#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-11

[00:00:21] <furrywolf> MattyMatt: that'd be more true if labor and other supplies were equally available everywhere.
[00:00:38] <MattyMatt> they are, with a regular train service
[00:00:41] <XXCoder> traveling cnc machinist
[00:00:47] <MattyMatt> workers alight at any stop
[00:02:09] <XXCoder> the trip would have be very planned to be profitable
[00:02:20] <MattyMatt> so you'd need an 8 hour round journey, to get off at the end of the shift, at your stop
[00:02:31] <XXCoder> for example go to point a, make parts, go to next stop, make more parts there
[00:02:33] <XXCoder> so on
[00:03:53] <MattyMatt> build the whole commercial district on a giant turntable that turns once per shift
[00:05:29] <MattyMatt> 8 mile circumference = 1mph easy to walk or drive over the edge
[00:07:14] <XXCoder> or stay with train at week a time
[00:09:09] <MattyMatt> yeah one week on, one week off, like an oil rig
[00:09:26] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:09:51] <XXCoder> add a special lathe size of average train module
[00:09:55] <XXCoder> BIG lathe.
[00:10:15] <XXCoder> another one, mill the size of train section lol
[00:10:39] <MattyMatt> I guess shipping container sized machines are more versatile
[00:11:27] <MattyMatt> 30 ton limit when shipping by road or sea tho
[00:11:47] <XXCoder> yeah but same time it would be machinist train
[00:12:09] <XXCoder> arrive, park and run stuff while its there
[00:12:19] <XXCoder> then move on to next job
[00:13:07] <XXCoder> it will have to be very special, because most company would rather run their own.
[00:13:17] <MattyMatt> or you just take a selection of exotic machines to places that can't even justify one per town
[00:13:17] <XXCoder> but special stuff like really huge lathe would do it
[00:13:26] <XXCoder> indeed
[00:13:59] <XXCoder> suppose there is lathe build into 2 module, but just align and add rails for tooling, then its ready
[00:14:15] <MattyMatt> I guess this kinda thing is already done, by plant hire firms
[00:14:16] <XXCoder> it would be good grief in least 40 feet long
[00:14:26] <XXCoder> and diameter limit maybe 10
[00:14:44] <XXCoder> of course it would require bit lengthy setup time
[00:15:36] <XXCoder> but existing machines can be adopted
[00:25:52] <furrywolf> now if only we still had a railroad here...
[00:25:58] <furrywolf> last train rain here in the '90s
[00:26:39] <furrywolf> ran
[00:26:39] <XXCoder> man
[00:26:56] <XXCoder> your area must be where remote people call remote
[00:27:06] <XXCoder> oh brother http://cdn4.fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/kool-aid-wolf-teamwork.jpg?f187b0
[00:28:03] <furrywolf> for remote, how about that our entire internet and telephone system runs on a single fiber optic cable strung along the freeway for 200 miles? :P
[00:28:39] <alex4nder> furrywolf: aren't you in northern california?
[00:28:46] <furrywolf> every time something happens to it, we lose internet, long-distance landline phone, all cellphone, banking, credit card processing, etc until it's fixed. :P
[00:28:54] <furrywolf> yes
[00:29:02] <XXCoder> crazy
[00:29:25] <XXCoder> probably east north calfornia
[00:29:26] <alex4nder> southern oregon is less remote that northern california
[00:29:59] <furrywolf> alex_joni: I'm about 5.5 hours north of san francisco, 1.5 hours south of oregon...
[00:30:02] <furrywolf> alex4nder
[00:30:06] <alex4nder> furrywolf: by like, weed?
[00:30:27] <alex4nder> or are you farther east
[00:30:35] <furrywolf> coastal. eureka area.
[00:30:39] <alex4nder> oh yah
[00:31:04] <alex4nder> I've driven through there
[00:31:29] <furrywolf> people always seem to forget there's 7-8 more hours of california above sanfran. :)
[00:31:38] <alex4nder> yah, that's because nobody goes there
[00:31:53] <furrywolf> lol
[00:31:54] <XXCoder> there is washington... oregon... and south calfornia
[00:32:02] <XXCoder> oh wait north too. :P
[00:32:06] <alex4nder> furrywolf: I always forget about the span between redding and ashland
[00:32:14] <furrywolf> lol
[00:32:21] <alex4nder> like, yreka and whatnot
[00:32:38] <furrywolf> redding is about 3 hours from here, but it should be getting faster... they're building a big bypass over some of the bad stretches of 299.
[00:33:11] <furrywolf> of course, bad is relative. what we consider a good road out here wouldn't pass for an alleyway in a city. :P
[00:33:19] <alex4nder> yah
[00:33:31] <alex4nder> some of those roads are super sketch
[00:33:43] <XXCoder> wow my teeth is still in my mouth, dang this is good road
[00:33:43] <alex4nder> I've done the 96 at like 3 in the morning
[00:33:56] <XXCoder> barely can feel bruses
[00:33:56] <alex4nder> and wanted to not be on that road
[00:34:11] <alex4nder> or like the 199
[00:34:40] <furrywolf> my favorite is still the road from burnt ranch to hyampom... tiny, windy, was paved at one point in history but not currently... has potholes over a foot deep. if you go in one, you can rip a wheel off. people like putting beer cans and bottles in them to show how deep they are.
[00:35:05] <furrywolf> a plain dirt road can't make potholes like that... but the dirt combined with remains of one layer of pavement in the middle...
[00:35:43] <XXCoder> boom tire eater holes
[00:36:18] <furrywolf> a bridge washed out, so someone put in an old railroad flatcar across the gap, with extra-sketchy "railings" on the sides. the railings promptly broke off, leaving bits of jagged angle iron sticking up 3-5 inches all along the sides, exactly at sidewall height. someone even made a sign proclaiming it to be "phlattyre bridge" and stuck it on it...
[00:37:15] <MattyMatt> if a self driving car refused to proceed if there's a pothole, you'll have to carry a shovel
[00:37:30] * furrywolf has no plans of self-driving-car ownership
[00:37:32] <XXCoder> easy
[00:37:39] <furrywolf> I doubt they could function on the roads around here
[00:37:41] <XXCoder> invent a auto-paveling car
[00:37:51] <MattyMatt> furrywolf, but the car does have those plans >:)
[00:37:56] <XXCoder> pavemening whatever
[00:39:54] <MattyMatt> or it could extend legs to walk slowly over the rough bits
[00:40:30] <MattyMatt> also handy for double parking
[00:40:43] <MattyMatt> and fording streams
[00:40:57] <furrywolf> there's roads here that go through streams. :)
[00:41:48] <MattyMatt> I guess once you've got legs you don't need wheels, except in the feet like roller skates
[00:42:41] <MattyMatt> any rednecks souped up their john deere hexapods yet?
[00:43:14] <furrywolf> I don't think the john deere one was ever sold to the public.
[00:50:32] <furrywolf> bbl
[01:02:37] <zeeshan> damn i used 3lb of filler
[01:02:42] <zeeshan> too much welding for the night :/
[01:23:13] <archivist> XXCoder paving :)
[01:28:03] <XXCoder> archivist: thsnkd lol
[01:28:05] <XXCoder> thanks
[01:28:53] <archivist> XXCoder, proof that a local paving company does not care if they block you in http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=paving
[01:30:04] <XXCoder> how long did they block you
[01:31:02] <archivist> that last picture was for nearly an hour while the concrete wagon was discharging
[01:31:25] <XXCoder> all 3 pics has weird edge on right
[01:31:39] <archivist> camera fault
[01:32:07] <XXCoder> ok
[01:40:01] <XXCoder> how often did they block you archivist
[01:40:22] <archivist> about 3 times
[01:42:44] <XXCoder> man bet it was annoying
[01:43:29] <archivist> a couple of weeks of disturbance, noise etc
[01:53:48] <XXCoder> fun.
[02:00:32] <XXCoder> http://hackaday.com/2015/07/10/drill-powered-scooter-walks-with-legs/
[02:08:46] <XXCoder> archivist: check this out too lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulblySFElo4
[02:13:20] <archivist> some have made cnc's of that style
[02:13:41] <XXCoder> nice
[02:13:49] <XXCoder> reading about one bowl maker
[02:13:52] <XXCoder> interesting
[02:14:12] <XXCoder> *watching
[02:15:26] <XXCoder> guys making bowls with table saw
[02:15:29] <Deejay> moin
[02:15:34] <XXCoder> hey
[02:15:39] <Deejay> hi XXCoder
[02:16:13] <XXCoder> now a tablesaw lathe
[02:16:15] <XXCoder> man
[08:46:26] <CaptHindsight> petes anodize looks too thin
[08:50:45] <_methods> he needs to leave it in anodize tank longer?
[08:52:24] <_methods> it looked kinda splotchy in a few spots too
[08:52:31] <_methods> like he had some contamination or something
[08:53:20] <archivist> or been too quick/cool in the cleaner then etch
[08:54:59] <_methods> i'm sure pete will be able to give you an abridged version of the steps he used
[08:55:20] <_methods> sorting through last nights version might be slightly painful
[09:07:04] <os1r1s> _methods: Do you compile linuxcnc from src?
[09:10:49] <os1r1s> Anyone have thoughts on this error ./scripts/linuxcnc: line 843: 21151 Segmentation fault $EMCDISPLAY -ini "$INIFILE" $EMCDISPLAYARGS $EXTRA_ARGS
[09:13:48] <cradek> check dmesg
[09:15:35] <os1r1s> axis[4811]: segfault at a401000 ip b7656435 sp bfc3c8b8 error 6 in libc-2.13.so[b753b000+15e000]
[09:16:02] <_methods> i do not
[09:16:34] <os1r1s> cradek: I'm trying to get linuxcnc in a vm so that I can tinker with configs away from my cnc machines
[09:17:37] <os1r1s> cradek: I configured with realtime=uspace
[09:21:11] <os1r1s> cradek: Even without the realtime configure it segfaults
[09:30:44] <robinsz> so, I have a 5i20 and 7i33 all configured, want to swap to 5i20/7i77 ... but I must be missing something
[09:31:24] <robinsz> where do the encoders appear in pncconf for the 7i77/
[09:36:29] <pcw_home> I/O connector 3 tab
[09:42:35] <robinsz> hmm ...
[09:42:43] <robinsz> let me boot into it
[10:38:58] <robin> so, I am no closer to discovering how to upgrade to 2.7
[10:39:24] <robin> I looked on here: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[10:39:51] <robin> edited my wheezy sources to 2.7 instead of 2.6
[10:40:01] <robin> apt-get update barfs
[10:42:41] <pcw_home> Its not an official release yet so apt-get update wont work
[10:43:32] <robin> fund it
[10:43:40] <robin> yes it will :)
[10:43:44] <robin> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/#_upgrade_to_the_new_version
[10:44:41] <robin> i was chnaging 2.6 to 2.7 ... its "2.7-rtai" apparently
[10:45:11] <pcw_home> OK I thought you needed to fetch it from the buildbot (maybe that does the same)
[10:45:13] <furrywolf> pcw_home: get more 7i76es built?
[10:45:44] <pcw_home> probably at least a month away
[10:46:09] <robin> pcw_home, you are the Mesa guy?
[10:46:11] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to say "fuck the medical bills and everything else I should be spending money on" and run up the credit card with cnc toys to give me something to do other than sitting around being crippled.
[11:05:59] <jdh> have you been injured on the job or in an accident?
[11:06:42] <jdh> call the guy on the back of the phone book. He can get you enough for the medical bills and cnc toys
[11:06:53] <robin> sigh
[11:07:23] <Tom_itx> not after he takes his part
[11:07:54] <robin> the only thing that would please me more than winning the lottery would be declaration of open season on no-win, no-fee lawyers
[11:08:10] <robin> scum of the earth
[11:08:45] <Tom_itx> hey, they gotta steal a livin too
[11:09:54] <robin> dishonest thieves the lot of them
[11:10:21] <robin> makes us VERY wary of who we hire now
[11:12:04] <Tom_itx> put a 90 day probationary clause in your employee manual
[11:12:29] <robin> already there, and anyway it is at-will
[11:12:55] <robin> doesn't save you
[11:15:41] <CaptHindsight> _methods: petes anodize looks grey vs black and it has blank spots
[11:15:55] <PetefromTn_> morning folks
[11:16:17] <robin> ah, it is the man with the acid bath
[11:16:53] <PetefromTn_> yup the man who screwed the pooch yesterday in his first ever attempt at anodizing stuff heh
[11:16:59] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: the anodize looks thin in in that areas it worked
[11:17:14] <PetefromTn_> you saw the pics then I take it
[11:17:33] <robin> what current density did you run?
[11:17:52] <CaptHindsight> yes, it didn't cover a few spots, not sure why in those areas
[11:17:52] <PetefromTn_> I THINK it was 6A/SqFt
[11:18:10] <robin> you design in Solidworks?
[11:18:11] <PetefromTn_> the whole part is not really black and lots of areas where it did not tale
[11:18:34] <robin> solidworks will give you surface area
[11:18:40] <PetefromTn_> robin I have before but I do most of my design in Freecad.
[11:18:48] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: is it black or more grey, can't tell if the pic is overexposed
[11:18:55] <PetefromTn_> but my friend used his Solidworks to tell me the surface area
[11:19:00] <robin> right
[11:19:08] <PetefromTn_> honestly it is more grey
[11:19:10] <robin> how long as it in?
[11:19:29] <PetefromTn_> I had it cookin' at 1 amp for 120 minutes
[11:19:38] <robin> 1 amp ...
[11:19:39] <PetefromTn_> the surface area is .1755
[11:20:11] <robin> did you monitor voltage?
[11:20:14] <PetefromTn_> the only thing I did not do was get the degreaser up to the 130 degrees Caswell called for
[11:20:17] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: was the ink well mixed?
[11:20:50] <CaptHindsight> if so then it will look grey vs black if the anodize layer is too thin
[11:20:51] <PetefromTn_> I dunno it sure is black but relativley watery consistency
[11:21:02] <PetefromTn_> speaking of the dye
[11:21:06] <CaptHindsight> yes, like water
[11:21:14] <PetefromTn_> after I took the part out of the anodize tank
[11:21:26] <robin> did you monitor voltage?
[11:21:29] <PetefromTn_> I sprayed it off real good with DI water from a spray bottle
[11:21:49] <PetefromTn_> voltaged hovered around 11.5 volts the whole time
[11:21:54] <robin> hmmm
[11:22:18] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: did you let it dry after removing it from the dye?
[11:22:19] <PetefromTn_> then I took it using the TI wire I suspended it with and dunked it in the dye in a shallow trough
[11:22:32] <PetefromTn_> I let it dry for awhile
[11:22:41] <robin> constant voltage or constant current PSU?
[11:22:47] <PetefromTn_> but there was some areas where the dye was kinda running to the lower corners
[11:22:59] <PetefromTn_> they would not dry for a long time
[11:23:08] <CaptHindsight> the parts need to be completely dry before using the solvent dye
[11:23:23] <PetefromTn_> Oh you mean BEFORE the dye
[11:23:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah I sprayed it with some gentle compressed air
[11:23:44] <PetefromTn_> and tried to get it all dried off
[11:23:57] <PetefromTn_> it is possible that it was not completely totally dry tho
[11:24:22] <PetefromTn_> how do you usually dry the parts before dyeing them
[11:24:22] <CaptHindsight> has to be completely dry
[11:24:31] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight: I've heard that if you completely dry it, it will develop streaks
[11:24:33] <robin> basically as the anodic film builds, you should see the voltage increase, or the current drop .. yu generally have to wind up the PSU through the process
[11:24:57] <robin> and start with 20 minutes at half current
[11:25:06] <CaptHindsight> os1r1s: he is using solvent dye vs a water dye bath
[11:25:17] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight: Ahh, ok
[11:25:21] <PetefromTn_> robin I have heard that and expected that but it did not happen. the power supply was set in Constant current mode the whole time once I figured out how to do it.
[11:25:49] <robin> gives you a "harder" finish, if you start at full current it tends to be kinda "fluffy" and powderry
[11:25:51] <CaptHindsight> how long was the power supply in voltage mode?
[11:25:51] <PetefromTn_> I set it to 1 amp and it automatically set the voltage sorta
[11:26:07] <PetefromTn_> maybe a half hour
[11:26:21] <CaptHindsight> yeah, try again in current mode
[11:26:24] <robin> id give it 20 mins or so at half amp
[11:26:30] <CaptHindsight> plus you don't set voltage
[11:26:33] <PetefromTn_> it was in current mode for the full 120 minutes
[11:26:34] <CaptHindsight> only current
[11:26:35] <robin> then jack it to 1 amp
[11:26:49] <CaptHindsight> ohms law is still at work
[11:26:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah I understand that now and did yesterday.
[11:27:16] <PetefromTn_> I had to learn to use the power supply first yesterday ;)
[11:27:24] <robin> and I'd wait until the voltage kicked up 20% to let me know I built enough film
[11:27:34] <CaptHindsight> yeah so you have all weekend to try more :)
[11:27:38] <PetefromTn_> Okay so now that I screwed the poor pooch
[11:27:53] <robin> nah, strip it and start over
[11:27:54] <PetefromTn_> what can I do to this particular part to try again
[11:28:01] <CaptHindsight> you have to learn how to dial it all in
[11:28:04] <robin> strip it
[11:28:07] <PetefromTn_> my wife bought me a container of crystallized lye
[11:28:13] <PetefromTn_> at lowes
[11:28:23] <PetefromTn_> it says it is 100 percent lye
[11:28:39] <PetefromTn_> I was going to use another cooler for the etch/lye bath
[11:28:50] <PetefromTn_> any suggestions on ratios to use?
[11:29:52] <PetefromTn_> also I was going to try to do two parts in the bath and double the current this time as per the online calculator mostly because once we get this working (assuming we ever get it working) I can use the setup for my actual parts
[11:30:11] <PetefromTn_> another question
[11:30:12] <robin> practice on bits of scrap
[11:30:22] <robin> its actually dead easy
[11:30:28] <PetefromTn_> the power supply came with a double wire with two alligator clips on it
[11:30:51] <PetefromTn_> the other ends have hoop clips to attach to the power supply
[11:31:00] <PetefromTn_> the wires are not thick at all
[11:31:08] <PetefromTn_> is this a problem?
[11:31:12] <robin> no
[11:31:25] <robin> constant current
[11:31:44] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/KyRc698.jpg
[11:31:50] <robin> if they get hot enough to begin melting lastic, upgrade em
[11:32:06] <PetefromTn_> you can see the power supply and my cathode wires in the picture here
[11:32:10] <robin> look fine
[11:32:17] <robin> good for 10A at least
[11:32:21] <JT-MOBILE> Hi pete
[11:32:37] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/QmxgnM4.jpg
[11:32:41] <PetefromTn_> jey JT
[11:32:50] <CaptHindsight> try 10% lye in water at 100-120F for a minute
[11:32:51] <PetefromTn_> that is the setup inside the anodizing bath
[11:32:59] <CaptHindsight> adjust from there
[11:33:02] <PetefromTn_> okay ten percent
[11:33:35] <PetefromTn_> I was planning on putting the remaining two gallons of DI water in the last cooler and adding the lye solution to it and keep that for my etch tank
[11:33:36] <CaptHindsight> too long, too much lye and it may pit the parts
[11:33:51] <robin> yep
[11:33:54] <PetefromTn_> Okay so lemme get this straight
[11:33:59] <robin> fizzes nice though :)
[11:34:06] <PetefromTn_> etch the part again until it is clean but not pitted
[11:34:19] <PetefromTn_> should remove all the dye that is on the part now
[11:34:26] <robin> yes
[11:34:29] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I'd work with scrap material first
[11:34:40] <PetefromTn_> then redo my setup the same way only creeping in with the amperag
[11:34:42] <PetefromTn_> e
[11:34:50] <robin> yes
[11:34:55] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight that is a test piece made purposely for this project
[11:34:57] <robin> and hit it harder
[11:35:01] <PetefromTn_> it is actually a scrap
[11:35:07] <CaptHindsight> make some flat parts, it's easy to measure area and also see how it's going
[11:35:09] <PetefromTn_> even tho it is pretty ;)
[11:35:22] <PetefromTn_> anyways
[11:35:29] <PetefromTn_> so anodize it the same basic way
[11:35:47] <robin> I think yu just didnt build enough film
[11:35:47] <PetefromTn_> this time FULLY DRY IT OFF and spray it good with DI water before drying it off completely
[11:35:55] <PetefromTn_> THEN dip it in the dye
[11:36:00] <robin> yes
[11:36:10] <PetefromTn_> then let it dry completely after the dye?
[11:36:16] <robin> and then boiling water to seal
[11:36:44] <PetefromTn_> I am using the caswell Nickel Acetate and DI water bath for a sealer set to 200 degrees
[11:36:48] <CaptHindsight> the dye will stick to non anodized areas as well
[11:37:03] <robin> nce, ok, proper seal then
[11:37:14] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight What do you do about the excess dye that seemed to dry on the part corners
[11:37:26] <CaptHindsight> but in those non anodized areas the dye will be easily removed with solvent
[11:38:08] <PetefromTn_> my concern is that the places the dye sort of pooled and dried on the part after dipping it did not get sealed properly because they were kinda masked with excess dye
[11:38:32] <CaptHindsight> are you dipping?
[11:38:33] <PetefromTn_> at first I thought that was why the part seemed to have clear spots on the edges
[11:38:40] <PetefromTn_> yes completely submerging the part
[11:38:58] <PetefromTn_> when I take it out it seems like the dye runs off mostly
[11:39:18] <PetefromTn_> but some areas near the bottom and corners it kinda pools just like water does just a bit
[11:39:32] <PetefromTn_> those areas the dye dries thicker than the rest of the part
[11:40:15] <CaptHindsight> all that remains is dye when all the solvents evaporate
[11:41:13] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight is the dye supposed to have a real matte look to it when it dries?
[11:41:33] <CaptHindsight> you can try to wick it off with a brush or air before it dries
[11:42:03] <PetefromTn_> OK
[11:42:13] <PetefromTn_> gonna eat something here and try again.
[11:42:28] <JT-MOBILE> I hope you get this figured out by the time I get back Pete
[11:42:35] <PetefromTn_> LOL why
[11:42:42] <CaptHindsight> yes, it looks more matte when dry
[11:42:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah it looked very matte when I took it out.
[11:42:57] <JT-MOBILE> I need to fire up my line
[11:43:32] <PetefromTn_> OK
[11:43:57] <JT-MOBILE> I have a few parts to do but not enough to send off
[11:44:43] <furrywolf> microcontroller suggestions, anyway? I need something with a 12-16 bit ADC, an 8-16 bit ADC, 12-16 bit DAC, at least one digital input pin, the ability to do a 16x8 (or 16x16) multiply in a non-obscene timeframe, at least 2K of eeprom or flash, and 5V for the analog in and out.
[11:45:05] <furrywolf> doesn't need much in the way of brains, and I could probably fit in 10 bytes ram...
[11:45:19] <furrywolf> s/anyway/anyone
[11:46:38] <furrywolf> I just need to look up values in a table, multiply them by the input, and put them on the output. :)
[11:48:12] <pcw_home> 5V for analog I/O means an old chip
[11:48:52] <furrywolf> the input signals I'm getting are 0-5V and the signal I need to output is 0-5V, and scaling three times just means more parts and lost accuracy.
[11:49:17] <pcw_home> and obsolete chip...
[11:50:23] <pcw_home> some5V PICs might works
[11:50:36] <os1r1s> Does anyone have customized linuxcnc interfaces that they can show?
[11:50:36] <furrywolf> I'm hoping to do it with as few parts as possible... I could toss in pair of dividers and an opamp to scale the output...
[11:51:10] <furrywolf> I don't need a C compiler, but a linux-friendly assembler and tools for getting code onto the chip are needed.
[11:52:30] <pcw_home> maybe a 5V AVR dont know much about them
[11:52:50] <SpeedEvil> I _think_ some of the MSP430s also have DAC
[11:52:59] <SpeedEvil> Also - what speed of DAC - what for?
[11:53:12] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: how much of the FPGA is left in the 6i24 if you're only going to use 3 servos?
[11:54:12] <furrywolf> running the whole loop at 50hz is probably plenty. (read both analog inputs, read the digital input and do some timing on it, multiply, set analog output).
[11:55:02] <archivist> os1r1s, there are many ways of customising eg a simple axis mod http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/JS/IMG_1731.JPG
[11:55:07] <furrywolf> my intake design on my subaru is pissing off the MAF sensor. some newer ECUs have a MAF scaling table to fix this problem, but mine does not. figure it's plenty easy to build a little box that scales the maf signal before the ecu ever sees it.
[11:55:36] <archivist> is the maf active or not
[11:55:49] <os1r1s> archivist: Understood. I'm just looking for examples for inspiration :)
[11:55:56] <furrywolf> just a lookup table with rpm on one axis, throttle position on the other, and a scaling factor for each spot.
[11:56:22] <furrywolf> I can do it all with fixed-precision math, no fpu needed. but I do need a non-stupid 16x8 multiply.
[11:56:31] <SWPLinux> furrywolf: AVR then
[11:56:36] <SpeedEvil> 16 bit DAC output seems overkill
[11:56:43] <SWPLinux> PIC can't even keep track of its own carry, let alone multiply
[11:56:45] <archivist> 6502 can do that
[11:56:58] <SWPLinux> 6502 needs external memory and I/O
[11:57:13] <archivist> pfft minor detail
[11:57:18] <SWPLinux> heh, yeah
[11:57:31] <SpeedEvil> 16 bit / 50hz PWM is only 4MHz
[11:57:35] <SpeedEvil> could do it that way
[11:57:37] <SWPLinux> 6809 or Z80 would do it too
[11:58:27] <archivist> I did torque speed and power 200 times a sec on a 2 meg 6502 :)
[11:58:47] <furrywolf> it's a resonance issue... the intake resonates at certain rpm and throttle position combinations, causing massive overfueling, bad enough that the engine completely cuts out until you change throttle position or the rpm changes out of the bad spot. on 2004+ ECUs you can tune the ecu to eiliminate this, but on my 1996 ecu....
[11:58:58] <SWPLinux> more like 3 MHz base clock, but that only gets you one PWM cycle in 20 ms - no room for adjustments and/or large caps for filtering
[11:59:27] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: yes, 16 is overkill. hence why I specified 12-16 bits, as 12 would be plenty, but more bits won't hurt.
[11:59:38] <furrywolf> I want minimal parts count.
[11:59:45] <archivist> put some baffles in the intake to remove the resonance
[11:59:47] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: what is the input sensors?
