#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-21

[01:23:45] <pingufan> Good morning. I am milling plastic enclosures. In one project I had to mill letters entirely through the material, then close them with transparent laminate for backlighting. The problem are loose parts (i.e. the inner of an "o". So I am looking for a font (ttf preferred, as Cut2D can process them) with short sticks remaining between inner and outer material.
[01:23:58] <pingufan> Hope I could explain good enough what I need.
[01:24:17] <zeeshan> what cam are you using?
[01:24:22] <zeeshan> a lot of them have the fonts built in
[01:24:24] <zeeshan> for this sort
[01:24:43] <Wolf_> why not bond the laminate to the back first?
[01:25:26] <pingufan> I use Cut2D. It has some fonts, but noone has this bridges. I can use them for engraving, but not for milling through.
[01:25:39] <archivist> google for a stencil font
[01:27:37] <pingufan> Wolf_: How shall this work? I have to entirely mill through material, and I have to mill from rear side. So I cannot put a tape on front side and keep it intact while entirely get through the plastic everywhere.
[01:29:45] <pingufan> archivist: Thanks for this hint. I didn't know what to search for. :)
[01:29:49] <Wolf_> oh, you are laminatign the front over the letters…
[01:30:02] <zeeshan> man i just got done with cam programming this handle
[01:30:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NrGq6El.jpg
[01:30:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/V8JR0y4.jpg
[01:30:27] <zeeshan> its crazy how easily the tool paths were generated
[01:30:29] <zeeshan> took about 2 hours
[01:30:36] <zeeshan> mostly cause im a noob :P
[01:30:46] <zeeshan> i was making a silly mistake inthe type of 3d tool path
[01:30:51] <zeeshan> (and optimizing)
[01:31:05] <zeeshan> ~2-3 hour machining time
[01:31:21] <Wolf_> that looks (un)fun
[01:31:37] <archivist> way too slow
[01:32:28] <zeeshan> archivist: actual cam time says 1hr 20 min
[01:32:35] <zeeshan> but setup etc
[01:32:38] <zeeshan> i predict 3 hours ~
[01:32:42] <pingufan> Wolf_: The plastic part is 3mm thick and black material, therefore I cannot backlight it. So I have to entirely mill through it in first step. Then I put a adhesive tape on the front side and pour in clear and transparent resin/laminate from rear side. Works well, but it was no fun to draw every letter manually.
[01:32:43] <zeeshan> unless i get a 4th axis
[01:33:05] <zeeshan> i got the 1/4" ball nose programmed at 20 ipm feed, 10ipm plunge
[01:33:11] <archivist> 4th axis and a fast spindle
[01:33:24] <zeeshan> archivist: im hooking up a router to my machine
[01:33:28] <zeeshan> router spindle
[01:33:42] <zeeshan> but i feel like at 80ipm, i might not be able to evac chips fast enough
[01:34:41] <zeeshan> can optimize after ive cut the first one
[01:34:47] * zeeshan needs to decide on 4th axis
[01:35:10] <pingufan> Does somebody know a good G-Code emulator for SuSE LINUX (rpm)? Actually I want to load the generated G-Code file and then simulate the milling process on screen. Currently I run linuxCNC in virtualbox (because it runs on Ubuntu and I use SuSE), but this is a little heavy.
[01:35:43] <archivist> look at openscam
[01:36:08] <pingufan> This crazy guys only made a .deb package. :/
[01:36:24] <archivist> use the source
[01:37:44] <pingufan> I stopped doing that years ago. It always ended in endless dependency issues. Therefore I prefer pre-compiled binaries in rpm.
[01:38:09] <archivist> you cannot be too fussy when stuff is free
[01:38:18] <zeeshan> lol
[01:38:43] <zeeshan> pingufan: imagine if you had to run windows
[01:38:44] <zeeshan> and mach3
[01:38:54] <pingufan> I know. But on other hand it can be a real odyssee sometimes
[01:39:11] <zeeshan> since it is bothering you so much
[01:39:19] <zeeshan> why dont you make a rpm for us
[01:39:26] <pingufan> I am happy to run Windows in a Window (Now it is in right place)
[01:39:32] <archivist> am I being too fussy I paid £10 for one of these (different badge) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-in1-Digital-Angle-Finder-Meter-Protractor-Goniometer-Ruler-400mm-360-Measurer-/111399895959
[01:39:41] <archivist> and its faulty!
[01:39:49] <zeeshan> archivist: how dare you buy china crap
[01:40:05] <archivist> 3 year guarantee!
[01:40:08] <zeeshan> hehe
[01:40:16] <zeeshan> was it doa?
[01:40:20] <Wolf_> I would bitch
[01:40:21] <archivist> .1 degree resolution!
[01:40:21] <zeeshan> or just stopped working after a little while
[01:40:40] <archivist> random angle but systemic errors
[01:41:04] <archivist> move it to 90 and it states 90 exactly
[01:41:45] <archivist> take it to bits and explore or return it for replacement :)
[01:42:28] <zeeshan> hehe
[01:42:33] <archivist> the brake is a crude cover then you can see the "encoder"
[01:42:39] <fenn> how do you measure small angular errors in your measuring device?
[01:42:52] <zeeshan> fenn: against a square
[01:42:57] <archivist> with an angle dekkor
[01:43:06] <Wolf_> could be worse, I have 20 of these that don’t work http://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=59&prodid=758
[01:43:21] <Rab> archivist, what's the encoder technology?
[01:43:30] <zeeshan> actually you could easily check for angle errors
[01:43:34] <zeeshan> by mounting a laser to it
[01:43:42] <zeeshan> and projecting it at a far away distance
[01:44:04] <pingufan> For sure the best way!
[01:44:16] <archivist> looks like two pcbs with a pattern (not undone that part (locktite)
[01:44:36] <Wolf_> 20… typo 2 of them
[01:45:14] <Rab> To align the laser, you'd need instruments so precise you could just use them to measure the thing directly.
[01:45:17] <archivist> but so cheap for 3600 resolution
[01:45:50] <Rab> archivist, maybe capacitive like digi calipers.
[01:46:12] <fenn> the laser method would be a relative measurement
[01:46:29] <Rab> fenn, oh, of course
[01:46:31] <fenn> measure at 0 degrees, measure at some other angle, measure the distance between the spots with tape measure
[01:46:36] <archivist> Rab, very likely but the errors sort of point at software error in the chip
[01:46:45] <zeeshan> fenn: it would work suprsingly well :P
[01:47:36] <zeeshan> man 4th axis might take too much work to implement right now
[01:47:42] <zeeshan> i could buy a rotary table and index it 90 degrees
[01:47:46] <fenn> for extra creidt use beamsplitter to cancel out the spots
[01:47:47] <zeeshan> that'd help!
[01:48:20] <fenn> you don't need a rotary table to rotate 90 degrees
[01:48:32] <zeeshan> it'd be quicker
[01:48:33] <zeeshan> than a stop and a vise
[01:48:43] <zeeshan> and ill maintain the axis of rotation
[01:48:50] <fenn> hm ok
[01:48:59] <zeeshan> so i dont have to redial the part center every time
[01:49:02] <zeeshan> you know what i mean?
[01:49:08] <fenn> yeah
[01:49:26] <fenn> i was thinking you put it in a precision toolmaker's vise
[01:49:35] <fenn> so whichever way you clamp it, it's a known distance
[01:49:42] <fenn> good enough for woodwork anyway
[01:49:45] <zeeshan> haha
[01:49:55] <pingufan> Thanks for your help with fonts. Have to leave. :)
[01:50:20] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/hamilton/12-rotary-table/1092231629?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[01:50:21] <zeeshan> OOOO
[01:50:23] <zeeshan> i just found a SEXY one
[01:50:33] <zeeshan> but its huge!
[01:50:34] <zeeshan> 12"
[01:50:35] <zeeshan> lol
[01:50:41] <fenn> not sexy at all
[01:50:52] <fenn> look like a fire hydrant
[01:50:56] <zeeshan> made in usa :)
[01:51:40] <zeeshan> too big for what i need though
[01:51:43] <zeeshan> im looking for a 6" or 8"
[01:52:21] <fenn> you want A/B axis
[01:52:30] <zeeshan> thatd be awesome :P
[01:52:45] <zeeshan> if i can stall this guy for 2 weeks
[01:52:48] <zeeshan> i can prolly build something
[01:53:54] <fenn> there's the vise i was talking about http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/hamilton/toolmaker-tools-tool-die/1096411922
[01:54:03] <zeeshan> yes i got one of those
[01:54:29] <zeeshan> my problem with building a 4th axis
[01:54:37] <zeeshan> is just like everyone elses issue
[01:54:39] <zeeshan> backlash
[01:54:46] <zeeshan> either i need a harmonic drive
[01:54:54] <zeeshan> or i run some complex belt arrangement
[01:55:04] <zeeshan> along with a brake
[01:55:31] <archivist> or it is wood and dont care
[01:55:32] <fenn> you can preload two gears or two half worm wheels against each other
[01:55:40] <zeeshan> archivist: if im building something
[01:55:42] <zeeshan> itll be for metal
[01:55:44] <zeeshan> not this crappy wood!! :P
[01:55:51] <zeeshan> fenn: those wear out
[01:55:56] <zeeshan> belts do too
[01:55:58] <zeeshan> but not at the same rate
[01:56:10] <archivist> I use unidirectional gcode to ignore backlash
[01:56:21] <fenn> ball bearing cycloid gear
[01:56:35] <zeeshan> haramonic drive is pretty sweet
[01:56:40] <zeeshan> cause you can get a 100:1 gear ratio in it
[01:56:43] <fenn> i think it's dumb
[01:56:43] <zeeshan> and its so small and compact
[01:56:48] <zeeshan> why
[01:57:00] <zeeshan> almost all top end manufacturers use a haramonic drive
[01:57:05] <zeeshan> so it's gotta be good!
[01:57:18] <fenn> you can do the same thing with a cycloid gear and it doesn't cost a bazillion dollars
[01:57:24] <fenn> also it's stronger
[01:58:03] <zeeshan> how can you do that with a cycloid gear?
[01:58:27] <zeeshan> they use them in oil pumps
[01:58:30] <zeeshan> but those rotate in 1 direction
[01:58:36] <fenn> sorry i meant cycloidal drive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycloidal_drive
[01:59:44] <zeeshan> Cycloidal drives, and similar ball reducers or rotating ball gears, have no gearing. Instead, they transmit torque through preloaded balls, rollers, or pins from one moving plate to another. These devices provide zero backlash and low noise, but need their preloads retightened in service to stay backlash-free. They operate smoothly, withstand high shock loads and vibration, and have efficiencies u
[02:01:07] <zeeshan> Flat harmonic drives are available for limited space applications. Combined with pancake motor and integrated encoder, such drives operate in robotic and automation applications, mainly for integral horsepower drives. Despite these advantages, backlash increases with wear.
[02:01:08] <zeeshan> :P
[02:03:01] <Deejay> moin
[02:28:04] <zeeshan> so take a worse case scenario -- 500lb of force that causes torsion at a distance of 4" away. (8" diameter workpiece) -- need 2000lb-in (167lb-ft, 32000oz-in) direct drive servo!
[02:28:04] <zeeshan> :P
[02:28:44] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-axis-Rotation-Axis-4th-Axis-Zero-Backlash-Harmonic-Drive-Router-CNC-3-Chuck-/161683122064
[02:28:51] <archivist> total bollocks
[02:29:55] <zeeshan> that means a typical 1200oz-in servo, that means i need a 26:1 gear ratio
[02:29:56] <zeeshan> jeez
[02:30:12] <zeeshan> archivist: wow thats dirt cheap
[02:30:13] <zeeshan> lol
[02:31:31] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-dividing-head-A-axis-rotation-rotary-4th-axis-5th-axis-engraving-machine-/321832377889?hash=item4aeeb45e21
[02:31:34] <zeeshan> thats a cute little design
[02:32:11] <zeeshan> i could do a compound pulley setup
[02:32:19] <zeeshan> to get a 30:1 gear ratio
[02:32:25] <zeeshan> i mean pulley ratio
[02:33:15] <archivist> zeeshan, but that one I pointed at is not harmonic despite the title!
[02:33:21] <zeeshan> haha
[02:33:44] <archivist> baby trunnion looks....baby
[02:34:01] <zeeshan> prolly good for small jobs
[02:34:04] <zeeshan> like on wood and aluminum
[02:34:12] <zeeshan> but if you really wanna take advantage of 4th axis
[02:34:29] <zeeshan> like theres so many parts ive done in the past
[02:34:33] <zeeshan> i coulda done so much easier on the 4th axis
[02:34:38] <zeeshan> much less setup time
[02:35:19] <zeeshan> archivist: im trying to think of a situation where a bidirection a-axis is important
[02:35:21] <zeeshan> vs unidirectional
[02:36:24] <zeeshan> you also prolly need to be careful on the cut direction
[02:36:39] <zeeshan> so you're never forcing the table in the slack direction
[02:37:25] <archivist> I am fussy about the division accuracy hence the rotaries I use
[02:37:44] <zeeshan> for clock work?
[02:37:57] <archivist> any gear cutting
[02:38:15] <zeeshan> lol
[02:38:19] <zeeshan> i was gonna design something in solidworks
[02:38:27] <zeeshan> but i found exactly what iwas thinking
[02:38:42] <zeeshan> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141748&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1389526639
[02:39:10] <archivist> running the belt through the endplate on the baby trunnion is silly
[02:39:13] <zeeshan> so your first ratio is 1 to 6 and then again 1 to 6
[02:39:16] <zeeshan> so you get 36:1
[02:40:02] <fenn> why is it silly?
[02:40:12] <zeeshan> fenn:
[02:40:15] <zeeshan> chips i would think
[02:40:16] <fenn> the end plate needs more meat for sure
[02:40:29] <archivist> it reduces stiffness of the endplate
[02:40:41] <zeeshan> which one are you talking about
[02:40:43] <zeeshan> the one i posted?
[02:40:52] <archivist> mount the motor on the trunnion
[02:40:57] <fenn> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzAwWDcwMA==/z/DVUAAOSw6BtVStJd/$_57.JPG
[02:41:42] <fenn> archivist: so the base part would be wider but the whole thing is the same length, gothca
[02:42:07] <archivist> my motor on my A causes me problems in clearance so I know why they went that way
[02:42:24] <zeeshan> its a more compact design
[02:42:31] <zeeshan> but iagree wqith you
[02:42:35] <zeeshan> theres barely any meat in that plate
[02:42:35] <zeeshan> lol
[02:42:50] <archivist> too busy making it cheap
[02:42:51] <zeeshan> but it's an easy fix
[02:42:59] <zeeshan> you dont even need a thicker plate
[02:43:03] <zeeshan> cause it's not gonna do much
[02:43:06] <fenn> it's just as compact with the motor on the trunnion
[02:43:09] <archivist> and then over charging for it
[02:43:14] <zeeshan> i'd build a bug box around the stepper motor on the left
[02:43:18] <zeeshan> that would really reinforce it
[02:43:29] <zeeshan> actually itake that back
[02:43:35] <zeeshan> no it wont :P
[02:43:41] <Wolf_> probably works fine (if you are using a 3d printer converted to a mill)
[02:43:56] <zeeshan> i think im almost positive
[02:44:02] <zeeshan> im gonna go the compound pulley route
[02:44:03] <zeeshan> its cheap
[02:44:04] <zeeshan> easy to do
[02:44:11] <zeeshan> i can build it prolly for under 300 bux
[02:44:21] <fenn> if it doesn't work you can sell it on ebay :)
[02:44:25] <zeeshan> LOL
[02:44:34] <zeeshan> you guys have me thinking though
[02:44:35] <zeeshan> if i mgonna do it
[02:44:39] <zeeshan> why not a truntion
[02:44:41] <zeeshan> hmm :P
[02:44:42] <archivist> just claim to be from china
[02:44:45] <zeeshan> trunion table
[02:45:04] <fenn> best harmonic trunnion buy now
[02:45:08] <zeeshan> actually
[02:45:14] <zeeshan> if i buy the factory rotary table
[02:45:18] <zeeshan> that is your C axis
[02:45:35] <zeeshan> and then i mount my 4th axis (A axis)
[02:45:47] <zeeshan> technically i can get a really compact setup
[02:46:16] <zeeshan> if you dont know what im talking about
[02:46:17] <zeeshan> check this out:
[02:46:35] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTet02zeuq6fXIw_f9u3lMpgpai1aIclJ8XSXtjVaTdvEyH0Lf
[02:46:37] <archivist> I lock off B some of the time for extra rigid
[02:46:44] <zeeshan> thats the oem 4th axis
[02:46:46] <zeeshan> (c)
[02:46:56] <zeeshan> so i could mount my design on top of that and have 5 axis
[02:47:24] <archivist> solid mutha
[02:47:25] <fenn> zeeshan can mount that straight to the column and use the ram as y axis?
[02:47:50] <zeeshan> http://wild-maschinen.de/img/mach/ex/8e07eb58b38f4fbf3ae669e13d5b6823.jpg
[02:47:51] <zeeshan> larger pic
[02:48:08] <zeeshan> fenn: my ram is Y axis
[02:48:09] <zeeshan> hehe
[02:48:34] <fenn> oh it has an angle plate built in, poo
[02:48:47] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD62EFLJZYU
[02:48:48] <zeeshan> you can see it here
[02:48:50] <zeeshan> the Y axis moving
[02:48:55] <zeeshan> (RAMm)
[02:48:56] <fenn> right
[02:49:15] <zeeshan> okay im motivated to build a 4th axis
[02:49:19] <fenn> if it were just a rotary that mounted the same way (no 90 degree angle plate) the you could use it as B axis
[02:49:32] <zeeshan> thats true
[02:49:40] <zeeshan> fenn: that's exactly how the newer versionsof my machine are
[02:50:45] <zeeshan> http://fplreflib.findlay.co.uk/engapp/March_motorsport_DMG_big.jpg
[02:50:55] <zeeshan> see the resemblence? :D
[02:51:12] <zeeshan> damn it thats not the pic.
[02:51:52] <zeeshan> drool: http://www.opincarmachinery.com/photos/15290.jpg
[02:51:55] <zeeshan> what a monster
[02:52:17] <fenn> scary
[02:52:34] <archivist> you sure are going to have to throw that scrap car out to get that in
[02:52:41] <zeeshan> rofl archivist
[02:53:01] <zeeshan> archivist: im so glad you convinced me to get the mikron
[02:53:09] <zeeshan> i was so clueless about it back then
[02:53:17] <zeeshan> i look on kijiji for other milling machines for fun
[02:53:31] <zeeshan> and they are all flimsy pos bridgeports
[02:53:36] <zeeshan> that have been converted
[02:53:41] * archivist denies all blame
[02:54:01] <archivist> and steals the mikron
[02:55:23] <archivist> convenience and solid meaty machine not always from the same maker
[02:56:05] <archivist> over here they fight over Myfords on ebay, silly people
[02:56:11] <zeeshan> i really like the cincinnati machines too
[02:56:17] <zeeshan> they're built tough
[02:56:25] <zeeshan> haha
[02:56:33] <zeeshan> why are myfords so famous in uk?
[02:56:46] <fenn> you can carry them down the basement stairs
[02:56:46] <zeeshan> is it something to do with that was the most common lathe in schools back in the day
[02:56:49] <zeeshan> so people can relate to them?
[02:56:59] <archivist> it is the same as VHS v Beta
[02:56:59] <zeeshan> fenn: but thats not usually a good thin when it comes to machining metal!
[02:57:15] <fenn> not everyone has a garage
[02:57:23] <zeeshan> fenn: even if i didnt have a garage
[02:57:28] <zeeshan> i'd haul it down my basement
[02:57:34] <zeeshan> have you seen mr pete's basement?
