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[00:17:06] <Jymmm> it's 2200, only 5 more hours to go
[02:13:08] <Deejay> moin
[02:25:03] <cromaglious_> still waiting at emergency room
[02:38:35] <Jymmm> why?
[03:06:45] * robin_sz reads back
[03:07:16] <robin_sz> ahh, Americans and their funny understanding of foreign languages :)
[03:10:38] <robin_sz> zeeshan, Mesa do have proper ADC dont they?
[03:11:49] <zeeshan> it does
[03:11:51] <zeeshan> 14bit
[03:12:12] <zeeshan> i meant to say earlier it didnt have everything i needed in one package since it's designed for controlling a cnc machine
[03:12:41] <zeeshan> my daq thing has 2 analog outputs, along with analog in, and gpio
[03:13:14] <zeeshan> woulda used a mesa in a heartbeat
[03:13:25] <zeeshan> life would be much easier right now :P
[03:13:42] <zeeshan> i hope pcw makes something like a general purpose board in the future
[03:13:52] <zeeshan> i'll definitely buy it for custom apparatuses
[03:15:14] <robin_sz> right
[03:15:46] <robin_sz> if you take a 7i77 and hang a 7i87 on it, you have everything I think
[03:15:55] <robin_sz> servos, IO, analogue
[03:17:09] <robin_sz> who or waht is PCW?
[03:18:00] <zeeshan> the 7i87 is 12b it though
[03:18:01] <zeeshan> not 14
[03:18:28] <robin_sz> is that relevant?
[03:18:32] <zeeshan> yea
[03:18:42] <zeeshan> not that i think about it
[03:18:49] <zeeshan> i woulda taken a bit less resolution for more peace of mind
[03:18:51] <zeeshan> shoulda gone mesa :/
[03:18:59] <robin_sz> what is your signal voltage?
[03:19:02] <zeeshan> youre right, that combination has everything
[03:19:05] <zeeshan> 5v
[03:19:08] <zeeshan> thats another problem
[03:19:18] <zeeshan> it expects +/- 10V i think
[03:19:20] <robin_sz> and what is the noise level on the signal?
[03:19:37] <robin_sz> it will measure 0-5V just fine
[03:19:56] <zeeshan> fft showed some noise below 0.1 hz
[03:20:07] <robin_sz> level
[03:20:12] <zeeshan> shrug :P
[03:20:16] <robin_sz> 10mv of noise?
[03:20:24] <zeeshan> lemme see
[03:20:34] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/1bFmi9O.png
[03:20:43] <zeeshan> edr thats not voltage
[03:21:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/fXnQ2NQ.png
[03:21:25] <zeeshan> looks like 9mV
[03:21:29] <zeeshan> so yea about 10
[03:21:35] <zeeshan> 90 mV
[03:21:36] <zeeshan> whoops
[03:21:54] <robin_sz> yes ... 90mv
[03:22:21] <robin_sz> 12bit resolution on a 20V range gives you 4mv steps
[03:22:32] <robin_sz> so way under your noise floor
[03:23:13] <robin_sz> 8 bit would be fine
[03:23:29] <zeeshan> easier to know that now i'm measuring it
[03:23:30] <zeeshan> :)
[03:24:02] <zeeshan> most of that noise is 1 frequency banmd
[03:24:05] <zeeshan> and its filtered out
[03:24:19] <robin_sz> just DC couple your soundcard inptu and use that ;)
[03:25:57] <robin_sz> just buy the mesa, you know you want to
[03:26:16] <robin_sz> I ordred a 7i25 and 7i77 plug and go the other day
[03:27:01] <zeeshan> 7i25?
[03:27:15] <zeeshan> i have the 5i25 and 7i77
[03:27:16] <zeeshan> they are bad ass
[03:27:25] <zeeshan> they just work
[03:27:26] <zeeshan> :P
[03:29:09] <robin_sz> oh, 5i25 ... yeap
[03:29:39] <robin_sz> I have a 5i20 and 7i33 at moment, but so hard to find full height PCs
[03:29:56] <robin_sz> easier to buy low profile, and the 7i77 looks awesome
[03:30:08] <robin_sz> ordered an HB04 too
[03:30:45] <zeeshan> a pendant would be nice
[03:30:53] <robin_sz> cheap
[03:30:54] <zeeshan> that is something i really need on the mill
[03:30:57] <zeeshan> lathe not so much
[03:30:58] <robin_sz> $100
[03:31:05] <zeeshan> thats the wired one?
[03:31:06] <zeeshan> or wireless
[03:31:11] <robin_sz> bluetooth
[03:31:15] <robin_sz> or whatever
[04:11:49] <archivist> no machining at midnight today... leap second being added :)
[04:13:22] <Jymmm> is that in June usually?
[04:14:51] <archivist> irregular first in three years
[04:15:02] <Jymmm> ah
[04:15:22] <archivist> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33313347
[04:16:36] <Jymmm> http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html
[04:21:04] <Jymmm> If the Earth is slowing down, shouldn't we take away a second?
[04:21:54] <Jymmm> Oh, the "day" gets longer. nm
[05:31:54] <XXCoder> a whole second
[05:32:01] <XXCoder> dunno what I will do it
[05:32:11] <XXCoder> probably waste it on a breathe
[05:35:39] <XXCoder> Jymmm:
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/5/0/6/421506_v1.jpg heh
[05:37:09] <DaViruz> when they make tianhe-2 fit in a cyborg i'll be impressed
[05:37:37] <XXCoder> wait 100 years there'll be watch that can do it
[05:38:08] <XXCoder> by time data gets around (assuming same stats as show one) he would have dust sized brain
[05:38:24] <XXCoder> assuming different stats, WAY riciously powerful brain
[09:12:34] <greg__> Is there a live disc for 2.7 yet?
[09:17:47] <archivist> I seem to remember talk about it becoming available on the buildbot one day, seems not so far,
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[09:18:42] <archivist> I think too much hand waving is needed though
[09:20:33] <greg__> Right, I'll do a 2.6 install and try the upgrade. I killed an hdd trying to make a clone. oops.
[09:20:37] <Tom_itx> i can't find it right now
[09:21:53] <cradek> yes there is one
[09:23:26] <skunkworks> there is a 2.7 livecd?
[09:23:56] <Tom_itx> the latest iso is either master or 2.7, it's in a dev area iirc
[09:25:33] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/index.html#_getting_linuxcnc
[09:25:53] <skunkworks> Look at that!
[09:28:21] <Tom_itx> how come this one is 404? :
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/Updating-LinuxCNC.html
[09:29:47] <greg__> Thanks! Any idea how big the install is? This box is getting old 933MHz 512GB and I'm trying to put it on a 4GB CF.
[09:30:09] <Tom_itx> it fits on a DVD but not a CD
[09:30:31] <cradek> it's probably a little over 1 GB
[09:30:55] <cradek> oh you mean the installed system, not the install image
[09:32:51] <cradek> I guess I don't know
[09:32:53] <Tom_itx> the last iso i got on 5.23 was 1,187,692,544 bytes
[09:33:13] <cradek> I think it's likely for the install to fit in 4GB
[09:33:40] <cradek> you'll probably want to install without swap
[09:33:49] <cradek> you meant 512 MB of ram, right?
[09:34:25] <greg__> I think I'll try installing Lucid then upgrading. Lucid ran fine. I'd have to try a DVD drive in this box as it doesn't even boot from USB. Right 512MB of RAM.
[09:35:14] <greg__> i saw somebody was running it on 10.04 on the forum.
[09:35:31] <Tom_itx> i've got it on 1004
[09:35:37] <Tom_itx> .
[09:36:05] <cradek> greg__: I've had great luck with PLOP in those situations:
https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html
[09:38:01] <greg__> interesting
[09:38:06] <cradek> put that tiny iso on a cd, and then boot it and pick USB on the menu
[09:40:43] <greg__> I'll try that. thank you!
[11:46:53] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Never realized you were a cheesehead.
[11:47:51] <skunkworks> If I was into sports I might be...
[11:48:00] <Jymmm> =)
[11:48:12] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Well, I really meant from WI
[11:48:19] <skunkworks> right :)
[11:49:15] <skunkworks> right on the mississippi
[11:50:25] <Jymmm> I dont think I could event point to WI on a map. Uh, it's up there near some lakes or somethin
[11:53:37] <MrHindsight> good beer, brats and cows
[11:54:02] <MrHindsight> was there yesterday
[11:54:31] <Jymmm> So, a pretty gassy place I take it
[11:54:58] <Jymmm> (methane)
[11:57:12] <ssi> I'm going to WI at the end of the month
[11:57:43] <archivist> Womens Institute
[11:57:53] <ssi> might have to fly a pitts to reno this weekend
[11:57:58] <ssi> that'll be a grueling miserable trip
[11:58:01] <Jymmm> Oh, NOW someone has a 40cf tank for sale.... bastards.
[12:06:15] <Jymmm> 5gal, 9 ports, What would this typically be used for (as opposed to a manifold)
http://images.craigslist.org/00A0A_cOnO9nZjteI_600x450.jpg
[12:23:33] <zeeshan> is 2.7 stable
[12:24:18] <archivist> very nearly almost just about
[12:24:50] <zeeshan> it has the moveoff feature?
[12:24:57] * zeeshan wants
[12:25:05] <archivist> dunno
[12:25:33] <zeeshan> its in the pre5
[12:25:43] <zeeshan> pre3 even
[13:00:18] <Jymmm> Hawt Damn! My cheesy lil inverter is running a whole house fan quite nicely =)
[13:08:33] <CaptHindsight> ssi: trying using a plane :)
[13:17:52] <ssi> CaptHindsight: eh?
[13:20:04] <CaptHindsight> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080729105842AA6fvDm must be getting to be too old of a joke
[13:20:39] <ssi> it doesn't work when the setup is "have to fly <an airplane>"
[13:23:22] * SpeedEvil wonders if you can get fly by wire planes.
[13:23:37] <ssi> sure
[13:23:50] <ssi> not sure how much an F22 is new from lockheed, but they're fly by wire
[13:23:59] <ssi> all the airbuses are
[13:24:03] <SpeedEvil> I mean the wood sort.
[13:24:19] <ssi> wood sort of what? :P
[13:24:29] <SpeedEvil> Plane.
