#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-08-06

[01:46:38] <zeeshan|2> ZzzzZz
[01:46:52] <archivist> wake up
[01:46:59] <archivist> its morning
[01:52:55] <zeeshan|2> no :P
[01:53:01] <zeeshan|2> its late night here
[01:53:08] <zeeshan|2> i just got back from the garage
[01:54:43] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/Ynjgg
[01:54:49] <zeeshan|2> first time iactually used a level
[01:54:52] <zeeshan|2> to setup a part
[01:54:54] <zeeshan|2> its really quick
[02:01:40] <MattyMatt> doesn't work on a wooden floor
[02:02:11] <MattyMatt> or with a wood machine for that matter, indicators show when I walk around my machine
[02:02:29] <zeeshan|2> :)
[02:02:42] <zeeshan|2> +/- 20 thou is okay for this part
[02:02:50] <zeeshan|2> lots of meat on the flange
[02:03:05] <MattyMatt> twss
[02:04:20] <MattyMatt> I've got a nice box level, but the weight of that distorts my machines
[02:04:36] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[02:07:36] <Deejay> moin
[04:50:22] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: boo
[04:57:57] <ganzuul> o/
[04:58:16] <Deejay> \o/
[04:59:36] <XXCoder> \o
[05:26:01] * ganzuul wants more youtube videos on machining, design and manufacturing
[05:26:24] <XXCoder> ganzuul: google additive subtractive cnc
[05:26:28] <XXCoder> amazing machine
[05:27:17] <SpeedEvil> Boring.
[05:27:31] <SpeedEvil> I want one that is additive, subtractive, multiplactative and divisive.
[05:28:13] <ganzuul> Multiplicative is die making.
[05:28:32] <XXCoder> I just want 4d cnc machin
[05:28:34] <ganzuul> Divisive is me with your fancy endmills, now shattered.
[05:28:41] <XXCoder> xyzw
[05:29:04] <ganzuul> XXCoder: I can see what they do, but I want to know why they do it that way.
[05:29:32] <XXCoder> well that part would have needed very expensive mold or even more expensive solid blodk
[05:29:34] <XXCoder> block
[05:29:47] <XXCoder> even taking more time, it still saves lot of money
[05:33:58] <ganzuul> I mean stuff like why punch out disks from sheet metal when you can slice a round bar, and save a lot of material?
[05:34:21] <XXCoder> sheets is vastly cheaper
[05:34:55] <ganzuul> But isn't bars what the foundries squeeze out early in the process?
[05:35:10] <XXCoder> dunno
[05:35:19] <Sync_> sure
[05:35:22] <Sync_> but that is not the point
[05:36:16] <ganzuul> I need to own a foundry to make an optimal manufacturing chain?
[05:36:44] <XXCoder> making disks out of round bar makes more waste than from sheets im sure
[05:36:57] <XXCoder> even if not, sheets is still a lot cheaper
[05:37:05] <ganzuul> I fugure you'd use wire EDM
[05:37:11] <ganzuul> ~ figure
[05:37:18] <XXCoder> you make disks out of round bar with lathe if precision really is important
[05:37:33] <Sync_> because wire edm is super cheap ganzuul
[05:37:34] <ganzuul> Wasteful....
[05:37:36] <XXCoder> at work coworker is making 200 disks out of each bar, very thin ones
[05:37:46] <XXCoder> only 25% turn onto parts
[05:37:46] <Sync_> also the waste is recyclable
[05:37:58] <XXCoder> 25% of bar that is
[05:38:31] <XXCoder> but well buyer really needed precision that stamping out disks would not give
[05:38:43] <ganzuul> Don't you get really bad money for scrap?
[05:38:58] <Sync_> yes
[05:39:01] <Sync_> but who cares
[05:39:07] <ganzuul> \o/
[05:39:08] <Sync_> your profit has been made
[05:39:10] * ganzuul cares
[05:39:34] <XXCoder> you would care more about profitability, and meeting customer accuracy needs
[05:39:58] <Sync_> machining is wasteful, that is kinda the point of it
[05:40:10] <ganzuul> I can make a profit by conning war vets out of their pension, but I'm more interested in creating wealth.
[05:40:11] <Sync_> taking raw stock, and making it into a finished product
[05:40:19] <XXCoder> if we could make parts without waste that'd be amazing
[05:40:31] <XXCoder> maybe in future
[05:40:55] <Sync_> unlikely
[05:40:57] <ganzuul> What about dumping the chips into a ball mill, and do additive manufacturing with the powedr?
[05:41:11] <Sync_> not cost effective
[05:41:16] <Sync_> easier to remelt them
[05:41:19] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:41:46] <XXCoder> or make fancy aura crystals using alum chips, stones copper and other bullshit in epoxy lol
[05:42:02] <XXCoder> I laughed so hard when I first found out that specific usage for alum chips
[05:42:49] <Sync_> ganzuul: show me a process where turning bars produces less waste than punching sheets
[05:43:23] <ganzuul> I figure wire EDM could be less wasteful.
[05:43:38] <Sync_> no
[05:43:47] <Sync_> you get a lot of wire as waste
[05:43:53] <ganzuul> hmm
[05:43:56] <Sync_> since it is single use
[05:44:28] <XXCoder> yeah unless you invent a way to cut with ZERO width there will always be wastage
[05:44:35] <Sync_> also consider process cost
[05:44:51] <XXCoder> hell even rods you still must first turn it to make sure all has same diameter and good roundness.
[05:44:55] <Sync_> there is no point in saving .1c per part when the machining process costs 1000x more
[05:45:11] <ganzuul> Process cost is what I'm trying to really understand.
[05:45:45] <XXCoder> ganzuul: some of parts I have made or saw being made has a LOT of chips
[05:45:55] <XXCoder> for example this tube with slanted plate on it
[05:46:00] <ganzuul> Say, I buy a Russian sub with a nuclear ractor intact.
[05:46:06] <XXCoder> it needs block 5"x5"x8"
[05:46:15] <XXCoder> result is 3" diameter tube
[05:46:21] <XXCoder> 4 inches long
[05:46:34] <XXCoder> and roughly 4.5" slant plate
[05:46:49] <XXCoder> it HAS to be that big
[05:46:59] <XXCoder> and its 6 inches long sorry lol
[05:47:18] <XXCoder> rod of 5" diameter would cost more
[05:48:24] <ganzuul> How do you turn an ellipse on a lathe...?
[05:48:49] <ganzuul> Unless I totally misunderstood the geometry.
[05:48:52] <XXCoder> turn big block into big rod
[05:49:03] <ganzuul> hm
[05:49:04] <XXCoder> do small tube, leave big cynder
[05:49:09] <ganzuul> right
[05:49:10] <XXCoder> then finally 5 axis mill
[05:49:37] <XXCoder> one step mill, to make starter rod on top of block
[05:49:45] <XXCoder> 3 steps lathe to do tube stuff
[05:49:47] <ganzuul> So you could theoretically put a short rod at a slant in the lathe.
[05:49:50] <XXCoder> and final mill
[05:50:08] <XXCoder> nope
[05:50:10] <XXCoder> inbalanced
[05:50:22] <XXCoder> it would stress and deform tube out of .003 tolence
[05:51:16] <ganzuul> This is why I want to make everything about of SiC/C composite.
[05:51:23] <ganzuul> ~out of
[05:52:03] <ganzuul> And gold.
[05:55:22] <ganzuul> Why would stamped steel not meet tolerances?
[05:55:47] <XXCoder> disks my companys making is some brass alloy
[05:55:55] <XXCoder> and tolenence is hella out there
[05:56:29] <ganzuul> Discs, or disks with holes in them?
[05:56:48] <XXCoder> disk with hole actuallu
[05:56:59] <ganzuul> Gaskets?
[05:57:06] <malcom2073> Heh, speaking of waste. We build some enclosures, 24x24x12". Milled out of a solid block of aluminum
[05:57:13] <malcom2073> built*
[05:57:17] <ganzuul> lol
[05:57:32] <XXCoder> dang
[05:57:35] <XXCoder> so much chips.
[05:57:41] <malcom2073> Stupid wasteful, but god damn they looked beautiful
[05:59:16] <XXCoder> why not
[05:59:21] <XXCoder> its your money
[05:59:35] <XXCoder> lol http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2015/08/02
[06:01:07] <ganzuul> Maybe this is why inflation keeps increasing...
[06:03:17] <Sync_> no
[06:05:31] <ganzuul> XXCoder: I invented a way to cut with zero waste!
[06:06:21] <ganzuul> With die punches!
[06:06:32] <XXCoder> no that still has waste
[06:07:02] <ganzuul> Not if you have perfect geometry.
[06:07:31] <XXCoder> actually even with square cuts you still must have wastage. you cant do edge to edge stamps
[06:07:54] <ganzuul> hm
[06:08:35] <XXCoder> there is a way though
[06:08:37] <XXCoder> molds.
[06:08:51] <XXCoder> thats if you has loose tolence
[06:08:59] <XXCoder> and dont worry about surface finish
[06:09:50] <XXCoder> as soon as you use tools to make it more precise.. boom waste
[06:11:28] <ganzuul> What if you use an inert atmosphere when cutting, and you don't use liquid coolant but instead the inert gas, and you take care that the chips don't get contaminated.
[06:11:55] <SpeedEvil> inert gas doesn't stop stuff melting
[06:12:06] <ganzuul> Could you maybe use a power hammer to work the stuff back into solid stuff?
[06:12:16] <SpeedEvil> Sure, in principle.
[06:12:16] <XXCoder> not with aluminium
[06:12:30] <XXCoder> you have never actually touched aluminium in your life
[06:12:32] <SpeedEvil> If it was argon, I'd think so
[06:12:47] <XXCoder> it rusts over very rapidly, with very thin coating of hard rust
[06:13:04] <XXCoder> clear and very hard
[06:13:05] <ganzuul> Alumina...
[06:13:11] <SpeedEvil> Not in an inert gas environment with no oxygen
[06:13:27] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: yeah but it'd have to stay in it while being compressed
[06:13:31] <SpeedEvil> sure
[06:13:43] <SpeedEvil> practically speaking - melting it is way easier
[06:13:48] <XXCoder> I got a idea how to actually touch alum though
[06:14:08] <XXCoder> wear a oxygen mask, fill entire room with inert gas
[06:14:11] <XXCoder> mill alum
[06:14:14] <XXCoder> touch it. done
[06:14:15] <SpeedEvil> Sweep up the chips, heat, pour flux, done
[06:14:22] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: argon is not cheap
[06:14:25] <XXCoder> not that it would make any difference in feeling lol
[06:14:26] <SpeedEvil> nitrogen won't work
[06:14:57] <XXCoder> well a box around mill I guess, and a way to get hands in without glove but keep oxygen out
[06:15:14] <XXCoder> it actually isnt easy to touch true alum lol
[06:15:57] <ganzuul> Positive pressure
[06:16:34] <XXCoder> to lessen argon leakage, airtight seal around arms lol
[06:16:46] <XXCoder> lol http://cheezburger.com/8545808896/funny-memes-grown-ups-coloring-book
[06:16:47] <ganzuul> Elbow grease
[06:17:43] <ganzuul> micky with 5 o' clock shade.lol
[06:18:10] <XXCoder> its perfect with frog really.
[06:19:54] <ganzuul> Why do people melt aluminium cans instead of buying the stuff?
[06:20:08] <XXCoder> free
[06:20:35] <XXCoder> my most favorite so far http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/3/5/8/433358_v1.jpg
[06:21:36] <ganzuul> Need propane.
