#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-15

[00:41:42] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: get youtube center
[00:41:48] <XXCoder> you'll love it
[01:16:32] <deep_pink> hi
[01:16:46] <deep_pink> XXCoder: ?
[01:16:52] <XXCoder> yeah?
[01:17:33] <deep_pink> how are you and your machine?
[01:18:26] <XXCoder> watched football so didnt do much lol
[01:18:48] <deep_pink> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/LHxlSSW.jpg
[01:18:59] <XXCoder> tomorrow will be too busy but sunday I plan to test and also finally attach spindle
[01:19:11] <deep_pink> insert that I made.
[01:19:21] <XXCoder> cheaper than buying eh
[01:19:26] <deep_pink> no
[01:20:09] <deep_pink> I cant find insert that fill the whole slot like this one.
[01:20:43] <deep_pink> now I need to find a way to cut the stock material..
[01:21:04] <XXCoder> stronger I guess.
[01:22:15] <deep_pink> it's almost press fit.
[01:22:46] <deep_pink> i cant put a paper between the insert to the rail.
[01:22:52] <XXCoder> wow
[01:23:24] <deep_pink> I want to make 29 more..
[01:23:34] <deep_pink> but the hacksaw kill me.
[01:24:02] <deep_pink> it's 1/4" by 2" flat bar of steel.
[01:26:36] <XXCoder> why not machine it?
[01:26:43] <XXCoder> machine a long strip
[01:26:53] <XXCoder> then just hack off tabs (by machine even better)
[01:27:21] <XXCoder> hacksaw is for people without machines lol (joking)
[01:28:23] <deep_pink> with the machin i will need to remove 3/8 of maerial
[01:28:57] <deep_pink> or use small end mill that will damage very fast from cutting the steel..
[01:29:13] <XXCoder> its steel and not alum? wow strong allright
[01:30:00] <deep_pink> yeh, it is steel, mild steel? 1080?
[01:30:38] <XXCoder> still havent learned how to interpet rating like 1080
[01:30:44] <XXCoder> any good site on that?
[01:31:57] <deep_pink> http://www.lowes.com/pd_44165-37672-11686_1z0vjcfZ1z0x0mlZ1z0xzpaZ1z13simZ2z8vj__?productId=3057605&pl=1
[01:32:04] <deep_pink> something like that.
[01:36:11] <deep_pink_> XXCoder: you can retype, my firefox crash.
[01:36:25] <XXCoder> lol ok. didnt say anything though, was busy coding
[01:36:45] <XXCoder> you has a good artcle explaining qht 1080 and other hardness rating means?
[01:39:39] <deep_pink_> 1080 it's pretty soft steel.
[01:40:06] <XXCoder> I want to learn how to understand those rating
[01:41:18] <deep_pink_> like hrc?
[01:42:15] <XXCoder> I dont know what hrc means?
[01:42:50] <deep_pink_> http://metalsupermarkets.com/blog/difference-between-hot-rolled-steel-and-cold-rolled-steel/
[01:43:25] <XXCoder> oh. no, for example if someone says 3040
[01:43:33] <XXCoder> I dont know if its stronger or weaker than 1080
[01:43:44] <XXCoder> I dont understand what that number means
[01:45:07] <deep_pink_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale
[01:45:23] <XXCoder> nice! thanks
[01:47:35] <XXCoder> interesting
[01:47:42] <XXCoder> so higher number means harder
[01:48:29] <deep_pink_> yes
[01:48:48] <XXCoder> such thing as 9999? lol
[01:48:59] <deep_pink_> Ii see that afthe the machinig the part become slightly more hard
[01:49:08] <deep_pink_> I think 100 is dimond..
[01:49:14] <XXCoder> yeah its called tooling hardening
[01:49:39] <XXCoder> I made lot of parts harder by very slowly working on edge. one part took 25 minutes
[01:49:51] <XXCoder> very slowly going around and adding slight chamfer
[01:49:57] <XXCoder> very slow so its much harder
[01:51:09] <deep_pink_> this is exactly what happened to me!!
[01:51:28] <deep_pink_> how i can solve it?
[01:51:29] <XXCoder> that job took me 2 weeks to complete. over thousand
[01:51:39] <deep_pink_> just to use coolant?
[01:51:44] <XXCoder> unfortunately I dont know enough
[01:51:57] <XXCoder> company tells me how basically lol
[01:52:06] <XXCoder> I do know heating causes hardness a bit
[01:53:41] <XXCoder> tool do add its own hardness a little but I dont know how to avoid or increase it
[01:54:08] <deep_pink_> http://i.imgur.com/E1Xn9ZQ.png
[01:54:17] <deep_pink_> this is the tool path
[01:54:45] <deep_pink_> so how to machine it to eliminate the chamfering..
[01:56:04] <XXCoder> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/how-avoid-work-hardening-304-while-machining-152729/
[01:56:08] <XXCoder> interesting
[01:56:56] <XXCoder> its for 304 though
[01:57:13] <Wolf_> deep_pink_: what size t-slot/extrusion is that for
[01:57:27] <deep_pink_> 1050
[01:57:35] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: ^
[01:57:41] <XXCoder> Wolf_: you know how to avoid tooling hardening and heat hardening while milling part? I dont know
[01:58:20] <Wolf_> so 80/20 brand 10 series?
[01:59:06] <deep_pink_> yes
[01:59:18] <Wolf_> XXCoder: no idea on the work hardening
[01:59:39] <Wolf_> deep_pink_: hmm, let me check something, what width is your part you are milling?
[01:59:40] <archivist> real name is work hardening
[02:00:03] <archivist> use a free machining metal to avoid it
[02:01:15] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: 14.71mm
[02:02:00] <XXCoder> ah work hardening
[02:03:41] <archivist> a black mild steel work hardens a lot so you get a poor finish
[02:04:11] <Wolf_> weird, my 1” x 2” measures 14.5mm in the slots
[02:04:12] <deep_pink_> archivist: what do you think about the tool path?
[02:04:39] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: the insert or the t-slot?
[02:05:36] <Wolf_> the slot
[02:05:42] <archivist> you have to get under the skin, both from the hot rolling and the work hardened from a cut
[02:06:28] <archivist> so a light cut ant be the most difficult to get a good finish on
[02:08:45] <archivist> that tool path looks like the slow way to make that shape
[02:09:51] <Wolf_> deep_pink_: http://i.imgur.com/xbAlW8S.jpg 10.94mm wide t-nut
[02:10:35] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: i see this insert in fastenal - and this is why I make my own.
[02:11:07] <archivist> little need for the curved corner
[02:11:07] <Wolf_> this is raw stock from 80/20 on eBay, 9 years ago lol
[02:11:59] <archivist> make a jig to cut along the length two passes, done
[02:13:30] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: I think you need to deburr the edges to get maximum with
[02:13:46] <deep_pink_> archivist: what do you mean by jig?
[02:13:53] <deep_pink_> what 2 passes?
[02:13:55] <Wolf_> I did where I measured
[02:14:09] <archivist> something to hold the metal at the back angle
[02:15:25] <Wolf_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8020-T-Slot-Standard-T-Nut-Profile-10-S-8901-x-12-N-/330289304143?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ce6c6d24f
[02:16:43] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: it will be 10.94
[02:17:28] <Wolf_> doubt that would effect it much
[02:17:55] <archivist> some jig discussion http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/ozee-rebuild-264941/index20.html
[02:18:19] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: I know my way is not the easy way - but it it is the right way.
[02:18:36] <Deejay> moin
[02:19:00] <archivist> deep_pink_, actually the wrong way methinks
[02:19:20] <Wolf_> I see what archivist is saying, do the cuts in 3 setups, 1st for width, 2nd/3rd for the bevel
[02:19:47] <Wolf_> or something of that idea
[02:19:51] <archivist> yup
[02:20:03] <deep_pink_> but aand how i can make it round?
[02:20:07] <archivist> then slice off lengths
[02:20:23] <archivist> the round is a dont care
[02:21:17] <archivist> look at function when making a part, does that for perform any function you need
[02:21:42] <Wolf_> fun part is when you find out the inside tolerances of the extruded alum isn’t that tight and you are on the wide side of it
[02:22:04] <deep_pink_> but I want to fill the rail
[02:22:34] <deep_pink_> I can buy the originals if i want the gap
[02:22:41] <deep_pink_> but i need it full.
[02:23:15] <Wolf_> are all the t-extrusions you have 14.71mm wide?
[02:23:40] <archivist> extrusions vary you should never ever attempt to fill
[02:24:04] <archivist> must have a tolerance gap
[02:24:08] <deep_pink_> archivist: why?
[02:24:10] <deep_pink_> ??
[02:24:33] <archivist> it slumps as it comes out the extrusion die
[02:24:56] <archivist> normal manufacturing tolerances
[02:25:13] <deep_pink_> now i have 0.2mm
[02:25:31] <deep_pink_> on the original you get 3mm
[02:25:31] <Wolf_> then add anodizing to the mix
[02:26:47] <archivist> going for too small a gap, your parts be jamming
[02:26:52] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: anodizing?? steel??
[02:27:03] <XXCoder> extrudes isnt steel
[02:27:10] <deep_pink_> archivist: it's flyyy in the rail
[02:27:55] <deep_pink_> XXCoder: why do i need to anodiz the extrudes??
[02:28:06] <deep_pink_> to make them pink?
[02:28:25] <XXCoder> dunno, wolf was one who bought anodize up
[02:28:37] <XXCoder> there IS black 8020 beams which is anozided though
[02:28:39] <archivist> the extrusion dimensions will vary due to the anodizing process
[02:29:19] <XXCoder> archivist: even no color extrusions are anodized?
[02:29:35] <archivist> some are, read the spec
[02:30:23] <archivist> you can tell by the colour
[02:31:08] <deep_pink_> archivist: they feel like after anodize,,
[02:31:52] <Wolf_> measured that cut end in the pic 14.78, 14.65, 14.77, 14.71 and yes I debured it
[02:33:05] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: it's fine..
[02:33:37] <Wolf_> anyways, it might work, I would still ditch the radius edges to cut down on machining time
[02:34:24] <XXCoder> just do stright chamfers there I guess
[02:34:51] <Wolf_> ^ knock about .5mm off each side probably
[02:34:52] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: I'm not cut the edges.. I like to so stuff the right way.
[02:34:58] <XXCoder> do long sides, cut large slopes, then finally smaller chamfers in back
[02:35:33] <Wolf_> what are the nuts holding down anyways?
[02:36:05] <deep_pink_> just din rail + terminal blocks, hmi.. etc..
[02:36:21] <archivist> putting on unseen radiuses will get you fired as parts cost more
[02:38:20] <deep_pink_> archivist: but you can see them at the installation time.
[02:38:52] <Wolf_> I can see making them for holding ball truck rails or other linear motion stuff, non-critical junk I just use the flat stamped crap lol
[02:40:15] <deep_pink_> so funny, google images ocd machinist
[02:40:34] <Wolf_> :D
[02:40:39] <XXCoder> just checked solvespace
[02:40:46] <XXCoder> updates is very slow :(
[02:42:29] <Wolf_> so, I checked my old shop computer, ran latency test on it, showing a max servo thread jitter of 224729 ns thats not too horrible right?
[02:42:51] <archivist> ew
[02:42:55] <XXCoder> I need to run jitter test on my pc lol
[02:43:15] <XXCoder> I dont know bad - good scale for jitter so dunno lol
[02:43:18] <Wolf_> thats w/ onboard vid...
