#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-31

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[00:48:05] <just_pink> DONE
[04:21:42] <bz> i need newb machinist advice
[04:22:42] <bz> so i need to drill set screw holes for a motor shaft i've just made
[04:22:55] <bz> how do i center the drill?
[04:26:34] <archivist> number of ways, if you have good machine and stubby drills you can get the centre line by measurement and know it will not wander
[04:26:53] <bz> have a good machine and long drills
[04:27:00] <bz> rather long drill bit, i mean
[04:27:11] <archivist> long bits bend
[04:27:37] <bz> so use a couple rounds of pilot holes first?
[04:28:05] <archivist> there are centre finding devices to scribe on a shaft so you can punch it
[04:29:33] <archivist> or use a centre drill to mark it for the pilot/main
[04:32:15] <fenn> if you mill a flat first and center punch the flat it won't wander
[04:32:40] <bz> wandering is only my second concern, though. my first issue is locating exact center
[04:33:03] <bz> i've done this already on a bridgeport, but the set screw holes came out just off to the side of the motor shaft
[04:33:21] <bz> and this is after i measured it with a running end mill
[04:33:28] <fenn> use edge finder and move over by the radius of the shaft plus the radius of the edge finder
[04:34:14] <fenn> are you drilling along the axis of the shaft or perpendicular to the axis?
[04:34:28] <bz> perpendicular
[04:34:47] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-ROUND-BAR-CENTRE-FINDER-/290817748060
[04:35:15] <fenn> that seems pretty imprecise
[04:35:41] <bz> could you elaborate?
[04:35:43] <archivist> there are variation on the theme, some better
[04:35:55] <bz> oh wow, those exist
[04:35:57] <fenn> lol look at the stamping of the fiducial line http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMzkw/$(KGrHqRHJCYFCkDC0E1yBQq6RF)ff!~~60_57.JPG
[04:36:50] <fenn> bz: do you know how to use an edge finder?
[04:37:10] <bz> so maybe the problem was drilling pilots without using a center drill, not my method of calculating center
[04:37:15] <bz> fenn: i don't think we have one
[04:37:33] <bz> hm
[04:37:45] <bz> checking now
[04:37:46] <archivist> centre drill is the ultimate stubby drill
[04:38:36] <bz> fenn: but i used an end mill in the same capacity as an edgefinder, though
[04:38:43] <fenn> measuring with an endmill ought to be good enough for set screws
[04:39:26] <bz> just found an edgefinder, meh
[04:39:31] <archivist> then the real problem was probably drill wandering if you missed the centre drill stage
[04:39:48] <bz> yeah i'm gonna try again now with center drilling first
[04:59:02] <XXCoder> boo
[04:59:26] * archivist jumps out of his skin
[04:59:43] * XXCoder grabs skin and go leatherface
[05:03:24] <XXCoder> whats up archivist
[05:05:06] <archivist> I worked out the pins for my fleabay probe
[05:05:49] <XXCoder> nice
[05:06:08] <XXCoder> now build me a cmm ;)
[05:06:23] <XXCoder> whats your plan with it?
[05:07:07] <archivist> got it to discover how it works, now I may try to use it http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=probe+2015
[05:08:30] <archivist> need to make an interface though, it does not used contacts like many touch probes but uses linear measuring transformers (LVDT)
[05:09:07] <archivist> so it measures the probe deflection xyz
[05:09:35] <XXCoder> definiyely cool
[05:09:55] <archivist> but huge for a small machine
[05:12:16] <XXCoder> interesting
[05:15:08] <archivist> trouble is the correct chips for the job cost a packet, a lot more than the probe did
[05:18:24] <XXCoder> hmm
[05:18:32] <XXCoder> it has serial port, cant hack it?
[05:23:46] <archivist> chips are up to £60 each
[05:24:00] <archivist> that is just the analogue part
[05:24:05] <XXCoder> dang!!
[05:24:11] <XXCoder> how many needed?
[05:24:16] <archivist> 3
[05:24:17] <XXCoder> no chinese ripoffs?
[05:24:26] <archivist> not seen any
[05:25:06] <archivist> but the cheapest option I have seen is a texas dsp chip
[05:26:20] <archivist> found an appnote and the code, but can it do three channels rather than one, and cost of programmer etc
[05:30:34] <XXCoder> yeah hopefully you cn get it to work
[05:40:24] <Deejay> moin
[05:41:01] <XXCoder> hey
[06:27:34] <trentster> Hey all
[06:28:42] <archivist> hay one
[06:29:33] <trentster> Is there any reason for small spindle cnc routers when sourcing high quality linear rail + blocks for Z axis to need anything wider than 15mm ?
[06:29:56] <trentster> I am looking at the weight rating and capacity for the linear stuff and its pretty high.
[06:31:08] <trentster> Is the main reason because of your Spindle and plate is very heavy you want something bigger that has pre loaded blocks to stop your axis sliding down the ballscrew when power to steppers is stopped?
[06:31:25] <trentster> Yo Archivist hows work today?
[06:31:57] <archivist> I was looking at some curved looking rails at a show, sales droid said the rails rely on the frame for straightness
[06:32:10] <archivist> no work today
[06:32:55] <SpeedEvil> trentster: larger size tends to mean stiffer
[06:32:57] <trentster> The reason I ask is my Schneebergers arrived today - incredible quality and rigidity and smooth movement, but I must say having them in front of me they do seem rather tiny ;-)
[06:33:14] <SpeedEvil> trentster: you rarely directly care about the absolute load maximum
[06:33:52] <trentster> yeah - so in hindsight I am wondering if these are suitable for My Z, what do you guys think?
[06:34:25] <trentster> https://www.schneeberger.com/en/products/linear-bearing-and-profiled-guideways/profiled-miniature-guideway/minirail-mini-x/
[06:34:25] <archivist> aboy 15mm on my 5 axis, good enough for me
[06:34:30] <archivist> about
[06:34:38] <trentster> in my case its actually 14mm
[06:35:15] <archivist> you have a lighter z than me anyway
[06:35:34] <trentster> archivist: yup
[06:35:44] <fenn> smaller spindles can have lower runout and higher rpm
[06:35:57] <archivist> spacing v travel is the question
[06:36:19] <fenn> but that's probably not an issue unless you are doing PCB engraving
[06:37:36] <trentster> I was kinda suprised to see the 4 tapped screw holes on each block is only M3 which is like toy hobby size
[06:40:20] <archivist> often designed with compression in mind
[06:40:38] <trentster> archivist: not with you?
[06:40:47] <trentster> what you mean compression in mind?
[06:41:20] <archivist> I mean the carriage is not being lifted from the rail
[06:41:36] <trentster> aah right
[06:41:48] <archivist> so the screw has less work to do
[06:42:20] <archivist> I used ht cap head screws on mine
[06:43:43] <trentster> archivist yeah going to bolt shop tomorrow need to buy a few boxes of the small size Metric screws
[06:44:19] <trentster> its always amazed me how it cheaper to buy by the box than by 1/4 of the quantity loose.
[06:44:44] <trentster> I was looking at this design today - pretty interesting - not run of the mill - excuse the pun :-)
[06:44:45] <trentster> http://www.embeddedtronics.com/cnc_gantry.html
[06:45:21] <fenn> iirc hardened bolts have less shear strength
[06:45:37] <fenn> also you probably want the bolts to deform rather than snap off
[06:48:35] <fenn> huh "the shear strength of a bolt is 62% of its tensile strength" so i dunno where i got that from
[06:50:32] <archivist> coupler failure on that page, common problem when the alignment is off a bit
[06:51:33] <fenn> why do they make couplers out of aluminum which has zero fatigue limit
[06:52:14] <archivist> and why such a laterally stiff design
[06:52:46] <archivist> use the oldham or bellows designs
[06:53:00] <archivist> both allow more error
[06:53:09] <fenn> the shape seems fine to me
[06:53:09] <malcom2073> But are more expensive
[06:53:57] <archivist> I have had failures too, the extra money is worth it :)
[06:54:44] <archivist> I made my own oldham style, had to replace
[06:54:56] <fenn> why?
[06:55:04] <fenn> what went wrong
[06:55:34] <archivist> grinding noises due to the gap filler crushing
[06:55:39] <malcom2073> I thought about making my own oldham, doesn't seem that complicated to mill the pieces... but I figure there are probably some gotchas in the designs
[06:56:00] <fenn> it's technically an involute right?
[06:56:07] <archivist> no flat
[06:58:31] <fenn> why dont they make the couplers out of nylon
[06:58:31] <archivist> I screwed a bellows coupling with too much friction in the slide and high torque from the stepper
[06:59:13] <archivist> the "spider" in an oldham is a nylon ish plastic
[06:59:26] <fenn> the helical beam ones.. a material with high toughness and some flexibility
[07:00:16] <fenn> actually toughness doesn't matter, it's ... elasticity?
[07:00:53] <archivist> toughness is the ability to withstand elastic strain
[07:01:08] <archivist> all of the above :)
[07:04:55] <fenn> some steels can flex indefinitely below the elastic limit and never suffer fatigue failure... what's this called?
[07:05:44] <archivist> luck
[07:06:11] <fenn> apparently titanium does it too
[07:06:25] <archivist> I am inclined to say that is wishful thinking
[07:06:27] <fenn> it seems unlikely that only these two metals possess this material property
[07:09:05] <archivist> trouble with so called fatigue free design is unknown crack starting mechanisms in a part
[07:10:08] <skunkworks_> 2X7i92 + 7i77 + 5i25 ran all night
[07:11:19] <archivist> I slept all night :)
[07:13:26] <skunkworks_> so did I :)
[07:26:28] <Tom_itx> no diaper duty?
[07:46:16] <lair82> CaptHindsight, I spoke too soon, my computer did the same thing again this morning, couldn't access anything, and everything on the desktop was gone,
[08:28:42] <skunkworks_> Tom_itx, no.. Shirley takes care of that at night - I am in charge of the 3yo...
[08:55:05] <SpeedEvil> 140 step slinky descent: https://youtu.be/9dinVcBEDhQ
[08:55:18] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of fatigue limit
[09:50:34] <lair82> membiblio, I guess all good things must come to an end, my machine that you helped me on this morning, did the same thing again,
[09:51:27] <lair82> Correction, helped me on a while back, did the same thing this morning
[09:51:51] <CaptHindsight> lair82: I don't remember which parts you swapped in that PC already. If it was the drive then I'd try swapping the MB next.
[09:52:08] <lair82> I have done the MB and SDD
[09:52:24] <lair82> I ran the memtest, it came back clean
[09:52:37] <lair82> Checked all connections, twice
[09:53:34] <lair82> The machine has ran every day, since I had the problems last time, and that has been at least 2 weeks, and all of a sudden, back again.
[09:53:56] <lair82> ssd, not sdd
[09:54:42] <lair82> I'm getting ADD with the way this machine has been running lately.
[09:55:52] <CaptHindsight> lair82: are you still using it for work or is it sitting isolated running 24/7? Intermittent problems are always the most fun.