[06:21:53] <ganzuul> Maybe LNG is just that cheap...
[06:22:08] <XXCoder> thefordboy (youtube) uses used motor oil as fuel to kiln
[06:22:17] <ganzuul> :o
[06:22:34] <XXCoder> seems it burns so well there is no smoke at all
[06:23:45] <XXCoder> I mean myfordboy
[06:24:03] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9YoRMoO5Y
[06:24:13] <ganzuul> thanks
[06:24:53] <XXCoder> he also has videos making his amazing kiln
[06:25:34] <ganzuul> Is he ISO 9001 certified?
[06:25:39] <XXCoder> no idea
[06:25:49] <jthornton> I made a burner similar to myfordboy but US propane must be different as I had to modify it to get it to work
[06:26:09] <XXCoder> he seems to be older guy (he "kinda" showed himself on one of videos but hes very private guy)
[06:26:38] <XXCoder> you cn see how strongly it burns
[06:26:54] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/casting/Burner%20Test%2003.jpg
[06:28:10] <XXCoder> degassing nice
[06:28:33] <ganzuul> jthornton: pretty
[06:28:45] <CaptHindsight> ganzuul: not only is he ISO approved I've seen his Astronaut ID Card and he is NSF approved
[06:28:45] <XXCoder> nice
[06:29:12] <XXCoder> what does alum drossing flux do
[06:29:13] <ganzuul> :o
[06:29:25] <fenn> XXCoder: myford is an old lathe manufacturer popular with hobby machinists
[06:30:26] <jthornton> it makes the dross float to the top
[06:30:31] <jthornton> so you can skim it off
[06:30:44] <XXCoder> dross = not alum?
[06:30:51] <CaptHindsight> yes
[06:30:54] <XXCoder> like carbon or steel paracles
[06:31:03] <fenn> the dross already floats to the top; the flux just makes it not stick to the molten aluminum so much
[06:31:21] <ganzuul> Is it required to introduce the fuel in the same path as the air in those? Or could you introduce the fuel from the bottom and the air slanted from the side, so you'd be cooling the sides with the air?
[06:31:28] <XXCoder> one of things I want to make is stirling motor he made
[06:32:00] <fenn> dross is mostly aluminum oxide
[06:32:22] <XXCoder> I bet cheap stuff like soda cans has lot oxide
[06:32:26] <XXCoder> chips too
[06:32:35] <awallin> it's a reprap, he's making parts for the casting setup by casting! ;)
[06:32:41] <CaptHindsight> not inside, mostly on the surface
[06:33:18] <fenn> soda cans are anodized so yeah they have a thick layer of oxide
[06:33:45] <CaptHindsight> whats a good application for dross? sandpaper?
[06:33:47] <jthornton> fenn, have you reclaimed aluminum in bulk like with a barrel and wood fire?
[06:33:58] <fenn> yes
[06:34:15] <jthornton> I want to do that when it cool off a bit outside
[06:34:19] <jthornton> any tips?
[06:34:20] <fenn> i have done car wheels like that, just put it on top of the foundry and it gets hot enough to break easily with a hammer
[06:34:43] <CaptHindsight> xmas gifts for the person who has everything?
[06:34:48] <fenn> little droplets can spray off so be careful and wear a full face mask
[06:34:56] <XXCoder> there is chemical process to make alum oxide oxide
[06:34:59] <XXCoder> a white powder
[06:35:05] <XXCoder> its great sandpaper
[06:35:20] <jthornton> I've seen a setup where there is a 1/4 of a barrel with water in it and a grate then a second barrel on top, build a wood fire then dump in the scrap
[06:35:33] <CaptHindsight> who would have guessed?
[06:36:07] <fenn> jthornton: i usually break down large scrap while waiting for the charge to melt, it's waste heat otherwise
[06:36:27] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: what's aluminum oxide oxide?
[06:36:35] <XXCoder> aluminium rust's rust
[06:36:37] <jthornton> I didn't think of that
[06:36:44] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: alum is weird stuff
[06:37:06] <fenn> there are probably more efficient foundry designs that pre-heat the air
[06:37:08] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: pure alum rusts very fast, but that rust can evenually rust
[06:37:08] <CaptHindsight> so it's like magic?
[06:37:26] <CaptHindsight> so this is a double oxide?
[06:37:41] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: well like I said earlier, nobody has ever actually touched aluminium lol
[06:38:06] <CaptHindsight> I ain't got Wobody
[06:38:10] <fenn> ... and lived to tell the tale
[06:38:23] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: yeah if you see white stuff on aluminium it is double rust
[06:38:39] <CaptHindsight> what about the clear oxide?
[06:38:48] <XXCoder> its first rust
[06:38:49] <CaptHindsight> ah, it's clear so invisible
[06:38:49] <fenn> 1.5x rust
[06:39:07] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: and its VERY thin
[06:39:19] <XXCoder> we sell thick ones as gems lol
[06:39:59] <CaptHindsight> so < say 500nm clear and first oxide then >1um or so double oxide aluminum, got it
[06:40:21] <XXCoder> nah its not question of how thick it is
[06:40:25] <CaptHindsight> fascinating
[06:40:51] <CaptHindsight> I forgot the question already, remind me
[06:42:23] <CaptHindsight> me thinks the chemistry in question is slightly off
[06:43:25] <CaptHindsight> might it be structure as well as chemistry?
[06:44:26] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Ilxsu-JlY
[06:44:28] <XXCoder> fun
[06:45:03] <just_pink> hello
[06:46:06] <CaptHindsight> hello jp
[06:47:47] <just_pink> loong night
[06:49:21] <just_pink> someone have an experience with the 80/20 products?
[06:49:34] <XXCoder> I was planning to use 80/20 but ended up not
[06:50:09] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: I can't find that info
[06:50:31] <CaptHindsight> just_pink: they are located in Indiana, they are the poster child for low cost t-slot extrusions
[06:50:43] <CaptHindsight> low cost, no frills
[06:50:50] <XXCoder> seattle is nearest for me, still quite far
[06:50:58] <XXCoder> 2 hours drive if I recall
[06:51:44] <just_pink> I'm looking for the fastners for the 1050?
[06:52:25] <CaptHindsight> not happy with the $2ea fasteners?
[06:52:58] <XXCoder> $2 each? sounds expensive
[06:53:02] <CaptHindsight> (commie, non-conformist)
[06:53:45] <just_pink> you mean 0.2
[06:53:47] <just_pink> http://www.fastenal.com/catalog_pages/2013/01-134.pdf
[06:53:51] <CaptHindsight> just_pink: look at the slot size and find less expensive fasteners
[06:54:03] <just_pink> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/38130?r=~|categoryl1:%22600000%20Fasteners%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22600072%20Nuts%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22600123%20Weld%20Nuts%22|~
[06:54:12] <just_pink> don't buy the brand name
[06:54:39] <XXCoder> is there off brand 87020 beams?
[06:55:13] <XXCoder> er 80/20
[06:55:45] <fenn> the pot of aluminum in that video didn't need flux, it was pointless to add flux to such a clean pot
[06:56:39] <just_pink> XXCoder: I mean buy the 80/20 beams but don't use the 80/20 fastners - just buy of the shelf weld nuts
[06:56:47] <XXCoder> lol ok
[06:58:18] <carper> Thinking of building a cnc cam/spindle grinder at some point in the next 12 months about the size of a 9 x 36 lathe using a slant bed with hybrid steppers/encoders with autoprobing to. can anyone see any problems with the idea? i just dont want to start the bad practice of using a machine post grinder on my cnc lathe. https://www.sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1032
[06:59:57] <CaptHindsight> just_pink: how is 80/20 supposed to stay in business if you only purchase their aluminum and not their steel fasteners?
[07:00:14] <XXCoder> welcome to capitalism
[07:00:53] <just_pink> CaptHindsight: they sell the same thing for 10 times more
[07:02:30] <fenn> carper: why slant bed on a grinder? it doesn't make chips
[07:02:44] <SpeedEvil> Sure it does, they're just smaller.
[07:04:44] <XXCoder> and more floaty
[07:04:47] <XXCoder> heh
[07:07:00] <carper> fenn:no reason other than it makes construction easier
[07:07:35] <SpeedEvil> Cutting forces being lower is nice
[07:07:42] <SpeedEvil> you can just use drawer slides.
[07:08:33] <fenn> makes replacing the ways cheaper at least :P
[07:12:30] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: you're starting to sound like an "over builder"
[07:13:20] <SpeedEvil> yeah - skate bearings on plywood, sorry
[07:13:41] <XXCoder> bearings too much work
[07:14:01] <fenn> laser cut acrylic on acrylic
[07:14:52] <fenn> myfordboy says "Regretably I know of no young people who are interested. I am a member of a model engineering club,I'm almost the youngest."
[07:15:09] <XXCoder> I wish he would caption videos
[07:15:33] <fenn> the videos i have seen have no voice over at all
[07:15:40] <fenn> this was from a blog post
[07:15:45] <XXCoder> oh
[07:15:59] <XXCoder> no wonder his video seem to never have any autocaptions
[07:16:49] <fenn> autocaptions are useless anyway
[07:17:15] <XXCoder> fenn: unless its old goverment videos
[07:17:24] <XXCoder> then it has amazing autocaptions
[07:17:32] <XXCoder> maybe one word out of few sentances wrong
[07:17:38] <XXCoder> typically unusual word
[07:17:40] <fenn> those are probably being done by a stenographer
[07:18:14] <fenn> i bet you could run videos through dragon dictate and get better results than youtube auto captions
[07:18:15] <CaptHindsight> "interesting enough" and "and to the left"
[07:23:04] <CaptHindsight> what wax was used to make wax lips? Are they still on the market and is the wax BSF approved?
[07:23:57] <CaptHindsight> BSF/NSF
[07:31:13] <CaptHindsight> my focus lately has turned to machinable food products
[07:44:50] <skunkworks> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,30620.0.html
[07:59:14] <Tom_itx> lcnc pauses on toolchange anyway... at least when configured for manual
[08:01:14] <skunkworks> I was liking the responce. Yes. great help
[08:02:37] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: All food is machinable if you have liquid nitrogen
[08:02:45] <Tom_itx> it did earn him the title of blockhead
[08:03:17] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: i have actually been considering making a big freezer with axes in.
[08:12:25] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyRJeZ6s8uM
[09:08:44] <just_pink> someone here??
[09:08:55] <just_pink> life?
[09:08:58] <PetefromTn_> I am HERE!!
[09:09:04] <just_pink> http://www.artcotools.com/nsk-nakanishi-e2550-series-combination-system-50-000-rpm.html
[09:09:34] <just_pink> what do yu think about i as a spindle?
[09:10:17] <PetefromTn_> never used one of those....but I DO have a high quality US made 50kRPM pencil air die grinder here that is very similar
[09:10:34] <PetefromTn_> I have used it on my RF45 to do engraving work and it did fine
[09:13:05] <just_pink> I want it for pcb
[09:14:10] <PetefromTn_> the runout on mine was not too bad really but you do have to kinda be careful how you insert the tool and how much stickout you give it is also a factor. I would imagine it would work okay for light work on PCB's
[09:14:25] <membiblio> just_pink - what is the cost of that device?
[09:14:28] <PetefromTn_> mine is also not nearly as loud as you would think
[09:14:41] <skunkworks> just wear ear plugs :)
[09:14:44] <PetefromTn_> even at full stink it is bearable without hearing protection
[09:14:58] <just_pink> membiblio: I dont know - hope not too much..
[09:15:04] <Rab> Looks expensive.
[09:15:14] <Rab> Should be great for PCBs though.
