#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-08

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[00:16:20] <zeeshan|2> now i am
[00:18:32] <just_pink_> ??
[00:18:48] <renesis> doesnt furrywolf have a sherline?
[00:19:28] <renesis> how does that not fit into a living room, i fit a micromill into a bedroom
[00:19:53] <just_pink_> sherline is tiny
[00:19:55] <renesis> cat slept under it, like no kitty there is slag sometimes, but kitty does what it wanted
[00:21:28] <renesis> heh, i moved that mill in the trunk of my volvo 740, just loosened the column and laid flat, folded up the legs of the table it was bolted to, threw it in
[00:21:57] <renesis> in the scion hatchback its stupid easy to move, <3 taig tinymill
[00:23:18] <just_pink_> the g0704 was come in tons of part to the place that I mount it
[00:25:31] <renesis> you need to try that sentence again
[00:26:13] <just_pink_> renesis: you know about good pair of compasses?
[00:26:47] <renesis> for like, making circle scribes?
[00:27:06] <just_pink_> yes
[00:27:36] <just_pink_> i try one from a dollar store
[00:27:40] <just_pink_> JUNK
[00:28:04] <just_pink_> than i try metal ones from walmart - JUNK
[00:28:22] <XXCoder> walmart IS junk
[00:28:43] <just_pink_> i can spend days in walmart.
[00:28:55] <renesis> go to an art and engineering supply store
[00:29:25] <Mr_Sheesh> or a college bookstore
[00:29:43] <renesis> they usually have the best drafting stuff, office supply places might have something better than walmart and dollar store
[00:30:04] <XXCoder> or college that has art courses
[00:30:17] <renesis> prob more spendy
[00:30:21] <XXCoder> yes
[00:31:01] <just_pink_> mm what about link to some high quality brand?
[00:31:29] <just_pink_> go to a store it's so 20 century
[00:31:39] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-Precision-Student-Comfort-Compass/dp/B0006VZDKU/ref=lp_1069030_1_4?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1439010499&sr=1-4
[00:31:55] <renesis> their white erasers are the best, shrug
[00:32:50] <just_pink_> i have the pink easer of paper mate
[00:32:56] <just_pink_> the best ever!
[00:33:18] <renesis> i dont like pink =\
[00:33:21] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-Compass-Storage-559-09/dp/B0006VRJHA/ref=lp_1069030_1_14?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1439010499&sr=1-14
[00:34:14] <renesis> i dont even know how to use that shit, super advanced compass set
[00:36:47] <just_pink_> i'm use it to do drafting sketches. and i'm using the scriber to use the stock material bette.
[00:38:40] <just_pink_> what is this thing???
[00:38:42] <just_pink_> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/metrology-products/precision-measuring-tools/machinists-precision-shop-tools/Jack-Screws#currentPage=1&displayMode=grid&itemsPerPage=24&sortBy=wp/asc
[00:39:36] <renesis> http://www.amazon.com/%C2%BD-Divider-Compass-Adjustable-Caliper/dp/B00VUFYFAU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1439010897&sr=8-5&keywords=machinist+compass
[00:39:45] <renesis> ^ prob better for scribing
[00:40:31] <renesis> just_pink_: little jacks for setup and inspection fixtures?
[00:41:14] <just_pink_> renesis: intrastin
[00:42:48] <just_pink_> *interesting
[00:42:58] <just_pink_> 1am
[00:47:41] <just_pink_> 20 leds left
[01:26:55] <just_pink> so quiet here
[01:27:21] <zeeshan|2> working :-)
[01:27:26] <just_pink> on?
[01:27:36] <zeeshan|2> job
[01:27:37] <zeeshan|2> cam
[01:27:48] <XXCoder> shhhh
[01:28:09] <just_pink> hehe
[01:28:28] <just_pink> i just finish anather ring
[01:28:51] <just_pink> now I'm starting the last one
[01:28:58] <XXCoder> awesome
[01:29:02] <zeeshan|2> what ring
[01:29:29] <just_pink> LEDs ring..
[01:29:36] <just_pink> for the stack light..
[01:29:43] <just_pink> it use 18 rings
[01:29:44] <zeeshan|2> =P
[01:29:55] <just_pink> 180 leds
[01:31:21] <just_pink> XXCoder: what's going on with your machine?
[01:31:42] <XXCoder> not moving. lol bit sick
[01:31:51] <just_pink> why?
[01:32:53] <XXCoder> germs I guess? lol
[01:33:28] <just_pink> lol
[01:34:42] <just_pink> I mean if you sick you are at home = you have time to do your projerts :)
[01:37:54] <gkwhc> say, if you had access to a mid/large industrial grade CNC machine, what would you make?
[01:38:10] <XXCoder> just_pink: not when dizzy
[01:38:24] <XXCoder> gkwhc: depends on type
[01:38:33] <XXCoder> router can do stuff mill cant for examplke
[01:39:04] <just_pink> like what...
[01:39:10] <just_pink> .......
[01:39:30] <archivist> large sheet
[01:39:43] <just_pink> router can make also noise
[01:40:15] <mutley> and its a beautiful sunrise
[01:40:23] <XXCoder> just_pink: router is pretty primariarly for 2d projects but tend to have much bigger work space in X, Y than mills
[01:40:29] <XXCoder> usually short on Z
[01:40:33] <mutley> but wtf am i doing seeing it
[01:41:46] <just_pink> errr.. now i can do new door on my G0704..
[01:42:12] <just_pink> cant**
[01:42:32] <mutley> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxhugRKZ8g
[01:43:26] <just_pink> mutley: point?
[01:43:54] <mutley> just_pink: no point, just a groove
[01:44:37] <just_pink> 1963...
[01:44:46] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/6BGiPSi.png
[01:44:50] <zeeshan|2> long live mastercam
[01:44:57] <zeeshan|2> 20 min job
[01:45:03] <zeeshan|2> to cam that
[01:46:25] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: what is that?
[01:46:31] <zeeshan|2> not sure
[01:46:40] <zeeshan|2> looks like some hub
[01:46:53] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: and how to you know what is the ecomended feed rate to each tool?
[01:46:57] <gkwhc> XXCoder: hm i thought they can pretty much do the same things
[01:47:06] <XXCoder> gkwhc: sure
[01:47:09] <just_pink> and how much material to take..
[01:47:10] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: manufacture spec sheets is a good start
[01:47:16] <XXCoder> BIG router can mill a motor block
[01:47:17] <zeeshan|2> for all that info
[01:47:22] <XXCoder> but why? mill can do it better
[01:47:35] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: what kind of end mill do you have?
[01:47:40] <zeeshan|2> what brand
[01:47:41] <XXCoder> most mills cannot mill 4'x8' sheet
[01:47:47] <XXCoder> but good sized routers can
[01:48:01] <XXCoder> it comes down to what its best for.
[01:48:02] <just_pink> cheap grizzlly
[01:49:33] <gkwhc> XXCoder: true. most industrial machines like these (http://www.automation-drive.com/EX/05-14-14/Quaser_Milling_Vmc_CNC_Machine.jpg) are mills right?
[01:49:39] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: http://www.grizzly.com/products/20-pc-2-4-Flute-TiN-End-Mill-Set/G9760
[01:49:43] <XXCoder> gkwhc: yeah
[01:49:49] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: cant help you there =/
[01:50:03] <gkwhc> they can do a whole lot
[01:50:22] <XXCoder> good luck fitting 4'x8' sheet in that though lol
[01:51:02] <gkwhc> my friend has access to one and we can't think of anything to mill
[01:51:03] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: manufacturers that make high quality tools will have info like this:
[01:51:04] <zeeshan|2> http://www2.coromant.sandvik.com/coromant/pdf/CoroKey_2006/eng/Page153_155.pdf
[01:51:30] <zeeshan|2> if you look at page 1 it tells you depending on what inserrt size you have
[01:51:34] <XXCoder> gkwhc: well
[01:51:41] <zeeshan|2> you can take 10mm depth of cut for example
[01:51:41] <XXCoder> maybe just design fun stuff
[01:51:47] <zeeshan|2> @ 0.6mm / tooth
[01:51:52] <XXCoder> like a stirling motor lol (always wanted one dammit)
[01:51:56] <zeeshan|2> it goes mor einto detail in the second page
[01:52:03] <zeeshan|2> and tells you recommended cutting speed
[01:53:35] <gkwhc> seems like those big boys are used for making airplane parts or other machine parts lol
[01:54:16] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: but 3/8 generic hss 2 flute end mill on aluminum..
[01:54:32] <zeeshan|2> a number that works for me for hss
[01:54:32] <XXCoder> gkwhc: yeah
[01:54:34] <zeeshan|2> is 250 sfm
[01:54:42] <zeeshan|2> sfm = surface feet per minute
[01:55:02] <zeeshan|2> and 0.002 inch per tooth feed
[01:55:04] <XXCoder> gkwhc: it is pretty amazing how large percent parts the company I work at make for boeing
[01:55:12] <XXCoder> 85% if I recall
[01:55:14] <zeeshan|2> to convert that to machine numbers you use these formulas:
[01:55:42] <just_pink> ?
[01:55:43] <zeeshan|2> rpm = 4 *cutting speed / diameter of tool = 4 * 250 / (3/8) = 2666 rpm
[01:56:11] <gkwhc> XXCoder: oh wow thats quite a big part of the business then
[01:56:21] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: i can go up to 1000 rpm
[01:56:39] <gkwhc> XXCoder: what kind of parts do you guys make, if you dont mind me asking?
[01:56:44] <XXCoder> yeah. I dunno where other 15% is. I have worked on non-boeing parts only once
[01:56:54] <archivist> I make small parts
[01:56:57] <XXCoder> lol lots cheap parts actually. im still new
[01:56:59] <zeeshan|2> feed = # of teeth * rpm * feed per tooth = 2 * 2666 * 0.002 = 10.6 inches per minute
[01:57:13] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: that is fine, that means you're just not running at the ideal sfm
[01:57:17] <zeeshan|2> its not a big deal with hss,
[01:57:19] <zeeshan|2> but a big deal with carbide
[01:57:33] <gkwhc> XXCoder: like boxes? lol
[01:57:35] <archivist> gkwhc, http://gears.archivist.info/gears/IMG_1214_hires.JPG
[01:57:45] <XXCoder> gkwhc: nah, like hose guide
[01:57:53] <XXCoder> end caps
[01:57:56] <XXCoder> so on
[01:59:19] <just_pink> archivist: you and your big giant matchstick..
[01:59:29] <gkwhc> XXCoder: oh interesting. you'd think Boeing would have capabilities to do it themselves lol
[01:59:37] <XXCoder> gkwhc: they do. easily.
[01:59:46] <XXCoder> gkwhc: but there is 35 million parts per plane
[02:00:02] <XXCoder> gkwhc: they really need to farm out easier to make parts
[02:00:28] <XXCoder> 35 million is rough guess, I know its in quite large number of millions
[02:01:02] <gkwhc> good point
[02:01:09] <just_pink> I'm hungry
[02:02:02] <just_pink> i need a gcode that make food
[02:02:17] <XXCoder> there is food 3d printers out there
[02:02:21] <XXCoder> candyfab for one
[02:02:42] <archivist> or a slave
[02:03:43] <XXCoder> found one site, 777 has 3 million parts
[02:03:58] <XXCoder> thats only one model
[02:05:26] <just_pink> XXCoder: but some of tham are of the shelf like fastners, cables.. etc..
[02:05:44] <XXCoder> just_pink: surpising we make nuts for em too
[02:06:02] <XXCoder> some of... odd sized ones but there is many standard looking ones too
[02:06:29] <just_pink> why????
[02:06:48] <XXCoder> specific material needs. cant say more
[02:06:52] <XXCoder> other needs too
[02:08:29] <just_pink> XXCoder: there is no of the shelf parts in 777???????
[02:08:40] <XXCoder> actually didnt say that
[02:08:56] <XXCoder> just said there is suprising seemly standard parts that we make for em
[02:09:06] <XXCoder> tons unique parts of course but nuts too
[02:09:43] <XXCoder> if they need completely standard steel nut for example
[02:09:48] <XXCoder> it IS probably off the shelf
[02:09:50] <just_pink> but if the nut is from specials material it's not standart..
[02:09:58] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:10:59] <just_pink> I goning to put some water for pasta :)
[02:12:50] <just_pink> back..
[02:13:44] <XXCoder> so wheres my pasta
[02:14:41] <just_pink> wating to the water..
[02:14:52] <XXCoder> lol
[02:17:16] <just_pink> SpeedEvil: somthing wrong with your connectin..
[02:19:05] <Deejay> moin
[02:20:54] <just_pink> moring!
[02:20:56] <Deejay> +n
[02:20:56] <Deejay> hi just_pink
[02:21:21] <just_pink> I'm working on the last ring for the stack light
[02:23:29] <just_pink> 3
[02:32:19] <just_pink> XXCoder: PASTA!
[02:32:29] <XXCoder> lol
[02:32:33] <just_pink> hot
[02:34:33] <archivist> pasta la vista baby
[02:35:38] <just_pink> hehe
[02:54:45] <fenn> hmm using ER11 straight shank collet chuck as a high speed spindle is an intriguing idea
[02:55:40] <fenn> and it scales to different sizes
[02:58:12] <fenn> i was thinking about using a dewalt DWP611 router but then i'd also have to buy collets for it and it's noisy
[02:58:58] <just_pink> fenn: I want it for small jobs..
[03:07:08] <archivist> fenn, http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
[03:07:42] <fenn> archivist: that's awesome
[03:08:14] <archivist> and simple
[03:08:26] <fenn> and pink :P
[03:11:55] <just_pink> where i ccan get the parts?
[03:12:59] <archivist> ebay
[03:13:35] <just_pink> i dont know what to loking for..
[03:13:58] <just_pink> and how you take the motor apart..
[03:14:48] <archivist> it is something you learn by doing, if you break one use another
[03:15:15] <fenn> first search result on ebay for "er16 8mm shank" http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER16-8MM-STRAIGHT-SHANK-COLLET-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-TOOL-WORKHOLDING-F88-/151760376048
[03:17:37] <just_pink> why he use washers?
[03:17:56] <fenn> i don't know much about brushless airplane motors but this looks like it might work http://www.ebay.com/itm/560kv-Brushless-Outrunner-Motor-w-8mm-prop-adapter-for-large-55-Python-Airplane-/311399351561
[03:18:27] <fenn> they are spring washers, it's like a stiff spring
[03:19:32] <just_pink> why you need it in the spindle..
[03:20:10] <archivist> force the bearings to a known state, no play
[03:21:24] <fenn> the spindle will heat up and expand in operation. if you didn't have a spring it would either break the bearings from too much force, or loosen when the spindle cooled down
[03:21:52] <fenn> i guess
[03:22:26] <just_pink> it's not make it much more noisy?
[03:22:28] <fenn> i could see 1 or 2 spring washers but i think 8 is too many
[03:23:31] <archivist> those are very hight rate springs, you need more to reduce the rate
[03:24:29] <fenn> but there is like 16mm of travel
[03:24:33] <just_pink> what about somthing like that http://i.imgur.com/QcU5KFc.png
[03:24:39] <archivist> exceedingly small travel per spring, I have a thing here with about 40 on it
[03:25:36] <archivist> fenn they never squash flat, only a few thou at most per spring
[03:26:24] <fenn> just_pink: yeah that's the same general idea we are talking about now, but the motor is mounted directly to the shaft so you don't need separate bearings and a coupler
[03:26:51] <fenn> i would use a timing belt instead of a coupler
[03:27:59] <just_pink> fenn: but i want to mount it to R8 holder
[03:30:03] <fenn> then you definitely need a timing belt to get the rpm high enough
[03:30:26] <fenn> or some kind of gearing or belts or a friction wheel
[03:31:57] <just_pink> fenn: but with the correct motor I will get enough rpm drirect drive..
[03:33:11] <fenn> oh i thought you meant driving it from the milling machine spindle
[03:33:24] <just_pink> no..
[03:34:24] <just_pink> fenn: http://www.airturbinetools.com/spindles/specs/602js.html
[03:34:30] <just_pink> but electric
[03:35:14] <archivist> balancing becomes very important at high speeds
[03:36:19] <fenn> i wonder is there some pre-made auto balancing ring with loose ball bearings and thick oil inside
[03:36:28] <fenn> like in a tumble clothes dryer
[03:36:46] <archivist> look at what the homebrew model jet engine makers use to balance their turbines
[03:38:24] <just_pink> archivist: do you have an idea?
[03:39:14] <just_pink> how to make a hosing for the bearings
[03:39:33] <archivist> turn on a lathe
[03:40:25] <just_pink> no lathe :(
[03:40:45] <archivist> that is your next project then :)
[03:41:03] <archivist> make lathe then anything
[03:41:47] <just_pink> http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-6-Micro-Metal-Lathe/G0745
[03:41:47] <XXCoder> I once read that once you has lathe you can make everytjing else
[03:42:01] <XXCoder> dunno if true
[03:42:03] <fenn> it's a cute story but not really true
[03:42:23] <just_pink> what do you mean?
