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[00:21:08] <valen00> Zeeshan index pulse perhaps?
[00:24:55] <zeeshan-mill> its only quadrature
[00:24:57] <zeeshan-mill> brb
[02:20:23] <Deejay> moin
[04:42:53] <XXCoder> boo
[04:58:47] * Deejay frightens
[05:00:25] <syyl> :(
[05:00:35] <XXCoder> heh
[05:00:39] <XXCoder> whats up
[05:08:08] <XXCoder> pod people
[05:52:19] <XXCoder> DAAAAAAAANG
[05:52:37] <XXCoder> headlights $2.95 each, very local shipping (same city!) $15 lol
[05:52:49] <XXCoder> umm yeah lemme drive there. jeez.
[05:52:57] <Deejay> yeah, pick it up then
[05:53:14] <XXCoder> $15 worth of gas takes me to work twice
[05:53:28] <XXCoder> and store is sigficantly shorter trip lol
[06:20:55] <lair82> zeeshan, it should slide right out, are the seals stuck together, or a massive amount of crud inside binding it up? Can look in the end with a flashlight to see whats going on inside?
[07:14:00] * jthornton needs to make some 17mm balls today
[07:20:30] * skunkworks makes some sort of joke
[07:22:42] <_methods> hehe balls
[07:25:26] <archivist> spherical objects
[07:26:59] <_methods> i said balls with beavis and butthead voice too
[07:30:07] <_methods> http://www.visitseoul.net/en/article/article.do?_method=view&p=&m=0004028001001&art_id=81025&lang=en
[07:30:14] <archivist> my best spherical object was done in parts
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2007/2007_03_28_M_Cooper_clock/P3282914.JPG
[07:30:22] <_methods> heh turn the city into a water slide
[07:33:08] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/Spyder/17mm/
[07:33:53] <skunkworks> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,30530.0.html
[07:34:40] <archivist> cnc balls is cheating
[07:35:54] <_methods> those are ballsy
[07:37:23] <_methods> poor mach lol
[08:06:26] <Loetmichel> me had 2 weeks of training on the lathe in my first apprenticeship, last day: "and now show us what you all have learned: make a bunch of 30mm aluminium balls on the (NOT CNC) lathe ...
[08:06:37] <Loetmichel> ... most of our class did some eggs
[08:07:12] <Loetmichel> ... i sat down, cot a sin/cos table, made a table for evert 10th of x.... and THEN staerted to turn the balls...
[08:07:26] <Loetmichel> afterwards i had to do a bit of sanding-> perfect round ;)
[08:08:13] <Loetmichel> apprentice master "thats bordering on cheating, but well done!"#
[08:08:16] <Loetmichel> :-)
[08:08:25] <archivist> use a tube ground flat and hardened on a rest, perfect balls
[08:13:10] <archivist> or a bit of paper cut as a template and held against the work
[08:14:09] <Loetmichel> we had templetes made of sheet steel
[08:14:17] <Loetmichel> still after 2 weeks...
[08:14:28] <Loetmichel> never had a lathe at my fingertips beforehand ;-)
[08:14:33] <Loetmichel> i am an electronican ;)
[08:14:55] <Loetmichel> as were the rest of the apprentices
[08:15:29] <Loetmichel> thats why we had only 2 wees lathe, 2 weeks milling and a few months of filing/sawing/grinding/forging
[08:15:32] <Loetmichel> (cold)+
[08:15:47] <archivist> hand turn and rest with paper template
http://gears.archivist.info/IMG_1822.JPG
[08:16:56] <Loetmichel> archivist: that wasw nearly 30 jears ago, i was young
[08:17:01] <archivist> I lied, that was a brass template
[08:17:05] <Loetmichel> today i had a bunch of tricks to do that
[08:17:26] <Loetmichel> but after two weeks of lathe training its a hard job to do a ball ;)
[08:17:39] <Loetmichel> s/had/would have
[08:18:29] <lair82> Hey guys, anybody know why the usb ports would shut down when the OS loads. The keyboard and mouse work fine for the bios, but as soon as the software starts loading, they shut off and won't turn back on.
[08:19:39] <lair82> All brand new stuff too, Asrock MB D1800B-ITX, with a Samsung SSD 850 EVO
[08:26:23] <CaptHindsight> Intel's patented crappy firmware?
[08:28:55] <cradek> what os?
[08:29:13] <lair82> I was trying to load ubuntu
[08:29:20] <cradek> what version of ubuntu?
[08:30:06] <cradek> don't say 10 don't say 10
[08:31:28] <lair82> Honestly, I tried debian wheezy, then I went back to my 10.04 cd, and I see it on both discs.
[08:31:49] <cradek> yuck, must be new breakage then
[08:31:58] <cradek> try fiddling with all the bios settings I guess :-(
[08:34:13] <Tom_itx> there was a USB issue that was supposedly fixed
[08:34:42] <Tom_itx> wheezy works on my asrock board
[08:34:59] <cradek> there was a usb issue that WAS fixed on some boards, but who knows what the manufacturers screwed up today
[08:35:12] <cradek> lair82: if your wheezy image is old, freshen it
[08:35:14] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: was it a kernel issue?
[08:35:25] <Tom_itx> capn, i don't recall
[08:35:39] <cradek> a kernel patch fixed it
[08:36:27] <CaptHindsight> lair82: check the BIOS version of your board, see if it's the latest or an older rev
[08:36:44] <Tom_itx> iirc i used a newer wheezy image disk
[08:36:50] <cradek> yes we've seen some shockingly broken bioses lately
[08:37:18] <CaptHindsight> cradek: and it's just going to get worse, unfortunately
[08:39:40] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if EFI backdoors and remote monitoring features work flawlessly or if it's just overall incompetence
[09:10:52] <lair82> No luck, Thinking about this, I didn't see this problem until I tried installing that freedos OS yesterday. Could that software set something irrecoverably on the MB that would cause this
[09:11:20] <lair82> I have a different SSD hooked up now, and see the same results.
[09:11:40] <skunkworks> and you have the latest livecd>
[09:11:41] <skunkworks> ?
[09:12:00] <CaptHindsight> lair82: have you completely removed the power from the board for a minute?
[09:14:30] <skunkworks> http://shapertools.com/
[09:18:39] <lair82> I just had it unhooked for about 10 mins came back in, and the same results.
[09:19:34] <lair82> I just made a fresh livecd about a week ago.
[09:21:28] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I wonder how long the positioners will last?
[09:21:58] <skunkworks> positioners?
[09:22:05] <skunkworks> oh - forgot I posted that link
[09:22:52] <lair82> I just hooked up a another SSD that is already configured for Debian Wheezy (backup in case of a torched drive in my VMC), and it gives this fault on startup " usb 1-1: device not accepting address 1, error -110"
[09:24:27] <lair82> And it went down all the way to address 5, the ngave another error of "unable to enumerate USB Device on port 1"
[09:25:19] <CaptHindsight> lair82: and you didn't have any Linux USB issues until you tried freedos on this MB?
[09:26:53] <lair82> Then down below that I see, "fsck died with exit status 4, failed (code 4), An automatic file system check (fsck) of the root file system failed. A manual fsck must be performed, then the system restarted"
[09:27:58] <CaptHindsight> lair82: does USB work while running the LiveCD, not installing it?
[09:28:16] <lair82> Didn't try that
[09:29:04] <lair82> The mouse doesn't work at that point, I can't move the cursor around to select run or install.
[09:29:27] <CaptHindsight> at what point?
[09:30:32] <lair82> Trying to use the live CD, the usb devices shut off just after the little emblem at the bottom of "keyboard = little man" during the boot sequence.
[09:31:47] <CaptHindsight> lair82: try a Fedora 21 LiveCD or something else new with a different kernel
[09:32:11] <lair82> It has to be something set in the MB, but I have legacy mode turned on, I flashed the bios for the board.
[09:32:25] <CaptHindsight> turn legacy off
[09:33:44] <CaptHindsight> they may as well call it "Legacy Fred mode with a side of fries"
[09:34:24] <cradek> are you sure the usb worked before you tried freedos, and stopped working afterward?
[09:43:24] <lair82> I am pretty certain, because I ran the livecd, and tested Ubuntu on it, then tried installing freedos, and now I see these probelms
[09:43:56] <cradek> that seems unlikely to have broken it. did you change any bios settings to install freedos?
[09:44:37] <lair82> Nope,
[09:45:56] <lair82> I ordered another board, I had to order some OS for it anyway, and an IDE adapter to get the data off of the old disk as well, be three days out though.
[09:47:45] <lair82> I tried running DBAN on the SSD after the failed freedos install and I kept getting nonfatal errors trying to run it, not sure if that says anything.
[09:51:29] <CaptHindsight> lair82: just to be clear. Are the USB ports still working fine when in EFI/BIOS?
[09:52:25] <_methods> so they worked while using livecd but once you installed they quit working?
[09:52:46] <lair82> Yes
[09:52:51] <_methods> you might want to fire it up on the livecd and see what usb drivers are active vs what it's trying to use after install
[09:53:19] <lair82> Yes to working fine when in EFI/BIOS
[09:53:20] <_methods> the actual install must be loading the wrong stuff
[09:54:31] <CaptHindsight> oh so the USB still works when running the LiveCD from the CD not installing it
[09:54:48] <lair82> I didn't make it to the install point, the keyboard and mouse shut off, so I could not select to try it out or install software.
[09:55:09] <_methods> did you pick gui install?
[09:57:56] <lair82> _methods, which os are you referring to?
[09:58:08] <_methods> debian
[09:58:24] <_methods> that was what you were initially going to install correct?
[10:01:32] <_methods> seems to be a common problem with gigabyte motherboards
[10:01:53] <_methods> some option in the bios called IOMMU
[10:02:05] <_methods> probably not the same issue you're having though
[10:03:13] <CaptHindsight> lair82: are you certain that you didn't make any changes to BIOS setting after having USB work with Linux?