[09:15:33] <just_pink> I'm looking fot somthing around 1K
[09:15:37] <PetefromTn_> probably better off with one of those dedicated electronic spindles like a kress and a custom mount tho...
[09:15:37] <membiblio> I wonder what the bearings of the motor are constructed like?
[09:15:59] <membiblio> and just_pink - why use that when a dremel works well for pcb exclusion routing?
[09:16:01] <just_pink> aldo to cut graphite electrodes
[09:16:06] <Rab> Note that it requires compressed air. Not sure if it's an air motor with some kind of electric speed regulation, or just uses air for cooling.
[09:16:15] <membiblio> Oh...
[09:16:22] <just_pink> I have the dremel 4000
[09:17:21] <just_pink> membiblio: don't get too excited.. just sink EDM that I'm working on..
[09:17:26] <membiblio> just_pink - do you have pics of graphite electrodes you make? This sounds interesting. What do use for?
[09:18:02] <membiblio> EDM? Electronic Dance Music or something else?
[09:18:08] <just_pink> I dont have the EDM yed - I'm working on it..
[09:18:12] <just_pink> yet*
[09:18:17] <just_pink> almost..
[09:18:18] <Rab> $1K for just the spindle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301257348723
[09:19:07] <Rab> $1,459 for just the controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301466982486
[09:19:18] <just_pink> EDM maching make some arcing noise - for some pepole it will be just like music.
[09:20:09] <malcom2073> If you have steppers, you can make actual music
[09:20:29] <malcom2073> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCh-LC0UCM0
[09:20:32] <just_pink> malcom2073: servo
[09:21:49] <just_pink> It's look too expensive..
[09:21:51] <just_pink> :(
[09:32:20] <fenn> 50krpm is twice as fast as a dremel
[09:32:35] <fenn> but 25 times the price
[09:33:56] <fenn> hey this one is 100krpm http://www.amazon.com/Air-Pencil-Grinder-General-100/dp/B001VY1CTW
[09:35:18] <Rab> Dental drills go up to 400Krpm and maybe higher. I've used one for PCB drilling, works great: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/pcbdrill/image/handpiece.jpg
[09:35:21] <fenn> 200krpm is still research territory it seems
[09:36:49] <Rab> Unfortunately there's no speed regulation, and they have very little torque (by design?). So you could probably use one for isolation routing, but maintaining a consistent speed would be difficult.
[09:38:23] <Rab> Also dental bur shanks tend to be 1/16" or 3/32". It might be difficult to find a drill with a 1/8" chuck, so tooling options would be very limited.
[09:40:01] <fenn> Rab: hey were you the person who made the 3d model for chips the penguin?
[09:41:11] <Rab> fenn, not I, sorry!
[09:41:40] <cradek> fenn: I wonder if ray would remember (but I doubt he has it)
[09:42:01] <cradek> fenn: I don't know where 3d_chips.ngc came from - it's older than me
[09:42:40] <fenn> i thought i saw a .dxf once
[09:43:10] <fenn> there was a "dropbox" directory on linuxcnc.org
[09:44:37] <cradek> hm yeah, I don't know where that old stuff went
[09:44:42] <cradek> maybe archive.org has it
[09:46:40] <Rab> Make your own: http://www.scorchworks.com/Blog/g-code-to-dxf-with-g-code-ripper/
[09:46:54] <fenn> i found the old dropbox but there's nothing resembling a penguin there
[09:47:37] <just_pink> Rab: the dental handpiece is noisy?
[09:48:00] <just_pink> OMG!
[09:48:06] <Rab> just_pink, ever been to the dentist?
[09:48:50] <Rab> It's not especially loud, but it's high-pitched. It needs a pretty good air supply, so the compressor might be the main noise source.
[09:48:54] <tjtr33> skunkworks, rab is rab from http://www.cnc-toolkit.com he and our old friend paul corner made chips ;)
[09:48:59] <just_pink> the cnc working almost half an hour and do nothing!
[09:50:01] <Rab> I should clarify that I'm not that rab.
[09:50:16] <tjtr33> right, sorry this is another rab
[09:50:50] <just_pink> Rab: noise is somthing that I'm really don't like
[09:51:30] <just_pink> someone have an idea how to mount a dremel to the G0704?
[09:51:58] <cradek> dremels make terrrrrible spindles
[09:52:07] <cradek> might as well use duct tape - not going to affect it much
[09:52:08] <Rab> Yeah, screw Dremels.
[09:52:13] <tjtr33> so duct tape is fine to slow
[09:52:34] <Rab> Crappy bearings, aluminum collets, high runout.
[09:52:47] <tjtr33> DuMore!
[09:54:17] <just_pink> alright guys I'm going to drive to fastenal... hope to see my cute T-slot baby
[09:54:25] <Rab> just_pink, I recommend vacuum extraction for PCB milling. Neither copper nor fiberglass dust are something you want to breathe. If you built a dust enclosure, it could also muffle the spindle noise.
[09:56:15] <fenn> dumore is a toolpost grinder attachment?
[09:56:31] <Rab> Drillmotor manufacturer.
[09:56:33] <just_pink> I'm back in about few hours (hope I can drive with 144" long beam on the car...)
[09:56:48] <fenn> get them to cut it for you
[09:58:34] <fenn> someone used to sell really simple shop-made spindles with high quality bearings and collets
[09:59:13] <fenn> the sort of thing you drive with an o-ring belt and a sewing machine motor
[09:59:46] <cradek> I have one of those - I forget the guy's name, but I know he's not making them anymore
[09:59:53] <cradek> which is too bad
[10:00:17] <cradek> I've replaced the bearings in mine many times, and I redid the drawbar recently
[10:00:25] <cradek> wish I had a new collet for it :-/
[10:03:06] <PetefromTn_> As I said before if I had an 0704 and wanted to machine PCB's I would remove the millhead which just unbolts and machine myself a new custom aluminum mount for an aux spindle that uses a kress or similar spindle motor or possibly one of the chinese spindle motors they sell now.
[10:07:59] <PetefromTn_> I feel I must clarify that statement with the simple fact that I have NEVER made a single PCB board in my life and would not know where to begin making one short of that :D
[10:08:31] <Rab> It's not rocket science. Your method would work.
[10:13:35] <PetefromTn_> I'm sure
[10:14:20] <PetefromTn_> I just think it is no different than an engraving setup really so that is what I would do for engraving with a High speed spindle on that machine most likely.
[10:19:28] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/pcb/dscn6119.jpg
[10:20:28] <PetefromTn_> hey that looks tight man..nice job
[10:21:19] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/little-pcbs.jpg
[10:23:33] <cradek> first picture's board was done on my desktop mill, second picture on the vmc
[10:23:45] <Rab> cradek, flawless. 2x nixie tube PCB with HV5622 driver? ;)
[10:24:03] <cradek> Rab: yep, and iirc, there's an error on the board and they are useless
[10:24:11] <PetefromTn_> what does it do?
[10:24:11] <cradek> beautiful boards though
[10:24:16] <Rab> cradek, that's terrible.
[10:24:48] <cradek> SIPO low-side switches that can be chained together, driving high voltage (neon) displays
[10:25:15] <cradek> the boards were made to be jumpered side-to-side so you can chain any number together
[10:25:43] <cradek> iirc they have parallel load too, making a perfect glitchless display
[10:26:48] <Rab> I have a nixie tube kit based on that chip which uses PWM to fade between digits. It's really slick.
[10:27:57] * PetefromTn_ only hears....bla bla bla......chained together....bla bla bla..... neon.......bla bla bla really slick LOL LOL
[10:28:14] <cradek> haha
[10:28:34] <Rab> cradek, I see 13 cathode connections per tube. What kind of tubes is that board for? Or is it made to handle multiple types?
[10:29:32] <cradek> Rab: I wanted it to support the the b5791 (very rare) as well as the ... whatever the very common number one is
[10:30:31] <cradek> I have some b5971 somewhere and someday will make a clock that shows weekday on two of them, next to h/m/s day/month on the number tubes
[10:30:33] <Rab> IN-12?
[10:30:47] <cradek> no, the burroughs one
[10:31:21] <cradek> b5991 (number) and b5971 (british flag)
[10:31:49] <skunkworks> http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/116/b/B5971.pdf
[10:32:25] <Rab> Here's a board I made for HV5622 (etched, not milled): http://reboots.g-cipher.net/time/image/timepcbfront.jpg
[10:33:35] <cradek> heh you should take photos before soldering :-)
[10:33:51] <cradek> hand-soldering smds is never very pretty
[10:34:00] <cradek> I like the curved traces
[10:55:14] <Simonious> Does CAMBAM allow one to define an axis of rotation, so that one can generate g-code for a rotary axis machine for non-symmetrical parts?
[11:10:32] <PetefromTn_> I think you can do 2 sided machining IE flipping the part in a rotary 180 degrees but I don't have fourth axis yet so have not played with it. I don't think it supports fourth axis tho
[11:20:37] <zeeshan|2> howdy
[11:27:53] <Simonious> PetefromTn_: yeah, that'd work, but I'd rather do 3 axis where the 3rd is rotary
[11:29:14] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you are wanting to do but there is that wrapper program for that
[11:29:16] <zeeshan|2> i tried my round insert face mill vs wnmg
[11:29:24] <zeeshan|2> round insert is so nice!!!!!!!!
[11:29:31] <Simonious> PetefromTn_: link?
[11:30:09] <PetefromTn_> sorry dont have one
[11:30:38] <Simonious> wrapper program.. ok.. that isn't enough to find it..
[11:32:05] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WWKN7C31e4
[11:32:25] <zeeshan|2> that machine is moving!!
[12:13:08] <zeeshan|2> it's incredible how the cutting data from one face mill to another is completely difference
[12:13:27] <zeeshan|2> the ra200 they say you can do an axial doc of .250 no problem
[12:13:43] <zeeshan|2> but the ajxu says don't go deeper than .040" at a time
[12:14:12] <zeeshan|2> but the ra200 max feed is 0.015 ipt , for ajxu 0.059!!!
[12:14:37] <zeeshan|2> similar sfm
[12:44:44] <archivist> per tooth v the whole tool?
[12:46:13] <zeeshan|2> yes full width of cut
[12:48:03] <archivist> ipt in per tooth
[13:32:43] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/angledrive.jpg
[13:33:23] <Tom_itx> bad pic but a drillbit on the end
[13:33:56] <Tom_itx> to drill a blind hole
[13:34:08] <Tom_itx> used X axis as the feed
[13:54:40] <Computer_barf> what up linuxcnc
[13:54:46] <malcom2073> hiya
[13:56:20] <Computer_barf> today cutting out a new version of hook
[13:57:33] <Computer_barf> hey malcom what cam do you use?
[13:58:58] <malcom2073> I cheat, I've not done anything complicated enough yet to use CAM :P
[14:03:27] <Computer_barf> lol i was going to say i bet you type out all the gcode manually
[14:05:48] <Computer_barf> arn't you a bit too smart not to have a robot slave?
[14:09:30] <PetefromTn_> apparently I am not LOL
[14:09:57] <Computer_barf> perhaps durring the 2025 robot slave uprising you'll be vindicated\
[14:10:29] <PetefromTn_> I can't imagine doing HALF the parts I make without CAD CAM and I make pretty simple stuff really....
[14:18:45] <serp> what cam do you all use?
[14:18:55] <serp> is there a decent open source cam out there?
