#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-09

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[00:04:35] <furrywolf> I need to do a lot of work to my machine before it's at the probe-needing stage.
[00:06:32] <pcb_maker> furrywolf: I've done withe the core of the probe and now i just need to make the housing anf the holder.
[00:07:32] <furrywolf> I need to finish building my electronics enclosure and rewiring everything, buy parts I can't afford, buy tooling I can't afford,...
[00:08:05] <pcb_maker> I have a tooo much electronics
[00:08:17] <os1r1s> I am debating on swapping to servos instead of my steppers
[00:08:37] <os1r1s> That is my present dilemna
[00:08:41] <pcb_maker> I have the G320X - no like tham at all
[00:08:47] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: No?
[00:08:48] <furrywolf> servos are better, but a lot more money.
[00:08:51] <os1r1s> How come?
[00:09:12] <pcb_maker> but I'm using Nema 34 servos
[00:09:12] <renesis> pcb_maker: 10krpm
[00:09:16] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Why don't you like the 320x that is
[00:09:34] <pcb_maker> the motors get hot,
[00:09:36] <renesis> the pyramids last a bit more than the half rounds
[00:09:53] <pcb_maker> and it is 40A 80V motors
[00:10:01] <renesis> i used the 30 degree .005 tips, the pyramids and half rounds
[00:10:04] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: what mill?
[00:10:04] <furrywolf> steppers are supposed to be hot
[00:10:11] <pcb_maker> and the G320x also get hot some times
[00:10:27] <renesis> i wouldnt make sense if they didnt get hot
[00:10:32] <pcb_maker> and the terminal blocks on the G320x is junk!
[00:10:39] <renesis> rly?
[00:10:43] <furrywolf> servos, too...
[00:10:53] <furrywolf> if your motors aren't hot, you're not getting full performance out of them. :)
[00:11:56] <furrywolf> usually I only hear good things about gecko....
[00:12:07] <pcb_maker> I was have to solder wire because I have periodic power failures
[00:12:18] <furrywolf> I have centent drives (same person as gecko, just older) and they seem to work acceptably too.
[00:12:38] <pcb_maker> the terminals block basiclly is phinix contact, but that rates to max 12 of 15 A
[00:12:52] <pcb_maker> my is V11 the newest
[00:13:11] <renesis> prob fine, honestly
[00:13:25] <furrywolf> no, they're not fine, since she already stated they fail.
[00:13:51] <pcb_maker> but the G320X push 20A to the motor, so after a while is make problems with the connectors,
[00:14:06] <furrywolf> ouch, bs atelier changes 25 euro shipping.
[00:14:15] * furrywolf checks what a euro is worth these days
[00:14:29] <renesis> pcb_maker: what are you using for terminals?
[00:15:23] <pcb_maker> Solder wires that go to a din rail terminal block and from them to the rest of the panel.
[00:15:33] <os1r1s> furrywolf: If airfare wasn't so high, it would be a good time to fly over
[00:15:50] <renesis> solder wires into the terminal blocks?
[00:15:52] <furrywolf> why's that? I mean, shopping for toys in person is fun, but... :P
[00:16:08] <renesis> or soldered wires onto the pads for the terminal blocks?
[00:16:39] <renesis> i meant what were you using when the terminal blocks failed
[00:16:41] <pcb_maker> the green terminal block on the G320x is just press fit (very loose fit)
[00:17:00] <renesis> oh theyre screw clamp terminals?
[00:17:15] <renesis> yeah those are a bit sketchy
[00:17:42] <pcb_maker> so you tae it out and you will get pins that come out from the pcb, just solter to those pins (don't take tham off or something like that,)
[00:17:51] <renesis> i thought they were screw terminals, like for rings and spades
[00:18:20] <renesis> pcb_maker: consider hot glue for strain relief
[00:19:17] <pcb_maker> renesis: the copper contact inside the terminal blocks just junk.
[00:19:19] <renesis> soldered wire breaks way easy compared to crimps, the solder wicks up the wire and creates a localized bend point
[00:19:55] <pcb_maker> renesis: but you cant crimp the pcb.
[00:20:04] <renesis> pcb_maker: phoenix isnt junk, but that type of connection can get loose with twisted or tinned wire, and it gets resistive
[00:20:23] <renesis> it would happen with any brand, theyre usually used for signal level stuff
[00:20:48] <renesis> pcb_maker: i know, thats why im suggesting hot glue over the solder joints and a bit up the wire
[00:21:28] <renesis> if youre going into DIN rail terminal blocks, its prob not an issue as the wires should be mostly stationary
[00:21:29] <pcb_maker> you dont neet it,
[00:21:41] <pcb_maker> just put a heat shrink tubing.
[00:22:04] <pcb_maker> renesis: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/G320X-pieces-1024x1024.jpg
[00:22:08] <renesis> that can work okay but if doesnt fix the whole thing to the pcb
[00:22:19] <renesis> hot glue is pro mass production shit =)
[00:22:21] <furrywolf> if they put 12A connectors on a 20A controller...
[00:22:48] <pcb_maker> look, you see that you have the pins on the pcb, you just solder the tires to the pins, and put heat shrink on it.
[00:22:51] <renesis> if they were screw down terminals it dont think it would be too much of a problem
[00:23:19] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i built my water 1000gallon water tower
[00:23:22] <zeeshan> for solar panels
[00:23:22] <renesis> the clamps i wouldnt trust
[00:23:23] <pcb_maker> s is not the major problem with them.
[00:23:57] <renesis> pcb_maker: youre not going to convince me heat shrink is better than hot glue
[00:24:19] <pcb_maker> the motors and the drivers get hot without any reasonable reason
[00:24:35] <renesis> are they stepper?
[00:24:47] <pcb_maker> servo
[00:24:58] <furrywolf> she already told you what controller it was, and it's servos.
[00:25:20] <renesis> yeah i didnt look it up because im not too invested in the convo, honestly
[00:25:27] <pcw_home> You can normally get away with low rated motor connectors on a servo drive since its only at full current for a few % duty cycle
[00:25:31] <pcb_maker> I Dont like hot glue on 1000$+ panel..
[00:25:41] <zeeshan> lol @ hotglue
[00:25:43] <renesis> i thought screw down terminals were failing, which surprised me, but clamp terminials dont, shrug
[00:25:49] <zeeshan> ive never seen hot glue used in an industrial control!
[00:25:51] <pcb_maker> almost 2K$
[00:26:14] <pcw_home> if the motors get hot when idle its broken/not tuned right
[00:26:24] <renesis> zeeshan: well you dont see underrated connectors and wire to board with no strain relief either
[00:26:33] <zeeshan> ofcourse
[00:26:38] <zeeshan> strain relief is mandatory
[00:26:44] <renesis> this is prototype level stuff, and hot glue is awesome for prototypes
[00:26:59] * zeeshan is a din rail whore
[00:26:59] <renesis> china has this yellow glue they use a lot, works too
[00:27:13] * zeeshan loves zip tie mounts
[00:27:22] <pcb_maker> I have too much wires and sensors here, I need to finish the stuff.
[00:27:30] <zeeshan> pcb_maker: whatcha makin
[00:27:35] <renesis> arguably active subwoofers are harder on connections than industrial control cabinets
[00:27:52] <pcb_maker> zeeshan: what?
[00:28:00] <zeeshan> what are you making that has too many wires and sensors
[00:28:09] <renesis> hot glue for wire to board works awesome, if you can ziptie to something it only helps
[00:28:29] <pcb_maker> WIre duct, and din rails,
[00:28:45] <pcb_maker> the panel cabinet is 4 feet hight,
[00:29:04] <pcb_maker> and I'm start to think that is to small.
[00:29:07] <furrywolf> heh, mine is about 21" square and 5" deep.
[00:29:16] <zeeshan> cabinet for what?
[00:29:18] <furrywolf> but, I suspect I have a much simpler, crappier machine.
[00:29:52] <pcb_maker> electronics. controls, sensors, hmi, drivers psu..
[00:30:03] <zeeshan> ah
[00:30:09] <zeeshan> when i did panels at eaton
[00:30:13] <zeeshan> i used this stuff
[00:30:17] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zps99c3b1cb.jpg
[00:30:20] <zeeshan> the white board
[00:30:27] <zeeshan> with holes spaced evenly
[00:30:33] <zeeshan> worked great for wire routing
[00:30:53] <zeeshan> i wanted to work on a mcc unit so bad
[00:30:57] <zeeshan> but never got an opportunity
[00:31:08] <pcb_maker> I have about 30 cable glands..
[00:31:26] <renesis> ha cool
[00:31:39] <zeeshan> that isn't a lot! :P
[00:33:06] <pcb_maker> 1 main power 1 spindle 3 motor 3 encoders, 8 sensors (spindle temp, motors temp,) limits, and more that i dont remember
[00:33:19] <pcb_maker> stack light.
[00:33:26] <zeeshan> you really need a 4 ft tall cabinet for what?
[00:33:29] <zeeshan> *for that?
[00:33:31] <zeeshan> how wide is it?
[00:33:42] <pcb_maker> led light for the spindle.
[00:33:49] <pcb_maker> 2 feet
[00:33:55] <zeeshan> damn thats a lotta space
[00:33:57] <pcb_maker> and one foot deep
[00:34:17] <zeeshan> i guess thats about the same as mine
[00:34:24] <zeeshan> but mine is 10" deep
[00:34:35] <pcb_maker> I can go and mesure
[00:34:41] <zeeshan> you got a buncha fuse holders for distribution?
[00:34:50] <pcb_maker> 10 in
[00:35:06] * zeeshan looks at old pics
[00:35:08] <furrywolf> heh, mine is 20x20x5 inches... five stepper drives, power supplies, chinese canon-like connectors for the motors, molex for the limit switches,...
[00:35:09] <pcb_maker> no fuse al all
[00:35:35] <pcb_maker> becase fuse is not smart sysem.
[00:35:50] <zeeshan> smart as in how?
[00:35:54] <furrywolf> house fires are not smart. :)
[00:36:00] <renesis> furrywolf: i hope you just mean pin config and locking bits
[00:36:29] * renesis so much hate for canon style plugs
[00:36:31] <furrywolf> ?
[00:36:39] <pcb_maker> if you burn a fuse it will protect the single motor or driver but all the other will crash,
[00:37:06] <zeeshan> crash?
[00:37:11] <renesis> i dont like the strain relief and assembly on the canon/switchcraft style xlr
[00:37:11] <furrywolf> if you burn a fuse, something has SHORTED YOUR POWER SUPPLY. if it crashes that's much better than the alternative. :)
[00:37:30] <furrywolf> renesis: these are some chinese knockoff military connectors. they seem decent, but aren't waterproof.
[00:37:47] <zeeshan> in a servo system you have feedback
[00:37:53] <renesis> yeah circular connectors are usually good stuff
[00:37:55] <zeeshan> if a drive power gets killed and the system is commanding a signal still
[00:37:58] <zeeshan> you'll ferror.
[00:37:59] <pcb_maker> if one motor is over power,
[00:38:24] <pcb_maker> it wil pop the fuse but only the fuse that go to his axis.
[00:38:40] <renesis> canon xlr strain relief is basically a set screw into a plastic tube pinching the cable, and the boots always tear off
[00:38:47] <zeeshan> the fuse is there to protect the power distribution
[00:38:50] <zeeshan> not protect the motor
[00:38:52] <furrywolf> renesis: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Military-Gold-4-Pin-Twist-Male-Female-Connector-4PM-/181594058229 those
[00:38:54] <renesis> and i just dont like backing out the set screw to hold them together
[00:38:59] <pcb_maker> now you have a machine that runing but one axis not move.
[00:39:03] <zeeshan> that's the job of a thermal monitoring system of the servo driver
[00:39:22] <renesis> yeah those look neat
[00:39:32] <zeeshan> fuses are an absolute must
[00:39:39] <zeeshan> look @ any cnc controller from factory
[00:39:48] <zeeshan> they have some sort of fuse protection for each branch circuit
[00:39:55] <zeeshan> actually you dont even have to look at a cnc
[00:39:57] <zeeshan> look at a car
[00:40:00] <zeeshan> each circuit is fused
[00:40:11] <pcb_maker> you never use blow fuse with cnc machine!
[00:40:22] <furrywolf> pcb_maker: I'm wiring my drive's error outputs so linucnc can read them... if the drive faults (overheat, short detected, etc) or loses power (which pulls the active-low error line low), it'll stop.
[00:40:28] <zeeshan> if you have money you can use circuit breakers
[00:40:38] <pcb_maker> you can use brackers, or overloads,
[00:40:40] <furrywolf> pcb_maker: you always use fuses with cnc machine.
[00:40:52] <zeeshan> breakers are fine
[00:41:02] <zeeshan> most high end machines come with breakers
[00:41:05] <zeeshan> usualyl the fuses are on the mains only
[00:41:06] <furrywolf> fuses are to prevent things from catching fire, or becoming very expensive.
[00:41:30] <furrywolf> even if your machine does somehow keep running, a broken endmill and scrapped part is usually a lot cheaper than a melted wiring harness and fried power supply...
[00:41:30] <zeeshan> if a fuse or breaker is going, a significant fault has happened and must be investigated :P
[00:41:37] <pcb_maker> I have breaker with trip coils that shut down the hole system with 2 stage emergency stop loops.
[00:42:09] <zeeshan> pcb_maker: here's my baby
[00:42:25] <zeeshan> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7505/16251023906_a5b138dae1_h.jpg
[00:42:39] <zeeshan> its 4ft by 2 ft by 10"
[00:42:42] <zeeshan> i packed it pretty well :D
[00:42:55] <pcb_maker> also over currnt and over heating on almost any part that trigger the shout down system
[00:43:03] <furrywolf> my 20x20x5" box is going to be pretty tightly packed. :)
[00:43:26] <zeeshan> the one thing i dont like about my setup
[00:43:28] <renesis> pcb_maker: triggers how?
[00:43:32] <zeeshan> is i wish i went with a better motherboard from the get go
[00:43:38] <renesis> you have isolated circuits or by the pc?
[00:43:39] <zeeshan> not used an old pos
[00:43:57] <pcb_maker> cut a the self hold of the main contactor,
[00:44:15] <pcb_maker> look amaziiing!
[00:44:17] <furrywolf> renesis: on mine, the drives have an active-low fault output. if they detect any fault, it goes low. if you wire these up to an input pin, linuxcnc can treat it as an e-stop...
[00:44:20] <zeeshan> thank you!
[00:44:37] <zeeshan> furrywolf: stepper drivers?
[00:44:44] <pcb_maker> but why you dont use wire duct???
[00:45:01] <furrywolf> yes
[00:45:06] <zeeshan> pcb_maker: honestly, i feel like wire duct takes a lot of unncessary space
[00:45:17] <zeeshan> i used it a lot on work enclosures
[00:45:32] <pcb_maker> true!
[00:45:32] <zeeshan> i just relied on zip tie mounts
[00:45:41] <pcb_maker> but it;s look amaziiing!
[00:45:41] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that is nice
[00:46:19] <zeeshan> i have a fault output from the servo drive
[00:46:22] <zeeshan> but i never hooked it up
[00:46:26] <zeeshan> cause it'll just ferror
[00:46:29] <pcb_maker> my is now in parts all over the place. I'm re build the stuff with cnc parts,
[00:46:32] <zeeshan> cause any fault mode puts the drive in limp mode
[00:46:41] <zeeshan> pcb_maker: is this for a cnc mill?
[00:46:51] <pcb_maker> yes
[00:46:54] <zeeshan> very cool
[00:47:01] <furrywolf> zeeshan: when you're running open-loop, ferror occurs shortly after you run over to it and hit the mushroom switch. :P
[00:47:14] <zeeshan> hehe
[00:49:10] <pcb_maker> and everything design in solidworks!
[00:49:23] <furrywolf> speaking of which, I've been trying to break my $2 chinese mushroom switch, and so far it has not.
[00:49:25] <zeeshan> you're just like me :D
[00:49:31] <zeeshan> plan plan plan, model model model, build build build
[00:49:42] <furrywolf> I have it sitting on my desk, and every once in a while I randomly smash it with a fist.
[00:49:49] <zeeshan> furrywolf: it's pretty hard to screw up a switch!
[00:49:56] <zeeshan> rofl
[00:50:07] <furrywolf> zeeshan: ... you've used chinese products, right? they can screw up anything. :P
[00:50:16] <renesis> srsly
[00:50:18] <zeeshan> lol
[00:50:50] <zeeshan> the only thing i think i've purchased that was chinese and didn't work as advertised
[00:50:52] <pcb_maker> furrywolf: I dont use chinese stuff for safty,
[00:50:53] <zeeshan> is a dial indicator
[00:51:05] <zeeshan> ive bought chinese parallels, 123 blocks
[00:51:08] <zeeshan> theyre all really well made
[00:52:07] <pcb_maker> go with ABB or siemens
[00:52:16] <zeeshan> EATON!!!
[00:52:16] <zeeshan> :D
[00:52:59] <furrywolf> right now, I'm going to go with sleep. :)
[00:52:59] <furrywolf> bbl, way past wolfy bedtime.
[00:53:38] <pcb_maker> it is just 1:30AM fo me :)
[00:54:09] <zeeshan> its time to put on a movie and go to sleep!
[00:54:11] <zeeshan> cu
[00:54:14] * furrywolf sends pcb_maker off to bed!
[00:54:22] <pcb_maker> no!
[00:55:00] <pcb_maker> I'm design a holder for HF drills
[00:55:21] <furrywolf> doing work while tired results in doing work twice.
[00:56:42] <pcb_maker> http://www.harborfreight.com/13-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-drill-bits-1800.html
[00:56:47] <pcb_maker> this is the set,
[00:56:59] <pcb_maker> so i want to make 13 hex holes..
[00:57:04] <furrywolf> HF's cheap drill bits are the worst drill bits I've ever used.
[00:57:12] <furrywolf> I've had them fail to last one hole.
[00:57:37] <pcb_maker> I'm using it with ma gyro B&D
[00:57:51] <roycroft> i bought a set of TiN number drills from harbor freight once
[00:58:10] <roycroft> i've been replacing them with real drills from enco whenever i use one
[00:58:11] <furrywolf> I got a 10-pack of 1/8" bits once where they used the worst steel they could find... they were so soft that as soon as you pressed down on them, the instantly BENT 90 DEGREES and the chuck and sat there spinning sideways.
[00:58:52] <pcb_maker> I work slow and hope for good..
[00:59:17] <furrywolf> the best price-performance I've found for drill bits are the Dewalt gold pilot point bits.
[00:59:28] <pcb_maker> try not to brake any nails.
[00:59:48] <pcb_maker> dills I dont care.
[01:00:23] <pcb_maker> http://www.greatlakespowertools.com/DeWALT-DW1925B-25-64-in-Gold-Ferrous-Oxide-Pilot-p/DW-DW1925B.htm?gclid=CPS79bOqzcYCFQ2QHwodRm8Ntw
[01:00:29] <pcb_maker> 40$ for a drill!!!