[11:59:53] <furrywolf> I only need about 8 pins. :P
[12:00:37] <furrywolf> archivist: no one I've found online has managed to fix it with intake modifications. subaru fixed it with this huge lumpy box thing, but when people put the engine in another vehicle, there's no way to get the box thing in.
[12:01:05] <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could work out the frequency response of the box...
[12:01:59] <SpeedEvil> I'd be tempted to ignore the existing MAF, and use a couple of pressure sensors
[12:02:28] <archivist> or change the pipe to a very thin walled rubber and thick foam to damp it
[12:03:08] <SpeedEvil> I am assuming the sensor is a hot wire anemometer
[12:03:42] <furrywolf> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2336567174_726e761897_o.png summarizes the problem well. my peak is only from about 1000 to 1500rpm. the blue and green lines are with the big box thing, the yellow line is without it.
[12:04:11] <furrywolf> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2335732841_5c1781e4c7_o.png sensor voltage during that
[12:05:11] <SpeedEvil> That looks like 8 bits should be entirely adequate
[12:05:26] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: except you need the extra bits near idle.
[12:05:44] <furrywolf> there's a very large dynamic range covered between idle and full throttle high speed...
[12:06:09] <SpeedEvil> 'very large'? 2-3.6V?
[12:06:22] <furrywolf> very large range of airflow
[12:06:29] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:06:43] <furrywolf> you need to accurately measure the tiny bit of air squishing through at idle.
[12:07:03] <SpeedEvil> The above looks like you could do it with an 556 and an analog switch.
[12:07:26] <furrywolf> ... ?
[12:07:45] <SpeedEvil> Trigger off RPM, to give a nice slope, up to 2000RPM at which you use the actual sensor
[12:07:52] <SpeedEvil> err - nvm
[12:08:00] <SpeedEvil> that'll work fine for wide-open-throttle
[12:08:10] <furrywolf> what part of it also depending on throttle position was missed? lol
[12:08:19] <SpeedEvil> sorry - I'm not very awake
[12:08:27] <furrywolf> and you need to base it on an actual airflow measurement, not make numbers up. lol
[12:08:43] <SpeedEvil> There are rather inexpensive digital pressure sensors
[12:08:45] <SpeedEvil> nowadays
[12:08:58] <furrywolf> and this has what, exactly, to do with pressure?
[12:09:40] <furrywolf> are you suggesting I replace the perfectly functional hotwire MAF with some homebuilt kludge of trying to measure airflow with pressure differentials, which probably wouldn't even fix the problem?
[12:10:01] <furrywolf> see, this is why I didn't describe the application. all I did was ask for a specific microcontroller suggestion!
[12:10:57] <archivist> too many microcontrollers to chose from error
[12:11:05] <SpeedEvil> Quite
[12:11:28] <furrywolf> lol
[12:11:54] <SpeedEvil> I would be astounded if you can't do it with an 8 bit DAC/ADC
[12:12:00] <SpeedEvil> and that's going to be a lot more common
[12:12:10] <furrywolf> then be astounded.
[12:12:13] <SpeedEvil> But MSP430 has lots of high-analog parts cheap enough
[12:14:04] <CaptHindsight> does the micro require a fully open source compiler and tool chain as well? :)
[12:16:06] <furrywolf> idle is around 2-3 grams/second of airflow. to pick a random number, let's say you can't have steps more than 2% of that to avoid weird air/fuel ratio issues. so, we need to measure to .04 grams/second precision. full power is is around 250-300 grams/second, which is 7500 times our precision. actually, looks like I need 13 bit, not 12 bit, using those numbers.
[12:16:26] <furrywolf> and it's actually even worse than that, because the maf voltage doesn't span nearly the full range. I probably should go with 16 bit.
[12:16:48] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: <furrywolf> I don't need a C compiler, but a linux-friendly assembler and tools for getting code onto the chip are needed.
[12:16:51] <SpeedEvil> You're assuming there is no noise.
[12:17:16] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: it's all double-shielded wire, for a reason.
[12:17:36] <SpeedEvil> If there is any noise on the input signal at all - even half a bit it dithers the ADC resolution and a software filter gives you a nice smooth average
[12:18:06] <furrywolf> also, I may be a redneck, but I'm not going to stick any components of lower precision than the ECU's ADC in the path!
[12:18:26] <archivist> averaging will filter out the resonance
[12:18:35] <SpeedEvil> That too - if you sample fast enough
[12:18:41] <SpeedEvil> I'm assuming that that's not the issue though
[12:18:53] <furrywolf> the other option I thought of was to use a brain-damaged chip with 8bit adc and dac, and an analog multiplier, so I never actually convert the maf signal.
[12:18:58] <SpeedEvil> The MAF does not respond to each half of airflow
[12:19:34] <furrywolf> bit, that's another component, and analog multipliers are more expensive than microcontrollers.
[12:19:36] <SpeedEvil> That is - it will respond identically to oscillatory airflow and smooth airflow - without actually being able to be sampled fast enough
[12:20:25] <furrywolf> yes. the maf is reporting the total airflow, and not reading the vibrations. the hotwire doesn't respond nearly that fast.
[12:25:11] <furrywolf> I could try building my own resonator, but it would have to be between the throttle body and the MAF, rather than at the air filter end like the stock box, and such designing far exceeds my skills.
[12:25:42] <zeeshan> [12:46:58] <furrywolf> are you suggesting I replace the perfectly functional hotwire MAF with some homebuilt kludge of trying to measure airflow with pressure differentials, which probably wouldn't even fix the problem?
[12:25:43] <zeeshan> ROFL
[12:26:28] <zeeshan> ps i've never seen a resonator
[12:26:31] <zeeshan> cause a bad maf reading
[12:26:47] <zeeshan> that's the first thing i rip out of an intake
[12:26:50] <zeeshan> cause they're a nuisance
[12:26:57] <zeeshan> even they do serve a good purpose
[12:27:40] <zeeshan> grab a wideband
[12:27:45] <zeeshan> hax the ecu
[12:27:49] <furrywolf> zeeshan: it's pretty well documented on these cars. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1471819 is the most complete thread I've found on the topic. WARNING DANGER DANGER: There is seriously brain-hurting stupidity in some of the later pages of that thread.
[12:27:52] <zeeshan> tune the lean spot out
[12:27:59] <alex4nder> I'm with zeeshan
[12:28:16] <furrywolf> I mean stupidity of the type that makes you thinks humans should be fed into meat grinders and used as cattle feed.
[12:28:17] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: look at the above graph.
[12:28:26] <SpeedEvil> It's not really a tunable out thingy
[12:28:44] <SpeedEvil> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2335732841_5c1781e4c7_o.png - that one
[12:29:08] <alex4nder> just do a MAP conversion with a microcontroller
[12:29:12] <alex4nder> your life will suck so much less
[12:29:23] <zeeshan> haha
[12:29:27] <zeeshan> faking maf
[12:29:29] <zeeshan> always causing issues
[12:29:41] <SpeedEvil> Or just skip it and stick on a carb
[12:29:41] <furrywolf> zeeshan: my older ECU has no reprogramming abilities that don't involve desoldering rom chips.
[12:29:44] <zeeshan> well all i see inthat graph is
[12:29:48] <zeeshan> RUN A 3" INTAKE
[12:29:52] <zeeshan> problem SOLVED!
[12:29:59] <os1r1s> Does John Thornton hang out here?
[12:30:16] <furrywolf> zeeshan: then you're not reading the graph well enough, since the yellow line (that sucks horribly) is what happens when you do that.
[12:30:29] <zeeshan> the green line
[12:30:31] <zeeshan> says 3" hybrid
[12:30:35] <zeeshan> whatever that means
[12:31:14] <furrywolf> the green line is what happens if you run a 3" pipe straight from the throttle body to the stock resonator, demonstrating that it is the resonator that's fixing the problem, and the problem isn't caused by the ricer piping.
[12:31:29] <PetefromTn_> WOW that lye solution removed ALL of the anodizing I did yesterday leaving a nice clean part...COOL!!
[12:32:05] <furrywolf> they tried every combination... the resonator box is definitively the factor between working and not working.
[12:32:10] <PetefromTn_> so after etching it in the lye bath, cleaning it off, degreasing it again, then etching it again just a touch more the part looks perfectly clean and smooth
[12:32:26] <CaptHindsight> great
[12:32:28] <zeeshan> too bad most ecu tuning software dont have a filter
[12:32:37] <furrywolf> now wash (to get lye off) and anodize again. :P
[12:32:48] <furrywolf> again, my ecu is too old for any tuning.
[12:33:02] <PetefromTn_> so I just popped it back into the anodizing bath and started the anodizing current at .5 amps
[12:33:27] <zeeshan> furrywolf: arent you an electronics expert
[12:33:27] <alex4nder> furrywolf: why not just run a newer ECU/
[12:33:32] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: how did your anodising work?
[12:33:34] <zeeshan> why dont you just filter that shit out
[12:33:36] <zeeshan> using hardware
[12:33:42] <furrywolf> alex_joni: because I'd need the newer engine to go with it. :)
[12:33:46] <PetefromTn_> SpeedEvil Like Fido's ass basically LOL
[12:33:57] <SpeedEvil> :)
[12:34:05] <furrywolf> zeeshan: .. THAT'S WHAT I WAS PLANNING ON. argh. lol
[12:34:06] <SpeedEvil> Uneven colour?
[12:34:09] <zeeshan> shit even an an arduino can do that
[12:34:09] <PetefromTn_> anyways I restarted the anodizing
[12:34:15] <zeeshan> throw that shit through the adc
[12:34:19] <zeeshan> code some nonsense up
[12:34:23] <zeeshan> output right
[12:34:24] <PetefromTn_> and gonna keep it at .5 amps for 20 minutes as suggested
[12:34:30] <furrywolf> zeeshan: ... did you read any part of the conversation?
[12:34:36] <zeeshan> but i dont know about having a arduino sitting in the engine bay
[12:34:36] <PetefromTn_> then I will bump it up to 1 amp for the remainder of the 120 minute
[12:34:43] <zeeshan> i guess you could it put it near the ecu
[12:34:46] <zeeshan> nope
[12:34:58] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> microcontroller suggestions, anyone? I need something with a 12-16 bit ADC, an 8-16 bit ADC, 12-16 bit DAC, at least one digital input pin, the ability to do a 16x8 (or 16x16) multiply in a non-obscene timeframe, at least 2K of eeprom or flash, and 5V for the analog in and out.
[12:35:16] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> my intake design on my subaru is pissing off the MAF sensor. some newer ECUs have a MAF scaling table to fix this problem, but mine does not. figure it's plenty easy to build a little box that scales the maf signal before the ecu ever sees it. <furrywolf> just a lookup table with rpm on one axis, throttle position on the other, and a scaling factor for each spot.
[12:35:16] <zeeshan> arduino?
[12:35:17] <zeeshan> ;p
[12:35:18] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: make notes so you can keep track
[12:35:30] <zeeshan> furrywolf: AH
[12:35:34] <zeeshan> so it IS a maf scaling issue
[12:35:35] <PetefromTn_> so this time I will just remove the part from the anodizing bath, let it dry completely, then dye it, let THAT dry completely and then seal it
[12:35:41] <zeeshan> okay, cause when i changed my maf on my eclipse
[12:35:44] <zeeshan> i had to scale the maf
[12:35:51] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight I will
[12:36:02] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: then when problems come up in the future you'll be able to see what parameters have an effect
[12:36:07] <PetefromTn_> it sure was nice to see the etch bath clean the part so thoroughly
[12:36:23] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the issue has been determined to be caused by resonance. the valve openings set up air pulses, and between 1000 and 1500 rpm, they nicely travel through the intake, and the maf measures the air twice.
[12:36:44] <zeeshan> divide by 2
[12:36:47] <alex4nder> laf
[12:36:49] <zeeshan> lol
[12:36:50] <alex4nder> just filter it
[12:36:52] <furrywolf> it's not an overall maf scaling - it's only between two rpm points, and it's affected by throttle positioning as well.
[12:37:02] <CaptHindsight> thats why anodizing isn't perfect, it's easily attacked by alkalines
[12:37:02] <alex4nder> put a low-pass filter in it with some radioshack parts
[12:37:03] <alex4nder> done
[12:37:12] <zeeshan> wouldnt you want a high pass filter
[12:37:13] <furrywolf> you can't just scale the maf value without also looking at rpm and throttle position, as the same maf values are correct at other points.
[12:37:15] <zeeshan> cause it happens on the lower end
[12:37:18] <alex4nder> zeeshan: no
[12:37:23] <alex4nder> the noise is high frequency
[12:37:29] <zeeshan> ah okay
[12:38:05] <furrywolf> the noise isn't readable on the maf signal. the thermal mass and response time of the hotwire circuit forms a lowpass filter already. it's a clean output, at substantially over the correct value.
[12:38:07] <furrywolf> a filter won't help.
[12:38:11] * zeeshan blames subuarus shitty intake manifold design
[12:38:23] <zeeshan> prolly not large enough plenum
[12:38:27] <CaptHindsight> her here
[12:38:42] <PetefromTn_> it is an interesting process
[12:38:52] <alex4nder> furrywolf: oh, that's weak.
[12:38:58] <PetefromTn_> I hope I can master it here and enjoy years of making cool pretty colorful parts YAY!!
[12:39:12] <furrywolf> some newer ecus have a table with rpm, throttle position, and maf scaling value. I just plan to implement that same table in an external device.
[12:39:31] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: while you're making cool stuff, please invent a device that makes people read what other people say before answering. :)
[12:40:14] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf Nah I will just make a device that makes people stop complaining about every damn thing on public forums I believe
[12:40:46] <zeeshan> hptuners ftw!
[12:40:50] <furrywolf> lol
[12:40:52] <zeeshan> ill never go back to aftermarket ecu ever again
[12:40:53] <CaptHindsight> I hate when people do that
[12:41:27] <alex4nder> zeeshan: plz
[12:41:40] <furrywolf> zeeshan: of the stupidity on that thread, my favorite is still the person who read that the stock airbox and resonator box were very important, so left them in place, with the maf connected to them... and stuck a cone filter directly on the throttle body.
[12:41:53] <zeeshan> :D
[12:41:56] <furrywolf> with nothing between the two
[12:42:15] <archivist> he also has nothing between his ears
[12:42:28] <zeeshan> i bet it LOOKS COOL
[12:42:35] <furrywolf> and at least a half dozen people thinking that somehow leaving the resonator box installed in the vehicle, with no air flowing through it, is enough to fix the problem.
[12:43:06] <CaptHindsight> it probably effects the engines Aura
[12:43:12] <furrywolf> it took about twenty posts to explain to that guy that the MAF sensor needs to measure the airflow _going to the engine_.
[12:45:21] <furrywolf> so, the only useful things I saw in this discussion were MSP430s and AVRs being good choices for the specs I need...
[12:45:48] <furrywolf> or, should I just go with the analog multiplier plan, and use a completely stupid uC?
[12:46:21] <CaptHindsight> not many available single chip options with 5V IO
[12:47:18] <furrywolf> everything in the car is 5V... the power I have, the three signals I have coming in, and the one signal I have going out...
[12:49:38] <pcw_home> "pcw_home: how much of the FPGA is left in the 6i24 if you're only going to use 3 servos?"
[12:49:39] <pcw_home> maybe 90 %+ (of a xc6slx16)
[12:49:46] <zeeshan> furrywolf: if you use a tarduino
[12:49:51] <zeeshan> you can datalog some other shit! :p
[12:49:52] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: great
[12:50:29] <furrywolf> I could also try building a resonator box at a different location in the intake system. stock is throttle body -> maf -> filter -> resonator. I could to TB -> resonator -> maf -> filter. I have some spare space near the tb, but none near the filter.
[12:50:36] <furrywolf> but, my knowledge of the fields needed to design a resonator box is quite lacking.
[12:51:09] <robin> heres an idea
[12:51:18] <robin> why not buy a decent car?
[12:51:25] <zeeshan> rofl
[12:51:39] <zeeshan> only robin can be destructive
[12:51:46] <PetefromTn_> OK up to 1 amp now...
[12:51:49] <PetefromTn_> actually 1.1
[12:51:51] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[12:51:59] <PetefromTn_> looks like it is cooking
[12:52:00] <robin> now measure voltage
[12:52:23] <furrywolf> robin: and what do you consider decent? I have a reasonably fast, fuel-efficient, capable off-road vehicle with lots of cargo room, comfortable seating, that drives nice and smooth.
[12:52:32] <PetefromTn_> voltage is right at 12v
[12:52:44] <robin> 12.00?
[12:52:52] <zeeshan> furrywolf has anyone done it like you;re describing?
[12:52:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah is that a problem
[12:53:03] <zeeshan> with the resonator moved between the tb and maf
[12:53:19] <furrywolf> zeeshan: moving the resonator, or an external scaler uC? not as far as I know.
[12:53:32] <robin> no, just checking unusual for it to be dead on a volt
[12:53:51] <zeeshan> i took a class on acoustics where we covered resonators
[12:53:56] <robin> anyway, by the time it is cooked, itt should rise
[12:54:02] <PetefromTn_> well it varies
[12:54:07] <PetefromTn_> just happens to be there now
[12:54:13] <zeeshan> from what i recall
[12:54:22] <zeeshan> i mean if resonance is the problem
[12:54:24] <furrywolf> cooked... good term. :)
[12:54:40] <zeeshan> that means the plenum volume is incorrect
[12:54:42] <PetefromTn_> Do you think the fact that I have a small single part in such a large container is a problem?
[12:54:44] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: http://imagebin.ca/v/28D3LRO00bQ8 the inkjet DNA synthesizer motion control, digital IO and printhead control should all fit in a 6i24
[12:54:56] <robin> furrywolf, hers what I have had to do on my Ford to get it to run right ...
[12:55:00] <zeeshan> so when you do add a resonator, its the volume of the resonator that makes the most differnce, and opening size
[12:55:10] <archivist> PetefromTn_, doubt it
[12:55:11] <zeeshan> rather than the placement of it along the pipe
[12:55:27] <robin> you know the Ford MAF and intake system on their turbo diesels?
[12:55:29] <PetefromTn_> what about the depth of the part in the solution is that a concern at all
[12:55:58] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: you are building some fancy thing
[12:55:59] <zeeshan> :D
[12:56:06] <furrywolf> no, all the ford turbodiesels I've worked on had a spider. (IDI, mechanical injection pump)
[12:56:24] <robin> well, I had to leave it the fuck alone. I put fuel in the tanks and turn the key. if it cut out at varying RPM I would call it faulty and take it t odealer
[12:56:31] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: just a DNA synthesizer, fancy printer is all
[12:57:03] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/PG4ITj1.jpg
[12:57:05] <furrywolf> robin: I put a newer subaru motor into an old car. this problem only happens on modified vehicles.
[12:57:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/UdvWBEP.jpg
[12:57:10] <zeeshan> last nights action
[12:57:22] <zeeshan> i still need to bead roll the smaller ends
[12:57:58] <robin> furrywolf, why not just keep the newer car that was once wappd around the engine?
[12:58:27] <zeeshan> furrywolf: people who have stock cars are boring
[12:58:31] <pcw_home> yeah should easily fit
[12:58:32] <furrywolf> robin: new engine, swapped in EFI system (custom wiring harness, etc), new transmission (that fits neither the engine nor the car), bellhousing adapter (to make the engine and transmission fit), new tranny mounts and driveshaft carrier mounts (to make the tranny and car fit), etc...
[12:58:33] <pcw_home> I am working on a laser raster data hm2module that should be extendable for inkjet use
[12:58:54] <robin> my brother has RX7 with a retrfitte triple rotor
[12:59:06] <robin> he uses WAY less gas than me ...
[12:59:16] <zeeshan> there is something wrong with your truck then!
[12:59:21] <furrywolf> lol
[12:59:27] <robin> nope
[12:59:29] <zeeshan> a rotary is 213890123809130982309 worse than a v8
[12:59:33] <robin> mines fine
[12:59:35] <furrywolf> I seem to be getting around 25mpg... I was hoping for more, but I think the lift kills the aerodynamics a bit.
[12:59:41] <robin> his runs 3 or 4 days a year
[12:59:42] <zeeshan> i used to get like 8 mpg with a 2 rotor
[12:59:49] <furrywolf> (25mpg combined city/highway)
[12:59:52] <zeeshan> (but it was heavily modified)
[12:59:59] <robin> he gets close to 600 bhp on his triple
[13:00:09] <zeeshan> theres no way he's not gas guzzling then
[13:00:15] <furrywolf> my completely stock truck gets 8mpg. :P
[13:01:08] <PetefromTn_> that may be so but I am sure it sounds FREAKING AWESOME!!
[13:01:16] <pcw_home> streamer --> halstreamer --> hal --> hm2_bitspitter (FIFO and selectable clock source either servo thread xN via DPLL or stepgen/encoder * ratemult)
[13:01:25] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: it sounds like a weed wacker
[13:01:27] <furrywolf> the extra ground clearance is nice, and it's not using too much extra gas... lift++ :P
[13:01:33] <zeeshan> angry weed wacker
[13:01:44] <PetefromTn_> no it sounds like a freaking angry indy car or something LOL
[13:02:05] * furrywolf sends robin's friend a lift kit for an rx7
[13:02:08] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: for this printhead it just needs a shift register, state machine and registers to store waveforms that the DAC outputs
[13:02:08] <furrywolf> s/friend/brother
[13:02:17] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0cW14oKYzM
[13:02:21] <zeeshan> i think this sounds wayyyyyyyyyyy better than a rotary
[13:02:59] <PetefromTn_> naah
[13:03:08] <pcw_home> yeah even the x16 has 64KBytes of BlockRAM so typically enough for FIFOs and a few tables
[13:03:16] <furrywolf> those manifolds look heavy.
[13:03:28] <zeeshan> how heavy do you think they are? =D
[13:03:29] <zeeshan> curious
[13:03:47] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCY2QQNmiGE
[13:03:49] <zeeshan> rotary weed wacker
[13:03:50] <zeeshan> :D
[13:03:52] <furrywolf> how thick is the tube? :P
[13:03:57] <zeeshan> im not telling you!
[13:04:00] <zeeshan> you said they look heavy
[13:04:01] <zeeshan> you tell me
[13:04:07] <furrywolf> 20lbs each
[13:04:17] <zeeshan> okay lemme measure
[13:06:46] <furrywolf> I originally figured more, but the way you said that made me think you tried to make them light, so I scaled back my estimate. :P
[13:07:41] <zeeshan> 13 lb right side
[13:07:48] <zeeshan> 12 lb left
[13:07:49] <zeeshan> so pretty close
[13:08:07] <zeeshan> its schledure 40 pipe
[13:08:13] <zeeshan> so about .140 thick
[13:08:34] <zeeshan> i could have made them from .0625 tubing
[13:08:35] <furrywolf> overkill? :)
[13:08:43] <zeeshan> but in my experience, those crack way too easy
[13:09:08] <zeeshan> i use the combination i know has worked for me and other manifolds ive made for others
[13:09:15] <furrywolf> I used most of the stock exhaust parts that came with the new engine, with the plumbing around the cats cut and rewelded to make it fit the different body.
[13:09:18] <zeeshan> sch40 mild steel or stainless
[13:09:26] <zeeshan> weld, post weld stress relief
[13:09:30] <zeeshan> it'll outlast the car
[13:10:02] <zeeshan> stock manifolds are cast iron?
[13:10:07] <furrywolf> I was thinking of making a shiny manifold for my truck, then I found someone with a stock one I could buy cheap.
[13:10:15] <furrywolf> no, on a subaru they're welded tube.
[13:10:30] <zeeshan> oh yea i forgot
[13:10:32] <furrywolf> I only have one exhaust port on each head, after all. :)
[13:10:32] <zeeshan> we have a boxer
[13:10:39] <zeeshan> (shows you how little i work on the subie)
[13:10:47] <zeeshan> i've opened the engine bay like 3 times
[13:10:50] <zeeshan> for oil changes and filter change
[13:10:51] <zeeshan> haha
[13:10:59] <furrywolf> my truck's an inline 6... my stock manifold cracked clean around in several places.
[13:11:20] <zeeshan> its a ford 150?
[13:11:29] <zeeshan> those are notorious for blowing up manifolds
[13:11:31] <furrywolf> and it's a rare truck, which of course means a rare exhaust manifold... finally found one.
[13:11:35] <zeeshan> and destroying exhaust manifold studs
[13:11:39] <furrywolf> kaiser 230.
[13:11:42] <zeeshan> oh
[13:11:47] <furrywolf> (the engine)
[13:12:37] <furrywolf> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/1963_Jeep_Pickup_FL_engine-R.jpg looks like that. :)
[13:12:48] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy9Iq9x3o4E
[13:12:51] <zeeshan> V8 ftw!!!
[13:12:56] <zeeshan> you see the smile on that guys face?
[13:13:01] <zeeshan> you wont see that on a rotary guys face
[13:13:03] <zeeshan> jk
[13:13:19] <furrywolf> well, mine doesn't actually look like that. mine looks like that but with 50 years of road grime, because I'm not an obsessive who polishes my engine. :)
[13:15:38] <zeeshan> furrywolf: come help me do my harness
[13:15:44] <zeeshan> i got a LOT of wiring to do
[13:15:45] <zeeshan> a fucking lot!
[13:16:06] * furrywolf only likes harnesses on women
[13:16:29] <zeeshan> i think todays goal is to finish welding off the manifold
[13:16:34] <zeeshan> bead roll the ic pipe
[13:16:51] <furrywolf> I've done a couple EFI harnesses... it's not too bad. mostly just take your time.
[13:16:57] <zeeshan> yea man
[13:17:02] <zeeshan> but i have to do the accessory harness too
[13:17:09] <zeeshan> i removed a lot of nonsense
[13:17:13] <zeeshan> fd has 4 fan relays
[13:17:15] <zeeshan> i dont need that shit
[13:17:15] <_methods> os1r1s: yeah he hangs out in here
[13:17:23] <zeeshan> just one on off is fine
[13:17:37] <_methods> he is on the road right now though
[13:17:58] <zeeshan> im thinking of routing all my gauge wires with the ecu harness..
[13:18:23] <os1r1s> _methods: I was going to thank him for the gladevcp tutorial. It worked well to see how to add custom stuff into the display.