[03:42:26] <fenn> the idea is that a lathe can bore its own headstock and thus bootstrap from crude bearings to precision bearings
[03:42:38] <XXCoder> 350 bucks not bad
[03:43:14] <fenn> but you still have to actually build everything the hard way, and if you're building from commonly available parts you'd be better off starting with a horizontal mill and pretend it's a lathe
[03:43:32] <XXCoder> fenn: interesting
[03:43:50] <archivist> or get a second hand industrial lathe
[03:43:56] <XXCoder> I also found a page where you can build really shitty lathe with drill, then use shitty lathe to make good one
[03:44:06] <XXCoder> but I never could find it since
[03:44:13] * fenn built a lathe from scratch
[03:44:21] <XXCoder> using a lathe?
[03:44:32] <fenn> using a drill press and back yard foundry
[03:44:43] <XXCoder> interesting
[03:44:55] <archivist> I made my mill from an old lathe
[03:45:02] <XXCoder> there is a project to make lathe out of 80/20
[03:45:14] <XXCoder> not large one
[03:45:16] <fenn> dumb
[03:45:23] * fenn hates 80/20
[03:45:33] <fenn> get a tube of structural steel
[03:46:15] <archivist> extrusions are not flat or straight unless machined
[03:46:33] <fenn> also in the end it's aluminum, which is not very stiff
[03:46:59] <XXCoder> yeah if I recall guy said it was good for wood and alum only
[03:47:05] <XXCoder> steel would probably twist it a little
[03:48:02] <archivist> stiffness comes from shape and form, often these extrusion designs are just wrong
[03:51:30] <just_pink> 18 rings! DONE!!
[03:52:06] <XXCoder> way to go
[03:52:24] <XXCoder> archivist: one site claims their design for 8020 cnc router can mill steel
[03:52:32] <XXCoder> it does look tough but I has doubts
[03:52:50] <fenn> need more parameters. a dremel can "mill steel"
[03:52:51] <just_pink> now i'm working on conneting the 6 red ring together
[03:53:02] <XXCoder> http://www.8020cnc.com/build%20CNC%20machine
[03:53:05] <archivist> if the frame has the correct form
[03:54:04] <XXCoder> check out that link archivist
[03:54:26] <archivist> must try harder :)
[03:54:53] <XXCoder> I dont really like that design
[03:54:58] <XXCoder> I like other one 3'x4' one
[03:55:00] <fenn> i could understand if 80/20 were cheaper, but you can just buy an actual machine tool for less than the price of materials
[03:55:03] <archivist> yet another wood router design
[03:55:16] <XXCoder> fenn: exactly why I went for chinese router
[03:55:33] <XXCoder> 8020 is cheap if you live NEAR source
[03:55:40] <XXCoder> shipping is killer otherwise
[03:55:43] <fenn> i think it's expensive everywhere
[03:56:17] <XXCoder> for example 2020 80/20 10 feet is around $150 or so? but shipping is $200+
[03:56:19] <archivist> I use solid aluminium not extrusion
[03:56:56] <XXCoder> umm
[03:57:03] <XXCoder> seems amazon ones are on sale or something
[03:57:11] <XXCoder> hold on
[03:57:11] <just_pink> XXCoder: I get my from fastenal
[03:57:46] <XXCoder> knew it, yeah still quite high $148 bucks for 3030 97"
[03:58:02] <fenn> 2020 is tiny
[03:58:08] <XXCoder> $43 shipping I guess I misremembered or something
[03:58:16] <XXCoder> fenn yeah but I know even tinier ones lol
[03:58:34] <fenn> oh i see some people refer to 2"x2" as 2020 and some people refer to 20mm x 20mm as 2020
[03:59:09] <XXCoder> look at series, 10 series is inch
[03:59:14] <XXCoder> 15 series is 1.5 inch
[03:59:19] <XXCoder> 30 series is 30 mm
[03:59:38] <fenn> no comment
[04:00:12] <XXCoder> finally found it
[04:00:13] <XXCoder> http://www.nanobeam.us/
[04:00:37] <fenn> millibeam
[04:00:38] <XXCoder> archivist: you probably can build cnc mill to make your gears with those.
[04:00:40] <XXCoder> so small.
[04:00:45] <just_pink> https://www.fastenal.com/products/raw-materials/extruded-t-slot-bars-accessories/extruded-t-slot-bars?term=80%2F20&sortby=wholesaleprice&sortdir=ascending&r=~|categoryl1:%22600930%20Raw%20Materials%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22602694%20Extruded%20T-Slot%20Bars%209and%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22602693%20Extruded%20T-Slot%20Bars%22|~%20~|attrlength:999999999|~%20~|sattr01:^30mm$|~
[04:01:12] <just_pink> 58.21
[04:01:17] <XXCoder> just_pink: think your url is so long it got cut off
[04:01:24] <just_pink> with tax 60..
[04:01:27] <XXCoder> use url shortener like goo.gl
[04:01:56] <just_pink> https://goo.gl/exGrNk
[04:02:26] <XXCoder> 4 meters thats oretty dang long
[04:02:31] <archivist> XXCoder, could but would not
[04:02:41] <XXCoder> lol
[04:02:56] <archivist> I prefer the structure to be iron
[04:03:15] <XXCoder> too bad nobody makes iron versions of those.
[04:03:15] <just_pink> XXCoder: go with granit
[04:03:21] <XXCoder> extrusion iron
[04:03:39] <archivist> make the right shape castings
[04:03:41] <XXCoder> I do want to buy those nano stuff but only for fun not machinist stuff
[04:04:27] <just_pink> http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-12-x-2-Granite-Surface-Plate-No-Ledge/G9649
[04:04:43] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Cn0WRXPKs
[04:05:12] <fenn> tapping holes just doesn't seem difficult enough to justify all the compromises t-slot introduces to the design
[04:05:58] <XXCoder> just_pink: there is guides on how to make your own epoxy granite using home improvement store stuff
[04:06:07] <XXCoder> only part thats hard and expensive is epoxy itself
[04:06:12] <fenn> if you're super anti-tapping you can glue nuts to the inside of the structural tubing
[04:06:20] <XXCoder> awesome video though
[04:06:35] <just_pink> scroll to 6:50
[04:06:46] <XXCoder> nah watching entire video lol
[04:07:26] <just_pink> hehe..
[04:07:38] <XXCoder> 2 old guys in arpons
[04:07:51] <XXCoder> is film silent?
[04:08:08] <fenn> yes it's silent, with classical music
[04:08:15] <XXCoder> no wonder no autocaption
[04:08:26] <fenn> those guys already have all the nice toys, it's unfair
[04:08:52] <just_pink> XXCoder: just regular cnc porn..
[04:09:11] <XXCoder> fenn: yeah its hard to bootstrip out of zero machines
[04:09:34] <XXCoder> easy, good, cheap
[04:09:36] <XXCoder> choose 2
[04:10:27] <XXCoder> I do like watching people ply their skill
[04:10:36] <just_pink> my first cnc was..
[04:11:05] <just_pink> to embeasing..
[04:11:45] <XXCoder> well irc law states you must show it now
[04:11:49] <XXCoder> heh kidding
[04:11:57] <fenn> heh i have downloaded that to a folder named "machine porn"
[04:12:01] <just_pink> ok
[04:12:09] <just_pink> it is junk
[04:12:20] <just_pink> glue with jb weld
[04:12:37] <just_pink> also some soldering
[04:13:06] <XXCoder> it worked eh?
[04:13:58] <just_pink> mmm this is good question..
[04:14:04] <XXCoder> small Surface is surpising cheap
[04:14:09] <just_pink> it's moved..
[04:16:56] <just_pink> 3 rings connected
[04:17:04] <just_pink> 3 more to compleat
[04:19:37] <fenn> some pictures of my scratch-built lathe: (click on links) http://fennetic.net/gingery/lathe_modifications.html
[04:20:00] <just_pink> 4
[04:20:31] <just_pink> fenn: no pics - so 1997
[04:20:40] <fenn> more like 2007
[04:20:54] <XXCoder> 90s called
[04:20:58] <fenn> kodak digital camera
[04:21:00] <XXCoder> they like the site
[04:21:04] <just_pink> 2007 you had pics..
[04:21:42] <XXCoder> welcome to pre-html http://fennetic.net/gingery/lathe_parts.html
[04:21:44] <XXCoder> heh
[04:22:12] <fenn> i just noticed that, not sure what went wrong there
[04:22:21] <fenn> it's exported from a spreadsheet
[04:22:40] <archivist> wrong bear http://fennetic.net/gingery/whitworth.html
[04:24:10] <XXCoder> site is hard to read
[04:24:30] <XXCoder> I know youre not a web monkey
[04:24:37] <XXCoder> but you probably can polish site a little
[04:24:37] <fenn> i am a web monkey
[04:24:44] <XXCoder> bit of formatting
[04:24:45] <fenn> it's abandoned :P
[04:24:49] <XXCoder> ah
[04:25:38] <fenn> my web host doesn't want me running php because of security vulnerabilities so i scraped it with wget and can't really modify it now
[04:26:37] <fenn> also i don't have a shop or tools atm so that's a higher priority
[04:26:54] * fenn wastes more time on irc...
[04:27:15] <just_pink> last ring
[04:27:36] <fenn> why do people hate plain html so much
[04:27:44] <fenn> it works, it's fast, it's accessible
[04:27:50] <XXCoder> fenn: I dont hate it
[04:27:56] <archivist> nothinh wrong with html or php
[04:28:25] <archivist> my php produces html :)
[04:30:37] <fenn> your php html preprocessor preprocesses html from php?
[04:30:38] <XXCoder> my html produces php
[04:30:49] <XXCoder> and my php produces web server
[04:31:00] <archivist> the blanket blaming of "any language" for security problems is also a mistake
[04:31:16] <fenn> no, php is especially bad about security and deserves the blame
[04:31:49] <archivist> the idiots using it incorrectly are to blame not the language
[04:33:31] <fenn> lately i have been using ikiwiki which is a web-editable git repository that generates static html when you git push to it
[04:33:57] <fenn> it defaults to using markdown which i have mixed feelings about
[04:34:52] <just_pink> DONE
[04:35:39] <just_pink> so annoying project
[04:36:52] <fenn> just_pink: now you should make a stack light for the linuxcnc buildbot so the devs know when their code failed to compile
[04:37:11] <just_pink> no
[04:37:30] <XXCoder> lol
[04:37:45] <just_pink> I'm not shure yeh how to nount it on the machine..
[04:38:01] <fenn> on the outside of the enclosure
[04:38:19] <XXCoder> below spindle
[04:38:33] <XXCoder> better: right on stock
[04:38:38] <XXCoder> heh kidding
[04:38:43] <just_pink> what?
[04:38:43] <Sync_> fenn: why use a timing belt
[04:38:47] <Sync_> they only are noisy
[04:38:49] <just_pink> LOL
[04:38:55] <Sync_> use a multi v belt
[04:39:01] <fenn> timing belts are more efficient
[04:39:45] <fenn> i didn't think about noise from the timing belt...
[04:42:20] <fenn> i don't know how to search for small multi-v belts
[04:43:59] <Sync_> fenn: why do you think a timing belt is more efficient?
[04:44:34] <fenn> because there is no friction from the belt wedging into and out of a tapered groove
[04:44:50] <Sync_> in most applications V and synchronous are about the same
[04:45:22] <Sync_> V does slip, yes, but it is not less efficient
[04:45:35] <fenn> "V-belt drive achieves a maximum efficiency of 94% and falls off slightly at high torques with a dramatic decline at low torques. In contrast, the synchronous belt offers a uniform efficiency of almost 98% over a broad range of torque values."
[04:45:48] <fenn> so it probably doesn't matter in this case
[04:45:51] <Sync_> http://www.clark-transmission.com/images/pdf/carlisle/energy_loss_and_belt_efficiency.pdf
[04:45:57] <Sync_> look at the tables with real world values
[04:46:10] <Sync_> reflects about my experience with belts
[04:46:47] <Sync_> but for spindles and such you almost always want V
[04:46:52] <Sync_> as they run smoother and quieter
[04:47:45] <fenn> ok
[04:49:16] <fenn> that paper is testing with a 150hp motor
[04:52:19] <Sync_> so?
[04:52:48] <fenn> we are talking about a dremel motor replacement
[04:53:17] <XXCoder> that's way down the scale
[04:53:37] <fenn> what does "cog" vs "wrapped" mean?
[04:54:03] <fenn> oh nevermind it's whether the belt has notches cut into it
[04:56:08] <fenn> i have seen small v-ribbed belts on sewing machines and the like, but i don't know what to call that and all my search results are for car engines
[04:56:25] <XXCoder> grooved beklts?
[04:56:46] <just_pink> Project DONE!
[04:56:56] <just_pink> SOOO nice!
[04:57:08] <XXCoder> yay! now make 2 for me ;)
[04:57:29] <just_pink> XXCoder: first you need a cnc..
[04:57:35] <XXCoder> lol
[04:57:54] <just_pink> I will make you mini version..
[04:58:10] <XXCoder> nah can make it myself
[04:58:15] * SpeedEvil sighs at context.
[04:58:16] <XXCoder> leds is pretty simple
[04:58:31] <SpeedEvil> I've wondered about taking a standard RC motor with an 8mm shaft and pressing it out
[04:58:50] <XXCoder> ??
[04:58:57] <fenn> tor issues
[04:59:04] <XXCoder> ah
[04:59:15] <XXCoder> so pressing put
[04:59:17] <XXCoder> out
[04:59:50] <fenn> SpeedEvil: are you talking about http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
[04:59:57] <just_pink> to take a pic befor assmble?
[05:00:22] <SpeedEvil> fenn: no
[05:00:47] <Sync_> fenn: a common belt is called pj
[05:00:53] <just_pink> SpeedEvil: your user connect and disconnect tons of tims..
[05:01:29] <SpeedEvil> yes - fixed now - sorry
[05:01:30] <SpeedEvil> http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28503__Turnigy_SK3_Fandrive_Brushless_EDF_Motor_3968_1500KV_8S_90mm_EDF_.html
[05:01:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER11-8MM-STRAIGHT-SHANK-COLLET-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-TOOL-WORKHOLDING-D66-/151515712309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item23470a4b35
[05:02:12] <Sync_> http://www.optibelt.com/fileadmin/power_transmission/service/dokumentation/TH_RB_GB_414771.pdf fenn
[05:04:11] <SpeedEvil> The rigidity is of course perhaps questionable.
[05:04:27] <SpeedEvil> Even if you add a couple of bearings outboard of the motor.
[05:04:42] <SpeedEvil> But for 'better than dremel' it should be fine
[05:04:43] <fenn> 3000W is more than a standard "heavy duty" outlet
[05:04:59] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[05:05:09] <SpeedEvil> That's mostly set by torque
[05:05:14] <fenn> do these need crazy amounts of fan cooling?
[05:05:31] <XXCoder> heh my grinder mill needs 500w
[05:05:36] <XXCoder> that is huge wattage
[05:05:41] <XXCoder> 3000w
[05:05:53] <SpeedEvil> a fair amount, yes - but ratehr less cooling at - probably 500W max
[05:08:01] <Sync_> they cannot sustain that power forever
[05:08:13] <SpeedEvil> They can't do 3000W forever - no.
[05:08:18] <SpeedEvil> 2000W - yes.
[05:08:37] <SpeedEvil> (with adequate cooling)
[05:08:56] <XXCoder> water cooled
[05:10:23] <SpeedEvil> http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__31677__Turnigy_AquaStar_4084_1050KV_Water_Cooled_Brushless_Motor.html
[05:11:05] <SpeedEvil> http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24853__Turnigy_AquaStar_T20_3T_730KV_1280KV_Water_Cooled_Brushless_Motor.html - rather
[05:11:19] <SpeedEvil> These are oversized - for the 8mm shaft
[05:11:43] <fenn> i figured 8mm was because people had lots of skate bearings
[05:11:57] <XXCoder> you can buy 100 for pretty cheap
[05:12:06] <XXCoder> I dont recall price but it was opretty shocking low
[05:12:12] <fenn> the water cooled version is just a sleeve that goes around the motor
[05:12:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[05:12:33] <XXCoder> 46 buck http://www.amazon.com/608-ZZ-Skateboard-Bearing-8x22x7-Shielded/dp/B0045F9LAG
[05:12:47] <XXCoder> so many that you can make rails out of em
[05:12:54] <fenn> i guess not having to make the water cooled sleeve is worth $20
[05:12:58] <SpeedEvil> 8mm is the bare minimum for a shaft which can take a sane sized tool.
[05:13:18] <XXCoder> I need to get 8 mm sleeve for my mill
[05:13:22] <XXCoder> I got 6 mm one
[05:13:37] <XXCoder> er11 does fit my mill shaft but not sure if it would be safe lol
[05:13:39] <XXCoder> 27k rpm
[05:14:32] <XXCoder> I wonder if it is really possible to make good rails with skate bearings lol
[05:15:01] <SpeedEvil> Depends how you define good.
