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[01:33:38] <Cromalious> and the cobwebs
[02:07:45] <Deejay> moin
[02:13:54] <t12> anyone know a small bay area shop that will do some 1off surface grinding
[02:27:46] <Crom> right next to mcbride hardware there was a great little machine shop in richmond.
[02:28:37] <Crom> san pablo and mcbride just behind the ampm
[02:38:22] <t12> streetview seems to say
[02:38:25] <t12> a&k machine shop
[02:38:49] <t12> i'll give them a call thanks!
[02:39:26] <t12> i was looking at warehouse space in richmond
[02:39:36] <t12> theres some neet spots and its pretty cheap for the area
[02:39:42] <t12> because people are scared of the iron triangle
[03:53:36] <Crom> hehe north richmond, used to go in there between 7:30am and we always left before 11am before the druggies got up
[03:53:48] <Crom> cleaning sewer lines
[03:54:51] <Crom> my dad lives just up the hill from there..
[03:55:07] <Crom> the A&K machine
[03:55:34] <Crom> thaat ace is one of the BEST hardware stores around
[04:02:04] <Crom> oh man they torn down the warehouses on giant road and build aparments
[04:05:36] <Crom> hmm brookside dr west of the tracks around where crown cork used to be... what kind of space you looking for? machine shop or storage?
[04:08:49] <t12> was dreaming about a shop
[04:08:52] <t12> but not really realistic
[04:09:04] <t12> became easier to dream the shop into a mini version into my existing house
[04:09:06] <t12> and just make room
[04:09:12] <t12> was getting tired of the city but got over it
[04:28:05] <Crom> Well I grew up in richmond heights (just outside the city limits on Ralston. I've lived in SF, Walnut Creek, Moraga, and Antioch.
[04:36:25] <Crom> oh and Oakland just north of china town,
[08:33:56] <MattyMatt> t12 a house is a machine for living in. The only machines you need for living are a bed, a cooker and a washing machine (assuming a machine shop already needs a kettle and shitter) so I'd be looking for a machine shop with a little bunkhouse on top. you know it makes sense :)
[08:38:45] <sysdef> .o( ...and a machine to create fancy stuff )
[08:41:55] <archivist> scale it right
http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dads_Shed.JPG
[08:43:04] <furrywolf> archivist: you'd never get planning approval for a shed like that these days.
[08:44:22] <archivist> I think buying the shed and sneaking a bed in is the easiest :)
[08:47:22] <furrywolf> heh, got a reply from the "new" battery guy... "It seams they're a little older than I thought"
[08:51:05] <furrywolf> I'm offering him $8/each. :P
[08:51:16] <furrywolf> at scrap lead value, at least I can't lose money.
[08:51:59] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Pb?
[09:04:15] <furrywolf> yes
[09:04:29] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/bpo/5100485794.html
[09:04:39] <furrywolf> "New" batteries...
[09:09:27] <jthornton> look how faded the containers are
[09:15:06] <gonzo_> furrywolf, are you talking about UK planning permission?
[09:15:15] <gonzo_> if so:
http://planningjungle.com/wp-content/uploads/Part-1-of-the-GPDO-The-10-Worst-Permitted-Development-Loopholes.pdf
[09:25:40] <SpeedEvil> She is in California
[09:30:21] <furrywolf> yes, here in california we have permits. I think archivist is in the land of planning permission, however....
[09:33:39] * furrywolf thinks both should be scrapped, and the right to do whatever the fuck you want on your own property, as long as it doesn't harm others, should be recognized.
[09:34:59] <furrywolf> that pdf claims everything shown is bad. I think that they're allowed is a good thing.
[09:43:37] <cradek> I recently visited a city with NO zoning rules. It looked like a very strange and unpleasant place to live.
[09:44:10] <_methods> you mean bangkok lol
[09:44:54] <_methods> definitely a disaster but definitely my favorite city in the world
[09:45:12] <skunkworks> people complain about the rules but complain more when the neighbors house falls over on theirs. or starts on fire and burns their house down.. or...
[09:45:36] <cradek> or the neighbor is a pig farmer or a railroad
[09:46:01] <cradek> or a parking garage
[09:46:54] <skunkworks> oil refinery?
[09:47:36] <cradek> I really like the idea of zoning, where I can buy property for a residence and have some assurance it will continue to be surrounded by residences, not factories
[09:47:53] <cradek> I think that kind of planning and cooperation is important
[09:48:13] <furrywolf> skunkworks: maybe you missed the part about "as long as it doesn't harm others"? also, structural and fire issues are entirely to do with building codes, and absolutely nothing to do with permits / planning permission.
[09:48:29] <cradek> yeah, I'm talking about zoning, not permits
[09:49:07] <cradek> but to me, the libertarian ideal of "do whatever you want with your own property" implies the lack of both kinds of protection
[09:49:13] <archivist> we have building regulations, planning and zoning (which the planners take into account when granting/denying)
[09:49:40] <cradek> fwiw, "doesn't harm others" is the idea and rationale behind both systems
[09:49:46] <furrywolf> cradek: "as long as it doesn't harm others". opening a polluting, smelly, loud factory next to someone's house probably harms them.
[09:49:47] <cradek> it's a way to codify that
[09:50:02] <archivist> and for extra, historic buildings are "listed" and need more hoops to jump though
[09:50:09] <cradek> furrywolf: sure but you have to codify it. "I feel harmed" doesn't mean anything.
[09:50:34] <furrywolf> the current system claims you're harmed because you don't like the neighbor's paint color, or because they want to tinker in their shed, or because they had an extra kid and need more room, or...
[09:50:59] <Roguish> hey all. a little help/info please. I was using gmocappy last evening. all good. but...the screen started getting 'jerky'. essentially not updating very smoothly. after an hour or so it pretty much got to where it was refreshing every 20 or 30 seconds, sometimes longer. the motion never stopped, just the screen refreshes. waz up with that?
[09:51:38] <Roguish> i've never experienced the problem before using Axis.
[09:51:50] <furrywolf> archivist: there's bullshit about historic buildings here too. in a great example, a local theater had to close its doors. why? the disability laws required them to widen the bathrooms. the historic building laws required them not to make any major changes to the structure, and the bathrooms were in the middle of the building with historic stairwells on either side. solution: close the doors.
[09:51:52] <cradek> Roguish: perhaps gmocapy has a memory leak. watch it in top.
[09:52:18] <Roguish> that's what I was thinking. now gotta gire out how to
[09:52:22] <Roguish> watch it'
[09:52:44] <archivist> is the box short on memory anyway
[09:52:57] <Roguish> no.
[09:53:25] <MrSunshine> hmm im trying to make a casting pattern in the cnc .. its 10cm thick so i need to slice it to 19mm thick sections .. now the problem .. i to cut it from one side is just fine, thing is that its hollow on the other side in a pattern and i need to route that out also with draft angles etc .. how the heck would i do that =) i guess i could figure out the slices, flip them upside down and cut out the hollow parts in
[09:53:25] <MrSunshine> slices also somehow =)
[09:54:42] <shaun413> hello
[09:54:54] <shaun413> I need a dust shoe for a cnc router
[09:54:56] <shaun413> any good designs?
[09:55:53] <furrywolf> didn't you ask that before?
[09:55:53] <Rab> shaun413, what are you using for a spindle? Someone may have already designed something compatible.
[09:55:57] <archivist> how can we possibly know
[09:56:01] <furrywolf> and get that answer before?
[09:56:03] <shaun413> its a chinese 6040 router
[09:56:19] <furrywolf> and get a link to a site with models for a bunch of designs?
[09:56:55] <archivist> I remember that reply too
[09:56:58] <greg> cradek, I ended up installing the old 2.5.x iso on my 933MHz box and upgrading to 2.7. I really need to document things better as I'd forgotten everything. I have a small problem. 2.7 doesn't like the line "loadrt pwmgen output_type=0" loadrt not recognized
[09:57:29] <Rab> That's weird-looking:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:536097
[09:57:59] <Rab> Better for airflow than most designs, probably.
[09:59:09] <shaun413> ok
[10:06:18] <_methods> MrSunshine: do you have a model of what you're trying to make
[10:08:05] <cradek> greg: pastebin the whole error?
[10:08:18] <greg> has hal language changed much since 2.5? specifically pwmgen? my spindle pwm code is no good.
[10:08:40] <greg> I fond an extra loadrt, but now it's somethign else
[10:24:55] <_methods> alright oregon is legalizing weed now heheh
[10:25:03] <_methods> 8 oz in your house and 4 plants
[10:25:35] <PetefromTn_> when are ya movin'?
[10:25:41] <_methods> hahah never
[10:25:46] <_methods> all my family lives there
[10:25:56] <PetefromTn_> visit win!
[10:26:04] <_methods> or the majority of them live in and around portland
[10:26:20] <PetefromTn_> I have always wanted to visit there after watching the Goonies movie.
[10:26:25] <_methods> hahah
[10:26:29] <_methods> yeah
[10:26:42] <_methods> i think that was filmed around newport beach maybe
[10:26:52] <PetefromTn_> ca?
