#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-20

[00:02:16] <furrywolf> bbl
[00:52:18] <XXCoder> wow
[00:52:19] <XXCoder> http://makezine.com/2015/07/17/see-made-3d-cube-illusion-wooden-bowl/
[05:45:53] <Deejay> moin
[08:10:16] <SolarNRG> any of you guys know anything about stainless cone rolling?
[08:11:06] <SolarNRG> basically its 4mm 306l stainless IIRC, the cone has to be 60mm at the top, 300mm at the bottom diameters and it has to be 250mm high
[08:11:15] <SolarNRG> any ideas how I draw that onto the sheet?
[08:11:19] <SolarNRG> the sheet stainless
[08:11:42] <SolarNRG> I'm guessing a bit of old 2*pi*r is required here
[08:11:50] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
[08:12:26] <SpeedEvil> Neglecting stuff, you have a 180mm (ish) top, 1m bottom, and 250mm between top and bottom
[08:13:54] <SolarNRG> yeah the bottom circumference is pretty much gonna be a meter
[08:13:56] <SpeedEvil> Do you mean 250mm slant-height, or height
[08:14:11] <SolarNRG> y axis height not slant heigh
[08:14:12] <SolarNRG> t
[08:14:41] <SpeedEvil> Think about the cone. What do you know about the cone. What does that imply when you cut a slot in it and flatten it out
[08:15:09] <SpeedEvil> Also - 4mm stainless ~300mm long is a very non-trivial bend
[08:15:15] <SpeedEvil> what are you going to be using
[08:16:11] <SolarNRG> I'm just cutting it with the grinder I'm taking it somewhere to get bent
[08:16:21] <SolarNRG> hopefully they won't tell me to get bent
[08:16:24] <SolarNRG> lol
[08:16:41] <SpeedEvil> Why 4mm
[08:16:43] <SolarNRG> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_MgYa0Mjc
[08:17:04] <SolarNRG> it seems I gotta make the circles twice as big radii with this method
[08:17:13] <SolarNRG> cos ur only doing semicircles
[08:18:31] <SolarNRG> basically I gotta draw from one edge a 600mm circle that only covers a semicircle and a 120mm circle, but how far apart are the two circles?
[08:19:06] <SpeedEvil> Why 4mm? That's a very, very,very thick cone and hard to roll
[08:19:33] <SolarNRG> becuase of hot shit and piss being boiled by a 4m parabolic reflector dish that's why
[08:19:55] <SolarNRG> and I'm a crap welder so I need thick metal cos I can't afford a mig
[08:20:12] <SpeedEvil> Doing it wrong.
[08:20:25] <SpeedEvil> There is no reason to use thicker than 1mm, reinforced appropriately
[08:20:25] <SolarNRG> enlighten me oh wealthy and wise one
[08:20:35] <SolarNRG> if I weld 1mm I BURN HOLES IN IT
[08:20:35] <SpeedEvil> use a copper backing plate while welding
[08:20:53] <SolarNRG> huh?
[08:20:56] <SolarNRG> Like a bus bar
[08:21:00] <SpeedEvil> yes
[08:21:01] <SolarNRG> underneath the stainless?
[08:21:23] <SpeedEvil> Large aluminium also works
[08:21:30] <SpeedEvil> Though not as well
[08:21:35] <SolarNRG> umm aluminium and steel makes thermite right
[08:21:36] <SolarNRG> ?
[08:21:45] <SpeedEvil> No.
[08:21:53] <SpeedEvil> Aluminium and iron oxide
[08:21:56] <SpeedEvil> finely divided
[08:22:26] <SolarNRG> actually this is stainless so it doesn't oxidize very well
[08:22:43] <SolarNRG> although when it does it makes a pale yellowy oxide, not a red rusty oxide, why's that?
[08:23:00] <SolarNRG> cos I pick up a lot of scrap stainless cheap from the scrappy, I love welding stainless
[08:24:23] <archivist> SolarNRG, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/BK/BK662/
[08:25:12] <archivist> geometry of sheet metal work
[08:25:39] <SolarNRG> archivist, sweet
[08:26:29] <archivist> then you can make http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=tinware
[08:33:26] <_methods> did you make those archivist
[08:33:50] <_methods> people are losing the skills to make that stuff anymore
[08:35:23] <CaptHindsight> ah, you just get plastic ones at wallyworld now
[08:35:51] <SolarNRG> 277.3mm worked it out thankx guys
[08:36:06] <SolarNRG> that's the sloping length of the cone I need to make
[08:36:27] <SolarNRG> _methods, yeah I used to know all this stuff 10 years ago, now I've forgotten high school trig
[08:36:32] <SolarNRG> my brain's turned to mush
[08:38:03] <archivist> _methods, yes, its is just biscuit tin, a soldering iron and a pair of scissors and some bending
[08:38:11] <CaptHindsight> that's why they used to have trig tables and now you can look them up or use a calculator
[08:38:18] <_methods> well sheet metal patter making is an art that's not taught much anymore around here
[08:38:23] <CaptHindsight> no real reason to memorize them
[08:38:35] <_methods> s/patter/pattern
[08:38:50] <archivist> plenty of old books around to get sheetmetal data from
[08:38:56] <_methods> pretty hard to find a sheet metal school
[08:39:01] <_methods> yeah the old books are incredible
[08:39:09] <_methods> i use them extensively
[08:39:16] <_methods> solidworks can't figure everything out
[08:39:22] <archivist> I never went to any school, just collect books :)
[08:39:47] <_methods> it sure is easier to lay out a pattern in autocad than it is doing it by hand though lol
[08:39:49] <archivist> any sheetmetal school I should say
[08:40:04] <_methods> well that's impressive if you just made those on your own
[08:40:25] <archivist> my patterns are in the paint on a pit of tin
[08:40:36] <archivist> bit
[08:40:55] <_methods> heh
[08:41:13] <_methods> they used to call sheet metal workers tin knockers here
[08:41:29] <archivist> the watering can spout is fun, turn a taper, bend around, then roll with a ball bearing
[08:41:58] <_methods> now with cnc press brakes these guys really don't have a clue
[08:42:09] <archivist> the watering can top is a press tool, turned and uses a ball bearing as the die
[08:42:11] <_methods> they just load a program and grab a part from a pile
[08:43:14] <archivist> that is the press and tool http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_11_Smart_Brown_Press_repaired/IMG_1672.JPG
[08:43:23] <SolarNRG> archivist for a man who didn't go to school u sure are smart
[08:43:47] <_methods> ah nice little press
[08:43:47] <archivist> I meant sheet metal school
[08:43:51] <_methods> i'd love to have one of those
[08:44:20] <SolarNRG> i think health and safety would shut the place down in an instant once a student sliced his finger open on some sheet ally
[08:44:42] <archivist> was making tooling yesterday for the probe spring
[08:44:49] <_methods> i dont' think there are many sheet metal schools left in the US
[08:45:26] <_methods> i'm pretty sure i'm one of like 3 people in my whole town that know how to setup and run a turret punch
[08:45:54] <archivist> most skills can be reverse engineered and relearned
[08:46:03] <SolarNRG> what is a turret punch?
[08:46:19] <_methods> see
[08:46:27] <_methods> most people don't even know what one is lol
[08:46:36] <SolarNRG> lmgt
[08:46:46] <archivist> loads of different press types
[08:46:58] <archivist> I want a fly press too
[08:47:04] <_methods> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turret_punch
[08:47:33] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzDSZcPvl_E
[08:47:36] <archivist> noisy buggers they are
[08:47:46] <_methods> video of trupunch 5000 running
[08:49:12] <archivist> good job I moved the speakers to another pc
[08:49:19] <_methods> heheh
[08:49:28] <_methods> yeah they aren't quiet
[08:49:48] <archivist> bit like steam hammers
[08:50:21] <_methods> i love them...........when they're working
[08:50:37] <_methods> incredibly easy to get wrong
[08:51:02] <_methods> lots of variables
[08:51:02] <FinboySlick> Video for the 2020 is more impressive.
[08:51:16] <_methods> is it?
