#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-08

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[00:00:13] <Jymmm> zeeshan: and you are going to pay for all that fuel?
[00:00:14] <furrywolf> would you like to point out which of these numbers I pulled out of my ass rather than based on real-world figures?
[00:00:21] <zeeshan> 50 year life span
[00:00:25] <furrywolf> Jymmm: at this point I think he's just being an ass and trolling.
[00:00:29] <zeeshan> 4.6 million
[00:00:54] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Eh, not sure yet wth he's being
[00:01:03] <furrywolf> I would wager just the cost of repainting your water tower and maintaining the pumps, turbines, and generators exceeds the cost of the batteries. :P
[00:01:07] <zeeshan> hey, look i got 4 solar pannels on my roof
[00:01:11] <zeeshan> im lighitng up 2 lights in my house
[00:01:15] <zeeshan> SHEEET i saved so much money!
[00:01:39] <toastydeath> yaaaay
[00:01:40] * furrywolf googles for the cost of repainting water towers
[00:01:53] <zeeshan> furrywolf: 10,0000$
[00:01:56] <zeeshan> 10,000
[00:02:07] <toastydeath> ONE BILLION DOLLARS
[00:02:15] <zeeshan> i love messing with clean energy people
[00:02:25] <zeeshan> first they implement these alternative technologies and call em clean energy
[00:02:36] <furrywolf> "The tank’s interior was painted last year and it has been 13 years since the outside had last been painted." "MC Sandblasting gave the City a bid of $66,900 for the job."
[00:02:37] <zeeshan> and then they don't realize how determental the technologies are to begin with to the environment
[00:03:01] <furrywolf> there you go. the cost of REPAINTING THE WATER TOWER, completely ignoring building it, exceeds the cost of batteries to store the same amount of power.
[00:03:11] <zeeshan> furrywolf: why are you on about water towers
[00:03:14] <Jymmm> zeeshan: and diesel is BETTER for the environment?
[00:03:20] <zeeshan> Jymmm: fuck yes!
[00:03:25] <Jymmm> shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit,
[00:03:37] <zeeshan> theres enough studies out there that show the environmental impact on refining diesel and using it
[00:03:39] <furrywolf> <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWDU4SuhOTenavGEGWIEiJskOuAB05BtIdMDw3fWeX_dSpij_3
[00:03:40] <furrywolf> <zeeshan> one of these big boys
[00:03:43] <zeeshan> is FAR less than producing solar panels
[00:03:51] <zeeshan> and dealing with battery garbage
[00:03:57] <Jymmm> zeeshan: go look at china
[00:04:12] <zeeshan> the most polluted country in the world? what about it
[00:04:46] <roycroft> i might question that
[00:04:46] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ok, NOW he's trolling
[00:04:51] <furrywolf> "FAIRHOPE, Alabama -- Painting two water towers could cost $1 million — and that’s just for basic white. "
[00:05:11] <roycroft> i think india is vying for the title of most polluted country in the world
[00:05:25] <furrywolf> "The 1-million-gallon tank on Nichols Avenue was last painted in 1996 or 1997, and a 2-million-gallon tank off Fairhope Avenue was last painted in 1992. "
[00:05:58] <Jymmm> EXCELLENT documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhIZ50HKIp0
[00:06:00] <roycroft> send us your computer junk, your decomissioned ships, your toxic whatever
[00:06:08] <zeeshan> http://www.numbeo.com/pollution/rankings_by_country.jsp
[00:06:11] <roycroft> we shall disassemble them all and then bathe in the ganges
[00:06:22] <furrywolf> Jymmm: yeah, I help him with his projects, and now he's an ass back. and that's why I don't help people.
[00:06:22] <zeeshan> china is up there :P
[00:06:24] <furrywolf> bbl, bedtime.
[00:06:38] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i can have an opinion
[00:06:40] <zeeshan> just like you can
[00:06:43] <zeeshan> don't get offended
[00:06:49] <zeeshan> just cause it's not the same
[00:07:12] <furrywolf> you can have an opinion. you can't hold whatever opinion happens to be most contrary to what anyone else says just for the sake of causing an argument and wasting people's time.
[00:07:25] <zeeshan> i've learned one thing from research, if you REALLY want to make your opinion stronger, you can always find stuff to do so.
[00:07:25] <roycroft> anyone can hold any opinion
[00:07:29] <zeeshan> doesn't mean it's necessarily right.
[00:07:35] <roycroft> even opinions that are disproved by fact
[00:07:47] <zeeshan> facts can be questioned.
[00:07:50] <zeeshan> trust me on that
[00:07:52] <zeeshan> :P
[00:07:56] <roycroft> facts have a liberal bias
[00:07:57] <Jymmm> so now arguing about arguing?!
[00:07:57] <furrywolf> you also can't ignore evidence, math, physics, logic, or research. if you do that, you don't have opinion, you have religion.
[00:08:03] <roycroft> ask any wingnut
[00:08:20] <zeeshan> math no.
[00:08:27] <Jymmm> NEVER trust anyone that says "Trust me"
[00:08:27] <zeeshan> physics is as good as your assumptions
[00:08:31] <zeeshan> logic -- that can be questioned.
[00:08:33] <roycroft> math has a liberal bias
[00:08:36] <roycroft> ergo so does science
[00:08:40] <zeeshan> some people think it's okay to kill people using capital punishment
[00:08:42] <zeeshan> some dont.
[00:08:47] <zeeshan> research - it's always changing
[00:08:52] <zeeshan> evidence - can be questioned.
[00:09:01] <roycroft> what about killing people using lower case punishment?
[00:09:03] <zeeshan> (court of laws is a prime example)
[00:09:18] <furrywolf> yes, and if you want, I can prove that burning all the people killed with capital punishment doesn't produce as much power as a small battery bank stores.
[00:09:20] <Jymmm> roycroft: only if no vowels are harmed
[00:09:24] <roycroft> maybe people don't like capital punishment BECAUSE IT'S SO SHOUTY
[00:09:30] <zeeshan> you're not going to change my opinion that one of the biggest problems with "clean energy" is storage of that energy
[00:09:34] <zeeshan> grid tie systems make a lot of sense.
[00:09:44] <zeeshan> and i'll always think batteries are nonsense
[00:09:48] <roycroft> so you're ok with lower case welsh punishment, jymmm?
[00:10:10] <furrywolf> you proposed a solution that I rather conclusively proved was worse than the current standard solution, but you kept insisting the current solution should be replaced by it.
[00:10:12] <zeeshan> till someone comes up with a battery that lasts as long as an average human life
[00:10:16] <Jymmm> roycroft: Welch? Is that like death by bagpipes?
[00:10:22] <roycroft> zeeshan: what about big flywheels?
[00:10:26] <roycroft> hey
[00:10:31] <roycroft> i'm taking piping lessons
[00:10:38] <roycroft> don't dis teh bagpipe!
[00:10:40] <Jymmm> roycroft: EXACTLY!
[00:10:42] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you didn't prove anything
[00:10:53] <zeeshan> you proved that the environmental impact of batteries would be even greater
[00:11:01] <furrywolf> all I know is whenever they play bagpipes, someone's dead. thus, bagpipes are really deadly.
[00:11:06] <roycroft> flywheels were popular upses for a while back in the '80s and '90s
[00:11:09] <furrywolf> ... are you fucking drunk or something?
[00:11:11] <roycroft> then they went out of vogue for some reason
[00:11:23] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you really dont like someone having an opinion!
[00:11:27] <zeeshan> boy the mouth on you
[00:11:28] <zeeshan> :p
[00:11:28] <furrywolf> you're either drunk or trolling, and either one is just being an ass.
[00:11:40] <Jymmm> roycroft: bagpipes in moderation ;)
[00:12:01] <roycroft> i readily concede that bagpipes are best enjoyed at a distance
[00:12:11] <roycroft> and preferably after a couple drams of single malt
[00:12:31] <furrywolf> so far I've shown the cost of pumped hydro to far exceed the cost of batteries, both initial and ongoing.
[00:12:38] <furrywolf> using actual researched data
[00:12:39] <roycroft> but everything is better after a couple of drams of single malt
[00:12:39] <Jymmm> roycroft: by couple, I'll asume you mean KEGS, not drams
[00:12:52] <zeeshan> you looked at it from a COST cost.
[00:12:54] <zeeshan> not SOCIAL cost
[00:12:58] <zeeshan> fuck , stop with the arguing
[00:13:00] <zeeshan> im getting annoyed now
[00:13:30] <Jymmm> hulk mad?
[00:13:34] <zeeshan> HULK SMASH!
[00:13:39] <roycroft> i think we should replace the term "battery" with "current technology battery" in conversations like this
[00:14:05] <roycroft> there are a lot of emerging battery technologies that are much much greener/cleaner than the current ones and much more cost effective
[00:14:15] <zeeshan> roycroft: i agree
[00:14:16] <roycroft> sadly, none have been perfected enough to bring to market yet
[00:14:16] <Jymmm> Until they come up with better technlogy, that's what we got
[00:14:19] <roycroft> however
[00:14:21] <roycroft> that said
[00:14:26] <zeeshan> they are developing some at marc where i work
[00:14:32] <zeeshan> i see all these posters
[00:14:39] <roycroft> battery storage of electrical energy is not the only solution
[00:14:53] <furrywolf> ok, which is worse to produce, 8 batteries that weigh 144lbs of mostly lead, or 110 tons of steel, 80 gallons of paint, turbines, plumbing, etc?
[00:14:59] <Jymmm> ow all the elctric cars even have MORE/BIGGER batteries
[00:14:59] <roycroft> i mentione flywheels some moments ago
[00:15:22] <roycroft> they consume a lot of space, but can be very effective at storing energy
[00:15:31] <zeeshan> first of all i wouldn';t use steel
[00:15:33] <zeeshan> i'd use aluminum.
[00:15:34] <furrywolf> keeping in mind you're replacing the 80 gallons of paint at the same rate you replace the 1152lbs of batteries.
[00:15:36] <furrywolf> LOL
[00:15:47] <furrywolf> aluminum takes HUGE amounts of energy to manufacture
[00:15:57] <furrywolf> and the cost goes up even more
[00:16:08] <roycroft> when efficiency is not the driving issue, converting electricity to heat and vice versa opens a whole range of other energy storage methods
[00:16:14] <roycroft> there are almost countless ways to store heat
[00:16:25] <zeeshan> oil stores heat pretty well!
[00:16:35] <roycroft> yes
[00:16:57] <furrywolf> roycroft: unfortunately, there's countlessly few (i.e. zero) ways of getting good efficiency getting the heat back into electricity.
[00:17:03] <zeeshan> furrywolf: last time i checked, 144lb of lead was a lot more toxic to things
[00:17:08] <roycroft> and if it used to store heat and then release it without being changed it has zero co2 and other pollutant factors
[00:17:36] <roycroft> as i said a short while ago "when efficiency is not the driving issue"
[00:17:46] <zeeshan> i'm not an expert at building water tanks
[00:17:47] <zeeshan> nor are you
[00:17:55] <Jymmm> roycroft: but efficiency will ALWAYS been a factor
[00:17:58] <zeeshan> nor are you at looking at the environmental impact of things
[00:18:04] <furrywolf> aluminum takes approximately 60kWh per kg to produce. steel approximately 3kWh.
[00:18:08] <roycroft> i said "driving factor", not "a factor"
[00:18:11] <zeeshan> my opnion is an opinion
[00:18:33] <furrywolf> if your opionion disagrees with evidence, your opinion becomes reclassified as delusion.
[00:18:33] * Jymmm pats zeeshan on the head
[00:18:42] <zeeshan> furrywolf: thats likely is from ore.
[00:18:43] <zeeshan> not recycle
[00:18:47] <roycroft> and, having interjected myself in this conversation, which could be quite intriguing, i'm finished with my keyboard tasks for now
[00:18:50] <furrywolf> but, I don't think you're that stupid, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling.
[00:19:00] <roycroft> and tomorrow is the oregon country fair, and i have about 3 days worth of work to do to prepare for it
[00:19:03] <zeeshan> you enjoy putting up your solar powers
[00:19:04] <Jymmm> roycroft: Gnght
[00:19:06] <zeeshan> and storing power in battery
[00:19:09] <roycroft> so i shall have to take my leave now
[00:19:11] <furrywolf> so I'm going go to bed rather than waste more time talking to someone who is intentionally causing an argument.
[00:19:13] <zeeshan> while i continue burning my fossil fuels
[00:19:14] <zeeshan> :-)
[00:19:17] <roycroft> but i might pick this up again next week
[00:19:43] <roycroft> as i've spent the last 40 or so years of my life working on energy issues
[00:19:55] <zeeshan> have you come up with something innovative?
[00:19:56] <zeeshan> :D
[00:21:40] <zeeshan> how about electrolysis to generate hydrogen and store it
[00:21:45] <zeeshan> and burn it later for more energy
[00:37:49] <zeeshan> http://dqbasmyouzti2.cloudfront.net/content/images/articles/tam-tod.jpgg.jpg
[00:37:52] <zeeshan> nice chart
[00:38:12] <zeeshan> http://dqbasmyouzti2.cloudfront.net/content/images/articles/tam-duck.jpg
[00:50:56] <renesis> roycroft: flywheels ftw! they but the williams F1 developed flywheel on a city bus
[00:51:00] <renesis> racebus
[00:52:36] <renesis> and furrywolf is likely right about the aluminum, the arc furnaces they use are fucking massive, its like an orgy of electric plasma, and i dont think recycled is much different
[00:57:47] <renesis> oh crazy: Recycling scrap aluminium requires only 5% of the energy used to make new aluminium.
[00:58:09] <zeeshan> yea
[00:58:11] <zeeshan> its tiny amount
[00:58:19] <zeeshan> thats why recycling pays so well for aluminum
[00:59:57] <renesis> yeah because it seems its mad drama to get the aluminum oxide in the first place before getting to the smelting part
[01:00:25] <renesis> stupid rocks
[01:10:52] <archivist> aluminium plants need to own their own hydroelectric generation to be viable
[01:13:27] <archivist> if I was rich http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281737897827
[02:22:31] <Deejay> moin
[02:32:40] <trentster> archivist: probably if you factor in everything - the most expensive form of electricity generation is ironically Nuclear.
[02:41:13] <pcb_maker> hi everyone! I want to make a pcb
[02:41:34] <pcb_maker> what end mill or bit i need to order?
[02:44:52] <pcb_maker> hi podarok
[02:45:06] <Crom> something with a small enough tip to cut between the pads.
[02:45:40] <Crom> I've used a ebay 30 degree engraver with a .5mm flat on the end
[02:46:32] <pcb_maker> something like that?
[02:46:34] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-Carbide-PCB-board-0-2mm-10-Degree-Engraving-Bits-CNC-Router-Tool-V-shape/161063409982?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32294%26meid%3Db52bd820664143ac9d57860a9b7ead25%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D221819688088
[02:46:46] <pcb_maker> Crom: ^
[02:52:21] <pcb_maker> Now I'm using the smallest center drill from HF, and it's work ok, but the edges very rough
[02:53:49] <Crom> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Carbide-PCB-Acrylic-ABS-Copper-Engraving-CNC-Bit-Router-Tool-30-Degree-0-2mm-/281346811342?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418193a5ce
[02:54:25] <trentster> Do you guys reccomend using wd40 when cutting aluminium?
[02:55:07] <Crom> trent yes or parafin
[02:55:18] <Crom> or ivory soap
[02:55:24] <trentster> paraf in you kidding right?
[02:55:38] <Crom> trent candle wax
[02:56:02] <trentster> haha
[02:56:43] <Crom> I like soap a bit better
[02:57:10] <trentster> it was a serious question btw - we are not all experts here
[02:57:10] <Crom> helps keep the AL from sticking
[02:57:20] <trentster> :P
[02:57:22] <pcb_maker> I'm cuttingit using the HF cutting oil or pam
[02:58:22] <Crom> I've also used diesel and kerosene
[02:59:35] <pcb_maker> Crom: it is fleamable and you need very well ventilated room
[03:00:18] <Crom> I'm talking cutting AL to keep from the loading up the bit or blade
[03:00:19] <pcb_maker> Crom: do you know if the 30 degree engraver is good for low speed spindle?
[03:00:29] <gonzo__> also, you can grind ali if you rub wax into the wheel first
[03:00:48] <Crom> pcb I use it on a 230w and a 400w dc spindles
[03:01:04] <pcb_maker> what rpm?
[03:01:44] <Crom> at least 4K and adjust my feedrate to a point it's cutting and not rubbing
[03:01:53] <pcb_maker> my go up to 1800 rpm.
[03:02:25] <Crom> so slower feedrate
[03:05:08] <trentster> pcb_maker: are you using a air or water cooled spindle?
[03:05:18] <pcb_maker> I'm thinking about external high speed spindle.
[03:05:40] <pcb_maker> air
[03:05:45] <pcb_maker> or none.
[03:06:00] <pcb_maker> there is no cooling system.
[03:06:10] <pcb_maker> It's a milling machine.
[03:06:44] <trentster> I thought the small air cooled spindles could not go as low rpm as 1800rpm without overheating the min from the ones I have used is 5000
[03:07:03] <trentster> I am talking about cooling of the spindle itself
[03:07:24] <trentster> the air cooled ones need a decent rpm not to overheat
[03:12:09] <Crom> with my 400w, I have to use high feedrate to keep from rubbing, but I have to back off and let it speed up again. So like depth of cut is 0.050", cut for 0.100, back off 0.050, and by the time it gets back to the cut again it's sped up again.
[03:12:47] <Crom> I need a real mill instead of a 3040
[03:14:55] <pcb_maker> I have the G0704
[03:15:50] <pcb_maker> It's work very good, I'm working with metals all the time, but on soft materials, it's gime me hard time.
[03:15:54] <trentster> seems like a ton of people have 3040's - anyone used a Chinese 6090 - if so is it decent?
[03:16:17] <pcb_maker> I have foamed pvc sheed and i can't get clean cut.
[03:17:49] <pcb_maker> trentster: probbly the 6090 will be tha same as the 3040 but with more flex ans freedome in the axis so it will be less acurate
[03:18:06] <pcb_maker> the*
[03:19:02] <trentster> whats the recommended bit for cutting acrylic with a 400w spindle - will a 1/8 inch endmill work at high feed rates?
[03:19:14] <Jymmm> Osrud Cuters
[03:19:18] <trentster> or do I have to use a O flute?
[03:19:57] <pcb_maker> what is O flute?
[03:20:05] <Jymmm> http://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/cnc-plastic-cutting-tools
[03:20:37] <Jymmm> They are the best dman tooling for plastics, hands down.
[03:20:48] <trentster> Jymmm: thanks but the onsrud stuff is kinda out of my price range and expensive to get in australia. I know its the best stuff tho.
[03:21:07] <Jymmm> trentster: O flute will work if you can get it locally
[03:21:25] <Jymmm> trentster: it's the remelt you have to deal with primarily
[03:22:15] <pcb_maker> http://www.onsrud.com/product/Item/m/itemDetail.html?itemId=64-000
[03:22:21] <pcb_maker> 34$
[03:22:37] <Jymmm> and well worth the money
[03:22:55] <pcb_maker> not that expensiv
[03:22:56] <Jymmm> I have $85 onsrud cutter
[03:23:05] <Crom> I try to use low spindle speed with as fast of feedrate I can get and even more compressed air to clear chips and cool the plastic
[03:23:41] <Crom> I use a 2 flute 3mm end mill
[03:23:47] <trentster> Thanks so vacuum is not really sufficient you to compressed air to blow chips out the way?
[03:24:04] <Crom> nope
[03:24:26] <Crom> that's on about 13#'s compressed air I'm using at least 60#'s
[03:24:38] <Crom> s/ on / only /
[03:24:50] <pcb_maker> what is the #?
[03:25:02] <Crom> # == pound
[03:25:03] <Jymmm> PSI
[03:25:22] <pcb_maker> nice!
[03:27:05] <pcb_maker> http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/10-pcs-pcb-drill-bit-set-tungsten-steel-head/202424534.html#se1-1-1a|4234038748
[03:27:22] <trentster> I was thinking oif getting something like this? http://monosnap.com/image/tHB4cejQEoznVPhgW2HT2fFF5flyY4 would it be sufficient?
[03:27:24] <pcb_maker> what about some thinglike that as end mill for pcb?
[03:29:51] <pcb_maker> http://www.onsrud.com/product/Item/m/itemDetail.html?itemId=29-003
[03:30:05] <pcb_maker> this is cuttting someting??
[03:30:39] <Crom> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-HP-125-PSI-Oil-Lube-Air-Compressor-68740.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMTI0MzU4NjkiLCJza3UiOiI2ODc0MCIsImlzIjoiOTkuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiODkwMCJ9%0D%0A
[03:32:22] <pcb_maker> trentster: it will make a lot of noise you can use a fridge compresor and you will ger silent compressor witt very nice amount of air.
[03:32:56] <Crom> those drill bits are for drilling thru holes in the PCB's
[03:34:05] <Crom> I run my compressor up to 120#'s and set the pressure to 40 to 60 psi and then run it down to 40 psi off the 20 gallon tank
[03:35:12] <Crom> that's only for cutting plastics... wood, metal I use the vacuum/coolant/lubricant
[03:36:07] <Valen> why are plain spur gears so friggin expensive?
[03:36:12] <Valen> and stainless so much more
[03:36:46] <pcb_maker> Crom: my machine in inside the house, If i will use a noisy compressok it will drive my crasy, so I'm trying to youse the clean and quite suff that posible.
[03:37:20] <Valen> pcb_maker: if you want a quiet compressor with not a heap of air volume but not bad get one from an old fridge or something
[03:37:55] <Valen> put a squirt of WD40 into it before you run it, and put some kind of oil recovery thing on the output and they are almost silent
[03:38:00] <Valen> work pretty well for vacuum too
[03:38:22] <Crom> My mum has her compressor (2hp pancake) in the garage, and my pops plumbed up air lines into the living room, kitchen, and sewing room for her.
[03:38:36] <Valen> what's you mother doing with air?
[03:38:39] <pcb_maker> Valen: [04:09] <pcb_maker> trentster: it will make a lot of noise you can use a fridge compresor and you will ger silent compressor witt very nice amount of air.
[03:38:54] <Valen> heh great minds
[03:39:37] <Crom> bit of everything... air stapler for upholstry, air nozzle to blow out sewing machines, and she likes it for knocking off the dust on things
[03:39:55] <Valen> I like both your mother and pop ;->
[03:40:55] <gonzo__> and they make reasonable vacuum pumps
[03:41:25] <gonzo__> I use one for vacuum impregnating knife scales
[03:41:30] <Crom> nite nite
[03:41:55] <Valen> gonzo_what with?
[03:42:59] <gonzo__> at the moment, I use a dry rot cure, which I think is a resin in acetone
[03:43:15] <gonzo__> though the solvent does tend to boil off a bit
[03:43:32] <Valen> too much suck ;->
[03:43:33] <pcb_maker> someone know aboue simple software to make engraving on pen
[03:43:52] <pcb_maker> just letters and simple stuff not 4 axis.
[03:43:56] <gonzo__> I get down to about 95% vacuum
[03:44:45] <gonzo__> have seen others using a thermoset resin, called cactus juice
[03:45:17] <gonzo__> which doens't boil off
[03:45:37] <pcb_maker> I can basically can do it as a flat surface but i wuld like to compensate the curved surface
[03:46:00] <gonzo__> but it's bloody expensive and I;m not that seriously into knife making
[03:48:47] <trentster> pcb_maker: thanks for the tip - I will try and find a fridge compressor
[03:50:01] <pcb_maker> trentster: the free section in craigslist is your best friend :)
[03:50:25] <trentster> pcb_maker: yup would be true if I lived in the US ;-)
[03:50:38] <pcb_maker> I you sont need very high cfm try to find water bar,
[03:50:52] <pcb_maker> like the primo and other..
[03:52:34] <pcb_maker> https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/zip/5105731769.html
[03:52:58] <pcb_maker> http://frederick.craigslist.org/zip/5112117984.html
[03:53:26] <pcb_maker> this is dubble doors so you will get very nice compressor,
[03:53:41] <trentster> pcb_maker: I am in Australia
[03:54:35] <trentster> but thanks for the tips :-)
[03:54:41] <pcb_maker> your user show Washington, DC, USA
[03:55:10] <trentster> pcb_maker: its DNS trickery so I can pipe netflix
[03:56:08] <pcb_maker> I'm from Y and never spend time on watching TV,
[03:56:11] <pcb_maker> NY*
[03:56:58] <trentster> I have to keep the wife docile somehow - netflix seems to do that :-)
[03:59:16] <pcb_maker> trentster: my husband bought for me a cnc machine :)
[03:59:57] <trentster> heh touche
[04:00:37] <Jymmm> trentster: chloriform?
[04:01:08] <Valen> trentster: where in .au?
[04:01:11] <Valen> sydney here
[04:01:30] <trentster> Melbourne here
[04:01:31] <Valen> our preferred source of fridge compressors is council cleanups
[04:01:49] <Valen> though the scrap metal asshats will probably make that difficult these days
[04:04:10] <pcb_maker> someone here use stack light?
[04:04:21] <trentster> Valen: I used to live in Perth - they had verge collection at the same time for everyone in a specific neighbourhood. It was like Xmas could find everything you needed in a single car trip.
[04:04:45] <trentster> In Melbourne you gotta be lucky and happen to drive past something of interest randomly
[04:04:50] <trentster> Which kinda sucks
[04:06:00] <trentster> Jymmm: they tend to frown on using chloriform on loved ones in this part of the world :P - but I will keep it in mind of netflix ever stops working ;-)
[04:11:17] <Jymmm> trentster: No, no, that's just a SUGGESTION that you not use it. You know, for liability purposes =)
[04:12:06] <Valen> trentster: perhaps try a tip, or a fridge repair place or something?
[04:12:19] <Jymmm> TIP?
[04:13:07] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Patlite-Corp-Model-LH-B-Tower-Light-Unused-Stock-Excess-Spare-No-Box-J-/271520818114?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f37e6e3c2
[04:13:10] <Valen> just let em know you are after a *working* or at least semi working one and you can probably get one free
[04:13:15] <Valen> Jymmm: rubbish dump?
