#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-27

[00:50:10] <XXCoder> wow!
[00:50:12] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxQ_NH4bj9o
[00:50:16] <XXCoder> very different cnc
[00:57:33] <XXCoder> another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UmL7xZZSUk
[01:32:08] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32IPBmcwplQ nice! lol
[01:37:49] <archivist> as bad as the little horrors here getting their balls back
[01:38:43] <XXCoder> lol
[01:39:00] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfxdeRx2fLA interesting video
[01:48:22] <XXCoder> glad it went okay
[01:48:26] <XXCoder> man it could be nasty
[01:48:32] <XXCoder> like crashing into driving car
[01:48:40] <XXCoder> he was wise to try aim to park trees
[01:59:41] <bobby_> hey ppl
[02:29:16] <Deejay__> moin
[02:32:58] <XXCoder> hey
[02:33:07] <Deej_ay> greetings
[02:39:30] <XXCoder> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150726-new-ikea-hack-lets-you-create-a-3d-printer-enclosure-for-cheap.html
[02:39:41] <XXCoder> it could work for small router too lol
[03:14:05] <Deej_ay> hihi, nice idea
[03:17:51] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:23:16] <archivist> visit the local DIY cutting dept scrap bin might get enough wood/mdf to make
[03:26:07] <XXCoder> I guess thats possible but not planning to build one
[04:07:35] <XXCoder> someone menioned someone using dozer and welding 2 inch steel to make a "tank". http://www.cracked.com/article_16611_5-real-world-criminals-who-were-certified-supervillains.html
[05:00:13] <Loetmichel> 2 inch mild steel? thats not a tank
[05:00:23] <Loetmichel> thats a armored transport at best
[05:01:31] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: it was two layers
[05:01:38] <XXCoder> with THICK concerete in between
[05:02:11] <XXCoder> they fired 200 rounds and all it did was damage it a little. It wasn't designed to allow person to exit once entered and sealed too
[05:02:29] <XXCoder> so it ended with sucuide
[05:03:29] <XXCoder> it was largely sealed too so gas couldnt affect him
[05:06:39] <Loetmichel> i've read it now
[05:06:49] <Loetmichel> pretty impressive if misguided
[05:06:57] <XXCoder> yeah way overreaction
[05:07:56] <Loetmichel> one thinks the easiest way to sop something like this would be to enguld it in fure supressant foam untoil the engien dies
[05:08:06] <Loetmichel> engulf
[05:08:13] <XXCoder> not bad idea
[05:08:21] <Loetmichel> i doubt he had enough oxygen for him AND the engine
[05:08:35] <XXCoder> there is lots anti-oxygen gas or powder too
[05:09:05] <XXCoder> other way is hyrogen. lots of it
[05:09:10] <XXCoder> it would ruin enginbe
[05:10:13] <XXCoder> pure oxy would work for that too I guess
[05:10:25] <XXCoder> it would get engine way out of balance and shut down
[05:10:39] <XXCoder> maybe enough time to do other stuff like foam pumping
[05:11:07] <Loetmichel> fire supressant foam is readily aviable to any fire truck
[05:11:09] <XXCoder> or maybe some of those expanding foam
[05:11:12] <Loetmichel> thats why i had that idea
[05:11:17] <XXCoder> try fill engine part with it
[05:11:37] <XXCoder> it would block some stuff as well as GREAT insulator. you do not want em around engine.
[05:11:40] <Loetmichel> just enguld him in a HUGE pile of it
[05:11:54] <Loetmichel> engulf
[05:12:02] <XXCoder> yeah short term disable would work so more time to spray tons of em
[05:12:22] <Loetmichel> those foam throwers even have a somehwat long throw so you dont hafe to get too near to the guns
[05:12:28] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:12:54] <XXCoder> wonder if huge surge of electicity would work
[05:13:18] <XXCoder> damage stuff as probably guy
[05:13:32] <Loetmichel> farady cage
[05:13:35] <Loetmichel> wont work
[05:13:45] <Loetmichel> +a
[05:14:37] <Loetmichel> other option would be to order a m1 abrams from the next army station to do the job
[05:14:42] <Loetmichel> somewhat terminal tho
[05:15:22] <XXCoder> or maybe enough to kill one track
[05:15:29] <XXCoder> that';d stop it dead
[05:15:33] <XXCoder> then foam bomb it
[05:15:49] <Loetmichel> or an a10-C do a strafe ;-)
[05:15:59] <Loetmichel> (maybe quicker at the place)
[05:17:25] <XXCoder> on that same article theres few other wtf ones too
[05:18:58] <Sync_> I'd probably just have gotten some concrete crash barriers and piled them
[05:19:19] <XXCoder> it has machine guns
[05:19:25] <XXCoder> get close enough and it shoots
[05:19:49] <XXCoder> before you wonder, it had few cameras too
[05:26:28] <Sync_> yeah but it is pretty predictable where he can go
[05:26:35] <Sync_> so you can just slowly block him in
[05:26:56] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:10:34] <trentster> howdy all - should there be any voltage bleed back between external drivers e.g. leadshine units back to a breakout board or controller
[06:12:18] <trentster> I noticed the other day when I was doing some linuxcnc vs grbl performance testing that even with external power 5v uplugged - the arduino or breakoutboard was getting powered when the drivers where on
[06:12:30] <trentster> where = were on
[06:13:06] <trentster> the drivers are connected to 48V power supply and the spindle is also connected to its own 48V power supply
[06:13:45] <trentster> Is this normal or should all input pins by default be protected by a diode that only allows power to flow in 1 direction?
[06:14:36] <SpeedEvil> trentster: 'all' ICs have internal static protection diodes - or parasitic diodes.
[06:15:01] <SpeedEvil> this means that if you supply an input while the device is unpowered, they will all get current routed to the supply pins.
[06:15:13] <SpeedEvil> In some cases this will be enough to make the device function.
[06:15:22] <SpeedEvil> In others, it will damage the pin.
[06:16:41] <trentster> SpeedEvil: so its considered normal then?
[06:17:20] <SpeedEvil> trentster: If there is a 5V output from the spindle/... to the arduino, then it may be powered to a degree
[06:17:25] <trentster> and in other words having drivers powered on while having breakout board psu off is dangerous
[06:17:50] <SpeedEvil> It's not good practice, and to decide if it's safe requires an in-depth study of stuff that is often poorly specified
[06:17:55] <trentster> SpeedEvil: yeah there is 5V from arduino to spindle
[06:18:56] <trentster> ok time for me to rewire my kill switch (emergency stop) I normally use this to switch machine off and on - but dont have it cutting 5V PSU to arduino or breakout baord.
[06:19:15] <trentster> guess this was a dumb mistake - assumption was that I didnt need to
[06:19:20] <trentster> ;-)
[06:19:45] <SpeedEvil> It is hard to say if it's absolutely required.
[06:20:01] <trentster> So the only rule is that there are no rules :P
[06:21:45] <SpeedEvil> The rule is that the rules are obscure and often poorly documented.
[06:22:04] <trentster> I actually dont trust this cheap chinese spindle driver - it sometimes goes into fault mode as well (red error light) which is kind of a pita when a "M3 S12000" command gets sent and it does nothing
[06:22:50] <trentster> The rule is "ask in this channel and normally someone a lot smarter than me knows the answer" :-)
[06:33:45] <archivist> stepper drivers of any quality have an opto input there is no possibility of voltage feedback with those
[06:35:00] <archivist> leadshine being a better make, so if you think you are measuring a voltage I bet its a ground loop of some sort (common mode current)
[06:36:15] <trentster> archivist: its probably from the spindle driver
[06:36:32] <archivist> I had to look inside a leadshine to debug why a crap breakout board did not drive the leadshine properly
[06:37:31] <archivist> spindle drivers should also be opto isolated for safety
[06:38:11] <archivist> this can sometimes be done on the breakout board
[06:39:45] <archivist> this means some effort in diagnosis of current paths
[06:57:53] <trentster> archivist: its never easy mate, is it! - sigh ;-)
[06:57:58] <trentster> multimeter time
[06:58:23] <trentster> *trentster pulls out the fluke out its holster and gets ready for action*
[06:59:31] <archivist> I use a Solartron
[06:59:50] <archivist> or some cheap crap to hand
[07:00:21] <trentster> I used cheap crap first time - second time bought a fluke - got a good deal on it
[07:00:34] <trentster> you need a decent multimeter for electronics stuff generally
[07:00:57] <trentster> next project will be building a cheapie oscilloscope - dont have money for expensive stuff
[07:01:07] <Sync_> buy a rigol
[07:01:12] <Sync_> it will be cheaper after all
[07:01:49] <trentster> Sync_: yeah lot of people rave about the Rigols, especially after firmaware hack whic doubles the Hz rating
[07:02:38] <archivist> second hand scopes are usable for repair/diagnosis
[07:03:09] <trentster> analog scopes are pretty good for most things - just that tube is hardcore tho
[07:03:23] <Sync_> there is no point in getting something second hand or analog anymore
[07:03:35] <trentster> Sync_: why?
[07:03:55] <Sync_> because for general applications just getting a rigol is sufficient
[07:04:13] <Sync_> and they are cheap enough
[07:04:25] <archivist> never as cheap as free
[07:04:42] <Sync_> sure but I would not take an analog scope for free
[07:04:44] <archivist> not everyone can afford new
[07:04:57] <trentster> Sync_: They are still pretty expensive like a couple hundred bucks right?
[07:05:14] <archivist> I use analogue more often than digital
[07:05:32] <archivist> and I have both
[07:05:38] <trentster> archivist: do you have a digital if not makes sense.
[07:05:50] <trentster> you only have a choice to use analog :P
[07:05:55] <Sync_> they are like 350€
[07:06:38] <archivist> I have 8 channel digital HP and others
[07:07:20] <trentster> Sync_: thats still a ton of money for a lot of folks
[07:07:23] <archivist> 4 scopes in use at the moment
[07:08:06] <archivist> my combined digital logic analyser and digital scope was a freeby too :)
[07:08:12] <archivist> old HP
[07:08:46] <trentster> archivist: a freeby - you must teach me that trick, does it involve bolt cutters and a balaclava ?
[07:08:51] <Sync_> maybe trentster, but still cheap enough to be affordable, saving up to 350€ is not that hard
[07:09:37] <archivist> trentster, nope, all legit, thrown out as old crap from a running company
[07:09:57] <trentster> Sync_: I guess if its the only thing a person is saving for - I think I will save for a 2.2Kw spindle + VFD before that tho…
[07:09:58] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2006/2006_04_09_skeleton_base/P4082268.JPG
[07:11:02] <Sync_> ah those
[07:11:39] <archivist> just moving my gear about, fired it up for the first time in nearly 10 years a few days ago
[07:12:02] <Sync_> I just bought a mdo3104, seems to be pretty decent
[07:12:07] <archivist> noisy fan grrrrrr
[07:13:13] <archivist> often use an old Advance scope for about the house work
[07:13:55] <Sync_> the only annoying thing are the tekvpi probes
[07:14:09] <Sync_> and that they are software crippling the things, too
[07:14:21] <Sync_> but I guess that is to be expected in the low/mid range
[07:15:48] <archivist> one of my old Teks has passed on, a storage 7613 mostly works except the storage :)
[07:16:53] <archivist> but I like old stuff http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lounge+electronics+bench
[07:20:09] <Sync_> I started throwing out a lot of old stuff because modern equipment can do it in a lot less space
[07:20:49] <Spida> trentster: a cheap oszilloscope like the red pitaya? ( http://redpitaya.com/ )
[07:20:52] <trentster> Sync_: which Rigol do you suggest ?
[07:21:04] <Sync_> ds1054z
[07:21:11] <Sync_> Spida: that is not a real scope
[07:22:12] <trentster> Really high end scope :P http://makezine.com/projects/sound-card-oscilloscope/
[07:23:47] <archivist> under the floor low end
[07:26:45] <trentster> it beats having nothing and using ESP I suppose
[08:48:24] <CaptHindsight> "Ryan Slaugh is a hardware and software engineer with over 15 years of experience designing and building different systems. While he has a few college degrees," he still posted this pic as an example of his skills http://i1.wp.com/cdn.makezine.com/uploads/2014/08/herocrop.jpg?resize=620%2C439
[08:49:50] <CaptHindsight> the pots were scrounged from a 1965 Admiral TV and the soldering iron used is a 150W Craftsman Pistol from 1972
[08:50:29] <furrywolf> lol
[08:52:24] <SpeedEvil> What skillz
[08:54:01] <furrywolf> perhaps that's the most complicated thing he's built?
[08:54:59] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/ww1.jpg there's something I made way-back-when, speaking of '70s skills. :P
[08:57:10] <archivist> one needs skillz for crocodile clipz
[09:01:25] <skunkworks> never got into wirewrap
[09:01:43] <skunkworks> I would etch my own boards.
[09:03:01] <CaptHindsight> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Computerplatine_Wire-wrap_backplane_detail_Z80_Doppel-Europa-Format_1977_%28close_up%29.jpg
[09:04:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/fp_wire_wrap_side.jpg those were the days
[09:05:26] <archivist> ratus nestus
[09:11:55] <ssi> morn
[09:12:29] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cincinnatimi/AcramatiV.JPG
[09:12:51] <ssi> skunkworks: that's what the back of my HNC control looked like :P
[09:13:03] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: does it still run?
[09:13:08] <skunkworks> I am trying to find the picture of the K&T..
[09:13:11] <skunkworks> no
[09:13:20] <skunkworks> well - it did until we scrapped it.
[09:13:36] <CaptHindsight> what was the timer for?
[09:13:59] <skunkworks> I don't remember. oiler maybe
[09:14:17] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/431058_808115768072_823586676_n.jpg?oh=68dd9d389265d2e9603284b12c73ee52&oe=56485EB7
[09:14:21] <ssi> there's the HNC
[09:17:41] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/control.jpg
[09:18:09] <ssi> scurry
[09:18:23] <CaptHindsight> most of those wires are just for show anyway :)
[09:27:35] <CaptHindsight> archivist: you had 405 line and then later went to 625 line TV?
[09:27:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.oldtechnology.net/mono.html
[09:28:41] <ssi> oh god we're all doomed
[09:28:41] <ssi> http://makerplane.org
[09:28:49] <archivist> CaptHindsight, yes
[09:29:23] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I have an old 1956 TV in the loft
[09:29:30] <CaptHindsight> ssi: the problem might fix itself
[09:29:37] <ssi> :D
[09:29:47] <ssi> ffs
[09:29:53] <ssi> they designed a stick shaker
[09:30:03] <ssi> small airplanes don't need stick shakers
[09:30:34] <ssi> stall causes a buffet which you can feel in the controls... the reason big jets have stick shakers is because they have hydraulically actuated controls which don't allow any feel back up through the system
[09:30:42] <ssi> the shaker simulates the feel of the stall
[09:31:51] <archivist> CaptHindsight, when I was a lad I was fixing that stuff :)
[09:33:29] <CaptHindsight> archivist: was the 625 backwards compatible or did they just change to 625 PAL and leave 405 behind?