[01:00:34] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Dewalt-Ferrous-Pilot-Point-Drill/dp/B003XX9YNK those actually work really well
[01:00:35] <pcb_maker> what?!
[01:01:10] <pcb_maker> I like to drill with the collet,
[01:01:12] <furrywolf> they are, by far, the best of the inexpensive drill bit sets I've used.
[01:01:24] <roycroft> that's for six of them, pcb_maker
[01:01:35] <roycroft> and i've spent way over $40 on a drill before
[01:01:40] <pcb_maker> work muchmuch better than the drill chuck
[01:01:42] <roycroft> i've spent over $140
[01:01:52] <roycroft> probably over $240
[01:02:01] <furrywolf> most expensive bit I've bought was a unibit at $30...
[01:02:11] <pcb_maker> roycroft: for one normal size drill?
[01:02:13] <roycroft> i used to drill a lot of holes in concrete
[01:02:35] <roycroft> there are special carbide-tipped drills for cutting the rebar you run into in the concrete
[01:02:39] <roycroft> and they are very expensive
[01:03:12] <roycroft> <1" in diameter, pcb_maker
[01:03:12] <pcb_maker> this is other story..
[01:03:16] <furrywolf> heh, one of the local hardware stores here closed out their section of large hammer bits... the ones with the big-size splined shaft. $200 bits for $10. I was tempted to buy the whole tub of them and ebay them, but I was short on cash...
[01:03:37] <pcb_maker> buy for fun stuff at home i will fo with the HF drlls.
[01:03:52] <furrywolf> pcb_maker: you won't have any fun when you actually try using them.
[01:04:16] <roycroft> so you like paying good money for a lot of frustration?
[01:04:24] <furrywolf> I have used those very same hf hex shank bits. they suck.
[01:04:43] <furrywolf> it's kinda like using a drill bit made of cheese.
[01:04:44] <pcb_maker> I sont use tham fo havy stuff just for small stuff.
[01:04:51] <roycroft> if you like tossing money at frustration opportunities get married
[01:05:00] <roycroft> at least you get to have a little fun once in a while when you're married
[01:05:01] <furrywolf> "heavy stuff" includes anything not made of styrofoam.
[01:05:21] <roycroft> now don't exaggerate, furrywolf
[01:05:25] <pcb_maker> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008R5259Y/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=40115349487&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3000600794451610560&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6vfdlp9qk0_b
[01:05:29] <roycroft> they probably work fine in balsa wood for a few holes
[01:05:35] <furrywolf> roycroft: thanks to a recent supreme court decision, I'm reconsidering marriage... the hard part is finding the right woman. :P
[01:06:26] <pcb_maker> I've drll with tham OSB and alminum.
[01:06:30] <pcb_maker> work nice.
[01:07:11] <pcb_maker> I'm using the punch for centering,
[01:07:20] <pcb_maker> and it go nice.
[01:08:10] <renesis> furrywolf: you can buy one from russia or thailand!
[01:08:11] <furrywolf> I'd ask pcb_maker if she's single, but I'm not sure I could marry someone who uses that many harborfreight tools. :P
[01:08:14] <furrywolf> bbl, off to bed.
[01:08:24] <renesis> you said that a long time ago
[01:09:16] <pcb_maker> my husband give me the cnc machine.. so i can't leave him
[01:09:22] <furrywolf> lol
[01:10:16] <pcb_maker> He make a pocket hole inside my heart and take his place with large amount of jb weld
[01:10:41] <furrywolf> ...
[01:11:04] <pcb_maker> we are stick together
[01:12:07] <pcb_maker> I', still wating for the correct stock materials,
[01:12:56] <pcb_maker> nice bar of gold.
[01:13:00] <furrywolf> lol
[01:13:49] <pcb_maker> I hope I'm not the only woman here..
[01:14:14] <roycroft> you are not
[01:14:30] <pcb_maker> roycroft: you also woman!
[01:14:32] <pcb_maker> cool!
[01:14:36] <roycroft> no, i am not
[01:14:38] <pcb_maker> woman power!
[01:14:44] <roycroft> but i know of at least one other woman here
[01:14:44] <pcb_maker> mmmm
[01:14:51] <pcb_maker> who?
[01:14:59] <roycroft> leeloominai
[01:15:42] <pcb_maker> she has also a milling machine?
[01:15:45] <pcb_maker> vmc?
[01:15:51] <roycroft> she's building a cnc machine
[01:16:15] <roycroft> or maybe she's done building it - i haven't heard her talk about it in a while
[01:16:26] <roycroft> but i'm generally not around when she is these days
[01:16:33] * furrywolf has a crappy shoptask machine
[01:16:33] <pcb_maker> cool!
[01:16:35] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep!
[01:16:56] * roycroft is going to bed too - he has to get up early tomorrow to head back to the country fair
[01:17:48] <pcb_maker> I'm stay here.
[01:18:48] * furrywolf has a very hard time finding a mature, intelligent, sane, practical woman who's good with a strapon
[01:20:32] <jfindley> pcb_maker: Do you make PCBs? =)
[01:21:10] <pcb_maker> make..
[01:21:16] <pcb_maker> try to make.
[01:21:51] <jfindley> Do you often employ connectors of various forms?
[01:21:56] <pcb_maker> or you mean if the cnc is runing noew?
[01:22:20] <pcb_maker> I'm only use terminal blocks.
[01:22:49] <jfindley> Nah, I'm trying to get the hang of eagle while simultaneously upping my EE game. Connectors are something I haven't made much use of, but I want to start.
[01:23:17] <pcb_maker> I have an history of 3 PCBs.. (the probe is 4)
[01:23:38] <jfindley> You mean you've designed 3?
[01:23:46] <pcb_maker> yes,
[01:23:53] <pcb_maker> but with solidworks,
[01:24:03] <pcb_maker> sloow but nice.
[01:24:28] <jfindley> interesting. What do they do?
[01:24:33] <pcb_maker> http://i.imgur.com/PnBHcOn.jpg
[01:24:50] <pcb_maker> this is soething that I make
[01:25:03] <jfindley> hahaha! that's crazy
[01:25:03] <pcb_maker> something*
[01:25:17] <jfindley> why solidworks?
[01:25:27] <pcb_maker> few houers..
[01:25:32] <furrywolf> you and zeeshan are going to get along great.
[01:26:16] <pcb_maker> furrywolf: ewhat do you mean?
[01:26:34] <furrywolf> he makes unneccesary solidworks models like that of everything, too.
[01:26:45] <pcb_maker> and solidworks - becaus dont know enything else
[01:27:15] <pcb_maker> furrywolf: I have the whole machine + electrical panel + some wires
[01:27:29] <jfindley> it might be worth trying that in Fritzing... Free, open source, easy to use, exports to a few different standard formats, etc.
[01:27:58] <pcb_maker> jfindley: did you see the leds?
[01:28:08] <pcb_maker> thay soo cute..
[01:28:48] <jfindley> I just see the bottom of the PCB and part of the terminals and whatnot./
[01:28:59] <jfindley> no leds that I can clearly see with beer-vision
[01:29:25] <pcb_maker> jfindley: http://i.imgur.com/OxsmTXg.png and http://i.imgur.com/UFmwosm.png
[01:29:49] <pcb_maker> PCB http://i.imgur.com/SqvBSVb.jpg
[01:30:25] <jfindley> omg, did you etch that board with a file?
[01:31:01] <jfindley> or a dremel or something?
[01:32:41] <pcb_maker> HF center drill...
[01:32:56] <pcb_maker> with 1000rpm (sloooow)
[01:34:19] <pcb_maker> jfindley: what kind of stuff do you make?
[01:35:43] <jfindley> Some stuff that makes me money, some that makes me smile, and other stuff that's just to see what will happen.
[01:36:51] <pcb_maker> hehe..
[01:36:53] <pcb_maker> LOL
[01:37:19] <jfindley> http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o637/radicaldev/20140905_042550.jpg
[01:37:28] <jfindley> http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o637/radicaldev/20140815_232036.jpg
[01:38:06] <pcb_maker> What is that??
[01:38:21] <jfindley> First one paid my taxes last year. econd one was for an infrared sensor just to see if fab-in-a-box worked.
[01:39:03] <pcb_maker> very nice stuff!
[01:39:14] <pcb_maker> also very nice machining for the pcb!
[01:39:26] <pcb_maker> what cutter you using?
[01:41:57] <jfindley> ferric chloride
[01:42:21] <pcb_maker> so you ust drill it with the cnc?
[01:42:27] <pcb_maker> just*
[01:42:47] <pcb_maker> what machine do you heve?
[01:43:09] <jfindley> Gosh no. Don't you see how wonky those holes are? I'd throw away a CNC machine that produced that...
[01:43:51] <pcb_maker> http://i.imgur.com/PnBHcOn.jpg
[01:44:11] <pcb_maker> opps
[01:44:40] <pcb_maker> you dont have a machine?
[01:44:57] <jfindley> http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o637/radicaldev/20140815_001042.jpg
[01:45:52] <jfindley> That's my current set up. Thanks to a random encounter I've got a pretty nifty PCB milling bot on the way to me now, but it'll take a minute to figure out how to drive it.
[01:46:38] <pcb_maker> jfindley: do you want to make a cnc aout of a drill press?
[01:47:00] <pcb_maker> this is not going to work acurate..
[01:47:09] <jfindley> No, especially not that drill press. It's got something like .1mm runout.
[01:47:25] <pcb_maker> WOW,
[01:47:29] <archivist> a drill press hardly has a spindle up to the job of pcb making
[01:47:47] <pcb_maker> I can't read my runout.
[01:48:06] <pcb_maker> almost nothing.
[01:48:32] <pcb_maker> but i have problem from the low speed spindle,
[01:48:39] <pcb_maker> i want something fast.
[01:49:43] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-DC12V-Electric-Drill-Press-Small-PCB-Drilling-0-8mm-Drill-Bit-Diameter/351262461846?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32294%26meid%3D445b633f98fb493abc14bd3efbac2ae0%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D400920123237
[01:49:45] <jfindley> Nope. the PCBs I've made so far have all been a big chore, but I've made hundreds with what you see there (minus the ferric chloride, and sponges)
[01:50:11] <pcb_maker> but you cant cut tham nice..
[01:50:22] <archivist> I usually use a pcb manufacturer
[01:50:29] <pcb_maker> and me + acid = NO!
[01:51:10] <pcb_maker> now i have a max feed of 500mm/min
[01:51:36] <pcb_maker> but with 1000 rpm max you see thr results,
[01:52:01] <pcb_maker> so it i wild get about 10K-20K rpm i wuld be happy,
[01:52:40] <pcb_maker> about 100W of power will be more than fine.
[01:53:03] <pcb_maker> but I want it to mount to the R8 collet.
[01:53:11] <pcb_maker> this is the bigest trick.
[01:54:01] <pcb_maker> http://www.cncmasters.com/images/products/accessories/engraving-attachment.jpg
[01:54:19] <pcb_maker> I want thasame but electirc, not turbine.
[02:03:20] <tiwake> pcb_maker: for rotary engraving, I would get something from NSK
[02:03:47] <tiwake> pcb_maker: http://www.artcotools.com/nsk-electric-spindles/
[02:04:18] <tiwake> fantastic top notch engraving spindles
[02:05:07] <pcb_maker> look amazinggg
[02:05:52] <pcb_maker> they have for R8?
[02:06:03] <tiwake> what is that?
[02:06:30] <pcb_maker> collet type
[02:06:33] <jfindley> Holy shit... 40k RPM?
[02:06:42] <pcb_maker> just
[02:06:43] <tiwake> jfindley: the one I want is 60k
[02:06:47] <tiwake> RPM
[02:06:49] <pcb_maker> just 40K
[02:07:04] <jfindley> I can't even count that fast...
[02:07:28] <tiwake> super quiet too... I've used one in a machine a bit before
[02:07:32] <tiwake> but not for engraving
[02:07:52] <tiwake> donno why it was in the machine like that... but enh, not my machine
[02:07:57] <tiwake> super quiet
[02:09:41] <tiwake> pcb_maker: looks like to me you would have to make a holder or something for an R8, if thats even possible
[02:10:18] <tiwake> I don't remember if the narrowest version is 30mm or what
[02:10:24] <tiwake> maybe 20mm
[02:10:39] <tiwake> and just clamp onto that
[02:11:30] <tiwake> jfindley: oh, here is one rated at 80k RPM :)
[02:13:19] <jfindley> Yeah, I went to the highest number first. 400W drill spinning an 8mm bit at 40k RPM is some serious business....
[02:14:31] <Deejay__> moin
[02:15:10] <tiwake> ok, it looks like some of them have a motor/drive diameter of 1"
[02:20:54] <tiwake> you can get gear reducers and automatic collet changers too
[02:39:46] <toastydeath> you cannot spin an r8 at that speed
[02:39:48] <toastydeath> just fyi
[02:39:50] <toastydeath> please do not try it
[02:40:51] <toastydeath> with little tiny pin chucks you can get away with 40k rpm
[02:41:34] <toastydeath> but if you spin anything of any non-micro size, going to a collet that does not lose clamping force with rpm is necessary (like HSK)
[02:41:45] <toastydeath> ER collets do okay
[02:41:54] <toastydeath> but are not well advised over 15-20k rpm
[02:42:03] <toastydeath> lower if it's something as big as ER40
[02:42:55] <archivist> there was a nice balancing machine design on the web but the site is dead
[02:44:32] <toastydeath> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-DC12V-Electric-Drill-Press-Small-PCB-Drilling-0-8mm-Drill-Bit-Diameter/351262461846?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32294%26meid%3D445b633f98fb493abc14bd3efbac2ae0%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D400920123237
[02:44:38] <toastydeath> oops
[02:44:47] <toastydeath> irc is not chrome, apparently
[06:57:04] <SpeedEvil> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/medical-robots/inside-an-mri-a-nonmetallic-robot-performs-prostate-surgery
[06:59:43] <Tecan> tiny robots in the bum ?
[07:00:20] <SpeedEvil> I don't think they go that way
[07:00:46] <SpeedEvil> In principle, the rectum could be used as a route to prostate surgery, but this is a very bad idea due to infection.
[07:00:58] <Tecan> makes sense
[07:01:17] <malcom2073> rectum? Damn near killed um
[07:01:21] <SpeedEvil> I truly hope no significant patents are gotten on this.
[07:01:35] <SpeedEvil> (pezio using off-the-shelf parts in a MRI)
[07:02:21] <_methods> analbot
[07:02:31] <SpeedEvil> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/medical-robots/researchers-develop-robot-that-lets-them-feel-softness-of-virtual-breasts
[07:02:40] <_methods> ahhh
[07:02:43] <_methods> now we're talking
[07:02:45] <SpeedEvil> 'It's not because we're perverts, honestly'
[07:02:46] <_methods> boobie bots
[07:03:55] <redlegion> Titdroid
[07:04:00] <_methods> hehe
[07:04:12] <_methods> breast joke ever
[07:05:09] <redlegion> The titular comedy classic
[07:08:25] <_methods> hehe
[07:30:32] <spline> http://makezine.com/2015/07/08/bet-cant-find-use-11-million-1-gearbox/
[07:42:38] <malcom2073> "Headed in a different direction, Van Deventer has a new type of gear he calls “grinder gears” that comprise an inner gear with one fewer tooth than the outer gear, causing it to wobble its way through the rotation. " So... a harmonic drive
[07:45:01] <malcom2073> Cute though
[07:45:43] <MrFluffy> 11,000,000:1 gearbox, with almost no torque multiplication possibilities...
[07:47:42] <malcom2073> You could achieve that with three 100:1 harmonic drives and a 10:1 gear set, I think I have three small ones laying around....
[07:48:24] <MrFluffy> I meant the make magazine drive has no capacity to multiply torque with 3d printed plastic output gears etc
[07:48:37] <MrFluffy> its for moving things under next to no load tiny distances
[07:49:00] <malcom2073> Read the article, they go over that
[07:49:31] <MrFluffy> I wish I had some harmonic drives laying about capable of holding a trunnion table 1:1 on the output :)
[07:50:13] <malcom2073> Ebay! I plan on turning one of these into a trunion table drive
[07:51:22] <MrFluffy> I have most of a trunnion table setup built, but I am fighting a em brake to stop it moving, but I want it co-ordinated 4 axis capable...
[07:51:37] <MrFluffy> all the ones on ebay when I looked seemed rather...expensive :)
[07:52:03] <malcom2073> I typically pick up small ones for $200-300
[07:52:11] <MrFluffy> thats what I meant :)
[07:52:11] <malcom2073> They're few and far between though
[07:52:15] <malcom2073> oh hah, that's cheap :-P
[07:52:17] <malcom2073> Try them new
[07:52:34] <malcom2073> I built a bunch of pan/tilt heads at work with harmonic drives, they were like 10k! :/
[07:52:35] <MrFluffy> I paid less than that for my wire edm :)
[07:53:04] <malcom2073> My mill will have more in controls, tooling, vice, pretty much everything *independantly* than the cost of the mill itself ;)
[07:53:17] <malcom2073> Machines are cheap, it's the addons that get ya
[07:53:37] <MrFluffy> Ive got that covered, but its a painful experience learning
[07:53:49] <MrFluffy> try stainless tooling, everything stainless becomes 8*
[07:54:02] <MrFluffy> small toolmakers vice, $60, in stainless $450
[07:55:27] <MrFluffy> I'm waiting for a stainless casting version of the vdh dividing head because I got frightened even thinking about how much a stainless dividing head cost
[07:55:51] <cpresser> i bought a robot, with 4 harmonic drive axis, encoders and brakes for ~800€
[07:55:55] <MrFluffy> I'm a home shop user, this is my money I'm spending, it matters :)
[07:56:50] <malcom2073> Thta's the other option, buying machines with them in them heh
[07:57:04] <malcom2073> But yeah, my stuff is all home shop stuff, I feel your pain
[07:58:47] <MrFluffy> its nearly there with 8:1 drive back to a stepper with good holding torque, so I may do something stupid and wire out a htd pulley thats got more teeth than the spec says to push the ratio up higher to cure
[07:59:14] <MrFluffy> Probably find I cant get a belt then, best check that first on thinking about it...
[08:00:35] <MrFluffy> I bought a rotary for it to convert to 5 axis on the trunnion, and its turned up and good old ebay, its actually made of wood
[08:00:46] <MrFluffy> its a steel table, on a wooden baseplate...
[08:00:55] <malcom2073> Lol
[08:00:57] <malcom2073> Nice
[08:01:01] <MrFluffy> I couldnt believe it...
[08:01:15] <MrFluffy> its mahogny so nice and stable, but... really?
