#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-06

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[00:34:47] <Jymmm> Pallet Info… http://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/wellbeing/you-upcycle-pallet-read
[01:25:06] <SEL> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlG9wMAOI9c
[02:08:45] <Deejay> moin
[02:14:36] <fenn> a sane designer would have used a weldment or casting
[02:15:09] <fenn> but a silly machining process makes great television
[02:16:11] <archivist> or a forging
[02:17:00] <fenn> yeah forgings are great
[02:17:57] <fenn> it's probably based on a forging because the shape is so simple, you would never make a plain I-beam like that if designing for a machined part
[02:18:44] <fenn> a triangulated truss is much lighter or stiffer
[02:25:45] <fenn> there's surprisingly little information online about zinc casting, or sources for small quantities of zinc alloys
[02:27:41] <archivist> required purity means people probably use commercial casting
[02:30:26] <fenn> i am thinking i can make box ways close to finished to size by casting zinc around cold rolled steel
[02:31:00] <fenn> also pondering concrete with UHMW liners
[02:31:39] <archivist> over here the nickname of zinc is monkey metal
[02:32:11] <fenn> it got a bad reputation because manufacturers used too thin of a cross section
[02:32:19] <archivist> it got that name falling apart due to early casters not realising how pure it needed to be
[02:32:46] <fenn> do you know what impurities specifically?
[02:32:53] <archivist> no
[02:33:23] <archivist> I probably have it in a book somewhere though
[02:35:10] <fenn> well it's not that important, if my wheel weights don't work i'll spring for the 99.9% pure zinc ingots
[02:35:50] <fenn> also new pennies have the exact amount of copper needed to make za-27
[02:38:16] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak
[02:38:36] <fenn> heh i am reading that page right now
[02:38:47] <fenn> wondering why za-27 is not on there
[02:38:47] <archivist> there was one called mazak over here
[02:39:16] <fenn> zamak 2 is za-2 etc
[02:39:27] <fenn> za-27 has 27% aluminum
[02:44:48] <fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest lead impurities :(
[02:45:08] <fenn> zinc wheel weights are likely to have traces of lead on them from being mixed with lead wheel weights
[02:48:02] <archivist> so not something I would be attempting to cast unless I could make sure the metal was good
[02:49:20] <fenn> well if it takes 50 years for the problem to appear i'm fine with that
[02:51:17] <archivist> there are some other related intercrystal cracking, stress corrosion cracking, caustic embrittlement etc
[02:52:50] <archivist> wrought iron breaks with what looks like a brittle fracture but can be annealed before it is too late, brasses can be stress relieved to stop stress corrosion cracking
[05:17:51] <XXCoder> fenn: zinc is WEIRD. 13 isopines
[05:18:04] <XXCoder> most elements have just a few
[06:49:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Zinc is evil (toxic)
[06:50:21] <XXCoder> it is and it isnt. you can get zinc fever if not carefukl
[06:50:58] <XXCoder> its completely safe to hold and use as metal, but not food safe
[06:51:08] <XXCoder> thats what I recall anyway lol
[06:51:18] <XXCoder> its heck of lot safer than lead
[06:51:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Well, very toxic to birds if ingested, such as when plasted on toy/perch hardware
[06:51:22] <archivist> dont weld galvanised
[06:51:44] <Jymmm> plated*
[06:51:56] <Jymmm> archivist: that too
[06:52:20] <archivist> plated is galvanised
[06:52:40] <Jymmm> ah
[06:53:02] <archivist> two methods electroplate and hot dip
[06:53:42] <Jymmm> hot dip like chain link fence?
[06:54:06] <archivist> you can see the crystal structure in electroplated zinc
[06:56:47] <Jymmm> Well, no welding galvanized unless you are this guy, he's a professional... http://grapgat.blogspot.com/2007/08/african-welding-machine.html
[06:56:55] <archivist> there is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherardising
[06:59:39] <Jymmm> Crystal is kinda purrty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-dip_galvanization
[07:01:16] <Jymmm> What the... Zinc ammonium chloride, yeah that have non-toxic and safe for kids written all over it
[07:03:48] <Sync_> it will burn off
[07:04:10] <Jymmm> Man, the process itself is toxic as hell... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-dip_galvanization#Process
[07:04:25] <XXCoder> sodium chloride is seperately very toxic yet...
[07:05:45] <XXCoder> weird thing is that in sale those two is STILL seperate, just very hard to purify into two elements
[07:06:34] <XXCoder> *salt
[07:06:39] <Jymmm> I just wanna be this dude... http://img.index.hu/imgfrm/4/3/2/7/BIG_0012994327.jpg
[07:07:03] <XXCoder> risking zinc fever fun
[07:07:37] <Jymmm> oh, is that all?
[07:07:44] <Jymmm> <grin>
[07:08:39] <Jymmm> There might be something wrong when your welder is being held together with string
[07:09:20] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:10:14] <Jymmm> But then again when you make $2/month, that might be a luxury, especially when you are welding together a shelter
[07:11:07] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:11:13] <XXCoder> be back
[07:17:09] <Sync_> fenn: rapid prototyping, it is cheaper to machine from a block than to have it fabricated
[07:21:30] <malcom2073> Yeah I'd imagine that kind of a part would be cast then machined in production
[07:22:57] <malcom2073> https://youtu.be/GlG9wMAOI9c?t=267 THAT tool is cool
[07:23:55] <XXCoder> yeah theres few parts at my work that was cast then machined
[07:24:04] <XXCoder> malcom2073: and scary
[07:24:08] <malcom2073> True
[07:24:11] <XXCoder> awesome too
[07:24:39] <XXCoder> the challenge is making initial precision surface for next steps
[07:24:45] <Sync_> well it is the same idea as a wohlhaupter
[07:24:55] <XXCoder> and ensuring that part is still completely inside cast
[07:24:56] <Sync_> just servo controlled
[07:31:04] <XXCoder> malcom2073: nice video thanks
[10:27:43] <jthornton> dang compiler warning drove me nuts, I thought it was wrong but I was wrong... C++ is fun now
[10:33:24] <kengu> so you thought you were wrong but you were wrong
[10:34:33] <Deejay> pebcak :D
[10:34:45] <Deejay> problem exists between chair and keyboard *me runs*
[10:37:39] <Tom_itx> jthornton, using gcc?
[10:59:50] <CaptHindsight> http://grapgat.blogspot.com/2007/08/tool-time.html some of these are good
[11:12:58] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, yes
[11:13:35] <JT-Shop> Deejay, exactly, I'm not ashamed to admit I made a rookie mistook while learning
[11:13:50] <Deejay> :)
[11:13:57] <Tom_itx> i haven't done much with c++
[11:14:20] <JT-Shop> as usual the error message was concise but not clear to a newbee
[11:14:45] <JT-Shop> I just started the other day again...
[11:14:54] <JT-Shop> it's starting to click now
[11:15:21] <furrywolf> I used to know C++ a lot better than I currently do. been writing plain C for a while now. I need to refresh my C++ if I ever work more on my raytracing program, as I ended up reimplementing way too much of C++ in C last time...
[11:16:50] <furrywolf> I had structs full of function pointers, and the structs would include other structs first and could be cast to the simpler structs...
[11:17:11] <PetefromTn_> I love my C++++++ that shit is AMAZING!!
[11:17:28] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, good stuff
[11:22:39] <furrywolf> objects and polymorphism written in C... I should have used C++. the project grew in complexity during implementation. :)
[11:22:45] <ganzuul> http://i.imgur.com/LXkRbra.gifv
[11:27:40] <Jymmm> I still like ANSI C over C++
[11:28:32] <furrywolf> I too prefer C... but I ended up reimplementing too much of C++ in C for that project for it not to have been a good idea to just use C++.
[11:28:46] <furrywolf> C programs are also valid C++ programs... you can only use the features of C++ that you want. :)
[11:29:58] <Jymmm> I wrote way too much procedural code
[11:30:25] <Jymmm> Nested Ternary FTW =)
[11:30:59] <archivist> you can shove ternary where the sun dont shine
[11:31:26] <Jymmm> hahahahaha, Yeah, thoats' how mst ppl feel about ternary, I love it
[11:31:43] <archivist> unreadable shite
[11:31:46] <furrywolf> I added the ternary ?: to a BASIC interpreter once. :P
[11:31:48] <Jymmm> I just makes sense to me.
[11:33:44] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Hey, can't be any worse than GOTO/GOSUB ;)
[11:34:34] * furrywolf decided the ternary operator was too important for any language not to have. :P
[11:34:42] <archivist> if you are used to assembler, goto and gosub are normal
[11:34:55] <Jymmm> JMP ???
[11:34:59] <furrywolf> JSR.. :P
[11:35:11] <archivist> or call
[11:35:21] <archivist> depending on processor
[11:35:56] <furrywolf> I wrote a compiler that output sparc asm a while ago, but I've forgotten a lot of it...
[11:36:17] <Jymmm> I've never touched ASM, just some PS and BF
[11:36:28] <archivist> some idiot wrote a book called Object oriented assembly language L. Dorfman Windcrest 1990
[11:36:38] <furrywolf> lol
[11:37:01] <furrywolf> most of my asm experience is on the 68 series, but the most recent was over a decade ago...
[11:37:29] <furrywolf> I did some SSE (intel SIMD instructions) asm for my raytracer.
[11:38:00] <furrywolf> it was faster to compute multiple things at once and discard the extra than to do branches to see how much you actually needed to compute.
[11:39:30] <furrywolf> LOL at the "customer reviews" of capitalone credit cards. "Capital One protects me when I discover an unauthorized purchase so I can have peace of mind and shop with confidence!" etc. sure, "customers"...
[11:40:44] <furrywolf> looking for another card with good cashback now that my amex is being closed in 6 months...
[11:40:45] <Jymmm> Heh, they even capitalized the "O" in one... BUSTED
[11:41:34] <furrywolf> also, two local businesses that used to take amex no longer do, and that seems to be a trend.
[11:42:57] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Soem courthouses (to pay a ticket) ONLY take MC, no VISA
[11:43:03] <furrywolf> I got a second amex card to replace the expiring trueearnings one I have, but it's only 1% cash back, and amex is getting increasingly hard to use.
[11:43:30] <furrywolf> so looking for a non-amex card with cashback. no "points", "categories", etc preferably. heh.
[11:45:03] <Jymmm> Got welder? http://img.index.hu/imgfrm/4/3/2/7/BIG_0012994327.jpg
[11:45:49] * furrywolf already pasted those images here
[11:46:19] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/welder1.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/welder2.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/welder3.jpg I even saved them to make them easier to paste. :P
[11:47:28] <cradek> wonder what the laminations are
[11:47:46] <furrywolf> tin cans?
[11:48:44] <Jymmm> Love the expsoed end of the hvy ga blue wire =)
[11:50:29] <cradek> that's the low voltage winding - perfectly safe to touch
[11:51:27] <Jymmm> Probably safer than carrying the welder
[11:51:45] <Jymmm> welding art http://i.imgur.com/xlliZEY.jpg
[11:52:29] * furrywolf wouldn't assume anything about that welder is perfectly safe
[11:56:28] <Jymmm> I guess it's safer than lion attacks
[11:58:56] <CaptHindsight> to someone in business administration they don't see the difference except for cost
[11:59:37] <CaptHindsight> the welder in the picture only charges $5 a day, why the heck are we paying our welders $400?!