[10:26:58] <_methods> newport oregon
[10:27:01] <PetefromTn_> ah
[10:27:25] <PetefromTn_> was gonna say I used to surf in Newport beach years ago and I don't recall it looking like this
[10:27:43] <_methods> haha no they have sand down there
[10:27:52] <_methods> all you get in oregon and washington is rocks
[10:28:08] <PetefromTn_> https://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/5061285050.html LOL Steampunk welder?
[10:29:05] <_methods> $1200 for a vacuum cleaner/welder
[10:29:26] <PetefromTn_> Looks really cool but I would be scared shitless to plug the damn thing in heh
[10:29:31] <_methods> good idea to combine a shopvac with your welder though
[10:29:38] <_methods> yeah it looks liek a baby dalek
[10:29:50] <_methods> exterminate
[10:30:26] <PetefromTn_> Looks like a steampunk R2D2
[10:30:31] <_methods> heheh
[10:34:37] <roycroft> if you're talking about the goonies, it was filmed in astoria and the seaside-canon beach area
[10:34:51] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[10:35:28] <PetefromTn_> I loved how the homes looked on the mountainsides and the oceanfront looks really cool/different to what I am used to.
[10:35:50] <roycroft> yes
[10:35:56] <roycroft> i've been all over tennessee
[10:36:03] <roycroft> i know for your part of the world
[10:36:20] <roycroft> and while quite beautiful in its own right, it's quite different from our coastal geography
[10:37:30] <roycroft> back in the '80s my now ex and i were vacationing with her kids in astoria, and we found the neighborhood where the goonies kids lived
[10:37:59] <roycroft> things have changed there now such that when i was last in astoria i could not find that area any more
[10:38:32] <roycroft> not that it's beel bulldozed or anything, but the usual additions/remodeling/repainting over the years has made it difficult to find the houses used in the film
[10:51:17] <PetefromTn_> I think that would be fun to try to find them. Never been there and don't have any family or reason to go really. It would also be nice to visit cape disappointment and the USCG Motor lifeboat station
[10:51:50] <PetefromTn_> I am sure there are other things to see like the space needle and stuff too.
[10:53:30] <ssi> morn
[10:54:05] <furrywolf> no answer yet after I offered the guy $8. methinks I may never get one. :)
[10:54:23] <PetefromTn_> http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Morn?file=Morn.jpg LOL I love morn...
[10:54:50] <ssi> lol
[11:08:41] <skunkworks> and backlash doesn't come up once...
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/just-built-ox-cnc-but-it-is-doing-something-strange.2159/
[11:09:51] <_methods> either that or some bad cutter comp lol
[11:11:32] <_methods> the one guy actually says it could be mechanical
[11:11:41] <_methods> he doesn't say backlash specifically
[11:16:08] <cradek> I built a machine out of drinking straws and jello and seven dremel tools, and I blame the software
[11:16:39] <cradek> (note: I don't know what his machine is)
[11:16:46] <_methods> it's a shapeoko
[11:16:47] <_methods> lol
[11:17:05] <cradek> it's a gollywaddle
[11:17:15] <_methods> yeah
[11:18:32] <_methods> hah jon stewart is inviting all his conservative enemies to his final show
[11:18:58] <cradek> well without them he'd have no funny source material
[11:19:06] <archivist> I wonder too if the flexible machine is bending
[11:19:15] <roycroft> there are plenty on the left who provide good material
[11:19:23] <_methods> yeah he basically owes donald trump his job
[11:19:24] <_methods> lol
[11:19:28] <cradek> heh
[11:19:59] <roycroft> well he is ending his show in the middle of silly season
[11:20:16] <roycroft> so yes, he's very thankful that the donald will provide him material to fill his last few weeks
[11:20:17] <cradek> yeah just as the clown car is getting full
[11:20:34] <roycroft> and he has thanked him profusely on his show on multiple occasions
[11:20:43] <_methods> hahah
[11:20:47] <_methods> i'll miss the daily show
[11:20:53] <roycroft> it's not ending
[11:20:57] <_methods> whatever
[11:20:58] <_methods> lol
[11:20:59] <roycroft> but you'll miss jon stewart
[11:21:07] <roycroft> there was a daily show before him
[11:21:08] <_methods> just won't be the same
[11:21:17] <_methods> yeah craig was alirhgit
[11:21:30] <roycroft> i miss the colbert report
[11:21:52] <roycroft> but i'm warming up to larry wilmore on the nightly show
[11:22:13] <roycroft> i did not like him at first, but i think that's just because he's not stephen colbert
[11:22:39] <_methods> i like larry but i don't like the table shows like that
[11:22:48] <_methods> never been able to get into that format
[11:22:56] <roycroft> bill maher does a good job of it
[11:23:05] <roycroft> but most folks don't do those panel shows very well
[11:23:31] <roycroft> maher succeeds because he always has a wingnut on his show
[11:23:56] <_methods> i just can't get into panel shows
[11:24:05] <_methods> not sure what it is
[11:27:02] <CaptHindsight> whatever happened to Craig Kilborn?
[11:31:07] <CaptHindsight> John Oliver has a great new show but it's on HBO
[11:32:34] <roycroft> you can watch it on youtube the day after
[11:32:40] <roycroft> and yes, it's a great show
[11:32:58] <greg> cradek, I found the problem. an invisible character in the hal file. only found it by backspacing at the beggining of the line.
[11:33:40] <greg> oh and parport was 1 in the old install now it's 0
[11:42:26] <_methods> craig thought he was famous and tried to do some stuff on his own
[11:42:50] <_methods> i think now he usually plays some sad extra part in bad movies
[11:48:27] <furrywolf> argh... I am getting really fucking sick of being useless.
[11:49:34] <MrSunshine> _methods: yeah but not on this computer, its a rectangle with a pocket on the front side and webbing on the other side =)
[11:50:02] <MrSunshine> i can post it later if i remember . .gonna go and cad on the gantrysupport later today =)
[11:50:54] <SpeedEvil> 'The Bugle' is more john oliver - and recommended - but has somewhat stalled since his HBO show
[11:50:59] <SpeedEvil> - a podcast
[11:52:23] <SpeedEvil> https://soundcloud.com/the-bugle/bugle-289-turbo-russia - was a good oe
[11:52:24] <SpeedEvil> one
[11:52:48] <furrywolf> I have too many things I need to be doing, but it hurts too much to move.
[11:53:00] <furrywolf> I should be at work right now, too. I have no money and every day I lose more not working.
[11:54:47] <SpeedEvil> :/
[11:56:00] * furrywolf usually does useful things most of the day, and really, really hates being useless
[12:18:58] <zeeshan> wow
[12:19:04] <zeeshan> sleeping in felt good. happy canada day!
[12:21:35] <furrywolf> meh
[12:22:48] * furrywolf is not happy
[12:23:32] <zeeshan> be happy
[12:25:47] <furrywolf> I'm useless. this makes me unhappy.
[12:29:23] <zeeshan> im useless too today
[12:29:25] <zeeshan> everything is closed
[12:29:28] <zeeshan> i need a needle valve :(
[12:30:26] <robinsz> PetefromTn_, one thing I forgot to mentio you need for your anodizing setup
[12:30:54] <robinsz> get a copy of Cannings Handbook
[12:30:55] <PetefromTn_> skills?
[12:31:04] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[12:31:14] <robinsz> its the bible on electro metal finishing
[12:31:36] <PetefromTn_> OK
[12:32:00] <robinsz> its like ... well ... you knowhow all electronics engineers have a copy of Horowitz and Hill ... well, platers and anodizers have Cannings Handbook
[12:32:11] <robinsz> it gives you all the secret sauce
[12:32:51] <robinsz> I have my copy here on the shelf above the bench :)
[12:33:04] <PetefromTn_> send it to me :D
[12:33:16] <robinsz> if you were in Cali ...
[12:33:37] <PetefromTn_> I used to be..
[12:33:46] <robinsz> we have a place in Ventura
[12:34:02] <PetefromTn_> Love that song
[12:34:08] <zeeshan> guys this is 2015
[12:34:19] <robinsz> it is?
[12:34:25] <robinsz> you *sure*?
[12:34:32] <PetefromTn_> and
[12:39:14] <ssi> wat
[12:39:54] <SpeedEvil> I'm holding out for it still being 1985
[12:40:42] <furrywolf> ... huh?
[12:43:43] <zeeshan> sorry back
[12:43:46] <zeeshan> its 2015
[12:43:51] <zeeshan> you follow ASM international!
[12:43:56] <zeeshan> and books are in pdf :P
[12:45:14] <furrywolf> I've had very bad luck finding books in pdf form. they're either impossible to find, or they're crap scans or otherwise useless.
[12:45:22] <zeeshan> i has ALL!!!
[12:45:34] <zeeshan> i learned this from my mentor
[12:45:43] <furrywolf> I believe the problem has more to do with publishers not updating their lawyers on the 21st century than anything to do with technology.
[12:45:58] <zeeshan> "a good mechanical engineer has the right resources"
[12:45:59] <zeeshan> lol
[12:46:09] <zeeshan> (he consults for crane companies)
[12:46:15] <zeeshan> thought that was a cool job
[12:46:33] <spline> yeah its funny when there's no mobi/epub/pdf now
[12:46:35] <spline> sucks also
[12:46:51] <ssi> gud
[12:46:59] <ssi> aoeu
[12:47:29] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Quite. I'd actually like to pay for some books in epub form
[12:47:48] <ssi> I can't make this damn servo drive enable for nothin
[12:47:58] <zeeshan> ssi
[12:48:00] <zeeshan> you ground it !