[04:13:27] <Jymmm> ah
[04:13:28] <pcb_maker> I mean to something like that.
[04:14:22] <Jymmm> frig compressor for ???
[04:14:33] <Jymmm> vacuum?
[04:16:04] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Workshop-Industrial-DC-12V-Red-Green-Orange-Lamp-Tower-Warning-Signal-Light-Bulb-/321526124235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adc734ecb
[04:16:13] <pcb_maker> This is just 28$
[04:17:03] <Valen> halogen bulbs?
[04:17:48] <Jymmm> LED
[04:18:01] <pcb_maker> I can convert it to LED if needed.
[04:18:27] <pcb_maker> but some of you use something like that on your machine?
[04:18:44] <Jymmm> It IS led
[04:18:58] <Valen> the one in that ebay link is halogen
[04:19:08] <Valen> I want one of those on our new mill
[04:19:34] <Jymmm> "Features Red, Green ,Orange Light, Bright LED Light can be used a Signal Light or Alarm Light."
[04:19:35] <Valen> I want to make a clock now, grandfather clock out of module 2 stainless gears ;->
[04:20:03] <pcb_maker> my machine is soo quiet that I'm forgat it working all the time.
[04:20:05] <Valen> look at the pictures of the bulbs, they are clearly halogen
[04:20:35] <Jymmm> read the description
[04:21:18] <pcb_maker> I'm staring now to make one myself with LED and bery small PCBs,
[04:21:29] <Valen> look at the picture of the thing you are buying
[04:21:45] <Jymmm> pics lie, read the words
[04:22:01] <Valen> I think generally you will find it is the other way around
[04:22:15] <Jymmm> Nope
[04:22:33] <Jymmm> except chinglish
[04:22:52] <Valen> "Item location:Hong Kong, Hong Kong"
[04:23:17] <Jymmm> Fine, ask seller
[04:24:45] <Jymmm> Something doesn't seem right about a 1" PLASTIC flow sensor
[04:25:25] <Jymmm> Especially a CLEAR one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Flow-Hall-Effect-Sensor-Control-Switch-Flowmeter-Counter-1-30L-min-1-75Mpa-/191322722584?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8bb91118
[04:26:29] <pcb_maker> Water Flow Hall Effect??
[04:26:52] <pcb_maker> Iknow about electro macnetic flow meter, but not for 5$
[04:27:56] <gonzo__> a moving puck/flap with a magnet in?
[04:28:30] <pcb_maker> It's look like something that count revolution of turbine
[04:29:05] <Jymmm> better description http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Water-Flow-Sensor-Switch-Meter-Flowmeter-Counter-Control-1-60L-min-/201195197493
[04:29:39] <Jymmm> Mounted vertically, should not exceed 5 degrees inclination.
[04:32:28] <Jymmm> I wonder how accurate it is?
[04:32:43] <pcb_maker> http://www.us.endress.com/en/Tailor-made-field-instrumentation/Flow-measurement-product-overview
[04:33:51] <pcb_maker> What do you need to measure
[04:33:54] <pcb_maker> ?
[04:33:55] <Jymmm> Heh, I wnder if I could just the flow to recharge a battery?
[04:34:02] <Jymmm> water usage
[04:34:30] <pcb_maker> for the house?
[04:34:39] <Jymmm> yeah
[04:34:48] <pcb_maker> you can see on youer bill..
[04:35:27] <Jymmm> I can't see on the bill how much water is used to take a shower. flusht hte toilet, water the garden, etc
[04:35:59] <Jymmm> or if there is a leak I don't know about
[04:36:39] <Valen> it'll most likley have a hall effect sensor + magnet in it, it'll be accurate over a specific flow range as a rule
[04:38:14] <Jymmm> Valen: Cool. I can compare it to water meter and adjust accordingly
[04:38:21] <pcb_maker> so basically any analog flow meter will work for you
[04:38:44] <Valen> so it probably wont work for a dripping tap, but should give you an idea for flushing toilets and the like
[04:38:46] <Jymmm> pcb_maker: No, digital. I'll log usage 24/7/365
[04:39:06] <Jymmm> Valen: theres a 1-30lpm too
[04:39:13] <pcb_maker> but i wulde go with something that made out of metal
[04:39:46] <XXCoder> heys
[04:39:53] <pcb_maker> the plastic can crack and leak
[04:40:03] <Jymmm> I would too, but I might try it with a couple bypass valves in case it fubars
[04:41:10] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAINWAVE-WATER-TIMER-SAVE-WATER-FLOW-METER-New-/331431757887?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2adf483f
[04:41:18] <pcb_maker> this is look cute!
[04:41:35] <Jymmm> they break in 90 days
[04:42:52] <Jymmm> brass http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEN-HZ43WB-G3-4-Male-Thread-Brass-Hall-Effect-Water-Flow-Sensor-1-30L-min-/291260742884
[04:46:43] <pcb_maker> Do you want to see the small stack light that I'm working on?
[04:53:45] <pcb_maker> hi pjm_
[04:53:46] <XXCoder> sure
[04:54:22] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/OxsmTXg.png
[04:54:41] <XXCoder> interesting
[04:54:46] <pcb_maker> http://i.imgur.com/UFmwosm.png
[04:55:43] <pcb_maker> I want to make few rings like that from each color
[04:56:21] <XXCoder> hmm
[04:56:27] <XXCoder> for what?
[04:56:36] <pcb_maker> Stack light.
[04:56:52] <pcb_maker> to put it on the top of the machine
[04:57:04] <XXCoder> ahh status indictors?
[04:57:17] <pcb_maker> yes
[04:57:38] <XXCoder> nice
[04:57:48] <XXCoder> Im considering using my walk/stop for that use lol
[04:58:22] <XXCoder> the hand is half working
[04:58:27] <pcb_maker> green on, blinking green working, blue finish, red stop, yellow, over heatig/problem
[04:58:29] <XXCoder> but walking man works just fine
[04:58:51] <pcb_maker> what do you mean walking man?
[04:59:02] <XXCoder> I just plan walk for running, hand for stop, flashing hand for problem
[04:59:13] <XXCoder> you know, cross street walk sign? I has one
[04:59:37] <pcb_maker> I'm always forget it on.
[05:00:07] <pcb_maker> It's very very quiet
[05:00:18] <pcb_maker> almost silence
[05:01:05] <XXCoder> lol nice
[05:01:21] <XXCoder> im getting last needed parts for my machine so it may be operational soon
[05:01:36] <XXCoder> the walk/stop sign probably wont happen anytime soon though lol
[05:02:12] <pcb_maker> what machine you have?
[05:02:28] <XXCoder> small cnc router
[05:04:43] <pjm_> hello
[05:04:49] <XXCoder> hey
[05:04:58] <pcb_maker> I'm always want something like that but my husband say that it's not strong enough so he gave me the G0704
[05:05:49] <XXCoder> yea he cheap chinese routers can barely mill aluminium
[05:05:56] <XXCoder> while your machine can mill whatever
[05:07:33] <pcb_maker> but the spindle is sooo slow if i'm working with small end mill like 1/8" it's take forever because the slow feed rate,
[05:08:11] <pcb_maker> I can set it up up to 1800 rpm without over heating,
[05:08:49] <XXCoder> heh my router has opposite problem, it has 27000 rpm and cant be changed
[05:09:02] <pcb_maker> but most of the time I'm use ~1000rpm and set the feed rate,
[05:09:26] <XXCoder> if I bought full kit and not buy parts a time, I woul have had better spindle with 3k-12k rpm
[05:11:13] <pcb_maker> it you are going to cut stuff it it much better to go with high speed spindle because it more efficient to use small end mills
[05:11:20] <pcb_maker> if*
[05:11:34] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:11:50] <XXCoder> it has to be small em anyway due to chuck size
[05:12:14] <XXCoder> it has work space of just 1.5 feet by foot by 3 inches
[05:12:39] <XXCoder> or around 400mm x 300mm x umm 60mm? something
[05:12:44] <pcb_maker> most of the materials anyway come as plate
[05:12:56] <pcb_maker> it is very nice size,
[05:13:05] <XXCoder> I plan to do mostly artwork
[05:13:14] <pcb_maker> my is just 17X45X cm
[05:13:15] <XXCoder> and plan to make cnc machine with it, a much larger one
[05:13:26] <pcb_maker> the Z axis is about 30cm
[05:13:49] <XXCoder> yours do have ability to mill steel or hard stuff
[05:13:49] <pcb_maker> you are from the US? NY?
[05:13:56] <XXCoder> usa, far west
[05:14:07] <XXCoder> if I walked a hour west I'd drown in inlet sea lol
[05:14:39] <pcb_maker> I've made some stuff from tool steel
[05:15:00] <Loetmichel> *meh* co worker brought in his home PC today... "it boots very slow and works like melasses"... HDD read errors by the ton... ddrescue is running. bad thing: his wife filled the 1tb disk with family pics nearly to the brim ... and no backup ;-) (so far ddrescue has done 200gb, no erros but the transfer rate breakes in to 10mb/se from 110MB/s every few mb :-( )
[05:15:26] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: ow
[05:15:31] <XXCoder> pcb_maker: dang
[05:15:35] <XXCoder> thats real tough metal
[05:15:52] <pcb_maker> Loetmichel: stop the hard drive, and clone it with clonezilla live cd
[05:16:06] <pcb_maker> go with the bit by bit option.
[05:16:31] <pcb_maker> and make sure it not skip if tere is an error.
[05:16:58] <XXCoder> finally found a cheap hard drive
[05:16:59] <pcb_maker> it's can take foooorever, but 99% you will get the data.
[05:17:06] <XXCoder> 160 gb hard drive $17 bucks
[05:17:38] <pcb_maker> Loetmichel: ^
[05:17:44] <XXCoder> heh I remember one time I had to constantly tap hard drive bearings while I was copying files off
[05:18:05] <XXCoder> if I left it few seconds it would freeze and crash os
[05:18:23] <XXCoder> hard drive felt like it had rocks inside it
[05:18:40] <pcb_maker> i have 2 hdd with backups (same data on each hdd)
[05:19:06] <pcb_maker> i have very simple way to backup.
[05:20:23] <Loetmichel> pcb_maker: i clone it with ddrescue atm
[05:20:26] <pcb_maker> I made raid 1 with 2 hard drives, and once in a while I take one hard drive out and put empty one instead and make a rebuild to the raid,
[05:20:54] <XXCoder> that works, but it wears out hard drive faster since it has to read and write entire hard drive
[05:21:02] <XXCoder> not a best backup solution
[05:22:09] <pcb_maker> but i have 4 hard drive with the same data, 2 in the computer and 2 in safe
[05:23:08] <XXCoder> I suppose first use it would be entire drive but afterwards less
[05:23:24] <pcb_maker> and I'm allwas monitor the drives, if i see some issue I take a new one,
[05:23:29] <Loetmichel> pcb_maker: tip:_ if you make a raid: use disks form different manufactureres in each set, or at least diffreent production charges
[05:23:39] <Jymmm> rdiff-backup http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/
[05:23:51] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: I wish I did lol 2 hard drives died in my raid within month of each other
[05:23:58] <pcb_maker> I have WD and seagate
[05:24:09] <XXCoder> then third one after 4 months
[05:25:30] <Jymmm> rdiff-backup - it's rsync with version control... http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/
[05:25:31] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: it can happen if you have a problem and the raid rebuild all the time. instead of send you a warning and tou need to rebuild it manually.
[05:26:22] <XXCoder> no worries it was years ago lol
[05:26:44] <pcb_maker> use HW raid, the software is nice but with HW raid you also have battery in case of a power failure
[05:27:01] <XXCoder> my pc had umm fakeraid
[05:27:08] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: i had once a wan from the server: "disk bad"
[05:27:10] <XXCoder> it worked pretty well. lasted 7 years
[05:27:20] <Loetmichel> so i got there and plugged in a spare
[05:27:32] <Jymmm> And pcb_maker has volunteered to use his credit card to buy it for us
[05:27:33] <Loetmichel> ... haldf an hour later well within rhe rebuild the nex disk died
[05:27:49] <XXCoder> loet yeah because rebuild is really stressful
[05:27:56] <Loetmichel> ... so i know why i dsaid that ;_)
[05:27:57] <pcb_maker> you can buy used server for cheap
[05:28:11] <XXCoder> Jymmm: lol
[05:28:13] <Jymmm> HW RAID60 FOR ALL!!! Thanks pcb_maker!!!
[05:28:34] <XXCoder> raid60
[05:28:43] <XXCoder> Jymmm: I want ssd raid60
[05:28:55] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you get MFM or nuttin!
[05:28:57] <XXCoder> I want it to load before I click button
[05:28:59] <pcb_maker> few years old server is very cheap.
[05:29:15] <Loetmichel> ... and some idiot had shut off the verify ion the backup tape
[05:29:23] <Loetmichel> with forseeable results ;_9
[05:29:29] <XXCoder> ouch
[05:29:50] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: I remember one story where guy misconfigured backup so all tapes was blank
[05:29:55] <XXCoder> it lasted years
[05:30:05] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Poweredge-M600-Blade-Server-2x-Quad-Core-Xeon-E5440-2-8GHz-32GB-No-HDD-/281633730759?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4192adb0c7
[05:30:17] <XXCoder> so when there was a fire, all tapes was blank and it was files where business is gone without em.. so business ois gone now
[05:30:20] <Loetmichel> i once pulled a tape out of the drive at a customer that was physically blank
[05:30:30] <Loetmichel> meaning you could look thru it ;-)
[05:30:45] <XXCoder> sad because they backed up very often and had 2 off site tape backup
[05:30:52] <XXCoder> all blank'
[05:31:19] <Loetmichel> XXCoder. THAT is waht bverifyx is for
[05:31:23] <Loetmichel> verify
[05:31:26] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:31:37] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-R5500-Dual-Xeon-E5620-4CORE-2-4Ghz-12GB-Ram-2x250GB-SATA-RACK-MNT-/381320541018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c879b35a
[05:31:42] <pcb_maker> sata !
[05:31:45] <Jymmm> Backup all you want. It's not till you do test restores on a regular basis will you know if you have something.
[05:31:53] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:32:03] <XXCoder> btw windows backup sucks
[05:32:07] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: testing resores is even better than verify ;-9
[05:32:11] <XXCoder> my backup was nonworking
[05:32:19] <XXCoder> thankfully important files worked fine
[05:32:23] <XXCoder> so yeah
[05:32:43] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I've had verifies "PASS" and in reality TOTALLY FAIL
[05:33:04] <pcb_maker> now you just need to looking for one that come with raid controller, sometime with battray.
[05:34:24] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkserver-RD430-2U-server-2-2ghz-E5-2407-8gb-SATA-SAS-RAID-RAILS-/291504503019?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43df05b8eb
[05:34:36] <XXCoder> pcb_maker: we are not looking for servers
[05:34:44] <pcb_maker> this is more than fine fore home backup
[05:34:48] <pcb_maker> for*
[05:34:49] * Loetmichel just pulled a 1tb sata disk out of a server for the co-worker
[05:35:10] <Loetmichel> ... which sits on the rack here as they were gifted by a firend and are not uses atm ;-9
[05:35:23] <Loetmichel> so you cvan get working servers for free if you know who to ask
[05:35:34] <Loetmichel> they discarded them on a üpallet
[05:35:37] <Loetmichel> pallet
[05:35:50] <XXCoder> yeah with right connections
[05:35:56] <XXCoder> I never have any good connection
[05:36:04] <Loetmichel> the friend called me "anna have sme?= they go to the trash other wise"?
[05:36:16] <Loetmichel> he works a t a german ISP
[05:36:18] <pcb_maker> I've sent is to give you an example of very ceap servers with raid.
[05:36:51] <pcb_maker> [06:04] <Jymmm> And pcb_maker has volunteered to use his credit card to buy it for us
[05:36:56] <Loetmichel> and i just said that i am not short of servers or storage ;)
[05:37:10] <Loetmichel> the 1he servers are REALLY loud tho
[05:37:37] <XXCoder> man I wish i didn't buy cnc router with 43mm diameter spindle holder
[05:37:47] <XXCoder> routers is almost all 52mm or larger
[05:39:04] <Loetmichel> not if it the "euro norm flange" on the router ;)=
[05:39:11] <Loetmichel> thenits exactly 43mm
[05:39:46] <pcb_maker> Loetmichel: 1, you dont have to use 100% fa power, 2, you can modifay the cooling system, 3 if you are gonig to use it as storage unit it will be quiet anyway,4, you can use just one cpu system and reduce the noise even more,
[05:39:52] <pcb_maker> fan*
[05:40:01] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: any spindles with it?
[05:41:19] <Loetmichel> pcb_maker. our secondary server rack is right across my "manager booth" here in the production floor
[05:42:10] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15416&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[05:42:13] <Loetmichel> ups
[05:42:17] <Loetmichel> wrong window
[05:42:50] <Loetmichel> or bnot, that was for pcb_maker
[05:43:16] <Loetmichel> XXCoder. no, that 43mm flange is made for wood router motors
[05:43:22] <Loetmichel> used as spindles
[05:43:30] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: and ones that fit it is rare
[05:43:39] <pcb_maker> Some one need to kill the IT manager!
[05:43:43] <XXCoder> I has one but it has tabs so it cant fit inside
[05:46:07] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: hold the spindle temporarily with hose clamps and cut with it a mount for 52mm
[05:46:39] <XXCoder> pcb_maker: I ordered router for it so it will be fine
[05:46:49] <XXCoder> thankfully so cheap 35 bucks
[05:46:58] <XXCoder> its probably crap but good enough for a while
[05:47:10] <pcb_maker> 35 for spindle!?
[05:47:23] <pcb_maker> or the mount?
[05:47:49] <XXCoder> router
[05:47:57] <pcb_maker> LINK!
[05:48:00] <XXCoder> the normal router
[05:48:24] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-Air-Cooled-Miling-motor-AC-220V-Spindle-Motor-with-6mm-collet/1903872955.html
[05:48:30] <pcb_maker> i have end mills that cost more than that!
[05:49:06] <XXCoder> its made for grinding but rpm is fine for wood, and with right ipm, alum
[05:49:12] <trentster> Anyone here using cyclonic dust seperators?
[05:49:26] <XXCoder> trentster: lol thats one of stuff I wanted to build.
[05:49:35] <XXCoder> check out woodgears.ca
[05:49:47] <pcb_maker> no, but i want to make one, for PVC machining,
[05:50:04] <pcb_maker> I have the plans for it.
[05:50:15] <trentster> XXCoder: yeah - I looked at building one myself I think the same site using poly sheet - worked out very expensive.
[05:50:35] <pcb_maker> I have an imaje with plan from yearss ago.
[05:50:39] <XXCoder> theres other using scrap metal sheets
[05:50:44] <XXCoder> cheaper
[05:51:07] <trentster> I bought a little fong kong small unit it works like a dream that is until the acrylic sheet I used for the lid for the bucket cracked from too much vacuum / flex pressure
[05:52:04] <XXCoder> woodgears one http://woodgears.ca/reader/walters/cyclone.html
[05:52:15] <XXCoder> trentster: whats wrong with just milling new lid
[05:52:18] <XXCoder> thicker metal
[05:52:21] <trentster> This is the one to build if you are going to go the DIY route http://www.floweringelbow.org/projects/the-cyclone-dust-separator/cyclonic-dust-separator-overview/
[05:52:26] <trentster> but complex
[05:53:37] <trentster> xxcoder I did mill a new lid out of mdf but its not working as well as the acrylic one I think I made it too thick and somehow the bucket inlet height seems to effect the cyclonic action, - thought perhaps someone here would know
[05:55:04] <XXCoder> maybe make sure it is positioned same as orginial
[05:55:14] <pcb_maker> but most of the time the chips just build up
[05:55:54] <pcb_maker> so you dont have to worry about that at least at the beginning
[05:56:44] <trentster> pcb_maker: its not the chips I am worried about its the dust - especially the stuff you can not see like mdf dust (proven carcinogenic)
[05:57:19] <trentster> plus with a cyclone seperator the stuff never gets to your shop vac so you basically you never need to change bags or put new filters in
[05:57:25] <XXCoder> trentster: did you see woodgears air filter system?
[05:57:33] <XXCoder> it uses one of those cheap house filters
[05:57:38] <trentster> XXCoder: no
[05:57:56] <pcb_maker> trentster: for that you can use regular vacuum like the ridgid
[05:58:02] <XXCoder> http://woodgears.ca/dust/air_cleaner.html
[05:58:06] <trentster> XXCoder: oh yeah I looked at that site first - heh
[05:58:41] <trentster> way too complex a project - did you see the woodgears mark 2
[05:58:51] <trentster> with the pvc pipe
[05:58:55] <XXCoder> yeah that ones interesting
[05:59:04] <trentster> The one I bought is pretty much identical to that in a lot of ways
[05:59:05] <XXCoder> he also did quick and dirty one using house insulation
[05:59:10] <XXCoder> it worked better for while lol
[06:00:40] <trentster> http://monosnap.com/image/8AOMtSbbOR3vBk53Zs0LwHQ7KIApdO
[06:00:54] <trentster> $50 AUD
[06:01:13] <XXCoder> that looks something like usa money sign sticker on it lol
[06:01:46] <trentster> yeah like I said - fong kong
[06:01:48] <trentster> :P
[06:01:59] <XXCoder> lol
[06:03:01] <pcb_maker> trentster: and XXCoder if you are going to to cutting jobs you have very short time of running so regular vaccume will work fine, for 3d machining and hours of running it's better to use some thing that build to havey duty work, if you using fludding your not going to get almost any dust,
[06:03:15] <pcb_maker> to do*
[06:03:26] <XXCoder> I plan to just use shop vacuum for first few stuff
[06:03:39] <XXCoder> evenually build mount for holding vacuum near bit
[06:06:45] <trentster> yeah I am busy building spindle vacuum enclosure at the moment - found tons of 7mm acrylic sheet in some aluminium doors - using that - there are a lot of designs floating round the net
[06:07:49] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: but you have 30X40 machine, it is very small machine, you are going to power up the vaccume cleaner just to get few spons of chips, in 5 min running? just use a paint brush and save the noise and the electricity
[06:08:13] <XXCoder> 30x40 mm? its larger than that
[06:08:18] <XXCoder> 300x400mm
[06:08:26] <pcb_maker> 30X40 CM
[06:08:33] <XXCoder> oh
[06:09:11] <XXCoder> yeah gonna vaccum up since making artwork means so much chips
[06:10:06] * Jymmm sighs... just shut down the NAS box. Now it's eerly quiet
[06:10:08] <pcb_maker> and become deaf ..
[06:10:25] <XXCoder> heh world has always been silient for me
[06:10:28] <XXCoder> for last 39 years
[06:10:45] <Jymmm> XXCoder: WHAT?! Can't hear ya!!!
[06:11:03] <pcb_maker> sorry to hear that :(
[06:11:07] <XXCoder> why?
[06:11:28] <XXCoder> feel sorry for my lack of smelling ability because that sucks MUCH worse than being deaf lol
[06:11:50] <Jymmm> XXCoder: can you taste anythign at least?
[06:12:02] <XXCoder> Jymmm: well thats where oddity comes in
[06:12:15] <XXCoder> most people who cant smell lost 3/4 of tasting ability
[06:12:21] <XXCoder> I lost some but not as much
[06:12:33] <Jymmm> thats cool at least
[06:12:42] <XXCoder> I think being deaf and inability to smell ramped up tasting ability so much
[06:12:52] <Jymmm> WOW.... I can hear myself typing now... strange as hell
[06:12:59] <XXCoder> if I somehow magically got smelling I would be superchef
[06:13:21] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Maybe you can be one of those uber tasters with a golden spoon
[06:13:28] <XXCoder> 180 degree vision is WAY annoying
[06:13:59] <XXCoder> its closer to 190 but edges dont give me much detail
[06:14:00] <trentster> XXCoder: always deaf or something that developed?
[06:14:06] <XXCoder> always
[06:14:23] <XXCoder> waardingberg syndome (mispelled)
[06:15:03] <pcb_maker> there is a solution to it?
[06:15:18] <XXCoder> yeah. bad solution
[06:15:26] <trentster> There is a ton of vibrations round cnc machines, I suppose it can be interpreted like sound - to know whats going on.
[06:15:38] <XXCoder> theres implants but since I grew up dwaf my brain never really develped hearing centers
[06:15:45] <XXCoder> I will never get to level of hearing person
[06:15:54] <pcb_maker> the Cochlear_implant?
[06:15:56] <XXCoder> trent yeah I use that at work
[06:15:58] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:16:54] <trentster> makes machining blissfull vacs and spindles and chatter all gone away!
[06:17:04] <XXCoder> lol
[06:17:10] <trentster> pro's and cons of every situation
[06:17:16] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:17:29] <XXCoder> july of 4th to me is same as any other day sleep wise lol
[06:17:32] <XXCoder> fireworks
[06:17:59] <XXCoder> on flip side if fireworks land and set house on fire I wouldnt smell it either lol
[06:18:02] <trentster> plus you don't have to be paranoid like me whenever I hear an odd noise I convince myself that a stepper coupler is gonna snap etc - it happened once now I wait for it to happen again :P
[06:18:02] <pcb_maker> you can use air turbine spindle!!
[06:18:06] * Jymmm wires the stereo to a stun gun and applies to XXCoder.... CAN YOU FEEL THE POWER!!! I knew that you could!
[06:18:13] <XXCoder> lol
[06:18:15] <pcb_maker> 100-400K RPM
[06:18:35] <XXCoder> turbine spindle interesting thats new to me
[06:18:46] <XXCoder> geared down it would be hell of powerful spindle.
