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[00:02:28] <XXCoder> later
[00:21:07] <just_stack-light> hi
[00:23:06] <XXCoder> hey
[00:24:15] <just_stack-light> hi XXCoder
[00:24:28] <XXCoder> I worked on my cnc a bit
[00:24:34] <XXCoder> but ran into problems bah lol
[00:24:35] <just_stack-light> cool!
[00:25:02] <just_stack-light> what kind of poblem?
[00:25:25] <XXCoder> for one, 4 bolts didnt fit
[00:25:36] <XXCoder> then I could not find wire clamps so I could not wire machine
[00:25:43] <XXCoder> in least theres some progress lol
[00:26:49] <just_stack-light> try to do other things..
[00:27:18] <just_stack-light> now I need to finish the controller
[00:27:24] <XXCoder> nah not much left I can do
[00:27:40] <XXCoder> I don't want to connect spindle till everything else is done
[00:27:45] <XXCoder> and that is basically it
[00:27:58] <just_stack-light> why?
[00:28:13] <XXCoder> machine is pretty close to complete
[00:28:24] <just_stack-light> you know how to drive 1A 5V?
[00:28:44] <XXCoder> no
[00:28:57] <just_stack-light> I wish I could help you.
[00:30:27] <just_stack-light> XXCoder: you have some pics from the process?
[00:30:27] <XXCoder> np, its strightforward problems and general lazyness
[00:31:06] <XXCoder> not really but lemme upload a pic
[00:31:38] <just_stack-light> OK
[00:31:51] <just_stack-light> I will take a pic of the stak
[00:33:39] <XXCoder> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53432577/cnc.jpg
[00:34:01] <XXCoder> Y motor is now installed
[00:34:08] <XXCoder> but basically it
[00:34:20] <just_stack-light> really nice
[00:34:31] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:37:29] <just_stack-light> I'm almost bought the 60-40 from ebay
[00:37:55] <zeeshan> nice
[00:37:56] <zeeshan> :D
[00:38:34] <XXCoder> 60-40?
[00:39:13] <just_stack-light> why it's soo commplicates to sent image
[00:39:45] <XXCoder> usually use dropbox myself
[00:39:48] <XXCoder> simple
[00:47:16] <just_stack-light> http://i.imgur.com/Czl0BGk.png
[00:47:19] <just_stack-light> XXCoder:
[00:47:26] <XXCoder> looking
[00:47:31] <zeeshan> just_stack-light: good job!
[00:47:34] <zeeshan> looks good
[00:47:36] <XXCoder> that is awesome.
[00:48:14] <zeeshan> just_stack-light: i have more respect for you now :p
[00:48:26] <just_stack-light> the yellow look buch brighter in the camera..
[00:48:26] <zeeshan> even though you do some weird modifications
[00:48:32] <zeeshan> you get the project done
[00:48:38] <zeeshan> :-)
[00:48:57] <just_stack-light> but in the reality they look even
[00:49:03] <just_stack-light> thanks
[00:49:15] <just_stack-light> but I need to work on the controller..
[00:49:47] <just_stack-light> the mount is 2" aluminum angels that drilld and bore to fit the connectors
[00:50:05] <just_stack-light> and tham brushed,
[00:50:08] <just_stack-light> than*
[00:51:56] <just_stack-light> zeeshan: It's not weird modification, I'm always forget it ON and go to sleep, then in the morning the motors hooot
[00:52:34] <XXCoder> ahh
[00:53:53] <just_stack-light> or I need to change tool but the machine soo quite that I'm not know about it..
[00:54:21] <XXCoder> isnt quietness sign that something need to be done?
[00:55:08] <zeeshan> just_stack-light: 1 led could tell you the machine is on :-)
[00:55:38] <XXCoder> why just one
[00:55:51] <just_stack-light> if you can put 180...
[00:55:57] <zeeshan> hehe
[00:56:06] <zeeshan> everyone has different taste
[00:56:09] <XXCoder> 180 boxes of 1,000 led yes
[00:56:11] <zeeshan> so i can't argue with you
[00:56:12] <XXCoder> lol
[00:58:48] <just_stack-light> now I need to drive tham some how..
[00:58:54] <just_stack-light> them*
[01:01:21] <just_stack-light> some know about way to drive 1A 5V?
[01:12:06] <archivist> rocket science, a 5 v power supply, some logic and as many darlington drivers as needed
[01:12:28] <zeeshan> archivist: do you have anything by 'taft pierce'
[01:14:16] <archivist> no but could it be an article in some other doc not catalogued?
[01:14:32] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=pierce
[01:15:03] <zeeshan> http://www.subtool.com/tp/9205_taft-peirce_standard_bench_centers.html
[01:15:07] <zeeshan> was drooling at this
[01:16:52] <archivist> I do have some bench centres though, came to me very rusty
[01:17:00] <just_pink> why you need it at home???????
[01:17:23] <archivist> so never given the base indoor space yet
[01:17:55] <zeeshan> just_pink: inspection of rotating assemblies
[01:18:05] <just_pink> at home.....
[01:18:26] <zeeshan> just_pink: i rebuild engines ocasionally
[01:18:39] <archivist> mine is so damned heavy
[01:18:40] <zeeshan> and do side work from home
[01:18:45] <zeeshan> archivist: prolly 200lb?
[01:19:00] <archivist> lots
[01:19:27] <archivist> even the two moving parts are not light
[01:21:40] <toastydeath> bench centers are pretty necessary for inspecting damn near anything that's ground
[01:21:54] <toastydeath> or rather that was to just_pink
[01:22:21] <archivist> or for checking built up motor crankshafts
[01:22:43] <toastydeath> hahaha
[01:23:32] <archivist> you never seen them? in lots of motorcycles
[01:23:48] <toastydeath> sure i have
[01:24:04] <toastydeath> just didn't occur to me that you'd check such a thing on bench centers
[01:24:20] <just_pink> archivist: I'm not there yet
[01:25:13] <archivist> toastydeath, there used to be a lower cost version for bike shops
[01:26:48] <just_pink> idea..lathe with 2 live stoks
[01:27:16] <toastydeath> just_pink: already exists.
[01:28:47] <just_pink> what is the benefit of the dedicated one?
[01:28:55] <toastydeath> which dedicated one
[01:30:24] <just_pink> the inspection table
[01:30:36] <toastydeath> more accurate than a lathe
[01:30:49] <toastydeath> by an order of magnitude or more
[01:31:02] <toastydeath> also, you generally need to check parts on a different machine than you created them on
[01:31:20] <toastydeath> because if the machine has a taper in it, you can't pick that up by checking that on the same machine
[01:34:01] <archivist> just been out in the garden, mine were made by Harrison, a good maker
[01:34:22] <archivist> I have kept the heads indoors :)
[01:34:38] <toastydeath> haha, a good move
[01:35:21] <just_pink> OK i see..
[01:35:26] <archivist> I stopped it going to scrap many years ago, so it has cost me little
[01:37:37] <archivist> from a google images search looks like a few lathe makers made them, mine has a third head for a dti
[01:37:40] <toastydeath> just_pink: most places do not need centers because they don't do anything abusrd with round shit
[01:37:52] <toastydeath> centers are used almost exclusively to check parts that come off a cylindrical grinder
[01:37:58] <archivist> not
[01:38:00] <toastydeath> plus (as with the crankshaft archivist mentioned)
[01:38:05] <toastydeath> some odds and ends
[01:38:08] <archivist> also used for cranks!
[01:38:30] <toastydeath> :D I'd put money down that 99% of the bench centers out there do not check crankshafts
[01:38:43] <archivist> and any shaft straightening service
[01:39:15] <toastydeath> i see most places doing that using standard vee blocks
[01:39:32] <toastydeath> or saw, rather
[01:39:39] <just_pink> vee??
[01:39:44] <just_pink> V?
[01:40:00] <toastydeath> http://www.subtool.com/st/imgs/VB-336-MCI%20Cast%20Iron%20V-Blocks.jpg
[01:40:12] <toastydeath> you'll see it both ways, but yes
[01:41:40] <just_pink> toastydeath: yes, just V block..
[01:41:51] <just_pink> but you say vee..
[01:43:16] <toastydeath> you will see it both ways depending on the mfg/catalog
[01:44:31] <just_pink> i see,,
[01:46:29] <XXCoder> wow
[01:46:38] <XXCoder> vee block at amazon is pretty high price
[01:47:02] <just_pink> now try v
[01:47:04] <XXCoder> magnetic vee block
[01:47:05] <XXCoder> dang!
[01:47:09] <XXCoder> nice idea
[01:47:23] <XXCoder> I had problems with round ferragic metal before lol
[01:47:37] <XXCoder> wont do much for plastics and alum though lol
[01:47:39] <toastydeath> mag blocks are not themselves magnetized
[01:47:49] <XXCoder> it is
[01:47:55] <toastydeath> link
[01:47:59] <XXCoder> comes with switch to change strength. a second
[01:48:09] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/VERTEX-MAGNETIC-V-BLOCK-SWITCH-3402-0997/dp/B00N40XDES/ref=sr_1_30?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1439101420&sr=1-30'
[01:48:11] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/VERTEX-MAGNETIC-V-BLOCK-SWITCH-3402-0997/dp/B00N40XDES/ref=sr_1_30?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1439101420&sr=1-30
[01:48:20] <just_pink> the price depends on the verbose level of the block
[01:48:23] <toastydeath> hahaha
[01:48:32] <just_pink> (linux)
[01:48:47] <toastydeath> i have honestly never seen a mag block that was actually a mag chuck interally
[01:49:06] <XXCoder> yeah me either, must be new.
[01:49:26] <toastydeath> i wouldn't risk it personally but cool to know it's a thing
[01:49:42] <XXCoder> too expensive for pretty specialist thing
[01:49:56] <XXCoder> if it was hella cheap like $10 sure why not buy and see lol
[01:50:20] <toastydeath> nah, good patched pairs are expensive
[01:50:28] <toastydeath> *matched
[01:50:54] <just_pink> how the magnietic switch work???
[01:51:00] <just_pink> magnetic*
[01:51:23] <XXCoder> I guess it aligns and de-aligns magnets
[01:51:29] <XXCoder> when aligned it is lot stronger
[01:51:30] <toastydeath> so there's a sandwich of magnetic plates like S-N-S-N-S
[01:51:54] <XXCoder> there is no such thing as magnetic sheild. not one that blocks everything
[01:51:55] <toastydeath> then, on top of that, you have a a bunch of plates, ferromagnetic and not
[01:52:24] <toastydeath> that go FNFNFN and so on
[01:52:34] <toastydeath> the switch slides the magnet stack under those plates
[01:53:05] <toastydeath> if the magnetic poles are sitting under the nonmagnetic material, the flux stays pretty much inside the chuck
[01:53:08] <just_pink> I need to see a drwing
[01:53:11] <XXCoder> GEEEEEZ
http://www.amazon.com/ALUMINUM-CAST-MAGNETIC-V-BLOCK-INCH/dp/B00DVTNJTG/ref=sr_1_90?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1439101803&sr=1-90
[01:53:40] <XXCoder> some leakage but definitely a lot weaker in "off" mode.
[01:53:50] <XXCoder> whoever designed it is or was pretty darn smart
[01:54:15] <toastydeath> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG-01vY36W0
[01:54:23] <toastydeath> that's a whole video on how mag chucks are built
[01:54:51] <XXCoder> autocaptions is meh
[01:55:00] <XXCoder> I doubt one guy actually said cock
[01:55:54] <toastydeath> 250 for a set of anything is sort of baseline, shop-grade price
[01:56:08] <toastydeath> 123 blocks start at like 125 for basic shop use
[01:56:17] <toastydeath> (this is for actual shop use, mind)
[01:56:50] <toastydeath> for something like Moore blocks/metrology grade, the price is obvs much higher
[01:57:06] <XXCoder> yeah captions is too random to be useful
[01:57:17] <XXCoder> don't call me salt anymore
[01:57:19] <XXCoder> okay.
[01:57:54] <XXCoder> "exactly hatch sex that good"
[01:58:03] <XXCoder> uh thanks for that tip? LOL
[01:58:37] <toastydeath> gotta have top quality hatch sex
[01:58:40] <toastydeath> also goodnight
[01:58:46] <XXCoder> night toastydeath
[02:03:35] <XXCoder> just_pink:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_base
[02:03:39] <XXCoder> interesting
[02:04:31] <just_pink> cool!
[02:04:36] <just_pink> very nice!
[02:06:32] <archivist> an essential tool
[02:06:41] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JbyxIp4xEs
[02:07:18] <XXCoder> not sure if it will be type that can be turned "off".
[02:09:05] <Deejay> moin
[02:09:48] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTbWAu0k-o
[02:12:28] <Deejay> hi just_pink
[02:13:22] <just_pink> hi
[02:16:40] <Deejay> nice surface grinder
[02:18:55] <just_pink> Deejay:
http://i.imgur.com/Czl0BGk.png
[02:19:13] <Deejay> wow
[02:19:14] <Deejay> nice
[02:22:01] <Deejay> what do the lights show? if the machine is running? different speeds? or just for fun?