[10:03:25] <lair82> No I tried the ubuntu livecd, not the install just running it live, then I tried to install freedos, which faulted on the install, so I tried to run Dban to clean the SSD and start over, and thats when Dban faulted and would not even run, and then after that is when I noticed that usb devices would not work.
[10:04:35] <lair82> I reset the bios twice, cleared the cmos, then ran the flash update for the MB with the latest bios firmware I downloaded from Asrocks website.
[10:04:50] <lair82> And I still see the same problem.
[10:06:21] <CaptHindsight> oh so freedos never installed, where did you download it from since sourceforge was down yesterday?
[10:06:57] <lair82> freedos.org
[10:07:31] <lair82> http://www.freedos.org/download/
[10:08:03] <lair82> The download image at the top, fd11src.iso
[10:08:40] <lair82> Apparently this wasn't the right one, or something is messed up with this download.
[10:08:43] <CaptHindsight> lair82: when you said "yes" above was it to my question or methods?
[10:09:12] <CaptHindsight> "Yes to working fine when in EFI/BIOS" nevermind
[10:09:41] <CaptHindsight> so the hardware isn't broken if USB still works in EFI/BIOS
[10:09:46] <lair82> To your questions, the usb devices (mouse, keyboard, and thumbdrive) all work fine in the bios section
[10:10:27] <pcw_home> Are you _really really_ sure you have a current wheezy image
[10:10:29] <pcw_home> The failure to enumerate error is exactly what you get with an early RTAI kernel and a J1800
[10:10:31] <CaptHindsight> lair82: is USB Legacy Mode turned OFF?
[10:12:48] <lair82> I did turn it off, then the usb ports were off all the time, and I could not get back into bios turn them back on, so I reset the bios again to get things working as far as they were before that.
[10:13:46] <lair82> I am downloading the latest .iso now from the website,
[10:14:16] <CaptHindsight> you could not get back into the BIOS menu? why not? what was happening?
[10:14:36] <lair82> All of this just so I can run that one single program from cincinnati milacron to load programs to three turning centers.
[10:15:15] <CaptHindsight> well you also picked a board that had USB issues with Linux at one time
[10:15:28] <CaptHindsight> fun isn't it :)
[10:15:48] <lair82> After I disableb legacy mode, and saved the changes and exited the bios screen, the usb ports all shut off, and would not come back on regardless of what I did, re-boot, unplug let sit, nothing.
[10:16:25] <cradek> can you just return it and use a working computer instead?
[10:16:36] <CaptHindsight> good idea
[10:16:46] <cradek> that's what andy did when he bought a frustrating dud
[10:17:52] <lair82> Thats the thing, I would rather run a linux based OS, and be able to use the software from milacron on it, instead of forking over a hundred bucks for windows 32bit, which this stuff will run on.
[10:17:54] <pcw_home> you need legacy mode for DOS do not turn it off
[10:19:17] <lair82> We don't have any spare pc's, so I rolled my own based off of what it required, not very much, really, just a serial port, and the ability to run that milacron program.
[10:19:23] <pcw_home> The ubuntu live cd is know to have USB issues with the J1800 (it will never work on any J1800s)
[10:19:53] <pcw_home> the forst wheezy image is the same, it turns off USB when its starts up
[10:19:58] <pcw_home> first
[10:20:00] <CaptHindsight> USB Legacy Mode, ON for DOS, OFF for Linux
[10:20:45] <lair82> Ok, so maybe there isn't anything wrong, I just need to get windows going on it.
[10:20:48] <CaptHindsight> you just hope that the BIOS dev doesn't have dyslexia
[10:21:22] <lair82> Can I write the new .iso over the old one on my thumb drive?
[10:21:26] <pcw_home> Thats what I asked about whether you have a _current_ wheezy install image
[10:21:40] <pcw_home> s/what/why/
[10:21:42] <CaptHindsight> or similar condition that causes bit or ON/OFF flipping
[10:21:59] <pcw_home> no its a kernel problem
[10:22:17] <pcw_home> a well known kernel issue
[10:22:47] <CaptHindsight> can't he use the kernel that worked when he first tried the MB?
[10:22:48] <pcw_home> on j1800s and J1900s (and other Baytrail CPUs) no BIOS involvement at all
[10:24:09] <pcw_home> AFAIKR the J1800s have a built in USB hub that early kernels inadvertently power down at at startup
[10:25:05] <pcw_home> if you have a mouse with a red LED you can watch the light go out...
[10:25:10] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: I understand, but he said that the LiveCD had USB when he first tried it
[10:25:47] <pcw_home> you will have USB up to a point...
[10:28:07] <CaptHindsight> will you have USB on the first boot in Linux when the desktop is working?
[10:28:23] <pcw_home> no
[10:30:04] <CaptHindsight> so unless his info wasn't clear, he did have working USB on his desktop with Linux using the LiveCD
[10:30:28] <lair82> I could have sworn it worked, but it's hard telling, I was working this new machine, my linux test pc trying out Andy pughs new carousel component, and fixing a display issue on turning center in the shop, all at the same time.
[10:30:40] <cradek> it can be really hard to correctly recall a complex series of events strung out over several days
[10:30:54] <lair82> cradek, AMEN
[10:31:15] <CaptHindsight> yeah, understandable, I forgot was I was doing minutes ago :)
[10:31:25] <cradek> that is one of the things that makes troubleshooting so hard
[10:31:31] <archivist> ooooh shiny
[10:31:40] <cradek> and helping people on irc :-)
[10:31:44] <archivist> and you have lost track
[10:32:01] <cradek> it's improbable that the freedos boot broke your usb for linux, even if that's the pattern you recall
[10:32:12] * Loetmichel just mounted a 4mm thick shielding glass pane onto a 50" tft tv... that added 16kg. SLIGHTLY bad in handling now that beast...
[10:32:18] <CaptHindsight> would be odd
[10:32:27] <cradek> so let's move on and make sure you're booting the correct live image
[10:32:58] <cradek> so md5sum the one you have, let's check it's the right one, and then you can freshly dd your usb stick and try it
[10:33:12] <lair82> I hear you, I still can't get at either machine to do that bisect to figure out what the hell the problem is with halui, it will probably be friday the looks.
[10:33:43] <cradek> heh no pressure
[10:36:54] <lair82> I tried plugging my thumb drive in with my .iso image on it, but I can't see it in "My Computer"
[10:37:48] <lair82> 9 Mins left on my current download. The image I have been using is from roughly last septemberish
[10:38:06] <cradek> you should've used zsync
[10:38:11] <lair82> Debian Wheezy Image that is.
[10:38:27] <lair82> zsync for what, what is that?
[10:39:50] <CaptHindsight> ok so 10 month old LiveCD
[10:40:05] <lair82> Ok, I just read what Zsync is,
[10:40:07] <cradek> it's for downloading big files that have only changed a little
[10:40:19] <cradek> it only downloads the changes, and it makes sure your final result is right
[10:40:42] <lair82> My debian image is 10 months old, my ubuntu image is only a week old.
[10:40:43] <cradek> a dumb download, like in a web browser, is not reliable and you have to check the md5sum
[10:41:51] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/Getting-LinuxCNC.html#_download_using_zsync
[10:42:58] <pcw_home> the ubuntu _kernel_ is years old
[10:43:39] <lair82> How do I erase what's on the current thumb drive, to put the new image back on it, if my PC doesn't see the thumb drive when it's plugged in right now?
[10:44:20] <cradek> don't. just use dd.
[10:45:33] <cradek> instructions at the bottom:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Hybrid_Iso
[10:45:37] <lair82> I just checked the md5sum, it's good
[10:45:43] <cradek> yay
[11:08:00] <greg___> Finally, success with the Emco.
[11:10:12] <greg___> The door problems I was having were my fault. I had disconnected the air cylinder for the door so I could open it before I powered it up. Apparently the longer hose didn't connect to the valve that was further away.
[11:12:50] <greg___> I need to find a PC case that fits in the cabinet though. This one is too big. It's 900MHz on W98.
[11:17:03] <archivist> if its in the cabinet does it need a case
[11:18:01] <SpeedEvil> archivist: yeah - I mean - what problem could chips possibly cause
[11:18:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:18:14] <SpeedEvil> (yes, I know)
[11:18:35] <SpeedEvil> But if you don't need a cosmetically acceptable PC case, it's a lot easier
[11:18:45] <archivist> the cabinet is sealed (should be)
[11:20:06] <SpeedEvil> Dropping stuff on the PC guts while servicing would be bad
[11:20:41] <archivist> I killed a commodore pet that way :)
[11:21:01] <archivist> fix psu, carry on
[11:22:40] <greg___> I could just throw the motherboard in there, but not really what I want.
[11:25:52] <greg___> I have an old dell desktop, but I don't want to reinstall everything. There is a computer recycling place in town, I'll see what they have.
[11:28:47] <pcw_home> Typically you can just swap the linuxcnc hard drive to the new system (no re-installation required)
[11:30:29] <greg___> Yes, This is W98 for the Emco. Than would make moving the Linuxcnc setup I started on the dell for a lathe easy though.
[11:31:42] <greg___> different topic. Is it possible to home Lcnc with a prox and index on the xis encoder?
[11:32:02] <pcw_home> windows is typically not portable the same way (blue screens if old or license problems if new)
[11:32:48] <greg___> that is the axis would home until the prox trips, then look for the encoder index to set home?
[11:33:09] <pcw_home> should be possible
[11:33:45] <pcw_home> Is this a servo system?
[11:34:47] <pcw_home> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
[11:35:10] <greg___> The Emco homes somethign like that. I may do the same on my lathe. Right now i have parts to set up a mesa stepper card to drive gecko servos, backwards i know don't shoot me.
