#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-28

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[00:00:37] <just_pink> cradek: but it will add few inches.. that make runout...
[00:01:07] <cradek> it's true they do add length
[00:01:55] <furrywolf> I've been meaning to try stuffing my harbor freight micro die grinder in a collet in the spindle on my mill... I think with a length of pipe as the drawbar and air feed, it'll just work... probably need to thread the outside of the pipe for a nut.
[00:02:34] <just_pink> the easy way is to use TTS, the right way is to use the R8 with tool loder
[00:02:37] <furrywolf> I might need a shaft collar around the die grinder to make it pull the collet tight
[00:03:06] <cradek> goodnight folks
[00:03:10] <furrywolf> cyas
[00:03:31] <furrywolf> just_pink: you're fitting a power drawbar and automatic tool changer on a g0407?
[00:03:48] <furrywolf> f0704
[00:03:50] <furrywolf> g0704
[00:03:55] <just_pink> yes
[00:04:28] <furrywolf> ever consider just buying a used VMC?
[00:04:29] <just_pink> air less power drawbar
[00:04:52] <just_pink> yes - wayyy tooo big
[00:05:49] <furrywolf> see, I have a chinese machine too... and I know it's a low-quality chinese machine. and I put as little money and effort into it as necessary.
[00:06:30] <just_pink> I'm on second floor.
[00:07:16] <just_pink> you cant put a vmc here unless you want hole in the floor,
[00:07:23] <furrywolf> floors are strong. :P
[00:08:01] <furrywolf> floors are stronger than most people give them credit for. for example, a party with 25 people is 5000ish pounds... more if they're fat people.
[00:08:16] <furrywolf> so if you can have a party without the floor collapsing, you can put a machine there too.
[00:08:27] <just_pink> 10 m/m on the machine and the house is dancing...
[00:12:01] <just_pink> and the stack light consroller is finished!
[00:12:16] <Rab> 25 people in the footprint of a VMC is a hell of a mosh pit.
[00:13:01] <furrywolf> Rab: that's why you put it on some timbers running across your joists. :)
[00:13:09] <just_pink> I just need to find a good buzzer and way to drive the 24V leds
[00:14:28] <trentster> howdy all.
[00:15:57] <trentster> I have a o flute carbide bit for cutting acrylic sheet, its cutting ok, not binding, but the kerf is melting on the upcut - but does get removed on the next pass in the profile cut.
[00:16:48] <furrywolf> you're cutting acrylic without it exploding? you've already exceeding what I've accomplished. :)
[00:16:56] <trentster> I have not cut acrylic beofre and have no clue feeds and speedsm but I have the feed at about 1500mm a minute which seems fast enough, I was wondering if this is perhaps spindle speet that is being the culprit?
[00:17:09] <trentster> *spindle speed
[00:17:44] <trentster> furrywolf: heh yeah its tricky stuff for sure. Cutting side panels for cnc router itself at the moment
[00:18:17] <trentster> Anyone who is a Acrylic cutting rockstar here who can give me some of your magic advice?
[00:18:32] <furrywolf> I've had worse luck drilling, though. I've never managed to put a hole in acrylic with a hand drill without it cracking.
[00:19:08] <trentster> furrywolf: the trick to perfect acrylic hand drilling is to use a tapering center bit
[00:19:24] <just_pink> http://www.elan2.com/
[00:19:45] <furrywolf> I decided the trick was to use polycarbonate instead. :)
[00:20:09] <trentster> stepless drill bit will get it right every time no cracking or melting
[00:20:37] <furrywolf> hrmm, I've never tried my unibits on it.
[00:20:45] <furrywolf> on, stepless, not step.
[00:20:46] <furrywolf> oh
[00:20:51] <furrywolf> bah, too late at night to type.
[00:21:37] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/JxG8cdv6Pq7Ke3QuMKYgyhca5iUzcC
[00:21:42] <just_pink> https://youtu.be/gajOAmnfwrc
[00:21:53] <trentster> until I tried that it was a nightmare with normal drill bits
[00:22:41] <just_pink> try to freeze the plastic
[00:23:21] <trentster> just_pink: that machien looks awesome both me and my kid would have endless fun with that :-)
[00:24:21] * furrywolf bets it's not cheap
[00:24:59] <furrywolf> liquid oxygen is more fun, anyway. ever see the videos of people using it to light a bbq faster? :)
[00:25:31] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxZ7TFdXZRA
[00:26:39] <just_pink> the DIY version ^
[00:27:34] <trentster> I am busy making one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqjn3mup1So
[00:27:48] <trentster> If I never return to the channel I have blown myself up ;-)
[00:29:31] <furrywolf> ... why?
[00:30:06] <furrywolf> what use do you have for a gas that can not be stored, and you get less energy by burning than you would have gotten from using the electricity directly?
[00:31:06] <furrywolf> and don't say you're going to use it to make your vehicle get 147mpg.
[00:31:46] * furrywolf has had this discussion about a hundred times and is sick of it. find double-blind trials showing milage improvements.
[00:32:49] <fenn> i feel dumber having watched the water electrolysis video
[00:33:36] <furrywolf> lol
[00:34:18] <fenn> here's a fun pick and place robot video "DexTAR - - The fastest five-bar parallel robot" http://youtu.be/dnixuCu49o4
[00:34:56] <fenn> ok maybe not fun but it's new to me
[00:35:16] <trentster> furrywolf: nope I have spare solar panels - was planning on using it to passively produce and store fuel from water
[00:35:47] <furrywolf> trentster: you can't store nor use the gasses mixed. you have to build a proper electrolysis cell that generates separate oxygen and hydrogen.
[00:35:55] <trentster> but mainly just doing it for kicks, looks like a fun project to teach my kid about science
[00:36:02] <trentster> kids love making things go bang!
[00:36:09] <trentster> so does dad ;-)
[00:36:37] <just_pink> what is thed glue that he use to glue the acrylic?
[00:36:53] <furrywolf> and converting those gasses back to usable energy requires either a fuel cell or combustion. for heat, the efficiency isn't too bad, but you'll get much more heat putting the solar power into batteries then using them to run a heat pump.
[00:37:06] <fenn> just_pink: methylene chloride
[00:37:50] <trentster> I am also making a little mini aluminium forge to store up some ingots from wate aluminium that is everywhere, let me guess next you guys are going to tell me its cheaper to buy aluminium than the charcoal bricks used for the forge ;-)
[00:38:19] <furrywolf> nah, that's much more useful. :P
[00:38:36] <trentster> furrywolf: yeah solar + batteries is a great combination. but batteries are expensive and have limited lifespan, water is everywhere
[00:38:56] <trentster> so is sunshine - especially in Australia
[00:38:59] <furrywolf> trentster: as I said, it's harder to store than you're thinking. :P
[00:39:02] <Rab> fenn, that robot is wicked. The kinematics must have been interesting to program.
[00:39:18] <furrywolf> you can't just stuff the combined o2 and h2 into a tank. it will recombine, very rapidly, and exothermically.
[00:39:53] <furrywolf> you need a real electrolysis setup that outputs them separately. then you need compressors to put them in tanks. then you need some way of using them.
[00:40:12] <trentster> furrywolf: yeah - I am aware of how impractical a device it is, its still fun, and nice to have around for a Zombie apocalypse ;-)
[00:41:01] <furrywolf> I have lots of solar panels, and if there were a cheap way to avoid batteries, I would definitely do it. :P
[00:41:28] <trentster> furrywolf: yup energy storage is the real challenge generation not so much
[00:42:12] <furrywolf> eh, when you live in the subtropical rainforest near the foggiest airport in the country, generation is a problem too. :)
[00:42:23] <fenn> just_pink: there are different formulations of acrylic cement with varying amounts of acrylic pre-dissolved in them as a thickening agent but the "water thin" kind works best when you have a good fit between parts, for example http://www.amazon.com/Weld-On-Acrylic-Adhesive-Applicator-Bottle/dp/B0096TWKCW
[00:42:26] <furrywolf> third-foggiest airport in the world
[00:43:24] <fenn> it's hard to get straight methylene chloride now because of environmental protection laws
[00:43:40] <trentster> You see the highschool kid on Ted talk who was attempting to make fusion reactors in his garage when he was 14 has now started a company for modular thorium mini reactors that are made in a factory and shipped to your location, gets buried underground in the backyard - scary shit - but pretty impressive
[00:44:33] <trentster> furrywolf: whre do you live sounds interesting - except for the airport part
[00:44:35] * furrywolf has no idea what Ted talk is, and is only familiar with one kid attempting to make a backyard reactor, and causing a rather expensive hazmat incident in the process.
[00:44:51] <furrywolf> trentster: pacific northwest, usa.
[00:45:19] <just_pink> fenn: the glue is toxic?
[00:45:22] <trentster> furrywolf: https://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_wilson_my_radical_plan_for_small_nuclear_fission_reactors?language=en
[00:46:16] <fenn> just_pink: yes the fumes are toxic
[00:46:58] <furrywolf> trentster: whatever that site is, I don't like it. first it's https for no reason, then they managed to break their font so it's unreadable, and then it seems to be just media content with no actual content.
[00:47:10] <just_pink> I'm work inside the house,,
[00:48:14] <furrywolf> oh, and they're apparantly blind, because rather than using my browser's default font setting, they scale their broken font to fucking DOUBLE anything that's comfortable to read. for their useless non-content.
[00:48:46] <fenn> there is a transcript but you're supposed to watch the video and go "ooh ah" and look at the pictures
[00:48:50] <just_pink> I'm also dont like stuff that are acitone based
[00:49:01] <trentster> furrywolf: omg just watch it dude! - and btw https is the recommended standard for every internet connected device now - it stops bots and goverments automatically building psychological profiles on user surfing habits.
[00:49:12] <fenn> acetone is relatively safe
[00:49:33] <fenn> it's flammable of course
[00:49:45] <furrywolf> trentster: attempting to watch it results in a black box.
[00:49:56] <trentster> https is one of Snowden's pleas to the world
[00:49:57] <just_pink> fenn: but it is distroy your nail polish
[00:50:04] <furrywolf> also, I do not want video, I want TEXT. that I can READ.
[00:50:18] <trentster> furrywolf - no one said you should use your cnc machine to watch web 2.0 videos
[00:50:26] <trentster> get yourself a real computer like a Mac
[00:50:29] <trentster> :P
[00:50:57] <fenn> http://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_wilson_my_radical_plan_for_small_nuclear_fission_reactors/transcript?language=en
[00:51:05] <trentster> or search for it on youtube - TED Talks is like a famous knowledge sharing site - my guess would be you need a new computer or modern browser
[00:51:16] <furrywolf> ... youtube would, again, be video.
[00:51:41] <furrywolf> a) I do not have broadband. b) I do not like video.
[00:51:43] <trentster> furrywolf: shall I send it to you in Braille then?
[00:52:04] <fenn> i tend to agree with furrywolf here, if you can provide content as text it should be the first choice rather than forcing people to watch a long and probably poorly edited video
[00:52:29] <trentster> sigh *trentster goes to look for a tall building
[00:52:47] <fenn> not everyone can hear or see rapidly moving images
[00:53:13] <furrywolf> I hate video. Despite taking huge amounts of bandwidth, all the content in it is invariably limited to the rate someone talks at. Usually someone slow and annoying. I can read text many times faster. I can also skim text. I can reread bits of text instantly. etc.
[00:53:47] <Rab> Hmm, there's a transcript right on the page.
[00:53:47] <furrywolf> Why in the world would I want to slowly listen to someone talk, when I can just read it?
[00:53:56] <trentster> furrywolf: fenn you did see the site has these buttons right http://monosnap.com/image/wEcDn7CAqYmAFNWtoX4J90G0J08pNM
[00:54:40] <trentster> or would you like it in morse code as well?
[00:54:57] <fenn> yes and i linked to the transcript four minutes ago too, but ranting is more fun
[00:55:16] <trentster> heh yes it sure is ;-)
[00:55:45] <fenn> ted is pretty well curated and edited
[00:56:07] <fenn> there's an awful lot of "sup youtube, it's me again, i'm talking at the camera yo"
[00:56:45] <fenn> first world problems
[00:58:40] <furrywolf> why do sites try to use fonts and sizes different than what you set as your browser default? I really wish firefox hadn't removed the option to ignore stupid websites...
[00:58:42] <trentster> yeah - its also an age problem - not to be rude to anyone on either extreme of a lifespan in here - but the world is evolving so rapidly and humans tend to form their view of the way they see the world and the way it should be during a small span of their developmental years. After that we are creatures of habit and don't like change.
[00:58:58] <furrywolf> I set my font to the size I like! If I wanted it twice the size, I'd set it twice as large.
[00:59:31] <trentster> heh - need I say more
[00:59:35] <trentster> :P
[01:00:07] <furrywolf> and if I wanted it grey, I'd set it grey.
[01:00:37] <fenn> you can set fonts to whatever you want
[01:01:02] <furrywolf> trentster: as it turns out, I'm not blind. Thus, I do not want my letters a quarter inch tall. This is what the website you pasted sets it to!
[01:02:12] <trentster> furrywolf: my apologies if I wronged you :-) (that Darn TED site I will send them a letter)
[01:02:34] <furrywolf> I also don't want them #555.
[01:03:09] <furrywolf> Separation of content and presentation is a GOOD THING. you supply the content, the browser figures out how to best present it to the user, based on the user's preferences.
[01:03:13] <fenn> there is a plugin called stylish and even a built-in function in the preferences (you're using firefox yes?) to set the font size and color and background
[01:03:51] <trentster> you guys should drop down to the console and use lynx - then all your sites will look the same and your font issues will be gone :-)
[01:04:01] <fenn> it actually modifies something called the user CSS which was designed just for you
[01:04:05] <trentster> OMG I cant believe we are still having this conversation ;-)
[01:05:05] <furrywolf> fenn: I use stylish. I even write css for it. :)
[01:05:15] <trentster> So - cutting acrylic - reccomended spindle speeds for a 4mm upcut O-flute bit - anyone?
[01:05:57] <furrywolf> however, for stupidity like that site, firefox's "inspect element" and just unchecking anything starting with "font" works quite well.
[01:07:20] <furrywolf> so, skimming that transcript (one of the nice things you can do with text, not video), it seems to be some long rambling thing about 100MW reactors being mass-produced, then buried all over the place. I didn't see any mention of how they plan on dealing with heat rejection, but I did just skim it.
[01:08:06] <furrywolf> also, I do not believe we'll have commercial fusion power in 20 years. :)
[01:10:04] <fenn> i'm seeing people recommending 18000rpm and 100-250ipm with a 6mm cutter so faster is probably better
[01:11:28] <fenn> that's a chip thickness of ~0.01 inch
[01:11:38] <furrywolf> fenn: you use wunderground by any chance? when they killed classic, I started writing a bit of a css patch to make their new site not fucking suck.
[01:11:49] <fenn> i use noaa.gov
[01:11:53] <furrywolf> you can have it if you want it. :)
[01:12:23] <fenn> i usually use dillo with css override so everything looks the same
[01:12:40] <trentster> furrywolf: yeah I personally think nuclear power generation to boil water is one of the most insidious dumb mistakes we have made as a so called intelligent species. I even wrote a long personal blog post on it - as most folks don't have a clue what radiation is. PS it is text and hopefully will be readable on WWII browsers http://blog.smartcore.net.au/fukushima-reality-dysfunction/
[01:12:43] <furrywolf> I like dillo, but way too many websites depend on javascript these days.
[01:13:22] <fenn> yes there is a lot of crap javascript, for that i use either "surf" or midori
[01:13:31] <fenn> which is just a thin layer over webkit
[01:13:53] * furrywolf uses RIP on trentster's navigation bar so scrolling works properly
[01:15:04] <fenn> i want to argue about this but i don't think it will get anywhere so yeah, how bout them robots, cnc is great
[01:15:09] <trentster> furrywolf: sorry its wordpress
[01:16:09] <furrywolf> I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having water as part of it... water has a lot of really nice properties. It doesn't tend to catch fire when exposed to the atmosphere, unlike a lot of liquid metal reactors...
[01:16:21] <furrywolf> NaK is fun.
[01:17:37] <fenn> water has a relatively low boiling point so you're wasting a lot of the power output from the core unless you use dangerously high pressures
[01:17:45] <furrywolf> Helium cooled pebble bed is the best of the next-generation reactor designs I've seen.
[01:18:20] <furrywolf> Spending a lot more money on fusion power research might result in something even better than next-gen fission reactors, however.
[01:18:43] <fenn> yes, political feasibility
[01:18:58] <fenn> because fusion!
[01:25:21] <furrywolf> Fusion power has definite potential... but not nearly enough money spent on seeing if it's possible to convert that potential into commercial power plants. ITER is a waste of money, sadly. The politician-to-scientist ratio is way off.
