 7i76e finished so I can upgrade and set it up at once. :)
[14:57:17] <robinsz> well, if it does, try it on 2.7 and thin sheet
[14:57:33] <robinsz> should really fly
[15:16:46] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rechargeable-power-Led-Cob-work-Light-stand-waterproof-50-20-10-Watt-Battery-/321777531326 the 50W version... "14.8volt 17.6ah" is a pretty hefty battery. I'm assuming it's fake, but it's tempting if it really does put out anywhere near that much light for that much time...
[15:18:08] <Sync> oh those are perfect for trolling
[15:18:43] <Sync> https://twitter.com/lubiana/status/633022798273900545
[15:20:34] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: i would bet they added voltage AND capacity of the cells
[15:21:02] <cpresser> any ideas how to fix that: http://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?755109
[15:21:16] <furrywolf> http://www.megeled.com/u_file/images/13_06_03/7ddf49effd.jpg I love the photoshop job on the first image.
[15:21:21] <Loetmichel> so it will be 4 cells 4.4ah in series
[15:22:00] <Loetmichel> the chips ARE bright tho
[15:22:24] <Loetmichel> thats a 100W one on the right (scroll) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15957&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:22:40] <Loetmichel> and the desk lamp on the left has a 36W flourecent in it
[15:22:58] <Loetmichel> simply insanely bright ;)
[15:23:42] <furrywolf> every one of them I can find looks like the same unit, but has widely varying battery specs, ranging from 8.4V to 28.8V, and 4.4ah to 17.6ah... in random combinations. lol
[15:25:07] <fenn> cpresser: what was the error
[15:25:34] <cpresser> fenn: that is the error.
[15:25:40] <fenn> that's just a stack trace
[15:25:53] <cpresser> yes, that is all i have
[15:26:10] <fenn> is positions[3] a float?
[15:26:25] <fenn> it could be an int, or a string, or a None
[15:26:44] <cpresser> well, i dont hav a clue. that happens with the 2.6.9 release.
[15:27:00] <cpresser> i didnt look at any of those source files yet
[15:27:09] <fenn> please provide some context
[15:27:26] <zeeshan> http://www.exapro.com/used-okuma-howa-act-3-cnc-turning-center-p30503040/#
[15:27:31] <zeeshan> whats the wart on the side of the machine
[15:27:32] <zeeshan> left side
[15:27:33] <cpresser> running linuxcnc. that error shows up in the console.
[15:27:35] <zeeshan> spindle motor?
[15:27:46] <zeeshan> or some sort of feeder :P
[15:28:34] <furrywolf> dunno, I'll let you know when it gets here. :P
[15:30:19] <fenn> cpresser: is this with trivkins or something else? are you trying to move a rotary table when it happens?
[15:35:49] <cpresser> fenn: nope, scarakins
[15:37:40] <fenn> well this is definitely a bug and you should send a bug report http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation/48-bug-reports
[15:38:34] <fenn> but in the meanwhile it might bypass the problem to do in your inifile [AXIS_3]WRAPPED_ROTARY=0 and probably likewise for the others
[15:39:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what were the additions for % in the man pages?
[15:39:16] <cpresser> fenn: ill take a deeper look, thank you
[15:39:22] <Tom_itx> did you find something on that for linuxcnc?
[15:39:28] <cpresser> non trivial kinematis isnt that easy :/
[15:39:37] <JT-Shop> just a warning that % does not reset a bunch of things that M2 does
[15:39:47] <Tom_itx> ahh
[15:39:51] <Tom_itx> or M30...
[15:39:56] <fenn> also not many people use/test non-trivial kinematics so things get broken and rarely fixed
[15:39:59] <Tom_itx> may wanna add that if you didn't
[15:40:17] <JT-Shop> M2/30 is in the same section
[15:40:23] <Tom_itx> i don't think % is used much anymore
[15:40:27] <Tom_itx> ok
[15:40:35] <JT-Shop> as far as I can tell M2 is the same as M30
[15:40:45] <Tom_itx> slight difference
[15:40:49] <JT-Shop> I see it all the time on code snippets on the forum
[15:40:52] <Tom_itx> one stops and one will restart
[15:40:53] <fenn> iirc % doesn't reset the positions and parameters at the end of the program
[15:41:01] <JT-Shop> I don't think LinuxCNC has that difference
[15:41:45] <Tom_itx> M30 will exchange pallets
[15:41:49] <Tom_itx> M2 won't
[15:42:13] <Tom_itx> if you have a pallet changer
[15:42:38] <Tom_itx> damn i hate phone upgrades
[15:42:47] <furrywolf> that's what zee needs... a 5-axis mill with a pallet changer. :)
[15:42:55] <JT-Shop> have you seen an exchange pallet pin in linuxcnc?
[15:43:08] <Tom_itx> honestly i haven't looked
[15:43:18] <zeeshan> :P
[15:43:22] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/f9iEL
[15:43:23] <Tom_itx> there should be one if it's supported :D
[15:43:24] <zeeshan> furry ^
[15:43:26] <zeeshan> i changed the design a bit
[15:43:32] <zeeshan> for the wire holes
[15:43:34] <zeeshan> fuck these compound holes
[15:43:38] <zeeshan> its an utter waste of time to make those jigs
[15:43:43] <zeeshan> i told him im doing this
[15:43:52] <zeeshan> he can fill the non round edge with filler.
[15:44:24] <fenn> why is it glowing?
[15:44:32] <zeeshan> highlighting it
[15:44:37] <furrywolf> I'm not sure what that is. you're just making a slot alongside the battery instead of a seperate hole?
[15:44:43] <zeeshan> exactly
[15:44:45] <zeeshan> w/ a ball nose
[15:44:58] <fenn> yeah that looks a lot smarter
[15:44:59] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, I think M30 is like G8 somthing it is in the manual but it does not do anything different
[15:45:09] <zeeshan> its a 2 min change in g-code
[15:45:12] <Tom_itx> could be..
[15:45:13] <zeeshan> vs 021393182 hours of fixture design
[15:45:14] <zeeshan> etc
[15:45:15] <zeeshan> blah blah
[15:45:18] <furrywolf> will the hole be covered by the plate?
[15:45:20] <zeeshan> no
[15:45:20] <Tom_itx> some controls it will reset the pallet changer
[15:45:26] <fenn> less chance of accidentally drilling through too
[15:45:27] <zeeshan> he'll fill with glue and wood chips
[15:45:30] <furrywolf> make the plate cover the hole? :P
[15:45:33] <zeeshan> fenn yes
[15:45:37] <JT-Shop> I think there was mention of a tapping cycle but said it is accepted but not used
[15:45:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i haven't seen anybody here that uses pallets that i can recall
[15:45:55] <zeeshan> im using pallets
[15:45:56] <zeeshan> !
[15:45:59] <Tom_itx> G78?
[15:46:00] <Tom_itx> iirc
[15:46:06] <fenn> 1 inch pallets
[15:46:12] <furrywolf> what about using an undercutting cutter so it doesn't need to extend all the way to the outside?
[15:46:15] <JT-Shop> sam's big machine does I think
[15:46:29] <Tom_itx> no... G76
[15:46:29] <zeeshan> furry valid idea
[15:46:36] <Tom_itx> thread cycle
[15:46:38] <zeeshan> but that will likely be a non standard cutter
[15:46:43] <furrywolf> yes, it will.
[15:46:58] <zeeshan> most key seat cutters
[15:46:59] <Tom_itx> i mentioned they should update that to work like the sync movement one
[15:47:00] <zeeshan> dont extend that deep
[15:47:02] <furrywolf> I don't know if you can find one long enough. heh.
[15:47:05] <zeeshan> yea
[15:47:08] <Tom_itx> G33.1?
[15:47:38] <JT-Shop> G84 Right-Hand Tapping
[15:47:38] <JT-Shop> This code is currently unimplemented in EMC2. It is accepted, but the behavior is undefined.
[15:47:38] <zeeshan> i use g33.1
[15:47:40] <Tom_itx> except G33.1 doesn't position first like a normal cycle would
[15:47:46] <zeeshan> yea
[15:47:51] <zeeshan> but that is easy to deal with in cam
[15:47:52] <Tom_itx> you must take care of that in your cam
[15:47:54] <furrywolf> can you run a hole from the button over to the mouthpiece area and then enlarge the hole under it?
[15:48:01] <Tom_itx> zeeshan stop it!!
[15:48:06] <zeeshan> you stop it!!!
[15:48:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: ill put a button in your face
[15:48:30] <JT-Shop> you can tap a sideways hole with G33.1
[15:48:35] <furrywolf> ...
[15:48:56] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[15:49:02] <zeeshan> technically if i tillt the work piece
[15:49:04] <zeeshan> like 2 degrees
[15:49:06] <furrywolf> that does not seem like an appropriate nor polite response to someone trying to help you.
[15:49:09] <zeeshan> i could ball nose straight down
[15:49:16] <zeeshan> furrywolf: whatcha gonna do about it
[15:49:21] <zeeshan> fly over and fight?
[15:49:52] <fenn> NURD RAGE
[15:49:58] <zeeshan> come at me bro
[15:50:00] <zeeshan> come.
[15:50:06] * furrywolf didn't know they made crack extract for vaporizers, but it seems like zee has been testing some...
[15:50:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: nahh man
[15:50:31] <zeeshan> this is what happens when i work on something too long
[15:50:47] <furrywolf> you become a jerk?
[15:50:54] <zeeshan> i troll even more
[15:51:05] <furrywolf> YOU WON'T LIKE ME WHEN I'M OVERWORKED!
[15:51:19] <zeeshan> i think i found someone i can pick on
[15:51:21] <zeeshan> Fenn.