[08:51:32] <FinboySlick> I thought so anyway.
[08:51:33] <_methods> i just grabbed teh first punch link i saw
[08:51:43] <_methods> that's not an actual turret punch though
[08:51:53] <_methods> since trumpf puts their tools on a linear rail
[08:52:01] <SolarNRG> its like a cnc machine that bangs holes in sheet metal, right?
[08:52:13] <archivist> yes
[08:52:31] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOF7fi4JhDc
[08:52:38] <SolarNRG> probably less complex than a cnc mill
[08:52:40] <_methods> that is an actual turret punch
[08:52:42] <archivist> or punches louvres
[08:52:48] <FinboySlick> SolarNRG: These also bend and shape small portions of th e sheet (up to about an inch high).
[08:53:05] <SolarNRG> inch thick stainless!?
[08:53:14] <SolarNRG> that would take me all day jsut to cut with the grinder
[08:53:16] <_methods> no
[08:53:16] <FinboySlick> SolarNRG: no, 1 inch thick features.
[08:53:21] <FinboySlick> I mean 1 inch high.
[08:53:27] <_methods> small bends
[08:53:37] <_methods> or raised features
[08:54:01] <SolarNRG> looks wicked for making stylish metal furniture, ipad casings etc
[08:54:22] <_methods> they are typically used for hole intensive chassis work
[08:54:30] <SolarNRG> also looks like the sort of tool AK47 receivers are made in bulk
[08:54:40] <FinboySlick> Apple uses fancier methods. Your typical beige-box PC or Dell will be made on this though.
[08:54:42] <_methods> since they can outperform lasers on parts with lots of holes
[08:54:59] <_methods> for truly high production stamping presses are used
[08:55:13] <SolarNRG> less coolant required for sure
[08:55:27] <CaptHindsight> there was a shop a few doors down with an AMADA, too little business to keep it busy
[08:55:30] <archivist> I have seen insane speeds on a stamping press at a show
[08:55:31] <SolarNRG> instead of gneeewam gneewasmm its just bang, hole's done
[08:55:48] <FinboySlick> Or for even higher production, you can use 6 chinese men in a press: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF865wbEeyI
[08:55:50] <_methods> yeah turret punches need production higher than a laser but less than stamping
[08:55:54] <CaptHindsight> they would even compete with China on price
[08:55:57] <_methods> it's a real fine line
[08:56:15] <_methods> that's why turret punches are so hard to find operators/setup people for anymore
[08:56:16] <archivist> stamping presses often have multiple dies in series and are fed strip metal
[08:56:26] <CaptHindsight> we could get parts overnight
[08:56:46] <_methods> CaptHindsight: yeah it can still be done
[08:56:50] <_methods> but it's not easy
[08:57:05] <CaptHindsight> I could use one
[08:57:25] <_methods> i love turret punches
[08:57:34] <archivist> I have a sheet metal company only 3 miles away with a few trumpfs and lasers
[08:57:53] <_methods> yeah we have a trumpf laser here
[08:58:08] <_methods> komatsu plasma
[08:58:12] <_methods> and flow waterjet
[08:59:19] <_methods> lets us cut a large range of materials and thicknesses and prices
[08:59:38] <_methods> but no turret punch :(
[08:59:45] <archivist> I did wonder at production of the watering cans for these "collectors" of miniatures
[08:59:59] <_methods> but honestly we don't get the production work to "feed" a press
[09:00:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amada-EM-2510-NT-22-ton-CNC-Turret-Punch-/161749036000 $167,500, wonder if they would take $167K even?
[09:00:18] <_methods> i think you'd go crazy making those miniature water cans alld ay
[09:00:25] <archivist> me too
[09:00:25] <_methods> lol
[09:00:59] <_methods> honestly the only punch i'd buy is a trumpf
[09:01:11] <_methods> that linear tooling real is awesome
[09:01:13] <archivist> I bet it was $168,000 new
[09:01:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trumpf-TC180-20-Ton-Turret-Punch-16-Station-/231618675115
[09:01:37] <_methods> woah
[09:01:45] <_methods> that's an old trumatic
[09:01:50] <archivist> cheap enough
[09:02:08] <archivist> retrofit linuxcnc, profit
[09:03:17] <archivist> heh "Has been rewired with updated controls at least once." meaning and now its fsckd again
[09:07:38] <FinboySlick> archivist: I have a feeling it wouldn't be trivial to bring home though.
[09:09:31] <SolarNRG> my compass is tiny, how do I make big circles like 300mm radius?
[09:11:33] <FinboySlick> Piece of wire and two pins?
[09:11:57] <_methods> stick
[09:12:12] <_methods> with 2 pts lol
[09:12:18] <FinboySlick> Yeah, stick with two nails.
[09:18:01] <archivist> rotary table and a pen in the chuck
[09:18:21] <archivist> FinboySlick, minor detail, hire a truck
[09:20:07] <archivist> see also beam compass
[09:22:37] <archivist> also known as trammels
[09:32:29] <archivist> ebay search for trammel points gets you the bits you add to a stick/bar
[09:57:33] <SolarNRG> dudes, if I cut the sheet metal like this will the bottom be perfectly circular? http://i.imgur.com/bQZ9mr4.png
[09:59:00] <_methods> i don't understand that question
[09:59:08] <SolarNRG> u see the image right?
[09:59:12] <_methods> yeah
[09:59:19] <SolarNRG> I got a sheet of metal scratched out like that
[09:59:25] <_methods> ok
[09:59:46] <SolarNRG> when I get it bent will the bottom be flat?
[09:59:54] <SolarNRG> or will it be lopsided?
[10:00:17] <_methods> well how did you lay that pattern out?
[10:00:18] <skroon> hi all
[10:00:42] <_methods> if you layed it out correctly it will be "flat"
[10:00:48] <SolarNRG> ok
[10:00:54] <skroon> i'm cnc'ing plastic (HIPS) with a 2 flute end mill... but plastic metls around my bit... i'm wondering how to prevent it... lower RPM?
[10:00:56] <_methods> if by flat you mean will the bottom of teh cone be planar
[10:01:00] <skroon> or high RPM?
[10:01:04] <_methods> higher
[10:01:12] <_methods> plastics require high feed and speed
[10:01:33] <_methods> i'd look for feeds and speeds for hips
[10:01:35] <SolarNRG> high impact polystyrene?
[10:02:03] <SolarNRG> ill tell u now if you cut that too fast that polystyrene gives off TOXIC GAS BE WARNED
[10:02:20] <skroon> indeed high impact polystyrene
[10:02:31] <skroon> SolarNRG: ow really? indeed it smells funny
[10:02:47] <SolarNRG> skroon, yeah don't breathe that shit, it's like level 4 toxic
[10:03:07] <SolarNRG> they add that shit to petrol to make napalm
[10:03:26] <SolarNRG> excuse my french
[10:03:47] <SolarNRG> it can easily be dissolved using toluene!
