#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-23

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[00:00:15] <furrywolf> XXCoder: http://g01.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1vi_XHFXXXXc5aXXXq6xXFXXXx/QMWG700-HPHT-Synthetic-Diamond-Equipment-of-Luoyang.jpg
[00:00:20] <renesis> hid still kicks everything elses ass
[00:00:29] <zeeshan> wow furry
[00:00:31] <zeeshan> thqt looks so cool
[00:00:40] <fenn> the bulbs are like $10 each? and on ebay you can get bare emitters for $0.70 each?
[00:00:43] <renesis> hps bulbs are way more efficient than led and flouro
[00:01:00] <furrywolf> HID also takes 5-10 minutes to warm up, and has limited lifespan, often reaching it with an explosion.
[00:01:02] <zeeshan> fenn: 10 dollars for a complete bulb that i dont have to f around with
[00:01:04] <zeeshan> is worth it to me
[00:01:08] <furrywolf> HPS is fucking yellow and useless.
[00:01:10] <zeeshan> has a b uilt in power supply etc
[00:01:11] <furrywolf> unless you're growing pot.
[00:01:18] <fenn> sure of course, but i'm just wondering what the price breakdown is
[00:01:18] <renesis> its light
[00:01:27] <zeeshan> prolly uses a bunch of those leds
[00:01:38] <zeeshan> and heat sink and conversion from ac to dc?
[00:01:45] <XXCoder> furrywolf: wow that is cool
[00:02:04] <renesis> tho lots of places in los angeles switching from sodium to LED lighting is pretty awesome
[00:02:09] <zeeshan> ok i need to go
[00:02:12] <renesis> like, omg colors at night
[00:02:25] <furrywolf> also, I think modern LEDs are more efficient than HID.
[00:02:27] <renesis> but yeah, they burn out
[00:02:38] <renesis> i dont think so
[00:03:03] <furrywolf> the latest cheapo LED lamps I got from costco have a complete efficiency rating of over 100lm/w, and that's including ballast, optic losses, etc.
[00:03:08] <renesis> if it was, people would be growing pot with LEDs, it wouldnt be controversial tech
[00:03:20] <furrywolf> renesis: people here ARE growing pot with LEDs.
[00:03:21] <XXCoder> less effectient but WAAY less replacements?
[00:03:28] <renesis> furrywolf: i said everyone
[00:03:29] <XXCoder> dunno if money point checks out lol
[00:03:44] <renesis> the idea with LEDs and pot is you just give them the exact spectrum they need
[00:03:46] <renesis> saving power
[00:04:02] <renesis> sodium bulbs put out a lot of green light the plants dont even see
[00:04:08] <fenn> i'd rather have sodium bulbs at night on streetlamps; blue light messes with your circadian rhythm
[00:04:08] <furrywolf> the initial price is a lot higher.
[00:04:18] <furrywolf> I'd rather not have streetlamps.
[00:04:27] <renesis> but hps is something like 5-10 more efficient, consistently
[00:04:46] <renesis> versus expensive LEDs
[00:05:07] <furrywolf> led is more comparable to MH/HID than HPS.
[00:05:19] <furrywolf> white LEDs, that is.
[00:05:22] <renesis> mh and hps are both hid
[00:05:42] <renesis> and white leds put out a lot of yellow that the plants wont use much of
[00:05:57] <renesis> white + deep red and you have a usable spectrum
[00:05:58] <fenn> there are leds tuned to plant frequencies
[00:06:14] <XXCoder> fenn: yeah so many devices use slight blue leds.
[00:06:28] <furrywolf> actually, checking the numbers, LEDs are substantially more efficient than HPS now. HPS is 87lm/w, not including ballast, while modern cheapo LED lamps are over 100lm/w including ballast.
[00:06:28] <XXCoder> fenn: I wish I can change led color on my kindle to suit time of day
[00:06:36] <renesis> sure but its debatable what those frequencies are and when and you have to be very good at matching to be better than hps
[00:06:57] <renesis> anyway, ive grown weed with LEDs, its drama, hps works so well shit gets to big and becomes a problem
[00:07:18] <furrywolf> and that's for white leds, the mix of red, blue, etc leds on led grow lights should be more efficient for plant purposes.
[00:07:22] <renesis> but its not more effcient light
[00:07:32] <renesis> its more efficient absorption
[00:07:34] <fenn> the usda lab nearby has this crazy purple pink glow coming out of all the greenhouses so presumably they figured out something more efficient than standard lighting
[00:07:41] <XXCoder> furrywolf: can always develop exact frequence
[00:07:59] <renesis> what they need to do is make a multi element bulb tuned for plants
[00:08:14] <XXCoder> fenn: the plants should be dark purple to be most effecient for our nearest star
[00:08:20] <renesis> like, one blue, two red, a white emitter on one element
[00:08:25] <XXCoder> but something happened and most of those was wiped out
[00:08:35] <furrywolf> XXCoder: there's no exact frequency for plants, especially since you often want to change it to make the plants think it's a different season.
[00:08:41] <fenn> dude what if we're all aliens duude *puffs on purple pot*
[00:08:49] <XXCoder> the leftover light, the refected light off those are green and those - green is best color
[00:08:55] <renesis> and there are a few known frequencies for photosynthesis
[00:09:16] <furrywolf> ... is that why purple strains are becoming increasingly popular? they absorb light better? :P
[00:09:16] <XXCoder> er refected purple light that is
[00:09:24] <renesis> theres basically two red freqs and two blue freqs
[00:10:05] <renesis> but other shit response to light may do better with white LED versus blue, because wide band
[00:10:21] <XXCoder> furrywolf: purple IS inverse of sun color after all lol
[00:10:30] <furrywolf> in any case, costco led lamps put out 1600lm off 15W, and that's including the ballast and all other losses.
[00:10:37] <furrywolf> and they cost $12.
[00:10:58] <fenn> furrywolf: do you use lights designed to plug into a wall?
[00:11:14] <fenn> or run them straight off DC
[00:11:17] <renesis> 110lm/w is what cree where all exited about years ago so its prob pretty common now
[00:12:05] <fenn> renesis: is that the efficiency of fluorescents?
[00:12:21] <furrywolf> fenn: AC. DC is not a useful idea. the cost of running a second wiring system (with 10 times heavier wire), dc circuit protection, DC lights and appliances, etc, far, far exceeds the cost of a suitable inverter and oversizing the system 10% to compensate for its losses.
[00:12:26] <renesis> i believe its around that
[00:13:02] <furrywolf> fluorescent is around 80lm/w
[00:13:10] <fenn> furrywolf: oh i thought you might be running 144VDC or something
[00:13:42] <fenn> most power tools will run happily on dc
[00:13:46] <furrywolf> that's even more work. lol
[00:14:07] <furrywolf> no, most won't. most many decades ago would. now they all have scr speed controls and will fail miserably on dc.
[00:16:14] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:16:21] <renesis> wiki says 80-100 for t5 or t8 flouro, says up to 150 for a white led, up to 200 for sodium arc lamps
[00:17:33] <renesis> yeah so sodium arc isnt as efficient as i though
[00:17:39] <renesis> shrug
[00:17:46] <furrywolf> low-pressure sodium is monochromatic.
[00:17:48] <furrywolf> and not useful.
[00:18:04] <furrywolf> I don't just mean slightly yellow. I mean monochromatic. ONE wavelength. nothing else.
[00:18:22] <renesis> pretty sure ive seen those on street lights, heh
[00:18:56] <furrywolf> it's so monochromatic you get interference effects on everything you illuminate with them. :P
[00:19:00] <renesis> hence the earlier, 'omg colors' comment
[00:20:09] <renesis> http://www.astro.caltech.edu/palomar/images/blog/lpsstreet.jpg
[00:20:23] <renesis> some of childhood is remembered in monochrome yellow
[00:20:53] <renesis> still 30% more efficient than the best LEDs
[00:21:18] <furrywolf> bbl
[00:21:20] <renesis> but colors at night is neat
[00:21:53] <furrywolf> they're replacing the street lights with LEDs here as they fail
[00:22:06] <furrywolf> personally I do not like street lighting.
[00:22:19] <furrywolf> combined with fog it dramatically lowers your visibility.
[00:23:40] <XXCoder> inference patterns sound awesome lol
[00:23:57] <XXCoder> and yeah fog + street lamps = pea soup
[00:24:33] <renesis> you headlights are prob still brighter?
[00:24:47] <XXCoder> theres quite a difference
[00:25:02] <XXCoder> street lights turn volume area "solid"
[00:27:01] <XXCoder> http://movement.stanford.edu/courses/cs348b-competition/cs348b-05/snake/index.html awesome effect
[02:18:17] <just_pink> hi,
[02:18:51] <just_pink> someone know how to clean leather gloves from cutting oil?
[02:20:52] <XXCoder> hey
[02:21:01] <XXCoder> no idea
[02:21:53] <fenn> i hope you are not using gloves with the mill, they can get caught in the bit and break your fingers
[02:22:25] <XXCoder> yeah I never use glove anything (unless so thin like very breakable rubber) around machine
[02:23:12] <MrSunshine> hmm on my cmt bits it says "e0.1" in the laser engraving .. what does that mean ? is that the undersize of the bit ?
[02:23:43] <Deejay> moin
[02:23:52] <just_pink> I'm use the gloves for deboring
[02:24:25] <just_pink> I'm never work with gloves on the machine.
[02:24:57] <just_pink> but now I have oil and chips on them..
[02:25:05] <Deejay> hi just_pink
[02:25:12] <just_pink> hi Deejay
[02:25:20] <just_pink> how are you
[02:25:30] <XXCoder> dont wear anything you dont want damaged by machining
[02:25:52] <Deejay> tnx, fine, and you?
[02:25:57] <Deejay> hi XXCoder
[02:26:22] <XXCoder> just_pink: in fact, I change from outside shoes to work only shoes for that reason too
[02:26:38] <XXCoder> I keep work shoes in my shop toolcart when not in use
[02:26:49] <just_pink> XXCoder: "dont wear anything"
[02:26:54] <just_pink> NO!
[02:27:04] <XXCoder> read what I said again lol
[02:27:27] <Deejay> lol
[02:28:56] <archivist> gloves and shoes are "cleaned" by replacement
[02:30:22] <archivist> gloves get in the way of feeling a finish
[02:30:35] <XXCoder> in least its not feeling TO finish
[02:30:49] * zeeshan uses gloves when using a mill and lathe
[02:30:50] <zeeshan> :P
[02:30:55] <fenn> supercritical carbon dioxide cleaning
[02:30:58] <XXCoder> rubber ones?
[02:31:04] <zeeshan> yes
[02:31:06] <zeeshan> nitrle
[02:31:09] <zeeshan> nitrile
[02:31:23] <XXCoder> as long as it breaks before your fingers break
[02:31:24] <zeeshan> XXCoder: it'll still pull you in
[02:31:27] <zeeshan> if using lathe
[02:31:31] <zeeshan> gotta be super careful when using em
[02:31:35] <zeeshan> if im sanding, ill always take em off
[02:31:42] <zeeshan> lathe scares me :P
[02:31:46] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:31:52] <fenn> just_pink: i don't think it's possible to remove oil from leather without crazy dry-clean technology
[02:31:54] <XXCoder> I work next to one and damn is it scary
[02:31:58] <zeeshan> i made the mistake of googling "lathe accidents"
[02:32:01] <zeeshan> :P
[02:32:08] <fenn> just_pink: you can try cornstarch or talcum powder
[02:32:14] <zeeshan> don't google that if you have a weak stomach like me :P
[02:32:29] <fenn> zeeshan: but it drove the point home, rigth?
[02:32:35] <zeeshan> yes :)
[02:32:53] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I got stomach of steekl
[02:32:57] <XXCoder> too bad guts suck lol
[02:32:59] <just_pink> zeeshan: I google is some time
[02:33:02] <just_pink> OMG
[02:33:14] <zeeshan> you could try soaking the gloves in zep industrial cleaner
[02:33:24] <zeeshan> that seems to dissolve the grease and oil out of anything!
[02:33:39] <zeeshan> but it'll likely take away the good oils from your leather gloves
[02:33:46] <just_pink> I'm wondering about the chps..
[02:33:50] <just_pink> chips
[02:33:51] <XXCoder> is there oils can rub into gloves after
[02:34:02] <zeeshan> just_pink: if youre going to use gloves
[02:34:05] <zeeshan> buy some nitrile gloves
[02:34:07] <zeeshan> they are cheap
[02:34:08] <XXCoder> just_pink: can always buy another one and keep that one only for deburring
[02:34:12] <zeeshan> $12 per box of 100
[02:34:25] <just_pink> I have vinyl
[02:34:31] <zeeshan> vinyl is shit
[02:34:33] <zeeshan> so is latex
[02:35:16] <zeeshan> you wanna look for 8 mil nitrile
[02:35:38] <just_pink> I'm using the thick leather gloves to protect my nails when I'm feeling and deo some deboring.
[02:36:27] <XXCoder> you mean deburring?
[02:37:18] <just_pink> yes..
[02:37:43] <archivist> forget nails with mechanical jobs
[02:37:45] <Deejay> de-boring is nice ;)
[02:37:55] <just_pink> archivist: nooooo
[02:37:55] <XXCoder> de-boning
[02:38:48] <just_pink> I have now deep pink amazing so awesome nail polish,
[02:39:00] <just_pink> archivist: ^
[02:39:02] <Deejay> :)
[02:39:15] <fenn> maybe try some industrial strength epoxy paint
[02:39:39] <fenn> with carbon nanotubes
[02:39:48] * archivist fixes that with a twisted know brush on the angle grinder
[02:39:54] <archivist> knot
[02:40:56] <just_pink> I'm thinking about getting a grinder, but I'm also think it is a nail killer.
[02:41:37] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[02:41:46] <XXCoder> did you try faster cut and did it work
[02:42:04] <XXCoder> and did you learn about properly adjusting Z axis?
[02:43:13] <just_pink> I made one today with 1mm radial cut with 0.2 dept - and 300mm/m feed rate
[02:44:20] <just_pink> and I see that i have a play in the z axis of about 0.1mm
[02:44:55] <XXCoder> almost 0.004" inch thats quite large
[02:45:59] <just_pink> according to my calculations - the end mill cad push itself back about 0.2mm
[02:48:38] <archivist> the bit can bend, the column can bend, and the ways have play, it all adds up
[02:53:06] <just_pink> 0.2mm tool deflection it a problem?
[02:53:38] <archivist> yes if you want better accuracy
[02:58:06] <just_pink> nails&parts
[02:58:08] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/rr3D4kr.png
[02:58:22] <just_pink> archivist: ^
[02:59:07] <XXCoder> well thats longest machinist nails I have seen
[03:00:41] <just_pink> XXCoder: I dont have a grinder yet....
[03:01:24] <archivist> nails can get in the way of intricate work
[03:01:35] <just_pink> how I can fix the gap in the z axis?
[03:01:58] <archivist> adjust/rework the gibs
[03:02:37] <just_pink> but how?
[03:03:05] <archivist> I have a 400 page book on the subject :)
[03:03:32] <archivist> oops, nearly 530 pages
[03:04:36] <archivist> title is machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping, Edward F. Connelly
[03:06:25] <Wolf_Mill> hand scraped X1 :D
[03:06:59] <archivist> for crap like that a file can deal with high spots
[03:07:32] <fenn> doesn't take 400 pages to explain how to adjust a gib
[03:07:34] <just_pink> on some places i can push 0.1 mm feeler gauge on some other I cant push even 0.04mm
[03:07:58] <fenn> oh so it's actually really poorly made
[03:08:25] <fenn> make sure there are not chips embedded in the ways or easily removed high spots
[03:08:36] <Wolf_Mill> g0407 IIRC, not a suprise
[03:10:06] <just_pink> how i can find the hige spots?
[03:10:19] <archivist> get a pot of engineers blue and have fun
[03:10:27] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/NhD7UKG.png
[03:10:34] <Wolf_Mill> ink + granite setup table?
[03:10:41] <fenn> clean the oil off the ways and use a permanent marker like a sharpie
[03:11:04] <just_pink> what is "engineers blue"
[03:11:10] <fenn> it's like blue oil paint
[03:11:26] <XXCoder> engineer blue is awesome
[03:11:31] <fenn> the paint will rub off where the metal is touching
[03:11:31] <XXCoder> basically yeah
[03:11:34] <archivist> very fine, specially made for the job
[03:11:38] <Wolf_Mill> dykem
[03:11:57] <archivist> and my pot has gone missing!
[03:12:36] <just_pink> Layout Fluid??
[03:12:39] <fenn> leprechauns have stolen it no doubt
[03:12:55] <just_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dykem-80300-Steel-Blue-Layout-Fluid-Brush-in-Cap-4oz/191663174320?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20141212152715%26meid%3D9fbfc6e03f564967998649ad5f39f038%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D331621135575
[03:13:07] <archivist> layout fluid is the wrong stuff
[03:13:18] <Wolf_Mill> oops
[03:13:47] <Wolf_Mill> my bad... mind is on my build, thought of the dykem cause its infront of me and blue lol
[03:14:18] <fenn> just_pink: dry erase markers work for really coarse fitting, followed by sharpie markers for getting a good bearing surface, and then engineer's blue to do the final scraping
[03:14:48] <fenn> the dry ink will sort of glob together and make it easier to see where tiny contact patches are
[03:15:10] <just_pink> but how I remove the material?
[03:15:42] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stuart-Engineers-Micrometer-Blue-Marking-38-gram-Tin-/190405691880 will last a lifetime or until you lose it
[03:16:07] <fenn> it might be a simple manufacturing error like a sharp external edge of the dovetail interfering with the rounded interior corner
[03:16:20] <fenn> in that case you will only need to use a file
[03:16:24] <archivist> or just not adjusted correctly
[03:16:52] <fenn> hmm is it feasible to scrape 0.1mm by hand?
[03:19:28] <just_pink> archivist: how I'm usong the blue engineers in the link?