[01:26:07] <fenn> trentster: despite throwing around a lot of encyclopedic information, that blog post contains some extreme inaccuracies. there was no fission explosion, the reactors did not "melt down" they shut down as designed
[01:27:06] <furrywolf> fenn: current evidence is at least one did, in fact, "melt down", in that the rpv contents are sitting underneeth it rather than in it... but, yeah, the rest of it makes a lot of claims that really need to be referenced to reliable information sources. :)
[01:27:36] <trentster> fenn: you are wrong
[01:28:16] <trentster> not sure where you got your information from - but that post was meticulously researched - there are references to the data at the bottom
[01:29:25] <trentster> that being said there may be some typos etc there ;-)
[01:29:30] <zeeshan> hi fenn
[01:29:32] <trentster> its a blog post after all.
[01:29:36] <furrywolf> most of it seems to be a rant against nuclear power in general, and not against BWRs, which is what " nuclear power generation to boil water is one of the most insidious dumb mistakes" suggests. :P
[01:30:11] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ibVS25k.jpg
[01:30:17] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/xCeQzQS.jpg
[01:30:23] <zeeshan> gotta make a diffuser for it
[01:30:36] <zeeshan> thanks for the help rab and fenn!
[01:30:37] <zeeshan> :]
[01:31:13] <furrywolf> heh, added a light to your mill?
[01:31:24] <trentster> furrywolf: the data is the data - I tried not to be biased and present the facts there as per indipendent scientists who attended NY science academy medical suymposium - on consequences of Fukushima - mainly phycicists and medical PHD doctors and engineers.
[01:31:28] <zeeshan> the light was there
[01:31:33] <trentster> plus lots of other sources.
[01:31:35] <zeeshan> but gi think the ballast was fried
[01:31:43] <zeeshan> so i put in some led strips
[01:32:12] <trentster> furrywolf: but everyones view is welcome :-) I welcome debate - if its intelligent :-)
[01:33:51] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-Underwater-LED-White-Flood-Spot-Light-Garden-Pond-Pool-Lamp-Waterproof-12V-/161368429577 I have one of those I stuck to a magnet... it's pretty handy
[01:34:08] <furrywolf> and it's available in warm white
[01:38:26] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[01:39:23] <trentster> rest well mate
[01:39:30] <zeeshan> cya!
[01:40:19] <trentster> time to cut some more acrylic for me - my guess would be that sindle should be slower rpm and not higher to prevent melt and produce chips
[01:40:24] <trentster> ve shall see
[01:41:01] <zeeshan> cut me a lense while youre at it!
[01:41:16] <trentster> a lens?
[01:41:21] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: you can buy diffuser at most hardware stores. you might have to get a 2x4ft piece though.
[01:42:30] <fenn> i agree slower sounds better, trying to resolve the discrepancy that all my google results say do a bazillion rpm
[01:43:11] <fenn> so i think it has more to do with getting a sufficient chip thickness so you're not just rubbing against the workpiece
[01:44:48] <trentster> fenn: thanks - that makes sense - kind of what I was thinking
[01:45:09] <trentster> try avoid heat high rpm = heat = melted acrylic
[01:45:16] <archivist> sharpness and form of the cutter matters too for plastics
[01:45:33] <archivist> it grabs
[01:45:42] <trentster> so balace between making sure cutting head is in contact with same spot as little as possible plus low rpms
[01:46:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: good to know
[01:46:46] <zeeshan> ive machined acrylic before
[01:46:50] <zeeshan> go super fast!
[01:46:58] <zeeshan> :D
[01:47:36] <trentster> archivist: in all honesty I am not using a super high quality onstrud bit - but it is a carbide single O-flute
[01:47:41] <fenn> going faster would also keep the heat in the chip instead of letting it transfer to the workpiece, but your machine has to be able to handle the loads and vibration
[01:47:45] <trentster> altho chinese in origin ;-)
[01:48:26] <archivist> and the plastic has to be well held down
[01:48:58] <fenn> could swear i had a video on youtube of cutting acrylic
[01:49:24] <zeeshan> me too
[01:49:26] <trentster> archivist: yeah that may be my problem these are huge acrylic sheets rescued from the side of a road where they were in aluminium doors so overhang the machine on both sides by about 600mm
[01:49:26] <zeeshan> i cant find it
[01:49:26] <zeeshan> wtf
[01:49:37] <trentster> I did drill hold down screw holes tho
[01:50:08] <trentster> so there is a a lot of resonance there
[01:50:32] <archivist> positive rake and the cutter can grab and the sheet lifts towards the cutter
[01:50:39] <trentster> my depth of cuts could also be too aggressive as well - not sure acrylic seems like a puzzle to solve
[01:51:31] <zeeshan> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7374/15911508203_c249d27714_h.jpg
[01:51:36] <zeeshan> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7349/16345786307_7cfce17c6e_h.jpg
[01:51:50] <archivist> I was an a place where they kept getting failures, stoned the drill to 0 rake at the tip, perfect drilling
[01:51:59] <zeeshan> easy pasy
[01:52:40] <fenn> here i'm doing 400mm/min and 5000rpm and got pretty decent results with a 2 flute 3/16 endmill (i think) http://youtu.be/ke5Bb06FRaE
[01:52:55] <zeeshan> fenn: sweet
[01:52:58] <zeeshan> thats what i noticed
[01:53:01] <zeeshan> you gotta feed fast
[01:53:27] <zeeshan> fenn: what kind of mill is that
[01:53:43] <trentster> fenn thanks - I am feeding at 1250mm a minute - perhaps thats the issue
[01:53:58] <trentster> 1250mm + 8000 rpm
[01:55:20] <trentster> the other problem is I dont trust my spindle is doing the rpm I send it, when I send m3 s5000 vs m3 s12000 they sound remarkably similar
[01:55:34] <MrSunshine> isnt it max then ?
[01:55:55] <trentster> na its max is 12000
[01:56:04] <trentster> min I think is 5000 as its air cooled
[01:56:52] <MrSunshine> what spindle is it ?
[01:57:08] <MrSunshine> just out of curiousity =)
[01:57:16] <trentster> MrSunshine: embarassed to tell you ;-)
[01:57:29] <MrSunshine> i want to check the actual rpm on my china spindle .. said 24k rpm .. i wanna see how true that is =)
[01:58:01] <trentster> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ER11-400w-12000RPM-48V-Brushless-Spindle-Motor-PWM-Speed-Controller-/121406659783
[01:58:31] <trentster> I am saving up for a semi decent 2.2kw water cooled + vfd - but this little thing has sufficed thus far in the interim
[01:59:30] <MrSunshine> i bought 2.2kw air cooled ... would like water cooled but =)
[01:59:34] <trentster> I also think this crappy spindle controller is the source of power cycling back to breakout board.
[01:59:52] <MrSunshine> problem was that the first thing i had to do was to grind the 0.1mm runout out of the spindle ER cone ...
[02:00:19] <trentster> The other day I had an arduino I was testing with grbl and magically it stayed on when I pulled the usb cable and switched off the 5v power supply
[02:01:17] <MrSunshine> hehe =)
[02:01:50] <trentster> yah - I am not even going to attempt that precision of runout correction until I have cut my new gantry plates, just waiting for aluminium flat bar stock to arrive first
[02:03:19] <trentster> I am going to replicate this gantry design I really like it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad9daofnjR4
[02:04:17] <trentster> plus will add archivist recommended spines as well to it
[02:04:29] <archivist> spines?
[02:04:40] <archivist> webs
[02:04:44] <trentster> This guy uses bent steel plates as spines in his design but you need access to precision benders for that
[02:05:05] <archivist> spines are pointy
[02:05:07] <trentster> archivist: heh yeah I always get mixed up between spines , fins, webs etc
[02:05:19] <trentster> my spine is not pointy
[02:05:28] <trentster> at least no according to x-rays :P
[02:06:03] <zeeshan> wtf
[02:06:06] <zeeshan> he tapped those by hand
[02:06:27] <trentster> yeah - took him 2 days to do I think - thats patience
[02:06:32] <zeeshan> lol
[02:06:55] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSzNcZHYvj8
[02:06:59] <zeeshan> i just did this video a couple days ago
[02:07:11] <zeeshan> fwd to the end youll see the tapping
[02:07:48] <zeeshan> 15 sec / hole
[02:07:52] <trentster> you can see the bent steel webs he used here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s8dfMKvmJQ - I love that he made them orange - they look really nice!
[02:08:35] <trentster> zeeshan: drool _ would love a table like that - nice!
[02:09:02] <trentster> yeah I used to hand tap - until lazy got the better of me now use a drill 95% of the time
[02:09:19] <zeeshan> i still tap by hand
[02:09:23] <zeeshan> but cmon man 500+ holes
[02:09:26] <zeeshan> youre not gonna do that by hand!
[02:09:30] <zeeshan> 6 i understand
[02:09:39] <zeeshan> i dont know how that guy did it
[02:09:57] <trentster> the only thing wrong with your video is you are working in imperial and not metric
[02:10:08] <zeeshan> whats wrong with imperial
[02:10:10] <trentster> imperiel still dumbfounds me -
[02:10:27] <trentster> Metric makes sense - but then I am not American ;-)
[02:10:36] <archivist> he puts the web on the wrong side for max stiffness
[02:11:16] <trentster> hehe
[02:11:30] <zeeshan> i use si for engineering stuff
[02:11:42] <zeeshan> but i always convert to imperial cause they are more realistic units
[02:11:47] <zeeshan> like a meter is huge vs say an inch
[02:11:48] <trentster> zeeshan: out of interest what does the blank plate stock in your video cost in the US?
[02:11:48] <zeeshan> or a foot
[02:12:27] <trentster> zeeshan: thats what centimetre and millimetres are for ;-)
[02:13:05] <fenn> mm is the default unit for engineering
[02:13:17] <fenn> only physicists use meters
[02:13:30] <zeeshan> 12"x18"x.375" (304.8x457.2x9.53mm) 6061-t6 $58
[02:13:47] <zeeshan> (cad) which is ~61 aud
[02:14:12] <zeeshan> fenn: but even mm isn't a real unit
[02:14:19] <zeeshan> by real i mean "physical"
[02:14:21] <zeeshan> its tiny
[02:14:28] <trentster> zeeshan: I love your video really nice editing as well
[02:14:35] <zeeshan> thanks!
[02:15:10] <fenn> i find mm a lot easier to think about than fractions of an inch, and i was raised in america...
[02:15:27] <zeeshan> depends on what you worked on i guess?
[02:15:40] <zeeshan> it's only recently that i have a feel for 0.1 mm
[02:15:40] <fenn> not construction framing
[02:15:52] <zeeshan> but since i started with cars
[02:15:58] <zeeshan> most people dealt with "thou"
[02:16:08] <fenn> right, but that's not really a fraction
[02:16:13] <archivist> tenths!
[02:16:40] <zeeshan> fenn: oh you mean like when carpenters are like
[02:16:44] <zeeshan> make this 11 15/16
[02:16:45] <zeeshan> lol
[02:16:53] <zeeshan> i use mm in that case!
[02:17:28] <fenn> the problem is all the tape measures are in inches so you have to use inches anyway
[02:17:47] <zeeshan> whatcha mean
[02:17:51] <zeeshan> it has both
[02:17:58] <trentster> zeeshan I have a machinists precision steele setup table I picked up on ebay - you think it would be a good choice to ask someone to machine it as a table similar to your video?
[02:18:25] <zeeshan> trentster: how big is it?
[02:18:41] <trentster> just checking the size now
[02:18:52] <fenn> only the cheap dollar store tape measures have both, which is okay i guess, more tape measures is better
[02:19:41] <zeeshan> http://topprecision.com/images/luf%203.JPG
[02:19:46] <zeeshan> i have a couple of these
[02:19:52] <zeeshan> even though its so bright
[02:19:55] <zeeshan> i still lose the damn thing
[02:20:17] <fenn> what the hell is that
[02:20:19] <trentster> zeeshan not that big http://monosnap.com/image/KfYaCQUKMsZ1TUw5HGUIgdU4AfDWjg
[02:20:23] <fenn> decimal foot?
[02:20:31] <trentster> but aluminium stock costs a ton over here
[02:20:40] <trentster> may be worth using I dunno
[02:20:54] <zeeshan> fenn: lol i didnt notice the units
[02:20:54] <zeeshan> :(
[02:20:57] <zeeshan> wrong one
[02:21:25] <trentster> its small and heavy 610x310mm 22kg
[02:21:34] <zeeshan> trentster: aluminum might cost more, but i think you could machine it faster vs steel
[02:21:41] <trentster> Milling Machine Metal Lathe Engineers Table Marking Out Table
[02:21:47] <archivist> for when you must have a large digital vernier http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=vernier+peg
[02:22:04] <trentster> yeah there is no way I could machine that would have to get help with it
[02:22:18] <zeeshan> that table was for a friend, but i woulda charged around 225 to machine that table
[02:22:22] <zeeshan> do you have a mill?
[02:22:44] <automata> can we have controlled high deceleratio stop upon pressing the estop button?
[02:22:46] <zeeshan> 4 ft caliper
[02:22:46] <zeeshan> jeez
[02:22:50] <trentster> no a cnc router working area is about 600x700mm
[02:22:58] <zeeshan> how heavy is that archivist
[02:23:29] <automata> for larger machines, with high inertia, on estop the axis hits the end of travel on estop when in rapid moves
[02:23:37] <archivist> dunno was heavy carting it around after buying at the model engineer ex
[02:23:40] <trentster> zeeshan: I would consider buying it from you but shipping would be a killer
[02:23:58] <zeeshan> trentster: youre so close to china
[02:24:00] <zeeshan> grab one from there?
[02:24:43] <trentster> zeeshan: you wan't find that kind of thing out of China at least I have never seen any.
[02:24:56] <trentster> China tends to like to send small light items
[02:25:16] <trentster> heavy items like that are hard to come buy and the shipping even from china if you find it is really expensive
[02:25:16] <archivist> automata, fix your estop to brake rather than free run down
[02:26:50] <zeeshan> trentster: you could prolly do it on a drill press?
[02:26:59] <zeeshan> those hole placement can be out by 1/16"
[02:27:02] <zeeshan> and not make a big differnce
[02:27:12] <archivist> you can get tapping heads for drill presses
[02:28:31] <trentster> zeeshan: yeah - its more getting hold of the stock that is an issue here
[02:28:38] <archivist> http://tapmatic.com/products-page/self-reversing-manual-attachments
[02:28:47] <zeeshan> trentster: how much is a plate like that in australia?
[02:29:02] <zeeshan> im suprised it costs a lot there since a lot of aluminum comes from malaysia
[02:29:06] <zeeshan> which is close to you
[02:29:38] <archivist> they think it costs more but really its the au dolla value
[02:30:04] <trentster> nothing is cheap in Australia they have an isolated captive market.
[02:30:46] <archivist> used http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENGINEERS-ARCHER-NO-1-TAPPING-HEAD-/381333913214
[02:30:49] <trentster> to give you an idea 12mm X 160mm flat alumium bar here costs about $120 a metre
[02:31:20] <trentster> double what you paid for your whole plate
[02:31:41] <archivist> convert your dollars to us dollars
[02:31:53] <archivist> to get a proper comparison
[02:32:04] <zeeshan> archivist: how dare you call my dollars us dollars
[02:32:05] <zeeshan> !!
[02:32:31] <zeeshan> archivist: do you brits use euros?????????
[02:32:35] * zeeshan hides
[02:32:46] <fenn> zeeshan: am i imagining this or when drilling the table does it skip the right-most column of holes on the first pass and then successfully drills them on the second pass of center drilling? and it seems to skip a couple holes apparently at random
[02:33:00] <fenn> in the router table machining video
[02:33:17] <zeeshan> i chjanged the code
[02:33:24] <zeeshan> i talk about it in the vid
[02:33:45] <zeeshan> first time i missed the column of holes , editted code and then missed random holes
[02:33:47] <zeeshan> haha
[02:33:49] <zeeshan> fml
[02:34:00] <archivist> talk, quietly mentions it as an aside :)
[02:35:14] <archivist> funny how currency differences make prices seem high/low in places, also sales taxes vary widely
[02:35:49] <archivist> some are inclusive some hidden and added later
[02:35:56] <trentster> ok its $128 AUD +10% Tax for a .047inch X 6.3inch X 39.3Inch aluminium flat bar. which works out to USD $99
[02:36:07] <trentster> nice cand cheap huh?
[02:36:15] <trentster> :P
[02:36:43] <fenn> foundry makes making mistakes more fun
[02:36:49] <fenn> just toss it back in the pot
[02:37:41] <automata> archivist: X Y motors dont have brakes
[02:38:32] <automata> how would we do that in a pulse and direction servo setup or even in an analog servo setup without brakes
[02:43:01] <zeeshan> archivist: how much was that caliper?
[02:45:19] <archivist> zeeshan, 30 quid iirc
[02:45:31] <zeeshan> wow :p
[02:45:53] <archivist> not a lot of use at 1/4" resolution
[02:46:02] <zeeshan> hah
[02:46:07] <zeeshan> thats worse than a measuring tape!