[08:02:50] <archivist> MrFluffy, just fix your gcode to be unidirectional then the rotary backlash matters a lot less
[08:03:27] <MrFluffy> its the trunnion table that I'm worried aobut holding torque and backlash for
[08:03:40] <MrFluffy> since it has more moment when you start machining out towards the edges
[08:03:48] <archivist> I am basically doing similar with http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_11_bevel/IMG_1633.JPG
[08:04:14] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=bevel
[08:04:39] <archivist> I still have to error to take into account
[08:04:48] <archivist> to/some
[08:06:16] <MrFluffy> nice, you have the advantage of starting with a real rotary there
[08:06:26] <MrFluffy> my trunnion axis is made from a old lathe headstock
[08:06:59] <MrFluffy> hence the need for very high ratio gearing back to a stepper, no worm or anything to reduce things
[08:07:06] <archivist> you need some quality in the gear in the rotary as that is another bag o worms
[08:07:08] <MrFluffy> or a harmonic drive, but $300...
[08:07:52] <MrFluffy> I have a horizontal table with some miles on it on the manual machine and that has the same issues with tight spots and slop you encounter with a worn worm setup
[08:08:04] <archivist> harmonics have been too expensive for me as well
[08:09:12] <archivist> some rotaries have an error at the rate of the teeth of the worm wheel
[08:09:20] <MrFluffy> A mk1 incarnation, I think I'm on v1.3 now :)
[08:09:21] <MrFluffy> http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38794-1/4th_axis.jpg
[08:09:30] <archivist> well all but some seriously bad
[08:10:32] <MrFluffy> there was a rotary setup for a dp on HaD and the guy just used the stepper holding torque, lol
[08:10:34] <archivist> I have never measured a belt system yet
[08:10:57] <MrFluffy> it looked like he had a toggle clamp setup as the brake, but that was just for clamping workpieces
[08:11:06] <archivist> that crappy pocketnc uses stepper torque too
[08:11:28] <MrFluffy> I added a mini moto brake with a em actuator to this, but you cant move while braked
[08:11:35] <MrFluffy> so no co-ordinated moves
[08:11:54] <MrFluffy> so more ratio is the answer (I hope)
[08:12:02] <archivist> cut against the force like a manual machinist would
[08:12:46] <MrFluffy> its for my bridgeport, I dont want to have to think about it once its made, I can use the manual machine if I want to get into that level of detail :)
[08:13:08] <archivist> I do it in the gcode :)
[08:13:22] <archivist> no cam involved
[08:13:50] <MrFluffy> I'm lazy, I just leave it to the cam toolchain to sort out
[08:14:58] <MrFluffy> the only time I get in there to fiddle is if it errors out, the control on the sodick is classic for that as it doesnt support all the subset of gcode and modes as its from the dawn of (nc) time
[08:15:01] <archivist> we had errors due to the rotaries when making some gears at the last place I worked, was all from the worm ans wheel
[08:16:43] <MrFluffy> I'm not even sure why I am making it 5th axis, probably for that most noble of reasons
[08:16:49] <MrFluffy> Because I can...
[08:18:09] <malcom2073> Heh
[08:18:12] <malcom2073> do you have software to drive it?
[08:18:18] <malcom2073> Or rather, to generate your gcode?
[08:21:23] <MrFluffy> I have a friend who does, and thats close enough for government work :)
[08:21:30] <MrFluffy> well his company does...
[08:23:32] <malcom2073> Nice
[08:24:05] <archivist> inside rear of skull cam is cheapest :)
[08:25:00] <MrFluffy> plying friend with crate of newcastle brown periodically is quite cost effective also :)
[08:25:43] <archivist> years since I had some of that
[08:28:02] <archivist> hiding the maths in the gcode is what I do
[08:31:09] <MrFluffy> Ultimately I'd like to be able to do cylinder porting and head chamber shapes with it
[08:31:50] <MrFluffy> But I suspect I should have started with a much larger machine...
[08:32:10] <MrFluffy> So the interact will be the mk1 experiment learning what not to do experience, and get something larger later on
[08:34:15] <archivist> make one of those 45 degree things, is it 3 stacked rotaries
[08:35:11] <AGR> skunkworks: still getting the same error, Pin 'emcmot.01.enable' does not exist. In # Spindle Enable of hal file. http://pastebin.com/d6Aj4eri
[08:35:12] <MrFluffy> probably a retrofit of linuxcnc to something that was nc and substantial to start with but with a obsolete control
[08:38:54] <archivist> MrFluffy, or trunnion plus a C http://www.centroidcnc.com/cnc_porting_machine.html
[08:39:25] <malcom2073> I want a trunion, with a rotary table in the bottom of it
[08:39:31] <malcom2073> trunnion
[08:40:30] <archivist> I want that plus a rotary sitting on it
[08:40:59] <archivist> then that bevel set up becomes easy
[08:45:28] <MrFluffy> if you have a slotted trunnion, what you bolt to it doesnt matter provided it can take the weight and hold fast
[08:45:43] <MrFluffy> I used a machine table for the trunnion bed
[08:46:08] <MrFluffy> although it was smaller, so I have a trunnion shelf rather than a table in reality
[08:47:16] <MrFluffy> it was just right size for that rotary table to mount, except that idea wooden go well now (groan)
[09:22:56] <AGR> 123
[09:23:16] <furrywolf> ABC
[09:28:27] <archivist> urn duh twar
[09:30:47] <furrywolf> un duh twa? or is that an accent/ :)
[09:30:49] <furrywolf> ?
[09:31:04] <malcom2073> Pirate accent?
[09:32:07] <archivist> must soon be talk like a pirate day
[09:32:31] <MrFluffy> Sept 19
[09:32:49] <archivist> http://www.talklikeapirate.com/
[09:35:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/OV07740-A32A/884-1005-ND/2123256 - does this give a price for people in the US?
[09:35:37] <SpeedEvil> It says 'under restriction here in the UK, which is something I've not seen before
[09:37:50] <malcom2073> 4.96
[09:39:30] <archivist> uk site fails to find the part for me
[09:39:42] <archivist> I can see the .com price
[09:46:47] <furrywolf> loaded here
[09:46:48] <furrywolf> what do you need a vga cmos sensor for? lol
[09:47:03] <MrFluffy> theyre not allowed to export it due to export restrictions probably
[09:49:55] <ssi> morn
[09:50:08] <skunkworks> acceleration anyone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeSselMw3Dk
[09:51:37] <cradek> heh that's not going to be a very good thread is it
[09:51:52] <ssi> variable pitch thread :D
[09:51:57] <cradek> he doesn't even start off the end of it...
[09:52:31] <ssi> looks cool anyway hahah
[09:54:33] <malcom2073> Isn't it normally good practice to go in->out for threads?
[09:54:35] <malcom2073> rather than out->in?
[09:54:45] <ssi> not necessarily
[09:55:06] <ssi> you'd need a tool on the backside or upside down to do in->out, or else you end up with left threads :)
[09:55:15] <malcom2073> I guess with cnc it doesn't *really* matter
[09:55:17] <malcom2073> Heh
[09:55:43] <malcom2073> Or spin the spindle the other way
[09:55:43] <skunkworks> He make a comment at the end that he needs to start back
[09:56:01] <cradek> on a manual lathe there's some benefit for threading backwards because you start in the tight spot instead of trying to end there
[09:56:17] <ssi> you have to spin the spindle the other way to cut a right thread backwards
[09:56:19] <cradek> but in cnc going leftward is the clear win
[09:56:28] <ssi> but if you spin the spindle the other way you need the tool on the backside or upside down
[09:56:34] <cradek> yep
[09:56:52] <malcom2073> Gotcha
[09:57:01] <skunkworks> I bet he could increase the acceleration of the machine
[09:57:09] <cradek> yeah by 10x or more I bet
[09:57:19] <cradek> it's clearly misconfigured
[10:00:56] <archivist> the reverse pass sounds terrible too
[10:01:59] <ssi> yea I thought it was losing steps at first
[10:02:04] <ssi> sounds like resonance
[10:02:23] <cradek> he might have it turned way down because it's badly tuned
[10:03:03] <archivist> tuned? its a stepper :)
[10:03:04] <cradek> although ... it sounds like steppers, so maybe a terrible sequence of bad decisions has led him to an unfortunate situation
[10:04:09] <archivist> not seen a servo Denford yet
[10:04:54] <archivist> that model of his is a new one on me too
[10:09:06] <AGR> skunkworks: still getting the same error, Pin 'emcmot.01.enable' does not exit. In # Spindle Enable of hal file.
[10:09:10] <AGR> http://pastebin.com/d6Aj4eri
[10:09:31] <malcom2073> Ok I'm watching a 1940's video on threading haha
[10:13:49] <archivist> AGR, if you only loaded one then that wont exist , I see earlier there is an emcmot.00.enable
[10:14:46] <AGR> archivist: what should I change
[10:15:11] <ssi> there's only one emcmot component loaded, so they should all be emcmot.00
[10:15:18] <archivist> I dont know what emcmot does without reading docs
[10:15:33] <ssi> but I don't tihnk you can drive the same enable signal from three places
[10:15:37] <ssi> I'm not sure what you're trying to do exactly
[10:15:55] <archivist> I am thinking what ssi is too
[10:17:00] <AGR> tring to drive VFD with 0-10 volts out
[10:19:09] <AGR> I got the same error when using emcmot.00
[10:19:50] <archivist> get small chunks working
[10:20:04] <archivist> understand what the signals are
[10:26:45] <_methods> so for a 7i76E do you need a second ethernet card for control of the cnc?
[10:27:04] <_methods> or can you just plug that monkey into a switch and control it from anywhere on your network?
[10:27:20] <ssi> I think you want a dedicated link
[10:27:33] <_methods> i kinda figured that but wasn't sure
[10:27:55] <_methods> so just dedicate a 2nd nic to the control
[10:27:58] <ssi> yeah
[10:28:06] <furrywolf> _methods: you can plug it in through any sequence of switches, hubs, etc, but network collisions may harm realtimeness.
[10:28:31] <furrywolf> I once asked if you could plug it into a wireless bridge, mostly as a joke, and pcw said yes...
[10:28:46] <_methods> still interesting
[10:28:46] <ssi> yes, and more specifically, if you are trying to do control over the same nic that's handling your primary network traffic, you're likely to get unacceptable latency
[10:29:29] <furrywolf> that said, if you only use the machine for other network tasks while you're not machining, it's probably fine.
[10:29:35] <_methods> i'm going to order a 7i76e or the 5i25/7i76 combo today
[10:29:42] <_methods> just trying to make final decision
[10:29:54] <ssi> personally I'd probably stick with the 5i25
[10:29:58] <furrywolf> 7i76e was out of stock as of two weeks ago, but pcw probably has them done by now...
[10:30:06] <os1r1s> _methods: What machine are you controlling?
[10:30:11] <_methods> 5i25 is tried and true
[10:30:29] <_methods> an x2
[10:30:46] <os1r1s> servos or steppers?
[10:30:49] <_methods> steppers
[10:31:02] <os1r1s> Ahh, ok
[10:31:11] <furrywolf> I want a 7i76e so I can plug it into my laptop, but get more pins than my current parport setup.
[10:31:24] <os1r1s> I have a small mill I'm considering converting to servos.
[10:31:34] <_methods> yeah i can just buy a 7i77 later
[10:31:36] <_methods> to go servo
[10:31:46] <_methods> i plan on adding a servo 4th axis
[10:32:48] <_methods> but by then i may have a small horizontal to convert
[10:32:56] <_methods> probably put the servos on that
[10:33:17] <skunkworks_> get rid rid of net spindle-enable emcmot.01.enable
[10:34:08] <_methods> i picked up my bandsaw a couple weeks ago so now i gotta get a good air compressor and a tig rig
[10:34:11] <AGR> shunkworks: thanks, will do
[10:34:18] <_methods> those 2 come before servo toys
[10:35:30] <os1r1s> Has anyone use an AMC 12A8 crushed servo amp?
[10:35:37] <furrywolf> looking at the variable-thread-pitch video, I thought linuxcnc was smart enough to use a trapezoidal cutting path such that the acceleration occoured while the tool wasn't cutting, and would give some kind of following error if it couldn't command the tool to keep up with the spindle?
[10:35:42] <ssi> I have used similar amps
[10:35:56] <ssi> I've used 30A8 and I've used a bunch of their brushless amps
[10:36:43] <cradek> furrywolf: the best you can do is start way right of the part and accelerate in air
[10:36:52] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean by trapezoidal
[10:36:54] <furrywolf> as in, from my understanding, you'd have to seriously work to make it suck that badly?
[10:37:33] <cradek> well, his machine is misconfigured and he's not starting in an appropriate place, making his results as bad as possible
[10:37:35] <furrywolf> rather than moving in and out of the cut straight, it'd move in at an angle... so your cutting path would be \___/ instead of |___|.
[10:38:02] <cradek> yes it can do that
[10:38:09] <furrywolf> shouldn't an excessive difference between where the cutter is and where the cutter should be to synchronize with the spindle give an error?
[10:38:13] <os1r1s> ssi: Would 3 of those + a 7i77 + 5i25 get me control over these motors? http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/motorservoglobepm-dc.aspx
[10:38:14] <ssi> yes there are lead in and lead out parameters
[10:38:38] <cradek> no, there's no error, because it's normal to have to accelerate
[10:38:50] <cradek> you just need to do it outside the part
[10:39:09] <furrywolf> ignoring acceleration, let's say your axis maximum velocity was less than needed to cut the thread at that spindle speed... that should definitely be an error.
[10:39:18] <ssi> os1r1s: I don't see why not
[10:39:42] <ssi> 12A8 is an up to 80V, 12A peak, 6A continuous brushed drive
[10:39:51] <ssi> the motors fit within those parameters
[10:39:52] <cradek> that is in theory detectable but isn't currently detected
[10:40:10] <furrywolf> in that case... feature request! :P
[10:40:21] <furrywolf> failure to properly synchronize with the spindle should be an error
[10:40:21] <ssi> furrywolf: spindle synchronized motion isn't subject to the following error rules
[10:40:22] <os1r1s> ssi: Think the HEDS encoders will work with linuxcnc too
[10:40:22] <cradek> patches thoughtfully considered
[10:40:44] <ssi> os1r1s: I don't know what a HEDS encoder is
[10:40:51] <cradek> there are soooo many ways to cut a bad thread on a lathe
[10:41:00] <furrywolf> heh. I don't even have a spindle encoder built yet. I bought the opto sensors, but I need the 7i76e to connect them...
[10:41:06] <ssi> some quick googling suggests it's a single ended TTL encoder
[10:41:13] <cradek> the one you want to detect is one of the few that's extremely obvious to the user
[10:41:25] <ssi> incremental
[10:41:34] <furrywolf> mill is on indefinite hold... until I can start working again, I'm worse than broke. :(
[10:41:35] <ssi> in which case, yes, 7i77 will count them just fine
[10:41:37] <os1r1s> ssi: These .. http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/hedm-55xx-and-heds-55xx-56xx-series/12510
[10:42:08] <ssi> yeah those should work fine
[10:42:22] <ssi> the 7i77 is configured for differential encoders by default, you'll have to jumper it for single ended encoders
[10:42:25] <os1r1s> ssi: And you would plug the encoders directly into the 7i77 and not 12a8s, right?
[10:42:32] <ssi> correct
[10:43:00] <ssi> now, in that arrangement you'll have no velocity feedback to the drive
[10:43:04] <ssi> so you'll need to run it in current mode
[10:43:07] <ssi> and tune accordingly
[10:43:18] <furrywolf> I seem to be slowly getting better... I have most of my feeling back in my left leg as long as I don't do anything involving moving. heh.
[10:43:27] <os1r1s> ssi: Would that be a big disadvantage?
[10:43:34] <ssi> no, it's just different
[10:43:56] <os1r1s> Which component is creating that limitation?
[10:44:26] <ssi> the drives require tachometer feedback for velocity mode, and you have no tachometers on your motors
[10:44:38] <os1r1s> Ahh, ok
[10:44:59] <os1r1s> ssi: I haven't bought those motors, they are just the ones I was considering. I need ones with a nema23 mount.
[10:45:18] <ssi> I'm not aware of any off the shelf servos for reasonable prices that have encoders and tachometers
[10:45:34] <ssi> some AMC drives can use the encoder for velocity feedback, but the 12A8 is not one of them
[10:45:49] * furrywolf isn't aware of any off-the-shelf servos for reasonable prices, period.
[10:46:37] <ssi> here you go
[10:46:37] <ssi> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__662__HXT900_9g_1_6kg_12sec_Micro_Servo.html
[10:47:10] <ssi> buy three times as many as you think you need, cause they have a pretty high infant mortality rate
[10:47:59] <os1r1s> Gotcha. Some of those amps have encoder inputs don't they? Can you normally bypass that and go straight to the mesa board?
[10:48:15] * furrywolf thinks ssi is fully aware that's not the right type of servo. :P
[10:48:24] <ssi> yes, in most cases the encoder input is just for velocity feedback
[10:48:39] <ssi> you can likely bring the encoder to both the mesa and the amp
[10:48:49] <furrywolf> anyway, those have encoders. :P
[10:48:51] <ssi> the mesa counts it for absolute position, and the amp uses it for velocity feedback
[10:49:07] <ssi> furrywolf: you can build a cnc machine with one, quitcherbitchen
[10:49:13] <ssi> s/one/several
[10:49:32] <ssi> https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/plotclock.jpg?w=765&h=573
[10:49:39] <os1r1s> ssi: So you can bypass the encoder on the 320x for example too?
[10:49:55] <ssi> no
[10:50:04] <ssi> the gecko servo drives are not what you want
[10:50:08] <ssi> they're position mode drives
[10:50:24] <ssi> they count the encoder, they close the position loop, and you interface with them via step/dir as if they were a stepper
[10:50:42] <skunkworks_> you want velocity or current/voltage mode drives...
[10:50:47] <ssi> those drives are for people who run inferior windows-based control software that doesn't know how to close the position loop
[10:53:08] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-200W-SERVO-PACK-DRIVER-MOTOR-3-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER/260742909935
[10:53:29] <os1r1s> ssi: Gotcha. Its intersting that the 7i77 doesn't have a 0-10v for spindle control. I'm guessing it can't use a spare servo output.
[10:53:37] <ssi> sure it can
[10:54:01] <ssi> the first five enables are ganged together, the sixth enable is separate
[10:54:14] <ssi> the reason for that is because typically you'll use the sixth channel for spindle, and you want to be able to enable it separately
[10:54:20] <ssi> whereas you normally enable all the axes together
[10:54:49] <ssi> that way you also get an encoder counter for your spindle
[10:55:30] <os1r1s> ssi: Oh, cool. That could work well then. It would go to a KBIC control. So hopefully that will link up.
[10:55:38] <os1r1s> I control it via a G540 today
[10:56:11] <ssi> any reason not to stick with the G540 and steppers?