[13:24:36] <ssi> words are important
[13:24:41] <SpeedEvil> As in a device for producing wood shavings.
[13:25:03] <ssi> you want a robotic surface plane?
[13:25:25] <ssi> also producing wood shavings is more of a side effect ;)
[13:25:40] <SpeedEvil> ssi: says you
[13:26:10] <ssi> yeah, says me
[13:26:29] <CaptHindsight> you mean like how do they fly these things?
http://www.abbeypowertools.co.uk/webupload/APOWER/DRAPER2013/APOWERLARGE45241_P4-L.jpg
[13:26:45] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6YpwUvIUAEWOMC.jpg:large
[13:27:04] <ssi> here's a picture I took hand building a wood plane using a hand-built wood hand plane
[13:27:24] <ssi> does that cement my credentials? ;)
[13:42:13] <_methods> hehe you built your own block plane
[13:42:20] <_methods> that's dedication
[13:42:30] <ssi> not a block plane!
[13:42:32] <ssi> it's a smoothing plane!
[13:42:35] <ssi> words mean things people!
[13:42:35] <ssi> :D
[13:42:39] <_methods> smoothing fine
[13:42:45] <ssi> I built a shoulder plane too
[13:42:55] <ssi> what can I say, I'm a plane building sumbitch
[13:43:02] <_methods> it appears so
[13:43:11] <SpeedEvil> trench planes are neat
[13:43:24] <ssi> I had a nice plow plane
[13:43:26] <ssi> but I sold it
[13:43:37] <ssi> http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=69788&cat=1,41182
[13:45:35] <ssi> here's the shoulder plane during construction
[13:45:36] <ssi> https://scontent-atl1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1559840_10100313185511232_1452437342_n.jpg?oh=544004d5eb525fd35226b21d51e4d7ab&oe=5629A40C
[13:46:46] <_methods> i love hand planing
[13:46:52] <_methods> relaxing
[13:46:58] <ssi> it can be
[13:47:03] <ssi> it can also be freakin exhausting
[13:47:13] <_methods> heh not when i'm on my clock
[13:47:20] <ssi> I bought 150bf of rough-sawn common grade poplar
[13:47:25] <ssi> and I surfaced it four sides by hand
[13:47:31] <ssi> that shit about killed me
[13:47:34] <_methods> yeah i bet
[13:48:03] <ssi> scrubbing it flat-ish, then smoothing it with a jack plane, using winding sticks to eliminate cup and twist
[13:48:03] <_methods> that's planer jointer territory there
[13:48:09] <ssi> yeah and I have a planer and jointer
[13:48:17] <ssi> but I wanted to learn how to do it the hard way
[13:48:23] <_methods> it's rewarding
[13:48:23] <ssi> now I know how to do it, so I never have to do it agains :D
[13:48:36] <_methods> well sometimes you gotta do stuff that won't fit in a machine
[13:48:44] <_methods> good to know what you have to do
[14:00:01] <JT-Shop> wonderful, a lamebrain forgot he bought something from me and filed a charge back with his credit card company... paypal has frozen the funds and is reviewing the case and it can take up to 30 days even though the guy had an ah ha moment an hour after filing and called his credit card company back
[14:00:53] <ssi> ugh
[14:01:18] <cradek> I've almost made that mistake
[14:01:21] <cradek> it's easy to do
[14:01:25] <SpeedEvil> I have made that mistake.
[14:01:33] <SpeedEvil> I bought $100 of LEDs.
[14:01:46] <SpeedEvil> And the line on my credit card said 'foo trading company'
[14:01:56] <SpeedEvil> With no relationship to the LED vendor
[14:02:23] <JT-Shop> that's what happened to me the cc charge said paypal/ebay
[14:02:27] <cradek> I've had many mysterious charges (and canceled cards) over the years
[14:02:35] <cradek> it's irritating
[14:03:37] <JT-Shop> it's just annoying that he contacted his cc company back within an hour and it takes paypal 30 days to sort that out!
[14:03:58] <_methods> yeah paypal moves at the light of speed to correct this stuff too
[14:04:06] <_methods> /sarcasm
[14:04:50] <ssi> paypal moves very quickly on the buyer's behalf, but they'll screw over the seller
[14:05:07] <ssi> which is hilarious since the seller pays the fees too
[14:05:57] <_methods> paypal looking for fraud on your cards
[14:05:58] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7acD4q0lp0
[14:06:00] <JT-Shop> put a new tube in the mountain bike 2 days ago and it blew out this morning
[14:10:09] <Rab> JT-Shop, new from the store, or purchased a while ago? I've had tubes dry-rot.
[14:13:03] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, had you shipped it yet?
[14:14:26] <Tom_itx> those ole senile pharts n their trikes n all...
[14:28:59] <zeeshan-lab> IM TUNING MY PRESSURE SYSTEM!!
[14:29:02] <zeeshan-lab> its working!!!!!!!!!!1
[14:29:06] <ssi> lol
[14:29:16] <jdh> JT: go tubeless
[14:29:30] <zeeshan-lab> dude
[14:29:31] <zeeshan-lab> IT SOUNDS SO GOOD
[14:29:32] <zeeshan-lab> lol
[14:29:36] <zeeshan-lab> the solenoids are clicking like mad
[14:30:25] <zeeshan-lab> it seems like
[14:30:29] <zeeshan-lab> P is briging it close
[14:30:35] <zeeshan-lab> but im just going by datalog right now, no graph
[14:32:03] <TekniQue> dicking
[14:32:27] <ssi> zeeshan-lab: I got basic state-based commutation set up on the 7i90 last night
[14:32:40] <ssi> tonight I need to get a servo drive wired up and actually controlling the motor using the state-based commutation
[14:32:53] <ssi> that'll bring me basically back to where I was last october
[14:33:21] <ssi> then I can incoporate the encoder counter I wrote... I need to divide the encoder counter by four and then by 360 to get an electrical angle
[14:33:52] <ssi> and then I can set it up so once the index pulse is observed, and the absolute encoder angle is known, I can switch over to commutating based on electrical angle from the encoder instead of the state table from the fanuc code
[14:35:20] <zeeshan-lab> dude youre hardcore
[14:35:22] <zeeshan-lab> that is all
[14:35:26] <ssi> :D
[14:35:43] <ssi> I'm just really really stubborn
[14:40:48] <zeeshan-lab> that is a good thing
[14:40:58] <zeeshan-lab> i have ocd when it comes to projects
[14:40:59] <zeeshan-lab> brb
[14:42:24] <jdh> cdo
[15:18:56] <zeeshan-laptop> this is looking veryyyyyyyyy familiar.
[15:20:55] <MrSunshine> yeah this is #linuxcnc .. you were here as zeeshan-lab 40 minutes ago :P
[15:21:08] <zeeshan-laptop> lab is still on!
[15:22:23] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/QGZh9ot.png
[15:22:31] <zeeshan-laptop> doesn't this look familar!
[15:22:32] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[15:28:32] <PetefromTn_> HOLY CRAP!!
http://nerdist.com/this-new-ride-might-send-you-to-another-dimension/ I am getting sick just watching that thing LOL
[15:29:06] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[15:29:08] <zeeshan-laptop> that looks intense
[15:29:31] <PetefromTn_> There is some SERIOUS engineering built into that monster...
[15:30:01] <SpeedEvil> A ride that sent you to another dimension could klien up.
[15:30:57] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/DwzEbsO.png < kp=0.2
[15:31:09] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/QGZh9ot.png <= kp=1
[15:31:14] <zeeshan-laptop> why is the overshoot less?
[15:31:37] <zeeshan-laptop> with more kp
[15:31:38] <ssi> PetefromTn_: they had a one man version of that at spacecamp when I was a kid :P
[15:31:40] <PetefromTn_> Just picked up another couple 12' bars of 6061 for a job and DAMN was it pouring in Knoxville...
[15:32:01] <PetefromTn_> LOL one time...at space camp...!!
[15:32:23] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: reminds me of contact
[15:32:26] <XXCoder> the movie
[15:32:47] <XXCoder> books very good, movie not so good but pretty good
[15:32:49] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: 'I stuck a nozzle in my flame trench'
[15:32:50] <PetefromTn_> I have seen the eccentric round version of that without motors and holds a single person by hands and feet
[15:33:06] <zeeshan-laptop> oh just read book "A proportional controller will have the effect of reducing the rise time and will reduce, but never eliminate, the steady-state error."
[15:33:16] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:33:18] <zeeshan-laptop> nothing about overshoot though
[15:33:46] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: do you have ay Kd in there?
[15:33:51] <zeeshan-laptop> no
[15:33:53] <zeeshan-laptop> everything else is 0
[15:34:01] <ssi> start mixing in a little Kd
[15:34:01] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi you should know this
[15:34:04] <zeeshan-laptop> its fresh in your mind
[15:34:05] <ssi> start with like -0.01
[15:34:08] <Crom> I have this rotomold for a King Kong lifesize, can I borrow your ride
[15:34:09] <zeeshan-laptop> im trying to do zieger
[15:34:24] <zeeshan-laptop> i totally forgot if overshoot gets worse with more kp
[15:34:25] <zeeshan-laptop> i thought it did
[15:34:28] <zeeshan-laptop> im observing the other way
[15:34:33] <ssi> not necessarily overshoot
[15:34:38] <ssi> but ringing/oscillation
[15:34:53] <ssi> increasing Kp will increase the rise time
[15:34:57] <ssi> but at some point it'll oscillate
[15:35:08] <zeeshan-laptop> yes lemme try increasing more
[15:35:39] <zeeshan-laptop> this is so much fun
[15:35:43] <ssi> lol
[15:35:55] <PetefromTn_> wtf are you working on?
[15:36:07] <zeeshan-laptop> my school apparatus
[15:36:08] <zeeshan-laptop> tuning pressure
[15:36:11] <ssi> and re the steady state error
[15:36:14] <ssi> that's what Ki is fore
[15:36:21] <zeeshan-laptop> yes im hoping to hit marginally stable
[15:36:27] <zeeshan-laptop> then grab the values for ki and kd from there
[15:36:30] <zeeshan-laptop> to get a base point
[15:36:34] <ssi> steady state error will accumulate in the integral term and put pressure toward the set point
[15:37:17] <ssi> a negative Kd term puts pressure away from the setpoint based on the rate of change of error
[15:37:25] <ssi> which is how you'll avoid overshoot
[15:37:44] <ssi> when it's slewing hard toward the setpoint, the negative Kd will put pressure away from the setpoint to keep it from overshooting
[15:38:17] <PetefromTn_> ssi Did you ever build that rocket?
