#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-07

[00:02:21] <furrywolf> oh, forgot to mention, alt is Hitachi.
[00:08:08] <just_pink> find it
[00:13:59] <furrywolf> well, you seem to have wandered off.
[00:14:02] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep.
[00:14:25] <just_pink> good night
[00:29:55] <just_pink> done!
[00:43:24] <just_pink> *--
[00:46:18] <just_pink> t7iuyr78][poiurdf gh7854\]p[]\401
[00:46:20] <just_pink> \]
[00:46:24] <just_pink> \]
[00:46:32] <just_pink> oppps
[00:46:48] <just_pink> clean the keyboard
[01:17:24] <just_pink> someone here?
[01:17:28] <just_pink> life?
[02:08:13] <Deejay> moin
[02:55:56] <fenn> moo...
[03:16:56] <justanotheruser> oh
[06:13:33] <XXCoder> spline: nice!
[06:13:38] <XXCoder> whats fees like?
[06:14:39] <spline> $75 a month for "pro" membership which is 24/7
[06:14:40] <spline> small locker
[06:14:53] <spline> discounts on training. You can use anything except the obvious w/o getting certified or paying for training
[06:15:03] <spline> like CNC laser training is Sunday, which I signed up for
[06:15:18] <spline> free for "pro" (mine) and its like $40 if you're a reg member
[06:15:31] <spline> http://www.makeitlabs.com/about/equipment/
[06:15:39] <spline> that's the equipment there. 6k sqft and they're moving into a larger building
[06:15:53] <spline> awesome group there. smart people into everything known to man
[06:16:07] <spline> they were testing gps on quadcopers last night, which was cool
[06:16:32] <spline> and I know tig/mig so im gonna get the "test" (basically just making sure you know how to use) which is awesome
[06:16:44] <XXCoder> not too bad
[06:16:52] <XXCoder> I saw some with $300+ prices
[06:16:54] <spline> not at all. it's insane the stuff they have
[06:16:56] <spline> yeap
[06:17:08] <spline> around the boston area, there's a ton of hackerspaces, but those are usually just laptops+whiteboard
[06:17:11] <spline> this is definitely more makerspace
[06:17:54] <spline> and most stuff, you just bring the consumable
[06:18:10] <spline> like the plasma cnc training, it's $45 for me and then $35 for the shield cup, electrode and tip (no markup) and everyone maintains their own
[06:18:13] <spline> completely fair there
[06:18:36] <spline> the 80mW laser is awesome. a guy was doing a wood carving for his wife last night on "raster?' mode but it took 45 minutes
[06:18:39] <spline> water cooled and everything
[06:18:59] <spline> they have a cnc/mill class saturday hmmm
[06:19:06] <spline> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/milling-machine-tool-training-tickets-3880432478
[06:19:24] <spline> I saw a sherline there, a cheaper 12" by 12" mill
[06:19:35] <spline> so its great to get exposed to this w/o having to pay for a college-course
[06:20:51] <spline> but they hacked the cnc plasma/cnc laser so you have to sign-in with your rfid badge, checking for the cert/training
[06:21:01] <spline> for obvious reasons but cool
[06:21:30] <spline> replicator 2 (3d printer) next sat, too
[06:21:37] <spline> ah damn
[07:17:04] <XXCoder> pre-cnc interesting http://makezine.com/2015/08/05/old-tech-drills-any-shaped-hole/
[07:23:45] <jthornton> 15.114285714 stone... getting closer yea! only 26.596346019 uncia to get to 15 stone
[07:24:41] <XXCoder> I dont know why country thats using metric still uses stones
[07:25:45] <jthornton> do they still use stones in the UK?
[07:25:57] <XXCoder> no idea
[07:25:58] <SpeedEvil> Stones are arguably a better scale for adult weight than kilos
[07:26:10] <XXCoder> I use even more antique imperial system
[07:26:15] <XXCoder> usa sucks on that aspect
[07:26:47] <SpeedEvil> Stones are sometimes used, yes.
[07:26:54] <SpeedEvil> But kilos are - probably - now more common
[07:27:01] <jthornton> I just use it for fun
[07:27:23] <XXCoder> I will throw stones at next person who uses stones
[07:27:25] <XXCoder> kidding
[07:28:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/weight.gif - short-term weight variation can mean that kilos are basically useless unless you're actually tracking daily
[07:29:06] <XXCoder> unit too small eh
[07:29:12] <XXCoder> or too large?
[07:29:43] <SpeedEvil> (and averaging)
[07:35:54] <spline> XXCoder: australia
[07:35:58] <spline> iirc but I think tehy're on metric now
[07:36:19] <spline> my parents lived in sydney in the late 70s. I still use the scale they had there (stones at top; jg @ bottom)
[07:36:36] <spline> only reason I keep it is it goes to 300lbs (iirc 14.1 lbs to a stone)
[07:36:44] <spline> so I'll weigh projects on it
[07:38:10] <XXCoder> lol ok
[07:39:09] <spline> 14lbs or 6.3kg per stone
[07:39:20] <spline> The stone continues in customary use in the United Kingdom and in Ireland for measuring body weight, but was prohibited for commercial use in the UK by the Weights and Measures Act of 1985.
[07:40:33] <spline> but im sure it's "not calibrated" even though you can set the base. still is great when I need to get an estimate of weight on something and don't need to be precise like for shipping a package
[07:42:31] <spline> fun pic: what an electric stove looks like to a digital infrared camera (720nm conversion) http://i.imgur.com/0abYB2Y.jpg
[07:42:39] <spline> just snapped that
[07:44:08] <JT-Shop> so much for riding this morning... I have a broken spoke
[07:44:25] <spline> road bike?
[07:48:20] <JT-Shop> mountain bike
[07:48:47] <XXCoder> spline: geez thats bright
[07:49:50] <spline> yeah
[07:49:53] <spline> you only see the rings
[07:49:58] <spline> that was on for about 20 seconds
[07:50:10] <spline> was reading that it gives off near infrared, 720 to I think 1500
[07:50:22] <spline> but the heat is coming from ones above that, where the lens on any camera, no matter the conversion will not "see"
[07:50:27] <spline> you'd need an actual thermal imaging camera
[07:50:30] <spline> (expensive)
[07:50:31] <XXCoder> cool
[07:50:33] <XXCoder> well
[07:50:41] <XXCoder> you can see infried yourseklf
[07:50:44] <XXCoder> some of it anyway
[07:50:48] <spline> I wanted to see if I could get a pic of welds as they're cooling down
[07:50:48] <spline> yeah
[07:50:56] <XXCoder> I made googles and saw world like that
[07:51:01] <spline> my canon dslr there has the 720nm conversion, so I cannot see below that
[07:51:08] <XXCoder> pretty amazing. I was tempted to go cycling with it but decided not to.
[07:51:20] <spline> and ill have to check the band but I recall virtually any normal camera just cannot see above 920-950-1000nm
[07:51:23] <XXCoder> spline: no no DIRECTLY.
[07:51:27] <XXCoder> no camera
[07:51:47] <spline> so you can see above 720nm? iirc that's when most visible light stops
[07:51:50] <spline> (for most people)
[07:52:04] <XXCoder> everyone can. range dont cut off and has edge
[07:52:09] <XXCoder> it drops down very fast
[07:52:18] <XXCoder> but there is TINY part of IR we can see
[07:52:19] <spline> yeah, like sound
[07:52:40] <XXCoder> you block off everything and what remains is IR and you can actually see world. you sure as heck cant see indoors though.
[07:52:50] <spline> oh that'd make sense then
[07:53:04] <XXCoder> lemme find some info
[07:53:07] <spline> www.maxmax.com does the conversions but has a lot of tech info
[07:53:19] <spline> them, kolarivision and lifepixel are the big d/IR guys
[07:53:29] <skunkworks> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,30608.0.html
[07:53:43] <XXCoder> you need 3 sheets of congo blue filter discs, and one disc primary red gel filter
[07:53:48] <spline> http://www.maxmax.com/spectral_response.htm
[07:53:48] <SpeedEvil> 730nm is quite visible.
[07:54:26] <XXCoder> spline: then you make googles. I had to double mine so it has 6 congo blues and 2 primary red gel filters so I could see it properly
[07:54:27] <SpeedEvil> It looks like a very, very deep red - about a thousandth as bright as normal light of the same wattage
[07:54:41] <XXCoder> my eyes is VERY good on seeing unfortunately
[07:55:10] <spline> ah cool
[07:55:19] <SpeedEvil> For example a 1kW source of 730nm light will illuminate a room as well to your eyes as a typical 20W halogen light-bulb
[07:55:34] <XXCoder> spline: both is buyable from amazon. few bucks each, shipping is most expensive
[07:55:54] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, i thought they were shipping mach4?
[07:55:54] <SpeedEvil> 808nm is down at a millionth.
[07:56:21] <skunkworks> Tom_itx, it is still pretty beta... only a few motion controls work with it.
[07:56:54] <Tom_itx> We still recommend to use Mach3 if you don't want to wait and necessarily want to use Mach4 then use some other company motion controller
[07:56:59] <Tom_itx> aka go use linuxcnc!
[07:57:59] <skunkworks> good read http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,30530.0.html
[07:58:41] <XXCoder> spline: http://amasci.com/amateur/irgoggl.html
[07:58:43] <XXCoder> enjoy
[08:02:14] <Tom_itx> i'd hate to be one of their lawyers
[08:04:33] <spline> oh cool
[08:04:34] <spline> reading now
[08:05:01] <XXCoder> btw that guy is weird lol
[08:05:35] <spline> part II on how do they work
[08:05:37] <spline> good description
[08:05:59] <XXCoder> I first read it before he discovered congo blue trick
[08:06:12] <XXCoder> I couldnt do it because orginial was too expensive
[08:25:05] <zeeshan|2> hi
[08:25:13] <zeeshan|2> =D
[08:26:01] <XXCoder> hey zeeshan|2
[08:26:20] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i think im swapping to mach3
[08:31:59] <XXCoder> why?
[08:34:31] <zeeshan|2> cause i'm arrogant apparently
[08:34:36] <zeeshan|2> :D: :D:D
[08:34:49] <zeeshan|2> jk
[08:34:58] <XXCoder> :P
[08:35:02] <zeeshan|2> sorry the trolling starts early this morning
[08:35:16] <zeeshan|2> i got two big jobs and money coming in
[08:35:23] <zeeshan|2> a bit excited :)
[08:35:48] <XXCoder> 6 am here, normally asleep by now but cant sleep for spme reason now
[08:36:17] <zeeshan|2> doh
[08:36:32] <XXCoder> usually in bed by 4 am
[08:43:33] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCADI0YSt8M
[08:43:35] <XXCoder> weird
[08:50:33] <Loetmichel> ahem... that seems to have heated up a bit after the bearing lost its balls (and races in shards) ... any idea how to fix THAT without a big enough lathe? ( the washer in front was steel btw. so we know at least where the aluminium from the bearing seat went ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15913&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[08:51:30] <zeeshan|2> that would be kinda annoying to put on a lathe
[08:51:35] <zeeshan|2> i'd do that using a boring head on a mill
[08:51:37] <XXCoder> cnc mill inside hole?
[08:51:42] <zeeshan|2> machine the bore out
[08:51:49] <zeeshan|2> and make a custom bushing to weld into place
[08:52:16] <XXCoder> or replacement inside? mill hole wider, make insert that can then be welded in
[08:52:23] <XXCoder> same size as orginal diameter inside
[08:52:38] <Loetmichel> i dont know if i can weld cast aluminium well enough ;)
[08:52:48] <XXCoder> alum weld is hard enough
[08:52:50] <XXCoder> ]cast ouch
[08:53:20] <XXCoder> anyway night
[08:58:34] <zeeshan|2> nite
[08:59:34] <Loetmichel> btw: how to get the races shards out of there? small sharpened chisel and a hammer?
[09:02:27] <skunkworks> dremel a slot down it then peal it out?
[09:02:44] <skunkworks> wonder what the hub looks like...
[09:02:50] <skunkworks> peel
[09:02:52] <Loetmichel> slot? for what?
[09:03:10] <Loetmichel> there are only a few shards of the bearing race left...
[09:03:19] <Loetmichel> and the inner race has desintegrated completely
[09:03:28] <Loetmichel> that IS the hub
[09:03:36] <Loetmichel> or did you mean the shaft?
[09:04:58] <skunkworks> no - it looks like there is still a layer of outer race left there. I wonder how well it is attached to the wheel hub. it is hard to see from the picture but it almost looks like it is somewhat still a complete circle
[09:05:20] <Loetmichel> only lloks like it
[09:05:23] <skunkworks> ah
[09:05:29] <skunkworks> get a new hub?