[15:51:22] <zeeshan> hi
[15:51:28] * fenn hides
[15:51:47] * JT-Shop goes back to cleaning the shop and looking for floor
[15:51:50] <furrywolf> lol
[15:52:35] <zeeshan> fenn: im gonna make him wood filler it
[15:52:41] <zeeshan> especially after i got lied to about the cost of the wood
[15:52:42] <zeeshan> :P
[15:52:50] <zeeshan> im doing whatever is easier for me
[15:52:57] <zeeshan> a ball nose going straight down
[15:53:02] <zeeshan> removing 50 thou of material is easier
[15:53:28] <furrywolf> what about what I said? drilling from the button over to the mouthpiece area, then down parallel to the existing hole between the mouthpiece and the side panel?
[15:53:53] <zeeshan> mouth piece area = ?
[15:54:07] <furrywolf> the round shiny silver thing
[15:54:13] <furrywolf> that I'm assuming gets stuck in the user's mouth.
[15:55:06] <zeeshan> he wants no breaks there
[15:55:26] <furrywolf> not even internal, hidden passages?
[15:55:37] <zeeshan> thats where the "510" torques into
[15:55:46] <zeeshan> wanna keep it meaty there
[15:55:55] <zeeshan> if im understanding you correctly, ill be removing material from there
[15:56:02] <zeeshan> also the reason im stuck on the ball nose thing
[15:56:08] <zeeshan> is because i can do it in a setup i already ahve
[15:56:09] <zeeshan> *have
[15:59:37] <zeeshan> just thought of something
[15:59:41] <zeeshan> why am i not using a boring head?
[15:59:57] <zeeshan> ??
[16:00:18] <furrywolf> for?
[16:00:26] <zeeshan> instead of a keyseat cutter
[16:00:28] <zeeshan> i can use a boring bar..
[16:00:37] <zeeshan> i can enter it so it's not touching
[16:00:43] <zeeshan> and then offset it when its inside the hole
[16:00:47] <zeeshan> to start boring away..
[16:00:55] <furrywolf> if you have one that small, sounds good.
[16:01:18] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/3AoKYM4 extremely quick, sloppy example of what I was thinking
[16:01:49] <zeeshan> that breaks thru the area
[16:01:54] <zeeshan> for the mouth piece
[16:02:11] <zeeshan> and that left angle needs a special setup
[16:02:22] <furrywolf> it'd be entirely hidden under it
[16:02:31] <zeeshan> that mouthpiece
[16:02:32] <zeeshan> comes off
[16:02:35] <zeeshan> people put custom ones
[16:02:40] <zeeshan> they would see it
[16:02:57] <zeeshan> ricers
[16:03:09] <furrywolf> that's like saying when you open your hood you see wires. :P
[16:03:15] <zeeshan> haha
[16:04:09] <furrywolf> could also snug it over to the battery tube instead of against that part of the mouthpiece, like http://imgur.com/YkTzbBH
[16:04:46] <furrywolf> and then fill the hidden hole under the mouthpiece with filler. :P
[16:05:03] <zeeshan> i wish i had a cat40 boring bar holder.
[16:05:04] <zeeshan> :(
[16:06:06] <fenn> get one
[16:06:30] <furrywolf> it's much better to fill a hidden spot under the mouthpiece than a visible spot on the outside
[16:07:58] <furrywolf> although if you have a long and small enough boring bar, that'd be even easier, and no filler needed anywhere.
[16:08:05] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-CAT-40-Shank-Adapters-1-7-8-For-1-1-2-18-Boring-Head-V-FLANGE-CHUCK-NEW-/350267091420?hash=item518d8ba9dc
[16:08:24] <furrywolf> do you have any endmills with flutes long enough to slot rather than bore that cut?
[16:08:36] <zeeshan> ill need to check
[16:08:36] <zeeshan> brb
[16:10:30] <furrywolf> if you do, grind down a groove near the shank, where you don't want to remove the wood, then (carefully!) cut over instead of down.
[16:11:46] <Deejay> gn8
[16:11:58] <furrywolf> cyas
[16:13:53] <furrywolf> not something I'd suggest in metal, but should be ok in plastiwood. :)
[16:14:26] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Tesla-Invader-Style-Wood-Mechanical/dp/B00YK10X4S/
[16:14:30] <renesis> similar
[16:14:45] <renesis> also damn @ 2x 18650
[16:15:08] <furrywolf> yes, that is very, very similar. LOL
[16:15:28] <renesis> looks like he plans to source button from same place
[16:15:44] <renesis> replace 2nd battery with control electronics
[16:17:24] <fenn> so if something pushes the button down when it's in your bag, does the whole thing just catch on fire?
[16:17:39] <renesis> most of them have some sort of safety
[16:18:19] <renesis> on the ego series batteries, which are pretty popular, you hit the button 5 times to lock/unlock
[16:18:49] <renesis> my mechanical mod has a reverse threaded ring around the button which keeps the button from being pressed down
[16:19:08] * furrywolf thinks the best option is to not do drugs
[16:19:22] <renesis> in this specific case, yeah probably
[16:19:32] <renesis> its better than actual cigs tho
[16:20:17] <renesis> im almost out of 250ml of 12mg/ml unflavored juice, stepping down to 6mg/ml
[16:20:54] <renesis> i know guy actually stopped, he said he was doing zeros for a long time before he just felt it was pointless and stopped completely
[16:22:24] <renesis> anyway, my guess is that tesla invader 2 thing is a clone and theres a high end version available
[16:22:41] <renesis> actually yeah it says 'invader 2 style' basically admitting its a clone
[16:22:46] <t12> nicotine helps with fine motor skills
[16:22:49] <t12> chain smoke while machining
[16:23:02] <renesis> cloning is why im not to enthusiastic about getting into this market
[16:23:34] <renesis> like, either youre unsuccessful, or you are and gauranteed to be ripped off at a fraction of cost but with comparable quality
[16:24:59] <furrywolf> or you get ripped off at a fraction of the cost and piss-poor quality, but everyone buys it anyway because it's cheaper. see, for example, china.
[16:25:14] <renesis> china can make decent shit
[16:25:39] <malcom2073> renesis: They don't often export it though :P
[16:25:44] <renesis> they have no reason to, we dont pay thyem enough to make it worth it in most cases
[16:25:56] <renesis> they make computers and hard drives, we dont really
[16:26:37] <renesis> sure we do a better job, we dont have that much work lined up and we charge too much, so we can take all the time we need, relatively speaking
[16:29:04] <renesis> also asians invented ecigs, and the shit coming out of factories there is more advanced electronically than the american shit
[16:29:17] <t12> the fancy e-cig market is hilarious
[16:29:33] <t12> lots of people with hand-brick ecigs hanging around smoking in circles here
[16:29:40] <malcom2073> It is, just ask zeeshan
[16:29:58] <t12> orange county bro-products
[16:30:07] <renesis> i mean cmon, that takes all of 20 seconds to reverse engineer and get into production
[16:33:23] <zeeshan> furrywolf: looks like i'd need to purchase an end mill :P
[16:33:45] <renesis> longer than standard LOC?
[16:34:21] <furrywolf> boring bar is a good idea, and gives you an excuse to purchase reusable tooling. :)
[16:34:25] <zeeshan> lol
[16:34:42] * JT-Shop takes another bite out of c++ classes
[16:35:02] <renesis> are you doing intro or object stuff?
[16:35:21] <JT-Shop> object stuff
[16:35:38] <t12> http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/Invention_of_Cplusplus.shtml
[16:35:43] <renesis> cool
[16:36:24] <furrywolf> you can't fill a lip like that and expect it to last very long. filling under the mouthpiece would be much better. or, your idea of a boring bar, and avoiding filling entirely.
[16:36:54] <renesis> his thing doesnt have a mouth piece
[16:37:48] <zeeshan> furrywolf: youre underestimating epoxy + wood dust
[16:37:55] <zeeshan> its a pain to work with
[16:37:57] <zeeshan> but can be done
[16:38:09] <zeeshan> and why should i makemy life harder
[16:38:14] <zeeshan> when he's ok with this method? :P
[16:38:21] <zeeshan> though if i can easily in the boring bar setup do the same thing
[16:38:23] <zeeshan> i will try
[16:39:12] <furrywolf> you're underestimating the stressed put on lips of things, and you're used to metal and don't know how badly bonding to wood sucks. especially sealed wood. :P
[16:39:26] <zeeshan> we've already done it
[16:39:27] <zeeshan> works fine
[16:39:30] <zeeshan> have you done it?
[16:39:34] <zeeshan> cause it sounds like you havent!
[16:39:39] <furrywolf> yes
[16:39:48] <zeeshan> then your experience doesnt match ours
[16:40:01] <furrywolf> you can fill holes, gouges, etc, but you can't build a self-supporting structure and expect it to last very long.
[16:40:06] <zeeshan> werent you also telling me wood is hard to machine?:P
[16:40:14] <furrywolf> no
[16:40:19] <zeeshan> who was that
[16:40:20] <zeeshan> i want to find out
[16:40:26] <zeeshan> !seen wood is hard to machine
[16:40:26] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-06-02 16:06:38GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying joined chan
[16:40:31] <furrywolf> I'm sure there's logs. :P
[16:41:00] <furrywolf> I often make test cuts in wood, even if the part will be metal, just because it's so easy and quick. :P
[16:41:10] <zeeshan> oh yes i remember you saying that
[16:41:17] <zeeshan> it mighta been mr j.
[16:41:19] <renesis> wood is hard to machine if you need dimensional accuracy
[16:41:22] <furrywolf> and remember I found you the youtube video of someone else quickly machining plastiwood? lol
[16:41:37] <zeeshan> im also sure
[16:41:39] <zeeshan> renesis was saying it was hard to machine
[16:41:44] <zeeshan> but i didnt really listen to him
[16:41:48] <zeeshan> :P
[16:41:52] <renesis> youre not machining wood
[16:41:55] * zeeshan is in DICK mode!!
