#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-13

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[00:00:05] <XXCoder> later they didnt have budget for ut
[00:00:14] <XXCoder> so it grew even more crappier
[00:00:34] <XXCoder> it almost has sign "imange planet there"
[00:01:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know but I still love that stuff
[00:02:05] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:02:19] <furrywolf> if you want crappy, watch TAS. :)
[00:02:35] <PetefromTn_> honestly it is a great show because my kids can watch it and I don't have to worry too much about nasty stuff
[00:02:58] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: oh yah the enchanted version adds more outside shots
[00:03:10] <XXCoder> getting it up to par to other series
[00:03:22] <PetefromTn_> gonna have to watch out for it
[00:03:46] <XXCoder> yeah its great
[00:04:01] <XXCoder> it carefully dont alter plot and such
[00:04:09] <XXCoder> just brief outside shots when right time
[00:04:13] <XXCoder> and effects woe
[00:04:15] <XXCoder> er wow
[00:04:29] <furrywolf> I suspect I'm the only one who remembers TAS. oh well.
[00:04:42] <XXCoder> tas can you expand that
[00:04:43] <PetefromTn_> I never watched the animated series
[00:04:50] <XXCoder> oh animated
[00:04:57] <PetefromTn_> its on netflix tho
[00:04:57] <XXCoder> dont think I watched most of it
[00:05:15] <XXCoder> I read all star trek series comics though
[00:05:19] <XXCoder> man the early ones..
[00:05:23] <XXCoder> it was so wrong
[00:05:34] <XXCoder> flames from warp engines LOL
[00:05:45] <furrywolf> heh, I've never even seen a star trek comic.
[00:05:49] * furrywolf isn't a trekkie
[00:05:58] <XXCoder> the later one repeats earlier version but you can see how flame lines is still there just not colored in
[00:06:15] <XXCoder> comics really is enjoyable
[00:06:24] <XXCoder> 3 armed alien
[00:07:10] <furrywolf> comics tend to have cheaper special effects and costumes. :P
[00:07:25] <furrywolf> as in, adding a third arm is MUCH cheaper in a comic than live-action tv show...
[00:07:37] <XXCoder> indeed
[00:11:34] <furrywolf> I've never been a comics fan either... the only comic book I've ever owned was a copy of Tintin In Tibet that someone gave me. lol
[00:11:49] <XXCoder> funny thing I was too poor to afford em,
[00:11:59] <XXCoder> so I didnt really become a fan till MUCH later
[00:15:57] <furrywolf> I've read a few webcomics, but... it's just not incredibly interesting. more of a waste of time.
[00:17:34] <XXCoder> what type do you like?
[00:17:53] <furrywolf> I like the type that involve going outside and doing something useful instead of reading comics. lol
[00:18:02] <XXCoder> lol
[00:38:38] <os1r1s> Can you call an NGC file from a button in gladevcp?
[01:13:01] <just_pink> hi,
[01:13:34] <just_pink> There is a simple softwre to make PCB?
[01:14:42] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?PCB_Milling_And_Drilling_With_Cheap_And_Simple_Height-Probing
[01:16:35] <just_pink> I mean to desigen it.
[01:16:48] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Ok0LQx0Uc whats the repeatability of this lathe?
[01:17:08] <just_pink> instead of using solidworks
[01:22:58] <archivist> use kicad
[01:23:39] <zeeshan> ive used diptrace before
[01:23:44] <zeeshan> is easy to use
[01:23:50] <zeeshan> nothing like altium
[01:24:23] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: 0.000001"
[01:24:25] <XXCoder> jk heh
[01:24:31] <XXCoder> honestly dunno
[01:24:40] <CaptHindsight> Altium is for posers
[01:24:46] <zeeshan> posers?
[01:25:13] <XXCoder> many videos says "HUGE lathe" but that video literally means it.
[01:25:19] <zeeshan> http://www.fedevel.com/welldoneblog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ddr2-layout-example.jpg
[01:25:22] <zeeshan> when you can do shit like this
[01:25:27] <zeeshan> you know its an awesome software
[01:25:37] <CaptHindsight> was watching old 2nd City clips, reminded me of Hosers and Posers
[01:26:31] <CaptHindsight> Altium is an Allegro wannabe :)
[01:26:45] <PetefromTn_> that's just freaking nutz
[01:28:42] <CaptHindsight> I working on a inkjet printer design that works like that lathe for parts that big
[01:28:49] <PetefromTn_> Can you imagine the chips they are gonna make from that shaft
[01:29:20] <CaptHindsight> make giant rollers
[01:29:33] <CaptHindsight> see the strips on the floor?
[01:30:32] <CaptHindsight> I'm wondering where that shaft came from
[01:30:39] <archivist> zeeshan, there is a user of kicad pushing the boundaries, doing some hairy fpga boards
[01:30:51] <CaptHindsight> or is that the rough forging?
[01:30:55] <PetefromTn_> well part is done for now. Gonna head to bed its been a long day...
[01:30:56] <zeeshan> lol
[01:31:07] <PetefromTn_> Gn8 folks!!
[01:31:18] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: and what its for
[01:31:41] <archivist> CaptHindsight, that started as a forging
[01:31:47] <CaptHindsight> maybe propeller shaft from a ship
[01:32:10] <archivist> can see the octagonal necking
[01:32:27] <XXCoder> I can't imange the sheer weight
[01:32:54] <XXCoder> if guy was caught under if it knocks loose, they can bury guy in big bottle
[01:33:00] <CaptHindsight> 8ft dia in the thick parts?
[01:33:06] <CaptHindsight> 30 ft long?
[01:33:38] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEIKB5Fapvc lighter one
[01:34:57] <CaptHindsight> maybe 200 tons
[01:35:20] <CaptHindsight> cubic foot of iron would weigh 491 lb
[01:35:31] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_50k2AHCzY small one
[01:35:36] <XXCoder> (compared to other 2)
[01:36:01] <CaptHindsight> π × r² × h maybe 800 cubic feet of iron?
[01:40:05] <CaptHindsight> How many machinists does it take to make an armature?
[01:42:28] <CaptHindsight> archivist: what is the repeatability of those lathes? Ever measure?
[02:19:46] <Deejay> moin
[02:30:35] <just_pink> DONE!
[02:30:50] <just_pink> now I have it in solidworks.
[02:32:17] <just_pink> what is the best option to make a G-code to remove the copper, this is goint to be for 110V so I need it to be without the copper between the lines.
[02:36:34] <Deejay> hi just_pink
[02:37:27] <archivist_herron> CaptHindsight, as good as they are made and used I imagine, a thou or few
[02:47:42] <just_pink> hi Deejay
[02:47:59] <just_pink> I need a cad of a diode
[02:56:09] <just_pink> I've made diode myself :)
[03:01:20] <just_pink> PCB DONE!
[03:01:30] <just_pink> do you want to see a pic?
[03:10:09] <just_pink> top http://i.imgur.com/mfFQv49.png bottom http://i.imgur.com/D72Ra1k.png
[03:17:16] <XXCoder> pretty nice.
[03:17:25] <XXCoder> I doubt I will ever need a circuit lol
[03:17:34] <XXCoder> but same time.. lol dunno]
[03:19:18] <just_pink> now I need to make the G code for that.
[03:19:54] <just_pink> all the time I'm using hsm express
[03:20:20] <just_pink> but maybe there is a better way to make a gcode for a pcb...
[03:22:44] <XXCoder> dunno havent had to make gcode yet lol
[03:31:53] <just_pink> what is dunno ?
[03:34:28] <XXCoder> full one would be "I don't know"
[03:36:05] <just_pink> ok..
[03:36:38] <Deejay> just_pink, no native english speaker?
[03:40:30] <just_pink> no.. :(
[03:41:24] <Deejay> where are you from?
[03:50:40] <just_pink> for cleaning surfaces with small end mill what it better conventional or climb milling
[03:52:31] <RifRaf|2> mainly the sharpness of your endmill, don't think it matters much if not using side of bit
[03:54:43] <just_pink> but I'm going to work with very sloow spindle..
[03:55:00] <just_pink> 1000 rpm with 1.2 mm endmill.
[04:00:34] <just_pink> why hsm express don't want to remove material from the corner of the PCB?
[04:01:52] <just_pink> hi mikegg
[04:02:21] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/HfoVR0r.png
[04:02:32] <just_pink> you see the problem?
[04:03:00] <just_pink> I'm using the 2D Adaptive tool
[04:12:21] <just_pink> SOLVED
[04:25:27] <just_pink> 1.3mb for gcode it is make sense?
[04:27:00] <_Sync_> I always wonder why the beds on those chinese long lathes are so tiny compared to other ones
[04:27:14] <XXCoder> just_pink: yeah. that looks like very complex and long route for em
[04:34:46] <just_pink> this is how the simulation look like
[04:37:00] <just_pink> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/P10zRPF.png
[04:37:19] <XXCoder> yep
[04:37:25] <XXCoder> very long path
[04:39:03] <just_pink> 4m of memory on the graphic card is enough for it?
[04:39:59] <XXCoder> dunno, but best to test it by air cut
[04:40:03] <XXCoder> see if its accurate
[04:40:12] <XXCoder> or cut foam or wood
[04:43:21] <just_pink> ok..
[04:44:07] <just_pink> but i have to finish the main component to panel first anyway..
[04:44:40] <just_pink> so maybe i will upgrade it..
[04:45:13] <XXCoder> cool
[04:45:53] <just_pink> on mt main computer i have pci express 2
[04:46:57] <just_pink> do you think that I can go with pci express 3 graphic card?
[04:47:57] <just_pink> hi MrFluffy
[04:55:56] <just_pink> what it is better more memory on the card or more cuda cores?
[05:04:08] <MrFluffy> hi just_pink
[05:04:36] <just_pink> you know about computers?
[05:04:43] <just_pink> what it is better more memory on the card or more cuda cores?
[05:05:06] <MrFluffy> no idea, never used cuda libs myself personally
[05:05:32] <just_pink> I want it to to solidworks computer..
[05:05:39] <just_pink> win7
[05:05:46] <MrFluffy> Im usually more worried about heat than the speed of my gpu.
[05:06:27] <MrFluffy> do you use solidworks already?
[05:07:39] <just_pink> yes few years..
[05:10:28] <archivist_herron> I like the gear mates in solidworks, good for mechanical clock design
[05:12:12] <just_pink> I want to make a watch, (not a clock) but you need extremely precise tools and machinery for that.
[05:13:49] <just_pink> how is the GTX 960
[05:14:12] <archivist_herron> I make the odd watch part for pocket watches and similar http://gears.archivist.info/gears/IMG_1214_th.JPG
[05:15:02] <archivist_herron> a lot of one off watch and clock work is hand turned
[05:16:49] <just_pink> how do you make it soo small..
[05:17:16] <archivist_herron> carefully
[05:17:46] <MrFluffy> really small tools :)
[05:18:04] <MrFluffy> although the likes of a rose engine isnt small by traditional standards I admit
[05:19:24] <archivist_herron> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2015/2015_01_08_Lorch_watch_lathe/IMG_1868.JPG
[05:19:46] <MrFluffy> do you do guilloche stuff archivist_herron ?
[05:21:38] <just_pink> archivist_herron:amazing! old fashioned,no cnc
[05:22:54] <archivist_herron> I also have a larger lorch for clock sizes http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lorch
[05:24:21] <archivist_herron> MrFluffy, not so far, but dont see why not and its just regular patterns
[05:25:25] <archivist_herron> often hand work is quicker than cnc
[05:25:48] <just_pink> how do you make the tooths on the gear?
[05:26:12] <MrFluffy> rework and maintenance stuff especially
[05:27:15] <MrFluffy> cnc mill and lathe work hasnt actually made many more things possible to make, its just made them quicker
[05:27:18] <MrFluffy> say it quietly in here...
[05:27:33] <archivist_herron> just_pink, that is where the cnc makes it easy, rotary table and gear cutter sometimes the cutter is hand ground to suit a job
[05:28:14] <just_pink> very nice!
[05:29:28] <archivist_herron> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=contrate
[05:29:41] <archivist_herron> that is the process of that little gear
[05:30:35] <just_pink> I see the colet hold it in place.
[05:31:06] <archivist_herron> make it on a stick so you can then do the second op in the lathe
[05:31:12] <just_pink> this is on a manual rotary table or cnc?
[05:31:19] <archivist_herron> cnc rotary
[05:31:25] <MrFluffy> I want to know where you buy those giant matchsticks from
[05:31:43] <archivist_herron> hehe
[05:32:08] <just_pink> MrFluffy: you machin tham on the cnc.
[05:32:42] <just_pink> now I want giant matchsticks
[05:32:58] <Valen> So I am restoring an old kerosene blowtorch http://imgur.com/gallery/ZG6oiOA
[05:33:01] <just_pink> I have planty of pvc foam..
[05:33:18] <Valen> I think i *may* have leached some copper out over the 40 years it was sitting in a shed
[05:33:30] <archivist_herron> I have to make small parts because there is no large matchstick shop here
[05:34:17] <just_pink> Valen: very nice restoroing
[05:34:24] <archivist_herron> Valen, its zinc loss leaving porous copper
[05:34:35] <just_pink> Valen: you use some boron based solvent?
[05:34:50] <archivist_herron> becomes brittle
[05:34:52] <Valen> just washed the inside out with fresh kero
[05:35:39] <archivist_herron> will crack and fall apart on any area with some remaining stress
[05:35:49] <just_pink> let it stay and see if it stay green
[05:36:03] <Valen> I'm going to get some fresh washers, and I'm shining up the outside
[05:36:24] <archivist_herron> do a pressure test
[05:36:31] <Valen> (I don't think it'll ever be used again in anger, but before I make it a display piece it has to be working)
[05:36:42] <just_pink> I think the ptina is priceless
[05:36:48] <Valen> I hate it lol
[05:37:10] <Valen> I'm not going to polish it up to super glossy, I'm going to leave it looking "used, but looked after"
[05:37:12] <just_pink> priceless don't touch it
[05:37:55] <Valen> heh too late ;->
[05:38:01] <just_pink> hehe
[05:41:06] <Valen> just_pink: http://imgur.com/HsSN0fk
[05:41:33] <Valen> archivist_herron: any paticular suggestions for pressure test?
[05:41:52] <Valen> fill with water 99% then pump air in until the relief valve reliefs?
[05:42:10] <just_pink> Valen: mm you know what, it is look much nicer now,
[05:42:21] <Valen> heh ;->
[05:42:25] <archivist_herron> water only till it vents
[05:42:54] <Valen> yeah, I meant fill it most of the way with water
[05:43:07] <Valen> I feel like I don't want water to go through the relief valve
[05:43:43] <archivist_herron> we only use water for a hydraulic, to compressable gas :)
[05:43:53] <archivist_herron> to/no
[05:44:20] <Valen> yeah I know does somewhat defeat the purpose
[05:44:37] <Valen> but this thing doesn't seem to need assloads of pressure
[05:44:47] <Valen> if we got 2 PSI into it I'd be shocked
[05:45:08] <Valen> oh I couldn't get the main flame tube off :-<
[05:45:26] <Valen> its siezed on pretty good
[05:45:58] <Valen> also this one doesn't come with a little spot for a puddle of metho that the others I have seen online have
[05:46:20] <Valen> they use it to pre-heat the gassifier section
[05:46:27] <Valen> (we used a little gas torch)
[05:46:37] <archivist_herron> some were a wick thing you would clip on
[05:46:39] <Valen> a longer video if you are keen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-_cLM6XuAU
[05:48:34] <Valen> interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1rMypZTSss seems to fill the central well with metho
[05:48:48] <Valen> I'm guessing the former owner of mine used kero as its black as heck
[05:53:57] <just_pink> someone know how to cut pvc foam?
[05:54:58] <archivist_herron> hot wire cutter
[05:55:15] <just_pink> the lable say PALIGHT Foamed PVC sheet
[05:56:10] <just_pink> archivist_herron: it's stiff like wood
[05:56:47] <just_pink> I tried with 2 fluts endmill
[05:57:08] <just_pink> but it make very ugly cut
[06:35:19] <archivist_herron> some materials need the right cutter and the right spindle rpm and feed
[06:48:11] <_methods> yeah plastics require very high feeds and speeds for a "good" cut
[06:48:34] <_methods> and good cutting tool geometry
[06:51:18] <MrFluffy> for foam freeze it first
[06:51:26] <MrFluffy> machine big block of frozen foam quickly :)
[06:51:53] <MrFluffy> he left anyway
[06:52:29] <archivist_herron> she
[06:52:43] <archivist_herron> methinks
[06:52:48] <Deejay> ++
[06:52:58] <Deejay> pink nails ;)
[06:53:29] <archivist_herron> so now two ladies, be on your best behaviour lads!
[06:54:11] * Deejay whispers to archivist_herron: who is the other one?
[06:54:22] <archivist_herron> LeelooMinai, :)
[06:54:25] <Deejay> aah
[07:01:53] <_methods> you can't tell these days anymore
[07:06:41] <_methods> http://www.princeton.edu/~reinhard/pdfs/KOREAN_DRAMA_I.pdf
[07:06:50] <_methods> freakin hilarious
[07:07:19] <_methods> now if we could just get some of these climate experts to realize they don't know how shit works we'd be set
[07:09:14] <_methods> admitting you don't know shit is the first step to enlightenment
[07:11:39] <MrFluffy> I don't know shit, but I do know someone who's job it is to do so.
[07:19:26] <mikegg> anyone ever look at using an optical mouse sensor to close the loop on spindle speed for example?
[07:21:19] <_methods> a mouse wheel encoder on your spindle
[07:21:26] <_methods> never tried it
[07:22:57] <_methods> no reason why it shouldn't work, might take some jiggery pokery though
[07:23:53] <mikegg> nah not the old school wheel-type. one of the fancy new optical sensors
[07:24:27] <mikegg> if you looked at both channels (X/Y) you could possibly correct for non-orthogonal mounting...
[07:26:25] <mikegg> maybe something like this: https://www.tindie.com/products/jkicklighter/adns-9800-optical-laser-sensor/
[07:26:27] <_methods> yeah i've never seen anyone try that
[07:28:54] <fenn> that would be relative position only, which would defeat the purpose of tracking spindle position for most uses
[07:29:18] <fenn> also you're adding latency for no good reason
[07:30:13] <mikegg> eh. it'd be good enough for closed-loop spindle control and maybe rigid tapping
[07:30:35] <fenn> an index channel on a spindle encoder tells you exactly when you pass a particular position so you can start a thread cutting cycle for example
[07:30:35] <archivist_herron> not the right tool for the job
[07:30:43] <_methods> and a normal encoder won't work why?
