#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-09-02

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[00:21:57] <zeeshan> man
[00:22:03] <zeeshan> am i glad to get this fixture done finally
[00:22:06] <zeeshan> took forever
[00:22:31] <furrywolf> I hate chevies. hate. hate.
[00:22:50] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/gHShOvF.jpg
[00:22:52] <furrywolf> how can you make something as simple as changing a fuel pump into a 3-hour project?
[00:23:01] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/dS6BjJh.jpg
[00:23:13] <zeeshan> lol furry
[00:23:16] <zeeshan> gotta drop the fuel tank?
[00:23:27] <furrywolf> it's on the side of the engine. it has two bolts. if it were a ford, or a jeep, or anything else under the sun, it takes 5 minutes. but on a chevy, noooooo....
[00:23:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/arXskqH.jpg
[00:23:58] <zeeshan> it works!
[00:24:24] <archivist> you dont want to change a spark plug in a Renault van
[00:25:26] <archivist> phail, you have to lift the fixture to get at the pulling bolt
[00:25:27] <furrywolf> archivist: chrysler/plymouth voyagers really suck... sideways V6 with three of the spark plugs mashed into the firewall.
[00:25:42] <zeeshan> archivist: phail at understanding the fixture
[00:25:43] <zeeshan> :-)
[00:25:43] <furrywolf> archivist: no, the bolt is on a plate that unbolts from the fixture.
[00:25:46] <zeeshan> look closely
[00:25:46] <zeeshan> :P
[00:26:10] <furrywolf> now you need to actually make lumps. :P
[00:26:25] <zeeshan> tomorrow
[00:26:29] <zeeshan> i already tried machining plywood
[00:26:33] <zeeshan> w/ the holder
[00:26:35] <zeeshan> it doesnt budge
[00:26:46] <furrywolf> good. :)
[00:26:53] <zeeshan> i also tried putting 200lb on trying to pull it out
[00:26:57] <zeeshan> i dont think its going anywhere
[00:27:04] <zeeshan> it definitely needed the locating feature
[00:27:14] <zeeshan> cause without it, the whole part would spin
[00:27:21] <zeeshan> (loosen up the nut)
[00:27:46] <furrywolf> yes.
[00:28:07] <furrywolf> note my initial post-it sketch had it. :)
[00:28:30] <zeeshan> you sketch had no expanding mandrel though
[00:28:30] <zeeshan> ;[
[00:28:51] * zeeshan act smart back
[00:29:36] <furrywolf> lol
[00:30:10] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:32:27] <zeeshan> gnite
[02:09:00] <Deejay> moin
[05:00:36] <XXCoder> heys
[05:04:11] <Jymmm> XXCoder: <--- Whore
[05:04:20] <XXCoder> ?
[05:04:34] * Jymmm rolls eyes...
[05:04:41] <Jymmm> Heys, Hoes, whores
[05:04:51] <XXCoder> ah
[05:04:58] <XXCoder> sorry feeling pretty ill
[05:05:13] <XXCoder> job was easy thankfully but rough day nevertheless
[05:05:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Ah, I was gonna say WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COOLANT ;)
[05:05:25] <XXCoder> lol
[05:06:06] <Jymmm> Yeah, I understand. That's when you just say fuck em if they can't take a joke
[05:07:37] <XXCoder> thankfully boss do allow people to use phnes or kindle ebook reader
[05:07:44] <XXCoder> otherwise it'd be even rougher
[05:07:48] <XXCoder> without distraction
[05:08:03] <Jymmm> Huh?
[05:08:20] <XXCoder> as long as machine or machines all busy and nothing else to do
[05:08:27] <Jymmm> ah, gotcha
[05:09:13] <Wolf_> this is when you know you’re at the edge of getting replaced by machines :P
[05:09:38] <XXCoder> Wolf_: there is robotics being invented that can learn how to use machines
[05:09:46] <XXCoder> one was learning how to use mill
[05:09:47] <XXCoder> so yeah
[05:10:33] <Jymmm> Is that the new polotically corect name ("robotics") for child slave labor now?
[05:10:57] <XXCoder> Jymmm: wanna know whats funny? robot is old word for 'forced labor'
[05:11:42] <Jymmm> XXCoder: lol, never heard that one
[05:12:02] <Wolf_> hmm, I wonder if i could convert my lathes dumb change gear system to belt drive...
[05:12:05] <XXCoder> and that is why robots will rise and enslave us
[05:12:31] <Jymmm> XXCoder: take the blue pill!!!!
[05:12:50] <XXCoder> what happens if I take both at once
[05:13:24] <Jymmm> you will forget that you've be enlightened
[05:13:35] <Jymmm> but only half of it
[05:13:58] <XXCoder> https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen-if-Neo-took-both-the-pills-in-The-Matrix-1999
[05:14:05] <XXCoder> bluescreen one is funny
[05:15:25] <XXCoder> next answer is probably most accurate
[05:20:51] <XXCoder> Jymmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYZsqaN7_8
[05:30:34] <Jymmm> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/pxGbq0I.jpg
[05:30:55] <XXCoder> crazy
[05:31:41] <XXCoder> unsafe as fuck too
[05:33:08] <Wolf_> makes me feel better about the mess on my workbench tho
[05:39:55] <XXCoder> wow
[05:40:02] <XXCoder> all pictures of matrix movie is so...
[05:40:04] <XXCoder> green
[05:40:43] <malcom2073> I enjoyed that movie
[05:41:09] <XXCoder> I love it too, even with utterly unexplained scene
[05:41:17] <XXCoder> one where neo uses his powers in real world
[05:41:31] <Jymmm> malcom2073: What makes you think it 1) WAS (as in past tense), and 2) A movie ???
[05:41:57] <malcom2073> Jymmm: 1: Because I'm not currently watching it, and 2: *twilight theme*
[05:42:25] <malcom2073> It's been about 6 months since I last saw it, I need to watch it again
[05:42:33] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Ha, your ass is is some pod and tubes sticking out of your body biotch!
[05:42:57] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Pot and kettle :P
[05:43:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073: ...and about to be flushed!
[05:43:13] <malcom2073> Difference between you and me? I make it look gooooood
[05:43:21] <XXCoder> http://www.moviemistakes.com/picture26303
[05:43:24] <XXCoder> so... green...
[05:44:07] <ikcalB> hey guys. has anyone encountered theses behaviors? (i cannot find open bug reports about those)
[05:44:18] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Not really, in the martix you might be hawt shit, but in reality.... You are one ugly sucker!!!
[05:44:39] <malcom2073> False, people look like they do IRL in the matrix, right down to their damn haircut, didn't ya know?
[05:44:56] <Jymmm> malcom2073: http://www.kizzx2.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/matrix-pod.jpg
[05:45:01] <ikcalB> 1. halshow does not parse hierarchy for Signal names. "Drive.A.PosSet" is going to be 'Signals --> Drive --> Drive.A.PosSet' instead of 'Signals --> Drive --> A --> PosSet' (what works perfectly for pins)
[05:45:21] <malcom2073> Like I said, 6 months
[05:45:22] <malcom2073> so sue me :P
[05:46:16] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Nah, just gonna send you here instead.. http://i.imgur.com/pxGbq0I.jpg
[05:46:41] <Jymmm> malcom2073: NO CARDBOARD FOR YOU!
[05:46:42] <malcom2073> So, so poverty yada yada etc... but seriously, get a damn broom or make one up out of something
[05:47:12] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Do you see ANYTHING that might make a broom?
[05:47:15] <XXCoder> use scrap rod to make broom hand;e
[05:47:23] <malcom2073> Cloth and metal sticks
[05:47:28] <XXCoder> and use lots thin scrap wires for brisle part
[05:47:46] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Doe you see Any?
[05:47:59] <XXCoder> honestly can easily make one
[05:51:21] <ikcalB> 2. when aliasing a pin, the original name is not displayed anymore - regardless of haltcl / halshow (though referring to the orig name still works)
[05:59:12] <Wolf_Mill> lol, brilliant, I think I can use my column as the prox sensor target for my Y axis lol
[06:04:26] <XXCoder> hey ikcalB dunno answer
[06:04:37] <XXCoder> maybe later more people will be in
[06:04:46] <XXCoder> roughly 6 hours later
[06:15:40] <Wolf_Mill> i'm not fully awake yet, let me make sure I'm thinking right, on the mill table if I regester a part of the back inside of a t-slot then mill the top outside corner, when I flip the bar over in to the t-slot the front face should be parallel to the spindle right
[06:15:53] <Wolf_Mill> if that mades any sense...
[06:29:52] <Wolf_Mill> no... that doesntwork... need coffee lol
[06:31:24] <ikcalB> XXCoder: tnx fer ur answer. will be on, and read the logs! have a nice day
[06:31:42] <XXCoder> night but yeah thanks ikcalB lol
[06:32:16] <ikcalB> XXCoder: its GMT+1 for me. ofc, also have a good night, Sir
[06:32:44] <XXCoder> :) have good day
[07:04:50] <Wolf_Mill> hmm, I think my ways are worn some on the x on this mill, holds around a 0.0005" swing going down the t-slot edge, then swings out 0.001 in one direction at the last 2"
[07:07:12] <jthornton> debian wheezy when you save something stupid recent files is a pia
[07:24:31] <Sync_> how are you measuring that Wolf_Mill?
[07:36:25] <fenn> wow i have been reading ancient scanned-in articles by "tubal cain" in model engineer, never imagined he would be alive and making youtube videos
[07:37:17] <Sync_> this is not the same person
[07:38:42] <lair82> PCW you around?
[07:41:08] <lair82> micges, you are using a 7i80 aren't you?
[08:16:40] <ganzuul> If steel keeps getting recycled, and elements intermingle, won't the properties of the steel you buy from foundries improve over time?
[08:17:40] <ganzuul> Or mild steel get harder...
[08:23:21] <Sync_> yes ganzuul
[08:23:38] <Sync_> it is also a problem with ultra high strength steels for cars
[08:23:50] <Sync_> as scrappers do not remove the copper from them
[08:23:56] <Sync_> and car scrap is used to cool the melt
[08:24:13] <Sync_> and copper will decrease performance of UHT steels
[08:28:03] <ganzuul> ooh
[08:33:51] <Wolf_Mill> woot, er32 setup will be here today
[08:34:10] <Wolf_Mill> too bad some dumbass forgot to order a chuck wrench
[08:39:47] <_methods> chuck wrench?
[08:40:41] <Wolf_Mill> collet nut wrench
[08:40:51] <_methods> ah er32 collet wrench
[08:41:26] <Sync_> just use a hook wrench
[08:42:05] <_methods> you might be able to rough it with a pipe wrench and a vise
[08:42:20] <_methods> put the collet in the vise and use pipe wrench on holder body
[08:42:39] <Wolf_Mill> its a lathe chuck plate
[08:42:44] <_methods> ahh
[08:42:49] <Wolf_Mill> type holder
[08:43:07] <Wolf_Mill> I wonder if its the same size as a castle nut on a ar-15
[08:44:02] <_methods> yeah in a pinch you might be able to find a spanner wrench at auto store that MIGHT fit
[08:44:25] <Sync_> I use a hook wrench exclusively for mine
[08:44:31] <Wolf_Mill> I know all the hook spanners I have here are way too big
[09:03:01] <JT-Shop> wow I rode the 2.5 mile short loop this morning the hard way and averaged 8.14 mph, I've never averaged over 6.x mph
[09:14:33] <Deejay> did you have the wind in your back? ;)
[09:26:19] <msantana> Hi folks. Does anyone know if there is a reason for linuxcnc is not officially maintained in Debian beyond the fact of the lack of someone interested about it?
[09:34:48] <JT-Shop> Deejay, I was in the woods so I had to make my own wind
[09:34:53] <Wolf_Mill> what? the live dist install I just did isnt maintained?
[09:35:23] <JT-Shop> what the 3 computers running LinuxCNC on debian is not maintained?
[09:36:17] <cradek> msantana: don't understand your question. can you say more?
[09:38:44] <msantana> cradek: I mean creating a package of linuxcnc and maintaining it in Debian distro
[09:39:27] <fenn> i think they mean you should just do `apt-get install linuxcnc` and everything works (or at least for linuxcnc-sim)
[09:39:28] <cradek> we certainly use debian-standard packages, but we host them ourselves
[09:39:47] <cradek> well it does, after you add the right source
[09:39:48] <msantana> yeah, I know
[09:40:11] <cradek> it would be awesome if someone would do the work of figuring out what would be needed to get in debian proper
[09:40:28] <cradek> the dependency on a special kernel probably makes that hard
[09:40:35] <msantana> I can try to do it
[09:41:25] <cradek> for linuxcnc-uspace it might be more easily possible if there is already a rt-preempt kernel in debian
[09:41:38] <msantana> cradek: yeah, AFAIK we just need a RT kernel right?
[09:43:42] <cradek> I can't answer in the affirmative any question containing "just" :-)
[09:44:41] <cradek> msantana: I think we don't have anyone who knows what's even involved in doing what you say
[09:45:13] <cradek> we have hosted our own debs for over a decade and I suppose we're quite used to it
[09:45:34] <Deejay> JT-Shop, so your training shows first results :)
[09:45:41] <msantana> I understand
[09:46:35] <cradek> if you can bring expertise, and teach us about it and why it's a good idea, please do, the devel mailing list is probably the best place.
[09:46:42] <cradek> I would very much welcome reading this
[09:47:20] <msantana> cradek: are you a devel too?
[09:47:23] <cradek> currently our release manager is seb_kuzminsky, but I and several others have done the job in the past
[09:47:32] <ikcalB> cradek: as the debs already exist (as well as a rt-preempt kernel - yet only for wheezy, i hope for jessy soon too) all thats left would be https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/new-maintainer.html AND fixing dependencies & maintaining the package
[09:47:43] <cradek> yes 10 years or so
[09:49:08] <cradek> msantana: are you a debian developer who could act as a sponsor?
[09:56:09] <ssi> morn
[09:59:52] <JT-Shop> Deejay, yes I'm seeing results now :)
[10:00:12] <Deejay> nice :)
[10:00:30] <Deejay> more motivation to go harder next time ;)
[10:00:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Man, that backwards tricycle of yours is awefully slow
[10:01:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ... I know you're in swamp land, but eeeesh
[10:12:05] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN5-vI4WoAAxHA9.jpg:large
[10:12:10] <ssi> got my spindle thread plug gage made
[10:12:13] <ssi> man that was a lot of work
[10:12:42] <Jymmm> Those are on ebay for $10 with free shipping btw
[10:13:20] <ssi> more like $50 :P
[10:14:05] <msantana> cradek: Sorry for not knowing any of you. I use linuxcnc in my work and I'm a long time contributor of Debian. So I thought I could help maintaining a package of linuxcnc directly in Debian.
[10:15:14] <cradek> msantana: no apology necessary. I welcome your help and hope to read more on the -devel list
[10:15:38] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN5_iEEW8AUNwZC.jpg:large
[10:15:46] <cradek> msantana: are there existing debian packages that depend on special kernels?
[10:16:32] <msantana> cradek: I'm no sure... let me see...
[10:16:32] <Jymmm> ssi: why the knerling? (sp)
[10:16:41] <ssi> something to hold onto when checking the fit
[10:16:48] <ssi> honestly I might oughta drill a hole for a hook spanner
[10:17:04] <ssi> those threads get pretty damn tight
[10:17:36] <msantana> s/no/not
[10:17:39] <Jymmm> ssi: Sure, but if you are chucking it up, I won't think somethinng else with be better
[10:17:54] <ssi> it's not for chucking
[10:17:55] <Jymmm> would*
[10:18:12] <Jymmm> ssi: pumpkin chunkin?
[10:18:13] <ssi> it's for checking the fit of an internal thread while cutting it
[10:18:24] <Jymmm> ssi: ah, gotcha
[10:18:30] <ssi> I need to thread the boring head to fit the lathe spindle, but I can't check the fit against the spindle while it's in the lathe being turned
[10:18:36] <ssi> so I made a gage that matches the spindle nose
[10:19:02] <Jymmm> cool
[10:23:00] <msantana> cradek: is the #linuxcnc-devel more appropriated for this subject?
[10:23:17] <cradek> yes probably
[10:23:37] <msantana> ok
[10:23:53] <cradek> or the devel mailing list for more precise/slow talk
[10:35:19] <Wolf_Mill> well, thats odd, why the heck is my y axis backwards
[10:35:31] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: get off the ceiling
[10:35:35] <archivist> because you did it wrong :)
[10:35:49] <Wolf_Mill> it was right before lol
[10:35:52] <archivist> invert, carry on
[10:36:01] <ssi> archivist: did you see the pics I posted 20 minutes ago?
[10:36:10] <archivist> nope
[10:36:23] <ssi> 10:48 < ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN5-vI4WoAAxHA9.jpg:large
[10:36:26] <ssi> 10:52 < ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN5_iEEW8AUNwZC.jpg:large
[10:37:32] <archivist> do it one more time then two chucks and a boring head in series :)
[10:37:37] <ssi> :D
[10:38:15] <ssi> I got an email back from Andy, he thinks there may not be enough meat in the castings to change from the 1 1/2-8 thread as drawn to a 2 1/8-8 thread to fit my lathe
[10:38:38] <ssi> I need to sit down and model the boring head in cad and see how it looks with those changes
[10:38:43] <ssi> what all needs to change and if there's enough metal to do it
[10:39:15] <archivist> or mount the head on a morse arbour
[10:39:34] <ssi> yeah if I can't make it fit my lathe spindle I'll thread it 1 1/2-8 as per plan and make arbors for it
[10:39:47] <ssi> the casting kit actually comes with an iron casting to make an arbor of your choice
[10:39:57] <ssi> but if at all possible I'd prefer to make it mount directly on the spindle nose
[10:40:17] <archivist> I was thinking dual purpose for the mill also
[10:40:26] <ssi> yeah that's the reason he supplies an arbor
[10:42:46] <archivist> I have one of the import boring heads, made an adapter so it fits the horizontal mill
[10:49:45] * Wolf_Mill is confused...