[14:19:11] <Computer_barf> i use solidworks/solidcam, but i mostly don't know what im doing
[14:19:53] <Computer_barf> i WISH there was a nice linux cad/cam
[14:19:57] <serp> About the time I feel like I know what I'm doing in something I just haven't learned enough to know what I don't know yet
[14:20:25] <CaptHindsight> serp: people use everything here from doing it their head to NX and Mastercam
[14:21:02] <CaptHindsight> serp: what kinds of parts and what machine will you be using?
[14:21:50] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam has good list
[14:23:15] <CaptHindsight> didn't see http://openscam.com/ on the list
[14:27:41] <serp> CaptHindsight: well the plan is to research and build a cnc router for the local hackerspace once we move and have room. We currently use linuxcnc for our lasercutter but that's only 2D and we use Inkscape and a extension we've put together to make the gcode.
[15:09:34] <PetefromTn_> Chipped my damn 1/4 inch 2 fluter damnit... had to run to fastenal to get another one baaah!!
[15:11:56] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ did you see that adapter my bud was using to drill a blind hole?
[15:12:16] <_methods> fastenal sells end mills?
[15:12:30] <Tom_itx> he had quite a setup to get it done..
[15:12:31] <_methods> no wonder they never have and fasteners
[15:12:39] <_methods> s/and/any
[15:12:48] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Nope
[15:12:53] <PetefromTn_> _methods Yep
[15:13:14] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/angledrive.jpg
[15:13:35] <PetefromTn_> right angle head?
[15:13:36] <Tom_itx> bridgeport angle drive but the adapter on the end was kinda neat
[15:13:47] <Tom_itx> it's geared inside and the bit turns
[15:13:55] <Tom_itx> freewheels around the head
[15:14:27] <PetefromTn_> hm I guess I would have to see it work to understand what you mean
[15:14:38] <Tom_itx> regular angle drive
[15:14:58] <Tom_itx> the drive turns the first gear inside the black housing and several other gears move it away from center
[15:15:08] <Tom_itx> so you have an offset drill
[15:15:23] <Tom_itx> the drills screw in the adapter 1/4 20 or such
[15:15:32] <Tom_itx> silver soldered into the thread
[15:15:39] <PetefromTn_> is that because the fat part of the angle head won't allow him to reach into certain areas?
[15:15:51] <Tom_itx> or nothing else would either
[15:15:59] <Tom_itx> you should have seen the part
[15:16:08] <Tom_itx> i should have gotten a pic of the setup
[15:16:09] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it was impressive
[15:16:22] <Tom_itx> he used X to drill
[15:16:31] <Tom_itx> once it was all in place
[15:16:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah I figured that
[15:17:01] <Tom_itx> some long aircraft part with lots of pockets
[15:17:09] <Tom_itx> had to drill inside one of the pockets
[15:17:13] <PetefromTn_> my question is how do you adapt a bridgeport angle head to a cat40 spindle?
[15:17:25] <Tom_itx> he was using his bridgeport for this
[15:17:28] <Tom_itx> manual
[15:17:29] <PetefromTn_> ah
[15:17:53] <Tom_itx> nobody else wanted or apparently could do this
[15:18:17] <Tom_itx> had to align exact
[15:18:43] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of angular heads you can buy for Cat40 vertical spindles most are pretty expensive
[15:19:03] <Tom_itx> apparently those adapters are pretty common
[15:19:06] <Tom_itx> i'd never seen one
[15:19:44] <PetefromTn_> I've seen them a few times.
[15:22:04] <carper> anybody know whats happening as far as tormarch making pathpilot available ?
[15:22:33] <cradek> from what I understand, you can buy a copy for the cost of distribution, which is low
[15:23:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.tormach.com/pathpilot_tracking.html
[15:23:53] <Tom_itx> they have updates
[15:24:02] <Tom_itx> dunno about outright purchases
[15:24:34] <cradek> I can only find it with the hardware on their website
[15:24:45] <cradek> probably worth a phonecall if you just want the software
[15:24:52] <Tom_itx> i bet the answer is a phonecall away
[15:25:27] <carper> not exactly open source
[15:25:41] <Tom_itx> based on opensource isn't it?
[15:26:15] <carper> linuxcnc from what ive read
[15:26:30] <cradek> linuxcnc and derivatives are free software (under the GPL v2), not "open source", and the GPL does not require that they give you the software.
[15:27:10] <cradek> if you want a copy I suggest you ask them for it, and be careful about starting with accusations
[15:27:20] <Tom_itx> i don't see why you wouldn't just load linuxcnc
[15:27:26] <cradek> well yeah
[15:27:27] <cradek> that too
[15:27:47] <Tom_itx> most/all the goods have been shared
[15:28:11] <Tom_itx> anything specific to tormach would be fluff imo
[15:29:24] <Rab> I thought they had a new trajectory planner, and there was some controversy about whether that would be contributed back?
[15:29:34] <Rab> Or has that happened?
[15:29:37] <cradek> that is in linuxcnc 2.7
[15:29:41] <Rab> ahh k
[15:29:51] <Tom_itx> soon to be released
[15:29:55] <cradek> very soon to be released
[15:29:59] <Tom_itx> very very
[15:30:07] <cradek> well I wouldn't go that far :-)
[15:30:10] <Tom_itx> heh
[15:30:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=35286
[15:30:55] <Tom_itx> seems you get a pc with it
[15:31:05] <Tom_itx> i'll pass on the pc... gimme the software
[15:31:20] <cradek> and some mesa hardware I bet
[15:31:42] <Tom_itx> yeah iirc a 5i25
[15:31:52] <Tom_itx> and probably some daughter card
[15:33:28] <Tom_itx> peter said but i forgot which combo
[15:37:48] <PCW> Tormachs daughtercard
[15:51:29] <PetefromTn_> I have said it before and I will say it again. I really do not wish to take anything away from tormach but I will say that I would love for LinuxCNC to have some of the polished screensets and especially the lathe tools and graphics that pathpilot has.
[16:01:10] <zeeshan|2> ricer
[16:02:58] <zeeshan|2> The objective of this course is to provide a practical introduction to several advanced methods for digital control of dynamic systems. For each method the control philosophy, advantages, limitations, and example applications will be emphasized over mathematical details. Computer simulations will be used to demonstrate theoretical results.
[16:03:00] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[16:03:07] <zeeshan|2> looks like ill be taking a proper control course :p
[16:03:23] <zeeshan|2> http://mech.mcmaster.ca/docs/Course%20Outlines%202012-2013/2012-2013%20ME751%20Bone.pdf
[16:20:55] <bobo_> zeeshan|2 " looks like ill be taking a proper control course" Your final test will be getting Pete's tool changer working . Big Grin
[16:21:10] <zeeshan|2> bobo where have you been?!?!?!
[16:22:11] <bobo_> buildind a garage and watching
[16:22:18] <zeeshan|2> really?
[16:22:19] <zeeshan|2> nice!
[16:26:40] <zeeshan|2> anyone here machine tapers before?
[16:28:11] <bobo_> saw your mill table not square - go a round - good job fixing it. wonder if/when the tabel was off the mill did you get lots of dimensions ?
[16:28:35] <zeeshan|2> its still not 100% fixed
[16:28:35] <zeeshan|2> :[
[16:28:40] <zeeshan|2> its better, but not fixed
[16:28:54] <zeeshan|2> i didnt measure the table while it was off: P
[16:29:13] <cradek> zeeshan|2: all the time, while attempting to make cylindrical parts
[16:29:31] <zeeshan|2> cradek hahaha
[16:29:39] <cradek> but seriously
[16:29:45] <cradek> go ahead and ask your real question...
[16:29:51] <zeeshan|2> i was going to ask a dumb question
[16:29:53] <zeeshan|2> but figured it out
[16:30:00] <cradek> yay!
[16:30:20] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[16:30:25] <zeeshan|2> i was going to ask if my lathe is accurate to 0.002 in both Z and 0.001 in X
[16:30:31] <zeeshan|2> what kind of angle tolerance can i achieve
[16:30:39] <zeeshan|2> then i realized i could just do tan :)
[16:31:05] <cradek> depends on how long the taper is, surely
[16:31:19] <cradek> if it's a mile long you'll get very close to the desired angle
[16:31:32] <cradek> if it's .001 long, you could get it totally wrong
[16:31:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[16:31:49] <cradek> so I doubt you're thinking about it right
[16:31:57] <zeeshan|2> i am!
[16:31:58] <cradek> (I'm totally serious)
[16:32:04] <zeeshan|2> i know my taper length is .875 nominal
[16:32:09] <cradek> aha
[16:32:28] <zeeshan|2> then i know it can be out by 0.002 in z , so on the max side it'll be .877
[16:32:47] <cradek> yes I agree you can calculate the angular error knowing this extra piece of information
[16:33:03] <zeeshan|2> the taper starts at a radius of .39, but it can be max .391
[16:33:06] <just_pink> hiii
[16:33:10] <zeeshan|2> so im u sing those to to figure out max and min angle
[16:33:12] <zeeshan|2> am i right??
[16:33:22] <zeeshan|2> i should be able to do trig :[
[16:33:23] <just_pink> back from fastenal!!!!
[16:33:23] <cradek> yes I think so
[16:36:09] <zeeshan|2> i think the hardest part about machining as a side business is quoting jobs
[16:36:17] <zeeshan|2> you dont wanna overquote, or under quote
[16:36:43] <cradek> yeah I've felt that way about various endeavors
[16:37:15] <cradek> I learned a very important thing I will share with you: don't take work you don't want to do
[16:37:46] <zeeshan|2> i rejected one the other day
[16:37:52] <zeeshan|2> guy wanted me to cut 0.1mm slits on a nozzle
[16:37:55] <zeeshan|2> its not even worth it
[16:38:08] <zeeshan|2> person likely was being too cheap to buy the replacement
[16:38:58] <bobo_> zeeshan the next time the mill table is off---- think about getting mounting dimensions . could be usefull for what other manufactors stuff could fit
[16:38:59] <Loetmichel> cradek: as an ex-boss had put it: "some jobs are more fun if some cometitor has to do them!"
[16:39:05] <Loetmichel> competitor
[16:39:48] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: good point
[16:39:53] <zeeshan|2> it isn't too bad to take off thouigh
[16:40:01] <zeeshan|2> hoist and 6 bolts
[16:41:19] <zeeshan|2> cradek help me quote a job!!
[16:48:39] <bobo_> zeeshan and Pete in Tenn , why havent you-all worked on making a fuel injector --DIY repair kit ? sell it on e bay
[16:48:55] <zeeshan|2> buy new injectors
[16:50:36] <bobo_> red necks don't buy new injectors , without trying to fix the old ones first
[16:53:24] <bobo_> new injectors are expensive
[16:54:03] <Deejay> gn8
[16:55:07] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: to repair which model injectors? Many are not serviceable since they are over molded.
[17:00:06] <bobo_> CaptHindsight: I havent looked at any of the newer stuff , was thinking of the very old style injector and ,as usual, thinking current injectors are similar. oh well
[17:00:08] <CaptHindsight> I had a hard time finding piezo injectors that came apart easily
[17:07:44] <jdh> http://wilmington.craigslist.org/hvo/5158237654.html
[17:09:13] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/uLETi5r.jpg
[17:09:17] <zeeshan|2> how much would you charge for 10? :p
[17:09:22] <zeeshan|2> lets see how far i was off
[17:10:05] <Tom_itx> 25 ea
[17:10:29] <zeeshan|2> im completely far off
[17:10:30] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:10:34] <zeeshan|2> was that a troll
[17:10:36] <zeeshan|2> or you being serious
[17:10:42] <Tom_itx> what did you charge?