[07:31:03] <archivist_herron> a home made encoder disk is better
[07:31:05] <fenn> a normal encoder will work as long as you don't need to be at any particular position
[07:32:01] <_methods> i'm just saying why reinvent the wheel when there are already many solutions for this
[07:32:10] <fenn> you are reinventing the wheel
[07:32:28] <archivist_herron> those are for gaming, just looking for movement, not accurate position
[07:32:58] <_methods> that's my point
[07:33:03] <_methods> lol
[07:33:47] <fenn> i am attracted to the idea of using a mask/grating to amplify the optical quadrature signal
[07:34:49] <fenn> if you have an encoder with 100 lines and a mask with 101 lines you will see an optical illusion of a fuzzy blob move around 100 revolutions for every one revolution of the encoder
[07:35:04] <fenn> like a moire effect or a vernier caliper
[07:36:04] <fenn> with two regular LEDs back driven as sensors you should be able to detect this blob and determine position quite accurately, even more precisely than the encoder resolution since it's an analog signal
[07:36:19] * Loetmichel used tio make his own encoders ba printing this to a laserprinter film and stacking it: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=263
[07:37:17] <fenn> yes that looks exactly like what i was trying to describe
[07:37:49] <Loetmichel> the black one fixed with 2 optical switchess, the black on clear rotating
[07:38:45] <Loetmichel> actually its not 101/100 lines, its 2 times 100 lines, but on the inverse one one half is rotatet 1,8°
[07:39:14] <Loetmichel> so the resulting square signals out the optical switches will be 90 phase shifted
[07:39:19] <Loetmichel> quadrature signal
[07:39:58] <Loetmichel> 90°
[07:41:47] <fenn> Loetmichel: how do you get the two pieces of film close enough together but not so close that they rub against one another?
[07:44:03] <fenn> ah since they are square signals then you lose the nice sub-line resolving power of a sine wave
[07:44:05] <Loetmichel> fenn: they can rub
[07:44:17] <Loetmichel> just see to it that the toer is on the outside on both sides
[07:44:22] <Loetmichel> toner
[07:45:18] <Loetmichel> ... more or less square wave... depends on the exact placement and printout
[07:47:17] <just_pink> this is real?
[07:47:18] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TppsiASP1sw
[07:48:15] <just_pink> 60K spinle?
[07:48:17] <_methods> sure why not?
[07:48:26] <fenn> been a while since i've looked at this but it appears to be what i was describing http://fennetic.net/irc/encoder-vernier.pdf
[07:48:55] <_methods> looks like they'be built a custom spindle
[07:48:59] <Loetmichel> just_pink: thats easy
[07:49:08] <Loetmichel> at about 100k you run into some problems
[07:49:14] <Loetmichel> (mainly bearing problems)
[07:49:54] <just_pink> Loetmichel: I'm working with 1K spindle..
[07:50:12] <just_pink> where i can get 60K spindle?
[07:51:04] <_methods> http://www.accuratecnc.com/spareSpindle.php
[07:51:12] <mikegg> I just sold one on ebay
[07:51:31] <mikegg> NSK makes a pretty nice electric. think it's 350 W
[07:51:58] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201181743203?lpid=82&chn=ps
[07:52:11] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-3KW-75V-4-5A-60000rpm-Water-cooled-Spindle-Motor-Inverter-Bracket-Pump-Pipe-/201181743203?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
[07:53:44] <just_pink> I don't like the water cooling
[07:53:54] <_methods> well at that rpm you better
[07:54:05] <_methods> heat doesn't care what you like
[07:54:07] <just_pink> I just want to make a pcb..
[07:54:18] <fenn> that's a 3kW spindle, way overkill for PCB
[07:54:47] <_methods> < just_pink> where i can get 60K spindle?
[07:55:00] <_methods> no mention of pcb anywhere in there
[07:55:15] <fenn> oh it's actually 300W
[07:56:23] <just_pink> do you think that there is much different in the results between 10 to 30 deg the V-shaped end mill?
[07:56:37] <_methods> definitely
[07:56:51] <_methods> one is much more sensitive to variations in z height
[07:56:54] <just_pink> what make better pcb?
[07:57:06] <LeelooMinai> Fab order? :)
[07:57:10] <_methods> a lot depends on how accurate your machine is
[07:57:37] <LeelooMinai> Nowadays PCBs from China are so cheap that milling makes only sense for very limited cases.
[07:57:38] <Loetmichel> the watercooled spindles are niot much fuss
[07:58:14] <Loetmichel> you SHOULD however use some poison in the water circuit... i thought 50% water 50% car coolant would be sufficient
[07:58:17] <Loetmichel> i was wron.
[07:58:40] <_methods> yeah bactericidal is important
[07:58:42] <Loetmichel> ... and then triend to blow the gunk out with 8 bar compressed air... BIG fail ;-)
[07:58:51] <just_pink> but for now I'm going to use the 1K spindle..
[07:59:04] <Loetmichel> BIG mess in the shoß
[07:59:06] <_methods> good idea
[07:59:22] <just_pink> so this?
[07:59:23] <just_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-3-175mm-Engraving-Carbide-PCB-Bits-CNC-Router-Tool-10-Degree-0-2mm-/261571210940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce6dbeebc
[07:59:24] <Loetmichel> (the hose detached from the pump and emptied itself into the room, dancing around ;.-)
[07:59:37] <_methods> i use .5mm endmills for cutting pcbs
[08:00:03] <Loetmichel> i use 2.0mm for cutting, 30°V bits for engraving and the approbiate drills
[08:00:04] <_methods> i just design around larger traces for milled pcbs
[08:00:10] <Loetmichel> al in tungsten carbide of course
[08:00:16] <_methods> well not traces isolation
[08:00:58] <Loetmichel> hmm, you can do qfp32 nicely with a chionese mill
[08:01:38] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXxjT4nNxg
[08:02:00] <Loetmichel> works out pretty nicely: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14507&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[08:02:05] <fenn> is voronoi isolation paths a common practice among hobby pcb etchers these days? http://groups.csail.mit.edu/drl/wiki/index.php?title=Visolate:_Voronoi_Toolpaths_for_PCB_Mechanical_Etch
[08:02:06] <_methods> moving right along
[08:02:34] <fenn> not removing any more copper than needed
[08:02:38] <_methods> you need airblast Loetmichel
[08:02:39] <_methods> lol
[08:03:00] <just_pink> Loetmichel: this is amazing job
[08:03:25] <Loetmichel> itsd a simple chinses CNC6040 with a watercooled 800W spindle which dies 24krpm
[08:03:29] <Loetmichel> works nicely
[08:03:36] <just_pink> please what cutting bit you using for that?
[08:04:30] <_methods> he said 30deg v i believe
[08:04:43] <_methods> < Loetmichel> i use 2.0mm for cutting, 30°V bits for engraving and the approbiate drills
[08:04:52] <Loetmichel> just_pink: http://www.sorotec.de/shop/Cutting-Tools/Routing-Tools/V-Router-Bit/V-Router-Bit-30-.html
[08:05:41] <Loetmichel> _methods. airblast? for what?
[08:05:52] <_methods> for all that copper
[08:07:02] <Loetmichel> thats ok like it is
[08:07:21] <Loetmichel> you DONT want to have the glass fibre sdust flying all around the wiorkshop ;-)
[08:07:41] <_methods> vacuum
[08:07:43] <_methods> lol
[08:07:59] <Loetmichel> afair its cancerogen
[08:08:08] <Loetmichel> so better dust it up afterwards
[08:08:26] <Loetmichel> s/dust/vacuum
[08:08:41] <just_pink> I can't find tham on amazon / ebay :(
[08:08:48] <Loetmichel> what?
[08:08:50] <Loetmichel> the bits?
[08:09:03] <MrFluffy> just_pink, have you considered freezing your block of foam to machine it?
[08:09:04] <Loetmichel> order them 8in germany, sorotec isnt that expensive;-9
[08:09:42] <just_pink> There is no shipping module available.
[08:09:47] <just_pink> for USA!
[08:09:55] <Loetmichel> i am sorry then
[08:10:35] <just_pink> I want to play with cryogenic machining
[08:10:36] <Loetmichel> sorotec is only 280km from me so i could call the boss and ask him if he intends to ship to us
[08:11:01] <Loetmichel> just_pink: i did do some case foam a while ago
[08:11:15] <just_pink> but my husband doesn't like the idea
[08:11:32] <Loetmichel> soaking it with water and then putting it int he freezer works surprisingly well to do little and precise foam inserts with a milling machine ;-9
[08:11:43] <just_pink> I't is almost like solid wood.
[08:11:59] <just_pink> the "foam" is just the name.
[08:12:32] <Loetmichel> oh, its hard foeam then, not soft foam?
[08:12:40] <MrFluffy> have you tried lots of spindle rpm like wood then?
[08:13:08] <just_pink> I think I need o flute for that
[08:14:09] <MrFluffy> I made a aux spindle carrying bracket on my mill and put a laminate trimmer on it for wood/engraving work, programmed the offset to the spindle in the carousel and away I went
[08:14:22] <MrFluffy> all just standard stuff, but lot better results than trying to get a bridgeport up past 2000 rpm
[08:15:43] <MrFluffy> I span the stock motor to 3000 rpm at the spindle and the noises made me want to hide from it, laminate trimmer at 20,000rpm with tiny two flute slot drill lot less scary
[08:17:23] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/6oZc1NA.png
[08:17:39] <just_pink> 2 flute end mill 1000rpm
[08:18:29] <archivist_herron> was it a new sharp endmill
[08:18:56] <lair82> Good Morning Guys, how do I search the irc archive for a conversation I had a few months ago?
[08:19:29] <archivist_herron> depends which archive :)
[08:19:44] <just_pink> new from the box
[08:19:51] <archivist_herron> google and its base url
[08:22:26] <MrFluffy> it looks melted rather than cut, maybe freezing it will help with that, not sure
[08:23:28] <fenn> just_pink: try climb milling and lower rpm
[08:23:45] <just_pink> climb for plastics?
[08:24:22] <fenn> actually 1000 is fine, but the idea is to have a thicker chip so it fully separates instead of making stringy fluff that sticks around
[08:24:29] <archivist_herron> climb for best finish if machine is up to it
[08:24:57] <Loetmichel> just_pink: what IS that stuff?
[08:25:18] <Loetmichel> do you have a link to te material supplier?
[08:25:39] <just_pink> press fit spider for probe
[08:26:18] <fenn> did you lose a few steps and get misaligned?
[08:26:28] <_methods> what machine are you trying to do this on first of all
[08:27:07] <just_pink> I think it wasn't clamp right.
[08:27:20] <_methods> can you take a picture of your machine and work holding?
[08:27:38] <archivist_herron> backlash compensated?
[08:27:44] <_methods> if those things aren't right no amount of messing with tooling will make it right
[08:28:43] <just_pink> I make it at the end from acrylic
[08:30:22] <lair82> archivist_herron Thanks, I found what I was looking for.
[08:36:31] <just_pink> Loetmichel: http://i.imgur.com/ItoopN5.png
[08:37:29] <Loetmichel> 3d touching device?
[08:37:39] <Loetmichel> whats that called in english?
[08:37:53] <Loetmichel> and why do you use foam to make the enclosure?
[08:38:08] <_methods> probe in english
[08:38:16] <_methods> touch probe
[08:38:21] <Loetmichel> 3d probe, right, thx
[08:38:47] <just_pink> probe or digitizer
[08:38:54] <Loetmichel> i would make the enclosure for it out of alumonium in the lathe
[08:39:15] <Loetmichel> and then the centerpiece out of glass fibre reinforced PC
[08:39:20] <just_pink> I dont have a lathe :(
[08:39:55] <fenn> why does it need an enclosure?
[08:40:09] <just_pink> to press the spring.
[08:40:11] <Loetmichel> fenn: to fix it to the spindle
[08:40:33] <fenn> can't you just use standoffs from the pc board and a plate on top?
[08:40:45] <just_pink> i want to make it datron style..
[08:40:58] <just_pink> no
[08:41:13] <just_pink> one sec i will show you the cad
[08:41:49] <fenn> http://www.datron.com/images/accessories/probes/Datron_CNC_Probe.jpg like this?
[08:42:53] <Loetmichel> usually theyx have a precision shaft at the back to fit into the spindle
[08:43:15] <fenn> i think the benefit of the datron system is mostly the software that compensates for warped stock
[08:43:26] <Loetmichel> i dont think standoffs would be rigid enough
[08:43:33] <Loetmichel> thatrs a precfision measurement tool after all
[08:43:46] <fenn> yes the pcb part would flex
[08:44:33] <LeelooMinai> UNless you use some kind of negative air pressure bed
[08:44:33] <fenn> but you could put something like a washer under the pcb to make it stiffer i guess.. bleh
[08:45:22] <just_pink> fenn: yes with the cuuuute arm
[08:45:28] <just_pink> love it!!
[08:45:33] <just_pink> soo cute
[08:45:43] <fenn> i am a fan of kinematic design so i would put the standoffs as close to the 6 ball bearings as possible
[08:45:50] <fenn> then there would be minimal flex
[08:46:03] <fenn> also it would be an octahedron :P
[08:47:15] <just_pink> not good
[08:47:42] <just_pink> you need it self alignment
[08:48:01] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/YYGQBdS.png
[08:48:05] <just_pink> fenn: ^
[08:48:27] <just_pink> the plate on the tom is for calibration
[08:48:31] <just_pink> top*
[08:49:47] <fenn> i dont understand the plate on top
[08:51:39] <just_pink> there is a ball bearing in the middle and 3 screws around it. with that you can get very acurate centering calibration.
[08:52:02] <just_pink> on real probe the tip is ruby ball.
[08:52:47] <LeelooMinai> Maybe the screws on that picture show go from top of the plate or something
[08:52:52] <LeelooMinai> show=should
[08:53:19] <fenn> is it just to adjust the zero position, like a tripod? or a gun scope?
[08:53:20] <just_pink> I didnt put the calibrationn screws yet..
[08:53:21] <LeelooMinai> Because as it is now the plate just sits on one ball
[08:53:54] <LeelooMinai> Right, ok, so this is without screws - with screws it makes sense
[08:53:56] <fenn> i think you will need to have 2 screws and 1 spring
[08:54:13] <MrFluffy> the shaft that comes down, why not make it threaded to take standard probe tips?
[08:54:37] <MrFluffy> then you can replace the ruby with whatever shape/size makes sense to match the job
[08:55:02] <MrFluffy> sometimes its handy to have a long extension to get the ruby deep into a part etc
[08:55:38] <fenn> also i think calibration is better done in software than with screws. numbers never come loose or change over time
[08:55:51] <trentster> Howdy all - I am thinking about taking my machine apart and rebuilding it with some improvements - I am currently using 100x10mm flatbar for the gantry uprights with 3x 30x60 aluminium extrusions for the cross braces. I am getting quite a lot of chatter and thinking this may be due to gantry uprights being too thin and possibly only having 1 x Y stepper in the middle of a large span 820mm wide.
[08:55:58] <trentster> any suggestions or advice?
[08:56:22] <LeelooMinai> btw, how does this thing actually detect the shaft moving out of place?
[08:56:29] <MrFluffy> fenn, better to calibrate once per session or probe joint change, and thats best stored in software
[08:57:01] <fenn> LeelooMinai: when the central spider is bumped, one of the three legs will lift off of the ball bearings, interrupting the flow of electricity through the segmented circuit board ring
[08:57:08] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/sgF7ScO.png
[08:57:48] <just_pink> now it with the screws
[08:57:59] <LeelooMinai> fenn: A, I see, neat
[08:57:59] <just_pink> it's*
[08:58:13] <fenn> just_pink: you need a spring under one of the screws because it's over-constrained
[08:58:16] <_methods> trentster: you got a pic of your current setup
[08:58:53] <fenn> a lock washer might work
[08:58:56] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/yXWR8ydq1eNes389UahhWiCV1GXJNa
[08:59:04] <MrFluffy> reminds me of this... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:721620/
[08:59:20] <just_pink> fenn: I will put a spring under all of tham just in case..
[08:59:36] <trentster> _methods: the wood z axis has been replaced now with the 160 x 12mm flatbar you see highlighted in the picture.
[08:59:47] <LeelooMinai> trentster: There's something out of place on that picture:)
[09:00:03] <LeelooMinai> O, I know... wooden z-axis:p
[09:00:04] <trentster> I cut the aluminium with the machine itself albeit very slowly and with a ton of cutting oil ;-)
[09:00:18] <just_pink> trentster: are you crazy!!! cnc near to the clean landroray?
[09:01:05] <trentster> just_pink: that was during the setup stage - its now in the garage (wife wanted her dining room table back :P)
[09:01:49] <just_pink> MrFluffy: it's same idea.
[09:02:08] <MrFluffy> I printed that off, but I was going to make the lid from aluminium instead of printing it out
[09:02:33] <just_pink> I need a 3d printer..
[09:02:35] <MrFluffy> and change the probe to take metric probe threads
[09:03:03] <just_pink> m3
[09:03:21] <MrFluffy> so I can use reinshaw rubies on it, save buying more
[09:03:57] <MrFluffy> they come in a couple of sizes when your buying, just to watch out
[09:04:19] <MrFluffy> I have one where I *didnt* check that detail that is lying unused in my inspection drawer...
[09:04:24] <just_pink> I want the shoes!!
[09:04:25] <trentster> here is another picture with a different perspective http://monosnap.com/image/15OguNBl0sk8MMYspK7OvS1fkNCvOM
[09:04:31] <just_pink> thay sooo cool
[09:04:48] <fenn> trentster: i suggest modeling it in cad and do FEM to see where flexing is.. if you just want a quick fix, try bolting some weights to the z axis
[09:05:04] <fenn> or there might be some actual slop somewhere in the system
[09:05:18] <trentster> fenn: I have got it in sketchup - don't know what a FEM is?
[09:05:43] <fenn> put a dial indicator and push on it to see how far it moves; if the movement is proportional to the force you apply then it's flexure, but if it's a constant amount then it's slop
[09:05:52] <fenn> put a dial indicator in the spindle*
[09:06:02] <skunkworks> fenn: !
[09:06:49] <trentster> I dont think its slop
[09:06:52] <fenn> FEM is finite element analysis, a technique that is used to simulate flexing in solids (and other things like heat transfer etc)
[09:07:09] <just_pink> https://qmarkmfg.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ad.jpg
[09:07:12] <fenn> hi skunkworks
[09:07:12] <just_pink> I want it!!!
[09:07:21] <trentster> fenn: sounds like I would need an engineering degree to do that
[09:07:31] <trentster> :P or some stronger CAD FU
[09:07:44] <just_pink> https://qmarkmfg.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/liz-copy.jpg
[09:07:57] <just_pink> https://qmarkmfg.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/lizman-copy.jpg
[09:08:03] <LeelooMinai> fenn: I did it once (put a dial indocator in the spindle,) and by accident turned it on at 10k RPM...
[09:08:29] <MrFluffy> but isnt the model wearing the stainless ball probe heels not the ruby? :)
[09:08:30] <greg__> one time use like that
[09:08:39] <fenn> the ruby looks photoshopped
[09:08:55] <just_pink> it is photoshoped
[09:08:58] <_methods> trentster: are you moving your entire gantry?
[09:09:10] <just_pink> but thy make it becaus it's soo cool.
[09:09:13] <_methods> that's why you had to use such narrow spread on your rail bearings
[09:09:30] <Rab> trentster, I think rather than thicker plates, you could just add a simple verticle rib outside each plate and it would stiffen the legs quite a bit.
[09:09:44] <just_pink> this is the artical about it
[09:09:45] <just_pink> https://qmarkmfg.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/oh-those-shoes/
[09:09:58] <Rab> trentster, so the legs are a T-shape rather than a flat bar.
[09:10:19] <_methods> you could use c-channel instead
[09:10:22] <_methods> easier to source
[09:10:46] <fenn> "these shoes aren’t made for walkin’"
[09:10:55] <just_pink> :(
[09:11:11] <MrFluffy> imagine the micro burnishing on all the places you visit...
[09:11:14] <trentster> Rab: yeah I was thinking of adding ribs. At the moment there is no legs the machine rests on the fron and back 100x10mm flatbar directly on the table
[09:11:16] <_methods> are you putting that probe on those shoes so you can tell when you are going to fall over
[09:11:17] <LeelooMinai> It's like a car that is not made for driving
[09:11:40] <Rab> s/verticle/vertical
[09:12:20] <just_pink> but any high heel shoes don't made for walking.
