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[02:13:38] <Deejay> moin
[06:25:13] <Wolf_Mill> morning
[06:28:42] <XXCoder> yo
[07:03:34] <Wolf_Mill> i'm really tempted to put a laser crosshair setup on my mill...
[07:13:18] <malcom2073> zeeshan
[07:14:21] <malcom2073> zeeshan:
https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11221721_1121252321222481_8509506659779026444_n.jpg?oh=116c830b4436a849340d64212eac5876&oe=5668BA7A
[07:14:31] <malcom2073> Glass encoder wheel is broken :/
[07:14:55] <archivist_herron> so fix it!
[07:15:04] <malcom2073> However, it is *entirely* possible, that the chip is the reason why this motor was off the machine, a "spare"
[07:15:18] <malcom2073> Erm
[07:15:28] <malcom2073> I guess it could be replaced with a laser cut steel wheel?
[07:15:54] <malcom2073> That gap is *really* tiny though
[07:16:44] <malcom2073> How do they make those metal flimsy encoder wheels with really small slots? Laser?
[07:17:30] <chrisn_> I dont think you will be able replace that with anything other than a mirror
[07:17:31] <Wolf_Mill> probably, might be able to use pcb ectching methods to make a new glass one also
[07:18:14] <malcom2073> chrisn_: You can't really see it in the picture, but that wheel has a couple thousand "slots" around it, it's an optical encoder wheel. The mirror finish is on the outside, the unused side
[07:19:42] <malcom2073> I wonder if I couldn't just replace the encoder entirely with a different one
[07:20:10] <Wolf_Mill> i was just thinking that, does the resolution need to be the same as the wheel thats on it?
[07:20:30] <chrisn_> maybe there is some other dead motors on the market?
[07:20:32] <malcom2073> Nope, My drives can take almost any resolution, just have to work that into the calculations
[07:20:40] <malcom2073> chrisn_: Dead motors of this variety go on ebay for $250+
[07:20:45] <chrisn_> ouch
[07:20:48] <malcom2073> Yeah heh
[07:20:57] <malcom2073> Like I said though, this is a spare
[07:22:10] <malcom2073> Was going to use it to test these drivers though and figure them out without having to sit in the garage heh
[07:22:16] <malcom2073> May have to actually dismount a motor from the machine for testing
[07:22:54] <malcom2073> But! I can use this one to figure out which wires are which on teh encoder, since a good portion of it is still good and usable
[07:23:26] <chrisn_> it will give you a reading for 300degrees?
[07:23:58] <chrisn_> approx
[07:24:42] <chrisn_> and what happens when the sensor hits the broken portion?
[07:25:14] <Wolf_Mill> probably read it as a really long open pulse and jump
[07:25:45] <malcom2073> Yeah I don't know, but for manually turning it it won't much matter
[07:25:51] <malcom2073> I'll just keep it in the good portion heh
[07:28:58] <Wolf_Mill> speaking of glass things, I discovered the hard way last night that my cheap china digital caliper had a real glass lcd lens
[07:29:30] <Bushman> ave
[07:30:58] <Bushman> guys, i need to find out if and how can i effectively zero one axis counter and don't touch the rest from gcode
[07:33:07] <_methods> g10
[07:33:22] <_methods> or g92
[07:33:41] <_methods> pick your poison
[07:35:13] <Bushman> i had no luck with g10 so i'll give 92 a go
[07:37:25] <Bushman> yes, that would be equivalent to me manually clicking touch off and that's what i wanted.
[07:37:30] <Bushman> _methods: thanks!
[07:41:25] <cradek> no, clicking touchoff gives g10 l20 ...
[07:41:45] <cradek> g92 is a different offset
[07:44:09] <Bushman> well, this works for me cause what i basically need is to reset the A rotary axis counter back to 0 at the start of the program
[07:44:29] <Bushman> i had to add this to Slic3r for printing using my CNC machine
[07:45:16] <Bushman> if i forgot to reset the counter manually the thing was trying to "rewind" 7m of milament XD
[07:45:25] <Bushman> *filament
[07:45:34] <archivist> malcom2073, the steel encoder disk as photo etched
[07:45:42] <archivist> as/are
[07:45:57] <malcom2073> archivist: Hmm, makes sense
[07:46:05] <archivist> adapt and fit any normal encoder
[07:46:10] <Bushman> it doesn't really matter if it's 7m or 7mm. the print would be borked anyway cause the filament would be evacuated from the head and could jam
[07:47:30] <_methods> personally i'd look for a solution using g10 before i used g92
[07:47:40] <_methods> but if you're the only person using it then g92 away
[07:48:38] <Bushman> heh, it's a home-made rig.
[07:49:19] <Bushman> my dad tried to use it but failed miserably (he's not cnc savvy)
[07:49:26] <Bushman> so yea, i'm the only one using it
[07:49:47] <Bushman> but i'll take a look at G10L20 too
[07:50:33] <Bushman> ahh... yes.
[07:51:15] <Bushman> _methods: g10 l20 p0 a0 was what i needed
[07:51:28] <Bushman> i was one '0' off the target XD
[07:51:38] <Bushman> l2 instead of l20
[07:52:02] <Bushman> _methods: thanks again ;]
[08:03:39] <_methods> np
[08:11:33] <Wolf_Mill> really wishing I had a spring loaded tap guide right about now...
[08:12:10] <archivist> better get the rigid tapping sorted
[08:12:41] <Wolf_Mill> ha, I wish, not happening on the x1
[08:14:48] <archivist> automatic tapping heads for drill presses are next best
[08:19:19] <Wolf_Mill> think I got something that sorta works, more ghetto rigging
http://i.imgur.com/GyW7OyE.jpg
[08:20:50] <archivist> not going fast enough to need the vacuum cleaner :)
[08:21:02] <malcom2073> I've used a tap like that before :-D
[08:21:32] <malcom2073> Actually just a week ago, to tap a hole in my lathe tool changer
[08:21:43] <Wolf_Mill> lol, yeah, didnt bother to move the vac hose, really need to mod some plumbing fittings so I can use some locline
[08:21:46] <malcom2073> We used an old drill bit to center it though :-D
[08:22:37] <archivist> I do that often when starting a tap on the lathe
[08:27:48] <Wolf_Mill> real fun part is I need to cut a 19.5mm radius relief for the stepper in these mount plates...
[08:34:26] <archivist> offset in the 4 jaw easy
[08:35:00] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, much as I'm avoiding it, lathe work lol
[08:35:57] <Wolf_Mill> only because swapping the chucks is a pain in the ass on the little lathe
[08:35:57] <archivist> rotary table and 4 jaw in the mill :)
[08:39:28] <Wolf_Mill> i may just set the rotary up :)
[08:39:43] <Wolf_Mill> dont think I need the 4jaw on it
[08:48:45] <zeeshan> i like your vacuum attachment
[08:48:46] <zeeshan> :P
[08:48:52] <zeeshan> i think ill do that for my mill too
[08:48:54] <zeeshan> for the wood crap
[08:49:19] <Wolf_Mill> hehe, its a temp setup, I have 3/4
[08:49:26] <Wolf_Mill> 3/4" loc-line
[08:49:27] <zeeshan> malcom2073: that is not mimicable
[08:49:56] <zeeshan> those gratings like a couple micron apart :P
[08:50:03] <malcom2073> Haha yeah they're tiny
[08:50:10] <malcom2073> I figured I'd probably have to replace the entire encoder
[08:50:11] <zeeshan> to the point it looks solid to my ewyes :P
[08:50:19] <malcom2073> It looks solid to my eyes even in person
[08:50:21] <zeeshan> yea you can replace with us encoders rtype
[08:50:29] <zeeshan> or anything else that'll fit easily
[08:50:41] <zeeshan> did you test the motors?
[08:50:45] <malcom2073> I have some 3600 count encoders I can stick one on
[08:50:47] <malcom2073> I did! It spins at 12V :)
[08:51:00] <malcom2073> Just a solid 12v supply, nothing logical
[08:51:07] <malcom2073> Well I tested this one
[08:53:14] <zeeshan> sweet :)
[08:53:20] <zeeshan> just check the continuity
[08:53:27] <zeeshan> between the power leads and anywhere on the metal case
[08:53:40] <zeeshan> to make sure there are no shorts so you dont get shocked when you give it high voltage
[08:54:09] <malcom2073> Hah yeah
[08:54:34] <malcom2073> I have a 46VDC supply I'm going to be using to test this stuff until I get my 80V sorted
[08:55:30] <malcom2073> I've figured out power/ground for the encoder by tracing wires to the chips and looking at datasheets, I need to power it up and check which lines are the quadrature +/-, and the index
[08:55:53] <malcom2073> My Logic analyzer weighs 50lbs though and I'm too lazy to go get it out of the basement this morning
[08:56:19] <zeeshan> how does one fuck up
[08:56:21] <zeeshan> that disk like that?
[08:56:25] <zeeshan> did someone have this apart
[08:56:38] <malcom2073> It was sealed pretty good, my guess is they dropped it
[08:56:45] <malcom2073> Just the shock did that I guess
[08:57:10] <Wolf_Mill> was the glass broke or did the coating just come off of it?
[08:57:18] <zeeshan> looks like coating fell off
[08:57:19] <malcom2073> glass is broke
[08:57:22] <zeeshan> oh
[08:57:23] <malcom2073> a chunk is off
[08:57:30] <malcom2073> about 1/4 of the thickness
[08:57:42] <Wolf_Mill> impressive
[08:57:52] <malcom2073> Yeah heh
[08:58:14] <malcom2073> Encoders are easy, I have some high res ones so I'm not worried, and this is the spare anyway
[08:58:18] <malcom2073> so I can tinker with it to figure it out
[09:00:55] <zeeshan> phew
[09:00:59] <zeeshan> the stock markets are picking up again
[09:01:01] <zeeshan> from where they dropped
[09:01:05] <malcom2073> Woot
[09:01:21] <zeeshan> we're half way back to where we dropped
[09:01:23] <zeeshan> F china
[09:04:09] * Wolf_Mill grumbles
[09:04:26] * Wolf_Mill gets the 4 jaw back out for the lathe
[09:05:10] <malcom2073> zeeshan: On the bright side, these motors go for $200+ on ebay, used and broken
[09:05:36] <malcom2073> So if I decide to cash out and go steppers, I can make good bank
[09:11:45] <Wolf_Mill> doh, thats not going to work
[09:12:28] <Loetmichel2> *pant* *phew*... sounding like a steam engine atm... putting 50+ meters of cat 7 in the cable try unter the ceiling at 4 meters height is quitee a bit work... not because of the cable weight but because of me running up the ladder, 2 meters, running down the ladder, shift the ladeder, running back up...
[09:12:46] <Loetmichel2> ..... i should lose a few 10 pounds i think ;)
[09:20:46] * Loetmichel2 is drenched in sweat... and still have to gop a level up and 20 meters back to the router... to connect the fiber modem to it... so we get hispeed net ;-)
[09:46:04] <ssi> morn
[10:09:18] <Jymmm> Loetmichel2: speed kills ;)
[10:13:13] <t12> http://www.datacomtools.com/store/06186.html
[10:26:43] <Loetmichel2> Jymmm: speed doesent kill you. suddenly becoming stationary is what gets you. (c) jeremy clacson
[10:26:47] <Loetmichel2> clarcson
[10:26:53] <blib> http://shop.ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner - an interesting machine :)
[10:27:50] <malcom2073> Haha, media whore that Cody Wilson is
[11:26:59] <Loetmichel2> sooo... back at home. and because boss whined last monday about us being late all the time i will work from 8 to 5 now for a while... lets see when he notices that the work doesent get done in time anymore... because noone is there til 7 or so ;)
[11:27:20] <ssi> lol good work
[11:27:33] <ssi> I'm really fed up with short sighted management at the moment
[11:27:40] <archivist> I reminded boss of going home time when he moaned bout lateness
[11:28:10] <Loetmichel2> i will remind him by action
[11:28:25] <Loetmichel2> simply dropping the tools at 17:00 and going home ;)
[11:28:28] <ssi> you can have employees that focus their attention on getting work done, or you can have employees that focus their attention on maintaining compliance with policies
[11:29:41] <Loetmichel2> he is right that i usually arrive at the company somehere between 8:15 and 09:00. but thats the reason you could find me at the company at 1800 most of the time, even at 1900 sometimes
[11:30:05] <Loetmichel2> he'll see if 8 to five is better ;)
[11:30:18] <ssi> yeah you can't have it both ways
[11:32:04] <Wolf_Mill> not sure if genius or lazy
http://i.imgur.com/oRQ1RQe.jpg :)
[11:32:05] <CaptHindsight> nah, it's not supposed to be sane, you're supposed to follow simple rules similar to what's trained in elementary school like arrive by 8:00 am and also jump when they say jump
[11:32:11] <Loetmichel2> and because he also whined about "forgotten" weekly time sheets... he will now see every minute overtime on them.. usually i simply "forget" to write them when i did overtime
[11:33:12] <Loetmichel2> Wolf_Mill: both. genius and lazy is no contradiction, merely the second is the source of the first
[11:33:49] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: effective people put laziness to work
[11:33:55] <ssi> ineffective people put laziness in front of the television
[11:34:10] <malcom2073> Heh, we get hassled if we don't enter 0 in our timesheet in the morning, put in 4 hours at lunch, and the last 4 at the end of the day
[11:34:11] <malcom2073> It's halarious
[11:34:26] <Wolf_Mill> :) seems I did forget to math somewhere
http://i.imgur.com/tf2f7lU.jpg ... fuck
[11:34:41] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Difference between lazy and ingenious: Working smarter, not harder :P
[11:34:49] <malcom2073> hahaha
[11:34:50] <malcom2073> Nice
[11:34:58] <Loetmichel2> malcom2073: that would not work
[11:34:59] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: just make a thicker coupler disc
[11:35:10] <Loetmichel2> toda i made my lunch break at 1300
[11:35:16] <Loetmichel2> yesterday at 1500
[11:35:27] <malcom2073> Loetmichel2: It doesn't work for us either, but we still enter our time halfway through the day :-P
[11:35:28] <Loetmichel2> and monday at 1200 where it should be ;)
[11:35:51] <CaptHindsight> can you save up a year of lunch and take a week off instead?
[11:36:13] <Loetmichel2> CaptHindsight: if i dont do lunch i go home at 1600 ;)
[11:36:24] <ssi> yeah that's what I'd be doing
[11:36:40] <ssi> showing up at 08:00:00, skipping lunch, and dropping tools at 16:00:00
[11:36:52] <Loetmichel2> and no, officially you HAVE to make 15 min breakfast break and 45 min lunch break by law in germany
[11:36:59] <ssi> next morning, bright and early, spend 30 minutes trying to figure out where you were the prior day
[11:37:34] <Loetmichel2> so you cant do without 2 breaks when an offical gets the notion of that both the employer and the employee get some heat
[11:37:45] <CaptHindsight> as long as the work gets done in the amount of time required and you're willing to accept whatever the pay is, isn't anything else just manipulation?
[11:38:45] <JT-Shop> is it possible to turn on an output at certain parts of a move like G1 X60 somehow turn on the output for a 1/4" every 6"?
[11:38:55] <Loetmichel2> those laws are in effect to protect the workers
[11:39:19] <ssi> ok so which of these MLA kits should I order in the first batch
[11:39:22] <ssi> gonna get the die filer for sure
[11:39:35] <ssi> thinking about his boring/facing head
[11:39:40] <ssi> http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/
[11:39:45] <ssi> I kinda want almost everything he makes
[11:39:45] <CaptHindsight> do they still have laws in Germany to protect workers? Most of that is ancient history in the US
[11:40:07] <Loetmichel2> CaptHindsight they do
[11:40:45] <Loetmichel2> you cant work longer than 10 hours a day (12h once a week if you dont exeed the 40 hrs weekly)
[11:40:58] <Loetmichel2> and such stuff
[11:41:20] <Loetmichel2> you are entitled to at least 24 days of paid vacation a year
[11:41:48] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel2: one of the way to get around the laws here is to hire people as part time, you just hire more of them
[11:41:53] <Loetmichel2> company has to provide adequate personal safety gear for the job and so on
[11:41:59] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, I could see writing a comp for it..
[11:42:38] <Loetmichel2> CaptHindsight: no way around that
[11:42:48] <Loetmichel2> so the rules apply also "part time"
[11:42:50] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel2: it works for most unskilled jobs like retail sales, drivers, etc
[11:43:05] <JT-Shop> I was thinking of that but I need it to all be in G code unless a comp could read G code
[11:43:07] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[11:43:30] <Loetmichel2> so if you have a 50% worker he is still entitled to 24 days of vacation a year
[11:43:38] <Loetmichel2> if he works 4 hours a day
[11:43:52] <skunkworks> it could with m61-64 or whatever
[11:44:08] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel2: here, they don't get any benefits, no vacation, insurance etc
[11:44:15] <Loetmichel2> if he works 8 hiurs and less days a week he gets 12 days off but only the days that he normaly works count ;)
[11:44:28] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel2: so it cheaper and easier since they are also disposable
[11:44:42] <Loetmichel2> yeah, no such thing here
[11:44:47] <CaptHindsight> yet
[11:44:57] <CaptHindsight> :)
[11:45:57] <roycroft> if you're a part-time worker in the us you get time off to eat your porridge every once in a while - unpaid of course
[11:46:00] <JT-Shop> let me try that on the plasma to see how smooth the motion is
[11:46:31] <malcom2073> I'm part time, and yeah I get pretty much zip, no vacation, no insurance, no benefits etc
[11:47:09] <malcom2073> But the pay makes it worth it
[11:47:10] <roycroft> our corporate environment here makes us workers yearn for the glory days of feudalism
[11:47:29] <Loetmichel2> even if you have one of the dreaded "<=400 eur" jobs in germany you are still entiltled to all benefits a fulltime guy gets
[11:47:56] <Loetmichel2> and even all socieal insureances are paid (by the employer as a fixed sum monthly)
[11:49:19] <Loetmichel2> one reason why i have 2800 eur a month before tax and get 1456 eur a month after tax on my account ;)
[11:50:06] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: maybe a comp and a gcode for "start motion synced output" and "stop motion synced output"
[11:50:09] <roycroft> and in the us those benefits of full time workers are basically that you're required to work full time
[11:50:11] <roycroft> and nothing else
[11:51:51] <Loetmichel2> benefits as in paid vaacation, unemployment insurance, health insurance, retirement insureance, even a "pflegeversicherung" (old age care insurance)
[11:52:09] <Loetmichel2> ... all of them roughly split between employer and employee
[11:52:17] <roycroft> what is "paid vacation"?
[11:52:23] <Loetmichel2> unless you are "400eur or less"
[11:52:24] <CaptHindsight> what? No free cellphones!
[11:52:27] <pcw_home> (where motion synced is streamed data)
[11:52:28] <roycroft> that may be a uk term, but it does not translate to american english
[11:52:43] <pcw_home> motion synced output I mean
[11:53:28] <Loetmichel2> roycroft: you are entitled to at LEAST 24 days a year of vacation and STILL get your salary
[11:53:39] <Loetmichel2> ... in germany
[11:53:44] <roycroft> not here
[11:53:47] <Loetmichel2> thats paid vacation
[11:53:54] <roycroft> we don't have any of that stuff guaranteed
[11:54:02] <roycroft> because socialism is bad, mmkay?
