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[00:30:49] <CaptHindsight> the "official" spec is a ceiling way over 10 ft, the actual spec is classified
[00:31:40] <CaptHindsight> SR-71 ^^
[00:57:53] <archivist> Wolf_Mill, steppers are not wonderful at speed, the torque drops off a lot, if your psu is low voltage the inductance slows you a lot too
[00:58:43] <archivist> Wolf_Mill, is you have a resonance problem 1/4 and 1/8 step can be better
[00:58:50] <archivist> is/if
[00:59:49] <archivist> and, are the motor coils in parallel or series (for bipolar)
[01:30:58] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, also looking at some of the step timing
[01:31:48] <archivist> parallel the coils for best
[01:31:59] <Wolf_Mill> only 4 wire motors
[01:34:04] <Wolf_Mill> also noticed that the travel distance is off, a lot
[01:34:22] <Wolf_Mill> least in the stepconf axis test
[01:42:17] <archivist> drop your top speed to give your self some safety factor when the xy is loaded with work and cutting
[01:43:20] <Wolf_Mill> in the x axis test, set test area to 2inch + and I'm getting about 0.5 inch of travel
[02:12:21] <Deejay> moin
[02:16:44] <Wolf_Mill> morning
[02:17:13] <etvsteva> dobro jutro
[02:34:09] <Wolf_Mill> grr
[02:35:31] <Wolf_Mill> I know setting up a machine shouldnt be this hard, dro says I moved the bed 9.5inchs, really it moved 2...
[02:43:32] <kamran> hi all
[02:44:02] <Guest54707> after 8 years i am back on mirc
[02:53:05] <Wolf_Mill> I have to be missing something or got something wrong on this setup...
[02:55:23] <Guest54707> ah no one chat here
[02:55:32] <Guest54707> wolf what are you configuring ?
[02:57:00] <Wolf_Mill> Mill, 200step/rev, driver set to 800 micro step/rev, 20tpi lead, getting 2 inchs of travel with DRO in linuxcnc showing 9.5 inchs traveld
[03:03:56] <Guest54707> :)
[03:04:05] <Guest54707> open loop ?
[03:04:25] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, stepper
[03:04:58] <Wolf_Mill> its not slippage or missing steps cause it will return to start perfect and doing the same thing on both x/y
[03:06:36] <Wolf_Mill> I dont think i'm so braindead that I'm getting the settings that far off either, axis is set up at 200 rev, driver microstep 4, 1:1, 20 rev/in
[03:07:40] <Guest54707> you are good in configuration
[03:07:50] <Guest54707> can you tell me one thing ?
[03:08:09] <Guest54707> did EMC2 support double pulse frequency ?
[03:09:40] <Wolf_Mill> no idea
[03:11:01] <Guest54707> mach 3 not supported
[03:11:37] <Guest54707> i have close loop motors need any user interface that can support souble pulse
[03:16:11] <Wolf_Mill> heh... seems I needed to power cycle the drivers...
[03:18:47] <Wolf_Mill> the guys who might know that stuff went to bed a few hours ago (least the ones I know of)
[03:21:23] <Guest54707> where you from ?
[03:23:31] <Wolf_Mill> east coast usa
[03:23:51] <Wolf_Mill> 4am... wtf am I still doing up lol
[03:30:37] <Guest54707> :)
[03:38:55] <Wolf_Mill> I think i had the stepper driver set to 10,000 steps/rev lol
[03:47:57] <fenn> Wolf_Mill: i thought you said your leadscrews were 1 mm pitch
[03:48:43] <Wolf_Mill> nope, 20tpi on the mill
[03:49:39] <Wolf_Mill> my ballscrew is 5mm pitch
[03:54:20] <Wolf_Mill> oh, 1mm pitch on the cross and compound on the lathe
[04:35:04] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/j52xZPn.jpg =)
[06:09:30] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Get it figured out?
[06:10:02] <XXCoder> wow pink isnt here now
[06:10:09] <XXCoder> shes been here a lot for a bit
[06:10:32] <malcom2073> Yeah she wasn't here yesterday either I believe
[06:18:07] <Wolf_> yup
[06:18:29] <Wolf_> I got it figured out, needed to power cycle the drivers
[06:19:30] <Wolf_> looks good to me
http://i.imgur.com/j52xZPn.jpg think I need better tooling tho
[06:24:03] <XXCoder> lol
[06:24:08] <XXCoder> thats awesome
[06:24:16] <XXCoder> man I need to get mine running
[06:24:49] <Wolf_> :) now I need to lr2gcode…
[06:25:01] <Wolf_> lrn2 even...
[06:25:08] <XXCoder> was pencil spinning?
[06:25:15] <Wolf_> yeah
[06:25:20] <XXCoder> lol ok
[06:25:41] <Wolf_> dull also
[06:26:11] <Wolf_> tried a pen but it had too much deflection
[06:30:31] <Wolf_> I’m somewhat impressed by the machine now, really want to run some circles and see how it does
[06:30:46] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:30:51] <XXCoder> circle is most diffult
[06:30:57] <XXCoder> can end up oval
[06:31:06] <XXCoder> or have rough spots at "compass points"
[06:31:12] <Wolf_> good test of back lash
[06:31:13] <XXCoder> since it switches directions there
[06:38:06] <Wolf_> I need to learn gcode first :D
[06:38:28] <XXCoder> me too
[06:38:35] <XXCoder> I know basics but need to learn more
[06:46:40] <Wolf_> are these people crazy, $30 for 8x 8mm wide t-nuts…
[06:47:00] <XXCoder> thats why pink was making her own
[06:47:19] <XXCoder> someone I think it was furry, says certain weld nuts work fine
[06:47:40] <Wolf_> naa, thats for extrude, I’m talking mill hold down t nuts
[06:48:03] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[06:48:08] <XXCoder> can always mill em lol
[06:49:55] <Wolf_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tuff-T-nuts-Tslot-cleaner-Metric-DIN-M6-TSNDINM6L-A2Z-/221675481936?hash=item339ce36b50 ...
[06:50:23] <XXCoder> crazy
[06:50:38] <Wolf_> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2058&category=1062702310 ha
[06:55:07] <XXCoder> bit loq quality but if it works it works
[06:55:52] <XXCoder> cheap ones at aliexpress
[06:55:53] <Wolf_> almost $2 cheaper each....
[06:56:07] <Wolf_> oh yeah, didn’t check there
[06:56:09] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Sliding-Nut-Block-Slot-6-M4-M5-Roll-in-T-slot-Nut/32329136853.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.10.XavxZk
[06:56:33] <XXCoder> with that shipping price as well as buy a bunch though may be per part lol (still cheaper_)
[06:56:40] <Wolf_> those are extrude
[06:56:44] <Wolf_> for alum
[06:56:50] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-8-T-nuts-T-nut-block-T-slot-dedicated-nut-M16/32360103592.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.26.8VSh1q
[06:57:01] <XXCoder> free shipping but 4 buck each
[06:57:22] <Wolf_> yeah, the eBay usa made ones are $3.75
[06:57:28] <XXCoder> big factory
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Slot-Nuts-M8-Threads-Black-Oxide-Fit-Into-T-slots-In-Machine-Tool-Tables-Grade/32312455600.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.159.xSPLZ9
[06:58:03] <Wolf_> 47cents each
[06:58:09] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:58:12] <XXCoder> but 100 jeez
[06:58:52] <malcom2073> Haha, spinning pencil awesome
[06:58:59] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:59:06] <Wolf_> sell 70 of them on eBay for $2 + s/h each and come out $92.7 ahead
[06:59:12] <XXCoder> I bet with delebrate runout it can make awesome art
[06:59:35] <XXCoder> I do need some myself lol
[06:59:43] <Wolf_> amazingly there was almost no runout, just the tip being worn down
[07:00:27] <Wolf_> I did have it in a collet :D
[07:01:11] <XXCoder> not too sure what would fit mine
[07:02:23] <Wolf_> doh those are 10mm wide t-nuts in that 100 lot
[07:02:47] <XXCoder> too big or small?
[07:03:06] <Wolf_> to big, the x1 is 8mm wide slots
[07:04:03] <Wolf_> like these
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-Slot-Nuts-M6-Threads-Black-Oxide-Fit-Into-T-slots-In-Machine-Tool-Tables-Grade/32312451695.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.93.ssaFJ0
[07:05:22] <malcom2073> At least they're cheaper
[07:05:33] <Wolf_> yeah lol
[07:05:44] <XXCoder> indeed
[07:05:49] <XXCoder> well later
[07:05:56] <Wolf_> thats only $10 more then the set of 8 on ebay
[07:39:26] <Tom_itx> happy friday!
[07:39:55] <_methods> weeeeee
[07:40:58] <Wolf_> yay… but my weekends usually have more work then during the week…
[07:42:48] <malcom2073> Yay Friday!
[07:45:44] <Wolf_> zeeshan: different option of something to convert for your coolant tank
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4718 looks like a household water filter housing
[08:21:08] <malcom2073> Haha that does look exactly like that
[08:21:09] <spline> anyone use/have a tinyg? person at my local makerspace has it and was wondering how to run, I forget the name on github, software offline/standalone
[08:21:37] <malcom2073> spline: I've used it, haven't had much luck with it using their software though
[08:22:02] <spline> yeah, he said the same
[08:22:16] <malcom2073> I wound up actually writing my own heh
[08:22:21] <spline> a guy has a way to run it "offline" but it's basically setting up a proxy/fooling it to thinking its online
[08:22:23] <Wolf_> malcom2073: yeah, doesn’t look like a filter housing, it is a filter housing lol, really damn simple if you think about it too
[08:22:28] <spline> malcom2073: for the tinyg?
[08:22:46] <malcom2073> spline: Yeah to talk their protocol. I was using TinyG2 though
[08:23:03] <malcom2073> Wolf_: Haha yeah, It would work out of the box, just attach a pickup tube to the output and done
[08:23:04] <spline> so he asked me since I got how they setup charles or some proxy to keep it local, but he wasn't happy. he kinda just wants an appliance
[08:23:27] <spline> malcom2073: so the first gen is diff than the second on the protocol?
[08:23:38] <spline> (he said tinyg is propietary)
[08:23:39] <malcom2073> spline: That, I do not know
[08:23:45] <malcom2073> It's open source as far as I know
[08:23:47] <Wolf_> 1” npt pipe plug, drill and tap for air line and the pick up line, add the mister block at the other end and the air reg done
[08:24:06] <spline> malcom2073: what did you write for it? standalone interface?
[08:24:08] <malcom2073> Wolf_: well worth saving the $379 lol
[08:24:25] <malcom2073> spline: Yeah, a program I could feed a gcode file, and it spits it out over usb to the tinyg
[08:24:30] <spline> his intent is to basically park a pc at it so you can just load jobs from there, instead of having to hope everything else is working
[08:24:41] <spline> malcom2073: is what you did opensource?
[08:24:56] <Wolf_> paying like $300 of that for the little tube in a block with a needle valve
[08:25:10] <malcom2073> spline: I never released it, it's not *nearly* usable, I just did it as a test to see if TinyG2 would work for my application (which it would not)
[08:26:53] <malcom2073> My point was though: their software doesn't work heh
[08:27:28] <malcom2073> At least did not 6 months ago
[08:27:53] <malcom2073> You tried tgFX?
[08:29:06] <malcom2073> Oh, they discontinued tgFX for the pure web UI? Wow heh
[08:30:56] <malcom2073> I wouldn't bank on my program working anymore anyway, my stuff was based on tgFX. If they changed the protocol it wouldn't work anyway. I can pop the code up on github if you know c++/Qt and want to fiddle
[08:33:01] <spline> ah gotcha
[08:33:10] <spline> i'd have to ask if he did
[08:34:46] <malcom2073> tell them to replace it with grbl or linuxcnc :-D
[08:35:10] <spline> I asked on linuxcnc. the space has a sherline powered by it and he's not the biggest fan
[08:35:36] <malcom2073> Why not?
[08:36:09] <_methods> not like there's an option out there that's even close to linuxcnc
[08:36:11] <Wolf_> ^ yeah, why not…
[08:36:19] <_methods> besides buying a real fanuc setup
[08:36:25] <_methods> or siemens
[08:36:33] <_methods> mitsubishi
[08:36:45] <malcom2073> My biggest complaints with linuxcnc are pretty much solved by getting a decent pendant
[08:36:54] <_methods> but that's so far outside normal hobbyist range
[08:37:41] <Wolf_> I need to learn the coding for the pendant (gamepad) stuffs
[08:37:50] <_methods> i just use a usb numpad
[08:38:05] <malcom2073> I'm building my own pendant for mine
[08:38:19] <Wolf_> my rumble pad has like, 12 button on it
[08:38:36] <malcom2073> gonna be similar to the matsuura 500 we have at work
[08:38:50] <_methods> any programmable usbhid pad will let you make a custom pendant
[08:39:06] <malcom2073> It's not about *just* having extra input.
[08:39:14] <Wolf_> I know the mapping for the gamepad…
[08:39:28] <Wolf_> I just haven’t looked in to the code yet :P
[08:40:16] <Wolf_> I have a usb gamer keypad + 4way hat also
[08:40:24] <Wolf_> totally forgot about it lol
[08:42:12] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/XgBhOjG.jpg 12 buttons (if you count the analog stick press to click) + the 2 sticks and the hat switch
[08:42:51] <_methods> should work great
[08:42:56] <Wolf_> plus I count it as free cause I have had the thing well over 10 years
[08:43:33] <Wolf_> already have it hooked up for 3 speed jog + incremental mode
[08:44:44] <_methods> http://www.vice.com/read/the-cops-desperately-need-your-help-to-catch-the-portland-pooper-vgtrn-958
[08:44:50] <_methods> good ole portland
[08:44:54] <Wolf_> lol
[08:45:20] <_methods> keep it weird portland
[08:54:05] <Wolf_> oh, is there a simple breakdown of the g-codes somewhere with somewhat noob friendly formatting examples?
[08:57:25] <malcom2073> heh
[08:59:45] <_methods> http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/index.html
[09:00:00] <_methods> the guy that wrote isn't that smart
[09:00:07] <_methods> but it should get you started
[09:00:08] <_methods> lol
[09:00:18] <malcom2073> Bwahaha, jthornton ^^
[09:00:22] <_methods> heheh
[09:01:04] <lair82> membiblio, you around?
[09:01:08] <Wolf_> the quick reference guide is very concise, but with no knowledge of the formatting isn’t too helpful lol, most of it was over my head
[09:02:31] <_methods> JT-Shop's guide covers everything pretty much
[09:02:35] <_methods> including touching off parts
[09:02:55] <Wolf_> I have a idea of touch off already...
[09:03:09] <_methods> that's usually the toughest part for people to get
[09:03:14] <_methods> work offsets and tool offsets
[09:03:14] <Wolf_> I was trying to manually make the thing do a circle
[09:03:53] <_methods> once you understand work/tool offsets the rest is fairly basic
[09:04:04] <_methods> cutter compensation is usually another hurdle for beginners
[09:06:05] <membiblio> Hey lair82 how goes it all?
[09:07:26] <Wolf_> so what would the g-code be to run a 1” circle at the current tool location? don’t care which way it goes, just want a circle… lol
[09:08:58] <lair82> Oh, ya know, back to my problem child. I thought I had handled the machine that kept losing it's files. I replaced the power supply, and it ran fine for about 3 weeks, then yesterday it did the same little trick again, couldn't access the HDD. So I came back in here, I couldn't remember what you said to start with, then I just found it, reduce the swappiness. So I just printed out how to do that, and was heading back out there to fi
[09:09:18] <_methods> Wolf_: system in inches or mm?
[09:09:25] <Wolf_> inch
[09:09:49] <membiblio> lair82 - now that you can tail those files you need to do that from your office to see what is happening
[09:10:33] <_methods> http://pastebin.com/4cFdMHkD
[09:10:37] <Wolf_> its the formatting I don’t understand, if see whats in the code I can usually work backwards
[09:11:14] <lair82> Yep, I am going to reduce the swap first, then come back in and set up that tail. Be back in about 20 mins, going to reduce the swap value.
[09:11:19] <membiblio> lair82 - so tail /var/log/kern.log
[09:11:30] <membiblio> lair82 - hey wait just a second
[09:11:46] <lair82> ??
[09:11:51] <membiblio> lair82 - so go over everything you replaced?
[09:11:57] <membiblio> lair82 - memory?
[09:12:41] <lair82> I have replaced MB, PSU, HDD, Cables, no memory yet, but I have ran Memtest86, and that came back clean.
[09:12:46] <membiblio> lair82 - also when you restart - all of the files are there correct?
[09:13:38] <membiblio> lair82 - so don't change the swappiness because you did not do that to your other identical machines
[09:13:54] <membiblio> lair82 - but do tail your kernel file and perhaps syslog
[09:14:22] <membiblio> lair82 - am I right in assuming the other machines are almost identical except for the actual machine?
[09:14:33] <lair82> When I restart the pc, 90% of the time it starts back up fine, but there is on occasion sometimes, that after it messes up, and I try to restart the pc, it won't boot, it just goes to the bios screen for the MB.
[09:15:11] <membiblio> lair82 - yes - so swap the memory - only because that is the only thing you have not - and tail the files to see what is displayed *very important*
[09:15:29] <membiblio> lair82 - I mean very important for your sanity - so you know what is happening.
[09:16:17] <membiblio> lair82 - aok? - are you on board with that tact?
[09:16:19] <lair82> Yes, all identical MB's, and the processors are all AMD A4 series processors, 4020 mainly
[09:16:52] <Wolf_> dammit, why can’t I find one of my crappy 2mm lead holders
[09:16:57] <membiblio> lair82 - so change memory - tail, at least, kern.log in /var/log and see what it spits out
[09:17:27] <membiblio> lair82 - I would actually tail the file, run the machine, without changing memory to see what it shows when it fails. That is what I would do.