[11:35:19] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i am kind of lost why im getting lost position ocasionally for Y axis
[11:35:28] <zeeshan> do you think i need to buy a scope
[11:35:31] <zeeshan> and measure the analog signal?
[11:36:16] <pcw_home> looks like something wrong with either the Y scale or interpolator
[11:36:40] <zeeshan> if it was the Y interpolator
[11:36:48] <zeeshan> wouldn't i be able to see that in halscope?
[11:37:56] <pcw_home> I dont think you can tell whether its a scale of interpolater problem with halscope
[11:38:18] <pcw_home> scale _or_ interpolater
[11:39:19] <pcw_home> I would try (carefully) swapping interpolaters and see if the problem follows the scale or interpolator
[11:41:43] <zeeshan> that is a good idea
[11:41:45] <zeeshan> ill try that
[11:41:46] <pcw_home> greg___: homing to index is probably possible with the step/dir servos but awkward because the encoder signals (A,B,Z) must got to the Gecko drive and linuxcnc
[11:42:56] <pcw_home> there is index support in the step/dir hardware but the hm2 driver does not currently support it
[11:44:46] <pcw_home> so you must currently use the encoder and run a closed loop step/dir system ( position loop closed in LinuxCNC )
[11:44:48] <pcw_home> to support homing to index with step/dir drives
[11:48:54] <JT-Shop> windoze installing update 1 of 2 should only take a half a day :(
[11:49:33] <archivist> andypugh, holiday espania or on a works jolly :)
[11:49:36] <JT-Shop> time for a new keyboard on the CHNC, battery leaked
[11:49:43] <greg___> OK. I guess closed loop is the way to go. I was already thinking of going that route.
[11:52:52] <andypugh> archivist: Work non-jolly. Alttude testing at Granada. Driving a car up and down a mountain at different speeds and trailer loads monitoring temperatures and pressures.
[11:53:28] <archivist> I thought it would be work :)
[11:53:42] <archivist> the hostmask looked odd :)
[11:54:39] <archivist> should know the bends after a few (hundred) trips
[12:10:57] <lair82> Hey Guys, just got my debian image updated, set the pc back up, and now everything is working fine with the USB devices.
[12:11:11] <lair82> Thanks for all the help.
[12:14:33] <lair82> For what it's worth, should I update the software, in regards to the debian image, on the two VMC's I am still in the middle of setting up right now?
[12:18:19] <CaptHindsight> good so it's just the old kernel problem
[12:20:54] <lair82> Apparently, looks good now.
[12:22:22] <lair82> andypugh, I am playing with the carousel component, looks promising so far, just a note though, when you start up linuxcnc, home it out, then make your first tool change it looks good, the nwhen you try to make the second tool change I get a fault at the bottom,
[12:23:33] <andypugh> What fault?
[12:23:59] <andypugh> Have you made absolutely sure that the G-code routine is absolutely correct for your toolchanger?
[12:24:24] <andypugh> There is no danger of expensive damage with the Vismach model, but there is with a real oe...
[12:24:29] <lair82> 9:duplicate O-word label - already defined in line 29: 'O200 IF [#<selected_tool> GT 0]'
[12:24:54] <lair82> I haven't even put it on my VMC yet, just my PC in my office.
[12:25:18] <lair82> Still need to look at the files, to see how it compares to my machine.
[12:26:58] <lair82> The only visual difference I see so far is, My carousel is fixed in place, I have a single ended tool changer arm that goes in/out, up/down, and spins from the carousel to the spindle. This also means the spindle just goes to the top of it's travel and sits there for the entire tool change.
[12:27:49] <lair82> But I would imagine once I look at the hal and ini files, I should be able to tie your component into my machine.
[12:29:00] <lair82> If you clear the fault, you can make another tool change call, and it will change tools, and the fault never comes back. It only happens on the second toolchange after re-starting Linuxcnc.
[12:42:04] <MrFluffy> I need to write a ebay bid sniper with dependancies
[12:42:30] <MrFluffy> if item x goes for more than y then bid on z instead, and if that goes for more than y amount, bid on next item instead... sort of thing
[12:43:30] <MrFluffy> sorry wrong channel :)
[12:44:22] <archivist> its you sniping my ikea shelves!
[12:44:41] <MrFluffy> no, it would cut down on me owning 3 of something...
[12:44:50] <Loetmichel> *meh* that WASNT a nice commute home. 50cc motorcyle has spewed out some bearing balls from the rear wheel... including parts of the races... the hub looks like a volcano where the bearing was... and because its vintage i dont know if i can source another rear wheel... :-(
[12:46:17] <archivist> MrFluffy, I won 4 on sunday still waiting on the sellers address and a time to pickup
[12:46:52] <MrFluffy> I mean, I bid on something, but I only want to bid on another of the same thing if I dont win that item for sufficiently low price
[12:47:08] <MrFluffy> so I want to bid on them all, with ongoing dependancies on previous auctions
[12:47:28] <archivist> getting spares can be a bonus!
[12:47:34] <MrFluffy> I apparently own 3 xbox360 kinnects after the last round of not doing that...
[12:47:48] <MrFluffy> Ok I can repurpose two of them for some computer vision stuff but...
[12:47:52] <archivist> hehe
[12:48:43] <archivist> Loetmichel, plenty of wheel rebuilders around
[12:49:06] <Loetmichel> a cast aluminium wheel?
[12:49:22] <Loetmichel> whre the rim around the bearing was 3mm thick to start with?
[12:49:52] <MrFluffy> if I win something I always pay for it, no matter if I want it or not, personal ethics
[12:49:52] <MrFluffy> but... I'd like not to be in that position without upsetting anyone :-)
[12:50:01] <MrFluffy> I tried one at a time, but I always get busy about the next auction, or it happens at stupid o'clock etc.
[12:50:09] <MrFluffy> what moped is it Loetmichel ?
[12:50:21] <archivist> machine it, bush it, add a reinforcement ring outside shrunk on
[12:50:41] <Loetmichel> MrFluffy:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15295&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:50:50] <Loetmichel> gilera eaglet (typ 503)
[12:51:31] <archivist> you could make a new centre
[12:51:51] <archivist> not too difficult to machine up
[12:52:13] <MrFluffy> do you have a restricted license or some other reason for using a 50 for commuting?
[12:52:27] <Loetmichel> exactly
[12:52:43] <Loetmichel> i am only allowed to drive 50cc/50kmh with my car license
[12:52:54] <Loetmichel> on two wheels that is
[12:52:58] <Loetmichel> germany
[12:52:58] <MrFluffy> take the license asap is my recommendation
[12:53:08] <MrFluffy> 50cc = dangerous because of no performance...
[12:53:26] <andypugh> lair82: Ah, I thought I had correlated that error to asking for a tool that does not exist.
[12:53:34] <archivist> mid life crisis and large bikes is also dangerous
[12:53:44] <MrFluffy> no offense intended...
[12:53:45] <andypugh> I have absolutely no idea what causes it, as there is not a duplicate O-word lable.
[12:53:50] <Loetmichel> no cash to spend 2000 eur on a license and another 2000 eur on a bike just to be a bit cheaper on the commute to work on nice days
[12:53:58] <MrFluffy> I'm still in my first life crisis archivist
[12:54:16] <MrFluffy> that has spoked wheels in the pic, you can get the wheel rebuilt with a new hub
[12:54:28] <andypugh> I use my motorcycle on not-nice days, and the bicycle on nice days :-)
[12:54:40] <archivist> I have had my second time around on bikes :)
[12:54:50] <Loetmichel> and prerformance is ok for a 50cc, it has a 5 shift manual gearbox, sifficient to propel the bile with ME on it to about 80kmh onm the plain ;)
[12:54:51] <MrFluffy> homeworker :( but last time I worked in a office I used to commute on my kawasaki turbo
[12:54:55] <MrFluffy> it almost made work fun
[12:55:11] <andypugh> I never stopped, I haven’t owned a car. But then the job rather means I don’t need to.
[12:55:42] <lair82> andypugh, no big deal, I was just letting you know,
[12:55:43] <Loetmichel> the hub also holds the brake disc and the sprocket and is sadly type specific, MrFluffy
[12:55:48] <Loetmichel> and made of cast aluminium
[12:55:59] <MrFluffy> you must be able to find a wheel in the breakers fairly easily though
[12:56:15] <Loetmichel> breakers?
[12:56:22] <lair82> Why so much for a motorcycle license???
[12:56:25] <archivist> scrap yard
[12:56:27] <MrFluffy> it doesnt look very old... to me :)
[12:56:31] <Loetmichel> those bikes were made 1996 to early 2000
[12:56:41] <Loetmichel> there are not that much around
[12:56:41] <MrFluffy> yep, perfect age to find in a breakers :)
[12:56:45] <archivist> hardly vintage
[12:56:47] <Loetmichel> sadly no
[12:57:09] <MrFluffy> I was thinking somethign like a fantic chopper :)
[12:57:16] <Loetmichel> already to old to be in the scrapyards, and to young to have a "vintage spares industry" interest
[12:57:20] <MrFluffy> or a fs1e :)
[12:57:40] <Loetmichel> lair82: because germany
[12:58:19] <lair82> Thats almost 2200 USD, here in Ohio it's like 50.00
[12:59:15] <lair82> How much is a license for your car?
[12:59:20] <MrFluffy> thats the price for a riding school course and test though isnt it?
[12:59:24] <MrFluffy> not just the test
[13:00:13] <lair82> Here they give you book, tell you to go home and read it, then bring a bike back and do the obstacle course, take a test, and your done.
[13:00:50] <lair82> OF course we probably have a few morons and accidents than you do in Germany.