[02:57:38] <zeeshan> guy has a bridgeport down there
[02:57:38] <zeeshan> lol
[02:58:11] <fenn> i've seen funny things where people have removed floor joists to lower machines via crane
[02:59:13] <fenn> better to just build a shed for it at that point
[02:59:16] <Wolf_> my high school G/F’s father had a big lathe and mill in his basement
[02:59:34] <Wolf_> always wondered how the hell they got them things down there
[02:59:36] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYdJZdeMTzE
[02:59:46] <zeeshan> isn't this that china 4th axis you posted archivist
[03:00:18] <Wolf_> the wall next to the lathe had a small door cut in it for though the headstock things :D
[03:00:46] <archivist> there was a belt on the rear
[03:02:20] <zeeshan> looks very chinese to me
[03:02:20] <zeeshan> lol
[03:04:30] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3040-CNC-L-type-4th-Axis-Router-Rotational-Rotary-A-Axis-Tailstock-Engraving-/271526566907?hash=item3f383e9bfb
[03:04:32] <zeeshan> looks like this one
[03:04:43] <fenn> is it supposed to look frustrating? that's all i get from this video
[03:09:19] <zeeshan> im looking through my archives to see what parts could be made o nthe 4th axis
[03:09:21] <zeeshan> much easier
[03:09:22] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/mE19uJf.png
[03:09:25] <zeeshan> here is one example :P
[03:09:29] <zeeshan> grip it on the right
[03:11:35] <zeeshan> http://s1.promotionsupplies.com/ebay/cxmotorsports/images/radiator/Rad-Cap1-1.jpg
[03:11:39] <zeeshan> another part for the 4th axis
[03:16:30] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDUwWDgwMA==/z/uXYAAOSwv0tVP6lR/$_27.JPG
[03:16:32] <zeeshan> what an excellent idea
[03:16:37] <zeeshan> i think im gonna do my router mount like this guy
[03:16:51] <fenn> zero backlash is helpful because you don't have to lock and unlock the table constantly
[03:17:20] <zeeshan> i totally agre
[03:36:46] <Wolf_> this should work right? http://i.imgur.com/PvTW4SS.png?1
[03:38:28] <archivist> why only one pillar
[03:38:57] <Wolf_> cause I have a lazy cad operator
[03:38:58] <zeeshan> what is this :P
[03:39:08] <zeeshan> i see a coupling
[03:39:21] <Wolf_> motor mount for x/y
[03:39:25] <archivist> one with a 90 degree error :)
[03:39:32] <zeeshan> lol
[03:39:33] <archivist> lazy cad
[03:39:44] <Wolf_> no its in right, I have the disk hidden...
[03:39:57] <zeeshan> you mean spider? :P
[03:40:05] <archivist> disk
[03:40:12] <Wolf_> oldham
[03:40:17] <archivist> spiders are on a different type
[03:40:21] <zeeshan> oh
[03:40:25] <zeeshan> i was thinking it was a lovejoy
[03:40:26] <zeeshan> my bad
[03:41:32] <Wolf_> I asked for suggestions before picking what to use, or I would have them crap china helical things on there… lol
[03:41:47] <zeeshan> im glad you didnt
[03:41:50] <zeeshan> those things are a piece of shit
[03:41:51] <zeeshan> they snap
[03:42:01] <archivist> I use the oldhams these days
[03:42:14] <Wolf_> thats cause they are really encoder couplers lol
[03:44:32] <Wolf_> I could do worse I think http://www.projectsinmetal.com/wp-content/forum-image-uploads/damantha/mill-cnc-mod/davids-059.jpg lmao
[04:22:03] <Wolf_> ok, need suggestion, want to also do a belt drive conversion on to POS mill, and replace the motor with a 1/2hp 1700 rpm max, what spindle speed should I be trying to get?
[04:46:32] <XXCoder> hey'
[05:32:17] <archivist> Wolf_, get a 3 phase motor and vfd, then you can have any sensible speed
[05:33:43] <archivist> within reason and the spindle bearings
[05:35:27] <archivist> got my cheap angle measuring device replaced, new one works within +- .1 deg it looks like
[06:33:40] <XXCoder> archivist: I heard of air bearings, wonder if spindle can use em lol
[06:33:50] <XXCoder> damn near fictionless
[06:33:54] <XXCoder> very tight tols
[06:47:24] <archivist> XXCoder, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q
[06:47:44] <XXCoder> yeah thats where i learned of ut
[07:01:42] <malcom2073> I saw that video, that guy looks like the kind of guy you wouldn't want to borrow his tools
[07:02:43] <archivist> like taking a hire car back with a spec of dirt
[07:03:37] <malcom2073> Yeah
[07:05:10] <XXCoder> why?
[07:06:50] <malcom2073> There's no way I could get them clean enough
[07:08:45] <archivist> got to wear the cotton gloves
[07:08:58] <malcom2073> And a nice buttondown
[07:10:26] <XXCoder> malcom2073: once entered class AAA clean room
[07:10:28] <XXCoder> clean.
[07:10:45] <malcom2073> heh
[07:13:09] <archivist> I made a cylinder and piston ready for a vacuum engine, spec of dirt seizes it
[07:13:41] <archivist> must finish that one day if I can find the parts :)
[07:26:35] <malcom2073> I started doing a cylinder on my lathe to see how close of a tolerance I can get on it
[07:26:44] <malcom2073> Probably not much
[07:26:58] <XXCoder> 0.00001 I dare you
[07:31:46] <archivist> one has to make it tight and then "fit" the parts
[07:38:01] <SpeedEvil> s/fit/hammer/
[07:44:56] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I'd be lucky to get 10x that I think :P
[07:45:03] <XXCoder> lol
[08:32:02] <Wolf_> yeah… 3 phase VFD on a X1… right :D
[08:32:12] <malcom2073> Lol
[08:32:16] <malcom2073> Be amusing for sure :P
[08:32:25] <malcom2073> Just get a universal motor and SCR
[08:32:28] <malcom2073> I got a 3hp SCR
[08:32:53] <Jymmm> Radio shacks sells them
[08:33:12] <malcom2073> 3hp scr's?
[08:33:28] <Jymmm> and 3hp 3ph motors too
[08:33:38] <malcom2073> Heh
[08:34:03] <Wolf_> well, going from a 1/5 hp to 1/2 hp 1st pulley setup maybe just go 1:1 for 1700 rpm off the motor
[08:34:42] <Wolf_> stock the thing only spins L 1000, H 2000, least thats whats on the sticker
[08:35:08] <Jymmm> CHIPMUNK POWER!!!
[08:35:46] <archivist> Wolf_, my 5 axis is tiny and has 1/2hp 3phase and vfd
[08:36:27] <Wolf_> also ran latency test again after the vid card install, http://i.imgur.com/VdPduXL.jpg is useable right? :D
[08:36:31] <Jymmm> archivist: Nothing you do is tiny, except the miniatures you make
[08:37:30] <archivist> pfft http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_07_10_cnc_with_LCD_P4/IMG_0268.JPG
[08:37:45] <archivist> it even has a mug for scale
[08:38:10] <Jymmm> See,e even the pic is HUGE!!!
[08:38:38] <archivist> sufficient
[08:38:48] <Jymmm> lol
[08:39:01] <malcom2073> Still loading for me
[08:39:06] <Jymmm> it's STILL loading btw
[08:39:21] <malcom2073> I think it's the server :P My internet is slow, not THAT slow
[08:39:24] <archivist> you are all fighting the adsl upload rate
[08:39:33] <malcom2073> Heh that mill is 90% motors
[08:39:54] <malcom2073> Jymmm's download must have finished, because mine sped up at the end
[08:39:56] <archivist> I never stall it
[08:40:12] <Jymmm> malcom2073: it did
[08:40:13] <malcom2073> I imagine you lose accuracy via flex before you stall heh
[08:40:16] <Wolf_> oh that mill lol
[08:41:01] <archivist> modern motors and vfds are smaller
[08:42:22] <Wolf_> I asked because I really have no idea what spindle speeds I’m going to want on the thing
[08:42:48] <malcom2073> Wolf_: Variable! :)
[08:42:55] <Wolf_> its it…
[08:43:13] <Wolf_> its this set https://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html
[08:43:35] <Wolf_> which is on my Taig, and is way too big for that thing lol
[08:44:14] <malcom2073> Wolf_: You're near DC, are you a member of CAMS? (hesapeake Area Metalworking Society)
[08:44:24] <Wolf_> nope
[08:44:32] <malcom2073> You should go to their monthly CNC subgroup meetings, they're damn near experts on converting X1's to CNC
[08:44:59] <Wolf_> really not much to them
[08:45:37] <Wolf_> except mine seems to be going in a different direction then all the ones I have seen on-line so far lol
[08:46:18] <malcom2073> Infact, they're having their annual yard sale in a month, which is a good place to pick up random stuff on the cheap
[08:46:30] <Wolf_> cool
[08:46:47] <malcom2073> http://www.cams-club.org/events/yardsale2015.html If you're interested
[08:48:58] <Wolf_> 58 miles from here
[08:49:26] <malcom2073> It's 105 miles for me
[08:49:30] <Wolf_> I may have to check it out
[08:49:35] <malcom2073> I occasionally get the long distance award when going to theri meetings
[08:49:42] <malcom2073> (Which consists of them laughing at me for driving)
[08:49:51] <Wolf_> lol
[09:02:55] <Wolf_> I should really bother to learn how to properly run my mill and lathe…
[09:28:59] <ssi> morn
[09:29:32] * furrywolf is way too sore today
[09:29:37] <furrywolf> moving the mill with a bad back sucked.
[09:46:11] <archivist> I was in the local store today looking at weight capacities of wheels to make machine moving easy
[09:47:58] <archivist> but max of 135kg per wheel https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/castors-wheels/type/any/module/shopcategory/page/1
[09:53:58] <SpeedEvil> In principle, if you're not requiring to move it much - plywood wheels work just fine
[09:55:23] <archivist> cnc on chariot wheels, wrong style
[10:10:08] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=801NU7CkEQM cutter manufacturing
[10:12:14] <malcom2073> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDPrFJazD3Q <- The pantorouter you see in that video
[10:12:15] <malcom2073> he needs CNC
[10:12:20] <malcom2073> CNC horizontal wood router!
[10:14:21] <SpeedEvil> and yes
[10:14:37] <SpeedEvil> though - the pantorouter does simplify things enormously in many ways
[10:15:14] <SpeedEvil> 'how do I program this' becomes -> make a 2* copy of the joint you want to make
[10:15:24] <malcom2073> True
[10:15:44] <SpeedEvil> Software is never going to crash, axes require no power or screws, ...
[10:16:03] <SpeedEvil> And it's almost certainly going to be working in 50 years - if you just replace the router perhaps
[10:16:13] <malcom2073> I'm trying to think out if there is some other use for a horizontal cnc router
[10:16:28] <SpeedEvil> I was imagining something with a feed.
[10:16:50] <ssi> archivist: i have some machine dollies which are like 2000kg apiece load
[10:16:52] <SpeedEvil> Take something that takes dimensional lumber, and can make arbitrary mortices or tenons or ... in the sides as it goes through
[10:16:55] <ssi> you can move a hell of a lot of machine with them
[10:17:27] <archivist> ssi, seen those the machine slips off then rather too easily though
[10:17:27] <ssi> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356891_200356891?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Material%20Handling%20%3E%20Dollies%20%2B%20Movers&utm_campaign=Northern%20Industrial%20Tools&utm_content=144021&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=144021&gclid=CLjAmYK3uscCFVg6gQod3j4AQA
[10:18:21] <ssi> ooh they have 12 ton ones
[10:18:29] <ssi> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381531_200381531
[10:18:34] <archivist> specially the ones with lots of tiny rollers
[10:19:23] <archivist> I usually feel safer with scaffold pole rollers
[10:19:54] <PetefromTn_> I used those things to move my VMC by myself
[10:20:13] <ssi> I just used an enormous forklift :D
[10:20:21] <archivist> cheat!
[10:20:30] <ssi> yea it's 10klb, I wasn't screwing around
[10:20:31] <ssi> heheh
[10:20:33] <PetefromTn_> yup couldn't afford one hehe
[10:20:57] <_methods> heh handle is optional
[10:21:04] <ssi> forklift only cost me $600
[10:21:06] <ssi> was worth it
[10:21:09] <_methods> you can usually rent skates from local machine rental place
[10:21:23] <PetefromTn_> it worked pretty good tho and it is kinda cool to be able to push a 7klb machine with your hands LOL
[10:21:26] <_methods> skates can get expensive
[10:21:49] <PetefromTn_> I rented mine for like $45.00
[10:22:14] <PetefromTn_> they were very heavy duty ones with the poles to help turn them
[10:22:17] <_methods> yeah
[10:22:38] <PetefromTn_> that is the hardest part....aside from just getting them underneath the damn machine LOL
[10:22:51] <_methods> rent those railroad jacks
[10:23:07] <_methods> 1 or 2 railroad jacks to get skates under and go for it
[10:23:11] <PetefromTn_> I used a porta power unit from HF..still have it here
[10:23:40] <_methods> that would work too
[10:23:49] <_methods> we had some rigger show up with air bladder jacks
[10:23:52] <_methods> those were pretty cool
[10:23:53] <archivist> I am thinking more permanent wheels so I can cram more in and just open up a gap to use a machine or two
[10:24:38] <ssi> railroad jacks
[10:24:42] <ssi> how did I not know about these
[10:24:49] <_methods> they da shiznit
[10:24:53] <_methods> http://www.tksimplex.com/
[10:25:08] <_methods> also called simplex jacks
[10:25:16] <_methods> you can do a lot with them
[10:25:33] <_methods> toe jacks, simplex jack, railroad jack
[10:26:04] <_methods> http://www.tksimplex.com/html/products3.php?catid=55&scatid=158&catname=Industrial%20Air%20Bags&scatname=Industrial%20Air%20Bags
[10:26:10] <_methods> those are those cool air bags
[10:26:27] <archivist> I use a toe jack a lot (its on a high lift jack) also good for the rolling along stage
[10:26:29] <_methods> heh 74 ton air bag
[10:26:44] <_methods> with 20 in stroke
[10:27:18] <archivist> any available hole http://www.safetyliftingear.com/products/farm-jack---high-lift-60/hlbj60?gclid=CInXwpm5uscCFUoCwwod7oMDKw
[10:27:20] <malcom2073> Heh, no price on page "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"
[10:28:28] <_methods> http://www.zoro.com/simplex-lifting-bag-31-ton-9x9-b3a/i/G5155692/
[10:28:28] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I was wondering about making one of those from wood
[10:28:57] <_methods> $600 for the 3ton lol
[10:29:58] <archivist> crowbar is cheaper
[10:30:32] <_methods> heheh
[10:30:39] <_methods> old johnson bar
[10:31:11] <archivist> wooden bar is nice and gentle for moving lumps
[10:31:35] <_methods> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200646683_200646683
[10:32:12] <archivist> erm a sick from the pile is cheaper
[10:32:29] <_methods> heheh
[10:32:41] <_methods> just tape soem wheels on
[10:33:06] <archivist> I use scaffold poles no need for tape
[10:39:24] <SEL> hi, i wonder how to wire inductive sensors in series as they have 3 wire ?
[10:39:58] <skunkworks> you need and or or gates
[10:40:33] <pcw_home> you can wire two of the same type in parallel
[10:41:57] <SEL> hmm wouldn;t this confuse the controller as on the same pin there will be one sensor open and one closed when at home or limit position
[10:42:12] <pcw_home> (that is they both have to be PNP or NPN or they will fight and one or both will lose )
[10:44:21] <SEL> sensors are NC but if I wire them in parallel on the same pin this cannot work as one sensor fires 0V while the other is at 5V on the same pin
[10:50:26] <pcw_home> Not really, normally 3 wire Prox's are NPN or PNP type
[10:51:28] <pcw_home> NPN types have a switch to ground and PNP types have a switch to V+
[10:52:14] <pcw_home> the switch is either on or open so they can be paralleled if they are of the same type
[10:54:30] <pcw_home> (there are push-pull types you cannot parallel but they are uncommon)
[10:59:31] <SEL> the pins on the board are at 5V and the sensors are NC so current is flowing when both are closed, but current flows through the pin if one only is closed, so this achieves nothing
[11:00:49] <pcw_home> That may be true depending on whether the are NO or NC, but common 3 wire proxes _can_ be paralleled
[11:01:51] <pcw_home> whether the combined switch logic you get is useful depends on what you are doing (and whether you have NO or NC switches)
[11:01:51] <SEL> if they where NO I would have to invert the pin in the hal file with a -not
[11:02:19] <pcw_home> depends if they are NPN or PNP
[11:02:43] <pcw_home> PNP pull high when on, NPN pull low
[11:07:03] <pcw_home> If these are limit switches best is probably NC and 2 separate inputs
[11:08:21] <pcw_home> (PNP NC has a slight edge for limits since a open or shorted to ground error will show up as on-limit)
[11:09:55] <SEL> exactly, but the board has 3 pins one for each home switch
[11:13:59] <pcw_home> and how many switches total?
[11:17:25] <SEL> well 3 home switches and 3 limit
[11:18:31] <SEL> but probably if I set the axis travel in the INI file I don't need limit switches?
[11:19:33] <skunkworks> could your machine destroy itself if it ran into the hard limits?
[11:21:31] <SEL> so the solution is to wire the sensors in series so that when one switch is open, no current flows
[11:22:09] <pcw_home> that works for mechanical switches...
[11:22:41] <archivist> you cant wire them in series if 3 wire (power gnd collector(switch))
[11:22:43] <PetefromTn_> Well my damn Tee fitting finally arrived here.. Only about a week later LOL
[11:23:50] <pcw_home> or just use 3 combined home/limit switches
[11:27:28] <SEL> they exist ?
[11:28:08] <pcw_home> Linuxcnc can be setup to use the same switch for both
[11:29:27] <SEL> that i know, but it is a wiring problem, i looked at 4 wire sensors but those are just NC + NO
[11:32:39] <pcw_home> Not sure there's any useful way to logically combine separate home/limit switches anyway
[11:38:20] <pcw_home> I guess X+ limit and X- Home could be ORed for example and untangled in HAL but what a mess
[11:39:10] <JT-Shop> for limit switches all tied together then any one breaks the loop the machine stops but doesn't know which axis violated the limit
[11:39:55] <JT-Shop> for homing you have to make sure you only home one axis at a time
[11:40:50] <SEL> yes i have set the sequence numbers
[11:41:23] <zeeshan> nice pete
[11:41:28] <pcw_home> so you could get by with 2 inputs (limit and home)
[11:42:09] <pcw_home> but if you used 3 wire proxes they would need to be NO so they can be paralleled
[11:43:37] <zeeshan> if its a mill
[11:43:44] <zeeshan> it's nice to be able to home Y and X together
[11:43:51] <zeeshan> it does save a bit of time :P
[11:44:01] <pcw_home> on the other hand if you are going to the trouble to use inductive proxes why not just get more inputs?
[11:44:46] <JT-Shop> Stepconf has a choice of "All limits + homes"
[11:44:48] <SEL> i have buy another board and not a cheap one
[11:45:30] <JT-Shop> limits are ignored when homing a combined limit and home but proxes add another level
[11:46:20] <SEL> that one was 40$
[11:47:43] <SEL> home + max limit
[11:55:33] <SEL> oh NO proxes with the pin inverted, this could work
[11:57:31] <archivist> are proxies accurate as home switches, do they have a repeatability spec? ,some mechanicals are cheap and good
[11:58:24] <SEL> I have them on my router
[11:58:58] <archivist> 10 thou, 5 thou 1 thou?
[11:59:02] <SEL> they are accurate
[12:00:10] <SEL> the sensing depth is 2mm
[12:04:02] <archivist> plus or minus what percentage
[12:04:53] <archivist> I looked at one at random and it is 10% of the 2mm/whatever
[12:04:58] <archivist> http://www.keyence.co.uk/products/sensor/proximity/ez/specs/index.jsp
[12:05:22] <zeeshan> keyence is high end stuff
[12:05:25] <zeeshan> cool company :P
[12:05:49] <archivist> but a position spec of 10%
[12:06:34] <archivist> some microswitches have a 1 thou spec
[12:06:54] <pcw_home> thats initial trip point I think, repeatability is probably much better
[12:07:14] <archivist> no spec for repeatability though
[12:07:51] <pcw_home> yeah and it probably changes with voltage, temperature etc
[12:08:17] <zeeshan> it can't be that bad
[12:08:26] <zeeshan> cause i get really good repeatability with the 1 prox switch i have on my machine
[12:08:40] <zeeshan> like it has to be in a couple of tenths
[12:09:01] <pcw_home> prox or prox+ index?
[12:09:04] <archivist> also has 10% hysteresis
[12:09:18] <zeeshan> its just a 3 wire prox switch
[12:09:20] <archivist> someone should measure one :)
[12:09:25] <zeeshan> npn
[12:09:38] <zeeshan> what do you wanna see?
[12:09:44] <zeeshan> me home 3 times using this switch
[12:09:54] <zeeshan> w/ a tenths indicator hooked up at a fixed position?