[06:19:12] <pcb_maker> like the dental but much bigger and stronger,
[06:19:37] <pcb_maker> and noooiiiiseee like craazyyy
[06:19:56] <XXCoder> lol well still has neighbors:)
[06:20:31] <pcb_maker> but you will need carzy feed rate also
[06:20:44] <XXCoder> I bet
[06:21:15] <pcb_maker> I can go up to 12M /m
[06:22:30] <pcb_maker> but the it's very scary and the whole house shaking, so I've limit it to 1000 mm m
[06:22:45] <pcb_maker> 1000mm/m
[06:22:58] <XXCoder> dunno what my cnc router ipm limit would be
[06:23:24] <XXCoder> who wanted air collector? forgot which lol
[06:23:24] <XXCoder> http://woodgears.ca/reader/marius/dust_collector.html
[06:23:31] <XXCoder> big one using metal sheet
[06:23:45] <Loetmichel> tenst: hihi, i know that feeling
[06:23:52] <Loetmichel> trentster
[06:24:03] <XXCoder> mis-ding bad boy loet lol
[06:24:15] <pcb_maker> but normal machining it's about 10-200 mm/m other way the end mill will damaged
[06:24:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14193
[06:24:26] <Loetmichel> the chinese couplers are just bad
[06:24:49] <pcb_maker> OCD http://woodgears.ca/reader/marius/dc29.jpg
[06:25:14] <XXCoder> I would use saw or something
[06:25:30] <Loetmichel> if you have no saw... a drill works... ;-)
[06:25:43] <trentster> Loetmichel: hehe I have a few that look like that - I need to buy oldham style or better quality but I battle to find the right size for my screw / stepper 8mm to 12mm seems to be a non-regular combination.
[06:25:47] <pcb_maker> Loetmichel: I'm using the Ruland couplers
[06:26:21] <pcb_maker> and you have to use torque meter to select the correct one.
[06:26:22] <Loetmichel> ten: i bougt replacements and turned them to fit in the lathe
[06:26:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15011
[06:26:40] <Loetmichel> tren
[06:26:43] <Loetmichel> trentster
[06:27:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15014 <- works perfectly now ;)
[06:27:22] <Loetmichel> but all three original couplers broke after less than a year of near daily use
[06:27:40] <trentster> nice - I don't own a lathe unfortunately :-(
[06:28:24] <trentster> I suppose a solution is to buy 1x 12mm to 12mm and 1 8mm to 8mm and combine them
[06:29:10] <pcb_maker> use torque mete to test the axis.
[06:29:27] <trentster> pcb_maker: that sounds expensive
[06:29:32] <pcb_maker> and only after that buy something.
[06:29:58] <XXCoder> trentster: not really buy 2 each
[06:30:01] <XXCoder> you will have 4
[06:30:05] <XXCoder> 3 plus spare
[06:30:05] <Loetmichel> trentster: i made a few coupelers for a dc spindle myself
[06:30:11] <Loetmichel> woks also
[06:30:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[06:30:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12821
[06:30:45] <trentster> where is a good place to buy decentish couplers at a decent price?
[06:30:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12834&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[06:31:06] <Loetmichel> i made them myself
[06:31:13] <Loetmichel> tzhe PE was a bad idea tho
[06:31:31] <Loetmichel> had to swich to rubber for the cross
[06:32:03] <trentster> Loetmichel: nice! - with the right tools all things are possible.
[06:32:18] <pcb_maker> the It's look very nice!!!
[06:32:26] <XXCoder> one weird idea of mine is to use flex connector to connect big spindle to holder on cnc router
[06:32:34] <Loetmichel> btw: THAT is ma "lathe" -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12794
[06:32:41] <trentster> Loetmichel: why do you have such bad chatter marks on the aluminium motor mount?
[06:32:42] <XXCoder> but im very sure flex causes power losses
[06:33:36] <Loetmichel> trentster: to much hurry (feedrate MUCH tooo high)
[06:34:09] <pcb_maker> this is the HF lathe?
[06:34:29] <XXCoder> is 8 gb enough for linuxcnc? lol (hard drive)
[06:34:54] <Loetmichel> pcb_maker: thats a C0 lathe, sold by harbor freight and about half a million others ;.)
[06:35:00] <pcb_maker> go with small SSD
[06:35:17] <XXCoder> trying to find one for less than $20
[06:35:37] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-mSATA-Solid-SDSA3DD-032G-Tablet/dp/B007IXF3W2/ref=sr_1_785?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1436353953&sr=1-785&keywords=ssd lol
[06:36:37] <trentster> any suggestions for aplace to buy couplers?
[06:37:55] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: the SSD that you send is for laptop
[06:38:01] <XXCoder> I know
[06:38:14] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: you are using a laptop?
[06:38:29] <XXCoder> nah, just was commenting on it
[06:38:54] <XXCoder> nothing beats this though http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00272NHPO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A1W31EX4NKZD3X
[06:39:00] <XXCoder> besides one with really bad reviews
[06:39:39] <pcb_maker> trentster, http://www.ruland.com
[06:39:45] <XXCoder> that ones not too great reviews
[06:41:55] <Loetmichel> ahem... we still have about 200 80g sata1 maxtor hdd drives in storage here
[06:42:00] <Loetmichel> new old stock ;)
[06:42:08] <XXCoder> lol
[06:42:08] <Loetmichel> origibal sealed
[06:42:46] <trentster> pcb_maker: thanks
[06:42:48] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: there is a small ssd 16-64 GB very cheap.
[06:42:53] <Loetmichel> some predecessor of me had ordered them before the order from the custemer were in
[06:43:02] <XXCoder> pcb_maker: at amazon?
[06:43:13] <Loetmichel> it were 350 pcs at that time we couldnt sent back after the customer cancelled the order...
[06:43:39] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: painful. try sell em on amazon or something? if cheap enough I would grab em
[06:43:46] <Loetmichel> and we paid ~30 euir for each disk ;-)
[06:44:01] <Loetmichel> eur
[06:45:12] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: boss is a bit reluctant to sell them at a loss
[06:45:28] <pcb_maker> trentster: but don't buy anything before testing the torque, you can use and arm with small scale, than calculate the torque and double or triple it, and this is the torque that you should take
[06:45:28] <XXCoder> well 80 gb is small now
[06:45:29] <Loetmichel> he dosent get that we will NEVER get them out until we sell them cheap
[06:45:32] <XXCoder> try in 10 years lol
[06:46:17] <Loetmichel> we already managed to sell 50 of them to customer recently
[06:46:22] <Loetmichel> for quite a markup
[06:46:40] <Loetmichel> but i doubt bnoss will be able to sell all 200 still in stock ;-)
[06:46:41] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: what type so you want? IDE? Sata? PCI?
[06:46:49] <XXCoder> sata
[06:47:09] <pcb_maker> 1.8? 2.5? 3.5?
[06:47:23] <Loetmichel> and we tend to use them in any test system here we are building
[06:47:46] <XXCoder> dont really care on size really as long as usable with sata in pc
[06:47:52] <Loetmichel> pcb_maker: irrelevant for a linuxCNC desktop/tower PC
[06:48:01] <Loetmichel> but where do you get 3,5"! ssd?
[06:48:17] <Loetmichel> we have 3 here, but from the beginnings of SSD bnanufacturing
[06:48:24] <Loetmichel> never seen a 3.5" since then
[06:48:42] <pcb_maker> Loetmichel: the old SSD and the Very big one some times come in 3.5
[06:48:59] <XXCoder> bit of WTF http://www.amazon.com/KingDian-Internal-Upgrade-Desktop-MacPro/dp/B00WQZCTT2/ref=sr_1_121?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1436354736&sr=1-121&keywords=ssd+sata+-pcie+-carry+-hand+-portable+-enclosure
[06:49:06] <XXCoder> it says for SATA II
[06:49:12] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kingspec-32GB-2-5-SATAIII-SATA3-SSD-MLC-NADA-Fr-laptop-PC-SAMSUNG-IBM-Notebook-/111707188531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1a02446d33
[06:49:13] <XXCoder> but interface dont look like SATA type
[06:50:04] <trentster> pcb_maker: I dont have a torque meter - so not gonna be an easy feat
[06:51:55] <XXCoder> how many gb do linuxcnc need to confortable run in>
[06:52:03] <XXCoder> 1 gb? :P 1 TB?
[06:53:02] <pcb_maker> hold a vise grip and measure the distance between the axis to the and and press on it with kitchen scale,
[06:53:11] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/lite-on-128GB-SSD-sata-3-Lcs-128L9s-hp-hp-p-n-763649-001-/111712938309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1a029c2945
[06:53:17] <XXCoder> umm risky? lol
[06:54:03] <pcb_maker> Do it when you have some resistance on the axis or machining something
[06:54:19] <malcom2073> XXCoder: 30 days money back, just SMART test it to see if it's really low use :P
[06:54:25] <pcb_maker> what so risky in 10 sec test?
[06:54:28] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yea
[06:54:46] <pcb_maker> trentster: ^
[06:55:06] <trentster> pcb_maker: That ruland site is very extensive - I think I need to research what type of coupler I need and the difference between all the different types they have and the different material available for the disks inbetween the hubs
[06:55:15] <trentster> its all very overwhelming
[06:55:19] <trentster> ;-)
[06:55:23] <pcb_maker> http://www.calculatoredge.com/new/torque.htm
[06:56:25] <pcb_maker> trentster: i have the spider coupling, but you need to select the correct spider, I'm using the red one,
[06:57:41] <trentster> pcb_maker: I dont see spider coupling type there?
[06:57:43] <pcb_maker> trentster: you dont really need the stainless stuff and all the other, it is just for high speed and high torque
[06:58:08] <pcb_maker> http://www.ruland.com/ps_couplings_jaw.asp#about
[06:58:15] <trentster> aah jaw coupling
[06:58:25] <pcb_maker> yep :)
[06:58:49] <trentster> out of interest what do they cost?
[06:59:03] <trentster> +-
[07:00:37] <pcb_maker> I get them for about 200 for 3 couplers.
[07:01:51] <pcb_maker> trentster: but i have 1hp servo motor for each axis
[07:02:18] <pcb_maker> you will need something much much smaller.
[07:03:06] <pcb_maker> actually 3.5 hp peak
[07:03:37] <pcb_maker> trentster: what is the shaft diameter?
[07:04:08] <pcb_maker> I have 1/2 in shaft
[07:04:28] <trentster> I work metric here one end is 8mm other is 12mm
[07:04:52] <XXCoder> is 32 gb enough for linuxcnc?
[07:05:13] <trentster> XXCoder: its more than enough
[07:05:23] <XXCoder> site says 4 gb is plenty
[07:05:26] <trentster> 8GB would be fine
[07:05:28] <XXCoder> as well as buy 8 gb one
[07:05:40] <pcb_maker> http://www.ruland.com/shaft-coupling.php?recordID=MJS25-8-A
[07:06:23] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: use usb stick + ram drive.
[07:06:42] <XXCoder> nah prefer internal storage
[07:06:50] <XXCoder> dont worry found pretty darn cheap on
[07:07:20] <pcb_maker> http://www.ruland.com/shaft-coupling.php?recordID=MJS25-12-A
[07:07:31] <trentster> pcb_maker: wow they are expensive - so for a single stepper I would need 2 x $25 hubs and + 1 spider - so will be like $75 a pop
[07:08:11] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: just don't buy a used ssd
[07:08:22] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/KingDian-SATA-II-Internal-Upgrade/dp/B00W4S88QY/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1436355910&sr=1-4&keywords=SATA3+gb+ssd+8GB+-carrying+-hand+-enclosure
[07:08:39] <pcb_maker> trentster: but it's the best that you can buy.
[07:09:08] <pcb_maker> KingDian
[07:09:38] <trentster> pcb_maker: I believe you but if money was no object I probably would not have hobbled together and built my own machine - I would have gotten a shopbot or something
[07:10:24] <trentster> pcb_maker: but thanks for the info and the url's tho - they have been bookmarked
[07:10:36] <trentster> for now the fong kong stuff will have to suffice ;-)
[07:10:56] <XXCoder> double space for little more than 3 bucks
[07:10:57] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Finerolls-Kingdian-Reliability-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B00ZZA4MW2/ref=sr_1_23?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1436355981&sr=1-23&keywords=SATA3+gb+ssd+8GB+-carrying+-hand+-enclosure
[07:12:30] <trentster> XXCoder: I am probably gonna get flamed for this, but you could always just test with a $4 Arduino and GRBL before going the whole hog etc. Especially if cost is such a big consideration.
[07:12:55] <pcb_maker> DATA+Finerolls-Kingdian + Zero reviews = GOD know.
[07:13:03] <XXCoder> trentster: I already has computer and all, just need hard drive for it
[07:13:16] <XXCoder> I dont want to use old hard drive as its backup
[07:13:22] <trentster> XXCoder: does it pass the latency tests
[07:13:24] <pcb_maker> go to goodwill
[07:13:38] <pcb_maker> you will get HDD almost for free
[07:13:45] <XXCoder> trentster: it may be 9 years old but it was very high end system back then
[07:14:19] <trentster> XXCoder: that means nothing - the latency can be tricky
[07:14:37] <XXCoder> true but same time I has backup - the laptop I installed linuxcnc on lol
[07:14:48] <XXCoder> its old desktop replacement - 14 years old I guess now
[07:14:53] <XXCoder> no, 12
[07:15:10] <XXCoder> anyway night :)
[07:15:13] <trentster> At least with an arduino you will get a guaranteed 30kHz of stable, jitter free control pulses guaranteed
[07:15:29] <trentster> you can then make sure your pc is ok before going the linuxcnc route
[07:16:14] <pcb_maker> you want it justfor linux cnc?
[07:16:45] <trentster> pcb_maker: ?
[07:17:21] <pcb_maker> just for*
[07:17:25] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compact-Flash-CF-to-Serial-ATA-SATA-Adapter-Converter-PS-/221773938512?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a2c1bf50
[07:18:05] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Speed-8GB-Compact-Flash-Compactflash-CF-Memory-Card-for-DSLR-Camera-2015-/371368941223?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item56775056a7
[07:19:53] <pcb_maker> XXCoder: 3.5+8=11.5$ for 8GB Sata
[07:37:01] <Valen> mesa
[07:39:40] <pcb_maker> Valen: ?
[07:40:49] <pcb_maker> what about mesa?
[07:44:04] <cpresser> black mesa. he works there
[07:47:02] <Valen> heh
[07:47:24] <Valen> if you want hardware pulsegen use mesa
[07:47:33] <Valen> it "just works" with linuxcnc
[07:47:43] <Valen> and they have one now that is actually pretty cheap
[07:51:38] <Valen> yeah this one http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=55
[07:53:11] <pcb_maker> what is the "w8" in the cuttine bits title"
[07:53:20] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Tone-25mm-x-10mm-Diamond-Coated-Tip-40mm-Glass-Hole-Saw-Cutter-Bit-W8-/321791175277?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4aec3faa6d
[07:56:19] <trentster> Valen: those mesa FPGA cards look very nice - I never knew about them. You have to use them with specific paired breakout boards right?
[07:57:51] <Valen> eh kinda
[07:57:55] <Valen> well not really
[07:58:01] <Valen> they just make it easier
[08:00:53] <trentster> Valen: so if you use a mesa fpga - local latency pc test is irrelevant?
[08:02:04] <Valen> not quite
[08:02:08] <Valen> but much less so
[08:02:25] <trentster> darn! - I was hoping answer would be a resounding yes
[08:02:27] <Valen> the FPGA generates the pulses so the high speed part isn't an issue any more
[08:02:37] <Valen> only the servo thread matters then I think
[08:02:58] <Valen> so if you have like 180msec latecny spikes that'd still be bad
[08:03:10] <Valen> but you don't need to worry so much about 30k latency
[08:03:43] <trentster> Valen: thanks - that makes sense.
[08:04:18] <trentster> This whole reliance on parallel ports still seems a bit archaic to me :P
[08:04:33] <Valen> pcw_ / pcw_home_ works at mesa, he knows all there is to know
[08:07:53] <trentster> he is like the oracle in the matrix then :P
[08:09:23] <_methods> http://www.neatorama.com/2015/07/08/Fugitive-Asks-Police-to-Post-a-Better-Photo-of-Him-on-Facebook/
[08:20:33] <Valen> trentster: he is more like the architect trentster
[08:26:29] <_methods> the cnc/industrial automation industry is centered around PROVEN technology that is reliable
[08:26:41] <_methods> they don't change until things are known to work
[08:28:25] <_methods> safety tends to be valued very highly
[08:28:49] <_methods> most people don't like losing limbs or that whole death thing
[08:28:52] <trentster> _methods: and so it should be
[08:29:09] <trentster> yeah the death thing tends to ruin ones day
[08:29:24] <_methods> and then some when OSHA shows up
[08:29:34] <trentster> osha?
[08:30:03] <_methods> it's a united states thing
[08:30:12] <_methods> occupational safety and health
[08:30:15] <malcom2073> USA workplace safety organization
[08:30:26] <_methods> when there is an incident in a work place they come investigate
[08:30:51] <_methods> especially for a fatality lol
[08:32:06] <trentster> aaah yeah
[08:32:12] <_methods> one of the shipyards here just got naild for over $150,000 lol
[08:33:01] <trentster> then you have to explain yourself - and tell them why you did not use a parallel port to control the machine and why you decided to send control pulses over wifi :P
[08:33:48] <_methods> yeah wifi lol
[08:34:45] <malcom2073> Hey question about the mesaboard. You still need a fairly jitter free servo thread, is that because the mesa doesn't buffer commands?
[08:38:35] <cradek> yes you need to communicate with it predictably because the commands are like "for the next millisecond [servo cycle] do this"
[08:40:49] <malcom2073> Ah
[08:41:41] <malcom2073> How far can you increase the servo cycle?
[08:42:38] <cradek> malcom2073: it depends very much on your hardware
[08:43:52] <cradek> malcom2073: very high performance machines like linear motors might need several (10?) kHz. old heavy/stout machines had servo update cycles as slow as 100 Hz
[08:44:13] <malcom2073> I mean would making it slower account for slower PC hardware, or does it still need to be really close in timing, regardless of how long between cycles?
[08:44:15] <cradek> I bet almost all linuxcnc users use a 1kHz servo cycle
[08:44:37] <malcom2073> I mean would it account for higher jitter
[08:45:25] <cradek> I guess there is a tradeoff between proportional jitter and rate
[08:45:39] <cradek> I don't know all the tradeoffs but I bet 1kHz will work for you :-)
[08:47:02] <malcom2073> I was looking at mesa, but I've heard it's more for faster step rate than for allowing less realtime computers to operate
[08:47:32] <malcom2073> I've not been able to find really any information about how it works under the hood
[08:47:45] <malcom2073> And from a tinkerers standpoint, I'm curious anyway :P
[08:48:01] <cradek> most machines have fine realtime performance
[08:48:12] <cradek> use a 5 year old box you've got sitting in your basement and it'll work fine
[08:48:23] <cradek> if not, just try another one
[08:49:19] <trentster> cradek: does that work fine mean even a machine with 35-50ms latency?
[08:49:41] <cradek> yes that's totally fine for a normal 1kHz servo cycle
[08:49:41] <pcb_maker_> hi
[08:50:27] <cradek> wait do you mean 50 us?
[08:50:43] <cradek> 50 ms is totally broken
[08:51:07] <trentster> yeah I meant "us" heh
[08:51:08] <cradek> a servo cycle is 1ms
[08:51:14] <cradek> skipping 50 of them in a row would be bad
[08:51:27] <_methods> lol
[08:52:10] <cradek> do you see that 50us is only 2% jitter on a 1kHz servo cycle
[08:52:41] <trentster> so what does 30kHz of stable control pulses equate to - what kind of reliable microstepping numbers?
[08:56:20] <trentster> or is that like asking how long is a piece of string?
[08:56:27] <cradek> haha exactly
[08:56:34] <cradek> "how long is a stick" is the expression I'm familiar with
[08:56:55] <cradek> but string is better, because there can be more variation
[08:58:38] <trentster> lol
[08:59:06] <pcb_maker_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWi9GUzY1fY
[09:05:28] <trentster> pcb_maker_: wow thats incredibly precise machining!
[09:06:43] <pcb_maker_> the way that it's put the parts - just amazing
[09:07:49] <malcom2073> Really slow though, hate to see it try to do a couple of hundred component board heh
[09:09:01] <trentster> malcom2073: its for prototyping
[09:09:06] <trentster> not mass production
[09:09:41] <malcom2073> trentster Sure, but no reason not to use say, a delta (firepick) :-D
[09:10:07] <malcom2073> I like the sturdyness of the machine though
[09:10:10] <malcom2073> looks like it's built solid
[09:12:39] <trentster> yeah its a very solid machine - not sure why they still using analog stepper drivers - digital drivers are so much better sounding and smoother.
[09:13:22] <malcom2073> Are they? What drivers are they using?
[09:13:49] <trentster> I dunno but I can hear the steppers are analog driven
[09:14:39] <malcom2073> $3000, sounds about right for what it is
[09:15:01] <malcom2073> Though pcb fab/assembly is getting cheaper and cheaper heh
[09:17:55] <trentster> yeah it sure is!
[09:18:29] <trentster> Has anyone seen videos of microcnc machines milling with diamond bits like cutting custom contact lenses etc?
[09:18:30] <merlag> Hello, I was wondering if someone has knowledge about differential line recievers? I am trying to use an encoder with differential outputs but my board can only use single ended signals.
[09:18:37] <trentster> I would be interested to see how thats done
[09:18:46] <malcom2073> I keep telling myself I'll get a soldering oven... but by the time I get around to it, it probably won't be worth it heh
[09:19:59] <pcw_home> You can usually use just one of the differential signals with a single ended receiver
[09:20:18] <furrywolf> merlan: often you just need to connect one of them and leave the other floating
[09:21:48] <merlag> Ok, thanks, I had done some research and found a thread on the forum that recommended using a differential line receiver, and that got me nervous since I don't have experience using them.
[09:22:05] <furrywolf> yes, you can do it fancier if you want to spend more money. :)
[09:22:16] <furrywolf> if you have a long run of cable or such, then using differential is probably a good idea.
[09:27:49] <trentster> Should input pins for inductive proximity sensors "NO" type have a small capacitor added to help with false alarm triggers?
[09:28:22] <furrywolf> I'd say no, as the sensor should have any needed filtering built into its own electronics.
[09:28:53] <furrywolf> you might want to read the manual/datasheet, app notes, etc for the sensor you're using.
[09:29:08] <pcw_home> also these are normally run at 24V so noise is not a big issue
[09:30:34] <trentster> furrywolf: pcw_home I am using these cheapies http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SN04-N-DC10-30V-4mm-Noncontact-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Approach-Switch-NPN-NC-/390999212586
[09:31:08] <trentster> running them off a seperate 12V power supply which has common ground with 5V power supply to breakout baord
[09:31:14] <pcw_home> it also depends on what is receiving the signal, if its fed directly into a micro or parallel port pin where 30 ns noise spikes are sensed
[09:31:16] <pcw_home> you may need filtering
[09:31:44] <trentster> pcw_home: so what should I use for filtering - if I need it?
[09:32:03] <pcw_home> if you are using linuxcnc you can debounce the signals and remove most impulse noise
[09:32:56] <trentster> yeah thats a fix but what is a way to filter correctly, add a capacitor to each input pin?
[09:32:56] <pcw_home> do the go to OPTOs on the breakout? These act as low pass filters to some extent
[09:33:20] <pcw_home> yeah thats one way
[09:34:03] <pcw_home> also NPN type Proximity switches need pull-ups
[09:34:07] <trentster> The breakout board I have is not great I was told by someone here that the opto's have been wired the wrong way on the breakout.
[09:35:53] <trentster> pcw_home: do you know of any good resources or url that explain the correct way to do this or wire it - my electronic Fu is not strong ;-)
[09:38:10] <pcw_home> google "wiring proximity switches" ?
[09:38:40] <trentster> ok - let me ask this - are NPN sensors a good or bad idea to use for homing?
[09:39:18] <pcw_home> really depends on how you inputs are setup
[09:39:27] <pcw_home> your
[09:39:53] <gonzo__> pcw_home, Peter.... Am I correct in thinking that the std hm2 fpga images have the mapping of the i/o for the various state machines (stepper/encoder etc) are all hard coded to particular ports on the 5oway IDC's ?
[09:40:16] <pcw_home> if the inputs have pullups and sense connections to ground NPN is appropriate
[09:41:23] <pcw_home> gonzo__: yes the secondary function of pins is hardwired (primary function is GPIO and all pins can be GPIO)
[09:42:07] <trentster> pcw_home: thanks
[09:42:44] <gonzo__> ok. so I need to breakout the 50way IDCs if I want to select which i/o drivers on the cards are mapped to the state machines in the fpgd card.
[09:44:58] <pcw_home> well that or make a new config thats pinned-out the way you like
[09:45:18] <gonzo__> thnaks. Just checking that I was not complicating it by trying to do in HW what could be coinfiguired in sw!
[09:45:39] <gonzo__> I'll probably stick with the std images for now!
[09:46:00] <pcw_home> well it is configured in software ( but at compile time )
[09:48:20] <membiblio> Hello
[09:49:01] <membiblio> Issue with Joint 2 of a machine trying to run linuxcnc demo says joint 2 which is Z axix for this machine - out of machine boundary
[09:50:48] <membiblio> I choose Run Anyway and it says line 11 - Linear move on line 11 would exceed joint 2's positive limit.
[09:51:19] <membiblio> So the demo is routing out LinuxCNC which is basically flat - how would it be exceeding joint 2's max positive axis?
[09:51:46] <ssi> scaling
[09:51:53] <membiblio> Line 11 says G0 Z3.0
[09:51:58] <ssi> or however you have your Z axis set up
[09:52:13] <ssi> if your Z starts at 0 and goes negative, then 3 definitely exceeds your positive limit
[09:54:52] <membiblio> Ok so I do have a negative number for MIN_LIMIT = -60.0
[09:55:06] <ssi> what's your max limit
[09:55:07] <membiblio> For that joint which is Z
[09:55:10] <ssi> 0?
[09:55:26] <membiblio> My Max Limit = 0.01
[09:55:40] <ssi> so, is 3.0 greater than 0.01?
[09:56:06] <ssi> jog down to -3.1 or deeper, and then touch off Z
[09:56:24] <ssi> then your positive Z limit will be greater than the program requires
[09:56:57] <cradek> in later versions of linuxcnc we changed the simulated machine's configuration so you don't have to understand touch-off to run it
[09:56:58] <membiblio> Ok let me try that and then to understand what that is doing.