[09:34:14] <archivist> CaptHindsight, we had dual standard TVs for a long time during the transition
[09:34:30] <furrywolf> I seem to remember reading that not avoiding, not noticing, and not getting out of stalls was one of the major causes of ga accidents...
[09:34:32] <CaptHindsight> oh I see now 405 on VHF, 625 UHF
[09:34:57] <archivist> even some studio cameras were dual standard
[09:34:59] <furrywolf> or doing stupid things like deciding to pull back on the stick and hold it there was the right way to get out of a stall.
[09:35:01] <ssi> yeah but it's mostly the base to final stall spin accident pattern
[09:35:13] <ssi> and that's mostly because people are idiots and they have shitty instructors
[09:35:48] <furrywolf> of course, like too many sites with "maker" in the name, they can't even make a working website.
[09:35:53] <ssi> point is, yo dawg I built a stick shaker so you can shake your stick while the stick is shaking
[09:35:59] <furrywolf> if you can't write a website, I'm not running your avionics software.
[09:37:49] <furrywolf> lol, and they tell you that in order to use their website, you need to have a current version of firefox. I have a new version of firefox.
[09:38:17] <Sync_> ssi: yeah in most small planes a stick shaker is complete bullshit
[09:38:32] <CaptHindsight> ssi: weren't there a lot of accidents when ultralights were first popular?
[09:38:47] <ssi> ultralights still have a crappy accident record
[09:38:54] <Sync_> there still are, as people in ultralights don't know how to fly
[09:38:55] <ssi> there's no training requirement for them, so that math is pretty easy to do :)
[09:39:05] <Sync_> and some of the ultralights have ugly performance
[09:39:14] <CaptHindsight> I recall lots of deaths due to stalls on first flights
[09:39:38] <ssi> that's likely failure to observe CG limits on first flight
[09:39:42] <furrywolf> I think part of that is this country's definition of ultralight being a lot lighter than everywhere else, resulting in fragile construction to stay under the weight limit.
[09:39:44] <furrywolf> bbl
[09:42:58] <CaptHindsight> archivist: same here, we used to build antennas to try and get stations from outside the general coverage area
[09:44:04] <CaptHindsight> archivist: approaching storms at night would sometime get us stations from >100 miles away
[09:44:11] <archivist> CaptHindsight, I hacked the 405 to go up to 819 to see french tv, managed for a second or two at most
[09:44:56] <archivist> some sunspot activity would get much further
[09:45:24] <CaptHindsight> archivist: similar here, sometimes it lasted for hours
[09:51:09] <ssi> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/155820066/belite-skydock
[09:51:15] <ssi> wow that one actually isn't some sort of makerjoke
[09:52:45] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[09:52:48] <SpeedEvil> It's not 3d printed
[09:53:08] <ssi> correct!
[09:53:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-lego-aircraft#/story
[09:53:35] <CaptHindsight> stays safely on the ground
[09:53:52] <ssi> lolol
[09:54:23] <ssi> they want 1.3 million dollars for that?!
[09:54:34] <CaptHindsight> $1,300,000 USD goal "we need more than 800'000 lego pieces"
[09:55:22] <ssi> imagine if these morons put their time and energy to use on practical things
[09:55:51] <CaptHindsight> I keep saying that but "you can't tell me what to do"
[09:56:48] <ssi> lolol
[09:59:12] <SpeedEvil> Meh.
[09:59:15] <SpeedEvil> Lacking ambition.
[09:59:25] <SpeedEvil> Full-sized lego replica of the ncc-1701d
[10:00:46] <CaptHindsight> parts of the problem is when parents treat their kids like everything they do is perfect, even their "perfect" poops are saved in a museum case
[10:01:04] <CaptHindsight> how does one learn about quality?
[10:09:10] <archivist> hehe parents polishing the kids turds
[11:28:47] <zeeshan> whats with the million of wires going in both your machines ssi and skunkworks
[11:31:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: in ye olden days of CNC it was more common to make low volume circuits in that fashion
[11:32:22] <zeeshan> o
[11:34:23] <CaptHindsight> circuits made with tubes would often try to only have components soldered to the sockets and not a pcb
[11:36:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.junkbox.com/electronics/6T9AmpUnderChassis.jpg
[11:37:10] <archivist> far too tidy, you should see a KB colour tv done that way
[11:37:52] <CaptHindsight> heh, i tried to find pics
[11:38:46] <archivist> the dual standard mono http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolsterbr_aristocrat_wv70.html?sa=X&ved=0CCAQ9QEwBWoVChMIqozWudr7xgIVAo7bCh1EYAnq
[11:39:14] <ssi> zeeshan: wire wrap backplanes like that are what they used instead of a motherboard
[11:39:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.antiqueradio.org/art/PilotFirstLook05.jpg
[11:39:27] <ssi> the whole control is just 5V ttl logic cards, and they're wired together with wirewrap
[11:40:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.jameco.com/jameco/workshop/techtip/wirewrap.html Wire Wrapping: Cleaner, Faster, Safer Electronic Design LOL
[11:42:59] <zeeshan> im glad i havent dealt wit hthat shit
[11:43:08] <CaptHindsight> archivist: when each set has 8+ knobs to adjust horiz, vert, etc
[11:44:16] <archivist> the internal setting up of the philips colour convergence had around 30 things to adjust in a darkened room
[11:45:39] <archivist> bar steward to work on http://www.philipstv.org.uk/blog/early-philips-colour-tv/g6/g6-chassis-design/?sa=X&ved=0CBYQ9QEwAGoVChMIhLqehdz7xgIVYSrbCh1ekg-n
[11:45:58] <CaptHindsight> ~1980 the monitors in video game consoles had no convergence adjust, we used to do it with a glue gun and magnets stuck to cardboard
[11:46:47] <kanzure> CaptHindsight: sorry about the lack of progress in hplus
[11:47:19] <archivist> I remember one bad day of about 3 hours at a customers house
[11:47:34] <CaptHindsight> kanzure: no problem, you know where to find me
[11:48:40] <kanzure> CaptHindsight: i wish this technology was easier, but it's not. like, if we were doing dna hybridization arrays, i think your plan would have been fine.
[11:48:41] <CaptHindsight> archivist: then you turn the set 90 degrees and it's all back out again :)
[11:49:39] <archivist> magnetic radiator on the domestic heating system
[11:53:39] <CaptHindsight> archivist: we'd hot melt small magnets between the yolk and the crt taped to cardboard so you wouldn't get zapped poking it around
[11:54:02] <CaptHindsight> yolk/toke
[11:54:09] <CaptHindsight> yoke
[11:54:14] <ssi> get it right!
[11:54:22] <CaptHindsight> need new fingers
[11:55:08] * furrywolf needs a new back
[12:01:39] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: diddn't you say you just bought some piano hinges
[12:02:53] <furrywolf> just is now two months ago, but yes.
[12:27:02] <lair82> cradek, I am going to run that bisect, between 2.6.5 and 2.6.6. Which release should I be in when doing this? and I need to re-compile after between each of the bisect's correct?
[12:31:26] <SolarNRG> hi guys I'm no longer working with 1mm stainless, it's a pain in the a$$ to weld without burning holes in. I've now sourced some 316l 4mm thick stainless and I've been using the 2mm welding rods up to this point at 90 amps, I'm now on 3.5mm stainless rods what ampage is optimal so I don't spatter too high or stick too low?
[12:31:36] <SolarNRG> I'm guessing 110amps but I wanted to hear your input
[12:31:49] <SolarNRG> Cos I'm broke I only got 7 3.5mm welding rods so I have to ration them careful
[12:32:45] <CaptHindsight> lair82: did you ever find out what was eating your data on the HD?
[12:33:48] <SolarNRG> anyone in here does stickwelding of stainless?
[12:35:48] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: copper backer block
[12:36:27] <MrSunshine> https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t34.0-12/11780493_10153475483803648_1207733343_n.jpg?_nc_eui=AWh37j89bmRQCjIsywYrRNgfAJXHux0wnc-0SQ&oh=1638b14280988ea2d0e1c01d66d6b25d&oe=55B940B2 that will have to do ... cant get this freakin alu any chinier :/
[12:36:35] <MrSunshine> shinier
[12:40:22] <archivist> what metal polish
[12:40:47] <archivist> and file out the hammer marks before polish :)
[12:41:22] <MrSunshine> hammer marks are intentional =)
[12:41:38] <MrSunshine> 2000 paper then autosol and then rubbing
[12:43:30] <MrSunshine> aluminium is a freakin nightmare ive found ... scratches if you fart :P
[12:46:03] <PetefromTn_> looks nice man!
[12:46:16] <PetefromTn_> what sort of amp is that?
[12:46:26] <MrSunshine> single ended tube amp its supposed to become
[12:46:53] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[12:46:54] <MrSunshine> gonna go to the guy helping me with the black magic tomrrow =)
[12:47:09] <PetefromTn_> ?
[12:47:12] <MrSunshine> so hopefully will get sound out of it by tomorrow night
[12:47:18] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn_: tubes are frekkin black magic
[12:47:22] <ssi> nahh
[12:47:24] <MrSunshine> electrozisers jumping in air
[12:47:32] <PetefromTn_> gotta put the sound in it before you can get it out hehe
[12:47:33] <MrSunshine> transistors atleast are connected
[12:47:42] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn_: wtf ...
[12:47:45] <MrSunshine> no one told me that :/
[12:47:59] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[12:48:45] <MrSunshine> probably will scratch the plate up tomorrow as the holes for the sube sockets mounting isnt done .. as i want to see from what angle the most of the orange glow will show the most =)
[12:49:06] <MrSunshine> will have to put some tape on when drilling or something
[12:49:27] <ssi> MrSunshine: https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p206x206/1601249_10100298818941952_1146233300_n.jpg?oh=68705da71c18f3b8411d39ccae535a19&oe=5614C387
[12:49:35] <ssi> MrSunshine: https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/1495198_10100298818897042_727989213_o.jpg
[12:50:06] <MrSunshine> =)
[12:50:07] <MrSunshine> cool
[12:51:13] <SolarNRG> SpeedEvil, good suggestion but I don't have one, I know there's one in the power station, but I'm not touching it unless I can isolate the power
[12:51:19] <archivist> MrSunshine, dont miss steps when going up the wet and dry grades and 3M produce some even finer for very good polish
[12:51:20] <zeeshan> i have 2x 2" face mills on their own .75" shank shell mill holders
[12:51:41] <SolarNRG> also I'm broke and I can't afford to simply buy one
[12:52:02] <PetefromTn_> meh I have polished TONS of aluminum over the years and seldom used more than three different grades....
[12:52:22] <zeeshan> is there any reason to keep around a .5", 1" and 1.25" shell mill holder?
[12:52:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/vFuuBM9.jpg
[12:52:30] * zeeshan ios trying to empty tool rack
[12:52:36] <archivist> MrSunshine, https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/micron-paper-3m
[12:52:40] <MrSunshine> ive used 320, 400, 600, 1200, 2000 and then autosol like 3 times in different configurations and then rubbing on that
[12:53:11] <SolarNRG> PetefromTn_, same here worked with 3 types of ally, I know there are other specialized types of ally like Al-LI, aluminium lithium I nearly bought an offcut for 150 bucks once jsut to see what it was like but I ended up spending the money on something else when I had it, that was a long time ago
[12:53:17] <PetefromTn_> often just a good buffing wheel will take care of things after a good scuffing
[12:53:25] <archivist> the white 3m gets a mirror finish
[12:54:25] <archivist> I keep that for best, autosol for the ordinary jobs
[12:55:03] <archivist> and for cast iron, let the paper fill then it polishes
[12:55:05] <MrSunshine> i guess i can dry polish it later, wont be able without soldering to remove the top from it again after tomorrow =)
[12:56:37] <archivist> the rag/whatever matters when using autosol, some can scratch
[12:57:09] <archivist> kitchen roll paper can be abrasive
[12:58:15] <MrSunshine> using micro fibre
[12:58:37] <ssi> zeeshan: you can send them to me
[12:58:54] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: any chunky bit of copper or aluminium
[12:59:08] <SpeedEvil> Aluminium isn't as good, but works fine
[13:00:04] <SolarNRG> I got aluminium 1mm sheet and I got aluminium pipe again 1mm oh and I have beer cans <1mm
[13:00:20] <SolarNRG> I got loads of steel and stainless tho
[13:01:15] <SolarNRG> I know where there is a big copper bus bar but I won't even touch it because there's like lots of power going across/thru it
[13:01:36] <SolarNRG> all i no is if i touch it i might go bzzz bang
[13:01:47] <zeeshan> ssi fu
[13:01:48] <zeeshan> lol
[13:01:51] <SolarNRG> and even if i did take it out I'd be without power so I wouldn't be able to weld
[13:01:56] <zeeshan> im just wondering if ill ever need these for a bigger face mill
[13:02:09] <zeeshan> bigger face mills dont make sense to me for a home shop cause like you can do the same thing with a fly cutter
[13:02:13] <zeeshan> its just slower
[13:02:54] <ssi> baw
[13:03:10] <ssi> I have like a 2" facemill on R8
[13:03:13] <ssi> I need to get a CAT40 one
[13:03:21] <ssi> maybe a big bastard, 4" or so
[13:03:38] <zeeshan> hmm
[13:03:41] <zeeshan> why though
[13:03:46] <zeeshan> why not flycut it?
[13:03:48] <ssi> MRR :D
[13:03:56] <zeeshan> yea but youre not doing production
[13:03:58] <zeeshan> does it really matter?
[13:04:03] <ssi> it always matters
[13:04:05] <zeeshan> convince me to sell this
[13:04:06] <zeeshan> haha
[13:04:08] <zeeshan> not keep em!
[13:04:18] <archivist> cylinder head facing
[13:04:32] <zeeshan> you could do it with flycutter archivist
[13:04:37] <ssi> facemills are more repeatable than flycutters
[13:04:57] <archivist> except when you have a crappy mill
[13:05:28] <zeeshan> fak it ill keep em
[13:05:33] <ssi> mail them to me
[13:05:33] <zeeshan> =/
[13:05:37] <ssi> hurryyyyy
[13:05:47] <archivist> we got a saw tooth form, spindle was not perpendicular
[13:05:48] <zeeshan> this means i need more cat40 tool rack holders
[13:05:57] <PetefromTn_> he never had any intention of selling them this was just his way of showing off heh
[13:06:08] <ssi> lawl
[13:06:09] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: no, i am cleaning up rack space
[13:06:13] <zeeshan> i actually mounted all pull studs
[13:06:15] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm flying my deathtrap to the bahamas on thursday :D
[13:06:15] <PetefromTn_> uh huh
[13:06:16] <zeeshan> indexed all my tools
[13:06:23] <zeeshan> and getting rid of stuff that has no pull studs
[13:06:33] <archivist> get mooooore studs
[13:06:38] <zeeshan> they are $$$
[13:06:42] <zeeshan> i dont wanna waste $ on studs right now
[13:06:45] <zeeshan> or another face mill
[13:06:48] <PetefromTn_> ssi good luck maybe you can spot those poor kis on the way over..