[11:54:13] <malcom2073> heh
[11:54:31] <roycroft> our corporate masters don't even see the benefit of keeping workers alive to slave for them
[11:54:37] <roycroft> because they can always outsource the work
[11:55:11] <Loetmichel2> its one of the reasons germany workers are expensive compared to the rest of the world
[11:55:23] <pcw_home> Loetmichel2: not much different in the US, after taxes and social security I pay about 50%
[11:55:35] <roycroft> and amongst the most productive, loetmichel2
[11:55:42] <Loetmichel2> on the other hand ist one reason why german workers have such a good fame around the world ;)
[11:55:59] <pcw_home> but will probably receive much lower benefits than in th EU
[11:56:01] <Loetmichel2> yes, that too, roycroft
[11:56:50] <roycroft> we have a strange situation in this country where our supreme court has ruled that corporations are people, and entitled to all the rights of a real person
[11:56:50] <Loetmichel2> pcw_home: but your employer dosent pay half of the insurance and taxes on top of your salary, does he?
[11:57:15] <ssi> Loetmichel2: yeah, in the US most "real" jobs pay for most of our insurance and half our payroll taxes
[11:57:34] <ssi> payroll taxes being a fun euphemism for the money that's taken from us before income taxes to pay for other people who don't work
[11:57:48] <roycroft> yet they are also forbidden by law from acting like people - if a corporation has a social conscience and tries to go something good for its workers and/or society it can be sued by its shareholders for not maximising profit
[11:58:01] <roycroft> and the courts have ruled in favor of shareholders in those cases
[11:58:21] <ssi> roycroft: the shareholders own the company, they get to decide how it's run
[11:58:34] <roycroft> they get to decide who gets to decide how it's run
[11:58:36] <Loetmichel2> roycroft: thats why i like personal owned companys
[11:58:42] <CaptHindsight> corprations just gets the rights that people have without all the burdens or down sides
[11:58:44] <ssi> anti-corporate half-truths and rhetoric aren't useful
[11:58:45] <roycroft> the board of directors decide how it's run
[11:58:53] <Loetmichel2> no shareholders that want a part of the cake
[11:59:00] <roycroft> those are not half-truths
[11:59:08] <ssi> sure they are
[11:59:18] <ssi> a corporation doesn't decide to do something on its own
[11:59:21] <ssi> it's not a sentient thing
[11:59:50] <roycroft> the corporation itself, no
[11:59:55] <ssi> if you and your wife jointly own all your assets, and you decide to "have a social conscience" and give all your joint money to some charity
[12:00:00] <roycroft> although it does have the rights of a sentient being
[12:00:01] <ssi> she can sue you for squandering her money
[12:00:15] <ssi> you can't say that "your marriage decided to give away the money"
[12:00:16] <roycroft> yes
[12:00:24] <roycroft> i understand your point
[12:00:27] <CaptHindsight> is that only true for female corporations? :)
[12:00:30] <roycroft> there are differences however
[12:00:40] <ssi> sure there are differences, nothing's black and white
[12:00:51] <ssi> and sure corporations do some shit that's less than desireable
[12:00:56] <roycroft> one is that the majority shares of most corporations are held by a very small number of people
[12:01:00] <ssi> but you can assume that corporations will maximize utility
[12:01:06] <ssi> because that's what any rational economic entity will do
[12:01:12] <roycroft> who do not usually represent the interests of all shareholders
[12:01:14] <ssi> any deviation from maximal utility is a mistake
[12:01:30] <roycroft> the second is that ownership is generally remote
[12:01:42] <Loetmichel2> if i ever get a company it will never have a single shareholder. if i need money i will ask a bank for a loan.
[12:01:43] <roycroft> so that the owners (shareholders) do not live in the community where a corporation does its work
[12:01:45] <CaptHindsight> that's why corporations used to have term limits
[12:01:49] <ssi> and if the people making the decisions in a corporation make a mistake which causes a less than maximal outcome, then they may be on the hook to answer to the owners
[12:01:52] <ssi> ie the shareholders
[12:01:59] <ssi> there's nothing evil about that
[12:02:03] <roycroft> and that detachment makes it easy to focus on nothing but profit maximisation without regard to anything else
[12:02:03] <CaptHindsight> heh
[12:02:07] <pcw_home> well running under simply economics laws corporations will mainly externalize their costs
[12:02:07] <CaptHindsight> define eveil
[12:02:13] <Loetmichel2> companys that are owned by shareholders are only "thinking" from year to year
[12:02:23] <Loetmichel2> and only about pleasing the sheareholders
[12:02:25] <roycroft> one standard mechanism for doing so is to externalise as much cost as possible
[12:02:47] <Loetmichel2> on the long run a "one person owned" company works MUCH better
[12:02:47] <CaptHindsight> speaking of short term thinkers
[12:03:05] <roycroft> it costs a lot of money for an extractive company to keep its operation clean and non-polluting
[12:03:20] <roycroft> so in order to maximise profits it externalises that cost as much as possible
[12:03:26] <roycroft> making as much of a mess as it can get away with
[12:03:29] <zeeshan> man
[12:03:31] <zeeshan> market is picking back up
[12:03:32] <zeeshan> HOORAY
[12:03:37] <ssi> zeeshan: srsly
[12:03:39] <roycroft> and leaving the local community (taxpayers) to bear the cost of cleaning it up
[12:03:41] <zeeshan> i hope we don't get a double dip though
[12:03:51] <roycroft> when the majority shareholders live 2000km away they don't see the mess
[12:03:58] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: buy low, sell high, not the other way around
[12:04:09] <roycroft> and they push the board of directors to continue externalising costs
[12:04:10] <zeeshan> i love the stock market
[12:04:20] <zeeshan> at the end of the day all the inefficient companies get owned
[12:04:23] <zeeshan> the efficient ones prosper
[12:04:28] <zeeshan> its a great system
[12:04:34] <ssi> zeeshan: that's how it WOULD work
[12:04:38] <roycroft> except it doesn't work that way at all
[12:04:39] <zeeshan> my problem is the fucking government
[12:04:41] <zeeshan> interfering
[12:04:43] <zeeshan> with their bullshit
[12:04:46] <ssi> zeeshan: yeah, that
[12:04:50] <roycroft> actually, the opposite is the problem
[12:04:54] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: and all the people that borrowed to get into the market and sold to get out last week
[12:04:59] <roycroft> government does not "interfere" in the right ways
[12:05:00] <zeeshan> when you guys went off the gold standard
[12:05:02] <zeeshan> in 71
[12:05:06] <zeeshan> that was the worst thing possible for your country
[12:05:14] <zeeshan> it made your currency completely volatile
[12:05:22] <zeeshan> and it dragged others down with it too
[12:05:31] <zeeshan> because everyone was using the USD as the standard currency
[12:05:33] <ssi> zeeshan: only those who were on the dollar standard :P
[12:05:36] <CaptHindsight> nah
[12:05:55] <CaptHindsight> they want it "volatile"
[12:06:04] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i thinkso.
[12:06:12] <zeeshan> i really think they're gonna try to devalue the usd right now
[12:06:21] <roycroft> there is not one example of laissez-faire capitalism has endured over a long period of time
[12:06:22] <zeeshan> that way all these loans to china can be defaulted
[12:06:23] <zeeshan> lol
[12:06:28] <roycroft> it never has and never will
[12:06:29] <zeeshan> and then comes ww3
[12:06:35] <ssi> too many roycrofts in the world
[12:06:35] <roycroft> it's an inherently flawed economic model
[12:06:47] <ssi> too many "there oughta be a law"alists
[12:07:02] <zeeshan> keynesian economics is a fail
[12:07:02] <roycroft> you have absolutely no concept of what i believe
[12:07:10] <ssi> I have an inkling
[12:07:11] <roycroft> i think we have far too many laws
[12:07:12] <zeeshan> austrian economics is correct
[12:07:16] <roycroft> but not enough of the right ones
[12:07:20] <roycroft> i don't think you really do
[12:07:29] <JT-Shop> skunkworks, when I put a .25 move after turning the output on and watching a watch window the digital out did not cycle as expected when I increased it to 1 it did
[12:07:43] <ssi> you have absolutely no concept of what I believe about your beliefs!
[12:07:49] <zeeshan> ROFL
[12:07:53] <malcom2073> lol
[12:07:56] <zeeshan> i just know both of oyou are the reason
[12:08:00] <zeeshan> china is going down
[12:08:01] <zeeshan> thank you
[12:08:04] <ssi> lol
[12:08:12] <CaptHindsight> down where?
[12:08:14] <roycroft> unless your inkling is that i believe that corporations as they exist in this country today are harmful to our economy and long-term prosperity
[12:08:21] <ssi> CaptHindsight: going down on korea
[12:08:21] <zeeshan> LOLL
[12:08:22] <zeeshan> LOLOLOL
[12:08:23] <zeeshan> ok
[12:08:26] <ssi> zeeshan is writing fanfic
[12:08:28] <malcom2073> heyyooooooohhhhh
[12:08:31] <roycroft> that does now, however, mean that i believe that all corporations should be banished
[12:08:42] <zeeshan> with roycroft, we'd be back to barter system
[12:08:52] <zeeshan> gimme your apples for some pears
[12:08:57] <ssi> no, he wants corporations to be owned and run by the state :P
[12:08:57] <roycroft> see, proof that you do not have any idea what i believe
[12:08:59] <zeeshan> "but i hate pears!"
[12:09:02] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I'll give you 1.27 pears for your 2.1 apples
[12:09:08] <zeeshan> malcom2073: you're ripping me
[12:09:10] <ssi> with no profit motive
[12:09:11] <roycroft> no, i do not want most corporations to be owned and run by the state
[12:09:18] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Of course I am, I'm bigger than you
[12:09:20] <zeeshan> profit is the drive
[12:09:22] <zeeshan> to become more efficient.
[12:09:24] <roycroft> i want most corporations to be in the private sector
[12:09:30] <zeeshan> efficiency leads to economic growth
[12:09:34] <roycroft> and i believe very strongly in profit as a motivator
[12:09:43] <roycroft> i'm not a "pure socialist", whatever that means
[12:09:46] <roycroft> nor a "pure capitalist"
[12:09:53] <roycroft> i believe in a mixed economy
[12:10:14] <ssi> so you want all the laws to go away, and be replaced by laws which reflect that which makes you personally happy and/or prosperous
[12:10:16] <roycroft> i believe in adopting whatever model best suits the need at hand, without regard for dogma
[12:10:22] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: I don't think that you can cover this topic in just one IRC session
[12:10:24] <roycroft> no, i don't want "all the laws to go away"
[12:10:33] <roycroft> nor do i want to adopt only laws the benefit me personally
[12:10:54] <roycroft> i want to see society as a whole prosper, with all its members given real opportunity to do their best
[12:10:57] <pcw_home> profit is drive to cheat and screw the environment also
[12:11:11] <malcom2073> There's not enough "best" to go around
[12:11:23] <ssi> malcom2073: lol yes
[12:11:27] <ssi> there's already real opportunity
[12:11:33] <ssi> there's just not enough best
[12:12:06] <roycroft> anyone who has ever bothered to read all of "the wealth of nations" (not just the "invisible hand" bit that is mentioned exactly twice in the book) knows that smith's basic premise is that commerce should be left to the private sector, but government oversight is needed to keep the cheaters/greedy in check
[12:12:22] <roycroft> there is not already opportunity for all
[12:12:39] <ssi> I don't disagree with you there
[12:12:39] <roycroft> there is opportunity for some, and that "some" is becoming a smaller and smaller segment of society every day
[12:12:49] <ssi> however most people's idea of government oversight is drastically different than mine
[12:12:58] <ssi> government oversight creates a lot of the opportunities for cheating right now
[12:13:02] <roycroft> and you don't really know what my idea of it is
[12:13:08] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: facts and reason will get you nowhere with this discussion
[12:13:09] <roycroft> but you've made some assumptions that are wrong
[12:13:11] <malcom2073> That's kinda the point
[12:13:27] <malcom2073> Everyones idea of opportunities and oversight, they're all drastically different
[12:13:29] <roycroft> government oversight, for the most part, is designed for cheating right now
[12:13:36] <roycroft> to use a great example
[12:13:39] <pcw_home> Plus our tax laws punish working schmucks
[12:13:49] <roycroft> and it should be clear by now that i'm a progressive, not a so-called "conservative"
[12:13:57] <roycroft> let's take the great state of california
[12:14:11] <malcom2073> ./part #politics /join #linuxcnc
[12:14:14] <roycroft> there is more government regulation there than in most other states
[12:14:22] <roycroft> and more than in the federal government
[12:14:39] <roycroft> that oversight is supposed to be all about protecting society and protecting the environment, right?
[12:14:46] <roycroft> because the majority of californians are "liberals"
[12:15:09] <ssi> well I think that's an invalid assumption, but the majority of the voting outcomes reflect something like that
[12:15:14] <roycroft> unfortunately, most of those regulations were written by corporate lobbyists, and most of those regulatory boards are staffed by corporate lobbyists
[12:15:20] <malcom2073> zeeshan, you need this:
http://paradiseequipment.com/communities/1/000/001/517/391//images/10652570.jpg
[12:15:26] <zeeshan> rofl
[12:15:26] <zeeshan> ncie
[12:15:27] <roycroft> people think they're voting to protect the environment
[12:15:37] <malcom2073> It'll probably sell for $200 :P
[12:15:38] <roycroft> but they're really voting for corporations to protect their own interests
[12:15:48] <ssi> malcom2073: niiiice
[12:15:49] <ssi> where is it
[12:15:54] <malcom2073> ssi: Southern PA
[12:15:55] <roycroft> which are are not the interestes of small businesses - which should be the backbone of our economy
[12:16:04] <malcom2073> ssi: Monthly machinary auctions
[12:16:12] <roycroft> so we have onerous regulations that do not accomplish what they purport to do
[12:16:22] <ssi> $200 to buy, $20,000 to get home
[12:16:22] <ssi> hahah
[12:16:25] <roycroft> and which make it very difficult for small businesses to comply with
[12:16:40] <zeeshan> without the government, me and roycroft could go to a piece of land and slaughter all the moose
[12:16:42] <malcom2073> ssi: There are a couple guys who bring flatbed semi trucks, with forklifts attached to the back :-P
[12:16:43] <zeeshan> and there would be no moose left
[12:16:46] <roycroft> but play right into the interests of the corporate masters who run things
[12:16:52] <zeeshan> gov policy is very important :P
[12:16:54] <CaptHindsight> they just about give those old press brakes away for free
[12:17:01] <ssi> roycroft: you're not wrong
[12:17:05] <roycroft> an example
[12:17:06] <roycroft> carb
[12:17:15] <roycroft> the california air pollution regulatory board
[12:17:23] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Anything that weighs over 500lbs typically goes for near free
[12:17:28] <roycroft> it's purpose is to decrease air pollution
[12:17:31] <zeeshan> small businses shouldnb't be the back bone of or economy though
[12:17:36] <zeeshan> just as much as they can rise
[12:17:36] <ssi> zeeshan: why not
[12:17:37] <roycroft> so they have this regulation about emission control of vehicles
[12:17:39] <zeeshan> they can plummet too
[12:17:47] <roycroft> sounds like a great idea - keep the engines running clean, cut pollution
[12:17:53] <zeeshan> im sure youve seen this yourself
[12:17:57] <malcom2073> This however:
http://paradiseequipment.com/communities/1/000/001/517/391//images/10652855.jpg will likely get a pretty penny, name brands sell
[12:18:06] <ssi> zeeshan: here's my thoughts on that
[12:18:10] <zeeshan> the backbone of our economy should be efficiency
[12:18:11] <zeeshan> that is all :P
[12:18:14] <roycroft> but they way the regs are written, it's illegal to modify a carburetor or exhaust system from the stock factory equipment
[12:18:16] <ssi> zeeshan: big companies are FULL of inefficiency
[12:18:21] <roycroft> even if that modification makes the engine run cleaner
[12:18:25] <zeeshan> i totally agree ssi
[12:18:26] <ssi> they get propped up by crony capitalism as it stands today
[12:18:26] <roycroft> so if you have an older vehicle
[12:18:30] <ssi> that should stop
[12:18:33] <zeeshan> but they're well established for example
[12:18:33] <ssi> on the other hand
[12:18:38] <roycroft> and you want to drop in a fuel injection system and a cleaner exhaust system
[12:18:40] <roycroft> you can't
[12:18:49] <zeeshan> like a minining company has inefficiency, but even with the inefficiency, it can make profit cause they know how to mine
[12:18:52] <Rab> malcom2073, so clapped out that by the end they were only using it for drilling, evidently. ;)
[12:18:58] <ssi> if I can go to a small business, and I have to go from 8 to 5 when t hey're open, monday through friday, and the prices are 30% higher
[12:18:59] <roycroft> and when the auto manufacturers stop making parts for those old vehicles
[12:19:01] <zeeshan> but a smaller mining company can falter when they realize wtf they got themself into
[12:19:02] <malcom2073> roycroft: You can. But you have to pay for carb certification of the system as a whole, and that costs thousands of dollars :P
[12:19:07] <roycroft> you cannot legally fix them to pass emissions standards
[12:19:07] <ssi> or I can go to walmart at all hours and buy the same product for cheaper
[12:19:12] <roycroft> you have to get rid of the vehicle and replace it
[12:19:13] <malcom2073> Rab: most likely :)
[12:19:25] <roycroft> that benefits the big corporations - the auto manufacturers
[12:19:29] <ssi> I may still go to the mom & pop if they can compete on something else, like service, knowledge, proximity, whatever
[12:19:36] <ssi> but if they refuse to do that, then why should I patronize them?
[12:19:43] <zeeshan> i agree
[12:19:49] <roycroft> and penalizes small companies - the repair/mod shops that otherwise would fix your existing vehicle and make it run cleaner
[12:19:57] <ssi> zeeshan: yeah you and I are on the same page...
[12:20:10] <roycroft> that's just one example of how government regulatory bodies work in the real world
[12:20:12] <zeeshan> as long as we agree on the basic economic principles
[12:20:19] <roycroft> there are countless other examples
[12:20:48] <roycroft> ssi: small businesses do not have the ability to externalize as much as the big ones doe
[12:20:57] <roycroft> which makes it difficult to compete
[12:21:34] <ssi> sure
[12:21:40] <ssi> but like I said originally
[12:21:46] <ssi> big corps are FULL of inefficiency
[12:21:56] <ssi> the inefficiency can easily overrun the externalized costs
[12:21:58] <roycroft> big box store comes into town and says "we'll create 500 jobs, but we want a property tax break for 20 years, and we want the city to pay for the infrastructure (roads, water, sewer, power, etc.) upgrades to handle our store
[12:22:11] <ssi> well there you go
[12:22:15] <ssi> you just described crony capitalism
[12:22:16] <roycroft> city government bends over, pulls down their trews, and say "sure, do us good"
[12:22:23] <ssi> which isn't pure free market economics
[12:22:46] <roycroft> mom and pop come to town and say "we want to open a new business and we'll employ 5 people, and we want the same tax breaks you gave megacorp"
[12:22:46] <pcw_home> sure it is
[12:22:50] <roycroft> city says "bugger off"
[12:23:17] <roycroft> ssi: i'm not saying this isn't our own fault
[12:23:21] <malcom2073> ssi There's a reason that pure free market economics has the word "pure" in front
[12:23:24] <malcom2073> because it doesn't exist
[12:23:36] <malcom2073> Rofl
[12:23:38] <ssi> it does exist
[12:23:39] <malcom2073> wrong window
[12:23:42] <roycroft> although increasingly it's becoming difficult to change things
[12:24:03] <ssi> just not under the purview of government intervention
[12:24:27] <roycroft> the latest flavor of voter suppression laws makes it hard for people to put people who really represent them in government
[12:24:35] <ssi> honestly you can boil everything down to one simplistic problem
[12:24:37] <pcw_home> free market finds the most efficient ways including bribing public officials
[12:24:38] <roycroft> citizen's united makes it even more difficult
[12:24:45] <ssi> government has a monopoly on legal violence
[12:25:06] <malcom2073> Tbh though, if you can't afford $25 to get a state issued ID... I'm not sure I really *want* you voting for the future of this country.