[03:20:48] <archivist> it is not a simple one or three lines in irc, google and look at a few machine reconditioning resources
[03:20:52] <just_pink> It'a look like a hand hand lotion
[03:21:17] <Wolf_Mill> layout fluid might dry too fast
[03:21:28] <archivist> its too hard as well
[03:21:44] <archivist> just the wrong tool for the job
[03:22:51] <just_pink> I mean insithe box I'm going to get.. liquid? paste? what?
[03:23:00] <just_pink> what I'm doing with it?
[03:24:06] <just_pink> I need to put it in a syringe and inject it to the gap?
[03:24:54] <fenn> it's a liquid that you sponge onto a surface
[03:25:19] <archivist> you will be taking the mill apart to use it
[03:27:37] <archivist> in that picture of the feelers there is an allen screw below, tighten
[03:28:29] <just_pink> ok
[03:29:15] <just_pink> but I'm trying to find a photo that show the inside of the blue stuff..
[03:29:15] <fenn> jeez all these websites about scraping want me to buy their book
[03:29:32] <Wolf_Mill> thats the z in that pic, right, that should be tapered gib as well
[03:30:01] <just_pink> i cant thight it more.
[03:30:05] <archivist> the allen screw is pushing on that gib
[03:30:12] <just_pink> I will brake the screw,
[03:30:31] <archivist> does it tighten that gap
[03:30:49] <archivist> does it stop the Z moving when too tight
[03:31:10] <archivist> adjust for free movement and least play
[03:31:47] <just_pink> I have 4 screws
[03:32:11] <just_pink> 2 big on the top and bottom, and 2 on the side
[03:32:13] <just_pink> http://mve-online.com/product_info.php/engine/stuarts-micrometer-blue-p-338?language=en
[03:32:45] <just_pink> here the blue stuff look like a powder
[03:35:05] <renesis> powdered dykem?
[03:35:17] <just_pink> you ask me?
[03:35:18] <Wolf_Mill> hmm ok that allen head should be what use to be a head stock travel lock
[03:36:13] <just_pink> Wolf_Mill: but even if I close all the screws I heve the gap.
[03:36:30] <just_pink> so somthing wrong with the gib or the rail.
[03:36:34] <renesis> oh youre scraping shit
[03:37:10] <just_pink> renesis: what do you mean?
[03:37:24] <Wolf_Mill> is that gap constant along the full range of travel?
[03:37:31] <just_pink> no
[03:38:16] <just_pink> some plce it get close but than i get a gap on the bottom.
[03:38:24] <just_pink> place*
[03:38:25] <fenn> https://en.industryarena.com/forum/g0704-z-axis-gib-tightening-issue--208650.html <- other people with same problem
[03:39:48] <just_pink> fenn: how i'm using the blue stuff
[03:39:51] <fenn> measuring the dovetail with pins and digital calipers seems like a good first step
[03:40:25] <fenn> just_pink: you can dab it on with a sponge or q-tip
[03:40:49] <fenn> this page shows how engineer's blue is used with a reference surface: http://moglice.com/articles/straight_talk/straighttalk.html
[03:41:26] <fenn> but you will just be checking the fit of the column dovetail against the head dovetail
[03:42:48] <just_pink> so it's a liqud?
[03:43:22] <fenn> i'm not sure, i just used blue oil paint :P
[03:45:33] <fenn> 'Both the "marking out" blue, and the "scraping blue" may be referred to as engineer's blue, which can lead to substantial confusion.'
[03:45:57] <Wolf_Mill> so, noob question, estop out, thats for VFD right?
[03:46:32] <just_pink> e stop - stop everything!
[03:46:33] <fenn> that's so when you click the "estop" button on the screen, the machine goes into estop
[03:46:45] <just_pink> I'm using self holding contator.
[03:46:56] <Wolf_Mill> Note I said OUT not in
[03:46:59] <fenn> all estop should be hard wired and not depend on the computer at all, especially the spindle
[03:47:48] <just_pink> and you need to take one of the ext contacts and connect thao the the computer
[03:48:02] <fenn> estop out is just another link in the hard-wired chain of switches
[03:48:15] <just_pink> so if you press on the estop it will stop the program from keep running.
[03:48:45] <Wolf_Mill> I was asking whats the pin fuction of estop out
[03:48:58] <Wolf_Mill> I know how a estop is hooked up :D
[03:50:32] <fenn> i'm not sure what you are asking
[03:51:07] <just_pink> I have 2 e stop buttos
[03:51:23] <just_pink> bis and small
[03:51:28] <just_pink> big*
[03:51:39] <just_pink> the big one kill everithing
[03:52:08] <just_pink> the small just kill the software level.
[03:52:14] <Wolf_Mill> in Stepconf, parallel port settings, ESTOP Out
[03:52:46] <just_pink> you can use it to kill you main contactor.
[03:53:09] <just_pink> like at the end of the run..
[03:55:23] <just_pink> archivist: https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/3265645?r=~|categoryl1:%22601071%20Cutting%20Tools%209and%20Metalworking%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22601746%20Metalworking%20Chemicals%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22611275%20Part%20Staining%20Colors%22|~
[03:55:32] <just_pink> this will work?
[03:55:39] <fenn> wolf i think if you don't select external estop it will do something like this in hal: net estop-loop iocontrol.0.user-enable-out iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[03:55:55] <fenn> if you do select external estop it will link them to parport pins instead
[03:56:18] <fenn> also i hate stepconf
[03:56:56] <just_pink> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0303122?r=~|categoryl1:%22601071%20Cutting%20Tools%209and%20Metalworking%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22601746%20Metalworking%20Chemicals%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22601751%20Layout%20Fluid%20Removers%22|~
[04:04:27] <fenn> the hi-spot blue is what you want
[04:05:35] <fenn> i'll say it again though, you can use sharpie markers for getting a rough fit
[04:07:03] <just_pink> so. I'm basiclly take the z axis a prt..
[04:07:36] <just_pink> and put sharpie all over the rails..
[04:07:58] <fenn> yep
[04:08:10] <just_pink> and slide the piace that hold the head?
[04:08:53] <fenn> you can just move the head up and down first to see what's going on
[04:09:04] <fenn> with the servo motor
[04:09:46] <just_pink> I have thick sharpie here.
[04:11:13] <cnc11> hallo to all
[04:11:19] <fenn> hi
[04:11:24] <just_pink> hello cnc11
[04:13:57] <cnc11> maybe can help me I will make automatic tool-change
[04:14:26] <cnc11> sorry for my not good English
[04:14:54] <Wolf_Mill> hmm motor no spin :/
[04:17:20] <just_pink> cnc11: what type of machine do you have?
[04:20:30] <just_pink> fenn: I took it the chip gurds off
[04:20:44] <just_pink> and everything is oily
[04:27:56] <just_pink> fenn: I tried now with the sharpie and i got thin line of metal
[04:28:33] <fenn> you have to wipe the oil off with a paper towel before using the sharpie
[04:28:43] <just_pink> I did it.
[04:29:00] <fenn> ok where is the line of metal?
[04:29:48] <just_pink> on the side
[04:30:35] <fenn> fixing a machine over IRC is like building a ship in a bottle while blindfolded
[04:32:20] <XXCoder> http://makezine.com/2015/08/22/six-now-why-didnt-i-think-of-that-shop-tips/ interestign
[04:35:54] <Wolf_Mill> yay I am having spinning steppers
[04:36:47] <cnc11> http://ibin.co/2D78VLZyjBEg
[04:37:07] <cnc11> my machine
[04:37:34] <fenn> what the heck is that
[04:37:58] <cnc11> ??
[04:39:27] <XXCoder> looks like vertical mill? never saw that type before
[04:39:31] <fenn> you have a 4 axis horizontal mill with 2 rotating work tables?
[04:40:03] <cnc11> yes
[04:40:14] <cnc11> and tool chenger
[04:41:13] <just_pink> fenn: http://i.imgur.com/gPzBtTc.png
[04:41:39] <just_pink> you can see on the right side..
[04:42:44] <fenn> just_pink: on the very edge of the dovetail, did you put sharpie marker? because it looks like it rubbed off there too, on both left and right sides
[04:43:22] <fenn> cnc11: interesting machine, looks like something i would make :)
[04:43:24] <just_pink> yes
[04:44:30] <cnc11> thank for every helping
[04:45:34] <XXCoder> okay lemme get it right, horzonal mill means tool is at horzonal position when milling?
[04:46:08] <fenn> cnc11: you probably want to use the "carousel" component: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/carousel.9.html
[04:47:00] <cnc11> the rotation of the tool-changer not impotent in the moment
[04:47:35] <archivist> no staining is the wrong stuff
[04:47:55] <archivist> just_pink, ^^
[04:48:53] <just_pink> archivist: what do you mean??
[04:49:13] <fenn> the gallon jug is the wrong thing to buy
[04:49:24] <archivist> staining is the same as layout, just plain wrong
[04:51:13] <fenn> ok i am no good at diagnosing way problems over irc
[04:52:52] <archivist> irc is not the right place for full machine diagnostics
[04:53:53] <fenn> but it seems like it should be possible to tell someone what to do
[04:54:28] <fenn> i mean there are books, and they use text...
[04:55:45] <XXCoder> wonder if that special grind stone round thingy would help flatten that
[04:56:00] <XXCoder> I use it somewhat often to smooth soft jaws or kurt jaws
[04:56:34] <fenn> well i'd like to know what the problem is before starting to remove metal
[04:56:49] <XXCoder> that is always best yeah
[04:56:52] <XXCoder> you cant return metal
[04:57:06] <XXCoder> unless invented time machine
[04:57:25] <cnc11> the process only for tool change
[04:58:02] <cnc11> not understanding
[04:58:24] <XXCoder> whooo http://hackaday.com/2015/08/22/mits-glass-3d-printer/ glass 3d printer!
[05:02:08] <Wolf_Mill> so, normal for stepper to get really warm when its standing by?
[05:02:30] <archivist> yes
[05:02:52] <XXCoder> its on constantly
[05:02:57] <XXCoder> even when not moving
[05:02:58] <archivist> specially if on pillars and not conducting the heat to the machine
[05:03:20] <Wolf_Mill> or sitting on the bench with your arm on it
[05:03:26] <archivist> it is holding its position
[05:04:10] <Wolf_Mill> hmm RTAPI Error... thats not good is it
[05:04:51] <Wolf_Mill> unexpected realtime delay on task 1...
[05:04:59] <archivist> latency?
[05:06:37] <archivist> how long did you do your latency test, did you abuse the machine ( scroll an editor, view vids, use network and hard disk, run glxgears)
[05:06:54] <just_pink> white shirt
[05:07:13] <Wolf_Mill> first time I let it run for about 12 hrs
[05:07:36] <fenn> cnc11: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/iocontrol.1.html when you do T1 the pin iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number is set to 1, then when you do M6 the pin iocontrol.0.tool-change goes high and your machine actually does the tool change, which can be a simple relay trigger or you can map it to a g-code routine
[05:07:37] <archivist> that abuse often finds stuff a normal run does not
[05:08:14] <Wolf_Mill> with the new video card about 30 mins, had 3 vlc windows running with movies playing, plus going on the net
[05:10:08] <fenn> cnc11: actual tool changer implementations can be very complex, see for example http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/attic/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.hal
[05:10:52] <fenn> in the mazak, much of the sequencing was done in classicladder
[05:10:56] <fenn> i will try to find a video
[05:11:04] <Wolf_Mill> well, I dont have much running right now, wtf
[05:12:58] <archivist> what was the latency
[05:13:11] <archivist> and what period did you select
[05:13:14] <Wolf_Mill> 11640
[05:13:52] <fenn> the mazak demo is to control this kind of toolchanger http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2pr1sv
[05:14:06] <archivist> give some headroom, I would use 15000
[05:16:12] <Wolf_Mill> i
[05:16:21] <just_pink> fenn: how to remove the sharpie?
[05:16:21] <Wolf_Mill> I'll give that a shot j
[05:16:32] <fenn> here you can see the mazak tool carousel http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0370.jpg
[05:17:12] <fenn> just_pink: rubbing alcohol, or don't worry about it
[05:17:23] <just_pink> ok
[05:17:49] <just_pink> I want to put nice coat of graphite on the rails
[05:17:54] <fenn> just_pink: you need to figure out which part of the head is touching the ways, and whether it is just out of alignment because it is loose, or if there is a manufacturing error
[05:18:03] <cnc11> thats big
[05:18:45] <just_pink> what about Graphite?
[05:19:26] <fenn> cnc11: a lot of the tool changer code was written with this machine in mind, so that's why there are things like "tool pocket" - it's the place where the tool you are going to use is waiting
[05:20:22] <cnc11> yes
[05:20:54] <fenn> just_pink: no graphite
[05:21:24] <just_pink> you dont think it can make it run better?
[05:21:44] <fenn> no, it will just make things dirty
[05:23:26] <cnc11> were I must write the place from my pocket
[05:24:04] <just_pink> and brass powder or graphite powder mix with oil
[05:25:00] <fenn> cnc11: have you done manual tool change yet? where you hold the tool and the machine clamps onto it
[05:26:45] <cnc11> no
[05:27:01] <fenn> do that first
[05:31:04] <cnc11> machine stop became message of change I push button (for pneumatic ) then tool go out
[05:32:13] <fenn> ok that is good
[05:32:41] <cnc11> and that make in automtic
[05:33:48] <just_pink> one side done with graphite
[05:34:02] <just_pink> it's feel much more smoth
[05:35:49] <cnc11> http://www83.zippyshare.com/v/acxY6qrW/file.html
[05:36:03] <cnc11> my ini file
[05:36:17] <fenn> please use pastebin.com
[05:38:22] <cnc11> http://pastebin.com/UqBDZTwJ
[05:38:59] <fenn> thanks
[05:39:26] <cnc11> :)
[05:42:31] <fenn> when you do M6 does the machine move to -159 -19 0 ?
[05:51:15] * fenn reads the manual
[05:51:47] <cnc11> i test it
[05:54:51] <cnc11> need tool parameter .....
[05:55:46] <fenn> anything, try T1M6
[05:55:56] <fenn> or T2M6
[05:56:33] <cnc11> than yes
[05:56:50] <cnc11> but Z 19.000
[05:57:17] <cnc11> all ok
[05:57:54] <cnc11> not tool measure
[05:58:52] <fenn> normally you do g43 after a tool change
[05:59:42] <fenn> ok, now let's see your .hal file
[05:59:48] <cnc11> no
[05:59:59] <cnc11> ok
[06:00:47] <cnc11> http://pastebin.com/MWjvUU5Y
[06:04:33] <fenn> this was generated with PNCconf, so now you must edit it with a text editor and add i/o to move your tool carousel
[06:05:42] <cnc11> time to time I edit
[06:06:32] <fenn> is the tool carousel moved by motors? or by pneumatics?
[06:07:05] <cnc11> the first is with PNCconfig for basis
[06:08:36] <cnc11> carousel is not intergreat
[06:09:51] <cnc11> it is motor now haven't a driver
[06:10:10] <fenn> so you just want to put the tool in the pocket?
[06:10:22] <cnc11> spindle have pneumatic
[06:10:58] <cnc11> yes
[06:11:39] <cnc11> now only one pocket
[06:12:42] <fenn> what i/o pin controls the spindle pneumatic cylinder?
[06:13:46] <cnc11> dont have make
[06:14:51] <fenn> you said "I push button (for pneumatic ) then tool go out"
[06:15:31] <cnc11> I close the relay with manual button
[06:15:56] <cnc11> for pneumatic
[06:18:15] <fenn> the 5i25 can only sink 20mA so you need a breakout board. do you have a breakout board?
[06:18:40] <cnc11> in have some button for save position , tool measure ,go off position
[06:18:58] <cnc11> 7i77
[06:19:24] <cnc11> and old parker driver
[06:24:35] <fenn> 7i77 terminal block TB8 pin 17 is OUTPUT0 - how much current can it sink? enough current to drive the relay?
[06:25:25] <cnc11> http://ibin.co/2D7fHEkAeBuU
[06:25:50] <fenn> i found it on the website (not in the manual) "The 7I77 is a analog servo interface with 6 encoder inputs, 6 analog +-10V outputs, one RS-422 expansion port, 32 isolated 5-32V inputs, and 16 isolated 5-32V 300 mA outputs."
[06:26:09] <fenn> so is 300 mA enough to drive your relay?
[06:27:12] <cnc11> it works
[06:27:43] <cnc11> not relay understand
[06:28:37] <fenn> the relay drives the valve to run the pneumatic cylinder on the spindle
[06:29:34] <fenn> anyway..
[06:30:21] <cnc11> yes
[06:30:45] <cnc11> enough
[06:34:46] <fenn> what happens if you do (from command line) halcmd setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00 1
[06:36:02] <fenn> voltage on pin 15 should go to 5V right?
[06:36:10] <fenn> er, pin 17
[06:36:49] <fenn> maybe 24V
[06:38:07] <fenn> too many wires :)
[06:38:24] <cnc11> 5V
[06:39:12] <fenn> halcmd setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00 0 changes it to 0V yes?
[06:42:50] <fenn> it might be hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1
[06:43:10] <cnc11> halcmd setp I dont now
[06:46:41] <fenn> oops sorry you were already using that pin: net estop-out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00
[06:47:03] <cnc11> the in- and out-put work
[06:48:23] <cnc11> my spindle need pneumatic for rotation
[06:49:14] <cnc11> 1.6 bar~2 bar
[06:49:46] <fenn> if you lose pressure does the tool stay attached?