[09:57:13] <cradek> however, understanding touch-off is still important of course
[09:58:30] <membiblio> So I jogged down to -3.5700 and then press TOUCH OFF ?
[09:58:39] <cradek> yes
[09:58:56] <cradek> 0, the default value, is fine, click ok
[09:59:04] <cradek> notice the readout changes so Z shows 0 now
[09:59:13] <cradek> you now have a workpiece offset
[09:59:35] <membiblio> A dialog popped up 'Enter Z coordinate relative to workpiece' - so leave at 0 and press ok?
[09:59:46] <ssi> yep
[10:00:08] <membiblio> ok will try to run again - brb
[10:00:12] <ssi> if you were touching off against, say, a 0.1" gage block, you could put the thickness of the gage block in the dialog
[10:00:25] <ssi> but if you were touching off the tool right to the surface, use 0
[10:03:40] <membiblio> My scale in config is 40,000 is that reasonable?
[10:03:52] <ssi> scale depends entirely on your hardware
[10:13:54] <ssi> "Reminds me of the story of the musicians who were traveling across the Midwest. They stopped for gas, and the accordion player accidentally left his rear window open when they went in to pay for gas, with the accordion in plain sight. When they returned to the car there was a second accordion in the back seat."
[10:14:26] <cradek> you got it wrong - that's a banjo joke
[10:15:33] <ssi> :P
[10:17:56] <_methods> accordions reproduce that quickly?
[10:18:05] <ssi> amazing innit?
[10:18:11] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgGgyiQjoM
[10:18:15] <ssi> last night's flight
[10:18:33] <_methods> nice
[10:18:41] <_methods> love the curve of the earth at night
[10:18:53] <ssi> that's mostly barrel distortion from teh gopro :)
[10:19:13] <_methods> not sure what it is about the curvature of the earth around twilight
[10:20:40] <_methods> you at about 8k doing those barrel rolls?
[10:20:47] <ssi> lol no
[10:20:50] <_methods> don't look very high
[10:20:50] <ssi> more like 2000' agl
[10:20:55] <_methods> i was gonna say
[10:21:03] <ssi> the ones at the end are 3000' agl
[10:21:22] <_methods> can't even see the curve that low
[10:21:26] <ssi> tryin to work up to -1G 2 point rolls
[10:21:32] <ssi> best I did yesterday was -0.4G heheh
[10:21:43] <ssi> negative stuff is hard :P
[10:21:58] <_methods> that whole stalling thing lol
[10:22:05] <ssi> there's no stalling involved
[10:22:14] <_methods> i hope not lol
[10:22:15] <ssi> it's the whole hanging from the straps thing
[10:22:20] <ssi> I can't get the straps tight enough
[10:22:23] <ssi> and I come out of the seat like 3"
[10:22:27] <_methods> lol
[10:24:51] <ssi> practice practice practice
[10:25:01] <_methods> makes me want an airplane
[10:25:05] <ssi> get one
[10:25:16] <_methods> i'd love too
[10:25:24] <_methods> that silly money stuff though
[10:25:48] <ssi> YOLO bitches
[10:25:51] <ssi> or something
[10:26:00] <_methods> hahah
[10:26:16] <ssi> http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_975213_2002+RV9A.html
[10:26:18] <_methods> yowlo
[10:26:22] <ssi> you could buy that 9A with a subaru on it!
[10:26:28] <_methods> you only need to win the lottery once?
[10:26:31] <ssi> furrywolf would love you forever
[10:27:03] <ssi> that one has gone 289.1 hours without killing its occupants or destroying itself in a forced landing
[10:27:06] <ssi> pretty impressive
[10:27:13] <_methods> hahahha
[10:27:27] <ssi> how much do you weigh
[10:27:32] <_methods> 220
[10:27:42] <ssi> this might be a bit tight then, but
[10:27:42] <ssi> http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1015045_RV-3.html
[10:27:44] <ssi> that's a value there
[10:28:01] <_methods> yeah $20k i can live with
[10:28:15] <_methods> but only 1 seat
[10:28:21] <ssi> yep
[10:28:29] <ssi> 3s are FUN though
[10:28:41] <_methods> at least i would only kill myself
[10:28:44] <ssi> yep :)
[10:28:56] <_methods> theoretically
[10:30:49] * _methods needs to buy some lotto tickets
[10:31:12] <ssi> http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_899308_VANS+RV-4.html
[10:31:22] <ssi> $12k more for an additional seat
[10:31:23] <ssi> heheh
[10:32:26] <_methods> how much you think it would cost to fly a 3 seat type plane to seattle for this side of the country?
[10:32:32] <ssi> 3 seat?
[10:32:37] <_methods> 3 or 4
[10:32:48] <_methods> something that will carry that many people basically
[10:32:48] <ssi> I mean... that sorta depends on the airplane
[10:33:02] <_methods> yeah
[10:33:02] <ssi> and the people
[10:33:10] <ssi> technically my cherokee 140 is 4 seat
[10:33:15] <ssi> but it won't carry me and you and two more people like us
[10:33:34] <_methods> how much you think even carrying just 2
[10:33:39] <_methods> in your cherokee
[10:34:00] <ssi> from seattle to charleston?
[10:34:05] <_methods> yeah
[10:34:11] <_methods> or charleston to seattle
[10:34:21] <_methods> just wondering about fuel costs and all that
[10:34:25] <ssi> it's 2100nm
[10:34:33] <ssi> so let's say excluding winds
[10:34:45] <ssi> in the cherokee I usually flightplan 110kt @ 10gph
[10:35:01] <ssi> 2100/110 is 19 hours, so 190 gallons
[10:35:16] <ssi> for a long cross country like that, figure a high fuel price, maybe $5/gal average
[10:35:19] <ssi> so about a grand, one way
[10:35:23] <_methods> ouch
[10:35:33] <ssi> you'd also want to do a trip like that in three days
[10:35:37] <ssi> 19 hours is a lot of flying
[10:35:42] <_methods> yeah that's brutal
[10:35:45] <ssi> and that's not including the time involved in fuel stops and food
[10:36:01] <ssi> so let's rerun it for the RV6
[10:36:11] <ssi> the RV6 does about 150kt true on 8gph
[10:36:24] <ssi> that's 14 hours, 112 gallons
[10:36:29] <ssi> $560
[10:36:48] <_methods> yeah so i definitely need to buy some lottery tickets
[10:36:51] <ssi> my RV7 should do even better... I'm hoping for 175kt true on 9gph
[10:37:08] <ssi> 12 hours, 108 gal, $540
[10:37:24] <_methods> that's gettin there
[10:37:26] <ssi> that's about as efficient as airplanes get
[10:37:41] <_methods> but that's without winds
[10:37:43] <ssi> anything more efficient than that is either MUCH slower, or way too expensive
[10:37:55] <ssi> yeah, and the winds will affect the RV's numbers less than the cherokee's
[10:38:13] <ssi> you'd typically go west at a lower altitude and east at a higher altitude, to optimize for wind
[10:38:48] <ssi> now, if you want something that'll honest to god hold four well-fed folks and all their bags for such a trip, it's going to cost you
[10:39:05] <_methods> yeah i figured
[10:39:13] <ssi> a bonanza or a twin comanche would be a good option
[10:39:22] <furrywolf> blah! more rain.
[10:39:30] <CaptHindsight> how often do you need to stop to refuel in the RV?
[10:39:55] <ssi> endurance is about 4 hours with reasonable reserve
[10:40:00] <ssi> 600nm or so
[10:40:43] <ssi> so a bonanza is going to do 170kt true on 15gph
[10:40:47] <ssi> with four real people and their crap
[10:41:10] <ssi> that's 12.5 hours and 185 gallons of fuel
[10:41:58] <ssi> but the bonanza will cost you $100k to acquire, $2500/yr to insure, and $3-5k/yr to maintain :P
[10:42:15] <_methods> like i said.......lottery lol
[10:42:33] <_methods> after i win that i'll just keep you on retainer lol
[10:42:34] <ssi> honestly, SEA to CHS is not something you want to do on the regular in a light single
[10:42:52] <furrywolf> now, the staff at the local diner... as one of them once said, "we's all corn-fed gals here... we know how to eat!"
[10:42:53] <_methods> oh i was just curious
[10:42:54] <ssi> I can beat the airlines on price and speed for anything up to about 1500nm
[10:42:59] <ssi> 1000nm maybe
[10:43:29] <_methods> hell just not having to board and go through all that shit is priceless
[10:43:32] <ssi> but if you win the lottery and you want to go to SEA a lot, you need to get a lear 35
[10:44:01] <ssi> 420kt at 45,000'
[10:44:10] <ssi> and up there you REALLY can get into some wind
[10:44:18] <ssi> coming back from seattle I bet you can get that bastard up to 600kt
[10:44:27] <ssi> 3.5 hours :D
[10:44:41] <_methods> that would be nice
[10:44:57] <ssi> probably take 2000 gallons to do it
[10:44:58] <ssi> about $8k
[10:45:00] <furrywolf> last time I flew, we got hassled at security every fucking time. I'd much rather take the theoretical increased risk of a terrorist attack and have TSA and homeland securty vanished.
[10:45:24] <_methods> i think they should make everyone put on hospital gowns and no luggage allowed
[10:45:36] <ssi> sounds good to me
[10:45:38] <CaptHindsight> skylink quote for 4 people Chicago to Seattle on a piston plane one way $9500-16K
[10:45:38] <furrywolf> (I say theoretical, because as far as anyone can tell, we haven't actually stopped a single terrorist attack...)
[10:45:39] <_methods> hahah
[10:45:45] <malcom2073> I think they should ban carryons
[10:45:49] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yow
[10:45:50] <malcom2073> Would make things go SO much faster
[10:46:03] <CaptHindsight> light jet $18-26K
[10:46:03] <_methods> i never figured out how anyone takes over a plane
[10:46:13] <_methods> if everyone just stands up and gets out there luggage
[10:46:17] <_methods> no one can go anywhere
[10:46:17] <ssi> CaptHindsight: we paid about $12k for a round trip atlanta to san marcos tx in a lear 35
[10:46:30] <ssi> 2.5 hours out, 93 minutes back at 42,000'
[10:46:32] <ssi> was awesome
[10:46:55] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that's the beauty of those agencies. the attacks are stopped b efore they happen.
[10:47:09] <ssi> zeeshan: you see the vid i linked above?
[10:47:25] <zeeshan> no
[10:47:27] <zeeshan> i see an airplane link
[10:47:39] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgGgyiQjoM
[10:47:39] <CaptHindsight> oh, it's the same price for round trip on either
[10:47:46] <furrywolf> zeeshan: yes, and did you know that the bug zapper I have on my porch also keeps tigers from attacking my house? ever since I put that bug zapper up, I haven't been attacked by a tiger once!
[10:47:51] <ssi> CaptHindsight: they gotta bring it back either way :D
[10:48:38] <zeeshan> yea baby!
[10:48:40] <zeeshan> DRAG STRIP
[10:48:43] <zeeshan> you got beat dude
[10:48:53] <ssi> yeah the pitts out accelerates me by a LOT
[10:49:00] <zeeshan> that guy was gone
[10:49:01] <zeeshan> lol
[10:49:05] <ssi> something about 180hp in a 700lb plane vs 150hp in a 1000lb plane
[10:49:10] <zeeshan> wow
[10:49:12] <ssi> but I'm WAY faster than him top end
[10:49:13] <zeeshan> that makes that big of a diff eh?
[10:49:17] <ssi> like 30 knots faster
[10:49:41] <zeeshan> this is the plane you built?
[10:49:46] <ssi> no I didn't build this one
[10:49:49] <ssi> it's homebuilt but not by me
[10:50:28] <zeeshan> looks like so much fun
[10:50:37] <ssi> it is
[10:51:05] <zeeshan> haha youre flying pretty low there
[10:51:07] <zeeshan> near the water
[10:51:18] <ssi> I didn't get too low
[10:51:20] <ssi> maybe 30'
[10:51:25] <zeeshan> thats low
[10:51:30] <zeeshan> thats almost as long as a standard length of steel
[10:51:32] <zeeshan> 20 '
[10:51:38] <ssi> lol
[10:52:28] <zeeshan> hjahaha
[10:52:34] <zeeshan> you randomly find a buddy up in the air?
[10:52:37] <ssi> yep
[10:52:39] <ssi> that's my roommate
[10:52:45] <zeeshan> stalkers
[10:52:46] <zeeshan> :D
[10:53:30] <ssi> the other day BJ and I were flying like this, and our friend Andy hooked up with us in his comanche
[10:53:41] <ssi> and he was going to peachtree city to pick up some girl
[10:53:50] <ssi> and he wanted us to listen to his radio calls and come silently find him
[10:53:57] <ssi> and just randomly form up on them while they were flying along
[10:53:59] <ssi> freak her out
[10:54:25] <ssi> unfortunately it got dark before he picked her up and BJ doesn't fly at night
[10:54:27] <ssi> pitts has no lights
[10:54:56] <zeeshan> hehe
[10:54:59] <furrywolf> once here we had some really low ceilings, maybe 50-75ft, at a local non-instrument airport near the water... we were waiting around for the call that the plane had diverted, figuring there's no way we was making it in... then we heard him. looked around, spotted him coming in over the water, so low he was leaving a bit of a wake on the surface. he went over a road and cars slammed on their brakes.
[10:55:17] <ssi> that shit is daaaaangerous
[10:55:29] <ssi> friend of mine landed on the interstate in conditions like that
[10:55:43] <ssi> couldn't find the airport
[10:55:50] <ssi> had an electrical fire behind the panel
[10:55:52] <ssi> had to get it down
[10:56:21] <furrywolf> he said he spotted an opening about 30 miles away, offshore, dropped down through the opening, headed back towards the beach, then followed the beach to the airport. he said he could see people on the beach pointing at him as he buzzed them. lol
[10:56:28] <ssi> yea
[10:56:50] <ssi> you do what you gotta do... but that's a bad spot to be in
[10:57:53] <archivist> did you see the tv prog from over here, the pilot died and the passenger got the plane back on the ground
[10:58:14] <ssi> no
[10:59:30] <archivist> this was the incident http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-24457031
[10:59:52] <zeeshan> flight simulator helps
[11:00:02] * zeeshan flew from yyz to lhr
[11:00:04] <zeeshan> real time
[11:00:17] <zeeshan> !
[11:00:42] <_methods> that F-16 ran into a plane here last night
[11:00:47] <ssi> yeah I saw that
[11:01:03] <_methods> the f-16 pilot ejected
[11:01:11] <_methods> don't think it went so well for the other guys
[11:01:12] <archivist> I bet this wont be viewable abroad http://www.channel4.com/programmes/mayday-the-passenger-who-landed-a-plane/on-demand/58435-001
[11:01:17] <ssi> indeed it didn't
[11:06:20] <furrywolf> heh, a few hours of basic flight instruction might be a good idea for any frequent GA passenger...
[11:06:30] <ssi> yeah they have something they call "pinch hitter" courses
[11:06:40] <ssi> enough training to be able to land in an emergency
[11:07:33] <archivist> I have been up in a little cessna once and had my hands on the handle for a minute
[11:07:34] * furrywolf can't afford flying, even as a passenger, so doesn't have to worry about that
[11:08:03] <roycroft> i last flew about a week before 9/11
[11:08:05] <archivist> one of those birthday present type rides
[11:08:06] <ssi> get that subaru powered RV9A
[11:08:25] <roycroft> i have refrained ever since, not being willing to participate in security theatre
[11:08:34] <ssi> roycroft: commercial you mean?
[11:08:40] <roycroft> period
[11:08:46] <roycroft> although the choice is commercial
[11:08:50] <ssi> no security theater in GA :P
[11:09:00] <furrywolf> there's a subaru-powered zenith ch701 posted on the bulletin board at the local airport...
[11:09:03] <roycroft> there is heaps of security theatre in atlanta
[11:09:14] <ssi> general aviation, not georgia :P
[11:09:18] <roycroft> oh
[11:09:28] <ssi> all the security theatre in atlanta is focused tightly around hartsfield :)
[11:09:29] <roycroft> yes, that is likely true
[11:09:43] <ssi> I'm 20 miles away from hartsfield and there's zero security theatre
[11:09:45] <roycroft> at any rate, most places i go are in my timezone anyway
[11:09:55] <roycroft> so it's not a big deal
[11:10:07] <furrywolf> ssi: at the main airport, to go on a plane, you get poked, prodded, metal-detected, etc. to drive your car up to a plane, you go around back to an unguared chain link gate with a 4-digit security code, that's never changed, and everyone knows. just in case you ever need more proof that it's just theater...
[11:10:17] <ssi> yep
[11:10:22] <ssi> I know full well it's theatre
[11:10:49] <ssi> furrywolf: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_923293_RV7A+Subaru+EJ20+Turbo+%26+mount.html
[11:11:05] <furrywolf> if you want to destroy a plane, all you have to do is crash the back gate with a ryder truck...
[11:11:19] <AGR> skunkworks: I added "emcmot.01.enable" looks like this "net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable emcmot.01.enable" and got this error: pin 'emcmot.01.enable' does not exist What do I need to add
[11:12:11] <furrywolf> someone drove a red toyota pickup through the gate at the other local airport. some whackjob drove out onto the runway yelling about how the freemasons were going to help the aliens take her to their homeworld, or something like that.
[11:12:23] <furrywolf> I missed it by about ten minutes. I was pissed. apparantly it was a very amusing show.
[11:13:15] <furrywolf> it was especially amusing as someone I know (and rather dislike) also had a red toyota pickup, drove to the airport about an hour later, and immediately got questioned by the cops on where she was an hour ago...
[11:13:28] <skunkworks> AGR, that may have been my mistake - I think you cannot hook 2 signals togather...
[11:13:53] <roycroft> good thing that second pickup was red
[11:14:12] <roycroft> if it was another color or a not toyota the cops probably would have shot it up instead of stopping it to ask questions
[11:14:20] <furrywolf> heh
[11:14:37] <skunkworks> instead of the the spindle-enable line - just add the hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable to one of the enable lines above.
[11:15:19] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind a CH701... it's one of the few kit planes that's at least marginally affordable, and has excellent short, grass field performance.
[11:15:47] <ssi> ch701 is ok
[11:15:50] <ssi> I wouldn't have one personally
[11:16:13] <furrywolf> you seem to like fast planes. I'd want something for brush landings here in the mountains.
[11:16:21] <ssi> I like slow planes too
[11:16:23] <ssi> but that's not the one I'd have
[11:16:30] <ssi> for one thing, the tailwheel's on the wrong end
[11:16:34] <AGR> skunkworks: thank you will try
[11:16:42] <ssi> which is a serious limitation if you want a bush plane
[11:16:49] <furrywolf> perhaps because it's called a nosewheel?
[11:17:09] <ssi> nothing gets by you, eh
[11:17:15] <furrywolf> or I could just build a laser table, download the plans, and cut all my own sheetmetal... :P
[11:17:18] <PetefromTn_> heh
[11:17:21] <CaptHindsight> nope, planes are only hijacked by the elderly, small children and anyone with a different skin color, that is why they are so scrutinized by security at the airports
[11:17:47] <ssi> better off with a punch press
[11:17:50] <ssi> that's how vans does it
[11:18:07] <ssi> http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1032065_Zenith+CH-701+STOL+%2433%2C000.html
[11:18:17] <ssi> for $33k no reason to fuck around with building one
[11:18:22] <furrywolf> they have a 12x4ft cnc router table according to their website
[11:18:33] <ssi> who does
[11:18:44] <furrywolf> zenith. that they make the kits on.
[11:18:49] <ssi> ah
[11:18:55] <ssi> http://media.aeropunk.com/vans-tour/dsc_4786.jpg
[11:18:58] <ssi> that's one of vans's machines
[11:18:59] <furrywolf> http://www.zenithair.com/images/kit-data/images/fact-cnc3.jpg like that
[11:19:02] <PetefromTn_> NICE I want a 4x12 LOL
[11:20:31] <ssi> shit this looks fun
[11:20:31] <ssi> http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_974296_Loehle+5151.html
[11:20:43] <furrywolf> I don't know if I'd trust someone else's kit-built plane. I'm rather exacting in my construction standards, and from what I've seen of the shit everyone else builds, no one else is. heh.
[11:21:06] <ssi> understandable
[11:21:09] <PetefromTn_> well guys I had a machinist friend visit me yesterday to make some pretty tight parts on my CNC.
[11:21:13] <ssi> my RV6 isn't built to my standards
[11:21:33] <ssi> but having built one, I'm at least in a position to evaluate the work and decide what is unsafe and what's just unsightly
[11:22:01] <furrywolf> I may be a redneck, but you can bet every bolt I put in will be tight and every rivet will have the sheet metal properly clamped first...
[11:22:21] <PetefromTn_> he had a project he wanted to make that he programmed with Mastercam using a post he made for my machine awhile back to test out.
[11:22:29] <archivist> too tight and things break too
[11:22:33] * furrywolf hates people who put in rivets without clamping, resulting in floppy joints
[11:22:49] <PetefromTn_> bunch of fancy 3d tool paths and some rather tight tolerances in D2 tool steel.
[11:23:09] <ssi> nice
[11:23:20] <PetefromTn_> I was honestly a bit nervous about it and how the Cinci would perform
[11:23:28] <ssi> any pics?
[11:23:54] <PetefromTn_> not having had done a lot of really tight tolerance work I have really no idea what the machine is REALLY capable of
[11:24:05] <PetefromTn_> We are still working on the part
[11:24:07] <furrywolf> I don't think either of my machines is good for tight tolerance work.
[11:24:15] <PetefromTn_> I will try to get some pics here soon tho
[11:24:20] <furrywolf> the sherline is better than the shoptask...
[11:24:39] <furrywolf> also, meh, the light rain has turned into heavier rain.
[11:24:45] <PetefromTn_> Anyways I have not really used the cutter comp all that much yet even since I have converted the machine to use inch units
[11:25:00] <PetefromTn_> most of the stuff I make is not real critical and more aesthetic in nature
[11:25:08] <PetefromTn_> so just have not really had any need
[11:25:19] <PetefromTn_> but these are small tool steel die parts LOL
[11:25:29] <PetefromTn_> so that is not gonna cut it here hehe
[11:25:43] <skunkworks> I decided I am not detail oriented enough to build a plane
[11:26:01] <PetefromTn_> much to my surprise the linuxCNC program took all of the code without issue or adjustment
[11:26:04] <roycroft> if i built a plane i would have yet another reason not to fly :)
[11:26:33] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_, that is exciting :)
[11:26:37] <PetefromTn_> the Cinci made some rather impressively smooth cuts in the steel and my friend was apparently pretty impressed.
[11:26:42] <furrywolf> http://www.zenithair.com/video/cnc-zac.wmv how zenith kits are cut
[11:26:45] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks Yeah I think so
[11:26:54] <archivist> a clueless seller in calif http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-J-Cady-Co-Model-DDW-Bench-Electric-Micrometer-Machinist-Sheet-Metal-Nice-/181795776433 HOW MUCH?
[11:27:08] <membiblio> What is the window in linuxcnc that shows the 'cone' and the pattern to be cut?
[11:27:09] <PetefromTn_> some of the cuts on these parts are spec'd ground finish
[11:27:19] <membiblio> Preview?
[11:27:31] <skunkworks> my dad is getting blueprints from work here and there is no tollerence called out. when he askes they say - it has to be right on ;)
[11:27:38] <PetefromTn_> but some are a few tenths tolerances
[11:27:52] <membiblio> So can my preview be Opposite my machine - meaning when the preview goes right my machine actually goes left
[11:27:52] <malcom2073> skunkworks: I hope he's adjusted the price to suit :P
[11:27:55] <furrywolf> skunkworks: it doesn't work like that. :)
[11:28:03] <PetefromTn_> amazingly we were able to hit them pretty easily with cutter comp adjustment
[11:28:08] <malcom2073> infinite precision for infinite cost
[11:28:33] <PetefromTn_> I must say that after last nigt I am VERY happy with my little Cininatti Arrow 500 :D
[11:28:39] <archivist> membiblio, is it the right way material to tool
[11:29:00] <furrywolf> one of these days I'll have a shop, then I can build my plasma/router table...
[11:29:16] <PetefromTn_> I also have a newfound respect for what Mastercam can do with a 3d toolpath...
[11:29:21] <malcom2073> furrywolf: I have faith in you!
[11:29:22] <PetefromTn_> freaking amazing really
[11:29:26] <membiblio> archivist - I am not sure what you are stating or asking. Rephrase please?
[11:29:53] <PetefromTn_> never seen so many smooth arcs and radiused entries and exits in one program on this machine before
[11:30:18] <membiblio> archivist - Probably not. This is a gantry machine, when the table moves back the work moves back.
[11:30:22] <PetefromTn_> and the good news is that LinuxCNC took it all in stride and performed beautifully. BIG thank you to all of you guys that made that possible
[11:31:04] <PetefromTn_> we ran the roughing toolpath on the very small part last night tool about an hour or two
[11:31:19] * furrywolf likes the "first hit's free" model where zenith tries to get you hooked building one part cheaply...
[11:31:42] <PetefromTn_> tonight when he comes back over with a smaller bullnose cutter for the finer detail contours we will be running the finish passes.
[11:31:57] <archivist> membiblio, the work is moving back but the cutter is forward with reference to the work
[11:32:03] <ssi> furrywolf: have you seen the one week wonder?
[11:32:13] <PetefromTn_> All in all it was a pretty intensive night for me and I learned a LOT from him last night
[11:32:20] <furrywolf> one week wonder?
[11:32:35] <ssi> last year EAA built a 701 during oshkosh
[11:32:44] <PetefromTn_> we even drew the part in his Solidworks and I got to play with that again. Learned a few new tricks on it as well.
[11:32:49] <ssi> random passersby contributed
[11:32:50] <ssi> http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/one-week-wonder
[11:32:59] <membiblio> archivist - yes I believe that is correct - the table moves back which brings the routing head forward onto the work surface
[11:33:16] <furrywolf> ah, I heard they did that a few times in the '90s, didn't know they did it again.
[11:33:42] <ssi> I'm not crazy about all-blind-riveted construction
[11:33:48] <PetefromTn_> Looking forward to tonight and more learning and machining. in all we have to make like 8 different precision parts. Should be interesting and cool. and hopefully we make some good cash in the process.