[12:25:08] <roycroft> supposedly it doesn't
[12:25:17] <roycroft> but i'm not going to get into a second amendment discussion here :)
[12:25:20] * roycroft knows his limits
[12:25:33] <ssi> 2A doesn't give the people a right to legal violence in anything like the way the state has
[12:25:46] <roycroft> see above :)
[12:25:59] <ssi> yeah that's fine, that's why I'm dismissing your silly non-argument
[12:26:15] <ssi> we have no reason to talk about 2A, I'm jsut not going to let you sneak a snide little thing in there without letting you know you're wrong :)
[12:26:28] <roycroft> malcom2073: if that's in reference to voter suppression laws, that's at best an extremely naïve view of the situation
[12:26:51] <ssi> voter suppression isn't the problem
[12:26:56] <ssi> the problem is low information voting
[12:26:58] <ssi> which you already said
[12:27:01] <roycroft> voter suppression is a HUGE problem
[12:27:09] <roycroft> yes, low information voting is another HUGE problem
[12:27:14] <malcom2073> roycroft: Blame the media, on both counts.
[12:27:26] <roycroft> no
[12:27:40] <roycroft> i'll continue to blame the rich, old, white men who run this country :)
[12:27:42] <malcom2073> There's no such thing as independant news, and there's no such thing as truth in media. Everything is skewed, everything is biased.
[12:27:52] <malcom2073> Thus: Everyone operates on invalid information
[12:28:01] <ssi> let's enfranchise all the poor suppressed minorities so they can elect some young, poor, women of color
[12:28:04] <ssi> cause that'll fix the problem
[12:28:29] <roycroft> they are already enfranchised
[12:28:35] <ssi> enfranchised but suppressed?
[12:28:38] <roycroft> let's just enforce our existing laws
[12:28:55] <ssi> all of them?
[12:28:58] <malcom2073> roycroft: Which ones? You can't enforce all of them
[12:29:01] <malcom2073> many of them disagree with eachother
[12:29:01] <roycroft> the good ones :)
[12:29:10] <ssi> as subjectively defined by who?
[12:29:22] <roycroft> i think the context should have been pretty clear on that
[12:29:31] <ssi> anyone but rich old white men?
[12:29:35] <malcom2073> What gives you the right to choose the "good" laws any more than the old rich white people have the right?
[12:29:35] <ssi> you personally?
[12:29:43] <ssi> context was not clear
[12:30:13] <roycroft> laws that support the principles on which this nation was founded
[12:30:22] <malcom2073> Let's ask one of the people who founded the country
[12:30:23] <malcom2073> oh wait
[12:30:23] <roycroft> principles like "all mean are created equal"
[12:30:27] <roycroft> men
[12:30:46] <jdh> so, you are voting for Bernie?
[12:30:54] <roycroft> i don't know
[12:30:56] <malcom2073> What about women?
[12:30:56] <Rab> Hey y'all, I have a non-political question related to machine tools!!
[12:30:59] <roycroft> i like a lot of what he stands for
[12:31:06] <roycroft> i'm not sure he's electable
[12:31:09] <Jymmm> Rab: The answer is 42
[12:31:10] <ssi> Rab: save it! :P
[12:31:11] <ssi> heheh
[12:31:19] <roycroft> and i'm not sure what his positions are on a lot of things
[12:31:27] <ssi> funny thing is, I read all of bernie's platform
[12:31:36] <ssi> I agree with him in most cases about what the *problems* are
[12:31:47] <ssi> but I think he's 100% out of phase with reality in terms of his *solutions*
[12:32:00] <roycroft> hence my statement about his not being electable
[12:32:05] <Rab> This is a nut from a cool old Whitney-Jensen punch. It's reverse thread and evidently hardened. I see lots of radial stress cracking. How can/should I recreate or replace this thing?
http://i.imgur.com/jOHn4mt.jpg
[12:32:06] <ssi> for instance, his solution to police violence
[12:32:09] <roycroft> i seriously dislike hillary clinton
[12:32:11] <ssi> is to give BLACK FELONS the right to vote
[12:32:13] <ssi> JUST BLACK FELONS
[12:32:15] <malcom2073> My wife says we're moving to canada if Trump gets elected
[12:32:16] <ssi> what?!@
[12:32:26] <jdh> ssi: with a little bit more of your money, he can solve them.
[12:32:29] <roycroft> because stephen harper is such a great pm?
[12:32:37] <ssi> jdh: yeah, that's about the size of it
[12:32:43] <ssi> he wants a $15/hr minimum wage
[12:32:43] <roycroft> canada has its share of political problems at the moment
[12:32:50] <ssi> but then he wants to solve the problem of youth unemployment
[12:32:56] <malcom2073> True, but at least they're less violently vocal about it
[12:33:00] <ssi> with a $1T job creation program
[12:33:04] <ssi> that's just....
[12:33:11] <roycroft> they don't have to be
[12:33:16] <roycroft> they're a parliamentary system
[12:33:24] <roycroft> the government can just change things at will
[12:33:27] <ssi> I can't take anyone like that seriously
[12:33:31] <ssi> clearly doesn't understand economics
[12:33:32] <roycroft> it doesn't need to get loud about it
[12:33:50] <Rab> Anybody recognize whether Pexto or any other modern punch mfg has a punch fixing mechanism compatible with this system?
[12:33:55] <roycroft> name a president who understood economics
[12:34:09] <malcom2073> I didn't think it was their job to understand economics
[12:34:10] <roycroft> presidents understand politics (the good ones)
[12:34:30] <ssi> you don't have to be a macroeconomist to be president
[12:34:37] <malcom2073> A good president is the one who understands politicians
[12:34:37] <roycroft> it kind of isn't, as long as they're good at picking economic advisors
[12:35:03] <roycroft> back to the trumpish things
[12:35:21] <ssi> but you should be smart enough to understand that putting a gun to employers head and telling them that if they hire a high school kid for $7/hr they'll go to prison, and then turning around and demanding a trillion dollars in taxpayer money to give jobs to highschool kids because nobody will pay them $15/hr is fucking asinine
[12:35:26] <roycroft> the reason we have donald trumps here is because we have a govenment that is incapable of functioning
[12:35:32] <roycroft> so nothing ever gets done
[12:35:46] <roycroft> and all that leaves is the ability to make a lot of noise
[12:35:58] <ssi> roycroft: in some ways that's by design
[12:36:04] <roycroft> not really
[12:36:14] <roycroft> our founding fathers wanted to make it difficult to do things
[12:36:17] <roycroft> but not impossib le
[12:36:37] <ssi> it's only become impossible because there's such a massive rift in ideals
[12:36:39] <roycroft> they actually warned about political parties, and tried to avoid party factionalism from becoming part of our system
[12:36:48] <roycroft> but that lasted all of about eight years
[12:37:03] <roycroft> we had federalists and whigs by the turn of the century (19th)
[12:37:10] <ssi> which to me seems to boil down to people who want to take away everyone else's social liberties vs people who want to take away everyone else's economic liberties
[12:37:22] <roycroft> that's one of the biggest failures of the founding fathers, imo
[12:37:36] <roycroft> the knew that factionalism would harm the system they designed
[12:37:49] <ssi> well factionalism is a natural outcome I think
[12:37:52] <roycroft> but instead of taking measures to deal with it they just willed that it would not ever happen
[12:37:58] <ssi> organizing into parties is necessary for large scale elections
[12:38:11] <roycroft> not in the best of all possible worlds
[12:38:14] <ssi> but they put into place a bunch of processes to exclude other parties from being abte to gain relevance
[12:38:18] <ssi> and that's what needs to change
[12:38:35] <ssi> best of all possible worlds is a fallacy :)
[12:39:11] <roycroft> pangloss would disagree
[12:40:17] * roycroft wonders if ssi's impression of his political/economic leanings has altered today
[12:40:27] <ssi> no, not much
[12:40:39] <malcom2073> That's the problem, people have opinions that differ from each other, you will always have factions
[12:40:48] <malcom2073> because strength in numbers, people move towards other people who are similar to them
[12:41:30] <roycroft> i have this odd propensity to seek the truth, and try to remain unencumbered by truthiness
[12:41:53] <malcom2073> Everyone does, it's just a matter of what you consider truth. Truth is relative
[12:41:55] <ssi> I'm glad you have such an enlightened view of yourself :)
[12:42:13] <roycroft> i did not say that i'm as successful as i'd like to be
[12:42:28] <roycroft> i have an enlightened view of what i'd ideally like to be
[12:42:38] <roycroft> but no delusion that i've attained that ideal
[12:42:59] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNYitROVAAAT7rg.jpg:large
[12:43:06] <ssi> biden 2016!
[12:44:13] <roycroft> when i see a problem i don't immediately say "government should fix this!" or "the private sector should fix this!"
[12:44:22] <roycroft> i say "how can this best be fixed?"
[12:44:30] <roycroft> at least that's what i try to do
[12:44:42] <ssi> that's what most people do
[12:44:48] <roycroft> not most people i know
[12:45:01] <roycroft> especially the so-called libertarians, who are most of the people i work with
[12:45:01] <ssi> but everyone has a different idea of best, because everyone has different ideas of how to externalize costs :)
[12:45:23] <roycroft> they look at any problem and immediately complain about government
[12:45:34] <roycroft> i'm as suspicious of government as i am of corporations
[12:45:37] <ssi> it's an easy knee-jerk to have in today's over-regulated society
[12:46:08] <roycroft> the difference, in my mind, is that i have a better chance of changing my government than i do of changing corporations
[12:46:13] <tap> the variables that go into stepgen for example HOME and HOME_OFFSET what units are these measured in? steps, inches?
[12:46:15] <ssi> and you keep saying corporations when you mean private sector
[12:46:26] <ssi> show me a corporation and I'll show you a government intervention
[12:46:29] <roycroft> no, i don't mean private sector
[12:46:43] <roycroft> there's a big difference between corporations and proprietorships/partnerships
[12:46:56] <roycroft> now i should clarify that when i say "corporation" i do mean large corporations
[12:47:03] <roycroft> not small, privately-held corporations
[12:47:15] <ssi> so what, you want to eliminate the stock market?
[12:47:22] <pcw_home> tap: machine units
[12:47:30] <roycroft> not just publicly traded corporations
[12:47:43] <pcw_home> (which may be inches or mm)
[12:47:56] <roycroft> actually, i don't see any purpose in the stock market except to enrich a very small number of people who have to do nothing to make their money
[12:48:04] <roycroft> but no, i don't want to eliminate it
[12:48:05] <tap> pwc_home - what does that mean? That begs another question which is identical but for machine_units
[12:48:11] <roycroft> nor do i want to eliminate large corporations
[12:48:34] <pcw_home> machine units are defined in your .ini file
[12:48:48] <roycroft> but as your pre-conceived view of who and what i am has not changed, it seems you're not listening to me, so perhaps i should just move on to something productive at this point
[12:49:07] <ssi> I'm listening, but I hear a lot of problems and no solutions
[12:49:23] <tap> I'm using stepgen and it creates the .ini file - so are we talking inches or mm or steps of the servo or revolutions for a leadscrew?
[12:49:45] <pcw_home> depends on what you selected with stepconf
[12:50:11] <pcw_home> if in doubt, edit your .ini file
[12:50:21] <ssi> tap: everything is in inches or mm of linear travel for linear axes, based on what you selected as machine units. it relates to steps and revs by your output scale
[12:51:34] <tap> I've chosen inches as the machines measure of length so do I use inches for HOME and if so measured from where?
[12:51:56] <malcom2073> What's WMC? Looks like they made a clone grizzly G9249, and a clone bridgeport:
http://www.auctionzip.com/Full-Image/2536789/fi29.cgi
[12:52:18] <CaptHindsight> that's a wall mount mill
[12:52:23] <ssi> tap: the HOME and HOME_OFFSET settings get used to specify the machine coordinate system after homing
[12:52:24] <malcom2073> hehe
[12:52:43] <malcom2073> WallMountCenter
[12:52:48] <ssi> tap: so for instance, in the simple case of setting both to 0, when you home the axis, after the home sequence is complete the machine will be at 0
[12:52:57] <ssi> that defines every other position, such as your travel limits
[12:53:25] <CaptHindsight> lots of clones, some can share parts, others are just close
[12:53:26] <ssi> this document explains the homing better than I can probably
[12:53:27] <ssi> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
[12:53:42] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight:
http://www.auctionzip.com/Full-Image/2536789/fi28.cgi A 9249 under the same name
[12:53:51] <malcom2073> Both of those are in a junk auction this weekend I'm going to
[12:54:12] <ssi> malcom2073: in PA? :P
[12:54:17] <malcom2073> ssi: Yep :P
[12:54:24] <ssi> so much good machinery in the northeast :(
[12:56:04] <malcom2073> ssi: Fly on up! :P
[12:56:14] <ssi> I could, but I can't get machines in the airplane :D
[12:56:19] <malcom2073> Hehe
[12:56:19] <ssi> I bought my HNC in connecticut
[12:56:22] <malcom2073> What's the weight limit?
[12:56:50] <ssi> 120lb behind the seats, maybe 250lb in the passenger seat but there's a stick in the way
[12:56:57] <ssi> it's not an airplane for moving stuff
[12:57:00] <malcom2073> Heh indeed
[12:58:15] <CaptHindsight> the WMC's look like every other Enco, Grizzly, etc
[12:58:25] <malcom2073> yeah
[12:58:27] <CaptHindsight> were they Winco?
[12:58:44] <CaptHindsight> which became Amada?
[12:58:57] <CaptHindsight> can't find much about them
[12:59:48] <malcom2073> My dad is gonna pick up the lathe if he can get it for cheap enough, clean, and resell
[13:16:32] <Jymmm> In case anyone cares... Septic Systems - LOTS of detailed info...
http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Index_Septic_Systems.php
[13:17:07] <ssi> ok got my die filer kit ordered
[13:17:11] <ssi> and ordered the boring/facing head from him too
[13:17:20] <ssi> hooray tool projects :P
[13:26:32] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I hope to never have to know that information :P
[13:26:52] <malcom2073> interesting website though
[13:26:55] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I WISH I didn't have to know that informaiton.
[13:27:07] <Rab> I'm all for big government if it gets my poop off my property.
[13:27:10] <malcom2073> yeah that sucks :/
[13:27:27] <malcom2073> Rab: It puts other peoples poop on your property :P
[13:27:29] <Jymmm> Rab: gallon of diesel and a torch
[13:27:35] <malcom2073> Because you have more property and less poop
[13:37:17] <Jymmm> Hmmm, it seems that bleach dissolves hair...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlb4Dggk66k
[13:39:45] <_methods> gettin rid of more victims?
[13:39:59] <Jymmm> _methods: "guests" ;)
[13:40:03] <_methods> lol
[13:40:16] <Jymmm> _methods: lime, not bleach btw
[13:40:49] <_methods> now you're scaring me
[13:41:00] <_methods> well you've always scared me
[13:41:01] <Jymmm> just NOW I'm scarring you?
[13:41:02] <malcom2073> c'mon everyone has seen that episode of CSI :P
[13:41:37] <Jymmm> But, has everyone seen the corpse research center?
[13:42:05] <malcom2073> In person?
[13:42:07] <malcom2073> Or on TV?
[13:42:22] <Jymmm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm
[13:43:44] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yet another opportunity we missed:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stacksdesign/stacks-metal-cube-desk-accessory-and-desk-organize?ref=jellop&utm_source=jellop&utm_medium=ocpm&utm_content=ad
[13:44:40] <Rab> * Stainless steels holds an incredible shine, making it an optimal choice for desk art.
[13:45:01] <ssi> the marketing buzzwordiness is top notch
[13:45:02] <_methods> lol
[13:45:19] <Rab> * Has an incredible boiling point of 2900°C, or 5252°F.
[13:45:32] <Rab> Sure don't want my desk ornaments boiling. This sounds legit.
[13:45:37] <ssi> yep
[13:45:39] <ssi> 10/10, would boil
[13:45:47] <Jymmm> Rab: That's ALMOST hot enough to bbq
[13:46:14] <ssi> if you give them money now, they will cut a slot in a block of brass and have it at your doorstep by april of next year
[13:46:39] <ssi> god the least they could do is polish the toolmarks out of them
[13:47:09] <_methods> that's what keeps it from boiling though
[13:47:11] <ssi> OH
[13:47:14] <ssi> my mistake
[13:47:26] <_methods> the increased surface area of the toolmarks
[13:47:40] <_methods> heat diffusion technique
[13:47:57] <_methods> it's like one of those things that keeps your cpu cool
[13:48:05] <ssi> a fan?
[13:48:11] <_methods> don't get all technical on me
[13:48:12] <ssi> :D
[13:48:24] <Rab> Wonder if anybody's tried these for organizing their speaker cables.
[13:48:35] <Rab> Higher highs, lower lows, glassine soundstage, etc.
[13:48:50] <Jymmm> $20 for a "cord holder"?! Screw that...
https://www.gvcmortgage.com/wp-content/uploads/keep-cords-organized-with-bread-bag-labels.jpg
[13:50:12] <Jymmm> I like this one too...
http://survivalathome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/BreadTabsBinderClips03a.jpg
[13:50:28] <_methods> used to make ancient samurai swords lol
[13:51:28] <_methods> classic brass, ultras sustainable fused recycled copper and zinc
[13:51:30] <_methods> wtf is that
[13:52:03] <Jymmm> If you can't dazzle them with brillance, baffle em with bullshit =)
[13:52:10] <ssi> it's makerspeak for "we invented brass"
[13:52:11] <_methods> $20 for a cube
[13:52:18] <_methods> that is hilarious
[13:52:59] <_methods> notice all the apple paraphenalia
[13:53:04] <_methods> they know their target market
[13:53:13] <_methods> sorry ssi
[13:53:19] <Rab> "Fused" = designer speak for alloyed.