[02:43:24] <deep_pink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ9eysoFjsk
[02:43:30] <archivist> Wolf_, for stepper or a servo system
[02:43:37] <Wolf_> stepper
[02:43:42] <deep_pink_> this is work on hot roled steel from lowes?
[02:43:47] <archivist> 22k is more sensible
[02:43:51] <XXCoder> Wolf_: suggest buy decent sub-$100 video card
[02:43:55] <XXCoder> onboard uses cpu
[02:44:02] <XXCoder> well more anyway
[02:44:10] <Wolf_> yeah I know, thats why I mentioned it lol
[02:53:23] <archivist> actually it uses dma and shuts the cpu from memory
[02:53:44] <XXCoder> what factors would affecyt jitter
[02:54:12] <archivist> any badly designed dma activity
[02:54:17] <Wolf_> so tossing a XFX AMD Radeon HD 5450 in that computer should help right?
[02:54:54] <Wolf_> like a whole $30 for one lol
[02:55:56] <archivist> often the driver of nvidia based cards is guilty too
[02:56:31] <archivist> see what cards you have lying around, try them
[02:57:17] <archivist> use the generic driver rather than any proprietary driver
[02:57:25] <Wolf_> not sure what I was thinking when I build that computer, was for my mom home office and I put it in a half height case
[02:57:57] <Wolf_> sorta figured it wouldnt ever need a video card lol
[03:02:21] <XXCoder> avoid nvidia ok
[03:06:05] <XXCoder> archivist: http://imagebin.ca/v/2CCYGaSqXI8X
[03:06:15] <XXCoder> im sure you remember the orginial image lol
[03:24:06] <Wolf_> cpu speed won’t change the latency issue right? what about ram speed/amount?
[03:42:08] <XXCoder> well
[03:42:14] <XXCoder> more swapping more cpu overhead
[03:42:27] <XXCoder> so more ram is better. dunno if speed of ram matters
[03:44:24] <Wolf_> well, it has 1gb ddr2 667, I have a set of 4gb 800 somewhere
[03:45:42] <XXCoder> 1 gb? yes get more
[03:59:19] <Wolf_> heh, I was wrong, it has 2gb in it
[04:29:13] <Wolf_> so next stupid question, I now just need my steppers/drivers, limit switches, e-stop and a break out board like http://www.ebay.com/itm/310702269807 right?
[04:29:47] <XXCoder> wow usb version
[04:30:06] <Wolf_> yeah, its just for power lol
[04:30:16] <XXCoder> try to find matching kit
[04:30:19] <XXCoder> its usually cheaper
[04:30:38] <XXCoder> for example http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Axis-Nema23-Stepping-Motor-110N-cm-3-0A-4wire-board-TB6560-Power-for-CMC-mill-/281188392513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4178225e41
[04:30:51] <XXCoder> I got this, but there is probably cheaper options.
[05:42:24] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: go with the C10
[05:42:42] <deep_pink_> I have the board that you show on ebay - JUNK!
[05:43:03] <Wolf_> yeah? I was looking at the c10 as well
[05:43:35] <zeeshan> whatcha building
[05:43:37] <deep_pink_> the c10 also come with normak components so if somthing go wrong you can easy replace them,
[05:43:58] <deep_pink_> about drivers - PLEASE DO NOT BUY JUNK!
[05:44:59] <deep_pink_> the all in one board are pure junk - if one of them make problem - you cant do much.
[05:45:00] <Wolf_> zeeshan: harbor junk seig x1 conversion to get over my noob-ness
[05:45:19] <Wolf_> yeah I won’t touch a all in one anything
[05:45:33] <zeeshan> its a good learning experience
[05:45:55] <deep_pink_> go with individuals drivers like the toshibe,
[05:45:56] <Wolf_> then use the x1 to make the small parts for a cnc plasma table
[05:46:08] <zeeshan> ah
[05:46:12] <zeeshan> you wanna get a mesa kit then
[05:46:14] <zeeshan> dont use a c10
[05:46:36] <zeeshan> for a plasma table you need high speeds to ensure quality of cut
[05:46:43] <Wolf_> well, I’ll build a 2nd system for the plasma
[05:46:48] <zeeshan> john throton is expert
[05:48:27] <Wolf_> trying to keep the x1 on low budget :D
[05:48:45] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: about motors - DONT buy a motor before testing the required torque especially with stepper - and then take a safety margin of at least 50%
[05:49:24] <Wolf_> looking at 425oz.in for the Z, and around 200 for the x/y
[05:50:21] <deep_pink_> you can use 425 if the measure show 200
[05:50:49] <Wolf_> if I can get the cnc working I’ll probably get the extended x/y kit and convert them to ball screw
[05:51:01] <deep_pink_> it is soo simple to measure torque
[05:51:43] <deep_pink_> just clamp a vise-grip to the axis and press the and of it with a kitchen scale.
[05:52:26] <deep_pink_> now you know the lengt of the arm, and the force that apply
[05:52:53] <Wolf_> eh, clamp it to the leadscrew?
[05:53:02] <deep_pink_> from than is is very easy to calculate the torque in OZ/in
[05:53:38] <deep_pink_> do you want me to take a pic for you?
[05:56:03] <Wolf_> I have a idea of what you mean, would it make more sense to just use a in/lb torque wrench on it?
[05:56:29] <zeeshan> deep_pink_: im assuming youd be cutting metal
[05:56:31] <zeeshan> while doing this? :)
[05:57:10] <zeeshan> you dont really need to manually do that
[05:57:29] <zeeshan> design your machine for 300lb cutting force
[05:57:39] <zeeshan> you know your leadscrew diameter
[05:57:43] <zeeshan> you can calculate torque
[05:57:49] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: http://i.imgur.com/Yjm7OrI.png
[05:58:34] <deep_pink_> zeeshan: but you have friction and some time the cupling take some..
[05:58:39] <Wolf_> its a small mill, and I’m not reinventing the wheel or anything http://www.embeddedtronics.com/micromill.html < same thing
[05:59:02] <zeeshan> you can use .3 for coeffcient of friction for acme screw
[05:59:44] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: I think is the worst conversion that I ever see.
[06:00:02] <Wolf_> scroll down some lol
[06:00:29] <Wolf_> he rigged the motors up then used it to cut its own replacement motor mounts
[06:00:33] <deep_pink_> zeeshan: It's take 5 sec to test the torqe
[06:00:59] <zeeshan> deep_pink_: but youre not testing for worst case scenario
[06:01:01] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: http://www.calculatoredge.com/new/torque.htm
[06:01:16] <zeeshan> you need to be cutting the heaviest possible cut in some really hard to machine material like stainless
[06:01:23] <zeeshan> to get a good value out of that method youre describing
[06:01:40] <deep_pink_> acording to the calcolation my machine need 300 oz/in
[06:02:13] <deep_pink_> acording to the testing - it need almost 600oz in
[06:02:23] <deep_pink_> I have 1025oz/in
[06:02:45] <deep_pink_> and the machine go smooth
[06:04:13] <deep_pink_> zeeshan: I want to do somting one time right .
[06:05:09] <zeeshan> :)
[06:05:11] <zeeshan> sleep time!!
[06:05:33] <jdh> bike time
[06:06:02] <deep_pink_> the calculation are good if you work with precision parts, the machines and the part that we are talking about are made in china in poor finish, that ma
[06:07:25] <deep_pink_> I get my ball screw with dents - when the ball but hit a dent te torque jump - the calculation dont give you that,
[06:07:42] <deep_pink_> the*
[06:12:00] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: ?
[06:12:09] <Wolf_> yeah?
[06:14:54] <deep_pink_> I'm hope you didn't feel bad about me, I'm just trying to avoid you from buying junk and usless stuff.
[06:19:56] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: ^
[06:20:41] <Wolf_> I don’t mind, but the x1 conversion isn’t really new, in fact the only ones I can find online are over 6years old mostly lol
[06:27:13] <deep_pink_> you have to know that converstion is bassicly set of modification that you do to the milling machine, and if you want to do it cheap it is much better to get simple engraver than try co convert X1 milling machine, in tight budget - becaus you are going to get a cnc with problems that make your parts not acurate
[06:29:31] <deep_pink_> the 2 majer problems with the X! is small table, and slow RPM
[06:29:38] <deep_pink_> x1*
[06:31:02] <Wolf_> slow spindle? planning on converting that to belt drive and I can always steal the 1/2hp motor off my taig lathe that I don’t use
[06:32:10] <deep_pink_> but the travel on the Y axis going to be tiny.
[06:33:17] <deep_pink_> 4 in.
[06:33:24] <Wolf_> there is a fix for that http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2297
[06:34:15] <deep_pink_> you have the x1
[06:34:18] <deep_pink_> ?
[06:34:25] <Wolf_> yeah
[06:34:43] <deep_pink_> you can bring it back to the store?
[06:35:37] <Wolf_> got it about 4yrs ago used along with a 7x10 lathe for $650, came with about $800 in tooling and misc stuff
[06:36:57] <deep_pink_> in this case try to get the maximum out of it..
[06:37:33] <Wolf_> yup, convert it, learn on it, then get something bigger to convert
[06:37:55] <deep_pink_> I have the G0704 and I have about 6" in the Y axis and i wish I had more.
[06:38:37] <Wolf_> I was thinking about a G0704
[06:38:59] <deep_pink_> my convertion pass the 5K..
[06:41:21] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: the problem with the g0704 is the narrow collom
[06:41:32] <trentster> whats the correct terminology for acrylic sides to enclose cnc machine to keep chips in etc?
[06:44:12] <deep_pink_> trentster: polycarbonate sheet
[06:44:53] <trentster> deep_pink_: not the name of the material the name of what you call the side plates once they are made?
[06:45:03] <trentster> e.g. are they called cnc splash plates?
[06:45:18] <malcom2073> trentster: You want polycarbonate, not acrylic
[06:45:18] <Wolf_> machine enclosure ?
[06:45:43] <trentster> Wolf_: I thought a machine enclosure was a full enclosure
[06:46:41] <malcom2073> Also, table enclosure?
[06:46:55] <malcom2073> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/T00LMAN/2013-02-09112444_zps22e4f6b3.jpg
[06:47:17] <deep_pink_> II think the best thing is bullet resistant polycarbonate
[06:47:49] <deep_pink_> malcom2073: it is your machine?
[06:47:51] <trentster> malcom2073: I have made them already out of plexiglass found near dumpster. Just not sure what they are officially called. https://monosnap.com/file/Nv5SYKw5pbuBTgK0d3JqKhCsuPdsuJ
[06:47:55] <malcom2073> deep_pink_: no
[06:49:16] <malcom2073> trentster: Just don't use any coolant when cutting heh
[06:50:30] <trentster> for any folks who are interested new gantry design plates are in and are really really solid - they have place for structural ribs - but have not needed to add them yet. https://monosnap.com/file/oIkrPeaCYOxos2FCQ7oRGwsEIOmgKj
[06:50:43] <trentster> its really a new machine with these net gantry sides
[06:51:02] <trentster> malcom2073: does coolant eat plexiglass?
[06:51:12] <malcom2073> trentster: iirc it crazes it
[06:51:15] <malcom2073> at least some do
[06:52:00] <trentster> interesting - I will test - I recall these getting wd40 on them and having no effect
[06:52:20] <malcom2073> I think oil is ok
[06:58:50] <trentster> malcom2073: thanks I will keep an eye on it
[07:01:04] <Wolf_> hmm http://www.ebay.com/itm/261995690001 looks like overkill for my x1
[07:01:28] <Wolf_> grr didn’t notice the shipping catch lol
[07:17:39] <Wolf_> http://www.ebay.com/itm//301610212262 good/bad/runaway?