[13:18:28] <zeeshan> oil pressure, fuel pressure, 2x wideband o2 sensors, vac/pressure, coolant temp, oil temp
[13:18:33] <malcom2073> Yeah wiring harnesses are fun, you gotta get the multi-colorered-striped wire
[13:18:34] <_methods> yeah he's not in here right now
[13:18:43] <_methods> he's in alaska and has been popping in and out
[13:18:44] <furrywolf> first, label all the connectors / relays / cut wires / etc. then cut off all the original split loom and tape. remove anything not useful anymore - like headlight wiring for the engine-donor car while you're using your car's wiring, etc. start grouping things by where they need to be now, rather than where they needed to be on the stock car.
[13:19:08] <_methods> os1r1s: he's made quite a few tutorials
[13:20:07] <furrywolf> run all wires that will need power to where power is available on your vehicle, etc. try to have a general idea where firewall passthroughs and harness splits will need to be. then start splicing on new connectors, etc as appropriate.
[13:20:24] <zeeshan> i wanna change it up a bit though furry
[13:20:31] <zeeshan> like on the firewall side i want amphenol connectors
[13:20:36] <zeeshan> cause its the "race car"
[13:20:42] <zeeshan> neds to be easy to work on
[13:20:57] <zeeshan> im planning to boost the shit out of the engine when it's on the road
[13:21:01] <furrywolf> if you need to extend wires, my experience is there's virtually always more wire of the same color elsewhere in the vehicle, like the body harness. USE IT. splices that change color in the middle of the harness will make everyone want to kill you, including you.
[13:21:02] <zeeshan> i was running 8psi before
[13:21:08] <zeeshan> this year im hoping to hit 16
[13:21:13] <zeeshan> on a 10:1 motor!
[13:21:55] <zeeshan> i also need teflon wire for my coolant temp sensor
[13:22:02] <furrywolf> on my subaru swap, I used entirely properly colored wires, found in the body and transmission harnesses off the engine donor vehicle.
[13:22:11] <zeeshan> cause it comes about 1.5" to 2" away from the turbine
[13:22:13] <PetefromTn_> Damn this Anodizing is HARD
[13:22:23] <PetefromTn_> Hard waiting for it to cook ;)
[13:22:23] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: the process or the result?
[13:22:31] <CaptHindsight> hardness or difficult?
[13:22:35] <furrywolf> because hard anodizing is a good thing. :P
[13:22:39] <PetefromTn_> I was just kidding
[13:22:50] <PetefromTn_> its hard waiting for it to cook for two hours hehe
[13:22:53] <_methods> you take pics of it after you stripped it?
[13:23:03] <PetefromTn_> no I forgot sorry
[13:23:06] <CaptHindsight> or it didn't happen
[13:23:12] <_methods> heheh
[13:23:13] <PetefromTn_> but it just looked smooth and clean
[13:23:21] <_methods> k
[13:23:22] <PetefromTn_> kinda matte looking
[13:23:30] <PetefromTn_> all silver
[13:23:41] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: can you setup a webcam?
[13:23:44] <_methods> so how much do you have sunk into your anodizing line now?
[13:23:48] <os1r1s> _methods: Now If I could just find how to make it send NML messages to a different PC running linuxcnc
[13:23:50] <PetefromTn_> Seriously?
[13:23:51] <furrywolf> turn up the current so it cooks faster. I'm sure I've seen 12A/ft2 somewhere...
[13:24:10] <PetefromTn_> _methods Probably $600.00 or more
[13:24:21] <_methods> most of that power supply?
[13:24:30] <PetefromTn_> there is a lot of little bullshit you need
[13:24:31] <CaptHindsight> 1/2
[13:24:34] <PetefromTn_> no actually
[13:24:43] <PetefromTn_> the power supply was pretty reasonable
[13:24:56] <_methods> you get one off ebay?
[13:25:00] <PetefromTn_> I have $120 just in the dyes
[13:25:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah a chinese one off fleabay
[13:25:31] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/KyRc698.jpg
[13:25:34] <CaptHindsight> $120 for dye, what a rip :)
[13:25:43] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah I know right hehehe
[13:25:54] <furrywolf> lol
[13:26:16] <zeeshan> hey
[13:26:19] <zeeshan> how much was that power supply?
[13:26:29] <CaptHindsight> enough for >1K parts
[13:26:48] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight I was just busting your chops man
[13:27:02] <PetefromTn_> I am pleased with our transaction ;)
[13:27:23] <PetefromTn_> the power supply was like $80
[13:27:24] <CaptHindsight> you can mix dye to make other colors
[13:27:34] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am looking forward to that
[13:28:27] <PetefromTn_> $120 for dye, what a rip....that's hilarious!!
[13:29:11] <robinsz> so why exactly does the 2.6.x CD ship with gedit configured as the default editor, and it's not installed?
[13:29:43] <robinsz> default editor for Axis I meant
[13:30:10] <furrywolf> heh, is that why edit doesn't work? I noticed it didn't, but haven't poked at it yet.
[13:30:44] <robinsz> i havent found the calculator yet ... I'm sure there must be one, machinists always need a calculator
[13:31:43] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: it's made from the finest materials, German black, Canadian ethanol, US butyl acetate etc etc
[13:32:12] <robinsz> dyes are never cheap
[13:32:35] <robinsz> but you drag out very little each time
[13:32:55] <PetefromTn_> just made a little video!
[13:33:15] <furrywolf> a video of watching aluminum anodize? is it like watching paint dry?
[13:33:25] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Yeah I think if I can figure out how this works properly I should enjoy the black dye
[13:33:29] <PetefromTn_> YUP
[13:33:32] <PetefromTn_> Lucky you
[13:33:37] <robinsz> but wetter
[13:34:26] <zeeshan> 80 bux nice!
[13:34:28] <zeeshan> i need one
[13:34:42] <CaptHindsight> brb
[13:36:39] <furrywolf> I'm not sure how to test adding a resonator by the throttle body... very disinclined to hack up my working intake for tests, but I don't have another intake that fits the car (I had to do a lot of customizing to make one for).
[13:36:47] <furrywolf> s/make one for/make one fit
[13:37:06] <robinsz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCFWtQw0-bk
[13:37:16] <robinsz> watch for the fumes at 45 seconds
[13:39:07] <PetefromTn_> Cool
[13:39:12] <PetefromTn_> uploading to youtube
[13:40:52] <PetefromTn_> never could figure out how to make my cellphone videos the full wide screen
[13:41:54] <furrywolf> lol! found a factory-made product that does what I was going to use a little uC to do... $500!
[13:42:52] <furrywolf> "The AFC Neo boasts an incredible 16 points of user definable fuel correction. " oh, wow, 16 points! lol
[13:43:28] <furrywolf> " The AFC modifies the air flow meter/ pressure sensor signal voltage going to the factory ECU"
[13:43:37] <furrywolf> so... what I was going to do with $10 of parts.
[13:48:00] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FjwHdGCpPg&feature=youtu.be
[13:49:20] <Deejay> hmm, a pete video!
[13:49:55] <tiwake> yesterday was a day of making stuff out of steel
[13:50:20] <tiwake> today is switching to confections
[13:51:10] <zeeshan> youre cooking aluminum!
[13:51:39] <PetefromTn_> Yup a PETE video sorry in advance LOL
[13:51:41] * furrywolf has done nothing useful in three weeks now. :(
[13:52:07] <tiwake> zeeshan: heh, true... used a couple aluminum cake pans
[13:53:13] <PetefromTn_> does that look like it is working correctly those of you who have actually anodized things before?
[13:53:14] <tiwake> with a touch of teflon
[13:53:27] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: how did your anodizing go yesterday?
[13:53:42] <PetefromTn_> NOT TOO GOOD!!
[13:53:49] <tiwake> heh, nice
[13:53:56] <tiwake> but it will soon, right?
[13:54:01] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: What doesn't scar us permanently makes us stronger
[13:54:11] <malcom2073> It seems I've aquired a second lathe
[13:54:16] <malcom2073> Time to sell my southbend!
[13:54:33] <PetefromTn_> os1r1s or scares the crap out of us so we NEVER do it again ;)
[13:54:40] <os1r1s> haha
[13:55:47] <PetefromTn_> does it look right to you guys?
[13:56:14] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: What are those bubbles made of?
[13:56:18] <_methods> oh man pete.......
[13:56:22] <_methods> camera wrong way
[13:56:23] <PetefromTn_> BAD STUFF
[13:56:34] <PetefromTn_> how do you mean?
[13:56:39] * _methods pistol whips pete
[13:56:45] <furrywolf> zeeshan: so, for a resonator, does it need to be something fancy shaped, or would just a cylinder teed off the intake work? I'm thinking []= type thing stuck off the side of the pipe...
[13:56:47] <_methods> hahah
[13:57:08] <malcom2073> _methods: Thank you.
[13:57:17] <malcom2073> The beatings will continue until camera rotation improves
[13:57:21] <PetefromTn_> how do you get the camera to show wide view
[13:57:27] <_methods> lol
[13:57:29] <malcom2073> Tilt it to the side when you record?
[13:57:30] <_methods> turn it sideways
[13:57:36] <furrywolf> that way I could build an easily adjustable volume and adjust/test drive repeatedly.
[13:58:17] <PetefromTn_> I did tilt it to the side while I recorded it
[13:58:31] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[13:58:43] <_methods> so you anodize it first then apply the dye?
[13:59:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[13:59:06] <_methods> hmm
[14:00:27] <_methods> so what locks the dye in?
[14:00:41] <furrywolf> sealer
[14:01:09] <tiwake> not really
[14:01:12] <tiwake> but kinda
[14:01:20] <tiwake> you dont need a sealer, but it helps
[14:01:30] <PetefromTn_> a boiling mixture of DI water and nickel acetate sealer
[14:01:52] <jdh> what didn't work?
[14:02:39] <tiwake> anodizing pokes holes in the surface of the aluminum, you fill those holes with dye, and you boil it to give it a thin oxide layer trapping the dye inside
[14:03:19] <tiwake> as I understand it anyway
[14:04:20] <PetefromTn_> the way I understand it is that you are actually growing a layer of aluminum oxide which is in the form of thin tubes on the surface of the part. no so much punching holes in it. but I am not sure really
[14:04:49] <tiwake> maybe
[14:05:29] <PetefromTn_> I say that because on precision parts you have to account for the anodizing layer in the dimensions but I cannot recall if you are adding or subtracting LOL
[14:05:53] <tiwake> the part grows slightly
[14:06:09] <tiwake> but that might be from the sealing part of anodizing
[14:06:14] <tiwake> not sure
[14:07:02] <PetefromTn_> curiously as in yesterday's test the voltage does not seem to be increasing during the process
[14:07:06] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: what was the problem with your anodizing yesterday?
[14:07:20] <PetefromTn_> I started at 12 volts and I am STILL at 12 volts and only about 30 minutes to go
[14:07:35] <tiwake> did the dye not stick?
[14:08:01] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FjwHdGCpPg&feature=youtu.be
[14:08:08] <furrywolf> cook longer. :)
[14:08:16] <furrywolf> there's no paths for current to flow other than through your part and the small hanging wire, right?
[14:08:26] <furrywolf> i.e. no positive wiring in the tank anywhere?
[14:08:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah as far as I can tell
[14:08:35] <furrywolf> k, just checking.
[14:08:45] <furrywolf> the voltage should definitely go up when it's done, then.
[14:08:56] <tiwake> I don't see any bubbles... hmm
[14:09:01] <PetefromTn_> the positive wire goes from the positive terminal thru the factory gator clip lead to another wire I attached to my part hanging rack
[14:09:18] <tiwake> oh there they are
[14:09:47] <PetefromTn_> the part hanging rack is not touching anything else but the part hanging from the Ti wire
[14:10:04] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/TrjtMcA.jpg
[14:10:10] <furrywolf> this time, rather than cooking a speicifc time, cook until the voltage rises?
[14:10:13] <tiwake> PetefromTn_: so what happened to your anodizing yesterday?
[14:10:13] <PetefromTn_> yesterdays failure
[14:10:28] <tiwake> oh hmm
[14:10:33] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: it was uneven, had some voids and looked thin
[14:10:50] <CaptHindsight> not a bad first try
[14:11:09] <PetefromTn_> REALLY? I thought it was a miserable failure LOL
[14:11:15] <tiwake> was the part super clean starting off, and the water is pure, evaporated water?
[14:11:35] <furrywolf> my limited understanding of anodizing is that the voltage should rise (and when you hit your voltage limit, the current drop) when it's getting done.
[14:11:39] <PetefromTn_> the water is bottled pure distilled water
[14:11:54] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: he is even cleaning, and etching first
[14:12:03] <tiwake> ok
[14:12:10] <CaptHindsight> he needs another day or two of messing with it
[14:12:15] <PetefromTn_> I am using an aluminum degreaser from Caswell mixed with DI water
[14:12:30] <tiwake> oh, normally the water is mixed while the anodizing is going on isnt it?
[14:12:31] <PetefromTn_> and I JUST setup a lye and water etching bath
[14:12:44] <os1r1s> Is there a variable that represents the maximum spindle speed that can be referenced in the gladevcp?
[14:12:54] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[14:13:00] <zeeshan> i like the way the failed part looks
[14:13:05] <zeeshan> it actually looks cool!
[14:13:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah someone else said that too LOL
[14:13:35] <PetefromTn_> I guess it looks kinda neat but not the even smooth appearance I was looking for unfortunately
[14:13:44] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I think you'll want to bubble the part too
[14:14:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am planning to do that here soon.
[14:14:15] <PetefromTn_> just trying to get the basic setup working
[14:14:16] <tiwake> id didnt look like you were not mixing the water while anodizing, I seem to recall people doing that while anodizing
[14:14:27] <tiwake> s/not//
[14:14:34] <PetefromTn_> I am going to build a large rolling kart with everything in it soon as I get it working correctly
[14:14:43] <furrywolf> I don't think you need to agitate the water when you're dying as a separate process?
[14:15:47] <tiwake> donno, I thought mixing up the acid water was to make the part anodize more evenly
[14:15:56] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: any idea of the temp of the anodizing bath?
[14:16:22] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately my thermometers I bought only go down to 100 degrees
[14:16:28] <PetefromTn_> I did not realize that when I bought them
[14:16:34] <tiwake> heh
[14:16:40] <PetefromTn_> so all I can tell you is that it is NOT 100 degrees
[14:16:42] <CaptHindsight> is it staying below 100F?
[14:16:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[14:16:54] <PetefromTn_> I will double check standby
[14:18:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-thermometer-93984.html is handy for quick spot checks
[14:18:50] <furrywolf> I have the HF IR one... be warned that like all IR thermometers, what you're aiming at changes the reading quite substantially. that is, a block of wood, a bottle of water, and a piece of aluminum, all at the same temperature, will read very differently.
[14:19:44] <furrywolf> good for checks, not good for precision. :)
[14:21:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't have an IR thermometer
[14:21:18] <furrywolf> shiny stainless and aluminum are the worst, I think.
[14:21:33] <PetefromTn_> like I said the candy thermometers we bought which are encased in glass bodies are only good above about 100 F
[14:21:47] <PetefromTn_> just put it in the anodizing bath and it is below that
[14:21:59] <PetefromTn_> but I cannot but just guess what it really is.
[14:22:05] <PetefromTn_> it is kinda hot and humid outside today
[14:22:14] <PetefromTn_> probably 90 degrees ambient
[14:22:24] <furrywolf> pick up a cheapo outdoor glass thermometer next time you're out
[14:22:53] <PetefromTn_> I have one here but it is encased in a plastic thing and I am not sure I should put it inside the acid bath
[14:23:06] <PetefromTn_> probably tear it up and contaminate the mixture
[14:23:34] <PetefromTn_> the Voltage is NOT increasing
[14:23:42] <PetefromTn_> still around 11.9-12v
[14:23:45] <PetefromTn_> still 1 amp
[14:23:51] <furrywolf> put any thermometer you have in a glass bottle and stick it in the bath. :)
[14:24:19] <furrywolf> keep cooking
[14:24:53] <PetefromTn_> I should mention that I actually increased the current slightly to 1.1 amps this time just to see if that made any difference
[14:25:26] <furrywolf> I got some tongue thermomters once because they were $1, with plans on putting them to measure the soil temps when starting pepper seeds... found out that below 96 or something they give some variant on "see a doctor" instead of telling you the temperature.
[14:25:28] <PetefromTn_> it has maintained that thru the process so far but voltage has not yet increased at all
[14:26:43] <furrywolf> I'd wait for capt to weigh in, since I have minimal experience with anodizing, but I don't think cooking until the voltage rises can hurt, and if your last part was under-cooked, might a good thing to try.
[14:27:39] <PetefromTn_> agreed
[14:28:02] <PetefromTn_> about ten minutes left
[14:30:22] <furrywolf> heh, just checked an emissivity table... polished aluminum is only 0.04 emissivity. water is 0.95. anodized aluminum is 0.77. stainless is 0.08. so, yeah... the ir thermometer will measure the baths, and will kinda measure finished parts, but won't work on fresh parts, or on the outside of the stainless pot. :)
[14:33:53] <PetefromTn_> well the part is looking about like it did yesterday in the anodizing bath
[14:34:02] <PetefromTn_> it has been in there for about 2 hours now
[14:34:30] <PetefromTn_> it does seem to have a yellowish tinge as I have read it should
[14:34:34] <greg__> I just put a piece of elecrtrical tape on shiny parts for the IR temp gun
[14:34:41] <PetefromTn_> but the voltage has not changed
[14:34:55] <PetefromTn_> it is still at about 12 volts and has not increased
[14:36:51] <greg__> I bumped into this today https://instagram.com/p/vpW7KcQOds/
[14:37:41] <furrywolf> http://chico.craigslist.org/cto/5115003620.html hrmm.... I'm not too fond of the silver+blue color scheme, but the body looks in pretty nice shape.
[14:39:45] <furrywolf> bumped into? it's a picture of a machine making some parts... is it supposed to be a 12-spindle machine or something?
[14:40:37] <furrywolf> it says "Why make one at a time when you can make 12!" but looks like a single-spindle machine to me. lol
[14:41:04] <PetefromTn_> nice X travel...
[14:41:05] <_methods> PetefromTn_: that power supply does constant current?
[14:41:24] <PetefromTn_> my machine only has 20x20x20 envelope so I am kinda jealous LOL
[14:41:39] <furrywolf> mine is 10x10x3, so I'm jealous of everything but sherline owners. :)
[14:41:40] <PetefromTn_> _methods yeah it is in Constant Current mode now
[14:42:24] <PetefromTn_> just went outside to look at it. Current went down to 1.0 and voltage went down to 11.6??
[14:42:45] <furrywolf> did you bump the current knob?
[14:42:55] <PetefromTn_> no I did not touch it
[14:43:04] <greg__> 4 vises on a table with one big bar of stock making a dozen parts
[14:43:06] <PetefromTn_> unless my wife did LOL she was out there looking at it
[14:44:23] <PetefromTn_> just tweaked the current back to 1.1 and the voltage went up to 12 again
[14:44:32] <PetefromTn_> seems like it is working no?
[14:44:51] <greg__> I made 6 parts at a time in a 4" vise once but they were tiny
[14:44:53] <PetefromTn_> but I just don't understand why the voltage does not increase during the process
[14:45:26] <PetefromTn_> Most i ever made was ten small parts in two side by side 6" vises on a gang fixture at one time
[14:45:33] <greg__> what kind of a supply is that? doesn't appear to stable in current
[14:46:08] <_methods> yeah what model supply is that
[14:46:10] <PetefromTn_> Dunno what do you call stable? I just went down .1 amps over two hours time
[14:46:14] <_methods> is that a ps305d?
[14:46:24] <PetefromTn_> it is chinese model
[14:46:26] <furrywolf> eventually the voltage will rise. :)
[14:46:34] <_methods> not if it switches
[14:46:57] <_methods> some of those supplies will switch modes automatically
[14:47:16] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271652928843?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[14:47:20] <PetefromTn_> that is the one I have
[14:47:39] <furrywolf> _methods: it will rise until it hits whatever he has the voltage set to
[14:47:41] <PetefromTn_> well timer just went off
[14:47:51] <greg__> but it was still in current mode
[14:47:55] <_methods> checking manual now
[14:48:14] <PetefromTn_> someone here told me to set the voltage knobs to somewhere in the middle
[14:48:17] <PetefromTn_> that is what I did
[14:48:39] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: disconnect the load (pull one of the output plugs out) and see what voltage it goes to.
[14:48:43] * Tom_itx wonders when the cookies will be done
[14:48:46] <PetefromTn_> not sure what they are actually set to but it seems when it is in current mode it varies voltage based on the load and current selected
[14:48:54] <greg__> it will supply constant current and voltage can rise until it hits the votlage limit, then it will reduce current
[14:49:17] <PetefromTn_> should I increase the voltage setting?
[14:49:22] <furrywolf> you probably want it set to around 15V, if 12V is the normal for your process.
[14:49:41] <greg__> don't you calculate current based on surface area?
[14:49:43] <furrywolf> you need to adjust the voltage with it in voltage mode... easiest way to do that is to unplug a wire.
[14:49:44] <PetefromTn_> actually according to the online calculator 15 volts is the max apparenlty
[14:49:58] <furrywolf> heh, good, my pulled-from-ass guess was spot on. :)
[14:50:49] <PetefromTn_> well timer is done. should I go ahead an pull it out ya think?
[14:51:17] <_methods> the manual says to set the voltage knobs to minimum
[14:52:02] <greg__> which manual
[14:52:09] <_methods> the manual for his power supply
[14:52:12] <furrywolf> I think you should leave it in until the voltage rises. make sure your voltage limit is set to 15V.
[14:52:22] <_methods> says to use current mode set both voltage knobs to min
[14:52:28] <_methods> then set current knobs to min
[14:52:31] <_methods> and hook up load
[14:52:39] <greg__> so you don't spark
[14:52:39] <_methods> then adjust current to desired current
[14:52:53] <furrywolf> to check the voltage limit, unplug one of the wires from the supply, and see what voltage it reads.
[14:53:07] <greg__> you need enough voltage to get the set current though
[14:53:43] <greg__> ohms law and all.
[14:53:59] <_methods> only your current regulator light should be on
[14:54:06] <_methods> are voltage and current on?
[14:55:08] <_methods> if both are on your current and voltage won't change because it's attempting to regulate both
[14:55:25] <furrywolf> you can't have both on.
[14:55:40] <_methods> wtf are you talking about
[14:55:45] <greg__> The light that is on indicates which is currently limiting output
[14:55:45] <furrywolf> unless you're balanced right at the tipping point where it's hitting both limits simultaneously.
[14:56:38] <_methods> so you're saying i can't set the power supply to 5v and 1A
[14:56:55] <greg__> If voltage light is on this means voltage is being regulated. If current is lit, current is being regulated.
[14:57:05] <furrywolf> I'm saying your power supply can't have both the current and the voltage mode lights on at once.
[14:57:23] <furrywolf> depending on how it's designed, it may even be impossible for both lights to be on at once.
[14:57:33] <furrywolf> even at the point where it does hit both
[14:57:35] <_methods> no it can't run voltage regulated mode and current regulated simultaneously
[14:57:48] <_methods> but it can run voltage limit and current limit
[14:57:52] <_methods> which is probably what he's doing
[14:58:05] <furrywolf> yes. that's what ALL adjustable supplies are doing.
[14:58:06] <greg__> it's a simple device
[15:00:18] <furrywolf> my bench supply has two voltage limits, just to make life more interesting. :)
[15:00:43] <greg__> two?
[15:00:43] <furrywolf> one with a big knob, the other a little screwdriver-needing knob, so you can set a "don't break shit if someone twiddle the knobs" limit.
[15:01:02] <greg__> Oh, i suppose mine does that too
[15:01:06] <greg__> I'm not sure
[15:02:50] <furrywolf> I'm really tempted by http://chico.craigslist.org/cto/5115003620.html
[15:03:04] <furrywolf> I don't like the blue interior, but that's a very straight body...
[15:03:54] <greg__> ah well back to cleaning the garage
[15:04:05] <furrywolf> I wish I had a garage to clean. :(
[15:08:55] <_methods> PetefromTn_: what's goin on?
[15:09:05] <PetefromTn_> only current mode was on the whole time.
[15:09:14] <PetefromTn_> OK I pulled the part out of the anodizing bath
[15:09:26] <PetefromTn_> it LOOKS wonderful and smooth velvety look
[15:09:33] <_methods> right on
[15:09:38] <PetefromTn_> I dried it with a light compressed air
[15:09:53] <PetefromTn_> and then let it hang dry for a little while with a fan blowing on it.
[15:10:08] <PetefromTn_> it looked overall sort of frosted all over
[15:10:15] <PetefromTn_> with a yellowy tinge
[15:10:18] <CaptHindsight> how it should look
[15:10:26] <PetefromTn_> after it dried fully
[15:10:28] <CaptHindsight> 6061
[15:10:35] <PetefromTn_> I immersed it in the dye tank
[15:10:42] <PetefromTn_> I made a couple videos
[15:11:01] <PetefromTn_> it is hanging drying right now with the dye on it with a light fan blowing on it.
[15:11:16] <CaptHindsight> how does it look?
[15:11:40] <PetefromTn_> well right now it is still drying after the dye dip
[15:11:56] <Tom_itx> are the cookies ready yet?
[15:11:58] <PetefromTn_> so it looks very matte with the same sort of wet lower edges
[15:12:08] <PetefromTn_> overall it looks a lot smoother
[15:12:16] <PetefromTn_> sealer bath is up to temp
[15:12:24] <CaptHindsight> you'll know when you seal it
[15:12:25] <PetefromTn_> waiting on the dunk after the part fully dries
[15:12:36] <PetefromTn_> stdy for videos
[15:13:18] <_methods> is it bad to dry the dye stage in a heated chamber?
[15:13:55] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ are these still test parts?
[15:13:59] <CaptHindsight> the solvents need to evaporate
[15:14:32] <PetefromTn_> Tom yeah it is actually the same exact part
[15:14:55] <CaptHindsight> the solvents are flammable, so with enough heat in a confined area it could be exciting
[15:15:32] <Tom_itx> it would dry quick though :D
[15:15:51] <_methods> ahhh
[15:15:53] <_methods> lol
[15:15:56] <_methods> flash dry
[15:15:57] <CaptHindsight> flash-flame drying
[15:16:04] <PetefromTn_> we would prefer to avoid such excitement around here
[15:16:12] <_methods> wimp
[15:16:18] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/QsGAAcf.jpg
[15:16:24] <_methods> where's your sense of ssi adventure
[15:16:33] <CaptHindsight> thats what the lab coat if for :)
[15:16:38] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/shd4Qfe.jpg
[15:16:41] <_methods> yeah that's beautiful
[15:17:05] <_methods> looks great just like that
[15:17:05] <PetefromTn_> thanks man
[15:17:15] <CaptHindsight> looks great
[15:17:28] <PetefromTn_> I was pretty pleased with the after anodizing look now if I can just get this dye on there we will be awesome!!