[15:38:20] <ssi> nah
[15:38:28] <ssi> I have enough damn projects :D
[15:38:35] <PetefromTn_> I feel ya there
[15:38:47] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: He did, it was a dud
[15:38:51] <PCW> Also the overshoot may be because you are stepping the setpoint
[15:38:57] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[15:39:16] <PetefromTn_> I will ignite my kids testors rocket in your name just to make you feel better about it
[15:39:19] <XXCoder> I made lot rockets, orbited quite a few of em
[15:39:23] <ssi> yea infinite accel basically :)
[15:39:25] <XXCoder> landed on both moons
[15:39:30] <ssi> XXCoder: yea me too :P
[15:39:31] <XXCoder> almost landed intact on 4th planet
[15:39:45] <XXCoder> heh
[15:40:19] <PetefromTn_> you need to attach that rocket to your plane you are building and take one helluva ride!
[15:41:19] <ssi> the smoothing plane or the shoulder plane? :P
[15:41:30] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi i really finally get
[15:41:33] <zeeshan-laptop> pid control dude
[15:41:37] <PCW> note that you cannot do (slew faster than the plant can follow) this and expect reasonable PID behavior if you ise an I term
[15:41:38] <ssi> :)
[15:41:38] <zeeshan-laptop> shit is confusing as hell
[15:41:40] <zeeshan-laptop> but i get it!
[15:41:52] <zeeshan-laptop> tuning im no where close to understanding it
[15:41:56] <zeeshan-laptop> but i understand what P I and D do
[15:42:02] <zeeshan-laptop> its really simple when you think about it at the end
[15:42:02] <ssi> good
[15:42:10] <ssi> do you understand feedforward too?
[15:42:17] <zeeshan-laptop> i didnt realize for a while they were applying to the ERROR curve
[15:42:24] <PCW> I would ignore the overshoot until you start ramping the setpoint
[15:42:32] <ssi> yea it helps to plot the error
[15:42:36] <PetefromTn_> awesome so now you can come over here and tune my servos LOL
[15:42:41] <zeeshan-laptop> no idea on feedforward now
[15:42:49] <zeeshan-laptop> that stuff is too advance right now :P
[15:43:02] <zeeshan-laptop> PCW: im just increasing kp rightnow
[15:43:09] <zeeshan-laptop> and keeping setpoint constant
[15:43:41] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: he's saying rather than have the system try to come from 0 to 2 psi as a step function, ramp it up to 2psi based on some psi/sec slope
[15:43:45] <ssi> the 'accel' limit
[15:44:04] <zeeshan-laptop> oh
[15:44:18] <ssi> looks like your plant can easily achieve 1psi/sec slew
[15:44:20] <zeeshan-laptop> what will that do?
[15:44:29] <zeeshan-laptop> vs step
[15:44:40] <ssi> it'll allow your pid to track more accurately
[15:44:53] <ssi> you can't go from 0 to 2 psi in zero time, ie infinite slew
[15:45:09] <ssi> a step in setpoint requires infinite psi/sec slew in order to track with zero error
[15:45:13] <PCW> also any I term is problematic with stepped stepoints
[15:45:28] <zeeshan-laptop> ah
[15:45:38] <ssi> if you have a Ki term, it'll build up your process variable extremely fast while it's trying to slew infinitely fast
[15:45:40] <zeeshan-laptop> so i need to add something inthe code
[15:45:46] <zeeshan-laptop> to make the setpoint increase in a linear fashion
[15:46:04] <ssi> doesn't necessarily need to be linear
[15:46:07] <ssi> just needs to be non-stepped :)
[15:46:15] <PCW> Isnt that what was desired in the final device?
[15:46:23] <zeeshan-laptop> PCW: yes
[15:46:51] <zeeshan-laptop> hmm gonna have to think about how to implement the slew
[15:47:38] <ssi> even just a series of small steps would be better
[15:48:30] <PCW> yeah small steps will disappear in the noise/loop bandwidth
[15:51:06] <zeeshan-laptop> looking at my code, i need to have some sort of increment counter that is a multiple of the base period
[15:51:14] <zeeshan-laptop> that should make it relatively easy to increase it
[15:51:34] <ssi> are you using hal to do all this?
[15:51:44] <zeeshan-laptop> no
[15:51:44] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[15:51:49] <zeeshan-laptop> really brutal way..
[15:51:55] <zeeshan-laptop> im datalogging to a text file
[15:51:59] <zeeshan-laptop> throwing it in matlab and plotting
[15:52:04] <ssi> I mean
[15:52:07] <ssi> what's doing your PID
[15:52:10] <ssi> what's setting your setpoint
[15:52:18] <zeeshan-laptop> ive got it hard coded in the code right now
[15:52:32] <ssi> WHAT CODE
[15:52:34] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[15:52:36] <zeeshan-laptop> sec
[15:52:49] <ssi> heh
[15:53:26] <zeeshan-laptop> http://pastebin.com/u0hAEWyD
[15:53:27] <zeeshan-laptop> this code!
[15:53:37] <ssi> wtf is that
[15:53:39] <ssi> C#?
[15:53:43] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[15:53:45] <zeeshan-laptop> don't laugh
[15:53:45] <ssi> lolol
[15:53:50] <zeeshan-laptop> had to use it!
[15:54:07] <zeeshan-laptop> its garbage
[15:54:08] <zeeshan-laptop> that is all
[15:54:26] <ssi> ok so right now you've got a hacked in hard-coded set point
[15:54:31] <zeeshan-laptop> yea
[15:54:34] <zeeshan-laptop> so im gonna make another variable
[15:54:35] <ssi> you can hack in a hard-coded ramp for it
[15:54:36] <zeeshan-laptop> and have a counter
[15:54:40] <ssi> like if t < setP, setP = t
[15:54:47] <ssi> that'll limit you to 1psi/sec slew on startup
[15:54:57] <zeeshan-laptop> t?
[15:54:58] <zeeshan-laptop> time?
[15:55:00] <ssi> yes
[15:55:04] <ssi> at 0s, setp will be 0
[15:55:06] <zeeshan-laptop> you mean setP += t
[15:55:17] <ssi> at 1s, setp will be 1, at 2s, setp will be 2, at t > 2, setp will be 2
[15:55:17] <zeeshan-laptop> im gonna make t = my base period
[15:55:24] <ssi> that gives you a 1psi/sec startup slew
[15:55:27] <zeeshan-laptop> or 3x base period
[15:55:30] <ssi> it's hacky but workable
[15:55:30] <zeeshan-laptop> my base period is 150ms
[15:55:50] <Jymmm> mS?! no no no no.... nS!!!!
[15:55:51] <zeeshan-laptop> the last time i had this much fun
[15:55:55] <zeeshan-laptop> was driving 1/4 mile in the rx7
[15:55:59] <ssi> I'm not concerned about the period, just the t relative to startup
[15:56:04] <zeeshan-laptop> its crazy how the little things can be so joyful
[15:58:12] <ssi> I'm gonna hack some code into your paste
[15:58:19] <ssi> it's not gonna be complete or even syntactically correct
[15:58:24] <ssi> but it'll give you the gist of what I'm talking about
[15:58:28] <zeeshan-laptop> i get you!
[15:59:39] <ssi> http://pastebin.com/k4Tdih9X
[16:00:07] <zeeshan-laptop> lemme read that
[16:00:13] <ssi> also your I and D calcs aren't exactly right I don't think
[16:00:19] <zeeshan-laptop> you added a couple lines after while
[16:00:21] <zeeshan-laptop> and right before while
[16:00:22] <zeeshan-laptop> right?
[16:00:26] <ssi> they don't take ∆t into account at all
[16:00:26] <ssi> yeah
[16:00:32] <zeeshan-laptop> they dont need to
[16:00:53] <ssi> don't they?
[16:00:54] <zeeshan-laptop> because they get mulitplied by gain
[16:00:58] <zeeshan-laptop> so its factored in the gain
[16:01:00] <zeeshan-laptop> the dt that is
[16:01:08] <ssi> I don't think that's accurate
[16:01:20] <zeeshan-laptop> some people do Kd * slope / dt
[16:01:26] <ssi> I know in theory the timestep won't change
[16:01:30] <zeeshan-laptop> some people do K * slope
[16:01:34] <zeeshan-laptop> where K already has a dt in it
[16:01:42] <ssi> but to do it correctly you want to differentiate/integrate properly based on dt and then multiply by the gain
[16:01:51] <ssi> that way the gain is normalized
[16:01:56] <zeeshan-laptop> youre right
[16:01:59] <ssi> and will work for different base periods
[16:02:03] <zeeshan-laptop> but you can factor it in the gain
[16:02:03] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[16:02:10] <zeeshan-laptop> thats the proper way
[16:02:12] <zeeshan-laptop> but my base period wont change
[16:02:21] <ssi> don't make excuses for shoddy work :D
[16:02:23] <zeeshan-laptop> its just a scaling issue
[16:02:24] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[16:02:44] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi would you trust me to build a throttle body pid for a car?
[16:02:46] <zeeshan-laptop> cause i wouldnt
[16:02:49] <zeeshan-laptop> enough said!
[16:02:50] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
[16:03:01] <ssi> I don't trust you as far as I can throw you!
[16:03:06] <ssi> but that's mostly because you're canadian
[16:03:10] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[16:03:19] <ssi> actually it's mostly because you're an engineering student
[16:03:20] <zeeshan-laptop> ok lemme read the code
[16:03:28] <zeeshan-laptop> im so far from an engineering student
[16:03:32] <ssi> but you're finally starting to figure out how much you don't know, so it's getting better :)
[16:03:32] <zeeshan-laptop> dont bring me down like that :(
[16:03:55] <zeeshan-laptop> im always challenging myself doing stuff i shouldnt be doing
[16:04:01] <zeeshan-laptop> that i wasn't taught on how to do
[16:04:06] <ssi> I hope you enjoyed the period of your life when you knew everything
[16:04:09] <ssi> because it's all downhill from here
[16:04:11] <ssi> :D
[16:04:16] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[16:04:23] <zeeshan-laptop> i know this much
[16:04:31] <zeeshan-laptop> i know a lot more than my engineering co-students
[16:04:35] <ssi> oh I don't doubt it
[16:04:36] <zeeshan-laptop> like ten fold more
[16:04:41] <ssi> engineering students are idiots
[16:04:44] <ssi> I thought we established this?!