[09:17:53] <lair82> Yep, I will need to see if I have some memory sitting around. Then I will setup the tail. Give me 15-20 mins then I will have to have you refresh me on setting up the tail.
[09:17:57] <membiblio> lair82 - and you are doing that remotely so that after the failure occurs you can still see the log
[09:18:17] <lair82> Yep from my office desktop,
[09:18:21] <membiblio> lair82 - aok
[09:18:41] <lair82> I am already signed into the machine using putty on my office pc.
[09:18:59] <lair82> be back in a bit
[09:22:34] <lair82> And of course, I just walk out there and they are setting up a job in the machine, so I will have to wait on the memory.
[09:23:00] <ssi> morn
[09:23:15] <lair82> membiblio, I will setup the tail though, how do I start that?
[09:23:37] <membiblio> lair82 - so on your office machine ssh into the target then...
[09:23:49] <membiblio> lair82 - cd /var/log ...
[09:24:11] <membiblio> lair82 - tail -f /kern.log
[09:24:30] <membiblio> lair82 - and you will be watching messages from that machine scroll up the screen
[09:24:47] <membiblio> lair82 - hopefully you will see something interesting when the issue happens
[09:25:03] <membiblio> Wolf_ - do you need a file for a circle?
[09:28:00] <Wolf_> maybe… heading in to the shop now
[09:28:27] <lair82> do I need to to sudo?
[09:28:32] <membiblio> Wolf_ if you need it ask I made a circle and square one foot in diameter and converted to gcode to test machine
[09:28:50] <membiblio> lair82 - yes probably, it won't hurt on the tail command
[09:29:15] <membiblio> lair82 - is this a debian or ubuntu target?
[09:29:32] <lair82> Ubuntu
[09:29:46] <membiblio> lair82 - I have to walk out now to get to my customers. tty in about 1 hour
[09:31:51] <Wolf_Mill> one foot?
[09:32:18] <Wolf_Mill> this thing is only 4inch x 7 inch lol
[09:46:53] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: tiny mill is tiny!
[09:47:22] <Wolf_Mill> it is...
[09:47:34] <Wolf_Mill> 4.25" y, 7.75 x
[09:48:13] <Wolf_Mill> I just want a g-code of some circles to see how this thing does
[09:48:44] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill:
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/GCode-Circle.phtml
[09:48:46] <ssi> you can hand write simple trivial circles
[09:48:56] <_methods> i pasted a simple circle for him
[09:49:08] * Wolf_Mill is noob
[09:49:13] <Wolf_Mill> couldnt get it to work
[09:49:21] <_methods> what did it do?
[09:49:47] <Wolf_Mill> null missing after new line
[09:50:09] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: take _methods paste, and type it in MDI one line at a time
[09:50:20] <Wolf_Mill> oh
[09:50:21] <ssi> that'll demo the circle without having to have a complete properly formatted program
[09:50:45] <_methods> yeah i just gave you the code for a circle without anything else
[09:50:46] <_methods> sorry
[09:52:52] <Wolf_Mill> kicked back linear move on line0 would exceed joint 2's positive limit...
[09:53:36] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: jog the machine to the center of your travels, then touch off X and Y
[09:53:58] <ssi> jog the Z axis up at least an inch off the surface and touch of Z, so you can cut air safely
[09:54:18] <ssi> as part of this game you need to start learning how the different coordinate systems work :)
[09:54:58] <Wolf_Mill> oh, first command is telling z0.5... its at zero, cant go up
[09:55:21] <ssi> can't go up from zero in the machine frame
[09:55:35] <ssi> but the typical use is to jog Z down til the tool touches the work, and then touch off Z
[09:55:47] <ssi> that way Z0 is the top surface of the work
[09:56:01] <ssi> then when you jog to Z0.5, the tool is 0.5 above the top of the work
[09:56:22] <tiwake> normally the top most part of the part
[09:56:23] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, z doesnt have stepper on it yet
[09:56:35] <ssi> so just take out the Z commands
[09:56:49] <ssi> tiwake: one step at a time :)
[09:57:31] <Wolf_Mill> and I just made a circle
[09:57:35] <tiwake> ssi: co-owner likes to set X,Y, and Z in weird locations, then change the program to match it up... and not use tool offsets
[09:57:47] <malcom2073> Yay circle!
[09:57:51] <Wolf_Mill> oddly its round
[09:58:18] <ssi> tiwake: lol
[09:58:24] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: You should repeat the pencil test with the circle, just for fun
[09:58:52] <tiwake> ...yeah
[09:59:03] <tiwake> so much facepalm
[09:59:06] <Wolf_Mill> so g02 I0.5 < radius F70 feed rate?
[09:59:24] <ssi> yes 70 is the feedrate
[09:59:47] <ssi> I isn't the radius exactly
[09:59:51] <ssi> arc commands are a bit more complex than that
[10:00:27] <malcom2073> I is radius of the path, *not* radius of the cut isn't it?
[10:00:28] <ssi> I and J define an offset in X and Y from the current position that describes the center of the arc
[10:00:28] <Wolf_Mill> yeah I was getting that feeling trying to read the quick ref guide
[10:00:38] <malcom2073> Ohh
[10:00:52] <ssi> so basically, you are currently at some position, say X0.5 Y0
[10:01:34] <ssi> and you want to cut an arc around some center point, say X0 Y0, around to another point, say X-0.5 Y0
[10:01:40] <ssi> that'd be a semicircle with radius 0.5
[10:01:56] <ssi> you'd describe that center point as I-0.5 J0, because it's relative to where you are now
[10:03:05] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/uRt1WRZ.jpg you mean test like this :D
[10:03:29] <ssi> nice job using graph paper so you can see eccentricity :)
[10:03:39] <malcom2073> NIce
[10:04:06] <Wolf_Mill> not bad for a beat to death x1
[10:06:48] <ssi> what's next
[10:11:51] <Wolf_Mill> next I need to figure out the cam package I'm using, pretty sure i'm on my own for that one lol some youtube time and I should be set
[10:11:59] <ssi> which package?
[10:12:29] <malcom2073> Is it possible to read a quadrature encoder (from a knob, not a servo) with the parallel port in linuxcnc?
[10:12:51] <ssi> malcom2073: sure
[10:13:00] <ssi> for a knob you don't even need to be able to sample it all that fast
[10:13:27] <malcom2073> yeah that's what I was figuring, don't think it's eat up too much thread time?
[10:13:35] <ssi> nah
[10:13:57] <ssi> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/encoder.9.html
[10:13:57] <malcom2073> Sweet, I'll fiddle with that next then after I get these servos mounted up and running
[10:14:00] <ssi> wire that bad boy up to your pins
[10:14:06] <malcom2073> Nice
[10:14:34] <malcom2073> I'm rapidly going to run out of pins. I have a PCI parallel port, that'd be ok for aux input, like buttons and switches, just not for motion?
[10:14:50] <ssi> oh yea it'll be no problem for UI stuff
[10:14:55] <malcom2073> Awesome
[10:15:02] <ssi> I don't know if it's unusable for motion or not, I've never used one
[10:15:08] <ssi> I go straight for the mesa these days :P
[10:15:10] <malcom2073> I've heard bad things around the forums/web
[10:15:21] <malcom2073> Yeah I intend to go mesa some point soon :-D
[10:19:14] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/B5uhafo.jpg that looks pretty spot on to me
[10:19:43] <malcom2073> Nice!
[10:20:01] <ssi> yep looks good
[10:20:17] <ssi> I assume you've used a dial indicator and calibrated your axis scales?
[10:20:27] <Wolf_Mill> nope
[10:20:36] <ssi> that'd be a good thing to check
[10:20:46] <ssi> have a 1" dial indicator?
[10:20:49] <Wolf_Mill> yup
[10:21:20] <malcom2073> So I'm going to get all this servo stuff done... and *still* have no way to actually lift the ram up and stick it back on the mill.
[10:21:21] <ssi> set it up, zero the axis, zero the indicator, jog the axis an inch, or a half inch, or some convenient number, and see how much it actually travels on the indicator
[10:21:45] <ssi> malcom2073: block & tackle?
[10:21:57] <malcom2073> Make sure the indicator is as perfectly square to perpendicular to the axis as you can
[10:22:11] <malcom2073> ssi: Nothing to hook it to
[10:22:18] <ssi> engine hoists are cheap
[10:22:19] <malcom2073> Heh not perpendicular
[10:22:20] <ssi> ish
[10:22:24] <malcom2073> I have an engine hoist
[10:22:33] <Wolf_Mill> where are you at malcom2073?
[10:22:34] <malcom2073> Unsure if I can get the height needed
[10:22:35] <ssi> have a pic of what you're trying to do?
[10:22:41] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: South central PA, about an hour north of b-more
[10:23:06] <Wolf_Mill> define south central, I'm 30mins from bmore
[10:23:23] <malcom2073> ssi:
http://mikesshop.net/millmove/image029.jpg
[10:23:31] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Shrewsbury, PA
[10:23:53] <malcom2073> ssi: My garage is a concrete box. It's got i-beams, but I can't put any weight on them
[10:23:59] <Wolf_Mill> about a hour up the road from me
[10:24:03] <ssi> gotcha
[10:24:12] <ssi> what do you suppose the ram weighs?
[10:24:27] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/2sUyYXt.jpg I gots what you need
[10:24:29] <malcom2073> ssi: We guestimated less than 800lbs
[10:24:35] <malcom2073> Probalby closer to 400-500
[10:24:43] <ssi> lol wolftruck to the rescue
[10:24:45] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Isn't that the truck you said didn't have tags though?
[10:25:11] <Wolf_Mill> no, thats the rollback truck, thats my hooklift truck in the pic
[10:25:15] <malcom2073> The other problem is, the mill is 20ft back into the garage, and can't be slid to the front :/
[10:25:24] <malcom2073> The motor won't clear the i-beam heh
[10:25:29] <malcom2073> (once it's attached)
[10:25:47] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: you have a dang rollback too? :'(
[10:25:49] <Wolf_Mill> maybe I should get the twinline wrecker boom on the back of my truck
[10:25:53] <malcom2073> Hmm... I wonder if I have room if I remove the motor and pwoer drawbar motor
[10:25:56] <ssi> I tried to buy a rollback last year
[10:26:00] <ssi> but it didn't work out
[10:26:39] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: If it would work to do this in the front of the garage, how much to get you up here to help? :-D I'll pay your food and fuel for sure
[10:26:53] <Wolf_Mill> I would rather have a hooklift truck vs a roll back, you can make a low loader rollback using one
[10:26:57] <ssi> I wish I had people close by :(
[10:27:34] <Wolf_Mill> foods and fuel would proably be enough :)
[10:28:00] <malcom2073> I just googled hooklift truck, I'm unsure if the arm would fit far enough in my garage :/
[10:28:04] <ssi> malcom2073: when are we going to get robuts?!
[10:28:07] <malcom2073> The ceiling is only 8ft
[10:28:11] <malcom2073> ssi: I'm still debating! :/
[10:28:14] <ssi> haha
[10:28:19] <malcom2073> I seriously don't have room lol
[10:28:25] <Wolf_Mill> it will fit
[10:28:25] <ssi> I don't either
[10:28:26] <ssi> but robut!
[10:28:35] <Wolf_Mill> mine is on a f550
[10:28:35] <malcom2073> robut erm!
[10:28:51] <malcom2073> ssi: There are stil 7, I got time lol
[10:28:54] <ssi> ERMAGERD! ROBUT ERMS ER STERLIN ER JERRRRRRRBS
[10:28:59] <malcom2073> Haha
[10:29:30] <malcom2073> Hmm... I have 35mm THK rails that are rated for a side load of 60ton. I wonder if I can mount them in my garage, stick that arm on them... and have a mobile crane
[10:29:38] <ssi> YES
[10:29:40] <ssi> hahah
[10:29:49] <ssi> god a rail mount robot like that would be amazing
[10:29:58] <malcom2073> The two 2600mm rails are only 30mm though
[10:30:03] <ssi> I should get 300' of railroad track
[10:30:11] <ssi> sink it in the concrete in my hangars
[10:30:12] <malcom2073> Railroad won't work, it'd tip over
[10:30:14] <malcom2073> you need rails that hold down
[10:30:17] <ssi> hm true
[10:30:27] <ssi> eh I dunno
[10:30:31] <malcom2073> Railroad and big ass C channel
[10:30:31] <Wolf_Mill> unless you make a gantry crain
[10:30:33] <ssi> the robot's 10x heavier than the payload
[10:30:35] <Wolf_Mill> crane*
[10:30:40] <malcom2073> Eh, true
[10:30:49] <ssi> I wasn't planning on bolting the bastard down
[10:30:52] <ssi> although I guess I probably should
[10:30:58] <malcom2073> It only has a payload of 150kg, but I'll bet with some creative re-structuring of the mechanism, you can get that higher
[10:31:06] <ssi> I don't need a ton of payload
[10:31:08] <malcom2073> Haha, I'd assume it owuld tip over during use othewise
[10:31:19] <ssi> yea I'm sure you can swing that thing fast enough to flip it right over
[10:31:30] <malcom2073> I'm sure fully extended it'll tip over
[10:31:31] <blib> what's a good software to load a STL and measure dimensions? preferably works on linux + windows
[10:31:34] <malcom2073> it's got a 3 meter reach
[10:32:16] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Let me do some measurements tonight, see if it's possible to slide the mill under the ibeam with the motor removed
[10:33:17] <Wolf_Mill> I know the truck will fit
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n541/wolfmetalfab/f550%20Stuff/0BB36D9E-D980-46EE-93A9-59A8B13323CB-5985-000004D8CC0CB601.jpg
[10:33:44] <malcom2073> Haha, my garage is 8ft, but the ibeams take a chunk out, as does the door
[10:34:06] <malcom2073> Where the hell is the front halfo f the truck there?
[10:34:08] <Wolf_Mill> my garage doors are 9x8 tall
[10:34:17] <Wolf_Mill> outside
[10:35:18] <Wolf_Mill> malcom2073:
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n541/wolfmetalfab/f550%20Stuff/7F0D48A9-8EBF-4D24-BF65-91DFEFB8CBE1-5985-000004D8E79D053F.jpg
[10:35:48] <malcom2073> Heh impressive, so yeah it may work :-P
[10:36:17] <Wolf_Mill> this shop is only 24' deep, the truck is about 25-26'
[10:36:38] <malcom2073> OH!
[10:36:38] <malcom2073> HAhahaa
[10:36:47] <malcom2073> I thought in that first picture, the white wall was a wall
[10:36:50] <malcom2073> not a closed garage door
[10:37:18] <Wolf_Mill> lol yeah had the door down
[10:37:29] <Wolf_Mill> I think the doors are 7' now that I think about it
[10:37:39] <malcom2073> They do look normal sized
[10:38:06] <Wolf_Mill> the other shop is 35x40
[10:38:12] <blib> how do you guys measure dimensions of a design on linux?
[10:38:35] <malcom2073> Tbh I'd never done much 3d stuff on linux, I use primarly windows :/
[10:38:55] <Wolf_Mill> doesnt axis show some dimensions?
[10:39:46] <blib> I thought this was #linuxcnc :)
[10:39:53] <blib> malcom2073: what do you use on windows?
[10:40:06] <malcom2073> It's linuxcnc, I use linux for my cnc machine :-P
[10:40:11] <malcom2073> I use Solidworks
[10:40:17] <Wolf_Mill> axis is one of the linuxcnc gui
[10:40:44] <malcom2073> Can freecad open STL's?
[10:40:48] <Wolf_Mill> solidworks is fun
[10:40:51] <malcom2073> I'd assume you could use that for measurements
[10:40:56] <blib> solidworks is expensive
[10:40:58] <malcom2073> It is fun, I'm going to miss it if I ever quit my job :(
[10:41:35] <blib> especially for linux cnc
[10:41:37] <blib> :)
[10:41:41] <malcom2073> yeah it's stupid expensive, doesn't make sense for an individual unfortunatly
[10:43:22] <Wolf_Mill> and software companys wonder why people pirate stuff
[10:44:05] <malcom2073> Eh, individuals pirating stuff don't matter much
[10:44:23] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, not like they are missing a sale from it
[10:44:39] <Wolf_Mill> its what, $3500 for a year?
[10:44:42] <malcom2073> right, the person woudln't use it otherwise. And, if they use it and like it, they're more likely to recommend it to a company to purchase
[10:44:51] <malcom2073> Don't know
[10:45:26] <Wolf_Mill> have you messed with solidcam any?
[10:46:00] <malcom2073> I've not, we don't have it
[10:46:18] <malcom2073> We send out machining jobs nowadays
[10:46:42] <Wolf_Mill> I have the link on my other computer, there is another intergraded cam for solidworks that is free
[10:47:12] <malcom2073> yeah, hsm or something?
[10:47:16] <Wolf_Mill> yeah that
[10:48:05] <malcom2073> Yeah I should try that sometime
[10:48:21] <malcom2073> Doesn't do 3d though
[10:53:37] <Wolf_Mill> hmm 0.5" movement off by 0.001
[10:55:34] <malcom2073> How much does it move if you lean lightly on the machine? :)
[10:55:43] <archivist> measuring error or backlash error or cheap ball screw
[10:55:47] <Wolf_Mill> 0.002 backlash
[10:56:09] <Wolf_Mill> moving forward then back to 0
[10:56:45] <archivist> there are a multitude of error sources
[10:57:22] <Wolf_Mill> backlash + crap china acme screw
[10:57:47] <Wolf_Mill> + made in china dial
[10:58:58] <archivist> me testing my cheap second hand screw
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[11:00:34] <Wolf_Mill> ok zeroed dial again, moved in 0.1 incremntal mode, at 0.2 dro, dial lost 0.001"
[11:01:23] <Wolf_Mill> hmm might be sawtooth pattern
[11:01:26] <archivist> keep stepping as far as you can to see if cyclic or dti mount error etc
[11:02:49] <Wolf_Mill> at 0.4 it closed half up (-0.0005) at 0.6 its back dead nuts on
[11:03:36] <Wolf_Mill> 0.8 back to -0.001
[11:03:47] <archivist> sounds a bit like a drunken thread
[11:04:08] <archivist> make sure the dti is linear
[11:04:46] <Wolf_Mill> its off a hair...
