#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-04

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[00:01:51] <furrywolf> When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
[00:08:11] <furrywolf> can't get my connection working well enough to check email. bleh.
[00:10:35] <zeeshan> i love my drill grinder
[00:10:47] <zeeshan> it can do flat bottom drills too :D
[00:11:04] <Wolf_Mill> wow, stepper are reading 160F
[00:11:10] <zeeshan> Wolf_Mill: thats hot!
[00:11:41] <Wolf_Mill> this was eariler http://i.imgur.com/eotv49V.jpg
[00:12:13] <furrywolf> flat bottom drills make the rockin' world go 'round?
[00:13:25] <roycroft> i have a drill doctor that is useful for really small drills and for doing split point grinds
[00:13:44] <roycroft> but i can grind a twist drill from about 1/4" or larger a lot faster by hand
[00:13:51] <roycroft> it just takes a few seconds on the grinder
[00:14:31] * furrywolf wonders if anyone even knows who queen is anymore.
[00:15:11] <roycroft> anyone who has watched wayne's world knows
[00:15:38] <furrywolf> and yet I make a bad pun, and no one groans. :P
[00:19:57] <Wolf_Mill> so, turning the ball screw, go all out and bust out the tool post grinder? (never used it before)
[00:22:17] <tiwake> put a bigger heatsink on?
[00:22:57] <Wolf_Mill> heatsink?
[00:23:27] <tiwake> on the steppers
[00:23:59] <Wolf_Mill> no heatsinks on them right now
[00:27:41] <furrywolf> I might have to give up on checking my email tonight.
[00:34:39] <trentster> Does this make any bloody sense to anyone - why the surface speed gets set to low when I set spindle to 8000RPM ? https://monosnap.com/file/UYftPaxR8eKOkDbT5hhoRuChXKRwfX
[00:48:45] <Wolf_Mill> wow this engraving is SLOW
[00:55:57] <Wolf_Mill> not bad for a center drill lol http://i.imgur.com/iC4FouN.jpg
[00:59:57] <zeeshan> looks excellent
[01:00:44] <Wolf_Mill> I think I made it too deep in cad lol
[01:01:10] <furrywolf> I give up. no email tonight. bbl, sleep.
[01:02:43] <MacGalempsy> finally all PID is done
[02:12:05] <Deejay> moin
[06:18:29] <fenn> trentster: learn the difference between speed and feed. speed is the tangential velocity of the cutting tooth, and feed is the radial velocity (in the case of milling cutters) and in general feed is how much the cutter is fed into the workpiece per revolution
[06:19:01] <fenn> so of course speed is proportional to spindle rpm
[06:20:38] <XXCoder> did pink ever come in again
[06:20:42] <XXCoder> hey fenn
[06:21:05] <fenn> hi
[06:21:27] <fenn> haven't seen pink since she was trying to fix the Z gib issue
[06:21:42] <fenn> maybe got sick of machining and threw the mill in the trash :P
[06:21:51] <XXCoder> wonder whats going on. lol hope not.
[06:21:58] <XXCoder> I'd love to have that machine./
[06:22:40] <fenn> i've been lusting over the HGR surplus inventory, knowing that 90% of it is probably destroyed by rude forklifting
[06:23:40] <fenn> need a henchperson in ohio to go pick over their tooling
[06:24:29] <XXCoder> pay me gas money
[06:24:37] <XXCoder> I'm at WA state
[06:25:00] <XXCoder> be cheaper to pay me plane ticket and rental uhaul for you lol
[06:26:25] <fenn> it's cheaper to buy a used truck than uhaul cross country
[06:26:36] <fenn> and then i'd have a truck
[06:26:41] <XXCoder> even with all gas for it?
[06:26:44] <fenn> yeah
[06:26:46] <XXCoder> ah then uhaul needs has too
[06:26:49] <XXCoder> *gas
[06:27:12] <lair82> fenn, you are correct, they get a little rough at hgr with the forklifts
[06:28:07] <lair82> We are only about 2 hrs from there shop, so we make 1 or 2 trips a year over there.
[06:28:34] <fenn> says "12 acre facility" on the website, i can't even imagine
[06:29:38] <XXCoder> fields of machine porn
[06:29:45] <fenn> maybe i'll just buy some buckets of endmills and call it a day
[06:29:59] <lair82> It is crazy, honestly, any kind of machine you could think of, all under one roof
[06:30:08] <XXCoder> I cant do anything till I know more about what I want to do
[06:30:14] <XXCoder> lair82: even large cnc routers?
[06:30:21] <lair82> anything
[06:31:06] <lair82> We have bought two 40,000 lb cnc turning centers from them in the last couple years
[06:31:21] <XXCoder> crazy
[06:32:36] <lair82> cars, forklifts, injection mold machines, pallets of electrical buss bar, office equipment, machining centers, cranes, lathes, you name it, they have it.
[06:33:22] <XXCoder> crazy, too bad I dont have the cold hard cash for em
[06:33:25] <fenn> little stuff too like micrometers and indicators
[06:33:51] <XXCoder> I do want micrometer that don't have that little knob at end
[06:34:11] <fenn> you don't have to use the knob
[06:34:23] <XXCoder> fenn: I like it, but I hate how far it is
[06:34:37] <XXCoder> I like other kind that dont lock like little knob but whole thing
[06:35:29] <XXCoder> hard to explain
[06:35:31] <fenn> they don't seem to have any cnc routers surprisingly
[06:35:41] <lair82> friction thimble
[06:35:47] <XXCoder> routers is pretty specialized
[06:35:55] <fenn> nah
[06:35:56] <lair82> vs ratchet knob
[06:35:56] <XXCoder> "mostly 2d"
[06:36:15] <fenn> i bet it's because they all get bought up by guys with garage shops
[06:36:30] <XXCoder> lair82: which one dont stop rotating when it touches down on part?
[06:36:43] <lair82> they move alot of machinery on a daily basis
[06:36:48] <XXCoder> so it does not push down on part and get innaccurate size
[06:37:26] <XXCoder> man sorry not thinking clearly, I made 410 parts, insane
[06:37:30] <lair82> a friction thimble lets the knurled part of the handle keep spinning after you make contact
[06:37:54] <fenn> ooo this is like my dream machine https://www.hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/USED-DECKEL-NC-VERTICAL-MILL/08151600001
[06:38:10] <XXCoder> not many a time ether, one a time, AND one of rare times I run a lathe. damn scary machine, lathes.
[06:38:57] <malcom2073> I really like HGR
[06:39:02] <malcom2073> I've gotten some linear rails from them before
[06:39:31] <lair82> fenn, we have the Hermle version of that machine, only with the rotary "4th" axis table option
[06:39:59] <lair82> Nice machines, they are all the same iron, just different names
[06:40:18] <XXCoder> https://www.hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/USED-LINTECH-LINEAR-SLIDE-TABLE/07151220219
[06:40:28] <XXCoder> good part to make cnc with I hguess
[06:41:05] <XXCoder> odd thing is it dont say what size it is.
[06:42:10] <lair82> Ous looks similar to this, ours is green, and has a Heidenhain TNC 155 control on it
[06:42:14] <lair82> http://industry-pilot.com/ru/stanok_add/upload/70e33d8c7268c778f82d2c1f7ec44a22/3977/thumbnails_vorschau/1335259905_2335.jpg
[06:42:33] <XXCoder> thats weird
[06:42:48] <XXCoder> what axles do it support? I can see Z clearly and possibly C
[06:43:07] <lair82> http://industry-pilot.com/ru/stanok_add/upload/70e33d8c7268c778f82d2c1f7ec44a22/2496/thumbnails_vorschau/1318677635_2405.jpg
[06:43:16] <lair82> this is a twin
[06:43:24] <fenn> what is the point of a C axis on a cnc mill?
[06:43:52] <fenn> does it have a B axis too?
[06:43:53] <XXCoder> dunno but I see Y there and possibly X
[06:44:14] <lair82> Those mills are actually a horizontal mill, the vertical head that you guys see, actually swings back out of the way when not in use
[06:45:05] <lair82> be back in minute, going to take a picture of ours, with the head swung out of the way
[06:45:11] <XXCoder> https://www.hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/USED-BRIDGEPORT-CNC-VMC/08150200001 looks almost like hurco
[06:50:15] <lair82> Here is our hermle setup in horizontal mode,
[06:50:18] <lair82> http://postimg.org/image/597imgfut/
[06:50:42] <lair82> and you can see the vertical swung over on the left side
[06:50:58] <XXCoder> interestinbg
[06:51:27] <lair82> That is one handy machine to have,
[06:52:30] <XXCoder> so it does really have C?
[06:52:55] <XXCoder> or it is just ability to angle jaws or something?
[06:53:45] <XXCoder> that round table is weird
[06:54:11] <lair82> real, positional/conturing C axis
[06:54:45] <XXCoder> interesting
[06:58:11] <XXCoder> hm they dont hgave good micrometer in most case.
[06:59:26] <XXCoder> what the heck https://www.hgrinc.com/productDetail/Inspection/USED-M--W-DIGITAL-MICROMETER/05150420230
[06:59:31] <XXCoder> HUGE micrometer
[06:59:35] <XXCoder> looks like inch too
[06:59:48] <XXCoder> not too sure what point is
[07:10:25] <XXCoder> oh fenn one of coworkers showed me
[07:10:43] <XXCoder> he has a micrometer that moves very fast as trumle is turned
[07:10:55] <XXCoder> looks like twice as fast, or more>
[07:11:06] <XXCoder> he said its expensive. wonder why
[07:36:34] <fenn> twice as many threads
[07:43:03] <XXCoder> guess its harder to make
[07:44:07] <fenn> if you're making 400 parts it's time to make a go/no-go gauge
[07:44:31] <XXCoder> just 410 lol
[07:44:36] <XXCoder> its actually 1,060]
[07:44:46] <XXCoder> thankfully today is my "friday"
[07:44:51] <XXCoder> and monday is vacation
[07:45:04] <fenn> any plans for your glorious weekend?
[07:45:12] <XXCoder> not sure actually
[07:45:15] <fenn> sneak into burning man
[07:45:28] <fenn> it's only a 20 hour drive
[07:45:34] <XXCoder> I do want to go look but really would need interpeter
[07:45:43] <XXCoder> have full experence
[08:03:26] <fenn> wake up skunky
[08:03:45] <XXCoder> fenn: make sure you has tomoto supplies first
[08:04:26] <XXCoder> night
[08:32:59] <lair82> I just installed from the livecd, Ubuntu 10.04, and after it got done installing, I went to the update manager, and a pop-up opened, " Your ubuntu Release is not supported anymore", big deal, so I clicked close, and it is hanging up now, any thoughts?
[08:33:48] <cradek> you should not be using ubuntu10 for new installs
[08:34:09] <lair82> go with debian?
[08:34:18] <cradek> yes
[08:35:22] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Getting_LinuxCNC.html#_getting_linuxcnc
[08:35:59] <lair82> Ok, I wanted to keep it as clean as possible, I am building a new SSD to replace the HD that has been giving me problems lately, and it is for the turning center, of which all the turning centers are running ubuntu.
[08:36:20] <lair82> But if I need to go to Debian, it is what it is.
[08:36:22] <cradek> running what version of linuxcnc?
[08:36:34] <lair82> 2.6.8
[08:36:52] <cradek> I'd sure start working on switching
[08:36:58] <cradek> it should be really easy
[08:37:11] <cradek> and of course update to 2.6.9
[08:37:54] <lair82> I'm just so used to ubuntu, thats why I was building that, I haven't fully gotten the hang of Debian
[09:05:36] <Jymmm> lair82: Ubuntu is based off of debian
[09:08:13] <lair82> I know that, but using debian is different than ubuntu, It took me a long time to get it down to science damn near on building a control, efficiently, with no glitches, and now it's like starting all over again,
[09:09:04] <lair82> I think it just because not one of our builds is a straight forward easy build, we always have crazy requirements,
[09:09:59] <lair82> That and I think trying to learn a new OS, while trying to figure out how to get a 7i80 going all at the same time wasn't a good idea on my part.
[09:10:26] <Jymmm> lol, probably not.
[09:10:48] <lair82> All with components that weren't going to work together in the first place made it even easier, :)
[09:12:57] <malcom2073> If you're going to learn to swim, might as well jump in the deep end with sharks
[09:13:00] <malcom2073> at least then it'll be over quickly :P
[09:13:45] <lair82> I jumped in, with a ribeye tied to my neck!
[09:17:08] <Jymmm> Um, whats wrong with this, seems cheap... http://search.ebay.com/321784671214
[09:22:31] <_methods> it's only 3 inches tall
[09:22:56] <Jymmm> _methods: turn your monitor sideways
[09:22:59] <_methods> lol
[09:23:33] <Jymmm> Then you have this crap for the same price, but no tank http://www.ebay.com/itm/220v-Household-Automatic-Boosting-Water-Pumps-Water-Pressure-Booster-Pump-100W-/161745165054
[09:24:05] <SpeedEvil> I don't understand what the tank does
[09:24:15] <_methods> pressurizes
[09:24:31] <SpeedEvil> Does it have a bladder in it?
[09:24:33] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Dame as on a compressor, keeps the pumps from constantly running
[09:24:40] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Yes
[09:24:49] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:25:09] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Well, it SHOULD have a bladder anyway =)
[09:29:09] <malcom2073> Heh, read the image description. Love China
[09:29:37] <Jymmm> "garden pump" ???
[09:30:07] <malcom2073> "Due to insufficient water heater water pressure, ignition bad problem!"
[09:31:18] <Jymmm> oh, the tankless one
[09:31:26] <malcom2073> Ah yeah
[09:33:20] <Jymmm> I cant tell if the black on the pump is plastic or not http://www.ebay.com/itm/1200W-1-6HP-Water-Booster-Pump-w-Pressurized-Tank-Plumbing-Garden-1000-GPH-HD-/321784671214
[09:33:30] <lair82> pcw_home, just seeing if you made any headway on that updated bit file?
[09:34:23] <pcw_home> freeby.mesanet.com/7i80hd_16_rmsvss6_8.bit
[09:36:17] <lair82> pcw_home, Thank You
[09:36:29] <pcw_home> untested...
[09:37:06] <lair82> Well, I will be testing it here shortly, lol ;)
[10:36:14] <CaptHindsight> lair82: did you ever discover what was causing that one system to randomly lose files in the home folder and desktop?