[12:48:08] <furrywolf> I won't use any format with drm... can't remember which ones that is now though. somehow every time I've found a book it's been a pdf.
[12:48:12] <zeeshan> are you working with the fanuc?
[12:48:32] <ssi> yes
[12:48:40] <ssi> not fanuc drives
[12:48:42] <ssi> amc drives
[12:48:44] <zeeshan> oh
[12:48:47] <zeeshan> which one ?
[12:48:48] <ssi> and I'm not talking about the actual enable signal
[12:48:55] <ssi> BE25A20AC
[12:49:03] <zeeshan> what are you talkin about then
[12:49:06] <zeeshan> if not the enable signal
[12:49:14] <ssi> they won't enable if the hallstates aren't valid
[12:49:21] <zeeshan> ownt
[12:49:35] <zeeshan> did you enable em by disabling hall states
[12:49:37] <zeeshan> to make sur ethe drive works?
[12:49:40] <ssi> yes
[12:49:58] <ssi> if I put it in 60 degree mode, it'll enable and lock up the motor but I couldn't make it spin
[12:50:15] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgoigmx4r6cccdo/ASM%20Metals%20HandBook%20Volume%205%20-%20Surface%20Engineering.pdf?dl=0
[12:50:31] <furrywolf> if you want amc drives, my neighbor has two eagles on the front lawn. :P
[12:50:50] <ssi> I'd prefer a gremlin
[12:50:59] <_methods> lol
[12:51:11] <_methods> chevette
[12:51:27] <furrywolf> 4x4!
[12:53:19] <zeeshan> whoops just realized there was a copyright on this
[12:53:21] <zeeshan> delete delete delete
[12:57:43] <furrywolf> ... you post a pdf then delete it before anyone can get it?
[12:58:09] <ssi> dick move bruh
[12:58:49] <robinsz> zeeshan, you don't get the same depth of secret suace that Cannings Handbook will give you
[12:59:53] <zeeshan> robinsz: have you read it
[13:00:18] <robinsz> I have seen it sometime in the past
[13:01:10] <robinsz> I'm sure it is very good
[13:01:25] <robinsz> It's like .. I am sure there are many good oscilloscopes out there
[13:01:32] <robinsz> but I have a tektronix
[13:02:06] * furrywolf has three teks
[13:05:55] <archivist> I have tek and a canning book or few
[13:06:06] <zeeshan> ofcourse you do!
[13:06:08] <zeeshan> youre the archivist
[13:09:18] <furrywolf> argh! I'm starting to get really pissed off here.
[13:09:51] <zeeshan> take a deep breath
[13:11:12] <furrywolf> that hurts.
[13:13:26] <Jymmm> dont breath
[13:14:05] <furrywolf> that has other complications.
[13:20:10] <PetefromTn_> I had a redneck neighbor that built a Gremlin drag car. It was completely black and honestly after seeing it I almost wanted one LOL. It was pretty badass!!
[13:20:45] <_methods> a polished turd is still a turd
[13:21:04] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it was a REALLY SHINY FAST ASS turd
[13:21:04] <Jymmm> _methods: makes great fertilizer
[13:21:09] <_methods> hahah
[13:22:15] <PetefromTn_> He took a lot of pride in it and built the motor from the AMC's largest small block available at the time. Car ran low nines...
[13:22:37] <furrywolf> gremlins are only 2wd. eagles are 4wd.
[13:22:50] <PetefromTn_> so?
[13:23:31] <furrywolf> so... if you want an old amc car, get the better one? :P
[13:25:12] <PetefromTn_> better is debatable here... besides the eagle was an ugly little tuss.
[13:25:32] <furrywolf> heh. I think the gremlin is one of the ugliest vehicles ever made.
[13:26:39] <Jymmm> I think you forgot about the Ford Granada
[13:27:22] <Jymmm> nm, it wasn't THAT ugly
[13:27:58] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ctamo.com/CAMO-Cars/Martin/Gremlin3.JPG Honestly it is not THAT bad... His had a big motor sticking out the hood like a matchbox car LOL
[13:29:01] <PetefromTn_> http://www.dragtimes.com/images/17843-1972-AMC-Gremlin.jpg Can't do that in an eagle methinks..
[13:30:06] <Jymmm> I've seen a 452 in a pinto stationwagon with slicks on the rear end. Also 4x 50lb bags of concrete too
[13:30:28] <Jymmm> it was damn quick too
[13:30:28] <PetefromTn_> you mean the Pinto that explodes in a rear end collision?
[13:30:41] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: no, that was hatchback,
[13:31:30] <PetefromTn_> I thought the pinto WAS a hatchback?
[13:31:32] <Jymmm> brain fart.... what do you call the light next to your front door?
[13:31:46] <PetefromTn_> a light?
[13:31:47] <Jymmm> porch light?
[13:32:01] <PetefromTn_> entryway light?
[13:32:10] <Jymmm> outdoor lighting
[13:32:19] <Jymmm> (trying to find on hd.com
[13:32:42] <Jymmm> Ah "Wall Lighting"
[13:33:22] <PetefromTn_> http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/attachments/general-bike-related-topics/219796d1305079732-check-out-link-gotta-love-japanese-customization-grimlin.jpg
[13:36:37] <JT-Shop> yea my Co2 inflater showed up
[13:41:55] <_methods> oooh sexy time
[13:43:01] <jdh> bike?
[13:43:14] <zeeshan> -lol what is that thing PetefromTn_
[13:55:35] <PetefromTn_> It's a Tremblin' Gremlin!
[13:56:23] <zeeshan> lol cool
[13:56:24] <zeeshan> :D
[13:58:48] <archivist> ew a fugly rot box
[14:03:36] <PetefromTn_> musta used eight rolls of masking tape on this damn lathe so far LOL
[14:04:08] <jthornton> what are you taping up Pete?
[14:04:22] <PetefromTn_> the lathe carcass so I can repaint it
[14:04:40] <jthornton> with duct tape?
[14:05:09] <PetefromTn_> why hell no masking tape man
[14:05:31] <jthornton> where did I get that from
[14:05:57] <Jymmm> duct tape isn't what it used to be. I still havne't found one today that sticks wirth a shit
[14:06:26] * jthornton goes out to check the pc oven
[14:06:54] * Jymmm heads to the big orange borg
[14:08:59] <PetefromTn_> running these parts right now
[14:14:10] <furrywolf> Jymmm: I have some that's nashua or something like that, seems to stick well. and gorilla tape works too.
[14:16:10] <furrywolf> bbl
[14:18:57] <greg> There's the new stuff from 3M damn near sticks to anyhting.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Scotch-1-88-in-x-35-yds-Tough-Extreme-Hold-Duct-Tape-2835-A/202023065
[14:19:32] <PetefromTn_> I thought that was the point of the original duct tape?
[15:28:23] -kornbluth.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify:
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[15:30:37] <XXCoder> pete left, but work has those and it works well
[15:30:49] <XXCoder> its somewhat soft
[15:31:03] <XXCoder> feels little bit furry :P
[15:32:05] <XXCoder> you could dent it slightly with finger but very little
[15:32:44] <Jymmm> scotchbright pads
[15:33:23] <Jymmm> toss on a die grinder and holy crap!
[15:33:41] <Jymmm> dk brown is agressive as hell
[15:34:06] <_methods> arent' the grey ones pretty aggressive too?
[15:34:14] <XXCoder> interesting. work only has dark red brites
[15:34:47] <_methods> oh nm grey is ultra fine
[15:34:51] <Jymmm> _methods: No idea, I just know they are color coded. DK BRn and Dk GRN are what I've used
[15:35:41] * JT-Shop found a rusty metal object in the yard just now... looks had forged
[15:36:05] <Rab> Tape, Duct, Nuclear Grade, Cloth
[15:36:08] <Rab> _methods, I'm sold.
[15:36:18] <Jymmm> _methods: But I will say this... there are a few missile casings out there with extra notches in them that are not on the blueprints =)
[15:36:40] <_methods> heheh
[15:37:06] <XXCoder> lol
[15:37:10] <Jymmm> _methods: It's okey though, they are on the indie, so nobody will ever know ;)
[15:37:11] <_methods> yeah mil-spec is pretty specific on that stuff so it's still made to original specs
[15:37:14] <Jymmm> inside*
[15:37:20] <XXCoder> Jymmm: as long as withinj tol
[15:37:30] <_methods> not this garbage you buy at home depot
[15:37:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Oh yeah, all passed inspection
[15:38:40] <XXCoder> nice
[15:39:11] <Jymmm> XXCoder: They never let me near the fun toys
[15:39:22] <XXCoder> lol
[15:40:17] <Jymmm> Ok, I take that back. They did let me near one toy, but never told be exactly what I was playing with.
[15:41:07] <Jymmm> I found out years later. Fuck me, had I known then what I know now, i would have been extra careful. lol
[15:42:25] <Jymmm> Does anyone have/used bear spray by chance?