[02:22:14] <XXCoder> machine status lights
[02:22:20] <just_pink> Deejay: the mount is 2" aluminum angels that drilld and bore to fit the connectors and then brushed,
[02:24:39] <Deejay> hi XXCoder
[02:28:31] <LatheBuilder2> speaking of how mag chucks work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG-01vY36W0
[02:28:31] <XXCoder> just_pink: interesting video so far
[02:28:33] <LatheBuilder2> g'nite
[02:32:01] <just_pink> http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-12-Surface-Grinder-w-Stand/G5963
[02:32:17] <just_pink> what do you think?
[02:33:11] <XXCoder> good question, never used a grinder lol I was spposed to do that at internship but ended up hired at job before that
[02:33:46] * archivist wants one with Jones & Shipman on the badge
[02:34:59] <XXCoder> autocaptions on that video wasnt too bad till this one. "remember always live highly nationally never sex life so we've got the scale"
[02:35:06] <XXCoder> what? LOL
[02:35:23] <XXCoder> autocaptions lol
[02:35:34] <archivist> old used costs way more than the grizzly
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Surface-grinder-Jones-Shipman-540-Surface-grinder-/171408673560
[02:42:32] <just_pink> archivist: you know about small surface grinder?
[02:45:04] <just_pink> I need to make sockets organizer
[03:08:58] <archivist> those two statements do not seem connected
[03:09:52] <archivist> I was outside removing vegetation from around the bench centres
[03:18:47] <archivist> hmm I could make the bench centre take up less space by making a vertical frame like
http://2.imimg.com/data2/FV/SV/MY-162814/vertical-bench-centre-500x500.jpg
[03:53:49] <just_pink> how much material I can remove each pass with 3/8" end mill 2 flute, on wood partical borad 1000 rpm
[03:54:34] <just_pink> archivist: zeeshan Deejay XXCoder toastydeath ??
[03:56:35] <just_pink> 1mm? pass is too much?
[03:57:00] <XXCoder> ther is folumbias to dermine that but I dont know it
[03:58:55] <archivist> 1000 rpm is too slow for wood, experiment
[04:00:33] <archivist> chip board or MDF?
[04:03:31] <XXCoder> yeah wood tend to need high rpm
[04:03:43] <just_pink> chip beard
[04:03:48] <XXCoder> good thing my cnc router has 27000 rpm max. too bad its also min
[04:03:49] <just_pink> board*
[04:04:01] <archivist> my beard is not chipped
[04:04:35] <just_pink> archivist:
http://www.riobravohardwoods.com/images/hardwood/particle_board/particleboard2.jpg
[04:04:51] <archivist> chipboard
[04:05:09] <just_pink> ok..
[04:05:59] <just_pink> how much to take each pass?
[04:06:03] <just_pink> 5mm?
[04:06:08] <just_pink> 1mm?
[04:06:45] <archivist> dunno, experiment
[04:06:59] <archivist> start with 5mm
[04:07:23] <XXCoder> look for burn marks too, that would mean ipm is too low. archivist correct?
[04:07:48] <archivist> worn tool
[04:07:58] <archivist> not cutting
[04:08:17] <just_pink> I will start with 0.7 mm
[04:08:23] <archivist> it wears and starts rubbing
[04:08:28] <XXCoder> ok
[04:08:31] <archivist> start with 5mm!
[04:08:36] <archivist> its wood
[04:08:56] <archivist> what endmill?
[04:08:58] <just_pink> according to hsm express it's going to take 2 hours
[04:09:42] <archivist> bolt a router on and do it properly
[04:09:46] <just_pink> but if I will brake the end mill It's very complicates to weld it back..
[04:11:37] <just_pink> archivist: XXCoder
http://i.imgur.com/YSzSwog.png
[04:12:02] <XXCoder> hole board
[04:12:45] <just_pink> sockets organizer
[04:12:48] <just_pink> XXCoder: ^
[04:13:01] <XXCoder> cool
[04:13:52] <just_pink> 4:50...
[04:13:54] <just_pink> am
[04:14:27] <XXCoder> 1 am here
[04:14:39] <XXCoder> heh that almost looks like I am here
[04:15:14] <just_pink> to start the machine.. or not to start?
[04:15:19] <just_pink> hehe
[04:16:48] <just_pink> if shakespeare was run a cnc in 4 AM..
[04:17:19] <XXCoder> I wonder what various artists would do if they was introduced to cnc machine
[04:17:35] <XXCoder> (besides shotuing demon machine or something)
[04:18:28] <just_pink> picasso use cnc with backlash..
[04:19:45] <just_pink> van gogh didn't check the chacbox "keep tool down" in hsm..
[04:21:44] <just_pink> without backlash compensation -
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/fe/b8/0afeb818a3d50b3bf7524b720191d666.jpg
[04:21:59] <XXCoder> lol
[04:22:19] <Deejay> hrhr
[04:25:50] <just_pink> CNC comedy club
[04:26:07] <XXCoder> talking about cnc stuff
[04:26:28] <XXCoder> I just read one article, one lady was using cnc to make vinyl records
[04:26:38] <XXCoder> laser
[04:26:53] <just_pink> what? who?
[04:27:14] <just_pink> laser? vinyl?
[04:27:33] <XXCoder> yeah making vinyl records using laser
[04:29:00] <just_pink> I like RAW servo music.
[04:29:30] <just_pink> direct from the music instrument.
[04:31:16] <just_pink> XXCoder: - now i realised - your going to work with stepper O_O
[04:31:42] <XXCoder> yeah and I wont hear any noise my machine will make lol]
[04:34:46] <just_pink> with the dor close the machin is 26DB
[04:35:14] <XXCoder> to me, EVERYTHING is 0DB
[04:36:02] <just_pink> 26 is whisper
[04:38:28] <just_pink> XXCoder: I remember you story
[04:38:33] <just_pink> your*
[05:02:24] <Loetmichel2> XXCoder: deaf?
[05:02:40] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:03:38] <Loetmichel2> reminds me of the german song "sie mag musik nur wenn sie laut ist" ;-)
[05:04:06] <Loetmichel2> (about a deaf girl that likes music only if its loud enough to make her belly tremble)
[05:04:15] <XXCoder> lol ok
[05:04:20] <Loetmichel2> ... i think some machines you can "hear" also...
[05:04:27] <XXCoder> i sure can feel yes
[05:05:05] <Loetmichel2> so not EVERY machine is 0db to you ;)
[05:05:16] <XXCoder> actually feeling is not hearing
[05:06:20] <Loetmichel2> ( i was working at a 5m between centers cnc lathe some 20 years ago... that you could feel vibrating in the ground 2 buildings further down the road ;-)
[05:07:13] <Loetmichel2> <- off to london for 4 days
[05:07:21] <Deejay> happy vacation, loetmichel :)
[05:09:00] <zeeshan> ZzzZz
[05:09:27] <XXCoder> hey zeeshan
[05:09:35] <zeeshan> sup
[05:10:27] <XXCoder> not much
[05:10:32] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/g0Ikv
[05:10:34] <zeeshan> got the v jaw made
[05:10:35] <XXCoder> worked on my machine but ran into issues lol
[05:10:51] <zeeshan> yea i saw :)
[05:11:16] <Deejay> nice
[05:11:54] <zeeshan> added an air jet finally too
[05:11:54] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/nDfDEGf.jpg
[05:11:59] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZMrEicK.jpg
[05:12:08] <zeeshan> a little ghetto but it'll do the job till i get a proper mister
[05:13:36] <XXCoder> it works
[05:15:56] <zeeshan> what are you going to do about your issues
[05:16:21] <XXCoder> tomorrow I plan to go to lowes see if can buy 4 bolts
[05:16:32] <XXCoder> then try to find the wire clamp thingy
[05:16:38] <XXCoder> if not I guess buy another one
[05:17:11] <zeeshan> get her done!
[05:17:13] <zeeshan> then you can make cool stuff
[05:17:39] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:17:56] <XXCoder> gonna install linuxcnc on my old pc once I swap hard drive withg ssd
[05:18:40] <zeeshan> why not mach
[05:18:41] <Deejay> for faster milling? (with ssd)
[05:18:47] <Deejay> ;)
[05:18:53] <zeeshan> sorry its too late to troll
[05:18:55] <zeeshan> =D
[05:18:59] <XXCoder> I dont have mach3 :P
[05:19:03] <XXCoder> not that I want it
[05:19:45] <Deejay> its 11:56 am here :)
[05:19:54] <zeeshan> where is here
[05:19:57] <Deejay> hmm, time for lunch
[05:20:00] <Deejay> germany
[05:20:03] <zeeshan> cool
[05:20:05] <Deejay> at the krauts
[05:53:29] * archivist blames zeeshan
[05:54:32] <archivist> started cleaning the Harrison bench centres!
[05:59:00] <XXCoder> sparky clean!
[05:59:39] <archivist> de rusting first
[06:00:04] <XXCoder> if its not so clean you can cnc mill your food and eat it
[06:00:04] <Deejay> mechanical de-rusting?
[06:00:06] <XXCoder> its not clean
[06:00:08] <XXCoder> heh
[06:00:46] <archivist> mechanical with wire brushes and a carbide lathe tool as a scraper
[06:01:04] <Deejay> yay
[06:01:19] <XXCoder> use lathe make susages with tolence of .003
[06:01:33] <archivist> final clean with some very fine grit wet and dry where needed
[06:01:57] <archivist> I did take the before pics for a change :)
[06:02:05] <Deejay> hehe
[06:02:26] <XXCoder> good, told ya time machine would be handy
[06:03:01] <XXCoder> er I mean told ya if you er took notes you would remember this time
[06:03:08] <archivist> andypugh, did you know Harrison also made some bench centres?
[06:03:31] <andypugh> I didn’t know that, no.
[06:03:41] <andypugh> Not really their core sort of thing.
[06:04:01] <andypugh> Perhaps one of the directors wanted a set for himself.
[06:04:12] <archivist> been resting in the garden for many years, this set has admiralty on them
[06:05:42] <zeeshan> archivist: nice
[06:05:42] <archivist> bed is nearly 5ft long
[06:05:42] <zeeshan> pics
[06:06:03] <zeeshan> haha
[06:06:05] <archivist> not uploaded off the camera yet
[06:06:05] <zeeshan> is it a flower bed
[06:06:15] <Deejay> lol
[06:06:22] <archivist> cast bed
[06:07:01] <archivist> I love how cast iron survives abuse
[06:08:31] <archivist> before I got it is was rusty and had been used as a paint pot resting place, where a splodge of paint was and rusted clear, seem level with each other
[06:09:34] <zeeshan> such abuse
[06:09:36] <zeeshan> to treat it like that
[06:09:37] <zeeshan> :(
[06:10:08] <archivist> but it was like that when I got it :(
[06:10:09] <Deejay> so sad :(
[06:12:02] <zeeshan> i need some pancakes
[06:12:39] <archivist> I haz some pancakes in teh fridge
[06:12:45] <zeeshan> lucky
[06:12:48] <zeeshan> i think ill have to make some
[06:12:53] <zeeshan> dont have any of the microwave style
[06:13:00] <zeeshan> craving them so bad!
[06:13:02] <XXCoder> pay me $1000 plus travel
[06:13:16] <XXCoder> i will make whatever amount pancakes you want, your own materials of course
[06:13:23] <zeeshan> haha
[06:13:37] <archivist> you are supposed to be sleeeeeeping not dreeeeeeeming of pancakes
[06:13:58] <zeeshan> haha cant sleep :(
[06:14:01] <zeeshan> i took a nap earlier
[06:14:03] <zeeshan> and it screwed me up
[06:29:35] <dieter_> Hello together, i wonder if theres a solution for my problem, i am using 2.6.5 with gmoccapy screen on a plasma table and shetcam as cam Now the postprocessor gives me out a M03 and to get the plasma operating it supposed to have a S100 or similar on it. Rewriting the PP in sheetcam did not work it always gives out M03 any suggestions?
[06:32:09] <XXCoder> directly edit path file?
[06:33:51] <dieter_> Thats what I do now I search The M03s and replace them with M03S100 in the editor
[06:36:35] <XXCoder> ok, sorry cant help futher :)
[06:38:29] <dieter_> Np its annoying to edit every .ngc file
[06:40:17] <archivist> the post processor should be fixable
[06:40:31] <XXCoder> night
[06:40:43] <Deejay> gnite XXCoder
[06:44:29] <dieter_> @archivist, in Sheetcam i can edit the PP but even with the right M03S100 it throws me out M03
[08:33:41] <archivist> zeeshan, stopped for a sammich
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=harrison+bench+centres
[08:39:55] <andypugh> I assume you will be returning it to the admiralty?
[08:40:55] <archivist> fsck no :)
[08:42:26] <archivist> I suppose it could have been some admiralty contract to make them, I could not find any trace on google of a harrison made one
[08:44:00] <archivist> the left head slides ok/feels right
[08:44:38] <andypugh> You could ask Harrison, they might talk to you
[08:45:12] <andypugh> They are such a specialised thing that I have never needed one
[08:45:20] <archivist> nor me
[08:45:48] <archivist> well once when I needed to get a crank back in line
[08:49:17] <andypugh> I have probably had jobs where I could have used one, but used a lathe instead.