[16:41:59] <zeeshan> watcch out!
[16:42:01] <t12> little did i know
[16:42:03] <t12> you can machine glass
[16:42:09] <zeeshan> yes you can
[16:42:10] <renesis> and its not hard to cut for as much as you have to account for any stackups involving the wood
[16:42:12] <XXCoder> t12: thats in my plans too
[16:42:16] <renesis> because the shit moved
[16:42:18] <Wolf_> depends on the wood too
[16:42:25] <zeeshan> renesis: i held .001"
[16:42:26] <renesis> *moves
[16:42:27] <zeeshan> in wood without much work
[16:42:31] <zeeshan> not sure what youre talking about
[16:42:35] <renesis> right put it on a shelf and measure it a week later
[16:42:38] <zeeshan> i have many fits on here..
[16:42:48] <zeeshan> why would i do that?
[16:42:50] <JT-Shop> that's a funny interview
[16:42:59] <renesis> and try and make it work in assemblies that reference the wood and each other at multiple points
[16:43:25] <renesis> its drama, leads to a lot of fixturing and adjustment during assembly
[16:43:32] <zeeshan> ??
[16:43:33] <zeeshan> okay
[16:43:34] <renesis> your thing isnt that complicated so prob not a problem
[16:43:43] <zeeshan> isnt complicated?
[16:43:44] <zeeshan> LOL
[16:43:45] <zeeshan> ok
[16:43:48] <renesis> jt-shop: haha yeah
[16:43:51] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqwaij70xwv4h4s/2015-09-07%2014.19.16.jpg?dl=0
[16:43:55] <zeeshan> i dare you to make one
[16:43:58] <zeeshan> ill give you $1000
[16:44:01] <zeeshan> and give you a 1 week
[16:44:02] <renesis> 'i got some of the ideas from x windows'
[16:44:14] <zeeshan> its a pretty good deal
[16:44:20] <furrywolf> if my shoptask wasn't in pieces, I sure could use $1000... :P
[16:44:20] <renesis> why would i want to make one of those
[16:44:27] <zeeshan> because it's not complicated
[16:44:37] <renesis> thats not a good reason
[16:44:42] <furrywolf> but I figure it's even easier to not make any parts and just charge you a consulting fee instead. :)
[16:44:55] <XXCoder> t12: know aht that things for?
[16:44:56] <renesis> and its really not compared to the wood shit i had to work one =\
[16:45:05] <t12> some weird flowcell from old job
[16:45:09] <zeeshan> then what are you going on about renesis?
[16:45:09] <t12> out of quartz i think
[16:45:15] <XXCoder> interesting
[16:46:13] <renesis> thats wood can be a bitch to machine
[16:46:22] <renesis> really its a bitch to design for
[16:46:47] <renesis> http://thetoneking.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/VARIAX+99-640-0205-5.jpg
[16:47:10] <zeeshan> looks pretty easy to machine
[16:47:14] <renesis> pushbutton encoder trim rings are drama, i would have done the whole thing diff
[16:47:16] <zeeshan> its a 2d shape
[16:47:23] <renesis> actually it isnt
[16:47:52] <renesis> but the trim rings are referencing front machined features
[16:48:01] <renesis> and the assembly mounts to the back
[16:48:19] <renesis> and inspection didnt matter because the shit would change after sitting on a shelf for a few days
[16:49:14] <zeeshan> doesnt sound anything to do w/ machining.
[16:49:19] <renesis> it was a stackup issue more than a machining issue
[16:49:22] <zeeshan> sounds like the humidity / temp is affecting the wood
[16:49:32] <renesis> well its wood
[16:49:43] <renesis> thats why its hard to use it even with cnc machining
[16:49:52] <renesis> youre not using wood
[16:50:01] * SpeedEvil ponders linking that paper again.
[16:50:08] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: dont bother
[16:50:11] <zeeshan> i know :P
[16:50:27] <SpeedEvil> In short ~180C steam for 2h stabilises
[16:50:28] <fenn> t12 i saw the titanium version of that part... wonder which one was harder to make
[16:50:41] <t12> glass has problems with the through holes
[16:50:55] <zeeshan> water jet it! :P
[16:51:02] <renesis> speedevil: they dont do that with guitar bodies, theyre already pissed how long it takes
[16:51:24] <renesis> the american built stuff theyd have time, wonder if any shops do that
[16:51:25] <t12> and the square corners
[16:51:46] <t12> lol @ all our ti fixturing
[16:51:55] <t12> protop: dont try and do temp control throguh ti
[16:52:29] <renesis> what do you mean by through ti
[16:52:40] <fenn> it has really low thermal conductivity
[16:52:47] <renesis> like sensing through it?
[16:52:51] <t12> or heating through it
[16:53:07] <renesis> i know its great for domeless nails
[16:53:08] <t12> aluminum is like 10x higher tc
[16:53:26] <renesis> like, top gets all red how and its cool to touch down by the glass fitting
[16:53:35] <renesis> *red hot
[16:54:46] <renesis> speedevil: are you going to link paper or no or what
[16:57:33] <JT-Shop> the guy that put the recently used into gtk file chooser must laugh his ass off every day at how many people he pisses off
[16:58:00] <renesis> when you go to change filename and it open that random seachbox?
[16:58:04] <renesis> omg want to stab
[16:58:29] <JT-Shop> I sent him an email telling him he was a jerk for doing that but he never responded lol
[16:58:42] <Jymmm> Whats wrong with that?
[16:58:58] <JT-Shop> the gtk file chooser is the worst pos ever done
[16:59:00] <renesis> um, the textbox for the filename is highlighted
[16:59:17] <Jymmm> ah
[16:59:18] <renesis> so if i type shit, it should edit the filename, because you know im saving a file and thats what the whole dialog is for
[16:59:20] <JT-Shop> you have to click your ass off just to save a file
[16:59:39] <renesis> i dont even know what random searchbox searches
[16:59:52] <renesis> i just know its a broken idea and its sad how long its persisted
[17:00:19] <JT-Shop> you start typing and you see your in a search box not the file name...
[17:00:42] <renesis> i thought it was a bug but its on purpose
[17:00:54] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7UN3Q_M-yg
[17:00:58] <JT-Shop> you click in the file name and you have to double click to start with something other than untitled as your file name
[17:00:59] <zeeshan> dmg is using autodesk inventor!
[17:01:06] <zeeshan> you can see it at https://youtu.be/W7UN3Q_M-yg?t=48
[17:01:08] <zeeshan> 48 s in
[17:01:09] <zeeshan> :D
[17:01:17] <JT-Shop> yea the nut thought it was an improvement
[17:01:53] <renesis> like i guess it searches current directory
[17:02:20] <renesis> its because his workflow is: search dir for similar filename, click that filename, edit it, click save
[17:02:22] <JT-Shop> it does recent files but they are never the correct place
[17:02:29] <renesis> so to him it saves him a click
[17:02:55] <renesis> he knows hes a genius, and the 5 guys who do the same thing as him all day, they tell him hes a programming god
[17:03:00] <renesis> soit persists
[17:03:10] <JT-Shop> I told him it is shit
[17:03:40] <renesis> it feels like a bug, they need some option like right on the save dialog to disable that forever
[17:04:01] <renesis> ive had this same conversation prob more than 5 years ago
[17:04:06] <JT-Shop> I've seen some patches to fix it but not for wheezy
[17:04:37] <renesis> are they in the repos?
[17:04:55] <renesis> and doesnt fix the issue for windows stuff like gimp
[17:05:14] <JT-Shop> no
[17:05:36] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/%5Bslackware-14-0%5D-%5Bpatch%5D-deselect-recently-used-in-gtk-file-chooser-by-default-4175470290/
[17:06:34] <renesis> woah that sounds like it actually is a bug
[17:07:08] <renesis> like, filename textbox is highlighted but that window isnt even active
[17:07:28] <JT-Shop> http://askubuntu.com/questions/63202/can-i-stop-apps-from-selecting-recently-used-by-default-in-file-chooser-dialog
[17:07:36] <JT-Shop> it's a feature lol
[17:07:40] <renesis> okay so new guess, guys workflow is select fav directory, search for a file, select and edit then save
[17:07:52] <furrywolf> I started using a recent gimp.... the file dialogs are a lot worse than old gimp. the save box always starts where you opened the file, not where you saved the last file, so if you're doing anything batch-like, it pisses you off. and some person with mental issues decided "save as xcf" and "save as formats you actually use" should be two separate dialogs...
[17:08:36] <renesis> i dont disagree with that but it was fucking annoying at first
[17:08:39] <XXCoder> yeah never understood the logic of that
[17:08:49] <renesis> because xcf is a project file
[17:08:58] <JT-Shop> it remains annoying to me
[17:09:04] <renesis> really it should be save project and save file
[17:09:17] <XXCoder> or save and export
[17:09:23] <renesis> but whatever, save an export is usable
[17:09:27] <XXCoder> *save project
[17:09:42] <JT-Shop> I use save as in gimp
[17:09:43] <renesis> a lot of audio programs are the same
[17:09:57] <renesis> right so now its like YOU WANT TO RENAME THE XCF?