[11:05:00] <Wolf_Mill> well, couple deg
[11:05:00] <archivist> the fun of calibration, finding all the errors
[11:05:21] <Loetmichel> soo, go the 3d monitor... shutting down system to install ;)
[11:11:57] <Wolf_Mill> whats this show?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INhdy7bv-x0
[11:12:32] <malcom2073> That looks like backlash
[11:13:22] <Wolf_Mill> which is odd, think that would have shown up on the circles
[11:13:52] <malcom2073> You sure your dial indicator mount is solid?
[11:14:22] <Jymmm> as solid as an active lava field!
[11:15:04] <archivist> to have confidents to one thou one should be able to measure to tenths of a thou
[11:15:08] <_methods> you moving the z up and down there?
[11:15:21] <Wolf_Mill> well, the 0 is repetable in one direction, which would indicate backlash issue
[11:15:22] <malcom2073> Hahaha
https://youtu.be/iYl65NW1c94?t=97
[11:15:34] <Wolf_Mill> that was the x axis
[11:15:44] <_methods> ahh
[11:16:02] <Wolf_Mill> :)
[11:17:00] <Wolf_Mill> that was the old truck too, newer one
https://youtu.be/GyQc76BKqHw
[11:17:52] <malcom2073> Hauls ass pretty good
[11:18:06] <Wolf_Mill> 18v dewalt drill motor
[11:18:19] <malcom2073> It does sound like it haha
[11:26:26] <Jymmm> Now, THIS is a dewalt drill motor...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8WUHDxRy0
[11:26:56] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[11:27:48] <malcom2073> Bwahaha
[11:28:35] <Wolf_Mill> I wonder what that would do with a muilwakee fuel 18v in it
[11:28:49] <Jymmm> Wolf_: 36V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC3rB9f7DaU
[11:29:01] <Wolf_Mill> fuel is brushless
[11:29:28] <Wolf_Mill> I have the m12 one, it out does both of my m18 drills
[11:30:49] <Wolf_Mill> ok checked the y axis, it has a additve error is seems
[11:38:06] <Wolf_Mill> ok 0.005" short over 1"
[11:41:13] <Wolf_Mill> well.. 0.004" off, seems to be 0.001 of backlash in the y...
[11:42:41] <Wolf_Mill> which I kinda expected the backlash
[11:49:34] <Wolf_Mill> Guest54707: you were asking about doublestep right
[12:18:14] <Guest54707> any one know Linuxcnc support double pluse ??????????
[12:19:10] <pcw_home> not sure what you mean by double pulse
[12:20:16] <pcw_home> do you mean CW/CCW?
[12:20:26] <Guest54707> yes
[12:20:55] <pcw_home> Yes linuxcncs stepgen supports CW/CCW drives
[12:21:17] <Guest54707> or single pulse + single pulse
[12:22:42] <pcw_home> the linuxcnc stepgen manual calls that mode up/down mode
[12:23:05] <pcw_home> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[12:23:42] <Guest54707> its for close loop servo systems?
[12:25:12] <pcw_home> not sure that matters, though typically step/dir drives are open loop (loop closes at drive but position is not fed back to linuxcnc)
[12:25:19] <membiblio> linux cnc understands two separate pins called pulse and direction - what is double pulse?
[12:26:01] <Jymmm> Yeah, I've never heard that phrase befor eeither.
[12:26:21] <pcw_home> well stepgen can generate step/dir, up/down, quadrature and more
[12:26:35] <pcw_home> (read the manual page)
[12:26:35] <lair82> membiblio, I tried using the sudo command earlier, and it told me "lair82 is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported"
[12:27:05] <Jymmm> lair82: we know
[12:27:11] <pcw_home> uh oh lair82 is being reported
[12:27:21] <Jymmm> lair82: police are on their way
[12:27:31] <Jymmm> RUN lair82 RUN !!!
[12:28:08] <lair82> I hope so, I'm tired of working on these damn machines.... :
[12:28:13] <lair82> :)
[12:28:14] <membiblio> lair82 - so goto the /etc directory and add yourself to the file called sudoers
[12:28:29] <zeeshan> has anyone here worked as an independent contractor?
[12:28:32] <zeeshan> at a company
[12:28:41] <Jymmm> 1099, sure
[12:28:47] <membiblio> lair82 - you will have to sudo to edit that file too
[12:28:59] <zeeshan> hmm
[12:29:18] <membiblio> zeeshan - yes here too contractor
[12:29:33] <Jymmm> zeeshan: why do you ask?
[12:29:34] <zeeshan> if you work as one, should your hours listed
[12:29:39] <zeeshan> be stated on the contract?
[12:29:40] <lair82> should I " sudo gedit /sudoers"
[12:29:57] <membiblio> lair82 - yes /etc/sudoers
[12:30:03] <Jymmm> zeeshan: elaborate
[12:30:21] <zeeshan> contract says 4 month work period
[12:30:30] <renesis> zeeshan: yup
[12:30:31] <Jymmm> and?
[12:30:33] <zeeshan> but was verbally told if things go well, it will be extended or turn ful ltime
[12:30:39] <zeeshan> but it makes no mention of hours per day
[12:30:46] <zeeshan> it mentions hourly rate
[12:30:51] <Guest54707> if feedback not supported then servo is useless
[12:30:52] <Guest54707> ?
[12:30:59] <zeeshan> Guest54707: yes
[12:31:03] <membiblio> zeeshan : typically a normal day but you can dictate when you want to work
[12:31:20] <renesis> contract is diff everywhere
[12:31:25] <Jymmm> zeeshan: is this 1099 or W2 ?
[12:31:30] <Guest54707> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/139774-need-clarification-single-vs-double-pulse.html
[12:31:37] <renesis> i dont have a contract for durations, hours, or pay
[12:31:51] <zeeshan> neither
[12:31:57] <zeeshan> i dunno what it is :P
[12:32:08] <Jymmm> In the US it's one or the other
[12:32:09] <zeeshan> membiblio: im requesting before i agree
[12:32:11] <zeeshan> that the hours be stated
[12:32:29] <renesis> you can req anything you want
[12:32:39] <renesis> i put 8 hours a day for every day im there
[12:32:48] <renesis> sometimes im there 7:30
[12:32:54] <zeeshan> what if i want to work 18 hours
[12:32:55] <renesis> sometimes im there 10:00
[12:32:55] <zeeshan> ?
[12:33:00] <zeeshan> per day
[12:33:06] <renesis> then they have to agree
[12:33:13] <renesis> and you prob have to have resonable HR
[12:33:20] <renesis> you dont even have to state hours worked really
[12:33:32] <renesis> you could just invoice them a flat rate, there is no defined standard
[12:33:52] <renesis> i pretty much treat it as a salary job, and my boss doesnt have an issue with it
[12:33:55] <membiblio> lair82 - did that work for you - were you able to get your login into the sudoers file?
[12:33:57] <malcom2073> zeeshan: My contract states the average number of hours per week I will be allocating to work for them, since it varies up and down
[12:34:07] <Jymmm> zeeshan: If it says INDEPENDANT contractor, that sounds like 1099, which means there are no taxes taken out, which means no inurance of any kind either.
[12:34:16] <zeeshan> Jymmm: yes
[12:34:20] <malcom2073> It also states that any hours over 40 will be charged at time and a half :P
[12:34:29] <renesis> malcom2073: neat
[12:34:32] <Jymmm> zeeshan: What rate are they stating?
[12:34:55] <zeeshan> a lot :P
[12:35:00] <renesis> anyway if you wanty to work there, i would push for an employee position
[12:35:03] <zeeshan> more than i was expecting
[12:35:04] <malcom2073> Hmm, so they stated work, and rate, and length of contract?
[12:35:05] <renesis> even if it means less pay
[12:35:15] <zeeshan> yes malcom2073
[12:35:16] <zeeshan> exactly
[12:35:17] <malcom2073> So you can work 40 hours a week if you wanted, but it's still not "full time" since you're contract :)
[12:35:18] <zeeshan> but no hours
[12:35:28] <renesis> otherwise, you gotta be as specific as you need to be to feel youre treated fair
[12:35:47] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Well, when it's a 1099 contract, It's MUCH HIGHER rate than hourly
[12:35:48] <malcom2073> I'd verify with them what they expect out of you
[12:35:51] <zeeshan> ok
[12:36:15] <Jymmm> zeeshan: ...because you are going to be payin the taxes/expensises out of your pay
[12:36:21] <renesis> ya
[12:36:28] <zeeshan> im paying no taxes regardless
[12:36:35] <zeeshan> i have over 100k in tuition credits
[12:36:35] <zeeshan> :P
[12:36:39] <Jymmm> zeeshan: at LEAST 30% more
[12:36:39] <zeeshan> so im gonna be ok for this year
[12:37:26] <Jymmm> zeeshan: If you would normally work for $20/hour, a 1099 contract rate would be around 35$/hour for the same job
[12:37:40] <malcom2073> Even more if it's less than 40 hours a week
[12:37:46] <Jymmm> yeah
[12:37:51] <renesis> it depends how much job stability you want, heh
[12:37:58] <malcom2073> Even more if it's less than 6 months heh
[12:39:12] <Jymmm> zeeshan: and keeptrack of ALL of your expenses and receipts
[12:39:39] <Jymmm> fuel, materials, utilitis, cellphone, etc
[12:39:56] <zeeshan> yes
[12:40:00] <zeeshan> thats definitely a benefit
[12:40:10] <zeeshan> 20 / h r to 35/hr?
[12:40:12] <Jymmm> benefit?
[12:40:13] <zeeshan> thats a big jump
[12:40:17] <zeeshan> why such a big diff
[12:40:27] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Not for a 1099, as YOU are paying for expenses then
[12:40:34] <renesis> figure like 30% on taxes and benefits you have to pay now
[12:40:34] <zeeshan> what expenses?
[12:40:40] <renesis> thats not a huge jump
[12:40:41] <zeeshan> there are no expenses for this job ?
[12:40:52] <zeeshan> renesis: but thats something you pay regardless
[12:40:56] <zeeshan> even if youre working for someone else
[12:40:59] <zeeshan> the tax rate doesnt change
[12:41:03] <zeeshan> nor does the ei or cpp
[12:41:04] <renesis> they pay some of the taxes and benefits
[12:41:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: If you get hurt on the job, it's YOUR insurance that pays, not theirs
[12:41:14] <malcom2073> zeeshan: The tax rate doubles if you're 1099
[12:41:22] <renesis> they get better rates on things like insurance too
[12:41:23] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Heh, you've never done payroll I see
[12:41:29] <zeeshan> malcom2073: the tax rate is done on income?
[12:41:30] <renesis> also lots of places match you on retirement
[12:41:34] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Yep, it doubles.
[12:41:39] <zeeshan> why?
[12:41:40] <malcom2073> Self employment tax ftl :)
[12:41:47] <Jymmm> malcom2073: ++
[12:41:51] <renesis> and in cali youre supposed to pay estimated taxes
[12:42:03] <renesis> quarterly, or theres a small fine which everyone ends up paying
[12:42:05] <malcom2073> Federally you're supposed to pay estimated taxes
[12:42:10] <zeeshan> i dont know what youre talking about?
[12:42:14] <renesis> yeah probably
[12:42:16] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Talk to an accountant.
[12:42:17] <zeeshan> if youre making 20,000 k at a full time job
[12:42:23] <zeeshan> vs 20000 from your own employment
[12:42:25] <renesis> malcom2073: hes from canadia
[12:42:29] <malcom2073> Oh
[12:42:29] <zeeshan> the rax rate is the same
[12:42:34] <zeeshan> *tax
[12:42:44] <zeeshan> its how much you earn is what is taxed
[12:42:47] <malcom2073> Damn you canadians
[12:42:53] * malcom2073 goes and cries in a corner
[12:43:02] <renesis> are you considered your own business?
[12:43:24] <zeeshan> yes
[12:43:29] <Jymmm> zeeshan: No, it's INCOME less expenses = taxable amount
[12:43:37] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i know that
[12:43:41] <zeeshan> in both cases the expenses are the same.
[12:43:46] <Jymmm> zeeshan: When you have to pay for $1000/yr for liablility insurance
[12:43:47] <zeeshan> the only thing that's diff is insurance
[12:43:52] <lair82> membiblio, I have sudo privledges now, but now I get a fault trying to setup the tail, "tail: cannot open '/kern.log' for reading: No such file or directory" , "tail: no files remaining"
[12:44:10] <Jymmm> zeeshan: If you get hurt on a job, it's your insurance that covers you.
[12:44:18] <zeeshan> im not doing physical labor
[12:44:20] <zeeshan> im not getting hurt
[12:44:23] <zeeshan> its a desk job
[12:44:32] <renesis> dont you do material r&d?
[12:46:13] <renesis> if youre driving a mouse all day theres still carpel tunnel syndrome, heh
[12:46:32] <Jymmm> slip and fall, etc
[12:47:05] <malcom2073> Lightening strike could zap you at your PC
[12:47:30] <renesis> coworker can stab you with a cheap caliper
[12:47:30] <Jymmm> malcom2073: (No, that would be me zipping him at his computer)
[12:47:35] <Jymmm> zapping*
[12:47:42] <malcom2073> hah
[12:48:03] <renesis> oh man, new schaffner ESD guns go up to like 30kV
[12:48:19] <renesis> 2" sparks =O
[12:48:20] <Jymmm> malcom2073: If your'e nice, I'll give you the password to the zap-da-zeeshan website
[12:48:27] <malcom2073> Woohoo!
[12:48:33] <malcom2073> I promise to abuse it?
[12:48:49] <Jymmm> malcom2073: password om'ed to you
[12:48:52] <Jymmm> pm'ed
[12:48:57] <malcom2073> Yes!
[12:49:55] <malcom2073> Hey zeeshan, you see my video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZQXohif31g
[12:51:22] <zeeshan> not yet
[12:51:24] <zeeshan> i looked it up
[12:51:31] <zeeshan> on the projected salary i'd make over a year
[12:51:44] <zeeshan> the wsib insurance is only 300 per quarter
[12:51:51] <zeeshan> no 20 -> 35/hr makes 0 sense to me.
[12:52:10] <zeeshan> malcom2073: that looks sweet!
[12:53:45] <zeeshan> As a business owner, you file your personal income tax return and pay the same amount of tax as any employed wage earner. Your business income, after deductions, is considered your annual wage, you report it as professional or business income.
[12:53:56] <zeeshan> um, so you don't get taxed higher
[12:54:02] <zeeshan> not sure what you were talking about Jymmm? :P
[12:54:36] <ssi> hi
[12:56:06] <ssi> zeeshan: in the US if you're an employee of someone else they have to cover half your payroll taxes. If you're self-employed, you have to pay all of it
[12:56:19] <ssi> it's 16% before deductions
[12:58:47] <renesis> theyll usually pay part of your insurance benefits, and often match or at least help on retirement plans, so youre losing on that too
[12:58:55] <ssi> yeah but that's not a requirement
[12:59:04] <ssi> well I guess maybe it is in the Brave New World of the ACA
[12:59:07] <ssi> in some cases
[12:59:21] <renesis> nope but its pretty typical at anything but small companies
[12:59:33] <ssi> and I'm assuming that in canada that's less of a concern
[12:59:37] <ssi> cause everything's free there right?
[12:59:44] <renesis> insurance yeah, retirement i dont know
[12:59:45] <ssi> healthcare, retirement, food, housing
[13:00:05] <Jymmm> FICA, FUTA
[13:00:30] <Jymmm> FUTA is what empoyeers pay, that mist employees are not even aware of
[13:00:36] <Jymmm> most*
[13:01:12] <Jymmm> FUTA
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Federal-Unemployment-Tax
[13:01:46] <lair82> membiblio, I figured it out, I needed to run "sudo tail -f /var/log/kern.log" instead of "sudo tail -f /kern.log"
[13:02:02] <renesis> also you ask for more money to compensate for it being a less reliable position
[13:02:27] <lair82> Should I see data streaming in the terminal window after I enter that?
[13:02:51] <Jymmm> You mihgt be guarnteed 4 months, but what about the other 2+ months of not working had you taken a contract that was guarnteed a 12 months.
[13:03:29] <Jymmm> Hey, how is EMT conduit usually cut? hacksaw?
[13:04:13] <lair82> I use a metabo, and then deburr till clean.
[13:04:31] <Jymmm> lair82: metawhat?
[13:05:02] <_methods> pipe cutter
[13:05:42] <Jymmm> _methods: they cut steel? I've only used on copper pipe
[13:05:50] <_methods> i use mine on emt lol
[13:05:58] <_methods> no idea if it's good for it though
[13:06:29] <lair82> Metabo,
http://www.metabo.us/Product-catalog-handheld-powertools.23980+M59738758fec.0.html
[13:06:49] <Jymmm> lol, angle grinder.
[13:06:59] <lair82> A very nice, heavy duty angle grinder with a cut-off wheel.
[13:07:18] <Jymmm> I want to wire up the garage, should I just use plastic instead?
[13:07:56] <Jymmm> outlets and outlets for shop lighting
[13:08:03] <Jymmm> switched
[13:08:04] <lair82> Is it finished? Drywalled?
[13:08:05] <zeeshan> 6534.15 6432.58Independent contractors can deduct more expenses related to their job (for example, gas or cell phone costs) which means they sometimes pay less taxes. Employees can sometimes deduct a limited number of job-related expenses for tax purposes.
[13:08:07] <zeeshan> er
[13:08:28] <Jymmm> lair82: no, bare studs right now
[13:08:30] <zeeshan> awesome!!