[16:04:55] <zeeshan-laptop> i asked 4 people that told me they were good with controls
[16:04:57] <zeeshan-laptop> and showed them my code
[16:05:00] <zeeshan-laptop> and asked for help
[16:05:02] <zeeshan-laptop> they had NO clue
[16:05:21] <zeeshan-laptop> one guy didnt even know what a solenoid was
[16:05:31] <zeeshan-laptop> these are my friends who has an A+ avg
[16:05:37] <zeeshan-laptop> *have
[16:05:55] <zeeshan-laptop> that being said, if you ask them to solve a differential equation analytically
[16:06:01] <zeeshan-laptop> or set it up numerically
[16:06:04] <ssi> yeah see
[16:06:07] <ssi> that was you last year
[16:06:08] <zeeshan-laptop> they can do it really fast, (so can i!)
[16:06:08] <ssi> you remember?
[16:06:18] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[16:06:22] <zeeshan-laptop> but stuff like this doesn't need that
[16:06:31] <zeeshan-laptop> im building a quick and dirty thing
[16:06:33] <ssi> you remember telling me that I was an idiot because I said to throw away ZN and tune empirically?
[16:06:36] <ssi> :)
[16:06:48] <zeeshan-laptop> i still think zn is good for my current app
[16:06:50] <zeeshan-laptop> gives starting points
[16:06:52] <ssi> you're right!
[16:06:59] <ssi> ZN is designed for slow plant controls like that
[16:07:21] <zeeshan-laptop> why does it fail for fast
[16:07:56] <ssi> well for one thing because it's very very hard to have an accurate mathematical model of a cnc servo system
[16:08:11] <zeeshan-laptop> what is this hardcoded 2
[16:08:18] <ssi> that's me being lazy
[16:08:23] <zeeshan-laptop> youre copying the value of setp
[16:08:26] <Deejay> gn8
[16:08:30] <zeeshan-laptop> and ensuring it stays
[16:08:31] <zeeshan-laptop> doesnt changeo k
[16:08:32] <ssi> I'm reusing the var name setP
[16:08:45] <ssi> there should be something like requested_setp and actual_setp
[16:08:56] <zeeshan-laptop> a servo model
[16:09:00] <zeeshan-laptop> is really easy though
[16:09:06] <ssi> eventually what you're going to want to do is create a function which takes the requested setpoint and outputs an actual slew-limited setpoint
[16:09:07] <zeeshan-laptop> so is the mechanical aspect
[16:09:12] <zeeshan-laptop> the problem is when you get shit like friction
[16:09:19] <zeeshan-laptop> and non linear disturbances
[16:09:28] <ssi> there are other reasons zn doesn't work but honestly I don't remember what they are
[16:09:34] <ssi> I ain't one em book larnin types
[16:09:35] <zeeshan-laptop> i believe you
[16:09:46] <ssi> I fake it better than most
[16:10:45] <PCW> some overshoot maybe because of the complex non-adiabatic expansion/compression of the air
[16:11:07] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi you dork
[16:11:11] <zeeshan-laptop> whats all this t bs
[16:11:19] <zeeshan-laptop> youre basically getting the loop time in delta_t
[16:11:23] <zeeshan-laptop> that is the period!
[16:11:24] <ssi> YEP
[16:11:24] <zeeshan-laptop> :
[16:11:26] <zeeshan-laptop> :P
[16:11:41] <zeeshan-laptop> i just gotta copy your stuff but make it
[16:11:43] <zeeshan-laptop> t+= period
[16:11:46] <zeeshan-laptop> if blah blah
[16:11:46] <ssi> that's fine
[16:11:47] <zeeshan-laptop> thats it
[16:11:54] <ssi> t is the time since 0
[16:11:59] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[16:12:00] <ssi> 0 being the time before the loop starts
[16:12:46] <ssi> you should throw this away and rewrite it in golang
[16:13:04] <ssi> then you can have a goroutine running your loop, and another goroutine handling the slew limiting function of your input
[16:13:17] <ssi> and you'll be learning an awesome language as a side effect
[16:13:28] <ssi> one that is good for running on small systems like raspis and bbbs
[16:13:35] <ssi> and is free from microsoftasshattery
[16:14:48] <zeeshan-laptop> too late :P
[16:15:00] <zeeshan-laptop> PCW: you do know you're too smart for me when it comes to PID?
[16:15:09] <zeeshan-laptop> you gotta dumb down when trying to communicate with me
[16:15:10] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[16:15:26] <jdh> guy at work was all excited to run win10 on his raspi
[16:16:07] <ssi> it's really tricky trying to get help from PCW... he knows how to solve all your problems, but he assumes a very high level of starting competence in his advice :D
[16:16:14] <PCW> I'm excited everytime I install linux over a windows drive
[16:17:17] <Computer_barf> I can only assume that windows 10 would run like shit on a pi
[16:17:29] <ssi> is windows 10 a thing?
[16:17:33] <ssi> I thought state of the art was 8
[16:18:06] <Computer_barf> ten is out soonish , and some betas already out
[16:18:13] <ssi> every other windows release is tolerable, and the ones between are crap... 7 was tolerable and 8 is crap
[16:18:22] <ssi> did they decide to skip 9 because writing a tolerable os is a lot of work?
[16:19:00] <jdh> I heard there was code that looked for the literal "Windows 9"
[16:19:06] <jdh> for 95/98
[16:20:24] <ssi> yea possibly
[16:22:59] <PetefromTn_> I actually quite like 8
[16:24:30] <ssi> you probably liked ME then too huh
[16:24:34] <ssi> and vista
[16:24:44] <PetefromTn_> never used either sorry
[16:36:12] <skunksleep> At work we are finally deploying 7 machines
[16:38:42] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean deploying?
[16:40:44] <skunksleep> Replacing xp\2000 machines
[16:41:08] <MrSunshine> sigh
[16:41:14] <MrSunshine> the only windows OSes that was realy usable
[16:42:06] <MrSunshine> a computer should be a computer, not a frekkin giant tablet
[16:42:09] <MrSunshine> idiots :/
[16:42:17] <Connor> MrSunshine: Windows 7 isn't bad.
[16:42:31] <zeeshan-laptop> i love windows 7!
[16:42:36] <zeeshan-laptop> its stable as hell
[16:42:39] <Connor> ME, Vista, 8.0 and 8.1 suck
[16:42:46] <MrSunshine> have windows 8 on my work machine now and sure it works .. but took me 2 days to get sound working .. "properly" ...
[16:42:47] <zeeshan-laptop> i wonder if 10 will bebetter
[16:42:56] <zeeshan-laptop> apparently 10 is the last windows version
[16:43:06] <MrSunshine> wrong outputs .. 5.1 not working etc etc
[16:43:26] <PetefromTn_> have windows 8 on my laptop and desktop and it works really good no issues and have not even had many virus' issues
[16:43:35] <MrSunshine> they nee dto stop grinding out versions
[16:43:45] <MrSunshine> and make something that works and is available a long time
[16:43:59] <MrSunshine> driver support etc suffers like crazy from this version frenzy
[16:51:36] <zeeshan-laptop> hi ssi
[16:51:37] <zeeshan-laptop> wake up!
[16:51:44] <zeeshan-laptop> finally got the bug sorted out with the ramp
[16:51:48] <zeeshan-laptop> silly math!
[16:51:50] <ssi> haha ok
[16:52:16] <zeeshan-laptop> images coming
[16:54:32] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/5KrJd1f.png
[16:54:34] <zeeshan-laptop> kp=1
[16:55:10] <zeeshan-laptop> erm
[16:55:12] <zeeshan-laptop> lost track
[16:55:12] <zeeshan-laptop> sec
[16:55:40] <zeeshan-laptop> that is kp=1
[16:56:17] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/MKYrf7r.png
[16:56:19] <zeeshan-laptop> kp = 6
[16:56:43] <zeeshan-laptop> you can definitely see more oscillation with kp = 6
[16:57:12] <furrywolf> what're you working on?
[16:57:24] <furrywolf> also, want to design a way to make my car work better? :P
[16:57:33] <zeeshan-laptop> furrywolf: pressure control !!!
[16:57:35] <zeeshan-laptop> its working!!!!!!!!!!!1
[16:57:44] <zeeshan-laptop> whats wrong with your car
[16:57:49] <zeeshan-laptop> needs more nawz?
[16:57:54] <furrywolf> simple P or PI loop? :P
[16:58:33] <zeeshan-laptop> just P right now
[16:58:46] <zeeshan-laptop> im suprised its hitting my target.
[16:58:51] <zeeshan-laptop> without any i
[16:59:12] <furrywolf> my engine cuts out at WOT between 1000 and 1500 RPM.
[16:59:52] <furrywolf> and I found the problem googling this morning... and it's not easy to fix!
[17:00:18] <zeeshan-laptop> what is it
[17:00:30] <zeeshan-laptop> http://imgur.com/a/M0nXc
[17:00:36] <zeeshan-laptop> kp= 10 definitely oscillating
[17:01:23] <furrywolf> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2335732841_5c1781e4c7_o.png http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2336567174_726e761897_o.png
[17:01:33] <zeeshan-laptop> maf tuning is out?
[17:01:40] <zeeshan-laptop> how does that happen on a stock car
[17:01:46] <zeeshan-laptop> i mean stock ecu
[17:01:47] <zeeshan-laptop> not stock car
[17:02:02] <zeeshan-laptop> did you change the maf with another one?
[17:02:26] <furrywolf> it's an intake resonance issue
[17:02:26] <furrywolf> apparantly if you get rid of the weird odd-shaped lumpy thing that was attached to the airbox... it does that.
[17:02:29] <furrywolf> nothing wrong with the maf. it's correctly measuring the airflow... both directions.
[17:03:19] <furrywolf> the original vehicle has a big lumpy thing as part of the air path that apparantly fixes the resonance
[17:03:40] <furrywolf> there's an 83 page thread about the problem, because everyone who replaces the stock airbox with a cone filter runs into it.