[17:10:12] <renesis> and for a long time i was like, eh what xcf
[17:10:41] <renesis> so two extra clicks to stumple into and cancel out of that useless dialog
[17:11:56] <XXCoder> learned something new though, I always thought xcf was weird new picture format they wanted to force on me
[17:12:09] <renesis> no its just the project file
[17:12:32] <renesis> they just decided to throw it in with and act like its an image file, shrug
[17:12:51] <renesis> its like a .psd
[17:13:40] <renesis> so it makes sense that they split the dialogs
[17:14:05] <renesis> thats all debatable tho, the searchbox in the save dialog is a fucking bug
[17:14:32] <JT-Shop> yep
[17:16:03] * JT-Shop wanders inside to start the honey sriracha wings
[17:16:27] <XXCoder> srarcha popcorn here lol
[17:16:35] <JT-Shop> mmmm
[17:33:17] <SpeedEvil> renesis: http://www.google.com/patents/EP0695408A1?cl=en
[17:33:23] <SpeedEvil> nicest patent
[17:33:32] <SpeedEvil> actually describes how something woerks in detail
[17:35:04] <zeeshan-mill> upgrade time
[17:44:12] <zeeshan-mill> thank you to whoever wrote the upgrade intructions
[17:44:16] <zeeshan-mill> very straight forward :P
[17:49:14] <Tom_itx> pretty brain dead simple ehh?
[17:49:22] <zeeshan-mill> yep
[17:49:34] <zeeshan-mill> running surfacing op
[17:49:41] <zeeshan-mill> and seeing if it acts diff
[17:50:11] <Tom_itx> i should be quicker
[17:50:15] <Tom_itx> it
[17:51:12] <zeeshan-mill> LOLOL
[17:51:12] <zeeshan-mill> LOLOL
[17:51:12] <zeeshan-mill> LOLOL
[17:51:19] <zeeshan-mill> holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[17:51:21] <zeeshan-mill> its so much smoother
[17:51:30] <zeeshan-mill> the velocity is pegged to 40ipm
[17:51:34] <zeeshan-mill> instead of jumping all over
[17:51:43] <zeeshan-mill> and audiably and visually its much smoother
[17:51:59] <Tom_itx> so would that be your thank you to the devs?
[17:52:06] <zeeshan-mill> yes
[17:52:07] <zeeshan-mill> :)
[17:52:10] <Tom_itx> heh
[17:52:33] <furrywolf> someone here a couple months ago wrote a test program that showed it did an exact stop between every arc in it no matter what it was set to do... 2.7 fixed it for them too.
[17:53:46] <Wolf_Mill> lol, looks like my timing to build my machine was perfect then :)
[17:54:25] <CaptHindsight> the new TP is so good even my machines that still run Mach are working faster
[17:55:22] <furrywolf> lol
[17:55:31] <zeeshan-mill> is it easy to downgrade to 2.6?
[17:55:37] <zeeshan-mill> i really wanna make a video showing the diff.
[17:55:39] * furrywolf pokes PCW (and pcw_home too!)
[17:55:41] <zeeshan-mill> its very noticeable
[17:55:53] <furrywolf> now that 2.7 is officially out, I need a ethernet board. :)
[17:56:14] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-mill: is this all that is required? http://www.coatssql.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/UpgradeButton1.jpg
[17:56:32] <Wolf_Mill> I havent noticed anything... but I started on 2.7pre :D
[17:57:05] <zeeshan-mill> i cant see the site
[17:57:12] <zeeshan-mill> but you just add a new repository
[17:57:18] <zeeshan-mill> uncheck the old one
[17:57:25] <zeeshan-mill> remove the line about parallel port probing in hal
[17:57:32] <zeeshan-mill> and delete petwatchdog line
[17:57:32] <zeeshan-mill> done
[17:59:01] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, there are a couple config changes to be made
[17:59:06] <Tom_itx> at least from 2.5
[17:59:11] <Tom_itx> not sure about 2.6
[17:59:15] <Tom_itx> i didn't use it
[17:59:49] <zeeshan-mill> i went from 2.6 to 2.7
[18:01:17] <zeeshan-mill> i thought the software was awesome before
[18:01:21] <zeeshan-mill> :P
[18:14:18] <furrywolf> grrrrrrr. I need to get a lawyer.
[18:14:52] <furrywolf> just got another call from the insurance company. the most they're willing to pay me (or so they currently claim) is $360. for six weeks of lost wages and ongoing back pain.
[18:15:31] <Sync> sounds pretty good
[18:17:47] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: wow
[18:18:05] <furrywolf> I don't like lawyers, but I dislike insurance companies even more.
[18:18:24] <renesis> did they already cover the car?
[18:19:49] <furrywolf> no
[18:20:03] <furrywolf> that's a different department. they haven't called back yet. again.
[18:20:25] <renesis> k gl
[18:21:51] <SpeedEvil> How bad is the ongoing pain?
[18:22:42] <furrywolf> I couldn't finish working on my car yesterday because my back hurt too much to bend over.
[18:22:49] <furrywolf> I have done nothing at all today.
[18:23:27] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[18:23:48] <Sync> popped spinal disc?
[18:23:52] <SpeedEvil> Know how that works - hope it gets better relatively promptly.
[18:28:09] <furrywolf> it's been two and a half months. it's not getting better promptly.
[18:28:43] <Sync> that's not too good, been through the tube?
[18:32:28] <furrywolf> ?
[18:32:43] <SpeedEvil> I believe Sync refers to MRI or CT
[18:33:31] <furrywolf> no
[18:33:42] <furrywolf> I don't have health insurance, which means you can't see a doctor unless it's an emergency.
[18:34:25] <cpresser> furrywolf: why dont you have health insurrance? even the US got obamacare now?
[18:34:45] <furrywolf> because obamacare is a joke?
[18:35:44] <Sync> well, then I can only say it is your own fault unfortunately
[18:35:49] <cpresser> i didnt look at obamacare very close; isnt it better then nothing?
[18:35:58] <furrywolf> no
[18:36:26] <furrywolf> Sync: you're right, it's entirely my own fault I'm not rich. and it's entirely my own fault that some rear-ended me when I safely and legally came to a stop, right?
[18:36:36] <cpresser> well, to bad. move to a developed country.
[18:36:55] <cpresser> one that cares for its citicens
[18:37:33] <cpresser> furrywolf: sorry, that might have all sounded not very nice. that wasnt my intention. i hope you get well soon
[18:38:38] <furrywolf> it's not the government's job. it's the insurance company of the idiot that hit me's job.
[18:38:46] <cpresser> on the other hand, i cant understand why a country that rich cant afford general healthcare for everyone
[18:39:06] <furrywolf> she drove in a negligent fashion, and caused injury. she is liable. she got insurance for this liability. they're refusing to do their job.
[18:39:20] <Sync> that's not your fault but not having no insurance is
[18:39:34] <furrywolf> Sync: health insurance is very expensive.
[18:40:15] <Sync> so is being sick and not being able to work
[18:40:24] <cpresser> in most european country health insurrance also pays for lost wages. but they try to claim it back. they will do the fight with the drivers insurrance for you
[18:41:03] <Sync> in germany your employer will still pay you
[18:41:21] <Sync> it is pretty hard for them to kick you out if you are sick
[18:41:46] <furrywolf> Sync: actually, as long as aren't sick more than about half the year, it's still cheaper than health insurance!
[18:41:55] <furrywolf> all obamacare did was make prices go up and doctor selection go down.
[18:42:23] <furrywolf> why would it be the employer's job to take care of you? unless you were injured at work, that's not their job.
[18:42:45] <Sync> because you are not able to show up to work
[18:42:52] <Sync> so he has no right to fire you
[18:43:44] <furrywolf> that's even more broken than obamacare. unless your employer is liable for your injury, why should they be giving you money for not working?
[18:44:09] <Sync> because you have a contract with him
[18:44:17] <furrywolf> the person who caused your injury needs to be responsible for what they did. not your employer, not the government. and if you hurt yourself... then it's your own fault for not having insurance.
[18:44:46] <cpresser> we call this 'socialism'. it works quite well :)
[18:44:54] <Sync> and a working relationship here is not top down
[18:45:21] <Sync> he also cannot fill your position without giving you the chance to come back
[18:46:20] <furrywolf> again, why is it your employer's responsibility to take care of you, if the employer did nothing to cause the problem?
[18:46:36] <Sync> because he employs you
[18:46:48] <furrywolf> that's not an answer. lol
[18:46:50] <Sync> it is
[18:47:01] <Sync> it has nothing to do with him being nice or whatever
[18:47:03] <furrywolf> that sounds like some throwback to feudal lords and vassels...
[18:47:04] <Sync> it is just the law
[18:47:29] <Sync> the reason being is that it makes more economical sense to keep you employed until you are fit to work again
[18:47:30] <renesis> why should sick days be allowed for?
[18:47:50] <furrywolf> that's just as bad. that's making someone who is not responsible for anything suffer. that's not fair to them.
[18:47:51] <Sync> and generate value for him
[18:48:06] <furrywolf> they did nothing wrong, but they're going to be forced to suffer anyway?
[18:48:11] <Sync> he does not suffer
[18:48:31] <furrywolf> losing money is suffering.
[18:48:37] <cpresser> together with social pressure to get well soon and return to work, this system does indeed work fine.
[18:48:40] <Sync> that's the risk of business
[18:48:45] <renesis> only if you desire money
[18:48:56] <cpresser> furrywolf: its part of the overall calculation. just factor those sick-days in
[18:48:56] <renesis> let go of desire
[18:49:15] <Wolf_Mill> proably part of the reason most europen goods are so fucking expensive
[18:49:26] <Sync> furrywolf: another fun fact
[18:49:32] <Sync> if I turn sick on vacation
[18:49:36] <Sync> and I see the doctor
[18:49:45] <Sync> I get the vacation days back!
[18:49:46] <renesis> you get vacation time back?
[18:49:48] <renesis> noice
[18:50:08] <Sync> which is the only way it should work
[18:50:18] <cpresser> in reality few people do that. some even take vaction days when they are sick, so they done generate sick-days.
[18:50:22] <furrywolf> sounds like germany is a really bad place to own a business.