[13:53:35] <ssi> lol just because I don't like windows or android doesn't mean I'm susceptible to that type of marketing :)
[13:53:52] <_methods> it's ok we still love you
[13:54:11] <ssi> I use apple products because I'm too old to fuck with linux guis like I did in the 90s
[13:54:19] <_methods> heheh
[13:54:28] <_methods> you need some cubes now
[13:54:32] <ssi> apparently
[13:54:34] <Deejay> nobody is perfect, ssi ;)
[13:55:24] <ssi> I want a big lathe
[13:55:32] <ssi> I want a monarch 16, or maybe a sb 16
[13:55:33] <_methods> me too
[13:55:56] <malcom2073> Want to buy my 9? It'll grow up someday
[13:56:04] <ssi> nah, my heavy 10 will beat it up
[13:56:08] <_methods> keep feeding it chips
[13:56:25] <Deejay> hehe
[13:56:42] <ssi> malcom2073: have you seen the MLA guy's stuff? with a 9 you probably would be interested
[13:56:52] <ssi> http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/
[13:56:52] <malcom2073> nope, and I'm trying to get rid of my 9 :P
[13:56:57] <ssi> lol
[13:57:21] <ssi> the 9 is a nice lathe but it's a smidge tooooo smallll
[13:57:30] <ssi> heavy 10 is the practical minimum size IMO
[13:58:36] <malcom2073> I have a grizzly 12 now, so I'm happy
[13:58:43] <ssi> although the heavy 10 is nice cause it has a bigger spindle bore than a lot of bigger lathes
[13:58:48] <ssi> 1-3/8"
[13:58:53] <ssi> big enough to do rifle work
[14:12:43] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/5140916786.html
[14:14:29] <malcom2073> Nice magnetic clamp
[14:14:31] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/tld/5082118682.html
[14:14:36] <ssi> man I wish that were a bit cheaper
[14:14:45] <ssi> I really want a T&C grinder
[14:14:46] <furrywolf> seems a decent price
[14:15:37] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tld/5087702461.html
[14:15:38] <ssi> lol
[14:16:11] <malcom2073> hahaha
[14:16:13] <malcom2073> oops
[14:16:28] <cradek> > this appears to be easily repairable. I just don't have the time
[14:16:59] <furrywolf> lol
[14:17:02] <malcom2073> https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.carthrottle.com/workspace/uploads/memes/untitled-547d9178b8ce4.png
[14:17:29] <skunkworks> huh - for some reason I can get the atlanta craigslist
[14:18:31] <furrywolf> that's why I got my shoptask cheap, except the oops involved a reversing forklift.
[14:18:48] <ssi> http://athensga.craigslist.org/tls/5191645960.html
[14:18:53] <ssi> atlas 6x18 for a decent price
[14:19:08] <ssi> in Blurryvision(tm)!
[14:19:11] <_methods> lol
[14:19:36] <_methods> first gen stile lol
[14:19:52] <_methods> i was like wtf does taht mean
[14:19:56] <_methods> oh style
[14:20:52] <_methods> it's got a big burrrly table too
[14:21:01] <ssi> an important feature
[14:21:19] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tld/5154561240.html
[14:21:23] <ssi> I wonder what they're trying to get out of that
[14:22:14] <_methods> been up 24 days
[14:22:41] <_methods> that means probably too much hehe
[14:22:53] <ssi> probably
[14:22:58] <ssi> they have two mills along those lines
[14:23:09] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tld/5139026679.html
[14:23:12] <ssi> neither has a price
[14:23:13] <ssi> hate that
[14:23:35] <ssi> http://peachmachineworks.com
[14:23:42] <ssi> but hey, at least they've got a trendy useless website!
[14:24:13] <_methods> those pics
[14:24:27] <_methods> love the tiny end mill
[14:25:07] <tap> when i launch linuxcnc in the preview window there is a LinuxCNC shape and when homing the cone moves and the x display goes to 30 or 30 but the head of the machine only moves about 4 inches where did i go wrong?
[14:26:22] <ssi> tap: output scale is wrong
[14:26:28] <CaptHindsight> damn, those STACKS are amazing! The flat sides are ingenious. No wonder my BALLS idea for organizing the cords on my desk failed.
[14:26:36] <ssi> CaptHindsight: DOH
[14:26:51] <_methods> yeah i got fired from the last job where i put my balls on my desk
[14:27:07] <malcom2073> _methods: You gotta get them on your bosses desk before it's ok to put them on your own
[14:27:19] <_methods> i put them oin all the desks
[14:27:23] <_methods> maybe that's why i got fired
[14:27:25] <CaptHindsight> Has an incredible boiling point of 2900°C, or 5252°F. Should work on most desks
[14:27:27] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/5108954949.html
[14:27:31] <ssi> holy crap look at the facemill in that thing
[14:27:32] <ssi> <3
[14:27:41] <ssi> CaptHindsight: most non-boiling desks
[14:27:42] <tap> ssi what does that mean? Where do I look to see the output scale and do you mean during homing not running?
[14:28:08] <ssi> tap: after it's homed, if you jog it, what happens?
[14:28:25] <ssi> tap: jog it so the machine moves say 2 inches, and see what the displacement on the DRO on the screen says
[14:28:29] <tap> first we are talking about homing ive not got the machine running yet
[14:29:16] <ssi> well assuming you have real homing working, when you ask it to home it should jog the axes towards the home switch
[14:29:18] <tap> so if i jog it about 10 inches it moves about 1 inch
[14:29:29] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I still see opportunity. They only come in two colors. I bet if you painted them they could be in at least 8 colors, maybe more
[14:29:33] <ssi> after completing the home sequence, it should reset the DRO to whatever your home settings dictate
[14:29:40] <ssi> CaptHindsight: you're right
[14:29:44] <ssi> CaptHindsight: we should make tungsten ones
[14:29:47] <ssi> cause tungsten's trendy too!
[14:29:57] <ssi> and if their stainless ones are "ultra dense"
[14:29:58] <_methods> or frozen dog poo
[14:30:00] <CaptHindsight> and higher boiling point
[14:30:02] <ssi> what buzzwords would we use for the tungsten ones?
[14:30:04] <_methods> it's sustainable
[14:30:06] <tap> So if I jog the machine 10 inches it only moves about 1 real inch
[14:30:13] <ssi> tap: that means your output scale is wrong
[14:30:23] <_methods> boiling point much lower for frozen dog turd cubes
[14:30:30] <tap> again where is the output scale set
[14:30:48] <ssi> SCALE in ini
[14:30:52] <ssi> is it a stepper machine or a servo machine?
[14:31:06] <_methods> lead screw/ballscrew/belt drive?
[14:32:15] <ssi> http://gizmodo.com/almost-none-of-the-women-in-the-ashley-madison-database-1725558944
[14:32:22] <tap> there is no SCALE in the ini file that step gen created
[14:32:37] <Tom_itx> so add one
[14:33:15] <tap> wait yes there is one search for case so it is set to 16793.6 what does that mean exactly?
[14:33:25] <ssi> answer my previous question and I'll tell you
[14:33:41] <Tom_itx> that's an awfully big number for scale
[14:33:47] <ssi> no not really
[14:33:54] <Tom_itx> hmm
[14:34:24] <ssi> you won't answer the question, but I'm assuming stepper machine since you said stepgen
[14:34:27] <tap> so what is the machine unit what is that set to? again inches?
[14:34:37] <Tom_itx> fathoms
[14:34:58] <tap> im not sure what your preious question is since you did not direct it at me what is it?
[14:35:00] <Tom_itx> depends how you defined your units
[14:35:01] <ssi> it's set to whatever you set it to
[14:35:07] <ssi> find LINEAR_UNITS in your ini
[14:35:35] <tap> you all are not really familiar with linux cnc since you keep saying the same things over and i ask what you are saying
[14:35:43] <tap> thanks anyway
[14:35:52] <Tom_itx> oh but we are
[14:35:55] <ssi> tap: I've asked you three times if your machine is stepper or servo and you refuse to answer
[14:35:57] <Tom_itx> we like to play hard to get
[14:36:13] <ssi> that should be a fairly straightforward question
[14:36:37] <tap> ssi again you did not direct question at me and it scrolled off the screen with so much off topic chatter
[14:36:45] <ssi> well now's your chance
[14:36:50] <tap> again thanks ill just read the guide books
[14:36:53] <ssi> ok cool
[14:36:54] <Tom_itx> TAP: is it a stepper machine or servo?
[14:37:09] <ssi> if you can't answer that question you're unlikely to have much success interpreting anything else I have to offer
[14:37:35] <Tom_itx> i would recomend reading the guides anyway. someone spent alot of time writing and organizing them for us
[14:38:08] <Tom_itx> ssi, don't be an ass.. that's my job
[14:38:30] <ssi> I'm trying not to be but it's hard when genuine help is met with accusations of not knowing what I'm talking about
[14:41:14] <furrywolf> "Eureka saw 78 property crimes per 1,000 residents in 2013. The statewide average was less than 27 per thousand residents, barely a third the rate seen in Eureka. The city with the second-highest rate was Oakland, which had 62 property crimes per 1,000 residents, more than 20 percent below Eureka’s rate." not just my imagination. sigh.... fucking tweekers!
[14:41:24] <_methods> i'm suprised he figured you out that quick
[14:41:29] <_methods> lol
[14:41:31] <ssi> :P
[14:41:35] <CaptHindsight> I wish that I could find a 3D model of one of those. It looks like a cube with a single slot
[14:41:48] <_methods> lol
[14:41:54] <_methods> pretty challenging to model
[14:41:58] <ssi> _methods: compared with a lot of the people here, I really know very little about linuxcnc. That said, I'm pretty sure I can scale an axis :P
[14:42:16] <ssi> CaptHindsight: you should hire a design team to make you one
[14:42:17] <_methods> i hope so
[14:42:37] <CaptHindsight> http://st.depositphotos.com/1003549/2479/i/950/depositphotos_24791969-cube-3d-metal.jpg so close!!
[14:45:56] <furrywolf> bbl
[14:45:58] <roycroft> i was just down in northern california
[14:46:10] <roycroft> i visited mckinleyville, trinity, blue lake, and arcata
[14:46:10] <furrywolf> roycroft: you're lucky you made it out alive, according to recent statistics. :P
[14:46:14] <roycroft> but i did not go near eureke
[14:46:19] <roycroft> eureka
[14:46:37] <CaptHindsight> wild fires?
[14:46:52] <roycroft> teh violence
[14:47:29] <roycroft> the fires were bad too
[14:47:36] <roycroft> where i was camping i could hear the ocean from my tent
[14:47:52] <roycroft> yet smoke from the fires rolled in and was so thick i packed up and went home early
[14:48:59] <roycroft> i've lived in the northwet for 35 years, and never before this year have i seen a fire camp along 101
[14:49:10] <roycroft> but this year i drove past eight fire camps on 101 alone
[14:49:18] <roycroft> and a huge fire camp on 199 (the redwood highway)
[14:49:49] <roycroft> i didn't see any signs of fires in humboldt county though
[14:49:59] <roycroft> it was all in del norte county in california and curry county in oregon
[14:52:29] <roycroft> meanwhile, eugene is hazy again and there's a slight smell of smoke here
[14:53:49] <cradek> http://lincoln.craigslist.org/tls/5123497356.html
[14:56:51] <CaptHindsight> he would have been the typical operator for that lathe when it was built
[14:57:47] <Rab> haha
[14:58:43] <ssi> nah he would have been deburring parts til he was at least 5 before they'd let him run the lathe
[14:58:55] <Tom_itx> cnc that!
[14:59:29] <malcom2073> Want some used robotic army... erm I mean arms?
https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/11950396_10207777734781806_2120812816479523638_o.jpg
[14:59:52] <Tom_itx> must be show n tell today
[15:00:06] <ssi> holy balls
[15:01:38] <ssi> my friend jason says that I'm not allowed to have an army of machine arms
[15:01:42] <malcom2073> Hmm, so it doesn't seem like any of the lines on this encoder output anything at all
[15:01:43] <ssi> "WE'VE SEEN WHAT YOU DO"
[15:01:51] <malcom2073> Could be that not only is the glass chipped, but the electronics are fried too
[15:11:45] <malcom2073> oop nevermind, got it working
[15:11:52] <malcom2073> the circuit board was ever so slightly misaligned
[15:12:03] <malcom2073> I can now see position changing when I manually spin the motor :-D
[15:12:42] <XXCoder> malcom2073: heh would love to have one. for fun, but sure cant afford em lol
[15:13:01] <malcom2073> Heh
[15:13:21] <malcom2073> Indeed, though that's probably a whole project in and of itself figuring out how to control that
[15:13:37] <ssi> I can afford 'em, and the only reason I don't have one or two is I haven't been abl eto arrange moving them :(
[15:14:12] <malcom2073> I'll pick 'em up for ya for a moderate fee :P
[15:14:21] <malcom2073> The fee being: buy me one :-P
[15:14:27] <ssi> how much are the ones up there?
[15:14:33] <malcom2073> $10k this guy is asking for them, each
[15:14:35] <ssi> oh
[15:14:40] <ssi> the ones in bristol are $700
[15:14:47] <malcom2073> Nice heh
[15:14:49] <ssi> I'll buy you one of those if you deliver me two
[15:14:52] <ssi> :D
[15:14:54] <malcom2073> I think he's trying to sell to factories
[15:15:05] <malcom2073> That's actually uh... worth it
[15:15:17] <ssi> get on it!
[15:15:24] <ssi> they have no controls
[15:15:29] <malcom2073> Figure it'll take me a day to get up to michigain to get them, a day to get back, then two days down to you, then two days back. 10k for 6 days work is amazing :P
[15:15:32] <malcom2073> I'll figure out the controls
[15:15:34] <ssi> or rather, the guy has controls but he wants real money for those
[15:15:37] <malcom2073> I'm mgetting good at this
[15:15:46] <ssi> um I mean the $700 ones
[15:15:48] <malcom2073> Haha
[15:15:53] <malcom2073> How far is bristol from you?
[15:15:54] <ssi> I'm not buying $30k worth of anything that doesn't fly
[15:15:56] <ssi> 255 miles
[15:16:58] <malcom2073> It would cost me $556 in fuel to tow my trailer down and get those for ya and come back :P
[15:17:03] <malcom2073> Totally almost worth it haha
[15:17:07] <ssi> hahaha
[15:17:22] <ssi> it would cost me less than 700 to have them freighted but I'd rather pay you an arm to do it
[15:17:28] <ssi> then we can correspond about controlling them :D
[15:17:36] <ssi> I'll pay an arm, but not an arm and a leg
[15:17:38] <ssi> ruffl
[15:17:45] <malcom2073> lol
[15:18:12] <ssi> you could come down, stop in bristol, pick up two, bring them to atlanta and deliver them, then stop in bristol on the way back up and pick up one for you
[15:18:20] <malcom2073> Hey, I could deliver those two 2600mm rails to you at the same time :P
[15:18:24] <ssi> that way you're not towing yours an extra 500 miles
[15:18:29] <ssi> ha yeah
[15:18:34] <malcom2073> Bristol is south of atlanta
[15:18:40] <ssi> not last I checked!
[15:18:43] <malcom2073> erm
[15:18:49] <malcom2073> my map skills elude myself
[15:19:03] <ssi> bristol virginia btw
[15:19:06] <ssi> not tennessee or UK
[15:19:08] <malcom2073> OH!
[15:19:08] <malcom2073> Hahaha
[15:19:09] <ssi> cause UK would be a bit of a haul
[15:19:11] <malcom2073> I was thinking Bristol GA
[15:19:19] <ssi> shit if they were in state I'd have them by now
[15:19:22] <malcom2073> Lol
[15:19:36] <malcom2073> Bristol GA is 255 miles from Atlanta
[15:19:40] <malcom2073> hence my confusion :-P
[15:19:50] <ssi> HAH
[15:20:01] <ssi> bristol va is actually 311
[15:20:08] <ssi> what are the chances i guessed wrong that exactly
[15:20:10] <malcom2073> Nice, that'd cost me less then, since it's on my way
[15:20:26] <PCW> Those have Fanuc serial absolute encoders
[15:20:39] <ssi> PCW: which? the kukas in bristol? or those yellow ones in PA
[15:21:01] <PCW> yellow ones Kuka I dont know
[15:21:28] <PCW> the Fanuc ones show up cheap fairly often also
[15:21:46] <malcom2073> ssi: link 'em?
[15:21:59] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kuka-Roboter-KR150L-150SP-2-Robot-Arm-No-Controller/271659536669#viTabs_0
[15:22:03] <ssi> onoes only 7 left!
[15:22:04] <ssi> hurry!
[15:22:06] <malcom2073> Lol
[15:22:16] <malcom2073> Damn that's a biggun
[15:22:26] <ssi> I spoke with them via email and they said they'd honor the 699 sale price even if it wasn't still running on ebay
[15:22:26] <PetefromTn_> woah that is a beast!
[15:22:52] <malcom2073> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMMIOiwxBS8
[15:22:53] <malcom2073> sexy robot
[15:23:02] <ssi> yeah they're really really nice
[15:23:16] <ssi> I want to put a spindle on one and set it up to carve props
[15:23:29] <malcom2073> Hmm, yeah they're 2600lb, I'd only be able to carry two at a time on the trailer
[15:23:40] <ssi> that works out cause you can go back by on the way home
[15:23:46] <malcom2073> Yep
[15:24:18] <ssi> the place that has them has arm extensions and controls and all sorts of parts for them
[15:24:36] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kuka-16-Robot-Arm-Extension-Robotic-/281338655125?hash=item4181173195
[15:24:57] <malcom2073> Nice
[15:25:14] <ssi> I could fly up there, you could snag me from the airport and I could go with you to check em out, pay for them, help load
[15:25:25] <ssi> then drop me off at the airport, I fly home, and you meet me there
[15:25:28] <ssi> home is at another airport :P
[15:25:34] <ssi> and I have a forklift onsite
[15:25:40] <malcom2073> Nice
[15:25:46] <malcom2073> That's not a bad deal
[15:26:02] <ssi> yeah it'd work out pretty awesome actually
[15:26:12] <ssi> I was originally wanting two of them at $999 each
[15:26:25] <ssi> at the sale price I can afford to buy two and one for you for delivery and spend the same bux
[15:26:33] <malcom2073> hmm no controller, I wonder if the servo drives are internal, or in the controller?
[15:26:40] <ssi> drives are probably in the control
[15:26:46] <blib> ssi: that doesn't look like an arm :)
[15:27:13] <ssi> blib: what doesn't
[15:27:19] <blib> what is it good for?
[15:27:37] <ssi> use your imagination
[15:27:44] <ssi> positioning, welding, pallet changing, milling, whatever
[15:28:12] <ssi> if I get two I can make them sword fight or play ping pong
[15:28:14] <malcom2073> wonder how big those motors are
[15:28:15] <blib> ssi: that is a working motor for $139?
[15:28:15] <malcom2073> Haha
[15:28:23] <ssi> oh no that's just an arm extension
[15:28:27] <ssi> scroll up for a link to the actual arm
[15:28:39] <ssi> malcom2073: look like 500-750W or so
[15:28:44] <malcom2073> ssi: That small?
[15:28:52] <malcom2073> Are they gear reduced?