[10:04:03] <SolarNRG> and it goes SCREEETCH if you wipe it on glass
[10:06:19] <SolarNRG> I highly advise you to invest in an uber duct fan if you're milling bad shit like that, I knew a plastic warehouse where loads of people died in Glasgow they were storing all sorts from polyproylene, polycarbonate, polystyrene and the firefighter's respirators didn't do shit the fire killed more from the burning plastic fumes than the fire did
[10:07:32] <SolarNRG> you REALLY REALLY REALLY do not want to burn it, so I advise you to go slow and mill at a slower rate as milling causes heat that can reach the autoignition temperature of polystyrene which I THINK is 240 degrees c
[10:08:52] <_methods> interesting
[10:09:03] <_methods> i've never actually made anything from it
[10:09:29] <SolarNRG> used a lot in drones
[10:09:36] <SolarNRG> very lightweight
[10:11:23] <SolarNRG> I like my metals I do, at least when a lot of those burn they aren't toxic, watch out for galvanized tho, that zinc is nasty
[10:12:11] <_methods> auto ignition for hips is 450c
[10:12:26] <_methods> and i'm not finding any data about it being dangerous like you've said
[10:12:50] <SolarNRG> thanks for confirming that _methods wiki only gave the melting point and I've worked with plastics that ignite well before their melting points so I often deal with melting them in a vacuum for various reasons
[10:13:28] <SolarNRG> _methods, https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071103193123AAm2z1A
[10:14:06] <_methods> yahoo questions isn't really something i use to source material data lol
[10:14:25] <_methods> or any data
[10:14:53] <SolarNRG> I'm reading it's msds and I actually see 440 degrees c autoignition temp 10 degrees lower than u said
[10:14:56] <_methods> except for like maybe is teh color purple my favorite color cardigan
[10:15:13] <_methods> there you go msds is credible
[10:15:37] <_methods> i got 450c from plastics intl page
[10:16:01] <SolarNRG> b4 u work with a new material, ALWAYS read the MSDS, that titanium hammer factory learned that the hard way, it caught fire then the firefighters poured water on it, next thing it was raining hot white metal that burned through everything
[10:16:50] <SolarNRG> minor discrepency, anyway, key here is mill SLOW
[10:17:41] <SolarNRG> another question for the dude I should have is what sort of coolant should he be using as toluene dissolves the stuff?
[10:18:04] <SolarNRG> hmm, not as bad as I thought when burning, polycarb is the real nasty one to burn, releases phosgene gas
[10:18:28] <SolarNRG> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhqMvsSdo3A
[10:18:33] <SolarNRG> ignites well easy
[10:18:40] <SolarNRG> defo a fire hazard
[10:19:23] <_methods> skroon: i think lots of sign shops use that stuff to make signs for store fronts and stuff
[10:19:44] <_methods> you might be able to talk to them about speeds and feeds they use to get acceptable cuts
[10:19:58] <SolarNRG> yeah u'll be fine, jsut mill slow, wear a gas mask if ur a pussy don't smoke near it u'r alright
[10:20:31] <SolarNRG> can u laser cut polystyrene?
[10:21:43] <SolarNRG> defo waterjet
[10:23:42] <SolarNRG> anyways it's cooled down now so I'm off 2 cut a cone, hope my reading was useful to u, remember BE SAFE
[10:40:19] <Loetmichel> solar: you can
[10:40:27] <Loetmichel> ah, already gone
[11:05:30] <monttyle> http://burningsmell.org/images/v-actuator2.jpg Getting there...
[11:12:19] <_methods> wtf is that
[11:12:58] <monttyle> Trying to build an X/Y actuator with two motors on one rail.
[11:13:23] <_methods> what advantage does that design provide?
[11:15:22] <monttyle> Compact and mechanically simple.
[11:15:52] <_methods> interesting
[11:16:53] <monttyle> The radial play in the pillow blocks is giving it trouble though. I think I'll have to double up at least one of them.
[11:16:59] <_methods> i bet
[11:17:13] <_methods> looks like a kinematic nightmare
[11:17:16] <SpeedEvil> That seems quite flexible
[11:17:32] <_methods> if the angle is off on the v part on either bearing it will throw everything out
[11:18:34] <monttyle> Yeah, I quickly figured out the triangle end had to be EXTREMELY rigid.
[11:18:39] <_methods> yeah
[11:19:45] <monttyle> control-wise it's surprisingly simple though, linear in all directions. Turning the threaded rod and holding one puck still moves X. Turning one motor forward and the other back moves Y.
[11:22:17] <SpeedEvil> how ar eyou holding still
[11:22:26] <SpeedEvil> you have two motors?
[11:23:47] <monttyle> Yes, one's a non-captive motor.
[11:24:40] <monttyle> Kind of 'hollow', the threaded rod winds straight through it
[11:25:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:25:54] <archivist> is this for 3d printer
[11:27:16] <monttyle> Intended for CNC.
[11:27:32] <archivist> machining?
[11:27:46] <SpeedEvil> As long as it's nothing toughened you'll be fine.
[11:27:57] <SpeedEvil> Like, for example, particularly dense expanded polystyrene
[11:28:18] <SpeedEvil> Or hardened merringue
[11:28:32] <SpeedEvil> Is that spelled correctly?
[11:28:42] <archivist> hardly up to the task as regards rigidity for anything much harder than marshmallow
[11:29:32] <monttyle> If you think that's bad, you should have seen my last design.
[11:29:34] * archivist dreams of lemon meringue pie
[11:29:38] <SpeedEvil> Though it does depend on the tooling - what you need to push a 1mm dremel abrasive bit through work at 35000RPM
[11:29:40] <monttyle> http://burningsmell.org/images/crazycnc5.jpg
[11:30:44] <cradek> that looks like it would have a very tiny working area, maybe 1" square?
[11:30:59] <cradek> how do you add a Z?
[11:31:02] <monttyle> Incorrect, 1" equilateral triangle
[11:31:18] <monttyle> There would be a milling head above.
[11:31:42] <monttyle> But yeah -- increasing axis range is why I moved from rotating to sliding joints. Also strength.
[11:31:43] <cradek> well it's not really a triangle either, is it?
[11:32:04] <monttyle> It'd be a warped square root shape of a triangle.
[11:33:14] <archivist> stiffness of those bars against bending moments from cutting forces is rather low for a cnc
[11:35:06] <monttyle> My next attempt will have the bars all together on the bottom.
[11:35:33] <monttyle> And maybe some support underneath
[11:36:20] <monttyle> If I can get it working well enough I might redesign it all with extrusion.
[11:40:01] <archivist> my failure of the day is my press tool, it split the shim stock, not ductile enough
[11:59:58] <_methods> ooops
[12:00:51] <archivist> might need to anneal the shim before or during
[12:00:58] <archivist> or rethink
[12:01:17] <_methods> did you acct for material stretch
[12:02:00] <_methods> what material?
[12:02:18] <archivist> I was expecting some stretch, but this is a wing it, hand turned no calcs experiment
[12:02:21] <_methods> and did you lube the forming tool/material?
[12:02:29] <archivist> no lube
[12:02:34] <_methods> sometimes that will help
[12:02:44] <_methods> keep the material from tearing
[12:02:56] <_methods> lets it "slide" some in the die/punch
[12:03:21] <zeeshan> what shape were you forming :D
[12:03:44] <zeeshan> i need to clean my Y axis scale
[12:03:51] <zeeshan> had a massive failure yesterday
[12:04:02] <archivist> was 2 thou usafoil
[12:04:07] <zeeshan> i was machining my manifold and the ttool crashed into the wor kpiece
[12:04:11] <zeeshan> and it wasn't even my fault!
[12:04:40] <zeeshan> even though linuxcnc says 2.000 on the readout
[12:04:43] <archivist> something like a bean can base annular corrugations
[12:04:45] <_methods> oh wow super thin
[12:04:56] <zeeshan> putting a dial indicator on the Y axis shows that the axis is moving a whole 200 thou
[12:04:59] <zeeshan> over 5 minutes..
[12:05:04] <zeeshan> in certain locations
[12:05:10] <zeeshan> some locations it's perfectly fine. like 1.000
[12:05:25] <zeeshan> but if i move it in 50 thou increements, there are locations of the scale where it starts moving on its own
[12:06:26] <zeeshan> =/
[12:09:23] <_methods> might be worth tryin it again using some oil/lube on the material/die/punch
[12:10:23] <archivist> I might polish up the ring that failed so it has less stretch too
[12:10:36] <_methods> yeah smoother is better
[12:10:47] <_methods> aluminum likes to "catch" on tooling when it forms
[12:11:10] <_methods> i shoot down punches and die with wd-40 every 10-20 parts or so
[12:11:19] <_methods> depending on how bad its galling on my tooling
[12:11:29] <archivist> I have a steel punch and al die
[12:12:06] <SpeedEvil> Impact forming is cool
[12:12:32] <archivist> I dont have the explosives for that
[12:13:22] <_methods> hehe
[12:13:39] <SpeedEvil> Do I mean impact forming?