[10:50:20] <Wolf_Mill> mail truck just went by, looks like they only stuck a letter in the mailbox...
[10:50:31] <ssi> sounds pretty straightforward
[10:50:34] <ssi> no package for you
[10:50:50] <Wolf_Mill> I want my darn collet setup
[10:51:11] <anomynous> does someone know of a channel where to talk of fusion 360
[10:52:53] <Wolf_Mill> yay for lazy postal service, was in the mailbox :D they never scanned it delivered
[10:53:09] <ssi> you could have been putting things in collets last night
[10:53:11] <ssi> !!
[10:54:17] <archivist> why has the postman not delivered my Renishaw probe today
[10:54:31] <ssi> because he left it in Wolf_Mill's mailbox yesterday?
[10:54:51] <Wolf_Mill> box was smaller then I though, must have missed them shoving it in the box, plus my security cams are in pip on this monitor :D
[10:55:06] <archivist> ebay states....Estimated delivery Tue, 01 Sep
[10:55:20] <CaptHindsight> archivist: must be planetary alignment, I'm waiting 7 days for a 2 day delivery myself.
[10:56:14] <archivist> our post got privatised recently, useless and expensive now
[10:56:28] <anomynous> archivist tool probe or blank probe?
[10:56:45] <Wolf_Mill> 25 collets should cover most everything right :D
[10:56:48] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221854999870
[10:58:00] <anomynous> arr
[10:58:06] <CaptHindsight> archivist: how long has Royal Mail been private?
[10:58:16] <anomynous> did you know fusion 360 is free for home users?
[10:58:29] <CaptHindsight> and worth every penny
[10:58:32] <ssi> archivist: holy crap that's cheayp
[10:59:07] <archivist> seller described it incorrectly it is LT02
[10:59:45] <archivist> CaptHindsight, end of 2013
[11:00:32] <CaptHindsight> archivist: ok, that explains why they tend to lose everything in customs for 4 weeks now
[11:01:10] <archivist> the customs cuddle
[11:01:59] <archivist> shipping costs from USA is stopping me getting stuff
[11:02:25] <CaptHindsight> "customer not notified, VAT due, last location at local station but nowhere to be found"
[11:03:25] <archivist> might be found in 40 years
[11:03:47] <CaptHindsight> customers in London have to visit their local post office at least twice
[11:04:11] <CaptHindsight> they always manage to find any article that was insured
[11:04:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You in UK?
[11:04:44] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: no, I just ship there
[11:05:21] <Jymmm> Insured/registered mail is usually transported in locked cages, thus ability to locate, just slow(er) than hell.
[11:05:45] <archivist> stuff from china and hong kong make it here ok
[11:05:50] <CaptHindsight> could be worse, the post office in South Africa has been on strike for a month, no mail gets through there
[11:06:01] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Nice
[11:06:16] <Jymmm> archivist: Massive overload?
[11:06:39] <Jymmm> archivist: You still charged VAT on the HK/China stuff?
[11:06:57] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: they went private, what they were trying to do here
[11:07:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Oh gawd, Noooooooooooooooo!
[11:07:17] <CaptHindsight> USPS of FEDEX was the plan
[11:07:32] <Jymmm> Ew
[11:08:28] <CaptHindsight> have you tried the Fedex mail service on ebay yet? I forget the name, fast-ship or something similar
[11:08:55] <Jymmm> I still don't see why USPS doens't get into the eCash business. They already issue money orders, would be awesome to have a cash card from them as well.
[11:09:31] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It's a "last mile" thing. Primary transport via FedEx and the last mile via USPS
[11:09:57] <CaptHindsight> Fedex handles the mail except for the last drop into your box
[11:10:34] <Jymmm> The USPS could make a nice lil profit for eCash and cheaper than pp/apple/etc
[11:10:39] <CaptHindsight> yeah, has taken and extra day or two for me when used vs Priority or even 1st Class
[11:11:35] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I believe it's actually FedEx Ground, not FedEx Express.
[11:11:53] <CaptHindsight> welcome to USPS eCash, please enter you 57 digit ID number and password
[11:11:54] <Jymmm> which is/was DHL before FedEx bought them
[11:12:27] <CaptHindsight> ah thats why DHL went into the crapper
[11:13:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: alphanumeric, adn "same as cash", you lose it just like losing cash. They could make money just in ppl losing their cards.
[11:14:12] <CaptHindsight> i was just reading about how the states are trying to be able to claim funds on dormant pre-paid debit cards
[11:14:56] <Jymmm> Heh, leeches
[11:15:00] <CaptHindsight> big money in forgotten or lost eCash
[11:15:12] <zeeshan> ssi nice
[11:15:17] <zeeshan> 4 jaw in a 6 jaw!
[11:15:39] <ssi> 6 jaw in a 6 jaw!
[11:15:45] <zeeshan> oh
[11:15:46] <zeeshan> lol
[11:15:48] <zeeshan> send me one of those
[11:15:49] <Jymmm> oh yeah, That's why I think the USPS could pull a profit from it, and be a good service for it's customers too
[11:15:49] <zeeshan> :-)
[11:15:53] <ssi> lol noooope
[11:16:01] <zeeshan> plz?
[11:16:01] <zeeshan> ;[
[11:16:03] <ssi> the southbend came with TWO, count em TWO Buck set-tru 6 jaws
[11:16:08] <zeeshan> wow
[11:16:10] <ssi> with internal and external jawsets for both
[11:16:11] <zeeshan> those are a couple thousand each
[11:16:12] <zeeshan> new
[11:16:13] <ssi> and a 3jaw set for one
[11:16:16] <ssi> yeah like $1100
[11:16:23] <ssi> I paid 1850 for the lathe
[11:16:25] <ssi> WORTH IT
[11:16:28] <zeeshan> yes
[11:16:37] <Wolf_Mill> guess I need to make a collet rack now too
[11:16:47] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If USPS charged just 1% to the receiver of cash, they would pull in millions and MUCh cheaper than PP
[11:16:55] <zeeshan> Wolf_Mill: make me one too ?
[11:16:58] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: if properly managed, but have you seen the 72 different label and customs forms combinations when trying to ship international?
[11:17:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I've seen 2... CN22 and the long form (which you can fill out electronically now)
[11:17:59] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I like your dream, but I have problems with nearly every package I send
[11:18:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The ONLY international package I've ever had issues with was years ago and that it took 6 months to arrive, but it eventually did.
[11:18:55] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: what kind of collets did you get?
[11:19:07] <Jymmm> to australia (typical issues for them)
[11:19:10] <Wolf_Mill> er32
[11:19:13] <ssi> nice
[11:19:19] <ssi> zeeshan: did you end up ordering er32 collets?
[11:19:20] <Wolf_Mill> set of 25
[11:19:34] <CaptHindsight> system busy try again later, won't scan at drop-off, counter person not knowing how to scan and give me a receipt
[11:20:00] <CaptHindsight> buying stamps from the machine is nearly flawless
[11:20:09] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You don't do free package pickup?
[11:21:00] <zeeshan> ssi u mean 5c?
[11:21:09] <ssi> oh was it 5C?
[11:21:11] <zeeshan> last week man :P
[11:21:12] <ssi> did you get them?
[11:21:30] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: too inconvenient, and lots are last minute drop at post office 5 minutes away
[11:21:32] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/gHShOvF.jpg
[11:21:36] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/dS6BjJh.jpg
[11:21:44] <zeeshan> i unfortuanately didnt take any pics of the setup iused to cut those slits
[11:21:48] <zeeshan> but it involved the 5c collets
[11:21:59] <ssi> I see
[11:22:23] <zeeshan> they turned out sexy!!
[11:22:31] <zeeshan> lathe finally gave me a decent surface finish
[11:22:33] <zeeshan> by changing the insert
[11:22:42] <zeeshan> and increasing the feed
[11:22:45] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Fair enough, though I'm not sure what 12-24hr delay is gong to make that big a difference
[11:22:51] <ssi> did you get the pics I sent you last night?
[11:23:11] <zeeshan> no?!
[11:23:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what are you typically shipping "at the last minute dropoffs" ?
[11:23:20] <zeeshan> what pics!
[11:23:34] <ssi> I ground a 1/2" hss blank with about 15 degrees of SECA and 5 degrees back and side rake
[11:23:37] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: same day orders
[11:23:38] <ssi> on the new wheels I bought
[11:23:45] <ssi> and I was able to move some freakin metal
[11:23:53] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ah
[11:24:02] <zeeshan> damn
[11:24:02] <zeeshan> pics
[11:24:17] <ssi> .100" radial DOC (.200 diametrical), .0012" fpr, cutting 3" steel
[11:24:17] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: are they paying for next day delivery too?
[11:24:26] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: local post office closes here at 5:30
[11:24:35] <ssi> cut nicely on the fastest backgear speed, and with a little bogging on the slowest direct drive speed
[11:24:40] <ssi> dunno offhand what those speeds are
[11:25:06] <zeeshan> thats a pretty heavy cut
[11:25:09] <ssi> yusss
[11:25:43] <ssi> zeeshan: https://twitter.com/facetiousian top three pics
[11:25:46] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: USPS flat rate boxes tend to be the sweet spot
[11:26:06] <ssi> and even roughing like that it's leaving a pretty good finish
[11:26:14] <CaptHindsight> much lower than UPS or FEDEX
[11:26:23] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yeah, 75lbs worth =)
[11:26:25] <zeeshan> nice
[11:26:26] <ssi> CaptHindsight: and usps is inexplicably faster
[11:26:29] <zeeshan> you need a chip breaker in that thing
[11:26:30] <zeeshan> :P
[11:26:37] <ssi> yeah I dunno how to do that :)
[11:26:50] <zeeshan> just add a sharp line with an angle grinder
[11:26:53] <zeeshan> at the back rake face
[11:26:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: just the cost of boxes is a savings in itself
[11:27:00] <ssi> I just tuned the speeds and feeds until the chips were short and heavy
[11:27:05] <ssi> that pic's not a great example
[11:27:26] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: heh, thanks for reminding me to order more boxes
[11:27:34] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: =)
[11:27:41] <ssi> zeeshan: refresh, top pic
[11:27:45] <CaptHindsight> free delivery
[11:28:13] <zeeshan> there we go
[11:28:13] <zeeshan> :P
[11:28:23] <zeeshan> your southbend
[11:28:26] <zeeshan> is way better than my 12x36
[11:28:28] <ssi> need to feed fast enough that the chips can't string
[11:28:30] <zeeshan> ill tell you that much straight up
[11:28:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: 100 boxes was $68 from uline, shipping was $34, Yeah, no thanks
[11:28:33] <ssi> lol
[11:28:39] <ssi> I'm really impressed with the southbend
[11:28:40] <zeeshan> if i did that cut
[11:28:44] <ssi> I understand why everyone loves them so much
[11:28:48] <zeeshan> my carriage will break off
[11:28:52] <ssi> it's a nice rigid lathe for its size
[11:28:55] <zeeshan> yes
[11:28:57] <zeeshan> isn't it like 2000lb?
[11:29:00] <zeeshan> or 1500
[11:29:00] <ssi> it has all the features you'd want in a toolroom lathe
[11:29:04] <ssi> more like 1200-1500
[11:29:10] <zeeshan> okay that is still more than mine
[11:29:13] <ssi> all the controls are easy to run
[11:29:14] <Jymmm> ssi: ... and half the calories!
[11:29:27] <ssi> I really like the friction powerfeed
[11:29:34] <ssi> on my clausing all I had was halfnut powerfeed
[11:29:45] <ssi> the friction feed means you can crash it into a carriage stop and it'll slip
[11:29:49] <ssi> instead of trying to eat itself
[11:29:52] <archivist> I miss automatic feed knock off
[11:30:06] <ssi> archivist: yeah that would be nice for threading
[11:30:13] <ssi> cutting that damn 1 1/2-8 thread was a lot of work
[11:30:21] <ssi> even at the slowest speed that thread happens fast
[11:30:27] <archivist> I have it on the Schaublin lathe
[11:30:38] <jdh> what size southbend?
[11:30:42] <ssi> heavy 10
[11:31:03] <ssi> I want to get a sb 16 to complement it
[11:31:15] <ssi> 13's too close in size
[11:31:19] <malcom2073> You should get a sb9, baby brother!
[11:31:34] <ssi> if I got a 9 it would be for a restoration project
[11:31:41] <malcom2073> Mine's ripe for restoration! ;)
[11:31:44] <ssi> oh the other nice thing about the heavy 10 is the 1.4" spindle bore
[11:31:52] <ssi> it's hard to find lathes with bores that big
[11:32:07] <ssi> and that's big enough to put a rifle action through the headstock
[11:32:45] <archivist> what mine should look like if I restored it http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/south-bend-14-1-2-lathe-sale-219087/
[11:33:44] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-16-x60-Metal-Lathe-3-4-Jaw-Chucks-Steady-Rest-Gunsmith-/231666065249?hash=item35f05f9f61
[11:33:54] <ssi> single tumbler gearbox :/
[11:34:27] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-14-X-54-LATHE/221818717195?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33278%26meid%3D2eefc6b08fa64fcc875b121e4792cd7e%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D231666065249
[11:34:31] <ssi> oooo
[11:35:28] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monarch-Lathe-10EE-Inv-30676/291245123069?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33278%26meid%3D0de5774d21a64710ba5d5591f48bc08e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D261995995884
[11:35:33] <ssi> shit that's actually not a bad price
[11:35:53] <malcom2073> ssi: You want a 10EE? My dad is selling his
[11:36:04] <ssi> I'd love to have one
[11:36:43] <_methods> hell yeah
[11:37:24] <_methods> that's a real good price for that one
[11:38:26] <archivist> shed space fail
[11:38:50] <archivist> good job I cannot afford :)
[11:39:03] <_methods> http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tld/5156455058.html
[11:39:09] <_methods> fix'r upper
[11:40:53] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/city-of-toronto/okuma-howa-cnc-lathe/1087553698?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[11:40:57] <zeeshan> im thinking about picking up this lathe
[11:41:02] <zeeshan> any comments?
[11:41:07] <zeeshan> it has a 10 station turret..
[11:41:20] <zeeshan> hydraulic tail stock and chuck
[11:41:30] <malcom2073> zeeshan: No price
[11:41:32] <zeeshan> its twice as fast on the rpm as my lathe
[11:41:34] <archivist> sure will have to throw out that car to get the toys in
[11:41:41] <zeeshan> bigger spindle bore
[11:41:47] <zeeshan> smaller turning length (by a couple inches)
[11:41:52] <zeeshan> smaller turning diameter..
[11:42:01] <zeeshan> but i rarely ever machine anything bigger than 8" anyway..
[11:42:36] <zeeshan> swing is 18" so i can technically machine 18" wheels on it (the bores of them anyway)
[11:42:43] <zeeshan> malcom2073: price is 4000
[11:42:48] <zeeshan> but i still need to negotiate
[11:42:58] <zeeshan> its 8500lb
[11:43:04] <zeeshan> significantly mroe heavier than the pos i have
[11:43:07] <malcom2073> heh
[11:43:22] <zeeshan> also servo based, so 500 ipm rapid
[11:43:37] <zeeshan> it has no live sub spindle.. or live tooling though :(
[11:43:50] <zeeshan> which probably means it has no c axis.
[11:44:20] <archivist> yet
[11:45:40] <zeeshan> whats cool is
[11:45:46] <zeeshan> it'll fit in the current space of the lathe..
[11:45:49] <zeeshan> very compact
[11:46:26] <zeeshan> basically 9'L x 5.5'W x 6.5'H
[11:47:05] <zeeshan> i need to finish this job asap!!!
[11:47:15] <zeeshan> and do this swap before the winter
[11:49:15] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: be sure to use big enough wire :)
[11:51:43] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q&feature=share next project will be similar
[11:52:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you have enough power left in the garage?
[11:53:47] <CaptHindsight> how picky will it be to a phase converter?
[11:55:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/138067-okuma-amp-howa-act-3-a.html?howa_act-3=
[11:59:42] <CaptHindsight> I didn't find a manual for the ACT 3 after a quick search
[12:03:24] <Jymmm> Comments? http://codepad.org/HSKfUE5U
[12:13:00] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I'd pull 3 #10's
[12:13:10] <malcom2073> If you do multiple wires, you need multiple (smaller) breakers, so I'd avoid that
[12:13:21] <malcom2073> Yeah, #1 would be best
[12:13:38] <Topy44> another mechanical question... i am upgrading a 3d printer, among other things replacing the trapezoid lead screw for a ball screw
[12:13:52] <CaptHindsight> that 10/3 is not made for running in conduit
[12:14:26] <Jymmm> Is it "legal" to grab two 110V circuits from 220?
[12:14:57] <Topy44> it was a 8mm lead screw, i'l putting in a 12mm ball screw. this is for the Z axis. the 8mm lead screw was running in a 8mm brass bushing at the top end.
[12:14:58] <malcom2073> Probably not to code, to have two 110v outlets run by a single 220 cord
[12:15:00] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: according to the NEC you can not double up on conductors that small
[12:15:01] <Topy44> so not machined
[12:15:17] <malcom2073> Actually... I could be wrong
[12:15:30] <cpresser> Jymmm: i dont quite understand how you want to split the voltage? additional transformer?
[12:15:32] <malcom2073> It's code nowadays to have kitchen outlets each on their own circuit, a 220 wire would be the best way to do that
[12:15:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The 14ga you mean?
[12:15:44] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes
[12:15:55] <Topy44> i'd like to leave the bushing in. the question is if i can have a 12mm ball screw end machined to 8mm run in the brass bushing without the end of the bal screw thread eating into the bushing. there should not be any relevant force towards it.
[12:15:59] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Sounds liek a nightmare anyway.
[12:16:06] <CaptHindsight> I have to check but #6 might be smallest allowed
[12:16:37] <Jymmm> cpresser: each leg of 220 to gorund = 110V (no?)
