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[00:07:27] <XXCoder> p type is unknown to me
[00:07:45] <XXCoder> I only know G M X,Y,Z, H and D
[00:07:51] <XXCoder> oh and T
[00:08:01] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, I took the P out of the G83 line and it loaded fine
[00:08:14] <XXCoder> lol
[00:08:27] <renesis> w00t new solidworks is happening
[00:08:31] <XXCoder> that look like censored version of took piss out of g83
[00:09:00] <Wolf_Mill> then figured out that I needed to zero the Z up first, then do tool touchoff, now the code is running (sim I have my stepper drivers off)
[00:09:29] <XXCoder> yeah it always need to know machine orgin first
[00:09:40] <XXCoder> then tool lenths then part coorditates
[00:10:38] <Wolf_Mill> at least I'm learning quick lol
[00:10:56] <XXCoder> nothing like actual machine yeah
[00:11:17] <Wolf_Mill> was the whole point of setting this machine up
[00:11:27] <Wolf_Mill> learn the cad/cam/control
[00:12:33] <XXCoder> awesome
[00:12:46] <XXCoder> man wonder whats happening with pink
[00:12:48] <XXCoder> been quiet
[00:13:35] <XXCoder> also wondering whats happening with that guy who used to be this channel expert basically
[00:13:38] <Wolf_Mill> hmm, watching this run on linuxcnc starting to wonder how much DOC I can get away wih
[00:13:50] <XXCoder> he retired and joined his country version of forest rangers
[00:13:54] <Wolf_Mill> this is sloooow
[00:15:05] <Wolf_Mill> maybe 0.25mm was a bit conservative
[00:15:34] <XXCoder> if your machine was cnc-ized regular mill it probably is
[00:15:39] <XXCoder> but then dunno
[00:15:47] <Wolf_Mill> being a x1 mini mill...
[00:16:17] <Wolf_Mill> on the plus side least I'm not cranking handles for all the cuts lol
[00:16:43] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:16:52] <XXCoder> well you can progrm a series of cuts on side
[00:17:02] <XXCoder> starting with .25 mm and increasing
[00:17:09] <XXCoder> like .25, .5, .75, 1 mm
[00:17:20] <XXCoder> have hand ready to press e-stop
[00:17:36] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, not a bad idea
[00:17:42] <XXCoder> try seek good cutting count, no, can't explain, being deaf lol
[00:17:51] <XXCoder> *sound
[00:18:12] <Wolf_Mill> well, I have manual machining exp so I'm not total noob at least
[00:18:16] <Wolf_Mill> just cnc noob
[00:18:24] <XXCoder> yeah assumed that
[00:18:30] <Wolf_Mill> 3d printer doesnt count
[00:18:31] <XXCoder> I started backwards
[00:18:55] <XXCoder> started cnc machining then router (2d) then manual, too bad I never completed that one
[00:19:28] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, I have half a router setup that I never build 7 years ago lol
[00:19:41] <XXCoder> whats zie
[00:19:43] <XXCoder> size
[00:20:02] <Wolf_Mill> was goign to do a 30"x30"
[00:20:07] <Wolf_Mill> cutting area
[00:20:16] <Wolf_Mill> or close to that
[00:20:28] <XXCoder> nice
[00:20:35] <Wolf_Mill> have 4 30" thk rails w/ trucks
[00:20:38] <XXCoder> my router is quite a lot smaller
[00:21:08] <XXCoder> 300mmx200mm something
[00:21:19] <XXCoder> foot by 2/3 foot roughly
[00:21:52] <Wolf_Mill> still bigger then my micro mill here lol
[00:22:32] <XXCoder> lol
[00:22:34] <Wolf_Mill> sad 7.5"x4" work area, and thats max, stuff gets really loose at the ends
[00:22:45] <XXCoder> though I bet it can work steel
[00:22:50] <XXCoder> mine dont think can do alum.
[00:22:58] <XXCoder> in least not till replace spindle
[00:24:01] <Wolf_Mill> when I was laying out this control panel the whole time I was eyeing the extended table kit for this mill lol
[00:25:00] <Wolf_Mill> would give me 330mm travel on the X and a 400mm table
[00:25:07] <XXCoder> nice
[00:27:21] <Wolf_Mill> need to pay off the crap I ordered on credit first lol, like the steppers and ER collet set :D
[00:27:53] <XXCoder> yeah my cnc budget is limited to 30 bucks a weekl
[00:29:27] <Wolf_Mill> worse is I know if I order the extended table and y axis set that I'll want to get ball screws for it right off
[00:30:14] <XXCoder> yeah better learn stuff first
[00:30:25] <XXCoder> cheaper to break it as is than break one with upgrades
[00:30:55] <Wolf_Mill> its not the breaking parts I'm worried about, just the cash outlay lol
[00:31:01] <XXCoder> lol
[00:31:11] <XXCoder> ultimately though
[00:31:18] <XXCoder> I want 4 feet by 8 feet router
[00:31:26] <XXCoder> cut whole sheet
[00:32:00] <Wolf_Mill> cause if I get the parts for the extended x/y I can use the machine the way it is now to do all the clearance machining to get the ball nuts to fit
[00:35:07] <Wolf_Mill> I need to learn the g-code for sure, like what controls the cutting depth
[02:14:37] <Deejay> moin
[02:15:19] <Wolf_Mill> morning
[03:43:48] <Wolf_Mill> well fuck
[04:01:55] <Valen> I'm probably not your type
[04:02:08] <Wolf_Mill> :P
[04:02:51] <Wolf_Mill> was going to turn a end on a ball screw, lathe wont match the pitch to indicate it
[05:22:15] <XXCoder> well it was decent nap :p still, finally semi-solid sleep after days
[05:25:09] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: figured that out?
[07:11:48] <SolarNRG> is it possible to carve a thread into borosillicate glass?
[07:12:05] <XXCoder> no idea
[07:12:08] <XXCoder> use scraps
[07:13:47] <SolarNRG> how do high temperature vacuum forge seals work?
[07:25:03] <Tom_itx> https://www.mfpseals.com/ss/96/as568-perfluoroelastomer-ffkm-o-rings.html?gclid=CIb0i42j08cCFQtFaQodop0I_Q
[07:26:31] <SolarNRG> what is this perfluoroelastomer ?
[07:26:36] <SolarNRG> I never heard of it before!
[07:27:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.hightemptools.com/faq.html
[07:29:16] <Tom_itx> https://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=8040542
[07:29:30] <Tom_itx> maybe you don't
[07:30:18] <Tom_itx> http://www.adamschittenden.com/Threaded%20connections
[07:30:28] <Tom_itx> all look moulded to me
[07:31:51] <Tom_itx> http://www.cidraprecisionservices.com/cnc-milling-drilling.html
[07:37:20] <ganzuul> Some copper alloys work as a seal also
[07:39:37] <ganzuul> For ultra-high vacuum they use oxygen free copper baked in hydrogen, with a 'knife edge' on that's it called... the flange
[07:39:54] <ganzuul> yeah, flange
[07:41:22] <ganzuul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_flange
[07:42:31] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: I spent quite some time researching this...
[07:43:09] <ganzuul> Should be trivial to turn both on a lathe.
[07:46:51] <SolarNRG> so we're talking a special thread basically
[07:47:07] <SolarNRG> not trapezoid, not standard nut and bolt, we're talking a precision cut
[07:47:19] <SolarNRG> this can't be done with tap and die
[07:48:01] <ganzuul> A flange and knife edge might be much simpler...
[07:50:19] <SolarNRG> uh oh baby's fallen asleep on my lap
[07:50:39] <Benjamin23> greetings all. I am wanting to upgrade the version of Mono on the latest LinuxCNC distro. Current MONO is .NET 4.0 and needs to be higher for a program I want to run
[07:51:10] <Benjamin23> what troubles, if any, am I going to have with LinuxCNC program suite?
[07:52:02] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: HAHA! Then you have to stay and listen!
[07:55:56] <SolarNRG> talk to me about vacuum engineering, im working with an old fridge compressor atm
[07:56:40] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: If you are coupling glass to metal and heating it up, the big problem is thermal expansion. There are metal grades which are matched to different glasses and ceramics, however.
[07:57:21] <SolarNRG> I didn't have any o rings, I snipped some old bicycle inner tube, wrapped it around and used those automotive screw clamps
[07:57:21] <ganzuul> I have one of those, and a scroll compressor from an AC unit too.
[07:57:31] <SolarNRG> is the ac unit compressor got more suck?
[07:57:33] <SolarNRG> has
[07:58:04] <ganzuul> These folks have a lot of experience with this stuff:
http://www.fusor.net/board/
[07:58:24] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: Yes it does.
[07:58:50] <SolarNRG> is it true if you put the output of one compressor and solder it to the input of another you get more total suck?
[07:58:58] <SolarNRG> or is that just an urban myth?
[07:59:54] <ganzuul> People keep doing it and calling it good. What you get is the ability to restart the compr. motor even under vacuum, and a deeper vacuum.
[08:00:42] <SolarNRG> why does my fridge compressor only switch on when it wants to not when i want it to? is it something to do with the relay?
[08:01:11] <ganzuul> Is it under load? Did you throw away the capacitor that came with it?
[08:01:34] <SolarNRG> no i just snipped the wires, unbolted it and cut the two copper pipes
[08:01:55] <ganzuul> Is the big capacitor on the wires still?
[08:02:22] <SolarNRG> i think its behind the black box with a metal clamp holding it in
[08:03:33] <ganzuul> If it has electric wires going into it, that's probably the one.
[08:03:45] <SolarNRG> shall i remove it?
[08:04:19] <ganzuul> Do you have an LCR meter? It might not be in good health.
[08:04:30] <SolarNRG> isk what that is sorry
[08:04:33] <SolarNRG> idk
[08:04:41] <SolarNRG> lcr meter?
[08:04:46] <SolarNRG> like a voltmeter?
[08:04:59] <ganzuul> Yeah. Measures capacitance, indictance, resistance.
[08:05:32] <ganzuul> You might have a multimeter/voltmeter which also does capacitance/ farads
[08:07:27] <SolarNRG> typically how much torr could I get out of a fridge compressor max vacuum and how much could I get for an ac compressor?
[08:09:21] <ganzuul> I can't remember, quite frankly. It's enough for DC sputtering. AC compressor is maybe 2x to 5x deeper vacuum, but there are not many useful applications for another few orders of magnitude.
[08:10:19] <ganzuul> Also, the hardest thing to remove from the vacuum chamber is the light molecules, like hydrogen
[08:10:56] <SolarNRG> is that why arc welding sheet stainless won't work because of air bubble trapped in the weld?
[08:11:27] <ganzuul> I have no experience of that, but I hope to learn.
[08:12:19] <ganzuul> Might be the grade of stainless which comes in sheet has poor weldability
[08:12:32] <SolarNRG> i generally use 316l
[08:12:44] <SolarNRG> they got loads of the stuff over at the shipyard
[08:12:46] <SolarNRG> a bit pricey mind
[08:13:27] <ganzuul> http://www.onlinemetals.com/productguides/stainlessguide.cfm
[08:15:59] <SolarNRG> I never even KNEW there were that many types of stainless, I knew of the 303, 304 and 316 obviously
[08:16:02] <SolarNRG> but nitronic 60!?
[08:16:58] <ganzuul> Then there are the 41xx series, and higher certs thereof
[08:17:25] <ganzuul> I was learning this yestarday
[08:17:37] <SolarNRG> you can't buy them from the shipyard that's for sure
[08:18:17] <SolarNRG> I mean what's wrong with fabricating a big 8mm thick 316l box?
[08:18:26] <ganzuul> Hmm... Maybe from the aerospace outfits.
[08:18:42] <SolarNRG> I mean the doors is going to be tricky unless I use some HUGE o rings like tomx suggested out of that TFE material
[08:19:02] <ganzuul> There is o-ring cord.
[08:19:07] <SolarNRG> ?
[08:19:23] <ganzuul> You cut the length you need and glue the ends together
[08:19:38] <SolarNRG> and what glue can survive that temperature?
[08:19:40] <SolarNRG> exactly
[08:19:53] <ganzuul> But I have not been able to ascertain how the glued bit holds together
[08:20:08] <ganzuul> Yet, they sell the cord for those high-temp rubbers
[08:20:39] <ganzuul> Some grades of silicone will stand up to temp of... 400C IIRC?