[15:17:36] <Roguish> methods: are you anodizing?
[15:17:37] <Tom_itx> i thought it was supposed to be blue?
[15:17:46] <CaptHindsight> too bad you don't have a camera with a wider view :)
[15:17:46] <PetefromTn_> black actually
[15:17:50] <_methods> not me
[15:18:09] <_methods> pete is anodizing
[15:18:17] <_methods> i'm getting to learn from his mistakes
[15:18:23] <_methods> nothing like a free education
[15:18:33] <Roguish> Ok, are you 'guys' conversion coating?
[15:18:39] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VwkrH-Jw9A&feature=youtu.be
[15:19:23] <CaptHindsight> you can see the patterns that the tools made clearly
[15:19:43] <PetefromTn_> bad tool marks huh
[15:21:35] <PetefromTn_> second video uploading
[15:21:38] <_methods> looks fine to me
[15:21:52] <PetefromTn_> I should probably mention that this setup is VERY preliminary
[15:22:10] <PetefromTn_> I intend to make a roll around stand to house all of this and make it easier to move around.
[15:22:23] <PetefromTn_> I am just trying to work thru the process so I can make successful parts here
[15:22:25] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/28IWrBIr6WxT
[15:22:50] <PetefromTn_> yeah they are not perfect LOL
[15:22:56] <_methods> what is it going on?
[15:23:04] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[15:23:13] <_methods> what is this part going on
[15:23:30] <PetefromTn_> it is for a remote resorvoir shock absorber
[15:23:35] <PetefromTn_> on a lifted truck
[15:23:36] <_methods> yeah looks good to me
[15:23:39] <_methods> lol
[15:23:43] <CaptHindsight> you can't always see it when the parts are shiny
[15:24:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah the main batch is actually not as pretty as this one is unfortunately as I sped up the toolpaths so the marks are slightly more pronounced. I intend to buff them on my deburring wheel and see what one looks like and then do them all.
[15:24:51] <Roguish> PetefromTn_: ever try a tumbler before anodizing. really helps with surface uniformity.
[15:24:57] <PetefromTn_> They do not need to be absolutely perfect but as long as they are nice and smooth
[15:25:11] <PetefromTn_> I don't have a tumbler yet but I want one.
[15:25:16] <_methods> normal people won't even notice
[15:25:19] <PetefromTn_> All of this stuff is so damn expensive
[15:25:26] <PetefromTn_> at least to me
[15:25:38] <PetefromTn_> I am struggling just to get done what I have accomplished so far.
[15:26:19] <_methods> if you're really worried about the surface finish just make the last profile .005" and throw in a ghost pass
[15:26:22] <Roguish> not to hard to gin up. the media is the pricy part. but lasts a very long time.
[15:26:38] <PetefromTn_> I did that actually
[15:27:02] <_methods> well you might need to drop in a smaller .02" pass before the .005" then
[15:27:22] <_methods> those chatter marks don't look too deep
[15:27:30] <Tom_itx> a tumbler will give it a dull finish though
[15:27:37] <_methods> were you climb milling?
[15:30:15] <CaptHindsight> http://opentrons.myshopify.com/products/ot-one-pro t-slot, rack and pinion, Cartesian robot with syringe pumps
[15:32:48] <CaptHindsight> they probably reinvented G-code as well
[15:34:23] <CaptHindsight> I think it's belt drive but the belt aren't rendered
[15:34:28] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReqhcsWJo9E&feature=youtu.be
[15:36:02] <CaptHindsight> to get a gloss finish you need to brite dip
[15:36:48] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/eJin4Pq.jpg Okay this picture shows the part AFTER it completely dried and BEFORE I sealed it
[15:36:50] <CaptHindsight> brite/bright depending on brand
[15:37:04] <PetefromTn_> you can see the copperish streaks on the edges
[15:37:13] <CaptHindsight> looks good
[15:37:32] <PetefromTn_> I just put it in the sealer
[15:37:41] <PetefromTn_> and some dye came off when I put it in.
[15:37:43] <furrywolf> copperish is where the dye pooled?
[15:37:52] <PetefromTn_> yes copperish is where the dye pooled
[15:38:00] <PetefromTn_> it did this yesterday too
[15:38:05] <CaptHindsight> it's an interference effect
[15:38:46] <XXCoder> weird pattern
[15:38:49] <CaptHindsight> dye molecules start agglomerating as the solvent evaporates
[15:38:56] <XXCoder> not really pattern but marks
[15:39:56] <CaptHindsight> spacing and size of the particles have an effect on the color you see on the surface above the pores
[15:40:33] <CaptHindsight> the dye in the pores look matte black
[15:42:36] <PetefromTn_> Okay this is a fail
[15:42:46] <PetefromTn_> part looks no better than it did yesterday
[15:43:06] <PetefromTn_> lots of void areas and not really black
[15:43:32] <PetefromTn_> there is a really bad part around the hole I was holding it with
[15:43:57] <greg__> what temperature is the dye?
[15:44:00] <PetefromTn_> I believe it happened when I used some light compressed air to blow the water out of that hole.
[15:44:44] <greg__> is your air lubericated?
[15:44:47] <PetefromTn_> when I did that it looked smooth and even all over the part but some liquid came out of the hole at that part was visibly different from the rest of the part. Not sure what it was
[15:44:54] <PetefromTn_> no
[15:44:54] <CaptHindsight> greg__: room temp, it's solvent dye not a water dye bath
[15:46:06] <furrywolf> etch, wash, cook again. :)
[15:46:14] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/Po5SVkz.jpg Here's the part after sealing
[15:46:37] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf Yeah I can certainly do that but it would sure be nice to figure out what is going on here first
[15:47:12] <XXCoder> does it use water, and would water quality affect it?
[15:47:13] <Tom_itx> you have 2 sets of notes now right?
[15:47:27] <furrywolf> XXCoder: he used commercially-purchased distilled water
[15:47:33] <XXCoder> ok
[15:47:53] <greg__> what is the surface area of that part?
[15:47:59] <PetefromTn_> .1755
[15:48:04] <PetefromTn_> sq ft
[15:48:10] <CaptHindsight> better than the first one
[15:48:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is SLIGHTLY better than the first one
[15:48:42] <PetefromTn_> I think it is some sort of contamination or something with the way I am dipping the dye
[15:48:55] <XXCoder> fingerprints?
[15:49:05] <XXCoder> slight amount of oil may affect
[15:49:07] <PetefromTn_> never physically touched the part
[15:49:24] <cpresser> rinse in acetone?
[15:49:29] <XXCoder> did you clean it?
[15:49:33] <CaptHindsight> wipe it down with a solvent
[15:49:41] <furrywolf> undercooked?
[15:49:47] <PetefromTn_> I did that with acetone after I took it out of the sealer
[15:49:51] <CaptHindsight> acetone, lacquer thinner etc and lets see
[15:50:24] <PetefromTn_> seemed like a good bit of dye came off the part onto the paper towels with the acetone
[15:50:31] <CaptHindsight> looks more like the oxide is thin
[15:50:44] <PetefromTn_> the oxide layer
[15:50:47] <CaptHindsight> yes, the high spots that dried
[15:50:51] <Tom_itx> crank up the amps
[15:51:16] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight did you see the pictures pre dye?
[15:51:33] <CaptHindsight> yes, looked even
[15:51:41] <PetefromTn_> I thought so
[15:51:50] <PetefromTn_> actually it looked VERY smooth and even
[15:52:02] <CaptHindsight> but the oxide can look even and matte but too thin to hold much color
[15:52:13] <PetefromTn_> it only had any visible unevenness after I blew the air into the tapped hole
[15:52:25] <PetefromTn_> and then only around the hole
[15:52:34] <XXCoder> if its too thin, can it be "recooked"?
[15:52:39] <PetefromTn_> what do you think I should do?
[15:52:44] <furrywolf> next time, cook it until the voltage rises
[15:52:52] <CaptHindsight> anodize longer
[15:53:19] <PetefromTn_> I suppose I could crank up the amps a little it is POSSIBLE the power supply is not reading correctly but I kind of doubt it
[15:53:26] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, longer but not hotter/
[15:53:27] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: at this point he has to strip and start over
[15:53:27] <Tom_itx> ?
[15:53:27] <greg__> so 1A and 120 minutes is calculated?
[15:53:50] <PetefromTn_> we did 1 amp at 120 minutes for two tries now
[15:53:54] <PetefromTn_> basically
[15:54:10] <greg__> supposedly it should give 5/10th thickness
[15:54:13] <PetefromTn_> this time someone suggested I start lower for 20 minutes and ramp up to 1 amp
[15:54:44] <greg__> plain old 6061?
[15:54:50] <PetefromTn_> so that is what I did. I also added an additional 10 minutes to account for the duration of time it was at a lower amperage
[15:54:56] <PetefromTn_> yes USA 6061
[15:55:24] <PetefromTn_> I wonder if the solvent dye process I am doing wrong..
[15:55:33] <PetefromTn_> you can see my method in the last video I posted
[15:55:47] <PetefromTn_> after that I just hung it to dry completely
[15:56:50] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight What are your recommendations? I will make another attempt here right now this time with another of the same sample part instead of using the same part again. It is identical tho.
[15:57:27] <CaptHindsight> I'd anodize longer to see the difference
[15:57:47] <PetefromTn_> Someone named Lee just subscribed to me on youtube I imagine it is someone here...
[15:57:57] <PetefromTn_> at the same settings?
[15:58:05] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: is that area by your middle finger actually dye free?
[15:58:11] <PetefromTn_> the voltage never seemed to increase
[15:59:02] <PetefromTn_> yes it sort of is dye free... like I said I think I sprayed something out of the tapped hole when I used the compressed air in an attempt to dry the part better
[15:59:42] <CaptHindsight> maybe there was some oil in the hole
[15:59:57] <Deejay> gn8
[16:00:00] <PetefromTn_> it is possible
[16:00:15] <PetefromTn_> altho I soaked the part in the degreaser and etched the part this time too
[16:00:31] <CaptHindsight> this is why using a nice flat part for first attempts is recommended
[16:00:57] <CaptHindsight> you can dial in your anodize first then deal with other issues
[16:01:07] <CaptHindsight> so I'm going to ignore that edge for now
[16:01:27] <CaptHindsight> focus on getting the outer faces consistent
[16:01:34] <PetefromTn_> even on the parts of the part that seemed to take the dye well the finish is not even
[16:02:32] <PetefromTn_> it is matte and has some glossy parts here and there.. none of which seem to have been at all different during the anodizing process or were visible after the anodizing bath
[16:02:39] <Tom_itx> run your leads thru an ammeter to verify the current. cheap chinese supplies could be off
[16:02:59] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately I do not own one
[16:03:02] <CaptHindsight> it being grey vs black means too thin
[16:03:18] <PetefromTn_> too thin anodize layer
[16:03:23] <CaptHindsight> yes
[16:03:35] <CaptHindsight> the more dye, the deeper the color
[16:03:37] <PetefromTn_> do you think I should increase the current this time
[16:04:01] <CaptHindsight> I'd try longer then more current
[16:04:15] <CaptHindsight> if longer doesn't do much
[16:04:34] <PetefromTn_> is it normal for the anodizing to take hours and hours like this? two hours is a long time for one part
[16:04:57] <CaptHindsight> if the peak voltage is limited then it can't burn them
[16:05:46] <CaptHindsight> and I agree with Tom_itx
[16:05:47] <PetefromTn_> I am unsure if I have limited the peak voltage because there is not anyway to tell other than the currently shown voltage
[16:06:08] <CaptHindsight> the current displayed might be suspect
[16:06:57] <CaptHindsight> bargain supplies are not always a bargain
[16:07:07] <CaptHindsight> but we are only guessing
[16:07:17] <CaptHindsight> you're on your way
[16:07:34] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: can you make hmm alum tablets samples and test anodize with em
[16:07:46] <PetefromTn_> these are my test pieces
[16:07:47] <XXCoder> trying stuff till know
[16:07:49] <XXCoder> oh
[16:08:21] <PetefromTn_> I'm on my way alright....to insanity!!
[16:08:37] <_methods> welcome to the exciting world of metal finishing
[16:08:52] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: the peak voltage is displayed when there's nothing connected to it.
[16:09:42] <furrywolf> when it's in constant voltage mode, the displayed voltage is the peak voltage.
[16:10:04] <furrywolf> looked to me like it was bubbling enough that the 1A is not grossly in error.
[16:14:48] <CaptHindsight> try several samples with different times
[16:15:22] <CaptHindsight> the longer the time the thicker the oxide
[16:15:50] <CaptHindsight> more current will speed up the building of oxide
[16:15:50] <furrywolf> I think he anodized his internet connection cable.
[16:16:37] <CaptHindsight> higher temp will slow it down since the acid will remove oxide faster when warmer
[16:18:46] <greg__> the current density seems low
[16:19:30] <CaptHindsight> that could explain why after 2 hours the oxide is so thin
[16:20:15] <CaptHindsight> test, make a change, test etc keep track of results, it will be revealed
[16:21:39] <CaptHindsight> the Bio club in Brooklyn is making a big deal out of a cartesian robot for lab applications
[16:22:00] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of the early days of makerbot
[16:22:34] <XXCoder> bio lab requires MASSIVE amount of reative actions
[16:22:44] <XXCoder> cutting that down means more research work
[16:23:02] <XXCoder> imange drop in each vial 20x20
[16:23:06] <XXCoder> and theres larger arrays
[16:23:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.opentrons.com/ it's just cnc controlled syringes on a stage
[16:23:58] <CaptHindsight> maybe they have easy to use for a biologist front end software to generate G-code
[16:24:20] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:24:39] <XXCoder> its often just arrays so can even be predefined functions all way in
[16:25:09] <CaptHindsight> maybe that is what is missing from Linuxcnc for it to get more traction in lab robot applications
[16:25:32] <CaptHindsight> the GUI needs to be easy for the operator to use
[16:25:35] <XXCoder> the old fadal I use at work has predefined functions
[16:25:44] <XXCoder> various shapes and stuff
[16:26:37] <CaptHindsight> pick-n-place, deposit this much fluid from syringe "A" to spots 1, 4, 56, 85, etc
[16:27:11] <PetefromTn_> nasty thunderstorms here
[16:27:16] <PetefromTn_> lost internet for a bit
[16:27:17] <PetefromTn_> sorry
[16:27:29] <CaptHindsight> easy peasy for most here to generate the G-code but completely foreign to a biologist
[16:28:46] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: try more current and with 2 parts, take one out 0.5 hrs before the other
[16:29:39] <CaptHindsight> I'd do 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3 hrs all starting at the same time to compare
[16:29:43] <furrywolf> try connecting a tall metal pole to the part being anodized, and see if ~1.21GW anodizes it faster.
[16:30:12] <CaptHindsight> but then it also has to be moving at 88 MPH
[16:30:26] <greg__> I like furry's idea
[16:30:50] <XXCoder> just be sure your path in future or past is clear too.
[16:30:59] <greg__> Ok so google says current density is commonly 12-15A/ft^2
[16:31:20] <greg__> that's 2.1A.
[16:31:48] <greg__> Ramping current whould not be 10 minutes, but 1-2 minutes
[16:31:52] <CaptHindsight> http://ndhsubmersiblescience.com/ano/720rule.html
[16:32:03] <furrywolf> what is the function of ramping up the current?
[16:34:28] <CaptHindsight> I'd say he could go 1.8-2A max if it stays cool
[16:34:32] <greg__> something about controlling the growth of the oxide
[16:35:55] <greg__> too slow and it anodizes slowly to fast and it burns< not sure what burning actually is/looks like
[16:36:05] <PetefromTn_> Funny you say that I just etched the anodizing off the bad part, cleaned up and wired up another clean part and degreased and etched them both.
[16:36:19] <PetefromTn_> then put them both in the anodizing bath at the same time.
[16:36:23] <PetefromTn_> starting it at 1 amp
[16:36:38] <furrywolf> with two parts you have to double your current.
[16:36:47] <furrywolf> since you have double the surface area
[16:36:47] <PetefromTn_> for 20 minutes and going up to 2 I guess after that
[16:36:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[16:37:06] <furrywolf> also, make sure you hang them such that neither one shields the other from a clear shot to the cathodes
[16:37:36] <PetefromTn_> yeah I did that too
[16:37:37] <XXCoder> interesting
[16:37:51] <PetefromTn_> according to the 720 calculator I need 2.1 amps
[16:37:57] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: watching your led sign video
[16:38:08] <XXCoder> was that project you asked about in here while ago?
[16:38:15] <XXCoder> looks great
[16:38:22] <PetefromTn_> so you are saying that if I hookup the pps and then disconnect the wires it will show what voltage max is?
[16:38:29] <PetefromTn_> thanks X
[16:38:56] <CaptHindsight> the warm acid removes oxide as it builds
[16:39:06] <furrywolf> any time the power supply is in constant voltage mode, the displayed voltage is the max voltage. disconnecting one of the wires will always put it in constant voltage mode, since there's no current being drawn.
[16:39:10] <CaptHindsight> thats why yo keep it from getting warm
[16:40:17] <furrywolf> sounds like you need a heat pump... pull heat from the anodizing tank and pump it into the sealing tank. :)
[16:40:24] <CaptHindsight> so you need enough current to build oxide faster than the acid can strip it away
[16:41:07] <XXCoder> wonder with enough cooling and current would one be able to turn alum into pure alum oxide lol
[16:41:21] <furrywolf> XXCoder: sure, if you grind it up first. :P
[16:41:29] <XXCoder> lol
[16:41:32] <greg__> Type 2 Anodize times are 20-45 minutes is seems.
[16:41:39] <furrywolf> the required voltage increases with the thickness of the oxide layer, becoming unmanageably high pretty quickly.
[16:41:41] <CaptHindsight> the oxide layer gets too thick to build beyond a certain point
[16:41:56] <greg__> hard anodize is done at ~30°F and very high currents
[16:42:09] <XXCoder> interesting
[16:42:21] <furrywolf> XXCoder: however, the best way to make aluminum oxide is to mix aluminum powder with iron oxide powder, and apply sufficient initiation energy.
[16:42:51] <furrywolf> (for definitions of best that include entertainment value)
[16:43:09] <XXCoder> isnt that what woul melt though engine block
[16:43:16] <furrywolf> yes
[16:43:22] <XXCoder> termite powder something
[16:43:31] <CaptHindsight> greg__: that makes the acid react as slowly as possible until the bath freezes
[16:43:42] <CaptHindsight> thermite
[16:43:53] <XXCoder> thanks
[16:43:55] <_methods> lol
[16:43:56] <greg__> makes sense
[16:44:05] <CaptHindsight> that is aluminum oxide nanoparticles
[16:44:23] <CaptHindsight> the smaller the particles the greater their surface area
[16:44:25] <greg__> I have a chiller I run on my spindle, I should play with anodize
[16:44:37] <CaptHindsight> surface area per mass of material
[16:45:26] <XXCoder> artifical sapphire is still too hard for homebrew lol
[16:45:36] <_methods> i love lamp
[16:46:05] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmA59hQnoOU THERMITE
[16:46:16] <_methods> no termite
[16:46:27] <PetefromTn_> Okay
[16:46:33] <PetefromTn_> I just put the two parts in the bath
[16:46:54] <PetefromTn_> I put the voltage knobs somewhere in the middle and turned the current knobs to zero
[16:47:17] <PetefromTn_> when I turn it on I adjust it to 1 amp at first for like twenty minutes or so
[16:47:30] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: interesting videp
[16:47:42] <PetefromTn_> but I just tried to increase the amperage to 2.1 and it will not go above 1.6 amps
[16:47:48] <_methods> your manual says to use constant current for that power supply the voltage knobs need to be turned to 0
[16:47:52] <PetefromTn_> I adjusted the voltage knob a bit higher
[16:48:13] <PetefromTn_> really?
[16:48:15] <CaptHindsight> that one goes into other topics but you can see how well it heats up things
[16:48:16] <_methods> yeah
[16:48:28] <PetefromTn_> so the voltage knobs should be zero?
[16:48:28] <furrywolf> _methods: the manual and/or your reading of it is wrong
[16:48:29] <_methods> did you read the manual?
[16:48:37] <PetefromTn_> I tried to
[16:48:40] <_methods> lol
[16:49:07] <CaptHindsight> Welcomely to your new power suply
[16:49:33] <CaptHindsight> Please do read before attempting new power
[16:49:39] <_methods> yeah
[16:49:45] <PetefromTn_> it actually says at first fine and coarse adjustment knob voltage to 2-5v arbitrary values(current coarse and find adj knob is not 0)
[16:49:55] <_methods> yeah
[16:50:05] <_methods> kk
[16:50:06] <PetefromTn_> then adjust coarse and fine knob to 0
[16:50:11] <CaptHindsight> not for use under water or near sheep!
[16:50:15] <PetefromTn_> hookup wires
[16:50:26] <_methods> are you reading constant voltage section?
[16:50:26] <greg__> Current will only go as high as the votage setting will let it.
[16:50:32] <_methods> or the constant current section?
[16:50:49] <PetefromTn_> then clockwise current reg knob to the desired limit current value
[16:50:59] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/QRDRWoCyuQU
[16:51:04] <greg__> If you set 1V and have 10 ohms you'll only get .1A now matter how high you set current
[16:51:05] <PetefromTn_> I am reading the current settings number 3
[16:51:05] <XXCoder> so much abuse
[16:51:07] <_methods> kk
[16:51:08] <_methods> yeah
[16:51:08] <furrywolf> applying electricity to sheep is actually a routine practice...
[16:51:09] <_methods> sorry
[16:51:29] <PetefromTn_> is that wrong?
[16:51:55] <_methods> no that's right you just said it says to set voltage to 0
[16:52:04] <PetefromTn_> may loose internet again here thundering like a bitch
[16:52:06] <_methods> then set your current to desired value
[16:52:16] <PetefromTn_> okay lemme try that
[16:52:21] <XXCoder> lightining power anodize? heh
[16:53:42] <furrywolf> (well, rams, at least)
[16:55:55] <PetefromTn_> this power supply is really frustrating
[16:56:12] <furrywolf> why so?
[16:56:15] <greg__> This is how I do it.
[16:56:17] <furrywolf> it sounds like it works perfectly...
[16:56:23] <greg__> discconect load
[16:56:39] <greg__> set voltage to what you want
[16:56:49] <furrywolf> yes, that's what I told him to do. :)
[16:57:09] <greg__> turn current all the way down, connect load
[16:57:21] <greg__> when ready crank up the current to what you need to anodize
[16:57:23] <PetefromTn_> hang on everybody I am trying to post a picture of the manual here
[16:57:29] <_methods> yeah
[16:57:35] <_methods> post that
[16:57:39] <greg__> I've used one of those a long time ago
[16:57:42] <greg__> they all work the smae
[16:58:06] <furrywolf> ... ignore the manual. do what greg and I have told you to do. lol
[16:58:14] <greg__> some have more features, but basic function is the smae and I've used that particular type before
[17:02:54] <greg__> you don't have to be within .01A or V for anodizing 0.1 is more than close enough, forget the fine knobs and turn them all the way down.
[17:03:16] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/uUnTlwm.jpg
[17:04:07] <greg__> I've used one just like that. never looked at the manul
[17:04:21] <PetefromTn_> well that is what the manual says
[17:04:33] <PetefromTn_> I NORMALLY don't look at manuals much either ;)
[17:04:41] <PetefromTn_> but this time I am having issues
[17:04:48] <PetefromTn_> so I want to get this shit right
[17:04:59] <PetefromTn_> so I can make beautimus parts
[17:05:35] <greg__> OK, what they are saying is that if you want to set the current limit, you need some votlage and shorted leads
[17:05:38] <furrywolf> read step E
[17:05:46] <PetefromTn_> it sounds like if you do as you say and "set voltage to what you want" it puts it in voltage reg mode
[17:05:58] <furrywolf> step E says to disconnect the load and adjust the voltage to what you want the voltage max to be. :P
[17:05:59] <greg__> disregard, as you will be setting current after
[17:06:09] <furrywolf> it's just poorly written.
[17:06:16] <PetefromTn_> so I am supposed to short the thing?
[17:06:21] <greg__> no
[17:06:23] <PetefromTn_> it sure as hell is confusing to read to me
[17:06:44] <greg__> In some cases you want to set current before connecting to load
[17:06:48] <greg__> you are not doing this
[17:06:51] <PetefromTn_> I should probably post the first page but it does not seem to be able constant current mode
[17:06:52] <furrywolf> yes, it's written very poorly. but it operates the exact same way as other adjustable supplies.
[17:07:01] <_methods> so it sounds to me like they are telling you to hook it up the same way you've been doing it
[17:07:01] <greg__> you are setting voltage limit
[17:07:07] <_methods> and that is not working right
[17:07:09] <greg__> then adjusting current in the bath
[17:07:09] <PetefromTn_> hang on let me post the other page here
[17:07:26] <furrywolf> _methods: his power supply is working perfectly
[17:07:32] <greg__> yes
[17:07:35] <_methods> no kidding moron
[17:07:50] <_methods> its doing exactly what hes telling it to do
[17:08:02] <furrywolf> yes. and you're telling him to do it wrong. lol
[17:09:19] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/Zxe7jma.jpg okay first page
[17:09:25] <furrywolf> he has been operating it correctly. the power supply is NOT the issue with his anodizing results.
[17:09:37] <PetefromTn_> and if anyone here is a moron I should think it is me who is running the machine LOL
[17:10:09] <greg__> you can't blow those up, so play with it. I assume you have two leads hangin off. with an open circuit do as above and set ~5V. now turn current down. short the leads. and crank current up.
[17:10:16] <PetefromTn_> it is an issue right now tho because I cant seem to get it above 1.6 amps and it is supposed to be a 10 amp supply
[17:10:38] <greg__> that measn the light for voltage is lit
[17:10:53] <PetefromTn_> yes
[17:11:00] <PetefromTn_> hang on now
[17:11:05] <greg__> this means the circuit has enoguh resitance that you need more voltage to increase current
[17:11:08] <_methods> hey say something stupid furrydouche
[17:11:19] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[17:11:34] <greg__> play nice
[17:11:35] <_methods> just testing my /ignore lol
[17:11:41] <_methods> all is good now
[17:11:54] <PetefromTn_> ROFL
[17:12:05] <furrywolf> greg__: yeah, I'm not sure what his problem is. lol
[17:12:06] <PetefromTn_> so disconnect the leads
[17:12:13] <greg__> no
[17:12:22] <greg__> you can just turn up the voltage
[17:12:32] <PetefromTn_> lets start from scratch here..