[06:51:41] <cnc11> thats for centric
[06:52:59] <fenn> i don't understand
[06:54:39] <cnc11> spindle heve 2 pneumatic way 1 tool change (in moment manual) 2 for rotation
[06:55:13] <fenn> ok
[06:56:10] <cnc11> tool change 5~6 bar
[07:04:11] <cnc11> http://ibin.co/2D7r5M1LDALL
[07:04:49] <cnc11> my first test mill th
[07:05:14] <cnc11> with plastic
[07:07:34] <cnc11> back to tool change
[07:08:17] <cnc11> net estop-out => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-00 yes
[07:12:27] <fenn> i'm not sure how to make the machine move out of the way after it releases the tool in the pocket
[07:12:48] <fenn> there are a lot of custom tool changer components (written in C) but they are complex and hard to understand
[07:13:03] <fenn> like these http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ContributedComponents#Triac_Mill_carousel_toolchanger_component
[07:13:35] <fenn> but i think that is the old way to do it, and now there is a better way by remapping M6 to call a python script
[07:14:44] <fenn> documentation for this is also confusing and i am still reading it: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html#sec:Standard-glue
[07:15:41] <Wolf_Mill> my google fu is failing me this morning, how dO I do http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HereIsHowToCheck now that there is no hal_joystick (hate being a linux noob)
[07:18:45] <fenn> Wolf_Mill: load hal_input with your joystick plugged in and see what you get?
[07:19:57] <fenn> something like input.N.abs-X-position
[07:21:26] <fenn> Wolf_Mill: watch -n 0.1 halcmd show pin | grep input
[07:21:33] <cnc11> I'm use QJoyPad 4.1
[07:21:47] <cnc11> it is simple
[07:22:24] <fenn> Wolf_Mill: watch -n 0.1 'halcmd show pin | grep input'
[07:23:29] <fenn> there is probably some fancy way to watch pins with halmeter
[07:25:40] <Wolf_Mill> well, that didnt work
[07:26:10] <fenn> you have to load hal_input first
[07:27:54] <Wolf_Mill> ok...
[07:29:45] <fenn> halcmd loadusr hal_input -A <name of your joystick>
[07:29:58] <fenn> whatever it is called when you run lsusb
[07:32:10] <Wolf_Mill> the full name?
[07:32:17] <fenn> part of the name
[07:37:24] <fenn> ok cnc11 i think i understand how to do it
[07:37:40] <fenn> in your .ini file under section [RS274NGC]
[07:38:17] <fenn> REMAP=M6 ngc=toolchange
[07:38:30] <Wolf_Mill> ok, I see stick movents in that now
[07:42:24] <fenn> then make a file toolchange.ngc that moves G0 Z0 and then M63 P1 (?) and then M66 P1 L1 and then G0 Z -19
[07:43:16] <fenn> no, that's the wrong order
[07:43:45] <cnc11> ok
[07:44:04] <fenn> M63 P1; G0 Z0; M66 P1 L1; G0 Z -19
[07:45:42] <MacGalempsy> guys question about ohming out a motor. the manual says the terminal resistance is 1.6ohm and I am getting 1.8ohm does this seem out of spec for a nema 23 dc brushed servo?
[07:45:46] <cnc11> i must give a pin
[07:46:29] <fenn> then in your .hal there will be a signal that says toolchanger is in position that is connected to M66 through motion.digital-in-01
[07:46:49] <fenn> and M63 connects to hal through motion.digital-out-01
[07:48:17] <fenn> MacGalempsy: probably your multimeter leads have 0.2 ohms in them
[07:49:50] <fenn> cnc11: for now you can just press a button to turn on motion.digital-in-01
[07:51:45] <fenn> ah it's M62 not M63
[07:52:06] <cnc11> ok
[07:52:29] <fenn> M62 = turn on, M63 = turn off
[07:54:18] <fenn> M62 P1 ; G0 Z0 ; M63 P1 ; M66 P1 L1 ; G0 Z-19
[07:54:47] <cnc11> then use m62 and m63
[07:55:12] <fenn> maybe the G0 Z-19 is not necessary
[07:55:12] <cnc11> and in hal
[07:55:30] <cnc11> :)
[07:55:33] <cnc11> ;)
[07:56:09] <cnc11> I look my
[07:59:33] <cnc11> .hal not understand
[08:07:19] <fenn> i shouldn't have said anything about M62/M63/M66
[08:07:55] <fenn> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html#remap::interpreter-action-on-M6
[08:08:56] <cnc11> o
[08:09:26] <fenn> Iocontrol action on EMC_TOOL_LOAD: 1. it asserts the "tool-change" pin 2. it waits for the "tool-changed" pin to become active 3. when that has happened: a. deassert "tool-change" b. set "tool-prep-number" and "tool-prep-pocket" pins to zero c. execute the load_tool() function with the pocket as parameter.
[08:09:45] <fenn> that's exactly what we want to do
[08:11:17] <fenn> only problem is you have to put a G0 move in the correct place, so that's why all this remap and M62/M63/M66 stuff
[08:11:21] <fenn> bah
[08:11:24] <fenn> sorry
[08:11:47] <fenn> i have not implemented a toolchanger before
[08:14:08] <cnc11> all good
[08:14:53] <fenn> anyway, connect a button to motion.digital-in-01
[08:16:05] <fenn> something like net tool-changed hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.input-25 motion.digital-in-01
[08:16:26] <cnc11> :)
[08:17:11] <jthornton> tool change sim http://gnipsel.com/files/linuxcnc/configs/cl-turret-sim.zip
[08:17:45] <fenn> and net motion.digital-out-01 hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[08:18:30] <fenn> jthornton: i've been trying to stay away from classicladder
[08:20:11] <jthornton> chicken
[08:20:15] <fenn> also i don't think it's quite the same problem, because you don't have to do a Z axis move between tool changes
[08:20:33] <jthornton> ah yes that is correct
[08:20:40] <fenn> this is his machine http://ibin.co/2D78VLZyjBEg
[08:21:09] <jthornton> tools on the chain thing
[08:23:27] <archivist> what does that machine do
[08:23:57] <fenn> dental implants?
[08:24:13] <fenn> it looks small
[08:24:45] <skunksleep> There is a new remap demo that andy did
[08:25:19] <jthornton> there is a remap tool change in the sample configs too
[08:25:45] <fenn> i couldnt find any tool changers in the sample configs, where is it?
[08:25:54] <fenn> (except for the mazak)
[08:26:01] <jthornton> sim axis remap
[08:26:19] <skunksleep> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfZwpjUs1xI
[08:26:39] <skunksleep> Visimach samples
[08:27:49] <fenn> >>>>>>>>>>>  Not suggested for production use. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< lol
[08:28:25] <fenn> i hope that only applies to the python part
[08:32:28] <fenn> so is remap now the "official" way to do toolchanger hackery?
[08:33:25] <jthornton> only if you need it I guess
[08:34:29] <fenn> it seems like this is pretty similar to the rack toolchanger but instead of moving along X or Y it's a carousel
[08:37:24] <fenn> this rack demo cheats and skips the hard part: net tool-change  iocontrol.0.tool-change  iocontrol.0.tool-changed
[08:41:38] <fenn> i also don't like the use of M64 (immediate output) and G4 (dwell)
[08:46:38] <cnc11> yes i find the port in the but what do
[08:47:30] <fenn> tool-change goes high after calling M6
[08:48:25] <fenn> then it waits for tool-changed
[08:48:55] <fenn> on tool-changed, tool-change goes low
[08:49:39] <cnc11> ok
[08:50:56] <fenn> cnc11: my brain is turning to mush, it's time for me to sleep
[08:51:27] <fenn> hopefully one of these gentlemen can help you get further along
[08:52:02] <cnc11> ok thank you ;)
[08:52:34] <cnc11> i look time to time here
[10:33:38] <furrywolf> looking at a 4-channel-bridgable-to-2-channel amp.... it has a warning that you can't tie the negatives together. but usually bridgable amps have a common negative.
[10:34:11] <SpeedEvil> err
[10:34:31] <furrywolf> I need an amp with all four outputs having a shared common.
[10:34:31] <SpeedEvil> 'negatives' of bridged amps are just ordinary outputs
[10:34:39] <SpeedEvil> think h-bridges
[10:34:48] <furrywolf> yes, in bridged mode. but in non-bridged mode, they're commons. usually.
[10:35:04] <SpeedEvil> Oh - is this actual internal switching and not wired?
[10:35:08] <furrywolf> the amp is four half-Hs in four channel mode, wired to two Hs in bridged mode.
[10:36:03] <archivist> needs a +- power supply with centre tap for common in the in the 4 output mode
[10:36:21] <furrywolf> my car uses a shared common for all four speakers, and I've learned from experience that the amount of trim you have to remove to wire them separately is way too much work. :)
[10:38:35] <furrywolf> http://s215.photobucket.com/user/b5a4gt28/media/014-13.jpg.html was one of those on ebay cheap, but it had that warning on the bottom...
[10:39:43] <furrywolf> usually I figure bridgable amps, when not bridged, share a common.
[10:41:20] <furrywolf> anyone have a 4-channel bridgable car amp they want to sell? :P
[10:41:33] <furrywolf> doesn't need to be large, 40W RMS/channel would be plenty. it's for full-range speakers, not subs.
[10:41:57] <SpeedEvil> I would open it up and see the wires
[10:42:07] <furrywolf> just need something with a bit more oomph than the 10W/channel or so of the factory head unit...
[10:42:34] <archivist> the speakers themselves may not like the extra
[10:42:53] <SpeedEvil> It could simply be that the outputs have no caps
[10:43:00] <furrywolf> I'll upgrade the speakers as needed. but it has some decently beefy Clarion units in it.
[10:43:00] <SpeedEvil> And float at ~6V or whatever
[10:43:25] <SpeedEvil> but that if you short the outputs together, they don't handle it well for some reason
[10:43:44] <SpeedEvil> Wait
[10:43:50] * SpeedEvil doesn't know.
[10:43:53] * SpeedEvil is not awake enough.
[10:44:07] <SpeedEvil> You're relying on someone four or five steps from the designer.
[10:44:12] <SpeedEvil> To make the label
[10:44:12] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: all non-tiny car amps have dc-dc power supplies in them to boost the voltage
[10:44:25] <furrywolf> And possibly four or five languages. :)
[10:44:26] <SpeedEvil> yes - I was using 6V as a short-cut
[10:44:40] <SpeedEvil> It's not actually 6V, but half the boosted PSU volts
[10:45:00] <furrywolf> or it's ground and they generate +/- voltages.
[10:45:02] <SpeedEvil> You want to use this as four seperate amps?
[10:45:16] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: that too
[10:45:19] <furrywolf> ... no, I want to use it <furrywolf> my car uses a shared common for all four speakers, and I've learned from experience that the amount of trim you have to remove to wire them separately is way too much work. :)
[10:45:25] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:45:52] <SpeedEvil> The simple solution is speaker isolation transformers.
[10:45:56] <SpeedEvil> If only that was a thing
[10:46:08] <furrywolf> it is a thing. it's also far less simple than just selecting the right amp.
[10:46:20] <CaptHindsight> did they stop making them?
[10:46:22] <SpeedEvil> It's probably easiest to open it up
[10:46:29] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: it's way too heavy to be practical
[10:46:36] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: and ridiculously expensive
[10:46:45] <furrywolf> no, it's not easy to open up amps for sale on ebay. it requires lots of plane travel and breaking and entering.
[10:46:56] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Oh - I assumed you had this
[10:47:34] <CaptHindsight> just use a 70V sound system :)
[10:48:50] <archivist> get 4 mono amps. no confusion
[10:48:53] <furrywolf> I bought a 4-channel amp at a yard sale yesterday, but it's blown... looking on ebay now.
[10:49:07] <furrywolf> I have several spare 2-channel amps. heh.
[10:49:56] <furrywolf> it actually seems hard to find an amp SMALL enough. I don't need 1000W to drive my 5.5" speakers.
[10:50:24] <CaptHindsight> unless they are using Chinese watts for rating
[10:52:14] <furrywolf> hrmm, ok, I think I see what they're doing. they're inverting two of the channels and swapping the + and - labels. so your common is half the +s and half the -s, not all the -s.
[10:53:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIOBAHN-MINI-STEREO-1000W-2-CH-COMPACT-CAR-ATV-MOTORCYCLE-BIKE-AMPLIFIER-AMP-/171139226171
[10:53:08] <furrywolf> hence the warning not to tie all the -s together.
[10:53:28] <CaptHindsight> Peak Power - 2 x 500w @ 2 ohms LOL
[10:53:33] <furrywolf> also means if I use one of them, two of my speakers will be inverted unless I swap the wiring at the speakers.
[10:53:56] <archivist> CaptHindsight, crest factor!
[10:54:42] <archivist> and remember to multiply by number of channels and the phase of Jupiters moons
[10:55:33] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: some of the best ratings are given in "PMPO" watts, if you want to search for that term to see stupid numbers. :P
[10:55:39] <furrywolf> 100 PMPO watts is about 1 watt.
[10:57:07] <SpeedEvil> USB powered speakers are amusing
[10:57:27] <CaptHindsight> USB subwoofer
[10:57:32] <furrywolf> 5 watts max, assuming your usb ports let you pull 1A instead of 500ma? :)
[10:57:45] <furrywolf> I saw a usb coffee cup warmer the other day.
[10:57:57] <furrywolf> I don't think it even used a peltier.
[10:58:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAMSUNG-SMS-M60U-laptop-2ch-Stereo-Speaker-3-5mm-50W-Black-USB-Powered-/252037082997?hash=item3aae94af75
[10:58:25] <furrywolf> if I were trying to heat with that little power, it'd have a high-COP heat pump stuck to it...
[11:00:12] <furrywolf> depending on the music, you probably could put a few ultracaps in it, and draw the 2.5/5W continuously while supplying larger peak outputs, as long as the average power draw stayed low enough. for idiot music that mostly quiet except for loud farting noises, that'd probably work quite well.
[11:01:40] <SpeedEvil> Err - no
[11:01:54] <furrywolf> no what?
[11:02:00] <SpeedEvil> 99.9999% of popular music recently has been ruined by a multiband compressor before it gets to the user
[11:02:17] <SpeedEvil> The dynamic peaks are 0.5dB over the average
[11:02:35] * SpeedEvil wants to shoot the inventor of the multiband compressor in the head
[11:02:51] <furrywolf> ... you listen to the shit that comes out of the trunk of your average honda civic? it's some guy with brain damage combined with intermittant loud farting noises. :P
[11:03:21] <furrywolf> the loud farting noises need more power than the rest of the music put together...
[11:03:27] <furrywolf> (I use the term "music" loosely)
[11:05:32] <furrywolf> the amount of power you need goes down with frequency... and most music doesn't have the lowest bass notes at full power continually. any music made with actual percussion instruments, for example.
[11:18:29] <furrywolf> on a slightly related audio note, these Mini Advents I got at a yard sale are pretty nice for their size.
[11:19:38] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADVENT-The-Classic-Mini-Advent-Main-Surround-Stereo-Speakers-SOLID-PECAN-/371414154847 those
[11:20:34] <furrywolf> I did not expect actual bass out of them. I can actually hear playing with the 29hz slider on the equalizer. :)
[11:21:47] <furrywolf> I might pick up another pair to use for testing quad audio hardware...
[11:24:02] <furrywolf> hrmm, according to the internet, playing them at the volume I'm currently playing them at will result in them needing refoaming sooner rather than later. oh well.
[11:34:03] <furrywolf> blah. my mb quart woofer that I thought got ruined is, indeed, toast.
[11:34:21] <furrywolf> it was in my car when I got rear-ended
[11:35:22] <furrywolf> blah, only ebay replacement for it is $130... oh well, I'll toss the other in the spares box.
[11:35:57] <furrywolf> actually, the $130 one isn't even the right speaker.
[11:36:51] <furrywolf> when my car got crunched, it got hit by a bucket of paint... which then splattered into the speaker. the voice coil was frozen in place, and I crunched the former trying to free it up.
[11:58:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: paper of plastic cone?
[11:58:51] <Jymmm> or*
[12:00:02] <furrywolf> plastic
[12:00:32] <Jymmm> furrywolf: If it was latex paint, maybe try hot white vinagar
[12:01:43] <Jymmm> The axle seal I picked up doesn't have any grease on it. Would white lithium grease work?
[12:02:20] <Jymmm> (it's what I have atm)
[12:02:28] <furrywolf> again, I mushed the former trying to free it up.
[12:02:43] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Oh, I missed that. bummer
[12:05:31] <Rab> Jymmm, do you expect a lot of heat in that application?
[12:06:14] <Rab> Like, is it an actual car axle?
[12:06:19] <Jymmm> Rab: It's the axle seal for my SUV, I would think so
[12:06:55] <Rab> I would be concerned that the lithium grease could creep into the bearings and contaminate the existing grease.
[12:07:41] <Jymmm> In this video, his seal came with grease *shrug* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWhfvTfvCGw
[12:08:14] <Jymmm> Rab: Honestly, I dont have a clue, just trying not to phuk anythign up
[12:10:26] <Rab> Shrug, I would grudgingly make another trip and get some nice synthetic axle grease. But I have a Vato Zone 5 min away.
[12:11:34] <Jymmm> Rab: Living int he vario, living in the vario, couldn't you be mine, won't you be mine, won't you be my vato
[12:12:03] <Jymmm> (to the tune of Mister Rogers Neighborhood)
[12:13:31] <Jymmm> Also, since I'm replacing the seal, I'm wondering if I should replace the bearing at the same time. Synthetic gear all is hella expensive at $13/quart x 3
[12:13:43] <Jymmm> s/all/oil/
[12:28:49] <zeeshan> anyone here run MQL?
[12:30:03] <Jymmm> Metaweb query language (MQL)?
[12:30:22] <Jymmm> Minimum Quantity Lubrication?
[12:30:33] <zeeshan> :P
[12:30:52] <Jymmm> I googled, no clue what "MQL" is
[12:31:16] <zeeshan> then you don't run it :)
[12:31:39] <zeeshan> its so warm today
[12:31:41] <zeeshan> beautiful
[12:36:31] <Jymmm> Rab: This ??? http://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/lubricant-grease/mobil-12-5-oz-354-369-g-wheel-bearings-chassis-suspension-universal-joints-synthetic-grease/1436_0_0/
[12:37:59] <Rab> Jymmm, I dunno, looks legit.