[08:20:46] <ganzuul> 200 is standard for silicone.
[08:20:57] <ganzuul> 75C for most other plastics.
[08:21:12] <ganzuul> Yes, if you boil most plastics, they degrade
[08:21:33] <SolarNRG> I got this platinum catalyst silicone that can handle about 280
[08:22:03] <SolarNRG> TBH I'm working with ceramics in a microwave at the moment, they handle heat nicely but can't deal with vacuum very well
[08:22:17] <ganzuul> mmh...
[08:22:56] <SolarNRG> caclium silicate "promat" is what I'm using, they use it in foundaries as a floor tiling material
[08:23:05] <SolarNRG> rated to 1600 deg c
[08:23:21] <SolarNRG> it can just about handle molten eutectic steel
[08:23:49] <SolarNRG> i don't know what happens when you go beyond its safety ratings
[08:24:46] <SolarNRG> hence why I want the magnetic coils cooled by single loop copper pipes with some sort of refrigerant gas cooling it in the inside
[08:25:10] <ganzuul> If the manufacturer sells a high-performance version of the stuff, it's very likely it's the same stuff you have but the datasheet costs several kilobucks.
[08:25:41] <SolarNRG> I mean reading that fusor.net they make like a massive sand pit and pour a HUGE tungsten/tantalum vat of molten stainless and pour it in, they make the chamber die cast
[08:25:54] <SolarNRG> you have to pay for datasheets?
[08:26:09] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPSQ9DDGWsI
[08:26:49] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: Yup
[08:28:34] <SolarNRG> polycarbonate has temperature limitations too, also in Scotland a plastic warehouse caught fire and loads of people were killed by the burning polycarbonate fumes, real nasty stuff same gas used to kill thousands in ww1
[08:28:37] <SolarNRG> phosgene gas
[08:29:08] <ganzuul> yeah, he talks abpu ceramics too
[08:29:11] <SolarNRG> paying for datasheets totally sucks! information should be free, just like what's in the TTIP agreement
[08:29:19] <SolarNRG> what about boron carbide?
[08:29:25] <SolarNRG> they use that in body armor
[08:29:53] <ganzuul> Silicon carbide is probably easier to get
[08:30:10] <SolarNRG> blade sharpening stone for instance
[08:30:15] <SolarNRG> hardware store
[08:30:31] <SolarNRG> that stuff is hard as u like
[08:30:54] <ganzuul> http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=silicon+carbide
[08:31:17] <ganzuul> The binder in those stones might be epoxy.
[08:31:30] <SolarNRG> epoxy hates heat too
[08:32:18] <ganzuul> By the way, not everybody has agreed to put a price on information. You can often get what you need from other sources.
[08:32:30] <SolarNRG> kickass torrents is not bad
[08:32:33] <ganzuul> For example patents and research articles.
[08:33:00] <SolarNRG> a lot of publications you still have to pay to download
[08:33:32] <ganzuul> Usually companies disconnect the terminology they use in their patents and in their marketing blurb
[08:34:24] <ganzuul> But by looking up the founder and the guy's doctoral thesis/publications you can find everything you need to find the patent.
[08:34:25] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: you're thinking of stockline plastics, and that was nothing to do with polycarbonate. It was leaking LPG under the plant
[08:34:36] <SolarNRG> yeah stockline up in maryhill
[08:34:45] <ganzuul> And in the patent they should be disclosing everything.
[08:35:34] <ganzuul> Also patents are good for something like 20 years
[08:35:40] <SolarNRG> then they expire
[08:35:52] <ganzuul> And then they are a public resource
[08:36:29] <ganzuul> Now standards organizations, however... They are evil.
[08:37:11] <SpeedEvil> Patents should never, ever be gettable for having a problem, and doing it in the obvious way. There should also be a hard limit on the fact that you should never, ever be able to get a patent if you spent less time doing the thing than writing out the patent and the whole process of a patent search and getting approval.
[08:37:41] <ganzuul> they will get a state involved with them instead of the ISO, and duplicate with minor modifications other standards, and demand money for their 'work'.
[08:37:43] <SpeedEvil> ^if a normal person could have come up with the idea in under
[08:38:38] <ganzuul> a "normal person" is a huge assumption though.
[08:39:14] <SpeedEvil> A person skilled in the art
[08:39:54] <SpeedEvil> The idea of patents was to protect the idea for a period to spread it, when it might otherwise be hidden.
[08:40:27] <SpeedEvil> If in reality, it can be reinvented with a few weeks effort - how does that make 17 years protection sane.
[08:41:18] <ganzuul> ACTUALLY
[08:41:35] <ganzuul> That was the carrot to undermine 'guilds'.
[08:41:47] <ganzuul> Those guilds hoarded information.
[08:41:58] <SolarNRG> what exactly are standards organizations?
[08:42:13] <SolarNRG> are they the ones that say you're not allowed to use inches anymore you have to use centimetres?
[08:42:23] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: IEEE, MPEG, ...
[08:42:50] <ganzuul> So patents is a lesser evil, because not only do you get to know what the latest invention is, you also get to own it as public property after a while.
[08:43:28] <SpeedEvil> Which makes sense for inventions where there is a good chance nobody would have invented it in 17 years time.
[08:43:48] <SolarNRG> institute of electronic and electrical engineers? mpotion picture expert group?
[08:43:52] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: yes
[08:43:55] <SolarNRG> what's so evil about them?
[08:44:17] <SolarNRG> I learned about them in uni but didn't think much of them at the time
[08:44:26] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: Ideally, they make sure that your metric and imperial are exactly the same as my 'metric' and 'imperial'.
[08:44:29] <SpeedEvil> many standards are always pay-for
[08:45:26] <SolarNRG> this dude in the video is talking about how a useful ceramic is being phased out and beign replaced by a more expensive, harder to machine ceramic, is this something to do with it?
[08:45:54] <ganzuul> SpeedEvil: The Reaction Engines patent for the pre-cooler dehumidifier is really interesting. I learned a lot from it and I can re-implement the principle.
[08:45:58] <SpeedEvil> there are several videos on the internet.
[08:46:05] <SpeedEvil> ganzuul: yes, that is an exception.
[08:46:19] <SolarNRG> ganzuul how the heck do they weld pipes that thin?
[08:46:32] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: you can easily weld coke cans
[08:46:40] <SpeedEvil> with common TIG equipment
[08:46:45] <SolarNRG> i struggle to weld anything thinner than about 3mm
[08:46:49] <SpeedEvil> to go finer may need LASER.
[08:47:34] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: That ceramic hasn't been phased out YET. You can get it from Japan.
[08:47:37] <SolarNRG> it's basically a super duper fridge and vacuum cleaner all in one
[08:48:43] <SolarNRG> I can't really do any electronic money transfer at the moment until the politicians here in Greece pull their fingers out of their asses, banks are up shit creek
[08:48:51] <ganzuul> This vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPSQ9DDGWsI
[08:49:16] <ganzuul> ooh :o
[08:49:24] <ganzuul> hmm
[08:49:37] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: Start making the ceramic!
[08:49:51] <ganzuul> Make a business. :D
[08:50:09] <SolarNRG> well i already got the k type thermocouple and the pid
[08:50:16] <SolarNRG> no reason i cant make a kiln
[08:51:44] <SolarNRG> if I vacuum degas molten ceramics, will there be less air in the material making them better for producign hard vacuum?
[08:53:03] <SolarNRG> i figure a lot of ceramics are very porous, i.e. lots of tiny air bubbles in them
[08:55:28] <SolarNRG> wow that dude even shows u how to make laser lenses
[09:01:23] <Sync_> SolarNRG: use macor
[09:06:58] <Sync_> you can also still buy mycalex
[09:10:38] <ganzuul> http://shop.wesgoduramic.com/macor-rod-form/3-4-diameter-rod/
[09:17:57] <SolarNRG> macor?
[09:18:23] <SolarNRG> woah up to 1000?
[09:22:02] <Sync_> hmm mycalex doesn't seem to be all complicated to make
[09:22:48] <ganzuul> oh?
[09:28:35] <Sync_> mix 60% ground mica with 40% boro powder and fire
[09:29:22] <ganzuul> huh
[09:29:44] <ganzuul> Well that's not very complicated.
[09:31:16] <ganzuul> I wish there was an alibaba.com for Europe.
[09:34:44] <SolarNRG> yes but then how would the customs and postal service tax you for your chinese imports?
[09:35:55] <Sync_> according to the unified import tax book of the EU
[09:35:55] <ganzuul> I have not once had to pay taxes for what I have ordered.
[09:36:38] <ganzuul> I try to not order above 20e at a time, but even when I do the Chinese tend to write that it's less than 20e
[09:36:59] <Sync_> that dos not help, depending on your customs office
[09:37:02] <ganzuul> That's the import tax limit here btw
[09:37:18] <Sync_> but eh, adding 19% is not too bad
[09:39:45] <SolarNRG> why can fridge compressors only suck so much?
[09:39:52] <SolarNRG> what are their limiting factors?
[09:40:13] <SolarNRG> is it because they are only single stage?
[09:40:42] <ganzuul> It might not be vacuum oil inside them.
[09:41:43] <ganzuul> I've been thinking about that moly grease tate AvE talked about. Maybe you could lube a vacuum compressor with that, and keep it 'dry'.
[09:41:55] <Sync_> SolarNRG: dead volume, leaky valves, outgassing, blowby
[09:42:12] <Sync_> a twostage rotary is the way to go
[09:42:44] <ganzuul> What was it... those oxygen concentrator pumps?
[09:43:19] <ganzuul> http://www.ebay.com/bhp/thomas-vacuum-pump
[09:43:27] <SolarNRG> sync, how can I reduce dead volume?
[09:44:25] <SolarNRG> What sort of shop would sell one of these over the counter?
[09:46:30] <Sync_> the thomas things are wobl pumps iirc
[09:47:12] <SolarNRG> I saw a youtube vid, these double stage vacuum pumps seem to be able to pull down to 30 inches of mercury
[09:47:22] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: They get used in oxygen concentrators. Can't remember who here talked about this... But those pumps are basically the toughest part of those concentrators
[09:47:50] <ganzuul> Maybe find out who sells concentrators locally, and hit them up?
[09:48:14] <ganzuul> It's people with breathing problems who use them.
[09:48:41] <SolarNRG> I have seen a vacuum pump for sale here at the big welding supply shop, but it's primary use is to suck out hydraulic fluid from diggers, jcbs and it's like 850 euros, a big machine
[09:48:52] <SolarNRG> you think that's what I need to pull a hard vacuum?
[09:49:47] <Sync_> just get a used 2stage
[09:49:50] <Sync_> they come cheap
[09:49:54] <SolarNRG> hard to find here
[09:50:00] <Sync_> you should not pay more than 150€ for one
[09:53:27] <SolarNRG> what sort of vacuum would one give me if it was all sealed nicely?
[09:53:49] <SolarNRG> I was told you won't get much more than about 270 torr out of a fridge compressor
[09:54:00] <ganzuul> Apparently producing tungsten carbide is easy...
[09:55:10] <ganzuul> And this is a lie: "Tungsten carbide is prepared by reaction of tungsten metal and carbon at 1400–2000 °C."
[09:56:03] <ganzuul> Other sources say you produce it by reacting tungsten ore with carbon, and you get the carbide directly
[09:56:23] <Sync_> SolarNRG: mine pull down to around 8x10^-4mbar
[09:57:53] <SolarNRG> what's that in torr?
[09:58:20] <Sync_> 0.000600049346 torr
[09:58:37] <SolarNRG> woah that's like almost nothing in there
[09:58:51] <Sync_> that's like garbage vacuum
[09:58:52] <SolarNRG> you could make REALLY big marshmallows with taht
[09:59:06] <SolarNRG> it's bloody better than my fridge compressor
[10:01:26] <ssi> morn
[10:02:24] <Sync_> well fridge compressors are not really made for use as vacuum pumps
[10:02:45] <Sync_> I like the XDS10/turbo combo
[10:02:51] <Sync_> quiet and oil free :)
[10:03:16] <Jymmm> SolarNRG: Easier in the mircowave for jumbo marshmellows =)
[10:05:19] <ganzuul> Sync_: fridge compressors are a bit cheaper...
