#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-25

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[00:01:57] <zeeshan> :D
[00:02:19] <zeeshan> that seems to be where additive manufacturing for aerospace is being used
[00:02:21] <zeeshan> hard to machine alloys
[00:02:31] <zeeshan> crazy stuff like waspalloy
[00:02:35] <zeeshan> nickel based stuff
[00:02:40] <Wolf_Mill> they really do have a stintered inconel printer
[00:02:51] <zeeshan> yea it all exists
[00:02:55] <zeeshan> has existed for the last decade
[00:03:18] <zeeshan> just don't hear about it till recent cause lots was secret
[00:03:35] <Wolf_Mill> 3d printers seem to bve drawing more people into the machining realm
[00:03:51] <zeeshan> yea but in the wrong sense in my opinion
[00:04:03] <zeeshan> i was just discussing this with my friend who runs a makerspace
[00:04:18] <zeeshan> people think they can build something out of wood and cut steel or aluminum with it accurately
[00:04:30] <Wolf_Mill> haha
[00:04:30] <zeeshan> because they're coming from a 3d print world where there are no cutting forces
[00:04:59] <Wolf_Mill> yeah, dont understand that its really light cuts or heavy iron to cut metals
[00:05:25] <zeeshan> its lack of education i think about the subject
[00:05:37] <zeeshan> like i had to learn in school about these things
[00:05:55] <zeeshan> i was so suprised the first time i did a calculation on 1" round bar
[00:06:06] <zeeshan> that was 36" long , simply supported on it's ends
[00:06:08] <Wolf_Mill> they were phasing out shop classes when I was in highschool =/
[00:06:11] <zeeshan> and i put a 80lb force in the middle
[00:06:24] <zeeshan> it deflects way more than 0.001 from what i recall
[00:06:39] <zeeshan> i didnt have shop class in my highschool
[00:07:30] <Wolf_Mill> here for me it was during the change over to tech ed
[00:08:27] <Wolf_Mill> speaking of wood... I need a shelf
[00:09:59] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/iy1JtCX.jpg thats a little better :D
[00:10:41] <Praesmeodymium> as a 3d printer guy myself people are just stupid all the way round they come into the 3d chat room and just assume they can build a printer 2x the size of everything else and it will cost about the the same with great quality.
[00:11:18] <Wolf_Mill> or expect great prints with no tuning
[00:11:31] <zeeshan> deflection = -PL^3 / 48EI .. , P=80lb, L=36 in, E=29*10^6, I = pi/64 * (1")^4 ... deflection = -80*36^3 / (48*29*10^6*(pi/64)*1^4) = -.054"
[00:11:38] <Praesmeodymium> yup, I just got it built so it should print perfectly!
[00:11:38] <zeeshan> hopefully i crunched the numbers right
[00:11:40] <zeeshan> prolly didnt :P
[00:11:47] <zeeshan> 50 thou seems excessive for 80lb:P
[00:11:53] <zeeshan> actually nm it is reasonable
[00:16:59] <zeeshan> Praesmeodymium: i think you can build it for relatively cheap
[00:17:06] <zeeshan> if you scavenge the right parts, and know what youre doing! :P
[00:18:16] <Wolf_Mill> i was lazy, I got a printer kit
[00:18:59] <Wolf_Mill> seems to do ok http://i.imgur.com/rZeYTyK.jpg
[00:20:48] <zeeshan> looks good to me :)
[00:20:58] <zeeshan> how much was the kit?
[00:21:03] <zeeshan> ive been looking for a cheap one to build
[00:21:04] <Praesmeodymium> yeah, nice prints way better than the average
[00:21:06] <zeeshan> just for prototyping
[00:21:15] <Wolf_Mill> still more of a toy/hobby tool then a real tool imo
[00:21:17] <zeeshan> heated bed
[00:21:21] <zeeshan> has support material stuff
[00:21:31] <zeeshan> maybe 24x24x24
[00:21:34] <zeeshan> "
[00:22:02] <Praesmeodymium> yeah they are toys for the most part, or neat electronics case printers
[00:22:05] <zeeshan> i have to outsource my 3d work right now :P
[00:22:11] <zeeshan> 3d print work that is
[00:22:42] <Praesmeodymium> something that size is going to cost an arm and a leg for the average hobbyiest, you cnc guys throw a little more dosh around though
[00:22:56] <zeeshan> upto 1k is fine
[00:22:57] <zeeshan> no more though
[00:23:01] <Wolf_Mill> makerfarm 10" i3 kit w/ 3mm hexagon hed http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/3d-printer-kits/prusa-10-i3v-kit-v-slot-extrusion.html
[00:23:40] <zeeshan> can i just mount a glue gun
[00:23:42] <zeeshan> on my cnc mill?
[00:23:45] <zeeshan> and get the same thing? :P
[00:23:53] <Wolf_Mill> lol
[00:24:04] <Praesmeodymium> a 24x24 heated bed is a real challenge, currently thtere isnt a super easy way to get there without spending a bit for a custom silicon mat heater
[00:24:15] <zeeshan> do you really need a heated bed
[00:24:19] <zeeshan> when the whole thing can be in an oven
[00:24:23] <zeeshan> 90~c
[00:24:27] <zeeshan> metal plate on bottom
[00:24:28] <Wolf_Mill> use 4 12"x12" beds
[00:24:44] <Praesmeodymium> thaths the other way
[00:24:52] <Praesmeodymium> do you get a cold spot in the center?
[00:25:02] <Wolf_Mill> mill a alum plate to mount them on
[00:25:17] <zeeshan> i dont understand why the plate is a big deal??
[00:25:23] <Praesmeodymium> zeeshan: 60c would be a better temp, and steppers and electronics dont care for those temps but I suspect you knew that
[00:25:30] <zeeshan> isn't it just an aluminum plate w/ heating elemtings running under/inside it
[00:25:45] <Wolf_Mill> mine is a pcb heater with a glass plate on top
[00:26:06] <Praesmeodymium> mine is a kapton heater with glass on top
[00:26:14] <Praesmeodymium> but much smaller
[00:26:17] <Wolf_Mill> pla wont stick to the glass when its cold (as well)
[00:26:35] <Wolf_Mill> ABS is just a pain in the ass, which is what I use mostly lol
[00:27:49] <zeeshan> or i can buy a standard printer
[00:27:51] <zeeshan> not have to do crap
[00:27:56] <zeeshan> and just work with the small volume
[00:27:59] <zeeshan> and glue parts together
[00:28:03] <Wolf_Mill> abs likes to shrink when it cools, badly http://i.imgur.com/27HAehZ.jpg curls off the bed, will speprate in the middle of tall thin sections
[00:28:13] <Praesmeodymium> yeah just the combination of 1000$ + that size would require making it yourself
[00:28:19] <zeeshan> Wolf_Mill: my friend had the same exact problem
[00:28:25] <zeeshan> he added an oven to his delta printer
[00:28:31] <Wolf_Mill> haha
[00:29:09] <zeeshan> i might just copy his design
[00:29:11] <zeeshan> and scale it larger
[00:29:17] <Wolf_Mill> I use my printer for making mostly RC parts so now I keep them small or thick to hold heat
[00:29:19] <zeeshan> and make it out of metal
[00:29:21] <zeeshan> instead of plastic
[00:30:27] <Wolf_Mill> grr need to move the shelf over the bench up some so I can fit the monitor on the wall
[00:31:21] <ve7it> any 3ph servo drive gurus around tonight? I have a motor with namplate rating of ac100V 5.8A Y windings... what dc bus voltage would one use with a pwm drive to get full output?
[00:32:05] <Praesmeodymium> I would warn against a delta printer for a first build of a printer.... but its not like you dont understand level and tram and stuff so... delta printers require a level of accuracy in a build some people have difficulty with... but given the nature of the room, the caveat is xy inaccuracy isnt and obvious thing to trace down because there is trig involved
[00:33:19] <Wolf_Mill> large xy would be easy to make as well
[00:33:41] <zeeshan> i like the compactness of the delta
[00:34:00] <zeeshan> Praesmeodymium: i think i can figure it out :P
[00:34:01] <zeeshan> hehe
[00:34:06] <Wolf_Mill> 3d printer using china ball screws? :D
[00:34:19] <zeeshan> avoid screws
[00:34:20] <zeeshan> use belts :P
[00:35:03] <Praesmeodymium> eh we use belts because the point of printing is to move fast otherwise it takes way too long and can be hard to keep the plastic behaving as it cooks if ya go too slow
[00:35:35] <Praesmeodymium> I like the ultimaker style its what i am building next
[00:36:45] <Praesmeodymium> but definetly use screws on z dont cheap out and use threaded rod like some unlucky folks go with
[00:49:56] <Sync_> fenn: the code is pretty advanced, it works very well
[00:50:22] <Sync_> you get two rj45 for feedback/control and usb for parameters
[01:06:33] <Wolf_Mill> never fails, have the whole back of the bench to drill a wire axcess hole in, and I manage to hit a screw
[01:28:20] <Sync_> fenn: the BOM is around 150€
[01:32:35] <fenn> that's 3x the cost of http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-BE25A20IE-/321836257853
[01:33:04] <fenn> it's great that it's open source and all (sort of) but i can't really afford to waste that kind of money
[01:34:02] <fenn> also i don't need the functionality it provides (sinusoidal path planning) because that's provided by linuxcnc
[01:38:16] <fenn> zeeshan: if you're in the market for a printer get a light cured resin type because they have much better surface finish and can resolve fine details that would take forever to mill
[01:38:33] <fenn> and then you can use that in a casting process to convert it to some other material if needed
[01:38:55] <fenn> sacrificing surface finish for durability makes no sense when you are surrounded by big honkin machine tools
[01:40:42] <archivist> I didnt know zeeshan had a sister in England, must improve security...
[01:42:50] <fenn> install some garden gnomes
[01:50:11] <fenn> bucktown polymers now sells a water soluble "rinse out" UV cure resin
[01:52:22] <Praesmeodymium> oh dear god
[01:53:32] <Praesmeodymium> It must be a different chemistry than the typical... actually I'll ask the resin makers what they think. I have a dlp printer and the average resin should never be near the drain until its fully cured
[01:53:57] <Sync_> you cannot compare them fenn
[01:54:13] <Sync_> you can connect almost any servo to the stmbl
[01:54:29] <Sync_> the AMC will only take certain ones with the correct feedback device
[01:54:41] <archivist> you can connect almost any servo to linuxcnc
[01:55:26] <fenn> Praesmeodymium: no it's water soluble *after* it cures
[01:55:52] <fenn> so when you make a mold you just rinse out the 3d printed part
[01:56:05] <Sync_> also we can easily run from mains
[01:56:06] <Praesmeodymium> theres only a few photoinitators that work in the 420nm-uv ranges
[01:56:25] <fenn> sync isn't that dangerous?
[01:56:26] <Praesmeodymium> and they are all super toxic to aquatic life until cured
[01:56:45] <Praesmeodymium> all, meaning the ones I am aware of
[01:57:48] <fenn> hmm ok it didn't say anything about disposal or toxicity
[01:58:24] <fenn> no msds
[01:58:36] <Praesmeodymium> I was just looking for that too
[01:58:57] <Sync_> not any more dangerous than a real servodrive fenn
[01:59:08] <fenn> i wouldn't hook any drive straight up to mains
[01:59:22] <Sync_> and usually you want the high voltage so you can push current into the motor quickly
[01:59:25] <Sync_> why not?
[01:59:28] <fenn> it could short and make the whole machine electrified
[01:59:37] <fenn> relative to ground
[01:59:46] <Sync_> impossible, as the machine is grounded
[01:59:56] <Sync_> your RCD will just trip
[02:00:50] <Sync_> also those drives are analog, tuning will never be good
[02:00:56] <Sync_> and they don't do resolvers
[02:02:43] <fenn> what's wrong with analog
[02:03:14] <Sync_> you are not able to tune it as stiff
[02:03:39] <fenn> why?
[02:04:28] <Sync_> because you lack the adjustments
[02:04:41] <fenn> it seems to me the critical parameter is the PID loop frequency
[02:04:48] <Sync_> nah
[02:05:11] <Sync_> proper dynamic clamping and observers are the critical thing
[02:06:05] <fenn> i don't even know what that means
[02:06:33] <fenn> are you sure you didn't just make those words up
[02:06:35] <Sync_> well most drives implement a cascaded control system
[02:07:26] <Sync_> if you look at the elmchan DC servo controller you see the cascaded control very well http://elm-chan.org/works/smc/rcc/zblock3.png
[02:07:58] <Sync_> dynamic clamping limits each stages outputs in a way that the PWM stage cannot hit the upper or lower limit
[02:08:34] <fenn> that seems pretty reasonable, are you saying an analog PID loop doesn't have limits at each stage?
[02:08:47] <Sync_> no, but it cannot clamp dynamically
[02:09:08] <Sync_> and it has problems doing things like velocity observers right
[02:09:13] <fenn> (also i wouldn't be using the drive's PID loop i'd be using a mesa card)
[02:09:38] <Sync_> well, you are still driving the motor with the drive, so you need it tuned right
[02:09:44] <Sync_> tuning around the drive is a bad idea
[02:10:25] <fenn> ok next what is an "observer"
[02:10:43] <archivist> mesa card is an observer
[02:10:44] <Sync_> it is something that observes a value of your system
[02:10:49] <Sync_> eg velocity
[02:10:52] <Sync_> as velocity is hard to measure
[02:11:11] <Sync_> if you have an encoder you get velocity as a quantized value at low speeds
[02:11:17] <Sync_> which messes up your control loop
[02:11:31] <Sync_> with an observer you can model your system and get infinite resolution
[02:11:37] <Sync_> (in theory)
[02:20:31] <fenn> Sync_: since you seem to be involved in the development somehow, please put in a request to make the capacitor not stick out so much :)
[02:21:07] <fenn> also real documentation
[02:21:20] <fenn> max and peak current ratings are a good start
[02:21:25] <fenn> er, continuous and peak
[02:28:36] <Deejay> moin
[02:32:37] <Deep_pink> someone here use mach3?
[02:33:19] <fenn> grounds for expulsion...
[02:34:49] <Deep_pink> how I'm using the probe to find an edge?
[02:35:53] <fenn> g38?
[02:37:59] <Deep_pink> how it's work?
[02:38:47] <fenn> in MDI do G38.2 X1 F10 or something like that
[02:39:30] <fenn> then jog off again and do it slower
[02:40:52] <Deep_pink> how I'm do it slower?
[02:41:24] <fenn> change F to .01 or whatever you feel is appropriate
[02:41:52] <Deep_pink> one sec, I will connect it to the machine and see if iit work
[02:42:02] <Deep_pink> *it
[02:42:21] <fenn> my F numbers are pretty silly huh
[02:42:43] <Deep_pink> why?
[02:42:58] <fenn> F1 (1in/min) is more reasonable
[02:43:17] <fenn> since you are at the machine you can jog pretty close to the edge to start with
[02:43:38] <Deep_pink> mmm
[02:43:51] <Deep_pink> I'm not sure what do you mean..
[02:43:58] <Deep_pink> but I'm working on it.
[02:44:12] <fenn> what type of probe are you using?
[02:44:46] <Deep_pink> just small push button
[02:45:13] <Deep_pink> but I have better one with 6 ball bearings that I'm working on..
[02:50:04] <Deep_pink> Ok, It's connected to the board.
[02:50:18] <Deep_pink> now I'm trying to run the command.
[02:53:16] <Deep_pink> I get an error
[02:54:49] <fenn> the idea is you drive through the workpiece with g38, so if your edge is at X=1 you do G38.2 X2
[02:55:08] <fenn> if you are starting at X=0
[02:55:49] <fenn> if the probe never hits anything it's an error (if you don't want it to error use G38.3)
[02:57:56] <Deep_pink> I get "Bug unknown motion code"
[03:04:16] <Deep_pink> maybe I need to use G31?
[03:04:27] <Deep_pink> if I run
[03:04:32] <Deep_pink> G31 X10
[03:05:10] <Deep_pink> X axis strat running, and if I press the PB it's stop.
[03:05:34] <Deep_pink> this is how It's work?
[03:07:46] <Deep_pink> fenn: ?
[03:12:41] <fenn> are you using mach3?
[03:13:41] <fenn> it's g31 in mach3
[03:15:04] <Deep_pink> yes, I'm with mach3 also,
[03:15:45] <Deep_pink> I have also linux cnc in dual boot, but mach3 work better for me with the RDP
[03:16:42] <fenn> what is RDP?
[03:17:08] <fenn> remote desktop?
[03:17:11] <Deep_pink> I have remote desktop to the cnc conroller
[03:17:32] <Deep_pink> so I can control it from the solidworks computer.
[03:18:06] <varesa> Deep_pink: you might be able to use VNC on linuxcnc
[03:18:22] <Deep_pink> I try it
[03:18:40] <Deep_pink> and also NX or something like that.
[03:18:59] <Deep_pink> RDP work much better..
[03:19:50] <Deep_pink> sometimes I'm working more with linux cnc, and some times with mach3.