[12:13:43] <SpeedEvil> Impact extrusion
[12:13:46] <archivist> yorkshire fittings and the copper tee, that is hydraulic pushed out the side
[12:13:48] <SpeedEvil> How they make coke cans
[12:13:59] <_methods> deep draw
[12:14:30] <archivist> I have the Scientific American when that was first developed
[12:14:41] <archivist> it made the cover
[12:15:16] <SpeedEvil> archivist: REally?
[12:15:16] <zeeshan> 5457 magic aluminum
[12:15:19] <zeeshan> that forms so wellllllllll
[12:15:21] <SpeedEvil> You can do that with paper?
[12:15:39] <archivist> SpeedEvil, yup
[12:15:53] <SpeedEvil> nvm. 'It made the cover'
[12:17:47] <archivist> bah cant find it on google images
[12:18:33] <archivist> amazes me that they also do it with steel cans
[12:18:49] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I was addressing the purely bad joke 'made the cover' as in 'manufactured the cover by impact forming'
[12:20:00] <archivist> you need to use the IRC irony font for that
[12:26:53] <zeeshan> archivist: https://www.google.com/patents/US4811582?dq=ininventor:%22Matthew+P.+Sklad%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIgMSRrpjqxgIViQ2SCh3v8wer
[12:27:20] <zeeshan> that patent is held by one of the profs here
[12:27:20] <zeeshan> haha
[12:27:31] <zeeshan> he gets a huge % of profits from it
[12:27:39] <zeeshan> cause that's used in forming aluminum cans for beverages
[12:27:47] <zeeshan> i need a patent like that :{
[12:27:52] <_methods> heheh
[12:28:01] <_methods> sarcasm and irony font
[12:31:04] <archivist> that references https://www.google.com/patents/US4233831
[12:31:46] <zeeshan> yessir
[12:32:26] <archivist> I seem to remember it was the thickness and depth rather than the speed in the article I read
[12:32:42] <zeeshan> aluminum is highly strain rate sensitive
[12:33:15] <zeeshan> i think you're referring to limit draw ratio
[12:33:28] <zeeshan> which is the blank diameter to cup height
[12:34:14] <zeeshan> ive done some testing on stainless steel and aluminum
[12:34:34] <zeeshan> where you use a hemispherical punch and slowly deform a clamped round specimen
[12:34:35] <archivist> 1970's cans had a bottom, then out came the deep draw ones with a lid and body
[12:35:01] <zeeshan> you notice with punch that the failure happens as a ring
[12:35:06] <zeeshan> well away from the pole
[12:35:15] <zeeshan> you add some grease, it gets closer
[12:35:29] <zeeshan> you add some rubber sheet with grease
[12:35:33] <zeeshan> and bam its almost at the pole!
[12:36:14] <archivist> hmmmm rubber goods
[12:36:18] <zeeshan> but i noticed metals like 7075 form like ass at room temp
[12:36:20] <zeeshan> 6061 is decent
[12:36:24] <zeeshan> 5457 is boss
[12:36:47] <zeeshan> with a thin material like that
[12:36:50] <zeeshan> i bet any stretch is bad
[12:36:53] <zeeshan> you want to draw it
[12:37:13] <zeeshan> then you can get infinitely long cups :)
[12:37:29] <zeeshan> (depending on how much material is available)
[12:38:09] <archivist> I did consider metal spinning
[12:38:26] <archivist> but that is a black art
[12:38:29] <zeeshan> haha
[12:38:50] <_methods> andypugh seems to have revived it
[12:38:52] <_methods> hehe
[12:39:03] <_methods> he spun those headlights
[12:39:17] <archivist> seen a few vids of the technique
[12:39:38] <roycroft> metal spinning looks kind of scary, but heaps of fun
[12:39:41] <archivist> not sure I could do it to thin shim
[12:39:57] <zeeshan> what shape are you trying to form?
[12:40:00] <Loetmichel> zeeshan; 7075 doesent "form" at all iirc
[12:40:02] <_methods> i have no idea
[12:40:05] <Loetmichel> it shatters
[12:40:07] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: everything forms :)
[12:40:07] <_methods> i've never done it on purpose
[12:40:32] <archivist> try to form cast iron
[12:40:35] <Loetmichel> at room temperature it shatters instead of bending/forming
[12:40:35] <roycroft> try spinning a thin sheet of cast iron some time
[12:40:49] <_methods> hehe
[12:41:01] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: you can do light forming at room temp
[12:41:04] <zeeshan> it still has some ductility
[12:41:05] <zeeshan> not much
[12:41:18] <zeeshan> 10%?
[12:41:19] <zeeshan> i forget
[12:41:20] <Loetmichel> not much is great understatement
[12:41:24] <roycroft> the instant you start spinning it it's no longer at room temperature
[12:41:27] <Loetmichel> less iirc
[12:41:34] <zeeshan> http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T6
[12:41:47] <Loetmichel> you can bend a 1mm sheet 7075 with a 20mm inner radius
[12:41:51] <Loetmichel> 10mm and you have 2 parts
[12:42:18] <Loetmichel> been there, tried that ;)
[12:42:33] <zeeshan> basically i was making a pan for my apparatus
[12:42:36] <zeeshan> and needed a 90 degree bend
[12:42:40] <zeeshan> 7075 failed after 45 deg
[12:42:46] <zeeshan> 6061 suceeded
[12:42:56] <zeeshan> but you could see the microcracks
[12:43:03] <zeeshan> 5457 a joke :D
[12:43:05] <Loetmichel> i know
[12:43:11] <Loetmichel> thats my daily job
[12:43:21] <zeeshan> same here! :P
[12:43:31] <Loetmichel> i use a trick tho: i bend by hand and mill it down at the bends to half thickness
[12:43:40] <Loetmichel> and i use AlMg3
[12:43:49] <Loetmichel> not 7075 ;)
[12:44:00] <Loetmichel> no idea what that is in material number tho
[12:44:13] <Loetmichel> 6061 comes close i think
[12:44:39] <Loetmichel> i do thinks like this out of 1,5mm thick sheet: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15862&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:44:44] <Loetmichel> all bend by hand
[12:45:14] <zeeshan> nice
[12:45:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14160&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- some fritzbox router enclosures in different states of finishing
[12:46:02] <Loetmichel> you can see the milled slots
[12:46:50] <zeeshan> what are those boxes for
[12:47:04] <Loetmichel> shielded router enclosures
[12:47:10] <zeeshan> ah
[12:47:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14217 <- before/after
[12:47:39] <zeeshan> very nice :)
[12:49:01] <Loetmichel> of course the wifi/dect antennae are soldered off and deactivated ;)
[12:50:54] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: i had a similar problem to yours
[12:51:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=14597&g2_serialNumber=2
[12:51:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14778&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:51:22] <Loetmichel> laptop PSU with extended temperature range
[12:51:41] <roycroft> odd
[12:51:47] <Loetmichel> and the only already ribbed al sheets you can buy are cast aluminim
[12:51:53] <roycroft> i'm looking at a paper folder that is rated at 11,000 sheets/hour
[12:51:59] <Loetmichel> ... so they break when you try to bend
[12:52:01] <roycroft> but its monthly duty cycle is 20,000 folds
[12:52:18] <Loetmichel> so i took 4mm sheets of alMg3 and MILLED the ribs in it...
[12:52:20] <roycroft> so it can be use a couple hours/month
[12:52:33] <roycroft> or less than an hour/month if you're doing tri-folds
[12:52:44] <roycroft> seems a little dubious
[12:52:58] <Loetmichel> took quite a bit of time ,)
[12:55:03] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: there you can see the slots in the sheets even better: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15332&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:22:15] <zeeshan> yea :D
[13:36:37] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, how'd the manifold come out?
[13:43:35] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: massive failure
[13:43:38] <zeeshan> my Y axis moved by itself
[13:43:41] <zeeshan> crashed into the flange
[13:43:49] <zeeshan> now i have to somehow try to salvage it
[13:43:51] <zeeshan> or replace the flange
[14:01:15] <Tom_itx> oops
[14:07:08] <_methods> http://www.hkepc.com/12824/page/17#view
[14:08:05] <_methods> might have to upgrade on this one
[14:14:12] <zeeshan> woohoo
[14:14:16] <zeeshan> i have so many tomatos
[14:14:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/O5WQ5T6.jpg
[14:15:10] <Tom_itx> any red ones yet?