[05:16:13] <SpeedEvil> In many ways - they're not bad - if clean and lubricated
[05:16:20] <XXCoder> dunno its not even well defined idea
[05:18:37] <Sync_> I don't think they are worth the hassle
[05:18:47] <Sync_> linear rails are cheap enough
[05:19:04] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:19:14] <XXCoder> same time if guy was former skates repairman... lol
[05:20:26] <fenn> what is the difference between an "electronic speed controller" for RC planes and a VFD?
[05:20:37] <archivist> linear rails are only as straight in one plane as the object they are mounted on, the other on the screws and the fitters abilities
[05:20:38] <SpeedEvil> None
[05:21:05] <SpeedEvil> fenn: Except ESCs are DC in, and mostly squarewave 3-phase out, and 50hz PWM in
[05:21:57] <SpeedEvil> The 'right' way is certainly to do something like the above referred spindle using bits of a motor, not just press a new shaft in.
[05:21:57] <archivist> one is low voltage very BLDC designed, the other at much higher voltages
[05:22:23] <SpeedEvil> Oh - no isolation too
[05:22:39] <Sync_> the feed back is also very different usually
[05:22:48] <Sync_> as with 6 step modulation one phase will be left alone
[05:22:55] <archivist> not a lot if any isolation in a vfd either
[05:23:04] <Sync_> so you can look for commutation there
[05:23:16] <Sync_> which you'd need to do in the dead time with a vfd
[05:26:06] <archivist> another spindle I have in my bookmarks http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/112743-diy-spindle-idea-2.html
[05:26:54] <archivist> http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
[05:28:45] <fenn> saving that for later in the bootstrap process
[05:30:51] <archivist> that last one uses a wave spring for the endfloat
[05:31:58] <archivist> I saved them in my cnc round tuits folder :)
[05:33:14] <XXCoder> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/5/0/436750_v1.jpg wonder if it was successful product,
[05:35:14] <Sync_> I wonder why he is overconstraining the spindle
[05:38:59] <archivist> common to use a pair close to nose and one at the rear for precision hight speed
[05:40:11] <SpeedEvil> Once you get close to resonance - you can't really assume the shaft is ideally rigid
[05:40:25] <archivist> pre load the pair for 0 play, and the rear one has a wave spring or something to remove any endfloat and allow expansion
[05:42:00] <archivist> I would say the chuck is a bit too far forward of the bearings, nice looks but a bit bendy
[05:51:46] <Sync_> yes but he is using another angular contact bearing
[05:52:02] <Sync_> usually I have seen deep groove there
[05:52:32] <Sync_> and the rear bearing is fully locked
[05:55:22] <fenn> neat little lathe retrofit project http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/emcocompact6/
[05:58:47] <Sync_> all those people refilling the screws :/
[06:11:38] <fenn> yes send me your worn screws instead, i'll properly dispose of them :)
[06:12:21] <XXCoder> refill screws
[06:12:44] <XXCoder> so, how much per gallon do screws need? heh
[06:24:15] <jthornton> finally got the plotter working again... 4 new print heads later
[06:24:44] <XXCoder> how did you break 4
[06:24:58] <jthornton> didn't use it for a year or more
[06:25:13] <SpeedEvil> Trying to use them as end-mills
[06:25:23] <SpeedEvil> I have a printer like that
[06:26:05] <jthornton> this is a HP designjet 500 24" wide roll plotter
[06:41:44] <jthornton> now if I can figure out how to get backuppc to backup the computer it lives on I'd have a full backup of everything
[07:22:31] <CaptHindsight> max milling paraffin feed rate ~3 ft/min, max polypropylene feed rate ~1600ft/min
[07:22:46] <XXCoder> max wax feed? lol
[07:23:55] <SpeedEvil> 'just push the tool through sideways at max speed'
[07:24:01] <SpeedEvil> RPM?
[07:24:26] <CaptHindsight> the other trade off is that wax is reusable and the PP is one time only, can be a good thing or a bad thing
[07:25:03] <SpeedEvil> I would link to that 'making a PP mallet out of bottles' thing if I cared.
[07:25:12] <SpeedEvil> But yes - wax is way easier
[07:25:18] <XXCoder> new idea - cnc milled candles
[07:25:30] <CaptHindsight> wax is easily harmed by handling or improper storage, PP not so much
[07:25:33] <XXCoder> 3d printer better probably
[07:25:47] <XXCoder> anyway going bed laters
[07:26:01] <CaptHindsight> 3d printer what?
[07:26:19] <XXCoder> wax printer
[07:26:29] <CaptHindsight> would have to be inkjet
[07:26:35] <XXCoder> honestly molds would be better but great for one offs lol
[07:26:45] <XXCoder> anyway later
[07:26:54] <CaptHindsight> still have to make the molds
[07:27:02] <CaptHindsight> you're in a loop
[07:27:25] <CaptHindsight> probably lack of sleep, g-nite
[07:29:53] <CaptHindsight> surprisingly there is little research on machining food grade contact materials
[07:30:13] <CaptHindsight> besides Aluminum
[07:35:45] <CaptHindsight> most articles on machinable wax are about adding non-food grade polymers to rate the Tg and hardness
[07:35:59] <CaptHindsight> rate/raise
[07:39:05] <fenn> combine wax and LDPE to make machinable wax, stores and handles better because higher tensile strength and melting point
[07:40:03] <fenn> if you combine two food grade materials they're still food grade, right?
[07:41:09] <archivist> possibly not
[07:41:14] <fenn> shh
[07:41:23] <archivist> chemistry can be strange
[07:43:54] <CaptHindsight> machinable fruit, not so much at 20 C, but much more easily at ~0 C
[07:44:09] <CaptHindsight> same for dairy
[07:48:01] <CaptHindsight> then there is also additive manufacturing that requires some binder like carrageenan or gelatin to hold it together (dependent on serving temp) vs clever cutting and milling of raw product
[07:51:50] <CaptHindsight> sounds trivial at fist but when you're limited to approved food or food contact materials it's not so simple
[07:53:54] <CaptHindsight> and with additive all the materials that contact food have to meet guberment specs
[07:54:05] <malcom2073> It still weirds me out that butchers use bandsaws
[07:55:22] <CaptHindsight> nobody like my idea of cow shaped burgers
[07:55:46] <malcom2073> Remember those fake rib shaped patties of meat?
[07:55:52] <malcom2073> People totally love shaped meat
[07:56:12] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: did you see the video of the robot lamb processing plant?
[07:56:24] <malcom2073> Hah no
[07:56:59] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIv6WtSF9I
[07:57:12] <CaptHindsight> Scott - Automated Lamb Boning System 2011
[07:57:15] <malcom2073> I just can't see robots being able to be as efficient as humans at getting all the meat
[07:57:32] <CaptHindsight> what Skynet would do with us
[07:58:01] <CaptHindsight> if there was a market for human on some other planet
[07:59:40] <fenn> malcom2073: did you see my suggestions regarding your belt drive design
[07:59:47] <malcom2073> Oh I did not, where?
[07:59:59] <fenn> i'll just repeat then
[08:00:26] <fenn> the loop of belt can't be vertical because the side to side movement of the timing pulley won't cause the belt to lengthen
[08:01:12] <fenn> also you should lower the timing pulley to minimize the length of belt under tension
[08:01:23] <malcom2073> fenn: You talking about this: http://mikesshop.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DriveSystem.png ?
[08:01:30] <fenn> your gear reduction pulley can hang off the side of the tubing
[08:01:39] <fenn> yes that's what i'm talking about
[08:02:18] <malcom2073> Alright yeah, I do need the timing pully to be much closer, as close as possible I would assume
[08:02:35] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: is the system open or closed loop?
[08:02:39] <malcom2073> What do you mean abou the side to side movement?
[08:02:51] <archivist> not supposed to be any loop/freedom in a timing belt
[08:02:54] <fenn> the loop of belt has to make a triangle
[08:03:06] <fenn> archivist look at the picture
[08:03:11] <archivist> seen it
[08:03:27] <archivist> it is not "loose"
[08:03:54] <malcom2073> Yeah I can see the benefit of having the timing pully as low as possible
[08:03:54] <malcom2073> less stretch length
[08:04:03] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Unknown, probably steppers though
[08:04:05] <archivist> it it was that would introduce backlash
[08:05:35] <malcom2073> Still unsure what you mean by the loop needing to be not vertical?
[08:05:48] <fenn> the sides of the triangle are tangent to the timing pulley and tangent to the bearings pushing the belt down
[08:06:03] <fenn> you have no triangle so the effective tension on the belt is infinite
[08:06:03] <malcom2073> Right
[08:06:10] <fenn> like plucking a guitar string
[08:06:59] <fenn> or is it zero, hrm
[08:07:05] <CaptHindsight> whats the accuracy and repeatability required for the system?
[08:07:24] <CaptHindsight> whats the travel of that axis?
[08:07:38] * archivist watched fenn work it out :)
[08:08:06] <malcom2073> fenn: Right, yeah the whole idea is that the teeth meshing makes the tensioned section as small as possible, having it tall like that would be counter productive
[08:08:11] <archivist> the adjustment of the position is what matters, use a spring
[08:08:15] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Travel is 10ft, accuracy and repeatability is.... meh
[08:08:23] <CaptHindsight> oh o, cringeworthy?
[08:08:36] <malcom2073> archivist: Bingo, I have a tensioner design
[08:08:36] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Not really, but it's a router
[08:08:36] <archivist> more that a chalk mark
[08:09:14] <malcom2073> Wood and aluminum, so only less than the thermal stretch of a 10ft piece of aluminum :P
[08:09:20] <malcom2073> and wood for that matter
[08:09:33] <Sync_> malcom2073: efficiency is not the thing, you don't need skilled labor
[08:10:51] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: is the movement continuous in one direction while scanning or will it randomly move + - ?
[08:11:52] <archivist> make melt tensioner force> cutting force by some sensible amount
[08:11:56] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: It's a router, so whatever the design requires. Typically random movements +/-
[08:12:32] <archivist> one bother sides?
[08:12:36] <archivist> both
[08:12:38] <malcom2073> Yeah
[08:13:46] <CaptHindsight> huh, steaks like leather max out at about 2 meters since the raw material only naturally grows to that length
[08:13:48] <malcom2073> I redid the gantry, so I need to redo the drive system to suit it and post up some new pictures, I'll address the belt length issue and make it a triangle with the tensioner
[08:13:56] <malcom2073> True, no skilled labor is nice
[08:15:49] <CaptHindsight> define this skilled labor you speak of :)
[08:16:35] <Loetmichel> and the meat left on the bones can be scraped off by wire brushes and used as "pressed meat patties" or for sausage.
[08:16:42] <malcom2073> Whatever knd is required tocut up meat? I dunno haha
[08:16:43] <Loetmichel> so not wasted either
[08:17:48] <CaptHindsight> has opposable thumbs?
[08:18:07] <CaptHindsight> can work at the DMV? ??
[08:18:35] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: to be a butcher? quite a lot of experience AND dextirety (hows that spelled again?)
[08:19:11] <archivist> Loetmichel, I think they use high pressure water for the pink slime residue :)
[08:19:51] <Loetmichel> archivist: tha'll work even better than wire brushes ;)
[08:21:04] <archivist> actually centrifugal force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime
[08:33:03] <CaptHindsight> machining fruit cheaply and quickly is another challenge
[08:33:29] <ChuangTzu> those old school apple peelers are pretty cool
[08:36:55] <fenn> waterjet apple/lamb peelers
[08:37:11] <fenn> it's how they make "baby carrots"
[08:39:41] <Sync_> malcom2073: it is the number 1 cost issue in a slaughterhouse
[08:50:01] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIv6WtSF9I
[08:50:05] <SpeedEvil> Lamb boning system
[08:50:26] <SpeedEvil> X-ray tomography, laser-scanning, and then basically 'normal' industrial robots and bandsaws and stuff
[08:51:53] <CaptHindsight> Square watermelons why not other square fruits? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JNSpMhJLvg
[08:52:57] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Oooh
[08:53:05] <SpeedEvil> I have both apples and gooseberries growing now
[08:53:18] <SpeedEvil> The question is - can I be arsed to find suitable 'molds'
[08:53:35] <CaptHindsight> worth a try?
[08:54:19] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: you could corner the world on square apples
[08:54:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[08:55:37] <CaptHindsight> rectangular bananas could be another gold mine
[08:57:31] <tjtr33> japanese plant bondage, meh! its time to go
[08:57:33] <CaptHindsight> never machined an apple or banana, I wonder if <0 C or ~1-2 C is best?
[09:13:14] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6znCnsP9P4Y Mantis Machine 9 milling a face out of 72% dark chocolate
[09:14:15] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e74SfHRjKiw Chocolatier with CNC machine
[09:20:06] <CaptHindsight> and maybe vacuum forming of PP molds for high volume food applications
[09:21:18] <fenn> what if you just had a zillion pins each of which you could control the height, then vacuum formed on top of that
[09:21:49] <CaptHindsight> if you can lock the pins
[09:22:37] <CaptHindsight> comes down to how many copies you need and how fast
[09:23:00] <CaptHindsight> wax vs PP molds, SLA vs machining, etc
[09:24:02] <fenn> 1 copy as fast as possible
[09:24:14] <fenn> i would guess SLA is fastest but not sure
[09:25:08] <CaptHindsight> I'm just looking at low budget techniques for low volume (1-1000) custom-ish food products
[09:25:31] <CaptHindsight> and idiot proof as possible
[09:28:22] <CaptHindsight> machining food safe materials vs 3DP and vacuum forming or additional patter mold steps to make it safe
[09:28:39] <CaptHindsight> patter/pattern
[09:29:45] <fenn> 3d printing with oxygen-assisted UV cure http://youtu.be/UpH1zhUQY0c
[09:30:28] <fenn> the print rate is independent of the volume being solidified so you could nest faces pretty close together
[09:31:47] <fenn> something like 7 minutes to do a dozen 50mm molds
[09:33:29] <fenn> this process requires exotic oxygen-permeable transparent materials, but maybe in a few years there will be a DIY version
[09:36:45] <Deejay> re
[11:10:33] <zeeshan> 100 thou doc
[11:10:35] <zeeshan> then 5 thou doc?
[11:10:40] <zeeshan> good for milling? :P
[11:10:51] <archivist> depends!
[11:11:03] <zeeshan> on
[11:12:17] <archivist> cutter and job stiffness and material and voodoo
[11:12:26] <zeeshan> all stiff
[11:12:33] <zeeshan> its a 3/4 indexable end mill
[11:12:35] <zeeshan> apx3000ur
[11:12:40] <zeeshan> and mild steel
[11:14:43] <ganzuul> Do any milling beds/vices/chucks sense force and react accordingly?
[11:15:09] <zeeshan> ganzuul: very common to see that on production lines
[11:15:36] <zeeshan> kistler makes a tool dyno
[11:15:46] <zeeshan> http://www.kistler.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_935-569_Typ9171A_Hoch_204b145929.gif
[11:15:51] <zeeshan> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQSEhQUExQWFhUXGBUXGRgYGBQXFxwZFxcXFxgdHBkYHCggGBwlHBQUITEhJSkrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OFxAQGiwdHxwyLC0sLCwsLDYsLCw3LDcrLC8sLCw3LCwsLCwsKywsLC0sLC0tLDQsLC0sLyw3LCw3LP/AABEIAMkA+wMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEAAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwUCBAYBBwj/xABAEAACAQIEAwUFBgQFAwUAAAABAgADEQQSITEFQVEGMmFxkRMigaGxQlKiwdHwIzNi4TRykrLxFCSCBxVDU8L/xAAZAQEBAQEBAQAAA
[11:15:52] <zeeshan> er
[11:15:56] <zeeshan> https://www.hofstragroup.com/media/product_images/productimage-picture-kistler-9257b-triaxial-force-sensor-load-cell-2508.jpg
[11:16:03] <ganzuul> \o/
[11:16:06] <archivist> some machine tools sense the servo and therefore know the cutter conditions
[11:16:09] <zeeshan> and a thing you can mount under your vice
[11:16:29] <zeeshan> servo doesn't resolve the 3 components of force though
[11:17:03] <zeeshan> kistler is crazy
[11:17:20] <zeeshan> say you a force at some arbritary angle hitting their sensor
[11:17:24] <zeeshan> it resolves it into x y z components
[11:17:34] <archivist> most force measuring involves some movement, servo current is a total power
[11:17:58] <zeeshan> http://www.kistler.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_935-094_web_16-9_ad80f7a264.jpg kistler in use
[11:18:05] <ganzuul> Strain gauges are cheap and accurate though...
[11:18:13] <zeeshan> ganzuul: youre not understanding me :p
[11:18:35] <ganzuul> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/The-strain-gauge-pressure-sensor-for-high-precision-resistor-load-cell-electronic-scale-sensor-1KG-2KG/1649072013.html
[11:18:46] <archivist> I have a couple of Kistler amps
[11:19:06] <zeeshan> how are you going to resolve the forces to radial , feed and cutting forces?