[10:57:38] <os1r1s> ssi: Not particularly. I'm interested in learning how to make it work with servos. Beyond that and the standard touted benefits of servos, I don't have a need.
[10:58:00] <os1r1s> Would you advise against it?
[10:58:25] <ssi> if you have a working machine with steppers and drives, I'm not sure I'd pull it apart and start over
[10:58:33] <ssi> converting to servos is going to be a fair amount of work
[10:58:44] <ssi> there's a pretty substantial learning curve
[10:58:56] <ssi> if it were me, I'd probably want to build a second machine and go servo on it
[10:59:04] <ssi> but I'm the nut with like six machines
[10:59:14] <_methods> n00b
[10:59:53] <os1r1s> ssi: I have 3 (small mills) and one small lathe. I have a similar addiction problem.
[11:00:45] <ssi> I have three mills... one manual and two cnc, and neither cnc mill works :P
[11:00:52] <_methods> hehe
[11:01:05] <ssi> three lathes, one manual and two cnc and neither cnc lathe works
[11:01:17] <ssi> jeez when you put it that way... :(
[11:01:22] <ssi> I guess I have more than six machines
[11:01:34] <os1r1s> I tend to collect more 3d printers, but ya'll will throw something at me when I say that :)
[11:01:36] <ssi> cause I have the cnc plasma table which mostly works at the moment, the surface grinder, and the cnc punch press which doesn't work
[11:01:39] <ssi> so that's nine machines
[11:01:46] <ssi> not counting the 3d printers :P
[11:01:52] <ssi> or the laser table whcih I no longer have
[11:02:02] <_methods> in spirit
[11:02:26] <ssi> OMG
[11:02:27] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rarest-NOS-NIB-NIXIE-MATRIX-screen-100x100-10000-Z568M-/321346505250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad1be8a22
[11:02:59] <_methods> nice
[11:04:09] <_methods> you'll need that for your firefox dash panel
[11:04:32] <cradek> those old hand-drawn circuit boards are beautiful
[11:06:20] <cradek> (people sure call a lot of things nixies)
[11:06:43] <ssi> is it orange and russian? must be nixie
[11:06:56] <_methods> rarest
[11:07:07] <cradek> putting Z568M and IN-18 in the description is a silly trick
[11:07:11] <furrywolf> ... that's not a "nixie matrix". nixies draw letters with individual elements, not dots.
[11:07:28] <ssi> not necessarily true
[11:07:29] <archivist> plasma display
[11:07:53] <cradek> a real Z568M (clock 2): http://timeguy.com/cradek/clocks
[11:07:57] <ssi> you can build a tube with dots or lines and light them up discriminately to draw things
[11:08:03] <archivist> early mono laptops used them too
[11:08:24] <_methods> heh i guess firefox is such an old movie i can't even find any pics of the cockpit
[11:08:44] <ssi> archivist: I had an old 486 luggable with a plasma display
[11:09:02] <archivist> ssi, I had one too
[11:09:10] <archivist> laptop that is
[11:09:43] <furrywolf> I never had a plasma display... my 8088 laptop had lcd, and so did everything newer.
[11:10:30] <ssi> cradek: do you still have the numitrons that came out of your HNC control?
[11:10:39] <ssi> I was gonna do something with mine, but I think they're gone now
[11:11:04] <cradek> I've got some somewhere
[11:11:19] <cradek> I don't care about numitrons because they're not long-lasting enough to bother building something with
[11:11:37] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bc1xn_ICIAATLLA.jpg:large
[11:11:59] <cradek> they sure are readable in daylight, though
[11:12:02] <ssi> yea
[11:12:03] <furrywolf> only nixies I still have are my ancient fluke multimeter.
[11:12:09] <archivist> nixies die too, pain keeping old counters working
[11:12:33] <cradek> the long-life burroughs nixies will last for decades *of active use*
[11:12:45] <cradek> the b5991 etc models
[11:13:08] <cradek> in my clock that's run for 14? years now I see no darkening yet
[11:13:11] <furrywolf> all my nixies are good except one has a short between one cathode and part of the frame, so it excessively glows.
[11:13:26] <cradek> the "long life" models have mercury in them and it works great
[11:13:58] <cradek> and ... somewhere I have a box of 100 or so of them
[11:14:07] <archivist> only decades, the ones used in late sixties early seventies HP counters are the ones I am moaning about, the drive is odd too
[11:14:07] <cradek> a many-lifetime supply
[11:14:39] <cradek> archivist: are they darkened so bad they're unreadable?
[11:14:50] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/nixies/fluke10mv.jpg nixies. :)
[11:14:57] <cradek> archivist: the non-mercuried versions really darken fast - a few years
[11:14:57] <archivist> HP used an opto coupling between the counter and nixie
[11:15:19] <cradek> yeah the optical bcd-decoder thing was wild
[11:15:26] <cradek> terrible idea :-)
[11:15:29] <archivist> inter electrode problems usually
[11:15:38] <Connor> I had a nice volt meter that was Nixie based.. not sure what happened to it...
[11:15:58] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/nixies/fluke10v.jpg there, you can see the bad tube in that image... the 0 cathode shorts to some of the frame. I've been ignoring it, as it's entirely functional.
[11:16:39] <archivist> cradek, re visit the counter, not even proper bcd iirc really odd decade counters
[11:16:52] <furrywolf> this multimeter has some funky designs... for example, the display is stored as analog voltages on a set of capacitors, one capacitor per digit.... 1V makes it display 1, etc.
[11:17:21] <cradek> some were biquinary (two anode cages in the tubes)
[11:17:52] <archivist> I wonder if a high voltage could burn off a short
[11:18:17] <cradek> I know too much current makes the neon quit working...
[11:18:25] <furrywolf> archivist: it works. it's a very minor issue having a bit of extra glowing under one tube only when zero is displayed. :)
[11:18:25] <cradek> "pop"
[11:18:59] <furrywolf> for how old that multimeter is, that's a remarkably minor failure. I'm always impressed it's still accurate to the microvolt. :P
[11:19:23] <cradek> that you have any two things that agree on microvolts is pretty incredible
[11:19:23] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/nixies/fluke01.jpg I enter 12.345mv (millivolts, not volts!) on my dial-a-source, it displays 12.345mv... hard to beat that!
[11:19:47] <furrywolf> cradek: yep. hence why I'm impressed.
[11:20:02] <archivist> perhaps the error is the same as the source :)
[11:20:06] <furrywolf> the voltage source is... *thinks*... rated for .0015% or something like that.
[11:20:14] <furrywolf> archivist: entirely possible. :)
[11:20:20] <cncjerry> good morning, at what level of the code do I need to be to have the tolerance_Inch active? I am having trouble with arcs missing due to rounding. The errors are always like .0005526 for some reason unless I change my CNC machining and fixture accuracy to .000001 which means older code would have to be reformatted
[11:20:20] * archivist ducks and runs
[11:21:31] <cradek> cncjerry: can you transcribe an actual error please?
[11:21:54] <furrywolf> I was also impressed with Fluke's customer support... the sampling rate circuit stopped working. I asked fluke for a service manual, and got a response along the lines of "not only do we not have one, but no one who's ever seen one still works here. but we'll see what we can do..."
[11:22:06] <furrywolf> two weeks later I got an email "we bought one and scanned it. here's the pdf. enjoy!"
[11:22:50] <ssi> speaking of fluke
[11:23:03] <ssi> I wonder how much it would cost to have my 189 overhauled
[11:23:06] <cncjerry> I'll go down and load some code but basically, it is the arc to center error, absolute error is .00005526. The arcs vary. I can post the lines that don't run
[11:23:10] <archivist> furrywolf, whats the model number
[11:23:42] <furrywolf> archivist: don't remember. the PDF is on their website now. they've started a project to put all their service manuals, current and historical, online.
[11:24:19] <archivist> furrywolf, some manuals I have duplicate real dead tree manuals http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=fluke
[11:24:21] <furrywolf> it was odd working on it... many things in it are not built like modern things.
[11:24:31] <furrywolf> the analog memory is just one example
[11:24:43] <furrywolf> it also uses unobtainium logic chips running at weird voltages...
[11:24:58] <furrywolf> I think it's an 8350A
[11:25:08] <_methods> cncjerry: a sample of your code that is making the error pastebin'd would be helpful also
[11:25:18] <archivist> I have a counter that uses analogue memory to work a meter movement that rotated a film and projects the numbers
[11:25:26] <furrywolf> hrmm, that's not right.
[11:25:29] <furrywolf> it's something like that. :P
[11:25:38] <cncjerry> cradek, this G0 X.92676 Y1.06812 followed by G3 X.78055 Y1.16748 I-.123 J-.023 runs fine on Mach3 but linuxcnc 2.5 barfs
[11:25:41] <cradek> cncjerry: recent versions are supposed to run all arcs from gcode that has been rounded to .001in or .01mm
[11:26:12] <cradek> wow 2.5?
[11:26:16] <archivist> one of this series http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/venner.html
[11:27:57] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-8300A-Digital-Volt-Meter-w-Nixie-Tube-Display-0024-/121699252670 that looks like the same one, so 8300A? :)
[11:28:35] <PCW> I have a Digitec voltmeter with a odometer like readout
[11:28:37] <archivist> iirc the 8100 was a white front
[11:29:21] <furrywolf> I upgraded mine to take a standard iec power cable instead of the funky one... removed the stock plug and fit in a fancy filtered+shielded module from a pc power supply.
[11:30:32] <furrywolf> it already had plenty of filtering and shielding, but you can't have too much filtering and shielding... also, it was $0, unlike sourcing the proper power cord. :)
[11:32:46] <cncjerry> I got bounced out, lost any message after I typed "try not to touch a machine that works"
[11:33:11] <cradek> cncjerry: you should update to the latest 2.6. it has more sensible defaults and it's also a configurable tolerance
[11:33:28] <cncjerry> can I upgrade without wiping the system?
[11:33:32] <cradek> your only other remedy is add those missing numbers after the decimals in IJ words in your gcode
[11:33:41] <cradek> what OS is it?
[11:33:43] <furrywolf> actually, you should upgrade to the latest 2.7... complaints about 2.6.8's trajectory planner are too frequent. :)
[11:33:55] <archivist> furrywolf, I think this is the one I had then scrapped http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-8375A-Digital-Multimeter-Nixie-Tubes-/281737842450
[11:33:56] <cradek> 2.7 is not released
[11:34:03] <cncjerry> I used the load and go cd to just put it down on the system
[11:34:33] <cradek> sure but which OS is it? we've made those for 10 years.
[11:35:07] <furrywolf> the thing I most regret scrapping is a tektronix scientist calculator. I kick myself pretty hard over that one.
[11:35:20] <cncjerry> let me go look
[11:35:31] <furrywolf> http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/tek909.html I had one of those.
[11:36:23] <cradek> cncjerry: if it's lucid, see updating instructions here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Updating_LinuxCNC.html#_updating_from_2_5_x_to_2_6_x
[11:38:51] <furrywolf> cradek: there's been a number of complaints in the last month or two about stupid behavior from the trajectory planner... there's nothing in the 2.6.8 changelog about it, but some people complain it exact stops even with G64 Pwhatever, other people complain it rounds corners no matter what P is...
[11:38:53] <cncjerry> yes,. 10.04 LTS says Lucid under it. so 2.6 has that tolerance_inch param?
[11:39:41] <furrywolf> upgrading to 2.7 seems to make the complaints go away
[11:41:01] <furrywolf> archivist: not only did I have the calculator, I had the 2.5" thick service and programming manual... but back then it wasn't vintage, it was just an old piece of crap in the way...
[11:42:43] <archivist> furrywolf, I know the feeling...been there done that a few times, nothing can become r@re without some losses along the way
[11:43:25] <cradek> > interesting device called the "928 Instructor", that allows keypresses on the keyboard to be recorded in realtime on an audio cassette recorder, then played back (at the same speed) from the cassette.
[11:43:32] <cradek> wow
[11:43:38] <furrywolf> it was complex... a full cpu and high-precision floating point math unit built with simple gates.
[11:45:54] <furrywolf> complete with trig functions, etc
[11:48:09] <archivist> I failed to rescue an Olivetti accounting machine that was typewriter sized
[11:48:14] <PCW> the TP with linuxcnc <2.7 works fine if you dont have lots of short segments
[11:48:16] <PCW> If you have exact stops and no blending its probably a gcode issue
[11:48:17] <PCW> 2.7 will run quite a bit faster on gcode with lots of segments because it has more lookahead
[11:48:22] <archivist> I have the PCBs somewhere
[11:49:38] <furrywolf> PCW: there's been a few complaints about it... the last person complaining about exact-stopping came up with a trivial test case, four arcs cutting a circle, and it kept stopping between them.
[11:50:00] <furrywolf> another person had corners that were an eighth inch or something rounded, no matter what P was.
[11:50:12] <furrywolf> on a square
[11:50:14] <PCW> bad gcode likely
[11:50:39] <skunkworks_> we would need examples. I have not seen any of this behavior.
[11:50:43] <cradek> I haven't either
[11:51:07] <furrywolf> one was about a week ago, one about a month ago... I can't remember the specifics of the others.
[11:52:00] <os1r1s> Speaking of bad gcode, what is the daytime consensus BobCad? Good/Bad
[11:52:19] <cradek> I have never heard someone say a good thing about bobcad
[11:52:23] <PCW> not likely a TP bug (its been pounded on for years)
[11:52:56] <furrywolf> I've never heard of bobcad. :)
[11:54:06] <furrywolf> I really need to get+learn cad+cam...
[11:54:08] <archivist> was he too busy with carol or alice to get it right
[11:54:37] <furrywolf> or? it was a man-in-the-middle job.
[11:54:54] <archivist> I blame ted
[11:55:13] <os1r1s> cradek: hehe. Good to know
[11:55:44] <cradek> I have never seen it but their salesman used to call frequently and ask to talk to my cat. I don't remember how that came about.
[11:56:07] <furrywolf> lol
[11:56:34] <cradek> he used to get mail too
[11:57:08] <cradek> the cat, not the salesman
[12:08:49] <CaptHindsight> _methods: did you find your SS pipe/tube?
[12:17:24] <os1r1s> ssi: Does this motor look worth a damn? http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-m-dc-servo-motor/skewed-servo-dual-shaft-3
[12:21:55] <malcom2073> That looks like just a motor, no encoder?
[12:22:13] <os1r1s> malcom2073: Yeah, no encoder. But I can add an encoder to the back
[12:24:26] <malcom2073> Yeah I don't know enough about small servos to be able to say much heh
[12:26:55] <ssi> os1r1s: I've never used one of their servos, but I've always wanted to try them
[12:27:09] <ssi> it's one of the few reasonable looking off the shelf servos
[12:27:27] <os1r1s> ssi: I trust you can easily control the RPM to slow it down via the 7i77
[12:28:17] <ssi> uhm, in a roundabout sort of way, yes
[12:28:28] <ssi> it's a servo... you can run it at 0.001rpm if you want
[12:29:40] <os1r1s> hehe. Thats what I was expecting :)
[12:31:31] * furrywolf has a couple motors running at 0.00139rpm
[12:37:42] <Loetmichel2> *meh* just saw a driver instructor with his student on a 250ccm bike on a parking lot training slalom, turns and full stops... got my own 50cc bike to drive there and ask him how much a bike drivers license is atm... (1600Eur++, ouch)... watched a while. That student... every turn on the slaopme one had fear he would faceplant (wooble)... and he need 3 lanes for a 180° turn... and the "full
[12:37:42] <Loetmichel2> brake" ended 20 meters BEHIND the instructor :-(
[12:43:51] <ssi> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-man-sedates-girlfriend-so-he-can-keep-playing-video-games-10376658.html
[12:43:54] <ssi> that's dedication
[12:46:04] <zeeshan> lol ssi
[12:46:04] <zeeshan> wtf
[12:47:07] <ssi> wat
[12:47:11] <zeeshan> the article
[12:47:14] <ssi> WAT
[12:47:22] <PetefromTn_> there's an asshole born every minute....or something like that was said once LOL
[12:47:23] <malcom2073> ssi: Sucks that you got fined
[12:47:34] <ssi> yeah next time I need to use ten drops
[12:47:44] <PetefromTn_> fined?
[12:49:09] <ssi> nm pete, nothing to see here :D
[12:49:22] <PetefromTn_> Oh of that I am sure...
[12:49:34] <Deejay> greetings Pete
[12:49:36] <PetefromTn_> Just got back from town
[12:49:40] <PetefromTn_> HEY DEEJAY!!
[12:49:46] <PetefromTn_> :D
[12:49:49] <ssi> don't take your love to town
[12:50:01] <PetefromTn_> no I took my minivan
[12:50:10] <PetefromTn_> da love machine
[12:50:57] <PetefromTn_> picked up a 5 gallon container of battery acid, eleven gallons of deionized water, a bunch of PPE stuff...and a partridge in a pear tree
[12:51:07] <ssi> ITS HAPPENING
[12:51:22] <PetefromTn_> Something is happening....not sure what yet
[12:51:58] <Connor> PetefromTn_: What size buckets you using for your stations ?
[12:52:09] <PetefromTn_> 48 quart coolers
[12:52:31] <ssi> have you verified material compatibility?
[12:52:40] <PetefromTn_> of?
[12:52:49] <ssi> I used rubbermaid tubs, cause they're polypropylene, which is compatible with both the strong caustic and strong acidic solutions
[12:53:04] <ssi> you have battery acid, what are you using for caustic?
[12:53:18] <PetefromTn_> the concensus here was that igloo coolers were made of the right stuff
[12:53:34] <ssi> Hard-side coolers: The exterior body of most Igloo hard-side coolers is made of high-density polyethylene, while the interior liner is made of FDA-grade polypropylene. The insulation is made of Ultratherm™ - a proprietary blend of polyurethane foam.
[12:53:38] <ssi> that ought to work
[12:53:39] <PetefromTn_> I have also seen quite a few youtube videos of nice setups using them
[12:54:12] <Connor> How many of those do you need ? They're not exactly cheap..
[12:54:18] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/OEDXyuQ.jpg
[12:54:22] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[12:54:30] <PetefromTn_> I got five of them
[12:54:42] <PetefromTn_> sounds like I will only need three actually
[12:54:43] <Connor> what about $24 a pop
[12:54:57] <PetefromTn_> $15.00 on sale at walmart
[12:55:01] <Connor> ah
[12:55:13] <PetefromTn_> usually they are like $30.00
[12:55:13] <Connor> Use the other 2 for different die colors
[12:55:25] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: bastard! I just went yesterday and they didn't have shit in stock
[12:55:27] <PetefromTn_> I will not be using water based dyes
[12:55:41] <Connor> Oh? What are you using?
[12:55:51] <PetefromTn_> Jymmm I know I told them to get rid of them because you were coming
[12:56:08] <Tom_itx> i could go down to the local Coleman factory and pull some off the line...