[13:08:57] <lair82> I would just use nail on boxes and run the wiring thru the studs
[13:09:11] <Jymmm> lair82: is that legal?
[13:09:18] <_methods> not for you Jymmm
[13:09:25] <lair82> Are you going to finish it?
[13:09:26] <_methods> you need metal shielding
[13:09:37] <_methods> over your entire body
[13:09:43] <Jymmm> lair82: eventually
[13:10:09] <zeeshan> ssi
[13:10:11] <zeeshan> i read what you wrote
[13:10:15] <zeeshan> the tax system here is different
[13:10:34] <zeeshan> you get taxed on income whether it's a personal income
[13:10:35] <zeeshan> or business income
[13:10:40] <lair82> That meets code here in ohio, if the wiring/boxes/fixtures were on the face of the walls (exposed) then it would need to be in conduit.
[13:10:40] <zeeshan> its 15% for the first 43k
[13:10:53] <zeeshan> and 22% then next amount between 43k and 85k
[13:12:44] <zeeshan> and then 85k to 135k is 26 % and >135 is 29%
[13:13:13] <lair82> In my old garage, which was concrete block, I installed all new lights outlets etc, and I only had to run the conduit up the face of the block, then after the conduit crossed the plane in which the sheathing on the ceiling would have been, then I could return to just the Romex stapled to the joists.
[13:13:20] <Jymmm> lair82: Well, I'm just pricing out things right now. No clue what I'm doing, just would like the shop lights on a switch instead of pluggin in every time - Right now on 50ft 12ga ext cords
[13:13:32] <ssi> zeeshan: sounds way too straightforward
[13:13:37] <zeeshan> welcome to canada
[13:13:38] <zeeshan> :P
[13:13:41] <zeeshan> haha
[13:14:12] <lair82> That was inspected and approved per city code, which follows ohio building codes. Where are you at?
[13:14:22] <Jymmm> lair82: Calif
[13:15:43] <membiblio> Is there a page of offsets for the tools?
[13:15:53] <lair82> I would check with your local building inspection dept, or even look online in your relevant cities building department, Toledo Ohio had all that stuff online for download.
[13:17:00] <Jymmm> lair82: Ah, ok. Do I want 14/3, or go a lil bigger? 20A outlets would be beneficial once in a while.
[13:17:25] <Jymmm> s/outlet/circuit/
[13:17:29] <lair82> membiblio, Should I see data streaming in the terminal window after I setup the tail, or is it creating it's own file?
[13:17:55] <lair82> Definitely 12/2 for 20 amp
[13:18:06] <Jymmm> lair82: why 12/TWO ?
[13:18:07] <lair82> 14/2 is for 15 amp
[13:18:21] <Jymmm> instead of 12/3 ?
[13:18:32] <ssi> Jymmm: 120 or 240?
[13:18:40] <ssi> you need /3 for 240 with a neutral
[13:18:50] <Jymmm> ssi: Right now 110, maybe down the road 220
[13:18:51] <lair82> 12/2 romex with a ground
[13:19:08] <Jymmm> so run a seperate ground wire?
[13:19:14] <ssi> 12/2 is three conductor
[13:19:20] <Jymmm> OH
[13:19:23] <lair82> No, the romex will have the ground wire in it.
[13:19:32] <ssi> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/200406822160-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
[13:19:36] <Jymmm> I thought 12/2 was two conductor
[13:19:43] <ssi> http://allthumbsdiy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/romex-nm-b-12-3-fl.jpg
[13:19:55] <lair82> 12/3 would have red, black, white, and a bare ground.
[13:20:32] <Jymmm> Gotcha, I'm used to electronic cabling
[13:20:33] <lair82> ssi, your one step ahead of me,
[13:21:10] <ssi> Jymmm: ground wires are extra unnecessary crap that was tacked on later by overzealous building code authors :D
[13:22:10] <Jymmm> ssi: Ha, me getting the shit zapped out of every time I'm barefoot and touch one of my coumpters disagree's on the "unnessary" part of your stetement =)
[13:22:40] <ssi> um that sounds like static
[13:23:11] <Jymmm> ssi: Nah, the ground wire wasn't connected. inthe wall
[13:23:13] <ssi> I've gotten hit with 120 from ancient equipment that had 2 wire non-polarized leads and neutral connected to frame ground when the plug was backwards
[13:23:26] <Jymmm> Is there a non-mail option of these
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-1-2-in-Steel-Staples-for-14-2-12-2-and-10-2-Non-Metallic-Cable-500-Pack-MS-500J/100182811
[13:23:33] <lair82> I don't know ssi, coppers pretty cheap in these parts,,, ;) lol
[13:23:45] <Jymmm> like a screw variant?
[13:23:47] <ssi> but the ground wire is to provide an alternate path to ground in the case of accidental chassis currents caused by shorts
[13:24:04] <Jymmm> like on switching power supplys
[13:24:12] <ssi> at any rate, sarcasm detection is a useful skill to develop
[13:24:15] <Jymmm> ...with floating grounds
[13:24:33] <lair82> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-3-4-in-White-Plastic-Staples-for-Non-Metallic-Cables-50-Pack-PS-75/100137358
[13:24:46] <Jymmm> Oh, I took the sarcasim, just sharing the grounding benefits too
[13:24:48] <lair82> Quick, easy, meets code
[13:25:27] <Jymmm> lair82: thanks
[13:26:36] <Jymmm> lair82: I was thinking like staples where you just pull the trigger sorta thing, I hate nails =)
[13:26:55] <Jymmm> well, hammering nails more specifically
[13:27:19] <Jymmm> especially above head, or in tight spaces
[13:30:21] <Jymmm> So drill the studs and use nail plates?
[13:31:42] <Jymmm> ssi: If I want to run 220, would 12/2 still be ok?
[13:31:52] <ssi> yeah but you won't get a center neutral
[13:32:32] <Jymmm> oh, duh, 12/3... but is the 12ga ok, or go 10/3 ?
[13:32:39] <ssi> what are you powering
[13:32:55] <Jymmm> maybe a welder, or clothes dryer
[13:33:14] <cradek> wrong question - what is the breaker rated that it's coming from
[13:33:16] <ssi> lol well, I guess that depends on the size of the welder
[13:33:33] <Jymmm> it's just for future planning mostly
[13:33:46] <cradek> the breaker has to pop before the wire does
[13:34:13] <lair82> cradek, its more fun the opposite way
[13:34:14] <ssi> the breaker has to pop before the wire gets significantly hot
[13:34:15] <Jymmm> cradek: I'll have to run a new circuit if I want 220 in the garage
[13:34:18] <cradek> Jymmm: the search term is "ampacity"
[13:34:32] <ssi> it'll get very very hot long before it actually melts
[13:35:02] <cradek> yes the breaker must protect the wire
[13:35:14] <ssi> Jymmm: I dunno what kind of welder your imaginary future self has but my welder is run on 6awg on a 50A breaker
[13:35:15] <cradek> ambient temperature and exposed vs covered all matter for ampacity
[13:35:18] <Jymmm> What amp circuit do you guys have for 220?
[13:35:33] <cradek> Jymmm: that question doesn't make sense
[13:35:37] <ssi> no it doesn't
[13:36:01] <lair82> For my outbuilding I am looking at building, i am looking at 100amp 240v
[13:36:09] <Jymmm> I'll rarly use 220, but is 30A enough for a smaller welder or dryer?
[13:36:30] <Wolf_Mill> I have 100amp out to my garage
[13:36:40] <lair82> How far is the breaker box from the garage?
[13:36:51] <Jymmm> apx 40ft
[13:36:58] <ssi> probably. get a 220V outlet that's rated for 30A, wire it with wire sized to carry 30A, and a 30A breaker, and then force yourself to conform to the 30A rating in the future
[13:37:05] <ssi> or just wait til you have the need and run what you need
[13:37:18] <cradek> I think dryer circuits are often 30A
[13:37:19] <LatheBuilder2> Jymmm: for my mill, through a rotary phase converter I use a 100a 240vac. For the welders several circuits ranging from 20 - 30 - 50 amp.
[13:37:22] <Wolf_Mill> I have extension cords longer then that for 30A 240...
[13:37:29] <cradek> ovens are more
[13:37:32] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes, for any 220 appliance <5KW
[13:38:00] <Jymmm> Are you pulling your 110 from the 220 circuits as well?
[13:38:02] <lair82> I would run 50 amps at least, put a new 2 pole breaker in your breaker box, and put a small sub panel in the garage.
[13:38:16] <CaptHindsight> yes, electric ovens are often 50A or 60A circuits
[13:38:20] <LatheBuilder2> Is the object to not limit yourself, or to save money and have more options than you had before?
[13:38:43] <Wolf_Mill> subpanel IMO
[13:38:43] <LatheBuilder2> rather, save money while having more options than you had before
[13:38:49] <CaptHindsight> branch circuits are another story
[13:39:01] <Jymmm> LatheBuilder2: just to leave room for future expeansion.
[13:39:50] <ssi> what exactly makes a carbide grinder a carbide grinder?
[13:39:52] <ssi> just the wheels?
[13:40:01] <Wolf_Mill> So, went to the scrap yard to to drop off some old batterys, left payign him cash... $7
http://i.imgur.com/ezG2C30.jpg
[13:40:17] <LatheBuilder2> Jymmm subpanel gives you the most flexibility
[13:40:17] <_methods> diamonds
[13:40:25] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: lol nice
[13:40:32] <Wolf_Mill> but thats not all
[13:40:32] <_methods> but yea wheels and good dust control
[13:40:39] <ssi> _methods: the reason I ask is because people are talking about baldor carbide grinders
[13:40:41] <Wolf_Mill> found out he is closing up next week :9
[13:40:43] <_methods> carbide is like bad for you
[13:40:43] <Wolf_Mill> :(
[13:40:45] <ssi> they look very nice but very expensive
[13:40:51] <jdh> old med o2 tanks?
[13:41:05] <_methods> the wheels are very spendy
[13:41:05] <Jymmm> LatheBuilder2: ok
[13:41:16] <_methods> you can use those green wheels for rough carbide grinding
[13:41:30] <ssi> _methods: honestly I'm not super concerned about grinding carbide right now
[13:41:34] <_methods> but for getting a good finish you'll want good diamonds
[13:41:39] <ssi> I've never really learned how to properly grind hss lathe tools
[13:41:45] <ssi> I've always just cheated and spent money on indexable tooling
[13:41:50] <_methods> hahah
[13:41:51] <Wolf_Mill> but he mentioned a guy has a couple mills sitting out back
http://i.imgur.com/KcH5FH4.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BawBeW5.jpg
[13:41:55] <ssi> but part of the reason is I have CRAPPY bench grinders
[13:42:04] <jdh> I picked up a ton of lathe blanks from a craigslist deal
[13:42:09] <_methods> crappy bench grinders work just fine
[13:42:12] <_methods> it's all i have
[13:42:12] <LatheBuilder2> as the others are saying, you do of course need to run wire sized for the breaker upstream of the subpanel
[13:42:20] <ssi> no tool rests, and those chinese wheels that look like someone cut a chunk of concrete with a holesaw
[13:42:25] <_methods> i have boxes full of steel
[13:42:31] <_methods> no one wants it anymore
[13:42:46] <_methods> but for my little lathe i have to grind my own if i want good finish
[13:42:59] <ssi> yeah that's why I'm thinking I need to learn how to do it properly
[13:43:09] <ssi> cause I don't always get awesome finish with carbide indexable tooling
[13:43:15] <_methods> yeah
[13:43:31] <_methods> you won't
[13:43:38] <_methods> unless you're taking the proper cut
[13:44:19] <_methods> for my little lathe i need sharp point to get good finish
[13:44:36] <_methods> i can't cut deep enough or fast enough to get a good surface finish with carbide inserts
[13:45:37] <ssi> I could set up a sine vise on the surface grinder and make a tool to quite accurate geometry
[13:45:38] <_methods> i can kinda but it's much easier with a smaller tool nose radius
[13:45:40] <Wolf_Mill> should I call the guy who owns these,
http://i.imgur.com/XJoHkVe.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UfN8dNh.jpg ... and how much
[13:45:40] <ssi> but that seems like overkill :D
[13:45:53] <_methods> ssi: yeah that is overkill
[13:46:00] <_methods> you can grind be hand easy
[13:46:03] <_methods> you don't need anything fancy
[13:46:13] <ssi> well I need some wheels if nothing else
[13:46:22] <_methods> yeah
[13:46:28] <ssi> I have two grinders that are in operation right now... one has scotchbrite on both sides
[13:46:37] <ssi> the other is a harbor freight grinder that has the asphalt wheels on it
[13:46:48] <ssi> but it has the most incredible bearings ever produced in it apparently
[13:46:56] <ssi> when I shut it down, it'll spin for two hours
[13:46:58] <_methods> yeah get a fine wheel for one side and a rougher for the other
[13:47:05] <_methods> bout all you need
[13:47:14] <_methods> i keep a hand stone for finishin or touching up
[13:47:37] <ssi> I have hand stones but most of them are probably too fine
[13:47:47] <ssi> I used to go to great lengths sharpening woodworking edges
[13:47:48] <_methods> no that's good
[13:47:50] <ssi> hand plane irons and chisels
[13:47:55] <_methods> it's basically to polish the edge
[13:47:58] <ssi> I mean TOO fine
[13:47:59] <_methods> or take off burrs
[13:47:59] <ssi> like 16k
[13:48:02] <_methods> oh yeha
[13:48:04] <ssi> :)
[13:48:05] <_methods> that's a bit much
[13:48:10] <ssi> I have a 2000/8000 stone tho
[13:48:15] <_methods> that's good
[13:48:16] <_methods> 2000
[13:48:27] <ssi> it's a soft waterstone
[13:48:28] <_methods> i was going to recommend like 600-800
[13:48:32] <ssi> probably need some hard stones
[13:48:33] <ssi> oilstones
[13:48:33] <_methods> but 2000 will work
[13:49:15] <Wolf_Mill> so, bridgeport 2831237 sitting out behind the scrap shop... what ya all think...
[13:49:23] <_methods> $400
[13:49:34] <ssi> _methods: you done any casting?
[13:49:37] <_methods> no
[13:49:42] <_methods> always wanted too
[13:49:44] <ssi> want to come build a furnace with me? :P
[13:49:48] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[13:49:52] <_methods> but all my other projects keep ruining it for me
[13:49:54] <_methods> lol
[13:49:56] <ssi> haha
[13:50:01] * Jymmm hands ssi the trowel
[13:50:05] <Wolf_Mill> now what if the guy wont seperate the two machines...
[13:50:13] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: then buy em both
[13:50:15] <_methods> they're in rough shape
[13:50:30] <_methods> i see good condition bridgeports go for $800 at auction
[13:50:40] <_methods> i'd say $400 and take it or leave it
[13:50:55] <ssi> yeah probably not a bad place to start
[13:50:59] <ssi> they're definitely restorable
[13:51:02] <ssi> but it'll be a PROJECT
[13:51:07] <_methods> ^^
[13:51:34] <Wolf_Mill> dunno wtf I would do with that teknics
[13:51:38] <_methods> you're basically paying him scrap price
[13:51:43] <Wolf_Mill> its the size of my car
[13:51:45] <_methods> scrap one and keep the other
[13:51:59] <_methods> you'll make a couple hundred on the scrap
[13:52:11] <_methods> use that money for derusting supplies lol
[13:52:13] <ssi> might can salvage some parts from it
[13:52:23] <ssi> scrap the big castings but keep the small parts maybe
[13:52:37] <ssi> I see big castings like that and I think "melt it! meeeeeelt it!"
[13:52:37] <ssi> hahah
[13:52:40] <Wolf_Mill> I think he said the teknics is cnc
[13:55:00] <Wolf_Mill> pretty sure I saw a chip conveyer on it too
[14:04:38] <Wolf_Mill> can one even still find parts for that bridgeport?
[14:04:42] <ssi> sure
[14:04:51] <ssi> you may not like the price if they're new
[14:05:12] <CaptHindsight> lots of used BP parts floating around
[14:05:24] <Wolf_Mill> that was going to be my next question lol, rape prices or not too terrible
[14:07:27] <CaptHindsight> unless you crash them or store them outside they just wear in the usual places, e.g. bearings, screws, nuts
[14:08:52] <Wolf_Mill> well, I wasnt about to climb in there and check, it was in a rolloff dumpster
http://i.imgur.com/UfN8dNh.jpg
[14:09:39] <CaptHindsight> was it outside for long?
[14:09:58] <Wolf_Mill> no idea
http://i.imgur.com/KcH5FH4.jpg looks ok under the tarp
[14:11:32] <bobo_> ssi & methods take a look at www.arwarnerco.com for hss pre ground inserts
[14:11:44] <ssi> yea I'm familiar with the hss inserts
[14:11:53] <ssi> but tehy're not cheap, and part of the point is to learn how to do it :)
[14:12:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.shophardinge.com/kneemillparts.aspx for new parts
[14:12:18] <Wolf_Mill> grinder + the southbend how to book
[14:12:23] <ssi> warning that hardinge charges a hell of a lot for new parts
[14:12:34] <ssi> I had to order some parts for my HNC and it was ROUGH
[14:12:43] <ssi> $88 for a bellows coupling for the resolver/tach drive
[14:12:48] <ssi> $315 for a shuttle valve for teh turret
[14:14:26] <zeeshan> okay i talked to the gov
[14:14:34] <zeeshan> man it's wayyyyyyyyy better to be an independent contractor
[14:14:36] <zeeshan> vs employed
[14:14:40] <zeeshan> you pay a LOT less taxes
[14:14:47] <zeeshan> you pay more in some areas
[14:14:51] <zeeshan> but overall its much less
[14:15:01] <furrywolf> around here, you pay about DOUBLE as a contractor.