[13:06:49] <zeeshan> i need a real cnc lathe first
[13:06:49] <archivist> you do!
[13:07:00] <ssi> heheh
[13:07:12] <ssi> it's gonna be scary
[13:07:17] <ssi> 340nm of open water
[13:07:37] <PetefromTn_> dontcha just fly south and then turn left?
[13:07:46] <ssi> bahamas is east of florida
[13:08:03] <zeeshan> fly through the bermuda triangle
[13:08:06] <zeeshan> lemme know what happens
[13:08:15] <ssi> it's not really a thing anymore
[13:08:18] <PetefromTn_> yes I know I lived in South florida most of my life and been to Bahamas a number of times
[13:08:18] <ssi> since gps happened
[13:08:26] <zeeshan> shure
[13:08:34] <zeeshan> http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/files/2014/01/bermudatriangle.jpg
[13:08:37] <zeeshan> this is what happens to planes there
[13:08:47] <ssi> lol
[13:08:48] <zeeshan> they get sucked in by a massive random gaping hole in the ocean
[13:09:01] <ssi> I'm willing to take that risk :)
[13:09:05] <zeeshan> hehe
[13:09:30] <PetefromTn_> I have always wanted to sail there
[13:10:27] <MrSunshine> 340 nanometers of open water ?
[13:10:30] <MrSunshine> now thats some ocean!
[13:10:35] <ssi> yeah should be quick
[13:20:05] <naja452> Hello all
[13:21:13] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, you know where all those wires go ehh?
[13:21:26] <Tom_itx> wow, scrollback sure bit my arse today..
[13:22:17] <skunkworks> Tom_itx, yes
[13:22:18] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/panel/electricalbox.jpg
[13:24:47] <archivist> that is like one picture tilted on a wall want to move the bottom middle right thing
[13:25:25] <naja452> Archivist : you online?
[13:25:46] <archivist> mebe
[13:26:00] <PetefromTn_> lol
[13:26:22] * archivist slowly shuffles stage left
[13:26:24] <naja452> Lol, ok. Remember my weird step jumping issue last night?
[13:26:53] <archivist> and is it fixed
[13:27:37] <naja452> Nope, i have confirmed 100% it is not skipping steps though. Nothing skipping.
[13:27:54] <archivist> and any pictures of the machine and the motors
[13:28:01] <naja452> I also did accel tests, nothing is jumping slipping or otherwise misbehaving.
[13:28:11] <archivist> how can you be so sure
[13:28:43] <archivist> I come at this with bitter experience
[13:29:13] <archivist> do all the testing but real life is not the same when machining
[13:29:19] <naja452> I homed it to a spot on the bed the whipped it around really fast on all axis. Sent it home. Perfectly aligned
[13:29:56] <archivist> no cutting load, now dump a large item on the bed
[13:29:59] <Tom_itx> did it go an inch when you told it to go an inch?
[13:30:32] <Tom_itx> my dogs usually find their way back home too
[13:30:46] <zeeshan> yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[13:30:51] <zeeshan> i found more deckel pull studs!!!!!!!!!
[13:31:00] <Tom_itx> you hope
[13:31:25] <Tom_itx> maybe i can find the source of my digital noise later today
[13:31:27] <archivist> eg I tested with what I thought was an excess load http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cnc+pd+load
[13:31:42] <Tom_itx> then i think i'll have the control whipped
[13:31:50] <zeeshan> archivist: can i have those v blocks
[13:31:55] <zeeshan> i actually need large ones like that
[13:32:03] <archivist> but under real world conditions with an unbalanced load there was step loss
[13:32:19] <archivist> n bloody o
[13:32:43] <zeeshan> mean
[13:32:44] <zeeshan> so mean
[13:32:56] * archivist hides them with all the other bits zeeshan wants
[13:33:05] <zeeshan> you have a couple things i want :{
[13:33:20] <zeeshan> one day when i come to england, they will be mine
[13:33:28] <archivist> swap for the mikron?
[13:33:28] <Tom_itx> hide them in different spots else he find them all at once
[13:33:33] <zeeshan> haha
[13:33:56] <zeeshan> out of my v-block collection
[13:34:02] <zeeshan> the largest one is meant for 1.75"
[13:34:05] <zeeshan> tube..
[13:34:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/EjKMccG.jpg
[13:34:23] <archivist> those I get army surplus
[13:34:36] <zeeshan> i need v-blocks so i can mount this 2.375 pipe on them
[13:34:41] <zeeshan> so i can face the flanges in the near future
[13:34:55] <Tom_itx> man... who did those welds...
[13:35:12] <zeeshan> i know they are ugly :P
[13:35:18] <archivist> wernt me guv
[13:35:24] <zeeshan> this is what happens when i know they will be ceramic coated
[13:35:28] <zeeshan> and wrapped in header wrap
[13:35:35] <zeeshan> you stop caring :)
[13:35:38] <Tom_itx> better than what i would have done probably
[13:36:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/qqXS7Uj.jpg
[13:36:02] <zeeshan> they arent too bad :[
[13:36:20] <PetefromTn_> jeez man something stinks in here....Oh
[13:36:22] <Tom_itx> now go anneal the whole thing so they don't crack
[13:36:35] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: that is the next step after i am done welding one more fitting on them
[13:36:43] <zeeshan> im gonna anneal em and see if the flanges come back t o their original shape
[13:36:48] <zeeshan> i doubt they will, but its worth a try
[13:37:02] <zeeshan> they are wrapped by about 12 thou
[13:37:05] <zeeshan> *warpped
[13:37:07] <zeeshan> typical
[13:37:10] <archivist> naja452, proof would be adding encoder feedback
[13:37:15] <Tom_itx> if you don't, they will. if you do they won't anyway
[13:37:43] <zeeshan> what
[13:38:15] <archivist> naja452, my ears are tuned to the noise a steeper makes when it misses, I heard the different sound
[13:38:32] <zeeshan> archivist: he can just mount a microphone to his stepper
[13:38:40] <zeeshan> and then do an analysis after
[13:38:53] <archivist> naja452, one other error to watch for is the signal timing during a reverse
[13:38:58] <zeeshan> fft should show a frequency peak
[13:39:10] <archivist> noise peak too
[13:39:48] <archivist> a peak at the wrong frequency too
[13:40:09] <PetefromTn_> damn steppers ;)
[13:40:15] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: ikr
[13:40:20] <zeeshan> garbage!
[13:40:32] <archivist> naja452, the drivers have a setup time for the direction signal before you should step
[13:42:02] <archivist> do a longer reversal test backing into a DTI to see if it creeps and how much per cycle
[13:42:44] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if I can swap out the steppers in my HP printer for SERVOS!!
[13:44:02] <archivist> one of the early printers I worked on had a DC servo controlled by a crude loop
[13:46:08] <Tom_itx> i bet my first laserjet weighed about the same as 10 current day ones
[13:46:10] <archivist> let a counter run and interrupt if leading opto off else on rinse repeat
[13:47:43] <PetefromTn_> it was probably ten times the machine too
[13:48:04] <lair82> CaptHindsight, I don't really know, but the problem hasn't come back, Thank God!!!!!!! :)
[13:48:16] <CaptHindsight> \0/
[13:49:45] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: rofl
[13:49:49] <zeeshan> hahahaha
[13:50:27] <PetefromTn_> I'm here all week
[13:51:37] <CaptHindsight> just stepper motors and no encoder strip like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Encoder-Strip-for-Encad-NovaJet-500-505-600-630-700-736-750-Printer-/300990530768?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46146f04d0
[13:52:28] <archivist> servo and encoder strip
[13:53:20] <archivist> I wonder which printer used that first
[13:53:51] <archivist> canon PJ1080 or A1210 was the first I saw
[14:06:46] <Roguish> hey. anyone ever make a grinder/buffer? i need to mount a large wire wheel (for polishing/deburring) on a motor shaft. what's the usual method?
[14:07:05] <Roguish> 2 hp motor, 10" wire wheel
[14:07:06] <cradek> same as a bench grinder, I think
[14:07:32] <archivist> I have a brush on a bench grinder
[14:07:34] <cradek> a jeweler's buffer has a tapered arbor that you just set the buffing wheel on
[14:07:46] <cradek> when it spins up it locks in place
[14:08:01] <cradek> (you spend a lot of time swapping them around, so it's nice it's so fast)
[14:08:15] <archivist> wire brushes dont normally have the soft centre for the tapered screw
[14:08:16] <Roguish> this is to be pretty big, and very industrial. custom machine.
[14:08:33] <cradek> yeah that's bench grinder territory, big washer and nut
[14:08:44] <Roguish> threads on motor shaft??????
[14:08:57] <cradek> haven't you seen a grinder?
[14:09:56] <Roguish> all the ready made grinder/buffers are double ended. http://www.baldor.com/brands/baldor-reliance/products/motors/grinders--buffers--lathes/buffers
[14:10:32] <skunkworks> something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPINDLE-LEFT-1-2-ARBOR-STRAIGHT-SHAFT-FOR-MOTOR-GRINDER-WHEEL-1-2-HOLDER-L-/200774160365?hash=item2ebf128fed
[14:10:36] <archivist> I do a lot of restoration type cleaning with wire brush mounted on something (vertical drill stand as well)
[14:10:48] <Roguish> i have a long thin steel bar to clean up both sides at the same time.
[14:11:33] <Roguish> archivist: yes, i've seen those. just not sure it's robust enough. and don't like the set screws.
[14:11:52] <archivist> there was a video earlier that had a cnc with the wire brush as a deburr tool
[14:12:21] <archivist> no set screw involved
[14:12:59] <archivist> twisted wire brush for violence :)
[14:13:12] <Roguish> my parts are about 1/4" x 1" x 20 ft. i have a fixture to hold, guide and drive them. want to mount the motors shaft vertically with wheels in horiz plane.
[14:14:06] <Roguish> http://www.weilercorp.com/power-brushes
[14:14:21] <Roguish> Power Brush Wire Wheels
[14:14:28] <archivist> only problem is the best performance means more flying debris
[14:15:18] <archivist> I use cup, angle and flat
[14:16:11] <Roguish> I have the wire wheel brush selected. now need to mount it onto a good industrial motor shaft.
[14:17:09] <archivist> make sure it is adjustable for wheel wear
[15:56:22] <PetefromTn_> I think I am finally reaching the end of the tunnel on cleaning up the years of gunk off this CNC lathe finally heh
[15:56:48] <XXCoder> lol
[15:57:49] <PetefromTn_> thank the good Lord for Greased Lighning that stuff is incredible..
[15:58:15] <PetefromTn_> I have also been tidying up things and prepping the removable parts for the paint job.
[15:58:40] <XXCoder> wonder how they capture lightining and then grease em
[16:09:56] <PetefromTn_> dunno but I do know this stuff cuts thru some heavy nasty chip filled grease pretty easily... there is just so many areas that are in the enclosure and on the base of the machine that have not been cleaned for a very long time.
[16:23:09] <Deejay> gn8
[16:35:10] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj2-Jhpt2hY 'My planer is considerably bigger than you'
[16:36:06] <andypugh> I want to find a planer locally to re-machine my Rivett lathe dovetail
[16:36:36] <zeeshan> hes been working on that for 3 years
[16:36:41] <zeeshan> been following him
[16:36:48] <andypugh> Planers are cool
[16:36:49] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[16:37:06] <SpeedEvil> His videos are so slow. But quite watchable
[16:37:14] <andypugh> I would expect the belt to be running crossed
[16:37:50] <andypugh> Ah, wait, that isn’t the sort of planer I was expecting
[16:37:59] <PetefromTn_> jeez that looks like a machine that should be called the Widowmaker...
[16:38:56] <SpeedEvil> It does not look OHSA compliant
[16:40:53] <andypugh> I was expecting this sort of planer (and this is what I want to find some time on locally) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4kPDhrhlgk
[16:41:21] <PetefromTn_> like a monster shaper
[16:41:47] <andypugh> Yes, the distinction between a planer and a shaper is if the tool or the work moves.
[16:42:04] <PetefromTn_> sure
[16:42:14] <PetefromTn_> I noticed it also does not have a clapper
[16:43:07] <fenn> i was expecting something like this 40 foot planer (bad picture sorry) http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0385.jpg
[16:44:16] <andypugh> Stuart Stevenson has a sectional plano-miller. I don’t know how long that is with all the bits bolted together, but "vast" is a close estimate
[16:45:40] <malcom2073> That giant planer would be perfect for leveling 4x8 router surfaces
[16:46:19] <fenn> http://youtu.be/w4kPDhrhlgk i guess it's actually like a shaper so i don't really know why they call it a planer
[16:48:44] <PetefromTn_> whats amazing to me is how SMOOTH that HUGE massive freaking table glides back and forth... a wear point for sure I wonder what it rides on and how it is lubricated..
[16:49:23] <PetefromTn_> Oh and it actually does have a clapper...the whole mount moves
[16:50:21] <PetefromTn_> Hey it's a Cincinatti!!!! WIN!!
[16:50:30] <fenn> the bit would self-destruct in no time if it didn't have a clapper
[16:50:50] <PetefromTn_> probably
[16:52:46] <PetefromTn_> its for sale for $38,500 so it can be yours!! Just need a way to move it and someplace to put it. Lemme go measure my garage....
[16:53:48] <malcom2073> You don't put that in a garage, you put a garage around that.
[16:53:57] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[16:54:00] <PetefromTn_> ya think?
[16:54:15] <PetefromTn_> that monster is bigger than my whole house...
[16:59:22] <PetefromTn_> I probably don't even have enough land here to buil a garage that big without tearing down the house and shop
[16:59:44] <fenn> just dig a tunnel with your tunnel boring machine
[17:08:41] <roycroft> go underground, petefromtn_
[17:08:50] <roycroft> build a giant garage underneath your house
[17:09:15] <PetefromTn_> I can't even afford to get this CNC lathe going let alone excavate under my house ROFL
[17:09:15] <Computer_barf> how long do you guys suppose is reasonable to run my g0704 at a time? I worry about over heating it.