[15:28:59] <ssi> oh yes heavily
[15:29:02] <malcom2073> Ahhh
[15:29:02] <ssi> it's all harmonic drive
[15:29:05] <malcom2073> Ohh nice
[15:29:08] <malcom2073> love me some harmonics
[15:29:26] <ssi> and 750W is 1hp, which is a pretty damn big servo
[15:29:34] <ssi> my big cinci vmc uses 1kw servos
[15:29:44] <malcom2073> yeah but you can underpower them, and get servo drives for relativly cheap
[15:29:56] <ssi> yeah servo drives are easyp
[15:30:10] <malcom2073> Elmo 600W servo drives I'm fiddling with now are only $50 on ebay used
[15:30:10] <ssi> I have a bunch of amc drives, and we can get good drives from PCW
[15:30:21] <ssi> PCW's drives are 2200W I Think
[15:30:24] <malcom2073> damn haha
[15:30:31] <ssi> and they're like 239 brand new
[15:30:40] <ssi> I have one, I haven't started working with it yet
[15:30:41] <malcom2073> That's not bad at all, but you need 6 of them :P
[15:30:45] <ssi> yeeah I know
[15:30:49] <malcom2073> I'd stick with cheapies to start with
[15:30:57] <malcom2073> maybe get a bigger one for the shoulder motor and the like
[15:31:09] <ssi> yeah I agree, but while you can get cheap drives on ebay, you cant guarantee it
[15:31:15] <ssi> and most of those drives are like 1500 retail
[15:31:23] <malcom2073> True, always buy spares when they're available
[15:31:28] <ssi> oh I do heh
[15:31:35] <ssi> too bad I let zeeshan buy up all the good ones
[15:31:38] <malcom2073> haha
[15:31:39] <ssi> that was a freakin mistake
[15:31:40] <ssi> :D
[15:31:41] <malcom2073> well he should be set for a while :P
[15:31:48] <ssi> no cause he keeps killing them
[15:31:53] <malcom2073> haha
[15:32:01] <ssi> I killed a couple, they were in the house when it burned
[15:32:06] <ssi> they might be salvageable but I dunno
[15:32:15] <malcom2073> hmmm yeah questionable
[15:32:15] <ssi> I had six at one point I think
[15:32:52] <ssi> anyway I'm more concerned about kinematics and CAM than I am servo drives
[15:33:14] <malcom2073> Hehe yeah
[15:33:16] <malcom2073> that's *tough*
[15:33:19] <ssi> yeah
[15:33:27] <ssi> that's why I'd rather you had one than some trucker getting a job
[15:33:31] <malcom2073> Lol
[15:33:31] <ssi> cause I'm going to need the help!
[15:33:50] <malcom2073> So, we have a 7 axis arm at work
[15:34:08] <malcom2073> And there is a room full of engineers and grad students trying to figure out the best way to do kinematics :P
[15:34:13] <ssi> haha
[15:34:24] <ssi> I don't know if we have a kins for linuxcnc that'll cover it
[15:34:26] <ssi> we may have to write one
[15:34:33] <malcom2073> The problem is multiple solutions
[15:34:42] <malcom2073> However, if you are willing to limit motion somewhat
[15:34:48] <malcom2073> You can single-solve most
[15:35:23] <malcom2073> There's a reason they "train" these, rather than relying on computers for tha actual motion calculations haha
[15:35:30] <ssi> yeah
[15:35:43] <malcom2073> ohhhh
[15:35:46] <malcom2073> why not mount your part to the arm
[15:35:49] <malcom2073> and have your spindle stationary
[15:35:54] <ssi> hah that's not a terrible idea
[15:36:00] <malcom2073> You could turn it into a 3-4 axis, but at different angles, giving you 5, possibly 6
[15:36:03] <malcom2073> at 150KG payload, why not
[15:36:17] <ssi> for my prop carving idea, I think a spindle mounted on the arm would work fine
[15:36:25] <ssi> and I could accept relatively limited kins motion
[15:36:30] <ssi> cause my thought is this:
[15:36:45] <malcom2073> Hmm max reach, 3.7 meters. I could use this as a power assist for moving heavy equipment hahaa
[15:38:10] <malcom2073> ssi: One of those axises is air powered it looks like
[15:38:27] <ssi> laminate up a blank, fixture it on the mill and drill the center bolt pattern
[15:38:27] <ssi> then bolt the blank to a stand, like a bench grinder stand
[15:38:27] <ssi> such that everything but the bolt circle is accessible to the spindleu
[15:38:28] <ssi> so it can carve the top and bottom
[15:38:28] <ssi> I think that's feasible
[15:38:28] <ssi> I mean I know it's feasible, I just dunno how to make the CAM and kins work out offhand
[15:38:28] <ssi> ugh lagging out
[15:38:34] <malcom2073> Lol indeed you are laggign
[15:38:34] <ssi> malcom2073: I don't think so
[15:38:41] <ssi> I think that's an accumulator for the welder or something
[15:38:56] <malcom2073> Look at the piston looking thing with the gauge, below the accumulator tank
[15:39:22] <malcom2073> hmm no, it's going the wrong way
[15:39:23] <malcom2073> nevermind
[15:40:52] <ssi> if I was really awesome, I'd set one up to load and unload my vmc
[15:40:53] <ssi> hahah
[15:42:13] <ssi> "I saw a Kuka KR150 industrial robot in person recently and it blew my mind. 9 foot reach, 300+ pound capacity, 6 axes, fast as hell. It was like staring the future right in the face. The experience in one word: Fear."
[15:42:34] <malcom2073> haha
[15:44:45] <malcom2073> Jesus those things are fast
[15:44:47] <malcom2073> looking at some videos
[15:44:50] <ssi> yeah they are
[15:45:03] <ssi> I've read anecdotes about them going apeshit and wrecking stuff
[15:45:05] <ssi> flinging parts
[15:45:15] <ssi> this is gonna be one for the record books :D
[15:45:24] <malcom2073> Lol
[15:45:32] <malcom2073> hmmm
[15:46:54] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/tls/5169827675.html
[15:46:59] <ssi> that'd be a nice little machine to have but too much money
[15:47:44] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/tls/5191176768.html
[15:47:45] <ssi> OOOOOO
[15:47:53] <malcom2073> Now that's a slab!
[15:48:00] <ssi> yeah that's freakin nice
[15:48:02] <ssi> I wonder what it weighs
[15:48:27] <ssi> MATH TIME
[15:49:42] <ssi> back of the envelope suggests 1100kg
[15:49:44] <ssi> for the slab
[15:49:55] <malcom2073> Heh
[15:49:55] <ssi> that's a smidge more than I ought to put on my wee utility trailer
[15:50:05] <ssi> it'd probably be fine but it's overweight
[15:50:52] <malcom2073> Just drive slow
[15:51:03] <ssi> :P
[15:51:31] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3j0s6ZIQAA_KpF.jpg:large
[15:52:12] <malcom2073> Hahaha nice
[15:52:16] <malcom2073> You need a bigger car
[15:52:17] <malcom2073> and trailer
[15:52:29] <malcom2073> But no need for larger cajones, I think you've got that covered
[15:52:31] <ssi> I want a diesel flatbed dually
[15:52:41] <ssi> ha you have no idea
[15:53:18] <ssi> I wonder what grade that slab is
[15:53:32] <malcom2073> Large.
[15:53:37] <ssi> :D
[15:53:44] <malcom2073> We had a 5x10 slab at work
[15:53:50] <malcom2073> It was about 10" thick
[15:54:06] <malcom2073> I wasn't sure *why* they had such a large slab, we never did parts that big
[15:54:29] <ssi> I don't really have an immediate need for a 4x5 plate, but it would come in handy if I start doing work on lycomings
[15:54:43] <ssi> that's big enough to comfortably spot an O540 case half on
[15:54:52] <ssi> or three at a time lol
[15:55:17] <ssi> well that's an easy decision, he sold it already
[15:55:27] <malcom2073> lol
[15:55:37] <malcom2073> food time, brb
[15:57:02] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/tls/5172857427.html
[15:57:07] <ssi> that looks beyond my budget :P
[15:57:54] <MacGalempsy> good afternoon all
[15:59:17] <ssi> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/tld/5082129839.html
[15:59:18] <ssi> wow
[16:19:44] <Wolf_> dunno if that mill is big enough
[16:20:20] <ssi> could be bigger
[16:20:46] <Wolf_> I think I could fit most of my current machine bench on it
[16:21:22] <MacGalempsy> ssi: that thing is a beast
[16:21:27] <ssi> yeahhhh
[16:21:50] <ssi> they have a couple of big ass manual machines like that at that place in stone mountain
[16:21:53] <ssi> and they're all around 3k
[16:22:05] <MacGalempsy> how much to deliver?
[16:22:07] <MacGalempsy> heh
[16:22:08] <ssi> it's crazy how much machine you can buy for 3k if you have the means to move, setup, and power it
[16:22:20] <Wolf_> and chuck the x1 quill directly in to it, I would have a x1 that could rigid tap then :D
[16:22:26] <ssi> MacGalempsy: rigger would probably cost me $2500 to move it 30 miles
[16:22:46] <ssi> oh that one's only 5k
[16:22:50] <ssi> I could handle that one myself
[16:22:54] <ssi> the other one I was looking at is 10k
[16:22:59] <malcom2073> Heh
[16:22:59] <ssi> 10k I have to get help with
[16:23:14] <Wolf_> I’m thinking of setting up a flat bed for my truck just for moving machines :
[16:23:22] <malcom2073> I need to get a fork truck of some kind
[16:23:28] <malcom2073> something small footprint, that I can load on my trailer
[16:23:47] <ssi> what's teh capacity of your trailer
[16:24:33] <MacGalempsy> Have you guys seen the mostly printable CNC on thingiverse?
[16:25:02] <Wolf_> I would do a lowering trailer setup + pallet jack before trying to move a machine + fork truck around
[16:25:33] <ssi> I just want a nice flatbed truck and a nice 13klb trailer to pull behind it for bigger machines
[16:25:50] <ssi> I can rent a big forklift when I need to unload something beyond the capacity of my forklift
[16:26:20] <Wolf_> >
http://i.imgur.com/yERX7l3.jpg my truck
[16:26:47] <ssi> I could do without the dump bed, but other than that that's about what I want
[16:27:08] <Wolf_> heh, its not a dump truck…
[16:27:35] <malcom2073> ssi: 7000lbs
[16:27:36] <ssi> I know, but the sides make it less convenient for loading machines
[16:27:44] <ssi> malcom2073: 5k lift trucks are 9k+
[16:27:47] <Wolf_> ssi:
http://i.imgur.com/UM3Rf8L.jpg
[16:27:50] <malcom2073> ssi: I know :(
[16:28:01] <malcom2073> I only have a 1/2 ton truck to pull it anyway heh
[16:28:02] <Wolf_> drop body/hook truck
[16:28:11] <MacGalempsy> Wolf_: long as a whore's dream!
[16:28:14] <ssi> too much complexity for me :P
[16:28:19] <malcom2073> I need a duelie, and a flatbed gooseneck
[16:29:36] <Wolf_> we are planning on building a gooseneck for my truck too, just needs to be under 32’ lol
[16:30:02] <malcom2073> I have an expedition, so I'm fairly limited in what I can pull
[16:30:07] <malcom2073> my trailer isabout at the limit
[16:31:21] <Deejay> gn8
[16:32:06] <Wolf_> hook is handy tho, use it as a makeshift crane at times
http://i.imgur.com/2sUyYXt.jpg
[16:33:19] <ssi> lol
[16:34:13] <Wolf_> suck at backing up a trailer, no problem
http://i.imgur.com/YNpCZ0O.jpg
[16:34:53] <Wolf_> :)
[16:49:27] <bobo_> ssi:I think you would enjoy stopping for a visit at metal lathe,in pine grove mills,Pa. think the owners name is Andy.
[16:52:55] <ssi> I spoke to him on the phone about five hours ago
[16:53:25] <ssi> Andy Lofquist
[16:53:47] <zeeshan> bobo you creeper
[16:53:57] <zeeshan> you randomly show up and join the conversation
[16:53:57] <zeeshan> haha
[16:54:08] <ssi> lol
[16:54:20] <zeeshan> :D
[16:54:56] <ssi> zeeshan: wanna see something that'll make you slightly sick to your stomach with envf?
[16:54:59] <ssi> envy
[16:55:00] <zeeshan> yes
[16:55:03] <ssi> http://www.lindsayengraving.com/tour/
[16:55:32] <zeeshan> sorry
[16:55:36] <zeeshan> manual machines dont do it for me
[16:55:36] <zeeshan> :{
[16:55:38] <ssi> lol
[16:55:40] <ssi> usux
[16:55:43] <zeeshan> but holy cow
[16:55:51] <zeeshan> that scraping onthat first vertical shaper
[16:55:53] <zeeshan> sexy!
[16:55:54] <ssi> yeah
[16:55:56] <ssi> crazyness
[16:56:05] <zeeshan> does this guy even use his machines?
[16:56:07] <zeeshan> theyre too clean
[16:56:13] <ssi> I think he just likes to restore them :)
[16:56:17] <zeeshan> ah
[16:56:23] <zeeshan> that monarch
[16:56:23] <zeeshan> sexy
[16:56:29] <ssi> yeah I want a monarch :(
[16:56:33] <zeeshan> you klnow when i went to look @ the monarch
[16:56:35] <zeeshan> i loved it
[16:56:37] <zeeshan> the 18ee or whatever
[16:56:43] <zeeshan> but theres one flaw with it that i didnt realize
[16:56:46] <zeeshan> it only spins to 600 rpm
[16:56:52] <zeeshan> the one i was looking at
[16:57:01] <zeeshan> it's really meant for big heavy duty turning
[16:57:06] <ssi> yeah
[16:57:07] <zeeshan> didnt know that
[16:57:31] <zeeshan> wow
[16:57:39] <zeeshan> that hardinge cataract
[16:57:43] <zeeshan> that puts sherline to shame
[16:57:46] <ssi> yeah I know!
[16:57:47] <zeeshan> ROFL
[16:57:48] <ssi> I love hardinge stuff
[16:57:51] <zeeshan> look at that thing!
[16:57:52] <ssi> they make the nicest small machines out there
[16:58:03] <ssi> it'd be fun to make some patterns and try to scratchbuild a machine like that
[16:58:11] <zeeshan> yea
[16:58:14] <zeeshan> definitely dooable
[16:58:23] <ssi> when I talked to Andy Lofquist today, I was asking him about his t-slot cross slide that he makes for the SB9/10K
[16:58:30] <ssi> he said it can be made to fit the heavy 10, but it's a bit small
[16:58:41] <ssi> he suggested if I was really interested I should make a pattern and have a foundry cast me a one off
[16:58:44] <ssi> that it's not that expensive
[16:58:52] <zeeshan> th e pattern is most expensive
[16:58:54] <ssi> he works with an amish foundry in PA that does small runs
[16:58:55] <zeeshan> i looked into this a while back
[16:59:00] <ssi> you can make the pattern out of wood
[16:59:05] <zeeshan> i wanted to make exhaust manifolds
[16:59:05] <ssi> doesn't have to be expensive, just time consuming
[16:59:08] <zeeshan> and cast em in stainless
[16:59:10] <bobo_> ssi call andy back and ask for a time to visit, but do not expect to see Lindsay type shop.
[16:59:11] <zeeshan> pour cost was only $200..
[16:59:16] <zeeshan> for about 30lb of metal
[16:59:24] <zeeshan> but it had to be a full sand mold
[16:59:26] <zeeshan> ready to go
[16:59:39] <ssi> bobo_: I would love to visit if I get the opportunity
[16:59:54] <zeeshan> bobo_: how do you randomly show up
[16:59:59] <zeeshan> you havent answered! :P
[17:00:21] <ssi> zeeshan:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/machining-t-slotted-cross-slide-177054/
[17:00:28] <ssi> there's someone finishing one of his cross slides
[17:00:50] <ssi> zeeshan: and he makes the castings for the die filer the clock guy has
[17:00:51] <ssi> http://www.clickspringprojects.com/die-filer-or-bench-filing-machine.html
[17:00:58] <zeeshan> ah
[17:01:00] <ssi> that's what I ordered from him today... that and his boring/facing head
[17:01:24] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Got my quadrature figured out, swapped the motor with the broken encoder for a motor with a working one... it reads position when turning manually!
[17:01:29] <malcom2073> Next step: Apply powah!
[17:01:35] <zeeshan> nice :D
[17:01:57] <malcom2073> It seems that this drive automatically figures shit out
[17:01:58] <malcom2073> based on inputs
[17:02:02] <malcom2073> It automatically figures out motor type too
[17:02:02] <ssi> malcom2073: which drive?
[17:02:07] <malcom2073> ssi: Elmo Harmonica
[17:02:21] <ssi> ah nice
[17:02:46] <malcom2073> Now, if I hook up the DC side backwards, it'll just spin out of control, this will be fun!
[17:02:55] <bobo_> Mr zeeshan I mostly look,and show up when there is time. also, did you buy more when the market was down ?
[17:03:14] <zeeshan> bought nothin ;p
[17:03:19] <zeeshan> but i did transfer all my usd to cad
[17:03:26] <zeeshan> cause your dollar might crash
[17:03:35] <ssi> lol might!
[17:03:40] <zeeshan> theres a pretty big chance
[17:03:45] <zeeshan> that it crashes in oct
[17:03:46] <ssi> I hedge against the dollar with bitcoin and gold :)
[17:04:04] <zeeshan> by crash i mean go from 1.30 cad
[17:04:09] <zeeshan> back to in part with the cad
[17:04:17] <zeeshan> which it was before
[17:04:32] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:04:35] <zeeshan> thats smart man
[17:04:40] <zeeshan> apparently gold is going to go to 4000 / oz
[17:04:47] <ssi> well lets hope so
[17:04:47] <zeeshan> when the usd crashes
[17:04:53] <ssi> it's been being manipulated pretty heavily lately
[17:05:02] <ssi> I bought a platinum eagle recently too
[17:05:20] <zeeshan> @ the end of the day
[17:05:27] <zeeshan> you cant go wrong with commodities
[17:05:29] <zeeshan> its not as liquid
[17:05:32] <zeeshan> but its relatively safe
[17:05:36] <ssi> I like it for a few reasons
[17:05:44] <ssi> it's a good hedge against the dollar and economic downturn
[17:05:51] <zeeshan> yes
[17:05:54] <ssi> it lets me effectively hide money from myself because of illiquidity
[17:05:59] <ssi> and it's shiny and fun to hold
[17:05:59] <zeeshan> rofl
[17:06:46] <zeeshan> http://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-gold-and-oil-chart-last-ten-years
[17:06:49] <zeeshan> ignore the black line for oil
[17:07:00] <zeeshan> i think its pretty cool
[17:07:04] <zeeshan> how as the usd drops
[17:07:09] <zeeshan> gold increases almost in proportion
[17:07:24] <ssi> as you'd expect
[17:07:25] <zeeshan> you can see basically our mentality showing there :P
[17:07:34] <ssi> because gold is wealth, and the dollar isn't
[17:07:42] <ssi> you can print dollars, you can't print wealth
[17:07:51] <zeeshan> yup
[17:08:01] <ssi> now when you can 3d print gold coins that may change
[17:08:03] <zeeshan> only real way to hurt the dollar is
[17:08:07] <malcom2073> Hmm, motor holds for a second, then gives overspeed error haha
[17:08:11] <zeeshan> if you all the sudden have an excess amount of it being found
[17:08:11] <ssi> the makertards are convinced that soon you'll be able to 3d print anything
[17:08:17] <zeeshan> haha
[17:08:20] <ssi> I actually saw a comment somewhere about how soon you'll be able to 3d print drugs
[17:08:22] <zeeshan> a 3d printed coin
[17:08:26] <zeeshan> that costs more the gold you have in it?
[17:08:27] <zeeshan> :P
[17:08:34] <zeeshan> than
[17:08:52] <ssi> here's a fun exercise for you
[17:09:00] <ssi> look up the average price of a car in 1935
[17:09:09] <ssi> gold was $35/oz then
[17:09:15] <ssi> find the number of ounces of gold it would take to buy said car
[17:09:23] <zeeshan> just tell me
[17:09:23] <zeeshan> :P
[17:09:25] <ssi> then figure out how much that number of ounces of gold is worth today
[17:09:38] <ssi> if I remember correctly, it's like $608
[17:09:40] <ssi> about 17 ouncesn
[17:09:43] <zeeshan> rofl
[17:09:44] <ssi> which is hovering around $20k right now
[17:09:45] <zeeshan> nice
[17:09:58] <ssi> gold is a pretty fixed store of value
[17:09:59] <zeeshan> lb of gold
[17:10:00] <zeeshan> nice
[17:11:10] <malcom2073> Arg, now I need to figure out how the hell to use elmo's software to configure this drive
[17:11:24] <ssi> is the software called "tickle me servo"?