[11:19:31] <ganzuul> I figure, you could make climb and conventional milling cut just as deep with this?
[11:19:37] <zeeshan> you'd need to make a pretty elaborate setup with strain gauges
[11:19:47] <ganzuul> hmm
[11:20:06] <zeeshan> i can't remember from class
[11:20:22] <zeeshan> but i think when your tool wears out
[11:20:29] <zeeshan> it first shows up in the cutting force component
[11:21:23] <archivist> hence the servo current on the spindle
[11:21:58] <zeeshan> archivist: i asked that specific quesiton
[11:22:05] <zeeshan> to the prof, monitoring servo, spindle current
[11:22:13] <zeeshan> but he gave me an answer saying why that is not the greatest way to do it
[11:22:22] <zeeshan> and i have it written down somewhere other than my brain :(
[11:22:32] <ganzuul> aww
[11:22:56] <archivist> what in dynamic RAM ?
[11:23:23] <ganzuul> What about capacitive sensing between the tool and the workpiece? Anybody doing that?
[11:23:38] <pcw_home> if you use torque mode servos you could integrate the total work done for a specific job
[11:23:58] <archivist> it is in contact, no capacitance when milling
[11:24:44] <ganzuul> You would be able to tell exactly when capacitance goes to 0.
[11:25:19] <archivist> there can be no capacitance in contact
[11:25:27] <archivist> it is a short
[11:25:42] <pcw_home> well there is but its hard to measure :-)
[11:26:32] <ganzuul> Yes, I am quite familiar with it. The benefit here would be knowing when the tool isn't in contact with the work piece and when it is.
[11:27:25] <archivist> like the self capacitance of an inductor, makes no sense in a cutting environment, too many chips shorting the cutter too
[11:27:49] <pcw_home> Spindle load will also tell you that (though a bit more slowly)
[11:27:51] <ganzuul> hmm
[11:28:48] <pcw_home> or sound (spindle mounted accelerometer?)
[11:29:18] <archivist> the piezo measurement kistler is doing is direct force to voltage
[11:29:27] <zeeshan> http://www.sv-jme.eu/data/upload/2011/02/07_2010_079_Cus.pdf
[11:29:33] <zeeshan> figure 4
[11:29:52] <zeeshan> ther eis a distinct signature y ou can pick up in the cutting (thrust) force
[11:30:01] <ganzuul> I figure, you could also know when you are milling your vice/chuck/fasteners
[11:30:02] <zeeshan> for say a chipped tool
[11:30:27] <zeeshan> and you can use that profile to predict flankwear
[11:31:37] <zeeshan> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.15.9092&rep=rep1&type=pdf
[11:31:45] <furrywolf> the time to avoid milling your vise is before the program starts, not after. :)
[11:31:51] <zeeshan> i don't know why he said its not ideal to use spindle current
[11:32:12] <zeeshan> but these guys show clearly you can use spindle current and feed current for a simple drilling process
[11:32:13] <pcw_home> not ideal but a lot cheaper
[11:32:22] <pcw_home> sure
[11:32:32] <zeeshan> i think the area i see it being a problem is
[11:32:50] <zeeshan> actually nm
[11:32:52] <ganzuul> furrywolf: I hear it's easily a $60,000 USD mistake, so might be worth a bit of insurance.
[11:33:16] <furrywolf> ganzuul: your vise has a couple more zeros than our vises. :P
[11:33:16] <zeeshan> pcw_home: forgot why its not ideal
[11:33:30] <zeeshan> there is a good reason why kistler overtook the competition
[11:33:34] <pcw_home> a spindle microphone would probably be a good addition to the fuzzy logic input set
[11:34:13] <ganzuul> furrywolf: In this scenario the tool holder was damaged.
[11:35:02] <zeeshan> file:///C:/Users/zeeshan/Downloads/MNSMS20120200003_98300264.pdf
[11:35:05] <zeeshan> figure 6 and 7
[11:35:09] <zeeshan> that really shows it well
[11:35:16] <furrywolf> I don't see how you'd reliably tell vise from workpiece anyway, if you're machining anything with similar properties to steel, which is often most of the time.
[11:35:23] <zeeshan> just changing spindle speed effects spindle current (not sure what was going on in the other paper)
[11:35:39] * furrywolf hax0rs zee's computer to get the file
[11:35:46] <zeeshan> whoops
[11:36:06] <zeeshan> https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC8QFjACahUKEwjWlrCc75nHAhWLXpIKHQeBADE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scirp.org%2Fjournal%2FPaperDownload.aspx%3FpaperID%3D18405&ei=SinGVdbJGou9yQSHgoKIAw&usg=AFQjCNHtsqpCq7jaKRXWtZgJtRgTxhaKcQ&bvm=bv.99804247,d.aWw
[11:36:45] <zeeshan> i think its harder to detect w/ spindle current
[11:37:02] <ganzuul> I think the continous time Markov Chain method would suffice for most of the DSP issues we're dealing with there. Those are the algorithms which detect which state an analog process is in.
[11:37:23] <zeeshan> cause you could be at say 400 rpm using a worn tool and you wouldn't know
[11:37:28] <zeeshan> cause most of the machining was done at 2000 rpm
[11:37:34] <zeeshan> prolly have to develop some relationships
[11:37:54] <ganzuul> furrywolf: Put some POM between the vice and the workpiece?
[11:37:54] <zeeshan> with force measurement you could just monitor the abrupt change in response
[11:37:55] <pcw_home> Sure but the total work could be used for tool wear detection
[11:38:26] <zeeshan> you mean power right?
[11:38:28] <pcw_home> not as fast but better trend data
[11:39:18] * zeeshan thinks linuxcnc needs some servo motor info :D
[11:39:21] <pcw_home> no, work
[11:40:06] <pcw_home> integrate the total spindle work between specific waypoints in the job
[11:40:48] <ganzuul> ...Capacitance will tell you if you are close to danger. - Not if you have already messed up.
[11:41:20] <zeeshan> these methods predict tool failure
[11:41:28] <ganzuul> hmm
[11:41:33] <zeeshan> by observing trends
[11:41:53] <zeeshan> i think the cutting force one was nice because you have analytical models based on material paramters
[11:42:01] <zeeshan> that you can always compare with your measured cutting force
[11:42:27] <pcw_home> this is something you could try now if your modbus interface returns the spindle current
[11:42:41] <zeeshan> so you could be machining a piece of aluminum at 2000 rpm and 0.01 ipt , and machining steel at 2000rpm
[11:42:46] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i have them displaying
[11:43:00] <zeeshan> but i never logged it
[11:43:20] <zeeshan> like im watching spindle current , and the tool has already snapped
[11:43:25] <zeeshan> and i dont register anything on the current
[11:43:39] <archivist> low/high current from norm
[11:43:39] <zeeshan> but i havent run it for detecting wear
[11:44:12] <zeeshan> i should output it into a txt file
[11:44:26] <zeeshan> and when the next tool snaps, seee if it showed up
[11:44:32] <pcw_home> for repetitive jobs, you could record the total spindle work for the job and then compare with subsequent jobs
[11:44:33] <ganzuul> Are tools designed to snap before they damage the tool holder?
[11:44:44] <archivist> no
[11:44:50] <ganzuul> \o/
[11:44:55] <ganzuul> Dat dumb!
[11:44:57] <zeeshan> ganzuul: tool is a lot smaller
[11:45:01] <zeeshan> than the holder, itll snap before
[11:45:16] <ganzuul> I mean, engineered weakness.
[11:45:24] <zeeshan> no :P
[11:45:31] <zeeshan> its inherent to them because of the flutes
[11:45:32] <ffurrywol> tool holders should be designed not to snap before the tool. :P
[11:45:41] <archivist> not if within normal cutting force it will just chew through
[11:46:47] <archivist> any fusible point would make chattering almost a certainty
[11:46:51] <zeeshan> archivist: you quickly figure out that your tool holder can be a good burnishing tool!
[11:46:51] <zeeshan> :D
[11:47:11] <Sync_> zeeshan: I think spindle torque is too insensitive
[11:47:33] <archivist> seen enough vice damage to think the tool wins
[11:47:36] <Sync_> the force platform provides a lot more resolution
[11:47:49] <zeeshan> sync lets verify your point
[11:48:08] <zeeshan> figure 7 in that pdf
[11:48:21] <zeeshan> 250mA difference
[11:48:40] <zeeshan> you need to resolve in like 25 mA to get decent values
[11:48:41] <ganzuul> archivist: The vices in the shop class of the school I went to looked like the surface of the moon.
[11:49:14] <zeeshan> very first pdf i posted , figure 4
[11:49:22] <Sync_> that is turning, where you can actually get constant torque
[11:49:38] <Sync_> with milling I'd suppose the torque observer would have not enough bandwidth
[11:49:51] <zeeshan> cutting force fluctuates between 200 to 400 N normally, but 500 to 100 N and has a distinct profile
[11:51:07] <zeeshan> that figure shows the whole tool brekaage process varying th e force happens in 1ms
[11:51:07] <zeeshan> haha
[11:52:33] <Sync_> it is simply unrealistic to get such a high resolution torque measurement from a servo without a load cell
[11:53:26] <zeeshan> i did this one lab in undergrade
[11:53:30] <zeeshan> where we had an electric motor dyno
[11:53:46] <zeeshan> we monitored its current and stuff to get data
[11:53:54] <ganzuul> ...I think IC Hall sensors should have low enough hysteresis to provide good bandwidth.
[11:54:00] <zeeshan> but the motor base also had a load cell arm on it
[11:54:06] <zeeshan> and motor was coupled to a brake
[11:54:10] <zeeshan> we were comparing all the things
[11:54:14] <zeeshan> i remember there being differences :)
[11:54:14] <Sync_> measuring the current is not the issue ganzuul
[11:54:20] <ganzuul> oh
[11:54:30] <Sync_> but deriving torque current from it
[11:54:43] <archivist> the mass of the motor swamps the effects seen
[11:55:17] <zeeshan> youre basically saying that the motor mount be using in real life 10A of current
[11:55:31] <zeeshan> but the magnitude of the tool wear is like 25 mA
[11:55:33] <archivist> so the current will only show an average and delayed compared to a more direct method
[11:56:02] <Sync_> and also deriving torque from torqeue current is
[11:56:22] <zeeshan> but couldn't you easily mount a load cell on the specific axis
[11:56:52] <zeeshan> i was thinking keeping the motor housing floating
[11:56:55] <archivist> but an average can be good enough to measure a process
[11:56:57] <zeeshan> buit that'd introduce backlash int othe system
[11:57:23] <archivist> another one of those "depends"
[11:57:30] <ffurrywol> build strain gauges into the tool, with a pair for each carbide insert. :P
[11:58:00] <archivist> 4 in a bridge per tooth
[11:59:56] <ganzuul> Not sure if plain old PZT will stand up to that.
[12:01:05] <ganzuul> Then again there are those things Dan Gelbart talked about. Flextures.
[12:02:30] <archivist> everything flexes with some force, some devices have a point where that flex is meant to be
[12:02:53] <archivist> or constrains the flex direction
[12:02:59] <zeeshan> or you can buy a kistler
[12:03:01] <zeeshan> and call it a day
[12:03:03] <zeeshan> :]
[12:03:16] <archivist> that is costly I bet
[12:03:36] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kistler-9121-Dynamometer-System-Triaxial-Load-Cell-Force-Sensor-Lathe-Piezo-/161709433931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a6a2244b
[12:03:40] <zeeshan> only 19k
[12:03:56] <zeeshan> theres another one for 9k
[12:03:57] <zeeshan> haha
[12:04:16] <zeeshan> its quite hard to diy their design tool
[12:04:20] <pcw_home> for tool breakage, detection, high bandwidth force detection is needed, but probably overkill for wear detection
[12:04:24] <archivist> somewhat beyond my paygrade
[12:04:30] <zeeshan> bastards grow crystals a certain way
[12:04:45] <zeeshan> to output voltage to specific orientation of force only
[12:05:29] <archivist> use 3 bits of ordinary crystal and calibrate
[12:05:36] <pcw_home> just how the PZT is oriented when its charged
[12:08:35] <Sync_> zeeshan: I suppose you could fit a strain gauge onto the spindle
[12:08:42] <Sync_> but that would interfere with packaging
[12:09:35] <ganzuul> The way you cut the crystal also matters.
[12:10:20] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhhsusoj1kk
[12:11:05] * Loetmichel managed to let a big westinghouse fan fall on my hand while mounting it on the ceiling... left thumb getting bigger and bigger now :-(
[12:12:00] <ganzuul> :(
[12:12:02] <Tom_itx> for tool breakage measure spindle current
[12:12:23] <Tom_itx> sample the normal tool load for a particular tool
[12:12:42] <ffurrywol> when something is too large, you hit it with a hammer and pound it smaller.
[12:12:49] <ffurrywol> should work on fingers too, right?
[12:13:16] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel, aren't you past your growth years?
[12:14:23] <Tom_itx> spindle current would work unless you're on a lead in or lead out move
[12:15:57] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: groth years?
[12:16:28] <ffurrywol> Tom_itx: that's easy. have your CAM software generate expected tool loadings for the entire program, and compare to those. :P
[12:18:11] <Sync_> growing quartz is also quite annoying, the chemistry has to be right and it takes a lot of energy
[12:19:27] <ganzuul> ffurrywol: Isn't that exactly what HSM/dynamic/torochidal/chip thinning does?
[12:19:41] <ganzuul> I mean, generate
[12:20:01] <furrywolf> dunno. I can't even manage to find working cam software. heh.
[12:21:26] <LatheBuilder_2> jthornton: a trick to getting print carts back to life - soak a paper towel with Windex, let the carts sit jets down on it. Only thing that reliably fixed my Epson print head (built in to printer)
[12:23:28] <PetefromTn_> It is my strongly held belief that personal printers and print cartridges are the biggest scam unleashed onto the people of the world!
[12:25:21] <LatheBuilder_2> Not that I completely disagree, but I think the lottery has to have that slot. Also, get a laser printer and it is a new world.
[12:26:13] <archivist> cartridge prices for lasers is an exceedingly close runner up
[12:26:17] <cradek> I use my laser printer for one page maybe once a month, and it always works perfectly, and the cartridge may last the rest of my life
[12:26:39] <LatheBuilder_2> it just sits there for months, wakes up instantly to print, goes back to sleep when it isn't necessary. do I date myself if I make a halo reference?
[12:26:41] <cradek> it's a 10 year old discard from an office
[12:27:08] <PetefromTn_> until the drum wiper blade sticks and wipes out the drum
[12:27:33] <archivist> if you print off a few manuals you soon notice the similarity in pricing :)
[12:27:38] <cradek> inkjet printers are like razors - things suckers think they need :-)
[12:28:16] <cradek> (I think disposable razor blades are the predecessor of the inkjet cartridge scam)
[12:28:37] <archivist> blame Gillette !
[12:29:00] <cradek> now people fall for it with coffee pods too
[12:29:12] <archivist> and tea bags
[12:29:18] <cradek> well the machine still costs $100 I guess
[12:29:20] <ganzuul> Razor blades separate atomic bonds. They're not like other types of cutlery.
[12:29:24] <cradek> some things I don't understand
[12:29:34] <LatheBuilder_2> ever own a lexmark inkjet? by comparison an HP d1606 is free for life.
[12:29:37] <pcw_home> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-z5ND69WUzkA/VOkHUauMJcI/AAAAAAAATRU/VKvO3K4jSpo/s1600/Screenshot%2B2015-02-21%2B14.24.12.png
[12:30:14] <LatheBuilder_2> thanks peter, now my family is wondering why daddy is laughing uncontrollably
[12:30:26] <cradek> pcw_home: I don't get it
[12:30:59] <Sync_> LatheBuilder_2: if you bought a lexmark you have lost control over your life
[12:32:25] <LatheBuilder_2> true story: tax day many years back. needed to print my taxes to mail (yeah that many years ago). A relative offered to sell me a lexmark with its starter carts for less than a set for the good one I had.
[12:33:13] <LatheBuilder_2> $20 for a new lexmark and I still think i overpayed, but it did at least print that one job before it died.
[12:33:18] <cradek> didn't you have a selectric?
[12:34:00] <LatheBuilder_2> grin. i did have one as a kid, but it was from an auction...i'm 38.
[12:35:02] <PetefromTn_> I have had about a dozen different printers from all manufacturers and have yet to find one that lasted more than a year or two let alone be worth the money invested. Nowadays if I really need something printed I run to staples LOL
[12:35:08] <CaptHindsight> fenn,
[12:36:20] <ganzuul> 2nd hand office laser printers can be really good.
[12:37:20] <CaptHindsight> fenn: the problem is that you need to use components either approved for food contact or use the SLA patterns to make some thing that is made of approved food contact materials
[12:38:01] <cradek> ganzuul: I've had 2 in 20? years
[12:39:39] <LatheBuilder_2> CaptHindsight: how about hot wax spray into glass bead bed, layer 3dp shell molds. beads and glass sterile of course
[12:40:40] <LatheBuilder_2> perhaps multi head so layer build isn't so gruelling
[12:43:00] <LatheBuilder_2> maybe 100 micron sized glass beads
[12:44:06] <CaptHindsight> powdered glass bed?