[11:59:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: $5 a MONTH
[12:01:31] <CaptHindsight> they see machinists, engineers and scientists the same way
[12:04:00] <CaptHindsight> all the bean counter sees is money being lost
[12:06:31] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaRY-58a60A
[12:07:10] <PetefromTn_> Hell I will weld for you for $400.00 a day ;)
[12:07:55] <Jymmm> Anyone know the name/type/model of this pole? http://info.vanpeople.com/attachments/2013/06/1_201306030203521LVhm.jpg
[12:07:55] * furrywolf would too
[12:08:38] <furrywolf> no, but I've seen those in trailer parks...
[12:09:11] <Jymmm> Yeah, also temporaory power poles
[12:09:38] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: is there a panel below the meter?
[12:09:57] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Just a 150A breaker
[12:10:18] <CaptHindsight> looks a pretty standard underground service entrance
[12:11:38] <Wolf_Mill> sorta close http://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/index~text~5719746~path~product~part~5719746~ds~dept~process~search?gclid=Cj0KEQjwyK-vBRCp4cymxermx-EBEiQATOQgh7gLKFYldpfU3fMk8ZmS8e2FcIjPgCuwlRvxzqdXg_4aAir28P8HAQ
[12:11:48] <furrywolf> standard? the only thing I've ever seen here is the service coming up in grey conduit to a normal meter and panel...
[12:12:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-200-Amp-8-Space-16-Circuit-Outdoor-Overhead-Underground-Main-Breaker-CSED-RC816F200C/100178340?cm_mmc=Shopping|VF&gclid=CMau8sDu4scCFQooaQodqvUHKA&gclsrc=aw.ds
[12:13:00] <CaptHindsight> they make extensions for the bottom
[12:14:33] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: did through the squard d, siemens and similar catalogs, just not Eaton
[12:15:51] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'll open it up and see what it is; just thought someone might know.
[12:16:49] <Jymmm> It'll be simpler to install a new circuit into the rear one, rather than mess with the panel
[12:19:25] <CaptHindsight> those are used on underground services where the power co just runs cable into the meter without the need for any conduit
[12:20:19] <Wolf_Mill> ^ what he said, I worked for a elec co contractor for a while doing underground installs
[12:20:57] <furrywolf> I've heard of direct burial USE, but never seen it.
[12:21:01] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I don't recall them having any special name, you just described what you version you wanted
[12:21:44] <furrywolf> underground services are very, very rare here. I think the sewer is only underground because they don't want to pump it up poles. :P
[12:22:19] <CaptHindsight> overhead sewage
[12:22:24] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: k
[12:22:51] <furrywolf> I think there's a couple subdivisions a couple towns over with underground electric, but everywhere else it's on poles.
[12:23:14] <furrywolf> I'm assuming it's more costly and harder to maintain.
[12:23:28] <furrywolf> having to use insulated wire, dig trenches, etc.
[12:24:09] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Cheaper than trees knocking down lines during winter storms
[12:24:10] <CaptHindsight> they use them around here to make it easier for them to be cut by other utilities and construction
[12:24:26] <Jymmm> what CaptHindsight said =)
[12:25:35] <furrywolf> Jymmm: we also have soil creep, landslides, etc, and trees often take a good chunk of the roadway with them if the roots pull up. :P
[12:25:54] <renesis> norcal trees dont fuck around
[12:26:14] <furrywolf> our railroad was the most expensive railroad in the entire united states to maintain due to soil instability.
[12:26:42] <CaptHindsight> they should have used better dirt
[12:27:36] <furrywolf> yes, bulldozing entire mountains and rebuilding them with different soil might have helped. :P
[12:27:54] <CaptHindsight> hasn't CA always been a train wreck or poor planning, building where there is no water, on active faults, etc
[12:27:59] <CaptHindsight> or/of
[12:28:16] <furrywolf> not all of CA. up here we don't get many earthquakes and have plenty of water. :)
[12:28:23] <furrywolf> that's why they steal our water.
[12:29:04] <CaptHindsight> yet, northern CA is far less inhabited
[12:31:05] <furrywolf> that's because city people can't deal with hills or roads that have curves in them.
[12:31:48] <furrywolf> you get behind tourists that slow way down and look around every time there's a curve in the road, because apparantly they've never seen such a thing in their lives.
[12:32:19] <renesis> wot?
[12:32:47] <CaptHindsight> I thought that they liked hills. Isn't that why hollywood is so popular? Since you can look down and see them making movies.
[12:33:03] <renesis> dude hollywood hills and santa monica mountains are awesome drives
[12:34:27] <furrywolf> we have real hills here. lol
[12:34:47] <renesis> yeah but los angeles has real roads
[12:35:43] <furrywolf> lol
[12:35:45] <CaptHindsight> I thought that norther CA had too many trees in the way to make homes
[12:36:13] <renesis> last time i was in LA, i did old topanga to topanga up to saddle peak down stunt road then mullholland to leo carillo beach, prob 50 miles of twisties, most of it well maintained
[12:37:17] <furrywolf> I'm at home on gravel roads. traffic sucks.
[12:37:28] <renesis> theres barely any traffic
[12:37:36] <CaptHindsight> and since they banned the cutting down of trees (unless it's for consumption) the roads have to be built around them
[12:37:45] <renesis> traffic on a los angeles canyon road is like, one car in front of you doing the speed limit
[12:38:06] <renesis> so you see a lot of cars on the side of the road waiting for a large gap
[12:38:50] <furrywolf> you see other cars? eww. :P
[12:39:06] <CaptHindsight> renesis: is that the road used to drive off or push the car with body in the trunk off of to make them disappear?
[12:39:33] <CaptHindsight> or end a chase scene
[12:39:47] <renesis> in most places its doubtful, someone would find them
[12:40:45] <renesis> where furry lives is much more appropriate for that, if less convenient
[12:41:35] <renesis> like, SB county has crazier roads, but mostly because theyre less maintained, and the civil engineering sucked in the first place
[12:41:40] <CaptHindsight> must be something about those hills to cause the cars to burst into flames as well
[12:42:07] <renesis> what do you mean?
[12:42:24] <furrywolf> renesis: occasionally they find cars off cliffs with skeletons in them here...
[12:42:48] <furrywolf> someone's out hiking, or scouting a logging road, or whatever, and comes across a car...
[12:42:57] <renesis> right, sometimes people punt themselves and die, but rescue gets the bodies out
[12:43:12] <renesis> they dont always pull the cars out
[12:43:42] <furrywolf> no... I mean here people come across cars that went off the road, and no one ever found it.
[12:44:03] <furrywolf> and then the cops get to close a missing person case.
[12:44:08] <renesis> right thats the diff between los angeles canyons and where you live
[12:44:15] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Yeah, thus why I carry a crowbar, tow rope, and saw in the car =)
[12:45:04] <renesis> heh, i dont think about it
[12:46:17] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I just have two of those poles; the one in the front feeds the rear and has a 220V@20A breaker that feeds a water pump. Instead of messing with the panel, I thought I'd add a 20A breaker to the rear and install a subpanel in the garage
[12:47:08] <renesis> heh, gravel is where my car stops, is like a cat and water
[12:48:23] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I already have spools of 12ga THHN, and thought I'd just run this http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-1-2-in-x-100-ft-Non-Metallic-Liquidtight-Conduit-6002-30-00/202286688
[12:49:19] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, run a proper 2" conduit
[12:49:29] <Tom_itx> you'll regret it if you don't
[12:49:38] <Tom_itx> maybe even 3"
[12:49:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: pvc?
[12:49:57] <Tom_itx> i ran 2 2.5" ones to the garage
[12:50:03] <Tom_itx> during the pour
[12:50:18] <Wolf_Mill> ^ i'm still kicking myself for not running big enough out to my garage
[12:50:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I dont think there is 4" between the gas line and the extrerior wall
[12:50:55] <Tom_itx> put it somewhere else
[12:51:12] <Wolf_Mill> my elec is direct bury but I ran 3/4 pvc out to the garage, should have used bigger
[12:51:34] <roycroft> if you're installing conduit like that, consider one for data that is separate from the power line conduit
[12:51:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: The "somewhere else" runs close to the septic tank, and I have nfc where the leech field is (yet)
[12:51:54] <renesis> roycroft: smrt
[12:51:56] <Tom_itx> well having those tubes in makes it alot easier to add things like alarm wire, cat5 etc
[12:52:26] <Jymmm> roycroft: I already was going to run two CAT5's in a seperate conduit
[12:52:39] <Wolf_Mill> I have 2 cat5 2 rg58 runs and 3/8" dot air line in it
[12:52:45] <Wolf_Mill> stuffed full
[12:52:55] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, run a fiber bundle
[12:52:59] <Sync_> Wolf_Mill: I have started running 75 or 100mm pipes everytime I bury something
[12:53:04] <Tom_itx> plan for the future
[12:53:07] <Sync_> the price does not matter much and the work is the same
[12:53:15] <roycroft> just make the conduit big enough for another pull and leave mule tape in the conduit
[12:53:30] <Sync_> but you only need to do it once :D
[12:53:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: trans-pacific style? lol
[12:53:30] <Tom_itx> that's what i did
[12:53:34] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[12:53:37] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it will be fine for decades but code in your area would probably require it to be at least rigid PVC, even though utility co get away with less
[12:54:16] <roycroft> the power utilities around here allow pvc conduit, but require all sweeps to be fiberglass
[12:54:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The existing 220@20A going to the pump is flex and about a 60ft run
[12:54:50] <roycroft> and for 200a service entrance they require that sweeps have a minimum radius of 36"
[12:55:17] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I'm just used to everything being in metal conduit around here
[12:55:58] <roycroft> backhoes eat through rigid conduit as easily as they eat through pvc
[12:56:25] <roycroft> and this is power we're talking about, not long-haul fiber
[12:56:29] <roycroft> so the backhoes will not be interested
[12:56:39] <CaptHindsight> I once had to have a $100 4" rigid 90 on the bottom of a panel that was fed by direct burial cable
[12:56:47] <roycroft> they have an irresistable attraction to fiber cables
[12:57:16] <Jymmm> It's gotta be better than what is there now... interior rolmex, exposed under the back porch, then nfc where it goes, then ends up in rigid pipe to the panel and the garage the last 4ft
[12:57:46] <CaptHindsight> where have all those fiber cables recently been cut? was it silicon valley or around LA?
[12:57:53] <Jymmm> and somewhere along the way, the los tthe GND
[12:58:02] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Bay Area / Silicon Valley
[12:59:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: There's a ATM loop around the entire bay area, but it seems they've only cut certain ones, not the primariy. I'm thinking disgruntaled employee
[12:59:30] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, just put some knob n tube on some posts and run it above gnd
[12:59:54] <Tom_itx> tie it to the fence for support
[12:59:55] <Wolf_Mill> lol my house had that in it
[13:00:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Hey, I have 100ft trees, I could just hang it over the branches. Critters with never chew that, right?
[13:00:27] <Jymmm> s/with/would/
[13:01:11] <Jymmm> Kinda sucks that I can't run mains and low voltage in the same conduit =(
[13:01:30] <Jymmm> How deep do I need to bury it?
[13:02:04] <Jymmm> (I need to figure out how much to pay the neighbor kid for digging the trench)
[13:04:11] <Jymmm> 24", damn =(
[13:05:44] <Sync_> your code prevents that? interesting
[13:05:48] <Sync_> there is no problem with that here
[13:05:59] <Jymmm> Sync_: ?