[02:46:19] <zeeshan> i wonder what they used it for
[02:48:53] <archivist> automata, see if the servo drive has provision for putting a braking resistor across the motor on estop
[02:53:07] <fenn> you could combine it with a feeler gauge for finer resolution
[02:53:45] <archivist> I dont think it is up to feeler accuracy :)
[02:53:51] <fenn> oh too bad
[02:53:57] <zeeshan> big ass too!
[02:55:02] <archivist> it was a measuring tool in a box... had to have, no use for it other than the "fun" of trying to find out about it
[02:55:29] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Inch-Caliper-Mitutoyo-Stainless-Steel-Cm-Made-in-Japan-welding-tool-measure-/191635084224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9e5753c0
[02:55:31] <zeeshan> that isnt a bad price
[02:55:46] <automata> checking on that... but that still is an uncontrolled stop
[02:55:52] <zeeshan> looks a bit chewed up
[02:56:20] <archivist> automata, it is a lot faster stop
[02:56:39] <automata> yes that is true...
[02:58:12] <just_pink> *Little "Play" in the moving piece.
[02:58:54] <archivist> play is adjustable
[03:00:12] <just_pink> archivist: on some oftham you have brass sliders with set screws
[03:00:47] <just_pink> but if the play is front to back you cant do anything.
[03:01:58] <just_pink> internet problems..
[03:02:26] <just_pink> archivist: you get my text?
[03:02:37] <archivist> because front/rear play is an order of magnitude less of a problem
[03:03:07] <archivist> we saw * just_pink has quit (Quit: Page closed)
[03:03:21] <archivist> you did not miss anything
[03:03:53] <just_pink> the page is open
[03:04:03] <just_pink> but It get frozen
[03:04:16] <just_pink> so i refresh it
[03:04:50] <archivist> use a real client on your pc, what most of us do
[03:05:21] <just_pink> I like the web based more
[03:05:53] <just_pink> I have also a client but in the brouwser it's fine for me
[03:08:20] <archivist> I dont drop out unless there is a real reason, stays working for weeks/months
[03:09:07] <just_pink> here is easy
[03:17:49] <Dee_jay> moin
[03:18:03] <just_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eltee-PULSITRON-Electrical-Discharge-Machine-EDM-Sinker-EP30-/261591053189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce80ab385
[03:19:45] <just_pink> this is one of the best
[03:19:51] <just_pink> http://9gag.com/gag/aBrx00N/i-need-these-stickers-for-reasons
[03:21:31] <Loetmichel> just_pink: awesome would be if the would WORK ;)
[03:31:47] <Deejay> hrhr
[03:36:12] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTPDSMpz8pk
[03:36:33] <just_pink> my next cnc project
[03:37:53] <trentster> zeeshan: what kind of cutting oil do you use when you drill and tap those plates?
[03:45:36] <just_pink> trentster: cutting oil for what?
[03:46:39] <trentster> drilling and tapping aluminium sheet
[03:47:00] <trentster> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSzNcZHYvj8
[03:50:24] <just_pink> trentster: I'm using the cutting oil from HF
[03:50:26] <zeeshan> rapid tap
[03:50:34] <just_pink> Ithink it's CRC
[03:50:47] <trentster> thanks
[03:50:52] <zeeshan> trentster: if youre looking to buy something for aluminum specifically
[03:51:01] <zeeshan> use A-9
[03:51:07] <zeeshan> its by the same company (realton)
[03:51:09] <zeeshan> relton
[03:51:29] <trentster> zeeshan: just watched your laser cutting acrylic video
[03:51:40] <zeeshan> trentster: hehe
[03:51:48] <zeeshan> that isn't my machine
[03:51:48] <trentster> now I want one - was that a bought machine or a own buikld?
[03:51:51] <zeeshan> its the school machine
[03:52:00] <zeeshan> i was TAing for students
[03:52:03] <zeeshan> helping them build their projects
[03:52:33] <trentster> the laser looks super compact
[03:52:40] <zeeshan> it is
[03:52:53] <zeeshan> lemme see if i can find a pic of the area i was working in
[03:53:06] <trentster> normally the ones I have seen have tons of heatsinks on the side and are rather big with active fans
[03:53:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/3lLdqHE.jpg
[03:53:38] <zeeshan> i build that using that cutter
[03:53:41] <zeeshan> during the spare time
[03:53:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/N2MkR7j.jpg
[03:53:52] <zeeshan> haha
[03:54:11] <trentster> I assume the periodic explosions as its cutting is the smke getting in the way and getting vaporized?
[03:54:18] <trentster> *smoke
[03:54:21] <zeeshan> yes
[03:54:28] <zeeshan> i cant find a pic of the lab area
[03:54:37] <zeeshan> but its really small the cutter
[03:54:41] <zeeshan> it has an air filtration system next to it
[03:55:30] <zeeshan> https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8647/16158458864_83855f907d_k.jpg
[03:55:31] <zeeshan> found it
[03:55:35] <trentster> I didnt realize little lasers like that could cut acrylic so effectively it being transparent and all
[03:55:35] <zeeshan> its the red thing
[03:55:54] <Deejay> whee :)
[03:55:54] <zeeshan> you can use the chair as a comparison to get a size idea
[03:58:03] <trentster> nice shop its pretty tiny
[03:58:21] <zeeshan> one they it'll dissapear from there
[03:58:25] <zeeshan> and magically appear in my home shop!
[03:58:26] <trentster> I may have a go at building a DIY one - especially if I can source a laser like that
[03:58:36] <zeeshan> yea i dont think you need anything special
[03:58:43] <zeeshan> 40
[03:58:46] <zeeshan> as long as you got the right optics
[03:58:58] <zeeshan> it's pretty insane how quickly it cuts things
[03:59:01] <trentster> he he - its the work place to home place migration plan
[03:59:04] <zeeshan> it'd take me 10x more time doing it on a mill
[03:59:11] <archivist> and do it in a flameproof room
[03:59:13] <trentster> happens so slowly no-one sees the transition happen
[03:59:24] <zeeshan> trentster: we had a member here burn his house down with a laser cutter
[03:59:26] <zeeshan> so be careful!
[03:59:28] <zeeshan> and take it seriously
[03:59:41] <zeeshan> he walked away for a sandwich and within 5 min it was up in flames
[03:59:45] <zeeshan> (thats what he said)
[04:00:08] <trentster> yeah - trust me I already stuffed up my eyes with lasers. I am ultra careful and mindful of them now
[04:00:25] <trentster> id rather burn the house than lose my eyesight tho
[04:00:31] <zeeshan> hehe
[04:00:33] <trentster> if there was a choice :P
[04:01:08] <trentster> googling for laser cutting heads now - zeeshan all your fault!
[04:01:12] <zeeshan> haha
[04:01:25] <zeeshan> if you want more help with building one
[04:01:27] <zeeshan> ssi is the guy to talk to
[04:02:00] * Loetmichel has a 2W UV laser diode with optics laying around... sometimes in the future i will stuff my CNC mill with that ;)
[04:02:16] <zeeshan> what can 2 w cut?
[04:02:20] <zeeshan> cardboard?
[04:02:24] <Loetmichel> but mostly for PCB exposure, not for cutting
[04:02:28] <zeeshan> ah
[04:02:32] <just_pink> zeeshan: this is a jet engine on the right??
[04:02:32] <Loetmichel> up to 4mm plywood can be cut
[04:02:41] <trentster> and the machien has a print driver you go directly from illustrator to it, which is pretty convenient
[04:02:53] <Loetmichel> or the three mm pvc foam
[04:03:07] <zeeshan> just_pink: that is the smaller wind tunnel
[04:03:32] <zeeshan> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7599/16160843563_dc50b272de_k.jpg
[04:03:37] <zeeshan> this one is the daddy wind tunnel
[04:03:42] <just_pink> why do you have wind tunnel at home???
[04:03:44] <zeeshan> whoever built that bell mouth did an amazing job
[04:03:50] <zeeshan> this isn't my home
[04:03:51] <zeeshan> lol
[04:04:15] <zeeshan> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7599/16160843563_dc50b272de_k.jpg
[04:04:18] <zeeshan> this is my home
[04:04:19] <trentster> Loetmichel: is a cnc mill suitable for a laser head ? doesent the laser have to really zip around fast?
[04:04:25] <zeeshan> whoops
[04:04:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2PU86Wl.jpg
[04:04:30] <trentster> needs very fast feed rates
[04:05:14] <archivist> car has to go
[04:05:20] <zeeshan> no!
[04:05:23] <Loetmichel> trenster: depends on its power
[04:05:30] <Loetmichel> and the material to cut
[04:05:34] <trentster> zeeshan: awesome and drool worthy
[04:05:38] <Loetmichel> btw: my mill can do F4800
[04:05:44] <Loetmichel> so not quite THAT slow ;)
[04:05:57] <just_pink> zeeshan: look very nice
[04:06:04] <trentster> you just need to setup central ducting for vacum cyclone extractor and you are all set there.
[04:06:17] <zeeshan> i have a fan
[04:06:19] <zeeshan> top right in the pic
[04:06:37] <trentster> Loetmichel: I bow my head in apology most mills I have seen can not do near those speeds ;-)
[04:06:41] <trentster> impressive
[04:06:43] <zeeshan> with the garage door open it pretty much removes the entire garage's volume of air every 5 min
[04:07:08] <zeeshan> what i need is a real cnc lathe
[04:07:24] <Loetmichel> trentster: i usually drive it with F1200 thru aluminium
[04:07:34] <zeeshan> what is F?
[04:07:44] <trentster> feedrate
[04:07:49] <zeeshan> oh youre talking in mm/min
[04:07:52] <trentster> Loetmichel: what mill is it?
[04:07:54] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWTTP0RomA0
[04:08:01] <Loetmichel> chinese CNC 6040
[04:08:05] <Loetmichel> ... a bit "tuned"
[04:08:25] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: is that a vacuum table
[04:08:40] <trentster> Loetmichel: your own build?
[04:08:52] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: yes
[04:08:58] <zeeshan> nice machine dude
[04:08:59] <Loetmichel> trentster: no, bought
[04:09:00] <trentster> very nice - but looks more like a router to me than a mill
[04:09:11] <Loetmichel> it is a router
[04:09:14] <trentster> 6040?
[04:09:34] <zeeshan> it has to be a good machine
[04:09:36] <Loetmichel> ~600mm by ~400mm by 80mm travel
[04:09:40] <zeeshan> cause he's not snapping that dinky little end mill
[04:09:40] <zeeshan> !!
[04:09:47] <zeeshan> you need like absolutely no runoutt
[04:09:53] <zeeshan> to stop em from snapping
[04:10:06] <Loetmichel> runout is about 0,02mm
[04:10:13] <trentster> yeah especially if its carbide it has almost zero give
[04:10:18] <Loetmichel> soi suitable for down to 0,4mm mill bits ,)
[04:10:29] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: im impressed
[04:10:33] <Loetmichel> tried that ,)
[04:10:38] <Loetmichel> but its not THAT rigid
[04:11:02] <Loetmichel> so with the 2mm mill bit i am restricted to about 0,2mm depth of cut or it will dig in at 12mm/s
[04:11:07] <Loetmichel> 1200mm/min
[04:11:10] <trentster> Loetmichel: is it a 3040 model router?
[04:11:13] <Loetmichel> feedrate
[04:11:17] <Loetmichel> 6040
[04:11:26] <trentster> I meant 6040
[04:11:30] <Loetmichel> yes
[04:11:41] <Loetmichel> there is a better vid:
[04:11:42] <trentster> seems pretty sturdy - but you are only cutting very thin stock there.
[04:11:50] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY
[04:12:00] <trentster> did you throw out the chinese electronics and replace with decent stuff?
[04:12:20] <Loetmichel> as i said: it can cut AlMg3 to 0,2mm depth each turn
[04:12:24] <Loetmichel> full cut
[04:12:44] <Loetmichel> no, but i upped the transformer voltage to 32V from 24V ;)
[04:12:53] <Loetmichel> which makes it a bit faster
[04:13:02] <Loetmichel> and replaced all motor couplings
[04:13:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14193 <- because the original ones broke
[04:13:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15011 <- runs a LOT smoother with the rubber ones ;)
[04:14:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- pic of the full machine ;)
[04:15:07] <trentster> Loetmichel: I like the table that comes with it, fwiw my frankenstein hackintosh machine can do .4mm depth of cut pretty easily so you could probably go a bit deeper if you wanted your machine looks pretty solid.
[04:15:26] <Loetmichel> table?
[04:15:42] <trentster> tslot table
[04:15:44] <Loetmichel> ah
[04:15:50] <Loetmichel> i never use that
[04:15:59] <Loetmichel> i have a vaccum table bolted on there ;)
[04:16:03] <trentster> isnt your spolier attached to it?
[04:16:19] <trentster> I mean vacuum
[04:16:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14682&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[04:16:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14685&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[04:16:37] <trentster> that vac didnt come witht he machien tho right? that you bought seperately or made?
[04:16:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14688&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[04:16:52] <Loetmichel> its made
[04:17:16] <Loetmichel> out of 20mm pvc sheet for the base and 8mm pvc sheet for the spoiler
[04:17:32] <Loetmichel> and some few thousand drills ;)
[04:18:10] <trentster> Loetmichel: funny I have the exact same couplings mine also broke - but I had spares. I recently ordered the same spider couplings you got there, the red ones, havent used them yet, they still in the draw.
[04:18:23] <trentster> but probably should replace the others before they break again
[04:18:30] <Loetmichel> do it
[04:18:43] <Loetmichel> machine runs a lot smoother with the spider couplings
[04:19:21] <trentster> yeah - they are definitely a ton stronger
[04:19:59] <Loetmichel> not only that: they can even out some torque peaks
[04:20:03] <Loetmichel> because steppers ;)=
[04:20:21] <Loetmichel> the spider itself is made of a "rubbery" plastic
[04:20:31] <Loetmichel> so they can "spring" a bit in there
[04:20:46] <Loetmichel> and decouple the rattle of the steppers from the ballscrews
[04:21:36] <trentster> ok - I will swap mine out - I have to install a new breakout board anyway
[04:21:57] <trentster> the spindle that came with the machine - has it behaved without issue?
[04:23:15] <trentster> I also bought a USB microscope to mount on my machine and to overlay crosshairs.
[04:23:33] <trentster> your cnc camera has convinced me its time to machine a mount for it
[04:23:57] <trentster> and write a script to work out the offset for edge finding
[04:27:29] <fenn> i would want a view of the whole machine too and sound, if actually running it in a different room
[04:28:16] <trentster> fenn: I am not brave enough to leave a machine unattended
[04:28:22] <fenn> me either
[04:28:25] <trentster> at least not my machine
[04:28:41] <fenn> 3d printer maybe
[04:29:46] <trentster> This is what I want it for
[04:29:49] <trentster> http://beatty-robotics.com/zeroing-a-cnc/
[04:31:14] <fenn> well i guess it's easier than building a touch probe
[04:31:15] <trentster> Just need to figure out in linuxcnc what to use for video and how to overlay crosshairs
[04:31:23] <fenn> mplayer
[04:31:56] <trentster> then write an offset script - but I am sure there is one floating around on the net already
[04:32:32] <trentster> touchprobe is nice as well - but this is fast and involves zero tools
[04:34:21] <fenn> i think gcode doesn't let you do coordinate transforms (only angle offsets) so you still need to make sure the piece is squared up
[04:34:44] <fenn> or do it further up the cam toolchain
[04:35:00] <trentster> fenn: no I plan to just use it to reset zero
[04:35:06] <Loetmichel> trentster: the sondle has behaved without the slightest issue
[04:35:26] <Loetmichel> the CNC camera is pure lazyness
[04:35:29] <trentster> the tool will always be exactly the same disatnace from the spindle bit center
[04:35:49] <Loetmichel> so i can watch it from the office without having to endure the noise of the vacuum and the machine ;)
[04:36:01] <trentster> Loetmichel: sometimes "pure lazyness" is my middle name just ask my wife ;-)
[04:36:16] <trentster> especially when it comes to beer delivery
[04:36:42] <trentster> Loetmichel: Sondle?
[04:36:57] <Loetmichel> fenn: i can hear the machine thru the closed doors of the workshop from the office
[04:37:09] <Loetmichel> trentster: spindle. i have soasage fingers ;)
[04:37:12] <Loetmichel> sausage
[04:38:08] <trentster> Loetmichel: you said "the sondle has behaved without the slightest issue"
[04:38:40] <trentster> aah spindle cool
[04:38:43] <Loetmichel> you asked if the spindle has behaved. it has ;)
[04:38:58] <trentster> thought you were talking about another magical device I needed to know about
[04:39:01] <Loetmichel> <. makes a lot of typos ;)
[04:39:34] <fenn> looks like doing a g-code coordinate transform to match the part alignment was discussed in 2009 but never went anywhere? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystemRotation
[04:40:09] <trentster> fenn: darn! so its not easily do-able then?