[12:44:21] <ganzuul> cradek: I got something like 5000 pages out of one.
[12:46:14] <LatheBuilder_2> yes, but round glass beads. They are made for several industries but bead blasting comes to mind. I have a drum of beads for blasting, finer than sand but uniform round beads. would spread nicely...
[12:46:24] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder_2: the problem I see there is keeping the glass beads out of the wax
[12:47:37] <LatheBuilder_2> think zcorp type print head, wax just hot enough to jet. solidifies quickly after contact with glass bead layer.
[12:47:53] <LatheBuilder_2> point is to let it wet the beads
[12:49:07] <CaptHindsight> inkjet is out unless I use SS head
[12:49:24] <LatheBuilder_2> but avoid having to print the whole interior volume. printing shell only means relatively fast builds. Make the shell thick enough to be self supporting in a bead bed.
[12:49:34] <CaptHindsight> they make them but they are too slow
[12:50:06] <LatheBuilder_2> epson head with heated reservoir. carefull control on temp
[12:50:09] <LatheBuilder_2> ?
[12:50:20] <CaptHindsight> can't use Epsons
[12:50:31] <LatheBuilder_2> licensing? or clog
[12:50:53] <CaptHindsight> the 3D systems heads and similar are Xerox heads
[12:51:23] <sector_0> Hey guys, I want to install linuxcnc on a CPU i have lying around but I don't have a spare monitor...
[12:51:29] <sector_0> is there any way to work around this?
[12:51:42] <sector_0> Can I stream the output to another computer?
[12:52:18] <Tom_itx> borrow a monitor then once installed run it headless
[12:52:35] <Tom_itx> my server has no kbd or monityr
[12:52:49] <sector_0> Tom_itx, headless?
[12:52:52] <Tom_itx> just an etehrnet connection
[12:52:55] <Tom_itx> ^^^
[12:53:00] <Tom_itx> headless
[12:53:07] <Jymmm> powerless too!
[12:53:17] <sector_0> I kinda assume that wasn't possible
[12:53:43] <sector_0> I might sound like an idiot...but isn't the interface gui driven?
[12:53:53] <Jymmm> remote desktop
[12:54:04] <ganzuul> IIRC most distros disable UART TTY these days be default, but you can probably find a distro which has it on.
[12:54:30] <Jymmm> hard to find a serial port than remote tty =)
[12:54:36] <Jymmm> hearder^
[12:54:36] <LatheBuilder_2> CaptHindsight: seems like a feature, not bug. http://www.xerox.com/innovation/news-stories/solid-ink/enus.html
[12:54:45] <Jymmm> harder^
[12:54:51] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder_2: Epson heads are designed for low viscosity fluids, 3-7cps, are without heaters and don't have circulation
[12:55:13] <ganzuul> Jymmm: There are usually headers right on the mobo!
[12:55:41] <sector_0> Tom_itx, I can understand a server where most actions are done through terminal via commands, but cnc linuxcnc work like that as well?
[12:55:48] <sector_0> ...i've actually never used it
[12:55:56] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder_2: the Xerox heads are not approved for food contact
[12:55:57] <Jymmm> ganzuul: but how many actually have the ribbon cable to plug into it ;)
[12:56:06] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't do it that way personally
[12:56:23] <ganzuul> Jymmm: You just need two wires.
[12:56:36] <ganzuul> ...Don't ask me how I know this.
[12:56:44] <ganzuul> I have been naughty. <.<
[12:56:57] <Jymmm> TMI
[12:57:23] <LatheBuilder_2> is it a quick stitch together project, or r&d tolerable if promising?
[12:57:36] <ganzuul> I also apply thermal grease to my CPUs in the nude, to avoid static discharge.
[12:58:21] * Jymmm grabs the stun gun...
[12:58:34] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[12:58:41] <sector_0> Tom_itx, but it linuxcnc still a capable OS?
[12:58:42] <ganzuul> Don't hit my server!
[12:58:56] <sector_0> can I install a remote desktop system like vnc?
[12:58:58] <Tom_itx> linuxcnc isn't an OS at all
[12:59:20] <Tom_itx> it runs on several like ubuntu, debian etc
[12:59:47] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder_2: sort run (1-1000) custom food products. Mold-able, cast-able foods
[13:00:07] <sector_0> Tom_itx, so linuxcnc is a program essentially?
[13:00:18] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[13:00:56] <sector_0> so when I download the liveCD what i'm downloading it ubuntu(or another distro) with the program pre-installed on that OS?
[13:01:12] <sector_0> s/it/is
[13:01:29] <CaptHindsight> sector_0: there is an installation and demo disk that comes with the whole OS and applications for you to try
[13:01:32] <LatheBuilder_2> sector_0 yes
[13:02:04] <sector_0> hmm
[13:03:14] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder_2: the constraints are having to work with only "foods" or approved food contact materials
[13:03:39] <ganzuul> ED: Three wires. One for ground. UART does no statistics on its 1s and 0s.
[13:03:48] <sector_0> Ok I know that the kernel in these distros are tailored with special features that make them suitable for CNC machinery...but can the linuxcnc program be run on a regular distro?
[13:04:29] <CaptHindsight> sector_0: you have to make a real time kernel to do that
[13:04:45] <ganzuul> The kernels are all realtime.
[13:04:51] <Tom_itx> sector_0, no
[13:04:54] <ganzuul> You add an option to your grub conf.
[13:05:21] <Tom_itx> if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be trying to build one
[13:05:36] <pcw_home> You can run linuxcnc on a standard linux installation but only in simulator (sim) mode
[13:05:55] <sector_0> Tom_itx, build what?
[13:06:02] <Tom_itx> the OS
[13:06:03] <LatheBuilder_2> CaptHindsight: ever see an airless paint sprayer in action? how about a micro version. same fan spray but tiny enough to not disturb bead bed. could be all stainless
[13:06:04] <pcw_home> not for running a real machine (but good for testing and learning)
[13:06:49] <sector_0> The reason I asked is because I have a small Cartesian robot that I'd would like the test
[13:06:59] <sector_0> basically ensure that it's movements are on point
[13:07:23] <LatheBuilder_2> single orifice nozzle, but orientable so fan pattern traces perimeter of shell mold.
[13:08:12] <LatheBuilder_2> feed line would have to recirculate to keep gradient down
[13:08:17] <ganzuul> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah9kLdUFDQY
[13:08:17] <ganzuul> Thermal Spray Technology.mov
[13:08:40] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder_2: what made the pattern in the bead bed?
[13:09:03] <ganzuul> Also, you get to weild a legit plasma pistol.
[13:10:26] <LatheBuilder_2> 2d cartesian positionable nozzle. 3rd ("C") axis orients nozzle. 4th dof is build plate with spreader head
[13:12:09] <ganzuul> ...might be thermal spraying surfaces won't be okay for food stuff since they leave porosities...
[13:13:28] <CaptHindsight> you still need make the patterns, this just fills or coats a mold or pattern
[13:13:39] <LatheBuilder_2> the trick is guaranteeing complete evacuation of the loose beads inside shell. leave some in you get crunchy chocolates.
[13:14:10] <LatheBuilder_2> this builds the mold in situ.
[13:14:40] <CaptHindsight> I must ave missed a step then
[13:14:50] <LatheBuilder_2> "airless" nozzle replaces xerox print head.
[13:15:35] <LatheBuilder_2> step one: position build platform one layer down from nozzle contact. nozzle parked in corner. spread layer of glass beads.
[13:16:38] <LatheBuilder_2> 2) nozzle comes out of park position once spreader is clear. sprays lowermost thin slice of the mold profile in bead bed.
[13:17:39] <LatheBuilder_2> 3) back to park. 4) spread new layer 5) repeat 2,3,4 untill shell complete with pouring sprues/runners designed in to mold.
[13:18:29] <CaptHindsight> I follow you now
[13:18:32] <LatheBuilder_2> 6) vacuum evacuate loose bead fill material from inside of mold. 7) flow through release agent if necessary
[13:19:02] <LatheBuilder_2> 8) low pressure inject molten edibles
[13:20:22] <LatheBuilder_2> i've been slowly working on a version using a low temp metal alloy instead of food.
[13:22:19] <CaptHindsight> vs milling bakers wax
[13:23:00] <ganzuul> Do you break the mold, or open it at a seam?
[13:25:40] <LatheBuilder2> right. for block type shapes, subtractive faster. for relief portraits of the whole family in edible chocolates, tips toward 3dp shell molds
[13:26:32] <LatheBuilder2> ganzuul: depends on whether casting flash is acceptable
[13:30:03] <LatheBuilder2> CaptHindsight: what resolution features do you have in mind?
[13:31:28] <CaptHindsight> not much, just a reasonable facsimile, better than FDM
[13:32:36] <CaptHindsight> or about the same if you can polish it quickly and easily
[13:35:06] <LatheBuilder2> hmmm. instead of glass beads >> powdered starch. food safe to start with. Small inclusions don't chip teeth
[13:35:31] <CaptHindsight> LatheBuilder2: this started out as how to make 100 custom gummy bears of a single scan
[13:36:06] <CaptHindsight> the glass beads were out :)
[13:36:33] <LatheBuilder2> interesting. iirc gummy bears are poured in pressed starch molds already
[13:36:50] <CaptHindsight> yes
[13:36:53] <LatheBuilder2> =)
[13:39:36] <CaptHindsight> one pattern can make 100 corn starch molds in 2 minutes, figuring if it's done manually
[13:40:33] <CaptHindsight> patterns say 1" dia and under, 1/4" thick
[13:41:44] <PetefromTn_> you still makin gummy bears man?
[13:42:03] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: runin the numbers
[13:42:25] <LatheBuilder2> ok. how about a close packed pin bed with a silicone shell over it. like a miniature relief map covered with a smoothing membrane. also acts to provide starch seal.
[13:42:41] <LatheBuilder2> pins all vertical.
[13:43:09] <PetefromTn_> so you are seriously considering going into the gummy business then?
[13:43:22] <CaptHindsight> you still have to make the pattern, unless you 1:1 with kids faces, that could be fun as well :)
[13:43:58] <LatheBuilder2> 1) use lcnc in a mill to set each pin depth. food compliant clay acts as depth stop.
[13:44:16] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: it's working out the process from end to end, looks simple at first
[13:44:55] <LatheBuilder2> 2) once all pins pressed to correct depth, lock pins together and extract from bedding media. put silicone sheet over, pull vacuum.
[13:45:14] <LatheBuilder2> 3) press into starch bed. 4) cast
[13:45:15] <furrywolf> that seems far more complicated than just stamping a form into starch.
[13:45:18] <PetefromTn_> hehe everything looks simple at first
[13:45:29] <furrywolf> machine it out of wood, wax, or something else disposable.
[13:46:21] <LatheBuilder2> if all your bears need to look exactly the same nothing stops you from using one form. what if you want to make gummy "bears" shaped like something your family saw at the zoo just that day?
[13:46:42] <furrywolf> 3d print them. :
[13:46:43] <furrywolf> :P
[13:46:50] <DaViruz> gummy giraffe
[13:48:00] <LatheBuilder2> CaptHindsight: ever watch Meet the Croods? Family portrait
[13:48:26] <PetefromTn_> I have always wanted to make my own candy mold 3d milled
[13:48:32] <furrywolf> how about a 3d starch+binder inkjet printer? create the mold directly by spraying binder into starch one layer at a time, dump out non-bound starch, pour in gummy?
[13:50:43] <furrywolf> that would be quick and reusable, especially if the binder was something like water.
[13:53:41] <LatheBuilder2> for those that haven't seen it, in Meet the Croods the family smears all their faces with paint and hit themselves with a big plate of shale to make "family portraits". a joke.
[13:54:11] <furrywolf> ... ok?
[13:54:57] <CaptHindsight> "use your face to make gorilla cookies" -70's TV
[13:55:19] <LatheBuilder2> an extension to CaptH's humorous comment of 1:1 kids faces gently pressed in powdered starch beds to make molds.
[13:56:08] <furrywolf> I like my starch binder inkjet idea...
[13:58:26] <PetefromTn_> I was just thinkng of designing a cool chocolate mold nothing fancy
[14:00:24] <CaptHindsight> the whole thing just got me thinking about custom shaped foods in general
[14:00:29] <LatheBuilder2> CaptHindsight: something like this but with the pins touching. http://tangible.media.mit.edu/project/relief/
[14:00:56] <CaptHindsight> https://www.ediblearrangements.com/ and similar
[14:01:02] <LatheBuilder2> in that link, the pins are spaced for individual driving.
[14:02:25] <LatheBuilder2> a 1 x 1 square made from touching pins on 0.062 spacing. If it takes 1/2 second per pin to press to depth you are looking at just over 2 minutes to build the whole mold.
[14:03:13] <furrywolf> you can buy a whole lot of disposable machining material for what that'll cost.
[14:04:14] <SpeedEvil> Great.
[14:04:18] <SpeedEvil> Now, how do you clean that?
[14:04:20] <furrywolf> I still like my 3d printed starch binder... you're already using starch, why not just make the mold in it directly?
[14:07:07] <SpeedEvil> From memory, chocolate is a non-newtonian fluid
[14:07:25] <SpeedEvil> you can pump it at really high pressure cold, and then it rapidly sets up
[14:13:57] <CaptHindsight> you can play with the formulation for chocolate as well
[14:14:44] <zeeshan> lol im actually trying to do some real milling calcs
[14:14:59] <zeeshan> and some of these numbers are so much higher than im used to
[14:15:11] <CaptHindsight> what are you milling?
[14:15:13] <zeeshan> steel drilling w/ 1/4" drill : 6 ipm, 2000 rpm
[14:15:16] <zeeshan> steel
[14:15:17] <CaptHindsight> material
[14:15:24] <zeeshan> 1018 cold rolled
[14:20:12] <JT-Shop> windoze 7 wants me to upgrade to 10 for free lol
[14:20:24] <ganzuul> Can chocolate be heat polished?
[14:20:36] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how much do class pictures cost these days? And do they still sell candy, caramel apples, etc for fund raisers?
[14:20:39] <furrywolf> JT-Shop: don't.
[14:20:47] <CaptHindsight> ganzuul: sure
[14:21:09] <CaptHindsight> same for wax
[14:21:15] <ganzuul> hmm
[14:23:44] <CaptHindsight> cnc shaved Popsicle's
[14:24:28] <ganzuul> What's the engineering term? Flame polishing relies on a gas flow which creates dunes, but if you don't have gas flow you might be able to get much better roughness or evenness.
[14:24:59] <CaptHindsight> IR Reflow
[14:25:03] <ganzuul> oooh
[14:25:04] <ganzuul> ty
[14:25:34] <CaptHindsight> laser polished chocolates
[14:27:27] <ganzuul> eeh... All the hits are for reflow soldering... Not polishing.
[14:28:41] <SpeedEvil> Flame polishing creates dunes if you do it wrong IME
[14:29:16] <SpeedEvil> the right way is to hit the surface really hard - as in with a blowtorch on high from 1cm - but with the torch moving rapidly over the surface
[14:29:24] <SpeedEvil> so it's only actually heating for ~20ms or so
[14:29:47] <SpeedEvil> Only the very, very surface layer gets melted and becomes very liquid, and then freezes a handful of milliseconds later
[14:30:13] <ganzuul> But doesn't that create a pattern?
[14:30:40] <SpeedEvil> Not IME - but then I was doing it on safety glass
[14:31:17] <ganzuul> Did you check strain with the polarization thing?
[14:32:07] <SpeedEvil> Irrelevant.
[14:32:16] <SpeedEvil> The only bit heated is the top ~50um or so
[14:32:22] <ganzuul> oh
[14:32:43] <SpeedEvil> _really_ fast
[14:32:51] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/iNQ40MYwZqw?t=55s only with PP sheet
[14:33:34] <JT-Shop> furrywolf, I don't plan on it
[14:33:44] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight No idea but if they sell it at a school it is typically twice or better what it is worth LOL
[14:33:56] <ganzuul> CaptHindsight: That's cool. :)
[14:34:50] <furrywolf> on a completely unrelated computer-related topic, god damn SSDs make computers faster. I can't wait to get my new laptop suitable for being my main system.
[14:34:55] <PetefromTn_> is that for a single part or for a mold?
[14:35:06] <furrywolf> I'm never putting a spinning rust drive in anything again. lol
[14:35:07] <CaptHindsight> single part
[14:35:19] <PetefromTn_> jeez that looks like a slow process
[14:35:33] <PetefromTn_> WAY slow compared to a pressed part
[14:35:50] <CaptHindsight> no tooling vs $300k
[14:35:54] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: they do
[14:36:16] <PetefromTn_> sorry I was having to clean out and defrost my fridge's Ice maker LOL
[14:36:31] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight sure for prototype work it would be fine I suppose
[14:37:16] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: smaller production runs
[14:37:32] <PetefromTn_> at Ford?