[09:05:42] <Loetmichel> it has some missing parts (2 o'clock)
[09:05:58] <skunkworks> oh - that is an intragle part of the rim isn't it.
[09:06:13] <Loetmichel> and the bearing was flush with the hub before ;)
[09:06:25] <skunkworks> yah - looks like it oozed
[09:06:31] <Loetmichel> no, thats parts of the old bnearing embedded in the hub
[09:06:59] <Loetmichel> the hub is made of 100% cast aluminium
[09:07:07] <Loetmichel> there are no steel parts in there ;)
[09:07:37] <Loetmichel> and the tube you can see in there was the spacer between the two bearings
[09:07:49] <Loetmichel> for reference where the bearing was before
[09:10:03] <spline> C.H.I.P. – Raspberry Pi competitor http://nextthing.co
[09:12:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/25/nanopi-is-a-16-wifi-and-bluetooth-le-linux-development-board/
[09:31:15] <Rab> CHIP = $9 + $15 S&H, NanoPi = $16 + $20 S&H
[09:31:59] <Rab> Two NanoPis in the cart, S&H for the second one is a mere $10. So I'm at $62 for two $16 computers.
[09:32:41] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/cgMjq7V.png
[09:32:46] <zeeshan|2> im almost tempted to do all these of these on the mill
[09:32:58] <zeeshan|2> with circular interpolation
[09:47:29] <cradek> would like to see how they're going to measure the .031+-.005 diameter of that chamfer
[09:49:54] <zeeshan|2> haha
[09:50:06] <zeeshan|2> i doubt he has a shadowgraph
[09:50:18] <zeeshan|2> i almost want an edm so i can troll people in real life
[09:50:40] <zeeshan|2> put a middle finger scaled to 0.0005"
[11:06:22] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Would it fit in your lathe if you disassembled all the spokes?
[11:24:32] <zeeshan|2> i find something funny on tap drill charts
[11:24:34] <zeeshan|2> m8x1.25
[11:24:45] <zeeshan|2> general rule of thumb is 8-1.25 = 6.75mm drill
[11:24:59] <zeeshan|2> so on most charts i've come across it says "H" drill size of 6.8mm drill
[11:25:14] <zeeshan|2> but if you look up H drill size its .266
[11:25:24] <zeeshan|2> yet a 17/64 more common drill is .2656
[11:25:32] <zeeshan|2> does the 4 tenths really make that much of a difference :-)
[11:25:37] <zeeshan|2> someone needs to revise!
[11:31:55] <Rab> I see 6.8mm as converting to .2677. So H is actually close to 2 thou under.
[11:34:25] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: it wont
[11:35:00] <Rab> I'm sure .0021 vs .0017 doesn't make a lot of difference. But consider that if you break any taps from here on out, you're going to have some serious egg on your face as regards PetefromTn_. So better to be safe than sorry.
[11:49:59] <fenn> Loetmichel: bore the hub out and solder in an aluminum spacer with alumalloy (zinc-based aluminum solder), then bore the spacer accurately. setup will be a challenge
[11:50:20] <Loetmichel> fenn: would if i could
[11:50:29] <Loetmichel> no big mill/lathe here
[11:50:35] <fenn> oh, well nevermind
[11:51:51] <fenn> can't do it with hand tools because the new bearing bore must be aligned to the old bearing bore
[11:52:23] <fenn> maybe you could align the spacer while soldering it in place
[11:52:33] <PetefromTn_> huh that new Fastenal 2 flute carbide endmill left a pretty sweet finish go figure....not bad for a $12.00 endmill LOL
[11:54:05] <Rab> Not a bad price for Fastenal.
[11:54:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know right.. I happened to be in there a couple months ago and noticed they have a bunch of taps and endmills in there
[11:54:47] <furrywolf> what is linuxcnc's plan regarding debian versions? going to move to jessie? because I've installed it, and systemd is still utter shit.
[11:55:05] <PetefromTn_> I have bought quite a few of them and have not really had any issues with any of them. the taps are quite decent especially for the price.
[11:55:42] <furrywolf> I'm trying to fix my systemd-fucked-up other laptop now. I might give up, wipe it, and do a fresh non-debian install.
[11:58:09] <furrywolf> given as one of its many properties is randomly crashing, systemd is never touching anything of mine with moving pointy bits.
[11:58:36] <Rab> Never had anything but trouble with systemd on jessie.
[11:59:59] <furrywolf> I'm trying devuan now, but their "warning: early alpha!!!11!" seems to mean it doesn't actually work. :)
[12:01:52] <Rab> I tried every published solution I could find to disabled GDM without installing it. Nothing worked. Finally found out that systemd insists on starting GDM, and nobody knows why. It's a current bug in debian jessie.
[12:02:24] <furrywolf> lol
[12:02:57] <furrywolf> I'm trying to get rid of systemd and it won't uninstall. it's also managed to take over the initrd such that even though /sbin/init is sysvinit, systemd still gets started somehow.
[12:03:43] <Rab> Every time I boot into debian, the system /and/ hardware clock are set to some nonsense time in the future. I have to boot into Slackware and run ntpdate and hwclock to fix it.
[12:04:19] <Rab> Apparently because systemd is in charge of network time.
[12:04:27] <furrywolf> wouldn't it be nice if things to do with the clock were separate utilities, rather than bundled into the same program as logins, networking, bootup, etc? :P
[12:05:48] <PetefromTn_> here's a question that is probably simple but I need to find a way to have the little dialog box for opening programs to open up fullscreen...
[12:06:19] <furrywolf> what the hell is a little dialog box for opening programs?
[12:06:24] <PetefromTn_> initially when Connor helped me setup the machine I thought it would be a good idea to have it open in a small format and also had him add it to open only machinable files..
[12:07:19] <PetefromTn_> now that I have LOTS of files stored in the machine it makes me have to drag the box edges around to make it full screen and also I have to click that option box.
[12:07:30] <PetefromTn_> How and where do you make these adjustments/
[12:08:00] <Rab> PetefromTn_, which distro and version are you running?
[12:08:11] <PetefromTn_> it is ubuntu
[12:08:23] <PetefromTn_> not sure which version
[12:10:36] <PetefromTn_> I am talking about when you are running the machine and go to file, open to load a CNC program
[12:11:00] <Rab> PetefromTn_, I don't use that software myself...but try Alt-[right click] on the run dialog panel and see if anything comes up for configuration.
[12:11:17] <Rab> Oh, so within LinuxCNC?
[12:12:59] <PetefromTn_> well yeah in linuxCNC axis at the top left hit file, drop down menu, open and that dialog box that opens..
[12:14:21] <Rab> PetefromTn_, this might or might not help: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:FILTER-Section
[12:15:28] <PetefromTn_> Okay that might help with the masking of programs but what about the opening fullscreen thing, that is the most time consuming part of it.
[13:06:28] <tjtr33> just_pink, what kind of edm generator are you building? google 'garden of edm' for the best open src so far.
[13:06:39] <tjtr33> real fets and real timing no rc crap
[13:08:07] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I made LinuxCNC fullscreen when you startup, and just added the mask to dialog for gcode files only.. I didn't do anything with the dialog size, or even know how to do that..
[13:09:48] <FinboySlick> furrywolf: Give systemd a couple more months and they'll be talking of integrating linuxcnc into their codebase.
[13:09:53] <PetefromTn_> Connor Hey man good to hear from you.. Actually I LIKE the fact that the mask is for G code only and I would love to be able to remove all other file masks in the drop down box so it only shows Gcode files
[13:09:59] <furrywolf> lol
[13:10:01] <andypugh> I found a linuxCNC wire eroder today on Youtube. But my Polish isn’t good enough to work out much more than that it seems to work.
[13:10:17] <Connor> that's easy to do.
[13:10:23] <fenn> maybe something like .config/gtk-2.0/gtkfilechooser.ini:GeometryWidth=1440
[13:10:26] <PetefromTn_> For some reason when I click open the dialog box is small
[13:10:41] <Connor> PetefromTn_: That, I don't know how to fix.
[13:10:41] <PetefromTn_> if I open it and make it bigger via dragging the edges
[13:10:49] <PetefromTn_> and then close it
[13:10:56] <PetefromTn_> and then reopen it it STAYS large
[13:11:11] <PetefromTn_> but when I shut down the entire machine/pC and restart it is back to small again
[13:11:16] <Connor> until next reboot
[13:11:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[13:11:33] <PetefromTn_> its not a huge deal but it is kinda frustrating
[13:12:10] <PetefromTn_> its like that damn update thing that opens each time I reboot the machine which is every day I wish I did not have to close it each time...
[13:12:27] <PetefromTn_> Everything else you did on this machine has been Freakin' perfect man!!
[13:12:39] <fenn> PetefromTn_: is there a file /home/pete/.config/gtk-2.0/gtkfilechooser.ini
[13:12:40] <PetefromTn_> I appreciate all of it
[13:14:43] <PetefromTn_> fenn not sure man
[13:15:07] <tjtr33> andypugh, lemme know if you want the wedm looked at
[13:24:29] <fenn> oh it's tkinter not gtk
[13:51:17] <fenn> i can't figure out how to do it; there may be some way to edit axis.py line 1934 (search for "tk_getOpenFile") and add something like .minsize(800,600) but the way it's called you don't have access to the actual window object, so...
[13:51:57] <fenn> looks like other people have this problem too: http://computer-programming-forum.com/57-tcl/a5b05e972d4a92d8.htm
[13:52:11] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda wondering if it is indeed a linuxCNC setting or an ubuntu setting...
[13:54:18] <PetefromTn_> like I said ideally it would open either full screen or ALMOST full screen as in Windows not sure what you call that really.
[14:03:57] <just_pink> tjtr33: thanks - look very useful
[14:06:06] <tjtr33> good luck building yours. have fun. sanook di!
[14:09:28] <just_pink> how can I open .ps file?
[14:10:05] <Rab> To view, or to edit?
[14:11:15] <andypugh> Inkscape
[14:11:15] <just_pink> https://online2pdf.com/convert-ps-to-pdf
[14:11:38] <Loetmichel> *HA* $me gets himself another "gunslinger medal"... i get better with shooting these annoying big flies out of the air... with a windex pump spray ;) that was about number 10 today... wonder what they like about my desk at all :-(
[14:12:37] <Rab> Hmm, Inkscape just failed to open a PostScript file it created. Apparently it uses ps2pdf for PS import and ps2pdf crapped out.
[14:14:05] <Rab> gv was able to open it though.
[14:17:35] <just_pink> there is a way to block user in the irc?
[14:17:47] <just_pink> there is a way to block user in the irc?
[14:18:01] <Rab> /ignore <user>
[14:18:38] <just_pink> someone send me all the time private massages
[14:22:06] <skunkworks> sorry/
[14:22:16] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:22:37] <FinboySlick> just_pink has stalkers?
[14:24:05] <just_pink> I can do anything
[14:24:07] <just_pink> IGNORE Unknown command
[14:24:21] <just_pink> MUTE Unknown command
[14:25:05] <Rab> Which IRC client are you using?
[14:26:05] <just_pink> Rab: I'm using the web based
[14:26:17] <just_pink> Rab: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=
[14:29:18] <Rab> Hmm, that uses qwebirc which apparently doesn't have any kind of ignore command.
[14:32:39] <just_pink> I'm wondering is just solid and blinking stack light is enough or I should add fade as well
[14:42:07] <Roguish> just_pink: try CHATZILLA for Firefox
[14:43:30] <furrywolf> or install an irc client.
[14:45:26] <just_pink_> Roguish: & furrywolf I have irc client but It's much more nice to get it integrated in the browser
[14:46:26] <just_pink_> for now the annoying user stop to send me spam..
[14:46:28] <furrywolf> nice for you maybe. I can't imagine ever wanting that.
[14:49:12] <just_pink_> furrywolf: if it is part from firefox, and i need to open or send a like - I'm already in the right place,
[14:50:01] <furrywolf> because switching workspaces is hard?
[14:53:37] <just_pink_> furrywolf: to do Alt-Tab all the time it's not a nail friendly task
[14:54:59] <furrywolf> nail clippers will fix that.
[14:55:12] <andypugh> I don’t find it too hard on the nails.
[14:58:30] <andypugh> (Not a totally random on my part, I do have freakishly long nails for a chap, I have had comments about it on my Youtube Chanel)
[15:00:01] <just_pink_> andypugh: continuous motion and hitting the same spot on small piece of keratin will cause it to break
[15:01:07] <andypugh> Naybe, I also have freakishily strong nails, I originally let then grow as a kid to use as screwdrivers for Meccano.