[13:06:34] <Jymmm> http://www.doityourself.com/stry/calculating-how-deep-to-bury-outdoor-electrical-wire
[13:10:07] <Sync_> running power and LV in one conduit
[13:10:22] <Jymmm> ah
[13:10:23] <roycroft> i would never do that
[13:10:28] <roycroft> it's pretty scary
[13:11:13] <Jymmm> roycroft: Oh come on, it's just 220V going to your door bell button, "what could go wrong?"
[13:11:47] <roycroft> i run service entrance conduits 36" deep, fwiw
[13:12:05] <roycroft> and i try to keep my fiber conduits at least 40" deep
[13:13:10] <roycroft> the deepest i've ever put a fiber conduit is 30' deep
[13:13:15] <roycroft> we had to bore under a river :)
[13:13:16] <Jymmm> Well, 18" deep is even an issue. I could run direct from rear pole to garage in a direct line if it wasn't for the gas line (propane) being in the way
[13:14:30] <Jymmm> the gas line comeing out of the ground is 4" from the ext wall, I'd have to run the new conduit between the two
[13:14:53] <Sync_> why not roycroft?
[13:15:05] <Sync_> it's not like the electrons will jump out of the cable
[13:15:25] <roycroft> when the conduit is cut they will
[13:16:03] <Jymmm> roycroft: Well, come on down.... the beer is cold
[13:16:17] <roycroft> ok
[13:16:22] <Sync_> sure, but then you got other issues aswell
[13:16:25] <roycroft> keep in mind that i'm a project manager, not a grunt
[13:16:39] <roycroft> so i'll come on down, drink beer, and direct the people who are doing the digging
[13:16:57] <Jymmm> roycroft: No worries, the shovel is project manager friendly =)
[13:18:14] <roycroft> most of the conduits install are done with directional boring these days
[13:18:20] <renesis> haha the only thing project managers are friendly with is spreadsheets and meeting scheduler
[13:18:25] <roycroft> i tend to put them in places where it's difficult to trench
[13:18:43] <roycroft> i'm the rare one who has seen the business end of a shovel before
[13:18:54] <roycroft> but i'm too old for that kind of work these days
[13:18:57] <roycroft> i've put in my time
[13:19:22] <roycroft> contractors tend to like me because i do know what's going on
[13:19:30] <roycroft> they also dislike me because they can't get away with bullshitting me
[13:19:33] <renesis> that helps
[13:19:45] <roycroft> i have one who starts asking me for change orders on day one of every single job
[13:20:04] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: so no 221 services on your watch?
[13:20:05] <roycroft> and he hates it when i come up with solutions that do not require change orders
[13:20:43] <roycroft> no
[13:21:03] * roycroft thinks it's time to head out to the shop
[13:22:14] <CaptHindsight> 90's here again, 60's by Friday, finally a break
[13:32:01] <malcom2073> zeeshan: You seriously interested in any of these servo motors?
[13:33:45] <malcom2073> Or did you say they were too small for you?
[13:44:42] <furrywolf> I've only gone down 30ft once, and it was a well. :P
[14:04:27] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Well, or mining shaft?
[14:09:00] <furrywolf> well
[14:09:18] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Um, how did you fit down a well hole/shaft?
[14:10:00] * furrywolf did not
[14:10:21] <furrywolf> I drilled a 30t water well.
[14:10:24] <furrywolf> 30ft
[14:10:25] <Jymmm> ah
[14:10:37] <Jymmm> oh yeah, your drill bit you welded up
[14:10:54] <Jymmm> that thng is evil looking =)
[14:11:12] * Tom_itx even thinks Jymmm would fit in this well: http://www.bigwell.org/
[14:11:57] <Jymmm> Why would they HAND dig a 32ft wide well?!?!?!?!
[14:12:07] <Tom_itx> maybe they were thirsty?
[14:12:24] <Jymmm> wouldn't 8ft wide be enough?
[14:12:55] <Tom_itx> maybe they lost their tape measure
[14:13:28] <furrywolf> greater diameter is more area for water to infiltrate and more storage capacity for surge demands.
[14:13:45] <Jymmm> furrywolf: ah
[14:13:58] <Tom_itx> it _was_ the town suppl
[14:14:00] <Tom_itx> y
[14:14:03] <Jymmm> Also looks liek it's for the staircase...
[14:14:12] <Tom_itx> that's not the original stairs
[14:14:15] <Jymmm> http://www.bigwell.org/history/thebigwell.jpg/image_mini
[14:14:25] <Tom_itx> the original ones were zig zag across it
[14:14:55] <Tom_itx> the tornado forced some upgrades
[14:16:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.bigwell.org/history
[14:17:02] <Tom_itx> you can see em there
[14:17:11] <furrywolf> that site is remarkably lacking in information or photos.
[14:17:35] <Tom_itx> they were quite rickety and swayed when you walked down
[14:18:41] <furrywolf> I did the tourist-grade tour of mammoth caverns once... about the only time I've been underground other than road tunnels.
[14:22:36] <ganzuul> Was on a tour of a mine once. They had exhibitions. One was turning the lights off inside a large carvern. Another was music and light show inside a cavern.
[14:23:18] <ganzuul> We were really deep down. It was surprisingly cold.
[14:23:36] <Tom_itx> probably ~50F
[14:23:40] <furrywolf> better than those caves you have to wear a cooled suit to go into. :P
[14:23:44] <furrywolf> 50F is not surprisingly cold.
[14:24:29] <Tom_itx> we've got a big salt mine around here too
[14:25:05] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Crystals >130F, >90% humidity. :P
[14:25:22] <Tom_itx> sauna
[14:25:34] <furrywolf> I'm not aware of any existing underground mines here... most of the mining was hydraulic mining. we have entire mountains missing.
[14:27:41] <furrywolf> the hottest I've been was running cables in an attic. I don't know exactly how hot it was, because the thermometer starting displaying EEE at 160F...
[14:28:19] <furrywolf> short entries and lots of cold water.
[14:29:01] <ganzuul> 71C is a cold sauna.
[14:29:11] <ganzuul> 80 is where vath starts.
[14:29:15] <ganzuul> ~ bath
[14:29:47] <ganzuul> 176F
[14:30:26] <furrywolf> I am not a hot weather person.
[14:30:39] <furrywolf> I'd wear a t-shirt in Tom_itx's 50F cave. :P
[14:31:48] <ganzuul> There should be a certain depth which is really comfy.
[14:36:41] <ganzuul> (and this is where I build my mad science lair)
[14:36:52] <ganzuul> ~will build
[14:38:13] <ganzuul> Should be base of a mountain be hotter than the surrounding flat area?
[14:38:38] <Sync_> don't forget that you will need to remove all the heat you generate
[14:39:12] <ganzuul> Sync_: Yeah, I'll need a lake to cool my reactors.
[14:40:11] <furrywolf> the obvious location is inside an old volcano in the ocean. that way you have warmth from below and plenty of cooling water around you.
[14:41:51] <ganzuul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Fire#/media/File:Pacific_Ring_of_Fire.svg
[14:41:57] <ganzuul> Alaska, maybe..
[14:42:18] * furrywolf puts on the wall of voodoo cover of ring of fire
[14:42:41] <XXCoder> ring of fire heh
[14:42:55] <furrywolf> gah! you use media viewer.
[14:43:07] <furrywolf> turn that crap off.
[14:43:31] <ganzuul> how?
[14:44:06] <ganzuul> oh right the huge blue button
[14:47:14] <CaptHindsight> have you seen what lives down there? http://list25.com/25-most-terrifying-deep-sea-creatures/
[14:47:48] <CaptHindsight> it worse than going to the DMV or theme park
[14:48:40] <furrywolf> not much is worse than going to the DMV.
[16:07:42] ChanServ changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based open-source CNC control. | Latest release: 2.7.0 | http://www.linuxcnc.org
[16:23:39] <andypugh> Has anyone tried re-machining a servo motor shaft? I have a servo that would be a lot more useful to me without the brake. I guess the main issue would be that the swarf would want to stick to the magnets.
[16:25:07] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:51] <DaViruz> it can't be done without machining? i've removed brakes form servo motors, and it's been a simple matter of sliding the brake off the shaft
[16:28:28] <andypugh> Removing the brake is easy, but the reason I want no brake is to have a shorter motor.
[16:28:40] <zeeshan> back
[16:28:53] <zeeshan> andypugh: send me the servo
[16:28:57] <zeeshan> don't abuse!
[16:29:11] <DaViruz> andypugh: oh.
[16:29:13] <andypugh> Too late, I already snipped the brake wires
[16:29:16] <zeeshan> :(
[16:29:20] <zeeshan> so i sold my lathe
[16:29:22] <zeeshan> :(
[16:29:23] <zeeshan> im depressed
[16:29:29] <andypugh> If I send you the servo, then I don’t have a servo.
[16:29:33] <DaViruz> i initially removed the brake from my spindle servo.
[16:29:49] <DaViruz> later it occured to me that it's super handy with a brake when tightening collets
[16:29:57] <andypugh> Why did you sell your lathe?
[16:30:08] <zeeshan> need room for the new lathe
[16:30:16] <zeeshan> as much as i hated the stepper based lathe
[16:30:21] <andypugh> Well, so why be depressed?
[16:30:22] <zeeshan> cause it wasn't close loop
[16:30:27] <zeeshan> i put a lot of work into it
[16:30:38] <zeeshan> and its made me a lot of money -- even when manual
[16:30:42] <andypugh> Yeah, same with my stepper-lathe
[16:30:49] <zeeshan> so grew attached
[16:31:06] <andypugh> I am not attached to my stepper lathe, it’s a piece of junk.
[16:31:10] <zeeshan> lol
[16:31:17] <andypugh> Though, for all that, it can do good work
[16:31:53] <zeeshan> yep
[16:31:57] <zeeshan> at the end of the day it's the operator
[16:32:22] <zeeshan> did you see what i am possibly picking up?
[16:32:22] <andypugh> Can’t complain about the finish on this ballscrew end: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/j_Tqt2LE_Uew4o4YYhF5T9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:32:31] <zeeshan> the one on the right
[16:32:32] <zeeshan> ?
[16:32:44] <zeeshan> left one looks like an acme
[16:32:44] <andypugh> Yes. The other is an Acme screw
[16:32:44] <zeeshan> nm
[16:32:51] <zeeshan> that is a nice finish!
[16:32:55] <zeeshan> looks ground
[16:33:07] <andypugh> Yeah. I think I got lucky with material hardness and surface speed.
[16:33:31] <andypugh> The smaller diameter in the softer core didn’t come out as nice.
[16:34:13] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/Hj8zV
[16:34:15] <zeeshan> here's the baby
[16:34:23] <zeeshan> that i might possibly be getting
[16:34:26] <zeeshan> almost 85% there..
[16:34:50] <andypugh> It’s bigger than my workshop!
[16:35:11] <andypugh> Direct-drive head motor?
[16:35:25] <zeeshan> i am not sure to be honest
[16:35:56] <andypugh> I think Okuma tend to. I recall a forum thread trying to work out how to drive one.
[16:36:10] <zeeshan> i wonder if that's a good thing or bad thing
[16:36:34] <andypugh> I think it’s a goof thing
[16:36:37] <andypugh> (good)
[16:37:31] <zeeshan> andypugh: the machine isn't that big
[16:37:53] <andypugh> I guess it is mainly tall. And tall isn’t a problem.