[08:50:15] <archivist> now I will have to bring in back into the garage.... and it will be in my way again
[08:53:33] <Jymmm> extend garage to surround it
[08:53:57] <Jymmm> more room to collect more stuff too ;)
[08:57:25] <Sync_> andypugh: if you do any meaningful crankshaft work they are very useful
[09:04:49] <Jymmm> I have 5 of these racks (
http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/samsclub/0001764199497_A?wid=1500&hei=1500&fmt=jpg&qlt=80 ), during the move the 4" swivel, 1/4-20 studs bent or the "U" metal bent...
[09:07:20] <Jymmm> I can't remove the 1/4" insert (pressed?), and can't even get replacements (no tthat they would be a crappy replacement anyway), any cheap solutions? I thought about using furniture dollys to "bolt" to the rods, but the metal on those "U" is even thinner than the casters I already have.
[09:16:42] <Jymmm> Here we go, I "only" need 20 of these...
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356890_200356890
[09:21:43] <fenn> the casters themselves broke? i have shelves like that and they take 3/8" threaded studs for the casters...
[09:22:45] <Jymmm> fenn: Yeah, jus tthe casters fubared. These are OLD (10+ years) the racks are perfectly fine,
[09:22:59] <Jymmm> 1/4"-20 studs
[09:23:07] <fenn> drill and tap it to take a bigger caster?
[09:23:29] <fenn> the insert looks like zinc (pot metal)
[09:23:57] <Jymmm> If I could, I'd still have to get 20 5/8" casters, it be cheaper to buy all new racks.
[09:24:13] <Jymmm> not the yellow stuff, but close =)
[09:25:33] <Jymmm> fenn: I was thinking in keeping the 1/4" thread, but use it to bolt to some kind of furniture dolly sorta thing.
[09:26:15] <fenn> the racks sell for $50-$150 depending on quality, yours look like the higher quality version, except for the cast thing
[09:26:16] <Jymmm> steel version ;)
[09:27:06] <Jymmm> Yeah, they are GREAT racks, 800lbs per shelf, 1200 lbs per rack, and not not shelf has ever even bowed, just during the move foudn the casters are crap.
[09:27:14] <Jymmm> one*
[09:27:22] <fenn> i don't think you can buy new racks for less than the cost of casters if replacement racks are $150
[09:28:19] <fenn> but maybe you can sell the racks and buy new racks with casters for less than the cost of casters and the labor of drilling and tapping
[09:28:29] <fenn> hah
[09:28:56] <Jymmm> If I had just one rack to replace, then sure. But 20 casters adds up quickly
[09:29:15] <fenn> are you equipped to mass produce casters yourself?
[09:29:36] <fenn> they dont look that hard to build
[09:30:06] <Jymmm> Nope, and even if I was, all my crap is on the racks that are currently being strapped together to prevent from falling over =)
[09:30:45] <Jymmm> Well, it's the "U" frame I think that would be a PITA plus the bearing
[09:31:37] <Jymmm> I could buy a chop saw, but I've never seen 3" "U" Channel steel
[09:32:51] <fenn> 2" channel would work for roller blade wheels
[09:33:39] <Jymmm> But roller blades usually have 3 wheels each, don't they?
[09:33:45] <Jymmm> 3+
[09:34:57] <Jymmm> If so, (let's say) that's 50lbs per wheel distributed weight
[09:36:08] <Jymmm> fenn: I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel! lmao
[09:36:34] <Jymmm> I'm usre there is soem simple solution, just have't found it yet =)
[09:37:36] <SpeedEvil> Wooden wheels and skate bearings
[09:37:48] <SpeedEvil> You really don't need something capable of high speed.
[09:38:09] <Jymmm> Ha, the oly wheels now have flat spots.
[09:38:15] <Jymmm> poly*
[09:38:35] <SpeedEvil> Not enough friction on poly wheels, so they flat-spot
[09:38:41] <SpeedEvil> Now oak won't do that
[09:39:02] <fenn> hmm roller blade wheels are $2/ea and casters are $5/ea
[09:39:15] <Jymmm> I think it was from bouncing in the moving truck
[09:39:42] <SpeedEvil> I am pondering making a silly freezer.
[09:40:17] <Jymmm> fenn: But what is the weight capacity of them?
[09:40:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221828281153?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT - to take these boxes, and present me with the desired one when I press a button
[09:41:38] <SpeedEvil> Fun packing issues. It's easy if you add lots of wasted space
[09:42:03] <SpeedEvil> If you allow it to become a sliding block puzzle, it gets way more dense
[09:42:41] <fenn> varies but around 500lb and the price per caster on ebay doesn't seem to be related to its capacity or features
[09:43:19] <Jymmm> fenn: 500?! Not even steeel wheeled casters I've seen so far are that much.
[09:43:51] <fenn> well these are probably bigger than what you were looking at, for example
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-Four-Faultless-Swivel-Casters-w-5-TPR-Gray-Wheels-1-2-ID-Threaded-Stem-/171796701644
[09:44:38] <Jymmm> fenn: It doesn't say if it's EACH or ALL four together is the issue
[09:46:05] <Jymmm> fenn: 330lb EACH (steel wheels)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-3-steel-swivel-wheels-caster-casters-330-lb-rated-capacity-each-/261779173915?hash=item3cf341321b
[09:46:18] <Jymmm> as example.
[09:46:49] <Tom_itx> if you look at the other examples you can deduce that the price is for all 4
[09:47:06] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Faultless-Swivel-Caster-w-5-TPR-Gray-Wheel-1-2-ID-Threaded-Stem-and-Side/400923559002?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Db35ef75a6ac243d498874f6ce87a478b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D171796701644
[09:47:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Not price, weight capacity per caster vs capacity for 4 casters
[09:47:27] <fenn> ooh good catch Tom_itx
[09:47:54] <Tom_itx> Capacity: 145
[09:47:56] <Tom_itx> for one
[09:47:57] <Jymmm> that one is 145lb
[09:48:35] <andypugh> I bought some castors for a lathe-moving frame rated at 250kg (500lb) each.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281572514347?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[09:49:14] <Jymmm> WTH.... "May not post (mail) to United States"
[09:49:39] <andypugh> I was not suggesting that you buy from them, just that they exist
[09:50:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: I guess I'll have to seduce a flight attendant... "Oh baby, gimme your cart" ;)
[09:50:33] <andypugh> Apparently you rate 4 x castors at 3x the individual rating, as typically only 3 have weight on them.
[09:51:14] <andypugh> FWIS it turns out that 100mm castors are big. :-)
[09:51:28] <Jymmm> Really? Intersting... Murphy's law says I should rate 4x at the 5x rating =)
[09:51:33] <fenn> i wonder why the weight rating is so much higher than other plastic/rubber casters of similar
[09:52:01] <Jymmm> fenn: bearings, material thickness,
[09:52:16] <Jymmm> materials, etc
[09:52:23] <fenn> size*
[09:52:23] <andypugh> The ones I listed?
[09:52:23] <fenn> yeah
[09:52:38] <Jymmm> those are THICK, look at the frames and plate
[09:52:42] <andypugh> Well, the stampings are 3.5mm thick metal, and they have proper swivel bearings.
[09:53:11] <archivist> I went to machinemart last time I needed some
[09:53:17] <Jymmm> bolts not rivets for axels too - repairable.
[09:54:09] <andypugh> They have nice features like a serrated plate on the swivel so that the brake locks the swivel as well as the wheel too.
[09:54:42] <andypugh> I haven’t tested them yet, but they look the part.
[09:55:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: Toss a couple drill presses on em for testing purposes =)
[09:55:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: then roll on to a moving truck and drive 500km or so =)
[09:55:45] <andypugh> I will be hanging a 750kg lathe off of them.
[09:56:01] <archivist> we put a lot on top of these
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_04_18_glass_trolley/IMG_1534.JPG
[09:56:33] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that they are aimed at the “roadie” equipment market, so are expected to spend most of their time in a truck.
[09:56:56] <archivist> under some duress :)
[09:56:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, those look great.
[09:57:27] <Jymmm> Just need to find somethign like them in USA
[09:58:38] <Jymmm> Hmmm...
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_40248_40248
[09:59:21] <fenn> so how much weight do you actually have on those shelves
[09:59:31] <archivist> andypugh, bit of a fight but managed to get the other centre apart, so looking repairable
[09:59:53] <Jymmm> fenn: per rack, about 700 lbs
[10:00:14] <Jymmm> fenn: rated at 1200 lbs per rack with feet (not casters)
[10:01:12] <fenn> so 1200lb rated set of casters would be 400lb rated each
[10:01:40] <andypugh> You might want to search both “caster” and “castor” as noth spellings seem to be in use.
[10:01:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok
[10:02:34] <Jymmm> fenn: What kills me is the thin frame that likes to bend under load
http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/700x700/189/189243_3_700x700.jpg
[10:03:17] <Jymmm> That pic is the same thickness that I have now, even if the steel wheel itself is rated for 1000lbs
[10:04:03] <Tom_itx> andypugh, does your carousel comp allow for Z axis movement?
[10:05:16] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, it is purely concerned with handling the carousel. Working out where it is and which way it needs to turn
[10:05:56] <Tom_itx> someone in dev was asking about z axis movement during toolchanges
[10:06:18] <archivist> I thought there were some tool changers with z already
[10:06:52] <Tom_itx> they exhist but i haven't searched for any code to do it
[10:07:10] <ttiimm> thats me asking...
[10:08:11] <andypugh> Have a look at this sample config:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/vismach/VMC_toolchange;h=3b5092268d0be9abeb625c960f5741203811b4a0;hb=3a6ab378e8c5d6759914e08f61cd28e6bd526e3d
[10:08:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh, it would seem as a natural addition to your comp :)
[10:08:44] <andypugh> It uses a remapped M6 to call a G-code routine, the G-code routine handles the sequencing and Z-axis movement.,
[10:09:03] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Not when I started to look in to it. It’s hard for a comp to move an axis.
[10:09:26] <Tom_itx> k, i don't know what 'layers' anything lies on in linuxcnc
[10:09:53] <fenn> Jymmm: i think to prevent damage from shock loading during a bumpy ride it would need its own suspension and would cost a zillion times more
[10:09:56] <archivist> what about sneaking an offset in
[10:11:20] <andypugh> archivist: It could be done, but the offset applied would have to be computed from home offsets, G45 offsets, G92 offsets and tool length offsets to become an absolute head position...
[10:11:38] <andypugh> (G54, that is)
[10:12:43] <archivist> I am thinking, you have moved to the right place, then start the tool change (when an offset is applied as needed)
[10:12:46] <fenn> Jymmm: like
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Shock-absorbering-Spring-caster-wheel_338724967.html
[10:15:16] <ttiimm> Tool change has been donem Tkamsker..andy is working on it, there are few others but they have kept it to themselves. One recently was a Hurco.
[10:15:27] <Jymmm> fenn: True, and this was a one-time (hopefully) moving/bouncing event =)
[10:16:25] <ttiimm> Then you have buys like me :-), i can build it and wire it up but hwne it comes to code i am completely stumped.
[10:17:42] <ttiimm> and fat fingers gees...
[10:18:01] <archivist> there are pastebins to show code to get help, I have no toolchange hardware to play with
[10:18:48] <Tom_itx> maybe the wiki should have a section on example toolchanger code
[10:18:59] <andypugh> ttiimm: To explain the files in that sample config. The .stl files are just the graphics for the simulate machine visualisation, so you can ignore those.
[10:19:29] <andypugh> An entry in the INI file has a REMAP for M6 that tells it to call toolchange.ngc, and you should take a look at that.
[10:20:33] <andypugh> remap.py and toplevel.py are standard files that remp uses. You need them, but you probably don’t need to change them.
[10:20:34] <ttiimm> I set the sim up already, a few weeks ago I was looking at it. I am ready to give it a shot but its been so damn hot in the shop , a few more weeks and the weather should break. 90-95 here , in the shop its well over 100
[10:20:55] <andypugh> And the rest is just a standard config.
[10:21:24] <Jymmm> fenn: Here's your "skate wheel" caster =)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Office-Chair-Rollerblade-Style-Soft-Wheel-Casters-Ball-Bearing-Axle-5-pc-Set-NEW-/380639034896?hash=item589fdabe10
[10:24:26] <Jymmm> Ok, two things I'll be salvaging from now on.... walwarts (which I've been doing for years), and now casters
[10:24:50] <fenn> and roller blades :)
[10:25:12] <fenn> soon you will have plenty of stuff to finish filling up your shelves
[10:25:12] <Jymmm> Nah, those I get from end-of-season sporting good clearance sales =)
[10:25:51] <Jymmm> The racks are full, that's part of the problem as it is =)
[10:26:21] <fenn> i wonder if casting aluminum wheels is worth it
[10:26:29] <Jymmm> fenn: Hint... get yourself some quart size zip lock bags and toss the walwarts on them, no tangled cords =)
[10:26:35] <Jymmm> in*
[10:27:16] <Jymmm> fenn: Not really, is't the frame itself that goes out befor ethe wheel does
[10:27:59] <fenn> i use velcro cord straps like
http://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-ONE-WRAP-Self-Gripping-Cable-Reusable/dp/B001E1Y5O6/
[10:28:25] <fenn> also there's a trick to wrapping up rope that would be hard to explain over irc
[10:28:36] <Jymmm> fenn: I have those too, but doesn't help when you have a box of 50+ walwarts of all kinds.