[14:38:24] <CaptHindsight> they do call it a prototyping process
[14:38:57] <PetefromTn_> and a damn good one at that it is very interesting... kinda reminds me of the lathe forming processes for round parts
[14:39:57] <ganzuul> CaptHindsight: Laser polishing seems to be the high-tech version...
[14:40:51] <CaptHindsight> maybe Mr. Potato head-sh patterns would be good enough
[14:41:35] <CaptHindsight> have a premade library of face patterns that you finish mill in minutes
[14:43:11] <furrywolf> I hate google. hate. hate!
[14:43:37] <furrywolf> yesterday, on this laptop, I went to a couple pages someone pasted about how gummies are made.
[14:43:47] <furrywolf> today, on my other laptop, I go to youtube to see if video playback works, and it's recommending gummy videos.
[14:44:08] <furrywolf> I do not have any google accounts of any kind.
[14:49:28] <pcw_home> I know all, I see all...
[14:50:14] <Tom_itx> fact or fiction
[14:50:17] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: when will the Cubs win the World Series? :)
[14:59:59] <CaptHindsight> ganzuul: https://youtu.be/opilKX7ea_c?t=13s chocolate marked with a CO2 laser
[15:03:03] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuTPnqaZu58 Laser Engraving on a CHOCOLATE BAR
[15:03:50] * ganzuul is suspicious
[15:07:40] <ganzuul> Should probably use a more diffuse beam for polishing.
[15:19:17] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: that doesnt look too healthy :P
[15:19:54] <pcw_home> Mmm pyrolized food
[15:20:34] <CaptHindsight> bacon
[15:22:40] <CaptHindsight> laser engraved chocolate as patterns with corn starch molds
[15:22:55] <Loetmichel> hmmm.... how long can peanut butter be over the "best before"? i just found a still sealed mug in the closet... with a best before date of 2007 ;)
[15:23:16] <furrywolf> is it green, white, or fluffy? otherwise, it's still good.
[15:26:14] <ganzuul> What sort of seal is it? If metallized, it should be OK for a long time.
[15:27:26] <ganzuul> Smelling and tasting it should tell you though. If it's even a little off, that's a billion years of evolution telling you not to be an ass.
[15:29:45] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: glass mug with metalized paper seal on top
[15:30:21] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: i NEVER eat that stuff. thats why it had survived so long in the cupboard
[15:32:33] <ganzuul> Me neither. Guess that's how I survived too.
[15:33:23] <ganzuul> Dug mine out just now. Said 2013. It's in the bin now.
[15:37:06] <furrywolf> I've eaten plenty of expired food. unless it's moldy, it seems to be fine. and even if it is, it's sometimes fine. heh.
[15:37:21] <furrywolf> for example, just cut the outside off of moldy cheese...
[15:37:59] <ganzuul> That doesn't work with chicken.
[15:38:03] <ganzuul> Just FYI.
[15:40:22] <Loetmichel> let him make that mistake himself
[15:41:00] <Loetmichel> the unpleasantness of that experience will ram that truth firm in his brain ;-)
[15:41:02] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: do you decide on the BOM for the electric wheel chair?
[15:41:11] <Loetmichel> not right now
[15:41:30] <Loetmichel> i will shove my wife thru londong the next few days
[15:41:41] <Loetmichel> ... also good for my overweight ;)
[15:42:30] <Loetmichel> ... will be in the hotel in london 24 hrs from now
[15:42:46] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel powered
[15:42:59] <ganzuul> Electron beam polishing seems to already have moved into a commercial phase. EB seems to usually be more economic than laser.
[15:43:36] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: vacation or work in London?
[15:43:44] <Loetmichel> ... and wife has already booked: mdme tussauds, tower, tower bridge, some sightseeing bus, a few things i forgot already and has ordered a rental car for a "short trip to cambridge"....
[15:44:00] <Loetmichel> <- sees himself coming back with muscles like arnold ;)
[15:44:05] <Loetmichel> vacation
[15:44:10] <Loetmichel> only 4 days tho
[15:44:47] <Loetmichel> ah, one of the things i forgot was london dungenon
[15:45:00] <ganzuul> There is a museum with a huge steam engine & flywheel somewhere in London
[15:45:32] <ganzuul> The aeronautical museum isn't that good though.
[15:45:38] <t12> whats up with machine leveling pads and minimum weights?
[15:45:58] <t12> lack of compression/stability?
[15:46:13] <Loetmichel> t12: no idea, i would suppose that they are not "steady" if the rubber isnt compressed to a certain point
[15:46:25] <t12> lathe finally came in
[15:46:33] <t12> now the slow setting it up
[15:47:44] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: i am just the " drive" for wifes wheelchair. i doubt i get any say in where to go
[15:47:44] <t12> trying to sort out the leveling feet details
[15:48:10] <t12> looking at mighty mounts, i guess if you want to adjust through a hole in a plate rather than something threaded to recieve it
[15:48:22] <t12> you just use nuts on the leveling foot stud?
[15:48:38] <ganzuul> Loetmichel: lol
[15:50:09] <LatheBuilder2> t12: lathes without proper leveling feet loading = chatter. Learned this firsthand with a Big lathe sitting on lumber spacers
[15:51:25] <LatheBuilder2> took it off lumber spacers and levelled it properly. the feet in contact with floor changes damping characteristics...wouldn't have guessed it without seeing it
[15:51:56] <Loetmichel> LatheBuilder2: i think that depends on the structure of the lathe
[15:52:21] <Loetmichel> there are some builds out there that will not chatter even when set up floating on an air cushion ;)
[15:52:35] <LatheBuilder2> yes, and the bigger the lathe the more it depends on the floor.
[15:52:52] <Loetmichel> and others that bend/act as a torsion spring when you look at it angry
[15:53:27] <LatheBuilder2> for commodity grade lathes anyway. Those all granite toolmakers lathes are a different class of stiff
[15:54:40] <LatheBuilder2> my experience is limited with lathes despite my handle. I believe you
[15:55:29] <Loetmichel> especially some chinese small lathes seem to be exeptionally weak on torsion of the bed
[15:56:10] <furrywolf> that's because they're exceptionally weak on using adequate amounts and quality of materials.
[15:56:14] <Loetmichel> and i'ce seen an old german toolmakers lathe (even with the swatiska embedded in its castings) that was not that bigger or heavier but sturdy as HELL
[15:56:24] <t12> i have a sort of strange situation of this being in a house with hardwood floors
[15:56:31] <t12> reinfoced underneath floor to couple to ground
[15:56:39] <t12> lathe will sit on 2 big aluminum plates i found scrap
[15:56:51] <t12> leveling feet between stand, plates
[15:57:38] <t12> this is a weiss
[15:57:45] <t12> the bed is def kinda wimpy
[15:57:50] <Loetmichel> ... and dont get me talking abount the REALLY small chinese ones
[15:57:56] <Loetmichel> like my little C0
[15:58:03] <Loetmichel> THATS a piece of crap ;)
[15:58:33] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkw8uj0nwb20whr/2015-08-08%2013.18.37.jpg?dl=0
[15:58:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=520&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:58:50] <Loetmichel> nice
[15:59:02] <t12> i have a little taig i mounted onto a thorlabs optical plate
[15:59:10] <t12> but its shelved for now
[15:59:13] <t12> that will be the cnc toy
[15:59:20] <Loetmichel> i have one in that size also
[15:59:34] <Loetmichel> but i could lift it on my own, its only 75kg ;)
[16:00:07] <t12> that was one of my design ideas
[16:00:10] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11462&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[16:00:32] <Loetmichel> so a little smaller than yours
[16:00:33] <t12> i wonder when its easier to just
[16:00:42] <t12> make a bed out of an I-beam scrap
[16:00:46] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: how's the optimum working?
[16:00:47] <t12> or a railroad raikl
[16:00:49] <t12> rail
[16:00:56] <DaViruz> i have a optimum mill which i have mixed feelings about..
[16:01:03] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: very well since i mounted a new 3 phase motor
[16:01:04] <zeeshan> can someone do a sanity check
[16:01:04] <zeeshan> N15040 G98 G33.1 Z-.125 K.04921
[16:01:14] <DaViruz> some parts are really nice, some are not
[16:01:19] <t12> the weiss was the smallest cheapest thing i could find with a camlock spindle
[16:01:19] <zeeshan> that gives me a .04921" pitch thread
[16:01:25] <DaViruz> stock motor was crap. spindle lock is crap :/
[16:01:29] <DaViruz> quill lock even
[16:01:30] <zeeshan> aka .04921 * 25.5 = 1.25
[16:01:31] <Loetmichel> but i never get to renew the belt drive
[16:01:33] <zeeshan> 25.4 i mean
[16:02:08] <Loetmichel> the pulley have broken out parts
[16:02:41] <Loetmichel> s/get/got
[16:02:46] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: what are the change gears like?
[16:02:57] <DaViruz> we have some chinese mini lathe at work which is horiffic
[16:02:58] <Loetmichel> as far as i can tell: working
[16:03:04] <Loetmichel> didnt use it that much til now
[16:03:18] <Loetmichel> can only use one spindle speed untiol i fix that pulleys
[16:03:28] <DaViruz> they incude a set of brittle plastic shims you need to use because the gears wont line up properly
[16:03:37] <DaViruz> gears fit poorly on shafts, shims likewise
[16:03:44] <DaViruz> and they tend to crack if you force them
[16:03:59] <Loetmichel> most of the changing gears i have are steel
[16:04:03] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: oh i meant for threading
[16:04:04] <Loetmichel> so no breaking there
[16:04:10] <XXCoder> DaViruz: make new lathe [arts with it?
[16:04:11] <Loetmichel> i mean too
[16:04:24] <DaViruz> yeah the gears are steel, or at least some metal
[16:04:36] <Loetmichel> "steep"
[16:04:39] <DaViruz> it's just a pain that they wont line up without the plastic shims what don't fit :)
[16:04:39] <Loetmichel> "steel" ;)
[16:04:52] <t12> lol
[16:04:54] <t12> metal substutute
[16:05:02] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: chinese steel
[16:05:03] <Loetmichel> i will not use it much in that config either
[16:06:05] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: chinese cast steel= one third sand from the mold, one third air, and the last third the brushed up scrap from the workshop floor ;)
[16:06:21] <XXCoder> lol
[16:06:51] <XXCoder> 1/3 steel, 1/3 random metals, 1/3 random non-metal
[16:07:27] <Loetmichel> you forgot the air bubbles like fucking caves inside ;-)
[16:08:17] <XXCoder> lol
[16:08:26] <XXCoder> new light steel!
[16:08:34] <XXCoder> alloy of steel and air
[16:11:08] <Loetmichel> t12: i intend to make mine full CNC also
[16:11:55] <Loetmichel> including an encoder on the spindle so linuxCNC knows how to make threads without using any gears
[16:11:57] <DaViruz> i'm guessing these are sintered powdered metal
[16:15:30] <ganzuul> Is the Taig a good lathe for a newbie?
[16:15:47] <furrywolf> do you need to make teeny tiny parts? :P
[16:15:52] <ganzuul> Yep.
[16:16:07] <Loetmichel> no idea, i am german, here "optimum" rules the hobby market
[16:16:15] <ganzuul> Link?
[16:16:26] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: for teeny tiny parts: use a C1
[16:16:39] <Loetmichel> ( the c0 is utter crap tho)
[16:17:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14058&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- works barely for PMMA
[16:18:00] <DaViruz> nice santa-beard :)
[16:18:20] <Loetmichel> that beard is white all the time
[16:18:36] <DaViruz> the pmma-beard i mean
[16:18:41] <Loetmichel> but it got a bit longer by that PMMA shavings
[16:19:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15326 <- gone full gray a few years ago ;)
[16:19:31] <t12> the taig i found
[16:19:33] <t12> is just too small
[16:19:43] <t12> like its hard to find ballscrews etc that fit that arent just giant outriggers
[16:20:12] <t12> i've been leaning towards just maybe using their spindle
[16:20:21] <t12> and making the rest from scratch out of linear rail or something
[16:20:37] <Loetmichel> hmm, there are some tiny 12mm*2mm ballscrews out there
[16:20:42] <Loetmichel> had some here
[16:20:54] <ganzuul> I heard that you can get really good accuracy with the Taig, lathe and mill.
[16:21:19] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: for the mill: depends
[16:21:35] <Loetmichel> the original acme leadscrews are not that good i hear
[16:21:43] <t12> i got a sieg x2 and its suprisingly ok
[16:21:54] <t12> except for the general tinyness
[16:22:05] <t12> it def needs alot of work done to it but for small stuff it works well
[16:22:14] <ganzuul> What happens when you give it something as big as will fit?
[16:23:00] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: my homemande cnc knee mill is even smaller than a taig and uses 10mm acme threads... works well tho
[16:23:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[16:23:46] <ganzuul> That's a big spindle. :o
[16:23:56] <t12> is that one of those china ebay spindles?
[16:24:14] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[16:24:17] <Loetmichel> it is
[16:24:21] <t12> hows it work
[16:24:25] <Loetmichel> and its not a big spindle
[16:24:30] <Loetmichel> its a small machine ;)
[16:25:23] <ganzuul> That's pretty quiet...
[16:25:36] <Loetmichel> it can do louder ;)
[16:25:45] <ganzuul> I bet. :)
[16:26:19] <Loetmichel> especiually with large aluminium extrusions
[16:26:21] <t12> think the bearings will hold up
[16:26:31] <t12> or is it all high speed tiny chip
[16:26:59] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEd4LCJ3uWk <- caution, CHATTTER
[16:27:58] <XXCoder> if I find genie, after using trick for infinite wishes, I would wish for steady hands of sugeon for everyone
[16:28:06] <XXCoder> so no more danged shaky handheld videos
[16:28:15] <Loetmichel> sorry
[16:28:46] <t12> that machine looks like it gets alot of general use
[16:28:48] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: not your problem
[16:28:53] <XXCoder> its my problem lol
[16:29:21] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLjMg0Nitk <- in plastics its seriously quiet tho
[16:29:29] <ganzuul> I learned a trick for steady hands while learning to solder! - Keep your elbows tight to your body. It helps a LOT.
[16:30:38] <XXCoder> nice
[16:32:15] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXNhsid6PD0 <- not even THAT loud in 1,5mm sheet aluminium
[16:32:54] <Loetmichel> "only a few holes" ;)
[16:33:09] <Loetmichel> tha last two are for the same product tho
[16:33:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12843
[16:33:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13555
[16:34:13] <Loetmichel> an 2 port usb insert for a 5.25" drive slot on a pc with front doof
[16:34:15] <Loetmichel> door
[16:34:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10886
[16:35:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10883
[16:35:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10880
[16:35:09] <XXCoder> just a few million holes ueaj
[16:35:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10877
[16:35:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10874
[16:35:21] <Loetmichel> see?
[16:35:25] <Loetmichel> not that complicated
[16:35:49] <Loetmichel> but better than breaking off the thumbdrives every time you close the door and forget them ;-)
[16:36:20] <XXCoder> thats pretty awesome
[16:37:27] <Loetmichel> not really THAT much holes... made more ... -> (shielding enclosure for a NAS) http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14184&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[16:37:43] <Loetmichel> 900++ drills on the front and 900++ drills on the back ;)
[16:38:06] <Loetmichel> that took QUITE a while to mill ;)
[16:38:32] <Loetmichel> especially because i did 5
[16:38:41] <Loetmichel> + the prototype
[16:39:41] <fenn> t12: use square structural steel instead of i-beam for the bed, it has higher torsional stiffness and you can fill it with concrete to increase vibration damping
[16:40:14] <Loetmichel> fenn: define structual steel?
[16:40:21] <Loetmichel> square tubes?
[16:41:10] <fenn> like this: http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=10376&step=4&showunits=inches&id=845&top_cat=849
[16:41:31] <fenn> but from a scrapyard :)
[16:41:37] <XXCoder> very safe https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6261026304/hAFE3D289/
[16:42:46] <Sync_> safe enough
[16:43:02] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: how do you shield the lcd window, if at all?
[16:43:05] <DaViruz> on the NAS case
[16:43:33] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: small shard of that: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12454&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[16:43:49] <DaViruz> metallized glass?
[16:43:50] <Loetmichel> i have a few of these 24" monitor panes that had been broken
[16:44:00] <Loetmichel> so i cut such small stuff out of it
[16:44:21] <Loetmichel> glass pane with copper mesh laminated on it
[16:44:30] <Loetmichel> 1mm glass
[16:44:40] <DaViruz> i see
[16:45:15] <XXCoder> looks like GREAT EM blocker,.