[07:23:03] <fenn> agreed looks like overkill
[07:23:55] <fenn> but then you can put it on the bigger mill you get when you realize the x1 isn't enough
[07:24:33] <Wolf_> wonder what size steppers would be good for a plasma table...
[07:24:57] <fenn> i think servos would be a better match for plasma because you do a lot more high speed moves
[07:25:10] <Wolf_> true
[07:33:53] <fenn> lol @ just_pink "teaching" xxcoder about AISI alloy designations and rockwell hardness
[07:34:39] <fenn> 1080p the p stands for precision
[07:38:34] <SpeedEvil> fenn: well - it does if you're using a LCD shutter 3d printer :)
[07:55:22] <jthornton> Tom_itx, in about 1h 15m check the html docs, I think I have fixed everything
[07:55:58] <jthornton> fenn I applied your changes to the html
[08:07:45] <Wolf_> hmm… $204 for a 270oz.in kit, or $247 for 425oz.in, same DM542A drivers and 36v/9.7A PSU…
[08:08:34] <archivist> jthornton, which html docs ?
[08:15:03] <fenn> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/ looks the same as before
[08:15:36] * fenn reads the text and waits 1 hour
[08:16:35] <archivist> fenn, your page had a div mismatch error
[08:19:10] <fenn> yeah i know. jthornton could i bug you to add a </div> after </UL> on line 156 (sec5)
[08:20:31] <fenn> firefox doesn't like the missing </div>
[08:43:57] <Jymmm> Here we go, THIS is what LinuxCNC needs... http://search.ebay.com/121281557635
[09:10:28] <Tom_itx> jthornton, looks good here
[09:12:58] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: not sure what you mean since I didn't see any claims that it can control your CNC from your iphone while at the beach :)
[09:15:03] * furrywolf bets vnc could do that
[09:15:46] <furrywolf> (assuming there's an iphone vnc client, and apple hasn't banned it for being incompatible with the apple philosophy of not letting you access any non-apple-approved services)
[09:16:09] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: twitch. CNC is totally a game
[09:16:40] <furrywolf> ?
[09:17:33] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[09:17:47] <SpeedEvil> Twitch is a game streaming service
[09:17:58] <furrywolf> ah
[09:20:20] * furrywolf knows very little about games
[09:24:31] <SpeedEvil> I use it when I want to watch a girl, dressed as an elf, kill zombies with a frying pan.
[09:25:48] <SpeedEvil> To be clear - not dressed as an elf in-game.
[09:25:52] <furrywolf> lol
[09:26:10] <fenn> now it all makes sense
[09:42:21] * furrywolf figures that must be some form of porn for gamers
[10:05:59] <MrSunshine> how to remove burnt glue from particleboard? :/
[10:06:04] <MrSunshine> that is on the router bits
[10:07:38] <PetefromTn_> i have taken a propane torch to them carefully and the glue just drools off
[10:08:00] <PetefromTn_> probably making them less strong in the process tho LOL
[10:08:11] <PetefromTn_> might try some acetone too
[10:08:58] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, have you seen this? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/carousel.9.html
[10:09:07] <Tom_itx> looking over the new 2.7 docs a bit
[10:09:14] <PetefromTn_> nope
[10:09:27] <PetefromTn_> I have been buried in Tig practice ;)
[10:09:44] <Tom_itx> burns to prove it?
[10:09:48] <furrywolf> soak in gasoline
[10:10:05] <PetefromTn_> LOL actually yes
[10:10:28] <furrywolf> I need a TIG welder, but so far no one on craigslist will take a honda generator in trade.
[10:10:39] <furrywolf> that's my new plan... assembling an entire shop by trading honda generators. :P
[10:11:07] <furrywolf> already got a mill, now need a lathe, tig welder,... :P
[10:11:13] <PetefromTn_> heh no crazier than trying to build a shop making money from a single CNC machine LOL
[10:11:32] <furrywolf> I traded an eu2000i for my mill...
[10:13:08] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx http://i.imgur.com/jDMwrya.jpg this is what happens when you reposition yourself quickly with a hot end of a tig wire not carefully enough.. Just the slightest instant and BAM
[10:14:49] <Tom_itx> you're supposed to cauterize wounds with hot wire, not make new ones
[10:15:13] <PetefromTn_> LOL I know right...where were you when I needed ya?
[10:15:55] <PetefromTn_> sounds like Andy built a special carousel component JUST for me huh....
[10:16:11] <Tom_itx> he had you in mind when writing it
[10:17:27] <PetefromTn_> I should give him a big kiss for that hehehe I just gotta get the analog control wired up but I am worried about what I am going to be losing with the modbus and what it will disable IE the index mask etc.
[10:17:43] <PetefromTn_> I need to pick a weekend to ONLY work on the toolchanger or something
[10:22:33] <Tom_itx> there's also an example for raising the spindle for picking up the tool
[10:22:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah mine does that to pickup and release
[10:44:03] <MrSunshine> gasoline seem to have no effect on this glue
[10:44:11] <MrSunshine> nor does dish soap or ordenary soap
[10:44:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150801-engineering-student-develops-large-concrete-3d-printer-in-his-garage.html maybe it's jjst me but this would have been much more impressive if he did it in his bathroom of his 4th floor walkup
[10:52:48] <CaptHindsight> MrSunshine: burned particle board adhesive?
[10:56:46] <MrSunshine> CaptHindsight: yes
[10:57:07] <MrSunshine> found that cmt has some cleaner for their bits etc .. might be worth a try
[10:59:53] <MrSunshine> sucks that i need to order alot more to get the free shipping tho :P
[10:59:58] <MrSunshine> and i dont know what more to buy right now :P
[11:00:18] <DaViruz> MrSunshine: acetone?
[11:00:37] <MrSunshine> tried before .. acetone .. wd40 etc nothing seems to get it :/
[11:01:41] <fenn> methylene chloride!
[11:05:23] <furrywolf> MEK is often good
[11:05:49] <fenn> i was mostly joking, don't try methylene chloride. better to just stop using particle board, that stuff is terrible in every way
[11:06:28] <fenn> random web page recommends oven cleaner (alkaline)
[11:07:32] <fenn> or "simple green" degreaser if you know what that is
[11:08:20] <MrSunshine> fenn: its cheap to use and nice to build jigs and stuff from =)
[11:08:25] <cradek> did you try rubbing alcohol?
[11:08:42] <MrSunshine> what is rubbing alcohol ?
[11:08:54] <fenn> isopropanol or ethanol
[11:09:16] <MrSunshine> nop .. and do not have any :/ tho i know a friend has some .. =)
[11:09:35] <MrSunshine> but i think i will order a gallon of cmts cleaner later .. got some mighty dirty router bits to clean :P
[11:10:55] <zeeshan> anyone here good with surface modelling?
[11:12:37] <furrywolf> you're the cad expert here. :P
[11:12:53] <fenn> zeeshan: you want to use a nurbs modeler for that part, not spline lofting
[11:13:04] <zeeshan> fenn: ive done nurbs modelling
[11:13:19] <zeeshan> its just as hard!! :(
[11:13:25] <fenn> heh ok
[11:13:32] <PetefromTn_> why are you buring and coating the endmills in the first place?
[11:15:05] <fenn> birch plywood is not that expensive if you're just using it for little jigs and things (not making a bookshelf)
[11:15:08] <zeeshan> why do shapes need to look organic :-(
[11:15:55] <zeeshan> fenn: this is what i had to do using nurbs
[11:15:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/4x7DtfH.png
[11:16:10] <zeeshan> that shit took forever dude
[11:16:29] * furrywolf still has no clue what zeeshan is making
[11:16:45] <zeeshan> i told ya
[11:16:48] <zeeshan> its a case for an e-cig
[11:16:51] <zeeshan> for a customer
[11:17:01] <fenn> zeeshan that reminds me of using a tandy computer to design cars in elementary school
[11:17:19] <furrywolf> tell your customer is looks like shit, both figuratively and literally. :P
[11:17:22] <zeeshan> lol
[11:17:23] <furrywolf> s/is/it
[11:17:58] <fenn> zeeshan just design it like a normal part with lots of large radius chamfers
[11:18:08] <zeeshan> i tried that
[11:18:09] <zeeshan> doesnt work
[11:18:18] <zeeshan> its a really damn complex shape
[11:18:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9dxQION.jpg
[11:18:23] <zeeshan> im getting close
[11:18:30] <zeeshan> but i still have a shit load of bumps in the surface
[11:18:33] <zeeshan> that im trying to get rid of
[11:18:39] <zeeshan> even though i have met tangency
[11:19:01] <CaptHindsight> the ID folks always tend to prefer Creo/ProE for dis stuff
[11:19:14] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i was told alias was the leader
[11:19:18] <zeeshan> and that software is complete shit
[11:19:29] <zeeshan> we take history tree for granted in cad.
[11:19:37] <CaptHindsight> for looks, like rhino
[11:19:43] <furrywolf> who here knows something about tapers? I'm trying to figure out what my new mill has. what's the difference between CT40, BT40, Cat40, NMTB40, ISO40, and #40? argh.
[11:19:52] <fenn> i was going to suggest rhino even though i've never used it
[11:19:53] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you didnt pay attention
[11:19:55] <zeeshan> to me before did you!
[11:19:59] <zeeshan> when i was trying to figure mine out :P
[11:20:11] <CaptHindsight> but when they need dimensions it's Creo/ProE
[11:20:19] <furrywolf> would be nice if the manual told me! heh
[11:20:20] <zeeshan> bt40 and cat40 are literally the same
[11:20:39] <zeeshan> except the end of it is threaded for either 5/8-11 for cat40
[11:20:46] <zeeshan> or m16 or something like that for bt40
[11:21:04] <PetefromTn_> if you squint you eyes really hard and turn your head sideways it KINDA looks like part of the venus demilo...;)
[11:21:21] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com: ROPFL
[11:21:22] <zeeshan> hahahhaha
[11:21:25] <zeeshan> thank you for making my day
[11:21:35] <PetefromTn_> np
[11:21:36] <furrywolf> I'm willing to bet it's not metric. :)
[11:21:43] <zeeshan> gahahah
[11:21:46] <PetefromTn_> don't even say metric
[11:22:07] <zeeshan> nmtb 40 from what i remember
[11:22:14] <zeeshan> has a different flange
[11:22:21] <zeeshan> http://www.techniksusa.com/images2008/end_mill_holders/CAT40EMH_stubby_l.jpg <- cat40
[11:22:31] <furrywolf> given as it's american from the '40s. :P
[11:22:46] <zeeshan> http://d1bwdd6xglc35q.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/41/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/106808_hpt_fs_1.jphttp://d1bwdd6xglc35q.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/41/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/106808_hpt_fs_1.jpg
[11:22:48] <zeeshan> iso40
[11:22:54] <furrywolf> I found one page that placed it between 1946 and mid 1950s based on various features
[11:22:55] <zeeshan> the first thing you need to determine is taper.
[11:23:04] <zeeshan> just measure the bottom diameter of the taper that'll tell you what you got
[11:23:19] <furrywolf> it looks like 40 to me from what I've seen before, and found a page saying that. I'll double-check tomorrow, however.
[11:23:31] <zeeshan> well that is a bit odd
[11:23:41] <zeeshan> you usually cat40 on bigger machines
[11:23:56] <zeeshan> you sure its #40?
[11:23:59] <furrywolf> link above is blank
[11:24:07] <zeeshan> it should be #40
[11:24:08] <zeeshan> http://d1bwdd6xglc35q.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/41/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/106808_hpt_fs_1.jpg
[11:24:16] <furrywolf> it's a 6.5ft tall machine with a >4ft wide table... it's not THAT small...