[17:04:39] <furrywolf> and guess what? to make my swap fit, I used an aem dryflow, no stock airbox with huge lumpy thing attached...
[17:04:49] <zeeshan-laptop> like a helmholtz resonator
[17:04:52] <zeeshan-laptop> that youre talking about
[17:04:53] <furrywolf> yes
[17:05:10] <furrywolf> I always figured they were just for acoustics. it would seem I was wrong!
[17:05:13] <zeeshan-laptop> so you just need to recalibrate the maf
[17:05:17] <zeeshan-laptop> no
[17:05:19] <zeeshan-laptop> they are for both
[17:05:33] <zeeshan-laptop> usually those things are more efficient than a straight pipe with a filter
[17:05:36] <zeeshan-laptop> if correctly designed
[17:05:40] <furrywolf> no, you can't fix it with recalibration, because the same maf ranges are valid at other times....
[17:06:00] <ssi> zeeshan-laptop: looking good
[17:06:07] <zeeshan-laptop> ssi isnt this cool
[17:06:10] <ssi> yep
[17:06:11] <zeeshan-laptop> doing it from scratch
[17:06:35] <zeeshan-laptop> next time someone tries to give me a compelx definition of pid
[17:06:37] <zeeshan-laptop> im gonna give them a slap
[17:06:50] <zeeshan-laptop> or just be like
[17:06:55] <zeeshan-laptop> "can you put that in simple terms"
[17:06:56] <furrywolf> I read a mention of someone doing a hack that makes the ecu run in fake speed-density mode during that throttle+rpm range, ignoring the MAF entirely. it doesn't have a map sensor, so they just did some kludge at assuming it's at sea level atmospheric and letting it run rich.
[17:07:30] <furrywolf> whoops, my bad. this thread is 78 pages, not 83 pages.
[17:08:06] <zeeshan-laptop> map ftw
[17:08:24] <zeeshan-laptop> what kind of sensor is your maf
[17:08:27] <zeeshan-laptop> i see hz
[17:08:30] <zeeshan-laptop> karman vortex?
[17:08:40] <zeeshan-laptop> actually hz can be anything
[17:09:02] <furrywolf> where does it mention hz? lol
[17:09:04] <furrywolf> I think it's just hot wire.
[17:09:04] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: have you considered attaching a resonator?
[17:09:15] <furrywolf> SpeedEvil: I have considered the utter lack of space to put one, yes.
[17:09:16] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/vTzP2jH.png
[17:09:19] <SpeedEvil> Ah
[17:09:28] <zeeshan-laptop> furrywolf: hmmmmm
[17:09:28] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Large stereo and antinoise
[17:09:35] <zeeshan-laptop> i thought those were prone to resonance issues
[17:09:54] <zeeshan-laptop> wtf is this nonsense
[17:09:56] <zeeshan-laptop> it resonates
[17:09:58] <zeeshan-laptop> then stops then resonates
[17:10:00] <zeeshan-laptop> wut
[17:10:27] <furrywolf> it's nothing about the maf. it's correctly reading the flow over it. the problem is the intake is resonating enough that the air is moving both directions, and the sensor doesn't care how the air is moving over it...
[17:11:49] <furrywolf> I could try some form of shielding around the maf wire, but I suspect that'd cause other problems.
[17:13:04] <Jymmm> Become one with the MAF
[17:13:16] <greg__> interesting which car/engine?
[17:13:38] <furrywolf> greg__: '96 subaru impreza, but it apparantly does it for a lot of years.
[17:14:49] <zeeshan-laptop> how long is your intake
[17:14:54] <furrywolf> best thread I've found on it is
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1471819 - still reading it now.
[17:15:05] <zeeshan-laptop> filter --- length of pipe a-- maf --- length of pipe b
[17:15:07] <furrywolf> about 2ft from throttle body to math, 0ft from maf to air filter.
[17:15:09] <zeeshan-laptop> a=? b = ?
[17:15:13] <furrywolf> s/math/maf
[17:15:36] <zeeshan-laptop> i would add 1 ft
[17:15:38] <zeeshan-laptop> in front of the maf
[17:15:45] <furrywolf> no room!
[17:15:45] <zeeshan-laptop> cone filter yes?
[17:15:54] <zeeshan-laptop> yea dry flow
[17:15:55] <furrywolf> cylinder filter, but same idea.
[17:15:55] <zeeshan-laptop> i remember now
[17:16:17] <zeeshan-laptop> i had issues with blow through maf with karman vortex style
[17:16:22] <zeeshan-laptop> cause i had the maf right after a 90 degree bend
[17:16:31] <zeeshan-laptop> i had to add 1 ft of straight
[17:16:44] <furrywolf> I'm tempted to add some form of swirly vanes in the back of the air filter, to see if they'll affect the airflow in a manner that keeps the resonance away from the maf element
[17:16:54] <zeeshan-laptop> have yseen the diamond mesh
[17:17:01] <zeeshan-laptop> for velocity smoothing ?
[17:17:29] <furrywolf> no
[17:17:40] <zeeshan-laptop> http://www.devonbuy.com/wp-content/uploads/bosch-maf.jpg
[17:18:04] <furrywolf> oh, yeah, I have seen that.
[17:18:05] <zeeshan-laptop> http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/~treadstone/prod_imgs/img-2096-0-large.jpg
[17:18:10] <zeeshan-laptop> that should help
[17:18:12] <furrywolf> I thought you meant some aftermarket product
[17:18:33] <greg__> no add on wil fix that as the entire manifold of the MAF is resonating. Like putting the MAF on the port of a ported subwoofer enclosure
[17:18:47] <furrywolf> bosh: Buy Our Substandard Shit
[17:18:56] <furrywolf> Crappy
[17:19:01] <furrywolf> meh, I'm too tired to be on irc.
[17:19:07] <zeeshan-laptop> greg__ this will add dampening
[17:19:19] * furrywolf got very pissed off at the quality of bmw components
[17:19:20] <zeeshan-laptop> or has needs to weld a resonator
[17:19:39] <furrywolf> I could put a resonator by the throttle body, but there's no room for one at the filter end.
[17:20:06] <furrywolf> there wasn't room on the stock vehicle either... it's a weird thing pretty much blow-molded into the fender, as there wasn't any room under the hood.
[17:21:00] <greg__> I don't think that will give enough dampening to make a difference.
[17:21:37] <greg__> how often are you driving at WOT and <1500rpm?
[17:22:44] <furrywolf> every time you go to accelerate after a corner that wasn't slow enough to downshift for?
[17:23:14] <furrywolf> or when coming off the freeway and you give it a bit of gas to merge, but you're not going slow enough to want to shift down and back up...
[17:23:44] <greg__> OK never happend to me, I just shift
[17:24:20] <furrywolf> you must drive a vehicle that's not meant to have torque. :P
[17:24:30] <greg__> e36 2.8L
[17:25:07] <greg__> Dodge V8 before that, even then I never lugged it like that
[17:27:09] <Cromalious> 5spd 1186cc datsun 411 is a great car to learn to row in
[17:28:15] <Cromalious> now a straight 6 white turbo diesel in a 2 1/2 ton truck... Duece and a half now there is a lugger
[17:28:21] <zeeshan-laptop> kU=2.25 ; Pu=0.75!
[17:30:42] <furrywolf> I really hate my connection.
[17:32:07] <furrywolf> rather than adding a resonator, I could try preconditioning the maf signal... a little uC that, when you're in the region it can't measure (say, >95% throttle at 1000-1500 rpm), feeds a baloney rpm-based maf reading to the ecu...
[17:33:30] <PetefromTn_> Ordered my power supply for the anodizing now I gotta pickup some Deionized water and battery acid and a few other things and I can finally try my hand at this whole anodizing thing!!
[17:34:06] <furrywolf> I could also try fitting a resonator shortly after the throttle body
[17:34:58] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, let me know how it works out... I've done everything but turn my anodizing line on
[17:35:04] <furrywolf> I'd be worried about that much volume between the maf and engine adding hesitation, but I think some of the 2.5 engines had a big one there.
[17:35:17] <JT-Shop> furrywolf, you can have my connection... when it works
[17:40:53] <PetefromTn_> JT-Shop What do you mean?
[17:43:31] <JT-Shop> just wanting to know how your anodizing line works
[17:43:41] <JT-Shop> I have one but have not used it
[17:43:55] <PetefromTn_> well considering I don't know what the hell I am doing here I would not expect too much LOL
[17:44:01] <PetefromTn_> why have you not used it?
[17:44:11] <JT-Shop> I even robbed a chiller unit from a water fountain to chill the acid
[17:44:26] <JT-Shop> just been too busy to fire it up
[17:44:32] <PetefromTn_> I honestly don't plan on chilling unless I absolutely have to
[17:44:54] <PetefromTn_> I was planning on setting up a bubbler to agitate and help remove heat
[17:44:55] <JT-Shop> if you do a small part every now and then your ok
[17:45:12] <PetefromTn_> I honestly don't make all that many parts at least thus far.
[17:45:14] <JT-Shop> bubbles in acid is bad
[17:45:32] <PetefromTn_> I have committed to doing a run of 20 parts in black already tho..
[17:45:33] <JT-Shop> think airborne acid
[17:45:40] <PetefromTn_> huh
[17:45:47] <JT-Shop> from the bubbles
[17:46:02] <PetefromTn_> I have seen several videos of people using bubblers to agitate
[17:46:10] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:46:26] <JT-Shop> do you have the moonlight anodizing book?
[17:46:30] <PetefromTn_> I think I musta watched a thousand anodizing videos on youtube
[17:46:40] <PetefromTn_> never heard of it
[17:47:22] <JT-Shop> it's a step by step by a guy that actually anodizes parts for a living
[17:47:57] <PetefromTn_> wow nice
[17:48:01] <JT-Shop> you need to beware of the hobby anodize vids
[17:48:03] <PetefromTn_> might need to grab one
[17:48:03] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/nWkblAn.png
[17:48:11] <zeeshan-laptop> looks tuned?!?!
[17:48:30] <PetefromTn_> yeah there are a lot of meatheads making videos huh
[17:48:37] <PetefromTn_> like if I made a video ;)
[17:48:57] <JT-Shop> what kind of power supply did you order?