[09:12:37] <MrFluffy> LeelooMinai, I'd say that was the thinking behind some of the custom cars/bikes then?
[09:12:41] <Rab> Right now the only constraint in the Y-axis direction is the stiffness of the plate, and that plate will flex.
[09:12:50] <trentster> Rab: _methods I have quite a bit of spare aluminium extrusion that I took off an aluminium door - the part that sorrounds the glass - they are about 80mm wide and about 16mm thick - you think that would work as Ribs?
[09:13:07] <trentster> I have a ton of it like 20 meters I would guess
[09:13:11] <_methods> well it would probably be an improvement over a flat plate
[09:13:15] <trentster> I was thinking of using it for the table
[09:13:16] <Rab> trentster, sure!
[09:13:33] <just_pink> trentster: how bgand noisy is the spindle?
[09:13:46] <trentster> So you think building a box for each side of the gantry is overkill?
[09:14:00] <just_pink> how big*
[09:14:15] <_methods> well i think for max rigidity on that design i'd have a stationary gantry
[09:14:19] <_methods> and move the bed under it
[09:14:25] <trentster> just_pink: the spindle is pretty silent but its only 400W it has its own 48V power supply - I know I need something beefier
[09:14:40] <Rab> trentster, conceptually, a box is just two plates and two ribs. Of course it will be more rigid than a T-shape.
[09:14:46] <just_pink> brashed?
[09:15:22] <Rab> But the ribs are a simple experiment you can try without much work.
[09:15:43] <fenn> i agree adding ribs to the uprights would help
[09:15:46] <trentster> just_pink: its a ebay fong kong special http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-400W-Brushless-Spindle-Motor-ER11-Mach3-PWM-speed-controller-Mount-PSU-/141667011434
[09:15:51] <_methods> but probably any sord of added support will improve over what you have now
[09:16:05] <_methods> s/sord/sort
[09:16:23] <MrFluffy> isnt it the rule if you have to ask if increasing rigidity and mass is a good idea, you dont have enough :)
[09:16:26] <Rab> _methods, I favor stationary gantry. But it'll immediately halve his work area.
[09:16:31] <_methods> yes
[09:16:42] <_methods> you sacrifice envelope for rigidity
[09:16:49] <_methods> it's always some trade off
[09:17:12] <just_pink> trentster: thanks
[09:17:26] <just_pink> I think it will be over kill for pcb,,
[09:17:42] <_methods> it's perfect for pcb
[09:18:00] <trentster> _methods: also I have a sneaky feeling that because I measured and drilled the wholes manually for the gantry plates in the begenning on the drill press they may not be 100% perfect. I guess you really need a cnc machine to make a decent cnc machine.
[09:18:51] <_methods> it should be alright if you designed to allow adjustment
[09:19:01] <trentster> heh ironically - altho I plan to make some pcbs on it at some point , up till now I have been cutting 95% of the time aluminium
[09:19:02] <_methods> that's what bolts and clearances are for lol
[09:19:21] <just_pink> _methods: but 100W it's also perfect..
[09:19:39] <_methods> heh whatever makes you happy is perfect
[09:19:53] <fenn> go back to art school :P
[09:20:10] <fenn> bolt holes are not for alignment; that's what dowel pins are for
[09:20:11] <trentster> yeah I landed up having to make certain holes bigger to get the screws to thread perfectly
[09:20:50] <just_pink> I want something small so i can fit it into the r8 collet, and use the quill
[09:21:00] <_methods> who said alignment?
[09:21:16] <fenn> well, he was talking about bolt holes not being perfect, but that shouldn't matter at all
[09:21:23] <trentster> so back to the ribs - do they have to be in a T shape or can I simply add flat aluminium extrusions flat surface to flatsurface against flatbar and secure them with screws through both?
[09:21:56] <Rab> trentster, they should be at right angles.
[09:21:56] <_methods> you mean like stack 2 flat plates together?
[09:21:58] <just_pink> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Useful-Nail-Art-Electric-Manicure-Toenail-Pedicure-Drill-File-Trim-Care-Kits-Tip-/131000616544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e803ec660
[09:22:07] <trentster> _methods: yeah
[09:22:21] <_methods> i think personally you could add a triangle shaped gusset to the top corners to gain a significant improvement
[09:22:32] <_methods> you might lose some travel
[09:22:40] <fenn> trentster: you want it to look more like a C-channel or a box for maximum rigidity
[09:23:01] <trentster> _methods: do you have an e.g. pic of what a triangle shaped gusset is? sorry I am a newb this is the first thing I have ever built
[09:23:16] <_methods> at the very top of your gantry
[09:23:22] <_methods> put a triangle shaped cap on there
[09:23:34] <_methods> attaching your back plate to the side plates
[09:23:49] <Rab> trentster, otherwise you're just thickening the plate, using two plys which aren't bracing each other. The only way plate one stiffens plate two is through the bolt clamping force, and that won't be enough to prevent movement.
[09:23:59] <fenn> _methods: wouldnt that interfere with the work volume?
[09:24:04] <_methods> yes it would
[09:24:05] <trentster> aah ok yeah I gotcha - like the special 80/20 corner braces they sell
[09:24:08] <_methods> i said that earlier
[09:24:12] <_methods> yes
[09:24:23] <_methods> you may lose some work envelope
[09:24:49] <_methods> personally i'd make the side plates out of c-channel and add that gusset to the top corners
[09:25:14] <_methods> cheap and effective mod
[09:25:20] <trentster> thanks I am not too perturbed about losing a bit of work area if I gain rigidity and reduction in chatter
[09:25:37] <Rab> _methods, this would look goofy, but you could use a bowtie shape to A) form the top gusset, and B) strengthen the lower arm without impinging on the work area.
[09:25:41] <trentster> _methods: nothing is cheap in Australia
[09:26:03] <Rab> The lower extent of the gusset would be outside the upright.
[09:26:21] <_methods> yeah taht would be worth trying
[09:26:42] <_methods> i'm sure there are plenty of ways you could do it to not affect work envelope
[09:27:14] <trentster> do you guys have a visual e.g. link to what you are talking about - I am a bit lost?
[09:27:34] <just_pink> this is look very powerfull and tiny!
[09:27:35] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNZB7A9wZtU
[09:27:38] <_methods> sure let me draw something up real quick
[09:27:49] <trentster> thanks mate!
[09:28:40] <MrFluffy> just_pink, the spindle bearings potentially will be terrible for adapting to precision purposes
[09:29:15] <just_pink> :(
[09:29:37] <just_pink> MrFluffy: you have any idea?
[09:30:19] <MrFluffy> besides the laminate trimmer I use a air powered dentists drill as a high speed precision spindle, it has nice bearings in but needs the compressor on as a source
[09:31:29] <trentster> guys here is another pic that shows what is going on under the table - not sure if the extrusions I am using may be either too small or should be running the other direction http://monosnap.com/image/qPcJ1Dc51TkTfoBlOBS2ul3x50rt3N
[09:31:50] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wam_zQgQL7g
[09:32:02] <just_pink> this is looks nice,,
[09:32:13] <trentster> btw that is an old pic - I have made the supported rail bearings blocks further apart since I took that photo
[09:32:38] <MrFluffy> is there anything connecting the end plates to the ends of the linear rails?
[09:33:19] <MrFluffy> precision spacer, drill tap, fire fastener in from end plate? in addition to the gussets under discussion
[09:33:30] <_methods> one sec trentster
[09:33:33] <_methods> work
[09:34:49] <trentster> MrFluffy: the extrusions are tapped M8 and screws go through end plate to them
[09:34:56] <trentster> thats it
[09:34:57] <just_pink> It's look like the there is some flex on the box of the X axis,
[09:35:09] <ssi> morn
[09:35:25] <just_pink> moning..
[09:35:58] <Rab> trentster, http://reboots.g-cipher.net/gusset.png
[09:36:24] <MrFluffy> trentster, I mean, your anchoring the gantry to the uprights in one plane, if you connected the rail ends to it somehow, that would be a little extra rigidity for the uprights in another plane
[09:36:30] <trentster> MrFluffy: http://monosnap.com/image/S3NHOJ6WZyOTLal1fvqKSVrmgsN2Tu
[09:36:38] <Rab> Turned out less like a bowtie than I expected.
[09:37:02] <trentster> MrFluffy: oh yeah I get you now
[09:39:10] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/uRXL5pCbP33QyLTg2awwxTRfYKds9k thats how its currently connected but - yeah some triangular side bracing there would probably help
[09:39:15] <just_pink> how this thing work??
[09:39:16] <just_pink> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eCsngVlKso
[09:39:31] <trentster> Rab: thanks
[09:40:46] <_methods> trentster: http://www.3dfile.io/bqIYVf
[09:40:50] <_methods> there ya go
[09:40:51] <_methods> like that
[09:40:55] <_methods> is what i'm suggesting
[09:40:59] <just_pink> do you think that will be useful for pcb?
[09:41:48] <trentster> _methods: thanks!
[09:41:54] <_methods> yeah np
[09:42:25] <trentster> _methods: so your design there would call for me to replace the current flatbar entirely and use uchannel
[09:42:26] <_methods> obviously you could make those gussets better
[09:42:38] <Rab> trentster, is that a pair of linear bearings at the bottom of the upright? Or a single bearing?
[09:42:38] <trentster> or add uchannel to the existing?
[09:42:42] <_methods> yeah that's what i'd do to do it cheaper
[09:42:51] <_methods> you could just bolt it to the existing
[09:42:51] <trentster> Rab: its a pair
[09:42:56] <_methods> and that would stiffen it
[09:43:08] <trentster> but they are now spaced further apart like so
[09:43:50] <Rab> trentster, if you're going to undertake a radical rebuild, I would spread those apart for more gantry rigidity. It would eat up a little of your work envelope, but not a lot.
[09:43:53] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/b2oGoRr43BaxT8HM8t9XARjAybVoOC
[09:44:04] <_methods> yeah i'd spread the bearings also
[09:44:11] <Rab> Oh yeah, much better.
[09:44:17] <trentster> more than they currently are/
[09:45:06] <Rab> Shrug, leg flexibility seems like the bigger issue at this point.
[09:45:42] <_methods> i agree
[09:45:56] <_methods> i'd add some gussets going down to the bearings also
[09:46:42] <Rab> Except for that detail the machine looks pretty solid, especially for a first effort. Were you working from plans, or did you design it from scratch?
[09:46:48] <archivist_herron> webs all the way down the leg
[09:47:00] <trentster> Thanks guys I will try and look at sourcing some gussets tomorrow - what thickness you reckon I should try and find?
[09:47:15] <_methods> 10mm?
[09:47:25] <_methods> not sure what's easy to source for you there
[09:47:38] <_methods> but i'd stick with stuff that is normal "size" for your area
[09:48:00] <Rab> trentster, you might be able to cut it from plate you have on hand.
[09:48:32] <_methods> you have a machine shop nearby?
[09:48:42] <CaptHindsight> what is it about kids that always want to reinvent the wheel?
[09:48:44] <trentster> gonna have a look now. so the connection to the ballscrew under the table is ok? I can leave that in place without further strengthening or should I add triangle brackets to all 90 degree plate connections anyway?
[09:48:47] <_methods> if you bring them beer or food they will often let you dig through their scraps
[09:49:48] <_methods> well if you have a corner and you can add a gusset to it, it probably wont' hurt
[09:49:48] <CaptHindsight> why do some people think that Linuxcnc is a barrier to a machine design since it requires a PC vs a single board computer with a micro?
[09:50:19] <trentster> _methods: no I dont have a machine shop nearby afaik - I do have a hacksaw and a metal abrasive chop saw in the garage but it makes horrible cuts - I could ask the extrusion place to cut the door extrusions for me - they charge I think $4 a cut - not a biggie
[09:51:09] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I will try to answer for myself: I've found PC hardware to be very failure-prone over the years.
[09:52:04] <_methods> yeah i see pc based as a bonus
[09:52:12] <_methods> it lets me save a pc from the scrap yard
[09:52:18] <Rab> So you pick out the perfect low-latency motherboard, build a machine, etc etc, then it falls over dead after two years in a hot shop. And you plug in the spare machine you prudently bought in tandem, and it won't boot. Then you have another goddamn PC troubleshooting problem.
[09:52:22] <_methods> especially since linuxcnc will run on most anything
[09:53:09] <ssi> I mostly agree with Rab
[09:53:18] <Rab> An SBC which doesn't need active cooling etc starts to look like a big win.
[09:53:25] <skunkworks> then you get another motherboad... :)
[09:53:30] <ssi> if we get to the point where there's a good singleboard computer that'll run linuxcnc with some attached mesa hardware, I think we'd be in great shape
[09:54:04] <CaptHindsight> I didn't realize that people had problems with using PC's
[09:54:19] <ssi> obviously I don't think running machines with an arduino running some hacky monolithic code is a good idea
[09:54:33] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how they set them up and what hardware they chose
[09:55:05] <furrywolf> ssi: someone just took off from the local GA airport as I was by it... in << 1/4mi visbility. ah, the good ol' "aim up and hope nothing's there" plane.
[09:55:05] <Rab> CaptHindsight, you've never had a power supply die?
[09:55:06] <furrywolf> plan
[09:55:24] <ssi> furrywolf: what's the airport
[09:55:33] <furrywolf> ssi: murray field, eureka
[09:55:40] <CaptHindsight> Rab: not anything good
[09:55:45] <Rab> If you chose some random PC you had on hand, could be the motherboard/case require some semi-proprietary design you can't source. Same for miniITX systems.
[09:56:44] <CaptHindsight> I think if you always go for the lowest bid that you end up getting what you pay for
[09:56:55] <ssi> was it a Baron?
[09:57:11] <CaptHindsight> a lessen I see not often learned
[09:58:22] <Rab> CaptHindsight, a high-priced, carefully-selected custom PC is actually less competitive with a SBC.
[10:00:02] <CaptHindsight> Rab: an SBC that requires an extra IO board?
[10:00:10] <Rab> If you have a mindset that equates PC hardware with cost, trouble, and low reliability, something like Machinekit starts to look interesting.
[10:00:14] <ssi> PCs require an extra IO board
[10:00:44] <CaptHindsight> so where is the cost savings?
[10:02:07] <_methods> is there a sbc solution for linuxcnc?
[10:04:02] <ssi> nothing really adequate yet
[10:04:17] <ssi> that's kinda the point of this conversation
[10:04:23] <Rab> Not to my knowledge. I spent a bunch of time on Machinekit/BBB, then I moved to a vanilla PC with parport. I'm trying to lend some insight into my previous belief that SBC > PC. ;)
[10:04:37] <Rab> But PCs ended up the winner for me.
[10:05:52] <skunkworks> heh
[10:05:55] <_methods> lol
[10:06:21] <_methods> someone needs to make an android linuxcnc phone
[10:06:26] <_methods> i want to run my cnc from a phone
[10:06:32] <pcw_home> problem is most SBCs are not platforms but rather dev boards so have no standardization
[10:06:34] <pcw_home> and kernels just about get stable and usable and the SBC goes obsolete
[10:06:55] <Rab> Also by SBC I mean something cheap enough to be considered disposable. Mesa do have warez for PC/104, but that system is still an industrial solution with industrial pricing.
[10:07:00] <_methods> /sarcasm
[10:07:56] <pcw_home> the hot cell phone chip of the week is not a platform
[10:08:16] <ssi> the BBB would be a pretty reasonable linuxcnc platform if the performance were adequate
[10:08:28] <ssi> they've been pretty well "standardized" for a couple years now
[10:08:32] <pcw_home> 1/2 a PIII is sad
[10:08:49] <furrywolf> using an off-the-shelf mini-itx or something is probably a lot easier and cheaper.
[10:09:04] <trentster> yeah its gonna be a debate for a long time - soemthing like a grbl does work very well and has no issues with latency etc, but it has limnitations, you may use a $4 arduino but the first time you scrap a $100 piece of stock you will probably have wished you had used linuxcnc
[10:09:27] <trentster> that being said getting a system up and running with grbl is trivially easy
[10:10:00] <_methods> the lgbqt community loves grbls
[10:10:26] <trentster> lgbqt ?
[10:10:53] <_methods> http://www.lgbtqnation.com/
[10:11:08] <pcw_home> if you want a good TP and a flexible real time environment for extensions you really want access to fast FP
[10:11:20] <trentster> _methods: lol you are a devil!
[10:11:22] <_methods> hahah
[10:11:25] <_methods> indeed
[10:11:28] <ssi> lol
[10:11:38] * furrywolf is somewhere on the lgbtq scale, and doesn't
[10:11:50] <fenn> is there still no realtime kernel for ARM processors?
[10:11:58] <_methods> sorry couldn't resist gerbil joke
[10:12:02] <fenn> linux kernel i mean
[10:12:11] <CaptHindsight> preempt_rt on ARM
[10:12:29] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/for/5120173819.html can anything think of what I can use that for? that's a $$$$$ metering pump, but... just can't think of a useful use. lol
[10:12:36] <fenn> "preempt" doesn't sound very reassuring
[10:13:02] <os1r1s> pcw_home: I would think with the fpga/arm hybrid boards, there will be some better capabilities coming.
[10:13:12] <pcw_home> Preemt_RT beat the socks of off RTAI an some hardware
[10:13:15] <furrywolf> s/anything/anyone
[10:13:17] <fenn> so like 7 years ago the beagleboard was the new kid on the block and we were being promised a realtime kernel soon by the xenomai people
[10:13:23] <os1r1s> Like the Altera or Xylinx SOCs
[10:13:45] <pcw_home> most of the FPGA/ARM boards have very weak CPUs
[10:14:06] <Rab> LinuxCNC also has support for a lot of esoteric machining capabilities that may not ever make it into "desktop" projects like Grbl. E.g.: https://github.com/grbl/grbl/issues/602
[10:14:39] <fenn> i don't care if it's a "weak" cpu as long as it works reliably and with low latency
[10:14:45] <pcw_home> bad environment for extentions
[10:14:54] <furrywolf> I wouldn't consider spindle synchronized movement to be an esoteric feature.
[10:15:00] <pcw_home> Yes you do (you may not know it yet though)
[10:15:06] <furrywolf> I have two spindles and plan on synchronized movement for both of them!
[10:15:16] <fenn> cartesian cnc motion control is a trivial amount of processing
[10:15:32] <DaViruz> i'm not sure i'd call spindle synchronisation esoteric
[10:15:54] <Rab> It's esoteric from the perspective of a typical Grbl user, I think.
[10:15:57] <pcw_home> not really if you have a fancy TP
[10:16:00] <ssi> fenn: despite what grbl thinks, cartesian kinematics isn't the only thing out there
[10:16:42] <skunkworks> fenn: did you hear 2.7 has a N-lookahead planner?
[10:17:13] <furrywolf> brb
[10:17:34] <fenn> yes i'm well aware of the existence of other kinematics, and also they were doing octahedral hexapod on 1990s hardware
[10:17:57] <fenn> a beagleboard blows those old computers out of the water
[10:18:24] <pcw_home> a PIII blows a BBB put of the water
[10:18:55] <_methods> lol
[10:19:41] <Rab> fenn, have you investigated Machinekit? If you don't want AXIS at >10FPS (or don't care about it at all), might work well for you.