[13:02:03] <lair82> have a few _more_ morons and accidents
[13:04:54] <Loetmichel> lair82: about 2500 for a car license
[13:05:04] <Loetmichel> eur
[13:05:37] <Loetmichel> MrFluffy: you have about 30 mandatory school practice hours before you can take the test
[13:05:47] <Loetmichel> thats why its so expensive
[13:06:25] <archivist> I got my full license before that silly stuff started :)
[13:06:59] <archivist> examiner stood on the road watching you go by
[13:08:40] <andypugh> Me too. even then it seemed crazy.
[13:08:43] <Loetmichel> MrFluffy: btw: you are right for cars
[13:08:50] <MrFluffy> wow just reading that... you dont have to take the training, as long as you can pass the test elsewhere
[13:08:51] <Loetmichel> age-> scrapper wise
[13:09:15] <Loetmichel> but for 50cc: they are normally driven by the 16 year olds until they can get the "big" license
[13:09:33] <Loetmichel> so they tend to sell the 50cc bikes after 2 years
[13:09:51] <MrFluffy> its 15 years old for a 50 here in france
[13:09:56] <Loetmichel> and the 3rd owner has usually totalled them
[13:09:58] <MrFluffy> or a sans permis car...
[13:10:16] <Loetmichel> so there is not much left about 8 jears after production end of a specific model
[13:10:19] <MrFluffy> theyre not horribly robust or reliable usually also, not to be rude but things break because theyre made very lightweight
[13:10:38] <MrFluffy> when I had smaller bikes, things broke a lot
[13:10:47] <Loetmichel> yeah, that eagles weights less than 120kg
[13:10:54] <MrFluffy> then when I had larger ones, its so difficult to thrash them, they last a lot longer
[13:10:55] <Loetmichel> eaglet
[13:11:13] <MrFluffy> its hard to abuse a 1100 and stay alive for long :)
[13:11:24] <andypugh> MrFluffy: Yamaha YZF-R1 = 160,000km and still very fast.
[13:11:57] <MrFluffy> I have its forebearer andy, in a posh suit, a bimota yb8e...
[13:12:26] <MrFluffy> but you get what i mean, its hard to abuse something with a lot of performance, and its made strong to cope with that performance...
[13:13:11] <MrFluffy> the bimota terrifies me still, its 120kg too... but with 165hp...
[13:13:39] <Loetmichel> instead of 3 hp ;)
[13:14:06] <Loetmichel> i have once driven a 174hp modified BMW k100
[13:14:55] <Loetmichel> THAT was fun... sitting upright at 200++kmh. behind the windshield... nicely greeting the zzr, open the throttle and be gone ;)
[13:15:20] <andypugh> Yes, it is built to survive 180hp and spends most of the time at steady speed making abiout 18hp
[13:15:22] <Loetmichel> and a ymaha biker rubbing his eyes... not to mentoin that i had no license ;-)
[13:16:20] <andypugh> Bimota apares prices would terrify me :-) R1 spaares are very readily available.
[13:17:12] <MrFluffy> just dont fall off, then its all standard yamaha parts :)
[13:17:33] <andypugh> MrFluffy: My R1 did have one annoying mechanical problem:
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/2004-yzf-r1-exhaust-flange-replacement.html
[13:18:27] <Loetmichel> harhar....
[13:18:54] <Loetmichel> i once lost my muffler after pressing the killswitch for a few secs and then release it
[13:18:56] <cradek> andypugh: that's a really great hack
[13:19:07] <Loetmichel> *BANG* *POP*
[13:19:50] <andypugh> I have no idea why they put mild-steel flanges on a Ti exhaust
[13:19:53] <Loetmichel> *PRROOOOOOOOOOO* (cue the look in the review mirror seeing the whole muffer spinning on the tarmac behind me)
[13:27:37] <JT-Shop> lol windoze still installing update 1 of 2
[13:28:01] <JT-Shop> 1 1/2 hours so far
[13:28:53] <archivist> that wonderful new font bug, probably is replacing all your fonts
[13:29:30] <archivist> I hate fixing windaz peecees for that reason
[13:34:51] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/gallery/iz00810u/ tube amplifier in the working =)
[13:51:05] <MrFluffy> sorry afk for a bit there, bloody spa going wrong yet again
[13:51:56] <MrSunshine> uhh.. that sounds nasty ...
[13:52:10] <MrSunshine> the chocolate pool ate someone ?
[13:52:28] <MrSunshine> or .. someone ate the chocolate pool?!
[13:52:30] <MrFluffy> its a tub with water and a pump, yet every day the stupid pump throws a error code and I have to go messing with it
[13:53:07] <MrFluffy> the exhaust wont fall off andys bike because its held by more than the header flanges :)
[13:53:13] <MrFluffy> just make a row
[13:55:46] <MrFluffy> shotguns on the overrun :)
[13:55:49] * JT-Shop tries to make some balls finally
[14:02:34] <MrFluffy> absolutely not to be confused with the scene coder paradroid, who wrote rink a dink redux amongst others and came from near me...
[14:05:00] <MrFluffy> grr I hate this client, sorry people
[14:19:00] <lair82> PCW your around?
[14:20:04] <PCW> sort of
[14:23:01] <lair82> Quick question, does it make a difference on the 7i49 if I have the Sine and Cosine input wiring reversed?
[14:24:00] <lair82> Inadvertently wire he sine wiring to the cosine inputs and cosine wiring to the sine inputs?
[14:28:52] <furrywolf> might count the wrong direction, not sure.
[14:30:51] <lair82> That's what I was wondering, I have a discrepancie on some resolver wiring on a machine we are retrofitting. So I am not sure.
[14:31:59] <PCW> yes backwards if you reverse one
[14:34:49] <lair82> Ok, just wondered, I will have to pay attention when we initially start the control to make sure it is counting in the right direction.
[14:37:49] <PCW> oh if you swap sine/cos it shoud just have a 1/4 turn offset in the 0 (index) position
[14:40:44] <jdh> would you ever know if it was always like that?
[14:43:26] <PCW> probably not
[14:44:22] <PCW> though it would affect limit switch/index alignment
[14:44:35] <tiwake> interesting
[14:45:51] <tiwake> yesterday my co-owner decided it would be fun to spray the laptop that we use for making programs and sending them between machines with coolant
[14:46:26] <tiwake> by spray I mean accidently turn on the coolant with the door open and the laptop sitting there where the stream went
[14:48:23] <tiwake> meh
[15:22:58] <JT-Shop> windoze still updating 3 1/2 hours so far
[15:26:28] <FinboySlick> I thought the Linux version of NX would spare me Windows forever but it is very clunky :P
[16:13:36] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you're working it too hard
[16:14:01] <JT-Shop> still updating
[16:14:25] <JT-Shop> I need to take a walk around the property, I've not done that since I buried Cocoa
[16:37:45] <Deejay> gn8
[16:58:54] <JT-Shop> 5 hours updating windoze
[17:02:27] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[17:02:43] <PetefromTn_> Never had to wait that long on an update.... is there something wrong with your PC?
[17:03:10] <JT-Shop> dunno
[17:03:19] <JT-Shop> crappy connection maybe
[17:03:48] <PetefromTn_> the only problem I ever had with an update was one part would fail to load and I kept trying it and trying it. Finally just deleted it and everything else loaded okay after that.
[17:04:35] <JT-Shop> this was an update after booting up
[17:05:06] <PetefromTn_> huh that sucks tho...
[17:08:35] <JT-Shop> I don't know if I should introduce a power surge or not lol
[17:08:50] <PetefromTn_> or some lead injection hehe
[17:10:41] <JT-Shop> I'm not that stressed yet
[17:11:53] <PetefromTn_> hopefully you won't reach that point anytime soon either LOL that gets expensive!
[17:12:29] <JT-Shop> yea, cause there is a loaded 12 gauge next to my desk with 6 rounds of buck shot in it
[17:13:06] <JT-Shop> that computer has been a pos since I built it
[17:14:01] <JT-Shop> I'm convinced that e commerce software makes more money than e commerce lol
[17:15:56] <PetefromTn_> andypugh
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205643946371418&set=gm.902767296460074&type=1&theater !!!
[17:16:33] <andypugh> “The link you followed may have expired, or the Page may only be visible to an audience that you aren't in.”
[17:16:56] <PetefromTn_> sheet
[17:17:40] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/iNnPwwN.jpg
[17:18:03] <PetefromTn_> 1945 Rivet 608 4NS with a bunch of accessories.
[17:51:02] <JT-Shop> windoze computer just had a power outage
[17:51:59] <Tom_itx> shame
[17:53:51] <JT-Shop> different update screen this time
[17:53:54] <Tom_itx> seems when you install software they want to use your pc more than you do. be it windows, firefox etc
[17:54:17] <Tom_itx> i swear FF comes out with an update every other day
[17:54:31] <JT-Shop> yea, it's a pain
[17:54:40] <tiwake> herm
[17:54:45] <JT-Shop> starting windblows again
[17:54:57] <tiwake> never made a hole that small and deep before
[17:55:21] <Tom_itx> Random thought: Every box of rasins is a tragic tale of grapes that could have been wine.
[17:55:23] <tiwake> a customer is asking about a 0.257" hole 6.5" deep
[17:55:45] <tiwake> what would I use to punch a hole that deep?
[17:55:56] <JT-Shop> lol, I much prefer wine to raisins
[17:56:09] <JT-Shop> gun drill
[17:56:17] <tiwake> link?
[17:56:36] <JT-Shop> google.com
[17:56:43] <PetefromTn_> heh
[17:56:59] <tiwake> my google-fu is broken
[17:57:10] <JT-Shop> my computer is down
[17:58:12] <JT-Shop> preparing to configure windoze do not turn off your computer
[17:58:22] <JT-Shop> at least it's a new screen lol
[17:59:48] * JT-Shop takes the Kubota down to the pet cemetery to dress up Cocoa's grave after the rain yesterday it has settled a bit
[18:04:50] <Valen> so I'm trying to simulate a mill, based on linear rails, manufacturers don't seem to publish the stiffness numbers for axial loads though?