[17:11:59] <malcom2073> bwahaha
[17:12:03] <CaptHindsight> but cars didn't cost 50% more 2 years ago then now, so I don't understand
[17:12:04] <malcom2073> that'd be great
[17:12:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/gold.aspx?timeframe=10y
[17:12:25] <ssi> CaptHindsight: nothing is absolute, and bubbles are a thing :)
[17:12:37] <ssi> I think gold is actually undervalued at the moment, because of paper market manipulation
[17:12:44] <ssi> but it was certainly overvalued a few years ago
[17:14:16] <ssi> and fwiw it would have made cars 33% less, not 50% more
[17:14:31] <ssi> er nm you're right
[17:14:38] <CaptHindsight> it's ok
[17:17:31] <bobo_> zeeshan: have you considered (for the wood thing'y) super glue or some of the glues your Dad uses ?
[17:18:28] <ssi> bobo_: do you just keep a big table of old conversations to drop back into? ;)
[17:18:49] <zeeshan> rofl
[17:19:01] <zeeshan> i dont even know what youre talking about!! :P
[17:19:09] <bobo_> you are on the list
[17:19:19] <zeeshan> Hit list
[17:19:19] <zeeshan> :{
[17:19:22] <ssi> D:
[17:22:16] <malcom2073> It spins zeeshan! It spins!
[17:22:36] <ssi> tell it to put zeeshan down!
[17:22:45] <zeeshan> rofl
[17:25:22] <malcom2073> Need tuning
[17:25:48] <ssi> malcom2073: velocity mode?
[17:25:55] <malcom2073> ssi: Position
[17:25:56] <zeeshan> ssi his drives are crazy
[17:26:00] <ssi> oh hell
[17:26:02] <zeeshan> they take all sorts of inputs
[17:26:06] <ssi> what in the world are you using them for
[17:26:10] <zeeshan> like even frigging sin cos
[17:26:15] <bobo_> zeeshan you were talking about how to hold the stabilized wood for milling . instead of screwed to a mandrel ,could you use super glue to a mandrel?
[17:26:24] <zeeshan> bobo_: no
[17:26:30] <zeeshan> i already am building the mandrels :P
[17:26:37] <zeeshan> i think itll be stronger
[17:26:48] <malcom2073> ssi: These drives take step/direction input
[17:26:51] <malcom2073> and will drive my servos :-D
[17:26:54] <ssi> aw crap
[17:27:02] <ssi> are they not capable of velocity mode?
[17:27:05] <malcom2073> They are I beleive
[17:27:11] <ssi> why not use them that way?
[17:27:14] <malcom2073> I'd need a mesa to drive them
[17:27:18] <ssi> I hate step/dir servos :P
[17:27:19] <malcom2073> In which case, I'd just use the other drivers
[17:27:36] <ssi> um
[17:27:39] <zeeshan> whats wrong with have a pid loop in the drive
[17:27:41] <zeeshan> for position?
[17:27:44] <zeeshan> vs doing it through linuxcnc
[17:27:49] <ssi> zeeshan: because then linuxcnc is open loop
[17:27:51] <ssi> like mach
[17:27:55] <ssi> and that's lame
[17:28:05] <malcom2073> ssi: The idea behind this is to get my machine running on minimal cost
[17:28:07] <malcom2073> these drives were free
[17:28:09] <zeeshan> but it wont ever lose position?
[17:28:42] <zeeshan> (not trying to argue)
[17:28:45] <zeeshan> (trying to see why its bad)
[17:28:50] <ssi> but you have the same stepgen limitations
[17:29:05] <ssi> you have to be able to generate jitter free steps at a high enough rate for your velocity
[17:29:12] <ssi> and/or precision desired
[17:29:18] <zeeshan> thats not gonna happen through a parallel port
[17:29:19] <zeeshan> i agree
[17:29:22] <malcom2073> Sure it is
[17:29:23] <zeeshan> but im saying say you had a step dir mesa
[17:29:25] <malcom2073> I don't move fast
[17:29:36] <malcom2073> and I also happen to have a step/dir mesa
[17:29:36] <zeeshan> whats wrong with linuxcnc being in open loop
[17:29:40] <zeeshan> and letting the drive control position
[17:29:47] <ssi> I dunno, it's just hacky imo
[17:29:52] <zeeshan> i feel like its hacky too
[17:29:52] <zeeshan> lol
[17:29:55] <malcom2073> Me too
[17:29:56] <zeeshan> but i cant say why
[17:29:57] <malcom2073> It's a stopgap
[17:30:03] <zeeshan> like first of all
[17:30:06] <zeeshan> you wont ferror out
[17:30:08] <ssi> malcom2073: fair enough
[17:30:09] <zeeshan> but maybe you can do that in the drive
[17:30:19] <zeeshan> and output a signal from the drive
[17:30:21] <zeeshan> likely you can do that
[17:30:26] <malcom2073> This is to get me up and running, so my scrap price mill sitting in my garage can stop being a piece of freaking scrap
[17:30:49] <ssi> malcom2073: how many of those elmo drives do you have?
[17:30:53] <zeeshan> ssi the only thing i can think of is this:
[17:30:58] <malcom2073> ssi: 3 8amp ones, 1 5amp one
[17:31:03] <zeeshan> say you tell linuxcnc 20in/s^2 , 20in/s , and move 1"
[17:31:09] <ssi> 8amp continuous?
[17:31:15] <zeeshan> but during that 1" you're about to hit a limit switch
[17:31:20] <malcom2073> It says continuous, but they're only rated for 660w
[17:31:23] <malcom2073> at 100v
[17:31:27] <ssi> ah ok
[17:31:30] <zeeshan> i wonder if that will be a weird situation where things go crazy
[17:31:31] <ssi> too small for me
[17:32:07] <malcom2073> Yeah they're small
[17:32:09] <ssi> zeeshan: yeah I don't know how that's gonna work
[17:32:26] <ssi> but an unexpected limit fault is a high energy event in any servo system
[17:32:37] <zeeshan> yes but im talkin about the soft limit
[17:32:46] <ssi> oh well linuxcnc's tp anticipates the soft limits
[17:32:51] <ssi> so it'd decel to the limit I'm pretty sure
[17:32:59] <zeeshan> but if you have told linuxcnc
[17:33:01] <zeeshan> that its 20in/s
[17:33:05] <zeeshan> er 20in/s^2
[17:33:16] <zeeshan> but in reality it was only 10in/s^2 at the drive
[17:33:18] <zeeshan> now you have an error
[17:33:18] <ssi> if you overaccel a stepper, it just stalls
[17:33:28] <ssi> I don't know what happens if you overaccel one of these stepdir servo drives
[17:33:30] <ssi> probably it faults
[17:33:43] <malcom2073> Yeah it faults
[17:33:49] <malcom2073> gives a tracking error
[17:34:00] <malcom2073> I can pipe that to a digital output and detect that in linuxcnc to kill power
[17:34:03] <zeeshan> okay so if you have a 0.001" tracking error
[17:34:08] <zeeshan> then you never have an issue then
[17:34:23] <zeeshan> i dont think that fault is going to stop the drive
[17:34:24] <zeeshan> fast enough
[17:34:27] <zeeshan> and linuxcnc will lose position
[17:34:40] <zeeshan> i mean, that fault isn't going to reach linuxcnc fast enough
[17:34:46] <zeeshan> and linuxcnc will lose a couple thou position
[17:34:56] <malcom2073> Yeah, that's fine
[17:35:04] <zeeshan> no its not
[17:35:05] <malcom2073> Just like real steppers
[17:35:05] <zeeshan> lol
[17:35:18] <zeeshan> malcom2073: by any chance do you own a 3d printer
[17:35:24] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Shushit.
[17:35:38] <zeeshan> :)
[17:35:46] <malcom2073> Hey, I'm *trying* servos, aren't I? :)
[17:35:57] <zeeshan> hey its your macine
[17:36:03] <zeeshan> you can do what you like :P
[17:36:09] <malcom2073> lol
[17:36:11] <zeeshan> we're just eating ice cream and enjoying the show
[17:37:02] <zeeshan> http://www.thespec.com/whatson-story/5816800-man-who-spent-100k-to-look-like-justin-bieber-found-dead/
[17:37:02] <zeeshan> lol
[17:37:04] <zeeshan> i cant stop laughing
[17:37:06] <zeeshan> i feel bad
[17:37:31] <malcom2073> Hmm even in velocity mode, it sounds crunchy
[17:38:14] <malcom2073> in current mode it's smooth
[17:38:17] <malcom2073> so it's a PID issue
[17:38:41] <ssi> what's your velocity feedback?
[17:38:42] <ssi> encoder?
[17:38:45] <malcom2073> yeah
[17:39:22] <ssi> brushless motors?
[17:39:23] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: I wonder if he was a male escort
[17:39:32] <MacGalempsy> dead in a motel bedroom?
[17:39:34] <malcom2073> ssi: No, brushed
[17:39:37] <ssi> ah ok
[17:39:40] <zeeshan> no idea MacGalempsy
[17:39:45] <zeeshan> but why would you do that to your body
[17:39:47] <zeeshan> that's like saying
[17:40:05] <zeeshan> i wanna transform my haas cnc
[17:40:07] <zeeshan> to a 3d printer
[17:40:13] <zeeshan> :P
[17:40:24] <ssi> do it
[17:40:52] <MacGalempsy> speaking of
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:776358
[17:41:03] <ssi> lolololol
[17:41:07] <malcom2073> Ohh I can adjust KP/KI
[17:41:25] <ssi> malcom2073: does the manual for the drive have any notes on tuning for velocity mode?
[17:41:42] <ssi> you'd probably start by setting KI to zero and running KP up til it oscillates then backing off til stable
[17:42:01] <malcom2073> Hah no notes on tuning, just tells me where to enter stuff in
[17:42:09] <zeeshan> you need zieger nichols
[17:42:10] <zeeshan> ok?
[17:42:14] <ssi> lol here we go
[17:42:15] <zeeshan> :D
[17:42:15] <zeeshan> :D
[17:42:16] <zeeshan> :D
[17:42:44] <ssi> start my creating a precise mathematical model of your motor, coupling, ballscrew, ballnut, ways, saddle, table, and workpiece
[17:42:52] <ssi> s/my/by/
[17:43:07] <malcom2073> ohhhh, much smoother
[17:43:08] <malcom2073> sweet
[17:43:13] <ssi> malcom2073: what'd you use?
[17:43:41] <malcom2073> ssi: KP: 100, KI:0. It does oscillate around the set point a bit
[17:44:28] <ssi> as long as it's a small oscillation and it doesn't have any zero setpoint velocity drift that's probably adequate for velocity loop tuning
[17:44:45] <ssi> as I do my position loop in linuxcnc I dunno what to tell you about position loop tuning :)
[17:44:55] <ssi> linuxcnc has the great benefit of being able to see the future
[17:44:58] <Wolf_Mill> why am I converting a x1 when I could have made
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:724999 ...
[17:45:00] <ssi> feedforward makes tuning much easier :)
[17:45:02] <Wolf_Mill> =D
[17:45:23] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: because you want to cut someting harder than MDF probably
[17:45:51] <Wolf_Mill> well, yeah :)
[17:48:21] <PetefromTn_> jeez whats next tinfoil and toothpicks?
[17:48:42] <ssi> PetefromTn_: YES I'll get started on the kickstarter right away!
[17:48:57] <PetefromTn_> Ooh cool have fun with that man!
[17:49:04] <ssi> :D
[17:53:16] <ssi> I need to make a lead hammer
[17:53:44] <PetefromTn_> so whats stopping ya?
[17:53:49] <ssi> I'm at work
[17:53:51] <ssi> heh
[17:53:54] <ssi> 30 miles of commute
[17:54:02] <ssi> plus the inevitable sleepy apathy I'll obtain before I get home
[17:54:13] <PetefromTn_> I hear ya..
[17:54:16] <ssi> I have like 400 pounds of lead
[17:54:26] <ssi> but I need to come up with an appropriate handle and make a mold
[17:54:29] <PetefromTn_> I have a bunch of parts I need to machine here over the weekend
[17:57:27] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#hammer-molds/=yol5h7
[17:57:28] <ssi> lol
[17:57:41] <ssi> I can spend <$30 on a hammer, or $100 on the shit to make one not including the lead
[17:58:00] <PetefromTn_> I have actually poured lead in a wood mold before...
[17:58:01] <ssi> or a buttload of time making a handle from wood and machining a mold from aluminum
[17:58:05] <ssi> hahaha
[17:58:17] <PetefromTn_> laugh but it worked good
[17:58:22] <ssi> oh I'm sure
[17:58:25] <PetefromTn_> it burns of course
[17:58:35] <PetefromTn_> but the wood did not catch fire
[17:58:43] <malcom2073> holy hell this software is crap heh
[17:58:50] <PetefromTn_> I forgot what I was making
[17:58:55] <PetefromTn_> but it worked LOL
[17:59:07] <PetefromTn_> there is a bunch of shrinkage too as I recall
[17:59:34] <PetefromTn_> what do you need a lead hammer for?
[17:59:40] <ssi> they're just handy
[17:59:51] <ssi> good for whackin shit into alignment without marring it
[18:00:25] <PetefromTn_> I have this double headed mallet I use on the mill and it is really great for that. One side is kind of a hard plastic the other is kind of a hard rubber
[18:00:32] <ssi> yea I have some of those
[18:01:28] <Wolf_Mill> I have a brass faced dead blow
[18:01:40] <PetefromTn_> best hammer I ever saw for that my machinist friend has. It is a relatively heavy mallet with a cast head that has some kinda heavy rubber tips on it. It is really great and I asked him to sell it to me....he declined :(
[18:02:24] <moorbo> no-one sells a good hammer/tool
[18:02:27] <PetefromTn_> he also mentioned that he once broke the handle and installed a new shorter handle in it.
[18:02:38] <moorbo> i have a crate hammer from 1904 made by bridgepor
[18:02:39] <moorbo> t
[18:02:43] <moorbo> before they dissolved
[18:02:43] <PetefromTn_> that thing is perfect for working on metal parts
[18:02:48] <moorbo> I bring it with me everywhere
[18:02:53] <ssi> it's amazing how some hammers just feel good
[18:02:55] <ssi> mostly old ones
[18:02:59] <moorbo> ^
[18:03:03] <PetefromTn_> I tried to find one like it but failed
[18:03:05] <ssi> I have a tiny old ballpeen hammer that was my grandfather's and I love it
[18:03:09] <ssi> but the handle is broken
[18:03:18] <PetefromTn_> LOL I have one JUST LIKE THAT
[18:03:23] <PetefromTn_> it was my Grandfathers too
[18:03:28] <PetefromTn_> tiny ball peen
[18:03:35] <PetefromTn_> I love that thing
[18:03:37] <Wolf_Mill> i too have a really old mini ballpeen
[18:03:58] <PetefromTn_> I think the head is like 2.5 inches long or something
[18:04:30] <moorbo> http://s291.photobucket.com/user/multimat426/media/Bridgeport%20multitool/00d0e9f0.jpg.html
[18:04:32] <moorbo> this is my hammer
[18:04:51] <moorbo> it literally has "the hooker" stamped into it
[18:04:57] <ssi> ha nice
[18:05:05] <Wolf_Mill> http://amzn.com/B00EGSF1XI looks nice
[18:05:35] <ssi> zeeshan: did you ever finish your sextoy hammer?
[18:05:54] <zeeshan> no
[18:05:57] <zeeshan> itll take a couple weeks
[18:06:06] <zeeshan> id like to finish the fixture building this weekend
[18:06:13] <zeeshan> but i gott amake a coolant tank for my noga first
[18:06:31] <PetefromTn_> pop bottle ;)
[18:06:49] <zeeshan> haha
[18:06:53] <zeeshan> pete did you see what came up with
[18:06:56] <zeeshan> i think its a bit complex
[18:06:58] <zeeshan> but itll work
[18:07:01] <zeeshan> and should take a couple hours
[18:07:14] <PetefromTn_> if you came up with it I am SURE it is complex
[18:07:19] <ssi> lolol
[18:07:23] <zeeshan> ghahaha
[18:07:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Z2FVf60.png
[18:07:31] <zeeshan> i have that 4" tube and end caps already
[18:07:33] <zeeshan> er 3"
[18:07:40] <zeeshan> cause ive made surge tanks for fuel systems w/ it
[18:07:52] <zeeshan> the time consuming part will be the top part with all the fittings in it
[18:07:57] <PetefromTn_> that is not what I expected
[18:08:16] <PetefromTn_> I think you should make a KICKASS polished stainless tank all Tig welded
[18:08:22] <zeeshan> haha
[18:08:24] <PetefromTn_> with beauty welds
[18:08:26] <zeeshan> i only got aluminum in this size
[18:08:26] <zeeshan> :(
[18:08:27] <ssi> ha yes
[18:08:29] <PetefromTn_> and polished fittings
[18:08:37] <PetefromTn_> OK that will work too
[18:08:50] <PetefromTn_> but it's GOTTA be polished....I am talking Freakin' Mirror
[18:08:55] <zeeshan> hahaha
[18:08:57] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[18:08:58] <ssi> clearly
[18:09:04] <zeeshan> f aluminum polishing
[18:09:09] <ssi> eh it's not that bad
[18:09:09] <zeeshan> that stuff scratchs during polishing
[18:09:19] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[18:09:22] <zeeshan> :P
[18:09:34] <malcom2073> ssi: The driver has feed forward :-D
[18:09:42] <Wolf_Mill> alum polishing isnt bad if you have the crap to do it with
[18:09:44] <ssi> malcom2073: ha nice
[18:09:49] <zeeshan> its definitely not bad
[18:09:54] <zeeshan> but its hard to keep scratches off it
[18:10:05] <zeeshan> almost all the ricer guys want their aluminun intercooler pipes polished
[18:10:11] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[18:10:12] <PetefromTn_> Okay then POP BOTTLE!!