[15:02:36] <just_pink_> andypugh: OMG screwdriver
[15:03:08] <just_pink_> just to think about it make me feel bad
[15:03:19] <andypugh> Meccano screws are very small :-)
[15:05:12] <just_pink_> andypugh: on my vision nails It's basically permanent jewelries
[15:06:37] <andypugh> Yeah, but then you are a girl. I see nails and hair as things that grow out of my body and get shorthened when in the way. :-)
[15:09:23] <just_pink_> hehe..
[15:11:20] <just_pink_> I'm going to vaqqume the machine
[15:12:17] <andypugh> See! That proves it. I clean the machine with a shovel when I can’t find the T-nuts.
[15:13:03] <just_pink_> andypugh: what??
[15:13:51] <just_pink_> I can see her body full of junk.
[15:13:54] <andypugh> It proves that you are a girl. Cleaning a machine that you can still find under the pile of swarf
[15:13:56] <just_pink_> cant*
[15:15:29] * furrywolf sends just_pink_ some books on feminism
[15:15:41] <furrywolf> you don't need to do stupid things just because society considers them attractive.
[15:16:06] <just_pink_> furrywolf: but I like it..
[15:17:38] <just_pink_> BRB
[15:17:49] <just_pink_> going to clean
[15:27:50] <Rab> furrywolf, time to upgrade your library to third-wave feminism.
[15:29:41] <andypugh> Not related really, but I can’t help wondering what future archaeologists will think when digging up skeletons with two silicone jellyfish on top.
[15:30:12] <furrywolf> lol
[15:50:04] <just_pink_> the table is clean :)
[15:50:08] <just_pink_> now the Z
[16:00:23] <just_pink_> DONE
[16:00:45] <just_pink_> now nice coat of oil
[16:13:03] <just_pink_> there is a rule or standard about the height of the mounting height of the stack light?
[16:21:08] <PetefromTn_> managed to get some rails machined today...
[16:22:14] <just_pink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Q56eIpGOI
[16:22:38] <just_pink_> PetefromTn_: why do you need rails?
[16:23:13] <PetefromTn_> I don't need rails my customers do hehe
[16:24:45] <just_pink_> I dont have a cnc.. you have customers..
[16:25:11] <PetefromTn_> I got several cut today both sides... just have to cut the weaver rail top program on them now and then I can brush finish and Anodize them..
[16:25:54] <PetefromTn_> Well this is not a hobby for me here I am TRYING to get my shop equipped to make products I design and sell and make customers products as well.
[16:26:15] <just_pink_> just_pink_: become green
[16:27:19] <PetefromTn_> meh I can't even grow a cactus ;)
[16:27:25] <Deejay> gn8
[16:27:36] <PetefromTn_> GN8 DEEJAY!!
[16:28:49] <just_pink_> PetefromTn_: green from jealousy
[16:29:30] <PetefromTn_> Oh believe me there is nothing to be jealous of LOL It's been a rather huge struggle here for a good long time and I still have a ways to go
[16:30:02] <PetefromTn_> I'm just pleased the VMC is working well and makes me accurate smooth parts can't wait to get my CNC lathe working.
[16:37:05] <just_pink_> ccurate smooth parts - :(
[16:38:10] <just_pink_> the machin is nice and oily...
[16:38:27] <just_pink_> now I don't want to power it up.
[16:38:42] <just_pink_> she look soo nice,
[16:45:32] <LatheBuilder_2> andypugh that was a nice find you sent to the mailing list. I've been stewing over a wire ECM for a while. Not an EDM, but same motion
[16:46:11] <just_pink_> http://www.ultracarver.com/
[16:46:21] <just_pink_> 120K RPM
[16:46:34] <just_pink_> use the vaqqume
[16:53:19] <Sync_> I think I'd be annoyed that the vacuum would have to run all the time
[16:54:43] <just_pink_> Sync_: yeh.. I think to make some dremel mount and mount it to the machine.
[16:55:57] <Sync_> also dat türbo action
[16:57:51] <just_pink_> 3/4" pvc is good enough for dremel mount? or to use aluminum or stainless?
[16:59:24] <Sync_> well, the drehmel has no meaningful bearings, so eh
[17:00:00] <just_pink_> Sync_: what do you mean?
[17:03:18] <Sync_> it only has two unmotivated grooved ball bearings sitting there
[17:03:58] <Tom_itx> you'd be just as well off using a die grinder
[17:05:16] <Sync_> a die grinder at least has partially motivated bearings
[17:05:48] <just_pink_> I ding to make mount style http://www.bluumaxcnc.com/BluumaxCNC/4K_Mount-1.JPG
[17:07:05] <just_pink_> I want it just for PCBs..
[17:08:23] <just_pink_> Tom_itx: Sync_ PetefromTn_ - so you think that 3/4 pvc will hold it good enough?
[17:08:48] <Tom_itx> as good as it will perform probably
[17:08:52] <Sync_> expect it to die within a year even just for pcbs
[17:10:34] <LatheBuilder_2> just_pink_ might consider a v-block type cradle mount and holding your dremel in with hose clamps. Might get you where you need to go without so much fabrication
[17:12:37] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: but I need to hold it some how on the Z axis
[17:16:30] <JT-Shop> new word askhole : someone who repeatedly asks for your advice, yet always does the opposite of what you told them
[17:17:07] <DaViruz> that's a pretty good word
[17:17:58] <Tom_itx> knowing that, you could still manipulate them
[17:18:03] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: nice
[17:18:39] <LatheBuilder_2> just_pink_ something like this: https://woodgears.ca/slot_mortiser/router_mount_done.jpg
[17:20:46] <LatheBuilder_2> wouldn't have to be that elaborate. piece of wood with hose clamps.
[17:20:47] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: I dont know how to mount it to the machine..
[17:22:27] <LatheBuilder_2> you have the grizzly 704, right?
[17:25:09] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: yes
[17:26:16] <JT-Shop> found two thorns stuck in the back tire... flat again and a broken spoke
[17:27:59] <PetefromTn_> just_pink_ You have a milling machine I see no reason to not make it from aluminum
[17:28:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, things are looking grim for your morning ride
[17:28:25] <LatheBuilder_2> a dremel takes up most of your spindle to table distance. imagine if you will the dremel up and to the left of your z. block made from whatever you want carved out to match it. back side of the block clamps the block on the left side of your column
[17:28:45] <XXCoder> that made me wonder
[17:28:53] <XXCoder> how do you guys decide how to place spindle
[17:29:08] <XXCoder> I'm guessing so tip of spindle holder itself just touches table
[17:29:20] <XXCoder> tool would impact long before spindle itself hits
[17:30:29] <LatheBuilder_2> if getting the contour is too much prior to finishing your retrofit, cut a big pocket, coat your dremel in a release agent and "bed" it in place with JB-Weld epoxy.
[17:31:01] <Tom_itx> just don't ever try to repair it
[17:31:37] <LatheBuilder_2> hose clamps over top to keep it in the nest will not be super strong but work fine for routing isolation traces
[17:36:59] <andypugh> just_pink_: That’s a pretty rubbish makeup robot.
[17:38:58] <just_pink_> I think I will make somthing that go in to the R8
[17:39:19] <just_pink_> I dont want to drill it
[17:39:34] <LatheBuilder_2> that would be cleaner
[17:40:30] <just_pink_> but I need for that very shot spindle..
[17:40:36] <just_pink_> short*
[17:40:52] <andypugh> just_pink_: R8 Collet?
[17:41:07] <just_pink_> yes..
[17:41:18] <andypugh> The R8 spindle was originally intended to be a collet nose, not a tool holder (or so I believe)
[17:43:09] <just_pink_> andypugh: but commercials high speed turbines go there..
[17:43:35] <andypugh> I think we might be failing to communicate.
[17:44:35] <LatheBuilder_2> perhaps something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vulcan-Vulcanaire-Pneumatic-Air-Jig-Grinding-Head-Precision-Offset-Head-1-5-Sha-/181811515568?
[17:45:36] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: yes. somthing like that but smalller and electrical based,
[17:45:38] <LatheBuilder_2> shaft mounted pneumatic grinding tool. swap the shank out with something small enough to fit in an R8 collet and you are off to the races
[17:46:02] <andypugh> I had a design for a speeder for my (slow) mill using a cheap ER11 collet holder from eBay, some ball bearings and friction drive.
[17:46:26] <andypugh> That would be only about as long as the bearings are wide.
[17:46:35] <andypugh> (plus a bit)
[17:46:59] <just_pink_> I don't like noise
[17:47:24] <LatheBuilder_2> but you are asking for a dremel mount? Not much is louder
[17:47:43] <andypugh> The spindle drives a plate with the three ball bearing shafts. A peg hols a springy outer ring stationary, on the middle the three bearings twirl the ER11 shaft.
[17:48:06] <andypugh> No gears, so should be fairly quiet
[17:48:36] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, don't look to bad from this end for the morning
[17:49:26] <Tom_itx> you'd better find some wheels to put under you
[17:49:43] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: buy turbine use compressor..
[17:50:20] <JT-Shop> got the spoke replaced today and just put a new tube in... the old one looked like those cartoons from the 50's
[17:51:31] <LatheBuilder_2> I hear you there just_pink_ ...mine lives in the shop. If you have a place you can remote mount it, air tools are very compact. Low cost too compared to electrical versions
[17:55:55] <Sync_> but high running cost
[17:56:25] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: the machine is inside the house second floor
[17:56:29] <Sync_> compressed air can easily be the most expensive utility one has
[17:56:43] <Sync_> well, just run a pipe outside, it's not too hard
[17:56:49] <Sync_> or use a quiet compressor
[17:59:36] <just_pink_> Sync_: and quiet turbine..
[18:01:46] <Sync_> well, they are not too bad
[18:04:11] <Sync_> and I think that you'd want to wear hearing protection anyways
[18:15:03] <LatheBuilder_2> just_pink_ there are some bits of inspiration for you here: http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCHighSpeedSpindleAddOn.htm
[18:18:14] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2:
[18:18:16] <just_pink_> http://www.macrotechnologies.com/high_speed_air_spindles.htm
[18:18:24] <just_pink_> this is cute!!
[18:21:41] <SpeedEvil> I wish that 500KRPM tooling project had released info
[18:26:01] <andypugh> just_pink_: They look inexpensive too :-)
[18:26:03] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: how big were the tools?
[18:26:51] <andypugh> I can barely hear my compressor, but the flow rate is too low for an air tool.
[18:27:11] <andypugh> It is just used for the drawbar, tyres and blowing-off.
[18:27:22] <Sync_> screw compressors are great, but not for low volumes :/
[18:28:42] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: It was for stupido-tiny milling
[18:28:52] <SpeedEvil> ~0.5mm and below IIRC
[18:29:10] <SpeedEvil> ^spindle project
[18:29:23] <just_pink_> andypugh: also dimond ring..and shoes
[18:29:29] <andypugh> Mine is the ancestor of this. Practically silent, but very expensive new.
[18:41:42] <LatheBuilder_2> ya, looks like the mini-mac would do what you need
[18:45:03] <LatheBuilder_2> for what it is worth, a high pressure nitrogen bottle +regulator would be quiet... expensive though.
[18:45:13] <Sync_> co2
[18:45:17] <CaptHindsight> whats the recommended feed rate for milling paraffin wax with a 1mm 2 flute mill?
[18:45:35] <Sync_> I run a co2 bottle in the shop
[18:45:51] <Sync_> because it is liquid it runs forever
[18:46:53] <LatheBuilder_2> co2 cheaper for sure (i use it). but indoors with high volume use...asphyxiation hazard
[18:47:20] <furrywolf> co2 does not present an asphyxiation hazard. nitrogen, argon, etc do, but not co2.
[18:47:41] <furrywolf> co2 is immediately detectable by your body, and you'll know if it's in the air.
[18:48:59] <LatheBuilder_2> didn't know that.
[18:49:41] <XXCoder> you're also constantly making co2
[18:49:52] <Sync_> obviously you gotta calculate the volume and the volume of your ventilation
[18:49:56] <andypugh> Lack of CO2 is more of an asphyxiation hazard. With no CO2 in the air your baroreceptors go all screwy, yo forget to breathe, and you die.
[18:50:30] <furrywolf> while it can be a hazard, to quote osha: "Gaseous carbon dioxide is an asphyxiant. Concentrations of 10% (100,000 ppm) or more can produce unconsciousness or death. Lower concentrations may cause headache, sweating, rapid breathing, increased heartbeat, shortness of breath, dizziness, mental depression, visual disturbances or shaking."