[12:38:02] <zeeshan> Jymmm: you dont wanna use white lithiuum grease there
[12:38:17] <zeeshan> you want to use a moly based lube
[12:38:24] <Jymmm> zeeshan: This ? http://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/lubricant-grease/coastal-moly-grease/561753_0_0/
[12:39:42] <zeeshan> no
[12:39:46] <zeeshan> what you posted is the right stuff
[12:40:23] <zeeshan> im trying to find the stuff
[12:40:24] <zeeshan> that i use
[12:40:47] <Jymmm> so the last link is the wrong?
[12:40:52] <zeeshan> yes
[12:41:03] <zeeshan> thease i used was purplish
[12:42:29] <zeeshan> http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82
[12:42:32] <zeeshan> this is what i use
[12:42:47] <zeeshan> http://www.amazon.ca/Red-Line-80402-Synthetic-Grease/dp/B000CPAEJA
[12:42:48] <zeeshan> better pic
[12:43:03] <zeeshan> you can find it at "hot rod" shops
[12:44:25] <Jymmm> There are none in the area, autozone is basically it today.
[12:44:43] <Jymmm> What is different from the cv2 than the coastal ?
[12:44:46] <Rab> Probably overkill for an SUV.
[12:45:11] <zeeshan> specifically formulated
[12:45:13] <zeeshan> for cv joints
[12:45:19] <zeeshan> (extreme pressure)
[12:45:26] <zeeshan> if you look in your factory service manual
[12:45:37] <zeeshan> you'll see that it's a special part number
[12:45:44] <zeeshan> usually they don't reveal the type of grease
[12:45:55] <zeeshan> but for other components like ball joints etc
[12:46:18] <zeeshan> they do reveal it, so that usually is a red flag from engineering that it's quite different if you want to make em last long
[12:46:26] <zeeshan> or they're trying to make $$$$$$ :P
[12:46:36] <zeeshan> but i've seen it like that for a alot of different car manuals
[12:47:51] <Jymmm> zeeshan: I dont mean to sound unappreciative of your input, but It's sunday, I'm in bfe with my expedition up on jacks, and I need to figure out what grease, from autozone, to get. Not special factory part number lubricated or specialty shop high performance stuff.
[12:48:16] <zeeshan> then throw at least moly grease in there
[12:48:18] <zeeshan> not lithium grease
[12:48:35] <zeeshan> if you go to autoparts store
[12:48:39] <zeeshan> it'll be named "extreme pressure grease"
[12:49:37] <furrywolf> most grease is lithium based.
[12:49:47] <furrywolf> moly grease is lithium grease with moly...
[12:49:53] <zeeshan> i know
[12:49:59] <Jymmm> Is this the proper stuff to use on the axle seals (where the axle will be touching the inside of the seal) ? http://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/lubricant-grease/coastal-moly-grease/561753_0_0/
[12:50:21] <furrywolf> did you determine if your bearings were good yet?
[12:50:51] <Jymmm> furrywolf: When I comare the left ro the right side, they have the exact same play
[12:51:07] <zeeshan> Jymmm: ep stands for extreme pressure
[12:51:09] <zeeshan> if you didnt know :P
[12:51:12] <furrywolf> that isn't an answer. :P
[12:51:13] <zeeshan> so that'll work no problem
[12:51:42] <furrywolf> the inside of this pioneer amp is EMPTY. it's a single-sided pcb with a few dozen components.
[12:51:52] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Then I'm sorry, I don't know how else to answer/check
[12:52:00] <furrywolf> each channel is a little module with a bunch of legs
[12:52:10] <furrywolf> like a 20-pin to-220.
[12:52:24] <furrywolf> much smaller than stk modules
[12:52:26] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Those are not uncommon
[12:52:52] <Jymmm> furrywolf: google the module PN, you should find it's specs easily
[12:52:53] <furrywolf> yes, I know. but this amp has more empty space than usual. lol
[12:53:03] <furrywolf> it could easily be half the size.
[12:53:23] <furrywolf> http://www.hifi-pictures.net/base-car-amps/Pioneer%20GM-X374/platka.jpg there's a similar amp
[12:53:27] <Jymmm> furrywolf: YOu mean like the lead weight in the lamp base to make it feel "more"
[12:53:46] <Rab> Jymmm, the Coastal says not suitable for disc brakes. This stuff might be better, since you'll have it on hand for future projects: http://www.autozone.com/greases-and-gear-oil/lubricant-grease/valvoline-semi-synthetic-grease/56537_0_0/
[12:53:53] <furrywolf> note most of the board is just jumpers... including the inductors. lol
[12:53:58] <Rab> $2 difference.
[12:55:02] <furrywolf> I just buy "high temp disc brake wheel bearing grease" and use it for everything. that way I only need one grease gun.
[12:55:41] <Jymmm> Rab: price not an issue, lasts forever.
[12:55:42] * zeeshan is proper :P
[12:55:45] * zeeshan follows the book!
[12:55:59] <furrywolf> the book for my truck specifies the same grease for everything. :P
[12:56:05] <zeeshan> haha
[12:56:10] <zeeshan> you know whats hard to go?
[12:56:11] <furrywolf> from the wheel bearings to the trailer hitch. :P
[12:56:15] <zeeshan> transmission assembly lube
[12:56:19] <zeeshan> i had to special order that stuff
[12:56:41] <furrywolf> because engine assembley grease won't work? :P
[12:56:45] <furrywolf> gear oil and motor oil are pretty similar.
[12:56:45] <zeeshan> nahh
[12:56:56] <zeeshan> the t56 uses dexron iii atf
[12:56:58] <furrywolf> and if your transmission takes something other than gear oil, it's evil.
[12:57:03] <zeeshan> this stuff melts on contact with atf
[12:57:03] <furrywolf> like that.
[12:57:22] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Dont say that, I just bought 3 quarts of synthetic gear oil at $13/each
[12:57:23] <zeeshan> its pretty cool
[12:57:24] <zeeshan> i tried it :P
[12:57:39] <furrywolf> Jymmm: did you read what I said?
[12:57:59] <Jymmm> furrywolf: --> furrywolf: gear oil and motor oil are pretty similar.
[12:58:10] <furrywolf> I usually just use grease for assembling things... it's nice and tacky, and dissolves on contact with oil anyway.
[12:58:23] <furrywolf> Jymmm: not similar enough you can interchange them. heh9~
[12:58:25] <furrywolf> .
[12:58:30] <Jymmm> =)
[12:58:49] <furrywolf> I learned not to use superlube teflon grease on carbs, though... amazingly it does not dissolve in gasoline.
[12:59:19] <Jymmm> furrywolf: dry cleaning fluid
[12:59:33] <furrywolf> I still use it on carb gaskets, though - makes sure they don't stick when you pull it back apart.
[13:00:24] <furrywolf> "Pioneer knows: You need power, and you need it now. The 4-channel GM-X374 packs serious punch with 35 watts RMS per channel of clean power" ... that's a serious punch, alright. lol
[13:00:57] <Jymmm> Oh pioneer, I was thining alpine
[13:01:22] * furrywolf doesn't consider 35W serious power
[13:02:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9iywjxw.jpg
[13:02:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Before I go back down the hill for grease, do you have a way to check bearings other than compare play on left/right by chance?
[13:02:20] <zeeshan> Jymmm: dial indicator
[13:02:21] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, use whale blubber
[13:02:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/UA0SXAO.jpg
[13:02:29] <zeeshan> furry look at how close this mounting holes get
[13:02:30] <zeeshan> lol
[13:02:40] <furrywolf> and that's 35W at 14.4V, aka imaginary.
[13:02:41] <zeeshan> i really hope i dont crack the wood
[13:02:42] <zeeshan> :(
[13:02:56] <Tom_itx> my bets are not in your favor
[13:03:55] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I was thinking last night that if you needed more strength than the screws provide, you could make some easy redneck-grade expanding mandrels by turning the head round on a bolt, putting some tight-fitting rubber tube on it, putting in sticking out of the island on your plate, and tightening a nut on the back of it.
[13:04:21] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Did you have a wiring diagram that show how you hooked up the KBSI and reversal on the KBIC/mesa card?
[13:04:32] <os1r1s> I thought I saw one, but now I can't find it
[13:04:34] <Tom_itx> zeeshan why is there a split down the middle?
[13:04:45] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: for camming purposes
[13:04:53] <archivist> ew
[13:05:22] <zeeshan> furrywolf: really a mandrel would be the best
[13:05:25] <zeeshan> but its also the most time consuming
[13:05:36] <zeeshan> if i was gonna do it
[13:05:40] <zeeshan> i'd make a split type
[13:06:11] <furrywolf> yes, which is why I gave a 1-minute variety, rather than a time-consuming variety. :)
[13:06:52] <zeeshan> :P
[13:07:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/
[13:07:14] <Tom_itx> os1r1s is that what you're looking for?
[13:08:08] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Not exactly. I thought you had a wiring diagram about how you hooked it up to reverse
[13:08:20] <Tom_itx> no not that i know of
[13:08:37] <Tom_itx> i used 2 relays but a DPDT would do
[13:08:40] <Tom_itx> i didn't have one
[13:09:32] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Did you just use that on the motor wire itself? Or did you put in in front of the KBIC?
[13:10:01] <furrywolf> "Do not shorten any wires. Otherwise the protection circuit should fail to work when it should." lol. so if you don't use the full 50ft of speaker wire, the resistance is too low for the protection circuit to prevent popping the output modules. Or, they have a good excuse to blame the amp failure on you, whether the cause was shorted wires or not.
[13:10:19] <furrywolf> s/should/could
[13:11:57] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, on the motor
[13:12:14] <Tom_itx> my control has no reverse on it
[13:12:27] <Tom_itx> that would have been the ideal thing but i didn't wanna buy one
[13:12:32] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Ok, that makes sense.
[13:12:50] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: So you PWM the KBIS and use the relays for on/off
[13:12:50] <furrywolf> I'm still not sure if I should bother adding reverse to my shoptask spindles. it's a lot of extra parts.
[13:13:22] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i'll look in a bit exactly how i did it
[13:13:35] <Tom_itx> but that sounds pretty close
[13:13:58] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: I'm guessing like this ... http://www.sherline.com/reverse.htm
[13:14:01] <Tom_itx> i know i also used a SSR on the driver going to enable
[13:14:18] <Tom_itx> i used the sherline diagram, yes
[13:14:24] <archivist> reversal, remember break before make
[13:14:38] <archivist> else bang
[13:14:42] <furrywolf> the vast majority of relays are break before make. :)
[13:14:54] <Tom_itx> archivist, i added delay on the relays so they basically had no current on them
[13:14:57] <archivist> some are not :)
[13:15:00] <os1r1s> archivist: Not following
[13:15:03] <Tom_itx> checked it on the logic analyser
[13:15:19] <os1r1s> Nm, I get it
[13:16:02] <Tom_itx> i had a different diagram from sherline
[13:16:19] <Tom_itx> probably similar though
[13:16:29] <Tom_itx> because i used their inhibit pin
[13:16:42] <Tom_itx> what that does is start the driver up in a ramp up mode
[13:16:52] <Tom_itx> read about it
[13:17:32] <Tom_itx> that's partially why my reverse is so slow
[13:18:31] <Tom_itx> i was trying to do everything i could to save the relay contacts etc
[13:18:46] <Tom_itx> and stress on the driver
[13:19:33] <furrywolf> reversing my spindles would take two SSRs (could be mechanical relays, but not needed) and two beefy DPDT relays...
[13:19:35] <furrywolf> too much work. :)
[13:20:10] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: I see in the kbic manual the dynamic braking circuit which uses the inhibit
[13:20:35] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:21:34] <zeeshan> flip flop flip flop
[13:21:36] <zeeshan> poor relays
[13:21:56] <Tom_itx> that's what they're made to do
[13:22:00] <os1r1s> zeeshan: I would imagine he doesn't flip them that often
[13:22:09] <zeeshan> imagine if YOU had to do that all day long
[13:22:11] <zeeshan> how would you feel
[13:22:33] <zeeshan> transistors are prolly the sadest electronics out there
[13:22:52] <zeeshan> or i guess i could think of it like a kid on a swing
[13:22:56] <zeeshan> no matter how many times you go back and forth
[13:22:59] <zeeshan> you're h aving fun :P
[13:23:08] * zeeshan is on a tangent
[13:23:24] <furrywolf> is "tangent" a new term for "drugs"?
[13:23:49] <zeeshan> :{
[13:23:58] <zeeshan> im the last person to do recreational drugs
[13:24:05] <zeeshan> i'm too high on life
[13:24:14] <furrywolf> lol
[13:26:31] <archivist> can you measure your tangent?
[13:26:54] <zeeshan> 14 degrees 5 minutes 1 second
[13:27:27] <archivist> oops http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191664470431
[13:27:55] <zeeshan> pro customer tip:
[13:27:59] <furrywolf> I guess I need to clip my 'scope on this amp to see which channels it inverters and whether it does it all the time or only in bridged mode...
[13:28:01] <zeeshan> make the extra effort
[13:28:07] <zeeshan> in front of the customer, they will be customer for life.
[13:28:16] <zeeshan> and you'll gain more customers from them :P
[13:28:35] <zeeshan> pro "business" tip
[13:28:57] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wtf mate
[13:29:01] <zeeshan> go return that pos to the guy
[13:29:06] <furrywolf> pro vendor tip: some customers cost you money, not make you it. any customer that says anything along the lines of "the customer is always right" will invariably fall in this category.
[13:29:10] <zeeshan> i've done it before when ive been blatantly lied to
[13:29:14] <zeeshan> and gave them shit
[13:29:22] <zeeshan> but i had a text conversation so i had some proof.
[13:29:31] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I think it just needed the switches wobbled more, as it seems to have four channels today. lol
[13:29:41] <zeeshan> customer is definitely not always right
[13:29:52] <zeeshan> i have rejected a couple people in the past before
[13:29:55] <zeeshan> because i didnt like their attitude
[13:29:58] <zeeshan> i knew they would be trouble
[13:29:59] <Tom_itx> 48 cop cars showed up on the scene last night for an officer down call... not including fire and ambulance
[13:30:11] <Tom_itx> cars.. not bodies
[13:30:13] <zeeshan> furyah
[13:30:33] <zeeshan> my mtx amp had loose connectors
[13:30:44] <Tom_itx> http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Wichita-police-officer-injured-during-traffic-stop-322611172.html
[13:30:55] <furrywolf> I don't think we have that many cop cars here. and here the cops are never down - they make sure to shoot first. even if the person is innocent, unarmed, and has their hands up.
[13:31:26] <SpeedEvil> Ah - the south-park defence.
[13:31:35] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: you live in wichita??
[13:31:40] <zeeshan> i always see those cops on the show cops
[13:31:41] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:31:42] <zeeshan> they're awesome
[13:31:43] <SpeedEvil> Legit shoot as long as you yell 'he's coming right for us'
[13:31:58] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, yea i've seen a few of them
[13:32:00] <zeeshan> why so many cops though
[13:32:00] <zeeshan> lol
[13:32:07] <Tom_itx> read the story
[13:32:15] <Tom_itx> he dragged the cop
[13:33:19] <SpeedEvil> Depending on the definition of 'dragged'
[13:33:36] <zeeshan> yes but that doesnt call for that many cops
[13:33:40] <zeeshan> maybe 6?
[13:33:41] <furrywolf> probably means "tried to get away, the cop grabbed the vehicle".
[13:33:59] <furrywolf> because any position that would legitimately count as dragging doesn't leave him in a position to shoot the driver.
[13:34:02] <Tom_itx> it was on a highway
[13:34:06] <Tom_itx> that's probably why
[13:35:10] <SpeedEvil> ;When the officer made contact with the driver, he began fighting with the officer and then dragged the officer with his car.' - for example trying to grab the driver through a slow-moving car window, and the driver hitting the gas accidentally, then the brake would also do that
[13:36:00] <SpeedEvil> Hard to tell without credible evidence or video or ...
[13:36:43] <furrywolf> funny how unreliable those dashboard cams in cop cars are, always malfunctioning every time there's an officer involved shooting...
[13:37:27] <furrywolf> heh, because of too many problems with cops, a couple of the local police forces are now being told to wear shoulder cams, and they'd better not turn them off.
[13:37:44] <SpeedEvil> I would be surprised if 'by the book' dogma ever advocated touching the car while the driver was not clearly complying.
[13:38:06] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I can't figure out why there is even on OFF switch at all.
[13:38:14] <Jymmm> an*
[13:38:41] <SpeedEvil> Storage and data transfer is nearly free.
[13:38:42] <furrywolf> by the book is to shoot first and ask questions later. our DA has repeatedly ruled that it's only necessary for an officer to _feel_ threatened for it to be legal to shoot someone, whether or not any such threat exists or whether a reasonable person would have felt the same way.
[13:39:25] <Jymmm> furrywolf: WTH?!
[13:39:48] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Does that mean if YOU "feel threatened" you can shoot first?
[13:40:13] <furrywolf> no, because I'm not a cop.
[13:40:27] <furrywolf> if you're not a cop, in california you have a duty to retreat, with no right to stand your ground.
[13:40:32] * Jymmm is reminded of the BART "which one is my gun, which one is my tazer" thing.
[13:41:06] <Jymmm> furrywolf: "duty" ???
[13:42:23] <CaptHindsight> you have to fair, those are easily confused, especially when bad guys are threatening to take your lunch money
[13:42:34] <SpeedEvil> If someone threatens you and you're armed, you can't shoot them because you've got a gun, you have to back off.
[13:42:51] <SpeedEvil> Which is not a completely unreasonable position.
[13:43:00] <SpeedEvil> Both that and stand your ground have issues
[13:43:07] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_retreat
[13:43:57] <Rab> furrywolf, California actually has a stand your ground law. :P
[13:44:01] <Rab> http://socallawblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/is-california-stand-your-ground-state.html
[13:44:23] <furrywolf> Rab: no, we have a court decision from 2005 that no one pays attention to
[13:45:16] <furrywolf> As an example, the courts here a couple years ago tried a family that defended their house from burglars. one of the family was killed.
[13:45:19] <furrywolf> they should have ran away!