[14:15:03] * zeeshan is on a tangent today sorry
[14:15:14] <zeeshan> that sux
[14:15:18] <zeeshan> here the only thing you pay double on
[14:15:21] <zeeshan> is canada pension plan
[14:15:22] <zeeshan> that's it
[14:15:30] <zeeshan> you don't gotta pay ei
[14:15:35] <Wolf_Mill> hey zeeshan, I have your coolant bottle
http://i.imgur.com/ezG2C30.jpg
[14:15:37] <zeeshan> employment uninsurance (which is a bunch of bullshit)
[14:15:48] <ssi> employment uninsurance?
[14:15:49] <zeeshan> and you can claim a lot of expenses
[14:15:55] <zeeshan> employment insurance i mean
[14:15:56] <ssi> is that some backwards canadian version of unemployment insurance?
[14:15:58] <zeeshan> haha
[14:16:03] <zeeshan> wow i cant type
[14:16:05] <ssi> :D
[14:16:14] <zeeshan> gas, hair cuts
[14:16:18] <zeeshan> car maintenance
[14:16:28] <Wolf_Mill> oh you cant see the one on the left side...
[14:16:30] <zeeshan> car repairs (need a turbo on my car to get there faster)
[14:16:35] <zeeshan> :D
[14:16:50] <CaptHindsight> good thing those BP knee mills don't use kniption fittings
[14:16:56] <furrywolf> here in the US companies like pretending employees are contractors to save on taxes.
[14:18:47] <Wolf_Mill> zeeshan:
http://i.imgur.com/IAk5oLo.jpg
[14:18:56] <zeeshan> lol
[14:18:58] <zeeshan> jesus whats this
[14:19:18] <Wolf_Mill> alum oxygen tank
[14:19:37] <ssi> TINY MILL IS TINY
[14:19:44] <zeeshan> brb
[14:19:54] <CaptHindsight> is that a HF mini mill-drill?
[14:20:03] <ssi> HF X1 I think
[14:20:27] <Wolf_Mill> yup
[14:21:00] <CaptHindsight> is the Z manual?
[14:21:12] <furrywolf> my sherline is tiny too
[14:21:19] <ssi> yeah sherlines are very tiny
[14:21:21] <Wolf_Mill> aka the etchasketch this morning
http://i.imgur.com/j52xZPn.jpg http://i.imgur.com/B5uhafo.jpg
[14:22:17] <Wolf_Mill> next project is converting the Z to ball screw and adding stepper
[14:23:53] <ssi> https://www.reddit.com/r/shittyaskscience/comments/3iglqr/my_download_speed_is_20_mbps_and_my_upload_speed
[14:24:51] <Wolf_Mill> sounds right
[14:25:40] <Wolf_Mill> oh other fun project for this x1
http://i.imgur.com/kw6M9r7.jpg
[14:27:40] <malcom2073> Putting a sharpie on it?
[14:27:47] <malcom2073> Oh, a sensor!
[14:27:49] <Wolf_Mill> :P
[14:27:55] <furrywolf> I need to finish building my electronics enclosure, but back issues are making me pretty useless.
[14:27:58] <malcom2073> Touch sensor for Z touchoff?
[14:28:00] <Wolf_Mill> sharpie for scale :D
[14:28:04] <Wolf_Mill> nope
[14:28:08] <malcom2073> That sharpie aint no bananna
[14:28:11] <ssi> I need to finish all my things, but my night-time apathy is making me pretty useless
[14:28:14] <Wolf_Mill> inductive prox sensor
[14:28:18] <malcom2073> Hmmm
[14:28:18] <SpeedEvil> sharpie goes where?
[14:28:31] <malcom2073> I need to hook my servo drive up to linuxcnc
[14:28:37] <malcom2073> but I'm too lazy to actually install linuxcnc on a pc
[14:28:42] <ssi> SpeedEvil: :D
[14:29:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: are you an indp contractor?
[14:29:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I own my own business, complete with employees. it's like being a contractor, but worse.
[14:29:31] <furrywolf> especially since california hates small businesses.
[14:29:37] <LatheBuilderShop> Hi PCW
[14:30:24] <zeeshan> ah
[14:30:28] <zeeshan> why is tax double?
[14:30:33] <zeeshan> i guess employer pays half
[14:30:37] <zeeshan> and employee pays half?
[14:30:56] <furrywolf> yep
[14:30:56] <zeeshan> so say a person is making 85k in usa
[14:31:01] <furrywolf> so if you're a contractor, you pay both halves.
[14:31:02] <zeeshan> you only get taxed 16%?
[14:31:08] <furrywolf> no
[14:31:12] <ssi> zeeshan: 16% is just teh payroll taxes
[14:31:18] <furrywolf> there's lots of different taxes.
[14:31:22] <ssi> sadly its far more complex than that
[14:31:27] <furrywolf> both federal and state
[14:31:30] <zeeshan> 16% comes from you
[14:31:36] <zeeshan> and 16% comes from employer?
[14:31:39] <zeeshan> so 38% total?
[14:31:45] <CaptHindsight> ssi: that reddit thread reminds of the IT Crowd episode on the Internet
[14:31:45] <zeeshan> fak that is a lot.
[14:31:47] <ssi> if you make 100k as an employee, you actually make 108 because your employer is paying 8k payroll taxes, then you pay another 8k payroll taxes
[14:31:53] <Wolf_Mill> they fuck ya on the taxes coming, going and come back for more...
[14:31:54] <ssi> then you pay your progressive taxes on top of that
[14:32:03] <ssi> it's fucking complicated
[14:32:09] <zeeshan> i like our tax system here
[14:32:11] <furrywolf> brb
[14:32:11] <zeeshan> with the tax brackets
[14:32:16] <zeeshan> seems kinda crazy there
[14:32:19] <zeeshan> but it seems like you pay less tax.
[14:32:25] <zeeshan> for 100k here, we'd pay like 25k in taxes
[14:32:26] <zeeshan> not 8k
[14:32:41] <zeeshan> federal and provincial
[14:32:51] <ssi> 10% up to 9k, 15% on the next 30k, 25% on the next ~53k, and then 28% on the last little bit above that
[14:32:54] <Wolf_Mill> more messed up is some of the taxs are based on check size, not income level
[14:33:01] <ssi> of course yo uget your deductions in there at some point
[14:33:04] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: YES I HATE THAT
[14:33:07] <ssi> makes bonuses suck
[14:33:39] <ssi> zeeshan: again that 16% is just the payroll taxes...
[14:33:47] <ssi> payroll taxes is what they take to give free shit to old people
[14:33:52] <furrywolf> I pay more than 25% in taxes.
[14:33:56] <ssi> income taxes is what they take to give free shit to young people
[14:34:01] <zeeshan> okay
[14:34:02] <Wolf_Mill> I do billing shit for my mom, she does payroll monthy, she raised my pay $300... my checks went up $5
[14:34:04] <ssi> and to buidld roads and tell people what they can and can't do
[14:34:05] <zeeshan> so its not much different here
[14:34:11] <zeeshan> my first year of work will be sweet
[14:34:14] <ssi> and build fighter jets
[14:34:14] <zeeshan> ill be paying 0
[14:34:16] <zeeshan> i mean ZERO tax
[14:34:17] <ssi> then you pay state tax
[14:34:23] <zeeshan> cause of all my tuition credits
[14:34:25] <ssi> which is what they take so they can do statey things
[14:34:27] <zeeshan> i can pay off my student loans and stuff :P
[14:34:40] <ssi> and then you pay property taxes, which is what they take so you can pay for other people's kids to go to school,
[14:34:46] <ssi> and pay for police to kick the shit out of you for no reason
[14:34:57] <SpeedEvil> ssi: not for no reason.
[14:35:04] <ssi> and a little in there for them to put my house out when fire
[14:35:08] <SpeedEvil> ssi: bullets are expensive, they can't shoot everyone.
[14:35:21] <Wolf_Mill> hah, taxes dont go for that here...
[14:35:35] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: what, fire?
[14:35:38] <furrywolf> here we have stealth property taxes in the form of permits. you need a permit to do ANYTHING to your house. one of the examples they give on their "you NEED a permit!" brouchure is replacing a broken dishwasher as something that absolutely requires a permit...
[14:35:40] <Wolf_Mill> both fire companys in my area are voulteer
[14:35:44] <ssi> we have some fire taxes coming out of property taxes
[14:35:48] <ssi> they're volunteer but there's still taxes
[14:35:54] <ssi> plus the fire departments actually charge you for the service
[14:35:55] <furrywolf> and permit fees are about 30% of the expected cost of the repair/improvement.
[14:36:00] <ssi> my insurance company had to pay a few hundred
[14:36:13] <malcom2073> furrywolf: that just cause you live in cali, the rest of the country only needs permits for additions or structure, not replacements :P
[14:36:33] <bobo_> "payroll taxes is what they take to give free shit to old people" what free shit ?
[14:36:39] <Wolf_Mill> no, my county likes to permit for most everything
[14:36:40] <ssi> social security and medicare
[14:37:20] <furrywolf> someone I know just got a new roof for $7100... and a $3000 permit. see, actually raising property taxes requires a vote, and no one will approve them. but they can arbritarily add permit fees....
[14:37:32] <ssi> $3000 for a roof permit?!
[14:37:34] <ssi> that's absurd
[14:37:40] <furrywolf> yes. :P
[14:37:45] <ssi> my permits were $355
[14:37:49] <ssi> which is still pretty fucking ridiculous
[14:37:58] <Wolf_Mill> I read the codes for my county, you need a permit to change any electrical, I think outlets were included
[14:37:59] <furrywolf> and that's on a 30x50 simple roof with cheapo composite shingles.
[14:38:06] <furrywolf> Wolf_Mill: yep
[14:38:09] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: yes that's standard
[14:38:16] <lair82> ssi, did you ever find out what caused your house fire?
[14:38:16] <furrywolf> or any plumbing. got a leaky faucet? that's a permit! etc.
[14:38:24] <ssi> lair82: uh yeah, there was never any question
[14:38:27] <ssi> lair82: the laser :P
[14:38:29] <Wolf_Mill> yeah.. fuck that
[14:38:33] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, does the 7i77 require scaling? I am looking through the parameter list from halcmd show param >allparams.txt
[14:38:37] <lair82> ????
[14:38:40] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: nobody actually gets permits for that crap
[14:38:44] <ssi> but legally you're supposed to
[14:39:10] <lair82> A laser burnt your house down?
[14:39:19] <furrywolf> they claim it's a health and safety issue. in reality, it's just a way to collect money from homeowners, that doesn't require a vote, unlike raising property taxes.
[14:39:24] <ssi> lair82: I had switched to a longer lens, and there was still plywood in the bottom of the table where the exhaust fan was mounted, the longer lens was charring that plywood, and on a long slow cut it got hot and caught fire
[14:39:30] <SpeedEvil> lair82: lasers can't burn houses down.
[14:39:34] <SpeedEvil> lair82: Only LASERs.
[14:39:39] <PCW> default 7I77 analog scaling is in volts
[14:39:56] <LatheBuilderShop> i see the analogoutN-minlim/maxlim/scalemax but for the other axis' they cap at 10v.
[14:40:24] <PCW> yes default is +-10V
[14:40:27] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, that makes sense with what i see. is it desirable to change to rpm, or scale elsewhere?
[14:40:48] <lair82> Oooooohhhhh, I see, I just remember when I sent you that stuff a while back, I sent it to your old address.
[14:41:08] <ssi> yea
[14:41:19] <LatheBuilderShop> working on spindle scaling with a vfd, 0-10v positive, with separate contacts for fwd/rev
[14:41:24] <PCW> for axis its desirable to scale in machine units/second
[14:41:25] <PCW> for spindles it should be scaled in RPM
[14:41:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150828-3d-printed-vegemite-to-power-leds--could-this-be-the-future-of-edible-electronics.html
[14:41:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/images2015/dutch-professor-proves-that-vegemite-is-3.jpg
[14:42:09] <_methods> roycroft: is the best place to buy a kegerator kit online or would you be better off going to a local brew store?
[14:42:31] <ssi> _methods: does amazon have them?
[14:42:38] <_methods> i think so
[14:42:44] <ssi> I'd think that the question is whether shipping outweighs the markup in a local store
[14:42:51] <_methods> i know roycroft is a brew maniac
[14:42:53] <ssi> but if amazon has them prime, that's an easy decision :)
[14:43:05] <_methods> figured he'd be in the know
[14:43:07] <ssi> unless you need the brew store to help you pick out what you need
[14:43:19] <PCW> so for example if full linear speed was 240 IPM (4 IPS) then the scalemax and maxlim should be 4 and minlim -4
[14:43:34] <_methods> it's not my question, buddy of mine was askin about it
[14:43:38] <PCW> (that is 240 IPM at 10V)
[14:43:44] <_methods> i said hey i know this guy that;'s really into brewing
[14:43:49] <_methods> i'll ask him
[14:43:52] <LatheBuilderShop> that's what I am figuring. Machine is functional, but spindle is pretty out of scale. minlim =0 maxlim =10, scalemax = 10 works the best of the permutations I have tested
[14:44:39] <LatheBuilderShop> it functions flawlessly for spindle speeds commanded between 1 and 10. full speed at 10, linear between.
[14:44:53] <Wolf_Mill> well, these should be easy to install
http://i.imgur.com/nI63d6V.jpg
[14:46:04] <PCW> spindle should be scaled in RPM so your M3 M4 Sxxx work correctly
[14:46:11] <LatheBuilderShop> changing scalemax to 3000 bumps it into some kind of limp mode. makes me think there is an external scale parameter meant to feed into it. is there a list of those somewhere? either I am missing them or they are not listed in the
[14:46:28] <LatheBuilderShop> (getting my test sheet)
[14:46:41] <PCW> you need to set scalemax and maxlim (and minlim)
[14:47:09] <PCW> scalemax sets the scaling maxlim and minlim set the bounds
[14:47:33] <Wolf_Mill> wow, digikey sells them sensors for $75 each
[14:47:51] <LatheBuilderShop> testing as we talk
[14:48:15] <PCW> so for a 3000 RPM spindle at 10V scalemax is 3000, maxlim is 3000 minlim is -3000
[14:48:20] <furrywolf> ebay prices are often digikey's prices >>1....
[14:48:37] <Wolf_Mill> lol, I paid $6
[14:49:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/biophobe/weighitz-the-new-way-to-weigh?ref=category_popular
[14:49:28] <furrywolf> $75>>1 is about $6, so my rough formula holds. :P
[14:49:40] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[14:49:46] <ssi> assuming base 10 shift :P
[14:49:58] <ssi> cause a standard base 2 shift would make it $37 :D
[14:50:33] <furrywolf> ssi: yes. 1001011>>1 would be a different answer. :P
[14:51:28] <ssi> imcmahon-imac:sub imcmahon$ irb
[14:51:28] <ssi> irb(main):001:0> 75 >> 1
[14:51:28] <ssi> => 37
[14:51:33] <ssi> pretty much any language works this way :D
[14:51:45] <furrywolf> except english. :P
[14:51:53] <ssi> engling doesn't have bitwise shift operators
[14:51:57] <ssi> english either
[14:51:58] <furrywolf> lol
[14:52:34] <furrywolf> I was going to type "with the decimal placed moved one spot to the left", but I'm lazy, and >>1 came to mind much faster than typing anything... :P
[14:55:25] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, that's what I have it set to right now, does not function as expected. Checking Show Hal Configuration to confirm that they are actually changed. Perhaps it is referencing the wrong .hal and .ini
[14:55:31] <Wolf_Mill> ...
[14:57:15] <LatheBuilderShop> confirmed. hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim is 3000, -minlim is -3000 -scalemax is 3000
[14:57:42] <Wolf_Mill> so, in the grand scheme of things, Z axis really only needs a home switch right?
[14:58:04] <LatheBuilderShop> all commanded speeds both forward and reverse only turn the spindle on at perhaps 60 rpm
[14:58:04] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: a negative limit couldn't hurt but you could live without it
[14:58:11] <ssi> especially on a stepper machine
[14:58:21] <renesis> $75>>1 is $3d
[14:58:26] <furrywolf> my sherline only has 5 switches, if that's what you're asking. :)
[14:58:30] <ssi> renesis: :D
[14:58:46] * furrywolf was waiting for someone to notice that
[14:59:02] <renesis> does c use $ for hex?
[14:59:06] <furrywolf> no
[14:59:12] <furrywolf> c is 0xhex
[14:59:19] <renesis> i think most compilers are like fuck u
[14:59:23] <furrywolf> i.e. 0xdeadbeef
[14:59:34] <renesis> ya, $ works in asm
[15:00:34] <LatheBuilderShop> system specs: fresh install from the debian livecd, security updates installed, updated linuxcnc to master to get latest version of pncconf. Have been doing primary adjustments in pcnconf but testing smaller changes directly editing the hal and ini.
[15:01:01] <LatheBuilderShop> I see the reference structure between the two.
[15:02:06] <furrywolf> of course, different flavors of asm use different symbols.
[15:02:42] <PCW> LatheBuilderShop: confirmed how?
[15:02:44] <PCW> you need to look at analog out also
[15:02:45] <PCW> if scalemax is 3000 and maxlim is 3000 and analog out is 3000 then the output will be 10V
[15:04:09] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, confirmed that the parameters are really set to those numbers via axis >> machine >> show hal configuration. Drilling down into 7i77 tree
[15:04:32] <furrywolf> I did a bit on mips, and $ is register there. :)
[15:04:33] <LatheBuilderShop> function is broken though.
[15:04:48] <LatheBuilderShop> changing analogout5-maxlim to 10.0, minlim to -10.0, scalemax to 10.0 gives full speed operation for m3 s3000, but the same speed for all commanded speeds between s11 and s3000 get 3000 rpm
[15:05:45] <LatheBuilderShop> with scalemax = 3000, etc. all commanded speeds from 1 to 10000 turn the spindle on but for the same roughly 60 rpm.