[18:51:08] <furrywolf> it's hard to create a 10% atmosphere, and it's very hard not to notice something is wrong before then, unless you suddenly enter an area with a very concentrated atmosphere of it...
[18:51:43] <andypugh> Normally it is something like 1%? You get physiological reactions to higher levels (hyperventilation) more than it actually poisons you
[18:51:50] <furrywolf> yep
[18:52:09] <CaptHindsight> maybe a CO2 nozzle to cool as well as clear the wax chips away
[18:52:11] <furrywolf> co2 is what makes your body decide it needs to breathe harder
[18:52:28] <furrywolf> not lack of oxygen
[18:52:52] <furrywolf> this is why nitrogen and argon are so dangerous... your body doesn't actually respond to a lack of oxygen nearly as much as an excess of co2.
[18:52:57] <andypugh> Which is why 100% N2 is a quiet way to die that you wouldn’t even notice happening.
[18:54:28] <LatheBuilder_2> yikes. good to know
[18:56:09] <furrywolf> mrs renfro's ghost pepper salsa: hot or not?
[18:56:37] * furrywolf grabs chips
[18:56:50] <andypugh> Book recommendation: http://www.amazon.com/Billion-Dollar-Heist-Ben-Lovejoy-ebook/dp/B00ZPMNTYC
[18:56:51] <furrywolf> not.
[18:57:20] <andypugh> Written by a friend, so the fact that there is a villain named “Pugh” is not 100% coincidence.
[18:57:29] <furrywolf> BAH! it's not even a fucking medium.
[18:57:53] <furrywolf> says HOT in big letters on the bottle, CAUTION: SCARY HOT, etc, etc... it's a medium. maybe.
[18:58:29] <HSD> :(
[18:58:31] <furrywolf> HOT!!! with three exclamation marks, even.
[18:58:31] <HSD> hate it when that happens
[18:58:42] <HSD> ...MAYBE for my mother-in-law
[18:58:44] <HSD> :)
[18:59:18] <LatheBuilder_2> andypugh i'll bite. been looking for a reason to start a kindle unlimited trial. Good?
[18:59:19] <HSD> You'd think with ghost peppers it'd at least be a little hot
[18:59:40] <andypugh> All the reviews are 5*
[19:00:21] <Sync_> andypugh: rooms with lower PPO2 for fire issues are intersting
[19:00:25] <Sync_> ~interesting
[19:01:03] <furrywolf> ingredients: tomatoes, water, jalapeno peppers, onions, green chile (with an e) peppers, distilled vinegar, corn starch, salt, ghost peppers, garlic, spices, cilantro.
[19:01:12] <furrywolf> I'm guessing that means it contains more salt than ghost peppers.
[19:01:22] <HSD> AH!
[19:01:33] <HSD> yeah, I can imagine it wouldn't be hot
[19:01:50] <HSD> most stuff is like that.
[19:01:56] <HSD> HOT!!! = meh
[19:01:58] <andypugh> They put children in it?
[19:02:03] <Sync_> it has to be compatible with most people
[19:02:09] <andypugh> Alien children, even?
[19:02:47] <furrywolf> I should have a nice harvest of trinidad scorpions this year... will need to make some salsa.
[19:03:11] <andypugh> I have a theory that fok who like their chillies very hot have a different reaction to it than normal folk.
[19:03:19] <Sync_> I think one of the rooms we have has a PPO2 of 6 or 8%
[19:03:32] <Sync_> it feels strangely wrong in there
[19:03:34] <furrywolf> fire prevention?
[19:03:36] <Sync_> yes
[19:03:58] <furrywolf> you'll feel strangely dead if you work too hard...
[19:04:04] <Sync_> not really
[19:04:13] <Sync_> you will pass out but survive
[19:04:18] <andypugh> Does it feel the same as high altitude, or is it different?
[19:04:29] <Sync_> it feels very different
[19:04:39] <Sync_> as the PP stays about the same at altitude
[19:04:43] <Sync_> you sense something is wrong
[19:04:45] <Sync_> but not what
[19:04:59] <andypugh> Interesting
[19:05:29] <furrywolf> probably because there's no decrease in co2 removal efficiency or something
[19:06:01] <Sync_> I should investigate what the o2 is backfilled
[19:06:04] <Sync_> if it is co2 or n2
[19:06:11] <andypugh> We have some big rooms at work where they can reduce the pressure to simulate 4000m altitude, and -30C to +40C and supply a 100mph wind, all while a car in the middle sits on rollers at full power…
[19:06:12] <Sync_> I suppose n2 because we have that on tap
[19:06:23] <furrywolf> probably handy for bring your kids to work day. :P
[19:07:19] <Sync_> haha I remember seeing the S1 in the altitude test chamber
[19:07:28] <Sync_> apparently they had issues keeping the chamber at temperature
[19:07:28] <Tom_itx> andypugh, did you condition there before your boat trip??
[19:08:26] <andypugh> Actually, it is +55C that they can do: http://www.ford.co.uk/experience-ford/AboutFord/News/VehicleNews/2011/ChillyFocus
[19:08:49] <andypugh> And they do 140mph wind…
[19:10:00] <furrywolf> a coworker just bought a new dodge charger... apparantly it has a tiny little v6 under the hood and gets 30mpg. wtf. why would you get a charger with an economy motor?
[19:10:15] <LatheBuilder_2> if just_pink_ is still here, check this: http://www.rollmeover.com/bronco_fab/bridgeport/HighSpeedSpindle.jpg
[19:10:18] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, looks
[19:10:44] <andypugh> More to the point, why would you make an “economy” V6?
[19:11:06] <Sync_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0yaL5NLC3U
[19:11:12] <furrywolf> because you order the V8 if you don't want economy?
[19:11:15] <andypugh> (Also, do you really consider 30mpg “economy”?
[19:11:33] <furrywolf> for something as large as a charger? yes, I do.
[19:11:52] <Tom_itx> they'll tack the word 'economy' on anything here in the US to get a sale
[19:12:43] <just_pink_> LatheBuilder_2: the pulley supposed to be opposite
[19:12:50] <XXCoder> andypugh: compared to my van 20 mpg? yes.
[19:12:52] <andypugh> Sync_: That’s a tiny little blower
[19:12:54] * furrywolf still wants a 65mpg subaru diesel
[19:12:54] <just_pink_> big that drive small
[19:13:20] * XXCoder am still waiting for 84 mpg elio
[19:13:23] <furrywolf> if subaru sold their diesel here, we'd finally get rid of hybrids.
[19:13:33] <furrywolf> and smart cars
[19:13:48] <andypugh> Sync_: In our lab there is a big hole in the wall, and a tunnel nearly as big as the room up over the room and back in the other side
[19:14:12] <Sync_> it is not made for aero testing
[19:14:19] <Sync_> they have another one that is similar to yours
[19:14:20] <furrywolf> why would you ever get an expensive, unreliable hybrid or a tiny, slow, useless smart car, when you could get a full-size AWD crossover SUV with even better economy? :P
[19:14:32] <Sync_> that one is just for performance calibration of awd vehicles
[19:14:46] <Sync_> because crossover
[19:14:49] <andypugh> Sync_: Yes, I got the feeling that was the Audi Sport lab, not their main environmental facility
[19:14:50] <Sync_> I'd rather drive the smart
[19:15:05] <furrywolf> Sync_: you could get it in a station wagon too.
[19:15:31] <Sync_> it's not limited to audi sport, but it is one of the few places that have an actual good awd dyno there
[19:15:35] <furrywolf> it's not even that slow... 155hp, 280ftlbs stock, more if you reflash the ecu.
[19:15:51] <andypugh> I am not sure I would. I want to like the Smart, it’s high on the list of cars that I would buy if I bought a car, but it’s strangely uninvolving to drive. It has nothing like the feel of the original Mini
[19:16:20] <andypugh> furrywolf: I wouldn’t risk reflashing the ECU on a modern diesel
[19:16:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Axis-B-Axis-H-Style-CNC-Engraving-Machine-Rotary-Table-For-3040-4th-5th-Axis-Y-/171875000644 anyone ever use or see these up close?
[19:16:31] <Sync_> well, most crossovers are also very uninvolved
[19:16:37] <furrywolf> andypugh: clearly you know nothing about the car tuning community.
[19:16:41] <furrywolf> they'll reflash anything. :P
[19:16:54] <CaptHindsight> or this version http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-engraving-machine-Rotary-Axis-A-Axis-B-Axis-4th-5th-Axis-CNC-Rotary-Table-/201403007979
[19:17:24] <furrywolf> a lot (well, relatively) of people who use the subaru diesel for engine swaps run an aftermarket bosch ecu on them.
[19:17:35] <andypugh> I am sure they will. And I am sure that they are sure that all the limits are about “emissions”. And to an extent they are correct. Our hard limit at the moment is generally molten piston emissions.
[19:17:36] <CaptHindsight> wondering if they are even good enough to machine wax
[19:17:39] <XXCoder> I wish I can reflash ecu on ford contour. it has one parameter wrongly set (it was a recall) but they wont fix it now
[19:18:36] <Sync_> andypugh: I like how mahle is pushing steel cylinders for small diesels
[19:18:42] <Sync_> or rather pistons
[19:18:49] <furrywolf> I wanted to get one to drop in my subaru, but the complete cost of a swap is still pushing $10k to do it in this country, which is way out of my budget.
[19:18:54] <furrywolf> I got a rolled imprezza for $200.
[19:18:57] <andypugh> Yes, not just small ones either. A work of art they are, too.
[19:19:10] <LatheBuilder_2> what are your thoughts just_pink_? I am not trying to hunt down a drop in fix for you, just inspire you to make cool stuf yourself. =)
[19:19:49] <Sync_> well diesel everything is expensive in the us for whatever reason
[19:19:49] <furrywolf> most of that cost is getting someone on the other side of the pond to pull an engine, harness, ecu, fuel system, tranny, etc, etc, etc, crate it, and ship it here...
[19:20:14] <furrywolf> Sync_: it was never sold in the US, and might never be. subaru believes americans don't want fuel-efficient vehicles.
[19:20:25] <Sync_> the real reason is emissions
[19:20:28] <furrywolf> and the government emissions requirements declare it to be evil
[19:20:36] <Sync_> and diesel purity in the last decade
[19:20:39] <furrywolf> because they measure emissions as tailpipe percentage, not per mile.
[19:21:42] <furrywolf> when subaru thought of reselling them here, they had to detune the motor to significantly less power, significantly worse economy, AND add a DEF system.
[19:21:48] <furrywolf> s/reselling/selling
[19:21:52] <Sync_> well a diesel frontcut can't be that expensive
[19:21:56] <andypugh> Yes, for a Diesel to be efficient NOx tends to be high, it’s a high temperature combustion process. So we make the engine very efficeint, then burn a lot of extra fuel to control the chemistry lab in the exhaust.
[19:22:09] <Sync_> I'd not bother with the rear fuel system, that's cheap enough
[19:22:28] <furrywolf> Sync_: you also need most of the dashboard, from what people who've done swaps have found.
[19:22:53] <Sync_> wat
[19:23:21] <furrywolf> the anti-theft is built into the ecu for some who-the-fuck-knows-why reason, so you also need the electronics module bolted to the steering column, the ignition switch module, and original key, as well as some other crap from inside the dash I don't remember.
[19:23:44] <Sync_> yeah andypugh, my dads megane had some significant fuel savings when I deleted the dpf and egr
[19:23:45] <furrywolf> people have done swaps and had to keep the stock ignition cylinder electronics, with the key duct-taped to it, stuffed inside the harness. heh.
[19:23:55] <Sync_> I'd flash the immo away
[19:24:09] <Sync_> or code it to the existing one
[19:24:37] <furrywolf> most swaps are into vehicles without electronic keys. :)
[19:25:13] <furrywolf> people who want cleaner installs buy the bosch aftermarket ecu, but it, cables, software, etc, apparantly runs around $2k.
[19:25:22] <Sync_> immos were mandatory since I think 95 in the EU
[19:25:25] <andypugh> With Fords the ECU, cluster and BCM all do a little dance together and agree that they belong together. This it (I think, not my field) to prevent peopls from stealing ECUs (or just buying them to make the milage look lower).
[19:25:57] <Sync_> furrywolf: sounds reasonable
[19:26:09] <andypugh> But, it is possible to re-match the modules, any dealer should be able to do it if you can prove that it’s all legit.
[19:26:14] <Sync_> andypugh: that's what they all do
[19:26:17] <furrywolf> andypugh: I've never worked on a ford like that, but I have worked on BMWs like that, and it's a royal pain in the ass, because only a few shops can re-key ECUs... so if you need a new ECU, you have to send it off to one of these shops, along with the security module and ignition keys.