[10:29:30] <Jymmm> Ok, these have THICK frames....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-2-Swivel-Casters-Polyurethane-Wheel-w-Brake-700lb-each-4-Tool-Box-/171567438917?hash=item27f2375c45
[10:30:03] <Jymmm> Oh geeze... casters with zirk fittings...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Heavy-Duty-Semi-Steel-Cast-Iron-Casters-2-Swivel-2-Rigid-Set-of-4-/221724124064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339fc9a3a0
[10:30:31] <Jymmm> 1000 lb EACH =)
[10:31:26] <fenn> so you will bolt the racks to a board and then bolt the casters to the board?
[10:32:01] <Jymmm> fenn: Do you know what a furniture dolly is?
[10:32:41] <fenn> yeah but the racks dont really have a flat bottom to set on a dolly
[10:33:26] <Jymmm> the rods have a 1" flat on the bottom of each. I was gong to add a plate of fender washers
[10:33:33] <Jymmm> or*
[10:36:16] <Jymmm> Interesting....
http://www.amazon.com/Stalwart-Adjustable-Telescopic-Furniture-Roller/dp/B00IF6YJAS
[10:37:37] <Jymmm> Appliance rollers, don't turn, but I wonder the weight limit
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004670WB0/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00IF6YJAS&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=01YBBW2X5HWVKY9F1367
[10:39:15] <Jymmm> HAHA.... " certified frustration-free " (wanna bet?)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052PLYXA/
[10:41:11] <Jymmm> It looks "cute" for a 10,000 lb capacity
http://www.wrhardware.com/hand-trucks-and-dollies/all-hand-trucks-and-dollies-1/wesco-480019-hevi-mover-kit-clone-2.html
[10:55:14] <ChuangTzu> what sort of certifications are there for frustration levels?
[10:59:08] <fenn> jymmm here's another shock absorbing caster design
http://exhibition.ifdesign.de/entrydetails_en.html?beitrag_id=82933
[10:59:39] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: That's a GREAT question!!! Less than homicide, more than Mother Teresa?
[11:00:23] <fenn> it would need some kind of damper to keep from wobbling
[11:00:48] <Jymmm> fenn: oh gawd... those look scary for anything over 4 ounces =)
[11:01:10] <fenn> the "frustration free certification" just means they put it in a plain cardboard box or ziploc bag
[11:01:49] <Jymmm> fenn: (shush you, I know they were talking abut the packagin, ut it was more funny when refercing the product itself =)
[11:02:26] <Jymmm> Hmmm, what is the type of bearing used on the TOP of swivel casters?
[11:02:49] <fenn> ball bearings in a stamped or forged race
[11:03:20] <Jymmm> The bearing just below the stud
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTkxWDE2MDA=/z/gCAAAOxy9DRSAqVX/$%28KGrHqZ,!o4FHvb-gUQ,BS!qVW3V-w~~60_57.JPG
[11:03:42] <Jymmm> thrust bearing?
[11:04:01] <fenn> it's just a bunch of ball bearings with grease on them
[11:04:14] <SpeedEvil> I've got one heavy caster with a roller bearing in
[11:04:23] <SpeedEvil> way heavier than that
[11:04:47] <SpeedEvil> there may not even be a bearing cage
[11:04:58] <Jymmm> http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/machinery-tools-supplies/bearing-types
[11:05:06] <fenn> no need for a cage because they are going at 0 rpm
[11:05:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:05:26] <SpeedEvil> and less cage means more bearings
[11:05:55] <fenn> Jymmm: there's no special insert it's just a groove stamped into the top of the metal part
[11:06:00] <Jymmm> fenn: HA! You take a 800 lb cart, lose traction on a 6% grade ramp and see the RPM's jump =)
[11:06:14] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: this is on the top
[11:06:20] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: that is - the swivel
[11:06:21] <Jymmm> fenn: THIS bearing
http://cfnewsads.thomasnet.com/images/cmsimage/image/machinery-tools-supplies/ball-bearing.jpg
[11:06:37] <Jymmm> whats its name/type?
[11:06:59] <fenn> ball thrust bearing
[11:07:27] <Jymmm> TY
[11:08:41] <fenn> aka thrust ball bearing
[11:08:42] <Jymmm> I have like 100 skate bearings. If I took some 2" steel C-Channel, I could put 4 on each then bolt to the rack legs - much like that 10K lb skate thing
[11:09:16] <Jymmm> It only be 2" off the ground, but wouldn't really care as long as it worked.
[11:10:04] <Jymmm> well, more like 1" =)
[11:12:28] <Jymmm> Kinda like this with a hole in the middel to bolt to the racks
http://www.wrhardware.com/images/detailed/wesco-480020%20closeup.jpg
[11:12:35] <fenn> if your floors are that nice you can do like an air hockey table
[11:12:54] <Jymmm> Almost
[11:13:26] <Jymmm> would suck to roll them out of the garage as there's asphalte driveway
[11:14:26] <Jymmm> But If I can get the bearings for $30 or so for all 5 racks, I may never need to
[11:15:12] <fenn> speaking of which has anyone ever used air bearings for a leadscrew?
[11:15:35] <fenn> ganzuul was talking about hydrostatic leadscrews and it got me thinking
[11:16:03] <Jymmm> aren't most of those cermaic?
[11:16:36] <fenn> the reason people use ball screws is usually for the efficiency and low backlash, but an air bearing nut also has those traits
[11:17:30] <Tom_itx> what about load carrying ability?
[11:17:48] <PetefromTn_> whaddahell are we talking about here I'm lost LOL
[11:18:23] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, was looking for some new wheels for his roller skates
[11:18:55] <Jymmm> lol
[11:21:46] <ganzuul> fenn: The high load benefit means fast movements. The main reason I'm interested in it is isolating vibrations, mostly because I have studied a bunch of electronics and DSP stuff.
[11:23:57] <ganzuul> I'm not sure I want air bearings, since you need about 30 bar of pressure, and that quickly gets dangerous. Hydraulics are much safer, I think...
[11:24:36] <fenn> i dont think you need such high pressures
[11:25:01] <ganzuul> You're probably right. Just have to limit movement speed.
[11:25:49] <ganzuul> BTW, hydrostatics are supposed to have a higher load carrying capacity than ball screws. I assume this is because how the surface area calculation goes.
[11:26:32] <ganzuul> Oh, and hydrostatics even out imperfections in the surfaces.
[11:27:02] <ganzuul> So you should get extreme precision and accuracy.
[11:27:16] <fenn> same with air bearings
[11:27:37] <ganzuul> Air counts as a fluid in this nomenclature. :)
[11:27:44] <fenn> ok
[11:27:45] <pcw_home> until they crash
[11:29:42] <ganzuul> pcw_home: I'd love to know more about their failure modes! =D
[11:32:10] <Tom_itx> http://turbolab.tamu.edu/proc/turboproc/T20/T20161-186.pdf
[11:32:53] <ganzuul> Tom_itx: Awesome! thanks. :)
[11:34:00] <fenn> this paper is about hydrodynamic bearings
[11:34:21] <Tom_itx> http://www.kingsbury.com/pdf/universe_brochure.pdf
[11:34:26] <ganzuul> fenn: I know that an AC unit scroll compressor, or a fridge reciprocating compressor will do about 30 bar of pressure, and propane tanks are rated for 30 bar, so you COULD in theory hack together a cheap air bearing system.
[11:35:00] <fenn> you dont need 30 bar
[11:35:28] <furrywolf> fridge compressors need a continual supply of recirculating oil, no?
[11:35:41] <andypugh> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical-mill-lathe-project-log/110305-cnc.html is an interesting design excercise. I think he decided on hydrostatic bearings.
[11:36:18] <ganzuul> HOWEVER, it's been years since I did the calculation for the product of ambient air pressure times compression, so I don't know if the temp will approach the creep temp of whatever steel they use in propane tanks.
[11:36:40] <pcw_home> I thing the problem with air bearings for general use is that they have to be huge for reasonable loads
[11:36:41] <ganzuul> That is, if the propane tank will reach 500 deg C and explode.
[11:36:41] <pcw_home> so they are used for high precision machines and high speed spindles (and jet engines = foil bearings)
[11:36:43] <pcw_home> but are not economic for common machine tools
[11:36:46] <pcw_home> think
[11:37:25] <Tom_itx> they use air bearings on cmm
[11:37:32] <Tom_itx> little load
[11:37:45] <pcw_home> Right, precision and light loads
[11:38:33] <furrywolf> ganzuul: it'll approach bad temperatures for the copper lines built into the fridge compressor first, I'd suspect.
[11:38:55] <ganzuul> andypugh: I'll have to read all of that... thanks.
[11:40:45] <ganzuul> furrywolf: The most dangerous variable in these equations is area. A copper line might cool quick enough to remain without creep. Regardless, it's no place for guesstimates... Too dangerous. :(
[11:41:24] <fenn> why do you need such a large tank
[11:42:09] <fenn> with porous bearings you dont lose very much air even if it becomes misaligned somehow
[11:42:21] <ganzuul> I suspect that the pumping action itself produces oscillations, so you'd have to use two tanks and tap off the one which isn't being filled.
[11:42:29] <furrywolf> ganzuul: I think you overestimate the engineering of a fridge compressor. :)
[11:42:58] <fenn> worrying about pressure oscillations is premature optimization
[11:43:04] <ganzuul> furrywolf: What I have got littering my junk pile is a scroll compressor.
[11:43:08] <ganzuul> From an AC unit.
[11:43:17] <ganzuul> fenn: Good point..
[11:43:27] <furrywolf> they're made from the thinnest, cheapest materials they could find, with a little shaded pole motor that stalls if you do anything with it, even turn it on with a load,...
[11:44:16] <ganzuul> furrywolf: This one has a starting capacitor. In fact most of the ones from fridges too that I have seen have a starting capacitor.
[11:44:49] <ganzuul> I think this is because of EU regs.
[11:44:54] <furrywolf> run your fridge, unplug it, plug it back in less than 30 seconds later, let me know if it starts. :)
[11:45:17] <furrywolf> invariably they sit there buzzing until the protection trips
[11:45:31] <pcw_home> a scroll compressor would be fairly pulsation free (though all refrigeration compressors sputter oil into the high side output)
[11:46:09] <furrywolf> yes, and as I said, expect a continual supply of oil coming back to the low side.
[11:46:32] <pcw_home> (I used they as cheap vacumm pumps years ago and they make a mess)
[11:46:40] <pcw_home> them
[11:47:55] <pcw_home> they expect to have oil mixed with whatever they are compressing and they spit it out on the high side
[11:48:27] <pcw_home> so at the minimum you need an oil trap
[11:48:32] <furrywolf> I've never worked on house a/c systems, so don't know about them, but all vehicle a/c systems are the same way too.
[11:49:23] <ganzuul> I don't understand why people who bring up the oil issue never mention the filters made exactly for this problem.
[11:49:34] <ganzuul> It's really weird.
[11:49:42] <furrywolf> some people converting auto a/c compressors into air compressors use an oil trap with a orifice at the bottom and a line back to the input of the compressor, to try to keep most of the oil recirculating... some always makes it by.
[11:49:46] <ganzuul> You know about the oil, but not filters.
[11:49:51] <furrywolf> ganzuul: because the filters don't work. I have half a dozen of them of various types.
[11:50:31] <ganzuul> ...huh
[11:50:42] <furrywolf> when I spray with my spray gun, I usually have two or three of the filters somewhere in the line, and STILL get the occasional droplet in my paint... and that's from a compressor where the only oil output is what got past the rings, not one that intentionally circulates the oil.
[11:50:56] <pcw_home> I used one for an aquarium air pump for a while with vegetable oil (until the vegetable oil turned to varnish)
[11:51:13] <furrywolf> lol
[11:51:33] <ganzuul> furrywolf: Are they all the same size?
[11:51:45] <fenn> why dont they make air compressors with bellows instead of sliding seals that need to be lubricated
[11:51:51] <Jymmm> Nuttin 5000 CF of nitrogen wouldn't resolve - oil free =)
[11:52:48] <furrywolf> fenn: pressure rating and fatigue life, I'd suspect.
[11:52:59] <pcw_home> They do ( Diaphragm type)
[11:53:13] <furrywolf> all my diaphragm compressors are low-pressure.
[11:53:19] <pcw_home> yeah
[11:53:25] <pcw_home> but clean
[11:53:38] <fenn> you could even back up a bellows with a sliding seal, so the bellows doesnt have to carry much load, it just keeps all the crap out of the air system
[11:53:43] <Jymmm> Mine suck (lab vacuum pumps =)
[11:54:09] <fenn> er, with a sliding bearing i mean
[11:54:23] <fenn> or an air bearing :P
[11:54:29] <ganzuul> I'm not sure occasional droplets of oil would be detrimental to air bearings though.