[12:10:29] <archivist> on a hot day, repeat in winter
[12:11:47] <pcw_home> Keyence switch: "Temperature characteristics:
[12:11:48] <pcw_home> ±10% max. of detecting distance at 23°C , within -25 to +70°C"
[12:12:09] <zeeshan> thats a weird way of writing
[12:12:18] <zeeshan> +/-10% within -25 to 70c
[12:12:21] <zeeshan> :P
[12:12:35] <archivist> means expect variance
[12:12:57] <pcw_home> yes weird but it probably means .004 mm/C worst case
[12:13:04] <PetefromTn_> or you could just source some of the switches used by major machine tool manufacturers and rely on their research and track record LOL
[12:13:07] <JT-Shop> anyone seen my tape measure, I've lost it again
[12:13:24] <cradek> check your back pocket and to the right of wherever you're standing
[12:13:27] <pcw_home> you need to buy enough to saturate the area
[12:13:28] <PetefromTn_> I think I see it here JT do you see my flex head mirror?
[12:13:28] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: this is why you need 10 in the shop
[12:13:56] <PetefromTn_> I have like five of them around the shop in conspicuous places and STILL can never find one
[12:14:13] <archivist> they all end up on the wrong place
[12:22:39] <zeeshan> http://www.accusizetools.com/1-8-miniature-precision-air-die-grinder-speed-54000-rpm-at00-3170/
[12:22:44] <zeeshan> think this would work for engraving?
[12:23:00] <zeeshan> do it faster!
[12:24:15] <PetefromTn_> I have some USA made versions of that tool... it works okay in softer materials but I would not try it in hard materials I don't think it will take the side loads too well...
[12:24:19] <archivist> damned cheap, like that angle thing I got, how good/bad will it be
[12:24:21] <Rab> Maybe, but no speed regulation. So if the tool bogs down, which is pretty easy, you might get a crappy finish.
[12:25:00] <Rab> IOW might not want to plan everything around that "54000 RPM" figure.
[12:25:01] <archivist> cheap enough to try
[12:25:09] <zeeshan> i was thinking about the router attachment onto the mill
[12:25:17] <zeeshan> it's kinda almost pointless..
[12:25:20] <zeeshan> you cant change tools!
[12:25:53] <archivist> have 5 grinders and solenoid valves
[12:25:56] <zeeshan> lol
[12:26:39] <archivist> MTBF of about 3 minutes
[12:28:56] <Rab> zeeshan, are you going to engrave all the plates at once and then mill them out?
[12:29:11] <zeeshan> rab im still thinking about fixturing
[12:29:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah you can't quick change tools but I typically only used it for wood or engraving things if I needed quick change I made due with the 6k RPM main spindle
[12:29:24] <zeeshan> but i'd like to do at least 10-20 plates per fixture
[12:29:33] <PetefromTn_> they do actually make quick change router bit setups tho...
[12:29:39] <zeeshan> really?
[12:29:43] <zeeshan> i didnt know!
[12:29:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[12:30:51] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAFTSMAN-1-2-ROUTER-BIT-CONNECTOR-ADAPTOR-KIT-QUICK-CHANGE-26690-/161797785481?hash=item25abe64789
[12:31:30] <PetefromTn_> much as I hate to say the name HOSS on CNCzone used them awhile back and did some videos on them he seemed to think they were not too bad really...
[12:32:44] <_methods> anyone here have someone they use for titanium nitride coatings?
[12:39:29] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uMZzVvnSiU
[12:40:58] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEO5VHt1XyA
[12:42:25] <ganzuul> soooooooo fanceh
[12:43:56] <_methods> until the screw flies out
[12:44:03] <_methods> soon followed by router bit lol
[12:44:30] <zeeshan> you guys think double sided tape would work to machine a 0.0625 thick plate of stainless
[12:44:45] <jdh> yes
[12:44:46] <JT-Shop> depends on the tape
[12:44:53] <jdh> 3m
[12:44:56] <JT-Shop> some will not hold and some hold well
[12:45:03] <zeeshan> im also using mist coolant
[12:45:08] <JT-Shop> there is different grades of tape
[12:45:14] <jdh> I can get you a 3m part num in a few
[12:45:20] <zeeshan> thank u
[12:47:50] <Rab> zeeshan, vacuum table!
[12:47:56] <zeeshan> i wish!!
[12:48:23] <zeeshan> i have 3 approaches to make this..
[12:48:41] <Rab> Carpet tape is pretty damn strong. 3M VHB is supposedly extremely strong, but I haven't tried it. I think you'd want the version without foam backing.
[12:52:36] <PetefromTn_> maybe you can machine a shallow pocket to hold the parts while you are engraving them...
[12:52:44] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/BLLcALX.jpg
[12:52:52] <zeeshan> i have actually 4 options
[12:53:03] <zeeshan> so im thinking of #1 sending these for water jet cutting
[12:53:10] <PetefromTn_> methods I have used these before and they work fine... I don't have any here but we had them in the Pro woodshop I used to work in for awhile..
[12:53:37] <zeeshan> #2 , if that is too expensive, then I will stack 10 of these at a time
[12:53:40] <zeeshan> (each one is .0625 thick)
[12:54:06] <zeeshan> and machine the outside
[12:54:11] <PetefromTn_> laser cut?
[12:54:23] <PetefromTn_> then you won't have to machine the outside
[12:54:36] <zeeshan> it'd be nice to keep the money for waterjet cutting
[12:54:43] <zeeshan> like i think if i stack 10 of em, it might be worth doing
[12:54:54] <zeeshan> cause itll prolly take 10 - 15 min per stack
[12:55:08] <_methods> would sure make changing router bits easier
[12:55:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i really like your idea about the shallow pocket
[12:55:25] <zeeshan> very smart!
[12:55:35] <PetefromTn_> the first one I posted actually is a real quick change setup
[12:55:56] <jdh> 3m VHB 5952
[12:55:57] <PetefromTn_> I have used the vacuum a couple times now to hold down parts
[12:56:05] <PetefromTn_> it has its uses and limitations
[12:56:28] <PetefromTn_> but depending on what you are making and the surface area of the bottom of the part it works okay
[12:56:28] <zeeshan> that looks very much like 3m molding tape
[12:57:04] <PetefromTn_> that stuff is crazy strong but you will be changing it out each time..
[12:57:48] <zeeshan> i think im just gonna stack em 10 at a time
[12:58:02] <zeeshan> do one outside contour, then flip the toe clamps and do other side
[12:58:05] <zeeshan> it shouldnt take too long
[12:58:10] <PetefromTn_> never had much luck with stacking parts more than three or four...
[12:58:19] <zeeshan> why
[12:58:26] <zeeshan> i did tensile test specimens like this
[12:58:29] <zeeshan> but they were much thinner
[12:58:35] <zeeshan> like 0.025 thick
[12:58:36] <PetefromTn_> well something always seems to move on me
[12:58:40] <PetefromTn_> I know you did
[12:58:43] <alex80> hi
[12:59:23] <zeeshan> im gonna expand on your idea about the pocket
[12:59:29] <zeeshan> i think drill 2 holes dowel it up
[12:59:39] <PetefromTn_> a shop with a CNC laser would make real short work of that part both for cutting it out as well as laser engraving them..
[12:59:39] <zeeshan> use that for engraving
[12:59:52] <zeeshan> he wants depth
[12:59:55] <zeeshan> not etch
[13:00:12] <PetefromTn_> ok
[13:00:13] <zeeshan> it's so frigging hard quoting for stuff
[13:00:20] <zeeshan> annoys me
[13:00:27] <PetefromTn_> I know
[13:00:30] <PetefromTn_> it is difficult
[13:00:36] <zeeshan> i seem to screw myself always
[13:00:54] <PetefromTn_> but anymore I just do whatever I think will allow me to make whatever I need for it.....and don't worry about it.
[13:01:45] <zeeshan> pete with the shallow pocket you were talking about
[13:01:55] <zeeshan> i dont think id even need to clamp the part down
[13:01:57] <zeeshan> for engraving..
[13:02:13] <jdh> bowing
[13:02:20] <zeeshan> its tiny though
[13:02:22] <PetefromTn_> its possible
[13:02:27] <jdh> twss
[13:02:51] <zeeshan> its like 1.75"x.875"
[13:03:08] <Rab> Unless the pocket is press-fit, I think the plate will chatter in the pocket.
[13:03:22] <PetefromTn_> I think you need to hold it down somehow
[13:04:00] <SpeedEvil> Trained beaver.
[13:04:03] <PetefromTn_> some sacrificial jaws with that shallow pocket in the vise would hold it nice if you clamp gently
[13:04:25] <ganzuul> Cam
[13:04:27] <zeeshan> but that'd mean 1 at a time
[13:04:27] <zeeshan> ;[
[13:04:29] <PetefromTn_> how many of these do you have to make?
[13:04:33] <Rab> See if the stainless stock is magnetic.
[13:04:34] <zeeshan> 40
[13:04:35] <PetefromTn_> why?
[13:04:41] <zeeshan> rab its not
[13:04:42] <zeeshan> its 304
[13:04:46] <PetefromTn_> I make LONG sacrificial jaws for stuff like that...
[13:04:46] <zeeshan> lovely :)
[13:04:46] <Rab> ahh
[13:04:57] <PetefromTn_> could probably do at least five at a time
[13:05:32] <zeeshan> okay thats not a bad idea
[13:05:38] <zeeshan> but igotta make sure they're all the same :)
[13:05:44] <zeeshan> (they need to be)
[13:05:54] <PetefromTn_> why wouldn't they be?
[13:05:58] <zeeshan> its funny how the 4 ideas i had in my mind
[13:06:03] <zeeshan> have been transformed to something completely else
[13:06:07] <zeeshan> thanks to you :P
[13:06:12] <PetefromTn_> sorry heh
[13:06:31] <PetefromTn_> just trying to help give alternatives
[13:06:37] <zeeshan> yea i really like the vise jaw idea
[13:06:40] <PetefromTn_> there is always more than one way to make something
[13:07:08] <zeeshan> well with a vise jaw
[13:07:14] <zeeshan> first of all its much less material to machine
[13:07:19] <zeeshan> cause youre machining only a small shadow
[13:07:30] <zeeshan> i dont have to waste a whole aluminum plate on it
[13:07:38] <zeeshan> like i was imagining -- with a bunch of dowel holes all over it
[13:07:54] <zeeshan> and 5 at a time is reasonable because engraving time is about 8 min per piece
[13:07:57] <zeeshan> ccause im limited to 3000 rpm
[13:08:31] <PetefromTn_> I have a BUNCH of sacrificial jaw fixtures out there for various things..
[13:09:16] <PetefromTn_> they allow a lot of flexibility and great clamping power when you need it.. or gentle when you don't.. you can even put a torque wrench on the vise screw to ensure they are all clamped the same way
[13:10:20] <zeeshan> ooo
[13:10:22] <zeeshan> thats a GOOD idea
[13:10:32] <zeeshan> cause when using aluminum soft jaws, i noticed the part shifts a bit
[13:10:37] <zeeshan> because it digs into the aluminum
[13:10:43] <zeeshan> a torque wrench will minimize tat
[13:10:44] <zeeshan> *that
[13:11:12] <PetefromTn_> not sure if it would work for that part but I have also seen people use a dovetail bit to cut the pocket so the walls are tapered helping to pull the part down into the pocket...
[13:12:27] <PetefromTn_> it is really easy to OVER torque a good vise it seems like I always crank down hard on it.... the reality is a lot of time it is not necessary to do that unless your vise is a piece of shit like my Chinese CNC vise LOL
[13:13:05] <PetefromTn_> with the KURT I don't remember the clamping force ratings but it is pretty incredible....
[13:13:27] <zeeshan> a lot :P
[13:14:01] <PetefromTn_> http://www.kurtworkholding.com/manual-vise-opening-p-1205-l-en.html
[13:14:19] <PetefromTn_> it's actually quite easy to distort even a thick part if you are not careful..
[13:14:54] <PetefromTn_> a lot of the parts we machined in that production facility I first worked in they used torque wrenches because people were killing parts by clamping down too hard on them...
[13:15:24] <PetefromTn_> part deflects in the vise, program is run, part is released and springs back... way out of specs now...
[13:16:18] <archivist> interesting thing I found at a scrap yard is a clamping force measuring tool
[13:17:40] <zeeshan> at kurt vise castings made in china?
[13:17:40] <zeeshan> or usa
[13:17:52] <PetefromTn_> USA
[13:20:31] <_methods> http://imgur.com/a/DyQZL
[13:20:33] <_methods> lol
[13:21:37] <PetefromTn_> woah...that is impressive
[13:23:15] <PetefromTn_> and I can't even get myself to install some more buttons on the VMC control panel LOL
[13:24:33] <_methods> you might be a nerd........
[13:24:52] <JT-Shop> lol
[13:26:03] <JT-Shop> ha found the dang tape measure
[13:26:37] <malcom2073> Hah that's awesome
[13:26:56] <malcom2073> Totally idiotic for a PC
[13:26:59] <malcom2073> But still awesome
[13:27:29] <zeeshan> wow that is sexy
[13:27:43] <malcom2073> I like the backlit stuff
[13:31:31] <cradek> This took a lot of time and a lot more Dremel bits.
[13:31:37] <malcom2073> Heh
[13:31:54] <malcom2073> My CNC control panel *will* look like that, damnit. Saving the images
[14:06:55] <Tom_itx> happy friday
[14:08:57] <PetefromTn_> :)
[14:21:05] <_methods> almost margarita time
[14:23:01] <Tom_itx> almost hell.... it IS
[14:25:10] <tjtr33> Jymmm, thx i did not know those msgs existed
[14:25:51] <tjtr33> archivist, was the sensor a WII board or a digital bathroom scale? some are usb already, cheap force sensor, non-RT
[14:35:39] <tjtr33> that control panel is awesome. but i was hoping it was hal driven :(
[14:36:31] <tjtr33> ( but i also thought it could be a re-configurable graphic on a touch screen :(( )
[14:37:17] <tjtr33> http://www.gfycat.com/DopeyFreeArachnid
[14:37:34] <malcom2073> tjtr33: It could be!
[14:37:42] <malcom2073> I think it could use a couple touchscreens to help it along
[14:38:21] <tjtr33> yeah just a real estop and whatever else he punched
[14:39:07] <tjtr33> and i wanna just wave at it, field sensitive air space ( whats up Trillian? shuddap Zaphod! )
[14:39:23] <Deejay> lol
[14:48:19] <Guest24367> hello
[14:52:46] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJt8yzR2aoY
[14:56:58] <_methods> oh 3d printing what have you done now
[14:56:58] <tjtr33> 5555 'superheroes have NO imagination' love it
[14:57:01] <_methods> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/meet-the-gynepunks-pushing-the-boundaries-of-diy-gynecology
[14:59:28] <Rab> Man, I'm all in favor of this movement, but good luck sterilizing a 3D-printed speculum.
[15:00:28] <Rab> And I dunno about that 3D printed centrifuge.
[15:01:43] <_methods> pretty sure most speculum are highly polished to reduce friction and discomfort during use
[15:02:03] <_methods> don't think too many patients will return to 3d printed gyno land
[15:03:20] <furrywolf> we've already had the "3d printing isn't suitable for sex toys" discussion before. :)
[15:03:21] <PetefromTn_> ick
[15:03:25] <Rab> You could align the filament laterally, and use vapor polishing, but the thing's still basically a porous bacteria swim park...ugh.
[15:04:20] <Rab> And it probably melts at sterilization temps.
[15:04:57] <Rab> Plus, who wants ABS/PLA and whatever soot and contaminants up their hoo-ha?
[15:05:39] <furrywolf> they have a really crappy printer too. lol
[15:06:54] <furrywolf> also, you can get stainless specula (speculums?) for only a few bucks, probably less than the cost of the plastic to print a useless one
[15:07:56] <furrywolf> and disposable plastic ones for a few cents in bulk. heh.
[15:08:01] <Rab> yeah
[15:08:50] <Rab> I guess the big ROI is PR for your activism, like with 3D printed guns.
[15:09:06] <furrywolf> heh
[15:09:07] <PetefromTn_> God it actually frightens me that you know that man...
[15:09:58] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: it frightens you that one of the many things I've delivered, as part of my delivery business, is hospital supplies? :P
[15:10:24] <PetefromTn_> Oh whew... I thought...nevermind ;)
[15:11:15] * furrywolf doesn't own a speculum... yet
[15:13:30] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graves-Vaginal-Speculum-MEDIUM-Stainless-OB-GYNO-Gynecology-Surgical-/321646523752 a quick check of ebay shows how cheap real stainless steel ones are... now what do those rolls of 3d printer plastic cost these days? you can probably buy a reusable metal one for less than you can print a disposable unsafe uncomfortable plastic one. :P
[15:14:48] <furrywolf> also, what the fuck is "gender hacking"? I mean, both of those are subjects I know more about than most people, and I still have no clue what the fuck that is. :P
[15:15:19] <PetefromTn_> heh sick of hearing about both of them honestly
[15:15:38] <Rab> PetefromTn_, gender and hacking?
[15:15:56] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:17:03] <tjtr33> that was a speculum? i thought it was the mouth of MST3K's Crow! http://www.joecrow.com/crow.htm
[15:17:19] <furrywolf> lol
[15:18:32] <_methods> hahahh joe crow
[15:18:58] <_methods> might be a market for mst3k speculums
[15:20:05] <furrywolf> https://calafou.org/en/content/transhackfeminist-thf-convergence-report as much as I want to like these people, both because they have a few good ideas and I fit under some of the categories they talk about,... wtf? lol
[15:20:14] <tjtr33> i think Crow or TomServo doll on top of CNC machine would be better than a tower light
[15:20:18] <furrywolf> "Nobody can burn US! NO ONE! The witches NOW have the flames//"
[15:20:23] <_methods> bender
[15:20:25] <tjtr33> lol
[15:21:02] <_methods> program him to talk smack when you change parts too slow
[15:21:02] <furrywolf> first rule of drawing people to your cause: don't act crazy. even if you are, pretend not to be. :P
[15:22:30] <furrywolf> "All these factors have led to a situation where the internet is not a safe space and where it is common to see feminist and activist work being deleted, censored, and/or prevented from being seen, heard or read." ... seriously? you can now start a blog on fucking ANYTHING, and no matter how worthless it is, it's part of the internet forever.
[15:22:50] <furrywolf> "There will be no feminist internet without properly managed autonomous feminist servers."
[15:23:00] <furrywolf> I am a feminist. these people are whackjobs. :)
[15:23:32] <Rab> furrywolf, "pretend not to be crazy" sounds highly normative. Who decides what sounds crazy?
[15:23:48] <furrywolf> the people you're trying to convince of your ideas.
[15:25:36] <malcom2073> lol
[15:26:56] <furrywolf> they have good ideas, but... it's like trying to convert people to your religion by becoming homeless and wandering around downtown LA with a sign saying jesus is a jedi knight. You don't help your cause that way.
[15:27:24] <malcom2073> Nah, it's more like trying to convert people to your religion by telling them they're sinners and going to burn in hell for all eternity if they don't join... wait a minute.
[15:27:33] <furrywolf> lol
[15:27:50] <Rab> Just shoot Andy Warhol, then everybody will know what's up.
[15:28:23] <malcom2073> You know he's dead, yeah?
[15:28:53] <Rab> Dig him up!
[15:29:03] <malcom2073> Or shoot him with a gun big enough to get through the dirt
[15:30:02] <furrywolf> "Cyborg Romanticism: This session aimed at investigating cyborg ideologies. It explored the assumption that cyborgian romanticism and futurist fetishization might be leading to further exploitation and degradation of our natural environments, and to a potentially techno-fascist climate. "
[15:30:14] <malcom2073> Haha I had just gotten to that part
[15:31:24] <furrywolf> "Satellite Fishing: This session first aimed at showing the extent to which satellites are ubiquitous in the sky and how easy it is to identify them." ... and how they're beaming GENDER CONTROL RAYS and you need to wrap your crotch in TIN FOIL to stop them with the SHINY SIDE OUT or the GOVERNMENT will WIN!
[15:31:47] <malcom2073> Don't forget the chemtrails, specifically formulated to dissolve crotch-foil
[15:32:18] <furrywolf> sorry, I shouldn't mock them, but as I said... if you want to get people to join your cause, sounding crazy usually doesn't help. :)
[15:33:20] <malcom2073> I mock, primarly because nutjobs hurt the root of their own causes no matter how noble
[15:33:41] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: well - it depends.