[16:45:41] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: if you ever get montior with broken light but working everything else you can build a projector
[16:46:01] <Loetmichel> and i HAD to shield the "lcd"... because its a VFD that emits loads of EM from its 120V smps
[16:46:10] <Sync_> or just buy a real projector
[16:46:26] <XXCoder> Sync_: like eyeclops projector
[16:46:27] <XXCoder> heh
[16:47:01] <DaViruz> oh, yeah i bet a vfd is pretty much a transmitter
[16:47:29] <Deejay> gn8
[16:48:15] <ganzuul> o/
[16:49:00] <Sync_> the vfd is not
[16:49:04] <Sync_> the cabling is
[16:49:29] <Loetmichel> the VFD and its PCB is
[16:49:58] <Loetmichel> the cabling was clad with 2 layers of copper braid underneath the nylon braid
[16:50:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14184&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- you can see the tinned copper braid shine thru the nylon braid on the door hinge
[16:51:11] <XXCoder> love how you always leave caliper in view'
[16:51:15] <XXCoder> great sense of scale.
[16:51:28] <Loetmichel> yes, solemly for size comparison ;)
[16:51:43] <Loetmichel> had no "standard beer bottle" handy at the company
[16:51:55] <fenn> diy projector from monitors can have much higher resolution than any sub-$10k projector
[16:52:19] <Loetmichel> which is used in the german "peters CNC ecke" forum as a standard size comparsion ;)
[16:52:19] <XXCoder> fenn: even really shitty homebrew projector is better than eyeclops lol
[16:52:29] <Loetmichel> fenn: dont need that
[16:52:39] <XXCoder> fenn: but then you can use eyeclops at camp site lol
[16:53:01] <Loetmichel> have a 1024*768 dpl projector in the car. driving it around for two years now, never came to use it ;
[16:53:03] <Loetmichel> )
[16:53:32] <XXCoder> lol
[16:53:36] <DaViruz> Sync_: vacuum fluorescent display, not varible frequency drive
[16:53:37] <Loetmichel> dlp
[16:54:18] <DaViruz> and besides, even in a variable frequency drive the vfd is the transmitter, the cables are the antennas
[16:55:37] <ganzuul> A microwave oven is a very effective EM shield.
[16:55:39] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: o know. had to shield my motor cable for the mini spindle or the steppers would have gone crazy
[16:55:57] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: you would be surprised how not effective
[16:56:08] <Loetmichel> putyour cellphone in there and call it
[16:56:09] <ganzuul> :o
[16:56:13] <ganzuul> hmm
[16:56:20] <XXCoder> microwave is designed to be super effective for 1 cm wavelength
[16:56:26] <Loetmichel> door closed but NOT activated of course
[16:56:27] <Loetmichel> ;_)
[16:56:44] <XXCoder> it turns very effective after on for second or 23
[16:56:46] <XXCoder> er 3
[16:56:54] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[16:56:56] <Loetmichel> yes ;)
[16:57:07] <Loetmichel> and after a few more seconds: RUN
[16:57:23] <ganzuul> The grounding plug is essential to an MWO though
[16:57:29] <Loetmichel> li-ion batteries really dont LIKE that
[16:57:33] <Loetmichel> MWO?
[16:57:41] <ganzuul> Microwave oven
[16:58:00] <ganzuul> Sends 2000V through its chassis.
[16:58:42] <Loetmichel> ah
[16:58:52] <ganzuul> No one designs new electronics this way these days, but the MWO is from a different era, and so gets approved, somehow
[16:59:23] <Mr_Sheesh> grandfathered in
[16:59:32] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: to be honest i really dont like ungrounded stuff at all
[16:59:48] <Loetmichel> especially smps for smartphones and stuff
[16:59:53] <Loetmichel> i have a waterbed
[17:00:15] <Loetmichel> when my "bedside tablet" is charging i can feel the filter current on its backplate
[17:00:28] <Loetmichel> because the heaters for the waterbed ARE grounded :-(
[17:00:32] <ganzuul> ...that's not a nice bedtime thought
[17:00:44] <Loetmichel> its just a light tingling, about 1mA
[17:01:05] <Loetmichel> nothing serious but indicates a really cheap design of the psu
[17:01:09] <ganzuul> Has to be pretty high voltage though.
[17:01:22] <Loetmichel> half mains voltage, as usual
[17:01:24] <zeeshan> XXCoder: rofl
[17:01:37] <Loetmichel> its the mains filters that introduce this current
[17:01:48] <XXCoder> zeeshan: on which link? heh
[17:01:51] <ganzuul> Well, never plug an MWO into enything but a grounded outlet.
[17:01:54] <zeeshan> the fan
[17:01:59] <zeeshan> wedged between a keyboard
[17:02:00] <XXCoder> ahh yea
[17:02:06] <Loetmichel> fan?
[17:02:30] <XXCoder> loet my previous link
[17:02:34] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: my motor cable for the mill spindle: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12560
[17:02:54] <Loetmichel> ... braided tinned copper all the way, two clip-on ferrites
[17:03:24] <Loetmichel> was the only way to stop the steppers for going crazy as soon as the spindle started ;)
[17:04:05] <ganzuul> Universal motor in the spindle?
[17:04:15] <Loetmichel> 3 pahse
[17:04:22] <ganzuul> huh...
[17:04:23] <Loetmichel> 3phase with fvd
[17:04:32] <Loetmichel> vfd
[17:05:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811 <- vfd on the left
[17:05:22] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: sounds like pretty sensitive stepper drivers? but yeah, vfd's can send some pretty nasty stuff thorugh unshielded cables (or motors)
[17:05:31] <ganzuul> Ferrite beads alone didn't help?
[17:05:38] <Loetmichel> not at all
[17:05:40] <XXCoder> would 500w router engine do same?
[17:05:44] <XXCoder> hope not lol
[17:05:50] <Loetmichel> thats an 800W spindle
[17:06:41] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: its not the motor that does that
[17:06:48] <Loetmichel> its the PWM from the VFD
[17:06:53] <XXCoder> ahh
[17:06:57] <XXCoder> I should be fine then
[17:06:58] <XXCoder> thanks
[17:07:05] <Loetmichel> nice square waves on the cabling ;)
[17:07:34] <Loetmichel> if the router is an universal one with brushes: prepare for some shit as soon as they wear down tho
[17:07:48] <pcw_home> 360V square waves into the motor winding/ground capacitance
[17:07:58] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: right ;)
[17:08:12] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: yea probably will, but its short term thing, evenually want to build 53mm spindle holder
[17:08:23] <DaViruz> they can be pretty mean to motor bearings as well
[17:08:26] <XXCoder> so my router can hold nice 53mm diameter spindle
[17:09:00] <pcw_home> the fast risetime = unlimited current causes the VFD ground to bounce to say 30V or so
[17:09:42] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: pretty sensitive....
[17:09:47] <pcw_home> ground is just an autotransformer at MHz...
[17:09:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12808 <- and a bit "open"
[17:10:13] <Loetmichel> thats the back side of the backplate of the mill ;)
[17:10:30] <ganzuul> pcw_home: Never thought about it that way before... Kinda scary, actually.
[17:11:08] <ganzuul> HF power is kinda toxic.
[17:11:10] <DaViruz> Loetmichel: the shoemakers childen have the worst shoes :)
[17:11:12] <Loetmichel> ... should make a bit of enclosure for that shit some time ;)
[17:11:23] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: right ;-)
[17:11:25] <DaViruz> (not sure if that saying translates that well..)
[17:11:35] <Loetmichel> we have the same in germany
[17:11:41] <Loetmichel> just without the children
[17:11:53] <Loetmichel> "der schuster trägt die schlechtesten schuhe"
[17:11:57] <DaViruz> oh
[17:13:33] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: had to improvise a bit after my old PSU had "thrown the hoofs in the air"
[17:14:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12548&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- sometimes a smarphone comes in handy ;)
[17:15:32] <Loetmichel> the old PSU (left) just wasnt beefy enough ... and not overload-protected
[17:15:42] <Loetmichel> main SMPS fet exploded
[17:16:29] <Loetmichel> so i digged in the "spare parts box" and came up with that trasformer there
[17:16:56] <Loetmichel> mounted it on a bit of alu-Dibond, thrown in a few regulators and rectifiers-> done
[17:17:07] <Loetmichel> BEEFY supply for the stepper drivers ;)
[17:18:08] <Loetmichel> btw: alu-dibond is a NEAT material to make enclosures!
[17:18:21] <DaViruz> *googling*
[17:19:11] <Loetmichel> (laminated 0,2mm aluminium-> 2,4mm pvc or PE, 0,2mm aluminium)
[17:19:29] <ganzuul> oooh
[17:19:46] <DaViruz> how'd they get it to stick to the PE?
[17:19:53] <Loetmichel> heat?
[17:20:11] <DaViruz> in my experience PE sticks to nothing, ever
[17:20:12] <DaViruz> :)
[17:20:26] <DaViruz> but with a rough Al finish and heat perhaps
[17:20:30] <Loetmichel> DaViruz: unless you extrude it between the plates
[17:21:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=775&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:22:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=772&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:22:18] <Loetmichel> thats the old CNC driver enclosure
[17:22:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=769&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:23:01] <Loetmichel> just mill a v-grooove at every bend to 80% material thickness...
[17:23:04] <Loetmichel> fold by hand
[17:23:06] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:24:08] <DaViruz> neat!
[17:24:18] <Loetmichel> ... and remember that it IS aluminium... which conducts electricity... so use an earthed plug AND be aware of swarf...
[17:24:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10609
[17:24:38] <Loetmichel> ... i wasnt
[17:24:43] <DaViruz> though the outside is isolated from the inside..
[17:24:44] <DaViruz> :)
[17:25:43] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10603&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- when it exploded i found quite a bit of ali swarf inside...
[17:25:58] <Loetmichel> one had hit the mains and the inner wall...
[17:26:42] <ganzuul> Note to self: put electronics above machine; not below.
[17:26:49] <Loetmichel> right ;)
[17:27:49] <ganzuul> Is there a name for lathes & chucks witch let you put material right through the chuck and poking out the other end?
[17:28:08] <Loetmichel> isnt that on EVERY lathe?
[17:28:13] <ganzuul> hmm
[17:29:00] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: every work with milling frozen paraffin wax?
[17:29:27] <Loetmichel> no, but wit a mix of stearin wax and shopping bags
[17:29:35] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: not really, I saw some that dont have that
[17:29:37] <Loetmichel> which worked quite well
[17:30:04] <Loetmichel> (or was it paraffin? cant remember)
[17:30:19] <CaptHindsight> wondering about the wax without the additives since it's for food
[17:30:20] <ganzuul> candles is paraffin
[17:30:48] <Loetmichel> ganzuul: not neccessarily: there are paraffin, stearin and bees wax candles
[17:31:16] <Loetmichel> and some "funderal lights" with some "stiffened petroleum" however they managed that
[17:31:19] <ganzuul> :o
[17:31:27] <Loetmichel> funeral
[17:31:31] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/album.php?albumid=113&attachmentid=12313
[17:32:03] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: looks like you have to login to view
[17:32:28] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: but you can mill normal paraffin just fine. you just have to wait for winder
[17:32:29] <Loetmichel> winter
[17:32:34] <CaptHindsight> not my message anyway
[17:32:59] <Loetmichel> beacuse it works better at 15°c than at the 35°c i have in here right now ,)
[17:33:07] <Loetmichel> and you have to get it to stick to your bed
[17:33:34] <CaptHindsight> chilled wax with CO2 nozzle next to cutting area to cool wax and move chips
[17:33:58] <XXCoder> why? just get an ac
[17:34:00] <Loetmichel> ... i would suggest using a particle board as a "sacrificial surface" bolted to the table and then heat the underside of the paraffin block with a flame and "melt" it into the particle board
[17:34:04] <XXCoder> pump entire cold air at max to it
[17:34:52] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: ac would work, too
[17:35:01] <Loetmichel> i meant that 15°C is enough
[17:35:08] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: to big to fit on a desk
[17:35:11] <Loetmichel> it dosent have to be below zero
[17:35:12] <XXCoder> and probably pre-existing equipment too. many do have ac
[17:35:19] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: it dont have to be on desk
[17:35:21] <XXCoder> hoses
[17:35:43] <Loetmichel> i dont
[17:35:45] <Loetmichel> sadly
[17:36:06] <Loetmichel> its 35.4°c in here right now
[17:36:22] <Loetmichel> ... and its juuust past midnight in germany...
[17:36:45] <XXCoder> 24c here
[17:36:48] <XXCoder> afternoon
[17:37:06] <CaptHindsight> then again most kitchens have refrigeration and it's only minutes from block of wax to finished part
[17:37:35] <JT-Shop> http://ibin.co/2BTgAu1vTL2N
[17:37:42] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: can also do homebrew ac
[17:37:50] <XXCoder> lots ice and hose though it
[17:37:50] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: looks hot :)
[17:38:01] <JT-Shop> aluminum scrapper
[17:38:03] <XXCoder> freeze few jugs of water
[17:38:06] <zeeshan> nice!
[17:38:12] <XXCoder> buy 2 or 3 bags of ice it will last quite a while
[17:38:17] <JT-Shop> I'm building one one day when I have time
[17:38:17] <Loetmichel> does that look like that in reality
[17:38:27] <Loetmichel> or is it the cam picking up IR?
[17:38:44] <JT-Shop> yea, they get so hot you can almost see through them
[17:40:01] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: is that with just a few holes for fresh air near the bottom?
[17:40:18] <ganzuul> I want to make hydrostatic stuff... Leadscrews and ways. I figure, I could retrofit a Taig lathe with hydrostatic leadscrews that I make myself on the same lathe. Maybe? Or maybe use a smaller lathe to make a bigger lathe? :D
[17:40:47] <CaptHindsight> or is the bottom off the top drum?
[17:43:57] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: have you made soft jaws with v's in them before
[17:44:00] <JT-Shop> yes the bottom is open for the most part
[17:44:31] <JT-Shop> you leave an inch or two of the bottom so the melting globs fall into the water cleanly
[17:44:39] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, no
[17:44:43] <zeeshan> darn :P
[17:44:57] <JT-Shop> I have some hardened V jaws, why
[17:45:10] <zeeshan> im just wondering what size to make the V
[17:45:23] <JT-Shop> what size and shape of part?
[17:45:30] <zeeshan> i basically need to make 10 of these parts and they are 2.25" od
[17:45:38] <zeeshan> i wanna put em in the vise and not have to recenter them every time
[17:45:51] <zeeshan> so iwas thinking making a V soft jaw for the fixed jaw
[17:46:22] <JT-Shop> center in which direction?
[17:47:05] <JT-Shop> Y and Z are fixed if you just toss them in the vise
[17:47:43] <zeeshan> taking a snap
[17:48:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvG_356itPs japanese mini Segway "WalkCar"
[17:48:50] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/6BGiPSi.png
[17:48:52] <zeeshan> part
[17:49:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/fxXmf1W.jpg
[17:49:02] <zeeshan> jaw i was thinking of
[17:49:44] <zeeshan> hoping that jaw will keep X Y Z position
[17:49:51] <zeeshan> (if i have parallels under part)
[17:50:01] <zeeshan> so i just need to load a new part, run program and repeat
[17:50:21] <JT-Shop> http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-vise-stop-single-side/
[17:50:23] <renesis> capthindsight: haha, like 90s skateboards
[17:50:48] <JT-Shop> I just use an adjustable stop that is centered up on the diameter for a part like that
[17:50:50] <renesis> thats neat but big crack on a sidewalk take it out
[17:51:25] <CaptHindsight> renesis: yeah, needs pretty smooth pavement
[17:51:38] <renesis> i like this commercial, heh
[17:51:46] <JT-Shop> or one like this http://www.roviproducts.com/Mill_Stop.htm
[17:51:50] <renesis> the old lady was pretty cool
[17:52:11] <renesis> haha walk or walkcar?
[17:52:52] <JT-Shop> http://www.lighttoolsupply.com/catalog/Product/SPI-5-Axis-Milling-Stop?productID=343083
[17:53:06] <zeeshan> wouldnt the v do the same thing?
[17:53:20] <JT-Shop> yea but then it is a special fixture
[17:53:38] <CaptHindsight> renesis: vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76d60M_4DuU Self Balancing Electric Scooter
[17:53:45] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: can you describe the setup w/ the pro arm
[17:53:49] <zeeshan> you put a v-block in there
[17:53:57] <zeeshan> then hold the round part on top of parallels
[17:54:10] <zeeshan> and then butt it against the prostop?
[17:54:11] <renesis> hey i think i saw someone with that when i was driving home
[17:54:47] <renesis> made me nervous im like, youre gonna segway your ass into my car stahp pls
[17:54:50] <JT-Shop> I usually just put parallels under the part if needed and use the stop to fix X and clamp it in the center of the vise
[17:55:01] <JT-Shop> no v-block usually
[17:55:34] <zeeshan> okay cool :)
[17:55:56] <JT-Shop> are you just drilling tapping or reaming holes?
[17:56:01] <zeeshan> no
[17:56:05] <zeeshan> machining the outside too
[17:56:20] <zeeshan> its easier for me to do on the mill vs lathe
[17:56:29] <zeeshan> and my lathe is a pos
[17:56:33] <zeeshan> so i try to avoid it whenever i can
[17:57:05] <JT-Shop> in that case I would drill and tap or ream the holes then take a piece of scrap and bolt the parts down to machine the OD
[17:57:46] <zeeshan> i gotta flip the part upside down too
[17:58:01] <zeeshan> like im machining all the holes and od first
[17:58:12] <zeeshan> then flipping it upside down to machine it to length and the protrusion
[17:58:25] <JT-Shop> how are you going to hold it to machine the OD?