[18:50:27] <Sync> because vacation is there for me to regain my energy
[18:50:28] <Wolf_Mill> hard work is also illegal in most of europe too right?
[18:50:29] <cpresser> but that depends on the job role you are in
[18:50:41] <Sync> Wolf_Mill: the employer has to force you to work your hours
[18:50:49] <Sync> if you grossly overwork they will need to fire you
[18:51:07] <Sync> (in reality that only works in union trades)
[18:51:18] <Sync> why furrywolf?
[18:51:36] <furrywolf> because you get randomly screwed for things that aren't your fault in any way?
[18:51:45] <Sync> you don't get randomly screwed
[18:51:52] <furrywolf> that's just as bad as me getting screwed because someone else can't drive safely.
[18:52:08] <Wolf_Mill> furrywolf: companys just roll those costs in to their figures
[18:52:12] <Sync> well you're mostly getting screwed because you do not have health insurance
[18:52:21] <cpresser> actually small companies can get in trouble when people get sick more than average. but for a large cooperation this is no problem. on average there are xy% people on sick leave. just factor that in
[18:52:33] <furrywolf> Wolf_Mill: I own a company. I assure you that money does NOT grow on trees.
[18:53:14] <renesis> because cotton is a bush, not a tree
[18:53:14] <Wolf_Mill> why ya think parts for VW or any other german car cost 5x more then everyone elses
[18:53:26] <cpresser> furrywolf: thats why i dont have employes. when 2 of your 2 employes are sick, this is really an issue. but 1k out of 15k people, thats fine :)
[18:53:26] <renesis> because theyre awesome
[18:53:33] <Sync> because you are on the other side of the pond Wolf_Mill
[18:53:45] <cpresser> Wolf_Mill: more safety regulations
[18:53:59] <roycroft> no, it grows on tall, skinny plants that have serrated leaves
[18:54:11] <Sync> also, you as the employer pay half of my health insurance!
[18:54:18] <furrywolf> if your plants are tall and skinny, you need more lights.
[18:54:21] <Sync> AND part of my retirement fond
[18:54:25] <roycroft> unless you're making rope
[18:55:27] <Sync> it actually is kinda the same here in germany
[18:55:31] <Sync> if I have a crash
[18:55:40] <Sync> and have to seek medical attention, my insurance will cover it
[18:55:51] <Sync> but then get their money back from the other persons liability insurance
[18:55:53] <roycroft> see, the way it works here is like this:
[18:56:03] <roycroft> you (or your employer) pays for insurance
[18:56:05] <roycroft> then you get hurt
[18:56:12] <roycroft> so you file a claim with the insurance company
[18:56:14] <roycroft> they deny it
[18:56:29] <roycroft> but that's fine, because the whole purpose of insurance is for the insurance company to make money
[18:56:46] <roycroft> so you get stuck with inflated medical bills ($15.00 for a band-aid)
[18:56:50] <roycroft> and file for bankruptcy
[18:57:04] <Sync> no, it is to safeguard people from expenses they cannot cover
[18:57:14] <roycroft> no, it's for the insurance companies to profit
[18:57:22] <roycroft> you obviously don't understand insurance
[18:57:34] <Sync> that they are making money is a nice touce
[18:57:34] <furrywolf> inflated is an understatement. a few xrays cost $2000 at the local hospital.
[18:57:37] <Sync> but they shouldn't
[18:57:37] <cpresser> roycroft: most european countrys have public insurrances. they arent allowed to make money
[18:57:41] <renesis> i think most of the big companies are public
[18:57:43] <Sync> ~touch
[18:57:50] <renesis> so by law their #1 goal is making money
[18:57:56] <renesis> even if it means bending laws
[18:58:04] <renesis> legally bound to do it
[18:58:25] <Sync> sure but in germany they cannot really do anything with their profits
[18:58:38] <Sync> some actually decrease their rates because of that
[18:58:51] <roycroft> then there's the case like mine
[18:58:55] <roycroft> my boss paid for my insurance
[18:59:02] <renesis> my guess is our system is more fucked because facists
[18:59:21] <roycroft> but when i had an accident and racked up $12k in bills, i found out that he had cancelled my insurance two weeks earlier without telling me
[18:59:26] <furrywolf> Fees:
[18:59:26] <furrywolf> Hourly ($200-300/hour)
[18:59:28] <furrywolf> I hate lawyers.
[18:59:29] <Wolf_Mill> seems the trend here is hospitals owned by the health insurance companys...
[18:59:31] <roycroft> and the reason he cancelled it was because i "wasn't using it"
[18:59:43] <renesis> =(
[18:59:50] <renesis> so did he cover the bill?
[18:59:54] <roycroft> no, of course not
[19:00:01] <roycroft> that was in 2010
[19:00:05] <renesis> so you are proper fucked?
[19:00:05] <roycroft> i almost have all the bills paid off
[19:00:12] <Sync> in that case your last insurance would have paid here
[19:00:19] <renesis> did it go to collections and get reducers or you paid full?
[19:00:23] <furrywolf> you forgot one of your steps. <roycroft> and file for bankruptcy
[19:00:27] <renesis> *reduced
[19:00:42] <roycroft> sadly, i'm unamerican
[19:00:44] <roycroft> i have a conscience
[19:00:55] <roycroft> and even though i know i was being ripped off, i felt an obligation to pay my bills
[19:01:02] <renesis> hardcore
[19:01:21] <roycroft> besides, $12k isn't enough money to bother with bankruptcy
[19:01:25] <renesis> i paid $500 for some stitches
[19:01:27] <roycroft> it would probably cost me half that just to file
[19:01:30] <renesis> they did a really good job
[19:01:36] <renesis> now i has health insurance =(
[19:01:40] <Sync> I sure as hell would not have liked to pay the bill when I got ran over snowboarding
[19:01:45] <roycroft> not the court filing fee, but all the attendant legal expenses
[19:02:01] <Sync> as that was over 45k€
[19:02:25] <roycroft> besides, bankruptcy is almost impossible to file these days unless you're really rich
[19:02:51] <roycroft> and if you're rich you set up a trust and transfer all your assets to that, so when you file bankruptcy all you do is discharge your debts
[19:03:05] <Sync> so insurance has already paid off for me for ~30 years
[19:03:08] <roycroft> your creditors get nothing because all your assets are protected by the trust
[19:03:58] <roycroft> all that setting up a trust and paying for the bankruptcy attornies costs a lot of money though
[19:04:12] <Valen> I was hospitalised with a resting heart rate of 160 after a reaction to some antihistamine medication I was given the day before (in hospital on a separate ER admission for hives on my face) no out of pocket. I love living in australia sometimes
[19:04:24] <Sync> but the heli flight was nice
[19:04:24] <zeeshan> i just got one comment for this whole conversation you guys are having
[19:04:30] <roycroft> so if you're rich and you're going to file for bankruptcy you need to get more in debt first, so you can have some extra free assets in the trust that you can use to pay your attorneys' fees and the like
[19:04:31] <zeeshan> canada is the best country in the world
[19:04:33] <zeeshan> :-)
[19:04:36] <Sync> so is germoney zeeshan
[19:04:49] <zeeshan> what
[19:04:52] <Valen> wifey fell in the tub landed on her wrist, at midnight, ER visit, xrays, plaster etc (no break but they still suspected it)
[19:05:03] <zeeshan> germany is the country that killed an entire population of jews
[19:05:12] <roycroft> yeah, germany has that socialist health care system that consists of private medical practies and private insurance companies
[19:05:34] <cpresser> USA is the country that killed an etire population of indians
[19:05:34] <Sync> it happens to the best
[19:05:40] <roycroft> it's socialist because everybody participates and is treated equally
[19:05:50] <zeeshan> cpresser indians got conquered
[19:05:55] <roycroft> we killed our indians with blankets
[19:05:59] <cpresser> zeeshan: oh, sorry :)
[19:06:02] <roycroft> germans killed the jews with showers
[19:06:10] <roycroft> i'm not sure which is worse
[19:06:21] <zeeshan> like i said canada > *!!!
[19:06:21] <zeeshan> :D
[19:06:25] <Sync> we also had anthrax laced blankets iirc
[19:06:36] <cpresser> at least we dont name our attack helicopters after polulations we erased in the past
[19:06:41] <roycroft> you people kill outlanders with politeness, zeeshan
[19:06:48] <roycroft> it drives folks insane to the point that they just drop dead
[19:06:51] <zeeshan> we helped the slaves
[19:06:53] <Sync> well that obviously can't be true zeeshan, as you don't get residential 3 phase
[19:07:00] <zeeshan> i'd take no 3 phase
[19:07:05] <zeeshan> over having a history of holocast
[19:07:06] <zeeshan> anyday.
[19:07:16] <zeeshan> :D
[19:07:20] <roycroft> you can fix the three phase problem with a small piece of equipment
[19:07:24] <roycroft> you can't fix the holocaust
[19:07:48] <zeeshan> i would never live in a country with this kind of past
[19:07:52] <zeeshan> unless a couple centuries have passed
[19:08:15] <furrywolf> how's those first nations people doing, zeeshan?
[19:08:24] <roycroft> i think enough time has passed in germany that it should not be judged negatively now
[19:08:40] <zeeshan> furrywolf: they got 2 provinces last time i checked
[19:08:41] <zeeshan> :)
[19:08:43] <roycroft> there are hardly any germans left who were alive during the holocaust
[19:08:49] <zeeshan> or territories
[19:09:00] <zeeshan> roycroft: the lineage is still there
[19:09:03] <roycroft> territories
[19:09:13] <roycroft> wtf does that mean?