[14:15:17] <zeeshan> i predict about a week
[14:15:19] <zeeshan> to two
[14:15:21] <_methods> guess i'll wait till dec or so and see if it has any issues
[14:15:44] <PetefromTn_> Jeez man I just spent two and a half hours at the DMV like a moron renewing my one day expired license.....
[14:15:55] <skunkworks> your y axis moved by itself?
[14:16:09] <zeeshan> skunkworks: yes
[14:16:16] <zeeshan> without ferroring
[14:16:36] <skunkworks> points to an encoder issue...
[14:16:53] <_methods> dmv is one of the layers of hell
[14:17:17] <_methods> i'm pretty sure dante is stuck there now
[14:17:29] <PetefromTn_> I think I saw some devils demons and illegals in there heh
[14:17:51] <Tom_itx> long lines and little seating
[14:18:18] <zeeshan> skunkworks: so basically the encoder isn't counting
[14:18:21] <zeeshan> when it's supposed to?
[14:18:27] <Tom_itx> what pisses me off about that is you'll be waiting in line and someone went online and gave themselves a placeholder ahead of you
[14:18:39] <PetefromTn_> I even used the automated teller, did not want to change anything related to my license and I STILL was there for over two hours
[14:19:14] <skunkworks> more likely counting (noise or such) when it isn't supposed to.
[14:19:17] <_methods> heh i got my CDL in virginia and i went into the dmv and there was no one there and like 20 people sitting at the counters
[14:19:28] <_methods> they said the governer had to use a regular dmv one day
[14:19:42] <_methods> and after that he reformed their dmv system lol
[14:20:07] <_methods> no lines at a dmv was just skary
[14:20:38] <jdh> pete: couldn't you have renewed by mail?
[14:20:48] <PetefromTn_> worst part is I found out that I could actually do it online even after it expired
[14:21:07] <PetefromTn_> its been five years so I don't remember last time LOL
[14:21:27] <PetefromTn_> they don't even give you a hard license anymore at the DMV
[14:21:42] <_methods> hahah
[14:21:44] <PetefromTn_> they give you this printed copy until the real one arrives in the mail.
[14:21:51] <Tom_itx> yeah same here
[14:22:11] <Tom_itx> issued from the state instead of the local office
[14:22:23] <PetefromTn_> the guy at the desk told me they do that to ensure it goes to the correct address LOL
[14:22:56] <_methods> that's funny kid you don't look like you're 55
[14:23:14] <PetefromTn_> I guess people were lying about thier actual address to get valid licenses..... unbelievable
[14:23:24] <_methods> hehe
[14:23:28] <_methods> mclovin
[14:24:57] <skunkworks> zeeshan: did it stay off?
[14:29:34] <skunkworks> or not counting.. :)
[14:32:01] <zeeshan> sec
[14:32:34] <zeeshan> skunkworks: if it was counting when it wasn't supposed to
[14:32:46] <zeeshan> wouldn't that show in the dro
[14:36:16] <furrywolf> ARGH
[14:36:28] <furrywolf> I tried going back to work today... failed miserably.
[14:38:07] <furrywolf> I can barely walk, I crunched my neck trying to look behind backing up the van and fell over onto the passenger seat, I'm back to having my leg numb, everything hurts too much to move.
[14:38:07] <furrywolf> this is really fucking pissing me off!
[14:39:45] <furrywolf> I told the people I work for that they should start trying to find someone else, as I don't know when or if I'll ever be able to do my job again.
[14:40:24] <furrywolf> I haven't had any income for almost a month now, and I really need to be working...
[14:41:13] * furrywolf curls up into a painful and depressed wolfyball
[14:41:51] <zeeshan> sue that person!
[14:42:12] <PetefromTn_> Sounds like you might need a Chiropractor
[14:42:22] <furrywolf> she lives in the low-income retirement apartment complex. probably doesn't have any money.
[14:42:38] <CaptHindsight> the shop needs air conditioning
[14:42:46] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: I think I need a lot more than a chiropractor.
[14:42:50] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight So does mine LOL
[14:43:02] <cradek> sounds like you need short or long term disability income
[14:43:12] <CaptHindsight> I left the doors open for the painters to do the jambs
[14:43:42] <CaptHindsight> and now it's a humid mess
[14:44:14] <PetefromTn_> I have a couple different window AC units in the attic and also one of those floor mounted ones that goes thru the window I can use probably that I bought when our old AC unit in the house stopped working
[14:44:38] <CaptHindsight> ever stand at look at the parts and it's so hot and muggy you don't know what to do with them
[14:44:50] <PetefromTn_> I kept saying I would sell them to help pay myself back for the new AC unit but I keep thinking what if something goes wrong with it at some point then I am screwd
[14:45:13] <furrywolf> cradek: from where? she (the responsible driver) has crap insurance and probably has no money.
[14:45:43] <PetefromTn_> there are plenty of people on disability that were injured by people with no money
[14:46:13] <cradek> yeah, I mean the first-world social program type of help, not the car insurance type of help
[14:46:26] <furrywolf> I'm not about to be a government parasite.
[14:46:39] <PetefromTn_> you should see if you can get a job doing phone based technical support....you are pretty good at it!
[14:46:47] <_methods> lol
[14:47:01] <cradek> being able to eat while you heal up is a good thing
[14:47:06] <furrywolf> I'm only good at it on irc. on the phone they can hear the sound of my head hitting the desk. :P
[14:47:12] <cradek> heh
[14:47:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah there is nothing wrong with getting help when you ACTUALLY need it
[14:47:46] <PetefromTn_> there are plenty of sapsuckers that get it and don't need it
[14:48:25] <PetefromTn_> not that I am advocating welfare here just saying if you really can't work due to injuries and have no other recourse it is there.
[14:49:06] <PetefromTn_> Oh and I agree about the phone and actually hearing the frustration in your voice might cause problems..hehe
[14:49:27] <cradek> yeah, you guys can never hear the things I say to the screen
[14:49:34] <_methods> hehe
[14:49:34] <PetefromTn_> like JEEZ MAN this asshole doesn't even know how to use a chinese DC power supply!!!!
[14:49:52] <furrywolf> nah, I'm nicer than that. :P
[14:50:03] <_methods> cradek: did you see that motorcycle with teh nixie speedometer
[14:50:05] <furrywolf> asshole requires an attitude, not just ignorance. :)
[14:50:27] <cradek> _methods: no (nixies don't work in sunlight)
[14:50:31] <PetefromTn_> besides they mostly do online tech support nowadays anyways...
[14:51:05] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoKS5pUxWZg
[14:52:23] <PetefromTn_> thats pretty cool
[14:52:29] * zeeshan is swearing at all of you
[14:52:30] <PetefromTn_> I LOVE Cafe racers
[14:52:33] <zeeshan> :-)
[14:52:46] * PetefromTn_ thinks Zeeshan can kiss it :D
[14:52:48] <_methods> figured cradek might be interested
[14:53:03] <cradek> outdoors, overcast? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N6n4Epcdw8
[14:53:26] <_methods> no idea
[14:53:30] <PetefromTn_> I really want to build one here
[14:53:32] <_methods> i know you had some nixie projects
[14:53:38] <_methods> thought you might get a kick out of that
[14:53:41] <cradek> thanks
[14:53:51] <cradek> (I've made clocks out of all sorts of things)
[14:53:57] <PetefromTn_> I have visions of grandeur of machining custom triple clamps and clip ons etc etc.