[17:09:32] <PetefromTn_> ten or fifteen minutes? ;)
[17:09:43] <zeeshan> Computer_barf: never
[17:09:46] <furrywolf> until the red light on the stack light comes on
[17:09:47] <zeeshan> 0 min
[17:09:49] <roycroft> computer_barf: the thermal protection switch will kick the thing off if your motor gets too hot
[17:09:52] <zeeshan> furrywolf: ROFL ROFL ROFL
[17:10:11] <zeeshan> well applied joke
[17:11:14] <furrywolf> :P
[17:11:46] <PetefromTn_> Found my missing ball end allen wrench in the chips in the CNC lathe enclosure today!! Been looking for that thing for months now
[17:12:02] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: rofl
[17:12:05] <zeeshan> very nice
[17:12:14] <zeeshan> dude i blew up my edge finder (Starrett)
[17:12:19] <zeeshan> and lost the spring.
[17:12:28] <furrywolf> did you find the missing tommy bar for my lathe chuck while you were in there?
[17:12:31] <zeeshan> now im stuck with the import cause i never could find that spring
[17:12:36] <PetefromTn_> I must have been using to unscrew some of the bolts on the machine and it fell down without me noticing it.
[17:12:37] <zeeshan> maybe use your luck to find mine?
[17:13:06] <zeeshan> whats a tommy bar
[17:13:18] <PetefromTn_> spun it too fast?
[17:13:56] <PetefromTn_> a guy did that at the last shop I worked in accidentally hit the wrong MDI line and it ramped up to 10k real fast....
[17:14:03] * furrywolf googles for a page about tommy bars
[17:14:05] <PetefromTn_> was interesting seeing the spring turn into a streamer
[17:14:35] <furrywolf> http://www.sherline.com/tip23.htm
[17:15:25] <zeeshan> never seen that b4
[17:15:38] <fenn> it's for really small chucks
[17:15:56] <fenn> like a drill chuck key but without any gearing
[17:16:15] <fenn> you just yank on it to tighten
[17:16:23] <PetefromTn_> do you need a magnifying glass to see it? ;)
[17:16:35] <zeeshan> cye
[17:16:37] <zeeshan> cute
[17:16:41] <andypugh> My new(ish) lathe has 3 chucks. And no chuck keys. There are two different square sizes and one hex. How annoying.
[17:16:45] <furrywolf> I've been using an allen key as my second tommy bar for a while now...
[17:17:02] <PetefromTn_> andypugh that is a simple fix
[17:18:00] <PetefromTn_> someone was selling the same exact 12x36 lathe I had here locally for $1500.00 asking price recently. If I had it I would have grabbed it. Honestly I would like to get a manul 14x40 or larger once the CNC lathe is operational.
[17:18:17] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIMAT-SL-DB-3-4-LATHES-AND-OTHERS-MACHINES-TOMMY-BARS-SCROLL-CHUCK-LEVERS-/161775447021 those look nice.
[17:19:07] <fenn> so maybe this is obvious but if you have a lathe you can just make one
[17:19:23] <PetefromTn_> yup its obvious
[17:20:02] <furrywolf> or just buy a short piece of steel rod, which is all the stock ones are. :P
[17:20:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah but surely you would STILL dress it up and polish it in the lathe man I mean COME ON!!
[17:20:52] <furrywolf> I don't know if I can successfully turn tool steel on the sherline. I found I couldn't part off 3/8" diameter mild steel!
[17:21:18] <PetefromTn_> got hackasaw?
[17:21:22] <Tom_itx> chatter too much?
[17:22:15] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: I couldn't make the cutoff tool holder stay in one place, even when I cranked the screw down tight enough I was worried about snapping it or mushing my t-slots.
[17:22:32] <furrywolf> the force of cutting steel causes it to rotate on the bed
[17:22:35] <furrywolf> it works in brass...
[17:22:47] <Tom_itx> funny, brass tends to grab
[17:22:55] <zeeshan> what kind of lathe cant part 3/8 mild steel
[17:22:58] <PetefromTn_> you can mush a tee slot?
[17:22:59] <zeeshan> i can break that by my fingers
[17:23:03] <zeeshan> :D
[17:23:13] <Tom_itx> zeeshan a cheap one
[17:23:32] <PetefromTn_> a wittle one
[17:23:40] <Tom_itx> or jeweler's lathe
[17:23:45] <zeeshan> make a grinder attachment
[17:24:14] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: the table is aluminum
[17:24:26] <Sync_> zeeshan: just saw your header, dat efficiency
[17:24:27] <furrywolf> if you clamp a steel t-nut and steel bolt on it tight enough...
[17:24:34] <PetefromTn_> make a little pencil die grinder toolpost grinder and insert a dremel cutoff blade
[17:25:07] <furrywolf> I think I need to try hand sanding the bottom of the cutoff tool holder to be a ever so slightly dished shape.
[17:26:14] <zeeshan> Sync_: its not meant to be efficient, its meant to fit
[17:26:23] <zeeshan> have you worked on a v8 in a rx7 engine bay?
[17:26:40] <Sync_> no but I know it is tight
[17:26:42] <Tom_itx> doubt i ever will
[17:27:03] <furrywolf> zeeshan: someone I know is thinking of a twin turbo STI swap into his '84 subaru. :P
[17:27:08] <furrywolf> that'll be cramped
[17:27:28] <PetefromTn_> won't the car come apart ?
[17:27:30] <zeeshan> furrywolf: at least the motor is narrow but wide
[17:28:01] <furrywolf> zeeshan: and guess what? the frame rails on the early '80s subarus are spaced for a pushrod engine, not an overhead cam engine.
[17:28:09] <andypugh> furrywolf: Did you see Project Binky?
[17:28:13] <furrywolf> when you put an overhead cam engine in, room for routing stuff around it goes away.
[17:28:16] <furrywolf> andypugh: no
[17:28:40] <zeeshan> andypugh: http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/Untitled-4.jpg
[17:28:47] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/user/badobsessionmsport
[17:28:49] <zeeshan> $5 if you can tell me what that is the solution to
[17:29:13] <furrywolf> zeeshan: on a non-turbo swap, you don't need to route anything between the top and the bottom of the engine (intake goes in the top, exhaust comes out the bottom)... getting twin turbos in will be fun.
[17:29:18] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: wanting to understand math
[17:29:32] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: i love math
[17:29:38] <zeeshan> in one line you can go "kaboom"
[17:29:42] <andypugh> (Celica turbo 4x4 into a mini. But very nice work, and more importantly, very good video production. Like, it could go straight on TV I reckon.)
[17:29:42] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: I do too, when I'm awake
[17:29:43] <zeeshan> and a whole nasty term dissapears
[17:30:16] <furrywolf> oh, don't usually see hyperbolic trig functions used...
[17:30:27] <zeeshan> they are used a lot in beams
[17:30:45] <furrywolf> I don't usally do math on beams. :)
[17:31:04] <SpeedEvil> I let my beams do the math.
[17:31:09] <zeeshan> i came across this pic -- im still looking for a pic to rebuttal against sync
[17:31:09] <zeeshan> :)
[17:31:17] <andypugh> I let computers do it for me now. I regret that sometimes
[17:31:34] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: yeah - in principle being able to hand analyse stuff is nice - but...
[17:31:36] <zeeshan> andypugh: why? most problems are not solvable analyutically
[17:32:20] <andypugh> Most of the things I deal with nowadays are only solvable empirically.
[17:32:45] <zeeshan> Sync_: http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/simple_log_zps75f9927b.png
[17:32:52] <zeeshan> i did this a longggggg time ago
[17:32:59] <furrywolf> Tom_itx; get your pendant working?
[17:33:09] <andypugh> But Matlab can sometimes do good things to algebreic manipulations
[17:33:16] <zeeshan> and after i put the first set of manifolds, i ran 10.2@ 142 mph
[17:33:27] <zeeshan> so F effiency!
[17:33:38] <Sync_> wow such cfd
[17:33:38] <zeeshan> andypugh: symbolic toolbox ftw
[17:33:39] <furrywolf> I never got to take the Pantera down a track...
[17:34:23] <zeeshan> andypugh: do you actively use matlab?
[17:34:31] <furrywolf> 550hp, 14" wide tires, engine behind your head, all fiberglass. :)
[17:34:45] <Sync_> I don't do drag races, I don't know if that's fast or not
[17:34:51] <andypugh> I used to, but now mainly use excel as that works away from the network license, like in a car.
[17:35:09] <zeeshan> such savagery
[17:35:14] <zeeshan> how can you leave matlab :(
[17:35:50] <zeeshan> Sync_: i heard have a dsm?
[17:35:51] <zeeshan> :)
[17:35:54] <zeeshan> *you
[17:36:29] <fenn> octave doesn't need a license
[17:36:42] <andypugh> I can’t afford to buy it, and the company network license won’t work in a car where I do most of my work
[17:37:14] <furrywolf> there's an open-source math package that's supposed to be mostly matlab compatible, but I've never used it.
[17:37:28] <fenn> https://www.gnu.org/software/octave/
[17:37:42] <Sync_> I do zeeshan
[17:37:48] <zeeshan> which one?
[17:37:48] <furrywolf> my projects these days mostly involve manual labor rather than thinking.
[17:37:56] <Sync_> mitsu colt
[17:38:31] <andypugh> I have used Octave, in fact I used to be on their mailing list.
[17:38:31] <zeeshan> i used to have a 3g eclipse
[17:38:32] <zeeshan> lol
[17:38:41] <zeeshan> i had a 4g63 evo 8 head mated with a 4g64
[17:38:58] <zeeshan> damn mitusbishi and their transmissions :(
[17:39:08] <Sync_> they are solid
[17:39:11] <Sync_> compared to subaru glass
[17:39:13] <andypugh> You can write an STL slicer in 3 lines of Matlab/Octave. It’s great
[17:39:14] <zeeshan> LOL
[17:39:15] <zeeshan> LOL
[17:39:18] <zeeshan> hahahahahaha
[17:39:23] <zeeshan> i think you're mistakened
[17:39:39] <andypugh> (The code to import and export is longer, but not by much)
[17:39:45] <Sync_> my STi ate 2nd and 3rd two times at 450hp
[17:39:59] <furrywolf> Sync_: eh? I've yet to ruin a subaru tranny.
[17:40:20] <Sync_> run it hard, and it will fail
[17:40:20] <furrywolf> oh. you're calling them "glass" because you're putting in substantially more power than they were ever designed for.
[17:40:28] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/output_shaft.jpg ; http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/output_shaft_bearing.jpg
[17:40:55] <Sync_> the teeth are substantially harder than mitus
[17:40:59] <furrywolf> I'm putting in 65% more power than stock into mine and it hasn't had any problems yet. :)
[17:41:03] <Sync_> did some analysis on them
[17:41:08] <furrywolf> so don't pop the clutch?
[17:41:09] <PetefromTn_> hehehe
[17:41:13] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned4.jpg
[17:41:19] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned3.jpg
[17:41:27] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/axles_owned2.jpg
[17:41:31] <malcom2073> Granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should
[17:41:34] <zeeshan> only took 400bhp to do that
[17:41:35] <zeeshan> lol
[17:41:38] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[17:41:47] <malcom2073> :P
[17:41:53] <Sync_> interesting
[17:42:19] <Sync_> there are quite a few evos here running around 400 hp with stock running gear
[17:42:30] <andypugh> My computer is dying, I wonder what the probelm is?
[17:42:39] <Sync_> although I have gotten straight gears EDM'd for some guy
[17:42:41] <malcom2073> andypugh: Is it 20 years old? :P
[17:42:43] <zeeshan> andypugh: lack of matlab
[17:42:46] <zeeshan> :-)
[17:43:01] <andypugh> It just freezes every minute or so for a few seconds
[17:43:15] <malcom2073> Out of hard drive space and/or ram?
[17:43:20] <andypugh> (It’s a Mac from 2011)
[17:43:24] <malcom2073> Oh Mac
[17:43:26] <malcom2073> who knows
[17:43:40] <andypugh> I think it might actually be a hard drive that is expiring.
[17:43:44] <furrywolf> I've only broken one CV joint, and it was because I drove it for ten years after it started clicking. and then I made a u-turn at full lock on a steep hill with lots of throttle.
[17:43:58] <zeeshan> furrywolf: at least it gave you warning
[17:44:00] <zeeshan> wasn't catastrophic
[17:44:07] <zeeshan> i prolly went through 6 axles on the car
[17:44:12] <zeeshan> i got so good at changing them on the side of the road
[17:44:13] <zeeshan> and track
[17:44:22] <Sync_> that really suprises me
[17:44:25] <zeeshan> first time i did it, it took like 2 hours
[17:44:32] <Sync_> the 1G and 2G I see here are solid
[17:44:34] <zeeshan> then it became like 25 min when i got good
[17:44:40] <SpeedEvil> Oh - medical student.
[17:44:43] <SpeedEvil> err
[17:44:47] <furrywolf> it's pretty easy on a subaru, but you need a wrench big enough to loosen and tighten the ~250ftlb spindle nut.
[17:45:03] <zeeshan> its about the same torque for the mitsu
[17:45:33] <Sync_> but apparently the straight cut gears are fine for over 1000hp
[17:45:58] <furrywolf> I've never broken a subaru tranny, but I tend to use them with stock engines.
[17:46:04] <zeeshan> i did these steps: remove wheel, remove axle nut, remove ball joint bolt from knuckle, pry bar the axle out and quickly put the new on in, assemble
[17:46:06] <zeeshan> top off fluid
[17:46:37] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: on a subaru, there's stub shafts that stay in the tranny/diff, so no fluid loss. :P
[17:46:44] <zeeshan> i like that design
[17:46:48] <zeeshan> very nice
[17:47:06] <zeeshan> i know the 240sx is like that
[17:47:12] <zeeshan> ive never changed an axle on the rx7 yet
[17:47:23] <zeeshan> i dont think it has stub shafts either though
[17:47:31] <furrywolf> I've abused a couple of subaru trannies... we had one driving 44" swampers.... :P
[17:47:45] <andypugh> zeeshan: STL slicer in Matlab: http://codepad.org/MfULPnex
[17:47:56] <andypugh> (Outputs eps and hpgl)
[17:48:02] <zeeshan> for 3d printer?
[17:48:04] <furrywolf> see, you weird people like big engines. around here, people like big tires. P
[17:48:04] <furrywolf> :P
[17:48:06] <Sync_> same with the f5m
[17:48:19] <Sync_> it has a sealed box
[17:48:22] <zeeshan> http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s257/bimbleuk/Mazda%20RX7%20V8%20-%20Build/Rear_Subframe_Assembly.jpg
[17:48:29] <zeeshan> okay its the same as the mitusu
[17:48:33] <zeeshan> but diff fluid is easy to replace
[17:48:58] <andypugh> zeeshan: Yes, for cutting out layers of sticker-paper. It was my first 3D printer 10 years ago. Oddly enough, the last too.