[18:05:40] <Valen> they publish it for moment loads but TBI, NSK, and TSK all reference "K" for stiffness, but never actually give a value for it?
[18:10:23] <JT-Shop> wouldn't that have something to do with what it is mounted to?
[18:10:39] <tiwake> and how much weight the bearings are supporting
[18:17:43] <JT-Shop> f***ing windows wants to reboot again
[18:36:35] <Valen> it does, but that is a lump of steel I control, I want to know how much their bit is going to move on top of my steel
[19:13:00] <Simonious> is this the right place to come for cambam help/questions?
[19:17:54] <Tecan> only if by cambam you mean linuxemc
[19:18:17] <Tecan> there are lots of good CAD guru's here though
[19:27:17] <robinsz> evening
[19:27:37] <robinsz> so, 2.7 seems good, the lookahead trajectory planner actually works
[19:29:40] <robinsz> im impressed, I could have used this on plasmas all those years ago :) but it works great on my router
[19:30:06] <robinsz> so kudos to whoever is responsible for that
[19:37:08] <furrywolf> yeah, I've heard a lot of people saying 2.7 works much, much better than 2.6. I'll be trying it when I get a mesa board...
[19:37:26] <Tom_itx> seems alot of good features are gonna show up in it
[19:54:05] <spline> what types/brands of machines do you run linuxcnc with?
[19:54:34] <furrywolf> us specifically, or linuxcnc users in general?
[19:55:00] <spline> interested in both
[19:55:11] <spline> im new to cnc (not new to linux but love the fact you can run something on it)
[19:55:12] <furrywolf> I'm poor, so I have a chinese lathe/mill combo machine.
[19:55:23] <spline> I was specing out machines, new and looking on ebay
[19:55:32] <spline> something small just for desktop use
[19:55:53] <spline> my local hackerspace has an old bridgeport they're converting over to a gecko controller and are gonna use linuxcnc on it (huge machine but was donated)
[19:56:02] <spline> furrywolf: something via ebay/amazon?
[19:59:18] <spline> I saw a # of basic machines for a few hundred there
[20:11:45] <jdh> gecko steppers or servo?
[20:13:15] <malcom2073> steppers are cheaper, easier to setup, and for most intents, plenty powerful and accurate enough
[20:13:39] <malcom2073> Oh that was a question for spline, didn't read up enough
[20:14:22] <cradek> there are lots of mistakes one can make, but taking working servos off an industrial machine is one of the worst ones
[20:14:41] <cradek> I think jdh is politely asking whether they're making that mistake :-)
[20:14:50] <malcom2073> Heh
[20:16:26] <spline> oh
[20:16:47] <spline> whomever is doing it knows what they're doing. I just remembered the name from reading about it on candc.net
[20:18:30] <jdh> that, and gecko servo drivers seem pretty lame
[20:18:38] <DaViruz> nothing makes me cringe like seeing a nice servo machine get converted to steppers and mach3
[20:19:03] <malcom2073> I've been tempted to convert my machine over, but I'm givin it a try with a mesa board and the servo drives first.
[20:21:31] <cradek> cnc is so nice. I'm cutting this at .06 ipm for probably an hour. can't imagine feeding that by hand.
[20:23:11] <Simonious> I've got a model i've just made in solidworks (which I'm quite new to) and I want to generate some gcode for the router table (using cambam). How and what should I export from solidworks? I don't think DXF will work, because that's only for 2D? and this has z components..? please advise.
[20:23:40] <Tom_itx> iges is 3d
[20:23:48] <Tom_itx> and fairly standard
[20:23:54] <Tom_itx> stl might work
[20:24:03] <Simonious> Also I've modeled the whole object and I only want to cut the surface.. (I come from the 3d printing world)
[20:24:32] <Simonious> stls are what I usually use, but that'd have info for the whole object and I only want to cut the top face?
[20:24:39] <furrywolf> why would you ever convert a servo machine to steppers, unless you were missing the servos, encoders, and drives? heh
[20:24:49] <malcom2073> furrywolf: cheaper
[20:25:06] <furrywolf> malcom2073: not cheaper if you already have any of the parts
[20:25:10] <cradek> often making a solid model is not the simplest or fastest way to make a part with subtractive technology
[20:25:16] <cradek> that being said, I don't know how to do it
[20:25:19] <malcom2073> Debatable. I picked up a 3 axis 10 amp stepper drive for $150
[20:25:35] <malcom2073> If even one of my servo drives dies, it'll cost that much to replace each one
[20:26:02] <Simonious> cradek: that's my suspicion.. This is really the first time I've attempted a 3d model for the router, normally I just cut out shapes or engrave a name..
[20:26:16] <cradek> back up -- what are you trying to make?
[20:26:40] <Simonious> cradek: it's actually a name on a board, but I need to shape the whole face
[20:26:51] <Simonious> the name stands out from a curved front face of the board
[20:27:05] <Simonious> so I need to cut the entire face
[20:27:15] <cradek> ooh, tricky
[20:27:19] <cradek> I don't know how to do that
[20:27:23] <Tom_itx> export it with iges or stl
[20:27:25] <Simonious> Tom_itx: you mentioned iges - how is tha tused?
[20:27:27] <Simonious> *used
[20:27:34] <Tom_itx> then lay a mesh on top of the surface in cambam
[20:27:50] <Simonious> hmm, that makes some sense
[20:28:06] <Simonious> I don't know how, but I'll start working in that direction - is ignes or stl better?
[20:28:15] <Tom_itx> i generally use iges
[20:28:17] <Simonious> *iges
[20:28:18] <Simonious> why?
[20:28:30] <Tom_itx> it's farily universal
[20:28:38] * Simonious nods
[20:29:18] <Simonious> I actually don't yet know how to export from solidworks..
[20:29:20] * Simonious pokes around
[20:29:36] <Tom_itx> save as
[20:29:43] <Tom_itx> and pick your format
[20:30:28] <Simonious> heh, easy :)
[20:30:29] <Simonious> thanks
[20:30:41] <Tom_itx> check to see what cambam imports
[20:31:25] <Tom_itx> i don't use cambam so someone else here may help you with that but i'd lay a mesh on top of the surface and offset it a few times depending on the depth of cut
[20:31:33] <Simonious> hmm sad, it does stl, not igs
[20:31:45] <Tom_itx> so save as stl then
[20:33:20] <Simonious> it makes nice STLs :)
[20:34:33] <Tom_itx> a good cad cam will let you lay the mesh like a waterline so you don't waste cuts
[20:34:47] <Tom_itx> i doubt cambam will do that
[20:35:52] <Simonious> Tom_itx: what's a good one?
[20:36:15] <jdh> cut3d
[20:36:20] <Simonious> sadly I'm new to cambam too. historical I've used sketchup and slic3r for my 3d printing stuff
[20:36:21] <jdh> non-free, and windows
[20:36:29] <Tom_itx> there are quite a few but out of the hobbist's pricerange
[20:36:50] <Simonious> ahh vectric, yeah, we've got some of their products here
[20:36:54] <Tom_itx> there are addons to solidworks for cam
[20:36:58] <Tom_itx> i use smartcam
[20:37:01] <Tom_itx> mastercam is good
[20:37:05] <Tom_itx> surfacecam is good
[20:37:10] <jdh> isn't there a free SW cam thing?
[20:37:12] <Tom_itx> many more...
[20:37:21] <Tom_itx> jdh, if you own sw
[20:37:25] <Tom_itx> so i hear
[20:37:31] * Simonious ponders
[20:37:38] <jdh> doesn't work with edu version?
[20:37:41] <Simonious> I've got SW, but.. our SW veteran uses an ad on
[20:37:46] <Tom_itx> jdh, i'm not sure
[20:38:09] * furrywolf needs cad+cam software
[20:38:56] <Tom_itx> most here don't wanna use multi platform solutions... they're stuck on linux and it's tools
[20:39:19] <Tom_itx> the windows stuff is very good but very expensive
[20:39:31] <furrywolf> and involves using windows.
[20:39:34] <Tom_itx> if you're in the industry, it's just the cost of doing business
[20:39:52] <Tom_itx> i'm looking into CATIA right now
[20:40:02] <Tom_itx> it doesn't have cam though
[20:40:12] <Tom_itx> but all the plants around here use it
[20:41:35] * Simonious nods
[20:41:50] <Simonious> I'm asking in #solidworks, we'll see if they've got a nice path for generating gcode
[20:42:07] <Simonious> so far ... silence
[20:42:14] <Simonious> I'm taking that to mean they don't know. ;)
[20:42:38] <Tom_itx> there are savvy solidworks users here
[20:43:02] <Simonious> poke one, I need to know how to generate me some gcode
[20:43:35] <Simonious> and I accept that my toolchain may need work, that's part of the process.
[20:43:54] <Tom_itx> we generally encourage you do some homework first
[20:44:14] <Simonious> I wouldn't have made it this far if I hadn't
[20:44:21] <Tom_itx> and ask questions as they arise
[20:50:05] <jdh> http://www.hsmworks.com/hsmxpress/
[20:53:50] <Simonious> jdh: know anything about it?
[20:53:58] <jdh> nope
[20:54:15] * Simonious ponders
[20:54:19] <Tom_itx> there are a couple that say they're free
[20:54:24] <jdh> that one is free
[20:54:39] <jdh> there are some youtube videos for it.
[20:54:45] <Simonious> but.. it's ONLY for solidworks
[20:54:50] <Simonious> which isn't the end of the world, but is a bit sad
[20:55:52] <Simonious> also wth, it's made by autodesk
[20:56:00] <furrywolf> I still haven't found any working open-source cad or cam software.
[20:56:16] <jdh> furrywolf: vi
[20:57:00] <furrywolf> jdh: moded editors only marginally count as working. :)
[20:57:11] <Simonious> furrywolf: G-simple?