[04:40:16] <Loetmichel> fenn: i only use the usb microscope as a "optical mill bit breakage detector"
[04:40:42] <trentster> come on guys crosshairs on anything is kinda cool
[04:40:45] <Loetmichel> for zeroing in i scratch the surface ot the sheet metal
[04:40:50] <Loetmichel> which works well
[04:40:55] <trentster> you get to feel like a sniper every time you use your machine :P
[04:40:57] <Loetmichel> even when using remote access ;)
[04:41:16] <Loetmichel> did you see the vid?
[04:41:28] <fenn> it's just a matrix multiply so it's not rocket science, the problem is coming up with a g-code syntax that isn't subtly different from every other g-code syntax out there
[04:41:57] <trentster> Loetmichel: this one "Cnc cam remote operate final"
[04:42:08] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKHPsJtZlc <- milling some 2,5mm holes with a 2mm mill bit... too lazy to do a tool change ;)
[04:42:11] <Loetmichel> yes
[04:42:48] <trentster> yeah saw that - you get a bravery medal - I could not do that ;-)
[04:42:59] <Loetmichel> why?
[04:43:27] <trentster> too scared need to be there , incae something goes wrong, apply lubrication, vacuum.
[04:43:37] <trentster> maybe when my machien is in better shape
[04:43:57] <trentster> not now! - it would be like leaving a pitbull alone with an infant!
[04:44:17] <just_pink> someone know about the voltage for bezzer?
[04:44:21] <Loetmichel> i think THAT was more bravery... holding the workpiece in plae by hand ;-) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6-YwG9dv7A
[04:44:22] <trentster> potential dire consequences
[04:44:28] <just_pink> CET12A3.5
[04:46:59] <Loetmichel> trentster: i got my thubb holed by a 3mm mill bit already.. cant get much worse than that ;)
[04:47:16] <trentster> thumb?
[04:47:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958 <- including the bone ;)
[04:47:30] <Loetmichel> thumb ;-)
[04:47:33] <trentster> omg
[04:47:42] <trentster> :-O
[04:48:06] <trentster> dumb question but what did it feel like?
[04:48:14] <trentster> was it painful immediately?
[04:48:26] <Loetmichel> at 24kRPM a 2 flute carbide is SO fast thru the thumb that it didnt hurt at all
[04:48:40] <trentster> how did you manage that?
[04:48:42] <Loetmichel> "why am i locked to the machine now? OH CRAP"
[04:48:54] <trentster> no wonder you prefer not to be in the same room as the machine :P
[04:49:34] <trentster> I would also put a remote cam on there after that - and move machine into neighbours garage
[04:49:48] <Loetmichel> milled a LARGE pice of wood. changed the workpiece with running spindle... opened the vice and the wood beam "angled" out, pressing my thumb into the mill bit
[04:50:02] <Loetmichel> as always: user error
[04:50:14] <fenn> wow lucky you missed the nail bed
[04:50:34] <trentster> classic PICNIC error then :-)
[04:50:50] <Loetmichel> i DO press f9 now to stop the spindle before changing workpices
[04:50:55] <Loetmichel> picnic?
[04:51:12] <trentster> Problem In Chair Not In Computer
[04:51:25] <Loetmichel> ah, you mean PEBKAC
[04:51:41] <trentster> its a variant of PEBKAC
[04:51:47] <Loetmichel> "problem exists between keayboard and chair"
[04:51:49] <trentster> pebkac to widely know now :P
[04:52:13] <Loetmichel> you mean the I D ten T error ;)
[04:52:24] <trentster> heh he yeah
[04:52:39] <Loetmichel> fenn: i dindt
[04:52:46] <trentster> you lucky you still have use of your thumb
[04:52:48] <Loetmichel> the lai is growing now a bit different
[04:53:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2961
[04:53:07] <Loetmichel> nail
[04:53:08] <trentster> if that hit the joint it would be goodbye thumb
[04:53:40] <Loetmichel> that thum has to take the heat always
[04:53:51] <Loetmichel> i even sawed off a bit on the bandsaw...
[04:54:04] <trentster> When I built my cnc from scratch I had never so much as used a drillpress before.
[04:54:08] <Loetmichel> (caution, some blood:) http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11136
[04:54:45] <trentster> Bought a magnetic drill press and an ex machining works pressure plate to pount it to as a DIY press.
[04:55:06] <trentster> no one told me not a good idea to wear gloves when using a drill press.
[04:55:14] <Loetmichel> harhar
[04:55:24] <Loetmichel> learning by doing (it wrong)
[04:56:11] <XXCoder> boo
[04:56:56] <trentster> day 5 into the build after switching drill press off - was still slowly turning with inertia - leant forward to wipe some dust off part and drill caught glove, curled my whole hand into the drill press and had enough energy to pull press plus engineer table and press into my lap
[04:57:07] <trentster> finger still does not work right
[04:57:33] <trentster> it does not straighten in the morning for a good 10 minutes until it warms up.
[04:57:45] <trentster> old age is gonna be fun to deal with.
[04:58:10] <XXCoder> I'm mostly fine besides fun issues I was born with
[04:58:24] <XXCoder> I found out I had arthitis on back when I was 27
[04:58:30] <XXCoder> that was 12 years ago lol
[04:58:51] <XXCoder> and yes, old age gonna be fun
[04:58:55] <trentster> This is what the drill press was magnetically attached to which got pulled into my lap via my finger http://monosnap.com/image/ZhlDLjO1TXeZKXllQI4G1QOTI82jsh
[04:59:05] <trentster> Now I have respect for torque
[04:59:11] <trentster> :P
[05:00:28] <trentster> that Lathe press weighs almost the same as my wife
[05:00:58] <XXCoder> troque is king
[05:00:58] <just_pink> Loetmichel: my G0704 for sale
[05:01:05] <XXCoder> mass too
[05:01:31] <XXCoder> monoisnap requires program to view.
[05:02:06] <fenn> there's a text box with a .png url in it that you can copy/paste to see the image
[05:02:14] <XXCoder> yeah just found it
[05:02:57] <fenn> the fake drop-down notification is pretty lame
[05:03:15] <just_pink> If something like that will happan to my nails....
[05:03:23] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:03:31] <just_pink> I think it's better to sell it..
[05:03:32] <trentster> but after seeing Loetmichel thumb I count myself lucky :P even tho he probably does not have any permanent damage
[05:03:33] <XXCoder> fenn: funny because its for windows
[05:04:03] <XXCoder> just_pink: why selling G0704?
[05:04:23] <trentster> XXCoder: yeah torque is kind for sure!
[05:04:32] <XXCoder> kind king ;)
[05:04:56] <trentster> best way to teach someone what torque is - is to let them get a glove caught in a drill press that is powered off yet still slowly turning
[05:05:40] <XXCoder> I wouldn't mind having a G0704 but cnt afford one atm lol
[05:08:25] <Spida> CaptHindsight: a few days ago when I asked about milling foam, you suggested to pour my own foam instead of milling it. did you try this process, or do you have any references worth reading?
[05:10:38] <just_pink> XXCoder: It was a joke.. (I just looooove my nails sooo much)
[05:11:00] <XXCoder> lol ok
[05:12:06] <just_pink> XXCoder: I've cut them down to more than half the length.
[05:12:33] <Loetmichel> just_pink: i once was asked by a girlfriend if i was in war. because ot the various scars i have around my body ;)
[05:12:47] <Loetmichel> ... nothing serious tho, everything healed quite well ;)
[05:13:04] <Loetmichel> s/ot/of
[05:13:44] <just_pink> I have also lots of scars on my hands..
[05:14:03] <XXCoder> same
[05:15:12] <just_pink> thay really small..
[05:16:21] <Loetmichel> i once tested: you CAN cut with an xacto knife right to the bone on your thigh....
[05:16:31] <Loetmichel> and that takes a while to heal ;)
[05:16:34] <XXCoder> tested
[05:16:59] <trentster> haha
[05:17:03] <Loetmichel> <- was cutting some cardboard on my lap, and the plywood sheet i had under it moved...
[05:17:31] <Valen> that seems like a bad plan
[05:17:40] <Loetmichel> resulting in a 15cm long scar ,)
[05:18:04] <Valen> at least it'd be neat I guess
[05:18:11] <trentster> You were just testing your body healing capacity
[05:18:12] <just_pink> OMG..
[05:18:23] <XXCoder> my worse is lighting scar on my forehead
[05:18:24] <Loetmichel> yeah, those knifes are sharp as a scalpel ;)
[05:18:34] <XXCoder> something about some loser that cant be named trying to kill me
[05:18:38] <XXCoder> kidding
[05:18:53] <trentster> XXCoder: seriously you been struck by lightning?
[05:19:04] <trentster> you think you are harry potter or something?
[05:19:17] <XXCoder> trentster: read again lol
[05:19:42] <trentster> aaah - heh lol
[05:19:54] <trentster> funny how brain interprets words
[05:20:11] <XXCoder> seriously though I once got nail though my hand and it got out sideways.
[05:20:17] <XXCoder> just glad it wasnt between bones
[05:20:25] <Loetmichel> easy
[05:20:36] <Loetmichel> once kicked a wooden board in two
[05:20:45] <Loetmichel> missed the 12" nail in it
[05:20:54] <just_pink> http://new4.fjcdn.com/pictures/When_8639b2_2841271.jpg
[05:21:06] <trentster> We should do a CNC war story Poll in here I am sure there must be tons of war and horror stories - folks in here liking heavy machinery and all
[05:21:07] <just_pink> this is happan to me all the time.^
[05:21:40] <Loetmichel> ... went into the calf and out the other side... pulled the rusty nail out and walked 1.2 km to the hospital...
[05:21:45] <trentster> just_pink: thats funny - bookmarking
[05:22:25] <Loetmichel> "nurse, i have a slight problem there... " *watching the blood puddle around my left foot grow*... *passing out*
[05:22:32] <trentster> Loetmichel: A real man would not even have bothered to go to the hospital for a little thing like that - I mean come on!
[05:22:44] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: nasty.
[05:23:52] <Loetmichel> i was told later i have lost approx 1 liter of blood on the way
[05:24:14] <Loetmichel> The walk shouldnt have been a lot longer ;-)
[05:24:30] <XXCoder> shouldnt have pulled nail out
[05:24:46] <Loetmichel> you cant walk with a nail thru your calf muscle
[05:24:48] <trentster> At least you had a trail to find your way back home
[05:24:52] <XXCoder> there i9s this specific bandaging style to hold nail and hold in blood
[05:24:53] <trentster> :P
[05:25:03] <XXCoder> youre not supposed to walk with it
[05:25:08] <just_pink> Loetmichel: if you will keep this way you will become a cyborg
[05:25:09] <Loetmichel> i was alone
[05:25:25] <Loetmichel> and it was before the invention of cellphones ;)
[05:25:31] <trentster> erm Loetmichel isnt that what 911 is for?
[05:25:41] <trentster> aah ok no phone
[05:25:49] <trentster> man that sucks!
[05:26:06] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:26:08] <Loetmichel> so the hospital was nearer than the next phone booth ;)
[05:26:50] <just_pink> trentster: 911 is for emergency you miss that part <Loetmichel> "nurse, i have a slight problem there... "
[05:26:59] <trentster> hehe
[05:27:07] <Loetmichel> last thing i remember is the nurses eyes grow wide ;)
[05:27:17] <trentster> I have a splinter in my leg
[05:27:25] <XXCoder> did you try to bandage in least?
[05:27:31] <Loetmichel> no
[05:27:48] <Loetmichel> i was out in the woods builing a small treehouse
[05:27:56] <Loetmichel> no bandages handy there
[05:27:58] <trentster> worst part of this story is you never took any photos for us to see
[05:28:08] <Loetmichel> as i said: it was in my youth
[05:28:16] <Loetmichel> no cellphones.> no pics ;)
[05:28:25] <trentster> I am kidding of course!
[05:28:30] <Loetmichel> the scar is still there tho
[05:28:32] <trentster> Thats a hardcore story
[05:30:41] <trentster> Loetmichel: you ever notice in your thumb x-ray it looks like the Dr is about to machine a mini dust extractor tool path right over your thumb?
[05:31:01] <trentster> it reminds me of the part I am designing for spindle mount
[05:32:50] <Loetmichel> trentster: the red thing?
[05:33:02] <Loetmichel> i plnted that into it to symbolize the 3mm mill bit
[05:33:40] <Loetmichel> just_pink: btw: in germany its 112, not 911 ;)
[05:33:56] <just_pink> the thing that I'm really hate about the machin all the cutting oil and the solvent make my hand dry.
[05:34:00] <trentster> Loetmichel: yeah
[05:34:26] <Loetmichel> just_pink: i dont use cuttin oil
[05:34:49] <Loetmichel> just a pump spray bottle of a mix of water and IPA and a dash of soap
[05:34:50] <XXCoder> hey hey hey stop cutting oil!
[05:34:52] <XXCoder> heh
[05:35:10] <just_pink> IPA?
[05:35:16] <Loetmichel> MUCH easier to clean the parts afterwards
[05:35:23] <Loetmichel> Isopropyl alcohol
[05:35:26] <XXCoder> wd40 worked for me
[05:35:39] <XXCoder> used it a lot when I worked at router dept at old work
[05:36:19] <trentster> ok I definately need to build a laser cutter this is just too cool! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qF8dHQPy6o
[05:36:47] <XXCoder> I want it too
[05:37:34] <trentster> Anyone know of a good place to source a precision laser like that?
[05:37:43] <trentster> not the machine just the laser?
[05:37:52] <XXCoder> if yoi know how to rebuild one, chinese machine
[05:37:58] <XXCoder> because it WILL arrive half working
[05:38:32] <trentster> heh I have never seen a chinese laser that looked like that - they are all these chunky black box things
[05:42:57] <XXCoder> heh if I had machine build skills I'd have bought one by now
[05:43:35] <XXCoder> whaaa
[05:43:37] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500mW-Desktop-DIY-Laser-Engraver-Engraving-Machine-Picture-CNC-Printer/32361117206.html?s=p
[05:43:42] <XXCoder> way cheaper than I expected
[05:43:43] <trentster> ok its a CO2 laser no wonder it works so well
[05:43:56] <XXCoder> theres project to build one
[05:43:58] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: CNC machine building is easy
[05:43:58] <XXCoder> looks very harfd
[05:44:03] <Loetmichel> once o did a few
[05:44:04] <XXCoder> but very cheap
[05:44:23] <Loetmichel> thats my 6th or so: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[05:44:33] <trentster> laser cutter is easiest cnc to build
[05:44:47] <XXCoder> loet what is easy to you isnt nesscarily easy for me :D
[05:44:54] <XXCoder> yeah I remember that machine
[05:45:12] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: hence the exeption of "once you did a few"
[05:45:13] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[05:45:26] <XXCoder> lol yea
[05:45:43] <trentster> Loetmichel: whats your latest revision look like?
[05:45:43] <XXCoder> jeeeez
[05:45:53] <XXCoder> theres laser printer that is huge but $1
[05:45:58] <XXCoder> shipping $12,662
[05:45:58] <Loetmichel> trentster: a lot smaller
[05:46:03] <XXCoder> well duh lol
[05:46:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[05:47:07] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100mw-Desktop-mini-laser-CNC-engraving-carving-mechine/2009274668.html
[05:47:10] <XXCoder> 137 shipped lol
[05:49:06] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/focusable-real-3W-808nm-laser-diode-module-wood-carving-CNC-cut-9V-input/32396627513.html not bad
[05:49:11] <XXCoder> just use it on my router
[05:49:36] <Loetmichel> trentster: better pic: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[05:50:21] <Loetmichel> now i have to go to work
[05:50:28] <Loetmichel> its already after dinner break ;)
[05:50:36] <XXCoder> wow thats huge. lol
[05:50:45] <XXCoder> big difference in size
[05:50:49] <XXCoder> later
[05:51:31] <trentster> XXCoder: http://www.banggood.com/500mW-Desktop-DIY-Violet-Laser-Engraving-Machine-Picture-CNC-Printer-p-969324.html
[05:51:57] <trentster> probably not bad if you put a decent laser on it
[05:52:13] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:52:31] <trentster> Loetmichel: nice - where did you get t-track table from?
[05:54:10] <XXCoder> http://notalwaysworking.com/failed-question-number-one/39559
[05:54:23] * XXCoder facepalms
[05:54:58] <trentster> Loetmichel: I have spindle envy! - and what type of motor you got on the Z axis there, looks very compact and sealed I assume a servo?
[05:55:12] <XXCoder> he left to work
[05:55:38] <trentster> thanks - I missed that message
[05:55:57] <XXCoder> np
[05:56:14] <XXCoder> laser is great for building puzzles or layered statues
[05:56:45] <trentster> xxcoder thats funny "failed question number one"
[05:56:52] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:57:22] <trentster> I want something that can cut acrylic at least 7mm
[05:57:50] <XXCoder> 1/4" thick not bad
[06:02:12] <trentster> which will probably be expensive
[06:02:18] <trentster> baby laser wont do that
[06:02:22] <XXCoder> dunno
[06:02:41] <XXCoder> all you relaly need is laser module, if you has existing cnc router
[06:02:54] <XXCoder> mill probably will work if large enough
[06:03:42] <trentster> yup
[06:05:21] <XXCoder> https://hackaday.io/project/1023-low-cost-co2-laser-build
[06:05:29] <XXCoder> pvc co2 laser
[06:10:33] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered about setting up a general purpose laser test bench.