[16:38:12] <zeeshan> is 10 ft x 5.5ft x 6.7ft
[16:38:22] <zeeshan> i think my current lathe occupies about 8
[16:38:25] <zeeshan> ft in length
[16:39:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2PU86Wl.jpg
[16:39:18] <zeeshan> im thinking if i move my kennedy box to where the stepper length is
[16:39:29] <zeeshan> and move the engine hoist
[16:39:30] <zeeshan> i can fit it there
[16:40:23] <zeeshan> ill shif tthe car more to the right inthat pic
[16:40:23] <andypugh> You need more equipment and a bigger workshop.
[16:40:33] <andypugh> (That was me being jealous)
[16:40:50] <zeeshan> why are you jealous
[16:40:52] <zeeshan> you got tons of machines
[16:40:55] <zeeshan> and tons of space :P
[16:42:26] <andypugh> ? I have a single garage. I was moving my milling cutters to a wheeled trolley today just to be able to get to the coolant tank hatch on the mill conveniently.
[16:42:43] <zeeshan> well you dont have a car in there
[16:42:51] <zeeshan> so you can put your machines anywhere :P
[16:44:12] <andypugh> I did, for a while have two mills, two lathes, three motorcycles and a bicycle in there.
[16:44:33] <andypugh> I cheated by one of the mills being a mill/lathe combo.
[17:15:55] <Sync_> zeeshan: is the control working or will you retrofit?
[17:19:54] <furrywolf> I started rebuilding the carb on my new subaru, but the wind is picking up to where I'm not sure I want to take it apart more.
[17:20:16] <furrywolf> I wish I had a shop, so I didn't have to rebuild cars in the driveway. :(
[17:20:21] <furrywolf> carbs
[17:21:39] <Sync_> do it inside?
[17:26:13] <furrywolf> inside what?
[17:27:57] <furrywolf> I don't plan on taking the carb off the engine. it's a royal pain in the neck, and I don't have all the gaskets to do that.
[17:28:34] <furrywolf> I just need to split the top and bottom halves and replace all the bits that makes accessible. (accelerator pump piston, needle valve, needle seat, gaskets, etc)
[17:29:17] <furrywolf> but, there's a lot of little fiddly bits in that process, and it's getting rather windy.
[17:30:40] <furrywolf> The biggest problem is one of the vacuum passages between the top and bottom halves has blown out (sucked out?).
[17:30:47] <furrywolf> old gaskets...
[17:31:36] <ganzuul> Maybe one of those tents mercants use?
[17:31:44] <ganzuul> ~merchants
[17:32:07] <furrywolf> It's the vacuum to the power valve, which is a pretty fat passage... simultaneously causing a huge vacuum leak at idle, while the carb is trying to run extra-rich since the valve is open all the time...
[17:32:32] <furrywolf> which results in, shall we say, interesting air/fuel ratios.
[17:32:54] <zeeshan> andypugh: shoptask? :D
[17:33:03] <zeeshan> Sync_: it is working control but 3 phase
[17:33:07] <zeeshan> more than likely will retrofit
[17:33:12] <furrywolf> leans out at low throttle, chuffs black smoke at medium throttle, works fine at full throttle.
[17:33:13] <zeeshan> rather than rotary power converter
[17:33:43] <furrywolf> the rotary converter that came with my B&S works great... it's almost silent.
[17:34:03] <zeeshan> yea but itll need to be like a 25hp rpc
[17:34:25] <andypugh> zeeshan: ?
[17:34:34] <zeeshan> andypugh: the lathe/mill combo
[17:34:36] <furrywolf> rotary converters seem to be a lot smaller than similarly-sized motors... my 5hp converter is about the size of a 3hp motor.
[17:34:45] <andypugh> Ah, no, “Amadeal”
[17:35:07] <zeeshan> looks taiwanese :D
[17:35:16] <andypugh> http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/----span-style--font-size--16px------AMAP290V-FFF-Combination-Lathe-Milling-Machine------span-----963.html#SID=211
[17:35:31] <zeeshan> wait
[17:35:36] <andypugh> (Actually, that’s an upgraded version of the one I have)
[17:35:37] <zeeshan> is that mill head on a slider?
[17:35:48] <andypugh> Well, up and down…
[17:35:49] <zeeshan> so you can move it along the z axis of the lathe bed?
[17:35:56] <andypugh> No
[17:36:15] <zeeshan> where is the mill head attached
[17:36:20] <andypugh> It would be useful if it did.
[17:36:30] <andypugh> Just bolted to the back of the bed.
[17:36:43] <zeeshan> ah
[17:36:46] <andypugh> It’s not a great thing
[17:36:54] <zeeshan> btw ive been going through haas technicial papers
[17:36:58] <zeeshan> i have a newborn respect for the company
[17:37:02] <zeeshan> they really know wtf they're doing
[17:37:23] <zeeshan> andypugh: yea that is useless..
[17:37:52] <Sync_> zeeshan: why not just get 3phase wired?
[17:38:04] <zeeshan> sync its my house
[17:38:05] <zeeshan> no 3 phase
[17:38:06] <furrywolf> because 3ph to a residence is ungodly expensive?
[17:38:13] <Sync_> my flat has 3phase
[17:38:18] <zeeshan> youre in germany mate
[17:38:26] <zeeshan> not the best country in the world
[17:38:28] <zeeshan> aka canada
[17:38:34] <zeeshan> :-)
[17:39:25] <furrywolf> says the one who doesn't have 3ph for their kitchen stove like the other guy in here. :P
[17:39:37] <Sync_> yeah but running a rotary is so 60s
[17:39:48] <ganzuul> \o/
[17:39:49] <zeeshan> thats why ill sell the control stuff
[17:39:50] <zeeshan> and build my own
[17:39:52] <zeeshan> for single phase
[17:39:54] <zeeshan> then i can use it anywhere
[17:40:04] <zeeshan> it just means everything is 1.73x larger
[17:40:05] <zeeshan> that is all
[17:40:11] <furrywolf> Is the control itself 3ph, or just the motors?
[17:40:16] <zeeshan> no idea
[17:40:22] <zeeshan> i havent even seen the machine yet in real life
[17:40:26] <zeeshan> either way im getting it :P
[17:40:35] <furrywolf> I'd imagine the control doesn't care, and you can get single-to-3ph VFDs for all the motors...
[17:40:39] <zeeshan> remember my mill was 3 phase
[17:40:42] <zeeshan> i converted it to a single phase
[17:40:55] <zeeshan> furrywolf: they are servos
[17:40:58] <zeeshan> not going to work
[17:41:03] <zeeshan> what will work though is if i can tap into the dc rails
[17:41:05] <zeeshan> of the drives..
[17:41:08] <zeeshan> and by pass their internal suipply
[17:41:15] <Sync_> depends on the drive
[17:41:22] <Sync_> I suppose those don't care
[17:41:25] <Sync_> as they are old enough
[17:41:37] <furrywolf> Many things that run off 3ph will run off 1ph with no modifications.
[17:41:50] <zeeshan> yep
[17:41:50] <furrywolf> If the input is just rectifiers.
[17:42:02] <zeeshan> i know the alpha series fanuc drives
[17:42:05] <zeeshan> can run off single phase
[17:42:32] <Sync_> my micromaster vfds will not go without all three phases
[17:42:34] <furrywolf> I even talked to a Lambda tech about this one, and he said it's fine, but can cause thermal issues for the diodes about 2/3rds power in high ambient temperatures, and increases the output ripple slightly.
[17:42:39] <furrywolf> s/one/once
[17:42:49] <furrywolf> s/about/above
[17:42:53] * furrywolf is failing at typing today
[17:42:55] <zeeshan> Sync_: you sure?
[17:43:02] <Sync_> yes
[17:43:02] <zeeshan> for my sumitomo 10hp vfd
[17:43:05] <zeeshan> if you connect to l1 and l2
[17:43:15] <zeeshan> drive will turn on but give phase loss error
[17:43:18] <zeeshan> but if you connect to l1 and l3
[17:43:22] <zeeshan> it works
[17:43:34] <furrywolf> lol
[17:43:39] <Sync_> I'd just get 3phase wired
[17:43:41] <zeeshan> (they have a fine print in the manual)
[17:43:43] <Sync_> it makes stuff so much easier
[17:43:50] <zeeshan> sync its not much easier?
[17:43:51] <zeeshan> its the same
[17:44:05] <furrywolf> Sync_: in north america, 3ph is only available in commercial and industrial districts, and not all of them at that.
[17:44:23] <zeeshan> and 3 phase electricity costs more for service.
[17:44:26] <furrywolf> the power company does not run 3ph on the poles to residential areas.
[17:44:52] <furrywolf> If you ask them to install it, they will... at a rate of a few thousand dollars per pole they have to rebuild with another insulator and wire...
[17:45:06] <zeeshan> not even that furry
[17:45:12] <zeeshan> the monthly cost is higher
[17:45:18] <furrywolf> yep
[17:45:22] <zeeshan> from what i recall 20% of the your total cost of electricty
[17:45:27] <zeeshan> is the surchage you gotta pay for 3 phase
[17:45:34] <furrywolf> so you have an astronomical upfront cost and an almost-astronomical monthly cost... :P
[17:45:44] <zeeshan> also,
[17:45:47] <zeeshan> if your power factor is fucked
[17:45:52] <zeeshan> youre gonna pay a huge fine for that
[17:45:55] <zeeshan> fine isn't the right word
[17:45:57] <zeeshan> but you knwow hat i mean
[17:46:10] <zeeshan> so now you need pf correction hardware
[17:46:15] <furrywolf> yep. you get changed to various industrial billing schemes instead of the residential flat kWh rate.
[17:46:21] <zeeshan> yep
[17:46:31] <zeeshan> so it NA its harder to run 3 phase if anything :P
[17:46:40] <zeeshan> it makes 0 sense for a residential place
[17:47:01] <furrywolf> the per-pole costs, at least here, are very high... and if they have to put in new poles, it's something like $10k/pole.
[17:47:02] <zeeshan> here we go
[17:47:44] <zeeshan> but furrywolf
[17:47:45] <furrywolf> at least it was $10k/pole when I asked many years ago... it's probably higher now. :P
[17:47:49] <zeeshan> if i connect my neighbours power to mine
[17:47:53] <zeeshan> and another neighbours power
[17:47:55] <zeeshan> won't i get 3 phase?
[17:48:02] * zeeshan hides
[17:48:18] <furrywolf> you'll get three charges of electricity theft, does that count? :P
[17:48:22] <ganzuul> Maybe use a generator?
[17:48:23] <zeeshan> ROFL
[17:48:27] <zeeshan> fak generators
[17:48:29] <zeeshan> they arent clean power
[17:48:35] <PetefromTn_> I could barely pay to add another main panel to my shop let alone adding 3 phase power around here heh
[17:48:47] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i sold the 12x36
[17:48:48] <zeeshan> =[
[17:48:53] <Sync_> it makes 100% sense for residential to run 3phase
[17:48:58] <ganzuul> Bio-diesel is.
[17:48:59] <Sync_> no shitty cap motors
[17:49:08] <ganzuul> No heavy metals.