[19:09:18] <zeeshan> its the same reason i'd never live in usa
[19:09:45] <roycroft> i think there is a greater number per capita of neo-nazis/skinheads in the us than in germany
[19:09:52] <roycroft> possibly more per capita in denmark than in germany
[19:10:01] <roycroft> and almsot certainly more in austria than in germany
[19:10:16] <roycroft> but in all those cases it's a tiny tiny fraction of the population
[19:10:32] <cradek> there are a lot of WW2 vets left, and there are a huge number of people who were ALIVE during the war. they're not that terribly old.
[19:10:48] <roycroft> sorry, but it's not right to punish a people for something that happened two generations ago
[19:11:36] <roycroft> any vets are in their 90s now
[19:11:41] <cradek> yep
[19:11:41] <roycroft> that's a tiny fraction of the population
[19:11:48] <cpresser> unfortunately there are way to much young nazis in germany :/
[19:11:55] <furrywolf> the only WW2 vet I know recently passed away at age 89.
[19:12:26] <roycroft> i have issues with the way the german government is treating greece at the moment
[19:12:37] <roycroft> but i have no residual issues with germans regarding the war and the holocaust
[19:12:56] <cpresser> most people are well aware of the history. we have memorials _everywhere_ . those are in front of most houses jews used to live in: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Stolpersteine_Osnabr%C3%BCck,_Kollegienwall,_2008.jpg
[19:13:12] <roycroft> people should be aware
[19:13:18] <roycroft> i'm not suggesting that anyone forget what happened
[19:13:32] <roycroft> but don't hold the current generation responsible for what their grandparents did
[19:13:59] <cpresser> roycroft: unfortunately way to much did forget: http://polpix.sueddeutsche.com/bild/1.1645565.1365596481/860x860/rechtsradikale-demonstration-weiden.jpg
[19:14:20] <Sync> cpresser: those are very much outnumbered
[19:14:22] <Valen> roycroft: don't think zeeshan represents anybody but zeeshan ;-P
[19:14:23] <furrywolf> if I compare insurance companies to hitler, will this conversation end? :P
[19:14:27] * roycroft should probably head back to the shop and make a jig
[19:14:35] <Sync> probably not furrywolf
[19:14:47] <Valen> furrywolf: you need to say something controversial is related to hitler
[19:14:47] <roycroft> no, furrywolf
[19:14:59] <roycroft> since we're not talking about insurance any more
[19:15:03] <roycroft> we're talking about nazis
[19:15:10] <Valen> I mean in general that'd probably just get a "seems legit"
[19:15:14] <roycroft> to properly invoke godwin you have to compare hitler to hitler
[19:15:47] <roycroft> i always like that mister hilter
[19:15:51] <roycroft> he seems like a nice man
[19:16:03] <roycroft> but i'm not sure about those boncentration bamps he talks about
[19:17:16] <Valen> when I rule the world I'll mandate insurance companies all be non profit
[19:17:26] <cpresser> germans are making fun of hitler... we even have movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q_oh9wrJv0
[19:17:33] <roycroft> we'll get a single payer system yet
[19:17:45] <roycroft> i was unhappy with the affordable care act at first
[19:17:49] <roycroft> i still am
[19:17:57] <furrywolf> single payer... you pay everything, no one else helps at all? :P
[19:18:05] <roycroft> but i think it was a necessary step towards the goal of single payer
[19:18:27] <roycroft> it shifted the equation fundamentally, which has never been done before here
[19:18:53] <roycroft> it defined health care as both a right and a responsibility
[19:19:26] <roycroft> and now we can have the arguments about how to ensure that people are responsible about it
[19:20:05] <furrywolf> and yet it did none of those things. we have the exact same commercial insurance companies we had before... except now they charge more, and it's harder to find a doctor.
[19:20:19] <roycroft> except they don't charge more
[19:20:33] <cradek> and the subsidies have given millions of people health care they didn't have before
[19:20:39] <roycroft> at least, the rate of increase in insurance rates is not going up at the same pace (well beyond the rate of inflation) as it was
[19:20:49] <roycroft> except they did have the health care before
[19:20:52] <roycroft> but it was 10x as expensive
[19:20:59] <roycroft> because they would have to go to the er for a cold
[19:21:03] <furrywolf> and we don't have healthcare now either.
[19:21:04] <roycroft> now they can go to a doctor
[19:21:22] <roycroft> a $185 office visit instead of a $1500 er visit
[19:21:27] <cradek> roycroft: ok, healthcare without an automatic bankruptcy filing afterward
[19:21:31] <roycroft> we've been subsidizing people forever
[19:21:34] <furrywolf> "affordable" is still a substantial portion of most people's wages. and the coverage is utter crap, with stupidly high deductables, to make sure you need to be rich anyway.
[19:21:39] <roycroft> well, since the early 20th century
[19:21:58] <roycroft> furrywolf: yes, and now we can start talking about how to fix that stuff
[19:22:01] <cradek> yeah can I vote for the ghost of FDR this time around?
[19:22:17] <roycroft> the next step will be for a medicare for everyone option
[19:22:25] <roycroft> you can choose private insurance or medicare
[19:22:44] <roycroft> and if the private insurance companies contiue to rape people they will eventually go out of business and everyone will have medicare
[19:22:46] <furrywolf> a non-profit healthcare system is the only way I can think of. part of the problem is hospitals/doctors simply charge way, way too much.
[19:22:55] <furrywolf> as I said, I got a few x-rays, and the bill is a few bucks under $2000.
[19:23:07] <furrywolf> that's a rate of about $2000 an hour.
[19:23:21] <roycroft> the other piece to this is that the republicans in the congress need to stop blocking legislative attempts to allow medicare to negotiate with care providers and pharmaceutical companies
[19:23:42] <roycroft> here's the deal with that
[19:23:49] <roycroft> that most people don't know
[19:24:05] <roycroft> health care providers just make all those costs up
[19:24:11] <roycroft> they do have an internal, private cost schedule
[19:24:16] <roycroft> but it's not based at all on reality
[19:24:35] <roycroft> they charge you $2000 for x-rays because someone wrote down that number
[19:24:42] <Valen> to some extent its based on the % of people who will actually pay
[19:24:52] <Valen> with the others going bankrupt or just skipping out
[19:24:54] <roycroft> private insurance companies negotiate a rate for that with the care providers
[19:25:06] <roycroft> so an insurance company will pay $250 for that same x-ray
[19:25:14] <roycroft> if you have insurance you're fine
[19:25:19] <roycroft> if not you pay the made-up number
[19:26:24] <roycroft> and when you get hit in the head by a drone that was trying to deliver pizza to your neighbor and you need head x-rays and lacerations, you don't have the luxury of shopping around or negotiating price
[19:26:34] <roycroft> you call the ambulance, you get fixed up, and you pay whatever they charge you
[19:27:13] <roycroft> i went to a clinic once and i did my due diligence
[19:27:26] <roycroft> i had pneumonia and was literally deathly ill
[19:27:45] <zeeshan> Valen: you know me too well :P
[19:27:50] <roycroft> but i not only went online and ensured that the urgent care facility was in network with my insurance company, i called them before going there to confirm it again
[19:27:58] <roycroft> they fixed me up
[19:28:03] <roycroft> i submitted my claim
[19:28:05] <zeeshan> furrywolf: if you dont like the cost of xrays
[19:28:07] <roycroft> it was denied
[19:28:07] <zeeshan> don't get em done!
[19:28:33] <roycroft> it turns out the doctor who was in charge of signing all the paperwork that night (she was not even at that clinic - she was at a different office) had dropped out of the network two weeks earlier
[19:29:01] <roycroft> fortunately the clinic agreed, after a long series of back and forths, to charge me the in-network rate for everything
[19:29:09] <zeeshan> furrywolf: want an xray machine?
[19:29:13] <zeeshan> i got 10+
[19:29:21] <zeeshan> you can do your own xrays
[19:29:26] <zeeshan> but youll be limited to about a 4" diameter
[19:29:33] <cradek> I bet lots of vet offices have retired machines
[19:29:43] <roycroft> but i complained to the state insurance department and they told me that when i'm sick i should just go wherever i need to go and i should not worry about whether the office is in network or out of network
[19:29:49] <zeeshan> cradek yes
[19:29:56] <roycroft> if we had a single payer system i would not worry about such things
[19:29:57] <zeeshan> i helped my dad install his xray system
[19:30:03] <zeeshan> we had a certification after
[19:30:08] <roycroft> i would just go where i need to go and know it will be taken care of
[19:30:10] <zeeshan> really you just gotta set the exposure right
[19:30:20] * roycroft does head back out to the shop on that note
[19:30:39] <Sync> I'll take a xray source zeeshan
[19:30:50] <Sync> I have hamamatsu flat panels sensor
[19:30:55] <Sync> ~s
[19:31:04] <zeeshan> nice
[19:31:25] <zeeshan> man if you can make xray detectors paper thick
[19:31:28] <zeeshan> you could get really rich
[19:31:34] <zeeshan> (for dental xrays)
[19:31:40] <Sync> it is called film
[19:31:45] <zeeshan> digital xrays
[19:31:47] <zeeshan> not film
[19:31:52] <Sync> :3
[19:31:57] <Sync> yeah
[19:31:58] <zeeshan> i think only third world countries use film now
[19:32:05] <zeeshan> up here dentistry is private
[19:32:07] <cradek> heh my dentist does
[19:32:10] <Sync> oh not really
[19:32:15] <zeeshan> so if you go to a dentist that doesnt have a digital xray
[19:32:17] <zeeshan> you'll lose
[19:32:24] <zeeshan> so most have digital now
[19:32:37] <zeeshan> also the radiation exposure for digital is much less
[19:32:41] <Sync> it all depends on the dentist here
[19:32:44] <Sync> well pff
[19:32:59] <Sync> the dose used to be so high that your skin would fall off 2 days after
[19:33:03] <zeeshan> cradek youre paying him
[19:33:07] <zeeshan> go to someone w/ a digital
[19:33:07] <zeeshan> :D
[19:33:20] <Sync> so that tiny bit of radiation, I don't care
[19:33:26] <zeeshan> thats you
[19:33:29] <zeeshan> most people care
[19:33:35] <Sync> and I'm not getting panoramic xrays everyday
[19:33:53] <Sync> wat? nobody really cares here
[19:34:03] <Sync> even though you get a "Röntgenpass"
[19:34:07] <zeeshan> i didnt know you knew the general populations idea
[19:34:13] <XXCoder> just completed installing linuxcnc on my old pc :)
[19:34:15] <zeeshan> my dad's been a dentist for 40 years
[19:34:18] <XXCoder> boy is latency MUCH lower lol
[19:34:22] <zeeshan> this is his experience im citing
[19:34:27] <Sync> well I know a few xray techs
[19:34:40] <Sync> and they say that most people don't really care anymore
[19:34:49] <jdh> I know a guy on the internettes who's father is a dentist
[19:34:49] <zeeshan> tell me the logic that you have
[19:34:59] <XXCoder> it was over 100k for base on laptop, on pc its barely over 10k
[19:35:00] <zeeshan> we know radiation is a direct cause of cancer
[19:35:04] <zeeshan> radiation exposure
[19:35:11] <XXCoder> xray isnt fun stuff
[19:35:15] <zeeshan> if you have a method to minimize that exposure and get the same result
[19:35:21] <zeeshan> why the heck would you expose yourself to more radiation?