[19:26:19] <Sync_> but all of them ar broken
[19:26:28] <furrywolf> BMW dealers will not rekey a used ECU.
[19:26:37] <furrywolf> they will only sell you a new one, for the same price as a new used car.
[19:27:20] <Sync_> it's not that bad, they run around 2-3k
[19:27:23] <furrywolf> the last one I worked on, we ended up having to mail the new ecu, security module, and key, to a company on the other side of the country...
[19:27:34] <furrywolf> yes. the car we were working on cost $500. :P
[19:27:40] <furrywolf> not going to spend $3k on an ecu for it!
[19:27:41] <Sync_> but at least most (I think) of them are flashable now
[19:28:08] <andypugh> furrywolf: I would be surprised it that is actually BMW policy. That’s probably the dealers being awkward.
[19:28:29] <furrywolf> my friend got it cheap because a shop diagnosed it as having jumped time. sure 'nuff, when we cranked it, it promptly backfired out the intake, tried running backwards, and generally failed miserably.
[19:28:47] <furrywolf> I pulled the ecu power and cranked it, and it sounded perfectly smooth, good compression. obviously no actual mechanical issues.
[19:28:57] <furrywolf> which means the shop that diagnosed it did a piss-poor job.
[19:29:22] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I love cheap because misdiagnoses
[19:29:50] <XXCoder> I once bought a car, it had tranmission noises and few issues
[19:30:05] <XXCoder> noises in tranmission? lack of tranny fluid apparently
[19:30:28] <XXCoder> (I bought someone who could hear with me)
[19:30:43] <XXCoder> that car lasted 9 years before totaled lol
[19:30:49] <furrywolf> pulled the ECU... http://fw.bushytails.net/coildrivers01.jpg
[19:30:53] <XXCoder> could easily last another 10
[19:31:06] <Sync_> andypugh: do you happen to know how exhaust pressure measurements are done? just high temp piezo transducers or any magic?
[19:31:08] <XXCoder> released magic smoke I see
[19:31:30] <andypugh> XXCoder: I thought you were going to say “Tranny noises? Why would I care?"
[19:31:44] <furrywolf> it didn't just release the magic smoke. it got hot enough that the solder melted, and each transistor slid sideways until it shorted to the one next to it. so when it tried firing on them, it also fired its neighbor!
[19:31:58] <furrywolf> s/on them/one of them
[19:31:58] <XXCoder> ouch
[19:32:15] <andypugh> Sync_: Just long metal then rubber tubes to a perfectly normal sensor on the bulkhead.
[19:32:24] <furrywolf> which is why it was shooting flames out the intake, running backwards, etc.
[19:33:51] <LatheBuilder_2> hi PetefromTn_
[19:34:18] <Sync_> oh, that is suprisingly lame andypugh
[19:34:57] <andypugh> Why lame? It’s all that you need, and it’s cheaper than hot stuff, and more reliable.
[19:35:00] <furrywolf> ironically enough, two years later, the engine did jump time. this time it was a lot more obvious. it stopped with a crunch, wouldn't crank over, and when you turned the crank backwards with a breaker bar, you could see the timing chain, covered in aluminum chunks, didn't turn with it...
[19:35:15] <furrywolf> dropped the oil pan, found it full of broken timing guide bits.
[19:35:52] <just_pink_> furrywolf: what is the broken PCB on the picture?
[19:36:02] <furrywolf> he put a junkyard engine in it, and it's still his daily driver.
[19:36:12] <furrywolf> just_pink_: the ECU from a 98 BMW 540i
[19:36:37] <just_pink_> ECU??
[19:36:52] <furrywolf> Engine Control Unit
[19:37:00] <furrywolf> the computer that makes a modern fuel-injected engine run
[19:37:57] <just_pink_> ouch
[19:38:20] <Sync_> andypugh: well, because on the instrumented merc we had at work they ran water cooled piezos
[19:38:25] <Sync_> for whatever reason
[19:38:31] <andypugh> In the trade we call that the PCM (Powertrain Control Module)
[19:39:03] <PetefromTn_> LatheBuilder_2 hey
[19:39:13] <furrywolf> and bmw calls it a DME. your point? :P
[19:39:16] <andypugh> Sync_: Yes, we run super-expensive stuff on instrumented test cars. But nothing in production is allowed to cost money
[19:40:01] <Sync_> yeah but I'm trying to instrument my race car for some actual engineering
[19:40:12] <andypugh> Well, ECU is semi-generic Electronic Control Module, and cars now have several ECUs all with different jobs.
[19:40:14] <Sync_> so I'm looking at how to do it right
[19:40:48] <furrywolf> andypugh: happen to know anything about intake design? I have a resonance from 1000-1500RPM at WOT, that should be eliminated with a helmholtz resonator. :)
[19:41:09] <just_pink_> * furrywolf go back to carburetor
[19:41:13] <andypugh> I know enough to know what I don’t know.
[19:41:24] <furrywolf> yeah, I often have that problem.
[19:41:55] <andypugh> You are on the right track, we use them on cars, bt how you design one? No idea.
[19:42:26] <Sync_> wikipedia has the formulas
[19:42:37] <Sync_> the rest is trying stuff out
[19:42:44] <furrywolf> there's a lot more to design than formulas. :P
[19:42:45] <Sync_> I have one in my room to dampen some echo
[19:43:14] <furrywolf> and formulas generally always assume a perfect cylinder with frictionless walls or other crap that has nothing to do with the real world, where you're trying to stuff it inside a fender and it's made of plastic.
[19:43:40] <Sync_> it's suprisingly close
[19:45:32] <andypugh> Ours are rarely bigger than about 1 litre
[19:45:53] <furrywolf> the car I got the engine from a had a big honkin' one taking up much of the passenger side fender, maybe 2l.
[19:45:59] <just_pink_> I break the last end mill!!
[19:46:18] <furrywolf> it's because the resonance is at such a low frequency
[19:46:25] <andypugh> It may be that the trick is to get it in the right place. We jusr 3D print a dozen variations and test them…
[19:46:32] <furrywolf> LOL
[19:46:46] <Sync_> what's so funny?
[19:46:57] <Sync_> resonances are annoying real world problems
[19:47:05] <furrywolf> Sync_: because that's the exact opposite of using formulas. :P
[19:47:11] <andypugh> just_pink_: It is a dreadful state of affairs that nobody sells end-mills at 0124am on a saturday morning!
[19:47:11] <Sync_> well
[19:47:13] <Sync_> not really
[19:47:17] <Sync_> you get the rough idea
[19:47:20] <Sync_> and then try what works
[19:47:41] <Sync_> as those are full of real world problems
[19:47:48] <furrywolf> unfortunately, it's a lot harder for me to do that.
[19:47:54] <furrywolf> because prototypes are expensive.
[19:48:01] <Sync_> that's the way it is
[19:48:01] <PetefromTn_> andypugh ain't it the truth
[19:48:13] <furrywolf> yes. I pointed out that real world often differs from forumlas.
[19:48:14] <just_pink_> andypugh: here is 8:25PM
[19:48:28] <furrywolf> here it's 5:25PM, but no one sells endmills any time day or night.
[19:48:30] <PetefromTn_> hey that's my time zone LOL
[19:48:31] <Sync_> sure, but the formula gets you close
[19:48:41] <andypugh> They are all designed by formula, the testing is to determine which ones don’t have secondary effect, like making a farting noise, or confusing the MAF sensor, or making the duct rotate at +40C
[19:49:02] <furrywolf> yeah, confusing the maf sensor is my issue with not having one.
[19:49:16] <Sync_> pfft maf
[19:50:02] <andypugh> The MAF sensor is the most important one you have for an injection system, regardless of what you are trying to achieve
[19:50:31] <furrywolf> the other option is I'll just make a little pcb that has a MAF compensation table in it.
[19:50:39] <furrywolf> and tune the problem out
[19:50:41] <Sync_> why not just run alphaN?
[19:51:07] <furrywolf> just have rpm and throttle position as the inputs, and each cell be a scaling factor for the maf voltage.
[19:51:33] <andypugh> Though you could try: http://roguespeedshop.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/wal-phillips-fuel-injectors.html
[19:52:04] <furrywolf> no idea what alphaN is.
[19:52:04] <Sync_> hm well, it seems kistler wants an arm for new sensors
[19:52:07] <Sync_> that sucks
[19:52:23] <Sync_> alpha = throttle plate angle, N = engine rpm
[19:52:36] <furrywolf> I've heard the term, but don't know its meaning. heh.
[19:52:41] <furrywolf> ... because that sucks? lol
[19:53:03] <Sync_> well, it sucks that they want so much money for the ride height sensors I want
[19:53:51] <furrywolf> I was thinking the other day about cheap ride height sensors... how about an induction coil and a block of steel on top of the suspension component being measured? check for changes in the resonant frequency of an lc system...
[19:54:52] <furrywolf> I plan on sticking air shocks on one of my subarus, and was thinking how I could make them fancy auto-levelling.
[19:55:00] <Sync_> cheap ride height sensors = potentiometers
[19:55:03] <furrywolf> then I decided it was too much work and a little flippy switch was adequate. :)
[19:55:06] <Sync_> like every car with xenons
[19:55:31] <Sync_> but that sucks when you are trying to measure platform vs wheel
[19:55:35] <furrywolf> I bought the air shocks and the compressor, but... I have too many projects.
[19:56:13] <andypugh> furrywolf: Two coaxial aluminum tubes, set up an LC bridge
[19:56:40] <andypugh> (I have actually done this, it works)
[19:56:46] <furrywolf> that seems prone to failing in the presense of mud and water.
[19:56:57] <Sync_> well, just buy four pots off some other car
[19:57:02] <Sync_> and connect them with a linkage
[19:57:06] <Sync_> it is pretty simple
[19:57:21] <Sync_> but I'm trying to do suspension tuning
[19:57:29] <Sync_> which turns out to be a pretty expensive thing to do
[19:57:47] <furrywolf> if it's just for temporary use, you can jury rig something with a couple pots pretty easily.
[19:58:49] <Sync_> there are actual real ones with weatherproofing for cheap
[19:58:54] <furrywolf> I should finish that project one of these days... I already bought all the parts... it's just time and energy. heh. I have the air shocks, compressor, and lines sitting in a box...
[19:59:08] <Sync_> but eh, air shocks
[19:59:33] <andypugh> Laser triangulation sensors somewhere convenient: http://www.micro-epsilon.co.uk/displacement-position-sensors/laser-sensor/optoNCDT_1402SC/index.html
[19:59:46] <furrywolf> I think he said cheap. :P
[20:00:03] <furrywolf> also, anything optical will fail with mud.
[20:00:08] <furrywolf> and your suspension WILL be covered in mud.
[20:00:17] <Sync_> depends how you package it
[20:00:43] <furrywolf> what, you don't like air shocks?
[20:00:47] <Sync_> yes
[20:00:50] <andypugh> Ah, chape might be a problem: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-OPTRONIC-OPTONCDT-OPTONCDT1800-RS232-K6-/381168823703?hash=item58bf6ead97
[20:01:39] <Sync_> I thought about using an industrial sensor for rideheight
[20:01:49] <furrywolf> Sync_: do you have a better suggestion for how to get a nice smooth ride when empty but not sag when 1/2 the car's weight suddenly appears over the axle?
[20:01:50] <Sync_> but most of them do not have the bandwidth I think I need
[20:02:23] <Sync_> hydraulic leveling
[20:02:30] <furrywolf> yeah, which is easier? :P
[20:02:33] <furrywolf> lol
[20:02:55] <furrywolf> if I wanted to be really fancy, I could replace the manual torsion bar adjuster with an electric one.
[20:03:24] <furrywolf> old subarus had user-adjustable torsion bars... I have mine cranked all the way up right now. heh.
[20:03:57] <Sync_> well, I don't like how airbags feel under fast driving
[20:04:07] <andypugh> MotoGP seems to use LVDTs to log suspension position. But then they are not particularly budget-constrained. http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/popular/suzuki-xrh-1-motogp-photos-eicma/
[20:04:08] <Sync_> as the spring rate is not constant usually
[20:05:01] <Sync_> andypugh: I already have linear pots on all dampeners, that's not the problem
[20:05:21] <furrywolf> Sync_: I'm adding air shocks to the existing torsion bar suspension, not replacing it.
[20:05:31] <furrywolf> just to add extra lift with heavy loads, not for normal driving.
[20:06:06] <Sync_> that's an interesting setup, most people just replace the springs?
[20:06:09] <furrywolf> do you need to measure absolute position, or can you measure velocity and integrate for an approximation?