[17:49:10] <zeeshan> ganzuul: no i mean the electricity isn'
[17:49:10] <Sync_> electric stoves that work
[17:49:11] <zeeshan> isn'
[17:49:12] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah I miss mine LOL
[17:49:13] <zeeshan> asdsadsalksdj isn
[17:49:16] <zeeshan> isn't clean
[17:49:16] <Tom_itx> my bud had them add 3phase to his 1st shop and he had to show them that he would be using a certain amount
[17:49:36] <ganzuul> oic. Didn't know that
[17:49:53] <PetefromTn_> yeah there are a lot of hidden costs with 3 phase power
[17:50:21] <Tom_itx> when he built his new shop they put monitors on the pannel for a good while to make sure he was getting clean 3 phase
[17:50:23] <ganzuul> An immortal power supply could clean up a lot of it though.
[17:50:37] <Sync_> I wonder why they don't roll out 3phase
[17:50:40] <Sync_> it'd make sense
[17:50:43] <furrywolf> The guy I got my B&S mill from built his own power distribution network... he was too far from the road for a standard service drop, and the power company wanted a few hundred thousand bucks to install new poles to get power to his house.
[17:50:47] <Sync_> not that 2phase split bullshit
[17:51:08] <zeeshan> Sync_: cause people are too dumb
[17:51:13] <zeeshan> 240v 3 phase is prolly certainly death
[17:51:32] <Sync_> about as much death as 120V
[17:51:38] <furrywolf> So instead he had the power company run a standard 240V service to a pole by the road, then built his own step-up to 1200V, ran high-voltage wire down the hill to his house, and built step-downs for him and his neighbors. :)
[17:51:41] <zeeshan> i eat 120v for breakfast
[17:51:44] <zeeshan> :-)
[17:51:51] <furrywolf> Sync_: personally I think we should switch to DC mains.
[17:51:55] <zeeshan> oh god
[17:51:57] <zeeshan> lol
[17:51:58] <Sync_> no
[17:52:00] <zeeshan> die furrywolf!
[17:52:04] <zeeshan> you edison lover
[17:52:05] <Sync_> there is no sense in doing so
[17:52:28] <Sync_> HVDC makes all sense in the world
[17:52:35] <Sync_> but not in the lower distribution network
[17:52:36] <PetefromTn_> Nope sorry Edison was an AZZHOLE
[17:52:40] <Tom_itx> more transmission loss
[17:52:50] <ganzuul> You can run DC and AC on the same copper. Just need a low/high pass separator,
[17:53:13] <Sync_> distribution loss is not a very huge factor in the last mile
[17:53:21] <Sync_> with 240V it gets even better
[17:53:25] <furrywolf> There is a LOT of sense in doing so. It will eliminate capacitive losses in the distribution network, eliminate phase issues, synchronization, etc. It will allow replacement of big heavy pole pigs with little switching converters. It will allow elimination of extra conductors for 3ph distribution, metering, etc.
[17:53:29] <PetefromTn_> Tesla was a genius
[17:53:50] <Tom_itx> wonder how many times he zapped himself
[17:53:59] <Sync_> not really furrywolf
[17:54:18] <ganzuul> Tom_itx: They thought self-zapping was good for one's health back then.
[17:54:37] <furrywolf> It makes distributed generation (solar, etc) easier. Most loads these days other than induction motors already run off DC. Induction motors can be replaced with brushless DC motors, aka bolting a small VFD to the back of them. 50/60hz hum on audio circuits will be eliminated.
[17:54:43] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah then I must be healthy as a damn horse hehe
[17:54:45] <Tom_itx> along with morphene as a cure all
[17:54:53] <ganzuul> Same with radiation.
[17:55:01] <Sync_> well, most motors in the world are not VFD driven
[17:55:04] <Sync_> and they don't need to be
[17:55:20] <SpeedEvil> Sync_: if they were, most would have considerable energy savings
[17:55:25] <Sync_> nah
[17:55:42] <furrywolf> I think the extra costs of installing VFDs on new motors will be less than the savings throughout the rest of the system.
[17:55:48] <Tom_itx> so who's got 2.7.0 installed by now?
[17:55:56] <Tom_itx> it's nearly 24hrs old
[17:55:59] <Sync_> well you have to replace every wiring job furrywolf
[17:56:13] <Sync_> because breakers will not interrupt DC
[17:56:22] <Sync_> plug systems are not made for full load disconnects
[17:56:31] <furrywolf> Yeah, I don't think it's happening... but if you're going to claim installing 3ph is better, which also would require replacing everything... :P
[17:56:48] <Sync_> no
[17:57:06] <Sync_> you can just tap individal houses into it or not
[17:57:12] <Sync_> changes nothing for existing installations
[17:57:57] <furrywolf> except for having to rewire the entire residential distribution network, replace service drops, replace panels....
[17:58:13] <furrywolf> As I said, residential neighborhoods here do NOT have 3ph on the poles.
[17:58:21] <furrywolf> Your entire area all runs off a single phase.
[18:00:20] <furrywolf> this way each pole only needs 2/3rds the hardware and wire. :P
[18:00:31] <PetefromTn_> I need to figure a way to run my CNC 's off skittles....
[18:01:14] <ganzuul> Can I use lithium/moly grease for everything?
[18:01:19] <furrywolf> feed skittles to children. strap children to treadmill.
[18:01:27] <Sync_> that's not really true aswell furrywolf
[18:01:33] <PetefromTn_> Hey and I actually have two of those here now
[18:01:35] <Sync_> as you need higher powered transformers
[18:02:18] <furrywolf> no, you don't. not even at the substation.
[18:02:43] <furrywolf> rather than running all three phases on each pole and to each house, you just run 1/3rd the town off one phase, 1/3rd etc.
[18:03:50] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: I'm sure you've seen how much energy output a child given a few pounds of skittles can produce... the secret is strapping them to the treadmill tight enough they can't escape and run up the walls instead.
[18:03:50] <ganzuul> Also, why would anyone put moly in cutting oil?
[18:04:05] <furrywolf> because it helps lubricate the cut?
[18:04:19] <ganzuul> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Protection-Grease-Adhesives/Lubrication-and-Cutting-Aids
[18:04:22] <PetefromTn_> hell when I eat skittles I do that myself hehe
[18:04:22] <ganzuul> hm
[18:05:11] <ganzuul> right, and low vapor pressure cools it
[18:06:03] <ganzuul> I can save a little money by using a fixed tailstock center and EP grease... I think.
[18:06:04] <Sync_> you sure do as you need heavier gauge wiring
[18:06:19] <Sync_> so the savings of 1ph are rather moot
[18:06:37] <Sync_> and you cause annoying issues at the places itself
[18:06:43] <Sync_> as hot water units are huge
[18:06:50] <Sync_> and electric stoves need shittons of current
[18:07:03] <PetefromTn_> just ordered a brand new Weldcraft WP17F Tig Torch head and new handle for my junk...
[18:07:59] <furrywolf> we use gas to hear our water. it's much cheaper to use the gas to heat the water directly than to use the gas to make heat to make steam to spin turbines to spin generators to make electricty to distribute to turn back into heat to heat water. :P
[18:08:03] <furrywolf> s/hear/heat
[18:08:46] <Sync_> that actually depends on where you are
[18:08:59] <Sync_> in france it was very common for electricity to be insanely cheap
[18:09:09] <Sync_> so almost all heating there is electric
[18:09:11] <furrywolf> yes, in france you have clean, cheap nuclear power.
[18:09:16] <furrywolf> did you know this is not france? :P
[18:09:20] <PetefromTn_> never thought of ANYTHING being insanely cheap in France lol
[18:10:14] <furrywolf> there's two local power plants, and one is a tiny biomass plant. the other is natural gas. it's much cheaper to send the gas to your house than to send the gas to the power plant to make electricty to send to your house to turn back into heat.
[18:10:48] <furrywolf> it's the same gas, it just takes a much more direct route to your water heater. :)
[18:12:08] <furrywolf> actually, we might have a second biomass plant. they were talking about restarting it a few years ago, but it kept running into problems. I'm not sure if it's currently operational or not.
[18:12:51] <furrywolf> There used to be a lot more biomass available here, byproducts of the timber and paper industry... but now that we closed most of the mills and the only pulp mill, there's a lot less biomass, so one of the plants shut down... and was apparantly not easy to un-shutter.
[18:13:57] <furrywolf> everything I can find googling is from 2012, so I'm going with "didn't happen".
[18:15:55] * furrywolf likes the biomass power plants, since they turn a waste product into renewable energy
[18:18:24] <Jymmm> The only thing I've really seen is the cement plants that burn old tires, but I don't know how/if they control the emissions
[18:18:51] <furrywolf> biomass is nice because it's renewable and carbon-neutral.
[18:19:02] <furrywolf> and when it's a waste product, it's even better.
[18:19:05] <PetefromTn_> didn't they make power from pigs in Bartertown?
[18:19:25] <andypugh> furrywolf: It is debatable if they turn the waste product into _renewable_ energy. It rather depends on what is being burned.
[18:19:47] <PetefromTn_> two men enter....one man leaves!!
[18:19:52] <andypugh> I guess tyres from rubber trees are renewable. Tyres from synthetic rubber are not.
[18:19:56] <PetefromTn_> gotta go eat dinner bbl
[18:20:05] <furrywolf> the timber industry creates a good amount of waste... all the parts of the tree that can't be turned into lumber or OSB chips... sawdust, bark, planer chips, etc, etc...
[18:20:26] <furrywolf> andypugh: the ones here are, as I already said, fired off timber industry waste.
[18:20:33] <furrywolf> which is renewable and carbon-neutral.
[18:23:08] <andypugh> Kittens! renewable _and_ carbon neutral. We should burn kittens!
[18:23:24] <Jymmm> what andypugh said
[18:23:29] * furrywolf burns andypugh's shop and house
[18:24:16] * Jymmm lol @ furrywolf... Yeah, go ahead and "burn" andypugh house, especially the roof =)
[18:24:38] <Jymmm> all 20 tons of it =)
[18:24:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: or was it 30 ton?
[18:25:10] <andypugh> I can’t remember. Plenty to not blow away t least
[18:25:18] <Jymmm> =)
[18:25:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: you doing any more on it lately?
[18:26:44] <andypugh> Not a lot, it’s actually my parent’s house, not mine, and it pretty much finished. I finished off the front door a few weeks ago. 2 layers of 2” oak planks with clenched-over nails.
[18:27:22] <andypugh> I never got round to fitting the cover strips on the joints, but found the blacksmith nails the other week so put the strips on.
[18:27:27] <Jymmm> 4" door??! Is this ahouse or a medevil castle you're restoring?
[18:27:42] <andypugh> A Medieval house
[18:27:49] * ganzuul sends ninja kittens on assassination missions
[18:30:36] <andypugh> We found the original door hinge pivots set in the masonry, so we had to make a door to suit. :-)
[18:32:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: You do restores very well =)
[18:32:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: I rememebr the MC you did, and I think there was a fire truck in there too
[18:32:42] <andypugh> It seems to be something I have ended up doing a lot of.
[18:33:37] <andypugh> The Fire engine started it all off, really. It belongs to my old university. Though it has never been restored, it has been pretty much a runner for 99 years, with just maintanance.
[18:33:41] <furrywolf> want to come and restore my B&S mill for me? :P
[18:34:20] <andypugh> Too busy with my Holbrook. (I am labelliong the Rivett as “finished” now)
[18:34:43] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Do you deal with China a lot? Or am I getting my people confused?