[13:45:32] <moorbo> canada or usa
[13:45:43] <furrywolf> they got off, but the fact that it even went to court is pretty sad... and they only got off because the da decided they couldn't find a jury that would convict them.
[13:45:48] <furrywolf> california, usa.
[13:45:51] <moorbo> ah
[13:46:16] <Jymmm> furrywolf: That's fucked up. Know which county that case was in?
[13:46:36] <SpeedEvil> It's not unreasonable there should be an investigation.
[13:46:39] <furrywolf> either humboldt or trinity.
[13:46:47] <SpeedEvil> But prosecution only under teh most extreme of circumstances
[13:47:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Says california is a "stand your ground" state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
[13:47:11] <CaptHindsight> the double standard is not by accident
[13:48:47] <CaptHindsight> police help to keep the lower classes afraid and inline, how is this news?
[13:49:05] <CaptHindsight> they also help to keep the corporate prison system busy
[13:49:27] <CaptHindsight> what would be news is if people started doing something to change this
[13:49:39] <furrywolf> the cops here are just about as bad as the tweekers, but are better at brainwashing people. and every election they say "we need more money to fight the tweekers", then people give them more money, then they spend the money on meter maids and harassing dope growers, none of it dealing with actual crime.
[13:50:19] <Jymmm> furrywolf: 197 and 198.5 --> http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199
[13:50:23] <CaptHindsight> what cave would you have to be living in to not have seen this for the past 15-20 years
[13:50:32] <furrywolf> because bullshit citations and seizing weed money gets put straight into their pockets.
[13:51:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It's not that it's new or news, it's what can be done without retrubituon of defending your own homw.
[13:51:37] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: so how to you get people out of their comas and caves to fix this?
[13:51:38] <Jymmm> home*
[13:51:59] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: when you figure it out, let me know.
[13:52:37] <furrywolf> Jymmm: the same section that says it's legal to murder rioters and protestors. :P
[13:53:04] <Jymmm> furrywolf: and protect master/mistress too =)
[13:53:21] <Jymmm> 197.3
[13:56:24] <furrywolf> is using a 2ft section of 2/0 THW in an enclosure to code for a 250A breaker? ampacity in free air is 265A, but my code is too rusty to remember how an enclosure (not a conduit, cable, or raceway) affects that...
[13:58:20] * furrywolf declares it good enough
[14:04:38] <archivist> also depends on how many are bunched in said space too
[14:05:02] <archivist> loads of silliness in wiring codes
[14:07:30] <archivist> 15th ed in the uk, all exposed metal to be earthed(grounded) idiots started grounding hat pegs
[14:07:53] <archivist> and window furniture
[14:10:00] <zeeshan> FML :(
[14:10:34] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: have a pic? what is the conductor for? why is it only 2ft long and only in the enclosure?
[14:11:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'd guess solar related
[14:11:45] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Ardvarks eat your pillows?
[14:11:48] <CaptHindsight> the NEC won't apply to what is inside a control cabinet
[14:11:57] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: dc breaker to inverter in a solar installation
[14:12:09] <zeeshan> thats definitely nec terrirtory :P
[14:12:33] <zeeshan> how many conductors
[14:12:39] <zeeshan> conduit size?
[14:12:45] <furrywolf> http://ressupply.com/store/electrical-distribution-parts/disconnects-and-switches/outback-fw500-dc-flexware-disconnect-box the box on the right to the inverter in the middle
[14:13:05] <furrywolf> it never goes through conduit... there's a large opening (3 inches or so) to run the two wires through between two open boxes
[14:13:10] <CaptHindsight> no conduit if it's inside an enclosure
[14:13:23] <malcom2073> Bah, looks like I can't use the steppers I have laying around :/
[14:13:26] <zeeshan> o
[14:13:37] <furrywolf> malcom2073: good thing you have a far superior set of servos.
[14:13:46] <zeeshan> 310.15 says it snot to code
[14:13:50] <zeeshan> if its 2/0 and 250A
[14:13:52] <CaptHindsight> ha ha ha in zeeshans face, in a respectful way
[14:14:13] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Unsure if I can afford to get that up and running :P. Drivers don't look good, and I still need a power supply
[14:14:31] <furrywolf> 310.17 says it is?
[14:14:42] <furrywolf> in what way do they not look good?
[14:15:07] <malcom2073> furrywolf: They were sitting outside for a year, and look kinda corroded? Could be fine though, don't have a power supply to power them up and see if they smoke or not
[14:15:12] <zeeshan> i guess i dont understand your install
[14:15:20] <zeeshan> the breaker is inside 1 enclosure
[14:15:29] <zeeshan> and the thing its powering is inside another enclosure
[14:15:32] <zeeshan> but they're all inside a cabinet?
[14:15:44] <CaptHindsight> wouldn't a pic be handy at this point?
[14:15:48] <CaptHindsight> nah
[14:15:49] <zeeshan> yep
[14:15:56] * furrywolf googles for another pic, having already pasted one
[14:16:06] <zeeshan> if its that grey crap
[14:16:13] <zeeshan> in that pic
[14:16:18] <zeeshan> i cant tell if thats a raceway or an enclosure.
[14:16:27] <furrywolf> http://smartroofsystems.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/FLEXware500PowerCentercopy.JPG
[14:16:47] <zeeshan> looks like a fancy raceway to me
[14:16:48] <furrywolf> the wiring from the right-side breaker box into the inverters (black, in the middle)
[14:16:48] <zeeshan> not free air.
[14:16:53] <zeeshan> free air is literally free air
[14:17:04] <zeeshan> like wires dangling from the pole to your place
[14:17:12] <furrywolf> it's quite roomy in there. that picture lacks scale. :)
[14:17:18] <zeeshan> its still not free air :P
[14:17:44] <Jymmm> I'd define free are as open to ventilation
[14:17:57] <zeeshan> Jymmm: or you could follow nec's definition of free air :P
[14:17:58] <Jymmm> not in an enclosed space/area
[14:18:00] <CaptHindsight> conduit and raceway is not free air
[14:18:18] <zeeshan> free air is literally how i defined it
[14:18:25] <zeeshan> wire dangling from pole to your place
[14:18:27] <zeeshan> :P
[14:18:32] <Jymmm> zeeshan: I try for common sense instead, just makes more sense that way =)
[14:18:54] <furrywolf> but it's also not conduit or raceway... it's a large open space.
[14:19:05] <Jymmm> furrywolf: define "open"
[14:19:36] <zeeshan> doesnt look open to me
[14:19:36] <furrywolf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pee1LnqxPmI
[14:19:36] <zeeshan> :P
[14:19:47] <zeeshan> instead of asking us
[14:19:52] <zeeshan> doesn't the manual say?
[14:20:00] <furrywolf> wtf? is that guy using #4 car audio ricer wire? lol
[14:20:05] <CaptHindsight> sounds like he wants to dangle an conductor from the breaker to the inverter
[14:20:29] <furrywolf> the manual says "buy the right unit for $5000 instead of random parts".
[14:20:48] <furrywolf> and it comes with suitable cables included. heh.
[14:21:04] <zeeshan> i'd be willing to bed they are 250kcmil
[14:21:04] <furrywolf> I really don't want to have to build 4/0 cables... ouch.
[14:21:16] <CaptHindsight> so instead of paying them you want us to tell you for free, I get it
[14:21:39] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: if I pay them I get actual things. :P
[14:24:06] <CaptHindsight> I'd pay them to install it so I could be at the beach
[14:24:21] <furrywolf> the guy I got the unit from said it was good for 24V, but apparantly there's two versions, a 24V one and a 48V one, and this is the 48V one.
[14:24:29] <furrywolf> I'm glad you're rich.
[14:28:06] <CaptHindsight> ok, I'll trade you the answer for 2 days of quiet in here :)
[14:28:23] <malcom2073> lol
[14:28:45] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: since when did you become a comedian
[14:32:26] <Tom_itx> you could be dealing with flyback ya know...
[14:32:40] <malcom2073> He's already talked this month, you got another 30 days until he pipes up again
[14:34:05] <furrywolf> when people ask questions, I usually try to help them if I can, not give them crap...
[14:34:45] <Tom_itx> i try to do both
[14:35:02] <zeeshan> this place can be great to ask q
[14:35:04] <zeeshan> and also worst :)
[14:35:16] <zeeshan> ESPECIALLY if im around
[14:35:52] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i really think if you wanna be safe
[14:35:54] <Tom_itx> there _is_ a vast pool of knowledge ehre
[14:35:54] <zeeshan> 250kcmil
[14:36:30] <zeeshan> 85% knowledge = pcw
[14:36:31] <zeeshan> jk
[14:36:32] <zeeshan> :P
[14:37:05] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: The pool is filled with alligators though
[14:37:29] <Tom_itx> everything comes at a cost
[14:38:04] <zeeshan> i wish bobo hung around here more
[14:38:08] <zeeshan> he is full of knowledge too :p
[14:39:31] <Tom_itx> when you gonna start cuttin on the wood?
[14:39:38] <zeeshan> prolly next week
[14:39:40] <Tom_itx> kinda anxious to see how it turns out
[14:39:42] <zeeshan> he placed order today and put deposit
[14:39:44] * furrywolf has a lot of knowledge, it's just spread over a wide variety of subjects
[14:40:08] <Tom_itx> what'd you end up with a stepover rate?
[14:40:18] <zeeshan> 50 thou
[14:40:31] <furrywolf> zeeshan: let me know how it works. you've inspired me to consider making odd-shaped wooden objects to sell myself.
[14:40:31] <Tom_itx> did you run a test?
[14:40:47] <zeeshan> great
[14:40:50] <zeeshan> more turds in this world
[14:40:51] <Tom_itx> furrywolf what software would you use for 3d?
[14:41:16] <zeeshan> this is the first time i've really relied on cam
[14:41:16] <zeeshan> completely
[14:41:19] <zeeshan> without checking over the code
[14:41:24] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: what kind of 3d? if cad or cam, no clue. I haven't even found working 2d!
[14:41:27] <zeeshan> i just gotta trust it :(
[14:41:44] <zeeshan> furrywolf: get a student copy of solidworks or inventor
[14:41:45] <zeeshan> i will teach
[14:41:48] <Tom_itx> it's usually pretty close
[14:42:01] * furrywolf might have to write a cad/cam package, which seems like a lot of code
[14:42:22] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, i think i can remote into solidworks 14 from here
[14:42:26] <malcom2073> I keep intenting to give CAM a shot
[14:42:35] <zeeshan> malcom2073: you gotta
[14:42:37] <zeeshan> it makes life so easy
[14:42:42] <malcom2073> I mean writing one
[14:42:43] <zeeshan> once you setup your post processor
[14:42:44] <zeeshan> oh
[14:42:55] <Tom_itx> alot of things don't need cam but some just about can't be done without it
[14:43:24] <zeeshan> yea but Tom_itx like say you got a 3d model with 200 holes like that plate i was working on
[14:43:35] <zeeshan> i literally set up my stock size, selected my datum
[14:43:52] <furrywolf> malcom2073: my first cam project ended up detouring towards being a simulator and then not finishing it. heh.
[14:43:57] <zeeshan> highlighted the holes, chose drill cycle, wrote my parameters, and tool size
[14:43:59] <malcom2073> Heh
[14:44:17] <zeeshan> (well i didnt even write my parameters, it did it automatically bnased on aluminum and presets i have)
[14:44:43] <furrywolf> I represented the stock, desired shape, tool, machine, etc, in a giant octree down to 1 tenth resolution, so it could accurately simulate what movements would do.
[14:44:47] <zeeshan> and then i copied that tool path and selected another tool for drilling, and copied that tool path again and selected tap and set pitch
[14:44:51] <zeeshan> it literally took 5 min or less
[14:44:57] <zeeshan> imagine you had to write that by hand
[14:45:05] <zeeshan> you'd be sitting there writing coordinates and prolly making a mistake :P
[14:45:20] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: didn't yours miss like five holes? :P
[14:45:21] <Tom_itx> no, if they're a set distance you would use a subroutine
[14:45:21] <zeeshan> you could prolly have subroutine loops
[14:45:33] <zeeshan> but its a mistake ready to happen
[14:45:50] <zeeshan> furrywolf: hahaha
[14:46:19] <zeeshan> i forgot to select holes
[14:46:23] <zeeshan> and then tried to modif yit by hand
[14:46:29] <zeeshan> and missed even more holes! :P
[14:46:41] <furrywolf> so it didn't avoid user error, it just moved it to another step of the process. :P
[14:46:44] <zeeshan> was being quick, was a favor to someone :P
[14:46:56] <zeeshan> well missing holes is ok
[14:47:03] <zeeshan> but drilling the wrong spot isnt :(
[14:47:19] <zeeshan> i think theres 2 things in machining that make me cringe and most peoplec an relate
[14:47:22] <zeeshan> it just ruins your day
[14:47:31] <zeeshan> 1. you drilled in the wrong spot and you realize it as it's happening
[14:47:35] <zeeshan> 2. snapping a tap
[14:47:36] <furrywolf> malcom2073: I got as far as loading a .ply triangle strip model into the octree, and performing some basic operations on it... and then decided it was too much work, and wasn't the way I wanted to do it.
[14:48:06] <malcom2073> Heh, I've been fiddling around with loading STL's, and figuring out toolpaths in layers for stepped operations, 2.5D nothing 3d yet
[14:49:07] <furrywolf> I want to combine it with my raytracing/photon mapping, by writing a modular system for 3d manipulations...
[14:49:18] <Tom_itx> malcom2073, andy was doing something with stl's
[14:49:37] <Tom_itx> for slicing i think
[14:50:29] <furrywolf> I stopped the raytracer because I decided I needed to re-write it in C++. it got to the point where I was reimplementing way too large of a portion of c++ by using structs of function pointers being initialized to the right functions for the object type, casting structs to shorter structs contained at the start of the struct, etc...
[14:51:08] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Turns out you were right, that is 5.2amps on that motor, not 52
[14:51:16] <furrywolf> lol
[14:51:27] <malcom2073> I found a better looking nameplate to read :P
[14:51:37] <zeeshan> malcom2073: still doesnt mean they're not valuable
[14:51:49] <zeeshan> try posting on ebay for $400
[14:51:52] <zeeshan> i think you'll sell em
[14:53:10] <Tom_itx> 52A would be a big frickin motor
[14:53:12] <malcom2073> Well... I was thinking of saving them to use on my router
[14:53:18] <zeeshan> good idea
[14:53:22] <furrywolf> I guess the best answer to the ampacity question is to buy 8ft of 4/0 and 8 lugs, and make some thicker cables.
[14:53:27] <malcom2073> lol
[14:53:38] <zeeshan> furrywolf: at eaton
[14:53:44] <zeeshan> we did a few solar distributions
[14:53:47] <furrywolf> ?
[14:53:52] <zeeshan> we had special lugs just for this specific thing
[14:53:55] <malcom2073> But it looks like I'm going to have to buy steppers, which may make it the same price as buying a new set of drives for these servos... so I need to price out my options
[14:54:04] <zeeshan> it weas literally a block of aluminum
[14:54:19] <zeeshan> that took a massive cable on one end and 6 or so cables on the other end
[14:54:28] <furrywolf> heh
[14:54:34] <furrywolf> I use tinned copper marine lugs
[14:54:45] <zeeshan> whatever works
[14:54:50] <zeeshan> im used to doing it by the book
[14:54:56] <zeeshan> cause we wont meet csa standards otherwise
[14:55:21] <zeeshan> to describe how anal things are, if you used a non csa approved crimper that was specifically designed for a crimp
[14:55:24] <furrywolf> ... that is by the book. the same lugs are crimped onto industrial mains wiring...
[14:55:30] <zeeshan> (each crimper manufacturer has a different crimper)
[14:55:39] <zeeshan> it won't pass inspection
[14:55:41] <furrywolf> and I have a thomas&betts 12-ton crimper with the proper dies for them.
[14:55:42] <zeeshan> no you're not getting me.
[14:55:46] <zeeshan> you can't use random components
[14:55:50] <zeeshan> that arent approved for the specific task
[14:56:01] <zeeshan> even though you know they'll get the job done.
[14:56:10] <zeeshan> each component goes through testing to get those approvals
[14:56:34] <zeeshan> if you want to use a random component, you will need to go through the csa approval process
[14:56:40] <zeeshan> which is $$$
[14:57:00] <furrywolf> http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=13642M I have one of those, and the proper dies that match the t&b lugs I have, forming a complete, approved crimp. :P
[14:59:18] <furrywolf> http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/13642M-T-B-TOOL-12-TON-PRESS/152459
[14:59:38] <zeeshan> you coulkd be rich if you sold that :P
[15:00:21] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/hexcrimp2.jpg makes sexy crimps like that. (one of the first ones I made testing it)
[15:00:29] <zeeshan> that is gorgeous
[15:00:32] <furrywolf> no, I could sell it for the whole $100 I bought it for on ebay. :P
[15:00:42] <zeeshan> that tool is on $100?
[15:00:48] <zeeshan> ill buy it off you for $200
[15:00:49] <zeeshan> :-)
[15:01:05] <furrywolf> no. me like. mine. :P
[15:01:10] <zeeshan> can you give me the model number?|
[15:01:14] <zeeshan> ive been using the hammer jig
[15:01:16] <zeeshan> to crimp
[15:01:22] <zeeshan> but i would much rather get something liek this
[15:01:37] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: When you dig into your control, can you tell me what relay coil and brake resistor value you used?
[15:01:39] <furrywolf> that's a t&b 13642m. I wouldn't suggest it. it takes an outdated non-standard style of dies.
[15:01:39] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-Hydraulic-Wire-Crimper-Battery-Cable-Lug-Terminal-Crimping-Tool-11-Dies-/331633317473?hash=item4d36e2d661
[15:01:41] <zeeshan> is this similar?
[15:01:55] <furrywolf> I also have a newer burndy hypress I need to fix, which takes modern, standard dies.
[15:01:56] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i don't have a brake resistor
[15:02:11] <Tom_itx> and the relays were those cheap chinese things you get on ebay for arduino :D
[15:02:24] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: those are garbage.