[17:49:07] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:49:09] <furrywolf> I've never replaced diff fluid on a subaru... I've checked a couple of them, and they've always been right at the full plug and clean-looking...
[17:49:33] <andypugh> It was a very tedious process
[17:50:00] <Tom_itx> something you excell at
[17:50:04] <furrywolf> I might change the fluid on my project subaru, just because it's the only original fluid left on the vehicle.
[17:50:10] <zeeshan> loll
[17:50:25] <furrywolf> I drove one to 300,000 miles without ever changing the transmission fluid, and the tranny still worked like new. :)
[17:50:33] <andypugh> zeeshan: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5478341215134773746 was the final result. Then I had them cast in brass
[17:51:04] <zeeshan> very cool
[17:51:38] <andypugh> You know those tedious jobs where your legs curl up, you start feeling sick, and want to hurt something? Assembly was one of those.
[17:51:58] <zeeshan> body work is like that for me
[17:52:03] <zeeshan> when youre block sanding the whole car
[17:52:16] <andypugh> I guess those symptoms would get me a diagnosis of ADHD nowadays :-)
[17:52:17] <furrywolf> the shift linkage on the new one I got is worn out... tranny is perfect, but the shifter flops about six inches side to side. looks like someone mushed the roll pin that holds part of the linkage together. I think I need to drill it out slightly oversize and use an oversized pin.
[17:52:18] <PetefromTn_> panniers on an R1? Sacriledge
[17:52:43] <zeeshan> furrywolf: the problem is you dont have NAWZ
[17:53:18] <furrywolf> zeeshan: because that fixes damaged shift linkages?
[17:53:21] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: They look hideous too. But the design means that the whole frame simply lifts off by unlocking the pillion seat, and there are no mods to the bike at all.
[17:53:33] <Nick001-shop> Anywhere I can get the internal profile for 1/8-28 BSPT - bore dimensions at both ends, angle of bore and depth? Want to bore it out then single point the thread.
[17:53:57] <PetefromTn_> well I guess it is okay then....but just this one time ;)
[17:54:03] <zeeshan> furrywolf: youd be having too much fun to care
[17:54:04] <zeeshan> :)
[17:54:31] <furrywolf> the subaru transmission with the 44" swampers once climbed a 3ft concrete wall... but it was cheating slightly, since it had an additional 3.73:1 reduction after the transmission.
[17:54:46] <SpeedEvil> Drive it out to the desert, and roll it at high speed
[17:54:47] <Tom_itx> Nick001-shop, http://www.newmantools.com/taps/bsp.htm
[17:55:39] <PetefromTn_> only 3'?
[17:55:47] <zeeshan> Nick001-shop: honestly, mitsubishi engine blocks where the oil pressure sensor goes on are 1/8-28 bspt
[17:55:53] <zeeshan> but you can fit a 1/8 npt in there no problem with no leaks
[17:55:54] <zeeshan> :D
[17:56:25] <Tom_itx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe
[17:56:34] <Sync_> fuck that stuff zeeshan
[17:56:51] <furrywolf> subarus use 1/8 bspt and 1/4 bspt for their oil pressure senders as well.
[17:56:55] <zeeshan> Sync_: the bspt fitting?
[17:56:55] <zeeshan> lol
[17:57:07] <furrywolf> bspp on the block, bspt on the sender
[17:57:11] <furrywolf> if I remember right
[17:57:25] <zeeshan> i did buy real 1/8 bspt to -4 jic
[17:57:29] <zeeshan> and i didnt notice a difference
[17:57:51] <furrywolf> I need to make an oil pressure sender adapter for my subaru...
[17:57:55] <Sync_> thinking about shoving a newer engine in the colt, the 4g63t is pretty heavy
[17:58:08] <furrywolf> need to use the sender that matches the body, but it doesn't screw into the engine. :)
[17:59:04] <furrywolf> one of the things I want to make, when I get my spindle encoders built, is a simple g-code generator to generate all the standard fittings. npt, bspp, bspt, an/jic, etc, etc, etc... then just spit out adapters on demand. :)
[17:59:09] <andypugh> BSP is the metric stanrads for pipes :-)
[17:59:21] <zeeshan> Nick001-shop: http://i.imgur.com/vY3sSIy.png
[17:59:25] <zeeshan> from the bible
[17:59:40] <furrywolf> andypugh: bsp does not derive from any metric units as far as I know...
[17:59:41] <Nick001-shop> <Ton_itx> thanks for the info - it' the standard stuff for tapping- need to single point the thread for a shorter depth and have it seal before it bottoms out.
[18:00:09] <zeeshan> andypugh: send me some bspt taps and dies??
[18:00:19] <furrywolf> andypugh: and you can get actual metric threads. for example, subaru power sterring is M14x1.5 if I remember right...
[18:00:29] <andypugh> furrywolf: No, it is the old british imperial standard, with a Whiteworth thread form, but it is still the ISO / Metric standard pipe thread.
[18:00:55] <furrywolf> or maybe it's x1.25 and the m16 is x1.5. been a while. :P
[18:01:46] <andypugh> zeeshan: Lots on www.ebay.co.uk
[18:01:58] <zeeshan> FREE!!
[18:02:12] <zeeshan> i'll send you a beaver in return
[18:02:50] * furrywolf sends the hudson bay company around to zee's shack
[18:02:52] <andypugh> The only ones I have and don’t need are a set of 1 1/4 which would cost as much to post as a beaver.
[18:03:08] <SpeedEvil> Live or dead?
[18:03:13] <zeeshan> live ofcourse
[18:03:19] <zeeshan> so he can cause some misery
[18:04:17] <andypugh> http://www.xkcd.com/325/
[18:04:20] <furrywolf> I really want to have a program with a library of every single fitting standard that spits out g-code for making adapters...
[18:04:32] <zeeshan> hahah
[18:04:40] <andypugh> furrywolf: I made a start at that. Now where did I put it?
[18:05:14] <zeeshan> furrywolf: how much is a typical exhaust gasket?
[18:05:52] <furrywolf> npt, bsp, metric, SAE (flare and inverted flare), jic/an, gas flare, ford fuel line, hose barb, bolt (sae and metric), metric brake flares, bubble flares,...
[18:06:17] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: engine-manifold, manifold-collector, pipe-pipe? about $20, $3, $2 respectively.
[18:06:24] <zeeshan> another reason why i left the rotary:
[18:06:25] <zeeshan> http://www.pineappleracing.com/oemfdrx-7enginetomanifoldexhaustgasket.aspx
[18:06:31] <zeeshan> they are 70-110$ each
[18:06:32] <andypugh> I had a GladeVCP panel that let you select good variety of threads
[18:06:34] <zeeshan> you need two. for the manifold
[18:06:40] <andypugh> (I had forgotten all about it)
[18:07:33] <furrywolf> that seems like a ripoff. I don't think I spent more than $30 for a custom gasket for my rare jeep engine...
[18:07:39] <furrywolf> and it's a loooong 6-cylinder.
[18:07:52] <zeeshan> yep retarded =/
[18:08:43] <Sync_> well, it is a multilayer metal gasket
[18:08:53] <Sync_> they probably had good reason to put it there
[18:09:00] <Sync_> (maybe not)
[18:09:47] <furrywolf> Sync_: you can buy a smartphone for that price. it includes layered silicon and metals, glass and liquid crystal and transparent conductors, etc, etc. a layered metal gasket is not complex compared to other things the same amount of money can buy.
[18:09:56] <furrywolf> someone is ripping people off and laughing all the way to the bank.
[18:10:28] <Sync_> it all depends
[18:10:52] <Sync_> a smartphone is a mass produced item
[18:10:53] <fenn> andypugh: what sort of sensor is that in your unsorted cnc gallery, with the cog wheel and zig zag pcb trace?
[18:11:13] <furrywolf> so are rotary engine parts. because every needs every part, every 30k miles or less. :P
[18:11:18] <andypugh> fenn: Link?
[18:11:34] <fenn> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5694213724187863682
[18:12:23] <Sync_> very much less so than the smartphone
[18:16:51] <andypugh> fenn: AEDR-8300: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/photodetector-amplifiers/7160604/
[18:17:41] <furrywolf> I just think prices like that are "because we can" prices rather than in any way based on their manufacturing or distribution cost...
[18:19:38] <andypugh> But, they don’t work with that target, they need a fairly specific line spacing, so I had to have these laser-cut: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5746547530954320162
[18:20:20] <fenn> andypugh: i meant, what is the purpose of the continuous copper zigzag trace
[18:20:47] <andypugh> It isn’t copper or a trace
[18:21:05] <andypugh> It’s the result of drawing a line on aluminium with a marker pen then etching it.
[18:21:45] <andypugh> I was hoping to use it with a reflective encoder sensor, but I was disappointed.
[18:23:10] <fenn> ok that makes some sense then. i thought maybe it was some kind of induction tachometer or something
[18:23:40] <andypugh> Nothing so novel :-)
[18:23:49] <Rab> andypugh, what was your method of etching aluminum?
[18:24:04] <andypugh> Ferric Chloride (that’s all I had)
[18:24:24] <andypugh> Worked on one bit of aluminium, not on another
[18:25:02] <furrywolf> I tried ferric chloride on aluminum once. it got over-energetic, and ended up being carried outside with a very long pair of pliers and dumped into a bucket and spread out....
[18:25:19] <furrywolf> where over-energetic is defined as getting hot, foaming, and emitting fumes
[18:25:42] <andypugh> None of that here
[18:25:46] <Rab> Yeah, I use ferric chloride for etching most other metals but I always heard it was contraindicated for Al.
[18:26:00] <andypugh> And I can’t stand this any more. I am going to have to at least try restarting this computer
[18:26:24] <Rab> Did some electrolytic etching that produced good results.
[18:38:23] <zeeshan> no wonder my work lamp on the cnc wasn't working
[18:38:27] <zeeshan> it needs 220vac
[18:38:28] <zeeshan> im giving it 120.
[18:49:30] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, things a little dim?
[18:49:49] <zeeshan> no it doesnt even light up
[18:49:50] <zeeshan> just flashes
[18:49:59] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out how this constant current power supply works
[18:50:05] <zeeshan> i clearly dont understand basic principles in electronics
[18:50:08] <Rab> Fluorescent ballast probably can't fire.
[18:51:22] <Rab> zeeshan, simulate it: http://lushprojects.com/circuitjs/
[18:51:27] <Tom_itx> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/9777/how-do-constant-current-power-supplies-work
[18:51:36] <Tom_itx> you should like that, it's got math on the page
[18:52:26] <Tom_itx> google LM317, it can be configured for voltage or current
[18:54:39] <Tom_itx> http://users.telenet.be/davshomepage/current-source.htm
[18:54:53] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: this is a lot of reading
[18:54:55] <zeeshan> =P
[18:55:07] <zeeshan> rab tha tis a cool website
[18:55:34] <zeeshan> bookmarked
[18:55:44] <Tom_itx> alot of the chip houses have sim
[18:55:50] <Tom_itx> linear i think does
[18:55:54] <zeeshan> i'm sure you guys are a familiar with 5630 led strips
[18:56:02] <zeeshan> on the strip itself it says 12V.
[18:56:13] <zeeshan> it also says in the spec sheet 72W/5m
[18:56:21] <zeeshan> and you can cut em in 3 led segments
[18:56:31] <zeeshan> i have a meanwell apc-12-350
[18:56:42] <zeeshan> which is a 36V 0.35A constant current supply
[18:57:05] <zeeshan> what is worrying me is even if it's drawing .35A max
[18:57:26] <zeeshan> wouldn't the voltage be 36V at that current output meaning i'm exceeding the 12V spec
[18:57:28] <zeeshan> burning the strip
[18:57:56] <fenn> yes, but the power supply can't supply that much current so it will probably burn out first
[18:58:04] <Tom_itx> so add a current limit resistor until you're sure it won't
[18:58:20] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i was hoping to just use the correct number of led's
[18:58:22] <zeeshan> to achieve what i want
[18:58:27] <zeeshan> like i think each led draws 50mA max.
[18:58:37] <zeeshan> im assuming they need a forward bias of 3V
[18:59:00] <Tom_itx> i can drive an led from 110v
[18:59:10] * zeeshan is confused
[18:59:11] <Tom_itx> i use a diode along with it
[18:59:12] <fenn> you don't need a constant current supply to drive 12V led strips because they have resistors built in
[18:59:26] <zeeshan> fenn: but it's all i have right now
[18:59:30] <zeeshan> and i'd like to wire this strip up
[18:59:44] <Tom_itx> as a bomb or a lamp?
[18:59:54] <zeeshan> lamp
[18:59:55] <Rab> zeeshan, constant current supply means that when the current threshold is reached, the voltage will drop. Since the LEDs are basically a short at their Vf, the voltage hovers there. If the power supply is decent, nothing will fry.
[19:00:22] <zeeshan> Rab: so till the current is reached
[19:00:24] <zeeshan> itll pump out 36V?
[19:00:26] <fenn> zeeshan it could work if you had 3 led strips or a resistor equivalent to 2 led strips, but the light will be dim
[19:00:29] <zeeshan> won't that fry the led's?
[19:00:41] <zeeshan> leds
[19:00:47] <Tom_itx> not if the current isn't exceeded
[19:00:49] <Rab> zeeshan, depends on how fast the power supply reacts.
[19:01:01] <fenn> oh crap i am dumb, nevermind, that's a constant current supply
[19:02:04] <Rab> zeeshan, are these LEDs in series or parallel?
[19:02:14] <zeeshan> parallel it looks lik
[19:02:26] <Tom_itx> more than likely they're in series
[19:02:31] <zeeshan> posting ap ic
[19:02:39] <Rab> zeeshan, why don't you use a 12V PSU?
[19:02:51] <zeeshan> parallel makes sense the way they are arranged
[19:02:58] <zeeshan> rab i have very limited space in the lamp fixture
[19:03:03] <zeeshan> i'd like to dump this dinky little power supply inthere
[19:03:07] <zeeshan> put the strips and call it a day
[19:03:32] <zeeshan> itll fit nicely in the fixture
[19:03:36] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/led_harness_off.jpg
[19:03:45] <Tom_itx> those each have a transistor on board
[19:03:52] <fenn> your LED strip wants 72W/12V = 6A but the supply can only go up to 350mA; the question is what the supply does when it reaches its max current. most of them will just turn off
[19:03:53] <Tom_itx> you can dim the strips
[19:04:04] <zeeshan> fenn: i dont need to power the whole strip
[19:04:07] <zeeshan> i just wanna use what ineed to
[19:04:13] <Rab> Plenty of PSUs smaller than that brick.