[11:54:49] <fenn> it would clog up a porous bearing
[11:55:01] <fenn> depends how much oil and for how long i guess
[11:55:11] <ganzuul> The patens I have looked at show straight bores.
[11:55:23] <ganzuul> And dimples.
[11:55:45] <furrywolf> if you want an air bearing, my suggestion would be to pick up a thomas double-wobl (I think that's how they spell wobble) compressor.
[11:55:48] <fenn> i'm not interested in that kind because the bearing surface has to be perfect or else it leaks all the air out
[11:56:03] <furrywolf> fenn: more air. :)
[11:56:15] <pcw_home> oil would probably be fatal for a high speed spindle bearing
[11:56:57] <furrywolf> you can get the wobl compressors cheap because they're used internally in equipment that gets scrapped after a finite lifetime, and they're oil-free with sliding teflon (I think) seals.
[11:57:08] <furrywolf> they're also pleasantly quiet.
[11:57:45] <fenn> what sort of equipment do they come from
[11:58:11] <fenn> http://www.aerationsupply.com/catalog/compressors-diffusers-and-tubing/oiless-air-compressors/piston-air-compressors/thomas-1-3hp-double-piston-oiless-air-compressor.html
[11:58:17] <furrywolf> oxygen concentrators are the most common ones I see.
[11:59:26] <Jymmm> medical gear?
[12:00:12] <furrywolf> yes
[12:00:22] <furrywolf> and they got scrapped when the seive beds go bad. :)
[12:00:56] <fenn> looks like they only do 30 psi
[12:01:00] <ganzuul> http://www.oxygenplusmedical.com/oxygen-concentrator-rebuilds.htm
[12:01:02] <ganzuul> hmm
[12:01:05] <Jymmm> fenn: So go find someone with respritory issues, and snag their O2 concentrator =)
[12:01:32] <fenn> oh, "30+ psi (11 bar)" heh
[12:02:12] <furrywolf> I had one I ran at 145PSI for a while...
[12:02:25] <furrywolf> you can get different models.
[12:02:27] <ganzuul> How much while?
[12:02:52] <furrywolf> ganzuul: dunno how long it would have lasted. the start capacitor shorted to the case and fried it before it failed from natural causes.
[12:03:04] <furrywolf> lots of pretty sparks.
[12:03:05] <ganzuul> huh!
[12:03:17] <furrywolf> I had it flopping around on wires. i.e. user error.
[12:05:10] <furrywolf> they're called "wobble" because they use a spherical-section piston seal with no wrist pin, but it seems to work.
[12:05:18] <ganzuul> Think one of those could be used as a roughing pump for a diffusion pump?
[12:05:50] * ganzuul takes notes: spehrical seal
[12:05:57] <furrywolf> sure, why not...
[12:06:05] * furrywolf isn't a vacuum pump expert
[12:06:18] * ganzuul is trying to become one
[12:06:32] <ganzuul> Because you can do all sortsa cool stuff with them.
[12:06:41] <ganzuul> Like space station air-locks.
[12:07:08] <ganzuul> Or electron beam shooting galleys.
[12:07:31] <furrywolf> somewhere I have a ion gauge if you need it. :P
[12:07:38] <ganzuul> \o/
[12:07:49] <furrywolf> or, at least, the electrode from one. lol
[12:07:53] <andypugh> Home made air-bearing lathe. (lovely)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q
[12:08:25] <ganzuul> yeah, but that's Dan Gelbart. He spent 2.5 mil on his stuff.
[12:08:56] <fenn> very pretty
[12:09:08] <andypugh> The lathe cost him $10,000 he said (when I asked)
[12:09:29] <ganzuul> !=o
[12:09:50] <furrywolf> there's a ton of those double-wobble compressors on ebay, dirt cheap. there's where I bought mine, and where I sold mine after it failed. (yes, I was honest and mentioned it had a bad winding - someone probably need a head or pistons or something).
[12:10:02] <Rab> watching video, dropping jaw
[12:12:28] <furrywolf> they seem to outlast the equipment they're put in. :)
[12:13:10] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Compressor-2660-Unit-Pond-Aeration-Suction-Pressure-/171779893857 160PSI
[12:13:20] <fenn> "this lathe is designed for very small loads"
[12:13:32] <furrywolf> buy it now for $55 with $15 shipping
[12:13:44] <ganzuul> furrywolf: That IS cheap...
[12:13:54] <furrywolf> ganzuul: told you. :P
[12:15:15] <ganzuul> I'd probably place an order if I wasn't intending to move...
[12:15:36] <ganzuul> My scroll compressor was free though. :o)
[12:15:53] <furrywolf> they're used in lots of OEM equipment, and outlast other parts of the equipment. with oxygen concentrators, the sieve beds wear out, and the cost to replace them has too many zeroes, so they just bill their insurance for a new unit...
[12:16:26] <ganzuul> cool
[12:16:28] <ganzuul> kinda
[12:16:58] <fenn> challenge: built entire metalworking shop from scrap medical equipment
[12:17:19] <furrywolf> probably doable. :P
[12:17:57] <ganzuul> titanium 'knee' mill
[12:18:20] <Rab> boo
[12:18:44] <furrywolf> lol
[12:18:47] <ganzuul> :p
[12:19:04] <XXCoder> fenn: pretty sure thats very doable
[12:19:14] <fenn> the power wheelchair motors where pretty cheap
[12:19:18] <XXCoder> pretty powerful motors in some machines
[12:19:56] <furrywolf> the largest motor I've pulled out of a machine was a 2hp with a nice worm drive... it was the table tilt for an x-ray machine.
[12:20:54] <furrywolf> had a bunch of double#40 chain and sprockets too, which got used on one of the kinetic sculptures...
[12:23:10] <furrywolf> hrmm, I'm not sure about that ebay listing. thomas lists that model as being a 30psi one, not a 160psi one.
[12:23:19] <furrywolf> someone might have gotten their model numbers confused.
[12:23:29] <furrywolf> don't buy that one for a pressure pump. :)
[12:23:37] <ganzuul> *nod*
[12:24:16] <furrywolf> and several listing say 30psi/11bar, and that's confused in more ways than one. :)
[12:25:34] <fenn> wow that lathe is an inspiration
[12:25:55] <XXCoder> hat grinder lathe?
[12:25:59] <fenn> yeah
[12:27:06] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-2688VE44-Dry-Running-Dual-Stage-Compressor-Vacuum-Pump-115V-60Hz-2-9A-/151772445953 that one lists as 160 psi on thomas's sheets.
[12:27:24] <furrywolf> and looks like it comes with swagelok fittings. :P
[12:28:33] <furrywolf> I was very happy with mine... I should buy another, actually. heh.
[12:29:45] <ganzuul> Shipping:
[12:29:46] <ganzuul> $113.80 (approx. EUR 104.03)
[12:29:48] <ganzuul> argh
[12:30:49] <furrywolf> yeah, if you're on that side of the pond, you might want to shop on ebay.co.uk or such... :P
[12:32:06] <ganzuul> There is a .de too
[12:32:26] * furrywolf didn't know where ganzuul lived
[12:34:12] <ganzuul> .fi
[12:35:14] <archivist> the frozen north
[12:35:30] <fenn> land of sampo
[12:35:39] <furrywolf> I used them for pneumatics... they're about the only compressor that moves a decent amount of air, is quiet enough to have a conversation near, and is cheap.
[12:36:49] <furrywolf> powerex makes some really nice oilless scroll air compressors, but they're not cheap.
[12:36:51] <miek123> is there a name for something that's a lot like a collet (where it's split and the hold down power comes from compression) but works in the opposite way, where it expands? I'm looking some workholding jig that can hold a piece that has a predrilled 1-1/8 hole in it
[12:37:10] <miek123> and hold it by the hole
[12:37:12] <fenn> miek123: it's called a mandrel
[12:37:29] <miek123> cool, thanks!
[12:37:36] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerex-3hp-Oil-Less-Scroll-Compressor-SLAE03-/151700801519 example. lol
[12:38:29] <furrywolf> I like someone's "let's screw enough random fittings together to make the air cool before it pops another hose" cooler.
[12:39:35] <fenn> miek123: may have better results with the keyword "expanding mandrel"
[12:40:35] <ganzuul> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Thomas-Pumpe-Vakuumpumpe-Kompressor-Profi-USA-910-mbar-olfrei-f-CFK-GFK-/331410463565?hash=item4d299a5b4d
[12:42:41] <fenn> miek123:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/expanding-mandrel-sleeve-4-long-minimum-diameter-1-3-16-max-diameter-1-7-32-/221845961929
[12:43:29] <fenn> that has a goofy taper thingy, i'd rather use a bolt
[12:43:58] * ganzuul wonders if sampo was a cnc machine...
[12:44:29] <fenn> it's definitely an alien nanoassembler
[12:44:39] <fenn> there's no other explanation
[12:45:26] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels/MT2-Expanding-Mandrels-Screw-Locking
[12:46:15] <fenn> not quite big enough
[12:46:49] <archivist> they have other sizes
[12:47:04] <miek123> hmm, cool.
[12:47:42] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels
[12:48:13] <fenn> i guess "expanding collet" is also a thing
[12:49:05] <archivist> often for specials one makes something
[12:49:50] <miek123> i need to find out what type of trunnion table the shop i'm planning on using has..i'm 99% sure it's a VF2 or 3 with a haas-made trunnion table
[12:50:56] <miek123> http://workholdings.positrol.com/viewitems/collet-arbors/single-taper-flanged-collet-arbor-assembly
[12:52:08] <ganzuul> "vakuumpumpe thomas" gets good hits on ebay.de...
[13:01:57] <zeeshan> archivist: gimme!
[13:02:42] <zeeshan> archivist: i was expecting something that had trees coming out of it
[13:03:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: did you figure out the alternator?
[13:13:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/u7kuhWr.jpg
[13:13:43] <zeeshan> predictions on how well this maintains X Y Z position of work piece in machine? :-)
[13:43:00] <archivist> zeeshan, now a runner, two more images
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=harrison+bench+centres
[13:43:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: haven't worked on it
[13:43:31] <zeeshan> why
[13:44:09] <zeeshan> boy you cleaned that up pretty good
[13:44:14] <archivist> I did remove all the plant life that was living in it :)
[13:44:23] <zeeshan> archivist: that is aVERY nice tool
[13:44:24] <zeeshan> to have
[13:44:28] <zeeshan> whats the center to center distance?
[13:44:34] <zeeshan> to give me size perspective
[13:44:50] <archivist> almost 60" bed
[13:45:15] * archivist goes to measure internal
[13:45:31] <furrywolf> car is stuck at someone else's house, and I haven't headed over there
[13:47:53] <archivist> zeeshan, the left centre needs pressing back in then 39"
[13:48:13] <archivist> 57 1/2" bed
[13:49:05] <archivist> needs a repaint and a bit more tidying up
[13:51:52] <zeeshan> thats a pretty nice amount
[13:52:00] <zeeshan> easily mount crankshafts on there
[13:52:33] <archivist> but but you made me clean it up!
[13:52:55] <zeeshan> another tool that is going in my suitcase
[13:52:57] <zeeshan> when i come
[13:53:00] <zeeshan> :-)
[13:53:21] <archivist> I am confident that will fall through any suitcase
[13:53:47] <zeeshan> by suitcase i mean:
[13:53:56] <zeeshan> http://budgetboxtulsa.com/wp-content/themes/BudgetBox/images/container-big.jpg
[13:53:59] <zeeshan> :-)
[13:54:37] <archivist> you need that to send the milling machine to me :)
[13:54:49] <zeeshan> you dont want it
[13:54:53] <zeeshan> it's inaccurate!
[13:55:04] <archivist> ifixit
[13:55:14] <zeeshan> when i get a bit of free time wher ei dont need to use it
[13:55:19] <zeeshan> i will try to tighten the Z axis gib
[13:55:42] <zeeshan> it's worth restoring this machine
[13:55:47] <zeeshan> even if there is some wear on the ways
[13:56:19] <archivist> you could cheat and write some kins to remove some error
[13:56:24] <zeeshan> archivist: i have a q
[13:56:28] <zeeshan> look if youre just stationary
[13:56:31] <zeeshan> and sweeping the table
[13:56:35] <zeeshan> and you notice in the +y it's 0
[13:56:45] <zeeshan> and -y its off by 2 thou
[13:56:55] <zeeshan> you can conconclude that either the head or the table isn't aligned
[13:56:56] <zeeshan> right?
[13:57:03] <zeeshan> cause it's a stationary error
[13:57:17] <archivist> or the table is tapered or
[13:57:41] <archivist> or the z is tilted
[13:57:47] <zeeshan> but would it make sense
[13:57:51] <zeeshan> the Z is tilted up higher
[13:57:53] <zeeshan> from the front??
[13:57:58] <zeeshan> woulkdnt it sag down?