[17:12:36] <greg__> you can't blow those up, so play with it. I assume you have two leads hangin off. with an open circuit do as above and set ~5V. now turn current down. short the leads. and crank current up.
[17:12:39] <PetefromTn_> machine is powered down
[17:12:45] <furrywolf> your cathodes are small and a long way from your parts, so you'll probably end up with higher voltage than average.
[17:12:57] <PetefromTn_> this is a 30 volt supply
[17:13:13] <PetefromTn_> where do I put my knobs for current and voltage?
[17:13:16] <furrywolf> the calculator you're using points out that your voltage may be several volts higher or lower than its estimate.... I think you'll be on the higher end with this setup.
[17:13:18] <PetefromTn_> before I turn it on
[17:13:32] <PetefromTn_> start from scratch
[17:13:36] <greg__> doesn't really matter, but start low
[17:13:44] <PetefromTn_> on which knobs
[17:13:50] <greg__> all
[17:13:50] <furrywolf> disconnect your load. turn it on. set the voltage to what you want your maximum voltage to be. connect your load. set your current to where you want your current to be.
[17:14:00] <greg__> wait
[17:14:07] <greg__> i wnat him to learn how it works
[17:14:14] <PetefromTn_> me too ;)
[17:14:27] <greg__> tun on and with open cicuit set 5V
[17:14:28] <PetefromTn_> remember I am a dumbshit with trons
[17:14:38] <greg__> fingers not working
[17:14:44] * furrywolf scrolls up, and doesn't see why _methods is being pissy
[17:15:35] <PetefromTn_> okay lemme do that.
[17:15:38] <PetefromTn_> open circuit
[17:15:46] <PetefromTn_> current fine and coarse at zero
[17:15:54] <PetefromTn_> turn up voltage to 5v
[17:15:57] <PetefromTn_> then what
[17:16:01] <greg__> short the leads
[17:16:14] <furrywolf> if you set the current to zero, you may not be able to adjust the voltage. some supplies require them to be not-quite-zero.
[17:16:17] <PetefromTn_> together or to the cathodes/part
[17:16:45] <greg__> together
[17:16:49] <PetefromTn_> ok
[17:17:08] <greg__> what does votlage read?
[17:17:34] <furrywolf> it depends on how precise the power supply is. if zero-means-ZERO, it won't put out enough current to overcome the bleeder resistors on the output caps.
[17:17:44] <greg__> right we'll see
[17:18:08] <greg__> sometimes I forget that the current was high and shit gets hot fast
[17:18:24] <PetefromTn_> okay it wont let me adjust to the 5v without the leads hooked up
[17:18:49] <PetefromTn_> it stays in CC mode and the voltage knobs dont allow it to go any higher than .5 or so
[17:18:53] <greg__> OK, this is because you current is set to zero. turn it up just a touch and votlage will come up
[17:19:08] <furrywolf> the voltage won't come up if it's shorted. :)
[17:19:21] <greg__> he said without
[17:19:31] <PetefromTn_> okay now it works and I adjusted to 5v
[17:19:36] <PetefromTn_> current is like .1
[17:19:42] <PetefromTn_> it is in CV mode
[17:19:45] <greg__> open circuit?
[17:19:48] <PetefromTn_> yes
[17:19:50] <greg__> OK
[17:20:08] <greg__> small inaccuracy
[17:20:09] <PetefromTn_> now short the leads together
[17:20:11] <greg__> now short
[17:20:18] <PetefromTn_> you are sure
[17:20:25] <greg__> yes it's made to do this
[17:20:57] <PetefromTn_> okay voltage and current went to zero
[17:21:17] <greg__> Now start turning current up and watch the votlage
[17:21:28] <PetefromTn_> its in CC mode
[17:21:36] <greg__> no matter
[17:22:15] <PetefromTn_> current at max current reads ZERO voltage reads 1.1
[17:22:22] <greg__> OK.
[17:22:37] <greg__> You can stop
[17:22:43] <PetefromTn_> stop what
[17:22:48] <greg__> short
[17:23:02] <PetefromTn_> ok
[17:23:06] <PetefromTn_> now what
[17:23:22] <furrywolf> current at max current reads zero?
[17:24:16] <PetefromTn_> opened the circuit current now reads .2 voltage is at 5.0 CV mode
[17:25:03] <PetefromTn_> what now>
[17:25:04] <greg__> so resistance in this case is low so it can't reach max votlage with the short. this is current mode
[17:25:19] <greg__> The current is being controlled.
[17:25:41] <greg__> resistance of the circuit will determine the votlage that gives that current
[17:25:52] <PetefromTn_> yes
[17:26:01] <PetefromTn_> should I turn the current back down
[17:26:05] <greg__> yes
[17:26:12] <PetefromTn_> it is in CV mode right now too
[17:26:38] <greg__> with no load it should be in voltage mode
[17:26:49] <PetefromTn_> turned current back to zero and it switched to CC mode
[17:26:50] <greg__> as there is no current
[17:27:20] <greg__> the design of the supply will determien what happens at very low settings
[17:27:23] <PetefromTn_> current meter shows zero volt meter shows .1
[17:27:31] <greg__> shitty calibration
[17:27:49] <os1r1s> Quick question. Can I reference the machine coordinates, world offset, and tool offset from gladevcp?
[17:28:31] <os1r1s> Quick question. Can I reference the machine coordinates, world offset, and tool offset from gladevcp?
[17:28:32] <PetefromTn_> okay so it seems to work correctly right?
[17:28:39] <greg__> yes
[17:28:53] <PetefromTn_> so now how do I adjust it and hook it up to the parts?
[17:30:42] <greg__> current down, open circuit, set your max votlage, connect your parts, ramp current to where you want it in 30 seconds max. If it switches to voltage mode you need to increase voltage to switch back to current mode.
[17:31:58] <greg__> current high enough so it lets you set the voltage, like before
[17:32:22] <PetefromTn_> but with open circuit voltage stays very low I cannot adjust it to the 15 max or so I need
[17:32:54] <greg__> just bump the current up a until it lets you.
[17:33:01] <PetefromTn_> OK
[17:37:56] <PetefromTn_> OK just tweaked it to 1.6 amps and it does not seem to want to go any higher
[17:38:11] <PetefromTn_> no matter how much I adjust the voltage coarse knob higher
[17:38:19] <greg__> what is voltage?
[17:38:24] <PetefromTn_> parts are cooking and a LOT of bubbles are coming off the cathodes
[17:38:26] <PetefromTn_> 16.6
[17:39:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah when I try to tweak the current higher it stops at 1.6 amps
[17:39:54] <greg__> but still in current mode?
[17:40:14] <PetefromTn_> when I try to tweak the voltage it is about maxed out at 16.6 still in current mode
[17:40:50] <greg__> hmm.
[17:41:15] <greg__> if you turn votlage all teh way up, and then try to increase current it won't go any higher?
[17:41:29] <PetefromTn_> no
[17:41:41] <greg__> what is the power rating of the supply?
[17:42:00] <PetefromTn_> supposed to be 10 amps 30v
[17:42:07] <greg__> watts
[17:43:06] <PetefromTn_> no sure
[17:43:33] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271652928843?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[17:44:11] <PetefromTn_> not sure
[17:44:33] <greg__> i looked it doesn't say, you're only getting 27W. doesn't seem right. Did it read 10A when you shorted it?
[17:46:14] <PetefromTn_> not sure I don't remember honestly I don't think I ever saw more than 1 on the current display
[17:46:49] <PetefromTn_> just checked the parts
[17:46:56] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's Chinese amps?
[17:47:10] <PetefromTn_> LOTS of bubbling and tiny bubbles coming off the parts much more than before
[17:47:27] <PetefromTn_> touched the wire holding the parts they are pretty warm/hot
[17:48:55] <greg__> somethign doesn't seem right
[17:49:44] <greg__> shorted it should have read near 10A with current dialed all the way up
[17:49:50] <PetefromTn_> I don't know
[17:50:05] <PetefromTn_> won't that hurt the machine?
[17:50:12] <greg__> no
[17:50:39] <PetefromTn_> should I check it again?
[17:51:02] <greg__> no, the thing to do now is verify the current and voltage
[17:51:20] <PetefromTn_> I can check the voltage with a VM but I have no ammeter here
[17:51:33] <greg__> we can make one
[17:51:50] <greg__> is you meter digital?
[17:51:56] <PetefromTn_> last time I checked it the display was showing a little more than actual but of course my meter is not exactly top of the line
[17:52:00] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[17:52:12] <greg__> has millivolt scale?
[17:53:03] <PetefromTn_> DC volt side has 200m minimum setting
[17:53:59] <PetefromTn_> I think I have an analog meter somewhere but its not a real good one
[17:54:27] <PetefromTn_> the leads are pretty warm on the unit
[17:54:38] <greg__> probably not accurate enough, unless you happen to have a big .1-1 ohm resistor
[17:54:47] <greg__> what size is your wire?
[17:54:56] <PetefromTn_> it is what it came with no idea
[17:55:09] <PetefromTn_> the wires I put on to my cathode and anode are quite large
[17:55:22] <PetefromTn_> but I am using the little gator clips on the PPS to hook up to it
[17:55:37] <greg__> nothing should get warm at 1.6A, i'd guess the meter isn't redaing correctly
[17:55:53] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/KyRc698.jpg
[17:56:07] <PetefromTn_> that is the setup
[17:56:39] <PetefromTn_> hang on a sec
[17:57:51] <_methods> your constant voltage light is lit in that pic
[17:58:02] <_methods> is that right now?
[17:58:15] <_methods> or was that a pic from before
[17:59:04] <greg__> someone will have to take over i have to run
[17:59:47] <PetefromTn_> no that is an old pic
[17:59:51] <_methods> k
[17:59:51] <PetefromTn_> Okay
[17:59:59] <PetefromTn_> I just went out there and took a voltage measurement
[18:00:13] <_methods> well that would would definitely explain your previous issue
[18:00:19] <_methods> it was in c/v mode
[18:00:20] <PetefromTn_> the machine is reading 16.6 and I got 14.8 on my meter
[18:00:34] <_methods> the c/c light is lit?
[18:00:47] <PetefromTn_> I turned down the current to 1.0 amps and the voltage read 10.8 volts
[18:00:52] <PetefromTn_> CC is lit all this time
[18:00:56] <_methods> good
[18:01:00] <_methods> you should be good to go now
[18:01:05] <PetefromTn_> machine and wires are HOT!!
[18:01:06] <_methods> your amps are low for 2 parts
[18:01:22] <_methods> yeah it happens
[18:01:26] <PetefromTn_> I could not adjust it to above 1.6 amps no matter what I did
[18:01:27] <_methods> use larger wires
[18:01:39] <PetefromTn_> you think it is the wires?
[18:01:41] <_methods> nah
[18:01:46] <_methods> i think it's the power supply lol
[18:01:51] <PetefromTn_> before someone said that they should be good for up to 10 amos
[18:01:52] <_methods> the wires will get hot
[18:01:59] <PetefromTn_> amps
[18:02:17] <PetefromTn_> great so the power supply is not good then?
[18:02:17] <_methods> i have no idea if it is or not
[18:02:35] <_methods> no those power supplies are notorious POS
[18:02:42] <_methods> just check eevblog lol
[18:02:46] <_methods> plenty of horror stories
[18:02:56] <PetefromTn_> wonderful
[18:02:57] <_methods> but for what you're doing it should be fine
[18:03:13] <PetefromTn_> I may be totally screwed here then
[18:03:13] <_methods> i wouldn't use it on any sensitive electronics though lol
[18:03:17] <_methods> nah
[18:03:22] <_methods> it should be fine
[18:03:24] <_methods> for now
[18:03:29] <PetefromTn_> yeah because I have to get these parts freaking anodized and soon
[18:03:39] <_methods> if you want to do more parts though you might need to make a better supply
[18:03:41] <_methods> or buy one
[18:03:42] <PetefromTn_> or I will lose this sale
[18:03:59] <_methods> just try this one out
[18:04:01] <_methods> see how it goes
[18:04:04] <PetefromTn_> and everything I paid for the anodizing and everything will be coming out of my pocket LOL
[18:04:05] <_methods> and record everything
[18:04:27] <PetefromTn_> back of unit is very hot....that is why I turned it down to 1 amp
[18:04:34] <_methods> i think you'll get better results this time
[18:04:42] <PetefromTn_> even tho I need to be higher than that for two parts
[18:04:56] <PetefromTn_> I think I am screwed
[18:04:58] <_methods> i used a battery charger when i did my etching
[18:05:43] <_methods> you'll be fine for now especially to prove out your process
[18:05:53] <_methods> it will be easy to scale up once you prove it out
[18:06:57] <PetefromTn_> have not proven anything here at all.. might not be able to
[18:07:12] <_methods> run this one for your 2 hours and see how it looks
[18:07:17] <PetefromTn_> if I cannot get the anodizing layer to build up this is all just an expensive experiment
[18:07:39] <PetefromTn_> I would turn up the current but I am afraid it would fry the supply
[18:07:44] <PetefromTn_> before the time ran out
[18:07:47] <_methods> yeah keep it low for this one
[18:07:51] <_methods> see how it works
[18:08:25] <_methods> still getting more bubbling than your last attempts?
[18:08:47] <_methods> do yo have to worry about overheating the tank on this one?
[18:11:48] <CaptHindsight> 30W in 10 gal of water isn't much
[18:13:13] <PetefromTn_> I am not sure what to do now
[18:13:18] <CaptHindsight> 30W = ~100 BTU/hr
[18:13:19] <PetefromTn_> it is cooking
[18:13:31] <PetefromTn_> and the wires to the parts are pretty hot to the touch
[18:13:42] <PetefromTn_> bubbles are pouring off the cathodes
[18:13:55] <PetefromTn_> the parts are bubbling a lot more than last times
[18:13:56] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how many gallons of water/acid in the tank?
[18:14:12] <PetefromTn_> three gallons of water/three gallons of acid
[18:14:13] <_methods> wellnow you actually have the correct amps going in
[18:14:18] <_methods> so you're going to see more action
[18:14:33] <PetefromTn_> well actually the amps should be 2.1
[18:14:41] <PetefromTn_> but I can't seem to get it that high
[18:14:54] <_methods> well what i'm saying is you have way more amps going in than you did
[18:14:57] <PetefromTn_> right now it is at 1.5-1.6 and the volts are like 15.5
[18:15:29] <PetefromTn_> I put my meter across the circuit and got 14.8 volts
[18:15:39] <_methods> before i think you were in c/v mode
[18:15:47] <_methods> so it was just regulating your voltage
[18:15:47] <PetefromTn_> no that was just the first time
[18:16:03] <_methods> ah
[18:16:04] <PetefromTn_> that picture was the first one I took when I first started
[18:16:21] <PetefromTn_> since I posted it that people told me it was wrong and I fixed that
[18:16:33] <PetefromTn_> so the last two times I tried this it was in CC mode the entire time
[18:16:44] <CaptHindsight> 5 gal of water is ~42lbs, so your 100 BTU/hr heater will raise the water temp only a couple of degrees F
[18:17:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't think water temp is an issue here too much
[18:17:42] <PetefromTn_> I guess all I can do right now is keep cooking it for maybe 2.5 hours or so and see what happens
[18:17:44] <CaptHindsight> just covering the topic in case anyone is paying attention :)
[18:17:53] <_methods> yep
[18:17:58] <PetefromTn_> Oh I am paying attention
[18:18:00] <_methods> roll with it dawg
[18:18:12] <PetefromTn_> about to pull my hair out
[18:18:21] <PetefromTn_> luckily it is shaved short
[18:18:27] <PetefromTn_> harder to grab onto
[18:18:43] <_methods> if you're not makin mistakes, you're not doing anything
[18:18:47] <PetefromTn_> If this power supply does not work or fails I am out
[18:19:05] <PetefromTn_> don't have any backup cash right now to do anything else about it.
[18:19:10] <PetefromTn_> spent it all on this stuff
[18:19:28] <PetefromTn_> the definition of SCREWED!!
[18:19:56] <PetefromTn_> what I don't understand is that the part last time looked SO GOOD.
[18:20:10] <PetefromTn_> it had a very nice matte shine to it and LOOKED like an anodized part
[18:20:11] <CaptHindsight> yes, but the oxide was too thin
[18:20:14] <_methods> it probably built a small thin layer
[18:20:21] <_methods> even but thin
[18:20:34] <PetefromTn_> so without more power I cannot create a larger layer then
[18:20:50] <_methods> you should have plenty for t-1/2
[18:20:52] <CaptHindsight> if you were using aluminum sheet you could bend it and see it crack
[18:20:54] <PetefromTn_> you guys saw the pics/video right
[18:20:55] <_methods> not t3 though
[18:21:12] <_methods> you need a serious set up for hard anodize
[18:21:29] <PetefromTn_> it sure looked okay but maybe it was thin as you suggest
[18:21:47] <PetefromTn_> I thought I was serious...;)
[18:21:52] <_methods> hahah
[18:22:01] <_methods> 48' tanks is serious
[18:22:15] <_methods> you're at i'm going to the beach stage right now lol
[18:22:18] <PetefromTn_> I don't need that because I don't make thousands of parts
[18:22:56] <PetefromTn_> but I do need adequate power
[18:22:57] <_methods> you got me wanting to do an anodize set up now
[18:23:12] <_methods> yeah i got a ton of old server power supplies i'll just use
[18:23:15] <PetefromTn_> what kills me is there are tons of videos online with half assed setups
[18:23:25] <PetefromTn_> and not the proper chemicals like I tried to buy
[18:23:31] <PetefromTn_> and they seem to make the damn shit work
[18:23:37] <_methods> you'll get it
[18:23:53] <PetefromTn_> saw one video a guy just used a damn car battery
[18:24:36] <PetefromTn_> I guess I am just frustrated here
[18:24:53] <PetefromTn_> really thought this would work okay for what I need to do.
[18:25:16] <PetefromTn_> I sure appreciate all your help guys
[18:29:30] <_methods> make sure you get some good pics of the anodize when you pull these out
[18:31:30] <PetefromTn_> OK
[18:38:44] <PetefromTn_> Ok just made another video so you can see the action in the tank.
[18:38:48] <PetefromTn_> it is uploading
[18:41:55] <_methods> cool
[18:43:35] <XXCoder> I HATE factory errors
[18:43:40] <XXCoder> what a waste of time
[18:43:56] <XXCoder> 4 TB portable has deformed usb plug so plug dont fit in
[18:46:16] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: well your power supply was not doing what it was supposed to
[18:52:43] <PetefromTn_> just was eating dinner and went back out to check on it. PPS says 3.3 amps and 30.3 V
[18:52:53] <PetefromTn_> looked inside...bubbles are stopped completely
[18:52:58] <PetefromTn_> I think it died
[18:54:00] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0WNZagBoY&feature=youtu.be This is what it looked like before
[18:54:18] <PetefromTn_> before it died
[18:54:43] <PetefromTn_> I unplugged it and I am HOPING it has a thermal overload and it will cool down and work again but I kinda doubt it.
[18:55:43] <XXCoder> sucks
[18:55:53] <PetefromTn_> INDEED
[18:56:18] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: there is a project somewhere to convert a computer powerbox to power supply
[18:56:28] <PetefromTn_> I am curious as to whether those here who have actually anodized a part think that action I was getting was just 1.5 amps
[18:57:13] <PetefromTn_> I kinda think it was a lot more than that just based on the heat coming from the wires and titanium parts holding wires...
[18:57:22] <PetefromTn_> and perhaps the readouts were wrong?
[18:57:31] <XXCoder> you really need a multimeter
[18:57:32] <PetefromTn_> but I have no way to verify that
[18:57:36] <PetefromTn_> I have several
[18:57:37] <XXCoder> find what the heck is it doing
[18:57:53] <PetefromTn_> I just don't have an ammeter
[18:58:09] <PetefromTn_> never really needed one before
[18:58:18] <_methods> yeah that bubbling looks good
[18:58:21] <XXCoder> I remember one time fur found out troque was WAYY off and it turned out prints needed to be aligned again
[18:58:36] <_methods> that's what 1-2 amps looks like
[18:58:37] <XXCoder> so 100 ft/lb is around 100 ft/lb again
[18:58:38] <PetefromTn_> right now I am just hoping that the power supply has a thermal overload
[18:58:41] <_methods> you should see 20amps
[18:58:56] <_methods> looks like a toxic jacuzzi lol
[18:58:58] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[18:59:04] <XXCoder> _methods: I bet THAT requires big cooling system
[18:59:09] <CaptHindsight> that power supply was rated with Chinese Amps
[18:59:35] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight How many amps does the action in that video look like to you?
[18:59:49] <CaptHindsight> enough
[19:00:08] <CaptHindsight> bubbling goodness
[19:00:16] <PetefromTn_> was it enough?
[19:00:45] <PetefromTn_> that video was at 1.5 amps on the display but the wires were getting very hot as was the power supply
[19:01:30] <PetefromTn_> what are the odds that the power supply will work again, probably nil huh?
[19:01:51] <XXCoder> if its dead check fuses and such if there is any
[19:02:18] <CaptHindsight> theoretically a 10A supply, but I wonder what the derating is 10A at 1V, 10V at 1 A
[19:02:20] <PetefromTn_> if there are any they are internal
[19:02:40] <CaptHindsight> 30W might be too much for its heatsink
[19:03:15] <CaptHindsight> time to get the car battery
[19:03:29] <PetefromTn_> will that even work?
[19:04:20] <_methods> car battery chargers are cheap
[19:04:33] <_methods> mine has 1A, 2A and 20A setting
[19:04:45] <_methods> it will be C/V instead of C/C
[19:04:50] <PetefromTn_> I have a small battery charger here
[19:04:53] <_methods> but it could get you going for cheap
[19:05:04] <_methods> if your bench supply is smoked
[19:05:16] <PetefromTn_> I don't know if it is or not
[19:05:33] <CaptHindsight> it might come back on when it cools off
[19:05:41] <PetefromTn_> all I know is this sucks ass... I know I should have bought the larger supply but it was chinese too
[19:06:09] <PetefromTn_> and reading online most of the time you are not over a couple amps anyways so I figured it would work fine
[19:08:09] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: theres always computer pc powerbox to bench power conversion
[19:08:37] <XXCoder> probably this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8rQ3mG-36g
[19:11:05] <XXCoder> http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-A-Computer-Power-supply-to-a-Bench-Top-Lab/?ALLSTEPS
[19:18:13] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: return the supply Monday
[19:18:31] <PetefromTn_> its from ebay
[19:18:45] <CaptHindsight> inform the seller
[19:18:49] <PetefromTn_> I will
[19:18:54] <CaptHindsight> ask for a refund/return
[19:19:03] <CaptHindsight> the usual, it's crap
[19:19:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[19:19:11] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAMBDA-EMI-TCR-20S30-00470053-REV-G-MD-TCR-20S30-1-D-20V-30A-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-/151108921126 I have one very similar to that, and love it.
[19:19:19] <_methods> just tell them it would never go above 3 amps
[19:19:45] <CaptHindsight> automation technology is down the road from me, it's the only reason why I gamble on his equipment
[19:19:47] <PetefromTn_> I'm just gonna hope that it resets here in a little bit
[19:20:00] <furrywolf> 0-20V, 0-30A, and they mean it, 24 hours a day.
[19:20:22] <XXCoder> 237 bucks isnt bad
[19:21:12] <XXCoder> intresting https://metaltronics.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/homemade-anodizing/
[19:21:25] <furrywolf> I have their newer EMS instead of EMI one, but the big difference is mine is 1U instead of 2U, I think.
[19:23:48] <furrywolf> hrmm, I don't like how neither the voltage nor current LED is on in their pictures, but maybe that's just how it behaves with both knobs are at zero...
[19:24:08] <furrywolf> it has a 14 day warranty at least.
[19:24:40] <_methods> did you try dying the parts that were in there?
[19:25:04] <PetefromTn_> they were only in there maybe 20 minutes
[19:25:36] <_methods> damn
[19:26:14] <_methods> i'm not sure how easy it would be to slap together a current limiting power supply
[19:26:40] <XXCoder> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/2693-Anodizing-power-supply-suggestions
[19:26:50] <XXCoder> one of em suggests car battery recharger
[19:27:07] <furrywolf> _methods: they're not complicated, if you have experience with analog electronics.
[19:28:19] <XXCoder> furrywolf: is it possible to convert a computer powerbox into what he needs? current limiting power supply
[19:29:00] <furrywolf> XXCoder: no
[19:29:07] <XXCoder> guessed not
[19:29:09] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lambda-LK-343A-FM-Regulated-DC-Power-Supply-Module-Variable-Benchtop-Lab-0-36VDC-/301684515942 is older, but high quality.
[19:29:19] <XXCoder> too bad, can go to computer junk store and buy one cheap
[19:30:50] <furrywolf> computer supplies are switchers, and generally not suitable to current limiting... and even if they were, switchers are much harder to modify.
[19:30:55] <furrywolf> also, they're mostly all crap.
[19:31:11] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lambda-LK-343A-FM-Regulated-DC-Power-Supply-Module-Variable-Benchtop-Lab-0-36VDC-/261958674639 same model as above, but tested working
[19:31:30] <PetefromTn_> Okay just powered down and unplugged it for awhile
[19:31:44] <PetefromTn_> then I just turned it back on and it seems to be working again.
[19:31:54] <PetefromTn_> I tried to hook it back up
[19:32:00] <PetefromTn_> bubbles are coming out again nicely
[19:32:12] <PetefromTn_> I turned the current down to 1.3 instead of the 1.6
[19:32:13] <_methods> put a fan on it
[19:32:20] <furrywolf> voltage meter reading correctly?
[19:32:20] <Tom_itx> thermal shutdown?
[19:32:21] <PetefromTn_> I already had a fan on it
[19:32:23] <_methods> try to keep it cool probably has a thermal
[19:32:27] <Tom_itx> get a friggin ammeter
[19:32:35] <PetefromTn_> no cash man
[19:32:42] <Tom_itx> $5
[19:32:43] <Tom_itx> ebay
[19:32:56] <XXCoder> how to build current limiting power supply http://www.microsyl.com/index.php/2010/03/31/bench-power-supply-0-25v-0-5amp/
[19:32:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah I will order one I guess but that does not help me right now
[19:33:03] <XXCoder> looks like it cost more than buy off ebay
[19:33:05] <furrywolf> harbor freight, $0. :)
[19:33:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/12v_supply2.jpg
[19:33:23] <Tom_itx> wonder if that would work for a supply
[19:33:24] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/12v_supply3.jpg
[19:33:49] <furrywolf> XXCoder: I don't think pete is in the mood to learn analog electronics for his anodizing tank. :)
[19:33:55] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:33:58] <Tom_itx> not constant current i don't think
[19:35:15] <PetefromTn_> Okay just went back out and checked it
[19:35:33] <PetefromTn_> it increased amps to 1.8 for some reason and the volts were around 18.5?