[15:42:28] <XXCoder> heh hindsight is always 20/20
[15:43:00] <XXCoder> for people with some intellegce anyway
[15:43:16] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Funny that you phrased it that way ;)
[15:43:45] <XXCoder> there IS people who try again and again expecting different result
[15:43:57] <_methods> bear spray...........
[15:44:01] <_methods> lead spray
[15:44:17] <_methods> the higher the caliber the more effective
[15:44:20] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Even 20/10 wouldn't have helped...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/ALQ-144
[15:44:48] <_methods> apply lead bear spray liberally to the bear
[15:46:28] <Jymmm> _methods: GO TO JAIL, DIRECTLY TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200
[15:46:30] <XXCoder> Jymmm: interesting
[15:47:17] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Let's just put it this way... They would ground AF1 if those were not working.
[15:48:59] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Basically it just tells heat seeking missiles "I'm over here, no I'm over here, no I'm over here..."
[15:49:10] <XXCoder> yeh figured that
[15:49:25] <Jymmm> marc polo of sorts
[15:51:57] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: gonna do fuck all if it's got an imager
[15:52:40] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: It's "old tech" now, they have better toys these days =)
[15:52:53] <XXCoder> tech marches on
[15:53:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah - decoy presidents.
[16:15:37] <Chopper79> Howdy everyone!
[16:15:38] <Chopper79> Need some assistance on a little issue im having with my setup. I started out buy using the 5i20 plasma config that comes with LCNC. I am using a 5i25, 7i76, and THC-300 from Mesa. My setup is working well excluding the THC section. I have not made any changes to the THC section other then changing the board name and the offset scale in the HAL config. The problem I am having is when I ignite the plasma torch the voltage reads out on the screen but I
[16:19:00] <alex4nde1> Chopper79: your question got truncated at 'on the screen but I...'
[16:19:26] <Chopper79> but I do not get up or down movement when out of my voltage set range. It seems as iff the voltage tolerance, set voltage, and the Up/Down functions ar enot working correctly. Does anybody have any advise on this?
[16:21:32] <Chopper79> This is while cutting a part. I do not get any THC movement when out of my set voltage range. (ex: set for 145v with a 1v tolerance and torch is at 150v) The Z axis is not intercepted and adjustments are not applied to raise or lower torch head to get voltage within range
[16:23:12] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:43] <Chopper79> started with the orginal 5i20 config. Made changes to everything I needed to for my machine. Only changed the following as far as THC settings go
[16:25:45] <Chopper79> # Set up the Encoder for the THC
[16:25:46] <Chopper79> setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.counter-mode 1
[16:25:46] <Chopper79> setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.filter 0
[16:25:46] <Chopper79> net thc-vel-in hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.velocity => thc.encoder-vel
[16:25:46] <Chopper79> setp thc.scale-offset -125000
[16:25:46] <Chopper79> setp thc.vel-scale -0.00037866834
[16:26:07] <Chopper79> Changed board name and scale-offset
[16:28:12] <PCW> you may have to trace things out by putting halmeters on the various signals involved
[16:28:13] <PCW> ( you also need to set the encoder scale to 1 AFAICR )
[16:29:18] <Chopper79> is the counter mode the same thing? If so then I set it to 1 already (setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.counter-mode 1)
[16:29:42] <PCW> no, its not the same
[16:30:10] <Chopper79> oh... Where is the ecoder scale at then?
[16:31:50] <PCW> start linuxcnc
[16:31:52] <PCW> then in a terminal window type
[16:31:53] <PCW> halcmd show all > halstuff
[16:31:55] <PCW> then open halstuff in an editor
[16:32:28] <PCW> all pins,params,signal and functions are there
[16:39:54] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PACK-6-x-2-x-1-Top-Bottom-Reversible-6-Vise-Jaws-Aluminum-6RJV621A-/300712721944?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4603dffe18
[16:41:08] <PetefromTn_> Just ordered a 12 foot bar of 1x2 6061 aluminum and it was like $110.00 plus tax. ten pairs of 6" jaws is 120" or 12 feet plus the cuts so I don't know how they make any money selling these LOL
[16:43:34] <PetefromTn_> maybe I am just getting raped for materials heh
[16:47:13] <roycroft> i don't know where you ordered the 6061, but a lot of metal yards mark up retail sales as much as 150% over their jobber price
[16:48:10] <roycroft> i'm fortunate to have found the one yard here in eugene that charges roughly the same for everyone
[16:48:37] <roycroft> but the "big" one that everyone knows charges around 100% more for retail
[16:48:42] <roycroft> and the online shops are even worse
[16:51:43] <Chopper79> PCW: I checked out the halstuff and ecoder value is set to 1 already
[16:52:13] <PetefromTn_> meh I have ordered online quite a few times and my local supplier usually beats them by a good bit when you take in the shipping cost.
[16:52:21] <PetefromTn_> you still pay tax of course
[16:52:46] <roycroft> you do, but i don't :)
[16:52:54] <roycroft> we don't believe in sales tax here
[16:54:01] <PetefromTn_> no they get you some other way
[16:54:52] <roycroft> yes, we have high income tax and high proprety tax
[16:55:01] <roycroft> but neither of those are regressive taxes like sales tax is
[16:55:17] <roycroft> and it makes for easier math when you're at the store
[16:55:23] <PetefromTn_> actually they have told me if I can order more at a time they can give me better discounts
[16:55:24] <roycroft> $1.99 adds up to $1.99 at the checkout
[16:55:49] <PetefromTn_> my volume is not that high so I am usually just grabbing a bar or two at a time.
[16:56:02] <roycroft> that's my situation
[16:56:17] <roycroft> which is why i'm so happy i found the metal yard that doesn't charge more for small orders
[16:56:22] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully once I can get this anodizing going it will attract more sales and I can change that.
[16:56:54] <roycroft> welding gas outfits do that price gouging too, btw
[16:57:06] <roycroft> but i found one that charges everyone the same price
[16:57:35] <roycroft> what used to be a $28 fill of a 10# co2 tank (plus about $9 in extra "fees") now costs me $13
[16:57:52] <roycroft> which is what large volume customers pay at the $28 outfit
[16:58:10] <Jymmm> I've been paying $17 for Nitrogen 40, Called around places want a $9 hazmat fee on top - bastards
[16:58:25] <roycroft> i forget what all the fees are that the first outfit charge
[16:58:42] <Jymmm> $17 is out the door price
[16:58:56] <roycroft> there's a filling fee, bottle inspection fee, "state hazmat fee" (which the other place doesn't charge), and i think something else
[16:59:15] <Jymmm> Fuck that BS
[16:59:27] <roycroft> yes
[16:59:33] <roycroft> the place i go to now doesn't charge any of that
[17:00:01] <roycroft> now the downside is that the place i go to now is run by a bunch of grumpy old men, while the old place is full of attractive, nice women
[17:00:18] <roycroft> but i'll tolerate grumpy old men once in a while to save a significant amount of money
[17:00:37] <Jymmm> roycroft: Spend the money you save on fees at the strip club
[17:00:58] <roycroft> i mean, i can still hang out on this channel when furrywolf is around, so obviously i can tolerate grumpy old men
[17:01:35] * roycroft admits that he can be the "get off my lawn" guy once in a while himself
[17:04:03] <PetefromTn_> huh never pegged furry as a grumpy old man... grumpy definitely but an old man. missed that
[17:04:09] <spline> when I first got my mig, I called 4 places about the std 75/25 mix
[17:04:43] <spline> asked each owning/renting a 20/40/60 - long story short: own it and a 60. once you go from a 60->80, you jump up a ton, even though fill = only a little more
[17:04:52] <Computer_barf> anyone have any imaginings of how one might attach an inkjet head to a cnc machine and get it working? it would be so nice to cut something out and then print on it
[17:05:02] <spline> so I wound up @ airgas here (southern nh) for 143 for a 60cf 75/25 (free first fill) and each fill (core swap with them) is $43
[17:05:27] <spline> not sure if its the same everywhere.. but they were $40 cheaper than maine oxy (local chain here in nh/mass) and a really local place that was $60 more
[17:06:05] <spline> most inert gasses are about the same, when I checked getting an oxy/propane setup (for the o2)
[17:06:14] <Jymmm> spline: Nitrogen 40 exchange $17. Nitrogen 125 exchange $26
[17:06:41] <Jymmm> It's the labor to get the gas in the bottle you're paying for =)
[17:06:43] <spline> yeah, same on the 80s for a 75/25
[17:06:53] <spline> the 60 was 143 for own; 220 for an 80
[17:07:02] <spline> but the fill on the 60 is 43 and 53 on an 80
[17:07:08] <spline> so if you use a ton, is the 80 worth it? sure
[17:07:24] <spline> iirc, the 120cf was 320 or 350. I forget (own the bottle)
[17:07:33] <spline> and airgas = free first fill
[17:07:44] <Jymmm> I can get a 125cf for $180 + fill
[17:07:46] <greg> I saw a video of a 3d terrain map maker that had a printer, looked like a one off
[17:07:48] <spline> i'd rather go local but when they're so much more.. only nice thing is I can swap @ airgas or maine oxy here
[17:07:48] <Computer_barf> so ive been watching this show called humans, and the swedish show, real humans
[17:07:51] <spline> Jymmm: wow
[17:07:52] <spline> christ
[17:07:53] <spline> that's nice
[17:08:12] <spline> (not sure if its more to do a 75/25) but he said most inert gasses = about the same
[17:08:19] <Computer_barf> anyone else? I'm ready to employ a full time hubot
[17:08:26] <spline> only time you'd pay more is if you're getting something .. rarer like helium for stainless
[17:08:29] <Jymmm> spline: oxy aint inert =)
[17:08:37] <spline> o
[17:08:38] <spline> hm
[17:08:42] <Chopper79> PCW: Could it have naything to do with the naming convention used here?
