#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-06-29

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[00:05:45] <alex4nder> XXCoder: that's hilarious
[00:06:06] <alex4nder> os1r1s: linuxcnc will use standard POSIX APIs for "realtime" support
[00:06:13] <alex4nder> all in user-space
[00:06:20] <XXCoder> alex indeed
[00:06:43] <os1r1s> alex4nder: Ok. So the functionality is the same in the end. I would not expect some sort of degradation
[00:07:38] <Jymmm> battlebits
[00:08:20] <Jymmm> battlebots
[00:09:01] <alex4nder> os1r1s: it's not the same, it's pretty damn good
[00:12:52] <os1r1s> alex4nder: Have you used a mesa 7i80 by chance?
[00:39:38] <zeeshan> man if i could somehow interface this c# library w/ linuxcnc
[00:39:49] <zeeshan> life would be easier
[01:10:17] <zeeshan> can someone please tell me the algorithm behind the lowpass filter component
[01:10:21] <zeeshan> theres gotta be a name to it
[01:10:32] <zeeshan> and why 0.01 works so well :p
[01:33:31] <archivist> there are many filter topologies
[01:33:57] <MrSunshine> gah i hate people who want to optimize stuff ... just makes my life harder .. so i got this job where he wanted sides for a speaker box .. they are 800mm high .. i want a piece that is 820mm+ so that i can cut around it .but the cheapstake wants to cut them 800 so that he doesnt lose any material :P
[01:34:43] <MrSunshine> in this case it can be ok .. as i just have to cut the sides to angle and cut out the holes etc but .. =)
[01:35:00] <archivist> use a thick glue to fill the gaps due to tolerances :)
[01:35:53] <zeeshan> archivist: but i am asking about a specific one :(
[01:36:12] <archivist> impossible question error
[01:36:41] <zeeshan> i am noticing some trends about the lpf in linuxcnc
[01:36:58] <zeeshan> i am using the code for my filtered needs
[01:37:00] <archivist> specially as it is hidden inside a crap library
[01:37:05] <zeeshan> and i noticed when you make gain too low..
[01:37:19] <zeeshan> the response time of the filtered signal to get to the actual value is actually slow
[01:37:38] <zeeshan> if the gain is too high, then the filetered signal is still noisy
[01:39:18] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/fXnQ2NQ.png
[01:39:21] <zeeshan> gain set to 0.05
[01:39:46] <archivist> one goes to higher order filters to get away from basic response
[01:41:22] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/7R9pWwO.png
[01:41:25] <zeeshan> gain 0.01
[01:41:44] <zeeshan> 2 seconds to get to actual vaslue with gain of 0.05
[01:41:58] <zeeshan> and 10-15 s with g=0.01
[01:42:56] <archivist> I think gain is the wrong word, it is averaging for a longer period
[01:45:42] <zeeshan> i bet there is a filter
[01:45:52] <zeeshan> that can specifically filter noise below 0.1 hz
[01:45:55] <zeeshan> cause that's what FFT shows me.
[01:46:01] <zeeshan> the noise is below a certain frequency
[01:46:41] <archivist> 1/f noise
[01:46:53] <zeeshan> ??
[01:47:17] <archivist> it rises as frequency drops
[01:47:39] <zeeshan> does that have a name
[01:47:47] <archivist> you may get away with a bandpass filter
[01:48:51] <archivist> also known as flicker noise, a problem of resistors and is from a thermal source
[01:49:13] <archivist> show the fft
[01:49:31] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/3STiPy4.png
[01:50:21] <zeeshan> it approaches max amplitude below 0.2 hz
[01:50:22] <archivist> high pass to get rid of that
[01:50:23] <zeeshan> it looks like
[01:52:10] <archivist> if you want response inside 1 sec you are in the noisy region
[01:52:42] <zeeshan> what do you mean inside 1 sec
[01:54:04] <archivist> you may need to implement a high order filter eg https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Elliptic_filter
[01:57:38] <archivist> but... does the pressure actually fluctuate like that, fix the problem at source
[01:58:06] <zeeshan> no
[01:58:08] <zeeshan> its electrical noise
[01:58:21] <zeeshan> or like youre saying
[01:58:27] <zeeshan> resistors heating up shrug lol
[01:58:55] <Jymmm> toss a cap across the leads?
[01:59:16] <zeeshan> lioke 100pF?
[01:59:31] <Jymmm> sure
[01:59:48] <archivist> 100uf
[02:00:18] <archivist> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_noise
[02:00:57] <archivist> and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burst_noise
[02:01:33] <archivist> when I was a lad it was all lumped together
[02:01:40] <archivist> with 1/f
[02:02:21] <archivist> one of those situations where I discard wp
[02:02:37] <zeeshan> wp?