[03:20:53] <Deep_pink> I need to get a decent probe
[03:22:39] <Deep_pink> how the renishaw probe work?
[03:22:47] <Deep_pink> also with 3 contacts?
[03:24:43] <fenn> it's a kinematic mount with 6 contact points
[03:25:38] <fenn> if the probe moves at all in any direction, one of the 6 points will not be in contact anymore and the electrical circuit is broken
[03:27:39] <Deep_pink> but I see also piazzo electric probes
[03:28:51] <Deep_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-192-001-Touch-Signal-Probe-with-Case-FREE-SHIPPING-/151782595440?hash=item2356f29b70
[03:29:23] <Deep_pink> this is work in 3 axis? or just single axis?
[03:30:10] <fenn> i think that works like a dial test indicator
[03:30:16] <fenn> but it's electronic
[03:31:17] <Deep_pink> mmm
[03:32:07] <Deep_pink> the problem with my probe is that I dont know how to center it or how to mount it to the machine.
[03:32:45] <Deep_pink> I make the "spider" and the pcb with the 6 ball bearings,
[03:33:08] <Deep_pink> and now I have no idea how to mount it.
[03:33:33] <fenn> i thought you were going to do a flip down arm like on datron
[03:34:09] <Deep_pink> yes.
[03:34:58] <Deep_pink> but i don't know how to put all the components concentric.
[03:36:22] <Deep_pink> if the pcb is not 100% flat and parallel to the table, or 100% concentric to the tip - it's a problem
[03:39:54] <Deep_pink> It was much simple to do it on a lathe.
[03:54:04] <fenn> no, it doesn't matter if the pcb is flat because it's a kinematic mount
[03:54:49] <fenn> if you need it concentric with the spindle then you should rotate the spindle (this means it has to be wireless)
[03:55:31] <fenn> if it's not in the spindle then you have to measure the xyz offset anyway
[03:59:03] <Deep_pink> fenn: how can I measure the offsets acurate?
[03:59:30] <fenn> machine something, then measure it?
[04:00:23] <fenn> there's a lot about metrology i don't know, but this should work for normal levels of precision
[04:01:22] <fenn> machine a square, measure it, then probe multiple times from each side and take the average
[04:01:56] <fenn> Z is different because it changes every time you use a new tool
[04:02:47] <fenn> so you'd have to use some tool probe surface as your reference, instead of a specific locating surface on the spindle
[04:03:16] <Deep_pink> I'm not wondering from Z
[04:04:30] <Deep_pink> the problem with mount it like datron, is that require a lot of space, and datron use tiny probe.
[04:06:17] <Deep_pink> and I'm not sure how to solve the backlash/runout on the folding mechanism
[04:06:34] <fenn> you can put another kinematic mount on your mill head so you can detach and reattach the probe without having to measure again
[04:07:27] <Deep_pink> I'm not sure what do you mean.
[04:08:05] <fenn> a magnet, six ball bearings, and three cylinders
[04:08:38] <Deep_pink> I can't understand.
[04:08:59] <Deep_pink> the magnet will hold it to the head of the machine?
[04:09:25] <Deep_pink> why 6 bearings?
[04:09:50] <Deep_pink> and where the cylinders come in place?
[04:10:18] <fenn> i had a good page that explained all this, but my browser crashed yesterday
[04:10:35] <Deep_pink> history!
[04:11:16] <fenn> this is the sort of thing i am trying to describe: http://www.precisionballs.com/all_kinematic_platforms.php
[04:12:13] <fenn> http://www.precisionballs.com/Kinematics_Components_Catalog_105B.php#page1
[04:12:45] <fenn> they are talking about nanometers which is way more precision than you need
[04:13:14] <Deep_pink> but how It's help with the folding device?
[04:13:41] <fenn> it's not for the folding concept, this would detach and reattach
[04:14:21] <fenn> for a folding arm you would need angular contact bearings, a good repeatable stop, and some kind of spring
[04:15:15] <fenn> the same principles apply to the folding arm, but you are adding or removing one degree of freedom instead of 6
[04:16:44] <Deep_pink> I have an idea to use DC motor to unfold it, and than use electro magnet to secure it in place.
[04:17:46] <fenn> electromagnet might add unnecessary heat to the area and warp the metal
[04:18:25] <fenn> with careful design it might not be a problem
[04:18:25] <Deep_pink> heat?
[04:18:36] <Sync_> fenn: the capacitor will always stick out so much, there is no alternative, unfortunately
[04:19:38] <Sync_> it is not much higher than the IGBT module too
[04:19:44] <fenn> Sync_: can't you use a shorter fatter capacitor, or two of them?
[04:20:00] <Deep_pink> I know datron use some pneumatic system to fold it.
[04:20:00] <Sync_> well, it is the best compromise price/size/rating wise currently
[04:20:43] <Deep_pink> I wish I could buy the probe from datron.
[04:21:18] <Sync_> docu is an issue but currently a lot of things are being rearranged so there is little point in writing stuff down
[04:21:32] <Sync_> but usability is currently one of the biggest things on the todo list
[04:22:11] <fenn> Deep_pink: i think making it will be a good project
[04:22:46] <Sync_> also the thing is suprisingly little, the capacitor is not a problem at all packaging wise
[04:22:54] <Sync_> you need to heatsink the module anyway, so eh
[04:23:06] <Deep_pink> but I dont have a lathe
[04:23:13] <fenn> you don't need a lathe
[04:23:37] <Deep_pink> how i can make the axis for the folding?
[04:23:55] <Deep_pink> and i want to make the probe much smaller.
[04:24:07] <Deep_pink> now it's 30mm
[04:24:12] <fenn> Sync_: i was imagining something like this where all the drive modules are lined up along a big heatsink that forms the wall of the enclosure: http://pico-systems.com/6axis.html
[04:24:51] <fenn> or this http://pico-systems.com/smallpwm.html
[04:26:21] <Sync_> you can just do the same
[04:26:26] <Deep_pink> the spindle motor on the taig allways look like it's going to fall down.
[04:26:56] <fenn> his capacitors are the same height as the power transistors so they pack together nicely
[04:27:00] <Sync_> cooling requirements are actually quite small even at 20A motor current
[04:28:09] <Sync_> yes, it is a prototype
[04:28:43] <Sync_> there is a 2nd gen board in the pipeline that sperates the control section from the power section
[04:28:51] <Sync_> so it can be made much smaller
[04:29:28] <fenn> how much would just the power section cost?
[04:31:37] <Sync_> price it out, the bom is in the wiki
[04:33:37] <fenn> blah i wish eagle had antialiasing
[04:34:30] <Sync_> the largest items are the igbt module and the cap
[04:35:01] <fenn> oh i didn't realize there was a wiki.
[04:35:23] <Sync_> in single quantities 25$ and I think is around 9$
[04:35:30] <Sync_> +the cap
[04:35:57] <fenn> also google docs is terrible, please use something that you can put in the repository
[04:36:13] <fenn> preferably a .csv file
[04:37:04] <Sync_> are you even reading?
[04:37:07] <fenn> yes
[04:37:10] <Sync_> look two lines under the google docs
[04:37:27] <fenn> i am reading the txt BOM
[04:38:33] <fenn> ok so it is just exported from eagle
[04:40:18] <Sync_> jup, as I said, the board there is just a prototype
[04:40:28] <Deep_pink> what is the easiest metal to machine to precise dimensions?
[04:41:13] <fenn> probably brass
[04:41:45] <Deep_pink> and regular hss 2 or 4 flute will work?
[04:41:50] <fenn> yes
[04:42:26] <Deep_pink> http://www.grizzly.com/products/20-pc-2-4-Flute-TiN-End-Mill-Set/G9760
[04:42:39] <Deep_pink> this is the set that I have ^
[04:43:11] <Deep_pink> I'm thinking about make the probe much smaller.
[04:43:26] <fenn> i don't like endmills with different size shanks
[04:43:44] <fenn> too many collets
[04:44:03] <fenn> or endmill holders or whatever
[04:44:11] <Sync_> just have a good quality weldon holder for every mill
[04:44:21] <Sync_> ~endmill
[04:44:42] <fenn> you'll spend 10x more than just buying a small number of good endmills
[04:44:50] <fenn> more than that
[04:45:26] <Deep_pink> but i have no idea how to make the spider precise, and also non conductive
[04:45:46] <fenn> all my endmills are 1/8 3/8 1/2 or 3/4
[04:46:17] <Deep_pink> I dont care much
[04:47:19] <fenn> delrin/acetal
[04:47:55] <fenn> all plastics creep over time; polyimide is probably the best in this regard but it's expensive
[04:48:31] <Deep_pink> what about epoxy?
[04:48:31] <Sync_> well, I have a selection of good quality holders so I can just swap holders and not mess with collets
[04:48:44] <fenn> you could mold it with epoxy and some kind of filler like fiberglass and sand
[04:48:54] <Sync_> and 10 holders are not terribly expensive
[04:49:29] <Deep_pink> Dowel pins are precise?
[04:49:53] <Sync_> fairly
[04:50:03] <fenn> but what do you do when you have a long endmill and a short endmill and a 2 flute and a ball nose and a rougher and they all have the same size shank, now you need 50 holders
[04:50:29] <Deep_pink> and than just press them between 2 V grooves
[04:51:35] <Deep_pink> I'm use almost all the time the 1/8 3/16 3/8
[04:51:42] <Sync_> I don't use more than 10 tools concurrently
[04:51:49] <Sync_> and I do have more than 10 holders
[04:51:57] <Sync_> plus a few collet holders for akward sizes
[04:52:25] <Sync_> and changing tools in a collet is annoying because I have to measure them everytime I change them
[04:54:17] <Deep_pink> there is fiberglass block?
[04:54:32] <Sync_> yes
[04:54:39] <fenn> i think i'm going to make a bunch of 3/4 straight shank endmill holders and do like the tormach tooling system
[04:54:57] <fenn> and also have some straight shank ER collet holders
[04:55:03] <Sync_> why not just get a few weldon holders? acceptable ones are like 20-30 bux
[04:55:38] <fenn> because i'm cheap?
[04:56:26] <Deep_pink> the reason that I don't like holders, It's because it's make the tool long.
[04:56:38] <Sync_> there are very shallow ones
[04:56:46] <Deep_pink> link!
[04:57:28] <Sync_> I'd have to look again, but in cases where you really need minimum stickout therer are taper collets for SK/MK/whatever
[04:58:52] <Deep_pink> I have R8
[04:59:10] <Sync_> well, that's fine fenn, but shouldn't you rather be economic
[04:59:18] <Sync_> well, there are all sorts of R8 collets
[04:59:56] <XXCoder> hey
[05:00:13] <XXCoder> Deep_pink: trust me milling a fiberglass block isnt fun
[05:00:26] <Deep_pink> what do you think about that 0.0472 to 0.0470 tolerance for the probe spider pins
[05:01:09] <Deep_pink> XXCoder: I'm just floating ideas..
[05:01:12] <Sync_> think about it, absolute precision is not needed for the pins or the balls
[05:01:13] <fenn> Sync_: i just don't see any advantage in having a bazillion sizes of everything, just standardize on a few and suddenly everything is easier
[05:01:16] <Sync_> as it is self centering
[05:01:19] <Deep_pink> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0172664?sortby=wholesaleprice&sortdir=ascending&r=~|categoryl1:%22600000%20Fasteners%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22600108%20Pins%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22600111%20Dowel%20Pins%22|~%20~|attrdiameter:50|~
[05:01:38] <Sync_> fenn: I'm not saying you should have a lot of holders for everything
[05:01:47] <Sync_> I just have holders for my most used tools in the right sizes
[05:01:53] <Sync_> as it makes tool changes a breeze
[05:02:20] <XXCoder> Deep_pink: I know. just saying that fiberglass is pain in ass lol
[05:02:41] <Deep_pink> Sync_: I'm going to tray to make it smalll
[05:03:08] <Deep_pink> 3/64 pins with 1/8 ball bearings
[05:03:14] <Deep_pink> try*
[05:03:20] <Sync_> so what?
[05:03:35] <Deep_pink> ?
[05:04:03] <Deep_pink> I want the probe to be the smallest I can make it.
[05:04:20] <Deep_pink> and smaller = much hard to make.
[05:04:36] <Deep_pink> much hard to make = less acuracy.
[05:04:52] <Sync_> that's not true
[05:06:22] <Sync_> as the principle allows for a lot of tolerance
[05:06:44] <Deep_pink> I can get about 0.02-3 repetitive on the X / Y
[05:07:21] <Sync_> the oly problem is that your probe is not true with the axis of the spindle but you can adjust that with the principle renishaw uses
[05:07:49] <Deep_pink> Sync_: what renishaw uses??
[05:08:09] <Sync_> look at a cut diagram or at a crashed probe
[05:08:40] <Sync_> they have a cone in the back with a few screws to adjust the concentricity and position of the probe
[05:08:41] <Deep_pink> to buy a defective probe?
[05:09:14] <Sync_> that's the easiest thing to do
[05:09:17] <Sync_> they usually come cheap
[05:09:38] <Deep_pink> it's hard to fix them?
[05:09:56] <Sync_> depends on how hard they have been crashed
[05:10:01] <Sync_> usually the mechanism survives
[05:10:45] <Deep_pink> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f43/68425d1359436275-just-ran-my-probe-through-vise-image.jpg
[05:12:01] <Deep_pink> how much brand new probe like that cost?
[05:14:00] <Sync_> they are actually not that bad, the ones on MCs are I think in the range of 2-5k or something
[05:14:01] <Deep_pink> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/why-renishaw-probes-dont-make-good-endmills-215677/
[05:14:26] <Deep_pink> my whole machine is 5K..
[05:14:34] <Deep_pink> just read this ^
[05:14:39] <Deep_pink> soo funny.
[05:16:04] <Deep_pink> http://s221.photobucket.com/user/swarf_rat/media/Grinder/Probe5.jpg.html
[05:16:19] <Deep_pink> the spider look like it's metal.
[05:17:11] <XXCoder> ""Well I do'nt know plastic can not conduct electricity" " lol
[05:17:23] <XXCoder> I can't give enough DUHs on that
[05:18:06] <Sync_> sure but compare that to the cost of a VMC Deep_pink
[05:21:55] <fenn> does the spider have to be non conductive?
[05:22:27] <fenn> i don't think it does
[05:23:49] <Sync_> it doesn't matter, but it depends on the circuit you use to measure when it moves
[05:24:07] <XXCoder> HPLY CRAP!! test http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/why-renishaw-probes-dont-make-good-endmills-215677/index2.html#post1474883
[05:29:05] <XXCoder> lol this guy hates fadals
[05:29:21] <XXCoder> I use old 1988 fadal all time and it is annoying though works fine.
[05:29:57] <fenn> XXCoder: time to get practicing for that test
[05:30:13] <XXCoder> yeah not planning to do that test anytime soon
[05:30:19] <XXCoder> I cant do .0005 +- tol
[05:31:00] <XXCoder> "Guess I am feeling a bit better about the 2 inch lighted height block that got crashed by another in my shop a month ago....I was told "The height gauge will not light up". Found a 3/16 end mill pressed all the way into the top, pushing down the plunger and upon dis assembly found all the battery electrolytes (or what ever) squeezed out of those little 357 batteries. "
[05:31:08] * XXCoder facepalms
[05:31:29] <XXCoder> I had dead light-ups before and I never did that shit even when I was very rgeen intern
[05:32:44] <XXCoder> I did few stupid stuff though
[05:33:14] <XXCoder> one time I was setting Z, I forgot to rise tool up again before running program, and it started to spin and did a rapid right across part
[05:33:31] <XXCoder> lucky it was very small cut, or it'd have totaled jaws and probably spindle
[05:33:49] <XXCoder> then it lowered a little bit and milled away the goughes
[05:34:08] <XXCoder> that was abouste worse mistake I ever did. sure learned my lesson!
[05:36:06] <XXCoder> fenn: ever made a stupid mistake
[05:36:38] <Deep_pink> I want to do something. but the endmill look dead
[05:38:27] <MrSunshine> try again, anyone know what the marking "e0.1" on CMTs bits means ? is it the undersize of the bit ?
[05:38:29] <MrSunshine> router bits
[05:40:07] <Deep_pink> CRAZY http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/tribute-hard-workers-ie-crash-pictures-205633/
[05:41:03] <XXCoder> man wish machines I use has tool break check
[05:41:09] <XXCoder> I once broke 7 tools
[05:41:27] <XXCoder> that is where being deaf is a big disadvange
[05:42:14] <XXCoder> DANG http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boris_t_cat/Machining/Failed.jpg
[05:43:07] <MrSunshine> are you deaf ?
[05:43:10] <fenn> once i didn't tighten setscrew on fly cutter all the way, it did a nice little dance on the workpiece and flew across the shop
[05:43:19] <fenn> the whole body, not just the bit
[05:43:25] <XXCoder> dang
[05:43:29] <XXCoder> MrSunshine: yeah
[05:43:42] <XXCoder> one of somewhat rare TOTAL deaf
[05:43:46] <malcom2073> Guy at my work had a vaccume holddown fail on him :/
[05:43:51] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: hm ok =)
[05:43:58] <MrSunshine> always or something happened ?