[11:34:07] <furrywolf> I really need to get+learn cad+cam...
[11:34:11] <ssi> oh sorry it's a 750 not a 701
[11:35:23] <furrywolf> someone should design a plane where all parts can be made on a cnc router, with no other forming operations needed. even if it involves more parts and weighs a bit more...
[11:35:50] <ssi> that's kind of a poor goal
[11:35:57] <ssi> weight is more important than fabrication speed
[11:36:03] <furrywolf> yes, for poor people, like me. :P
[11:36:20] <ssi> there are plenty of designs where all parts can be made with tin snips and a file
[11:36:23] <ssi> for poor people like you
[11:36:33] <ssi> I have a set of plans for a teeny two
[11:36:45] <ssi> it's seven sheets, everything can be scratbuilt from aluminum sheet with hand tools
[11:36:46] <furrywolf> that's for poor RETIRED people, who have nothing better to do all day than sit there using hand tools.
[11:37:29] <ssi> well there are also a lot of planes that can be built that only have one part, made by a very particular and expensive tool
[11:37:40] <ssi> the Cessna Factory tool
[11:38:16] <furrywolf> ?
[11:38:25] <furrywolf> as in "buy a plane"?
[11:38:29] <ssi> yeah
[11:38:30] <ssi> you order the kit
[11:38:34] <ssi> and it comes no assembly required
[11:38:38] <ssi> just pour in oil and fuel
[11:38:56] <ssi> isn't that the logical conclusion of your desires? :)
[11:39:04] <furrywolf> that's for rich people.
[11:39:25] <AGR> skunkworks: I put it above on a new line does this look ok: http://pastebin.com/fQ7hwHu3
[11:39:36] <ssi> so you want the plane for people with no money and no time and no experience but very exacting standards?
[11:40:03] <ssi> I bet you also want it to go 350mph on 2 gallons per hour and hold ten people
[11:40:48] <furrywolf> no, I want one that requires not too much money and not too much time. tin-snips-and-file is too much time, factory-stamped kit parts are too much money...
[11:41:02] <skunkworks> you need just one line net emcmot.01.enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable
[11:41:16] <ssi> factory punched kits cost less than building a cnc router and attempting to design an airplane to fabricate with it
[11:41:31] <ssi> and tin-snips-and-file airplanes take less time than the above
[11:41:55] <ssi> "build a machine and design a plane" is more my style too, but at least I don't kid myself into thinking it's about saving money or time :)
[11:43:20] * furrywolf would make a comment about time and money to build replacement houses, but figures that's not nice.
[11:43:39] <AGR> skunkworks: do I remove the line I just added and replace it with your new line or add it and have two new lines
[11:43:40] <ssi> not nice is your style, why stop now?!
[11:43:59] <skunkworks> you only need the one line
[11:44:19] <skunkworks> it is just connecting the pwm enable to your enable singal
[11:44:21] * furrywolf is usually nice. :(
[11:44:22] <AGR> skunkworks: thanks will try out
[11:44:52] <skunkworks> eh - that is what insurence is for :)
[11:45:41] <furrywolf> I don't know about that one-week-wonder... flying a plane built by people who've never put a rivet in before is pretty scary. with just a couple people building it, you can figure most of the rivets get put in correctly, even if the first few are crap... but when you have thousands of people each putting in their first few rivets, you end up with every single rivet being suspect...
[11:45:58] <ssi> yeah but it's a blind riveted airplane
[11:46:01] <ssi> you can't really fuck them up
[11:46:09] <ssi> if it were solid riveted, I'd mostly agree
[11:46:26] <membiblio> So I want to 'reverse' my X axis - I reversed MIN_LIMIT (now == 96) and MAX_LIMIT (now == 0) and told linuxcnc that home is at 96 and it moves left instead of right.
[11:46:38] <furrywolf> trust me, you can fuck up blind rivets. :P
[11:46:55] <ssi> if they pull tight, they're fine
[11:46:56] <furrywolf> poor clamping being the #1 reason
[11:47:27] <furrywolf> their video even shows someone working the rivet gun back and forth to break the stem off a rivet, suggesting it wasn't pulled tight first...
[11:48:15] <PetefromTn_> I have always kinda wanted to build an untralight or powered parachute
[11:48:25] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I want a backpack style powered parachute
[11:48:29] <ssi> they look like an awful lot of fun
[11:48:31] <furrywolf> of course, the nice thing about those rivets is they go in fast. I have one of those air rivet guns, and you can put in a lot of rivets in very little time.
[11:48:37] <membiblio> I guess maybe I should be reversing my scale - right?
[11:48:43] <PetefromTn_> yeah man and at least RELATIVELY safe perhaps
[11:48:48] <ssi> hahaha no, not really
[11:48:50] <furrywolf> eh, I want something made entirely out of metal. no parachutes.
[11:48:57] <PetefromTn_> how so
[11:49:05] <furrywolf> except for maybe a ballastic one.
[11:49:05] <ssi> lets see
[11:49:14] <archivist> membiblio, there is also just invert the pin all depends on needs
[11:49:17] <ssi> strap a lawn mower on your back, hang from a parachute, and sail your ass into the air
[11:49:21] <ssi> ...safe?
[11:49:26] <ssi> fun, sure... but safe I dunno about
[11:49:33] <furrywolf> lol
[11:49:38] <PetefromTn_> sure man what could go wrong
[11:49:39] <membiblio> archivist - jogging runs the right way
[11:49:54] <ssi> furrywolf: why metal specifically
[11:50:02] <PetefromTn_> lets face it nothing that flies is truly safe...
[11:50:10] <ssi> plenty of excellent tube/fabric or wood/fabric designs, and composite designs
[11:50:12] <membiblio> archivist - is Max_Limit = 8.0 in config inches?
[11:50:14] <ssi> PetefromTn_: correct.
[11:50:51] <archivist> membiblio, did you set inched or metric
[11:51:00] <PetefromTn_> I love watching those guys that parasail off mountains with NO power freaking amazing and I dare say about as close to being a bird as humans will likely ever be.
[11:52:47] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: eh, I think that if battery and motor technology keeps progressing, a person-sized ornithopter is perfectly feasable, which would be a lot more bird-like experience.
[11:52:49] <ssi> you ever see the RC glider guys that use ridge lift to get the damn things up close to mach 1?
[11:53:00] <furrywolf> no
[11:53:17] <PetefromTn_> no
[11:53:19] <ssi> k maybe not mach 1
[11:53:21] <ssi> 400mph
[11:53:23] <ssi> this is nuts
[11:53:29] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix6sHKzOLU
[11:53:45] <ssi> dynamic soaring.... that's the word I was trying to remember
[11:54:07] <PetefromTn_> furrywolf honestly even if they do come up with battery and motor tech like that I still say gliding with NO power is far more like the birds would be feeling
[11:55:42] <furrywolf> actually, it might be possible today... the power output of brushless motors and lifepo4 batteries, with carbon composite construction, is heading towards where it should be possible, I think... you'd end up with very limited runtime, of course.
[11:55:45] <malcom2073> ssi: I have one of those
[11:55:57] <malcom2073> Mine has a tiny motor on it, and about 60 seconds of battery lfie in the motor battery just to get it to altitude
[11:56:00] <ssi> yea
[11:56:06] <malcom2073> It's about the same size though
[11:56:20] <PetefromTn_> all CF?
[11:56:32] <malcom2073> Cf reinforced balsa heh
[11:56:40] <PetefromTn_> sick
[11:56:56] <PetefromTn_> kinda surprised they are not FPV
[11:57:01] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix6sHKzOLU
[11:57:13] <furrywolf> only r/c flying thing I have is a helicopter, that I've never flown. it has 0 hours on it. the builder didn't bother trimming it, just tried lifting at full power... it promptly got about three inches high and flipped, smashed the tail rotor (not just the blades, tail collective is smashed), then got put in a box.
[11:57:49] <furrywolf> got a big-ish glow motor on it... a .35 or .50 or something.
[11:58:13] <PetefromTn_> I have one of those Air Hogs Quadcopters and I fly that damn thing almost daily. Its is tons of fun and damn near indestructible
[11:59:09] <PetefromTn_> LOL that last video you can't hardly see the damn plane it is going so fast
[11:59:10] <furrywolf> this is a solid aluminum design, classic helicopter drivetrain... big main rotor, small tail rotor, all mechanically geared off a single powerplant. no fancy quadcopter stuff. :)
[11:59:20] <ssi> which model
[11:59:36] <furrywolf> a gmp cricket. it's old. :)
[11:59:49] <malcom2073> I have a 40 sized nitro trainer which is a lot of fun, the glider, and another small electric
[11:59:49] <malcom2073> I need to get out of the hobby though
[12:00:49] <PetefromTn_> must admit that glider video is pretty badass
[12:00:57] <ssi> which one?
[12:00:57] * furrywolf has never gotten into the hobby
[12:01:00] <ssi> they're both pretty cool
[12:01:09] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Don't
[12:01:11] <PetefromTn_> I thnk it would be hard to do that even with a powered RC plane
[12:01:14] <furrywolf> I got it because it was cheap, and figured it might be a fun project someday... never cared enough to do anything with it.
[12:06:42] <furrywolf> yay rain... getting 20W from my 2500W of panels.
[12:06:56] <membiblio> archivist - in [TRAJ] LINEAR_UNITS is set to inch - is there another setting somewhere else?
[12:08:22] <archivist> you can change it in gcode for metric jobs or a tick box in axis
[12:09:27] <archivist> pick a unit and stick to it, a lot of USA users use inch
[12:10:07] <membiblio> archivist - when gantry moves right - X numbers get larger - is this correct?
[12:10:09] <archivist> I use whatever the job needs although the machine settings are inch
[12:10:56] <membiblio> archivist - So I have MAX_LIMIT = 8.0 in X axis - am I telling the machine it's gantry is 8 inches wide?
[12:11:34] <archivist> yes
[12:12:16] <membiblio> Well that is not right. My gantry is maybe 16 feet wide so I should have 192
[12:13:19] <archivist> you soon notice your limits if incorrect :)
[12:19:06] <membiblio> Is it ok to have the preview running opposite the machine movement - that does not make sense to me - can the preview not echo the machines movement?
[12:21:04] <furrywolf> LOL! reading the comments on a local news post... a travelling carnival has set up in a really bad area surrounded by homeless tweekers. people are suggesting carnies-vs-tweekers would be excellent entertainment...
[12:21:12] <ssi> ha
[12:22:11] <furrywolf> the tweekers there survive by shoplifting... shoplifting from a carnie is a generally a bad idea...
[12:22:34] <furrywolf> since carnies, of course, generally being crooked themselves, will spot you instantly... and aren't known for being gentle.
[12:24:44] <PetefromTn_> sounds like the makings of a great zombie movie hehe
[12:25:04] <PetefromTn_> carnie zombies versus tweeker zombies in hell
[12:26:50] <furrywolf> lol
[12:27:38] <membiblio> Guys - Does your linuxcnc box move opposite the preview pane?
[12:29:35] <_methods> no
[12:29:45] <_methods> you have something wrong if it's doing that
[12:30:32] <_methods> is it moving opposite in all axes?
[12:31:34] <_methods> NYSE, United and wall street journal all glitched out
[12:31:49] <_methods> interesting day for IT guys around the nation lol
[12:34:00] <membiblio> What does Joint 2 Following error mean?
[12:34:30] <skunkworks> with china stockmarket crashing - a coworker here thinks it is the begining of the end.. again...
[12:34:56] <_methods> hahah
[12:35:04] <_methods> i'm sure it's the end of a few peoples jobs
[12:35:06] <furrywolf> membiblio: the actual position and the intended position excessively differ
[12:35:55] <archivist> membiblio, often as a result of incorrect settings or a latency issue
[12:36:17] <skunkworks> not enough stepgen overhead.. (for stepper machines)
[12:36:27] <membiblio> Thank you. Changed max velocity and got error
[12:37:31] <skunkworks> we call him 'chicken little'...
[12:38:14] <_methods> the sky is always fallin lol
[12:38:53] <_methods> kickstarter funny of the day
[12:38:54] <_methods> http://www.hydrohammock.com/
[12:39:08] <_methods> hahah $500
[12:39:24] <ssi> lol wtf
[12:39:45] <_methods> probably a good way to get rid of a body
[12:40:13] <ssi> "healing mineral waters"
[12:40:14] <skunkworks> and this is how you calcualte your load bearing members to support the hammock...
[12:40:21] <_methods> lol
[12:40:28] <_methods> cockulate
[12:40:47] <ssi> "The Hydro Hammock hot tub is one of the most important inventions of the 21st-century! This product gives you the ability to create the feeling of a natural Hot Springs wherever you go. "
[12:40:54] <ssi> must have been a slow century
[12:41:05] <_methods> i've never looked at a hammock and thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a hot tub
[12:41:44] <mutley> hello
[12:42:21] <mutley> i need to get some real tough stubby drill bits 3.3mm, what am i going to ask my engineers supply shop for?
[12:42:47] <mutley> normal HSS bits are just twisting and bouncing
[12:42:57] <mutley> cobalt?
[12:43:10] <ssi> stubby drills :P
[12:43:20] <furrywolf> can we kill web designers who try to load a whole bunch of huge images with broken javascript? each fucking image is 2000x1125 pixels, and it loads fucking all of them, then resizes them in the browser.
[12:43:23] <_methods> what are you machining
[12:43:41] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#stub-length-drill-bits/=xyr7mr
[12:43:56] <furrywolf> what possible mental defect would compel someone to load all the full-size images then thumbnail them in javascript?
[12:44:00] <_methods> screw machine drills
[12:44:11] <_methods> are usually the shortest drills you can get
[12:44:21] <mutley> for drilling 303 grade stainless
[12:44:35] <_methods> yeah get carbide screw machine length drill bits
[12:44:52] <_methods> if you're just drilling minimal depth
[12:45:13] <mutley> im turning down some bar stock in a lathe, then drilling a hole in the end, 10mm deep
[12:45:18] <_methods> coolant thru or no coolant thru?
[12:45:22] <mutley> no coolant
[12:45:32] <mutley> although i do have cutting fluid
[12:45:45] <_methods> 10mm for 3.3 is 3xd basically
[12:46:28] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/YG1-DH408033-3-3-mm-Carbide-Dream-Drill-5XD-Metric-Long-Coolant-Thru-/191465432108
[12:46:38] <_methods> that's what i'd use but without coolant thru
[12:46:42] <mutley> tbh ive not heard of machine screw length drills before, i know of "stubby" and then cobalt, titanium, carbide
[12:47:07] <_methods> machine screw length, jobber length
[12:47:24] <ssi> jobber length are longer than screw machine length I believe
[12:47:27] <mutley> so a 5xd drill bit would be good for a hole upto 15mm deep at 3.3mm depth (ish)
[12:47:29] <_methods> aircraft length
[12:47:40] <_methods> yes jobber are basically normal length drill bits
[12:47:47] <_methods> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_sizes
[12:48:19] <_methods> wiki explains it fairly well
[12:48:30] <_methods> obviously there are many others
[12:48:34] <_methods> gun drills
[12:48:36] <_methods> spade drills
[12:48:39] <_methods> on and on
[12:48:48] <mutley> _methods: ok thanks for your tips, very helpful,
[12:48:48] <archivist> stainless workhardens so you need to feed correctly to get under the skin
[12:48:59] <ssi> I bought some straight flute carbide short drills awhile back to drill a tailspring
[12:49:05] <mutley> yea im running low rpm on the lathe
[12:49:05] <_methods> me personally i'd get a yg1 dream drill 3.3mm 5xd
[12:49:06] <ssi> 3/4" hardened spring steel rod
[12:49:11] <_methods> with no coolant thru
[12:49:16] <ssi> the drill cut it beautifully :D
[12:49:25] <ssi> it was like a $40 drill b it tho
[12:49:30] <mutley> ouch
[12:49:49] <mutley> ill be drilling a few hundred of these suckers so it needs to be lasting
[12:49:59] <_methods> yeh carbide
[12:50:04] <ssi> that carbide drill _methods suggested will be perfect
[12:50:23] <_methods> let me find you msc link
[12:50:27] <_methods> are you in the usa?
[12:50:28] <mutley> ok cool, i got the keywords, thanks again so much
[12:50:30] <mutley> uk here
[12:50:35] <_methods> ahh
[12:50:56] <_methods> well yg1 dream drills are affordable and work good
[12:51:25] <furrywolf> speaking of drilling, my neighbor wants a drill bit to drill holes in a chinsaw bar. I told him none of mine! heh
[12:51:35] <ssi> http://www.yg1usa.com/feature/item_view.asp?disp=1&cat_id=2&sub_id=11&sub_sub_id=20&pre=&pre2=&name=CARBIDE%20DREAM%20DRILLS
[12:51:54] <ssi> http://www.yg1usa.com/feature/itemdetail.asp?edpno=DH404033
[12:51:57] <ssi> 3xd 3.3mm
[12:52:00] <ssi> no coolant thru
[12:52:17] <_methods> well 3xd will just barely make his 10mm
[12:52:26] <ssi> oh right
[12:52:28] <_methods> including tip clearance
[12:53:21] <mutley> well it certainly sounds like im looking to buy a more premium drill bit 1 or 2 of, instead of a multi pack of some sort of cheaper drill
[12:53:27] <furrywolf> I don't know what chainsaw bars are made of, but I wouldn't want to drill one...
[12:54:10] <ssi> furrywolf: I bet a carbide drill would do it just fine
[12:55:13] <_methods> http://www.yg1usa.com/feature/itemdetail.asp?edpno=DH404034
[12:55:16] <_methods> that's teh drill i'd use
[12:55:21] <_methods> without coolant thru
[12:55:45] <_methods> ooops sorry
[12:55:48] <_methods> that was 3.4mm
[12:55:53] <_methods> http://www.yg1usa.com/feature/itemdetail.asp?edpno=DH404033
[12:55:54] <_methods> that one
[12:55:59] <ssi> that's the one I linked :P
[12:55:59] <_methods> dh404033
[12:56:00] <furrywolf> Available Quantity 0
[12:56:09] <mutley> _methods: ok cool self centering sounds helpful too
[12:56:16] <_methods> ssi: sorry
[12:56:19] <_methods> didn't see your link
[12:56:30] <_methods> it has 18mm flute length
[12:56:34] <_methods> so that will clear for him
[12:57:02] <_methods> make sure you follow their feed and speed recommendations for max tool life
[12:57:07] <mutley> id better get ordering then if i want them befor weekend, im sure there will be a uk supplier
[12:57:18] <mutley> of an euivalent
[12:57:29] <_methods> http://www.yg1usa.com/feature/speed_data.asp?img=dh404&name=TECHNICAL%20INFORMATION%20AND%20COOLANT%20RECOMMENDATIONS
[12:57:33] <furrywolf> yay! flash flood warnings.
[12:57:39] <_methods> that is the chart for feed and speeds
[12:57:46] <archivist> cromwell possibly
[12:57:47] <ssi> PetefromTn_: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1034099_power+parachute.html
[12:57:47] <mutley> im getting hot chips flying everywhere rather than a nice spiral swarf
[12:58:19] <archivist> or http://www.mscdirect.co.uk/cgi/insrhm
[12:58:25] <PetefromTn_> LOL nice man I need one
[12:58:32] <ssi> git it
[12:58:38] * furrywolf wonders what the statistics of accidents in parachutes vs normal planes are
[12:58:52] <ssi> we all know what statistics are worth :P
[12:59:35] <mutley> btw im using on a manual lathe so feed will be human judgement/feel
[13:00:02] <archivist> manual is the hard way
[13:00:24] <archivist> last time I did a job like that was on a capstan
[13:00:46] <_methods> well after a 100 or so you'll be wishing you weren't lol
[13:01:09] <_methods> make one of those speed feeds for your tailstock
[13:01:21] <archivist> we made a thousand stainless cores for tattoo machines.... boring
[13:01:58] <archivist> boss did most of the capstan work I did the tapping
[13:02:48] <_methods> yg1 drills are great but i've not had much luck with their taps
[13:02:57] <_methods> i normally stick to OSG for taps
[13:03:05] <archivist> we use Guhring taps
[13:03:08] <archivist> used
[13:03:32] <_methods> yeah guhring makes nice taps too
[13:03:52] <archivist> was getting hundred or more holes per tap
[13:04:03] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo Special delivery from Captainhindsight!! http://i.imgur.com/98Dzu8Z.jpg
[13:04:41] <_methods> let's see some finished parts
[13:04:48] <ssi> PetefromTn_: what is it
[13:04:56] <_methods> bails of cocaine
[13:05:09] <archivist> parfum de cnc
[13:05:10] <_methods> i need to start ordering from CaptHindsight
[13:05:12] <mutley> archivist: ys of course cromwell,
[13:05:16] <PetefromTn_> solvent based anodizing dyes!
[13:05:28] <ssi> oh right
[13:05:33] <archivist> mutley, just up in Derby for me
[13:05:58] <mutley> yea ive got northampton and coventry
[13:06:14] <mutley> northamptno closer but conventry gives me great discounts over counter
[13:06:54] <archivist> they do have a strange discount/retail pricing structure!
[13:07:08] <mutley> i think it depends on the individual you deal with
[13:07:46] <mutley> coventry was giving me 50%+ off list price on endmills
[13:08:09] <mutley> northammpton "sorry we dont give discount on list prices"
[13:08:19] <mutley> well i know thats bull dont i :)
[13:08:39] <archivist> as for local stockists buck & hickman....nothing in stock, get it for next day.....
[13:12:08] <PetefromTn_> This is so kickass.... I can
[13:12:20] <PetefromTn_> can't wait to try this anodizing stuff I got now...
[13:12:40] <Tom_itx> got it all hooked up and ready?
[13:12:47] <_methods> googogogogogogo
[13:14:20] <Tom_itx> pretty soon he'll be anodizing everything in sight
[13:14:30] <ssi> good
[13:14:31] <PetefromTn_> why hell no I am still machining the parts
[13:14:32] <ssi> I'll bring my crap up
[13:14:33] <ssi> :)
[13:14:39] <PetefromTn_> BRING IT!!
[13:15:22] <PetefromTn_> gotta drill and rigid tap some holes in these clamps and deburr/polish and then I can anodize them
[13:25:40] <mutley> anodizing stuff??
[13:25:50] <mutley> sounds a lot of fun :)
[13:26:55] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully...
[13:27:14] <PetefromTn_> I have never done it before but I am trying to do it right here with the proper power and chemicals and whatnot.
[13:27:32] <PetefromTn_> with the help of Captainhindsight here I hope to be successful with it...we shall see ;)
[13:27:43] <Tom_itx> you should have a blog with your success and such
[13:27:52] <PetefromTn_> I have thought about it...
[13:28:07] <PetefromTn_> I do have the thread on CNC zone I post in occasionally
[13:28:14] <Tom_itx> start one on your tool changer too :D
[13:28:45] <PetefromTn_> I need to and I NEED to get the damn toolchanger working here.
[13:28:54] <PetefromTn_> Right now I have other fish to fry
[13:29:39] <archivist> with chips and mushy pees?
[13:30:08] <_methods> lol
[13:31:14] <archivist> something you see drunks on a friday night eating :)
[13:32:12] <PetefromTn_> dunno but I am coming to really LOVE the fried fish sandwich at the local irish pub we have been visiting :D
[13:32:37] <membiblio> Lets say I wanted to run the Y and A axis in lockstep - could I do that through configuration or how to?
[13:33:00] <Tom_itx> why not?
[13:33:06] <ssi> yeah my plasma table works that way
[13:33:37] <ssi> well no, that's not true anymore
[13:33:45] <ssi> cause I use ja for proper two joint axis
[13:33:46] <PetefromTn_> you mean swap the Y and A or actully run them the same time
[13:34:06] <archivist> membiblio, sensible gcode or geared in hal
[13:34:23] <ssi> he's trying to slave a gantry axis
[13:34:28] <archivist> g1 y10a360
[13:34:36] <Tom_itx> membiblio, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/examples/spindle.html#_spindle_synchronized_motion_a_id_sec_spindle_synchronized_motion_a
[13:34:44] <Tom_itx> the same would apply to the axis
[13:35:12] <archivist> you can do it in gcode does not have to be slaved
[13:35:51] <archivist> I make my helical gears in that fashion
[13:38:02] <archivist> membiblio, producing patterned objects?
[13:40:15] <jtsea> Hola
[13:41:31] <_methods> jt at sea?
[13:42:17] <Jymmm> Seattle
[13:43:00] <jtsea> Yep
[13:43:04] <_methods> i'll notify the authorities
[13:43:26] * jtsea ducks
[13:43:29] <_methods> hehe
[13:43:37] <_methods> were you in the airports today?
[13:43:40] <PetefromTn_> really at sea?
[13:43:42] <_methods> i feel for you if you were
[13:43:54] <jtsea> This is a freeking busy place
[13:44:17] <_methods> make sure you eat some crab for me
[13:44:45] <PetefromTn_> hell yeah me too
[13:44:57] <jtsea> Wife just ordered some
[13:45:14] <PetefromTn_> if you are in a tropical place getcha some Conch fritters too
[13:45:16] <_methods> go eat at the palisades if you're in seattle
[13:45:18] <_methods> if you get time
[13:45:22] <_methods> great place
[13:45:33] <jtsea> Stuck in airport
[13:45:51] <PetefromTn_> Oh you are going to Seattle then?
[13:46:25] <jtsea> Just a layover here
[13:46:56] <jtsea> Eagle River AK is final destination
[13:47:08] <_methods> oh way better sea food there
[13:47:09] <_methods> lol
[13:47:13] <ssi> haha
[13:47:18] <jtsea> Yea
[13:47:24] <PetefromTn_> actually there probably is
[13:47:27] <_methods> it's salmon season too isnt' it
[13:47:44] <PetefromTn_> I spent a bit of time in Alaska in the Coast guard
[13:47:49] <jtsea> Yea nephew caught some Monday
[13:48:12] <_methods> yaeh king's are running now
[13:48:17] <jtsea> I bet it has changed a lot in 47 years
[13:49:47] <PetefromTn_> Oh it looks like you are going to be near Anchorage. MUST check out the Great Alaskan Bush Company ;)
[13:50:05] <jtsea> Where is that
[13:50:12] <PetefromTn_> Anchorage
[13:50:17] <PetefromTn_> its a bunch of fun
[13:50:18] <jtsea> I used to live there
[13:50:31] <PetefromTn_> and you never heard of it?