[10:47:04] <lair82> CaptHindsight, no not really, so I am building a new (just out of the box) SSD, to replace the HD
[10:48:07] <CaptHindsight> lair82: og I thought you had already swapped SSD, power supplies, APU and mainboard and it was still happening
[10:55:49] <_methods> hey can someone test this model link for me
[10:55:51] <_methods> http://www.3dvieweronline.com/models/6Zj8WfmMwTLetES/6Zj8WfmMwTLetES
[10:56:06] <_methods> i got a customer sayin it's blank
[10:59:40] <archivist> blank on my old firefox
[10:59:56] <CaptHindsight> _methods: works here and I don't have flash installed
[11:00:02] <_methods> weird
[11:00:04] <archivist> some really crappy JS in the wild these days
[11:00:06] <_methods> so blank in firefox
[11:00:16] <CaptHindsight> works here in FF
[11:00:26] <_methods> yeah works in my firefox too
[11:00:35] <CaptHindsight> v40.0.3
[11:00:48] <_methods> wonder if it's some video card thing or something
[11:01:15] <_methods> one day i'll find a 3d file viewer for customers that works for everyone
[11:01:57] <CaptHindsight> Konqueror says it needs WebGL
[11:02:07] <_methods> must be a webgl thing then i guess
[11:02:09] <_methods> damn
[11:02:24] <lair82> CaptHindsight, I didn't have a new HD when I replaced it, the one I used came from a Winxp machine that was working fine, till I yanked the hd, Dban'ed it, and loaded linuxcnc on it
[11:51:08] <zeeshan> man i dislike business sometimes
[11:51:12] <zeeshan> especially with certain people
[11:51:22] <zeeshan> so this machinery dealer says i think i can get the okuma for $5000
[11:51:26] <zeeshan> (originally he said 4000)
[11:51:32] <zeeshan> i told him, im going to pass
[11:51:40] <archivist> just a selling ajent
[11:51:40] <zeeshan> now he emails me saying $4500 loaded onto truck
[11:51:41] <zeeshan> lol
[11:51:47] <zeeshan> yep
[11:52:23] <zeeshan> so much bs going on
[11:52:26] <zeeshan> but i really do want the machine
[11:52:27] <zeeshan> :(
[11:53:06] <archivist> find the real seller :)
[11:53:18] <zeeshan> im trying :(
[11:54:03] <archivist> easiest way would be a viewing
[11:54:11] <zeeshan> haha
[11:54:21] <zeeshan> that's just pure mean :P
[11:54:32] <archivist> practical!
[12:14:19] <Sync_> that's how bsnz works
[12:15:17] <zeeshan> bsnz?
[12:15:44] <zeeshan> oh
[12:15:44] <zeeshan> :P
[12:17:23] <CaptHindsight> I'd go back to the $4k and ask him why he thought you were an idiot?
[12:18:44] <zeeshan> i got this random number from usa saying he wants to pay pal me for my cnc lathe
[12:18:44] <zeeshan> lol
[12:18:52] <zeeshan> typical scam bullshit
[12:19:06] <zeeshan> too many doofuses in the span of a couple days
[12:19:06] <Sync_> lel
[12:19:06] <zeeshan> =/
[12:19:13] <CaptHindsight> well the insult should be worth at least $500
[12:19:25] <Sync_> hmm, this new project could be interesting
[12:20:00] <Sync_> I got asked to develop a strain measurement system for turbocharger blades
[12:20:52] <zeeshan> nice!
[12:21:15] <Sync_> apparently that's a new thing
[12:21:25] <zeeshan> that must be ahard task to achieve
[12:21:36] <zeeshan> you can't really use optical strain measurement cause its at 50,000-150,000 rpm
[12:21:49] <Sync_> more like 250krpm
[12:21:49] <zeeshan> strain gages -- not sure how you'd do that..
[12:22:02] <CaptHindsight> well you can if the camera fits inside the turbo
[12:22:03] <Sync_> yeah I'm debating what to use
[12:22:13] <Sync_> BSG would be nice
[12:22:18] <Sync_> straingauges are easy
[12:22:21] <zeeshan> http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/turbo/turbomaps/280z_flow_on_T04B-60-1.gif
[12:22:24] <zeeshan> jus tlooking at a typical turbo
[12:22:28] <Sync_> but the instrumentation is hard
[12:22:30] <zeeshan> limit is around 100000
[12:22:33] <zeeshan> which turbo is 250k rpm?
[12:22:44] <Sync_> smart car
[12:22:49] <Sync_> 24mm inlet iirc
[12:23:09] <zeeshan> how would you get electricaal signl
[12:23:12] <zeeshan> from spinning blades?
[12:23:17] <zeeshan> *electrical
[12:23:29] <Sync_> that is the hard problem
[12:23:40] <zeeshan> youre also adding a bit of mass to the blades
[12:23:42] <zeeshan> that are very light
[12:23:45] <zeeshan> so that might be a prob too
[12:23:50] <Sync_> there are very small strain gauges
[12:23:51] <Sync_> well
[12:23:56] <Sync_> it only is for development
[12:23:58] <Sync_> so pfft
[12:24:00] <zeeshan> haha
[12:24:11] <zeeshan> i think personally
[12:24:13] <zeeshan> a high speed camera
[12:24:18] <Sync_> nope
[12:24:20] <zeeshan> using optical strain is the best way to go
[12:24:27] <zeeshan> its easy to implement
[12:24:28] <Sync_> you need ~1MHz bandwidth
[12:24:36] <Sync_> so cameras are out
[12:24:47] <zeeshan> laser
[12:24:47] <zeeshan> :D
[12:24:49] <Sync_> and flex might only be ~3/100mm
[12:24:51] <CaptHindsight> are the blades to be tested in the turbo housing?
[12:24:57] <Sync_> you need a cont signal
[12:25:03] <Sync_> CaptHindsight: on a running engine
[12:25:29] <zeeshan> definitely an interesting task
[12:25:49] <Sync_> yep
[12:26:10] <Sync_> the plan is either inductive or RF
[12:26:16] <Sync_> or completely passive
[12:27:10] <CaptHindsight> Sync_: strain in which direction and on what part of the blades?
[12:27:51] <Sync_> well they'd be happy with one channel
[12:27:59] <Sync_> but at best 4 places in 2 axis
[12:28:10] <Sync_> which is not habbening
[12:28:23] <Sync_> my next idea was a BSG and a bored shaft
[12:28:31] <Sync_> so you can shine a laser into the front
[12:28:37] <Sync_> and it shines out the turbine side
[12:30:36] <CaptHindsight> is this on the intake side?
[12:30:43] <Sync_> obviously
[12:30:46] <CaptHindsight> or do they want both
[12:30:57] <Sync_> the turbine side is impossible
[12:31:07] <CaptHindsight> heh, you should see what people ask for
[12:31:37] <Sync_> people that make turbos kinda know thier applications
[12:33:41] <Sync_> but it seems like a fun project to drop some money on
[12:39:36] <CaptHindsight> heh, just had another giant OEM try to change a quote from prepay to net30 for custom work
[12:39:55] <_methods> sleezey
[12:40:01] <lair82> What do you do CaptHindsight?
[12:40:01] <Sync_> "NO?"
[12:40:19] <_methods> ups a box of dicks to them
[12:40:45] <CaptHindsight> lair82: mostly lab R&D
[12:40:57] <lair82> For who?
[12:41:26] <lair82> I like _methods idea though.
[12:41:52] <_methods> hehe
[12:42:08] <CaptHindsight> any with $ besides terrorists or circus clowns
[12:42:21] <CaptHindsight> independent clowns are OK
[12:42:26] <_methods> hahahahah
[12:42:33] <_methods> indie clowns
[12:42:50] <_methods> aren't they usually child molesters and serial killers?
[12:43:05] <CaptHindsight> yes, maybe I had that backwards
[12:43:11] <_methods> lol
[12:43:25] <lair82> Put on the packing slip, "I am sure after trying to modify payment terms, you know what to do with these"
[12:43:34] <CaptHindsight> lol
[12:44:17] <CaptHindsight> well the OEM was part of big insider stock scandal a few years ago
[12:44:25] <CaptHindsight> so should be no surprise
[12:55:56] <CaptHindsight> heh, and irony is that they sent me a 10 page SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY (SR) POLICY last week
[12:56:18] <CaptHindsight> guess it only works one way :)
[13:01:19] <Sync_> :D
[13:01:27] <Sync_> well too big to fail
[13:25:07] <archivist> the filing machine has filed :) http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=filing+machine
[13:25:51] <archivist> easier to use than I expected
[13:26:58] <cradek> neato
[13:27:10] <MacGalempsy> good afternoon guys
[13:27:11] <cradek> tilting table I assume?
[13:27:36] <archivist> yes 10 degrees either way
[13:28:04] <cradek> that's a useful tool
[13:28:10] <archivist> missing the over arm file/saw support and belt guard
[13:28:24] <cradek> I bet I'd use it regularly
[13:29:25] <archivist> it has restored quite well considering the number of years it has been in the garden :)
[13:29:46] <archivist> I do recommend a solid bench for one
[13:30:30] <archivist> had to place the working part over a leg to stop the shaking
[13:31:01] <Jymmm> archivist: stop the part or your leg from shaking?
[13:31:19] <archivist> the machine vivrates the table
[13:31:26] <archivist> vibrates
[13:31:27] <Jymmm> ah
[13:31:42] <Jymmm> archivist: No worries, I speak typo =)
[13:32:00] <archivist> I only do tyop thigh
[13:32:04] <archivist> though
[13:36:51] <MacGalempsy> guys, PID tuning on this VMC is driving me nuts. couple of questions.1) Prior to tuning, How long should I move an axis, to consider it warmed up? 2) would greasing the axis before tuning help improve following error?
[13:38:33] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy: Did you sacrifice a Mach3 user to the demi gawds BEFORE PID tuning?
[13:39:02] <MacGalempsy> Jymmm: at this point I am willing to try anything
[13:39:33] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy: Well, it's too late now, you have todo it BEFORE starting, else bad mojo
[13:40:23] <MacGalempsy> its like no matter what, there is an initial jolt that puts the following error to 0.003 before dropping off
[13:40:48] <MacGalempsy> after the initial start, it drops to 0.001
[13:40:55] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy: It's clearly stated in the LinuxCNC manual; Volume 32, page 1265, section 43, paragraph, line 942
[13:41:11] <LatheBuilder2> MacGalempsy, I only waited a minute or so after startup. Greasing/oiling helps to start but you do not want that to be the limiter. In spec when oiled, out when dry
[13:42:08] <MacGalempsy> LatheBuilder2: ok. the machine was sitting for a few years, so I bet it is dry
[13:43:30] <PCW> MacGalempsy: initial spike might be stiction or FF2 setting (if its very short is probably stiction)
[13:44:01] <LatheBuilder2> what i meant was: oil it but don't tune it so close to the line that forgetting the oil one day puts it out of the following error limit
[13:44:45] <MacGalempsy> what has happened 3 times now while trying is, I get the wave to start to look pretty good. then to increase the accuracy the P value has to go up. after a while of testing with the elevated P value it seems stable. However, on a cold start after tuning, the motors hum when linuxcnc is started
[13:44:52] <ganzuul> http://i.imgur.com/e5nTl4E.gifv
[13:44:56] <PCW> if it last as long as accel phase its amenable to FF2 tuning
[13:45:00] <LatheBuilder2> have you seen John's tuning tutorials on gnipsel.com?
[13:45:18] <MacGalempsy> yes, I have seen his page
[13:45:42] <MacGalempsy> everytime I attempt tuning, his page is open on my browser
[13:46:43] <MacGalempsy> his example uses P FF1 and FF2. from what I read, on the axis, you should not need I nor FFO but D.
[13:46:51] <PCW> for velocity mode drives, FF1 is most of the tuning (just commanding the proper velocity)
[13:47:49] <PCW> FF0 make no sense, D only makes sense if the drives themselves are not tuned properly
[13:49:20] <MacGalempsy> I recall a conversation with the Tech support at the company, and he said the drives were extensively tuned for the product manufacturer (Light Machine Corp)
[13:49:35] <PCW> a small amount of dithering (humm) is OK and hard to avoid unless you have very high res encoders, this is different than oscillation
[13:50:33] <MacGalempsy> PCW what is an acceptable level of following error?
[13:50:49] <PCW> how long is a string :-)
[13:51:41] <MacGalempsy> these ambiguous answers kill me around here
[13:52:11] <PCW> 3 mills seems pretty big but might be mainly stiction if the ways are not properly lubricated
[13:54:14] <PCW> I would increase P until you get serious oscillations and then back off about 30% and not worry about a couple count dirthering
[13:54:24] <PCW> dithering
[13:57:29] <PCW> BTW dither zither is a good tongue twister...
[13:59:09] <ganzuul> lmao
[13:59:36] <ganzuul> Just discovered VXJunkies on reddit. Came back to read the above.
[13:59:47] <ganzuul> https://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies
[14:01:19] <furrywolf> yay, internet mostly back to normal today.
[14:03:16] <Tom_itx> was it ever normal?
[14:03:16] <ganzuul> I don't recall a single day when the internet was normal.
[14:03:58] <furrywolf> it's more normal than yesterday, where for most of the day no one in this or surrounding counties had any at all, then late at night it was partially restored but entirely useless...
[14:05:05] <Jymmm> furrywolf: county outage? Somebody crashed into a pigeon coop?
[14:05:16] <furrywolf> our fiber optic cable got cut, again... happens every few years. when it gets cut, we (being this county and the counties on all sides of it) lose internet, cell phones, credit card processing, banking, long-distance landline connections, etc, etc, etc.
[14:06:05] <furrywolf> this one was worse than previous ones, since apparantly even local landline calls were not going through. apparantly the phone company has re-engineered something such that even local calls depend on the long-distance link. this annoyed a lot of people, including the police department, when they found out they couldn't get any phone calls, not even 911 calls.
[14:06:08] * Jymmm hands furrywolf a blanket and fire starting kit... ug smoke signals ug ug ug
[14:06:43] <furrywolf> their suggestion was to send someone to the police or fire department buildings in case of an emergency, like it was the 1800s. :P
[14:06:51] <ganzuul> furrywolf: It's possible to equivocate what you said about 'normal internet' so as to mean that the content and people would be normal. Internet people are often considered to be intractably wierd.
[14:07:21] <Jymmm> furrywolf: WTF?! Did they roll out the horse drawn fire pumper trucks too?
[14:07:46] <furrywolf> ganzuul: ah, but since it has always been this way, that is, in fact, normal. :P
[14:08:46] <Jymmm> furrywolf: The ironic thing is that they had copper interconnecting the CO's at one time (so it's still there), but even when going over to fiber, why didn't they keep the copper trunks around for CYA
[14:08:57] <furrywolf> people talk about how reliable the internet is, how it can route around problems, etc, etc... and yet we have 3-4 counties all depending on a single 200mi run of fiber strung along the freeway... :P
[14:09:36] <ganzuul> It's not buried?
[14:09:42] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Anyone who says that is full of shit. Working in a Tier 1 DC, we know better.
[14:09:51] <furrywolf> they keep saying there will be a backup line installed one of these days, for 200mi along the OTHER freeway....
[14:10:17] <furrywolf> ganzuul: it's buried in some places, on poles in others. most of the area here has unstable ground and burying things is a bad idea. plus it costs more.
[14:10:22] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Usually it's an ATM loop
[14:10:50] <furrywolf> the last big outage we had was due to a house alongside the freeway catching fire and burning through the cable.
[14:11:08] <ganzuul> P2P internet infrastructure: http://www.servalproject.org/
[14:11:09] <Jymmm> furrywolf: You should see the one in the bay area... goes from SF down to SJ and encircles the entire bay
[14:11:20] <furrywolf> this one, at least when I checked last night, was apparantly a cut, but there were conflicting stories as to whether it was an accident or vandalism.