[06:10:41] <SpeedEvil> Including heating to ~600C or so.
[06:10:53] <XXCoder> its virtually free if you has lots pvc and hardware stuff
[06:10:53] <SpeedEvil> Copper vapour seems like fun
[06:11:01] <XXCoder> only few stuff is bit harder
[06:11:13] <SpeedEvil> Glass tube of small diameter is inexpensive
[06:12:54] <XXCoder> cool
[06:16:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T4-Fluorescent-Tube-Bulb-6W-10W-16W-20W-25W-30W-for-Under-Shelf-Lighting-4000K-/121288218354?var=&hash=item1c3d5756f2
[06:17:05] <XXCoder> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/2/6/4/431264_v1.jpg
[06:17:06] <SpeedEvil> 30W = 600mm
[06:17:58] <XXCoder> Mecury would have to be carefully removed and cleaned
[06:18:02] <SpeedEvil> Err - 'galaxy far far away' - unless you nail down the distance to within 10ly, you can't say that
[06:18:06] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: not really
[06:18:20] <SpeedEvil> cut the ends off, wash it out and you're done. The hazard of one tube is zero
[06:18:51] <XXCoder> I do not want to release mecury to envorment
[06:19:09] <SpeedEvil> The amount of mercury is very, very close to zero for small modern tubes
[06:19:19] <XXCoder> and that star wars one? it's not distance.. lol
[06:20:19] <archivist> more mercury is released with each cremation than a tube breakage
[06:29:25] <XXCoder> ok
[08:23:31] <trentster> ok - I have officially reached the point where I need a Linuxcnc mentor to help me figure out how to get my system working.
[08:23:38] <trentster> any takers ?
[08:24:05] <trentster> I am using this breakout board
[08:24:07] <trentster> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/3-PCS-Leadshine-AM882-Stepper-Motor-Driver-with-Sensorless-Detection-Up-to-80VDC-8-2A-512/1452584_2046501243.html
[08:24:25] <spline> operators are standing by, live, 2.99 first minute. 1.99 each additional minute
[08:24:55] <trentster> I can put a multimeter on the parallel cable and can confirm when I test the axis voltage on corresponding pin works
[08:25:38] <malcom2073> trentster: Alright, what issue are you having?
[08:25:46] <trentster> In linux cnc nothing happens no movement - must be something odd with the break out board
[08:25:58] <CaptHindsight> trentster: that BOB looks familiar, does it have LED's on the IO?
[08:26:13] <malcom2073> trentster: No movement in stepconf?
[08:26:24] <trentster> yes got 5v power supply conencted power does illuminate
[08:26:50] <trentster> even tried removing the jumpers in top right corner - which I think may invert isgnals just in case no go.
[08:27:26] <trentster> in stepconf no movement but there is correct voltage pulse on pin when I move axis
[08:27:50] <malcom2073> You've ensured that the driver is enabled (getting power, and enable pin is live)?
[08:28:20] <trentster> all my drivers are leadshine am882's - and system is confirmed working when I use grbl without breakout board
[08:28:55] <malcom2073> With the breakout board though, they're being enabled? I know last time I ran stepconf, the enable pin was wrong on each axis and I had to change it
[08:29:22] <trentster> malcom2073: thats the problem by playing with those jumpers I can get lights on drivers to flash which mean enabled, or if I swap the jumpers around I can get lights on driver to be solid on which means disabled
[08:29:25] <Valen> it's probably something "simple" like that
[08:29:39] <malcom2073> trentster: What do those jumpers do?
[08:29:44] <trentster> hmmm - its probably something simple
[08:30:11] <malcom2073> Also: You have it hooked up right in terms of high side/low side?
[08:30:13] <trentster> malcom2073: I have no clue what they do its not documented anywhere, but normally they invert pins or + -
[08:30:26] <trentster> let me show you quick the way its connected
[08:30:29] <malcom2073> The breakout should either be on the high side, or the low side of the driver's inputs, which, depends on the breakout board
[08:30:53] <Valen> have you actually made the steppers spin by any method?
[08:31:14] <malcom2073> Valen: he said grbl was able to run them (drivers) without the breakout board
[08:31:15] <CaptHindsight> Spida: making soft foam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rRo1nZ2imI
[08:31:52] <Valen> ahh that's good then. I suggest tracing the difference between what that is doing and what EMC is doing
[08:32:56] <Valen> IE look at one motor drive, see what grbl is putting into it, then compare and contrast with what you see when you hook it up to linux cnc
[08:33:57] <Valen> then you will know if your enable is even on the right pin, and if it should be going high or low or what
[08:36:15] <Valen> anyway, good luck, its past my bed time ;->
[08:40:04] <trentster> ok here is how its currently connected and the way I had it connected to arduino as well
[08:40:05] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/3qccSJngCFe1fqTTkMKGpTecdU99YN
[08:40:41] <trentster> Y and Z I have not documented in the diagram but they follow the same convention as X driver
[08:41:18] <trentster> not sure WTF I am meant to connect DRV en - and en + to ?
[08:41:21] <malcom2073> On your drivers, You have enable/step/dir + hooked to 5v power, and - hooked to your breakout board?
[08:41:52] <trentster> oh yeah en + is conencted to 5v + as well
[08:42:17] <trentster> I have tried with en- connected to ground it makes no difference
[08:42:43] <malcom2073> Do you have datasheet/hookup diagram for your drivers?
[08:42:50] <malcom2073> Wait
[08:42:54] <trentster> yup
[08:42:57] <malcom2073> With arduino working, how did you have enable hooked up?
[08:43:02] <malcom2073> en+ to 5v, en- to arduino?
[08:43:09] <trentster> http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/Down/AM882m.pdf
[08:43:39] <trentster> malcom2073: yes thats the way I had it connected on arduino
[08:44:26] <malcom2073> Ok the breakout board should be the same. You said that one of the jumper settings allowed the drives to be enabled?
[08:44:37] <malcom2073> Also, if you tied direct to ground, you had a current limiting resistor in there per the datasheet yeah?
[08:45:12] <trentster> erm no
[08:45:25] <trentster> not during this stage not yet
[08:45:28] <malcom2073> Well.... let's assume it's not blown for a minute :P
[08:46:12] <trentster> well If I recall reading the datasheet you only need current limiting resistor if input voltage is higher than 5v on the pins
[08:46:15] <trentster> which its not
[08:46:18] <malcom2073> Alright
[08:46:19] <trentster> let me confirm
[08:46:40] <trentster> thats why I did not use resistor on arduino either
[08:47:26] <trentster> yeah the datasheet says R0 if VCC=5v
[08:47:32] <trentster> which it is
[08:47:57] <malcom2073> ok, you said that if you set the jumpers such that enable worked, you still got no stepper movement?
[08:48:48] <trentster> yes the only thing that I could get to happen with removing both jumpers is on power up spindle started turning probably round 3000RPM
[08:48:56] <trentster> other than that no dice
[08:49:24] <trentster> when spindle was turning spindle stop and start or speed up and down in linuxcnc had no effect
[08:50:23] <malcom2073> something's weird with that breakout board, I'd highly recommend buying a non-china one with actual documentation :/
[08:51:16] <trentster> yeah - I kinda figured as much - just thought I would give it a shoit as its the breakout baord that came with the drivers when I bought them
[08:51:41] <malcom2073> Yeah if hooking it up like they say doesn't work.... unsure what else you can do without docs
[08:51:55] <trentster> what you reccomend I get
[08:52:04] <malcom2073> You've verified that you have the step/dir pins set right in stepconf?
[08:52:14] <malcom2073> Either with a multimeter, or by following traces on the BOB?
[08:53:14] <archivist> can you point at a working site so I can see which breakout it is
[08:53:22] <trentster> in stepconf I clicked the text this axis (X) set the movement to 20mm per second over 200mm distance to give me 10 seconds of signal time
[08:54:04] <archivist> from what I can see you have the double opto in series error
[08:54:43] <trentster> I then held multimeter ground on lptcable end metal case and the positive side to pin 2 or 3 cant recall but I did verify that when I clicked run I got 5V on the pin for 10 seconds and then voltage dropped to zero
[08:55:02] <trentster> so I presume that means its working, I didnt go so far as to test every single ping yet
[08:55:23] <archivist> you need to verify voltages when driving a pin on a pin
[08:55:38] <trentster> archivist: ?
[08:55:56] <trentster> didnt I do that with what I wrotre above?
[08:56:31] <archivist> its is hard to describe the not enough current through an opto due to design error
[08:56:49] <trentster> archivist: its this breakout http://monosnap.com/image/3qccSJngCFe1fqTTkMKGpTecdU99YN
[08:57:09] <trentster> I cant find any other mention of it on the web even when googling for its model number directly
[08:57:15] <archivist> you have writing OVER the optos
[08:57:41] <trentster> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/3-PCS-Leadshine-AM882-Stepper-Motor-Driver-with-Sensorless-Detection-Up-to-80VDC-8-2A-512/1452584_2046501243.html
[08:57:44] <archivist> you also have optos in the driver, dumb having two in series
[08:58:21] <trentster> Thats the only reference I can find on the web to it, its the place I bought the drivers from and the person on aliexpress the exact guy I got them from.
[08:58:40] <trentster> so you reckon its a breakout board issue?
[08:58:55] <trentster> just toss it and get something more mainstream / better?
[08:58:57] <archivist> you can see series resistors on the board in series with the opto, the driver has this too internally
[08:59:05] <archivist> dumb
[08:59:18] <malcom2073> Would running a higher voltage help?
[08:59:23] <malcom2073> instead of using 5v to trigger
[09:00:25] <archivist> yes 10v but you would have to hack something
[09:00:54] <malcom2073> I was thinking run stepper power to en+, en- to BOB
[09:01:04] <malcom2073> The driver datasheet allows for that, as long as grounds are tied together
[09:01:39] <trentster> I can get this breakout board locally pretty quickly in a day or two. http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=59
[09:01:58] <skunkworks_> I have had good luck with these.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Ship-5-Axis-MACH3-CNC-Breakout-Board-Interface-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-/231617048089?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ed73ae19
[09:02:29] <trentster> like I mentioned previously things in Australia is not cheap, that will work out to like $70 with shipping, which is well on the way to 40% of a smoothstepper
[09:04:07] <archivist> the one skunkworks has pointed at, look on your local fleabay and find the same it is cheap and works
[09:04:09] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I have one of those on my desk
[09:04:27] <trentster> ok will see if I can find it locally
[09:04:52] <archivist> I just put one in my 5 axis it just works, it drives the optos correctly
[09:05:48] <skunkworks_> we have a handfull - they are so cheap and work well. (no optos on the outputs.)
[09:05:53] <trentster> does it work ok with limits, aprticularly inductive. I would like to have a board that has some kind of signal protection to guard against noise on limits
[09:06:05] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately you have to be careful of the BOB's from China, I've had some that did not isolate the LPT side from the IO side (power or ground) even though they had optos
[09:06:53] <archivist> isolation is in the driver too, no need to isolate twice
[09:07:27] <CaptHindsight> yes, maybe the optos were just for show
[09:08:04] <trentster> archivist I was getting intermittent flase triggers on proximity and on Z probe with the arduino, so not so sure about the drivers stopping it
[09:08:32] <archivist> aaaarrrrguino is hardly relevant for linuxcnc
[09:09:15] <archivist> each wiring setup can have its own problems
[09:09:25] <trentster> e.g. had an issue with the z height metal plate, had to make sure I held it down without making contact with my skin or it would immediately trigger as z started lowering, if I held it down with something non conductive worked fine
[09:09:48] <CaptHindsight> are there stepper drivers made for repcrap and similar that don't have optos on the the inputs?
[09:10:02] <trentster> archivist: I only mentioned it as you said that the drivers themselves will isolate, and I was using same drivers with arduino and had issues.
[09:10:07] <trentster> so thought it was relevant
[09:11:44] <archivist> CaptHindsight, odd that the seller was mixing good leadshine with internal opto and the wrong breakout, I assume none test the setups
[09:12:15] <malcom2073> aliexpress ftw
[09:12:28] <archivist> box shifters
[09:13:59] <CaptHindsight> they just sell stuff, to them a BOB is a BOB is a BOB
[09:14:02] <trentster> guys I doubt these are fake or bad leadshines, if thats what you are inferring, I specifically made sure I went with a aliexpress seller that has 100% feedback rating and that others had bought from cause they were know quality drivers
[09:14:35] <archivist> an upside down supplier http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-5-Axis-Interface-Breakout-Board-For-Stepper-Motor-Driver-CNC-Mill-MACH3-OG-/291465338695
[09:14:39] <trentster> I need to buy a new keyboard, heh - this mac keyboard ha had it
[09:14:45] <CaptHindsight> trentster: no, just a not a good combo of components
[09:15:36] <trentster> archivist: thanks mate
[09:15:53] <lair82_> cradek you around?
[09:17:41] <archivist> trentster, I put the "docs" I found at http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/cnc/bob/
[09:18:01] <trentster> CaptHindsight: archivist reading the description for that BOB it says External power supply input: 12-24V.
[09:18:25] <archivist> that is the separate 0-10 v pwm output
[09:18:28] <trentster> does this mean if I dont want to power it over usb I will have to toss 5v psu and get a seperate 12V one
[09:18:46] <trentster> ok cool thanks
[09:18:59] <archivist> you need the 5v from usb or some supply and 12v isolated
[09:19:34] <archivist> the 12v will be driving your vfd analogue in
[09:19:54] <archivist> I used a little inverter for that
[09:20:14] <trentster> I have currently got in there a powersupply that was designed to conenct to a hard drive molex connector it supplies both 5V and 12V - so I am good to stick with that? just to use the 12V and the common ground?
[09:22:08] <archivist> that is not isolated therefofe joind the vfd ground to the 5v ground
[09:23:03] <archivist> noise problems are often from ground loops
[09:23:04] <trentster> archivist so - to clarify - sorry a bit confused if I use usb cable for 5v molex for 12v then I am good?
[09:23:13] <trentster> as long as they dont share a common ground?
[09:23:20] <archivist> yes
[09:24:30] <archivist> that board also has a terminal for 5v so can be off a another psu, does not have to be usb
[09:25:10] <archivist> its at the bottom right
[09:28:59] <skunkworks_> using one here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPzow8L1dxw
[09:30:25] <trentster> archivist: thanks I dont have a seperate 5v psu - I will have to buy one or use usb
[09:30:28] <archivist> using my old homebrew ratsnest breakout I got noise back into the B drive, using the new one all problems went away
[09:33:18] <ssi> morn
[09:33:31] <skunkworks_> I have a few home brew bobs.. These are a not nicer ;)
[09:34:04] <archivist> I have managed to keep the homebrew out of my pictures :)
[09:34:21] <archivist> I just checked
[09:34:32] <trentster> archivist: new one = ebay $14 special ?
[09:34:37] <archivist> yes
[09:35:05] <trentster> ok I have ordered it
[09:36:08] <archivist> 3 or 4 of us using it now, no reported problems so far
[09:38:29] <trentster> archivist: I know you know your shit, when you speak I listen - if it gets your approval tick that good enough for me
[09:39:17] * archivist knows nothing
[09:40:13] <trentster> out of interest if you have $50-$100 to spend on a BOB would you still get this vs soemthing else?
[09:40:41] <archivist> yes likely
[09:41:04] <archivist> if I had more I would be moving to servo
[09:41:26] <ssi> if you have more than a dollar to spend you should be using mesa hardware
[09:42:10] <archivist> whole lot of expense to move up to servo
[09:44:47] <trentster> ssi: yup - but mesa with a sucky machine still = sucky machine
[09:45:14] <trentster> rather spend money elsewhere improving actual machine then go mesa later.
[09:45:19] <ssi> yeah but at least it's a sucky machine that's not limited in hard-to-troubleshoot areas like step rates :)
[09:45:37] <trentster> Don't know how you guys make any sense of that mesa site btw its just information option overload
[09:45:52] <skunkworks_> you have to be one with the website..
[09:46:08] <ssi> you get the hang of it eventually... in the beginning just ask in here what you need
[09:46:19] <ssi> so
[09:46:25] <ssi> if I go buy two of these kuka arms
[09:46:36] <ssi> do we already have kins for them?
[09:46:38] <trentster> ssi whats the entry level Mesa card for a poor man's cnc?
[09:46:59] <ssi> trentster: best bet for a stepper machine is probably the 7i76 plug'n'go kit
[09:47:03] <ssi> it's about $200
[09:47:23] <trentster> I will check it out ssi you work for them?
[09:48:28] <skunkworks_> heh - no - mesa is just a great company and everyone like them.