[10:06:09] <SolarNRG> what happens if I put a marshmallow in an erlenmeyer flask with a vacuum pump on it and microwave it?
[10:06:15] <SolarNRG> will I get really really really big marshmallowS?
[10:06:23] <Sync_> sure ganzuul, but they will not generate the same vacuum
[10:06:29] <Sync_> so they are useless for applications that need it
[10:06:50] <ganzuul> Sync_: This is true... But I wonder about this scroll pump I have now.
[10:07:29] <Sync_> I got three xds10 scrolls here
[10:07:32] <ganzuul> http://www.lowener.se/e/photogallery/Service/scroll-vacuum-pump-XDS10.jpg
[10:07:36] <SolarNRG> Sync_, that pump is like 8 grand!
[10:07:51] <Sync_> so?
[10:08:13] <SolarNRG> I would have to starve and save up for 5 whole years to buy one of those
[10:08:19] <Jymmm> Sync_: So get me one too
[10:08:40] <Sync_> if you pay for shipping, sure
[10:08:50] <Sync_> but you need to invest around 300€ for the tip seal kit
[10:09:08] <Jymmm> Sync_: Just put it all on YOUR credit card
[10:09:47] <Sync_> no
[10:09:52] <ganzuul> Sync_: What makes it different from a pleeb scroll pump, like mine?
[10:10:04] <ganzuul> Aside from the oil-free bit.
[10:10:24] <Sync_> lower tolerances and coated side walls
[10:10:34] <ganzuul> Coated with what!
[10:11:06] <SolarNRG> you guys are lucky to be able to play with that sort of money
[10:11:10] <Sync_> friction modifiers
[10:11:14] <Sync_> I think it is teflon
[10:11:18] <Sync_> and the tip seal is PEEK
[10:11:18] <ganzuul> huh...
[10:11:31] <SolarNRG> isn't peek like the highest temp plastic?
[10:11:38] <SolarNRG> and its expensive
[10:13:18] <Jymmm> I thought Kapton was much higher
[10:13:31] <SolarNRG> no I think kapton tape can only handle 220 iirc
[10:14:04] <Jymmm> Kapton 452F
[10:14:17] <Jymmm> err sorry, 752F
[10:14:36] <Sync_> there are some irradiated plastics that go that high
[10:16:14] <Jymmm> as per wikipedia
[10:17:45] <CaptHindsight> is F a temperature?
[10:19:39] <ganzuul> 725F is 400C
[10:19:42] <SolarNRG> hmm perhaps its the adhesive on the kapton tape that can't handle the temp
[10:20:12] <ganzuul> But "400"C isn't implying great accuracy in measurement
[10:20:28] <ssi> 4e2C
[10:20:31] <ssi> +/- 1e2C
[10:21:18] <ganzuul> SolarNRG: When polymer adhesives won't work, brazing might.
[10:21:50] <SolarNRG> I heard about brazing from my welding course, but I forgot now what is brazing?
[10:22:01] <ssi> fancy soldering
[10:22:15] <Jymmm> SolarNRG: apply heat, moooosh together =)
[10:22:19] <ganzuul> You melt a copper alloy like bronze into cracks
[10:22:44] <ganzuul> Using flux to keep oxidation in check...
[10:22:47] <SolarNRG> oh so a bit like soldering but with a higher temp metal
[10:22:53] <ganzuul> yes
[10:22:59] <Sync_> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Brazing_and_soldering_processes_-_AWS_A3.0_2001.svg
[10:23:02] <SolarNRG> so it can be done with a propane torch
[10:23:05] <CaptHindsight> 400C is not a problem for some thermosets but I don't know where SolarNRG would get the components
[10:23:09] <ganzuul> 'hard soldering' is another term for it
[10:23:27] <Sync_> basically only the melting temp of your alloy is important
[10:24:03] <SolarNRG> most of the descent kit you can buy here is geared up towards the boats and ships
[10:24:56] <ganzuul> Come to think of it... could you use flux inside a vacuum forge to get out the oxygen your pump didn't get?
[10:25:26] <ganzuul> Similar to how vacuum tubes are made
[10:25:26] <SolarNRG> pass, wouldn't the temps inside melt the brazing alloy?
[10:25:33] <Sync_> yes ganzuul
[10:25:41] <Sync_> vacuum remelting is common
[10:30:02] <SolarNRG> how do you remove the flux afterwards?
[10:30:25] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: what's the actual problem? I was just reading 3hrs of backlog. Why do you want to use borosilicates?
[10:30:56] <SolarNRG> unlike glass it doesn't crack, and it would make a great window to the polywell so I can see what the hell is going on inside
[10:31:08] <SolarNRG> can u recommend a better transparent material than pyrex?
[10:31:38] <SolarNRG> cos I got a pyrex cooking lid I could use and if I brazed that to some stainless steel I could have an airtight door with a window on right?
[10:31:39] <ganzuul> oic
[10:31:46] <ganzuul> He wants to irradiate his face
[10:31:52] <ssi> I don't think you can braze borosilicate :P
[10:32:35] <SolarNRG> sandwich between two perfluoroelastomer giant o rings?
[10:32:42] <ssi> that sounds better
[10:33:01] <SolarNRG> what sort of temps can perfluorelastomer handle? if it burns does it release toxic hfl gas?
[10:33:16] <ganzuul> Yanno, strontium or lead glass can save you from some radiation. It's what's used in CRT moitors.
[10:33:31] <CaptHindsight> yes, the decomposition isn't nice
[10:33:41] <SolarNRG> I haven't seen a crt monitor in a long itme
[10:33:41] <SolarNRG> time
[10:33:49] <WalterN> heh
[10:33:58] <ssi> perfluoroelastomer's good to 615F
[10:33:59] <WalterN> today I get to take one apart and figure out why it does not work
[10:34:09] <ganzuul> Look around the trash bins in residential areas. People still throw out old TVs.
[10:34:20] <SolarNRG> high temp vacuum engineering is harder than it sounds
[10:34:20] <ssi> but apparently it's not good for containing uranium hexafluoride
[10:34:23] <ssi> so keep that in mind :P
[10:34:37] <SolarNRG> I'm not touching uf6
[10:34:41] <SolarNRG> no way
[10:34:43] <ssi> :)
[10:34:52] <SolarNRG> toxic AND radioactive
[10:34:56] <SolarNRG> really nasty shit
[10:35:14] <SolarNRG> but back in the 40's it was the only way to enrich uranium
[10:35:51] <ganzuul> Delicious yellowcake.
[10:37:21] <ganzuul> ssi: AFAIK, the thingy that makes things brazeable is wetting, and that is all about surface structure. Think lead window glass, like those church windows.
[10:37:35] <ssi> fair
[10:37:47] <SolarNRG> lead's getting harder to get hold of
[10:37:47] <ganzuul> But what can get messed up is the thermal expansion
[10:38:05] <SolarNRG> can that crack the glass?
[10:38:16] <SolarNRG> don't you have to weld it iteratively not linearly in that case
[10:38:26] <ssi> ganzuul: I know that glass, including borosilicate, can wet out and flow around tungsten
[10:38:29] <Sync_> SolarNRG: indeed it is
[10:38:32] <SolarNRG> like bottom right corner, top left corner, bottom left corner, topright corner
[10:38:38] <ssi> that's how vacuum tube electrode pinches work
[10:38:39] <Sync_> just buy a commercial viewport
[10:38:47] <Sync_> making your own is superbly annoying
[10:38:57] <SolarNRG> what shop would sell one?
[10:39:16] <SolarNRG> don't link me to a website that uses a credit card, I have no electronic cash
[10:40:14] <SolarNRG> I build shite out of scrap that's what I do
[10:41:16] <ganzuul> Recycled steel is also scrap
[10:42:14] <SolarNRG> mild, stainless, aluminium, brass, copper, brick, firebrick, wood, rubber, glass are easy enough to obtain
[10:42:20] <ganzuul> I'll try brazing bits of glass together when I get my brazing rods...
[10:42:23] <Sync_> lesker sells them, mdc, vacom, trinos
[10:42:35] <SolarNRG> as soon as you start talking boron hafnium strontium bla, I have no idea who has these things
[10:42:48] <Sync_> the major trouble is the expansion coefficients
[10:42:57] <ganzuul> Maybe a diamond bit can give the surface texture needed.
[10:43:17] <SolarNRG> i got a diamond angle grinder blade, cuts thru bricks easy enough, any good?
[10:43:43] <ganzuul> Diamon will cut just about anything
[10:43:52] <ganzuul> Might take a while.
[10:43:54] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: research borosilicate glass compositions, I can order them preblended in a wide range of hardness, CTE, Tg etc
[10:43:57] <Jymmm> except silly putty
[10:44:27] <Sync_> what is your goal SolarNRG
[10:44:41] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: your challenge is always trying to find the raw materials
[10:45:44] <Sync_> the challenge is more making the material combination work
[10:45:55] <Sync_> and doing the research for the manufacture
[10:45:58] <Sync_> which is the hard part
[10:46:18] <Sync_> which is why I'm saying buy real vacuum parts, they will actually work
[10:46:21] <Sync_> and save you money
[10:46:29] <Sync_> because you don't spend lots and lots failing
[10:46:46] <ganzuul> Sync_: The economy in Greece is funny right now.
[10:48:29] <Sync_> it sure is
[10:48:48] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: have any university friends that can help obtain materials?
[10:54:35] <SolarNRG> i dont' speak to anyone I used to know at uni anymore and friends aren't easy to come by these days, most of the people I used to hang out with either don't like me or I don't like them, I guess I became a bitter old hermit in my old age
[10:54:57] <SolarNRG> I was always rubbish at keeping friends anyway
[10:55:47] <ganzuul> ...doh
[10:55:48] <ganzuul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-to-metal_seal
[10:57:34] <ganzuul> Yanno, this vacuum tube and CRT technology shouldn't be allowed to go away
[11:00:52] <Sync_> why? most of it is outdated
[11:03:17] <ganzuul> Sync_: SiC semiconductors CAN replace most of it, that is true, but those are hard to fabricate with local resources alone.
[11:04:38] <Sync_> so are high performance electron tubes
[11:05:32] <CaptHindsight> say your spaceship crashes and you forgot to bring the portable semiconductor fab kit with and you need to fabricate a tube for a display or amplifier
[11:06:46] <Sync_> well, then hope you brought your rare earths, turbopumps and rotaries
[11:07:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight:
https://vimeo.com/47812871
[11:08:09] <ssi> CaptHindsight: that's one of my favorite games
[11:08:34] <ssi> "if I was stuck on a deserted planet, how long would it be before I could send an email"
[11:08:37] <ssi> haha
[11:09:24] <CaptHindsight> ssi: you'd probably get some spam before you send your first :)
[11:09:27] <ssi> :D
[11:29:59] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH8kkxZqzhE
[11:30:02] <ganzuul> shiny...
[11:36:12] <ssi> nice
[11:36:23] <ssi> I made a cheapy arc furnace out of firebrick and carbon gouging rods
[11:36:26] <ssi> worked ok but not awesome
[11:42:55] <ganzuul> AvE tried to do the same in a tub filled with argon.
[11:43:03] <ganzuul> Well, he used a welder.
[11:43:08] <ganzuul> Probably a cheap one.
[11:43:23] <ssi> I used a welder, but not a cheap one :P
[11:44:04] <ganzuul> Also, I think the argon doesn't displace the oxygen; it just becomes a gaseous solution
[11:46:17] <ganzuul> A gas seal might not need a lot of structural integrity in this application...
[12:26:36] <ganzuul> http://www.moores-glass.co.uk/Glass-seals/materials/
[12:26:41] <ganzuul> 425C
[12:29:10] <lair82> PCW you around?
[12:30:42] <ganzuul> !!
[12:30:47] <ganzuul> "Dumet is most commonly used in seals where lead-in wires pass through the glass bulb wall of standard household electric lamps (light bulbs) among other things."