[13:58:18] <zeeshan> for the majority of parts that i work on
[13:58:22] <zeeshan> this error is insignificantly
[13:58:28] <zeeshan> but it bothers me for larger parts
[13:58:37] <zeeshan> like the current 2-1/4 part im working on
[13:58:41] <zeeshan> the error is only like 0.0002"
[13:58:45] <zeeshan> cause of the small distance
[13:58:55] <archivist> is there half a gnats cock of crap in that rotary joint
[13:59:09] <zeeshan> you're talking about
[13:59:13] <zeeshan> the titlting head?
[13:59:15] <archivist> at the bottom
[13:59:16] <zeeshan> about the Y axis?
[13:59:25] <zeeshan> i cleaned that bottom joint up pretty good
[13:59:27] <zeeshan> i stoned it too
[13:59:33] <archivist> yes, lots of possible errors
[13:59:47] <zeeshan> someone definitely had this machine apart
[13:59:53] <zeeshan> to service something
[14:00:29] <archivist> I found some damage on the bench centres today
[14:00:34] <zeeshan> where at?
[14:01:03] <archivist> I think all stuff gets a few war wounds through use
[14:01:34] <zeeshan> did someone drop something on the bed?
[14:01:35] <archivist> the lever to pull the centre back and the rack on the centre
[14:02:27] <archivist> the spring throws the lever and hammers the itself and the rack
[14:03:27] <zeeshan> nice :P
[14:03:28] <archivist> so the rack was tight in the bore, the lever gear has one very damaged tooth
[14:03:40] <zeeshan> braze a new one on!
[14:03:45] <zeeshan> im really enjoying brazing
[14:03:50] <zeeshan> ive never done it before, but tig brazing is fun
[14:03:55] <zeeshan> you really dont warp the base material
[14:03:58] <zeeshan> cause you're not even melting it
[14:04:01] <archivist> nah, will file it to fix it
[14:04:37] <archivist> the rack just needed some wet and dry paper till it slid in
[14:04:54] <archivist> remove the burs
[14:05:19] <zeeshan> cool
[14:05:29] <zeeshan> its hard to understand the damage witrhout seeing a pic :)
[14:05:58] <archivist> but I put it back together!
[14:06:26] <zeeshan> its okay, you can take some when you fix it
[14:06:53] <archivist> now I have to find an indor place for it.....grrrrr
[14:08:28] <archivist> and make or borrow an adapter to fit DTIs to the middle bit
[14:09:37] <zeeshan> just throw a noga arm on it
[14:10:22] <archivist> I only have Eclipse, I am english
[14:16:23] <zeeshan> this might be silly q
[14:16:30] <ganzuul> hydrostatic bearings + pressure washer = ?
[14:16:39] <zeeshan> but is there anyway to make linuxcnc recognize .nc extensions too for g-code
[14:16:40] <zeeshan> not just ngc
[14:17:50] <Tom_itx> yes, in the ini
[14:17:55] <Tom_itx> i changed mine
[14:18:08] <zeeshan> ok ill take a look
[14:18:11] <furrywolf> ganzuul: I doubt you need that much flow...
[14:18:27] <furrywolf> if you do, you need new bearings. :)
[14:18:57] <ganzuul> furrywolf: But it's OtS components. They keep dropping in price.
[14:20:53] <zeeshan> anyone know how to make a 3 jaw chuck have less run out?
[14:21:24] <zeeshan> is there an obvious adjustment on there that i am overlooking? :D
[14:21:43] <furrywolf> also, the life expectancy of the average electric pressure washer seems to be about 10 hours...
[14:21:47] <Tom_itx> [FILTER]
[14:21:47] <Tom_itx> PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .txt XYZ Post Processor
[14:21:57] <ganzuul> zeeshan: Are they installed in the right order?
[14:22:02] <furrywolf> they just hope you don't use it more than 10 hours before the 60 day warranty runs out. :P
[14:22:07] <zeeshan> ganzuul: id hope so!
[14:22:12] <zeeshan> they only go in one order
[14:22:16] <zeeshan> otherwise the jaws dont line up
[14:22:39] <zeeshan> actually now that i think about it
[14:22:43] <zeeshan> you could rearrange the order
[14:22:57] <zeeshan> so you're saying change the order of the jaws
[14:23:03] <Tom_itx> zeeshan ^^
[14:23:04] * zeeshan will take a look at that
[14:23:10] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: will fix in a few :-)
[14:23:13] <ganzuul> zeeshan: It's the only thing I know about.
[14:23:14] <zeeshan> need to water my garden first
[14:23:21] <zeeshan> soil looks dry
[14:23:26] <zeeshan> tomatos maturing
[14:23:26] <zeeshan> :D
[14:23:29] <ganzuul> But that's not saying much. :p
[14:23:45] <Tom_itx> i'm used to the .txt extension :D
[14:24:14] <furrywolf> if you get the jaws in the wrong place, you'll have obviously visible runout (like, 1/8") and the jaws won't close.
[14:24:25] <furrywolf> at least on the chucks I own.
[14:24:33] <zeeshan> furrywolf: but you could have them in the wrong slot
[14:24:38] <zeeshan> but index the scroll in a certain way
[14:24:40] <zeeshan> that they'll still work
[14:24:56] <zeeshan> maybe it's the fitment in each slot that brings about error?
[14:25:08] <furrywolf> only if you rotate all three of them. if you swap any two of them, you'll get obvious not working.
[14:25:13] <zeeshan> i have 10 parts where i gotta make a 5 deg 42' 38" taper
[14:25:17] <zeeshan> within 10 minutes
[14:25:38] <zeeshan> concentricity needs to be 2-3 thou max
[14:26:29] <zeeshan> so i'd really wanna fix my 3 jaw before i attempt to do the job :)
[14:26:30] <zeeshan> forces me to fix it
[14:26:40] <zeeshan> brb
[14:29:27] <ganzuul> zeeshan: All I know is: mark them well before you take them out.
[14:30:28] <archivist> use soft jaws
[14:33:40] <ganzuul> archivist: Different gauges of copper sheet fitted to the 3 jaws?
[14:34:16] <andypugh> zeeshan: Perfectly, I would think. Until you start to machine it.
[14:35:36] <Tom_itx> zeeshan you got plug gages for that?
[14:35:40] <archivist> you can machine soft jaws, to fix concentricity adding shims is a pain, better to use the 4 jaw
[14:38:09] <andypugh> I have a three-jaw for my milling table.
[14:39:16] <sliptonic> varesa: Am I correct that you did a conversion of a Terco 4500?
[14:47:52] <archivist> sliptonic, skunkworks
http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/terco.JPG
[14:53:08] <zeeshan-mill> Tom_itx, you there
[14:53:32] <zeeshan-mill> zlog
[14:54:19] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[14:54:48] <zeeshan-mill> it worked
[14:54:48] <zeeshan-mill> thanks
[14:55:32] <andypugh> skunkworks: It’s just like a machine tool only smaller
[14:59:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, thanks for the expand/collapse....
[15:01:01] <zeeshan-mill> hmm
[15:01:10] <zeeshan-mill> i measure the runout at the chuck body i get 3.5 thou
[15:01:21] <zeeshan-mill> i put a dowel in the chuck i get 1.5 thou tir
[15:01:25] <Tom_itx> so use a 4jaw
[15:01:34] <zeeshan-mill> well this is tir
[15:02:09] * zeeshan-mill thinks about this
[15:02:30] <Tom_itx> make softjaws
[15:02:35] <zeeshan-mill> concentricity measures the deviation of center point
[15:02:39] <zeeshan-mill> so if tir is 1.5 thou
[15:02:48] <zeeshan-mill> that means the concentricity is out by half that
[15:02:57] <zeeshan-mill> isnt it? :)
[15:03:00] * Tom_itx thinks zeeshan-mill overthinks
[15:03:06] <zeeshan-mill> so im in spec
[15:03:21] <Tom_itx> how are they gonna check it anyway?
[15:03:26] <zeeshan-mill> easy
[15:03:37] <zeeshan-mill> rotate it in a v block
[15:03:56] <zeeshan-mill> this is amachine shop that outsourced work to me
[15:04:05] <zeeshan-mill> cause they are too busy to do it
[15:04:11] <zeeshan-mill> we'll see
[15:04:16] <zeeshan-mill> ill make a test piece
[15:04:22] <Tom_itx> better not screw it up or they'll fire ya
[15:04:25] <zeeshan-mill> haha
[15:04:34] <Tom_itx> you got a plug gage for the taper?
[15:04:36] <Tom_itx> go nogo
[15:04:41] <zeeshan-mill> yes they mailed me one
[15:04:43] <zeeshan-mill> it should be here monday
[15:05:00] <zeeshan-mill> im doing everything but the taper today
[15:05:10] <zeeshan-mill> gotta finish this other job too today
[15:05:13] <zeeshan-mill> been slacking
[15:05:28] <Tom_itx> me too but i've had an excuse
[15:05:37] <zeeshan-mill> what is your excuse
[15:05:51] <Tom_itx> i got a note from the doc
[15:06:14] <zeeshan-mill> are you sick
[15:06:22] <zeeshan-mill> i still am on antibiotics
[15:06:28] <zeeshan-mill> i had a bad case of folliculitis
[15:06:30] <Tom_itx> pinched nerve bet C6-7
[15:06:32] <zeeshan-mill> couldnt even rest my head
[15:06:40] <zeeshan-mill> where is c6-7
[15:06:53] <Tom_itx> lower neck affecting arms
[15:07:02] <zeeshan-mill> damn
[15:07:10] * Tom_itx flails his arms around wildly to demonstrate
[15:07:22] <zeeshan-mill> does it hurt
[15:07:24] <zeeshan-mill> or is it numb
[15:07:27] <Tom_itx> both
[15:07:31] <Tom_itx> it varies
[15:07:49] <Tom_itx> just the left side
[15:08:04] <zeeshan-mill> are you left handed
[15:08:13] <Tom_itx> no
[15:09:09] <Tom_itx> i may dig out the control and look at it a bit today
[15:25:44] <archivist> just tried sliding one of the heads up and down with WD40 as the "oil" slides quite freely
[15:46:46] <zeeshan-mill> archivist, put a test bar in it!
[16:04:33] <furrywolf> know what's annoying about macro photography? you realize just how dusty all your crap is. :P
[16:08:45] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, you try out the expand collapse?
[16:10:00] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/
[16:10:46] <PetefromTn_> Here a machining question for you guys.... Wondering how YOU would do this..
[16:10:57] <zeeshan-mill> the v doesnt keep the part concentric
[16:10:57] <zeeshan-mill> damn it
[16:11:03] <zeeshan-mill> it goes out by 8 thou
[16:11:13] <zeeshan-mill> i need v+stop like jt posted
[16:11:21] <PetefromTn_> http://www.premiershootingsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/Match--Mount-One-Piece-30mm-Match-Mount---3-8--or-11mm-Rail--Matt-Black---High-HM6148.html
[16:11:34] <PetefromTn_> I have this scope mount for my wife's competition rifle
[16:12:03] <PetefromTn_> and as with the custom mounts I machine for other target rifles her gun needs to be drop compensated
[16:12:33] <PetefromTn_> I actually have a design for a custom droop compensated rail I am working on but it won't be ready for awhile
[16:12:49] <PetefromTn_> so in the mean time I was looking at this mount
[16:13:42] <PetefromTn_> and I realized that I could probably remaching the mount to be drop compensated if I can figure out a good way to hold onto the damn thing in the vise.
[16:14:25] <PetefromTn_> you would have to remove the moving jaw on the dovetail and the four screws
[16:14:38] <PetefromTn_> then remove the ring halves and screws
[16:15:15] <PetefromTn_> but then you have this funky shaped part that you have a hard time holding on to because the thickest straightest part you will be milling on
[16:16:01] <PetefromTn_> but basically deck the flat part of the bottom
[16:16:07] <PetefromTn_> at the required angle
[16:16:54] <PetefromTn_> then put the dovetail cutter in and set it at that depth and remachine the fixed dovetail part perhaps taking off some more of the material to ensure a clean dovetail
[16:17:18] <PetefromTn_> but the hard part will be the groove that locates the removable part of the dovetail..
[16:18:04] <PetefromTn_> and that is all assuming you can find a way to hold onto the part securely enough to machine on it LOL
[16:22:37] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, why can't you just bolt it down thorough the scope hold down holes (smaller screw of course if from the top)
[16:23:00] <JT-Shop> your machining the dovetail right?
[16:26:25] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop actually I am doing just that...
[16:26:39] <PetefromTn_> I already made a mount for it but I was wondering what you guys thought would be the best way
[16:27:10] <PetefromTn_> I just transfer punched a hole in a piece of 1/4 inch plate thru the scope ring holes upside down
[16:27:17] <os1r1s> Is anyone familiar with how the turret type toolchangers work (The ones that go in front of the spindle like on emco mills)?
[16:27:46] <JT-Shop> I'd take a piece of 1/2 6061 and drill 8 body size holes and bolt that puppy down
[16:28:03] <PetefromTn_> I made the holes a touch larger than the screws so I could align it to the X axis
[16:28:13] <JT-Shop> that works good too
[16:28:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah I used 1/4 but 1/2 would have probably been better
[16:28:22] <JT-Shop> os1r1s, lathe turret?