[15:02:35] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Oh, I was looking at the inhibit circuit and it shows using brake resistor
[15:02:40] <furrywolf> also, kill your -lab client so my client stops autocompleting to it. :P
[15:02:47] <zeeshan> haha im not ther e:()
[15:02:56] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, what are you looking at?
[15:03:15] <Tom_itx> i'll dig my stuff out here in a bit.. working on something atm
[15:03:29] <furrywolf> as a general rule, $48 chinese tools are not comparable to $3800 US tools.
[15:03:35] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbic_manual.pdf page 20
[15:03:51] <furrywolf> I had the harbor freight version of that, and it broke on its first crimp. :P
[15:06:12] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burndy-Y35-Hypress-Hydraulic-Crimper-W-Case-AS-IS-/331630972976 is an excellent deal if you don't mind putting in the $45 seal kit yourself. that's the same model I have that I still haven't gotten around to buying a seal kit for. heh.
[15:07:00] <zeeshan> looks old :P
[15:07:17] <furrywolf> looks less than 1/20th new price. :P
[15:08:08] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burndy-Y35-Hypress-/231653976293?hash=item35efa728e5 that one's newer. :P
[15:09:36] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i wasn't aware of the resistor.. i didn't read the whole thing. i may have to do some checking on that
[15:09:53] <zeeshan> honerstly now that i think about it
[15:09:56] <zeeshan> i could just make the dies myself
[15:10:00] <zeeshan> and use it on my hydraulic press
[15:10:04] <zeeshan> i don't do it very often
[15:10:25] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i need to make sure that's the same control i have as well. they make one that has reverse built in
[15:10:33] <Tom_itx> i don't have it
[15:11:05] * JT-Shop wonders why I have 200' of 1" angle
[15:11:26] <furrywolf> because you haven't given it to the rest of us yet.
[15:12:16] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, read P 13
[15:12:42] <Tom_itx> FOR DYNAMIC BRAKE OR REVERSING, USE MODEL KBRG, KBPB OR KBCC-R
[15:15:36] <os1r1s> Hmm
[15:16:09] <Tom_itx> i think that's why i added the delays etc in mine
[15:16:38] <Tom_itx> i'll have to look...
[15:16:39] <os1r1s> So you didn't do anything with L1 or L2
[15:16:46] <os1r1s> You just added the relays and the delays?
[15:16:47] <Tom_itx> i may have
[15:16:54] <Tom_itx> i'll check in a bit
[15:16:57] <os1r1s> k
[15:24:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/UqY7Vhg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OaSY35W.jpg
[15:24:47] <zeeshan> so this is what im thinking of making for an expanding collet
[15:25:05] <zeeshan> that blue plate will have the location feature
[15:25:11] <zeeshan> stud goes through it, and i tighten it with a nut
[15:25:25] <zeeshan> then that blue plate attaches to the make fixture
[15:25:43] <furrywolf> sounds good.
[15:25:51] <zeeshan> looks relatively simple to fabricate
[15:26:30] <furrywolf> I'd suggest using it in addition to, not instead of, at least two screws.
[15:26:46] <zeeshan> i cant put screws
[15:26:50] <zeeshan> he wants the bottom to be wood
[15:26:54] <zeeshan> and no holes in it
[15:27:06] <furrywolf> can't put them inside one of the pockets?
[15:27:16] <zeeshan> yea but then they'll get machined off
[15:27:19] <Tom_itx> the expansion will split the wood
[15:27:20] <zeeshan> in a subsequent step
[15:27:30] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i don't thinkso
[15:27:34] <zeeshan> if im hemaning it
[15:27:36] <zeeshan> maybe
[15:27:44] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: it's plastiwood. :)
[15:27:47] <zeeshan> rememb er its a polymer infused wood
[15:27:53] <Tom_itx> and if you don't it won't hold
[15:28:09] <Tom_itx> or will be out of tolerance
[15:28:18] <zeeshan> im not locating off the expanding collet
[15:28:19] <Tom_itx> after all that turd has tolerance!
[15:28:25] <zeeshan> im locating off the bottom square thing
[15:28:28] <furrywolf> another option would be to mill the end second and use a through-bolt to pull it, but that's an unfixtured step.
[15:28:53] <zeeshan> honestly if i find out that this collet is no good
[15:29:05] <zeeshan> i might just at sharpe v's in outer periphery of the collet
[15:29:14] <zeeshan> to bite into the wood
[15:29:25] <furrywolf> do a test, see how it works.
[15:30:03] <furrywolf> crank down on it in a scrap until it cracks, so you have an idea of when it does.
[15:30:45] <Tom_itx> do a test of 100 and average the force
[15:31:34] <zeeshan> lemme show you what i mean to minimize the force needed on the collet
[15:31:41] <furrywolf> 100 of them would be rather expensive. that plastic wood isn't cheap. :P
[15:35:12] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/TRIWKAe.jpg
[15:35:18] <zeeshan> now it doesnt need as much cranking force
[15:35:25] <zeeshan> cause it bites into the wood
[15:35:57] <furrywolf> just added another machining step. :P
[15:36:07] <zeeshan> itll be made on the lathe
[15:36:09] <zeeshan> so not too much work
[15:36:16] <zeeshan> isntead of profiling it flat
[15:36:19] <zeeshan> itll have steps
[15:36:34] <SpeedEvil> CNC is wier
[15:36:34] <SpeedEvil> d
[15:36:47] <furrywolf> put a belleville at the base of it so, once it spreads, it pulls downwards too.
[15:37:11] <zeeshan> base between blue and brown?
[15:37:14] <furrywolf> (a very soft one)
[15:37:16] <zeeshan> er interface between
[15:37:20] <furrywolf> yes
[15:37:56] <zeeshan> i dont see it :P
[15:38:14] <zeeshan> (i dont see purpose)
[15:38:40] <furrywolf> to hold it tight against the plate
[15:38:57] <furrywolf> instead of simply near the plate
[15:39:00] <zeeshan> green thing pulling on left
[15:39:11] <furrywolf> will spread it outwards, but not pull it tight
[15:39:13] <zeeshan> will force brown thing to expand and also make it square to blue plate
[15:39:22] <zeeshan> oh i see what you mean
[15:39:35] <zeeshan> cause the contact line is at the expansion point of the collet
[15:39:36] <zeeshan> makes sense
[15:40:01] <furrywolf> if you let the collet pull back slightly after it's expanded, it'll hold it tight against the plate
[15:40:22] <furrywolf> proper spring rate will be tricky. a rubber washer might be plenty.
[15:40:38] <zeeshan> i like idea of belleville
[15:40:38] <zeeshan> i has
[15:40:39] <furrywolf> an actual belleville you might overexpand the collet and crack the wood before it compressed any
[15:40:43] <zeeshan> rubber n ot predictable
[15:40:58] <zeeshan> i could use a dinky one
[15:41:17] <zeeshan> i dont think the brown thing needs to be square with the blue plate
[15:41:24] <zeeshan> cause the locating feature on the blue plate
[15:41:28] <zeeshan> will force it to be square
[15:41:35] <furrywolf> so you're getting $150 each for the lumps?
[15:41:39] <zeeshan> yessir
[15:41:44] <zeeshan> not enough
[15:41:49] <zeeshan> + stainless plates
[15:42:00] <furrywolf> ah, so there's more than just this step.
[15:42:00] <zeeshan> whatever, ill do em slowly in spare time
[15:42:08] <zeeshan> yes
[15:42:19] <zeeshan> id be lucky to make 25 an hour for em all said and done
[15:42:19] <furrywolf> you buying the stainless, him the wood
[15:42:19] <furrywolf> ?
[15:42:31] <furrywolf> 25 an hour isn't bad. :P
[15:42:32] <zeeshan> if i do it right, can make 40
[15:42:38] <zeeshan> it is terribly bad
[15:42:43] <zeeshan> i usually charge 45 an hour
[15:42:57] <furrywolf> try getting a job and seeing what you get paid. lol
[15:43:09] <zeeshan> furrywolf: if i get this job at eaton
[15:43:17] <furrywolf> I don't know what the minimum wage is in canada, but in the US, it's something around $6 an hour.
[15:43:17] <zeeshan> ill be making more than 25 hour
[15:43:20] <zeeshan> i was making that during my coop
[15:43:30] <zeeshan> its 11 / hr here
[15:43:33] <XXCoder> $45 a hour is quite a lot more than I make lol
[15:43:42] <XXCoder> $25 still quit a bit more
[15:43:43] <furrywolf> XXCoder: me too
[15:43:44] <zeeshan> XXCoder: thats not 45 in my pocket though
[15:43:49] <furrywolf> and me too again.
[15:43:50] <furrywolf> heh
[15:43:55] <zeeshan> it includes tooling cost, welding gas cost
[15:43:57] <zeeshan> electricity
[15:43:57] <zeeshan> etc
[15:44:11] <zeeshan> material cost is seperate
[15:44:44] <zeeshan> XXCoder: fyi
[15:44:48] <zeeshan> machine operators here make 21 an hour
[15:45:07] <zeeshan> they load and unload parts, change inserts, change fluids, do spc checks
[15:45:23] <XXCoder> thats still bit more than I earn. I earn $16 a hour
[15:45:27] <zeeshan> programmers make 25-26/hr
[15:45:29] <XXCoder> $14 + swing $2
[15:45:48] <zeeshan> well it really depends on area right?
[15:46:11] <XXCoder> possibly. I'm pretty sure it is low but its always hard for me to get a job
[15:46:28] <zeeshan> XXCoder: try doing some mastercam courses in your technical college
[15:46:33] <zeeshan> you'll be suprised how much money you can make
[15:46:57] <XXCoder> dunno if can, I work 10 hours a day lol
[15:47:06] <zeeshan> gonna have to :P
[15:47:06] <XXCoder> fri-sun is only days I have off
[15:47:12] <zeeshan> thats perfect
[15:47:22] <zeeshan> my technical college offers course sat and sun
[15:47:30] <zeeshan> like 5 hour per day!
[15:47:42] <XXCoder> not bad
[15:47:44] <furrywolf> wow, canada is weird. here nothing happens on saturdays or sundays. :P
[15:47:57] <zeeshan> honestly, you just gotta make a decision
[15:48:03] <zeeshan> and you'll start seeing options open up for you
[15:48:23] <zeeshan> ive been extremely poor throughout school
[15:48:32] <zeeshan> i've been in school for almost 9 years now
[15:48:34] <os1r1s> furrywolf: We run our machines weekends and nights.
[15:48:36] <XXCoder> same
[15:48:41] <os1r1s> And I'm in the US.
[15:48:53] <zeeshan> but ive worked every summer, and started my small business on the side
[15:48:55] <XXCoder> shop I work at also has weekend shift. 3 days fri-sunday 12 hours a day
[15:48:59] <zeeshan> only way to survive
[15:49:00] <XXCoder> but paid 40 hours
[15:49:04] <furrywolf> os1r1s: none of the local machine or tool shops are open here.
[15:49:32] <XXCoder> be back later
[15:49:41] <os1r1s> furrywolf: That's strange. I don't know many around here that don't do that. But we manufacture our own parts. We aren't a normal machine shop
[15:49:51] <furrywolf> and things that are open, like hardware stores, tend to close early. at one point NAPA auto parts was open from 12:00-4:00 only on sundays. they're better now with new owners.
[15:50:00] <zeeshan> lol
[15:50:37] <zeeshan> im pretty sure continental shifts are common in manufacturing
[15:51:38] <furrywolf> hours here are often short... one of the banks is only open tuesdays and thursdays from 10am to 3pm. :)
[15:51:44] <furrywolf> (closed the other five days)
[15:51:59] <furrywolf> rural areas aren't like cities. heh.
[15:52:08] <zeeshan> i live in a rural area
[15:52:14] <zeeshan> but im 10 mins from town
[15:52:19] <furrywolf> at least here we get mail on saturdays! where I lived last only m-f mail.
[15:53:17] <zeeshan> i wonder if i should make the collets out of aluminum
[15:53:18] <zeeshan> or steel
[15:53:29] <furrywolf> something springy.
[16:04:43] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, L1 L2 is where the power comes in
[16:04:46] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Slitting-Saw-Blade-Grinder-Arbor-Holder-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Press-/221817877248?hash=item33a5603300
[16:04:47] <zeeshan> hmm
[16:04:52] <zeeshan> this looks like a handy tool
[16:05:23] <Tom_itx> i've got one for my sherline
[16:05:28] <zeeshan> does it have a key?
[16:05:44] <Tom_itx> for the blade?
[16:05:44] <Tom_itx> no
[16:05:48] <zeeshan> hmm
[16:05:54] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Hmm, I'll have to check my pics of it. So you can't put a brake on there even if you want to
[16:05:54] <Tom_itx> 5/8 hole iirc
[16:05:55] <zeeshan> that aint good
[16:06:09] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i don't think so
[16:06:17] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: And which mesa did you have hooked up to the KBSI?
[16:06:17] <Tom_itx> mine wasn't designed for it i believe
[16:06:50] <Tom_itx> i used a board Mr zeeshan gave me to begin with then i used the 7i47S analog out
[16:08:28] <zeeshan> looks like a lot of these slitting saw arbors
[16:08:29] <zeeshan> dont have a key..
[16:08:32] <zeeshan> wtf is the key for then?
[16:08:44] <Tom_itx> to make you wonder
[16:09:15] <Tom_itx> http://cnc4pc.com/product_info.php/variable-speed-control-board-p-58?osCsid=l52d1vi4g5af0qtis8r8ufong5
[16:09:23] <Tom_itx> iirc that was the board i started with
[16:09:29] <Tom_itx> right zee?
[16:09:41] <zeeshan> yes looks like it
[16:09:48] <zeeshan> wasnt that last year?
[16:09:51] <zeeshan> i forget :P
[16:10:05] <Tom_itx> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C6R6%20and%20KB120%20V1.pdf
[16:10:22] <Tom_itx> i printed that but can't recall how much of it i used
[16:12:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.sherline.com/dcwiring.pdf
[16:12:25] <Tom_itx> and that
[16:12:25] <furrywolf> zee needs to send me a 7i76e. :P
[16:17:42] <XXCoder> zeeshan: theres rural then theres rural lol you probably can shoot machine gun all over at fur's home (missing her house and stuff of course) and bullets would just hit nature lol
[16:17:51] <XXCoder> and no cops probably will come? lol
[16:19:41] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: I think your power is coming into L1 and L2. I see an I1 and I2 on mine.
[16:20:06] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Looking at this setup ... http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C41R2%20and%20KB120%20V1.pdf
[16:20:22] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/Using_the%20Gecko_G540_VFD_Output.pdf
[16:20:25] <renesis> omg dont shoot nature
[16:20:27] <Tom_itx> also referred to that
[16:20:31] <Tom_itx> P.4
[16:21:35] <Tom_itx> i compared notes from those sources
[16:21:53] <Deejay> gn8
[16:22:09] <Tom_itx> wired it up
[16:22:14] <Tom_itx> and forgot what i did :D
[16:23:35] <Tom_itx> take careful note the GND on the driver is floating
[16:23:57] <Tom_itx> you do anything crazy and you'll need that isolation board
[16:24:14] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/kbsi_240d_manual.pdf
[16:24:15] <Tom_itx> that
[16:24:34] <malcom2073> zeeshan: My servos are 28lb/in continous stall torque. That's only 448oz/in
[16:25:09] <malcom2073> I understand that steppers need to be significantly stronger than the servo they're replacing, but a 3x should do it yeah? heh
[16:26:58] <XXCoder> malcom2073: bit curious why
[16:27:06] <XXCoder> *must lot stronger
[16:27:15] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: 1-way with the g540 works great now
[16:27:15] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I haven't a clue, just echoing the bs I've been fed
[16:27:25] <XXCoder> ok
[16:27:32] <malcom2073> But, it seems to match reality in terms of what I've seen in the world actually working
[16:27:51] <malcom2073> My dads mill has 1200oz/in, and it's slightly smaller than my mill, and he says he can stall them if he pushes them too hard
[16:27:51] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: But reversal looks interesting :)
[16:30:58] <Tom_itx> it wasn't ideal but it works
[16:38:50] <XXCoder> malcom2073: almost all site talk about upgrade from steppers to servo
[16:38:57] <XXCoder> and menions boost of power
[16:39:00] <malcom2073> hmm
[16:39:10] <XXCoder> I guess design generates more troque for given power or something
[16:39:11] <malcom2073> Boost of power capability, or power requirements?
[16:39:41] <XXCoder> "When you upgrade to a servo system, the output torque capacity at higher speeds opens up dramatically. "
[16:39:48] <XXCoder> http://www.controldesign.com/articles/2015/is-a-stepper-or-servo-best-for-torque-optimization/
[16:40:00] <XXCoder> increased accuracy and repeatability
[16:40:02] <malcom2073> Well that's just logic, servos don't have the torque dropoff that steppers do
[16:40:18] <malcom2073> Has nothing to do with actual relative power levels
[16:40:42] <XXCoder> rest oif article talks about varous differences
[16:40:56] <XXCoder> one of em servo dont change with changing envorment - like heat
[16:41:05] <zeeshan> malcom2073: youre right
[16:41:09] <zeeshan> if you compare stepper vs servo:
[16:41:33] <zeeshan> wait
[16:41:38] <zeeshan> i was looking at a shitty graph
[16:41:38] <zeeshan> lol
[16:42:22] <zeeshan> http://www.ajaxcnc.com/images/servo%20stepper%20torque.jpg
[16:42:24] <zeeshan> so maybe not.