[12:31:01] <ganzuul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernico
[12:32:11] <pcw_home> yeah for a bit
[12:32:44] <ganzuul> ...So one can potentially look at pretty cancer-causing high-voltage stuff with scraps gathered in a post-apocalyptic, zombie-infested, hopeless world like modern Greece.
[12:33:32] <CaptHindsight> Kovar sounds more like an alloy, Dumet sounds more like a piece of furniture, window decoration or bedding
[12:33:40] <lair82> pcw_home, quick question, to flash the ip on my second 7i80, is this command correct "mesaflash --device 7i80 --set-ip 10.10.10.10" ?
[12:34:07] <lair82> or does it need to say --set-ipaddress ?
[12:34:32] <pcw_home> if you just run mesaflash with no command line it will print some help info
[12:34:58] <lair82> aaahhh, yes I forgot, adding that to my notes now.
[12:35:13] <pcw_home> sorry thats mesaflash --help
[12:35:52] <ganzuul> Duvet is a kind sofa
[12:36:33] <ganzuul> nevermind, a cover
[12:37:26] <t12> lol
[12:37:32] <t12> dumet decorative pillow
[12:38:53] <pcw_home> looks like
[12:38:54] <pcw_home> mesaflash --device 7i80 --set 10.10.10.10
[12:38:56] <pcw_home> This assumes the 7I80 is jumpered for the default 192.168.1.121 IP address
[12:41:12] <pcw_home> so you will have to change the jumpering for EEPROM IP address after writing the 10.10.10.10 address
[12:44:13] <lair82> Do I flash the new IP before or after modifying the "/etc/network/interfaces" file?
[12:45:42] <lair82> This is the second one, but it took almost 80 hrs to accomplish this on my other one because the network adapter on the MB had the incorrect chip, so this isn't real clear to me as of yet.
[12:48:12] <ganzuul> Not a bad price.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ASTM-F15-Polish-surface-Kovar-4J29_60075255992.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.17.3vStvR&s=p
[12:48:38] <pcw_home> in any case you need to be able to access the card so the hosts network setup must include the cards IP address in its range
[12:49:53] <Sync_> doesn't matter
[12:57:55] <pcw_home> also if you have a relatively recent 7I80, its default EEPROM IP address is 10.10.10.10 anyway
[12:58:40] <lair82> Ok, so when I enter "mesaflash --device=7i80" it gives me "no 7i80 board found". I have the 7i80 plugged in to my NIC, and 5v going onto the connector.
[13:00:13] <lair82> I had to install a seperate NIC, this is the same MB that I had problems with earlier this year, so I intsalled the same NIC that worked for the first one.
[13:00:29] <pcw_home> is you network interface on the NIC configured?
[13:01:27] <pcw_home> and how are the 7I80s W1 and W2 set?
[13:01:59] <lair82> Yes, it should be, in the down position
[13:02:19] <pcw_home> mesaflash --device=7i80 ... with no ip address specifiec assumed 192.168.1.121 = W1,W2 down
[13:02:34] <lair82> Do i need to DL the latest mesaflash?
[13:02:54] <pcw_home> no
[13:03:18] <pcw_home> this has worked the same for 2 years or so
[13:04:51] <lair82> I plugged a network cable into the NIC and ran /sbin/ifconfig -a and it says the ipaddress for eth0 is 192.168.1.102
[13:05:22] <pcw_home> Isnt Eth0 the MB NIC?
[13:05:59] <lair82> I ran sudo dpkg --install r8168-dkms_8.037.00-1_all.deb when I plugged in the nic
[13:06:30] <pcw_home> but eth0 is probably the MB nic
[13:06:45] <lair82> It said I have a eth0, lo, and a wlan1. but I plugged the cable into the NIC, not the MB
[13:08:03] <pcw_home> wlan have an overlapping address range?
[13:08:13] <_methods> what's netstat -i give
[13:08:34] <lair82> no ip listed for wlan1
[13:10:37] <lair82> eth0, mru, lo, ru
[13:11:04] <_methods> and you have onboard and a nic installed?
[13:11:15] <lair82> eth0, and lo after I widened the window
[13:16:13] <pcw_home> can you pasetbin the results of /sbin/ifconfig -a
[13:16:30] <pcw_home> also do you have link lights?
[13:17:23] <lair82> yes, the ONboard has an atheros chip, so I plugged a TP-LINK TG-3468 in.
[13:17:47] <lair82> Yes, give me a minute,
[13:20:56] <lair82_> http://pastebin.com/6rjv4Nye
[13:22:53] <pcw_home> ok so what happens if you ping 192.168.1.121?
[13:24:23] <pcw_home> or arp -an
[13:27:38] <lair82> connect: Network is unreachable
[13:31:10] <lair82> got it, I changed the Ip in the interfaces file to 192.168.1.10, and it worked. I had 192.168.1.1
[13:31:33] <lair82> now the ip is updated as well.
[14:03:20] <lair82> pcw_home so what would be the proper IP to put in the interfaces file with the IP on the 7i80 set at 10.10.10.10?
[14:10:57] <PCW> 10.10.10.x where X is not 0,10, or 255
[14:10:59] <PCW> I use 10.10.10.1
[14:16:00] <Deejay> hehe, i use 127.0.0.1
[14:20:54] <lair82> I fouled something up, no coms withanything now, I tried going back to the default, with both w1 and w2 jumpers down and still nothing. How do I reset the card back to riginal with the jumpers?
[14:21:28] <PCW> cycle the power
[14:22:12] <PCW> the jumpers are only read at power up ( or when a reset command is issued )
[14:27:02] <lair82> ok, so i just got it to up date the ip back to 10.10.10.10, now i should pull the power to the card, move the jumper, plug the power back in, and then modify the interfaces file to 10.10.10.1 , and it should work?
[14:36:54] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, be down your way Oct 16-18
[14:56:10] <PCW> lair82: you only need to write the EEPROM IP address once, all other issues are probably network setup on host
[14:58:01] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop Oh nice man... sorry I was on the phone here LOL.. Where did you finally decide to stay?
[15:02:57] <ssi> JT-Shop: whatcha doing in knoxville?
[15:05:49] <JT-Shop> I'm not sure of the exact location but the cabin is somewhere in the wears valley
[15:06:02] <ssi> vacationing?
[15:06:05] <JT-Shop> volunteer cabin rentals
[15:06:21] <JT-Shop> yea, long weekend get away for me and the wife
[15:06:21] <PetefromTn_> okay nice that is very close to us here
[15:06:24] <ssi> nice
[15:06:39] <JT-Shop> kinda celebrating my birthday too
[15:07:02] <PetefromTn_> wears valley is pretty nice and as I said before you are close to Gatlinburgh, Pigeon Forge, and Townsend/ GSMNP
[15:16:59] <ganzuul> grats
[15:20:05] <JT-Shop> http://www.volunteercabinrentals.com/pigeon-forge-cabins/a_painted_pony/a_painted_pony.php
[15:20:32] <Deejay> nice pony
[15:21:01] <Deejay> hmm, hot tub, pool table :)
[15:22:18] <zeeshan> anyone know how you can transform a part in a cam software
[15:22:36] <ssi> you want your part to be more than meets the eye?!
[15:22:49] <zeeshan> like im trying to program my lathe so that i do a bunch of operations when the piece sticks out 2", and then i move the tool to a position and shift the part manually in the chuck by another 2"
[15:22:52] <zeeshan> so now there is 4" stick out
[15:22:59] <zeeshan> and id like to do machining on the remaining 2" now
[15:23:02] <ssi> that'd be a translate, not a transform
[15:23:14] <zeeshan> i dunno mastercam calls it geometry transform
[15:23:14] <ssi> and you're probably better off doing it using part offsets
[15:23:16] <zeeshan> but its not working
[15:23:50] <zeeshan> so have a g54 and a g44
[15:23:51] <zeeshan> er
[15:23:51] <zeeshan> g55
[15:24:16] <Roguish> zeeshan: in mastercam, like ssi said, use different offsets. g54, g55, g56, etc
[15:24:18] <zeeshan> g54 would be 2" away from the chuck for example
[15:24:23] <zeeshan> and g55 would be 4" away
[15:24:32] <zeeshan> but the thing is the geometry doesn't shift in the cam software
[15:24:46] <zeeshan> so it still thinks after the shifting of offsets
[15:24:49] <zeeshan> the part is inside the chuck..
[15:24:52] * Tom_itx thinks zeeshan is thinking backwards
[15:25:05] <Roguish> u have to define new working planes and origins.
[15:25:12] <ssi> you can touch off in g-code, and move your part offset by a relative amount
[15:25:17] <Tom_itx> you'd machine the first 2" at the chuck, move the part out 2" and machine the remaining 2" at the chuck
[15:25:39] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: thats what im sayin
[15:25:48] <ssi> for instance, you could chuck up a bar, touch off on the end, cut the part, and have the end of the program touch off at the new part location, so rerunning the program cuts 2" closer to the spindle
[15:25:49] <zeeshan> trying to do this in cam is not working out
[15:26:04] <Tom_itx> so move the remaining cuts 2" over in the profile
[15:26:10] <Tom_itx> it won't look right but it will work
[15:26:20] <zeeshan> yes i can offset the geomewtry manually
[15:26:28] <zeeshan> but i was wondering if there was a builtin function to handle this type of shifting
[15:26:30] <Tom_itx> put an op stop in it and move the material
[15:26:37] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[15:26:38] <zeeshan> so that it recognizes that it's already machined the old stuff
[15:26:48] <zeeshan> cause this is a very common thing on swiss turning machines..
[15:27:02] <zeeshan> or machines with sub spindles
[15:27:04] <Tom_itx> your post would need to be set up to handle it as well
[15:27:13] <Tom_itx> and it's probably set up to handle G54 only atm
[15:27:49] <Roguish> which version of MC are u using? X5 ?
[15:27:57] <Tom_itx> it's handled in smartcam with user defined variables iirc
[15:27:59] <zeeshan> x6 for solidworks
[15:28:20] <Tom_itx> i've never done that for a lathe in smartcam
[15:28:20] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i can change the work offsets for each operation
[15:28:49] <zeeshan> Roguish: im sure its similar..
[15:28:50] <Roguish> i don't do lathe work, only mill. i have modified the post in X5 to pretty much go from the desk to the mill.
[15:28:54] <Tom_itx> but when you set your tools you set them at the G54 distance
[15:29:25] <zeeshan> my tool offsets dont have any g54 influence on em
[15:29:33] <Tom_itx> mkay
[15:29:35] <zeeshan> they're all relative to the lathe center line
[15:29:38] <zeeshan> and lathe chuck
[15:29:51] <zeeshan> the g54 get set based on the part
[15:30:14] <Tom_itx> so all your geometry for G55 will be 2" further away from machine 0
[15:30:21] <zeeshan> so i could setup g54 by touching off the part's end and diameter.. and then move 2" away from it
[15:30:23] <zeeshan> and setup g55 there
[15:30:39] <Tom_itx> but in effect it will be cutting in the same place as the G54 was
[15:30:46] <Tom_itx> ... near the lathe chuck
[15:31:15] <Tom_itx> or are you actually cutting 4" from the chuck?
[15:31:36] <zeeshan> no
[15:31:51] <zeeshan> it'll snap the part off if i did that :P
[15:32:18] <Tom_itx> ok, it's a kludge but if you set your G54 4" and move your cutting geometry it will be right, then add an op stop and set your G55 2" shorter
[15:32:31] <Tom_itx> that way there would be no danger of your tools hitting the chuck
[15:33:06] <Tom_itx> set it up as if the part was already 4" long
[15:33:06] <zeeshan> i dunno how to do this in cam!
[15:33:15] <zeeshan> the geometry shifting..
[15:33:20] <zeeshan> it'll let me transform operations
[15:33:22] <zeeshan> but not geometry!
[15:33:27] <Tom_itx> just group it and move it
[15:33:46] <Tom_itx> and change the leadins
[15:34:08] <Tom_itx> it will cut air a bit but it will work
[15:34:14] <Tom_itx> how many are you making?