[02:03:00] <archivist> wikipedia
[02:03:46] <archivist> too many cooks syndrome making a dogs dinner of theory
[02:08:42] <archivist> you want to block the low frequencies, that is done in a high pass filter not a low pass
[02:09:12] * zeeshan is lookling for a simple algorithm for high pass filter
[02:09:27] <Deejay> moin
[02:12:59] <archivist> zeeshan, why do you want a faster response anyway
[02:13:09] <zeeshan> just wanna get rid of the noise :P
[02:15:20] <archivist> slow response is a good way
[02:15:35] <Jymmm> snap on a ferret or weasel
[02:16:28] <Jymmm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pass_filter
[02:18:42] <Jymmm> zeeshan: highpass is ust an RC circuit
[02:18:46] <Jymmm> just*
[02:18:56] <zeeshan> doing it in software :)
[02:19:04] <Jymmm> pfff, wuss
[02:19:20] <archivist> or you just average for longer
[02:19:33] <zeeshan> yea im just averaging a bit longer
[02:19:37] <zeeshan> and it seems to be a lot happier now
[02:19:46] <zeeshan> something i can live with :)
[02:19:51] <Jymmm> your just masking it is all
[02:22:05] <Jymmm> zeeshan: did you twist the leads from your sensor together?
[02:22:48] <Jymmm> use a snap on ferrite
[02:22:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/1bFmi9O.png
[02:22:53] <zeeshan> much better
[02:23:12] <zeeshan> no more retarded .6psi spikes
[02:23:19] <zeeshan> its all around 0.1
[07:39:00] <Jymmm> Could PEX be used for airline/inert gas system? Water pressure rating 79PSI@200F, 100PSI@180F, 160PSI@73F
[07:40:46] <_methods> i don't know if it suffers from teh same problems as pvc for air use
[07:40:55] <Jymmm> which is?
[07:41:00] <_methods> exploding
[07:41:20] <_methods> the movement of air through the pvc pipes causes them to break down or something
[07:42:29] <Jymmm> I do know if you use white PVC, it will shatter if you smack it with a hammer. But if you use grey (non-conductive conduit), smack if with a hammer a hundred times and it just squishes.
[07:43:20] <Jymmm> both being SCH40
[07:43:43] <_methods> well you can google pvc for air lines and hear all the horror stories
[07:43:52] <_methods> hell they did it at my last shop
[07:43:57] <_methods> worked fine for about 5 years
[07:44:06] <_methods> then pipes started exploding all over the place
[07:44:23] <_methods> i got many good chucklez out of that
[07:44:24] <Jymmm> heavy usage?
[07:44:33] <_methods> yeah large shop
[07:44:38] <_methods> with about 30+ cnc machines
[07:44:42] <Jymmm> what PSI?
[07:44:55] <_methods> 125 or so i guess
[07:45:11] <Jymmm> ouch, PVC is only rated to 120PSI anyway =)
[07:45:16] <_methods> over time the air moving through the pvc breaks the pipe down
[07:45:38] <_methods> all i can say is do some research
[07:45:45] <_methods> if it's a small run the screw it
[07:45:47] <_methods> go for it
[07:45:56] <Jymmm> I saw the new stuff they have now, it's aluinum tubing with inner and outter HDPE coatings.
[07:46:13] <_methods> yeah how much is that
[07:46:18] <Jymmm> not coatings, but tubing inside tubing
[07:46:58] <Jymmm> 1/2"@100ft $193
[07:47:07] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Gmxi9N13Y
[07:47:09] <_methods> ouch
[07:47:31] <Tom_itx> use SS pipe for all your airline needs :)
[07:48:12] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Would you like to use paypal to fund this project, or just send cash?
[07:48:16] <Tom_itx> compressed air will likely contain a bit of oil mist and that is probably what breaks down the plastic
[07:48:31] <Tom_itx> i used black pipe on mine
[07:48:57] <Tom_itx> 175 psi
[07:49:28] <Jymmm> It's actually nitrogen I want to plumb into the house for low pressure (<50PSI) useage
[07:49:47] * jthornton is happily backing up from 0.90
[07:49:51] <Tom_itx> grow house?
[07:50:07] <Tom_itx> jthornton, got it goin ehh?
[07:50:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Alternative to the $5 cans of air
[07:50:21] <jthornton> yea finally fingered it out
[07:50:42] <MrFluffy> I used pex about 5 years ago... should I be worried?
[07:50:54] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: for?