[15:33:59] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: hence why I added "usually".
[15:34:01] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: the single best predictor of believing in a conspiracy theory is beliving in any other conspiracy theory
[15:34:08] <furrywolf> lol
[15:34:30] <malcom2073> "Gotta catch 'em all!"
[15:38:30] * furrywolf is tempted to send them an email asking them to stop giving the rest of us glbtqrandomletters feminists a bad name, but doesn't think it would accomplish much.
[15:39:56] <Rab> I've come to feel that feminism is something other people attribute to you, rather than something you can claim. Kinda like class.
[15:40:46] <furrywolf> lol
[15:40:58] <Rab> So at one time I claimed to be a feminist, and now I just try to be one.
[15:41:04] * furrywolf is a lower-class low-class redneck. :P
[15:43:41] <Jymmm> Bah, sorry
[15:43:55] <Jymmm> capslock on acident
[15:44:03] <furrywolf> Jymmm: no, rednecks are pretty high up there. below rednecks you have hicks, white trash, and republicans.
[15:44:29] <Jymmm> since when is a political party evne considered a soecieis?
[15:44:34] <Jymmm> species
[15:44:50] * furrywolf introduces jymm to the concept of a joke
[15:45:24] <cradek> the "ha ha just serious" joke is a classic form
[15:45:25] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I was being sarcastic
[15:45:47] <furrywolf> lol
[15:45:50] <Jymmm> furrywolf: political party = ponfd scum
[15:45:57] <Jymmm> pond scum
[15:46:15] <_methods> poor Jymmm having trouble with the hand movement on keyboard thing today lol
[15:46:33] <Jymmm> s/hand/fingers/
[15:46:38] * _methods revokes Jymmm keyboard license
[15:46:52] <_methods> you have to use google voice now
[15:46:58] <Jymmm> license? We don't need no stikin licenses!
[15:47:02] <_methods> heheh
[15:47:50] <_methods> oh yeah the time has come................margarita time
[15:48:14] <furrywolf> why is anything with "hack" in the name invariably using 3d printing, when other DIY-friendly technologies, like milling, would produce far superior, quicker, often cheaper results? heh
[15:49:01] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Joos a u83r h2x0rz
[15:49:11] <Rab> furrywolf, because it is a hack, not a proper solution.
[15:50:01] <Rab> What is Genitalism? The presentation aimed at demystifying what genitalism is specifically and more broadly to demystify the use of language in emancipative contexts.
[15:50:09] <Rab> Totally mystefied, signing up now.
[15:50:13] <furrywolf> lol
[15:50:48] <Jymmm> Rab: singing up at jw.org ???
[15:50:53] <Rab> Hacking the Baby
[15:50:54] <Jymmm> signing*
[15:51:10] <Rab> Jymmm, is that your website
[15:51:18] <Jymmm> Ha, hardly
[15:51:33] <malcom2073> hardly believable?
[15:52:26] <Jymmm> Here's my website: <html></html>
[15:54:18] <Rab> Not showing up here, must require jawascript.
[15:54:29] <malcom2073> These are not the tags you're looking for
[16:05:51] <furrywolf> " maker spaces and fab labs are on a trend to become as ubiquitous as public libraries." ... you mean shrinking and closing from lack of interest?
[16:07:33] <cradek> they're packed, but they're mostly facebook and attention-defecit flash game portals
[16:07:41] <cradek> er I mean computer labs
[16:11:32] <furrywolf> lol
[16:31:28] <Deejay> gn8
[17:13:26] <LatheBuilder2> Cut my first part!
[17:13:47] <LatheBuilder2> Tricky bit now is getting the spindle scaling correct.
[17:15:03] <LatheBuilder2> Digging through the various threads and docs, I seem to be missing something. Using a mesa 5i25/7i77, vfd spindle (0-10v).
[17:17:16] <LatheBuilder2> adjusted the scalemax, minlim, and maxlim. With a setting of 10 and below they function as expected, above 10 and it is like the output saturates.
[17:17:56] <LatheBuilder2> Setting should be: scalemax = 3000, minlim = 0, maxlim = 3000.
[17:18:39] <LatheBuilder2> wondering if there is another parameter functioning as a clamp?
[17:21:50] <LatheBuilder2> if I understand correctly, PCW's 7i77 handles scaling directly. gain not required to be set
[17:23:41] <PCW> what is you maximum spindle RPM (at 10V)?
[17:23:47] <LatheBuilder2> 3k
[17:24:44] <PCW> so scalemax should be 3000, minlimit 0 maxlimit 3000 (for 0 to +10 only)
[17:25:28] <LatheBuilder2> direction pin is separate
[17:26:23] <LatheBuilder2> (checking params on mill, back in a moment)
[17:32:18] <LatheBuilder2> ok, found my test log. the parameters I set are: hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analgout5-[maxlim/minlim/scalemax]. if set to 3000/0/3000, all spindle speed ranges set from 0.00001 to 3000 yield spindle on but barely moving.
[17:34:33] <LatheBuilder2> tested changing parameters one by one and the thing is see is this: adjusting scalemax from 1 thru 10 inclusive yields expected speeds
[17:35:32] <LatheBuilder2> ie I command m3 s5, I get pretty close to half spindle speed. m3 s10 pretty close to full speed
[17:36:52] <LatheBuilder2> if is set scalemax over 10, regardless of maxlimit and minlimit, when the spindle is turned on at any speed commanded it turns on, but only at minimum speed
[17:38:54] <LatheBuilder2> (brb, grabbing copy of hal and ini file)
[17:39:21] <LatheBuilder2> thank you for the help
[17:50:31] <LatheBuilder2> http://imgur.com/Mch8E3r
[17:52:25] <jdh> heh... guy on another channel was just complaining about users taking screen caps of text terminals and sending the pic instead of the text.
[17:53:00] <LatheBuilder2> what is the better way?
[17:53:20] <LatheBuilder2> seems like a lot of text to paste here?
[17:53:40] <LatheBuilder2> sorry, family crisis - back on later
[17:53:44] <jdh> the pic is fine, it was jsut amusing
[17:56:32] <LatheBuilder2> from the .ini http://imgur.com/qUybBBA
[17:57:13] <LatheBuilder2> i seem to remember something about pastebin being good here. trying it out
[17:58:49] <LatheBuilder2> thanks for the memory jog jdh! figured out pastebin. here is the hal file: http://pastebin.com/etvgipvd
[18:00:01] <jdh> his bigger complaint was that the pic was pasted into a word doc
[18:00:25] <LatheBuilder2> that is funny
[18:00:34] <LatheBuilder2> here is the .ini http://pastebin.com/0dVYvP9Q
[18:01:08] <XXCoder> full moons. http://www.optipess.com/comics/2013-03-22-438_Moon-Revenge.png
[18:01:36] <LatheBuilder2> (family crisis passed)
[18:02:44] <XXCoder> LatheBuilder2: from what I read
[18:02:49] <XXCoder> your lathe is working now?
[18:03:03] <LatheBuilder2> mill, yes. it is running right now
[18:03:14] <XXCoder> ahh. nice :)
[18:05:40] <LatheBuilder2> spindle does not run at any speed other than just-barely-on with these settings. If I change scalemax to 10, minlimit to 0 and maxlimit to 10 it runs full speed at a commanded speed of "10" and behaves as expected, except for the scaling.
[18:06:30] <LatheBuilder2> feels like there is another parameter I am missing? An override?
[18:07:23] <XXCoder> unfortunately I dont know enough
[18:07:26] <zeeshan> is there benefit in using the hm2 pins to scale
[18:07:33] <zeeshan> or using linuxcnc component scale
[18:07:39] <zeeshan> for spindle speed? (cause im using the component)
[18:09:12] <LatheBuilder2> the odd thing is for scalemax of 10 and under, it functions linearly. above 10 and zero difference
[18:10:46] <LatheBuilder2> it is latest stable branch build of lcnc, but ubuntu 10.xx LTS
[18:21:14] <CaptHindsight> nice beast for <$5k http://www.ebay.com/itm/MORI-SEIKI-MV-35-40-3-AXIS-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/121716130026
[18:23:12] <cradek> that's the bigger version of mine
[18:25:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITSUI-SEIKI-MODEL-VS5A-Vertical-Machining-Center-S-N-623-/290913041418 another for <$4K
[18:25:14] <XXCoder> "located in usa" nice and clear place.. :P
[18:25:34] <XXCoder> it has more details later but jeez lol
[18:25:34] <LatheBuilder2> i have some debugging to do, now not working even with scalemax 10/minlim 0/maxlim 10. I've changed something else without realizing it
[18:27:14] <PCW> sounds like you are not setting the parameters you think you are
[18:29:12] <PCW> beware that to have parameters in the INI file work depends entirely on the hal file doing the expected thing with them
[18:31:11] <zeeshan> what i love about that mori seiki you posted
[18:31:14] <zeeshan> the overarm for the control panel
[18:31:24] <zeeshan> is prolly more sturdy than a china router!
[18:31:25] <zeeshan> :P
[18:34:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-Seiki-HT25S-CNC-Lathe-With-Over-20-KV45-Tool-Holders-PRICE-LOWERED-/291531406750 $3500 or best
[18:34:31] <zeeshan> wow
[18:34:34] <zeeshan> that is a clean machine
[18:35:03] <CaptHindsight> For parts or not working ... yet
[18:35:16] <zeeshan> glass scales
[18:35:16] <CaptHindsight> perfect for conversion
[18:35:19] <zeeshan> :-)
[18:35:35] <zeeshan> too bad its too far away
[18:35:36] <XXCoder> broken Z
[18:36:02] <XXCoder> and according to em, only issue.
[18:36:27] <XXCoder> NJ million miles away from me
[18:36:34] <XXCoder> and not really interested in lathes lol
[18:36:41] <XXCoder> its nice but I like routers more
[18:37:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nakamura-Tome-TMC-2-CNC-turning-center-12-station-w-Fanuc-controls-/141672968675 in Cali
[18:38:29] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FADAL-4020-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-907-1-/381355884065?hash=item58ca94fe21
[18:38:36] <XXCoder> this is what I use at work more or less
[18:38:50] <XXCoder> bit different model but yeah
[18:39:13] <zeeshan> cool
[18:39:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardinge-HC-Chucker-w-Bandit-CNC-Control-Dunham-Pneumatic-Collet-Closer/371391099863 $1400 or best
[18:39:28] <XXCoder> zeeshan: it works but it does suck in many respects
[18:39:38] <zeeshan> like hoiw
[18:39:42] <XXCoder> and one I linked to is more recent, 90s one. mines 1988
[18:39:48] <XXCoder> "mine" but yea lol
[18:40:18] <XXCoder> zeeshan: for example no chip removal, it drains in back so hard to keep drains clear
[18:40:27] <zeeshan> doh
[18:40:29] <XXCoder> weird interface to send and get files
[18:40:44] <XXCoder> yet in few respects better than 90s hurco
[18:41:19] <zeeshan> http://www.adgrind.com/Studer/S33/Studer_S33_Grey.jpg
[18:41:21] <XXCoder> for one, you can modify value. hurco you have to use cvalculator then input new value
[18:41:27] <XXCoder> that was dumb of hurco
[18:41:30] <zeeshan> this was one of the machines i had to fix at a job a while back
[18:41:35] <zeeshan> its a sexy as hell machine
[18:41:37] <XXCoder> any computer should be able to calculate
[18:41:54] <XXCoder> grinder cnc interesting
[18:42:55] <zeeshan> but the rteason i brought that up
[18:43:02] <zeeshan> you'd think grinding just makes little dinky dusty
[18:43:08] <zeeshan> after 3 days
[18:43:20] <zeeshan> we'd have 90lb of dinky dust particles
[18:43:21] <zeeshan> lol
[18:43:24] <XXCoder> you die from cancer? lol
[18:43:27] <zeeshan> and it had no chip conveyor
[18:43:30] <zeeshan> so it just collected
[18:43:44] <zeeshan> the machine operator had to go inside the machine and scoop it out with a shovel
[18:43:48] <zeeshan> !
[18:43:49] <XXCoder> fun
[18:44:14] <XXCoder> couple of machines at my machine its like that and they DO have chip removers
[18:44:23] <zeeshan> lol
[18:44:24] <XXCoder> because sheer amount of chips
[18:44:38] <XXCoder> barrels worth of chips a day
[18:44:47] <XXCoder> one part a day
[18:45:36] <XXCoder> hmm
[18:45:42] <XXCoder> interesting design http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-complete-kits-/201408088020?hash=item2ee4db87d4
[18:45:42] <XXCoder> look at bottom sbr
[18:56:37] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEmtrqRNA80 they should refer to these as "gunslingers"
[19:05:21] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: man these are expensive up there http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-MILLING-MACHINE-FRESADORA-FRAISEUSE-TOP-Fresatrice-Engraver-/370633129327
[19:07:35] <PetefromTn_> woah that's a big sucker
[19:09:23] <PetefromTn_> I like that lathe too...
[19:11:12] <Tom_itx> you'd think you would at least get servos at that price
[19:13:10] <XXCoder> 130k cheap :P
[19:24:26] <jdh> why are all the cheap lathes in .ca.us
[19:25:14] <furrywolf> I am in .ca.us and there's no cheap lathes here.
[19:25:56] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131549382367
[19:26:28] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271958684343
[19:26:31] <furrywolf> .ca.us is a very big place. :P
[19:26:41] <jdh> so
[19:26:53] <SpeedEvil> jdh: the simple solution is to make an airship that can carry a lathe
[19:27:07] <jdh> everything west of the mississippi is effectively the same place.
[19:27:30] * furrywolf doesn't see a location on the second one
[19:27:43] <jdh> tem location:
[19:27:44] <jdh> San Fernando, California, United State
[19:28:09] <SpeedEvil> May not ship to United Kingdom
[19:29:06] <furrywolf> that's funny. it's not showing me a location. doing a find for fernando also finds nothing.
[19:29:34] <furrywolf> (confirming it's not on the page anywhere)
[19:30:11] <CaptHindsight> $130K CAD, maybe they meant Japanese Yen
[19:30:15] <jdh> the microstar?
[19:30:18] <furrywolf> kik
[19:30:19] <furrywolf> lol
[19:35:42] <zeeshan> man
[19:35:48] <zeeshan> i have an interesting job to do this weekend lol
[19:36:15] <PetefromTn_> you gonna put that rotary back in your car ;)
[19:36:20] <zeeshan> haha nooo
[19:36:21] <zeeshan> dude
[19:36:25] <zeeshan> you might find this interesting
[19:36:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUNMATIC-MODEL-320-CNC-Vertical-Milling-Machine-VMC-/252059932220 near Pete
[19:36:29] <zeeshan> its not much money but its the part..
[19:36:33] <zeeshan> this guy is bringing 17" wheels
[19:36:38] <zeeshan> he wants the center bores bored out by 4mm
[19:36:49] <zeeshan> it'll be interesting to fit it on the mikron
[19:36:51] <zeeshan> and set it up
[19:37:02] <PetefromTn_> should be pretty easy I think
[19:37:17] <zeeshan> well i cant rtest it directly on the wheel rim
[19:37:31] <zeeshan> cause it wont be square?
[19:37:50] <zeeshan> https://youtu.be/5LMysVxGde0
[19:37:53] <zeeshan> hmm
[19:38:00] <zeeshan> this guy looks like he's got it on the the rim
[19:38:06] <zeeshan> maybe it will be square.. ill check
[19:38:15] <PetefromTn_> why wouldn't it be square?
[19:38:27] <zeeshan> cause that side of the wheel sees curb rash
[19:38:41] <zeeshan> but maybe i can parallel it up
[19:38:44] <PetefromTn_> its a thru bore no?
[19:38:45] <zeeshan> to avoid crap spots
[19:38:47] <CaptHindsight> it just has to clear the hub
[19:39:03] <CaptHindsight> so +- 1mm
[19:39:08] <zeeshan> no its not a thru bore
[19:39:10] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: no
[19:39:16] <zeeshan> these are hubcentric wheels
[19:39:23] <zeeshan> so +/- 0.001
[19:39:35] <CaptHindsight> the tire flex should take care of that :)
[19:39:35] <zeeshan> well -0 +0.002 i mean
[19:40:17] <PetefromTn_> you could put it on 123 blocks and indicate in the back of the hub and shim appropriately if you are worried about it
[19:40:22] <jdh> why not a boring head?
[19:40:30] <zeeshan> jdh why use a boring head
[19:40:32] <zeeshan> when you can cnc it!
[19:40:48] <PetefromTn_> I would use a boring head but you said it was not a thru bore
[19:40:57] <zeeshan> why though!!
[19:41:03] <zeeshan> circular interpolation works so well
[19:41:07] <PetefromTn_> perfect circle?
[19:41:14] <zeeshan> remember i did those hubs
[19:41:19] <zeeshan> they were all within a couple tenths of runout
[19:41:25] <zeeshan> gotta trust the machine
[19:41:53] <zeeshan> if was a cnc bridgeport conversion
[19:41:56] <zeeshan> maybe no trust :P
[19:42:00] <zeeshan> cincinatti -- yes trust!
[19:42:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-MILACRON-10VC-1250-A-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/141751724499 $6,500 or best
[19:42:17] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i am looking at this monster cinci lathe
[19:42:28] <PetefromTn_> Oh I trust my machine just fine..but nothing wrong with a boring head..
[19:42:36] * furrywolf wants a VMC
[19:42:42] <PetefromTn_> and it is precisely adjustable
[19:42:58] <PetefromTn_> thats a CNC mill no ?
[19:43:14] <zeeshan> no i was looking at a milacron avenger
[19:43:24] <PetefromTn_> Gotta go to the store and pickup movies...BBL
[19:43:43] <furrywolf> a) movies suck, b) movie stores still exist? lol
[19:43:57] * furrywolf thought netflix put them out of business
[19:44:08] <PetefromTn_> no grocery stores exist....movies are at the redbox out front ;)
[19:44:49] <CaptHindsight> how do you torrent from the redbox?
[19:45:07] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/GXuEMwe.jpg
[19:45:08] <zeeshan> wow
[19:45:09] <jdh> go to the redbox,get the dvd, rip, torrent
[19:45:10] <zeeshan> that is COOL
[19:45:16] <zeeshan> haha jdh
[19:45:26] <jdh> you need a bigger lathe
[19:45:32] <zeeshan> i do!!
[19:45:33] <zeeshan> this is sweet!!
[19:45:38] <furrywolf> redbox?
[19:45:39] <jdh> why does one need to bore car hubs?
[19:45:57] <zeeshan> depends
[19:46:02] <zeeshan> some older cars, people wanna put new wheels on em
[19:46:05] <CaptHindsight> for bigger hub caps
[19:46:31] <furrywolf> I have an older car... my problem is non-standard lug pattern, not hub size. :P
[19:46:36] <jdh> heh... I assumed all car hubs were the same.
[19:46:45] <zeeshan> hellllllllll no
[19:47:01] <furrywolf> the usual solution, which I'll probably do one of these days, is to re-drill the flanges for a different lug pattern.
[19:47:27] <zeeshan> whats wrong with hub spacers
[19:47:34] <zeeshan> you can be a ricer
[19:47:41] <zeeshan> and have your wheels stick way the F out
[19:47:55] <furrywolf> a) they don't make them for this lug pattern, b) then the wheels stick out for no reason. :P
[19:48:25] <jdh> make spacers out of stablized wood
[19:48:29] <zeeshan> ROFL
[19:48:40] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i thought you bought a mill
[19:48:44] <zeeshan> why are you complaining
[19:48:53] <zeeshan> all your life problems are solved now
[19:49:00] <furrywolf> the subaru lug pattern is only shared by some weird peugot car that no one makes anything for.... and very few companies make things for old subarus.
[19:49:43] <zeeshan> i think i scared the stablizedf wood guy
[19:49:44] <zeeshan> away
[19:49:47] <zeeshan> when i quoted him
[19:50:04] <zeeshan> its hard to explain to people how involved the manufacturing of something is
[19:50:07] <furrywolf> fortunately, it's the same bolt circle as the standard toyota/nissan 6-bolt, just with 4 bolts instead of 6. so you keep two studs, drill four new holes and press in four new studs, and then you can pick between any of the zillions of available toyota or nissan rims and products. :P
[19:50:09] <zeeshan> when they dont know anything about it
[19:50:25] <zeeshan> what
[19:50:30] <zeeshan> there arre 6 bolt hubs?
[19:50:32] * zeeshan has never seen
[19:51:10] <furrywolf> ... every single toyota and nissan 4x4 truck...