[14:12:40] <furrywolf> ""Yesterday afternoon, about six hours or more into the outage, it was blaming the failure of its fiber-optic line on a “rock slide” near Ukiah. Today it’s saying that the line was deliberately slashed"
[14:13:06] <Jymmm> https://www.fbi.gov/sanfrancisco/press-releases/2015/fbi-and-local-law-enforcement-seek-publics-assistance-concerning-severed-fiber-optic-cables-in-the-east-bay-and-south-bay
[14:13:11] <ganzuul> Of course, the Serval project has an interesting local minimum issue with Wifi not being long-reach enough, and not enough people knowing about it to make a robust network.
[14:13:41] <Jymmm> Ah, here we go... a map of the vandal cuts http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_28413281/fbi-seeking-fiber-optic-cable-vandals
[14:14:54] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Well, glad you're back !
[14:15:15] <furrywolf> heh, apparantly they managed to reroute 911 directly to the state wildfire department (calfire), where they were able to radio the police.
[14:15:55] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Do you have any two way radio?
[14:16:14] <furrywolf> only a CB. got rid of my limited amount of ham stuff.
[14:16:52] <furrywolf> now, the CB is SSB, and I have a 50W linear in a box somewhere, so I could probably reach pretty far with it... :P
[14:17:03] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Maybe it's time to start looking around gubermint auctions and the like for some new/used gear
[14:17:07] <ganzuul> Got one of these in event of society breaking down, tribal marauders, or unreasoning Animal King: http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-Dual-Band-Two-Way-Radio-Black/dp/B007H4VT7A
[14:17:23] <Tom_itx> groundhogs?
[14:17:39] <ganzuul> Terrorist groundhogs.
[14:18:15] <furrywolf> Jymmm: those are old.
[14:18:38] <Jymmm> furrywolf: what is old?
[14:19:11] <furrywolf> the article you pasted with a map of the cuts. those are old.
[14:19:16] <furrywolf> "a rural area approximately 1.5 miles south of Burke Hill Road in Ukiah, California." is yesterday's.
[14:19:27] <Jymmm> furrywolf: ah
[14:19:38] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Blame the FBI, not me =)
[14:19:49] * Tom_itx cites Jymmm for posting bogus information on the interweb
[14:19:58] <furrywolf> I blame you for pasting an article dated over two months ago into a discussion on a current event. :P
[14:20:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: HEy, fiber cut in the last 6 months is "current" enough =)
[14:20:31] <Jymmm> intentional fiber cut, that is
[14:21:18] <furrywolf> it's an interesting choice of vandalism... it probably does hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage with minimal effort or risk.
[14:21:28] <Jymmm> Ha
[14:21:51] <furrywolf> since credit card processing, atms, and banking all go down, non-cash transactions pretty much stop...
[14:22:22] <Jymmm> Most General Contractors go out of business if one of their guys on a tractor cuts a fiber line as it's typically a million dollars an hour in lost revenue.
[14:23:27] <furrywolf> heh, when they were doing some roadwork at the local university about a decade or so ago, the same company managed to backhoe through the natural gas main THREE TIMES, on different days. I always considered that to be pretty tallented...
[14:23:41] <Jymmm> lmao
[14:24:07] <Jymmm> Yo dumbass.... STOP mucking with the gas line... mkay?
[14:25:46] <furrywolf> " He said they believe the vandals thought it was copper wiring — which is valuable these days — and chopped it in half. When they realized it wasn’t copper they just dropped it and left." have I mentioned how much I hate tweekers?
[14:26:27] <Jymmm> tweekers, sketchers, homeless, etc
[14:27:34] <furrywolf> it's still a pretty sad comment on our infrastructure that four counties depend on a single fiber bundle for all internet, phone, and other communications.
[14:28:03] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, do your panhandlers wear a suit and tie and carry a business card?
[14:28:33] <Jymmm> Well, NoCal counties dont bring in a lot of revenue like SF/LA/OC counties
[14:28:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: No, just a pair harborfreight wire cutters
[14:29:08] <Jymmm> ...free with coupon
[14:29:33] <furrywolf> I bet the failure of local landline connections this time around was due to more centralization of billing or something... the previous times local calls always worked. I bet now they have to connect to some nationwide servers for billing or something.
[14:30:15] <furrywolf> saves the phone company money, at the cost of eliminating the ability to island when there's failures.
[14:30:25] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Eh, I doubt it. Probably a software glitch in the switches
[14:31:16] <Jymmm> furrywolf: They forgot to add themselves to the billing system, and it shutoff the fiber line for non payment to themselves =)
[14:31:49] <sabir> hi all
[14:34:11] <kengu> helo
[14:36:43] <sabir> any one know what is difference in pulse/ direction and step/direction ?
[14:37:16] <kengu> where?
[14:37:22] <cradek> probably no difference
[14:38:16] <kengu> is there a choice somewhere to pick one?
[14:39:19] <sabir> i have adtech Q7 closed loop drive i am unable to move my motor with linuxcnc
[14:39:28] <sabir> please help me
[14:41:11] <CaptHindsight> sabir: maybe polarity
[14:41:49] <CaptHindsight> check the Enable signal and power at the drive if it acts dead
[14:42:32] <CaptHindsight> sabir: does it move at all? Are any lights on the drive? Give us all the info.
[14:44:26] <sabir> three configuraion on drive pulse+direction Pulse+pulse A=B
[14:44:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.purelogic.ru/files/downloads/doc/Driver/QS7.pdf is this the drive QS7 vs Q7?
[14:46:05] <sabir> right now drive is on Pulse + direction
[14:46:19] <sabir> yes this is adtech drive
[14:47:53] <MacGalempsy> is it possible since I bipassed the tachs (grounded them) that tuning with just the encoders will not work properly?
[14:49:03] <CaptHindsight> sabir: what is between the PC and the QS7 drive? A parallel port breakout board or Mesa card?
[14:49:13] <sabir> yes
[14:49:37] <CaptHindsight> sabir: which one?
[14:51:02] <sabir> let me paste link
[14:53:52] <sabir> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MACH3-interface-board-cnc-engraving-machine-5-axis-stepper-motor-driver-interface-board-with-optocoupler-isolation/839121_1541162478.html
[14:54:31] <CaptHindsight> I have the same board sitting in front of me
[14:55:10] <sabir> yes i see on youtube many ppl run this board
[14:55:37] <sabir> right now usb for power and LPT is connected
[14:55:57] <sabir> also on +5v and pin 2 and 3 is connected with drive
[14:56:24] <CaptHindsight> sabir: the problem can be just about anything but the most common is the two levels of optoisolation, since BOB has optos and the QS7 also has optos
[14:56:46] <CaptHindsight> BOB= breakout board
[14:56:48] <sabir> drive pin 24 25 26 and 27
[14:57:54] <sabir> can you please advice me what to do and what is two levels of optoisloation ?
[15:05:03] <CaptHindsight> sabir: looks like your BOB doesn't have optos on the Step and Direction, so that makes it easier
[15:05:32] <sabir> ok
[15:05:52] <sabir> so what to do know :)
[15:06:03] <SpeedEvil> sabir: First step.
[15:06:10] <SpeedEvil> Kill all the laywers.
[15:06:24] <sabir> done it
[15:08:12] <sabir> CApthinsight please advice how to troubleshoot this ?
[15:08:16] <CaptHindsight> sabir: check all the connections and power
[15:08:16] <SpeedEvil> sorry.
[15:08:32] <sabir> already checked many time
[15:09:10] <CaptHindsight> sabir: I'll be around later, double check the polarity of the enable, step and direction with a meter
[15:09:28] <CaptHindsight> you might have to invert them for your drive
[15:10:19] <sabir> please explain
[15:11:48] <sabir> when will you come back ?
[15:18:40] <CaptHindsight> later
[15:20:05] <malcom2073> heh
[15:31:27] <kengu> hmm
[15:40:30] <sabir> hi
[15:40:43] <sabir> i was disconnected
[15:44:39] <sabir> please help i want to trouble shoot my drives and emc2
[15:44:44] <sabir> linuxcnc
[15:44:50] <sabir> my motors are not moveing
[15:46:40] <sabir> :)
[15:47:38] <MrSunshine> steppers ? servos ?
[15:47:54] <MrSunshine> are the signals the right way around ?
[15:47:57] <MrSunshine> enable, step, dir
[15:48:20] <MrSunshine> my bob was so i had to have things inverted as when activated it pulls the signals low =)
[15:48:30] <MrSunshine> or something like that
[15:48:30] <sabir> servo
[15:49:10] <MrSunshine> sorry know nothing about how servos work =)
[15:49:46] <sabir> the drive i bought is from china :(
[15:49:52] <sabir> and they are unable to help me
[15:50:22] <sabir> even engineer do not know english and he did'nt reply
[15:51:56] <sabir> any one configure BOB with servo drive :)
[15:51:57] <Sync_> they usually have a step dir input, apply a signal manually
[15:52:27] <sabir> they ask pulse+direction
[15:52:41] <sabir> writen in manules
[15:52:52] <Sync_> it is the same
[15:52:55] <Sync_> just apply it manually
[15:53:13] <sabir> how ?
[15:54:05] <Sync_> two wires and possibly a powersupply
[15:54:44] <sabir> can you refer me any doc ?
[15:55:45] <Sync_> no
[15:55:50] <Sync_> that should be simple enough
[15:56:56] <sabir> please explain
[15:57:32] <Sync_> which drive do you have?
[15:59:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.purelogic.ru/files/downloads/doc/Driver/QS7.pdf this drive
[15:59:49] <sabir> http://www.purelogic.ru/files/downloads/doc/Driver/QS7.pdf
[16:00:26] <Sync_> ah I should scroll up
[16:01:22] <sabir> :)
[16:02:14] <Sync_> ah yeah just apply pulses to pin 25/24
[16:02:42] <sabir> yes
[16:03:37] <sabir> required pulse frequency <= 500khz
[16:04:20] <Sync_> yeah so what, if you are just pulsing manually that should be acheivable
[16:06:34] <sabir> with manule pulse i just check that motor moves or not. am i right ?
[16:06:37] <Sync_> yes
[16:07:54] <sabir> Adtech have controller cards but do not have MMI
[16:08:28] <MrSunshine> checked voltages ?
[16:08:40] <sabir> we have to develop own in C or any programming language
[16:09:00] <sabir> yes from card out put 4.9 out put
[16:09:18] <sabir> i have BOB card
[16:09:22] <MrSunshine> can you toggle that ?
[16:09:30] <MrSunshine> so you know the signals get throught as they should
[16:09:39] <sabir> yes
[16:09:45] <sabir> but drive is just silence
[16:10:48] <sabir> maybe its step space, step time problem
[16:11:32] <sabir> i am sure that signals are going but what i feel that drive do not understand signals
[16:11:55] <Sync_> just look at the signals with an oscilloscope
[16:12:49] <CaptHindsight> check the enable and e-stop, are there any lights on the drive?
[16:14:19] <MrSunshine> ah now i remember .. my bob gave +5V the back way also to the signals .. so i had +5V - +5V when low, then +5V - GND when high
[16:14:30] <sabir> i did not installed e-stop
[16:14:37] <MrSunshine> was a bit strange to begin with =)
[16:15:41] <sabir> e-stop necessary for testing
[16:16:22] <sabir> i just want o check if motor moves and then install every thing later :}
[16:19:20] <MrSunshine> what bob do you have ?
[16:21:29] <CaptHindsight> dis bob http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MACH3-interface-board-cnc-engraving-machine-5-axis-stepper-motor-driver-interface-board-with-optocoupler-isolation/839121_1541162478.html
[16:28:12] <sabir> any idea ?
[16:35:47] <Deejay> gn8
[16:38:39] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: "this is high cost, function card...." lol so there is cheaper? :P
[16:50:42] <chris_99> Is there actually a strict definition on what a servomotor is out of interest, roughly it's a motor with an encoder?
[16:52:20] <Wolf_> anything with position feedback seems to fall under servo name
[16:53:03] <chris_99> but it seems a closed loop stepper doesn't?
[16:53:22] <JT-Shop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo
[16:53:38] <sabir> yes motor is with encoder
[16:53:56] <sabir> servo
[16:54:32] <sabir> its 3 am i am going to sleep
[16:55:20] <sabir> Capthindsight please let me know if you found any thing please also advice me any troubleshooting document so i can recheck each and every thing
[16:55:36] <CaptHindsight> sabir: just ask in the channel
[16:56:30] <CaptHindsight> we all come and go and occasionally answer questions or make nuisances of ourselves
[16:56:57] <Wolf_> I need to figure out what happened to my y axis this morning, was running and I fell asleep, woke up to the y axis jammed :/
[16:58:21] <XXCoder> Wolf_: derbis?
[16:58:46] <sabir> channel ?
[16:59:07] <Wolf_> dunno, might have got alum dust in the Y lead nut
[16:59:17] <CaptHindsight> sabir: this is an IRC channel
[16:59:27] <Wolf_> or bearing jammed
[16:59:43] <CaptHindsight> you're in channel #Linuxcnc
[16:59:58] <sabir> ok thanks
[17:00:14] <sabir> yes i have useing this crc after 10 years
[17:00:22] <Wolf_> least it made it for 4hrs before it locked up
[17:00:46] <sabir> mirc sorry
[17:01:02] <sabir> thanks for your help
[17:01:06] <XXCoder> mirc lol havent used mirc for long time
[17:01:08] <XXCoder> I use hexchat
[17:01:24] <sabir> :)
[17:01:26] <sabir> bye
[17:01:32] <XXCoder> though it has annoying bug for windows version that crashes it if disconnect/reconnect enough times
[17:01:38] * XXCoder uses linux
[17:01:56] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/Parts/CT%20Mount%2001.jpg
[17:02:04] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/Parts/CT%20Mount%2002.jpg
[17:04:25] <malcom2073> XXCoder: https://xkcd.com/272/ Whenever someone says that, this comes to mind
[17:04:52] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: what are the coated with?
[17:05:04] <XXCoder> malcom2073: wow that was what I just did
[17:05:10] <XXCoder> malcom2073: I just returned lol
[17:05:16] <malcom2073> Lol
[17:05:16] <malcom2073> Nice
[17:05:22] <malcom2073> People still shop at best buy?
[17:05:38] <JT-Shop> bed liner lol
[17:05:40] <Wolf_> I do… not often
[17:05:46] <XXCoder> best buy meh
[17:06:16] <malcom2073> Man... I have to replace a CMOS battery in my one PC. I've... *never* had to do that before
[17:06:18] <Wolf_> got my washer/dryer and fridge there
[17:06:47] <XXCoder> malcom2073: I need to do that for my 10+ years old laptop lol
[17:06:48] <Wolf_> all 3 less then 1/2 priced
[17:06:50] <XXCoder> but whatever
[17:06:57] <malcom2073> Oh nice Wolf
[17:07:13] <malcom2073> Well I'm buying a pack of 5 batteries, you can come by and get one for freei f you want, I'll only ever use 1-2 :P
[17:07:17] <Wolf_> scratch/dented/floor models
[17:07:49] <XXCoder> crc2032 right?