[18:10:15] <zeeshan> lol
[18:10:19] <zeeshan> bloody pop bottle
[18:10:26] <Wolf_Mill> try 22.5 wheels sometime
[18:10:27] <zeeshan> i dont know why that irritates me
[18:10:28] <ssi> no, a clean pop bottle
[18:10:32] <zeeshan> you got this cool mill
[18:10:39] <zeeshan> and all the sudden theres this big ass 2L pop bottle on it
[18:10:44] <zeeshan> and you go 'wtf is this'
[18:10:47] <PetefromTn_> hehe I love it
[18:10:50] <zeeshan> and takes a ltitle while to realize what it is
[18:10:50] <zeeshan> haha
[18:11:18] <PetefromTn_> you could buy a big stainless deep pot and tig weld a plate for a top on it.....then POLISH
[18:11:27] * Wolf_Mill would need to use a 20oz on his mill to keep the scale right
[18:11:31] <zeeshan> ive never tried that
[18:11:37] <zeeshan> i wonder what grade of stainless those pots are
[18:11:41] <zeeshan> prolly 304 cause it forms easily
[18:11:44] <PetefromTn_> probably crap
[18:11:49] <PetefromTn_> but its just a bottle
[18:11:54] <ssi> zeeshan: here's something hilarious for you
[18:12:01] <ssi> piper brake fluid reservoir
[18:12:01] <zeeshan> the bottle is seeing 60psi though
[18:12:02] <PetefromTn_> it would have a nice radiused bottom tho
[18:12:05] <ssi> used on pretty much all piper aircraft
[18:12:28] <ssi> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/SHMAAOSwxCxT4P18/$_35.JPG
[18:12:36] <zeeshan> lol
[18:12:37] <ssi> it's just a little metal can, same can that solvents and catalysts and stuff come in
[18:12:37] <zeeshan> are you serious
[18:12:41] <ssi> with fittings brazed on
[18:12:43] <ssi> dead serious
[18:12:44] <zeeshan> haha
[18:12:48] <PetefromTn_> I dont see anything
[18:12:59] <ssi> and it's a pma certified part
[18:13:02] <zeeshan> it looks like a rapid tap can PetefromTn_
[18:13:03] <ssi> they're extremely expensive new
[18:13:07] <ssi> yeah pretty much
[18:13:19] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Piper-Brake-Fluid-Cylinder-Reservoir-P-N-63355-009-5080-/111101705348
[18:13:20] <PetefromTn_> Didn't think Pipers even had brakes LOL
[18:13:34] <PetefromTn_> thats great
[18:13:36] <zeeshan> rofl @ pn on that
[18:13:37] <zeeshan> hahaha
[18:13:40] <PetefromTn_> Zeeshan should do that
[18:13:41] <zeeshan> part number and everything!
[18:13:41] <zeeshan> i love it
[18:14:15] <PetefromTn_> get one of those old jerry cans
[18:14:21] <ssi> PetefromTn_:
http://a1aeroservices.com/welcome/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/aztec-pic-001.jpg is that something that looks like it doesn't need brakes? :P
[18:14:32] <zeeshan> wow thats a sexy plane
[18:14:47] <ssi> uses the same brake reservoir :P
[18:14:48] <zeeshan> compared to a cessena
[18:14:48] <zeeshan> lol
[18:14:49] <PetefromTn_> no reversing I guess ;)
[18:15:15] <ssi> no most piston engines can't do reverse
[18:16:02] <ssi> the reservoir supplied with the RV kits
[18:16:02] <ssi> http://www.kalinskyconsulting.com/rvproj/images/20090826_1.jpg
[18:16:04] <ssi> on the left
[18:16:11] <ssi> is just a piece of aluminum tubing with endcaps welded on
[18:16:15] <ssi> and fittings
[18:16:19] <PetefromTn_> we used to practice no brake landings doing landings on LONG runways in the C130
[18:16:26] <malcom2073> Nice! found a command reference manual, setting all the proper settings correctly, and it seems to be much happier
[18:17:08] <ssi> lol was just talking to someone the other day about how they got a job flying kingairs for a living,
[18:17:18] <ssi> and the boss said "try not to use brakes while taxiing because they're expensive"
[18:17:23] <ssi> so they would use differential thrust instead
[18:17:26] <ssi> and chewed up the props
[18:17:30] <ssi> props are more than brakes :P
[18:17:36] <ssi> by a couple orders of magnitude
[18:18:48] <ssi> gah I really want to get into casting
[18:21:51] <ssi> I wish I could buy a relatively inexpensive furnace
[18:21:53] <ssi> I don't want to build one
[18:22:34] <malcom2073> buy a used kiln?
[18:22:39] <ssi> I used to have a kiln
[18:22:52] <ssi> I sold it to a friend of mine with the caveat that I'd still be able to use it
[18:23:01] <ssi> and now we're not friends anymore :P
[18:23:06] <malcom2073> awww
[18:23:07] <malcom2073> heh
[18:23:09] <ssi> should have hung onto it :(
[18:23:13] <malcom2073> yeah you should've
[18:23:52] <Computer_barf> what did you use it for
[18:23:56] <ssi> i never used it
[18:24:08] <ssi> I was gonna try to use it for melting aluminum and heat treating
[18:24:09] <Computer_barf> damn
[18:24:18] <ssi> now I have a heat treat furnace but it's too small to use for foundry work
[18:24:45] <Computer_barf> well probably don't want to combine aluminum melting with heat treating anyway
[18:24:49] <ssi> no not really
[18:25:04] <ssi> I need to put an electronic profiling controller on my heat treat furnace
[18:25:14] <ssi> it's really tough to run it at relatively low annealing temps
[18:25:29] <ssi> er tempering rather
[18:25:36] <Computer_barf> annealing is to soften right
[18:25:40] <ssi> yeah
[18:26:00] <ssi> but after you harden, you draw to temper, and if you want a relatively hard final product you need to draw to a relatively low temp
[18:26:03] <ssi> like 400F
[18:26:09] <Computer_barf> every once and a while I find a bit of hardened steel and want to anneal it
[18:28:12] <ssi> it's not too hard in a furnace
[18:28:22] <ssi> the trick is to bring it up to temp and let it cool off very slowly
[18:28:38] <ssi> I can bring it up to temp and just shut the furnace off and let it cool without opening the door, and the furnace has enough thermal mass that it works out ok
[18:28:52] <ssi> but different steels need different cooling rates, I May not be able to anneal some alloys that way
[18:37:29] <malcom2073> ssi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZQXohif31g
[18:37:50] <ssi> looks good!
[18:38:13] <malcom2073> And that's position mode!
[18:38:17] <ssi> nice!
[18:38:34] <malcom2073> I need to read more. The Elmo won't save settings, I have to re-set them via serial every power cycle which is annoying heh
[18:38:38] <ssi> GROSS
[18:41:59] <ssi> I think casting + 3d printing for patterns could be a pretty big win
[18:42:05] <ssi> 3d printing and laser cutting wood
[18:42:05] <ssi> :D
[18:42:25] <Wolf_Mill> lost-pla casting
[18:42:30] <ssi> yea that too
[18:52:07] <tiwake> well my gun drilling yesterday went really well
[18:52:20] <tiwake> today I made the slots and got to inspect the bottom of the hole
[18:52:30] <ssi> damn... there's a guy in woodstock that sells 55 gallon drums for $10 each
[18:52:36] <tiwake> I have a new favorite kind of tool now :)
[18:52:42] <ssi> I texted asking if he had smaller ones like 35g, and he said 30 gallon steel drums are $100
[18:52:45] <ssi> wtf
[18:53:18] <Tom_itx> ssi, what about plastic?
[18:53:30] <Tom_itx> what do you need them for?
[18:53:34] <ssi> plastic makes a poor furnace :D
[18:53:38] <Tom_itx> oh
[18:53:50] <Tom_itx> didn't know what the purpose was
[18:54:10] <ssi> lol mcmaster sells brand new ones for $90
[18:54:16] <Tom_itx> i got some plastic ones free from a local commercial laundry soap distributor once
[18:54:49] <Tom_itx> yeah but you still gotta pay shipping
[18:54:52] <ssi> nope
[18:54:55] <ssi> will-call
[18:54:56] <Tom_itx> oh
[18:55:01] <ssi> closer than the guy in woodstock :P
[18:56:09] <Wolf_Mill> I'm really starting to like mcmaster lately
[18:56:13] <ssi> I love them
[18:56:17] <ssi> they're not the cheapest
[18:56:20] <ssi> but they're SO convenient
[18:56:25] <Tom_itx> addicted.... you need therapy
[18:56:45] <ssi> ?
[18:56:47] <Wolf_Mill> I got stuff from mcmaster that cost me less then enco...
[18:56:53] <Tom_itx> ssi, was that your plane you posted?
[18:57:07] <ssi> nope
[18:57:21] <ssi> Wolf_Mill: enco is also local to me but tehy won't let me pick stuff up in person :(
[18:57:33] <Wolf_Mill> that sucks
[18:57:41] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I get them for free when I purchase what goes in them
[18:58:01] <ssi> CaptHindsight: lol yeah I guess so
[18:58:08] <Wolf_Mill> the ruland oldhams on my x1 came from mcmaster, along with most of the metic screws and bearings
[18:59:13] <ssi> god I can't even begin to count the thousands of dollars I've spent at mcmaster :P
[18:59:23] <CaptHindsight> ssi: used steel 55gal drums are a bargain unless the label said they were filled with "Causes cancer on sight. Keep away from anything that lives"
[18:59:41] <CaptHindsight> are they clean drums?
[18:59:41] <Tom_itx> ssi, like i said, you need therapy
[18:59:51] <ssi> I dunno
[18:59:53] <ssi> don't really care
[18:59:59] <ssi> gonna fill it with refractory anyway :P
[19:00:07] <ssi> for $10, who cares
[19:00:27] <Wolf_Mill> :) x/y are steppered up now
[19:00:33] <CaptHindsight> 55gal used, cleaned drums usually go for ~$50
[19:01:05] <ssi> CaptHindsight:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/search/sss?sort=rel&query=steel+drum
[19:01:12] <ssi> wanna burn some lefes?
[19:01:13] <ssi> :P
[19:02:12] <CaptHindsight> with caps removed, I hope they mean lids of they might be closed head
[19:02:19] <CaptHindsight> of/or
[19:02:27] <ssi> again, for my purposes it doesn't matter
[19:02:30] <ssi> cause I'm going to cut it in half
[19:03:14] <CaptHindsight> good for kokin maters and taters
[19:03:50] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/Bobhn2U.jpg one of your finds
[19:04:25] <malcom2073> Haller yo for the Hallopinyos
[19:04:36] <ssi> love it
[19:06:47] <tiwake> also, I love spade drills
[19:07:01] <ve7it> for a furnace, consider using hot water tank... heavier steel than 45gal drum and usually available free
[19:07:25] <ssi> ve7it: water heater?
[19:07:28] <Tom_itx> tiwake, fostner bits ftw
[19:07:31] <ssi> I had one that I was going to try to use, but it's gone now
[19:07:43] <CaptHindsight> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/tls/5152105250.html it's a virtual cornucopia of drums and barrels
[19:07:46] <ve7it> zip cut them to whatever is needed... easier to weld to as well
[19:08:02] <ssi> CaptHindsight: that's the guy I'm talking to
[19:08:05] <ssi> he's a character :P
[19:08:18] <ve7it> ssi, yes old hot water heater tanks....
[19:08:38] <ssi> ve7it: it seemed pretty thin to me actually
[19:09:00] <tiwake> Tom_itx: linky?
[19:09:36] <Wolf_Mill> I like irwin speedbores for knocking holes in wood
[19:10:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.zoro.com/fisch-wave-cutter-forstner-bit-set-4-pc-03170004kl/i/G5042694/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=CKLe1qW5yscCFQ-maQodb9MMjA&gclsrc=aw.ds
[19:10:35] <ve7it> the tank is usually inside a metal cover and insulation blanket.... the only downside is they are usually glass lined (coated) which makes welding inside the tank more difficult (needs grinding)
[19:11:22] <Tom_itx> those make nice clean holes
[19:11:38] <tiwake> oh, for wood?
[19:11:43] <tiwake> I dont cut wood... lol
[19:11:52] <ssi> lol
[19:11:56] <PetefromTn_> anybody got a REALLY great shower head for I would say medium water pressure they would recommend? I like the removable wand/handle thing LOL
[19:12:13] <ssi> ve7it: the problem around here is there are SO many scrappers that it's hard to find free stuff like that
[19:12:29] <ssi> ve7it: a quick craigslist search turns up hundreds of ads for people who will come take your junk
[19:12:32] <ssi> and nobody with junk
[19:12:32] <ssi> :)
[19:13:07] <tiwake> at the moment I'm cutting a 3" diameter chunk of aluminum
[19:13:43] <tiwake> its a pretty simple part, and I'm using the largest collet pads possible for this
[19:13:55] <ssi> tiwake: what kind of machine?
[19:14:21] <tiwake> <3 S30 collet chuck
[19:14:23] <ssi> a machine with collet pads that'll hold 3" bar is a good sized machine
[19:14:28] <tiwake> wasino LJ-6 with live tooling
[19:14:31] <ssi> nice
[19:14:44] <tiwake> I have two of them
[19:14:47] <ssi> :o
[19:15:05] <ssi> what part of the world are you in
[19:15:07] <PetefromTn_> that is a nice machine
[19:15:23] <PetefromTn_> there was one for sale in Atlanta recently for a low price
[19:15:34] <PetefromTn_> but I could not have TWO CNC lathes in here hehe
[19:15:39] <ssi> that's a big machine man
[19:15:52] <ssi> I don't think you could have that machine plus your cinci in your shop lol
[19:15:56] <tiwake> USA, tillamook oregon
[19:15:57] <Tom_itx> tiwake, what do you cut with spade drills?
[19:16:00] <PetefromTn_> maybe it was not the LS6 then
[19:16:11] <ssi> aw so far away
[19:16:20] <tiwake> Tom_itx: right now? aluminum... generally steel though
[19:16:20] <tiwake> well
[19:16:20] <PetefromTn_> there was a little gang slide colllet lathe made by wasino I think it was
[19:16:27] <tiwake> copper actually
[19:16:43] <tiwake> but recently its been steel and aluminum
[19:17:11] <Tom_itx> can't imagine that working that well
[19:17:23] <tiwake> since nobody is drilling for oil, nobody is ordering electrical connectors
[19:17:35] <tiwake> so I dont get to make any copper parts... heh
[19:18:01] <Tom_itx> they opened up a bunch of wells around here recently
[19:18:10] <Tom_itx> re'opened
[19:18:21] <tiwake> Tom_itx: its copper with 0.05% tellerium mixed to make machining easier
[19:18:24] <Wolf_Mill> have a pic of said spade bits tiwake?
[19:18:30] <PetefromTn_> just orderd up a big fresh dinner of MSG ;)
[19:18:40] <PetefromTn_> gotta go pick it up now..
[19:18:43] <Tom_itx> yeah i'd be curious what they look like as well
[19:18:50] <tiwake> but yeah, I dont think a spade drill would work too well with pure C110 copper
[19:18:52] <Tom_itx> what i'm thinking of is strictly for wood
[19:19:19] <ssi> whoa
[19:19:19] <ssi> http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/2015-news/08-26-2015-brazilian-anequim
[19:20:00] <tiwake> sec
[19:20:01] <PetefromTn_> hey that is SEXY!!
[19:20:28] <Tom_itx> ssi, i'd rather take a ride in this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg
[19:20:43] <Tom_itx> we got one of those in our local museum
[19:21:47] <ssi> yea good luck with that
[19:22:24] <PetefromTn_> that bitch apparently hauls major butt!!
[19:22:32] <PetefromTn_> 5 world records...
[19:22:42] <tiwake> Tom_itx:
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/79729745
[19:22:42] <tiwake> and the insert...
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/08071276
[19:23:13] <tiwake> though thats a dumb insert to get, cause its not cobalt
[19:23:21] <ssi> yeah and the nemesis that he took two of those records from was already a pretty crazy animal
[19:23:46] <PetefromTn_> thats what they should call it...CRAZY ANIMAL!!
[19:23:49] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i'm not sure they've ever disclosed what it could actually do
[19:23:57] <Tom_itx> i've heard 100k altitude
[19:24:03] <Tom_itx> they claim 85k
[19:24:06] <tiwake> here
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/08070674
[19:24:18] <ssi> Tom_itx: oh it's higher than that
[19:24:19] <Tom_itx> i know it takes 4 states for it to turn around at speed
[19:24:29] <ssi> my ex's cousin is an astronaut, she's flown them
[19:24:31] <Tom_itx> ssi, like i said, they've never disclosed it
[19:24:33] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx I was talking about that sexy prop job ssi posted... but yeah the SR71 was a monster
[19:24:37] <ssi> she has a picture of the altimeter but they won't let her show anyone
[19:24:48] <Tom_itx> yeah i'm sure
[19:25:04] <Tom_itx> yeah that one ssi posted was pretty sexy too
[19:25:10] <ssi> yeah and way more attainable :)
[19:25:13] <tiwake> spade drills are nice cause they drill a really nice hole and there is a largish range of insert sizes per drill shank size you can use it with
[19:25:29] <PetefromTn_> I always enjoyed the stories of how it actually leaked fuel when it was on the ground because of the design...
[19:25:32] <ssi> PetefromTn_:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Nemesis
[19:25:47] <ssi> 292mph on 100hp
[19:25:49] <ssi> insanity
[19:25:53] <Tom_itx> they used to cook their lunch on the window
[19:26:23] <PetefromTn_> ground to 9000 feet in less than 3 minutes!!
[19:26:25] <Tom_itx> the insane thing about it was it was stick flown
[19:26:33] <Tom_itx> nothing automatic about it
[19:26:53] <PetefromTn_> BB in a Bit...gotta pickup my MSG ;)
[19:27:42] <ssi> that's not really all that surprising
[19:27:52] <ssi> it's not a remarkably maneuverable plane
[19:28:18] <ssi> really it's just a testbed for scramjets :P
[19:28:36] <Tom_itx> was replaced by satelites
[19:28:42] <Tom_itx> no longer needed
[19:28:51] <ssi> and it's stupid impractical and expensive
[19:29:07] <ssi> amazing bit of engineering, but impractical
[19:29:12] <Tom_itx> what's the cost of a satelite shot?
[19:29:28] <ssi> $10k/lb
[19:29:39] <Wolf_Mill> probably less then longterm running of a sr-71
[19:29:43] <ssi> way cheaper than running a blackbird
[19:30:43] <Wolf_Mill> why do these damn china steppers only come with 6" of wire on them...
[19:31:42] <Tom_itx> one of my favorite local places to visit:
http://www.cosmo.org/museum.cfm
[19:31:50] <Tom_itx> the sr71 is in their lobby
[19:31:59] <Tom_itx> actually it was built around it
[19:32:40] <ssi> ok I'm going home ffs
[19:32:48] <Tom_itx> later
[19:34:19] <tiwake> Tom_itx: you have never seen one of those drills before?
[19:34:33] <Tom_itx> link didn't work here
[19:34:50] <tiwake> rlly
[19:34:59] <tiwake> the website did seem a bit slow...
[19:35:24] <tiwake> Tom_itx:
http://www.alliedmachine.com/images/library/image/taholders.jpg
[19:35:32] <Tom_itx> ok i got it, yes we used those in Ti actually
[19:35:47] <Tom_itx> 2.5 - 3"
[19:35:58] <Tom_itx> or something similar
[19:36:20] <tiwake> titanium?
[19:36:20] <tiwake> my biggest spade drill is 2.5"
[19:36:25] <tiwake> its kind of a monster drill... lol
[19:36:28] <Tom_itx> yes Ti
[19:36:50] <tiwake> got it for a specific set of aluminum parts
[19:37:32] <Tom_itx> i was thinking of the wood version :)
[19:39:20] <SpeedEvil> Spade bits sort-of-work on steel.
[19:39:26] <SpeedEvil> I wouldn't recommend it
[19:39:50] <zeeshan> those drills
[19:39:51] <Tom_itx> ours were thru hole coolant
[19:39:52] <zeeshan> are sexy as fak
[19:40:18] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: what?
[19:40:20] <tiwake> zeeshan: yeah they are
[19:40:21] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h2FVyrP5no
[19:40:26] <zeeshan> it's raping the metal here
[19:40:28] <zeeshan> they work great
[19:41:14] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2kGqLsSkws
[19:41:15] <zeeshan> moar
[19:41:34] <tiwake> there are better drills, but spade drills are probably the best general purpose I've ever used
[19:41:34] <tiwake> can get a $500 insert drill, but there is only one size it can be
[19:41:54] <zeeshan> Timbo: that 2.5"
[19:41:58] <zeeshan> tiwake:
[19:42:03] <zeeshan> that 2.5" musta cost you a lot
[19:42:08] <Tom_itx> iirc we had some that used rows of square inserts
[19:43:48] <tiwake> zeeshan: not too much as I recall, but each part I was making maybe $25 each... heh.. I think we made... what.. like 300 parts?