[09:48:39] <jdh> I would also suggest mesa for $200 is way better than a $50-$100 BOB
[09:48:54] <skunkworks_> ^ yes
[09:51:32] <ssi> yeah it's really worth it... it'll make it easier to have tidy wiring, it'll give you way more expansion capabilities, it'll run your hardware faster with less PC overhead
[09:51:36] <skunkworks_> although if you are pinching pennies - a mesa board like 5i25 (pci) or 7i92 (ethernet) would allow you to directly connect your $14 break out board. You can then always upgrade to mesa daughter boards.
[09:52:20] <skunkworks_> $89
[09:54:32] <trentster> skunkworks: you got url for that handy?
[09:55:06] <Rab> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=55
[09:55:30] <skunkworks_> This would be my rec http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=5i25&product_id=215
[09:57:47] <ssi> I would second that
[09:58:25] <ssi> note that you'd get that one if you have PCI slots... if you have PCIe slots, you should get the one with the 6i25/7i76
[10:05:01] <trentster> wow - every time I look at the AUD it gets weaker - $USD rocks again!
[10:05:46] <trentster> Rab: skunkworks ssi thanks for the info
[10:06:02] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I quoted an open source design for an inkjet that included mesa hardware. The majority of complaints and hub-bub was the cost of the Mesa hardware and complexity of Linuxcnc
[10:06:20] <ssi> CaptHindsight: sucks for them
[10:06:35] <trentster> maybe they should give us poor Aussies the "5 or more" price :P
[10:06:42] <ssi> mesa hardware is remarkably inexpensive for what it is
[10:07:43] <trentster> ssi: I would not throw around the word "remarkably" that loosely :P
[10:08:19] <ssi> I've remarked on the value of their hardware many times in the past, therefore it's an accurate statement :)
[10:08:32] <trentster> remarkably inexpensive would be the machine it would be going in which was purchased for $15 AUD and came with 4GB of ram
[10:08:43] <lair82_> For what it is though, like ssi said, it is pretty cheap for what you are getting.
[10:08:50] <CaptHindsight> ssi: seems that their time is near worthless, they felt that days or weeks of their time was worth saving $100
[10:09:26] <trentster> its a card to offload signal generation away from PC. Same thing as an arduino does for $4
[10:09:29] <trentster> :P
[10:09:31] <CaptHindsight> FPGA design and writing a new application from scratch
[10:09:34] <Rab> trentster, you should try pricing other industrial machine controls.
[10:10:00] <lair82_> I have 5 35000lb plus, pre 1985 Cincinnati Milacron machines all mesa powered!!!!!! :)
[10:10:01] <ssi> if you think an fpga with io hardware is the same thing as a $4 arduino you've got a ways to go
[10:10:01] <trentster> I am just giving you guys a hard time and dropping some troll bait.
[10:10:08] <trentster> I am sure its worth every penny
[10:10:27] <trentster> :-)
[10:12:30] <trentster> Why do you think I have moved to LinuxCNC - cause I think the arduino is so wonderful. I can appreciate the efficiency of GRBL but I dont think it compares in any way shape or form to LinuxCNC
[10:12:37] <CaptHindsight> I'd think that if one wanted to develop open source hardware they would focus on low cost positioner designs
[10:13:04] <CaptHindsight> and not threaded rods and hot melt joints
[10:13:17] <trentster> and mesa takes it one step further and removes what I dont like about linux cnc which is having to use a PC and hope latency is tweaked enough to be reliable
[10:14:49] <trentster> That being said I do look forward to actually getting it running with a darn breakout board that works :-)
[10:15:13] <trentster> or a mesa if I can convince my wallet to part with some of its contents
[10:15:40] <CaptHindsight> how to make 1-4ft positioners with ball screws and profile bearings inexpensively?
[10:15:41] <skunkworks_> lair82_, did you figure out what was causing the slowdown?
[10:16:56] <skunkworks_> trentster, did you see http://www.cnczone.com/forums/opensource-software/271966-grbl-logging-linuxcnc.html
[10:17:06] * skunkworks_ is samco
[10:18:29] <trentster> skunkworks: no I didnt see that - have seen suprisingly little reviews about grbl vs linuxcnc besides the odd youtube videos of guys claiming that running same job on GRBL was 30% faster - which we have to take with a pinch of salt.
[10:19:27] <trentster> skunkworks: thats the one I saw http://monosnap.com/image/xKK1y7lfPsEbvJVVF8diTT5AuTbm7v
[10:19:56] <trentster> I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1mxS7WI-tg
[10:21:31] <skunkworks_> I saw that. He was running an the current tp in linuxcnc. The new tp in the next release version (2.7) has a much better planner.
[10:21:42] <skunkworks_> I made some comments on that video
[10:22:04] <trentster> cool
[10:23:05] <trentster> but even if grbl is faster its still not a compelling reason to use it - linuxcnc has so many more features and abilities even if the runs take longer who cares.
[10:23:33] <trentster> I suppose the only place it would make a difference is guys who are doing mass fabrication and it means more units out the door
[10:23:47] <ssi> yeah but nobody who's doing real production is doing it on an arduino
[10:23:56] <archivist> I like skunkworks testing the competition and publishing :)
[10:24:03] <CaptHindsight> the other comment I've heard is that Linuxcnc is just old code so they feel compelled to write something new
[10:24:32] <cradek> haha
[10:24:39] <cradek> all software was written in the past
[10:25:00] <CaptHindsight> heh, just reporting on what I've heard when I ask
[10:25:12] <lair82_> skunkworks, no I never did figure it out, I know that I haven,
[10:25:29] <lair82_> haven't had any problems since.
[10:25:36] <cradek> you're still going to bisect it when you get a chance?
[10:26:10] <lair82_> I ran it once, got results, finishing up a second round now to verify.
[10:26:53] <lair82_> Should I just update my bug report with my findings?
[10:27:47] <cradek> yes
[10:27:49] <trentster> universal gcode sender is disgusting to use. - not sure how people claim its wonderful - maybe they need glasses
[10:28:30] <lair82_> OK
[10:29:41] <skunkworks_> I was just happy I could send gcode to the arduino
[10:32:43] <trentster> skunkworks: was that cnczone article yours?
[10:33:34] <skunkworks_> yes
[10:33:40] <trentster> If so great job of doing an intelligent comparison
[10:33:48] <skunkworks_> thanks
[10:34:06] <trentster> you were using a mesa for all your linuxcnc tests?
[10:34:14] <skunkworks_> yes
[10:34:17] <archivist> trentster, he has been measuring mac as well :)
[10:34:39] <trentster> What would the results look like with a stock pc with avergae latency scores?
[10:35:03] <lair82_> bisect checked out, got the same results twice. Thanks cradek
[10:35:28] <cradek> ooh, good news, so what is it?
[10:35:43] <skunkworks_> trentster, that was using linuxcnc with the printer port.. (vs arduino and mach (using the printer port)
[10:35:51] <trentster> that would be real interesting to see as by using mesa it still kinda really skews the cost comparison even wider - after all for a $4 device it performs pretty admirably
[10:36:03] <skunkworks_> the mesa hardware was for the logging computer
[10:36:22] <trentster> aah - ok thats good
[10:37:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/High-Precision-Linear-Modules-effective-stroke-200mm-2-MGN12-350MM-4-MGN12CA-1-SFU1204-350MM-1/115233_941864212.html $266 with shipping
[10:37:22] <trentster> skunkworks: when you say "violates acceleration" does that mean it exceeds the maximum feed and speed rate specified?
[10:38:14] <lair82_> 81305e1786d0acdfcb6cae912bba2c5a77faeba7 is the first bad commit commit 81305e1786d0acdfcb6cae912bba2c5a77faeba7 Author: Norbert Schechner <nieson@web.de>
[10:38:20] <archivist> acceleration is the rate of change
[10:39:20] <skunkworks_> trentster, another good read
[10:39:21] <skunkworks_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NewTrajectoryControl
[10:39:37] <skunkworks_> shows some linuxcnc vs mach - noise and all
[10:40:44] <trentster> thanks - bookmarked
[10:42:08] <cradek> lair82_: huh, surprising. so it is a gmoccapy problem, but I can't guess why from looking at that change.
[10:43:25] <trentster> skunkworks: have you seen the changelog for the next release of grbl - will be a major improvement
[10:43:40] <skunkworks_> no. link?
[10:44:21] <trentster> https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/Development-Path-and-Future-Needs
[10:46:59] <Deejay> bbl
[10:48:22] <archivist> hehe 4th axis capability: Not high on the priority list, since no one has a 4th axis yet to test it on.
[10:49:04] <archivist> strange definition of no one
[10:49:11] <cradek> wait, jogging?
[10:50:01] <skunkworks_> trentster, oh - yes. I have seen that
[10:50:14] <skunkworks_> all stuff linuxcnc already does ;)
[10:51:00] <trentster> skunkworks: it will never have the same feature set as linuxcnc it does not have enough storage or ram
[10:51:35] <trentster> maybe when they do the ARM port possibly - then there will no longer be limits on that kind of thing
[10:52:19] <lair82_> cradek, i actually only see the delay when it is in a feed move, not on the rapids
[11:19:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.link-motor.com/views.asp?hw_id=82 AC Servo Motor and drive 2.39Nm $380
[11:21:45] <ssi> interesting
[11:21:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.link-motor.com/sort.asp?sort_id=4 the whole range
[11:23:44] <ssi> those are cheap enough I could buy a set for the VMC
[11:23:50] <ssi> rather than dicking with the fanuc motors
[11:23:51] <archivist> some strange urls for those motors
[11:23:58] <CaptHindsight> for $130 more you can get 2x the torque http://www.link-motor.com/views.asp?hw_id=88
[11:26:01] <CaptHindsight> ssi: http://www.link-motor.com/nsort.asp?nsort_id=9 the AS130 series 15Nm for $588
[11:28:03] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to see the speed vs torque curves
[11:28:34] <CaptHindsight> they also come with encoders
[11:29:04] <ssi> I should hope so
[11:29:12] <ssi> I hope it's a kit with motors, encoders mounted, cables, and drives
[11:31:38] <CaptHindsight> I don't see any cable pics
[11:33:06] <CaptHindsight> the motor and drive is less than the cost of the Parker cables
[11:34:05] <ssi> yeah
[12:08:03] <zeeshan> capt those look very chinese :)
[13:03:32] <Sync_> CaptHindsight: those are basically faked mitsubishis
[13:03:37] <Sync_> but the encoders suck
[13:03:50] <Sync_> 2500ppr is not really enough for good control
[13:08:10] <CaptHindsight> dunno, depends on how they designed the drive and if it's actually 2500ppr, is it quadrature 625, 2500 or 10Kppr
[13:11:44] <Sync_> it probably is quadrature 2500
[13:11:56] <Sync_> but 10kppr will sequal
[13:12:42] <Sync_> there is a reason why a lot of servos still use resolvers
[13:14:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/servo-driversimdrive-servo-motor-750w-set found these drives sold from Germany
[13:16:41] <Sync_> I have not found the OEM for those yet but they are not parametered really stiff
[13:17:00] <Sync_> you can troll the controller by wiggling the axis
[13:17:41] <CaptHindsight> I found them a few weeks ago
[13:17:49] <CaptHindsight> looking for the link
[13:17:55] <Sync_> which is in part due to the low feedback resolution and due to poor parameters
[13:18:25] <CaptHindsight> did you get them from automationtechnologiesinc.com?
[13:19:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/produkt-33,3-simDriveAC_Servo_750W_325V_M4H075K_Model.html
[13:19:29] <CaptHindsight> City: Bydgoszcz Country: Poland
[13:19:34] <Sync_> no but a friend of mine bought a set of similar ones
[13:19:38] <Sync_> they are all the same after all
[13:31:56] <CaptHindsight> well you tend to get what you pay for and the Chinese controllers tend to need some redesign
[13:41:21] <Sync_> I'd just buy used servos off ebay
[13:42:24] <CaptHindsight> only a problem if you need several of the same type/size
[13:42:55] <Sync_> yeah
[13:43:03] <CaptHindsight> but there are worse problems than having to build 5 - 10 of something
[13:43:18] <CaptHindsight> having 0 orders for example
[13:43:35] <Sync_> but luckily a machine scrapyard I know usually has a good stack of servos
[13:44:31] <CaptHindsight> I've noticed clusters of those near semiconductor fabs and similar
[13:45:19] <Sync_> most fabs here don't throw their stuff away
[13:45:29] <Sync_> as there is not a lot of free VC floating around
[13:45:29] <CaptHindsight> I think I've seen Intel, Micron, IBM ID tags on several components
[13:45:55] <Sync_> yeah, why not
[13:52:20] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Cancellation-Earphones-Headphones-Languages/dp/B00PZNC514/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1438108027&sr=8-5&keywords=wireless+bluetooth+earbuds
[14:08:27] <PetefromTn_> just watched a documentary about Nikola Tesla. I always knew he was a visionary genius but I really did not know all of the inventions he is really responsible for. Just amazing really...
[14:12:06] <CaptHindsight> Tesla was able to perform integral calculus in his head, which prompted his teachers to believe that he was cheating.
[14:14:21] <PetefromTn_> I have never seen this documentary before and it is quite good. Its on netflix. I did not know he is the inventor of radio control!! Unbelievable some of the things he did....
[14:17:26] <Sync_> depending on the integrals involved that is entirely possible
[14:18:17] * furrywolf integrates 1dx from 0 to 1.
[14:18:20] <furrywolf> in my head!
[14:20:15] <PCW> pcw integrates Xdx from 0 to 2
[14:22:49] <BitEvil> Just be careful, lots of these documentaries are very poorly researched and uncritical
[14:26:53] <CaptHindsight> yeah, how many followers would he have had on Facebook? The nerve of some people putting him on a "petal stool"
[14:28:14] <PetefromTn_> hard to deny a lot of the things he did and experimented in...most of them are in pictures and historic places in New York and in the histories of some of the largest companies in the Early US
[14:31:01] <PetefromTn_> I will say that the Documentary does not paint a pretty picture of Thomas Edison LOL
[14:31:05] <SpeedEvil> And yes - he did a lot of awesome stuff
[14:31:41] <SpeedEvil> But deiifying either man is pretty retarded
[14:32:05] <furrywolf> my edison batteries rock. :P
[14:32:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:37:23] <furrywolf> and we're switching back to DC power distribution... of course, we have tesla to thank for the technology that makes DC power distribution possible. :P
[14:46:31] <PetefromTn_> the show even suggests that some of his ideas on power transmission thru thin air is the earliest foundations of particle beams....
[14:46:53] <furrywolf> lol
[14:47:12] <furrywolf> and the emdrive resurrects his theories on the aether...
[14:47:23] * furrywolf waits for more tests
[14:47:27] <PetefromTn_> laugh if you want
[14:47:50] <PetefromTn_> but many countries are investing in this research and have been for years...
[14:48:15] <_methods> pew pew
[14:49:24] <PetefromTn_> exactly unfortunately war drives this kind of experimentation more often than not.
[15:04:37] <CaptHindsight> http://hothardware.com/news/intel-and-micron-jointly-drop-disruptive-game-changing-3d-xpoint-cross-point-memory-1000x-faster-than-nand
[15:07:23] <_methods> wtf?
[15:07:57] <_methods> oh they dropped it like unveiled it
[15:08:11] <_methods> damn click bait titles
[15:08:38] <CaptHindsight> heh, poor choice of words
[15:09:26] <malcom2073> sounded like they dropped it 1000x faster than they dropped nand :P
[15:09:57] <_methods> wow that sounds insane
[15:10:33] <Deejay> re
[15:12:16] <_methods> cheam ram drives
[15:12:19] <_methods> sign me up
[15:14:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Enco-Lathe-12-x-36-/291511999087 Shipping: $16.75 Expedited Shipping
[15:15:04] <furrywolf> lol
[15:15:32] <malcom2073> Heh, that looks identical to mine
[15:15:49] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how long it takes at that low rate?
[15:16:01] <malcom2073> Estimated between Fri. Jul. 31 and Tue. Aug. 4
[15:16:03] <malcom2073> 2016
[15:16:39] <Sync_> May not ship to Germany ):
[15:17:25] <malcom2073> Heh ships USPS priority mail
[15:17:27] <CaptHindsight> Expedited Shipping (USPS Priority Mail®) yeah, i think the flat rate boxes only go to ~10Kg
[15:17:45] <malcom2073> I wonder if they're bound to honor that shipping rate
[15:17:52] <furrywolf> I think you can stuff a full 70lbs into one of them.
[15:18:00] <malcom2073> Source, with a feedback of 16, they may not care
[15:18:02] <furrywolf> at least domestic. international I think is 20lbs
[15:18:19] <furrywolf> no, ebay lets sellers cancel transactions with no penalty.
[15:18:35] <furrywolf> in theory it reflects negatively on them, in some hidden metric you have no access to.
[15:18:41] <malcom2073> heh
[15:45:18] <Computer_barf> do flat faced endmills have a hard time cutting down into the material?