[17:07:54] <XXCoder> I have in least 20 lol
[17:08:01] <malcom2073> Yeah heh
[17:08:07] <malcom2073> Wolf_: That's the way to buy stuff
[17:08:09] <XXCoder> it was for my book light but it broke
[17:08:13] <malcom2073> too many stores won't sell their floor modelsnowadays though
[17:08:16] <XXCoder> so yeah :P
[17:08:32] <WalterN> I dont want to do any more machining today
[17:08:36] <WalterN> :-x
[17:08:51] <XXCoder> definitely not in mood too, not after 410 parts yeserdauy
[17:08:55] <XXCoder> insane
[17:09:02] <WalterN> well
[17:09:32] <WalterN> lately I've been working on collecting data necessary to try and get a replacement screen for my lathe
[17:09:49] <WalterN> in-between I've been working on a small job thing
[17:10:04] <WalterN> on the mill
[17:10:06] <Wolf_> I need to take the y axis apart on my mill but I don’t want to take the part off the table, this should be fun...
[17:10:27] <XXCoder> Wolf_: try troubleshoot before renove
[17:10:30] <XXCoder> see what happened
[17:10:52] <XXCoder> I recall one time had joint following error on Y because chips had piled up in back
[17:10:58] <Wolf_> simple, y axis lead won’t turn
[17:11:12] <XXCoder> weird
[17:11:48] <Wolf_> I may have forgot to grease the bearings on the leads tho
[17:27:10] <WalterN> well poo
[17:27:25] <WalterN> oh, my ZNC must have had an issue...
[17:53:12] <furrywolf> yay
[17:53:36] <furrywolf> landlord just stopped by to top the eucalyptus tree that was (past tense!) shading my panels in the evening.
[17:55:25] <XXCoder> top removal to make it shorter?
[17:55:31] <XXCoder> for fall safety and all?
[17:55:53] <furrywolf> make it shorter so it stops casting a shadow over my solar panels
[17:56:04] <XXCoder> nice
[18:07:52] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yay
[18:08:01] <Wolf_Mill> well now... this doesnt look right
[18:08:21] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: though I guess more important in a month or two
[18:09:21] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/GnZe96O.jpg
[18:09:23] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[18:09:29] <XXCoder> furrywolf: seems my van don't like cold
[18:09:38] <XXCoder> idle is worse now, only when warmed up though
[18:09:45] <XXCoder> feels like misfires
[18:10:00] <XXCoder> dang Wolf_Mill
[18:12:09] <furrywolf> got it a little too tight trying to take up backlash?
[18:12:26] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: how much panel now?
[18:12:48] <Wolf_Mill> no, balls caught the cage and rolled it in to the race
[18:13:32] <Sync_> 0o
[18:13:58] <furrywolf> around 2.5kw.
[18:14:53] <XXCoder> any mossible ideas fur?
[18:15:13] <furrywolf> ?
[18:15:17] <XXCoder> see above
[18:15:32] <furrywolf> ... mossible? lol
[18:15:38] <XXCoder> possible lol
[18:15:58] <Wolf_Mill> damn, and I didnt buy spare bearings like a dumbass
[18:16:02] <XXCoder> only typo god knows how that typo happened.
[18:16:04] <furrywolf> yeah. drive it until it stops driving. :P
[18:16:28] <XXCoder> I was wonderinf if it was bad spark wires or something
[18:17:03] <furrywolf> no
[18:17:15] <furrywolf> secondary ignition problems always show up worse at throttle than at idle
[18:17:46] <XXCoder> yeah it's weird, only when engine is warm does it have idle issues, and cold makes it worse
[18:18:51] <Wolf_Mill> oh, in that pic, the chewed up part on the right is the same part as the one on the far left...
[18:23:09] <furrywolf> spark voltage goes up with cylinder pressure, which goes up with throttle opening... so if the ignition is weak, it shows up as misfiring worse the more throttle you give it.
[18:23:43] <XXCoder> so I guess it isn't sparkplug wires
[18:23:55] <XXCoder> would bum oxygen sensor cause it?
[18:24:52] <Sync_> maybe shitty plugs?
[18:24:59] <XXCoder> new ones
[18:25:09] <XXCoder> I didnt get cheapest but step above it
[18:25:23] <furrywolf> bad o2 sensors usually cause it to run rich, which usually does not cause misfires.
[18:25:35] <XXCoder> new distuator and rotor too, which greatly improved mpg
[18:25:42] <XXCoder> ran more smoothly
[18:25:48] <XXCoder> but idle still damned same
[18:26:13] <Wolf_Mill> amazon, really... http://i.imgur.com/hZxwxlP.jpg
[18:26:21] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: Crack in the intake deflector dish.
[18:27:02] <furrywolf> you could have dirty fuel injectors, a bad maf sensor, a bad map sensor, a bad temperature sensor (or two!), or about fifty other things. Drive it until it gets worse. then it's easier to figure out. :P
[18:27:08] <furrywolf> vacuum leaks
[18:27:38] <XXCoder> its almost getting to point where I HAVE to shift to park at red lights
[18:27:42] <XXCoder> so it dont run rough
[18:27:57] <XXCoder> even park mode its bit rougher than it should be but not too bad
[18:29:09] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/23/0e/53/large/0996b43f80230e53.gif
[18:29:11] <XXCoder> this one
[18:29:13] <XXCoder> ?
[18:29:34] <Sync_> stuck EGR?
[18:29:51] <XXCoder> it used to have egr flow errors
[18:30:00] <XXCoder> stopped ever since I fixed dist. rotor
[18:30:06] <XXCoder> replaced more like
[18:30:20] <furrywolf> lol
[18:30:24] <XXCoder> havent had any error for months now
[18:30:52] <Wolf_Mill> so, this bearing this is a problem, 3d print a new ball cage?
[18:31:30] <Tom_itx> i miss the days you could clean the carb and change the points & plugs and be on your way
[18:32:00] <XXCoder> it was bad in other ways back then. leaded gas, pollution
[18:32:17] <Tom_itx> for all the 'advancements' cars don't get that much better mileage than ever
[18:32:27] <furrywolf> carbs were excellent at never quite running right.
[18:32:50] <XXCoder> yeah pollution control hit mpg pretty hard, been recovered since then, and surpassing now
[18:33:04] <Wolf_Mill> ^ my '71 I would keep a screwdriver in the glovebox just for adjusting the carb
[18:33:15] <Wolf_Mill> which seemed to be needed every other week
[18:33:32] <XXCoder> probably sensive to weather? lol
[18:33:37] <Wolf_Mill> very
[18:34:05] <furrywolf> weather, atmospheric pressure, temperature, exact octane of the fuel last added,...
[18:34:11] <Tom_itx> they were simple to work on
[18:34:44] <Wolf_Mill> simple it was
[18:35:24] <Tom_itx> you didn't have to worry about your temp sensor affecting whether it would run or not
[18:35:36] <Wolf_Mill> 3 wires to the whole motor not counting the starter
[18:35:44] <Tom_itx> s/temp/any sensor
[18:37:09] <Wolf_Mill> the '93 ECM in my one truck doesnt have that issue, half the sensors are just voltage divider resisors now lol
[18:37:40] <furrywolf> ... YOU ever take apart a non-trivial carb? you've got a dozen orifices, one or two float valves that are often adjusted by bending a metal tab, putting it all back together, seeing you bent it too far, taking it all back apart, etc, etc, one or two diaphragm or piston pumps, one or two vacuum operated power valves that always stick and often make putting it back together fucking annoying, emulsion tubes that subtly clog, gaskets that
[18:38:02] <furrywolf> carbs stopped being simple to work on around about the late '60s. :P
[18:38:04] <Tom_itx> there were a couple that were a bitch
[18:38:28] <Wolf_Mill> sounds like a qudrajet
[18:38:35] <Tom_itx> that would be one
[18:38:59] <Wolf_Mill> I had a holly 750cfm double pumper on my '71
[18:39:03] <XXCoder> well thanks, gonna check vacuum later as well as that crack possibility
[18:39:05] <XXCoder> laters
[18:39:08] <Tom_itx> so did i
[18:39:24] <Wolf_Mill> those are nice and simple
[18:39:27] <malcom2073> <3 fuel injection
[18:39:46] <Wolf_Mill> TDI imo :P
[18:40:18] <Tom_itx> i like fuel injection too
[18:40:24] <furrywolf> vacuum secondary systems with assorted orifices and check valves, dashpots, synchronizing multiple carbs on performance engines, stupid issues like engine-mounted fuel pumps suffering from vapor lock, a zillion little pushrods linking the top half and bottom half of the carb, to work the choke, choke break, fast idle, etc, that have to be carefully removed and reinstalled with tiny clips or cotter pins, choke adjustments, choke heaters
[18:40:24] <Tom_itx> except when it's not working right
[18:40:29] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/PDmtpSd.jpg
[18:40:33] <malcom2073> That's why I use open source fuel injection
[18:40:37] <malcom2073> if it doesn't work right, it's my fault
[18:41:06] <furrywolf> vacuum choke break, mechanical choke break, anti-dieseling solenoids, coasting bypass valves, ...
[18:41:09] <Tom_itx> not the 68332 project was it?
[18:41:43] <malcom2073> No, we use a s12x
[18:42:08] <furrywolf> I'm sure I'm forgetting half the pieces in a modern carb. :P
[18:42:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.diy-efi.org/efi332/faq.htm
[18:42:36] <malcom2073> That website is long dead though
[18:42:43] <Tom_itx> i loved that chip
[18:42:44] <malcom2073> http://libreems.org/
[18:43:51] <Wolf_Mill> so any opinions on the ball bearing cage?
[18:44:12] <Tom_itx> it was designed to hold balls evenly spaced in a bearing
[18:44:19] <Tom_itx> other than that i missed your q
[18:44:25] <furrywolf> replace with new bearing assembley?
[18:44:30] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/GnZe96O.jpg < bad day
[18:45:20] <Wolf_Mill> cage on the right wanted to become a race I think
[18:47:03] * furrywolf still isn't sure what would cause such a failure
[18:47:16] <furrywolf> operating it too loose? no grease?
[18:47:28] <furrywolf> the fix is to buy a pair of new bearings.
[18:47:31] <Tom_itx> dry and debri catching a bearing
[18:47:38] <Wolf_Mill> no grease, looks like the balls flash rusted
[18:47:57] <Wolf_Mill> someone forgot a step :/
[18:48:10] <furrywolf> also, is that cage stamped tinfoil? it looks very thin.
[18:48:26] <Tom_itx> now you know what grease is for
[18:48:33] <Wolf_Mill> yeah its a 8mm center hole
[18:48:55] <Wolf_Mill> thinking print a new cage, just needs to keep them in place when its apart right
[18:49:09] <Tom_itx> abs?
[18:49:14] <Wolf_Mill> yeah
[18:49:20] <Tom_itx> what's the grease do to abs?
[18:49:21] <furrywolf> obviously more than that, or it wouldn't have ruined the METAL old one. :P
[18:49:25] <Tom_itx> what's temp do to abs?
[18:49:27] <Tom_itx> bad idea
[18:49:53] <Wolf_Mill> acetal?
[18:49:55] <furrywolf> abs tends to be resistant to water, water, and... umm... nothing with any petrochemicals. :P
[18:50:30] <furrywolf> metal.
[18:50:35] <Tom_itx> get a new bearing
[18:50:38] <furrywolf> just buy a new bearing
[18:50:53] <Wolf_Mill> that puts the machine down for almost a week
[18:51:05] <Tom_itx> lesson learned?
[18:52:08] <Wolf_Mill> oddly the mushed one runs pretty smooth lol
[18:52:26] <Tom_itx> the one my bud had to replace on his ballscrew was $1400
[18:52:37] <Tom_itx> he found one on ebay for $700
[18:52:51] <Wolf_Mill> grease it up and run it, order new/spare in teh meantime
[18:53:29] <Tom_itx> they sell balls locally
[18:53:57] <Tom_itx> i'd hammer out the cage and make it work for a week if it
[18:54:01] <Tom_itx> 's that critica
[18:54:05] <Tom_itx> l
[18:54:08] <Tom_itx> :)
[18:55:10] <Tom_itx> you will lose accuracy depending where it's at
[18:56:45] <Wolf_Mill> just the y axis lead screw
[18:59:32] <zeeshan> GUESS WHAT
[19:00:33] <Wolf_Mill> get a new lathe
[19:00:39] <zeeshan> chicken but
[19:00:42] <zeeshan> butt
[19:00:42] <zeeshan> :D
[19:00:52] <zeeshan> no new lathe yet
[19:01:04] <Tom_itx> what was the okuma you were looking at?
[19:01:26] <zeeshan> act 3
[19:02:15] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: how's your lumps?
[19:02:21] <zeeshan> working on them
[19:02:24] <zeeshan> they are machining fine
[19:02:30] <furrywolf> good!
[19:02:31] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/Hj8zV <- Tom_itx
[19:02:40] <zeeshan> furrywolf: im machining one only right now
[19:02:50] <zeeshan> because i dont wanna scrap a 200piece of wood
[19:02:52] <furrywolf> test run?
[19:02:53] <zeeshan> 5 times!
[19:02:56] <zeeshan> yes
[19:02:57] <furrywolf> lol
[19:03:22] <furrywolf> mount five pieces of cut up 2x4 and do a test run that way.
[19:03:29] <zeeshan> nah
[19:03:32] <zeeshan> not wasting cutter life
[19:03:33] <zeeshan> :P
[19:03:36] <zeeshan> just risk it on one
[19:03:54] <furrywolf> cutter life in wood is roughly forever. :P
[19:04:33] <Tom_itx> zeeshan when you gonna start making wood chips?
[19:04:47] <zeeshan> i knew you were gonna ask
[19:04:50] <zeeshan> to i prepared for the q
[19:05:00] <Tom_itx> i bet you did
[19:05:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/FR9apBa.jpg
[19:05:31] <Tom_itx> how'd it go?
[19:05:40] <zeeshan> will know later tonight
[19:05:44] <zeeshan> i machined one side only
[19:05:46] <zeeshan> it looks really sweet
[19:05:47] <Tom_itx> no chattering?
[19:05:51] <zeeshan> i had some
[19:05:59] <zeeshan> i needd to tighten the mandrel more
[19:06:01] <zeeshan> and it fixed
[19:06:06] <zeeshan> *needd
[19:06:08] <zeeshan> sdakljasdlia
[19:06:18] <Tom_itx> how are they holding?
[19:06:47] <zeeshan> seems okay for the one im doing right now
[19:07:01] <Tom_itx> is that a .250 ball?
[19:07:04] <furrywolf> you're going to need closer stepover, unless that's just a roughing pass.
[19:07:14] <Tom_itx> what stepover did you use?