[14:53:59] <_methods> i have no idea if they're even nixie tubes
[14:54:04] <_methods> i'm a nixie n00b
[14:54:05] <cradek> yeah, they are
[14:54:14] <_methods> actually not even a n00b
[14:54:18] <_methods> i just like them
[14:54:19] <PetefromTn_> Need to find me a decent builder for a song
[14:56:59] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Wx2PHIYGI Droplet Dancing
[14:58:33] <zeeshan> wow CaptHindsight
[14:58:38] <_methods> cool
[14:58:39] <zeeshan> that surface tension based sorting
[14:58:40] <zeeshan> that is COOL
[15:09:38] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIv6WtSF9I 52 axes of lamb nightmare
[15:09:57] <SpeedEvil> Scott - Automated Lamb Boning System 2011
[15:15:00] <XXCoder> cant imang ecleaning whole thing
[15:18:46] <furrywolf> it's hard to imagine that's cheaper than immigrant labor...
[15:19:29] <XXCoder> very high inital cost, but number of workers in few years and its paid off
[15:19:55] <XXCoder> I would say it would need hmm 20 workers to go at same speed
[15:20:57] <_methods> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/07/15/a-brief-history-of-flash/
[15:21:18] <XXCoder> 16627.2 year wage * 20 workers = 332,544
[15:21:51] <XXCoder> I assumed $8 minium wage and 20 workers, I'm sure it needs more.
[15:22:42] <CaptHindsight> it's interesting to see what has to be SS vs what doesn't in that meat plant
[15:23:07] <furrywolf> ss or not, it's probably all designed for washdown duty.
[15:24:16] <SpeedEvil> I would be very surprised if there aren't a lot of high-pressure wash nozzles around
[15:24:30] <XXCoder> maybe
[15:24:48] <CaptHindsight> they make such a big deal about SS and then there are robots arms draped with plastic, so it must be up to the inspectors opinion
[15:25:19] <SpeedEvil> They may simply replace the plastic daily.
[15:25:25] <PetefromTn_> does this mean we dont need flash player anymore LOL
[15:25:26] <SpeedEvil> Plus - it may be at 5C or so
[15:26:05] <_methods> that is a LOT of stainless
[15:26:40] <SpeedEvil> So - the conclusion of the Falcon 9 launch accident is that it needs more struts.
[15:26:44] <SpeedEvil> They analysed struts holding the helium pressurisation tank down in the upper stage, and found that a percent or so of them failed at 1/10th design failure load
[15:26:54] <_methods> yeah i'm sure there is a kerbal joke in there somewhere
[15:27:14] <_methods> need more strut
[15:27:36] <SpeedEvil> 'After testing at an enormous number, found one that fialed at below 2,000 lb. level. Did some material analysis, problem w/ grain structure
[16:03:34] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: probably easy to detech parts that get dirty to clean
[16:04:07] <XXCoder> you notice machines that go all over is completely covered in plastic. probably often replaced
[16:04:18] <XXCoder> plastic
[16:28:47] <Deejay> gn8
[16:34:48] * JT-Shop fires up the plasma table
[16:36:04] * furrywolf sits around being useless
[16:40:23] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: still not better?
[16:43:01] <furrywolf> no
[16:43:10] <furrywolf> I tried working today, and now can hardly move.
[16:46:47] <SpeedEvil> Damn.
[16:46:48] <SpeedEvil> :/
[17:08:05] <PetefromTn_> Damn man I think it is gonna rain and thunderstorm all summer long!!
[17:09:41] <furrywolf> it's been nice the last few days here, but I've been too useless to enjoy them.
[17:19:54] <PetefromTn_> WOAH man that bolt just shook the whole damn house LOL jeez man the gods must be PISSED!!
[17:26:32] <_methods> oh no its hittin you now?
[17:26:44] <_methods> probably be hittin us tonight then
[17:27:37] <PetefromTn_> yep get ready man the stuff is heading your way
[17:28:24] <_methods> i hope not my dog goes nuts
[17:28:30] <_methods> that means no sleep for me
[17:28:40] <PetefromTn_> Your dog too...
[17:28:44] <_methods> yeah
[17:28:49] <PetefromTn_> my Husky DOES NOT LIKE BANGS OF ANY SORT!!
[17:28:57] <_methods> he got so bad the other day he wouldn't stop vomiting
[17:28:58] <PetefromTn_> he cowers like a baby in the corner
[17:29:03] <_methods> we had to take him to the vet
[17:29:06] <PetefromTn_> WOAH he never vomited
[17:29:13] <_methods> yeah it was bad
[17:29:19] <_methods> he couldnt keep anything down
[17:30:09] <PetefromTn_> when we first got him he was on the run outside when our neighbor had to shoot another neighbor's Pit bull with his 12gauge home protection weapon because it was killing his cat and the dog watched the whole thing.
[17:30:20] <PetefromTn_> he has not been the same since when it comes to loud bangs
[17:30:46] <_methods> i bet
[17:30:58] <PetefromTn_> Oh and fireworks are just as bad
[17:31:07] <_methods> yeah mine is same with them too
[17:31:20] <_methods> we gave him valium on 4th this year
[17:31:23] <_methods> that worked pretty good
[17:31:27] <PetefromTn_> our mortars we shot off on the 4th had him cowering again in the corner inside
[17:31:39] <_methods> we tried buspirone and acepromazine but neither of those worked well
[17:32:41] <_methods> heh the buspirone was the worst
[17:32:50] <_methods> he actually tried to bite me when he was on that
[17:33:11] <PetefromTn_> damn
[17:33:40] <_methods> yeah
[17:38:24] <JT-Shop> yea my Cocoa didn't like loud noises either
[17:39:59] <_methods> we got him from the pound
[17:40:07] <_methods> and he was like 3 or 4
[17:40:20] <_methods> i think the people that had him before left him oustside all the time
[17:40:38] <_methods> the spca said he was a bad digger
[17:40:46] <_methods> and hes never dug in our yard
[17:41:32] <PetefromTn_> I got my last pup from the pound. He was a Cocker Spaniel and he was a great dog. Sad he is no longer with us.
[17:41:56] <_methods> yeah i'll never buy a dog from a breeder
[17:42:03] <_methods> there are just too many dogs at the pound for that
[17:43:21] <PetefromTn_> the only reason we got our husky is because we got him from a craigslist ad that was from a wife of a soldier who was going to be overseas for extended periods of time and he did not want his wife to be burdened with taking care of him while he was gone.
[17:52:16] <furrywolf> my dog didn't care too much about noises. a relative's dog completely freaked out every time. my neighbor's dog has been out hunting/shooting enough that she doesn't care in the slightest...
[18:30:04] <Valen> no such thing as an outside dog
[18:30:25] <Valen> there are dogs that are kept outside, but there is no such thing as an outside dog
[18:57:55] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: you mean that they just wash everything down daily? They don't firebomb the plant every night to sanitize and rebuild? :)
[18:58:14] <PetefromTn_> Valen I agree man all of our dogs have always been inside dogs unless they are out on the run or the leash but they are in the house most of the time and every night.
[19:26:19] <SpeedEvil> Valen: what?
[19:26:30] <SpeedEvil> there are dogs that have generally been kept outside.
[19:26:36] <SpeedEvil> Huskies spring to mind
[19:31:22] <PetefromTn_> SpeedEvil My dog is a Siberian Husky and he is always inside
[19:31:56] <SpeedEvil> I was just wondering where 'no such thing as an outside dog' came from
[19:32:25] <SpeedEvil> Especially given that it seems likely that dogs were around before houses
[19:32:57] <PetefromTn_> well I personally took it as a sentiment that NO dog should be taken on as a pet and just left outside all the time in the elements
[19:33:47] <PetefromTn_> there are plenty of people who have dogs and just hook them to a chain and leave them out in the elements and are essentially neglected of course which is terrible.
[19:44:55] <SpeedEvil> Well, it depends - some are bred for it. - some guardian sheepdogs, for example
[19:45:10] <SpeedEvil> 'as a pet' - where the dog can't socialise to a degree - yes
[19:51:17] <PetefromTn_> well yeah of course a working dog that must be outside most of the time with a flock or whatever would of course be an exception and honestly in my own view if there is adequate shelter and a safe area and food/care it is probably fine as well....
[20:08:25] <furrywolf> ... there's no such thing as an inside dog. dogs are meant to be outside able to do whatever they want.