[10:20:09] <fenn> i looked at machinekit a little bit, i was mostly disappointed that they had gone to all this trouble to fork linuxcnc
[10:20:22] <DaViruz> i found machinekits website rather unhelpful
[10:20:25] <CaptHindsight> the BBB might actually have faster rendering
[10:20:32] <DaViruz> i didn't even learn what it is
[10:20:41] <CaptHindsight> we didn't anyone using LLVMpipe
[10:21:11] <cradek> on my lathe, I use a P3 still today to run linuxcnc on wheezy
[10:21:18] <CaptHindsight> it's a few days of work to test to find out, but then again what did TI ever do for us?
[10:21:20] <cradek> it works fine, plenty of cpu
[10:21:34] <cradek> it's a little hard to find enough ram for those old machines
[10:21:55] <cradek> fenn: hey welcome back - it's been years hasn't it? hope you are well.
[10:22:07] <MrFluffy> in another window Im looking at the output from my window, and back to here people are discussing p3's as old machines :)
[10:22:07] <fenn> yes hello again, i am sort of a time traveller i guess
[10:22:12] <ssi> furrywolf: someone on VAF is selling an EJ25 eggenfellner subaru engine with mount for an RV6/7/9 for $1900
[10:22:15] <MrFluffy> output from my amiga even...
[10:24:24] <os1r1s> Can you have a button that calls an ngc file? I want a button that executes a set of gcode, not just one line.
[10:24:57] <cradek> make your one line an O-call
[10:25:20] <cradek> that's how touchy runs macros
[10:25:45] <furrywolf> if they'll include the rest of the plane too, I'll take it! :)
[10:26:00] <os1r1s> cradek: I tried to do that, but I'm getting an error. And it doesn't tell me which line
[10:26:09] <cradek> and the error is...?
[10:26:44] <cradek> first get your O-call working when you type it in as MDI
[10:28:03] <os1r1s> Let me see. 1 min
[10:28:07] <os1r1s> cradek: Thats what I was doing
[10:28:39] <furrywolf> brb
[10:28:43] <cradek> ok - I think that's the right approach - let's debug it
[10:32:32] <os1r1s> cradek: Unknown word where unary operation could be
[10:32:36] <CaptHindsight> fenn: I was just asking since some people seem to never want to use Linuxcnc for motion control
[10:32:56] <_methods> paste your code
[10:32:58] <cradek> os1r1s: pastebin the gcode
[10:34:23] <os1r1s> cradek: http://pastebin.com/ExKYEEMa
[10:35:24] <_methods> no number?
[10:35:29] <_methods> don't you need 0100
[10:35:31] <_methods> o100
[10:35:36] <_methods> you just have o
[10:37:10] <os1r1s> _methods: The manual said you could use a number or a filename
[10:37:11] <_methods> or that <pfront> is a var your calling
[10:37:16] <_methods> ahh
[10:37:37] <os1r1s> I could swap to a number, but I figured that would be more managable
[10:38:30] <_methods> i'd use a number for now
[10:39:21] <cradek> is it named pfront.ngc and you're calling it as o<pfront> call?
[10:40:33] <trentster> _methods: oh yeah I forgot to mention earlier I also have about 15M of 20x20 aluminium t-slot extrusions in the garage, any good way for me to use them for the spines instead of buying new material as per your diagram?
[10:41:18] <_methods> yeah you should be able to use those
[10:41:32] <_methods> i mean anything will be better than just that flat plate you have now
[10:42:26] <os1r1s> cradek: Its named pfront.ngc
[10:43:03] <trentster> so if I made a square box out of them the same size as each current gantry 500x100mm and then bolted it onto the plate this should behave similarly to the other spines I guess. May be not as well, but its worth a try if I have the material lying around anyway
[10:43:21] <_methods> yeah it would definitely help it out
[10:43:23] <os1r1s> cradek: It actually calls it
[10:43:47] <os1r1s> cradek: I just loaded it through file open and it says there is an issue with line4
[10:44:34] <cradek> argh
[10:44:38] <cradek> what is the actual error?
[10:46:06] <os1r1s> unknown word where unary operation could be
[10:46:13] <trentster> _methods: thanks for your help
[10:46:20] <os1r1s> cradek: Which is weird. It looks ok to me
[10:46:35] <cradek> it loads fine for me, but who knows what pastebin has done to it
[10:47:10] <os1r1s> Line 4 is just a g20
[10:47:19] <os1r1s> Nothing complicated or weird about htat
[10:47:21] <cradek> what have you edited the file with?
[10:48:41] <cradek> maybe there are characters you can't see? sometimes people edit with microsoft fronteagle and then transfer it through cloudify's floppy disk service, and they end up with a file with weasels in it
[10:48:55] <Tom_itx> copy that pastebin text and paste it into gedit or such. it looks clean to me too
[10:49:23] <os1r1s> cradek: I just rant dos2unix to see if that fixed it
[10:49:25] <Tom_itx> i just highlited the text and nothing on the end of the lines showed up
[10:49:34] <os1r1s> Same thing. Really weird
[10:49:38] <os1r1s> Trying copy/paste now
[10:49:48] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/nonissue.ngc
[10:50:09] <cradek> here's the version that loads for me, on a website that doesn't add weasels
[10:50:51] <cradek> I open that in 2.7's sim/axis, and it loads but shows nothing, as expected
[10:51:54] <Tom_itx> you got a gremlin in your keyboard
[10:54:37] <os1r1s> So I tried pastebin. That works if I open the file, but still not with the opfront call
[10:55:38] <Tom_itx> spelled correctly everywhere it's called?
[10:56:21] <os1r1s> So calling it as o100 worked fine
[10:56:25] <os1r1s> It did not work as the filename
[10:57:05] <os1r1s> I probably still have a characterset issue I'll work through. But that actually calls it now
[11:03:58] <os1r1s> So calling it as o100 worked fine
[11:04:00] <os1r1s> It did not work as the filename
[11:04:05] <os1r1s> I probably still have a characterset issue I'll work through. But that actually calls it now
[11:04:42] <_methods> go freenode lol
[11:17:07] <MrFluffy> your not lagged, just nobody is saying anything...
[11:22:23] <archivist> freenode needs some new internet string
[11:22:27] <os1r1s> cradek: Tom_itx Thanks for your help
[11:22:49] <MrFluffy> just that bit that goes off to methods I think archivist
[11:23:10] <Loetmichel> meh... smartphone+wife= detour on the way home from work. The grocerys list was "only" 2 screen pages long :-(
[11:23:39] <archivist> is that an under the thumb drive
[11:26:11] <furrywolf> next time, tell her to go shopping? :)
[11:28:51] <MrFluffy> my wife doesnt do that after I took 3 hrs to get a tin of catfood
[11:29:09] <MrFluffy> it was such a nice day, and I was on a bike... it would have been rude to take the short route right?
[11:29:51] <MrFluffy> 200+ km for catfood, to be fair, the cat did enjoy it.
[11:30:24] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: she walks on crutches
[11:30:29] <Loetmichel> that wouldnt be fair
[11:30:31] <furrywolf> ah
[11:33:19] <furrywolf> yay, I thought of a use for my fake extension cord. I got a pair of #12 cords that are actually #14+#16, and thus useless for most things I use extension cords for... but they'll be great for running a few LED lights.
[11:33:59] <furrywolf> these pissed me off enough I filed a complaint with the CPSC, as they were sold at a local hardware store.
[11:34:35] <furrywolf> they're labeled 12/3... inside is two #14, one #16, and a quarter inch of cheap rope.
[11:35:03] <Loetmichel> furrywolf: i just bought a few cheapest atx 2.0 400W supplys
[11:35:09] <robinsz> what does 12/3 mean?
[11:35:10] <Loetmichel> for 17.50€ each
[11:35:44] <Loetmichel> ... the wires to the atx plug and the molex are awg20 tops
[11:35:53] <Loetmichel> more like awg 24 ;)
[11:36:06] <robinsz> I never understood those numbers
[11:36:24] <robinsz> 24awg ... how do you convert that to mm sqaure?
[11:36:28] <Loetmichel> ant the whole unit weights less than 1/4 of a similar 400W seasonic psu we have here ;)
[11:36:46] <Loetmichel> robinsz: there are conversion tables
[11:36:51] <furrywolf> Loetmichel: I had a 400W supply once that was labeled 175W on the inside.
[11:37:08] <robinsz> what does it even mean?
[11:37:08] <furrywolf> I took it apart after it melted down.
[11:37:32] <robinsz> its like they sell here "no 6" screws
[11:37:56] <robinsz> I know "No 10" is bigger then "no 6"
[11:38:03] <Loetmichel> robinsz: IIRC it means how often the wire is pulled thru a die
[11:38:16] <Loetmichel> i.e how often it is made thinner
[11:38:23] <furrywolf> robin_: next you'll complain about sheet metal gauge, screw sizes, ammo, letter and number drill bit sizes, ... :P
[11:38:24] <robinsz> and no 4 is smaller ... but no one seems to be able to explain what it actually means
[11:38:35] <robinsz> ammo is all sensible
[11:38:51] <robinsz> letter and number drills ceased to exist 30 years ago
[11:39:04] <furrywolf> LOL
[11:39:15] <furrywolf> yes, that's why they're still for sale. because they don't exist.
[11:39:27] <robinsz> never seen one for sale, ever
[11:40:08] <pcw_home> Carbide pcb drills are very often number sized
[11:40:15] <Tom_itx> robinsz, i've got a full set of them
[11:40:17] <furrywolf> let's see, what else has gauges? body piercing jewelry, steel wool, ...
[11:40:22] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: not here in germany ;)
[11:40:23] <archivist> letter and number drills live on over the pond
[11:40:27] <furrywolf> robinsz: even harbor freight still sells them. http://www.harborfreight.com/115-piece-high-speed-drill-bit-set-with-index-528.html
[11:40:53] <Loetmichel> we are metric
[11:41:28] <Loetmichel> i just thought it would be convenient for the americans if i use "american wire gauge" instead of mm^2
[11:41:33] <Tom_itx> the simple minded need metric
[11:41:37] <pcw_home> You might think that but I'll bet your Chinese fab houses use number size drills
[11:41:44] <archivist> robinsz, and over here at cromwell tools https://www.cromwell.co.uk/SHR0250009V
[11:42:20] <Loetmichel> i could have said: the wires fit a 0,5mm^2 wire end ferrule wit some play, so i doubt they are even 0,3mm^2
[11:42:36] <Loetmichel> ... and that for a psu that can put our 35A on the 5V rail...
[11:43:18] <pcw_home> on the almost 5V rail
[11:43:31] <Loetmichel> actually: on the 5.5 rail
[11:43:35] <Loetmichel> i measured it ;)
[11:43:46] <Tom_itx> that's marginal for some parts
[11:43:47] <pcw_home> well cheaper than more copper
[11:44:13] <Loetmichel> seems that they just would up the voltages to compensate for some loss on the too small wires ;)
[11:44:17] * furrywolf mutters about china while putting red crimp terminals on a "12/3" extension cord
[11:44:58] <pcw_home> at a 12/3 "style" extension cord
[11:45:04] <pcw_home> its a
[11:45:46] <furrywolf> at what point did simply ripping people off become socially acceptable? such activity should result in a lynch mob...
[11:45:58] <robinsz> its standard practice in the USA
[11:46:48] <furrywolf> funny, every counterfeit/fake/substandard product I've gotten came from china...
[11:46:59] <MrFluffy> and the buyer for the same?
[11:47:03] <MrFluffy> who import it all?
[11:47:14] <robinsz> every time we try to order from a US supplier they try to rip us off
[11:47:26] <robinsz> how much for xxxx? oh ... $200
[11:47:31] <robinsz> what, too much ...
[11:47:36] <robinsz> oh $100 then
[11:47:36] <furrywolf> these aren't even direct imports... ACE Hardware branded extension cords.
[11:47:50] <robinsz> what? can you do it for $60 ....
[11:47:51] <robinsz> yes ,, ok
[11:47:55] <Deejay> haha
[11:48:16] <robinsz> even with regualar suppliers they do this to us
[11:48:36] <Rab> robinsz, if they'd asked $60 would you be angling for $20?
[11:48:59] <robinsz> no, we know what it costs, we just want to pay a fair price for the stuff and get good quality
[11:49:11] <furrywolf> robinsz: but, when you agree on a price, do they ship you the product you ordered, rather than a substandard or counterfeit product?
[11:49:26] <robinsz> we are long-term experienced buyers, we know what stufff should cost
[11:49:50] <furrywolf> if you order 12/3 wire from them, even if you have to haggle over the price, do you get 12/3 wire, or 16/3 wire with 12/3 printed on the outside?
[11:49:50] <robinsz> no, because mostly its bespoke stuff, like metalwork and powder coating
[11:50:45] <robinsz> we had this with a new metalworker .. orderd 500 custom 1U cases, he started out over $100 each
[11:51:09] <robinsz> we have been buying these for 10 years for less than $25 each ...
[11:51:37] <robinsz> so why start with idiot price?
[11:52:08] <furrywolf> ok, you're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm talking about shipping a substandard or counterfeit product, not the price.
[11:52:24] <robinsz> you must be american
[11:52:31] <pcw_home> I hate distributor's that do that ("whats you target price?")
[11:53:28] <robinsz> yes, I expect them to listen to the fact I tell them we are an experienced buyer and the order size ... what we want is their best, reasonable price
[11:53:30] <_methods> $0
[11:53:45] <robinsz> we reject suppliers who are two low
[11:53:48] <robinsz> *too
[11:53:49] <furrywolf> robinsz: let's say one day they decided to make the same case out of metal that was 1/4 as thick as the previous cases, but claim it was the same thickness.
[11:54:14] <robinsz> then they would be rejected at QC, we can measure metal, and its in the spec
[11:54:45] <furrywolf> I'm not talking about price, AT ALL. I'm talking about substituting inferior or counterfeit goods, failing to perform according to contract or industry specifications, etc.
[11:55:21] <furrywolf> how often have you had US companies do this, vs how often have you had chinese companies do this?
[11:55:35] <robinsz> chinese usually very good to be honest
[11:55:49] <robinsz> we buy all our bare PCB's from china
[11:55:55] <robinsz> pricing always bang on
[11:55:56] <Tom_itx> maybe when they're under contracts
[11:56:28] <robinsz> not really, china just works on a 10% margin
[11:56:49] <robinsz> fasteners, pcbs etc are fine
[11:56:54] <pcw_home> places selling wrong wire size definitely need to be called on it (thats a fire hazard)
[11:57:04] <robinsz> for sure
[11:57:10] <furrywolf> LOL
[11:57:13] <Tom_itx> their interconnects are certainly inferior to US made ones
[11:57:19] <furrywolf> the most substandard fasteners I've ever seen are from china
[11:57:27] <robinsz> seriously?
[11:57:37] <Tom_itx> absolutely
[11:57:40] <furrywolf> I got some "grade 5" bolts that seemed to be made out of pot metal... you put a wrench on them, and the bolt promptly BENDS 90 DEGREES flush to the surface.
[11:58:09] <robinsz> we buy fasteners from china all the time, typically sheet metal inserts, they are 1/2 the price of PEM
[11:58:18] <robinsz> but get this, I can buy them TODAY
[11:58:32] <pcw_home> Our best PCBs are from China (and we have been buying PCBs for > 30 years)
[11:58:42] <ssi> if a fastener isn't made in the USA and has a mil-spec number on it, I don't trust it :P
[11:58:47] <furrywolf> I've bought boxes of screws and found a non-trivial percentage of them weren't even threaded! no QC whatsoever. probably a broken die or insert or something, and no one gave a fuck, just plated and shipped them anyway.
[11:58:52] <robinsz> last enquiries I tried with PEM were out of stock and would be 3 month wait
[11:59:34] <robinsz> pcw_home, exactly, we only buy chinese PCB now, and full immersion gold, as it costs pennies extra
[12:00:20] <robinsz> since moving factory to cali, there are still some things we just cannot find at a decent price
[12:00:27] <robinsz> but, we'll get there
[12:00:41] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/worthlessscrew01.jpg THAT is what the chinese thinks of your fasteners. Note that it's even plated. They went from the threading machine, to the plating bath, to packaging, and out to export, without anyone giving a fuck that half the screws had no threads.
[12:00:44] <furrywolf> because they do not care.
[12:01:08] <robinsz> our chinese suppliers are excellent
[12:01:11] <pcw_home> we have had PCB suppliers from USA, Korea, Mexico and China and have had the least issues with Chinese PCBs (we have a good supplier for many years now)
[12:01:19] <robinsz> yep, same
[12:01:35] <ssi> there are plenty of excellent chinese vendors
[12:01:46] <ssi> but there are a lot of crap too, and the crap ones are UNBELIEVABLY bad
[12:01:49] <pcw_home> you need to find them
[12:02:01] <ssi> unfortunately most people go to china for the price
[12:02:08] <ssi> and if you push the price too hard, you invariably end up with crap
[12:02:15] <robinsz> we havent tried built up boards from china, we do all our SMT in house
[12:02:18] <Rab> robinsz, I can't make any apologies for these people, but it's possible that $200 is profitability and $60 is operating at a loss to keep their employees working. Manufacturing in the US isn't getting any cheaper--quite the opposite.
[12:03:10] <robinsz> Rab, but if I have been buying the same piece of metalwork in the UK for say, $50 for years ...
[12:03:56] <robinsz> there are good suppliers in the USA for sure ...
[12:04:29] <robinsz> but you have to work hard to find them
[12:04:47] <pcw_home> I can't even remember when we have had a PCB issue
[12:04:52] <furrywolf> of course, with the unthreaded screws, who knows if there even was any broken equipment. could be they wanted to get a batch out sooner, and realized they could ship them that day if they just skipped a few steps of the process, and willfully dumped a bucket of defective screws into the packaging machine. because they do that.
[12:05:45] <robinsz> I seen your PCB's they look excellent, our guys in Cali looked at the board before they sent it on to me in UK and were impressed
[12:06:14] <pcw_home> Yeah we are really happy with our supplier (Suntak)
[12:06:27] <robinsz> they stuff the boards or supply bare?
[12:06:32] <furrywolf> and on a completely unrelated fastener issue... why the hell do slotted screws still exist?
[12:07:23] <archivist> because slotted still have a place, less easy to kill
[12:07:43] <Rab> furrywolf, all the alternatives have their own faults.
[12:07:54] <robinsz> ive got some DSP boards to get done soon, and I dont think our old SMT chip shooter is up to the job. it has laser alignment, but even then ... I was thinking of sending them out for smt
[12:07:57] <furrywolf> Rab: square and torx are both nice...
[12:07:59] <archivist> idiots with power drivers and the wrong bit
[12:08:01] <Rab> And what do you do when a phillips head strips out? You grind a slot in it!
[12:08:23] <pcw_home> Boards are assembled in US
[12:08:28] <robinsz> right
[12:08:58] <furrywolf> also, on fastener-related topics... you know how they make those screwheads that are a combination of slotted, phillips, and square? the local hardware store now sells bits that match them. lol
[12:09:09] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, do you supply the parts to your vendors or let them source them?
[12:09:16] <robinsz> we might give it a go, see how the machines cope. we shipped the smt stuff out from the UK and set up in cali ... its still settling in
[12:10:08] <furrywolf> http://cdn.milwaukeetool.com/~/media/Images/Accessories/Fastening/48-32-4441/60694_Light-Switch-lg.gif a special bit just for the worthless multi-head screws.