[17:10:56] <zeeshan|2> 60$ each
[17:11:03] <Tom_itx> that's more like it
[17:11:17] <zeeshan|2> id prolly do it for 45
[17:11:20] <Tom_itx> i was gonna subcontract china
[17:11:21] <zeeshan|2> but i hate production
[17:19:33] <just_pink> LOL the craigslist ad
[17:24:33] <CaptHindsight> http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5154d126e4b05239ba7f6fed/t/535d09afe4b06f620ab8a35a/1398606255871/20140427_072520.jpg nice model of lathe
[17:28:59] <just_pink> I'm back with 12 feet of aluminum extrusion ..
[17:29:48] <andypugh> That’s a jolly nice lathe, the Craigslist one.
[17:30:04] <andypugh> Well, it woud be if it was together and didn’t need a spindle bearing.
[17:30:44] <andypugh> Rather a lot like the Holbrook Minor, and I liked those enough to buy one.
[17:31:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.southbendlathe.com/ still in business
[17:32:03] <bobo_> wonder who made the south bend 1307 . dought that it was designed and built in South Bend Indiana
[17:32:15] <roycroft> south bend lathes are made in china now
[17:32:20] <roycroft> and grizzly are the exclusive importer
[17:32:43] <zeeshan|2> http://pics.woodstockint.com/pics/jpeg500/s/sb1046pf-c4ce4605a19bea73263b3d349b0f8a37.jpg
[17:32:44] <zeeshan|2> wow
[17:32:50] <zeeshan|2> that looks like a colchester clausing lathe
[17:34:24] <CaptHindsight> I like the beer mug holder
[17:34:36] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: got access to tandfonline.com?
[17:34:38] <zeeshan|2> for journals
[17:35:16] <CaptHindsight> nope
[17:35:33] <zeeshan|2> fak
[17:35:34] <zeeshan|2> i need this paper
[17:35:35] <zeeshan|2> Biaxial bulge testing of polymeric sheets
[17:35:45] <zeeshan|2> seems like my library doesnt have access
[17:36:11] <CaptHindsight> have the direct link? I can ask around
[17:36:19] <zeeshan|2> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00222347208212563?journalCode=lmsb20#.VcPbk_lVhBc
[17:36:24] <zeeshan|2> i appreciate it
[17:36:42] <zeeshan|2> old paper :)
[17:37:06] <CaptHindsight> kanzure: do you have access to ^^^^
[17:45:55] <malcom2073> furrywolf: I fixed my website, thumbnails are now 150x150px, just for you :P
[17:50:05] <zeeshan|2> haha
[17:50:14] <zeeshan|2> malcom2073: i tried to make a website
[17:50:17] <zeeshan|2> but i gave up quickly ;[
[17:50:25] <malcom2073> Heh, it's a *lot* of work keeping a blog up to date
[17:50:30] <zeeshan|2> yea dude
[17:50:35] <malcom2073> I like it for recording my work, but seriously it takes effort
[17:50:41] <zeeshan|2> i honestly made it
[17:50:48] <zeeshan|2> to show it as a portfolio
[17:50:51] <zeeshan|2> for jobs
[17:50:53] <malcom2073> Editing images, resizing, uploading, typing up stuff, making it sound professional, spell checking it so you don't sound like a noob
[17:50:59] <zeeshan|2> (like i wanna get hired in the future after masters)
[17:51:03] <zeeshan|2> and im sure itll give me a bit of a edge
[17:51:15] <malcom2073> I kinda made mine for that. It landed me one, or at least got me in the door at my last gig
[17:51:36] <zeeshan|2> yep i think its important
[17:51:49] <zeeshan|2> i dont mean to degrade others
[17:51:58] <zeeshan|2> but theres 100 mech eng undergrads for example
[17:52:13] <zeeshan|2> now 20 of them are A students
[17:52:21] <zeeshan|2> theres 10 jobs available
[17:52:24] <malcom2073> [18:28:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont mean to degrade others
[17:52:27] <malcom2073> BS, you totally do :P
[17:52:41] <zeeshan|2> (10 jobs that are really something highly desired)
[17:52:53] <zeeshan|2> how do you show you're different and more capable than those 20 students
[17:52:57] <zeeshan|2> you show your extra work
[17:53:21] <zeeshan|2> no i don;t man
[17:53:32] <zeeshan|2> because i do know another 2 people from that group of 20
[17:53:36] <malcom2073> I like both my jobs, but they're both extraordinary vauge... so not really the kind of thing you can cast a net around for... but when one comes up, there's not much competition at least not here
[17:53:46] <zeeshan|2> that do a lot of extra work and are totally worth hiring for a proper job
[17:53:56] <zeeshan|2> ah
[17:53:56] <malcom2073> I should've gotten a degree of some sort :P
[17:56:10] <malcom2073> So I discovered, there's a kind of tapping tool, that you can stick in your drill chuck, and it'll let you manually tap using the spindle as a centering tool. Keeps it perfectly straight
[17:56:31] <malcom2073> It slides up and down, so you don't have to inch down the Z to keep it touching
[17:56:52] <zeeshan|2> isnt that a regular tapping head
[17:57:00] <malcom2073> Apparently not any of the kind I've used before
[17:57:18] <malcom2073> erm
[17:57:19] <malcom2073> not powered
[17:57:20] <malcom2073> manual
[17:57:21] <zeeshan|2> oh
[17:57:25] <zeeshan|2> youre talking like a tap follower
[17:57:28] <malcom2073> yeah!
[17:57:29] <malcom2073> that
[17:57:43] <zeeshan|2> those are really nice
[17:57:50] <zeeshan|2> but i dont have one
[17:57:52] <zeeshan|2> im ghetto
[17:58:06] <malcom2073> Neither do I, saw someone using it at work
[17:58:08] <zeeshan|2> when im making stuff on the lathe, like a bushing
[17:58:09] <zeeshan|2> or something
[17:58:14] <zeeshan|2> i always keep an extra one
[17:58:20] <zeeshan|2> i use the bushing as a tap guide
[17:58:21] <malcom2073> The other night I was inching the quill down as I tapped to keep it centered :-D
[17:58:27] <zeeshan|2> it wont be as square as your method
[17:58:30] <zeeshan|2> but a lot better than nothing
[17:58:46] <zeeshan|2> do you know where you can buy one?
[17:58:49] <zeeshan|2> i tried to search around
[17:58:49] <malcom2073> Unknown
[17:58:52] <zeeshan|2> but couldnt find it
[17:59:23] <zeeshan|2> http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-30-Adjustable-Tensioned/dp/B005317ZMC
[17:59:24] <zeeshan|2> hm
[18:00:25] <malcom2073> I see what that would do, and that would work... this actually was built into the tap handle
[18:01:04] <zeeshan|2> man i havent sold much using an auction
[18:01:07] <zeeshan|2> usually its buy it now
[18:01:08] <zeeshan|2> http://my.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbay&gbh=1&CurrentPage=MyeBayAllSelling&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK:MESX
[18:01:14] <zeeshan|2> but its quite EXCITING to see people bid
[18:01:44] <zeeshan|2> i've already gotten more than the 20 i was expecting
[18:02:02] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: A my.ebay link won’t work for anyone else
[18:02:09] <zeeshan|2> sorry
[18:02:15] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261986624189?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[18:02:16] <zeeshan|2> there
[18:02:25] <zeeshan|2> 3 hours left
[18:02:31] <zeeshan|2> i think ill cook food and watch the last 15 min
[18:02:38] <zeeshan|2> exciting
[18:11:11] <JT-Shop> you bidding on that for historical reasons?
[18:12:07] <malcom2073> I think he's selling it
[18:12:27] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 what was that flange for?
[18:12:40] <zeeshan|2> JT-Shop: selling :P
[18:12:43] <Rab> zeeshan|2, hey, I have one of those Mitutoyo mics!
[18:13:07] <kanzure> CaptHindsight: nope don't have
[18:13:07] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: not sure
[18:13:09] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 did you see that adapter my bud had for drilling a blind hole?
[18:13:16] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: yes
[18:13:26] <Tom_itx> nearly impossible to access
[18:13:26] <zeeshan|2> the bridgeport right angle attachment
[18:13:30] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: How did that work? Did the adapter have some kind of a geartrain in it?
[18:13:35] <Tom_itx> with the drill adapter on it
[18:13:41] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:13:53] <malcom2073> Oh nice, I used to have a ratchet wrench like that
[18:13:58] <Tom_itx> the drills were silver soldered into a 1/4 20 threaded insert
[18:14:23] <malcom2073> What went in the drilled hole?
[18:14:32] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/angledrive.jpg
[18:14:43] <Tom_itx> for those that don't know what we're talking about
[18:14:44] <malcom2073> yeah
[18:14:47] <malcom2073> heh
[18:14:53] <Tom_itx> malcom2073, i'm not sure it was an aircraft part
[18:15:02] <Tom_itx> large aluminum hogout
[18:15:05] <malcom2073> Magic smoke
[18:15:09] <Tom_itx> with lots of pockets
[18:15:20] <malcom2073> Heh, cool solution though
[18:15:24] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: do you work in a machine shop?
[18:15:31] <Tom_itx> it went in a hole and had to be on a particular angle
[18:15:42] <Tom_itx> zeeshan-lab, i stopped by to see my bud today
[18:15:52] <Tom_itx> he still does some in his personal shop
[18:16:03] <Tom_itx> still has a cnc, bridgeport, lathe etc
[18:16:24] <Tom_itx> i have in the past
[18:16:25] <zeeshan|2> ah cool
[18:16:37] <zeeshan|2> why not anymore
[18:16:39] <Tom_itx> he's the one i helped wire up all his cncs
[18:16:44] <Tom_itx> he retired
[18:16:47] <Tom_itx> and sold it
[18:17:05] <Tom_itx> still does contract work for those guys though
[18:17:19] <Tom_itx> and plays with his racecar
[18:17:36] <Tom_itx> one supports the other. i'll let you figure out which is which
[18:17:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:17:49] <malcom2073> heh
[18:17:51] <zeeshan|2> i certainly know that too well
[18:17:58] <zeeshan|2> i actually got my manifolds mounted on the car!!!
[18:18:00] <zeeshan|2> after machining
[18:18:04] <zeeshan|2> so now i can rest easy
[18:18:07] <zeeshan|2> cause they fit correctly
[18:18:11] <zeeshan|2> i just gotta VHT paint them
[18:18:14] <zeeshan|2> and wrap em up
[18:18:24] <zeeshan|2> and they can go on permanently :P
[18:18:41] <zeeshan|2> permanent in a "race car" sense
[18:18:47] <andypugh> There is a slotting head for my milling machine on eBay.
[18:18:55] <andypugh> I have a keyway that I need to cut
[18:19:11] <andypugh> But… It’s £500 quid starting price and the mill cost me £700
[18:19:16] <zeeshan|2> haha
[18:19:27] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: youre a rich ford engineer
[18:19:29] <zeeshan|2> you can buy it!
[18:19:50] <andypugh> I _can_ but I don’t want it enough.
[18:19:52] <malcom2073> Heh, c'mon, you of all people knows you pay way more for your tooling than for your machine :P
[18:20:07] <zeeshan|2> malcom2073: i didn't realize how much that saying really means
[18:20:15] <andypugh> But a CNC slotting head would be cool.
[18:20:20] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: why
[18:20:27] <zeeshan|2> you wanna make hexs?
[18:20:37] <Tom_itx> andypugh, you mean like a slitting saw?