[20:06:32] <furrywolf> these are air shocks that mount in place of your shock absorbers, with no change to the suspension.
[20:07:10] <furrywolf> http://www.monroe.com/en-US/products/Max-Air that variety.
[20:07:31] <Sync_> that will ride strange
[20:07:46] <Sync_> as the curve is progressive
[20:08:11] <Sync_> well, how would I measure velocity?
[20:08:13] <furrywolf> it'll ride a lot better than being too soft until it hits the hard rubber bump stop. :P
[20:08:23] <furrywolf> velocity is easy. a magnet and any coil of wire. :)
[20:08:26] <just_pink_> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Carbon-Fiber-Digital-Caliper-6-/H8135
[20:08:32] <Sync_> I need to look at the position of the vehicle platform relative to the wheel
[20:08:33] <just_pink_> junk?
[20:08:48] <furrywolf> it starts with grizzly, so yes.
[20:09:00] <jdh> junk. the $10 HF ones are better
[20:09:07] <jdh> (metal)
[20:09:28] <furrywolf> they sell that one for $7 at harbor freight.
[20:09:36] <jdh> it's junk there too
[20:09:46] <furrywolf> I owned one. the gibs got loose, then they fell out when I tried adjusting them, then it never went back together right.
[20:09:46] <just_pink_> I have Signet stainless
[20:10:21] <furrywolf> also, carbon fiber? LOL. it's some fiber-reinforced plastic, but it's certainly not layered carbon fiber with resin... it's just plastic.
[20:10:45] <Sync_> I just got a mitu digimatic
[20:11:03] <furrywolf> I have a couple of the harbor freight stainless ones... they seem to work well for the price.
[20:11:20] <jdh> I have 5 or 6 of them. some are better than others
[20:11:41] <furrywolf> the trick is to never use two at once. :P
[20:11:56] <furrywolf> they're like clocks or multimeters... the more of them you have, the less sure you are of your answer. :)
[20:12:44] <jdh> I have mitutoyo and moderatley cheap SPI at work. They read the same as my HF
[20:13:25] <Sync_> hmm I see suzuki uses texane
[20:14:11] <Sync_> andypugh: I'm not sure if they use lvdt
[20:14:17] <Sync_> the rear one certainly looks like it
[20:14:29] <XXCoder> mitytoyo mm and calibre
[20:14:33] <furrywolf> just_pink_: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-digital-caliper-47257.html those are perpetually on sale for $9.99-$14.99 with coupon. google for a coupon, buy.
[20:14:34] <XXCoder> I like thaty brand
[20:15:15] <just_pink_> furrywolf: I have all stainless caliper
[20:15:38] <furrywolf> just_pink_: they also have a port if you want to use them as a DRO or log readings.
[20:16:21] <furrywolf> does linuxcnc have a chinese caliper DRO driver yet? :)
[20:16:25] <just_pink_> but I have 6in" calipers.
[20:16:44] <furrywolf> ... then why did you ask about a 6" caliper?
[20:17:10] <just_pink_> I want to know what is the carbon fiber..
[20:17:39] <furrywolf> it's not carbon fiber like you're thinking of, with shiny layers. it's just black plastic that might, in theory, have carbon fiber reinforcing it.
[20:17:56] <XXCoder> furrywolf: that caliper is suspectiously accurate for $20
[20:18:46] <just_pink_> someone know about keychain caliper?
[20:19:03] <just_pink_> digital..
[20:19:03] <jdh> I have one of those plastic ones. I didn't bother replacing the battery.
[20:19:08] <XXCoder> just googled it. whaa
[20:19:58] <XXCoder> http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h461/candihk123/key%20chain/80.jpg
[20:20:08] <furrywolf> its accuracy is embiggened by the subtruthfullality of the promoadvertising subdivision.
[20:20:27] <XXCoder> ah good facts not true facts
[20:20:36] <XXCoder> (from babylon 5 lol)
[20:20:43] <furrywolf> it seems pretty accurate from my using it.
[20:20:43] <just_pink_> I like to talk to people not to to the computer - I'm loking for somthing digital..
[20:20:54] <furrywolf> I have not tested it against any particularly accurate standards, however.
[20:21:47] <andypugh> furrywolf: I think there is a Chinese DRO driver out there, not in the main code base though
[20:21:56] <XXCoder> aliexpress has keychain caliper for 82 cents
[20:22:01] <XXCoder> free shipping lol
[20:23:20] <Sync_> isn't it just quadrature?
[20:24:20] <andypugh> Google Messograf It’s a perfectly good pen and also a decent caliper
[20:24:42] <XXCoder> whats next? drill bit that is also an caliper? lol
[20:24:44] <andypugh> I definitly don’t regret buying mine at the price
[20:25:19] <furrywolf> Sync_: no, those chinese calipers have some kind of actual protocol output that gives the current position, zeroing, etc.
[20:25:48] <andypugh> Messograf is a bit strange, they have bypassed the perfectly good retract mechanism built in to the refill with their own brass one…
[20:26:11] <Sync_> ah yeah, idk
[20:26:24] * furrywolf has never heard of one of them
[20:26:32] <XXCoder> Messograf looks nice
[20:26:37] <XXCoder> and I ALWAYS need a pen
[20:26:46] <XXCoder> I carry one with me constantly
[20:26:49] <furrywolf> I use the pilot G2 gel pens for everything.
[20:27:49] <furrywolf> bbl, need to flush the power steering on my car before it gets dark.
[20:28:25] <just_pink_> DONE
[20:28:38] <furrywolf> my power steering flush is done? thanks. :P
[20:30:07] <XXCoder> andypugh: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Novelty-Vernier-caliper-Plastic-Ballpoint-Pens-Caliper-pen-Messograf-Caliper-Pen/32394393307.html
[20:30:17] <XXCoder> cheapie version lol 100 of em
[20:32:28] <jdh> on click amazon prime messograf
[20:33:19] <andypugh> Here’s an interesting question. I just bought a MIG welder. It does MAG too, so has both positve and negative outputs on the big twisty terminals. Which is the earth clamp for MIG? The manual is hilarious, and goes into some depth about safety “badly hurts above are of sight-hurt, injury, (high, low temperature) hurt, live wire, fracture, poison etc which can leave sequelas and need to live at hospital for
[20:33:19] <andypugh> treatments).”
[20:33:22] <just_pink_> XXCoder: cuuuuuteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[20:33:42] <just_pink_> I want it!!!
[20:34:14] <XXCoder> just search caliper pen there there is lots options
[20:34:26] <andypugh> just_pink_: The actual Messograph is made in Germans, costs 20x as much, and is actually accurate
[20:34:40] <XXCoder> andypugh: indeed
[20:35:02] <just_pink_> for 1 each X20 is just 20$..
[20:35:05] <just_pink_> LINK!!
[20:35:15] <andypugh> And, really, 20x as much is still not super-costly
[20:35:26] <jdh> http://www.amazon.com/Cleo-Skribent%C2%AE-of-Germany-20005/dp/B003JGCR30
[20:36:46] <XXCoder> "If you slide the clip all the way off, there is a tiny spring clip which falls out and gets lost easily."
[20:36:49] <XXCoder> good to know.
[20:37:38] <andypugh> Hmm, mine stops at the bottom
[20:38:09] <jdh> what is MAG welding?
[20:38:19] <XXCoder> one reviewer says he or shes over 120 years ld
[20:38:19] <andypugh> ordinary arc
[20:38:41] <andypugh> Facebook thinks that I am 97
[20:38:44] <XXCoder> bullshit. there is only 6 women over 115 (bi-millenial) and zero men left
[20:39:02] <XXCoder> one manrecently died
[20:39:16] <Sync_> andypugh: use reverse polarity
[20:39:41] <andypugh> It turned out that the oldest man (in Japan) had actually been dead for 20 years, but the family like the pension :-)
[20:39:58] <XXCoder> ow
[20:40:35] <andypugh> Sync_: The question is, how have they connected the Euro-torch?
[20:40:50] <jdh> amazon will deliver my messograf sunday
[20:41:33] <Sync_> measure andypugh
[20:41:34] <andypugh> I have three connectors. Clearly the Mig torch goes in the Euro-torch socket, the question that the manual doesn’t address is where they expect the return clamp to go.
[20:41:41] <Sync_> ah
[20:41:43] <Sync_> well
[20:41:59] <Sync_> they have done a transformer with center tap most probably
[20:42:08] <Sync_> so you can put the ground clamp on the side you want the polarity
[20:42:27] <Sync_> just measure what is what
[20:42:40] <andypugh> It’s an inverter..,
[20:43:16] <andypugh> Can you do a centre tapped inverter?
[20:45:18] <andypugh> It is entirely possible that they have been clever and you swap connectors to swap polarity. But they don’t seem to say
[20:45:25] <Sync_> what keeps you from doing it?
[20:45:39] <Sync_> it is also clevur because it saves on the diode
[20:45:46] <Sync_> but needs a bit more copper
[20:45:58] <Sync_> almost all inverters do that, especially AC tigs
[20:46:05] <Sync_> as you do not need a fullbridge to invert
[20:46:20] <andypugh> I will find out, I guess
[20:46:22] <Sync_> they most likely have been clever
[20:47:09] <andypugh> I am rather surprisd that I have had the welder since Wednesday and haven’t yet plugged it in.
[20:50:07] <just_pink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSDeOZuNz_E
[20:56:45] <just_pink_> 37.4C or 99.5F for bearings - it is too hot??
[20:58:35] <just_pink_> who just bought one??
[20:59:29] <jdh> <-
[21:02:09] <cradek> that's just a warm day
[21:02:48] <XXCoder> 99.5 is "hery hot" around where I live
[21:02:54] <XXCoder> 80s F is "hot"
[21:03:12] <just_pink_> jdh: what kind of a cnc do you have?
[21:03:35] <jdh> g0704, chinese 6040, lathe-in-progress
[21:04:09] <XXCoder> amazing!
[21:04:11] <XXCoder> http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/new-water-treatment-technique-may-clean-pharmaceuticals-h2o/
[21:04:40] <just_pink_> jdh: steppers?
[21:04:50] <jdh> yeah
[21:05:58] <XXCoder> argh
[21:06:05] <XXCoder> Mr_Sheesh keeps leaving and joining
[21:06:09] <XXCoder> constantl;y
[21:07:24] <malcom2073> Sheesh!
[21:07:45] <jdh> I use smartfilter.pl, it hides parts/joins from inactive people
[21:08:12] <XXCoder> what do it define inactive as?
[21:08:49] <jdh> no activity in n seconds
[21:10:03] <XXCoder> old hexchat used to also ignore join/leaves when ignall
[21:10:06] <XXCoder> but it dont now
[21:16:34] <andypugh> just_pink_: That girl in the video with the Messograph had me cringing. She claims to be an “engineer”, and it is quite likely that she has more engineering qualifications than me. But she can’t work a vernier scale, she can’t measure a bolt, and she doesn’t know about tapping drills.
[21:18:54] <just_pink_> LOL!!!
[21:19:08] <just_pink_> I see that also!
[21:19:28] <malcom2073> I had to introduce an engineer to an extension cord, and explain that it allowed him to run spot lights while outside (rather than doing it inside)
[21:21:32] <jdh> I have a ChemE engineer at work for the summer. It's amazing
[21:21:40] <jdh> s/engineer/intern/
[21:22:04] <just_pink_> I thin k I learn how to read the fraction on the analog caliper when I was 10..
[21:22:17] <just_pink_> I mwan to the sub mm scale..
[21:22:22] <just_pink_> mean*
[21:22:39] <andypugh> The Vernier scale proves an something that most people don’t reaise. You can read a ruler to 1/1000” or 0.01mm.
[21:23:44] <andypugh> But you can only do that when there are two lines to align. The Vernier scale isn’t magic, it just gives you lines in all the places you need one.
[21:24:05] <just_pink_> I know
[21:24:16] <furrywolf> yay, test drive complete, power steering noise mostly gone.
[21:24:30] <jdh> you do subarus?
[21:24:37] <furrywolf> yes
[21:25:00] <jdh> how many miles can you get out of a 2006-2010 one?
[21:25:00] <just_pink_> I work with the analog one before I had the digital one..
[21:25:12] <andypugh> just_pink_: I am not lecturing to you :-) I am talking to he internet as a whole. There seems to be a feeling that the Veriner scale is more than just a ruler.
[21:25:14] <furrywolf> dunno. I don't work on many that new. :P
[21:25:32] <malcom2073> I just learned how to read a micrometer two weeks ago, they're amazing
[21:25:41] <CaptHindsight> it's magic
[21:26:43] <furrywolf> jdh: most subarus run ~forever with proper maintenance. change your timing belts at 150K. the 2.5L tended to blow head gaskets during the early 2000s, but I think they fixed it by then. not sure.