[16:42:40] <XXCoder> malcom2073: bunch of stepper postives too. like way less setup due to tuning servos. and of course much lekss lost
[16:42:47] <zeeshan> i dont remember anymore
[16:42:54] <zeeshan> but i think servo stayed fairly flat
[16:42:59] <zeeshan> while stepper drops significantly
[16:42:59] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Interesting
[16:43:26] <XXCoder> I guess 3x means it would extend out futher
[16:43:31] <zeeshan> at the end of the day its best to prolly compare the servo you're looking at
[16:43:31] <zeeshan> vs stepper
[16:43:33] <zeeshan> and compare
[16:43:40] <XXCoder> probably enough
[16:43:41] <zeeshan> sometimes those torque ratings are a whole load of shit
[16:43:46] <zeeshan> its kinda like when you compare cars
[16:43:51] <zeeshan> you can say my car has 600 hp
[16:44:04] <zeeshan> but if it only happens for 100 rpm, vs a car that does it for 2000 rpm
[16:44:12] <zeeshan> which car will be faster? :-)
[16:44:24] <XXCoder> 100 rpm thats amazing low for car LOL
[16:44:30] <zeeshan> XXCoder: supra's do this
[16:44:31] <zeeshan> lol
[16:44:35] <malcom2073> Heh
[16:44:42] <malcom2073> hp is rpm dependant
[16:44:48] <malcom2073> You mean torque
[16:44:48] <XXCoder> really nevert saw ones below 600 min
[16:45:05] <zeeshan> torque is rpm dependant too
[16:45:10] <zeeshan> http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/sgtcjt/753whp-7mgte.jpg
[16:45:19] <zeeshan> here's a poopra making 750whp
[16:45:20] <malcom2073> No, I mean HP is calculated *ising* rpm
[16:45:22] <malcom2073> using*
[16:45:35] <malcom2073> from troque
[16:45:38] <malcom2073> torque*, wow
[16:45:48] <malcom2073> This laptop keyboard is kicking my ass tonight, time to start double checking myself :)
[16:46:31] <malcom2073> That first graph you posted though shows kinda the point, you need a much more powerful stepper to actually get the torque through the usable RPM range you need vs a servo
[16:46:32] <zeeshan> malcom2073: you're telling a mech eng this :(
[16:46:44] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I'm shaking my head wondering *why* I'm telling you this :-P
[16:46:48] <zeeshan> haha
[16:47:10] <zeeshan> hp is a better comparison between two things
[16:47:14] <zeeshan> because you account for motor speed in it
[16:47:17] <malcom2073> yeah
[16:47:53] <zeeshan> http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9587/chevelledyno2.jpg
[16:47:58] <zeeshan> heres a v8 dyno
[16:47:58] <zeeshan> lol
[16:48:05] <zeeshan> notice the power band
[16:50:36] <zeeshan> found it
[16:50:43] <zeeshan> http://www.anaheimautomation.com/images/servo/torquecurve/SRMD341%20Torque%20Curves%20(800x194).png
[16:50:46] <zeeshan> typical servo dyno
[16:51:22] <zeeshan> http://www.designworldonline.com/uploads/ImageGallery/apr-mc-8a.jpg
[16:51:22] <zeeshan> stepper
[16:51:27] <zeeshan> looks like the same trend to me :P
[16:51:48] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTJfGlFjkWyjgGv5YzzzFDhZFr3GBhkEBktYFLS8faPsvGGKdT
[16:51:49] <zeeshan> stepper!
[16:51:59] <zeeshan> i dunno whats what ive seen in the books
[16:52:04] <malcom2073> Yeah, but from the first graph, does it mean for the same power level, servos are more powerful?
[16:52:09] <zeeshan> higher holding torque, but more sudden drop of torque after
[16:52:18] <malcom2073> Which would follow why you see much higher rated steppers replacing low rated servos
[16:52:36] <zeeshan> yea
[16:52:50] <zeeshan> lets say you need 500 oz-in at 2000 rpm
[16:53:00] <zeeshan> you could prolly buy a 500oz-in servo
[16:53:09] <zeeshan> but you'd prolly need a 1500 oz-in stepper?
[16:53:14] <zeeshan> (random number)
[16:53:17] <malcom2073> yeah
[16:53:19] <zeeshan> because of the way the powerband is
[16:53:35] <zeeshan> this is something i see on my lathe
[16:53:42] <Tom_itx> drivers help smooth the power band somewhat
[16:53:43] <malcom2073> Well, I'm going from a 440oz/in servo to between 1200-1800oz/in stepper (depending onwhich one I go with), so it should be plenty fine
[16:53:44] <zeeshan> im limited to 100ipm with the 1200oz-in steppers
[16:53:47] <malcom2073> I don't run high speed
[16:54:10] <zeeshan> yea youll be more than fine i'd think
[16:54:26] <zeeshan> if i can do 100 ipm with no special hardware
[16:54:38] <zeeshan> w/ a 1200oz-in stepper, im sure you can too
[16:54:46] <zeeshan> it'll do 120ipm but it skips steps sometimes
[16:54:48] <malcom2073> I'm not concerned about speed
[16:54:53] <zeeshan> you should be!
[16:55:10] <zeeshan> if you want the freedom to choose whatever tool you want
[16:55:17] <zeeshan> realize, there are minimum speeds you gotta hit
[16:55:31] <malcom2073> I'm not going to be doing anything high speed
[16:55:38] <zeeshan> you aint getting me
[16:55:43] <zeeshan> if you want to run a carbide face mill
[16:55:47] <zeeshan> you gotta run it at 100 ipm!!
[16:55:53] <zeeshan> to get a decent surface finish
[16:56:00] <zeeshan> but if youre running a fly cutter, you can get away with slower
[16:56:04] <malcom2073> Well then I can take really shallow cuts
[16:56:10] <malcom2073> so I don't need the torque!
[16:56:15] <zeeshan> haha
[16:56:17] <malcom2073> :P
[16:56:23] <zeeshan> i think you'll be fine
[16:56:25] <malcom2073> It's CNC man, who the hell cares ifI have to make 10cuts
[16:56:30] <zeeshan> you will man
[16:56:34] <zeeshan> if youre doing serious jobs
[16:56:35] <malcom2073> The joys of not being production
[16:56:44] <malcom2073> I'm not doing this for money, or for production at all
[16:56:57] <zeeshan> malcom2073: i dont get why you're buying steppers
[16:57:00] <zeeshan> when you already got servos?
[16:57:05] <zeeshan> youre making a really big mistake
[16:57:18] <malcom2073> Worst case is pretty bad.
[16:57:18] <zeeshan> you said you already ahve servo drives?
[16:57:34] <malcom2073> Worst case: I buy a power supply for my servos, hook it up, the drives are all bad. I have to buy three new drives, at $150 each used
[16:57:46] <malcom2073> Do that, and it turns out a few servos are bad since they didn't survive being outside
[16:57:53] <malcom2073> So I have to buy some servos (at about $150 each used)
[16:58:06] <zeeshan> you can do these tests
[16:58:08] <zeeshan> like idid before hand
[16:58:15] <zeeshan> servos are very easy to test to see if theyre good or bad
[16:58:19] <zeeshan> without any fancy equipment
[16:58:22] <furrywolf> grrrr. I know I have a spare subaru alternator somewhere, but I can't find it!
[16:58:25] <zeeshan> grab a 12v battery and see if it spins
[16:58:35] <zeeshan> measure the resistance between the case and the power leads of the servo
[16:58:43] <zeeshan> spin the servo by hand and measure the voltage
[16:59:08] <zeeshan> the servo drives are really your only hit and miss
[16:59:49] <zeeshan> malcom2073: i sold my servo drives on ebay for 800~
[17:00:02] <zeeshan> and bought universal servo drives to replace em
[17:00:09] <zeeshan> i sold it "as is"
[17:00:13] <zeeshan> cause i didnt have a clue if they were ok or not
[17:00:28] <zeeshan> if i coulda certified they were okay, i coulda sold em for $1200
[17:00:30] <zeeshan> maybe you can do the same?
[17:01:03] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-BE25A20IE-/321836257853?hash=item4aeeef923d
[17:01:05] <zeeshan> you can buy these for cheap
[17:02:01] <furrywolf> it was with some car parts on the front porch, then I cleaned them up, and now it's... vaporized?
[17:02:50] <XXCoder> 5 finger discount by someone else maybe
[17:03:51] <furrywolf> I have the feeling I put it somewhere clever.
[17:04:05] <furrywolf> somewhere that I knew would be obvious and easy to find later.
[17:04:14] <XXCoder> or inside car? ;) jk
[17:04:41] <zeeshan> malcom2073: i need to go now, but maybe when i come back later we can work out the actual cost
[17:04:44] <zeeshan> of getting your machine running
[17:04:54] <zeeshan> while minimizing risk
[17:05:04] <zeeshan> on servos vs steppers
[17:07:00] <malcom2073> zeeshan: I'll start doing some research
[17:07:02] <malcom2073> and links
[17:08:59] <malcom2073> Heh
[17:09:06] <malcom2073> That's actually not a terrible idea
[17:09:09] <malcom2073> sell the servos to fund the stepper setup
[17:09:24] <malcom2073> I have an oscilloscope, so I can test the servo tacho output too
[17:09:48] <XXCoder> just still not sure why you wanna fob em off
[17:09:59] <XXCoder> when it works
[17:10:37] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Risk vs reward. They sat outside for a year, covered, but still exposed.
[17:10:53] <XXCoder> do a rebuild?
[17:11:03] <malcom2073> The electronics too
[17:11:05] <XXCoder> since its covered its probably largely fine
[17:11:24] <XXCoder> besides metal oxide electrics is largely immune to water as long as not powered
[17:11:37] <XXCoder> you could take your pc motherboard and wash it in water
[17:11:44] <XXCoder> just be very sure its dry
[17:11:55] <XXCoder> *before install and use
[17:12:08] <malcom2073> It's more corrosion from moisture that worries me. I need to pull the drivers out, take them apart, and see if they *look* ok
[17:12:39] <malcom2073> Hmm, I wonder if I can power them with a low current supply for test. I have a 800w 80VDC psu
[17:12:41] <malcom2073> just current limit them
[17:13:32] <furrywolf> current limiting will only protect against major faults with the power circuitry, not melting logic bits.
[17:13:40] <furrywolf> if you do want to do that, a light bulb in series works quite well.
[17:13:41] <furrywolf> bbl
[17:14:46] <malcom2073> If it melts logic bits due to faults, that's gonna happen, and I'd rather it happen during test
[17:15:01] <malcom2073> But it would allow me to run tests and see if the logic was all there
[17:16:52] <XXCoder> nice
[17:17:00] <XXCoder> wonder if logi boards are buyablke
[17:17:18] <malcom2073> The drivers are $150 each used on ebay
[17:18:24] <SpeedEvil> Silly question. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-82mm-CARBIDE-PLANER-BLADES-to-fit-Black-Decker-Bosch-DeWalt-Elu-planes-/151420076501?hash=item23415701d5
[17:18:40] <SpeedEvil> What happens if I try to cut this (clamped) with an angle grinder with a diamond blade
[17:18:56] <SpeedEvil> is the blade promptly destroyed, or does it sort-of-wor
[17:18:57] <SpeedEvil> k
[17:22:32] <Tom_itx> if you're careful it should work
[17:22:39] <Tom_itx> carbide is quite brittle
[17:28:30] <malcom2073> So... where would I even find a 80-90VDC high power power supply? Like, 1KW
[17:29:13] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: for what?
[17:29:27] <SpeedEvil> And does it need to be isolated.
[17:29:32] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: Powering servomotors
[17:29:41] <Tom_itx> how big are microwave supplies?
[17:29:56] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: the silly suggestion is 7 12V batteries
[17:30:00] <malcom2073> hehe
[17:30:05] <malcom2073> Be good for testing, but I don't have that many laying around
[17:30:47] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: what is your mains voltage?
[17:30:58] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: 110v, so can't regulate that, my drives can only take 100V peak
[17:31:22] <malcom2073> But a transformer/regulator to drop it down to 70 would probably work
[17:31:48] <SpeedEvil> For ~70V out, if you could find a centre-tapped isolation transformer, and simply put the secondaries in series, not parallel, then that'd work.
[17:31:53] <SpeedEvil> parallel, not series
[17:32:07] <SpeedEvil> And a Beeeg bridge rectifier + fan + cap
[17:32:51] <malcom2073> There is a 230->72V 1kw transformer inside my mill enclosure right now, but it doesn't work with center tap 220v
[17:33:54] <SpeedEvil> Why not?
[17:33:58] <XXCoder> my most favorite scene https://youtu.be/r-YjmXt15sg
[17:34:09] <XXCoder> just the sheer funny amount
[17:36:04] <malcom2073> http://www.antekinc.com/ps-15n80-1500w-80v-power-supply/
[17:36:05] <malcom2073> That'd do it
[17:36:20] <malcom2073> SpeedEvil: Erm... good question
[17:36:31] <malcom2073> Now thatI think about it, it's a transformer, it doesn't matter does it?
[17:37:12] <malcom2073> Ah yes it will
[17:37:29] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: Well - i mean - it depends how it's grounded - but I suspect it wouldn't be impossible to rewire
[17:38:00] <malcom2073> Wait, no it won't
[17:38:02] <malcom2073> wait, my head hurts
[17:40:05] <malcom2073> Well worst case, if I can't reuse the power electronics in this box,$227 isn't terrible
[17:41:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[17:42:10] <SpeedEvil> If you disconnect the ground wire from the machine and have the two hots going in - there is no possible way it can't work
[17:42:19] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[17:42:31] <SpeedEvil> (don't do this)
[17:42:40] <malcom2073> haha
[17:43:24] <Jymmm> The orange stuff is "sealant" isn't it? http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/tim/100357/image/4/
[17:43:33] <malcom2073> I'm thinking, if the transformer is fully isolated (Which it should be), then it should be fine. It doesn't care where your ground reference is, as long as it has the 220 dedicated to it, going to nthing else
[17:43:42] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073: yeah
[17:44:00] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I always figured it was paint
[17:44:16] <malcom2073> Since those parts are press fit, it doesn't matter if you scratch them up
[17:44:52] <Jymmm> malcom2073: feels "rubberish"; I'm watching a R&R video and he was talking about "removing the old sealant", so I wasn't sure.
[17:45:06] <malcom2073> Jymmm: transmission rear seal?
[17:45:10] <malcom2073> Or timing cover?
[17:45:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073: left rear axle seal
[17:45:29] <malcom2073> Hmm
[17:45:32] * malcom2073 shrugs
[17:45:39] <malcom2073> I'd never had mine leak, I've probably done 10 of them
[17:45:51] <malcom2073> Just clean the hole it goes into real well, and press it in (wood block method works okish)
[17:45:55] <malcom2073> 10 of that style seal
[17:45:59] <malcom2073> not specifically axle seals
[17:46:03] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Mine is 2001 but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWhfvTfvCGw
[17:46:32] <Jymmm> malcom2073: 18m, but you can skip to the "oh I get it now" parts =)
[17:46:44] <Jymmm> apx 7m24s
[17:47:03] <malcom2073> Yeah looks the same
[17:47:22] <malcom2073> I'd say clean the hole really well, ensure none of the old paint/sealant is left
[17:47:28] <Jymmm> malcom2073: btw, I have nfc what I'm doin
[17:47:33] <malcom2073> haha
[17:47:35] <malcom2073> You'll be fine
[17:47:44] <malcom2073> Big thing is: Don't get it cocked sideways when going in
[17:47:51] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Well, it's not the cleanup, it's the do I need to replace the sealant
[17:48:08] <malcom2073> sealant being the orange stuff? No.
[17:48:26] <Jymmm> I'm GUESSING the orange stuff is sealant
[17:48:45] <malcom2073> Where does he say that?
[17:48:58] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Thanks on the dont get it crooked part.
[17:49:09] <Jymmm> he doesn't, thats the problem =)
[17:49:24] <malcom2073> Hah, don't worry about it. That kind of seal is sealed due to the press fit, and soft material
[17:49:30] <Jymmm> He removed old sealant, but doens't tlaking about replacing it
[17:49:38] <Jymmm> ok cool
[17:50:07] <malcom2073> If you can't get it in without it cocking, throw it in the freezer for an hour and have a beer
[17:50:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073: I hope you understand where I was getting at.... 1) remove old sealant 2) no talki about replacing sealant 3) Ummmm
[17:50:35] <malcom2073> Yeah. My guess is, he's talking about removing the orange stuff that the old one left behind
[17:50:51] <malcom2073> I've never heard it explicitly referred to as sealant
[17:50:53] <Jymmm> that came withon the original seal
[17:50:57] <malcom2073> But the seal is rubber
[17:51:04] <Jymmm> (just one of those implied things)
[17:51:06] <malcom2073> yeah
[17:51:15] <Jymmm> =)
[17:51:40] <Jymmm> I'm like.... Um, nobody tells you these tyhings, ESPECIALLY the box the seal came in
[17:52:09] <malcom2073> Lol
[17:52:20] <Jymmm> I have $40 in synthetic gear oil I dont want to waste by fucking anything up
[17:52:24] <malcom2073> Haha
[17:52:38] <Tom_itx> use the cheap stuff
[17:52:40] <Jymmm> $14/qt x3
[17:52:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: calls for synthetic only
[17:53:19] <Tom_itx> are they special gears?
[17:53:33] <malcom2073> "I have special gears!" (eyes)
[17:53:41] <Jymmm> 2001 Ford Expedition 2WD
[17:53:45] <Tom_itx> synthetic is thinner giving better mileage i bet is the only reason
[17:53:54] <malcom2073> Oh nice, I have a 2004 42d
[17:54:02] <malcom2073> 4wd*. I need to replace my diff gasket soon
[17:54:20] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Well, watch that video I guess
[17:54:36] <malcom2073> Haha, indeed, though 2001 is a different generation, should be similar
[17:54:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: nfc
[17:55:01] <Jymmm> malcom2073: that video is 2012, I'm HOPING it's what's in mine
[17:55:12] <malcom2073> Hahaha
[17:55:23] <Jymmm> the bearing looks right...
[17:55:25] <malcom2073> The idea behind an axle seal replacement isn't difficult
[17:55:27] <Jymmm> the seal does too
[17:55:33] <malcom2073> So probably very similar
[17:55:45] <Jymmm> Yeah, that's what I figured.