[19:51:15] <zeeshan> oh trucks
[19:51:18] <zeeshan> boooooooring
[19:52:28] <furrywolf> subarus use 4 bolts, but on the same large bolt circle as the 6-bolt truck rims. much larger than just about any other car... so it's strong, but no rims available.
[19:53:48] <furrywolf> sharing the same bolt circle makes it very easy to modify the wheel flanges. some people re-drill the rims instead, but if you redrill the flanges, you get the extra strength of the extra two bolts, it doesn't look stupid, and you can easily change rims.
[19:55:06] <furrywolf> the subaru drivetrain is about as sturdy as a 4x4 truck, so only makes sense to fully switch to the truck bolt pattern. :P
[19:55:21] <furrywolf> actually, subaru's axles are probably stronger than toyota. LOL
[19:55:53] <CaptHindsight> do the subarus use birfields?
[19:56:11] <furrywolf> no
[19:56:44] <furrywolf> rzeppa outer, tripod inner. (standard front-wheel-drive CV shaft design, on the rear as well as the front, and nice and thick)
[19:57:19] <furrywolf> people run 33x12.50s on subarus without breaking them... but I know yota people who can change a birfield on the trail in 30 minutes... from practice. :)
[19:59:19] <CaptHindsight> I've only worn them out, never broken any
[19:59:53] <furrywolf> I've broken one subaru cv joint, but it was worn out to start with. it had been clicking for about six years... loudlyl.
[19:59:56] <furrywolf> loudly
[20:00:50] <CaptHindsight> can you swap the outers over to the other side of the axles?
[20:00:53] <furrywolf> then I made a u-turn on a road up a steep hill, wheel turned fully to lock, with a lot of throttle (very steep hill)... and went about 6" forwards and started rolling backwards. :)
[20:01:04] <furrywolf> yes. subaru axles are the same left and right.
[20:01:32] <CaptHindsight> thats an old swap to get some extra miles out of the clickety ones
[20:01:50] <furrywolf> lol
[20:02:02] <furrywolf> by the time you pull them, might as well just put new axles in. :P
[20:02:35] <CaptHindsight> what! when you can squeeze another 20k miles out of them
[20:02:43] <CaptHindsight> what a waste :)
[20:02:49] <furrywolf> when I get 5-axis working, I want to machine a rzeppa, just for the practice. not for a vehicle, just for a desk toy.
[20:02:55] <Tom_itx> zeeshan ever use abaqus?
[20:03:11] <CaptHindsight> http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/ocdropzone/locker%20install/brokenBEFA.jpg
[20:03:13] <Tom_itx> or Simula
[20:03:50] <CaptHindsight> needs a bit more than just new grease and seals
[20:04:18] <furrywolf> lol
[20:04:42] <furrywolf> I need to learn how to work on the alxes on my jeep truck... I have an ARB and a Detroit waiting to go in them, just need time, energy, money, etc. heh.
[20:05:31] <furrywolf> you know, I wouldn't use any site that displayed such utterly idiotic advertising alongside my images.
[20:06:33] <furrywolf> also, why the hell doesn't abp kill those? I need more filters. :)
[20:12:31] <furrywolf> I got an ARB for the front axle and a Detroit for the rear axle... should substantially improve offroad abilities. it's a 1.5t truck with leaf springs all around, no flex at all... so lifting up a diagonal pair of wheels and sitting there is its usual way of getting stuck.
[20:21:36] * SpeedEvil passes CaptHindsight a big tube of jb-weld
[20:22:49] <furrywolf> 3d print a new axle housing! 3d printing can solve all our problems, right? :P
[20:25:44] <SpeedEvil> there are printers that can
[20:25:56] <SpeedEvil> They do not fit on your desk
[20:26:51] <furrywolf> heh. I wouldn't mind a SLS machine..
[20:27:13] <SpeedEvil> e-beam is just sexy
[20:28:56] <flyback> you could
[20:29:10] <flyback> I seen the shit they are doing 3d printing really intricate sand molds
[20:33:17] <malcom2073> Hey it's flyback.
[20:33:57] <malcom2073> I wouldn't mind 3d printed sand forms, but lost-pla casting could be cool.
[20:37:04] <Tom_itx> who let him in here?
[20:37:59] <furrywolf> lol
[20:38:17] <malcom2073> I think he lurks here, and talks once every 5-6 months
[20:38:48] <Tom_itx> best that way i suppose
[20:39:18] <SpeedEvil> Lost PLA casting is already a thing
[20:50:19] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: yes
[20:51:50] <zeeshan> is it friday again
[20:51:52] <zeeshan> !
[20:52:26] <zeeshan> so who here has a 5 axis
[20:52:29] <zeeshan> and wants to make this handles for me? :P
[21:02:02] <Tom_itx> hah!
[21:02:26] <zeeshan> i quoted himn the price today
[21:02:33] <zeeshan> he's going to get back to me sunday
[21:02:35] <malcom2073> 4 should do it
[21:02:40] <zeeshan> nahh
[21:02:42] <zeeshan> you really need 5
[21:02:49] <zeeshan> to make it easier
[21:02:49] <malcom2073> you'd have to reclamp anyway to get it, even on a 5
[21:03:00] <zeeshan> only 1 reclamp on 5 axis
[21:03:04] <zeeshan> to get bottom
[21:03:13] <zeeshan> my friend gave me a really good suggestion
[21:03:26] <zeeshan> he's like just machine all the important things like holes, pockets, etc while it's rectangular
[21:03:41] <malcom2073> Def
[21:03:42] <zeeshan> and then finsih the surface at the end
[21:03:53] <zeeshan> but my only issue is, i still gotta finish the bottom after again!
[21:04:14] <zeeshan> but his method allows me to stack of them at a time
[21:04:18] <zeeshan> and do the important features on 10 at a time
[21:04:54] <zeeshan> oh well, i dont wanna think about it anymore
[21:04:56] <zeeshan> till he gets back :P
[21:05:30] <zeeshan> i dont think ill be able to do big projects like this in the future
[21:05:40] <zeeshan> i might have a full time job on top of masters starting next week
[21:22:34] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: wanna make some of these handles? :P
[21:25:47] <PetefromTn_> you mean the Venus Demilo's?
[21:26:05] <zeeshan> yes
[21:26:10] <furrywolf> monolith defecations?
[21:26:11] <PetefromTn_> why hell no LOL
[21:26:16] <zeeshan> hahah
[21:26:23] <zeeshan> i honestly dont wanna make em
[21:26:27] <PetefromTn_> why are you getting tired of em
[21:26:30] <zeeshan> yes
[21:26:37] <zeeshan> i can do the stainless plates
[21:26:39] <zeeshan> but i dont wanna do the bodies
[21:27:00] <zeeshan> i might have a full time job starting next week
[21:27:01] <PetefromTn_> they are certainly not simple
[21:27:04] <zeeshan> and ill be really stumped
[21:27:10] <zeeshan> i wont be able to make enough of them
[21:27:19] <zeeshan> on top of school and stuff..
[21:27:19] <furrywolf> tell him machining is too much work and you'll mold them from resin instead. :P
[21:27:30] <zeeshan> lol
[21:27:38] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i gave him a high number to machine em
[21:27:44] <zeeshan> hoping he wont accept
[21:27:59] <zeeshan> i really he hope he doesn't -- and outsources them to someone else
[21:28:02] <zeeshan> and i can make the plates for cheap
[21:28:29] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/variacmount.jpg use whatever material those are molded from.
[21:28:36] <PetefromTn_> did you get paid for all the design and CAD CAM work?
[21:28:41] <zeeshan> yes PetefromTn_
[21:28:45] <furrywolf> some form of really pretty phenolic
[21:28:46] <zeeshan> he paid in full
[21:28:50] <zeeshan> its his property now
[21:28:55] <zeeshan> he can go to anyone really..
[21:29:04] <zeeshan> i encouraged him to find somoene with a 5 axis!
[21:29:32] <zeeshan> honestly, if i could commit time for 4 hours per piece
[21:29:37] <furrywolf> by the way, if anyone knows what that material is called, let me know. :P
[21:29:39] <zeeshan> i wouldn't mind
[21:29:46] <zeeshan> if he wanted 5 id be ok
[21:29:57] <zeeshan> but im not setup to do production work, this is my hobby side business work
[21:30:01] <zeeshan> not something i take on for stress
[21:30:06] <zeeshan> which is what this is becoming to be
[21:30:23] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that looks like stablized wood..
[21:30:50] <furrywolf> I think it's some form of cloth-reinforced phenolic
[21:31:09] <PetefromTn_> to be honest it looked like a pretty complex project from the get go it would be hard to be competitive with that unless there was a good bit of money in them...
[21:31:27] <zeeshan> pete he's willing to pay 150 a piece
[21:31:30] <zeeshan> cad
[21:31:42] <zeeshan> inlcuding the stainless plates
[21:31:57] <zeeshan> 40 of each type of stainless plates can be prolly be made in a day or two
[21:32:04] <zeeshan> but the forms are extremely time consuming
[21:32:04] <furrywolf> I wish I'd kept that transformer. I've needed it a few times.
[21:32:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah man there is a LOT of setup in each one of those
[21:32:42] <furrywolf> find him a moldable material of suitable properties
[21:32:52] <zeeshan> furry i suggested that to him
[21:32:53] <zeeshan> but he doesnt want that
[21:32:58] <furrywolf> epoxy granite. :P
[21:33:00] <zeeshan> he's pretty solid on the wood
[21:33:26] <zeeshan> a part like this -- just the form
[21:33:32] <zeeshan> would cost $300 per piece on a 5 axis
[21:33:34] <furrywolf> you only have 3-axis?
[21:33:42] <zeeshan> for it to be made worthwhile
[21:33:45] <zeeshan> yes
[21:34:04] <furrywolf> that's at least a 4-axis part. 3 means you'll need to build suitable jigs to rotate it without losing alignment.
[21:34:06] <zeeshan> i only have like 5 hours of side business time in a weekday
[21:34:15] <zeeshan> you dont need 4 axis
[21:34:25] <newradio> whats the best desktop cnc machine i can buy?
[21:34:28] <zeeshan> let me show you why..
[21:34:38] <newradio> I'm looking to mostly cut out aluminum parts for my prototypes
[21:34:44] <newradio> gears/bolts etc
[21:34:45] <zeeshan> tormach
[21:34:50] <furrywolf> yes, I know you can do it on 3. but you'll need to waste a lot of time reclamping, or build a rotating jig.
[21:34:52] <malcom2073> Yeah tormach
[21:34:55] <zeeshan> no furrywolf
[21:35:05] <zeeshan> all the surfacing can be done in 2 setups
[21:35:05] <newradio> zeeshan: was that for me?
[21:35:09] <zeeshan> newradio: yes
[21:35:11] <newradio> tormach is too big?
[21:35:20] <zeeshan> tormach looks pretty small to me..
[21:35:25] <malcom2073> newradio: You want to do metal yeah?
[21:35:25] <newradio> desktop cnc please? something i can keep in 2 feet x 2 feet?
[21:35:30] <newradio> malcom2073: yes
[21:35:41] <furrywolf> gears/bolts means you probably want at least 4 axis, which rules out all the cheap machines.
[21:35:56] <newradio> http://www.pocketnc.com/ - i would buy this if it was available
[21:35:58] <furrywolf> you can go with a Sherline with their CNC rotatary table accessory.
[21:36:06] <newradio> furrywolf: look at pocket nc
[21:36:09] <newradio> cheap and 5-axis
[21:36:16] <furrywolf> and non-existant.
[21:36:26] <malcom2073> And not capable
[21:36:35] <malcom2073> That thing would probably cut plastic/wood ok
[21:36:36] <newradio> why non - capable?
[21:36:44] <newradio> in the videos they show alum?
[21:36:53] <malcom2073> Yeah, but what tolerance do they get with it?
[21:36:54] <furrywolf> cheap, 5-axis, existing - pick two. :P
[21:37:21] <newradio> furrywolf: 5-axis + comact = desktop ?
[21:37:21] <malcom2073> Also yeah, it's fantasy
[21:37:22] <furrywolf> that looks overly tiny.
[21:37:22] <malcom2073> doesn't exist
[21:38:14] <newradio> k - whats price range is 5-axis ? existing and reliable?
[21:38:14] <furrywolf> http://www.sherline.com/8540pg.htm with the 4-th axis option.
[21:38:17] <newradio> what size?
[21:38:48] <newradio> sherline looks pretty compact - at least in the picture
[21:38:52] <malcom2073> newradio: 5 axis software isn't cheap either heh
[21:39:05] <newradio> malcom2073: 10k ?
[21:39:26] <malcom2073> newradio: Typically the "email us for a quote" sort of deal, I can't afford to ask.
[21:39:29] <furrywolf> yes, the sherline is quite compact.
[21:39:44] <furrywolf> you're looking at around $3k for the ready-to-make-chips sherline 4-axis setup.
[21:39:48] <newradio> pcnc 1100 - how good is that?
[21:40:05] <newradio> how many axis?
[21:40:19] <malcom2073> I know a guy with the 1100, he loves it
[21:40:28] <furrywolf> how should I know how many axis some random part number you give is? read their website?
[21:40:40] <zeeshan> furrywolf: noob
[21:40:45] <zeeshan> you dont know pcnc 1100??
[21:40:45] <zeeshan> :P
[21:41:07] <zeeshan> the pcnc 1100 is an 1100 axis machine
[21:41:10] <os1r1s> newradio: The one guy I know that bought one had a lot of issues with the electronics.
[21:41:19] <newradio> malcom2073: they say polyphase motion tehcnology - no axis info
[21:41:22] <os1r1s> newradio: Once he got those ironed out he has been happy
[21:41:26] <malcom2073> No idea what those words mean
[21:41:33] <os1r1s> malcom2073: It uses steppers
[21:41:34] <newradio> how many axis does it have?
[21:41:37] <zeeshan> OOO shittttttttt
[21:41:39] <zeeshan> polyphase!!!!!!!1
[21:41:43] <malcom2073> Lol
[21:41:51] <os1r1s> newradio: 3-4 typically
[21:41:53] <zeeshan> serious business
[21:41:56] <furrywolf> actually, $3500 for the sherline, since you'll want the package that includes useful things like a vise, chuck, etc. :)
[21:41:56] <malcom2073> newradio: The guy I know only has the 3 axis, though I hear they make a 4th for it
[21:41:56] <newradio> oh 4-axis kits
[21:41:58] <zeeshan> tormach standard for 10 k
[21:42:01] <zeeshan> is 3 axis
[21:42:02] <malcom2073> Why do you need 5? Making turbines?
[21:42:12] <zeeshan> malcom2073: he's making handles like me
[21:42:12] <zeeshan> :-(
[21:42:17] <malcom2073> lol
[21:42:26] <furrywolf> malcom2073; the things he mentioned sound like 4 axis to me.
[21:42:40] <os1r1s> zeeshan: Why can't you do your handles with a continuous 4th axis?
[21:42:53] <zeeshan> because a 4th axis doesnt help me at all
[21:42:55] <newradio> Gears + wheel adapters + nuts + bolts + shaft encosures + ...
[21:42:58] <zeeshan> it helps maybe reduce 1 setup
[21:42:58] <zeeshan> thats it
[21:43:10] <zeeshan> im posting some pics so we can all be on the same page
[21:43:18] <zeeshan> and i'd love to see you guys' opinion
[21:43:23] <zeeshan> and show you why i dont want to do anymore
[21:43:25] <PetefromTn_> Oh shit more pics ;)
[21:43:28] <newradio> malcom2073: sherline vs pcnc 1100 - how do they compare?
[21:43:29] <malcom2073> newradio: All that is 4th axis territory. Sculptures, turbines, etc require 5th
[21:43:32] <newradio> apart from price
[21:43:38] <malcom2073> newradio: Totally different categories of machines
[21:43:39] <zeeshan> newradio: why are you comparing apples and oranges
[21:43:44] <zeeshan> thats like saying
[21:43:56] <malcom2073> newradio: How does a murcielago compare to a jetta?
[21:43:56] <zeeshan> a car vs bicycle
[21:44:03] <newradio> so pcnc is a car?
[21:44:07] <zeeshan> it can be
[21:44:09] <malcom2073> One gets great gas mileage, one gets you speeding tickets :P
[21:44:10] <zeeshan> its got 1100 axis
[21:44:23] <zeeshan> it was even in the transformer movie
[21:44:51] <malcom2073> newradio: pcnc is a full sized mill. sherline is a hobbiest mill
[21:44:56] <furrywolf> the pcnc1100 is quite a bit larger. it's not desktop. it comes with its own desk.
[21:44:59] <malcom2073> less tolerance, less strength, less capability, but significantly smaller
[21:45:03] <malcom2073> and cheaper
[21:45:07] <furrywolf> the sherline is about 50lbs complete with accessories. :P
[21:45:24] <newradio> how much space do i need to own a pcnc? air conditioned space i am guessing? or can i keep it outside? :)
[21:45:35] <malcom2073> You can't keep *any* machine outside
[21:45:45] <furrywolf> the sherline is much more similar to the non-existant tiny machine you pasted.
[21:45:59] <furrywolf> malcom2073: tell that to my machines. :P
[21:46:01] <malcom2073> You don't need air conditioned space if you're religious about your oiling, but it's highly recommended to keep the space humidity controlled.
[21:46:07] <malcom2073> furrywolf: :P
[21:46:27] <malcom2073> newradio: Are you the designer, engineer, machinest, or all three?
[21:46:47] <newradio> malcom2073: i currently use a 3d printer to print parts for a robot i am working on
[21:46:58] <newradio> malcom2073: the PLA is giving away from the motor to the wheels
[21:47:06] <malcom2073> The sherline will make more than adequate part replacements for that
[21:47:07] <newradio> hence the thought of getting a CNC
[21:47:19] <furrywolf> pcnc 1100 is 1400lbs. sherline is 33lbs.
[21:47:33] <malcom2073> If you have money to burn, or are doing this for a business, I'd get something more serious, but that sherline is probably perfectly fine for home hobbiest use, and as an added bonus, it's tiny and easily movable
[21:47:36] <furrywolf> as you can see, completely different scales of machine.
[21:48:03] <zeeshan> i'd appreciate you guys taking a look at this for 2-3 min:
[21:48:07] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/WuyB5
[21:48:14] <zeeshan> this is the general plan i had
[21:48:16] <furrywolf> you pasted a teeny tiny machine that didn't exist. the sherline is a tiny machine that does exist. :)
[21:48:20] <malcom2073> It will be able to do gears, screws, adapters, enclosures, etc if you stick the 4th axis on it
[21:48:48] <newradio> malcom2073: what size of pieces?
[21:48:58] <malcom2073> newradio: As large as the working envelope of the mill.
[21:49:01] <newradio> furrywolf: do they sell it as a kit or pre-assembled?
[21:49:11] <newradio> malcom2073: how much in inches?
[21:49:13] <furrywolf> newradio: pre-assembled.
[21:49:16] <malcom2073> newradio: Read the website, I don't know
[21:49:36] <malcom2073> You've not told us how big you need, only that you need small
[21:49:36] <malcom2073> :P
[21:49:51] <furrywolf> you can also buy the "cnc-ready" mill for a lot less money and find your own steppers, drivers, and computer.
[21:50:09] <zeeshan> steppers dont belong on a mill
[21:50:12] <zeeshan> but thats just me :P
[21:50:22] <zeeshan> i hope pete's got my back on this one
[21:50:32] <malcom2073> zeeshan: If I had steppers, my mill woudl be running right now
[21:50:33] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the sherline weighs less than each of your servos. :P
[21:50:34] <malcom2073> So :P
[21:50:46] <newradio> malcom2073: 24" x 15" x 15" volume is my total bot - so parts are accordingly designed.
[21:50:47] <zeeshan> send me your mill
[21:50:51] <zeeshan> you're not a good owner of it!
[21:50:51] <zeeshan> :P
[21:50:57] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I still go with what I said before... that device is too ugly to exist. don't contribute to the uglyness of the planet by producing them.
[21:51:07] <malcom2073> newradio: I have no idea what is considered accordingly in your mind. You need to figure out what kind of part envelope you need before you purchase a machine
[21:51:10] <zeeshan> furrywolf: be a help
[21:51:11] <zeeshan> :{
[21:51:14] <zeeshan> dont be discouraging
[21:51:20] <zeeshan> im already quite discouraged in making them
[21:51:24] <malcom2073> zeeshan: How much does it cost to freight 3000lbs? :P
[21:51:30] <malcom2073> Be cheaper for you to buy me a mesa board ;)
[21:51:34] <zeeshan> haha
[21:51:51] <zeeshan> well become donald trump started running for prez
[21:52:00] <zeeshan> the mexicans would bring it to me for cheap
[21:52:06] <furrywolf> are the side pocket and end hole square with each other?