[15:45:30] <ssi> they do ok as long as they're center cutting
[15:45:36] <ssi> but you have to plunge slowly
[15:45:41] <cradek> it's always better to ramp if you can
[15:45:44] <ssi> and it's probably better to cut on a ramp
[15:46:01] <Computer_barf> im cutting 6061 aluminum on my g0704, and it seems to do fine while its going around the shape of the part,
[15:46:03] <Roguish> ___barf: what ssi and cradek said.
[15:46:17] <Computer_barf> but it whines and vibrates as it goes down into the next layer
[15:46:30] <cradek> that's pretty normal, especially on a loose machine
[15:46:36] <cradek> so don't do that, if you can help it
[15:46:57] <furrywolf> Computer_barf: obviously you need to do like pink and fit a power drawbar and tool changer chain and switch to a different endmill for plunging. on your g0704.
[15:46:59] <cradek> sometimes drilling a hole in the right place can help a lot
[15:47:05] <cradek> be creative
[15:48:08] <Computer_barf> ive been using tabs to keep the part on the bar when it gets to the end
[15:48:57] <Computer_barf> but what is annoyin is that the part has nice smooth edges for most of the part creation, but when it goes down in to cut out the last of the material leaving the tabs, it makes marks on the side of the parts
[15:49:59] <Computer_barf> is having the machine rumble over half a millimeter plunge into 6061 still normal?
[15:50:23] <Loetmichel> Computer_barf: if its a mill bit that cant cut over middle: YES ;)
[15:51:14] <fenn> Computer_barf: maybe your z axis ways need to be tightened up
[15:51:31] * Loetmichel polunges into AlMg3 this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKHPsJtZlc
[15:52:08] <Computer_barf> not sure what can't cut over middle means , i know the end of the endmills are flat as i wanted to do flat bottom cuts,
[15:52:12] <cradek> Computer_barf: how many flutes on your end mill? what diameter?
[15:52:14] <Computer_barf> but perhaps that was a mistake
[15:52:21] <cradek> "centercutting" is what they are called
[15:52:30] <cradek> some mills are not centercutting. most are.
[15:52:35] <Computer_barf> 3 flute , quarter inch
[15:53:00] <Loetmichel> is one of the 3 flat cutting edges longer than the other two?
[15:53:01] <cradek> 3 flute is good. they're the least bad. what is the flute length?
[15:53:17] <cradek> you should use the shortest flute length and shortest stickout possible
[15:53:40] <cradek> at 1/4" HSS is very flexible, and carbide doesn't cost very much
[15:53:45] <Loetmichel> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_1489-r.jpg <- this is cener cutting
[15:53:48] <Loetmichel> center
[15:53:52] <Computer_barf> i just tried tightenign my z way and it moved easily
[15:53:58] <Computer_barf> so that probably means its loose
[15:54:22] <Computer_barf> they are carbide cradek
[15:54:54] <cradek> good
[15:54:59] <cradek> then it's the machine :-)
[15:55:45] <Computer_barf> hopefully the z axis way will show a diffrence
[15:56:39] <Loetmichel> Computer_barf: it is "good practice" to plunge down sideways anyway
[15:56:57] <Loetmichel> so whenever possible dont jut plunge down, move either in x or y or both while plunging
[15:57:00] <ssi> if you're pocketing, ramp into it
[15:57:07] <ssi> if you're tryign to cut a hole, use a drill :P
[15:57:07] <Loetmichel> thats what i meant
[15:57:33] <Computer_barf> no just outlining parts
[15:57:36] <Loetmichel> ssi: if you are refering to me "milldrilling": i was just to lazy to toolchange to a 2,5mm drill bit ;)
[15:57:44] <ssi> no, not you
[15:58:40] <Computer_barf> how do I tell if an endmil has become not sharp? I can't see any chips or anything when I inspect it visually
[15:59:13] <cradek> same way as a knife: see if it catches on your fingernail
[15:59:33] <Computer_barf> ssi: im not pocketing, I guess you could say im slottting, slotting around a part. half inch deep.
[15:59:35] <cradek> or magnification, I guess?
[16:00:04] <cradek> slot oversized, and take a finishing pass full depth
[16:00:33] <cradek> you can do half inch of depth with a 1/4" carbide, just don't cut much, maybe .005-.010 inch
[16:01:04] <Loetmichel> ssi: another vid "milldrilling" ... caution, a bit loud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wS_URQsyTU
[16:01:11] <Computer_barf> what is frustrating is that because I am using the tabs tool , it does a final pass , but then it goes and cuts the tabs, which puts in new inperfetions after the final pass
[16:01:14] <cradek> everything works better when only one side of the tool is cutting an edge
[16:01:23] <Loetmichel> works perfectly well for me and spares me from toolchange ;)
[16:01:47] <cradek> tabs aren't a very good solution for workholding
[16:02:18] <cradek> maybe rethink in terms of a bolted fixture, if there's somewhere you can have holes in your part
[16:02:56] <Loetmichel> i use double sided tape or CA glue instead of bolting the part down most of the time
[16:03:07] <Loetmichel> or the vacuum table if its sheet metal ;)
[16:03:13] <Computer_barf> I am thinking to swithcing to not doing tabs and just doing most of the depth instead, then cutting it out on the bandsaw, flipping the part into a flixture and having the champher take off the last bit on what was formerly the bottom
[16:03:17] <XXCoder> Computer_barf: other way is look at cut finish
[16:03:21] <cradek> sometimes I cut all but the last .010 of depth and then whack it with a bfh to dismount, and deburr with a file
[16:03:42] <cradek> it works surprisingly well
[16:03:42] <Computer_barf> bfh?
[16:03:46] <cradek> dead blow hammer
[16:03:47] <XXCoder> cradek: agreed, tabs suck
[16:04:31] <cradek> check twice if you're cutting .010 above the table! :-)
[16:04:45] <Computer_barf> perhaps i could flip it , stick it in a clamp or fixture and facemill off the bottom foil
[16:05:07] <XXCoder> Computer_barf: or M00 to change clamp positions
[16:05:09] <cradek> I've never done that - hammer is better
[16:05:10] <Computer_barf> i have a piece of wood under the material
[16:05:15] <XXCoder> then let it cut off tabs and finish it
[16:05:40] <cradek> prefer 123 blocks to wood
[16:05:53] <Computer_barf> well i have to facemill the part anywahy
[16:06:19] <XXCoder> heh I never like facemill
[16:06:22] <Computer_barf> just a touch, the aluminum surface comes with scratches
[16:06:59] <Computer_barf> ok im sold. going to ditch the tabs
[16:07:37] <Computer_barf> upon tightening the ways, i can see a visual change in the part
[16:07:40] <Computer_barf> excellent
[16:07:52] <XXCoder> my old job there's ALWAYS tabs for 2d parts. always. and some parts always fail to hold. I hate it
[16:08:44] <Loetmichel> if you gluie the parts with CA to the sacrificial board you can mull thru
[16:09:05] <Loetmichel> and THEN give it a whack with a rubber/wood hammer to remove it from the CA ;)
[16:09:09] <Computer_barf> oohh that sounds tempting
[16:09:17] <XXCoder> I heard of carpet tape too
[16:09:21] <XXCoder> havent tried so dunno
[16:09:24] <Computer_barf> CA is?
[16:09:29] <Loetmichel> yeah, i use double sided tape as well
[16:09:37] <XXCoder> oh
[16:09:40] <Computer_barf> i assume some sort of glue
[16:09:45] <Loetmichel> Computer_barf: cyanacrylate "second glue"
[16:10:01] <Loetmichel> dont know the correct english word for it
[16:10:14] <ssi> superglue
[16:10:19] <Computer_barf> im sure google will solve that for me
[16:10:20] <Loetmichel> superglue, yes
[16:10:39] <Loetmichel> in german its "sekundenkleber"
[16:10:52] <ssi> second glue :P
[16:11:04] <ssi> I guess cause it cures in a second?
[16:11:37] <Loetmichel> if you use kicker spray in excess... yes ;)
[16:11:39] <malcom2073> Only to skin heh
[16:11:42] <XXCoder> or it is second time you used it lol
[16:12:32] <Loetmichel> i use loads of this: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/paa/paapt15.htm
[16:12:48] <Loetmichel> and 20ml "cans" of superglue
[16:12:53] <Loetmichel> a week ;)
[16:12:59] <Loetmichel> multiple 20ml cans
[16:15:29] <Loetmichel> if you use kicker/accelerator it is "1 second glue"
[16:15:40] <Loetmichel> otherwise normal CA will take about 10sec to cure
[16:15:48] <Loetmichel> sometimes 20 sec
[16:15:58] <Loetmichel> and only where no air has any access
[16:16:17] <Loetmichel> the excess that is out on the sides will stay liquid most indefinetly
[16:16:21] <ssi> so shouldn't it be zehnsekundenkleber?!
[16:16:25] <ssi> ;)
[16:17:35] <Loetmichel> i always have a number of CA glue bottles in reach: waterthin, medium and "like molasses"... and a spray bottle of kicker ;)
[16:17:40] <Loetmichel> very handy stuff
[16:17:47] <ssi> the latter we call "gap-filling CA"
[16:18:32] <Loetmichel> and since it gets "glass hard" when cured you can simply dismount the workpiece by giving it a good whack on the side
[16:18:40] <Loetmichel> it simply "chips off" the glue
[16:19:22] <furrywolf> I've never had good luck with CA. I no longer use it for anything.
[16:19:39] <furrywolf> It either doesn't bond, cracks, turns yellow, peels, causes everything around it to turn white, or otherwise fails.
[16:19:55] <Loetmichel> when i was in a company that made model plane parts i went thru at least 100ml CA a week
[16:20:03] <Loetmichel> CANT be good for the nose ;)
[16:20:38] <Loetmichel> if it doesent bond you had oil on the surfaces
[16:20:49] <Loetmichel> (yes, fingerprints are enough!)
[16:20:57] <Loetmichel> yellow: never had that
[16:21:06] <Loetmichel> the white stuff is ca vapor
[16:21:13] <PetefromTn_> Just watched Sharknado.....LOL
[16:21:15] <ssi> cyanide :P
[16:21:21] <CaptHindsight> also works great for lifting fingerprints from surfaces!
[16:21:27] <Loetmichel> either get some more air blowing while it cures to avoud that or use less ca ;)
[16:21:41] <furrywolf> or use a better glue. :)
[16:21:53] <XXCoder> elmers
[16:22:38] <furrywolf> jbweld has its uses, but is not nearly what its marketing claims. Mr. Sticky's products work quite well for many things jbweld doesn't.
[16:23:00] <Loetmichel> i have ony 3 sorts of glue at home: CA, a urethane based stuff ("montagekleber") which foams ever so slightly while curing and white glue (for wood)
[16:23:04] <CaptHindsight> warm moist breath, like in a romance novel since the water cures it
[16:23:18] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: might the second be what is sold as Gorilla Glue around here?
[16:23:28] <ssi> sounds like it
[16:23:35] <Loetmichel> oh, and 5 min epoxy, but i think the last bottles of that are gone bad already
[16:23:41] <Loetmichel> dosent use it very oftehn
[16:23:45] <ssi> btw
[16:23:45] <ssi> http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/gorilla_glue.html
[16:24:06] <PetefromTn_> gorilla glu is awesome for certain things..
[16:24:35] <furrywolf> Mr Sticky's epoxies are really nice, but stupidly expensive. also, they self-destruct if you soak them in antifreeze.
[16:24:54] <ssi> T88 is a good structural epoxy
[16:25:02] <ssi> that's what we build wood airplane wings with
[16:25:39] <furrywolf> oh, and another warning: no matter what jbweld says in the package, it is not gasoline-resistant.
[16:25:59] <CaptHindsight> I think Gorilla glue is a polyester
[16:26:38] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i doubt that
[16:26:45] <ssi> it's polyurethane
[16:26:49] <Loetmichel> the only foaming glues i know are urethanes
[16:26:55] <Loetmichel> and the colour fits, too
[16:27:37] <furrywolf> I emailed the jbweld people about this, after it promptly self-destructed in contact with gasoline, and received a weasel response about how their product is resistant to gasoline, but modern products sold as gasoline contain additivies that their expoxy is not compatible with. and yet they keep printing it on their packaging. ought to be a lawsuit about that...
[16:27:39] <CaptHindsight> yeah, urethane
[16:27:41] <Loetmichel> so i would say: yes, the german "montagekleber" cartridges are something like gorilla glue
[16:27:45] <Loetmichel> but it foams less
[16:27:53] <Loetmichel> and is thickened up
[16:28:11] <Loetmichel> it comes in the same cartriges as silicone caulk
[16:28:16] <ssi> heh they're not wrong
[16:28:27] <CaptHindsight> you can make a poleyster or polyether foam, and urethanes can be any color
[16:29:00] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i didnt said you cant
[16:29:05] <Loetmichel> just that it is improbable
[16:29:07] <CaptHindsight> relax
[16:29:33] <Loetmichel> because urethanes are foamed even by the air moisture
[16:29:43] <Loetmichel> no additional foaming agent needed ;)
[16:30:12] <CaptHindsight> depends on the urethane, some don't foam at all
[16:30:20] <furrywolf> I've always found gorilla glue to foam to point where it's useless. then my bottle of it hardened inside the bottle. I never bought a replacement.
[16:30:21] <Loetmichel> i have 2k- speed resin here that is urethane.
[16:30:27] <Loetmichel> it normally doesent foam
[16:30:59] <Loetmichel> but spit or sweat in it and you suddenly need a LARGE mixing container ;)
[16:31:20] <Loetmichel> and that shit sticks to EVERYTHING
[16:31:26] <Loetmichel> including skin ;)
[16:31:35] <Loetmichel> VERY well :-)
[16:31:55] <Loetmichel> (dont ask why i know that... MAN was that a MESS)
[16:32:57] <furrywolf> next time you need to tar and feather someone...
[16:33:15] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: urethanes (especially the 1k types) have very short shelf lifes
[16:33:27] <Loetmichel> maybe your bottle was already old when you bought it?
[16:35:10] <Loetmichel> and for the jbweld: they are right
[16:35:39] <Loetmichel> epoxy IS gasoline resistant. but only "medical grade"gasoline
[16:35:47] <Loetmichel> meaning without ANY additives
[16:35:50] <furrywolf> that the stuff you huff?
[16:36:17] <Loetmichel> no, thats sold here in germany as "testbenzin" as a solvent
[16:36:20] <Loetmichel> not for cars
[16:36:28] <Loetmichel> its 99,9% clean gasoline
[16:36:57] <Loetmichel> i use it for cleaning parts sometimes
[16:37:02] <Loetmichel> when IPA dosent cut it ;)
[16:37:26] <furrywolf> try MEK. :P
[16:37:27] <roycroft> you use ipa to clean things?
[16:37:32] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:37:45] <roycroft> i'm not a fan of ipas, generally, but that seems like a waste of good beer
[16:38:32] <Loetmichel> and a mixture of 50% water 50% IPA and a dab of liquid soap as a "cutting fluid" when milling aluminium
[16:39:12] <Loetmichel> roycroft: IPA as in "IsoPropyl Alcohol 99,9%"
[16:39:14] <XXCoder> ipa here ipa there ipa everywhere
[16:39:42] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: I'd wager he knows that.
[16:39:48] <roycroft> ipa means "india pale ale" :)
[16:39:56] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: MEK is a bit agressive. both to some plastics and to your lungs ;)
[16:40:06] <roycroft> mek is banned in parts of the us
[16:40:11] <Loetmichel> here too
[16:40:21] <Loetmichel> for private users that dont have connections ;)
[16:40:43] <furrywolf> hrmm, here you pick it up at the hardware store, in a big tin...
[16:41:41] <roycroft> and you live in the land of bans
[16:42:05] <furrywolf> yep
[16:42:29] <furrywolf> you can't buy a reliable thermostat, or brake cleaner that cleans brakes, but you can pick up a gallon jug of MEK at the hardware store. :)
[16:43:37] <Loetmichel> land of the bans?
[16:43:42] <Loetmichel> talk germany
[16:43:44] <furrywolf> although I found a workaround for the second of those! "Electric motor cleaner for use only on energized equipment". It's full of those nice chlorinated solvents.
[16:43:50] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: California
[16:44:11] <roycroft> i'll be down there soon
[16:44:16] <roycroft> not staying in cali
[16:44:22] <roycroft> i'll be camping by brookings
[16:44:42] <roycroft> but i'll be hiking and exploring in jedediah smith state park and redwood state/national park
[16:45:09] <Loetmichel> since some idiot wannabe terrorists have tried to make acetonperoxide for a big bomb the acetone bottles in the hardware store here are behind glass and you have to show your passport to get a liter of it.
[16:45:42] <furrywolf> lol
[16:46:19] <furrywolf> state law requires you to prove you're over 18 to buy paint here. because we all know that all graffiti is done by sub-18-year-olds with store-purchased paint.