[20:57:31] <jdh> yeah, I'm really not much on vi*
[20:57:44] <jdh> I'm really an EDT fan
[20:57:46] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, you won't likely find any that's worth a crap
[20:57:50] <greg___> hsmxpress is good if you only need 2.5D
[20:58:04] <furrywolf> sadly, I do most of my editing in nano... it's not that nano is good, it's that everything else pisses me off more.
[20:58:04] <greg___> you have to pay for 3D
[20:58:05] <Simonious> greg___: what does that mean? I honestly don't know
[20:58:13] <greg___> it won't surface
[20:58:16] <Tom_itx> most of the free stuff won'd do surfaces
[20:58:25] <Simonious> greg___: bummer, that's specifically what I want
[20:58:25] <Tom_itx> 2d is relatively easy
[20:58:35] <Simonious> 2d I can do now
[20:58:37] <Simonious> I use cambam for that
[20:58:38] <greg___> what are you making>
[20:58:43] <Tom_itx> exactly.
[20:59:29] <greg___> I used meshcam years ago for artsy stuff. Back then it didn't really do machine parts well but i've heard it's improved.
[20:59:37] <Simonious> greg___: I'm 'learning' to make, my current learning project is a model I just made:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7eecu5lxizlaycm/damon%20name%20IV.STL?dl=0
[21:00:11] <greg___> then i bought Visual mill
[21:00:11] <furrywolf> Simonious: g-simple doesn't appear to be open-source.
[21:00:40] <furrywolf> Simonious: if you get really desparate, you can probably export it as a height map and use linuxcnc's image-to-gcode generator... but that's a crappy solution.
[21:01:04] <Simonious> furrywolf: Heeks is supposed to be open source..
[21:01:54] <furrywolf> isn't heeks windows? also, I haven't heard much good about it.
[21:02:35] <Simonious> pycam?
[21:03:03] <furrywolf> hrmm, apparantly it does have a linux-compilable version.
[21:03:08] <furrywolf> pycam doesn't work.
[21:03:12] <furrywolf> tried that already.
[21:03:24] <Simonious> damn
[21:03:26] <Simonious> openscam?
[21:03:32] <greg___> camabam should do that part
[21:04:10] <furrywolf> never heard of openscam. I've used openscad, and it's a wonderful idea, but I couldn't make it stop crashing, nor could the developer even after we consulted on it for a couple weeks. heh.
[21:04:11] <Simonious> greg___: great! gonna try to find some youtube vids that explain how
[21:04:29] <Simonious> furrywolf: huh, I've used it, but very little, wasn't crashy for me though
[21:04:34] <jdh> is it a 3d part?
[21:04:46] <Simonious> djh yes
[21:04:54] <greg___> there is also somethign called freemill by mecsoft who does visualmill. it was very basic, but I think it did 3D
[21:05:19] <greg___> The part is lettering on a 3D surface
[21:05:28] <furrywolf> Simonious: it has opengl issues, as well as numerical issues. having two objects exactly touch will reliably cause a crash, for example. for the opengl issues, simple things like switching workspaces while it's thinking will cause it to crash.
[21:05:28] <Simonious> aye
[21:05:41] * Simonious nods
[21:06:04] <furrywolf> it doesn't seem to properly keep track of what parts of opengl are current and which aren't, so if anything changes during rendering, it crashes.
[21:06:04] <furrywolf> like a window redraw in the middle of a render.
[21:06:26] <furrywolf> and thinking is something it spends a very long time doing, especially if you have objects near touching. heh.
[21:06:26] <PetefromTn_> CamBam should be able to do that but I have not done a lot of 3D work with it yet really. there are several decent tutorials on youtube about the 3d functions....
[21:06:47] * Simonious nods
[21:07:18] <Simonious> so.. is cambam generally a pretty reasonable cam solution? I'm not opposed to spending some money, but I want to be confident it's a good choice before I go that route.
[21:07:22] <furrywolf> gah, openscam's website sucks. does not bode well for software. lol
[21:07:36] <greg___> how much does cambam cost these days?
[21:07:41] <Simonious> I heard a recommendation for cut3d, is that a good choice?
[21:07:53] <Simonious> greg___: ~$150 iirc
[21:07:55] <PetefromTn_> In my experience it will do most things but it is nowhere near as capable as something like Mastercam
[21:08:07] <jdh> how much is mastercam?
[21:08:17] <furrywolf> ok, I seriously need to fucking install noscript. openscam's page is pissing me off.
[21:08:22] <PetefromTn_> it has a lot of decent add ons tho you can get from the forums website
[21:08:44] <PetefromTn_> Mastercam is VERY expensive and pretty much a commercial only option
[21:08:49] <greg___> real CAM starts at 1kUSD and goes up to 25k or so for full house 5 axis
[21:09:45] <Tom_itx> umm
[21:09:48] <PetefromTn_> For the price it is hard to beat CamBam but there is the Fusion360 online option which seems pretty capable.
[21:09:58] <Tom_itx> my bud paid 75k for a seat of catia
[21:09:59] <PetefromTn_> 5 axis is WAY more than that really
[21:10:38] <Simonious> greg___: honestly I've only got 3axis machines at the moment, I'll probably graduate to 4 at some point.. but really that's still 3 axis, the 3rd spins..
[21:10:40] <furrywolf> "Limitations ... No CAM facilities yet, e.g. 3D model to tool path conversion." ... wtf? it's a cam program that doesn't do cam? lol
[21:10:53] <PetefromTn_> most of the big names are now moving to a cloud based setup that will allow you to pay as you go for a more reasonable entry fee
[21:11:04] <Simonious> SO many options
[21:11:12] <greg___> 4 axis is where you see the big jump. that starts at about 4kUSD
[21:11:18] * Simonious nods
[21:11:28] <greg___> and even then you have to look closely at what you're getting.
[21:11:31] <Simonious> I probably don't need true 4 axis cam
[21:11:37] <greg___> some are junk.
[21:11:40] <Simonious> even when I move to a rotary axis at some point
[21:11:48] <PetefromTn_> Well I finished the Tig welding and engraving jobs I had to do today so that is good at least...
[21:12:05] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: no, they're moving to a model where they can make it sound cheap up front then charge you subscription fees forever.
[21:12:13] <Simonious> My Tig work is also done for the day. :P
[21:12:15] <greg___> right you can do most things with an index on the rotary
[21:12:22] * Simonious nods
[21:13:10] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf Still honestly it has gone from a mostly prohibitive scheme to something that at least the smaller pro shops can get in on without massive up front costs..
[21:13:44] <greg___> pete furry, the Emco is a live, ran power out to the garage and the house didn't burn down. plugged the rewired machine in and it didn't melt down. I had a minor issure getting it running but it works now.
[21:13:48] <furrywolf> no, just massive total costs. :P
[21:14:23] * furrywolf doesn't believe in subscription model software
[21:14:30] <greg___> so cam soft is going to be like 1kUSD per YEAR
[21:14:56] <greg___> I spoke with HSM a few months back
[21:15:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/
[21:15:09] <Simonious> furrywolf: it's not a bad way to go - someone else ALWAYs troubleshoots the software and everyone uses the exact SAME software. It's the ultimate in outsourced tech support.
[21:15:12] <greg___> CAD is doing the same
[21:15:48] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/products/ncl.html
[21:15:50] <Tom_itx> multi axis
[21:16:44] <furrywolf> "cloud" software is even worse... let's make our product annoyingly slow by needing to send everything over the network for no reason and/or running non-native interpreted code on the client end!
[21:16:46] <greg___> if you spend real moeny on CAM software, demo it and be sure you like it
[21:17:56] <furrywolf> and let's have downtime due to network issues where the entire shop stops running and everyone can sit on their thumbs!
[21:18:19] <Simonious> greg___: I agree, but I need to get a feel for what I want to demo before I even do that.. there are so many options.. I need to weed it down to just a couple :)
[21:18:52] <Simonious> I was thinking cambam was a good option, cut3d sounds good too. Mastercam sounds good, but I think we're moving into expensive stuff there.
[21:19:21] <Simonious> I saw some encouraging things about pycam, but.. someone here said it didn't work
[21:19:40] <furrywolf> someone I know said their mastercam was around $50K/year/seat for their 5-axis machine.
[21:19:46] <greg___> for hobby grade there is dolphin cam, which I think is Sprut? but there are also farily resonably priced versions fo SprutCAM.
[21:19:54] * Simonious chuckles
[21:20:19] <greg___> Furrywolf, wouldbe be surprised. 5-axis makes good money
[21:20:25] <greg___> wouldn't
[21:20:56] <Simonious> 5-axis is non-trivial
[21:21:01] <Tom_itx> most everything can be made with 3 axis
[21:21:01] <furrywolf> Simonious: some people have said it works. I tried it. One of their toolpath algorithms ran in a few minutes, but produced a broken toolpath. The other said it needed THREE DAYS to create a toolpath for their trivial demo object. And, for those three days, since it ignores the config options for how many threads to use, it spawns so many threads that the system is entirely unusable.
[21:21:21] <Tom_itx> 5 axis may make it more efficient
[21:21:22] <furrywolf> I killed it after about a half hour, because I wanted to use my computer.
[21:21:39] <Simonious> furrywolf: this is why you need a slave linux box in the corner to toss ugly jobs
[21:22:09] <Simonious> furrywolf: I've been known to reslice MANY objects at once with a script to try slightly different slicing settings on a bunch of parts.
[21:22:11] <greg___> I looked at several when i want to buy continuous 4 axis capable. I thought if i was going to buy real CAM I'd spend a few extra bucks and buy 4axis, but didn't end up buying anything because it was going to be 4-5kUSD.
[21:22:14] <furrywolf> Simonious: that's a waste of power, and a 3-day turnaround per prototype of a trivial object is not ok.