[09:58:14] <lair82> No, the machine runs a ten hr shift 6 days a week, but the PC is never shut down, Linuxcnc is never shut down for that matter.
[10:00:20] <lair82> And the other two machines that are carbon copy builds, are left on for weeks/months at a time, and no issues with those machines. They are all networked together as well,
[10:01:06] <CaptHindsight> keep swapping parts until the problem goes away
[10:02:14] <CaptHindsight> one by one ... APU, DDR3, Power Supply
[10:04:00] <CaptHindsight> there are also logs to check like dmesg but you have to know what you are looking for...
[10:04:47] <membiblio> lair82 Hey What is it doing again?
[10:05:02] <membiblio> All files are missing right?
[10:05:08] <CaptHindsight> they might not have survived whatever is causing that PC to lose files
[10:05:21] <CaptHindsight> some files, we don't know how many
[10:05:45] <membiblio> lair82 - as I said previously - did you copy those files to another directory and are those files missing as well?
[10:06:04] <CaptHindsight> whatever is on his desktop is gone plus much of the home directory seems to be gone
[10:06:11] <CaptHindsight> don't know what else
[10:07:07] <membiblio> lair82 - did you try removing this machine from the network for a while?
[10:10:28] <lair82> Here is how it lays out, the operator will be running along, get done with part, unload it, load a new part, touch off on the part, go to load the program, and it show's no programs in the nc files folder, so I minimize the linuxcnc GUI, and most times the desktop is blank, the only thing there is the blackish/purple background, there are times when the icons will still be there, but if you try to click on one, they disappear anyway,
[10:10:59] <membiblio> lair82 - you did replace the hd - right?
[10:11:12] <lair82> the physical button, then I have to turn the switch off on the power supply, turn it back on, restart the pc then all is good
[10:11:26] <lair82> Yep, brand new ssd
[10:11:28] <membiblio> lair82 - oh... now we getting somewhere
[10:11:42] <membiblio> lair82 - where is your swap located?
[10:12:00] <lair82> And I ran for a few days unconnected from the network.
[10:12:14] <lair82> Swap?
[10:12:26] <lair82> The partition on the SSD/
[10:12:37] <membiblio> lair82 - well the fact that you power down and back up and all is find totally blows away the network intrusion issue - that is now OFF the table. Ok?
[10:12:53] <membiblio> lair82 - how much memory is in this machine?
[10:13:06] <lair82> 16Gb
[10:13:19] <lair82> Just what I had laying around
[10:13:35] <membiblio> lair82 - ok we make this machine MUCH less swapable - search on google for 'linux reduce swap'
[10:14:13] <membiblio> lair82 - linux reduce swappiness
[10:14:32] <membiblio> lair82 - sdd do not like to be written to like a hd, is bad for them
[10:14:48] <CaptHindsight> lair82: are the other 2-3 PC's setup with the EXACT same hardware and version of Linuxcnc?
[10:14:54] <membiblio> lair82 - so reduce swappiness first - so that is off the table to ok?
[10:15:08] <membiblio> too excuse me
[10:15:24] <lair82> Ok, will do
[10:15:43] <lair82> Yes the other machines are identical,
[10:16:04] <membiblio> lair82 - after that - do you know how to go into terminal with ctrl-alt-F1?
[10:16:14] <lair82> Yes
[10:16:37] <membiblio> lair82 - so next try restarting your gui - see if that fixes it like rebooting
[10:17:14] <membiblio> lair82 - I can bring up my machine at home - but I think you are running the 'other' os - which I can install so I can help more
[10:17:41] <membiblio> lair82 - which OS version of LinuxCNC are you using?
[10:17:49] <lair82> Ok, they are making chips on it right now, so it is going to have to wait, but I am writing this stuff down for when they are done
[10:18:02] <lair82> I am using Ubuntu 10.04
[10:18:19] <membiblio> Ok let me start the machine sitting right here and see which it is running
[10:21:26] <membiblio> mine is running the debian 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae - I will install the Ubuntu 10.04 like you have - that is what I would rather use anyway since I changed to Linux Mint for my primary desktop os
[10:22:41] <membiblio> lair82 - ya know - thinking about it - this DOES seem like a memory issue - that being said - lets discuss
[10:22:50] <skunkworks_> CaptHindsight, coming to the tormach open house?
[10:24:50] <membiblio> lair82 - Can you run the memory diagnostics from the os or are they pre-os?
[10:25:55] <membiblio> lair82 - on one of the consoles F1 or F2 or F3 I would like you to 'tail -f /var/log/kern.log' and on another dmesg.log or whatever is closest to those
[10:25:59] <lair82> I will have to look
[10:26:14] <membiblio> lair82 - and finally - you do know you can log in remotely to tail those files right?
[10:26:46] <membiblio> lair82 - via ssh
[10:27:08] <membiblio> lair82 - so you can watch them from your desktop or phone while the machine is running
[10:28:29] <membiblio> lair82 - help me - how did you dl the ubuntu version - I am on linuxcnc dl page and my eyes glaze over - where is ubuntu?
[10:28:37] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: when is it?
[10:29:35] <membiblio> Never mind - other dl options -
[10:29:49] <lair82> The linux 2.5 version is the ubuntu version,
[10:30:08] <membiblio> gotcha I will dl 10.04 with cnc 2.5 and install it
[10:30:46] <lair82> I have never messed with the ssh stuff, It would be handy though, when shortly I will have 5 machines all running Linuxcnc in our shop
[10:31:00] <membiblio> Hey guys did you know /docs/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf is not on the lcnc website? Link Broken
[10:32:15] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: tomorrow, nope :)
[10:34:28] <lair82> membiblio, do you think maybe it's the power supply? I was just wondering because I always have to turn the PS itself off then back on for everything to come back up and work properly.
[10:35:19] <membiblio> lair82 - Maybe but probably not - Since we are shotgunning this - try - it could be.
[10:36:00] <membiblio> lair82 - this does seem like a 'the os has lost sanity' issue - which could be caused by anything the os requires to run. CPU, memory, ps
[10:36:24] <lair82> Ok, I was just wondering
[10:36:40] <membiblio> lair82 - this is why I say to 'tail -f kern.log' and dmesg - because when the os has issues it writes messages to those logs
[10:37:24] <membiblio> tail -f will Follow those files last lines written to the console so you need one console per tail
[10:37:53] <membiblio> ctrl-alt-f1 is one console - tail one file there ctrl-alt-f2 is another - do another file there
[10:37:56] <lair82> I see, so I can do that from my pc in my office, and the operator will not even know I am fiddling around inside his machine?
[10:38:06] <membiblio> Yes that is correct.
[10:38:13] <membiblio> Is your office pc linux or win?
[10:39:08] <membiblio> So find the ip address of that machine, if dynamic go to console and type ifconfig and it will spit out assigned address
[10:39:32] <membiblio> from office pc use ssh, if win you need to dl ssh client like Putty (I recommend)
[10:39:50] <membiblio> add a user account for yourself to the machine
[10:40:33] <membiblio> be sure the machine will allow remote ssh - which you may need to config in /etc/ssh_config - a little google will help here
[10:40:51] <membiblio> and then voila -
[10:41:16] <membiblio> but be sure to use secure PW's from that point forward - no password123 stuff or you know
[10:42:22] <lair82> I have a PC in my office with dual OS Ubuntu/Debian that is solely for working on my configs and for testing stuff
[10:43:05] <membiblio> ok there is really no reason to use windows anymore with products like Linux Mint - it looks windowish and works extremely well
[10:43:35] <membiblio> People do seem to like w10 but I loose so much productivity, for months, when I change
[10:44:01] <lair82> My regular office pc, that I am using now is still XP
[10:44:31] <membiblio> Well - I think American Business would be better off using Linux Mint - productivity wise
[10:44:55] <membiblio> Did you all know we are not supposed to use American anymore - leaves South American's out... :(
[10:45:13] <membiblio> I forget there is another hemisphere :) Typical American...
[10:45:26] <lair82> I concur with that, I just had to build a Win 7 32bit machine, it took 3 days of updates to get it to work, and of the 300 plus updates, 7 of them will absolutely not install on the machine.
[10:46:53] <membiblio> I give up on Windows only because I believe that Microsoft has abandoned us. I might be wrong - all I know is Linux Mint based on Ubuntu will allow me to work as I have for the last 20 years since Windows came out.
[10:47:00] <archivist> I had to remove an incompatible intel driver on one machine to get win7 updates to work
[10:47:35] <lair82> ?????????? I wonder if that is what the deal is with mine.
[10:48:06] <membiblio> I installed Mint on a friends laptop - no wireless - dled the broadcom driver package - make, make install and voila! works :)
[10:48:12] <archivist> took an age to find the problem was a toshiba laptop iirc
[10:48:26] <lair82> I put together a Asrock D1800B-ITX with a samsung 120 gb SSD
[10:48:30] <membiblio> archivist - how did you find and which one exactly was it?
[10:49:07] <archivist> some memory driver, lots of frustrating googling
[10:50:15] <archivist> and win8 has put me off any further upgrades after 7
[10:56:52] <membiblio> win8 brought the conversation to a complete halt, I wonder if this happens at cocktail parties?
[11:10:08] <CaptHindsight> I propose American for anyone north and south and uhmerican for USA, http://www.balancer.ru/img/forums/1210/Idiocracy-Uhmerica.png
[11:11:27] <membiblio> I recognize that movie - um... ???
[11:11:48] <CaptHindsight> it's got electrolytes
[11:12:19] <Rab> It's what plants crave!
[11:12:23] <membiblio> I hope that is not where we are headed. Did you all hear about Boeing threat to move overseas because of the imprt/export bank fiasco in congress
[11:13:28] <Rab> The point of satire is that we're already there.
[11:13:38] <membiblio> Idiocracy
[11:14:04] <membiblio> Well - please call your congressmen - this is important
[11:15:04] <membiblio> I don't know much about all this - high school did not teach about import export bank - maybe we need to.
[11:16:37] <CaptHindsight> need a Time Macheen to go back and block the dumbing down
[11:16:59] <lair82> Well it looks like it will be monday before I can get on that lathe to do anything, big HOT job, so I can't get near it until they are done.
[11:17:21] <membiblio> lair82 see if you can ssh into the machine
[11:17:24] <membiblio> ping it first
[11:17:42] <lair82> do I do the ssh from a terminal window?
[11:17:43] <membiblio> the firewall is probably closed, ports
[11:17:51] <membiblio> see if your machine has ssh
[11:17:58] <membiblio> do you know the ip?