[19:07:15] <zeeshan> in that pic os roughing pass
[19:07:18] <zeeshan> thats .1875 step over
[19:07:21] <Tom_itx> k
[19:07:35] <zeeshan> i have .035 step over set for finishing
[19:07:37] <zeeshan> and it comes out smooth
[19:07:39] <zeeshan> i cant even see the lines..
[19:07:40] <furrywolf> also, I'd highly suggest stuffing the hose to your shopvac up there somehow.
[19:07:48] <Tom_itx> that may give you a clue for the finish stepover
[19:07:53] <furrywolf> wood chips build up giant mounds quickly.
[19:08:02] <zeeshan> i think i can get away with .060 step over
[19:08:09] <Tom_itx> i figured .050 would be ok
[19:09:09] <Tom_itx> lots of knots
[19:09:16] <Tom_itx> nice for machining
[19:09:49] <Tom_itx> has he seen it?
[19:09:57] <zeeshan> no
[19:10:04] <zeeshan> knots are good for machining?
[19:10:05] <furrywolf> if I ever make any wooden toys, I'll need to sell them as "knotty pleasures" :P
[19:12:42] <Tom_itx> kidding...
[19:13:35] <zeeshan-mill> rofl @ the knotty toys
[19:13:38] <zeeshan-mill> why is knots good for machining
[19:13:59] <Tom_itx> i don't think they are are they?
[19:14:16] <Sync_> harder wood ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
[19:14:25] <Tom_itx> you're the knotty expert
[19:15:48] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: build a dust collector attachment for your mill
[19:15:49] <Tom_itx> gawd i need a new irc client
[19:16:17] <furrywolf> I need to patch bitchx to complete ambiguous nick completions to the most recent one of them to speak.
[19:16:55] <Tom_itx> doesn't support some fonts
[19:17:06] <Tom_itx> mirc
[19:17:20] <Tom_itx> i've got xchat installed, just don't use it on this one
[19:18:11] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, i'll be curious to see how all ops align
[19:20:33] <Sync_> turns out they don't because the plate if offset
[19:20:44] <furrywolf> his approach was to design the fixture perfectly and do math to know where it is 30 degrees later. my suggestion was to reference some feature carefully. :)
[19:21:15] <Tom_itx> it's not 30 deg though
[19:21:27] <furrywolf> one of the steps is 30 degrees. :P
[19:21:33] <furrywolf> the fixture is shaped like...
[19:21:34] <furrywolf> |
[19:21:36] <Tom_itx> no, it's 29 now
[19:21:41] <furrywolf> \__
[19:21:45] <Tom_itx> i saw it
[19:21:56] <Tom_itx> i suggested bolting it but he declined
[19:22:09] <Tom_itx> if it was off at least you could shim it then
[19:22:20] <Tom_itx> hard to shim a welded plate
[19:22:37] <Tom_itx> bolt and pin it
[19:22:59] <Sync_> just quickly deweld it
[19:23:28] <zeeshan-mill> i aint building a landing gear
[19:23:29] <Wolf_Mill> wny not angle mount the fixture at 30deg and face it with the mill
[19:23:31] <zeeshan-mill> its a e-cig case
[19:23:39] <zeeshan-mill> who cares if its out by a degree
[19:23:44] <zeeshan-mill> :D
[19:24:31] <furrywolf> since it's all cam generated toolpaths, it should be easy enough to cam for the measured angle and position of the fixtures. :P
[19:27:02] <zeeshan-mill> i like how i can hold these wood chips
[19:27:03] <zeeshan-mill> theyre warm
[19:27:07] <zeeshan-mill> try doing that with steel!
[19:28:32] <furrywolf> a lot of people like holding warm wood...
[19:29:55] <zeeshan-mill> rofl
[19:31:04] <zeeshan-mill> i definitely need to hook up my dust deputy or whatever its call
[19:31:08] <zeeshan-mill> i used it on my sand blaster
[19:31:13] <zeeshan-mill> the wood chips = fire hazard
[19:31:35] <furrywolf> I wonder if your plastiwood will make all the same fine dust that gets all over everything that normal wood makes...
[19:31:52] <zeeshan-mill> nah
[19:31:54] <zeeshan-mill> its mostly chips
[19:32:07] <furrywolf> it's especially a fire hazard if the resin isn't quite hard yet, and suddenly develops a whole bunch of surface area by being machined... :P
[19:32:13] <zeeshan-mill> the powder isnt large enough
[19:32:14] <zeeshan-mill> er
[19:32:22] <zeeshan-mill> light enough to float around if that gives you an idea
[19:34:34] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2015/sep/3/oily-rags-spontaneously-combust-set-fire-eureka-ga/ happened here last night, actually. lol
[19:34:54] <furrywolf> those wood resins, if given sufficient surface area, light themselves on fire.
[19:35:51] <zeeshan-mill> weird
[19:37:05] <furrywolf> the polymerization is an exothermic reaction... and proceeds faster at higher temperatures. if you give it lots of surface area, it polymerizes quickly, gets hot, polymerizes quicker, gets hotter, etc.
[19:37:58] <furrywolf> so if you find a block of your stabilized wood is still a little wet on the inside... stick the chips in a bucket of water. :)
[19:44:42] <Wolf_Mill> machine seems to be working again :)
[19:58:20] <renesis> wonder if anyone uses the doped wood for guitars
[19:58:48] <renesis> guessing it sounds way damped
[20:00:05] <Sync_> vacuuminfuse a guitar
[20:00:06] <renesis> i should sell the taig for a 2x4 router or something similar
[20:00:32] <renesis> thats pulling resin through wood?
[20:00:59] <renesis> meh thats a dumb idea, id have a router and be like, i should sell my 2x4 router for a taig
[20:01:24] <renesis> i def dont have space for both
[20:01:48] <Wolf_Mill> its a taig, how can you not have room for it? :P
[20:02:20] <renesis> its like 6ft from my kitchen, 2ft from my front door
[20:02:25] <PetefromTn_> rumor has it that they fit in your sock drawers
[20:02:43] <renesis> i made room for it but i dont have room for another machine
[20:03:45] <renesis> petefromtn_: i have mine bolted to a 4' folding table through some cork and rubber waffle damper mounts
[20:04:23] <PetefromTn_> you mean like those tables you eat at the couch with? ;)
[20:04:26] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/WFAo5Ye.jpg my taig lathe
[20:04:28] <renesis> loosen column bolt, lay down Z, fold up table legs, throw in volvo 740 trunk or scion tc hatchback
[20:04:38] <renesis> i dont have a couch
[20:04:44] <renesis> dont rub it in =\
[20:05:24] <Wolf_Mill> rub what in, thats my kitchen >.<
[20:05:33] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[20:05:39] <renesis> heh cool
[20:06:04] <Wolf_Mill> but the taig on the folding tool stand/sawhorse is why I posted that
[20:06:20] <renesis> but yeah, a router means speaker cabs and guitar bodies
[20:06:27] <renesis> and i can make money off that
[20:06:48] <PetefromTn_> Ooh and bigass plywood dinosaurs
[20:06:56] <Wolf_Mill> ^ +
[20:06:58] <renesis> oh man that sounds cool
[20:07:01] <furrywolf> I have the locking differentials for my truck sitting in my kitchen...
[20:07:03] <renesis> also a couch
[20:07:08] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[20:07:10] <renesis> i could route a couch
[20:07:31] <PetefromTn_> I saw on the news they made a couch out of pallets and pillows
[20:07:39] <furrywolf> I don't have a couch either.
[20:07:58] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE my bigass couch....I need it for my....nevermind
[20:07:58] <Wolf_Mill> but really, set up the router, store the taig under it, get a folding stand like I use or something when you want the taig out
[20:08:07] <renesis> http://i.imgur.com/xEFkufO.png
[20:08:21] <renesis> i think i should move the rear wall of the seat all the way back
[20:08:47] <PetefromTn_> watching Big Hero 6.... love that movie and so do my kids.
[20:09:13] <Wolf_Mill> thats a good movie
[20:09:34] <renesis> does it have dinosaurs or robots?
[20:09:43] <Wolf_Mill> robots
[20:09:54] <renesis> robots are neat
[20:10:26] <PetefromTn_> its a surprisingly cool movie
[20:11:04] <renesis> what has big casters i can steal
[20:11:09] <renesis> that isnt a trash dumpster
[20:11:41] <Wolf_Mill> home depot lumber cart?
[20:11:49] <renesis> this totally BOM fucks my couch, its like 35% of the cost =(
[20:11:55] <renesis> o
[20:12:01] <renesis> those are big ones too
[20:12:32] <renesis> non locking tho
[20:12:37] <Wolf_Mill> do you really need casters on a couch?
[20:13:01] <renesis> i have tile floor and plan on moving shit around
[20:13:25] <renesis> like, prob want to move the couch a bit to use the kitchen easier
[20:13:35] <Wolf_Mill> non marring plastic feet
[20:13:49] <Wolf_Mill> screw on type
[20:14:06] <renesis> http://i.imgur.com/l7zLHC9.png
[20:14:13] <renesis> original plan
[20:14:39] <renesis> yeah i think im going to move the seat back wall all the way back, and put vertical 4x4 in the corners
[20:15:03] <renesis> with some of those tack on plastic slider feet
[20:15:14] <renesis> saves $50 in wheels
[20:15:42] <renesis> i already have half the mem foam
[20:21:23] <Wolf_Mill> I would use some thing like http://amzn.com/B008LTY1W0 and metal wood screw-machine thread inserts for the feet
[20:22:01] <Wolf_Mill> more so if you plan to move it a lit
[20:22:02] <renesis> want something wider so easier to push over tile cracks
[20:22:04] <Wolf_Mill> lot*
[20:22:36] <Wolf_Mill> well, just linking those for the general idea
[20:23:20] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Slisptick-CB827-Furniture-Protector-Chocolate/dp/B002CGRVKC/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&qid=1441414766&sr=8-28&keywords=furniture+sliding+feet
[20:23:41] <renesis> unf, url... something like those
[20:24:11] <Wolf_Mill> that would work too
[20:25:15] <Wolf_Mill> I would search amazon for casters and sort by price just for kicks too
[20:25:35] <Wolf_Mill> sometimes you'll catch things that are slow movers for huge discounts
[20:26:38] <renesis> maybe, the bigger ones, 4-5" with brakes, are usually $8-15 each
[20:27:10] <renesis> which isnt a lot but its way more than everything else, the frame is like <$40
[20:27:34] <Wolf_Mill> http://amzn.com/B008LTY1W0 $6.60 each for the 2 they had in stock
[20:28:08] <renesis> hah, frequenctly bought with those t-nuts i fucking hate
[20:28:30] <renesis> those + china screw heads are great
[20:29:01] <renesis> you have to choose between leaning heavy into the screw head, popping the tnut out, or going light and stripping out the china steel screw head
[20:38:19] <renesis> http://www.mcmaster.com/#63965k66/=ysrdps i want that but for like $5
[20:53:54] <MattyMatt> $5 for a carriage bolt and a holesaw plug of tyre? robbery
[20:57:40] * ganzuul <3 cosmic ray spallation elements
[20:58:02] <MattyMatt> 2 plugs glued together to get the head inside, if RTV isn't tough enough
[21:01:14] <MattyMatt> dumpster dive >:) UNDER the dumpster. 4 nice castors there
[21:01:40] <jdh> $1.25 for hockey pucks
[21:01:42] <MattyMatt> "they were by the bins, officer"
[21:04:10] <MattyMatt> I've got a stack of those bakelite pucks that let tiny old castors slide over carpet
[21:04:59] <MattyMatt> too small for serious draggage tho
[21:06:55] <renesis> 00:47 < renesis> that isnt a trash dumpster
[21:08:48] <MattyMatt> shopping cart?
[21:09:41] <MattyMatt> how flat are these tiles? is hovercouch a possible?
[21:11:56] <MattyMatt> seriously tho folks, how about 2 plywood wheels at one end, and a handle at the other?
[21:13:58] <renesis> heh
[21:14:12] <renesis> big air filled tires
[21:15:19] <MattyMatt> for passenger comfort?
[21:16:21] <MattyMatt> transplant the brains of a roomba into it
[21:16:44] <MattyMatt> wake up to a new arrangement every day
[21:17:24] <SolarNRG> have any of you ever had any success with any of these freelance websites?
[21:18:22] <MattyMatt> if there's a website for it, you're not bleeding edge enough >:)
[21:20:24] <MattyMatt> all tech jobs are freelance I find. they are of limited duration even when they claim permanent, unless you chance by the one in 100 firms that will last
[21:20:31] <furrywolf> but when it comes to porn, there's a website for everything... I don't know if these two can be reconciled.
[21:21:14] <MattyMatt> nothing is illegal until it has happened often enough to offend :)
[21:22:16] <MattyMatt> that's not true. lawmakers often rely on their imaginations
[21:22:56] <MattyMatt> CGI means porn is no longer limited to the physically possible
[21:24:35] <SolarNRG> I've reached the point in my life where I feel like I'm retarded and I am of no usable value to anyone
[21:24:38] <MattyMatt> kickstarter is the best freelance site surely, if you want a challenge with a budget
[21:26:29] <furrywolf> I'm crippled and have a bad memory and am pretty useless too lately.
[21:26:36] <MattyMatt> what happened with your giant solar collector?
[21:27:06] <SolarNRG> got no money to complete any of my projects
[21:27:26] <furrywolf> me too!
[21:27:31] <MattyMatt> do you still have the house in turkey?
[21:27:33] * furrywolf joins SolarNRG's club
[21:27:52] <SolarNRG> greece please
[21:27:52] * MattyMatt got 6 sheets of plywood. me feeling wealthy
[21:28:16] <SolarNRG> don't know for how much longer tho, my wife's gonna be going into labor in the next week or so
[21:28:25] <SolarNRG> we haven't paid the internet, electric or water
[21:28:34] <SolarNRG> neither of us can find work
[21:30:08] <SolarNRG> so I'm looking at other ways to make money, like hiring out my services online, but I'm shit at basically everything and I feel like nobody would even pay me $10 to code a menu
[21:30:21] <furrywolf> I'll play loan shark if you have valuables and/or kneecaps. :P
[21:30:22] <SolarNRG> I feel like there are bangladeshi's who can do the work cheaper and better than me
[21:31:13] <MattyMatt> it's a state of mind, not a permamnet condition. I thought I was washed up at 20
[21:32:09] <MattyMatt> there's plenty of coding jobs, but probably not in greece
[21:32:28] <SolarNRG> yeah hence why I felt reaching out to the interwebs was a good ide
[21:32:50] <MattyMatt> I only know the big UK ones. jobsite.co.uk etc
[21:33:19] <SolarNRG> but I felt that things like google plus, adsense, these affiliate programs, fiver.com they are all somebody elses system that takes a huge cut out of your labor because they made that site it's their site
[21:34:28] * furrywolf has no idea what kind of work SolarNRG does
[21:34:48] <SolarNRG> i don't work, I'm a long term unemployed retard
[21:34:56] <MattyMatt> SELFemployed :)
[21:35:16] <MattyMatt> just do something useful to mankind, and it "doesn't matter" if you don't get paid
[21:35:31] * MattyMatt single
[21:35:51] <SolarNRG> it costs money just to go anywhere here
[21:35:52] * furrywolf is single too
[21:36:05] <furrywolf> I'll re-word that question...