[12:56:12] <PetefromTn_> solvent based dyes courtesy of Captainhindsight
[12:56:28] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I figurd something lie that
[12:57:33] <PetefromTn_> I got some nitrile gauntlets, a big nice full face mask, a small apron, two large containers of baking soda, and a bunch of other PPE related stuff.
[12:57:35] <Connor> PetefromTn_: but don't you need a tub for each of those ?
[12:57:37] <_methods> CaptHindsight: yeah we got it
[12:57:47] <PetefromTn_> each of what
[12:57:50] <_methods> i ended up having to go with sch10 5"
[12:57:59] <_methods> they didn't have any sch5
[12:58:04] <Connor> solvent based dyes.. for different colors...
[12:58:20] <PetefromTn_> well it depends on what you want to do.
[12:58:53] <PetefromTn_> apparently the nice thing about it is you can sponge it on, dip your parts in it, airbrush it on, and quite a few other methods of application.
[12:59:07] <Connor> Oh.
[12:59:18] <PetefromTn_> the only reason I will need any of the water based dyes is if I want to get fancy with splash anodizing.
[12:59:37] <furrywolf> have at least a gallon of pre-mixed baking soda+water. saturate the water with as much baking soda as you can. that way when you spill acid on yourself, you don't need to mix it...
[13:00:02] <PetefromTn_> right now my attention is just to get some basic black parts made here.
[13:00:32] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf thanks for the tip but I don't plan on spilling it on myself but It is not a bad idea really.
[13:00:44] <Tom_itx> you never plan that
[13:00:45] <Rab> PetefromTn_, nobody does.
[13:00:56] <PetefromTn_> sure
[13:01:09] <PetefromTn_> I am new to this
[13:01:17] <PetefromTn_> and I am sure I will make a few mistakes
[13:01:17] <Tom_itx> noob
[13:01:21] <furrywolf> also good when you realized it splashed onto tools/concrete/etc.
[13:01:23] <PetefromTn_> TOTALLY
[13:01:26] <Tom_itx> heh
[13:01:48] <PetefromTn_> The biggest challenge I think will be just dealing with this large acid container.
[13:02:09] <ssi> PetefromTn_: are you not going to have a caustic bath?
[13:02:09] <PetefromTn_> it is a 5 gallon container and has a little orifice tube that you release the acid from
[13:02:16] <Tom_itx> i had ~5 gal of acid given to me when the local pcb fab shop closed
[13:02:20] <PetefromTn_> apparently I won't be needing one
[13:02:25] <Tom_itx> i didn't want to keep it so i gave it away
[13:02:28] <ssi> I'm pretty sure you do
[13:02:38] <ssi> it dissolves the existing oxide layer
[13:02:40] <PetefromTn_> not according to Captainhindsight
[13:03:03] <PetefromTn_> my parts are machined completely around their outside
[13:03:14] <ssi> doesn't matter... aluminum forms an oxide layer in seconds
[13:03:18] <PetefromTn_> besides if I need one I have enough containers here
[13:03:26] <ssi> you can't add your controlled oxide layer to existing oxide
[13:03:28] <PetefromTn_> and lye is locally available
[13:03:49] <PetefromTn_> you would have to ask Captainhindsight about that
[13:04:29] <PetefromTn_> he seems to think it is not necessary
[13:04:35] <ssi> eh I'm not that concerned about your success :D
[13:04:44] <PetefromTn_> Oh I am sure you are not
[13:05:18] <furrywolf> I need to get some battery alkaline one of these days.
[13:05:43] <PetefromTn_> I spent a boatload of cash on all of this stuff I sure hope I can get it done here...
[13:05:56] <PetefromTn_> this is not for shits and giggles
[13:06:03] <furrywolf> I need to mix about 60 gallons of 33% KOH + LiOH....
[13:08:25] <Tom_itx> well i'm giggling :D
[13:09:16] <ssi> WHY TOM, WHYYYYY
[13:10:34] <PetefromTn_> I'm just a big joke to all of you guys here I know...
[13:10:41] <PetefromTn_> that's okay
[13:10:46] <PetefromTn_> I'm good with it.
[13:10:55] <Tom_itx> naw, i applaud what you're doing... i just like giving you shit
[13:11:17] <PetefromTn_> and I deserve some of that shit to be sure.
[13:11:29] <ssi> and yes, I kept baking soda solution on hand
[13:11:32] <PetefromTn_> just trying to scratch out a business here
[13:11:33] <ssi> as well as white vinegar for the lye
[13:11:38] <_methods> shitz'n'gigglez
[13:11:43] <ssi> and you WILL get acid in places you don't want it
[13:11:52] <ssi> like I said the other day
[13:11:56] <ssi> all my clothes had holes in them
[13:11:56] <ssi> :P
[13:12:15] <PetefromTn_> I guess we shall see here soon
[13:12:22] <furrywolf> grrr, stupid internet connection.
[13:12:24] <PetefromTn_> because all the bullshit is over now
[13:12:24] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> I need to mix about 60 gallons of 33% KOH + LiOH....
[13:12:24] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> about 200lbs of KOH and 8lbs of LiOH.
[13:12:24] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> going to be fun.
[13:12:49] <_methods> the restaurant in beerfest was called shitz'n'gigglez
[13:12:49] <PetefromTn_> now it's time to put all this stuff to task and see what comes out the other end.
[13:13:09] <ssi> get it done
[13:13:13] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, take pics of your failed tests too so we can see the effects of contaminates etc
[13:13:18] <ssi> I expect to see splash anodized scope rails by six pm
[13:13:34] <PetefromTn_> I honestly wish I had more cash I want to build the kart I intend for the setup
[13:13:45] <ssi> shifter kart?!
[13:13:48] <ssi> high speed anodizing?!
[13:13:51] <PetefromTn_> that is gonna have to wait a bit so I will be crawling around on the floor here
[13:14:04] <_methods> http://ch2289.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/schnitzengiggle-tavern.jpg
[13:14:09] <PetefromTn_> no an anodization kart that I can roll in and out of the shop
[13:14:15] <_methods> schnitzengiggle
[13:14:17] <_methods> hahaha
[13:14:25] <Tom_itx> now you need a robotic arm to move the parts from tank to tank
[13:14:30] * PetefromTn_ thinks methods is high or something
[13:14:40] <PetefromTn_> thats not a bad idea
[13:14:57] * _methods loves beerfest
[13:15:05] <Tom_itx> hopefully my cards'll be here tomorrow so i can get my control back up and goin
[13:15:08] * PetefromTn_ loves Oktoberfest
[13:15:36] * ssi loves lamp
[13:15:38] <_methods> mmm pretzels
[13:15:41] <Tom_itx> i should end up with a spare set of cards
[13:15:48] <PetefromTn_> so I have this 48 quart cooler for the anodizing tank
[13:15:54] <Tom_itx> depending on my soldering skilz
[13:16:07] <ssi> Tom_itx: what kind of cards
[13:16:10] <Tom_itx> btw, how'd that USB plug come otu?
[13:16:11] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking I would put it a little above halfway full
[13:16:12] <Tom_itx> ssi, mesa
[13:16:16] <ssi> oic
[13:16:21] <Tom_itx> i had a mishap with a PSU
[13:16:30] <ssi> yea I've murdered a few mesa cards myself
[13:16:32] <Tom_itx> cheap chinese reg went bad
[13:16:35] <ssi> managed to fix them tho
[13:16:43] <ssi> peter's pretty generous with spares :D
[13:16:45] <Tom_itx> i managed to fix em all so far
[13:16:51] <Tom_itx> yes he is
[13:17:16] <Tom_itx> last one was 3 56pin tssops
[13:17:23] * furrywolf still needs a mesa setup
[13:17:30] <PetefromTn_> so I was thinking 4 gallons of acid to 4 gallons of water for the mixture
[13:17:41] <PetefromTn_> water first of course
[13:17:53] <archivist> eye of newt, 6 toads
[13:18:11] <_methods> listen to archivist
[13:18:14] <_methods> he's english
[13:18:18] <_methods> they're all wizards
[13:18:25] <_methods> hehe
[13:18:26] <Tom_itx> those brit's are nuts
[13:18:40] <archivist> not striving to be normal
[13:18:56] <Tom_itx> succeeding quite well
[13:19:04] <PetefromTn_> that .pdf file I got from one of you guys said to mix 50/50 due to the pre-diluted acid they sell today
[13:19:05] * furrywolf doesn't strive to be normal either
[13:19:32] <Tom_itx> i think everybody in here's a little off in one way or another...
[13:19:40] <_methods> ^^
[13:19:59] <skunkworks_> agreed.
[13:20:00] <furrywolf> are you sure? I might be perfectly normal. :P
[13:20:10] <PetefromTn_> how do you make those up arrows
[13:20:17] <_methods> lol
[13:20:19] <Tom_itx> shift F6
[13:20:20] <skunkworks_> ^^
[13:20:25] <archivist> wot! ^^ them
[13:20:31] <Tom_itx> ^^^^^^
[13:20:32] <Jymmm> furrywolf: And I might be Mother Teresa reincarnated.
[13:20:37] <skunkworks_> carrot
[13:20:41] <_methods> ^^
[13:20:42] <PetefromTn_> apparently not
[13:20:46] <_methods> shift 6
[13:20:51] <PetefromTn_> ^ ah
[13:20:53] <furrywolf> alt-f4? :P
[13:20:54] * furrywolf hides
[13:20:56] <Tom_itx> err 6
[13:20:59] <Tom_itx> not F6
[13:21:10] <PetefromTn_> ^^^^^^^^^^Weeeee
[13:21:15] <skunkworks_> wow
[13:21:16] <_methods> there ya go
[13:21:19] <skunkworks_> doesn't take much
[13:21:22] <skunkworks_> :)
[13:21:22] <Tom_itx> shift F6 will load a virus on your pc
[13:21:26] <PetefromTn_> never does
[13:21:30] <_methods> |^^^^^|
[13:21:32] <_methods> carrot cake
[13:22:12] <Jymmm> CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+ESC+NUMPAD_9+U+SCRN_PRNT
[13:22:20] <_methods> NEVER do that
[13:22:33] <furrywolf> I see jymm has used a laptop.
[13:22:40] <PetefromTn_> I don't have enough index fingers for that
[13:22:47] <furrywolf> you want fun, try doing a magic sysrq on a laptop. :P
[13:22:47] <skunkworks_> talking about being a little off.. Mach4 path following at higher speeds.. http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/grbl/mach4shortlog.png
[13:23:10] <_methods> http://t.qkme.me/3lcd.jpg
[13:23:11] <PetefromTn_> WOW...
[13:23:26] <PetefromTn_> love that movie
[13:23:33] <PetefromTn_> freakin' hilarious
[13:23:49] <PetefromTn_> whaddya mean we???
[13:23:54] <_methods> hahah
[13:23:55] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It took me 8 months to finally learn the sequence on a Mac laptop to pass-thru via vmware to the guest OS
[13:24:27] * furrywolf waits for them to make macs with only one button for all the keyboard keys, that does a different letter the longer you hold it
[13:25:15] <ssi> been done
[13:25:15] <ssi> http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no--14299
[13:25:18] <_methods> http://cdn.lolbrary.com/2013/12/5/lolbrary.com_16671_1386286617.jpg
[13:25:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: No buttons, remember they have that buttonless wireless batteryless existantless trackpad now
[13:25:53] <furrywolf> ... huh?
[13:26:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: At least Apple thinks so
[13:26:22] <PetefromTn_> jeez man those are some WHITE TEETH!!
[13:26:23] <furrywolf> (methods' link)
[13:26:57] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully I don't go full retard with this anodizing stuff heh
[13:27:32] <Jymmm> too late
[13:27:59] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: not put on your official propeller har hat and be off with ya
[13:28:05] <_methods> hahah
[13:28:08] <_methods> simple jack it up
[13:28:27] <PetefromTn_> I remember those propeller hats LOL
[13:29:40] * _methods slides propeller hat into desk drawer
[13:30:00] <PetefromTn_> I can't decide if Sarah Silverman is sexy or not...
[13:30:41] <PetefromTn_> she's on this Star Trek voyager Episode
[13:30:52] <PetefromTn_> Looks pretty good hehe
[13:31:04] * furrywolf cares far more about brains than bodies
[13:31:06] <ssi> I think she once described herself as "kinda jewy but in a hot way"
[13:31:12] <ssi> more or less accurate hahah
[13:31:21] <PetefromTn_> that's pretty good actually
[13:31:45] <_methods> i wouldn't kick her out of my bed for eating crackers
[13:31:51] <PetefromTn_> I mean I think she is pretty but like furrywolf I think what is actually sexy about her is that she can speak for herself LOL
[13:32:08] <furrywolf> I have no idea who she is. :)
[13:34:13] <_methods> female comedian with a really annoying voice
[13:40:25] <furrywolf> bbl
[13:42:36] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Maybe in a 2am sorta way
[13:43:50] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: But I think Roseanne Bar is in that category too ;)
[13:44:19] <_methods> ..........
[13:44:27] <PetefromTn_> OMG
[13:44:27] <ssi> I concur with _methods
[13:44:46] <Jymmm> Nobody is ugly at 2am
[13:44:50] <_methods> Jymmm: you've finally crossed the line into furrywolf land
[13:44:57] <ssi> I disagree
[13:45:01] <ssi> plenty of people are ugly at 2am
[13:45:11] <Jymmm> then you're not drunk enough
[13:45:15] <_methods> heheh
[13:45:40] <ssi> there are some people for whom no sufficient beer goggles exist
[13:45:50] <PetefromTn_> Yeah there are some humans that no matter how much booze it just ain't gonna work for me...sorry
[13:46:10] <Jymmm> You say that now...
[13:50:51] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Enough booze and you may be unconscious :P
[13:51:05] <os1r1s> The ultimate beer goggles
[13:52:21] <os1r1s> In college they had a set of glasses at the health center that you could use to simulate the visual effects.
[13:54:53] <_methods> yeah i simulate drunkenness every night when i get home
[13:56:12] <PetefromTn_> ya just never know
[14:13:56] <ssi> bleh
[14:22:59] <Jymmm> You are otherwise available, traveling solo, drunk in the hotel lounge, 2am rolls around, maybe not the best of looks but overall good personality... you know you would.
[14:25:59] <_methods> lol
[14:28:32] <PetefromTn_> -\
[14:34:01] <PetefromTn_> oops
[14:58:06] <ssi> I've got 3pm coma syndrome real bad :(
[15:06:55] <PetefromTn_> meh jeez I was hoping that my roll around kart I use for tools when I work on the vehicles would be large enough to carry two coolers on top. It isn't...
[15:19:17] <Jymmm> The LARGE rubbermaid one should
[15:19:48] <PetefromTn_> don't have any rubbermaid... want to use these coolers.
[15:19:59] <Jymmm> rubbermaid CART
[15:20:05] <PetefromTn_> Oh
[15:22:28] <Jymmm> maybe http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubbermaid-Commercial-Products-40-in-x-24-in-2-Shelf-Heavy-Duty-Utility-Cart-with-4-in-Casters-FG9T6700BLA/202649292
[15:24:18] <PetefromTn_> hm.
[15:24:29] <PetefromTn_> gotta measure the bases of the coolers
[15:32:13] <XXCoder> interesting http://makezine.com/2015/07/08/bet-cant-find-use-11-million-1-gearbox/
[15:33:22] <Rab> Make:rs discover the harmonic drive?
[15:33:34] <_methods> no they invented it
[15:33:39] <_methods> it possibly has no uses though
[15:33:50] <_methods> /sarcasm
[15:35:07] <XXCoder> dunno
[15:35:15] <XXCoder> but yeah probably not
[15:35:29] <XXCoder> atomic printer maybe lol
[15:35:57] <ssi> "a grinder gears has only three parts... we has a yellow part, a green part, and a red part."
[15:36:08] <_methods> lol
[15:36:46] <malcom2073> Technically it's not a harmonic drive, only half of one
[15:36:53] <_methods> it's wizardry
[15:37:02] <_methods> i hope someone can find a use for this magic
[15:38:49] <Jymmm> 3000RPM *24hours / 11,000,000 = 2.5 Days = pump or water plants/crops
[15:40:02] <Jymmm> feed animals
[15:40:41] <XXCoder> those can be built with more regular stuff with timers
[15:40:48] <Jymmm> so?
[15:41:10] <Jymmm> it's a USELESS gearbox, remembr =)
[15:41:11] <XXCoder> things gets interesting if it was strong enough to run other way
[15:41:34] <malcom2073> In an amusing twist: mechies start swearing off harmonic drives on principle, thinking makers invented them.
[15:41:50] <Jymmm> I prefer the useless box myself... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAUmgE3WyM
[15:42:28] * MrSunshine ran 21.2km today =) hell yeah! =)
[15:42:37] <XXCoder> just read up on harmonic drive. interestng
[15:42:38] <_methods> good run
[15:43:08] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: But can you do it on your hands!
[15:43:23] <Jymmm> Hands shoes.... by Nike
[15:43:47] <MrSunshine> :P
[15:57:59] <cncjerry> cradek? I updated to linuxcnc 2.6.8 and that code still won't load. none of my code that links arcs as far as I can tell, will load. I get errors over .0005" is there a way to turn that off? I tried the tolerance_inch=.001 parm in the ini runder the RS274 section
[15:59:13] <cncjerry> any ideas?
[16:03:17] <cradek> did you share a code sample?
[16:04:49] <cncjerry> cradek, this G0 X.92676 Y1.06812 followed by G3 X.78055 Y1.16748 I-.123 J-.023 runs fine on Mach3 but linuxcnc 2.5 barfs
[16:05:44] <cradek> are those inches?
[16:06:46] <cncjerry> yes, inches
[16:07:05] <cncjerry> do I have to reboot the system?
[16:07:12] <cradek> no, I agree it fails to load
[16:07:31] <cncjerry> what is the error you see?
[16:07:32] <cradek> can you re-post it with the missing decimal places added? having 5 in XY and only 3 in IJ is weird.
[16:07:45] <cncjerry> the rest are zeros
[16:07:54] <cradek> well obviously not
[16:08:23] <cncjerry> no kidding. but I thought 2.6.8 allowed errors up to .001"?
[16:08:26] <ssi> arcs make my head hurt :(
[16:08:43] <cradek> can you just re-post?
[16:08:59] <cradek> Radius to end of arc differs from radius to start: start=(X0.9268,Y1.0681) center=(X0.8038,Y1.0451) end=(X0.7805,Y1.1675) r1=0.1251 r2=0.1245 abs_err=0.0005901 rel_err=0.4716%
[16:09:19] <cradek> I bet the real problem isn't the .0005 inches, it's the .5% difference
[16:09:25] <cncjerry> yes, that is the same error I get.
[16:09:37] <cncjerry> can I post here somehow?