[12:16:56] <Wolf_Mill> Topy44: why would you want to go through the troube of installing ball screws but still have the end in a bushing?
[12:17:00] <Jymmm> err, neutral.
[12:17:08] <malcom2073> Jymmm: Correct
[12:17:17] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you can have single pole 120V outlets on a 2 pole 220V breaker
[12:17:17] <Jymmm> malcom2073: K
[12:17:24] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: the upper end. the lower end is running in a angular contact bearing.
[12:17:49] * cpresser doesnt get how north american wiring is supposed to work
[12:17:57] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you could have 2 branch circuits on a 220V 2 pole breaker if you add a breaker for each branch
[12:18:04] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ok, I have no issue install a proper, two pole brekaer.
[12:18:12] <cpresser> is the 220V isolated from the 110V?
[12:18:19] <Topy44> cpresser: nobody does. seriously. we europeans look at the wikipedia page and go "wtf, how does this place have a working power grid?"
[12:18:23] <Wolf_Mill> ahh, ok, that makes sense then, shouldnt be a issue haveing a 6mm stub that end then
[12:18:24] <malcom2073> cpresser: 220 is made up of two 110 lines, 180 degrees out from each other
[12:18:41] <cpresser> malcom2073: ah, now that makes sense.
[12:19:26] <cpresser> but why would one want 180° phase angle? what about 3phase motors?
[12:19:34] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: well if you have a 2 pole breaker then you need to have 2 single pole breakers for each individual branch
[12:19:41] <malcom2073> People don't typically run 3 phase motors in their garages... cept us
[12:19:54] <malcom2073> Also, VFD :)
[12:20:05] <CaptHindsight> depends on Wye vs Delta
[12:20:11] <Topy44> hrm. now that i think of it... i guess it is kinda stupid to have the top run in a bushing - i was thinking its a good idea to have the upper end "loose" so that imperfections in the ball screw can't affect XY position
[12:20:13] <Wolf_Mill> for most home user need VFD or rotary phase converter
[12:20:39] <Wolf_Mill> I could be wrong tho
[12:20:39] <Topy44> the whole construction is a bit dodgy...
[12:21:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Unless I'm mistaken here, I was thinking those brekers that are "tied" togher with a lil rod so BOTH circuit pop at the same time.
[12:21:08] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: http://www.fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/US/ThreePhaseSchemes.jpg
[12:21:10] <lair82> pcw_home you around?
[12:21:11] <cpresser> Jymmm: just think of the total amps that might run through one wire at a time. and make sure the wire is strong enough to carry that current. then have cicuit breakers to protect that wiring accordingly
[12:21:48] * Loetmichel2 got the 230V PSU for the 100W led today... *shi** is that BRIGHT... the 26W flouroescent in the Desk lamp looks like a tea candle by comparsion... tomorrow i will mount the fan on the heatsink and mount that set into the desk lamp... for the "fine" work. ;)
[12:21:49] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: those are for 2 pole 220V circuits only, not for two 110V branches
[12:22:19] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: There's a difference?
[12:22:49] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: the delta is how older US is wired
[12:22:54] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes
[12:23:11] <Topy44> thing is: i can't really increase the size of the hole in the top plate, so... i'd have to use a _tiny_ bearing
[12:23:15] <Topy44> its a 16mm hole
[12:23:17] <ssi> Jymmm: think about what happens if you try to draw max rated current through both branch circuits
[12:23:24] <ssi> said current has to return through the neutral
[12:23:32] <ssi> but in 10/3 or whatever the neutral is the size of the hots
[12:23:35] <Wolf_Mill> Topy44: needle bearing
[12:23:37] <ssi> so you have 2x the current in the neutral
[12:23:48] <Jymmm> ssi: Ah, ok. I get it now.
[12:23:49] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: http://www.achrnews.com/ext/resources/NEWS/2003/22/Files/Images/83833.gif is how the newer stuff is wired
[12:23:54] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: good point. need to find a way to fix it in the 4mm aluminium plate though.
[12:24:31] <Wolf_Mill> its just to keep the rod from whipping, shouldnt need to go nuts on teh mounting
[12:24:37] <Topy44> yeah
[12:24:48] <Jymmm> ssi: 220@40A == 110@20A (since there is a "shared" neutral, per se)
[12:24:51] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: that looks quite reasonable.
[12:24:55] <CaptHindsight> ssi: if his 2 110V branches are properly balanced then there the only load on the neutral is the imbalance
[12:25:23] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yeah I guess you're right since they're necessarily out of phase
[12:25:31] <Topy44> hm, i could repurpose one of those cheap shaft mounts
[12:25:32] <ssi> although they're not 180 out of phase
[12:25:34] <ssi> they're 120
[12:26:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: By balance, you mena the whole service load (HVAC, oven, etc)?
[12:26:22] <pcw_home> lair82: yeah
[12:26:22] <CaptHindsight> I used to have to know this stuff
[12:26:30] <ssi> but additional funkiness can happen with reactive loads like motors
[12:26:32] <ssi> phase shifts
[12:26:39] <ssi> I dunno, it gets complicated
[12:26:44] <ssi> and it's probably not significant enough to worry about
[12:26:51] <ssi> for Jymmm's purposes anyway
[12:27:04] <Wolf_Mill> I need to bother to do that some day, my panel is all out of wack I bet
[12:27:07] <malcom2073> ssi: If they were 120 out of phase, wouldn't it be 208 votls not 240?
[12:27:11] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you want to run the 2 110V branches from 2 different poles vs the same pole
[12:27:35] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: if they are from different poles then the neutral only carries the imbalance
[12:27:35] <ssi> malcom2073: dangit don't go mucking up my theory
[12:27:59] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: if they are from the same pole the neutral carries 2x the load current
[12:28:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: By "pole" you mena from each half othe 220V service?
[12:28:43] <malcom2073> ssi: I thought they did something like run a 3phase to 2phase transformer for the last stepdown?
[12:29:46] <ssi> malcom2073: maybe so
[12:29:48] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: http://www.achrnews.com/ext/resources/NEWS/2003/22/Files/Images/83833.gif A, B and C are POLES
[12:29:57] <ssi> my understanding of power distribution is still fuzzier than I'd like :D
[12:30:05] <malcom2073> Heh
[12:30:07] <malcom2073> black magic
[12:30:08] <malcom2073> that's how
[12:30:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.belden.com/blog/datacenters/3-Phase-Power-Wye-It-Matters.cfm
[12:31:11] <CaptHindsight> http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/threeph.htm
[12:31:49] <CaptHindsight> the poles are 120 degrees from each other
[12:32:32] <CaptHindsight> you might assume 180 degrees since most homes only get 2 poles and a neutral
[12:32:55] <malcom2073> No, I assume 180 degrees because line -> neutral -> line is greater than line->line
[12:33:03] <malcom2073> erm, equal rather
[12:33:13] <ssi> yeah but that's where I'm confused now... because I always thought you got 2 poles of the 3ph service
[12:33:27] <ssi> but malcom2073 is right, if that were the case you would have 208V across them
[12:33:34] <ssi> and I'm pretty sure they don't drop a neutral from the service
[12:33:37] <CaptHindsight> I was only assuming why you were assuming that :)
[12:33:45] <Wolf_Mill> this should work better I think http://i.imgur.com/8TEjtQb.jpg , also liking my new task light http://i.imgur.com/wAxD21E.jpg
[12:33:45] <ssi> I'm pretty sure the neutral is created at the panel
[12:34:09] <CaptHindsight> nope, 3 wires from the transformer at the power pole
[12:34:09] <malcom2073> I know neutral is tied into ground at the panel, but iirc it still comes from the pole doesn't it?
[12:34:20] <CaptHindsight> you better hope so
[12:34:28] <ssi> well it's a ground, I don't think it's an actual neutral
[12:34:35] <ssi> it's certainly not as big a conductor
[12:34:48] <Jymmm> but tied to nutral I thought
[12:34:53] <renesis> pretty sure neutral and earth are tied at the panel at the ground spike
[12:35:05] <ssi> renesis: they are
[12:35:07] <malcom2073> Someone with a scope, go hook up to your breaker box and report back! :P
[12:35:19] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[12:35:22] <ssi> point being the neutral is just a floating reference between the poles, that references the pole voltages to ground
[12:35:25] <ssi> or something
[12:35:30] <ssi> like I said, power distribution is fuzzy :)
[12:35:40] <renesis> well, yeah but its not floating because tied to ground
[12:35:48] <Jymmm> ssi: and tingly in some cases too =)
[12:35:53] <CaptHindsight> renesis: they should be bonded at the main panel where the power enters the building
[12:35:53] <Wolf_Mill> hope someone with a scope knows to use isolated inputs
[12:35:57] <renesis> earth and neutral are the same, earth is redundant and not supposed to carry current
[12:36:07] <malcom2073> ahhh that's what it is
[12:36:14] <malcom2073> your house is powered by a SINGLE pole of the three phase, with a center tap
[12:36:18] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_Mill: ah shoot, and I was waiting for the fireworks :)
[12:36:23] <ssi> malcom2073: AH
[12:36:23] <renesis> yeah
[12:36:31] <CaptHindsight> you never forget that lesson :)
[12:36:32] <ssi> single pole of 400V 3ph?
[12:36:33] <renesis> home power is 120+120 center tapped
[12:36:45] <Jymmm> malcom2073: lighting rod power distribution, only ONE conductor needed
[12:36:49] <malcom2073> ssi: Run through a transformer to bring it down to 240V, and center tapped
[12:36:54] <CaptHindsight> renesis: depends on delta or if wye
[12:37:01] <ssi> yeah that makes sense
[12:37:16] <malcom2073> Yeah, I knew that, had totally forgotten
[12:38:03] <Jymmm> Dumb question.... does a 220V light bulb, powered from the two legs of 220 (no ground nor nutral) ?
[12:38:23] <CaptHindsight> http://cdn.gregsmithequipment.com/images/specialty_lifts/images/power_req_img.jpg
[12:38:24] <malcom2073> Jymmm: It can be, yes
[12:38:31] <ssi> Jymmm: is there a verb in there?
[12:38:37] <ssi> Jymmm accidentally the whole question
[12:38:38] <malcom2073> I switched does/can :P
[12:38:39] <Jymmm> ssi: ?
[12:38:42] <renesis> 240 is 120 hot + 120 hot + earth ground
[12:38:55] <malcom2073> renesis: Correct
[12:39:06] <renesis> this is in the US, its diff everywhere else i dont know how
[12:39:16] <malcom2073> Yep, the two 120's are 180 degrees out of phase with each other
[12:39:21] <ssi> renesis: yeah we already learned that in finland they have 3 phase ovens
[12:39:26] <renesis> the idea that euro houses are running center tapped 450V+ is kinda nuts
[12:39:42] <malcom2073> Does euro use center tap?
[12:39:50] <CaptHindsight> how and where the neutral and earth ground get bonded varies by the electrical code
[12:39:58] <renesis> i dont think its all the same
[12:40:12] <Topy44> we have 3-phase ovens and water heaters here too
[12:40:12] <CaptHindsight> Chicago and NYC require a ground rod at the meter
[12:40:16] <Topy44> (germany)
[12:41:08] <CaptHindsight> the NEC requires a water pipe inside the building or ground rod
[12:41:15] <cpresser> that is the most common european wiring: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:TN-C-S-earthing_de.svg
[12:41:29] <cpresser> due to regulations virtually everybody uses that
[12:41:43] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Heh, Have you seen the metal water pipe that is connected to PVC underground yet =)
[12:41:44] <ssi> cpresser: 3phase to the home?
[12:41:49] <cpresser> ssi: sure
[12:41:57] <ssi> it's not common here sadly
[12:41:58] <ssi> I wish it were
[12:42:13] <cpresser> i have a 32-Amp 3phase behind my monitore where i am sitting right now.
[12:42:19] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah, bad inspector
[12:42:28] <Jymmm> cpresser: lick it
[12:42:54] <CaptHindsight> we used to have to show the route all the way to the water meter and also have a jumper across the meter in case the water gets disconnected
[12:43:03] <cpresser> Jymmm: can do, the connector is designed in a way that makes sure my tounge cant touch a phase
[12:43:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Old circuits we found floating when installing a new antenna systems
[12:43:32] <cpresser> https://images.static-thomann.de/pics/prod/125030.jpg
[12:43:54] <renesis> cool
[12:44:04] <renesis> those are twist lock?
[12:44:07] <Topy44> nope
[12:44:10] <ssi> looks expensive
[12:44:20] <cpresser> ~5€ per piece.
[12:44:21] <Topy44> they are locked by a spring loaded cover
[12:44:26] <Topy44> on the socket
[12:44:38] <cpresser> IP44 by design
[12:44:45] <renesis> cooool
[12:45:04] <Topy44> these are not common in private homes though, stuff like ovens and water heaters are hardwired to the 3-phase
[12:45:39] <Topy44> (which is really fun because of course most people think "ah, can't be too hard" and hook it up themselves.)
[12:45:46] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Nice big chunks of copper ground https://stationproject.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/ground-block-5.jpg
[12:45:55] <cpresser> where lot of people have those CEE-Plugs in their garage at home
[12:46:19] <cpresser> or in the basement
[12:46:23] <Topy44> cpresser: yeah, people that have a garage workshop or something
[12:46:26] <Topy44> they install them
[12:46:33] <Topy44> but its not standard by any means
[12:46:58] <Topy44> however in businesses, anything from restaurants to factories, those are omnipresent, in 16A, 32A and 63A variants
[12:47:00] <cpresser> Topy44: i live on the countyside, here virtually everybody has them in the garage. for large saws
[12:47:08] <Topy44> cpresser: yeah makes sense
[12:47:14] <ssi> that's an odd progression
[12:47:23] <ssi> 16, 32... 63?
[12:47:30] <Topy44> yeah, never quite understood that either :)
[12:47:34] <ssi> :D
[12:48:18] <CaptHindsight> new installs http://d2pbmlo3fglvvr.cloudfront.net/product/full/Z1_-Lyfo5oy.JPG , old install http://livingoutfitters.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/o/p/optq851_large_/Electrical-Outlet-Outdoor-Kitchen-Accessories-OPTQ851-Discontinued-30.jpg
[12:48:19] <renesis> i think becayse 25% more than 50V
[12:48:23] <Topy44> especially as its commonly split down into 1x 3-phase 32a, 1x 3-phase 16a and 3x 1-phase 16a
[12:48:33] <renesis> thats why i always assumed 6.3V and 63V caps happened
[12:48:35] <Topy44> which is quite obviously not 63 :)
[12:48:47] <ssi> Topy44: someone somewhere is almost but not quite good at math :D
[12:49:28] <Topy44> i am originally swiss, where we have our own custom plug standard (well, used to, its all CEE now too)
[12:49:58] <Topy44> https://pics.ricardostatic.ch/ImgUsers/2/7/756/75635/7563574/756357408_2_Big.jpg
[12:50:04] <ssi> there's probably some regulation somewhere that limits current to <64 amps
[12:50:12] <ssi> or enforces some tougher standard starting at 64
[12:50:14] <ssi> I dunno
[12:50:15] <Topy44> those are for private homes, for stuff like 3-phase washing machines and such
[12:50:35] <renesis> ssi: 50A systems with 25% headroom
[12:50:39] <cpresser> ssi: there are 128Amp plugs
[12:50:44] <CaptHindsight> 64A at what voltage?
[12:51:00] <CaptHindsight> 230VAC?
[12:51:00] <cpresser> they are commonly used in larger installations.
[12:51:09] <ssi> 16,32,63,128
[12:51:11] <Topy44> the interesting thing about the swiss plug is that you can plug a regular 1-phase device into them, they are downwards-compatible
[12:51:11] <ssi> the plot thickens
[12:51:16] <Topy44> just with 2 extra pins
[12:51:32] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: yes, or 480V from phase to phase. 230v is phase to neutral
[12:51:48] <renesis> ssi: my guess is the 63A standard existed before whatever standard youre talking about
[12:53:57] <CaptHindsight> hmm 64 = 8^2, I bet it has religious significance :)
[12:54:39] <Topy44> hm, some theory on the web says: its due to there being 63A fuses available before the CEE standard
[12:54:50] <ssi> ah
[12:56:18] <Topy44> well, whatever. back to deciding how i want my ballscrew machined.
[12:56:49] <Topy44> (heh. ballscrew. i like that word. ok, i'll be mature again now.)
[12:57:05] <ssi> don't forget the ballnut to go with it!
[12:57:09] <Topy44> of course
[12:57:13] <ssi> it's full of balls.
[12:57:19] <Topy44> and nuts and screwing
[12:57:25] <Topy44> brilliant
[12:58:26] <Topy44> right. found a 8x16x4mm ball bearing. i could have that at the top.
[12:59:01] <cpresser> Topy44: make sure to select the correct bearing for axial and/or radial load
[12:59:17] * Jymmm will take off the panel cover and take photos; we have this HVAC w/ heat pump and I'm not sure how/if they balanced out the load but from the plate on the HVAC unit, it's a power whore =)
[12:59:24] <Topy44> so top machined to 8mm, bottom machined to 10mm, going through a collar, sitting on an angular contact bearing, then an m10 thread, then the belt pulley
[13:00:10] <Topy44> cpresser: yeah sure, thats one of the things i'm changing - the original design used regular ball bearings for heavy axial loads, no wonder it didn't last long
[13:00:53] <Topy44> hm, the belt pulley has a 10mm bore... so i can't have an m10 thread above it...
[13:02:00] <Topy44> the pulley is available with a 6mm bore, but thats getting a bit thin maybe
[13:02:46] <Wolf_Mill> I've seen worse.... http://i.imgur.com/NdXBYOT.jpg
[13:03:04] <Topy44> huh..what am i looking at?
[13:03:18] <Wolf_Mill> lead screw blocks
[13:03:21] <Topy44> i see a needle bearing and a thrust bearing
[13:03:30] <Topy44> and something broken
[13:03:44] <Wolf_Mill> stock was just a block of cast iron with a hole in it
[13:04:28] <Jymmm> When/why would you run pvc vs metal conduit?