[12:11:02] <robinsz> pcb houses always want to supply parts, they make margin, but its a risk becuase they will cut corners. better to supply anything other than basic R's and C's in my opinion, and pay them a bit extra to mount them, they will still make their margin, but you get control
[12:11:18] <Rab> I know a few people who have had serious QC problems with chinese PCBA, particularly when the assy house sources the parts.
[12:11:25] <robinsz> yep
[12:11:31] <robinsz> and especially the semis
[12:11:42] <pcw_home> We kit and supply parts
[12:11:50] <robinsz> thats the way to go
[12:11:55] <archivist> we used to sirce parts for our assy house in cheshire
[12:11:58] <furrywolf> yes, they have sources for parts you wouldn't usually consider, like ones swept of the floor, or ones that cost 1/10th as much because they're not what you asked for.
[12:12:00] <archivist> source
[12:12:13] <ssi> or counterfeit ics
[12:12:16] <robinsz> yep
[12:12:32] <robinsz> they are notorious for printing any number you want on power semis
[12:12:41] <robinsz> we use a lot of mosfets ...
[12:12:45] <pcw_home> We have boards where the parts sources must be traceable
[12:13:09] <Tom_itx> mil for one
[12:13:20] <robinsz> the number of cheap chinese amplifiers we see with same part ... well, same number anyway .. that dotn perform
[12:13:20] <furrywolf> good. because when I buy a 7i76e, if there's counterfeit parts on it, I'll be most displeased. :)
[12:13:25] <robinsz> hehe
[12:13:28] <pcw_home> civilian aircraft also
[12:13:29] <Rab> Have not heard any anecdotes of the board house selling the tray of genuine ICs you sent and substituting local floor sweepings, but I'm sure that's happened once or twice.
[12:13:48] <furrywolf> Rab: more than once or twice.
[12:13:57] <Rab> furrywolf, hopefully only once per former customer.
[12:14:33] <furrywolf> Rab: except many places have the chinese doing the QC too, and don't learn until after they start getting a lot of them returned, possibly years down the road.
[12:14:45] <robinsz> oh well, better go back to work ... im already being skyped by the guys in Cali as they roll in to work
[12:15:03] <Rab> Anyway I think in small volume it's wise to send your own parts, in large volume you pretty much need to send somebody on site periodically.
[12:15:09] <robinsz> they will be going on about how sunny it is
[12:15:28] <furrywolf> robinsz: I'm in california. there's no sun here. :P
[12:15:34] <furrywolf> another foggy day
[12:15:46] <robinsz> furrywolf, it is sunny in Ventura, apparently
[12:15:52] <furrywolf> quite possible. :P
[12:16:01] <furrywolf> california has both the sunniest and the foggiest places in the nation. :)
[12:16:07] <robinsz> a little sea mist, but it clears by 9am
[12:16:16] <furrywolf> we might also have the wettest, don't remember.
[12:16:23] <furrywolf> and dryest.
[12:16:26] <furrywolf> and lowest elevation
[12:16:37] <robinsz> Ventura is pleasant, I enjoy my visits
[12:17:05] <_methods> dog yoga
[12:17:47] <Rab> furrywolf, lowest elevation is somewhat interesting.
[12:18:06] <Rab> Come And See/The Salton Sea!
[12:18:16] <furrywolf> we also have the highest elevation in the contiguous states
[12:18:39] <furrywolf> so, in one state... sunniest, foggiest, dryest, wettest, highest, and lowest.
[12:18:57] <furrywolf> just a bit of varied topography here. :)
[12:19:19] <ssi> furrywolf: which peak is that
[12:19:37] <furrywolf> Whitney
[12:19:54] <furrywolf> I think?
[12:19:57] <furrywolf> I may be forgetting.
[12:20:34] <ssi> oh wow it's only 85 miles from the lowest point too
[12:20:36] <ssi> that's hilariou
[12:21:21] <ssi> I was up about that high yesterday :P
[12:21:22] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11737830_10100730378827482_7557386777262222869_n.jpg?oh=20b59ef8f12de30068357134c1540d97&oe=561A3A92
[12:21:50] <furrywolf> I'm in the coastal northern subtropical rainforest part of the state... where we have the foggiest location in the US (and third foggiest in the world, apparantly), and the wettest. some areas here get >200" of rain a year.
[12:22:35] <furrywolf> some of the desert plains are the driest and sunniest... they like building solar power plants there.
[12:22:41] <archivist> sell the water to the dry part :)
[12:22:53] <furrywolf> archivist: do you really want to hear about how that works?
[12:22:56] <ssi> the dry part is only dry cause they keep releasing the reservoirs to the ocean
[12:23:03] <furrywolf> I could tell you quite a bit about how water here works. :P
[12:23:17] <archivist> furrywolf, long pipes, we have them in the UK
[12:23:43] <SpeedEvil> We really don't.
[12:24:07] <archivist> Wales to Birmingham is one
[12:24:17] <SpeedEvil> That's not very long
[12:24:28] <ssi> wales to birmingham, alabama
[12:24:37] <furrywolf> archivist: the short version is we don't sell the water, they take the water. and there's constant ongoing court battles over it. and then the native american tribes and involved, and the fishermen are involved (because drying up the streams prevents salmon spawning), and the farmers are involved (because food takes water and food is good), and the power companies are involved, and they're all fighting and spending millions upon millions on lawyers...
[12:24:58] <zeeshan|2> wow mt whitney has not a single tree on it
[12:25:00] <ssi> don't forget the epa
[12:25:01] <SpeedEvil> Won't somebody think of the paralegals!
[12:25:20] <furrywolf> archivist: water rights is a major ongoing issue in california
[12:25:32] <alex4nder> california is a screwed up state
[12:25:41] <alex4nder> and it's been screwed up for .. a long time
[12:26:02] <alex4nder> furrywolf: you guys need to form Jefferson with southern Oregon
[12:26:17] <SpeedEvil> 'I deserve this water, because my grandaddy got given the water by the government due to his tireless use of hookers.
[12:26:36] <furrywolf> alex_joni: agreed
[12:26:37] <furrywolf> alex4nder
[12:27:03] <furrywolf> grrr, I wish bitchx was smart enough to assume nick completion should be the most recent match that spoke...
[12:27:39] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: oh no, it goes far, far beyond that... "I deserve this water because the new city we're building in the middle of the desert doesn't have any", for example.
[12:28:12] <furrywolf> and massive government corruption, like everything else.
[12:28:49] <alex4nder> california is an example of centralized government being a tough nut to crack
[12:29:11] <alex4nder> and when you combine that with a very liberal controlling populace, it starts to look like a dystopia
[12:29:47] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/AurGBES.jpg
[12:29:52] <zeeshan|2> what are these 2 tools with the black handle
[12:29:58] <zeeshan|2> and red handle
[12:30:05] <ssi> for plugging tires
[12:30:09] <zeeshan|2> looks like some rope/wire tools
[12:30:10] <ssi> the left one is a reamer that roughs up the hole
[12:30:14] <alex4nder> the red handle is a glass cutter
[12:30:23] <ssi> the right one is a hook tool that you use to push the plug in
[12:30:34] <ssi> and yes red one is a glass cutter
[12:30:56] <ssi> the one with all the words on it is some kind of waterproof keyboard
[12:31:08] <ssi> and the other one with words on it is a calculator
[12:31:11] <furrywolf> there's also a computer keyboard and a calculator.
[12:31:12] <furrywolf> lol
[12:31:16] <zeeshan|2> rofl ssi
[12:31:37] <ssi> also I see a set of chuck jaws
[12:31:37] <zeeshan|2> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Glass_cutter.jpg
[12:31:38] <zeeshan|2> nice
[12:31:48] <zeeshan|2> those are geometric head dies
[12:32:06] <ssi> wat
[12:32:30] <zeeshan|2> some people call em chasers
[12:32:40] <zeeshan|2> http://www.rsvptooling.com/rsvpimages/geo_Image1.jpg
[12:32:50] <ssi> ahh ok
[12:33:16] <zeeshan|2> so these are going inthe garbage
[12:33:21] <zeeshan|2> !
[12:36:47] <PetefromTn_> Good lord my backyard was a JUNGLE this moring when I mowed.... I mean an absolute ordeal to get thru it with my self propelled pusher. I basically mowed the lawn three times....Now I am tired as hell.
[12:37:00] <ssi> PetefromTn_: anodizing you put on fb looks good man
[12:37:03] <_methods> good time to go anodize
[12:37:04] <_methods> lol
[12:37:17] <PetefromTn_> ssi thanks man it was ALSO an ordeal
[12:37:25] <ssi> lol how so
[12:37:57] <PetefromTn_> just had to try like umpteen different setups and screw with this chinese power supply til I almost pulled my damn hair out
[12:38:26] <PetefromTn_> I swear I almost rolled the damn shit out into the street and let a dumptruck run it over a couple times
[12:38:31] <ssi> hahaha
[12:38:38] <ssi> I wanna come up and check it out
[12:38:44] <PetefromTn_> Bring it
[12:38:56] <ssi> what color dyes do you have?
[12:38:59] <PetefromTn_> oh and bring your amazing programming mastermind with you
[12:39:06] <ssi> I never leave home without it! :D
[12:39:19] <PetefromTn_> well I bought the solvent dies in black of which I have a LOT
[12:39:29] <ssi> black is so pedestrian ;)
[12:39:30] <PetefromTn_> and I got samples of Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow
[12:39:49] <PetefromTn_> Did not have much luck with the solvent dyes so far
[12:39:58] <PetefromTn_> that part was done with RIT dye believe it or not..
[12:40:02] <ssi> hah nice
[12:40:11] <PetefromTn_> I did another one right after it that came out even better.
[12:40:15] <_methods> you try with CaptHindsight dye yet?
[12:40:27] <PetefromTn_> that is what I was originally using
[12:40:35] <PetefromTn_> and I am sure I did something wrong
[12:40:37] <_methods> yeah i know but since you get the amp right
[12:40:40] <PetefromTn_> but I had no luck with it
[12:40:57] <PetefromTn_> Oh no I have not tried it again
[12:40:58] <_methods> you havne't done one yet since you changed though right?
[12:41:09] <PetefromTn_> I need to
[12:41:12] <_methods> i would
[12:41:17] <PetefromTn_> I got a TON of that black solvent dye here
[12:41:19] <_methods> be nice not to have to use heated dye
[12:41:42] <PetefromTn_> honestly I thought that would be a PIA but we just did it on the kitchen stove in a camp pot LOL
[12:41:51] <PetefromTn_> really not a big deal
[12:42:03] <Tom_itx> until you paint your kitchen black
[12:42:24] <PetefromTn_> I WISH I could have gotten the same results with the solvent dye I liked just being able to dip it
[12:42:29] <_methods> yay got my TTS quick change tooling kit
[12:42:31] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/1uIJitA.jpg
[12:42:39] <PetefromTn_> but something about how it dries afterwards caused problems
[12:42:54] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/Wz2YfBH.jpg
[12:42:57] <PetefromTn_> _methods LOL don't tell Zeeshan
[12:43:04] <_methods> why?
[12:43:14] <PetefromTn_> He thinks they are bound to failure
[12:43:27] <PetefromTn_> I used them in my RF45 for years without issue
[12:43:36] <_methods> hahah
[12:43:37] <PetefromTn_> you just have to follow the instructions
[12:43:53] <_methods> ?
[12:43:59] <PetefromTn_> I think they are great solution for smaller machines
[12:44:01] <_methods> you mean put it in the spindle and tighten lol
[12:44:12] <_methods> doesn't look too complicated to me
[12:44:14] <PetefromTn_> No I mean cleaning the mating surfaces carefully
[12:44:15] <ssi> I was planning on using it for the g0704
[12:44:22] <_methods> yeah looks like it will work great
[12:44:23] <PetefromTn_> lubricating the collet properly
[12:44:24] <PetefromTn_> etc.
[12:44:42] <zeeshan|2> :)
[12:44:46] <PetefromTn_> There is a white paper on thier website that tells all about it I suggest you read it.
[12:44:50] <_methods> k
[12:44:52] <_methods> i'll check it out
[12:45:03] <_methods> it will be nice to be able to change tools without having to touch off
[12:45:13] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I found it quite repeatable
[12:45:31] <zeeshan|2> those tire plugging tools might actually be useful in the bush
[12:45:32] <PetefromTn_> you might have to machine your spindle face that is also in the instructions
[12:45:36] <zeeshan|2> when there is no spare tire
[12:45:39] <zeeshan|2> and you gotta gtfo
[12:45:41] <_methods> that should be easy enough
[12:45:46] <PetefromTn_> yup it is
[12:45:58] <PetefromTn_> just make sure you got a good tram going on before
[12:46:12] <PetefromTn_> Gotta go make some Hot dogs..BB in a Bit
[12:46:14] <_methods> i'll use a grinder
[12:46:23] <_methods> i have a tool post grinder i'll slap on teh table
[12:46:25] <ssi> zeeshan|2: just carry a couple cans of fixaflat :P
[12:46:35] <zeeshan|2> lol those make the rim looked like ass
[12:46:41] <ssi> yeop
[12:46:42] <zeeshan|2> and technicians swear at you during a real tire change
[12:46:43] <zeeshan|2> haha
[12:46:56] <ssi> tell the grease monkeys to cram it
[12:47:24] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/3S8znup.jpg
[12:47:29] <zeeshan|2> all extra tools
[12:47:33] <zeeshan|2> the one thing i couldnt figure out
[12:47:41] <zeeshan|2> was the round cylinder next to the caliper
[12:47:42] <MrFluffy> my dealings with chinese suppliers are excellent, until something goes wrong then I get accused of racism and all sorts
[12:47:58] <zeeshan|2> i think its an adjustment part for something
[12:48:00] <MrFluffy> ooo, bit late there robin sorry, didnt notice buffer had scrolled...
[12:48:37] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/sxuIYcj.jpg
[12:48:41] <zeeshan|2> another mystery bits set
[12:48:47] <zeeshan|2> need to get rid of this crap
[12:48:49] <zeeshan|2> taking up bench space
[12:49:01] <ssi> the top right looks like a chipbreaker holder for an insert tool
[12:49:55] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[12:49:58] <zeeshan|2> i think youre right!
[12:50:13] <zeeshan|2> but usually those arent threaded
[12:50:33] <furrywolf> the tire plug tools require having tire plugs with you. the tools aren't much good on their own. :)
[12:50:34] <ssi> yea a lot of them are
[12:51:09] <just_pink> cable drag chain - to buy or to make?
[12:51:16] <ssi> buy
[12:51:33] <ssi> I made some 3d printed chain once and it's not nearly as smooth and reliable
[12:52:15] <just_pink> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=230890&d=1396523816
[12:52:34] <just_pink> this is a solid part that someone make.
[12:53:01] <just_pink> also solid asam
[12:56:33] <MrFluffy> Im with ssi, I printed one out once and assembled each link, and wondered why I bothered..
[12:57:01] <ssi> if I had a little desktop injection molding setup, I'd make my own drag chain
[12:57:22] <_methods> where is this desktop injection molding machine lol
[12:57:33] <ssi> there was a guy at maker faire last year that had one
[12:57:36] <archivist> or use that flat strip cable printers use
[12:57:41] <_methods> the arm crank one?
[12:57:50] <ssi> this one
[12:57:50] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P7MaZUrSQQ
[12:58:10] <_methods> ah yeah
[12:58:13] <_methods> that is bad ass
[12:59:40] <_methods> they got models for all that online?
[13:00:24] <ssi> http://ashermade.com/category/mini-molder/
[13:00:25] <ssi> might
[13:04:46] <just_pink> this thing awesome (plus he is also very good looking guy)
[13:04:52] <PetefromTn_> You would have to really have a reason to build that and parts to make with it I think... Just making the molds would be an endeavor but I have no mold experience
[13:06:40] <just_pink> how I can calculate the length and the size that I need??
[13:06:57] <PetefromTn_> length and size of what?
[13:07:06] <ssi> well the size depends on the wire bundle that you intend to put through it
[13:07:18] <ssi> length will be a bit longer than your travel
[13:07:31] <ssi> if you have a 1m travel, 1200mm is probably a pretty good estimate
[13:07:40] <archivist> get enough you can use what is left as spares later
[13:07:44] <ssi> you'll fine tune the length of it when you put it together
[13:07:57] <just_pink> you will be here in 5 min?
[13:08:20] <ssi> I have a meeting in 15 min
[13:08:21] <archivist> it does break/get broken after long term use
[13:14:29] <zeeshan|2> thats a pretty rough finish for a mold!
[13:17:57] <_methods> and melt
[13:20:55] <just_pink> http://i.imgur.com/dqxBnBS.png
[13:21:14] <just_pink> this is the wires (2 black 1 gray)
[13:22:12] <just_pink> ssi: ^
[13:22:33] <PetefromTn_> what machine is that?
[13:23:37] <just_pink> cute milling machine.
[13:23:53] <PetefromTn_> heh
[13:24:00] <PetefromTn_> so this is for your Z then?
[13:24:12] <just_pink> x
[13:24:35] <just_pink> z and Y are fixed.
[13:24:39] <PetefromTn_> why do you need a cable chain for the X?
[13:25:00] <just_pink> the motor move eith the table..
[13:25:05] <just_pink> with*
[13:25:13] <PetefromTn_> 0704?
[13:25:21] <just_pink> yes
[13:25:37] <PetefromTn_> I built an RF45 CnC conversion awhile back
[13:25:57] <PetefromTn_> I just ran the wires inside surgical tubing to protect it from both abrasion and coolant
[13:26:48] <zeeshan|2> cable chain sounds like a nice place for chips to collect!
[13:27:02] <PetefromTn_> ^^
[13:27:19] <just_pink> very good point!
[13:27:48] <archivist> I use this for my steppers http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-SPIRAL-CONDUIT-TUBE-CABLE-SPLIT-TIDY-6-5MM-13MM16-MM-25MM-BY-THE-METRE-/380990137950
[13:28:11] <just_pink> no way..
[13:28:15] <just_pink> too ugly.
[13:29:04] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:29:11] <zeeshan|2> its a cnc mill
[13:29:13] <just_pink> surgical tubing sounds much more sophisticated..
[13:29:13] <zeeshan|2> its ugly to begin with! :P
[13:29:17] <archivist> fugly is how I do stuph http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_02_18_cnc/P2180014.JPG
[13:29:43] <zeeshan|2> archivist: you have a plug plugged in
[13:29:45] <zeeshan|2> with no wires coming out
[13:29:47] <zeeshan|2> whats going on there
[13:29:53] <zeeshan|2> oh its a battery charger
[13:29:54] <zeeshan|2> :)
[13:29:55] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it's a CUTE CNC mill
[13:30:10] <just_pink> hehe LOL!
[13:30:19] <PetefromTn_> :)
[13:30:23] <archivist> no battery chargers in that image
[13:30:45] <zeeshan|2> look at the back
[13:30:52] <zeeshan|2> theres something with a blue compartment in it
[13:31:25] <zeeshan|2> your pictures load so slowly in pieces
[13:31:31] <just_pink> so, where i can get those surgical tubing...
[13:31:31] <zeeshan|2> i always end up looking at something else in the pic. :/
[13:32:01] <PetefromTn_> just_pink I bought mine at Home depot
[13:32:35] <PetefromTn_> they sell some decent hose barb fittings in various angles and sizes too for reasonable prices or you can just order online of course.
[13:32:36] <just_pink> PetefromTn_: you mean to the yellow (much more ugly stuff)??
[13:32:58] <archivist> the Z is still mandraulic in that pic, reasonably early
[13:33:03] <PetefromTn_> I don't understand your question.. whats the yellow?