[16:28:44] <PetefromTn_> just was wondering if someone had a better idea or not ;)
[16:31:01] <os1r1s> JT-Shop: One like this ...
http://sic.umh.es/files/2013/01/Imagen6.png
[16:31:40] <PetefromTn_> That looks like a drill and Tap center style toolchanger
[16:31:42] <os1r1s> Where it holds the bits and rotates around the spindle
[16:32:32] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I'm trying to find some pictures of how that is built
[16:34:38] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/files/linuxcnc/configs/cl-turret-sim.zip
[16:34:57] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0FmgjYOL1M
[16:35:34] <PetefromTn_> Brother drill and tap and also look at Fanuc Robodrill machines...
[16:35:49] <PetefromTn_> they both have probably the best versions of that style of toolchanger
[16:39:40] <malcom2073> There was a mill recently at auction that had that style toolchanger
[16:39:46] <malcom2073> drill and tapping machine rather
[16:39:47] <malcom2073> mill-ish
[16:40:19] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Thats exactly it. Thanks!
[16:47:49] <JT-Shop> your Sunday song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQufirEduXk
[16:55:14] <XXCoder> os1r1s: looks weird
[16:56:28] <XXCoder> pretty cool though
[16:58:14] <sliptonic> archivist, thanks for the pic. The one I'm looking at is different but I think the motors are similar. What can you tell me about them?
[16:58:59] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxZVMc2kjZQ casting a 'large' compressor
[17:02:12] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/macroruler01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/macrodustyresistor01.jpg I'm not sure I'm being useful. lol
[17:12:43] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, yes i tried it...
[17:13:05] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that is cool!
[17:13:09] <zeeshan> what did you take those pics with
[17:13:13] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Sent PM
[17:14:22] <JT-Shop> is that what you wanted?
[17:14:34] <furrywolf> pentax optio s-10
[17:14:55] <furrywolf> with an eyepiece from an old pair of pentax binoculars stuck onto it. :)
[17:16:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, exactly.. thanks
[17:16:34] <Tom_itx> now for an icecream run...
[17:18:51] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, sounds like a plan but make sure the top mounts are parallel to the base
[17:19:50] <Tom_itx> you could even shim it to your droop and make a straight cut that way
[17:30:01] <furrywolf> ice cream sounds like a really good idea.
[17:30:33] <JT-Shop> I remember what ice cream is
[17:30:42] <furrywolf> ?
[17:33:01] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx what do you mean make sure top mounts are parallel to the base?
[17:33:58] <Jymmm> How do you fix gaps in exterior wall of garage/shop?
[17:34:15] <PetefromTn_> chewing gum?
[17:34:16] <furrywolf> what are the gaps caused by?
[17:34:53] <furrywolf> caulk and paint for minor non-structual things, appropriate repair materials to whatever the structure is made of for structual things...
[17:35:19] <Jymmm> They replaced a panel
[17:35:32] <furrywolf> a panel of what?
[17:36:03] <Jymmm> that 1/2" thick wood that looks like siding
[17:36:19] <Jymmm> (I dont know the real name of it)
[17:36:33] <furrywolf> siding. :P
[17:36:45] <furrywolf> T-111 is common...
[17:36:47] <furrywolf> caulk and paint.
[17:37:16] <Jymmm> cracks are about 1/4"
[17:37:36] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> caulk and paint.
[17:37:49] <Jymmm> http://www.showroom411.com/Media/DirectoryEntries/gp%20panels.jpg
[17:38:26] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> <furrywolf> caulk and paint.
[17:39:06] <Jymmm> doesn't latex crack when it gets too cold?
[17:40:04] <furrywolf> there's a wide variety of caulks available at your local hardware store. you should read the instructions on them, which will also discuss their properties.
[17:40:15] <furrywolf> "big stretch" is quite nice for big gaps you don't want cracking.
[17:40:55] <furrywolf> Lexel is also nice.
[17:41:04] <furrywolf> There's even paintable silicones now.
[17:41:10] <furrywolf> And of course polyurethanes...
[17:43:22] <furrywolf> brb
[17:44:50] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, if you're gonna mount it upside down to machine you want to make sure those surfaces are parallel to the bottom you are machining
[17:44:57] <Tom_itx> they probably are...
[17:45:38] <PetefromTn_> actually I already machined it ;)
[17:45:57] <PetefromTn_> but yeah I ran my DTI all over the damn thing before I brought the sharp stuff out.
[17:46:33] <PetefromTn_> it SEEMS to have worked okay but I will try to mount the thing after dinner here
[17:47:33] <PetefromTn_> I realized after I cut it that I have to thin the bottom of the dovetail at the same angle I cut everything at unfortunately AFTER I removed it from the machine.. I will have to pick it back up and cut a skim cut on the top of the fixed dovetail again to make it work correctly.
[17:48:23] <Tom_itx> you may have to do the same with the other side as well
[17:48:41] <PetefromTn_> no the other side rides in the groove that I remachined
[17:48:51] <PetefromTn_> which is now at an angle
[17:49:18] <PetefromTn_> but if I try to install it the way it is the BOTTOM of the dovetail will hit the bottom of the female on the rifle as it is....
[17:53:51] <zeeshan> damn you mastercam
[17:53:55] <zeeshan> you failed me today
[17:54:05] <zeeshan> i found a bug in the post processing :D
[17:54:28] <zeeshan> if you use a certain tool to do a drill cycle at a certain height, but then call for the same drill cycle at a different height
[17:54:39] <zeeshan> it forgets to output g0 before giving the new x y position
[17:54:39] <zeeshan> doh
[18:01:19] <Tom_itx> the height change shouldn't make a difference whether it rapids to the next hole or not
[18:01:49] <andypugh> I wonder what that Air-Max compressor is for?
[18:01:53] <Tom_itx> in smartcam, all the zclear heights are specified with the hole
[18:27:35] <furrywolf> it's too hot.
[18:40:19] <just_pink> hii
[18:40:29] <PetefromTn_> Hey justpink
[18:41:54] <just_pink> I have huge problem - my Z axis motor boiling hot about 60 C - 140F
[18:42:19] <furrywolf> that's still 40/72 degrees below boiling.
[18:42:37] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: I have no idea what to do :(
[18:42:51] <furrywolf> stepper or servo?
[18:43:01] <just_pink> servo
[18:43:14] <furrywolf> you probably have it tuned wrong, or noise in the system.
[18:43:24] <furrywolf> I assume this is when the machine is sitting idle?
[18:43:33] <just_pink> yes
[18:43:48] <furrywolf> is it humming or vibrating back and forth slightly?
[18:43:56] <just_pink> yes
[18:44:17] <furrywolf> velocity mode or torque mode?
[18:44:29] <PetefromTn_> One thing I did was add some of those gas struts for my RF45 to help hold up the weight made the motor run easier and actually made the movement smoother
[18:44:34] <Roguish> just_pink: if it's tuned too hot (aggressive) it will continuously 'hunt' and pull lots of current, even while looking like it is sitting still.
[18:45:06] <furrywolf> either your drive is mis-tuned (velocity mode only), linuxcnc is mis-tuned, or you're picking up noise.
[18:45:27] <just_pink> I'm using the G320x
[18:45:29] <just_pink> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34-dc-servo-motor/4-axis-nema34-1150ozin-72v20a-psu-g320x-gecko-driver
[18:45:37] <Roguish> just_pink: drop the PID a bit. also, put a current meter on it to watch the current.
[18:45:56] <just_pink> about 200ma
[18:47:10] <furrywolf> ... for $1500 they can't take their own picture?
[18:47:39] <just_pink> hehe,,
[18:47:56] <just_pink> but this is what i have here.
[18:49:32] <just_pink> I'm in the middle of a job on the machine..
[18:50:36] <just_pink> so frustrating
[18:50:39] <Roguish> just_pink: is it sized right? Z axes are always a bit different, 'cause gravity works.
[18:51:10] <PetefromTn_> Roguish she has some rather large servos on there but I am not clear if it is direct drive or not
[18:51:13] <just_pink> the recomended motor for this machin is 850 OZ
[18:51:35] <just_pink> I have 1150 OZ
[18:51:38] <PetefromTn_> recommended by who?
[18:51:59] <just_pink> cnczone hoss etc..
[18:52:48] <PetefromTn_> just to be clear an 850 oz in is the same motor Industrial hobbies puts on their CNC mills and their millhead alone weighs more than your whole machine
[18:52:55] <Roguish> just_pink: is there any kind of counter balance on the Z? a dead weight or air cylinder? Example: my Bridgeport Series II knee is so heavy it has a built in air lift and needs at least 80psi just to hold it.
[18:53:26] <furrywolf> sometimes I'm glad my machine only has a quill. heh.
[18:53:47] <Roguish> direct drive? or any reduction? belt or gear or whatever.
[18:54:23] <furrywolf> I put 900ozin on my quill. :)
[18:54:40] <just_pink> even acordong to the torqe meter I need about 2N/m to rotate this axis
[18:55:12] <just_pink> 2N/M = 283.2 Oz/in
[18:55:25] * furrywolf suspects it's just mis-tuned
[18:55:31] <just_pink> the motor is rated to 1150 OZ/in
[18:56:47] <just_pink> 4 times bigger than necessary
[18:57:07] <furrywolf> more acceleration.
[18:57:28] <just_pink> I have 3 pot on the G320X
[18:57:48] <just_pink> *4
[18:57:51] <Roguish> just_pink: i agree with furrywolf, it's probably over tuned. but right now, put a fan on it to get through your job, then do a 're-tune'
[18:57:56] <just_pink> P I D T
[18:58:12] <furrywolf> so these drives take step and direction inputs?
[18:58:18] <just_pink> yes
[18:58:25] <furrywolf> then your pots need twiddling.
[18:58:31] <PetefromTn_> what is your power supply voltage rating?
[18:58:42] <just_pink> 72V 20A
[18:59:30] * furrywolf only has 65V 15A. bah! :P
[19:00:47] <just_pink> but which pot need to be tune?
[19:00:59] <just_pink> P? I? D? T?
[19:01:03] <just_pink> 4 pots
[19:02:03] <andypugh> If it’s hunting, that would probably be P.
[19:02:09] <PetefromTn_> there is a tuning manual for the geckos on their website and they usually come in the literature
[19:02:17] <andypugh> But bear in mind that motors do get hot.
[19:04:02] <just_pink> maybe i need to do lapping to the Z axis rail?
[19:05:52] <PetefromTn_> somethings wrong even if it is 1-1 direct drive that motor is MORE than enough to raise and lower that head with ease you have something going on either a tuning issue as said or maybe there is something wrong with the motor...
[19:06:04] <andypugh> If the head isn’t moving when the motor gets hot, then the rail friction (probably) isn’t part of the problem.
[19:06:36] <andypugh> 60C is hot, but not worryingly hot.
[19:06:51] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Just rewire your solar panels to the desired voltage/amperage and hope for "full sun" =)
[19:07:29] <Roguish> just_pink: go through the recommended tuning procedure long before any 'lapping'. and like andypugh stated, motors can run hot. but seriously, it's probably in the tuning...................... give it a go.
[19:07:41] <Jymmm> furrywolf: dont foget to add the treadmill for that added human power boost for those rough passes =)
[19:08:04] <PetefromTn_> something funny happened here at my house today...
[19:08:08] <andypugh> Class B mtors are good to 130C, Class F to 155C and there is even a class H that can run at a winding temp of 180C. That’s winding temp, not case temp, though.
[19:08:08] <just_pink> I try to do it.
[19:08:31] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: you shaved your butt and showed the neighbors?
[19:08:32] <just_pink> even with geacko representative over the phone,
[19:08:39] <PetefromTn_> our nice water and ice thru the door fridge started making a noise that sounded like a fan squeak squeaking
[19:08:51] <PetefromTn_> I figured it was dust or whatever in the fan
[19:09:02] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Your fridge had been colonised by penguins?
[19:09:11] <PetefromTn_> so we pulled it out and I blew the crap and crud all the hell outta there.
[19:09:16] <PetefromTn_> it was quite dusty
[19:09:26] <PetefromTn_> but the noise still was there
[19:09:26] <just_pink> this is bassicly the best that I can ever tune this motor (and I have no idea what I'm doing)
[19:09:34] * Jymmm waits for the punchline...
[19:09:54] <PetefromTn_> then after closer investigation we realized that the noise sounded like it was coming from the freezer
[19:10:22] <PetefromTn_> I thought great there is a fan motor going bad or needing oil that is buried in the innards of the freezer lining
[19:10:25] <andypugh> just_pink: “Best” tuning for position accuracy and response might be a bit too busy.
[19:10:41] <PetefromTn_> took out the whole damn ice maker and cleaned and checked everything defrosting stuff
[19:10:51] <just_pink> there is a way to call to a tecnition that can tune it??
[19:10:54] <PetefromTn_> got it all put back together and walked away
[19:11:04] <PetefromTn_> minutes later squeaking stars again
[19:11:15] <just_pink> someone here from NY?