[15:34:37] <zeeshan> 5
[15:34:47] <Tom_itx> just move your z zero out 2"
[15:34:47] <zeeshan> i can do it in 2 different programs
[15:34:53] <zeeshan> and merge em together manually
[15:34:58] <zeeshan> but i really wanna learn how to do it right in the cam
[15:35:10] <zeeshan> internet sucks for this type of programming ;/
[15:35:12] <Tom_itx> do the first half 2" closer to the chuck than you currently have it
[15:35:38] <Tom_itx> there's probably a more elegant way to do it
[15:36:01] <Tom_itx> but i dunno if your work offsets are set to work in your post
[15:36:19] <Tom_itx> doesn't sound like they are
[15:36:27] <ssi> I wonder when my die filer castings will be here!
[15:36:35] <ssi> maybe today!
[15:38:41] <Tom_itx> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cad-cam/multiple-work-offsets-mastercam-v9-163950/
[15:38:43] <Tom_itx> zeeshan
[15:39:19] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i know how to offset
[15:39:24] <zeeshan> ive done this for multiple parts on the mill
[15:39:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.emastercam.com/board/topic/6396-setup-lathe-tool-offset-geometry-offset/
[15:39:32] <zeeshan> i dont know how to transform the geometry
[15:39:34] <Tom_itx> sry wrong link..
[15:39:43] <ssi> you're trying to do multiple parts in one operation, but not the SAME part?
[15:39:51] <zeeshan> ssi: same part
[15:39:55] <zeeshan> mvoed to antoher spot
[15:40:15] <Tom_itx> you could part it off and move the stock out by now
[15:40:22] <Tom_itx> you're only making 5 parts
[15:40:28] <ssi> yea I'd just do it by having the program retouchoff
[15:40:29] <zeeshan> its not about the 5 parts
[15:40:32] <zeeshan> its about learning how to do it right
[15:40:49] <Tom_itx> how to do it right for 5 parts is different than 10,000
[15:41:28] <Tom_itx> i swear you're gonna make me take this damn mastercam class here
[15:41:32] <ssi> lol
[15:41:52] <XXCoder> heh. I do want to learn mastercam so so pricy :P
[15:41:55] <XXCoder> *but
[15:46:46] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, in smartcam you would 'group', 'transform', 'copy' the geometry and enter the offset to copy it
[15:46:59] <Tom_itx> then reorder the cuts
[15:47:13] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: im thinking maybe they dont give this geometry offset that all these people are talking about
[15:47:24] <zeeshan> because they expect you to use solidworks' transform features
[15:47:43] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: im thinking of taking a mastercam class
[15:47:46] <zeeshan> but they're not advanced
[15:47:54] <zeeshan> they're for 3 axis mill and simple lathe ops
[15:48:04] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure how far they go here but they teach it
[15:48:08] <zeeshan> i wanna do stuff for 4-5 axis and mill-turn centers
[15:48:17] <zeeshan> that seems to be highly specialized classis
[15:48:22] <zeeshan> *classes that distrubutors offer
[15:48:24] <zeeshan> but they cost a LOT
[15:48:31] <zeeshan> like $5000 for a 3 week session
[15:48:33] <Tom_itx> well of course they do
[15:48:38] <Tom_itx> it's advanced
[15:48:53] <zeeshan> theyre really meant for companies to pay for em
[15:48:55] <zeeshan> not individuals..
[15:49:04] <Tom_itx> the first 2 first semester catia classes are $3500
[15:49:35] <zeeshan> jeez
[15:52:06] <zeeshan> im looking at a pdf tutorial of it
[15:52:11] <zeeshan> there is a thing called "lathe stock flip"
[15:52:18] <zeeshan> under misc ops. which i don't see anywhere!!!
[15:52:30] <zeeshan> i think it might not exist for mcam for sdworks
[15:52:40] <Tom_itx> maybe there are levels of lathe packages
[15:52:45] <Tom_itx> simple and advanced
[15:53:08] <Tom_itx> i've got the simple lathe package on mine
[15:53:16] <zeeshan> hmm
[15:54:40] <Tom_itx> http://watc.edu/machining-technology-tc/
[15:54:45] <Tom_itx> i think that's got mastercam in it
[15:55:17] <zeeshan> id specifically ask about 4 and 5 axis
[15:55:19] <zeeshan> if youre interested in that
[15:55:23] <zeeshan> msot courses dont offer that
[15:55:45] <Tom_itx> i could call and find out
[15:55:53] <Tom_itx> but i'm busy right now
[15:56:50] <Tom_itx> my kid is taking the catia part design & sketcher and assembly design first semester
[15:57:05] <zeeshan> just steal his course notes
[15:57:05] <zeeshan> :P
[15:57:11] <zeeshan> 2 4 1
[15:57:13] <Tom_itx> he's got the book
[15:57:18] <Tom_itx> and can keep it
[15:57:30] <Tom_itx> it's quite a bit like solidworks
[15:57:40] <ssi> it oughta be :P
[15:57:59] <ssi> it's all dassault now, isn't it?
[15:58:05] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:58:17] <Tom_itx> your sketch isn't separate from the model in catia
[15:58:23] <Tom_itx> as it is in solidworks
[15:58:29] <Tom_itx> you define restraints as you go
[15:58:34] <ssi> hm
[15:58:39] <zeeshan> its a full environment
[15:59:10] <Tom_itx> i almost signed up when he did
[15:59:15] <Tom_itx> just to learn it
[15:59:33] <Tom_itx> i'd rather take solidworks and mastercam though
[16:02:14] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsqSGbFbToA
[16:02:19] <zeeshan> yep i definitely dont have these options
[16:02:19] <zeeshan> lame
[16:03:09] <Tom_itx> you can still do it, just not as easy/elegant
[16:03:15] <zeeshan> yep
[16:04:55] <Tom_itx> do what i suggested by setting the tools at the 4" distance and move the first op geometry over 2"
[16:05:26] <Tom_itx> then program the 2nd op at the same location but add an OP stop inbetween moving the stock out 2"
[16:05:43] <Tom_itx> it will cut a bit more air but will work
[16:05:55] <zeeshan> yes
[16:05:57] <Tom_itx> unless you add a rapid point closer in
[16:06:52] <Tom_itx> you'll have to edit the gcode file manually to add the OP stop probably
[16:07:00] <zeeshan> you can do manual entries in the cam
[16:07:02] <Tom_itx> i can insert one in my cam
[16:07:09] <Tom_itx> do that then
[16:07:39] <Tom_itx> it won't look right in the cam but it will work
[16:13:02] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, that part flip feature might not work anyway because it will have 2" more material sticking out that the cad doesn't know about
[16:13:19] <Tom_itx> on tool changes it might hit the part
[16:16:33] * JT-Shop is making a mountain of chips today
[16:17:00] <zeeshan> jthornton: same here!
[16:17:06] <zeeshan> i have like 30lb of chips
[16:17:13] <zeeshan> :P
[16:17:22] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: nom
[16:17:29] <Tom_itx> just don't bury yourself in it
[16:17:36] * Wolf_ is making no chips :/
[16:17:49] <zeeshan> i think a cool experience is when you put this heavy ass stock
[16:17:54] <zeeshan> thats like 50lb on the mill table
[16:17:55] <Wolf_> damn pos lathe
[16:18:02] <zeeshan> and then you remove it, it weighs like 15 lb
[16:18:07] <zeeshan> its quite an experience lol
[16:18:10] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, lemme see the end result of your cad
[16:18:15] <XXCoder> put in will that you want to be buried in alum chins in grave lol
[16:18:19] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: will do
[16:18:27] <zeeshan> im just googling some info about mastercam for solidworks first :P
[16:18:59] <Sync_> zeeshan: motorsport parts are more impressive, I once had some suspension parts milled out of titanium
[16:19:17] <Sync_> from 3kg to under 500g :D
[16:20:00] <zeeshan> it messes with your brain
[16:20:35] <XXCoder> Ti?
[16:20:40] <Sync_> yes
[16:20:51] <XXCoder> Sync_: was asking zeeshan heh
[16:21:07] <Sync_> it needed to be 3d profiled which is why the initial weight was so high :/
[16:21:08] <zeeshan> no
[16:21:08] <zeeshan> steel
[16:21:16] <Sync_> lots of money in the chips
[16:21:43] <XXCoder> yeah Ti is generally expensive
[16:21:46] <MacGalempsy> hey guys, anyone use a touchprobe on their mill?
[16:21:56] <MacGalempsy> i am curious about digitizing
[16:22:44] <Sync_> yeah but you gotta pay to play :/
[16:24:30] <XXCoder> I'd test using Au then if confirmed Ti lol
[16:24:35] <XXCoder> less expensive scrap
[16:25:19] <XXCoder> sad that titanium is pretty common, but very hard to mine
[16:26:39] <rootB> wait
[16:26:44] <rootB> you can mine titanium?
[16:26:53] <XXCoder> not in raw form
[16:27:04] <SpeedEvil> you can't mine most stuff in raw form
[16:27:24] <ssi> can you melt and cast ti?
[16:27:32] <SpeedEvil> ssi: under vacuum
[16:27:36] <ssi> ah
[16:27:36] <XXCoder> indeed. aluminium used to be so rare that USA phillic form was capped in pure aluminium
[16:27:54] <XXCoder> there was expensive and posh aluminium teapot and such
[16:28:04] <XXCoder> then someone discovered cheap way to make alum
[16:28:06] <XXCoder> boom
[16:28:21] <XXCoder> alum used to be more pricy than gold!
[16:29:03] <rootB> interesting
[16:29:35] <XXCoder> Russia discovered cheaper way to make titanium so its slightly more common but still hard
[16:29:46] <XXCoder> someday there will be alum type discovery for titanium
[16:30:36] <Sync_> I like how the us bought the Ti for the sr71 from russia
[16:31:38] <ganzuul> wooah... boron steel is amazing
[16:33:20] <CaptHindsight> can't you just 3d print the titanium? :)
[16:33:31] <rootB> How much does a CNC router for titanium costs
[16:33:34] <rootB> i suppose 1 million?
[16:33:48] <PetefromTn_> wha?
[16:33:53] <CaptHindsight> nah
[16:34:11] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: sure if sealed with netual gas lol
[16:34:11] <CaptHindsight> rootB: I'll sell you mine for $900K
[16:34:21] <XXCoder> ti is much like Au
[16:34:44] <rootB> Damn, CaptHindsight
[16:34:54] <rootB> I live in Mexico and 900K is.... almost 10 million pesos
[16:34:57] <JT-Shop> lol danimal used and old BP knee mill to make titanium cogs
[16:35:15] <JT-Shop> cogswell cogs
[16:35:23] <PetefromTn_> not a CNC router? go figure ;)
[16:35:29] <Sync_> machining ti is not hard
[16:35:33] <ganzuul> ...Can't you just throw fresh inserts at Ti until it's all chips?
[16:35:55] <ganzuul> Compared to Ti. inserts are cheap.
[16:35:58] <Sync_> CaptHindsight: nasa has an electron beam Ti 3d printer
[16:35:59] <rootB> Right now I cna't do much stuff to my CNC
[16:36:03] <rootB> since i don't have the money.
[16:36:29] <rootB> nor the time, since Im studying for a cisco network technician certificate
[16:36:32] * furrywolf has that problem too
[16:36:46] <rootB> hope the money to fix it and make it work like a proper CNC router comes from it
[16:36:59] <Wolf_> always wondered why most people think Ti is super hard…
[16:37:31] <furrywolf> I've never cut ti, but I haven't heard of it being that hard to work with.
[16:37:31] <PCW> Is Titanium any more difficult than steel?
[16:37:56] <rootB> You guys are the most active CNC chatroom on freenode right?
[16:38:07] <furrywolf> ti is extremely strong for its weight... but it doesn't weigh much. :)
[16:38:11] <CaptHindsight> 900000 US Dollar equals 109,129,500.00 Japanese Yen, good thing you don't live in Japan
[16:38:36] <CaptHindsight> rootB: don't forget the BEST as well :)
[16:39:05] <CaptHindsight> we leave all the other CNC chatrooms in the dust
[16:39:08] <rootB> Yeah, someone here was telling me the other day that LinuxCNC powered machines need a special DAQ card.
[16:39:10] <ganzuul> Strength/weight chart:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength
[16:39:22] <rootB> and how regular PC's were pretty shitty when it came to real time data processing
[16:39:50] <ganzuul> Boron steel btw gets up to 2000MPa. And weirdly, it is low-alloy so it should be really cheap, like 4140.