[19:35:37] <XXCoder> fur one nice thing is that it can be bought parts a time, and finally built, and it looks quite nice when done
[19:35:40] <PetefromTn_> I backed it down to 1.5 amps
[19:35:58] <Tom_itx> cookin more cookies
[19:36:04] <_methods> put it in one of those coolers full of ice lol
[19:36:04] <archivist> an old Kepco psu would also have the ability
[19:36:05] <PetefromTn_> trying to
[19:36:07] <Tom_itx> don't burn this batch
[19:36:14] <furrywolf> XXCoder: again, I don't think pete wants to learn analog electronic design just to anodize parts.
[19:36:32] <PetefromTn_> I don't think I have burned anything need more power I think
[19:36:33] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I know that already. I wasnt commenting for pete. :P
[19:36:47] <Tom_itx> pretty sure you do
[19:37:10] <PetefromTn_> what need more power?
[19:37:11] <Tom_itx> get a dc arc welder
[19:37:18] <_methods> lol
[19:37:24] <_methods> that'll do it
[19:37:28] <PetefromTn_> Got a DC/AC tig welder
[19:37:35] <Tom_itx> you think i'm kiddin...
[19:37:42] <_methods> no it's a power supply
[19:37:45] <_methods> that will do it
[19:37:50] <Tom_itx> duty cycle would be too low on it
[19:38:02] <_methods> depends on the quality of the welder
[19:38:05] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electronic-Measurement-EMI-SCR-20-40-OV-DC-Power-Supply-0-20-V-0-40-/380896710923 20V 40A... old but good.
[19:38:17] <PetefromTn_> mine is an L-tec 350 amp unit
[19:38:20] <furrywolf> I don't know of a welder that will accurately regulate a 1A output.
[19:38:29] <Tom_itx> usually they're low V and high A
[19:38:34] <_methods> waht is the duty cycle listed on it
[19:38:49] <_methods> i've never heard of ltec
[19:38:53] <PetefromTn_> ok resetting timer now
[19:39:04] <PetefromTn_> its the same people as ESAB now
[19:39:22] <_methods> oh jesus
[19:39:23] <_methods> burn it
[19:39:34] <_methods> just kidding
[19:40:04] <furrywolf> oh well, since yours seems to be working, I'll stop looking for good deals on ebay... but if it fries, consider replacing it with a used non-chinese unit.
[19:40:25] <furrywolf> a 10A supply overheating at 2A is... very chinese.
[19:41:14] <XXCoder> if chinese hardware specs to something I belive to 10% of it
[19:41:15] <jdh> 10 chinese amps
[19:41:26] <XXCoder> so 10A spec means its rated to 1A
[19:41:30] <furrywolf> heh
[19:41:49] <XXCoder> if it has 1 mm precision I belive 1 cm precision :P
[19:42:34] <furrywolf> yeah, I like some of the tolerances claimed on chinese machines...
[19:42:46] <furrywolf> .001mm accuracy!
[19:43:05] <XXCoder> yeah I think I would apply 1% on that case
[19:43:08] <XXCoder> aka .1 mm
[19:43:51] <furrywolf> these are the same machines that make chinese stuff you buy where parts are a quarter inch away from fitting together. :)
[19:44:15] <XXCoder> my machine precision is good enough for me
[19:44:31] <XXCoder> I need only .003 accuracy or so
[19:44:38] <XXCoder> .003" specifically
[19:45:02] <PetefromTn_> damn it clicked off again
[19:45:16] <XXCoder> check for hot spots on it?
[19:45:17] <PetefromTn_> It does not seem to like anything north of 1 amp or so
[19:45:24] <PetefromTn_> Oh it is plenty hot LOL
[19:45:40] <furrywolf> it shouldn't be getting that hot at 1A. it may have something else wrong with it.
[19:45:47] <PetefromTn_> I am sure
[19:45:56] <PetefromTn_> or I am completely not using it correctly
[19:46:15] <furrywolf> there should be no method of using it that results in it failing. :)
[19:46:23] <PetefromTn_> when it turned back on the bubbles were going good again and the current was set to 1.5 amps
[19:46:32] <furrywolf> operating at high currents into a short tends to annoy them, but you said you were at >12V.
[19:46:43] <furrywolf> and low current.
[19:46:53] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: does it have fans and is fana working?
[19:47:08] <PetefromTn_> it seems to show 14-15v and like I said no more than 1.6 amps
[19:47:15] <PetefromTn_> before it shuts down
[19:47:25] <PetefromTn_> when I kept it at 1 amp before it worked for hours
[19:47:40] <PetefromTn_> I am wondering if it is actually 1 amp and not more than that
[19:47:50] <PetefromTn_> perhaps the readout is not working correctly
[19:48:03] <Tom_itx> i can tell you how to find out :)
[19:48:04] <PetefromTn_> the bubbles and heat generated to the wires sure seems like a lot
[19:48:11] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know thanks tom
[19:48:24] <PetefromTn_> I actually used to have a meter that measured amps
[19:48:29] <PetefromTn_> but I loaned it out
[19:48:30] <furrywolf> that the wires are getting hot is a little odd.
[19:48:33] <PetefromTn_> and now it does not work at all
[19:48:41] <furrywolf> you could make your own current shunt and use a voltmeter.
[19:48:45] <PetefromTn_> when it is cooking good the wires were quite hot
[19:48:55] <Tom_itx> thermal shutdown
[19:49:02] <PetefromTn_> lots of bubbles from the cathodes
[19:49:18] <PetefromTn_> like sheets of bubbles you can see it in that last video I posted
[19:49:18] <archivist> I dont expect 1.6 amps to get wires hot
[19:49:19] <furrywolf> 1.6A shouldn't make anything but the thinnest wire hot.
[19:49:40] <PetefromTn_> the wires that hook to the unit via the alligator clips are pretty small
[19:49:46] <PetefromTn_> but it is what it came with
[19:49:56] <Tom_itx> get some bigger wire
[19:50:03] <PetefromTn_> I would not think they would sell it with that wire if it were not enough for the max capacity of the unit?
[19:50:12] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: here's a random test for you... get your voltmeter out, and measure the voltage on the wires that connect between the supply and the alligator clips. that is, with it running, sneak the probe into the connector at the supply, and measure to the aligator clip on the same wire.
[19:50:12] <XXCoder> maybe shit quality wites
[19:50:14] <Tom_itx> pfft it's chinese
[19:50:14] <PetefromTn_> I can put bigger wires on it
[19:50:15] <XXCoder> wires
[19:50:43] <XXCoder> it may be getting hot trying to push 1.6A
[19:50:49] <XXCoder> because high wires resistance?
[19:50:55] <furrywolf> I want to see how much voltage you are dropping along each of the two wires.
[19:51:14] <PetefromTn_> lemme grab some larger wires and hook it up with that
[19:51:19] <furrywolf> XXCoder: instant current shunts. :)
[19:51:26] <Tom_itx> you need a volt meter across the 2 probes and an ammeter in series
[19:51:46] <PetefromTn_> the funny thing is the Titanium wire that came from Casewells is not real thick either and it gets pretty hot
[19:52:03] <furrywolf> I'm wondering if you didn't damage the current meter or internal current shunt... there's no way you're making any non-tiny wire hot at 1.6A.
[19:52:42] <furrywolf> you can run 1.5A through a usb cable and it doesn't get hot. :)
[19:52:58] <PetefromTn_> that is what I am wondering
[19:53:04] <PetefromTn_> these wires are pretty hot man
[19:53:11] <PetefromTn_> and the bubbles are substantial
[19:53:12] <furrywolf> how does the bubbling compare to the bubbling yesterday?
[19:53:25] <PetefromTn_> I watched a video of another guy using a damn car battery
[19:53:30] <furrywolf> do you have a harbor freight or radioshack nearby you can get a meter at?
[19:53:47] <PetefromTn_> and while there are more bubbles a car battery directly hooked to the parts has no regulation
[19:53:53] <PetefromTn_> so lots of amps going in
[19:54:02] <furrywolf> do you have any scraps of wire of known size? (romex, old extension cords, etc)
[19:54:04] <PetefromTn_> and it did not seem to be a helluva lot more
[19:54:14] <PetefromTn_> I have tons of wires around here
[19:54:44] <PetefromTn_> lemme let it cool down again and I am going to hook it up without the small wires that it came with. I will use the same wires I used for the cathodes
[19:54:57] <furrywolf> do you have a meter that measures low voltages? (under 12V)
[19:55:14] <PetefromTn_> my meter has a setting for DC 200m
[19:55:30] <furrywolf> and, do you feel like a quick project that'll help you learn something about basic electronics and test the current of your supply at the same time?
[19:55:46] <PetefromTn_> I am wondering if the meter on the unit is reading in a factor of 10 or something
[19:56:19] <furrywolf> we can test that! :)
[19:56:35] <PetefromTn_> ya know I realize I come across as a moron electrically but at one time I was an Aviation Electronics tech in the USCG and worked on aircraft to the component level LOL
[19:56:57] <PetefromTn_> that was in another life it seems now
[19:57:00] <furrywolf> good, then building a current shunt will be easy for you.
[19:57:10] <PetefromTn_> how
[19:57:15] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: yeah different periods of life
[19:57:16] <furrywolf> what type of wire do you have lying around? something between #18 and #14 will be best.
[19:57:26] <XXCoder> I used to be damn good on some stuff I cant do crap now
[19:57:34] <furrywolf> it needs to be a wire you _know_ the size of, as in printed on the side of it.
[19:57:44] <PetefromTn_> how much do I need?
[19:57:52] <Tom_itx> not alot
[19:57:55] <XXCoder> I used to understand matrix transforms (before college even) in order to make my project work
[19:57:56] <Tom_itx> it's gonna be a shunt
[19:58:10] <XXCoder> if you guys wanna see my souce code its still uploaded to git lol
[19:58:15] <PetefromTn_> how many feet?
[19:58:26] <Tom_itx> probably less than one
[19:58:32] <PetefromTn_> I have a huge box full of wires from the CNC build
[19:58:51] <_methods> PetefromTn_: if you go to mouser and search for a 0-10A power supply the cheapest one is like $400
[19:59:06] <furrywolf> depends on the size. let's just say 5ft for now, but grab a longer piece if you have one.
[19:59:10] <furrywolf> #18 would be ideal
[19:59:11] <PetefromTn_> _methods and this helps me how? ;)
[19:59:11] <_methods> so don't feel bad if you power supply isn't exactly doing what it's "rated" at
[19:59:30] <PetefromTn_> OK hang on let me see what I got
[19:59:33] <_methods> i'm just saying i doubt you'll get 10A at 30v with it
[19:59:43] <_methods> especially for hours on end
[19:59:56] <Tom_itx> you may get 10A OR 30v
[20:00:21] <_methods> exactly what Tom_itx said
[20:02:15] <PetefromTn_> OK I got a piece of marked 14 gauge 68" long
[20:02:36] <furrywolf> perfect
[20:02:39] <XXCoder> that reminds me, I need to go get 14 gauge white wire lol
[20:02:53] <XXCoder> to complete 4 color wires collection to build my cnc
[20:03:07] <furrywolf> now put it in series with the output of the supply. measure its length exactly (within a half inch) first, if that 68 was just an approximation.
[20:03:21] <archivist> http://chemandy.com/calculators/round-wire-resistance-calculator.htm
[20:04:04] <PetefromTn_> which side pos or neg
[20:04:15] <furrywolf> #14 wire is 2.525 milliohms / foot, or 0.014308333 ohms for 68 inches.
[20:04:15] <furrywolf> either one
[20:04:29] <Tom_itx> it's a closed loop, doesn't matter
[20:04:30] <furrywolf> all that matters is the current flows through it, and you know its exact size and length.
[20:04:57] <PetefromTn_> if I hook it up to the terminal and the other end to the positive side I will get another wire for the negative side here
[20:04:59] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[20:05:22] <PetefromTn_> well like I said it is marked 14 gauge and I measured it with a tape measure to 68 inches long
[20:05:26] <furrywolf> also grab your meter with the 200mV scale
[20:05:27] <PetefromTn_> wait a sec
[20:05:45] <PetefromTn_> let me get this setup
[20:13:39] <PetefromTn_> okay removed the original small diameter wire/gator clip leads
[20:13:54] <XXCoder> probably 25gauge :P
[20:13:58] <XXCoder> kidding
[20:14:05] <PetefromTn_> replaced the negative wire with some of that 14 gauge wire and hooked it to the cathode wire
[20:14:37] <PetefromTn_> put a little crimp connector on the positive wire 68" long and screwed it under the positive terminal
[20:14:52] <PetefromTn_> used the same crimp connector on the negative terminal side too
[20:15:13] <PetefromTn_> now I am trying to find a damn inline crimp to hook it to the part/anode side
[20:15:17] <furrywolf> now, connect your meter to the piece of wire you measured. connect the meter _to the wire_ itself, not to the connections you made to it. the connections will make it not read correctly. strip off slightly more insulation if you have to, so you can get the meter probes directly on the wire. to make it easier, so you don't have to hold the probes, you can probably use the alligator clip wires that came with the supply in place of the probes, and clip th
[20:15:17] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[20:15:59] <PetefromTn_> lemme get the circuit closed here
[20:16:01] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[20:17:00] <furrywolf> k
[20:18:03] <PetefromTn_> okay I just put a wire nut on the wire end where it connects to my green wire that goes to the part/anode
[20:18:15] <PetefromTn_> I can probably stick the lead into the wire nut easily
[20:18:25] <PetefromTn_> just subtract a half inch from the length
[20:18:49] <PetefromTn_> so where do I measure from
[20:18:53] <furrywolf> you don't want it to be part of the same connection. strip back the wire further and connect the meter directly to the wire.
[20:19:06] <PetefromTn_> at both ends?
[20:19:11] <furrywolf> yes
[20:19:20] <PetefromTn_> Okay then what
[20:19:30] <furrywolf> just take a little chunk out of the side with a knife
[20:19:39] <PetefromTn_> I will
[20:19:44] <furrywolf> then connect your meter to both ends of the wire. :)
[20:19:54] <PetefromTn_> put the meter in 200m mode and go across the wire.
[20:20:04] <furrywolf> use the alligator clips that came with your power supply to connect the meter, so you don't need to hold the probes.
[20:20:19] <furrywolf> assuming both your benchtop supply and your meter use banana jacks, they should just plug into the meter.
[20:20:34] <PetefromTn_> I will turn on the power supply and set it for 1 amp I guess
[20:20:52] <furrywolf> yep, and see what the meter reads.
[20:20:56] <PetefromTn_> the wires to the power supply it came with have hoop/ring terminals
[20:21:04] <furrywolf> ah, never mind then.
[20:21:07] <PetefromTn_> so that will not work
[20:21:10] <PetefromTn_> standby
[20:21:13] <PetefromTn_> lemme test it
[20:24:16] <PetefromTn_> meter reads 74.0 take away an inch due to cutting and crimping
[20:25:30] <furrywolf> 2.525 milliohms / foot * 67 inches is 0.014097917 ohms. 74.0 millivolts / 0.014097917 ohms is.... 5.2490024 amps.
[20:25:45] <PetefromTn_> meter is reading 1 amp currently
[20:25:57] <PetefromTn_> I figured that was the case it is not reading right
[20:26:45] <furrywolf> now, try this. make a second nick in the side of the wire 47.5 inches from one of your other nicks, and measure there. should make the meter read about 52.4.
[20:27:10] <furrywolf> 47.5 inches will give you a nice round .01 ohms, so all you have to do is move the decimal point, no math.
[20:27:53] <PetefromTn_> wierd
[20:28:15] <PetefromTn_> just checked it again after making sure the supply was set to 1 amp
[20:28:16] <XXCoder> 5a?
[20:28:26] <PetefromTn_> got 33.3 on the meter
[20:29:44] <furrywolf> hrmm. there could well be components in common between both the meter reading and the current regulation. if those components were bad, it could be randomizing the output current while displaying the same thing on the meter.
[20:30:40] <furrywolf> find a way to attach the meter probes to the wire 47.5 inches apart, such as using the alligator clips, without using the other end of the leads at all, just to hold your probes in place for you.
[20:30:52] <PetefromTn_> so 33.3 is about 2.5 amps or so
[20:31:19] <furrywolf> yep
[20:31:44] <furrywolf> but, as I said, if you measure between two nicks on the wire 47.5 inches apart, you'll get a direct reading with no math needed.
[20:32:15] <SpeedEvil> Plus or minus a bit for temperature
[20:32:23] <SpeedEvil> but it's generally jsut fine
[20:33:01] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: for these purposes, the temperature coefficient of the copper is utterly irrelevant. lol
[20:33:18] <furrywolf> we're talking a fraction of a percent, for a meter that might be off over a factor of 5.
[20:33:59] <PetefromTn_> shit
[20:34:06] <PetefromTn_> it thermal'd out again
[20:34:54] <furrywolf> measure out your nicks and attach probes while it cools down. :)
[20:34:54] <PetefromTn_> so I saw 74.4 the first time then 33.3 the next time.
[20:35:17] <PetefromTn_> sound to me like the unit was actually working but the meters are totally off on it
[20:35:41] <PetefromTn_> I know the VM was optimistic by about a volt or so
[20:35:55] <PetefromTn_> the one on the power supply that is
[20:36:04] <PetefromTn_> This is maddening I swear
[20:36:25] <PetefromTn_> So assuming it does work again
[20:36:37] <PetefromTn_> I will adjust to say a half an amp this time
[20:36:39] <furrywolf> yes, which is why I'm suggesting a way to hook the meter probes to the wire without needing to hold them, and making it read a direct indication, so you can use your multimeter to set the current rather than the power supply's meter.
[20:36:41] <PetefromTn_> and measure
[20:37:19] <PetefromTn_> okay will try that here while it decides if it will work again
[20:37:23] <furrywolf> no. connect the probes to two nicks on the wire 47.5" apart, then adjust the current knob until your multimeter reads 10.0, which will be 1A.
[20:37:35] <PetefromTn_> interesting that it actually saw 5.6 amps tho
[20:38:01] <PetefromTn_> okay
[20:38:10] <furrywolf> and, just to check, you are measuring directly to the wire you added, not to the connections you made on either end of it, right? if you measure to the connections, you'll get bunk numbers. :)
[20:38:36] <PetefromTn_> nope cut the shielding on the wire just behind the connections at both ends
[20:39:07] <furrywolf> perfect.
[20:39:42] <jt-alyeska> What's up guys?
[20:39:50] <renesis> i got a bike!
[20:40:02] <renesis> well, paid for it
[20:40:11] * renesis waiting, waiting, waiting
[20:40:12] <jt-alyeska> What kind
[20:40:14] <PetefromTn_> bike is a pretty generic term
[20:40:35] <renesis> 24" bmx cruiser, aluminum frame, steel forks and bars
[20:40:52] <PetefromTn_> nice
[20:40:58] <renesis> a this: http://www.dkbicycles.com/dk-sprinter-24-cruiser-green-metallic-2015-model
[20:41:31] <renesis> also i got a 13t for the small side of the flipflop hub, and some chain adjusters, and hopefully no more money spent
[20:42:58] <renesis> this has a 40t sprocket, last bike i had a 39t sprocket, and 16t and 13t freewheels, had it a few years almost never used the 16t
[20:43:22] <renesis> crazy long gearing for the win
[20:43:24] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/mxxdq6y8z8M?t=44s human tool changer, how's that for turning the tables?
[20:44:05] <renesis> capthindsight: ha, that guys earns his pay
[20:44:19] <jt-alyeska> Nice
[20:44:47] <XXCoder> yea saw that
[20:44:53] <renesis> i have collet holders so i have to rezero between tools, have to cut the programs up
[20:45:01] * renesis hands out tiny violins
[20:45:07] <_methods> os1r1s: jt-alyeska is the guy you want to thank
[20:45:11] <jt-alyeska> lol
[20:45:35] <XXCoder> renesis: im considering Z plate addon evenually
[20:46:13] <renesis> is that where you would toolchange by clamping the tool with the end flat on a reference?
[20:46:36] <XXCoder> no, it just automically goes to specific spot and slowly lowers till it touches
[20:46:49] <XXCoder> using z plate and power charge
[20:46:53] <renesis> oh its contact referencing
[20:47:35] <PetefromTn_> Okay
[20:47:41] <PetefromTn_> just turned it back on
[20:48:00] <renesis> for the EMs that prob works, id be paranoid about the engravers and pcb drills
[20:48:02] <PetefromTn_> set the meter to be hooked up at 47.5 inches between the leads
[20:48:21] <PetefromTn_> increased the current until the METER read 10.0
[20:48:28] <PetefromTn_> meter on PPS says .4
[20:48:29] <renesis> heh, unless it was really high voltage
[20:48:34] <PetefromTn_> it is in current mode
[20:48:44] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_:
[20:48:46] <zeeshan> did it turn out good?!?!
[20:48:51] * zeeshan hasnt seen the conversation
[20:48:55] <PetefromTn_> volts on PPS meter says 6.5
[20:49:06] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan FUCKING DISASTER
[20:49:18] <zeeshan> fak
[20:49:43] <zeeshan> came out like the other pic?
[20:49:45] <jt-aleska> http://ibin.co/28K7BYDOfChI
[20:49:50] <PetefromTn_> okay so I SHOULD be putting 2.1 amps into these two parts so is it safe to assume that 20.0 on the meter is what I need?
[20:50:03] <renesis> jt-aleska: crazy
[20:50:17] <furrywolf> so, assuming that was indeed #14 wire and your 200mV scale is accurate, that's 1A.
[20:50:20] <furrywolf> 21.0
[20:50:23] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/4Ie3TYo.jpg
[20:50:26] <_methods> ah the foot hills
[20:50:27] <PetefromTn_> OK
[20:50:27] <_methods> nice
[20:50:30] <zeeshan> garden is set!
[20:50:59] <furrywolf> check on it to be sure it's stable, and not wandering around randomly due to the power supply not regulating.
[20:51:35] <furrywolf> also, next time you're out shopping, invest in a meter that measures amps directly...
[20:51:51] <renesis> sense resistors ftw
[20:52:31] <furrywolf> also, the #14 wire you're using is decent quality wire, right? specifically, not speaker cable.
[20:52:48] <renesis> speaker cable ftl
[20:54:35] <renesis> http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire.html
[20:54:37] <PetefromTn_> Okay just tweaked it to 20.1 for the 2.1 amps
[20:54:43] <renesis> damn i think it went up =(
[20:54:48] <PetefromTn_> it seems to respond very well
[20:54:57] <PetefromTn_> to inputs at the power supply controls
[20:55:08] <PetefromTn_> the fine adjustment is very good
[20:55:21] <PetefromTn_> right now the meter is showing .9 amps on the PPS
[20:55:32] <PetefromTn_> but the current meter we setup again is at 20.1
[20:56:00] <PetefromTn_> voltage is showing 10.9v on the PPS but I don't want to disconnect my meter to check what it actually is.
[20:56:09] <PetefromTn_> SO if this is all correct
[20:56:47] <PetefromTn_> that means that when I was anodizing this part last time for 120 minutes at 1 amp according to the power supply meter it was actually getting like 2.6 amps or so
[20:57:03] <PetefromTn_> which is way more than it was supposed to be getting
[20:57:06] <renesis> the panel meter is that far off?
[20:57:12] <PetefromTn_> apparently
[20:57:24] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna make another short video
[20:57:28] <renesis> because the sense resistor is prob to close to your load resistance
[20:57:30] <renesis> that sucks
[20:58:32] <furrywolf> I think the power supply broke earlier today when you did the short-circuit test.
[20:58:54] <renesis> that happens
[20:58:57] <furrywolf> does the bubbling at the cathodes today look like about double the 1A yesterday?
[20:59:24] <renesis> its not really supposed to, but if you dont zero out the voltage and rise up to get the current you want when shorted, sometimes they pop
[20:59:51] <furrywolf> renesis: a name-brand power supply will take being shorted under any operating conditions without issue.
[21:00:02] <renesis> they get old
[21:00:25] <renesis> and like i said, theyre not supposed to pop
[21:00:35] <furrywolf> they also get copied by china, leaving out important parts, and substituting counterfeits for the rest.
[21:01:11] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf yes indeed it does
[21:01:15] <renesis> sometimes
[21:01:32] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: so you can figure that the earlier 1A tests were really 1A.
[21:01:48] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[21:01:49] <CaptHindsight> "Caution. Power supply is intended for use with anodizing or plating (or powering anything) it is for making money. See who you ca sell it to next to pass along the fun."
[21:02:02] <CaptHindsight> +not
[21:02:07] <furrywolf> but, just to check since I didn't see an answer, the #14 wire is decent quality wire, and not speaker cable, right?
[21:02:22] <XXCoder> furrywolf: or just cheaper compoments. few years laptop fires was due to subuation of certain type of lathanium for other
[21:02:28] <XXCoder> good grief cant spell at all.
[21:02:47] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: I syarted it :)
[21:03:07] <furrywolf> speaker cable often has imaginary information printed on it. :)
[21:03:28] <renesis> xxcoder: a lot of times its just designing with less overhead
[21:03:41] <PetefromTn_> it is NOT speaker wire
[21:03:48] <renesis> so extreme operating conditions or age or repeated abuse will kill them
[21:03:54] <furrywolf> good :)
[21:03:58] <PetefromTn_> it is the same exact wire that came in the Cincinatti Arrow 500 control electronics enclosure
[21:04:03] <PetefromTn_> stdby for video
[21:04:06] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[21:04:06] <furrywolf> renesis: he's using a BRAND NEW chinese power supply.
[21:04:17] <furrywolf> it broke the second day of use.
[21:04:27] <furrywolf> it has nothing to do with extreme operating conditions, age, or repeated abuse.
[21:04:32] <PetefromTn_> well technically not sure it has actually broken
[21:04:40] <renesis> shorting out a lab supply is abuse
[21:04:44] <PetefromTn_> it seems like it actually just does not read right
[21:04:53] <furrywolf> a major function of it no longer functions. that's broken. make them send you a new one. :)
[21:04:55] <renesis> with the voltages set high
[21:04:57] <PetefromTn_> not according to the instructions..