[19:11:18] <PetefromTn_> about to pull my damn hair out because it is LOUD
[19:11:27] <andypugh> just_pink: Can you get a current clamp on the motor wires, and an oscilloscope?
[19:11:38] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/8bbY6HL.jpg
[19:11:38] <Roguish> PetefromTn: only solution.... move, quickly.
[19:11:41] <zeeshan> v jaw worked
[19:11:45] <zeeshan> and holy cow i got spectacular finish
[19:11:53] <zeeshan> im cutting steel at like 30 ipm
[19:11:57] <zeeshan> thats how it did it!
[19:11:58] <PetefromTn_> Listening it sounds like it MIGHT be coming from the door of the freezer near the water and ice dispenser
[19:12:01] <just_pink> andypugh: current clamp on DC...
[19:12:03] <andypugh> If you see the current rapidly reversing all the time, and reaching high values, then an over-aggressive tune is likely.
[19:12:28] <PetefromTn_> so I take that whole thing apart.... cleaned and checked everything....no noise...
[19:12:33] <just_pink> andypugh: I dont have an osiloscope :(
[19:12:47] <PetefromTn_> put it back together and a few minutes later squeaking starts again!!
[19:12:49] <just_pink> there is a way to rent one?
[19:12:55] <andypugh> DC current clamps exist
[19:13:00] <PetefromTn_> My wife says she swears it is inside the door
[19:13:16] <PetefromTn_> so I start taking the door apart again and the ice maker and water dispenser....
[19:13:24] <PetefromTn_> REALY getting annoyed now LOL
[19:13:30] <zeeshan> just_pink: i feel your pain
[19:13:31] <zeeshan> i dont have one either :{
[19:13:55] <zeeshan> i need one!
[19:14:17] <PetefromTn_> I remove the outer cover again and a TINY cricket comes out from under the plastic cover on the edge of the door.....!!!!
[19:14:33] <zeeshan> man i love rigid tapping
[19:14:37] <zeeshan> saves so much time
[19:14:39] <PetefromTn_> I was like you gotta be kidding me
[19:15:06] <PetefromTn_> put the cricket outside and reassembled the whole thing....no more squeaking thankfully LOL
[19:15:06] <just_pink> I have no Idea what to do :((
[19:15:07] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/360559023322
[19:15:07] <zeeshan> just_pink: buy me one
[19:15:21] <andypugh> (no idea if that is any good, but it’s certainly cheap)
[19:15:22] <Roguish> just_pink: check your vom. most will measure current up to 10A, unfused. be careful no to cook the vom.
[19:15:34] <PetefromTn_> just_pink do you not have the Gecko literature that came with the drives?
[19:16:01] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: Jiminy was probably glad that you finally got the message and let him out.
[19:16:07] <PetefromTn_> all you need is a tiny screwdriver
[19:16:37] <PetefromTn_> andypugh I know right....jiminy cricket needs to grab his little stick and move along to someone else's fridge LOL
[19:16:56] <just_pink> but there is no service that can come and fix it?
[19:17:18] <just_pink> I have the manual
[19:17:23] <just_pink> and..
[19:17:53] <andypugh> just_pink: There are people that specialise in control tuning, but I don’t know if they would work on a random machine.
[19:18:01] <just_pink> if I start to play with the pots, the motor start to fly all over and shaking..
[19:18:26] <PetefromTn_> http://www.geckodrive.com/support/application-notes/servo-drives/g320x-pid.html that is normal LOL
[19:18:35] <Roguish> just_pink: RTFM
[19:18:41] <PetefromTn_> tuning servos can be an adventure LOL
[19:19:14] <andypugh> The first thing to do is see if there really is a problem.
[19:19:18] <just_pink> I go throe this manual tons of times..
[19:19:31] <andypugh> And for that, I think you need to measure the servo current.
[19:19:47] <andypugh> just_pink: What controller hardware do you have?
[19:20:08] <just_pink> andypugh:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34-dc-servo-motor/4-axis-nema34-1150ozin-72v20a-psu-g320x-gecko-driver
[19:20:32] <zeeshan> anyone who has run a chamfer mill
[19:20:38] <zeeshan> can you help me optimize time
[19:20:48] <PetefromTn_> I had that EXACT same motor and driver on my RF45
[19:20:56] <zeeshan> its diameter ranges from .75 to 1.515
[19:21:08] <zeeshan> im running 320 sfm, 0.001 ipt
[19:21:11] <zeeshan> its really slow
[19:21:15] <andypugh> just_pink: I meant at the LinuxCNC end. Are you running parallel port of something Pico / Mesa?
[19:21:18] <zeeshan> can i run it faster
[19:21:57] <just_pink> C10
[19:22:01] <just_pink> LPT
[19:22:34] <just_pink> but It's happen just on ideling...
[19:22:39] <andypugh> Ah, OK. If you had a Mesa card I was going to suggest looking for an analogue input and logging current with Halscope
[19:23:18] <andypugh> Halscope would still be useful if you had encoder feedback back to LinuxCNC
[19:23:18] <just_pink> but the triver dont get ANY puls
[19:23:30] <just_pink> the cmputer is off
[19:23:39] <just_pink> no signals
[19:23:50] <just_pink> just the drives ON
[19:24:08] <andypugh> That doesn’t mean that the driver isn’t moving the motor up and down by tiny amounts at high speed and high current
[19:24:12] <just_pink> them the Z axis motor get hot
[19:24:29] <zeeshan> just_pink: servo drive?
[19:24:30] <zeeshan> or stepper?
[19:24:46] <just_pink> zeeshan: DC servo
[19:24:46] <andypugh> zeeshan: Looks like step/dir servo.
[19:24:58] <zeeshan> did you setup the current parameter correctly on the servo drive?
[19:24:59] <andypugh> So LinuxCNC thinks it’s a stepper
[19:25:21] <zeeshan> andypugh: sounds like mach sorcery
[19:26:34] <just_pink> one sec
[19:26:41] <just_pink> goint to check
[19:26:58] <andypugh> just_pink: You can see if it is the weight of the head by supprting the head on a sort-of seesaw so that it appears to weight less. Then see if the motor runs cooler.
[19:27:23] <just_pink> the loss the gib?
[19:27:29] <just_pink> to*
[19:27:29] <andypugh> I doubt that it is the current limit when the system is stationary.
[19:28:23] <andypugh> Loosening the gib would be an easier experiment than your proposal to lap the gib. (And I am not sure that lapping is ever the right answer, either)
[19:29:08] <just_pink> ok,
[19:29:10] <just_pink> the motor now is
[19:29:19] <zeeshan> it'd be pretty easy to find out how much current it is consuming
[19:29:22] <zeeshan> like someone else mentioned just hook up your multimeter in series
[19:29:23] <zeeshan> in the 10A section
[19:29:39] <just_pink> 33.6 C 92.5F
[19:30:26] <Tom_itx> maybe found the source of my 'noise'
[19:30:26] <just_pink> naybe to tune it without the machine?
[19:30:35] <just_pink> just on the table with no load?
[19:31:25] <andypugh> It is very hard to tune a “bare” motor. The load is very much part of the tuning.
[19:31:52] <andypugh> If you disconnected the motor with the tuning you have now I pretty much guarantee that it would oscillate
[19:32:16] <PetefromTn_> does it get hot when the PC is in control and the millhead is NOT moving at all like it apparently does when the PC is NOT in control?
[19:32:20] <andypugh> You might even find that it would jump off the table and break stuff.
[19:33:06] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: I think that in this case (step-dir) the two situations are identical.
[19:33:43] <andypugh> It’s either getting no pulses because the PC is off, or getting no pulses because the PC isn’t sending any.
[19:34:02] <just_pink> andypugh: in the tunid the motor act as crazy, mone up and down, jump - so scarry, - THIS IS WHY I WANT TO CALL TO A TECHNICIAN
[19:34:18] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: the motor get hor only on ideling
[19:34:37] <andypugh> That’s interesting.
[19:34:43] <PetefromTn_> generally you want to PREtune the motor off the machine to at least a point where it is not going crazy and then move it to the machine and fine tune it...
[19:35:31] <Tom_itx> anybody know approximately how many differential inputs you can pull up with one resistor divider?
[19:35:34] <PetefromTn_> sounds like if it is ONLY getting hot when it is idle that it might be tuned too tight and it is oscillating at high freq maybe causing it to get hot?
[19:35:40] <Tom_itx> for single sided input use
[19:36:02] <andypugh> just_pink: You could try this: Make a note of where the pots are now. Then try half the P and the rest at 0. That should be a very soft tune, but still in control.
[19:36:36] <andypugh> That will answer the question about whether it is tuning.
[19:36:55] <andypugh> But it might just be normal. 60C is too hot to touch, but not hot enough to trouble a motor.
[19:37:14] <PetefromTn_> to be honest I had to play and futz with my Geckos and that motor for a long time before I got it to work right and it actually seemed to change occasionally. It was a real PIA honestly...
[19:37:48] <andypugh> just_pink: You probably already know more about your system than a technician. And you are more interested in the result.
[19:39:23] <andypugh> (The situation that you are in, where you don’t know what the drives are actually doing) is why I prefer to put the control loop inside LinuxCNC. It might not give the same absolute performance sometimes, but you can at least see what is going on.
[19:39:35] <andypugh> And, unfortunately, I now need to sleep.
[19:41:57] <just_pink> I trying to finig the job... step by step.. to not lose homing..
[19:41:58] <just_pink> :(
[19:42:08] <furrywolf> then finish it?
[19:46:00] <just_pink> then that the motor out from the machine to place with ociloscope..
[19:49:53] <just_pink> take*
[19:50:21] <just_pink> sorrry too much stress..
[19:51:27] <just_pink> my next project
[19:51:29] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z32BUEaoAgE
[20:00:16] <toastydeath> derp
[20:08:14] <jdh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtq48VjrulE
[20:08:18] <jdh> some impressive chips
[20:12:02] <Tom_itx> meh, i could do that on my sherline :D
[20:12:25] <just_pink> FUUUCK
[20:12:49] <just_pink> Ok.. back to normal..
[20:13:10] <Tom_itx> ok why do they cut part of it dry and the rest with coolant?
[20:13:10] <just_pink> 1000mm/m 800RPM
[20:13:19] <jdh> just_pink: out of curiosity, why did you pick gecko servo drives?
[20:14:15] <just_pink> I get everithing from automationtechnologiesinc as a kit..
[20:14:46] <jdh> they have lots of kits
[20:16:16] <toastydeath> Tom_itx: depends on the insert material
[20:16:23] <jdh> they also sell mach, so....
[20:16:27] <just_pink> I've order the ball screw kit for the g0704 and the 4 axis servo kit
[20:16:27] <toastydeath> most high-heat inserts for hard milling cannot handle thermal shock
[20:17:16] <just_pink> everithnk work OK except og the over heating in the Z axis motor
[20:17:16] <jdh> which ball screw kit?
[20:17:36] <Tom_itx> i'll be darn if i can find the source of the noise on these inputs
[20:18:36] <just_pink> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g0704-kit/g0704-cnc-kit-set
[20:18:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/bitfiles/Screenshot-HAL%20Oscilloscope.png
[20:19:16] <Tom_itx> the noise is pretty much the same bit pattern on all channels
[20:20:23] <jdh> oh. I just made mine
[20:20:58] <just_pink> 12 holes from 40 - DONE
[20:21:19] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: disconnect your pendant and ground the input pin on the mesa board.
[20:21:38] <Tom_itx> the pendant is disconnected
[20:21:49] <Tom_itx> if i remove the wire on each input it goes away
[20:22:00] <Tom_itx> the selected channel seems to be silent as well
[20:22:19] <furrywolf> is there any way you're operating without pullup/pulldown resistors?
[20:22:21] <Tom_itx> i measure ~1.73v dc on the inputs
[20:22:29] <furrywolf> ok, so you are.
[20:22:42] <Tom_itx> it's differential inputs and i'm using a R divider on the / side
[20:23:09] <Tom_itx> i may have to add pullups to them i guess
[20:23:11] <furrywolf> with nothing connected, the inputs should be 3.3, 5, or 0, depending on what you pull them to...
[20:23:20] <Tom_itx> funny, it worked fine before
[20:23:42] <furrywolf> does the board have built-in pullups? could they have been disabled? or damaged?
[20:23:48] <Tom_itx> it's on a 7i47S no the 7i90
[20:23:53] <Tom_itx> not*
[20:24:05] <Tom_itx> they are new boards
[20:25:37] <furrywolf> yay typos on the first page of the manual. interfface. lol
[20:25:51] <furrywolf> which pins are you using?
[20:27:06] <furrywolf> it seems that board is intended for rs422, not general-purpose i/o.
[20:27:15] <furrywolf> could be it doesn't have pullups, and you have to add them.
[20:28:17] <furrywolf> it does seem to have termination resistors. you might enable them for the pins you're using, if you're using rs422 rx pins as general purpose inputs.
[21:03:50] <just_pink> http://9gag.com/gag/axG9RdK
[22:57:07] <zeeshan-mill> zzzz