[15:06:06] <PCW> thats the expected result at bounds of 10
[15:07:54] <LatheBuilderShop> getting out multimeter, if I probe the physical pins for channel 5 analog outputs will I hurt anything? battery powered = isolated from mains
[15:08:02] <PCW> no
[15:08:31] <PCW> probably more fruitful to look at the hal file
[15:08:35] <furrywolf> blah. the chance of rain for tomorrow is now 100%. :(
[15:09:00] <furrywolf> meaning the rainy season is probably starting, and I've wasted the entire fucking summer with my back hurting.
[15:09:06] <PCW> I expect something is bonkers there
[15:09:06] <LatheBuilderShop> ok. I'll dump it in pastebin from the other machine
[15:12:02] <zeeshan> pcw is there any advantage of using scalemax
[15:12:06] <zeeshan> over scale component?
[15:12:17] <zeeshan> i mean using mesa scaling vs scale component
[15:13:30] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, pastebin.com/b47aMs7D hal file
[15:16:15] <LatheBuilderShop> pastebin.com/4W4fCrsM ini file
[15:25:20] <Guest54707> hi
[15:26:26] <LatheBuilderShop> hi Guest54707
[15:28:29] <Guest54707> some one have this pdf book theory and design of cnc systems
[15:29:41] <LatheBuilderShop> if you are looking for pirated books this is the wrong irc channel
[15:30:30] <Guest54707> pirated no man i need hardcopy
[15:31:27] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Systems-Springer-Advanced-Manufacturing/dp/1848003358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440792481&sr=8-1&keywords=theory+and+design+of+cnc+systems&pebp=1440792486963&perid=1DS6F39N717R34JGZAE4
[15:31:33] <_methods> amazon has it
[15:31:46] <_methods> 2 left in stock you better hurry
[15:32:21] <furrywolf> LatheBuilderShop: I sometimes look for pirated books and I'm in this channel. :P
[15:32:46] <LatheBuilderShop> grin. i hear you furrywolf
[15:33:19] <Guest54707> amazon not deliver in Afghanistan
[15:33:26] <Guest54707> :(
[15:33:59] <PCW> spindle connections in HAL file are all crubbly
[15:34:16] <LatheBuilderShop> if you are stationed there, give amazon your .mil shipping address.
[15:34:48] <Guest54707> do you think there is street adresses ?
[15:35:06] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, when i upgraded to master i noticed there are lots of extra junk in there. I can revert to latest stable release again. It was cleaner
[15:35:14] <renesis> you have some sort of base or post, no?
[15:35:35] <PCW> ant the minimum lines 258 and 259 are flat out wrong
[15:35:48] <Guest54707> hahah montain number 36 hut umber 2
[15:36:03] <malcom2073> If you don't get mail shipments, you're SOL :)
[15:36:08] <malcom2073> If you do, you should have an APO
[15:36:50] <furrywolf> renesis: he could actually live there, you know. :)
[15:36:59] <PCW> in line 258 spindle-vel-cmd-abs is a unused signal (it should be spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs )
[15:37:00] <renesis> someone said .mil
[15:37:03] <renesis> shrug
[15:37:39] <_methods> he said afghanistan and i think people assumed he was a service member there or something
[15:38:14] <PCW> I dont think reverting will fix it (this has always been busted in pncconf configs)
[15:38:18] <Guest54707> no sir i am not service member they got every thing they want
[15:39:15] <Guest54707> i am a poor afghani want to learn some thing
[15:39:37] <malcom2073> Not so poor if you can afford a $200 book :P
[15:39:43] <Guest54707> but i think now internet is restricted
[15:40:01] <malcom2073> You could find someone to purchase it for you, and ship it to you, but if, as you said, you don't have a mailing address.....
[15:40:13] <Guest54707> used book import from Uk
[15:40:17] <PCW> line 259
[15:40:18] <PCW> net machine-is-enabled => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[15:40:20] <PCW> is really bad
[15:40:21] <PCW> it should be
[15:40:23] <PCW> net spindle-enable => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[15:40:36] <Guest54707> please share if some one have
[15:40:50] <malcom2073> That would be piracy, and as mentioned, this is the wrong channel for that.
[15:41:02] <LatheBuilderShop> ok, editing 258 & 259 now.
[15:41:29] <Guest54707> any friend can share with me
[15:41:33] <Guest54707> please
[15:41:50] <Guest54707> its not piracy
[15:41:52] <malcom2073> Guest54707: Buy it on kindle
[15:41:55] <malcom2073> And read it on your PC
[15:42:04] <malcom2073> No package shipment required
[15:43:20] <Guest54707> good idea
[15:43:43] <Guest54707> from where i can get cradit card sir ?
[15:44:07] <malcom2073> Don't know, not familair with your country
[15:46:54] <Guest54707> for clean water we have to go 70 miles away from our home
[15:46:55] <_methods> margarita time
[15:46:57] <Guest54707> daily
[15:47:25] <Guest54707> and u r asking kindle
[15:47:28] <malcom2073> sounds like perhaps there are better uses of your time than CNC Design theory.
[15:47:44] <Guest54707> why not
[15:47:56] <Guest54707> is it just for u ppl ?
[15:48:31] <malcom2073> It's for anyone who has the interest.
[15:48:54] <Guest54707> ok have to go on darknet
[15:48:54] <malcom2073> Far be it for me to set others priorities :) but if you're going to throw your hardships out there totally out of context, I'm going to comment on them
[15:48:58] <Guest54707> cu
[15:49:27] <_methods> johnny chimpo
[15:49:56] <malcom2073> Hehe
[15:50:17] <malcom2073> That should totally be a real thing
[15:50:17] <Guest54707> make ur own cncs without encoders
[15:50:27] <_methods> it is a real thing
[15:50:30] <malcom2073> You can do it without encoders, if you use something like steppers
[15:50:32] <_methods> and they're making a part 2
[15:50:41] <malcom2073> Is it? *goes and googles*
[15:50:57] <_methods> they're crowd funding it
[15:50:58] <LatheBuilderShop> That did it PCW ! Forward now works as it is supposed to. Reverse does not, but I may have something off hardware wise.
[15:51:05] <_methods> you can get in the movie
[15:51:06] <Guest54707> some one explain me precision ?
[15:51:06] <Wolf_Mill> Guest54707: you find your answer about double pulse yet?
[15:51:45] <Guest54707> i got it and i need precision
[15:52:30] <malcom2073> no, I mean the cartoon
[15:52:37] * Wolf_Mill wonders how one has to go 70 miles for water yet has a cnc machine
[15:53:12] <Guest54707> i am just lerning
[15:53:21] <furrywolf> Guest54707: drill a well. :)
[15:53:28] <Guest54707> i do not have mony to buy a system
[15:54:00] <Guest54707> serch afghanistan on google earth
[15:54:21] <Guest54707> and tell me where i drill
[15:55:02] <malcom2073> Guest54707: You need a stick:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing
[15:55:22] <furrywolf> I drilled my own water well. it was fun. I learned a lot. :P
[15:55:39] <Guest54707> friends u can not give me few doller book ?
[15:55:44] <Guest54707> just a book
[15:55:50] <Guest54707> u are hideing
[15:55:52] <malcom2073> Guest54707: a $180 book you mean? Likely not
[15:56:06] <malcom2073> we're not hiding, we're right here
[15:56:17] * furrywolf doesn't have the book, and thus can not give the book.
[15:56:27] <furrywolf> also, you call a week's income a few dollars...
[15:56:30] * Wolf_Mill cant reed
[15:56:31] <Guest54707> how ?
[15:56:34] <malcom2073> Nor do I have the book
[15:57:07] <Guest54707> u ppl are hiding knowledge
[15:57:14] <malcom2073> How can you hide, what you do not have?
[15:57:39] <Wolf_Mill> few hours on google and I made a cnc machine...
[15:57:46] <malcom2073> And youtube, lots of youtube
[15:57:58] <Guest54707> all junk
[15:58:00] <Wolf_Mill> I dont know where the info is hiding but its not very deeply hidden
[15:58:31] <Wolf_Mill> dont call my my peice of crap machine junk
[15:58:33] <malcom2073> Junk is relative. How do you define junk?
[15:58:48] <PCW> I wouldn't mind having that book also, if you find a free one send it my way :-)
[15:58:53] <Guest54707> sorry sir i didnt mean it
[15:59:27] <Wolf_Mill> oh speaking of junk, found this hiding at the scrapper malcom2073
http://i.imgur.com/UfN8dNh.jpg turns out the guy I work with knows who owns it too
[15:59:38] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: did you pick it up? :)
[15:59:54] <Wolf_Mill> not yet, going to find out what he wants for it
[16:00:26] <Deejay> gn8
[16:00:31] <Wolf_Mill> the current guess is they guy had them set up to make parts for his asphalt shingle grinder
[16:01:03] <Guest54707> :)
[16:01:10] <LatheBuilderShop> g'nite Deejay
[16:01:22] <malcom2073> Heh
[16:01:26] <malcom2073> looks pretty rusty
[16:01:38] <Wolf_Mill> think its been sitting for about a year
[16:01:45] <malcom2073> That's about how long mine was outside
[16:01:52] <malcom2073> the screws were still perfect since they weren't direct in the rain
[16:02:27] <Wolf_Mill> some odd brand, bridgeport
[16:02:35] <LatheBuilderShop> Wolf_Mill you were asking about CAM the other day. I really dig the CAM portion of Autodesk Fusion 360.
[16:03:00] <malcom2073> hah
[16:03:04] <renesis> free for students
[16:03:13] * Wolf_Mill isnt student :/
[16:03:13] <malcom2073> Odd eh?
[16:03:16] <LatheBuilderShop> It even comes with a linuxcnc postprocessor.
[16:03:19] <Guest54707> what about me ?
[16:03:27] <renesis> it works, the cad/cam ui is a bit annoying
[16:03:33] <malcom2073> Guest54707: Hello there, what about you?
[16:03:46] <Wolf_Mill> sorry itar regs probably
[16:03:52] <renesis> wolf_mill: also for startups, shrug just say youre a student
[16:03:52] <LatheBuilderShop> Also free for a year to use for startups.
[16:04:07] <PCW> LatheBuilderShop: if you dont mind can you file a bug report so pncconf gets fixed before 2.7 is released?
[16:04:24] <LatheBuilderShop> would love to, where is the right channel?
[16:04:54] <PCW> there a place on source forge to file linuxcnc bug reports
[16:05:14] <PCW> but lacking that maybe linuxcnc-devel
[16:05:31] <LatheBuilderShop> Wolf_Mill after a year it goes to something like $40/month max, lower plans I think are available. Worth it if you are making things to sell at all.
[16:05:56] <PCW> both those bugs have been around for a while
[16:06:14] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, is linuxcnc-devel a mailing list?
[16:06:26] <LatheBuilderShop> (searching soruceforge)
[16:06:49] <PCW> there are both mailing lists and irc channels
[16:08:08] <PCW> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/code/Contributing-to-LinuxCNC.html
[16:10:15] <Guest54707> bye going to sleep 2:00 AM
[16:15:15] <Wolf_Mill> now do we un-hide the knowledge?
[16:18:53] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, will do. Thanks immensely for the help!
[16:24:00] <Wolf_Mill> oh, back to what I was asking about z axis home/limit, having tooling is usually going to skew the bottom limit right, not seeing much of a point to it
[16:35:07] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Do me a favor, unhide yourself in private k?
[16:38:31] <XXCoder> heys
[16:40:22] <malcom2073> Hi
[16:43:31] <XXCoder> love it when I wake up little bit ill :P
[16:44:26] <malcom2073> That's always fun
[16:44:52] <XXCoder> in least I can include the word "little". lol
[16:55:11] <ganzuul> Anybody here from Nantucket?
[16:56:00] <XXCoder> 136 total people, billion possible locations, roll a die
[16:56:03] <XXCoder> heh
[16:56:38] <ganzuul> I have a friend who moved there to work. He's interested in blacksmithing.
[16:57:20] <ganzuul> 23 yo
[16:57:24] <Wolf_Mill> i know a couple blacksmiths
[16:57:37] <Wolf_Mill> not in Nantucket
[16:59:41] <Wolf_Mill> ...wonder if the PSU for my steppers will work better set to 115v mode instead of 220v...
[17:00:13] <ganzuul> If they are getting 220v, no.
[17:00:23] <Wolf_Mill> input
[17:00:39] <ganzuul> bleh, I mean, yeah...
[17:00:52] <Wolf_Mill> :)
[17:02:33] <furrywolf> There once was a blacksmith from Nantucket / who was looking for work and stuck it / but his friend asked on IRC / and for some reason he asked we / and finally gave up and said fuckit.
[17:03:00] <ganzuul> \o/
[17:03:22] <ganzuul> I don't know a lot of metal-wranglers.
[17:13:28] <malcom2073> blacksmiths are a different breed. I know one who does all sorts of local events, he's uh... interesting haha
[17:15:59] <Wolf_Mill> heh same here, one I know was going to proof shot a cannon at my house
[17:20:46] <malcom2073> Hah
[17:23:22] <Wolf_Mill> better twist, hasnt happend cause the owner hasnt been in town when he is free, owner of the cannon is his mom lol
[17:23:49] <malcom2073> lol
[17:24:04] <malcom2073> "Your mom wears combat boots!" "Yeah, and she has a cannon too!"
[17:26:11] <Wolf_Mill> ... dammit I know just how I want to lay this control board out, but cant mill the damn slot for the parallel cable in it
[17:28:28] <Wolf_Mill> and these neat things...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221792316963 cant mount them flush to the front cause the damn shunt bar is in the way
[17:30:05] <malcom2073> Heh
[17:30:09] <malcom2073> Need a bigger enclosure?
[17:30:40] <Wolf_Mill> no, look at teh pic of them, the little bar sticks out past the front of the led
[17:31:16] <malcom2073> Probably designed to be *behind* a clear cover or something
[17:31:21] <malcom2073> Rather than sticking through
[17:31:54] <Wolf_Mill> meh
[17:32:15] <Wolf_Mill> guess I need some light smoked lexan or something
[17:34:17] <Wolf_Mill> hmm, no real reason to have the parallel bob cable accessable, not like I'm going to unhook it
[17:35:41] <malcom2073> Why can't you mill the slot?
[17:35:48] <malcom2073> Box too tall?
[17:36:10] <Wolf_Mill> 12"x13" tray with 1" tall lip around the outside
[17:36:22] <Wolf_Mill> I was goign to put it on the edge
[17:39:20] <Wolf_Mill> but, kinda pointless to leave it hanging out the side
[17:40:06] <Wolf_Mill> if I want to cnc the lathe, I have a old school db25 printer switch
[17:42:23] <malcom2073> Yeah no real reason to have the DB25 hanging
[17:42:30] <malcom2073> In theory, you shouldn't need to disconnect it often if ever :)
[17:42:56] <Wolf_Mill> or even smarter, just swap the motor outs from the mill to the lathe with
http://amzn.com/B00G9KMKJ4
[17:43:48] <malcom2073> Psh nonsense, get a second PC :P
[17:43:58] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[17:54:04] <ganzuul> malcom2073: My friend might not know that blacksmithing is different from the rest of metalworking... Seems like that distinctionis something one needs time to properly digest.
[17:55:04] <SpeedEvil> Blacksmithing is more sweaty?
[17:55:12] <malcom2073> Yeah, blacksmithing involves heat?
[17:58:30] <XXCoder> Wolf_Mill: thats actually decent idea, get a used pc from pc recycle, because then you can run both machines at once
[18:12:23] <furrywolf> grrrrr. I just called back progressive again about my claim, expecting to, as usual, get the agent's voicemail... but no! this time I got a recording saying she doesn't work there anymore, and I'd be transferred to the operator for help.
[18:12:29] <furrywolf> So, now I have a new agent... who's apparantly out of the office, and hasn't set up working voicemail.
[18:12:52] <XXCoder> oh that sucks
[18:17:13] <furrywolf> the girl I got transferred to seemed rather surprised. I can only imagine she up and quit, or got unexpectedly fired.
[18:18:18] <furrywolf> she worked there yesterday! heh
[18:18:23] <XXCoder> wow
[18:18:28] <XXCoder> wonder whats story there
[18:19:55] <furrywolf> she didn't sound odd at all yesterday. actually, it was wednesday, not yesterday - my bad. could have decided to quit, could have been fired, could have walked in front of a bus...
[18:20:13] <XXCoder> yeah anythings possible
[18:20:39] <XXCoder> I remember one time I was working and needed specific tool
[18:21:01] <XXCoder> gy helped me get it, and it ended up the last thing he did working for company
[18:21:07] <XXCoder> he was fired right after
[18:21:23] <XXCoder> he was head of dept I was working at that time
[18:21:24] <furrywolf> probably to be replaced by someone useless?
[18:21:43] <XXCoder> no, there was large shuffle and guy thats awesome got that position
[18:22:27] <XXCoder> I moved to router dept after couple weeks working machine on my own (I was in middle of internship and mentor had to move to router, learn how to manage it, then start my internship again)
[18:22:40] <XXCoder> router dept that is
[18:31:55] <XXCoder> interesting
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swissbarefootcompany/freeyourfeet-with-the-worlds-most-minimalist-footw
[18:33:32] * furrywolf will wait for a steel-toed version, not wearing anything else.
[18:33:49] <furrywolf> also, I still don't know what it is, as that page is taking forever to load, and so far appears to be videos. why the hell would I want a video?!
[18:34:11] <XXCoder> I do suggest linktube
[18:34:16] <furrywolf> yeah, it's attemping to automatically play a video, and that's why it's not working.
[18:34:20] <XXCoder> it replaces all yotube videos with links
[18:34:34] <XXCoder> its for firefox though dunno if theres chrome version
[18:35:17] <SpeedEvil> 'google chrome'
[18:35:38] <furrywolf> how about an addon to replace videos with a sequence of annotated still images? :P
[18:35:40] <XXCoder> or the open source version. whjatever
[18:35:42] <SpeedEvil> google hates any addons that screw with youtube functionality in any way
[18:35:48] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I want that but dont think it exists
[18:36:08] <XXCoder> or in least picture so i can see if its worth clicking lol
[18:36:42] <furrywolf> why the hell do kickstarter people always start with a video? a video is roughly the LAST thing I care about.