[13:04:52] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: fair enough, where's the issue?
[13:04:55] <Topy44> sorry i'm not getting it
[13:05:00] <ssi> cast iron actually makes a pretty ok bearing with some oil in it
[13:05:04] <Topy44> oh.
[13:05:08] <Topy44> so..no bearing in it..?
[13:05:18] <Topy44> just cast iron "bushing"? :)
[13:05:27] <Wolf_Mill> nope, no bushing, bearing, washer, nadda
[13:05:28] <ssi> nah lots of lathes have the far end of the leadscrew running in a cast iron bearing
[13:05:37] <Topy44> heh
[13:05:51] <Wolf_Mill> handle bushing right to the face of the cast block
[13:05:57] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: thats kinda a cool photo
[13:07:19] <Wolf_Mill> before http://i.imgur.com/kEDpfS8.jpg , add cad http://i.imgur.com/SUkjjeu.png?1 done http://i.imgur.com/tf2f7lU.jpg
[13:07:22] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: HAd it been on distressed wood instead of butchblock, would have added to it from an artistic standpoint.
[13:19:43] <Wolf_Mill> artistic things were pretty far from my mind when I pulled that thing apart lol
[13:20:51] <lair82> pcw_home, I am not at the machine I have been working on, but I loaded that firmware, and verified it, all successfully, and for some reason I cannot see any of the sserial cards. It also told me that there weren't any pwmgen's loaded. Of which I have all of them called out in my INI file? Any thoughts?
[13:22:48] <andypugh> archivist: Do you by any chance have a 1/4” CP hob?
[13:23:53] <andypugh> Anyone: If a lathe was made with a 26mm leadscrew, what size of ballscrew would be best? Bigger or slightly smaller?
[13:26:20] <PCW> lair82 did you do a reload or power cycle the 7I80?
[13:26:22] <PCW> mesaflash --device 7i80 --addr 10.10.10.10 --reload
[13:29:42] <lair82> Yep, I did a power cycle, it told me that the firmware needed to be at least v14 to perform the reload command. Then I did the mesaflash --device 7i80 --addr 10.10.10.10 --verify 7i80hd_16_,,,,, command, and it said it was re-configured succesfully
[13:30:48] <Topy44> http://dump.t44.org/2015-09-02_20-07-03.png
[13:30:52] <PCW> well mesaflash --device 7i80 --addr 10.10.10.10 --readhmid
[13:30:53] <PCW> should give you the pinout
[13:31:01] <Topy44> hrm... i wonder if that will give the suspiciously cheap chinese factory enough to work with
[13:31:24] <Topy44> should probably make it clear that thats an m10 thread
[13:32:53] <Topy44> the thrust-bearing side has a ring/collar thing, followed by an AC bearing, followed by a flat m10 nut, followed by the driving belt pulley, does that sound like a reasonable setup? i have never designed anything like this..
[13:33:14] <Topy44> oh, heh
[13:33:25] <Topy44> it says r12 where of course it should be r6...
[13:33:28] <lair82> I did that, and I wish I would have made a copy and brought it with me, and I saw the resolver pins on P1. and a few sserial pins on P3, so I cut all the pin associated stuff out of my hal file, got my config to start, and in a serperate terminal ran halcm show all, and I don't see anything about the sserial cards, or pwmgens
[13:34:10] <Wolf_Mill> only one ac bearing?
[13:34:18] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: yeah, why..?
[13:34:21] <Topy44> http://dump.t44.org/2015-09-02_20-11-02.png
[13:34:22] <Topy44> more like it
[13:35:00] <Topy44> this is the z-axis of a 3d printer, so its a vertical setup - the screw "stands" on the ac bearing
[13:35:04] <Wolf_Mill> z axis w/ no counter weight/spring?
[13:35:13] <Wolf_Mill> oh ok
[13:35:22] <Topy44> counterweight? spring?
[13:35:32] <Topy44> please explain, as mentioned, i have never designed such a system
[13:35:45] <Topy44> if i am missing something i'd like to know
[13:36:24] <lair82> PCW, do I need to update the firmware?
[13:36:50] <andypugh> Topy44: On the first version I was about to say that the reduction in diameter was excessive
[13:36:59] <Wolf_Mill> use to working on things with more weight, http://i.imgur.com/1hUDmu6.jpg
[13:37:08] <Topy44> andypugh: yeah i thought that looked weird... :)
[13:37:22] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: ah, right
[13:37:42] <andypugh> It does more than look wierd, you had thrown away about 90% of the torsional strength
[13:37:47] <Topy44> yeah we're talking maybe 1,5kg max load at the very worst here :)
[13:37:51] <PCW> what was the exact firmware complaint
[13:37:57] <PCW> ?
[13:38:09] <Topy44> andypugh: well, i confused radius and diameter when entering parameters, so.. :)
[13:38:38] <lair82> It just said that I could not perform the reload command due the firmware not being at least V14.
[13:38:41] <andypugh> Yes, I don’t know why the drawing is all in radiuses, that is very unconventional
[13:39:03] <Topy44> andypugh: because thats the way i entered it, i drew a sketch and swept it
[13:39:11] <PCW> hmm thats prety old
[13:39:20] <Topy44> i can put in diameters for the factory
[13:39:25] <Topy44> if you think thats less confusing
[13:39:46] <andypugh> Topy44: What software? Inventor works in diameter if you make the axis line a centreline. But I can tell that isn’t Inventor
[13:39:47] <Topy44> this is some random chinese company that sells ball screws, and custom machines the ends
[13:39:56] <Topy44> andypugh: solidworks
[13:40:06] <andypugh> I custom-machine my own ends
[13:40:09] <Topy44> i could try that, but probably its going to scream at me that the sketch is open :)
[13:40:20] <Topy44> i don't have a suitable lathe, besides, the machining is included in the price
[13:40:24] <andypugh> (And today i am trying to decide between 25mm and 32mm for my lathe conversion)
[13:40:35] <lair82> I won't be back on that machine until tomorrow morning either, it's at another shop about 7 miles down the road that is a good friend of ours that I am putting Linuxcnc on as well, I am at my shop now
[13:40:51] <lair82> I bought those cards almost a year ago.
[13:41:19] <andypugh> Machining ballscrews is fun :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPP4r3H2VO8
[13:41:32] <Topy44> heh yeah, as expected, if i convert the axis to a centerline it throws a gazillion errors because the sketch is now open :)
[13:41:53] <Topy44> i'm sure there is a proper way to do this, but...i'm not an expert on this
[13:41:58] <andypugh> That’s a surprising feature
[13:42:22] <Topy44> hahaha, you are machining your cutting steel instead? :)
[13:42:27] <Wolf_Mill> strange drawing
[13:42:58] <andypugh> Topy44: It was a Cubic Boron Nitride insert, but it chipped and that was the end of it.
[13:43:23] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/BgfqPsX.png?1 is what mine look like
[13:43:51] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: well, this is a screenshot from solidworks, ofc i'll make a proper drawing from it before sending it off
[13:44:13] <Topy44> but thanks for the reference - i don't know what they'd expect such a drawing to look like :)
[13:44:43] <Wolf_Mill> lol, you know SW better then I do, I have no idea how to make threads and whatnot
[13:45:25] <Tom_itx> andypugh, i don't see why 25mm wouldn't be fine
[13:45:25] <andypugh> Wolf_Mill: You have dimensioned to hidden geometry. That’s a No-No :-)
[13:45:39] <Tom_itx> if the current one is 26mm
[13:45:59] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: easiest way: draw one sketch for the thread profile, create another sketch with a copy of the outer diameter of your cylinder, insert helix/spiral, enter pitch and length, then sweep-cut the first sketch along the helix you just created
[13:46:08] <andypugh> Tom_itx: It is a very sturdy little lathe. Somehow a bigger rather than smaller screw seems sensible.
[13:46:14] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, andypugh I know the print is all sorts of not right, just tossed it together to use as a ref at the mill
[13:46:32] <Tom_itx> as long as you have room to mount it
[13:46:39] <andypugh> Wolf_Mill: Ah, yes, when I do that my drawings are awful :-)
[13:46:40] <Tom_itx> go big then
[13:47:04] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: seeing as you are doing the same thing i'm doing right now... how long do you make that M8 thread?
[13:47:11] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Partly I am thinking that the original leadscrew was only for threading, but the ballscrew is for cutting and drilling too.
[13:47:19] <Tom_itx> andypugh what does your company use for cad ?
[13:47:20] <Topy44> i mean, you make it a little longer so you can clamp against the bearing, right?
[13:47:37] <Wolf_Mill> andypugh: lol, yeah, I also did it tht way to save printer paper and page space
[13:47:43] <Topy44> and do you screw directly against the bearing or do you put some sort of spacer in between?
[13:47:58] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I think they use NX. But they seem to use Inventor for factory layouts, which is how I get a free license :-)
[13:48:13] <Tom_itx> don't know NX
[13:48:53] <Tom_itx> CATIA is big here, just trying to get a feel for what big companies use
[13:49:03] <Tom_itx> i think GM uses it as well
[13:49:06] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_NX
[13:50:22] <Tom_itx> CATIA and Solidworks are similar but catia seems more 'complete'
[13:51:05] <andypugh> Tom_itx: http://www.cadalyst.com/manufacturing/ford-switches-software-gears-10920
[13:51:27] <andypugh> (Quite an old article, but suggests CATIA and an in-house package)
[13:51:30] <Sync_> catia crashes more often
[13:51:37] <andypugh> I don’t work in the mechanical design area
[13:51:51] <Tom_itx> yeah i knew that but figured you may know
[13:56:02] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: so..?
[13:57:39] <Wolf_Mill> oh, yeah, for AC usually a spacer so the load is just on the center part
[13:57:54] <Topy44> what do you use for that?
[13:58:02] <Topy44> just a metal ring?
[13:58:56] <Wolf_Mill> yeah pretty much, I just sorta go off how thk does theirs
[13:59:18] <andypugh> Topy44: This catalogue has a section on end support design. http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/productattachments/index/download?id=8
[13:59:25] <LatheBuilderShop> 7i77 encoder inputs are high impedance, right?
[13:59:47] <lair82> PCW, could that firmware be the problem, or no? After I get the communications going with the 7i80, it should be pretty much home free from there, after the .bit file is loaded.
[14:00:04] <Topy44> andypugh: thats what i have been looking for... couldn't really find much
[14:00:09] <Topy44> checking it out now, thx
[14:00:59] <PCW> LatheBuilderShop: about 2K single ended but 120 Ohm differential
[14:01:38] <PCW> lair82: the firmware should be fine if it works on the other machine
[14:02:56] <PCW> does
[14:02:58] <PCW> mesaflash --device 7i80 --addr 10.10.10.10 --readhmid
[14:02:59] <PCW> make sense for your daughtercards and how you have them wired to the 7I80?
[14:03:08] <Topy44> hm, right... they always use 2 (or more) AC bearings stacked in opposite directions...
[14:03:21] <LatheBuilderShop> thank you
[14:04:25] <andypugh> Topy44: Yes, or 3.11 shows deep-groove radial bearings in conjunction with thrust bearings
[14:04:29] <lair82> PCW, yes it does, I have the 7i49 connected to P1, and the 7I44 connected to P3, just as it said when running the readhmid command
[14:04:39] <Topy44> well, i cannot have more than one bearing
[14:04:45] <Topy44> no room
[14:04:50] <andypugh> Oh
[14:04:56] <Topy44> per side that is
[14:05:13] <andypugh> Hmm
[14:05:18] <Topy44> then again the load is very small. maybe 1kg worst case.
[14:07:36] <Topy44> as said, my entire plan for the load bearing (or "fixed" as they call it in that pdf) side is: 10mm ID collar, 10mm ID AC bearing, flat M10 nut, and then belt pulley with 6mm bore
[14:08:27] <andypugh> http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=%09+3800B2RSRTVH
[14:08:41] <Topy44> the nut screwing the ac bearing against the collar
[14:09:10] <lair82> PCW, but when I start linuxcnc, and run halcmd show all from another terminal, it shows none of the pins relating to any of the sserial cards, and this is what I have in my INI, [HOSTMOT2] DRIVER=hm2_eth board_ip="10.10.10.10" BOARD=7i80 CONFIG = "sserial_port_0=000xxxxx num_resolvers=6 num_pwmgens=6 num_encoders=1"
[14:09:51] <lair82> Actually it is "sserial_port_0=0000xxxx"
[14:09:52] <PCW> 5V power to 7I44?
[14:10:02] <Topy44> whatever i use needs to have the same dimensions as a 6000z bearing
[14:10:11] <lair82> Yep checked that before I left there earlier.
[14:10:14] <Topy44> so 10x26x8mm
[14:11:16] <PCW> sserial cards on ports 0,1,2,3?
[14:11:34] <lair82> Unless something happened to the 7i44 when they were putting it on the control board.
[14:11:48] <andypugh> What takes the thrust force?
[14:12:04] <Topy44> what do you mean?
[14:12:07] <ssi> andypugh: holy ballscrew chatter!
[14:12:35] <lair82> Yep I double checked that this morning first, they did have the wrong devices on the wrong ports, so I moved them to correlate with my hal file.
[14:12:36] <andypugh> Topy44: 6000 bearings are radial bearings, not really ideal for axial loads
[14:12:53] <Topy44> yeah i know, but thats what was used before. which is why i wanted to replace it with an AC bearing.
[14:13:16] <Topy44> the original design is horrible. i know nothing about mechanics, but even i can see obvious issues with it.
[14:13:26] <Topy44> (surprisingly, it worked quite well for a while)
[14:13:34] <andypugh> If you have an AC at each end and tension the screw then you should eliminate lash. At the expense of (slightly) increased ball screw pitch
[14:14:30] <Topy44> AC at _each end_?
[14:14:54] <Topy44> hrm
[14:15:25] <ssi> best arrangement is two ACs back to back at one end for thrust loads in either direction, and a radial support bearing at the far end
[14:15:27] <Topy44> my plan was to fix it on one side only
[14:15:42] <Topy44> but there is no thrust load in the other direction
[14:15:52] <ssi> lathe?
[14:15:56] <Topy44> 3d printer
[14:16:03] <ssi> 3d printer with ballscrews?
[14:16:04] <Topy44> z axis
[14:16:08] <Topy44> ssi: yes
[14:16:12] <ssi> there's not much thrust load there either
[14:16:15] <ssi> just the weight of the axis
[14:16:18] <lair82> Our machines all have sets of 3 AC's on the servo end, and then the radial can float longitudinally on the other end.
[14:16:19] <Topy44> exactly
[14:16:22] <ssi> you could get away with a radial bearing and a thrust bearing
[14:16:31] <ssi> not really any good reason for the relatively expensive AC bearing
[14:16:41] <ssi> lair82: why 3?
[14:16:51] <Topy44> well, i already ordered the AC bearings, they were cheap enough
[14:16:54] <andypugh> Just the thrust bearing might be fine, depending on how the drive is arranged.
[14:17:13] <ssi> yeah for Z on a 3d printer thrust bearing alone is probably fine
[14:17:18] <ssi> since there's no radial load
[14:17:26] <Topy44> well there is some, as its belt driven
[14:17:28] <lair82> Not sure, but they all pretty much ( lathes and mills ) have 3 of them on the servo ends.
[14:17:35] <Topy44> so belt tension puts some load on it
[14:17:39] <ssi> ah ok
[14:17:56] <ssi> yeah a single AC bearing oriented correctly should be sufficient
[14:18:04] <Topy44> ok
[14:18:08] <ssi> lair82: interesting
[14:18:34] <LatheBuilderShop> do they use the z axis leadscrew for lateral stability of build platform?
[14:18:41] <Topy44> no
[14:18:47] <lair82> No, very expensive if they fail :(
[14:19:14] <Topy44> there are two 8mm shafts with linear bearings for lateral stability
[14:19:23] <ssi> Topy44: what kind of machine is this?
[14:20:13] <Topy44> ssi: its called an orcabot v042, looks something like this: http://blog.eldhrimnir.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/DSC09806res.jpg
[14:20:29] <Topy44> thats not ours, and slightly different version, plus ours has been modified quite a bit
[14:20:36] <Topy44> but thats the basic design
[14:20:54] <ssi> hm
[14:21:07] <ssi> I would think the build platform wouldn't be stable enough longitudinally
[14:21:08] <Topy44> the structure is waterjet-cut 3mm aluminium plate
[14:21:37] <Topy44> sorry, 4mm
[14:21:45] <Topy44> ssi: its...ok-ish
[14:21:58] <ssi> it looks like it's supported by one smooth rod on either side and then the leadscrews
[14:22:04] <PCW> lair82: sure sounds like something funky with the 7I44 or its power or wiring
[14:22:10] <ssi> I'd much rather see two smooth rods on either side, spaced as far apart as practical
[14:22:20] <ssi> and either leadscrews in the middle, or two leadscrews per side
[14:22:20] <Topy44> ssi: yes, thats how i'd design it
[14:22:46] <PCW> (flat cable etc)
[14:23:01] <ssi> it looks like they used the prusa-style Z motion arrangementh sorta, but the prusa style moves the head not the bed
[14:23:18] <ssi> and the X axis on a prusa is much narrower so the tipping moment isn't nearly as b ad
[14:23:34] <andypugh> I have a vague feeling that triple-AC setups are to prevent an oscillation mode of the screw at high speed. But don’t quote me on that
[14:23:38] <Topy44> however its not as bad as it seems. the linear bearings are far enough apart to make it reasonably stable. and i am replacing the printed plastic bearing blocks with adjustable aluminium ones (adjustable as in adjustable preload)
[14:23:47] <ssi> just the slop in the linear bearings on those rods is going to cause the bed to rock enough to make a noticeable difference
[14:24:09] <Topy44> so...no more slop
[14:24:14] <Topy44> (or very minimal)
[14:24:18] <andypugh> Isn’t replacing 3DP parts with machine parts showing a lack of faith?