[17:08:42] <Chopper79> # position command and feedback
[17:08:42] <Chopper79> # hijack position command and feed through thc
[17:08:42] <Chopper79> net emcmot.03.pos-cmd thc.z-pos-in <= axis.2.motor-pos-cmd
[17:08:42] <Chopper79> net thc-pos-cmd thc.z-pos-out => hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.position-cmd
[17:08:43] <Chopper79> net motor.02.pos-fb axis.2.motor-pos-fb <= thc.z-fb-out
[17:08:43] <Chopper79> Since it does not have anything about the 5i25 or hm2 information. Was thinking maybe the naming is messing it up.
[17:08:48] <spline> ok well.. I think they put them in the same class Jymmm
[17:08:55] <Chopper79> Well maybe not since the z axis does move just fine
[17:08:56] <spline> Jymmm: I priced out an oxy/propane setup (for brazing/heating)
[17:08:57] <Jymmm> spline: No, I can exchange my nitrogen tank for a helium tank,
[17:09:10] <spline> 143 for a 60cf of o2( same as a 75/25)
[17:09:16] <spline> propane is obv diff
[17:09:32] <Jymmm> spline: I have 5x 20lb propanes =)
[17:09:32] <spline> but he said that most of the gasses like that.. nitrogen, co2, o2, etc, are gonna be about the same
[17:09:47] <spline> I have one 20lb tank on my grill
[17:09:53] <spline> but I'd like to get an o2/propane rig to heat/braze
[17:10:03] <spline> (looking @ some harris torches now)
[17:10:10] <spline> since I have a plasma cutter, so 0 use for cutting
[17:10:14] <Chopper79> Its just not getting itnercepted for THC adjustments
[17:10:22] <Jymmm> spline:
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F232000-Indoor-Safe-Portable/dp/B002G51BZU
[17:10:37] <Jymmm> spline: anda SPECIAL hose
[17:10:49] <spline> yeah I am finishing my garage
[17:10:54] <spline> looking @ it or kerosene
[17:11:03] <spline> (or am about to finally finish it after 4 months of part-time work)
[17:11:07] <Jymmm> spline: INDOOR SAFE
[17:11:07] <spline> so I can heat it
[17:11:11] <spline> nice
[17:11:23] <spline> my garage is.. odd shape but prob about 18' by 24'
[17:11:37] <spline> even if I can get it to 40, that means I don't have to wear gloves
[17:11:39] <Jymmm> spline: sounds like mine
[17:11:46] <spline> when I was trying to weld at 30f, can't w/o gloves
[17:11:47] <roycroft> i wish i could get helium for the price of nitrogen or co2
[17:11:48] <spline> and it'd drive me nuts
[17:11:56] <spline> so I said fuck it and finally insulated + insulated (plywood)
[17:11:59] <Jymmm> spline: That's WHY I have a heater; my hands would hurt
[17:12:03] <spline> hehe
[17:12:04] <spline> yup
[17:12:10] <spline> well I live in NH. IM not sure where you are
[17:12:12] <spline> we have 4 seasons
[17:12:14] <Jymmm> Calif
[17:12:16] <spline> we'll get 0F, -05F
[17:12:17] <spline> oh
[17:12:20] <spline> so not as extreme
[17:12:33] <Jymmm> We get 36F
[17:12:33] <spline> well my neighbor's son, who lives a mile away and finished his
[17:12:39] <spline> he's all up in kerosene
[17:12:49] <spline> and a local station about 3 miles from here sells it (not sure price per gal)
[17:13:00] <spline> wow so with that
[17:13:01] <Jymmm> spline: You can store propane indefinantly
[17:13:06] <spline> I don't have to leave the door open?
[17:13:10] <spline> yeah my home owners insurance
[17:13:18] <spline> acety is on the list of "store this and cya"
[17:13:19] <spline> I can get why
[17:13:44] <Jymmm> spline: a garage is leaky enough
[17:13:45] <spline> im just trying to get more into fab (also longtime linux person)
[17:13:47] <spline> yeap
[17:13:55] <spline> and my door isn't anything non-std
[17:13:58] <Jymmm> spline: In the house, you crack a door/window
[17:13:59] <spline> but im sure you can empathize
[17:14:11] <spline> ill give you an example of when I was welding last feb
[17:14:19] <spline> it was 30f one day and 5f the next day
[17:14:28] <spline> close the door.. and it's 29f in the garage
[17:14:30] <spline> I can't weld :[
[17:14:42] <spline> not w/o gloves and then I lose my precision
[17:14:54] <spline> so even if just the insulation (did all rockwool)
[17:15:02] <spline> ill take it. add a propane heater? awesome
[17:15:08] <spline> im thinking of getting a 60lb from airgas
[17:15:21] <spline> (why im here is to also learn much more about cnc/milling as I'd love to get into it)
[17:15:37] <PCW> is the arc-ok pin true?
[17:15:53] <spline> I wasn't able to find any #welding/#fab type chans anywhere, sadly :\
[17:15:55] <Jymmm> spline: 18K BTU
http://www.mrheater.com/big-buddy-portable-heater.html
[17:16:11] <Jymmm> That's the BIG buddy, I have the PORTABLE buddy
[17:16:11] <spline> hm
[17:16:17] <spline> how big is your garage?
[17:16:24] <Jymmm> likeyours
[17:16:32] <spline> I don't need to get the thing up to 75F, you know?
[17:16:43] <spline> I actually love the cold.. 40f I can wear shorts and be fine
[17:16:50] <spline> but 30f and trying to weld/fab? can't
[17:17:02] <spline> 400sq/ft damn
[17:17:03] <Jymmm> spline: The the portable buddy is fine. I left it on low 4000btu
[17:17:06] <Chopper79> PCW: When the arc has not made contact with plate it is false, then once arc has transfered it becomes true.
[17:17:40] <Jymmm> spline: wallyworld
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr.-Heater-Portable-Buddy-Radiant-Heater/16622306
[17:17:46] <spline> Jymmm: how long does it last on a 20lb tank?
[17:18:01] <spline> $80 at wally but 86 (and I have prime)
[17:18:08] <PCW> what about thc.enable
[17:18:27] <Jymmm> spline: on low, about 80 hours
[17:18:39] <Jymmm> maybe 100
[17:18:43] <Jymmm> give or take
[17:18:58] <Jymmm> spline: BUT, you HAVE to use a SPECIAL hose
[17:19:14] <spline> grade T, right?
[17:19:18] <spline> vs R?
[17:19:23] <Chopper79> yes... That functions also. When disabled the functions such as the velocity LED does not work and when enabled the velocity LED works fine. This tells me the enable is functioning I would think
[17:19:27] <spline> (like swapping oxy/acet vs oxy/alt fuel)
[17:19:47] <PCW> what about thc.volts?
[17:20:17] <Chopper79> thc volts reads the voltage and also updates the meter on the axis panel.
[17:20:21] <roycroft> my jewler's torch is acetylene/air
[17:20:29] <roycroft> it does brazing of smallish parts really nicely
[17:20:34] <roycroft> jeweler's
[17:20:50] <spline> roycroft: yeah, I looked at something like that.
[17:20:54] <Chopper79> sorry
[17:20:59] <Chopper79> wrong thing
[17:21:06] <spline> I have small hands, so I'd prefer something like it, but if you're trying to bend, say, a 1" bar
[17:21:08] <spline> not enough heat
[17:21:14] <roycroft> no
[17:21:19] <Chopper79> The volt pin does show change
[17:21:21] <roycroft> the nice thing about it is that there's only one hose
[17:21:24] <roycroft> and it's a small diameter hose
[17:21:29] <spline> o
[17:21:37] <roycroft> but the drawback is that you can only use it for small parts
[17:21:39] <spline> well normal acetylene hoses are grade R
[17:21:56] <spline> when you go to "alt fuel" (propane/mapp/propylene) you have to use a T hose
[17:22:32] <PCW> So I would just go through all the THC components one by one and make sure they look right
[17:22:33] <roycroft> i have a victor oxy/acetylene setup for brazing bigger stuff, and for welding and cutting
[17:22:34] <PCW> (voltage is correct etc)
[17:23:28] <Jymmm> spline: Mr Heater part number F273704 (not any other hose)
http://www.mrheater.com/10ft-buddy-series-hose-assembly.html
[17:24:04] <Jymmm> spline: No filter is needed if you use that EXACT hose
[17:25:14] <Chopper79> This is a stock config from LCNC which I am under the impression that JT-Shop made and uses. The small changes I made were to adapt to my machine and hardware. The THC.comp file, and all of the thc functions besides offset scale and board name have the same as stock. I would think that if it works for him and nothing crucial has been changed then it should work here also.