[18:38:09] <zeeshan> man fucking compound angles
[18:38:10] <zeeshan> messing with my head
[18:38:18] <zeeshan> :(
[18:39:24] <furrywolf> make your lumps yet?
[18:39:30] <zeeshan> furry u saw em
[18:39:31] <zeeshan> :P
[18:39:59] <furrywolf> I saw one half-finished.
[18:41:34] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/XaHQFVf.jpg
[18:43:27] <furrywolf> got your mandrels coming out?
[18:43:39] <zeeshan> yessir
[18:43:43] <zeeshan> it was actually easy
[18:43:51] <zeeshan> i took a battery tube that is supposed to fit in there
[18:43:52] <zeeshan> bored it out
[18:43:52] <furrywolf> make all 40 of them?
[18:43:55] <zeeshan> slit it
[18:43:59] <zeeshan> and pulled it out
[18:44:09] <zeeshan> no
[18:44:15] <zeeshan> later this week i will start full production
[18:44:36] <furrywolf> it's still about the ugliest shape I can think of, but now it's a shiny ugly shape. lol
[18:44:54] <furrywolf> customer happy?
[18:45:01] <andypugh> You don’t see the shape as much with the disruptive camouflage.
[18:45:16] <zeeshan> yea he's ecastic about it
[18:45:17] <ganzuul> The pattern in the wood is really pretty.
[18:45:27] <furrywolf> good :)
[18:45:37] <andypugh> zeeshan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnJ6X8UK2so
[18:45:42] <furrywolf> now do it 39 more times. :P
[18:46:59] <zeeshan> fak dude
[18:47:01] <zeeshan> i should just cast these
[18:47:02] <zeeshan> haha
[18:47:32] <andypugh> The combination of wood and coloured resin looks quite nice.
[18:47:58] <zeeshan> i honestly hated the shape
[18:48:01] <zeeshan> but with the wood pattern
[18:48:06] <zeeshan> i actually don't mind it at all
[18:48:14] <zeeshan> or maybe i've looked at it too long..
[18:48:15] <zeeshan> :(
[18:48:53] <furrywolf> lol
[18:49:18] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to make some significantly more pleasurable shapes and sell them...
[18:49:36] <furrywolf> need to make my 4th axis work first though.
[18:50:23] <malcom2073> Hey zeeshan
[18:50:34] <zeeshan> malcom2073: answer is no
[18:50:35] <zeeshan> haha
[18:50:36] <zeeshan> sorry
[18:50:38] <malcom2073> LOL OK
[18:50:45] <zeeshan> not large enough for 4th axis
[18:50:51] <malcom2073> Whups
[18:50:53] <malcom2073> capslock haha
[18:50:54] <malcom2073> Ok that's fine
[18:50:56] <malcom2073> gonna ebay them then
[18:51:00] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that wont be hygienic :P
[18:51:27] <furrywolf> zeeshan: several coats of good polyurethane will make it completely nonporus.
[18:51:28] <zeeshan> btw just for the record
[18:51:36] <zeeshan> whoever was telling me wood machining is hard
[18:51:40] <zeeshan> hasn't machined wood before
[18:51:42] <zeeshan> it's a joke
[18:51:43] <furrywolf> bbl, wind seems to have died down, time to go back to poking at car.
[18:51:46] <zeeshan> :P
[18:51:49] <malcom2073> It's hard on your tools
[18:51:52] <zeeshan> not at all dude
[18:52:04] <zeeshan> all carbide is holding its edge great
[18:52:05] <malcom2073> Wood is abrasive, they get dull much faster than when cutting metal
[18:52:07] <zeeshan> its like getting butter
[18:52:08] <furrywolf> wasn't me. I often use wood blocks to test toolpaths better than cutting air, because I can cut them really fast with no tool wear. :P
[18:52:12] <zeeshan> i dont believe you
[18:52:15] <zeeshan> youre at the wrong sfm then
[18:52:16] <malcom2073> Oh it's easy to cut, no strain on the machine itself
[18:52:17] <zeeshan> if thqats happening
[18:52:25] <zeeshan> dulling is a function of heat
[18:52:33] <malcom2073> On metal yeah
[18:52:42] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yep
[18:52:51] <zeeshan> i bought 3 tools thinking it was going to be hard
[18:52:57] <zeeshan> waste of $
[18:53:01] <furrywolf> a backup cutter is always a good idea. :P
[18:53:01] <zeeshan> i think i can do a 100with the same tool
[18:53:21] <zeeshan> ill make a video
[18:53:25] <zeeshan> im not going light cuts either..
[18:53:32] <zeeshan> theres no heat being generated
[18:54:22] <ganzuul> Dirty wood is abrasive.
[18:54:39] <ganzuul> Might be stones or what not lodged in it.
[18:55:02] <zeeshan> ever machined cast aluminum?
[18:55:03] <zeeshan> ;p
[18:55:10] <ganzuul> newp
[18:55:12] <zeeshan> the silicon in there is abrasive
[18:55:17] <zeeshan> this is no where close :p
[18:55:48] <ganzuul> Never machined nothin'. That's why I'm climbng up the walls to get started.
[18:57:14] <ganzuul> On Tuesday I have another entry-thing for a metallista school.
[18:57:26] <ganzuul> Machinist, specifically.
[18:58:14] <ganzuul> Well unless you call destrying things with an angle grinder machining.
[18:58:36] <ganzuul> Drilled holes in metal too.
[18:59:41] <SpeedEvil> you can machine to quite tight tollerances with an angle grinder and skill
[19:00:00] <zeeshan> lol
[19:00:45] <jdh> anyone done 316 on a g0704?
[19:00:59] <SpeedEvil> Not joking - I can't find the 'making flat machine ways to 1 thou with an angle grinder' page though.
[19:02:08] <ganzuul> SpeedEvil: I believe you. Grinding is grinding.
[19:04:01] <Tom_itx> zeeshan was your removal tool similar to what i suggested?
[19:04:01] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: My dad used to re-grind gear teeth with three angle grinders.
[19:04:13] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: kind of
[19:04:17] <zeeshan> the tube was of similar dimensions
[19:04:19] <zeeshan> but i slit it
[19:04:20] <andypugh> (you need three so you can swap when one gets too hot)
[19:04:23] <zeeshan> and clamped it in 3 jaw
[19:04:24] <zeeshan> and pulled ito ut
[19:04:24] <SpeedEvil> hah
[19:04:26] <Tom_itx> worked ok then?
[19:04:28] <zeeshan> yes
[19:04:34] <zeeshan> i dont mind doing that for the next 39
[19:05:01] <andypugh> Imagine taking 1/4” off of every drive face of a gear that is 4 feet diameter and 18” face width…
[19:05:14] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: that is a lot of metal.
[19:05:42] <ganzuul> Angle grinding makes the air smell nice.
[19:05:53] <andypugh> Yeah, but when the plant is losing 100k a day with down-time and the replacement gear is going to take 3 weeks to make, it’s worth getting things up and running again.
[19:05:56] <SpeedEvil> And a runner to go back and forth to the angle grinder shop for warranty returns
[19:06:55] <andypugh> My dad was service manager for David Brown. Who you might not have heard of, but they make enourmous gearboxes for industrial plants.
[19:10:52] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, clamped it in what 3jaw? i thought you sold your lathe?
[19:11:00] <zeeshan> i still got it for a week
[19:11:09] <Tom_itx> better hope you get done
[19:11:10] <zeeshan> i can use hose clamp to do the same thing
[19:11:14] <Tom_itx> and have no more to make
[19:11:14] <zeeshan> or t-bolt clamp
[19:11:37] <Tom_itx> is that 2 different designs in the pic?
[19:11:50] <zeeshan> the left one is the competition
[19:11:54] <Tom_itx> are you just doing the right one?
[19:11:55] <zeeshan> it sells for 800+ shipping
[19:12:01] <Tom_itx> holy crap
[19:12:23] <zeeshan> ikr
[19:12:28] <zeeshan> i'd never spend that much on something like this
[19:12:33] <zeeshan> but i can understand the craze..
[19:12:36] <zeeshan> i would prolly spend that on a custom knife
[19:12:53] <Tom_itx> i'd spend it on tooling :D
[19:13:15] <zeeshan> yea
[19:13:18] <zeeshan> 800 can get some nice tooling
[19:14:23] <Tom_itx> is that one finished?
[19:14:46] <Tom_itx> less innards..
[19:14:54] <zeeshan> all of it is finished, he has more polishing to do
[19:14:58] <zeeshan> and i need to make a jig for compound holes
[19:15:00] <zeeshan> for wire routing
[19:15:12] <zeeshan> still need to do plate engraving, but that will be in the end
[19:15:29] <zeeshan> i wanna be sure of fitment on this first one
[19:15:32] <zeeshan> before i move onto production mode
[19:15:33] <Tom_itx> got some engraving cutters?
[19:15:38] <zeeshan> the cost is too much in wood
[19:15:53] <zeeshan> he paid $150 per block of wood
[19:15:59] <zeeshan> times 40
[19:16:05] <zeeshan> i cant have any f ups
[19:16:20] <Tom_itx> well he gave you some setup material didn't he/
[19:16:21] <Tom_itx> ?
[19:16:26] <andypugh> I think he over-paid, even though it is very nice wood.
[19:16:49] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes it was scrap wood
[19:16:53] <zeeshan> but i wanted to machine on the actual thing
[19:16:57] <zeeshan> to see chipout and stuff like that
[19:17:01] <zeeshan> it chips out very easily with big drill bits
[19:17:07] <zeeshan> but with end mills, chip out is not a big deal
[19:17:13] <zeeshan> even when its .0625 thin wall conditions
[19:17:46] <andypugh> Time to go
[19:17:49] <zeeshan> cya!
[19:18:18] <ganzuul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burl
[19:18:27] <zeeshan> ganzuul: yes its a burl
[19:18:28] <zeeshan> very expensive wood
[19:18:31] <ganzuul> \o/
[19:19:19] <zeeshan> okay this guy is clearly lieing to me
[19:19:21] <zeeshan> about the wood cost
[19:19:23] <zeeshan> its not that expensive
[19:19:28] <ganzuul> yeah
[19:19:38] <zeeshan> its more like 50 bux
[19:19:41] <zeeshan> per blank
[19:19:44] <zeeshan> what a dick
[19:19:53] <zeeshan> im gonna jack up the price for the next 40 he wants
[19:20:04] <malcom2073> Nice
[19:20:15] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stabilized-Box-Elder-Maple-Burl-Wood-Woodturning-knife-scales-blocks-Many-colors-/181841986080?var=480790639298&hash=item2a56a08220
[19:20:21] <zeeshan> i got very similar dimensions to this
[19:20:48] <zeeshan> ours is 2"x1.8"x4.5"
[19:21:01] <zeeshan> 33 bux
[19:21:02] <zeeshan> lol
[19:21:03] <zeeshan> wow this guy.
[19:22:08] <SpeedEvil> What did he claim?
[19:22:13] <zeeshan> $150 per piece
[19:22:14] <zeeshan> lol
[19:22:16] <ganzuul> You coul possibly 'add value' to burl, by say having a wood expert select grades based on their idea of prettyness.
[19:22:28] <zeeshan> yea ganzuul, but still 150 vs 33
[19:22:32] <zeeshan> thats a big diff.