[21:52:09] <zeeshan> :(
[21:52:15] <zeeshan> furrywolf: which step
[21:52:31] <furrywolf> 2B and 3
[21:52:46] <zeeshan> yes theyre square with each other
[21:52:49] <newradio> nomad 883 is 3-axis, right?
[21:53:26] <malcom2073> What is a nomad 883?
[21:53:27] <newradio> malcom2073: 9"x 5" x 6" is what the space coverage looks like for sherline
[21:53:34] <newradio> malcom2073: google - desktop cnc
[21:53:41] <malcom2073> Heh the 883 is a toy
[21:53:49] <malcom2073> It will not do aluminum well
[21:53:53] <furrywolf> and 5 is square with them too?
[21:53:54] <malcom2073> Probably fine enough to replace 3d printed parts
[21:53:56] <malcom2073> though
[21:54:40] <malcom2073> You'll be hard pressed to fit a 4th axis on the 883 though
[21:54:42] <malcom2073> tight space
[21:54:53] <PetefromTn_> what the hell is an 883?
[21:54:59] <zeeshan> yes 5 is square with it too
[21:55:00] <malcom2073> http://www.carbide3d.com/
[21:55:09] <malcom2073> Another kickstarter "EVeryone can own a cnc mill!" kit
[21:55:30] <newradio> malcom2073: they are shipping, - so not just another kickstarter ;)
[21:55:31] <PetefromTn_> I thought we were talking about a milling machine here?
[21:55:36] <malcom2073> newradio: Not what I meant.
[21:55:42] <malcom2073> newradio: I mean quality wise
[21:56:03] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you made me realize
[21:56:08] <zeeshan> i shoulda posted a fucking coordinate system in the images
[21:56:10] <zeeshan> lol
[21:56:16] <zeeshan> wait ther eis one
[21:56:18] <zeeshan> but its kinda invisible
[21:56:43] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan no matter how you stack it that is a pretty complicated part
[21:56:55] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: but you know man what im hoping is
[21:57:00] <zeeshan> there is some way to machine say each step
[21:57:02] <zeeshan> on 10 of them at a time
[21:57:07] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:57:10] <zeeshan> so i can just screw off for a while
[21:57:11] <PetefromTn_> its a process
[21:57:13] <zeeshan> and not have to do crap
[21:57:25] <zeeshan> look at the stock im dealing it
[21:57:30] <zeeshan> there isn't much to grab
[21:57:42] <zeeshan> at most i have .25-.375" to grab
[21:57:43] <zeeshan> at the very end
[21:57:56] <newradio> zeeshan: what cad software do you use ?
[21:58:19] <newradio> malcom2073: are there other cnc machines like sherline?
[21:58:19] <zeeshan> i dont use cad
[21:58:24] <zeeshan> those are hand drawn
[21:58:28] <zeeshan> and hand coded
[21:58:33] <newradio> zeeshan: wow - how do you go from there to gcode?
[21:58:36] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[21:58:48] <malcom2073> newradio: I'm sure there are, though I've not looked that hard at machines that small
[21:58:49] <zeeshan> i learned my skills from archivist
[21:59:03] <newradio> malcom2073: what do yo use?
[21:59:29] <PetefromTn_> that part would be a lot easier if you could do it on a fourth axis and be able to screw down the stock from the bottom...
[21:59:45] <furrywolf> my first thought on how to do it would be to start with 5, while the block is still square so no jig needed. then mount to the bottom with a plate (include a couple internal, hidden holes you can put self-tapping screws into if needed). have a couple fixtures this plate quickly attaches to. a right-angle one that lets you mount it horizontal either up or down for 1, 2A, 2B, a 30 degree block for 4, and vertically for 3.
[22:00:19] <furrywolf> then setup is pretty much entirely eliminated.
[22:00:47] <malcom2073> newradio: full size mill
[22:00:54] <newradio> which one?
[22:00:57] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: i think it would only simplify step 1 and 2
[22:01:29] <zeeshan> if i had 5 axis
[22:01:32] <PetefromTn_> 1,2,2b
[22:01:48] <furrywolf> I see no reason to ever not do 5 first, since it'll be much easier while the block isn't a stupid lump.
[22:01:49] <malcom2073> I used my dads Excello: http://carpenterswoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1-Excello-with-centroid.jpg until I get my Clausing running: http://mikesshop.net/millmove/image030.jpg
[22:01:53] <zeeshan> i could do steps 1 2ab 3 4 6 7
[22:01:57] <zeeshan> in one step
[22:02:03] <PetefromTn_> tilt fourth axis and do the rest but the bottom
[22:02:05] <zeeshan> and then do the bottom at the very end
[22:02:32] <furrywolf> no, don't do bottom at the very end. to do it, you'll need to clamp to your stupid lump. do it first while the block is square. :)
[22:02:43] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[22:02:52] <zeeshan> but i still need to finish the bottom to size
[22:03:01] <zeeshan> so i gotta clamp it anyway?
[22:03:12] <zeeshan> someone else plz do this part for me
[22:03:17] <zeeshan> $100 per piece!
[22:03:18] <zeeshan> <3
[22:03:22] <furrywolf> so profile the 1/4" below it at the same time you're doing 5.
[22:03:26] <zeeshan> let me make a couple bucks on top :P
[22:03:57] <zeeshan> okay then i gotta grab that lumpy pos surface
[22:04:00] <zeeshan> vs a rect block
[22:04:01] <PetefromTn_> a 3d part like that with machining on almost every side should be a good bit more than that price in my view
[22:04:09] <zeeshan> pete 300 right?
[22:04:15] <furrywolf> you know, if I had my shoptask working, I might do it for that... because with suitable jigs (see my suggestion above), there'd only be a few minutes of actual work, mostly just waiting for it to do the two profiling passes.
[22:04:15] <zeeshan> he wont pay more than 150
[22:04:42] <zeeshan> suprisngly
[22:04:46] <zeeshan> those profile passes are 36 mins total
[22:04:56] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I would have to figure out exactly how I was gonna machine it and figure the actual time as best as CAM can tell me
[22:05:18] <zeeshan> according to cam
[22:05:25] <zeeshan> total time to machine is 36 min
[22:05:25] <furrywolf> when doing 5, also cut the block to shape for 1/4" past the bottom. there's no reason to ever put yourself in the place of needed to clamp the profiled shape.
[22:05:30] <zeeshan> not surfacing time
[22:05:39] <zeeshan> surfacing is with a 1/2" ball bill
[22:05:42] <zeeshan> 30 ipm, 3000 rpm
[22:05:47] <zeeshan> 15ipm plunge rate
[22:05:59] <furrywolf> my machine doesn't go that fast. :P
[22:06:11] <zeeshan> seriously
[22:06:12] <furrywolf> actually, I bet I could make those on the sherline...
[22:06:16] <zeeshan> cam is really accurate for itme
[22:06:28] <zeeshan> its usually within a couple mins from the time in simulation
[22:06:30] <furrywolf> (3000rpm)
[22:06:45] <zeeshan> its the setups that brings the job time per part to 3 hours
[22:06:52] <furrywolf> I'd definitely make a jig. other than the first step, which you called 5, I'd never clamp the part.
[22:07:05] <furrywolf> yes. that's why I gave a way to do it with no setups.
[22:07:13] <zeeshan> furrywolf: im not following you
[22:07:15] <zeeshan> if i start with 5
[22:07:19] <zeeshan> and i bore, pocket, face the bottom
[22:07:37] <zeeshan> now i gotta grab the part again
[22:07:43] <furrywolf> bore, pocket, face, and profile a half inch down on the sides.
[22:07:44] <zeeshan> im grabbing in an area where i need to surface
[22:07:44] <PetefromTn_> if there is 40 of them I would be looking at at least 200-250 each and I would get half up front and buy a 4th axis to do them LOL..
[22:07:50] <furrywolf> no, don't grab the part ever again.
[22:07:59] <furrywolf> screw a flat plate to the bottom.
[22:08:01] <newradio> any suggestions for a laser cutter?
[22:08:02] <zeeshan> lol pete
[22:08:18] <newradio> that can cut metal? that can cut acrylic ? Desktop size preferably
[22:08:19] <PetefromTn_> I would tilt the fourth axis for the other ops
[22:08:21] <zeeshan> my friend gave me a cool suggestion
[22:08:25] <zeeshan> he actually said something similar
[22:08:28] <zeeshan> he said machine step 5 first
[22:08:34] <zeeshan> and then shove a rod through the bore
[22:08:38] <furrywolf> if needed, drill a couple holes during the pocketing that you can screw a couple self-tapping screws into, that won't be visible once the project is assembled.
[22:08:49] <zeeshan> and use an expanding mandrel
[22:08:52] <furrywolf> I thought of that, but then you need to bore through in one step, which is a more complex jig.
[22:08:58] <zeeshan> and then now you can grab it however you want from there on
[22:09:12] <furrywolf> and it'd make doing the top harder.
[22:09:38] <zeeshan> are you sure youre follwoing me?
[22:09:44] <zeeshan> :P
[22:09:54] <newradio> malcom2073: do you use laser cutters?
[22:10:03] <malcom2073> newradio: Not yet, it's on my lsit heh but pretty far down
[22:10:05] <furrywolf> I think I'm lagging. heh.
[22:10:17] <newradio> malcom2073: whats on your list next? :)
[22:10:17] <PetefromTn_> expanding mandrel on a wood piece...not the best idea
[22:10:30] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: why?
[22:10:31] <malcom2073> Getting my mill running so I can stop hanging out at my dads house using his :-P
[22:10:32] <zeeshan> you think itll rip off?
[22:10:32] <furrywolf> if you use an expanding mandrel, that'd work. but that's just the same idea as I have using screws to hold it to a plate.
[22:10:39] <PetefromTn_> probably crack it
[22:10:42] <furrywolf> in terms of future setups.
[22:10:52] <zeeshan> pete if it leaves imprints
[22:10:54] <zeeshan> as long as they're symmetric
[22:10:58] <zeeshan> it might actually be beneficial
[22:11:03] <zeeshan> cause we're epoxying the battery tubes in
[22:11:08] <zeeshan> but if it cracks that will suck
[22:11:36] <zeeshan> sometimes i hate myself
[22:11:42] <zeeshan> cause i dwell on this stupid shit for no reason
[22:11:50] <zeeshan> i shoulda never accepted this job from day one :P
[22:11:57] <zeeshan> but noooo i had to be a curious bastard and try something new
[22:12:01] <zeeshan> i need to stay in my cave
[22:12:06] <newradio> does anyone keep their cnc in their garage? :)
[22:12:18] <zeeshan> no newradio
[22:12:24] <zeeshan> but i will keep you in a box in my garage
[22:12:28] <furrywolf> the plate can be simple. the block (with step 5 done, plus the sides trimmed for 1/2" down from the bottom) is fastened to the middle of the plate with screws. the plate could have a raised square area to fit the pocket for a precision alignment. the plate has, say, two holes, a bit away from the block. screw shoulder bolts into these (or any other way of a reasonably repeatable alignment) into the jigs for the next steps.
[22:12:42] <malcom2073> newradio: Most people heh
[22:12:45] <malcom2073> bit big to keep in the kitchen
[22:13:33] <malcom2073> I'm off, night!
[22:13:36] <zeeshan> gnite
[22:13:53] <newradio> zeeshan: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/anybody-run-cnc-mill-out-their-residential-garage-188410/
[22:13:53] <furrywolf> the first jig is 90 degrees. since you drilled the holes symetrically, you can then flip the part over too. do the profile passes. the next jig is vertical, and drills the end stuff. the third jig is 30 degrees, and does the 30 degree stuff. make all these jigs on a single plate that can be aligned with the table, so once you set it up once, every future part is the same offsets.
[22:13:57] <PetefromTn_> do step five on all the parts first indexing carefully, make a plate setup for each to hole them onto the fourth axis, machine the rest using multiple angles of the fourth axis is the only way I can see any sort of repeatable parts
[22:14:11] <newradio> malcom2073: without AC? humidity control? residential garage?
[22:14:44] <furrywolf> I can see this entire assembley in my head, and it doesn't look like it'd take 3 hours to build. :)
[22:15:01] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wanna make em for 100 a piece?
[22:15:02] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:15:38] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: how does the plate attach to the bottom when its machined
[22:15:49] <furrywolf> zeeshan: neither of my machines is working. heh. the sherline is frozen solid (soapstone is evil!) and needs a teardown and cleaning, and then needs a new driver box and linuxcnc so I can get rid of flashcut. the shoptask makes chips, but the electronics are spread out around it, not in the enclosure yet.
[22:16:00] <zeeshan> fix em
[22:16:03] <zeeshan> ill make him wait 2 weeks
[22:16:04] <newradio> 5-axis cnc - only $40k :)
[22:16:04] <PetefromTn_> dunno hehe
[22:16:05] <zeeshan> :P
[22:16:19] <newradio> PRSAlpha cnc
[22:16:23] <PetefromTn_> but I am sure there is a way..
[22:16:37] <zeeshan> i think expanding mandrel is worth a shot
[22:16:43] <PetefromTn_> that plate goes on the bottom or the side?
[22:16:52] <zeeshan> bottom id think
[22:16:54] <furrywolf> zeeshan: easy. make the plate have a raised square that fits the pocket, for repeatability. when cutting the pocket, include a number of small holes for self-tapping screws.
[22:17:16] <zeeshan> furrywolf: damn your non standard words
[22:17:18] <zeeshan> confusing me
[22:17:28] <zeeshan> that raised square is called an island
[22:17:31] <zeeshan> or a protrusion
[22:17:32] <zeeshan> !!!!!!11
[22:17:37] <zeeshan> okay i see what you mean now
[22:17:38] <PetefromTn_> no I mean the decorative plate
[22:17:46] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: theres 2 plates
[22:17:54] <zeeshan> one goes on bottom the other goes on side, the side one has engraving
[22:18:10] <furrywolf> how does the bottom plate attach to the bottom?
[22:18:15] <zeeshan> it clicks in
[22:18:17] <zeeshan> :-)
[22:18:24] <PetefromTn_> I would machine an aluminum plate with a raised boss to fit in that pocket on the bottom of the stock
[22:18:34] <PetefromTn_> put some screws in the meat of the part to hold it down
[22:18:38] <furrywolf> ... isn't that what I said? :)
[22:18:51] <zeeshan> i understand you guys when you're saying
[22:18:52] <zeeshan> how to locate it
[22:18:55] <zeeshan> but i dont follow you at all
[22:18:56] <PetefromTn_> then machine the rest on the 4th axis
[22:19:00] <zeeshan> on how to actually hold it
[22:19:12] <furrywolf> I can try drawing a piss-poor sketch.
[22:19:16] <zeeshan> like whats holding the plate to the wood
[22:19:23] <PetefromTn_> screws
[22:19:25] <zeeshan> its located, but where are the screws going
[22:19:59] <PetefromTn_> into whatever meat will be substantial enough to hold the part and will be covered afterwards with the plates
[22:20:18] <zeeshan> hmmm
[22:20:23] <zeeshan> okay so that'd mean the pocket
[22:20:29] <zeeshan> and and maybe a screw sideways
[22:20:33] <zeeshan> into the big bore
[22:20:43] <zeeshan> but its pretty thin there
[22:20:47] <PetefromTn_> no probably four screws around the big bore
[22:21:05] <zeeshan> you really think an expanding mandrel
[22:21:07] <zeeshan> is a bad idea?
[22:21:12] <zeeshan> ive seen it used on wood a lot
[22:21:16] <zeeshan> but i dont have experience with it at all
[22:21:21] <PetefromTn_> I never have
[22:21:25] <zeeshan> i was imagining the flats that come out of the madnrel
[22:21:31] <zeeshan> would dig in to the bore
[22:21:34] <Jymmm> Why is a water flex line (NOT braided flex line) a "bad idea" going to a shower faucet?
[22:21:37] <zeeshan> so it'd make like a star pattern around the whole thing
[22:22:40] <furrywolf> I'd figure an expanding mandrel would work on stabilized wood, but it'd be harder to make fixtures for.
[22:22:49] <zeeshan> why
[22:22:50] <zeeshan> its round
[22:22:52] <PetefromTn_> you could try it I guess
[22:25:30] <zeeshan> i told this guy
[22:25:35] <zeeshan> give me wood that is relatively same in shape
[22:25:47] <zeeshan> every damn wood piece varies +/-1"
[22:25:55] <zeeshan> in width height and length
[22:25:59] <zeeshan> damn wood workers.
[22:26:08] <furrywolf> that's relatively the same shape.
[22:26:15] <zeeshan> size+shape
[22:26:35] <Jymmm> There are the same size, you are just using the wrong scale =)
[22:27:57] <newradio> is there an online cnc shop where i can ship a stl file and they would give me a price, cut it out and ship it to me?
[22:28:00] <newradio> reasonably priced?
[22:28:06] <Jymmm> furrywolf: you know plumbing code at all?
[22:28:08] <zeeshan> newradio: 500$ / hr
[22:28:27] <Jymmm> newradio: yes
[22:28:34] <t12> lollin @ http://www.peashooter85.com/post/127278259652/degaussing-for-victory-in-the-early-years-of-world
[22:28:50] <newradio> 500$/hour?!
[22:29:13] <zeeshan> make sure your part only requires 5 seconds
[22:29:14] <zeeshan> :)
[22:29:14] <furrywolf> Jymmm: slightly
[22:29:15] <t12> newradio: fistcut
[22:29:16] <Jymmm> newradio: One example, there are more... http://www.internetmachineshop.com/
[22:29:23] <t12> firstcut even
[22:29:26] <t12> not particularly cheap
[22:29:27] <t12> but fast
[22:29:30] <t12> and easy
[22:29:45] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Why would you NOT use flex water line to a shower faucet (NOT braided stuff)
[22:29:46] <Jymmm> ?
[22:29:49] <t12> and minimal human interaction
[22:29:54] <newradio> fistcut doesnt look too bad
[22:30:13] <furrywolf> you asked that before. I had no clue what you were talking about then either.
[22:30:19] <Tom_itx> plumber Jymmm is at it again
[22:30:39] <Jymmm> hang on...
[22:31:11] <furrywolf> Jymmm: do you mean using rubber hose inside a wall?
[22:31:18] <furrywolf> because that's stupid for obvious reasons.
[22:31:41] <Jymmm> No, the same type of flex lien you would use on water heaters
[22:31:41] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: uploading
[22:31:45] <zeeshan> okay
[22:32:19] <furrywolf> water heater flex lines rely on rubber washers for seals at each end.
[22:32:23] <furrywolf> and will leak. inside your wall.
[22:33:00] <zeeshan> man i think to be less stressed
[22:33:03] <zeeshan> im gonna work on the car
[22:33:07] <zeeshan> been neglecting it for a while :P
[22:33:16] <furrywolf> http://imgur.com/CLsEcuO
[22:33:23] <t12> i think stress has become a way of life for me
[22:33:24] <t12> its unchill
[22:33:52] <furrywolf> did I mention I suck at drawing? :P
[22:33:55] <zeeshan> furrywolf: cute writing
[22:34:09] <zeeshan> ROFL
[22:34:10] <zeeshan> @ lump
[22:34:11] <zeeshan> hahahaha
[22:34:14] <zeeshan> thank you for making me laugh
[22:34:48] <zeeshan> okay look i see your plate
[22:34:51] <zeeshan> but youre asking me to screw into a part
[22:34:55] <zeeshan> that will be visible in the future
[22:35:10] <furrywolf> no. put the screw holes inside it somewhere.
[22:35:28] <zeeshan> but i like your fixture idea.
[22:35:30] <zeeshan> VERY much
[22:35:45] <zeeshan> it'd mean one part at a time
[22:35:46] <furrywolf> or, use an expanding mandrel.
[22:35:50] <zeeshan> unless i wanna make 10 fixtures
[22:35:55] <zeeshan> yea but i see wha tyou mean now
[22:36:00] <furrywolf> just make sure you don't make it too tight.
[22:36:02] <zeeshan> the expanding mandrel wont be a great thing because,
[22:36:04] <zeeshan> you cant locate off it
[22:36:05] <furrywolf> one part at a time, but very close to zero setup time.