[17:25:51] <Jymmm> spline: There are plasticizer in other hoses that will leech out and gum up your heater.
[17:26:18] <Chopper79> I will check over the pins and functions of them. The bad part is the machine is 20min away with no internet. So I have to ask questions when I get home and have enough information to go on for 8hrs the next day.
[17:27:56] <Jymmm> spline: This one is shown green, but you'll get a black colored one now.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Buddy-Series-Assembly/dp/B001CFWF5U
[17:28:56] <Chopper79> I do have the config with me if you wanted to check it out and see if anything stands out as wrong. Not sure if that will help at all but I figured at least I have it incase somebody needs it to help this problem along.
[17:30:25] <Jymmm> spline: I have my hose covered with split loom tubing to prevent it from being scruffed up
[17:32:00] <Jymmm> 1/2" split loom tubing about $6
[17:32:18] <Chopper79> I am also under the impression that the THC.comp file that come with LCNC is not hardware specific(5i25, etc) so chnaging the board name should have no chnage to the function of the comp file. I am router to the encoder A and this appears to function since I am getting a voltage readout on the meter in axis. It seesm the signal stops at the meter and goes no further.
[17:32:19] <Jymmm> and a couple of cable ties
[17:37:01] <Chopper79> When I follow the function tree in the comp file its seems fairly straight forward. Take input voltage and see if it is within range of target voltage based on the voltage tolrance set. If not make adjustments to z height to bring the voltage within range of target voltage within the threshold of voltage tolrance.
[17:54:11] <PCW> It should work the same, but I do thinh you need to halmeter all the pins
[17:54:29] <PCW> think
[17:54:59] <Chopper79> Well tomorrow I will get on that and see if everything checks out. If all does then I am not sure what is missing or wrong.
[17:55:55] <Chopper79> im almost positive that everything will check out as nothing was changed for thc in the file. I will let you know what I find.
[17:55:58] <Chopper79> Thank you
[18:18:11] <JT-Shop> Chopper79, the thc component takes a frequency in and converts that to voltage via scale and offset
[20:21:37] <backstrike> #vmware
[20:23:35] <backstrike> hi
[20:35:53] <Computer_barf> hey
[20:36:08] <malcom2073> Hi
[20:37:26] <Computer_barf> do you think its feasible to attach a print head to a cnc machine and print onto things you've cut out?
[20:38:14] <malcom2073> You could, most CNC machines aren't fast enough though
[20:38:50] <malcom2073> Why not stick the thing you've cut out on the bed of a 3d printer, and print that way
[20:39:16] <Computer_barf> i have a 3d printer
[20:39:45] <Computer_barf> still comes down to figuring out where to get the print head
[20:40:29] <Computer_barf> seemed like it would be cool if you could use inks that just wouldn't be possible with an inkjet
[20:40:41] <malcom2073> Wait, inks?
[20:40:49] <malcom2073> Oh
[20:40:49] <malcom2073> haha
[20:40:59] <malcom2073> That kind of print, sorry, my head is in 3d printers atm
[20:40:59] <Computer_barf> oh you thought i ment a 3d printer
[20:41:03] <malcom2073> Sorry :)
[20:41:14] <malcom2073> I've seen people stick pens/markets on CNC machines and draw on stuff before
[20:41:24] <Computer_barf> no its , its understantable , the cross subject mixture renders my google fu on this inert
[20:41:53] <malcom2073> Normal printers are even faster though
[20:41:56] <malcom2073> can they even operate that slow?
[20:42:31] <Computer_barf> the closest thing ive seen was a foam cutting cnc machine that printed a topological map onto a 3d surface
[20:42:54] <Computer_barf> made me wonder if i could find a printhead to slap on my cnc
[20:43:02] <Computer_barf> im making earrings and jewelery and
[20:43:28] <Computer_barf> man it would be handy to cut out shapes, clean them up , then put them back in a fixture and print imagery onto them.
[20:44:28] <Computer_barf> your making me wonder though if the same idea could be put on my 3d printer so i could print things on that , while I cut out on the cnc
[20:45:32] <Computer_barf> googling 3d printer printer, doesn't lend much success though
[20:47:35] <Computer_barf> bbl
[20:49:24] <RyanS> furrydog, I had a brilliant idea, instead of a voltmeter ill make a gigawatt meter, it'll go to 1.25 gigawatts :)
[20:51:12] <RyanS> thats more gigawatts than Doc Brown ever dreamed about
[21:01:44] <CaptHindsight> Computer_barf: try searching for multi-axis printer or inkjet
[21:07:55] <CaptHindsight> Computer_barf: there is no inexpensive solution unless you want to hack a thermal inkjet, the Epson heads are pretty clumsy to work with
[21:08:33] <CaptHindsight> and the weenie-est of the the piezo printheads
[21:38:59] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/004p3sP.jpg Some of today's progress
[21:39:52] <t12> Capt: are inkjets utually driven from custom ics to get the waveform right
[21:40:00] <t12> or are there generic drivers? or just dac -> amps?
[21:40:48] <CaptHindsight> t12: waveforms are often patented
[21:41:03] <DaViruz> i was messing around with driving inkjets for non standard purposes a bunch of years back.
[21:41:05] <CaptHindsight> every head is different
[21:41:25] <DaViruz> indeed i found a patent on thermal inkjet heads that was quite helpful
[21:41:33] <CaptHindsight> so have very simple IO and other have multiple LVDS interfaces
[21:42:03] <DaViruz> the hydrodynamics in inkjet heads seems to be veery complicated
[21:42:41] <CaptHindsight> driving the piezos is actually a bit tricky since some require non-linear pulses up to 200V with several amps
[21:42:57] <t12> ugh
[21:43:01] <DaViruz> i wanted to use them for metering fuel for small gas engines.
[21:43:02] <t12> yeah i remember playing with an epson 7600
[21:43:10] <t12> and seeing alot of juice on the bus to the heads
[21:43:11] <DaViruz> turned out to be very impractical
[21:43:20] <CaptHindsight> yeah that's why driving pulses are considered top secret by the inkjet makers
[21:43:56] <t12> but it seems like its only really protectable via litigation and annoyance of driver electronics?
[21:44:13] <DaViruz> a friend of mine made this contraption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7t0Ns0zLps
[21:44:23] <CaptHindsight> or when you try to buy heads
[21:44:28] <CaptHindsight> not everyone can
[21:44:34] <t12> hah cool
[21:44:38] <CaptHindsight> it's like trying to buy PC chipsets
[21:44:52] <CaptHindsight> very limited pool of customers
[21:45:11] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, why are you removing all the material in the pocket of those?
[21:45:15] <t12> i guess if the force the piezo sees varies through travel that needs to be compensated for
[21:45:17] <Tom_itx> why not just profile the part?
[21:45:47] <Tom_itx> less machine time
[21:46:15] <CaptHindsight> t12: it more a matter of creating the the right wave or series of waves inside the nozzle chamber
[21:46:39] <t12> like so closer to acoustic ejection
[21:46:42] <t12> instead of just pumping
[21:46:43] <CaptHindsight> the waveform will even vary based on temperature
[21:46:56] <CaptHindsight> every fluid will also have its own waveform
[21:47:00] <t12> we have one of those echo liquid handlers
[21:47:07] <t12> it def seems to be environmentally sensitive
[21:47:27] <PetefromTn_> mostly because I hold it in the vise and will be flipping it over for the second side. Did not feel like machining sacrificial jaws for the first side too'
[21:47:36] <CaptHindsight> the waveform will also vary based on the position and orientation of the head/nozzles
[21:47:48] <t12> vs gravity?
[21:48:02] <Tom_itx> you could still do it
[21:48:02] <PetefromTn_> but I am open to suggestions..
[21:48:22] <Tom_itx> how do you hold P2?
[21:48:22] <PetefromTn_> honestly making multiple profile passes is not really that much faster
[21:48:45] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[21:48:58] <Tom_itx> how do you hold it for the 2nd op
[21:49:13] <PetefromTn_> I machine a pocket in sacrificial jaws
[21:49:17] <Tom_itx> we always called them P1 P2 P3 etc
[21:49:19] <PetefromTn_> well NORMALLY I do
[21:49:33] <PetefromTn_> but this one is actually a parallel part so I may not need to
[21:49:35] <CaptHindsight> nozzles arranged vertically will have more pressure on the bottom nozzles vs horizontally having all about equal
[21:49:43] <PetefromTn_> but the center portion is longer than the ends
[21:50:02] <PetefromTn_> I just call it side 2
[21:50:11] <CaptHindsight> the inkjet chambers also require a slight negative pressure (few inches of water)
[21:50:17] <PetefromTn_> which is just facemill off the flashing and do the champfering
[21:50:30] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:50:30] <t12> i also kind remember that from the 7600
[21:50:48] <t12> i swapped out the ink tanks for something external
[21:50:51] <PetefromTn_> plus this way I don't have to worry about drop parts flying across the enclosure too much
[21:50:51] <t12> but very position sensitive
[21:50:57] <CaptHindsight> so there is much more going on than just sending a pulse to a nozzle than just sending a 1 to operate a valve or switch
[21:51:36] <t12> do waveform failures mean just failure to eject
[21:51:37] <CaptHindsight> some heads print multiple size drops so it gets even more complicated
[21:51:51] <t12> or is varying size, trajectory, etc more likely?