[11:18:12] <lair82> I don't know the ip off hand
[11:18:14] <membiblio> ping <ipaddress>
[11:18:18] <membiblio> if it responds then:
[11:18:25] <membiblio> ssh user@ipadd
[11:18:42] <membiblio> oh practice on your desktop machine from another one
[11:19:44] <membiblio> lair82 - i sent you a pm with my cell - text if you need anything when i'm not here - I do work over the weekends and then take off one or two days during the week
[11:19:47] <membiblio> or three
[11:24:21] <membiblio> Jeepers - I did not realize the ieb was so important - here is a nyt article: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-export-import-bank-20150730-story.html
[11:24:29] <membiblio> sorry for going so far off topic
[11:24:40] <membiblio> oops lat article
[11:46:37] <membiblio> So I can not run the Ubuntu version .iso from a usb drive - right? I HAVE to put on CD and boot from that CD?
[11:53:56] <trentster> Hey guys busy finetuning my new gantry design as per your great advice yesterday - I was wondering if there is any reason not to shift the gantry beams forward like so : http://monosnap.com/image/tSJ2FhHFwD6wGgoIbIJUzHILBvJiYW
[11:54:33] <trentster> and have them more orientated towards the middle/center position?
[12:31:01] <zeeshan-lab> hi
[12:41:41] <Rab> trentster, I don't see why not.
[12:49:24] <zeeshan-lab> rab
[12:49:28] <zeeshan-lab> you run machinekit right?
[12:51:35] <Rab> zeeshan-lab, not any more!
[12:51:54] <Rab> But I did get it running with live hardware, to an extent.
[12:52:39] <furrywolf> grrrr. the guy that shipped me a breaker instead of my connector wants me to ship it back fedex before he sends the right item. fedex means I have to drive it to town.
[12:52:43] <furrywolf> someone is getting negative feedback.
[12:53:22] <Rab> furrywolf, is he covering return shipping?
[12:53:52] <furrywolf> yes
[12:53:55] <zeeshan-lab> rab my friend wants to run linuxcnc using his bbb
[12:53:57] <Rab> That's good.
[12:54:02] <zeeshan-lab> hes wondering if its relatively easy to use the gpio
[12:54:09] <zeeshan-lab> for limit switches for example
[12:55:07] <Rab> zeeshan-lab, I found the device tree overlay system pretty baffling. If he can use one of the default cape configurations (e.g. RAMPS), which generally do support limit inputs, that would make things easier.
[12:55:56] <Rab> I had limit and estop inputs working.
[12:56:09] <zeeshan-lab> and maybe even pulsing them to drive the steppers
[12:56:09] <zeeshan-lab> (in real time!)
[12:56:09] <zeeshan-lab> ill be back.
[12:56:22] <Rab> s/RAMPS/CRAMPS
[12:57:02] <furrywolf> CRAMPS? works three days a month whether you want it to or not?
[12:59:46] <Rab> zeeshan-lab, see these capes. They mostly/all have predigested configs in machinekit: http://blog.machinekit.io/p/hardware-capes.html
[13:00:45] <Rab> Of course your friend doesn't need the physical cape hardware, he can just interface right to the I/O headers on the same pins the selected cape uses.
[13:01:33] <Rab> Although he should do so carefully, since the headers expose raw unbuffered CPU pins and are reputedly fragile.
[13:02:30] <furrywolf> lol
[13:04:41] <Rab> Some of the capes are reasonably cheap.
[13:09:40] <furrywolf> personally, I'd suggest staying away from anything other than x86 hardware. anything else will likely soon be poorly supported. all those projects tend to be fads and eventually you end up with an old kernel and no support...
[13:14:03] <Loetmichel> *shitshitshit* my sister just called: our mother is back in the hospital after 4 hours home... vertebrae broken... THIRD TIME in a row... the docs say they will stiffen the whole spine now.
[13:14:57] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: sorry to hear that
[13:15:38] <Loetmichel> the "joys" of osteoporosis :(
[13:58:58] <archivist> interesting accuracy spec "Accuracy: 4 + 5L/ 1000 μm "
[13:59:33] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Etalon-Derby-454-Manual-Co-ordinate-Measuring-Machine-CMM-/281760032666
[14:00:31] <PCW> 9 liters per mm?
[14:00:46] <sartan> hey fellas. I'm setting up a vnxe for a small nfs-based project, and notice i can't seem to have an nfs server share be redundant against both SPs
[14:00:55] <sartan> Is there some magic trick for this?
[14:01:31] <sartan> i can only add eth2/eth3 to a dedicated server for SPA, and same for SPB. when i create a share i can't have both storage servers access the same data either
[14:01:36] <archivist> methinks sartan does not know where he is
[14:01:47] <sartan> How the hell did this redirect from #emc
[14:01:51] <sartan> sorry guys
[14:02:10] <archivist> because large company was nasty to a project called emc
[14:30:19] <just_pink> http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-Carbide-Micrometer-0-00005-Resolution/dp/B00BB19XVY
[14:35:21] <skunkworks_> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=953396&PMAKA=600-0075
[14:37:13] <archivist> resolution is not accuracy
[14:38:54] <archivist> they dont quote the accuracy on their own site
[14:39:09] <archivist> get mitutoyo
[14:40:09] <just_pink> archivist: I want something with ruby tips
[14:40:42] <archivist> carbide os good enough for toolroom work
[14:40:46] <archivist> is
[14:40:52] <skunkworks_> shoes?
[14:40:54] <just_pink> I know..
[14:41:14] <just_pink> but ruby is close to pink..
[14:41:22] <archivist> to go with here fingernails :)
[14:41:26] <archivist> her
[14:41:54] <just_pink> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f19/52521d1337712189-elgin-watch-co-sapphire-tipt-micrometer-2012-05-22-13.29.11.jpg
[14:42:08] * archivist hides his ruby stylii
[14:42:20] <just_pink> where i can get one like that?
[14:42:48] <archivist> ebay I doubt they are being made
[14:43:01] <syyl> wow
[14:43:04] <syyl> that looks neat :D
[14:43:17] <archivist> elgin watch went a long time ago I think
[14:43:17] <syyl> my mitutoyo only have non-bling carbide
[14:43:17] <just_pink> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/elgin-watch-co-sapphire-tipt-micrometer-111487/
[14:44:33] <archivist> you needed to see that thread in 2007 to snap that one up
[14:45:11] <archivist> I dont remember seeing a swiss version of that either
[14:45:45] <just_pink> in 2007 I was focused about shopping / TV / etc..
[14:46:19] <XXCoder> I also suggest mitutyou
[14:46:39] <archivist> http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-TOOL-ELGIN-SAPPHIRE-TIPT-MICROMETER-WITH-CASE-ELGIN-WATCH-CO-AURORA-ILL-/391107710243
[14:46:51] <archivist> missed one last april
[14:47:34] <XXCoder> very blurry pictures
[14:47:37] <just_pink> http://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Laser-Scan-Micrometers-C1068.aspx
[14:49:04] <just_pink> what is the purpose of this thing?
[14:49:16] <XXCoder> 300 bucks for that set isnt too bad but I dunno on how accurate it is. not mitutyo too
[14:49:17] <archivist> I am not a fan of those laser scan devices, the beam is too wide
[14:49:52] <XXCoder> how do that make problem?
[14:49:53] <archivist> just_pink, non contact measuring
[14:50:16] <archivist> form of the thing you want to measure
[14:50:17] <just_pink> like what?
[14:50:34] <XXCoder> anything I guess
[14:50:34] <archivist> gear cutter tooth for a watch gear
[14:50:54] <archivist> the beam is about 1mm
[14:50:56] <XXCoder> sapphire tips for mm that is interesting
[14:50:59] <XXCoder> very hard I bet!
[14:51:07] <XXCoder> what do normal mm use?
[14:51:20] <XXCoder> I think mine is hardened metal tip?
[14:51:23] <archivist> carbide
[14:51:36] <XXCoder> interesting.
[14:51:40] <just_pink> Repeatability .0000012in 0.03um *3]
[14:51:44] <ThisSucks> IMO,Keyence has better optical mics compared to Mitutoyo.
[14:53:06] <archivist> I use an NPL design for best accuracy
[14:54:00] <archivist> the better one have the stationary anvil as a force measuring device
[14:55:12] <archivist> this is a broken one dont buy it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bench-top-micrometer-0-to-4-inch-shardlow-no-750-poss-myford-user-toolroom-/311411656303
[14:55:47] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj0RP8MJSr8
[14:56:19] <archivist> comes in a few varieties http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=micrometer+npl
[14:56:28] <XXCoder> whats wrong with it
[14:56:57] <zeeshan|2> archivist: hi
[14:57:00] <zeeshan|2> when are you sending me that?
[14:57:26] <archivist> broken casting and totally buggered force measuring anvil
[14:57:37] <archivist> er wot!
[14:59:02] <archivist> since that those pictures I have made a replacement lifting platform and screw to hold the item being measured
[14:59:46] <just_pink> I think the Laser Scan Micrometer can be useful for the g0704 tool length measuring system
[15:00:27] <archivist> only if tools are clean and narrow enough
[15:01:05] <archivist> no drips of cutting fluid either
[15:01:26] <zeeshan|2> http://www.keyence.ca/products/measure/laser-1d/index.jsp
[15:01:34] <zeeshan|2> these look bad ass.
[15:01:39] <zeeshan|2> i could use one for the bulge test
[15:03:09] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keyence-LK-031-Laser-Displacement-Sensor-/390436248332
[15:03:32] <zeeshan|2> could measure the height of the bulge in real time
[15:06:12] <archivist> still not seen the Mikron in the mail yet
[15:06:42] <zeeshan|2> :]
[15:06:47] <zeeshan|2> you dont want the mikron, its defective
[15:06:55] <zeeshan|2> it isn't outputting index pulses for the scales! :P
[15:07:00] <archivist> IFixIt
[15:08:04] <archivist> I got a bit deeper in the probe, worked out the internal wiring
[15:08:35] <zeeshan|2> get her mounted in a spindle!!
[15:09:06] <archivist> dug out an audio oscillator to test the LVDTs
[15:09:22] <just_pink> from the video that show how the Laser Scan Micrometer work I don't understand something, the laser from the source point to a rotating mirror, than it's reflect to something that make is parallel to the base no matter what was the income angle
[15:09:39] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj0RP8MJSr8
[15:09:46] <zeeshan|2> sweet my auction has 7 watchers
[15:09:53] <zeeshan|2> i bet they're going to try to snipe
[15:10:06] <archivist> or all ignore it :)
[15:10:12] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[15:10:23] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: ebay has made sniping a real PIA
[15:10:34] <zeeshan|2> os1r1s: how so
[15:10:41] <zeeshan|2> i know you can set max bid
[15:10:47] <zeeshan|2> and it wont kick in
[15:10:49] <zeeshan|2> till the other person bids
[15:11:00] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: You used to be able to use 3rd party services like auctionsniper
[15:11:18] <os1r1s> zeeshan|2: Now they do this random captcha check which prevents them from working all the time
[15:12:06] <zeeshan|2> sweet
[15:12:47] <just_pink> http://www.aeroel.it/technology/how-does-a-laser-micrometer-works.html
[15:12:56] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-CAPACITY-MACHINISTS-PRECISION-UNIVERSAL-V-BLOCK-W-CLAMPS-/291524581727?hash=item43e038195f
[15:13:01] <zeeshan|2> what an interesting v-block
[15:13:03] * zeeshan|2 bids
[15:13:03] <just_pink> much more clear than the video.