[05:44:11] <malcom2073> Big part flew off, flew through the lexan shield and took a chunk out of his neck
[05:44:14] <malcom2073> he survived, barely
[05:44:17] <XXCoder> malcom2073: happened to me too. we had air "blackouts" (they evenually upgraded 2 air tanks to FOUR)
[05:44:28] <XXCoder> not the neck part., (OUCH!)
[05:44:54] <XXCoder> MrSunshine: always. waardingberg syndome (probably mispelled)
[05:44:55] <MrSunshine> malcom2073: ouchie
[05:45:04] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: ah ok ..
[05:45:12] <malcom2073> Yeah, I'm still scared of milling heh, but a little healthy fear is good
[05:45:35] <XXCoder> malcom2073: after rapid facemilling part, I sure got very careful
[05:45:49] <chrisn_> there must be some major workhold falures over the years, like complete machine write offs
[05:45:59] <MrSunshine> hard to imagine how something like that is when you arent yourself .. but i guess that being it from the start is easier then becoming deaf later in life atleast .. one thing i could never imagine to be is blind tho .. that would suck totaly
[05:46:01] <malcom2073> One of the nice things about being a hobbiest, is I can afford to go slow
[05:46:01] <XXCoder> because if it was little bit lower, say one mm, it would have broke facemill off and threw it stright towards me.
[05:46:08] <Deejay> re
[05:47:00] <XXCoder> hurco does NOT rise tool before starting program
[05:47:07] <XXCoder> most other machines I use does that
[05:48:14] <fenn> worst accidents always seem to be big lathes
[05:48:38] <fenn> 500 pound chuck at 3000 rpm is a lot of energy
[05:48:44] <XXCoder> fenn: only 2 axis (basic lathe) but MUCH more diffult to setup
[05:48:59] <XXCoder> I get scared watching guy next to me run lathe
[05:49:03] <XXCoder> damn scart
[05:55:03] <fenn> i'm surprised tormach doesn't have a patent on their "tormach tooling system"
[05:55:15] <fenn> it must have been invented a long time ago and everyone forgot
[05:56:21] <Deep_pink> fenn: patent for standart 3/4 r8 collet? and 3/4 shank holder?
[05:56:35] <SpeedEvil> More patent-applicants need shot in the head.
[05:57:03] <Deep_pink> mmm
[05:57:31] <SpeedEvil> Any patent where someone skilled in the art, posed the same problem, could come up with the same answer in under the time it takes them to do a full patent search, and applictions and ... should not be able to get a patent
[05:57:54] <Deep_pink> I'm looking here http://www.renishaw.com/shop/Product.aspx?Product=A-5000-7806
[05:58:04] <Deep_pink> and it's look soo cute
[05:58:10] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: thats not problem, the problem is billions of phone patents (500,000 really)
[05:58:24] <XXCoder> apple patented rounded rectangle
[05:58:30] <Deep_pink> I want to make a pendant from it.
[05:58:41] <Deep_pink> it's also pink..
[06:03:13] <Deep_pink> what is better ruby tip? silicon nitride? Ceramic? etc..
[06:03:29] <Deep_pink> Ruby Silver steel Silicon Nitride Tungsten Carbide Ceramic Zirconia
[06:04:33] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: the rounded rectangle was a design patent, which is a seperate problem
[06:04:46] <SpeedEvil> Deep_pink: only one of those is deep pink
[06:04:59] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: true
[06:05:47] <Deep_pink> i know.. but I'm really want to know.
[06:06:13] <SpeedEvil> I would also argue that requiring the patent to be non-obvious at the time of granting should perhaps also be invalidatable because it becomes obvious in the future, if it is clear that the march of technology in other fields has made it so.
[06:06:38] <fenn> patents are stupid and the system should be retired
[06:06:46] <SpeedEvil> fenn: I don't quite agree
[06:07:05] <XXCoder> patents is needed but its VERY broken now
[06:07:25] <SpeedEvil> fenn: Some ideas - that have a _lot_ of work put into them such that redeveloping after 17 years is not possible by most people in a tractable time-period - may be sanely patentable
[06:07:45] <SpeedEvil> Or that are actually truly novel ideas.
[06:08:03] <SpeedEvil> I would argue that perhaps 1% of patents - tops - should be granted.
[06:08:21] <XXCoder> and 0.0001% of phone related patents
[06:08:27] <fenn> there are a lot of "truly novel ideas" that get patented and never developed into actual things because the patent holder was busy with other stuff
[06:09:07] <XXCoder> in least it is known. starlite guy was paraoid and wouldn't even patent it. result: amazing insulator is lost
[06:09:11] <SpeedEvil> And yes, there should be a practice requirement, in cases of an entity capable of doing this
[06:09:20] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: if not faekd
[06:09:22] <fenn> and the insane situation with biotech or 3d graphics where everyone has patented everything and it's impossible to do anything at all
[06:09:26] <XXCoder> use or lose is good idea.
[06:09:35] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: it wasnt. NASA tested it. it was real.
[06:09:51] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: it was over 2,000 times better than space shuttle insulator tiles
[06:10:42] <fenn> i'd be in favor of an intellectual property tax; patent owner sets value of patent, and they pay some percentage of that in taxes or it returns to public domain. anyone can purchase the patent at its stated value
[06:10:58] <fenn> this would solve a lot of brokenness
[06:11:17] <XXCoder> fenn: not bad idea, it opens to comeition while inventor still benefits
[06:11:22] <XXCoder> compeition
[06:11:41] <Deep_pink> what is better small ball on the tip or big?
[06:11:56] <Deep_pink> thay cost the same.
[06:12:00] <SpeedEvil> fenn: it screws the small inventor
[06:12:11] <XXCoder> different uses Deep_pink
[06:12:11] <fenn> yeah, maybe put some exponential term in there somewhere
[06:12:22] <SpeedEvil> Deep_pink: big balls are better for averaging large surfaces and ignoring local surface dents
[06:13:44] <Deep_pink> i want it for edeg finder, hole centering and digitizing
[06:14:15] <XXCoder> I'd imange small is better for tight spaces or sharp curves
[06:15:40] <Deep_pink> now, what about star probe?
[06:16:02] <Deep_pink> http://www.renishaw.com/shop/Product.aspx?Product=A-5000-3626
[06:16:09] <Deep_pink> something like that ^
[06:16:23] <XXCoder> interesting. never saw something like that
[06:19:02] <Deep_pink> what is the purpose of it?
[06:19:05] <archivist> only 76£
[06:20:17] <Deep_pink> it's not crazy expensive..
[06:20:30] <archivist> the rest of the probe is
[06:20:35] <Deep_pink> http://www.renishaw.com/shop/stylihome.aspx
[06:20:46] <archivist> that is only the stylus
[06:20:46] <Deep_pink> archivist: i know..
[06:21:11] <Deep_pink> you miss the part with the crashed probes.
[06:21:42] <Deep_pink> archivist: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/why-renishaw-probes-dont-make-good-endmills-215677/
[06:21:46] <archivist> I understand the part about crashing,
[06:21:52] <archivist> I saw that
[06:22:05] <Deep_pink> ok..
[06:22:55] <Deep_pink> I'm trying to tink hpw to make small diameter probe.
[06:23:46] <fenn> the star probe is for communicating with VALIS
[06:25:28] <archivist> buying stylii is the easy way of getting them
[06:26:23] <archivist> been looking at some 1mm and .5mm stylii
[06:28:09] <fenn> these super fancy probes seem a little ostentatious for a chinese mill
[06:28:37] <fenn> just glue a ball bearing to some hardened drill rod
[06:29:46] <archivist> way more accuracy than a home made probe and the mill can achieve
[06:31:31] <fenn> i'm adding up the costs of major components on STMBL and so far including the big capacitor, the IRAMX, and STM32 i'm only at $35...
[06:32:35] <archivist> has he priced in soldering up on that price he quoted
[06:32:45] <fenn> not sure
[06:33:02] <fenn> i think it was 90 EUR for components and 150 assembled
[06:33:32] <archivist> one has to make a return for the effort
[06:34:33] <archivist> the main problem of open designs and source is paying oneself
[06:35:29] <fenn> i remembered wrong, he said "150 EUR for the BOM"
[06:35:37] <fenn> not sure what 90 was
[06:36:27] <Deep_pink> fenn: I want the stylii not because it's accurate, but because it's super cute pink.
[06:37:33] <XXCoder> in least its not 150 EUR for the BOOM
[06:39:17] <Sync_> you gotta remember that some components are not easily bought in single quantities, which drives up the cost for low volumes
[06:39:37] <Sync_> I think at 50 boards BOM cost comes down to 85€ or something
[06:39:42] <Sync_> + board + assembly
[09:53:22] <Rab> fenn, how much for just the STMBL PCB?
[10:15:19] <ssi> ooh castings to make a filing machine
[10:15:26] <ssi> shut up and take my money
[10:15:46] * SpeedEvil ponders CNC english wheels.
[10:16:17] <archivist> ssi where what....?
[10:16:24] <ssi> http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-18.html
[10:16:37] <ssi> reasonably priced too
[10:16:38] <archivist> been cleaning mine again today
[10:18:25] <archivist> good cast iron can live outdoors and still be reasonably easy to restore
[10:18:32] <ssi> yeah
[10:18:58] <SpeedEvil> ssi: Is that ~1700 strokes/min?
[10:19:26] <archivist> use belt reduction and a much lower stroke rate
[10:19:39] <ssi> SpeedEvil: no I doubt it
[10:19:42] <ssi> depends on the gearing
[10:19:54] <SpeedEvil> yeah - seems too fast - I can't see a speed
[10:19:59] <SpeedEvil> ah - 1" stroke - no way
[10:20:06] <archivist> I found an image of what mine should look like http://uphill.org.uk/pages/engineering/machinery/die%20filer/die%20filer%2001.htm
[10:20:16] <ssi> I think I have a spare 1/4 hp VFD laying around; I could get a 3ph motor and make mine adjustable speed :D
[10:20:41] <ssi> "should" look like... how bad is yours?
[10:20:52] <archivist> I have not dared to plug my motor in yet
[10:21:00] <ssi> what's the throat casting on top for?
[10:21:15] <archivist> supports the top of the file
[10:21:20] <ssi> ah
[10:21:33] <archivist> and has a foot to stop your item jumping
[10:21:46] <archivist> that arm is missing on mine
[10:22:08] <archivist> another very similar http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=26755
[10:22:33] <ssi> that one's shiny
[10:23:12] <ssi> I sent an email to try to buy that kit
[10:23:19] <ssi> with all his optional addons and shipping it's $233
[10:23:41] * SpeedEvil would make one with more plywood.
[10:23:57] <SpeedEvil> And a drawer slide.
[10:30:23] <archivist> uploaded the before pics http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=filing+machine
[10:31:51] <archivist> top plate was kept in the garage not garden, not so rusty
[10:32:31] <ssi> wow that first machine is a big bastard, huh
[10:32:47] <blib> What is a good CNC machine that is low maintainance, 5-axis, easy to use? :) 12" x 12" x 12" volume at most.
[10:33:28] <ssi> blib: um... haas office mill?
[10:33:33] <ssi> do they make a 5 axis option for that one?
[10:34:18] <SpeedEvil> blib: I want one of those, it should be under $100 as it's not very big, and be able to cut tool steel and birthday cake.
[10:34:24] <ssi> SpeedEvil: +1
[10:34:48] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[10:35:24] <pcw_home> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAGxNtrPiXg
[10:35:26] <pcw_home> probably a bit more than $100
[10:35:29] <ssi> archivist: that die filing kit is the very one the clockmaker guy we were discussing yesterday has
[10:35:32] <ssi> archivist: http://www.clickspringprojects.com/die-filer-or-bench-filing-machine.html
[10:35:47] <ssi> pcw_home: I'll pay $1000 for it!
[10:35:57] <ssi> that's a freakin nice machine
[10:36:24] <ssi> I don't understand why it keeps making those C moves... just to show off? doesn't seem necessary
[10:36:55] <PetefromTn_> Can you imagine what a crash on a machine like that would cost jeez..
[10:37:03] <ssi> lol don't crash it
[10:37:19] <PetefromTn_> hey man it happens to the best of us
[10:37:33] <ssi> PetefromTn_: we need to design and build a couple of nice trunnion tables for the cincis
[10:37:40] <ssi> we have enough table space to do something pretty slick
[10:37:49] <PetefromTn_> NOW you're talkin'
[10:37:51] <ssi> :)
[10:37:54] <SpeedEvil> ssi: perhaps to profile the bottom of the cut
[10:37:56] <ssi> I guess we should get our machines done first
[10:38:08] <PetefromTn_> aw man ya bringin' me down now
[10:38:14] <SpeedEvil> ssi: if you have a matching radius on the bottom of teh end-mill, you could get an astounding finish
[10:38:22] <SpeedEvil> Rather than trying to interpolate
[10:38:32] <ssi> SpeedEvil: yea I get it for the A moves, the gentle swings of the trunnion
[10:38:40] <ssi> but it keeps making 180 degree reversals in C
[10:38:43] <ssi> and I don't see the point there
[10:38:59] <ssi> also I don't see any chips fwiw :)
[10:39:00] <SpeedEvil> 'climb milling' ?
[10:39:03] <ssi> so perhaps it's just a demo
[10:39:14] <PetefromTn_> isn't it switching sides kinda in a cool way LOL
[10:39:34] <ssi> PetefromTn_: no it's not switching sides because it's keeping the tool in the same half, and moving the table to keep the tool in one place while it rotates the part
[10:39:42] <ssi> which is a cool demo of the kinematics
[10:40:03] <PetefromTn_> I know I was just kidding around
[10:40:07] <blib> SpeedEvil: Just give me the bday cake ;) - you can keep the $100 and the cnc mill ;-)
[10:40:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[10:40:20] <ssi> blib: wow that de-escalated quickly
[10:40:25] <PetefromTn_> BRAVO
[10:40:53] <ssi> http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-17.html
[10:41:35] <blib> ssi: SpeedEvil has been helping me for some time now :)
[10:41:36] <PetefromTn_> just what you need a bunch of more project machines and toys LOL
[10:41:45] <ssi> PetefromTn_: HUSH YOU
[10:41:56] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[10:42:03] <Jymmm> just what you need a bunch of more project machines and toys LOL
[10:42:21] <blib> ssi: haas looks nice
[10:42:41] <ssi> blib: yea I hope you have a spare $80k lying around
[10:42:47] <blib> 5-axis is 100k
[10:42:50] <ssi> and be prepared for feature upsell hell
[10:43:28] <blib> tormach has 5-axis too, right?
[10:43:37] <ssi> not that I've seen?
[10:43:41] <archivist> homebrew is cheaper
[10:43:45] <PetefromTn_> they do...for what it is worth
[10:43:49] <cradek> their machines are not remotely big enough
[10:44:06] <PetefromTn_> it's a 4+5
[10:44:07] <cradek> 12" cube of 5 axis takes a pretty large machine
[10:44:09] <PetefromTn_> 4+1
[10:44:09] <blib> they have 4th axis kits
[10:44:13] <ssi> yeah it does
[10:44:29] <ssi> I'm pretty sure if we made a 5 axis trunnion for our 20x20x20 cincis we wouldn't end up with 12x12x12
[10:44:37] <PetefromTn_> nope
[10:44:40] <blib> cradek: Let me slash the volume in half = 6" cube - since clearly I can't afford the 12" :)
[10:44:40] <PetefromTn_> probably not
[10:44:41] <cradek> their machines may not even be a 12" cube of 3 axis, not sure
[10:44:59] <cradek> that's 1/8th the volume, not half
[10:45:02] <ssi> blib: our 20" cube machines are 9x9 footprint and 10klb
[10:45:09] <cradek> you are really unsure about what you need :-)
[10:45:33] <cradek> what are you trying to do?
[10:45:38] <archivist> I learned how much height I didnt have when I made my machine
[10:45:42] <blib> cradek: I right now need to cut a 1" x 1" x 1" part :)
[10:45:45] <jdh> want or need
[10:45:51] <PetefromTn_> maybe he means 12x12x12mm?
[10:45:53] <cradek> what kind of part?
[10:46:02] <blib> wheel adapters
[10:46:07] <blib> for ground robots
[10:46:20] <cradek> have a picture?
[10:46:21] <PetefromTn_> 5 axis wheel adapters?
[10:46:46] <ssi> blib: perhaps you should start by learning how to make parts with more than one operation?
[10:46:50] <ssi> it's quite a bit cheaper than 5 axes :D
[10:47:13] <cradek> sounds round, so maybe it's a lathe part, a picture would help us give advice about how to make it
[10:47:23] <archivist> 4th axis on an angle mount is one way
[10:47:26] <jdh> holding a 1" part and machining is hard
[10:47:37] * PetefromTn_ shudders to think of the myriad of ways I could crash the crap out of a 5 axis machine
[10:47:44] <blib> http://pasteboard.co/95w7Knr.jpg - first part
[10:47:51] <blib> maybe one of you can just cut it out for me :)
[10:47:54] <archivist> make the part on the end of a stick
[10:47:58] <moorbo_> you guys talkin' about the pocketnc?