[20:10:24] <furrywolf> except for yappy dogs. they're not meant to be anywhere. ever.
[20:15:37] <malcom2073> It was an inside dog I tell ya.. seee
[20:16:47] <furrywolf> lol
[20:30:19] <greg___> So the Emco mill is alive sort of. I ran the 240 to the garage and after checking my rewiring in the Emco one last time, plugged it in. Everything powered up. Now I just have to figure out how to use it.
[20:31:42] <furrywolf> that's the easy part, right? :)
[20:32:15] <PetefromTn_> Hell I'll use it for you LOL
[20:32:56] <roycroft> excuse me
[20:33:01] <roycroft> i'm quite the expert on yippy dogs
[20:33:18] <roycroft> having three next-door-neighbors in a row each of whom had two yippy dogs
[20:33:30] <roycroft> i've lost countless hours of sleep because of them
[20:33:39] <roycroft> called the cops on them countless times
[20:33:52] <roycroft> and had the cops called on me once for allegedly threatening the dogs
[20:34:13] <roycroft> but i do not believe they are not meant to be anywhere, ever
[20:34:46] <greg___> the manuals are of little help, I'll figure it out, but I'll probably call Emco to see if it's working correctly.
[20:34:48] <roycroft> i believe that if they have an owner who is stupid enough to put up with them and that owner lives on enough land that no person off property is ever able to hear the dogs under any circumstances that's just fine
[20:35:02] <furrywolf> not until torture is universally abolished?
[20:35:28] <roycroft> let the yippy dogs and the dippy owners live together in shrill, annoying peace
[20:36:41] <PetefromTn_> Hey why don't you tell us how you really feel about it
[20:36:47] <furrywolf> lol
[20:36:57] <greg___> so far I managed to jog the axes, but not figured out how to spin the turret or spindle.
[20:37:16] <furrywolf> linuxcnc?
[20:37:28] <roycroft> it requires lots of barking
[20:37:34] <roycroft> preferably in two part harmony
[20:37:51] <greg___> Emco's winnc and fanuc 0M interface
[20:38:28] <furrywolf> no idea how to work it, then, but that sounds like something that will have a manual available.
[20:39:13] <greg___> i have manuals and teacher guides etc, but haven't figured it out yet. either I'm missing something or something isn't quite right
[20:39:45] <greg___> it needs to be homed manually and the manuals just say do do the procedure, but it doesn't seem to work.
[20:42:03] * roycroft is convinced that if yippy dog energy were able to be harnassed the world's energy needs would be fully met for decades to come
[20:42:24] <furrywolf> lol
[20:42:44] <furrywolf> I think we need to convince breeders to be responsible, and not breed any dogs that show any tendency towards yapping.
[20:43:20] <malcom2073> You can't convince humans to be responsible in their own breeding, much less the breeding of any other animals
[20:44:19] <roycroft> it's more in the training than the breeding, imo
[20:44:22] <roycroft> but i'm not a dog expert
[20:44:37] <roycroft> as an example
[20:44:43] <roycroft> my current neighbors have two yippy dogs
[20:44:53] <roycroft> that seems to be the standard number for some reason
[20:45:07] <furrywolf> assholes tend to have asshole dogs...
[20:45:08] <roycroft> a couple months ago i was in my shop, doing some work on my milling machine
[20:45:16] <roycroft> i had a project i needed to complete
[20:45:30] <roycroft> i was dirty with machining grime - mostly oil
[20:45:37] <roycroft> the neighbors came over
[20:45:53] <furrywolf> around here, stupid people like getting pitbulls, then beating and staving them until they're violent. they want to pass a law banning pitbulls, because that's obviously the problem.
[20:45:55] <roycroft> their dogs had broken the fence between their yard and mine and had escaped into my yard
[20:46:05] <roycroft> they demanded that i drop what i was doing and repair the fence
[20:46:22] <roycroft> i told them i'd look at it when i had a chance to take a break, in about 45 minutes
[20:46:33] <furrywolf> I had a neighbor who did that. his puppy was too friendly. so he'd pick it up and throw it against the wall of his house until it started trying to attack everything.
[20:46:48] <roycroft> ten minutes later their daughter came over and told me that the dogs escaped again and that i absolutely had to fix the fence immediately
[20:46:52] <furrywolf> ... so because their dogs broke the fence, you need to fix it?
[20:47:08] <roycroft> i politely told her that i would look at it when i had an opportunity, in about a half hour
[20:47:15] <roycroft> she said that the dogs were escaping
[20:47:32] <Tom_itx> give her a log chain and send her home
[20:47:34] <roycroft> at that point i told her that it was her problem, not mine, and that perhaps she should keep them in the house for a bit
[20:47:34] <furrywolf> so because her dogs are escaping, you need to fix it? :P
[20:47:51] <furrywolf> keep a pair of shock collars on hand to give to her next time that happens
[20:47:53] <roycroft> so i went out a half hour or so later and fixed the broken fence board
[20:48:00] <roycroft> the next day the dogs broke another fence board
[20:48:05] <roycroft> and i got the same demands
[20:48:25] <roycroft> i told them that it was not my responsibility to keep their dogs out of my yard, but their responsibility to keep their dogs in their yard
[20:48:44] <furrywolf> ah. and now they hate you because you're an asshole and a bad person.
[20:48:47] <roycroft> and that they needed to pay for the fence repairs since their dogs were breaking the fence
[20:49:02] <roycroft> they told me they could not be responsible for what their dogs mightr do in my yard
[20:49:27] <roycroft> and i told them that if their dogs were in my yard i'd take care of the situation by calling animal control and having them impound the dogs
[20:49:38] <roycroft> at which point they called the police and said i threatened to harm their dogs
[20:49:58] <furrywolf> sounds like assholes to me.
[20:50:06] <roycroft> the police came over, i explained the situation, and one of the cops said "what the fuck are we doing here?"
[20:50:20] <roycroft> and then they went next door and told the yippy dog people to keep their dogs under control
[20:50:28] <furrywolf> lol
[20:50:46] <roycroft> sadly, this is typical yippy dog people mentality
[20:50:53] <furrywolf> yep
[20:51:18] <roycroft> and the behavior of the owners is what convinces me that it's the owners' fault, not the dogs'
[20:51:24] <roycroft> dogs can be trained
[20:51:45] <roycroft> i hate this situation, but harbor no animosity towards the dogs
[20:51:56] <roycroft> they're just pawns in a lame game of incompetent assholery
[20:52:34] <roycroft> but those people, if they want to keep their dogs, should be forced to buy 30 acres of land somewhere and put their house right in the middle of that land
[20:52:42] <roycroft> and live there with their dogs
[20:52:50] <roycroft> not in the city
[20:53:03] <roycroft> and perhaps i exaggerate
[20:53:08] <roycroft> 10 acres might be enough
[20:53:19] <furrywolf> ... 30 acres is not enough.
[20:53:20] <roycroft> but 30 acres would make sure nobody hears them
[20:53:25] <roycroft> depends on the land
[20:53:28] <roycroft> if it's wooded, it's plenty
[20:53:41] <roycroft> if it's on a plateau in the mountains, 30,000 acres might not be enough
[20:53:44] <furrywolf> heh, I've known some dogs that wander >10 miles. fortunately, none of them were yappy.
[20:53:59] <roycroft> oh, the homestead needs to be fenced in too
[20:54:06] <roycroft> so that the dogs cannot get to the edge of the property
[20:54:20] <roycroft> fence in a couple acres right in the middle and keep them there
[20:54:28] <roycroft> there is a solution for city yippy dogs
[20:54:30] <roycroft> muzzles
[20:54:42] <roycroft> but that would be cruel
[20:54:42] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: smoothbore or rifled?
[20:54:56] <roycroft> and since it's not the dogs' fault i would not advocate for that
[20:55:07] <roycroft> take them away and let them play
[20:55:18] <furrywolf> there used to be a BIG wolf/malamute/something where I used to live, that'd wander around the entire city... he liked hiking down to the beach, about a mile away... sometimes you'd see him jogging along roads, sometimes a whole city over... always happy, always wanting to say hi and get pet.