[14:24:28] <ssi> minimal slop is still slop :)
[14:24:31] <Topy44> andypugh: sure it is, and kind of the point :)
[14:24:43] <andypugh> Anyway, into the workshop to measure the lathe
[14:24:52] <Topy44> i want to get rid of as many printed parts as possible without spending too much
[14:24:59] <andypugh> (I am building a 3D CAD model to think with)
[14:25:00] <ssi> you could do the math on it... if you have .001" clearance in the bearing, over say 5/8" length, how much angular displacement is that
[14:25:13] <ssi> and then how much does that angular displacement translate to on a 6" arm at the end of that bed
[14:25:23] <Topy44> how many furlongs is that?
[14:25:27] <ssi> probably more than an extrusion layer
[14:25:38] <ssi> conversions into the arcane system of your choice is left as an exercise for the reader
[14:25:42] <PCW> 7i80hd_16_rmesvss6_6.bit was made in April of this year so a version complaint makes no sense unless you have a much older copy
[14:26:04] <lair82> PCW ,I will look at the cabling tomorrow, they did all the wiring, and mounting of the components ( that I supplied to them), I am just supposed to be programming/tuning the machine for them.
[14:26:16] <Topy44> ssi: well all i can say is: its more stable than i'd expect, but yes, i wouldn't design it this way either
[14:26:30] <Topy44> but i'm not doing major structural changes to it. if i start doing that i might as well just design a new printer.
[14:26:44] <ssi> I only bring it up because I've built a handful of 3d printers and had similar problems
[14:26:46] <Topy44> (which i am planning on doing some day, but right now the idea is just to upgrade this one)
[14:26:58] <ssi> first one i ever built was a prusa air, and it was made of lasercut acrylic sheet
[14:27:01] <ssi> which LOOKED awesome
[14:27:11] <ssi> but it was flimsy, and I had lots of issues because of lack of rigidity
[14:27:12] <ssi> hilariously
[14:27:24] <Topy44> yeah.. the issue almost all 3d printers have
[14:27:31] <malcom2073> C'mon ssi, you know that the flimsyness is required for them to work properly :)
[14:27:41] <ssi> well the second one I built was a prusa, made of allthread and printed parts
[14:27:46] <ssi> and it was several orders of magnitude more rigid
[14:27:46] <PCW> you can also set sserial_port_0=00000000 if there's any question about where they are connected on the 7I44 (that enables all 8)
[14:27:54] <Topy44> the problem is that most 3d printers are designed by people that have exactly zero clue about machine design
[14:27:57] <ssi> it LOOKED flimsier, but was much more stable
[14:28:02] <PCW> all 8
[14:28:15] <Topy44> they experiment until the result works
[14:28:15] <ssi> third machine I built was a mendelmax, but with some changes I made
[14:28:23] <Topy44> but they don't know why stuff works or doesn't :)
[14:28:24] <ssi> all Igubal bearings, acme screw for Z leadscrews
[14:28:35] <ssi> it's a very stable machine and I've had good luck with it
[14:28:56] <Topy44> anyway, the crappy leadscrews are causing issues, and ball screws are not expensive anymore
[14:28:57] <Topy44> so
[14:28:59] <Topy44> might as well
[14:29:18] <ssi> overkill... good quality acme screws are sufficient
[14:29:24] <Topy44> sure
[14:29:27] <ssi> and mine are direct drive, so two motors for the Z
[14:29:29] <lair82> No, I know the RJ45 cabling is correct, I went over that this morning, I haven't look at the ribbon cabling in detail though, I checked they were connected to the connector on the 7i80 and that was it.
[14:29:33] <ssi> no bearings necessary
[14:29:45] <ssi> overkill is fine, but ballscrews are a hassle to mount
[14:29:48] <ssi> the nuts take a lot of space
[14:29:53] <Topy44> there is enough space
[14:29:58] <Topy44> i measured it all
[14:29:59] <Topy44> it fits
[14:30:05] <ssi> and they're not expensive anymore, but they're not as cheap as acme screw :)
[14:30:10] <Topy44> anyway
[14:30:17] <Topy44> its already decided :)
[14:30:19] <ssi> sure
[14:30:39] <ssi> anyway, there's almost no load on those screws
[14:30:41] <Topy44> its not my money, its our hackerspaces, so i had to present the plan and get the ok for the budget
[14:30:43] <ssi> the weight of the bed
[14:30:50] <ssi> and the tiny bit of radial load caused by the b elt
[14:30:56] <ssi> which, since it's timing belt, really isn't much
[14:31:00] <ssi> don't need a ton of tension
[14:31:03] <Topy44> yeah
[14:31:16] <lair82> My bit file shows march of this year??
[14:31:43] <lair82> That's when I put it on my thumb drive anyway.
[14:32:45] <lair82> PCW, was there a revision made to it?
[14:32:54] <Topy44> so, again: my plan, from the bottom up, is: timing belt pulley, flat m10 nut, 26x10x8mm AC bearing, collar/ring, actual ball screw thread, then a 16x8x4mm radial bearing
[14:32:55] <Topy44> and thats it
[14:33:04] <Topy44> (top floating)
[14:33:14] <ssi> what's the collar/ring?
[14:34:14] <Topy44> ssi: something like this: http://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/images/P/SHAFT-COLLARS.jpg
[14:34:28] <ssi> I figured, but what's its purpose?
[14:34:55] <Topy44> to have a nice contact surface on the AC bearing, instead of just the 2mm of machined off thread
[14:35:08] <Topy44> or rather 1mm
[14:35:20] <Topy44> i mean, its a 10mm ID bearing, and a 12mm screw
[14:35:24] <ssi> oh I see, you don't have enough shoulder?
[14:35:32] <Topy44> just 1mm
[14:36:16] <Topy44> and i already have those collar things around anyway as they used them on the old lead screws
[14:36:29] <Topy44> which were not machined at all, they used the collars as stops on the lower bearing
[14:36:42] <PCW> lair82 no
[14:36:58] <ssi> gotcha
[14:37:15] <ssi> so you don't need to tension the lower bearing at all
[14:37:21] <ssi> the weight of the axis is enough to preload the bearing
[14:37:27] <Topy44> ah, you think?
[14:37:39] <ssi> the bearing can sit in a bore on the top of the baseplate, with the weight of the screw bearing down on it
[14:37:43] <ssi> yeah I think that's fine
[14:37:49] <ssi> again your loads in this application are tiny
[14:38:06] <Topy44> yeah the bearing sits in a hole in the baseplate with some funky contraption holding it in place
[14:38:11] <Topy44> works well enough
[14:38:29] <ssi> and actually, if there's some endplay in your Z screws, it gives you a wee bit of crashworthiness
[14:38:35] <Topy44> hehe
[14:38:42] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. a question about stop motion and start the next line program. On anothers CNC the motion the next line wait the all axis commanded are in position window . In lnuxcnc ?
[14:38:50] <ssi> er never mind
[14:38:58] <Topy44> no it wouldn't
[14:38:59] <ssi> because your BED is the movable part, you don't get crashworthiness
[14:39:02] <Topy44> yeah
[14:39:05] <ssi> if it was a movable head you would
[14:39:15] <ssi> it'd just lift the screws if you jogged the head into the bed
[14:39:22] <Topy44> yeah
[14:39:41] <Topy44> anyway, the bed is spring loaded, so there is some give there anyway
[14:39:48] <ssi> yeah mine too
[14:40:01] <Topy44> (luckily. it crashed more than once in its life. :)
[14:40:18] <Topy44> so... you think i should leave out the nut at the bottom?
[14:40:24] <Topy44> i mean, it costs nothing to add
[14:40:26] <ssi> well it won't hurt anything
[14:40:28] <Topy44> yeah
[14:40:37] <Topy44> is it ok to preload the AC bearing this way?
[14:40:48] <ssi> yes
[14:40:53] <ssi> you might consider having a second shoulder on the screw
[14:40:59] <ssi> a smaller diameter that the pulley runs on
[14:41:04] <ssi> with its own thread to secure the pulley
[14:41:28] <Topy44> hm, sorry not getting what you mean
[14:42:09] <Topy44> looking at http://dump.t44.org/2015-09-02_20-11-02.png again
[14:42:24] <Topy44> the pulley sits on the 16mm bit at the end, and is fixed with 2 grub screws
[14:42:38] <Topy44> 6mm diameter
[14:42:44] <ssi> ah yes
[14:42:46] <lair82> PCW, ok, well I am going to take a spare 7i44 with me for tomorrow, and see what comes of it.
[14:42:55] <ssi> that's what I meant, but I was envisioning a thread on the 6mm section with a nut for the pulley
[14:42:58] <ssi> but grub screws is more likely
[14:43:11] <Topy44> well, one advantage of leaving out the nut would be that i could use a 10mm-bore pulley
[14:43:18] <Topy44> (which i also already have, so less stuff to buy)
[14:44:18] <Topy44> ah, another idea: i could put the thread at the end, and use the nut to screw the pulley against a spacer which then goes against the bearing.
[14:44:37] <ssi> you can, but then your pulley is involved in your AC preload
[14:44:51] <ssi> which is what I was trying to avoid by mentioning a second shoulder for the pulley
[14:44:55] <Topy44> ah
[14:45:05] <Topy44> well forget that then
[14:45:14] <ssi> the drawing you linked is what I'd be leaning toward
[14:45:33] <ssi> and if it were me, I probably would have used a cheap radial bearing and a cheap thrust bearing in place of the AC and collar
[14:45:40] <tiwake> has anyone heard of these guys before? http://elongshine.com/382
[14:45:41] <ssi> caus ethe thrust bearing gives you the shoulder you're lacking
[14:45:45] <Topy44> well the AC is chinese and was cheap :)
[14:45:52] <Topy44> ah
[14:45:54] <tiwake> I'm looking at getting a screen replacement
[14:46:00] <tiwake> as is in that link
[14:46:22] <tiwake> they are in china
[15:03:09] <andypugh> That’s interesting. I seem to have burned out a bulb in an indicator on my machine. It was meant to run on 110V, but I was giving it 240. It was a bit bright. I have just taken the bulb out, and that is a 6V bulb. I wonder if there is a big resistor in the base of the holder?
[15:04:15] <cradek> capacitor?
[15:04:51] <cradek> whatever it is, please report back
[15:07:16] <andypugh> I suspect I will just replace the whole thing with a 240V LED indicator. Or possibly try a 12V bulb
[15:07:55] <Wolf_Mill> might as well do led
[15:07:55] <ssi> 240V neon lamp
[15:07:57] <ssi> indicator lamp
[15:08:04] <Wolf_Mill> or that ^
[15:08:20] <ssi> http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/neon-indicator
[15:09:09] <andypugh> It’s a 1” hole, I think
[15:09:24] <ssi> that's a big indicator!
[15:09:29] <andypugh> 1968
[15:10:18] <cradek> bet andypugh can tell the difference between a 6V incandescent and a neon bulb
[15:10:41] <ssi> cradek: I'm not suggesting he can't, merely suggesting a simple replacement
[15:10:46] <cradek> ah :-)
[15:10:51] <tiwake> I also found this http://www.kongto.cc/sell-a61l_0001_0093-1853640.html
[15:11:01] <cradek> but who cares about that - I want to know what he has!
[15:11:03] <ssi> 240V neon indicators are common and cheap, and that's exactly the application they're intended for
[15:11:27] <andypugh> The indicator is in a funny place, right under the threading gearbox engagement lever: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/imaBHuB3zsysMpG9-SYOGdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[15:11:42] <ssi> hm weird
[15:12:04] <ssi> what does it indicate? just machine power?
[15:12:20] <andypugh> Yes, machine is live
[15:12:43] <andypugh> because if you nudge that joystick, the spindle starts
[15:14:23] <Wolf_Mill> 3 watt led, wont have to look down to tell if its lit
[15:14:34] <ssi> laser diode? :P
[15:14:53] <ssi> you can't tell if the machine is on or not, but if you try to find out you may lose your eyesight
[15:15:03] <XXCoder> lol
[15:16:36] <ssi> http://conradhoffman.com/RFQ_response.htm
[15:27:11] <malcom2073> ssi: Nice!
[15:27:27] <malcom2073> Forwarding that to my father, who is a mechanical engineer hehe
[15:27:33] <ssi> :D
[15:27:43] <ssi> so he designs stuff that can't be manufactured?
[15:27:54] <malcom2073> Nah he's also a machinest
[15:28:00] <ssi> that's good :D
[15:28:24] <malcom2073> He's the reason I got into CNC :) But yeah, he's dealt with his share of other mechies that have no idea of reality
[15:29:23] <Topy44> heh, i might be getting that form a few times soon :)
[15:29:34] <Topy44> (will be ordering a lost of custom machined parts in the near future)
[15:29:37] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. a question about stop motion and start the next line program. On anothers CNC the motion the next line wait the all axis commanded are in position window . In lnuxcnc ?
[15:31:35] <JT-Shop> I don't understand your question, try and rephrase it or elaborate a bit more what you want to do
[15:32:22] <malcom2073> Topy44: Nonsense, get yourself a mill and make your own! :P
[15:33:00] <Topy44> malcom2073: well, its stuff that will have to be kinda mass-produced. well, not exactly "mass", but 100-200pcs
[15:33:08] <Topy44> as in "i'd rather pay someone to do it"
[15:33:20] <malcom2073> Quitter talk :)
[15:34:48] <ssi> lolol
[15:39:05] <Wolf_Mill> get mill, learn to use it while cnc converting it, make parts
[15:41:19] <motioncontrol> JT-Shop, thanks for reply. when a axis move and finisch movement, in anothers CNC the interpreter for executed the next line wait the axis is stopped in precision window value. On Siemens you have a DM whit value in mm( noemally 0.01mm). This tollerance is position window ok. If the axis for same problem not stop in this tollerance , the interpreter not executed the next line .understand ?
[15:43:08] <motioncontrol> JT-Shop, in linuxcnc we not have this value . how interpreter test the axis in precision tollerance ?
[15:43:47] <JT-Shop> axis position error
[15:44:22] <JT-Shop> stepper or servo machine?
[15:45:11] <malcom2073> Son of a ..... So these 100v Elmo drives apparently drop out at 95VDC
[15:45:15] <motioncontrol> servo machine
[15:45:28] <motioncontrol> closed loop
[15:45:46] <JT-Shop> is this a LinuxCNC controlled machine?
[15:46:01] <motioncontrol> position error not is good , because it normally is large value 1mm
[15:46:29] <motioncontrol> yes , my question is machine used linuxcnc.
[15:46:48] <JT-Shop> normally position error is not that big except for tuning
[15:47:12] <motioncontrol> i thing we improve this value , for have sure exact stop position the axis, for read the next line.
[15:47:18] <JT-Shop> anyway you could create something in hal to do that
[15:48:04] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/near.9.html
[15:49:51] <motioncontrol> yes , the problem not is in hal or create the something, whit it you don't can wait the interpreter read.
[15:50:48] <motioncontrol> this is philosophy the CNC and type the control motion
[15:54:58] <andypugh> motioncontrol: Are you possibly just talkig about following-error limits?
[15:57:25] <motioncontrol> andypugh, no i stay speack about the interpret decision, when axis is in position.
[15:58:27] <andypugh> I don’t understand why you would want to keep stopping to check
[15:59:47] <motioncontrol> all cnc on the word use this sistem for ceck the axis in precision position value. This because the machine not move at the next line if a axis not is in position ok.
[16:00:47] <JT-Shop> none of my cnc machines do that
[16:01:03] <motioncontrol> you image a axis have some meccanical problem , and it stop motion 0,5 mm first the really commanded stop.the others cnc not executed the naxt line, linuxcnc yes
[16:01:34] * JT-Shop slept through philosophy class so I'm going to the store
[16:01:34] <andypugh> That’s following error, and LinuxCNC will stop _if_ it knows there is a positional error
[16:02:18] <andypugh> (Though it doesn’t only check at the end of a program line, it checks all the time)
[16:03:06] <andypugh> If it is a mechanical problem _after_ the encoder, then no system can know there is a mechanical problem and stop.
[16:03:42] <motioncontrol> the following error is the value you impose for control the axis not have excessive difference about commanded position . this not is position ok.
[16:10:19] <andypugh> No, you have it the wrong way round. The Following Error Limit is the deviation from the commanded path that the axes are allowed to be before an error is triggered (and all motion is stopped). That is not the same as the path follwing tolerance (G64 mode/value)
[16:10:32] <andypugh> F-error limits are set in the INI file.
[16:10:45] <andypugh> path folowing deviation limits are set in the G-code
[16:12:08] <motioncontrol> andypugh, in linuxcnc the interpretere how wait for read the next line ?
[16:12:49] <andypugh> It doesn’t. If there is a following error at any point it stops there and then
[16:13:33] <andypugh> Why would you wait until the end of the line to stop the machine? That could be 20 feet and 4 hours away.
[16:15:50] <Topy44> ssi and the others who have been looking over it: http://dump.t44.org/2015-09-02_22-52-20.png
[16:15:52] <Topy44> better?
[16:16:23] <ssi> yea but I'm a smidge concerned about that 10mm bearing journal
[16:16:34] <Topy44> hm?
[16:16:37] <ssi> it looks like the root of the ballscrew thread is deeper than that
[16:16:48] <ssi> you may have NO shoulder, practically
[16:17:05] <Topy44> well actually my ballscrew thread is guessed - i didn't check specs how deep the thread really is
[16:17:15] <ssi> yea but that may be an issue
[16:17:21] <ssi> you ordering this stuff from lmb2008?