[18:38:03] <furrywolf> so someone made spectra socks, and stuck them in the machine that makes those rubber-dotted jersey gloves.
[18:38:35] <XXCoder> its not too bad idea, I like going barefoot
[18:39:11] <furrywolf> but it doesn't protect against pointy things, the number one reason not to go barefoot. :P
[18:39:12] <furrywolf> they're socks.
[18:39:28] <XXCoder> actually it does protect against sharp stuff
[18:39:35] <XXCoder> just not thin pointy stuff
[18:39:37] <furrywolf> firefox's addon search finds nothing names linktube...
[18:40:07] <XXCoder> https://github.com/sebaro/LinkTube
[18:40:23] <furrywolf> thin and pointy is still relative. it's a sock. :P
[18:40:25] <furrywolf> spectra/dyneema is strong, but it's not a miracle.
[18:40:33] <XXCoder> it isnt
[18:41:20] <SpeedEvil> Also - if you can't construct your ad grammatically - closed.
[18:41:22] <ganzuul> doood...!
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Super-C3-Mini-Lathe-Spares#SC3-132-Bed
[18:41:44] <SpeedEvil> 'dyneema got a high thermal conductivity' - no. Just no.
[18:41:59] <ganzuul> So you can buy this precision ground casting for 77 GBP...
[18:42:44] <furrywolf> precision is relative.
[18:43:24] <SpeedEvil> i can make that out of plywood for $3
[18:43:25] <ganzuul> I'm sure you can make it less relative with a little elbow grease.
[18:43:49] <ganzuul> SpeedEvil: If you can turn wood into iron, sold.
[18:45:19] <ganzuul> I wonder if I could buy like, 3 of those castings and make my lathe much longer...
[18:45:51] <ganzuul> Some filing and a bit of epoxy.
[18:46:56] <furrywolf> their 15 times stronger than steel claim is quite misleading, as it doesn't mention BY WEIGHT, while the diagram shows them being the same SIZE...
[18:47:17] <XXCoder> yeah decided to not go for it
[18:47:51] <furrywolf> you know those cotton jersey gloves with rubber dots on them, available at places like the dollar store? imagine those on your feet. :)
[18:47:59] <furrywolf> it's better than barefoot, but not much.
[18:48:29] <XXCoder> if it was say $20 I'd went for it
[18:48:34] <XXCoder> $50 is ricious
[18:48:46] <furrywolf> also, I suspect actual testing will show it's not just sea urchin spines that go through... one of the main problems with kevlar vests, a very similar material, is knives go right through them.
[18:49:09] <SpeedEvil> It's going to seriously reduce the amount of foot-penetrating trauma.
[18:49:13] <furrywolf> both cutting the material and simply stretching out the weave. and it's less than half dyneema anyway.
[18:49:20] <SpeedEvil> I don't think anyones going to disagree with that.
[18:49:39] <SpeedEvil> On some trails, it may make it sane to run, if they were pretty clean anyway
[18:49:45] <ganzuul> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength
[18:49:46] <SpeedEvil> not if you get glass litter
[18:49:46] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: no, it's going to seriously INCREASE it, because people will wear them in situations where normal people would be wearing shoes. :)
[18:49:54] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: well, yes, that.
[18:49:55] <XXCoder> "
[18:49:55] <XXCoder> beernpizzalover
[18:49:55] <XXCoder> Hardness is actually a measure of a materials resistance to indentation which is not always in direct correlation with its tensile strength.
[18:49:55] <XXCoder> "
[18:50:20] <XXCoder> anyway be back
[18:50:31] <furrywolf> glass is quite common here, and needles are quite common in town...
[18:50:36] <ganzuul> Basalt fibers are pretty rad.
[18:50:52] <SpeedEvil> Stick even a fairly thin rubber on the sole, and you'll greatly reduce penetration
[18:51:16] <furrywolf> and greatly reduce how much of things you step in ends up inside instead of outside.
[18:51:26] <furrywolf> dog poo, people's snot,...
[18:51:27] <SpeedEvil> Also - dogshit
[18:53:03] <furrywolf> and they'll pick up burs, thorns,...
[18:54:56] <SpeedEvil> burrs will work in
[18:55:00] <SpeedEvil> because that's what they do
[18:55:23] <furrywolf> yes
[18:55:32] <furrywolf> on the bottom of your feet. while running.
[18:56:28] * SpeedEvil sighs.
[18:56:32] <SpeedEvil> 'According to the New York Times, his lone felony conviction was "using a computer to lure a minor." In effect, a criminal was convicted of multiple misdemeanors, including sexual penetration of a child, but the biggest penalty he faces is a felony record and years in jail because he used a computer to contact the child, rather than picking her up at a coffee shop, meeting her at a party, or hiring a fifteen-year-old prostitute.
[18:57:27] <SpeedEvil> err
[18:57:41] <SpeedEvil> sorry - thought this was a different channel.
[18:57:49] <furrywolf> ... if the 15 year old was actively acting as a prostitute, I don't feel nearly as bad. if you hold up a sign saying "please fuck me", expect to get fucked. lol
[18:59:08] <SpeedEvil> Rich 18yo vs rich 15yo
[18:59:19] <furrywolf> lol
[19:01:07] <furrywolf> I don't believe in the whole "society made me a drug addict", "society made me homeless", "society made me a whore", etc claims. YOU are responsible for what you do. if you're old enough to work as a prostitute, you're old enough to accept what happens.
[19:01:46] <Tom_itx> no no, it's society's fault
[19:02:17] <malcom2073> And the government should pay for that fault
[19:02:21] <malcom2073> with lots and lots of monies
[19:02:50] <furrywolf> and 3 years is an awfully small age difference to claim it's an offense of any kind.
[19:03:18] <SpeedEvil> To be clear, it was an alleged actual rape, not a statutory one.
[19:03:20] <malcom2073> XXCoder: LinkTube looks like something I've been looking for, for years
[19:03:43] <furrywolf> so he raped a prostitute? that probably has its own law not involving computers.
[19:03:44] <SpeedEvil> But they failed to prove rape, and proved 'luring' of a 15yo vs 18.
[19:03:52] <SpeedEvil> no - not prostitute.
[19:04:04] <SpeedEvil> Two rich kids.
[19:04:27] <furrywolf> your paste ends with "or hiring a fifteen-year-old prostitute." heh
[19:04:30] * SpeedEvil needs to work out where his steppers are.
[19:04:45] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: They'll be in the last place you look
[19:04:59] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: yes, it's confusing, and was using that as a contrast with the actual charge.
[19:09:34] <LatheBuilderShop> PCW, bug report here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/433/
[19:10:39] <LatheBuilderShop> thanks for the fix
[20:02:48] <XXCoder> malcom2073: youre welcome
[21:32:57] <petefromtn> Evening folks
[21:34:13] <XXCoder> hey
[21:34:16] <XXCoder> hows things
[21:37:08] <petefromtn> Going pretty good you?
[21:37:21] <XXCoder> headache but other than that pretty good.
[21:38:05] <petefromtn> Right now I am sitting next to our fire pit in the backyard roasting marshmallows ;)
[21:39:52] <malcom2073> And yet you're still here :P
[21:40:43] <XXCoder> welcome to internet age
[21:40:50] <petefromtn> It's kinda weird when we came out here earlier we got KILLED by mosquitoes so I got out the off spray and setup our backyard bug zapper
[21:42:04] <petefromtn> Came back out after dark and they are all gone now....and they sure as hell are not in our bug zapper
[21:42:26] <XXCoder> they tasted you and died
[21:42:41] <petefromtn> But yeah I am on my smartphone on andchat.
[21:43:09] <petefromtn> Perhaps felt like every one of the bastards got a taste
[21:43:25] <XXCoder> careful or you will cause exication lol
[21:43:41] <XXCoder> weird thing is that so many animals depend on that bastard bugs
[21:43:49] <XXCoder> and by indirect route, us.
[21:44:46] <petefromtn> It is a beautiful night here
[21:45:56] <XXCoder> nice
[21:46:09] <XXCoder> one thing that sucks about living in city is less stars
[21:46:19] <XXCoder> no, famous people stars do not count
[21:46:51] <petefromtn> Right now we have this huge bright full moon so really can't see many stars anyways
[21:50:02] <XXCoder> cool
[22:02:24] <furrywolf> lucky you. I was just outside making things fast for rain.
[22:02:50] <XXCoder> raining here a little
[22:03:03] <XXCoder> nuteral temperate but VERY humid
[22:03:07] <zeeshan> :D
[22:03:19] <furrywolf> here it's too hot and very humid
[22:03:22] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: make lumps yet?
[22:03:22] <XXCoder> finally. its start of "late summer" weather here
[22:04:02] <zeeshan> no
[22:04:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Z2FVf60.png
[22:04:14] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/EgSyzUw.jpg
[22:04:17] <zeeshan> but i did make my coolant tank
[22:04:19] <zeeshan> it works sweeeeeeeet
[22:04:21] <XXCoder> ohhh a still ;)
[22:04:53] <XXCoder> heh zeeshan your shop looks heck different from when I first entered here.
[22:05:12] <XXCoder> still remember your questions about power strip questions and stuff
[22:05:24] <zeeshan> haha
[22:05:51] <zeeshan> i need a way to deal with those hoses
[22:05:58] <zeeshan> i think ill put some P clips
[22:06:00] <zeeshan> but not tighten them
[22:06:04] <zeeshan> just let it act like guides
[22:06:08] <XXCoder> it was before I even started working that place and internship. beem a while.
[22:06:50] <zeeshan> that is a long time ago :P
[22:07:03] <Tom_itx> put a ziptie on the hex bolt on the side to hold em
[22:07:14] <Tom_itx> loosely
[22:07:29] <zeeshan> i dont got that style zip tie
[22:07:34] <zeeshan> got p clips though
[22:07:45] <Tom_itx> so use one of those then
[22:07:59] <zeeshan> didnt i say that :P
[22:08:06] <furrywolf> that tank is way, way overkill for that application. :P
[22:08:13] <zeeshan> why?
[22:08:13] <Tom_itx> wasn't listening
[22:08:23] <zeeshan> i had all the material sitting around
[22:08:26] <zeeshan> i have tons of those tubes
[22:08:27] <Tom_itx> you didn't add weldements to your drawing...
[22:08:45] <zeeshan> yea i changed a couiple things on the fly
[22:09:00] <zeeshan> i added a fill fitting
[22:09:03] <zeeshan> cause i was welding it
[22:09:08] <zeeshan> and im like hmm. how will i fill this
[22:09:08] <zeeshan> lol
[22:09:11] * furrywolf needs a tig welder
[22:09:36] <furrywolf> I'd probably go with an entirely venturi-based system, rather than needing a pressurized tank.
[22:09:41] <zeeshan> do you guys like my super cover
[22:09:46] <zeeshan> to protect my electrical outlet
[22:09:51] <zeeshan> furry
[22:09:54] <zeeshan> it is a venturi system
[22:09:55] <furrywolf> or I'd use a syrup pump or such.
[22:10:01] <zeeshan> that's the shit that causes misting
[22:10:12] <zeeshan> you want to pressurize the tank to stop it from misting
[22:10:17] <zeeshan> and shoot droplets
[22:10:27] <zeeshan> watch the oxtool video i posted a while back
[22:10:41] <furrywolf> http://i.stack.imgur.com/Vx0MW.jpg give hardware store $9. install.
[22:10:58] <zeeshan> how it work
[22:11:05] <zeeshan> is it a completely new box?
[22:11:10] <furrywolf> no.
[22:11:21] <furrywolf> it just screws on over it
[22:11:34] <furrywolf> has foam gaskets in the back
[22:12:24] <zeeshan> name?
[22:12:32] <XXCoder> its definitely effective
[22:12:48] <furrywolf> wet use outlet cover or similar
[22:13:16] <zeeshan> http://www.amazon.com/MM410C-Weatherproof-Outdoor-Receptacle-Protector/dp/B001JEPX44
[22:13:36] <zeeshan> ive never seen that at home depot
[22:13:38] <XXCoder> some come with locks
[22:13:46] <XXCoder> well spot to lock anyway
[22:14:05] <XXCoder> nice if its outdoors and you dont want freeloading
[22:14:21] <zeeshan> thats not good
[22:14:25] <zeeshan> im freeloading
[22:14:27] <furrywolf> they sell them at all hardware stores here...
[22:14:54] <furrywolf> you're supposed to use them on outdoor outlets if you want to be able to plug something in while it's raining.
[22:15:32] <furrywolf> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Red-Dot-1-Gang-Weatherproof-In-Use-Vertical-Box-Cover-CKMUV-R/202077331
[22:15:52] <furrywolf> (not actually loaded - home depot's website is one of the slowest around)
[22:16:12] <furrywolf> that one's ugly. checking others.
[22:16:26] <zeeshan> i like the clear
[22:16:41] <XXCoder> make sure its rated for uv
[22:16:59] <furrywolf> yeah, as I said, it hadn't loaded when I pasted it. heh.
[22:17:06] <furrywolf> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bell-1-Gang-Horizontal-or-Vertical-Weatherproof-Extra-Duty-While-in-Use-Cover-MM420CB/204208077
[22:17:30] <XXCoder> furrywolf: my comment wasnt directly related to your url
[22:17:51] <zeeshan> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/weatherproof-single-gang-gfi-horizontal-pvc-cover-150-white/954740
[22:17:53] <zeeshan> hm
[22:18:28] <zeeshan> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/outdoor-weatherproof-single-gang-while-in-use-horizontal-cover-clear/954731
[22:18:28] <zeeshan> rofl
[22:18:34] <zeeshan> its $17 here
[22:19:03] <furrywolf> the first one you pasted is a flat cover that closes only with no plugs in the outlet
[22:19:34] <furrywolf> god home depot's website sucks.
[22:20:28] <furrywolf> and the .ca search engine is broken. I search for things, then rather than returning a list of results, it takes you directly to an item, unrelated to your search.
[22:20:50] <furrywolf> if I do a search, I want SEARCH RESULTS. fucking duh?
[22:21:08] <zeeshan> yep
[22:21:09] <zeeshan> its pos
[22:22:11] <furrywolf> http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchView?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&langId=-15&N=0&Ntt=while+in+use+cover&Nty=1&D=while+in+use+cover&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&s=true that worked... in-use covers
[22:22:54] <furrywolf> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/outdoor-weatherproof-single-gang-while-in-use-vertical-cover-150-clear/954733
[22:23:39] <zeeshan> faking homedepot
[22:23:42] <zeeshan> almost double the price here
[22:24:12] <furrywolf> probably because they're selling you a US-made one (t&b) while selling us a chinese one.
[22:24:46] <renesis> or they just think canadians are easier to screw
[22:25:29] <furrywolf> no... the ones on the .ca site are all t&b, which is US-made. the ones they're selling here in the US are other brands.
[22:25:55] <XXCoder> nice. you can buy anything that not from your own country
[22:27:03] <furrywolf> I can't seem to find where the ones they're selling here are made.
[22:34:04] <furrywolf> found a review of the outdoor switch cover from the same product line as the outlet cover saying it's made in india.
[22:34:29] <furrywolf> ah, the metal is made in india, the plastic in china.
[22:34:30] <furrywolf> lol
[22:34:41] <furrywolf> and that's why yours costs double.
[22:35:34] <XXCoder> cnt wait for day where 3d printers is everywhere.
[22:35:46] <XXCoder> and evenually replicator of star trek fame
[22:35:58] <furrywolf> so low quality, defective-from-the-moment-it's-conceived plastic goods can become even more widespread?
[22:36:37] <XXCoder> well sure if theres other end
[22:36:40] <XXCoder> the unprinter
[22:36:47] <XXCoder> theres couple designs for that now
[22:36:49] <zeeshan> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090726064455AAoHy8t
[22:36:50] <zeeshan> rofl
[22:36:53] <zeeshan> i love this yahoo post
[22:37:00] <zeeshan> Tungsten metal is not easily attacked by water or oxygen, and although heavy it is very brittle and not generally useful. Tungsten carbide is similarly resistant to chemical attack, but is much harder and stronger, and thus more suitable to be used in tools.
[22:37:05] <zeeshan> specifically the first sentence, second part
[22:37:07] <zeeshan> wow just wow
[22:37:11] <zeeshan> this fucking bastard
[22:37:16] <zeeshan> called tungsten carbide not useful
[22:37:26] <zeeshan> i should slap him / her with a carbide end mill
[22:37:38] <zeeshan> makes me so angry! :P
[22:37:39] <XXCoder> dont forget it
[22:38:06] <furrywolf> no, he/she called tungsten METAL not useful, and called tungsten CARBIDE useful.
[22:38:32] <zeeshan> okay
[22:38:33] <zeeshan> even then
[22:38:38] <furrywolf> just like how reading comprehension is useful. :)
[22:38:38] <XXCoder> tungsten definitely too brittle
[22:38:41] <zeeshan> i should slap him her with a light bulb
[22:38:51] <zeeshan> or some tig tungstens
[22:38:54] <XXCoder> too bad, since if it was bit more ductable it would be useful indeed
[22:38:58] <furrywolf> light bulbs aren't useful. they're borderline illegal here, in fact. :P
[22:39:02] <zeeshan> furrywolf: shut your mouf
[22:39:11] <zeeshan> let me be mad
[22:39:36] <XXCoder> I think 60W light bulbs (insecent type) is about to get banned soon
[22:39:40] <XXCoder> or already?
[22:39:47] <furrywolf> because being mad at forum posts from forums you're not even signed up on is useful. :P
[22:39:50] <zeeshan> already banned here
[22:39:55] <furrywolf> XXCoder: already
[22:40:10] <zeeshan> but halogens arent illegal
[22:40:16] <zeeshan> :P
[22:40:33] <furrywolf> the latest batch of low-cost LED lamps are pretty impressive.