[19:04:15] <zeeshan> i can fit 3x9" long strips
[19:04:17] <zeeshan> maybe 4.
[19:04:18] <Rab> 12V output
[19:04:25] <fenn> but since this is a current source it should keep supplying 350mA
[19:04:28] <zeeshan> rab i have what i have though right now
[19:04:29] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2lQqQfX.jpg?1
[19:04:35] <zeeshan> here is what im looking at
[19:04:50] <zeeshan> the way im thinking is this.
[19:05:05] <zeeshan> since each strip requires 12V, and the current supply is max 350mA
[19:05:13] <zeeshan> and each led draws 50mA,,
[19:05:52] <zeeshan> wouldnt that mean i can put 3 led segments in series
[19:05:53] <zeeshan> and itll work
[19:06:08] <Rab> That would be the best configuration.
[19:06:12] <fenn> yes
[19:06:37] <Rab> BTW, each of those segments is three LEDs in series with a current-limiting resistor.
[19:06:47] <Tom_itx> those onboard resistors will limit the current
[19:06:58] <Tom_itx> but E=IR still applies
[19:07:07] <zeeshan> whos E
[19:07:08] <zeeshan> :-)
[19:07:14] <Tom_itx> voltage
[19:07:16] <Tom_itx> current
[19:07:17] <zeeshan> i kid
[19:07:19] <Tom_itx> resistance
[19:07:29] <zeeshan> i think ill understand it better if i had a schematic
[19:08:04] <Tom_itx> ---/\/\/\---|>---
[19:08:09] <Tom_itx> how's that?
[19:08:30] <zeeshan> looks like a fishy
[19:08:36] <fenn> each segment has 3 diodes in series with a resistor like +12 ---- D -> D -> D -> R ---- GND
[19:08:51] <sector_0> can someone mill these for me?
[19:08:56] <fenn> those segments are wired in parallel to make a 72W strip
[19:08:58] <sector_0> http://oi59.tinypic.com/25z11ev.jpg
[19:09:06] <sector_0> http://oi62.tinypic.com/70jmf5.jpg
[19:09:18] <sector_0> I can send the stl files if you like
[19:09:18] <zeeshan> 1000$ please
[19:09:38] * sector_0 chokes
[19:09:50] <zeeshan> im sure pete can make those for you
[19:09:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/7qHq80U.jpg?1
[19:10:01] <zeeshan> fenn: is this what you mean in ascii?
[19:10:02] <fenn> sector_0: that is totally drill press territory
[19:10:15] <zeeshan> the half moon hole is the tricky part
[19:10:19] <zeeshan> to do with a drill press for that
[19:10:34] <fenn> zeeshan: no you drew the diodes in parallel
[19:10:55] <CaptHindsight> sector_0: how many thousand do you need? and what material?
[19:11:02] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: rofl
[19:11:27] <zeeshan> sector_0: the $1000 wasn't a joke btw
[19:11:37] <zeeshan> you have no tolerance!
[19:11:49] <zeeshan> and material
[19:11:50] <sector_0> zeeshan, lol still choked a bit there :p
[19:11:57] <zeeshan> if thats aluminum
[19:12:09] <Tom_itx> ceramic
[19:12:10] <sector_0> CaptHindsight, 0.001 thousands :)
[19:12:24] <sector_0> and yes it's aluminum
[19:12:26] <CaptHindsight> +/- 5mm tolerance all dimensions?
[19:12:32] <zeeshan> can prolly make it for 80bux
[19:12:52] <fenn> you can make the half-moons by putting to plates face to face and drilling a hole parallel to the face
[19:13:01] <fenn> two*
[19:13:02] <zeeshan> sector_0: there is a section on practictal machinist
[19:13:08] <zeeshan> where you can post your job and people will bid on it
[19:13:15] <zeeshan> thats the way you can get the absolute cheapest price
[19:13:26] <sector_0> zeeshan, where that?
[19:13:53] <zeeshan> sorry its not prac machinist
[19:13:57] <zeeshan> http://www.rfqwork.com/
[19:13:59] <zeeshan> this forum
[19:14:03] <CaptHindsight> if you leave the holes out it's much easier to make
[19:15:16] <zeeshan> sector_0: where are you located?
[19:15:54] <sector_0> CaptHindsight, the tolerance isn't too important, as long as the half-moons are dead parallel with the edges and the holes near the half moons are pretty close
[19:16:11] <Tom_itx> reprap parts?
[19:16:24] <sector_0> could allow for them being 1mm away from the half-moon but not going through it
[19:16:29] <sector_0> Tom_itx, kinda
[19:16:39] <zeeshan> damnit fenn
[19:16:42] <sector_0> zeeshan, Caribbean
[19:16:51] <zeeshan> virtually idont see how these are in series!!
[19:16:54] <zeeshan> *visually
[19:16:58] <sector_0> st.vincent to be specific
[19:17:05] <zeeshan> sector_0: shipping will be $$$
[19:17:09] <zeeshan> dont you have a local machine shop?
[19:17:25] <sector_0> zeeshan, that's the problem I have most the time
[19:17:28] <Tom_itx> no but he's got lotsa sunshine and beachfront
[19:17:33] <zeeshan> ,lucky guy
[19:17:37] <zeeshan> id take that over a machine shop anyday!
[19:17:53] <Tom_itx> you're no machinist!!!
[19:18:04] <zeeshan> i know!
[19:18:04] <sector_0> zeeshan, there's one but they do heavy machining for marines and stuff
[19:18:33] <zeeshan> sector_0: realistically that is a 1 hour job
[19:19:01] <zeeshan> avg shop rate is 75- 150/hr , and then you gotta pay for material and shipping
[19:19:11] <zeeshan> can you post it on that forum and tell us what you get quoted?
[19:19:12] <zeeshan> im curious!!
[19:19:23] <sector_0> zeeshan, lol oh gosh!
[19:19:28] <sector_0> that sounds horrible
[19:20:51] <zeeshan> fenn: http://www.muslighting.com/pic/other/2013-04-02-07-12-129.jpg
[19:20:52] <zeeshan> left diagram
[19:20:58] <zeeshan> is what what you were getting at
[19:21:35] <Tom_itx> that's what you're wanting to do
[19:21:51] <zeeshan> but i think the strip is already arranged like that
[19:21:56] <zeeshan> so it just means i cut it to elngth
[19:21:57] <zeeshan> and plug it in
[19:22:01] <zeeshan> im gonna draw it out and calc.
[19:23:29] <fenn> zeeshan: yeah that diagram looks correct. in all likelihood your LED strip is laid out like this: http://fennetic.net/irc/led_strip_schematic.png
[19:23:45] <zeeshan> i appreciate the visual diagram
[19:23:48] <zeeshan> that makes more sense!
[19:24:05] <fenn> drawing with a touchpad is slow
[19:25:29] <Rab> Drilling a perfect halfmoon for 80mm without wandering...I'm dubious.
[19:25:46] <zeeshan> ball nose ftw!
[19:25:51] <Rab> yeah
[19:26:12] <fenn> in the drawing it's not a half moon, more like a one-third moon
[19:26:23] <Rab> sure
[19:26:39] <zeeshan> in your diagram
[19:26:45] <zeeshan> how much current is each rung drawing?
[19:26:57] <fenn> 150mA i guess
[19:27:05] <fenn> er no, duh
[19:27:07] <fenn> 50mA
[19:27:13] <Rab> sector_0, for the two 10mm thirdmoon cutouts in the first pic, do those need squared ends or could they be rounded?
[19:27:38] <zeeshan> okay that is what i calculated
[19:29:14] <zeeshan> now here's the question that'll clear the confusion for me
[19:29:24] <fenn> the whole rung ideally draws whatever current the individual led is rated for
[19:29:24] <zeeshan> instead of 12 in your diagram, i put a 36v constant current supply
[19:29:41] <zeeshan> (350mA )
[19:29:50] <zeeshan> that means it'll try to push 350mA through this rung
[19:29:52] <zeeshan> at 12v
[19:29:53] <zeeshan> right?
[19:30:00] <zeeshan> and fry the led
[19:30:06] <horacio> good night, are there someone who can help me in spanish ?
[19:30:16] <Rab> Strictly speaking it will allow the rung to draw 350mA, rather than pushing it. But, yes.
[19:30:27] <zeeshan> Rab: so it'll fry it
[19:30:34] <Rab> It'll probably fry the current limiting resistor first.
[19:30:43] <zeeshan> why
[19:30:49] <zeeshan> its not rated for enough watts?
[19:30:53] <Rab> But either way the rung goes dark.
[19:30:59] <sector_0> Rab, doesn't matter but preferably square
[19:31:01] <Rab> zeeshan, correct.
[19:31:42] <zeeshan> each so this logically means that since each rung is drawing 50mA, i need at least 7 rungs
[19:31:45] <zeeshan> to stop them from frying
[19:31:49] <zeeshan> and to be safe, might as well put 9.
[19:31:54] <sector_0> Rab, also the dimensions are in millimeters
[19:32:06] <zeeshan> ok im gonna burn some leds
[19:32:08] <zeeshan> wish me luck!
[19:32:14] <Rab> sector_0, so the cutouts could be done with the plate on end and a 8mm end mill. And the long cutout could be a 10mm ball-end mill. So that's a couple of different setups.
[19:32:43] <Rab> zeeshan, why would you do that instead of three sets of three rungs.
[19:33:22] <fenn> it's already wired up in parallel so he just needs to cut out a 7 segment length of strip
[19:33:27] <zeeshan> exactly
[19:33:53] <sector_0> Rab, so essentially that makes it more difficult?
[19:33:59] <zeeshan> its funny cause the more rungs that fry
[19:34:02] <zeeshan> the brighter the led's get
[19:34:05] <Rab> sector_0, I think so. But I'm not a professional.
[19:34:06] <zeeshan> eventually they all fry
[19:34:07] <zeeshan> hahaha
[19:34:11] <zeeshan> (if my logic is right)
[19:34:16] <fenn> yes
[19:34:30] <zeeshan> thats okay i got 5 meters of it!!!
[19:34:33] <sector_0> what if the half-moons were squares instead?
[19:34:41] <sector_0> how much easier would it be?
[19:34:48] <fenn> maybe starting with a length of 8 is better because it's more conservative
[19:34:59] <Rab> sector_0, I think that would make it more challenging.
[19:35:09] <Rab> If you want squared ends in the channels.
[19:36:02] <sector_0> Rab, :/
[19:36:14] <sector_0> essentially I design this from an idealist's perspective
[19:36:29] <sector_0> I don't actually have much knowledge about machining
[19:36:51] <Rab> zeeshan, don't depend on the constant current supply. I recommend wiring blocks of three segments in series, so everything runs at 36V. Safer that way IMO.
[19:37:23] <fenn> that will just make the supply poop out
[19:37:45] <fenn> 36V is the maximum
[19:38:28] <fenn> everything is backwards because it's a constant current supply.. i messed up too earlier
[19:39:04] <fenn> personally i would just get a 12V supply
[19:39:26] <Rab> ^^
[19:39:33] <zeeshan> no
[19:39:38] <zeeshan> gotta live on the edge
[19:39:57] <Rab> 12V 1A wall wart, available from any thrift store.
[19:40:12] <Rab> Smaller than that brick if it's a SMPS.
[19:40:53] <fenn> to really live on the edge you'd have to stack 10 of them in series and plug it into the mains line
[19:41:01] <CaptHindsight> whatchamakin?
[19:42:20] <CaptHindsight> ah "How I turned a 10 minute LED project into a 2 hour discussion" :)
[19:42:45] <zeeshan> my confusion was how it was physically wired
[19:42:47] <zeeshan> fenn explained it pretty well
[19:42:48] <Rab> tags: zeeshan electronics
[19:43:19] <fenn> if you look closely at the strip under a light you should be able to see the circuit traces
[19:43:48] <zeeshan> fenn: i have the lights on
[19:43:51] <zeeshan> and i still cant see the traces
[19:44:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/H0v7jeE.jpg
[19:44:05] <zeeshan> this is how i live
[19:44:06] <zeeshan> ON THE EDGE
[19:44:12] <zeeshan> gobble some tape on the live side
[19:44:15] <zeeshan> keep the low side exposed
[19:44:19] <zeeshan> no ground
[19:44:24] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/3lVuu87.jpg
[19:45:42] <fenn> now for extra credit put 2 in series
[19:45:55] <zeeshan> this is already drawing 350mA
[19:45:56] <zeeshan> ~
[19:46:14] <fenn> of course it is
[19:46:23] <zeeshan> wait
[19:46:29] <zeeshan> how many volts is it at
[19:47:01] <fenn> i'd guess about 19V?
[19:47:23] <fenn> use your multimeter
[19:48:43] <zeeshan> was being lazy
[19:48:44] <zeeshan> 10.82V
[19:49:16] <fenn> um, really? where did you measure across?
[19:49:24] <zeeshan> im measuring at those naked wires
[19:49:32] <zeeshan> which should be in parallel to the led strip
[19:49:56] <zeeshan> lemme remeasure
[19:50:23] <fenn> that's about the same as the forward voltage drop of the LEDs, but i would expect the resistor to have a higher voltage drop added to that
[19:50:25] <zeeshan> same thing
[19:51:12] <fenn> oh i am using the wrong current value
[19:51:47] <fenn> still seems too low though
[19:52:07] <zeeshan> 20:17:59] <fenn> to really live on the edge you'd have to stack 10 of them in series and plug it into the mains line
[19:52:08] <zeeshan> ROFL
[19:52:11] <zeeshan> i missed that
[19:53:35] <spline> nice led
[19:54:10] <zeeshan> spline thanks!
[19:54:19] <zeeshan> so since im measuring 10.82V, and its drawing 350mA
[19:54:24] <zeeshan> that means its only consuming about 4W
[19:54:26] <spline> where's the strip going
[19:54:33] <zeeshan> work light for cnc mill
[19:57:32] <zeeshan> rab still there?
[19:57:57] <Rab> zeeshan, for the moment.
[19:58:04] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ldI5kUH.jpg
[19:58:08] <zeeshan> is this what you were trying to say
[19:58:17] <Rab> yah
[19:58:32] <zeeshan> thjats a lot of leds..
[19:58:37] <zeeshan> :)
[19:59:15] <Rab> But if you're sure each segment uses 50mA, and run 7 segments in parallel, it should be fine.
[19:59:27] <zeeshan> i wanna run a bit cooler
[19:59:34] <zeeshan> cause i have 10 segments hooked up
[19:59:38] <zeeshan> and its kinda warm to touch
[19:59:42] <zeeshan> and its bright enough
[19:59:59] <spline> ha yeah the guys at my local hackerspace have leds on everything for work lights
[20:00:01] <spline> work real well
[20:00:07] <spline> get strips from some place locally and just wire em up
[20:00:11] <Rab> They'll get warm to the touch in proper operation. Running more segments will overload the PSU.