[19:22:40] <zeeshan> i don't like being lied to
[19:22:48] <zeeshan> he's definitely getting owned on the next batch of 40
[19:22:55] <zeeshan> im a purely ethical person
[19:22:56] <SpeedEvil> Well, $150 arguably could be if it was a special tree.
[19:23:02] <zeeshan> i highly doubt that
[19:23:02] <Tom_itx> sure he knows about the cost?
[19:23:06] <zeeshan> these look very similar
[19:23:08] <Tom_itx> maybe he's gettin screwed
[19:23:20] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: nah this is the 3rd time i saw a deviation on what he's said
[19:23:24] <zeeshan> and what it actually is
[19:23:31] <zeeshan> he was trying to tell me that left one went for $450..
[19:23:32] <ganzuul> There is also wood which looks like burl but isn't.
[19:23:38] <zeeshan> i went online and found the exact version and confronted him
[19:23:40] <zeeshan> saying he costs 800
[19:23:54] <zeeshan> so he'll still make money, and my price is firm for machining em.
[19:24:04] <zeeshan> im charging him on TIME , not what it'll sell for.
[19:24:33] <SpeedEvil> I've got ~400kg of burl in the shed
[19:24:39] <SpeedEvil> nice stuff too
[19:25:15] <SpeedEvil> You can have it for only $800000
[19:25:17] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:25:56] <SpeedEvil> I missed the above - have you started cutting?
[19:26:08] <zeeshan> yes
[19:26:10] <zeeshan> i gotta go sorry
[19:26:12] <zeeshan> bl
[19:26:12] <zeeshan> bbl
[19:27:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:34:44] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: just scrolles
[19:34:47] <SpeedEvil> d up - nice
[19:54:20] <furrywolf> grrrrrrrrrrr. the carb rebuild kit is missing one of the rubber seals I need.
[19:56:53] <furrywolf> no bowl vent solenoid parts in the kit
[19:57:32] <furrywolf> and I can't even figure out how to get the old one out... it seems like press-fit.
[20:00:23] <furrywolf> http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/06/5a/fc/large/0900c15280065afc.gif all the parts to part 7, in the top right corner of that image, are not included. not even the rubber seal that you ALWAYS NEED TO REPLACE.
[20:01:30] <furrywolf> I think I'll just remove the rubber valve part and cap off the vent line. it'll no longer be california smog complaint, but if they won't sell me the parts I need to fix it, not my problem.
[20:02:35] <furrywolf> the only thing the solenoid does is switch the bowl from being vented to the air horn to being vented to the charcoal canister.
[21:09:49] <furrywolf> argh. my back is too sore to put the carb back together.
[21:09:53] <furrywolf> I can't keep leaning over.
[21:09:54] <anarchos2> ooooh 2.7?!
[21:10:04] * anarchos2 runs to the shop
[21:13:59] <anarchos2> hmm, maybe i'll do a clean install, just for giggles
[21:15:08] <Tom_itx> from 2.5 there will be some config changes
[21:15:47] <furrywolf> I'll probably leave mine unupgraded until I get my 7i76e.
[21:15:51] <Wolf_Mill> glad I started off with 2.7 pre :D
[21:15:59] <furrywolf> the lack of internet at the storage unit being one of the many reasons.
[21:16:05] <Tom_itx> wasn't hard to update at all
[21:16:19] <anarchos2> i was thinking of maybe going from wheezy to whatever the latest ubuntu lts is called
[21:16:22] <anarchos2> but i'm not sure
[21:17:02] <furrywolf> I'd suggest not using any distribution with systemd, unless it's a toy where random downtime is acceptable.
[21:17:52] <anarchos2> oh yea? that's the new init system, eh?
[21:17:56] <furrywolf> yes
[21:18:46] <furrywolf> it's also the new networking system, device initialization system, firmware system, module loading system, authentication system, user management system, logging system,...
[21:18:53] <anarchos2> jessie is on systemd is it not?
[21:18:56] <furrywolf> yes
[21:19:00] <anarchos2> or is it testing that is?
[21:19:09] <furrywolf> and I finally gave up and wiped the drive I put jessie on.
[21:19:18] <furrywolf> because it's impossible to uninstall systemd from it.
[21:19:25] <anarchos2> hmm
[21:21:26] <furrywolf> bbl, trying to get the car put back together before dark... but my back is making it very, very difficult.
[21:32:02] <malcom2073> Hmm, I may need to make my own pulleys
[21:40:08] <furrywolf> fucking hell! I can't fucking function with my back not working!
[21:40:53] <PetefromTn_> I can't function without cheesecake ;)
[21:41:34] <PetefromTn_> Which is why my wife Dacia is making some as we speak :D
[21:41:41] <furrywolf> I'll give you lots of cheesecake if you give me a working back.
[21:42:04] <furrywolf> it's been 2.5 months now and I still can't fucking function.
[21:42:19] <PetefromTn_> not unless it is my wife's cheesecake and that is doubtful
[21:45:59] <furrywolf> and now the sun's going down and the car isn't back together because I can't get back out of my chair.
[21:47:00] <PetefromTn_> I sometimes have trouble getting out of my chair/couch as well.....but it has nothing to do with a bad back ;)
[21:47:21] <Tom_itx> ass magnet?
[21:47:33] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[21:47:55] <PetefromTn_> somehow it gets jammed in there and it is REALLY hard to get it back out LOL
[21:48:32] <PetefromTn_> like right now.... watching STAR WARS and getting ready to eat cheesecake.... chances are NOT good
[21:48:46] <furrywolf> I didn't have a bad back until 2.5 months ago... and hopefully I won't keep having one... but it's really not fucking getting better very quickly.
[22:05:49] <jdh> I just cut some 316 in my G0704. Worked surprisingly well, if not ungodly slow
[22:06:42] <Tom_itx> SS isn't bad if you follow the rules
[22:07:34] <jdh> oh? I don't know the rules. Got any simple ones?
[22:08:12] <Tom_itx> don't let it work harden :)
[22:08:52] <jdh> I think, on my machine, there is fine line between so small a cut it work hardens, and so big it stalls
[22:09:09] <Tom_itx> yeah that could be a problem
[22:10:20] <jdh> needed a 0.5" slot, 1.0" deep in a ~2" piece of SS
[22:11:30] <Tom_itx> what size cutter are you using?
[22:12:04] <jdh> .375
[22:12:41] <jdh> did one slot down the middle then two more to size
[22:13:59] <Tom_itx> sounds about right
[22:15:38] <jdh> it came out a few thou undersize. hope it doesn't matter.
[22:16:54] <Tom_itx> backlash comp set ok?
[22:17:07] <Tom_itx> on each axis
[22:17:57] <jdh> last time I checked, it was good.
[22:22:24] <jdh> I MDI'ed the Y moves though. Maybe I should have made the final Y moves outward. 0.0028 compensation on Y
[22:23:11] <Tom_itx> is z solid as well?
[22:23:20] <Tom_itx> side play in the spindle
[22:24:45] <jdh> it's a cheap chinese mill....
[22:25:14] <jdh> could have used a 0.5" end mill, but that seemed cruel
[22:25:23] <Tom_itx> not as cheap as my sherline :)
[22:26:00] <jdh> motor was pretty toasty when I was done. Only did 0.007 deep so it took forever
[22:28:17] <jdh> FSWizard says 0.120 DOC
[22:28:58] <jdh> heh... or 0.656 for the outside ones
[22:29:01] <Tom_itx> that depends on the machine too
[22:31:20] <jdh> I don't trust the gears in mine that much. New spindle bearings and belt drive would be nice
[22:31:47] <Tom_itx> so far i like these timing belts i went to
[22:31:56] <jdh> for spindle?
[22:31:59] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:32:08] <Tom_itx> much better than the stock v belt
[22:33:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/new_pulley_mounted1.jpg
[22:33:56] <Tom_itx> that was before i switched spindle encoders
[22:34:36] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc6.jpg
[22:34:37] <Tom_itx> and after
[23:20:46] <furrywolf> managed to get the carb back together, got everything adjusted, it seemed to be running and idling great. drive towards town, step on the clutch... it dies. won't even make an attempt at idle. have to restart it with your foot down. get back home... it idles perfectly. exactly where I had it set when I adjusted it. grrr.
[23:21:03] <XXCoder> hey furrywolf
[23:21:17] <XXCoder> that is weird
[23:22:07] <furrywolf> it could have a particle of crud floating around in the idle circuit.
[23:22:13] <Tom_itx> dirty fuel filter
[23:22:42] <furrywolf> a) filters are recent. b) it has no problem at power, only at idle. fuel filters cause the exact opposite.
[23:23:18] <Tom_itx> true
[23:25:06] <furrywolf> the lower part of the idle circuit is very, very difficult to clean, since to make california happy (in soviet california, emissions control you!), the idle screws are non-removable.
[23:25:35] <Tom_itx> covered with slugs?
[23:25:41] <furrywolf> yep
[23:25:51] <Tom_itx> take em out
[23:26:06] <furrywolf> have to drill them out. and they're not random slugs, they're hardened ball bearings.
[23:26:28] <Tom_itx> mmm
[23:27:09] <furrywolf> actually, this car is a 49-state, it might not have them. I didn't check, since you can't get them without pulling the carb anyway.
[23:28:00] <zeeshan> possessed car
[23:28:56] <zeeshan> man im stuffed
[23:28:57] <zeeshan> ribfest
[23:31:36] <furrywolf> let's make the idle screws non-adjustable! ... so everyone drives with mis-adjusted carbs that pollute worse. Let's make gas cans have valves and vapor recovery! ... so you make a mess trying to use them, causing tens of thousands of times the vapor emissions. Let's pay people to scrap their old cars! ... so lots of pollution can be made building new ones.
[23:31:41] <furrywolf> I hate california some times...
[23:32:12] <zeeshan> canada - best country !
[23:32:14] <XXCoder> well it did help bump off few smokecars
[23:33:06] <furrywolf> Let's make it impossible to build an affordable, efficient diesel that meets emission standards! ... so everyone drives much less efficient gas cars, using much more fuel, producing much more pollution.
[23:33:25] <zeeshan> Fak gas
[23:33:29] <zeeshan> Electric cars!!!!!!!!
[23:33:33] <zeeshan> everyone buy one
[23:33:36] <zeeshan> bring gas down for me
[23:33:44] <XXCoder> theres air pressure cars but not coming so far
[23:33:55] <XXCoder> one country has air pressure powered buses
[23:34:03] <furrywolf> any mass switch to electric cars will cause a massive spike in electricity costs.
[23:34:16] <zeeshan> i dont use electricity
[23:34:32] <XXCoder> car needs few pennies of electricity to drive its full range
[23:34:35] <furrywolf> in that case, I'll take your mill, since you aren't powering it. :P
[23:34:38] <XXCoder> which isnt too much
[23:34:38] <roycroft> air pressure powered cars/buses would not work in this part of the country
[23:34:43] <zeeshan> my horse is powering it
[23:34:50] <roycroft> but they would be almost free to operate in our nation's capital
[23:35:12] <XXCoder> roycroft: plenty of sun?
[23:35:17] <roycroft> plenty of hot air
[23:35:17] <XXCoder> it would have near limitless range
[23:35:20] <XXCoder> lol
[23:35:26] <furrywolf> XXCoder: I think you'll find it's not quite that cheap. Also, I think you'll find the battery wear costs more than the electricity.