[13:33:10] <zeeshan|2> http://images2.cableorganizer.com/adhesive-clips-bases/images/04-abm4-corner-big.jpg
[13:33:15] <zeeshan|2> use this
[13:33:16] <zeeshan|2> it's pink
[13:33:34] <just_pink> no!
[13:33:45] <archivist> cant have pink on a cnc!
[13:33:54] <CaptHindsight> why do my text colors for Nicks group people by age? :)
[13:33:55] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[13:33:57] <zeeshan|2> that'd be something.
[13:34:21] <CaptHindsight> Hello Kitty Mill
[13:34:34] <PetefromTn_> Hello Kitty CNC mill
[13:34:37] <Rab> just_pink, run your wires through a screen door spring. Put any kind of sleeve over it if you want to keep coolant/chips out.
[13:35:35] <zeeshan|2> thats a good way to chafe your wires
[13:35:35] <zeeshan|2> ;d
[13:36:05] <just_pink> I want somthing that look nice like the stainless cable protectors.
[13:37:01] <Rab> The braided sleeving?
[13:37:01] <just_pink> http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/american/catalog/stainless-steel-braided-sleeving-foot-pla-724.php?gclid=CJrh3_va2MYCFdCRHwodG_8M-g
[13:37:09] <just_pink> yes
[13:37:11] <PetefromTn_> I honestly thought my surgical tubing routed wiring looked very Professional... and it kept them protected even in a full flood environment
[13:37:28] <archivist> this comes in various brute force sizes http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SY-Flex-3-core-10mm-Flexible-Braided-Armoured-Screened-Cable-10mm2-hookup-wire-/171099213036
[13:37:44] <just_pink> do you have a pic?
[13:38:11] <just_pink> but i need a chain for it..
[13:38:56] <archivist> you dont need a chain if guided correctly
[13:39:13] <archivist> look inside a printer or scanner
[13:39:14] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRMfJwx2Dng This is a video I made years ago that showed the stainless steel laser bent guards I designed for the RF45. You can sorta see the tubing in the base of the enclosuer
[13:39:40] <just_pink> basicllay the chain is goint to be under the table.. so chips and (no collant) don't gong to be aproblem..
[13:39:52] <_methods> oooh shiny
[13:40:07] <Rab> archivist, those typically use kapton flexPCBs.
[13:40:53] <archivist> Rab, we used to buy it in for solenoids we fitted to printers for ribbon shifting
[13:41:02] <just_pink> I like you design to the bach of the y axis
[13:41:15] <just_pink> but i made self cleaning protector.
[13:41:16] <_methods> PetefromTn_: did you ever sell any of those?
[13:41:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah it worked quite well.
[13:41:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah I sold a couple sets..
[13:41:40] <PetefromTn_> and then the place I had doing the laser cutting went belly up on me.
[13:41:45] <PetefromTn_> so I stopped offering it.
[13:41:46] <_methods> oh ouch
[13:42:02] <_methods> did you make any money selling them?
[13:42:05] <PetefromTn_> I thought it really dressed up the machine
[13:42:19] <_methods> or was it a break even thing
[13:42:19] <PetefromTn_> a couple hundred bucks here and there ;)
[13:42:21] <Rab> just_pink, e-chain is really pretty cheap: http://item.ebay.com/121645340558
[13:42:41] <_methods> hmm
[13:42:43] <PetefromTn_> the stainless sheet was THICK so it was kinda pricey
[13:42:48] <_methods> yeah
[13:42:54] <_methods> looked pretty beefy
[13:43:01] <Rab> Even the name-brand stuff is probably cheaper than time/materials to print: http://item.ebay.com/370844133205
[13:43:08] <PetefromTn_> I had them laser cut and engrave it, then bend it in a press brake
[13:43:16] <PetefromTn_> then I tig welded it here and installed it
[13:43:17] <_methods> i was just wondering if there was even any money in the hobby market
[13:43:46] <just_pink> I'm almost spent 5K on the machine,,
[13:43:48] <PetefromTn_> well honestly most people are in it to make their own stuff generally so I did not have a lot of interest really
[13:43:55] <zeeshan|2> jeez!
[13:44:00] <PetefromTn_> GASP!
[13:44:03] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[13:44:23] <PetefromTn_> I don't think I have that much in my Cincinatt VMC..
[13:44:29] <_methods> lol
[13:44:50] <just_pink> new? or used?
[13:44:54] <_methods> wtf kind of machine you got $5k in?
[13:45:04] <zeeshan|2> a 0704!
[13:45:08] <PetefromTn_> used
[13:45:13] <PetefromTn_> but with new parts!
[13:45:30] <just_pink> almost all the panel is German stuff
[13:45:35] <PetefromTn_> I'll bet it is all the pink parts....those are expensive
[13:45:47] <PetefromTn_> ;)>
[13:45:52] <just_pink> exreamly big servos..
[13:45:53] <Deejay> wb just_pink, hi pete
[13:46:02] <PetefromTn_> HEY DEEJAY!!!
[13:46:05] <just_pink> hi Deejay
[13:46:17] <PetefromTn_> BBL
[13:46:22] <just_pink> a-lot of extra parts..
[13:46:52] <just_pink> just the cupling was more than 200$
[13:47:02] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/mississauga-peel-region/cnc-lathe/1049659141?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[13:47:05] <zeeshan|2> i should pick this up
[13:47:09] <zeeshan|2> he'll take 1500 for it
[13:47:28] <zeeshan|2> 9-13/16" turning dia, 38" turning length
[13:47:33] <zeeshan|2> 2.5" spindle bore
[13:47:38] <zeeshan|2> 30 hp motor <- i dont like this
[13:47:52] <Rab> heh
[13:48:02] <Rab> "We are not expet to fix it."
[13:48:08] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:48:18] <Rab> zeeshan|2, are you expet to fix it?
[13:48:23] <zeeshan|2> i guess so!
[13:48:27] <zeeshan|2> i'd prolly rip the old controls out
[13:48:54] <zeeshan|2> wish my car was done
[13:49:00] <zeeshan|2> so i could move it in the middle of the garage , work on it
[13:49:05] <zeeshan|2> and then move it to where it needs to go
[13:49:11] <just_pink> now bring it to second floor...
[13:49:24] <PCW> wouldn't that crush your garage floor?
[13:49:43] <zeeshan|2> nahh, its only 11,000 lb
[13:49:49] <zeeshan|2> just need to distribute the weight right
[13:50:17] <just_pink> just tie it to helium balloon
[13:50:46] <zeeshan|2> here's a ta-25 not ta-25y
[13:50:50] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ccmachinetools.com/inventory/takisawa-ta-25-2-axis-cnc-lathe-1997#
[13:50:57] <zeeshan|2> looks like it uses fanuc drives
[13:50:58] <zeeshan|2> =/
[13:51:30] <just_pink> 22KWh
[13:52:06] <just_pink> not on my solar array..
[13:53:21] <just_pink> so how the size how the chain work?
[13:54:30] <just_pink> how I know that I'm order the size that will mpve nice with the wires, but not going to be too small or too big?
[13:55:27] <just_pink> ?
[14:02:24] <os1r1s> Question ... Is there a way to have linuxcnc prompt you if the appropriate tool is the mill (without calling an M0)?
[14:04:42] <FinboySlick> zeeshan|2: Looks like a little monster. You got that kind of electrical service at home?
[14:05:05] <zeeshan|2> no 3 phase, would have to convert it to run off 100A single phase 240vac
[14:06:48] <_methods> do a T call
[14:06:57] <_methods> or a M6
[14:07:08] <_methods> it will prompt you to change the tool
[14:07:11] <_methods> i believe
[14:07:52] <_methods> you could also do an option stop
[14:08:02] <_methods> and just turn off opstop when you don't want to check the tool
[14:08:57] <_methods> or block delete
[14:12:43] <FinboySlick> zeeshan|2: I assume that's more than just tweaking a VFD. You'd need an actual converter, right? Are they all mechanical at those sizes?
[14:13:13] <zeeshan|2> FinboySlick: with my last mill conversion
[14:13:20] <zeeshan|2> i just bought stuff to run off single phase
[14:13:24] <zeeshan|2> and sold all the old electronics
[14:15:58] <PCW> 30 HP is a bit different though
[14:15:58] <os1r1s> _methods: Its strange. It is throwing up a message box due to a (MSG,.....) command. When I click ok it proceeds.
[14:16:16] <os1r1s> But by deault the T4 M06 doesn't
[14:16:37] <ssi> FinboySlick: I have a vfd running my 15hp spindle
[14:16:42] <ssi> 30hp might be a bit excessive
[14:17:14] <ssi> you'd need a 60hp VFD to run it on single phase... dunno if they make them
[14:17:19] <ssi> I have a 25hp VFD for my 15hp spindle
[14:17:41] <ssi> http://www.precision-elec.com/shop/variable-frequency-drives/acs550-u1-221a-2/?gclid=CJa8zork2MYCFYsRHwodU8EFEw
[14:17:44] <ssi> only $6k ;)
[14:19:00] <zeeshan|2> are you pushing full power
[14:19:02] <zeeshan|2> through that motor though>?
[14:19:16] <ssi> no, I only have 60A service to it so I doubt I can get full rated power on it
[14:19:19] <_methods> os1r1s: what is throwing up the msgbox?
[14:19:57] <_methods> and individual M6?
[14:20:02] <_methods> s/and/an
[14:20:14] <os1r1s> _methods: Its whatever is in the gcode in the following the , . The cam is putting that out. About to test again.
[14:20:41] <_methods> paste your code
[14:21:52] <os1r1s> _methods: Ignore that. It is prompting me. There was a user issue
[14:21:54] <os1r1s> :)
[14:22:29] <_methods> kk
[14:25:32] <FinboySlick> ssi: I don't know much about VFDs. I read 'closed loop with encoder' in those specs. Does it mean they act like an AC servo controller?
[14:25:56] <ssi> yeah they can
[14:26:01] <ssi> although they're usually not terribly good at it
[14:26:02] <os1r1s> _methods: When I clicked the window I hit enter which made the box disappear.
[14:26:19] <FinboySlick> ssi: OK, so the focus is in maintaining speed/torque, not position.
[14:26:35] <ssi> yes
[14:26:57] <ssi> doing closed loop position is the hurdle that PetefromTn and I need to climb here soon
[14:27:03] <ssi> for spindle orient for our toolchanges
[14:28:20] <FinboySlick> ssi: I see. I sort of assumed that for these types of situations, the machine had a smaller servo that it could engage when a specific position is required.
[14:28:40] <ssi> nope
[14:29:17] <_methods> os1r1s: so is that the reaction you wanted?
[14:29:21] <PetefromTn_> YEAH BABY!!
[14:29:45] <FinboySlick> When you see these big DMG-MORI machines holding a lathe cutter in the spindle, then grab a standard milling cutter and spin it. I imagine they have pretty good spindle brakes ;)
[14:29:48] <_methods> PetefromTn_ wants that tool changer bad
[14:29:51] <PetefromTn_> that takisawa looks like a sweet machine. I doubt I could run it tho on my power
[14:30:04] <PetefromTn_> _methods Sure do..
[14:30:05] <os1r1s> _methods: Yep. Its working very well. I need to figure out a simulator without a realtime kernel next :)
[14:30:16] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You'll have to be rotationally challenged for a little while longer.
[14:30:30] <PetefromTn_> ?
[14:30:40] <_methods> latheless
[14:30:50] * FinboySlick was being politically correct.
[14:30:55] <_methods> lol
[14:31:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah but I am working on that..
[14:34:03] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Be a man, build your own lathe with train tracks and an old electric dam generator.
[14:34:15] <ssi> that sounds amazing
[14:34:31] <PetefromTn_> I thought I was a man.....what are all those suits and jackets doing in my closet then?
[14:34:53] <PetefromTn_> :O
[14:36:23] <_methods> coat hanger for ssi
[14:36:26] <_methods> http://www.neatorama.com/2015/07/13/Airplane-Hanger/
[14:36:45] <FinboySlick> That's pretty clever.
[14:36:46] <PetefromTn_> yup and he needs one of those propeller hats too
[14:37:07] <ssi> nice
[14:37:07] <FinboySlick> And a big sea monster named Cecil.
[14:37:36] <PetefromTn_> FinboySlick You must be smoking some good shit today man hehe
[14:37:55] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: http://animatedviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/beany11.jpg
[14:38:07] <FinboySlick> You must be too young to catch the reference.
[14:38:17] <PetefromTn_> apparently
[14:38:29] <PetefromTn_> and here I thought I was an old fart
[14:38:37] <_methods> beany and cecil?
[14:38:48] <FinboySlick> Yup.
[14:39:06] <PetefromTn_> never heard of em
[14:39:18] <_methods> it's OLD
[14:39:28] <_methods> lol
[14:40:25] <_methods> only reason i've ever seen it is because of military tv
[14:40:41] <_methods> they were like 20 years behind the rest of the world
[14:40:54] <_methods> AFRTS
[14:41:44] <PetefromTn_> I rememeber military TV we had it on base at Mclellan AFB
[14:42:37] <_methods> brain washing
[14:43:09] <FinboySlick> Well, I'm not *that* old. I guess the french translation only came out much later.
[14:43:15] <FinboySlick> I watched it in the 80s.
[14:44:10] <PetefromTn_> I watched TONS of cartoon in the 80's and don't think I ever saw that one.
[14:44:16] <PetefromTn_> of course I was just a kid
[14:44:23] <PetefromTn_> I'm 43 now
[14:44:37] <FinboySlick> Yay! I still get to call you an old fart then.
[14:44:45] <PetefromTn_> gonna be 44 in 5 days
[14:44:49] <PetefromTn_> yup
[14:44:55] <_methods> happy bday
[14:44:56] <FinboySlick> Happy birthday since I'll likely forget.
[14:45:03] <PetefromTn_> thanks guys hehe
[14:45:12] <FinboySlick> In french Canada, we had some pretty badass cartoons as kids.
[14:45:28] <FinboySlick> Obviously the people putting them on didn't actually pay attention to the story.
[14:45:41] <FinboySlick> We had a bunch of shows imported from japan.
[14:46:05] <PetefromTn_> I should fly down to Mexico with SSI and capture El Chapo and kick some cartel ass!!
[14:46:49] <FinboySlick> A lot of the characters got beat up, there were rather overt gay references. First eposiode of Keroko Demetan deals with the attempted rape of his mother, etc.
[14:46:53] <_methods> el cheapo
[14:47:40] <PetefromTn_> is it freaking anime or something?
[14:47:46] <_methods> i think i heard on the news they said they dug a 2 mile tunnel to get him out
[14:47:55] <_methods> that's a freakin LONG tunnel
[14:48:06] <PetefromTn_> yeah with AC and lights and a motorcycle to move dirt/people
[14:48:20] <_methods> man
[14:48:23] <_methods> that's impressive
[14:48:28] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Pretty much. Japanese production, comissioned by France.
[14:48:29] <_methods> our criminals here suck
[14:48:54] <_methods> you don't see them diggin 2 mile tunnels to get their buddies out around here
[14:48:56] <PetefromTn_> Those Mexican Federales are really on their game ;)
[14:49:13] <ssi> PetefromTn_: we're flying to the bahamas in two weeks
[14:49:19] <_methods> afghanistanimation
[14:49:20] <PetefromTn_> BASTARD!!
[14:49:28] <ssi> gonna take three or four planes in formation
[14:49:30] <ssi> should be a blast :D
[14:49:33] <PetefromTn_> and you're not taking your old buddy old pal
[14:49:33] <_methods> good ole johnny chimpo
[14:50:10] <FinboySlick> ssi: Yeah. Do a nice gesture. He's getting old, his chances of going to the bahamas are getting slimmer.
[14:50:13] <ssi> lol
[14:50:20] <PetefromTn_> EXACTLY
[14:50:21] <_methods> hahah
[14:50:24] <ssi> hey he can come if there's empty seats and he kicks in for fuel :D
[14:50:34] <_methods> take him before he croaks
[14:50:44] <PetefromTn_> now you see we're off to a bad start :D
[14:50:45] <ssi> right now we're actually short on PILOTS for this jaunt
[14:50:45] <FinboySlick> ssi: That and if you wait too long, he'll be too scary to allow on the beach.
[14:50:50] <ssi> we have plenty of airplanes and not enough pilots :(
[14:51:04] <PetefromTn_> hell I can fly one
[14:51:10] <PetefromTn_> I think?
[14:51:12] <_methods> that sounds like a war time problem
[14:51:15] <ssi> lol
[14:51:18] <PetefromTn_> how hard could it be?
[14:51:19] <ssi> you can fly the cherokee
[14:51:22] <_methods> lots of planes and no pilots left lol
[14:51:23] <ssi> it's insured for more than its worth
[14:51:33] <PetefromTn_> perfect
[14:51:47] <ssi> and you can probably get your family in it
[14:51:51] <PetefromTn_> you get me off the ground I'll take over from there hehe
[14:52:10] <PetefromTn_> Oh and there is that whole landing thing.....at the end....
[14:52:18] <ssi> yeah that's a thing
[14:52:22] <PetefromTn_> sure is
[14:52:23] <_methods> hahah
[14:52:29] <_methods> land in the water
[14:52:31] <_methods> it's soft
[14:52:37] <PetefromTn_> NO ITS NOT
[14:52:38] <_methods> at low speeds
[14:52:47] <ssi> soft and full of sharks :D
[14:52:51] <PetefromTn_> ever jumped from a bridge or tower??
[14:52:51] <_methods> hahah
[14:53:19] <_methods> cover your nads it'll be ok
[14:53:28] <PetefromTn_> COVER EM!
[14:54:31] <PetefromTn_> there have been TWO people killed this week alone by Pit Bulls!!
[14:55:05] <_methods> like this kind?
[14:55:07] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyLvFLoTbP4
[14:55:09] <PetefromTn_> maybe we can sick em on old El Chapo
[14:55:43] <_methods> was that el chapo
[14:55:50] <_methods> el slowpoke
[14:55:57] <PetefromTn_> LOL Ya know a video that begins with an asshole tempting a bull will end well...
[14:56:08] <_methods> a bull with horns on fire
[14:56:10] <PetefromTn_> GREAT entertainment
[14:56:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah as if just the horns was not dangerous enough
[14:56:36] <_methods> everything in mexico will set your ass on fire
[14:56:45] <_methods> the food, the bulls
[14:56:47] <_methods> lol
[14:56:55] <PetefromTn_> the hookers hehe
[14:56:58] <_methods> hayhahah
[14:57:30] <_methods> who knew bulls could climb bleachers
[14:57:44] <PetefromTn_> honestly I have been to many cities in Mexico and it really is a beautiful country. just the banditos and the goverment screws it all up.
[14:58:00] <PetefromTn_> yup he did not seem to have any trouble with those stairs hehehe
[14:59:29] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNvTHOrTf_Y LOVE this one
[14:59:49] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Give the US a few years to catch up :P I used to love going south.
[15:00:25] <PetefromTn_> heheh that guy got rag dolled
[15:00:50] <_methods> yeah he got quite a bit of air
[15:01:10] <_methods> i'm too lazy to calculate his height at peak lol
[15:01:16] <PetefromTn_> sure did...I'll bet he had to change his pants after that one
[15:01:37] <PetefromTn_> I wonder what he was thinking..