[20:55:37] <furrywolf> he only lived to about six though. that's a problem with big dogs. :(
[20:55:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:55:54] <SpeedEvil> They only get to ~30 tops
[20:56:05] <furrywolf> ?
[20:56:26] <SpeedEvil> Friend of mine is getting a australian blue cattledog - as an assistance animal. Random wierd pain syndromes aren't fun.
[20:56:28] <roycroft> the frequency and volume of the bark is inversely proportional to the size of the dog
[20:57:29] <furrywolf> there were a lot of nice dogs where I used to live... and, like most rural areas, no one would ever think of chaining them, so they'd all wander around.
[20:58:06] <SpeedEvil> Well socialised dogs are rarely a problem
[20:58:10] <furrywolf> there was a racing hound that would happily trot alongside your car at 25mph trying to get you to reach out the window and pet her.
[20:58:15] <SpeedEvil> hah
[20:58:31] <roycroft> i'm not a fan of dogs
[20:58:39] <roycroft> i don't ever want to own one
[20:58:41] <furrywolf> I am a fan of dogs. :P
[20:58:42] <roycroft> i have cats
[20:58:57] <roycroft> but i have nothing against people responsibly owning dogs
[20:59:18] <roycroft> i think they're generally inapproriate for cities, as most city lots are too small for a dog to comfortably live
[20:59:23] <furrywolf> I don't currently have the time and space for a dog... well, actually, now that it seems like I'm useless and can't work, I probably do have the time... but not the space. a dog needs to be able to run free, and there's too many reasons here one shouldn't.
[20:59:57] <roycroft> an acre is probably the smallest lot size that can happily sustain an active dog
[21:00:16] <roycroft> so if you want a dog, go live in the country
[21:00:41] <roycroft> if you want a yippy dog (or two), go live in buttfuck egypt
[21:00:47] <roycroft> because even the country won't tolerate you
[21:00:51] <furrywolf> lol
[21:02:27] <furrywolf> I might end up with a dog... the wife of the family next door is getting increasingly crazy, and trying to make the husband get rid of his absolutely perfect, wonderful, sweet dog... I told him I'd take it if she did force him.
[21:02:45] <furrywolf> she's a level of crazy rarely encountered.
[21:02:49] <SpeedEvil> :/
[21:03:04] <SpeedEvil> Unless you're in historical novels.
[21:03:11] <PetefromTn_> Keep your head down man ;)
[21:03:19] <SpeedEvil> 'Ignore the screaming, she's been locked in the attic for 12 years now'
[21:03:46] <furrywolf> as an example, two weeks ago, she drove up in her big, loud dodge truck... then leaned against it swearing at the top of her lungs about how her husband wasn't there.
[21:04:21] <PetefromTn_> maybe she is just misunderstood?
[21:04:24] <furrywolf> when he came out, she started screaming "YOU KNOW WHAT MY TRUCK SOUNDS LIKE! WHEN YOU HEAR MY TRUCK COMING, YOU __WILL__ GET THE FUCK OUT HERE AND WAIT ON ME BEFORE I FINISH PARKING!!!" etc for fifteen minutes...
[21:04:56] <furrywolf> she hates the dog because "THE DOG IS FUCKING LAZY JUST LIKE YOU AND DOESN'T DO ANYTHING USEFUL" etc.
[21:05:33] <SpeedEvil> She sounds like a charming, cultured lady.
[21:05:55] <furrywolf> she believes having the dog is just a waste of time and money and it should be dumped in the river. that's why I told him I'd take the dog...
[21:06:04] <SpeedEvil> If you hate someone that much - don't yell at them in the street - fucking leave
[21:06:50] <PetefromTn_> sounds like the guy might be afraid for his life heh
[21:07:37] <SpeedEvil> Italian greyhounds are awesome.
[21:07:53] <PetefromTn_> anything Italian is awesome.... ;)
[21:08:09] <Tom_itx> yeah i have a mineature one
[21:08:17] <Tom_itx> wouldn't trade it for anything
[21:08:32] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: organised crime?
[21:08:55] <PetefromTn_> guess that depends on your point of view LOL
[21:08:56] <furrywolf> organized crime is more than just italian. a lot of mexican organized crime around here....
[21:09:02] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/misc/puppy2.jpg
[21:09:07] <Tom_itx> they're bigger now
[21:09:24] <PetefromTn_> that looks like a beagle
[21:09:30] <Tom_itx> the one on top is
[21:10:05] <furrywolf> lol
[21:10:50] <furrywolf> my doggy passed away about 15 years ago... http://fw.bushytails.net/jenny01.jpg
[21:11:59] <Tom_itx> they're not a bit spoiled
[21:12:59] <furrywolf> when she was young(ish), she really liked climbing... we'd go to the beach and she'd climb rocks that rock climbers were using to practice on. sometimes she'd try to lick their faces when they couldn't move a hand to defend themselves.
[21:13:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:14:03] <furrywolf> she'd climb them by tucking all her legs against her body, then one at a time moving them up to the next toehold, just like a rock climber... and she had very flexible toes so she could get her claws in the tiniest cracks and hold on.
[21:14:09] <PetefromTn_> ya know I love my dog and he is an AMAZINGLY beautiful dog. But he is a Pain in the ass an awful lot.
[21:14:33] <furrywolf> she tried redwood trees a few times, but quickly learned the flaky bark wasn't nearly as safe as rocks.
[21:14:51] <furrywolf> people did NOT expect to see a dog 20ft up a sheer rock wall. :)
[21:14:58] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/N5jOa2n.jpg
[21:15:17] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/hFC8BeB.jpg
[21:15:42] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: could she get down OK?
[21:15:50] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: yep
[21:16:42] <furrywolf> when we went to the beach, she'd also dig herself tunnels to sleep in when it was hot out... nice burrowing instinct there. she'd walk around until she found a grass-topped dune, then tunnel under the roots, which made a nice strong roof.
[21:16:42] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/OcYPP7h.jpg
[21:17:01] <PetefromTn_> He's a real pain in the ass but we love him hehehe
[21:18:39] <furrywolf> she was some percentage timber wolf, which I've been told by a few people explained the tunnels and the climbing.
[21:21:47] <furrywolf> wolfdogs are pretty popular around here, even though they're technically illegal. yay government.
[21:23:10] <furrywolf> we rescued her as a puppy. someone got her, didn't figure on a wolfdog puppy having any energy (they wanted a dog for an apartment), then took her to out vet to have her put down (!). the vet told them to get the fuck out of his office, then tried giving her away. we were in there for another pet, and kept her.
[23:47:26] <t12> http://www.ebay.com/itm/9336-Lot-Of-100-Niagara-End-Mills-5-16-X-3-8-X-3-4-35100-HSS4-100-Pieces-/391205800689?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b15aecaf1
[23:47:31] <t12> thats sure alot of end mills
[23:48:17] <t12> used once to cut plastic is pretty specific
[23:48:51] <furrywolf> "used once because they were too dull to be used twice"?
[23:49:00] <t12> i bought a smaller lot from them
[23:49:05] <t12> looked nearly unused
[23:49:57] <furrywolf> if they mean every endmill was used once, my assumption would be they were cutting something abrasive, and they replaced them instead of sharpening them.
[23:50:25] <furrywolf> I can't imagine why else you'd use a hundred endmills once instead of one a hundred times. lol
[23:50:31] <t12> same
[23:50:36] <t12> coating is intact on cutting edge
[23:50:40] <t12> some plastic residue floating around
[23:50:44] <t12> i guess i should do some test cuts
[23:51:43] <furrywolf> unless they were doing something where they needed very, very clean cuts, and were getting paid so well for the job that they could afford to toss the cutter after every piece just to be sure...
[23:52:23] <t12> in which case theres 1k nice endmills for sale for $1.5 ea
[23:52:36] <furrywolf> lol
[23:52:55] <furrywolf> I need to work on other parts of my machine before I stock up on cutters.
[23:53:00] <furrywolf> for example, a vise would be nice.
[23:58:37] <furrywolf> bbl