[13:50:48] <jtsea> Been 47 years
[13:51:10] <_methods> flyin reeves?
[13:51:24] <PetefromTn_> google it I don't want to post a link hehe
[13:51:38] <jtsea> Lived halfway between Anchorage and Eagle River
[13:51:47] <furrywolf> according to google it's a strip club.
[13:51:53] <_methods> i lived in adak for 3 years lol
[13:51:55] <membiblio> archivist - geared in HAL would probably be great. I have two tables and I just want the to move together - in lock step (as much as they can)
[13:51:55] <jtsea> Lol
[13:52:05] <PetefromTn_> heh I have been to Adak
[13:52:10] <_methods> nowhere
[13:52:15] <PetefromTn_> flew all down the aleutian chain
[13:52:19] <_methods> if nowhere had an illegitimate child
[13:52:30] <_methods> that would be adak lol
[13:52:31] <PetefromTn_> They sell T shirts
[13:52:44] <jtsea> I was born on Kodiak
[13:52:46] <PetefromTn_> it's not the end of the world....but you can see it from there!
[13:52:52] <_methods> yeah hahah
[13:52:52] <furrywolf> reviews say it has overpriced, watered-down drinks, unhappy dancers, and theiving staff.
[13:52:52] <PetefromTn_> NO kidding
[13:53:04] <PetefromTn_> so I am sure you know Coast Guardsmen from up there then
[13:53:08] <jtsea> Chow time
[13:53:46] <archivist> membiblio, joined in hal will be in step, it is how my hobbing machine is done
[13:53:46] <PetefromTn_> That is not what I saw when I was there... it is more than just a strip club, kind of a burlesque/comedy club and strip club all rolled into one
[13:54:28] <PetefromTn_> it was actually a lot of fun
[13:54:30] <membiblio> archivist - how did you do that?
[13:55:08] <PetefromTn_> I remember the first act was this HUGE lady comes out on stage and starts dancing to some burlesque type music
[13:55:16] <archivist> membiblio, mine is based on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Hobbing
[13:55:25] <PetefromTn_> she was really huge but then you realize she is wearing a body suit.
[13:55:32] * furrywolf doesn't like burlesque, comedy, or strip clubs
[13:55:34] <PetefromTn_> then she starts to take it all off
[13:55:44] <PetefromTn_> and OMG she was gorgeous...
[13:56:00] * PetefromTn_ thinks Furrywolf doesn't like a damn thing
[13:56:05] <poma> Greetings
[13:56:09] <_methods> lol
[13:56:25] <ssi> he likes subarus!
[13:56:32] <_methods> buwhahahahhahahahah
[13:56:41] <_methods> and shovin stuff in his rectum
[13:56:42] <PetefromTn_> no he doesn't he is always bitching about it
[13:56:47] <ssi> I wasn't gonna go there
[13:56:48] <PetefromTn_> ROFL!!!!!!!!
[13:57:02] <cradek> also perhaps oversharing
[13:57:02] <archivist> membiblio, I modified for stepper and and added some displays to show peak step speeds
[13:57:17] <poma> I have a HAL error that I can't figure out. "function 'conv_s32_float' not found"
[13:57:25] <poma> the error is onthe "addf" line
[13:57:43] <membiblio> archivist - I'm not sure what that Hobbing is about - what does hobbing mean?
[13:57:44] <poma> I have "loadrt conv_s32_float count=1"
[13:58:01] <cradek> poma: if you look at the manpage for conv_s32_float you'll see that is not the right function name
[13:58:09] <PetefromTn_> hobbing is using a gear shaped rotary cutter to cut gears
[13:58:21] <cradek> poma: also halcmd show funct, after it's loadrt'd, would show you this I think
[13:58:51] <membiblio> How does hobbing help me to run 2 identical axis with two separate steppers - in lock step?
[13:58:56] <PetefromTn_> _methods Jeez man you almost made me choke on my hot dog here laughing
[13:59:00] <_methods> hahaha
[13:59:02] <furrywolf> I like plenty of things... just not sitting there watching people.
[13:59:02] <archivist> membiblio, a method of cutting gears, the spindle is geared to the material http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_17_Barber_Colman_cnc/IMG_1831.JPG
[13:59:10] <_methods> i aim to please, not kill anyone
[13:59:27] <ssi> PetefromTn_: nobody wants to hear about you choking on hot dog
[13:59:32] <poma> +cradek: I have looked at the man page and didn't notice anything unusual. Is the function name different than the LOADRT name?
[13:59:33] <_methods> hahahahh
[13:59:39] <PetefromTn_> I am okay don't worry LOL
[13:59:47] <archivist> membiblio, it does not help but shows how you can connect anything to almost anything in hal
[13:59:49] <cradek> poma: please look again
[13:59:50] <PetefromTn_> I know you are concerned
[14:00:11] <PetefromTn_> and yeah I get it ;)
[14:00:40] <poma> +cradek: it's a long walk out there, but I am kinda fat.
[14:00:56] <ssi> :)
[14:01:15] <archivist> run a network cable out there to save the walk
[14:01:34] <tjtr33> where to get parts in Canada? Stuck in Windsor needing big electrolytics, bridges, multi-conductor cable. I remember talk here saying Digikey etc wouldnt ship.
[14:01:37] <membiblio> archivist - Yes I understand HAL - I'm looking for implementation suggestions so I don't have to create from scratch
[14:02:19] <archivist> membiblio, some of the gantry setups use two slaved axes on the gantry
[14:03:02] <ssi> membiblio: I'm fairly sure you can just wire one stepgen to two sets of output pins in hal
[14:03:26] <ssi> but eventually you may want the ability to treat the gantry as two joints, if you want to be able to home them separately for square adjustment
[14:03:48] <archivist> he wants two tables I think
[14:05:29] <membiblio> archivist and ssi _ I think those are close but remember that, at times, the tables may not be *identical* and I need for limit/home to be observed - then run in lockstep. Does that spark any memories of things that already exist? brb
[14:06:04] <archivist> not seen anyone run two tables yet
[14:06:30] <Poma2> +cradek: nope, it is just as I have it typed.
[14:06:39] <membiblio> archivist - but did you not just say that some of the gantry run two slaved axis?
[14:06:42] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahr069-fzE Beautiful
[14:06:50] <cradek> your error shows that you typed conv_s32_float
[14:06:56] <cradek> the man page says it is conv-s32-float.N
[14:07:13] <Poma2> +cradek: Ah crap! Dashes!
[14:07:19] <cradek> N in your case would be 0, same as you use in the pin names
[14:07:22] <ssi> membiblio: ok lets clarify
[14:07:37] <archivist> membiblio, yes, that is where the gantry has two separate drives either side on the one gantry one slaved to the other
[14:07:40] <ssi> membiblio: you have a gantry machine, and you have two joints for your gantry axis... those joints you're calling Y and A
[14:07:57] <archivist> y and y1
[14:07:57] <ssi> two motors, which you want to run slaved together
[14:08:04] <cradek> poma: also be sure to use halcmd to see this, like you could just do a halcmd show all
[14:08:06] <Poma2> Is there any reason for that except to piss people off?
[14:08:08] <ssi> yeah or Y and V
[14:08:08] <archivist> a is a rotary
[14:08:09] <cradek> poma: that will serve you well
[14:08:37] <cradek> poma: yes it's just to make you, personally, mad
[14:08:45] <cradek> poma: if it worked, all our goals are accomplished
[14:08:48] <_methods> lol
[14:08:53] <archivist> membiblio, comes up on the forum and the mailing list like http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/49-basic-configuration/27724-homing-a-dual-motor-for-one-axis-gantry-machine
[14:08:59] <cradek> then finally we can rest
[14:09:07] <ssi> finally
[14:09:19] <membiblio> archivist - excellent - thank you
[14:09:28] <Poma2> Indeed it did
[14:09:42] <membiblio> ssi - thank you too
[14:10:20] <ssi> I use the joints_axes branch for gantry machines in order to have independent homing
[14:10:29] <ssi> I feel that's the Right Solution, but it's not trivial to implement
[14:10:42] <archivist> one of those thing I have not done as I dont have a gantry machine
[14:10:52] <membiblio> archivist and ssi - So why do these machines have two tables anyway - is it common knowledge or specific purpose hardware?
[14:11:13] <ssi> what are you talking about, re two tables?
[14:11:20] <membiblio> Yes two tables.
[14:11:33] <archivist> its one table and two drives to the gantry
[14:11:33] <ssi> I don't know what two tables means
[14:11:53] <_methods> do you have a picture of your application?
[14:12:09] <_methods> that might help to answer a lot of questions
[14:12:14] <membiblio> Hmm - I have two tables. It is a old routech 250 and it has a left table and a right table.
[14:12:43] <_methods> ahh
[14:12:51] <archivist> you may want to run two copies of linuxcnc to be independent
[14:12:59] <ssi> hm
[14:13:06] <ssi> is the gantry fixed, and the two tables move in Y?
[14:14:06] <archivist> http://www.machineryassociates.com/SCM-SCMI-R250-Machine-For-Sale-6180
[14:14:24] <membiblio> No the gantry moves - left and right and up and down.
[14:14:27] <_methods> you can unload one table while the machine is working on the other
[14:14:37] <membiblio> And two tables move under it, one left one right
[14:14:44] <ssi> ok hold on
[14:14:49] <ssi> you have a car that moves left and right along the gantry
[14:14:51] <ssi> that's your X axis
[14:14:57] <_methods> yes
[14:14:59] <ssi> and the car has a Z axis that moves the head up and down
[14:15:04] <_methods> the x axis gantry is stationary
[14:15:09] <_methods> the y axis tables move
[14:15:14] <archivist> its two and a half machines one base
[14:15:15] <ssi> right that's what I was getting at
[14:15:22] <membiblio> Yes that is correct. Correct Z and X are on a car and move.
[14:15:23] <ssi> so you don't have a slaved gantry axis like I was describing
[14:15:27] <ssi> you have two Y tables
[14:15:35] <ssi> that's a different thing
[14:15:35] <membiblio> and both Y's move I'm calling one Y y and the other a
[14:15:44] <ssi> well for starters, don't call it A
[14:15:46] <ssi> call it V
[14:15:50] <_methods> Y1 and Y2
[14:15:52] <ssi> XYZ and UVW are parallel
[14:15:59] <ssi> ABC are rotary about XYZ
[14:16:09] <archivist> A B or C are rotary
[14:16:31] <ssi> gcode isn't going to recognize Y1 and Y2
[14:16:38] <ssi> it will recognize Y and V
[14:17:05] <ssi> I think archivist's original idea was correct... you want to actually treat them as separate linear axes and postprocess to move both in gcode
[14:17:11] <_methods> i'm just talking about naming the axes
[14:17:22] <archivist> you couls also use the mux(iirc) comp to enabl/gear or use left/right
[14:17:24] <_methods> not sending gcode to them
[14:17:25] <membiblio> I don't want to do gcode hack - I want for Y1 and Y2 to move together as one entity except if necissary to move independently while homing. :)
[14:17:43] <ssi> well the best way to do that is with joints_axes
[14:17:51] <ssi> then you'd treat your Y axis as having two joints
[14:17:55] <ssi> same as if you were slaving a gantry
[14:18:02] <membiblio> OK I will research joint_axes
[14:18:05] <ssi> but you won't have any ability to use them separately
[14:18:09] <membiblio> thank you again
[14:18:32] <ssi> if you handle the slaving in gcode, then you can have programs that use them as one big table, and also have programs that use them as two independent tables
[14:18:35] <archivist> does your have dual spindles too
[14:18:51] <membiblio> I'll deal with that later, if I connect in HAL - I can write code for load/unload if necessary
[14:18:52] <ssi> like _methods said, to load one while the other is running
[14:19:04] <_methods> he's probably using them simultaneously so he can work on large work piece
[14:19:19] <_methods> originally the design would have been to improve production
[14:19:29] <membiblio> archivist - yes two spindles, two tool changers, two tables, two red tool boxes sitting next to it... :)
[14:19:34] <_methods> by being able to unload a table while working another
[14:19:48] <archivist> double production
[14:20:16] <ssi> i kinda want one of these machines now :P
[14:20:33] <_methods> the spindles look like they're joined not independent
[14:20:43] <archivist> they do look sexeh
[14:20:48] <membiblio> _methods - yes the original machines I maintained in Dallas had robot arms loading two tables and the spindles would route out one piece while the other is load/unloaded - I did not realize that was 'normal' in the industry - I thought it was build for a purpose and that was it... :)
[14:21:13] <_methods> it's normal for production machinery
[14:21:23] <_methods> it's why cnc machines have pallet changers
[14:21:37] <_methods> i move one pallet in to machine while the 2nd pallet is being unloaded and reloaded
[14:21:56] <tjtr33> what does he get that a pallet changer doesnt provide?
[14:21:56] <_methods> you basically double the production of your machine if you can load/unload before a cycle completes
[14:22:05] <_methods> nothing
[14:22:08] <membiblio> This machine is in Pittsburgh PA in Wilkinsburgh PA - you can come play with when done :)
[14:22:18] <_methods> he could use it for extremely large work pieces however
[14:22:20] <ssi> careful what you wish for :D
[14:22:23] <_methods> by joining the 2 tables
[14:22:24] <membiblio> Don't buy one - they be too big to move
[14:22:40] <tjtr33> extremely large meaning straddling the 2 tables?
[14:23:07] <ssi> membiblio: yea I'm used to that: https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10672253_10100490548539302_6407225546292985700_n.jpg?oh=af0040e1b091d3ec7afef9d73cd2ad3c&oe=56229252
[14:24:03] <tjtr33> bye all
[14:26:12] <membiblio> I think that is the idea - run the two tables as one to do big pieces.
[14:26:24] <membiblio> ssi what were you moving, what is that?
[14:26:47] <ssi> cincinnati sabre 500 VMC
[14:26:51] <archivist> it that Petes toy
[14:26:56] <ssi> no, it's ssi's toy
[14:26:57] <archivist> is
[14:27:04] <ssi> pete's is an arrow
[14:27:15] * archivist grmbls....want
[14:27:18] <ssi> :)
[14:28:19] <_methods> hey who is the best supplier for large diameter stainless tubing
[14:28:22] <_methods> 5-1/2 OD
[14:28:26] <furrywolf> https://regmedia.co.uk/2015/07/08/russian_safe_selfies_campaign.jpg?x=648&y=429&crop=1 lol
[14:28:35] <_methods> like factory tubing suppliers?
[14:28:37] <_methods> anyone know?
[14:29:50] <archivist> mut be hundreds of supplies google knows about http://steeltubedirect.co.uk/products/Round-Stainless-Steel-Tube-and-Pipe-Stainless-Steel-Tube/P100006
[14:29:54] <archivist> must
[14:30:06] <_methods> yeah
[14:30:25] <_methods> having a hard time finding 5-1/2" od .100" wall tubing lol
[14:30:28] <_methods> not sure why
[14:31:01] <furrywolf> could check for places supplying industral pipework
[14:31:02] <CaptHindsight> paper tube?
[14:31:03] <archivist> some may have to be folded and welded
[14:31:22] <_methods> yeah nobody has it on the shelf that i've found
[14:31:24] <CaptHindsight> ah stainless
[14:31:31] <_methods> yeah
[14:31:34] <_methods> SS
[14:31:42] <CaptHindsight> awfully thin
[14:31:50] <_methods> http://www.appletonstainless.com/custom-stainless-pipe-large-bore-tube.html
[14:31:55] <_methods> guess i'll call these guys
[14:31:58] <_methods> yeah it's just a shield tube
[14:32:09] <furrywolf> yeah, pipe is generally a lot thicker walled
[14:32:16] <CaptHindsight> SS tends to be by specialty suppliers
[14:32:22] <furrywolf> roll and tig?
[14:32:28] <archivist> http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/non-ferrous/stainless-steel-tube.html
[14:32:30] <_methods> our roll is too small
[14:32:41] <_methods> pipe is 81"
[14:33:02] <CaptHindsight> how much do you need? 5", 5 miles?
[14:33:05] <archivist> draw through a die
[14:33:08] <_methods> our roll doesn't have the nuts to roll .100" stainless anyways
[14:33:25] <_methods> 5-1/2" OD x 81" long
[14:33:38] <CaptHindsight> also what grade SS?
[14:33:48] <_methods> 304
[14:34:27] <CaptHindsight> just one piece?
[14:34:31] <archivist> the production process uses grooved rollers and a die rather than a set of rolles
[14:35:11] <_methods> yeah just one lol
[14:35:17] <_methods> sux
[14:37:06] <furrywolf> redesign to use a commercially available size? :)
[14:37:16] <_methods> yeah i'd love to believe me
[14:37:23] <_methods> but it's not an option at all
[14:37:32] <_methods> i can get 5" all day long
[14:37:59] <furrywolf> slit, insert 1.5" strip, weld? :)
[14:38:09] <CaptHindsight> Schedule 10 is .134 wall thickness
[14:38:17] <_methods> hmmm
[14:39:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.zycon.com/Products/US-NC-North-Carolina/Stainless-Steel-Tubing.html
[14:39:58] <CaptHindsight> Alro near Chicago probably has it but shipping will be $150
[14:40:19] <_methods> i think the boss already tried alro
[14:40:21] <_methods> let me check
[14:40:29] <_methods> he didn't try ryerson yet though
[14:40:38] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdnMb6mvWhs
[14:40:39] <CaptHindsight> 888-888-2576
[14:40:51] <archivist> roll kraft
[14:40:51] <_methods> yeah he hit alro already
[14:40:54] <_methods> they didn't have it
[14:40:56] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I thought you wanted someone local
[14:41:04] <_methods> no i don't care where
[14:41:16] <_methods> i'll get it from anywhere
[14:41:40] <furrywolf> http://catalog.pennstainless.com/item/stainless-steel-tubular-products/welded-tube/tw5-5x-10930420?&plpver=1003&origin=advsrch&by=prod&filter=0&categid=3001067&prodid=3001038
[14:41:53] <CaptHindsight> Nominal 5" OD 5.563 ID 5.295 wall thick .134
[14:41:56] <_methods> i think that 5" sch 10 will work
[14:42:10] <_methods> sch 5
[14:42:58] <furrywolf> the site I pasted seems to have 5.5" available in a variety of wall thicknesses... no idea what their prices or shipping is, though. just a random google result.
[14:44:11] <_methods> yeah i've been talkin to them they don't have it
[14:44:19] <_methods> they have it listed on their website of course
[14:44:26] <_methods> but they dont' have any in stock
[14:44:27] <furrywolf> lol
[14:44:41] <_methods> but sch 5 or 10 5" should work
[14:44:45] <_methods> i think i can deal with that
[14:44:51] <jt-mobile> Anyone know how to copy a web page content on an android phone
[14:44:53] <_methods> thx for the helps
[14:45:00] <_methods> long press
[14:45:10] <furrywolf> spiral-wrap strips and do a long weld? :)
[14:45:11] <_methods> then drag those slider things to what you want to copy
[14:45:15] <CaptHindsight> _methods: Alro has it!!
[14:45:20] <_methods> they do?
[14:45:25] <_methods> so my boss is a lying bastard
[14:45:35] <_methods> tubing or pipe?
[14:45:40] <CaptHindsight> the schedule 10 I posted above in 20 footers
[14:45:40] <furrywolf> that's often part of the definition of boss.
[14:45:41] <_methods> he was looking for tubing
[14:45:46] <_methods> kk
[14:45:58] <_methods> yeaht i'll tell him to hit alro now for the pipe
[14:45:59] <CaptHindsight> call 888-888-2576 ask for Lata
[14:46:04] <_methods> kk
[14:46:07] <_methods> thx
[14:46:18] <CaptHindsight> stainless welded Pipe 304
[14:47:20] <CaptHindsight> who has nema size 23 AC servos for cheap?
[14:47:37] <CaptHindsight> <$500ea
[14:47:45] <CaptHindsight> new , not used
[14:48:19] <CaptHindsight> _methods: http://www.alro.com/datacatalog/009-stainless.pdf#page=4
[14:49:08] <CaptHindsight> andy pugh found some nice Omron AC servos last year
[14:49:32] <furrywolf> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33405639/man-in-america-dies-after-trying-to-launch-firework-off-head yay darwin awards?
[14:50:31] <jt-mobile> _methods that worked. Thanks
[14:50:45] <_methods> np
[14:51:13] <jt-mobile> Now where is the tab key on a phone lol
[14:51:22] <_methods> can't help you with that one lol
[14:51:29] <jt-mobile> Lol
[14:51:33] <_methods> i use hackers keyboard instead of the google one though
[14:51:39] <_methods> it's a full keyboard for android
[14:51:50] <_methods> that should have the tab button on it
[14:51:56] <_methods> and arrows and all that
[14:52:03] <jt-mobile> Cool
[14:52:46] <furrywolf> "hrmm, it says light on ground and get away... I know, I'll light it on my head!"
[14:52:51] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: he worked for Disney http://fox13now.com/2015/07/06/former-disney-actor-gaston-killed-in-firework-incident/
[14:53:45] <_methods> they said he was a real nice guy
[14:54:32] <PetefromTn_> jeez man I have done some dumb and even questionable things in the name of comedy before but that one takes the cake...
[14:55:48] <_methods> http://www.neatorama.com/2015/07/08/Do-You-Live-in-These-10-Worst-States-in-the-USA/
[14:56:18] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/cJfYIhQ.jpg
[14:56:19] <_methods> florida?
[14:56:52] <_methods> i'm pretty sure i'd rather live in florida than those other states
[14:57:15] <_methods> nebraska?
[14:57:40] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/ZWpkFDU.jpg How the hell do you engrave the inside of a ring like that?
[14:57:42] <_methods> what did that guy on the quaker oatmeal box make this list
[14:58:20] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: cast it in
[14:58:49] <CaptHindsight> SLA printed pattern --> investment cast
[14:58:51] <PetefromTn_> yup probably
[14:59:03] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight HEY MAN!! I got my dyes!! WOOHOOoooo
[14:59:09] <cradek> nebraska is actually pretty nice, if you're in one of the progressive parts
[14:59:24] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9f7intza8c
[14:59:29] <_methods> that's how they do it
[14:59:35] <jt-mobile> Get to anodizing Pete
[14:59:36] <CaptHindsight> \o/ \O/ \0/
[14:59:39] <PetefromTn_> been thru nebraska.... thought it would never end.....stopped at the Cabela's store LOL
[15:00:04] <cradek> yeah it's sure wide
[15:00:09] <CaptHindsight> i used to plan driving through Nebraska at night
[15:00:18] <_methods> lol
[15:00:21] <_methods> you won't miss anything
[15:00:54] <furrywolf> my first guess would be from the side at an angle, just like the picture is taken...
[15:01:39] <furrywolf> worst state I've been in was texas, but I was in amarillo, which could be non-representative of the rest of the state.
[15:01:46] <PetefromTn_> so its a diamond drag engraver in a special fixture then?
[15:01:58] <CaptHindsight> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_CDJqbjSFdo/U6LjoSWFxhI/AAAAAAAABIY/LBUIcE4lTEE/s1600/3d-printed-wax-jewelry-designs-wired-design.jpg
[15:02:00] <furrywolf> generally unpleasant city in evey way
[15:02:02] <furrywolf> every
[15:02:12] <_methods> http://www.gravograph.us/engraving-machines/mechanical-engraving-m10jewel.php
[15:02:14] <PetefromTn_> jt-mobile Working on it man. gotta finish these parts first...
[15:02:28] <PetefromTn_> programming the drill and tap for the clamp bolt now.
[15:03:09] <CaptHindsight> and actual use for a 3D SLA printer
[15:03:16] <PetefromTn_> hehe I'd have to make the "ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL" version
[15:03:22] <jfindley> furrywolf: Amarillo leaves a lot to be desired.
[15:03:28] <_methods> http://www.gesswein.com/p-10864-bestbuilt-ut-ring-insideoutside-ring-engraver.aspx?gclid=CMjhyPmkzMYCFUUUHwodbIQDBw
[15:03:28] <jt-mobile> Cool. Dang finishing wheels seem to only come in 6"
[15:03:34] <_methods> $2400 for that lol
[15:03:47] <PetefromTn_> Seems like you could do that easily in the CNC
[15:03:48] <membiblio> thanks for all the help guys have a great day/night :)
[15:03:54] <PetefromTn_> with a drag engraver bit
[15:04:13] <PetefromTn_> and a little fourth axis mandrel or something
[15:04:25] <CaptHindsight> cast as two pieces, machine, weld, polish
[15:04:27] <furrywolf> or some type of shiny right-angle bit...
[15:04:27] <furrywolf> bbl, going to run some errands
[15:04:43] <PetefromTn_> I always kid my wife that I bought these machines so I could make her a custom titanium ring... might have to step up LOL
[15:04:45] <furrywolf> put a rotary table horizontal, with a chuck on it, chuck the ring, stick the bit in the spindle, lock spindle?
[15:04:47] <jt-mobile> Not much see out of the Seattle airport window
[15:04:57] <CaptHindsight> weld/solder
[15:05:02] <furrywolf> (or if you have a spindle that can be precisely positioned, skip the rotary table!)
[15:05:26] <PetefromTn_> have you ever seen the video where the guy takes a penny and hammers the snot out of it until it becomes a cool ring?
[15:05:36] <_methods> yeah
[15:05:42] <_methods> looks like a lot of work
[15:05:44] <_methods> but cool
[15:05:51] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is actually pretty cool huh
[15:06:11] <PetefromTn_> I need to get my CNC lathe going so I can make the mandrels for one and then hammer away
[15:07:04] <_methods> yeah i had a bunch of non machinist friends over and they were hangin out in my garage
[15:07:15] <_methods> and one of them was like what is that stupid thing for
[15:07:20] <_methods> pointing at my arbor press
[15:07:33] <PetefromTn_> heh
[15:07:34] <_methods> i grabbed a punch and die and punched a hole in a quarter
[15:07:45] <_methods> they were killing coins for liek 3 hours after that
[15:07:47] <PetefromTn_> they musta stood all amazed
[15:07:53] <_methods> it was hilarious
[15:07:56] <CaptHindsight> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5498059848_be998bbaf0.jpg if you have nearby tracks
[15:07:56] <furrywolf> only non-monetary thing I've done with pennies is make a few hollow ones with a friend a good numbers of years ago.