[15:15:24] <archivist> zeeshan|2, win it then you have to make a matching one
[15:15:58] <zeeshan|2> thats true
[15:16:01] <zeeshan|2> its kinda useless by itself
[15:16:56] <archivist> looks a bit job specific, but might come in useful, add to pile
[15:17:07] <zeeshan|2> archivist: i want to machine my manifolds
[15:17:14] <zeeshan|2> i dont have anything thatr'll handle a 2 1/2" pipe
[15:17:29] <zeeshan|2> i really need those v blocks you have
[15:17:30] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:17:52] <furrywolf> I have a couple of pipe vises that could probably be bolted to a milling machine.
[15:18:02] * archivist builds a defence along the atlantic
[15:18:10] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[15:20:30] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-40090-Model-Bench-Yoke/dp/B001AI243M I've got a couple of those. they'll work if you just need to clamp pipe... :P
[15:20:40] <XXCoder> furrywolf: know whats funny? ever since I replaced the distuator rotor, mpg has been consiently improved and runs better
[15:20:51] <furrywolf> XXCoder: bad timing would do that, yes.
[15:20:52] <XXCoder> but STILL rough idle whn warmed up and hotter weather
[15:21:15] <XXCoder> I never got any error code since then too, and its been 3 weeks.
[15:21:21] <XXCoder> or was it a whole month now
[15:21:34] <furrywolf> now you can fix my subaru for me. :P
[15:21:41] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FUNNY-TOOL-BOX-HAMMER-WRENCH-SOCKET-TAPE-MACHINIST-MECHANIC-STICKER-DECAL-FINGER-/121065654607?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3013494f
[15:21:41] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:21:45] <XXCoder> lol
[15:21:59] <furrywolf> zee still hasn't engineered the proper helmholtz resonator to fix my intake resonance issue. :P
[15:22:09] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: nice!
[15:22:10] <zeeshan|2> problem is lack of nawz
[15:22:28] <XXCoder> I want it for my toolbox at work lol but nah
[15:22:53] <XXCoder> what stuff are useful surpises me
[15:23:26] <XXCoder> shop has dead blow hammers all over but I always prefer mine, it bounces much less for light use
[15:23:43] <zeeshan|2> a dead blow shouldnt be bouncing =D
[15:23:48] <XXCoder> exactly
[15:24:15] <XXCoder> shop hammers is good for pretty strong impact, but do crap at light hits
[15:24:27] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Strap-on-Sticker-Decal-Vinyl-Car-JDM-illest-STANCE-drift-LOW-euro-TURBO-tuner-/281746925139 always tempting to get some of those stickers, stick them to my snapon boxes, and see if anyone notices.
[15:24:34] <zeeshan|2> lol
[15:24:43] <zeeshan|2> nice
[15:24:44] <zeeshan|2> subtle
[15:24:47] <XXCoder> lol
[15:26:48] <furrywolf> there's 528 listings for those on ebay. apparantly they must be popular. lol
[15:28:41] <XXCoder> texans. one shot at armadillo and got hurt in head by bullet bounce
[15:29:06] <XXCoder> it died and I don't see why guy shpot at it, its not like its toxic or something, just never touch it
[15:29:43] <furrywolf> huh
[15:29:44] <furrywolf> ?
[15:30:00] <XXCoder> which part fif you huh at?
[15:30:03] <XXCoder> *did
[15:30:39] <furrywolf> <XXCoder> it died and I don't see why guy shpot at it, its not like its toxic or something, just never touch it
[15:30:51] <XXCoder> oh they all carry leposy
[15:31:04] <XXCoder> I'm sure you dont wanna bits fall off :)
[15:31:22] <XXCoder> ironically that man may have infected himself with it
[15:31:28] <XXCoder> bullet injecte.
[15:31:53] <furrywolf> usually you just cook them well, I think. :P
[15:34:14] <furrywolf> supposed to be good bbqed over rice... haven't tried it myself though. no armadillos around here.
[15:34:42] <XXCoder> yeah dont think it is very congious, just that it exists.
[15:35:13] <furrywolf> redneck advice: just about everything is edible. :)
[15:35:43] <XXCoder> lol
[15:35:53] <XXCoder> I recall one funny thing in discworld series
[15:35:57] <XXCoder> dwarf bread
[15:36:10] <furrywolf> are there any inedible mammals?
[15:36:21] <XXCoder> with it, you will never be hungry, because theres always stuff you rejected thats better than dwarf bread
[15:36:57] <XXCoder> no, I think. just not good eating
[15:37:07] <XXCoder> like tiny amount of meat and lots other stuff
[15:37:29] <XXCoder> http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Dwarf_Bread
[15:37:33] <XXCoder> funny read
[15:38:56] <furrywolf> a friend of mine tried fox once (it ran right in front of his tire, and he was hungry...), said it was pretty gamey but edible.
[15:40:33] <Rab> Cat's pretty good.
[15:41:30] <furrywolf> cats aren't food. :(
[15:41:48] <XXCoder> they can be. only culture difference
[15:41:52] <XXCoder> dogs too
[15:43:47] <furrywolf> meh. if I were stuck on a mountain pass with sled dogs, I'd try the donner solution first. no way I'd eat a dog.
[15:45:23] <XXCoder> assuming not alone
[15:45:33] <XXCoder> honestly I don't know what I'd do.
[15:45:55] <XXCoder> it is very hard to figure what you'd do in that extreme event
[15:46:45] <furrywolf> travel with people you don't like, so you don't mind eating them. :P
[15:47:04] <XXCoder> lol
[15:47:10] <XXCoder> bring a dwarf bread
[15:47:26] <XXCoder> I'd rather eat people than dwarf bread
[16:02:01] <os1r1s> PCW: Around?
[16:09:45] <PCW> yes
[16:10:57] <XXCoder> furrywolf: one site says soleoids can be possible problem, but how do I test that?
[16:16:49] <os1r1s> PCW: In the hal file, how do I map the e-stop or other inputs that are hooked to the 5i25?
[16:16:58] <os1r1s> I already have the pins mapped
[16:18:20] <os1r1s> PCW: The equivalent of net estop-ext <= parport.0.pin-15-in
[16:20:27] <PCW> net estop-ext <= hm2_5i25.0.gpio.015.in
[16:21:57] <PCW> well maybe not 015 since those are GPIO numbers not DB25 pin numbers
[16:22:21] <os1r1s> PCW: Ok. So that would be the DB25 pin
[16:23:22] <PCW> net estop-ext <= hm2_5i25.0.gpio.003.in
[16:23:24] <PCW> would be pin DB25 pin 15
[16:26:42] <furrywolf> PCW: any progress on 7i76es?
[16:26:54] <PCW> nope
[16:27:47] <PCW> Too many OEM orders, probably will not get to it for a while
[16:27:49] <os1r1s> PCW: So it maps to the Function pin listed in the PDF
[16:28:28] <PCW> the .pin file show the mapping
[16:29:19] <os1r1s> Got it. Is there an example for the pwmgen running on the 5i25?
[16:29:37] <PCW> or run
[16:29:38] <PCW> sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --readhmid > current.pinout
[16:30:08] <os1r1s> PCW: I need to convert this ... http://pastebin.com/dfXitYm1
[16:30:25] <PCW> the hm2-servo example file should work
[16:32:24] <PCW> your pastetbin is for the software pwmgen
[16:32:26] <PCW> The hm2 pwmgen is similar but needs a different name and its parameters are a bit different
[16:32:27] <os1r1s> PCW: K. I see the pinout from the mesaflash command.
[16:32:28] <PCW> man hostmot2 for the details
[16:32:48] <os1r1s> PCW: I have it working with software and I need to convert it to work with the 5i25.
[16:32:53] <os1r1s> :)
[16:47:40] <Deejay> gn8
[17:19:03] <XXCoder> damn this is so funny
[17:19:04] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0DAeQuf_0I
[17:21:59] <furrywolf> it had better not be as stupid as the video title suggests./
[17:22:14] <XXCoder> it is
[17:22:28] <XXCoder> they did pretty good job tough
[17:22:30] <XXCoder> though
[17:22:43] * furrywolf saves bandwidth
[17:22:52] <XXCoder> your loss
[17:23:34] <furrywolf> sigh. I better not regret this.
[17:23:40] * furrywolf starts it downloading
[17:28:52] <furrywolf> ... ok. probably some guy bouncing a camcorder on some form of mast.
[17:29:33] <furrywolf> good effects for an amatuer (?) production, not anything humorous...
[17:33:28] <XXCoder> well just found it to be really funny
[17:36:45] <furrywolf> wow. I just came across a device I've never heard of before.... a Mercury Displacement Relay. sounds healthy.
[17:37:38] <Tom_itx> those used to be in thermostats
[17:38:13] <XXCoder> other fun (but MUCH less toxic) is bimetal material
[17:38:23] <XXCoder> still used on various stuff like termostat
[17:38:50] <JT-Shop> you won't find any of them on a submarine
[17:38:55] <furrywolf> all the mercury thermostats I've taken apart just had a little capsule tilt switch. nothing resembling a relay.
[17:39:15] <Tom_itx> well that's what i was referring to
[17:39:33] <Tom_itx> not sure if that qualifies as a relay
[17:40:39] <JT-Shop> anyone seen my GoPro Camera?
[17:40:56] <Tom_itx> is it on your bike helmet?
[17:41:55] <furrywolf> http://www.wolfautomation.com/products/804/mercury-relayscontactors-30-to-100-ampbrmdi-mercury-relays apparantly they look like that
[17:42:23] <JT-Shop> that is where I want to put it
[17:42:24] <furrywolf> at least those are mercury relays that came back in a search for mercury displacement relay
[17:45:35] <furrywolf> I guess they're displacement since they move the mercury by moving something down into it, displacing it upwards to the contact
[17:48:48] <furrywolf> I tried buying a gopro once. it was at a yard sale with a $3 sticker on it. I figured it was broken or something. I went to pay, and it turned out he meant $300. I did not buy it.
[17:48:59] <XXCoder> drat
[17:49:21] <XXCoder> but yeah dunno why people think their used stuff count for same price as new
[17:49:27] <XXCoder> in few cases even above!!
[17:49:56] <XXCoder> I saw nook (orginial) for $200, when NEW nook simple touch (later version) was still being sold for $50
[17:50:16] <furrywolf> yeah, I see yard sale and craigslist prices like that all the time.
[17:50:55] <furrywolf> and on craigslist they almost invariably start spamming it in multiple categories and reposting it every day because they think that'll make them more likely to find some sucker who doesn't realize what a bad price it is.
[17:51:29] <XXCoder> heh yeah I remember one that there was over 50 entries for some really crappy hardware
[17:51:39] <furrywolf> or they're old people with computers. "I paid almost $3000 for it only ten years ago! You're trying to rip me off by telling me it's not still worth $2500!"