[10:48:05] <archivist> no
[10:48:07] <blib> cradek: pasted the pic
[10:48:18] <moorbo_> any of you order one?
[10:48:20] <blib> moorbo_: I want to get that one - if it works :)
[10:48:22] <cradek> inner hex can be hard
[10:48:25] <cradek> what's the thing in the center?
[10:48:32] <PetefromTn_> spline
[10:48:33] <moorbo_> blib: i'm overseas otherwise I would have ordered it
[10:48:34] <blib> cradek: a cylindrical hole
[10:48:39] <cradek> how sharp do the corners of the inner hex have to be?
[10:48:58] <cradek> ok, just a hole
[10:49:00] <blib> cradek: My 3d printed part is working
[10:49:03] <PetefromTn_> mill it from key stock
[10:49:14] <moorbo_> blib: but I think thats a good thing.....let people work the bugs out first...I just kinda wish more than the spindle was closed loop
[10:49:22] <archivist> a 3 axis machine can make it
[10:49:30] <cradek> brb
[10:49:46] <blib> maybe someone here can print me 25 of these :)
[10:49:53] <blib> but sooner or later I'll have to get a cnc
[10:50:01] <jdh> print?
[10:50:06] <ssi> maybe you should get a small manual mill and learn how to make it by hand first
[10:50:25] <ssi> diving into cnc with no manual machining experience is a recipe for poor results and broken tools
[10:50:30] <archivist> just buy some hex bar
[10:51:02] <moorbo_> ssi: I usually recommend people to get a unimat
[10:51:04] <moorbo_> if they can and play
[10:51:10] <blib> archivist: I don't think if I cut it myself, it will fit the hex slots that I need to fit them into - but maybe I'm under estimating myself :)
[10:51:10] <moorbo_> since its cheap and not that bad
[10:51:21] <moorbo_> like a childs mill
[10:51:56] <ssi> better than nothing
[10:51:58] <PetefromTn_> unimat?
[10:52:08] <archivist> toy mill size
[10:52:16] <archivist> and lathe
[10:52:25] <moorbo_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unimat-1-Classic-ML-Metalline-Drehen-Frasen-/351465889700?hash=item51d4ffdfa4
[10:52:29] <ssi> I think something like the grizzly 0704/BF20 or an X3 size mill is a good starting point
[10:52:38] <PetefromTn_> I never could understand the reasoning behind getting a tiny machine like that unless all you intend to make is TINY parts slowly...
[10:52:47] <ssi> although if you're serious about it and have the room you can get a bridgeport or bridgeport clone for similar money
[10:53:11] <ssi> there's a weird paradox in this market where if you're willing to tinker it's cheaper to buy a HUGE machine than a tiny one
[10:53:12] <jdh> not here
[10:53:15] <moorbo_> PetefromTn_: I think they're popular in europe because they're tiny
[10:53:23] <moorbo_> and no-one owns a basement
[10:53:24] <moorbo_> shed
[10:53:30] <moorbo_> or garage to put big machines in
[10:53:40] <moorbo_> even medium machines
[10:53:50] <moorbo_> so some crappy little machine works for what they have for room
[10:53:55] <PetefromTn_> yeah I get the small part what I don't get is the compromise between tiny machine and nearly useless machine....
[10:54:06] <moorbo_> whats nearly useless?
[10:54:08] <moorbo_> the unimat?
[10:54:16] <ssi> yeah that $800 unimat is WAY less useful than a $1000 BF20
[10:54:22] <blib> can the nomad 883 cut that part I need?
[10:54:24] <PetefromTn_> if you intend to ONLY make tiny parts it is not useless
[10:54:26] <moorbo_> I dunno what a bf20 is
[10:54:28] <moorbo_> link?
[10:54:40] <ssi> https://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704
[10:54:42] <ssi> basically that
[10:54:44] <PetefromTn_> but for MOST things it is impossible to make them
[10:54:49] <PetefromTn_> even some smaller things
[10:54:53] <moorbo_> Oh
[10:55:00] <moorbo_> yeah but I can't use that in my apartment
[10:55:03] <ssi> sure you can
[10:55:06] <ssi> it's a very small machine
[10:55:07] <PetefromTn_> why?
[10:55:07] <ssi> benchtop
[10:55:23] <ssi> 110V, can plug it into the wall
[10:55:26] <PetefromTn_> I honestly had an RF45 in a bedroom of a rented house
[10:55:27] <archivist> my 5 axis is in a bedroom
[10:55:45] <PetefromTn_> the machine actually came wired for 120v
[10:55:52] <moorbo_> weird
[10:55:53] <ssi> you maybe can't use it in your apartment because of the noise or the smell or the chips
[10:55:59] <ssi> but the unimat isn't going to solve any of those issues :)
[10:56:03] <blib> moorbo_: are you in line for the pocketnc?
[10:56:04] <archivist> or the boss
[10:56:09] <moorbo_> blib: yes
[10:56:15] <ssi> smaller machines are noisier fwiw
[10:56:15] <blib> moorbo_: when are you getting yours?
[10:56:16] <moorbo_> ssi: that is mainly the issue
[10:56:19] <blib> moorbo_: are you in the us?
[10:56:27] <moorbo_> blib: when they do international
[10:57:00] <moorbo_> ssi: the nicest thing I've experienced was a little cnc machine in a sound proofish box
[10:57:07] <moorbo_> we had in one of my old offices
[10:57:29] <archivist> the lack of support for the table means the pocketnc is going to disappoint people
[10:57:32] <moorbo_> of course that doesn't work for manual machines.
[10:57:49] <moorbo_> archivist: thats one of the reasons I'm waiting for v2 I think
[10:57:59] <blib> archivist: how long will it take you to cut 25 of the ones I showed you? How much is the material cost?
[10:58:03] <PetefromTn_> noisy, weak,flexy, problems with surface finish is all I saw from any of the smaller machines I have owned...
[10:58:28] <moorbo_> probably all good reasons why not to own them
[10:58:39] <archivist> blib, you want somebody local to you
[10:58:44] <moorbo_> but people want them
[10:58:57] <blib> archivist: I just want an estimate - so that someone local doesn't tell me it will take 24 hours of their time :)
[10:59:00] <archivist> they buy small for the wrong reasons
[10:59:13] <PetefromTn_> I think mostly a lot of people THINK they want them then when they actually get them and realize how limited they just sit on a shelf mostly
[10:59:27] <blib> PetefromTn_: I could use a small one now :)
[10:59:29] <moorbo_> theres a lot of that too
[10:59:31] <archivist> blib, there were no dimensions on your imgae!
[10:59:40] <moorbo_> PetefromTn_: like a lot of tools
[10:59:41] <jdh> I could have a small cnc mill or a divorce
[10:59:43] <PetefromTn_> blib for what?
[10:59:45] <blib> archivist: height = 16mm
[10:59:52] <moorbo_> people buy them and then find a reason
[10:59:54] <blib> PetefromTn_: need to cut some hex adapters
[11:00:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah I saw the pic
[11:00:09] <PetefromTn_> what diameter is that part?
[11:00:12] <moorbo_> realize their reason is too big for the job
[11:00:18] <blib> PetefromTn_: 10mm
[11:00:19] <moorbo_> now own useless tools
[11:00:20] <zeeshan> archivist: my sister is in luton
[11:00:22] <zeeshan> shes a doc
[11:00:23] <ssi> blib: you're not going to like the price to have something like that made
[11:00:24] <blib> sorry 20mm
[11:00:30] <ssi> blib: one off machining like that is NOT CHEAP
[11:00:31] <zeeshan> at the hospital there, is that far from you?
[11:00:42] <moorbo_> blib: you want to machine a cylinder?
[11:00:47] <moorbo_> 20mm in diametre?
[11:00:48] <archivist> zeeshan, 70 miles or more
[11:00:53] <blib> ssi: Maybe I can ask for renting the machine for a few hours :)
[11:00:58] <blib> moorbo_: yes
[11:00:59] <ssi> blib: that's not how it works :D
[11:01:07] <moorbo_> blib: why not just saw off on a bandsaw
[11:01:09] <ssi> if you want to do that, you need to find something like techshop or a hackerspace
[11:01:10] <archivist> blib, size across flats?
[11:01:18] <ssi> and it's going to take more than a few hours, because you have to learn how to do this work
[11:01:19] <PetefromTn_> blib I would honestly recommend you take that drawing to your local CNC lathe shop. They can cut it on a turning center using a hex collet
[11:01:31] <blib> archivist: 17mm outer, 12mm inner
[11:01:40] <jdh> material?
[11:01:42] <zeeshan> archivist: thats not bad :P find me a cheap level !! :P
[11:01:47] <archivist> buy 17mm hex bar
[11:01:50] <ssi> blib: what's the tolerance? what's the maximum corner radius on the inside hex?
[11:01:52] <blib> PetefromTn_: Indeed that is what I plan to do
[11:01:53] <zeeshan> super precise :)
[11:02:12] <moorbo_> blib: oh my bad. I thought it was circular
[11:02:16] <PetefromTn_> they will get it done quickly which usually means relatively cheap most likely
[11:02:54] <zeeshan> blib: how wide is that internal hex?
[11:03:08] <blib> zeeshan: 12mm between parallel sides
[11:03:18] <zeeshan> lol i dont have a rotary broach that size
[11:03:18] <zeeshan> fak
[11:03:20] <zeeshan> n
[11:03:21] <zeeshan> m
[11:03:26] <ssi> zeeshan: you have rotary broaches?!
[11:03:27] <ssi> I want some :(
[11:03:54] <zeeshan> yessir
[11:03:59] <ssi> they work well?
[11:04:00] <zeeshan> its perfect for this little dinky stuff
[11:04:04] <ssi> they always looked amazing to me
[11:04:18] <zeeshan> you can make the holder yourself
[11:04:20] <zeeshan> for very cheap
[11:04:21] <ssi> also is it possible to rotary broach a hex like that inside a hex and guarantee the flats will be parallel?
[11:04:29] <zeeshan> it needs to allow pivoting about a central point
[11:04:31] <blib> archivist: can I give you the openscad program - it will give you the precise measurements?
[11:04:36] <zeeshan> the falls will be parallel
[11:04:36] <ssi> like 1.5 degree off axis or something?
[11:04:46] <zeeshan> yes around there
[11:04:53] <ssi> I don't mean parallel within the internal hex, I mean parallel to the external hex
[11:05:04] <zeeshan> yes it will be parallel to the extenral hex
[11:05:07] <ssi> how?
[11:05:07] <zeeshan> cause the feed path is parallel
[11:05:08] <ssi> what sorcery?
[11:05:14] <ssi> ugh you're not understanding me
[11:05:22] <ssi> draw a hexagon on a piece of paper
[11:05:27] <ssi> then draw another more different hexagon inside it
[11:05:36] <ssi> are the top flats parallel?
[11:05:42] <zeeshan> yes
[11:05:49] <zeeshan> after the first chamfer
[11:05:51] <zeeshan> entry
[11:06:03] <ssi> wat
[11:06:24] <zeeshan> if i understanding you correctly, the reason youre asking this is because you want to know if you can put in a allen key in there
[11:06:28] <PetefromTn_> OMG that pocketnc machine is tiny...what is the actual machining envelope in 5 axis mode?
[11:06:28] <ssi> NO
[11:06:29] <zeeshan> and not have it be at some f'ed up angle
[11:06:32] <ssi> his drawing is a hex in a hex
[11:06:42] <ssi> if you just plunge a rotary broach into the end of some hex stock
[11:06:58] <ssi> how do you guarantee that the inner hex you cut is aligned with the outer hex of the hex stock
[11:07:14] <archivist> zeeshan, rofl, did not sell at 39 so put the price up! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281770812275
[11:07:22] <zeeshan> ssi the center of rotation doesnt change
[11:07:31] <ssi> sigh never mind
[11:07:37] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2OAISkHHbI
[11:07:39] <zeeshan> just look here
[11:07:45] <PetefromTn_> its a lathe broach right?
[11:07:46] <zeeshan> the edge of the broach stays where it always was
[11:08:08] <zeeshan> also if you really care about making it parallel
[11:08:09] <ssi> are you doing this on a mill?
[11:08:13] <zeeshan> you could always do the external hex outside
[11:08:14] <ssi> I've only ever seen it done on a lathe
[11:08:19] <ssi> and the work spins
[11:08:20] <zeeshan> yea its on a mill
[11:08:27] <ssi> so I don't know how you'd align the tool when it started plunging
[11:08:35] <zeeshan> no idea
[11:08:35] <zeeshan> rofl
[11:08:39] <ssi> I guess you could make it contact the work before you turned it on and hope the tool doesn't slip
[11:08:53] <zeeshan> you could machine a small bump there
[11:08:59] <zeeshan> to get the edges to catch there
[11:09:05] <zeeshan> but i'd prolly just do the internal hex first
[11:09:08] <zeeshan> then align with outside
[11:09:14] <ssi> hard to do if you're trying to make it out of hex stock!
[11:09:24] <ssi> the whole point of doing this with a rotary broach is to make it a simple cheap part to make
[11:09:28] <ssi> chuck up some hex stock
[11:09:31] <ssi> drill a center bore
[11:09:34] <ssi> broach the hex
[11:09:34] <ssi> part
[11:09:40] <ssi> one op
[11:09:51] <zeeshan> well there isn't really much other ways to put that type of feature
[11:09:58] <zeeshan> without having a tiny little radius there
[11:09:59] <zeeshan> or forming it
[11:10:08] <ssi> thats why I asked his corner radius tolerance
[11:10:11] <ssi> but got no response there :)
[11:10:21] <ssi> but you can do a clearance radius in the corner
[11:10:23] <zeeshan> he was asking this q a couple days ago i think
[11:10:25] <ssi> if you need zero radius
[11:10:26] <zeeshan> we recommended firstcut
[11:10:28] <archivist> this is one of those jobs where the tools you have are important
[11:10:42] <ssi> archivist: it's one of those jobs where the TOLERANCE is important!
[11:11:04] <zeeshan> ssi so i finally got around to learning about different motor type syesterday
[11:11:10] <zeeshan> had some spare time while doing experiments :P
[11:11:16] <ssi> zeeshan: you mean induction vs brushless, etc?
[11:11:17] <archivist> needs a proper drawing not a solid model :)
[11:11:21] <zeeshan> im a bit confused between induction vs brushless
[11:11:37] <zeeshan> in induction you have an electromagnet in the stator
[11:11:40] <zeeshan> which is rotating..
[11:11:52] <zeeshan> inducing current into the rotor which will generate a magnetic field
[11:11:53] <ssi> induction motors have a field winding which creates a rotating magnetic field with the rotating AC current
[11:11:59] <zeeshan> there is a lag between these 2 magnetic fields
[11:12:00] <zeeshan> aka slip
[11:12:06] <archivist> the rotating inner becomes a magnet by induction
[11:12:21] <zeeshan> but in the case or a brushless
[11:12:31] <zeeshan> the stator is a permanent magnet for example
[11:12:32] <archivist> pm inner
[11:12:35] <ssi> permanent magnet dc motors have a fixed pm field and the rotor changes its magnetic field via commutation
[11:12:40] <zeeshan> and you have 6 coils, just like a 3 phase motor
[11:12:50] <archivist> stepper on steroids
[11:12:52] <ssi> brushless motors have fixed pm field in the rotor and the stator has three windings which are electrically commutated
[11:12:57] <zeeshan> which you commutate in the correct order to get rotation
[11:12:59] <ssi> right
[11:13:12] <zeeshan> its literally the reverse of an ac induction motor
[11:13:15] <zeeshan> but correct me if im wrong..
[11:13:17] <ssi> well, not really
[11:13:25] <ssi> it's very very different from an ac induction motor
[11:13:32] <zeeshan> the fact that you have permanent magnet on the stator
[11:13:41] <zeeshan> means you're not going to get a lag?
[11:13:46] <zeeshan> because you dont have induce a field
[11:13:59] <ssi> yeah brushless motors are synchronous
[11:14:05] <zeeshan> which is why they are sync
[11:14:11] <zeeshan> and better for control apps
[11:14:15] <archivist> do not confuse lag with slip
[11:14:32] <zeeshan> archivist: it takes time for the current to travel through the rotor
[11:14:36] <zeeshan> so thats why im calling it lag
[11:15:02] <zeeshan> like the rotor will try to catchj up to the stator
[11:15:04] <zeeshan> but it cant
[11:15:13] <zeeshan> cause it's gotta get induced first! :P
[11:15:20] <archivist> slip is the process of the core cutting the magnetic lines of the field
[11:15:37] <archivist> inducing teh current
[11:16:15] <zeeshan> its stuck in my head a way i can understand :P
[11:16:31] <zeeshan> so since it seems like we're on the same page -- here's the q
[11:16:35] <archivist> which is why induction motors are always slower than the rotating field
[11:16:44] <zeeshan> it seems to be slip is a very constant feature
[11:16:57] <archivist> no it is load specific
[11:17:23] <zeeshan> is it?