[18:20:47] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: no
[18:21:16] <zeeshan|2> its like a shaper
[18:21:21] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391215560909
[18:21:23] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[18:21:31] <Tom_itx> i know what that is
[18:21:37] <zeeshan|2> am i right andypugh?
[18:21:48] <andypugh> Yes, though acting towards the table
[18:22:04] <zeeshan|2> the main thing i can see that being used for
[18:22:09] <zeeshan|2> is hexs
[18:22:12] <zeeshan|2> and splines
[18:22:37] <zeeshan|2> and internal keyway also
[18:22:49] <zeeshan|2> what else can you use it for?
[18:23:03] <andypugh> I don’t know yet.
[18:23:14] <andypugh> Cutting sharp corners?
[18:23:23] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[18:23:28] <zeeshan|2> finish off rounded corners with this
[18:23:41] <Tom_itx> rounded corners are stronger
[18:24:03] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: youre telling that to mighty engineer andypugh
[18:24:05] <zeeshan|2> :P
[18:24:21] <Tom_itx> hrm, yes i am :)
[18:24:30] <andypugh> A cnc slotter might be good for making dies
[18:24:34] <zeeshan|2> but your common makes me think of something
[18:24:44] <zeeshan|2> when do you really need sharp corners
[18:24:51] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it needed for dies for plastic injection molding
[18:25:01] <Tom_itx> yeah they have a place
[18:25:02] <zeeshan|2> but what else is common
[18:25:09] <zeeshan|2> that you need sharp corners for?
[18:25:38] <Tom_itx> some cases you can undercut the corner too
[18:26:08] <Sync_> heh, connecting the helmholtz resonator in the car makes a significant different, I'd not have thought
[18:26:22] <zeeshan|2> Sync_: butt dyno?
[18:26:37] <Sync_> not power wise
[18:26:42] <Sync_> but noise wise
[18:27:02] <Sync_> power was in the noise of the dyno
[18:28:44] <zeeshan|2> yay
[18:28:47] <zeeshan|2> i scored that adapter job
[18:29:01] <zeeshan|2> this customer is really good, he didnt just f off w/ the quote
[18:29:16] <zeeshan|2> he told me its too high for him and that thanks for the quote
[18:29:23] <zeeshan|2> and we can work in the future
[18:29:29] <zeeshan|2> gave me at least some clue as to wtf is going on
[18:29:44] <Sync_> andypugh: you can just move the table up and down instead of buying the slotting head
[18:31:22] <andypugh> Sync_: I am wondering about that, but it seems a bit hard on the ballscrew
[18:32:08] <Sync_> well, those are replacable
[18:32:13] <Sync_> but it is certainly slower
[18:35:37] <andypugh> I am OK with slow. I would also need a fixed holder that reacted against something other than the spindle beartings.
[18:36:37] <Sync_> or just push against the spindle
[18:36:52] <Sync_> so you can index without a rotary
[18:37:58] <zeeshan|2> what is a common free machining steel
[18:37:59] <zeeshan|2> 12L14
[18:38:02] <zeeshan|2> ?
[18:38:09] <zeeshan|2> i want something you can buy readily
[18:38:13] <zeeshan|2> in round bar
[18:39:47] <Sync_> I'd get the slotting head, they are a very useful tool
[18:46:19] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: EN1A
[18:46:42] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[18:46:44] <andypugh> You probably can’t get that in the US
[18:46:47] <zeeshan|2> never heard that designation before
[18:46:57] <Tom_itx> it's likely under another name
[18:46:58] <zeeshan|2> i think theres a couple types
[18:47:00] <zeeshan|2> leaded steel
[18:47:05] <zeeshan|2> and sulphur steel
[18:47:07] <andypugh> In fact you can’t technically get it in the UK, as it is a wartme standard twice superceeded
[18:47:12] <zeeshan|2> basically adding stuff
[18:47:25] <zeeshan|2> so you get intermetallic compounds forming for fracture
[18:47:34] <Tom_itx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades
[18:47:39] <zeeshan|2> i havve never bought any
[18:47:47] <andypugh> http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/engineeringsteel/EN1A.html
[18:47:48] <zeeshan|2> but this guy wants specifically free machining steel for some reason
[18:47:48] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:48:43] <zeeshan|2> okay very similar to 1117
[18:48:48] <zeeshan|2> vut more sulphur in en1a
[18:48:50] <zeeshan|2> *but
[18:48:56] <Sync_> as long as you don't get s235 chewing gum steel you should be fine
[18:49:23] <zeeshan|2> whats that Sync_
[18:49:35] <andypugh> The equivalent named there is 1113 or 1213 http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/engineeringsteel/AISI-1213.html
[18:49:41] <Tom_itx> cousin to u235 :)
[18:50:45] <Sync_> 1.0038 zeeshan|2
[18:51:56] <Sync_> basically a structural steel
[18:52:07] <Sync_> which is the worst they can get out of the melt
[18:52:12] <Sync_> so you have soft spots
[18:52:24] <Sync_> and then spots that might go to 45-50HRC in a piece
[18:55:31] <zeeshan|2> haha nice
[18:56:52] <Tom_itx> i've had bars with hard spots that took out all the tooing before
[18:57:25] <Tom_itx> and some with what i call 'splinters' where the bar flakes off
[18:58:07] <Sync_> yeah
[18:58:15] <Sync_> it is cheap tho
[18:58:31] <zeeshan|2> Fuck i really need a brake for my vfd
[18:58:45] <zeeshan|2> it'd really help to make these 40 tapped holes
[18:58:48] <zeeshan|2> blind.
[18:59:06] <Sync_> too much inertia for the dc link?
[18:59:10] <zeeshan|2> yea man
[18:59:21] <zeeshan|2> on some holes it overshoots by .125"
[18:59:28] <zeeshan|2> when tapping at 300 rpm
[18:59:36] <Sync_> tried the dc brake?
[18:59:42] <zeeshan|2> yea its activated
[18:59:44] <zeeshan|2> its in vector mode
[18:59:59] <Sync_> hmm
[19:00:06] <zeeshan|2> i had to change decel time to like 5 sec
[19:00:09] <Sync_> 0o
[19:00:11] <Sync_> the fuck
[19:00:20] <zeeshan|2> otherwise it overcurrents the vfd
[19:00:29] <zeeshan|2> when stopping at say 3000 rpm
[19:00:35] <zeeshan|2> wait i just thought of something
[19:00:37] <Tom_itx> get a brake
[19:00:55] <zeeshan|2> if i can reset the decel time everytime g33.1 is called
[19:01:01] <Sync_> get a vfd with more powah or a brake resistor
[19:01:03] <zeeshan|2> down to 1 sec (where the vfd doesnt overcurrent)
[19:01:11] <zeeshan|2> it will be fine
[19:01:18] <zeeshan|2> and then resets it back to 5 seconds after g33.1 exits
[19:01:21] <zeeshan|2> Hmmm
[19:01:25] <Sync_> or servo drive the spindle
[19:01:36] <zeeshan|2> dont be silly :P
[19:02:04] <Sync_> that way you can even tap to the bottom
[19:02:16] <Sync_> by looking at the motor torque
[19:03:43] <Sync_> I wonder why the magnetic disc clutches are so expensive, there is no good reason for it
[19:04:15] <PetefromTn_> I almost NEVER bottom tap rigid tapping even on brand new machines not worth the risk I usually just finish by hand while the next one is running...
[19:04:50] <Tom_itx> you have no faith
[19:04:52] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: thats why you cost so much
[19:04:53] <zeeshan|2> !
[19:05:03] <zeeshan|2> and rigid tapping a bottom hole was very common in a production env for me
[19:05:11] <zeeshan|2> but they had fanuc redcaps for spindle drive
[19:05:12] <PetefromTn_> how would you know how much I cost?
[19:05:24] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: easy
[19:05:28] <zeeshan|2> $11111110000000000000000000000000000
[19:05:30] <zeeshan|2> cause of your looks
[19:05:33] <zeeshan|2> you told us
[19:05:47] <PetefromTn_> OK whatever...
[19:05:59] <zeeshan|2> i dont understand
[19:06:05] <zeeshan|2> why you'd buy a brand new machine
[19:06:10] <zeeshan|2> that you couldn't trust rigid tapping a blind hole w?
[19:06:12] <zeeshan|2> with?
[19:06:14] <PetefromTn_> if I had a production machine setup for making thousands of the same part maybe I would do it then
[19:06:15] <zeeshan|2> that makes no sense at all.
[19:06:16] <Tom_itx> you got a vmc you must be $$$$
[19:06:37] <zeeshan|2> especially when you got 40 tapped holes
[19:06:42] <Tom_itx> run a test part and measure the thread depth
[19:06:42] <PetefromTn_> but for the numbers of parts I make and I am sure that you make it is not worth the trouble
[19:06:51] <Tom_itx> they will repeat
[19:06:52] <zeeshan|2> oh its definitely worth the trouble for me
[19:06:54] <zeeshan|2> talk about yourself
[19:06:59] <zeeshan|2> i don't do things stupidly
[19:07:01] <zeeshan|2> i do em smartly
[19:07:09] <zeeshan|2> i have better things to do than tap 40 holes by hand
[19:07:11] <PetefromTn_> have fun
[19:07:38] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: exactly
[19:07:42] <zeeshan|2> that's the smart way of doing it
[19:08:02] <zeeshan|2> but the problem is on my machine it's not consistent
[19:08:11] <PetefromTn_> you sure are an arrogant fuck
[19:08:12] <zeeshan|2> sometimes its 0.1 deviation
[19:08:12] <Sync_> I was gonna say, if you have the machine to do it, why not
[19:08:15] <Tom_itx> until i'm sure how my cam handles rigid tapping i will check the threads. once i do i will trust it much more
[19:08:16] <zeeshan|2> sometimes its .25"
[19:08:30] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: woke up on the wrong side of the bed today?
[19:08:53] <Tom_itx> and here i wasn't planning to pick on him tonight..
[19:09:30] <zeeshan|2> i think to really trust it for a blind hole, i think im gonna setup an indicator
[19:09:31] <zeeshan|2> and see
[19:09:57] <Tom_itx> the gcode will repeat the depth consistently once you get the first one right
[19:10:11] <zeeshan|2> im not worried about the g-code
[19:10:18] <Tom_itx> if you're worried about hole cleanout, go back in again
[19:10:19] <zeeshan|2> like when you try to g33.1
[19:10:26] <andypugh> You want this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bergmaster-Turret-Drilling-Tapping-Machine-/131568930465?hash=item1ea21e8ea1 Except the bidding has gone a little crazy
[19:10:27] <zeeshan|2> and your spindle doesnt stop fast enough
[19:10:38] <zeeshan|2> it overshoots quite a bit
[19:10:51] <zeeshan|2> haha andypugh
[19:11:02] <Tom_itx> andypugh, that thing looks older than you
[19:11:07] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: why that over a real clutch type tapping head?
[19:11:20] <andypugh> It drills and auto-indexes
[19:11:34] <andypugh> For what it is for ot looks pretty slick
[19:11:41] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:11:47] <Tom_itx> multi 2nd ops
[19:17:38] <Tom_itx> andypugh, those screw stops at the top are probably for the index triggers?