[15:01:40] <PetefromTn_> lemme see
[15:01:43] <_methods> looked like the exit area had a flaming plug in it
[15:01:47] <PetefromTn_> if I keep the tree between us
[15:01:56] <PetefromTn_> I'll be safe
[15:02:07] <PetefromTn_> surely that monster cannot move faster than me
[15:02:15] <PetefromTn_> DOH!!!
[15:02:36] <PetefromTn_> priceless....
[15:02:39] <jt-alyeska> Do any more anodizing
[15:02:51] <PetefromTn_> just the tests I did last night
[15:03:00] <PetefromTn_> I did three successful ones
[15:03:07] <jt-alyeska> Nice
[15:03:14] <PetefromTn_> did you see em?
[15:03:23] <jt-alyeska> I'm heading home today
[15:03:31] <jt-alyeska> I saw 1
[15:03:49] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/1Rjhp8u.jpg
[15:04:09] <_methods> yeah did you looks good
[15:04:09] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/NfpZDh6.jpg
[15:04:14] <jt-alyeska> Looks good
[15:04:23] <PetefromTn_> not bad for a first try
[15:04:31] <PetefromTn_> or was it tenth try?
[15:04:55] <jt-alyeska> Nothing good is easy
[15:04:58] <_methods> you did 2 passes with your chamfer too
[15:05:03] <_methods> s/too/tool
[15:05:25] <PetefromTn_> no one
[15:05:30] <jt-alyeska> Was that the rit dye
[15:05:31] <PetefromTn_> why does it look bad
[15:05:37] <Tom_itx> just jagged edged tool
[15:05:38] <PetefromTn_> yeah rit dye
[15:05:39] <_methods> no i just thought there was a blend line
[15:06:06] <_methods> might be a knick in your insert or edge
[15:06:13] <_methods> or could just be the pic
[15:06:17] <PetefromTn_> probably
[15:06:18] <ssi> I noticed the line too
[15:06:21] <_methods> makes it look like a line in the chamfer
[15:06:21] <Tom_itx> hone would probably fix that
[15:06:26] <PetefromTn_> that is a prototype
[15:06:37] <ssi> it's too much chamfer too :)
[15:06:47] <PetefromTn_> I need to get a better champfer tool
[15:06:47] <_methods> i like big chamfer
[15:06:49] <Tom_itx> i tried to tell him that
[15:06:54] <ssi> _methods: and you cannot lie?
[15:06:57] <PetefromTn_> ssi Its supposed to look like that
[15:06:58] <_methods> haha
[15:07:11] <_methods> baby got chamfer
[15:07:17] <PetefromTn_> I know it is not a STANDARD champfer
[15:07:30] <PetefromTn_> but I like a bigass champfer okay!!
[15:07:37] <PetefromTn_> makes me feel cool
[15:07:42] <jt-alyeska> Geeze
[15:07:45] <PetefromTn_> like a boss
[15:07:50] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[15:07:55] <Tom_itx> you could put racing stripes around it
[15:08:11] <jt-alyeska> See you later
[15:08:12] <PetefromTn_> or a purple/yellow fade
[15:09:28] <PetefromTn_> it's BLING!!!
[15:09:47] <_methods> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3153804/Could-ASTEROID-protect-Earth-against-climate-change-Teenager-proposes-create-dust-screen-using-orbiting-rocks.html
[15:09:55] <Tom_itx> you're supposed to say it's for saving weight
[15:10:11] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah
[15:11:12] <_methods> $20 off $100 monoprice coupon
[15:11:26] <_methods> today only
[15:11:46] <_methods> code = july20
[15:11:52] <_methods> if anyone is interested
[15:13:26] <PetefromTn_> poor $ .50 apparently doesn't even have $ .50.....
[15:13:32] <_methods> yeah
[15:13:43] <PetefromTn_> I find that hilarious
[15:13:45] <_methods> file for bankruptcy so you don't have to pay out
[15:13:50] <_methods> he's got money stashed
[15:13:54] <zeeshan|2> methods that is a cool idea
[15:13:56] <zeeshan|2> different!
[15:14:01] <_methods> he probably hid it all in case he lost
[15:14:34] <PetefromTn_> so you mean he does have $ .50 then?
[15:14:50] <_methods> i'm guessing his accountant probably made sure of that
[15:15:02] <PetefromTn_> maybe he will give me a loan ;)
[15:15:06] <_methods> lol
[15:19:26] <zeeshan|2> man im about to rant
[15:19:29] <zeeshan|2> please dont mind me.
[15:19:44] <zeeshan|2> why the heck do companies like NAPA put stuff in their CATALOG
[15:19:48] <zeeshan|2> if they can't get it?
[15:19:56] <zeeshan|2> but you go online and search that part number
[15:20:01] <zeeshan|2> and you can find 239083120892138 of them on ebay?
[15:20:09] <zeeshan|2> that is so frustrating
[15:20:39] <FinboySlick> zeeshan|2: Should have gotten a Nissan ;)
[15:20:40] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 you sound like furrywolf
[15:20:48] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:20:56] <zeeshan|2> seriously imagine this
[15:20:59] <PetefromTn_> BBL
[15:21:04] <zeeshan|2> you get a flyer, it says apples for $10!
[15:21:14] <zeeshan|2> you call the store, they cant get any apples
[15:21:14] <zeeshan|2> ?!
[15:22:28] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: sometimes they hide product thats on "big sale"
[15:22:36] <XXCoder> and people come in for it and buy other stuff
[15:22:46] <XXCoder> since its "out of stock"
[15:23:17] <zeeshan|2> http://www.redtek.com/win_cantaps.html
[15:23:20] <zeeshan|2> im just trying to get that
[15:23:35] <zeeshan|2> i fixed my parents car
[15:23:45] <zeeshan|2> it had an o-ring slowly leaking gas out
[15:23:54] <zeeshan|2> i need to recharge it using the cans
[15:24:09] <zeeshan|2> need a way to hook up the ac manifold gauge set to the can
[16:12:37] <Rab> zeeshan|2, there are Red Tek sales offices in Canada...where are you?
[16:23:39] <Deejay> gn8
[16:57:44] <tiwake> woo big machining project is done
[16:58:09] <PetefromTn_> define big
[16:58:43] <tiwake> a couple weeks worth of making 1-4 parts
[16:58:46] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: bigger than a breadbox
[16:59:11] <PetefromTn_> damn 4 parts in a couple weeks...must be elaborate parts
[16:59:16] <tiwake> like 15 different parts
[16:59:30] <tiwake> count ranges between 1 and 8
[17:00:00] <PetefromTn_> nice
[17:00:02] <PetefromTn_> congrats
[17:00:36] <tiwake> hopefully... just dropped the last two off, and the guy will be assembling it today
[17:01:32] <PetefromTn_> made with lunuxCNC?
[17:01:48] <tiwake> no, never used linuxCNC yet :-/
[17:02:20] <tiwake> I don't have my own house, so I cant work on a project like that yet
[17:04:32] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I might need a long length tap for a part and they are pricey
[17:04:51] <_methods> pulley tap?
[17:06:05] <PetefromTn_> preferrably a long length spiral flute
[17:06:12] <PetefromTn_> 1/4-20
[17:07:12] <_methods> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/04800207
[17:07:58] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENERAL-PURPOSE-1-4-20-PLUG-PULLEY-TAP-6-LG-/200516415696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eafb5b0d0
[17:08:01] <_methods> $20
[17:08:15] <PetefromTn_> that does not appear to be threaded very much further than what I have here.
[17:08:43] <_methods> ?
[17:08:45] <tiwake> why would the amount of threads matter?
[17:09:00] <PetefromTn_> and yeah I know that a thread reaches its max strength at a certain length so more is not better
[17:09:23] <tiwake> I mean amount of threads on the tap its self
[17:09:29] <_methods> yeah
[17:09:36] <PetefromTn_> it appears that the tap would STOP tapping just past the threads and not be able to go any further
[17:09:40] <_methods> nahh
[17:09:44] <_methods> you just tap through
[17:09:59] <tiwake> if it does then just grind the shoulder away
[17:10:10] <_methods> the shoulder is usually under the thread size
[17:10:14] <_methods> so you can tap deep
[17:10:17] <tiwake> enh
[17:10:19] <tiwake> depends
[17:10:20] <PetefromTn_> it is?
[17:10:29] <PetefromTn_> it does not appear that way in the pictures
[17:10:30] <tiwake> the one _methods linked, yeah
[17:11:04] <_methods> even if it is over you just turn the shank down
[17:11:10] <_methods> but usually it's below the minor
[17:11:18] <PetefromTn_> OK
[17:11:28] <PetefromTn_> never used one before
[17:12:02] <PetefromTn_> do they call it a pulley tap because it has to go deep thru the body of pullies to get to the center hole?
[17:12:18] <_methods> yeah
[17:12:31] <_methods> set screws for pulleys
[17:12:44] <_methods> i guess
[17:12:46] <PetefromTn_> aah
[17:13:54] <_methods> you might have to turn down the shank on 1/4"
[17:14:02] <_methods> 3/8" and above the shank is below minor
[17:15:57] <_methods> just make sure you turn the shank down enough to allow chips out
[17:16:07] <_methods> or do a full back out on occasion to clear them
[17:18:51] * furrywolf is full
[17:19:24] <furrywolf> I went with someone to a mexican place that had a specially extra-jumbo-super-burrito, of the "you can't eat this" variety. I ate it. :)
[17:20:21] <PetefromTn_> Best Burrito I ever had was in Honolulu Hawaii at a place called Hippo's I believe it was called. it was HUGE and DELICIOUS!!! Amazing Guacamole
[17:20:33] <furrywolf> eww. I hate guacamole. :P
[17:20:40] <PetefromTn_> of course
[17:21:09] <_methods> zippy's
[17:21:10] <_methods> lol
[17:21:25] <_methods> they sure love spam there
[17:22:21] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Did you get it for free? Or just type I diabetes?
[17:22:55] <furrywolf> no, not free. there's a place here that has free-if-you-can-eat-it burger. I should try it someday. I'm pretty sure it's smaller than the burrito.
[17:23:32] <os1r1s> _methods: Where do you set the default initialization string? For example G17 vs G18
[17:23:48] <_methods> in your postprocessor?
[17:25:16] <_methods> but g17 g18 would probably change depending on how you programmed it in your cam program
[17:25:39] <os1r1s> I can set it in the cam program, but when I start linuxcnc it seems to default
[17:26:13] <_methods> linuxcnc starts up with that default program that probably calls g17 in it
[17:26:25] <_methods> in axis at least
[17:26:43] <_methods> and when you start up linuxcnc i'm sure it defaults to g17
[17:26:47] <os1r1s> I see G80, G17, G40, G20, G90, etc, etc
[17:27:00] <os1r1s> Under active gcodes in MDI mode
[17:27:04] <_methods> ahh yeah
[17:27:14] <os1r1s> Is there a way to set those?
[17:27:15] <_methods> they probably get called up in that default program
[17:27:26] <os1r1s> I can't seem to find it in the ini or the hal
[17:27:38] <_methods> well you can change them whenever you want
[17:27:47] <_methods> do you want them to default to something else?
[17:28:06] <os1r1s> Ahh, unless its axis-lathe.ngc
[17:28:08] <PetefromTn_> as I understand it you don't HAVE to have the program open with linuxCNC
[17:28:40] <os1r1s> Its nice to modify those. For example on my lathe I only want G18 mode
[17:28:46] <_methods> i'm sure you can make it open with whatever default program you want
[17:29:03] <os1r1s> I can set it in the post processor, but if I always know it then I would like to set it there
[17:29:14] <_methods> yeah i don't blame you
[17:30:16] <os1r1s> Hmm, not in that file either
[17:30:20] <os1r1s> brb ...
[17:30:23] <_methods> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/21-axis/29221-default-demo-program
[17:31:59] <_methods> with that you can make it load whatever default codes you want
[17:32:36] <furrywolf> heh, the first thing I cut on my mill was the default demo. :)
[17:35:18] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, a long undersize shank tap could snap unless you back it out a couple times
[17:35:48] <Tom_itx> also, hi helix is desireable if you can find one
[17:36:50] * zeeshan|2 is scratching head
[17:36:51] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/Jmky4IS.jpg
[17:36:56] <furrywolf> speaking of taps... I got a drill with a tap chuck. it has two collars, the normal one you'd turn with a chuck key (not included, of course), and a second one at the back with holes like you'd use a pair of tommy bars on. I couldn't make either collar do anything, at all. Why does it have two, and what do they do? heh
[17:37:14] <zeeshan|2> lessy blurry pic:
[17:37:15] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/9dLChr3.jpg
[17:37:54] * zeeshan|2 needs an adjustable angle plate
[17:38:07] <furrywolf> what is the head-scratching about?
[17:39:01] <zeeshan|2> got a pic of the tap chuck?
[17:39:14] <furrywolf> are you scratching your head trying to figure out how to ship that machine to me with no cost to me?
[17:39:30] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:39:38] <zeeshan|2> im trying to mount the exhaust flange side to the sine plate
[17:39:50] <zeeshan|2> but since the flange is at an angle
[17:39:52] * furrywolf does a googe images search to look for a similar one
[17:39:55] <zeeshan|2> i can't clamp it down
[17:39:57] <furrywolf> google
[17:40:00] <malcom2073> furrywolf: impact drill?
[17:40:08] <malcom2073> hammer drill rather?
[17:40:20] <malcom2073> They often have two collars, one for the bit, one to engauge/disengauge the hamer
[17:41:28] <furrywolf> malcom2073: it's labeled Jacobs Tap Chuck, and has two jaws with 90-degree cuts, obviously meant to hold a square.
[17:41:39] <malcom2073> Ohh
[17:41:51] <furrywolf> not finding one like it googling. hrmm. it's quite old.
[17:42:00] <malcom2073> Interesting
[17:42:01] <malcom2073> pics!
[17:42:14] <Tom_itx> not like a brace and bit chuck?
[17:43:43] <Tom_itx> http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/hand-brace-drill-bit-10763420.jpg
[17:43:56] <Tom_itx> i've seen a few old drills with that square end on them
[17:44:12] <zeeshan|2> omg
[17:44:15] <zeeshan|2> my brain just clicked in !!!!!!!!!!!1
[17:44:15] <zeeshan|2> my brain just clicked in !!!!!!!!!!!1
[17:44:28] * malcom2073 knocks zeeshan|2 into neutral
[17:44:28] <zeeshan|2> i just just put a ball bearing in the exhaust flange hole
[17:44:29] <malcom2073> oops
[17:44:32] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, clutch slipping?
[17:44:38] <zeeshan|2> and clamp down on that
[17:44:41] <furrywolf> k, I'll go dig it out.
[17:44:43] <zeeshan|2> that'll account for the angle
[17:49:12] <furrywolf> uploading
[17:50:31] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/tapchuck01.jpg
[17:52:57] <furrywolf> the back collar turns about a half dozen turns each direction, but I haven't figured out what, if anything, it does. the front one is frozen in place, and unfortunately cracked.
[17:53:38] <furrywolf> it says TIGHTEN ON SQUARE on it, with arrows
[17:54:28] <furrywolf> it's on an air drill, with pushbutton forward/reverse, no trigger.
[17:54:41] <malcom2073> That's odd
[17:55:05] <malcom2073> That *really* looks like a hammer collar
[17:55:10] <furrywolf> I'm assuming it's a power tapper of some form. :)
[17:55:11] <malcom2073> but it can't be if it's for tapping
[17:55:41] <furrywolf> no, it's not a hammer drill, it grips a square shank, and it says JACOBS TAP CHUCK on it...
[17:57:04] <furrywolf> I got it for $0.50 at a yard sale... the drill motor sounds very healthy, but I haven't applied air to it yet.
[18:02:03] <furrywolf> engaging/disengaging hammer wouldn't happen in the chuck
[18:03:56] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: is it a normal speed air drill?
[18:04:32] <furrywolf> it might be geared more for torque. the motor spins pretty fast when you twist the chuck.
[18:05:24] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Yeah I figured that. thanks
[18:08:41] <furrywolf> it also uses thumb pushbuttons for forward and reverse, no trigger.
[18:08:51] <furrywolf> push one button to go forwards, push the other to reverse
[18:13:50] <SpeedEvil> oh - so the buttons are the trigger
[18:17:53] <furrywolf> it says something like "No 318 tap chuck No 0 - 5/16 hand tap", but it's very damaged, and the "318" is a total guess since it's pretty much unreadable. I can see the first and the last digit might be 3s or 8s. heh.
[18:22:19] <furrywolf> I can't find anything remotely like it googling, which is unusual.
[18:22:50] <furrywolf> neither the chuck nor the drill it's on
[18:23:15] <SpeedEvil> No makers amekrs?
[18:23:16] <SpeedEvil> make
[18:23:17] <SpeedEvil> mark
[18:23:54] <robinsz> you americans and your funny threads ...
[18:24:43] <furrywolf> drill is a Thor 210R.
[18:24:53] <furrywolf> which finds nothing. heh.
[18:24:57] <furrywolf> nor can I find a thor drill that looks like it.
[18:25:42] <furrywolf> other than a 1949 magazine ad
[18:26:32] <furrywolf> and the drill in the ad doesn't look like the one I have, despite the same model number.
[18:26:57] <Tom_itx> https://books.google.com/books?id=DdkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA303&lpg=PA303&dq=1949+thor+210r+drill&source=bl&ots=0ygOIkkl-w&sig=5CqWWcx9d9sNJsZlyoofqycQaUE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMIiLis2ZvZxgIVkDeICh2eiQ3_#v=onepage&q=1949%20thor%20210r%20drill&f=false
[18:26:59] <Tom_itx> that one?
[18:27:43] <furrywolf> actually, 210R is apparantly the "size" the model is "5457"
[18:28:38] <furrywolf> which brings it down to ZERO google results. lol
[18:29:17] <Tom_itx> that one was a model 4526
[18:29:27] <furrywolf> yeah, explains why it doesn't look like this one.
[18:32:16] <furrywolf> it's probably the nicest looking air drill I've ever seen, both in terms of design, construction quality, and sexy curves. too bad it's beat to hell.
[18:32:36] <furrywolf> sec, I'll grab another photo.
[18:33:40] <furrywolf> it's clearly quite old
[18:35:31] <furrywolf> every other one I can find has a trigger... I'm guessing this was some special tapping model.
[18:37:16] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/thorairdrill01.jpg
[18:40:05] <furrywolf> it's a lot smoother and tighter than a brand new china one. :)
[18:41:57] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5121494119.html !!
[18:43:40] <Tom_itx> why do you want a clip on ammeter?
[18:43:49] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: that clamp is AC only. it will not measure DC, like your anodizing tank.
[18:44:01] <PetefromTn_> SHEET
[18:44:12] <Tom_itx> what about the bottom 2 leads though?
[18:44:13] <PetefromTn_> didn't know that..
[18:44:16] <Tom_itx> i can't tell..
[18:44:20] <furrywolf> The vast, vast, vast majority of clamp meters are AC-only.
[18:44:25] <PetefromTn_> just heard you all opining about how great your FLUKE meters are
[18:44:34] <Tom_itx> they are
[18:44:49] <furrywolf> unless it explicitly says DC CLAMP METER in big letters at the top of the description, as that'll be it's #1 feature, any clamp meter you see is AC only.
[18:46:10] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5053580296.html
[18:46:19] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-77-Digital-Multimeter-/391193879320?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b14f8e318
[18:46:35] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: that one will work, yes.