[19:44:11] <Tom_itx> https://www.iscar.com/ecatalog/Ecat/datafile/PICTURE/2569.gif
[19:44:14] <Tom_itx> or such
[19:45:46] <tiwake> oh yeah
[19:46:06] <Tom_itx> 50 taper spindle
[19:46:08] <tiwake> we have a couple of drills similar to that, cause cutting lots of steel with interupted cut
[19:46:48] <tiwake> zeeshan:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gtepgqmea7hogkg/20141022_001.jpg?dl=0
[19:47:03] <tiwake> thats what I used the big arse spade drill on
[19:47:16] <zeeshan> those were only $25 per piece?
[19:47:35] <zeeshan> is that roughly a 6" od?
[19:47:35] <tiwake> not including material
[19:47:49] <tiwake> and yeah, 6" material
[19:48:04] <Tom_itx> machine time?
[19:48:04] <zeeshan> i guess in production runs
[19:48:07] <zeeshan> you can save em money
[19:48:29] <tiwake> its similar to another part we make for them
[19:49:31] <tiwake> uh, I dont recall what the machine time is
[19:49:31] <zeeshan> brb :P
[19:49:40] <tiwake> less than 25min each :P
[19:49:58] <Tom_itx> you work cheap
[19:51:06] <tiwake> $100/hour is cheap?
[19:51:25] <Tom_itx> if it was 25 min it is
[19:51:37] <tiwake> neh, less than
[19:52:26] <Tom_itx> do the chips break up pretty good on that large hole?
[19:52:35] <Tom_itx> how many steps do you take for it?
[19:52:36] <Tom_itx> 2?
[19:52:49] <Tom_itx> or drill to size
[19:53:36] <tiwake> yeah they do
[19:53:44] <tiwake> two operations
[19:53:56] <tiwake> neh, drill and bore
[19:54:06] <Tom_itx> slots 2nd op?
[19:54:22] <Tom_itx> or is it all done while in the lathe
[19:54:23] <tiwake> there are some features on the ID, and it needs a nicer surface finish
[19:54:31] <tiwake> everything is done in the lathe
[19:54:48] <zeeshan> tiwake: i was just curious about price
[19:54:52] <zeeshan> cause if i a customer asked me for 10 of those
[19:54:53] <tiwake> the picture is with the first operation done, with a 6" slug as the starting point
[19:54:58] <tiwake> pff
[19:54:59] <Tom_itx> that still seems kinda cheap
[19:55:01] <zeeshan> id want at least 600
[19:55:06] <tiwake> yeah
[19:55:10] <zeeshan> but for 300
[19:55:13] <zeeshan> it makes sense
[19:55:13] <tiwake> to make 10? screw that
[19:55:29] <tiwake> its similar to another part we make for the guy
[19:55:40] <tiwake> so about half of the program was copy-paste :P
[19:55:44] <zeeshan> haha
[19:55:54] <Tom_itx> yeah but that's a one time charge
[19:56:07] <Tom_itx> along with setup
[19:56:22] <zeeshan> cost estimating is quite hard
[19:56:26] <tiwake> for that customer we dont charge programming
[19:56:29] <zeeshan> something that comes with experience i guess
[19:56:37] <Tom_itx> they have programs to do cost estimates
[19:56:48] <zeeshan> seriously though
[19:56:56] <zeeshan> i still think those things are at least worth 50 per piece
[19:57:05] <zeeshan> @ 300
[19:57:11] <Tom_itx> maybe that's why you're not making em :D
[19:57:13] <zeeshan> but what do i know, i dont run 300 parts ever
[19:57:15] <zeeshan> hahaha
[19:57:24] <Tom_itx> i would agree they seem cheap
[19:57:33] <tiwake> but yeah, if somebody handed me something and gave me a quantity, its less about how long it would take and more about how much of a pain in the flank it would be
[19:57:33] <tiwake> heh
[19:57:54] <Tom_itx> do you have to cut the blocks
[19:58:02] <Tom_itx> and do they supply the material?
[19:58:05] <tiwake> like the parts I'm making right now... 11 parts, but 2,2,2,2,2,1 of different parts
[19:58:07] <tiwake> heh
[19:58:20] <tiwake> I told him $3,000 for those
[19:58:22] <zeeshan> hey at least its not a lump
[19:58:36] <tiwake> Tom_itx: they came pre-cut
[19:58:39] <zeeshan> brb
[19:58:43] <Tom_itx> that helps
[19:58:51] <Tom_itx> unless they're not consistent
[19:58:52] <tiwake> Tom_itx: our customer found the material and bought it for us
[19:59:07] <Tom_itx> ok well that makes a difference
[19:59:24] <tiwake> yeah
[19:59:34] <tiwake> I've known the guy for a very very long time
[19:59:35] <Tom_itx> i can get that stuff off the shelf heere
[19:59:55] <tiwake> I remember when I was like 6 my parents to me cross-country to his wedding
[19:59:56] <tiwake> lol
[20:00:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/9.jpg
[20:00:25] <tiwake> pff
[20:00:37] <tiwake> maybe one day
[20:00:55] <tiwake> the only material we stock is 1.5" copper bars
[20:01:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/11.jpg
[20:01:56] <Tom_itx> a little spoiled when it comes to finding stock
[20:02:03] <tiwake> I'd say
[20:02:27] <tiwake> food isnt even that easy to get
[20:02:33] <tiwake> walmart is 1.5 hours away
[20:02:41] <Tom_itx> hah
[20:05:03] <tiwake> same with costco
[20:06:16] <Tom_itx> we've got half dozen walmarts
[20:06:25] <Tom_itx> finally got 1 costco here
[20:06:37] <Tom_itx> not sure how it's gonna compete with sams
[20:06:53] <tiwake> costco is nicer than sams most of the time
[20:07:05] <Tom_itx> more variety but about the same cost
[20:07:14] <Tom_itx> wasn't overly impressed
[20:08:01] <tiwake> sams is probably better for dry/canned foods
[20:08:35] <tiwake> donno about "fresh" or frozen...
[20:09:01] <tiwake> its hard to beat costcos price on romain lettuce
[20:09:24] <tiwake> *romaine
[20:09:46] <Wolf_Mill> where else can you pick up a a head of lettuce and a generator at the same time tii
[20:09:49] <Wolf_Mill> too
[20:10:12] <tiwake> and a 55gallon drum of oil for the engine XD
[20:11:50] <tiwake> oh, and hard drives are the cheapest there too :P
[20:12:16] <tiwake> the segate external hard drive is $10 cheaper than newegg or amazon
[20:13:00] <tiwake> back when all the hard drive manufacturing paces got flooded and hard drives were expensive, costco had them for the same price still
[20:13:01] <tiwake> lol
[20:13:53] <malcom2073> zeeshan: You see my video?
[20:14:05] <Wolf_Mill> I havent needed a harddrive in over 6 years, I keep finding 1tb and 1.5tb ones in my old electronics gear boxes lol
[20:14:53] <tiwake> its been a while since I needed a hard drive...
[20:15:11] <malcom2073> I haven't had a hard drive fail in... a long time
[20:15:15] <malcom2073> Come to think of it
[20:15:22] <tiwake> but I plan on getting an army of drives again for another server
[20:15:53] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, I want to do a raid6 box for my house at some point
[20:16:09] <malcom2073> do raidz2 (zfs)
[20:16:13] <tiwake> whenever AMD decides to release the A1100 SoC processor
[20:16:20] <tiwake> sometime this year
[20:16:39] <tiwake> malcom2073: meh, I think I'm going to go BTRFS this time
[20:16:41] <Wolf_Mill> I think its raid6... i dont know anymore...
[20:16:55] <tiwake> my other server using mdadm raid 5 and raid1 for boot drives
[20:16:57] <malcom2073> tiwake: From what I've heard, that's ok too, but I've not looked into it much.
[20:17:15] <tiwake> mdadm is pretty nice
[20:17:28] <tiwake> but yeah, modern file systems
[20:17:31] <malcom2073> mdadm isn't bad if you have lots of processing power
[20:17:38] <malcom2073> It's gotten better recently
[20:17:43] <tiwake> mdadm does not use much
[20:17:58] <tiwake> using it on an intel atom D510
[20:18:12] <malcom2073> raid 0/1 doesn't, raid 5/6 does
[20:18:40] <tiwake> then again, I'm not doing a lot of reading/writing to the file system
[20:18:41] <malcom2073> I ran into issues with the disks getting slow when I would do SCP transfers from the encryption hammering the CPU, and there not being enough left over for other file operations
[20:19:19] <tiwake> if
http://tiwake.com works, then my internet connection, server, and RAID5 array are all working correctly... lol
[20:20:15] <tiwake> oh yeah, encryption would take a lot out of the processor
[20:20:50] <tiwake> would linuxCNC work on ARM?
[20:20:56] <malcom2073> tiwake: I run it on a BBB
[20:20:58] <malcom2073> so... yes
[20:21:02] <malcom2073> Well, I *ran* it on a bbb heh
[20:21:04] <tiwake> BBB?
[20:21:08] <malcom2073> BeagleBone Black
[20:25:14] <tiwake> I should stop talking and work more
[20:25:32] <tiwake> its a bid job though, not by the hour
[20:25:33] <malcom2073> Nah
[20:25:41] <tiwake> however its due tomorrow XD
[20:26:21] <malcom2073> HAha, probably should get back towork then
[20:28:13] <tiwake> well, most of the work is done
[20:28:22] <tiwake> been working on it all week
[20:28:29] <tiwake> all the annoying stuff is done
[20:28:37] <tiwake> last couple parts
[20:28:45] <tiwake> I'm starting to feel lazy
[20:28:50] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:29:40] <tiwake> get 75% done with the hardest part of it done, and then I want to switch to the next thing
[20:29:54] <tiwake> or just laze around
[20:30:51] <tiwake> heh, thats why I didnt finish college... got calculus and physics and some of the other harder classes, and just dropped it
[20:31:05] <tiwake> *harder classes done
[20:31:07] <malcom2073> I know the feeling. Do the challenging stuff, all the nitpicky stuff sucks to do
[20:32:39] <Wolf_Mill> sounds like my cnc converson, got half the hardware installed, cleaning up/layign out the drivers and stuff... still dont have a cam package figured out lol
[20:32:42] <tiwake> to be fair, I just wanted college to learn what I wanted to learn... I didnt care about the paper, even when starting it
[20:33:17] <malcom2073> Hah Wolf_Mill, manually generate gcode :-D
[20:33:33] <tiwake> CAM systems are annoying
[20:33:48] <tiwake> they all generate fugly code
[20:33:52] <Wolf_Mill> I figure at worst I can mill by joystick =)
[20:34:15] <tiwake> at least all the ones I've seen
[20:34:48] <malcom2073> I use a CNC as a computer controlled powerfeed :-D
[20:34:57] <malcom2073> And automatic finding DRO
[20:35:12] <tiwake> donno why they dont use canned cycle commands
[21:02:36] <Jymmm> Everyone knows frozen is better than canned
[21:05:06] <malcom2073> yummy
[21:07:18] <tiwake> flash frozen stuff would be nice
[21:09:55] <Wolf_Mill> oh, what did you mean by autofinding dro, I'm still a noob when it comes to this stuff
[21:10:08] <malcom2073> Totally not the right term :P I'm a noob too
[21:10:21] <malcom2073> I mean instead of turning the handle until it says 0.2500, I can type it in :P
[21:10:24] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[21:10:35] <tiwake> thats...
[21:10:40] * tiwake facehooves
[21:11:24] <malcom2073> tiwake: What?
[21:12:34] <tiwake> malcom2073:
http://mlfw.info/f/8475/ XD
[21:12:43] <Tom_itx> tiwake, you can tweak them to get it pretty close
[21:12:50] <malcom2073> tiwake: I know what you did, I don't understand why
[21:13:29] <tiwake> Tom_itx: tweak CAM systems?
[21:13:49] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:13:56] <tiwake> malcom2073: for calling it an automatic finding DRO... heh
[21:14:12] <Tom_itx> mine still puts out one or two annoying moves i haven't fixed yet
[21:14:15] <malcom2073> tiwake: Pretend for a moment I'm a software guy, and shouldn't really be around machines :P
[21:14:34] <tiwake> heh
[21:14:40] <Tom_itx> it has to do with the sections that are called when you post the code
[21:15:15] <tiwake> Tom_itx: if I'm going to be putting in that much effort, I dont want it to be a payed CAM system... heh
[21:15:24] <Tom_itx> for some reason a save move retract gets called twice in some circumstances
[21:15:53] <Tom_itx> it's just post for a particular machine
[21:15:57] <Tom_itx> in this case linuxcnc
[21:17:03] <Tom_itx> it's effort that doesn't have to be repeated every program
[21:17:54] <Tom_itx> every now and then i get an itch and sit down and refine it a bit more
[21:18:42] <Tom_itx> last thing i added to the post was rigid tapping
[21:20:29] <tiwake> I dont have a machine that can rigid tap
[21:20:46] <malcom2073> I wonder if my machine will be able to rigid tap if I stick an encoder on the spindle
[21:21:26] <Tom_itx> don't see why not
[21:21:50] <malcom2073> Have to get a VFD that is controllable via linuxcnc, is that typically a 10v interface, or digital?
[21:22:12] <Tom_itx> far as i know +-10v
[21:22:22] <Tom_itx> but i don't own one
[21:22:24] <malcom2073> I need to buy a VFD, haven't even looked into that yet heh
[21:22:50] <Wolf_Mill> can I get a vfd for my 1/5hp mill...
[21:22:59] <malcom2073> I don't see why not, I'm sure they make small ones
[21:23:02] <malcom2073> wait
[21:23:07] <malcom2073> vfd is typically for 3phase motors
[21:23:11] <malcom2073> What kind of motor do you have?
[21:23:28] <Wolf_Mill> oversized sewing machine motor I bet
[21:24:24] <Wolf_Mill> odd 110v dc lol
[21:26:10] <Tom_itx> mine is 90v dc
[21:49:29] <tiwake> alright, I'm going home
[21:54:59] <malcom2073> See ya
[22:40:46] <furrywolf> I hate china. I need to start being one of those people who refuses to buy anything made in china.
[22:42:06] <furrywolf> fixed someone's lawn tractor, bad starter motor. a john deere. to change the starter, you have to take apart the engine front of the machine, pull the engine (disconnecting all hoses, cables, wires, etc), and remove the cowling. the new chinese starter isn't quite the same shape, and interferes with the cowling, and DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. After four hours of work putting it in. it occasionally works, most of the time just clicks.
[22:43:25] <malcom2073> Lawl
[22:45:20] <malcom2073> But they're so cheeeaaapppp
[22:47:52] <malcom2073> furrywolf: I got my servo spinning
[22:48:17] * furrywolf bolts it to the lawn tractor to start the engine
[22:48:22] <Wolf_Mill> might be the crap valve system in the lawn tractor losing the lash adjutment
[22:48:45] <Wolf_Mill> cooks the starter, wont turn over
[22:50:06] <furrywolf> no, it was the owner hitting a piece of scrap metal, tweaking the clutch so it locked, then trying to crank the starter repeatedly against a locked engine.
[22:50:21] <malcom2073> lol
[22:51:19] <furrywolf> the electric cluch on it seems poorly designed... every time you stop the blades on something, part of it rides up on top of a key for another part of it, causing it to jam to the frame.
[22:52:03] <furrywolf> could be wear-related, but it looks pretty new.
[22:52:34] <Wolf_Mill> usually there is a space on the motor shaft to keep the clutch in place
[22:54:24] <furrywolf> the owner trying to avoid having to dismantle it again by clicking the starter repeatedly apparantly isn't the right solution. :)
[22:59:51] <Wolf_Mill> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzffTzZITLc I know a little about mowers
[23:00:56] <malcom2073> I need to do that with mine
[23:01:27] <malcom2073> Except GPS tracking, automated :-D
[23:02:24] <malcom2073> Oh slick, it's a self propelled with steering
[23:02:40] <Wolf_Mill> yeah... I wouldnt trust gps unless you are doing a fenced in field and dont like the fence
[23:02:53] <malcom2073> I have the hardware to do differential
[23:03:05] <Wolf_Mill> thats diffrent :)
[23:03:09] <malcom2073> I'd still have todo the edges though
[23:03:17] <malcom2073> But it would take out about half the mowing
[23:03:19] <malcom2073> maybe more
[23:03:19] <Wolf_Mill> wait, full pslk or whatever it is
[23:04:50] <Wolf_Mill> I have 3 acres, 2 of it is a pain in my ass hill
[23:05:15] <malcom2073> Buddy of mine bought all the stuff for rtklib, and wants me to figure out how to use it heh
[23:05:17] <Wolf_Mill> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-PeA20v6eE
[23:05:26] <Wolf_Mill> haha nice
[23:05:34] <malcom2073> Haha nice
[23:05:46] <Wolf_Mill> I need to get off my ass and get v2 mower going
[23:05:54] <malcom2073> I have a normal steering mower I'm gonna convert
[23:06:13] <Wolf_Mill> 52" with 18hp hydro wheel motor drive
[23:06:28] <malcom2073> Nice, mine is a 54" hydro drive
[23:07:07] <malcom2073> I figure an easy linear actuator on the hydro lever (it's a hand lever), and a servo with belt on the steering wheel. I have ardupilot hardware that can run a rover, which is basically the same interface, steering and throttle
[23:07:12] <furrywolf> I have a 18" push mower with a crappy little engine on top. :P
[23:07:28] <malcom2073> heh
[23:07:29] <malcom2073> wimp
[23:10:48] * furrywolf has a very small lawn
[23:10:50] <Wolf_Mill> sweet, mill is moving around on its own
[23:11:09] <furrywolf> I also have a nice highwheel trimmer, but it needs repair parts machined.
[23:11:15] <Wolf_Mill> think i'm getting resonance issue tho
[23:12:56] <furrywolf> got a redwood branch jammed up over the head, and it broke and scraped off the tig-welded string holders... going to machine some much tougher bolt-on ones.
[23:14:27] <Wolf_Mill> high wheel trimmer is on my list of things to make, but RC w/ a power wheelchair/scooter
[23:17:09] <Wolf_Mill> both are going to get FPV video pods on them (swap between the two)
[23:24:37] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:24:56] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/XgBhOjG.jpg =)
[23:26:15] <malcom2073> Nice!
[23:26:20] <malcom2073> That came together fast
[23:28:14] <Wolf_Mill> still have to put the control stuff togther on a mounting plate, waiting on limit switches, add hall effect spindle speed display and finish the whole z axis setup lol
[23:28:47] <furrywolf> I still haven't decided about limit switches on mine. I might just jbweld some switches to rare earth magnets.
[23:28:58] <furrywolf> instant limit switches, and adjustable too.
[23:29:09] <Wolf_Mill> lol, I have some inductive sensors in route
[23:29:47] <furrywolf> but first, sleep.
[23:31:38] <Wolf_Mill> also need to figure out why the motors are stalling out
[23:37:58] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: Binding up?
[23:38:00] <malcom2073> Wait no you have couplers
[23:39:54] <Wolf_Mill> I think its a resonance issue
[23:40:23] <Wolf_Mill> at over 37 in/min