[11:17:28] <ssi> slip is specified as the difference between electrical speed and nameplate speed at rated load I believe
[11:17:29] <zeeshan> but even in that case
[11:17:38] <zeeshan> why cant you put an encoder on the rotor
[11:17:40] <blib> what's parasol file format?
[11:17:43] <archivist> put more load on slips more, induces more in the core
[11:17:44] <zeeshan> and just have feedback?
[11:17:49] <just_pink> how the electronic edge finder work?
[11:17:59] <zeeshan> ssi yes thats the formula :P
[11:18:14] <zeeshan> but why it happens is cause of the inducttion process
[11:18:15] <ssi> heh
[11:18:15] <blib> the local shop says give me a parasol file format file?
[11:18:37] <zeeshan> paraSOLID
[11:18:38] <archivist> never heard of that format
[11:18:48] <zeeshan> tell them to speak properly :P
[11:18:52] <blib> I guess it was parasolid?
[11:19:30] <PetefromTn_> just_pink it is just a simple circuit that runs thru the machine itself to light an LED when the end touched your part....
[11:19:35] <zeeshan> i guess even if you have an encoder on the rotor of an ac motor
[11:19:36] <blib> k - is there a converter from STL to parasolid somewhere?
[11:19:47] <zeeshan> you can't really predict how much voltage to pump
[11:19:53] <zeeshan> to move the rotor a certain amount
[11:20:00] <just_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Probe-Electronic-Edge-Finder-LED-Beep-Milling-Lathe-Machining-Tool-XG-/271937865241?hash=item3f50c28619
[11:20:13] <zeeshan> while in ac servo motors or even dc servo motors
[11:20:25] <archivist> zeeshan, the important thing is the are not variable speed
[11:20:27] <zeeshan> movement of directly proportional to the electric parameters
[11:20:37] <just_pink> it has 3 contacts?
[11:20:42] <zeeshan> you basically want a sync motor for position applications
[11:21:01] <PetefromTn_> just_pink honestly I have one of these and it is less than stellar...my recommendation would be to get a quality mechanical edge finder like a Starrett
[11:21:07] <zeeshan> archivist: what is not variable speed
[11:21:15] <ssi> yeah mechanical edge finders are really nice once you figure them out
[11:21:40] <zeeshan> ive never used an electronic edge finder myself
[11:21:44] <blib> archivist: for the part I showed you, is aluminium or steel or something else better? It has to take a lot of torque?
[11:21:46] <zeeshan> but i find it funny that whenever you go to a machine shop
[11:21:50] <zeeshan> they're never using one lol
[11:21:55] <zeeshan> its always sitting in the toolbox
[11:21:57] <archivist> a normal induction motor cannot come down to very low rpm
[11:22:06] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: I want to make a probe
[11:22:08] <zeeshan> archivist: that's true!
[11:22:30] <just_pink> so maybe I can use it as a probe??
[11:22:31] <PetefromTn_> decent probes are great but I use a starrett mechanical all the time... VERY accurate
[11:22:37] <zeeshan> archivist: actually idont see why not
[11:22:40] <zeeshan> i was thinking of the wrong thing
[11:22:57] <zeeshan> lets say the stator mag field rotates 1 degree
[11:23:07] <archivist> at 0speed you have no slip
[11:23:07] <zeeshan> the rotor should move <1 degree
[11:23:43] <pcw_home> to get torque at 0 speed you need slip
[11:23:46] <just_pink> but what make the electrinic edge finder to work?
[11:23:52] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARRETT-EDGE-FINDER-827A-NEW-IN-BOX-/301700727037?hash=item463ec3c0fd
[11:24:01] <zeeshan> okay this will help me understand it a bit better -- what you 2 are saying
[11:24:16] <zeeshan> if lets say i had a stationary magnetic field in the stator
[11:24:22] <zeeshan> and i tried to spin the rotor by hand
[11:24:25] <zeeshan> would i feel resistance?
[11:24:29] <archivist> some
[11:24:33] <pcw_home> its damped
[11:24:43] <pcw_home> (this is dc injection)
[11:24:47] <zeeshan> yes
[11:24:51] <zeeshan> so i dont see why you need slip
[11:24:56] <zeeshan> to get torque at 0 speed
[11:25:09] <PetefromTn_> just_pink if you take a piece of metal to the electronic one and touch the ball end to the body it lights the LED. it also works when it touches the part and goes thru the body of the machine
[11:25:10] <archivist> damping is not providing torque
[11:25:19] <zeeshan> i guess it's just holding the rotor stationary
[11:25:33] <pcw_home> because if you dont rotate the field it will slip at a rate proportional to torque
[11:25:35] <zeeshan> but if you mvoe the stator 1 degree
[11:25:38] <zeeshan> the rotor should move though?!
[11:25:44] <archivist> think of it as viscous
[11:25:55] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: so it's act like inductive sensore?
[11:26:05] <pcw_home> yep viscous clutch
[11:26:08] <PetefromTn_> my problem with them is that they sometimes don't work well on large pieces of aluminum and they don't work at all on anything non conductive
[11:26:29] <PetefromTn_> just_pink it is just a simple circuit no real sensor at all...
[11:26:31] <Jymmm> just_pink:
[11:26:55] <pcw_home> with one part of the clutch being the rotating field
[11:27:03] <Jymmm> just_pink: "electronic edge finder" == conductive light bulb using the machine as one of the condutors.
[11:27:49] <blib> does anyone have a converter from STL to paraSolid?
[11:27:52] <PetefromTn_> just_pink I have one here I bought from Shars....it is a piece of junk really..
[11:28:00] <zeeshan> i feel like a parrot, but if youre movving the stator mag field 1 degree
[11:28:01] <archivist> throw some iron powder in the magnetic gap for a proper clutch
[11:28:10] <zeeshan> then you are technically inducing current into the rotor
[11:28:16] <zeeshan> and it should move cause it'll generate a field
[11:28:30] <Jymmm> archivist: graphite?
[11:28:48] <pcw_home> you generate these currents when you try to move the rotor with a DC field
[11:29:16] <just_pink> ok.. so the ball at the tip is isolated
[11:29:39] <Jymmm> just_pink: Nope
[11:29:49] <pcw_home> and they always oppose motion ( lenz's law )
[11:29:56] <just_pink> isolated from the machine..
[11:29:57] <Jymmm> well, shouldn't be, thenit wouldn't make electrical contact
[11:30:30] <PetefromTn_> yeah the ball is isolated from the body/machine
[11:31:06] <pcw_home> if the rotor had superconducting windings it would not slip
[11:31:09] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I guess it would depend on what type of edge finder... one with a lead, or one that use the body
[11:31:26] <PetefromTn_> I am talking about the one she linked to one like mine
[11:31:40] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i guess need some liquid nitrogen circulating through it :P
[11:31:42] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: OH, gotcha. I didn't see it.
[11:32:01] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: HEy, do you MAKE airguns,or just accessories for them?
[11:32:42] <PetefromTn_> I have built several airguns from scratch yeah
[11:33:04] <pcw_home> an induction motor is basically just a transformer with the secondary shorted out
[11:33:07] <zeeshan> pcw_home: my 1 degree example -- you don't like it? :{
[11:33:21] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Ok, I might pick your brain some time down the road.
[11:33:57] <pcw_home> rotating the stator one degrees is the same as rotation the field one degree
[11:34:12] <zeeshan> yes
[11:34:13] <PetefromTn_> Ok yeah I mostly built Pre charged Pneumatic rifles and pistols for target use that run on 3k psi compressed air
[11:34:17] <zeeshan> but when the field rotates 1 degree
[11:34:22] <zeeshan> the rotor should move like .7 degrees ?
[11:34:40] <zeeshan> actually
[11:34:42] <zeeshan> itll move 1 degree also
[11:34:46] <zeeshan> but it'll be phase shifted
[11:34:53] <pcw_home> depends on load
[11:35:05] <zeeshan> lets say 0 load
[11:35:20] <zeeshan> if you were to have encoders on both
[11:35:26] <pcw_home> zero is a funny number...
[11:35:30] <ssi> haha
[11:35:32] <zeeshan> i really think you'd see they were phase shifted
[11:35:42] <zeeshan> well you'll technically never have 0 load
[11:35:46] <zeeshan> cause you have the mass of the rotor
[11:35:49] <zeeshan> that you need to accelerate
[11:36:07] <pcw_home> both phase and frequency shifted
[11:36:19] <zeeshan> now if you put load on the rotor in the same scenario
[11:36:32] <pcw_home> more load = more slip
[11:36:33] <zeeshan> i think you would just notice a different phase and frequency
[11:36:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You built one of these for your tractor yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVtvQgpQNGU
[11:36:45] <zeeshan> and the fact that it'll never reach 1 degree
[11:36:58] <zeeshan> but given enough time, itll reach 1 degree
[11:37:36] <zeeshan> :P
[11:37:46] <zeeshan> basically at the end of the day i want to be able to answer
[11:37:49] <PetefromTn_> woah that was effective ;)
[11:37:56] <zeeshan> "why can't you use an ac induction motor for positional control"
[11:38:02] <pcw_home> this is why you get 1725 or 3450 RPM from a 60 hz induction motor
[11:38:03] <zeeshan> "while you can use a stepper / servo "
[11:38:39] * Jymmm hands zeeshan a beaver (roughing) and termites (finishing) for his woodworking
[11:38:43] <pcw_home> mainly it has to do with maintaining rotor flux through things like reversals
[11:39:46] <pcw_home> it is possible with very fancy controls (I've read some papers on using induction motors as servos and its possible)
[11:39:54] * zeeshan is just going to say one is async and the other is sync
[11:39:54] <zeeshan> :P
[11:40:06] <zeeshan> and async is very complex :P
[11:40:14] <zeeshan> too many parameters to mess with to determine rotor position
[11:40:17] <pcw_home> normal induction motors have too high inertia
[11:40:20] <zeeshan> as a function of voltage, current and freq
[11:40:32] <zeeshan> phase i mean not freq
[11:40:43] <pcw_home> (wrong rotor aspect ratio)
[11:40:56] <zeeshan> rotor has too much inertia?
[11:41:37] <pcw_home> low inertia needs a long narrow rotor
[11:41:46] * zeeshan just needs enough knowledge on this subject to know what's going on :P
[11:42:02] <zeeshan> but not so much that someone asks me to design a motor
[11:42:39] <ssi> lol
[11:42:40] <Jymmm> wikipedia?
[11:42:41] <zeeshan> theres a couple mechatronic guys designing motors
[11:42:51] <zeeshan> and they keep talking about how torque ripple is the devil
[11:42:59] <zeeshan> and their focus is to minimize or eliminate it
[11:43:14] <zeeshan> cause they're using this in an application like steering
[11:43:25] <zeeshan> so it gets amplifed cause of the wheel size
[11:43:37] <Jymmm> 45" wheels?
[11:43:54] <zeeshan> basically i didnt understand a single thing they said
[11:43:59] <zeeshan> so i felt lost :), i dont want to feel like that!
[11:44:13] <ganzuul> Could you use a chuck from a wood turning lathe on a metal lathe? They seem to be much, much cheaper...
[11:44:14] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Got GPS
[11:44:26] <CaptHindsight> heh, a large OEM asked me about some chemical tech and actually had the nerve to say "we cannot bring you any details"
[11:44:29] <zeeshan> Jymmm: everyone has gps!
[11:44:31] <CaptHindsight> "at this time trying to understand if there is a strategic fit for **** to partner with #### e.g. what are your core strengths/ capabilities, is there technology different to what **** already has internally etc."
[11:44:41] <Jymmm> zeeshan: then you wont be lost =)
[11:44:46] <zeeshan> lol
[11:44:48] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: nice
[11:45:09] <CaptHindsight> so tell us everything and we tell you nothing, it's for us to decide
[11:45:22] <CaptHindsight> where do they find these people?
[11:45:32] <ganzuul> Or, nevermind. Apparently people have been trying to sell me chucks which are expensive as hell...
[11:45:35] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Nice.... NOT. I hopw you told them to GTFO
[11:45:37] <zeeshan> stock market crashing is having p-eople nervous :)
[11:47:01] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Heh, make them sign a 32 page Non-disclosure / Non-cemepete agreeement, then when they show up, say no thanks, we changed our mind.
[11:49:02] <Jymmm> ping
[11:49:37] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: nah, for fun you just start making things up (if you're really bored)
[11:49:48] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: haha
[11:55:50] <Jymmm> Finally got the car back together last night. Why the hell do they make TALL gear oil bottles is beyond me
[12:07:36] <renesis> jymmm: i think maybe so they fit in the long skinny funnels
[12:11:06] <ganzuul> :O
[12:11:19] <ganzuul> I found a Bridgeport for 900e
[12:11:38] <ganzuul> 890kg, and got nowhere to put it...
[12:12:04] <ssi> that's the way to go
[12:12:34] <ganzuul> I live in an appartmentbuilding... 5th floor.
[12:15:40] <just_pink> ganzuul: same problem here :(
[12:16:29] <just_pink> second floor - wood house
[12:16:59] <ssi> yeah I dunno if you're gonna get a bridgeport on the 5th floor of an apartment :P
[12:18:33] <just_pink> ganzuul: look on the positive side - it will make you a basement
[12:19:59] <pcw_home> and an new elevator shaft
[12:21:10] <just_pink> LOL
[12:22:15] <just_pink> ganzuul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XVUXgA2DZY
[12:22:34] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL0ovgc4miA
[12:27:17] <ganzuul> lol
[12:27:52] <just_pink> now the bridgeport look soo tiny..
[12:27:54] <ganzuul> well I sent out 11 job applications for jobs in the metal industry
[12:28:34] <just_pink> ganzuul: you hav a cnc?
[12:28:51] <just_pink> have*
[12:29:32] <ganzuul> I have a plunge router.
[12:29:53] <ganzuul> I bought it for 39 euros, and it has a better build quality than Festool crap
[12:30:44] <just_pink> you have just router? or also 3 axis to move it?
[12:32:04] * ganzuul has arms...
[12:32:27] <ganzuul> A compass and straightedge ought to be enough for anybody!
[12:33:30] <ganzuul> I also ordered some flux and brazing wire from China.
[12:35:54] <just_pink> ganzuul: but why you want a cnc?
[12:36:26] <archivist> all normal people want a cnc....dont they?
[12:36:41] <ganzuul> ^--- this
[12:37:10] <archivist> al the abnormals want repcraps :)
[12:37:34] <ganzuul> I'm also rather tired of inventing stuff and never going further than telling everybody about my latest invention, and never building it.
[12:38:01] <ganzuul> So I need tools.
[12:38:26] <ganzuul> I figure with a 5-axis CNC machine I could make all the tools I need.
[12:38:38] <ganzuul> Just buy electric motors and metal.
[12:38:52] <ganzuul> And lube.
[12:39:33] <ganzuul> Maybe set up a machine to make the tools I need the next day, and go fishing?
[12:39:36] <just_pink> archivist: I didn't want a cnc, but I like to make stuff and also my nails. it avoid working hard with my hand, and keep my nails long :-)
[12:40:38] <just_pink> ganzuul: you can't leave the machine while it running
[12:40:41] <CaptHindsight> new rules for Home Machinists ..... #1 Live on the first floor of a building with concrete floors
[12:41:22] <CaptHindsight> a basement is also ok for moving into, out ... well not so much
[12:41:24] <ganzuul> just_pink: Then I'll make a robot to tend to it.
[12:42:14] <just_pink> ganzuul: you are going to kill some poor end mills....
[12:43:26] <ganzuul> Then I'll make a bunch of them. disposable. :)
[12:43:49] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: the other problem is that the gear oil spout to ~1/2" tube adapters leak if you squeeze the bottle
[12:44:04] <ganzuul> Get a bunch of carbide waterjet cut and brace it to random bits of steel.
[12:44:09] <ganzuul> ~ braze
[12:44:14] <just_pink> today i found that the maglite solitaire fit nice in 1/2 collet
[12:45:30] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: and have a flat concrete driveway from the road to your property, with a fully dropped kerb at the road
[12:45:59] <just_pink> any idea for using maglite on the mill?
[12:46:31] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p96LHhmJqh0 - professional moldmaking.
[12:46:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:47:25] <ganzuul> just_pink: I suppose eventually I'll learn how not to break end mills...
[12:49:11] <just_pink> we are at 2015 - concrete ???
[12:49:31] <ganzuul> SpeedEvil: Seems the guy found an even more expensive way to make molds than tool steel.
[12:49:39] <just_pink> carbon fiber not good enough?
[12:50:37] <just_pink> ganzuul: take the I dea and make small epoxy granit machine.
[12:50:44] <just_pink> idea*
[12:51:03] <ganzuul> I does actually have a nice brutalist esthetic.
[12:52:08] <SpeedEvil> Ideal if you live in a 1960s communist skyrise block
[12:52:14] <ganzuul> hm... I really do need to move/
[12:54:40] <ganzuul> Well poop. Appartment buildings have cheapo rent.