[20:00:42] <zeeshan> why
[20:01:03] <zeeshan> nm
[20:01:08] <fenn> because chinese power supplies are always overrated
[20:02:05] <fenn> you could probably do 2 sets of 7 in series safely but 3 is pushing it
[20:03:32] <Rab> I think max would be 27 segments, 9 blocks of 3 in series...but that would load the PSU 100%.
[20:04:11] <zeeshan> im trying to also figure out how to physically do it
[20:04:20] <zeeshan> cause i only got 9" of room in the housing along the length
[20:04:24] <zeeshan> i can maybe push 10"
[20:04:51] <fenn> how long is each segment?
[20:05:16] <zeeshan> gotta get a tape
[20:06:06] <spline> tape
[20:06:59] <zeeshan> blah
[20:07:03] <zeeshan> 14" long is 7 segments
[20:07:08] <zeeshan> and 9.5" is the room i got
[20:09:02] <Rab> zeeshan, corrugate the strips so they fit, then you get a wider angle of on-axis illumination?
[20:09:30] <zeeshan> but then they'll be pointing in the wrong direction
[20:09:46] <Rab> Front and back instead of side to side?
[20:09:52] <zeeshan> this might not be work safe for some
[20:09:53] <zeeshan> http://www.maykool.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/w/two-piece-swimsuit-corrugate-ripple-design-bikini-set-004396_1.jpg
[20:10:00] <zeeshan> i looked up corrugated led
[20:10:01] <fenn> put 2 sets of 4 segments in parallel (physically and electrically)
[20:10:02] <zeeshan> and i got this
[20:10:02] <zeeshan> LOL
[20:10:06] <zeeshan> nice google.
[20:10:14] <spline> heh
[20:10:48] <fenn> google goes by popularity
[20:10:55] <zeeshan> she's definitely popular
[20:10:57] <Rab> fenn, sounds reasonable. Could angle each pair in a V for better coverage.
[20:11:15] <zeeshan> 2 sets of 4 segment doesnt make sense to me
[20:11:23] <zeeshan> that means that each segment which can only handle 50mA
[20:11:30] <zeeshan> will actually be seeing 350/4
[20:11:37] <zeeshan> 87.5mA
[20:11:45] <zeeshan> am i thinking of this wrong?
[20:11:53] <fenn> no each segment will be seeing 350/8 = 43.75mA
[20:12:02] <fenn> because they're in parallel
[20:12:13] <fenn> assuming you wire it up correctly
[20:15:02] <zeeshan> brain function = 0
[20:15:08] <zeeshan> :)
[20:16:39] <spline> ah yeah forgot that from physics
[20:16:57] <zeeshan> this is why i got out of EE
[20:16:58] <zeeshan> quickly
[20:17:07] <zeeshan> its just not my thing
[20:17:20] <zeeshan> it takes me a lot longer to figure it out
[20:17:21] <fenn> it's amazing how easy it is to pretend you understand electronics without understanding V=IR
[20:17:24] <zeeshan> mechi is easy.
[20:18:01] <zeeshan> fenn: i eventually get it!
[20:18:03] <fenn> they also tend tell you way too late in the game that wires have resistance inductance and capacitance
[20:19:20] <zeeshan> i have this diagram drawn, http://i.imgur.com/AGq25Zu.jpg
[20:19:31] <zeeshan> but i fail to see how each it's 350/8..
[20:19:43] <zeeshan> wait you said in PARALLE
[20:19:44] <zeeshan> omg
[20:19:56] <fenn> yeah that diagram is wrong
[20:20:25] <fenn> it should be electrically equivalent to a strip of 8 segments
[20:20:52] <fenn> so you connect the 12V wire to the 12V wire and the 0V to the 0V
[20:20:53] <zeeshan> but i thought we were trying to maximize the amount of led's you could light up with the psu
[20:21:17] <zeeshan> yes i fixed it
[20:21:20] <zeeshan> i didnt realize what you ewre saying
[20:21:20] <fenn> well now the problem seems to be getting it to fit into some sort of light fixture
[20:21:34] <zeeshan> 2 parallel 4 segments will work
[20:21:47] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/H4VJnZT.jpg
[20:21:49] <zeeshan> lazy fix
[20:22:18] <zeeshan> now if i put another set of led's
[20:22:31] <zeeshan> 4 segments in series with another 4 segments
[20:22:44] <zeeshan> then the same in parallel
[20:22:59] <zeeshan> i could run more leds
[20:23:01] <zeeshan> without blowing up the psu
[20:24:11] <fenn> right
[20:25:50] <spline> was gonna do something similar like you are, obv more amps, for landscape lighting
[20:25:55] <zeeshan> LAST PICTURE
[20:25:57] <zeeshan> im tired of drawing this
[20:26:04] <zeeshan> and im sure you guys are tired of LOOKING
[20:26:36] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/00LIry7.jpg
[20:26:46] <zeeshan> so i have 4 sections with 4 segments each
[20:26:50] <zeeshan> and i gotta wire them correctly
[20:27:23] <zeeshan> squiggly lines = border of each section
[20:27:42] <zeeshan> spline: these are bright as hell
[20:27:50] <zeeshan> if you look at em, its like looking at the sun
[20:27:57] <zeeshan> you get temporary blindlness
[20:29:07] <fenn> you can now get 10W to 100W LED array chips pretty cheaply, but they have to be heatsinked and have no built in current limiting like those strips
[20:30:17] <fenn> 10W LED is roughly equivalent to a 100W light bulb
[20:30:18] <zeeshan> fenn: i bought these a long time ago
[20:30:24] <zeeshan> 11 bux shipped
[20:30:24] <zeeshan> haha
[20:30:25] <spline> zeeshan: yeah, that strip you had, it reminded me of the leds the guys used @ the hackerspace on everything
[20:30:45] <spline> one of the places that sponsors them (and donates a ton) gives them like racks of those led film strip rolls. it was _insane_ when I saw how many they had
[20:31:00] <spline> and they're always hacking apart old psus from laptops or whatever, so 5v or 3.3v always available (or whatever it requires)
[20:31:24] <zeeshan> haha
[20:31:25] <zeeshan> nice
[20:32:47] <spline> and then wire up a toggle on one of the dc legs, and it works
[20:33:01] <spline> yeah, really nice when one of your sponsors is a huge electrical? or I don't know what they do but its a great hookup
[20:34:44] <fenn> where is that? and how did they manage to get a sponsor?
[20:37:22] <zeeshan> fenn: a lot of people donate stuff
[20:37:30] <zeeshan> like for example my local makerspace
[20:37:33] <zeeshan> i donated my plasma cutter
[20:37:43] <zeeshan> i still have the ability to bring it back home
[20:37:48] <zeeshan> but they keep it 99% of the time
[20:38:27] <zeeshan> fenn: please check this!
[20:39:02] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Qsdm6VO.jpg?1
[20:39:09] <zeeshan> does it look correct?
[20:39:15] <zeeshan> (thats the physical)
[20:39:46] <zeeshan> shit
[20:39:51] <zeeshan> i made a mistake
[20:39:54] <fenn> top splice is wrong, should be connected to + wire not - wire
[20:40:40] <fenn> also don't connect the bottom - to the top -
[20:40:47] <zeeshan> why
[20:40:53] <fenn> oop disregard my first comment
[20:41:41] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ioxaXv3.jpg?1
[20:41:52] <zeeshan> this makes more sense?
[20:42:31] <fenn> yes that's correct now
[20:42:57] <zeeshan> dude if this works out
[20:43:01] <zeeshan> this is going to be a LOT of light
[20:43:08] <zeeshan> can make better videos on the mill!
[20:46:58] <fenn> that series-parallel-series constant-current configuration is something of a brain teaser
[20:48:05] <zeeshan> for me at least, its not common to work with a constant current supply
[20:48:15] <fenn> me either
[20:48:18] <zeeshan> the only time ive encountered something similar was 4-20mA signals
[20:52:17] <Rab> zeeshan, try it out in that circuit sim page. You can monitor individual nodes for voltage/current. Should be illustrative.
[20:52:43] <zeeshan> Rab: simulation is in real life
[20:52:48] <zeeshan> hehe
[20:53:16] <zeeshan> its gonna take a while to solder these
[20:53:29] <zeeshan> they are in a waterproof thing
[20:53:41] <zeeshan> gutting it out near the copper pad is kinda challenging
[20:56:17] <Rab> zeeshan, I do feel that sim is for wusses, but if you're not hardcore enough to know V=IR...
[20:56:40] <zeeshan> rab v=ir is not as easy as it seems
[20:56:48] <zeeshan> this configurations really play mind games
[20:56:51] <zeeshan> its just like f=mA
[20:56:54] <zeeshan> most people think they understand it
[20:57:00] <zeeshan> cause it looks simple, but its not as simple
[20:57:12] <zeeshan> it's telling you so much, in such a compact equation
[20:59:01] <zeeshan> cause force is arbritary in it
[20:59:12] <zeeshan> like a force can be F = G(m1 m2 / r^2) , it could also be F=q1q2/(4pi*r^2) , it could also be F=-kx
[20:59:35] <zeeshan> F = mv^2/r too!
[20:59:52] <zeeshan> then it just so happens to be a vector to make things more complex :P
[21:00:16] <zeeshan> so don't make fun of me :(
[21:00:26] <Tom_itx> math geek!
[21:00:45] <zeeshan> this aint math
[21:00:49] <zeeshan> this be physics
[21:01:25] <zeeshan> ive started learning quantum mechanics
[21:01:31] <Rab> It is physics, but I don't think it's deceptively hard or anything.
[21:01:33] <zeeshan> i really want to know how to relate it back to classical mechanicsl
[21:01:44] <Tom_itx> i wanted to look at the control but wasn't up to it tonight
[21:01:59] <zeeshan> Rab: okay you're a genious
[21:02:10] <zeeshan> let me show you where f=ma is decieving also.
[21:02:47] <zeeshan> ma + cv + kx = 0
[21:02:55] <Rab> I'm not a genius, I don't know any damn math.
[21:03:19] <zeeshan> thats a typical equation for simple harmonic motion
[21:03:25] <zeeshan> coming from newton's f=ma
[21:03:40] <zeeshan> instead of 0 put sin(omega * t)
[21:03:49] <zeeshan> and now you need a whole shit load of differential math to solve it
[21:04:40] <zeeshan> thats where those equations omega = sqrt(k/m) comes from
[21:05:10] <zeeshan> i dare you to make fun of me again!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:05:14] <zeeshan> :-)
[21:05:27] <zeeshan> (i am a noob)
[21:06:47] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: did you fix your pendant
[21:12:20] <PetefromTn_> Damn do I ever HATE mowing the lawn, specifically my backyard after it has rained all week like that....Just a damn miserable experience
[21:20:44] <PetefromTn_> would MUCH rather be playing with my CNC ;_
[21:20:50] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[21:21:10] <malcom2073> Heh, I hate mowing
[21:21:16] <malcom2073> the wife constantly badgers me about the yard
[21:22:15] <HoppingMadMan> Hey everyone, I am new to the world of CNC machines, I am about to start building my first CNC machine. So I guess I will be spending a bit of time here bugging everyone if I get stuck
[21:22:39] <malcom2073> HoppingMadMan: Sweet! Welcome to the sickness :P
[21:22:45] <malcom2073> Whatcha building?
[21:23:32] <HoppingMadMan> I am building an 4 axis machine, hopping that it will be able to cut part out that are needed in my father in laws workshop
[21:23:35] <PetefromTn_> I guess I should either ante up for a nice commercial mower or pay someone else to do it but I just HATE doing that and I tell myself that it is some good exercise to mow it myself LOL
[21:24:02] <malcom2073> HoppingMadMan: So a mill?
[21:24:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, no not yet
[21:25:11] <HoppingMadMan> Yes a mill
[21:25:21] <HoppingMadMan> But then after this he wants an machine that can machine bolts
[21:26:25] <malcom2073> You building something from a kit or pre-done designs, or are you brave enough to strike out on your own?
[21:27:13] <HoppingMadMan> We bought the controller and the rest is on are own
[21:28:03] <malcom2073> What controller?
[21:28:08] <HoppingMadMan> My father in law is an fitter and turner, he sketched out
[21:29:00] <HoppingMadMan> He bought an Mark3 but he wants it to not run on Windows
[21:29:07] <HoppingMadMan> He wants to use Linux
[21:29:14] <malcom2073> What's a mark3?
[21:29:27] <malcom2073> mach3?
[21:29:43] <malcom2073> Don't use that, LinuxCNC is the way to go
[21:30:06] <HoppingMadMan> Ok, that is the one he wants to uses
[21:30:25] <HoppingMadMan> When he gets an idea in his head he will go to the point of failure
[21:30:33] <HoppingMadMan> And I have been pulled into the mess
[21:30:53] <malcom2073> Heh... well designing your own machine from scratch is a sure fire way to learn how to fail gracefully :-P
[21:31:47] <HoppingMadMan> Indeed, from what I have been reading though the mach3 has an lot of issues on Linux
[21:31:52] <HoppingMadMan> That is what I worry about.
[21:31:56] <malcom2073> Mach3 doesn't work on linux
[21:31:56] <malcom2073> period
[21:32:03] <malcom2073> It's a windows solution
[21:33:04] <HoppingMadMan> Yeah, that sad is there any reason why? I used linux for years I find hard to believe nobody has tried and go it working
[21:33:05] <fenn> can mach3 even run a lathe? (or screw machine or whatever it is that will be making bolts)
[21:33:39] <malcom2073> Because more people use winodws than linux. You can't "try" to get it working, it won't work.
[21:33:42] <malcom2073> fenn: Yep
[21:33:51] <fenn> and do spindle synchronized threading?
[21:34:02] <malcom2073> fenn: Supposidly
[21:34:50] <malcom2073> HoppingMadMan: If you're thinking "wine" or some such thing, hardware control via wine is buggy at best, and certainly not something you can do motion control properly though
[21:35:34] <HoppingMadMan> Yeah, Thanks malcom2073
[21:36:35] <HoppingMadMan> I thought it would be like that... Well he wants to build them and sell them so maybe with the help of this community we can make them run CNC-Linux
[21:36:56] <malcom2073> LinuxCNC is pretty easy to set up and use
[21:37:24] <Valen> you blokes might be the right ones to give some advice on this, I've been getting brown water out of the pressure relief valve of our hot water tank, I'm guessing its sediment getting stirred up when it heats. Anyway this is the anode in there at the moment, how does it look to you? http://imgur.com/a/MWgFf
[21:38:03] <HoppingMadMan> I don't think I will have trouble, I have been using Linux for years now as, as my degree is network security and well, I find Windows super painful to uses
[21:38:08] <malcom2073> Keep your head in the game though, one thing at a time. If you've not started designing a machine, you're quite a far ways away from having anything working, much less sellable heh
[21:38:23] <CaptHindsight> Valen: looks pretty rusty to me
[21:38:45] <CaptHindsight> Valen: how old is the tank?