[23:35:42] <XXCoder> thats the unfortunate side
[23:35:51] <XXCoder> thats why I am waiting for elio not electric car
[23:35:57] <roycroft> evs are still dirty technology
[23:36:13] <furrywolf> also, the infrastructure is NOT in place to support a mass switch to electric vehicle.
[23:36:13] <roycroft> we need to perfect green batteries
[23:36:20] <XXCoder> roycroft: depends on what source is. batteries itself isnt too clean
[23:36:37] <Wolf_Mill> <3 diesel http://i.imgur.com/NYkyk1n.jpg
[23:36:56] <furrywolf> and don't forget that you're still making just as much pollution, it just comes from a power plant instead of from your tailpipe. renewables are still a small percentage of the supply, and nuclear isn't nearly as widespread as it could be.
[23:37:06] <roycroft> my power is 100% sustainable
[23:37:17] <roycroft> i'm not just pushing the pollution back
[23:37:26] <roycroft> but not everyone has access to sustainable power yet
[23:37:32] <XXCoder> furrywolf: again, depends on what your power source is
[23:37:42] <XXCoder> if your solars was only one charging your ev
[23:37:55] <XXCoder> its lower pollution (but not zero due to batteries themselves)
[23:37:58] <furrywolf> I think electric cars are a good idea... I just don't think they're ready for mass purchase yet.
[23:38:10] <XXCoder> it isnt I agree. nearest is Telsa.
[23:38:19] <roycroft> i'd like to get another five years out of my car
[23:38:30] <roycroft> and i think in five years an ev might be doable for me
[23:38:31] <XXCoder> 2 years for my van
[23:38:31] <roycroft> but not today
[23:38:39] <XXCoder> good chance I get my elio by then
[23:38:40] <roycroft> i just rolled 200k this summer
[23:38:44] <roycroft> and it's a tdi
[23:38:48] <roycroft> so the engine is barely broken in :)
[23:38:59] <roycroft> i expect the rest of the car to fall apart before the engine needs a rebuild
[23:39:03] <furrywolf> also, li* battery powered electric cars are still way, way too expensive.
[23:39:07] <XXCoder> nice! diesel correct?
[23:39:12] <roycroft> yes
[23:39:17] <roycroft> '99 vw new beetle
[23:39:38] <furrywolf> it's a '90s TDI, so it'll seize from sludge buildup in the oil passages any minute? :P
[23:39:38] <XXCoder> new beetle or new new beetle?
[23:39:49] <roycroft> "new beetle" is the model designation
[23:39:59] <XXCoder> I know
[23:40:05] <roycroft> as opposed to the old, air-cooled beetles
[23:40:10] <XXCoder> I'm just talking about that later design revision
[23:40:15] <XXCoder> of new beetle
[23:40:23] <roycroft> the new beetle came out in '98
[23:40:35] <roycroft> the first version was roughly from '98 to '01
[23:40:46] <XXCoder> ok
[23:40:46] <roycroft> so it was the original new beetle, i suppose
[23:40:54] <furrywolf> the ones that always fail from sludge buildup. :P
[23:41:15] <XXCoder> thats problem of using "new" in model name
[23:41:20] <XXCoder> it will become slowly ironic
[23:41:27] <XXCoder> also, "old new beetle"
[23:42:34] <furrywolf> (really. google tdi sludge buildup and see if it applies to your engine)
[23:43:12] <roycroft> it seems folks have that problem at <100k miles
[23:43:19] <roycroft> i have 204k miles on mine
[23:43:38] <roycroft> perhaps it's because i use biodiesel instead of petroleum diesel that i don't have the problem
[23:43:54] <XXCoder> so it smells like fries or something? lol
[23:44:01] <roycroft> not really
[23:44:01] <XXCoder> whats you use for biodiesel
[23:44:04] <Wolf_Mill> might be a north america issue as well
[23:44:09] <roycroft> but it doesn't stink like petroleum diesel
[23:44:14] <roycroft> i'm in north america
[23:44:20] <Wolf_Mill> oh :D
[23:44:25] <roycroft> i use biodiesel that i get at the filling station
[23:44:33] <XXCoder> interesting
[23:44:46] <XXCoder> theres people making biodiesel from algae
[23:44:52] <roycroft> yes
[23:44:57] <furrywolf> XXCoder: commercial biodiesel has been processed enough to remove most of the veggi oil smell.
[23:44:59] <XXCoder> using algae reactor to extract co2
[23:45:21] <roycroft> i experimented with making tiny amounts (like 5 liters) of biodiesel
[23:45:26] <roycroft> this was about 15 years ago
[23:45:31] <Wolf_Mill> only issue with biodiesel is it will break up crap that is built up in the tank and clog up filters
[23:45:44] <roycroft> i was going to build a small biodiesel refining system so i could collect used cooking oil and make my own fuel
[23:45:55] <roycroft> but then a local company started selling refined biodiesel
[23:46:11] <roycroft> they did not have a filling station at first, but they had totes of fule on truckes
[23:46:21] <roycroft> they would drive up to my house and fill a 55 gallon drum for me
[23:46:26] <roycroft> and i would pump it into my car
[23:46:34] <roycroft> then they opened a filling station and now i just go there
[23:46:40] <furrywolf> get an old volvo or a ford truck that will run the veggie oil directly. :P
[23:46:42] <roycroft> it's a lot more convenient than making my own
[23:46:50] <roycroft> well i could do that with my car
[23:47:01] <roycroft> however, no vehicle can start up on straight veggie oil
[23:47:04] <roycroft> you need diesel to start it
[23:47:11] <roycroft> and you need to pre-heat the veggie oil
[23:47:20] <XXCoder> I read about one setup where there is two tanks
[23:47:22] <roycroft> and you need to flush the veggie oil from the system before you shut it off
[23:47:23] * furrywolf has seen vehicles run on straight veggie oil
[23:47:25] <roycroft> yes, that's how it's done
[23:47:28] <roycroft> no you haven't
[23:47:29] <XXCoder> one gallon for diesel and other tank
[23:47:31] <Tom_itx> so you smell like frenchfries goin down the road?
[23:47:40] <roycroft> you've seen vehicles that operate on straight veggie oil once they start up
[23:47:49] <roycroft> but you haven't seen one that you can start cold on straight veggie oil
[23:48:11] <roycroft> you use a small auxiliary tank full of petro/biodiesel
[23:48:17] <roycroft> start the vehicle with that
[23:48:19] <furrywolf> I should note I'm in an area that doesn't drop below freezing, and veggie oil remains liquid all year 'round...
[23:48:21] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: late night jig exposure
[23:48:28] <roycroft> sure
[23:48:41] <roycroft> but you need to heat it a lot more than just above freezing to use it
[23:48:42] <furrywolf> I've seen both '80s fords (6.9/7.3 IDI) and I think a mercedes running off only veggie oil.
[23:49:09] <XXCoder> most places in usa it would gel in least
[23:49:12] <XXCoder> solidify at worse
[23:49:14] <roycroft> you take your fuel line from the veggie oil tank, wrap it around an exhaust component so you can pre-heat it
[23:49:23] <roycroft> and you haven't seen that
[23:49:44] <zeeshan> i run on vegie oil
[23:49:47] * furrywolf knows a lot of hippies
[23:50:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/62f9gZl.png
[23:50:03] <roycroft> room temperature veggie oil is way too thick to push through the injectors
[23:50:06] <furrywolf> I don't know what the reliability of it is. it could be they all failed when winter came. but I have seen it.
[23:50:07] <zeeshan> look at thjis retarded jig i gotta make
[23:50:10] * roycroft is a hippie
[23:50:11] <zeeshan> to drill these holes
[23:50:17] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/TDLdRav.png
[23:50:23] <roycroft> in the heat of summer you can't run a car with straight veggie oil
[23:50:24] <zeeshan> retarded compound angle
[23:50:26] <zeeshan> ;[
[23:50:42] <furrywolf> the ford IDI is good at pushing just about anything through the injectors. I have a friend who's dumped a LOT of crap into his tank. and he has a friend that runs off, I kid you not, road tar.
[23:50:54] <roycroft> well, i suppose if you had some kind of electric fuel pre-heater system you might be able to do something like that
[23:51:01] <XXCoder> jeez bet thats toxioc as hell
[23:51:31] <XXCoder> zeeshan: thats not too clear
[23:51:34] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, do you need to drill up from the bottom too?
[23:51:36] <Wolf_Mill> I think there is 12v pre-heat systems out
[23:51:37] <furrywolf> he got a whole bunch of barrels of road tar free, and built the world's most sketchy apparatus for getting it into his truck. see, unlike veggie oil, that IS solid at room temperature. very, very solid.
[23:51:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yessir
[23:51:40] <zeeshan> 2 jigs
[23:51:44] <zeeshan> gayyyyy
[23:52:03] <XXCoder> crazy, fur!
[23:52:16] <furrywolf> so he puts the barrels on their side, over a large propane burner, and melts the tar until it runs out into another barrel where he mixes the hot tar with used motor oil until it resembles something that might be pumpable...
[23:52:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you know veggie oil has other uses
[23:52:49] <furrywolf> and then runs his truck off the mix of used motor oil and road tar. :)
[23:52:52] <zeeshan> Specifically in a field you specialize in
[23:53:16] <Tom_itx> oh here goes the neighborhood again...
[23:53:41] <furrywolf> his heating/mixing apparatus looks like it could turn into a massive fireball at any instant.
[23:53:54] <XXCoder> truly crazy.
[23:54:12] <XXCoder> funny thing stirling car engine, if such existed, would be better for him
[23:54:25] <XXCoder> it only needs exterior heat source. which can be from anything
[23:56:34] <zeeshan> http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/508167f66bb3f75e67000007-1200-858/ap810511077.jpg
[23:56:34] <zeeshan> wow
[23:56:40] <zeeshan> guess what caused that
[23:56:45] <XXCoder> your gas
[23:56:51] <XXCoder> stop eating tacos
[23:57:00] <furrywolf> broken water main
[23:57:05] <zeeshan> nope, nope.
[23:57:06] <zeeshan> so wrong
[23:57:09] <zeeshan> both of yous
[23:57:27] <Tom_itx> sinkhole from pumping oil or water from underneath
[23:57:28] <furrywolf> karst topography. :P
[23:57:30] <zeeshan> nope
[23:57:33] <zeeshan> man the answer is simple
[23:57:40] <zeeshan> and there is only one logical answer
[23:57:42] <zeeshan> it was a tormach
[23:57:47] <zeeshan> they were moving one in
[23:57:58] <furrywolf> ?
[23:57:59] <zeeshan> sorry
[23:58:07] <zeeshan> i came across that pic when searching for concrete slab capacities
[23:58:07] <zeeshan> haha
[23:58:15] <zeeshan> :p
[23:58:35] <zeeshan> florida is terrible to lve in
[23:58:39] <zeeshan> the whole thing is a swap
[23:59:07] <Tom_itx> disney didn't think so
[23:59:11] <zeeshan> :P
[23:59:24] <zeeshan> it looks like the shittiest concrete slab
[23:59:24] <zeeshan> 4"
[23:59:28] * furrywolf googles to see what the actual cause was
[23:59:30] <zeeshan> can handle 2000psi per sqft
[23:59:38] <zeeshan> er
[23:59:42] <zeeshan> 2000psq
[23:59:47] <zeeshan> psi per sq ft rofl
[23:59:56] <zeeshan> lb / ft^2
[23:59:58] <zeeshan> there go.