[15:08:01] <_methods> they were all diggin around in their cars for change
[15:08:15] <_methods> they were punching faces out of one coin them pressin them in other coins
[15:08:24] <furrywolf> file a little nick on opposite sides, then heat them up with the torch until the zinc melts out.
[15:08:36] <jt-mobile> First thing I powder coated was a penny
[15:08:47] <XXCoder> lol tough penny
[15:08:47] <_methods> hah
[15:08:51] <malcom2073> furrywolf: I remember doing that in school
[15:08:52] <malcom2073> good times
[15:08:56] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Hey man I finally figured out the surface area of these damn parts... .1755 sq ft. any recommendations for power/current?
[15:09:28] <jt-mobile> 12ASF
[15:09:30] <CaptHindsight> I have some anodized on one side only pennies
[15:09:48] <PetefromTn_> how do you do that? just dip it halfway in?
[15:09:51] <CaptHindsight> coated on one side with pure aluminum and then anodized
[15:10:11] <CaptHindsight> the plating process is line-of-sight
[15:10:34] <XXCoder> wonder if can vapor coat alum
[15:11:03] <CaptHindsight> metal vapor or water? :)
[15:11:36] <furrywolf> we had to try a bunch of times to get a perfect copper shell... too hot and they self-destruct, too small of a nick and the zinc won't come out, etc... the best ones the zinc kinda sweated out in droplets.
[15:11:38] <XXCoder> metal vapor of course lol
[15:12:03] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: http://ndhsubmersiblescience.com/ano/720rule.html
[15:12:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have that and have been plugging in numbers but I don't know some parameters...
[15:12:49] <PetefromTn_> what thickness and current density do you recommend for the dyes?
[15:13:13] <CaptHindsight> thicker the better
[15:13:21] <PetefromTn_> sure
[15:13:37] <PetefromTn_> what do you recommend assuming my limit of 30v and 10A
[15:14:09] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: as soon as you start doing chrome, let me know, and I'll send you a subaru bumper. :P
[15:14:21] <PetefromTn_> fogettabout it
[15:14:58] <CaptHindsight> 1 A, 15 vdc, 120 minutes
[15:15:00] <PetefromTn_> besides it would probably cost more than the subaru ;)
[15:15:03] <furrywolf> yeah, that's my opinion of chrome too...
[15:15:26] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Okay.. but what parameters did you use?
[15:15:33] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: try that and see
[15:15:50] <MrSunshine> anyone got experience with cutting Styrene-acrylonitrile ?
[15:16:01] <XXCoder> yep its possible to do vacuum deposit
[15:16:15] <XXCoder> with alunimium that is
[15:16:31] <CaptHindsight> 1 mil thickness, 6 A/ft^2
[15:16:37] <PetefromTn_> I am assuming you are using low amperage to avoid heating the fluid but is there a happy medium for say an hour or less? or am I completely misunderstanding the process
[15:17:41] <furrywolf> bbl
[15:18:35] <PetefromTn_> according to that 6A/ft2 is the high end should I do more than one part at a time and increase the surface area?
[15:19:02] <CaptHindsight> start somewhere and test
[15:19:31] <SpeedEvil> Test coupons.
[15:19:32] <Poma2> New question: where is the "emc/programs" directory that is referenced in the M102.c example file?
[15:19:34] <CaptHindsight> see where your setup works well
[15:20:02] <PetefromTn_> Ok I will just use a single part and those settings and see what happens.
[15:20:05] <SpeedEvil> Take multiple bits of Al, of the alloy you desire, clean and prep them, and then anodise at different amps/ft^2 and times
[15:20:16] <CaptHindsight> ^^^
[15:20:31] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it is all based on surface area..
[15:20:37] <SpeedEvil> Then to a first approximation, simply multiply amps by the amount your area is bigger than the coupon
[15:21:00] <SpeedEvil> This will get you close, at least
[15:21:45] <CaptHindsight> refactor the free radicals in those irrational numbers
[15:22:35] <PetefromTn_> dafuk?
[15:22:57] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[15:23:44] <CaptHindsight> me need find cheap AC servos
[15:23:53] <Poma_> Can anyone tell me where the emc/programs/ directory is?
[15:24:12] <PetefromTn_> linuxCNC
[15:24:16] <CaptHindsight> poma: check your Home directoru
[15:24:20] <Poma_> Nope
[15:24:57] <CaptHindsight> Poma_: did you install from a Live CD?
[15:25:05] <Poma_> Yes
[15:25:32] <Poma_> I have "con figs" and "mc files"
[15:25:47] <Poma_> Mind the spelling
[15:26:05] <_methods> wtf is m102?
[15:26:28] <Poma_> It is whatever I want. Just can't find where to put it
[15:26:37] <_methods> oh custom m code
[15:27:57] <Poma_> Yeah, I hope I can figure it out!
[15:29:40] <jt-mobile> LinuxCNC does not create that directory
[15:32:11] <Poma_> Hmm. Just tried creating home/linuxcnc/programs/M102.
[15:32:27] <Poma_> No workey in mid
[15:32:34] <Poma_> Mdi
[15:35:38] <jt-mobile> Did you set the initial to point to that directory and restart LinuxCNC
[15:36:05] <jt-mobile> Ini file. Stupid spell checker
[15:37:43] <Poma_> I don't know how to point
[15:39:15] <jt-mobile> Have you looked in the integrators manual?
[15:40:26] <Poma_> I'm looking at all documentation /user defined m codes.
[15:40:29] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/G37XuGW9 Does that look like it will work for a 1/4-20 tap .375 deep?
[15:41:00] <Poma_> So I guess no?
[15:41:20] <_methods> is it tool 199?
[15:41:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:42:00] <_methods> well i've never rigid tapped with linuxcnc so i have no idea
[15:42:18] <_methods> but .25 is your pitch
[15:42:31] <_methods> what rpm?
[15:42:44] <_methods> i don't see a spindle on either
[15:42:49] <_methods> oops
[15:42:51] <_methods> i'm blind
[15:42:53] <_methods> s300 m3
[15:42:59] <PetefromTn_> yeah its wrong
[15:43:17] <PetefromTn_> I gotta remove the R and F and replace it with the K value
[15:43:19] <jt-mobile> Move to the location first
[15:43:33] <PetefromTn_> it is
[15:44:15] <PetefromTn_> K is distance moved per rev
[15:44:32] <_methods> what's the g99?
[15:44:52] <_methods> the feed/rev?
[15:44:56] <jt-mobile> It's not modal so no g80
[15:45:21] <PetefromTn_> OK
[15:45:22] <_methods> g94 is feed/rev?
[15:45:54] <PetefromTn_> this is just how my cam spits out rigid tap which DOES not work for linuxCNC
[15:45:54] <jt-mobile> Pete look at the tapping sub on my Web site in the chnc
[15:46:05] <PetefromTn_> and I do not do it much so I always have to relearn how to do it
[15:46:18] <_methods> well i think i always used to use feed/rev while tapping
[15:46:21] <_methods> so g95
[15:46:36] <jt-mobile> Use a ngcgui sub
[15:46:37] <PetefromTn_> linuxCNC uses G33.1
[15:46:54] <PetefromTn_> BRB
[15:46:55] <_methods> ahh and g99 is retract to R
[15:47:07] <jt-mobile> Or my tapping g code generator
[15:48:23] <_methods> ahh so the g33.1 handles the feed/rev
[15:49:00] <_methods> so you would almost use the exact example on the gcode doc page
[15:49:04] <_methods> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G33_1-Rigid-Tapping
[15:49:09] <jt-mobile> http://gnipsel.com/files/mill-g-code/
[15:49:31] <_methods> G0 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.1
[15:49:44] <_methods> G33.1 Z-0.75 K0.05
[15:49:51] <PetefromTn_> yup I think so
[15:50:20] <Deejay> gn8
[15:50:42] <PetefromTn_> GN8 DEEJAY!!
[15:50:57] <Deejay> hi and bye mister pete :)
[15:51:12] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:52:24] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/0Ge2U7rp
[15:52:31] <PetefromTn_> that looks better no?
[15:53:04] <_methods> i think so but like i said i've never rigid tapped with linuxcnc
[15:53:14] <_methods> i defer to jt-mobile
[15:53:21] <PetefromTn_> watch me snap this beotch off in my parts here LOL
[15:53:37] <_methods> run it in air first lol
[15:53:51] <_methods> id' run it at diff rpm's too
[15:54:00] <_methods> just to make sure it's syncing correctly
[15:54:16] <_methods> the diff between 100rpm and 500rpm should be pretty noticeable
[15:54:23] <PetefromTn_> yeah I usually do run tap files in air first
[15:54:56] <PetefromTn_> That air's a bitch to cut man ;)
[15:55:02] <_methods> hahah
[15:55:07] <jt-mobile> Check the cutting edge for damage with a loop
[15:59:07] <Poma_> I'm really confused about the Mcode examples
[15:59:28] <Poma_> Does it need to be compiled in C?
[15:59:37] <jt-mobile> No
[15:59:49] <Poma_> Or is it a bash script? There are both examples
[16:00:56] <Poma_> There is a M102.c file in the examples that has me all confused.
[16:01:03] <jt-mobile> Any executable
[16:02:31] <jt-mobile> That doesn't follow the naming requirements AFAIK
[16:05:25] <poma> Yeah, it needs to be compiled.
[16:05:42] <poma> So if you're doing something really crazy, you can write your M-code in C
[16:05:48] <poma> I'm starting to get it!
[16:06:07] <poma> It hurts a little, but I'm understanding things somewhat
[16:06:55] <jt-mobile> See you guys later
[16:07:05] <poma> Thanks for your help JT
[17:05:07] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, the Z would depend on how much Zclear you have but the rest looks ok
[17:05:36] <Tom_itx> also, your X Y move must be on a separate line
[17:05:56] <Tom_itx> i built that into my cam template
[17:06:09] <PetefromTn_> it actually worked fine the way it is... but I added a lower Z clearance plane so it does not have to run down from 2"
[17:06:38] <Tom_itx> i just couldn't find my test file right away
[17:07:05] <Tom_itx> can you program taps with cambam?
[17:07:54] <PetefromTn_> with my homemade junk that does not work properly LOL
[17:07:59] <Tom_itx> i've got a file here all ready to test but the control is down atm
[17:08:16] <PetefromTn_> but so far it seems to work that little program I just ran
[17:08:19] <PetefromTn_> BEAUTIFUL
[17:09:22] <Tom_L> G00< X#XPOS>< Y#YPOS>
[17:09:22] <Tom_L> <#ABSI>< #RTNLVL> #FXD Z#ZDPTH K#FEED
[17:09:30] <Tom_itx> that's the template file for it
[17:09:33] <Tom_itx> on mine
[17:09:54] <Tom_itx> rapid to the hole then tap
[17:11:20] <Tom_itx> and the tool definition tells it the thread pitch
[17:14:39] <Tom_itx> i will have to experiment with the depth a bit though
[17:14:42] <PetefromTn_> interesting
[17:15:05] <PetefromTn_> I usually just tap shallow and then finish by hand
[17:15:46] <Tom_itx> you will likely want to use high helix taps on cnc though
[17:15:53] <PetefromTn_> RIGID TAP BABY YEAH!!!!
[17:16:57] <Tom_itx> if you do a deep tapped hole you should be able to go halfway and re'enter the hole for the full depth with no issues too
[17:18:00] <PetefromTn_> yup you can actually but I have not tried it....Don't have the balls heh
[17:18:13] <Tom_itx> you don't trust those programmers??
[17:18:36] <Tom_itx> it picks up the spindle index each time
[17:18:44] <PetefromTn_> Oh you mean the roomfull of programmers sitting at my beck and call?
[17:19:04] <PetefromTn_> or is it beckoned call?
[17:19:14] <Tom_itx> latter
[17:19:36] <PetefromTn_> well either way they don't exist its just me myself and I
[17:19:54] <Tom_itx> i'm talking about the ones in the other chat room
[17:20:02] <SolarNRG> PetefromTn_, you can always outsourse your coding via fiver.com
[17:20:08] <SolarNRG> outsource sorry
[17:20:33] <Tom_itx> i've been known to do a little too
[17:21:34] <Tom_itx> although i don't think i would atm due to momentary physical limitations
[17:21:48] <PetefromTn_> naah I am learning as I go and if I pay someone else to do it I don't learn squat even if I could actually afford to
[17:23:02] <Tom_itx> you get into some bigger jobs and you may not afford not to
[17:23:29] <Tom_itx> some of them can get pretty hairy
[17:24:06] <SolarNRG> PetefromTn_, ok then have a look at other ppls cods and see what works then copy paste it, rename some functions and variables and edit it to suit you, a lot of the time the code just doesn't come to me so I look to other ppl's open source genius for inspiration :)
[17:25:57] <PetefromTn_> willdo thanks
[17:27:15] <PetefromTn_> Okay got half of these babies rigid tapped. Now gotta rezero for the other parts and do those and I am ready to deburr and polish. Hopefully tomorrow morning I can start anodizing these bad boys.
[17:27:50] <Tom_itx> plug the tapped holes before you do
[17:28:15] <Tom_itx> or plan to retap them
[17:31:12] <PetefromTn_> I was gonna stuff the holding wire into them actually
[17:34:03] <Tom_itx> all critical dimensions should be masked
[17:34:14] <Tom_itx> bored holes, threads etc
[17:35:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't really have anything critical on these at all other than the tapped hole
[17:36:18] <Tom_itx> get some nylon screws etc for plugs
[17:36:47] <PetefromTn_> thats not a bad idea
[17:37:36] <Tom_itx> not sure if any of the chems will affect nylon...
[19:22:10] <PetefromTn_> Awesome... parts are done dudes!!
[19:22:26] <PetefromTn_> now I just need to polish and deburr them and I can attempt to anodize them tomorrow.
[19:23:34] <Tom_itx> what color?
[19:23:55] <PetefromTn_> these will all be black as per the customers request
[19:24:28] <PetefromTn_> Now I officially have two additional Ebay parts I can post and hopefully sell LOL. Three different sizes of the same basic part.
[19:25:01] <Tom_itx> what are they for?
[19:25:12] <PetefromTn_> I already told you..
[19:25:16] <Tom_itx> clamps
[19:25:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[19:25:19] <Tom_itx> but for what?
[19:25:27] <PetefromTn_> remote resorvoir shocks
[19:25:32] <Tom_itx> oh
[19:27:25] <PetefromTn_> that rigid tap program worked perfectly after I set a safe Z lower than the initial Z move
[19:27:53] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:29:53] <gromits> hello
[20:31:10] <PetefromTn_> Hi
[20:46:39] <gromits> I want to set a parameter (hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.scale) from the output of a mux, but it won't let me because it is a parameter and not a pin (I think?). This is what I am trying to do: net encoder-scale <= mux2.0.out => hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.scale Is there a way to do this?
[20:47:20] <gromits> I posted this earlier but was having some network issues so don't know if it actually got to the irc or not...
[20:48:31] <pcb_maker> good evening :)
[20:49:35] <pcb_maker> someone know about high speed spindle (brashless) for r8 / TTS?
[20:52:59] <pcb_maker> I need about 100W of power,
[20:53:15] <pcb_maker> but very fast rpm 10K and up.
[21:00:56] <PetefromTn_> never seen a brushless spindle with an R8 taper that spins that fast that was not home built from a chinese mills spindle
[21:01:13] <PetefromTn_> TTS also works with MT3 collets but still the same thing.
[21:04:52] <PetefromTn_> I once had an RF45 bedmill that had an R8 spindle and I removed the gear head mechanism and installed a custom built belt drive and angular contact bearings rated for 10k. I only spun it up to about 7500 RPM to try to maintain some modicum of bearing life.
[21:04:54] <pcb_maker> PetefromTn_: I have R8 spinsle that get up to 1800 RPM, i want just to use the R8 as holder for faster spindle,
[21:05:20] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of designs for spindle speeders you can build I have seen.
[21:05:38] <PetefromTn_> or you can add an auxiliary spindle to the millhead as I did
[21:06:13] <PetefromTn_> my VMC has a max 6k RPM spindle
[21:06:42] <PetefromTn_> but I machined a custom mount for a 120v router to mount aside the main spindle for extended duration engraving etc.
[21:07:29] <pcb_maker> I've take the idea from the turbine spindle
[21:07:30] <pcb_maker> http://www.airturbinetools.com/spindles/specs/602js.html
[21:08:23] <pcb_maker> want something like that but brashlless motor, not air., so it will fit nice on the machine, without any external stuff.
[21:08:30] <pcb_maker> I want*
[21:08:33] <pcb_maker> PetefromTn_: ^
[21:08:35] <PetefromTn_> I have seen people make aux spindles using high speed pencil die grinders
[21:09:19] <PetefromTn_> I have also seen people take RC motors and adapt them but most of these DIY options do not have much torque or great runout it seems.
[21:09:48] <PetefromTn_> there is also the kress spindles that can be adapted aside a millhead relatively easily.
[21:10:08] <pcb_maker> PetefromTn_: but the problem with aux spindles is the off center - it is almost imposibole to get it acurate on center if you switch between the main spindle and the external.
[21:10:25] <PetefromTn_> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=31890
[21:11:24] <PetefromTn_> sure it is difficult but not impossible. My mount is pretty repeatable and once you have the offset figured you can use the same offset numbers within a reasonable accuracy expectation.
[21:11:43] <PetefromTn_> what sort of machine do you have?
[21:13:41] <pcb_maker> G0704
[21:14:14] <pcb_maker> IK wnt it for small jobs like PCBs and fine 3d machinng,
[21:14:48] <pcb_maker> so I want very high rpm with low power and noise motor
[21:14:49] <pcb_maker> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9069__Turnigy_1230_Brushless_Inrunner_Motor_4500kv.html
[21:14:55] <Rab> Proxxon make some very nice rotary tools with good power and low runout: http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-38481-Professional-Rotary-Tool/dp/B001FWXEO6
[21:14:59] <pcb_maker> this is 12mm diameter motor!
[21:15:10] <pcb_maker> i cam put it in 12mm collet!
[21:15:13] <pcb_maker> can*
[21:15:48] <zeeshan> very expensive dremel!
[21:15:49] <zeeshan> :D
[21:16:19] <Rab> zeeshan, I submit that Dremel is a very cheap, crappy Proxxon.
[21:16:25] <pcb_maker> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__75399__Turnigy_XK1222_11000KV_Brushless_Inrunner.html
[21:16:25] <PetefromTn_> I would look into a kress or proxxon as RAB suggested unless you just want to screw around making something for the fun of it.
[21:16:56] <pcb_maker> 11000KVx4.2V=46200rpm!
[21:16:58] <zeeshan> i'd listen to rab
[21:17:02] <zeeshan> he made his own spindle!
[21:17:05] <Rab> You could also mount a Foredom drillmotor with a flex-shaft attachment to keep the weight off the toolhead. Serious power but they run somewhat more, $200+.
[21:18:06] <pcb_maker> But I doont need much power for 1-0.5 mm end mill.
[21:18:17] <Rab> pcb_maker, the cheap hobby BLDCs are brutally powerful for their size. Here's the spindle I made with one: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/
[21:18:21] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I like wolfgang spindles. I believe Paul Jones spindles are good too.
[21:18:22] <pcb_maker> but I need rpm.
[21:19:01] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Those two run at around 30k
[21:19:54] <PetefromTn_> Rab that looks pretty good man
[21:19:55] <pcb_maker> but I want someting that will go in to the R8 collet.
[21:20:06] <Rab> pcb_maker, you can also get a collet shaft adapter to mount e.g. an ER11 collet straight to the motor shaft. The bearings in those BLDCs aren't intended for huge side loads, but they might be a great fit for PCB milling.
[21:20:21] <Rab> PetefromTn_, thank you!
[21:21:55] <Rab> pcb_maker, then you can make a flange for the motor for mounting to the main collet.
[21:21:55] <pcb_maker> The spindle look very nice but i want it as additional tool not another permanent spindle.
[21:22:31] <PetefromTn_> doesn't the millhead on the 0704 just unbolt?
[21:22:47] <pcb_maker> Rab: but if the motor OD is just 12mm, it will go into the collet without any problem
[21:22:51] <PetefromTn_> would probably be relativley easy to make a custom spindle mount that goes on there
[21:23:28] <Rab> pcb_maker, clamping down on the motor might not be a good idea. They use rare earth magnets glued to the housing; any deformation might cause the magnets to come loose.
[21:23:57] <PetefromTn_> would be hard to cool the motor inside the spindle body too I would think
[21:24:05] <Rab> Better to lathe a cylindrical extension that screws to the back of the motor.
[21:24:51] <pcb_maker> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__75399__Turnigy_XK1222_11000KV_Brushless_Inrunner.html
[21:24:52] <pcb_maker> +
[21:24:53] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4inch-Metallic-Taper-Shank-R8-12mm-Dia-Spring-Collet-for-Milling-Machine-/311253980246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48782ed456
[21:25:50] <pcb_maker> but i need to find a way to connect the cutting bit to the shaft,
[21:26:09] <Rab> pcb_maker, got you covered: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/8mm-ER11-Motor-CNC-Spindle-Shaft-Extension-Rod-Suitable-for-AC-CNC-Spindle-Motor-AF03B/32346184771.html
[21:26:29] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: You also have to make sure the runout on that is within tolerance.
[21:26:42] <os1r1s> You should measure that before you try some elaborate setup
[21:27:03] <Rab> However, the smallest shaft diameter they seem to make those for is 5mm (might be able to find smaller if you search). You might need a concentric sleeve to make up the difference.
[21:27:08] <pcb_maker> what about something like that?
[21:27:08] <pcb_maker> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2-3-3-17mm-Micro-Drill-Bit-Clamp-Fixture-Chuck-0-7-3-2mm-Electric-Motor-Shaft-/141416791937?var=440560691574&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
[21:27:16] <os1r1s> And, if you are going to turn the spindle at that speed, you need to make sure the spindle bearings can handle it
[21:28:50] <Rab> pcb_maker, you can probably tell those are crap. If you buy a bunch and select for runout, and are willing to replace them when the brass deforms, they might work OK.
[21:29:52] <Rab> Might be fine for engraving with stub endmills, but for longer carbide endmills and drills...not likely.
[21:30:32] <pcb_maker> basically I'm looking for something profesional, but i can't find anything with motors, just turbine.
[21:33:02] <Rab> pcb_maker, there's also this kinda thing: http://item.ebay.com/190867701034
[21:33:21] <Rab> Still a challenge to mount the way you want.
[21:34:09] <pcb_maker> Rab: this is exactly what I'm looking for but with mount to the main R8, and brashless,
[21:34:31] <malcom2073> You could get a speedo
[21:35:48] <pcb_maker> what is a speedo?
[21:35:51] <pcb_maker> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tHuiSq9zN8
[21:36:01] <pcb_maker> this is look very nice.
[21:36:11] <malcom2073> I'm trying to find a link, they're speed multipliers
[21:36:16] <malcom2073> Basically a gearbox
[21:36:51] <malcom2073> Your spindle runout is multiplied by the speedo runout, but if it's still acceptable it's a good way to get high speed out of a standard mill
[21:37:03] <Rab> pcb_maker, can you clarify how the R8 mount would work? Like just a 12mm rod that would clamp into the collet you linked to?
[21:37:34] <Rab> Oh my god, that guy's an insane idiot for holding that thing in his hand.
[21:38:09] <pcb_maker> The motor from hobbyking is 12mm OD
[21:38:26] <Rab> My finger slipped when I was testing the similarly-sized BLDC for my spindle and I had to go to the ER for two stitches in my fingertip.
[21:38:45] <Rab> pcb_maker, do you disagree with my assessment of why clamping the housing directly is a bad idea?
[21:38:52] <pcb_maker> somaybe just to JB-weld the motor in the tool holder.
[21:39:23] <malcom2073> Spindle Speeders
[21:39:27] <malcom2073> that's what they're called
[21:40:28] <pcb_maker> I want is for pcb and very light engraving, so the bits will be very short, plus the very high rpm I'm hope it will work.
[21:40:48] <malcom2073> Yeah spindle speeders aren't cheap
[21:40:56] <pcb_maker> http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/JP/spindle-multiplier.html
[21:41:03] <pcb_maker> something like that?
[21:41:04] <malcom2073> Probably best off mounting a high speed router to the front of the mill
[21:41:13] <malcom2073> Yeah
[21:41:17] <malcom2073> Except not from china heh
[21:41:30] <pcb_maker> it's nice but OVER KIILL for what I need.
[21:42:04] <malcom2073> yep, just mount a router to the front of your machine.
[21:42:07] <pcb_maker> to take 1HP motor to drive 0.5 mm cutter is just waste of electricity
[21:42:54] <pcb_maker> malcom2073: I'm always done stuff at the most complicated way :)
[21:43:13] <malcom2073> pcb_maker: Designing a router mount to fit on your Z won't be trivial :P
[21:44:36] <pcb_maker> malcom2073: I have also a place for and reuse taped originals taped holes without to drill holes in the machine.
[21:44:45] <pcb_maker> but i want it nice,
[21:46:22] <pcb_maker> You have to know that women like to do stuff in the most complicated way just to make something look pretty.
[21:48:05] <malcom2073> That trait isn't limited to gender heh
[21:48:17] <pcb_maker> what os the smallest ER holder?
[21:49:16] <malcom2073> Looks like ER-8 may be
[21:52:33] <pcb_maker> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28395__KD36_60_07L_Brushless_Inrunner_3500kv.html
[21:52:37] <pcb_maker> Pink !