[21:38:45] <Valen> CaptHindsight: that's what I thought, which is interesting because its either aluminium or magnesium ;->
[21:39:00] <Valen> 5-7years something like that
[21:39:09] <CaptHindsight> well water?
[21:39:14] <Valen> town water
[21:39:32] <Valen> If i scrape the crud layer off there is plenty of metal there
[21:39:52] <CaptHindsight> I've had brown water from the city when they were doing work, replacing mains and similar
[21:40:05] <Valen> its only from the relief valve
[21:40:17] <HoppingMadMan> Yeah Thanks malcom2073, and the fact my father in law wants to sell them, well having windows of them might not be an bad thing for us as we always sell support because of how bad windows runs
[21:40:21] <Valen> I noticed it when it was leaking, so I replaced it and its full of crap
[21:40:34] <Valen> as in the PRV had crud sitting on it
[21:41:06] <malcom2073> Well, Mach3 doesn't do parallel port control on Win 7, youcan't sell WinXP, so you'd have to buy and sell offloaded driver modules too
[21:41:21] <malcom2073> Which brings in its own whole slew of issues (not to mention the joys of Microsoft licensing)
[21:41:37] <Valen> just all the other pictures I've seen of anodes had them being generally whiteish and with bits midding, like you would normally get with aluminium if something is eating it
[21:41:47] <Valen> bits missing rather
[21:41:51] <CaptHindsight> Valen: are you in an old part of town?
[21:42:06] <Valen> if you want to sell them HoppingMadMan I'd go linuxCNC with a mesa board
[21:42:19] <malcom2073> Definently, way less support required, way less headaches
[21:42:22] <Valen> somewhat, they are replacing gal pipes around the place
[21:42:27] <furrywolf> Valen: do you have steel pipes, either in your house, or in your water source?
[21:42:43] <Valen> probbably gal(steel) pipes somewhere in the chain
[21:42:45] <HoppingMadMan> yeah, that is what I wanted but my father in law saw the Mach3 and was like that and linux
[21:42:57] <HoppingMadMan> Never reads, but well my mess now...
[21:43:01] <malcom2073> Heh
[21:43:02] <furrywolf> then clean the anode off, stick it back in, and don't worry about it. :)
[21:43:05] <Valen> like mach3 and linux is linuxcnc
[21:43:19] <Valen> furrywolf: heh can't no room above the tank ;->
[21:43:28] <Valen> I'll get a flexible manesium one to replace it
[21:43:30] <CaptHindsight> Valen: I've gotten calls from the Gold Coast looking for resins to reline pipe and sewer
[21:43:49] <Valen> oh that's right I forgot you were in .au too
[21:43:56] <furrywolf> open the drain valve occasionally to remove sediment, and test the t&p valve occasionally so it doesn't rust shut. (but does start leaking - plan on replacing it occasionally)
[21:44:02] <CaptHindsight> Valen: USA
[21:44:23] <Valen> CaptHindsight: my bad
[21:44:51] <CaptHindsight> no problem, I was looking for space down in Melbourne a few years ago
[21:44:52] <Valen> the pressure valve actuates on every heating cycle, I think the old one just got crap wedged in it
[21:45:04] <HoppingMadMan> My house in SA where I uses to live, the pipes would always get like that because we where at the end of the line stuff SA Water, I am sure QLD water isn't any better
[21:45:10] <furrywolf> no, if it had crap in it, it would dribble all the time, not only when heating.
[21:45:18] <furrywolf> you may need an expansion tank, or if you have one, it's waterlogged.
[21:45:20] <Valen> yes it was dribbiling all the time
[21:45:22] <CaptHindsight> might have lead to the confusion
[21:45:27] <Valen> like i said it was leaking
[21:46:08] <furrywolf> then toss a new one in it. :)
[21:46:13] <Valen> I did
[21:46:19] <Valen> which is why i said "so i replaced it"
[21:46:53] <HoppingMadMan> We have to replace ours ever single year into the house and the ones in the house ever few years...
[21:47:07] <Valen> They don't do drain valves here (australia) by default it seems. I do have a dual output tank though so I'll put a ball valve on the other outlet and drain it that way
[21:47:08] <furrywolf> oh. so then there's no problem at all, and other than opening the drain valve for 30 seconds every year, you're good. :P
[21:47:30] <Valen> just got to do it on the weekend so it can re-heat before night time
[21:47:31] <furrywolf> hrmm. I've never seen, here in the US, a water heater without a bottom-of-tank drain valve.
[21:47:42] <fenn> now i remember, mach3 does a half-ass spindle synchronization using only one encoder pulse per revolution and estimating the speed from that, so if the spindle RPM changes in the middle of the cut it messes up the threads
[21:47:43] <Valen> I've never seen one with one ;->
[21:47:55] <furrywolf> what the heck is wrong with aussies? :P
[21:48:09] <furrywolf> you never need to move a water heater after installing it? :P
[21:48:12] <Valen> HoppingMadMan: I tell you what you want on your tank, a seperate pressure valve and temperature valve
[21:48:38] <Valen> you just unscrew the plumbing if you are doing that I presume
[21:48:45] <HoppingMadMan> I think that now do in newer houses Valen, well SA they where starting
[21:48:55] <Valen> they have that in the regulation in VIC, its not there for NSW yet
[21:48:58] <furrywolf> is your plumbing not attached to the top of the tank?
[21:49:09] <Valen> cold water comes in the bottom, hot water out the top
[21:49:35] <HoppingMadMan> Not my problem anymore Valen, don't live in Australia anymore... In Mexico and well and don't get me started with there plumbing.... Its really crap
[21:49:40] <furrywolf> you have weird water heaters over there. :P
[21:49:54] <furrywolf> ours have both fittings on top, with a tube inside the tank bringing the cold water down to the bottom.
[21:49:54] <Valen> lol that sounds like a whole different set of problems HoppingMadMan
[21:50:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/atc-tool-holder quality comes at a price, so this one is FREE!
[21:50:14] <Valen> seems silly to have a tube inside the tank when you don't need to
[21:50:31] <Valen> I'll take 10 CaptHindsight
[21:50:54] <malcom2073> Lol that pixelated picture
[21:50:59] <CaptHindsight> shipping is $900 lol
[21:51:01] <furrywolf> Valen: it's supposedly carefully shaped to make sure the cold water sits at the bottom rather than mixes with the hot water, like if you just stuck a pipe in the side of the tank at the bottom. :)
[21:51:15] <Valen> if the product is of similar quality to the picture...
[21:51:45] <Valen> furrywolf: all the pictures I've seen of the inside of an american hot water tank just have a pipe hanging down
[21:51:47] * furrywolf usually figures sites like that exist just to get your credit card info, and do not actually ship products.
[21:51:58] <furrywolf> Valen: hence supposedly. :)
[21:52:00] <fenn> Valen: it's a sacrificial anode to prevent the tank itself from rusting, and it's easy to replace, so just replace it
[21:52:25] <HoppingMadMan> Valen, if you ever make it to Mexico you will find open waterways everywhere and the smell, due to the pipes blowing and leaving dirty water everywhere, I do miss the smell of Australia
[21:52:35] <furrywolf> but that explains why we have drains and you do not... with both pipes on top, there's no way to get the water out without a drain.
[21:52:42] <Valen> fenn: I know what it is, my question is why is it covered in brown crap when all the pictures I have seen of them show them being whiteish in colour
[21:52:54] <CaptHindsight> fenn: mach3 allows you to move the MPG/pendant to change position without physically moving your XY or Z
[21:53:03] <fenn> because there is iron in the water i guess
[21:53:06] <Valen> furrywolf: that would explain it
[21:53:32] <CaptHindsight> it's a handy feature to crash your machine
[21:53:41] <fenn> i don't even know what that means
[21:53:58] <fenn> you can set a work offset from the pendant?
[21:54:04] <Valen> also I have a "dual handed" tank, so it can take water in/out on two sides, I'll just turn one of them into a drain ;->
[21:54:16] <CaptHindsight> fenn: without you realizing it, yes
[21:54:27] <furrywolf> Valen: here we just put the fittings on the top, so there is no wrong side for the fittings to be stuck on. :P
[21:55:10] <Valen> you also need to put S bends in them to stop all your hot water running away ;-P
[21:55:27] <furrywolf> and you don't? :P
[21:55:35] <furrywolf> we use heat traps that have little flappers in them
[21:55:55] <Valen> nah my plumbing runs under the house so my pipe just runs down from the top of the tank, job done ;->
[21:56:14] <CaptHindsight> fenn: the position for XYZ will change on the screen, but none of the axes have actually moved, position info is not based on any input from the encoders
[21:56:39] <Valen> my plumbing is un-insulated and I just put a meter of insulating over the pipe where it comes out of the tank job done lol
[21:59:01] <furrywolf> you can run pipes down here too. lol
[22:00:49] <CaptHindsight> Valen: have you seen any weather under 10C this winter yet?
[22:01:05] <Valen> its been friggin freezing CaptHindsight
[22:01:24] <Valen> like literally, I had to hose the windscreen off this morning to take the missus to the station
[22:01:38] <CaptHindsight> really, i thought it was just the far south getting the cold
[22:02:07] <Valen> I think penrith has hit 0C (western sydney), south west (camden) has gone -4 or so
[22:07:29] <Valen> hmm, I reckons the brown crap in my tank is probably crap off that anode
[22:07:36] <Valen> that'd explain a lot
[22:15:59] <furrywolf> I reckons you're worrying about it too much, and as long as you have hot water, there's nothing wrong. :)
[22:16:19] <fenn> everything's fine until your house blows up
[22:27:30] <just_pink_> what is the minimum resulution for servo spindle?
[22:28:31] <fenn> 1 pulse per revolution
[22:28:55] <fenn> it works better with more though
[22:29:56] <just_pink_> fenn: I mean for thapping
[22:36:19] <cradek> you obviously can't tap with that
[22:36:46] <cradek> you need real quadrature and index
[22:37:13] <cradek> people get by with low hundreds of ppr on spindles
[22:38:03] <just_pink_> cradek: 1000 500 100 ppr?
[22:38:58] <cradek> I like 360 because that's enough to work well, and it reads in degrees for good measure
[22:41:19] <just_pink_> http://www.cui.com/product/resource/amt10-v.pdf
[22:41:32] <just_pink_> page 4
[22:42:30] <just_pink_> AMT102
[22:42:57] <cradek> if you haven't bought this yet, I recommend you get an optical encoder instead
[22:43:10] <cradek> elson tested some of these nonoptical ones and was not happy with their performance
[22:43:20] <cradek> iirc, they have lag in the output
[22:44:44] <cradek> you might want to check the list archives and see if these were the ones he was talking about
[22:44:53] <cradek> seems familiar, with the selectable (interpolated) resolution
[22:45:45] <just_pink_> I have tham on the X Y Z
[22:46:01] <just_pink_> work very nice with G320X
[22:47:12] <fenn> linuxcnc already does interpolated position though, that seems wonky interpolating from an interpolated position
[22:47:35] <fenn> i am looking at http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/encoder.9.html
[22:47:56] <fenn> "encoder.N.position-interpolated float out
[22:47:57] <fenn> Position in scaled units, interpolated between encoder counts. Only valid when velocity is approximately constant and above min-speed-estimate. Do not use for position control."
[22:48:28] <cradek> yeah the idea was you could use that for 1-ppr threading (NOT tapping of course)
[22:48:32] <cradek> I don't know how well it works in practice
[22:48:55] <cradek> fortunately more people are getting real fpga cards that can read real encoders, lately
[22:49:25] <fenn> i guess the spindle encoder resolution you need depends on the thread pitch and how precise the thread must be
[22:49:37] <fenn> a coarser thread pitch requires a better encoder
[22:50:33] <fenn> it seems easy to go overboard though.. 360ppr means you are already at 30Khz at 5000rpm which is about the limit for software encoder handling
[22:50:59] <cradek> you aren't going to tap or thread at 5krpm
[22:51:11] <cradek> and who cares if you lose count when you're not tapping or threading
[22:51:19] <fenn> sure but i'd still want the encoder to be functional at high rpms to control spindle speed
[22:51:23] <cradek> I think my vmc loses count at high spindle speeds (ttl encoder)
[22:51:47] <fenn> does it just switch to some kind of open loop speed control at high speeds?
[22:51:50] <cradek> I don't care about closed loop spindle speed. when i've tried it, it was overly complex and is really no help
[22:52:07] <fenn> not even on lathes?
[22:52:08] <cradek> there's a vfd with analog control. it works fine.
[22:52:23] <cradek> I actually tried it on the lathe. I took it out.
[22:52:32] <fenn> interesting
[22:52:34] <cradek> any vfd holds speed just great
[23:44:03] <furrywolf> just set a half dozen rat traps in the greenhouse... last night it got invaded by them, eating my grapes.
[23:44:54] <furrywolf> MINE. when the rats prune them, water them, etc, then they can eat them. until then, the punishment for eating my grapes is death.
[23:49:06] <just_pink> hi
[23:50:12] <just_pink> for the spindle what is better high torque or high speed?
[23:50:30] <furrywolf> If some of those NIMH rats show up, I'm perfectly happy to work out a cooperative relationship. Until then... death!
[23:50:39] <furrywolf> just_pink: which is better, a car or a truck?
[23:51:57] <just_pink> furrywolf: for millimg machine..
[23:52:37] <cradek> it depends on what you're cutting and very much on what diameter of tools you want to use
[23:52:52] <cradek> very small tools need very high speed but very little torque
[23:53:11] <cradek> 3/4 rougher and a 1/8 engraving bit are very different animals
[23:55:27] <just_pink> cradek: so.. to leave the spindle that come with the machine and make slow tappink spindle with encoder, and high speed spindle for engraving and pcb?
[23:55:30] <Mr_Sheesh> Grapes of furrywolf's WRATH, huh?
[23:56:19] <just_pink> tapping*
[23:56:48] <cradek> yeah it can be very nice to have two different spindles if you can swing it
[23:58:53] <just_pink> for power drwbar that will use r8 holder I will need the abillity to stop the main spindle right on the spot,
[23:59:03] <just_pink> I dont want to use the TTS
[23:59:19] <furrywolf> ... on your g0407?
[23:59:32] <cradek> TTS is a good idea because you get repeatable tool lengths
[23:59:47] <cradek> they knew what they were doing