[21:36:08] <MattyMatt> need new oars?
[21:36:11] * furrywolf has no idea what kind of skills SolarNRG has
[21:36:11] <SolarNRG> you wanna walk? you need water, you can't drink the water it's toxic, you have to BUY water, you wanna drive, you gotta pay fuel
[21:36:17] <SolarNRG> I have no skills whatsoever
[21:36:24] <SolarNRG> I failed all my exams
[21:36:35] <furrywolf> You have better English than the average american, that counts for a lot. :P
[21:36:54] <SolarNRG> yes but I don't have any qualifications
[21:37:04] <MattyMatt> I left school at 16
[21:37:10] <SolarNRG> I have no job references
[21:37:17] <SolarNRG> In fact I have NEVER had a job EVER
[21:37:35] <MattyMatt> so, you're a loyal selfemployee
[21:37:36] <SolarNRG> On the plus side, I've never paid income tax
[21:37:42] <SolarNRG> because I've never had any income
[21:37:47] <MattyMatt> been with the firm for years
[21:39:01] <MattyMatt> getting a job is surprisingly easy I found, when I finally got the courage, if they like the cut of your jib
[21:39:31] <MattyMatt> I wouldn't like to try it in greece right now tho, unless it's somewhere that needs good English
[21:39:34] <SolarNRG> you can get a job when you're young, you can't get a job when you're long term unemployed and old
[21:40:22] <SolarNRG> I already figured cvs, resumes, qualifications are not me
[21:40:30] <SolarNRG> job applications are out
[21:40:56] <MattyMatt> you can do a narrative CV. just list what you were developing
[21:41:42] <SolarNRG> but I figured that if I could somehow make a pretentious website that made clients feel like they are dealing with some big company when they are really only dealing with some crazy guy sat in in armchair on a dirty old computer
[21:42:02] <SolarNRG> but I have no payment system
[21:42:14] <MattyMatt> paypal is easy to set up
[21:42:22] <SolarNRG> what do I do with paypal?
[21:42:29] <MattyMatt> recieve payments
[21:42:35] <SolarNRG> how?
[21:42:43] <furrywolf> if kids in nigeria can get people to send them loads of money, you should have no problems with getting payments. :P
[21:43:05] <SolarNRG> furrywolf, you saying I should start doing the 419?
[21:43:22] <XXCoder> zeeshan-mill: nice!!
[21:43:31] <XXCoder> milling them wood thingies
[21:43:40] <SolarNRG> I'd rather be poor and free than be criminalized and a slave in a concentration camp forced to work for no money
[21:43:48] <furrywolf> I'm saying that receiving money is apparantly not difficult. :P
[21:44:15] <MattyMatt> all paypal needs is a verified email address and a debit card details. you only have to watch out you upgrade to a merchant account before they freeze your personal one
[21:44:23] <SolarNRG> i don't own a debit card
[21:44:49] <furrywolf> get one?
[21:44:53] <SolarNRG> and get this catch 22, I can't get one because I'm unemployed
[21:45:08] <SolarNRG> the bank has decided to make life difficult for me
[21:45:14] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: nice :) probably fine short term fix.
[21:45:17] <furrywolf> eh? around here you can get a hundred credit cards with no income whatsoever... :P
[21:45:37] <SolarNRG> where's here?
[21:46:17] <furrywolf> the US.
[21:47:03] <MattyMatt> credit is a human right there
[21:47:31] <furrywolf> it's the land of opportunities to completely fuck your credit report. :)
[21:47:34] <SolarNRG> people here in greece are struggling to even take their own money out of the bank, meanwhile in America they are still busy spending someone elses
[21:49:36] <MattyMatt> I tried mechanical turk when it started. I coulda made enough to live in bangladesh
[21:50:35] <MattyMatt> transcribing from audio
[21:50:59] <furrywolf> I poked at it when I was bored about a decade ago... 90% of it is scams, 9% of it is piss-poor pay.
[21:51:24] <furrywolf> and 1% might be worth doing, which you can compete with the other few million users for.
[21:51:24] <furrywolf> I stopped poking at it.
[21:51:45] <SolarNRG> so basically it's also impossible to make money off the internet too
[21:52:14] <MattyMatt> put rocks on ebay
[21:52:26] <MattyMatt> but you'll need paypal for that scheme
[21:52:30] <renesis> crack rocks?
[21:52:40] <MattyMatt> geology samples
[21:52:48] <MattyMatt> from greece, mofo
[21:53:13] <XXCoder> careful or greek will be a hole extendin all way down to core.
[21:53:19] <SolarNRG> well could I just post you some rock samples and you post me some cash back in a birthday card because I can't get a bank account right now
[21:53:20] <MattyMatt> genuine piece of the parthenon, guv
[21:53:30] <SolarNRG> hahahaha
[21:53:43] <SolarNRG> it's not even that well guarded
[21:54:58] <SolarNRG> so basically unless the bank lets you mess about with electronic money you are going to be poor, is that it?
[21:55:19] <MattyMatt> I tried to get a 3d file of the parthenon marbles, but all the good files are hoarded
[21:55:42] <furrywolf> you want fun, try getting the 3d scan of David.
[21:55:51] <MattyMatt> either inside academia or artist's premium assets
[21:55:54] <SolarNRG> post us a 3d scanner I'll do it for you
[21:56:07] <XXCoder> furrywolf: someone did
[21:56:11] <furrywolf> I tried a while ago, when they first did it. They actually check your supposed academic credentials and employment...
[21:56:12] <MattyMatt> but most of them are in london :)
[21:56:28] <XXCoder> oh personal scanning
[21:56:40] <MattyMatt> sneak in a kinect
[21:56:41] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: you can using xbox thingy
[21:56:45] <MattyMatt> :)
[21:56:46] <XXCoder> kinect
[21:56:53] <furrywolf> an organization scanned David in high resolution, but very, very tightly controls access to the data.
[21:57:11] <furrywolf> at least they did. this was about a decade ago.
[21:57:11] <furrywolf> I haven't checked if they still do. :P
[21:57:17] <MattyMatt> I wanted the whole thing, as new, before the explosion
[21:57:28] <SolarNRG> I don't own any consoles, only emulators for old consoles
[21:57:33] <MattyMatt> for reproduction in wood or hot plastic
[21:58:28] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: https://grabcad.com/library/parthenon
[21:58:52] <XXCoder> oh wrong kind
[21:58:55] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqGDikC62XA
[22:00:03] <MattyMatt> not bad for $295, I guess
[22:00:19] <MattyMatt> compared to the 6 weeks I could easily spend
[22:00:35] <XXCoder> depends on what you think your time is worth
[22:00:51] <MattyMatt> amortise that over $10 premium on 30 doghouses
[22:01:47] <XXCoder> ruins version http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/download.aspx?3dmodel=27814
[22:01:51] <MattyMatt> I'm not entirely cashflow constrained atm, so I can think in terms of economical expenses, within reason
[22:02:24] <XXCoder> http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/download.aspx?3dmodel=1396
[22:02:28] <XXCoder> not sure on accuracy
[22:03:06] <XXCoder> inside has statue and all
[22:03:19] <SolarNRG> you see I get totally bummed out thinking everything I can think of has already been done, anything I can make can be made cheaper in more abundance by someone in SE Asia, anything I can do someone else has a better track record than me for and I just feel like the world doesn't need me anymore
[22:04:49] * furrywolf thinks that way too, but it never seems to help
[22:05:05] <MattyMatt> trash talking yourself doesn't help
[22:05:09] <furrywolf> It's kinda like no matter how many times I keep cutting this piece of lumber, it never gets any longer...
[22:05:50] <Wolf_Mill> always a niche job/work that makes $$$
[22:06:14] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: sometimes volunteer work helps you find work
[22:06:21] <SolarNRG> maybe in america there is,
[22:06:28] <XXCoder> 80% of jobs is found via networking
[22:06:45] <XXCoder> jobs on websites is usually after attempts to find people via networking
[22:06:48] <MattyMatt> I've been wondering how to cut V feather joints to make these shrunken old floorboards an inch longer (and repair the ones the cowboys have hacked up with a circular saw)
[22:06:49] <SolarNRG> not here tho, and cyberspace is a hard place to find people who will pay you real money to do shit
[22:07:03] <SolarNRG> how do you network?
[22:07:11] <XXCoder> volunteer is one way
[22:07:13] <Wolf_Mill> talk to people
[22:07:17] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:07:27] <MattyMatt> ebay. trade stuff
[22:07:36] <XXCoder> job networking is full time job
[22:07:39] <XXCoder> unpaid
[22:07:48] <furrywolf> I've never heard of volunteering getting you a job. Where would you volunteer AT? doing what? lol
[22:07:59] <MattyMatt> conservative central office
[22:08:06] <XXCoder> furrywolf: plenty of times
[22:08:16] <MattyMatt> you get to be prime minister eventually
[22:08:22] <XXCoder> I had friends volunteer and later get job somewhat related to that
[22:08:23] <Wolf_Mill> furrywolf: more for meeting people vs the actual volunteering
[22:08:43] <XXCoder> like Wolf_Mill said, its more people you meet and know
[22:09:11] <SolarNRG> but everybody I've ever met in my entire life thinks I'm a complete and utter git
[22:09:20] <furrywolf> the only place you can volunteer is at a non-profit, and at least around here, nonprofits are either old boys clubs (kiwanis, etc), utterly useless hippie foundations (let
[22:09:20] <XXCoder> get new friends
[22:09:51] <LatheBuilder2> anyone else use a floating tap holder in their mill?
[22:10:04] <SolarNRG> how do you get new friends?
[22:10:10] <furrywolf> (let's all go buy flowers and plant them along the sidewalks!), or worse-than-useless helping of parasites so they can go tweek on a full stomach.
[22:10:19] <XXCoder> I'm wrong person to ask, I suck on friends stuff
[22:10:29] <MattyMatt> join things
[22:10:30] <furrywolf> SolarNRG: most people in here think I'm a total git too. :P
[22:10:58] <SolarNRG> actually xxcoder I think we're all the wrong people to ask, I think at this time now we are all so distrustful of one another right now is the hardest time for anybody to make new friends
[22:11:04] <MattyMatt> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=makerspace+greece
[22:11:54] <Wolf_Mill> ^ hobby groups are good networking sources
[22:12:00] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:12:10] <furrywolf> there's no makerspaces here. I've thought about starting one, but that requires an abundant surplus of time and money.
[22:12:22] <Wolf_Mill> I got a job offer when flying RC stuff one day
[22:12:39] <Wolf_Mill> while flying that is
[22:12:46] <SolarNRG> the problem I get is with the "submit us your cv" and then I don't bother
[22:12:56] <SolarNRG> because I have nothing worth putting on a cv
[22:13:03] <MattyMatt> makerspace is mostly the space, afaics. if you have an uncle with a farm you could set up a space dirt cheap
[22:13:13] <furrywolf> so... bother. :P
[22:13:42] <furrywolf> MattyMatt: property here is stupidly expensive, including rural property.
[22:14:02] <furrywolf> and thanks to the government you need to spend thousands of dollars a second (or so) on insurance and permits.
[22:14:05] <SolarNRG> name: sovereign citizen, date of birth: can't reveal that, that's fraud, qualifications: none, skills: none, previous jobs: none, references: none, hobbies: masturbation.
[22:14:15] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: its not easy to start from zero, but possible. in my case I went to DVR (dept of voc. rehab) and they got me into job training place
[22:14:26] <SolarNRG> see I don't bother submitting my cv because I already know what they are going to say after reading it
[22:14:29] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: then after somewhat close to year and internship on machinist
[22:14:48] <XXCoder> I got my perment job, its been 6 months now. I dont kn ow og greek has such thing ad DVR though
[22:14:59] <furrywolf> SolarNRG: your name has Solar on it. does this mean you know something about solar electricity or solar thermal installation?
[22:15:00] <SolarNRG> XXCoder, it's easy to start from zero when you're young when you're old and still got zero there's no hope for you
[22:15:12] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: you assume much on my age.
[22:15:30] <SolarNRG> i glued some mirrors on an old sky dish and burned some cardboard with it
[22:15:31] <MattyMatt> do the working class thing then. walk in the front door at the start of a shift wearing your shiny boots
[22:15:37] <Wolf_Mill> ... and here I am getting job offers at $75k starting when just fuckign off at the park...
[22:15:46] <furrywolf> That means you're a lot more useful than most people.
[22:16:20] <furrywolf> so your cv should say "Designed parabolic solar concentrators generating high target temperature rise under typical insolation".
[22:16:30] <MattyMatt> if you're there at the start of a shift, you're already looking better than the people who are late
[22:16:47] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: yeah be on time, everyday. no excuses
[22:16:49] <SolarNRG> actually I worked on a number of ceramics to improve the insulation including firebrick and calcium silicate promat
[22:17:08] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: I was late to work only twice, and it was NIGHTMARE traffic.
[22:17:19] <Wolf_Mill> but the guy who offered the job told me thats how he gets most of workers, hobby groups and networking
[22:17:35] <furrywolf> "Ran R&D program testing materials for radiation absorbtion in concentrating solar thermal installations"
[22:17:37] <XXCoder> say if drive average is 20 min, I leave 40 minutes before. that way I am nearly never late
[22:17:55] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: nice
[22:18:25] <MattyMatt> pedal average is more consistent, unless you have a puncture
[22:19:08] <furrywolf> Wolf_: 75k is about six times what I'm making.
[22:19:08] <furrywolf> SolarNRG: you don't seem like you're stupid, so feel free to pad your cv and RTFM if you get hired. :P
[22:19:13] <MattyMatt> even then you get there on the rims if needed
[22:19:17] <SolarNRG> furrywolf, I gotta copy paste that down
[22:20:13] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: thats twice what I make roughly
[22:20:26] <MattyMatt> CV spin. if an investor walks away, that's you promoted to finance director of your org
[22:20:27] <SolarNRG> furrywolf, no I have a donning kruger complex where I'm actually seriously incompetent and lack the ability to see the competency of others
[22:20:49] <SolarNRG> acceptance is the path to recovery
[22:21:57] <Wolf_Mill> sounded like a neat job, was doing RFid access control systems installs and repair
[22:22:06] <XXCoder> " The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that, because lemon juice is usable as invisible ink, it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras"
[22:22:26] <SolarNRG> lemon juice?
[22:22:33] <XXCoder> there is one other way, and only male people can make it :P
[22:22:47] <SolarNRG> good luck robbing the banks here, it'd be like dog day afternoon, there's no money in them haha
[22:23:09] <XXCoder> ww2 prisoners used it to write secret writings
[22:24:05] <SolarNRG> i got to post myself a letter in lemon juice to see if that would actually work
[22:24:28] <SolarNRG> i expect you need some sort of fountain pen to do that
[22:25:00] <MattyMatt> onion juice is another. more useful for the low countries
[22:25:14] <XXCoder> yeah good luck getting those in prison
[22:26:25] <SolarNRG> the criminal justice system seems to be slavery under a different name, criminalize everybody, everybody is a slave
[22:27:08] <MattyMatt> yeah but you have to whip yourself
[22:27:12] <MattyMatt> and buy the whip
[22:27:15] * furrywolf adds to own cv "Experience altering lexiographic descriptions of entrepreneurial endeavors to utilize low-frequency vibratory lexogram compliant synonyms to promote apparant academic contextualization".