[22:40:34] <XXCoder> zeeshan: its more effecient thats why
[22:40:43] <furrywolf> I even put one in the light on my mill. :P
[22:40:49] <XXCoder> furrywolf: agreed! my room is all led lit
[22:40:51] <zeeshan> you know what else is low cost?
[22:40:54] <zeeshan> furrywolf
[22:40:58] <XXCoder> whoo
[22:41:01] <XXCoder> nice insult
[22:41:02] <furrywolf> no, I'm expensive. :P
[22:41:05] <zeeshan> :P
[22:41:32] <zeeshan> do you run led bulbs at your place?
[22:41:37] <zeeshan> ive started swapping em
[22:41:37] <furrywolf> Costco has 1600lm 15W (or 15.5, don't remember) led lamps for $12, and they seem to perform excellently.
[22:41:38] <furrywolf> yes
[22:41:58] <zeeshan> yea but if you compare that to regular incadescent
[22:42:04] <furrywolf> led lamps have now gotten to where you can get more light from a fixture using led than you can with incandesent.
[22:42:05] <zeeshan> thats like 6 times the cost
[22:42:06] <XXCoder> yeah got 3 led lights at garage, love em
[22:42:22] <zeeshan> yes
[22:42:25] <zeeshan> thats what i like about led myself
[22:42:28] <zeeshan> they're brighter
[22:42:39] <zeeshan> the 15W is stupid bright
[22:42:47] <zeeshan> but i like the soft white version of it
[22:42:56] <zeeshan> i cant stand pure white light -- it feels like a hospital
[22:42:59] <furrywolf> yes, I only buy soft white.
[22:43:02] <XXCoder> theres new invention that lights special plastic up, but so far silent. maybe failed to go to market
[22:43:04] <furrywolf> "pure" white is bullshit marketing.
[22:43:12] <zeeshan> well you know what i mean
[22:43:14] <XXCoder> too bad since its solid plastic its nice for stuff like car lighting
[22:43:15] <furrywolf> it's their way of selling you the rejects. :P
[22:43:18] <zeeshan> white like paper
[22:43:20] <zeeshan> so ugly
[22:43:48] <furrywolf> LED has higher upfront cost, but much lower lifetime cost for all but the least frequently used fixtures.
[22:44:41] <XXCoder> ohh new news on plastic light
http://www.businessinsider.com/fipel-lighting-technology-david-carroll-wake-forrest-2013-1
[22:44:43] <zeeshan> just gotta be careful though
[22:44:43] <XXCoder> been a while!
[22:44:46] <zeeshan> cause of the built in heatsink
[22:44:51] <zeeshan> you cant use em in certain flex lamps
[22:44:55] <zeeshan> cause theyre too heavy
[22:47:10] <furrywolf> let's say the 15W LED and 100W incandescent are equivalent in functionality and use. One costs $12, the other $0.30. But, one costs, at $0.11/kwh, $1.10 to run for 100 hours, while the other only costs $0.17 for that same 100 hours. That's a savings of $0.94 per 100 hours. After 1250 hours, the LED bulb has paid for itself just in electricity savings.
[22:47:40] <zeeshan> after 1250 hours the led bulb got hit by a broken drill bit
[22:47:43] <zeeshan> =[
[22:47:58] <XXCoder> indeed. oh early era I knew led bulbs would never pay itself off, I bought 3 40W lights at $60 each lol
[22:48:20] <XXCoder> so expensive but was so worth it. I still have em and theyre around 8 years old now
[22:48:29] <furrywolf> And then you get into lifespan... the LED bulb lasts about 20,000 hours, vs the incandescent 2,000 hours. So it's not $0.30, it's $3, or more, as you have to replace it ten times, with the labor of getting out a ladder, unscrewing the globe, dropping it on your feet and smashing it to pointy glass bits, etc.
[22:48:53] <zeeshan> lol
[22:48:59] <zeeshan> it takes 2 seconds to change a lgiht bulb
[22:49:01] <XXCoder> theres light bulbs thats over 100 years old but they are exception, AND barely generate light anyway.
[22:49:03] <zeeshan> :P
[22:49:11] <furrywolf> And, these are VERY conservative numbers. the led lamp should last longer than 20,000 hours, and bulbs are now closer to $3/each rather than $1/4-pack like they were before the bans started...
[22:49:15] <zeeshan> but i now what you mean
[22:49:22] <furrywolf> XXCoder: yes, there's an IR heater that's been running 100 years. :P
[22:49:27] <zeeshan> led's should last 100,000 hours
[22:49:28] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:49:31] <zeeshan> if pulsed
[22:49:49] <XXCoder> zeeshan: well scaling it would glow 1/4 as bright by 100k hours
[22:49:51] <furrywolf> should isn't do. in enclosed fixtures, they tend to run too hot for long lifespan.
[22:50:08] <XXCoder> thats why lifetime it should be 50k average for no noticable difference
[22:50:11] <zeeshan> well internet says 50,000 hours
[22:50:17] <furrywolf> also, if your house is entirely bare-bulb fixtures, it's probably not a very pleasant place. :P
[22:50:24] <XXCoder> zeeshan: exactly.
[22:50:36] <XXCoder> after 50k it slowly gets dimmer
[22:50:51] <furrywolf> I used very conservative numbers. the more you talk, the stronger you're making my argument. :P
[22:50:51] <XXCoder> it does get slightly dim at first 50k hours but like I said not too noticable.
[22:51:27] <zeeshan> only suckers use leds
[22:51:34] <zeeshan> real mean use incadescent bulbs
[22:51:38] <furrywolf> for a frequently-used fixture, the LED lamp can save hundreds of dollars over its life.
[22:51:38] <zeeshan> *men
[22:51:52] <furrywolf> good thing I don't tend to call myself a man, real or otherwise. :P
[22:51:57] <XXCoder> I'm real man using leds
[22:52:20] <zeeshan> they need to ban cfl bulbs too
[22:52:25] <zeeshan> that shit is toxic
[22:52:33] <zeeshan> theres no reason to have em now
[22:52:34] <XXCoder> yes
[22:52:41] <XXCoder> transition is starting
[22:52:46] <XXCoder> costco has banned em now
[22:52:50] <XXCoder> or was it IKEA
[22:52:54] <XXCoder> IKEA definitely
[22:53:11] <XXCoder> ikea now supplies only led lighting system
[22:53:20] <furrywolf> looking at
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/100-watt-standard-shape-light-bulbs/ , most 100W lamps are in the 1000lm range, substantially dimmer than the 1600lm lamps being sold to replace them.
[22:53:41] <zeeshan> i need to buy regular light bulbs
[22:53:45] <zeeshan> so i can show my kids
[22:53:48] <furrywolf> my experience is they are, indeed, brighter.
[22:53:54] <XXCoder> furrywolf: man that is dim for 100w
[22:54:17] <furrywolf> XXCoder: the highest they have is 1530lm, most are a lot dimmer.
[22:54:28] <zeeshan> did i tell you guys
[22:54:34] <zeeshan> i found 20+ regulators in the dumpster?
[22:54:39] <zeeshan> some of them are 5000 psi
[22:54:45] <zeeshan> the one on the mill is a dumpster find too
[22:54:49] <zeeshan> stupid university
[22:54:51] <zeeshan> throws everything out
[22:54:54] <XXCoder> damn
[22:55:02] <zeeshan> i dunno what im gonna do with all of em
[22:55:04] <XXCoder> if you ever get complete cnc in trash
[22:55:12] <XXCoder> get it to work lol
[22:55:14] <zeeshan> i doubt that :P
[22:55:17] <zeeshan> maybe in 20 years
[22:55:18] <zeeshan> haha
[22:55:28] <zeeshan> i dont think theyd ever throw that
[22:55:32] <zeeshan> cause they cant pick it up
[22:55:42] <furrywolf> you also can put a lot more lumens in a fixture... most ceiling fixtures here are only rated for 60W incandescent bulbs, to avoid damaging the wiring/burning down the house/etc. but you can put in a 15W LED lamp, use a quarter the power, while putting out DOUBLE the light you could safely get with incandescents.
[22:55:49] <zeeshan> i also got a hot plate and thermocouple probe
[22:55:55] <zeeshan> the hot plate has a switch called MOT on it
[22:55:59] <zeeshan> but not sure wtf thats for
[22:56:07] <furrywolf> motorized stirrer?
[22:56:16] <furrywolf> for one of the magnet pills
[22:56:17] <zeeshan> maybe
[22:56:26] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah my alarm clock is rated for 120w, I used to use 2 60w lights but now I can make sun show up in my room using 120w.
[22:56:26] <zeeshan> i dont have a cable to power it up with
[22:56:30] <zeeshan> it uses the weird style iec cable
[22:56:49] <furrywolf> weird in what way?
[22:57:00] <zeeshan> iec c15
[22:57:11] <zeeshan> http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/synergy-link-uploads/IEC-C15.png
[22:57:16] <zeeshan> i dont own any of those syle
[22:57:44] <furrywolf> utility knife.
[22:57:50] <zeeshan> ??
[22:58:02] <furrywolf> the plug is the same except it has a notch. add a notch. :P
[22:58:09] <zeeshan> lol
[22:58:43] <zeeshan> ill grab one from surplus
[22:58:46] <zeeshan> i wanna put a 14awg on this
[22:58:55] <zeeshan> regular ones are 18
[22:59:11] <furrywolf> 16 is common here... you can find 14s for copiers, laser printers, etc.
[22:59:23] <furrywolf> I think UL stopped approving 18 gauge cords at some point.
[22:59:36] <furrywolf> unless they have a fuse built into the plug or something stupid like that
[23:00:09] <zeeshan> ah
[23:00:15] <zeeshan> i remember i eneded a hotplate for something
[23:00:16] <zeeshan> but i forgot what
[23:00:17] <zeeshan> :P
[23:00:25] <zeeshan> so i grabbedit
[23:00:28] <furrywolf> cooking meth! :P
[23:00:36] <zeeshan> there was a vacuum pump in there too
[23:00:36] <XXCoder> yummy
[23:00:38] <zeeshan> 2hp
[23:00:42] <XXCoder> got that too?
[23:00:44] <zeeshan> no
[23:00:47] <zeeshan> too heavy
[23:00:50] <zeeshan> didnt know what i would use it for
[23:00:51] <XXCoder> why? oh too bad
[23:00:53] <zeeshan> it was like 100lb
[23:00:58] <XXCoder> you can make neon lights with it
[23:01:03] <zeeshan> haha
[23:01:13] <XXCoder> you need good vacuum for that
[23:01:15] <zeeshan> i have a vac pump already :P
[23:01:19] <XXCoder> oh
[23:01:21] <zeeshan> but its not 2hp
[23:01:29] <zeeshan> i think this one gets very close to absolute vacuum
[23:01:30] <zeeshan> mine doesn't
[23:01:48] <furrywolf> REALLY close to absolute vacuum doesn't have motors. :P
[23:02:03] <zeeshan> shrug
[23:02:07] <zeeshan> i didnt pay much attention to it :P
[23:02:15] <XXCoder> I remember reading about something that ionizes air inside then sweeps it out for damn near vacuum
[23:02:16] <zeeshan> one day ill take a pic of the dumpster
[23:02:21] <zeeshan> you'll see what kind of shit universities throw away
[23:02:30] <zeeshan> brand new trasnformers
[23:02:32] <zeeshan> in packaging..
[23:02:33] <XXCoder> zeeshan: ones I attend dont have dump
[23:02:41] <furrywolf> one here doesn't have technology.
[23:02:41] <zeeshan> when i say dump
[23:02:44] <XXCoder> *attended
[23:02:47] <zeeshan> i mean metal scrap bin
[23:03:01] <zeeshan> i don't care if im making a million bucks
[23:03:11] <zeeshan> nothing beats the thrill of scrap metal dumpster diving
[23:03:13] <zeeshan> its a lot of fun
[23:03:17] <zeeshan> i suggest finding one :P
[23:03:18] <furrywolf> they offer no technology classes beyond introductory computing. no engineering, no science that needs modern equipment, etc.
[23:03:47] <zeeshan> my prof was throwing away a lot of old punches
[23:03:48] <XXCoder> zeeshan: as soon as I have real reason - aka having actual machine that can mill em
[23:03:50] <zeeshan> like 5" diameter
[23:04:01] <zeeshan> was thinking of using it, but they were 56Hrc hardness
[23:04:03] <zeeshan> so pointless
[23:04:12] <zeeshan> XXCoder: you dont need a machine to dumpster dive
[23:04:18] <zeeshan> you can find all sorts of cool stuff there
[23:04:30] <zeeshan> like seriously this regulator i got on there
[23:04:31] <XXCoder> yeah still need other skills like engineering :)
[23:04:33] <zeeshan> is$50 at the store
[23:04:35] <zeeshan> for free!
[23:04:44] <XXCoder> $50 * 22 dang
[23:04:46] <zeeshan> on the mill i men
[23:05:10] <furrywolf> no scrap metal dumpsters here, because there's no industry here.
[23:05:27] <zeeshan> go to uc berkley
[23:05:31] <zeeshan> im sure they throw a lot of stuff :P
[23:05:38] <zeeshan> trick is to go during summer
[23:05:58] <furrywolf> you're apparantly not familiar with california geography. that's like 7 hours from here. more if you go between 6am and 9pm. :P
[23:06:19] <zeeshan> i just know california is the shoe of america
[23:06:38] <renesis> end of the world
[23:06:45] <XXCoder> nah its butt of usa, other end is front end. fla is penis of usa
[23:06:46] <furrywolf> ?
[23:06:51] <renesis> if you made it here and arent happy, you prob not gonna be happy anywhere
[23:07:11] <furrywolf> hrmm, that would explain who most floridians are pricks...
[23:07:13] <renesis> furrywolf: in terms of western exploration, california is like the end of the world, the far west
[23:07:16] <furrywolf> s/who/why
[23:07:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: at least you don't sleep with your sister our cousins
[23:07:34] <renesis> also in modern culture, its where people go to like, i dunno, find themselves or be someone, or some shit
[23:07:34] <zeeshan> *your
[23:08:25] <furrywolf> renesis: you mean "do coke".
[23:09:45] <renesis> i just like having hollywood like, 20 minutes that way, beautiful beaches like 45min the other way, immediate access to some of the most famous canyons driving in the world, mad jobs, awesome cars everywhere
[23:10:01] <renesis> and yeah furrywolf, a lot of those non natives do come here and do lots of coke
[23:10:33] <furrywolf> aren't the beaches there dirty, unpleasant, too hot, and covered in stupid people?
[23:10:45] <renesis> naw i go to el matador and leo carillo in LA
[23:11:01] <renesis> county line, stupid people mostly in santa monica and at zuma
[23:11:07] <renesis> i like venice tho
[23:11:17] * furrywolf always sees photos of beaches down there lined with people on blankets
[23:11:20] <renesis> plenty of stupid but its a colorful and entertaining stupid
[23:11:31] <renesis> right thats zuma in the summer
[23:11:44] <furrywolf> up here you can go to the beach and not see another person. clothes are optional most everywhere.
[23:11:59] <renesis> http://www.daytrippen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/leo-carillo-beach.jpg
[23:12:06] <renesis> thats where i go
[23:12:26] <furrywolf> there's two beaches popular with families where going nude might result in a "won't someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN?!" idiot, the rest no one cares.
[23:12:33] <renesis> theres a little cave that connects the far beach in that to one behind the life tower rocks
[23:12:50] <renesis> theres a scene in the usual suspects filmed there, when theyre buring benicio del toro
[23:13:01] <renesis> burying? shrug
[23:13:04] <furrywolf> my brat saw a nipple! now she's scarred for life and will grow up mentally unstable in a fashion that has nothing to do with her parenting!
[23:13:32] <renesis> well, its like almost two hours drive, but off of gaviota state beach there is like 20 miles of private undeveloped coast
[23:14:20] <renesis> you can take the road to right where it becomes private, hop over train tracks, across grassy field, along sandstone clif, down little canyon, then you have to climb down a 15 foot cliff
[23:14:36] <renesis> usually there is a rop tied to a rock on top i dont trust the rope, diff rope every time
[23:15:01] <renesis> then at low tide, you can get to the next beach over, which cant be hiked into because 30 ft cliffs
[23:15:13] <renesis> but yeah, nothing like the beaches where you live
[23:15:29] <renesis> thats just a whole other scale of jezus fuck omfg
[23:16:19] <furrywolf> lol
[23:16:20] <renesis> there a part of the 1 or the 101 on a cliff, i walked to the edge of the road to pee, and theres like, 10ft off grass and shrubs, and then the ocean looking like 200 ft away, barely make out any waves
[23:16:36] <renesis> i dont think i finished peeing before slowly backing away
[23:17:05] <renesis> it doesnt get crazy like that until around monterey
[23:17:24] <renesis> socal shit is very small scale, similar but high tide youre not so fucked
[23:17:37] <renesis> upper central cal, norcal, you just die
[23:17:59] <renesis> beach is like NOM NOM NOM ITS MADE OUT OF PEOPLE YAY NOM NOM
[23:18:18] <renesis> get eaten by the crazy red flashing squid
[23:19:06] <renesis> oh damn i guess they come from down here
[23:19:16] <renesis> furrywolf: sorry we gave you very bad squid
[23:19:22] <furrywolf> lol
[23:20:24] <XXCoder> better that than crabs :P
[23:22:30] <furrywolf> XXCoder: if you want to see starts, build a telescope that can take pictures like
https://regmedia.co.uk/2015/08/27/twin_jet_nebula.jpg?x=648&y=387&infer_y=1
[23:22:42] <furrywolf> stars
[23:22:56] <renesis> i was in LA for pleides meteor shower this year
[23:22:58] <renesis> so lame
[23:23:03] <renesis> saw three over two nights
[23:27:32] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