[16:40:36] <Deejay> gn8
[16:40:51] <ganzuul> 15B22 and 38MnB5 are the grades of boron steel I know about so far...
[16:40:56] <ganzuul> nini dee
[16:42:16] <Sync_> hmm
[16:42:21] <Sync_> tata makes boron steels
[16:42:25] <rootB> That's why im mostly interested in making my own LinuxCNC rig on my CNC router
[16:42:29] <rootB> and i lost interest in MACH3
[16:42:31] <Roguish> PCW: titanium is not horribly difficult. elastic modulus is between aluminum and steel. can be high strength depending on alloys. u can't be shy when cutting, or foolish.
[16:42:36] <rootB> it seems that linuxCNC has more plugins than mach3
[16:44:41] <ganzuul> Sync_: Their grades seem to be focused on cost-effectiveness. Plough shares, explicitly mentioned.
[16:45:45] <Roguish> the dreamline has like $23,000,000 of Titanium. only about 1 in 40 pounds actually gets airborne.
[16:45:55] <Roguish> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-looks-pricey-titanium-bid-stem-787-losses-142611083.html;_ylt=AwrTcddaxeRVD2MA544nnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNDZ0aWFxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
[16:46:41] <Roguish> correction. about $17m
[16:46:41] <rootB> SO yeah, linuxcnc
[16:46:46] <rootB> YOu will see me here more frequently.
[16:46:48] <ganzuul> Concrete mixers... So probably ball mills too.
[16:47:06] <rootB> Until i have my own 200 dollar linuxCNC PC
[16:47:43] <ssi> 787 was a bad idea
[16:48:05] <ssi> airbus is a bad idea, and trying to compete with airbus by making planes that are as crappy as airbus is a bad idea
[16:49:06] <ganzuul> Competing with 747 is a bad idea too...
[16:49:08] <SpeedEvil> Plot the loss graphs over time.
[16:49:15] <SpeedEvil> They've fallen off a cliff
[16:49:17] <Roguish> rootB: check out the linuxcnc web, wiki, and forum for computer requirements.
[16:49:18] <SpeedEvil> (in a good way)
[16:50:29] <Sync_> pfft, all this ultrahigh strength steel bullshit in modern cars
[16:50:36] <rootB> Alright Roguish
[16:51:08] <Sync_> st35 does just fine
[16:56:23] <Wolf_> so, was going to turn the ball screw on the lathe this morning, turns out that my lathe doesn’t want to run a 5mm pitch on the auto feed…
[16:57:37] <zeeshan> PCW: harder than steel to machine
[16:57:54] <zeeshan> 1020 steel is like 1.5 J/mm^3 specific cutting energy
[16:58:04] <zeeshan> titanium alloys range from 3-5 J/mm^3
[16:58:20] <zeeshan> 6061 al is .96
[16:58:49] <ganzuul> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Top-Quality-50HRC-Boron-Steel-40MnB5_60217845637.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.17.Ox0NZ5
[16:59:44] <zeeshan> http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/WO2003022517A2/imgf000003_0001.png
[16:59:52] <zeeshan> higher the unit energy, lower the machinability
[17:00:07] <zeeshan> fak you stainless steel!!
[17:00:38] <ganzuul> zeeshan: awesome chart. thanks
[17:00:55] <zeeshan> np
[17:01:00] <zeeshan> looks like tungsten is a bitch to machine
[17:01:00] <zeeshan> :D
[17:01:13] <Tom_itx> constant feed
[17:01:20] <Tom_itx> or it will work harden
[17:01:25] <zeeshan> yea
[17:01:27] <zeeshan> all these fancy things
[17:01:28] <PCW> Tungsten is fibrous
[17:01:33] <zeeshan> like nickel, tungsten etc
[17:01:35] <zeeshan> need constant feed machining
[17:01:41] <zeeshan> thats what iwas doing wrong when machining the 304 flanges
[17:01:56] <zeeshan> on top of using no coolant..
[17:01:57] <PCW> looks like wood when you break it
[17:02:08] <zeeshan> lies PCW
[17:02:15] <zeeshan> i have 99.9% pure tungstens
[17:02:22] <zeeshan> when i snap em they snap clean :P
[17:02:37] <Tom_itx> aww crap i misread that as titanium :D
[17:02:45] <Tom_itx> yeah tungsten is a bitch to machine
[17:02:47] <furrywolf> what, no thorium? :P
[17:02:48] <Tom_itx> very brittle
[17:02:50] <PCW> Maybe depends on how its drawn
[17:02:56] <zeeshan> thats true
[17:03:06] <zeeshan> tig tungsten is prolly diff
[17:03:12] <Tom_itx> we had some probably 6 x 8 x 3" blocks to machine
[17:03:16] <Tom_itx> for wing ballast
[17:03:28] <Tom_itx> talk about heavy
[17:03:37] <PCW> I have a few bit from ICBMs
[17:03:53] <PCW> (start tracker counterweights)
[17:03:55] <Tom_itx> do they glow in the dark? :)
[17:04:04] <PCW> star tracker
[17:04:14] <Tom_itx> i had a friend that worked at one of those sites
[17:04:28] <furrywolf> I want a block of tungsten just for "here, hold this" jokes.
[17:04:28] <PCW> no just plain Tungsten
[17:04:50] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, i've got a small piece in the toolbox
[17:04:55] <ssi> furrywolf: we have a big chunk of DU for that purpose
[17:05:02] <ssi> it's about 75lb
[17:05:07] <ganzuul> jesus
[17:05:17] <furrywolf> that'd work too. :)
[17:05:25] <ssi> and my roommate can hold it in one hand at arms length and hand it to you :P
[17:05:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: whats a wing ballast
[17:05:54] <Tom_itx> airplane ballast to balance the plane
[17:05:56] <ssi> zeeshan: aileron counterweight probably. That's what our DU block is
[17:06:13] <zeeshan> you add weight?
[17:06:14] <ssi> I also have a tungsten bucking bar I use for riveting
[17:06:15] <zeeshan> to a plane?!
[17:06:16] <Tom_itx> ssi, i'm not sure what part these went in
[17:06:17] <ssi> LOVE my tungsten bar
[17:06:23] <Tom_itx> we made some from lead too
[17:06:28] <ssi> zeeshan: yea controls need to be counterbalanced
[17:06:33] <ssi> for flutter
[17:06:37] <zeeshan> ah
[17:06:46] <Tom_itx> all were wedge shape
[17:06:59] <Tom_itx> i think i still have the model for some of em
[17:07:00] <furrywolf> ssi: most impressive feat of carrying things I've seen was a guy picking up and carrying a toyota V6 with transmission and transfer case still attached.... probably a lot heavier than your DU block. :)
[17:07:05] <zeeshan> i should try machining a flat on the tig tungsten
[17:07:06] <ssi> probably
[17:07:06] <zeeshan> to see what happens
[17:07:15] <ssi> zeeshan: beware the dust
[17:07:24] <ssi> oh tig tungsten :P
[17:07:44] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: im sitting around fucking around with this stupid cam
[17:07:48] <Tom_itx> machine tungsten with tungsten carbide
[17:07:48] <zeeshan> try8ing to do a work around
[17:07:54] * furrywolf sends ssi a BeO magnetron to make dust from
[17:07:56] <ganzuul> furrywolf: Carrying stuff like that is impossible if you know how much it weights...
[17:08:02] <ssi> lol
[17:08:05] <zeeshan> i have come to a conclusion that mastercam for solidworks isn't as great as mastercam standalone
[17:08:11] <zeeshan> it's missing 30% of the features
[17:08:20] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, probably so
[17:08:24] <zeeshan> you'll definitely not be doing mill-turn with it
[17:08:27] <zeeshan> you can do 5 axis
[17:08:30] <zeeshan> but definitely not mill turn
[17:08:32] <furrywolf> ganzuul: ?
[17:08:57] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, i seldom use my lathe package
[17:09:03] <Tom_itx> i'd be pretty rusty with it
[17:09:04] <zeeshan> why
[17:09:06] <zeeshan> oh
[17:09:20] <Tom_itx> most of the parts we turned we MDI'd
[17:09:25] <furrywolf> ganzuul: I can assure from, from experience, I both know how much it weighs, and that it's possible for someone to carry it.
[17:09:25] <Tom_itx> then saved it
[17:09:37] <Tom_itx> quicker that way
[17:09:47] <ganzuul> furrywolf: And therefore you can not carry it.
[17:09:56] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i really like simulation
[17:10:01] <zeeshan> it really avoids guess work
[17:10:08] <zeeshan> you can see obvious tool crashes
[17:10:19] <zeeshan> the other day i accidently wrote g0 xy..
[17:10:22] <zeeshan> instead of g1..
[17:10:29] <Wolf_> so, any ideas how to center a ball screw in a 4jaw when you can’t follow the pitch with a DI
[17:10:33] <furrywolf> ganzuul: me and three other people were moving it along the ground. We'd each grab a corner, lug it a few feet, drop it, and rest. The neighbor of the guy we were buying it from walks over, and says "let me show you how it's done". He then squatted, picked the whole thing up, carried it over to our truck, and set it in the bed.
[17:10:33] <zeeshan> i went at 200 ipm into my aluminum work piece
[17:10:37] <zeeshan> suprisngly it cut it.
[17:10:52] <Tom_itx> it wouldn't have cut the vise
[17:10:57] <zeeshan> haha
[17:11:05] <ssi> Wolf_: use a tip on your DI big enough to cover two or more peaks
[17:11:35] <furrywolf> I was getting exhausted moving 1/4 of it on the ground, and he had no problem carrying it like a sack of flour...
[17:11:38] <ganzuul> furrywolf: It was hyperbole... but yeah sometimes carrying things alone is easier.
[17:11:56] <ssi> Wolf_: in a pinch I've held a feeler gauge between the indicator tip and the screw
[17:12:16] <Wolf_> I might have to try that
[17:12:23] <furrywolf> he was a big guy, looked like he could have been a prize wrestler in his younger years.
[17:12:31] <ganzuul> oic
[17:13:38] <furrywolf> kinda looked a bit like hulk hogan, actually. :P
[17:20:06] <ffurrywol> quick googling says the deadlift record is or was 1155lbs... a toyota tacoma v6, also by quick googling, 430lbs... figure 200lbs for tranny and t-case, and it was still less than half what would get him in the news. so I'm not quite sure why you'd claim it's impossible. lol
[17:20:48] <ssi> reading comprehension is in short supply
[17:23:37] <ganzuul> ffurrywol: It's a relative thing. Like if you hurt yourself doing some athletic thing, the fear of hurting yourself again will make you lose strength.
[17:40:13] <Wolf_> heh, over sight, guess I need to order a er32 collet wrench before the collet setup gets here
[17:41:48] <ganzuul> ER collets are awesome.
[17:42:22] <ganzuul> I think I'm SOOO smart for deciding they are the best thing ever for mini-lathes
[17:42:49] <ganzuul> Esp. the non-morse taper types
[17:42:54] <Wolf_> I keep hearing this
[17:43:57] <ganzuul> Wish I'd get some news from the things I've go going, so I can know if I can spend 1300e on a lathe or not...
[17:45:33] <Wolf_> my lathe has a mt3 taper, but thats not helpful if you are trying to turn long rod stock or screws
[17:45:37] <ganzuul> ~got going
[17:46:06] <ganzuul> MT3 taper is 20mm ID
[17:46:50] <ganzuul> Reminds me, should figure out how to mount ER collets on the other end of the spindle bore...
[17:49:47] <furrywolf> yay, progressive FINALLY called for the recorded interview they've been saying they want to do for two months and three claims people I've been through.
[17:55:52] <furrywolf> supposed to come look at my car wednesday and have someone call me about my back injury.
[18:21:01] <malcom2073> Insurance sucks :/
[18:36:17] <MacGalempsy> furrywolf: how is your injuries coming along?
[19:16:57] <Computer_barf> insurance is awsome, what sucks is that the state has regulated dynamic allocation of services out of existence, so you have to go with psuedo-insurance that sucks.