[22:27:44] <furrywolf> hrmm, my internet connection is failing suddenly. it's been working well since they fixed the cable last night....
[22:28:03] <SolarNRG> furrywolf, I need about a week of reading just to understand what you just said there
[22:28:22] <SolarNRG> maybe even 2 because I'm such a retard
[22:28:51] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I thought you were on some wacky wireless
[22:28:56] <MattyMatt> it means "I jazzed up my own CV, for gain"
[22:29:05] <furrywolf> SolarNRG: bullshitting CVs to use buzzwords to sound educated. :P
[22:29:11] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: she has one of bad isps
[22:29:38] <XXCoder> Skilled in conceptizing data via optical input
[22:30:32] <SolarNRG> haha, I actually once thought about writing to a company "I'm not actually interested in doing any work for you whatsoever, I'm only actually interested in you giving me money so I can drink and smoke it away at my leisure"
[22:31:09] <MattyMatt> that's kickstarter
[22:31:17] <furrywolf> lol
[22:32:26] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: yes, I am. but yesterday the entire county had no internet. my connection has been working quite well since they fixed it... until now.
[22:32:38] <SolarNRG> don't you need money just to set up a kickstarter page?
[22:32:43] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:32:45] <MattyMatt> SolarNRG, you still have your workshop?
[22:33:00] <SolarNRG> yeah I got a metal table a drill and all that but no money to buy metal with
[22:33:04] <SolarNRG> no rods left
[22:33:06] <SolarNRG> got a welder
[22:33:13] <SolarNRG> got the grinder and the saw
[22:33:16] <SolarNRG> no clients
[22:33:18] <XXCoder> complexification of concept :P
[22:34:23] <SolarNRG> Ended up cutting up a lot of the metal I was gonna build a cnc with for other projects, ended up selling them and spending the money on baby clothes, food electric
[22:34:42] <SolarNRG> I really hate the fact that if you don't earn enough money regularly you end up on the street
[22:35:01] <XXCoder> no family no friends?
[22:35:14] <SolarNRG> I've never had a single friend in my life
[22:35:18] <SolarNRG> not one
[22:35:31] <SolarNRG> because basically I'm an asshole
[22:35:36] <furrywolf> yep, the david 3d scans are still tightly controlled... you must be "published researchers who are currently affiliated with a university, industrial research laboratory, or other major institution". even students at such institutions are prohibited from accessing the data.
[22:35:39] <MattyMatt> I bet your wife would love to hear that
[22:35:48] <zeeshan> son of a bitch.
[22:35:55] <zeeshan> the expanding mandrel is stuck inside the finish wood piece
[22:35:55] <zeeshan> lol
[22:36:00] <SolarNRG> oh she has a lot of very colourful names she likes to call me
[22:36:01] <zeeshan> might have to make a tool for it
[22:36:01] <Tom_itx> haha
[22:36:09] <zeeshan> rofl out of all the things
[22:36:12] <zeeshan> its actually stuck!!
[22:36:13] <Tom_itx> did it work too good?
[22:36:15] <zeeshan> its loose in there
[22:36:21] <zeeshan> but i cant get it out cause of the ribs
[22:36:33] <Tom_itx> don't use ribbed ones!
[22:36:40] <zeeshan> really needs to be ribbed :(
[22:36:44] <XXCoder> too much pleasure eh :P
[22:36:52] <XXCoder> seriously no way out?
[22:37:03] <zeeshan> i might have to make a very thin collet
[22:37:04] <Tom_itx> he never tried a smooth one
[22:37:05] <zeeshan> to grab onto it
[22:37:06] <zeeshan> rofl
[22:37:08] <zeeshan> i did tom
[22:37:10] <zeeshan> it doesnt work as good
[22:37:14] <zeeshan> its slidey
[22:37:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: is the bolt loose?
[22:37:21] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yes
[22:37:24] <zeeshan> the arbor is free
[22:37:33] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: in least you understand enough to be able to form relationship lol
[22:37:39] <zeeshan> and if i pull on the arbor i cant get it out!
[22:37:43] <zeeshan> cause thats what it's meant to do!!
[22:37:43] <zeeshan> lol
[22:37:46] <Tom_itx> zeeshan i've been wondering what the mandrel is gonna do to the tolerance of the hole it's in
[22:37:56] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: very loose tolerance
[22:38:13] <Tom_itx> but does it leave shitty marks inside?
[22:38:21] <SolarNRG> it's less of a relationship, more of a fact of life, we have a kid together and that kid is better off with two parents who live in the same house but do not sleep in the same bed anymore
[22:38:27] <zeeshan> yes its got rib marks in it
[22:38:45] <Wolf_Mill> 18650 battery wont care about the marks :D
[22:38:45] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: is the part completely finished? why are you removing the mandrel?
[22:38:52] <Tom_itx> maybe make em smaller then ream the hole
[22:38:54] <zeeshan> part is completely finished :P
[22:39:03] <Tom_itx> prove it
[22:39:04] <XXCoder> so how was it? accurate or?
[22:39:09] <zeeshan> the guy already took it
[22:39:12] <XXCoder> besides holder stuck in it
[22:39:23] <zeeshan> im going on vacation for a couple days
[22:39:24] <Tom_itx> i thought you said it was stuck
[22:39:25] <zeeshan> will make more when iget back
[22:39:32] <zeeshan> yea he took it with the stuck mandrel
[22:39:33] <zeeshan> lol
[22:39:42] <zeeshan> he wants to polish the thin
[22:39:44] <zeeshan> thing
[22:39:46] <Tom_itx> what's he gonna do with it?
[22:40:12] <Tom_itx> so he wanted the ribbed one so he could go polish it?
[22:40:15] <XXCoder> zeeshan: is hole accuracy important?
[22:40:18] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: lol
[22:40:20] <furrywolf> can't you push the mandrel out from the other end? isn't it in a through-hole in the part?
[22:40:26] <zeeshan> there is no thru hole
[22:40:38] <Tom_itx> this just keeps gettin better and better...
[22:40:43] <furrywolf> have a photo of it? :P
[22:40:59] <furrywolf> wrapping it in a rag and pulling harder might be the best option, then.... :P
[22:42:10] <furrywolf> for your next batch of mandrels, make the ribs an interrupted thread, so you can unscrew the mandrel if it gets stuck.
[22:42:21] <Tom_itx> the mandrel was bent when you tightened it
[22:42:39] <XXCoder> bent rod lol
[22:42:46] <Tom_itx> now it's got a high spot where the center expanded it
[22:43:07] <Tom_itx> trying to carefully choose my words here
[22:43:11] <just_pink> hi
[22:43:23] <XXCoder> hey just_pink! been a bit. hows things
[22:43:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/z3SItD8.jpg
[22:43:39] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: so it doesn't sound like you're making a slightly curved rod expand into a tight hole using a ribbed cover?
[22:43:55] <Tom_itx> something like that
[22:44:05] <Tom_itx> zeeshan that looks pretty good
[22:44:07] <XXCoder> zeeshan: what wood is it again? looks awesome.
[22:44:25] <zeeshan> not sure what wood
[22:44:25] <Wolf_Mill> nice
[22:44:27] <zeeshan> stablized wood
[22:44:33] <XXCoder> nice
[22:44:35] <Tom_itx> you sure?
[22:44:37] <furrywolf> you know, I still think that's one of the ugliest shapes ever made. lol
[22:44:44] <Tom_itx> does it shrink when it gets warm from the cutter?
[22:44:51] <zeeshan> honestly
[22:45:00] <zeeshan> no matter how quick i was cutting it
[22:45:03] <zeeshan> 30ipm-40ipm
[22:45:05] <Tom_itx> what is causing it to get stuck?
[22:45:07] <zeeshan> .1875" doc
[22:45:16] <zeeshan> you can touch the work piece
[22:45:17] <zeeshan> its not even warm
[22:45:18] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: ribs I think
[22:45:22] <zeeshan> the ribs yes
[22:45:26] <Tom_itx> the center expander?
[22:45:29] <zeeshan> no
[22:45:34] <furrywolf> so you used all three positions on the fixture and finished the part after taking that photo? or did he take a partially finished piece to test polishing on?
[22:45:35] <zeeshan> the ribs made grooves inside th e hole
[22:45:38] <XXCoder> zeeshan: as long as you dont try to touch while its running. bad idea.
[22:45:42] <Tom_itx> but it doesn't retract enough when you loosten it
[22:45:45] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i did all steps
[22:45:50] <zeeshan> but he was waiting around
[22:45:53] <zeeshan> so i couldnt snap a pic
[22:45:54] <zeeshan> :/
[22:45:57] <furrywolf> and they lined up correctly and everything?
[22:46:00] <zeeshan> yea
[22:46:13] <zeeshan> at least noticeable to my eyes :P
[22:46:16] <furrywolf> how long did it take?
[22:46:24] <zeeshan> thats not a fair q to ask right now
[22:46:30] <furrywolf> lol
[22:46:30] <zeeshan> i had to tweak the cam a lot
[22:46:37] <zeeshan> but i polly had 2 hours machining time
[22:46:55] <furrywolf> not too bad. better than the 10 hours or whatever you were saying. :P
[22:46:59] <zeeshan> haha
[22:47:07] <zeeshan> im using a scallop tool path
[22:47:08] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:47:15] <zeeshan> it really reduces machining time
[22:47:17] <Tom_itx> is that the expected machine time?
[22:47:20] <furrywolf> it'll go a lot faster when you're making five at once, too.
[22:47:23] <zeeshan> no that is actual time
[22:47:33] <Tom_itx> i mean what you expected
[22:47:37] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: without the fixture he was wasting a LOT of time with setup and clamping.
[22:47:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan: maybe change ribbed rod to screw so can screw out
[22:47:42] <zeeshan> no its less than what iexpected
[22:47:50] <just_pink> hi XXCoder I was busy a bit with some stuff. I've also took the machine apart and did lapping to the Z axis - now it can move 15000 mm/min 1000mm/s acceleration
[22:47:54] <zeeshan> furrywolf/xxcoder
[22:47:59] <zeeshan> that is an excellent suggestion
[22:48:04] <zeeshan> but im not going to go back and change it now
[22:48:05] <furrywolf> XXCoder: you mean like how I said a few lines above "<furrywolf> for your next batch of mandrels, make the ribs an interrupted thread, so you can unscrew the mandrel if it gets stuck."? :P
[22:48:06] <XXCoder> just_pink: much smoother eh
[22:48:07] <zeeshan> its already made =[
[22:48:28] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah forgot to add "like furrywolf said"
[22:48:29] <zeeshan> i need something like a piston expander
[22:48:42] <zeeshan> piston ring tool i mean
[22:48:56] <zeeshan> that you can clamp down and pull this thing out
[22:48:59] <furrywolf> well, I know you're making at least one more mandrel, since it's stuck in the part... :P
[22:49:06] <just_pink> zeeshan: it's look very nice!
[22:49:16] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, make a metal sleeve that fits the hole
[22:49:17] <zeeshan> haha furrywolf i want to say fuck you
[22:49:19] <zeeshan> but you're right
[22:49:19] <zeeshan> lol
[22:49:23] <Tom_itx> like a tube
[22:49:46] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: whats that going to do
[22:49:53] <zeeshan> just_pink: thank u!
[22:49:56] <furrywolf> if the ribs were a thread, you could unscrew the mandrel from the wood even if it's pretty tightly in it.
[22:50:04] <zeeshan> yea thats a good idea
[22:50:05] <Tom_itx> if you can slide it into the hole it may release the mandrel
[22:50:16] <XXCoder> furrywolf: how prevent it from unscrewing out while milling>
[22:50:22] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: hmm
[22:50:24] <XXCoder> just very tight or something?
[22:50:31] <Tom_itx> XXCoder, it's tightened by the inner part
[22:50:47] <zeeshan> XXCoder: http://imgur.com/dS6BjJh
[22:50:54] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, just for this one, i'd do the threaded mandrel for the rest
[22:50:54] <furrywolf> XXCoder: the plate he's on has a protrusion that fits into a second hole in the workpiece, so it can't rotate until after it's loosened from the plate.
[22:50:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/3Le1Zpb.jpg
[22:51:01] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: all the mandrels are made
[22:51:21] <just_pink> what lubricant I should use on the dovetail rails and the gib?
[22:51:24] <XXCoder> furrywolf: ahh ok
[22:51:32] <zeeshan> just_pink: vactra 2 way lube
[22:51:36] <Wolf_Mill> way oil
[22:51:52] <zeeshan> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/45212-100772-mobil-no-2-vactra-2-way-oil.html
[22:51:54] <furrywolf> the ribbed part is separate and not part of the plate, right? (that is, just the bolt holds it on, and you didn't machine it out of a huge chunk of aluminum billet)
[22:52:01] <XXCoder> zeeshan: so it was expanded by something but it now wont get loose?
[22:52:05] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, if you put a taper on the tube it may release the mandrel
[22:52:07] <zeeshan> furrywolf: exactly
[22:52:11] <furrywolf> I use Superlube synthetic grease on my sherline. it works well.
[22:52:12] <Tom_itx> it would still have to be pretty thin
[22:52:23] <zeeshan> its slightly expanded yes
[22:52:25] <zeeshan> but the problem is
[22:52:32] <zeeshan> i cant grib on those slitted tubes
[22:52:35] <zeeshan> *grip
[22:52:50] <Tom_itx> try the tube approach
[22:52:50] <just_pink> zeeshan: the clamping looks awesome.
[22:52:51] <zeeshan> i can only grip on the threaded arbor
[22:52:52] <zeeshan> with the ball thing
[22:52:53] <furrywolf> make the end a hex and the ribs a thread, and unscrew it. :)
[22:53:02] <XXCoder> can strnk enough by temperate changes zeeshan ?
[22:53:21] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[22:53:23] <XXCoder> wood dont strunk as much as metal does
[22:53:29] <XXCoder> but then enough?
[22:53:36] <just_pink> what about dry lubricant?
[22:53:50] <furrywolf> dry lubricant doesn't lubricate very well. that's why they sell KY.
[22:54:01] <XXCoder> ky lol
[22:54:10] <furrywolf> Sherline recommends Superlube, and that's what I use... it works quite well.
[22:54:27] <XXCoder> btw almost all alien drool or "slime" is ky lol furrywolf
[22:54:34] <XXCoder> in movies
[22:54:37] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, don't sell your lathe just yet
[22:54:40] <Tom_itx> you will need it
[22:54:41] <zeeshan> lol
[22:54:49] <Tom_itx> make a tube and test it
[22:54:49] <just_pink> http://www.grainger.com/product/SLIP-PLATE-Graphite-Dry-Film-Lubricant-1WVK7?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1WVK7_AS01?$smthumb$#
[22:54:55] <furrywolf> http://www.sherline.com/7550pg.htm I use the stuff in the tube on my sherline.