[12:56:00] <archivist> dont rent, get your own place for freedom to do what you want
[12:56:54] <ganzuul> Need a job first... Sent 11 job applications today suggestion apprenticeship, since I'm too impatient to wait for the schools I have applied to.
[12:57:19] <ganzuul> I'm an IT pro, but I'm really tired of all the BS in my own field.
[12:57:43] <ganzuul> ~suggesting
[13:03:28] <just_pink> ganzuul: I'm also come from IT
[13:04:03] <just_pink> if you want money - fun > cnc
[13:07:10] <just_pink> SUBWAY TIME
[13:07:42] <_methods> say high to jared
[13:07:55] <_methods> hi even
[13:20:55] <zeeshan> https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10152433_755803661184875_718489343222220519_n.jpg?oh=acfa1afd468b3a478b2a1f8386d80ebe&oe=5666CC28
[13:20:57] <zeeshan> ROFL
[13:23:05] <ganzuul> hah!
[13:23:40] <Computer_barf> is there some sort of simple way i can use linuxcnc like a powerfeed
[13:24:14] <Computer_barf> sometimes I have parts that im manually making with the keyboard and it would be nice to not have to hold down the button for so long
[13:24:52] <zeeshan> you use the mdi
[13:24:58] <skunkworks> it is called gcode..
[13:25:01] <skunkworks> ;0
[13:25:03] <zeeshan> haha
[13:25:59] <zeeshan> this would b e a dangerous feature to add
[13:26:13] <zeeshan> but maybe instead of momentary buttons for jog, you could have a toggle type button for jogging
[13:26:22] <zeeshan> but i can see people crashing their shit really good with that if not careful
[13:26:32] <skunkworks> that just seems like a bad idea
[13:26:34] <just_pink> Computer_barf: use the keayboard
[13:26:36] <zeeshan> so maybe add it as a discrete option
[13:26:50] <Computer_barf> how is the danger of what im suggesting any more troublesome than a power feed?
[13:26:52] <skunkworks> just set something heavy on the key
[13:27:00] <just_pink> arrows and pgup pgdn
[13:27:16] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: cause with powerfeed you use a tactile lever
[13:27:22] <zeeshan> with a key, in a panic scenario
[13:27:27] <zeeshan> you must start tapping it rapidly
[13:27:32] <zeeshan> which turns it on and off rapidly
[13:27:35] <zeeshan> with a lever it's hard to do that.
[13:27:42] <zeeshan> but with some training you can i guess avoid that
[13:27:51] <zeeshan> must = might
[13:28:12] <zeeshan> the tap type keys would be nice when squaring stock
[13:28:18] <zeeshan> where you dont really care about inputting a specific g-code
[13:28:56] <zeeshan> but i really don't th ink that should be a feature for public release
[13:29:04] <zeeshan> something add on yourself
[13:29:12] <zeeshan> *you
[13:29:42] <Computer_barf> it would be nice if in axis you could enter in the jog speed with the keyboard
[13:30:13] <cradek> Computer_barf: check out the keyboard quick reference on the help menu
[13:30:18] <Computer_barf> i suppose i need to figure out some basic gcode to have my x move
[13:30:39] <cradek> but yeah, mdi is the simple way to do a long slow cut
[13:31:02] <Computer_barf> cradek: ahh so there is a way to do it i guess. I just figured it would nicer if the inerface had a text input
[13:32:35] <Computer_barf> im not suggesting i just walk away from it , im right here next to it, just sometimes I do cuts where its going pretty damn slow and its literally me watching it move 10mm/min
[13:32:55] <cradek> g1 f10 x0
[13:33:09] <cradek> g1 f10 x100
[13:33:12] <just_pink> Computer_barf: you just need to type G0 X100
[13:33:18] <cradek> power feed that stops in exactly the right place!
[13:33:25] <just_pink> f = feedrate
[13:33:30] <cradek> it's a modern-day miracle
[13:33:47] <just_pink> f10 = 10 mm or inch per min
[13:34:08] <just_pink> Computer_barf: ^ ?
[13:34:20] <Computer_barf> sorry guys im gcode illiterate , ok so i guess that code i set the x 0 to where I want it to end
[13:35:03] <Computer_barf> and that code is essentially returning me to zero. correct?
[13:37:14] <just_pink> Computer_barf: you home the machine > than zero all the axes > than whatever gode you type or run in the mdi is relative to the zero that you set,
[13:37:31] <just_pink> G0 x0 will move the axis to the zero.
[13:38:50] <just_pink> g0 x10 will move it 10 mm or inch, g0 x-10 will move it 10 mm or inch to the othe direction of the zero point. so from 10 to -10 is 20
[13:39:14] <just_pink> Computer_barf: try to play with it.
[13:39:40] <just_pink> and stay close to the E-stop :-)
[13:44:46] <ssi> nonononono
[13:44:47] <ssi> not G0
[13:44:50] <ssi> G0 is rapid
[13:45:06] <ssi> G1 respects feedrate, which you very much want if you're using it as a powerfeed
[13:45:28] <zeeshan> when your machine only does 200 ipm
[13:45:30] <zeeshan> g0 is fine
[13:45:31] <zeeshan> :-)
[13:45:38] <zeeshan> more like :(
[13:45:40] <ssi> not if you're trying to mill steel!
[13:45:47] <zeeshan> dude this face mill i got
[13:45:55] <ganzuul> What happens if G0 is undefined... in general? Is there a G-code standard for defaults, or are you just inciting chaos?
[13:45:55] <ssi> sorry let me restate
[13:45:56] <zeeshan> the mitsubishi one, its a low doc high feed face milkl
[13:45:59] <zeeshan> it wants 200ipm!!
[13:46:13] <ssi> if you're running a tiny benchtop mill and trying to powerfeed an endmill through steel
[13:46:16] <ssi> 200ipm is going to break something
[13:46:37] <zeeshan> the machine
[13:46:39] <zeeshan> :)
[13:46:39] <ssi> ganzuul: wat?
[13:46:53] <zeeshan> g0 undefined? :P
[13:47:05] <zeeshan> we'd have a lot of pissed of people out there
[13:47:08] <ssi> zeeshan: I can't wait to get my cinci running.... I want to see what a 6" facemill with 15hp 10krpm spindle will do to aluminum :D
[13:47:15] <ganzuul> Is there a standard which says what to do when you have not conigured your machine properly?
[13:47:16] <zeeshan> it will rape it
[13:47:17] <zeeshan> tha tis what
[13:47:19] <ssi> RAPE
[13:47:20] <zeeshan> #40 taper right?
[13:47:22] <ssi> yea
[13:47:23] <zeeshan> nice
[13:47:32] <zeeshan> thats kinda getting at the limit of the 40 taper though :
[13:47:33] <zeeshan> :P
[13:47:35] <ssi> ganzuul: are you talking about feedrate?
[13:47:41] <ssi> ganzuul: G0 doesn't respect feedrate
[13:47:52] <ssi> it uses the rapid settings of the axis
[13:48:29] <ssi> or rather.... it'll use the lowest speed between the max velocity of every axis involved and the max velocity of the machine in general along the particular path you've asked for
[13:48:33] <ssi> something like that anyway
[13:49:10] <ganzuul> huh...
[13:49:28] <ssi> I don't really know what you're asking :)
[13:49:34] <Sync_> zeeshan: some want even MOAR feedrate
[13:49:42] <ssi> Sync_: don't talk to zeeshan about feedrate
[13:49:48] <ssi> he gets upset when feedrates get much above 200ipm
[13:50:13] <zeeshan> :)
[13:50:15] <ssi> :D
[13:50:15] <ganzuul> You have to specify what those max velocities are, right? If you don't do that, is there a default which lets you launch your spindle across the street?
[13:50:18] * ssi hugs zeeshan
[13:50:41] <ssi> ganzuul: those are all set up in your ini
[13:50:54] <ssi> I don't know what it'd do if you don't have velocities listed, but I imagine the answer is 'not start'
[13:51:13] <ssi> the max accels play into it the same way
[13:51:14] <ganzuul> I hope that's the answer...
[13:51:19] <ssi> you won't get anything that violates any of those maximums in any way
[13:51:22] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[13:51:42] <ganzuul> And that the answer is standardized, so you don't get a surprise when you use someone else's machine.
[13:51:43] <ssi> furthermore, if you did have high enough values in those settings, the machine will just stall
[13:51:53] <ssi> because you likely don't have infinite motor power to go along with your infinite velocity and accel :D
[13:52:20] <zeeshan> i was tuning my max velocities
[13:52:23] <zeeshan> and accels the other day
[13:52:23] <ssi> usually in the process of machine integration, those numbers get set to the maximum values that the machine is even capable of doing in an unloaded jog
[13:52:33] <ganzuul> Might have a few kilowatts. Over a fraction of a second that's enough to ruin someone's day.
[13:53:01] <ssi> a few kilowatts still doesn't have enough torque to accelerate the mass of a moderately sized machine in a fraction of a second to ruin much of your day
[13:53:02] <ganzuul> ah
[13:54:26] <ganzuul> So you always oversize the machine frame over the worst-case load? No saving money in software?
[13:54:48] <ssi> you can save all you want in software
[13:55:22] <PetefromTn_> Lord do I ever hate mowing my lawn....
[13:55:27] <ssi> if you're talking about building a machine from scratch, you size the machine for the workpiece weight you want, the accel and velocity you want to be able to tolerate, the depth of cut and feedrate you want, etc
[13:55:37] <ssi> but if you're not Haas, you don't do it that way
[13:55:43] <ssi> you build what you're capable of building and can afford
[13:55:51] <ssi> then you size the motors adequately for what you built
[13:55:57] <ssi> then you tune the software to run as fast as you can for what you have
[13:56:12] <ssi> and it's a very inexact thing in the diy world
[13:56:17] <ssi> you learn where your bottlenecks are as you go
[13:56:23] <ssi> unless you're zeeshan
[13:56:31] <ssi> in which case you probably have a finite element analysis of the entire machine
[13:56:36] <Computer_barf> yeah this is working pretty awsome for me
[13:56:57] <ssi> and you've oversized your electrical service to be able to support a small army base
[13:57:15] <MrSunshine> haha
[13:57:23] <furrywolf> lol
[13:57:53] <ganzuul> right... that circuit breaker is the ultimate foolproofer.
[13:57:54] <furrywolf> unlike me, with a whole 30A @ 120V available. :P
[13:58:00] <ssi> but yes it's entirely possible to build a machine that's capable of throwing its own weight around enough that it'll walk right across the shop
[13:58:16] <ganzuul> furrywolf: stoves usually have 3+phase!
[13:58:32] <ganzuul> Electric ones at least.
[13:58:34] <zeeshan> yes i do things proper :-)
[13:58:39] <ssi> "proper"
[13:58:46] <furrywolf> my stove has a propane line. and nothing else. :P
[13:58:51] <ganzuul> aww
[13:58:51] <zeeshan> ssi i don't know why you bring this up all the time
[13:58:54] <zeeshan> yo ucan't even get 15hp
[13:58:56] <zeeshan> out of your motor :P
[13:58:58] <ganzuul> Well, some day I
[13:58:59] <zeeshan> you'll trip your breaker!
[13:59:00] <ssi> zeeshan: because it's fun to mess with you :)
[13:59:03] <zeeshan> FU!
[13:59:09] <ssi> I know full well I can't get 15hp
[13:59:15] <ganzuul> ll rip out my stove and install a huge metal working machine in its place
[13:59:25] <ssi> one day I'll have a shop with 3ph, and it'll work out
[13:59:29] <ganzuul> And fry bacon on the heatsink.
[13:59:35] <furrywolf> I got another inverter. I'll soon have 30A @ 240V available.
[13:59:43] <ssi> for now I'm fine with the risk of tripping the breaker if I want to take a 1" DOC with a 6" facemill in steel :D
[14:00:04] <ssi> ganzuul: stoves arent 3ph!
[14:00:59] <ganzuul> 400VA, 30 amps, iirc.
[14:01:08] <ssi> 240V single phase
[14:01:12] <ganzuul> hm
[14:01:15] <ssi> in the US, residential anyway
[14:01:21] <ssi> god knows what they do in the rest of the world :D
[14:01:26] <ssi> but I see no value in a 3ph stove
[14:01:27] <ganzuul> Well you have shitty stoves then!
[14:01:34] <ssi> maybe commercially
[14:02:19] <ganzuul> No... the building I live in was renovated in 1958. It has three+phase to the stove. As does every other kitchen afaik
[14:02:21] <furrywolf> gas is better anyway. :P
[14:02:59] <ssi> well that's bizarre
[14:03:08] <ssi> I guess you need to put your bridgeport in your kitchen
[14:03:09] <zeeshan> i have 3 phase into my house
[14:03:23] <zeeshan> my neighours mine and my oother neighbours wires
[14:03:39] * zeeshan waits for smart ass comments
[14:03:45] <ssi> ...
[14:04:02] <ganzuul> ssi: Exactly!
[14:04:13] <furrywolf> googling suggests 230V 50hz is normal in finland, and ganzuul is weird.
[14:04:30] <ssi> furrywolf: some more googling suggests that stoves over 8kw in finland are in fact 3ph
[14:04:33] <ssi> which is extra weird
[14:04:45] <furrywolf> that's a big stove.
[14:04:45] <ssi> although 400VA is NOT 8kw
[14:04:49] <ganzuul> Why else would they give every housewife in the country ultimate power??
[14:04:52] <furrywolf> he meant 400V
[14:04:55] <ssi> oh
[14:05:13] <ganzuul> It has been a while since I did the calculation...
[14:05:17] <ssi> 230V/phase is 408V 3ph isn't it?
[14:05:27] <zeeshan> wat
[14:05:27] <zeeshan> wat
[14:05:38] <furrywolf> no
[14:05:41] <zeeshan> no wonder you cant size a breaker right for your spindle
[14:05:42] <zeeshan> !
[14:05:52] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: made lumps yet? :P
[14:05:53] <ssi> zeeshan: nobody asked you
[14:05:58] <zeeshan> haha
[14:06:02] <zeeshan> but youre right ssi
[14:06:05] <ssi> I sized my breaker more right than you did
[14:06:08] <ssi> I sized it TOO SMALL FOR THE WIRE
[14:06:12] <zeeshan> ull measure like 230v from line to neutral
[14:06:16] <zeeshan> for 408v 3ph
[14:06:18] <ganzuul> You have 3 sines, and the triangle between them adds up to something like 400V constant if you wire a transformer right.
[14:06:21] <ssi> yeah that's excatly what I said
[14:06:29] <zeeshan> you asked it
[14:06:30] <zeeshan> not said it
[14:06:31] <ssi> 230V single phase is 408V 3 phase
[14:06:32] <zeeshan> so fu
[14:06:37] <ssi> yes I asked
[14:06:42] <ssi> and two people said no
[14:06:44] <ssi> you included
[14:06:47] <ssi> so fu more
[14:06:48] <zeeshan> cause im trolling u
[14:06:51] <zeeshan> Foo
[14:08:03] * furrywolf is hungry
[14:08:14] <zeeshan> i just completed my linked in profile
[14:08:15] <ssi> go cook yourself something on ganzuul's 12kw 3ph stove
[14:08:16] <ganzuul> 3·230 V·16 A = 11 040 W.
[14:08:17] <zeeshan> i have so much media on there
[14:08:22] <zeeshan> took forever
[14:08:47] <ganzuul> 11 040 watts =
[14:08:48] <ganzuul> 14.8048839 horsepower
[14:08:52] <furrywolf> linkedin should die. do not further their business.
[14:08:56] <zeeshan> ganzuul:
[14:09:00] <zeeshan> remember 746
[14:09:02] <furrywolf> now that I know you use linkedin, I will never email you, ever.
[14:09:04] <zeeshan> 746W in 1hp
[14:09:10] <ssi> furrywolf: ugh I know right
[14:09:10] <zeeshan> this is one number that should be in your head always
[14:09:13] <zeeshan> just like 25.4!
[14:09:25] <zeeshan> i used linked in as a virtual resume
[14:09:29] <zeeshan> on a regular resume you can't add media
[14:09:32] <ssi> zeeshan: only at sea level
[14:09:41] <zeeshan> wat
[14:09:43] <ssi> :D
[14:09:47] <zeeshan> haha
[14:10:13] <ssi> or should it be
[14:10:15] <ssi> "depends on the breed"
[14:10:30] <zeeshan> watt is dependent on the quarks involved in generating it
[14:10:35] <ssi> WATT
[14:10:48] <zeeshan> lol
[14:10:53] <furrywolf> so to decrease your horsepower, you'd need an odo?
[14:10:56] <zeeshan> im gonan troll my friends on this
[14:10:59] <zeeshan> by using big words they dont get
[14:11:03] <zeeshan> ill make them believe stupid stuff
[14:11:23] <zeeshan> to decrease your hp
[14:11:24] <ganzuul> furrywolf: and SCR would be advisable.
[14:11:29] <ssi> haha I had my friend pete convinced that if he had jumper cables attached to a battery he should clip the free ends together so the electrons wouldn't leak out
[14:11:29] <zeeshan> you need to drive a car with a rotary
[14:11:37] <ganzuul> Silicon Controller Rectifier.