[19:17:51] <Tom_itx> settable depths
[19:18:00] <andypugh> I haven’t looked all that carefully, but it sounds right
[19:18:55] <Tom_itx> missing the drive belt
[19:20:15] <Tom_itx> that looks like a flexdrive going to the head
[19:20:37] <Tom_itx> maybe not
[19:21:12] <Tom_itx> next pic shows the belt... 2 different settings
[19:23:43] <zeeshan|2> what do you guys think of degree min s
[19:23:45] <zeeshan|2> ec
[19:25:08] <Sync_> as long as it is not neugrad, everything is ok
[19:25:40] <zeeshan|2> :)
[19:25:51] <zeeshan|2> i have a hard time visually degree min s
[19:26:49] <zeeshan|2> like okay if someone says the tolerance is 10 minutes
[19:27:09] <zeeshan|2> thats the same thing is as .1667 degrees i think
[19:27:22] <Sync_> you gotta get a feel for it
[19:27:29] <zeeshan|2> any suggestions on how to train?
[19:27:38] <zeeshan|2> i see a lot of eng use the units
[19:27:59] <zeeshan|2> pick arbritary values and convert em to degrees to get a feel?
[19:29:18] <Sync_> nah, just convert until fluent
[19:29:32] <Sync_> I also have issues imagining .1blah degrees
[19:30:24] <zeeshan|2> fore degrees to visualize i usually keep a protractor on the desk
[19:30:39] <zeeshan|2> minutes is where it gets a bit weird
[19:30:55] <zeeshan|2> cause you gotta divide between each degree tick mark by 60
[19:31:05] <andypugh> 1 minute == 1nm
[19:31:08] <zeeshan|2> and that area is so small
[19:31:15] <zeeshan|2> its hard to visualize 60 divisions..
[19:31:33] <zeeshan|2> and then you divide each one of those by another 60
[19:31:35] <zeeshan|2> to get seconds..
[19:31:39] <zeeshan|2> which is just beyond me
[19:32:04] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: damn that is small
[19:32:28] <andypugh> Depends what I meant :-)
[19:32:53] <andypugh> 1 minute at the surface of the earth is 1 nautical mile
[20:33:46] <bobo_> andypugh: that Bergmaster is like the one i have. they are quite usefull not only for tapping but also for countersinking . + just fun to watch all the crap moving
[20:34:43] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: you must be arrogant for trying to tap with that machine!
[20:34:56] <zeeshan|2> when you can tap by hand ;p
[20:38:42] <bobo_> be nice to that Tenn-un , with all the globel warming he could move way north ,and bring along the cat hating dog
[20:39:20] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:40:14] <malcom2073> zeeshan|2: Start using FFF units when someone comes in with degrees
[20:40:26] <zeeshan|2> fff?
[20:41:27] <malcom2073> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system
[20:42:17] <just_pink> hi
[20:42:37] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[20:42:44] <just_pink> I'm just finish to machine the ends of the T-slot beams
[20:45:00] <mutley> flex3drive on that ol thing lol
[20:48:43] <mutley> Tom_itx: sshould have gone to specsavers
[21:13:33] <PetefromTn_> just_pink what are you making with the extrusion?
[21:18:43] <just_pink> support for the din rails
[21:18:59] <PetefromTn_> oh in your electronics enclosure
[21:19:15] <just_pink> yes
[21:19:32] <PetefromTn_> nice
[21:20:01] <just_pink> so i be able to move them without re drilling
[21:20:18] <PetefromTn_> what extrusion is it?
[21:20:29] <just_pink> 80 20
[21:20:52] <just_pink> single side T slot
[21:20:53] <PetefromTn_> thats not a bad idea it can be structural and make the adjustments as you say
[21:21:33] <just_pink> yes.. this is the whole idea
[21:21:34] <PetefromTn_> my Cincinatti is the first time I worked with Din rails and I am now a believer they sure make things easier and look more professional overall
[21:21:56] <PetefromTn_> I also like the wire chases my machine came with that have covers to keep all the wires in check.
[21:22:21] <just_pink> use wire duct
[21:22:51] <PetefromTn_> im not sure what they are called but the machine came with them all around the inside of the elctronics enclosure
[21:22:54] <PetefromTn_> they sure came in handy
[21:23:42] <just_pink> why do you want to change the panel?
[21:23:53] <PetefromTn_> I don't
[21:24:12] <just_pink> ho..
[21:24:13] <PetefromTn_> I am just saying that both the din rails and the wire chases are very nice and make things easier
[21:24:15] <just_pink> ok
[21:24:41] <just_pink> I'm really like them..
[21:25:10] <LatheBuilder> good evening
[21:25:20] <just_pink> hope to finish with th stack light soon
[21:25:25] <just_pink> and mount it..
[21:25:35] <just_pink> and start to work on the hmi
[21:26:13] <PetefromTn_> hey lathebuilder
[21:26:24] <PetefromTn_> hmi?
[21:26:32] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: do you have a stack light on your machine?
[21:26:47] <LatheBuilder> Hi PetefromTn_
[21:27:01] <PetefromTn_> no not sure what a stack light is really LOL
[21:27:09] <just_pink> little screen theat show temps and monitor stuff
[21:27:28] <just_pink> the traffic light on the top of the machine..
[21:27:34] <LatheBuilder> anyone know if it is possible to add ramping to the jog functions? change them from step functions to smooth accels
[21:28:08] <PetefromTn_> oh no my machine does not have the traffic light but the HAAS machines I have run an awful lot have them and it is nice to be able to see the machine is faulted or finished from a distance
[21:28:51] <PetefromTn_> there is continuous jog and incremental jog
[21:28:51] <LatheBuilder> stack lights are nice for unattended run
[21:29:05] <just_pink> I'm always forgot it..
[21:30:01] <LatheBuilder> the continuous jog is what's getting me...trying out the incremental for tuning purposes. brb
[21:30:04] <PetefromTn_> I think if I ever get to a point where I have a lot of production parts of my own design or a customers I would probably look into doing something like that or at least add a simple speaker for audible alerts somehow
[21:30:46] <just_pink> I think it alsow look cool on the machine.
[21:31:00] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:31:04] <just_pink> it has a buzzer and the controller support midi
[21:32:15] <LatheBuilder> could probably have lcnc send you an email. lot of phone carriers have email to txt no extra charge.
[21:32:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think I heard someone here actually does just that
[21:33:30] <just_pink> LatheBuilder: web based cnc control.. - huge security hole
[21:34:14] <just_pink> maybe scade
[21:35:51] <LatheBuilder> I am simply suggesting using functionality that is already baked in. I don't need it for mine, but I bet LCNC can run a shell script. Sending a simple email in linux via shell script is trivial...
[21:37:40] <just_pink> basiccly the stack light controller can send the signals to a GSM modem.
[21:38:34] <LatheBuilder> jthornton JT-Shop I am using your tuning tutorial. Thanks for putting them up
[21:39:49] <LatheBuilder> jthornton JT-Shop what machine did your ferror plots come from? Something with large inertia?
[21:43:22] <PetefromTn_> just_pink I am curious as to your goals and ideas for what you intend to make with this machine when you finish it. It is obvious you have put a lot of thought and work into the design
[21:46:11] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: I consider the machine as a nice and sturdy platform.
[21:52:27] <PetefromTn_> I was just wondering what you plan to make with it I was not questioning the merits of the machine whatsoever.
[21:53:41] <just_pink> just convert it to a cnc..
[21:53:59] <just_pink> but thr right way, not the junk way
[21:54:04] <just_pink> the*
[21:55:09] <PetefromTn_> so you are saying the conversion is sort of a project in and of itself.... that is fine and I am sure a lot of folks feel that way. I just wondered if you had plans for parts you intend to make with it once it is completed
[21:56:03] <just_pink> hoo .. i see what you mean..
[21:58:01] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: I don't have specific items or stuff to make, just want the ability to make stuff and keep me nails from hard work:)
[21:59:49] <PetefromTn_> LOL sounds good to me
[21:59:51] <zeeshan|2> man garbage import 123 blocks
[21:59:56] <zeeshan|2> just fucking garbage
[22:00:03] <zeeshan|2> first time im trying to bolt them together
[22:00:09] <zeeshan|2> the 3/8 bolt doesnt even go through the thru holes
[22:00:21] <zeeshan|2> i shoulda known better
[22:00:37] <zeeshan|2> they are rock hard so i cant even drill em
[22:02:07] <LatheBuilder> metric holes, inch outside dimensions?
[22:02:16] <zeeshan|2> no
[22:02:23] <zeeshan|2> it has 3/8 16 threaded holes
[22:02:26] <zeeshan|2> they work
[22:02:48] <zeeshan|2> but the thru holes arent clearanced for a 3/8 bolt
[22:03:17] <LatheBuilder> bummer
[22:03:38] <zeeshan|2> apparently all import123 blocks are like this
[22:03:41] <zeeshan|2> i just googled the issue
[22:03:41] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:11:24] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, the holes 6mm?
[22:11:35] <zeeshan|2> didnt meant tom
[22:11:39] <zeeshan|2> got annoyed and ccame upstairs
[22:11:39] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:27:09] <zeeshan|2> meant measure
[22:27:10] <zeeshan|2> whoops
[22:53:30] <just_pink> fly cutter + PCB = dust
[22:53:55] <just_pink> but work pretty good
[22:54:27] <PetefromTn_> what kind of flycutter do you use?
[22:55:09] <just_pink> the cheap one from grizzly
[22:55:11] <just_pink> hss
[22:55:22] <PetefromTn_> OK
[22:55:35] <PetefromTn_> why do you need to flycut a pcb I have never machined one
[22:56:45] <just_pink> I took 0.3 mm fom it
[22:57:11] <just_pink> one sec I will send a pic
[23:01:32] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: http://i.imgur.com/foQX1pb.jpg
[23:01:56] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: measured it
[23:01:58] <just_pink> tons of oil...
[23:01:58] <zeeshan|2> .35"
[23:02:07] <zeeshan|2> ~ 9mm
[23:03:02] <PetefromTn_> nice...
[23:04:43] <just_pink> yes, it was on dubble sided tape.. so it's not the best in acuracy all the way..
[23:05:04] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: you always say you dont wanna do a junk c onversion
[23:05:07] <zeeshan|2> but you use junk tools!!!!!!!!
[23:05:12] <zeeshan|2> !!!!!!!
[23:05:14] <zeeshan|2> jk
[23:06:27] <PetefromTn_> just_pink I have done a lot of parts stuck down with double sided tape
[23:06:39] <PetefromTn_> it can be sometimes hit or miss in my experience
[23:06:40] <just_pink> but they work fine for me.. and I get them the same day with the machine.. so to replase all of them even if they almost new?
[23:08:00] <just_pink> I don't care much about it, It was an expirament.. you know hss + fiber glass...
[23:08:03] <PetefromTn_> did you skim cut the board before you stuck down the tape?
[23:08:56] <just_pink> no..
[23:09:55] <PetefromTn_> when I use the double sided tape I usually clamp down a piece of scrap MDF and then I skim cut the top of the board lightly ensuring I get a complete cut across the area I plan to put the tape and that usually works for most things
[23:09:56] <just_pink> bottom to top: vise - 123 blocks - wood - tape - pcp - cutter
[23:10:32] <just_pink> you mean to skim the wood!
[23:10:43] <just_pink> this is nice!
[23:10:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah just to ensure it is perfectly flat to the spindle
[23:10:55] <PetefromTn_> then stick down the tape
[23:11:19] <PetefromTn_> and then put down your workpiece and other than the varying thickness of the tape you should be pretty close
[23:11:32] <just_pink> i didn't do it.. but i have 29 more PCBs :)
[23:11:39] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[23:11:59] <just_pink> I'm go to clean the total mess
[23:12:35] <just_pink> oil everywhere
[23:12:39] <PetefromTn_> yeah skim cutting the MDF is messy too... I usually try to cover the table before I do that but it still goes everywhere
[23:15:33] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: can you try something for me?