[22:55:00] <just_pink> what about that ^
[22:55:05] <Wolf_Mill> stop using grainger imo
[22:55:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, use it like they remove pins from a plug
[22:55:27] <XXCoder> furrywolf: they used barrel of it in Alien movie. lot of it. I wouldn't bet that they didn't use it for more... personal stuff too :P
[22:55:45] <SolarNRG> sigourney alien?
[22:55:48] <SolarNRG> 79?
[22:56:10] <just_pink> I have the slip plate here, and it's look like a paint..
[22:56:25] <furrywolf> make the fingers on the mandrel have an extension with a ball on the end, then the bolt part have a slotted inverted cone, such that when you push the bolt in it retracts the fingers. :P
[22:56:41] <just_pink> it's make a thin film of graphite.
[22:56:44] <XXCoder> SolarNRG: "Copious amounts of K-Y Jelly were used to simulate saliva and to give the Alien an overall slimy appearance."
[22:56:57] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, i'm thinking it bent the mandrel at the inner ball
[22:56:59] <SolarNRG> XXCoder, that is so wrong on so many levels
[22:57:09] <Wolf_Mill> on the ways dry lube will just get pushed off after a while
[22:57:33] <zeeshan> ill try when i get back on tuesday
[22:57:46] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: quite possible.
[22:57:48] <zeeshan> i was palnning to make a mandrel for it
[22:57:50] <zeeshan> to pull it out
[22:57:51] <zeeshan> lol
[22:57:53] <furrywolf> I still like my idea of making it a thread that unscrews. :P
[22:57:54] <zeeshan> mandrel for a mandrel.
[22:58:00] <XXCoder> work on my cnc router or go to big event HMM
[22:58:17] <XXCoder> furrywolf: whats least modifcation to make it work though
[22:58:22] <XXCoder> without using more material
[22:58:29] <just_pink> the problem that i have with oil it's get dust and chips and become like paste
[22:58:30] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, yeah but he doesn't wanna remake them all
[22:58:36] <Tom_itx> it would probably work fine
[22:58:46] <XXCoder> just_pink: need to protect ways from chips and such
[22:59:00] <SolarNRG> I'm sure a lot of eyebrows got raised at ridley scott during the shooting
[22:59:01] <zeeshan> i wonder of someone makes a .75 diameter .025 thou tube
[22:59:04] <zeeshan> wall
[22:59:19] <Tom_itx> probably in SS
[22:59:36] <Tom_itx> it would have to be something special
[22:59:38] <just_pink> Tom_itx: you mean th dry lube?
[23:00:08] <Tom_itx> wasn't addressing you about lube
[23:00:26] <zeeshan> is it a long weekend for you guys
[23:00:30] <Tom_itx> we're more concerned about ribs atm than lube
[23:00:36] <XXCoder> zeeshan: very long for me, 4 days off
[23:00:37] <zeeshan> lol
[23:01:10] <Tom_itx> it's stuck and he can't get it out
[23:01:49] <XXCoder> zeeshan: maybe just add lube and pull out lol
[23:02:03] <zeeshan> its wobbling around there
[23:02:04] <zeeshan> its free
[23:02:11] <XXCoder> like I said...
[23:02:13] <Tom_itx> the channel just wouldn't be the same without zeeshan and petefromtn
[23:02:21] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: why
[23:02:34] <zeeshan> you making fun of us
[23:02:37] <just_pink> my biggest problem is wood, carbon fiber, and fiber glass.
[23:02:41] <Tom_itx> who me??
[23:02:45] <zeeshan> =]
[23:03:07] <XXCoder> just_pink: figure how to cover ways without blocking machine motion over it
[23:03:21] <XXCoder> some machines use accordian type covers
[23:03:22] <furrywolf> if it's wobbling around, that supports tom's theory that it expanded unevenly, where the ball expanded it, bending the mandrel around it, and shaping a wider spot in the wood to match...
[23:03:29] <just_pink> XXCoder: I have covers, but it's not 10%
[23:03:54] <just_pink> 100%
[23:04:02] <Tom_itx> i suggested not using a ball but rather a taper
[23:04:07] <XXCoder> other way is add vacuum attachment
[23:04:14] <XXCoder> less dust
[23:04:22] <XXCoder> dont use it with metal though
[23:04:30] <zeeshan> honestly
[23:04:35] <zeeshan> this is exactly how it felt in the test piece
[23:04:53] <zeeshan> the only thing diff was the damn mandrel wasn't flush inside the test piece
[23:04:56] <zeeshan> in my actual piece it is
[23:04:59] <zeeshan> so i cant grab it
[23:05:04] <zeeshan> i need like really thin needle nose pliers
[23:05:09] <Wolf_Mill> why no vac with metal?
[23:05:10] <zeeshan> or i need to tap and drill the end of it
[23:05:13] <zeeshan> and use a puller
[23:05:14] <just_pink> i can work without lubrication?
[23:05:18] <zeeshan> slide hammer i mean
[23:05:23] <SolarNRG> carbon fiber pig pegged epoxy'd to sheet stainless is going to be a very tough material
[23:05:24] <Tom_itx> surgical clamps
[23:05:30] <XXCoder> just_pink: not recommanded
[23:05:37] <Tom_itx> i use those on lots of things
[23:06:00] <furrywolf> I like lube.
[23:06:24] <Wolf_Mill> XXCoder: why no vac on metal?
[23:06:34] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: damages vacuum I'd think
[23:06:42] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/xQFSvSU.jpg
[23:06:44] <XXCoder> shop machine vacuum maybe
[23:06:57] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: that bolts is way too tall
[23:07:05] <XXCoder> or screws or whatever
[23:07:07] <zeeshan> wow your step blocks have china embossed
[23:07:10] <zeeshan> never seen thas tb efore
[23:07:13] <zeeshan> that actually looks nice
[23:07:18] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, have a good weekend.
[23:07:19] <Tom_itx> i'm out.
[23:07:21] <zeeshan> gnite!
[23:07:30] <XXCoder> zeeshan: have fun
[23:07:37] <Wolf_Mill> my setup is dust seperator, then shop vac with bag + hepa filter
[23:07:50] <just_pink> someone know about good cmm software?
[23:07:52] <XXCoder> I need to get something for my cnc router lol
[23:08:14] <Tom_itx> just_pink, solidworks, mastercam, smartcam, catia,....
[23:08:17] <XXCoder> oh digitalizer stuff
[23:08:22] <Tom_itx> oh cmm
[23:08:27] <just_pink> yes..
[23:08:32] <Tom_itx> hmm our first one was a brown & sharp
[23:08:34] <Wolf_Mill> dust deputy bolted to a 30gal drum over liner
[23:08:40] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what the other one was
[23:08:41] <just_pink> I finished my digitizer.
[23:08:52] <just_pink> it's soo cute
[23:09:17] <just_pink> is't use 1/2" shank
[23:10:02] <Tom_itx> http://www.vinland.com/Touch-Probe.html
[23:10:11] <Wolf_Mill> and yeah, the hold down threads are a bit tall
[23:10:12] <Tom_itx> maybe links at the bottom.. i forget
[23:10:14] <furrywolf> I don't know if a touch probe is worthy of needing cmm software.
[23:10:22] <just_pink> I'm getting about 0.02 mm accuracy
[23:10:40] <Tom_itx> meshlab
[23:10:45] <furrywolf> accuracy or repeatability? :P
[23:11:00] <furrywolf> and is that long term or short term? :P
[23:11:17] <Wolf_Mill> oh shit, and one was way too close to the edge... head hit is and bent the allthread lol
[23:11:47] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: predicted that :P
[23:12:08] <XXCoder> <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: that bolts is way too tall
[23:12:43] <Wolf_Mill> I thought I had it over far enough, I was off by 0.25" lol
[23:12:57] <just_pink> furrywolf: +- 0.02 on the indicator
[23:13:07] <XXCoder> mm?
[23:13:12] <just_pink> yes
[23:13:23] <XXCoder> good because if inches thats not very accurate lol
[23:14:14] <just_pink> more than exelent for my needs and the way I make it.
[23:14:39] <furrywolf> precision is not accuracy!
[23:15:32] <just_pink> furrywolf: ????
[23:15:36] <XXCoder> furrywolf: how do you test repeatability anyway
[23:15:47] <furrywolf> dunno. I leave that to the calibration people. :P
[23:17:24] <XXCoder> lol ok
[23:17:59] <just_pink> it's spring loaded spider to ball bearings, so the digitizer itslef is very acurate.
[23:18:15] * furrywolf gives up
[23:18:38] <XXCoder> just_pink: http://cdn.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/precision_accuracy.png
[23:18:48] * renesis waits for pink nails pic
[23:19:02] <just_pink> but the shaft and the fact that i make it from acrylic and everithing is press fit make some runout - 0.02mm runout.
[23:20:22] <just_pink> renesis: they now light pink nails.. to change color?
[23:21:43] <furrywolf> I don't have pink nails, but I do have a pink dildo. should I start including it in pictures? :P
[23:22:31] <renesis> just_pink: blue green
[23:22:46] <just_pink> furrywolf: WTF O_O
[23:22:59] <renesis> furrywolf: for scale, yes
[23:23:06] <XXCoder> just_pink: meet furrywolf, our local channel lady pervert
[23:23:30] <renesis> dont call her a lady people trip out
[23:24:18] <furrywolf> renesis: I took http://fw.bushytails.net/sizecomp01.jpg a good number of years ago when someone asked how large my new welder was... a variety of common objects on it for reference.
[23:24:45] <just_pink> renesis: no way, I'm using green nails polish only in saint patrick day :)
[23:24:50] <renesis> its a rhino
[23:24:58] <XXCoder> lol
[23:25:09] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/aUYxqMcc1rE?list=PLx1XbvvfIlc4GBwY6dd2IJXagAhh-qyx3 this is cool
[23:25:12] <renesis> or maybe it is missing a horn and it is some sort of two horned thing
[23:25:18] <just_pink> lol
[23:25:54] <renesis> oh shit i want to take it apart
[23:26:04] <XXCoder> renesis: buy 3
[23:26:16] <XXCoder> one to pull apart and one to enjoy and one to collect dust lol
[23:26:39] <XXCoder> $150 ouch
[23:27:06] <renesis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtXdhUT3IM
[23:31:08] <furrywolf> my guess is it's just a little r/c wheeled vehicle inside the ball, with a nonfunctional head attached with magnets and rollers.
[23:31:35] <XXCoder> http://toyland.gizmodo.com/an-exhaustive-guide-to-building-your-own-rolling-star-w-1709299669
[23:33:12] <renesis> guys do you watch f1? i watch f1
[23:33:30] <humble_sea_bass> F1 more like worst one
[23:33:32] <furrywolf> why is that gizmondo page nothing but more fucking videos?
[23:33:34] <renesis> =(
[23:34:20] <Wolf_Mill> furrywolf: its a sphero
[23:34:28] <Wolf_Mill> I spelled that wrong
[23:34:39] <XXCoder> furrywolf: its video instructions on how to build one
[23:34:40] <furrywolf> yep. lol. the toy looks like it works exactly the way I would have built it.
[23:35:01] <furrywolf> I don't want video instructions. I want normal instructions.
[23:35:31] <furrywolf> but, now that the teardown video loaded, I see it works like I expected from the first video.
[23:36:07] <Wolf_Mill> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/Q690k8j.jpg better?
[23:36:19] <XXCoder> much. lol
[23:36:58] <Wolf_Mill> noticed that the head was going to hit it in a few more passes lol
[23:37:15] * furrywolf thinks the cost of the toy should be about $15, not $150.
[23:38:36] <XXCoder> renesis: watching linked videp now
[23:39:54] <XXCoder> interesting
[23:40:14] <XXCoder> guy can afford to just cut $150 toy
[23:41:54] <Wolf_Mill> this is why them clamps are on weird http://i.imgur.com/Y3HQkf1.jpg
[23:42:03] <renesis> shrug
[23:42:30] <zeeshan> that myfriend
[23:42:32] <zeeshan> is a huge plate on htere
[23:42:32] <zeeshan> haha
[23:42:41] <zeeshan> im suprised your mill hasnt tipped over
[23:42:45] * furrywolf would make some comment about the priorities of star wars fans, but is too tired to make it funny
[23:42:50] <Wolf_Mill> its a tray :P
[23:42:53] <zeeshan> oh
[23:43:08] <just_pink> Wolf_Mill: this is your mill?
[23:43:10] <Wolf_Mill> came out of a ambulance we scrapped
[23:43:15] <zeeshan> Wolf_Mill:
[23:43:17] <zeeshan> your steppers are huge
[23:43:18] <zeeshan> hehe
[23:43:18] <Wolf_Mill> yeah thats my mill
[23:43:22] <zeeshan> relative to the size of your mill
[23:43:31] <XXCoder> zeeshan: tons of troque I guess
[23:43:34] <zeeshan> what size?
[23:43:35] <Wolf_Mill> lol yeah, only nema 23
[23:43:41] <Wolf_Mill> 425oz
[23:43:47] <zeeshan> =D
[23:44:05] <Wolf_Mill> was the only set with good drivers
[23:44:11] <just_pink> what it the Z axis cable?
[23:44:28] <furrywolf> 425ozin is a pretty beefy nema23
[23:44:36] <furrywolf> I'm running nema34 at 900something ozin...
[23:44:39] <Wolf_Mill> DM542 drivers... Z axis counter balance
[23:44:49] <furrywolf> 8A/phase. :)
[23:45:13] <Wolf_Mill> there is 2 30lbs air springs in the hollow column
[23:45:19] <furrywolf> I got a new transformer so I can bump the drive voltage from 54V to 70V.
[23:45:34] <XXCoder> 3.5 N.cm lenme convert that
[23:46:07] <just_pink> I wnat to try harmonic drive for the Z axis.
[23:46:59] <XXCoder> oh my nema 34 motors is 496 approx cm/in
[23:47:12] <XXCoder> er 23
[23:47:13] <XXCoder> not 34
[23:47:25] <just_pink> the servo is very good for high speed but holding is place under load make it become hot.
[23:47:38] <just_pink> my is nema34 1025 oz/in
[23:48:04] <Wolf_Mill> just_pink: http://i.imgur.com/6NvwkBz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/CCqZw9Y.jpg inside my column with the cable running down from the top block and back up around the top pully
[23:48:38] <furrywolf> I went with steppers because of cost. much cheaper to find used on ebay.
[23:49:24] <just_pink> how i connevt the harmonic drive to the saft and the motor?
[23:50:34] <just_pink> connect
[23:51:43] <just_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Used-Good-HARMONIC-DRIVE-SYSTEMS-HD-FHG-14-50-1-50-CU8-/181749990077?hash=item2a5124c2bd
[23:52:44] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:56:24] <just_pink> there is other ways to make a zero backlash without harmonic drive?