[21:22:21] <Simonious> furrywolf: true
[21:23:04] <furrywolf> When I mentioned my experience with pycam here, some people said that, if you do wait that absurd amount of time, it does generate a working toolpath.
[21:23:52] <Simonious> furrywolf: well I've got absurd amounts of computer power and a VM...
[21:23:53] <Tom_itx> greg___, i gave more than that over 20 yrs ago for a good 3 axis solution
[21:24:35] <furrywolf> Simonious: good for you. I don't have absurd abouts of computer power nor electrical power. nor any desire to wait three days between making chips!
[21:24:40] <furrywolf> s/abouts/amounts
[21:25:09] <greg___> i couldn't justify the cost for the amount of machining I do. i do more design work so have a seat os SW
[21:25:26] <Tom_itx> i wish i had a current SW version
[21:25:35] <Tom_itx> but what i have gets me by nowdays
[21:25:48] <greg___> I'm still on 2013
[21:25:56] <Tom_itx> used to do alot of aircraft parts
[21:26:18] <Tom_itx> so 3d is a requirement
[21:26:56] <furrywolf> I need to make a trivial part and still haven't found software to do it. heh.
[21:27:00] <Tom_itx> we had a guy back then that used acad with cam plugins
[21:27:11] <Tom_itx> he was good at it but it sure looked difficult
[21:27:18] <furrywolf> I need to cut five circles, five rectangles, and five letters out of a piece of aluminum sheet.
[21:27:24] <greg___> yeah, I learned SW98 at a small aero company
[21:27:45] <greg___> scroll saw
[21:28:13] <cradek> scissors?
[21:28:40] <furrywolf> freecad kept screwing up, pycam didn't work, kcad or kicad or something couldn't do anything, etc.
[21:29:00] <greg___> Oh, i saw a CNC bandsaw making furniture on how irt's made and was mesmerized, don't know why, but it looks cool.
[21:29:10] <furrywolf> I'll probably end up writing the g-code by hand, even though I really wanted to use it as a trivial exercise to get cad+cam set up.
[21:30:09] <greg___> aren't there simple dxf to gcode apps? i used one when i first built my machine
[21:30:14] <furrywolf> []()X []()Y []()Z []()A []()B. five cutouts for square plugs, five for round plugs, and five axis labels. this should not be challenging...
[21:31:13] <Tom_itx> you want to engrave the letters or cut them thru?
[21:31:14] <cradek> yeah I'd just build that out of truetype-tracer and hand editing, which is no fun, and not a learning experience, but it gets it cut
[21:31:46] <greg___> http://www.dakeng.com/ace.html
[21:31:48] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: cut half through. (1/16 depth)
[21:32:10] <furrywolf> probably using the same endmill used for cutting out the holes.
[21:32:14] <greg___> my mill was his turbocnc before i found EMC2
[21:32:28] <zeeshan> long live linuxcnc
[21:33:40] <furrywolf> then for the front panel, I'll probably just end up making that with a unibit. heh.
[21:33:49] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, i did that with my cadcam:
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/pendant2.jpg
[21:33:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NGhjaF1.jpg
[21:33:53] <zeeshan> todays action shot
[21:33:54] <zeeshan> :D
[21:34:19] * zeeshan likes that engraving
[21:34:35] <furrywolf> Tom_itx: and what is your cadcam?
[21:34:50] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[21:35:14] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: did you make your graphs line up yet?
[21:35:31] <Tom_itx> it's pretty dated now but it works good for me and the sherline
[21:35:53] <Tom_itx> it's got a lathe package as well
[21:36:25] <zeeshan> furrywolf: almost :-)
[21:36:29] <zeeshan> i know the problem
[21:36:39] <zeeshan> and im almost 99% positive its human error
[21:36:43] <zeeshan> will know later tonight
[21:36:49] <zeeshan> eatin now :P
[21:37:19] <zeeshan> i love the show cops
[21:37:24] <zeeshan> its so entertaining :D
[21:37:24] <furrywolf> looks epensive and windows.
[21:37:28] <furrywolf> expensive
[21:37:58] <greg___> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOcxwRUeh_4
[21:38:29] <greg___> looks like fun
[21:41:44] <furrywolf> greg_: as someone who has a sherline, I can tell you that's not "mini" :P
[21:45:21] <jfindley> greg_: That is awesome!
[21:46:01] <furrywolf> also, chatter!
[21:46:26] <greg_> if you can get it in the basement it's mini
[21:46:55] <greg_> proably as good as that pocket 5x machine
[21:49:51] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/KkcJUTj.jpg ;)
[21:51:19] <PetefromTn_> If I had one of those I would HAVE to machine a Death Star LOL
[21:52:21] <Simonious> cutting videos are a bit slow to watch so I: document.getElementsByTagName("video")[0].playbackRate = 5
[21:52:27] <Simonious> PetefromTn_: YES
[21:53:42] <Simonious> honestly that video is still watchable at 10x
[21:54:07] <PetefromTn_> Whever I see those tilting head machines I always think that a 4 plus 1 might be better for most things 5 axis..
[21:58:20] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP158y03VxQ Very nice clean up over here..
[22:01:33] <greg_> he did a good job, i followed his thread on PM
[22:01:49] <greg_> g'night gents
[22:02:49] <PetefromTn_> Gn8
[22:08:17] <Tom_itx> wore me out watching him
[22:08:33] <PetefromTn_> he did a nice job tho looks almost brand new
[22:08:44] <Tom_itx> looks like it
[22:09:02] <PetefromTn_> I can't imagine having a VMC without a full enclosure tho
[22:09:12] <Tom_itx> yeah that would suck
[22:10:08] <Tom_itx> especially if you plan to do flood coolant
[22:11:24] <furrywolf> the guy in the mini machine video greg pasted needs to work on his speeds and feeds.
[22:11:33] <furrywolf> that's painful to watch. and listen to.
[22:11:50] <Tom_itx> was a neat machine though
[22:17:06] <furrywolf> on that restoring video, that guy spent way too much work... I "restored" my shoptask by soaking it in wd40. a little rust never hurt anything. :P
[22:17:26] <furrywolf> and it doesn't need fresh paint if it has enough oil on it. :P
[22:17:56] <Tom_itx> to each his own
[22:18:05] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't go to that extreme either probably
[22:18:40] <archivist> silly limit to B rotation on that 5 axis
[22:22:10] <furrywolf> also, his shop is way, way too clean.
[22:24:56] <furrywolf> and he didn't even linuxcnc it! :P
[22:29:57] <PetefromTn_> I like to try to make my machines look clean and professional whever possible but I have not gone stupid freak crazy on the VMC. Just cleaned it thoroughly enough to get it working and retrofit it.
[22:30:23] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: you mean you didn't strip every single bit of paint, including the hidden insides of covers? :)
[22:30:47] <PetefromTn_> My RF45 CNC machine I really spent some time on and even refinished the entire machine in a different color. As well as converting it to CNC and creating a custom Belt driven spindle, one of the first ever on an RF45
[22:31:05] <PetefromTn_> Honestly my machine did not require repainting anywhere.
[22:31:17] <PetefromTn_> It was just really dirty and covered in gunky residue
[22:31:25] <PetefromTn_> I spent a LOT of time just cleaning the damn thing
[22:31:38] <PetefromTn_> it actually looks pretty decent considering how old it is.
[22:31:46] <furrywolf> I care a lot more about functionality than looks... if it works, no reason to spend time working on it.
[22:31:53] <PetefromTn_> there are no major areas where it needs painting at all
[22:32:03] <archivist> there was no cleaning without the paint coming off my hobbing machine
[22:32:08] <PetefromTn_> Oh it works..now...at least everything but the toolchanger
[22:32:15] <furrywolf> I already have too many projects and not enough time... inventing new projects won't help that!
[22:33:07] <PetefromTn_> Well on a retrofit it does make things nicer to really clean it up because it makes mounting new parts easier when there is not tons of dried coolant and chips underneath ;)
[22:34:27] <archivist> I had about 3/4" of crap inside the coolant box, bottom layer of main casting
[22:34:55] <archivist> internal paint was ok ish and got left
[22:34:57] <PetefromTn_> it seemed like UNDERNEATH the table on my machine was the worst hardest part to clean
[22:35:11] <PetefromTn_> it had like glued on coolant and chips that was a real bitch to remove
[22:35:58] <furrywolf> yeah, before putting the new engine in my subaru, I took it on a trailer to the car wash and blasted all the old oil and grime off the frame...
[22:35:59] <PetefromTn_> I will say that the greased lightning in the dollar store bottles comes in REAL handy for this and cut thru even the thickest ooziest gunk pretty easily. Just don't smell it too much it is powerful stuff
[22:37:48] <PetefromTn_> I'll tell you what that sheet plate they gave me to make all those engraved pieces on was like trying to machine a gummy worm heh
[22:37:53] <archivist> wire brush, spread it around a bit
[22:39:18] <archivist> some of it was invisible until painted
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber+colman
[22:43:18] <PetefromTn_> hey that looks pretty nice man...
[22:48:22] <archivist> the original black crackle finish was about the worst paint I have ever seen on a machine
[22:50:23] <PetefromTn_> heh I am sure
[22:51:14] <archivist> not only did it retain the crud, it was far too easy to wire brush off
[22:52:20] <PetefromTn_> I have been spraying my new CNC lathe project and it is kind of a bitch to mask off everything. After watching that guy basically roll on and brush on that Fadal I think I have found how to finish the rest of the tough parts now HEH
[22:54:23] <archivist> I am using discount store metal paint brushed on
[22:55:55] <Valen> I liked it, I'd so do that lol
[22:56:19] <Valen> I love things being all clean and shiny
[22:56:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah a Fadal is a sweet little machine much like my Cincinatti in a lot of ways.