[16:09:47] <cradek> no I mean postprocess
[16:09:54] <cradek> regenerate your gcode with the full precision
[16:10:36] <cncjerry> no, I have to change CATIA to use a mfg and fixture tolerance of 1e-5 and reformat. that fixes the problem as the decimals get added
[16:10:51] <cradek> sounds perfect
[16:11:23] <cncjerry> re-post instead of re-format. in catia the code is generated to APT first then a formatter reads the APT file and generates the code.
[16:11:25] <cradek> the gcode, for those following along at home: http://pastie.org/10282971
[16:11:46] <cradek> I may not know the correct lingo
[16:11:57] <cradek> but I mean regenerate it without IJ being rounded or truncated like this
[16:12:05] <cradek> whatever verb is appropriate
[16:12:15] <cncjerry> try loading this one G0 X.93750 Y1.04550 G3 X.81250 Y1.17050 I-.125 J0
[16:12:39] <cncjerry> no error on that one
[16:12:51] <cncjerry> same program, generated with more precision.
[16:14:03] <cradek> fwiw, 2.7.0~pre6 does load this gcode
[16:14:29] <cradek> in 2.7 we attempted to make changes that allow truncating OR rounding to 3 decimals in inch, or 2 in mm
[16:15:06] <cncjerry> can I upgrade from 2.6.8 to 2.7?
[16:15:31] <cradek> if you have 5 decmials in XY on purpose, because you need that precision, be aware that your arcs really aren't going to be in the right place unless you fix the gcode
[16:16:16] <cncjerry> no, here
[16:16:45] <cradek> 2.7 is unreleased, but you can run a prerelease version
[16:18:40] <cncjerry> sorry, the problem is that for some reason, setting the fixture and machining accuracey to anything less than 1e-5 gives me the error. I think it is the crazy way catia generates code (obviously), but the killer is I never had this problem with the 2.3 release. I went to 2.5 a while back and if I am cutting something without doing linked arcs it runs fine.
[16:19:15] <cradek> huh, I would be very surprised to learn this code runs on 2.3 but not 2.5
[16:22:15] <cncjerry> don't know what to say, there is a bug in my IMS generated post processor clearly since the code is wrong. It is not off enough to dictate a 90.1 or 91.1 error. I tried setting everything to .0001 precision without luck thinking there was a conflict between dimensioned units and gcode, no luck. I've run thousands of programs thru 2.3
[16:22:33] <XXCoder> whoa. http://frankieflood.blogspot.ca/2015/05/laser-cured-powder-coat-on-acrylic.html
[16:23:10] <cradek> I can't even build 2.3 on debian to try it, yuck
[16:23:35] <cradek> yeah, it's not an incorrect center mode, it's just the rounding or truncating that's doing it
[16:23:42] <cncjerry> is there any way to bypass this error in 2.6.8? where can I get 2.7 and as before can I upgrade or do I need to wipe?
[16:25:10] <cradek> 2.7 is still built for lucid
[16:25:32] <cradek> you can get it from the buildbot, since there is no release yet
[16:28:03] <cncjerry> cradek, pls try this code for me G0 X.92676 Y1.06812 G3 X.78055 Y1.16748 I-.123 J-.023
[16:28:48] <cncjerry> I went back, changed the dimensions to .001 and the fixture and machining accuracy to .001 and it generated more decimals
[16:29:31] <cradek> IJ are clearly still truncated
[16:30:27] <cradek> actually that's exactly the same as http://pastie.org/10282971
[16:30:36] <cradek> that's your original report that I typed in
[16:30:37] <cncjerry> yes, sorry, I was comparing to the the one that worked by mistake
[16:31:16] <Deejay> gn8
[16:32:50] <cncjerry> I have a later release of the formatter installing right now. just weird. I had 4 or 5 hd's fail all in a month plus the PC on this larger mill shorted the memory and smoked the MB. so I've been rebuilding trying to get back to where I was. can't seem to find what the delta is right now other than 2.5 vs 2.3 (now 2.6.8)
[16:33:09] <cncjerry> I have to go mod Axis again so that will take work as well.
[16:40:51] <jdh> why do you have to modify axis?
[16:41:04] <andypugh> Well, the new Jetway motherboard was so much easier than the Gigabyte that it just isn’t funny. Not only was there no need to update the BIOS, I didn’t even need to install an OS, it booted straight from the old SSD from the previous MB.
[16:41:50] <andypugh> And, as a bonus, my Touchscreen is now 1280x1024 rather than 1024x768. Which is very odd because I was certain that 1024x768 was the native resolution.
[16:41:53] <_methods> yeah i've had decent luck with jetways myself
[16:41:54] <PetefromTn_> no such animal LOL
[16:44:17] <andypugh> It’s also a super-thin MB with an onboard PSU (takes 12V power). Which means I can use a short PCI riser and make more space in the box. All in all I am happy, though it was about twice the price of the Gigabyte one.
[16:44:38] <skunksleep> Yay!
[16:44:59] <_methods> jetway makes great sff stuff
[16:45:13] <os1r1s> andypugh: Not worried about the onboard graphics?
[16:45:18] <_methods> well so far in my experience with them
[16:45:36] <andypugh> GLXgears runs at 100 fps, so that part is good too.
[16:46:08] <skunksleep> What kind of latency?
[16:47:20] <andypugh> About 11k. It went up to 30k briefly doing “something” but this is a Mesa setup, so I am not too worried.
[16:47:49] <andypugh> Jetway JNF9C-2800 if anyone is interested.
[16:48:27] <skunksleep> Nice
[16:48:40] <cncjerry> I modify axis as I like certain control key combinations to do things. I think some of it was added in over the years like contr+arrows to do incremental jogs.
[16:50:37] <cncjerry> this time I am going to add more buttons as well for homing at .1" offsets within each quadrant.
[16:56:02] <os1r1s> andypugh: So when using a mesa card, what level of jitter becomes an issue for the base thread?
[16:58:18] <Jymmm> In the 11th hour, uhual cancels our reservation
[16:58:35] <Jymmm> I'll NEVER do business with the again.
[16:59:15] <malcom2073> Jymmm: I've heard horror stories of uhaul canceling orders and not telling people, and often just plain not having the vehicle available when promised
[16:59:34] <Jymmm> You would think that reseving a 26ft truck and auto transport they would take care of the logistics, but I've even called corporate offices and no help
[17:00:26] <_methods> ouch that sux
[17:00:42] <Jymmm> malcom2073: They offered $100 discount.... I dont' want a discount, I want what I reseved and you accepted my CC number
[17:01:45] <Rab> Wonder if their scheduling counts on quick turnaround of the trucks, and the last renter had an accident or hasn't showed up.
[17:01:46] <malcom2073> Yeah, they're pretty shitty about it
[17:02:09] <malcom2073> Rab: I swear I think they overbook counting on people canceling
[17:04:07] <Jymmm> Rab: Maybe so, but their ONLY job is logistics. They should have contingency for that AND courtesy to bring a truck 100 miles in
[17:24:18] <Roguish> Hey all. Something up (or down) with the web site, linuxcnc.org. I get an Error 403 Forbidden Zone.
[17:24:55] <andypugh> Yes, the web site has gone down.
[17:25:23] <andypugh> The chaps are on it.
[17:25:45] <Roguish> Ok , good deal.
[17:27:25] <SWPLinux> if by "on it" you mean "we know what has to be done" :)
[17:27:34] <andypugh> Top Tip! To check if your new motherboard is working do _not_ press the tool release button when you have your Renishaw probe mounted.
[17:28:33] <andypugh> Apparently the three little hardened steel rods inside the probe _and_ the ceramic stylus can all snap simultaneously :-(
[17:29:22] <SWPLinux> andypugh: I guess they got the design right, so all the parts have even wear and all ...
[17:29:34] <andypugh> Hmm…
[17:30:44] <andypugh> It looks like that was a $500 mistake, looking at eBay prices.
[17:31:34] <andypugh> (though some of them are listed at >$2000!)
[17:32:47] <andypugh> (Actually, I “fixed” it as the rods are still basically long enough to work if re-inserted.)
[17:34:16] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[17:34:48] <SWPLinux> hiJymmmmmmmmmmmm
[17:35:04] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: How ya doin?! long time
[17:35:32] <SWPLinux> tired, busy, waiting for Sharon to pick me up at the airport so I can join her visiting her family
[17:36:13] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Tell her I said HI! So where you at?
[17:36:38] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: continent is fine
[17:36:40] <SWPLinux> will do. I'm in Green Bay, Wisconsin, about to head for Manitowo.
[17:36:49] <SWPLinux> +c
[17:37:03] <SWPLinux> Manitowoc (and I can't evn blame stupid autocorrect for that one)
[17:37:06] <SWPLinux> gah
[17:37:17] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: ah WI, skunksleep neck of the woods
[17:37:25] <SWPLinux> indeed
[17:37:57] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: What you been up to, stil working on 360 stuff?
[17:38:50] <SWPLinux> I wonder what my password is here
[17:39:12] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: password123
[17:39:14] <SWPLinux> Yes, some. We did an array for Nikon at CES, that was pretty cool
[17:39:27] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: Oh, thanks. I couldn't remember if it was 123 or 321
[17:39:48] <Jymmm> Nice, maybe they'll sponsor you now by the palletes
[17:39:51] <Jymmm> plural
[17:40:19] <Jymmm> if so, I'm meet you in any dark alley of your choosing ;)
[17:40:37] <Jymmm> just leaves thr tuck lights on
[17:40:40] <Jymmm> truck
[17:40:50] <SWPLinux> heh
[17:41:01] <SWPLinux> I did get a D750 out of the deal, so that was nice
[17:41:18] <Jymmm> Really? From nikon?
[17:41:25] <SWPLinux> yep
[17:41:31] <Jymmm> that works =)
[17:41:42] <SWPLinux> the array was 48 of them, so what's another 2% or so :)
[17:41:49] <Jymmm> lol
[17:42:05] <Jymmm> dont you usually do 36?
[17:42:22] <SWPLinux> it's a cool camera. I set it up to do a time lapse one night when the Aurora Borealis was supposed to be visible (didn't get any good shots though)
[17:42:44] <SWPLinux> the battery wasn't full, I had it shooting 1000 frames over 3 hours or so, and that didn't drain the battery
[17:42:56] <Jymmm> nice
[17:43:34] <SWPLinux> 36 for the ones in museums, usually 48 for award shows, and as little as 12 for things like the Color Run or other "activations"
[17:43:43] <Jymmm> ah
[17:44:04] <Jymmm> wait till you get to do 180 =)
[17:44:36] <SWPLinux> you can also shoot time lapse video, I did a 5-hour shoot of my back yard at 1 frame every 3 seconds. That did kill the battery, but I ended up with a 2-minute HD video instead of 1000 images ...
[17:44:47] <SWPLinux> well, we have done 360 before :)
[17:44:59] <Jymmm> 360 cameras??????????????????????
[17:45:22] <SWPLinux> we also have the Guiness record for the most cameras used to shoot a live performance (I think it was 212 cameras, at a Creed concert)
[17:45:24] <SWPLinux> yep
[17:45:38] <Jymmm> Daaaaaaaamn
[17:46:04] <SWPLinux> you can probably see the commercials, they were done with film cameras (2 hours to reload with 3 people doing it :) ), in the mid-'90s
[17:46:24] <Jymmm> ah
[17:47:29] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: PM
[17:48:02] <SWPLinux> yep
[17:48:11] <SWPLinux> I'll have to pop on again later - my ride is here :)
[17:48:45] <SWPLinux> see you all later
[17:48:50] <SWPLinux> (maybe much later :) )
[18:01:59] <greg> What do you guys get for voltage at your service? My outlets run ~126/252VAC lately, just barely within spec.
[18:02:29] <greg> Chicago suburbs
[18:09:54] <CaptHindsight> greg: it might vary by the time of day and weather conditions
[18:10:20] <CaptHindsight> hot humid 5-6pm has the most demand
[18:11:02] <CaptHindsight> and goo ol ComEd thinks that too much demand for old equipment is "an act of god"
[18:11:45] <CaptHindsight> too much meaning they don't want to add or upgrade equipment until they are forced or run out of excuses
[18:12:37] <CaptHindsight> greg: do you have Delta? 120/240 vs Wye 120/208?
[18:17:47] <os1r1s> Are brushless or brushed servos better?
[18:20:18] <jdh> than steppers, yes.
[18:25:36] <os1r1s> jdh: brushed servos or brushless servos I mean
[18:26:23] <jdh> I know.
[18:31:53] <CaptHindsight> how about closed loop steppers vs brushed servos for positioning
[18:32:59] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbNSKct0SJI Stepper closed loop with Emc2
[18:39:46] <CaptHindsight> is http://www.linuxcnc.org/ down?
[18:41:10] <malcom2073> Forbidden 403 here
[18:42:02] <CaptHindsight> oh the devs already know
[18:43:20] <jdh> given a choice, and some else paying, I would get brushless
[18:43:36] <jdh> other than that, it would depend on what was available for what price.
[18:43:56] <CaptHindsight> heh, especially the someone else paying part
[18:45:05] <blockh34d> is linuxcnc compatabile with raspberry pi?
[18:45:12] <jdh> we have been getting some integrated stepper/encoder/drive things at work.
[18:45:40] <blockh34d> that sounds neat jdh what type of price range are those?
[18:45:46] <CaptHindsight> blockh34d: yes and no
[18:46:04] <jdh> $400-$600ish each
[18:46:16] <blockh34d> jdh: ah fun, enjoy
[18:46:20] <CaptHindsight> there is no image to copy and load onto a RPi
[18:46:56] <CaptHindsight> but you could build it all and possibly use SPI to connect to an FPGA
[18:47:03] <blockh34d> would i need to cross compile it or can i do the whole build process on rpi?
[18:47:23] <CaptHindsight> dunno, never tried the RPi
[18:47:24] <blockh34d> i havent setup cross complation yet i'm such a slacker
[18:47:46] <blockh34d> if i used spi would i be bottlenecked by it?
[18:48:23] <CaptHindsight> someone had SPI with FPGA working with a Samsung ARM soc
[18:48:42] <blockh34d> interesting
[18:49:04] <CaptHindsight> the HM2_eth driver loads on ARM but it hasn't been tested
[18:49:05] <blockh34d> i feel like i would probably just go with beagleboard(bone?)(black? id unno)
[18:49:13] <blockh34d> i hear that has a more developed build already?
[18:49:25] <CaptHindsight> we were testing the cubie2 again
[18:49:33] <blockh34d> seems like people are already using linuxcnc on bbb
[18:49:41] <blockh34d> i have not tried cubie2
[18:49:43] <CaptHindsight> and will be trying an imx6 soon
[18:49:45] <blockh34d> sounds neat
[18:49:56] <blockh34d> my goal is ultimately 8axes
[18:50:03] <blockh34d> well 5axes and 3extruders
[18:50:05] <blockh34d> weird 3dp
[18:50:08] <CaptHindsight> ethernet has to be integrated and not over USB
[18:50:25] <blockh34d> gotcha well there goes rpi then
[18:50:47] <CaptHindsight> yeah don't recall whats integrated on the RPi
[18:50:50] <blockh34d> pretty sure its all through usb on rpi even the onboard ethernet is still weirdly through the usb? or same bus or something
[18:50:59] <blockh34d> there is a ethernet but i think it basically uses the usb
[18:51:16] <CaptHindsight> there is a fork of Linuxcnc called machinekit that runs on the BBB
[18:51:21] <blockh34d> i'm not sure its been a while since i bothered to suss it all out
[18:51:29] <CaptHindsight> but the GUI is slow
[18:51:37] <blockh34d> yes thats what i heard about
[18:51:39] <blockh34d> sounds promising
[18:51:43] <blockh34d> how slow?
[18:51:57] <CaptHindsight> maybe a few frames per second
[18:51:58] <blockh34d> the smoothieboard we've been working with updates 1 time per second
[18:52:02] <blockh34d> its stupidly slow
[18:52:09] <blockh34d> the lcd that is
[18:52:21] <CaptHindsight> well that's a M4
[18:52:28] <blockh34d> i heard panelduo's are nice cause they offload all the panel logic and overhead
[18:52:31] <CaptHindsight> lpc or stm23
[18:52:34] <blockh34d> lpc
[18:53:09] <blockh34d> yah i dont think smoothieware is going to cut it
[18:53:27] <blockh34d> i've been trying to hack in my extra axes and its actually gone fine except in actually usage it seems to choke on gcode about 20-k in
[18:53:33] <CaptHindsight> old PC's are cheap and run multiaxis cnc just fine
[18:53:53] <blockh34d> some weird block take/release scheme, its gotten twisted around since i added more steppers to its update ccyle
[18:54:07] <blockh34d> yah but this is for a client thats trying to develop a commercial product
[18:54:16] <blockh34d> so they want to integrate all this controller stuff embedded style
[18:54:30] <blockh34d> although i do think it would be nice to allow the option of using that type of control
[18:54:34] <blockh34d> since it would handle it well
[18:54:35] <_methods> then they should use commercial hardware
[18:54:39] <CaptHindsight> I wouldn't use the pooopieboard
[18:54:58] <blockh34d> CaptHindsight: where were you two weeks ago you could have saved me the hassle
[18:55:26] <CaptHindsight> i though I had already warned everyone
[18:55:36] <blockh34d> ah well so i think machinekit plus bbb sounds solid
[18:55:50] <_methods> for a commercial product?
[18:55:58] <blockh34d> yah ultimately
[18:56:01] <CaptHindsight> if you don't need the GUI
[18:56:25] <CaptHindsight> industrial commercial or consumer commercial?
[18:56:34] <blockh34d> _methods: you mentioned better sourced parts, do you have and recommendations?
[18:56:42] <blockh34d> its hard to say its kinda unique
[18:56:43] <CaptHindsight> the BBB is a toy
[18:56:46] <blockh34d> some sorta 3 carriage thing
[18:56:57] <malcom2073> The BBB works within its limitations
[18:57:02] <blockh34d> hmm so... odroid u3 maybe?
[18:57:10] <blockh34d> jetson tk-1?
[18:57:12] <CaptHindsight> the BBB is not an industrial board
[18:57:13] <blockh34d> whats it take
[18:57:17] <CaptHindsight> it's a dev board
[18:57:19] <malcom2073> I use it, but for a 3d printer, so my opinion is often considered invalid :-P
[18:57:33] <blockh34d> malcom2073: this is for a 3d printer though
[18:57:39] <malcom2073> Sshhhhhh
[18:57:40] <blockh34d> so maybe we're both invalid
[18:57:41] <malcom2073> don't mention that here ;)
[18:57:44] <blockh34d> haha
[18:57:47] <blockh34d> ok no its lasers
[18:57:50] <blockh34d> lots of lasers.
[18:57:53] <malcom2073> K lasers.