[11:24:48] <zeeshan> it is a normal sized manual mill
[11:24:48] <PetefromTn_> lots of early horiz and vert machined had cat40 style toolholders
[11:24:55] <furrywolf> that's the right overall shape all right, complete with the two cuts in the side of the flange.
[11:25:02] <zeeshan> thats true, but is his horizontal?
[11:25:10] <furrywolf> mine vertical
[11:25:21] <furrywolf> it was available in a horizontal and a universal version, however
[11:25:27] <zeeshan> notice the extra cylinder for iso40
[11:25:31] <zeeshan> its quite different of a tool holder
[11:25:59] <zeeshan> http://www.aptint.com/machines/7222/7222_1_m.jpg
[11:26:06] <zeeshan> that is a "bigger" mill
[11:26:08] <furrywolf> There's "Lot of 24 Haas CT-40 Tool Holders, various models, new condition" coming up at a local auction monday, wondering if I should be bidding on them. :)
[11:27:08] * furrywolf also wants the "Mori-Seiki Turning Center SL-1" and other stuff at the auction
[11:28:10] <furrywolf> bbl, someone here
[11:30:08] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5g4c1cI8lg
[11:30:21] <furrywolf> back
[11:30:23] <zeeshan> most of the youtube creators for machining are here :P
[11:30:45] <zeeshan> abom789!!
[11:33:45] <fenn> zeeshan: i can't download that video, what is it?
[11:33:50] <zeeshan> its not a download
[11:33:51] <zeeshan> lol
[11:33:55] <zeeshan> its all the youtube guys together
[11:33:59] <zeeshan> from the machining community
[11:34:07] <zeeshan> wish i coulda gone
[11:34:18] <PetefromTn_> how come I wasn't invited :(
[11:34:29] <zeeshan> everyone was
[11:34:33] <zeeshan> you dont follow some of these guys?
[11:34:38] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: none of us were either. :P
[11:34:41] <zeeshan> i learn so much from em just by watching em work
[11:34:42] <PetefromTn_> musta missed the invite
[11:35:06] * furrywolf doesn't "follow" anything to do with youtube
[11:35:12] <PetefromTn_> we need to have ANOTHER East Tennessee CNC fest over here LOL
[11:35:19] <zeeshan> john nyccnc
[11:35:21] <zeeshan> is also there
[11:35:24] <fenn> oh it's a live stream
[11:35:32] <PetefromTn_> can't stand that guy really
[11:35:43] <zeeshan> oxtoolco, abom79, nyccnc, randy richard in the shop, keith rucker
[11:35:50] <zeeshan> the only person famous and missing is keith fenner
[11:35:59] <fenn> terrible audio compression
[11:36:03] <zeeshan> i think even tactical keychain is there
[11:36:06] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: me either lol
[11:36:11] <zeeshan> i force myself to watch his videos
[11:36:42] <PetefromTn_> oxtoolco, keith fenner, abom, MrPete are all I occasionally watch
[11:36:48] <zeeshan> no mrpete there :(
[11:36:55] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: you gotta watch abom79
[11:36:57] <zeeshan> hes really good
[11:37:06] <furrywolf> how about a far northern california non-youtube meet? :P
[11:37:08] <PetefromTn_> ^^
[11:37:16] <zeeshan> a couple weeks after i subscribed to his channel
[11:37:18] <zeeshan> his dad died :(
[11:37:23] <PetefromTn_> NO man I already told you an EAST TENNESSEE MEET
[11:37:29] <furrywolf> video doesn't work here either, at all
[11:37:39] <zeeshan> furrywolf: this is in your neck of the woods
[11:37:43] <zeeshan> well socal not north cal
[11:37:44] <furrywolf> looks like youtube is broken.
[11:37:45] <archivist> UK meet!!!!!
[11:37:46] <zeeshan> but you're closer than i am
[11:37:57] <fenn> furrywolf: it's just some dudes standing around talking
[11:38:00] <PetefromTn_> Socal is a LONG way from Norcal LOL
[11:38:11] <zeeshan> he at least its in the same state!!
[11:38:17] <renesis> i just did the drive, can confirm
[11:38:18] <zeeshan> im in a bloody igloo here
[11:38:27] <furrywolf> youtube is complaining my html5 video doesn't work, however my html5 video works perfectly, and firefox says it's never even being given a video to play.
[11:38:32] <archivist> sunny day here
[11:38:55] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the distance between farnorcal and socal is larger than crossing most of the states in US.
[11:38:56] <PetefromTn_> archivist I would come to a UK meet if you pay for the tickets ;)
[11:39:06] <archivist> wot!
[11:39:13] <zeeshan> archivist: dont worry i am coming
[11:39:15] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[11:39:19] <zeeshan> but you might be missing a lot of things after
[11:39:21] <furrywolf> bbl
[11:39:31] <renesis> los angeles to furry is prob 700 miles
[11:39:40] <zeeshan> thats nothing
[11:39:42] * archivist buys a large safe
[11:39:45] <zeeshan> you're calling that long?!
[11:39:46] <zeeshan> :P
[11:40:00] <renesis> thats pretty long, i just did like 600
[11:40:23] <PetefromTn_> better than Tennessee to Chicago heh
[11:40:36] <renesis> right around the length where a nap midway makes things way easier
[11:41:49] <renesis> the scenery is probably nicer, los angeles to humbolt vs chicago to tennessee
[11:42:10] <PetefromTn_> scenery? what's that?
[11:42:41] <renesis> like, trees, hills, ocean, seacliffs
[11:42:52] <renesis> happy cows, unhappy cows
[11:43:17] <PetefromTn_> I know I have driven from SD to Sacto several times.... except for the smell somewhere in the middle it was not terrible ;)
[11:43:41] <renesis> i dont drive the smelly parts of the 5
[11:43:50] <PetefromTn_> how do you avoid em?
[11:44:09] <renesis> i drive up the 101 to almost monterey, cut across to the 5 past the cow oceans
[11:44:14] <PetefromTn_> what is that a pig farm or chicken farm?
[11:44:27] <renesis> that way you avoid the toll ways and bridges in the bay area
[11:44:36] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man you start smelling it about an hour before you get there and you get to enjoy it for about an hour past it...
[11:45:11] <PetefromTn_> bakersfield?
[11:45:13] <renesis> i hit the 5 right little below stockton, no smells
[11:46:29] <renesis> and yeah bakersfield sounds right for smelly zone
[11:46:39] <renesis> its also dry and dusty, its also boring
[11:46:40] <PetefromTn_> OMG it STINKS
[11:46:57] <renesis> dude its an ocean of cows how can it not stink
[11:47:01] <PetefromTn_> and you can't avoid it no matter what you do
[11:47:08] <renesis> you drive the coast
[11:47:14] <renesis> and cut over
[11:47:22] <PetefromTn_> drove the PCH a couple times..
[11:47:24] <renesis> the smell doesnt get over the mountains
[11:47:34] <PetefromTn_> went from Frisco north and Frisco south
[11:47:45] <PetefromTn_> Monterrey
[11:47:48] <PetefromTn_> Beautiful
[11:48:03] <renesis> monterey to SLO is a nice stretch of pch
[11:48:31] <zeeshan> lol
[11:48:35] <zeeshan> these guys are talking machining
[11:48:40] <renesis> but its crowded, and not so twisty, also it goes past the 101 where i cut across on the 156/152, so almost never do it
[11:48:41] <zeeshan> and making machining jokes
[11:49:29] <renesis> petefromtn_: that area, and the 101 close to oregon border is prob most beautiful drives in ca
[11:49:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah agree
[11:51:04] <renesis> so ill drive the extra 90mi to take the 101 past the 5 in the lower central valley
[11:51:58] <renesis> some of the sexiest scenery in north america versus concentration camps for cows, easy decision for me
[11:51:58] <PetefromTn_> great motorcycle ride
[11:52:18] <renesis> probably
[11:52:59] <renesis> the 1 between slo and monterey is tons of motorcycles and cops, nice slow cruise, pedestrians at turnsouts everywhere
[11:53:38] <renesis> less crowded up where furry lives
[11:53:59] <PetefromTn_> just more crackheads hehe according to him
[11:55:00] <renesis> its not as much of a pothead mecca since legalization, so prob typical rural level of tweakers
[11:56:03] * PetefromTn_ whenever I think of the word tweakers I musingly replace it with zombies hehe
[11:56:15] <renesis> furrywolf thinks potheads are junkies tho so im guessing theres a bit of bias, heh
[11:56:41] <renesis> petefromtn_: haha ya, gas station attendant zombies are the weirdest
[11:56:58] <renesis> like, stuck in a loop sweeping the same aisle for 20 minutes wtf
[11:57:19] <PetefromTn_> and those are the smart ones ;)
[11:58:24] <renesis> ya they have jobs
[11:58:30] <renesis> funtional tweakers, kinda
[11:58:41] <renesis> ^c
[12:00:21] <jthornton> archivist what tool do you use to find the div mismatch?
[12:02:16] <jthornton> geeze that was a tough ride this morning
[12:20:41] <archivist> jthornton, https://validator.w3.org
[14:00:54] <Wolf_> Still haven’t made up my mind on this seig x1 steppers, part of me it saying just buy cheap shit like $20 227 oz.in 23s and dirt cheap TB6560 drivers
[14:01:28] <Wolf_> sieg*
[14:10:20] <jthornton> you get what you pay for usually
[14:11:01] <zeeshan> jthornton: that explains the STD i got from the hooker!
[14:11:03] <zeeshan> jk
[14:11:05] <zeeshan> inappropriate
[14:11:11] <zeeshan> im going crazy with this surface modelling stuff
[14:11:21] <Wolf_> yeah, I know that, but more so wondering if sieg x1 really needs more then 227oz.in on the x/y…
[14:11:43] <zeeshan> why would you buy garbage drivers
[14:11:51] <zeeshan> that blow a cap in a couple uses
[14:11:52] <jthornton> 227oz is how hard the stepper will stay still...
[14:12:19] <zeeshan> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6790816639.html?orderId=68267414693163
[14:12:22] <zeeshan> when you can just buy this!
[14:12:54] <zeeshan> it even says its the most powerful
[14:13:36] <Wolf_> lol, so many m542 on eBay… all with added letters from china
[14:14:35] <jthornton> look at the torque chart for steppers http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/surestepmotors.pdf
[14:14:38] <Wolf_> so what aspect of the steppers should I be looking at, current rating?
[14:15:30] <zeeshan> Wolf_: just buy the cheap shit
[14:15:33] <zeeshan> so you can learn the hard way
[14:15:42] <zeeshan> trust me, i was the same in the beginning :P
[14:15:47] <zeeshan> you won't learn otherwise
[14:15:54] <Jymmm> Here we go, THIS is what LinuxCNC needs... http://search.ebay.com/121281557635 (CaptHindsight nope, no iPhone, Android only ;)
[14:16:31] <Jymmm> zeeshan++
[14:17:04] <Wolf_> well, the steppers are oddly Sanyo nema 23
[14:18:07] <jthornton> did you look at the torque charts?
[14:20:06] <Wolf_> yeah, faster=less torque, and higher current rating has flatter curve
[14:20:22] <jthornton> higher voltage
[14:21:25] <Jymmm> Wolf_: I would HIGHLY recommend that you read ALL of this, actually a few times as there is a LOT of informaiton in it that will help in the long run... http://www.geckodrive.com/media/wysiwyg/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf
[14:21:52] <Wolf_> ebay sanyo listing says nema 23 3.35A 36v 227oz.in holding 6wire
[14:22:00] <jthornton> so the lesson is if you use a 24v power supply on a 227oz stepper when you start moving your at 180oz at 500 RPM your half that etc
[14:22:26] <jthornton> how much?