[21:05:12] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf I think I will
[21:05:25] <PetefromTn_> tomorrow if this does not work correctly
[21:05:31] <CaptHindsight> send it back for refund, get better supply next time
[21:05:38] <furrywolf> check it with a current-reading meter first. there's always the risk my current shunt is wrong for whatever reason. I could have done math wrong, the wire could be undersized, your 200mv meter could be off, etc.
[21:05:40] <PetefromTn_> or worse
[21:05:42] <renesis> intermittent prob are bad
[21:05:49] <renesis> petefromtn_: where did you buy it from?
[21:05:57] <PetefromTn_> fleabay
[21:06:00] <CaptHindsight> fleabay
[21:06:05] <renesis> oh
[21:06:09] <renesis> what chinabrand?
[21:06:44] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271652928843?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[21:06:46] <renesis> i got a mastech, it stopped regulating
[21:07:17] <renesis> or the adjust pot is that fucked
[21:07:40] <renesis> yeah thats ultra generic
[21:08:01] <sector_0> are zip ties strong enough to secure a bushing on a cnc
[21:08:13] <sector_0> p.s. I'm only going to be routing pcbs
[21:08:30] <sector_0> it doesn't need to hand large loads like aluminum milling
[21:08:31] <renesis> theres a few places ive bought supplies like that online, around for awhile, those last awhile, abusive daily use in a lab
[21:08:34] <CaptHindsight> Brokensun, Nowerks, Werksonce, Superdeal etc
[21:08:54] <renesis> sector_0: pcb routing is pretty much unloaded
[21:09:07] <renesis> so if the shit dont move, shrug
[21:09:12] <renesis> use lots of zip ties?
[21:09:30] <renesis> i would totally cover with epoxy or at least hot glue
[21:09:30] <furrywolf> sector_0: zip ties have a hard time securing themselves sometimes.
[21:09:32] <CaptHindsight> Meantwell
[21:09:53] <sector_0> furrywolf, heh
[21:09:54] <renesis> meanwell supplies are good
[21:10:20] <CaptHindsight> chinese knockoff of chinese knockoff
[21:10:31] <sector_0> renesis, so do you suggest zip ties AND hot glue, or just hot glue?
[21:10:35] <sector_0> ...or epoxy
[21:10:55] <XXCoder> rippoff all way down
[21:11:21] <CaptHindsight> looks like Nobrand
[21:11:38] <renesis> zip ties to kind of tack it in position, then use epoxy or hot glue depending how permanent
[21:11:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah thanks guys I get the point
[21:11:48] <PetefromTn_> It
[21:11:51] <renesis> i really like the loctite hysol stuff
[21:11:57] <PetefromTn_> IS
[21:11:58] <PetefromTn_> A
[21:12:00] <PetefromTn_> PIECE
[21:12:01] <PetefromTn_> OF
[21:12:03] <PetefromTn_> CHINESE
[21:12:04] <PetefromTn_> SHIT
[21:12:30] <renesis> all the types ive used are like perfect mix of hardness and flexibility
[21:12:40] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/OswAAMXQfvlSntJv/$_57.JPG no name on the back either
[21:12:41] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoCYvPCAK2A&feature=youtu.be
[21:13:41] <renesis> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi-power-supplies
[21:13:49] <renesis> i trust these guys
[21:14:09] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: next time you're out, get a meter with a working current scale, and check the accuracy with that.
[21:14:18] <sector_0> renesis, what about using something like a conduit strap?
[21:14:36] <furrywolf> or buy a fuse for that meter. :)
[21:14:43] <renesis> whats the bushing for?
[21:15:21] <renesis> i wouldnt trust a zip tie or strap without some sort of adhesive to keep it from moving
[21:16:21] <renesis> and its gotta be something hard like hot glue or epoxy
[21:16:40] <furrywolf> I see a 10A scale on the meter... usually there's an internal fuse that blows when it's overloaded. it's usually an odd size, and usually only available at electronics stores.
[21:16:46] <sector_0> renesis, the zip tie/strap is going to secure the linear rail bushing to the carriage
[21:16:53] <furrywolf> also, yay, I'm mentioned in a youtube video. :)
[21:16:57] <furrywolf> but it should be 21.0, not 20.1
[21:17:27] <furrywolf> (of course, with the accuracy of a home-made shunt like that, if you're within 15%...)
[21:17:56] <PetefromTn_> Oh okay 21.0
[21:18:01] <PetefromTn_> I will tweak it
[21:18:03] <XXCoder> in least he now reasonable know whats going on
[21:18:06] <renesis> i wouldnt both replacing the current meter fuse, just buy a precision sense resistor and use the DMM across it
[21:18:09] <PetefromTn_> does everything else look right?
[21:18:11] <XXCoder> so it was using way too much current?
[21:18:33] <furrywolf> yep
[21:18:34] <renesis> wait youre using wire as a sense resistor?
[21:18:47] <renesis> balls
[21:19:27] <Tom_itx> probably closer than his meter was
[21:19:33] <furrywolf> renesis: as it turns out, most people don't happen to have a collection of precision current shunts and sense resistors.
[21:20:16] <malcom2073> I'm just going to point out, that this is the kind of hacky shit ya'll make fun of reprap for
[21:20:17] * malcom2073 runs
[21:20:18] <malcom2073> :P
[21:20:51] <renesis> repraps wobble, i dont even thing you should bring it up in a machine tool chan
[21:20:56] <furrywolf> but, as I said, check it with a proper meter... the shunt could be wrong. wire varries, and cheap meters often have cheap millivolt scales. I could also have made a math or research error. but, with the power supply hitting thermal shutdown, and the original wires getting toasty hot, I suspect it's right.
[21:21:03] <renesis> youre just asking for hate
[21:22:21] <PetefromTn_> malcom2073 Yeah I know it is hacky as hell
[21:22:29] <malcom2073> Seems to work though yeah? :P
[21:22:38] <PetefromTn_> well at least for the time being
[21:22:42] <PetefromTn_> the parts are cooking
[21:22:44] <renesis> do you have a frys?
[21:23:01] <renesis> or radio shack?
[21:23:22] <XXCoder> I usually call raio shack radio hack
[21:23:24] <PetefromTn_> I will say that one of the parts has sort of stopped bubbling and the other continues to cook
[21:23:24] <renesis> props if you actually have a real electronics shop within driving distance
[21:23:26] <PetefromTn_> not sure why
[21:23:39] <furrywolf> check for a loose wire to it
[21:24:04] <PetefromTn_> I THINK that the part that stopped is the one I have done twice now and it is possible that it is already anodized fully?
[21:24:05] <renesis> xxcoder: yeah i dont like being in there, but its saved my ass a ton of time at work for cables and adapters, jacks, connectors
[21:24:32] <PetefromTn_> or the TI wire I jammed into the tapped hole has lost contact
[21:24:35] <renesis> frys is much better, frys has like a whole aisle of pomona cables and test accessories
[21:24:44] <PetefromTn_> but I think that the wire gets all black when that happens
[21:24:50] <PetefromTn_> and it is not really black at all
[21:24:59] <XXCoder> frys is awesome indeed
[21:25:06] <XXCoder> and 45 minutes away for me
[21:25:14] <PetefromTn_> Today has NOT gone the way I had hoped it would
[21:25:25] <XXCoder> which isnt too bad now since I fixed my van and mpg has gone way up.
[21:25:28] <PetefromTn_> and I am STILL not sure about the dyeing stage
[21:25:41] <furrywolf> the wire won't do anything because the current can still flow through the other part
[21:25:44] <PetefromTn_> I just bought another van heh
[21:25:47] <furrywolf> has your voltage gone up?
[21:26:06] <PetefromTn_> not according to the chinese meter on the display
[21:26:40] <renesis> do you have any resistors to check the meter with?
[21:26:55] <PetefromTn_> ?
[21:27:10] <PetefromTn_> not my hand meter the meter on the power supply
[21:27:26] <PetefromTn_> it seems to be off by at least a volt and a half
[21:27:27] <renesis> right im saying to check either
[21:27:38] <furrywolf> if you had a resistor of a known value, like a 1 ohm resistor, you could calibrate both meters... but I'm figuring you probably do not.
[21:27:42] <renesis> heh, maybe someone fucked with the trim pots on the meters
[21:27:46] <PetefromTn_> I have some resistors somewhere around here
[21:28:05] <furrywolf> will be big power resistors, not little pcb ones
[21:28:08] <renesis> you prob want something low ohms, high watt
[21:28:23] <renesis> well if he has lots of little pcb ones, he can make a power resistor
[21:28:32] <PetefromTn_> yeah these are board type resistors
[21:28:44] <renesis> and get the resistance lower to maybe use as a sense resistor
[21:29:05] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I bought a power supply so I did not have to screw around with this type of crap LOL
[21:29:11] <renesis> if you have lots that are under 100R, you can prob make something
[21:29:42] <renesis> yeah but you bought random ebay supply, which is gambling at best
[21:29:47] <PetefromTn_> should have bought the one Captain recommended but it was like $275.00
[21:30:18] <renesis> or buy from a site that sells decent test gear along side the cheap shit, and has their name on it
[21:30:39] <furrywolf> I usually buy used american instead of new chinese when I can.
[21:30:59] <PetefromTn_> I honestly would not know if it was good even if it had a name seemed they were all made in china including the one Capt recommended to me LOL
[21:31:33] <renesis> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/linear_power_supplies
[21:32:26] <renesis> http://www.techni-tool.com/310TE9110
[21:32:39] <PetefromTn_> those all look like the same chinese stuff to me
[21:32:47] <XXCoder> I remember this advert banner "MADE IN USA!"... in back it says "Made in China"
[21:32:51] <renesis> right but these are companies you can call on the phone
[21:32:56] <renesis> that sell to engineering labs
[21:33:23] <renesis> Made in the USA = Cut Mad Corners to Stay Competitive
[21:33:37] <XXCoder> when I told someone that has that same banner on back of car this
[21:33:48] <XXCoder> he didnt belive me till I showed the tiny print in back at store
[21:34:18] <furrywolf> I'll put my Lambda supplies against chinese supplies any day. :)
[21:34:22] * furrywolf doesn't think they cut many corners
[21:34:40] <XXCoder> even cut corners has its corners cut off
[21:34:44] <renesis> how old is it
[21:34:46] <XXCoder> till there is no corners left
[21:34:54] <furrywolf> one's probably 20 years the other 30...
[21:35:01] <furrywolf> both work like the day they were made.
[21:35:09] <renesis> made in america 15 years ago isnt the same as made in america 2015
[21:35:53] <furrywolf> I mounted my rack-mount one under my workbench... just found some aluminum channel extrusion the right height, screwed it to the bottom of the workbench, and slid it in.
[21:36:09] <renesis> kinky
[21:37:08] <XXCoder> renesis: agreed. noit even chinese 2005 is same as chinese 2015. my lawn chair lasted long time, and currents ones are so weak
[21:37:23] <renesis> made in china is about QA
[21:37:33] <renesis> so its usually still about the company youre buying from
[21:37:34] <XXCoder> 10 years later lawn chair would catch on fire in sun and fall over by stress from being stared upon.
[21:38:03] <renesis> it could be all the same parts, just differences in assembly, and the reputable company will sell QA passing product
[21:38:15] <renesis> and the factory will just sell the QA rejects to someone else
[21:38:38] <renesis> the BOM is probably the same in a lot of cases
[21:39:27] <renesis> if youre doing it right, fake parts should matter as much as people think, because the fake parts would have to pass the same QA testing
[21:39:37] <renesis> shouldn't
[21:39:53] <furrywolf> ... china has QA?
[21:40:03] <renesis> you dont know how this works, do you?
[21:40:43] <_methods> heheh
[21:40:48] <renesis> aamerican companies will use chinese contract manufacturers, and the contract should include QA standards
[21:41:37] <renesis> what happens a lot if american companies will setup chinese offices, with american and/or foreign engineers, and babysit QA, sourcing, process
[21:41:45] * furrywolf is so glad that including something in a contract will mean chinese companies will follow it perfectly with absolutely no corner-cutting, fake paperwork, or bribery of inspectors.
[21:42:02] <malcom2073> furrywolf: They will follow it perfectly, however the devil is in the details :P
[21:42:14] <renesis> the reason that happened is because engineers living here got sick of going over there all the fucking time
[21:42:30] <renesis> furrywolf: they will when youre standing there
[21:42:43] <CaptHindsight> QA is the big thing
[21:42:45] <renesis> they will when you dont pay for product
[21:43:10] <furrywolf> know what happens every time you have a chinese company audit another chinese company? the audit company gets paid twice.
[21:43:24] <renesis> everything mass production is made in china, or some place else in asia, its like even south america and mexico is too expensive
[21:43:29] <renesis> but good things still exist
[21:43:48] <renesis> this means good things come from china, its very simple math
[21:44:06] <renesis> the difference is design for manufacturing and QA
[21:44:25] <furrywolf> my laptop proudly claims to be made in japan with no chinese parts. :P
[21:44:37] <CaptHindsight> if you see a product on fleabay that has the same specs as other products at twice the price, what should you think about this?
[21:44:40] <PetefromTn_> Well I just checked that one part that does not seem to be anodizing. The wire seems to be good inside there
[21:44:52] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: They must be more efficient at making it of course!
[21:44:53] <PetefromTn_> the other part is fuming and bubbling still tho
[21:44:55] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: could be, as you said, that one has cooked longer and is done.
[21:45:00] <renesis> furrywolf: your anecdote doesnt change anything
[21:45:06] <PetefromTn_> maybe I burned the crap out of it too many times LOL
[21:45:16] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: you could remove the bubbling part and see what the voltage is with just that part
[21:45:16] <renesis> they make what you design to your standard, for a price
[21:45:17] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: maybe its done?
[21:45:23] <furrywolf> or, it could be they'll equalize, as the less-cooked one catches up to it.
[21:45:28] <_methods> ding fries are done
[21:45:30] <renesis> companies wont pay the price or they dont know better about QA yet
[21:45:30] <PetefromTn_> no idea
[21:45:48] <PetefromTn_> the voltmeter says 7.8 volts but I just don't trust it anymore
[21:46:04] <renesis> man i had hash browns this morning, too much volume for the surface area
[21:46:06] <PetefromTn_> funny thing is the cathodes are still bubbling away real good
[21:46:07] <furrywolf> I've been really unhappy with chinese products lately. seems they reached a quality peak a while ago and are now going rapidly downhill.
[21:46:18] <renesis> was like a 3" roll of hash browns
[21:46:22] <CaptHindsight> lots of products have final assembly in the USA and are labeled made in the USA, that have all the parts made in China
[21:46:22] <PetefromTn_> and the ammeter setup we made is still holding at 21.o
[21:46:34] <renesis> capthindsight: ya
[21:46:35] <furrywolf> most chinese things I get are horribly misadvertised and promptly fail.
[21:46:41] <XXCoder> furrywolf: it may be case that more experenced compoanies there is still pretty good on QA, but there is hordes of ripoffs
[21:47:03] <XXCoder> most chinese stuff I got was pretty good
[21:47:04] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: california sued leatherman for having the mexican factory stamping USA into the forgings. :)
[21:47:09] <renesis> made in usa guitar will use the same hardware as chinese guitar, but they will charge 10x
[21:47:14] <renesis> literally 10x
[21:47:19] <CaptHindsight> in China I can find just about any popular product being copied right down to the color and texture
[21:47:49] <CaptHindsight> they are often made in the same factories after hours or they sell the QC rejects
[21:48:28] <CaptHindsight> there are inferior copies and also "product over runs" that fall off the trucks
[21:50:02] <PetefromTn_> what a freaking day it has been over here
[21:50:40] <PetefromTn_> several attempts, faulty power supply, rigging up all sorts of crazy shit testing, and STILL no damn anodized parts
[21:50:47] <PetefromTn_> it's like a greek tragedy
[21:51:30] <PetefromTn_> I guess I saved $200.00 and lost my sanity
[21:51:53] <furrywolf> maybe you need to have CaptHindsight lowered down from the ceiling...
[21:52:22] <PetefromTn_> not sure what that means
[21:52:27] <_methods> i you just gotta git'r'done use your battery charger
[21:52:33] <_methods> s/i/if
[21:52:47] <PetefromTn_> probably just blow up the damn battery charger
[21:52:57] <_methods> you'll have to adjust your time based on constant voltage instead of constant current though
[21:52:59] <PetefromTn_> it's not a top of the line model
[21:53:53] <furrywolf> deus ex machina... god from the machine... originally from greek tragedies, where they'd lower a god down from the ceiling to magically solve everyone's problems.
[21:53:55] <_methods> hell if you aren't breaking shit you're not making shit
[21:54:44] <furrywolf> the machine being the crane that lowerd the actor onto the set
[21:54:56] <PetefromTn_> well I guess I didn't technically break anything...the supply is actually doing something
[21:55:20] <PetefromTn_> would like to get a successful part anodized here somehow
[21:55:43] <PetefromTn_> wonder how bad a car battery would work LOL
[21:55:55] <PetefromTn_> I got a couple of those here ;)
[21:56:04] <zeeshan> it would work great
[21:56:18] <zeeshan> in anodizing, do you need the current limited?
[21:56:23] <zeeshan> or voltage limited
[21:56:34] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4TAeCjVEhs
[21:56:41] <zeeshan> cause i think it was voltage limited
[21:56:45] <zeeshan> but its been a while
[21:56:55] <furrywolf> current
[21:57:00] <zeeshan> oh okay
[21:57:07] <zeeshan> then a car battery woulkdnt be the greatest
[21:57:12] <zeeshan> unless you put it through a pot or something
[21:57:14] <furrywolf> so you have to use the right size charger. :)
[21:59:11] <PetefromTn_> jeez man this Power supply is a real POS
[21:59:16] <PetefromTn_> just checked it
[21:59:30] <PetefromTn_> and the current is still steady as a rock at 21.0
[21:59:48] <PetefromTn_> but now the current meter on the display says .5 amps and the voltage reads 7.4
[22:00:02] <zeeshan> wtf =/
[22:00:10] <XXCoder> crazt
[22:00:13] <PetefromTn_> parts are BOTH cooking now tho so I must have fixed the connection on the other part when I pulled it out
[22:00:49] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: both but a 12V battery is limited to 12V :)
[22:00:55] <PetefromTn_> even if furrywolf's impromptu ammeter is off slightly the fact is that current is flowing and it is very consistent in nature
[22:01:02] <CaptHindsight> so you can't burn through
[22:01:39] <zeeshan> i was trying to say constant current vs constant voltage supply..
[22:01:49] <CaptHindsight> his wire could serve as a current limit as well
[22:02:13] <furrywolf> lol
[22:02:14] <CaptHindsight> it's obviously not ideal but it works
[22:02:26] <furrywolf> wire is not a curremt limiting or fusing device. :)
[22:02:28] <PetefromTn_> do you think the fact that the VM is reading a consistent 21.0 mv that the part is getting what it needs Capt?
[22:02:52] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: I haven't been following that part of the discussion
[22:02:58] <PetefromTn_> the anodes are bubbling real good as they did before
[22:03:16] <PetefromTn_> well apparently the display on the new power supply is not accurate whatsoever
[22:03:18] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: short version: he made a shunt from 47.5 inches of #14 copper wire and is measuring the voltage across it.
[22:03:29] <CaptHindsight> I'm actually working with the occasional scroll back
[22:03:40] <PetefromTn_> Ok
[22:04:03] <PetefromTn_> I can't see how it could NOT be anodizing this way if there is current flowing as apparently there is
[22:04:30] <XXCoder> I guyess as long as its bubbling it is anodizing but dunno
[22:04:32] <PetefromTn_> according to furry's calculations we are putting out 2.1 amps into the two parts
[22:06:13] <PetefromTn_> actual voltage is unclear as I don't trust the power supplies meters
[22:06:31] <XXCoder> cant add another multimeter to check volt?
[22:06:33] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna see if I can dig up my old voltmeter and measure that while it is cooking
[22:06:49] <furrywolf> voltage might naturally drop as bath heats up
[22:06:55] <furrywolf> is bath warming?
[22:10:55] <PetefromTn_> Ok just checked it again.
[22:11:09] <PetefromTn_> current is still showing 21.0 mv
[22:11:26] <PetefromTn_> and I removed the meter and switched it to DC volts and got 10.6
[22:11:40] <PetefromTn_> that is acutally UP from the 7.6 I was getting earlier
[22:11:54] <PetefromTn_> I put the meter back to show current again
[22:12:27] <furrywolf> so the meter on the supply reads 7.4, but your multimeter reads 10.6?
[22:12:49] <PetefromTn_> current on the power supply is showing .9 amps which is what it showed initially when I adjusted the output to show 21.0mv
[22:12:54] <furrywolf> and your multimeter is not complaining about low battery, right? so BOTH meters on the supply are crap? lol
[22:13:18] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf no actually I checked it before and it was 7.6 or so and now it is 10.6
[22:13:38] <PetefromTn_> so I THINK that means the parts are indeed getting anodized because the voltage is actually increasing
[22:13:50] <furrywolf> that's good, I guess. means they're building up oxide.
[22:13:52] <PetefromTn_> no low battery
[22:13:58] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think so
[22:14:34] <PetefromTn_> both parts are bubbling and the cathodes are really bubbling good like they were before when the amps were apparenlty way high
[22:14:49] <PetefromTn_> the power supply does not feel too hot either
[22:14:56] <PetefromTn_> nor do the wires
[22:15:07] <PetefromTn_> maybe this setup will work after all
[22:15:23] <furrywolf> I just hope it doesn't turn out my shunt is wrong and the power supply is right. :)
[22:15:41] <XXCoder> fur doubtful as it apparenbtly was all over map
[22:15:46] <zeeshan> how long has it been anaodizing it?
[22:15:55] <XXCoder> last reading he said was 0.5A 7.5V something
[22:16:18] <PetefromTn_> well to be honest my timer says 1.04 hours
[22:16:33] <PetefromTn_> but I accidentally paused it one time when I put it in my pocket
[22:16:39] <PetefromTn_> so it is more than that
[22:16:53] <PetefromTn_> probably more like an hour and a half at least
[22:17:01] <PetefromTn_> I am using my smartphones timer
[22:17:18] <zeeshan> hope it works out
[22:17:22] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:17:23] <zeeshan> cant wait to see those sexys
[22:17:43] <PetefromTn_> did you see that car battery anodizing video?
[22:19:03] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4TAeCjVEhs at 1:06 you can see the bubbles coming off his SINGLE Cathode
[22:19:09] <PetefromTn_> it really is bubbling
[22:19:20] <PetefromTn_> and the cathode is just a round tube or something
[22:19:30] <PetefromTn_> my cathodes are TWO flat plates
[22:20:05] <PetefromTn_> and I would say that if you combined the bubbles coming off both of the plates at any one time it would be a touch less than he is showing coming off that single cathode
[22:20:25] <PetefromTn_> but if he is using a car battery I would presume he is outputting a LOT more than 2 amps
[22:20:51] <zeeshan> "toxicv fumes from cathode"
[22:20:52] <zeeshan> lol
[22:20:54] <zeeshan> what are they
[22:21:06] <XXCoder> breathe in to be immortal;
[22:21:20] <XXCoder> as winner of darwin awards ;)
[22:22:10] <XXCoder> "add heat till see vapor and add part"
[22:22:21] <PetefromTn_> yeah most of the time I go out there to check it I wear my mask
[22:22:39] <zeeshan> what does the vapor consist of?
[22:23:30] <PetefromTn_> hydrochloric acid vapor I believe....bad shit
[22:23:36] <zeeshan> ;/
[22:24:40] <PetefromTn_> I can say that just a whiff will choke you out LOL I got a whiff when I went out to check one time from across the shop.
[22:25:32] <XXCoder> hacky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-oiBKAyOY
[22:25:42] <zeeshan> explain practical anodizing to me
[22:25:53] <zeeshan> basically you put it in an acid beath and pass electricity
[22:25:58] <zeeshan> this removes the aluminum oxide layer
[22:26:09] <zeeshan> then you put it in die..
[22:26:18] <PetefromTn_> actually it creates the aluminum oxide layer
[22:26:18] <zeeshan> now the aluminum oxide reforms w/ the dye
[22:26:27] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:26:36] <zeeshan> so how does it hold the dye after?
[22:26:51] <XXCoder> it gets inside pores
[22:26:56] <XXCoder> then seal it in done
[22:27:10] <furrywolf> you probably should be exhausting it through an activated charcoal filter or something
[22:27:20] <zeeshan> so if i took a regular aluminum part
[22:27:23] <zeeshan> and dipped it in dye
[22:27:25] <zeeshan> what would happen?
[22:27:32] <zeeshan> (cause it has aluminum oxide on it too)
[22:27:36] <CaptHindsight> it would get wet
[22:27:37] <XXCoder> zeeshan: no pores
[22:27:48] <XXCoder> from what I understand its bit different
[22:27:51] <zeeshan> okay so yuoure making macroscopic pores
[22:27:56] <CaptHindsight> https://tpcabot.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/screenhunter_02-aug-26-11-58.jpg
[22:27:57] <zeeshan> er
[22:27:58] <zeeshan> miocroscopic
[22:28:03] <CaptHindsight> actually nanopores
[22:28:08] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight:
[22:28:12] <greg__> PetefromTn, did you get the PS figured out?
[22:28:16] <zeeshan> that hex thing is that aluminum oxide?
[22:28:16] <XXCoder> interesting picture
[22:28:21] <furrywolf> heh, I bet carbon filters are harder to get there... here you can get 3ft-4ft long and 18" diameter at about one in ten yard sales.
[22:28:24] <PetefromTn_> greg__ we figure out that it is a POS LOL
[22:28:31] <PetefromTn_> it works
[22:28:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www-old.mpi-halle.mpg.de/department2/fileadmin/user_upload/Research_Projects/Ordered_porous_Materials/Porous_Alumina/b_Fig_1a.jpg
[22:28:44] <PetefromTn_> but the readouts on the display are apparently way off from actual
[22:28:49] <XXCoder> POS PS lol
[22:28:57] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: what is that layer
[22:29:18] <zeeshan> alumina?
[22:29:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?w=&h=&cache=cache&media=anodizing.png
[22:29:51] <zeeshan> why does it form pores like that?
[22:29:56] <zeeshan> in such a neat manner
[22:30:05] <greg__> oh, I used one like that gosh almost 10 years ago but it worked OK. I have an ancient Sorensen and a younger than myslef Xantrex
[22:30:15] <XXCoder> sometimes physics create such structures zeeshan
[22:30:18] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: it starts at the atomic level
[22:30:29] <XXCoder> do you know why bee beehive cells is hexagon?