[21:53:07] <pcb_maker> Power(W) 1100
[21:53:14] <malcom2073> Problem with most of those, is their runout is terrible, and they don't handle sideloading
[21:53:22] <malcom2073> Now... use one of them to drive a spindle.... let me find a link
[21:55:35] <Rab> malcom2073, I keep posting mine, here it is again. ;) http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/
[21:55:39] <pcb_maker> but this is a motor with 2 bearings (top + bottom) and just the inner part spin, so i would guess that it has better accuracy
[21:56:06] <malcom2073> Rab: There was a guy selling spindles on ebay without a motor, basically add whatever motor you want with belt drive and it did 30krpm. It was small though
[21:56:09] <malcom2073> perfect for say, pcb routing
[21:56:29] <Rab> malcom2073, interesting! What was the price?
[21:56:36] <pcb_maker> Rab: but how to maunt it on the R8?
[21:56:37] <malcom2073> Rab: iirc, like $300
[21:56:44] <pcb_maker> but sed a link!
[21:56:49] <pcb_maker> send*
[21:57:34] <malcom2073> I'm searching!
[21:57:35] <malcom2073> :P
[21:57:40] <malcom2073> This was like... 3 years ago :/
[22:01:23] <pcb_maker> hehe I was much younger and prettier back than :)
[22:01:37] <malcom2073> This isn't it, but: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER11-Spindle-for-Sable-2015-SPD-ER11-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/201373317795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee2c8faa3
[22:02:46] <malcom2073> I can't find it, but it was that sort of thing :/
[22:03:20] <Rab> Home shop guy with a lathe?
[22:03:37] <Rab> Somebody has a website where they sell DIY spindles, don't remember any details though.
[22:03:48] <malcom2073> Rab: Might've been
[22:04:10] <malcom2073> He had them on ebay, but he also had a website, looked like it was 90's style website heh
[22:04:17] <Rab> That taiwanese spindle is interesting, wonder which bearings it uses and how replaceable they are.
[22:04:29] <malcom2073> Probably not serviceable
[22:05:05] <Rab> Press-fit? You could probably rebuild it if you really wanted.
[22:05:56] <Rab> Probably cheap skateboard bearings.
[22:06:09] <pcb_maker> I can do something much nicer on my machine,
[22:06:42] <pcb_maker> I dont like the belt drive.
[22:08:53] <PetefromTn_> Damn I need to get some sort of color wheel to be able to determine how to mix this Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow colors for anodizing...
[22:09:33] <malcom2073> Nothing wrong with belt drive
[22:09:41] <malcom2073> nice thing is, it decouples the motor bearings from the spindle bearings
[22:11:37] <pcb_maker> PetefromTn_ http://www.d.umn.edu/~mharvey/colorwheel.jpg
[22:12:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah I have seen that but I am curious if there is some sort of ratio calculator for specific colors or something
[22:12:41] <tjtr33> jt-mobile httrack can grab web sites for offline use, theres an android version here http://www.httrack.com/page/2/
[22:12:46] <pcb_maker> http://www.bigblackpig.com/painting/real-reds.html
[22:15:18] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Did your ano tests work well?
[22:15:51] <PetefromTn_> haven't tried it yet. Been machining all day. Tomorrow is anodizing experimentation day ;)
[22:16:41] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Are you using Caswell or the more normal type?
[22:18:13] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[22:18:39] <PetefromTn_> I am using some caswell plating products and others I am getting from other sources
[22:18:53] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Caswell I think tends to be lower voltage
[22:19:01] <os1r1s> Or lower amperage. I can't remember which
[22:20:05] <PetefromTn_> I am using Caswell degreaser and sealer products, I am using a solvent based anodizing dye from another company and I am using recommended voltages and amerages from an online calculator.
[22:20:43] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Cool. One thing I didn't know that may help you. The bath works better when more alum has disolved in it
[22:20:59] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: So your first one or two batches may not work well. But they can get better.
[22:21:11] <os1r1s> I used this guide ... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uponone.com%2Fhowtos%2F1.pdf&ei=2OKdVY-WMsOfNq3UvugJ&usg=AFQjCNE2d41ZKebZjcMMjR41gRWyRgVNSw&bvm=bv.96952980,d.eXY
[22:21:27] <os1r1s> Err crap
[22:21:29] <os1r1s> www.uponone.com/howtos/1.pdf
[22:21:31] <pcb_maker> PetefromTn_: It's not dangerous all the acid and the chemicals?
[22:21:34] <os1r1s> The full version of that guide
[22:22:24] <PetefromTn_> meh I am used to dangerous chemicals and finishes and this is not really all that dangerous
[22:25:31] <os1r1s> I need to run mine again
[22:25:39] <os1r1s> Its been so long since I anodized anything
[22:25:53] <PetefromTn_> what sort of setup do you use?
[22:28:34] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: http://gallery.mounicou.com/photos/i-xPsKMz9/0/L/i-xPsKMz9-L.jpg
[22:28:40] <os1r1s> That is the anodizing part
[22:28:44] <os1r1s> or the acid bath
[22:29:10] <os1r1s> First fail ... http://gallery.mounicou.com/photos/i-Gkmm8mx/0/L/i-Gkmm8mx-L.jpg
[22:29:13] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: ^
[22:29:43] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: The actual acid tank ... http://gallery.mounicou.com/photos/i-bFqD7P4/0/L/i-bFqD7P4-L.jpg
[22:29:44] <PetefromTn_> bad connection
[22:29:55] <os1r1s> Yeah
[22:29:57] <os1r1s> :)
[22:30:03] <os1r1s> But I learned a lot
[22:30:19] <PetefromTn_> are those little freezer balls to control temp or something?
[22:30:33] <os1r1s> Those little balls prevent misting
[22:30:54] <os1r1s> The tank tends to do that as the bubbles come up
[22:31:07] <PetefromTn_> sure
[22:31:17] <os1r1s> The titanium tube is a chiller tube
[22:31:18] <PetefromTn_> I will be doing the anodizing outside weather permitting
[22:31:28] <os1r1s> So I can regulate the temp of the tank
[22:31:59] <PetefromTn_> what size is that tank?
[22:32:06] <pcb_maker> there is ER11 collet for 0.8mm - 0.5mm ?
[22:32:33] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I forget. Pretty large. Probably 20"x14" wide
[22:32:37] <os1r1s> Maybe 10" high
[22:32:43] <os1r1s> err, 14" high
[22:32:46] <PetefromTn_> they sell fluids to cut down on misting
[22:33:08] <os1r1s> I added some of that too
[22:33:09] <PetefromTn_> I will be using 48 quart coolers for everything except the sealer bath
[22:33:24] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: http://gallery.mounicou.com/photos/i-WZtKcdw/0/L/i-WZtKcdw-L.jpg
[22:33:31] <os1r1s> I rigged up that bracket which worked pretty well
[22:33:49] <PetefromTn_> is that your color tank I gues
[22:33:51] <PetefromTn_> guess
[22:34:18] <os1r1s> It had sides cut out so I could lift it straight out of the cleaner into the tank, then into the acid, then sealant.
[22:34:24] <os1r1s> Yep. That was the blue dye
[22:35:00] <PetefromTn_> how successful were you with it?
[22:35:03] <pcb_maker> 18 litter of acid.. at home x_x
[22:35:42] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: It was alright. I honestly only did 2 or 3 runs of small things. It was more about learning than practicality
[22:35:53] <PetefromTn_> Ok
[22:36:05] <os1r1s> It seemed like the proper thing to do to finish parts
[22:36:12] <pcb_maker> It's look very nice but extremely dangerous
[22:36:30] <pcb_maker> how you deal with the acid?
[22:36:34] <PetefromTn_> I am TRYING to do this for all the aluminum parts I machine and sell. This is NOT a hobby for me but I am sure I will have challenges ahead getting the hang of the anodizing
[22:36:49] <PetefromTn_> it is a quite diluted battery acid
[22:37:02] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: You may find this interesting too ... http://gallery.mounicou.com/Hobby/Tumbling/
[22:37:21] <PetefromTn_> says page not found
[22:37:43] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: http://gallery.mounicou.com/Hobby/Tumbling/n-g3JcB
[22:37:57] <pcb_maker> I'm preferd to brush the alominum parts that I made.
[22:38:01] <PetefromTn_> HF tumber?
[22:38:06] <PetefromTn_> tumbler
[22:38:10] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Yep
[22:38:14] <pcb_maker> not cool as anodize but make it nice.
[22:38:29] <os1r1s> The progression is the amount of time left in the tumbler
[22:38:40] <os1r1s> With a relatively stock part and also with one that needed rust removal
[22:38:42] <pcb_maker> I'm usinf just a spinn brush o the cnc
[22:38:52] <PetefromTn_> pcb_maker yeah I brush finish a lot of my parts, also bead blast and occasionally hand polish
[22:39:34] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: My later attempts after adding ruby polish worked better
[22:40:20] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/004p3sP.jpg These are some of the parts I will be anodizing soon
[22:40:30] <pcb_maker> the machine is inside the home so most of the parts without any finish, aluminum dust is very harmful
[22:40:42] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/GYPSk3l.jpg
[22:41:10] <pcb_maker> PetefromTn_: the toolpath looks amazing!!
[22:41:12] <PetefromTn_> my machine is in an attached largish 2 car garage shop
[22:41:26] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Pretty
[22:41:35] <PetefromTn_> thanks but I dunno about amazing LOL
[22:41:40] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Which cam?
[22:42:17] <PetefromTn_> I thought I was doing pretty good until my machinist friend came over yesterday and posted a complex 3D code to my cincinatti created in Mastercam DAMN that was impressive
[22:42:27] <PetefromTn_> I use CamBam
[22:42:59] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: We use Nx mostly at work, but we do have 40 copies of mastercam. I'm trying to get the salesrep to give me a hobby copy :P
[22:43:47] <PetefromTn_> I am here to tell you Mastercam is just unbelievable. There is not really anything I think you could NOT do with it. The more my friend shows me about it the more I wish I could afford the damn thing LOL
[22:44:04] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Have you played with bobcad by chance?
[22:44:37] <PetefromTn_> No not really...but I do have a local machinist friend who has it and likes it. Despite the negative reviews it seems to get online.
[22:45:00] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Do you happen to know if he is using v27?
[22:45:06] <pcb_maker> I'm using the hsm express,
[22:45:13] <PetefromTn_> but to be honest he is kind of a very skilled manual machinist that happens to have a CNC mill. He does not do a ton of CNC parts.
[22:45:20] <pcb_maker> and meshcam.
[22:45:24] <PetefromTn_> HSM express looks very good
[22:45:41] <PetefromTn_> I dunno but I am sure it is probably an older version he has had it for a very long time
[22:45:52] <PetefromTn_> I could ask him when I see him again.
[22:46:10] <PetefromTn_> I need to drop by there and say hello anyways it has been some time since I visited him.
[22:46:12] <pcb_maker> mesh cam is very simple but the G code is sloooow and not very smart,
[22:46:36] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I like hsm express, but its limited on good toolpaths. Fusion360 is more interesting than hsm express
[22:47:00] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I have meshcam too. The toolpaths are very slow.
[22:47:01] <PetefromTn_> I wish you guys could have seen that little program my friend posted to my Cincinatti Arrow 500 running an 1/8 inch cutter in D2 tool steel last night. THAT WAS FREAKING COOL!!
[22:47:17] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: You should have taken a video
[22:47:19] <PetefromTn_> I thought they were the same thing
[22:47:25] <os1r1s> Would have been cool to see
[22:47:26] <PetefromTn_> I should have actually
[22:47:33] <PetefromTn_> it was like an hour long program
[22:47:36] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Fusion360 has 3d paths
[22:47:43] <os1r1s> Whereas hsm express really doesn't
[22:48:05] <PetefromTn_> what I think is the most impressive thing is the three axis arcing entries and exits in the toolpaths
[22:48:05] <pcb_maker> but it's based on cloud..
[22:48:22] <PetefromTn_> most of which is generated automatically by Mastercam depending on your inputs
[22:49:05] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I'm pretty sure fusion actually does that
[22:49:16] <pcb_maker> 3d machinig is nice but I think it is better to desigen the part to use 2.5 machining so the machining will go faster.
[22:49:17] <PetefromTn_> I still know very little about 3D toolpathing but watching him setup that program was inspiring
[22:49:43] <os1r1s> A helical plunge and also arced entry points going down gradually at an angle
[22:49:44] <PetefromTn_> pcb_maker Most all the parts I make are simple 2d toolpaths
[22:50:07] <PetefromTn_> but there are certain things you just can't do in 2d
[22:50:41] <PetefromTn_> one of the nicest things is being able to machine radiuses that you do not have cutters for with a simple appropriately sized ball endmill
[22:50:48] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I think 3d saves you from a lot more specialized bits
[22:50:55] <PetefromTn_> exactly
[22:50:56] <os1r1s> I think we just said the same thing
[22:51:12] <PetefromTn_> the part we are making now I simply could not make any other way
[22:51:26] <PetefromTn_> and it is not all that complicated a part actually
[22:51:44] <PetefromTn_> also tapered walls are easy too
[22:52:18] <PetefromTn_> CamBam does have the ability to machine a tapered wall along a profile at a specific angle tho but it is not nearly as adaptable as what Mastercam can do
[22:52:23] * furrywolf needs to get+learn cad+cam
[22:53:11] <pcb_maker> I need to find a way to generate the tool path for a PCB in much epichent way, now I'm doing that through solidwork ( I've made the PCB in solidworks) and it is sooo slow process
[22:53:15] <furrywolf> and seeing as I'm apparantly now a cripple for a while, maybe should do it now. heh.
[22:53:15] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I've collected quite a few cam programs. If I had the money to buy, I would get the hsmworks plugin for solidworks.
[22:53:33] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Is it an eagle file?
[22:54:15] <pcb_maker> no, I sketch everything in solidworks
[22:54:26] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Eagle is easy to get to gcode
[22:54:37] <PetefromTn_> I have purchased and use Sheetcam and CamBam and I have used Mastercam a good bit working in local shops. I have also played with some of the cheap or free online ones.
[22:54:42] <pcb_maker> what is Eagle ?
[22:54:52] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: A pcb/circuit design tool
[22:55:03] <os1r1s> There is a light/free version
[22:55:18] <pcb_maker> I don't even know about that,
[22:55:48] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: do you want to see something?
[22:56:05] <os1r1s> Sure
[22:57:27] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: http://os1r1s.com/?p=217 and http://os1r1s.com/?p=239
[22:58:29] <PetefromTn_> how do you hold down the PCB's on the vac panel when you drill the holes?
[23:02:59] <os1r1s> And he is gone
[23:05:09] <pcb_maker> I'm here, the computer work o the rendering..
[23:06:01] <os1r1s> Ahh, ok
[23:07:42] <pcb_maker> http://i.imgur.com/PnBHcOn.jpg
[23:07:49] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: ^
[23:08:10] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: sworks renders pretty electronics
[23:08:17] <os1r1s> Too much shit for a PCB though
[23:09:30] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: which end mill you are using?
[23:11:35] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I've done similar renederings, https://www.dropbox.com/s/bs0zuex8l79nz73/PapilioCase.PDF?dl=0
[23:11:56] <os1r1s> Though obviously the circuits in sworks are better
[23:12:15] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I typically use precisebits endmills
[23:15:19] <os1r1s> 22:48 os1r1s: pcb_maker: I've done similar renederings, https://www.dropbox.com/s/bs0zuex8l79nz73/PapilioCase.PDF?dl=0
[23:15:19] <os1r1s> 22:49 os1r1s: Though obviously the circuits in sworks are better
[23:15:19] <os1r1s> 22:49 os1r1s: pcb_maker: I typically use precisebits endmills
[23:15:54] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: It's disconnect me, I've lose something?
[23:16:02] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I just repasted
[23:16:37] <pcb_maker> Thank you :)
[23:17:10] <pcb_maker> what kaid of end mill is "precisebits endmills"?
[23:17:23] <pcb_maker> V style?
[23:17:52] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: If I'm correct you have the tiag milling machin.
[23:18:13] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I have several. That is one. I actually just sold the dedicated one I used for PCBs.
[23:18:25] <os1r1s> So now I'll do it on my taig again when I need to
[23:18:48] <pcb_maker> but how the bit look like ?
[23:18:49] <os1r1s> I use 3 diff bits
[23:19:14] <os1r1s> And etcher, a router, and a drill
[23:19:18] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Carbide-PCB-Board-0-3mm-30-Engraving-Bits-CNC-Router-Tool-V-shape-in-Box-/371290350739?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5672a12493
[23:19:24] <pcb_maker> something like that?
[23:19:30] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: http://www.precisebits.com/applications/pcbtools.htm
[23:19:36] <os1r1s> It explains the diff typed
[23:19:38] <os1r1s> types
[23:20:22] <Rab> The chinese bits are very poor quality...I've tried them, and I can't recommend them.
[23:21:28] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: I'm asking because you use milling machine with low speed spindle, and you get spectacular results
[23:21:33] <Rab> I have some LPKF tooling specifically for PCB engraving which is much better, but it's pretty expensive; ~$20 a cutter.
[23:22:48] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I've used it and my dedicated one. Both work
[23:23:09] <os1r1s> It depends on if you are just doing PTH or if you want to do SMD
[23:23:16] <os1r1s> And if SMD, what size traces
[23:23:25] <pcb_maker> I'm really don't want to go over 1000 rpm for long time and the PCBs that I made look like crap..
[23:24:16] <pcb_maker> I want to do SMT 0.5 mm traces will be fine for me.
[23:24:46] <Rab> pcb_maker, good conical cutters will do that.
[23:24:49] <pcb_maker> now I'm use the smallest center drill fro HF to make the PCB.
[23:26:55] <Rab> renesis might not be around ATM, but he uses these pyramid cutters in a Taig for PCB milling and gets good results: https://www.2linc.com/engraving/pyramid_1-8.htm
[23:27:48] <pcb_maker> http://i.imgur.com/SqvBSVb.jpg
[23:28:17] <pcb_maker> Rab: with what rpm?
[23:28:39] <Rab> pcb_maker, not sure. I use an LPKF ProtoMat, which has a 20K RPM spindle.
[23:29:22] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/lpkf/
[23:29:22] <pcb_maker> but you can see the issue with the pcb that I made?
[23:30:10] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: The results you see with the taig were done at 10k rpm
[23:30:32] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: The results with the WM were done at 25k rpm
[23:30:38] <Rab> I see that there's some burring, but it also seems like the resolution isn't great. Did it take several passes to get a complete cut?
[23:31:01] <Rab> At least it looks usable.
[23:31:38] <pcb_maker> feed very hight - one pass - center drill from HF - and low rpm
[23:32:11] <pcb_maker> Rab: it is usable, but it's ugly.
[23:32:18] <pcb_maker> btw you see the leds?
[23:32:30] <Rab> I see where they might go...?
[23:32:48] <pcb_maker> yesterday..
[23:32:54] <Rab> Oh, nope.
[23:32:54] <cncjerry_> anyone home? I have a problem, of course, can't figure it out. Typical arc to center problem. the error in almost all cases is .0005xxx. I can't figure out what changed. I
[23:33:15] <cncjerry_> it
[23:33:36] <os1r1s> Who was it that recommended AMP (applied motion products) servo amps?
[23:33:46] <cncjerry_> its like my machine isn't writing enough decimal places or linuxcnc is only reading the first three
[23:33:57] <pcb_maker> http://i.imgur.com/UFmwosm.png and http://i.imgur.com/OxsmTXg.png
[23:34:01] <pcb_maker> Rab: ^
[23:34:19] <Rab> pcb_maker, neat!
[23:34:51] * furrywolf waits for those to slowly load because they should be jpgs instead of pngs
[23:35:00] <pcb_maker> I want to make few rink like that in Red, Yellow, Green and Blue
[23:35:09] <pcb_maker> and make a stack light out of tham
[23:35:15] <pcb_maker> rings*
[23:35:17] <Rab> pcb_maker, high RPM and good-quality carbide tooling are important for PCB milling. I think you're on the right path with adding a compact, high-speed aux spindle to your mill.
[23:35:18] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: What are those for?
[23:35:44] <furrywolf> to match his/her fingernails, apparantly. :)
[23:35:55] <pcb_maker> HER!
[23:36:28] <pcb_maker> It is gonig to be a stack light, (the signal tower light on the maching)
[23:36:42] <cncjerry_> anyone know if there is a way to change the arc as in G2/G3 tolerance in 2.5?
[23:37:49] <Rab> cncjerry_, I see your questions but I don't have an answer, sorry!
[23:37:51] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: You should do this too ... http://os1r1s.com/?p=145
[23:37:56] <furrywolf> pcb_maker: should be an easy enough project
[23:38:48] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: it is less then 0.0005 in
[23:38:59] <os1r1s> The runout on your present spindle?
[23:39:32] <cncjerry_> Rab, thanks. I've been using this setup for years. I had a hard drive failure and had to reinstall CATIA. I had a problem with the g-code formatter with arcs but it was just the G90.1 and G91.1 that fixed it. Now this thing is spitting out what looks like enough digits but I keep getting errors loading simple code.
[23:39:33] <pcb_maker> but the thefast feed + low rpm shred it,
[23:40:40] <furrywolf> I tried using bits that small once, and found my 2800rpm spindle didn't cut it.
[23:42:18] <furrywolf> I was thinking of making a crappy air spindle, using one of those $20 harbor freight high-speed mini die grinders.
[23:43:25] <cncjerry_> I can't find a tolerance parameter except in v2.7 I guess it was added.
[23:43:36] <Rab> furrywolf, some people have good luck with those.
[23:44:03] <furrywolf> I never have good luck with anything. lol
[23:44:20] <Rab> Surely a better avenue of investigation than the Harbor Fright electrical mototool.
[23:44:39] <furrywolf> as a general rule, if it's from harbor freight and has a power cord, it doesn't work.
[23:44:58] <Rab> Lies, the $15 HF angle grinder is indestructable.
[23:45:41] <Rab> That might be the exception that proves the rule. Their $10 palm sander lasted about 15 minutes for me.
[23:46:07] <furrywolf> I met a guy who went through 18 harbor freight drills building a metal building.
[23:46:49] <pcb_maker> i have the file and the feeler gauge and the free set of screws and it is working fine
[23:47:04] <cncjerry_> I have a friend that bought one of the $20 battery drills and it lasted longer than his dewalt. The only story like that I've ever heard.
[23:47:18] <pcb_maker> also the torqe meter, and tons of sockets.
[23:47:36] <furrywolf> cncjerry_: did he run his dewalt over with his pickup backing out of the parking spot at the store where he bought it?
[23:48:23] <furrywolf> heh, I bought a harbor freight torque wrench last week, used it two days ago... it doesn't click, and the calibration is off by 4 ftlbs. on a 3/8" drive one, that's a lot. time to take it back and see if the next one randomly has better tolerances...
[23:49:37] <Rab> furrywolf, beam-type is cheaper and stronger...even HF might not be able to screw it up.
[23:50:18] * furrywolf tries to buy real brands, be it anything from tools to sex toys...
[23:50:25] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: you havevery intrasting blog
[23:50:35] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I'm shitty about updating it.
[23:50:41] <Rab> Hmm, apparently they only have click-type torque wrenches.
[23:50:42] <os1r1s> I need to do 7 months worth of updates
[23:50:51] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Thank you though :)
[23:51:00] <furrywolf> Rab: beam-type is also less accurate, requires being held in a position where you can see the face, usually isn't available in 3/8" drive, and generally is annoying.
[23:51:00] <furrywolf> and is much slower to use
[23:51:07] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: ho do you work with the probe?
[23:51:12] <pcb_maker> how*
[23:52:19] <os1r1s> I use the probe to help locate parts and/or to do depth probes
[23:53:17] <pcb_maker> it i look very nice, you made it yourself?
[23:53:22] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Like this ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyphJ8BYcE
[23:53:27] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: No. It was a cheap one
[23:53:34] <os1r1s> It would be easy enough to make
[23:53:36] <furrywolf> doesn't have to be american... I want to order two made-in-spain tools next... a pair of grip-on locking pliers (the new vise grips are garbage!) and a bs atelier lines paris... just needs to not be crap, which pretty much rules out china.
[23:53:38] <os1r1s> But would cost me mroe in time
[23:53:50] <Rab> furrywolf, I believe it's actually more accurate but less precise. Deflection of steel is supposedly very predictable.
[23:53:52] <pcb_maker> cheap ?? probe??
[23:54:15] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: Yeah. I think it was $150
[23:54:34] <pcb_maker> os1r1s: the digitizing done with linux cnc?
[23:54:58] <furrywolf> Rab: accuracy also includes your ability to use it. if you're looking at it off-angle, quickly,... also, you think a chinese wrench will be made with accurate or repeatable steel between batches? :P
[23:55:34] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: That was not, but the next one will be. I'm in the process of converting all my stuff to linuxcnc
[23:55:35] <Rab> furrywolf, the latter criticism applies to chinese click-type wrenches too, of course.
[23:56:08] <os1r1s> I can't imagine linuxcnc will ahve any issue with it. Its dead simple from a circuit perspective
[23:56:09] <furrywolf> yes. like the one I just got, which is crap. heh.
[23:56:24] <furrywolf> I have a Mac 3/8" drive click torque wrench... but I can't find it!
[23:56:29] <furrywolf> so got a HF one...
[23:56:52] <cncjerry_> Furry, no, not kidding, I go to horror freight all the time for things I expect to throw away, though I did buy a set of wrenchs for $20 that are decent. This guy has had that POS drill for about 5yrs. His dewalt has a bearing problem.
[23:57:26] <pcb_maker> I've start ti make my probe from brass and acrylic, ball bearings and pcb, but i have no idea how to make it work as a digitizer
[23:58:34] <cncjerry_> Also, back to my arc problem, I loaded the code on mach3 and np. I can't figure out what could have changed to cause this. the error is .0005536 which is .0000536 over the limit I guess. I guess I can't change the tolerance. this project turned into 5 hrs of dicking around instead of 20 minutes of cutting.
[23:58:46] <os1r1s> pcb_maker: I had to do some resoldering on that one and change out the spring
[23:59:16] <pcb_maker> I mean the software level.
[23:59:49] <os1r1s> I think there is some built in stuff for bed of nails
[23:59:57] * furrywolf curls up into a wolfyball and yawns