[19:20:58] <Computer_barf> malcom2073: ^
[19:21:41] <malcom2073> Potato Potahto
[19:23:22] <Computer_barf> Lets say a man walks up to you and tries to sell you a rotten apple
[19:23:37] <Computer_barf> and another man walks up and wants to sell you a fresh apple
[19:24:04] <Computer_barf> and then another man walks up to you, points a gun at you, and says that if you are going to buy an apple, you have to buy the rotten one
[19:24:49] <Computer_barf> I don't really consider it the variations to all be the same
[19:28:28] <Tom_itx> who's the one with the gun?
[19:31:04] <SolarNRG> everybody's got guns tom
[19:31:22] <SolarNRG> the question you should be asking yourself is who has the ammunition
[19:35:59] <Computer_barf> Tom_itx: the state
[19:36:40] <CaptHindsight> I would avoid that fruit stand from now on
[19:37:23] <CaptHindsight> file a complaint with the Dept of Agriculture
[19:37:25] <Computer_barf> the omnipresent fruit stand of best intentions
[19:37:29] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:37:36] <malcom2073> My point is your point has nothing to do with my point
[19:37:58] <CaptHindsight> is the moral of the story about avoiding bad apples?
[19:38:03] <malcom2073> When I say insurance sucks, I mean that the thing that I, and millions other (including furrywolf) have that is called "insurance", sucks :-P
[19:38:19] <Computer_barf> yes but why let a simple complaint go to waste when I can yet again pull a room full of cnc specialists into an antigovernment rant
[19:38:32] <malcom2073> Hehe
[19:38:34] <malcom2073> Touche!
[19:39:05] <renesis> can we talk about religions and corporations, too!?
[19:39:19] <CaptHindsight> religious corporations
[19:39:29] <malcom2073> corperate religions
[19:39:30] <Computer_barf> corporations are literal constructs of the state
[19:39:41] <malcom2073> Constructs, that are people
[19:39:47] <renesis> reverse that and you may be onto something
[19:39:54] <renesis> corporations are international
[19:39:57] <renesis> so is money
[19:40:10] <CaptHindsight> that point bad apples at you and try to take your guns
[19:40:11] <Computer_barf> well the people have to follow the contractual constructs, that are at their inception created by the state
[19:40:11] <renesis> corporate power exceeds that of the state
[19:40:19] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: +a
[19:40:20] <malcom2073> +1 even
[19:40:32] <renesis> but the state does it the way the money tells them
[19:40:46] <renesis> also the state recycles periodically due to politics
[19:40:56] <Computer_barf> corporate power , as we know them today, is dependent on the monpoly of force imposed by the state. Without that advantage they hold no other position than gaining wealth by serving others.
[19:41:00] <renesis> corporations, intelligence and the military dont have these issues
[19:41:49] <Computer_barf> as for religion, statism is literally a religion.
[19:42:11] <CaptHindsight> why is it so illegal to blow whistles when working for a guberment agency? Are they against all loud noises or just high pitched sounds?
[19:42:25] <Computer_barf> the is an omnipresent fictional diety that affords men powers that otherwise don't exist
[19:42:58] <CaptHindsight> angry man in the sky that spys on you?
[19:43:23] <Computer_barf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0
[19:43:40] <Computer_barf> larken rose does a good job outlining how statism is literally a religion
[19:44:11] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of the bad science forums on reddit
[19:44:16] <renesis> laws arent real
[19:44:24] <renesis> neither is ownership or borders
[19:44:38] <renesis> government is imaginary, pretend
[19:44:58] <Computer_barf> i consider property rights to be real, or intrinsic to life
[19:45:12] <Computer_barf> most animals exercise forms of property rights
[19:45:22] <renesis> maybe the right to possess something, but thats not the same as ownership
[19:45:35] <renesis> unless you just see ownership as an agreement
[19:46:03] <Computer_barf> depends on what you mean by ownership too
[19:46:09] <renesis> there is nothing physical that ties you to things you own
[19:46:32] <renesis> no force called ownership
[19:47:08] <Computer_barf> some believe in homesteading , or the act of having mixed ones labor with the land
[19:47:08] <renesis> government is a way for those in power to maintain anarchy
[19:47:36] <renesis> well then ants and gophers own the land
[19:47:47] <Computer_barf> some believe that the point in which you are no longer doing that to a property does it cease to be yours
[19:48:05] <Computer_barf> I don't think I quite believe that either
[19:48:22] <renesis> well that insinuates special inherent rights
[19:48:35] <Computer_barf> im trying to remember what kind of anarchism that was called, lysander spooner advocated it
[19:48:42] <renesis> which dont exist, we as people made up rights because it means we get less fucked
[19:48:49] <Computer_barf> yeah lysander spooner was a natural rights advocate
[19:49:06] <renesis> right thats some cult religion shit
[19:49:21] <renesis> which lends to your theory about gov and related documents being religious
[19:49:23] <Computer_barf> well although i know i can't logically prove natural rights, I deontologically accept them
[19:49:55] <Computer_barf> I don't extend the existence of rights into the form that the state asserts though
[19:50:12] <renesis> anarchy is a survival of the fittest situation, formal governments never actually work as theyre philosophically supposed to
[19:50:17] <Computer_barf> that if a group of people get together, and do some rituals, that they can grant rights they don't possess to a fictional entity.
[19:50:55] <renesis> were still anarchistic, its just those in power looking out for themselves have figured out its better if most everyone dont see that
[19:51:40] <renesis> i believe 'natural rights' are just a version of golden rule
[19:51:48] <Computer_barf> I agree with some of spooner's thoughts, and like his "constitution of no authority", and I agree with natural rights even though i know I can't logically prove their existence. I do believe though there is a good case to be made that all lifeforms practice them.
[19:51:59] <renesis> golden rule is something any organism with a group structure and decent memory come to over time
[19:52:09] <CaptHindsight> you still haven't explained why I need to go shopping for apples near gunmen
[19:52:14] <renesis> you cant eat your people because you get eaten
[19:52:29] <Computer_barf> well the golden rule makes sense for how the lense of life views existence, everything within the bubble, everything outside the bubble
[19:52:39] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: You live in america
[19:52:44] <malcom2073> you, by default, shop for apples near gunmen
[19:52:48] <renesis> its basic human interaction
[19:52:51] <malcom2073> Wait
[19:52:53] <malcom2073> do you?
[19:53:00] <Computer_barf> CaptHindsight: LOL. im going to assume you are joking.
[19:53:01] <renesis> dont kill people, because its not nice when people kill your friends
[19:53:22] <renesis> natural rights are just an extention of this
[19:53:31] <CaptHindsight> apples don't kill people, well unless you choke on one
[19:53:45] <Computer_barf> renesis: what you were saying before , about property being an unproven force
[19:53:50] <renesis> theyre pretty hard you can maybe give someone a concussion with an apple
[19:54:09] <renesis> property is an extension of, hey dont take my stuff and i wont take yours
[19:54:22] <Computer_barf> this reminds me of the common leftarchist "property is theft" response to the ancap position that "taxation is theft"
[19:54:24] <malcom2073> renesis: Why shouldn't I take your stuff? I'm bigger than you :P
[19:54:36] <renesis> because you sleep eventually
[19:54:45] <malcom2073> Good point. I should kill you when I take your stuff
[19:54:49] <Computer_barf> I favor the secondary position as taking possession of substance is inherent to life
[19:54:54] <renesis> right, but i have friends
[19:54:58] <renesis> one may even be big
[19:55:04] <Computer_barf> wereas, I see taxation as more secondary to simple existence.
[19:55:05] <renesis> anyway in the end, your mom is very sad
[19:55:07] <malcom2073> I have friends too. And thus war was born
[19:55:07] <malcom2073> :P
[19:55:51] <renesis> computer_barf: right but im not sure possession of and ownership are the same
[19:55:55] <cradek> dude! have you ever, like, just looked at your hand?
[19:56:00] <renesis> iownership is very absolute
[19:56:18] <renesis> while posession can be defined many ways, can be debated
[19:56:21] <malcom2073> cradek: duuuuuude
[19:56:23] <malcom2073> Where's your car?
[19:56:35] <Computer_barf> Mutualism , thats the word that I was looking for in regard to expiring homesteaded property
[19:57:30] <Computer_barf> I understand the desire for such a thing, but I can also understand how pissed you would be if you spent your whole life developing a property, only to come back from a vacation to discover people have taken possession of it.
[19:57:50] <renesis> anyway, golden rule is basically the only social constant, and were still and probably always will be anarchistic
[19:58:15] <Computer_barf> yeah , I agree that even amidst the state we live in an anarchy
[19:58:20] <renesis> it just got really, really complicated
[19:58:41] <Computer_barf> and that such comprises the majority of our interactional transactions
[19:58:45] <renesis> the state just formalizes the towards absolute power of those with power
[19:59:09] <Computer_barf> but that doesn't mean the state doesn't impose force and that I should just accept that.
[19:59:35] <Computer_barf> At this point I feel an obligation to ask something on topic
[19:59:40] <renesis> ha
[20:00:03] <Computer_barf> I have a small vise, that I put a workpiece in , and I faced it off
[20:00:34] <renesis> and then
[20:00:48] <Computer_barf> the upper right corner, and the lower left corner is thinner than the upper left corner and lower right corner
[20:01:03] <Computer_barf> the vise looks strait but
[20:01:16] <Computer_barf> i don't have devise to confirm that
[20:01:20] <renesis> measuring diagonal?
[20:01:43] <Computer_barf> the work was in the vise on top of parrellels and the vise was clean
[20:01:49] <Computer_barf> its not the nicest vise though
[20:01:56] <Computer_barf> and im just working with what I got here
[20:02:03] <renesis> so maybe it lifted?
[20:02:22] <Computer_barf> but im seeing about a millimeter off between these corners
[20:02:39] <Computer_barf> so im wondering, maybe this is my vise, maybe this is my machine
[20:02:44] <renesis> i usually hammer a bit with plastic hammer, and then try and make sure the friction in the parallel stays the same while machining
[20:03:19] <CaptHindsight> I have a Palmgren that when closed one of the parallels will consistently fall over
[20:04:20] <Computer_barf> one idea I had was to clamp down a piece on the bed , face it off, measure it and see if I am seeing the same variation, and that would mean its my mill
[20:04:35] <Computer_barf> and if its flat then Its probably how I am setting up the vise
[20:04:42] <renesis> yeah has to lift a bunch to do that, put parallel back and hammer, wiggle, check, hammer more
[20:05:42] <Computer_barf> its weird, I would think being off a millimeter over the course of 3 inches I would have seen visually the tilt
[20:05:54] <renesis> yeah that sounds like a good idea but it maybe doesnt do it the same at diff Z
[20:06:25] <renesis> if its all one pass, with like a flycutter or big endmill, maybe the colum needs to be trammed
[20:06:46] <renesis> but yeah kind of sounds like a bigger error than that
[20:07:01] <Computer_barf> yeah i was just typing about tram but was wondering if the tram would even cause this effect
[20:07:10] <Computer_barf> its a big endmill
[20:07:34] <renesis> it depends which way youre leaning, which way youre cutting
[20:07:54] <Computer_barf> im cutting on the x axis
[20:07:56] <renesis> if you take multiple passes, youll feel the step between passes
[20:08:22] <renesis> if its just one pass, there will be a tilt
[20:09:09] <renesis> if its load related, could act diff at diff places
[20:10:49] <renesis> maybe just check parallel z versus the spindle to make sure flat, then mount something and be sure there is no lift of the parallels and try again see if its better
[20:12:46] <renesis> if you move the vise or the work to the table, youre maybe just moving away from the spot the machine has issues
[20:12:57] <Computer_barf> ok i did a pass , by clamping it to the bed , gonna clean it up , take if off and measure it with the calipers
[20:13:14] <renesis> but if you keep the vise and manage something flat, you *know* the vise and machine are okay, just have to be careful at setup
[20:13:43] <Computer_barf> the small vise, its currently off the table , I will check those things when I put it back on , I want to first try to determine if its the machine or the vise
[20:16:40] <Computer_barf> yeah it came out flat
[20:18:29] <Computer_barf> I had the vise squared to the t-nut slots on the machine, so this might mean that the vise body itself doesn't necessarily align to the jaws
[20:21:15] <Computer_barf> so I come in here, I say something controversial , bunch of people reply , some arguments, some trolling the topic, some agree, some don't, I switch to a machining question and everyone disappears LOL
[20:21:51] <Computer_barf> well to be fair it didn't happen immediately
[20:24:40] <furrywolf> I left as soon as I saw the word "anarchy".