[17:52:19] <andypugh> So I reformatted my HD (because I have backups) and reinstalled the OS, and then found that the backup was damaged and can’t be recovered.
[17:52:19] <XXCoder> computer valye = orginial * (1 / number of days since bought)
[17:52:44] <furrywolf> andypugh: ouch. how much of the backup can you recover?
[17:52:51] <andypugh> None at all
[17:53:06] <XXCoder> ow
[17:53:13] <andypugh> That’s every email from 1992 gone
[17:53:38] <andypugh> The odd thing is, it feels almost liberating
[17:53:43] <furrywolf> did you do a quick reformat or a wipe-everything one?
[17:53:59] <Tom_itx> it forces you to start a fresh
[17:54:12] <furrywolf> if it took less than 5 minutes, you can usually recover your data.
[17:54:19] <andypugh> I probably could
[17:54:32] <furrywolf> actually, if you already reinstalled, never mind.
[17:54:32] <andypugh> But then the data also exists in the backup, technically
[17:55:46] <andypugh> Just about everything LinuxCNC has already been pushed
[17:56:12] <andypugh> I only lost CAD models of things I have already made
[17:56:23] <XXCoder> I remember reading about one guy who modified backup settings till it only took a minute to backup
[17:56:27] <XXCoder> you can guess why
[17:56:43] <andypugh> I think I will get over it :-)
[17:56:52] <XXCoder> the company is nonexistant now since they really depended on data to run, and data was corrupted and backup was.. well. lol
[17:58:29] <XXCoder> andypugh: that is why there is annual "restore your backup" day :)
[18:00:01] <JT-Shop> does BackupPC work on a mac?
[18:03:06] <andypugh> The problem is that during my attempts to restore I tried to delete an empty share. But that was the one with the backups in, they were just invisible to the NAS GUI for some reason.
[18:03:38] <andypugh> So, I have about 1TB of 8k files that make up the majority, but not all, of the backup.
[18:04:17] <furrywolf> you have exceeding my knowledge of backups, since I've never made backups that involve NAS or a GUI...
[18:04:34] <XXCoder> wow
[18:04:46] <XXCoder> intersection near my home has been blocked off by police
[18:04:54] <XXCoder> roads is really major ones
[18:05:13] <XXCoder> I saw motorcycle parked and crap around it dunno what happened
[18:06:10] <andypugh> I keep finding old HDDs too, which contain stuff.
[18:07:38] <JT-Shop> I have a mac but I think the HD is bad and I don't have the OS either so it is a paper weight
[18:08:02] <furrywolf> andypugh: I'd start by figuring out how your backup was damaged and how to recover it.
[18:08:21] <XXCoder> that is useful for how to avoid bad backups again
[18:08:29] <XXCoder> *too
[18:08:58] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, sitting next to the boat anchor?
[18:09:21] <JT-Shop> near the boat anchor yes
[18:09:39] <andypugh> I deleted some of the sparsebundle bands.
[18:09:48] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: can't do a restore?
[18:10:00] <zeeshan|2> like using recuva ?
[18:10:13] <zeeshan|2> if you havent tried to access the hd w/ the data
[18:10:20] <zeeshan|2> it should still be recoverable , u nless you did a low level format
[18:10:43] <andypugh> I have reinstalled on top
[18:10:58] <zeeshan|2> doh
[18:11:23] <andypugh> The backup is a “sparsebundle” of 8k files, but I deleted some by mistake
[18:12:23] <andypugh> It’s like the old days of trying to stitch together the sectors of a floppy disk, but with 2TB rather than 1MB
[18:16:43] * furrywolf has never even heard of a sparsebundle, but googles anyway
[18:17:05] <zeeshan|2> i was still in my diapers when andypugh was sparsebundling
[18:17:28] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: To be fair, that was only last year.
[18:17:46] <zeeshan|2> self diss
[18:17:47] <zeeshan|2> :[
[18:18:45] <furrywolf> seems to be some mac-only thing?
[18:19:13] <zeeshan|2> i still find it odd andy uses a mac
[18:19:13] <zeeshan|2> :p
[18:20:19] <XXCoder> mac
[18:20:20] <furrywolf> like most mac stuff, finding nothing useful googling.
[18:20:33] <XXCoder> yeah because nobody does useful anything with mac lol
[18:23:53] <furrywolf> do you still have the "control files"?
[18:25:01] <andypugh> I don’t know.
[18:25:46] <andypugh> I am probably going to wait until I remember something that I _really_ want before I worry too much about it
[18:27:17] <andypugh> For example I thought “That gear calculation spreadsheet was useful, ah, but I emailed it to Ben, so it’s in my gmail archive”
[18:27:30] <andypugh> And that is true for quite a lot of stuff
[18:28:36] <furrywolf> https://github.com/abique/tmfs or https://github.com/torarnv/sparsebundlefs might be handy in some fashion
[18:28:54] * zeeshan|2 hates the policy at school
[18:29:01] <zeeshan|2> need 3 ppl in the furnace room to operate furnace
[18:29:08] <XXCoder> dang that is so close on clearance. https://youtu.be/HH8Xkw4Awbc
[18:29:17] <zeeshan|2> i had to outsource my stress relieving heat treatment
[18:30:18] <furrywolf> couldn't get a couple minions?
[18:33:12] <zeeshan|2> they were busy making minions 2
[18:33:13] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[18:33:18] <XXCoder> lol
[18:33:29] <zeeshan|2> i love minions
[18:33:32] <furrywolf> looking at https://github.com/torarnv/sparsebundlefs/blob/master/sparsebundlefs.cpp , the sparsebundle format looks remarkably trivial - that is, they're just slices of a disk image, with no fancy mapping schemes or anything.
[18:33:50] <furrywolf> in that case, you can probably just concatenate them all together, padding missing bands with zeroes, and use normal disk recovery tools on it.
[18:34:04] <furrywolf> how many of the band files are you missing?
[18:34:43] <andypugh> I don’t know how to tell
[18:34:50] <furrywolf> (or, pad missing bands with 0xDEADBEEF, just so you can easily spot if any of the missing data ends up in a recovered file)
[18:35:32] <JT-Shop> did you lose your arrest records?
[18:36:20] <furrywolf> looks like they're numbered consecutively (in hexadecimal) from 0 to however many there are, so check how contiguous your numbering looks.
[18:36:52] <furrywolf> the first ten are probably the most important for an effort-free recovery
[18:37:49] <furrywolf> also, an Info.plist file has some settings in it
[18:41:54] <andypugh> <integer>8388608</integer>
[18:42:01] <andypugh> Looks like the number of bands
[18:42:16] <andypugh> wc says I have 198218 files
[18:42:36] <furrywolf> that's probably the size of each band
[18:42:43] <furrywolf> yes, it is.
[18:42:56] <andypugh> Ah, yes
[18:43:11] <furrywolf> number after that should be size of image
[18:43:32] <furrywolf> so you have the Info.plist file I take it?
[18:43:38] <andypugh> Yes
[18:43:56] <furrywolf> what is the next number in it, which should be the total image size?
[18:44:20] <andypugh> size is meant to be 1987941040128 and file count x size is 1662773100544
[18:44:40] <furrywolf> hrmm, actually, size might be maximum size, not current size
[18:44:56] <furrywolf> do you have band 0?
[18:47:11] <andypugh> Hard to say
[18:47:26] <andypugh> ssh into a 200k file directory is slow
[18:47:35] <furrywolf> I'm reading up on time machine's format now...
[18:49:00] <furrywolf> time machine apparantly adds a layer of hardlinks
[18:49:12] <andypugh> I have 0, 100, 1000, 10000, 10002, 10003…
[18:50:21] <furrywolf> what error do you get trying to restore it, anyway?
[18:50:38] <andypugh> It just won’t look at it
[18:50:54] <furrywolf> if you have the 0 band, life should be easy, as that should have the filesystem information, I believe...
[18:51:02] <andypugh> Normally at that point you would mount the sparesebundle as a disk image, but it won’t have that either
[18:51:39] <andypugh> I have 20 but not 2…
[18:52:27] <andypugh> 30, 300, 3000, 30000, 30001…
[18:53:18] <furrywolf> is 1.5tb a good estimate for the original size of the image?
[18:53:18] <andypugh> What I actually get is “file not found” so potentially I could manually create empty files with the missing names
[18:54:13] <andypugh> The backup had grown to 1.8TB as an incremental backup of a 1TB disc
[18:55:00] <furrywolf> hrmm, so it probably has a bunch of old bands you're not currently using, from what I'm reading about time machine.
[18:55:16] <andypugh> Yes
[18:57:25] <furrywolf> you have enough data you have a good chance of getting most of it off. first thing to do is MAKE A BACKUP of your broken backup, so if you break it worse, you can restore it.
[18:57:28] <andypugh> Messing about with a 2TB file is difficult
[18:57:40] <furrywolf> yes
[18:58:00] <andypugh> I don’t actually have anything big enough to put the sparsebundle on
[18:58:13] <XXCoder> if you has some budget you could buy 2 tb drive for say $50 to 100
[18:58:27] <furrywolf> first rule of data recovery is always work on a copy. :)
[19:01:46] <furrywolf> " Linus Torvalds has said that "HFS+ is probably the worst file-system ever".
[19:01:47] <furrywolf> lol
[19:05:08] <XXCoder> man sometimes being deaf is annoying
[19:05:23] <XXCoder> makes it hard to diganos problems for van lol
[19:06:56] <zeeshan|2> easy
[19:06:58] <zeeshan|2> put a mic out
[19:07:11] <zeeshan|2> download audacity
[19:07:14] <zeeshan|2> watch wave form!
[19:07:49] <XXCoder> I might have a idea
[19:07:50] <zeeshan|2> maybe not so easy, but thats what i do still
[19:07:56] <XXCoder> use multimeter to check cables
[19:08:01] <XXCoder> see if are bit dodgy
[19:08:05] <XXCoder> *any
[19:08:48] <XXCoder> yeah thats a decent idea,e be back
[19:10:02] <furrywolf> I want btrfs to hurry up and be ready for use.
[19:14:14] <furrywolf> btrfs-progs 4.1.1 (Jul 2015)
[19:14:14] <furrywolf> NOTE: mkfs creates invalid filesystem, use 4.1.2 and recreate all filesytems
[19:14:25] <furrywolf> see, things like that are why I don't use it. lol
[19:14:31] <furrywolf> "recreate all filesystems" should not be a step.
[19:16:43] <furrywolf> btrfs has the potential to replace every existing filesystem and be better in every way, or so the hype says... now they just need to hurry up and finish it. :)
[19:25:25] <andypugh> Topy44: You know you were taking about overdefined systems the other day>
[19:25:28] <andypugh> ?