[17:49:16] <PetefromTn_> I got a 30v 10amp variable off ebay
[17:49:28] <PetefromTn_> what do you use?
[17:50:15] <furrywolf> zeeshan-lab: looks nice to me
[17:50:19] <JT-Shop> I use an Astron variable voltage supply
[17:51:21] <PetefromTn_> this is apparently variable voltage and current has course and fine adjustments. No idea if it is worth a shit yet have not even received it.
[17:51:24] <JT-Shop> VS70M power supply
[17:52:02] <JT-Shop> you know about calculating the current density?
[17:52:05] <furrywolf> I have a lambda 0-40V 0-15A, but I've never used it for anodizing.
[17:52:10] <PetefromTn_> looks like a nice unit
[17:52:17] <PetefromTn_> way more expensive than what I bought
[17:52:31] <PetefromTn_> I have read a bit about it. Have not actually done it yet.
[17:53:09] <PetefromTn_> Honestly this is something I have wanted to do for a long time now.
[17:53:44] <PetefromTn_> Hopefully I can find a way to be successful with my setup going to try to get some of the things Capt recommended as far as chemicals, sealers, etc.
[17:53:56] <JT-Shop> generally you want to anodize at 12ASF so if you have 1.5 sq ft your current would be 18amps
[17:54:06] <JT-Shop> for 60 minutes
[17:54:14] <furrywolf> http://www.us.tdk-lambda.com/hp/product_html/emspower1u.htm I have the ems-40-15. highly recommended if you need a benchtop power supply.
[17:54:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah most of my parts are not very big
[17:54:38] <JT-Shop> what alloy are you anodizing?
[17:54:48] <PetefromTn_> 6061 and 7075
[17:55:08] <JT-Shop> both of those are done at 15v
[17:55:13] <MrHindsight> hiyah Pete
[17:55:53] <PetefromTn_> the parts I have to get blackened here as soon as possible are about six inches long and less than 2" wide 3/4 thick
[17:55:59] <PetefromTn_> Hey Mrhindsight
[17:56:02] <PetefromTn_> howsitgoing
[17:56:15] <JT-Shop> solid with no holes?
[17:56:23] <PetefromTn_> no lots of holes..
[17:56:26] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[17:57:03] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/GYPSk3l.jpg one half of this basic part.... but slightly different shape
[17:57:46] <JT-Shop> do you have a 3-d cad model of the part?
[17:57:59] <JT-Shop> nice part btw
[17:58:00] <PetefromTn_> no I don't bother for my own parts usually LOL
[17:58:02] <PetefromTn_> thanks
[17:58:13] <PetefromTn_> I have to make twenty of each here soon
[17:58:21] <JT-Shop> all those holes add surface area
[17:58:52] <PetefromTn_> hang on my wife is calling me
[18:00:26] <JT-Shop> http://d1.amobbs.com/bbs_upload782111/files_11/ourdev_487933.pdf
[18:00:37] <furrywolf> of all the options I can think of for fixing the resonance issue, the best I've come up with is a little box that prefilters the maf signal.
[18:01:35] <JT-Shop> bbl
[18:01:42] <PetefromTn_> what is that?
[18:10:02] <Jymmm> furrywolf: How can a MAF sensor get a resonance issue after all these years?
[18:11:25] <Jymmm> speculating that a replacement MAF sensor doens't resolve the issue.
[18:12:17] <Jymmm> And since it's smog related, what is the dealer solution to the know problem?
[18:12:37] <Jymmm> or even the forums
[18:13:40] <Jymmm> Lastly, most vape shops sell NiChrome = if you don't have any =)
[18:16:19] <greg__> won't filtering the MAF signal just give you some value smaller than the peaks, but still larger than what is real?
[18:18:56] <greg__> MAF is reading flow correctly, but the MAF can't tell which way air if moving.
[18:23:15] <malcom2073> Fortunatly, changing your intake tubing pre-maf renders the maf reading quite error-prone anyway, so filtering shouldn't have a negative effect :P
[18:25:30] <Jymmm> I say toss in a 10M resister is series =)
[18:26:42] <Jymmm> or conenct to the temp and o2 sensor so all three act as one =)
[18:27:09] <malcom2073> Also, who WOT's at 1800rpm? Diesel engine?
[18:27:16] <PetefromTn_> You guys are awesome... Just wanted to say how much I appreciate all of you and your willingness to help others on here
[18:27:16] <Jymmm> oh, and the low washer fluid sensor too
[18:27:45] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: No need to thank us, we withdrawl directly from your accounts.
[18:27:58] <PetefromTn_> heh
[18:28:00] <malcom2073> Lol
[18:28:08] <PetefromTn_> then you must be pissed!
[18:35:03] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ what's that part for?
[18:35:28] <zeeshan-laptop> malcom2073: no it doesnt
[18:35:39] <zeeshan-laptop> youre allowing the flow to become fully developed
[18:36:00] <zeeshan-laptop> almost all the oem cars ive seen have either a complex air intake system
[18:36:10] <zeeshan-laptop> or tubing prior to maf
[18:36:17] <zeeshan-laptop> having a filter right at the maf is pretty bad
[18:36:28] <zeeshan-laptop> you want at least 4" of tube in front of it
[18:36:39] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[18:39:21] <PetefromTn_> It's just a clamp
[18:40:20] <PetefromTn_> its for a remote resorvoir shock
[18:41:02] <MrHindsight> what's the deal with vapes and wheeny little coils
[18:41:39] <MrHindsight> does anyone make a large battery pack and coil, picturing a pipe size device vs a cigar
[18:43:12] <MrHindsight> at some point the explosive battery pack and 20W heating coil inches from your face must a liability
[18:48:41] <t12> vape culture is pretty lol
[18:48:47] <t12> cant tell if vape culture or 420 culture is worse
[18:55:29] <MattyMatt> get a disco fog machine, and pour in a bucket of nicotine
[18:55:36] <ssi> hm
[19:04:00] <malcom2073> zeeshan-laptop: *changing*
[19:04:04] <malcom2073> As in, non stock
[19:08:51] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: What are you babbling about?
[19:09:36] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: 20W coil, HA! Try sub ohm coils =)
[19:10:47] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I always hear complaints about how they don't produce enough smoke
[19:10:55] <Jymmm> MrHindsight: I run a dual coil setup around 45W
[19:11:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Those are the "cloud chasers",
[19:11:32] <CaptHindsight> DIY or are they available off the shelf?
[19:11:53] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: No, those are people
[19:12:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: my coils? I wind them myself
[19:12:56] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I just have a mech mod, nothing fancy
[19:13:30] <PetefromTn_> so you make and sell these things?
[19:13:43] <Jymmm> No
[19:15:03] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The "cloud chaser" people think it's a status symbol to make bigger clouds, "braid" their coils and other such crap
[19:16:36] <malcom2073> lol
[19:16:46] <malcom2073> Vape nuts are even nuttier than say, the audiophile crowd
[19:17:27] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Oh, no, not by a long shot. Audiophile's still the nuttiest of them all
[19:17:55] <CaptHindsight> you just don't have ears sensitive enough to hear the distortion :)
[19:17:58] <malcom2073> Lol
[19:18:08] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[19:18:23] <malcom2073> I guess if I paid $10k for audio cables, I'd pretend my ears could hear the difference too
[19:18:32] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: From the 18K gold connectors or the 24K ones?
[19:18:37] <CaptHindsight> don't be a hater :)
[19:18:47] <malcom2073> :-P
[19:18:53] <malcom2073> Jymmm: 48k!
[19:19:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: no wait, I meant the $400/ft of 18ga speaker wire
[19:19:30] <PetefromTn_> you mean they don't work?
[19:20:17] <malcom2073> PetefromTn_: They work fine
[19:20:25] <CaptHindsight> 3D printed speaker wire?
[19:21:23] <SpeedEvil> I have considered making gold speaker wire.
[19:21:48] <SpeedEvil> But that was more due to the fact that gold doesn't work-harden, and the amount needed for 2*16R cables @1.2m isn't a lot
[19:22:49] <DaViruz> i don't think i've ever had a problem with excessive work harderning of speaker cables
[19:23:53] <DaViruz> http://i.imgur.com/XFUHOEE.png
[19:24:10] <DaViruz> i've been machining a bunch of these bits the last days however, they seem to work harden a bit
[19:24:39] <DaViruz> (never mind the messy clamping)
[19:24:41] <CaptHindsight> where does one get the audio source from these days? CD's were proven inferior to vinyl by "audiophiles" in the 80's
[19:25:01] <zeeshan-laptop> http://i.imgur.com/VgCZb0T.png
[19:25:03] <zeeshan-laptop> boy this looks bad ass
[19:25:04] <zeeshan-laptop> lol
[19:25:55] <CaptHindsight> looks pretty noisy
[19:26:05] <zeeshan-laptop> thus the filter!
[19:26:28] <CaptHindsight> 1 second intervals?
[19:26:33] <zeeshan-laptop> no
[19:26:36] <zeeshan-laptop> .15
[19:27:36] <CaptHindsight> is it picking up vibration from outside the chamber?
[19:27:59] <zeeshan-laptop> not sure :P
[19:28:11] <CaptHindsight> or what is the pressure differential across?
[19:28:20] <zeeshan-laptop> wat
[19:28:44] <CaptHindsight> how is it measuring pressure?
[19:29:57] <zeeshan-laptop> pressure transducer
[19:29:59] <zeeshan-laptop> i made a video!
[19:30:04] <zeeshan-laptop> hopeflly its not too boring
[19:30:14] <CaptHindsight> what type of transducer?
[19:30:39] <CaptHindsight> no problem I watched a 30 minute video earlier of paint drying
[19:30:52] <zeeshan-laptop> video still processing
[19:30:54] <zeeshan-laptop> ;/
[19:40:57] <zeeshan-laptop> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN-1Rv3BBxY
[19:40:59] <zeeshan-laptop> go to like 3 min
[19:41:03] <zeeshan-laptop> to see the pressure setup
[19:45:48] <Valen> pressure should be controlled within .2 Celsius zeeshan-laptop?