[14:11:41] <ssi> not PetefromTn, different pete lol
[14:11:51] <zeeshan> ssi ROFL
[14:12:01] <zeeshan> musta got nice sparks
[14:12:04] <ssi> YESSSS
[14:12:20] <ssi> zeeshan: did you see that die filer kit?
[14:12:23] <ssi> I'm trying to order one
[14:12:26] <zeeshan> no
[14:12:27] <ssi> haven't gotten a response to my email yet
[14:12:32] <ssi> http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-18.html
[14:12:34] <furrywolf> ganzuul: no, no.... zeeshan says your watts are dependent on quarks... and to control your quark you need an odo.
[14:12:40] <Tom_itx> damn trolls...
[14:12:46] <ssi> and I'm gonna try to get him to send me this while he's at it
[14:12:46] <ssi> http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-17.html
[14:13:09] <ganzuul> I apparently don't know what an odo is.
[14:13:44] <Tom_itx> odometer
[14:13:49] <zeeshan> that looks nice
[14:13:53] <zeeshan> the filing kit
[14:13:54] <ssi> yeah
[14:13:57] <furrywolf> ganzuul: Odo is a character in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine television series, with a primary job duty of yelling at Quark, the owner of the local bar. The series sucked, but at least I picked that much up. :P
[14:13:58] <ganzuul> Tom_itx: that's what I though.
[14:13:59] <ssi> should be a fun project
[14:14:03] <ssi> I like working with cast iron
[14:14:04] <ssi> it cuts easy
[14:14:06] <ganzuul> oooh
[14:14:08] <ganzuul> hah
[14:14:21] <zeeshan> yea almost like butter
[14:14:34] <zeeshan> have you seen cast iron machining zoomed in?
[14:14:38] <ssi> zeeshan: the clock guy's filer is one of these kits
[14:14:39] <ssi> http://www.clickspringprojects.com/die-filer-or-bench-filing-machine.html
[14:14:59] <zeeshan> its like shattering like glass
[14:15:02] <ssi> yea
[14:15:13] <zeeshan> fancy
[14:15:16] <zeeshan> that guy does some sexy work
[14:15:21] <ssi> yeah it makes me kinda mad
[14:15:27] <ssi> lol
[14:15:38] <zeeshan> but i can tell hes being a ricer in tthose pics
[14:15:44] <zeeshan> that al table has no scratches on it
[14:15:47] <zeeshan> meaning it was never used :)
[14:15:48] <ssi> lol
[14:15:51] <ssi> I think the table is iron
[14:15:59] <zeeshan> wheres the rust
[14:16:14] * furrywolf pokes around ganzuul's kitchen for food to try on the 3ph stove
[14:16:18] <ssi> The basic kit for making the filing machine consists of four iron castings: a body casting; table casting;back plate casting; and yoke casting.
[14:16:27] <ssi> furrywolf: you really should stay out of everyone's kitchens!
[14:16:40] <ganzuul> furrywolf: 15hp
[14:16:45] <ssi> zeeshan: he may have made an aluminum table for it
[14:16:47] <ssi> but I can't imagine why
[14:16:54] <Tom_itx> good repurpose of a sherline spindle motor
[14:17:02] <furrywolf> ssi: where else am I going to find food?
[14:17:07] <Tom_itx> horrible idea using their belts
[14:17:08] <ssi> your own kitchen?
[14:17:12] <ssi> restaurant?
[14:17:25] <ssi> Tom_itx: I think I have a 1/4hp vfd lying around
[14:17:33] <ssi> might try to find a little 1/4hp 3ph motor for it
[14:17:38] <ssi> variable speed die filer ftwwwww
[14:17:44] <Tom_itx> reverse?
[14:17:54] <ssi> sure why not
[14:17:57] <Tom_itx> send it to me
[14:18:00] <furrywolf> not going to find much left in my kitchen, and restaurants are expensive.
[14:18:04] <ssi> I Think normally you want these to cut on the downstroke
[14:18:11] <ssi> furrywolf: perhaps you need a job!
[14:18:20] * furrywolf has one!
[14:18:34] <furrywolf> restaurants are expensive unless you're rich.
[14:18:37] <ssi> do you go to it?
[14:18:40] <ssi> you're always here!
[14:18:47] <zeeshan> i really hope this job ive applied to
[14:18:48] <zeeshan> pays good money
[14:18:55] <archivist> motor on my filing machine is a Hoover, rare beasts these days
[14:18:56] <zeeshan> so stressed out
[14:18:57] <zeeshan> ;/
[14:19:01] <Tom_itx> why wouldn't you?
[14:19:07] <ganzuul> furrywolf: That really depends on the restaurant.
[14:19:15] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: not the lump
[14:19:17] <furrywolf> ssi: I went to work around five hours ago.
[14:19:17] <zeeshan> a real full time job
[14:19:24] <ssi> me too
[14:19:24] <furrywolf> I just got back.
[14:19:27] <ssi> still there
[14:19:33] <Tom_itx> zeeshan you wouldn't say: i really hope this job i applied to sucks
[14:19:41] <ssi> lol
[14:19:49] <Tom_itx> well you might...
[14:19:51] <zeeshan> job is awesome
[14:19:54] <zeeshan> i worked there for a coop
[14:20:05] <ssi> a chicken coop?
[14:20:18] <furrywolf> ssi: I have a delivery route from around 7am to around noon.
[14:20:29] <ssi> oic
[14:20:39] <furrywolf> I've decided coop must mean the same thing as "internship" does to the rest of the world.
[14:20:43] <Tom_itx> what do you deliver?
[14:20:45] <Tom_itx> drugs?
[14:20:56] <ssi> nah if he delivered drugs he'd have money for food
[14:21:13] <ssi> although there are legit weed delivery places in CA now, and they probably don't pay their drivers shit
[14:21:31] * furrywolf does not deliver weed
[14:21:52] <ssi> well that was an interestingly couched statement :D
[14:22:20] <furrywolf> I deliver totes to stores... some of them go to the pharmacy. I don't read the manifests. :P
[14:22:28] <ssi> hahahaha
[14:24:01] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't either
[14:24:12] <Tom_itx> especially if i were delivering for the mob
[14:24:39] <furrywolf> lol
[14:25:06] <furrywolf> I do have enough money for food right now... it's more of an energy and back functionality issue.
[14:25:20] <furrywolf> after delivering heavy totes with a bad back, I'm too sore to move.
[14:25:32] <furrywolf> and shopping is moving
[14:25:36] <ssi> furrywolf: surely there's another form of delivery which will have a person bring you food
[14:25:56] <archivist> train yourself to pick up food on the way back from work
[14:26:09] <ssi> if nothing else, you could probably advertise some carebears for sale on craigslist and someone will likely show up with snacks
[14:26:35] <furrywolf> archivist: the way back from work doesn't pass grocery stores. :)
[14:26:49] <archivist> detour
[14:26:52] <furrywolf> and that still requires walking, and lifting things, etc.
[14:27:02] <furrywolf> and I just want to sit down and not move.
[14:27:13] <archivist> get a maid then
[14:27:36] <furrywolf> they're very expensive. especially naughty ones.
[14:28:13] <furrywolf> hrmm, I have some refrigerated quiche that's about six months past its expiration date... probably still good...
[14:31:53] <ssi> ok so this is hilarious
[14:32:21] <ssi> I was trying to find a link to the story about which my previous joke was made, in case anyone asked about it (instead of it sailing over everyone's head like it appeard to)
[14:32:28] <ssi> so I googled "carebear accidental orgy"
[14:32:37] <ssi> the first, fourth, and fifth results were the story I was looking for
[14:32:47] <_methods> i'm sure that search got you on a list somewhere lol
[14:32:48] <ssi> the sixth result is a different story that was written by a girl I went to highschool with
[14:32:51] <ssi> small effin world
[14:33:01] <ssi> _methods: dude I'm on so many lists I don't even care anymore
[14:33:05] <_methods> hahah
[14:33:28] * furrywolf isn't going to google that to see what the hell ssi is talking about
[14:33:37] <ssi> haha it's not thah bad
[14:33:37] <_methods> care bear orgy homebrew tactical nuke
[14:33:48] <ssi> http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-to-throw-an-insane-orgy-using-craigslist/
[14:33:54] <renesis> watusay
[14:35:29] <ganzuul> furrywolf: For people who have those mechanical health problems, I always recommend leaving milk and gluten from your diet. Had a hell of an impact on me.
[14:35:56] <furrywolf> ganzuul: my suggestion would be to not drive on the same roads as senile idiots with cellphones who don't notice when traffic stops.
[14:36:08] <cradek> placebo effect is very strong
[14:36:12] <furrywolf> because one of those, about two months ago, is why my back doesn't work.
[14:36:23] <ganzuul> furrywolf: that too is an option. Did they have insurance?
[14:36:55] <furrywolf> yes
[14:37:28] <ganzuul> Doesn't that make you a millionaire in American?
[14:38:15] <furrywolf> no
[14:38:29] <furrywolf> owning an insurance company is how you become a millionaire.
[14:38:34] <furrywolf> not trying to get money from one.
[14:42:17] <furrywolf> ... as a furry, I suspect that article is what is called "humor", in that someone apparantly thought it would be funny to write it.
[14:43:02] <furrywolf> and not, for example, having anything to do with actual events. lol
[14:48:20] <ssi> probably!
[14:49:06] <ssi> but I still think it's a valid tactic to try to get someone to bring you food :P
[14:59:54] <XXCoder> those type of article tend to be humor and not real yeah
[15:03:46] * furrywolf writes an article about how "humor" "journalists" are perverts who assault people
[15:04:09] <XXCoder> go for it
[15:04:11] <XXCoder> make it funny
[15:04:22] <XXCoder> you might earn good money from that cracked article
[15:06:07] <furrywolf> people only find it funny because it talks about furries. if it was exactly the same but the people who showed up were, say, black people, there's be protests and lawsuits.
[15:06:22] <ssi> I'd think it was funny if it was black people
[15:07:06] <ssi> i think people of all races, genders, and fetishes need to get the fuck over themselves :D
[15:07:09] <zeeshan> how do job agencies get their money
[15:07:14] <ssi> zeeshan: they get a cut
[15:07:16] <zeeshan> for full time pwork?
[15:07:21] <zeeshan> i understand for labor work they get a cut
[15:07:25] <zeeshan> but for a permanent position
[15:07:30] <zeeshan> do they get a big lump sum or something?
[15:07:35] <ssi> depends on the contract
[15:07:49] <ssi> the vendors we use, we tend to hire people on 6 month contracts at an hourly rate
[15:08:05] <zeeshan> what about a salaried position
[15:08:18] * furrywolf applies for zee's job
[15:08:19] <ssi> I think when they hired me, I got $67/hr from the headhunter, but the company was paying the headhunter $95/hr
[15:08:29] <ssi> and then when they hired me full time, the headhunter got like a $20k lump
[15:08:37] <zeeshan> holy :P
[15:08:41] <zeeshan> thats a big lump
[15:08:44] <ssi> yeah it is
[15:08:58] <ssi> I don't think they deserve it
[15:08:58] <XXCoder> 67 a hour dang
[15:09:03] <ssi> most of the tech recruiters are morons
[15:09:09] <zeeshan> do you think its reasonable
[15:09:15] <zeeshan> to expect around 35/hr
[15:09:21] <zeeshan> when during my coop positions i was around 25
[15:09:27] <zeeshan> for full time work
[15:09:32] <zeeshan> ive got quite a bit of experience
[15:09:39] <ssi> 35CAD?
[15:09:40] <zeeshan> i really need to work for someone so i can get my license
[15:09:41] <furrywolf> your "co op" pays quite a bit more than I've ever made.
[15:09:41] <zeeshan> yes
[15:09:50] <zeeshan> furrywolf: benefits of school
[15:09:50] <zeeshan> :P
[15:10:10] <ssi> furrywolf: 25CAD is $18.77USD
[15:10:22] <ssi> it's decent money for an internship but hardly groundbreaking :P
[15:10:29] <zeeshan> exactly
[15:10:42] <ssi> 35CAD/hr for your education and experience isn't unreasonable
[15:10:43] <furrywolf> ... $19/hr would be a GOOD job here.
[15:10:45] <ssi> you finish your MS yet?
[15:10:48] <zeeshan> 8 months
[15:11:12] <ssi> might expect a little less with a bump when you're done
[15:11:12] <ssi> I dunno
[15:11:16] <zeeshan> i wanna finish it part time
[15:11:18] <ssi> I don't know nothin bout no fancy educations
[15:11:26] <furrywolf> what is your new job, and can I do it? :P
[15:11:29] <zeeshan> i can't stand being in school anymore
[15:12:01] <JT-Shop> zlog
[15:12:15] <ssi> zeeshan: I'm looking at brass prices
[15:12:20] <zeeshan> expensive
[15:12:21] <zeeshan> :)
[15:12:21] <ssi> curious how much money dude has tied up in that clock
[15:12:27] <zeeshan> a lot prolly
[15:12:29] <ssi> 12x12" 3/16" sheet is $115
[15:12:39] <ssi> I sent those vids to my cousin
[15:12:50] <furrywolf> all my brass comes from the local scrapyard at $2/lb. heh.
[15:12:50] <ssi> he wants to learn to do machine work, and I'm trying to give him some ideas about how this stuff works
[15:12:58] <ssi> and he said "man I was just thinking I needed a clock"
[15:13:12] <ssi> I'm like.... that clock is gonna cost $1000 to make even assuming you have the tools and skill you need
[15:13:30] <ssi> furrywolf: I haven't been able to find a scrapyard worth a shit :(
[15:13:41] <ssi> or really even any decent metals suppliers
[15:13:51] <ssi> I get metal from metal supermarket (expensive) and mcmaster (REALLY expensive)
[15:14:07] <furrywolf> the one here is good, but small. and the amount of fun stuff has declined along with the decline of having any industry around here.
[15:14:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, nope
[15:14:15] <XXCoder> there should be scrapyards around here but havent looked lol (I doubt I will need much metal, being that my router cant cut em)
[15:15:25] <furrywolf> now that there's no industry, there's no one scrapping fun industrial things.
[15:15:31] <ssi> atlanta doesn't have enough of that kind of industry
[15:15:46] <ssi> our industry is strip clubs and cocacola and film, nowadays
[15:15:53] <ssi> oh and airlines
[15:16:29] <furrywolf> none of that here either. heh.
[15:16:39] <furrywolf> I think there's one strip club a couple towns over. never been there.
[15:16:55] <ssi> don't bother
[15:17:02] <ssi> there's no good strip clubs west of the mississippi
[15:17:04] <furrywolf> no film, only cocacola is a distributor to stores, and we have one airline with one plane with one flight to a larger airport.
[15:17:07] <ssi> not sure why that is, but it's true :P
[15:17:25] * furrywolf has never been to a strip club, so has no idea where has good ones
[15:18:23] <SpeedEvil> Online!
[15:18:24] <ssi> I want to go to kansas and go to the surplus stores out there
[15:18:48] <ssi> _methods: why don't you come down and we'll fly to kansas and spend all our money
[15:18:51] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I don't like porn either. heh.
[15:18:57] <SpeedEvil> I saw a girl blowing glass online.
[15:18:59] <_methods> ?
[15:19:01] <_methods> sure
[15:19:03] <_methods> kansas?
[15:19:06] <ssi> yeahhh
[15:19:07] <ssi> wichita
[15:19:12] <_methods> wtf is happening there?
[15:19:16] <SpeedEvil> I want to learn lampworking
[15:19:19] <furrywolf> bbl, need to poke at cars
[15:19:20] <ssi> https://www.yardstore.com
[15:19:24] <ssi> I dunno how many of the others are still open
[15:19:41] <XXCoder> lol used to have hobby building or rebuilding lamps
[15:19:56] <ssi> but those places are full up with surplus metals and tooling from boeing and all the wichita based mfgs
[15:20:21] <_methods> yeah man my neighbor was working for vought/alenia before boeing took over
[15:20:31] <ssi> http://www.theyardwichita.com
[15:20:32] <_methods> and he came over to my house with a box of "drill bits"
[15:20:32] <XXCoder> man I miss my custom dual lights lamp - two plugs so alarm can use bright light to wake me up and easy to access switch for dim light
[15:20:35] <PetefromTn_> wichita is NOT high on my list of places to visit..
[15:20:47] <_methods> he says hey man they throw away all these drill bits that we draw and don't use
[15:20:51] <_methods> do you want them
[15:20:56] <ssi> PetefromTn_: you just gotta know what to look for :)
[15:21:04] <PetefromTn_> corn?
[15:21:08] <_methods> so he shows up with these boxes full of csnks and drill bits
[15:21:11] <ssi> _methods: dang nice
[15:21:21] <_methods> ALL CARBIDE
[15:21:25] <ssi> I've bought some big lots of used tooling at some of the airshows
[15:21:27] <XXCoder> whooo
[15:21:30] <_methods> he had about 75 lbs of carbide
[15:21:32] <ssi> boeing uses these quickchange shank drill bits that I love
[15:21:38] <ssi> I have hundreds of them
[15:21:40] <furrywolf> full boxes of carbide are very heavy.