[16:46:46] <Loetmichel> i would have said: "let them make that thing. just see to it that any innocents are some miles off the building place"
[16:47:09] <Loetmichel> ... that stuff makes nitroglycerin look "unwilling to ignite"
[16:47:19] <furrywolf> lol
[16:48:19] <furrywolf> speaking of which... ssi: ever finish reading Ignition!?
[16:49:01] <Loetmichel> you can set that stuff on the doorstep and simply use a photoflash from a meter away... it will ignite from the light alone
[16:49:19] <Loetmichel> s/ignite/detonate
[16:49:45] <Loetmichel> its THAT unstable
[16:49:48] <roycroft> i think it has more to do with huffing than graffiti, furrywolf
[16:49:58] <furrywolf> "Record High Temperature in Eureka Today" so it's not just my imagination. it's WAY TOO FUCKING HOT.
[16:50:11] <Loetmichel> and to try make a bomb of that is simply insane
[16:50:11] <roycroft> 40 degrees here on thursday
[16:50:22] <roycroft> but it's only 32 right now
[16:50:33] <furrywolf> F, C, K? :P
[16:50:43] <Loetmichel> ... and now we have our names in a list of "possible terrrorists" whenever we need some solvent :-(
[16:50:45] <roycroft> c is the universal default
[16:51:03] <roycroft> 'mericuns are not universal, i know
[16:51:04] <roycroft> but tough
[16:51:29] <Loetmichel> eureka?
[16:51:41] <Loetmichel> there is a city with that name in reality?
[16:51:51] <roycroft> indeed, there is
[16:51:53] <Deejay> gn8
[16:51:55] <furrywolf> ... there's dozens of them.
[16:51:58] <roycroft> it's the redneck sister of arcata
[16:52:00] <Loetmichel> do you get many disappointed TV series fans there?
[16:52:08] * furrywolf looks for a list
[16:52:28] <Loetmichel> <- loved that series ;)
[16:52:28] <roycroft> or is arcata the hippie sister of eureka?
[16:52:37] <roycroft> i think it's both
[16:52:37] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka#Places
[16:52:52] <furrywolf> there's very few hippies left here. now it's potheads and tweekers.
[16:53:45] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: as you can see, there's a lot of eurekas.
[16:53:50] <Loetmichel> i see
[16:54:42] <Loetmichel> <- laughed his ass off when he has first seen an ad for general dynamics
[16:54:51] <Loetmichel> ... even the logo is similar ;)
[16:54:53] <furrywolf> ?
[16:55:42] <Loetmichel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_%28U.S._TV_series%29
[16:56:21] <furrywolf> ... there's a tv series with that name? :P
[16:56:29] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:56:56] <Loetmichel> and the military company that runs that "egghead city" in that series is called "global dynamics"
[16:57:05] <Loetmichel> hence me laughing ;)
[16:59:19] * furrywolf generally pays as little attention to TV as possible
[17:01:15] <DaViruz> i made acetone peroxide once
[17:01:43] <DaViruz> it's not very nice to have around..
[17:03:02] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: can you buy Butyl Acetate there without being a laboratory?
[17:03:18] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[17:03:28] <Loetmichel> does that stuff have a common name?
[17:03:38] <CaptHindsight> not as agresive as MEK but more so than IPA
[17:04:39] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_acetate pretty much just called Butyl acetate
[17:05:07] <roycroft> i keep acetone in stock
[17:05:13] <roycroft> i don't use it often though
[17:05:15] <Loetmichel> no, i dont think i have seen that here anywhere
[17:05:37] <DaViruz> there is talk of acetone getting banned from stores in sweden now
[17:05:46] <roycroft> my standard solvents are mineral spirits, ethanol, acetone, and lacquer thinner
[17:05:52] <CaptHindsight> acetone is considered low VOC in the USA, congress again has superseded science
[17:05:55] <Loetmichel> and i would have remembered the smell if it was in any solvents we can buy here
[17:06:17] <roycroft> i use mineral spirits and ethanol whenver possible
[17:06:18] <Loetmichel> it should be prett "apple" like smell if i read that correctly
[17:06:29] <roycroft> acetone and lacquer thinner when the others don't work
[17:06:56] <CaptHindsight> some lacquer thinner has it
[17:07:12] <roycroft> i have turpentine, mek, japan drier, and other random solvents but only in small quantities, and i rarely use them
[17:07:23] * Loetmichel uses glass cleaner. if that doesent work pure IPA, if that doesent work either acetone
[17:07:29] <roycroft> the four mentioned above i purchase by the gallon
[17:07:50] <roycroft> i also use simply green a lot
[17:07:51] <Loetmichel> or vegetable oil for stickers and similar glues (works surprisingly well)
[17:08:03] <roycroft> i keep that in my ultrasonic cleaner by default
[17:08:14] <roycroft> diluted, of course
[17:08:52] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: sesame oil is great
[17:09:31] <Loetmichel> roycroft: MY US cleaner is filled with a 50/50 mix of water and IPA
[17:09:39] <Loetmichel> and a dash of liquid soap
[17:09:51] <Loetmichel> works very well
[17:10:18] <Loetmichel> but needs to have a lid on at all times or it will evaporate very quick
[17:10:45] <Loetmichel> (the alcohol part)
[17:11:14] <Loetmichel> especially because my cleaner is set to 60°c by default ;)
[17:13:20] <Loetmichel> recently bought a new one after the old one was becoming "incontinent"
[17:13:54] <Loetmichel> dismantled it afterwards: the stainless steel bin in which the cleaning takes part looked like a sieve
[17:14:07] <Loetmichel> cavitation took its toll ;)
[17:14:08] <CaptHindsight> ever have a large enough ultrasonic bath to levitate small objects?
[17:14:37] <Loetmichel> no, mine is just about 2.5 liters
[17:15:14] <roycroft> i set mine to 60 degrees as well
[17:17:26] <Loetmichel> i never thought a 0,5mm thick stainless steel bin could be eaten thru by cavitation in less than 3 months of use....
[17:17:36] <Loetmichel> you learn a new thing every day ;)
[17:31:23] <PetefromTn_> LOL well it seems scammers never quit...jeez
[17:32:11] <CaptHindsight> 3 months!?
[17:32:20] <PetefromTn_> just got a call from my mother
[17:32:41] <PetefromTn_> she wanted to know how I got thrown in jail and what I did and how much money I need hehehe
[17:33:02] <PetefromTn_> I informed her that I was in the shop working on my lathe
[17:33:28] <PetefromTn_> she told me my grandmother got a call from some jackass saying that I was riding in a car with four other guys and got pulled over and there was drugs found in the car.
[17:33:49] <PetefromTn_> they told her I was in jail and needed $8,000 bail money ASAP
[17:34:19] <PetefromTn_> thankfully my 91 year old grandmother is NOT senile and called my mother before sending any money to these bastards...
[17:34:35] <PetefromTn_> nice that they prey on old ladies sympathies
[17:34:53] <jdh> she was just thinking "geez.. pete did this again?"
[17:34:53] <PetefromTn_> f*ckers
[17:35:01] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah right
[17:35:33] <PetefromTn_> I have honestly never been in trouble in my life aside from a speeding ticket I forgot to pay
[17:35:51] <jdh> wow, you must be boring :)
[17:36:19] <jdh> there are no records of me being in any trouble either.
[17:36:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah pretty boring
[17:36:40] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: 3 months
[17:36:55] <Loetmichel> and now you can see thru the bottom of the ss bin ,)
[17:36:59] <andypugh> I had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get a Visa to visit the USA because there was once a warrant out for my arrest in the US.
[17:37:20] <andypugh> And I am as squeaky-clean as it is possible to be.
[17:37:52] <PetefromTn_> Can you believe they purposely target poor old ladies like that.. sorry pieces of cow dung
[17:38:45] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn_: these are only one step up from pedophiles in prison.. and rightfully so
[17:39:37] <PetefromTn_> I have always loved how even criminals beat the shit out of pedophiles in prisons.... Even criminals know how terrible this is to hurt a child..
[17:40:13] <PetefromTn_> my grandmother did not know how to record the phone number not that it would probably help any
[17:40:52] <andypugh> There’s a big difference between being a paedophile and hurting children. Not all paedophiles are rapists.
[17:41:45] <andypugh> However, that is a discussion for a different forum.
[17:42:56] <PetefromTn_> in my view you hurt a child....no matter how....you deserve a slow painful death. but yeah that is indeed a topic for another forum
[17:54:01] <Loetmichel> andypugh: pedophiles in prison ARE usually rapists
[17:54:13] <Loetmichel> thats what i meant at least
[17:54:28] <andypugh> Well, those in prison for that rather than tax evasion, yes.
[17:54:35] <Loetmichel> yes
[17:55:36] <malcom2073> How many changegears does an old southbend 9C have? I just found a set, should help my lathe sell, but unsure if it's complete
[17:55:47] <malcom2073> I'm finding "sets" of 10-12 at random
[17:56:00] <Loetmichel> i wanted to say: those scammers that target old senile ladies are not very high in the prison ranking either
[17:56:11] <Loetmichel> they are scum even to other scum ;)
[17:57:40] <andypugh> malcom2073: Do you have the pitch tables, see if any are mentioned that you don’t have.
[17:58:09] <malcom2073> I don't, but I'll bet I can google for that, thanks
[18:03:58] <malcom2073> Hum, looks like the southbend manual has a rotary table lsited as an accessory for the lathe
[18:04:09] <malcom2073> I understand what a rotary indexing table would be for on a mill, but what for a lathe?
[18:04:51] <andypugh> Accessories to use lathes for milling were popular in the past.
[18:05:56] <furrywolf> yay! I did a useful thing despite my back sucking! the pier blocks on the part of the house with the sliding glass door have been settling unevenly, causing the door to scrape. I used my new electric scissors jack to jack it level and shim it.
[18:06:47] <andypugh> malcom2073: Have a look at the bottom half of this page for some amazing lathe accessories http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivettearly608/index.html
[18:08:14] <malcom2073> andypugh: Awesome
[18:09:58] <andypugh> You know we were talking about planers for metal yesterday? Well, I did some hand-planing of metal today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1XwgdnA93I
[18:10:39] <malcom2073> You people and your crazy scraping
[18:11:21] <Tom_itx> but it makes things work so wonderfully
[18:12:31] <PetefromTn_> that looks tiring
[18:13:35] <andypugh> It wasn’t super-hard work, but it took 90 mins.
[18:13:36] <PetefromTn_> how are you gauging your progress/success at making it straight and flat?
[18:15:18] <andypugh> I know that the top and bottom are straight and flat (checked with a flat), so I measure with a dowel and micrometer to the adjacent surface.
[18:16:16] <PetefromTn_> ok
[19:15:35] <MacGyverX> Question about soft limits, I just got my machine up and running. I can jog around with the pendant with no issue. but when I loaded up a test gcode file to air cut with, It tells me that joint 2 (Z Axis) is out of limits on line 4. Line 4 is G1 Z6.00 F775. In the con file Min is set to 0 and max is -99.0.
[19:15:43] <MacGyverX> Is there anything else I need to look at?
[19:16:20] <MacGyverX> As a side note, I can manually jog to the point where it does not allow the gcode to go to
[19:16:22] <andypugh> You need to “touch off” to set the Z = 0 somewhere inside the machine limits
[19:16:45] <MacGyverX> Is that different from G92 Z0?
[19:16:49] <andypugh> Yes
[19:17:16] <andypugh> You probably don’t want to be using G92
[19:17:41] <andypugh> Which GUI are you using?
[19:17:44] <MacGyverX> AXIS
[19:18:13] <andypugh> OK, so if you look in the graphical preview you will be able to see that your program is outside the limits box
[19:18:32] <MacGyverX> Its in the machine limit
[19:18:38] <MacGyverX> *inside
[19:18:51] <MacGyverX> I take it the dotted red box is the machine limit
[19:18:56] <andypugh> Yes
[19:19:04] <MacGyverX> Yeah it’s inside it
[19:19:16] <andypugh> Is it inside the top of the box too. if you orbit it round?
[19:20:19] <MacGyverX> Its lined up where the top of the test part is
[19:21:54] <andypugh> First MDI G92.2 just to clear that offset
[19:22:06] <MacGyverX> k
[19:22:23] <MacGyverX> Then a G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 A0?
[19:22:40] <andypugh> There is a button in Axis for that
[19:23:03] <andypugh> Just jog down to where you want the top of the job to be, then press the “touch off” button
[19:23:24] <andypugh> (Actually, select Z before you press the touch-off button)
[19:23:31] <MacGyverX> Ah okay
[19:23:52] <MacGyverX> But if wanted to do that from the pendant, the gcode above would work?
[19:24:01] <andypugh> Yes.
[19:24:05] <MacGyverX> Epic.
[19:24:07] <MacGyverX> Thanks
[20:28:25] <malcom2073> You know
[20:28:34] <malcom2073> For a light lathe, this 9c is freaking heavy.
[20:40:55] <furrywolf> apparantly the hot day is negatively affecting the power grid here... just about every city has had at least one major outage today according to the local paper.
[20:41:52] <malcom2073> Unfortunate
[20:42:26] <furrywolf> surprising, since no one here has a/c.
[20:42:29] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: move to south africa if you want a properly dysfunctional power supply.
[20:42:41] <SpeedEvil> Fun problems.
[20:42:48] <SpeedEvil> In the 80s they built too many power plants.
[20:42:53] <furrywolf> but apparantly a transformer overheated in the hot sun and failed, that took out four cities, and they're still diagnosing the rest of the outages.
[20:43:02] <furrywolf> one was a fire, again probably heat related.
[20:43:04] <SpeedEvil> Aluminium smelters and crap moved in because they had really, really cheap power.
[20:43:27] <SpeedEvil> Now, they're running on bare bones trying to do live maintainance of power stations with rolling blackouts expected for years
[20:43:59] <furrywolf> south africa has a lot more wrong than just power availability.
[20:44:10] <furrywolf> race relations, for one.
[20:44:12] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:44:15] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: quite
[20:45:21] <SpeedEvil> Still has way less black people incarcerated than the USA
[20:45:31] <furrywolf> lol
[20:45:41] <SpeedEvil> (per capita)
[20:46:58] <SpeedEvil> Actually - that's not true - the rates (for black people) are about the same.
[21:19:55] <zeeshan> andypugh nice planing
[21:26:17] <malcom2073> Well I'm down to $1000 on my Southbend 9C, still no bites :/
[21:31:45] <os1r1s> w00t. My mesa card finally got here
[21:35:24] <os1r1s> malcom2073: Looks like on ebay the Cs go for around 500
[21:56:15] <tjtr33> andypugh, yes nice planing, but how much are you cranking in each time!? ( good jig btw)
[21:57:23] <zeeshan> tjtr33: hes gone
[21:57:26] <zeeshan> he left us :[
[22:00:11] <tjtr33> domani, thx
[22:55:52] <trentster> Guys, you think it would be a usefull / helpful idea if I added a GRBL —> LinuxCNC migration guide to the wiki?
[22:56:32] <trentster> So folks who have working arduino settings can easily understand how to replicate the settings they have once coming to LinuxCNC.
[22:57:18] <trentster> For e.g. on the Arduino type "$$" which will give you all your current working settings and tell you ok - this is how you transfer them to linuxcnc?
[23:23:11] <furrywolf> put a new inverter in the other eu6500is, puts out over half power great, surges and backfires at low load. next step is to clean carb and adjust valves.
[23:27:55] <zeeshan> aluminum and steel
[23:28:02] <zeeshan> tried welding em tonight
[23:28:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2lYyMgi.jpg
[23:28:08] <zeeshan> :D
[23:28:25] <zeeshan> its safe to say it doesnt weld
[23:28:30] <zeeshan> or even "braze"
[23:32:34] <just_pink> zeeshan: I think just laser welding cad to it
[23:33:19] <just_pink> zeeshan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEQ0dL4R-rQ
[23:33:33] <zeeshan> just_pink: i know
[23:33:43] <os1r1s> Anyone know how I add a firmware or use a diff one than specified in the pncconf?
[23:33:43] <zeeshan> im using common brazing rod
[23:33:46] <zeeshan> not specialized rod
[23:34:06] <just_pink> on the vdeo thaey show how to do it with TIG
[23:34:19] <furrywolf> isn't aluminum to steel one of those things already known not to work? :)
[23:35:10] <zeeshan> furrywolf: wanted tos ee for myself
[23:35:50] <just_pink> maybe you need to try to make a layer of brazing on the aluminum, and than layr on the steel and than t connct the to layers
[23:38:01] <furrywolf> you have to use zinc braze to stick to aluminum. you could probably use that as an intermediate step.
[23:49:03] <furrywolf> if I worked at google, I'd write some kind of filter that attempts to determine sites with original content, and any site that has content copied off a site with original content would vanish from search results. scrape ebay? gone. scrape wikipedia? gone. etc.
[23:49:31] <furrywolf> I'm trying to find a manual for a case vibratory compactor, and google is putting spam above useful results, as always.