[20:32:29] <jdh> I have a boat gps with membrane buttons. One of the buttons looks fine, but it repeatedly fires
[20:32:37] <jdh> any suggestions for fix?
[20:32:53] <renesis> you think you can get it apart?
[20:33:36] <jdh> yes, but not the membrane
[20:34:05] <renesis> can you get it off the pcb? or just just an assembly with a cable hanging out?
[20:34:26] <jdh> the kb is attached to the front cover. the assembly has a cable
[20:34:54] <jdh> the kb/membrane part is sealed
[20:35:18] <renesis> if you think it might be moisture related, you can try to hit it with a heat gun at a distance
[20:35:23] <jdh> I bored a hole in the middle of it and squirted in some DeOxit(tm) Gold
[20:35:36] <SpeedEvil> jdh: how many buttons?
[20:35:52] <jdh> 8 + 4way
[20:36:28] <renesis> heh, deoxit is like the shady oil additive of the electronics world
[20:36:29] <jdh> http://www.eaglenav.com/upload/Eagle/Images/Products/IntelliMap_500c_front.jpg
[20:36:32] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ8kyC_bpHs I'm still trying to figure out what exactly that's doing. lol
[20:36:40] <renesis> the gold stuff is better, and its okay for switches
[20:37:08] <jdh> I have some underwater stuff that de-oxit works magic on
[20:37:35] <renesis> really its just bad for carbon pots
[20:37:57] <jdh> the device acts like teh power switch is being hit repeatedly. If I disconnect the kb cable, it is fine, you just can't do anything useful
[20:38:14] <renesis> but that seems to be what most people want to use it for, its fine for switches, itll take flux off a pcb
[20:38:51] <furrywolf> that has to be the most complicated movement I've seen on a lathe.
[20:38:53] <renesis> are the button tactile?
[20:39:03] <renesis> or its carbon pads, like squishy feeling
[20:39:53] <renesis> cabon pads you maybe need to clean it, if you bored another hole so the deoxit or alcohol can drain out, you might be in business
[20:40:14] <Valen> you can't get into the back of that?
[20:40:19] <jdh> carbon pads
[20:40:27] <renesis> how old is it?
[20:40:37] <jdh> dunno,pretty old
[20:40:42] <jdh> 6 or 8 years mayb
[20:40:49] <renesis> yeah totally likely its just a mess in there
[20:41:04] <jdh> looks clean. The back of the kb is clear plastic
[20:41:28] <renesis> not that messy, like carbon dust stuck on the pcb
[20:42:02] <renesis> which if you can open it up cleans up in a few seconds
[20:42:08] <SpeedEvil> Or you can just make a new board
[20:42:15] * furrywolf seems to be the only one to find that video interesting. oh well.
[20:42:17] <SpeedEvil> with switches
[20:42:22] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: it's interesting.
[20:42:24] <renesis> yeah
[20:43:17] <renesis> you could do something quick n dirty with perfoboard and light actuating tactiles, and hot glue the shit to the chassis behind the switch pads
[20:46:36] <renesis> jdh: you maybe want to consider just pulling it apart and rebuilding it
[20:47:04] <SpeedEvil> Or if it's not wanted right now - do it properly with a PCB cheap
[20:47:27] <renesis> single PCBs are expensive
[20:47:52] <renesis> thats why little mill is neat
[20:48:27] <jdh> http://i.imgur.com/fmla5bo.jpg
[20:53:17] <SpeedEvil> renesis: lol
[20:54:42] <SpeedEvil> https://www.seeedstudio.com/service/index.php?r=pcb
[20:58:58] <renesis> right and then wait
[21:00:45] <renesis> and its like $55 when you put in a 10x15 cm board
[21:01:23] <renesis> board house i usually use is like ~$80 setup cost, and unit costs is like cents for stuff this size
[21:03:29] <renesis> thats a pretty good price for 5x5 cm
[21:08:50] <SpeedEvil> But for 12 switches, even just gluing them down and point-point wiring works fine
[21:10:26] <renesis> you need something to glue them to so might as well perfboard
[21:10:48] <renesis> im a big fan of unclad perfboard mounted deadbug
[21:18:32] <Wolf_> I etch my own boards with toner transfer paper
[21:24:08] <renesis> i cut them on a taig
[21:24:55] <Tom_itx> i used to etch my own
[21:24:58] <Wolf_> this was before I had a mill
[21:25:09] <Wolf_> and I do double sided smd boards
[21:25:11] <Tom_itx> easier to let china do it for me
[21:25:18] <Tom_itx> i've done double sided
[21:25:58] <renesis> yeah double sided below .012 space/trace is mad drama to machine
[21:26:06] <Wolf_> yeah, next time I need boards, oshpark or something of the likes
[21:26:07] <renesis> plus you gotta lace the vias
[21:26:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/cont_rev1top.jpg
[21:26:27] <Tom_itx> that was the control for my toaster oven
[21:28:10] <Tom_itx> yeah laen is ok
[21:28:20] <Tom_itx> (oshpark)
[21:28:41] <Tom_itx> dude in #hackvanna has good deals
[21:28:45] <Tom_itx> mitch runs the channel
[21:33:44] <Wolf_> hand etched when I was still a electronics noob
http://i.imgur.com/Mwpc8i7.jpg
[21:37:49] <renesis> hand etching is hard
[21:38:08] <jdh> is that an ISM300F1 gps receiver?
[21:38:31] <Wolf_> might be, sirf3 gps
[21:38:52] <Wolf_> I forget how long ago that was, its a aprs tracker
[21:54:55] <Jymmm> Wolf_: that's a hellva callsign
[21:55:13] <Wolf_Mill> I really want to turn this ball screw down but part of me wants to wait for the er32 collet chuck
[21:55:54] <Wolf_Mill> yeah got lucky for a pretty neat call
[22:02:44] <tjtr33> some here have Shoptask 3-in-1 mills. the head is crazy sloppy
[22:02:58] <tjtr33> JMK redesigned his head but i saw this tonite
[22:03:12] <tjtr33> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=46&v=gcq1nRKmcSQ
[22:03:32] <tjtr33> it uses real rails to draw the stock spindle up and down.
[22:03:43] <tjtr33> not a shoptask but the idea could be adapted
[22:04:00] <Jymmm> to make t-nuts? lol
[22:04:29] <tjtr33> ?
[22:05:46] <tjtr33> ignore the application, look at the head re-design
[22:06:09] <tjtr33> thats a stock grizzly/china mill-drill
[22:08:17] <Jymmm> ah
[22:42:57] <zee-Lathe> god i hate this lathe!!!!
[22:43:06] <t12> lol
[22:43:11] <furrywolf> I'll take it off your hands free of charge if you ship it here.
[22:43:28] <zee-Lathe> you can have this royal piece of shit
[22:43:29] <zee-Lathe> for 2k
[22:43:43] <Tom_itx> it probably doesn't like you either
[22:43:55] <zee-Lathe> i really cant run any negative rake geometry on it
[22:43:58] <zee-Lathe> it whines like a little girl
[22:44:05] <zee-Lathe> what kind of bs is that
[22:44:09] <zee-Lathe> youre a 12x36 lathe
[22:44:10] <zee-Lathe> 1000lb
[22:44:16] <zee-Lathe> and you cant handle negative rake tools..
[22:45:19] * furrywolf has never made a cut with a negative rake tool
[22:45:25] <furrywolf> you want to cut the material, not smear it!
[22:45:29] <zee-Lathe> i wonder if its the stupid ass compound lside
[22:45:29] <zee-Lathe> slide
[22:45:37] <zee-Lathe> like when i move the machine with 100lb of force
[22:45:44] <zee-Lathe> it doesnt seem to do anything on the indicator..
[22:46:59] <zee-Lathe> im about to weld the compound sldie
[22:47:00] <zee-Lathe> permanently
[22:47:02] <zee-Lathe> so sick of it
[22:47:05] * zee-Lathe is done ranting
[22:48:02] <furrywolf> I'll trade you my Sherline if you pay shipping. :P
[22:48:21] <zee-Lathe> yes like a sherline is going to handle a negative rake tool
[22:48:24] <zee-Lathe> LET me get right on that!!
[22:48:33] <zee-Lathe> im sorry, im mad at this thing
[22:48:34] <Wolf_Mill> wanna trade zee-Lathe, I tried to do a 5mm pitch auto feed and I think I cracked a drive gear
[22:48:40] <zee-Lathe> ROFL
[22:48:49] <zee-Lathe> okay youre in a worse situation
[22:49:17] <Wolf_Mill> sadly that was without the carrage feed on lol
[22:52:10] <zee-Lathe> that is pretty funny dude
[22:52:15] <zee-Lathe> are the drive gears plastic?
[22:52:36] <furrywolf> chinese steel and plastic are very similar.
[22:52:42] <zee-Lathe> rofl
[22:52:42] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, c2/7x10 pos
[22:52:54] <SolarNRG> yeah both break easy
[22:53:27] <zee-Lathe> so i tried to do a 50 thou doc
[22:53:30] <zee-Lathe> on steel
[22:53:41] <zee-Lathe> and my quick change tool post rotates 0.1 degree
[22:53:50] <zee-Lathe> enough to leave a taper in the part
[22:53:51] <zee-Lathe> lovely!
[22:53:55] <t12> lol
[22:54:28] <zee-Lathe> but it seems to not do that with even a 100 thou cut
[22:54:34] <zee-Lathe> with ccmt (positive rake insert)
[22:54:36] <zee-Lathe> i dont get it.
[22:54:54] <t12> maybe qctp was tightened onto grit or a burr
[22:55:15] <zee-Lathe> im pretty anal on that stuff though
[22:55:23] <zee-Lathe> i air blow it, rag it , air blow it
[22:55:31] <zee-Lathe> then tighten
[22:55:38] <t12> chinese leprechaun
[22:55:50] <zee-Lathe> and i dont see embedded chips in the surfaces
[22:55:50] <furrywolf> the cutoff tool holder on my sherline kept rotating last time I used it. fucked up every part.
[22:55:57] <zee-Lathe> rofl
[22:56:18] <t12> i havent triecd steel on mine yet
[22:56:21] <t12> leveling feet came today got them in
[22:56:25] <t12> but need diffnt adjustybolts
[22:56:42] <zee-Lathe> al is no prob
[22:56:51] <zee-Lathe> i made a video about it
[22:56:55] <zee-Lathe> if youre interested
[22:57:03] <t12> uerl
[22:57:27] <zee-Lathe> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtuQcJ4prHE
[22:57:52] <zee-Lathe> im using a negative rake insert there also
[22:57:54] <zee-Lathe> vnmg 331
[23:32:08] <Wolf_Mill> what a pos, now it ate the keyway on the 80 tooth drive gear lol
[23:37:37] <zee-Lathe> rofl
[23:37:40] <zee-Lathe> pics!
[23:37:45] <zee-Lathe> i got the lathe working correctly again
[23:37:54] <zee-Lathe> new insert helpde
[23:38:14] <zee-Lathe> plus i swapped material to aluminum
[23:38:21] <Wolf_Mill> just spun the key inside the plastic gear
[23:38:33] <zee-Lathe> lol
[23:38:34] <Wolf_Mill> not even worth taking a pic of
[23:38:35] <zee-Lathe> thats not good!
[23:39:05] <Wolf_Mill> came half fucked up, seems the prior owner liked crashing the carrage
[23:40:20] <Wolf_Mill> there is a another 80 tooth thats split up the middle on one side and the bore was eaten by the key lol
[23:40:55] <t12> time for metal gears
[23:42:42] <Wolf_Mill> ouch, $209 for the full kit (all gears in the head)
[23:43:24] <t12> new lathe
[23:44:30] <Wolf_Mill> hmm really I only need 4 gears
[23:44:57] <Wolf_Mill> 5..
[23:47:23] <Wolf_Mill> hmm thats $77
[23:50:07] <Wolf_Mill> now to check sdp-si for gears lol
[23:57:40] <Wolf_Mill> nope, they dont have much helpful