[19:45:55] <zeeshan-laptop> yes
[19:45:57] <zeeshan-laptop> :-)
[19:46:01] <zeeshan-laptop> is that what i said
[19:46:02] <zeeshan-laptop> haha
[19:46:05] <Valen> yes
[19:49:01] <zeeshan-laptop> i really feel like adding a restrictor on the inlet
[19:49:07] <zeeshan-laptop> would make things a bit more smoother
[19:49:09] <CaptHindsight> you're measuring pressure far from the inside of the chamber
[19:49:30] <Valen> why use solenoids when you are trying for an even pressure?
[19:49:52] <zeeshan-laptop> valen what do you mean an even pressure
[19:49:53] <Valen> use needle valves
[19:50:04] <jdh> Proportion-Air BB2
[19:50:10] <Valen> you are upset about how your pressure is all over the place?
[19:50:26] <zeeshan-laptop> im happy as hell
[19:50:32] <zeeshan-laptop> not upset at all
[19:50:43] <zeeshan-laptop> .2 psi band is not all over the place
[19:50:45] <jdh> looked pretty good for banging a solenoid
[19:50:46] <zeeshan-laptop> at least not for me
[19:50:57] <zeeshan-laptop> and needle valves are $$$$$$$
[19:51:02] <zeeshan-laptop> i have a ton of these solenoids
[19:51:31] <Valen> fair enough, it sounded like you were unhappy with it
[19:51:41] <zeeshan-laptop> i think the needle valve is a good idea
[19:51:45] <zeeshan-laptop> for a resistrictor
[19:52:03] <zeeshan-laptop> for some reason i had an orifice in mind
[19:52:05] <CaptHindsight> how many PSI to get the balloon to pop?
[19:52:16] <zeeshan-laptop> you want a video one one blowing up? :D
[19:52:25] <zeeshan-laptop> depends on the temp a lot
[19:52:26] <zeeshan-laptop> if its 20C
[19:52:30] <zeeshan-laptop> around 25 psi
[19:52:48] <zeeshan-laptop> if -10c , about 35
[19:52:56] <zeeshan-laptop> at 60C about 5
[19:53:18] <zeeshan-laptop> sounds really sweet when it blows up at 25psi
[19:53:26] <zeeshan-laptop> kaboom , echos through the lab
[19:54:16] <CaptHindsight> who was narrating the video?
[19:54:28] <zeeshan-laptop> me
[19:54:28] <zeeshan-laptop> !
[19:55:02] <CaptHindsight> so when do you get reviewed? late summer?
[19:55:27] <zeeshan-laptop> march or april 2016
[19:55:46] <zeeshan-laptop> trying to finish it this summer.. would be nice
[19:55:51] <zeeshan-laptop> cause then i can get a job and make money
[19:55:56] <zeeshan-laptop> tired of student salary!
[19:56:13] <CaptHindsight> heh, students here have to pay
[19:56:22] <CaptHindsight> you're gettin paid
[19:56:34] <zeeshan-laptop> woulda never done masters without getting pay
[19:56:37] <zeeshan-laptop> its completely unaffordable
[19:56:46] <zeeshan-laptop> if i didnt have my side business, i would be broke
[19:57:09] <zeeshan-laptop> thats why in usa, a lot of people who do graduate studies are either on scholarships
[19:57:13] <zeeshan-laptop> or rich parents
[19:57:36] <jdh> I finished paying off my student loans for mine a few months ago
[19:57:38] <CaptHindsight> can you declare bankruptcy in Canada if you can't make your student loans?
[19:58:53] <zeeshan-laptop> ya CaptHindsight, but you get screwed for 6 years
[19:59:03] <zeeshan-laptop> jdh: how long ago did you finish school
[19:59:54] <jdh> 4 years?
[20:00:01] <zeeshan-laptop> thats not bad
[20:00:22] <jdh> it wasn't much of a degree
[20:00:23] <zeeshan-laptop> okay its home time!!!!!!
[20:00:28] <zeeshan-laptop> what was it
[20:00:31] <jdh> but, it looks good enough on paper.
[20:00:43] <jdh> MS, Industrial Technology
[20:00:47] <zeeshan-laptop> i know enough people that wont hire wihout masters
[20:00:52] <zeeshan-laptop> if you wanna work in in r&d
[20:01:01] <zeeshan-laptop> it wasnt like that back in the day =/
[20:01:02] <jdh> I want to not work
[20:01:18] <zeeshan-laptop> you just wanna dive!
[20:01:32] <zeeshan-laptop> bbl
[20:01:36] <jdh> nah.... I'd like to bike when I wasn't diving.
[20:07:42] <ssi> I just did so many barrel rolls
[20:07:43] <ssi> lol
[20:08:28] <jdh> in a plane? or with google?
[20:08:32] <ssi> in a plane :P
[20:10:08] <furrywolf> Jymmm: becuase the maf sensor (and the rest of the engine) has been transplanted to a different vehicle with a different intake. forum solution just says to put the stock airbox back in and stop being a stupid ricer, but that's not helpful when the problem is it's not in the same car...
[20:10:24] <ssi> standalone
[20:12:59] <furrywolf> I've never done a barrel roll, and not sure I care to. being wheelbarrowed, on the other hand....
[20:23:38] <greg__> Measure resonator volume with water. duplicate joining tube cross section area and length and make your own resonator
[20:25:00] <furrywolf> I'd have to put it by the throttle body before the MAF rather than at the air filter after the MAF... not sure that'd have the same effect.
[20:25:44] <furrywolf> I have plenty of room on top of the tranny, and none over at the fender.
[20:27:07] <furrywolf> hrmm, which way is before and after when it comes to intake plumbing? lol
[20:29:22] <furrywolf> apparantly on some other years you can fix the problem in ecu mapping... I'm tempted to emulate that with a little uC stuck in the maf wiring.
[20:29:53] <furrywolf> apparantly the ecu that can fix it (for an 11 year newer model than mine) has a table with throttle position and engine rpm, giving maf scaling factor.
[20:30:14] <furrywolf> so if you know that a combination of throttle position and engine rpm causes the maf to suck, you can enter that...
[20:31:14] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Well, tit you try the stock airbox at least?
[20:31:19] <Jymmm> did*
[20:32:01] <furrywolf> so I'd just need to monitor the TPS (0-5V analog) and rpm (tach signal, who knows what it looks like, probably just run through a capacitor and filter for zero crossings), and then either output a signal to an analog multiplier to scale the maf signal, or read the maf (0-5V), scale in software, output with dac...
[20:32:08] <furrywolf> no. I do not have a stock airbox. never had one.
[20:32:36] <furrywolf> and the part in question is stuffed inside the fender, so you have to take the fender off the car to pull it, making it hard to get from a junkyard easily.
[20:33:08] <Jymmm> well then, stop being a stupid ricer =)
[20:33:40] <furrywolf> as it turns out, my choice if a different intake was due to their being no way to fit the stock one...
[20:33:45] <furrywolf> there
[20:33:58] <Jymmm> That always bugs me; the crap they engineer into the fenderwells
[20:34:28] <Jymmm> hondas do half/most of the washer reservoir in the fender
[20:35:30] <Jymmm> That reminds me, I need to find lens for my headlights
[20:35:32] <RyanS> archivist, do you know much about this style of voltmeter?
http://www.urbanremainschicago.com/products/old-electric-switchboard-components/hard-to-find-early-20th-century-american-antique-industrial-cast-iron-weston-voltmeter-with-original-swing-out-cast-iron-bracket.html or
http://ogtstore.com/architectural/special-finds/original-antique-voltmeter/
[20:37:01] <Jymmm> DC, so that would have been Edison, not Tesla
[20:37:43] <furrywolf> what do you want to know about it? that (the second link, I skipped the too-long-to-paste one) works just like a modern analog panel meter.
[20:38:32] <furrywolf> also, be warned many such items for sale online are stolen by dealers pretending to be urbexers and taking a lot more than photos.
[20:39:54] <Computer_barf> urbexers?
[20:40:57] <furrywolf> urban explorers
[20:41:20] <furrywolf> people who expore abandonned structures for fun. standard code of conduct is to "take only photos" - that is, don't steal shit.
[20:41:30] <furrywolf> explore
[20:43:07] <RyanS> could they be used safely? or perhaps better to stick a servo and mini arduino inside
[20:43:19] <Computer_barf> ahh. I don't go full mutualist but it sounds alot like abandoned property.
[20:43:40] <furrywolf> common places to explore include old hospitals and mental institutions, factories, power plants, sewers, mines, etc.
[20:44:10] <Computer_barf> in detroit there was alot of that.
[20:44:47] <greg__> what kind of a car did you put the subie boxer in?
[20:44:54] <furrywolf> perhaps, but normally the police let them go if they get caught and they say they were just exploring. when others start stealing stuff, then the cops start assuming they're there to steal stuff, and everyone suffers.
[20:45:00] <furrywolf> greg__: '84 subaru wagon
[20:46:09] <greg__> I know somebody who has explored buildings in detroit sounds pretty scary with the type of people that tend to hang out at those places
[20:46:13] <furrywolf> the few people stealing stuff result in everyone having to deal with cops, barricaded entrances, etc. same with the people who get themselves hurt, and property owners and government busybodies then decide sites are lawsuit-bait and need to be demolished or barricaded...
[20:46:51] <RyanS> im designing a 'steampunk' lamp but something that actually has functioning mechanisms, not just slap plumbing fittings togther
[20:46:56] <Computer_barf> yeah im hearing alot of collectivist rhetoric
[20:47:46] <furrywolf> what type of lamp needs a meter? :P
[20:48:24] <furrywolf> machine a piece of steel to look like an old meter housing, age it with some acid then wire brush it, stick a modern panel meter behind the window in it.
[20:48:26] <Computer_barf> anyway opens up a wider debate than the wife arriving allows for
[20:49:19] <roycroft> a steampunk lamp has a mantle, not a meter
[20:49:50] <RyanS> well... typical plumbing fitting steampunk lamp have steam guages, but thats dumb
[20:50:02] <RyanS> mantle?
[20:50:18] <roycroft> as in coleman lantern
[20:50:20] <furrywolf> nernst glower! you can make them out of kitchen knives.
[20:50:26] <roycroft> to use a modern equivalent
[20:51:10] <roycroft> a radioactive cone mesh
[20:51:12] <furrywolf> you can get large mantles from aladdin oil lamps, if you ever need one.
[20:51:22] * roycroft collects aladdin lamps
[20:51:29] * roycroft has heaps of mantles, mostly nos
[20:51:32] <furrywolf> aladdin lamps are pretty impressive, and will light up a room like a 40W bulb or so...