[16:17:24] <Topy44> also: 10mm is the diameter they mill it to by default, for the blocks you can buy for this ball screw
[16:17:29] <ssi> oh is it
[16:17:35] <PetefromTn_> afternoon fellas
[16:17:36] <ssi> in t hat case it may be fine
[16:17:38] <ssi> hey pete
[16:17:44] <Topy44> here is the specific one i'm getting: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1204-Ball-Screw-SFU1204-L-350mm-Rolled-Ballscrew-with-single-Ballnut-for-CNC-parts-Contains-2/1997774623.html
[16:17:44] <PetefromTn_> and ladies ;)
[16:18:32] <Topy44> hm, sec, another seller of the same one has a drawing of their default machining
[16:18:42] <Wolf_Mill> odd, 12mm from thk comes with 8mm bearing shaft
[16:18:59] <Topy44> hm
[16:19:14] <Topy44> well maybe i'm wrong...one sec
[16:19:31] <Topy44> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/12mm-SFU1204-L211mm-Rolled-Ball-screw-Set-End-Machined-Ball-screw-Nut-Housing-FK10-FF10-Support/32348818212.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.21.9eyKK1&ws_ab_test=201407_5,201444_5,201409http://www.aliexpress.com/item/12mm-SFU1204-L211mm-Rolled-Ball-screw-Set-End-Machined-Ball-screw-Nut-Housing-FK10-FF10-Support/32348818212.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.21.9eyKK1&ws_ab_test=201407
[16:19:40] <Wolf_Mill> 14mm and 15mm comes with 10mm bearing shaft
[16:19:48] <Topy44> this quite clearly comes with 10mm
[16:20:04] <ssi> yea if they can cut a 10mm journal that's smooth then I'd say that's fine
[16:20:20] <PetefromTn_> http://prlmotorsports.com/prlmotorsportsmanifoldtoolset.aspx#.VedgB_lViko might need to make one of these ;)
[16:20:21] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, also comes with a encoder coupler :P
[16:21:58] <Topy44> right, just noticed that i actually didn't measure the overall length i need correctly :)
[16:22:19] <ssi> measure twice, order parts from china once :D
[16:22:22] <andypugh> You won’t pull even a 0.5mm shoulder through a bearing.
[16:22:35] <Wolf_Mill> not very cheap for cheap china ballscrew...
[16:22:47] <ssi> andypugh: more concerned about the knife edge of thread as the only uneven shoulder
[16:24:16] <tiwake> anyone know the chances I can get a pinout from fanuc for the board A16B-1212-021 on the CCX5 connector?
[16:26:23] <Wolf_Mill> call them and find out
[16:26:30] <Topy44> Wolf_Mill: first link, not second
[16:26:36] <Topy44> second link was just for the drawing
[16:26:42] <motioncontrol> andypugh, read : http://infosys.beckhoff.com/english.php?content=../content/1033/axispos/html/description.htm&id=
[16:27:41] <andypugh> motioncontrol: Why should I do what you tell me to do?
[16:27:54] <Topy44> hm... better increase the length of the upper machined part a bit
[16:27:58] <Topy44> give it a little wiggleroom
[16:28:04] <andypugh> (I did anyway, that’s what LinuxCNC calls Following Error)
[16:29:05] <tiwake> 1-888-326-8287 is the fanuc number I should call?
[16:31:03] <ssi> lol good luck with that
[16:31:11] <Deejay> gn8
[16:32:01] <tiwake> ssi: talking to me?
[16:32:08] <ssi> yeah
[16:32:26] <Wolf_Mill> no idea tiwake, call whatever numbers you can find, ask to talk to a product engineer imo
[16:32:39] <tiwake> ssi: why? do they not like people building machines with their products?
[16:33:09] <tiwake> I've never tried to contact fanuc before, no idea what to expect
[16:33:10] <ssi> people? probably not
[16:33:12] <andypugh> tiwake: There is a chap on CNC zone knows this kind of stuff. Try searching the forum there for the answer
[16:33:14] <ssi> authorized OEMs maybe
[16:33:27] <ssi> and at any rate, calling the front door is likely to be a useless runaround
[16:33:31] <ssi> but seriously, good luck with it
[16:33:40] <ssi> I hope you have success
[16:33:48] <Wolf_Mill> ^ thats why I said ask to talk to someone not in sales lol
[16:35:21] <tiwake> the problem is my A61L-0001-0063 screen module is borked, I want to replace it with an LCD screen, but I'd need the video input pinout from that other board before I can even start
[16:35:45] <tiwake> need to know what kind of video signal it is, and if its feasable to replace it with an LCD screen
[16:36:11] <ssi> scope it in-situ, you can probably work it out reasonably well
[16:36:18] <ssi> I imagine it's probably VGA
[16:36:26] <ssi> or maybe EGA or something if it's an old enough machine
[16:37:17] <andypugh> Hercules?
[16:37:50] <tiwake> ssi: in-situ?
[16:38:00] <ssi> in place... with the machine running
[16:38:10] <tiwake> on
[16:38:12] <tiwake> *oh
[16:38:18] <tiwake> in-site
[16:39:03] <tiwake> I dont have an oscilloscope
[16:39:17] <ssi> well now, that's a dilemma
[16:39:23] <Wolf_Mill> where are you at tiwake
[16:39:34] <tiwake> tillamook oregon :P
[16:39:59] <Wolf_Mill> usa, get a rigol scope, $375 iirc
[16:40:10] <ssi> 399 free shipping from tequipment.net
[16:40:11] <andypugh> Sounds like time to buy an oscilloscope :-)
[16:40:24] <ssi> best scope to dollar ratio out there
[16:40:29] <ssi> DS1054Z
[16:40:31] <andypugh> Or buy one of the $60 pocket scopes
[16:40:33] <Topy44> yeah the rigols are amazing for the money
[16:40:38] <Wolf_Mill> ssi, plus a 6% off for eev blog fourm members
[16:40:42] <ssi> orite
[16:40:47] <ssi> I neglected to do that when I ordered mine
[16:41:17] <Wolf_Mill> i love mine, great scope for the $$
[16:42:04] <Wolf_Mill> more so after you hack it lol
[16:42:16] <ssi> yep
[16:42:31] <anonimasu> does anyone got a clue what the spindle seals on the vertical spindle on a maho 700s are?
[16:43:00] * anonimasu is doing preventive maintenance
[16:43:05] <furrywolf> polymers! :P
[16:43:24] <ssi> space age ones!
[16:43:33] <ssi> (implying made in the 60s I guess)
[16:43:47] <anonimasu> 89..
[16:43:54] <andypugh> Is it crazy to consider making a new cross-slide from scratch to avoid messing up the original one?
[16:43:56] <ssi> cocaine-age polymers!
[16:44:10] <ssi> andypugh: http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382.html
[16:44:17] <andypugh> They are not very complicated things, really
[16:44:32] <anonimasu> well, i'd perfer to say nonexistant.
[16:44:42] <anonimasu> or german.
[16:44:43] <ssi> worst part is accurately cutting the dovetail, making a new gib, and scraping everything in
[16:45:11] <andypugh> Yeah. I already made a new Gib once, but in this case I think I would re-use the original gib
[16:45:21] <ssi> andypugh: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/machining-t-slotted-cross-slide-177054/
[16:47:32] <andypugh> I would need my own casting, part of the point is to have a solid lump in place of the compound slide, and to make a place for a ball-nut to live.
[16:47:53] <ssi> it's not a hard casting to produce
[16:48:11] <ssi> I talked to the guy that sells those castings about whether or not his tslot slide was suitable for a heavy 10
[16:48:14] <ssi> it's designed for the 9
[16:48:27] <andypugh> No, and the tapered dovetail is probably pretty easy with a CNC mill :-)
[16:48:28] <ssi> he said it could be made to work, but I'd be better off just making a pattern based on my lathe and having someone pour a couple
[16:48:52] <andypugh> Making a gib is quite a game
[16:49:22] <ssi> most people seem to skip the tapered gib and make a flat gib with side screws like the cheap chinese machines use
[16:49:32] <andypugh> And starting with a 1 1/4” bar didn’t make it easier: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/rivett-lathe-slideway-refurb-as.html
[16:49:49] <andypugh> (I am not most people :-)
[16:50:14] <Wolf_Mill> er32 setup is nice btw :)
[16:50:22] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: pics?
[16:50:37] * JT-Shop does not respond well to kindergarten logic
[16:50:37] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/8TEjtQb.jpg
[16:50:51] <ssi> JT-Shop: which?
[16:51:05] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: awesome :D
[16:51:13] <ssi> I have 5C setups for all my lathes but no ER
[16:51:23] <ssi> I have ER32 CAT40 tooling for the vmc
[16:51:34] <JT-Shop> yes , the problem not is in hal or create the something, whit it you don't can wait the interpreter read.
[16:51:34] <JT-Shop> <motioncontrol> this is philosophy the CNC and type the control motion
[16:51:36] <Wolf_Mill> why the hell didnt I get one of these sooner lol
[16:52:00] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: money probably :D
[16:52:05] <ssi> collet sets aren't cheap
[16:52:16] <JT-Shop> wow you have a chucker now, that makes it so easy
[16:52:19] <Wolf_Mill> $110 25 collets
[16:52:19] <andypugh> For my new lathe I have: http://www.cottandco.com/en/lots/burnerd-multisize-collet-chuck
[16:53:04] <ssi> andypugh: what do you call that style of collet
[16:53:14] <andypugh> Burnerd Multisize
[16:53:18] <ssi> ah
[16:53:38] <andypugh> And it isn’t technically a colet.
[16:54:01] <andypugh> The (very similar, but different angle) Crawford Mutlibore sets are true collets
[16:54:05] <ssi> well it's the same sort of design as what tapping heads use
[16:54:08] <ssi> and they call them collets :)
[16:54:36] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6WoCzcD_0
[16:54:40] <ssi> I need to get my dang HNC back running
[16:54:48] <ssi> it's such an awesome machine
[16:55:13] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/jSDniQa.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sCdqpn0.jpg meh..
[16:55:31] <andypugh> ssi: Much bigger than tapping chucks, though :-)
[16:55:34] <ssi> PetefromTn_: your work?
[16:55:36] <ssi> andypugh: yes much
[16:55:58] <PetefromTn_> ssi well the one on the left and the fixture is ;)
[16:56:07] <ssi> I like the fixture
[16:56:17] <ssi> so you're saying someone else did the finish welding?
[16:56:27] <ssi> or the one on the right is what you used to make the fixture
[16:56:29] <andypugh> The one on the left look leakier
[16:56:31] <PetefromTn_> the one on the right is the one the guy made before I started
[16:56:36] <ssi> gotcha
[16:56:43] <ssi> machining the flanges on the cinci?
[16:56:58] <PetefromTn_> now I gotta setup to make them so we are making fixtures etc.
[16:57:16] <PetefromTn_> ssi honestly I was going to but they are getting these pretty cheap.
[16:57:51] <PetefromTn_> once I get the setup working and start getting them welded up nice and pretty they want me to either make them or at least engrave them with their logo and make some mods to them...
[16:57:57] <ssi> yea those are laserworthy parts
[16:58:02] <andypugh> I think I would want to weld the siamesed ports inside rather than outside. But then I literally know nothing about pipe fabrication
[16:58:06] <PetefromTn_> that is precisely what I said
[16:58:20] <PetefromTn_> they get welded inside and outside
[16:58:36] <PetefromTn_> then grinded/ported etc..
[16:58:46] <andypugh> The outside weld is just to look pretty then?
[16:58:52] <PetefromTn_> I will say that making that round tube fit that rectangular hole is a REAL BITCH LOL
[16:59:52] <ssi> make a die, press form them
[17:00:15] <PetefromTn_> the fixture will eventually have a removable standoff for the other port there but we are waiting for some special hardware that will help with heat soaking/warping
[17:00:18] <ssi> how thick is that tubing? looks very thick
[17:00:21] <PetefromTn_> ssi that is not a bad idea
[17:00:31] <PetefromTn_> it is REALLY thick... schedule 40 about .140
[17:00:34] <ssi> ug
[17:00:38] <ssi> why so thick
[17:00:48] <PetefromTn_> that is what they all use apparently
[17:01:11] <PetefromTn_> it holds up that HUGE turbo and is self supporting as well as takes the prodigious heat better apparenlty
[17:01:28] <PetefromTn_> I am just getting started with this so I don't know all the answers...
[17:01:35] <ssi> yea
[17:01:35] <PetefromTn_> how does it look to you guys so far?
[17:01:38] <ssi> looks great
[17:01:45] <tiwake> ssi: one of these? http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=0
[17:01:49] <PetefromTn_> honestly?
[17:01:50] <ssi> are you doing the v-grinding by hand on a bench grinder?
[17:01:56] <ssi> tiwake: yea that's the one
[17:02:04] <PetefromTn_> by hand on my angle grinder with a flap disk
[17:02:12] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yeah man... but I wanna see it when it's finish welded and polished :)
[17:02:28] <PetefromTn_> this one apparenlty is not getting polished
[17:02:31] <tiwake> I've never used an oscilloscope before...
[17:02:49] <PetefromTn_> and being my very first one I doubt the welds will be anything to brag about LOL
[17:02:51] <ssi> tiwake: well... don't go spending all your money if you don't have another use for it
[17:03:07] <ssi> tiwake: that's just how I would go about trying to troubleshoot something like that, because I've got the tools and experience alreay
[17:03:17] <ssi> if you need a scope, that's the one to buyp
[17:03:37] <tiwake> there have been a couple of notable times when I could have used one...
[17:03:46] <JT-Shop> thicker is easier to weld
[17:03:53] <ssi> yeah definitely
[17:03:56] <PetefromTn_> I'll tell you what tho cutting and mitering that tube is a pain in the ass tho... I did manage to come up with a helpful solution
[17:04:02] <tiwake> I suppose if I was building my own machine I would want one
[17:04:07] <ssi> the aircraft exhausts I work with are 321 0.035 wall
[17:04:11] <ssi> and that welding is fiddly
[17:04:20] <PetefromTn_> I took my cheap chinese CNC vise over there to weld parts on
[17:04:23] <Wolf_Mill> on the plus side,that scope has some basic logic testing build in
[17:04:27] <ssi> I butt welded some extensions on the RV exhaust recently
[17:04:45] <PetefromTn_> and I found that I can actually put it in the 7x12 and hold the parts right next to the blade without any problems
[17:05:14] <PetefromTn_> thicker is generally easier to weld for sure
[17:05:49] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7dcCIWcAAxNDC.jpg:large
[17:05:50] <PetefromTn_> but these have to look REALLY good and they have to be pretty stout once welded so I have a lot of practicing to do.
[17:05:52] <ssi> not anything like pretty :P
[17:06:02] <ssi> the one on the right is about 3" up, and it's almost invisible in that pic
[17:06:55] <DaViruz> grinder and paint makes me the welder i ain't :)
[17:07:05] <ssi> :H
[17:07:06] <ssi> :D
[17:07:12] <PetefromTn_> not too shabby tho really..
[17:07:26] <zeeshan> andypugh: welding on the inside is done by some
[17:07:28] <zeeshan> but i like doing the outside
[17:07:30] <PetefromTn_> you could almost fusion weld that
[17:07:34] <zeeshan> and grinding the inside to port match
[17:07:37] <ssi> if the joint is good enough
[17:07:38] <ssi> but it wasn't :P
[17:07:41] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:07:43] <zeeshan> what the heck is that
[17:07:45] <zeeshan> a mig weld?
[17:07:47] <zeeshan> :)
[17:07:50] <ssi> cram it
[17:08:02] <zeeshan> youre gonna cause an airplane to crash!
[17:08:04] <zeeshan> jk
[17:08:04] <zeeshan> :P
[17:08:42] <ssi> zeeshan: my buddy's dad is an FAA inspector, and I talked to him last night
[17:08:49] <ssi> he's going to sign me off to take my A&P tests
[17:09:00] <zeeshan> whats a p
[17:09:08] <ssi> airframe & powerplant mechanic
[17:09:18] <JT-Shop> nice
[17:09:35] <zeeshan> cool
[17:09:37] <ssi> it's a pain in the ass b ecause you either need 18 months of school or 30 months of full time documented work experience under an A&P
[17:09:44] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:09:47] <zeeshan> youre all over the plane mate
[17:09:50] <zeeshan> desk it job
[17:09:54] <zeeshan> then control course
[17:09:56] <zeeshan> now a & p!
[17:10:05] <zeeshan> what are you trying to do
[17:10:09] <zeeshan> become wikipedia?
[17:10:10] <ssi> zeeshan: my life goal is to be passably good at everything in the world that requires skill
[17:10:15] <zeeshan> :)
[17:10:22] <zeeshan> ssi im like that too
[17:10:36] <zeeshan> if i do it too long, i get bored
[17:10:42] <zeeshan> i used to love tig welding
[17:10:45] <zeeshan> i dislike it now
[17:10:49] <MacGalempsy> yo
[17:10:51] <zeeshan> it's only cause of pete i started caring again
[17:11:37] <andypugh> tiwake: To get started perhaps buy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Portable-Handheld-Pocket-sized-Nano-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-DSO201-H-/171622488899?hash=item27f57f5b43 Having a pocket one to augment the big one is not a bad idea anyway. (battery powered can have advantages sometimes with floating voltages)
[17:12:06] <JT-Shop> ssi is a regular Frank W. Abagnale but on the other side
[17:12:29] <zeeshan> my friend has that scope
[17:12:34] <zeeshan> works great for automotive use
[17:12:50] <ssi> A&P will be nice to have so I can sign off the work I do on my own shit
[17:12:55] <ssi> right now I have to beg other people to do it
[17:12:56] <Topy44> right, i think everything is correct now: http://dump.t44.org/2015-09-02_23-49-34.png
[17:12:57] <Wolf_Mill> lol I have a ds209 or w/e its called, sorta handy, but a pain in the ass to use
[17:13:05] <ssi> which was a big problem in the past, but now I have like fifteen A&P friends
[17:13:28] <JT-Shop> when I put Dad's 170 together an A&P would come by and check my work
[17:13:43] <zeeshan> how much does an a&p make
[17:13:53] <zeeshan> it sounds like a lucrative position
[17:14:19] <Topy44> how much longer would you spec the thread than actually needed?