[22:58:28] <archivist> the strip, clean and paint means you learn the guts of a machine too
[22:59:15] <PetefromTn_> there really is not that much to a VMC when it comes down to it... they are pretty simple machines
[22:59:20] <archivist> and find the seized parts before you break something
[23:09:28] <Valen> he did clear out all the grease lines too, there's a thread out there about a guy who thought it was all working but his really wasnt
[23:10:10] <Valen> he was not a happy camper
[23:11:29] <Valen> zeeshan sort out your encoder problem?
[23:11:49] <zeeshan> nope
[23:11:53] <zeeshan> waiting for a scope
[23:12:01] <zeeshan> friend is gonna let me borrow the analog tommo
[23:12:21] <Valen> got storage?
[23:12:29] <Valen> as in its a storage scope of some kind?
[23:18:37] <furrywolf> I should fix my store 'scope one of these days... but I have a perfectly working digital one. heh.
[23:18:39] <furrywolf> storage
[23:19:56] <furrywolf> https://richardsears.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/tektronix-214-miniature-storage-oscilloscope/ I have one of those... it's cute... unfortunately it let the magic smoke out, then blew the battery fuse.
[23:20:32] <furrywolf> it's very hard to work on, since it can't operate disassembled.
[23:23:09] <furrywolf> it's been sitting on top of one of my living room speakers for a few years now, in about twenty pieces.
[23:24:31] <furrywolf> and it's a pain in the ass to put together... contacts from the square cage of boards all nest, at once...
[23:24:49] <zeeshan> =
[23:24:51] <zeeshan> =]]
[23:25:00] <Valen> that sounds unfortunate
[23:25:24] <furrywolf> and it's double-sided through-hole, a rarity. lol
[23:25:57] <furrywolf> they crammed a complete analog 'scope into a TINY box.
[23:26:34] <furrywolf> at least it's not cordwood!
[23:28:50] <furrywolf> (double-sided, as in, there's components on both sides of the pcb, through-hole from both sides, and solder pads on both sides of the pcb... not just that there's copper on both sides of the pcb)
[23:29:18] <Simonious> been studying cambam. Generated some toolpaths, they are wildly wrong, but I think I'll be able to get what I need out of it ... tomorrow. It's late now.
[23:32:15] <PetefromTn_> why are they wildly wrong?
[23:32:41] * Simonious chuckles, because xyz are apparently oriented differently in solidworks
[23:33:16] <furrywolf> lol
[23:33:39] <PetefromTn_> ?
[23:33:55] <PetefromTn_> You put XYZ wherever you want it really
[23:34:23] <Simonious> PetefromTn_: it generated tool paths from the side rather than the top face. Well I'm a cambam (and solidworks) novice and it defaulted off 90 degrees from the solidworks xyz
[23:34:52] <Simonious> I'm sure it'll be easy to fix, it's just getting late :)
[23:34:58] <PetefromTn_> aah
[23:35:07] <Simonious> My plan is to hit it with three tools, one for ROUGH out, one for refining and one for detail
[23:35:23] <Simonious> not sure how I'm going to keep the second two from doing EVERYTHING over again, but I know it's doable
[23:35:58] * Simonious wanders off to hit the shower, then a netflix perhaps, then bed.
[23:36:00] <Simonious> thanks guys
[23:36:02] <Simonious> o/
[23:36:12] <zeeshan> furrywolf:
http://i.imgur.com/uMoCajW.png
[23:36:15] <zeeshan> er
[23:36:20] <zeeshan> ignore that
[23:37:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/VpYNBYT.png
[23:37:09] <zeeshan> here we go
[23:37:16] <zeeshan> finally a more reasonable result
[23:37:25] <zeeshan> i figured out it was 2 things
[23:37:47] <zeeshan> 1. machine 1's load cell is way too oversized . it is a 10000N load cell but loads only hit a peak of 25N.
[23:38:09] <zeeshan> 2. I forgot to convert lb to newtons
[23:38:10] <zeeshan> :)
[23:38:39] <furrywolf> that would explain what it sure looked to me like just a scaling error. :P
[23:39:42] <zeeshan> yea definitely some scaling error
[23:39:45] <zeeshan> but the Green one you can tell
[23:39:49] <zeeshan> is messed up still
[23:40:02] <zeeshan> there is still a good 50% error
[23:40:29] <furrywolf> so you're finding machine1 and machine2 differ when testing the same material in the same axis?
[23:40:34] <zeeshan> yea
[23:40:36] <zeeshan> its a load cell issue
[23:41:00] <zeeshan> machine 1 is 10000N load cell, so if the load measured is 25N, thats in the error band of the load cell
[23:41:10] <furrywolf> lol
[23:41:21] <zeeshan> usually lab grade load cells are only reliable betwen 1% of their maximum value
[23:41:29] <zeeshan> machine 2 is 500N load cell
[23:41:43] <furrywolf> dunno, the curve looks really nice to me... even if it's not accurate, it is precise...
[23:41:55] <zeeshan> look at the red curve
[23:42:07] <zeeshan> notice how it curves
[23:42:10] <zeeshan> but the green one curves twice
[23:42:12] <zeeshan> thats completely wrong
[23:42:36] <furrywolf> so just use machine2 for all your tests?
[23:42:45] <zeeshan> can't
[23:42:52] <furrywolf> or... build your own test machine? :P
[23:42:52] <zeeshan> luckily i dont have to do much uniaxial tests
[23:43:07] <zeeshan> the problem is machine 2 is in a completely differrent department (chem eng)
[23:43:12] <zeeshan> and they dont have optical strain measurement
[23:43:27] <zeeshan> im just gonna stick to my apparatus
[23:43:33] <zeeshan> this proves its working correctly
[23:43:43] <zeeshan> just gonna repeat 2 more tests on machine 2
[23:44:02] <furrywolf> use the air control system you already have, and just make two clamps, one fixed, one on an random air cylinder connected to your pressure system... and measure displacement vs pressure?
[23:44:39] <zeeshan> my apparatus has an inherent flaw in it
[23:44:46] <zeeshan> you can't accurately control "strain rate"
[23:44:51] <zeeshan> you can accurately control pressure
[23:45:03] <zeeshan> proper tensile test machines you can control strain rate
[23:45:18] <furrywolf> strain rate being the rate of movement rather than the rate of force?
[23:45:29] <zeeshan> if you plot strain vs time
[23:45:36] <zeeshan> its the slope of the curve
[23:45:48] <zeeshan> rate of change of strain
[23:45:51] <furrywolf> as long as you can measure the displacement in real-time, you just need another PID loop.
[23:46:01] <zeeshan> yea that's the hard part :-)
[23:46:14] <zeeshan> i could prolly use some sort of laser measurement system
[23:46:23] <furrywolf> that varries your pressure as needed to maintain a constant change rate in the strain.
[23:46:29] <furrywolf> you have an accurate imaging system. :P
[23:46:38] <zeeshan> imaging system isn't realtime
[23:46:42] <zeeshan> it collects images real time
[23:46:45] <zeeshan> but doesn't process em real time
[23:46:59] <furrywolf> bah. that should be fixable with enough computing hardware.
[23:47:27] <furrywolf> all my stereo correlation projects took several minutes per image set, but they were on a p3... :P
[23:47:30] <zeeshan> i dont think i have a lot of time left to improve it
[23:47:35] <zeeshan> im gonna do it the hack way
[23:47:39] <zeeshan> i have strain vs time right
[23:47:43] <zeeshan> and i also have pressure vs time.
[23:47:51] <zeeshan> im gonna ramp down the pressure
[23:48:09] <zeeshan> to maintain the correct strain rate
[23:48:59] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/CM4DJDy.png
[23:49:02] <zeeshan> note the green line
[23:49:06] <furrywolf> (random note: stereo correlation of arbritary real-world image pairs is HARD!)
[23:49:09] <zeeshan> thats using a standard uniaxial tensile tester
[23:49:30] <zeeshan> "biaxial" is my apparatus
[23:49:38] <zeeshan> notice how it's linear in the beginning
[23:49:39] <zeeshan> but bam
[23:49:43] <zeeshan> it goes poop after
[23:50:10] <furrywolf> I assume the kink towards the end of the double layer test was one layer failing?
[23:50:25] <zeeshan> no
[23:50:33] <zeeshan> error in radius
[23:50:39] <zeeshan> wait
[23:50:42] <zeeshan> nm
[23:50:52] <zeeshan> thats the double layer, yea i think that was either the layer failing
[23:50:55] <zeeshan> or adhesive issue
[23:51:30] <zeeshan> since i know exactly what the strain was at the red blue black dots
[23:51:36] <furrywolf> plotting strain vs time isn't useful if you're applying force in different ways on different machines
[23:52:03] <zeeshan> strain vs time is extremely important
[23:52:09] <zeeshan> the faster your strain polymers
[23:52:13] <zeeshan> the different they react
[23:52:26] <zeeshan> and different machines is meaningless at the end of the day
[23:52:31] <furrywolf> yes, it is... but you can't put data from two machines using completely different testing methods on that same graph.
[23:52:34] <zeeshan> you compare things like "equivalent strain" and equivalent stress
[23:52:44] <zeeshan> it doesn't matter what the load is
[23:52:48] <furrywolf> for example, one machine could apply stress a lot slower than the other. :P
[23:53:06] <zeeshan> that's why you compare strain rate
[23:53:12] <zeeshan> to see if they were applying it linearly
[23:53:15] <zeeshan> and at the same rate
[23:53:25] <zeeshan> if that is constant between the two machines, you have the same conditions
[23:53:33] <zeeshan> but ofcourse one machine can be pulling the sample in 2 directions
[23:53:40] <zeeshan> and one can be pulling it in one direction
[23:53:50] <zeeshan> which is where "equivalent" strain comes into play
[23:54:13] <zeeshan> you basically transform the strain into a principal state that can be compared