[23:15:39] <zeeshan|2> see if you can put a 3/8 bolt through your 123 block
[23:18:53] <just_pink> 3/8 bolt?
[23:19:03] <LatheBuilder> zeeshan|2 just tested mine. Enco import 123 block, bolt threads all the way through
[23:19:14] <zeeshan|2> lathe not the threaded portion
[23:19:26] <zeeshan|2> http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s448/AlfaGTA105/FP3NC%20Rebuild/DSC00262-1.jpg
[23:19:29] <zeeshan|2> like that LatheBuilder
[23:19:40] <zeeshan|2> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6529546333_d7ab3dabe3.jpg
[23:19:42] <zeeshan|2> another pic
[23:19:51] <zeeshan|2> notice hoe the bolt goes through
[23:19:53] <just_pink> i have some holes with threads on the blocks, the the clamping kit wirk with them just fine.
[23:19:54] <zeeshan|2> *how
[23:20:03] <zeeshan|2> the threaded ones work fine
[23:20:08] <zeeshan|2> but the thru holes dont work
[23:20:11] <zeeshan|2> so you cant bolt them together
[23:20:15] <just_pink> but i have no i dea how to take the pcb out from the tape
[23:20:25] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: alcohol
[23:20:29] <zeeshan|2> it'll disolve the glue
[23:20:48] <zeeshan|2> lathebuilder can you do that?
[23:20:50] <LatheBuilder> same here. looks like the through holes are close to tap drill dia for 3/8-16
[23:20:56] <zeeshan|2> fak
[23:21:02] <just_pink> i thing i need to macin the whole wood from tthe other side..
[23:21:04] <zeeshan|2> i really wanna order a cheap set
[23:21:08] <zeeshan|2> that have the thru holes working
[23:21:36] <zeeshan|2> a good set is like 120$
[23:21:41] <zeeshan|2> thats too much for a block lol
[23:21:43] <LatheBuilder> 5/16 bolts won't do ya?
[23:21:52] <zeeshan|2> LatheBuilder: im trying to bolt them to my table
[23:22:00] <LatheBuilder> got it
[23:22:01] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: gve ne few moment i will clean them and try
[23:22:04] <zeeshan|2> t-nut -- stud through 123 block
[23:22:07] <zeeshan|2> and then through a flange
[23:22:10] <zeeshan|2> then nut
[23:22:20] <just_pink> now it's super oily
[23:22:30] <zeeshan|2> i dont have any 5/16 t-nuts
[23:22:51] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: thank you
[23:27:04] <furrywolf> so, I got a new subaru. the alternator was putting out 18V, so I put in a spare one. two days later... it's putting out 17V. I can not find anything wrong with the wiring. the sense terminal on the alternator is getting an accurate voltage. What would make two alternators fail in a row with shorted regulators?
[23:27:25] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: on the gm alternators
[23:27:35] <zeeshan|2> if you dont have a gauge light connected through the charging circuit
[23:27:42] <zeeshan|2> which adds 270 ohms or something like that
[23:27:47] <zeeshan|2> it'll cause the aalternator to overcharge
[23:28:51] <furrywolf> it's a subaru, and the gauge light circuit is tested and working. ground it, light comes on. the warning light is currently about 1/3rd brightness and a little flickery, just like when the last alternator failed.
[23:29:08] <zeeshan|2> car specs?
[23:29:25] <furrywolf> ?
[23:29:53] <zeeshan|2> subaru doesn't tell me what car it is
[23:30:30] <furrywolf> '84 GL wagon EA81 1.8L 4wd blue interior silver exterior. :P
[23:30:34] <just_pink> zeeshan|2:
[23:30:53] <just_pink> I'm here with 123 block ang 3/8 16 tap
[23:31:00] <just_pink> and*
[23:31:17] <zeeshan|2> anddd? :D
[23:31:23] <furrywolf> the alternator has a main battery stud, a sense input (which tees off the main battery wire in the harness near the fusible links), and the light circuit.
[23:31:42] <furrywolf> I can not find any wiring defects. about 200mv drop if I rev it up, which seems normal.
[23:31:44] <zeeshan|2> how many wires coming out of the alternator plug
[23:31:45] <just_pink> work
[23:31:47] <zeeshan|2> not the power side
[23:31:49] <zeeshan|2> the main connector
[23:31:51] <zeeshan|2> 3?
[23:32:02] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: pics??!!?
[23:32:05] <furrywolf> ... it has a main battery stud, a sense input, and a light circuit. :P
[23:32:07] <furrywolf> one stud, one 2-pin connector.
[23:32:25] <just_pink> one sec i will tac pic
[23:34:13] <furrywolf> I poked at the wiring taking various measurements for a half hour and couldn't find anything seriously wrong. the resistance between the fusible link block and the battery is a bit high, but that should just result in slow charging.
[23:35:10] <furrywolf> note that subaru alternators function just fine if the battery is removed from a running vehicle, so I really don't think that little bit of resistance is an issue. I'm not even sure it's more resistance than stock, as this is the first time I've measured it.
[23:37:29] <zeeshan|2> that is a pretty big generalization :P
[23:37:40] <furrywolf> which?
[23:38:07] <zeeshan|2> removing the battery from a running car
[23:38:09] <zeeshan|2> and alternator runs
[23:38:15] <zeeshan|2> that is a good way to blow it up
[23:38:22] <furrywolf> heh, some cars fail badly when you do that.
[23:38:33] <zeeshan|2> i think its fine for short periods
[23:38:34] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/QNnQmmB.png
[23:38:36] <zeeshan|2> to check if alternator is charging
[23:38:39] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: ^
[23:38:54] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: nooooooooooo
[23:38:57] <furrywolf> I measured 0.65V between the alternator stud and the battery positive when I revved up the engine. that's more than I'd like to see, but I don't think it's the cause of failing alternators.
[23:39:01] <zeeshan|2> you're supposed to put it through the non threaded holes
[23:39:20] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i cant find a manual for this car
[23:39:28] <zeeshan|2> but internet says the white wire goes to the gauge cluster
[23:39:31] <zeeshan|2> bulb and resistor
[23:39:32] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: what do you want to know about it?
[23:39:40] <furrywolf> internet is wrong. :P
[23:40:06] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: It is not fit through the non threaded holes
[23:40:20] <furrywolf> there's two whites to the alternators, a fat one and a thin one. the fat one is the output, the thin one is the sense. they're spliced in the harness where it connects to the fusible link, to cancel out voltage drop in the wiring.
[23:40:25] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: okay im glad im not the only one!! :P
[23:40:51] <furrywolf> the light circuit is a tiny white with a red stripe, which goes through a 5A fuse and then to the cluster.
[23:41:29] <just_pink> but it's look like the correct size for tapping tham..
[23:41:32] <zeeshan|2> can you put a 400 ohm resistor
[23:41:39] <zeeshan|2> in series with that white w/ red stripe wire
[23:41:42] <zeeshan|2> just for fun?
[23:41:45] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:42:09] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: hehe
[23:42:17] <furrywolf> I popped out the fuse and, other than the warning lights going out, absolutely no change in operation.
[23:42:29] <zeeshan|2> im suprised we all dont have 123 blocks that aren't fully functional
[23:42:29] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:42:36] <zeeshan|2> all being me you and lathebuilder
[23:42:37] <just_pink> zeeshan|2: or just drill it
[23:42:41] <furrywolf> the regulator seems to be fried. I'm trying to figure out WHY two of them fried.
[23:42:44] <zeeshan|2> just_pink you cant drill it
[23:42:46] <zeeshan|2> its rock hard!!
[23:42:56] <just_pink> EDM it..
[23:42:57] * furrywolf has no 123 blocks
[23:43:05] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: cause you disconnected the battery
[23:43:05] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[23:43:18] <furrywolf> no, I didn't.
[23:43:25] <zeeshan|2> let me tell you my alternator escapades
[23:43:33] <just_pink> I'm working on my edm macine...
[23:43:40] <zeeshan|2> i went through 4 alternators in 2 days on my mitusbishi eclipse
[23:43:45] <zeeshan|2> 1 was factory
[23:43:54] <zeeshan|2> the other 3 was junkyard remans
[23:43:55] <zeeshan|2> er
[23:44:01] <zeeshan|2> 2 were junkyard ones
[23:44:04] <zeeshan|2> and 1 was reman
[23:44:07] <furrywolf> I put in this alternator two days (well, two days of working on the car... two weeks of clock time) ago, and it worked and regulated correctly then. yesterday, it's overcharging and the battery light is on again. just like the alternator I pulled out.
[23:44:18] <zeeshan|2> i looked and looked, couldnt find out what was wrong
[23:44:33] <zeeshan|2> all circuit was ok, only thing could be the charging wire from the ecu
[23:44:39] <zeeshan|2> said, f it, replaced ecu,
[23:44:40] <zeeshan|2> didnt help
[23:44:44] <just_pink> what kind of steel is that?
[23:44:52] <zeeshan|2> got a brand new alternator tried it
[23:44:54] <zeeshan|2> problem solved
[23:44:54] <furrywolf> no ecu in this car at all. :P
[23:45:09] <zeeshan|2> was a really frustrating time
[23:45:26] <zeeshan|2> just_pink: i think its just high carbon steel that has been hardened and grinded to make the 123 block
[23:45:30] <furrywolf> the alternator I put in was one I myself removed from a working car. I doubt its voltage regulator coincidentally decided to short at the same time it got put in another vehicle.
[23:45:36] <zeeshan|2> if you try to use a file on it
[23:45:39] <zeeshan|2> the file doesnt scratch it
[23:46:16] <zeeshan|2> furry did you monitor the voltage
[23:46:19] <zeeshan|2> on first startup?
[23:46:37] <furrywolf> yes. 14.2 on the dot, any engine rpm.
[23:46:50] <zeeshan|2> that is so weird
[23:46:53] <zeeshan|2> so it wasn't being strained
[23:47:07] <furrywolf> it might have been being strained, but that shouldn't damage it.
[23:47:16] <zeeshan|2> the voltage owuld be lower though
[23:47:18] <zeeshan|2> if it was
[23:47:20] <zeeshan|2> around 13.8
[23:47:32] <just_pink> the pcb it out of the woooood!!!!!!!!!!
[23:47:41] <zeeshan|2> howd you do it
[23:47:50] <just_pink> heat
[23:48:34] <furrywolf> I've strained subaru alternators quite a bit... in my other cars, I've done things like stuff an oil bottle on the gas pedal to hold the engine at 3k rpm, then use it to jump start diesel trucks with completely flat batteries, while they're cranking, dragging my battery down to 10V too... :P
[23:49:59] <furrywolf> this is an unusual failure. I've never seen a voltage regulator fail on a subaru alternator, and now I have two...
[23:50:24] <furrywolf> I've seen a bad diode once, and I've seen bad slip rings plenty of times...
[23:50:51] <furrywolf> if you let the alt sit in the rain, the brushes stick. :)
[23:51:10] <just_pink> there is hobby cnc meeting?
[23:51:31] <furrywolf> of particular note, the wiring harness is suspect in this car. very suspect. but I can't find anything wrong with the alternator circuit.
[23:52:06] <furrywolf> it has been repaired, by someone who was some combination of lazy, drunk, and color-blind.
[23:53:18] <furrywolf> I fixed the radiator fan by figuring out they got blue and blue w/ red swapped, and had the fan circuit running to the electric choke, the electric choke running to the a/c fan, and the radiator fan going to an unused plug. :P
[23:55:32] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: so... any ideas on what would fry an internal voltage regulator?
[23:57:11] <just_pink> i lost my googone