[14:22:56] <Wolf_> $20 +$7sh +$2 of each added
[14:43:38] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: now servo drivers become cheaper, they cost almost the same as stepper drivers, why do you want to work with stepper?
[14:46:21] <fenn> deep_pink_: what's a good and inexpensive servo driver?
[14:46:43] <fenn> everything i see is like $150
[14:47:11] <Wolf_> yeah, let me know, I have nema 34 servo motors sitting here that I picked up like 7-8 years ago
[14:47:44] <Wolf_> granted that they are 3phase dc…
[14:47:50] <deep_pink_> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-servo-motor-driver/geckodrive-servo-motor-driver-g320x
[14:48:05] <deep_pink_> $114.95
[14:48:17] <fenn> that's the price he would pay for a 3 axis kit including stepper motors and driver board
[14:49:27] <deep_pink_> but you cant comper junk to made in usa
[14:49:43] <Wolf_> yeah, right now i’m looking at $70 steppers+ $25 drivers (I don’t mind reworking boards lol) + $34 psu and a c10 bob
[14:49:53] <fenn> sure, but i don't even need the fancy things the g320 does
[14:50:18] <fenn> i'd rather have a dumb h-bridge and let linuxcnc do all the thinking
[14:53:20] <fenn> Wolf_: 3 phase servo driver $20 ea http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLDC-Power-3-Phase-Servo-Motor-Driver-Hall-Effect-MC33033-MC33039-PIC16F873A-/271582181158
[14:53:51] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: even the guy that you show yesterday at the end use servo..
[14:54:21] <deep_pink_> Wolf_: but he cange the motors 3 times to understand it..
[14:55:53] <Wolf_> fenn: damn thats cheap
[14:56:21] <fenn> you'd need a mesa card too ($80 i think)
[14:58:30] <Wolf_> that and a computer without crappy latency
[14:58:59] <JT-Shop> if you use a mesa card latency is not as important
[14:59:18] <Wolf_> oh, thats good to know
[15:01:06] <fenn> man i need a spreadsheet of mesa's products
[15:01:36] <t12> http://www.mesanet.com/prices.pdf ?
[15:01:49] <fenn> yes it's great that they actually give you prices
[15:01:50] <PetefromTn_> ya know that is NOT a bad idea... something simple with just application specifics
[15:02:19] <fenn> there's a lot of stuff i don't imagine anyone using linuxcnc would ever need, like the pc104 and smart servo drivers etc
[15:02:21] <PetefromTn_> I know they make a bunch of different quality boards but I'll be damned if I know what most of them do LOL
[15:03:10] <fenn> the part numbers are inscrutable
[15:04:08] <PetefromTn_> ooh good word!
[15:04:34] <fenn> you have to roll the r when you say it
[15:09:58] <fenn> huh apparently the "smart serial" servo drives are supported by linuxcnc http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/sserial.9.html
[15:26:20] <Wolf_> shit, picking this stuff out is so much fun
[15:26:29] * Wolf_ bangs head on desk
[15:30:56] <fenn> to talk to those 3 phase servo drives you would also need a 7i33 ($69) and 5i25LP ($89) and maybe some cables and a free PCI slot
[15:32:06] <fenn> or you might be able to wire the 5i25 PWM outputs directly to the drives since they are 0-5V
[15:32:07] <Tom_itx> .
[15:32:12] <Wolf_> going stepper route for my intro to messing with this stuff
[15:35:57] <Wolf_> TB6600 drivers, 36v 350w psu and the sanyo steppers have me at $159.2 in my cart toss a c10 bob and I think I’m set to start (well plus mounting the things…)
[16:25:09] <Wolf_> hmm, scratch the b6600 drivers, from what I’m reading online the eBay ones are total crap
[16:25:18] <Wolf_> *tb6600
[16:31:05] <Deejay> gnite
[17:05:41] <Wolf_> zeeshan: was that suggestion serious on the M542H driver?
[17:05:55] <zeeshan> yes
[17:05:56] <JT-Shop> can you guys see this https://www.google.com/maps/@36.80011,-90.493925,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!6m1!1szgvL6SexnLkM.kBVXz8EQg6lw
[17:06:00] <zeeshan> but im glad you acknowledge i troll
[17:06:01] <zeeshan> sometimes
[17:06:36] <Wolf_> I seem to be going in circles looking at steppers…
[17:06:43] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: yes
[17:07:17] <JT-Shop> the red lines are where I ride my mountain bike and I just fingered out how to add them to google maps lol
[17:09:18] <JT-Shop> Wolf_, if I was picking out a stepper system for <50v I'd use Gecko 251's, with an Antec power supply and steppers of your choice
[17:10:20] <JT-Shop> but I assume your mill is a manual with acme lead screws so it will only be as good as the lead screws
[17:10:55] <Wolf_> ouch $229 each… its a Seig x1/harbor freight micro mill i’m messing with
[17:11:36] <JT-Shop> $89 each
[17:12:06] <Wolf_> oops looking at the wrong one
[17:12:18] <JT-Shop> anything would be better than the blue board
[17:13:39] <Wolf_> I keep ending up looking at the longs motor kits on eBay… m542H drivers + nema 23 steppers
[17:13:50] <JT-Shop> the drive zeeshan linked to looked ok as a step down
[17:14:04] <JT-Shop> time to take the wife to dinner see you guys later
[19:00:32] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vHrXBNwW60
[19:01:51] <PetefromTn_> Nice Moby...
[19:04:38] <zeeshan> yea hes good!
[19:13:51] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, if you update to 2.7, the sample code for the changer is in: usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/axis/vismach/VMC-toolchange
[19:14:00] <Tom_itx> there is a sim there you can run
[19:14:17] <PetefromTn_> OK
[19:14:21] <Tom_itx> afk to fix a sway bar now
[19:14:25] <PetefromTn_> I will try to do that
[20:20:31] <furrywolf> I went to the auction of a local hardware store going out of business today... I wish I had more space. I would have bought just about everything.
[20:20:49] <furrywolf> it went cheap. really, really, really cheap.
[20:20:50] <furrywolf> instead I got just a few little things
[20:21:03] <Tom_itx> maybe you should have asked if the building was for sale so you could store your stuff there
[20:21:23] <furrywolf> the entire hardware isle, everything from hinges to cable accessories to hooks to chains etc etc... $200.
[20:21:40] <furrywolf> the entire tool accessory section - drill bits, sawzall blades, hole saws, etc, etc, etc - $400
[20:21:52] <furrywolf> pallet racking $20/section
[20:22:19] <furrywolf> the fastener isle, all the bolts in pins, trays, etc, plus all the other little stuff you find in those bins, $1250
[20:22:29] <furrywolf> s/pins/bins
[20:22:40] <zeeshan> any co2 regulators? :D
[20:22:50] <furrywolf> I think they sold off the entire inventory for under $10k
[20:23:06] <furrywolf> zeeshan: dunno, but the entire welding and abrasives section sold for $200ish (don't remember the exact price)
[20:23:39] <furrywolf> I missed it, but I heard they sold their brand new 2015 diesel flatbed lumber delivery truck for $9k.
[20:23:57] <zeeshan> :O
[20:24:20] <furrywolf> the entire socket, wrench, and screwdriver section was $175
[20:25:00] <furrywolf> I bought two bins of assorted tools (dewalt power tools, misc hand tools) plus, the two things I really wanted, a brand new cable crimper and a brand new cable cutter for $50.
[20:25:09] <furrywolf> and 30 gallons of paint for $60.
[20:25:16] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: you have no land to put up stuff on temporarily?
[20:25:35] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: sounds like an awesome sale :)
[20:25:49] <furrywolf> I also bought their metal display... the one about 2ft square with all the 4ft lengths of allthread, unistrut, small angle iron, etc. $30.
[20:26:44] <SpeedEvil> nice
[20:26:53] <furrywolf> if I'd had the space, I would have bought it all. $400 for the entire aisle of power tool accessories! you can't even buy 40 name-brand sawzall blades for that price anymore.
[20:27:13] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: damn shame for the owner, but they may not care.
[20:27:14] <furrywolf> that included the entire display of oscillating multitool blades
[20:27:33] <furrywolf> I think the entire display of carbide router bits went for around $50.
[20:27:38] <furrywolf> owner was looking very, very glum.
[20:27:56] <SpeedEvil> At that point you say no, everyone out, and start listing stuff on ebay
[20:28:06] <furrywolf> heh
[20:29:14] <furrywolf> the entire automotive section went for $25, as did the entire propane and bbq section.
[20:29:56] <furrywolf> I missed the electrical and plumbing, but I heard it sold about the same. when I got there, they sold the entire fluorescent light section for $25, and the entire tv accessory section for $20.
[20:30:37] <furrywolf> someone bought all the doors at $25/each, including $1500 fancy doors with wrought iron work on the front...
[20:31:10] <furrywolf> the entire trim+molding section sold for $100. two aisles of it.
[20:31:30] <SpeedEvil> That must be getting damn near to not even a cent on the dollar for much of it
[20:31:38] <furrywolf> I missed most of the lumber, but I heard the entire wall of pine and redwood sold for $125.
[20:32:38] <SpeedEvil> :/
[20:32:48] <Wolf_> damn… lots of stuff for next to nothing $$
[20:33:57] <furrywolf> as I said, if I had place to put it, I'd have bought just about all of it... even if I only used 1 in 100 items, I'd still be beating retail prices.
[20:35:10] <furrywolf> figure the average item price in the power tool accessory section was $5-$10. there were probably 5000 items. that's $25,000-$50,000 of items for $400.
[20:35:52] <Wolf_> I gave up trying to put together a stepper/driver combo on ebay, going to order a longs motors kit and some sensors to get started… least i’m under $300 in the cart
[20:36:39] <furrywolf> sawzall blades, multitool blades/accessories, drill bits (wood, metal, masonry, etc), screwdriver bits, all the drill and screwdriver accessories (extensions, etc, etc), hole saws, circular saw blades, and everything else you'd find in that section of a hardware store. $400. all of it.
[20:36:50] <furrywolf> the whole aisle.
[20:37:10] <Wolf_> damn, a large hole saw kit is over $200 alone
[20:37:27] <furrywolf> they had them up to 6" I think.
[20:37:49] <furrywolf> all name brand. this store didn't sell much china tools. I think they were mostly milwaukee.
[20:37:50] <Wolf_> I think thats what my set goes up to
[20:38:12] * furrywolf is pissed off
[20:38:28] <furrywolf> if I had a proper house and shop, I could have saved/made whole lots of money. :(
[20:39:16] <Wolf_> http://amzn.com/B0017WOBLE $173 3yrs ago
[20:39:36] <furrywolf> I would have bought all the tools, and a lot of the hardware.
[20:39:47] <furrywolf> the entire fastener aisle $1250!
[20:40:25] <Wolf_> hell few milwaukee cordless tools will get you over $1000
[20:40:54] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snap-On-Tools-Geared-Head-Torque-Multiplier-X4-Model-GA184A-/271943014333 earlier in the day, I'd picked up one of those for $50 at a yard sale, and was thinking what a good deal I got... the people at the auction got a lot more for their $50. heh.
[20:41:15] <furrywolf> there were no new power tools left. one of the staff made some private arrangement with the owner to get all of them. I suspect they'll be on ebay.