[17:14:27] <Topy44> the m10 thread on the right in my image
[17:15:14] <ssi> zeeshan: it's not :P
[17:15:18] <ssi> 40k maybe
[17:15:39] <zeeshan> wat
[17:15:40] <ssi> well if you get on with an airline, you can make 90-100k toward the end of your career
[17:15:49] <ssi> that's in Real Money
[17:15:55] <zeeshan> that's kinda low
[17:16:00] <zeeshan> for a person who can literally make an airplane crash
[17:16:10] <ssi> lots of people can literally make an airplane crash
[17:16:15] <ssi> it's kinda high for a wrench-turner
[17:16:56] <PetefromTn_> bbl
[17:17:26] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: no!!!!!!!!!!
[17:17:28] <zeeshan> i took some pics for you
[17:17:34] <zeeshan> and you werent even around
[17:17:34] <zeeshan> :(
[17:17:36] <ssi> lol
[17:17:56] <PetefromTn_> pics of what ...I gotta go grocery shopping...then gotta machine parts later on.
[17:18:34] <zeeshan> some tig welds
[17:18:36] <zeeshan> i wanted to show you where i fail
[17:18:48] <PetefromTn_> did you see my pics from today?
[17:18:50] <zeeshan> yes
[17:18:51] <zeeshan> your jig
[17:18:54] <zeeshan> looks fantastic
[17:19:01] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/OMIu0Vj.jpg
[17:19:01] <PetefromTn_> you think so
[17:19:18] <zeeshan> yep
[17:19:20] <zeeshan> its not gonna warp
[17:19:47] <PetefromTn_> the base plate is 5/8 steel plate and the flange is an actual flange drilled for thru bolts
[17:19:55] <zeeshan> youre gonna need to make an inverted thing
[17:19:56] <zeeshan> for the v-band
[17:20:11] <ssi> zeeshan: needs moar foot control on your lifts!
[17:20:16] <PetefromTn_> I was getting pieces tacked up today on it. What a bitch making them all fit nice
[17:20:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am trying to decide how best to make the V band flange support
[17:20:48] <zeeshan> ssi ive been welding for 10 years
[17:20:51] <zeeshan> if i cant blend it
[17:20:53] <zeeshan> i can't blend it
[17:20:56] <zeeshan> it's just not my skill
[17:20:56] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking it would be nice to NOT have it on there until you do the equal length runners
[17:20:57] <zeeshan> :P
[17:21:22] <zeeshan> you might get away with making it similar to how you did yuour square tube to t4 flange
[17:21:36] <zeeshan> but for me, i always had to make a bolt on version
[17:21:39] <zeeshan> which makes it more work
[17:21:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah but then it is in the way
[17:21:51] <zeeshan> it was literally a bolt on piece
[17:21:54] <zeeshan> that went to the main plate
[17:21:58] <zeeshan> (in your case the 5/8)
[17:22:04] <PetefromTn_> that is probably what I will wind up doing
[17:22:10] <zeeshan> pete
[17:22:13] <zeeshan> i love that back purge adapter
[17:22:15] <zeeshan> that is pure sex
[17:22:23] <PetefromTn_> I know right..
[17:22:27] <zeeshan> why 3 ports though
[17:22:29] <zeeshan> i understand 2
[17:22:29] <PetefromTn_> they actually bought that.
[17:22:32] <zeeshan> cause they're a divided manifold
[17:22:36] <zeeshan> but whats the middle one for
[17:22:56] <PetefromTn_> they make dual and single inlet flanges apparently middle is for single
[17:23:04] <zeeshan> ah
[17:23:16] <PetefromTn_> he called it twin scroll on single?
[17:23:21] <PetefromTn_> I dunno LOL
[17:23:25] <PetefromTn_> or
[17:23:37] <PetefromTn_> you really think it looks okay?
[17:24:00] <zeeshan> yea
[17:24:02] <zeeshan> looks solid
[17:24:17] <zeeshan> i have respect for these guys
[17:24:19] <zeeshan> they do things proper
[17:24:21] <zeeshan> most people don't do this
[17:24:30] <zeeshan> and they call themself a fab shop..
[17:24:39] <PetefromTn_> well the fixture is my ideas but they make some awesome shit over there..
[17:24:53] <ssi> takes a lot of time to do shit right
[17:24:53] <zeeshan> no i mean
[17:24:54] <PetefromTn_> I almost went deaf in there today LOL
[17:24:57] <zeeshan> they actually want it done right
[17:25:06] <zeeshan> so they're investing $ in making you make this
[17:25:06] <ssi> most people don't want to pay for the time it takes to do shit right
[17:25:10] <PetefromTn_> they were dyno tuning that 95 all day long
[17:25:11] <zeeshan> yea ssi
[17:25:37] <zeeshan> i really do not like the exhaust flange design
[17:25:38] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan did you see my cast iron project pics from yesterday? ;)
[17:25:43] <zeeshan> it looks like it's got a wart growing on it
[17:25:50] <ssi> lol
[17:25:56] <ssi> PetefromTn_: did you see the plug gage I made last night?
[17:26:02] <PetefromTn_> no
[17:26:03] <zeeshan> yes PetefromTn_ nice man
[17:26:08] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN5-vI4WoAAxHA9.jpg:large
[17:26:10] <andypugh> Is it worth having a foot pedal for TIG?
[17:26:16] <zeeshan> andypugh: LOL
[17:26:17] <ssi> andypugh: yeah it's damn near mandatory
[17:26:20] <andypugh> My welder just has an on-off trigger
[17:26:22] <zeeshan> how are you welding without a foot pedal?!?!
[17:26:24] <zeeshan> noooooooooooo
[17:26:38] <zeeshan> you can get away with on off for ferrous
[17:26:42] <zeeshan> but forget about it for nonferous
[17:26:45] <zeeshan> where youre using ac
[17:26:57] <PetefromTn_> what wart?
[17:27:00] <ssi> you'll never do thin shit without current control too
[17:27:05] <ssi> you'll blow through it like crazy
[17:27:18] <zeeshan> http://www.xtremeautoparts.com.au/shop/pc/catalog/p300-2_1442_detail.jpg
[17:27:21] <zeeshan> this is a normal 13b flange
[17:27:26] <zeeshan> notice how it's triangular
[17:27:35] <zeeshan> not weird with things growing out of the sides of it
[17:27:48] <PetefromTn_> ah okay
[17:27:52] <andypugh> I can stick Alu together, but perhaps this makes your point? https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sN6edtLhX2sbPlZYABM_XdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:27:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah they just bought that I did not make or design it
[17:28:30] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: that 13b hole job
[17:28:32] <ssi> andypugh: foot control lets you constantly regulate the size of your puddle, which is what gives you consistent beads
[17:28:32] <zeeshan> was impressive
[17:28:32] <PetefromTn_> not sure what the purpose is really.... there is a scallop cut out of the bottom of the plate too and the holes are tapered
[17:28:37] <zeeshan> i know how hard it is!
[17:28:50] <PetefromTn_> that was a BITCH to be honest with you man...
[17:28:52] <zeeshan> those aluminum housings by themself with no machine work
[17:28:55] <zeeshan> are 1200 each
[17:28:55] <PetefromTn_> those holes are SNUG
[17:28:57] <zeeshan> er
[17:28:58] <zeeshan> 800 each
[17:29:07] <PetefromTn_> they have a BUNCH of cash in that block.
[17:29:19] <PetefromTn_> that is the one that they are gonna try to push to 1000HP with...
[17:29:21] <zeeshan> is it for a customer
[17:29:22] <zeeshan> or shop car
[17:29:29] <PetefromTn_> customers car
[17:29:34] <zeeshan> nice
[17:29:42] <PetefromTn_> it is a SICK pretty RX7
[17:29:58] <PetefromTn_> last time they built it made 770HP
[17:30:03] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: so now you had the 13b in front of you
[17:30:07] <PetefromTn_> and that was without all this new stuff
[17:30:10] <zeeshan> lemme tell you why the rotary is pos
[17:30:16] <zeeshan> even though you can make serious power
[17:30:20] <zeeshan> you remember those aluminum housings?
[17:30:27] <zeeshan> with the oval inside them?
[17:30:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[17:30:58] <zeeshan> that inner liner is steel -- they literally put this steel liner inside a die cast mold cavity and pour aluminum
[17:31:01] <zeeshan> and theres mini teeth in it
[17:31:15] <zeeshan> and they become one and then they chrome it or something after
[17:31:24] <zeeshan> so basically if you gouge that (when your apex seal fails)
[17:31:28] <zeeshan> the whole housing is garbage
[17:31:35] <zeeshan> you can't remachine it like a regular piston engine bore
[17:31:40] <Tom_itx> the whole car is
[17:31:48] <Tom_itx> from day 1
[17:31:52] <zeeshan> it gets super expensive
[17:32:00] <ssi> http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.10534006.8846/sticker,375x360.png
[17:32:01] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is true...
[17:32:04] <zeeshan> can you imagine having to replace a 800$ housing
[17:32:09] <zeeshan> instead of $100 reboring?
[17:32:14] <PetefromTn_> but nothing sounds like this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBCS7CLfv8s&feature=share
[17:32:17] <zeeshan> but man when it runs right
[17:32:19] <zeeshan> its sexy
[17:32:27] <ssi> zeeshan: um
[17:32:49] <ssi> I had a valve guide break and the head was out of limits for a new guide
[17:32:57] <ssi> $1150 is what a new cylinder costs
[17:33:00] <ssi> those are the cheap ones
[17:33:08] <zeeshan> diesel i dont know anything abouyt
[17:33:12] <zeeshan> gas im talkin about :P
[17:33:14] <PetefromTn_> when you push motors to the limit there is ALWAYS something that will break and cost a ton...
[17:33:15] <ssi> this is gas
[17:33:18] <zeeshan> if your guides are worn, you can overbore the guide
[17:33:21] <zeeshan> and put oversized valves
[17:33:22] <PetefromTn_> Gotta go BBL
[17:33:25] <ssi> yes you can
[17:33:45] <ssi> except this one was already so big from the guide battering that a .080 oversized guide dropped in and rattled around
[17:34:02] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:34:07] <zeeshan> its easy to grab another head from a junkyard
[17:34:11] <zeeshan> try doing that for a rotary engine
[17:34:12] <zeeshan> :P
[17:34:20] <ssi> not exactly
[17:34:22] <zeeshan> i changed platforms for this reason
[17:34:28] <Tom_itx> what's top rpm on one?
[17:34:29] <zeeshan> v8 is built to handle more power
[17:34:29] <ssi> the head is shrink-screweed to the barrel
[17:34:34] <zeeshan> rotary?
[17:34:36] <zeeshan> 8000 factory
[17:34:37] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[17:34:41] <zeeshan> can do 10000 with mods
[17:35:05] <andypugh> zeeshan: I like the sound of this engine
[17:35:07] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmM-soQnQrc
[17:35:20] <ssi> zeeshan: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7kMwMWsAAFBJG.jpg:large
[17:35:25] <Tom_itx> v8 can do a good 9k
[17:35:45] <zeeshan> ssi nice
[17:35:46] <furrywolf> argh. so often, why is the worst thing wrong with a vehicle the fact that someone fixed it?
[17:35:58] <zeeshan> andypugh: sounds like a v8
[17:35:58] <zeeshan> :P
[17:36:09] <Tom_itx> hah
[17:36:21] <zeeshan> sound is a very opinionated thing though
[17:36:25] <zeeshan> i personally love the sound of a boxer engine
[17:36:30] <ssi> zeeshan: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7kdR9WgAAp1yV.jpg:large
[17:36:31] <zeeshan> but its just as big of a pos as a rotary
[17:36:33] <andypugh> it’s a 3-cylinder , 6-piston 2-stroke diesel with a supercharger
[17:36:38] <ssi> took me 2.5 hours to swap the cylinder
[17:36:38] <furrywolf> the fuel plumbing and wiring on this chevy is entirely fucked. the best part is someone strung the wires through the same hangers the bare e-brake cable runs in, so they all promptly got cut and shorted the first time someone put on the e-brake.
[17:36:42] <Tom_itx> yeah just like women... some like screamers
[17:36:49] <zeeshan> LOL tom
[17:37:04] <andypugh> zeeshan: That Commer _is_ a Boxer. Sort of
[17:37:20] <zeeshan> ssi wow
[17:37:23] <zeeshan> the flywheel is exposed
[17:37:27] <zeeshan> that looks cool
[17:37:32] <ssi> well not when the cowl is on
[17:37:57] <zeeshan> air cooled engine.. :P
[17:38:04] <ssi> yep
[17:38:11] <ssi> it's just a huge volkswagen engine :P
[17:38:20] <zeeshan> i see some sexy fittings in the back
[17:38:28] <zeeshan> and i see part of an odyssey battery
[17:38:28] <ssi> 5.25" bore, 320 cubic inch flat four
[17:38:28] <zeeshan> good man
[17:38:41] <ssi> yes the entire experimental world uses odyssey PC680s
[17:38:46] <andypugh> Tom_itx: reminds me of a joke “I got a sweater for christmas, I would ahve preferred a screamer or a moaner, but you take what you can get at Christmas"
[17:38:47] <ssi> they're not legal in the certified world
[17:38:49] <zeeshan> its a great battery
[17:38:56] <ssi> at Spruce they have gill demo batteries
[17:39:01] <ssi> they're hollow displays
[17:39:04] <zeeshan> andypugh: you're into older engines eh?
[17:39:13] <ssi> I've been joking about stealing one and cutting it open and putting a pc680 inside
[17:39:14] <andypugh> Older than those, yes :-)
[17:39:17] <ssi> cause I'm sick of gill batteries
[17:39:20] <ssi> they suck soooo bad
[17:39:37] <Tom_itx> i did some work on a flathead ford v8 once
[17:39:41] <zeeshan> its a bit ironic
[17:39:45] <zeeshan> cause you work on modern ford
[17:39:46] <zeeshan> :P
[17:39:58] <andypugh> Yeah, and i have never owned a car..
[17:40:09] <furrywolf> Odyssey batteries are nice, but very expensive.
[17:40:11] <zeeshan> do you dress like mad max?
[17:40:19] <zeeshan> :D
[17:40:19] <ssi> furrywolf: expensive compared to what?
[17:40:36] <furrywolf> also my experience is that thermal runaway is a pretty standard end-of-life event...
[17:40:36] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-PC680-PC680-P-Battery/dp/B0002ILK6I
[17:40:47] <furrywolf> ssi: compared to every other brand of AGM batteries. :P
[17:40:56] <zeeshan> fak optima batteries
[17:40:57] <ssi> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/gillg35.php?clickkey=35160
[17:40:57] <zeeshan> garbage
[17:41:19] <ssi> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/rg35a.php?clickkey=87485
[17:41:32] <zeeshan> how do you do upside downsies
[17:41:35] <zeeshan> with a lead acid battery
[17:41:37] <zeeshan> you're gonna get owned
[17:41:43] <furrywolf> yes, $106... while an off-brand half-U1 agm would be $15.
[17:41:59] <ssi> zeeshan: look at the gill link above
[17:42:01] * furrywolf introducts zeeshan to the concept of sealed lead-acid batteries. :P
[17:42:08] <ssi> there's vent caps with checkballs
[17:42:10] <zeeshan> sealed my ass
[17:42:12] <andypugh> zeeshan: The AGM battery in my bike is installed on its side, and is fine.
[17:42:18] <zeeshan> agm yes
[17:42:24] <zeeshan> but not these wet batteries
[17:42:25] <ssi> but that said, you generally don't use vented batteries in inverted capable batteries
[17:42:27] <zeeshan> they always piss out the vent
[17:42:27] <Tom_itx> when did they stop putting those dip things on piston rods to dip into the oil for babbit bearings?
[17:42:33] <JT-Shop> only took a $100 worth of trashed carbide end mills to make me hook up a air blower on the VMC
[17:42:47] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: when they started using pressurized lubrication systems.
[17:42:56] <andypugh> Tom_itx: They were there in statinary engines in the 1950s
[17:42:57] <ssi> zeeshan: and the battery lives in a sealed battery box with a vent out the belly for acid
[17:42:58] <furrywolf> that delivered the oil under pressure directly to the bearings. :)
[17:42:59] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, that might not be very many cutters...
[17:43:06] <JT-Shop> 2
[17:43:09] <ssi> and all the 40 year old airplanes have corrosion issues around the battery boxes
[17:43:13] <zeeshan> ssi so these certified planes used wet batteries
[17:43:15] <ssi> yes
[17:43:18] <zeeshan> that are pissing sulphiric acid on my head
[17:43:20] <Tom_itx> andypugh this was in an old ford pickup
[17:43:20] <zeeshan> everytime i walk outside
[17:43:24] <ssi> something like that
[17:43:25] <zeeshan> and agm batteries are no certified
[17:43:29] <zeeshan> makes sense
[17:43:29] <ssi> well some of them are
[17:43:30] <zeeshan> :P
[17:43:36] <JT-Shop> I had to cut 650 inches of 1/2 slots in 1/2" thick A36
[17:43:38] <ssi> the concorde I linked above is certified
[17:43:42] <ssi> but it's $300 ass dollars
[17:43:45] <Tom_itx> we fixed it by attaching a grinder to the crank and turning the rear wheel
[17:43:51] <Tom_itx> didn't remove it
[17:43:51] <furrywolf> I've had good luck with concorde batteries. I think they're the longest-lived lead-acid around.
[17:44:18] <Tom_itx> fitted with a new babbit rod
[17:44:20] <furrywolf> the guy at the local interstate battery agrees... he says he's never seen one come in as a core less than ten years old.
[17:44:22] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: no pics?!?
[17:44:39] <ssi> JT-Shop: ugh slotting's the worst
[17:44:44] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[17:44:45] <zeeshan> BS
[17:44:46] <zeeshan> LOL
[17:44:57] <zeeshan> my friends ex-mechanic friend says they are a pos
[17:45:12] <zeeshan> they are a distributor for interstate
[17:45:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: concorde batteries?