[22:36:12] <zeeshan> with the plate method, it can be located
[22:36:14] <zeeshan> yes
[22:36:22] <zeeshan> well if i make 5 of those fixture plates
[22:36:25] <zeeshan> it might be worth it..
[22:36:33] <furrywolf> do you have automatic tool changes?
[22:36:36] <zeeshan> no
[22:36:43] <zeeshan> thats why i really wanna avoid
[22:36:51] <furrywolf> why the heck not? I thought you had a shiny fancy machine? :P
[22:36:53] <zeeshan> like i rather have 5 parts done in one op
[22:36:58] <zeeshan> its manual tool changer
[22:37:02] <zeeshan> it takes a couple seconds
[22:37:05] <zeeshan> but it requires me to be there
[22:37:11] <furrywolf> rather than makign 5 plates, make one five times as wide. (deep in my drawing)
[22:37:18] <zeeshan> honestly, i can make a temporary automatic tool changer
[22:37:21] <zeeshan> REALLY easily for my machine
[22:37:22] <zeeshan> nothing fancy.
[22:37:30] <zeeshan> i can put 4 tool racks on the sid eof the table
[22:37:32] <zeeshan> the spindle comes down
[22:37:40] <furrywolf> just tig a few alu plates together.
[22:37:42] <zeeshan> and drops tool on ine rack
[22:38:08] <furrywolf> then you can do five parts at once, and re-fixture five at once, all next to each other.
[22:38:11] <zeeshan> well when i see your fixture idea
[22:38:13] <zeeshan> i see an angle plate.
[22:38:15] <Jymmm> zeeshan: and why isn't this automated yet if it's "SO SIMPLE" huh? huh? huh?
[22:38:17] <zeeshan> with a bunch of drilled holes
[22:38:24] <zeeshan> the only thing special is that rib plate
[22:39:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i really like this plate a lot.
[22:39:11] <zeeshan> if i can figure out a way to add the screws
[22:39:14] <zeeshan> this would make life REALLY easy
[22:39:37] <Jymmm> zeeshan: midget hookers
[22:39:39] <newradio> zeeshan: what machine do u use?
[22:39:42] <furrywolf> the first part (or batch of parts) you make you'll need to manually locate the part every time you re-mount it. this will require accurately locating some feature on the part, so make sure to have one. after that, the position offsets will be the same every time.
[22:39:48] <zeeshan> newradio: i dont have a machine
[22:39:52] <zeeshan> i AM the machine
[22:39:52] <XXCoder> heys
[22:40:07] <Jymmm> XXCoder: hoe's
[22:40:19] <XXCoder> joe's
[22:40:22] <furrywolf> zeeshan: you can also build an expanding mandrel into the mounting plates.
[22:40:34] <furrywolf> if you don't want to use screws
[22:40:44] <furrywolf> screws, however, don't require building. :)
[22:40:51] <zeeshan> well i almost wanna tel lthis guy
[22:40:55] <zeeshan> look i gotta screw the bottom of this
[22:41:03] <zeeshan> lets cover the whole thing with a stainless plate
[22:41:05] <Jymmm> Cant you use locating pins for realignment of the fixture(s)???
[22:41:08] <zeeshan> not will it hide those marks
[22:41:14] <zeeshan> itll add an accent to the piece
[22:41:20] <furrywolf> an expanding mandrel would be better from a strength point of view anyway. I don't know how well screws hold in plastic wood.
[22:41:30] <zeeshan> welll of theyre long enough
[22:41:33] <zeeshan> i think ti'll be fine
[22:41:39] <zeeshan> i dont have any mandrel sizes
[22:41:41] <zeeshan> in 21 mm
[22:41:42] <XXCoder> my cnc machine bolts arrived woot
[22:41:48] <zeeshan> id have to build like you said
[22:41:56] <Tom_itx> zeeshan! hows the machining coming along?
[22:41:57] <zeeshan> its literally a cylinder with slits
[22:42:01] <Tom_itx> got one to show now?
[22:42:01] <zeeshan> and threads
[22:42:18] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: we're discussing on how to make them
[22:42:21] <zeeshan> really good ideas came out
[22:42:22] <furrywolf> building one of suitable precision for this job wouldn't be hard, but a non-trivial amount of work.
[22:42:25] <Tom_itx> STILL?
[22:42:35] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i almost didnt want to do the job
[22:42:40] <zeeshan> till these guys helped me out
[22:42:48] <zeeshan> so yes, still :)
[22:42:49] <Tom_itx> well i wouldn't wanna polish a turd either
[22:43:00] <furrywolf> heh, the drawing looks bigger in the photo... that's just a postit note. :)
[22:43:27] <zeeshan> furrywolf: move to canada
[22:43:30] <zeeshan> lets start a company
[22:43:31] <Tom_itx> looks like CATIA is done downloading...
[22:43:33] <zeeshan> :P
[22:43:47] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: whyd you ask about abba ka dabra qus
[22:43:58] <zeeshan> you dont need it!
[22:44:01] <XXCoder> zeeshan: hire me if you start one
[22:44:03] <Tom_itx> wondered if you used it
[22:44:10] <Tom_itx> it's part of their downloads
[22:44:15] <zeeshan> yes, but its really oriented for research
[22:44:16] <Tom_itx> i didn't get it yet
[22:44:19] <XXCoder> zeeshan: cant do fancy stuff but I sure can lots boring parts lol
[22:44:24] <zeeshan> you can do basic simulation in it too
[22:44:27] <zeeshan> but i think ansys is better
[22:44:31] <zeeshan> yea DS makes it
[22:44:37] <zeeshan> haha XXCoder
[22:44:44] <zeeshan> so you're telling me you'd be our machine operator?
[22:44:51] <XXCoder> yep
[22:45:05] <zeeshan> theres a lot of talent in this room
[22:45:10] <XXCoder> why noit? I'm nearing one year experence lol
[22:45:10] <furrywolf> your initial part/batch, as I said, you'll need to accurately locate on the part every step. when you mount it to the 90 degree side, when you flip it over on the 90 degree side, when you move it to the vertical side, and again when you move it to the 30 degree side. Make very sure to note the position offsets when you locate them, so you can re-use them for all the future parts.
[22:45:19] <XXCoder> and pretty cheap lol
[22:45:30] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[22:45:36] <zeeshan> i honestly would machine my fixture accurately
[22:45:43] <zeeshan> so i minimize that movement
[22:45:56] <zeeshan> a couple thou is okay
[22:45:57] <zeeshan> for location
[22:45:59] <zeeshan> hes not gonna notice it
[22:46:12] <furrywolf> my way is more likely to work. :)
[22:46:21] <zeeshan> it will
[22:46:24] <zeeshan> but why bring error
[22:46:29] <zeeshan> when you can avoid it in the beginning
[22:46:34] <furrywolf> you'll notice your profiling not lining up by a few thous unless you're planning on extensive sanding.
[22:46:45] <zeeshan> hes sanding em
[22:46:50] <zeeshan> im doing 50 thou step over
[22:46:52] <zeeshan> hes definitely sanding it
[22:46:57] <furrywolf> ah
[22:46:59] <zeeshan> i told him if he wants 5 thou steep over
[22:47:03] <zeeshan> he's gonna have to pay me double
[22:47:11] <furrywolf> that explains the unreasonably short machining time you came up with. :P
[22:47:11] <zeeshan> cause its 10 times more time.
[22:47:15] <Tom_itx> send him back a square block with holes in it... sand it bitch!
[22:47:20] <zeeshan> ROFL
[22:47:37] <zeeshan> its funny how my friend 3d printed this model
[22:47:39] <zeeshan> in 4 hours
[22:47:47] <zeeshan> 3d printers are really good for this sort of stuff
[22:48:08] <furrywolf> 5-axis VMCs with automatic tool changers are really good for it too. :)
[22:48:08] <Tom_itx> what's your machine time figure to?
[22:48:09] <Jymmm> http://i.imgur.com/INxXmyS.jpg?2
[22:48:14] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: 36 min total
[22:48:27] <Tom_itx> all i saw was finished cuts
[22:48:31] <Tom_itx> did you allow for roughing too
[22:48:40] <zeeshan> everything is being roughed
[22:48:43] <zeeshan> i aint got time for finishing
[22:48:45] <zeeshan> hes not paying for it! :P
[22:49:04] <zeeshan> only thing i have finishing on is the for the recess where the plates go
[22:49:23] <zeeshan> btw 30 min of that time is surfacing
[22:49:27] <zeeshan> 4 minutes for pocketing
[22:49:31] <zeeshan> rest is drilling
[22:49:45] <Jymmm> furrywolf: http://i.imgur.com/INxXmyS.jpg?2
[22:49:53] <Tom_itx> how much time for fixture changes?
[22:50:06] <Jymmm> bbiab
[22:50:12] <zeeshan> originalyl 2 hours
[22:50:12] <zeeshan> lol
[22:50:16] <zeeshan> with furry's idea
[22:50:21] <zeeshan> it might be down to 10 min
[22:50:29] <furrywolf> you may need to make your plates have an island the same shape as the bottom of the lump, so you can profile all the way to the bottom, if the shape at the bottom isn't something you can cut 1/2" down at the same time you're doing the bottom pockets.
[22:50:32] <Tom_itx> wasn't following along
[22:51:40] <XXCoder> holy crap bet that hurt http://boingboing.net/2015/08/17/champaign-bottle-fights-back.html
[22:52:07] <zeeshan> furrywolf: there will be a recess
[22:52:10] <furrywolf> the spelling, it hurts. yes.
[22:52:19] <zeeshan> like the part will be floating higher
[22:52:22] <zeeshan> by about 50 thou to 100 thou
[22:52:26] <zeeshan> depending on what material i can find
[22:52:50] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I mean so your profiling passes don't hit your plate.
[22:52:55] <zeeshan> yes
[22:53:01] <furrywolf> you might need an island on the plate to raise the part off it.
[22:53:02] <zeeshan> thats what im tallking about :P
[22:53:16] <XXCoder> fur did you see gif?
[22:53:43] <zeeshan> the only thing currently pendingabout fixture plate idea
[22:53:54] <zeeshan> is accessing the screws
[22:54:00] <zeeshan> for the 30degree angle plate
[22:54:02] <zeeshan> and bottom plate
[22:54:13] <furrywolf> you'll need an island tall enough to clear your 1/2" endmill and not hitting the mounting screws and/or alignment dowels (if needed) for the plates.
[22:54:17] <zeeshan> i think i can hold this in a vise
[22:54:36] <Tom_itx> softjaws
[22:54:39] <Tom_itx> are
[22:54:40] <Tom_itx> your
[22:54:40] <furrywolf> eh? accessing the screws? the plate just screws down to the fixture.
[22:54:41] <Tom_itx> friend
[22:54:54] <zeeshan> LOL
[22:54:55] <zeeshan> dude
[22:55:01] <zeeshan> i didnt even recognize thats what you were saying
[22:55:05] <zeeshan> i dont think thats needed
[22:55:14] <zeeshan> the fixture is one piece
[22:55:17] <zeeshan> the parts attach directly to it
[22:55:30] <Tom_itx> spin it on a 4th axis
[22:55:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: im gonna spin you on a 4th axis
[22:55:48] <Tom_itx> i wish i could
[22:55:52] <furrywolf> the whole reason I have a separate plate is so you can just move the plate between spots on the fixture with good repeatability and no setup.
[22:56:13] <zeeshan> furrywolf: if the protrussion/island is machined onthe fixture plate
[22:56:18] <zeeshan> that means i can unbolt and bolt
[22:56:23] <zeeshan> as much as i'd like
[22:56:42] <zeeshan> its easier for me to do that than make seperate plates for each part
[22:56:50] <zeeshan> because 1. you dont have to locate this new plate
[22:56:51] <furrywolf> fiddling with wood screws from the underside is a lot of work. two machine screws from the topside is easy.
[22:56:53] <zeeshan> 2. its more work :P
[22:57:07] <zeeshan> yes but imagine the fixture plate raised up on 123 blocks
[22:57:11] <zeeshan> now i have access to the bottom
[22:57:28] <zeeshan> that being said
[22:57:33] <zeeshan> unscrewing and screwing the wood
[22:57:37] <zeeshan> will likely result in massive failure
[22:57:51] <furrywolf> also, repeatable. if you're clamping the fixture in a vise, removing it, changing screws, clamping it back in a vise, etc, you'll need vise stops and more work to get repeatability. and a few minutes instead of a few seconds between steps.
[22:58:23] <furrywolf> also, you'd need separate fixture positions for the two profiling passes, instead of just flipping the plate over.
[22:58:40] <zeeshan> no you dont
[22:58:50] * flyback soft jaws into Tom_itx's leg meat
[22:58:57] <zeeshan> maybe you do
[22:59:04] <zeeshan> ill need to think about it
[22:59:07] <furrywolf> yes, you do, unless you want to design the fixture so you can clamp it upside down. :P
[22:59:18] <furrywolf> because the base of the part isn't symmetrical, you can't flip it 180 degrees.
[22:59:25] <zeeshan> i know
[22:59:27] <zeeshan> but iwas thinking
[22:59:36] <zeeshan> yea nm
[22:59:42] <zeeshan> i was hoping to locate off box in one case
[22:59:44] <zeeshan> and cylinder of the other
[22:59:51] <zeeshan> but thats not gonna happen
[22:59:59] * furrywolf thinks a separate mounting plate is a much better idea, with the fixture screwed to the table, never moving.
[23:00:18] <zeeshan> i agree
[23:00:20] <zeeshan> its more work though
[23:00:21] <zeeshan> but worth it
[23:00:31] <furrywolf> you can fit the plate and fixture with dowel pins if you need even better alignment
[23:00:38] <XXCoder> depends on part, sometimes its better just have movable jaws secure part
[23:00:45] <XXCoder> but yeah
[23:00:52] <furrywolf> XXCoder: have you SEEN his part? :P
[23:00:54] <zeeshan> yea id definitely use dowels
[23:01:05] <XXCoder> furrywolf: no, could not find link
[23:01:10] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i really like this idea.
[23:01:15] <zeeshan> its growing on me
[23:01:22] <zeeshan> and my brain isn't hurt as much anymore
[23:01:25] <zeeshan> so it must mean it's good :)
[23:01:33] <XXCoder> in one part, it's movable jaws but has one pin for all parts to be aligned
[23:01:40] <XXCoder> top up pin
[23:01:48] <zeeshan> you know one thing i've learned along the years of fabrication
[23:01:49] <furrywolf> I bet you can get the total time per part down to an hour (if your 36min machining time is correct) with my fixture and plate idea...
[23:01:53] <zeeshan> it's better to talk it out before doing it
[23:01:56] <zeeshan> some small jobs, it doesnt matter
[23:01:57] <furrywolf> do as little work as possible? :P
[23:01:58] <zeeshan> but when you get something big
[23:01:59] <furrywolf> lol
[23:02:01] <XXCoder> zeeshan: got link for your part
[23:02:05] <zeeshan> it's really worth talking
[23:02:16] <zeeshan> otherwise you'll be kicking yourself later.
[23:02:38] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i agree 1 hour per piece.
[23:02:42] <zeeshan> mainly because of manual tool change
[23:02:43] <zeeshan> and moving
[23:02:50] <zeeshan> i trust the machining time
[23:02:55] <zeeshan> XXCoder: http://imgur.com/a/WuyB5
[23:03:04] <furrywolf> when it comes to jigs and fixtures, it's a tradeoff... but if you were serious about 2 hours of setup time, and it takes 10 hours to make a fixture to reduce it to 10 minute setup time, then >6 parts it's better to make a fixture.
[23:03:25] <zeeshan> i agree with that
[23:03:33] <zeeshan> but in addition, sometimes if it reduces stress in setting it up
[23:03:37] <zeeshan> even though fixture takes you longer
[23:03:38] <zeeshan> its worth it
[23:03:41] <zeeshan> cause it'll reduce the error
[23:03:49] <XXCoder> interesting part
[23:03:53] <XXCoder> 4th axis?
[23:03:59] <zeeshan> you guys and 4th axis
[23:04:02] <zeeshan> this part isnt a 4 axis part
[23:04:05] <zeeshan> its a 5 axis
[23:04:09] <zeeshan> 4th axis doesnt help it at all
[23:04:25] <XXCoder> it would enable you to have easier time setup
[23:04:28] <zeeshan> no
[23:04:33] <zeeshan> it only combines at most 3 steps together
[23:04:40] <zeeshan> 5 axis combins all the steps
[23:04:41] <zeeshan> except 1
[23:04:47] <furrywolf> XXCoder: not really, because it's a 5-axis part. you can't 4-axis the 30 degree borings, etc.
[23:04:50] <zeeshan> but i guarantee you 5 axis will take longer
[23:05:02] <zeeshan> cause i have to change tools for each part
[23:05:15] <XXCoder> zeeshan: yeah unavoidable, you NEED to mill mount point for next step
[23:05:16] <zeeshan> if i had atc, it would be the best option
[23:05:21] <XXCoder> cant do one step 5 axis
[23:05:21] <furrywolf> you need a 5-head 5-axis machine... :P
[23:05:40] <zeeshan> i hear termites are cheap
[23:05:45] <zeeshan> maybe i can program to each away through this
[23:05:50] <XXCoder> zeeshan: cnc termites
[23:05:51] * zeeshan kickstarters the idea.
[23:06:14] <XXCoder> bump me few k for nice cnc if it takjes off lol
[23:06:18] <zeeshan> haha
[23:06:28] <furrywolf> nah, only with real wood, not your plastic wood. :P
[23:06:28] <furrywolf> you need rats if you want an animal that'll eat plastic.
[23:06:34] <zeeshan> haha
[23:06:46] <furrywolf> stupid fuckers eat the insulation off wiring...
[23:06:55] <zeeshan> but if 3d printing guys can laser cut, cnc mill, and 3d print in one machine
[23:06:59] <zeeshan> then i can program termites to eat plastic
[23:07:04] <furrywolf> lol
[23:07:10] <zeeshan> :D
[23:07:35] <zeeshan> do they actually eat it?
[23:07:38] <zeeshan> or use it for nesting
[23:07:54] <XXCoder> eat
[23:08:02] <zeeshan> lol
[23:08:05] <t12> special termites that eat oiling slots into your mill ways
[23:08:06] <zeeshan> gross
[23:08:08] <furrywolf> if you want to make part movements even faster, you could just use alignment dowels and toggle vises, rather than screwing the plate down... but I suspect a couple cap screws and a long-handled tee hex wrench is just a few seconds.
[23:08:17] <zeeshan> t12: you know those microbots
[23:08:21] <zeeshan> this could be one application of it
[23:08:24] <zeeshan> use em like ants
[23:08:33] <zeeshan> give them a task , and they do it , one small chip at a time
[23:08:39] <zeeshan> it'd take longer than 3d printing
[23:08:43] <zeeshan> but it'd work :P
[23:09:13] <zeeshan> furrywolf: to be honest..
[23:09:21] <zeeshan> if i can make a fixture plate for 5 parts
[23:09:31] <zeeshan> im willing to spend even 5 minutes to move each plate
[23:09:38] <zeeshan> because i can walk away
[23:09:44] <zeeshan> especially during the surfacing stage
[23:09:48] <furrywolf> and do them all at once.
[23:09:49] <Tom_itx> if you use fixture offsets you won't need to
[23:09:56] <Tom_itx> set P2 up on G55
[23:10:00] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: noo
[23:10:01] <zeeshan> i know that
[23:10:04] <Tom_itx> set P3 up on G56
[23:10:07] <zeeshan> thats the plan
[23:10:24] <XXCoder> bullet cnc
[23:10:26] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: http://i.imgur.com/CLsEcuO.jpg
[23:10:27] <Tom_itx> if they don't fit, turn them diagonally :)
[23:10:30] <zeeshan> this is what im talking about
[23:10:32] <zeeshan> furry posted this
[23:10:35] <XXCoder> shooting part to shape it :P
[23:10:41] <zeeshan> the fixture plate is dialed in
[23:10:42] <XXCoder> someone make one, I dare ya
[23:11:18] <t12> getting antsy waiting for leveling feet, qctp for lathe
[23:11:28] <furrywolf> XXCoder: 3d profiling is hard, since you don't have accurate depth control. would be more suitable for tasks that a plasma table would be good for. :P
[23:11:29] <zeeshan> i could really benefit from 15 work offsets
[23:11:30] <zeeshan> for this
[23:11:37] <zeeshan> i forgot how much linuxcnc has
[23:11:37] <t12> i wonder if real leveling will even be possible with the shitty stand or if i'll have to fab a new one
[23:11:39] <XXCoder> lol fur
[23:11:46] <furrywolf> it's not electron beam cutting... it's lead beam cutting. :P
[23:11:59] <zeeshan> dam,n only 8
[23:12:00] <zeeshan> :(
[23:12:05] <XXCoder> fur lots police visits too. unless youre at very remote spot
[23:12:20] <zeeshan> 9
[23:12:22] <Jymmm> furrywolf: http://i.imgur.com/INxXmyS.jpg?2
[23:12:27] <furrywolf> nah, no one here cares if you run through a few boxes of ammo.