[19:26:30] <andypugh> I have just been reminded of a good example of such a thing, as it just failed and stranded our 1916 fire engine
[19:28:03] <andypugh> It has a taper on the back axle worm shaft that fits a drive “knuckle”, and is drawn up with a nut. It has _two_ keyways at 90 degrees. So the keyways define an axis, and the taper defines an axis, and if you are _very_ lucky, they agree.
[19:29:37] <furrywolf> lol
[19:30:03] <furrywolf> use soft keys. :)
[19:33:11] <andypugh> That rather misses the point :-)
[19:34:16] <furrywolf> it does?
[19:34:57] <furrywolf> if they don't quite line up, the key will squish, instead of your taper not seating.
[19:35:23] <andypugh> And then they will squish some more under drive
[19:36:14] <andypugh> Any keys soft enough to squish under the tension of the (thin) nut would give way under drive
[19:36:44] <andypugh> This is a 9 litre engine
[19:36:48] <furrywolf> heh
[19:36:48] <furrywolf> so use only one key?
[19:37:09] <andypugh> Yes, that is exactly what we decided
[19:38:37] <XXCoder> darn!!
[19:38:47] <XXCoder> all wires has good enough conductivity
[19:39:21] <XXCoder> and damn! HOT outside.
[19:40:08] <XXCoder> 94F
[19:40:13] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> so use only one key?
[19:40:18] <ffurrywol> <furrywolf> (and then it breaks under drive, too...)
[19:40:43] <andypugh> Well, the actual failure mode is not the key (directly)
[19:41:04] <ffurrywol> the failure mode is it gets loose, wobbles, makes bad noises, then goes crunch?
[19:41:22] <ffurrywol> or did it just break when you tightened the nut? heh
[19:41:56] <andypugh> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/6177830644422360001/6177830645018056642
[19:42:44] <andypugh> fatigue failure from the corber of the keyway
[19:42:52] <andypugh> (corner)
[19:43:27] <ffurrywol> sounds like it got loose first, then.
[19:43:46] <andypugh> Hard to say
[19:44:44] <andypugh> I really don’t think that there is enough nut preload for it to be a true friction drive, I think it relies on the key
[19:44:56] <andypugh> and a back axle is a constantly reversing load
[19:45:11] <ffurrywol> my connection seems to be sucking too badly to load the image. that happens after 5pm...
[19:45:43] <ffurrywol> my truck is old, but not that old... my shafts have splines on both ends. :)
[19:46:17] <andypugh> This one uses a steel “knuckle” in a square hole with two bronze slippers as the UK
[19:46:23] <andypugh> (UJ, I mean)
[19:46:26] <ffurrywol> coarse splines, 23 splines on a 1.5" diameter shaft, not modern fine splines, but still splines.
[19:47:00] <ffurrywol> you have universal joints on your back axle? shiny
[19:47:17] <andypugh> Pity you can’t see the picture, it shows the (broken) knuckle, the outer box and the slippers
[19:47:51] <andypugh> The joint is on the input shaft to the diff
[19:48:10] <ffurrywol> I'll try again...
[19:48:21] <ffurrywol> ohhh... when you said knuckle, I was thinking wheel knuckle...
[19:49:40] <ffurrywol> looks like it's loading this time, slowly
[19:50:14] <ffurrywol> all googles services are SLOW, due to using https for no reason, and tons of javascript bloat.
[19:50:20] <ffurrywol> hasn't even started loading the image yet, still loading bloat.
[19:52:57] <ffurrywol> yeah, that looks pretty mushed. looks like the other key spun afterwards and spread the taper too
[19:53:38] <ffurrywol> time to machine a new one?
[19:55:44] <ffurrywol> unless the recess around the taper is required, skip it. it'll make it a lot stronger.
[19:57:28] <ffurrywol> apparantly I can't actually zoom in, despite it giving a zoom option.
[19:57:33] <ffurrywol> I hate google products.
[19:58:17] <ffurrywol> I click the + button, and all it does is enlarge the 317x564 thumbnail-ish image, making it pixelated.
[19:59:22] <ffurrywol> I guess if that recess contains the slippers, you probably don't want to machine new ones to solidly fill that space unless you have to...
[20:02:21] <andypugh> Yes, the diamter round the taper can’t be much bigger or the joint won’t be able to articulate.
[20:06:04] <andypugh> Well, I got all my music back from an old HDD :-)
[20:08:39] <andypugh> The machine had become _horrible_ to use due to becoming unresponsive for 6 seconds out of every 30. I had decidedit was a failing HD, and re-installing the OS after a reformat was the last thing to try before a new HDD. So I was a bit surprised when it was all lovely again with a clean new system.
[20:09:31] <andypugh> So, n some ways, no restore does at least mean that I can’t return the system to the borked state.
[20:47:12] <norias> I go back and forth between being impressed
[20:47:14] <norias> and disgusted
[20:47:20] <norias> with my wood working capability
[20:52:41] <os1r1s> Is there a relationship between pwm frequency and pdm frequency
[20:52:54] <andypugh> NO
[20:53:02] <andypugh> Sorry, I mean No
[20:53:17] <andypugh> PDm runs at the base thread frequency always
[20:54:01] <os1r1s> I need to set it for the 5i25 ... It seems to default
[20:54:18] <andypugh> PDM is what you get when you set PWM frequency to zero (not inherently, that is how the driver is written, rather than a law of physics)
[20:54:36] <andypugh> Ah, that’s different
[21:00:02] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
[21:00:16] <os1r1s> andypugh: I looked at that, but I'm not getting it
[21:00:54] <os1r1s> I think since my output type is 1 it may not matter
[21:00:57] <andypugh> Set output-type to 3 and set pdm_frequency to the required number
[21:01:10] <andypugh> Do you want PDM?
[21:01:30] <andypugh> Or am I answering the wrong question?
[21:01:31] <os1r1s> No, I don't. I don't think so anyway. I want to PWM
[21:01:43] <os1r1s> But it makes me specify *something*
[21:09:45] <andypugh> No, PDM_frequency is ignored in PWM mode.
[21:10:15] <os1r1s> andypugh: Perfect. That is what I was looking for
[21:12:49] <andypugh> Interesting machining puzzle. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxjJW1-T6n7CSWxJMVZRdXVydVNSMEJKQWVsWXhrYVp1UUVB/view?usp=sharing
[21:13:13] <andypugh> It’s a lathe saddle gib, to be machined from a 35mm round iron bar.
[21:13:35] <andypugh> Tapers and a parallelogram.
[21:14:06] <andypugh> It’s going to be a pig to hold.
[21:40:33] <ffurrywol> yay, two more bug zappers installed. if each one kills 10 mosquitos a night, that's .000001% of the number flying around!
[21:41:07] <zeeshan|2> why are you killing mosquitos
[21:42:51] <ffurrywol> because they're evil parasites that carry disease and cause large painful lumps?
[21:43:01] <zeeshan|2> they are food for spiders
[21:43:04] <zeeshan|2> and birds
[21:43:06] <zeeshan|2> and bats
[21:43:10] <zeeshan|2> !
[21:43:17] <zeeshan|2> and also fish
[21:43:33] <zeeshan|2> only female mosquitos bite
[21:43:38] <zeeshan|2> male mosquitos are chill
[21:44:09] <zeeshan|2> and it is a well known fact that bug zappers kill more good buds
[21:44:12] <zeeshan|2> bugs like moths etc
[21:44:15] <zeeshan|2> than mosquitos :P
[21:44:48] <ffurrywol> moths aren't good either. they eat my plants!
[21:44:57] <zeeshan|2> :P
[21:45:10] <ffurrywol> mosquitos don't seem to get caught in spiderwebs.
[21:45:25] <ffurrywol> birds seem to be active in the morning, mosquitos in the evening.
[21:45:38] <ffurrywol> I don't know how many bats are around here. probably not too many.
[21:45:41] <ffurrywol> no fish
[21:46:19] <zeeshan|2> frogs im sure you have
[21:46:27] <zeeshan|2> i was googling why we dont eradicate mosquitos
[21:46:31] <zeeshan|2> cause i hate them as well
[21:46:37] <zeeshan|2> then realized, every damn creatue seems to have a purpose
[21:46:42] <zeeshan|2> no matter how annoying it is
[21:47:03] <ffurrywol> some areas do have mosquito eradication programs
[21:47:48] <zeeshan|2> man im on antibiotics
[21:47:52] <andypugh> mosquitos don’t _want_ to give you malaria.
[21:47:54] <zeeshan|2> my insides are on FIRE
[21:48:15] <zeeshan|2> they've pretty much owned all the good bacteria in my stomach + intestines
[21:48:20] <zeeshan|2> poor things
[21:49:03] <zeeshan|2> hey guys
[21:49:10] <zeeshan|2> have you tried putting 110vac through a metal chip before?
[21:49:15] <zeeshan|2> i highly suggest it
[21:49:20] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: https://xkcd.com/1471/
[21:49:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[21:50:23] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ibVS25k.jpg
[21:50:25] <zeeshan|2> look in the background
[21:50:36] <zeeshan|2> look at my solution for keep chips out of the receptacle :D
[21:50:55] * ffurrywol predicts duct tape
[21:51:12] <zeeshan|2> nop
[21:51:14] <ffurrywol> post-its? bleh
[21:51:31] <zeeshan|2> i think duct tape is a shitty conductor
[21:52:06] <zeeshan|2> i had a chip fall in there
[21:52:08] <zeeshan|2> and vaporize
[21:52:15] <zeeshan|2> it actually went boom
[21:52:22] <zeeshan|2> with a plasma ball. and the chip was only 1/4"
[21:52:25] <zeeshan|2> never seen that before
[21:52:29] <zeeshan|2> scared the shit out of me
[21:52:40] <ffurrywol> lol
[21:53:38] <zeeshan|2> its a quiet friday night here
[21:53:45] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mwdc78YaUE (it’s that silly man again)
[21:54:17] <ffurrywol> I saw someone trimming a tree drop a limb on the power lines... where it hit it started an arc which quickly turned into a ball lightning-ish light show, which then travelled down the wires following the narrow spot caused by the impact wave in the wires...
[21:54:39] <andypugh> Sounds pretty. From a distance
[21:55:17] <ffurrywol> it went down to the far end, bounced, and started coming back, then went away. along with all the lights in the area. then he had to call pg&e...
[21:55:37] <andypugh> Lucky not to be calling A&E
[21:55:47] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:55:56] <ffurrywol> they had to come out and change a fuse on one of the poles, and he got a lecture on how he shouldn't drop branches on trees, as it makes them very unhappy...
[21:55:59] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: is colin an engineer?
[21:56:01] <ffurrywol> a&e?
[21:56:14] <ffurrywol> s/on trees/on wires
[21:56:18] <andypugh> Accident and Emergency
[21:56:26] <zeeshan|2> a&e is a very british thing
[21:56:29] <andypugh> (Hospital dept)
[21:56:29] <zeeshan|2> my sister works in the a&e
[21:56:37] <zeeshan|2> nih thing
[21:56:52] <ffurrywol> oh, duh. I was thinking the american tv channel, and wondering what the hell you were talking about. lol
[21:56:57] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[21:57:10] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: can you confirm an expression for me
[21:57:19] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I would call him an engineer. The IMechE might disagree. The IMechE don’t think I am an engineer.