[20:51:47] <furrywolf> ohh! I got one that was molested. want to send me a flame spreader? :P
[20:51:47] <roycroft> yes, i actually use mine
[20:52:01] <RyanS> furrywolf i thought of scratch built, but it'd lack character perhaps
[20:52:14] <furrywolf> I had two, then I loaned the neighbor one that will probably never come back, then I just got another free at a yard sale a couple weeks ago... that's the molested one.
[20:52:40] <furrywolf> it has no flame spreader, mantle, or some other bits (I didn't poke at it closely), and they were just burning it as a regular oil lamp.
[20:52:40] <roycroft> i picked one up at a garage sale recently
[20:52:58] <roycroft> it was a white lincoln drape lamp, and i got it for $20
[20:53:10] <roycroft> it looked promising, so i rushed home and put it under a black light
[20:53:17] <greg2> they get torn down because of the people who are not interested in exploring
[20:53:18] <roycroft> indeed, it glowed
[20:53:34] <RyanS> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261930496687 you cant replice this
[20:53:41] <roycroft> which told me it contained uranium oxide, and dated it to the early '40s or before
[20:53:45] <furrywolf> RyanS:
http://www.nernst.de/lamp/nernstlamp.htm genuinely steampunk lamps. :)
[20:53:46] <greg2> i got 2.7 installed on 10.04, but now anm trying to remember what I did on this box to get video to work
[20:53:59] <roycroft> worth about $300 in its condition, so i scored well on that
[20:54:18] <malcom2073> RyanS: junk fair near here has ALL sorts of old gauges like that from the 20-30's
[20:54:44] <malcom2073> Next year I'ma buy a bunch, didn't this past year unfortunatly
[20:55:26] <furrywolf> RyanS: you could machine a piece that looked like that, and stick a $3 modern meter behind it
[20:56:08] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Sale-Black-AC-0-300V-Round-Analog-Dial-Panel-Meter-Voltmeter-Gauge-/221602298525 like one of those with the ears lopped off
[20:56:59] <RyanS> i suppose, but i dont have cnc
[20:57:01] <furrywolf> sure, it won't be quite as shiny, but it'll be a whole lot cheaper...
[20:57:09] <furrywolf> cast alu? :)
[20:59:14] <RyanS> ooooo, 3d print pattern, sand cast brass
[20:59:23] <furrywolf> yes, you could do that.
[20:59:40] <furrywolf> oooooor.... brass paint the 3d printed object. :P
[21:00:02] <RyanS> thats poxy
[21:00:07] <furrywolf> I mean, the entire point of steampunk seems to be being as utterly impractical as possible...
[21:00:38] <tiwake> not entirely
[21:01:08] <RyanS> yes but i detest hot glued plastic shit
[21:01:21] <furrywolf> ssi bought a $150 airplane gauge and found it was 3d printed, poorly at that. so 3d printing is entirely sufficient for a steampunk decorative gauge.
[21:02:15] <furrywolf> heh, this is actually a good use for 3d printing. there's not many of those.
[21:03:24] <tiwake> http://www.thinkcomputers.org/articles/casemodfriday/steampunkd-large.jpg
[21:03:48] <tiwake> steampunk look, but not useless
[21:04:14] <furrywolf> ah yes, the utterly useless "let's stick random gears to things" steampunking process...
[21:04:35] <furrywolf> and tubes!
[21:04:46] <furrywolf> (of the valve variety)
[21:04:56] <tiwake> enh, yeah, you could take those away and it would still have the steampunk look :P
[21:04:58] <furrywolf> hopefully they at least hooked the heaters up to the 5v bus. :P
[21:05:06] <RyanS> I think steampunk needs metal, *functional* gears, working mechanisms, not hot glue
[21:06:49] <tiwake> I bet you could take a car door with mechanical roll up windows, make the side of the door out of something like acrylic, and all the gears out of brass
[21:07:12] <tiwake> for a functional steampunk look
[21:07:35] <RyanS> look..... pvc ewww
http://steampunk.wonderhowto.com/inspiration/28-most-popular-steampunk-materials-your-local-hardware-store-0141461/
[21:09:33] <furrywolf> I was at a yard sale that had some old tools for sale. one of them was a nice really old ridge reamer (for engine rebuilds). some girl was asking about it, and the seller was telling her about the parts with it, etc... she said "oh, I don't care about any of that, I just want it for my steampunk art". he then told her to get the fuck out of his sale and he was going to sell it to someone who'd actually use it. I laughed pretty hard. :)
[21:09:35] <tiwake> honestly, screw steampunk. modern minimalist is best look anyway
[21:10:19] <RyanS> furrywolf i like your scratchbuild gauge idea, but how to replace the modern needle
[21:10:44] <furrywolf> don't?
[21:10:58] <RyanS> minimalist is ok, but depends
[21:11:02] <furrywolf> it's balanced, so just adding to it would be hard, and you'd have to dismantle it...
[21:12:01] <RyanS> a red thin needle would look crap
[21:12:22] <PetefromTn_> thats pretty cool stuff kinda reminds me of one of my favorite movies ever 20000 leagues under the sea
[21:12:46] <furrywolf> RyanS: why all the fake guns? if you're going to go to that much work, at least put an air reservoir and a solenoid valve on it, and stuff a potato down the end...
[21:13:15] <tiwake> furrywolf: or a marble
[21:14:03] <tiwake> why is pulseaudio bad?
[21:14:38] <RyanS> haha "fuck off steampunk hipster girl, this is mans tool"
[21:15:22] <furrywolf> tiwake: do you want a list, an essay, a series of anecdotes, or a mathematical proof?
[21:15:26] <RyanS> who cares as long as you sell
[21:15:32] <furrywolf> because it's bad in every possible way. :P
[21:16:09] <greg2> pet rock made somebody rich
[21:16:17] <PetefromTn_> i need to build some sort of auto feed for my 12 in bandsaw
[21:16:39] <greg2> vertical?
[21:16:44] <furrywolf> http://hexonal.deviantart.com/art/Steampunk-wrist-gun-1-87998310 see, if I were to build something like that, it would WORK.
[21:16:49] <PetefromTn_> horiz
[21:17:13] <furrywolf> there's plenty of room there to make it a fully functional co2-powered BB gun.
[21:17:17] <tiwake> furrywolf: donno... its nice to be able to split the audio several different directions, but I havent had to do it where latency was an issue
[21:17:33] <greg2> for automated cutting
[21:17:34] <furrywolf> and then it'd have a good excuse for a bunch more tubes and a gauge. :P
[21:17:39] <PetefromTn_> sure
[21:18:54] <furrywolf> even if you didn't want to deal with loading and it only fired 4 shots, at least it'd do something...
[21:19:13] <RyanS> hahaha
http://tinyurl.com/nz4jn25
[21:19:45] <RyanS> i even tinyurl'd it
[21:20:30] <furrywolf> lol
[21:20:51] <PetefromTn_> do you make those?
[21:32:57] * Jymmm dont do short urls (except google maps)
[21:56:53] <furrywolf> quote of the day: "it's MUCH more likely that you're simply doing it wrong"
[22:15:47] <furrywolf> grrrr, why do some stores make you sign up just to purchase one item?
[22:34:00] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/bpo/5100485794.html can anyone make out the date codes on those? from the best squinting I can do, they look like they're 9.5 years old?
[22:36:30] <furrywolf> if he's selling 10 year old batteries and claiming they're new, I'm going to offer him $8/each. :P
[22:54:01] <Valen> furrywolf: so they ca spam you, duh
[22:54:56] <Valen> also which image has date code?
[22:58:41] <furrywolf> second image shows date code on top of negative battery post (looks to me like L 5) and the melted-in line/date/etc code (very hard to read, mayve ends in B6?), third image shows sticker (clearly E6, but stickers aren't as useful as the stamped codes) and the peel-out bubbles for the warranty, which look like they start with a "0" not a "1".
[23:00:39] <cradek> I think I agree the bubbles are 04 05 06 07 08 09
[23:01:18] <furrywolf> really would be nice if craigslist didn't overcompress their images so badly...
[23:02:04] <Valen> I read it as P08 on the battery terminal
[23:02:15] <furrywolf> positive or negative?
[23:02:15] <Valen> above the terminal
[23:02:22] <Valen> oh duh
[23:02:25] <furrywolf> LOL
[23:02:26] <Valen> that was POS
[23:02:29] <furrywolf> that says POS. :P
[23:02:38] <furrywolf> stamped into the lead on the terminal. :)
[23:03:15] <Valen> nfi ;->
[23:03:58] <furrywolf> neg looks like L5 to me, which is the one that matters...
[23:04:54] <furrywolf> L5 would be 12/2015 or 12/2005. since they weren't made in 12/2015...
[23:06:21] <furrywolf> between the terminal date code, the sticker (E6 would be filled in may 2006), and the bubbles looking like they have 0s, I rather suspect they're ten years old. and yet he's selling them as new.
[23:08:25] <furrywolf> grids poured in 12/2005 and battery finished 5/2006 is a perfectly reasonable combination.
[23:09:02] <furrywolf> they make them in advance and don't fill them until they're being shipped out
[23:10:08] <furrywolf> s/poured/stamped
[23:11:40] <furrywolf> I rather could use some working batteries, but if they're ten years old, even if they hold a charge, I'm not paying over scrap value.
[23:18:32] <furrywolf> heh, close to nil googling for them... I suspect they might have been discontinued... most forum threads from 2005ish. lol
[23:19:15] <furrywolf> stupid fucking crooks on craigslist.
[23:20:02] <pcw_home> maybe more a mix of ignorance and high hopes
[23:20:56] <furrywolf> it's kinda hard to confuse "new" and "ten years old".
[23:21:12] <pcw_home> new as in not used...
[23:22:48] <furrywolf> except they have wires dangling off them... :P
[23:23:22] <pcw_home> well one hopes they kept them charged
[23:24:27] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[23:24:38] <PetefromTn_> amazes me some of the shit I see on Craigslist
[23:24:57] <PetefromTn_> especially what some jackholes think they can get for a beat up piece of shit rusted out jeep LOL
[23:24:59] <furrywolf> I sent him an email saying that the date codes are hard to read, but they look like they're ten years old, and is he sure they're new?...