[17:56:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: youre probably right, but no idea
[17:56:46] <Jymmm> malcom2073: There are 58 photos I uploaded... http://imgur.com/a/JltUl#25
[17:57:08] <malcom2073> Ohh yeah I remember that
[17:57:13] <malcom2073> you posted about that a day or two ago
[17:58:39] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Yeah, when I went to do the right side brakes yesterday, I found out I reversed the pads. So when I pulled off the left side, I found the parking brak wshoes soaked in smelly oil
[17:58:49] <malcom2073> Joys
[17:59:16] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Well, if I didn't make that small mistake, I would have never pulled out the left side tire
[17:59:28] <malcom2073> Heh, needed to be done anyway though
[17:59:34] <Jymmm> and I would have never seen the shoes soaked
[17:59:49] <malcom2073> Oh man
[17:59:51] <malcom2073> that'd be bad
[17:59:55] <malcom2073> You have drums?
[17:59:56] <Jymmm> No no, I already DID the left side brakes.
[18:00:03] <malcom2073> No, I mean the seal
[18:00:10] <Jymmm> hybrid.... pads for brakes, shoes for parking brake
[18:00:16] <malcom2073> Ah ok
[18:00:39] <Jymmm> See, I thought all that goo was leaking brake fluid
[18:00:47] <Jymmm> from a bad caliper
[18:01:04] <Jymmm> it didn't smell at all at that time.
[18:01:23] <malcom2073> yeah
[18:01:28] <Jymmm> but the new shoes that are now soaked in oil have that funk smell
[18:01:41] <malcom2073> Ahhh yeah that funky smell, gotta love that
[18:01:50] <Jymmm> but since it's synthetic, not as bad of smell
[18:03:13] <Jymmm> Alright, I guess I have all the parts I need, heading under
[18:03:27] <Tom_itx> come back up for air
[18:04:21] <Tom_itx> pulled apart a jensen tranny once that was filled with whale oil... talk about smelly
[18:29:30] <jdh> is that like a Jenner tranny?
[18:30:16] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Do you think a 42 oz/in constant torque, 230 oz/in peak torque servo would perform equally with a 166 oz/in stepper
[18:31:45] <Tom_itx> jdh :(
[18:32:24] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i'm not that familiar with servos but i would think so. you may / will have to gear it down
[18:33:03] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Wouls you think it would it need to be geared down due to the speed or to increase the torque?
[18:33:19] <Tom_itx> both
[18:33:35] <Tom_itx> the torque is probably there
[18:35:38] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: I thought you could just make it go slower by running it slower?
[18:38:57] <Tom_itx> most of the servo conversions i've seen had reduction
[18:39:47] <Topy44> helloes
[18:40:20] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: The one that imsrv sells has reduction, but it has a belt internally (which I don't like). The one super-tech sells is direct with no gearing
[18:40:26] <Topy44> anyone in the US around that feels like helping me out? i want to get a book which is available cheap on amazon.com but the seller does not ship it to europe
[18:40:32] <os1r1s> I was hoping to get away without it
[18:40:39] <Topy44> i'll pay in advance
[18:41:25] <Topy44> or does anyone have a pdf of it around by any chance? i am looking for "Design and Application of Small Standardized Components - Stock Drive Parts Data Book 757" by Frank Buchsbaum
[18:42:34] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Design-Application-Small-Standardized-Components/dp/0960987819
[18:42:54] <Tom_itx> uk source
[18:44:25] <Topy44> right. still doesn't ship to germany.
[18:44:30] <Topy44> its the same seller in fact
[18:44:34] <Topy44> apparently he ships to the uk
[18:44:43] <Topy44> but that makes things easier already :)
[20:13:26] <just_pink> mornning :)
[20:18:11] <XXCoder> hey
[20:20:42] <just_pink> hi XXCoder
[20:21:23] <just_pink> I did some adjustment to the gib yesterday
[20:29:13] <XXCoder> yeah? tightened it up yet still smoothly slide?
[21:10:26] <Wolf_Mill> just_pink: So, did adjusting it help any?
[21:13:42] <just_pink> Wolf_Mill: i dont know yet.. I'm cutting now stock material to try it.
[21:13:52] <Wolf_Mill> grr I'm still getting latency warnings
[21:15:59] <XXCoder> thats weird
[21:16:51] <Wolf_Mill> 6x glxgears windows running, youtube playing, way too many web tabs and its sitting at 11309
[21:17:44] <XXCoder> I need to test my laptop lol
[21:17:58] <Wolf_Mill> unless the screensaver caused it
[21:18:06] <XXCoder> probably latacy of very big number or tiny, either way thats bad lol
[21:18:14] <XXCoder> I'd suggest use blank screensaver
[21:19:02] <Wolf_Mill> proabably a good idea
[21:19:12] <Wolf_Mill> right now its set to random lol
[21:19:30] <XXCoder> or pick one that does NOT use graphic card
[21:19:35] <XXCoder> say stars
[21:19:53] <XXCoder> (graphic card in major way anyway)
[21:20:23] <Wolf_Mill> vid card in this thing probably has more cpu then the main unit
[21:24:54] <Wolf_Mill> I did manage to get my joypad pendent working :D
[21:26:23] <Wolf_Mill> I REALLY want to mount these steppers but still waiting on the standoffs to arrive :/
[21:26:36] <XXCoder> nice. yeah the wait is annoying
[21:27:04] <Wolf_Mill> got the drivers and bob wired up all nice
[21:30:24] <Wolf_Mill> http://i.imgur.com/4vheEFS.jpg
[21:30:43] <XXCoder> nice
[21:30:55] <XXCoder> you got drivers which is nice
[21:31:03] <XXCoder> mines just basic controller board
[21:31:05] <XXCoder> cheao
[21:31:30] <Wolf_Mill> 65% of the reason I got this kit, DM542 drivers
[21:33:07] <Wolf_Mill> steppers are probably 2x the torque I need lol
[21:33:19] <XXCoder> lol nice
[21:33:37] <XXCoder> one I got http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Axis-Nema23-Stepping-Motor-110N-cm-3-0A-4wire-board-TB6560-Power-for-CMC-mill-/281188392513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4178225e41
[21:38:10] <Wolf_Mill> lol same seller, my kit http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Ship-Free-Ship-to-US-3Axis-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-Dual-Shaft-425ozin-CNC-Mill-/280912775664
[21:38:28] <XXCoder> not bad indeed
[21:39:11] <XXCoder> my motors much weaker
[21:39:17] <XXCoder> 156 oz/in approx
[21:40:24] <Wolf_Mill> was $247 when I got it
[21:41:02] <Wolf_Mill> I'll probably end up putting smaller steppers on the mill later
[21:43:52] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Those amplifiers you linked are A: brushless, and B: too small. My servos are 135V/5.2A, but the drives they currently have are 92V/15A. A 24v/25A drive won't spin them fast enough I think
[21:44:16] <zeeshan> ??
[21:44:37] <zeeshan> they 12.5A continuous current
[21:44:42] <zeeshan> more than you need for your servos
[21:44:47] <malcom2073> But what voltage?
[21:44:52] <zeeshan> 40-190 vdc
[21:45:00] <malcom2073> Oh
[21:45:02] <malcom2073> I misunderstood
[21:45:04] <zeeshan> btw
[21:45:06] <malcom2073> For $44? Hell.
[21:45:08] <zeeshan> im more than likely buying those
[21:45:08] <zeeshan> lol
[21:45:12] <zeeshan> i contacted the seller :P
[21:45:13] <malcom2073> Haha they're brushless
[21:45:18] <malcom2073> But they sell used brushed ones too
[21:45:19] <zeeshan> no theyre not
[21:45:29] <malcom2073> The one you linked me earlier was
[21:45:38] <zeeshan> i use those exact drives in my mill right now
[21:45:45] <zeeshan> driving brush motors
[21:45:46] <malcom2073> [17:37:53] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-BE25A20IE-/321836257853?hash=item4aeeef923d
[21:45:46] <malcom2073> [17:37:55] <zeeshan> you can buy these for cheap
[21:45:48] <zeeshan> they can do all 3 types
[21:45:50] <malcom2073> even the link says brushless
[21:45:57] <zeeshan> read the spec sheet man
[21:46:02] <malcom2073> It has A/B/C outputs! :P
[21:46:03] <zeeshan> not some silly ebay ad
[21:46:04] <zeeshan> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be25a20.pdf
[21:46:12] <zeeshan> yea you only use a and b
[21:46:13] <zeeshan> for brush
[21:46:37] <malcom2073> Why wouldn't I buy one that is actually intended for brushed? Are they worse?
[21:46:45] <zeeshan> cause these are cheap
[21:46:50] <zeeshan> and they can work with 3 different servo typos
[21:46:52] <zeeshan> types
[21:46:54] <malcom2073> Heh
[21:46:55] <zeeshan> so if your servos blew up
[21:47:00] <zeeshan> youd not be limited to 1 type of servo
[21:47:01] <zeeshan> its a win win
[21:47:10] <malcom2073> So I sell my servo drives on ebay for $150 tested each, and buy a set of these, moeny left over
[21:47:20] <malcom2073> Assuming my servos don't die
[21:47:22] <zeeshan> i think you can get way more money for your drives
[21:47:28] <zeeshan> what type of control is it
[21:47:34] <zeeshan> and drives
[21:48:07] <malcom2073> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=sd1525-10&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
[21:48:09] <malcom2073> You're right, I can get more
[21:48:20] <malcom2073> Those are "sold" listings
[21:49:10] <zeeshan> i brb in 30min
[21:49:12] <zeeshan> gotta eat
[21:49:15] <zeeshan> can discuss more if youre aroujnd
[21:49:21] <zeeshan> ill show you what i did, why i did it and how much it cost
[21:49:23] <malcom2073> Nah I'm heading to bed
[21:49:27] <zeeshan> ok tommo then
[21:49:28] <zeeshan> cya!
[21:49:29] <malcom2073> I'll catch up with you tomorrow or later
[21:49:42] <Wolf_Mill> what are these $44 servo dirvers? linky pls
[21:49:53] <malcom2073> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-BE25A20IE-/321836257853?hash=item4aeeef923d
[21:49:55] <malcom2073> Wolf_Mill: ^^
[21:50:30] <zeeshan> you can buy that one
[21:50:34] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-BE25A20IE-INV-/221858983632?hash=item33a7d36ed0
[21:50:36] <zeeshan> i just bought this one
[21:52:53] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otfgENmTrhE
[21:53:01] <XXCoder> someone actually did it. crazy.
[22:00:46] <XXCoder> jeez they even did buzz's refection in helmet thing
[22:03:56] <cradek> their version is better
[22:06:31] <XXCoder> wonder how they will do later scenes like toy restorer guy
[22:06:57] <XXCoder> because its full movie
[22:07:55] <XXCoder> jezz that mean trick by woody has buzz default smile look somehow very mean smile :P
[22:17:03] <XXCoder> whoa
[22:17:26] <XXCoder> the gas station scenes is very close. wonder how they got a semi. lol
[22:53:22] <Jymmm> Well, got the axle seal out.
[22:54:32] <Jymmm> There seems to be some gouges in the seal seat, is it better to try to buff them smooth or leave as is?
[22:54:50] <Jymmm> http://i.imgur.com/9uCU0EW.jpg
[22:55:20] <Tom_itx> stuff the new seal in
[22:55:23] <Jymmm> Especially the one at about 1oclock
[22:55:32] <Tom_itx> be done with it
[22:55:50] <zeeshan> Jymmm:
[22:55:53] <zeeshan> if you can stone them
[22:55:58] <zeeshan> so the burr isn't raised
[22:55:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, I don't want to do a half ass job, just to do it over again
[22:56:01] <zeeshan> then take some rtv
[22:56:09] <zeeshan> and put it around the periphery of the seal
[22:56:11] <zeeshan> and then put it in
[22:56:12] <zeeshan> and youll be ok
[22:56:14] <Jymmm> zeeshan: scotchbright pad?
[22:56:18] <Tom_itx> no
[22:56:20] <Tom_itx> a stone
[22:56:25] <Tom_itx> hone
[22:56:31] <Tom_itx> that would be ok
[22:56:34] <zeeshan> stone or 1000 grit sand paper
[22:56:35] <Tom_itx> i approve :D
[22:56:38] <zeeshan> only focus on the area
[22:56:42] <zeeshan> where the issue is
[22:56:49] <Tom_itx> just knock the bump off
[22:56:51] <zeeshan> don't go superman
[22:56:52] <zeeshan> yes
[22:57:04] <Jymmm> zeeshan: there are a few of them - see pic
[22:57:16] <Tom_itx> better get busy then
[22:57:17] <zeeshan> yes
[22:57:26] <zeeshan> Jymmm: you gotta knock em all down
[22:57:31] <zeeshan> someone went crazy with a screw driver
[22:57:40] <Tom_itx> why did you pry it out with a screwdriver anyway?
[22:57:44] <Tom_itx> hah
[22:57:45] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Not me
[22:57:54] <Jymmm> I use a crow bar =)
[22:58:42] <Jymmm> I used a 3ft crowbar and made sure not to mar anything
[22:59:01] <Tom_itx> someone's been there before you then
[22:59:02] <XXCoder> crowbar is marring by default
[22:59:13] <XXCoder> I think anyway lol
[22:59:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I suspect that's what cause the seal failure *shrug*
[22:59:38] <Tom_itx> make sure you drop grit in the bearings too
[22:59:47] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i doubt it
[23:00:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I was thinkking industrial diamonds
[23:02:07] <Jymmm> Honestly though, I knew better than to fuck up the seal ways, I really was careful with the crowbar 0 the screwdriver just bent anyway
[23:02:43] <Jymmm> you guys never use scotchbright pads?
[23:02:50] <Tom_itx> yes but not on that
[23:02:58] <Jymmm> too abrasive?
[23:03:04] <Tom_itx> probably have 3 or 4 grits of them
[23:03:09] <Jymmm> the green kitchen ones
[23:03:20] <Tom_itx> won't cut the way you need to on that
[23:03:39] <Tom_itx> won't flatten the bump like a hone would
[23:03:49] <Wolf_Mill> flat file, knock any byrs down imo
[23:03:52] <Jymmm> I dont have a done
[23:04:04] <Jymmm> hone*
[23:04:18] <Jymmm> I might have some wet/dry sandpaper
[23:04:19] <Tom_itx> ever sharpen your pocket knife?
[23:04:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yes, I use a diamond rod
[23:05:03] <Tom_itx> won't fit in the seal area?
[23:05:07] <Wolf_Mill> oh, wait, thats the seal side
[23:05:27] <Wolf_Mill> just hammer the new one in
[23:05:30] <Tom_itx> if you use paper, back it up with something
[23:05:45] <Tom_itx> that's what i said at first
[23:05:48] <Tom_itx> he didn't buy that
[23:06:15] <Wolf_Mill> I've seen axle seal seats in worse shape then that
[23:06:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It might fit but too rigid to hone smoothly. I can back the sandpaper, what grit?
[23:06:49] <Tom_itx> 600
[23:06:52] <Tom_itx> ish
[23:07:01] <Jymmm> I have up to 2000 iirc
[23:07:07] <Tom_itx> too fine
[23:07:10] <Jymmm> k
[23:07:18] <Tom_itx> you're not polishing glass
[23:07:32] <Wolf_Mill> I wouldnt sand it
[23:07:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: (as much grief as a $7 dumb seal has caused, might as well be)
[23:07:50] <Tom_itx> it'll make him feel better
[23:08:19] <Jymmm> What, leave it as is? Just add extra RTV ?
[23:08:24] <Wolf_Mill> well, dont sand the piss out of it
[23:08:26] <Tom_itx> not much extra
[23:08:37] <Tom_itx> it'll just ooze out inside and get in the bearings
[23:08:38] <Wolf_Mill> no rtv it will end up in the bearings
[23:09:02] <Jymmm> So honestly, just leave it as is?
[23:09:05] <Tom_itx> if anything put a finger applied thin layer on the seal itself
[23:09:07] <Wolf_Mill> seal is soft metal and a press fit
[23:09:11] <Tom_itx> most of it will stay outside that way
[23:09:19] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i would
[23:09:37] <Tom_itx> the seal has rubber around it
[23:09:50] <Tom_itx> if it were a metal pressed seal that may be a different story
[23:10:13] <Tom_itx> gnite
[23:10:15] <Wolf_Mill> should be metal pressed in to the axle
[23:10:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ok, I'll take your word for it.
[23:10:51] <Wolf_Mill> have any HSS lathe bits?
[23:10:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'll add a super thin later of rtv on the seal
[23:11:14] <Jymmm> Wolf_Mill: one
[23:11:19] <Tom_itx> that's really more to lube it than anything
[23:11:34] <Wolf_Mill> use it like a scraper to knock the burrs down
[23:11:42] <Wolf_Mill> hammer seal in, done
[23:11:52] <Tom_itx> those marks aren't that bad
[23:12:18] <Jymmm> The one at 1oclock seem to be the worse
[23:12:41] * Tom_itx took his watch off hours ago
[23:13:17] <Jymmm> Ok, thanks folks, appreciate the help.
[23:14:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: oh wait, I do have a tiny (1"x3") honing stone
[23:14:28] <Jymmm> not sure if I can find it after the move.
[23:14:35] <Jymmm> bbl
[23:27:29] <zeeshan> pcw_home: when is thcad going to be avail
[23:27:30] <zeeshan> i need
[23:29:48] <Wolf_Mill> hmm, oversight on my part... any suggestions on cam programs?
[23:49:32] <Wolf_Mill> score http://amzn.com/B006M706CW 2x for $6.60 each =)
[23:52:20] <XXCoder> out of stock it says now
[23:52:36] <Wolf_Mill> yeah I got the last 2 sorry lol
[23:54:23] <XXCoder> np dont need it lol
[23:54:31] <XXCoder> congats btw
[23:55:24] <Wolf_Mill> get lucky sometimes looking at slow moving items on amazon, reg price was $26 each
[23:55:40] <XXCoder> just finished watching real toys toy stories movie
[23:55:45] <XXCoder> funny one
[23:56:01] <XXCoder> some effects is quite crappy but then yopu dont want dog to run across busy street for example
[23:56:08] <XXCoder> while some I am amazed