[21:51:56] <PetefromTn_> how would you do that part?
[21:52:13] <t12> waveform falure == inappropriate/glitched/somewhat off waveform
[21:52:26] <Tom_itx> that's probably about as good as any i suppose
[21:52:41] <Tom_itx> i may have bolted P1 to the table and done the profile
[21:52:44] <CaptHindsight> well they actually fire the same size drop each time, it's just that when you fire multiple drops in a short enough time they combine in flight to produce larger drops
[21:52:54] <Tom_itx> but then you need to move the bolts to finish the pockets
[21:52:55] <t12> ahh so more like throughput
[21:53:51] <CaptHindsight> the Epson heads you se on their desktop printers are really made for a vary narrow range of fluids
[21:54:19] <t12> the devil microfluidics
[21:54:20] <CaptHindsight> and they don't recirculate so they are really easy to clog
[21:54:27] <t12> i guess inkjet is beyond micro
[21:55:06] <CaptHindsight> http://global.kyocera.com/prdct/printing-devices/inkjet-printheads/
[21:55:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/industrial_inkjet_printheads/print-products/printheads/
[21:55:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.xaar.com/en/products
[21:56:01] <CaptHindsight> all very different
[21:56:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rpsa.ricoh.com/technology/
[21:56:38] <t12> does vendor to vendor capability vary alot
[21:56:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rpsa.ricoh.com/
[21:57:09] <t12> ahh so droplet size is more like
[21:57:16] <t12> inflight merge to make it the right size before impact
[21:57:23] <t12> on purpose
[21:58:02] <CaptHindsight> yeah, shared wall vs non shared, number of nozzles, nozzle pitch, drop size, firing rate, heaters vs non, type of ink reservoir etc etc
[21:58:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.siiprintek.co.jp/eg/
[21:59:23] <CaptHindsight> so have micros and drivers built in, some are pretty plain
[22:00:02] <t12> http://www.konicaminolta.com/inkjet/technology/img/inkjet_head_pict0009.gif
[22:00:02] <t12> dang
[22:00:29] <t12> is the varied shape/position about managing channel to channel interactions
[22:00:32] <CaptHindsight> don't care much for that brand
[22:00:57] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i'm not sure you would save much time any other way really
[22:01:11] <Tom_itx> just more wear on the EM
[22:02:06] <Jymmm> Anyone have/use a "portable" generator in their home?
[22:02:17] <Tom_itx> how portable?
[22:02:21] <Tom_itx> 5600W
[22:02:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: 4400W
[22:02:30] <Jymmm> max
[22:02:32] <CaptHindsight> Mr Fusion?
[22:02:41] <Tom_itx> mine is 5600
[22:02:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: do youhave a heat pump?
[22:02:58] <Tom_itx> no
[22:03:06] <Tom_itx> AC
[22:03:25] <Jymmm> 220@ 30A ?
[22:03:25] <Tom_itx> i don't try to power it during an outtage
[22:03:32] <Tom_itx> probably
[22:03:40] <Tom_itx> 20-30A
[22:03:57] <Jymmm> Well, we're talking 108F and down to 25F
[22:04:08] <Jymmm> so heat/cool IS why I'd have a generator
[22:04:30] <jdh> I run a window unit off mine
[22:04:31] <Tom_itx> i just run the essentials during an outtage
[22:04:35] <jdh> jsut cool the bedroom
[22:04:52] <Jymmm> I found a good deal on one, but escrow hasn't closed yet, so no in dpeth on the HVAC unit
[22:05:20] <Tom_itx> my bud got a 15kw from a grocery store for his
[22:05:58] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/DuroMax-XP4400EH-Portable-Generator-4400-Watt/dp/B009RBKGZC/
[22:06:18] <Jymmm> propane/gas, pull/electric start
[22:06:31] <Jymmm> and I'll have 250gal of propane available
[22:06:46] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Yeah I just try to take a reasonably heavy full depth cut and run as fast as I can all around. I suppose if you were really a badass you could go with a corn cob rougher and just hog the profile in a single pass and follow with a finisher
[22:07:06] <Tom_itx> Not for sale to California Residents
[22:07:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I' not buying retial
[22:07:44] <PetefromTn_> The entire program for the first side is like a half hour or so. Only making like 30 of each size right now so NOTHING is really optimized just trying to get a decent finish and make the parts without crashing hehe
[22:08:28] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, i may have bolted it to a plate and profiled it then did several slots. moved the bolts to do the final couple slots. then flip it and finish it like you are
[22:08:39] <Tom_itx> save removing all that material
[22:08:58] <Tom_itx> use maybe a .500 EM or so for the profile
[22:09:00] <PetefromTn_> yeah but like you said you are spending time screwing with bolting down parts
[22:09:32] <PetefromTn_> if my toolchanger was working I could just walk away and make two at a time without any intervention
[22:09:36] <Tom_itx> so you may not save much time but it would be less tool wear
[22:10:06] <Tom_itx> not being critical, i just like to look at different ways to fixture parts
[22:10:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah but it is only 6061, like butter so tool wear is not really a factor. In fact I have been running this same cutter setup for a couple months now hehe
[22:10:32] <PetefromTn_> Oh please I appreciate any input
[22:10:46] <PetefromTn_> I DEFINITELY can use to learn more about how to speed stuff up around here
[22:10:58] <PetefromTn_> I am slow as shit compared to some folks I have worked with
[22:11:23] <Tom_itx> we were conservative on our setups usually compared to alot of shops
[22:11:41] <PetefromTn_> so you are saying drill some holes, bolt it down to a plate, profile, and then unbolt and flip over on same plate?
[22:12:13] <Tom_itx> no, you could finish it in the softjaws like you currently are but you may not need the shell mill for P2
[22:12:25] <PetefromTn_> I am somewhere between conservative and slow as molasses going uphill ;)
[22:12:37] <Tom_itx> especially if the material is to finish to begin with
[22:13:09] <PetefromTn_> yeah but you still have to finish the pockets too
[22:13:18] <CaptHindsight> how long would it take on a manual mill?
[22:13:30] <Tom_itx> quite a while
[22:13:31] <PetefromTn_> and then you have to be careful with your hold downs damaging the part too
[22:13:41] <Tom_itx> it's hard to do circular interpolation on a manual mill
[22:13:46] <PetefromTn_> I don't know how the hell you would even make them on a manual LOL
[22:14:13] <CaptHindsight> Mr. Etch-a-Sketch hands
[22:14:34] <PetefromTn_> I am sure if I went gangbusters on my speeds and feeds and optimized the program I could machine them in half the current time.
[22:14:49] <PetefromTn_> right now I am MUCH more concerned with how to get these bad boys anodized :D
[22:15:23] <Tom_itx> practice on scrap
[22:15:58] <PetefromTn_> with the anodizing?
[22:16:06] <PetefromTn_> Oh yeah man I fully intend to
[22:16:28] <PetefromTn_> I actually have several prototype pieces I machined that are very similar which will be perfect for testing.
[22:16:40] <PetefromTn_> Before those get done I plan to just do some raw stock pieces.
[22:16:55] <PetefromTn_> but I am actually needing to get this setup here SOON!!
[22:20:45] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: since you are freshly machining every surface of the parts you are going to anodize, you can just clean/degrease and anodize them
[22:20:50] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully my new power supply will be here by the end of the week. Planning to go pickup some battery acid, some baking soda, and some other supplies locally tomorrow afternoon if I can get these parts machined
[22:21:04] <PetefromTn_> Oh really?
[22:21:08] <CaptHindsight> desmut and etching is handy for extrusions
[22:21:41] <PetefromTn_> so all I will need is some sort of aluminum cleaner/degreaser and the nickel stuff for the sealing bath?
[22:21:58] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[22:22:03] <PetefromTn_> basically most all of the parts I make are machined completely
[22:22:15] <CaptHindsight> try a couple clear parts and see how they come out
[22:22:27] <PetefromTn_> some have a brushed finish which I do with an emory cloth
[22:22:49] <PetefromTn_> I can't wait to try it ;)
[22:23:25] <CaptHindsight> yeah, yu just need to get all the coolant, oil fingerprints, raccoon sweat eatc. off them before anize
[22:23:25] <Chopper79> Hello, I am still tracking down the issue I am having with my THC. IF anyone is familiar with the postgui.hal files in the 5i20-plasma config. I could use some clarification on something.
[22:23:25] <Chopper79> In the postgui.hal the following is commented out: #net thc-volts-tol <= pyvcp.volts-tolerance-i thc.volts-tol
[22:23:25] <Chopper79> Will this being commented out is the Voltage tolerance ignored and the thc has to do what it can to hit requested voltage or by this being commented out causing my issue of not allowing correction due to no tolerance is set?
[22:24:11] <PetefromTn_> Yeah man I need to keep the racoons out of the shop I guess..