[21:27:08] <andypugh> You can read a normal wooden ruler to 1/200” or so, as long as what you are measuring has a lne of the same width to compare. And you can only say that is is exactly 1” or it’s bigger or smaller
[21:27:50] <andypugh> malcom2073: Was that a micrometer with a Vernier?
[21:28:21] <malcom2073> andypugh: I just googled it, and it seems so
[21:28:29] <malcom2073> Though I didn't realize what they were, so was ignoring them haha
[21:28:38] <andypugh> I once had to use a travelling microscope with a 1/20 mm scale on the Vernier. That was horribly error-prone
[21:28:42] <just_pink_> malcom2073: I dont have micrometer yet..
[21:28:57] <CaptHindsight> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/VernierscaleHow_a_vernier_scale_works.gif/220px-VernierscaleHow_a_vernier_scale_works.gif animated gif
[21:29:00] <XXCoder> just_pink_: get one. trust me
[21:29:44] <andypugh> 12mm and, err, that’s aligned at 6, so that’s 12.6. No, wait, 12.3
[21:30:15] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: were you a door to door scientist back then?
[21:30:36] <just_pink_> yestarday I cut 3 beams of alominum to 0.01 aucrcy..
[21:30:57] <just_pink_> do you want me to do it to 0.001mm????
[21:31:18] <furrywolf> andypugh: ever notice how bad water is for power steering fluid/atf? just a little bit makes it pink and foamy and noisy. :)
[21:31:21] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Pretty much. I was swapping university research group every couple of years
[21:31:34] <malcom2073> furrywolf: It's like oil and water :-P
[21:32:08] <furrywolf> malcom2073: no, it's not. water and atf/power steering mix.
[21:32:18] <andypugh> just_pink_: You already did it to 0.00000000001 accuracy, as long as you choose the right target length
[21:32:35] <furrywolf> even if you don't agitate it, such as would be needed to create an emulsion, if you add water to atf, it turns pink.
[21:32:46] <andypugh> Probably a marker
[21:33:10] <andypugh> But I know nothing about ATF. Never had a car, and never worked on an auto
[21:33:52] <malcom2073> Yeah the red is a coloring
[21:34:14] <furrywolf> you've never had a car, or you've never had a car with power steering or an automatic transmission?
[21:34:26] <just_pink_> andypugh: each one cut seperatly.
[21:35:16] <andypugh> furrywolf: I have never owned a car
[21:35:26] <just_pink_> but i clamp all the ends of them to 123 block and compensate it from the length..
[21:36:31] <andypugh> (Cars that I can afford are too slow)
[21:36:45] <furrywolf> don't you work for a car company? I guess you're doing that 55-56-57-58-59 chevy thing, and stealing parts one at a time until you can build one at home? :P
[21:40:21] <andypugh> That’s part of it. If I need a car or a van overnight or for the weekend, I just take one. So why would I bother owning one when I cycle to work and motorcycle for fun?
[21:41:28] <furrywolf> I'm wagering you live close to town and don't have a lifestyle that involves tools or cargo. :)
[21:42:27] <andypugh> I live 5 miles from work. My lifestyle does involve tools, but not ones that would fit in a car
[21:43:48] <furrywolf> heh
[21:44:45] <furrywolf> I have the back of my subaru filled with tools. a reasonably complete set of non-special-purpose mechanic's tools, carpentry tools (including power tools), roadside service (two sets of jumpers, boost box, air compressor, tow straps, lights, etc),...
[21:47:26] <andypugh> Yeah, I just carry a braekdown recovery card and credit card on the bikes.
[21:48:39] <furrywolf> people often call me when things need fixing. :)
[21:48:52] <furrywolf> and I'm working on someone's house right now, hence the carpentry tools.
[21:49:45] <furrywolf> also, you can fit a lot of things in a car! I had 9 honda generators, including a 6500W and two 3000W, in the back of my subaru a couple months ago... :)
[21:49:49] <furrywolf> didn't even use the front seat.
[21:49:56] <andypugh> If folk know you always have tools you are making a rod for your own back :-)
[21:50:03] <furrywolf> lol
[21:50:35] <furrywolf> I can't imagine living without a car.
[21:50:56] <XXCoder> neither do I
[21:50:59] <andypugh> It’s easier than you might think.
[21:51:05] <XXCoder> I dont use cars very much but still
[21:51:18] <XXCoder> my work is only 12 miles away which is quite short than average
[21:51:26] <XXCoder> but still too far to bicycle daily
[21:51:50] * furrywolf bets andy doesn't shop at warehouse stores. (costco, big sam's, whatever the .uk equivalent is)
[21:51:58] <LatheBuilder_2> still in the bay area XXCoder? that's a nice short commute
[21:52:09] <andypugh> Aye, I was 14 miles away for a few years. Cycling in, OK. But I would never want to leave to cycle back.
[21:52:15] <XXCoder> tacoma wa, near inlet sea yeah LatheBuilder_2
[21:52:38] <andypugh> I shop for food at Tesco. They deliver.
[21:52:53] <furrywolf> cycling is horrible... not only are you exposed to weather and randomly being killed by cars, you waste way too much time getting anywhere.
[21:53:07] <XXCoder> LatheBuilder_2: old work was 35 miles, and goes south to return home in nasty time (seattle communters returning home from work)
[21:53:22] <andypugh> Well, I do have an R1 too. When I am in a hurry.
[21:53:49] <XXCoder> normal week day 30 minutes to work, return home around 50 minutes. friday return home is 1 to 2 hours lol
[21:53:55] <XXCoder> glad its not anymore
[21:56:36] <LatheBuilder_2> I have a cousin just up the bay from you XXCoder. works at the shipyard
[21:56:54] <XXCoder> cool
[21:57:14] <just_pink_> I'm trying to think aboy taking a dremel and cut the shaft of it to get the place for the coller
[21:57:31] <LatheBuilder_2> He says nice area. Never heard anyone familiar with it disagree
[21:57:35] <just_pink_> but how you fit the bearings on it?
[21:57:54] <XXCoder> LatheBuilder_2: it is beautful place yeah
[21:58:24] <andypugh> just_pink_: On a Dremel you can (on mine, at least) unscrew a collar to reveal a mounting thread
[21:59:42] <LatheBuilder_2> alternately, how about mounting a flex shaft spindle coaxial with yours just_pink_?
[21:59:44] <just_pink_> I mean to buy broken dremel or somthing and cut about 2 inch of the shaft..
[22:01:27] <LatheBuilder_2> thing is, the spindle in a dremel is not awesome. if you wanted to make something better and _just_ what you want you could look at 608Z bearings
[22:01:43] <XXCoder> theres plenty spindles on aliexpress too
[22:01:45] <LatheBuilder_2> in the US they are common, cheap, and good
[22:01:48] <XXCoder> not too expensive
[22:02:31] <furrywolf> I haven't heard much good about aliexpress spindles. they're just dremels or routers, but made in china, cheaply.
[22:02:35] <andypugh> Going back to the belt-drive thing earlier, in that case it made no sense to use a Dremel as the motor. An RC plane brushless motor would be easier to integrate and more pwerful.
[22:03:07] <LatheBuilder_2> that would be a dandy, and inexpensive too
[22:03:22] <just_pink_> somthing like that http://i.imgur.com/QcU5KFc.png
[22:03:26] <XXCoder> furrywolf: really? there is lot of air and water cooled spindles
[22:03:45] <furrywolf> wouldn't an rc plane brushless motor be yet another power rail you have to provide, and a low-voltage high-amps one too?
[22:05:07] <andypugh> furrywolf: That’s a point. a 1/2hp conventioanl induction motor driving a spindle held as a tool would probably cause less trouble.
[22:05:31] <LatheBuilder_2> if you were making anything at all you might like the result better if you started with an ER collet extension. Can be had inexpensively and then be used for heavier cuts than a dremel would hold up to
[22:06:06] <andypugh> Yes, I was about to say start at the bearings and move out
[22:07:18] <furrywolf> dremels have very tiny shafts and bearings, for very tiny tools.
[22:07:25] <andypugh> But these things are a really good starting point, and cheap: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271560849987
[22:07:29] <Rab> Some just have bushings.
[22:07:43] <furrywolf> a bushing is a "plain bearing" :P
[22:08:07] <just_pink_> andypugh: and how I'm put the bearings?
[22:08:13] <Rab> just_pink_, I used this to make a spindle: http://item.ebay.com/121450857746
[22:08:20] <just_pink_> what hold tham in place?
[22:08:31] <andypugh> just_pink_: Welll, that’s where some mechanical design is needed
[22:08:33] <Rab> 8mm shaft, 608 bearings just press-fit on.
[22:08:50] <Rab> Plenty of 8mm ID pulleys for belt drive on eBay.
[22:09:11] <Rab> just_pink_, http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/image/8mmspindlediagram.png
[22:09:13] <just_pink_> but the Z axis can press it out.. tou know 1HP servo..
[22:09:14] <LatheBuilder_2> clamp on shaft collars for axial location if you need it
[22:09:18] <bobo_> andypugh: would you reconsider getting the slotter? other uses are -- resetting staples , cracking various food type nuts, puunding very small nails, etc
[22:09:19] <andypugh> Add a thread if there isn’t one. Then two bearings and a spacer
[22:09:37] <andypugh> bobo_: Not at £500 (not this month)
[22:09:39] <furrywolf> I'm thinking of putting on of those harbor freight 60K air die grinders on my shoptask... I think it'll fit through my spindle, then just clamp the body of the tool with a standard collet, and use a length of pipe screwed into the air fitting, with some extra threads on the other end, as a drawbar.
[22:10:21] <furrywolf> leave the main spindle off, of course.
[22:10:35] <just_pink_> furrywolf: noiiiiiiiiiiiis
[22:10:59] <furrywolf> ?
[22:11:47] <just_pink_> furrywolf: "60K air die grinders" make noiiise like crazy...
[22:12:31] <furrywolf> yes. I've owned a couple.
[22:12:45] <furrywolf> (a couple because even with oiled air, they don't have the greatest life expectancy)
[22:12:52] <andypugh> You adapt, over years. Well, technically it is called “going deaf”
[22:13:00] <XXCoder> random question, any of you made dice with mill? heh
[22:13:15] <XXCoder> andypugh: not worried about that myself. I have been all way deaf since before birth
[22:13:38] <furrywolf> XXCoder: I saw a page about making dice on a mill the other day, but didn't read it.
[22:13:40] <furrywolf> so try google. :)
[22:13:46] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:14:08] * furrywolf has never had a use for dice
[22:14:11] <Rab> just_pink_, building your own spindle just for PCB milling is overkill, unless you want a project. Side and thrust loading are negligible.
[22:14:26] <XXCoder> furrywolf: funny thing, singular name for dice is die
[22:14:34] <Rab> just_pink_, consider a nicer rotary tool: http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-38481-Professional-Rotary-Tool/dp/B001FWXEO6/
[22:14:37] <XXCoder> most people use dice
[22:14:56] <XXCoder> same as group of crows is murder
[22:15:02] <XXCoder> murder of crows'
[22:15:03] <Rab> Metal collar so you can fix it in place, nice bearings, good runout, steel collets.
[22:15:07] <furrywolf> yes.
[22:15:11] <andypugh> XXCoder: You are (relatively) lucky to live in a world where nearly evrery conversation can be typed.
[22:15:13] <furrywolf> and a gaggle of geese, etc. :P
[22:15:39] <XXCoder> andypugh: yeah. I'm bit worried about techologies like amazon echo and siri
[22:15:47] <just_pink_> Rab: the whole I dea is to make somthing like that https://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs064/1102402694945/img/106.jpg
[22:15:53] <XXCoder> google once revealed they are thinking about no screen device
[22:15:54] <andypugh> furrywolf: “Flange of Gorillas” has an interesting etymology
[22:16:02] <XXCoder> great for blind, not so great for deaf
[22:16:08] <Rab> just_pink_, if you have access to a lathe it'll be easy.
[22:16:16] <andypugh> XXCoder: Siri is no good for me
[22:16:30] <andypugh> People can understand me, computers can’t
[22:16:30] <XXCoder> heh why?