[22:30:47] <XXCoder> zeeshan: its because they are trying to make circles but structure turns em into hexagon
[22:30:51] <furrywolf> because god made them that way. duh.
[22:30:55] <XXCoder> dunno why on anodize process though
[22:31:59] <PetefromTn_> Okay just checked it again
[22:32:03] <PetefromTn_> still cooking good
[22:32:09] <PetefromTn_> Cathodes are bubbling nicely
[22:32:23] <PetefromTn_> power supply is still reading 21.0 mv output
[22:32:36] <XXCoder> how long left till its done
[22:32:39] <PetefromTn_> meter on Power supply shows .9 amps
[22:32:57] <PetefromTn_> however voltage has increased to 10.89v
[22:33:08] <XXCoder> whats V on hand meter
[22:33:14] <PetefromTn_> that is on hand meter
[22:33:24] <PetefromTn_> so it has indeed increased
[22:33:29] * furrywolf will kick self hard if it turns out the shunt is wrong and the power supply right, but thinks not, since the wires getting hot would imply a lot more current.
[22:33:34] <PetefromTn_> which is apparently what it is supposed to do
[22:33:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: this paper covers the growth well
[22:33:43] <XXCoder> yeah I recall fur saying so
[22:33:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.slideshare.net/Silio2/aluminum-anodizing-the-study-of-the-structure-of-the-alumina-layer-34171077
[22:34:07] <PetefromTn_> I don't think you are wrong furry... those wires were getting pretty hot
[22:34:24] <PetefromTn_> and the anodizing TI support wires were also pretty hot
[22:34:37] <zeeshan> what paper
[22:34:39] <PetefromTn_> the power supply itself is just warm now and it seems to be staying that way
[22:34:47] <XXCoder> zeeshan: he linked to it
[22:34:57] <XXCoder> it has pictures of that same hex shape
[22:35:03] <zeeshan> its face center cubic structure (aluminum)
[22:35:10] <PetefromTn_> according to my timer we have 46 minutes left but as I said I paused it accidentally
[22:35:12] <XXCoder> as well as long discription and maths so on
[22:35:22] * zeeshan skims
[22:35:23] <PetefromTn_> so no freaking idea what actual time is now unfortunately
[22:35:26] <furrywolf> looks like I'm buying http://chico.craigslist.org/cto/5115003620.html . It's not as nice as my now-crunched subaru, and it's got the blue interior I'm not too fond of, but it's hard to find them with clean bodies.
[22:35:40] <XXCoder> 600 isnt too bad
[22:35:51] <XXCoder> expecially if you has spares to make it fully workin
[22:36:10] <XXCoder> "giggle it" lol
[22:36:18] <furrywolf> I have a complete subaru that was perfect until it became a foot shorter. heh.
[22:36:28] <XXCoder> indeed
[22:36:45] <furrywolf> it still runs and drives... one of the back wheels is dragging due to the body being shoved into it, but other than that... heh
[22:36:56] <furrywolf> oh, and the whole car is twisted about 4"...
[22:36:56] <XXCoder> furrywolf: do cars take time to adjust to new distuator rotor?
[22:37:07] <furrywolf> XXCoder: a few miles tops
[22:37:19] <XXCoder> interesting. rough idle is slowly improving
[22:37:28] <XXCoder> but driving alnost like new van now
[22:37:50] <XXCoder> anyway its fine for now
[22:37:54] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: http://addis.caltech.edu/research/Self-organized%20formation%20of%20hexagonal%20pore%20arrays%20in%20anodic%20alumina,%20Jessensky%20et%20al,%20Apply%20Phys%20Lett.pdf
[22:37:55] <greg__> I'm curious as to what's up with that PS. how far of are teh meters?
[22:38:29] <XXCoder> greg__: not only far off, but apparently drifting. last he said it was 0.5A lol
[22:38:42] <zeeshan> you made me skim through this
[22:38:46] <zeeshan> 40+ page paper
[22:38:51] <zeeshan> just to give me a real paper after
[22:38:52] <zeeshan> thank u.
[22:39:07] <zeeshan> basically that paper said
[22:39:15] <PetefromTn_> greg__ I just can't trust the readouts unfortunately
[22:39:19] <furrywolf> greg__: I think something in the meter circuit fried during the short-circuit test earlier.
[22:39:24] <PetefromTn_> but the power output seems very consistent
[22:39:30] <PetefromTn_> at least according to my meter
[22:39:32] <zeeshan> "the repulsive forces between neighbouring pores in the metal oxide interface promote the formation of hex ordered pore arrangements
[22:39:34] <PetefromTn_> hand meter
[22:39:38] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: whats its current lies on amp and volt?
[22:39:51] <PetefromTn_> huh?
[22:39:58] <XXCoder> displayed amp and volt
[22:40:05] <XXCoder> not your hand meter
[22:40:06] <PetefromTn_> .9 amps
[22:40:14] <PetefromTn_> 11.7 volts
[22:40:26] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: did you get to see all the pictures?
[22:40:31] <zeeshan> yes
[22:40:42] <zeeshan> the abstracted of your second paper sums it up pretty good
[22:40:44] <zeeshan> This effect is correlated with a voltage dependence of the volume expansion of the aluminum during oxidation and the current efficiency for oxide formation. The resulting mechanical stress at the metal/oxide interface is proposed to cause repulsive forces between the neighboring pores which promote the formation of ordered hexagonal pore arrays
[22:40:45] <PetefromTn_> the voltmeter is actually increasing with the hand meter just the numbers are off by a volt or so
[22:40:59] <greg__> hmm not a very good supply, the short circuit is normal operating condition
[22:41:14] <zeeshan> i think thats pretty damn interesting
[22:41:16] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: sorry, i didn't have them in order for you
[22:41:22] <CaptHindsight> your majesty :)
[22:41:23] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: haha i was just complaining
[22:41:24] <zeeshan> :)
[22:41:32] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: so what if i blasted a part with aluminum oxide
[22:41:37] <XXCoder> zee is king? ah knew it
[22:41:40] <zeeshan> now it has pores -- granted not nano level
[22:41:45] <zeeshan> wouldn't the dye hold..
[22:41:51] <XXCoder> still need seal
[22:41:55] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight since my timer is off as I accidentally paused it
[22:42:00] <zeeshan> im just at the dye part..
[22:42:03] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the pores change size with the use of different acids
[22:42:07] <PetefromTn_> is there any other way I can know that the parts are finished?
[22:42:10] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes
[22:42:17] <zeeshan> but im saying, if i used aluiminujm oxide sand blasting
[22:42:26] <zeeshan> could i get the dye to hold
[22:42:33] <zeeshan> dip it in dye, then seal
[22:42:37] <XXCoder> zeeshan: same it for your PHD
[22:42:37] <zeeshan> it wont look as pretty
[22:42:40] <XXCoder> *save
[22:42:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the natural oxide layer is very thin
[22:43:14] <zeeshan> i wanna try it
[22:43:18] <zeeshan> just to see what happens..
[22:43:23] <zeeshan> cause i blasted some aluminum parts
[22:43:26] <CaptHindsight> if you used a focused ion beam to blast pores yes they could hold them but if they are hydrated then they won't hold them
[22:43:30] <zeeshan> and just touching them with oily hands
[22:43:31] <XXCoder> zeeshan: I woul guess it need very fine dust
[22:43:32] <zeeshan> its game over..
[22:43:41] <zeeshan> cause you get oilly prints all over em
[22:43:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: it won't seal
[22:43:53] <zeeshan> so the dye will just wash out
[22:44:08] <CaptHindsight> the last step hydrates the aluminum causing it to swell, that is what captures the dye
[22:44:27] <XXCoder> interesting
[22:44:39] <zeeshan> swell up?
[22:44:48] <zeeshan> what do you mean swell up
[22:44:53] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: it never "recovers" from swell up?
[22:44:54] <CaptHindsight> solvent or aqueous dye will just wipe off, you'd need a binder to make it stick
[22:45:22] <furrywolf> there's a product that's both dye and a binder available at most hardware stores... it goes under the name "paint" :)
[22:45:30] <zeeshan> rofl
[22:45:34] <CaptHindsight> the aluminum oxide layer is also translucent so the color of the dye comes through
[22:45:36] <XXCoder> heh
[22:45:57] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: yeah anodize is basically making colored sapphire "skin"
[22:46:07] <zeeshan> honestly, im just curious about the process
[22:46:11] <zeeshan> for me, i like powdercoating
[22:46:19] <zeeshan> dont have to deal with chemicals, and its stronger
[22:46:31] <zeeshan> like im not sure if you've guys worked with this type of fitting:
[22:46:41] <XXCoder> anodize has awesome colors though
[22:46:53] <zeeshan> http://www.reganrotaryracing.com/turbofit.jpg
[22:46:54] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: nah. melts right off
[22:47:10] <zeeshan> those scratch so easily
[22:47:12] <XXCoder> zeeshan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZhVOy-ytJY
[22:48:03] <CaptHindsight> http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-sealing-process-is-so-important.html
[22:48:06] <furrywolf> I don't much care for the colored anodizing look... I used one aluminum fitting on my subaru, and I got black painted. :)
[22:48:17] <zeeshan> lol
[22:48:24] <XXCoder> I do want to try anodizing alum but dunno lol
[22:48:27] <zeeshan> dude you really gotta use aluminum wrenches for those fittings
[22:48:30] <zeeshan> or they scratch up
[22:48:30] <XXCoder> I just want to get to machining stage first!
[22:48:36] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: you know you can get those ugly fittings in black, right? :P
[22:48:38] <zeeshan> i just use regular wrench with some tape
[22:48:43] <zeeshan> yea mine are black mostly
[22:48:57] <furrywolf> heh, I do have an albr adjustable wrench...
[22:49:00] <furrywolf> (aluminum bronze)
[22:49:11] <PetefromTn_> I want to offer the anodized parts because that is what most of my customers want
[22:49:30] <PetefromTn_> powder coat adds a good bit of thickness to parts and in some situations that can be a problem
[22:49:51] <PetefromTn_> so does anodizing but it is much less pronounced
[22:49:56] <zeeshan> its so strong though
[22:50:00] <zeeshan> have you seen how strong pc is?
[22:50:35] <XXCoder> that video I just linked to is awesome!
[22:50:55] <PetefromTn_> they both have thier place
[22:51:00] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: http://fw.bushytails.net/Subaru%20PS%2002.jpg
[22:51:01] <PetefromTn_> their
[22:51:05] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn8n2IrVyY4
[22:51:09] <zeeshan> go to like 3 min
[22:51:17] <zeeshan> these guys bend the damn metal
[22:51:23] <zeeshan> and the powdercoat doesnt crack
[22:51:40] <zeeshan> is that left fitting zinc plated?
[22:51:44] * zeeshan loves zinc plated fittings
[22:51:46] <furrywolf> yes
[22:51:48] <zeeshan> they are pretty
[22:52:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/H5jA7IE.jpg
[22:52:05] <zeeshan> you can see the fuel lines
[22:52:11] <furrywolf> steel fitting plus steel braided line = pressure, aluminum plus nylon braided = return. :)
[22:52:13] <zeeshan> going from zinc plated to those black jic fittings
[22:52:33] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/Subaru%20PS%2001.jpg you'll like that fitting too, then
[22:53:14] <zeeshan> i like
[22:53:17] <zeeshan> very nice
[22:53:20] <zeeshan> that fitting doesnt look cheap
[22:53:48] <zeeshan> is that -6 hose?
[22:53:51] <zeeshan> (to get an idea of scale
[22:53:56] <furrywolf> no, that was the most expensive one. I needed the extra length to clear the intake manifold. the long-90 is hard to find.
[22:53:57] <furrywolf> yep
[22:54:34] <zeeshan> sweet :D
[22:54:53] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: powder coatings are just micronized polymers with a Tg over 100 C
[22:55:06] <zeeshan> yep
[22:55:08] <zeeshan> and they kick ass!
[22:55:13] <zeeshan> i have that stuff on my chassis
[22:55:16] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: f-yeah
[22:55:18] <zeeshan> it still looks new
[22:55:21] <furrywolf> I need to flush the power steering system again... the gearbox I got had water in it, and I got most of it out with the first flush, but it still needs another one. my fluid is pink instead of red. and while I like pink, I don't like it in my atf. :P
[22:55:34] <XXCoder> lol
[22:55:49] <CaptHindsight> we should powder coat one of your cars
[22:55:54] <CaptHindsight> inside and out
[22:55:58] <zeeshan> $$$$$$
[22:56:02] <CaptHindsight> nah
[22:56:02] <PetefromTn_> not sure how I am going to determine when these are fully cooked now LOL
[22:56:04] <XXCoder> I love colors on this https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5781966/il_fullxfull.307150899.jpg
[22:56:12] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: when you hit 15V? :)
[22:56:13] <XXCoder> powder coat each part, including windows.
[22:56:23] <PetefromTn_> do you think so?
[22:56:33] <CaptHindsight> it's easy to make
[22:56:42] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: how long do you think it went untimed?
[22:56:43] <furrywolf> dunno, I'm not the expert. *pokes CaptHindsight*
[22:56:57] <PetefromTn_> not really sure maybe a half hour or so
[22:56:57] <CaptHindsight> you just mill the polymers down to size
[22:57:20] <PetefromTn_> gonna check it again here BRB
[22:57:44] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you should make a memory powder coat
[22:57:51] <zeeshan> rofl
[22:57:53] <zeeshan> that'd be cool
[22:58:03] <CaptHindsight> spray, heat and when it cools it's back to powder again
[22:58:07] <zeeshan> ROFL
[22:58:10] <zeeshan> the troll powder
[22:58:31] <XXCoder> make water dissolvable powder coat
[22:58:32] <zeeshan> dude im thinking of changing the permanent shape to a penis
[22:58:37] <XXCoder> bake it in, it stays firm till rain
[22:58:41] <furrywolf> I still think you should make car body panels that will un-accident themselves when the car is put in an oven. :)
[22:58:48] <zeeshan> then changing the temporary shape to a heart
[22:58:52] <zeeshan> and giving it to my gf
[22:58:52] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: thats doable
[22:58:53] <zeeshan> ROFL
[22:58:57] <furrywolf> lol
[22:59:03] <CaptHindsight> cellulose or PVA based
[22:59:05] <XXCoder> lol
[22:59:10] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: do it, do it! :P
[22:59:18] <CaptHindsight> comes off in the car wash
[22:59:43] <zeeshan> the smp doesnt have enough pull strength to reshape metal
[22:59:48] <XXCoder> though powder coating entire car (besides rubber parts and whatnot) sounds awesome
[22:59:54] <zeeshan> but my colleagues are using it on a polymer - shape memory polymer laminate
[23:00:01] <XXCoder> completely immune to corrison, assuming no straches and such
[23:00:09] <CaptHindsight> thinking about it, maybe sugar based
[23:00:11] <zeeshan> and theyve had success in the smp restoring the base polymer that was dented, back to its original shape
[23:00:14] <CaptHindsight> would be glossy
[23:00:29] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: would be great for short term fun designs on car
[23:00:40] <XXCoder> spray it on, looks glossy then it fades in water
[23:01:02] <CaptHindsight> real candy coat
[23:01:08] <XXCoder> indeed
[23:01:31] <CaptHindsight> glossy latex would also work
[23:01:51] <CaptHindsight> with a loose structure
[23:01:59] <XXCoder> zeeshan: this looks like parts you was making lol http://www.southerncarparts.com/images/Camaro%20Parts/Camaro-Burnt-Orange-Aluminum-Racing-Pedals-Grid-Finish.jpg
[23:02:00] <furrywolf> on a related topic, that "temporary" white paint they sell for making For Sale vehicles? DOES NOT COME OFF EASILY.
[23:02:08] <zeeshan> those look nice
[23:02:15] <XXCoder> furrywolf: lol
[23:02:25] <CaptHindsight> how about thermite powder coat?
[23:02:28] <zeeshan> rofl
[23:02:31] <PetefromTn_> Okay just checked it again.... still sitting at 21.0mv, voltage increased to 11v
[23:02:36] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: lol
[23:02:40] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: you're getting success!!!!!!!!!
[23:02:49] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: only if you're making an airship.
[23:02:53] <PetefromTn_> we'll see
[23:02:55] <zeeshan> doesnt you wish you had better eyes?
[23:02:58] <zeeshan> so you could see the atoms
[23:03:01] <XXCoder> oh the humanity!
[23:03:07] <zeeshan> you'd know whats going on :P
[23:03:29] <furrywolf> I don't think even superman has electron microscope vision...
[23:03:30] <PetefromTn_> it seems like the current output is VERY stable in the power supply so that is good
[23:03:48] <PetefromTn_> at least according to my home built ammeter ;
[23:03:51] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[23:04:03] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: yeah just weirdly broken display
[23:04:08] <zeeshan> youre using a current shunt?
[23:04:09] <zeeshan> lol
[23:04:15] <XXCoder> maybe check some stuff if something burnt
[23:04:15] <zeeshan> nice
[23:04:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is what I had
[23:04:36] <zeeshan> ok its bed time
[23:04:37] <zeeshan> cu
[23:04:40] <zeeshan> post pics
[23:04:41] <PetefromTn_> cu
[23:04:44] <zeeshan> so i can see in the morning
[23:04:46] <zeeshan> i want success
[23:04:46] <zeeshan> !
[23:04:55] <PetefromTn_> don't hold your breath
[23:05:01] <zeeshan> youre gonna do it
[23:05:02] <furrywolf> zee going to bed at a reasonable hour? impossible!
[23:05:06] <zeeshan> just think about it PetefromTn_
[23:05:16] <zeeshan> you're growing hexagno crystals
[23:05:19] <zeeshan> with pores
[23:05:23] <zeeshan> what could go wrong :D
[23:05:30] <PetefromTn_> apparently quite a lot
[23:05:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: yea im toast :P
[23:05:56] <XXCoder> hopefully not literally heh
[23:08:47] <furrywolf> on a sleeping-related topic, anyone own a rooftent? how do they work?
[23:09:07] <XXCoder> I only own the dome one
[23:09:16] <furrywolf> a rooftent?
[23:09:48] <XXCoder> http://www.rooftent.co.uk/images/hannibal/tourer-open-1lrg.JPG ?
[23:09:51] <XXCoder> never saw it before
[23:10:09] <furrywolf> yes
[23:10:15] <furrywolf> and I'll that that as a no. :)
[23:10:20] <XXCoder> yea lol
[23:10:53] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: was it you who rebuilt cninese router and anodized it
[23:11:01] <XXCoder> I remember someone who did it, looked awesome.
[23:11:07] <furrywolf> http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/attachments/f7/4654d1202066131-roof-tent-dsc00181.jpg
[23:11:32] <XXCoder> that looks weird
[23:11:36] <furrywolf> they have a framework, and fold up into a little streamlined hard-sided pot.
[23:11:37] <furrywolf> pod
[23:11:48] <furrywolf> then you just flip them open and have a tent
[23:11:52] <XXCoder> if rooftent is rocking don't come knockin'
[23:12:17] <furrywolf> http://www.expedition-equipment.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Eezi_Awn_Series__4e00b7f0766d5.jpg
[23:13:31] <furrywolf> http://www.autohome-official.com/images/slides/maggiolina-air-top/03.jpg nice and aerodynamic
[23:14:25] <furrywolf> I'm thinking if I can't work, I might try taking an brief vacation... but since I can't hike, I'll be car camping... and since I can't drive my truck right now (my truck takes a fully functional back and legs to operate, and I have neither), it'd have to be in the car...
[23:14:33] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQmzxN15ga8
[23:15:02] <XXCoder> fur if I went camping I would just sleep in back of my van
[23:15:05] <XXCoder> pretty good room
[23:15:19] <furrywolf> I used to sleep in the back of my truck, but I can't drive it.
[23:15:44] <furrywolf> I have the proverbial "armstrong" steering, and no power brakes...
[23:15:55] <XXCoder> drat
[23:17:44] <furrywolf> http://www.autohome-official.com/en/video/airtop-roof-top-tent-tech-tv that model is even simpler, doesn't have to unfold
[23:18:00] <furrywolf> probably too long for a car roof, though. lol
[23:18:01] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I remember this easy to use tow camp
[23:18:13] <XXCoder> just rise roof and lock, pop out sides and there it is
[23:18:47] <XXCoder> friend of mine that was in very bad way lived in my home lot that way for couple months before she recovered and moved on
[23:18:52] <XXCoder> she got it for $100
[23:18:56] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Hey man how long would you say I need to keep the parts submerged in the dye?
[23:19:10] <furrywolf> until they're done. :)
[23:20:03] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: long enough to cover them, it happens pretty fast, it flows right in
[23:20:20] <XXCoder> I guess theres lower limit on time but no upper limit
[23:20:31] <XXCoder> once its done it just stays till youre ready
[23:20:38] <XXCoder> dunno tough
[23:24:05] <CaptHindsight> you can spray, brush, splash etc it on
[23:25:08] <furrywolf> http://www.gordigear.com/roof_tents/roof_tents.php?l=en watch the first 30 seconds of the first video. soooo easy to set up...
[23:27:07] <PetefromTn_> Okay
[23:27:12] <PetefromTn_> just pulled the parts out,
[23:27:22] <PetefromTn_> sprayed them down with DI water bottle
[23:27:43] <PetefromTn_> soaking them in a tray of clean DI water right now
[23:27:48] <CaptHindsight> let them dry
[23:27:57] <CaptHindsight> maybe even use a hair dryer
[23:27:59] <PetefromTn_> now I will pull them out and let em dry
[23:28:10] <PetefromTn_> Okay I have one here
[23:28:57] <CaptHindsight> the solvent dye won't mix with water, it will separate
[23:29:32] <CaptHindsight> that is another way to get color effects
[23:29:51] <CaptHindsight> mix the solvent dye with water bath
[23:30:10] <CaptHindsight> the solvent dye will float on top of the water until agitated
[23:30:35] <XXCoder> interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0GQPHh3Szk
[23:30:37] <XXCoder> look at end
[23:30:41] <XXCoder> it seals pores
[23:30:49] <CaptHindsight> if you get a froth going it will leave color patterns of both the water and solvent dye
[23:32:04] <CaptHindsight> poor seals
[23:32:28] <jt-alyeska> Hey
[23:33:10] <XXCoder> hey
[23:33:12] <XXCoder> wha
[23:33:15] <XXCoder> whatever
[23:37:14] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: how goes it
[23:43:35] <furrywolf> wtf? the AUD is now >> USD? stupid economy.
[23:44:23] <PetefromTn_> Okay I just pulled the parts out of the anodizing tank
[23:44:47] <PetefromTn_> rinsed them off really really good with DI water and soaked them for maybe ten minutes in the water
[23:45:01] <PetefromTn_> then I dried them completely using a fan and a hair dryer
[23:45:15] <PetefromTn_> let them sit hanging in the fan breeze for another ten minutes or so
[23:45:24] <PetefromTn_> they looked really nice and good and dry
[23:45:32] <PetefromTn_> then I dipped them into the dye
[23:45:40] <PetefromTn_> let them sit in the dye for a couple minutes each
[23:45:50] <PetefromTn_> then hung them back up to air dry
[23:46:11] <PetefromTn_> got the sealer bath cooking and ready
[23:46:27] <PetefromTn_> once they are fully dry I will immerse them in the sealer bath for 15 minutes
[23:46:36] <XXCoder> cool
[23:46:36] <PetefromTn_> then we will see what we have here
[23:46:42] <XXCoder> hopefully it will look good.
[23:46:49] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know right
[23:46:54] <PetefromTn_> it sure would be damn nice
[23:47:15] <XXCoder> man I want my cnc router working NOW
[23:47:52] <XXCoder> evenually will need to buy ER11 holders so I can use vareity of tools
[23:48:12] <furrywolf> yay, the neighbors up the road are having yet another loud domestic dispute.
[23:48:33] <furrywolf> er...11? minimill?
[23:48:33] <XXCoder> get a LOUD repeator
[23:48:42] <XXCoder> return what they said to em
[23:48:53] <XXCoder> checking a sec
[23:49:54] <XXCoder> "Max Ourte-dia:25mm"
[23:49:56] <furrywolf> er11 is good to, what, 1/4"? heh
[23:50:02] <XXCoder> "Collect chunk diameter: 6mm"
[23:50:16] <furrywolf> yeah, 6mm is even smaller than 1/4". lol
[23:50:20] <furrywolf> (by a hair)
[23:50:26] <XXCoder> yea but same time my router is tiny and riciously fast spindle
[23:50:34] <XXCoder> 27000 rpm
[23:50:42] <furrywolf> ah
[23:50:43] <XXCoder> great for wood and some alum
[23:50:55] <furrywolf> I'm planning on collets up to 3/4" for my mill...
[23:51:18] <XXCoder> in future, probably far future, I want to get cnc router with 4 feet by 8 feet workspace
[23:51:27] <XXCoder> so I can make stuff out of whole sheet
[23:52:29] <furrywolf> I want to build a combined router/plasma table. just put a sheet of MDF over the slatted plasma bed and swap heads...
[23:52:32] <XXCoder> this spindle http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6759651360.html?orderId=68075122285562
[23:52:42] <XXCoder> thats pretty great idea
[23:52:45] <XXCoder> save lot space
[23:53:04] <XXCoder> maybe make it has removable supports for that mdf bed
[23:53:13] <furrywolf> or hell, have both heads on, and just make sure you flip the right switch. :)
[23:53:20] <XXCoder> lol
[23:53:24] <XXCoder> torch the wood
[23:53:37] <furrywolf> have one on either side of the gantry, so it balances nicely.
[23:53:48] <XXCoder> less Y space though
[23:54:19] <XXCoder> know what would be brilliant? make it automically swap plasma/spindle
[23:54:27] <furrywolf> you're in 220V land?
[23:54:40] <XXCoder> furrywolf: nah but I alsobought an adoptor
[23:55:45] <furrywolf> http://www.rooftent.co.uk/images/hannibal/Rooftentopensequence1.gif
[23:56:15] <XXCoder> pretty strightforward
[23:57:23] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Step-Up-Voltage-Converter-Adapter-110V-US-to-220V-US-EU-Black/1910410399.html
[23:57:30] <XXCoder> it was pretty cheap so yeah
[23:57:58] <XXCoder> weirdly picture says eu/us to us
[23:58:08] <XXCoder> but rest of page saus us to eu/usa
[23:58:11] <furrywolf> that is not running that.
[23:58:11] <XXCoder> okkay lol
[23:58:57] <XXCoder> ?
[23:59:30] <furrywolf> you are not running a 500W spindle off a 40W adapter.