[20:41:25] <furrywolf> corded or cordless
[20:41:49] <Wolf_> man, you suck, where are you located, I need to start checking yard sales there :P
[20:42:04] <furrywolf> and the auctions!
[20:43:01] <furrywolf> the torque multiplier appears to be new. no signs of use. I suspect he got it for one project, used it once, then it went in the toolbox.
[20:44:32] <Wolf_> I have a few odd things in my shop like that, not many tho
[20:45:04] <furrywolf> he was a retired mechanic, used to work at the local concrete company, selling his unneeded tools.
[20:45:59] <furrywolf> he had some other snapon there, but wanted way too much for it... if I wanted to spend $250 for a socket set I'd go on ebay. heh.
[20:46:51] <Wolf_> I like snapon ratchets but I won’t buy their sockets, too much $$$
[20:47:01] <furrywolf> I got some other assorted non-snapon stuff from him... two proto 1/2" drive torque wrenches and two other-US-brand 1/4" torque wrenches for $30, a Proto 3/4" drive ratchet for $15, etc.
[20:47:45] <furrywolf> I don't much like snapon ratchets. my favorites are S+K and Easco.
[20:48:02] <furrywolf> the Easco double-pawl ones are NICE.
[20:48:11] <furrywolf> far, far nicer than anything snapon's ever turned out.
[20:48:27] <Wolf_> hmm, I’ll have to check that out out
[20:48:39] <Wolf_> s/out/one
[20:49:11] <furrywolf> they're fine-tooth ratchets... except with two complete ratchet mechanisms offset by half a tooth. this gives them the strength of any other ratchet, but with tiny steps that'll ratchet even when you can barely move the handle.
[20:49:52] <Wolf_> with newer cars that can be a really handy thing
[20:50:35] <furrywolf> and S+K makes some nigh-indestructable fine-tooth ratchets.
[20:51:05] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EASCO-73-1111-RATCHET-VINTAGE-USA-/141732797124 I think that's one of the nice easco ones.
[20:51:07] <Wolf_> I dunno about that, I have a S+K that I broke the head housing in half on
[20:51:35] <furrywolf> heh. note the easco had a nice thick head, and a tapered handle that's stronger as it gets towards the head.
[20:52:03] <Wolf_> funny part, SK the gears are fine it in lol
[20:52:30] <furrywolf> might have been a defect in the steel. I haven't managed to break one. they'll twist your extensions first. :)
[20:52:53] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-S-K-42470-1-2-DRIVE-RATCHET-IN-GOOD-WORKING-CONDITION-U-S-A-/171876804018 those are the s-k ones I like.
[20:53:11] <Wolf_> same one I broke
[20:53:26] <furrywolf> I have an Easco ratchet with my snapon sockets. it's better than my snapon ratchet. :P
[20:53:31] <furrywolf> I broke my snapon ratchet. lol
[20:53:41] <furrywolf> it's somewhere. I don't remember where. need to find it and track down the truck one of these days.
[20:54:07] <Tom_itx> i used to do that
[20:54:11] <Wolf_> I have stripped my snapon ratchet a few times, still need to get it rebuilt again
[20:54:13] <Tom_itx> got tired of chasing them around
[20:54:28] <furrywolf> it had stupidly annoyingly large steps, because of big teeth, and I still stripped them off.
[20:54:53] <furrywolf> now, craftsman ratchets... I think you can strip those by looking at them funny.
[20:55:16] <Wolf_> hmm, order all this stuff or not…
[20:55:45] <Wolf_> oddly I haven’t killed any of my craftsman ratchets in a long while
[20:55:58] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-Ratchet-Set-1-4-3-8-1-2-Drive-sizes-New-Tools-/121727987057 the ones that look like that. garbage.
[20:56:24] <furrywolf> now, I do buy them... I have maybe ten of them. why? because when people want to borrow tools, I include one of them, because I don't care if it doesn't come back, which happens most of the time I loan people tools. heh.
[20:56:37] <Wolf_> lmao
[20:57:17] <furrywolf> I don't let people touch my s-k and easco ratchets. :P
[20:57:55] <furrywolf> overall I've been disappointed in snapon... not because they'd bad tools, but just because they're no better than most other brands, despite costing many times more.
[20:58:12] <furrywolf> except for my snapon mig welder. that IS a bad tool.
[20:58:52] <furrywolf> total utter shit. it's built like a budget battery charger. aluminum transformer, little button diodes with no heatsinking, and a windshield wiper motor for the wire drive.
[20:58:52] <Wolf_> lol, I wouldnt touch any welding gear with snapon/matco name on it
[20:59:07] <furrywolf> it's worse than harbor freight.
[20:59:38] <furrywolf> I never got it to weld right, stole the gun for a better-working welder, stuffed it under the house.
[20:59:40] <Wolf_> I have 2 miller welders and a hyperthem plasma
[21:00:20] <furrywolf> the snap-on looks like it'd built by Century... except they told century to skimp everywhere they could. my Century-branded welder is a much better tool. heavier transformer, proper diodes with heatsinks.
[21:00:26] <furrywolf> s/it'd/it's
[21:00:52] <furrywolf> and the gun fit my century welder...
[21:01:16] <Wolf_> well, start of my cnc shit is ordered
[21:03:03] <furrywolf> I have a miller Dialarc 250, a miller S-... something. 32? don't remember. the voltage-sensing wire feeder than sits on top of miller stick supplies, a miller 225A welder-generator, and a lincoln 225A welder-generator. the miller works great but is AC only, and the lincoln has an electrical issue whereby it welds great 99% of the time... except that 1% of the time is every few seconds where the output dies for just long enough to break your arc an
[21:05:22] <Wolf_> I have a miller dynasty 200dx that started acting up on me, output went to shit, someone I know messed with it and said he got it working again, but if not I have the full service manual from miller for it
[21:05:42] <furrywolf> I want a TIG welder... there's been a couple Syncrowave 180s on craigslist, but they've been expensive, and none of them have wanted to trade for one of my spare honda generators.
[21:06:58] <furrywolf> the guy at the yardsale I got the snapon from had a huge ancient miller TIG welder... looked about 50 years old, was about 6ft high... I passed on it. heh.
[21:07:18] <Wolf_> …love ordering stuff from china, eta Sept 2nd-Oct 9th
[21:07:41] <furrywolf> I'm sick of china.
[21:07:51] <furrywolf> I now actively try to avoid buying anything chinese.
[21:08:53] <Wolf_> yeah, would be nice, too bad with some of this stuff there isn’t many ways to go on it
[21:09:44] <Wolf_> $2.50 inductive proximity sensors… could get from mouser/digikey for $50 each
[21:10:23] <furrywolf> speaking of auctions, what should I bid on a Mori-Seiki Turning Center SL-1? looks like http://images.craigslist.org/00n0n_ccILlPGj9ds_600x450.jpg
[21:11:33] <Wolf_> all I see is more knobs and buttons then I know what to do with
[21:11:59] <furrywolf> linuxcnc fixes that. :P
[21:12:29] <Wolf_> haha, I’m still somewhat lost playing with that too
[21:12:45] <Wolf_> granted I’ve only ran latency test on it so far lol
[21:19:28] <furrywolf> for a while, you kept getting more knobs and buttons. then it all got replaced with software. same with, say, aircraft... some planes had so many knobs and buttons they needed a flight engineer just to work them... now it's all a glass cockpit.
[21:19:43] <Wolf_> yup
[21:19:58] <Wolf_> heck cars as well
[21:23:21] <furrywolf> meh. I'm pissed I didn't buy everything at the auction.
[21:23:30] <Wolf_> lol
[21:23:49] <furrywolf> I could have started my own hardware store for under $10k, shelves and all.
[21:24:08] <Wolf_> I really want some pallet racking
[21:24:26] <furrywolf> pallet racking sold for $20 an 8ft wide, 16ft high section.
[21:24:52] <furrywolf> basically scrap value
[21:24:54] <furrywolf> with shelves and all
[21:25:29] <Wolf_> damn, I need about 3 sections for my shop and about 4 for the other shop
[21:25:39] <furrywolf> should have come to the auction! heh
[21:25:41] <malcom2073> Dude, there was an auction last week
[21:25:51] <malcom2073> Literally thousands of pallet racks went for well below scrap price
[21:26:34] <malcom2073> I wish I had a fork lift, could've made a killing just turning it into scrap
[21:26:50] <furrywolf> malcom2073: I think the forklift at the auction today, a nice big one, only sold for a couple thousand.
[21:27:09] <furrywolf> I wasn't there for it, but someone said it went cheap.
[21:27:10] <malcom2073> Yeah there were a couple forklifts too, they usually go for decent money
[21:27:36] <Wolf_> heh, I got 2 forklifts for free a few years ago
[21:27:52] <furrywolf> malcom2073: if you want sad, scroll up and read what some of the stuff today sold for.
[21:27:54] <malcom2073> I want one, but the only way it's really make sense was if it was an offroad one, which *never* go up for auction it seems
[21:28:01] <malcom2073> furrywolf: No. I refuse :(
[21:28:12] <furrywolf> heh
[21:28:21] <malcom2073> That's ok, I'm going to wind up selling this southbend 9C for pocket change
[21:28:27] <Wolf_> yeah, mine arent off road type
[21:28:40] <furrywolf> the entire power tool accessory aisle (sawzall blades, multitool blades, drill bits, masonry bits, hole saws, extensions, etc, etc, etc, etc) sold for $400.
[21:28:48] <malcom2073> Heh
[21:28:52] <Wolf_> so one is stuck in the garage, other is sunk up the frame in the yard...
[21:29:01] <malcom2073> Haha
[21:29:14] <malcom2073> A buddy of mine has an old 1970's crane
[21:29:19] <malcom2073> It's amazing
[21:29:42] <furrywolf> the entire hardware aisle, the one with hinges, brackets, cable, chains, hooks, door hardware, etc, etc, etc, etc, sold for $200.
[21:29:52] <malcom2073> Auctions are amazing, and sad, all at once
[21:30:19] <furrywolf> I'm pissed because I didn't bid on any of it, because I have nowhere to store it until I need it.
[21:30:33] <furrywolf> Most of sold for probably well under a cent on the dollar.
[21:30:49] <furrywolf> even if I only used 1 in 100 items, I'd still come out ahead... if I could store them somewhere.
[21:30:55] <malcom2073> heh
[21:30:57] <malcom2073> I have storage, but no money
[21:31:11] <furrywolf> you didn't need much money. you could have bought the entire store for about $10k.
[21:31:13] <roycroft> you could have rented a storage unit and put it there and still come out ahead
[21:31:27] <roycroft> sell $50 worth of the stuff every month to pay the storage unit bill
[21:31:34] <furrywolf> heh
[21:31:38] <furrywolf> too late now.
[21:31:38] <malcom2073> Me and my dad are thinking about actually starting to buy stuff at auctions and resell
[21:31:43] <malcom2073> I'm pretty sure that's how secondhand shops get started
[21:31:52] <malcom2073> secondhand hardware/machine shop anyone?
[21:32:06] <furrywolf> heh
[21:32:15] <furrywolf> sure, if it's somewhere around here. :P
[21:32:20] <malcom2073> Or a hoarders episode
[21:32:29] <malcom2073> I'm an east coaster, sorry :P
[21:32:30] <Wolf_> or part stuff out on eBay
[21:32:46] <furrywolf> I couldn't believe how cheaply stuff was selling for... the entire blade/bit/etc aisle for $400 is simply stupid...
[21:32:59] <furrywolf> any one category of items on the shelves was worth several times that.
[21:33:05] <Wolf_> damn east coasters… oh wait
[21:33:35] <furrywolf> the entire wrench, socket, and screwdriver section sold for $175. and they only carried US-made.