[21:57:22] <zeeshan|2> when brits say "to be american about it"
[21:57:30] <zeeshan|2> is that another way of saying
[21:57:32] <zeeshan|2> "this is slang"
[21:57:42] <zeeshan|2> whos imeche
[21:58:01] <andypugh> I actually have no idea what that phrase would mean.
[21:58:07] <zeeshan|2> dont lie
[21:58:14] <zeeshan|2> ive heard so many british people say it on youtube
[21:58:18] <zeeshan|2> especially "intellects"
[21:58:28] <zeeshan|2> :]
[21:58:40] <zeeshan|2> "inst of mech eng"
[21:58:41] <zeeshan|2> i see
[21:58:43] * ffurrywol is tempted to reply in cockney rhyming slang just to really confuse zeeshan
[21:58:43] <andypugh> No, really, I don’t know. It might be obvious in context.
[22:00:03] <jdh> I am a Senior Lecturer (or, if you want to be American about it, Associate Professor)
[22:00:25] <jdh> watch the most popular football (or soccer, if you want to be American about it) league in the world
[22:00:35] <zeeshan|2> ah
[22:00:47] <zeeshan|2> that makes sense
[22:00:51] <zeeshan|2> i thought they were dissing americans
[22:01:03] <jdh> probably are, they are like that, youknow.
[22:01:28] <andypugh> Those two are clearly just transations.
[22:02:44] <ffurrywol> go have a butcher's at a list of british phrases. :P
[22:03:46] <andypugh> Interesting thing googling that phrase led to a discusion on tipping.
[22:03:54] <ffurrywol> lol
[22:04:15] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:04:32] <zeeshan|2> hey, if someone lists their ebay listing wrong
[22:04:36] <zeeshan|2> like they say free shipping
[22:04:46] <zeeshan|2> when they actually meant to charge for shipping, what happens?
[22:04:53] <zeeshan|2> and youve won the auction
[22:04:55] <ffurrywol> some sellers will honor it, some will just cancel the transaction.
[22:05:21] <andypugh> In southern Spain leaving a tip is almost seen as an insult. The implication that you are on a higher social standing than the waiters, and they should appreciate your largesse. In the US you are likely to get in trouble for not tipping.
[22:05:37] <ffurrywol> ebay does not penalize sellers for cancelling transactions. in theory, they have a seller non-performance policy, but in reality they never cancel accounts or otherwise punish sellers for cancelling transactions.
[22:05:40] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: its crazy how different areas of the world work like that
[22:05:43] <zeeshan|2> even in pakistan its like that
[22:05:49] <zeeshan|2> tip is saying "im better than you"
[22:05:54] <zeeshan|2> "peasant."
[22:06:09] <jdh> tipping is uncivilized
[22:06:13] <ffurrywol> I only tip because around here restaurants are allowed to pay well under minimum wage and tell staff to make up for it with their tips.
[22:06:17] <ffurrywol> otherwise I think it should be abolished.
[22:06:23] <andypugh> When you think about it, that is what you are saying.
[22:06:24] <zeeshan|2> ffurrywol: same here
[22:06:33] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: its a diff context here though
[22:06:43] <zeeshan|2> you're saying "thank you going out of your way"
[22:06:56] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what is acceptable in brittan?
[22:06:56] <zeeshan|2> some servers really do go out of your way for you to have a decent time out with the freinds
[22:06:58] <andypugh> Yes, your waiting staff are basically slaves :-)
[22:06:59] <jdh> and by 'going out of your way', I mean 'your job'
[22:07:06] <zeeshan|2> jdh no
[22:07:10] <zeeshan|2> they can do their job
[22:07:14] <zeeshan|2> and then they can do more than their job
[22:07:18] <zeeshan|2> dont get dirty ideas :P
[22:07:24] <furrywolf> wait staff is considered a very low status job around here.
[22:07:40] <jdh> depends on the venue
[22:07:44] <andypugh> Tom_itx: We are in an awkward no-mans land and feel equally awkward tipping ot not tipping.
[22:07:54] <Tom_itx> hah
[22:08:21] <furrywolf> I wish I could visit britain... stop by a few random curry houses... and then visit pakistan and compare... and I'm sure both would be a lot better than what you get here.
[22:08:48] <Tom_itx> yeah i'd like to visit several places over there
[22:09:35] <furrywolf> I miss the good indian place we had here. :(
[22:09:45] <zeeshan|2> yay someone bid on my auction!!!!!!!
[22:09:47] <zeeshan|2> and its got 5 days left
[22:10:06] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: what indian food do you like
[22:11:04] <andypugh> eBay managed to sell 5 more of something than I had listed.
[22:11:21] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: whatcha mean
[22:11:28] <zeeshan|2> how could they do that :P
[22:11:36] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261986624189?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[22:11:40] <zeeshan|2> someone is going to get a good deal on this
[22:11:50] <zeeshan|2> mostly layout stuff
[22:12:07] <andypugh> I got an email that actually said “listed 2, sold 7. remaing, -5” and the no-help desk chap insisted that theu had never sent that email and I should forward it to spoof@ebay
[22:12:27] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:12:31] <andypugh> (and I had to cancel 5 transactions)
[22:12:44] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: curries mostly
[22:13:03] <zeeshan|2> i like chicken or beef vindaloo
[22:13:07] <zeeshan|2> its a very indian dish
[22:13:32] <zeeshan|2> but as far as pakistani food goes, i like lahori briyani
[22:13:46] <zeeshan|2> i dont eat a lot of brown food lately cause most of it has nutmeg/mace
[22:13:51] <zeeshan|2> and im allregic to it
[22:13:51] <furrywolf> hell, I'm almost tempted to bid on that, just because I can't find my micrometer and you have a digital one. :P
[22:13:55] <zeeshan|2> so i gotta make it myself without it
[22:14:08] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i wouldn't risk it
[22:14:11] <furrywolf> beef vindaloo is NOT a very indian dish. lol
[22:14:18] <zeeshan|2> you shoulda told me you wanted that
[22:14:20] <zeeshan|2> i woulda send it to you
[22:14:34] <zeeshan|2> *sent
[22:14:50] <furrywolf> beef dishes tend to be pakistani rather than indian
[22:14:57] <zeeshan|2> why do you say that
[22:15:08] <zeeshan|2> mumbai people eat a lot of beef
[22:15:08] <jdh> indians aren't big on beef
[22:15:15] <zeeshan|2> hindus arent
[22:15:25] <zeeshan|2> but a lot do eat beef
[22:15:40] <zeeshan|2> most of my hindu friends eat beef
[22:15:50] <furrywolf> your friends aren't very good hindus. :)
[22:15:53] <andypugh> I recall visiting Nirmal’s in Sheffield. Mrs Nirmal was from Delhi, and most UK curry vendors are Bangladeshi. My friend asked for a chicken biryani and Mrs Nirmal said “Oh, sir, we do _far_ better curres than that!” and basically refused to sell him one.
[22:16:06] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:16:14] <zeeshan|2> bengalis make their food a bit weird
[22:16:17] <zeeshan|2> same with gujaratis
[22:16:24] <zeeshan|2> they add fucking sugar in their butter chicken
[22:16:26] <zeeshan|2> its disgusting
[22:16:33] <zeeshan|2> (sorry about the profanity!)
[22:16:34] <furrywolf> sugar? eww
[22:16:37] <zeeshan|2> but it is absurd
[22:17:13] <andypugh> Her arguiment was that a real Biryani is lovely, but takes an hour to cook, and has to be eaten right then. You can’t do a real Biryani in a restaurant context.
[22:17:19] <furrywolf> the guy that owned the place here (pakistani) made a really good beef karahi...
[22:17:27] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: omg!
[22:17:29] <zeeshan|2> that stuff grew on me
[22:17:32] <zeeshan|2> i like chicken karahi
[22:17:47] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: do you guys have a lot of different types of food in uk?
[22:18:07] <zeeshan|2> where i live, ive got arab, indian/paki, italian, greek, carribean, all sorts
[22:18:19] <zeeshan|2> jerk chicken is pretty damn good
[22:18:25] <furrywolf> andypugh: most restaurant biryani I think is actually a pulao.
[22:18:30] <andypugh> Yes, because we have been told for centuries that our native stuff is rubbish.
[22:18:37] <zeeshan|2> bs
[22:18:41] <zeeshan|2> i love british food
[22:18:46] <furrywolf> compared to indian, everything is rubbish. :P
[22:18:47] <zeeshan|2> starting with custard
[22:19:04] <zeeshan|2> you can't beat a good fish and chips
[22:19:22] <andypugh> Spotted dick and custard. Sounds sily, bit it’s great
[22:19:35] <zeeshan|2> jeez whatr is this name
[22:19:43] <furrywolf> I don't mind british food, but it's roughly impossible to get here.
[22:20:06] <zeeshan|2> i get birds custard!
[22:20:32] <zeeshan|2> lemme think what else i love
[22:20:33] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick
[22:20:34] <zeeshan|2> omg
[22:20:37] <zeeshan|2> SHEPARDS PIE
[22:20:39] <zeeshan|2> delicious
[22:21:21] <zeeshan|2> yorkshire pudding is another good one
[22:21:38] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if rhubarb pie is a british recipe
[22:21:50] <zeeshan|2> *recipe == origin
[22:22:16] <zeeshan|2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhubarb_pie
[22:22:17] <zeeshan|2> wiki says uk
[22:22:29] <furrywolf> no black pudding, no brussel sprouts, no scottish or irish (mmm, haggis),...
[22:23:00] <zeeshan|2> fak i want food now
[22:23:05] <zeeshan|2> rhubarbs pie come to me.
[22:23:25] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: isn't it past your bed time
[22:23:27] <zeeshan|2> 4am?
[22:24:02] <andypugh> Yes, well, it would be if I felt tired
[22:24:26] <furrywolf> there's very little international cuisine where I am.
[22:24:34] <furrywolf> we have a bunch of chinese restaurants, and they're all fucking garbage.
[22:24:36] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: that sux :/
[22:24:44] <zeeshan|2> i despire chinese food
[22:24:49] <zeeshan|2> at restaurants
[22:24:56] <furrywolf> we have two indian places, one is garbage, the other isn't bad, but doesn't have much variety, and is very expensive.
[22:24:56] <zeeshan|2> no matter where you go, its loaded with msg
[22:25:01] <malcom2073> I love me a good chinese buffet
[22:25:26] <furrywolf> we have a german place, and it's both garbage and stupidly overpriced. you order bratwurst, they take it out of a store-bought package, stuff it in the microwave, plop it on a plate, and charge you $15.
[22:26:14] <furrywolf> there's a couple italian places, but they're overpriced and not very good.
