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[00:03:31] <AGR> skunksleep: Please see my hal file.
http://pastebin.com/jfVG5h4E
[03:43:20] <s1dev> anyone around?
[03:45:13] <XXCoder> I think no
[03:57:50] <Tom_itx> just the night watchman
[03:58:21] <archivist> the rest are at work, asleep or down the pub
[03:59:34] <archivist> and the bots are just waiting for the real question
[04:00:13] <XXCoder> just watch out for grok
[04:00:24] <XXCoder> grue that is
[04:58:37] <Jymmm> Would anytime have an idea what this thing uses internally to switch the 20A load on/off? a relay?
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-LTB30-1LZ-Incandescent-Resistive-Inductive-5-10-15-30/dp/B002WTC91K
[04:59:03] <Jymmm> anyone*
[05:04:22] <Jymmm> I want to switch between 20A inductive loads and not sure if a relay is the way to go, or if there is some panel with this type of setup already. It's basically to cycle between appliances when on generator.
[05:05:53] <Jymmm> I only have 1800W available on the gen, and would rather wire something up to switch in/out each load every 30 to 90 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat.
[05:23:34] <malcom2073> Relay would be easiest
[05:32:21] <s1dev> Anyone have any experience with the Tormach slant bed lathes?
[06:13:38] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Since I only have 2KW available, what I'd like to do is only have certain circuits active, and switch between the crotical loads as needed (Frig, Freezer, AC, Lights) and not power up things like the hottub
[06:15:27] <malcom2073> yeah I'd wire up some relays, you can get AC relays capable of that current fairly cheap, DIN rail mountable so you can have them organized all nice and neat too. What are you using for a timer?
[06:17:15] <Jymmm> malcom2073: expensively, timer relays. But maybe an arduino and some SSR's for control of the contactors.
[06:18:20] <Jymmm> malcom2073: a coule of these might work
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10000007/1147900-4-channel-ac-dc-relay-module
[06:19:30] <malcom2073> Yeah, I'd watch those though, I've seen a couple (sainsmart was guilty of it) which had traces a bit closer than I'd like for 110AC
[06:19:49] <Jymmm> http://www.dx.com/p/produino-diy-pc817-8-channel-5v-relay-module-w-optocoupler-extension-board-blue-292124
[06:20:19] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Heh, I'll watch out for that.
[06:20:52] <malcom2073> But yeah that should work fine
[06:21:03] <Jymmm> I DO have some "real" 110V relays, not sure if they at 10, 15, or 20A though, all DIN rail mount
[06:21:26] <malcom2073> The DIN rail mountable stuff is nice if you can get it, bit more expensive heh
[06:22:20] <Jymmm> pricer but interestng
http://www.dx.com/p/8-channel-5v-solid-state-relay-module-blue-black-green-250v-2a-213880
[06:22:43] <malcom2073> Solid states typically have a lower current rating, as they need heatsinks for any decent amount of current
[06:22:49] <malcom2073> Ah yeah, 2 amp
[06:23:08] <Jymmm> Those would be JSUT for "control", not load handling
[06:23:11] <Jymmm> JUST*
[06:23:17] <malcom2073> Oh control of the big relays?
[06:23:29] <Jymmm> 5v to coil of REAL relays
[06:23:43] <malcom2073> yeah that'd work
[06:23:53] <Jymmm> 5v signal to control 110V coil
[06:24:02] <malcom2073> Yeah
[06:24:23] <Jymmm> "Omron 5V solid state relay 240V 2A,"
[06:25:00] <malcom2073> I'm assuming that's 240VAC... solid state AC and DC relays are entirely different
[06:25:29] <Jymmm> Well, I'll just get the other board with real relay then
[06:25:40] <Jymmm> OHHHHHHHHHHHHH
[06:26:00] <Jymmm> no, nm
[06:26:23] <malcom2073> "the input power supply: 5V DC (160mA);" <- That doesn't seem correct, but the datasheet is "Service Unavailable" at the moment
[06:26:35] <archivist> SSR drives the load direct and does 0 level switching for inductive loads and is cheap
[06:28:26] <malcom2073> archivist: AC SSR's do, DC do not.
[06:28:36] <Jymmm> So, I guess if I had SPDT relays/contactors. leave the NO contacts under "normal" mains control, and switch in each branch as needed. Not sure how to seperate mains/gen power though.
[06:30:05] <malcom2073> You really don't want to be designing your own automatic switching equipment
[06:30:41] <malcom2073> Switching loads on/off to load balance the generator yeah, but switching mains between main and generator power?
[06:30:44] <Jymmm> malcom2073: You're right. But I'm not aware of anything that would allow you to switch on/off branches as needed.
[06:31:58] <malcom2073> You could get a auto switching subpanel, and put everything on there, then attach relays to the outputs. Then it'll automatically switch over to the subpanel when the generator kicks on, and allow you to switch individual lines on/off.
[06:32:03] <Jymmm> In the panel, all the circuits are on a single buss bar. But I need to break them out to each individual circuit.
[06:32:22] <malcom2073> I mean the actual mains/generator handoff
[06:32:48] <_methods> don't most people make a sub panel the generator goes into and supplies the circuits they want to keep alive?
[06:32:50] <Jymmm> Yeah, That I'm aware of, but still need to brea out individual circuits
[06:33:19] <malcom2073> Just break them out off the subpanel. You have wires coming *out* of the panel, run them into relays before they go to their circuits.
[06:34:14] <Jymmm> _methods: Yes, but I dont want to energize the relays on a continous basis.
[06:34:22] <_methods> yeah i get that
[06:35:26] <_methods> i thought you were worried about energizing the whole main braker panel
[06:35:55] <Jymmm> no, just breaking out the critical circuits FROM the main panel,
[06:36:23] <Jymmm> for both total (under mains) and individual control (under gen)
[06:40:57] <Jymmm> Holy Crap $400
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-10-Circuit-Manual-Transfer-Switch-Kit-31410CRK/202214969
[06:42:13] <Jymmm> Is there panel that does on/off/on that goes by a different name?
[06:44:51] <Jymmm> An A/B switch if you will
[06:57:09] <Jymmm> _methods: Interlock...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GbtRxcb-cmA#t=261
[07:07:59] <EricBear> Everning all from oz
[07:16:40] <skunkworks> good early morning from WI
[07:21:55] <archivist> sammich time UK
[07:27:16] <EricBear> Hi guys in diycnc sorry about the delay in reply
[07:28:08] <EricBear> wonder if this is the right channel to get some help reguarding cnc router table
[07:28:15] <skunkworks> well - you are upside down... It probably takes time for the signal to get straitened out...
[07:28:43] <EricBear> could be that
[07:29:16] <skunkworks> ask away
[07:29:29] <EricBear> I have a gerber system 48 plus router table
[07:29:41] <EricBear> when i use the X axis it will go the right direction and then when i push the button to go again it goes the other way
[07:30:46] <EricBear> wondering what could be causing this to happan
[07:31:39] <archivist> scope, meter and some diagnosis
[07:33:44] <EricBear> wish i had a scope
[07:33:59] <EricBear> or know how to use it
[07:34:56] <EricBear> could it be a voltage problum
[07:36:03] <EricBear> It user 6 wire steppers wired up as 4 wire
[07:36:21] <archivist> bipolar
[07:36:29] <EricBear> yes
[07:37:05] <archivist> but that is likely not the problem
[07:37:15] <EricBear> seams to hapan with a little speed
[07:37:40] <EricBear> im running aroune 200
[07:38:03] <archivist> 200 midgets a furlong?
[07:38:04] <EricBear> take i above that and it starts playing up
[07:38:31] <EricBear> mile :-)
[07:39:29] <EricBear> very old steppers gerber is 20 years old
[07:39:38] <archivist> numbers without units dont mean a lot
[07:40:12] <archivist> I also dont know if you are using an old control and drivers
[07:40:21] <EricBear> was running well when I got it had to rip out all motherboare and replace with new BOB and stepper drivers
[07:41:12] <archivist> some bobs dont drive some drivers very well
[07:42:09] <EricBear> the y and Z axis seame to run ok
[07:42:21] <archivist> be wary of opto outputs on the bob driving an opto on the driver, ends up with too low current
[07:42:39] <EricBear> the BOB and steppers are from masmind
[07:42:44] <archivist> random direction or missed steps are the result
[07:43:01] <archivist> we cannot know all on the market
[07:44:07] <EricBear> http://www.massmind.org/Techref/io/stepper/THB6064/index.htm
[07:44:44] <EricBear> looks like i will have to keep trying to see if i can find the problum
[07:45:25] <EricBear> was thinking of getting a gecko driver
[07:46:13] * jthornton likes his 203v drives
[07:46:23] * Tom_itx does as well
[07:48:05] <archivist> swap the drive with another axis see if the fault moves to decide bob or drive
[07:49:00] <asdfasd> anyone experienced with UV inkjet printing?
[07:49:00] <EricBear> so it looks like I will have to buy a gecko driver
[07:49:48] <archivist> asdfasd, CaptHindsight likely if anyone at all
[07:49:53] <EricBear> always teams to be stepper motor on the X axis
[07:50:09] <asdfasd> archivist thanks
[07:50:26] <EricBear> always seams to be stepper motor on the X axis
[07:50:34] <archivist> if you swap the driver with Y and it is still X it is not the driver
[07:51:53] <EricBear> right ok thank you i will go do some more testing just to see if i can nut out stepper moter or driver
[07:52:16] <archivist> dont forget the bob can be faulty too
[07:52:30] <EricBear> have funny feeling its the motor
[07:53:32] <archivist> motors going backwards is a user problem
[07:54:07] <archivist> dont try to step too fast or accelerate too fast
[07:54:30] <EricBear> ok thank you archivist have to go pick up daughter from work. thank you for your help hope to catch you in the future
[07:54:58] <EricBear> you normaly on here
[07:55:06] <archivist> yer
[07:55:29] <archivist> but plenty of others too
[07:55:47] <EricBear> ok thankyou will come back in latter after i do some more testing
[08:07:48] <CaptHindsight> asdfasd: just with making the radcure inks and the printers
[08:24:21] <Deejay> hoi
[09:15:32] <AGR> test
[09:15:50] <skunkworks> 123
[09:16:56] <archivist> 7042ns
[09:18:51] <skunkworks> AGR, your spindle-enable signal is not hooked to anything..
[09:18:57] <skunkworks> in your hal file
[09:20:36] <skunkworks> so hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable is never enabled.
[09:21:17] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/jfVG5h4E
[09:27:56] <AGR> skunkworks: thanks, the vfd does not seem to need a enable to run and I don't see a terminal to connect a wire to the vfd, do I need to have the enable statement to make LinuxCNC let the 7i33 output voltage for the speed control
[09:31:03] <skunkworks> I am not talking about the vfd.. the actual pwm module needs to be enabled.
[09:33:10] <AGR> skunkworks: oh,
[09:36:39] <AGR> skunkworks: can you give me a example of what that should look like
[09:39:30] <skunkworks> cheap and drity - change net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable
[09:39:32] <skunkworks> tp
[09:39:33] <skunkworks> to
[09:40:00] <skunkworks> net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable emcmot.00.enable
[09:40:22] <skunkworks> that would enable the pwm when the servo drives come up.
[09:43:09] <AGR> skunkworks: do I use emcmot.00 or emcmot.01
[09:43:38] <skunkworks> doesn't really matter - they all get turned on at the same time.. (when linuxcnc turns 'on')
[09:44:26] <AGR> skunkworks: thank you, I will tryout
[09:49:17] <AGR> skunkworks: are these lines correct in my spindle section: loadrt scale count=1 and addf scale.0 servo-thread
[10:29:24] <furkanyilmaz11> Hi all I am testing my device by arcspiral g-code. In jog mode the machine is very fast as I want. But in g-code mode axises are too much slower than jog mode. I want to make faster it. I tried to change the f value in g-code. And I increased values from ini file. But currently g-code motions isnt fast like jog mode. Any suggest?
[10:31:06] <cpresser> furkanyilmaz11: acceleration? motion-blending?
[10:31:10] <skunkworks> can you increase your acceleration?
[10:34:59] <furkanyilmaz11> acceleration is 750 and speed is 300
[10:35:06] <furkanyilmaz11> I think thats enough isn tit?
[10:35:13] <furkanyilmaz11> isnt it?
[10:35:42] <furkanyilmaz11> And in jog mode fast so that means accel is enough right?
[10:36:30] <furkanyilmaz11> When I jog same distance as g-code. Thats going fast but in g-code its slow
[10:37:17] <furkanyilmaz11> I am trying to increase feed percent. But speed is changing %0 to %150 but after 150 percent speed is same
[10:41:05] <cpresser> furkanyilmaz11: use the MDI-Tab fopr test. programm G0 and G1 moves and see how they behave
[10:45:06] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/city-of-toronto/colonial-broach-grinder/1085181244?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[10:45:09] <zeeshan> interesting machine
[10:52:41] <archivist> damned rare, never seen one before
[10:53:09] <furrywolf> nor have I.
[10:53:42] <archivist> zeeshan, buy it so you can make broaches
[10:54:17] <archivist> you do need moooooore shed space
[10:55:02] * furrywolf needs a shed. :(
[10:55:41] * skunkworks has needs
[10:56:16] * furrywolf has needs too, but can't find the right woman
[11:04:15] <jdh> have you considered other genders?
[11:05:54] <furrywolf> not interested.
[11:06:21] <Rab> Man skilled with strapon is probably even rarer, but could be interesting.
[11:07:36] <jdh> at that point, wouldn't it be easier to skip the strap on part?
[11:07:38] <Rab> (Cisgendered)
[11:07:52] <furrywolf> men don't tend to need strapons...
[11:08:02] <furrywolf> but, as I said, I'm not interested in men.
[11:14:31] <furrywolf> bleh. I really do not want to pull this generator apart again, but I think I have to. at a minimum, I need to fix a sticking exhaust valve.
[11:16:28] <furrywolf> it was sticking after the first test run, but it was burning so much oil back then that I figured it was just getting gummed up. when rebuilding the motor, got it nice and free with brake cleaner, and now the engine isn't burning oil... but it's still sticking again.
[11:17:45] <archivist> use a detergent oil so it gums up less
[11:18:03] <cradek> is a sticking valve just a lubrication problem? I have only seen that once, and the valve froze because there was NO oil getting up there
[11:18:11] <furrywolf> I'm using 10w30 motor oil just like honda says I should. as far as I know, all motor oils are detergent oils...
[11:18:28] <furrywolf> cradek: I think it's chinese clearances causing the issue.
[11:18:38] <furrywolf> it's a brand new chinese head with brand new chinese valves in it....
[11:18:43] <cradek> ah
[11:18:48] <cradek> sounds harder to fix
[11:19:11] <furrywolf> and I really hope it isn't developing a rod knock... I thought I heard one yesterday, but it was pretty quiet, and I'm not sure.
[11:19:12] <archivist> not all oils have the same level of detergent
[11:19:37] <archivist> piston slap? all oiling based
[11:19:55] <furrywolf> sounded more like rod to me.
[11:20:01] <archivist> is it pumped or splashed about
[11:20:15] <furrywolf> I'll give it an oil change... I was going to wait 5 hours, and it's only been 3, but it can't hurt.
[11:20:19] <furrywolf> splash
[11:22:31] <CaptHindsight> hydraulic lifters can get sticky and stay compressed
[11:23:00] <furrywolf> it doesn't have hydraulic lifters. lol
[11:23:06] <furrywolf> it's a 4.5hp generator motor
[11:23:26] <CaptHindsight> if valves are not opening in a solid valve train then something got bent or worn down
[11:23:57] <furrywolf> it's not closing.
[11:24:12] <CaptHindsight> i used to be the master of breaking valve trains :)
[11:24:55] <furrywolf> how the hell do you do that? :P
[11:25:00] <archivist> I got quick at taking the side off hammering the valve and carrying on with one vehicle
[11:25:11] <CaptHindsight> return spring broken? bent valve?
[11:25:52] <furrywolf> it's tight in the guide.
[11:26:24] <archivist> polish it a bit
[11:26:28] <furrywolf> it got gummed up quickly again, and feels like you're pushing it through honey... when you let go, it slowly squishes back up...
[11:26:41] <CaptHindsight> carbon buildup? bent stem? guide damaged?
[11:26:47] <furrywolf> yes, but that requires taking the engine apart again. as I said before, <furrywolf> bleh. I really do not want to pull this generator apart again, but I think I have to. at a minimum, I need to fix a sticking exhaust valve.
[11:26:55] <furrywolf> hence why I think I have to. heh.
[11:27:02] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: brand new chinese garbage
[11:27:04] <archivist> enjoy :)
[11:27:11] <CaptHindsight> Magic Motor Flush!
[11:27:46] <furrywolf> the generator came with the original head off, and a new chinese head. so I figured there must have been a reason to scrap the old head, and put the new head on.
[11:27:50] <CaptHindsight> heh, so you didn't mic the stem and measure the ID of the guide?!
[11:28:06] <furrywolf> it came entirely pre-assembled.
[11:28:27] <CaptHindsight> figures
[11:28:28] <cradek> guess it could be bent too
[11:28:34] <cradek> just hammer it in there, it'll go
[11:28:39] <zeeshan> bfh
[11:28:43] <furrywolf> china sells complete assembled heads for less than honda sells a valve for. heh.
[11:29:09] <CaptHindsight> "and sometimes we even check the tolerances" by eye
[11:29:21] <CaptHindsight> another bargain
[11:30:01] <furrywolf> I wouldn't have bought it, but it came with the generator...
[11:30:20] <furrywolf> I could clean up the old one it came with, but it felt like the valves were a little loose.
[11:31:11] <archivist> rattling fit for the win
[11:31:11] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-GX200-Cylinder-Head-Assembly-kit-Honda-Replacement-Free-Shipping-/280957876934 they come like that, rockers installed and everything, ready to be bolted on.
[11:31:35] <CaptHindsight> ate least it doesn't burn oil :)
[11:32:10] <CaptHindsight> and the piston should move it back out of the way
[11:32:16] <furrywolf> no, it doesn't burn any oil. my rehone job seems to have worked well.
[11:33:03] <furrywolf> when I first started it, before the rebuild, it make a cloud of blue smoke so heavy it settled to the ground and obscured the entire area...
[11:33:35] <furrywolf> found the rings so worn the oil rings were actually smaller than the piston! they were loose, not stuck, just so worn they no longer stuck out in the slightest...
[11:34:16] <furrywolf> measured the ring end gap on the compression rings, don't remember the exact numbers, but something like twice the service limit.
[11:37:05] <furrywolf> it wasn't "which feeler fits", but "how many fit" :)
[11:37:29] <CaptHindsight> does the block use sleeves in the cylinders?
[11:37:37] <furrywolf> yes
[11:39:07] <furrywolf> the knock is really pissing me off... all the bearings felt good...
[11:39:13] <furrywolf> and the piston skirt OD was good...
[11:41:23] <furrywolf> I could just keep running it and hope the valve stops sticking
[11:41:30] <furrywolf> it seems to quiet down at high rpm...
[11:41:38] <furrywolf> or high temperature more likely
[11:41:48] <CaptHindsight> the stem and guide will wear
[11:42:50] <CaptHindsight> probably get away with it if the stem and guide are straight
[11:43:15] <furrywolf> and if the knock doesn't get worse, I might just label it "good enough".
[11:44:54] <furrywolf> if it breaks, rebuild it again. heh.
[11:46:13] <furrywolf> and/or sell it quickly!
[12:01:01] <dirty_d> I interpolated a 0.332" hole with a 0.005" finishing pass, came out to 0.325"
[12:01:22] <dirty_d> dont have the 0.25" end mill around, but is it probably just 0.0035" undersized?
[12:01:29] <dirty_d> that seems like a lot
[12:02:00] <cradek> what is the end mill's length and diameter?
[12:02:25] <dirty_d> 0.25" and about 0.75" stickout
[12:02:48] <skunkworks> what material and what feed :)
[12:02:58] <dirty_d> finishing pass was 0.005" doc at about 5 ipm
[12:03:01] <dirty_d> 6061
[12:03:10] <dirty_d> 2000rpm
[12:03:11] <os1r1s> Can anyone help answer some questions about switching a mini-mill from steppers to servos?
[12:03:20] <skunkworks> you have to go slower
[12:03:42] <dirty_d> the cutter was flexing?
[12:03:44] <archivist> dirty_d, have you corrected any machine backlash
[12:04:05] <dirty_d> archivist, yes its 0.0015" on x and y and compensated
[12:04:57] <dirty_d> the hole came out round, just 0.007" undersized
[12:05:25] <dirty_d> which is rediculous
[12:05:55] <dirty_d> skunkworks, why?
[12:06:41] <cradek> is that hss or carbide?
[12:06:42] <jdh> I had that happen. my end mill was smaller than advertised
[12:06:44] <dirty_d> HSS
[12:06:58] <dirty_d> and cheap, so it very well may be that undersized
[12:07:01] <archivist> what path mode too
[12:07:01] <Rab> dirty_d, 6061 is pretty soft. Could it be that the surface is heating up and "smearing" enough for the apparent decrease in diameter? Are you climb or conventional milling?
[12:07:20] <PetefromTn_> have you mic'd the endmill?
[12:07:32] <dirty_d> climb milling, helical interpolated then a circular interpolated finishing pass at 3/8" depth
[12:07:52] <archivist> exact path or what
[12:07:54] <dirty_d> PetefromTn_, no thats the first thing im going to do when im near it
[12:08:01] <PetefromTn_> OK
[12:08:04] <skunkworks> at 5 inches a minute - the circle (.075") machined in 2.8 seconds.. You need to take into acount the outside of the cut..
[12:08:33] <cradek> yeah, crank your spindle faster and cut a lot slower
[12:09:06] <dirty_d> archivist, i set exact path mode in my ini file
[12:09:28] <PetefromTn_> at least it is undersize you can always make it bigger ;)
[12:09:50] <dirty_d> meh, it was to be threaded, so it was close enough anyway
[12:09:55] <dirty_d> but still
[12:10:31] <archivist> it is a gcode too
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G61-G61_1 have you got some cam setting a looser tolerance
[12:10:41] <dirty_d> i wonder if the cam program changed the path mode
[12:10:55] <dirty_d> gonna look at taht now
[12:19:54] <dirty_d> looks good to me
http://pastebin.com/yMBatBUd
[12:31:04] <dirty_d> what would the cutter speed at the outside of the hole be? 0.25" / 0.082" * 5ipm = 15.24ipm
[12:31:59] <dirty_d> thats 0.00762" per tooth on a 0.25" 2-flute endmill
[12:32:03] <dirty_d> i guess that is my problem
[12:35:57] <skunkworks> yep
[12:42:43] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, not if you don't ask them
[12:48:34] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: The servo motor itself sounds reasonably simple. I was looking at the servo drivers. I saw the gecko 320x and the imsrv ones. It appears they function like stepper drivers, but with encoder interfaces. But whats confusing is that it looks like the mesa cards read the encoders too. Is there a better way to driver directly using mesa daughter boards?
[12:49:49] <skunkworks> yes - conventional servo amps.. Then linuxcnc closes the pid loop
[12:50:32] <skunkworks> like amc or even mesa has servo amps
[12:50:54] <os1r1s> skunkworks: Can you point me to the mesa servo amps?
[12:51:20] <PetefromTn_> mesanet.com
[12:53:44] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: Like the 7i54?
[12:53:51] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you are asking
[12:54:37] <os1r1s> Would you plug the 7i54 into a 5i25 for example to interface to linuxcnc
[12:56:14] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you are building, personally on my machine I have the 5i25/7i77 combo and it works wonderfully. I am planning to use the same thing on the CNC lathe I am building now. these are more commercial machines
[13:02:07] <skunkworks> the 7i54 would requre a 5i20 or similar card with the 50 pin header
[13:02:48] <os1r1s> So the 7i77 would plug into what servo drivers?
[13:04:09] <archivist> depends what sort of motor you want to use
[13:04:24] <archivist> dc or bldc etc
[13:05:16] <os1r1s> I was looking at the ones imsrv or super-tech sell. Those are DC with HEDS encoders
[13:05:54] <os1r1s> 30V 2.x amp
[13:05:58] <archivist> h bridge can drive a dc motor
[13:09:36] <os1r1s> archivist: Do you have any recommendations on board that would work well with the 7i77 for example?
[13:10:01] <archivist> not used any mesa cards myself yet
[13:11:10] <cpresser> os1r1s: those should work:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-Type-Servo-Amplifier-B12A6L-/291505411201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43df139481
[13:12:57] <os1r1s> cpresser: Thanks for the example. I'll dig a bit.
[13:13:17] <archivist> that is a bldc motor drive not a DC
[13:14:00] <cpresser> archivist: true. i didnt look close enough
[13:14:30] <cpresser> os1r1s: this one is for brushed motors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-BRUSH-TYPE-PWM-SERVO-AMPLIFIER-MODEL-12A8M-/252018611909?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aad7ad6c5
[13:14:43] <archivist> 7I54 is a 6 channel h bridge 40v 3A which covers the motors probably
[13:14:53] <archivist> only need one :)
[13:15:28] <os1r1s> Something like these ...
http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/assemblymotorreducer.aspx
[13:15:32] <os1r1s> Motors ...
[13:17:23] <cpresser> os1r1s: i would recommend to check the encoders first
[13:17:41] <cpresser> the 7i77 can handle quadrature encoders
[13:21:09] <os1r1s> cpresser: It looks like 2 channel quadrature output
[13:21:17] <cpresser> sounds good
[13:23:44] <os1r1s> cpresser: Question is, could the HD-DB adapter interface the 5i25 to the 7i54
[13:26:10] <cpresser> you should ask pcw_home this question.
[13:27:10] <cpresser> but my guess would be no. its intended to be used the other way.
[13:27:29] <cpresser> worst case: you need to build some cables by yourself
[13:29:07] <os1r1s> cpresser: Right. Ok.
[13:54:08] <Jymmm> Yo fuzzy one in humbolt county
[13:56:00] <furrywolf> yes?
[13:56:09] <Jymmm> furrywolf: 60¢/W used. worth it ??
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/5109696264.html
[13:58:22] <furrywolf> seems decent
[13:58:48] <Jymmm> 12yo , that ok?
[13:58:56] <Jymmm> 13*
[13:59:19] <marmite_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/12zd9k29a13hxq0/Part1bas.jpg?dl=0 any ideas on how i can machine this out of aluminium ? mesurements are in mm
[13:59:48] <furrywolf> panels seem to last a long time. if they're badly yellowed, or have corrosion on the connections between the cells, skip them.
[14:00:21] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ok, I'll bring a DMM too
[14:00:47] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/pullstartnoise01.jpg http://fw.bushytails.net/pullstartnoise02.jpg one of the eu2000is I got ran, but made some pretty awful noises... plinks, clunks, thuds,.... I took it apart expecting to find the pullstart was crunched, since that's where the noises seemed to be coming from... but no, the problem is much simpler.
[14:01:37] <Jymmm> spark plug socket?
[14:02:03] <cradek> ha
[14:02:03] <furrywolf> yep
[14:02:20] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Nice, free tools as a bonus!!!
[14:02:41] <furrywolf> the teeth on the drive cup are a bit hammered from hitting the socket, but I decided they were good enough.
[14:03:47] <furrywolf> it's hard to see in the photo, but it's dug maybe 3/32 into the aluminum on the bottom
[14:04:48] <Jymmm> yeow, and on a somewhat thin mounting stud too
[14:05:13] <furrywolf> nah, it's pretty thick, and all it does is hold the pullstart.
[14:06:09] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Oh, I stopped by and looked at those 20¢/W panels.... I thought it was a crack or two, they are all completely shattered... a million cracks! No thanks.
[14:06:17] <furrywolf> Jymmm: I don't see any yellowing in the pictures, so internal corrosion is the only thing to watch out for.
[14:06:36] <furrywolf> Jymmm: remember when I said you didn't seem to be comprehending that the entire panel was in 1/4" squares?
[14:06:55] <furrywolf> now does what I was saying make more sense? :P
[14:06:58] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I didn't know they used tempered glass,
[14:08:39] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Yeah it does, I thought it was just window glass. No way in hell to stablize that in the least
[14:08:44] <furrywolf> if you buy those panels, try to get the guy to give you some of the racking at a good price while you're there.
[14:09:06] <furrywolf> Jymmm: very thinned automotive clearcoat, like I said... :P
[14:10:15] <Jymmm> furrywolf: They sell individual cells too, so I've seen how thing/brittle they are, I wouldn't even have bothered unless free.
[14:10:29] <Jymmm> furrywolf: ... AND had the clearcoat on hand already
[14:10:34] <furrywolf> I've had good luck with old panels, except for some Arco ones with internal corrosion.
[14:10:39] <furrywolf> ... yes, I was telling you these things.
[14:10:59] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Had you said tempered glass, I would have totally got it.
[14:11:23] <Jymmm> I was thinking one or two cracks,
[14:11:24] <Jymmm> =)
[14:11:40] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/arco01.jpg there's an example of one with some internal corrosion and some yellowing.
[14:11:48] <furrywolf> the yellowing isn't nearly as much of a problem as the corrosion.
[14:12:05] <Jymmm> This guy doens't list a city, probably smethign like Los Banos I bet.
[14:12:34] <Jymmm> what are the brown squares?
[14:12:43] <Jymmm> the yellowing?
[14:13:11] <furrywolf> yes
[14:13:12] <Jymmm> and the whitish stuff at the edges?
[14:13:16] <furrywolf> corrosion
[14:13:29] <Jymmm> both are corrosion?
[14:13:48] <furrywolf> no
[14:13:51] <Jymmm> the yellowing is so uniform
[14:13:55] <furrywolf> the yellowing is due to heat
[14:14:07] <furrywolf> the corrosion is due to moisture
[14:14:30] <furrywolf> Arco panels all had the fuck abused out of them, so when you find them, they're always yellowed. the corrosion is less common.
[14:14:45] <Jymmm> but what is it? The yellowing that is. mechanical seperation?
[14:15:12] <furrywolf> degredation of the plastic layer
[14:15:24] <furrywolf> those panels have a plastic instead of glass for greater durability...
[14:15:31] <Jymmm> AH, ok
[14:15:58] <Jymmm> Seems to strange, I could almost take a straight line to it
[14:16:42] <furrywolf> most Arco panels are from a power plant built in the early '80s in the carrizo desert, and baked in the hot sun for many years... I also have some that were probably used in one of their concentrating setups, that are so yellow it's hard to see the cells.
[14:18:00] <furrywolf> http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_solar_used.html his on the bottom of that page are worse than mine. :)
[14:18:04] <Jymmm> Top half, bottom row, third from the right... You can tell that cell was turned around when installed. I'm guess the was a wafer fab issue
[14:19:00] <furrywolf> I don't think I have pictures of my really bad ones... they were a small odd sized used in the concentrating arrays, and are very, very yellow. but, they put out around 2/3rds of their power still.
[14:19:21] <furrywolf> the ones in the picture I pasted put out around 1/3rd of their rated power, due to corrosion.
[14:19:30] <furrywolf> pissed me off, but at least I got them cheap.
[14:19:45] <furrywolf> ($20/panel)
[14:19:53] <Jymmm> the corrosion didn't show up till leter?
[14:20:23] <Jymmm> visiably show
[14:20:41] <furrywolf> they measure perfect for both short-circuit current and open-circuit voltage. I didn't know there was a problem until I got them all mounted and realized they weren't putting out crap for power.
[14:21:30] <Jymmm> Ah. what is "short circuit voltage"? I'm thinking literally shorted together
[14:21:53] <Jymmm> oh current , nm
[14:21:55] <furrywolf> I read an article on it a while ago... the corrosion shows up as increased series resistance. so the open-circuit voltage is fine, and the short-circuit current is also fine (the increased resistance not being enough to exceed the constant-current properties of the cells), but in the middle, the output measures crap.
[14:22:04] <furrywolf> short circuit voltage is zero volts, and not very useful. :P
[14:22:29] <furrywolf> short-circuit current is given on the sticker on the back of the panels, as is open-circuit voltage. note the current varries greatly with insolation, and the voltage greatly with temperature.
[14:23:38] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I use a server blower for load testing. man it can suck a batery dry in no time =)
[14:23:53] <Jymmm> 1.4 A in a 3" package
[14:24:13] <furrywolf> yes, and that's not very useful for testing a panel that'll out out 7A in the sun.
[14:24:23] <furrywolf> it'll make sure it's not obviously toasted, of course.
[14:24:30] <Jymmm> and then listen to the whine as things change =)
[14:24:47] <Jymmm> I have 8 of them =)
[14:24:53] <furrywolf> also, make sure it likes running on 20V. :P
[14:25:23] <furrywolf> if you plan on doing solar panel testing, at least RTFM enough to know what the voltage-current curve looks like, how mppt works, etc.
[14:25:29] <Jymmm> the blowers, oh yeah, they do, and were free so I dont care
[14:26:14] <furrywolf> bbl, need to try running some errands... I haven't been shopping in two weeks care of my back...
[14:26:37] <Jymmm> What does MTTP have to do with testing raw panels?
[14:26:40] <Jymmm> okey dokey
[14:27:01] <Jymmm> I'm RTFM already =)
[14:28:16] <furrywolf> you're not going to usefully measure the maximum power unless you balance your test load on the maximum power point. :P
[14:28:17] <furrywolf> bbl
[14:31:10] <SpeedEvil> Maximum peak power is simply calcuable to open-circuit voltage and short current
[14:31:38] <SpeedEvil> you just multiply those two, and then take off about 8%, and you've got the max power point.
[14:32:29] <Jymmm> Ok, what is "short circuit current? Just under some load?
[14:32:50] <SpeedEvil> that is the current you get when you put a DMM on amps amps and measure the current
[14:32:52] <SpeedEvil> At ~0V
[14:33:47] <Jymmm> Just short the panel out?
[14:34:06] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:34:20] <SpeedEvil> It does no harm as long as it's not shaded, or there are internal protection diodes
[14:35:28] <Jymmm> so basically just hook up an ampmeter to the panel = short circuit current
[14:35:39] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:35:52] <Jymmm> I can do that =)
[14:35:56] <SpeedEvil> Or you can just assume 14% efficiency, and divide by voltage
[14:36:54] <Jymmm> ... full sun.
[14:37:54] <Jymmm> If I can get 140W out of two 100W panels, I'd be happy.
[14:38:14] <Jymmm> peak, 110W nominal.
[14:40:05] <Jymmm> I need a bunch of DPDT switches, and I have a bag of SPST brand new. *sigh*
[14:41:39] <SolarNRG> hi everybody
[14:41:54] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, glue them together
[14:41:56] <SolarNRG> can someone please explain to me the difference between a vacuum pump and a centrifugal pump?
[14:43:50] <Tom_itx> http://empoweringpumps.com/differences-centrifugal-pumps-vs-positive-displacement-pumps/
[14:44:35] <SolarNRG> i got a cm2-40 some dude sold me on the cheap i wanna know if it can suck air out of a cylinder for my delrin gear casting in the microwave
[14:44:53] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: Err - why wouldn't you get 200W out of 2*100W panels?
[14:45:10] <SolarNRG> oxygen's a pain in the ass when dealing with plastics at hi temp I wanna make a partial vacuum the dude said it was a vacuum pump but now I'm thinking its a water pump and I got had
[14:45:27] <SpeedEvil> centrifugal pumps will in general not work
[14:45:34] <SpeedEvil> For most reasonable definitions.
[14:45:43] <SpeedEvil> Vacuum cleaners are centrifugal pumps too
[14:45:58] <SpeedEvil> use an inert gas to purge
[14:46:04] <SolarNRG> so even if I rigged up the vacuum cleaner to the nukebox it still wouldn't work
[14:46:31] <PCW> yes there are vacuum pumps that are not positive displacement (High vacuum also like Turbo molecular pumps)
[14:46:52] <SolarNRG> what sort of shop would sell what I need?
[14:47:01] <Tom_itx> wonder where screw drive pumps would fall as far as classification
[14:47:19] <SolarNRG> I mean I've seen ppl modify fridge compressors to do what I want
[14:47:19] <SpeedEvil> You can't evacuate a microwave oven, it will collapse
[14:47:25] <PCW> but you need a positive displacement pump (or a water aspirator if you dont mind wasting water)
[14:47:49] <SolarNRG> no I'm evacuating the nukebox within the microwave I have the door OFF and I'm turingin it on inside a metal shed I'm not in when I remotely activate the switch in the kitchen
[14:48:08] <SolarNRG> I got the door stopper stuck in the hole so it'll still go on
[14:48:16] <SolarNRG> you REALLY don't wanna be around this thing when it's on
[14:48:45] <SolarNRG> I'm a long way from broomhandle
[14:49:17] <SolarNRG> also air tends to get into delrin and it makes it weaker
[14:49:24] <SolarNRG> so I want ALL gases out of the nukebox
[14:49:57] <Tom_itx> hope the box doesn't collapse under a vaccuum
[14:50:08] <SolarNRG> its 2 inch thick ceramic, no it wont'
[14:50:14] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[14:50:47] <PCW> A refrigerator pump will work but they get oil everywhere (and I hesitate to give any advice to someone running microwave over with the door off)
[14:50:48] <SolarNRG> this ceramic is microwave permeable yet infrared insulative
[14:51:18] <SolarNRG> I tend to have sensitive equipment OUTSIDE the shed and channel things under the shed via the hole underneath with ceramic blocks shielding what I need to
[14:51:27] <SolarNRG> Tried a webcam in there but it died after a few tests
[14:51:32] <SolarNRG> so I'm now doign it blind,
[14:54:06] <PCW> get too close and you _will_ be doing it blind
[14:54:21] <SolarNRG> PCW, LOL no $#!T
[14:54:44] <SolarNRG> This microwave you WOULD NOT have in your kitchen put it that way
[14:57:15] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: the door off makes it suck to heat things
[14:57:57] <Rab> SolarNRG, there's a very common old car AC compressor that has a separate oiling system and can also work as a vacuum pump:
http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/yorkair.html
[14:58:08] <PetefromTn_> Well I THINK I have got the overall surface area of these parts I need to machine at .127 sq ft.
[14:58:12] <SolarNRG> SpeedEvil, well there's like a 60mm hole in the door, not completely off
[14:58:30] <SolarNRG> but yeah I appreciate what you're saying, it's still taken me a good hour and a half just to reach like 500 degrees
[14:58:34] <Rab> I've owned a bunch of old Volvos with the York compressors, still have one I pulled out somewhere around here.
[14:58:58] <PetefromTn_> so now I am trying to use an online calculator to determine how much amperage and voltage to put into them in the anodizing bath
[14:59:04] <SpeedEvil> I need to do a build and writeup on micro-kilns
[14:59:08] <SolarNRG> Is there any way I can convert this centrifugal pump into a vacuum pump, how hard would it be?
[14:59:14] <PetefromTn_> Oops sorry .1755 sq ft.
[14:59:49] <Rab> SolarNRG, a centrifugal pump doesn't have a positive seal so it can't hold vacuum.
[15:00:04] <PetefromTn_> http://ndhsubmersiblescience.com/ano/720rule.html using this calculator but not sure of some of the parameters
[15:00:09] <Rab> You can generate suction, but only while the pump is active.
[15:01:03] <SpeedEvil> Rab: Fun fact. Big jet engines get ~15:1 compression
[15:01:42] <Rab> SpeedEvil, that's what I get for making an absolute claim.
[15:02:11] <Rab> But if the engine stops, I don't think it will hold any pressure.
[15:04:10] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
[15:04:49] <SpeedEvil> I guess you could make a 'turbine' vacuum pump to go all teh way to atmosphere. It'd be stupidly inefficient at small scales
[15:05:56] <SolarNRG> rab can I not just disassemble it and reverse the seal?
[15:06:12] <SpeedEvil> There is no seal
[15:06:13] <SolarNRG> that seems to be the main theme on all these diy youtube vis
[15:06:29] <SpeedEvil> - on centrifugal pumps
[15:06:46] <SolarNRG> bicycle pump with valve removed and a really really long hose?
[15:06:55] <Rab> SpeedEvil, it's essentially just a fan.
[15:07:05] <SolarNRG> so's a vacuum cleaner
[15:07:05] <SpeedEvil> Rab: Sure.
[15:07:11] <SolarNRG> that's essentially a glorified fan
[15:07:16] <Rab> Er, meant for SolarNRG.
[15:07:20] <SpeedEvil> ah
[15:07:57] <XXCoder> nothing preventing someone from adding one way air valve
[15:08:13] <SolarNRG> xxcoder, go on?
[15:08:21] <Rab> Duck-bill valve?
[15:08:25] <SolarNRG> like on a bicycle innertube?
[15:08:54] <XXCoder> not engineer but it seems easy enough to add it
[15:08:55] <Rab> http://www.minivalve.com/newsite/index.php/en/by-type/duckbill-valves/how-they-work
[15:09:01] <XXCoder> im sure people here can figure it out
[15:09:32] <Rab> Cheap and widely available, seems like they're mostly intended for fluids.
[15:10:03] <SolarNRG> i'm dealing with gases here, fluids are what I wanna keed, i.e. super hot plastic
[15:10:10] <SolarNRG> *keep
[15:10:52] <Rab> These are the grossest images I've seen on the internet today:
http://www.tideflex.com/tf/
[15:11:15] <XXCoder> example
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14977156670709795018 possibly will work
[15:12:11] <SolarNRG> so you're telling me I have two of those on the centrifuge pump in the correct way it'll act like a vacuum pump, right?
[15:12:24] <Rab> I think that valve would present too much restriction.
[15:13:01] <tiwake> SolarNRG: did you see the NRG video?
[15:13:01] <XXCoder> yea thats why I said example, I dont know what he needs enough to find specific one
[15:13:06] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Isn't that where the efficiency rating comes into play?
[15:13:23] <tiwake> SolarNRG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRMziW4922g
[15:13:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Thanks, why didn't I think of that! ;)
[15:19:52] <SolarNRG> tiwake, no I haven;t but I'm glad I have now, I've been using this handle for the best part of a decade actually, I was trying to be kewel
[15:21:57] <tiwake> SolarNRG: lol
[15:22:09] <tiwake> SolarNRG: there is a PMV version of it too
[15:22:22] <tiwake> SolarNRG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugfCkqXdBok
[15:22:42] <tiwake> its cool in my book :)
[15:22:43] <SolarNRG> seems like a pi$$ take of all those kidz energy drinks like monster, kool aid, mountain dew and all the diabetes inducing narcotics they push
[15:26:20] <SolarNRG> Gosh this kitten I rescued out of my metal pipes pile has grown quickly
[15:26:50] <SolarNRG> What that poor kitten was doing there in the first place I have no idea, but we washed her up and fed her and looked after her now she's a member of the NRG family :)
[15:27:02] <SolarNRG> my daughter loves teasing her unfortunately
[15:43:32] <SolarNRG> watching night at the musem thanx 4 ur help guys!
[15:43:33] <SolarNRG> l8rs
[15:59:19] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/gallery/2imo828xk/06a32fe1/ casting pattern almost directly out of the machine, should have made the dowel holes in the machine tho as i got it like 0.1 - 0.2mm off when i drilled the holes =)
[15:59:53] <MrSunshine> i frekkin love my cnc and cant think of how i managed life without it before =)
[16:01:22] <XXCoder> :)
[16:01:46] <XXCoder> your outside looks rainty
[16:01:50] <XXCoder> rainy
[16:02:57] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: 22:00 just about there
[16:03:32] <XXCoder> 10 pm hmm ok
[16:03:47] <MrSunshine> slap some paint on those badboys and get them slick tomorrow maybe and im ready to cast, got a perfect shakeout of a couple of cores also =)
[16:04:02] <PetefromTn_> what are they?
[16:04:16] <MrSunshine> aparently very important how mush water glass there is in it to bind together but not bind to the form =)
[16:04:29] <MrSunshine> PetefromTn_: 3 way compressed air cooling for the cnc router =)
[16:04:33] <MrSunshine> casting pattern
[16:04:48] <XXCoder> link that other one, for inside core
[16:05:47] <PetefromTn_> cool
[16:08:49] <MrSunshine> http://postimg.org/gallery/3gq0yjlnk/d5fbb77c/ core pattern and how the core sits in the casting pattern =)
[16:09:22] <XXCoder> I see you repaired it now
[16:09:35] <XXCoder> nice :) well gonna go later
[16:10:10] <MrSunshine> yeah made glue from water glass and zink oxide ... very sticky stuff =)
[16:10:21] <MrSunshine> its like it was solid even tho i had like 10 breaks in it before i was done :P
[16:22:59] <JT-STL> What's up
[16:26:31] <Deejay> gn8
[16:43:06] * furrywolf sits down with CHEESECAKE
[17:06:18] <SpeedEvil> I am enjoying a bananna and coffee
[17:49:55] <furrywolf> meh! I washed the grease out of the generator with the socket in the pullstart, and now it has no spark. which is odd, these units are usually completely waterproof. must have a bad plug seal or something...
[17:49:59] <furrywolf> got it in the sun drying now
[17:53:43] <furrywolf> as a note, I've included ALL eu2000is are filled with grease. the way they're built, there pretty much isn't any way to do an oil change without spilling half the used oil inside the unit, where it puddles and coats everything, and gets blown by the cooling fan all over everything...
[17:53:49] <furrywolf> s/included/concluded
[17:56:24] <furrywolf> if it doesn't develop spark in a couple hours I'll start actually caring.
[18:03:25] <Jymmm> furrywolf: solution
[18:03:37] <toastydeath> solution? ether. solution of ether. FIRE. fire on all the things.
[18:04:02] <Jymmm> furrywolf: I LOVE this thing...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-EU1000i-EU2000i-GENERATOR-NO-MESS-OIL-CHANGE-/230564791455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35aebb849f
[18:04:29] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It even snaps in the left side for storageif you like
[18:05:06] <Jymmm> furrywolf: zero mess
[18:05:44] <Jymmm> furrywolf: maybe you could drill our a spare oil cap and add a tube/spout to it
[18:10:47] <Tom_itx> i put a hose on my oil drain instead of a tube that could get knocked off
[18:25:11] <malcom2073> furrywolf: Do you have a link to that honda generator oil change tube?
[18:26:40] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-EU1000i-EU2000i-GENERATOR-NO-MESS-OIL-CHANGE-/230564791455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35aebb849f
[18:26:42] <Tom_itx> that one?
[18:27:28] <malcom2073> Ah yeah that one
[18:27:44] <malcom2073> Thanks
[18:48:58] <furrywolf> yes, I know about them. but from what I can tell looking at these generators, no one else does.
[18:49:08] <furrywolf> they're ALL full of used motor oil + dirt sludge.
[18:49:11] <furrywolf> centered around the drain
[18:52:27] <malcom2073> Turns out my motor doesn't have the same threads anyway
[18:52:57] <malcom2073> but good news is: mine is 3/8 NPT, so I can get a fitting easily
[18:55:25] <furrywolf> "IF YOUR GENERATOR HAS BEEN RUNNING - TURN IT OFF - LET IT COOL FOR 30 MINUTES" where's the fun in that? I have the melted oil containers to prove that step is optional. :P
[18:59:01] <malcom2073> "If the oil is not boiling, it's not hot enough to do any damage, right"?
[19:02:29] <Tom_itx> i've run machines that the cutting oil temp was around 120+ F
[19:02:52] <Tom_itx> well below boiling but plenty hot to the skin
[19:03:05] <furrywolf> small engines run hot... if you put it in a plastic drink bottle like that auction shows, it promptly melts the bottle.
[19:03:08] <malcom2073> Heh, what temp do air cooled generators typically run at?
[19:03:25] <furrywolf> I have melted multiple drink bottles doing exactly that. :)
[19:04:24] <malcom2073> Heh, I use an oil pan for mine, since it makes such a huge mess, since it drains out over the metal mounting plate
[19:04:37] <malcom2073> and drips off evenly over about a 16"x16" area
[19:05:01] <furrywolf> now imagine a fully enclosed generator, where all that mess runs inside the housing... and you have a honda.
[19:05:06] <malcom2073> Heh
[19:05:11] <malcom2073> Yeah
[19:06:10] <tiwake> malcom2073: depends? radial engines for an airplane often run at like 300F or more
[19:06:18] <malcom2073> tiwake: riding lawnmower engines
[19:06:46] <tiwake> below boiling then
[19:06:50] <tiwake> but it depends
[19:07:31] <tiwake> radial engines often have the bottom sparkplug pulled so the oil can drip out, because when it is cooled down the piston is a lot smaller than the cylinder
[19:07:47] <tiwake> compared to most other engines
[19:08:10] <malcom2073> I've heard that about them, the piston eing so much smaller until warm up
[19:08:42] <tiwake> donno about small engines, 5-30hp
[19:09:05] <malcom2073> Yeah this one is a 26hp, I should point a flir at it someday
[19:10:00] <tiwake> liquid cooled engines are typically just under boiling... I wouldent be surprised if it was 250-300F
[19:10:39] <tiwake> I think radial engines are typically closer to 500F
[19:11:17] <tiwake> you could pour water on it and see if it instantly boils off :)
[19:11:26] <furrywolf> 500F is really hot. I doubt that.
[19:13:44] <tiwake> 300C is what I'm reading...
[19:14:19] <tiwake> so yeah, ~500F
[19:14:31] <JT-STL> What's up
[19:14:59] <tiwake> JT-STL: the operating temp of a radial engine
[19:16:01] <JT-STL> That's pretty hot
[19:16:24] <tiwake> it is, yeah
[19:17:28] <furrywolf> so far I've found one forum post saying 250-300C, and nothing else.
[19:18:06] <JT-STL> Ssi should know
[19:18:15] <tiwake> thats what I heard from a friend who knows
[19:25:55] <furkanyilmaz11> Hi all, I cant increasing my g-code speed, its fast in jog mode but not fast when working g-codes. Any suggest?
[19:28:06] <Tom_itx> what's your max jog feedrate?
[19:28:16] <Tom_itx> and is it actually that feed?
[19:28:21] <Tom_itx> your scales could be off
[19:29:37] <JT-STL> could be acceleration too low
[19:29:52] <Tom_itx> what's the STL for?
[19:30:05] <malcom2073> Oh youtube... you rabbit hole you.
[19:30:06] <furkanyilmaz11> Accelaration is enough as I see in jog mode. The accel values are same for jog and g-codes right?
[19:30:18] <malcom2073> I youtubed radial engines. Mistake
[19:30:54] <tiwake> lol
[19:31:37] <furkanyilmaz11> And for example in jog mode machine looking like moving around 10000 mm/min. But in g00 mode machine is looking like moving 1000 mm/min
[19:31:41] <Jymmm> That's it... escrow is closed!!
[19:32:06] <JT-STL> St Louis
[19:32:28] <Jymmm> Seattle
[19:32:28] <furkanyilmaz11> Same in g01 mode. So I can setting speed percent to max
[19:32:38] <furkanyilmaz11> and I am entering very high f value
[19:32:50] <furkanyilmaz11> but max g01 speed is same as g00 speed
[19:33:01] <furkanyilmaz11> And slower than jog max speed
[19:33:06] <furkanyilmaz11> Why?
[19:33:16] <Jymmm> JT-STL: Oh, I thuoght STL was seatle for some reason
[19:33:51] <Jymmm> Seattle WA = SEA
[19:34:03] <Jymmm> Seattle/Tacoma WA = SEA
[19:34:25] <JT-STL> Be in SEA tomorrow
[19:34:43] <Jymmm> JT-STL: Wow, vacation?
[19:34:56] <Jymmm> JT-STL: riding?
[19:35:34] <Jymmm> I saw a MC pulling a teardrop the other day, that was pretty cool
[19:36:15] <furrywolf> yay, dried out all the cabling, generator runs again.
[19:37:16] <furrywolf> also, the insulation on the plug cap is bad.
[19:37:22] * furrywolf waves paw in air frustratedly
[19:37:28] <JT-STL> Dang tiny tablet
[19:40:18] <JT-STL> I forgot who was asking about speeds
[19:40:27] <Tom_itx> furkanyilmaz11 was
[19:40:33] <Tom_itx> zlog
[19:40:46] <furkanyilmaz11> Yes I was
[19:41:27] <furkanyilmaz11> I tried to increase all speed parameters in .ini file but same
[19:41:36] <furrywolf> now to put the rest of the generator all back together...
[19:41:37] <JT-STL> G0 on one axis should go as fast as max speed if the move is long enough
[19:42:08] <furkanyilmaz11> I know but it isnt moving fast
[19:42:11] <Tom_itx> furkanyilmaz11 make sure when you move an inch it moves an inch
[19:42:15] <furkanyilmaz11> Distance is enough
[19:42:30] <JT-STL> Forgot about zlog too
[19:42:31] <Tom_itx> if your scale is off your feed will be too
[19:42:42] <furkanyilmaz11> How can I check it?
[19:42:58] <Tom_itx> G1 X1 F30
[19:43:22] <Tom_itx> G1 Y1
[19:43:22] <JT-STL> I think he is mm
[19:43:33] <Tom_itx> well change the units then
[19:43:36] <furkanyilmaz11> I am using the example code from linuxcnc's example g-code folder
[19:43:41] <furkanyilmaz11> spiral code
[19:43:47] <furkanyilmaz11> And I edit the f value
[19:44:08] <Tom_itx> it could be short linear moves are slowing it down
[19:44:12] <Tom_itx> what lcnc ver?
[19:44:23] <furkanyilmaz11> 2.6.8
[19:44:32] <JT-STL> Spiral is a bunch of short moves so acceleration is important
[19:45:18] <furkanyilmaz11> my axis velocity is 200 and accel is 750
[19:45:25] <JT-STL> Max acceleration is typically 10-20 times max speed
[19:45:42] <furrywolf> you know, I've heard a lot of "stupidly slow moves" complaints about 2.6.8 in the last few weeks. is there some bug?
[19:45:56] <furkanyilmaz11> SO should I set the accel to 4k?
[19:46:10] <furkanyilmaz11> I dont want to break something are you sure?
[19:46:31] <JT-STL> If your machine can do that
[19:46:46] <furrywolf> I think it was either yesterday or the day before someone was complaining that the trajectory planner went stupidly slow almost exact-stopping between short moves no matter what G64 P was set to.
[19:47:03] <JT-STL> stepper or servo
[19:47:18] <furkanyilmaz11> servo but open loop between pc and drive
[19:47:31] <furkanyilmaz11> So there are no connection to pc about enc data
[19:47:40] <furkanyilmaz11> Just driver knows encoder data
[19:48:19] <furrywolf> I think the conclusion reached the other day was try 2.7 and see if the problem goes away...
[19:48:42] <JT-STL> will the driver fault for following error
[19:50:48] <JT-STL> Is your max speed within the max rpm of the servo and drive
[19:52:05] <JT-STL> 2.7 does better on nurbs and short moves
[19:52:39] <furkanyilmaz11> I tried to increase accel
[19:52:51] <furkanyilmaz11> I increased it to 2k from 750
[19:52:54] <furkanyilmaz11> but same
[19:53:01] <furkanyilmaz11> so not fast as jog
[19:53:06] <furkanyilmaz11> I tried it with mdi
[19:53:20] <furkanyilmaz11> To understand is it about spiral g-code
[19:53:25] <furkanyilmaz11> So its same
[19:53:33] <furkanyilmaz11> Jog mode is so much faster
[19:53:44] <furkanyilmaz11> And its a robotic project
[19:54:01] <Tom_itx> what do linear moves do?
[19:54:02] <furrywolf> have you tried writing your own simple g-code to move in a long straight line?
[19:54:06] <Tom_itx> as expected or slow?
[19:54:09] <furkanyilmaz11> Installing a completely new version of linuxcnc will not be easy for me
[19:54:10] <JT-STL> do a G0 X some long move
[19:54:21] <furkanyilmaz11> Yes I tried
[19:54:31] <furkanyilmaz11> Same as spiral g-code
[19:54:40] <furkanyilmaz11> G0 is little more faster
[19:54:47] <furkanyilmaz11> but not same as jog
[19:54:57] <furrywolf> so your position loop is being closed by your servo drives?
[19:55:05] <furkanyilmaz11> no
[19:55:13] <furkanyilmaz11> There are just pulse and dir
[19:55:19] <furkanyilmaz11> From pc to servo drive
[19:55:36] <furrywolf> right. so your position loop is being closed by your servo drive.
[19:55:45] <JT-STL> Software pulse?
[19:56:02] <furkanyilmaz11> Yes between motor and servodrive is close loop
[19:56:08] <furkanyilmaz11> software pulse?
[19:56:36] <furrywolf> do your drives have any settings that influence operation? did you tune them?
[19:56:44] <furkanyilmaz11> sure
[19:56:46] <furkanyilmaz11> I did
[19:57:02] <furkanyilmaz11> As I said in jog mode its fast
[19:57:09] <JT-STL> Parallel port
[19:57:12] <furkanyilmaz11> So that means everything well
[19:57:13] <furkanyilmaz11> Yes
[19:57:24] <furkanyilmaz11> But in g-code mode the problem is starting
[19:58:32] <furrywolf> so somewhere you have your max feedrate set lower than your max jog rate... I didn't know those two were separate, so can't help there.
[19:59:20] <furkanyilmaz11> In my ini file the max feed and max velocity value is same
[19:59:24] <furkanyilmaz11> Ok
[20:00:36] <JT-STL> You might start a topic on the forum or mailing list and attach your configuration files
[20:01:15] <furkanyilmaz11> Ok
[20:01:40] <JT-STL> furk how did you get your configuration
[20:01:50] <furkanyilmaz11> Is it possible to there is a value for feed override percentage's max value
[20:02:04] <furkanyilmaz11> I am setting from ini file
[20:02:15] <furkanyilmaz11> I created
[20:02:38] <JT-STL> From scratch
[20:02:50] <furkanyilmaz11> What scratch means?
[20:03:31] <JT-STL> You create from start everything
[20:04:20] <furkanyilmaz11> I created standart stepconf
[20:04:30] <furkanyilmaz11> And I add my kinematic configurations
[20:05:26] <JT-STL> You're using something other than trivkins?
[20:06:07] <furkanyilmaz11> I cant remember :(
[20:06:16] <furkanyilmaz11> 1 month happened
[20:06:17] <furrywolf> ...
[20:07:13] <JT-STL> If you changed kins that could be the issue
[20:07:33] <furkanyilmaz11> No I didnt change the kinematic file
[20:07:48] <furkanyilmaz11> I just set up the distances of arm from hal file
[20:08:08] <furkanyilmaz11> And I set the other parameters from .ini file
[20:08:34] <JT-STL> This is not a typical cnc machine?
[20:08:50] <furkanyilmaz11> Its delta robot
[20:09:36] <JT-STL> Oh then you're not using trivkins
[20:11:12] <furkanyilmaz11> Probably as I remember I installed everything like a standart cnc machine in stepconf wizard. After I tested motors is working. I installed the kinematic files. And I test it again. Right now kinematic file is working well. So my delta is following the spiral and g-code
[20:11:21] <furkanyilmaz11> But I cant increasing the speed
[20:11:25] <furkanyilmaz11> As I want
[20:11:27] <JT-STL> Zlog
[20:11:34] <furkanyilmaz11> Zlog?
[20:11:42] <Tom_itx> zlog
[20:11:46] <JT-STL> zlog
[20:12:16] <furrywolf> zillog! :P
[20:12:36] <furrywolf> zilog
[20:12:54] <furrywolf> meh, been too long since I've looked at a z80. :)
[20:13:36] <furkanyilmaz11> why did you took the log file?
[20:13:58] <JT-STL> Lost connection
[20:14:09] <Tom_itx> someone in an unmentioned channel (#reprap) kept bitching about autocomplete interferring with the bot so i went with Z on the bot to shut them up
[20:14:43] <JT-STL> My guess is your kinematic file is the issue
[20:14:46] <Tom_itx> they're sure a touchy bunch
[20:15:00] <JT-STL> lol
[20:15:00] <furkanyilmaz11> But kinematic file working in jog mode well
[20:15:14] <furkanyilmaz11> And fast
[20:15:39] <JT-STL> And not working in g0
[20:15:47] <furkanyilmaz11> I am so close to get crazy. So that means I am so close to answer :)
[20:15:56] <furkanyilmaz11> Yes
[20:16:39] <furkanyilmaz11> Its working in g0 but not fast
[20:17:03] <JT-STL> mailing list or forum with all related files
[20:17:40] <furkanyilmaz11> Ok I will
[20:18:23] <JT-STL> This is too complicated for the irc chat
[20:19:12] <furkanyilmaz11> I think this community need a whatsapp group
[20:19:15] <furkanyilmaz11> :)
[20:19:59] <furrywolf> whatsapp?
[20:20:30] <JT-STL> We have 3 communication channels now
[20:20:40] <furkanyilmaz11> What are they?
[20:21:00] <skunkworks> you might want to try the 2.7 trajectory planner...
[20:21:25] <JT-STL> linuxcnc.org
[20:22:15] <JT-STL> 2.7 works way better on my plasma
[20:22:42] <furkanyilmaz11> What are you using for plasma's thc?
[20:22:48] <JT-STL> actually way way way better
[20:23:00] <furrywolf> I wish the guy with the plasma table would ANSWER, speaking of plasma. why the fuck do people post something then not answer when you try buying it?
[20:23:06] <furkanyilmaz11> Is it standalone?
[20:23:13] <JT-STL> Mesa thcad card
[20:23:16] <malcom2073> furrywolf: because they hate you
[20:23:28] <furrywolf> quite possible.
[20:23:31] <skunkworks> do you get the same performace in sim? (with no kins)?
[20:24:33] <furkanyilmaz11> Is that mesa system allowing you to enter arc voltages pierce delay etc from linuxcnc gui?
[20:25:00] <furkanyilmaz11> Could you share your screens with us? I am using mach3 for plasma machines
[20:27:04] <JT-STL> The thc component takes
[20:27:29] <JT-STL> voltage
[20:27:31] <furrywolf> I have a simple transformer plasma cutter. the only control is a two-position tap switch. I don't get to enter arc voltages etc. :P
[20:27:54] <JT-STL> gnipsel.com
[20:28:49] <furkanyilmaz11> JT-STL good blog
[20:28:59] <JT-STL> Look in the www.google.com/search?q=angdroid+solitare&oq=angdroid+solitare&client=chrome-mobile&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8
[20:29:08] <JT-STL> Wtf
[20:29:45] <furkanyilmaz11> android solitare? What?
[20:29:56] <JT-STL> Yea
[20:30:15] <JT-STL> Brb
[20:33:07] <jtstl> zlog
[20:33:38] <furkanyilmaz11> zlog
[20:34:23] <jtstl> lol my irc software went zonky
[20:37:21] <jtstl> anyway i use a subroutine to touch off and fire the torch
[20:37:58] <tiwake> debating if I want to cut this today or not
[20:38:04] <tiwake> I really should...
[20:39:14] <jtstl> I pass the pierce height delay and cut height
[20:51:13] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: Do you think using a mesa 6i25 connection to a g540 and a normal parallel port for other inputs/outputs is problematic?
[20:52:20] <jtstl> G540's seem to be probematic
[20:53:38] <os1r1s> jtstl: I have a G540 being driven by a parallel port now with linuxcnc. I would expect the mesa card to drive it better. I'm just not sure if there would be a timing problem by splitting things like an index sensor (or probe) out to a normal parallel port.
[20:54:15] * jtstl wonders what I'm touching to disconnect
[20:55:21] <jtstl> hardware step generation is always faster
[20:56:57] <os1r1s> jtstl: I would still have homing switches and all motion on the mesa. Its just other inputs like probing or index that I'd like to move. Or tool change control.
[20:57:10] <jtstl> It would be no slower
[20:57:46] <jtstl> Index on a stepper?
[20:58:02] <os1r1s> jtstl: Index as in a spindle rpm sensor
[20:58:21] <jtstl> Ah ok
[20:59:23] <os1r1s> The jitter on this machine is low, but I wouldn't expect it to matter with hardware stepgen.
[20:59:42] <jtstl> It would not be slower than now
[21:00:50] <jtstl> Hardware step gen will be faster
[21:04:37] <jtstl> Say goodnight Gracy
[21:06:28] <Tom_itx> have a good trip
[21:08:47] <jtstl> Thanks salt lake then seattle then anchorage a long day for sure
[21:09:21] <jtstl> Last stop eagle river
[21:09:34] <Tom_itx> via canoe?
[21:09:47] <jtstl> Impala
[21:09:51] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:11:31] <jtstl> I'd bet everything has changed in the last 47 years since the last time i was there
[21:11:49] <Tom_itx> i'm sure
[21:12:53] <jtstl> My sister found the last house we lived in last time she went
[21:13:37] <jtstl> Chat tomorrow
[21:13:54] <Tom_itx> later
[21:20:13] <Jymmm> furrywolf: You see the oil filler/drianer tube thingy?
[22:16:47] <furrywolf> Jymmm: yes, and I replied.
[22:17:00] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> yes, I know about them. but from what I can tell looking at these generators, no one else does.
[22:17:00] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> they're ALL full of used motor oil + dirt sludge.
[22:30:22] <zeeshan> :D
[22:31:52] * furrywolf doesn't see what zee is smiling about, so assumes he's crazy
[22:32:14] <zeeshan> i am looking at mineral deposites
[22:32:17] <zeeshan> deposits
[22:33:35] <furrywolf> of what variety? that could be anything from the stains in your bathtub to a kimberlite dig in africa...
[22:33:40] <zeeshan> gold
[22:33:43] <zeeshan> i got a map from the gov
[22:33:48] <zeeshan> showing mineral deposits
[22:33:52] <zeeshan> its a kml file for google earth
[22:33:57] <furrywolf> lol
[22:34:02] <zeeshan> i wanna prospect areas close by
[22:34:04] <zeeshan> that are crown land
[22:35:49] <furrywolf> probably need some kind of permission to do that
[22:35:57] <zeeshan> no
[22:36:10] <furrywolf> although I have no idea how such things work in any country still defective enough to have a crown...
[22:36:16] <zeeshan> there is a license
[22:38:28] <Jymmm> 90% of everything you find is the license fee
[22:38:45] <zeeshan> cool story
[22:38:46] <zeeshan> :D
[22:40:24] <Jymmm> furrywolf: It's dumb that honda didn't include even a plastic version of the oil drain/fill tube, but can include a spark plug wrench
[22:42:20] <zeeshan> 25.50
[22:42:21] <zeeshan> is the license fee
[22:42:22] <zeeshan> lol
[22:43:49] <furrywolf> aren't you supposed to be doing something useful, like a plot showing burst pressure of shape memory polymers vs temperature? :P
[22:43:59] <zeeshan> F that
[22:44:03] <zeeshan> ill do that tomorrow
[22:44:09] <zeeshan> today is chill easy day
[22:44:22] <furrywolf> today is over in about an hour.
[22:50:25] <zeeshan> i have a lot of tests to do :(
[22:50:29] <zeeshan> they will take a while
[22:51:09] <zeeshan> i gotta ramp to different stress levels
[22:51:12] <zeeshan> to find the creep compliance
[22:51:28] <zeeshan> so i can find out if im working with a linear or nonlinear viscoelastic material
[22:51:30] <furrywolf> you need to put the squares on pallets and build a pallet changer into your test rig, then come back and check on it every week or so.
[22:51:47] <zeeshan> i gotta do some fun experiments
[22:51:50] <zeeshan> where i blow up the films
[22:51:56] <zeeshan> to find their stress vs strain curve
[22:52:08] <furrywolf> vs temperature. :P
[22:52:16] <zeeshan> yea, after i get decent reeuslts
[22:52:19] <zeeshan> then its vs temperature!
[22:52:29] <zeeshan> then i have 3 types of smp films, so i gotta repeat it all
[22:52:52] <furrywolf> and then... if it doesn't explode at a certain temperature and pressure, does it explode when you then raise the temperature, holding the pressure constant? :P
[22:53:11] <zeeshan> once you find if its linear or non linear
[22:53:18] <zeeshan> you can use a model to predict that
[22:53:38] <zeeshan> cause you'd have to hold the material at constant pressure for a very long time
[22:53:47] <zeeshan> like i will do that at some point
[22:53:54] <zeeshan> hold it at constant pressure and see if the creep saturates
[22:54:07] <zeeshan> (which it should since this is a viscoelastic solid , not viscoelastic fluid)
[22:54:25] <zeeshan> after i get all these basic properties
[22:54:30] <zeeshan> only then can i confidently thermocycle
[22:56:23] <renesis> 03:27 < zeeshan> i have a lot of tests to do :(
[22:56:34] <renesis> you should be like \o/ not like :(
[22:56:54] <furrywolf> what the hell is \o/?
[22:57:02] <renesis> happy person
[22:57:23] <furrywolf> happy person is :)
[22:57:54] <renesis> http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/801271/801271,1313581546,1/stock-photo-happy-young-woman-with-raised-arms-against-blue-sky-82970692.jpg
[22:58:17] <renesis> i dont like happy faces with dots, pro happy face has vert lines
[22:58:21] <renesis> like =)
[22:58:54] <furrywolf> are you a cat?
[22:59:18] <renesis> go do research
[22:59:46] <renesis> dot happy faces look weird, because standard happy face eyes are taller than wide
[22:59:56] <furrywolf> because cats generally have vertical slits for irises...
[23:01:02] <renesis> well then standard happy face is a cat, shrug
[23:02:02] <renesis> http://images.clipartpanda.com/straight-face-clipart-black-and-white-smiley-face-hi.png
[23:02:05] <renesis> weird
[23:02:13] <renesis> http://theartmad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Smiley-Face-Black-And-White-3.png
[23:02:17] <renesis> normal
[23:05:33] * furrywolf tries to find one with tall slits for eyes, and doesn't
[23:07:14] <Jymmm> wouldn't that be like a vampire snake or something?
[23:10:34] <furrywolf> ߸)
[23:11:12] <Jymmm> http://artswallpapers.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Snake-Wallpaper-green-anaconda-reptile-eyes-desktop.jpg
[23:11:48] <furrywolf> grrr, can we please kill websites that load more of the page when you get to the bottom rather than loading it all at once?
[23:12:06] <renesis> you need more rams
[23:12:17] <furrywolf> when you're scrolling, and the page suddenly becomes longer, but you have the handle in the same spot, you jump down into the new part of the page rather than staying where you are.
[23:12:25] <furrywolf> an utterly broken happening.
[23:12:26] <Jymmm> Uh, it oly loaded the ONE image for me,
[23:12:40] <Jymmm> just a jpg directly, not html
[23:13:00] <furrywolf> I wasn't referring to whatever you pasted. I didn't even look at it.
[23:13:11] <renesis> omg rude
[23:13:31] <renesis> thats things nose is pretty nuts
[23:13:56] <Jymmm> renesis: it was the eyes that I thought furrywolf was referencing
[23:14:10] <furrywolf> ⴾ)
[23:14:14] <renesis> i know but i got all distracted
[23:14:30] <Jymmm> lol
[23:14:33] <furrywolf> hrmm, my irc client has worse unicode support than my browser. :)
[23:19:18] <furrywolf> ಊ etc render in my browser, but not irc client
[23:19:46] <Jymmm> Gonna go look at those panels tomorrow
[23:21:11] <furrywolf> bring money.
[23:21:25] <furrywolf> "here's cash" works very well for getting things cheap.
[23:21:26] <zeeshan> °°°°°°°°°
[23:21:46] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'll bring $200 and hope to get 4 panels
[23:23:02] <Jymmm> Maybe 2 for $100, I don't NEED 4.
[23:23:23] <zeeshan> lol @ solar panels
[23:23:23] <furrywolf> you always need more than you think.
[23:23:41] <furrywolf> ?
[23:23:48] <zeeshan> useless things
[23:23:59] <Jymmm> ha
[23:24:12] <zeeshan> spend that 200 on some gasoline my friend
[23:24:15] <furrywolf> not all of us live in dark, dreary countries with no sun and nothing but snow and rain and people who say eh.
[23:24:17] * zeeshan hides
[23:24:36] <zeeshan> furrywolf: lol typical ignorant thing to say
[23:24:41] <zeeshan> solar powers waste a lot of land
[23:24:46] <zeeshan> for jackshit power
[23:25:13] <furrywolf> what, you think you can make insulting generalizations and not get them back? :P
[23:25:16] <Jymmm> zeeshan: You deal with a 8hour rolling blackout on the hottest day of the year, and have the flu, no way to cool yourself, and lose everything in your reef tank THEN lets see what you have say
[23:25:30] <zeeshan> i'd use a generator in that case
[23:25:49] <renesis> jymmm: where are you that theyre doing rolling blackouts?
[23:25:52] <Jymmm> zeeshan: you cant even get out of bed
[23:25:54] <renesis> or this was before
[23:26:04] <furrywolf> solar panels are getting so cheap the cost payback is well under 5 years last I heard...
[23:26:06] <Jymmm> renesis: Enron days, NorCal
[23:26:09] <zeeshan> and thank god for canada
[23:26:13] <zeeshan> at least we dont have rolling blackouts
[23:26:15] <renesis> crazy
[23:26:22] <zeeshan> furrywolf: doesnt matter how cheap they are
[23:26:23] <zeeshan> they are useless
[23:26:26] <zeeshan> they waste land.
[23:26:26] <Jymmm> zeeshan: just 16ft snowbanks
[23:26:36] <zeeshan> for minimal gain
[23:26:42] <furrywolf> ... how does something that makes you money get classified as useless?
[23:26:43] <zeeshan> you're better off with wind power if you wanna be a greenie
[23:26:54] <Jymmm> zeeshan: your in canuck land, you dont get sun
[23:26:59] <zeeshan> we get tons of sun
[23:27:04] <norias> we don't need no solar panels
[23:27:07] <norias> we got natural gas
[23:27:11] <renesis> was mostly sunny when i was in quebec
[23:27:15] <norias> shits cheap and plentiful
[23:27:24] <renesis> even seattle gets sun
[23:27:35] <Jymmm> renesis: one day a year?
[23:27:51] <norias> Pittsburgh gets more rain than Seattle
[23:27:53] <renesis> i was up there weeks at a time and usually there would be a few days clear
[23:28:01] <zeeshan> google says 305/365 days = sunny days in toronto , canada
[23:28:05] <zeeshan> so i dont know what you're talking about
[23:28:07] <renesis> holy shit mount ranier is scary on clear days
[23:28:14] <renesis> mostly you cant see it because clouds
[23:28:56] <zeeshan> Jymmm: btw all the generator systems ive seen
[23:29:01] <zeeshan> do load switching automatically
[23:29:05] <zeeshan> so you dont need to get out of bed.
[23:29:10] <renesis> anyway, i dont get your wasting land argument, they work best installed on top of pre existing structures, without dealing with transmission and conversion losses
[23:29:27] <zeeshan> renesis: they look hideous on a roof of a house
[23:29:31] <renesis> on top of buildings, covered parking, etc
[23:29:34] <renesis> eh?
[23:29:35] <furrywolf> let's say you spend $10000, and it pays for itself, let's be pessemistic, in ten years. now, the minimum life expectancy of a solar installation is 25 years - in fact this is the warranty on most panels. so in the first ten years they make $10,000 in power. in the next ten years they make another $10,000 in power. so you've doubled your money in 20 years. that's a pretty sound investment. and since energy costs tend to go up with
[23:29:39] <renesis> i think they look cool
[23:29:39] <zeeshan> i rather have a live roof
[23:30:00] <renesis> wtf is live roof, with plants?
[23:30:04] <zeeshan> yea!
[23:30:05] <furrywolf> yes
[23:30:12] <zeeshan> furrywolf: power output decreases.
[23:30:13] <renesis> succulents would be neat
[23:30:15] <zeeshan> over years
[23:30:59] <AGR> skunkworks: I made a test run with: net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.00.enable emcmot.oo.enable : I got error: pin emcmot.oo.enable does not exist
[23:31:32] <AGR> skunkworks: can you suggest a fix for may nest test
[23:31:39] <cradek> if you can't tell the difference between 0 and o in your font, fix that problem before you try to go any further
[23:31:50] <zeeshan> furrywolf: 1000bux a year is quite a bit in electricity bills
[23:31:51] <zeeshan> btw
[23:32:04] <zeeshan> i pay close to 1200
[23:32:33] <furrywolf> it's a way to have a stupidly heavy roof that requires extra framing, always leaks and is impossible to fix, requires constant maintenance (mowing, weeding, pruning, etc as appropriate to plants planted), requires watering during dry seasons, causes allergies, has issues with sediment runoff if you try planting species that don't need watering, attracts ants, terminates, and other pests, gaurantees your house collapses in an earthquake
[23:32:46] <AGR> +cradek: sorry typo here not in hal file
[23:32:56] <cradek> ah darn
[23:33:08] <cradek> (some fonts are really bad at that)
[23:33:42] <AGR> *cradek: on your toes tonight
[23:34:09] <AGR> gave you another typo
[23:34:54] <furrywolf> unlike solar panels, which protect the roof and make it last nearly forever if installed over the entire surface.
[23:35:39] <furrywolf> s/terminates/termites
[23:35:51] <AGR> +cradek: can you comment on my post this is your hal file
[23:37:52] <zeeshan> furrywolf: my biggest problem with solar and even wind is the fact you need to store that energy in batteries
[23:37:56] <zeeshan> which are garbage
[23:38:02] <zeeshan> most of them are lucky if they last 10 years
[23:38:18] <furrywolf> I'm talking grid-tie
[23:38:37] <zeeshan> well he said he wants it during blackouts
[23:38:39] <zeeshan> if its grid tie
[23:38:44] <zeeshan> his system will shut down as well.
[23:38:47] <furrywolf> batteries cost more than the amount of energy they store over their entire lifespan... and are only a good option if it's expensive to connect to the grid.
[23:38:55] <zeeshan> so it doesnt kill someone on the grid!
[23:39:04] <furrywolf> this is why electric vehicles aren't a good idea yet. (although they're still better than hybrids!)
[23:39:19] <zeeshan> Grid makes sense to me.
[23:39:24] <zeeshan> but i was talking about battery stored systems
[23:39:39] <furrywolf> connecting to the grid is EXPENSIVE. the one time someone I know got a quote, it was $10k/pole to extend power lines, and that was in the '90s...
[23:39:40] <zeeshan> im sure someone has thought of this before
[23:39:47] <zeeshan> but i always thought, even though it's not as efficient do this
[23:39:54] <zeeshan> you have a big silo that holds water
[23:40:03] <furrywolf> so if you're more than a few blocks from power lines, batteries start making sense.
[23:40:03] <zeeshan> and you pump the water up when youre generating energy
[23:40:15] <zeeshan> then release the water using gravity to generate electricity on demand :P
[23:40:19] <zeeshan> avoid having batteries
[23:40:25] <zeeshan> but that is a well involved system
[23:40:34] <furrywolf> pumped hydroelectric requires either a very tall hill or a very large pond.
[23:40:41] <furrywolf> otherwise the energy storage is useless.
[23:40:47] <zeeshan> water tower
[23:40:51] <furrywolf> useless.
[23:40:55] <zeeshan> why?
[23:41:01] <furrywolf> doesn't store any power.
[23:41:15] <furrywolf> how tall is your theoretical water tower, and how many gallons?
[23:41:22] <zeeshan> huge
[23:41:36] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWDU4SuhOTenavGEGWIEiJskOuAB05BtIdMDw3fWeX_dSpij_3
[23:41:38] <zeeshan> one of these big boys
[23:43:08] <furrywolf> ok, let's say it's 100 feet tall and holds 100,000 gallons. are those numbers good for you?
[23:43:25] <zeeshan> what are these savage units
[23:43:28] <zeeshan> jk
[23:43:33] <zeeshan> lemme think about it
[23:43:37] <furrywolf> You have: 100 feet * 100000 gallons * waterdensity * gravity
[23:43:38] <furrywolf> You want: kilowatt hours
[23:43:38] <furrywolf> * 31.430137
[23:44:16] <zeeshan> 10,000 gallons
[23:44:20] <furrywolf> now, for perspective, a single lead-acid l16 stores 2.1 kWh.
[23:44:41] <furrywolf> and the pump and turbine efficiency is well under 50%
[23:45:09] <furrywolf> so, for a massive engineering project, a hundred foot tall tower with a hundred thousand gallon tank... you just stored as much energy as 8 generic solar system batteries.
[23:46:53] <furrywolf> a reasonably small solar system, suitable for a single-family dwelling in a reasonably sunny area.
[23:47:12] <Jymmm> I like the molton salt storage system
[23:47:59] <furrywolf> any further questions on why pumped hydro is utterly useless on a small scale? :P
[23:48:31] <zeeshan> i think its great idea
[23:48:38] <zeeshan> as lojng as you dont have to run batteries
[23:48:55] <furrywolf> it's a great idea to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to build a pumped hydro system that stores as much as $2000 of batteries?
[23:49:03] <zeeshan> yes
[23:49:11] <zeeshan> i thought the whole point of this was to be green
[23:49:16] <zeeshan> and have a smaller environmental foot print
[23:49:29] <furrywolf> and the ongoing cost of painting, pump maintenance, etc will exceed the cost of replacing the batteries?
[23:49:40] <zeeshan> and you know whats an added benefit?
[23:49:44] <zeeshan> you dont need municpal water anymore
[23:49:48] <zeeshan> just pump up ground water.
[23:50:04] <furrywolf> pumped hydro, in the real world, is done when you can build a really big dam on top of a really big hill.
[23:50:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: You been following for the media hype
[23:50:15] <toastydeath> one might say
[23:50:19] <toastydeath> a dam big hill
[23:50:37] <furrywolf> if you have to build a tower, or build a tank, the cost far exceeds other storage methods.
[23:50:43] <zeeshan> anything is better than storing power in batteries
[23:50:46] <furrywolf> the big plants use earthen dams (cheap) on big hills (free).
[23:50:47] <zeeshan> batteries are the scum of the earth!
[23:50:52] <toastydeath> i suggest that we
[23:50:57] <Jymmm> Or have one of these...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdlG5hVUhs
[23:50:59] <toastydeath> FIRE WATER INTO THE SUN
[23:51:00] <toastydeath> for power
[23:51:03] <zeeshan> rofl
[23:51:12] <furrywolf> zeeshan: you may not like batteries, but what you're proposing is substantially stupider.
[23:51:31] <zeeshan> its nto as stupid as storing solar power in batteries :)
[23:51:35] <toastydeath> aren't liquid batteries being worked on fairly seriously/pilot plants in some countries?
[23:51:52] <furrywolf> ... did you ignore everything I just said, complete with math, or are you just trolling?
[23:52:11] <Jymmm> toastytroll
[23:52:13] <zeeshan> you're lucky if you can store any energy after 10 years
[23:52:18] <zeeshan> in a battery
[23:52:21] <toastydeath> wat
[23:52:26] <Jymmm> iron batteries
[23:52:45] <Valen> molten salt batteries are my bet
[23:52:59] <toastydeath> metal batteries don't have electrode failure
[23:53:05] <toastydeath> liquid metal/liquid salt
[23:53:07] <Valen> for grid scale storage
[23:53:13] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: I have some batteries from the '40s that still store a decent portion of their original capacity.
[23:53:21] <Valen> toastydeath: thats the ones ;->
[23:53:24] <toastydeath> you replace the charging/discharging cell
[23:53:33] <toastydeath> but that's itty bitty and doesn't actually store anything
[23:53:36] <Valen> what I find interesting is they still seem to have some degrition
[23:53:44] <toastydeath> your giant tanks of salt/metal are still fine
[23:53:47] <furrywolf> just from some quick googling, municipal water tower construction costs are measured in the millions.
[23:54:06] <zeeshan> furrywolf: thats cause the government gets ripped
[23:54:19] <furrywolf> for example, a 750,000 for $2.1m, a 1,500,000 for $4.6m, etc.
[23:54:43] <Valen> unless you have very handy geography, pumped water storage doesn't work as a universal method
[23:54:54] <zeeshan> wasn't coming up witha universal method
[23:55:01] <zeeshan> was saying anything is better than battery scum
[23:55:01] <zeeshan> :P
[23:55:06] <toastydeath> this is going to be hilar if skunkworks actually figures out fusion
[23:55:13] <furrywolf> if you have 1,500,000 gallons 150ft in the air, you store...
[23:55:13] <furrywolf> You have: 150 feet * 1500000 gallons * waterdensity * gravity
[23:55:14] <furrywolf> You want: kilowatt hours
[23:55:14] <furrywolf> * 707.17807
[23:55:14] <zeeshan> haha toastydeath
[23:55:16] <zeeshan> that would be epic
[23:55:23] <toastydeath> "oops, guess this matters less now."
[23:55:25] <Valen> lithium nanophosphate cells last for a decade with 30% loss of capacity
[23:55:47] <zeeshan> Valen: that sounds like a very environmentally friendly battery
[23:55:58] <zeeshan> lets throw some in the ocean and see what happens
[23:56:13] <furrywolf> now, using my example of generic L16s, that's as much as an amazing 300 batteries, costing around $75,000
[23:56:13] <Valen> yeah it is, not many rare elements in it, fully recyclable
[23:56:22] <zeeshan> i was being sarcastic
[23:56:24] <zeeshan> :P
[23:56:38] <furrywolf> and that's assuming your pumps, turbines, generators, etc, are anywhere near as efficient as batteries. which they aren't.
[23:56:44] <toastydeath> if i was a dictator i'd undertake giant, absurd projects
[23:56:48] <toastydeath> like a giant battery-tower
[23:56:49] * Jymmm waits for toastydeath to talk about hydrogen generators the size of toasters to power the whole house on just one gallon of water a month.!
[23:56:52] <toastydeath> that is labelled "giant battery"
[23:56:53] <Valen> and the gigafactory elon has built looks like its turning them out at cheap enough prices to actually be making disconnecting from the grid a worthwhile proposition in a suburban area
[23:57:05] <toastydeath> Jymmm: wat
[23:57:08] <Valen> toastydeath: and looks like a D Cell?
[23:57:17] <toastydeath> no way, 9 volt
[23:57:17] * zeeshan loves hydrogen fuel cells
[23:57:23] <zeeshan> something that makes sense
[23:57:40] <furrywolf> so, for $4.6 million, you can build a water tower to store as much energy as $46,000 of batteries. that's a factor of 100. you can replace the batteries ONE HUNDRED TIMES before it's more cost-effective to have a water tower.
[23:57:40] <furrywolf> but wait! there's more! the water tower probably only has a 50 year life expectancy!
[23:57:48] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Great, I'll take two for $50/ea with free shipping
[23:57:53] <zeeshan> lol
[23:58:20] <furrywolf> while the batteries have a 10 year life expectancy! so 50 years later, you replace your $4.6m water tower, and you've only burned through $0.23m of batteries.
[23:58:30] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you're pulling numbers out of your ass
[23:58:32] <zeeshan> just stop it
[23:58:55] <Valen> furrywolf: actually they will last longer than 10 years, that is just the point they have a 30% loss of capacity
[23:58:58] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Got something better to offer then?
[23:58:59] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the tower figures are from an actual, constructed tower, that seemed to be a representative example of the size and costs of large water towers.
[23:59:06] <furrywolf> zeeshan: the math is basic physics
[23:59:23] <furrywolf> the cost of batteries is the actual current cost and capacity of generic L16s
[23:59:41] <zeeshan> solar power and wind power is retarded to begin with for small scale.
[23:59:47] <zeeshan> so the arguement ended there a long time ago
[23:59:52] <furrywolf> the 50 year life expectancy is based on them just having to replace the water tower a couple years over due to irreparable rust.
[23:59:53] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Offer soething better then
[23:59:56] <zeeshan> yes its called
[23:59:58] <zeeshan> a diesel generator.