[17:58:47] <zeeshan> was hoping to grab .125" of it between a v block and the jaw
[17:58:48] <JT-Shop> oh your leaving extra to hold on to then
[17:58:50] <zeeshan> yes
[17:59:03] <zeeshan> ive never done this before though
[17:59:10] <JT-Shop> not a good idea... just imagine parts flying across your shop
[17:59:11] <zeeshan> im worried when i flip it, itll be out of center
[17:59:38] <zeeshan> i can increase it to 0.25"
[17:59:41] <JT-Shop> I would do all the top side ops then flip over and bolt down
[18:00:01] <JT-Shop> machine a boss to fit the center bore
[18:00:07] <JT-Shop> in your fixture plate
[18:01:09] <JT-Shop> or mill some flats on the bottom side to hold in the vise
[18:02:56] <zeeshan> will take a look at what scrap i have
[18:03:59] <JT-Shop> some 6061 is easy to use for fixtures and you have two sides
[18:21:00] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is andy's carousel comp in the docs yet? not sure it's gonna make it in the 2.7 but it looks like it might
[18:22:05] <fenn> zeeshan: if you're making it from a rectangular slab it might be easier to hold the bottom half of the slab in the vise while machining the top half, then flip it over and hold the cylindrical part in your vee. that way you have almost 50% of the part supported by the vise or vee block at all times
[18:22:20] <zeeshan> making it out of round stock
[18:24:23] <Tom_itx> zeeshan that hub adapter is a lathe part with a 2nd op for holes
[18:24:36] <zeeshan> read above
[18:25:02] <Tom_itx> use a recess tool
[18:25:41] <Tom_itx> if you were making many that would be a good approach but since you're not...
[18:26:38] <Tom_itx> your path doesn't look very optimized for those holes
[18:27:33] <fenn> there's only 7 holes
[18:27:47] <Tom_itx> that matters in production
[18:28:57] <Tom_itx> i always try to approach a job to be efficient if possible
[18:30:22] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you gonna line your barrel with firebrick?
[18:33:26] <Tom_itx> http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/smelter/p1040233.jpg
[19:16:26] <zeeshan> just about now
[19:16:30] <zeeshan> i wish i had some angle blocks
[19:16:34] <zeeshan> 30 60 45 doesnt cut it
[19:17:23] <Tom_itx> sine plane
[19:17:28] <zeeshan> damn thing is too fat
[19:17:44] <zeeshan> how do iexplain this
[19:17:56] <zeeshan> my sine plate is 2" wide
[19:18:02] <zeeshan> my part is 1.875" wide
[19:18:19] <zeeshan> when i try to close the jaws for the vise, it grabs the sine plate rater than my part!! :P
[19:20:11] <furrywolf> so put a parallel next to the part?
[19:21:16] <zeeshan> http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/DSC_1008.jpg
[19:21:19] <zeeshan> my sine plate looks like this
[19:21:40] <zeeshan> similar
[19:22:05] <andypugh> There were no taxis at the station when I returned from a day of machining in London. (Fixing the fire engine). So I walked the 2.5 miles home. It was harder work than normal, I just weighed my backpack and it was 32lb. A set of Burnerd EC collets. lathe tools and inserts.
[19:22:21] <zeeshan> andypugh: damn
[19:22:22] <furrywolf> so... why isn't putting a parallel next to the part going to fix it?
[19:22:31] <zeeshan> because when i clamp it down
[19:22:35] <zeeshan> ill be machining the parallel
[19:22:43] <zeeshan> it sits too high in the vise the sine plate
[19:23:01] <andypugh> zeeshan: It’s OK, it’s legal to be a pedestrian in the UK
[19:23:02] <furrywolf> so machine a spacer of the right shape to not be in the way, then
[19:23:21] <zeeshan> furrywolf: angle blocks are easier
[19:23:50] <furrywolf> so machine some angle blocks. :P
[19:23:54] <zeeshan> haha
[19:28:11] * furrywolf bets zee can CAD some angle blocks in under a minute
[19:28:26] <zeeshan> furrywolf: im just gonna do it the good ol way
[19:28:30] <zeeshan> angle it
[19:28:38] <zeeshan> sweep indicator 2"
[19:28:40] <zeeshan> find error
[19:28:43] <zeeshan> correct
[19:28:44] <zeeshan> done
[19:29:25] <zeeshan> brb going to get some FOOD
[19:29:36] <zeeshan> andypugh: why didnt you hitch hike
[19:30:01] <andypugh> It was past midnight.
[19:31:01] <furrywolf> yay laptop speakers... the same music that makes my living room speakers thump makes my laptop make a tiny little "pop" noise. lol
[20:00:37] <zeeshan> furrywolf: haha
[20:00:47] <zeeshan> youre gonna blow em up
[20:34:49] <XXCoder> bah!
[20:34:55] <XXCoder> 4 bolts is too long
[20:35:02] <XXCoder> so I cant complete build
[20:40:57] <XXCoder> whats this screw thing with round head for hex driver for?
[20:41:00] <XXCoder> *called
[20:45:54] <Jymmm> hex cap screws?
[20:46:02] <Jymmm> hex head cap screws?
[20:46:05] <XXCoder> hex socket apparently
[20:48:02] <XXCoder> "m5 x 55" means m5, 55 mm length?
[20:48:43] <XXCoder> excellent found what I wanted
[20:49:21] <Jymmm> a pot of gold and three midget hookers?
[20:49:37] <XXCoder> nah
[20:49:39] <jdh> socket head cap screw
[20:49:58] <XXCoder> a completely claim-free huge pile of gold. looks like former dragon nest
[20:49:58] <Jymmm> nah? what do you mean nah?
[20:50:26] <jdh> he wanted 4
[20:50:41] <XXCoder> that few? hmm
[20:50:52] <Jymmm> Dammmmn, jdh kinky lil guy aint he
[20:51:18] <XXCoder> lol
[20:51:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder: OD'ed in viagra or sumtin?
[20:51:26] <Jymmm> on*
[20:51:32] <XXCoder> seriously though, found exact bolts I wanted
[20:51:38] <XXCoder> exact length even
[20:51:54] <jdh> fortunately, you wanted a normal length
[20:52:00] <Jymmm> That's NOT what she said.
[20:52:12] <XXCoder> orginials are 60 mm which is too long for my machine
[20:52:19] <XXCoder> I tried saw off, didnt work
[20:52:43] <jdh> why not?
[20:52:54] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Bobbit fan huh?
[20:53:16] <XXCoder> bobbit lol
[20:54:06] <andypugh> XXCoder: Why not shorten the too-long bolts?
[20:54:18] <XXCoder> andypugh: read again lol
[20:54:35] <andypugh> I shorten bolts all the time.
[20:54:39] <Jymmm> angle grinder?
[20:54:52] <XXCoder> hacksaw which is likely not good
[20:54:57] <andypugh> You need to saw it off, then file the end flat
[20:55:08] <andypugh> Then file a 45 degree chanfer.
[20:55:22] <Jymmm> and three nuts
[20:55:31] <andypugh> Another tip is to put a nut on the bolt before you cut it, then taking that nut off re-form the end treads
[20:55:50] <XXCoder> need to find those tools which isnt very likely
[20:55:52] <Jymmm> and three nuts for threaded rod
[20:56:07] <XXCoder> andypugh: wish I did that, good tip for next time! I'm pretty sure its ruined now
[20:56:19] <Jymmm> dremmel?
[20:57:25] <XXCoder> dunno where it is now. garages bit messy now
[20:57:39] <XXCoder> we just bought in final stuff from storage as well as volkwagon 1967
[20:57:48] <jdh> http://i.imgur.com/oW9Rr1Q.gifv
[20:58:06] <Jymmm> for threaded rod, put on three nuts. lock two of them against each other so you can hold the rod from turning,cut off the excess, then back off the 3rd nut to reform the thread where it was cut.
[20:58:23] <XXCoder> Jymmm: thanks :) next time
[20:58:49] <XXCoder> jdh: so, when does it complete cut? LOL
[20:58:52] <XXCoder> amazing loop.
[20:59:51] <Jymmm> looks fake
[20:59:59] <jdh> http://i.imgur.com/G0hN9TP.gifv
[21:00:14] <jdh> cool bit, wtf it is
[21:00:47] <Jymmm> an insert?
[21:01:23] <XXCoder> Jymmm: yeah at work we use a lot of big drills with inserts
[21:01:27] <Jymmm> man, those so look they were created in blender of something =)
[21:01:41] <XXCoder> mucho cheapo to replaceo insertso
[21:01:44] <Jymmm> (3D renderings)
[21:01:48] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:02:04] <XXCoder> you can see shadow fade in at bottom right for saw one
[21:02:15] <XXCoder> thats where it transitions on loop
[21:02:17] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I bet, I've never seen insert mills like that beofre though.
[21:02:59] <XXCoder> those are awesome.
[21:03:16] <jdh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lytkc2HXj8
[21:03:21] <Jymmm> XXCoder: 4 midget hookers with inserts!!!
[21:03:23] <XXCoder> jdh: I bet can blend second one
[21:03:25] <jdh> original for the drill
[21:03:27] <XXCoder> lol
[21:03:55] <XXCoder> Jymmm: theres this weird anf BIG drill with dial
[21:04:06] <XXCoder> you can turn dial with hex tool to change drill diameter
[21:04:17] <XXCoder> extreme precision. extreme price too ouch
[21:04:31] <Jymmm> XXCoder: cool
[21:04:58] <Jymmm> the high speed camera makes those videos look fake =)
[21:05:05] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:05:28] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90VyvOhPmA0
[21:05:31] <XXCoder> so fake. lol
[21:06:51] <Jymmm> XXCoder: No, that's legit. The show "Time Warp" was all about high speed cameras
[21:07:06] <XXCoder> I know its real
[21:07:07] <Jymmm> was on Discovery Channel
[21:07:10] <Jymmm> ah
[21:07:10] <XXCoder> but looks fake lol
[21:07:15] <Jymmm> true
[21:07:25] <XXCoder> look at ballon deform!
[21:08:34] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3q4_jZv8M
[21:09:45] <XXCoder> trap jumped up so hard egg broke lol
[21:11:29] <Jymmm> Anyone know where to get good (used?) swivel stud casters CHEAP? 1/4-20 thread, 4" wheel
[21:11:44] <Jymmm> I need 20
[21:13:01] <furrywolf> "For science!"
[21:13:21] <XXCoder> hey
[21:14:20] <XXCoder> 5:25 or so dang look at ballon
[21:15:06] * furrywolf has no interest in watching a 9+ minute video.
[21:16:58] <XXCoder> video link was not directed towards you fur.
[21:17:02] <malcom2073> Youtube needs a fast forward button
[21:17:45] <furrywolf> it has seeking, it just works poorly...
[21:17:55] <malcom2073> I mean like a 5x 10x button
[21:18:24] <XXCoder> malcom2073: you will never have fast forward on youtube
[21:18:39] <XXCoder> to save bandwidth they try to stream you just enough to keep video playing
[21:18:40] <furrywolf> download and play with mplayer. :)
[21:18:49] <XXCoder> indeed
[21:19:47] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Odd, I've never seen that
[21:20:10] <XXCoder> the "download" graph light gray is bullshit
[21:20:39] <XXCoder> you can click in middle and it will "forget" such progress and start download from that point and little after
[21:21:03] <XXCoder> I use youtube control to force download buffer bit larger
[21:21:12] <XXCoder> no more ads too
[21:21:14] <malcom2073> Hmm... also not seen that, you using the html5 player?
[21:21:28] <XXCoder> yes but was same for flash player too
[21:21:37] <malcom2073> I can skip back and forth anywhere in the grey downloaded area, no re-downloading or delay
[21:22:03] <malcom2073> Now, when I'm on my home internet, it does do that, but that is really slow internet heh
[21:22:37] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Set your quality to low, rather than leaving it on "Auto". Auto will set the quality to a point where it downloads only slightly faster than the play rate
[21:22:39] <furrywolf> joy... reading the news. good ol'-fashioned heist at a local gun store. cutting power a day in advance to kill the cameras, rappeling down from a skylight, etc... and now the local tweekers have a few dozen extra handguns.
[21:22:54] <XXCoder> yay more murder
[21:25:53] <XXCoder> any of you guys ever bought 2-4-6 block?
[21:26:14] <malcom2073> I need to
[21:27:29] <XXCoder> I want to, which is different from need to lol
[21:27:48] <malcom2073> Eh, I also want to :P
[21:27:52] <malcom2073> I *need* to get my mill running
[21:28:35] <XXCoder> too bad I never went far enough on internship to make 123 blocks
[21:28:42] <XXCoder> but I bought a pair
[21:29:27] <XXCoder> I still wonder why there is no hole blocks
[21:29:32] <XXCoder> 123NH
[21:32:34] <malcom2073> Hmm, no reason *not* to have holes
[21:32:36] <malcom2073> holes can be useful
[21:34:37] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/1-2-3-BLOCK-WITH-NO-HOLES/dp/B00DVTMBPY
[21:35:11] <XXCoder> I suppose one advange is its heavy
[21:36:29] <malcom2073> Wow 123 blocks are cheap. I suppose they wouldn't be expensive.
[21:36:52] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:36:59] <XXCoder> I bought mine for real cheap
[21:37:05] <XXCoder> havent checked accuracy yet lol
[21:37:23] <XXCoder> 235 seem to average 70 bucks
[21:37:25] <XXCoder> 246
[21:38:51] <furrywolf> I have a lot of projects before I need 123 blocks. and I need a vise first too...
[21:38:54] <XXCoder> is there such thing as 48(12)? lol
[21:41:10] <furrywolf> what, and skip 369? :P
[21:41:11] <XXCoder> $999 (sale! see price in cart!) $990
[21:44:32] <XXCoder> usa flag really sells it. probably made in chinese http://www.amazon.com/TrueRNG-Hardware-Random-Number-Generator/dp/B00T0XKAQM/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1439086859&sr=8-18&keywords=random
[21:45:15] <tjtr33> 123 blox w no holes are very useful for EDM demos ;)
[21:45:23] <tjtr33> I clamp 2 together and cut skinny ribs down the split line,
[21:45:29] <tjtr33> then open to show people the wear and surface.
[21:45:30] <tjtr33> so useful for tiny molds too
[21:45:39] <XXCoder> not bad
[21:45:45] <XXCoder> nice accurate surface too
[21:47:01] <XXCoder> search "random" in amazon
[21:47:08] <XXCoder> results are... pretty random
[21:48:28] <tjtr33> we found that the cavity for an edm'ed rib was large at top and bottom, skinny in middle.
[21:48:37] <tjtr33> The electrodes were so thin that orbiting made them 'swim fin',
[21:48:45] <tjtr33> so i designed a new pattern to avoid circular motion in XY,
[21:48:47] <tjtr33> I orbited the rib on the faces in ZX/ZY to shear the oil resistance.
[21:52:22] <LatheBuilder2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwkoGtsaG9c
[21:52:32] <malcom2073> First result for random: http://www.amazon.com/Dynamo-Minibar-Bored-Button/dp/B007TOFLPO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439087351&sr=8-1&keywords=random
[22:01:45] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yeah
[22:06:49] <XXCoder> checking amazon results for "ordered"
[22:07:08] <XXCoder> first result? "who ordered truckload of dung"
[22:07:15] <XXCoder> *this
[22:07:49] <XXCoder> heh ordered is as random as random
[22:13:04] <furrywolf> you know they're building a fire line in rugged terrain when they bring in a team of pack mules to move supplies. lol
[22:13:41] <furrywolf> why, in 2015, do we still not have an offroad vehicle to compete with a mule? lol
[22:14:19] <XXCoder> when we land on new planet, first thing to offload is mules
[22:14:32] <furrywolf> mules IN SPACE!
[22:14:33] <XXCoder> so they can haul high tech stuff out
[22:15:40] <furrywolf> "Estimated Containment DateMonday August 31st, 2015 approx. 12:00 AM" approximately.
[22:16:02] * furrywolf considers specifying a time with that estimate to be excessive precision
[22:16:16] <SpeedEvil> We do.
[22:16:24] <SpeedEvil> It's just it's $400K per
[22:16:28] <XXCoder> Spock
[22:16:31] <XXCoder> or Data
[22:16:53] <SpeedEvil> It's probably cheaper using mexicans.
[23:14:12] <zeeshan> that seco tool looks beast
[23:20:31] * zeeshan was wondering why the hell i was trying to rotate my work piece when i can just rotate the head :P
[23:21:14] * furrywolf wonders why the hell zeeshan mixes third-person and first-person in one sentance.
[23:21:34] * zeeshan wonders why is furry still not sleeping
[23:21:55] <furrywolf> soon. it's 9pm...
[23:24:16] <furrywolf> reading the news before getting ready for bed
[23:56:17] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime