#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-07-06

[00:00:06] <XXCoder> it was pretty quick when I tested it but well
[00:01:06] <furrywolf> argh... I'm getting really fucking sick of being unable to do anything. I have to try going to work again tomorrow, but I don't think I'll be able to finish the day.
[00:01:19] <XXCoder> would back brace work>
[00:01:31] <zeeshan> furrywolf: you do deliveries?
[00:01:39] <Jymmm> furrywolf: go smoke some
[00:01:46] <furrywolf> yes
[00:01:47] <furrywolf> XXCoder: no
[00:01:52] <furrywolf> Jymmm: hell no
[00:02:02] <zeeshan> you sir need a new job
[00:02:06] <zeeshan> too smart to be doing deliveries
[00:02:07] <Jymmm> furrywolf: it works for back pain
[00:02:47] <furrywolf> Jymmm: even if I developed enough brain damage to want to, it's grounds for immediate dismissal from my job. even having a 215 card disqualifies you, before you even fail the drug test...
[00:03:15] <XXCoder> dang
[00:03:31] <Jymmm> furrywolf: That would be a medical disqualification?
[00:03:36] <XXCoder> zeeshan: can guess from video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ltnfI5XqtSo#t=329
[00:03:52] <furrywolf> Jymmm: no, that would be "you're fired, get your stuff and get the fuck out".
[00:04:16] <Jymmm> furrywolf: sounds like a lawsuit to me
[00:04:28] <XXCoder> Jymmm: not at "right to work" states
[00:04:34] <furrywolf> ... complaining you got fired for breaking the law is not grounds for a lawsuit.
[00:04:36] <XXCoder> can fire for snorting snow
[00:04:43] <XXCoder> or snorting literal snow
[00:04:56] <zeeshan> you dont need to guess
[00:05:01] <Jymmm> anyhow...
[00:05:02] <zeeshan> you can see it in his mach 3 velocity profile
[00:05:04] <zeeshan> 116 ipm
[00:05:05] <zeeshan> is max speed
[00:05:12] <zeeshan> but that doesnt mean you can machine at that speed
[00:05:17] <zeeshan> might stall the motors
[00:05:40] <XXCoder> honestly I would run wood most times which is not problem
[00:05:48] <XXCoder> just that sometimes I want mill alum
[00:05:58] <XXCoder> my bosch router can do 8k to 12k
[00:06:14] <XXCoder> which is good range but it cant be clamped :(
[00:06:33] <furrywolf> this new leg problem is even more annoying... if it's not better tomorrow I'll need to go back to the hospital... blargh.
[00:14:40] <XXCoder> sucks
[00:14:41] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: a new job would be nice, but work is very hard to find, and I don't have many useful skills.
[00:15:03] <XXCoder> zeeshan: interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn-VCtGEmnA
[00:15:11] <XXCoder> it has same design as mine
[00:15:22] <XXCoder> but it has spindle and clamp for it
[00:16:41] <XXCoder> hm closeup shows few differences
[00:17:49] <XXCoder> that one looks exactly same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htsXSj8kclI
[00:17:54] <XXCoder> but clearly modified.
[00:38:43] <furrywolf> bbl
[00:42:11] <renesis> haha @ furrywolf not having skills
[00:42:27] <furrywolf> ?
[00:42:39] <XXCoder> ?
[00:42:47] <renesis> while you might suck at kissing ass, entering all the data, and bullshitting people,, you could prob find a job as a tech somewhere
[00:43:15] <furrywolf> I know a little about a lot of things, which isn't generally what employers want.
[00:43:30] <renesis> but yeah, kissing ass, data entry, bullshit the customer, this is where all the jobs at
[00:44:12] <renesis> honestly thats how a lot of techs are, and then you specialize them
[00:44:28] <furrywolf> I know a lot more about non-tech-things than tech things
[00:44:42] <renesis> if you didnt live out in the middle of nowhere it would be easier to find something techy
[00:45:24] <XXCoder> I think she does
[00:45:25] <XXCoder> nowhere that is
[00:45:33] <renesis> but you know more than some of the people ive worked with
[00:46:00] <renesis> xxcoder: its so fuckin beautiful tho
[00:46:24] <XXCoder> I bet. I'm lucky enough to live so near inlet sea pudget sound
[00:46:25] <furrywolf> I can do automotive, electrical, mechanical, plumbing, carpentry, well drilling, computers, programming, teaching, sex toy sales, hydraulics, pneumatics, engines, handyman work, small engine repair,... I'm just not anywhere close to an expert at any of it.
[00:46:56] <Jymmm> furrywolf: just make/sell sex machines/toys/chairs
[00:47:16] <XXCoder> or any combation thereof lol
[00:47:21] <renesis> could do that in LA or the bay
[00:47:22] <furrywolf> Jymmm: I'd need a girlfriend who's into such things to help me test them, and that's much, much harder to find than a good job.
[00:47:27] <renesis> not joking
[00:47:42] <renesis> furrywolf: porn hookers
[00:47:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: NO, thats playing, not working
[00:48:21] <renesis> you come to chatsworth, you say hey i can build you these things, negotiate somewhat reasonable terms (remember youre just starting out)
[00:48:40] <renesis> and if they have money to get you going, they should be able to provide the girls
[00:49:14] * furrywolf doesn't like porn, hookers, or casual sex.
[00:49:50] <renesis> well then breaking into sex toy r&d might be difficult
[00:49:57] <XXCoder> you dont have to test em with em
[00:49:58] <renesis> and its work
[00:50:04] <renesis> youre not always supposed to like it
[00:50:06] <XXCoder> get 2 women if some toy needs 2
[00:50:21] <renesis> you can get a hazmat suit
[00:50:21] <furrywolf> trust me, you can tell which toys were designed by people who never actually used them. :P
[00:50:23] <renesis> itll be neat
[00:50:27] <furrywolf> (most of the big brands, for example....)
[00:51:46] <renesis> anyway, youre broad skillset is what most good techs have, r&d and service
[00:52:28] <renesis> you usually have to be able to support multiple engineering fields, so cross functionality and learning things quick are huge
[00:54:41] <renesis> my guess is your area has 10x more tech geeks than it needs =(
[00:54:57] * furrywolf isn't a tech geek
[00:55:08] <renesis> youre pretty technical
[00:55:51] <furrywolf> I just upgraded to a 1.8ghz core 2 duo.
[00:56:13] <renesis> i beat you this one is 2.0ghz
[00:56:31] <furrywolf> tech geeks care about computers enough not to use something ten years old.
[00:56:41] <renesis> machinery and fab is technical
[00:57:27] <renesis> tech geeks build computers decent enough to outlast that generation of gear, making upgrade costly with low roi
[00:57:46] <renesis> and since the computer is well built, it does fine even 6 years later
[00:57:47] <furrywolf> I bought it for $40 on craigslist.
[00:57:54] <renesis> neat
[00:58:03] <XXCoder> ren yeah my old pc lasted years
[00:58:08] <XXCoder> built it I think 2006 or so
[00:58:15] <renesis> i think thats what i paid for my linuxcnc pc
[00:58:19] <XXCoder> and my pc is likely to last as long
[00:58:35] <XXCoder> *new
[00:58:38] <renesis> xxcoder: i upgraded psu and vid cards, went to ssd, because can be pushed into new system
[00:58:55] <renesis> so now i have more gpu ram than system ram because i wont buy more ddr2
[00:59:16] <XXCoder> heh never upgraded mine, other than downgrade of raid 5 - 3 60 gb disks to single 350 gb hd
[00:59:28] <renesis> i bought ddr2 for this laptop, 8gb was like $120 or something crazy
[00:59:41] <XXCoder> crazy
[00:59:54] <XXCoder> new pc 16 gb ram for less
[01:00:01] <renesis> upgrading old parts is so cost dumb
[01:00:24] <renesis> but yeah that + ssd, and this laptop is usable, not enough bottleneck so now the cpu overheats
[01:00:46] <XXCoder> lol
[01:00:56] <furrywolf> best deal on ram I've gotten was around 2001 when I got 2GB (4 512 sticks) of PC133 for $1 at a yard sale.
[01:00:57] <XXCoder> AC cooled laptop ;)
[01:01:31] <XXCoder> lol my steal was $200 for 4 mb ram (4x1mb)
[01:01:32] <renesis> but it has a 15" 1920x1200 monitor, and is a work dell, is almost tankish like old thinkpads
[01:01:42] <XXCoder> that era it would cost $450
[01:02:02] * furrywolf had a $4k 16kb ram upgrade for a trash-80...
[01:02:42] <renesis> anyway, stop faking, move to a place with jobs and work
[01:03:00] <renesis> or dont, i wouldnt, i would stay where you are forever if you can hustle it
[01:03:20] <XXCoder> furrywolf: online sex toys shop
[01:03:43] <furrywolf> XXCoder: very hard to make money doing that.
[01:03:57] <furrywolf> margins are SLIM and competition is plentiful.
[01:04:01] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:04:06] <renesis> pre-established china competition
[01:04:28] <XXCoder> more specialized as long as its not one or 2 customer specializion
[01:04:52] <renesis> then you got a few months before its copied
[01:04:58] <furrywolf> you either have to have an uncommon specialty (anything more than about three people are into is already taken) or enough funding to start very, very big.
[01:05:08] <XXCoder> interesting
[01:05:19] <renesis> and if you start big you gotta be able to change direction quick
[01:05:33] <furrywolf> for example, the other day I cam across a business specializing entirely in silicone colon tubes. if you can think of it, there's a store selling it. :P
[01:06:30] <renesis> manufacturing stuff is hard =(
[01:07:19] <renesis> i think you could do fab work
[01:07:43] <furrywolf> I have no drafting, cad, or cam skills.
[01:07:47] <renesis> i just dont think it would be very consistent
[01:08:11] <furrywolf> or much practical machining experience
[01:08:16] <furrywolf> or tooling
[01:08:16] <furrywolf> or a shop
[01:08:20] <furrywolf> or a machine worth owning
[01:08:45] <renesis> right im saying you could work in a shop that does fab, and you would know enough they could teach you what you dont know
[01:09:26] <furrywolf> not a lot of fab shops left here.
[01:09:36] <renesis> prob most of the work around you would be for artsy types, and thats prob way spotty
[01:09:44] <furrywolf> and they're doing the opposite of hiring.
[01:10:39] <renesis> kind of same in LA/bay, but these lots of places so usually something
[01:11:11] * furrywolf wants to live as far from LA as possible
[01:11:27] <renesis> dunno east coast kinda sucks
[01:11:47] <furrywolf> cities suck in general.
[01:11:56] <renesis> youd prob like the santa monica mountains, these places for you to hide
[01:12:23] <furrywolf> I'm a country wolfy. dirt roads are good.
[01:12:25] <renesis> well cool thing about LA is you drive 15min and its like youre in the middle of nowhere
[01:12:45] <XXCoder> its same for las vega
[01:12:57] <furrywolf> my experience is you drive 15mins, and you're 50 feet from where you started... if traffic actually moving at all that day.
[01:12:58] <XXCoder> BIG city and you can walk to where you can see nothing manmade
[01:13:07] <renesis> bit more geographical diversity in LA
[01:13:17] <renesis> but yeah pretty much same thing
[01:13:45] <Jymmm> Santa Monica HILLS
[01:13:54] <XXCoder> man
[01:13:56] <furrywolf> last time I was in the bay area, it took two fucking hours to get from hayward to the bridge...
[01:14:03] <renesis> why arent they mountains?
[01:14:09] <XXCoder> sellers NEVER state design facts for any clamp for spidle
[01:14:24] <Jymmm> renesis: MtBaldy is a mountain
[01:14:37] <furrywolf> also, it's way too fucking hot down there
[01:14:43] <Jymmm> Big Bear is a Mountain
[01:15:37] <renesis> theres sheer canyona and cliffs everywhere
[01:16:32] <renesis> also the stuff on the east side of the valley by angeles national forest is supposedly some of the steepest inclines in the country
[01:16:55] <furrywolf> bbl, sleep
[01:17:52] <renesis> also fuck ksitting in traffic, i drove mulholland home all last week instead
[01:18:39] <renesis> worst case you get stuck behind someone going the speed limit
[01:22:50] <XXCoder> man
[01:22:54] <XXCoder> just dunno what to do
[01:23:12] <XXCoder> I has 43 mm clamp for router but nothing fits it
[01:23:23] <XXCoder> except that single one
[01:23:30] <XXCoder> but its only 27000 rpm
[01:23:34] <XXCoder> no change
[01:52:50] <digshadow> I'm trying to use a beagle bone black for simple XY step/direction pulses directly from the BBB. There are some example BBB configs but they seem somewhat complicated for servos, capes, etc. I'm thinking its easier to start with a simple step/direction config (ex: sherline mill config) and try to very selectively splice things in. Does this sound like the right approach?
[02:15:25] <archivist> Valen, a mantle clock, flea market price of £5 a winding hole, although I have seen ambitious antique dealers try to get up to £90
[02:16:07] <archivist> usually have to quote more than they are worth for restoration
[02:20:05] <digshadow> http://siliconpr0n.org/uv/linuxcnc/config-uvgex/
[02:20:12] <digshadow> gong to see how that goes...
[02:24:26] <digshadow> rtapi_app_main(hal_bb_gpio): -1 Operation not permitted
[02:36:04] <Deejay> moin
[03:55:37] <MrSunshine> there ..corebox in corian made, poished all the surfaces and sprayed it with silicon lube before i put the core sand in .. lets see if this works then, if this fails i have dowel holes so i can cut the pattern in half, fill the parts, harden it and glue it together before i remove the core =)
[03:58:12] <XXCoder> any pics?
[04:15:02] <XXCoder> guess not
[04:32:47] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: later :P
[04:32:54] <MrSunshine> atm its full of sand =)
[04:32:56] <XXCoder> lol ok
[04:33:07] <MrSunshine> but i guess thats a good a pic as any
[05:19:54] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: http://postimg.org/image/f9oooczxf/
[05:19:57] <MrSunshine> result =)
[05:20:10] <MrSunshine> one break but the two halfs is getting glued together later so no problem there =)
[05:20:13] <XXCoder> looks very clean
[05:20:53] <MrSunshine> corian is frekkin awesome material .. tho its a bit expensive =)
[05:21:11] <MrSunshine> now i need to route out the outer pattern for the thingie =)
[05:21:12] <XXCoder> so what will make up final part material?
[05:21:21] <MrSunshine> aluminium
[05:21:31] <MrSunshine> its a 3 way compressed air cooling system for the router =)
[05:23:26] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[05:23:26] <XXCoder> saw something like thaty
[05:23:32] <XXCoder> its nice way
[05:23:46] <XXCoder> though one at machine I used it was made from bent pipe
[05:23:53] <XXCoder> using roller I guess
[05:26:11] <MrSunshine> yeah i could do that, but .. nah .. i have to go the complicated way :P
[05:26:23] <XXCoder> lol
[05:26:30] <MrSunshine> hopefully will get it done to the end of this week as im going to cut plastics then =)
[05:26:45] <XXCoder> hopefully my router will be done this year :P
[05:26:48] <MrSunshine> tho that would require me casting on thusday or some
[05:26:50] <MrSunshine> so
[05:26:53] <XXCoder> just ordered that 27000 rpm router
[05:26:54] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: haha =)
[05:26:58] <XXCoder> lets see how well it works
[05:27:25] <XXCoder> I just dont have any machine to build new mount for bigger sized spindle, not even slightly bigger 53mm.
[06:40:54] <Valen> archivist, I'm not really caring about the $ value, I'm just liking I have a working mechanical clock ;->
[06:41:38] <XXCoder> Valen: someone managed to make lego grandfather clock that actually work
[06:41:46] <XXCoder> and no cheaty stuff like nonlego
[06:42:26] <XXCoder> it lasted 25 hours or so so pretty ineffecient but hey lego.
[06:44:15] <XXCoder> oh yeah 30 hours
[06:44:20] <XXCoder> been years since I last read. http://www.ericharshbarger.org/lego/clock.html
[08:10:10] <archivist_herron> 30 hrs is the standard for daily wind clocks
[09:08:14] <Crom> I just bought a baofeng UV-5R for $28... Just found out I could have gotten a UV-6R for $35
[09:10:44] <archivist> "It has a good sales record in the communication market. It has been awarded the good reputation from our customers. " sales bs :)
[09:10:49] <Crom> sheeshz... these brain dead designers.. only 7 characters for the name field.... They have a 48mhz cpu and they can't scroll? a nice 45 char window would be nice
[09:12:25] <Crom> less that 8K difference
[09:14:37] <Crom> hell 64 char would still be less than 8kilobyte
[09:15:09] <Crom> 64 char vs 7 on 128 memories
[09:15:22] <norias> you no need 45 char
[09:15:34] <norias> you learn
[09:15:39] <norias> 7 char just fine
[09:15:43] <norias> why you complain?
[09:17:09] <Crom> I have many repeaters and would like more space to put more desciption.. like peak, state, city
[09:17:38] <Crom> also the freq scrolling would be nice too...
[09:18:14] <Crom> right now I have mem A line as name and mem B line as freq and set them to both the same memory to see the name and frequency
[09:23:37] <Crom> heh, it's a $28 radio... I could give it away if I had too and get another... but they sound decent, have OK receivers. but it's not a $99 like my Piece of crap alinco 2 meter handy talkie. It's closer to my $400 kenwood th-d7a in features
[09:24:31] <archivist> I have a couple of Trio/Kenwood
[09:27:00] <Crom> I need to find my Yaesu FT-50R
[09:27:17] <Crom> I haven't seen it in 5 years..
[09:29:17] <Crom> dang that ft-50R is almost 17 years old...
[09:36:23] <Crom> A new LiOn battery for my th-d7a is $39....
[09:42:05] <Jymmm> LiIon?
[09:43:05] <Jymmm> Crom: you mean Ni-MH ?
[09:45:13] <Crom> stock is Ni-MH. There are LiIon replacement batteries for $39
[09:45:40] <Jymmm> Crom: But the charging technology is different
[09:46:03] <Jymmm> Ni-Cad and Ni-MH, sure. but Li-Ion?
[09:46:22] <Crom> the new battery has it's own charger
[09:47:00] <Jymmm> So you can't use a dropin or the pwr jack on the side of the radio to charge it?
[09:47:15] <Jymmm> or car adapter ?
[09:47:36] <gonzo__> the chinese radios are so cheap that if you drop it, it's not worth bending down to pick them up
[09:47:54] <Jymmm> THD7a aint a chinese radio =)
[09:48:22] <Crom> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PB38-PB39-Li-ion-Battery-Charger-Combo-for-Kenwood-Radio-TH-G71E-TH-D7A-TH-D7G-/200815963842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec1906ec2
[09:48:49] <Crom> it has it's own power jack on the battery
[09:49:52] <Crom> it's a great radio... just the battery died years ago... so I'm tethered to a 12v outlet right now
[09:50:14] <Crom> I'd like to walk around with it
[09:50:34] <Crom> my yaesu and alinco's have the same problem
[09:50:53] <Crom> Ni-MH and Ni-Cd respectively
[09:51:41] <Jymmm> The Ni-MH in mine is still going, the Ni-Cad gave up years ago.
[09:52:48] <Jymmm> Crom: Li-Ion have an avg lifespan of about 24 months
[09:53:07] <Crom> now I need to bring a 12v power port home... or move my mighty max PS closer to the computer
[09:53:47] <Jymmm> You want a PS for it?
[09:53:49] <Crom> Li-Ion's have been holding up for me about 4 years
[09:54:32] <Crom> Jymm I have 4... just none of them close enough to the computer to power the radio so I can run the programming cable
[09:54:48] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[09:55:44] <Jymmm> Crom: Please let me know how that Li-Ion works out
[09:56:23] <Crom> it's gonna be awhile... gotta pay some bills before I spend more on ebay
[09:56:44] <Jymmm> Crom: If you want a 5th PS... http://www.ebay.com/itm/EFA-12V-1500mA-AC-Adapter-Model-LT52401100-A51215-Multi-Meter-Tested-Free-Ship-/400941036891
[09:57:15] <Jymmm> full 6W =)
[09:57:22] <Crom> and I have 6 BF-888S radios also
[09:58:36] <Jymmm> one for each hand?
[10:00:18] <Crom> mighty max is 25amps 300w switching supply, coleman is 4.5amp 54watts switching supply, outback on the TM-D700a is the 16amp 192w PS regulated, and the 36w RS PS
[10:01:09] <Crom> 2 for the daughter, and 4 for the Shakespeareinthevines.org
[10:01:26] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[10:01:32] <Crom> they havent paid me for them yet, so they're still mine
[10:01:38] <Jymmm> lol
[10:02:04] <Crom> and now I have my UV-5r for me
[10:02:07] <Jymmm> I just got a Hustler for the d700
[10:02:40] <Jymmm> http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamantm/4507.html
[10:02:53] <Crom> I'm using my old Garmin Gecko GPS with a dead screen on the D700
[10:03:11] <Jymmm> That works =)
[10:03:53] <Crom> antenna I'm using an Elk dual band logarithmic
[10:04:18] <Jymmm> Heh, if you need to make a head extension cable, you can use an old coiled handset cable then install a RJ-15 on one end
[10:05:03] <Crom> I haven't seen my phone crimpers in years
[10:05:15] <_methods> lol
[10:05:29] <_methods> i have a cat5 combo crimper
[10:05:31] <Crom> w/ wifi and cell phones... we're pretty much wireless here
[10:05:32] <archivist> under that pile ---------------> there
[10:05:53] <_methods> but phone jacks = dead
[10:05:59] <Crom> _methods, yeah mine does RJ-45 as well
[10:06:03] <_methods> at least in my house
[10:06:20] <Jymmm> _methods: Never... I have a FWT =)
[10:06:31] <_methods> i'm all cat6
[10:06:34] <Crom> I think it's near the water heater... that's the last place I saw it... 8 years ago
[10:07:20] <Crom> heh I just found a pile of 6 v92 voice/fax modems
[10:07:39] <archivist> I go on search/tidy sessions once in a while
[10:07:55] <archivist> resets the memory of last seen
[10:08:42] <Jymmm> _methods: http://www.amazon.com/At-Wireless-Home-Phone-Base/dp/B00B5HLP9C
[10:10:19] <Jymmm> _methods: It's cellular-to-pots adapter
[10:11:32] <PetefromTn_> Morning LinuxCNC
[10:11:59] <ssi> morning PEEEET
[10:12:12] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[10:12:21] <PetefromTn_> Whatsgoinon?
[10:12:27] <ssi> effin nothin
[10:12:30] <PetefromTn_> anything interesting
[10:12:37] <Jymmm> Crom: I'm thinking about making a stealth repeater with a couple uv5r's =)
[10:14:48] <Crom> there you go... not the greatest duty cycle...
[10:15:29] <Jymmm> Crom: how not great?
[10:15:32] <Jymmm> 50% ?
[10:15:32] <Crom> run it low power and get a linear..
[10:16:34] <Jymmm> Can't, it'll be up at 7000ft in BFE
[10:16:59] <Crom> repeaters are built to run at > 90% Dutycycle... handie talkies are rated like at 10%-20%
[10:17:31] <archivist> toy talkies dont have duplex!
[10:17:35] <Crom> take one apart and see if you can extra cooling
[10:17:45] <Crom> can add extra
[10:17:47] <archivist> and the filtering for that duty
[10:18:01] <Jymmm> archivist: crossband
[10:18:43] <Jymmm> Oh it'll be in pieces, or it won't fit in the enclosure =)
[10:19:05] <Crom> heh ebay has a controller.. for $69... more than 2 radios
[10:19:20] <archivist> you still need good filtering crossband
[10:19:45] <Crom> surecom Sr-328 duplex repeater.. $37
[10:20:39] <Jymmm> I'm just going to do this for the most part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KrH86Dzhnc
[10:20:52] <Jymmm> It's just an audio cable using VOX
[10:21:07] <Jymmm> ghettopeater =)
[10:21:20] <Crom> or open up the radio and get the audio before the (de)emphasis circuit and feed it into the other radio after the (de)emphasis
[10:21:41] <Crom> search winsystem flat audio
[10:22:37] <Jymmm> Crom: nothing really for "flat audio"
[10:23:09] <archivist> my kenwood mobile does have crossband repeater mode built in :)
[10:23:46] <archivist> internal link has to be removed to enable
[10:24:25] <Jymmm> That sucks on the EU models, the US had it enabled by default.
[10:27:11] <Crom> http://www.thedeanfamily.com/WIN%20System%20papers/WIN_a_Flat_Audio.htm
[10:27:46] <Jymmm> Crom: ty
[10:27:52] <Crom> both of my kenwood mobile crossband
[10:29:23] <Jymmm> I'll have to add a CWID'er, but not a biggy
[10:29:38] <gonzo__> not many modern dual band radios will do full duplex, as they often have wideband rx facilities
[10:29:57] <gonzo__> (full dupe also nice for satellite work)
[10:30:03] <Jymmm> The TH-D7a does do FULL duplex
[10:30:08] <gonzo__> but at the cost of .cn radios, just buy two!
[10:31:59] <Jymmm> Crom: The flat audio might help, as I want to do a digital audio uplink, and maybe have a HF qrp rig as well
[10:33:51] <PetefromTn_> gfrd++
[10:34:11] <Jymmm> I found out that the chip used in many of those $2 usb sound card has voip features internally
[10:35:13] <PetefromTn_> LOL oops
[10:36:09] <Jymmm> Crom: Then use http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php
[10:36:54] <Jymmm> Crom: which I'm told will let me have a "control" channel as well.
[10:40:07] <Crom> interesting... but you tie up a computer as well
[10:41:33] <zeeshan> has anyone here made a 3d touch probe themself
[10:42:10] <archivist> not yet
[10:42:17] <PetefromTn_> nope
[10:42:33] <PetefromTn_> I think Connor bought one of those wildhorse ones tho.
[10:42:44] <archivist> I have taken one to bits to see how it works
[10:42:52] <zeeshan> got any pics?
[10:43:33] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=probe+2011
[10:43:54] <archivist> later delved deeper to the contacts
[10:44:25] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out why the probe a lot of people buy from cnc4pc for likr 135$
[10:44:33] <zeeshan> has a repeatability of 0.0002-0.0005"
[10:44:43] <zeeshan> while the renishaw has 0.00002
[10:44:55] <PetefromTn_> renishaw is a strain gauge or something no?
[10:45:05] <archivist> may I recommend this light reading http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/renishaw/Technical%20article:%20OMP400%20-%20strain%20gauge%20probe%20-%20Renishaw%20probing%20technology%20and%20the%20new%20OMP400.pdf
[10:45:10] <PetefromTn_> and the others are the six ball bearing contact style
[10:45:20] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_: nah
[10:45:33] <archivist> shows the contact errors and why the strain gauge is better
[10:45:49] <zeeshan> https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US5146691-2.png
[10:45:51] <PetefromTn_> nah what?
[10:45:52] <zeeshan> i see some ballz
[10:46:03] <archivist> the three point support are a basic error source
[10:46:40] <archivist> that is an older patent
[10:46:45] <zeeshan> O
[10:47:40] <archivist> that doc I found on renishaws sight is interesting
[10:47:45] <archivist> site
[10:48:13] <zeeshan> so basically two important mechanisms
[10:48:20] <zeeshan> one is low friction drive of probe
[10:48:27] <zeeshan> and the fact that it returns back to stock position
[10:48:32] <zeeshan> and then the triggering portion
[10:49:03] <zeeshan> why the 6 dowels?
[10:49:34] <archivist> 6 balls 3 dowels
[10:49:40] <zeeshan> no i see those
[10:49:42] <zeeshan> b ut theres some more dowels
[10:50:36] <archivist> that patent is inverting the function to 3 balls 6 straight
[10:50:48] <archivist> same result
[10:51:21] <archivist> slot edges
[10:51:51] <zeeshan> how much did that probe cost you btw
[10:51:57] <Jymmm> Crom: I could use a pi, but this would allow to control/operate a QRP rig remotely
[10:52:09] <archivist> erm....not a lot....£5
[10:52:38] <zeeshan> mp series is strain gage based?
[10:52:55] <archivist> but mine has a worse contact design then the original renishaw
[10:54:38] <zeeshan> i think ill just pick up the cnc4pc one
[10:54:40] <zeeshan> its cheap
[10:54:42] <archivist> has three flats three balls and a flat spring to keep in contact and inline, therefore the asymetric forces are much worse than in that paper
[10:54:45] <Jymmm> Crom: Basically qrp rig with a 7000ft tall antenna =)
[10:54:48] <zeeshan> and 0.0002 to 0.0005 is more than adequate it'd think
[10:55:38] <archivist> check with a ring, I bet they dont achieve the spec they claim
[10:56:00] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: hehe pattern fell apart a bit when i tried to glue it. . trying to save it but else i have to make a new one :P
[10:56:19] <archivist> you should see a triangular error like in that paper
[10:56:19] <zeeshan> i has round gage blocks
[10:57:06] <archivist> I think I have dreamed up a different strain gauge design :)
[10:57:32] <archivist> so should not be under their patent :)
[10:58:53] <archivist> must get bits on the way from hong kong/china
[10:59:10] <zeeshan> i have a different design in mind
[10:59:19] <zeeshan> im not sure why it's not as utilized
[10:59:24] <zeeshan> a combination of proximity switches
[10:59:27] <zeeshan> non contact
[11:00:54] <archivist> one needs same detection in all directions really not just a few
[11:01:52] <zeeshan> you aint getting me :P
[11:02:03] <zeeshan> think of a ball joint on a car
[11:02:20] <zeeshan> but a shaft protruding out
[11:02:38] <archivist> I know that joint but what is behind matters
[11:02:38] <zeeshan> and the whole ball cage on a spring mechanism as well
[11:03:07] <archivist> http://mbccmm.com/cmmq/index.php/past-articles/dmsc-special-edition/190-renishaw-and-standards-dmis-5-2
[11:05:53] <archivist> a capacitor plate behind sees half move away and half towards, balanced no output
[11:07:54] <archivist> I think I have found a nice imbalance that is consistent for any side force
[11:08:18] <zeeshan> :D
[11:09:03] <archivist> and need to do shum maffs so end force is similar ish near enough
[11:11:53] <archivist> small amount of mechanics a sheet spring and http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electronic-Balance-Four-wire-Weighing-Load-Cell-Sensor-500g-/291502087981
[11:12:35] <archivist> or a lighter one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminum-Alloy-0-100g-Miniature-Weighing-Load-Cell-for-Electronic-Scale-/191363861738
[11:15:08] <os1r1s> archivist: The TP100 probe that you looked at from imsrv is really this one. http://www.performancemotion.com/tp-100.html
[11:15:58] * zeeshan cant trust that probe
[11:16:05] <zeeshan> no accuracy
[11:16:09] <zeeshan> written on that page!
[11:16:30] <os1r1s> zeeshan: Its ok. I have one. Not great, but ok
[11:16:39] <zeeshan> like 0.0002? =D
[11:16:48] <os1r1s> zeeshan: Its not a renshaw
[11:17:06] <os1r1s> renishaw
[11:17:52] <archivist> fun part is verifying any accuracy :)
[11:18:07] <zeeshan> but its too late then
[11:18:09] <zeeshan> $ has been spent
[11:18:10] <archivist> strain gauge ordered :)
[11:18:26] <archivist> rf module ordered
[11:19:02] <archivist> some tips obtained already
[11:24:40] <os1r1s> archivist: We have a lot of CMMs at work with expensive probes. This is not that. This does work for locating parts and even bed of nails scanning.
[11:25:18] <archivist> os1r1s, my interest is in the technology and doing it even cheaper
[11:28:11] <os1r1s> archivist: A really cheap way of doing it is just a contact probe.
[11:28:22] <os1r1s> metal to metal closing a circuit
[11:28:46] <archivist> cheap and not so good
[11:28:52] <Rab> os1r1s, challenging for non-conductive workpieces.
[11:28:57] <os1r1s> archivist: Why not good?
[11:29:09] <zeeshan> if its at least 0.0002 repeatability
[11:29:11] <zeeshan> im happy
[11:29:24] <os1r1s> Rab: Agreed
[11:29:43] <archivist> my axis does not approach .0002 !
[11:30:07] <archivist> the best axis at that
[11:30:41] <archivist> I said no so good, not not good
[11:31:28] <os1r1s> :P
[11:32:07] <archivist> finding the error terms so the measuring device is an order of magnitude better than the thing you are measuring
[11:33:23] <os1r1s> archivist: Are you primarily worried about X/Y, Z, or all?
[11:40:02] <archivist> you need all if probing a random shape to an accuracy
[11:40:41] <archivist> I think some of the ones I have seen are just doing xy
[11:43:27] <os1r1s> archivist: 2d or 3d?
[11:43:54] <archivist> either
[11:44:34] <archivist> the error term from the contact types varies with force direction
[11:45:03] <os1r1s> archivist: I'm interested in using a camera to help locate. That only works with 2d though
[11:45:43] <archivist> you can use a telecentric lens and also focus to define distance
[11:46:49] <archivist> I took one of my small gears to a show and a camera based machine was able to measure 3d
[11:48:29] <monttyle> The mock-up works: http://burningsmell.org/images/crazycnc5.jpg
[11:49:46] * archivist looks at the cooker rings below....just right for bluing steel
[11:51:44] <monttyle> Not a good plan in my apt.. The fire alarm is like 7 feet away
[11:52:06] <spline> heh
[11:53:39] <archivist> I built a ring inside a firebick box
[11:55:10] <archivist> aluminium heat spreader and a tray with sand to contact the item, with a controller set to 293 deg c seems to work
[11:56:19] <monttyle> a ring?
[11:56:45] <archivist> yes scrapped a cooker to get it
[11:59:28] <archivist> chuck a lump in and it comes out blue like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2002/2002_09_18_Wheelcutting/P9190292.JPG done on another device years before
[11:59:52] <monttyle> I'm missing something obvious. Ring of what?
[12:02:50] <archivist> like off your cooker below your cnc
[12:08:08] <monttyle> Oh! Right.
[12:08:24] <monttyle> I've actually seen pictures of people melting pot metal right on the stove :p
[12:24:39] <furrywolf> argh.... I tried working today, and failed miserably.
[12:24:52] <furrywolf> had to call someone to come rescue me
[12:26:05] <Sairon> hmm
[12:26:09] <Sairon> what work do you do?
[12:26:16] <furrywolf> delivery driver
[12:38:07] <furrywolf> I don't know if I should wait, or try to go to a back/neck specialist... if there's any problem billing her insurance for it, there's no way I can pay it...
[12:38:51] <archivist> no medical insurance at all?
[12:39:02] <furrywolf> of course not. I'm in the US, remember?
[12:39:37] <archivist> why did the republicans bicker so much against obama care
[12:39:55] <monttyle> Because obama. They needed no better reason.
[12:40:09] <furrywolf> because they're defective? seriously, you ever talk to a republican? heh
[12:40:17] <archivist> doesnt your car insurance cover you in an accident
[12:40:38] <archivist> fix your damned gov
[12:40:40] <os1r1s> archivist: Because it raises insurance premiums for everyone
[12:41:06] <furrywolf> no, normal car insurance only covers other people, not you.
[12:41:21] <monttyle> Even here in Canada, it's very hard to prove that an accident actually caused your bad back or that it's bad enough to need treatment / keep you off of work.
[12:41:23] <furrywolf> her car insurance needs to cover me. they will, of course, try to get out of paying it.
[12:41:24] <archivist> other car hit you charge them
[12:41:26] <os1r1s> archivist: Mine swelled 20-30% because of obamacare. And that is consistent with other large companies.
[12:41:31] <Sairon> hmmm
[12:41:40] <Sairon> aren't you... required to have health insurance now?
[12:42:00] <furrywolf> no. it's still unaffordable for people who work for a living.
[12:42:11] <ssi> but how can that be?
[12:42:23] <Sairon> uh. so the people that have insurance don't work for a living?
[12:42:23] <monttyle> os1r1s: Your lack of health care was already more expensive than most other countries' healthcare by far. There's middlemen of middlemen of middlemen that'll have to be cut out before you can begin to approach parity. The US has taken the first steps, I hope, but has a long way to go.
[12:42:24] <os1r1s> Sairon: You are, but where you get it changes.
[12:42:26] <ssi> the ACA has got "affordable" right in the name!
[12:43:15] <os1r1s> ssi: It extended coverage to people that weren't covered by corporate insurance policies. So more people have insurance. But the insurance companies just raise the premiums so that they can cover the additional people.
[12:43:45] <ssi> perhaps the sarcasm filter isn't sensitive enough in here today
[12:43:52] <os1r1s> :P
[12:44:29] <furrywolf> ssi: read up on "doublespeak". you can ask at the ministry of truth.
[12:44:46] <ssi> fwiw, the US healthcare pricing phenomenon is a byproduct of the third party payer strategy to begin with
[12:44:53] <ssi> further insulating the consumer from the prices isn't the way to fix that
[12:45:09] <archivist> I also thought the "public" hospitals over there were supposed to fix you up to an extent free or very late paying
[12:45:22] <ssi> see also milton friedman's four types of spending
[12:45:38] <Sairon> oh hell, he mentioned milton friedman
[12:45:41] <Sairon> it's all over now
[12:45:48] <ssi> what, is that like some new kind of godwin's law?
[12:45:56] <Sairon> lol. might be
[12:46:17] <ssi> "Oh no! someone's making a reasoned argument using actual economic theory rather than FUD!"
[12:46:35] <Sairon> i've noticed some folks get rabid when you start pulling out your choice of economist
[12:46:41] <Sairon> especially with friedman
[12:46:48] <furrywolf> archivist: anything other than I'm-unconsious-with-blood-spurting-out gets you in the hospital's "we don't care unless you have insurance" category, where you may never receive treatment, and it's a very, very, very expensive.
[12:47:01] <furrywolf> the hospital is required to treat you... they're not required to do it any time soon, properly, or affordably.
[12:47:33] <os1r1s> You can actually pay $1 per month to a hospital toward your bill and they have to accept it.
[12:47:50] <archivist> why the whole world is trying to emigrate here :(
[12:49:02] <furrywolf> archivist: because you have curry there
[12:49:24] <archivist> and the NHS
[12:49:31] <ssi> furrywolf: tim curry, that is
[12:54:27] <ssi> well that was a showstopper
[12:55:27] <Sairon> heh
[12:55:33] * monttyle rethinks their 1-rail CNC to avoid rotating joints. http://burningsmell.org/images/crazycnc6.gif
[12:56:01] <ssi> omg that's a fantastic domain
[12:56:16] <monttyle> I knoew ;)
[12:56:21] * ssi jelly
[12:56:47] <furrywolf> ?
[12:56:53] <monttyle> !
[12:57:13] <ssi> although if it were mine it might raise too many questions
[12:59:14] <archivist> you want burninghouse.com :(
[12:59:47] <archivist> is it fised yet?
[12:59:52] <archivist> fixed
[12:59:57] <ssi> partially
[13:00:10] <os1r1s> Has anyone compiled the simulator version of linuxcnc lately?
[13:00:13] <ssi> sheathed, wrapped, trimmed, windows and doors go in this week
[13:00:23] <ssi> interior framing is done, roof is done, electrical and plumbing are roughed in
[13:00:46] <furrywolf> sounds like you're building a house, not fixing one.
[13:00:52] <ssi> yeah pretty much
[13:01:07] <ssi> started with a foundation and framing
[13:01:36] <furrywolf> I'm supposed to be helping someone fix a house, but being crippled means it's not happening.
[13:01:58] <furrywolf> it has tweakers living in it... about the same effect as a fire, except the plastic pipe is still left.
[13:02:08] <archivist> I was delivering windows today
[13:02:10] <furrywolf> s/had/had
[13:02:16] <furrywolf> s/has/had
[13:03:00] <ssi> I need some 8" diameter 4130 roundbar
[13:03:49] <_methods> big stuff
[13:03:51] <ssi> yeah
[13:03:55] <furrywolf> to fix it, he had to gut all the remaining drywall, fixtures, cabinets, etc, etc, etc... nothing left but bare framing... and the plastic pipe, because they didn't bother ripping it out, lacking scrap value.
[13:04:04] <ssi> I need to remake my prop crush plate and maybe extension
[13:04:06] <_methods> what you making with that?
[13:04:11] <ssi> they're aluminum, I want to make them in steel
[13:04:15] <ssi> should be almost 3x the weight in steel
[13:04:17] <_methods> how thick?
[13:04:37] <ssi> I'm not sure yet... if I just do the crush plate, I need to weigh what I currently have and do the math to see how much weight I actually need
[13:04:41] <ssi> maybe 1"
[13:04:42] <furrywolf> isn't weight bad?
[13:04:51] <ssi> yeah, but aft CG is worse
[13:04:54] <_methods> might be cheaper and easier to get someone to cut that out of plate
[13:05:05] <ssi> yeah might be... I'd have to turn it afterward though
[13:05:07] <_methods> i don't think we have any 1" 4130 though
[13:05:19] <ssi> mcmaster sells 6" 1/2" discs and 1" discs
[13:05:21] <ssi> 4140
[13:05:25] <ssi> $49 and $70 respectively
[13:05:32] <ssi> but I did the math on a 1/2" 6" disc and it's like 4lb
[13:05:39] <ssi> which probably isn't nearly enough :P
[13:06:04] <furrywolf> move some other part of the plane forwards? battery, fuel,...
[13:06:11] <ssi> battery is already on the firewall
[13:06:25] <ssi> fuel isn't something that can be moved... it's part of the wing structure
[13:06:34] <ssi> ELT could be moved forward but it's a lot of work for minimal gain
[13:06:42] <ssi> tailwheel could be a bit lighter, but I doubt that'll help much
[13:06:43] <Rab> monttyle, implementing your own KAOS armature? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd90UfgGv0
[13:06:48] <ssi> I need to do the math on tailwheel lightening
[13:06:50] <_methods> i'll see if we have 4140 1" layin around
[13:06:53] <furrywolf> move the wings back. :P
[13:06:58] <_methods> you just want an 8" disc?
[13:07:04] <archivist> stuff some air bag at the back of the tanks
[13:07:05] <ssi> _methods: don't do anything until I do the math to see exactly what I need :)
[13:07:09] <_methods> kk
[13:07:21] <ssi> archivist: I kinda need the capacity :)
[13:07:26] <_methods> well i'll go see what 4140 plate we got layin around
[13:07:30] <ssi> oke
[13:07:32] <furrywolf> mount the engine on spacers.
[13:07:39] <archivist> hehe
[13:07:45] <ssi> that'd require remaking the cowl
[13:07:49] <archivist> file some off the tail
[13:07:53] <monttyle> Rab: ...apparently I've been building an inside-out one.
[13:07:57] <PetefromTn_> slide your seat forward?
[13:08:01] <ssi> seats are fixed
[13:08:11] <archivist> wear lead boots
[13:08:15] <ssi> that'd work
[13:08:27] <ssi> although I already have a hard time keeping my feet on the pedals when I'm upside down
[13:08:32] <ssi> lead boots would make that VERY hard :D
[13:08:33] <_methods> just avoid the water landings
[13:08:51] <ssi> I can bolt some lead to the engine mount
[13:08:56] <ssi> but I think a heavy crush plate is more effective
[13:09:02] <ssi> plus it'll give me some inertia on the prop
[13:09:12] <monttyle> Rab: I don't quite see how that works, though. Everything is hidden behind it.
[13:09:13] <ssi> I have a 12lb wood prop right now, very light, and it doesn't run remarkably smooth at low idle
[13:09:54] <furrywolf> and you don't like my suggestion of moving the wings back? :P
[13:09:56] <ssi> tonight I'll do the math and figure out exactly how much moment I need in order to get the cg inside the aft aerobatic limits at zero fuel
[13:10:10] <ssi> moving the wings back would actually make it worse!
[13:10:42] <ssi> it'd move the cg forward but it would also drastically reduce the tail effectiveness
[13:11:08] <furrywolf> how do you figure? you're moving the center of pressure rearwards, relative to the cg...
[13:11:35] <furrywolf> drastically, or slightly? :P
[13:11:37] <DaViruz> shorter tail moment arm?
[13:12:07] <ssi> yeah exactly
[13:12:21] <ssi> the cg limits are related to the center of pressure of the wing
[13:12:57] <Rab> monttyle, so assuming nomenclature of two Y-axis rail 'pods' riding on one Z-axis rail, I believe each pod is using Bell-Everman "ServoBelt" drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh-AUPAWbPc
[13:13:01] <ssi> you want the cg forward of the center of pressure, so you have a forward pitching moment... the tailplane provides downforce to counteract the pitching moment
[13:13:09] <ssi> when the cg moves aft of the cp, you get divergent stability
[13:13:34] <ssi> the force the tail applies is obviously proportional to the arm
[13:13:34] <furrywolf> moving the wings back moves the cp back... it moves the cg back too, but not as much.
[13:13:48] <Rab> monttyle, so there's one belt running the length of the rail, and each Y-rail uses a stepper driving against the belt.
[13:13:55] <ssi> sure, but it reduces the tail moment by a fair bit
[13:14:18] <monttyle> Rab: I see, I see. And moving them relative to each other moves the tool.
[13:14:21] <furrywolf> by, what, a quarter inch? how far off is your cg? you're talking about a 4lb weight making a difference. :P
[13:14:23] <ssi> also there's the slight issue that you can't move the wings back in any reasonable way without completely redesigning the airframe
[13:14:45] <furrywolf> well duh. :P
[13:14:53] <PetefromTn_> Machining sacrificial jaws always seems like wasted time SIGH
[13:14:53] * furrywolf suggested it as the least practical option
[13:15:01] <ssi> it's definitely the least practical option
[13:15:08] <Rab> monttyle, correct. I'm using the mfg/trade names for the stuff since they're under patent; searching for those terms will give you lots more info.
[13:15:09] <_methods> until you do the job again
[13:15:15] <_methods> then you have those wonderful jaws
[13:15:25] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah I forgot that part
[13:15:48] <Rab> There's an epic thread on CNCZone or somewhere, where people discuss DIY servobelt...lemme see if I can find it.
[13:15:49] <furrywolf> I know! put in a heavier subaru motor. :P
[13:15:49] * furrywolf hides
[13:16:12] <ssi> that'd certainly help!
[13:16:24] <Rab> monttyle, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linear-and-rotary-motion/59570-forum.html
[13:16:32] <ssi> I ought to scan some of the logbook pages from this airplane for your amusement
[13:16:38] <ssi> the guy that built it, used the logbook almost like a damn diary
[13:16:40] <archivist> helium balloons in the rear fuselage
[13:16:53] <DaViruz> ssi: what plane?
[13:16:55] <ssi> archivist: I don't even know how that would work tbh :D
[13:17:02] <ssi> archivist: would the cg change when inverted?
[13:17:12] <ssi> the physics are mind bottling
[13:17:12] <archivist> no
[13:17:20] <ssi> DaViruz: the RV6 I bought
[13:17:20] <furrywolf> lol
[13:17:24] * monttyle is building it shaft-drive, since I care more about strength than speed, but the idea is the same, two motors on one rail pressing against a wedge.
[13:17:25] <DaViruz> oh
[13:17:37] <DaViruz> didn't know you bought one, cool
[13:17:44] <monttyle> And if you can patent that, a freakin' wedge... what can't you patent :p
[13:17:50] <ssi> furrywolf: he put a bunch of notes in the logs about a cross country he did
[13:17:55] <ssi> this was when it still had the subaru on it
[13:18:04] <ssi> he averaged 115mph on 6.9gph
[13:18:15] <ssi> and that was his 75% power cruise
[13:18:25] <ssi> now, to put those numbers in perspective
[13:18:40] <ssi> with the lycoming 150hp that's on there now, and a horribly inefficient underpitched prop,
[13:18:43] <furrywolf> seems it'd have two effects... first, it'd make the tail weigh less, in any orientation. of course, unless you have a seriously huge tail, you won't be able to fit much helium in it, so the actual weight reduction would be negligable. the secondary effect would be preventing you from putting any cargo or passengers in the same space, which definitely helps keeping the cg forwards...
[13:18:57] <ssi> my 75% power cruise is 178mph on 8.0gph
[13:19:06] <Rab> monttyle, you can buy steppers intended for Delta robots which have an acme-threaded bore going straight through the stepper. That might work well for this application.
[13:19:11] <ssi> at 115mph, I bur 3.2gph
[13:19:27] <ssi> there's no passengers or cargo in the tail anyway
[13:19:32] <ssi> and there's a pretty fair amount of space in the tailcone
[13:19:49] <ssi> be interesting to calculate the volume and do a thought experiment about what exactly it'd do
[13:20:10] <furrywolf> I can't imagine you getting more than a couple ounces of lift that way.
[13:20:15] <archivist> burst when you get to altitude error
[13:20:20] <DaViruz> it'd probably break havoc if they were to burst
[13:20:35] <Rab> But rack and pinion would probably work just as well.
[13:20:50] <ssi> shouldn't burst at altitude because it'd be constrained by the metal fuselage structure
[13:21:06] <ssi> it just would provide less force because the differential against the ambient pressure would be less
[13:21:55] <monttyle> Rab: Yep, I've got some shipping already. I'm combining one captive motor with one non-captive motor.
[13:22:11] <furrywolf> is your fuselage back there pressure-rated? :)
[13:22:25] <ssi> nope!
[13:22:30] <furrywolf> because, what, 8psi depending on how high your plane can go? :P
[13:22:50] <ssi> 15,000' DA is half pressure I believe
[13:22:54] <ssi> so 7.5psi ambient
[13:22:57] <archivist> vacuum
[13:23:36] <furrywolf> so my guess of 8psi is pretty close. :P
[13:24:04] * furrywolf has no idea what the ceiling of ssi's plane is
[13:24:21] <ssi> I dunno what the ceiling is either but it's probably at least 15k
[13:24:30] <ssi> lemme see what vans' numbers say
[13:24:55] <ssi> they list the ceiling with 150hp as 19,300'
[13:25:03] <ssi> with 180hp they list 25,700'
[13:25:12] <_methods> is the cabin pressurized?
[13:25:12] <ssi> I have 150hp on mine
[13:25:14] <ssi> neg
[13:25:22] <_methods> you wear a mask up there?
[13:25:30] <ssi> yea above 12,500' you need o2
[13:25:32] <_methods> over 12,500
[13:25:34] <_methods> yeah
[13:25:36] <ssi> usually just a nasal cannula tho
[13:25:36] <_methods> i was gonna say
[13:25:43] <_methods> yeah up to 15k
[13:25:45] <_methods> you should be good
[13:25:53] <_methods> depending on medical condition
[13:25:54] <ssi> I have cannula and one mask
[13:26:16] <_methods> over 15k you better know what hypoxia feels like lol
[13:26:27] <ssi> just wear a pulse oximeter
[13:26:30] <ssi> they're cheap
[13:26:39] <_methods> people get stupid when it sets in though
[13:26:44] <_methods> if they're not familiar with it
[13:27:30] <furrywolf> looking at that servobelt thing, they're using the teeth on the belt as a rack, and the teeth on the other side of the belt to drive against it? so if you glue the belt down, you don't have any belt stretch?
[13:27:53] <furrywolf> if they're at that altitude without preparing, they started out stupid.
[13:28:31] <_methods> people that play at those altitudes usually have a diff view on that
[13:29:35] <furrywolf> taking your plane to a height where you might need supplemental oxygen without supplemental oxygen is not evidence of a good decision making process.
[13:30:03] <_methods> said plane is usually full of skydivers egging said pilot on
[13:30:14] <_methods> maybe some boobies involved also
[13:30:23] <Rab> furrywolf, there are two belts meshed together, one glued to the rack. The belts unmesh only where the stepper engages the top belt.
[13:31:10] <furrywolf> yeah, I figured that. :P
[13:32:10] <Pudlo> Is it possible to use belts to reduce the speed of a shitty high speed router to work better as a spindle?
[13:32:23] <Pudlo> Or would you spend more or good belts than a proper spindle…
[13:32:25] <Rab> Allegedly has a few engineering wins over a simple rack setup, tooth engagement being the big one.
[13:32:45] <furrywolf> my plan for a plasma table is to use aircraft cable on cylindrical fusees...
[13:33:02] <Rab> Pudlo, it's totally possible. But you might need a fair amount of reduction, depending on the final speed you need.
[13:33:17] <furrywolf> Pudlo: sure. many machines belt-drive the spindle. the only drawback is you have to build your own bearing assembly capable of dealing with the cutting forces and belt tension.
[13:34:23] <Rab> Routers are typically around 30K RPM, so if you need eg 5-7K for cutting aluminum you'll need a fairly large pully.
[13:34:25] <archivist> some even had variomatic pulleys in the head
[13:34:55] <archivist> and a more rigid frame
[13:35:07] <Rab> Pudlo, you'll need something analogous to this: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/
[13:35:23] <furrywolf> is a fusee still a fusee if it's cylindrical?
[13:35:35] <Pudlo> Rab: hot damn that's a nice piece of work
[13:35:36] <archivist> something safe for wood may the breaking tools at a slower speed on aluminium
[13:35:36] <Rab> That didn't cost me very much, but took some time to build.
[13:35:41] <Rab> Pudlo, thanx g
[13:36:04] * furrywolf bets archivist can answer this
[13:36:34] <archivist> I know a fusee, define cylindrical
[13:36:53] <archivist> fusee is a special shape
[13:37:12] <furrywolf> a half-round groove around a cylinder
[13:37:38] <Pudlo> Rab: what kind of belt is that, and where did you get your pulleys from?
[13:37:41] <furrywolf> serving the same purpose of a fusee, to wrap a cable or chain neatly in the groove, but without the taper and changing diameter
[13:37:56] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/P3150762.JPG
[13:38:13] <Rab> Pudlo, MXL, standard small-scale stuff. I scavenged the pulleys from scrap equipment.
[13:38:45] <archivist> a plain barrel can be grooved the same and often was, no longer called a fusee though
[13:38:54] <furrywolf> that is, is there a special name for a continuous groove around the outside of a cylinder with a cable wound into it? :)
[13:39:08] <archivist> helix
[13:39:58] <archivist> most 8 day clocks had that
[13:40:04] <Rab> Pudlo, it's intended for micro tooling under 1/4" dia. Reducing the speed of a router will give you a lot of torque; if you want to transmit that to the toolhead you might investigate heavier belts like HTD, GT3, etc.
[13:40:16] <furrywolf> the guy on craigslist with the plasma table refuses to answer me, so the plan is still building my own.
[13:40:38] <Rab> Belts/pulleys/etc are easy enough to source from eBay or Amazon if you can spend a few dollars.
[13:40:54] <furrywolf> be warned HTD pulleys are hard to find in the US, because metric is evil.
[13:41:11] <Connor> archivist: What is that ? A clock mech ?
[13:41:26] <Pudlo> Rab: Okay, cool. Yeah, I was looking at aliexpress. I'd probably have to do a multi-stage reduction to get this router to a decent speed. Might still work though.
[13:41:43] <furrywolf> I went through this with my machine, and ended up going with standard imperial timing belts due to unavailability of metric parts.
[13:41:59] <archivist> furrywolf, out of focus http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=237&subject=9525
[13:42:11] <archivist> Connor, yes
[13:42:28] <Connor> archivist Why is the drum like that? instead of just a cylinder?
[13:42:29] <furrywolf> yeah, like that. :)
[13:42:30] <Rab> Shrug, Amazon sells HTD belts with Prime order fulfillment. China has cheap HTD pulleys.
[13:42:54] <Rab> furrywolf, which pitch do you nominate as a preferable substitute?
[13:42:56] <archivist> furrywolf, better http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=381&subject=9669
[13:43:03] <furrywolf> archivist: a fusee has the shape it does to linearize the non-even force of a spring.
[13:43:04] <furrywolf> grr
[13:43:06] <furrywolf> Connor:
[13:43:30] <archivist> Connor, to compensate for the varying spring tension with amount of wind
[13:43:42] <Connor> ok
[13:44:13] <archivist> somewhere on the server is the text to explain the curve
[13:45:04] <furrywolf> Connor: when a spring is fully wound, it pulls with a lot of force. when the spring is almost unwound, it pulls with barely any force. while the ideal clock escapement would run at the same rate regardless of applied force, the real-world has reality applied to it. so, to compensate for changing spring force, the diameter changes, like a variable reduction.
[13:45:29] <furrywolf> the larger diameter is when the spring has the least force, and the smaller diameter when the spring has the most force, giving constant torque.
[13:47:12] <furrywolf> archivist: I saw a funky spring a while ago... it was a long strip with a curve to it, like the blade on a tape measure, wound between two wheels geared together, one flat, one curved. the flattening of the curve formed into the strip seemed to provide the storage....
[13:47:15] <furrywolf> any idea what that's called?
[13:47:35] <furrywolf> it provided a constant force for the entire length
[13:47:54] <archivist> tensator
[13:48:13] <archivist> or that is the trade name
[13:48:40] <furrywolf> never seen it before or since. :)
[13:48:48] <archivist> used in barriers and other pull out devices
[13:49:52] <furrywolf> hrmm, doesn't seem to work like that. I think this one used the curve in the strip and a crowned pulley...
[13:50:11] <archivist> you will have seen barriers pulled out to enclose delineate an area in a bank or shop etc
[13:50:48] <furrywolf> but, yeah, the overall mechanism does look the same. maybe the crowned version was just a refinement.
[13:52:10] <furrywolf> it was in a crank-powered generator... you crank the big spring for a while, then it runs the generator at a constant speed.
[13:54:21] <monttyle> sounds like an old gramaphone.
[13:54:54] <archivist> fusee maths http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=rawlings
[13:55:15] <cradek> those were just a spring and a centrifugal governor
[13:55:33] <cradek> (amazing how well that works)
[14:18:54] <stb> greetings to all
[14:19:29] <stb> is there someone here with up-to-date knowledge about the status of xenomai + lcnc?
[14:20:25] <cradek> linuxcnc runs under rtai or rt-preempt kernels, not xenomai
[14:20:55] <stb> well, there's the xenomai runnable version in git, but it is a bit old
[14:21:31] <stb> and that pertains to my question, apparently there is no interest to support xenomai in future releases?
[14:21:32] <cradek> yeah there may be an old branch - it's unmaintained
[14:21:49] <cradek> well it sounds like there's some interest (you)
[14:21:56] <cradek> nobody I know of is working on it
[14:21:56] <stb> well, yes
[14:22:08] <cradek> why do you want that?
[14:22:10] <stb> that's what i was afraid of
[14:22:26] <stb> i've been playing with xenomai and rt-net
[14:22:31] <stb> for obvious reason
[14:22:38] <cradek> not obvious to me
[14:22:48] <stb> :)
[14:23:08] <cradek> really
[14:23:12] <stb> well, the point ofcourse is to get ethernet support/control
[14:23:12] <cradek> what's your overall goal?
[14:23:32] <cradek> we already have ethernet control using rt-preempt kernels
[14:23:38] <stb> well, i'm pretty fed up with the parallel port and proprietary thingy
[14:23:45] <stb> using the mesa card?
[14:24:03] <stb> well, i was coming to that... as a second question
[14:24:03] <cradek> yes I think mesa has several options
[14:24:19] <stb> and mister epler has been doint that
[14:24:23] <stb> doing
[14:24:39] <cradek> what's your overall goal?
[14:25:11] <stb> well, as I said, I want to have my mills controlled solely via ethernet
[14:26:15] <stb> and as i said, i have a set up with xenomai+rt-net+linuxcnc that is up and running
[14:26:28] <stb> the only thing is to do my own driver
[14:26:44] <stb> however, since you brought it up
[14:27:15] <stb> i just installed for a test the 2.7 with the pre-empt wheezy
[14:27:55] <stb> i do get pretty horrible jitter on that
[14:28:19] <stb> anyway, is there any benchmarks on that rt-preempt and ethernet
[14:28:37] <skunksleep> Xenomai and rt-net was a pain. And only supported a few nice. Rt-preempt is a lot more flexible.
[14:28:47] <skunksleep> What is horrible?
[14:28:56] <stb> skunksleep: yes, i know, it was a pain
[14:29:50] <stb> skunksleep: the latency test gives max jitter values close to 100000ns
[14:30:22] <cradek> actually that's probably fine, < 10% of the servo cycle
[14:30:55] <stb> i haven't tried all the tweaks etc, you could probably make it work, however, i was more interested how well the ethernet is working with the pre-empt thingy
[14:31:05] <cradek> you might find some bios settings that would improve it
[14:31:15] <stb> cradek: yes, those are to be tested
[14:31:28] <cradek> I haven't tried it but people keep reporting good results with hm2 eth on rt-preempt
[14:31:43] <skunksleep> Idle=poll kernel line seems to help me.
[14:31:57] <cradek> I use the mesa pci cards because I've been using them for years and years
[14:32:14] <skunksleep> I have had good luck with a 7i80
[14:33:20] <stb> skunksleep: and what kind of latency do you have?
[14:34:33] <skunksleep> I have tested it with a lot of hardware. Anywhere from 30us to 80us.
[14:35:02] <stb> okay, so the ethernet keeps up with that, good to know
[14:35:51] <stb> okay then, i'll have a go with the pre-empt kernel and checkout eplers work
[14:36:03] <skunksleep> Peter from mesa has machines running 3 to 4khz servo periods for months testing
[14:36:22] <stb> okay, that sound pretty good
[14:36:56] <skunksleep> 2.7 + has rt-preempt support
[14:37:22] <stb> yep, i just installed that
[14:37:30] <stb> on wheezy
[14:37:56] <stb> however, got disheartened by the jitter figures
[14:38:03] <stb> never seen such a high jitter
[14:39:11] <skunksleep> Rt-preempt isn't rtai.. You wouldn't use it for software stepgen stuff
[14:39:36] <stb> yep, that's the problem
[14:39:45] <skunksleep> Great for servo loop only stuff
[14:40:55] <skunksleep> Why is that the problem? If you are using Ethernet surely you are doing hardware stepgen?
[14:42:36] <stb> we'll the thing is that i had some testing/development ideas and was unsure how well the pre-empt actually work
[14:42:55] <stb> and i meant that the problem is that pre-empt != rt
[14:44:14] <skunksleep> Ah
[14:44:38] <stb> i haven't delved that deeply in to the pre-empt thing, yet
[14:45:19] <cradek> there are probably more than a few people using it
[14:45:35] <stb> cradek: you mean pre-empt?
[14:45:35] <cradek> not as many as pci interfaces under rtai, of course
[14:45:53] <cradek> yes ethernet with the rt-preempt kernel
[14:46:43] <cradek> you seem hesitant to use the work that's already done and known to be working...
[14:47:42] <stb> not really, as i said, i just downloaded the pre-empt+wheezy for evaluation
[14:48:10] <cradek> aha
[14:48:15] <stb> but as skunksleep said, there might be some issues e.g. the step gen with the pre-empt
[14:48:35] <cradek> you shouldn't do software stepgen on rt-preempt
[14:48:41] <cradek> why do you think you want to do that?
[14:48:48] <stb> exactly
[14:49:21] <cradek> do you think you want to send individual step pulses over ethernet? that doesn't seem like a plausible design.
[14:49:41] <stb> exactly, it doesn't
[14:49:47] <cradek> you're baffling me
[14:49:51] <skunksleep> Said differently.. You cannot do software stepgen over ethernet
[14:49:52] <cradek> I don't know what your goal is
[14:49:56] <stb> :)
[14:50:03] <cradek> I am not sure you do either :-)
[14:50:23] <stb> okay...
[14:50:36] <stb> skunksleep: probably so, but what is the reason for that?
[14:51:17] <stb> cradek: exactly, i'm exploring the choices i have
[14:51:32] <stb> and what can be achieved
[14:53:40] <skunksleep> Just going by the mesa hm2-eth read write times.. Not taking into account the latency. You would be limited to a few khz step frequency.
[14:54:45] <stb> yes, what do you think is the limiting factor for the read write times?
[14:55:16] <skunksleep> That is above my pay grade...
[14:55:52] <os1r1s> stb: I'd guess the latency induced by the network stack.
[14:56:30] <stb> os1r1s: that's my guess too
[14:57:23] <stb> still, would like to know the exact bottleneck
[14:57:30] <os1r1s> stb: Many enterprise software vendors introduced their own protocols and stack to improve latency.
[14:58:00] <os1r1s> For clustering operations and what-not
[14:58:13] <stb> you mean like ethercat and like
[14:58:16] <skunksleep> What do you mean by parallel port and proprietary thingy?
[14:58:29] <os1r1s> So I'm assuming something could be done, but nothing is going to come close to a real pin you can hit
[14:58:51] <_methods> yes ethercat
[14:59:07] <stb> i mostly mean that the hardware is proprietary, mesa is nice since it's fpga and afaik you can do your own hdl
[14:59:10] <cradek> with a parallel port you can set an output pin and generate a step pulse with one instruction
[14:59:55] <cradek> if you want some more complex interface you give up on making software step pulses, and that's a VERY good thing because software stepgen kind of sucks
[15:00:30] <os1r1s> stb: I'd not heard of that one, but that looks like a good example.
[15:01:11] <stb> cradek: yes, but what exactly do you then recommend instead?
[15:01:21] <stb> os1r1s: er.. what do you mean?
[15:01:32] <_methods> he was saying yes to ethercat
[15:01:36] <stb> okay
[15:01:37] <_methods> it is a good example
[15:01:39] <os1r1s> stb: ethercat is a good example
[15:01:42] <os1r1s> Yes :)
[15:01:50] <_methods> it is THE example
[15:02:14] <stb> yes... it is... but it's not that different from your basic ethernet
[15:02:52] <stb> and for example, with rt-net, you can drop all the problematic stuff, like collision detect and make it deterministic
[15:03:14] <stb> for example, you could send raw ethernet frames point-to-point
[15:03:38] <stb> the only question i guess is what would be the round trip time in that case?
[15:03:48] <stb> which i guess i have to test to find out
[15:04:14] <_methods> you could probably email someone involved in ethercat
[15:04:20] <_methods> but sure test away
[15:04:50] <stb> :) yes, i will test it
[15:05:03] <cradek> linuxcnc and ethercat are hard to combine because of details of their stupid license
[15:05:39] <cradek> again, hm2-eth is already done and working
[15:05:43] <stb> cradek: that's part of my point in the proprietary thingy, besides the hw thingy
[15:05:50] <cradek> if you're building hardware, make it compatible with that
[15:06:18] <cradek> stb: I don't understand. what is your entire point?
[15:06:25] <stb> cradek: yes, but as skunksleep said, it's geared towards servo, and what do you do if you have need for steppers
[15:06:36] <cradek> skunksleep didn't say that
[15:06:49] <cradek> you use a hardware stepgen like is already done and working
[15:07:01] <cradek> was that your actual question all along?
[15:07:49] <stb> what exactly do you mean by hardware stegpen?
[15:07:51] <cradek> linuxcnc has supported hardware stepgens for ... probably nearly 20 years?
[15:08:10] <Tom_itx> stb, it's generated from a fpga
[15:08:23] <Tom_itx> from commands sent to it
[15:08:38] <Tom_itx> rather than sending the pulses out the parallel etc port
[15:08:51] <stb> yes and you send say, speed or absolute position on ethernet etc and the fpga generates the steps?
[15:09:03] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[15:09:04] <cradek> yes exactly
[15:09:16] <Tom_itx> at a much higher frequency
[15:09:18] <cradek> or over a pci slot or pci-e slot or epp
[15:09:36] <stb> okay, and what would you recommend in a case where i have say couple of servos and a couple of steppers?
[15:09:47] <Tom_itx> a mesa card
[15:09:59] <cradek> totally
[15:10:07] <Tom_itx> 5i25, 7i90 etc would do it
[15:10:18] <Tom_itx> lots of them will
[15:10:33] <_methods> pcw recommended to me the 7i76 and the 7i77 i think
[15:10:35] <Tom_itx> just depends on your configuration as to which one you want
[15:10:40] <_methods> to save on the 5i25 combo
[15:10:45] <stb> okay
[15:11:01] <_methods> for stepper servo combo
[15:11:03] <PetefromTn_> Oh nice my Anodizing materials shipment came in from Caswell Plating...
[15:11:17] <Tom_itx> i'm using the 7i90 because i'm still sending my commands out the parallel port to it
[15:11:28] <stb> still, i hope you can bare with my curiosity here, how does the hw-stepgens work?
[15:11:37] <stb> i haven't really studied this
[15:11:40] * Tom_itx gives PetefromTn_ a hasmat suit
[15:11:56] <cradek> some take position commands and some take velocity commands
[15:12:00] <cradek> some can take either
[15:12:02] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: When you dump the acid in the tank, it likes to splash.
[15:12:06] <os1r1s> FWIW
[15:12:20] <stb> and then they generate the pulses per some algorithm they have
[15:12:22] <cradek> every servo cycle you command a position or velocity, and read back the actual feedback position
[15:12:37] <PetefromTn_> you always add the acid to the water as I recall
[15:12:41] <stb> okay, that's what i thought
[15:12:47] <cradek> yes then they make nice smooth pulses until the next servo cycle
[15:12:51] <Tom_itx> mine are sending out 40k pulses per sec
[15:13:02] <Tom_itx> iirc
[15:13:17] <Tom_itx> maybe that's per rev? i forget now
[15:13:18] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: You do, but it still splashes going in
[15:13:30] <cradek> the pulse rate just doesn't matter anymore once you have this design
[15:13:40] <Tom_itx> absolutely
[15:13:46] <stb> still one more question, is there some other downsides to sw stepgen?
[15:13:58] <Tom_itx> lower rates
[15:14:09] <cradek> it's really only useful with a direct parallel port connection
[15:14:14] <Tom_itx> more resources taken from the pc
[15:14:28] <Tom_itx> slower performance
[15:14:29] <cradek> it has no upside except it's free
[15:14:30] <stb> Tom_itx: lower rates because of what?
[15:14:32] <PetefromTn_> I should think the splashing would be determined by the manner in which it is added ;)
[15:14:48] <Tom_itx> because you can only send them out the port so fast
[15:15:17] <Tom_itx> the fpga typically runs at 50Mhz
[15:15:30] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_: I thought so too. But when I poured the acid into the tank, it splashed. And the clothing it splashed upon developed holes.
[15:15:38] <Tom_itx> and can parallel process
[15:16:04] <PetefromTn_> I got extra jeans ;)
[15:16:05] <stb> yes, i've done some fpga stuff myself
[15:16:29] <stb> hmm, okay
[15:16:52] <Tom_itx> it's a no brainer once you've used one
[15:16:56] <stb> yep
[15:17:17] <stb> well, uh oh, i wouldn't say hdl is exactly easy, but
[15:17:48] <Tom_itx> no brainer meaning the choice of parport over a mesa card
[15:18:08] <stb> but to recap, my last question, hopefully; if you could
[15:18:15] <stb> Tom_itx: ah :)
[15:18:23] <Tom_itx> beside that, the 7i90 gives you 72 io
[15:19:07] <stb> if you had an ethernet based system, in which you could do servo and sw stepgen for say a 9 axis machine, that would not be of interest to anyone?
[15:19:48] <Tom_itx> hardly think it can be done more efficiently
[15:20:11] <cradek> it's not clear to me that software stepgen over ethernet is *impossible* but it's certainly very inferior to the system we already have
[15:20:39] <stb> cradek: you just forced me to ask more
[15:20:46] <cradek> I did no such thing
[15:20:49] <stb> :)
[15:20:51] <Tom_itx> hah
[15:20:51] <PetefromTn_> It would seem to me to be real hard to beat a mesa card setup with HW stepgen but I am certainly no expert
[15:21:31] <stb> okay, the hw stepgen presumably has some algorith that does the generation of steps
[15:21:31] <Tom_itx> it offloads the work to the card so the pc doesn't have as much to do
[15:21:43] <stb> yes
[15:22:24] <Tom_itx> so how many more ways are you gonna ask the same thing?
[15:22:45] <stb> but is it of no concern that there is one trajectory planner in lcnc and then some form of a linear etc planner in the fpga etc hw
[15:22:54] <Tom_itx> because the answer will be the same
[15:23:27] <cradek> bbl
[15:24:29] <Tom_itx> read about hostmot2
[15:24:58] <stb> what about it?
[15:25:15] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
[15:25:32] <Tom_itx> that tells you the supported functions
[15:28:26] <stb> okay
[15:29:13] <stb> presumably the sw stepgen in lcnc is simply moved to the mesa hw
[15:29:40] <Tom_itx> you wouldn't use sw stepgen with the driver loaded
[15:30:07] <stb> yes, i meant that the sw functionality is moved to the mesa hw
[15:30:13] <Tom_itx> yup
[15:30:20] <stb> okay
[15:35:42] <skunksleep> stb: AFAIK no one is doing software stepgen over Ethernet. No one.
[15:36:22] <stb> okay
[15:37:04] <stb> can't say i expected someone would
[15:43:34] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ i know you don't care for circle track but you should see the last lap wreck they had
[15:44:41] <XXCoder> drat
[15:44:44] <XXCoder> someone dinged me
[15:44:48] <XXCoder> anyway heys
[15:45:07] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah
[15:45:12] <PetefromTn_> Not watching it
[15:45:36] <PetefromTn_> I just received my deburring wheel for my bench grinder I oredered.
[15:46:01] <PetefromTn_> Looks like I chose the right one because it seems to work exactly like the ones we used in the shop locally so WIN!!
[15:46:26] <PetefromTn_> great for polishing steel finishes and works on ally too
[15:47:14] <Tom_itx> the engine was laying in the infield
[15:47:25] <PetefromTn_> DOH!
[15:47:35] <JT-Shop> which one did you end up getting?
[15:49:59] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop Me?
[15:50:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:50:10] <PetefromTn_> hang on..
[15:50:28] <JT-Shop> I need a 8" deburring wheel for my belt grinder
[15:51:33] <PetefromTn_> yeah no this is a 6"x1" deburring wheel made by 3M part number 64900...
[15:52:08] <PetefromTn_> it has a 1" arbor hole but i just made some spacers and aligned it by eye
[15:52:43] <PetefromTn_> Works really good and does not damage parts too easily unless you are a hamfist
[15:52:46] <ssi> I use scotchbrite wheels like that all the time
[15:52:55] <PetefromTn_> yeah they are really nice
[15:53:18] <ssi> they're part of standard toolkits for building aluminum airplanes :)
[15:53:24] <PetefromTn_> this is a 9S fine wheel
[15:53:35] <ssi> I use mostly medium wheels
[15:53:50] <PetefromTn_> they can take away subtle tooling marks quickly too which is nice
[15:53:52] <ssi> they're aggressive enough that you can move metal if you bear down on it, but fine enough that you can polish with a light touch
[15:54:02] <PetefromTn_> yup exactly
[15:54:08] <PetefromTn_> are yours the red ones?
[15:54:18] <ssi> when I polish aluminum, I do light passes with the scotchbrite and then a cloth wheel with rouge
[15:54:21] <ssi> no, grey
[15:54:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah the red are I believe slightly more aggressive as I recall
[15:54:44] <ssi> I guess tehy're "light", not medium
[15:54:45] <ssi> http://www.cleavelandtool.com/3M-Light-Deburring-Wheel-6/productinfo/3MW77S6/#.VZrluc7G4UE
[15:54:48] <PetefromTn_> thats what I do too
[15:55:01] <Tom_itx> red, green, white in order of abrasiveness
[15:55:07] <Tom_itx> not sure about grey
[15:55:20] <PetefromTn_> damn I paid half that much for this one
[15:58:32] <JT-Shop> if it says aircraft anywhere it's double
[16:09:25] <furkanyilmaz> Hi all I forgot my linuxcnc login password. How can I recovery it
[16:09:37] <furkanyilmaz> ?
[16:11:07] <cradek> the answer will be the same as for whatever version of linux you are using
[16:13:50] <furkanyilmaz> Hmm ok I solve it
[16:14:04] <furkanyilmaz> But the bad thing is it was too easy :)
[16:14:21] <malcom2073> Linux is easy like that.
[16:14:33] <furkanyilmaz> Fuck the windows
[16:14:36] <furkanyilmaz> :)
[16:14:43] <malcom2073> Windows is the same way
[16:14:47] <cradek> it's no surprise that physical access to a machine gives you access to it
[16:14:48] <malcom2073> Well, not *same*, but just as easy
[16:14:50] <tswartz> what am i missing to get my spindle feedback to show on gmoccapy?
[16:15:29] <tswartz> shows fine in axis display, just not gmoccapy
[16:15:33] <furkanyilmaz> But if some other people want to change password( not me another people) its easy for them too
[16:15:51] <furkanyilmaz> Is there a anyway to make this pw more secure
[16:16:01] <Tom_itx> change the password?
[16:16:48] <cradek> if you give enemies physical access to a machine, you can not meaningfully secure it
[16:18:03] <furkanyilmaz> Ok
[16:18:13] <furkanyilmaz> I will search about it at google first
[16:18:24] <furkanyilmaz> Writing to right here wasnt good idea
[16:20:17] <malcom2073> IOW: We weren't giving him the answer he wanted.
[16:20:37] <cradek> I thought he said he solved it
[16:21:06] <cradek> furkanyil> Hmm ok I solve it
[16:21:09] * cradek shrugs
[16:21:27] <XXCoder> some languages it means I will solve it
[16:21:34] <Deejay> gn8
[16:21:38] <cradek> oh maybe I misunderstood
[16:21:47] <cradek> furkanyil> But the bad thing is it was too easy
[16:21:56] <cradek> no, I think he got it reset
[16:22:05] <XXCoder> sounds like yeajh
[16:26:24] <PetefromTn_> what would a 10 second pause line look like DOH
[16:49:01] <PetefromTn_> eh found it
[16:58:07] <furkanyilmaz11> What should I enter leadscrew values for joint axis' callibration. My joint axis making one rev when I send 500 pulse. How should I callibrate it?
[16:58:43] <furkanyilmaz11> There are some parameters about leadscrew's pitch and teeths but my axis is joint, Anny suggests?
[16:58:59] <PetefromTn_> isn't there a little calculator in the program or in Pncconf or Stepconf I can't remember
[16:59:48] <furkanyilmaz11> My axises is working well in my configuration
[17:00:04] <furkanyilmaz11> Should I open new stepconf again?
[17:00:16] <furkanyilmaz11> Sorry about my bad english
[17:05:58] <PetefromTn_> are you talking about a fourth axis?
[17:07:09] <furkanyilmaz11> No, Delta robot
[17:07:28] <PetefromTn_> okay you are way over my head then sorry hehe
[17:07:41] <furkanyilmaz11> No problem bro :)
[17:08:31] <furkanyilmaz11> I think machine just need to know how much pulses needed for one rev. But there are more configs
[17:09:19] <furkanyilmaz11> So I just want to know how should I enter for other parameters
[17:13:26] <PetefromTn_> Damn Grilled Cheese left....and I was just getting hungry ;)
[17:21:44] <furkanyilmaz11> andypugh welcome, I have a question and I think thats your expertise :)
[17:22:23] <furkanyilmaz11> Is that scale parameter in .ini file is pulses per rev value for joint axis
[17:22:25] <furkanyilmaz11> ?
[17:22:31] <andypugh> I got the new MB to biit from CD. I got it to the end of the Ubuntu 12.04 installer. It rebooted. And rebooted, and…
[17:23:15] <andypugh> furkanyilmaz11: Technically the SCALE in the INI is anything the HAL file wants to use it for.
[17:23:59] <andypugh> Your HAL file _could_ Use SCALE to set the G-code units. But that would be silly.
[17:24:09] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo just received my tracking number from Captainhindsight for my Black, Magenta, Cyan, and Yellow dies. This should be getting interesting around here pretty soon.
[17:24:16] <andypugh> So, yes, typically INI file “SCALE” is pulses per engineering unit.
[17:25:02] <furkanyilmaz11> andypugh then how should I callibrate my joint axis? I think machine just need to know how much pulses needed, so there are no parameter needed I think for joint axis I think. But how can I enter the stper per rev value?
[17:25:13] <furkanyilmaz11> Umm ok
[17:25:31] <furkanyilmaz11> So that means I will set the scale value right?
[17:25:37] <andypugh> If you are talking about steppers, then it is pulses per mm or pulses per inch.
[17:26:08] <PetefromTn_> he has a delta robot andy
[17:26:14] <furkanyilmaz11> I am talking about open loop servo so its communucating with pc same as stepper
[17:26:28] <andypugh> Ideally you would look at the INI file and see exactly what the HAL file is using it for, but stepgen.scale is pulses per inch or mm (depending on machine units)
[17:27:08] <furkanyilmaz11> ok let me to take a look
[17:27:11] <andypugh> If it’s a Delta robot, then it might be pulses per rev or pulses per degree (even possibly, pulses per radian)
[17:27:24] <furkanyilmaz11> Yes I know
[17:27:44] <furkanyilmaz11> If I enter the pulses per rev value
[17:28:01] <furkanyilmaz11> Or pulses per degree value its gonna be ok
[17:28:12] <furkanyilmaz11> But I have no idea about where to enter it
[17:28:13] <andypugh> You probably need to look inside the kinematics file to see whether it is expecting the input in degrees, radians, or revolutions.
[17:28:44] <furkanyilmaz11> Ok I will take a look the kin file and hal file
[17:28:54] <furkanyilmaz11> I will back in 5 min
[17:29:05] <andypugh> You can, if you want, set the values direct in the HAL file. I tend to, on my own configs.
[17:29:09] <andypugh> Your choice.
[17:29:56] <furkanyilmaz11> How?
[17:31:48] <furkanyilmaz11> in hal file there is a line like setp stepgen.1.position-scale [AXIS_1]SCALE
[17:33:08] <furkanyilmaz11> I think that means I should set the SCALE parameter in .ini file. But is it per rev or per deg
[17:36:07] <andypugh> I can’t tell if it is revs or degrees. You could always try both..
[17:36:55] <furkanyilmaz11> ok I am tryiing right now
[17:37:09] <andypugh> [AXIS_1]SCALE in the HAL file means “Look in the ini file for a value, and use it here”. You can use numerical values directly, and you can also create your own INI file sections and entries to be used in the HAL file, if you want.
[18:13:22] <furrywolf> grrr. one of the batteries on my 12v bus self-destructed.
[18:13:53] <XXCoder> hey
[18:14:05] <XXCoder> what happened? self discharge internally?
[18:14:09] <furrywolf> noticed the dc-dc converters whistling, then heard hissing... found one of them happily venting itself onto its terminals.
[18:14:26] <furrywolf> probably a shorted cell
[18:14:43] <furrywolf> they're old. I bought them from the scrapyard maybe six years ago...
[18:14:49] <furrywolf> and they were close to a decade old then!
[18:24:43] <XXCoder> lol
[18:57:10] <Valen1> hey archivist, how would I find out what the ideal beat frequency for that clock would be? the rear door is missing and there doesn't seem to be any info
[18:57:54] <Valen1> its running at 2.91 or so per second now, would 3 be a common target?
[20:35:19] <jfindley> Hello
[20:35:38] <andypugh> Hi
[20:36:34] <andypugh> Do you have a question, or just being sociable?
[20:36:48] <jfindley> I've got lots of questions =)
[20:37:07] <andypugh> We have lots of answers. Some accurate.
[20:38:41] <jfindley> So I'm trying to see if I can get into a CNC mill suitable for etching printed cricuit boards for less than $5000. Figured since I'll be doing all of my work in Arch, this may be a good place to ask for guidance.
[20:38:47] <XXCoder> hey
[20:40:05] <andypugh> Well, you can definitely do it for less than $5000
[20:40:07] <jdh> yes.
[20:40:13] <XXCoder> jfindley: strightforward is just buy chinese cnc engrave machine
[20:40:14] <XXCoder> few k
[20:40:42] <XXCoder> not too sure on resolution but im sure its suffecent for normal circuits
[20:40:45] <andypugh> But I question whether it is worth it when PCBs cost about $1 each from China and take about 10 days to arrive, with resist, plating, screen print etc.
[20:41:01] <jfindley> I'm very much new to CNC stuff, but I got a delta 3d printer a while back and have had a blast with it. I supposed I could use it for PCB etching, but I want to keep using it for printing
[20:41:35] <jfindley> andypugh: I'm an idiot up until the point I stop being one... Trial and error has gotten me to where I am today, and probably will continue to do so.
[20:41:38] <andypugh> You can 3D-print resits onto copper board and etch traditionally.
[20:42:01] <andypugh> (resist)
[20:42:54] <jfindley> I already etch PCBs using the methods described by http://www.pulsarprofx.com/ but it takes a good few hours to make one board, and with my cheap chinese drill press, I have a larger than i'd like failure rate.
[20:43:18] <Rab> You can buy an LPKF off eBay for well under $5K.
[20:43:18] <jfindley> plus the chemicals are just nasty...
[20:43:19] <Tom_itx> so do SMT then
[20:44:06] <andypugh> One of these, but using LinuxCNC, might do all you want. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3020-DESKTOP-3-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVING-DRILLING-MILLING-ENGRAVER-MACHINE-NEW-/200721798773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebbf39675
[20:44:30] <XXCoder> just $500 yeah
[20:44:36] <andypugh> (just a random example, not a recommendation)
[20:44:37] <furrywolf> yay, rebuilt eu3000is seems to work.
[20:44:39] <XXCoder> small but circuits usually isnt that big
[20:45:01] <furrywolf> how should I break it in? my first guess is to randomly apply loads between idle and full throttle, changing every few minutes.
[20:45:07] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: :)
[20:45:31] <SpeedEvil> Rebuilt the head?
[20:45:32] <XXCoder> furrywolf: if I recall from cars, its better to avoid hard accerations while breaking in
[20:45:50] <andypugh> Right, I need to sleep. It has been a trying evening.
[20:46:04] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: night
[20:46:15] <andypugh> I am likely to fall asleep dreaming of hitting UEFI motherboards with axes.
[20:46:34] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: brand new head (and all components contained within), honed cylinder, new rings, new head gasket, new head bolts, cleaned carb, muffler off a different unit, and lots of little things.
[20:46:40] <furrywolf> andypugh: shotguns work well too
[20:46:46] <furrywolf> hrmm, brb, it just unloaded.
[20:46:51] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: I'd guess light load for a bit
[20:48:17] <furrywolf> apparantly the heater I was using as a test load has a bad thermostat.
[20:48:35] <furrywolf> since it's declaring sitting in the foggy outside ambient temperature to be above its maximum.
[20:50:03] <furrywolf> I got it for $1 at a yard sale. I might just jumper the thermostat.
[20:50:46] * SpeedEvil puts on 'Disco inferno'
[20:50:46] <furrywolf> at near full load it's smoking a bit, but I think it's just burning old oil out of the exhaust, as it lags behind the load... that is, it starts smoking a bit after the load is applied, and stops a bit after the load is removed.
[20:51:43] <furrywolf> it sounds pretty healthy. the choke linkage rattles, might fix it with an o-ring between the moving parts to keep them from rattling.
[20:51:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:52:12] <XXCoder> nice
[20:52:47] <furrywolf> the first time I started it, it started revving high and belching black smoke... took me a couple seconds to realize I'd forgotten one of the carb stepper cables. d'oh.
[20:56:09] <furrywolf> also, I have two nuts left over.
[20:56:22] <furrywolf> I _think_ they went with the front rubber feet, but I'm not positive.
[20:56:26] <furrywolf> I hate when that happens. :)
[20:56:58] <furrywolf> that's about the only place this size nut is used, and I switched the feet around at some point.
[21:00:04] * SpeedEvil imagines the head suddenly pinging through the ceiling.
[21:00:51] <SpeedEvil> Left over nuts are annoying.
[21:04:11] <XXCoder> hey spare parts lol jk
[21:11:33] <archivist> Valen, whatever makes the clock keep time
[21:12:00] <os1r1s> jfindley: I have a little mill that I use for milling PCBs. It works great!
[21:12:11] <os1r1s> If you have any specific questions
[21:12:27] <XXCoder> os1r1s: which mill
[21:12:46] <XXCoder> not planning on circuits just curious.
[21:13:11] <os1r1s> XXCoder: I use one called a widgitmaster mini
[21:13:36] <os1r1s> XXCoder: http://mounicou.com/wm/pcbmill2.jpg
[21:13:45] <os1r1s> Thats an old pic of the mill
[21:13:48] <archivist> Valen, sometimes it was an odd number just to make the pendulum short enough to fit a case
[21:13:52] <XXCoder> almost spelled widget master mini lol
[21:14:22] <os1r1s> XXCoder: The size is perfect, which is why I wanted it
[21:14:30] <jfindley> os1r1s: That looks perfect!
[21:14:31] <Valen> archivist I was hoping to use app in the phone to get it close without days of mucking about ;->
[21:14:38] <XXCoder> its niely sizefd for circuit
[21:15:12] <os1r1s> Yeah, and its high quality. The guy who sold them took great care in machining them.
[21:15:29] <os1r1s> jfindley: I put a wolfgang spindle on it and it rips through PCBs
[21:15:45] <XXCoder> os1r1s: weird! I clicked to see pricing info and it says page not found
[21:16:07] <archivist> Valen, once upon a time some clock timers came with a table of numbers for popular models.... and a formula so you can work it out
[21:16:10] <os1r1s> jfindley: A shitty example cut from a while ago ... http://mounicou.com/i2cpcb/i2cpcb3lgt.jpg
[21:16:35] <os1r1s> XXCoder: He hasn't made them in years. I stalked ebay for this one
[21:16:41] <XXCoder> oh
[21:17:08] <jfindley> How much did you pay for it?
[21:17:28] <archivist> Valen, measure, check percentage error over a fixed period, calculate percentage change needed to beat, adjust
[21:17:33] <os1r1s> jfindley: Are you going to make me an offer :)
[21:17:48] <jfindley> os1r1s: Would you sell it if I did? =)
[21:17:51] <XXCoder> I bid $1
[21:17:54] <XXCoder> heh
[21:19:16] <jfindley> Think something like this would do the job? http://www.amazon.com/Zen-ToolworksTM-Carving-Machine-7x7/dp/B002ARTLUG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436234159&sr=8-1&keywords=cnc+engraver
[21:20:07] <XXCoder> 7"x7"x2"
[21:20:13] <XXCoder> pretty small
[21:20:18] <os1r1s> The PVC frame is the killer there
[21:20:27] <XXCoder> jf whats your usual circuit size
[21:21:31] <XXCoder> jfindley: if your budget is < $5000 I would suggest get slightly larger one
[21:21:41] <XXCoder> it will be STILL under $1000
[21:21:58] <XXCoder> going minimal will regret it
[21:22:14] <jfindley> usually about 2 square inches. I'm trying to figure out how to produce these things fast, with revisions, to get something I like, then I'll need to bulk produce them, but I'm OK with outsourcing that part.
[21:22:37] <XXCoder> jfindley: can design multi-part holds
[21:22:53] <os1r1s> jfindley: Thats exactly what I did. I made 4 iterations of a circuit on my dining room table in the course of an evening.
[21:23:03] <os1r1s> (My wife was not happy)
[21:23:26] <XXCoder> yummy copper siciline pepper for meals
[21:23:53] <jfindley> Heh... My wife gave me the garage, the shed in the back, and my office. Between the three, I can get a lot done without ruining her fine dining area.
[21:23:53] <os1r1s> hehe
[21:24:19] <XXCoder> :)
[21:24:30] <XXCoder> man cant wait to get my machine working!
[21:24:40] <archivist> I did without the wife part and us any room I like :)
[21:26:00] <os1r1s> jfindley: Traces were a a bit big on this revision, but here it is cutting ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcsK8LkYb-M
[21:27:31] <XXCoder> ice fog
[21:27:34] <XXCoder> *nice
[21:27:39] <XXCoder> ohh
[21:27:41] <XXCoder> bucket
[21:27:44] <XXCoder> nice idea
[21:27:55] <XXCoder> too bad my machines too big for that
[21:28:26] <os1r1s> XXCoder: My other ones are too. But that works really good for deflecting any projectiles
[21:28:47] <XXCoder> still not too sure how I will handle mine
[21:31:26] <os1r1s> XXCoder: This is what I do for my desktop mill/lathe http://os1r1s.com/?p=799
[21:31:54] <XXCoder> that was what I was thinking for my cnc router.
[21:32:00] <XXCoder> would start with cardboards though
[21:32:10] <os1r1s> That is 1/4" thick lexan
[21:32:13] <os1r1s> :)
[21:32:15] <XXCoder> 8020 beams eh
[21:32:22] <os1r1s> I think it will take a bit to go through
[21:33:15] <XXCoder> it just needs to block vision lol
[21:33:38] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtq48VjrulE WOW
[21:36:35] <XXCoder> big allright
[21:38:19] <cradek> wow that groover
[21:38:48] <XXCoder> so, PetefromTn_, when will you get me one lol
[21:39:09] <PetefromTn_> I know right some of the hangover on those tools is unbelievable...
[21:39:17] <PetefromTn_> Look like a foot long
[21:39:37] <PetefromTn_> wonder what the HP is on that main spindle
[21:39:52] <XXCoder> pretty big im sure
[21:41:33] <XXCoder> over a foot, wonder how they control runout
[21:41:58] <PetefromTn_> love the big five axis gear hobber at the end
[21:43:42] <XXCoder> holy crap
[21:43:48] <XXCoder> that drill must be 3 foot long
[21:43:55] <XXCoder> or in least 2
[21:49:13] <PetefromTn_> yup
[21:49:38] <XXCoder> I bet they really had to check runout
[21:49:45] <XXCoder> probably using dial and hammer
[21:56:44] <XXCoder> spline:
[21:56:49] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil:
[22:02:35] <toastydeath> PetefromTn_: i had a question from yesterday - you'd mentioned seeing good machines made out of steel
[22:05:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[22:05:19] <XXCoder> LOL!! http://gizmodo.com/oh-god-someone-ran-fear-and-loathing-through-googles-n-1716036990
[22:05:21] <toastydeath> do you remember what makes/types?
[22:05:32] <PetefromTn_> there are lots of them why?
[22:05:38] <toastydeath> i am curious because I've never seen a machine tool made out of anything but cast iron
[22:05:45] <toastydeath> metalworking machines out of steel, yes
[22:05:47] <toastydeath> but never machine tools
[22:05:50] <PetefromTn_> I'm sitting here running one as we speak
[22:05:55] <toastydeath> what make/model?
[22:05:58] <toastydeath> (if you don't mind)
[22:06:04] <PetefromTn_> Cincinatti Arrow 500
[22:06:23] <PetefromTn_> the entire base and column is a weldment
[22:06:31] <PetefromTn_> the millhead is a casting tho
[22:06:51] <PetefromTn_> as I recall there are some Fadals that are built similarly
[22:07:06] <toastydeath> yeah, there are a lot of fadals built that way but they're all relatively terrible
[22:07:21] <XXCoder> I use a fadal
[22:07:50] <XXCoder> its okay for what I usually use it for but it sucks generally
[22:07:51] <PetefromTn_> then mine must be terrible too
[22:07:55] <XXCoder> its kickback is .001
[22:07:58] <XXCoder> huge
[22:08:17] <toastydeath> a machine can be terrible and still be usable, it depends on the price point
[22:08:21] <toastydeath> i.e. haas
[22:08:35] <XXCoder> I'd rather have haas than fadal I use
[22:08:47] <XXCoder> but same time haas has no value add/subtract
[22:08:52] <XXCoder> just value input which sucks.
[22:09:21] <toastydeath> i will still look to see if i can find anyone doing new things with steel construction, there may be ways of damping it
[22:09:46] <XXCoder> toastydeath: I saw someone using granite epoxy to act as damp and mass
[22:09:59] <toastydeath> but when I was making air bearings we were fairly close to several machine manufacturers and the opinion was unanimous
[22:10:20] <toastydeath> steel's weldable and easy to manufacture fast, but sucks to high heaven for any sort of dynamic response
[22:10:41] <toastydeath> XXCoder: yeah, that stuff's actually better than iron for the bulk of the machine
[22:11:01] <toastydeath> several mfgs are/were looking into it but the problem is finishing it
[22:11:13] <XXCoder> I still want to mix up epoxy granite for fun
[22:11:17] <XXCoder> make some statues
[22:11:26] <XXCoder> lamp or 2 even
[22:11:31] <XXCoder> why not?
[22:11:35] <toastydeath> heavily damped lamps, i approve
[22:11:42] <toastydeath> excellent cutting performance
[22:11:45] <XXCoder> lol
[22:11:55] <XXCoder> for looks
[22:12:31] <toastydeath> nope
[22:12:36] <toastydeath> Tool and die lamps
[22:13:05] <toastydeath> Metrology lamps.
[22:13:07] <toastydeath> there you go
[22:13:11] <toastydeath> that's how you market them
[22:13:21] <XXCoder> yeah market isnt what I plan to do with em
[22:13:27] <XXCoder> just for home use
[22:14:36] <toastydeath> oh fine
[22:15:15] <toastydeath> i want to play with EG for surface/reference pieces, apparently with the right aggrigate mix it CAN be ground
[22:17:26] <cradek> > I keep a set [of those multi-fingered tap removers] handy, in case I ever break off a tap in a block of Velveeta cheese.
[22:17:36] <toastydeath> hahahah
[22:24:10] <toastydeath> i'm lucky, I only ever used one tap remover and it's worked every time so far
[22:26:08] <XXCoder> toasty I guess tool would wear out, grinding new surface
[22:29:41] <toastydeath> not sure what the issues are, tbh
[22:29:46] <toastydeath> ONE DAY I WILL FIND OUT!
[22:30:11] <toastydeath> First: up, find one of the Pacemakers that have a 2000 rpm gearbox
[22:30:17] <toastydeath> cuz fuck yeah
[22:33:54] <PetefromTn_> Woohoo made 40 beautiful parts today including two new designs and using two different sacrificial jaw setups... not bad for a one guy shop I guess..
[22:34:05] <toastydeath> hot!
[22:36:34] <PetefromTn_> well it is for me anyways... If I am making proven program parts I have made before I can do a lot better but these were the first time I ever made these parts
[22:36:43] <furrywolf> grrrrr. I think it might be developing a rod knock.
[22:37:28] <PetefromTn_> that bites
[22:37:50] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: nice
[22:39:31] <furrywolf> I really, really don't want to pull it apart again. especially not to throw another set of rings at it, plus a piston and con rod...
[22:39:44] <furrywolf> it doesn't burn any oil, at all...
[22:41:25] <furrywolf> it's also developed quite a valve tick, but I guess that's to be expected when you first run a new head.
[22:41:28] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully I can get these deburred and I have to do a drill and tap in another fixture setup for them tomorrow. Then hopefully I will receive the anodizing dyes on Wednesday and I can try my hand at this whole anodizing thing...
[22:41:54] <PetefromTn_> With any luck I can ship them by the end of the week...crossing fingers!!
[22:42:34] <furrywolf> don't use your shiny parts to test the annodizing process.
[22:43:05] <PetefromTn_> actually I make these in three different sizes now.
[22:43:20] <PetefromTn_> One of them I have three pairs of prototypes from sitting here
[22:43:47] <PetefromTn_> they will be a really good stand in for a new one and should give me a good dry run as far as size and amount of current etc...
[22:44:22] <PetefromTn_> Looking forward to being able to offer these in four different sizes all anodized and engraved with my logo LOL at some point anyways
[22:45:23] <PetefromTn_> I swear it takes me forever to make the first ones....subsequent ones should go rather quickly now that I have proven programs and I realized several areas where I can improve cycle times that I have already adjusted a bit..
[22:45:45] <PetefromTn_> Once I make the final adjustments and run the next batch things should go considerably faster.
[22:45:52] <PetefromTn_> hopefully anyway
[22:47:51] <PetefromTn_> http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2515851-huge-crash-takes-out-riders-on-stage-3-of-the-tour-de-france?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
[22:47:58] <PetefromTn_> Damn that does not sound good...
[22:49:47] <PetefromTn_> that was a BAD wreck apparently Cancellara broke his back....damn
[22:50:33] <furrywolf> the downside to riding a half inch from the person in front of you
[22:51:47] <PetefromTn_> honestly I am amazed there are not more deaths and serious paraplegic and quadraplegic injuries from the race. Some of the wrecks look really bad. They are often going pretty damn fast as you said within inches of each other.
[22:58:58] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: usually due to very good belt system as well as other stuff
[22:59:22] <XXCoder> its been suggested to replace the usual cross belt + over shuolder one with one from racing
[22:59:27] <XXCoder> which is MUCH more secure
[22:59:30] <XXCoder> but it never happened
[23:00:39] <PetefromTn_> sorry I don't know what you are talking about...
[23:01:10] <XXCoder> its hard to explain but defnitely different secure system for holding person in seat
[23:01:18] <XXCoder> almost like baby seat type
[23:01:24] <XXCoder> maybe why it havent spread :P
[23:02:07] <toastydeath> XXCoder: iirc racing seats cause a shitload of neck injuries/deaths if you're not wearing a hans device
[23:02:18] <XXCoder> ok
[23:02:22] <toastydeath> the antisubmarine belts
[23:02:32] <toastydeath> 5 and 6 point
[23:02:56] <PetefromTn_> I thought we were talking about bicycle racing?
[23:03:07] <toastydeath> oh. well, i'm retarded!
[23:03:12] * furrywolf thought we were talking about bicycle racing too
[23:03:14] <toastydeath> that's what i get for tabbing over
[23:03:27] <XXCoder> oh thought you guys was talking about car racing
[23:03:33] <XXCoder> nm then lol
[23:03:34] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[23:05:03] <PetefromTn_> https://www.facebook.com/OfficialFunniestCrazyVideo/videos/505058756318912/ interesting....kinda nutz too
[23:07:54] <XXCoder> thats awesome. too bad unplayable for me
[23:07:57] <furrywolf> hrmm. just tested a yard sale toaster I got a long time ago. it and I seem to have a rather different opinion of what a "3" on a 0-10 scale means. I consider 3/10 to be lightly toasted. it considers 3/10 to mean the result is 3/10ths carbon...
[23:08:21] <XXCoder> probably why it was in yard sale
[23:18:16] <PetefromTn_> i've bought a half dozen different toastrs over the years none of which worked the way I expected
[23:18:48] <furrywolf> too many buttons. how is "Reheat" mode different from "Defrost" mode different from "Bagel" mode different from "Normal" mode? lol
[23:19:34] <XXCoder> furrywolf: from what I recall, defrost has specific pattern of pluses
[23:19:40] <XXCoder> so it melts without warming too much
[23:19:45] <XXCoder> rest dunnop
[23:25:25] <furrywolf> no pulsing according to my inverter. perfectly steady draw...
[23:26:20] <XXCoder> hmm ok
[23:27:17] <XXCoder> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110325195310AAtriaG
[23:27:31] <furrywolf> I should go shopping so I'm not eating toast for dinner, but back hurts. :(
[23:28:11] <furrywolf> ... pete talks about bicycles, you talk about cars. I talk about toasters, you talk about microwaves.
[23:28:12] <PetefromTn_> order in
[23:29:12] <XXCoder> furrywolf: you started on microwave
[23:29:19] <AGR> pcw_home: I need some more help please. Still no output voltage from 7i33 for VFD. http://pastebin.com/dTieTfG6
[23:29:34] <XXCoder> toasters dont have defrost mode from what I understand
[23:30:39] <furrywolf> ... where, at any point, did I mention microwaves?
[23:31:03] <furrywolf> my toaster has buttons on the front for the modes described above. (well, it doesn't have a normal button, but it has a cancel button that turns off the other buttons)
[23:31:19] <XXCoder> defrost on toaster oven interesting
[23:31:22] <XXCoder> never saw such
[23:32:39] <XXCoder> wonder how that works
[23:33:13] <furrywolf> not toaster oven, just regular toaster.
[23:33:38] <XXCoder> one about toast (not oven) says it adjusts timing
[23:33:48] <XXCoder> so its slightly longer so it deices then toasts
[23:33:53] <Rab> Could be the same way: a pattern of pulses intended to evenly heat the bread without actually toasting.
[23:35:37] <furrywolf> http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-Toasting-Controls-7-Setting-Separate/dp/B00MR5BINY
[23:35:43] <furrywolf> <furrywolf> no pulsing according to my inverter. perfectly steady draw...
[23:37:58] <skunksleep> AGR: are you actually enabling the pwm?
[23:38:55] <PetefromTn_> AGR I know you are not wanting modbus setup but I found this which was instructions to convert my WJ200 from analog to modbus. maybe it will help..
[23:39:12] <PetefromTn_> http://pastebin.com/g2Ak9bm9
[23:40:40] <PetefromTn_> as you can see it has sections of OLD and NEW with new being the modbus stuff... Gonna have to convert back to OLD here soon LOL
[23:41:00] <PetefromTn_> guess not heh
[23:42:16] * furrywolf remembers when an automatic toasted had a pair of contacts and a bimetal strip that popped the release mechanism
[23:42:16] <furrywolf> toaster
[23:42:49] <XXCoder> sometimes old stuff last so danged forver
[23:43:54] <furrywolf> I have a strange feeling defrost simply means "double the timer".
[23:44:06] <AGR> skunksleep: the direction signal work and I can use a D cell 1.5 volt battery and drive the spindle. so its just waiting for voltage
[23:44:12] <XXCoder> one page says its bit longer but yeah dunno
[23:44:28] <XXCoder> easy enough to test, use timer and use it with and without defrost mode
[23:44:50] <skunksleep> But are you enabling the pwm gen?
[23:45:18] <AGR> out of the 7i33. look's like problem with scale statements
[23:46:28] <pcw_home> typically for spindles you scale the output with full speed in RPM
[23:46:33] <furrywolf> part of why I got this toaster was because I was hoping the defrost button DID do some fancy partial-power thing or something...
[23:46:55] <furrywolf> I get sprouted bread, and I keep it frozen... was hoping this toaster had some special feature that would toast it better...
[23:47:43] <skunksleep> AGR: what is net spindle-enable hm2_5i20.1.pwmgen.01.enable
[23:47:43] <skunksleep> Hooked to in hal?
[23:48:23] <AGR> skunksleep: pcm_home responded with the enable statement I am using. http://pastebin.com/dTieTfG6
[23:52:04] <skunksleep> AGR: spindle-enable needs to be set true... Can you post your whole hal file?
[23:52:10] <AGR> pcw_home: I think I have done that please see my file http://pastebin.com/dTieTfG6
[23:55:25] <os1r1s> pcw_home: Do the mesa cards read HEDS encoders without modification?