[21:33:41] <malcom2073> heh
[21:34:06] <furrywolf> all Allen brand, which isn't a premium brand, but it is US-made, and pretty expensive.
[21:34:32] <furrywolf> the giant, LOCKED display case of carbide router bits sold for $50. some of the individual bits in it cost that.
[21:34:53] <furrywolf> 6ft high, 6ft wide, several of every bit...
[21:35:21] <Wolf_> hell the display case was probably worth 3x that
[21:35:44] <malcom2073> heh
[21:35:55] <malcom2073> Yeah auctions are great.
[21:36:05] <malcom2073> My lathe I got at auction
[21:37:11] <furrywolf> I bought two tubs of used tools (the store-use ones, $50 - I mostly wanted the set of cable cutters and crimpers), some paint (30 gallons for $60), the display of assorted 4ft lengths of allthread, small angle, unistrut, etc ($30), the wire cutting and measuring cart (the foot counter and the reel that collapses so you can slide the roll off, $10).
[21:37:56] <furrywolf> I mostly wanted the reel, but now I have a counter too. lol
[21:38:27] <furrywolf> the owner was there... he told me it took him half a day just to build the cart the wire stuff was on, never mind purchasing any of it.
[21:38:28] <malcom2073> Cool
[21:38:35] <malcom2073> Heh
[21:38:45] <furrywolf> now I can crimp ferrules on wire rope. :)
[21:39:15] <furrywolf> I didn't take a good look at the rest of the stuff in the tubs... was some dewalt 12v cordless tools and a bunch of hand tools. I just wanted the cable crimpers and cutters.
[21:41:12] <furrywolf> I got 19 gallons of neutral base eggshell acrylic, 11 gallons of ultra white eggshell acrylic, and 3 gallons of ultra-hiding white acrylic.
[21:41:21] <furrywolf> $2/gallon... and $2/gallon for another local hardware store to tint the 19 untinted gallons. heh.
[21:43:12] <fenn> lame
[21:43:44] <fenn> you picked the most perishable item in the hardware store
[21:43:52] <PetefromTn_> evening folks
[21:44:24] <furrywolf> fenn: except one of my relatives will soon be painting the interior of a 3000ft2 house.
[21:44:31] <PetefromTn_> anyone good with household wiring?
[21:44:44] <furrywolf> the metal display I got is similar to https://lotnut-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/item-image-variations%2Fc6%2F79%2F5f%2F22%2Fae%2Fb8%2F44%2F49%2F81%2F1c%2F18%2F1b%2Ff8%2F66%2Fe4%2F7f%2Fc6795f22-aeb8-4449-811c-181bf866e47f%2F1-thumbnail.jpg?Expires=1439713246&AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI527EG6KJ6SF5UNA&Signature=enC886jHdHx%2BFWQWIVlU28MTsqQ%3D
[21:44:50] <fenn> furrywolf you could have bought a house after selling all that stuff
[21:44:58] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: yes
[21:45:01] <Wolf_> I know some wiring
[21:45:07] <furrywolf> fenn: I know. I'm already pissed off. heh.
[21:45:10] <PetefromTn_> I got a probably real simple question
[21:45:24] <PetefromTn_> my wife and I are trying to renovate our home SLOWLY
[21:45:38] <furrywolf> it'll never be finished. :P
[21:45:48] <PetefromTn_> so today we finally got around to replacing all the light switches and outlets with the newer style
[21:45:59] <furrywolf> newer style? in what way?
[21:46:12] <Wolf_> decora?
[21:46:14] <PetefromTn_> ya know the wide paddle blade switches and the outlets you cannot stick things in if you are a kid/stupid
[21:46:29] <furrywolf> ah. I hate both of those.
[21:46:30] <PetefromTn_> anyways I have been replacing them all over the damn house
[21:46:43] <furrywolf> you're probably not surprised to learn this. :P
[21:46:48] <PetefromTn_> there is a three wide switch setup right next to the door to my garage
[21:46:53] <fenn> crotchetywolf
[21:46:59] <PetefromTn_> and two of the switches are wired one way
[21:47:12] <furrywolf> the sticky-outy switches are much easier to hit with a swipe of your hand, and those outlets are annoying when they work, and fucking annoying the other 99% of the time.
[21:47:12] <PetefromTn_> and the other one has a red/a white/ and a black
[21:47:24] <Wolf_> 3way switch wiring
[21:47:40] <fenn> aren't we supposed to be in a marvelous internet enabled future with no light switches
[21:47:47] <PetefromTn_> the switch itself just says 15 amp 120v like the rest of them
[21:47:51] <Wolf_> its just a dp/st
[21:48:19] <PetefromTn_> is it a diffferent type of switch which means I am screwed or is the red wire a ground?
[21:48:34] <furrywolf> you either have a multiwire branch circuit, or multiway switching, with two switches controlling one light.
[21:48:37] <furrywolf> red is never a ground. red is hot.
[21:48:47] <Wolf_> should be a 3way switch
[21:48:47] <furrywolf> ground is only green or bare.
[21:48:51] <PetefromTn_> I thought black or white was hot
[21:48:59] <furrywolf> black is hot
[21:49:01] <furrywolf> white is neutral
[21:49:07] <furrywolf> red is second hot, blue is third hot...
[21:49:24] <PetefromTn_> OK so I am screwed then
[21:49:28] <Wolf_> and the decora type 3 way have different screw position
[21:49:29] <PetefromTn_> I need another type of switch
[21:49:35] <furrywolf> is there a second switch that controlls the same light as the switch in question?
[21:50:13] <PetefromTn_> one switch controls the shop lights out in the garage shop, the second switch controls the ceiling fan/light above our kitchen table, the last switch controls the outlets in the room
[21:50:47] <furrywolf> you also sometimes see creative wiring where two switches are in the same romex run, using the second hot.
[21:50:47] <Wolf_> eh, which one has the 3 wires?
[21:51:01] <furrywolf> do the switches have 2 terminals or 3 terminals?
[21:51:06] <PetefromTn_> the black is kinda daisy chained thru all 3 switches
[21:51:18] <PetefromTn_> that last one has the three wires
[21:51:26] <PetefromTn_> black/white/red...
[21:51:35] <PetefromTn_> hang on I'll take a pic if it will help
[21:51:36] <furrywolf> ok, so it's a 3-way switch. which set of lights is it?
[21:51:39] <furrywolf> yes
[21:52:04] <furrywolf> and, again, is there a second switch that controls the same lights as the switch in question?
[21:52:15] <furrywolf> say, on the other side of the room, or by another door.
[21:52:57] <PetefromTn_> yes there is actually
[21:53:01] <Wolf_> ^ sounds like a 14/3 using one of the conductors as the traveler wire
[21:53:34] <furrywolf> ok, so you have a standard three-way-switch setup.
[21:53:45] <Wolf_> http://www.how-to-wire-it.com/images/3-way-power-at-light2.jpg
[21:53:45] <furrywolf> the other switch will also have three terminals and two hots going to it
[21:54:19] <furrywolf> this just means you need to spend $2.49 for your replacement switch instead of $0.49. (or, since you're using the ugly, harder-to-use decora switches, $6.49 instead of $2.49).
[21:54:36] <Wolf_> or http://www.blurtit.com/var/question/q/q4/q46/q461/q4617/q461762_284108_3_way_wiring_1.jpg
[21:55:06] <Wolf_> there is a 3rd way
[21:55:28] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/B1RWBiu.jpg
[21:55:45] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/GifluXn.jpg
[21:55:47] <furrywolf> the house I'm working on with someone has three switches for one light... one is a 4-terminal switch that swaps the wires. :)
[21:55:53] <PetefromTn_> forgive the wall paint we are redoing stuff
[21:56:35] <PetefromTn_> OK so we need a different switch is all...
[21:56:49] <furrywolf> yeah, what you have is a standard three-way switch setup, probably closer to the first image Wolf_ pasted.
[21:56:59] <Wolf_> wtf, where does the black from the wire go...
[21:57:02] <PetefromTn_> I guess I will just screw the new ones in, install the plate, and leave the old one there until I can get another one..
[21:57:10] <Wolf_> from teh 14/3
[21:57:18] <furrywolf> note that the white wire there is NOT NEUTRAL. it should have been wrapped with black electrical tape to mark it as a hot. bad electrician.
[21:57:51] <zeeshan> don't cut the red wire
[21:57:54] <zeeshan> kaboom
[21:57:59] <PetefromTn_> :D
[21:58:03] <fenn> cut the red wire
[21:58:08] <fenn> but only after cutting the blue wire
[21:58:27] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: what should I bid on a Mori-Seiki Turning Center SL-1? looks like http://images.craigslist.org/00n0n_ccILlPGj9ds_600x450.jpg
[21:58:35] <PetefromTn_> OKay so like I said just gotta get a 3 way switch for these particular outlets
[21:58:45] <zeeshan> $1500
[21:58:50] <zeeshan> :P
[21:58:52] <PetefromTn_> woah that one looks clean
[21:59:02] <zeeshan> im telling you recession is here
[21:59:09] <zeeshan> even in your area where you have no machines
[21:59:17] <zeeshan> youre getting maching ads
[21:59:19] <zeeshan> machine
[21:59:34] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: yes, look for a 3-way switch in the style you like.
[21:59:42] <t12> the four horsemen of the metalocalypse
[21:59:52] <furrywolf> the other switch that controls the same light will also need a 3-way switch.
[22:00:15] <fenn> $4444.44
[22:00:20] <pcw_home> the Mori Seiki Looks old but almost unused
[22:00:22] <furrywolf> be warned you have some non-standard wiring layout there, if you go to do any actual additions to the wiring. also, while you're at it, tape that white wire in black tape.
[22:00:39] <furrywolf> pcw_home: it's from the local college. probably crashed about once every five minutes.
[22:00:44] <Wolf_> or meter it out
[22:01:15] <fenn> furrywolf: have you inspected it?
[22:01:30] <furrywolf> since they're using the white as a hot, but also running the black to other switches, they're doing something screwy.
[22:01:40] <furrywolf> fenn: no. inspection is at the same time as bidding, and you only get 3 hours.
[22:02:01] <fenn> zeeshan: it's a "jobless recovery" - welcome to the glorious and enduring robot revolution
[22:02:14] <zeeshan> skynet active
[22:03:06] <fenn> furrywolf: well make sure to bring measurement stuff and actually measure the straightness squareness etc
[22:03:10] <furrywolf> note that screwy doesn't mean broken nor unsafe, just that trying to figure out what the hell the electrician did might be fun.
[22:03:22] <furrywolf> I have no stuff that can do that.
[22:03:44] <fenn> you just passed up a pile of tools at the hardware store and you have no measuring equipment?
[22:03:56] <Wolf_> I bet the load wire for that 3way is in the back of that box… black on the switch is hot, red/white as travelers for the 3way, black is on the common pole on the other end
[22:04:15] <furrywolf> fenn: they don't sell measuring equipment like that at hardware stores. heh.
[22:04:43] <fenn> the goal here is to make sure the machine isn't totally screwed, not to fine tune it
[22:04:56] <furrywolf> Wolf_: except they're also running the black to other switches which leave in other cables, meaning they're stringing just the neutral between the other circuits? :)
[22:05:26] <Wolf_> naa, tie all the neutrals together in wire nut
[22:05:54] <furrywolf> for now, the best and easiest thing to do is just put in a new switch wired the exact same way as the old switch. :P
[22:06:03] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tls/5138692718.html
[22:06:34] <zeeshan> lol
[22:06:36] <zeeshan> sealed bid
[22:06:39] <zeeshan> hate that nonsense
[22:06:42] <Wolf_> ^ note that them new fancy switches have the common screw in a different location, read the inside of the box
[22:06:45] <zeeshan> but it is the best way to get most money for your stuff
[22:06:45] <furrywolf> yes.