[22:24:23] <Chopper79> wow...that typed funny. time to blow out the keys
[22:31:50] <Chopper79> When I look at the thc.comp file the thc.volts-tol is not in there. The following is though: voltage_tol (or voltage-tol when converted to hal) When I uncomment the line out in hal and change the thc.volts-tol to thc.voltage-tol in postgui the config errors upon launch. Error states that thc.voltage-tol does not exist.
[22:31:50] <Chopper79> I guess im trying to find out why this is commented out and how does the LCNC config and the thc.comp know what I set my voltage tolerance to if the voltage tolerance goes to nothing from what I can tell.
[22:40:08] <Jymmm> Does that look like it could handle 220@50A ?
http://imageproxy.advancemcs.com/amcse/assets/images/nonglobal/store/merchandise_new/14444/slot_09.jpg
[22:40:49] <Jymmm> Should I be afraid? Very afraid?
[22:40:54] <zeeshan> nice work pete
[22:41:41] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Resraunt supply sells 25lb bags of baging soda
[22:41:47] <Jymmm> baking soda
[22:41:56] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Maybe smart and final too
[22:43:01] <PetefromTn_> Okay thanks for the tip
[22:43:15] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan thanks man appreciate it.
[22:43:38] <PetefromTn_> gonna hopefully be anodizing these early next week with some help from my friends...
[22:44:37] <zeeshan> gonna polish em?
[22:44:45] <PetefromTn_> no not really
[22:45:18] <PetefromTn_> I DID order a 3m deburring wheel for my bench grinder to deburr and slightly polish the major surfaces.
[22:45:45] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Two things...
[22:46:05] <PetefromTn_> oh hell
[22:46:38] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: 1) You can NEVER have too much baking soda, and can't have enough in reach when needed - toss in plastic jars and place everywhere
[22:47:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah I agree but remember this is a pretty diluted battery acid bath man..
[22:48:16] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: 2) Instead of expensive emergency eye was station, *I* keep a few of these around and replace them when they expire, as they are cheap enough for the two bottle kit..
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-Sterile-Multipurpose-Solution-12-fl-oz/10324537
[22:48:57] <PetefromTn_> Hey man that is a good idea..
[22:49:06] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: They are physically sealed bottle; as in you must puncture the bottle to break the seal
[22:49:08] <PetefromTn_> I do plan to wear goggles during this tho
[22:49:24] <Jymmm> not just a plastic band
[22:49:25] <PetefromTn_> maybe even a facemask
[22:50:07] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I say a few of them because they are only 12oz bottles and if you get stuff in your eyes, your are going to want to flush the fuck out of them
[22:50:18] <PetefromTn_> Willdo
[22:50:41] <PetefromTn_> right now I am trying to decide if I should go with the dual lead plates in the bath or just 6061 plates for the anodes
[22:50:53] <Jymmm> those have a boratic acid buffer solution in them as well.
[22:51:53] <Connor> PetefromTn_:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtYHcsq7s5A
[22:51:57] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I don't fuck around with my eyes. You should have seen me when I was getting new glasses. The Director of optometry had to assist me.
[22:52:26] <PetefromTn_> Connor yeah man already watched it
[22:52:34] <Connor> Oh.
[22:52:35] <PetefromTn_> and about every other damn anodizing video on youtube
[22:52:39] <PetefromTn_> thanks tho
[22:52:52] <PetefromTn_> Have not heard from you in awhile everything OK?
[22:52:58] <PetefromTn_> We still pals? hehe
[22:53:04] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I have and like this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-face-shield-46526.html
[22:53:24] <PetefromTn_> Ooh that looks nice
[22:53:26] <PetefromTn_> and cheap
[22:53:26] <Connor> Mom been in and out of Hospital / Nursing Home since first of the year.
[22:53:35] <PetefromTn_> damn that sux
[22:53:42] <Connor> Just had a really bad year..
[22:53:48] <PetefromTn_> sure did man
[22:53:49] <Connor> not really felt like doing much.
[22:53:53] <PetefromTn_> sorry for you
[22:53:59] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: This is a P95 Respirator. I couldn't even smell bleach wearing it...
http://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-large-67727-7694.html
[22:54:20] <PetefromTn_> I have like three different respirators
[22:54:20] <Connor> My shop is a freaking disaster.. as is my office.. I need to get both cleaned up and start tinkering around again.
[22:54:29] <PetefromTn_> I do a LOT of custom painting
[22:54:39] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: P95 or N95?
[22:54:57] <PetefromTn_> don't remember but they have the new square style cartridges
[22:55:03] <PetefromTn_> have to go look at it
[22:55:19] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: P95 > N95 fyi
[22:55:28] <PetefromTn_> okay
[22:55:41] <PetefromTn_> all I know is when I spray I can't smell shit with it on hehe
[22:55:52] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Ok, that works
[22:56:16] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: just dont ned you getting a wiff of acid
[22:56:25] <PetefromTn_> I hope so especially when I spray lacquer and other nasty stuff
[22:56:41] <PetefromTn_> as I said I am going to do it outside
[22:56:54] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: P95 = organic chemicals
[22:57:22] <Jymmm> N95 = particals (sawdust, sanding paint. iirc)
[22:57:43] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: that shied DOES tip up too
[22:57:48] <PetefromTn_> Like I said I bought what they recommended at the paint supplier so I think it should be good.
[22:57:59] <Jymmm> k
[22:58:00] <PetefromTn_> my paint supplier is a PRO only supplier
[22:58:12] <PetefromTn_> I bought it from them
[22:58:19] <PetefromTn_> it was the best they had
[22:58:20] <Jymmm> If it's laytex paint, not a biggy
[22:58:33] <PetefromTn_> I spray all kinds of paint on cabinets
[22:58:37] <Jymmm> ah
[22:58:39] <PetefromTn_> water based
[22:58:44] <PetefromTn_> solvent based
[22:58:46] <PetefromTn_> oil based
[22:58:50] <PetefromTn_> you name it
[22:58:58] <Jymmm> gotcha
[22:59:14] <Jymmm> Just when you start to fuck around with tanks of acid.....
[22:59:17] <PetefromTn_> I must have sprayed a couple thousand cabinet jobs over the years seriously
[22:59:21] <Jymmm> CYA
[22:59:30] <PetefromTn_> but I have no experience with acids LOL
[22:59:54] <Jymmm> neither do I, but I know enough to keep me out of trouble =)
[23:00:06] <PetefromTn_> thanks for the tips man I appreciate it
[23:00:16] <Jymmm> boxes of baking soda, respirator, full face shield, long ass gloves =)
[23:00:19] <PetefromTn_> I need to get setup right here I want to be doing this for awhile
[23:00:33] <PetefromTn_> thats the basics I guess huh
[23:00:49] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: the lens cleaning solution aslo good if you get something in your eyes and need to flush it out
[23:01:10] <PetefromTn_> already got the respirator, long gloves, and will pickup the baking soda and eye wash stuff
[23:01:13] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: or if you get a deep wound you can wash it out
[23:01:30] <Jymmm> just squeeze the hell out of the bottle =)
[23:01:50] <Jymmm> after you break the seal of course =)
[23:01:57] <PetefromTn_> whats funny is watching all those videos online I almost never see people using PPE
[23:02:15] <Jymmm> which iirc is just tightening the lid as it has a point that pierces the bottle
[23:03:03] <Jymmm> Well, I really do mess aroud with things that I shouldn't, so I take extra precations
[23:04:01] <PetefromTn_> better safe than in the hospital
[23:04:18] <Jymmm> s/hospital/cemetary/
[23:05:24] <zeeshan> its just chemicals
[23:05:26] <zeeshan> i drink em
[23:05:30] <zeeshan> delicious
[23:05:43] <Jymmm> cooking is just chemistry
[23:07:07] <PetefromTn_> already dumped a couple hundred bucks into this thing...gonna try to do it right here
[23:09:49] <PetefromTn_> Okay just ordered the nickel acetate sealant, some aluminum specific degreaser, some titanium wire for hanging my parts and a few other doo dads for this shindig from caswell plating
[23:13:30] <Jymmm> Ti? Look at NiChrome too, might be cheaper
[23:15:10] <PetefromTn_> well apparently the Ti wire is a good conductor for the anodizing parts and it does not anodize for whatever reason so you can keep using it.
[23:15:29] <PetefromTn_> I was actually planning on using tig aluminum wire but after I read that I went for the Ti wire
[23:15:48] <Jymmm> gotcha
[23:15:54] <PetefromTn_> I am kind of excited about this whole thing. I have wanted to try it for years
[23:16:12] <PetefromTn_> I make a lot of parts that will be cool anodized.
[23:16:28] <Jymmm> cool beans!
[23:16:42] <PetefromTn_> hopefully heh
[23:16:57] <PetefromTn_> it sure as hell is not exactly cheap tho.
[23:17:15] <Jymmm> nothing ever is
[23:17:36] <PetefromTn_> apparently the acid bath and the other baths last for a very long time if you maintain them tho.
[23:17:41] <PetefromTn_> so that is nice to know
[23:45:23] <tiwake> making parts is a pain in the flank some times
[23:45:33] <tiwake> sometimes
[23:45:34] <tiwake> w/e
[23:48:07] <PetefromTn_> sure is