[18:46:55] <furrywolf> make the seller demonstrate the 10A scale works. :)
[18:47:00] <PetefromTn_> Great!!! Buy it for me ;)
[18:47:04] <furrywolf> roughly all of them have blown fuses. :P
[18:47:20] <PetefromTn_> Did I mention I tried mine yesterday
[18:47:35] <furrywolf> and it didn't read anything? yes
[18:47:37] <PetefromTn_> and it did not show any current just stayed at zero LOL
[18:47:46] <Tom_itx> get a fuse for it
[18:48:03] <PetefromTn_> I had to unscrew it to take it apart and it had two ceramic fuses inside it
[18:48:11] <PetefromTn_> could not tell which one was blown
[18:48:12] <furrywolf> the $75 one you pasted looks like a decent meter
[18:48:18] <PetefromTn_> dont have another one to test it LOL
[18:48:44] <Tom_itx> be inventive
[18:48:56] <PetefromTn_> looks like it measures AC and DC current right?
[18:48:56] <Tom_itx> use some tin foil to ohm the fuses then put them back in
[18:49:52] <furrywolf> most meters will probably measure ohms (what you need to test fuses) with the fuses removed. the fuses are usually only for the current scales. so remove one fuse, test it, put it back in, remove other fuse, test it, put it back in. if you pull them both out, keep good track of which goes where. :)
[18:49:55] <Tom_itx> i've got one of those old 77s i posted
[18:50:28] <furrywolf> chances are one will be 10-20A and the other will be a special 0.2A or something.
[18:50:52] <Tom_itx> yep
[18:51:17] <furrywolf> yes, the bottom two scales are amps AC and amps DC.
[18:51:35] <furrywolf> the one with the squiggle is AC, the one with the dots is DC.
[18:52:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah and it has a diode reader
[18:52:29] <furrywolf> actually, with some meters, the 0.2-ish amp fuse is needed to make the ohms scale work. so just look for the 10A fuse and test it.
[18:52:52] <PetefromTn_> what is the little horn a plenty?
[18:53:04] <furrywolf> ?
[18:53:14] <PetefromTn_> about 3 Oclock
[18:53:17] <furrywolf> the scale on the very east of the dial?
[18:53:26] <furrywolf> that's an omega, the greek letter used for ohms.
[18:53:32] <PetefromTn_> make that 3:30
[18:53:34] <Tom_itx> beep test is what i call it
[18:53:50] <PetefromTn_> no not that one the next one
[18:53:59] <furrywolf> that's supposed to be sound waves. continuity tester mode. it beeps whenever the leads are connected.
[18:54:04] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[18:54:08] <PetefromTn_> Oh okay
[18:54:29] <PetefromTn_> that actually IS a nice meter huh
[18:54:32] <Tom_itx> quite handy really
[18:54:37] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:54:43] <PetefromTn_> too bad I am broke LOL
[18:55:08] <PetefromTn_> ya think they might need a custom remote resorvoir shock clamp LOL?
[18:55:42] <PetefromTn_> I see the Min/Max and range buttons but what is the big yellow one?
[18:55:48] <furrywolf> no, since most shocks come with perfectly usable ones. :P
[18:56:02] <PetefromTn_> actually they don't
[18:56:19] <PetefromTn_> lots of people just use hose clamps
[18:56:30] <Tom_itx> some have a peak hold button
[18:56:36] <Tom_itx> that may be it, i'm not sure
[18:56:46] <Tom_itx> no
[18:56:49] <Tom_itx> the left one is...
[18:56:51] <furrywolf> hrmm. all the ones around here are all identical (bright blue, stainless braided hose), and all have the same aluminum clamp...
[18:56:58] <Tom_itx> it says "HOLD" in bigass letters
[18:57:12] <PetefromTn_> DAMN my wife is cooking some good smelling stuff!! Mexican corn bread and some black bean soup/chili with ground beef....
[18:57:38] <PetefromTn_> so what is the big yeller one? heh
[18:57:46] <Tom_itx> google the manual
[18:58:04] <PetefromTn_> meh I don't want to know that bad :D
[18:58:24] <Tom_itx> fluke meters are hard to beat
[18:58:41] <PetefromTn_> that's what I hear
[18:58:43] <furrywolf> yellow seems to be function mode of some form
[18:58:55] <furrywolf> pressing it switches between multiple functions at the same dial position
[18:59:02] <PetefromTn_> honestly the meter I have I bought at an electrical supply shop and they recommended it SHORT of the fluke....
[19:00:15] <PetefromTn_> and it has survived my hamfisted poking around in live circuits for several years now DOH!!
[19:00:21] <furrywolf> if you're broke, just get a bloody fuse for yours. :P
[19:00:29] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:00:44] <PetefromTn_> hey a guy can dream right?
[19:01:11] <furrywolf> heh, apparantly it sounds the beeper continuously at full volume if you leave the probe in the A jack and switch to a voltage range. :P
[19:01:34] <PetefromTn_> good feature!
[19:02:28] <furrywolf> actually, no, it only beeps briefly. my bad. mis-read something.
[19:03:09] <PetefromTn_> I need a good used Pressure washer
[19:03:20] <PetefromTn_> I need to wash down the siding on my house
[19:03:31] <PetefromTn_> and I don't want to pay to rent one
[19:03:40] <PetefromTn_> but I am too cheap to buy one
[19:03:45] <PetefromTn_> so I am SCREWD
[19:03:50] <PetefromTn_> :D
[19:03:57] <furrywolf> then you need to buy a broken one and fix it, or bum one off a neighbor. :P
[19:04:11] <PetefromTn_> I like the BUM idea
[19:04:26] <PetefromTn_> just gotta find a sucker...er a nice neighbor that has one
[19:04:41] <furrywolf> hey, <name of friendly neighbor>, if I leave these <hand six-pack> here, could I borrow your pressure washer for a couple days?
[19:04:44] <_methods> wow that last true detective was pretty crazy
[19:05:01] <furrywolf> what is a true detective?
[19:05:27] * PetefromTn_ wonders who he can borrow a six pack from
[19:05:45] <furrywolf> I don't think that's something you can borrow.
[19:06:10] <_methods> you can have my pressure washer
[19:06:12] <PetefromTn_> sure man I would give it back
[19:06:15] <_methods> i wish id never bought that thing
[19:06:22] <PetefromTn_> what kind is it?
[19:06:27] <_methods> dewalt
[19:06:39] <furrywolf> I need a better one... I have one that wasn't half bad... a long time ago. now it's a rusty piece of crap with a marginal pump.
[19:06:47] <PetefromTn_> didn't know dewalt made pressure washers
[19:06:59] <_methods> im sure it's just rebadged
[19:07:06] <furrywolf> dewalt sticks their name on a lot of things.
[19:07:32] <_methods> dewalt probably doesn't actually make anything anymore
[19:07:49] <furrywolf> now that they're b&d, they have a wide variety of chinese crap to paint yellow and put a sticker on.
[19:08:50] <furrywolf> brb, my battery current is too high, poking at them to make sure I don't have a bad cell.
[19:10:23] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5121263750.html
[19:11:11] <_methods> what a bargain lol
[19:11:37] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5090398950.html LOL this is the meter I loaned out and is gone now. It was a HF special but it actually worked pretty good.
[19:13:48] <furrywolf> no bad cells, looks like they just need to equalize more after I shuffled them around yesterday.
[19:14:31] <jdh> I have that meter also
[19:14:54] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: At least you know where to get it back :P
[19:15:20] <PetefromTn_> heh I would not mind having it back
[19:15:31] <furrywolf> I have one of those somewhere too... I kept it clamped onto the line to my air compressor to see when the motor was being stupid.
[19:15:53] <PetefromTn_> as I recall it even came with a temp probe
[19:45:31] <zeeshan|2> where can one buy an assortment of different ball sizes
[19:45:38] <zeeshan|2> (other than online)
[19:46:50] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/g9Gyz
[19:47:48] <malcom2073> zeeshan|2: Ace hardware, or any other hardware store?
[19:48:03] <zeeshan|2> i dont think ive seen them at home depot before
[19:48:19] <malcom2073> No, not a home improvement store
[19:48:21] <malcom2073> a hardware store
[19:48:49] <zeeshan|2> fastshitall seems to list em by size
[19:49:16] <malcom2073> Is that a euphemism for something?
[19:49:23] <zeeshan|2> fastenal
[19:49:23] <zeeshan|2> :D
[19:49:31] <malcom2073> They may, never been in one
[19:52:31] <furrywolf> fastenal is rather worthless.
[19:53:21] <furrywolf> they won't have what you need in stock, so they'll order it, but you have to order 50 or 100 at a time, and they charge you for shipping, even though it comes on their freight truck with their regular order.
[19:54:08] <zeeshan|2> lol at least they order it for you
[19:54:14] <zeeshan|2> here they wont even talk to you unless you're a "registered business"
[19:54:24] <zeeshan|2> (was trying to order shit for school)
[19:54:33] <zeeshan|2> but from the sounds of it
[19:54:36] <zeeshan|2> there are some good locations
[19:54:38] <zeeshan|2> not all are shit
[19:54:41] <furrywolf> but despite the allusion to "all" in the name, they actually don't have any better selection than the hardware store can order.
[19:55:29] <furrywolf> in other news, I just got one of the eu6500ises running... needs a tuneup, as it surges badly at low low loads, but it ran a 5000W test load with no major issues.
[19:55:51] <furrywolf> also, it's now the THIRD generator I've found with a broken off gas can spout inside the tank. I hate california. hate.
[19:56:46] <furrywolf> see, in all the normal states, a spout is a piece of plastic or metal. it's simple, and it works. but not in california. nooooo. in california, spouts are required to be multi-part assemblies with valves and vapor recovery.
[19:57:03] <furrywolf> the end result being they spill all over, every time you use them, and then break and dump gas all over.
[19:57:13] <furrywolf> causing about a thousand times the pollution they're supposed to prevent.
[19:58:39] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:58:43] <zeeshan|2> cali spec emission
[19:58:43] <zeeshan|2> game over
[20:00:07] <furrywolf> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/07/1342736/-Has-anyone-purchased-a-new-gas-can-lately
[20:00:58] <furrywolf> "The new gas cans with CARB-compliant spouts require three hands (at a minimum) to operate, inevitably cause the user to spill far more gasoline with each refuel of a lawn mower than he managed to spill over the previous decade in total" my experience completely confirms this statement.
[20:03:00] <malcom2073> I wonder if anyone sells the old style solid plastic totally open spouts
[20:03:10] <furrywolf> not legally. :)
[20:03:23] <furrywolf> however, tractor supply has a shelf of them... "replacement water can spouts" :P
[20:03:27] <malcom2073> Lol
[20:03:28] <malcom2073> Nice
[20:03:39] <malcom2073> Sorta like "offroad use only" tags on car stuff
[20:03:40] <malcom2073> love it
[20:03:54] <furrywolf> you're supposed to screw them to the blue water cans. however, they have the same thread, are the same shape, made from the same plastic...
[20:04:23] <malcom2073> I'd like to think that's intentional, but who knows nowadays
[20:05:38] <os1r1s> _methods: You use radius mode on your lathe, right?
[20:06:47] <_methods> i have used radius and diameter
[20:07:09] <_methods> personally i prefer radius
[20:08:27] <os1r1s> _methods: I'm trying to gfigure out homing switches on the lathe. So you would set X as a min switch at X0, but Z at the max
[20:08:56] <furrywolf> where do you home a lathe to when you have a cutoff tool mounted on the backside of the table?
[20:08:58] <_methods> well i would set them at max dist away from spindle
[20:09:12] <_methods> max x+ and max z+
[20:09:14] <os1r1s> So on a 3.5x17 lathe, you would use X0 with a range of 0-1.75 and Z at Z17 with a range of 0-17
[20:09:33] <_methods> yeah
[20:09:41] <os1r1s> But you prefer X max?
[20:09:53] <_methods> i would have home to x max yeah
[20:10:00] <_methods> you don't want to home towards the spindle
[20:10:24] <os1r1s> Gotcha
[20:10:39] <os1r1s> But as long as the sequence is Z,X, I would think it would be ok
[20:10:53] <_methods> i normally do x then z
[20:11:00] <os1r1s> But its the total range cut in half that I was most curious about.
[20:11:06] <_methods> move away from the spindle then towards tailstock
[20:11:16] <os1r1s> I've not had homing on a lathe yet :)
[20:11:17] <furrywolf> I don't know if I'll even implement homing in lathe mode... too many unpredictable things to hit on my machine.
[20:12:28] <_methods> well i've had more crashes on lathes than mills ill tell you that
[20:12:36] <_methods> you can get in trouble real fast
[20:13:54] <_methods> i'm guessing you dont have a turret on that lathe though
[20:14:00] <_methods> so that makes things a little less crazy
[20:14:13] <furrywolf> heh
[20:14:26] <furrywolf> I have a lathe/mill combo machine... there's annoyingly many ways to hit things while homing.
[20:15:03] <Rab> furrywolf, looooooool, thanks for the tip on the TSC "water can replacement spout".
[20:15:17] <furrywolf> Rab: :)
[20:15:18] <Rab> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ez-pour-water-can-replacement-spout-kit
[20:16:48] <JT-MOBILE> What's up
[20:17:15] <Rab> Hmm, they also sell a version that's actually advertised for that purpose: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ez-pour-universal-replacement-spout-kit
[20:18:12] <JT-MOBILE> I updated one of my cans with that
[20:18:25] <Rab> Both made from HDPE, I guess the only difference is white/black.
[20:18:48] <furrywolf> I think the only difference is the color.
[20:19:13] <furrywolf> they only had the water can one at the TSC here, probably because it's california. fit my plastic gas can perfectly.
[20:19:29] <furrywolf> they even come with a new vent, so you can drill a hole in your ventless can and push it in. :P
[20:21:02] <Rab> One must wonder when they'll start selling 100W edison-base space heaters.
[20:21:27] <JT-MOBILE> lol
[20:21:38] <furrywolf> that happen to have high-temperature tungsten heating elements in an evauated envelope?
[20:21:45] <furrywolf> evacuated
[20:22:08] <Rab> Indeed, with high-visibility activity indicator.
[20:22:27] <furrywolf> actually, modern LED lamps are getting pretty good. I don't have any incandescent lamps anymore.
[20:23:03] <furrywolf> CFLs are garbage, old LEDs are garbage, but the new LED lamps are perfectly usable, and quite cheap. Costco currently has 3-packs of 60W equivalent LED lamps for $10.something.
[20:23:10] <Rab> Neither do I. Seems like an insane way to use power.
[20:24:06] <Rab> A little more justifiable in the northern US states.
[20:24:23] <furrywolf> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/no-spill-inc-2-1-2-gal-gas-can-carb-compliant?cm_vc=IOPDP1 I have one of those... it's the least-evil of the california gas cans.
[20:24:41] <furrywolf> brb
[20:31:39] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/4ZPzaHx.jpg hehehehe
[20:32:22] <_methods> wow
[20:32:28] <_methods> minty
[21:19:00] <PetefromTn_> man I need to come up with some new ideas for CNC machined products to sell!
[21:21:15] <PetefromTn_> Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
[21:34:27] <zeeshan|2> take a ball bearing
[21:34:29] <zeeshan|2> and mill a flit on it
[21:34:33] <zeeshan|2> and call it a chewy ball
[21:46:39] <PetefromTn_> what's a flit?
[21:46:43] <zeeshan|2> flat sorry
[21:47:02] <zeeshan|2> sorry it was a dumb suggestion
[21:47:08] <zeeshan|2> i dunno if you follow the youtubers
[21:47:13] <PetefromTn_> what's a chewy ball?
[21:47:15] <zeeshan|2> but a guy lite4rally did that, and started selling them
[21:47:20] <zeeshan|2> its a ball with a flat on it
[21:47:35] <PetefromTn_> never heard of it.
[21:47:43] <zeeshan|2> its such a common thing to use in setup
[21:47:46] <zeeshan|2> even tom lipton was like
[21:47:53] <zeeshan|2> "hey chuck, you know we use these all the itme"
[21:47:54] <zeeshan|2> *time
[21:47:58] <zeeshan|2> but you know he was trying to be nice
[21:48:34] <PetefromTn_> Who is Tom Lipton?
[21:48:49] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGTapRUv_4I
[21:48:51] <zeeshan|2> go to 8:14
[21:48:57] <zeeshan|2> for some reason i cant copy the link with the time
[21:49:09] <zeeshan|2> https://youtu.be/rGTapRUv_4I?t=498
[21:49:10] <zeeshan|2> there we go
[21:49:32] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/rGTapRUv_4I?t=8m14s
[21:49:55] <PetefromTn_> I usually use a rod or tig wire
[21:50:04] <zeeshan|2> its not the same
[21:50:08] <zeeshan|2> watch the video
[21:56:08] <zeeshan|2> i think i can use that same idea with my manifold mounting
[21:57:31] * zeeshan|2 draws up something
[22:00:11] <PetefromTn_> I must be missing something but I don't see how that is any different from my dowel pins I use for the same purpose
[22:01:13] <zeeshan|2> as it allows for misalignment in 2 planes
[22:01:15] <zeeshan|2> not just one
[22:02:31] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEboYPLrfHc
[22:02:34] <zeeshan|2> this video shows it
[22:02:38] <zeeshan|2> in detail
[22:02:41] <zeeshan|2> if you have the patience :)
[22:03:27] <zeeshan|2> https://youtu.be/XEboYPLrfHc?t=1016
[22:03:27] <zeeshan|2> there
[22:03:31] <zeeshan|2> only gotta watch for 5 min
[22:03:35] <zeeshan|2> not 27 min
[22:06:01] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/g9Gyz
[22:06:10] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if putting a flat on the ball is a better idea
[22:06:13] <zeeshan|2> than just leaving it spherical
[22:06:16] <zeeshan|2> for my application
[22:06:29] <zeeshan|2> my intuition says a flat is better cause you have more surface area of contwact
[22:06:31] <zeeshan|2> vs a point
[23:02:33] <CaptHindsight> are there any tools out there for generating G-code where there is no machining involved? So not CAM, just programming motion, pauses etc
[23:03:33] <CaptHindsight> say you want to program a cartesion robot but you don't know G-code?
[23:04:29] <pcw_home> filter to convert what you have to gcode?
[23:06:28] <CaptHindsight> lets say you're just a lab tech without G-code experience
[23:06:47] <CaptHindsight> you have a Linuxcnc controlled Cartesian robot
[23:07:31] <CaptHindsight> you want to program it to pick and place or dispense something into various locations etc
[23:10:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.opentrons.com/ they aren't using Linuxcnc
[23:11:18] <CaptHindsight> but it looks like they will have a easier to use programming interface
[23:12:47] <CaptHindsight> no g-code for the lab tech
[23:20:35] <furrywolf> grrr. got this eu6500is all back together, but I can't seem to make it stop surging at low rpm.
[23:21:31] <furrywolf> carb looked spotless, blew through all passages with brake cleaner, all were nice and clear, no change. new air filter, new spark plug, no change. fuel supply is good. set valve lash, it was pretty loose, but no change. spark arrestor is clean.
[23:22:28] <furrywolf> oiled throttle linkage, no change
[23:23:29] <furrywolf> it supports a full load just fine... with three space heaters, a heat gun, and a halogen light, got 6550W on it (according to its little lcd display)... but it surges badly below about 1500W.
[23:29:06] <furrywolf> this is the first one I haven't been able to make stop surging... every other surging small engine I've worked on was fixed by one of the above. heh.
[23:47:52] <furrywolf> googling only finds complaints and questions, no fixes.
[23:49:33] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to take the torch cleaners to the main jet a little agressively.