[22:16:43] <XXCoder> andypugh: means you need less accent I guess
[22:16:47] <furrywolf> XXCoder: do you have one of the varieties of deafness that can be worked-around with a cochlear implant? then your google device can talk straight to your brain. :)
[22:16:49] <XXCoder> I sign with little bit of accent
[22:16:53] <andypugh> My accent is not one that they cover
[22:16:55] <XXCoder> furrywolf: well
[22:17:06] <XXCoder> I never grew brain parts for hearing fully
[22:17:09] <just_pink_> Rab: no :( I have a cnc milling machine
[22:17:21] <XXCoder> I will never be able to understand people even if my nerves connections is fixed
[22:17:28] <furrywolf> ah
[22:17:34] <XXCoder> not without HUGE training
[22:17:41] <XXCoder> never 100% or even 50%
[22:21:05] <XXCoder> andypugh: anyway it all works out most times
[22:21:12] <XXCoder> work I use notepad a lot
[22:21:26] <just_pink_> wha is the biggest shank that fit in to e11?
[22:21:26] <XXCoder> sometimes computers when my writing sucks
[22:21:51] <furrywolf> probably around 1/4"
[22:22:37] <XXCoder> aliexpress er11 sets all are 1 mm to 7 mm
[22:22:38] <furrywolf> since my ER20 set goes up to 1/2". :)
[22:22:45] <Rab> just_pink_, https://www.maritool.com/Collets-ER-Collets-ER11-Collets/c21_56_60/index.html
[22:23:13] <Rab> 5/16"
[22:23:39] <andypugh> Or 7mm (cheaper)
[22:23:50] <XXCoder> my grinder router can hold er11 but not too certain if it would hold properly
[22:24:04] <andypugh> That’s odd
[22:24:09] <andypugh> 6
[22:24:14] <just_pink_> there is no 0.8mm or 1/32?
[22:24:24] <andypugh> 5/16 is so close to 8mm
[22:24:24] <furrywolf> there are no tools with 1/32 shanks.
[22:24:37] <Rab> furrywolf, that's a strong statement.
[22:25:02] <Rab> just_pink_, you would want to use .8mm carbide tooling with a 1/8" shank.
[22:25:03] <XXCoder> I have tools thats around 2 mm too bad I has nothing to hold that
[22:25:33] <just_pink_> Rab: they cost 10 time more than 0.8 drill
[22:25:52] <andypugh> Yes, it makes no sense for tiny tools to be tiny all the way up
[22:26:09] <Rab> just_pink_, 0.8mm HSS drill isn't going to last 10% of the lifespan of carbide when drilling PCBs.
[22:26:10] <XXCoder> andypugh: unless its a tool that cannot be regrinded
[22:26:23] <andypugh> XXCoder: ?
[22:26:41] <XXCoder> why waste material on tool that dont last very long
[22:26:49] <XXCoder> so thin all way up
[22:26:52] <just_pink_> Rab: you get 10 drill bits for $1
[22:26:54] <Rab> And used/resharp carbide drills go for $1/ea, sometimes less.
[22:27:32] <LatheBuilder2> used to be able to get surplus packs of tiny carbide drills with 1/8" shanks. regrinds from the pcb industry...maybe still get them somewhere
[22:27:33] <Rab> just_pink_, you'll be changing tools every 100 holes...and the last 25 holes, you'll basically be burning through the board.
[22:27:44] <andypugh> Because there is almost no material in a <1mm tool, and they are terribly fragile if you keep them small all the way to the collet
[22:28:20] <just_pink_> Rab: I've drill 600 holes with the same 0.8 drill bit
[22:28:22] <just_pink_> hss
[22:28:31] <just_pink_> from china
[22:28:51] <Rab> just_pink_, I cannot argue with your experience, but I can only trust mine.
[22:28:56] <LatheBuilder2> in fr4? circuit board material?
[22:29:18] <furrywolf> all my tiny drill bits have 1/8" shanks.
[22:29:26] <furrywolf> including ones a lot smaller than 1/32".
[22:30:44] <furrywolf> in industry, as far as I know, all the micro drills and mills have larger shanks.
[22:31:07] <furrywolf> I have probably 150 tiny drill bits with 1/8" shanks, for pcb manufacturing.
[22:31:47] <furrywolf> maybe more. 250? lol
[22:32:00] <furrywolf> trying to remember how many is in some of the boxes I have. :)
[22:32:17] <XXCoder> I should check size of those tools but I dont know where it is now lol
[22:32:20] <Rab> This guy rulez for cheap PCB drills: http://item.ebay.com/381350497698
[22:32:34] <Rab> Unfortunately no 0.8mm in that set, but he's got a lot.
[22:32:38] <just_pink_> Item condition: Used
[22:32:42] <Rab> Good prices on new drills/tooling as well.
[22:32:43] <furrywolf> http://www.harborfreight.com/high-speed-steel-micro-drill-bit-set-30-pc-61526.html is pretty cheap
[22:33:15] <furrywolf> just_pink_: many of the pcb drills available are used. board houses use them until they're dull, then send them off to their supplier who resharpens them.
[22:33:17] <Rab> furrywolf, pure garbage.
[22:33:19] <just_pink_> furrywolf: how do you put sub mm drill in E11 collet??
[22:33:33] <furrywolf> just_pink_: you buy ones with 1/8" shanks like we're talking about.
[22:34:06] <furrywolf> Rab: I haven't bought the HF ones, but looking at them in the store, they look remarkably like resharpened PCB drills, and of the same quality as any other resharpened pcb drills.
[22:34:06] <Rab> I bought that very set. The drills A) don't match the described diameters, B) have off-center points.
[22:34:10] <just_pink_> going to be expensive...
[22:34:49] <furrywolf> the set I looked at didn't give sizes, just said assortment. and the packs were all different.
[22:34:51] <Rab> HF do carry actual legit carbide drills: http://www.harborfreight.com/20-pc-carbide-rotary-micro-bit-assorted-set-62379.html
[22:35:16] <Rab> Unfortunately the sizes truly are random, but if you pick up a few packs you can build a pretty good range.
[22:35:30] <just_pink_> Rab: i see tham on the store - its look like juuuunk
[22:35:36] <just_pink_> soooo juuunk
[22:35:48] <Rab> Many are too small for typical PCB use.
[22:36:18] <just_pink_> meany are come broken...
[22:37:02] <just_pink_> and meany not even close to ve concentric
[22:38:35] <just_pink_> i need as lot of center drills
[22:38:41] <just_pink_> 5/64..
[22:39:24] <Rab> just_pink_, brand new, $1.30/ea: http://item.ebay.com/151339409435
[22:39:55] <just_pink_> Rab: you see the problem with the carabide..
[22:40:01] <just_pink_> the sooooo long
[22:40:13] <just_pink_> mean that get broken soo fast
[22:40:32] <just_pink_> for 1.5 mm pcb you neem 2mm drill max!!
[22:40:35] <Rab> Not if you have a decent spindle (i.e. not Dremel).
[22:41:04] <just_pink_> I have
[22:41:22] <just_pink_> but 2mm vs 10 mm
[22:41:38] <just_pink_> it's 5 times more ronout
[22:42:31] <just_pink_> with the drills with out the shank I just keep them sort
[22:42:36] <just_pink_> short*
[22:43:50] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> Rab: I haven't bought the HF ones, but looking at them in the store, they look remarkably like resharpened PCB drills, and of the same quality as any other resharpened pcb drills.
[22:43:51] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> the set I looked at didn't give sizes, just said assortment. and the packs were all different.
[22:44:05] <Rab> furrywolf, the set you linked was HSS.
[22:44:37] <furrywolf> it didn't actually load here. lol
[22:44:43] <furrywolf> must have found the wrong one
[22:44:54] <furrywolf> yeah, wrong set
[22:45:12] <Rab> <Rab> HF do carry actual legit carbide drills:
[22:45:12] <furrywolf> http://www.harborfreight.com/20-pc-carbide-rotary-micro-bit-assorted-set-62379.html
[22:45:13] <Rab> http://www.harborfreight.com/20-pc-carbide-rotary-micro-bit-assorted-set-62379.html
[22:45:18] <Rab> ;)
[22:45:39] <XXCoder> echoooo
[22:46:02] <furrywolf> when I looked at those, they were completely random (they even claimed some were rasps, but looked like endmills), and looked like resharpened pcb surplus.
[22:46:42] <Rab> I've never found an endmill in those packs, but there have been a few roughing bits.
[22:46:48] <just_pink_> how you can resharpened somthing soo small??
[22:46:52] <Rab> Mostly just drills.
[22:47:05] <furrywolf> just_pink_: how can you sharpen it in the first place? :P
[22:47:19] <just_pink_> furrywolf: no idea
[22:47:50] <just_pink_> i have 2 center drills broken ;(
[22:48:37] <furrywolf> just_pink_: in any case, those all have 1/8" shanks. this is what industry uses to avoid needing to chuck teeny tiny shafts.
[22:49:41] <just_pink_> furrywolf: http://www.harborfreight.com/center-drill-countersink-set-5-pc-60381.html
[22:49:54] <just_pink_> the smallest on this set
[22:50:22] <just_pink_> it is 1/8 shank but the tip broken
[22:56:19] <just_pink_> what's wrong with people these days? https://www.adafruit.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/flora_Risa_Rose_Gemma_Hoop_Earrings_Adafruit.jpg
[22:57:25] <Rab> I know, that Adafruit stuff is way overpriced even for jewelry.
[22:58:24] * furrywolf doesn't like jewelry
[22:58:46] <furrywolf> that's fucking hideous.
[22:59:35] <XXCoder> I dont wear any either
[22:59:49] <XXCoder> even if I loved em.. I find that one to be really ugly
[22:59:58] <XXCoder> I love leds but that is just.. yeah bad lol
[23:01:06] <just_pink_> http://mikeshouts.com/inecklace-because-there-are-apple-fangirls-too-video/
[23:01:11] <just_pink_> this is cute..
[23:01:27] <XXCoder> so, press it to turn her on :P
[23:01:29] <just_pink_> but shuld be pink led
[23:02:01] <just_pink_> so, press it to turn her OFF
[23:02:22] <furrywolf> I have some pink LEDs. I even used one on my milling machine. but I still don't like jewelry. :P
[23:02:44] <just_pink_> I'm sure this is what my husband will say
[23:02:47] <just_pink_> furrywolf: what??
[23:02:55] <XXCoder> plenty of jokes there pink.
[23:02:56] <just_pink_> PICS!!!!
[23:02:58] <XXCoder> so many.
[23:03:29] <Rab> The code in those isn't very good: http://www.garlicsoftware.com/articles/files/0662584a661f5b1cdb84dc2c17935537-1.php
[23:03:52] <furrywolf> heh, nothing fancy. I put it with a resistor on the big capacitor in the power supply (the bigger-than-a-soda-can one) to warn you it hasn't discharged yet.
[23:04:56] <just_pink_> furrywolf: I'm ating for the pics of the pink leds..
[23:05:08] <furrywolf> more if a things-are-still-live warning than anything else, since it's inside the enclosure.
[23:05:28] <just_pink_> i think 1 transistor can do it.
[23:05:51] <furrywolf> I don't have any pics. it's with my mill, and that's in storake.
[23:05:53] <furrywolf> storage
[23:06:18] <furrywolf> it's just dangling on some wires on top of the big capacitor.
[23:10:48] <just_pink_> furrywolf: why your mill in storage?
[23:11:20] <just_pink_> I have the last 30 LEDs to solder...
[23:16:59] <furrywolf> because it doesn't fit in my living room.
[23:21:32] <just_pink_> furrywolf: hope It will not rust..
[23:21:51] <just_pink_> keep it oily
[23:21:57] <furrywolf> it's covered in way too much oil to rust. :P
[23:22:13] <pcw_home> better oily that late
[23:22:45] <just_pink_> but from time to time you need to renew it..
[23:22:57] <LatheBuilder2> ugh. mandatory good bad pun acknowledgement
[23:23:14] <LatheBuilder2> =)
[23:24:06] <just_pink_> 28 left
[23:24:12] <LatheBuilder2> I have a friend that will wait weeks for the right moment to drop a pun. His are always perfectly timed too, and out of the blue
[23:25:08] * furrywolf doesn't get the pun
[23:25:35] <LatheBuilder2> better early than late. better oilly than late
[23:27:08] <LatheBuilder2> g'nite
[23:27:11] <Rab> Better oil that lathe?
[23:27:12] <furrywolf> cyas
[23:31:26] <bobo_> zeeshan|2: are you aruond ?
[23:32:49] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:33:49] <bobo_> nite nite
[23:44:54] <just_pink_> someone know about good compass?
[23:45:34] <XXCoder> for what use? camping?
[23:47:00] <just_pink_> tool...
[23:48:11] <XXCoder> oh
[23:48:15] <just_pink_> XXCoder: pair of compasses
[23:48:45] <just_pink_> the 2 metal bars...'