[18:58:12] <blockh34d> yah bbb does seem a bit toy like
[18:58:19] <malcom2073> Nah my main complaint with the BBB/machinekit is the fact that Axis tends to lock up, causing the machine to continue moving after you release a jog button on occasion.
[18:58:21] <CaptHindsight> 3d printers are fine, it's just glorified glue guns that people have issues with
[18:58:27] <malcom2073> Something about video taking over interrupts
[18:58:45] <blockh34d> malcom2073: that sounds pretty brutal
[18:58:52] <blockh34d> malcom2073: how often does that pop up?
[18:59:06] <CaptHindsight> blockh34d: why ARM?
[18:59:07] <malcom2073> blockh34d: For me, pretty often, but I've been told "That doesn't happen", so meh
[18:59:07] <malcom2073> :-P
[18:59:08] <blockh34d> especially during gcode prints
[18:59:13] <malcom2073> Never during gcode
[18:59:14] <malcom2073> only during jogs
[18:59:24] <blockh34d> hmm well that might be mangable then
[18:59:40] <blockh34d> CaptHindsight: doesnt have to be i'm sure they're flexible i think they're more goal oriented
[18:59:54] <blockh34d> whats it going to take to make 5 axes + 3 extruders happen in an embedded way?
[18:59:58] <blockh34d> professionally
[19:00:01] <malcom2073> Tbh I'm going to be putting a mesaboard + small x86PC on it soon
[19:00:04] <CaptHindsight> why do large machine builders use PC's?
[19:00:06] <malcom2073> I'm tired of the video being crap/laggy.
[19:00:24] <_methods> or plc's lol
[19:00:29] <blockh34d> malcom2073: what kind of fps do you get?
[19:00:39] <zeeshan-laptop> @
[19:01:03] <malcom2073> Unknown, I don't have any way to measure FPS, but it's just bad. Throw machinekit on a BBB, start up axis, and play around, you'll see.
[19:01:04] <blockh34d> CaptHindsight: yeah i guess they're going more for consumer level? i'm not really sure
[19:01:18] <blockh34d> CaptHindsight: just trying to work within the specs they've provided
[19:01:52] <blockh34d> yah it sounds like micro-atx style pc would be better
[19:02:00] <CaptHindsight> battery powered portable printer?
[19:02:07] <CaptHindsight> solar powered?
[19:02:09] <blockh34d> but why would it need 3 heads?
[19:02:26] <CaptHindsight> different materials
[19:02:40] <blockh34d> i feel like the 3 carriages thing is some weird substance / procedural thing like maybe they're printing diodes and each of those is a different type of doped filament? i dunno
[19:02:49] <blockh34d> still could just put multiple extruders on one carriage though
[19:03:01] <blockh34d> they put them on seperate ones so they could prime in between
[19:04:01] <blockh34d> its a bit mysterious to me obviously but i dont really need to know everything about it
[19:04:29] <CaptHindsight> maybe they don't know what they are doing
[19:04:36] <CaptHindsight> maybe they just have money
[19:04:44] <blockh34d> its actually already built and functional with basic ramps marlin/sprinter etc stuff and some relay based cheating to switch carriage motors
[19:04:45] <CaptHindsight> pretty common
[19:04:57] <blockh34d> i dunno i guess its possible but they make a really nice extruder
[19:05:11] <CaptHindsight> take about brute force vs elegance
[19:05:20] <blockh34d> and their hardware is always very legit
[19:05:48] <blockh34d> they made some crazy printer that prints solid glass
[19:06:01] <blockh34d> uses a rotary mounted torch to keep it in flames constantly
[19:06:11] <blockh34d> like a flame thrower almost its pretty intense
[19:06:19] <CaptHindsight> whats the budget for the BOM?
[19:06:31] <blockh34d> they've been pretty flexible about that
[19:06:35] <CaptHindsight> controller + drives + motors?
[19:06:39] <blockh34d> i feel like quality and size is more of a concern
[19:06:53] <blockh34d> i dont really understand the embedded thing
[19:06:59] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a hobby
[19:07:16] <blockh34d> maybe hobbiests are the target market?
[19:07:30] <blockh34d> hobbyist?
[19:07:32] <blockh34d> whatever
[19:07:38] <CaptHindsight> sounds like it
[19:07:53] <CaptHindsight> use the pooopieboard then
[19:07:59] <_methods> lol
[19:08:02] <blockh34d> yah cause they have the space and resources to not need the embedded thign so its some sort of aspect of this thing i guess
[19:08:15] <blockh34d> its kinda hacky to begin with though
[19:08:21] <blockh34d> and then my changes are not exactly elegant
[19:08:47] <_methods> have you tried #reprap
[19:08:47] <blockh34d> just makes me feel like the results are not going to be as good as if i used a more filled out and developed n-axis system like linuxcnc
[19:08:55] <blockh34d> oh yah i'm there now
[19:08:56] <_methods> that room is full of some real geniuses
[19:09:04] <blockh34d> thats true
[19:09:06] <_methods> they should be able to help you
[19:09:10] <blockh34d> not really
[19:09:12] <CaptHindsight> geeeneuses
[19:09:15] <blockh34d> they led me to poopieboard.
[19:10:03] <CaptHindsight> did his name begin with an A?
[19:10:18] <blockh34d> lol no actually they were talking to the client before me
[19:10:29] <blockh34d> client was all sold on smoothieboards and simplify3d for the whole thing
[19:10:47] <blockh34d> neither would have really been my first choice
[19:11:03] <malcom2073> s3d is fairly awesome though, albiet silly expensive
[19:11:11] <blockh34d> although smoothieboards have a little bit going for them
[19:11:19] <blockh34d> i havent really cared much for it yet
[19:11:27] <blockh34d> maybe i just need to try it more, i'm kinda picky
[19:11:32] <blockh34d> cura just did a whole thing
[19:11:33] <malcom2073> I tried smoothieboard,. I hear it works well for repraps, but can't run ballscrew printers
[19:11:37] <blockh34d> a very makerbot sort of thing
[19:11:55] <blockh34d> 15.06 is the version that jumped the shark
[19:12:31] <blockh34d> i hope daid brings back multiple extruder support and non-ultimaker printer support.
[19:13:03] <blockh34d> hey ok aside from all my other questions about weird 5axes 3dps... i want to make a cnc
[19:13:15] <blockh34d> just a basic, functional, entry level cnc and i'm totally fine with using a pc for it
[19:13:36] <blockh34d> i have a lot of nemas around already, aside from that what would i need, a mesaboard of some sort and linuxcnc?
[19:13:45] <malcom2073> You can get by without mesaboard
[19:13:45] <_methods> yeah
[19:13:57] <malcom2073> If your PC has a parallel port
[19:13:58] <blockh34d> malcom2073: i like the sound of that, hows that work?
[19:14:02] <_methods> i've got a couple mills using cheap ass chinese bobs
[19:14:03] <blockh34d> i'm sure i can find one that does
[19:14:16] <blockh34d> bobs?
[19:14:20] <blockh34d> i dont know that term
[19:14:23] <_methods> breakout board
[19:14:27] <blockh34d> oh i see
[19:14:32] <malcom2073> yeah parallel port -> breakout board -> stepper driver ->stepper
[19:14:55] <blockh34d> like a4798's or whatever the number is?
[19:15:07] <blockh34d> i already have a 3 channel board of that sort designed maybe i could just modify it
[19:15:18] <blockh34d> it was a daughterboard to smoothieboard to add more channels
[19:15:48] <blockh34d> so i would need a bob to plug into that, and the computer, which is running linuxcnc and i'm ready to rock eh
[19:15:51] <malcom2073> TB6600's are like $13 per axis
[19:15:56] <blockh34d> suggested build volumes for a first time?
[19:16:03] <malcom2073> Or yeah if you already have something
[19:16:07] <blockh34d> TB6600's, check gonna jot that down
[19:16:09] <malcom2073> What are you trying to do?
[19:16:14] <malcom2073> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Single-Axis-TB6600-4-5A-Two-Phase-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-/261956838201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cfdd82339
[19:16:18] <blockh34d> hmm i guess cut basic materials
[19:16:25] <blockh34d> wood acrylic maybe some alum
[19:16:26] <malcom2073> I have a couple of those, they're not bad. Unknown how long they last
[19:16:35] <malcom2073> If you stick with wood/acrylic, it makes the machine much easier to build
[19:16:46] <blockh34d> interesting
[19:16:56] <malcom2073> Are you looking to design your own?
[19:16:56] <blockh34d> some metal working would really be nice though
[19:17:11] <blockh34d> how much does it add to the process in terms of time/money expense, thoughts on that
[19:17:12] <malcom2073> Mill or router?
[19:17:24] <blockh34d> um
[19:17:25] <malcom2073> To design your own? It adds a lot, especially with trial/error :-P
[19:17:32] <blockh34d> i am really bad with terms can you maybe help me out here
[19:17:36] <blockh34d> whats the difference
[19:17:43] <malcom2073> routers typically cut things out of sheets of material
[19:17:50] <blockh34d> malcom2073: no, price difference of working with metals vs non metals
[19:17:52] <malcom2073> larger horizontal envelope in relation to vertical
[19:17:57] <blockh34d> soft metals anyways
[19:17:58] <blockh34d> alum
[19:18:02] <blockh34d> maybe brass
[19:18:14] <malcom2073> Eh... it means you have to make it a lot more sturdy
[19:18:25] <blockh34d> ok thats what i'm trying to do
[19:18:30] <blockh34d> intricate cut outlines from sheet material
[19:18:35] <blockh34d> and it doesnt have to be metal
[19:18:39] <blockh34d> screw metal then
[19:18:40] <blockh34d> for first time
[19:18:44] <blockh34d> f-it, whatever
[19:18:47] <malcom2073> Actually... hvave you seen the 6040's?
[19:18:49] <blockh34d> i think i'll be doing more HDPE anyways
[19:18:52] <blockh34d> no
[19:19:17] <malcom2073> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6040-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-ENGRAVING-MACHINE-CUTTER-1605-BALLSCREW-4-AXIS-/291054639648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c4355a20
[19:19:32] <malcom2073> Take that, replace stepper drivers/control system with PC/linuxcnc/new drivers
[19:19:44] <malcom2073> It can cut sheet aluminum slowly
[19:20:25] <blockh34d> interesting
[19:20:32] <blockh34d> little more than i was trying to spend
[19:20:40] <CaptHindsight> has anyone found a small ballscrew router like the 6040's that don't need rebuilding and dialing in right out of the box?
[19:20:40] <blockh34d> i guess metal working doesnt come cheap
[19:21:28] <_methods> CaptHindsight: i've not found one
[19:21:29] <malcom2073> blockh34d: You could do one of these: http://www.shapeoko.com/
[19:21:37] <_methods> maybe cncrouter parts machines
[19:21:39] <malcom2073> I hear they can do sheet metal, but I don't believe it
[19:21:52] <_methods> they can't
[19:22:04] <_methods> unless you replace everything
[19:22:17] <blockh34d> what about water jets
[19:22:20] <_methods> lol
[19:22:24] <malcom2073> ugh their website sucks haha
[19:22:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.shapeoko.com/frimg/iso.jpg pretty flimsy
[19:22:29] <blockh34d> insanely expensive?
[19:22:35] <blockh34d> sounds like it would be
[19:22:45] <_methods> water jets are very dangerous
[19:22:52] <_methods> high pressure water is bad for you
[19:22:53] <malcom2073> The old shapeokos looked sturdier
[19:23:01] <CaptHindsight> ok for a hot melt materials deposition printer
[19:23:14] * SpeedEvil imagines a 3d printer+water-jet cutter
[19:23:21] <SpeedEvil> What could possibly go wrong?
[19:23:30] <blockh34d> what about plasma cutter?
[19:23:33] <_methods> esab built a plasma waterjet
[19:23:38] <_methods> what a POS
[19:23:44] <blockh34d> lol
[19:23:45] <malcom2073> Man what happened to the old makerslide machines
[19:23:48] <malcom2073> what were they called?
[19:23:49] <_methods> they rack would wear out in like a year
[19:23:53] <CaptHindsight> _methods: "maybe cncrouter parts machines" is that a brand?
[19:23:58] <_methods> all the waterjet abrasives
[19:24:02] <_methods> yeah
[19:24:07] <_methods> cncrouterparts.com i think
[19:24:26] <_methods> they have like 2'x4' tables
[19:24:27] <malcom2073> There was a $600 machine somewhere
[19:24:34] <blockh34d> what about just some cheap-o plasma cutter on a corexy basically
[19:24:42] <blockh34d> they could be dirty cuts
[19:24:44] <_methods> out of all the kit builds they seem to be alright
[19:24:46] <blockh34d> i can deal with that
[19:24:54] <blockh34d> for now anyways
[19:25:00] <CaptHindsight> I'm looking for an off the shelf 3-axis stage for non-contact deposition with 10um repeatability
[19:25:13] <_methods> ah
[19:25:13] <Jymmm> I have a gorilla rack http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2658820 It can be configured for 72" tall or 4x4x3 or 2x8x3, the shelves are 1/2" partical board. and heavier than fuck. Any suggested to a light shelf replacement instead of the particalr board?
[19:25:28] <CaptHindsight> and not by Parker, Newport, Aerotek etc
[19:25:28] <_methods> CaptHindsight: you're probably going to have to design yhour own fo rthat
[19:25:33] <_methods> what size foot print
[19:25:39] <blockh34d> Jymmm: starboard, like nautical carpentry board, its hdpe and crazy strong
[19:25:45] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yeah, just looking again
[19:25:54] <Jymmm> blockh34d: never heard of it?
[19:26:00] <_methods> working envelope?
[19:26:03] <CaptHindsight> _methods: 10 x 12"
[19:26:10] <_methods> oh little guy
[19:26:12] <CaptHindsight> x 3-4" Z
[19:26:12] <blockh34d> Jymmm: HDPE is high density poly ethelene, milk jugs basically
[19:26:14] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[19:26:18] <blockh34d> crazy strong
[19:26:33] <Jymmm> blockh34d: I mean starbaord. I know polymers =)
[19:26:34] <blockh34d> Jymmm: also i tried some PVC board recently for some home repairs it was pretty nice but had a bit of flex
[19:27:02] <blockh34d> Jymmm: oh cool, yah maybe theres a better brand name to shop for locally... i would aim for nautical carpentry type work from what i hear thats where its used
[19:27:32] <Jymmm> blockh34d: Oh fuck that. You meanton "Marine" the price get digits added =)
[19:27:37] <blockh34d> with a 90 degree fold at the edges i bet it'd be pretty ridgid
[19:27:42] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I rebuilt some of these last year http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl3040-cnc
[19:28:01] <Jymmm> blockh34d: but thank you anyway
[19:28:08] <blockh34d> Jymmm: true... i hope to make my own hotform/hotroller way to make sheet hdpe soon from scavenged supplies
[19:28:09] <CaptHindsight> _methods: since the supplier is local, but by the time you're done you might as well have started from scratch
[19:28:11] <_methods> yeah i remember
[19:28:20] <blockh34d> Jymmm: no problem it happens tobe on my mind anyways
[19:28:31] <_methods> yeah for your accuracy you're probably better off just designing your own
[19:28:31] <CaptHindsight> _methods: everything is just half-assed
[19:28:39] <_methods> off a ballscrew stage
[19:28:45] <blockh34d> my goal here with cnc is actually to make sheets of this hdpe from milk jugs mostly, of even thickness, and then cut it with a cnc into useful stuff
[19:28:57] <Jymmm> blockh34d: I'll add cross members and 1/8" fiberboard the dark brown stuff I can't recall the name
[19:28:58] <_methods> should be pretty easy to find a 10x12 stage for that
[19:29:06] <blockh34d> Jymmm: MDF
[19:29:09] <Jymmm> no
[19:29:09] <blockh34d> ?
[19:29:16] <Jymmm> DARK brown
[19:29:22] <Jymmm> used for bench tops
[19:29:28] <blockh34d> oh ok
[19:29:28] <Jymmm> MUST be pre drilled
[19:29:33] <Jymmm> super dense
[19:29:42] <blockh34d> i should check that out
[19:30:11] <blockh34d> maybe you could get cheaper / thicker sheet hdpe buying it as cutting boards for industrial kitchens
[19:30:11] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: Impregnated with ...
[19:30:17] <blockh34d> that comes in long stock
[19:30:18] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yeah, just looking for something that might have popped up on the market recently
[19:30:21] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: I know this
[19:30:38] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: yeah, the name always slips me mind
[19:30:52] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: It's used for horseboxes and stuff
[19:31:09] <SpeedEvil> As it is actually waterproof
[19:31:21] <Jymmm> or almost is
[19:31:29] <_methods> the only thing i can think of is maybe repurposing something a legitimate company like roland makes or something
[19:31:50] <_methods> probably would be overly expensive thouhg
[19:32:20] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yeah, too pricey for what you get to start with
[19:32:24] <blockh34d> impregnated paper backer?
[19:32:49] <Jymmm> not masonite
[19:32:54] <CaptHindsight> _methods: for inkjet you don't even need a ballscrew
[19:33:19] <Jymmm> Yeha masonite
[19:33:24] <CaptHindsight> _methods: whipping around a 12oz printhead is pretty easy
[19:33:24] <_methods> ah i thought you wanted ballscrews on it
[19:33:25] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: masonite
[19:33:39] <SpeedEvil> That's the US name I think
[19:34:02] <Jymmm> Super dense http://totalimage.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/masonite.jpg
[19:34:09] <_methods> yeah i'd whip up some linear way belt drive table then
[19:34:30] <blockh34d> what is a good cnc design for me to make? seems like enough vslot rail and 90's would just about do it
[19:34:50] <blockh34d> i guess its all about precision and speed, figure i'm shooting kinda low there
[19:34:54] <blockh34d> keep it cheap and easy etc
[19:35:12] <blockh34d> i would rather some sort of metal frame though
[19:35:24] <alex4nder> blockh34d: you in the US?