[19:35:25] <zeeshan> where is the logic in that?
[19:35:33] <Sync> because it is statistically irrelevant
[19:35:44] <zeeshan> wow
[19:35:48] <zeeshan> you really dont get it
[19:36:06] <Sync> I do, but for a single dental xray it simply does not matter
[19:36:21] <Sync> there is no siginificant change in the probability to get cancer
[19:36:29] <zeeshan> stats is one thing
[19:36:33] <Sync> I actually work in a radiation controlled environment
[19:36:38] <zeeshan> the other is you just exposued yourself to more radiation
[19:36:44] <zeeshan> for no good reason
[19:36:51] <zeeshan> only because your equipment is some old ass shit
[19:37:32] * furrywolf wonders how much radiation one gets on a single redeye flight compares to a set of x-rays.
[19:38:04] <Valen> the digital sensors they use for my dogs dental xrays are pretty small
[19:38:17] <Valen> few mm thick I believe
[19:38:28] <furrywolf> ... dog... dental xrays?
[19:38:33] <Sync> zeeshan: if I'm exposed to 7mSv instead of 6mSv
[19:38:36] <Sync> there is no difference
[19:38:47] <Sync> or no significant difference
[19:38:47] <furrywolf> I can't afford a dentist at all, and you're taking your dog to one?
[19:39:08] <renesis> i need to get my wisdom teeth removed, dont have dental insurance
[19:39:10] <XXCoder> furrywolf: little bit more on case of xrays.
[19:39:24] <Valen> we budget about $1000 for taking dog to vet dental
[19:39:25] <zeeshan> Sync: you have 2 identical machines, one goes at 200ipm
[19:39:26] <XXCoder> lemme find that xkcd chart
[19:39:27] <zeeshan> the other goes at 201 ipm
[19:39:30] <zeeshan> which one would you pick?
[19:39:31] <Tom_itx> renesis, use the string n door method
[19:39:45] <renesis> they never popped out its not that simple
[19:39:45] <jdh> 200
[19:39:51] <XXCoder> furrywolf: https://xkcd.com/radiation/
[19:39:54] <zeeshan> hush jdh
[19:39:54] <zeeshan> :P
[19:39:55] <XXCoder> guys check that site too
[19:39:57] <jdh> someone fucked up on the 201
[19:40:00] <zeeshan> lol
[19:40:01] <Sync> it does not really work that way zeeshan
[19:40:08] <cradek> zeeshan: funny story. I switched dentists because my previous one got a "new system" and lost all their old x-rays and wanted to charge me to re-take them. so I wasn't unhappy to find that the new one uses film and puts it in a filing cabinet.
[19:40:09] <Valen> its about $400 for the anesthetic, then they find $400 worth of stuff to do, and there are extras for antibiotics and such
[19:40:18] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I was wrong, flight gives more radation
[19:40:42] <XXCoder> which is quite a lot less than living at building made from stone, brick or concrete
[19:40:46] <zeeshan> cradek: that sucks
[19:40:54] <Sync> furrywolf: another fact, you get 60% off your major rework if you visit the dentist yearly here
[19:40:54] <jdh> I have to wear a dosimeter all day at work
[19:41:01] <Sync> epoxy fillings are free
[19:41:02] <zeeshan> why jdh
[19:41:18] <jdh> I work in a nuclear facility
[19:41:27] <zeeshan> i thought you worked for lincoln electric
[19:41:28] <zeeshan> ?!?!
[19:41:29] <zeeshan> :P
[19:41:50] <XXCoder> well nuclear is one of ways to make elctricity, zeeshan
[19:41:54] <Sync> luckily we only have stray radiation emitters
[19:42:04] <zeeshan> XXCoder: really? :P
[19:42:12] <XXCoder> surpise! lol
[19:42:31] <Valen> jdh: film or electronic?
[19:42:43] <jdh> TLD
[19:43:05] <jdh> electronic for some areas or for visitors
[19:43:27] <Sync> ah yeah
[19:43:37] <Sync> I only have to wear a fingerring when we change viewports
[19:43:45] <Valen> xray the snot out of it, see if the techs who process it are paying attention
[19:43:54] <Sync> ^
[19:44:32] <Sync> another thing, if you go over your maximum allowed dose your employer cannot fire you :D
[19:44:46] <XXCoder> I remember one software flaw on xray machine - if tech drew block square block wrong way it would block other way than expected
[19:44:53] <XXCoder> exposing patent with much more xray
[19:44:53] <Wolf_Mill> too many numbers.. http://i.imgur.com/l7KoMTm.jpg
[19:45:12] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: That's awesome
[19:45:22] <Sync> that was a racecondition in the software XXCoder
[19:45:24] <jdh> I'd go with higher contrast lables
[19:45:25] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: awesome but same time why not lcd screen?
[19:45:45] <zeeshan> Wolf_Mill: looking good :D
[19:45:56] <furrywolf> are all three axes on the same power supply? :P
[19:46:06] <Wolf_Mill> cause thats only $15 in led current/volt meters lol
[19:46:07] <XXCoder> jdh: can paint em on then wipe flat surface, leaving nice colors. its clearly still work on progress.
[19:46:30] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: true I suppose lol
[19:46:39] <Valen> where do you set the time co-ordinates Wolf_Mill?
[19:46:42] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, yeah all 3 axis are on the same psu
[19:46:46] <Sync> yeah those things are cheap
[19:46:56] <furrywolf> so having three voltmeters is to make it look shiny? :P
[19:47:11] <jdh> shiny is my favorite color
[19:47:39] <Wolf_Mill> oddly when I was bench testing I had about 3v of drop from one of the wires to the drivers
[19:48:16] <furrywolf> that means you're doing something wrong.
[19:48:59] <Valen> perhaps look at doing this on the cover to make the wording stand out https://youtu.be/qpy5O0b7cL8?t=403
[19:50:13] <Valen> or just rattle can and wet and dry ;->
[19:50:36] <Wolf_Mill> I could color fill them, but I really dont care lol
[19:50:43] <Valen> that guy has a whole bunch of cool videos btw
[19:50:50] <Valen> not cnc though
[19:50:55] <Valen> but well made videos
[19:51:34] <furrywolf> I plan on having a couple LEDs on my control box. :P
[19:51:35] <Wolf_Mill> guys do the samething with crayons to the roll marks on guns
[19:51:39] <furrywolf> single leds. not displays.
[19:55:53] <furrywolf> I think about 99% of the lawyer reviews I'm finding online are fake.
[19:55:59] <furrywolf> The other 1% are blank.
[19:56:37] <furrywolf> Somehow they're all perfectly written, without a single typo or grammatical error, and all make the lawyers sound like saints.
[19:59:35] <malcom2073> Lawyers that lie? Nahhhh
[20:00:08] <zeeshan> .045 , .0625
[20:02:37] <XXCoder> how do you know lawyer is lying?
[20:02:40] <XXCoder> lips is moving.
[20:04:53] <XXCoder> what that is dumb http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/canadian-candidate-caught-urinating-coffee-mug-article-1.2350811
[20:07:05] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/7BdejLG6SU4 video if curious
[20:15:09] <zeeshan> lol
[20:15:10] <zeeshan> gross
[20:15:21] <XXCoder> yeah
[20:15:27] <XXCoder> he says he normally dont do it
[20:15:37] <XXCoder> well ingerity is what you do when youre alone
[20:16:31] <zeeshan> hmm
[20:19:18] <Wolf_Mill> I feel like I need a bigger bench...
[20:19:25] <XXCoder> everyone says that
[20:19:39] <XXCoder> even if that person has one so big he or she can't see other end
[20:20:47] <Wolf_Mill> really, I just need a cart for my machinist boxes
[20:21:27] <XXCoder> in least npobody peed on your bench... so far we know. lol
[20:21:59] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[20:23:12] <XXCoder> apparently that church is now getting a fig leaf. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fig-leaf-coming-soon-church-replies-to-penisshaped-comments-after-picture-goes-viral-8915551.html
[20:23:24] <XXCoder> always found the dick building funny
[20:23:31] <XXCoder> expecially its stated usage
[20:39:04] <XXCoder> lot of work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpy5O0b7cL8&feature=youtu.be&t=403
[20:39:08] <XXCoder> but damn it looks good.