[23:12:42] <zeeshan> t12 you got the 12x36 lathe right?
[23:12:59] <furrywolf> Jymmm: that's ugly. what's your question?
[23:13:06] <t12> its an 11x28
[23:13:12] <zeeshan> on the bottom of the cabinets
[23:13:12] <t12> whatever that really means
[23:13:17] <zeeshan> you should have 4 holes on each cabinet
[23:13:22] <zeeshan> just put hex head bolts
[23:13:30] * furrywolf tries to remember if you use purple primer with cpvc
[23:13:34] <zeeshan> 5/8 with 2 nuts
[23:13:36] <zeeshan> it works pretty well
[23:13:37] <Tom_itx> who hired that plumber?
[23:13:37] <t12> it's bolted to the stand well
[23:13:44] <t12> its just the stand is thick sheet metal
[23:13:59] <zeeshan> i mean your stand should have holes in it
[23:14:01] <zeeshan> for bolts to go through
[23:14:03] <t12> it supports it but theres some whole table move if you give it a shove
[23:14:05] <zeeshan> you dont really need leveling feet
[23:14:12] <Jymmm> furrywolf: THAT's what they did. My issue is that it's not servicable (with a wrench) and that is has to be cut to be changed (repaired). So I felt a flexline or "something" to allow a weench to be used.
[23:14:14] <t12> if i want it level i do
[23:14:18] <zeeshan> no
[23:14:18] <t12> unless theres some decent alternative
[23:14:21] <zeeshan> i mean you can use bolts
[23:14:23] <zeeshan> and hex head
[23:14:24] <t12> oooh
[23:14:26] <zeeshan> lemme snap a pic
[23:14:31] <t12> sorry i understand now
[23:14:37] <zeeshan> you need to use your lathe to machine the bolt heads flat
[23:14:39] <zeeshan> so you have a nice surface
[23:14:53] <t12> the bolt pattern wouldnt allow for detwist leveling however
[23:15:02] <t12> i could just go measure the twist right now i guess
[23:15:05] <t12> and see how bad it is
[23:15:09] <zeeshan> its prolly really bad
[23:15:12] <zeeshan> like 10 thou bad
[23:15:13] <zeeshan> :P
[23:15:14] <t12> yeah
[23:15:19] <zeeshan> if its really far off
[23:15:27] <zeeshan> lemme show you how i did mine
[23:15:40] <t12> http://www.machinetoolonline.com/sitebuilder/images/PM-1127VF-Large-371x347.jpg
[23:15:40] <Jymmm> furrywolf: like this http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/6a/6aea73d0-a9d3-4d2b-8e19-d5e2ccd982be_400.jpg
[23:15:43] <t12> stand looks like that
[23:16:47] <furrywolf> Jymmm: flex lines will leak with time. they're not allowed by code to be used hidden, for a reason.
[23:16:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Other than the ugliness, is it right? proper ?
[23:16:53] <t12> i found someone in the city with concrete floors who can support some real machines
[23:16:58] <t12> i'm going to try and herd some over there for heavy work
[23:17:33] <XXCoder> just trying to figure why 2 pipes need to be connected together
[23:17:33] <furrywolf> hopefully the glue they used was combined primer and glue, because I sure don't see any purple...
[23:17:48] <Jymmm> furrywolf: So I've been told, but doens't seem right that you have to CUT to service
[23:17:55] <Jymmm> furrywolf: there is purple prime elsewhere
[23:18:11] <furrywolf> or maybe you don't use primer for cpvc. I don't remember. :P
[23:18:26] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ut's yellow sbot stuff
[23:18:27] <furrywolf> cut to service is pretty standard with plastic plumbing systems.
[23:18:29] <Jymmm> snot
[23:19:02] <furrywolf> some fixtures/faucets have built-in unions to avoid this, but that's not what they used.
[23:19:12] <XXCoder> studs not on top
[23:19:17] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I'm frustrated as there is a threaded fitting, then glued in so you can't service it with a wrench, vut I can ALL other fittings in the house.
[23:19:39] <furrywolf> generally you assume the valve body is never replaced, just rebuilt.
[23:19:56] <furrywolf> on most valves, all parts are removable out the front, including the seats.
[23:20:16] <Jymmm> furrywolf: they are installing unions to tomorrow, but only after I had a major issue with it not being servicable
[23:20:44] <furrywolf> why do you plan on replacing it so soon? lol
[23:20:51] <zeeshan> t12: im pretty sure my stand is the same
[23:20:56] <furrywolf> as I said, most servicing is done out the FRONT of the valve.
[23:21:02] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It's probbly 40yo
[23:21:06] <t12> is yours a weiss
[23:21:08] <furrywolf> you unscrew the handle and all parts, including the seats, come out that way.
[23:21:10] <zeeshan> no
[23:21:14] <zeeshan> its 12x36 taiwanese
[23:21:25] <zeeshan> http://www.busybeetools.com/products/lathe-12in-x-36in-2hp-gear-head-craftex-cx.html
[23:21:27] <zeeshan> looks like this
[23:21:37] <t12> nice
[23:21:45] <t12> my choice mainly revolved aroudn weight
[23:21:49] <Jymmm> furrywolf: so you think unions on that are a "bad idea" ?
[23:21:51] <t12> wood floor, hard to get it in from the street
[23:21:52] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9YxSjfy.jpg
[23:21:57] <zeeshan> can you tel lwhats going on?
[23:22:07] <t12> ahh yeah
[23:22:08] <zeeshan> holy cow i got a lot of chips down there
[23:22:14] <furrywolf> I wouldn't call it a bad idea, other than that it's another failure point... just uneeded.
[23:22:19] <t12> however i have ordered nice feet
[23:22:26] <XXCoder> zeeshan free chips yummy
[23:22:31] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/eFgCwIX.jpg
[23:22:37] <zeeshan> thers even more chips under my mill
[23:22:38] <zeeshan> lol
[23:22:44] <zeeshan> as long as theyre out of my sight
[23:22:46] <zeeshan> :)
[23:22:46] <XXCoder> honestly thats small
[23:23:28] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ok, then why did you say that was ugly? just the messiness of it or the workmanship?
[23:23:46] <furrywolf> messiness and workmanship are very closely related. :P
[23:23:55] <furrywolf> use of excessive glue, excessive pipe dope, etc.
[23:24:25] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I agree, but I'd rather them use more than less
[23:26:18] <Crom> ARGH*(&#()*$&#+_*$*^#+_$(#_$*#^$(#&$_+#*)+_( the 3040 is TOTAL JJUNK!
[23:27:01] <Jymmm> furrywolf: thanks for the feedback, noe to continue the search for my airhose I can't find (I hate moving) so I can air up the tire with two nails in it so I can take it down and get fixed under warranty
[23:28:02] <Crom> also been working on geting the K40 laser working with the ebay arduino nano board
[23:28:35] <furrywolf> trying to find a good picture of a valve rebuild...
[23:28:41] <t12> i had a german professor get really mad about chips around the tools in the shop
[23:28:47] <t12> in a german shop you can eat off the floor!
[23:29:30] <XXCoder> t12: the chips off floor? ;)
[23:29:32] <furrywolf> http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy230/wds3r/upstairstubplumbingannotated2_zps35b1788e.jpg there's a shower valve taken apart, at least.
[23:29:57] <furrywolf> all the insides come out the front to allow for servicing without removing the valve
[23:31:16] <t12> xxcoder: i could have come back with that
[23:31:38] <furrywolf> you're supposed to rebuild the valve, and only replace it if there's a major failure or you're remodeling... at which point a couple glue couplers isn't too much extra work.
[23:32:01] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: got your fixtures built yet? :
[23:32:01] <furrywolf> :P
[23:33:02] <zeeshan> haha no
[23:33:04] <zeeshan> im relaxing :P
[23:35:05] <furrywolf> another attachment option would be to machine the bottom, then the top (with the square sides clamped in a vise), then use a through-bolt to hold it to the plate for the future steps... but that's another non-fixtured operation.
[23:35:59] <zeeshan> im happy with what we discussed :)
[23:36:23] <zeeshan> i just need to figure out where to place the screws
[23:37:02] <furrywolf> let's see... how many parts are you making again?
[23:37:08] <zeeshan> 40
[23:37:26] <zeeshan> with a potential for antoher 40
[23:37:36] <zeeshan> (if it goes like shit, im not accepting more)
[23:37:39] <zeeshan> i wont have the time
[23:38:10] <furrywolf> so if I saved you 2 hours per part, times 40 parts, that's 80 hours, at $100 an hour, split the difference... a $4000 consulting fees sounds about right... :P
[23:38:16] <zeeshan> haha
[23:38:25] <zeeshan> i dont charge that high :P
[23:38:36] <zeeshan> honestly, i dont think he'll even come back w/ the job
[23:38:42] <zeeshan> but we'll see
[23:38:52] <zeeshan> hey look
[23:38:53] <zeeshan> its my friend bobo
[23:39:12] <bobo_> Super glue
[23:39:20] <furrywolf> how much did you tell him per part?
[23:39:29] <zeeshan> $150
[23:39:30] <bobo_> for screws ?
[23:39:37] <zeeshan> (basically he told me this is the max amount)
[23:40:04] <furrywolf> if you can do them in an hour-ish, that's reasonable.
[23:40:15] <zeeshan> i still think something is gonna com eup
[23:40:21] <zeeshan> and itll take 1.5 hours per piece
[23:40:26] <zeeshan> and about 10 hours in fixture time
[23:40:32] <zeeshan> (building the fixture)
[23:40:32] <furrywolf> lol
[23:40:42] <furrywolf> 10 hours was my estimate for one, yes.
[23:41:00] <zeeshan> 1.5*40 = 60 hours
[23:41:04] <zeeshan> i can only spend 5 hrs a day
[23:41:07] <zeeshan> and 8 on weekends
[23:41:26] <furrywolf> time to build that automatic tool changer. :)
[23:41:28] <zeeshan> so couple weeks :P
[23:41:36] <furrywolf> and 5th axis
[23:41:38] <zeeshan> nah man
[23:41:44] <zeeshan> im just not gonna accept production job sin the future
[23:41:47] <zeeshan> its too much for me
[23:41:48] <zeeshan> 10 ok
[23:41:51] <zeeshan> 20 no
[23:41:56] <zeeshan> (depending on the size of it)
[23:42:02] <zeeshan> i really like doing one offs
[23:42:08] <zeeshan> like the guy coming tomorrow with wheels to be center bored
[23:42:12] <zeeshan> 4 wheels, easy peasy
[23:42:14] <zeeshan> couple hours done
[23:42:23] <zeeshan> its not a constant headache -- i gotta get these parts out!
[23:42:54] <furrywolf> all depends on the money.
[23:43:11] <zeeshan> dude i most likely will be working at EAton again
[23:43:13] <furrywolf> if he wants 10,000 lumps, at $150 each... make the time. :P
[23:43:20] <XXCoder> zeeshan: one titanium statue $50000
[23:43:23] <zeeshan> sometimes we gotta work 8 hours
[23:43:28] <zeeshan> haha furrywolf
[23:43:28] <t12> doin what for eaton
[23:43:36] <zeeshan> t12 i used to do mechanical design there
[23:43:38] <XXCoder> furrywolf: yeah that'd be GREAT job
[23:43:40] <XXCoder> boring but..
[23:43:46] <zeeshan> my ex-boss emailed me today about an opening
[23:43:51] <zeeshan> and if im interested
[23:44:03] <zeeshan> so im assuming its for mechanical design also
[23:44:04] <t12> i've been thinking more about going to work for FEI
[23:44:06] <t12> if they'd take me
[23:44:12] <t12> cruise around and work on electron microscopes all day
[23:44:17] <furrywolf> eaton, eh? if you're there, tell them to hurry up and make their elocker fit a r180 diff. :P
[23:44:26] <t12> pay prolly isnt too good though
[23:44:28] <zeeshan> furrywolf: haha this is not eaton mechanical
[23:44:31] <zeeshan> this is eaton electrical
[23:44:48] <XXCoder> t12: electron microscope for checking what?
[23:44:49] <zeeshan> t12: i love eaton
[23:44:53] <t12> i'm used to eaton as just electrical i didnt know they did all this other stuff
[23:44:53] <zeeshan> ive worked at so many different companies
[23:45:04] <t12> xxcoder: when i dealt with them it was all for biology stuff
[23:45:06] <zeeshan> this company is so good..
[23:45:10] <zeeshan> the people are awesome
[23:45:10] <t12> but most os for materials work
[23:45:14] <t12> s/os/is
[23:45:21] <XXCoder> cool
[23:45:28] <t12> some chip fab failure analysis, qc stuff too
[23:45:30] <zeeshan> yea they do vfds, power transmission
[23:45:32] <zeeshan> all sorts of stuff
[23:45:48] <t12> FEI sample stages are pretty impressive
[23:45:53] <t12> repeatable to around 10nm
[23:45:54] <zeeshan> i really enjoy making transmformer bases
[23:45:57] <t12> with... gears
[23:46:16] <furrywolf> want to wind me a new solenoid coil for my mill? :P
[23:46:21] <t12> through a vacuum
[23:46:24] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
[23:46:26] <zeeshan> mechanical!
[23:46:30] <zeeshan> :P
[23:46:36] <furrywolf> I fixed the current solenoid with a piece of romex.
[23:46:41] <zeeshan> haha
[23:46:53] <t12> i should dig up EM pics
[23:47:02] <zeeshan> em's are sweet!
[23:47:12] <zeeshan> i want to use one at school
[23:47:13] <furrywolf> it was easy... I wrapped the romex around the plunger, then around the base, then twisted it really tight so the plunger was held down... :P
[23:47:18] <furrywolf> fixed is relative. :)
[23:47:20] <zeeshan> but its a long process to get access to it
[23:47:21] <zeeshan> and $$$
[23:47:32] <zeeshan> id love to look at atoms :D
[23:47:51] <zeeshan> furrywolf: king of jerry rigging
[23:47:52] <zeeshan> :)
[23:47:58] <furrywolf> I converted it from always off to always on. :)
[23:48:45] <furrywolf> the mill really needs a teardown, and 70 years of maintenance done... but that's too much work.
[23:48:57] <zeeshan> F that
[23:48:58] <zeeshan> use it as is
[23:49:02] <furrywolf> it also could use a Y leadscrew... the square thread looks more like a 60 degree thread on parts of it.
[23:49:10] <zeeshan> really?
[23:49:15] <zeeshan> thats weird
[23:49:23] <furrywolf> lots of hours.
[23:49:24] <zeeshan> it usually has brass nuts to avoid just that
[23:49:30] <furrywolf> whole lots of hours. heh.
[23:49:38] <furrywolf> it has brass nuts.
[23:49:51] <zeeshan> howd it wear out the steel :P
[23:49:56] <XXCoder> groan just got reminded of cartoon all-stars to rescue
[23:49:58] <furrywolf> which I can't adjust, because the adjustment apparantly failed, so someone fucking BRAZED them to the holder.
[23:50:03] <XXCoder> so bad, that movie
[23:50:04] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/spejgizwre094b4/AAC6X06u-oL1cTOtpo3BD-sxa?dl=0
[23:50:12] <t12> theres one of the stages
[23:50:20] <t12> and a FEG
[23:50:28] <t12> and the FEG baking out
[23:50:30] <zeeshan> wow
[23:50:33] <zeeshan> that is some sexy stufff
[23:50:41] <zeeshan> t12 you work there?
[23:50:47] <furrywolf> zeeshan: I suspect this machine was used in a production shop, and has a few gazillion hours of hard use on it.
[23:50:51] <t12> neg thats at my old university job
[23:51:01] <furrywolf> other than the y leadscrew, I can't spot any major wear, but everything is a little loose.
[23:51:17] <t12> i pretend to know how to work on them mainly i played helper for the service guys
[23:51:22] <furrywolf> the knee elevating nut is worn out too
[23:51:27] <zeeshan> cool
[23:51:28] <t12> and shored them up with annoying computer help
[23:51:38] <furrywolf> it's amazing how many parts are in this machine.
[23:51:43] <zeeshan> furry might be worth replacing the nuts
[23:51:47] <zeeshan> and tightening up the gibs
[23:51:50] <zeeshan> and itll make a good machine
[23:52:03] <t12> but its nice to get hands on time on the machines, some of them there are like 10-20 of on the planet
[23:52:08] <zeeshan> you might not even have to do anything
[23:52:09] <t12> so very difficult to get any expirence
[23:52:11] <zeeshan> as long as you do conventional cuts
[23:52:24] <furrywolf> the 3-axis power feed, with 18 speeds, trip stops on all three axes, rapids, and automatic oiling, is about a thousand parts...
[23:52:32] <furrywolf> gibs are all tight.
[23:52:50] <furrywolf> they're already adjusted so they're sticking out the sides, but they're tight. heh.
[23:53:01] <zeeshan> you know theyre good
[23:53:08] <zeeshan> when you feel a bit of drag
[23:53:14] <zeeshan> or if you hook up an indicator
[23:53:17] <zeeshan> and try to pull on the table
[23:53:29] <furrywolf> I don't think I could lift the table. :P
[23:53:33] <zeeshan> haha
[23:53:34] <furrywolf> this machine is HEAVY.
[23:53:41] <zeeshan> you should be able to shake it
[23:53:47] <zeeshan> if your 100+ lb isnt moving it
[23:53:52] <zeeshan> then thats good, cause you can always take finishing cuts
[23:53:55] <furrywolf> I figure the knee is at least 3/4 ton...
[23:54:00] <zeeshan> and just the shear mass of the machine holds things in place
[23:54:27] <furrywolf> I couldn't observe ANY play in any direction when I gave it the wiggle things test.
[23:54:40] <zeeshan> you really need an indicator
[23:54:41] <zeeshan> to see
[23:54:42] <furrywolf> other than backlash, which it has abundantly.
[23:54:51] <zeeshan> its very hard to feel a couple thou of lash
[23:54:54] <zeeshan> with a big table like that
[23:54:59] <zeeshan> a small slot yea you can
[23:55:00] <furrywolf> close to a full turn of the y handwheel of backlash.
[23:55:00] <zeeshan> but not a big thing
[23:55:10] <zeeshan> lol so like what
[23:55:11] <zeeshan> 100 thou
[23:55:17] <zeeshan> or 200
[23:55:49] <furrywolf> it's a mix of the worn screw, worn nuts, being unable to adjust the nuts, and the bracket the nuts are in being loose, but my being unable to locate the bolts that hold it. I suspect they're under the table.
[23:56:24] <zeeshan> you know what the yoke looks like right?
[23:56:25] <furrywolf> 100 I think. don't remember. haven't cut anything on it yet. lol
[23:56:33] <furrywolf> yoke?
[23:56:43] <zeeshan> http://www.elrodmachine.com/images/Dcp_0415_copy.jpg
[23:56:44] <zeeshan> this thing
[23:56:56] <zeeshan> yuou need to slide the entire table off
[23:56:59] <zeeshan> tgo be able to access those bolts
[23:57:19] <zeeshan> then you remove the bolts
[23:57:21] <zeeshan> and slide the saddle off
[23:57:28] <furrywolf> I don't recall seeing a part that looks like that.
[23:57:54] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzKx92QD8Hk heh if youre curious on that old cartoon movie
[23:58:00] <furrywolf> everything is more complicated because of the 3-axis power feed shafts and gears. heh.
[23:58:14] <furrywolf> and clutches, and lockouts, etc, etc.
[23:58:20] <zeeshan> yep
[23:58:23] <zeeshan> those add complexity
[23:58:52] <furrywolf> each handwheel has a clutch, that's linked to the power feed clutches, so when you engage the power feeds it disengages the handwheel, so it doesn't spin and take out your kneecaps. :)
[23:59:42] <furrywolf> the X power feed involves a bunch of bevel gears and sliding shafts to get the drive up to it...