[19:35:27] <blockh34d> yes
[19:35:28] <CaptHindsight> _methods: the oriental motor 0.36° and 0.72° steppers are lower in price now
[19:35:29] <blockh34d> ohio
[19:35:36] <alex4nder> blockh34d: buy a taig, or something used
[19:35:52] <malcom2073> Go to auctions
[19:35:56] <alex4nder> yah
[19:35:58] <malcom2073> I got a full size knee mill for $350
[19:36:06] <blockh34d> well i think it would be better for me to build this
[19:36:11] <Jymmm> http://www.lowes.com/pd_15483-46498-SS1254825_0__?productId=3014304
[19:36:13] <malcom2073> My dad got his for... well... he actually got paid to take his by the time he sold the other stuff heh
[19:36:16] <blockh34d> i have further goals and they will require that i be able to build this device
[19:36:22] <blockh34d> ...before i can put legs on it and AI
[19:36:34] <blockh34d> hexapod mounted
[19:36:37] <Jymmm> comes in 1/8" sheets
[19:36:53] <Jymmm> GREAT for worlbench tops
[19:37:03] <Jymmm> workbench*
[19:37:06] <blockh34d> i figure most of a hexapod frame / basic mechanicals could be cut out of sheet HDPE
[19:37:14] <blockh34d> and it would probably be pretty nice for a non-combat robot
[19:37:47] <Jymmm> blockh34d: HDPE needs spacial struture to have an strength to it
[19:37:49] <blockh34d> useless in hostility, it would melt under fire, but soft edged and nontoxic for being around people
[19:38:04] <blockh34d> Jymmm: yes i've been working with it here some in a more macgyverish way
[19:38:19] <blockh34d> i melt it into sheets, cut it inot shapes and bend it at the edges i need rigid
[19:38:26] <blockh34d> i made a nice tripod like this
[19:38:38] <blockh34d> it folds up nice and is pretty functional
[19:38:46] <Jymmm> k
[19:38:58] <blockh34d> i think i could make some nice easels liek this too
[19:39:23] <blockh34d> i ahve a design for a compact artists easel i think its pretty nice, would be really sharp precision cut
[19:39:23] <Jymmm> If you have the setup to thermoform it, then it's great to sork with
[19:39:36] <blockh34d> thats actually why i wanted to cut metal
[19:39:42] <blockh34d> i figured thats how i would make forms to melt it into
[19:39:51] <blockh34d> i would like to make HDPE glasses
[19:39:55] <blockh34d> cheaply and give them away
[19:39:58] <Jymmm> frames?
[19:40:02] <blockh34d> yes just the frames
[19:40:08] <_methods> shot glasses
[19:40:10] <blockh34d> shouldnt be too hard
[19:40:12] <Jymmm> use wood molds
[19:40:18] <blockh34d> oh really?
[19:40:25] <blockh34d> wow i would not have guessed that'd be viable
[19:40:25] <Jymmm> MDF molds even
[19:40:32] <blockh34d> interesting
[19:40:44] <blockh34d> how reusable are they?
[19:40:50] <Jymmm> wood is a thermal insulator, take lots of heat
[19:40:58] <blockh34d> i'd like something i could basically put into production use
[19:41:06] <Jymmm> not sure how easy the release would be though =)
[19:41:14] <blockh34d> yeah seems like it could be an issue
[19:41:23] <blockh34d> nylon prints onto mdf with a strong bond
[19:41:34] <blockh34d> makes me think hdpe might not want to let go very easily in similar ocnditions
[19:41:43] <blockh34d> but whatever, make a fancy mold
[19:41:49] <Jymmm> but nylon isn't PE which sbonds to nothing =)
[19:41:51] <blockh34d> something that breaks apart into little parts or something i dunno
[19:41:57] <blockh34d> oh cool
[19:42:13] <blockh34d> i made my current glasses out of printed nylon
[19:42:25] <blockh34d> the frames that is, my old ones broke and i got tired of shitty delicate frames
[19:42:25] <Jymmm> ut for what you're talking about, I'd look at mold injection
[19:42:38] <blockh34d> interesting
[19:42:50] <blockh34d> well it'd be a whole new world of technology to get into
[19:42:52] <Jymmm> they would cost you $0.005/ea after the $10K mold was made =)
[19:43:07] <blockh34d> could i mill my own mold with the right cnc?
[19:43:20] <blockh34d> is that the right terms?
[19:43:22] <Jymmm> and make your own injection machine too
[19:43:28] <blockh34d> i would mill a mold and route outlines?
[19:43:35] <Tom_itx> yeah a dude in seattle made one
[19:43:37] <blockh34d> oh sweet
[19:43:49] <blockh34d> yah i've seen some filament maker designs
[19:43:57] <Jymmm> as I understand mold injection, there's more to it than like (for exmplae) a cnadle wax mold
[19:44:07] <blockh34d> seems similar to what a high pressure injector might be like, i dunno
[19:44:21] <Jymmm> BUT... Maybe you can get a candy mold maker to do it for you.
[19:44:23] <Tom_itx> http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mold_mach_137.htm
[19:44:30] <_methods> make mold, inject plastic, remove part, make $$$$$$
[19:44:32] <_methods> it's simple
[19:44:47] <blockh34d> the filament makers use a long drill bet inside near walled space thatgrabs the stock and pushes it towards the heat source/tube
[19:44:48] <Jymmm> so simple china does it all the time
[19:45:02] <blockh34d> my goals are less commercial
[19:45:06] <blockh34d> but similar in scale
[19:45:09] <_methods> it's like an atm machine in your garage
[19:45:11] <Tom_itx> what has china done on it's own?
[19:45:15] <Tom_itx> other than copy
[19:45:19] <blockh34d> i'd like to make kickstarter style funded free glasses
[19:45:26] <blockh34d> give em away to poor kids and anyone that wants em
[19:45:27] <_methods> oh man i love kickstarter
[19:45:40] <blockh34d> yah what a neat concept
[19:45:57] <blockh34d> my goals never seem to get kickstarted, i'm not social enough i think
[19:46:01] <blockh34d> but some day, who knows
[19:46:02] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: Apparently, they do a whole lot, but they don't export it
[19:46:26] <zeeshan-laptop> what type of injection molding do you wana do
[19:46:35] <zeeshan-laptop> i used to make dies for preforms for blow modling
[19:46:37] <zeeshan-laptop> molding
[19:46:52] <blockh34d> so what about a router where the cutting bit is actually on legs and it walks around on the stock, kinda crablike
[19:46:55] <zeeshan-laptop> its crazy how intense the finishes were
[19:46:57] <blockh34d> is that at all 'a thing'?
[19:47:04] <Tom_itx> malcom2073, well they did build a wall
[19:47:11] <blockh34d> i feel like that is a little bit doable
[19:47:11] <malcom2073> Damn mongolians
[19:47:13] <zeeshan-laptop> the die surfaces where the preforms came out of were vapor honed!
[19:47:23] <blockh34d> malcom2073: just build a really big wall
[19:49:53] <blockh34d> my cat is such a thug
[19:50:07] <blockh34d> i always find him sleeping on top of the largest pile of sharp objects he can find
[19:51:06] <blockh34d> tonight it was a pile of steak knives
[19:51:07] <CaptHindsight> _methods: what did you find today?
[19:51:23] <_methods> ?
[19:51:32] <CaptHindsight> poopstarter
[19:51:35] <_methods> oh lol
[19:51:39] <_methods> they hydro hammock
[19:51:44] <_methods> or was that yesterday
[19:51:44] <CaptHindsight> lol
[19:51:56] <CaptHindsight> and i haven't even seen it yet
[19:52:01] <_methods> omg
[19:52:01] <blockh34d> banana hammock pro?
[19:52:07] <_methods> how have you missed the hydro hammock
[19:52:25] <blockh34d> i like hammocks
[19:52:28] <blockh34d> they're super comfortable
[19:52:45] <blockh34d> in brazil apparently they're very popular, more so than normal beds
[19:53:19] <_methods> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hydrohammock/the-hydro-hammock
[19:53:47] <_methods> patents pending lol
[19:53:52] <CaptHindsight> it looks dumb enough to work!
[19:54:24] <CaptHindsight> combine that with a barbeque or hot cheese dispenser
[19:54:34] <_methods> hahah
[19:54:37] <blockh34d> needs bluetooth
[19:54:46] <_methods> i'm sure it has an app
[19:55:00] <_methods> like that smart water bottle
[19:55:13] <blockh34d> theres a water bottle that makes me smart
[19:55:23] <blockh34d> thats freaking amazing i am ready to buy
[19:55:40] <CaptHindsight> i still have to launch the t-shirt with app that tells you when it's dirty
[19:55:57] <CaptHindsight> and the beer mug that tweets you when it's empty
[19:56:36] <mutley> id rather my beer mug tweeted the bartender :)
[19:56:37] <malcom2073> +2
[19:56:40] <CaptHindsight> for the persons that need to constantly be told what to do
[19:56:48] <malcom2073> Bet you'd sell them like hotcakes
[19:57:30] <blockh34d> ElizaMug - 'How does that make you feel?'
[19:57:45] <blockh34d> automate the bartenders job
[19:57:48] <CaptHindsight> yeah, many bars can't seem to find people that can be on the lookout for empty glasses
[19:57:48] <blockh34d> technology
[19:58:07] <blockh34d> quadros
[19:58:10] <CaptHindsight> there are several patents on beer dispensing
[19:58:15] <blockh34d> quadros indoors with drunk people
[19:58:19] <CaptHindsight> metered taps
[19:58:41] <CaptHindsight> drink delivering drones
[19:59:00] <malcom2073> Buddy of mine had a party bot for a while
[19:59:13] <malcom2073> Basically a wheeled robot that went around serving beer
[19:59:28] <blockh34d> i would fork that
[19:59:31] <blockh34d> coffeebot
[19:59:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1kxwA1SzCw Hydro Hammock
[20:00:46] <CaptHindsight> has USB ports!
[20:01:25] <blockh34d> maybe a usb bob? hydro hammock powered cnc?
[20:02:06] <CaptHindsight> I was waiting for the laughter and jump back to SNL
[20:02:50] <kb8wmc> has anyone experienced problems getting into LinuxCNC website???
[20:02:55] <blockh34d> yes the commercials are the funniest part of SNL these days
[20:03:30] <CaptHindsight> kb8wmc: yeah it's down, but they are aware
[20:03:32] <malcom2073> Bwahahah hydro hammock
[20:03:34] <malcom2073> that's great
[20:04:04] <_methods> hop in the hydro hammock with a pack of hot dogs
[20:04:22] <kb8wmc> CaptHindsight: tnx, for info...I appreciate it
[20:04:24] <blockh34d> they should show off how portable it is
[20:04:30] <malcom2073> Who the hell takes a 50lb heater, and 300lbs of water with them hiking?
[20:04:32] <_methods> sousvide hammock
[20:04:38] <blockh34d> then show a long line of people carrying 5gal water jugs
[20:04:41] <malcom2073> How the hell did those people get that much fresh water at the beach?
[20:04:48] <blockh34d> pack of sherpas not included
[20:04:51] <kb8wmc> Capt....I thought it might be me...lol
[20:05:02] <CaptHindsight> and with the new hydro-lid steamer the buns are warm when the dogs are done
[20:05:54] <blockh34d> i bet we are at most 2 spring breaks away from video footage of some idiot diving into one of these froma second story window etc
[20:06:02] <blockh34d> 2 at the absolute most, it might already exist
[20:06:27] <blockh34d> i think i'd be pretty tempted
[20:06:58] <blockh34d> someone should cannonball it and get flung back out like a catapult, that'd be hilarious
[20:07:45] <blockh34d> so if i dont want to buy a cnc what is there for entry level projects?
[20:07:53] <blockh34d> maybe theres kits i could get that are kind basic?
[20:08:11] <blockh34d> i mean i would rather build it
[20:08:49] <blockh34d> even though that will probably not produce as good of results for the same money as buying something, i get that
[20:09:27] <blockh34d> i will ask diycnc this is their thing i think
[20:11:23] <CaptHindsight> what's an entry level project?
[20:11:40] <blockh34d> cutting 1/4" HDPE into intricate outlines
[20:11:55] <blockh34d> up to say... 400mmx400mm... or bigger would be nice
[20:12:14] <blockh34d> hdpe/wood/acrylic etc
[20:12:19] <blockh34d> but honestly, probably a lotta hdpe
[20:13:42] <blockh34d> maybe half inch thick if its these softer materials?
[20:13:46] <blockh34d> its not essential but it'd be nice
[20:14:28] <zeeshan-laptop> die shape memory poylmer die
[20:14:34] <zeeshan-laptop> dieeee
[20:15:41] <blockh34d> whats that about?
[20:15:50] <zeeshan-laptop> sorry
[20:15:58] <zeeshan-laptop> blowing shit up
[20:16:15] <blockh34d> no its ok irc is where you go to gripe about shape memory polymers i'm pretty certian of that
[20:16:24] <blockh34d> i dont know what they are tho
[20:16:26] <blockh34d> sounds neat
[20:16:28] <zeeshan-laptop> these guys know about em
[20:16:32] <zeeshan-laptop> been working on em for a while
[20:16:39] <blockh34d> yup well good luck then
[20:16:43] <blockh34d> show it whos boss
[20:16:45] <zeeshan-laptop> giving me moral support
[20:16:45] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[20:16:50] <blockh34d> sure
[20:17:08] <blockh34d> dont take no bs from a shaped memory polymer
[20:17:23] <blockh34d> jsut put it in a headlock
[20:17:39] <blockh34d> ok well cyall
[20:19:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-laptop: how many did you blow up real good today?
[20:20:23] <zeeshan-laptop> 3 so far
[20:20:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHkvD7-u7y8 Farm Film Report2 from your backyard :)
[20:21:23] <zeeshan-laptop> john candy was awesome
[20:21:23] <zeeshan-laptop> ;/
[20:21:38] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-laptop: how is the whole system working out?
[20:21:45] <zeeshan-laptop> so far its okay
[20:21:48] <zeeshan-laptop> im trying to do 2 things today
[20:21:56] <zeeshan-laptop> classify linear vs non linear viscoelastic
[20:22:02] <zeeshan-laptop> and then biaxial tensile test (blow stuff up)
[20:26:10] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan-laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nuFfd9kgbE SCTV Mr. Science with Johnny LaRue
[20:29:28] <CaptHindsight> I hope Pete hasn't had any anodizing mishaps
[20:30:23] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: any success yet?
[20:31:37] <PetefromTn_> No not really I got all the stuff I needed picked up in town today and now I am back at home working on some other machining stuff with a friend
[20:31:46] <PetefromTn_> hopefully tomorrow I can get it setup and test
[20:31:52] <PetefromTn_> today was kind of a crazy day
[22:31:13] <skunksleep> Latest Android update seems a bit more stable
[23:21:11] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/tag/5109654199.html ... Wooden cheese set.
[23:27:41] <os1r1s> pcw_home: You hanging out?
[23:33:14] <zeeshan-laptop> son of a bitch....
[23:33:23] <zeeshan-laptop> for some reeason i cant inject more than 15psi
[23:33:31] <zeeshan-laptop> even though line pressure is 30
[23:34:59] <furrywolf> ok. what happens when you try?
[23:35:18] <zeeshan-laptop> the solenoid stays open
[23:35:21] <zeeshan-laptop> and the pressure drops
[23:35:26] <zeeshan-laptop> inlet solenoid that is
[23:36:00] <zeeshan-laptop> Hm.
[23:36:18] <furrywolf> so... your line pressure isn't 30, or your sensor doesn't read over 15?
[23:36:42] <zeeshan-laptop> no sensor reasons till 50
[23:36:46] <zeeshan-laptop> i already tested that
[23:36:55] <zeeshan-laptop> and i have an analog gage on the line side
[23:36:57] <zeeshan-laptop> shows 30psi
[23:37:10] <zeeshan-laptop> i think i have a big leak in the system
[23:37:28] <zeeshan-laptop> that damn leak is catching up to me
[23:37:34] <furrywolf> that would be noticed by your analog gauge dropping from 30 to 15...
[23:40:16] <zeeshan-laptop> hm
[23:40:30] <zeeshan-laptop> maybe its the needle valve..
[23:40:50] <furrywolf> you have direct acting valves, right?
[23:41:57] <petefromtn> Evening folks
[23:42:24] <zeeshan-laptop> furrywolf: yes
[23:42:49] <Simonious> a friend just ordered a Roland MDX-40A and now he's wondering if it was his best choice, I've got no experience with such a machine - any thoughts here?
[23:42:50] <furrywolf> so if you have 30 psi on one side, you also have 30 psi on the other. :)
[23:42:55] <furrywolf> does your analog gauge drop to 15?
[23:42:59] <zeeshan-laptop> no
[23:44:05] <furrywolf> are there any other components between the two gauges other than the valve?
[23:44:08] <zeeshan-laptop> rerimmomg tje test
[23:44:12] <zeeshan-laptop> rerunning i mean
[23:44:24] <zeeshan-laptop> no
[23:44:56] <furrywolf> then your gauge is bad, your other gauge is bad, the valve is bad, or you have a leak so bad the valve can't flow enough to fight it...
[23:45:02] <zeeshan-laptop> oh i think the sample failed..
[23:45:02] <zeeshan-laptop> hmm
[23:45:07] <furrywolf> lol
[23:45:25] <furrywolf> in other words, it performed perfectly, and "hmm" is the sound of data? :)
[23:45:47] <zeeshan-laptop> lol yea
[23:45:50] <zeeshan-laptop> that is weird
[23:45:54] <zeeshan-laptop> the sample isnt failing at the pole
[23:45:59] <zeeshan-laptop> that is why i didnt notice it
[23:46:18] <furrywolf> remember, many discoveries start with "that's funny....", not "eureka!".
[23:46:49] <petefromtn> Or oh shit
[23:47:05] <furrywolf> you probably have stress concentrating on the sharp edge of your clamp
[23:48:35] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/dfFe6oV.jpg
[23:48:38] <zeeshan-laptop> there is no clamp there
[23:49:28] <furrywolf> ... what name do YOU use for the big metal piece with a hole in the middle and six bolts squishing it?
[23:49:52] <zeeshan-laptop> i meant to say stress concentration
[23:49:53] <zeeshan-laptop> not clamp
[23:50:48] <furrywolf> the material is anisotropic... you probably have some weird funky curved stress lines if you mapped it..
[23:51:11] <furrywolf> also, it looks like the material has visible ripples in the vertical direction, and the rip is vertical? is your sample of uneven thickness?
[23:54:57] <zeeshan-laptop> i know its anisotropic
[23:55:21] <zeeshan-laptop> and ive got uniaxial tensile test data that made this sample fail at 130% strain
[23:55:31] <zeeshan-laptop> in a biaxial case, i should be hitting around 260%
[23:55:36] <zeeshan-laptop> im only hitting 60%
[23:55:44] <zeeshan-laptop> its something to do with the die design
[23:56:41] <furrywolf> as it tries to stretch unevenly, it pulls at it in weird angles. picture what a piece of sheet (of the type you put on the bed) would look like if poked through a hole. the folds result in reduced stress in one direction but increased in the other...
[23:57:46] <furrywolf> you have an anisotropic material with weird properties, that tries to keep its shape like a sheet, not a rubber balloon. :)
[23:58:30] <furrywolf> now what would be REALLY interesting is if this effect goes away above the melt temperature.
[23:59:42] <zeeshan-laptop> even if it is anistropic
[23:59:44] <furrywolf> although it also could have just been a defective sample. the picture really looks to me like it has visible vertical striations, such as from a poor forming process, and it might have started out being uneven thickness with thin spots, or else it had even thickness but uneven properties when stretched.
[23:59:47] <zeeshan-laptop> the fracture has to happen on the pole.