[20:42:55] <renesis> i have that dab torch
[20:45:46] <XXCoder> watching poart 10 now
[20:45:46] <XXCoder> that guy is skilled.
[20:46:33] <renesis> wonder where to get that engravers shellac wax stick
[20:48:21] <XXCoder> unno but he says it melts easily under little heat
[20:48:37] <Wolf_Mill> crayon
[20:48:42] <renesis> yeah was pretty neat, i have engraving stuff already
[20:48:53] <renesis> crayon not hard enough at room temp
[20:49:16] <renesis> ha @ super glue for work holding
[20:49:24] <renesis> watchmakers are cool
[20:50:37] <XXCoder> wouldnt it mean it would melt in hot day? or "little heat" is way hotter than day can be?
[20:50:57] <renesis> a little heat is a butane torch
[20:51:05] <renesis> so prob close to 1000F
[20:51:13] <XXCoder> interesting
[20:51:20] <XXCoder> so its not melting in day anytime soon.,
[20:51:24] <cradek> I've hard-soldered gold and silver (hardest solder) with a tiny butane torch like that
[20:51:59] <renesis> i guess thats how a lot of jewelry happens
[20:52:03] <cradek> you can get small things to a bright red very easily
[20:52:26] <cradek> I was surprised at first by how well it worked
[20:52:28] <renesis> that specific torch will get titanium to glow red in well under a minute
[20:52:41] <cradek> I'd only used oxy/acetylene before
[20:53:19] <roycroft> there are three types of silver solder alloys that jewelers usually use, with about 50 degrees f difference in the melting point of each
[20:53:23] <renesis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Ai5F8O3iI&t=4m
[20:53:26] <renesis> omg so sexy
[20:53:29] <roycroft> when you start assembling a piece you use the high temp solder
[20:53:44] <roycroft> you add the next component(s) on with the medium temp solder
[20:53:51] <renesis> cool
[20:53:54] <XXCoder> weird
[20:53:56] <roycroft> and finish with the low temp solder, if you need that many assemblies
[20:54:01] <XXCoder> sudden network issues
[20:54:06] <roycroft> the point being to avoid melting what you already soldered
[20:54:23] <roycroft> i use an acetylene-air torch for jewelery type stuff
[20:55:05] <roycroft> i think there may be more than three alloys that are used, but most jewelers have the three
[20:55:31] <cradek> I've seen super-easy but the cooler ones are crappier and crappier looking
[20:55:41] <roycroft> i'm not a jeweler, but i've taken jewelerymaking classes, as that skill set can be useful in other disciplines
[20:55:47] <cradek> totally
[20:57:04] <cradek> huh, he uses heat to unsuperglue
[20:57:18] <cradek> I throw the work in acetone and let it soak. come back later and it's detached
[20:57:25] <renesis> def works, smells bad
[20:57:41] <renesis> have to solder through CA sometimes =\
[20:57:59] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/lens-silly-fixturing.jpg
[20:58:13] <renesis> nice
[20:58:30] <cradek> that's superglue, glass to 123 blocks
[20:58:51] <roycroft> acetone removes super glue just fine
[20:59:04] <XXCoder> network finally stabilized now can finish video lol
[20:59:07] <renesis> thats how i get it off my hands at work
[20:59:14] <roycroft> i've been reading about a guy who uses superglue as finish on wood
[20:59:36] <renesis> sounds expensive
[20:59:42] <XXCoder> bezel is awesome looking
[20:59:43] <roycroft> he makes sgian dubhs
[20:59:46] <roycroft> with wooden handles
[21:00:07] <roycroft> he covers the handle with superglue in 2-3 coats, then buffs it out
[21:00:28] <roycroft> it is expensive, but a sgian dubh handle is pretty small
[21:00:32] <renesis> i wouldnt think that feels nice
[21:00:44] <roycroft> he claims it's very smooth and shiny
[21:00:46] <XXCoder> unless sanded down I guess
[21:00:48] <roycroft> i should think it would feel sticky
[21:00:56] <XXCoder> never did that before so dunno lol
[21:00:57] <roycroft> i said he buffs it out
[21:01:05] <roycroft> it's certainly not very traditional
[21:01:15] <roycroft> i don't think the jacobites had superglue
[21:01:21] <renesis> ha
[21:45:21] <Wolf_Mill> never thought that choosing where to put limit switches would be such a pain in the ass
[21:45:44] <XXCoder> thats why mines not in yet eiher
[21:45:46] <XXCoder> not easy
[21:46:51] <Wolf_Mill> I thought I had it figured out, then dawned on me having inductive prox sensors facing up might be a bad idea
[22:16:24] <XXCoder> wow
[22:16:30] <XXCoder> heaven gate site is still up
[22:16:48] <XXCoder> its nearly 20 years old
[22:17:16] <XXCoder> wonder why as most members are dead for almost as long
[22:17:43] <roycroft> heaven is a place where nothing ever happens
[22:20:10] <XXCoder> man that article about dead websites is funny
[22:20:22] <XXCoder> apparently wild wild west website is still up
[22:20:35] <XXCoder> considering it bombed so hard, its bit surpising they left it up
[22:22:16] <XXCoder> hahha this is just.. lol
[22:22:16] <XXCoder> http://home.mcom.com/home/welcome.html
[22:22:30] <XXCoder> it actually explains how to use web
[22:22:32] <XXCoder> its that old
[22:23:10] <XXCoder> 1994 I was already using internet for a year or 2 by then but yeah
[22:24:31] <XXCoder> yahoo apparently has over 13,000 entries. :P
[22:32:15] <renesis> urmom has 13k entries
[22:32:20] <renesis> k that was mean sry
[22:38:40] <XXCoder> lol
[23:01:27] <pink_vpr> hi
[23:03:00] <Wolf_Mill> morning pink
[23:03:41] <XXCoder> hey the dark
[23:03:47] <pink_vampire> hi Wolf_Mill, I see yoour panel - look very nice!
[23:04:17] <Wolf_Mill> :) thx
[23:04:48] <pink_vampire> you have a pic from the other side?
[23:04:58] <pink_vampire> I want to make also a panel.
[23:05:44] <furrywolf> I'm making a panel too. it has a couple switches and a couple LEDs. :P
[23:07:04] <pink_vampire> furrywolf: it start like that.. and grow..
[23:07:21] <Wolf_Mill> I didnt take any pics of the back, its a mess
[23:08:33] <pink_vampire> it's fine, I want to see how dense it is
[23:09:48] <sector_0> has anyone ever built a scara arm with regular NEMA17 steppers?
[23:09:54] <sector_0> and is it wise to do this?
[23:10:08] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/iAeCFWH.jpg its packed pretty well
[23:10:30] <furrywolf> nema17? I don't know if they can lift themselves. :P
[23:11:10] <XXCoder> sector_0: whats expected result?
[23:11:17] <XXCoder> is it expected to lift a ton for examokw
[23:11:45] <sector_0> XXCoder, no I'm just building a plotter
[23:11:57] <sector_0> furrywolf, heh, they're not that bad
[23:12:03] <XXCoder> so besides itself it lifts a pen or something
[23:12:25] <sector_0> yes
[23:12:37] <sector_0> but my main concern is accuracy
[23:12:37] <furrywolf> I have a mini chinese desktop machine, and I'm running nema34 steppers.
[23:12:52] <furrywolf> even my sherline, which weighs about what a couple nema34 steppers does, has nema23s on it.
[23:12:54] <XXCoder> furrywolf: probably a bit overkill as mine uses 23
[23:13:25] <furrywolf> XXCoder: nema34 is what the factory cnc kit uses.
[23:13:36] <XXCoder> interesting
[23:13:45] <pink_vampire> Wolf_Mill: it's actually look very nice, I can't see any mess
[23:13:50] <Wolf_Mill> very overkill, my micro is running 23 and I bent a m6 threaded rod to a 45deg angle with it not looseing a step :)
[23:14:16] <XXCoder> sector_0: important thing is rigidness
[23:14:30] <XXCoder> besides that no advice as I never used or built one lol
[23:14:51] <pink_vampire> 3M /min is considered as fast machine?
[23:15:35] <furrywolf> well, mini is relative... I have a Shopmaster.
[23:15:56] <furrywolf> It's still small, chinese, and desktop, but it is 650lbs.
[23:16:19] <sector_0> furrywolf, what do you use it for?
[23:17:29] <furrywolf> right now? collecting dust. I started building a new electronics enclosure, then my back got crunched, and it hasn't been touched since.
[23:21:05] <furrywolf> right now my limited functionality goes entirely to things needed to survive, not toys.
[23:34:50] <pink_vampire> https://i.chzbgr.com/full/4031698688/h4D86EB2C/
[23:35:38] <Wolf_Mill> heh, damn camera noobs...
[23:35:49] <Wolf_Mill> really only need 4 of those marked
[23:36:04] <XXCoder> fancy.
[23:37:29] <pink_vampire> someone know about serial data logger?
[23:45:21] * furrywolf has never seen the point of pointless modes
[23:45:51] <furrywolf> I was using one the other day that had all sorts of mode crap... flowers, baby, landscape, pet, sunset, etc, etc, etc..
[23:48:11] <pink_vampire> I'm using my cell phone :)
[23:49:06] <Wolf_Mill> my cameras live in manual mostly, maybe A/T priorty if I'm being lazy
[23:51:38] <furrywolf> my current camera doesn't have as many manual options as my old one, but still has most. a pentax optio s10.
[23:52:05] <Wolf_Mill> I'm running a canon 550D
[23:53:00] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/macroruler01.jpg I was playing around the other day with adding another lens for even better macro shots than it does stock.
[23:53:34] <Wolf_Mill> nice
[23:53:49] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/macrodustyresistor01.jpg not much depth of field. :)