[22:26:26] <zeeshan|2> haha
[22:26:31] <zeeshan|2> gotta love microwaved food
[22:26:48] <furrywolf> there's several mexican places, but they're all crap too... I have a mexican coworker who's tried every one of them, and confirms none of them resemble food that would be served in mexico.
[22:26:50] <zeeshan|2> hows your grocery stores though
[22:26:54] <zeeshan|2> do you have a lot of fruits and vegies
[22:26:57] <zeeshan|2> cali is known for it
[22:26:57] <furrywolf> yes
[22:27:13] <zeeshan|2> i think they provide 70% of usa's fruits and vegies
[22:27:16] <furrywolf> there is one good Vietnamese place, but it's pretty pricey.
[22:27:25] <zeeshan|2> pho is pretty good
[22:27:31] <zeeshan|2> but kinda bland too
[22:27:37] <andypugh> It was wierd in Spain earlier this month. If you order beer they bring free food. At the end of the night you have had 4 beers and enough food for all practical purposes and get a €10 bill.
[22:27:45] <furrywolf> they know me there and dump lots of thai hot peppers in my dishes... normally when serving americans they don't use any.
[22:27:48] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: haha
[22:27:53] <zeeshan|2> is spanish food similar to mexican?
[22:27:55] <zeeshan|2> ive never had it
[22:28:58] <furrywolf> I've asked a couple staff about it, and they say that every time they serve americans food prepared like it would actually be back home, they get complaints, people leaving without paying, etc. or, as one waitress put it, "back to kitchen! back to kitchen! every time, back to kitchen!".
[22:29:33] <andypugh> Well, their real food is varied and nice. What you get with the beer is Tapas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapas so things like fried baby octopus, calamari, potato croquettes, fried chicken…
[22:29:35] <furrywolf> me, I love a handfull of fresh thai hots chopped into my meal. :)
[22:30:30] <zeeshan|2> cool
[22:30:35] <zeeshan|2> can you name a entree dish
[22:30:38] * zeeshan|2 wants to look it up
[22:30:47] <furrywolf> I've never had spainish cuisine.
[22:30:50] <furrywolf> no idea what it's like
[22:31:04] <zeeshan|2> http://www.taste.com.au/images/recipes/sfi/2010/06/24907_l.jpg
[22:31:06] <andypugh> Fried baby octopus is the only dish that actuallt upsets me. Well, I guess I would feel the same about deep fried kittens or baby hamsters.
[22:31:07] <zeeshan|2> i dont know what th ehell this is
[22:31:13] <zeeshan|2> but it look delicious
[22:31:21] <zeeshan|2> eggs?
[22:31:28] <furrywolf> re beef in india... "Last month, however, this changed. Beef dishes were forced off the menu when Maharashtra, the country’s second most populous state, which incorporates Mumbai, extended a ban on cow slaughter to bulls and oxen, and made the sale of beef punishable by up to five years in prison. A few weeks later, the state of Haryana passed similar legislation. Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s office has suggested that such bills a
[22:31:54] <furrywolf> omlette or quiche of some variety
[22:32:15] <zeeshan|2> id think its kind of like portuguese food
[22:32:16] <zeeshan|2> that ive had a lot of
[22:32:20] <furrywolf> I like both omlettes and quiche, so I guess I have had spanish food, just didn't think of it. heh.
[22:32:22] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Spanish Ommelette. Potato, eggs and (in that case) Chorizo
[22:32:32] <zeeshan|2> nice
[22:32:57] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: so, no, mumbai people don't eat a lot of beef... it's currently illegal there, in fact.
[22:33:22] <andypugh> I wonder on what basis?
[22:33:42] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: no!
[22:33:45] <zeeshan|2> http://time.com/3833931/india-beef-exports-rise-ban-buffalo-meat/
[22:33:46] <zeeshan|2> lol
[22:33:51] <malcom2073> I like calamari, but when they use baby squid I'm not fond of it
[22:34:28] <furrywolf> I don't like deep-fried food.
[22:34:45] <andypugh> Deep fried Mars Bars?
[22:34:49] <malcom2073> I like most every food
[22:34:52] <zeeshan|2> deep fried ice cream
[22:34:53] <zeeshan|2> so good
[22:34:59] <zeeshan|2> newfoundland people make it best
[22:35:50] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: from the page you pasted, "However, since India’s exports are composed entirely of water-buffalo meat or carabeef, the bans will not affect the figures cited in the report."
[22:35:54] <furrywolf> so... not beef. lol
[22:36:03] <zeeshan|2> :p
[22:37:08] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: what part of canada are you in again? I'm looking for a source of grade C maple syrup if you're on that corner of the canada.
[22:37:39] <furrywolf> s/the//
[22:38:23] <furrywolf> by the time it makes it all the way to california, you only get A light and A dark... can't even get B... I want C!
[22:39:48] <furrywolf> A light is for people who want flavorless sugar. A dark is for people who want almost flavorless sugar. B is getting there. C is for people who actually, you know, like maple.
[22:39:53] <andypugh> I am currently working through the “Flashman” books. The main character is a despicable cad, which is quite an interesting way to describe history, because he can take contrary views on almost everything. It makes fascinating readng (and the plots are fun). Very interesting on the slave trade, indian wars (US) and indian wars (UK in India)
[22:47:15] <andypugh> Flashman’s view of US aborigines was that they were very badly treated, horribly abused and were _also_ cruel unpleasant savages. And basically neither side unserstood the other at all. (In very fundamental ways). We probably won’t see that again until (and if) we meet ETs. Though it still might be worth considering in dealing with the likes of Boku Hartam who really don’t even agree with the West on what constit
[22:47:15] <andypugh> admirable. According to the Flashman books (and these are novels, so let’s not take things as fact, but consider the scenario) the Apache admired nothing more than a cunningly contrived theft.
[22:50:42] <andypugh> If you step back from the Judeo-Christian worldview, what isn’t to appreciate in clever scheming? We all like a tale of a well-planned con, after all. As long as we are not the victim. It’s not a big step to considering that a virtue, and having a very different basis of society. The clever and ruthless get rich at the expense of the slow and meek. Hey, hang on….
[22:51:04] <furrywolf> hrmm, apparantly as of four months ago, there's a new grading system for maple syrup, which should be showing up in stores soon.
[22:51:34] <andypugh> Sickly, sweet, tacky, maply?
[22:52:13] <furrywolf> I guess what I want is now called "Processing Grade"
[22:53:20] <andypugh> Maple Molasses?
[22:53:53] <zeeshan|2> im in ontario
[22:54:23] <zeeshan|2> real maple syrup is good
[22:54:29] * furrywolf needs to find a quebecois
[22:54:29] <zeeshan|2> REAL GOOD!!
[22:54:50] <zeeshan|2> its expensive here for the grade A stuff
[22:54:57] <zeeshan|2> youre prolly talking 25$ for a 500 ml bottle
[22:55:15] <furrywolf> grade A is the worst. :P
[22:55:16] <zeeshan|2> vs corn syrup which is 4$ a bottle
[22:55:53] <andypugh> There is a young Jay hanging about outside my garage. He’s big, but downy. I don’t know when they are meant to leave the nest.
[22:56:00] <furrywolf> the grading system is backwards, if you like flavor, not sugar... grade A is the most sugar, least flavor... grade C is the most flavor.
[22:56:17] <zeeshan|2> are you sure
[22:56:20] <zeeshan|2> grade cis the dark stuff
[22:56:25] <zeeshan|2> the higher the grade the more lighter the color
[22:56:31] <zeeshan|2> more refined it is
[22:58:07] <furrywolf> grade A is the stuff you can see through, grade C is the stuff you can't.
[22:58:09] <zeeshan|2> http://www.amazon.ca/Kirkland-Signature-Canadian-Maple-Syrup/dp/B002NSG0R4
[22:58:12] <zeeshan|2> this is the stuff i get
[22:58:17] <zeeshan|2> 500 ml version
[22:58:22] <furrywolf> I think they're numbered 1-3 in canada, with 1 being what we call A here, and 3 what we call C here.
[22:59:01] <furrywolf> heh, they sell those at the costco here, but they're closer to $16...
[23:02:52] <just_pink> hi
[23:05:48] <furrywolf> lol, processing grade is "fairly free of damage, fairly free of turbidity or cloudiness, and is fairly clean."
[23:13:14] <andypugh> Fairly free of twigs and whole leaves
[23:13:31] <andypugh> Some caterpilars are to be expected
[23:13:58] <andypugh> So, should this chap be out of the nest yet? https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/August12015?authuser=0&feat=directlink
[23:15:04] <zeeshan|2> he looks happy
[23:15:04] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:19:06] <zeeshan|2> i cant believe im sleeping before andypugh
[23:19:07] <zeeshan|2> :p
[23:19:59] <andypugh> I might bea tyou yet.
[23:20:10] <andypugh> In fact, yes, I should.
[23:20:14] <andypugh> Night all
[23:20:33] <furrywolf> lol
[23:20:40] <just_pink> 14um resolution it's accurate enough for tool length measurement?
[23:22:50] <just_pink> archivist: XXCoder ?
[23:22:55] <XXCoder> yo
[23:23:01] <just_pink> 14um resolution it's accurate enough for tool length measurement?
[23:23:02] <XXCoder> just got back lol
[23:23:11] <XXCoder> no idea never did that stuff
[23:23:36] <XXCoder> tiny planks or big bird
[23:24:07] <XXCoder> defnitely big bird
[23:25:05] <just_pink> I'm try to make DIY version of laser micrometer.
[23:26:23] <XXCoder> nice!
[23:27:31] <just_pink> I need high vacuum chamber.
[23:28:35] <just_pink> and of course high voltage source to make the sputtering
[23:30:11] <just_pink> XXCoder: you know where i can get hexagon or octagon shaped mirror?
[23:30:20] <XXCoder> nope
[23:34:20] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[23:35:06] <just_pink> furrywolf: good night (I think there is a full moon outside..)
[23:35:12] <XXCoder> blue moon
[23:35:29] <XXCoder> furrywolf: night
[23:36:03] <just_pink> for narrow laser beam you need that the source will produce it now from the beginning or there's a trick to do it with optics?
[23:36:40] <os1r1s> just_pink: You need a first surface mirror
[23:37:38] <just_pink> os1r1s: yeh. all the mirors in optics are first surface mirror
[23:38:02] <os1r1s> just_pink: I usually order mine from http://www.thorlabs.com/navigation.cfm?guide_id=7
[23:38:16] <just_pink> but I want to get very nrrow laser beam
[23:39:55] <just_pink> os1r1s: basically I can put an iris, and narrow the beam this way, but I will lose energy this way
[23:40:12] <os1r1s> just_pink: That is what I do with one of my printers
[23:40:32] <just_pink> just iris?
[23:40:55] <just_pink> os1r1s: what is the diameter of the beam?
[23:41:13] <os1r1s> I don't recall
[23:50:36] <archivist> just_pink, old laser printers had a scanning mirror
[23:51:49] <just_pink> I heve ere aFS mirror... but jst want to get hex one..