[15:21:42] <_methods> he was just going to give them to me
[15:21:43] <ssi> all small though, .250 and under
[15:21:49] <_methods> and i was like man i can't take that
[15:21:50] <XXCoder> _methods: thats expensive. care to guess what value was?
[15:21:55] <_methods> do you know how much this is worth
[15:22:04] <ssi> heh I'd have taken it in a heart beat
[15:22:08] <_methods> whatever going carbide rate is
[15:22:20] <_methods> or was
[15:22:25] <furrywolf> ssi: the ones with a ~1/4" shank with six ball indents a bit down from the top?
[15:22:31] <ssi> furrywolf: thems the ones
[15:22:36] <ssi> I love them
[15:22:37] <SpeedEvil> _methods: :)
[15:22:41] <_methods> i did take about 30 or so bits
[15:22:45] <furrywolf> ssi: I got a box of them off ebay. excellent bits, but break easily. :)
[15:22:46] <XXCoder> _methods: what was value when it was offered to you
[15:22:48] <_methods> and about 20 csnks
[15:22:53] <_methods> i can't remember
[15:22:58] <_methods> it was about 7 years ago
[15:23:02] <ssi> furrywolf: most of them have the double-flute profile
[15:23:04] <_methods> whenever boeing bought out vought
[15:23:06] <ssi> self-reaming core drills
[15:23:08] <ssi> they're great
[15:23:12] <ssi> tehy do break easy tho
[15:23:19] <ssi> they're designed for thin aluminum sheetmetal
[15:23:22] <_methods> he said they were just throwin it all in the trash cans
[15:23:35] <furrywolf> I got some up to about 3/8 in the lot I got.
[15:23:41] <furrywolf> all odd decimal sizes, all over the place.
[15:23:46] <ssi> yeah
[15:23:58] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9xRHcsIQAE6f_C.jpg:large
[15:24:02] <ssi> I got that from the tool crib at delta
[15:24:12] <ssi> that's not quickchange, it's 1/4-20 threaded for my angle drill
[15:24:15] <_methods> yeah he had a bunch of those
[15:24:17] <ssi> .250x.375 core drill
[15:24:17] <_methods> step drills
[15:24:31] <XXCoder> trying to figure what microstop is for lol
[15:24:35] <furrywolf> bbl
[15:24:37] <XXCoder> (at that yard site)
[15:24:41] <ssi> I needed it to open up these holes for bushings
[15:24:42] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9xRGzGIAAAfqhR.jpg:large
[15:24:44] <_methods> for an adjustable jig/fixutre
[15:24:44] <ssi> inside the rib
[15:24:49] <ssi> XXCoder: they're for countersinks
[15:24:53] <XXCoder> ah
[15:24:54] <_methods> those stops are awesome
[15:24:59] <ssi> so you can adjust the depth of the countersink very precisely
[15:25:02] <ssi> I have about ten of them
[15:25:51] <ssi> XXCoder: http://www.krnet.org/kronline/jan2003/Jan2003_files/image005.jpg
[15:25:52] <XXCoder> noga pencil deburr any good?
[15:26:03] <_methods> noga everything is good
[15:26:04] <XXCoder> nice
[15:26:19] <_methods> except their price lol
[15:26:21] <XXCoder> that site has 13 bucks for that
[15:28:14] <ssi> I need to get a hand squeezer
[15:28:21] <XXCoder> dogleg deburr tool used that before, surpising easy to use.
[15:28:28] <ssi> http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,4748.html
[15:50:01] <Rab> Wish I could find some of those aircraft countersinks in 82-degree, I think they're almost exclusively 100-degree though.
[15:50:28] <XXCoder> wonder if you can make em
[15:51:18] <jthornton> Tom_itx, give this a test drive http://gnipsel.com/expand.html
[15:51:55] <PetefromTn_> I have some of those MA Ford countersinks one is 82 degree and the other is 90 degree....they are excellent both in the machine and in hand tools
[15:58:50] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo picked up several more orders today for Custom Rifle scope rails!!
[16:00:05] <MrSunshine> yeey, soon i have a drawing thingie for the computer =) realy hope it works well with sculpting in software =)
[16:39:36] <zeeshan> nice pete
[16:40:19] <Deejay> gn8
[16:43:25] <SpeedEvil> http://i.imgur.com/TmjtviY.gifv on the topic of axes.
[16:44:07] <PetefromTn_> anyone feel like helping my clean out my fire pit in the back yard.... way too many years of ashe and the occasional tin can in there and it is taking WAY too long hehe
[16:51:43] <PetefromTn_> nobody....heh not surprised ;)
[16:52:02] <malcom2073> I'll help!
[16:52:04] <malcom2073> Pay airfare :P
[16:52:12] <PetefromTn_> REALLY!!
[16:52:41] <PetefromTn_> Oh wait...I can't afford to fly anywhere myself let alone fly you here... I do know someone with a plane tho!! ;)
[16:53:02] <malcom2073> As do I! He could come on by pick me up, and then both of us could come help you!
[16:53:08] <malcom2073> ssi: ping!
[16:53:59] <PetefromTn_> OOh that is a great idea!!
[16:54:19] <PetefromTn_> I'll even provide the Smores after we are done!!
[16:57:56] <zeeshan> man
[17:38:45] <Tom_itx> smores... rather have steak
[17:40:30] <PetefromTn_> sorry man I have it about 3/4 emptied now... I will eat the steaks myself ;)
[17:43:14] <Tom_itx> guess i should have waited a bit longer...
[17:43:30] <PetefromTn_> what for?
[17:43:40] <Tom_itx> so you -were- done
[17:44:23] <Tom_itx> i always love it when someone shows up just as the job's completed
[17:44:52] <PetefromTn_> I would be done but I keep having to fish out all the little bits of junk and broken brick from the ash... It's a dirty shitty job I tell ya. But it will be worth it when I am all done and sitting around a nice warm fire in the backyard with the kids eating marshmallows ;)
[17:45:26] <Tom_itx> i need to make a new lid for my fire pit
[17:47:56] <PetefromTn_> what do you need a lid for? Mine is just a big circle of brick with fire in the middle LOL
[18:42:27] <zeeshan> man this stock market stuff is going to hurt is soon
[18:42:29] <zeeshan> i can just feel it
[18:44:30] <Tom_itx> got too many investments?
[18:44:35] <zeeshan> no
[18:44:40] <zeeshan> but it's going to affect everyone
[18:44:42] <zeeshan> soon enough
[18:44:51] <zeeshan> a lot of companies lost billions in the market crash
[18:44:54] <zeeshan> from today and yesterday
[18:45:33] <Wolf_> good time to buy?
[18:45:38] <Tom_itx> maybe the govt will bail them out too
[18:45:41] <Tom_itx> like it did before
[18:45:46] <zeeshan> ??
[18:45:50] <zeeshan> china didnt bail
[18:45:55] <zeeshan> this is the chinese market crashing
[18:46:02] <Tom_itx> oh
[18:46:05] <zeeshan> and affecting the world markets
[18:46:08] <Tom_itx> not watching it
[18:46:09] <zeeshan> they dropped the interest rate today
[18:46:12] <zeeshan> but it crashed even more
[18:46:12] <zeeshan> lol
[18:46:27] <Tom_itx> maybe that's good for US
[18:46:33] <zeeshan> no
[18:46:40] <zeeshan> because since most of the usa buys their shit from china
[18:46:48] <Wolf_> not really good….
[18:46:49] <zeeshan> it's going to hurt.
[18:46:59] <zeeshan> good bye to cheap vernier calipers!
[18:47:20] <Wolf_> even the usa, made in shit has china junk inside
[18:47:55] <zeeshan> you have the world's second largest economy crashing
[18:48:04] <zeeshan> which is directly connected with the world's largest economy
[18:48:08] <zeeshan> so it's going to be felt by everyone
[18:48:19] <zeeshan> its just a matter of time
[18:53:51] <Praesmeodymium> well shit time to cash out my pension plan and get the rest of the goodies I want while they are still affordable
[19:00:16] <malcom2073> Yep
[19:56:20] <os1r1s> zeeshan: We are still above the value from Oct 13 and similar to dips from Aug 14 and Oct 14.
[20:07:13] <Wolf_Mill> doing this 4 jaw lathe work, I'm finding my measurement gear lacking...
[20:12:54] <Tom_itx> stick with pencil marks on it?
[20:13:19] <malcom2073> Switch from wooden to mechanical pencil, double the precision
[20:15:09] <Wolf_Mill> lol naa, only have a crappy mag base holder with the solid rod and sliding arm and a quill mount indicator holder...
[20:18:10] <Wolf_Mill> ghetto riggin http://i.imgur.com/22o7rlm.jpg
[20:20:37] <PetefromTn_> whats wrong with that?
[20:21:31] <Wolf_Mill> well, it does work, did the other side of that block fighting with the stupid dovetail adapter on that dial
[20:21:40] <Tom_itx> the wall behind the lathe is too clean for one
[20:22:30] <Wolf_Mill> Tom_itx: old bench was lower, you cant see the oil+swarf splatter
[20:22:45] <PetefromTn_> is that a CNC mini lathe?
[20:23:01] <Tom_itx> i see crank handles
[20:23:02] <Wolf_Mill> no, full manual
[20:23:06] <Wolf_Mill> for now
[20:23:38] <Wolf_Mill> thinking about adding some power feeds to it tho
[20:25:03] <malcom2073> Power feed is nice
[20:25:14] <malcom2073> Even jsut a variable speed DC motor would be beneficial
[20:28:25] <Wolf_Mill> cheap surplus 200oz-in stepper, $10 driver and a arduino + some knobs, buttons and a lcd? :D
[20:40:25] <Wolf_Mill> acetal gib shims seem to be working out too
[20:49:20] <SpeedEvil> acetal Gibb - the lesser known Beegee.
[21:33:07] <skunkworks> love the irc in the background
[21:34:15] <Wolf_Mill> =)
[21:34:41] <Wolf_Mill> whole bench http://i.imgur.com/Eh6BMmG.jpg
[21:36:07] <malcom2073> Nice
[21:38:14] <Wolf_Mill> crap... i dont have a 8mm drill bit
[21:40:18] <Tom_itx> 5/16 is .0025 under
[21:40:56] <Tom_itx> letter O is .001 over
[21:41:04] <Wolf_Mill> derp... 8mm shaft, 12mm od on the bearing
[21:44:26] <Wolf_Mill> which seems to be worse lol
[21:45:34] <sector_0> hey guys
[21:46:03] <sector_0> can someone tell me if this is simply a moving platform version of a scara https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6POrjVXgsk
[21:58:19] <Wolf_Mill> heh, I shouldstop and think more before doing, forgot that my good boaring bar is a 3/8" head...
[22:25:42] <sector_0> anyone?
[22:31:28] <Wolf_Mill> no clue here
[22:33:02] <Wolf_Mill> one down http://i.imgur.com/NdXBYOT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YaiPZ9j.jpg and my $7 amazon handwheel score http://i.imgur.com/NLB7yPP.jpg
[22:33:21] <pcw_home> sure look likes SCARA to me
[22:33:47] <pcw_home> looks like
[22:50:08] <LatheBuilderShop> pcw_home, downloaded the updated sserial.zip. Same error as yesterday, plus a new one.
[22:50:40] <LatheBuilderShop> mkdir: cannot create directory '/lib/firmware/hm2/sserial': File exists
[22:51:06] <LatheBuilderShop> and mv: cannot stat `*.BIN': No such file or directory.
[22:51:49] <LatheBuilderShop> cleared cache on the browser, made sure old copy was deleted first. Folder structure changed so I know is a new version
[22:55:36] <furrywolf> anyone here good at reading alternator 'scope traces, or otherwise diagnosing weird alternator problems?
[22:55:57] <LatheBuilderShop> I see what you mean about debian having sharp edges. Particularly wrt file move permissions for manual operations
[23:00:19] <pcw_home> you need root permissions to write to /lib/firmware thats expected
[23:01:02] <pcw_home> let me change the mv to cp so if something goes wrong you dont lose the files
[23:02:00] <LatheBuilderShop> i thought the script was more complicated until i opened it...doing it manually but my shell skills are rusty
[23:02:49] <pcw_home> the .BIN files are there if i look at the archive
[23:03:07] <LatheBuilderShop> just thought i'd give a shout back to help keep you from a deluge of support requests. I upgraded my experimental box to master release a few days ago, it was what prompted me to do the updates
[23:03:50] <pcw_home> if you download sserial.zip are the .BIN files there?
[23:04:15] <pcw_home> (in utils/linuxcnc I mean)
[23:05:04] <LatheBuilderShop> pcw_home, not in the copy i downloaded ~1/2 hour ago
[23:05:40] <pcw_home> i just did it and the files are there
[23:06:15] <furrywolf> mv delete them?
[23:06:56] <pcw_home> http://www.mesanet.com/software/parallel/sserial.zip
[23:06:57] <pcw_home> presumably only if successful
[23:07:22] <pcw_home> but I will change to cp
[23:07:30] <LatheBuilderShop> local cached copy perhaps? I'll download again. Ahhh! i was getting it from the freeby... link from days ago
[23:07:35] <furrywolf> yes, but that might be why LatheBuilderShop isn't seeing them. :)
[23:16:32] <LatheBuilderShop> ok that did it. The link i was downloading it from was the one from here a day or two ago: http://freeby.mesanet.com/software/parallel/sserial.zip
[23:16:52] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime.
[23:17:31] <LatheBuilderShop> the one you just gave worked. the question of the hour then is: do i leave the card powered up for the jumper move?
[23:18:07] <LatheBuilderShop> my educated guess is no, but the language in the terminal echo suggests doing it with the power on is desirable?
[23:18:23] <pcw_home> you can but power needs to be cycled for the jumper to be read
[23:18:34] <LatheBuilderShop> got it. doing it now
[23:23:24] <sector_0> pcw_home, me?
[23:25:27] <LatheBuilderShop> pcw_home, update successful. Thanks!
[23:26:04] <zeeshan> pcw_home: hi
[23:26:30] <zeeshan> if my plasma cutter has an overcurrent voltage of 200V
[23:26:36] <zeeshan> should i be ordering the thcad-300 ?
[23:26:40] <zeeshan> (which is out of stock! :( )
[23:28:11] <Wolf_Mill> need to turn a part but didnt want to mess with the setup in the 4jaw, what to do? Break out the spare lathe http://i.imgur.com/WFAo5Ye.jpg
[23:29:03] <zeeshan> BALLS
[23:29:09] <zeeshan> take a pic now!
[23:29:33] <zeeshan> whats wrong with 4 jaw
[23:30:06] <zeeshan> i hope youre using that file on your table with a handle :P
[23:30:36] <Wolf_Mill> didnt want to take the part out of it, needed to turn a small adapter for my dial indicator
[23:32:40] <pcw_home> the thcad300 is is you have no divider (and there are some in stock, I'll update the store)
[23:35:15] <pcw_home> if your plasma power supply has a divider the thcad10 is what you want
[23:38:20] <Wolf_Mill> zeeshan: one down http://i.imgur.com/NdXBYOT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YaiPZ9j.jpg and my $7 amazon handwheel score http://i.imgur.com/NLB7yPP.jpg
[23:41:27] <zeeshan> it can do both raw voltage
[23:41:34] <zeeshan> 1/16 voltage and 1/50
[23:42:15] <pcw_home> 200 V is the max raw output voltage?
[23:44:58] <zeeshan> i thinkso
[23:45:04] <zeeshan> im looking at spec sheet
[23:45:07] <zeeshan> all it tells me is OCV
[23:45:28] <zeeshan> Wolf_Mill: looks good :)
[23:45:36] <fenn> it's my lathe!!! http://uphill.org.uk/pages/ot/Fenn/Fenn_1.htm
[23:46:00] <zeeshan> pcw_home: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/sites/everlastgenerators/files/downloads/PowerPlasma%2050.pdf
[23:46:10] <zeeshan> page 10
[23:46:25] <LatheBuilderShop> zeshan is there another number with that? ocv usually means open circuit voltage, not zero cv
[23:46:39] <fenn> it's got a pretty cool headstock with worm gearing and dividing head built into the step pulley, i was thinking about doing that on my first lathe
[23:46:58] <zeeshan> LatheBuilder2: i figured it was some max voltaGE :P
[23:47:08] <LatheBuilderShop> =)
[23:47:21] <zeeshan> i do see 50A @ 100V
[23:47:30] <zeeshan> as "maximum rated output"
[23:49:15] <LatheBuilderShop> that is what it will do under load. unloaded, welders and plasma cutters drift higher
[23:49:29] <zeeshan> yea so i guess i need to plan for 200V? :P
[23:49:32] <zeeshan> for thc
[23:55:10] <LatheBuilderShop> bbl
[23:57:33] <ve7it> pcw_home, any suggestions for a 3ph brushless drive... motor is rated 100vac/5.8A Y (300w motor)