[22:06:56] <furrywolf> zeeshan: did you see above about the auction I went to today?
[22:07:01] <zeeshan> yes
[22:07:09] * furrywolf is annoyed
[22:08:52] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: have you confirmed you actually like the decora switches? I rather dislike them, as do most people. that's why they're a specialty item and cost several times more...
[22:09:30] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ what are you rewiring?
[22:09:36] <furrywolf> his house.
[22:09:44] <Tom_itx> the whole thing?
[22:09:45] <furrywolf> and he's just making the switches and outlets shinier.
[22:10:34] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i just loaded that demo... it is VERY cool
[22:10:38] <Wolf_> PetefromTn_: make a mental note of that 3way switch or swap out the other end at the same time so you don’t zap yourself later. This is what the wiring is but they have the source black and feed swapped http://www.easy-do-it-yourself-home-improvements.com/images/Large-3-way-switch-9.jpg
[22:11:03] <Wolf_> s/feed/load...
[22:11:08] <XXCoder> whee finally home
[22:11:54] <XXCoder> whew
[22:12:07] <XXCoder> helped my sis in law's sis pull up rugs and stuff
[22:13:43] <furrywolf> I'd like the turning center, the harrison lathe, the ct40 toolholders (I think they fit my brown&sharpe mill), maybe the injection molding machine if it's really really cheap... anything else there I should get? :P
[22:14:26] <XXCoder> get your very good friend Rolf an awesome 4'x8' cnc router lol
[22:14:40] <furrywolf> ?
[22:14:58] <XXCoder> heh kidding, Rolf is me :P
[22:15:24] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tls/5138692718.html doesn't mention a router. heh.
[22:17:03] <XXCoder> ah didnt see it lol
[22:17:09] <XXCoder> just arrived and saw you say that lol
[22:18:27] <furrywolf> the guy I got my mill from a few days ago had a 4x8 router... said he got it from china for $7500.
[22:18:41] <furrywolf> vacuum table and everything.
[22:18:41] <XXCoder> yah saw some like that
[22:18:51] <XXCoder> wonder if its 4'x8' o 4'x8' work space.
[22:19:34] <furrywolf> actual work space looked nice and roomy, probably at least several inches spare on all sides.
[22:19:49] <PetefromTn_> LOL thanks guys yeah we are just trying to pretty up the place
[22:20:06] <PetefromTn_> I DO indeed like the big wide switches they look much more modern I think
[22:20:20] <XXCoder> not bad fur. inches for clamps.
[22:20:21] <PetefromTn_> basically every house we have been in besides this one has them now
[22:20:25] <Wolf_> They do look better IMO
[22:20:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah they sure do
[22:20:54] <furrywolf> I don't care about looking. I care about WORKING. :P
[22:20:58] <PetefromTn_> they also sell all the cool dimmers and LED ones now so switching will be easier if we want to get fancy
[22:21:07] <furrywolf> much easier to get the normal style with a swipe of your hand
[22:21:08] <PetefromTn_> never had any problems from them before
[22:21:23] <PetefromTn_> I kinda like these new outlets too
[22:21:29] <Wolf_> yeah, I’m a fan of lutron digital dimmers
[22:21:45] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: wait until you try plugging in anything with a slightly tweaked plug.
[22:21:46] <PetefromTn_> they have some sorta clear plastic covering the hot holes so kids can't stick stuff in them
[22:21:59] <furrywolf> you know, anything that's been stepped on at any point in its life, or plugged in more than 50 times.
[22:22:30] <furrywolf> or, once you've plugged something into them 50 times, and the mechanism is worn.
[22:22:33] <Wolf_> yup, and the cheap Chinese 2 prong plugs bend trying to put the TR plates out of the way
[22:22:40] <furrywolf> since the mechanism is entirely unlubricated plastic on plastic.
[22:23:01] <Wolf_> put/push man I can’t type tonight
[22:23:30] <furrywolf> anyway, I thought your kids needed graphing calculators. why do you need tamper-resistant outlets? :P
[22:24:20] <PetefromTn_> apparenlty it is code now here
[22:24:44] <PetefromTn_> DAMN I just checked and just in the downstairs I will be needing like half a dozen of those 3 way switches jeez
[22:24:48] <furrywolf> the way they work is they only open with simultaneous pressure on both covers... if the plug isn't perfectly straight, you put it in slightly crooked, or the mechanism is slightly worn... no plugging.
[22:24:50] <PetefromTn_> sucks the big patootie
[22:25:28] <PetefromTn_> Oh well I hear ya man but it makes the wifey happy so it's all good ;)
[22:25:28] <furrywolf> the idea being most kids with forks don't insert two forks at the same time
[22:25:53] <PetefromTn_> just dumped a bunch of cash at Home despot
[22:26:09] <PetefromTn_> trying to fix stuff up here and there gets expensive
[22:26:16] <PetefromTn_> even stupid little stuff
[22:26:33] <furrywolf> I dumped a small amount of cash today. I really, really should have spent more. I'm annoyed.
[22:26:51] <PetefromTn_> like our upstairs bathroom sink the little nuts that hold down the faucet to the sink base cracked and I had to get new plastic shitty ones to replace em LOL
[22:27:14] <XXCoder> mill a titanium ones
[22:27:19] <XXCoder> they'll last forever lol
[22:27:24] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-TG-600PH-WH-Toggler-Preset-Dimmer/dp/B00004WGXR/ref=sr_1_2?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1439694200&sr=1-2&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A6240343011 are reasonably un-annoying as dimmers go, but I don't have any dimmers at all, which is even less annoying.
[22:27:28] <PetefromTn_> Got some new curtain rods some new toilet seats etc. etc. etc...
[22:27:53] <PetefromTn_> titanium ones would cost more than the whole sink just in materials hehe
[22:28:09] <XXCoder> lol
[22:28:35] <XXCoder> seriously though maybe some scrap metal that dont rust
[22:28:48] <furrywolf> I got two tubs of used tools (including a pair of cable cutters and crimpers for wire rope), 33 gallons of paint, a display of 4ft lengths of allthread, angle, unistrut, etc, and a wire counter and reel that collapses so you can pull the roll off the reel.
[22:30:12] <PetefromTn_> I thought you were broke and couldn't work LOL
[22:30:31] <furrywolf> I spent very little. :)
[22:30:41] <PetefromTn_> well that's always a plus
[22:30:42] <furrywolf> $50 for the tools, $66 for the paint, $30 for the entire display of metal, and $10 for the counter and reel.
[22:30:53] <PetefromTn_> gonna resell it?
[22:31:02] <furrywolf> no
[22:31:18] <furrywolf> if I was going to resell it, I would have bought everything else. :(
[22:31:35] <furrywolf> they auctioned off the inventory of a local hardware store that closed. everything went dirt cheap.
[22:31:38] <PetefromTn_> I can't believe I didn't think of the other types of switches I would need. what a dolt
[22:31:58] <XXCoder> furrywolf: any local hardware store left?
[22:33:08] <furrywolf> the most annoying was the entire power tool accessory aisle (bits, blades, etc) went for $400, the entire hardware aisle (hinges, locks, brackets, cable, chain, hooks, pulleys, rollers, latches, etc) for $200, the entire trim and molding room for $100, the entire fastener aisle $1250,...
[22:33:14] <furrywolf> XXCoder: only one
[22:33:27] <furrywolf> everything else left is a chain
[22:34:01] <XXCoder> too bad
[22:34:29] <XXCoder> here so far I know its all chains
[22:34:31] <XXCoder> like lowes
[22:34:37] <furrywolf> I heard they sold the entire wall of pine and redwood for $125....
[22:35:09] <furrywolf> someone told me they sold the brand new 2015 isuzu diesel 16ft flatbed delivery truck for $9k.
[22:35:40] <furrywolf> the owner was looking really glum towards the end of it.
[22:35:41] <XXCoder> someone got lucky
[22:36:20] <furrywolf> I could have bought more paint, but how much paint did I need? most of the paint went unsold.
[22:37:18] <furrywolf> I only bought the eggshell acrylic in neutral base and white, because that's what we need for a house I'm working on... they had many hundreds of gallons of flat, satin, and semigloss that didn't sell. auctioneer couldn't get $1/gal and went on to the next section.
[22:38:04] <furrywolf> got 33 gallons at $2/gal.
[22:42:46] <XXCoder> man
[22:42:50] <XXCoder> wish i was there
[22:42:54] <XXCoder> I'd bought bunch wood
[22:43:11] <XXCoder> but same time auctions dont work for deaf, if most people is hearing
[22:43:44] <fenn> silent auction
[22:48:19] <XXCoder> deaf auction is anything but quiet
[22:48:27] <XXCoder> just much less words for hearing to hear
[23:44:52] <furrywolf> grrr. I want to go to bed, but someone down the road is having a seriously loud party.
[23:45:07] <Tom_itx> join em
[23:45:15] <XXCoder> sleep with noise cancelling headgear
[23:45:22] <XXCoder> ?
[23:45:27] * furrywolf doesn't like parties
[23:45:33] <furrywolf> and sleeping on headphones sounds painful
[23:45:37] <XXCoder> I have this head warmer that covers ears, I wonder if it would help mute
[23:46:17] <furrywolf> if you don't want to join 'em, there's always beating 'em... this 3/4" drive proto ratchet I just bought would make a very nice skull crusher.
[23:46:26] <XXCoder> why?
[23:46:31] <XXCoder> just run one of your mills
[23:46:42] <XXCoder> cut using old tool on scrap and cut it badly
[23:46:43] <XXCoder> loud.
[23:47:07] <furrywolf> no mills here.
[23:47:12] <XXCoder> any cnc really
[23:47:24] <furrywolf> sherline and shoptask are at storage unit, brown and sharpe is at relative's.
[23:48:54] <furrywolf> no cnc here
[23:49:08] <Tom_itx> sad thing that is
[23:49:31] <XXCoder> sad
[23:50:46] <furrywolf> the shoptask is ready to make chips in the storage unit. heh.
[23:53:04] <furrywolf> blah. I got two tools at a yard sale where googling the brands finds spam sites before actual sites. google really needs to work on filtering out spam sites.
[23:53:24] <XXCoder> spam is yummy
[23:53:36] <XXCoder> not really, I dont like it either
[23:54:10] <Wolf_> spam sites are annoying as hell, kept hitting them looking for ball screw conversions
[23:54:33] <furrywolf> a jo-line tools torque wrench and a torque controls inc torque wrench, both 1/4" drive. was $10 for the pair. I plan to return my piece of crap harbor freight one for more than $10 and use these now. heh.
[23:54:33] <XXCoder> ball screw conversions?
[23:54:46] <XXCoder> nice
[23:54:55] <Wolf_> yeah, for my overkill X1 conversion lol
[23:55:47] <furrywolf> if you're bored, you can convert my brown&sharpe. :P
[23:56:00] <Wolf_> send it over :P
[23:56:10] <Wolf_> might not get it back for a while
[23:56:25] <XXCoder> like 10 years? seems reasonable short time to me
[23:56:57] <furrywolf> lol
[23:57:03] <furrywolf> it weighs 4000lbs. sending it is hard. :)
[23:57:14] <Wolf_> uship
[23:58:17] <Wolf_> I had a 3500lbs hook lift truck body shipped from ohio to maryland for $400