[17:45:18] <zeeshan> no
[17:45:20] <zeeshan> interstate
[17:45:41] <furrywolf> ... re-read what I said, including the line before it. :P
[17:45:45] <ssi> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/11953263_1200252389992346_8458733885530196986_n.png?oh=6042b54424845469dbb64691b5fbf7a5&oe=567D0AAF
[17:45:54] <zeeshan> stop typing funny :P
[17:45:55] <furrywolf> the interstate dealer agrees with me than concorde are the longest-lived.
[17:46:03] <andypugh> archivist: Ping?
[17:46:09] <zeeshan> what does the interstate dealer have to do with concorde?
[17:46:12] <zeeshan> i didnt get the link
[17:46:13] <zeeshan> :P
[17:46:15] <ssi> if you can't trust a guy that works in a battery store, who CAN you trust?!
[17:46:45] <zeeshan> rofl ssi
[17:46:50] <zeeshan> that cant be a real bear
[17:46:51] <furrywolf> I was talking to him about lifespan of batteries, and he said that concordes are the longest-lasting, lasting longer than his own interstates.
[17:47:05] <ssi> SAYS ITS A REAL BEAR
[17:47:31] <furrywolf> then he added that he's never seen a concorde less than ten years old come in as a core, suggesting a very large percentage of concorde batteries last longer than ten years.
[17:47:35] <ssi> k totally going home
[17:47:44] <Topy44> ssi: hrm... change of plan i think... i think i'll leave out the nut after all so i can use the pulleys i already have... the new pulleys are rather expensive and its all a bit tight space-wise anyway...
[17:47:55] <Topy44> ssi: should be ok i guess, right?
[17:48:05] <ssi> Topy44: I think that's fine... I think with as little load as you have on it, the weight of the axis is plenty of preload
[17:48:20] <ssi> and now I'm going home
[17:48:28] <Topy44> i could add a spring between the pulley and the bearing?
[17:48:34] <Topy44> to give it a little preload
[17:48:47] <zeeshan> i bought some 10oz denim fabric, polyurethane varnish, high temp paint
[17:48:50] <zeeshan> guess what im making today
[17:48:50] <ssi> it'll wear on the pulley
[17:49:00] <ssi> zeeshan: way covers
[17:49:02] <ssi> bellows maybe
[17:49:03] <zeeshan> yes
[17:49:05] <zeeshan> i hope this works
[17:49:10] <zeeshan> it cost a lot
[17:49:10] <furrywolf> you're making lumps so you can get paid and send me money. :P
[17:49:13] <zeeshan> like 75$
[17:49:13] <ssi> viel gluck
[17:49:15] <zeeshan> for all this stuff
[17:49:18] <ssi> text me pics
[17:49:42] <Topy44> ssi: thanks for your help
[17:49:44] <ssi> np
[17:50:19] <furrywolf> I really wanted to buy some NiFe batteries on ebay today, but decided I just couldn't spend the money.
[17:50:25] <furrywolf> 83 300Ah cells went for $1300.
[17:50:29] <andypugh> zeeshan: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/catalogue/results.aspx?search=bellows
[17:50:55] <zeeshan> too small
[17:52:17] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: nice. Woulhave gone for that. If not for the whole shipping thing.
[17:52:58] <furrywolf> they would have been a steal at twice the price... but I just can't toss around money like that.
[17:53:49] <SpeedEvil> If a fraction of them worked, I could recover the cost by going to night-rate electricity at a third of the rate.
[17:53:57] <SpeedEvil> In quite short order
[17:54:57] <zeeshan> andypugh: i need dimensions to be 17"x14.75"x4"
[17:55:42] <andypugh> Good luck with the Origami then :-)
[17:55:50] <zeeshan> have you done it before?
[18:06:42] <tjtr33> there was some discussion about hipressure coolant, and i couldnt remember the name of the German technology.
[18:07:08] <tjtr33> really high pressure Mediumverteiler
[18:07:20] <tjtr33> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLlVk8obaOE
[18:07:23] <tjtr33> cant see coolant
[18:07:27] <tjtr33> cant see chips
[18:10:52] <tiwake> ssi: if I have an oscilloscope, how would I go about figuring out the VGA pins?
[18:11:25] <zeeshan> mql is bad ass
[18:24:29] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: what do you mean 'figuring out' ?
[18:24:43] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: you have a non-standard connector?
[18:24:47] <tiwake> yeah
[18:24:56] <tiwake> its some sort of weird 20 pin thing
[18:25:13] <SpeedEvil> Why do you think it's VGA
[18:25:19] <SpeedEvil> and not - say - an LCD interface
[18:25:29] <tiwake> cause its a CRT screen
[18:25:35] <tiwake> heh
[18:25:44] <tiwake> and an old machine
[18:25:55] <SpeedEvil> 20 pins seems too many.
[18:26:02] <SpeedEvil> May most of them be power?
[18:26:21] <tiwake> I know at least 8 of them are something like ground
[18:26:37] <tiwake> on the screen side the middle pins are all on the same trace
[18:26:52] <tiwake> which goes to ground
[18:27:01] <SpeedEvil> You've got basically two syncs - which are digital signals at ~5V - one at ~50hz, one at ~20khz+
[18:27:09] <SpeedEvil> one is line-sync, one is frame sync
[18:27:19] <SpeedEvil> then analog outputs - three of
[18:27:36] <SpeedEvil> connect up the grounds and the syncs, and then the analog outputs go in any order to RGB
[18:27:40] <SpeedEvil> does the monitor work?
[18:28:44] <tiwake> the CRT screen is probably fine, its the supporting electronics that are fizzled... and its not obvious where the problem is on that circuit board
[18:28:54] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:29:01] <tiwake> lemme grab a link
[18:29:22] <SpeedEvil> But analog video is very, very simple to get a picture from - if you have a monitor that will sync to that
[18:31:00] <tiwake> http://cnc-electronics.com/wp-content/uploads/d9mm-11a.jpg
[18:31:05] <tiwake> thats the screen I have
[18:31:17] <tiwake> you can see the side of the PCB there a little
[18:31:35] <tiwake> something on that PCB is broken, but not obviously so
[18:31:50] <tiwake> sooo... I'm just considering my options
[18:32:21] <tiwake> if its fairly easy to figure out that its VGA and find an LCD screen that will work...
[18:33:28] <tiwake> looks like somebody already did something like that http://img.diytrade.com/smimg/1454255/32602580-1105338-0/8_4_LCD_Monitor_For_TOSHIBA_D9CM_01A_D9MM_11A_D9MR_10A_D9CM_01A_D9MRD_/21db.jpg
[18:33:29] <SpeedEvil> Most important thing to find out is scanrate.
[18:33:46] <SpeedEvil> Is it colour?
[18:34:15] <tiwake> http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/11698961/8_4_LCD_Monitor_For_TOSHIBA_D9CM_01A_D9MM_11A_D9MR_10A_D9CM_01A_D9MRD.html
[18:34:17] <tiwake> no
[18:34:20] <tiwake> monochrome
[18:34:51] <SpeedEvil> I would expect most of those lines to be power then
[18:35:15] <SpeedEvil> 8 power/8 ground, h/v sync, blanking and data
[18:37:37] <tjtr33> monochrome cnc monitors existed before vga look at mga cga ega for ideas maybe here http://www.tonyplaza.nl/vga.htm
[18:39:06] <tiwake> its a Toshiba part number... I think they started making this part in the early 1990's, perhaps 1988-1989...
[18:39:17] <tjtr33> also the sync rates can be too low for simple lcd conversion
[18:39:20] <tjtr33> part #?
[18:39:43] <tjtr33> well i'm sure you looked, but what machine?
[18:41:01] <tiwake> FW01165F-1
[18:41:13] <tiwake> its from a wasino LJ-6
[18:41:41] <tiwake> http://www.machinetoolinfo.com/FANUC-PAGE-2.html and do a search for FW01165F-1
[18:45:29] <tjtr33> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i19SZCGdpFk useful? same fanuc # crosseover
[18:48:11] <tjtr33> same sort of thing on Heidenhains, old ones are a biotch but newer ones can be hacked to use goodwill lcd's and a hand made cable
[18:50:24] <SpeedEvil> If it's NTSC rate - as is fairly likely - ebay 'reversing camera' class thigns may work
[18:52:21] <tjtr33> 20 pin pinout here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/173984-fanuc-monitor.html
[18:53:12] <tjtr33> plus """.90% of the failures in 9" monitors I've seen were all cracked solder around the pins holding the flyback transformer"""
[18:55:41] <SpeedEvil> With electrolytics being a fair amoutn of the others
[19:16:33] <CaptHindsight> howdy tjtr33
[19:36:11] <tjtr33> hiya CaptHindsight
[19:38:19] <tiwake> hmm
[19:39:00] <tjtr33> dinner, bye
[19:40:07] <CaptHindsight> does you recall some links shared in here in the past few months about polymer concrete lathes, was a high end research project, and I think from a University
[19:40:35] <tiwake> when I get home I could grep logs
[19:41:41] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: no biggie, but if you get bored before I search feel free
[19:47:07] <Computa_Barfious> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/4608-gibraltar-steel-fixture-clamps-wedges-328-2173.html
[19:47:29] <Computa_Barfious> I got these clamps , but I didn't have a allen wrench that fits them
[19:47:57] <Computa_Barfious> so i went to ace and checked for one that fits, and the one closest to its size slips in it
[19:48:23] <Computa_Barfious> they slip even in a fresh one so it doesn't seem to be damaged , plus i think they are hardened
[19:48:52] <CaptHindsight> they don't list the hex socket size
[19:48:57] <Computa_Barfious> its weird, all the measurements for them on encos's site are in imperial, but perhaps its metric
[19:49:04] <Wolf_Mill> standard or metric?
[19:49:15] <Computa_Barfious> yeah its weird, the listing doesn't say the size
[19:49:46] <Computa_Barfious> perhaps I will call enco tomarrow
[19:50:08] <Wolf_Mill> well most of my 1/2-20 button heads are 5/32 hex key
[19:50:12] <Computa_Barfious> maybe i can try to measure it with my calipers
[19:50:17] <Wolf_Mill> 1/4-20*
[19:50:47] <CaptHindsight> did they have hex keys in 32ndths?
[19:51:20] <Computa_Barfious> humm don't recall
[19:51:52] <Wolf_Mill> could be a pain in the ass half size metric too
[19:51:59] <CaptHindsight> lately I have trouble finding tools at ACE like hex keys in metric or 1/32's
[19:52:15] <CaptHindsight> 4.5mm
[19:52:35] <Computa_Barfious> they had a metric set, but it was in a wrapped package
[19:52:59] <Wolf_Mill> go get a full set from amazon
[19:53:04] <CaptHindsight> just stay away from the HF hex keys, I had some mixed in with my tools and they all became round keys
[19:53:33] <Computa_Barfious> and i was under the assumption that every other rmeasurement in being in imperial ment it was probably not metric
[19:54:08] <CaptHindsight> 11/64? :)
[19:54:54] <Wolf_Mill> eklind, bondrus, oe very few other brands i'll touch
[19:56:35] <zeeshan> you guys should see how many allen key sets i have
[19:56:40] <zeeshan> for some reason every tool haul i did
[19:56:50] <zeeshan> had a massive allen key collection
[19:56:53] <Wolf_Mill> i have 4 sets on the bench here lol
[19:56:55] <zeeshan> i have prolly 200lb of allen keys
[19:57:14] <zeeshan> i really like elkind
[19:57:48] <zeeshan> wera is my next fav
[19:58:10] <Wolf_Mill> http://amzn.com/B00012Y38W save your sanity and get a good set
[19:58:21] <Wolf_Mill> wera are nice but spendy
[19:58:40] <Wolf_Mill> or is that weha I'm thinking of
[19:59:11] <Wolf_Mill> wiha*
[19:59:12] <CaptHindsight> I only buy overpriced Snap-On since I'm a snob and think that they are superior :)
[19:59:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.granitek.co.uk/
[19:59:28] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WERA-Hex-Plus-9-Piece-Multi-Colour-Ball-End-Hex-Allen-Key-Set-Holder-073593-/370683909449
[19:59:31] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, was that one?
[20:00:33] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: no but thanks, I just wanted to see what metal components they used
[20:00:41] <CaptHindsight> I think there was a video as well
[20:00:54] <CaptHindsight> I can blend all my own concretes and resins
[20:01:33] <Tom_itx> it would be harder to search for the video
[20:01:44] <Tom_itx> from the logs anyway
[20:02:17] <CaptHindsight> I can picture the light colored concrete and separate bed and headstock
[20:02:30] <CaptHindsight> wasn't very big
[20:02:59] <CaptHindsight> no biggie
[20:04:13] <Wolf_Mill> another puzzle peice done :) http://i.imgur.com/GDcbOpX.jpg
[20:07:11] <CaptHindsight> was just thinking about new ways to cast while keeping as much as possible square
[20:15:00] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Counterweight?
[20:15:17] <Wolf_Mill> yup, dual gas springs in the column
[20:15:21] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I bet you need to read what the old cast iron foundry men learned on the hardening process and stresses built up, they did a lot to even out the cooling to keep stuff in the shape as required
[20:15:37] <malcom2073> For what?
[20:15:54] <malcom2073> That can't be for the mill is it?
[20:16:01] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, mill
[20:16:42] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/1hUDmu6.jpg stock, head isnt counter sprung at all
[20:18:36] <malcom2073> Ohhh I guess that would be a bit weighty then
[20:18:49] <malcom2073> Didn't realize the whole head could moveup and down
[20:18:50] <malcom2073> kinda cool
[20:19:05] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, this may show some mixes.. not sure http://www.cnczone.com/forums/epoxy-granite/30155-epoxy-granite-machine-bases-polymer-concrete-frame.html
[20:19:28] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, quill only has 1 3/16" travel lol
[20:19:41] <malcom2073> Lol wow
[20:20:32] <furrywolf> my shoptask only has 3" total. it's quite annoying.
[20:21:12] <malcom2073> I wonder how much my mill has... may need a powered knee!
[20:21:18] <Wolf_Mill> running this thing is much more fun with the cnc hooked up, even if the Z isnt powered
[20:21:43] <Tom_itx> http://www.journalamme.org/papers_amme05/1415.pdf
[20:22:12] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: not looking for polymer formulas as I make them, I just wanted to see that lathe design
[20:22:44] <Tom_itx> ok, haven't found anything yet
[20:24:17] <malcom2073> CNC is amazingly fun in comparison to manual milling
[20:25:00] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, spotting the holes was so easy, just manually entering g code
[20:25:02] <CaptHindsight> http://pergatory.mit.edu/research/Cortesi/index.html wasn't this but it was similar
[20:27:31] <CaptHindsight> http://pergatory.mit.edu/research/preloadednuts.pdf easy enough to make
[20:29:41] <t12> hum
[20:30:01] <t12> lathe carriage shifts up and down +-.0005
[20:30:05] <t12> during cut
[20:30:14] <t12> perhaps drive screw is misaligned
[20:31:13] <Wolf_Mill> sounds like gibs loose as well
[20:32:59] <t12> yeah
[20:33:14] <t12> carriage gibs fully tightened and theres still some play, cant tighten them down enough to halt carriage
[20:33:27] <t12> assuming the reverse side geometry is a bit wrong
[20:33:32] <t12> might pull it off and adjust
[20:36:35] <Wolf_Mill> when I did my lathe last week both gib plates (C2 lathe) were broken in 3 places and worn to death
[20:37:40] <Wolf_Mill> like http://i.imgur.com/Ly9F51I.jpg (upside down pic)
[20:38:22] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_Jvk7s0qc check out this mill design, wish they had a wide shot
[20:40:18] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kca6tldLq6E me want to have now
[20:41:48] <Wolf_Mill> wow, quiet
[20:43:45] <t12> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=canVhJAZjiA
[20:43:50] <t12> thats a hell of a boring operation
[20:44:47] <PetefromTn_> looks like a horizontal boring machine.
[20:45:00] <PetefromTn_> some of those are quite massive and very old
[20:46:20] <t12> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0CfHFzW2Qk
[20:47:32] <CaptHindsight> inverse lathe, the part is stationery and the tool moves
[20:48:21] <CaptHindsight> or horizontal drill press with live tooling?
[20:49:58] <malcom2073> Man, those machines are nuts
[20:50:06] <malcom2073> Amazing, but nuts
[20:51:15] <CaptHindsight> World's Largest Multi-Axis CNC-Controlled Processing Center for Astro Optics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHHwdqTVo2w
[20:51:22] <t12> lol at 5:30
[20:51:27] <t12> who needs a toolchanger
[20:51:30] <t12> we have a spingle changer
[20:52:27] <t12> lol @ "complex customer service"
[20:52:32] <t12> translation failure tehre
[20:53:46] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a cable company :)
[20:54:34] <t12> seems like at that scale of machine
[20:54:38] <t12> having a model number is nearly pointless
[20:54:44] <t12> every machine is likely custom
[20:55:00] <t12> the mechanical world seems to have it much more together
[20:55:02] <t12> than the computer world
[20:55:04] <t12> by leaps and bounds
[20:55:27] <CaptHindsight> bragging rights "oh you only have the model 50K, not the 55K"
[20:55:36] <malcom2073> Mechanical is significantly simpler
[20:55:44] <malcom2073> Not easier, just simpler
[20:55:51] <t12> i dunno about that
[20:56:01] <t12> physical reality limits you alot
[20:56:09] <t12> abstract computer world you can just do whatever you want
[20:57:19] <t12> maybe its just because the cost of failure is so much higher
[20:57:20] <t12> with a machine
[20:57:28] <malcom2073> heh
[22:29:25] <Jymmm> I didn't realize, but I have spools in wht, blk, grn,red, purple 12ga THHN stranded wire
[23:00:50] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5200889122.html
[23:05:08] <Wolf_Mill> spinny thinger