[07:51:25] <jthornton> http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-plastic-tubing/=xu0stg
[07:51:46] <_methods> that duratec stuff is nice
[07:52:04] * jthornton goes for a ride in the woods
[07:52:15] <Tom_itx> take your pump
[07:52:18] <Jymmm> _methods: this was kinda nice too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM1FtJXQfvQ
[07:52:18] <Tom_itx> :)
[07:52:38] <Jymmm> _methods: But the whole 10ft long pipes wasn't
[07:53:41] <_methods> MrFluffy: it may work fine i honestly don't know
[07:54:08] <_methods> but i do know for a fact the pvc will explode and i've seen it first hand
[07:54:23] <_methods> was one of the most wonderful "i told you so" experiences of my life
[07:54:42] <Jymmm> lol
[07:54:58] <Jymmm> I wonder if that duratex is direct burrial
[07:57:12] <_methods> we always just use stainless tubing or black iron here
[07:57:34] <Jymmm> Eh, I guess not a big big deal. Just lay 2" conduit and run it and LV cabling at the same time.
[07:58:14] <_methods> where i'm at now they used 3" black iron for the main distribution lines
[07:58:21] <_methods> it's basically a giant reservoir
[07:58:26] <Jymmm> lol
[08:01:27] <Jymmm> 2"PVC conduit is $6.27 a 10ft stick, not too bad.
[08:03:13] <Jymmm> But jump to 3", and it's still cheaper to run two 2" lines
[08:04:27] <Jymmm> And if I'm the bastard than has to dig the trench, there might be 4x 2" lines, just because!
[08:09:24] <MrFluffy> Jymmm, airline system for my shop... not pvc, pex the reinforced stuff
[08:09:39] <MrFluffy> pex splits with excess pressure
[08:09:50] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: The O2 barrier stuff?
[08:10:24] <MrFluffy> not sure, it was just left over from a underfloor heating install
[08:10:51] <MrFluffy> it seems you end up with the spare odd 200m or so on average per house kit...
[08:11:00] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: Yeah, ok, that is O2 barrier. But not sure if it's Pex-A or Pex-B
[08:13:09] <MrFluffy> it was free, even if it splits tomorrow I've had my moneys worth, but the fittings look like the fancy air system ones in the youtube linked
[08:13:17] <MrFluffy> I've not had a issue with leaks etc
[08:13:54] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: Ah here we go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUGi76kEDV4
[08:14:17] <Jymmm> PEX-AL-PEX from home depot even
[08:14:51] <_methods> yeah that is the "correct" pex for air
[08:14:55] <Jymmm> 125PSI@180F
[08:15:09] <_methods> but i think even normal pex will be fine for a compressed air system
[08:15:21] <_methods> think being keyword
[08:15:34] <Jymmm> _methods: Well, no aluminum tubing in it
[08:15:49] <_methods> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43219
[08:16:10] <_methods> the post about the pex distributors using it for their air lines
[08:16:19] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-3-4-in-x-100-ft-Oxygen-Barrier-Radiant-Heating-PEX-Pipe-U870O100/202033002
[08:16:24] <carper> not been doing much due to ill health so not been keeping up to date with the development of linuxcnc. last build i run was 2.6 dev on ubuntu 10.4 just installed wheezy with 2.8 just to have a play with before i install it onto my lathe running a mesa 5i20 and got a conversion to do on a easimill using a 5i22 with 1.5 gate. (cards and daughter cards were ordered before i was taken ill)
[08:17:33] <Jymmm> _methods: from that post " Regular pex, isn't rated for air. Pex-al-pex is. "
[08:17:38] <_methods> yeah
[08:17:51] <_methods> that's why i said pex-al-pex is the "correct" choice
[08:18:03] <_methods> but that post was saying they used regular pex
[08:18:08] <_methods> and had no problems
[08:18:25] <Jymmm> _methods: But $75 for 100ft of 3/4" really isn't that bad at all. Could use it to plumb the garage
[08:18:34] <_methods> yeah
[08:18:56] <_methods> my garage is so small i'll probably just use regular air line
[08:19:39] <_methods> i might just do black iron though
[08:19:49] <_methods> look more bad ass than hose lol
[08:20:06] <Jymmm> this sounds much simpler and less fittings
[08:21:56] <Jymmm> LOL 300ft = $214, 500ft = $225
[08:22:06] <_methods> wow
[08:22:15] <_methods> so i'm guessing you're getting 300ft
[08:22:18] <_methods> hahahah
[08:24:13] <carper> ive used 2" plastic water pipe water pipe with 3/4" Tee offs been running it like that for 3yrs and its great plus the 2" acts as part of the tank
[08:24:36] <Jymmm> Shit, sell the excess on CL for that matter, get a whole system for free
[08:28:18] <Jymmm> _methods: you think 1/2" would be good enough?
[08:28:24] <_methods> for?
[08:28:30] <_methods> low pressure inert
[08:28:32] <Jymmm> air/nitrogen
[08:28:35] <_methods> i would think so
[08:28:41] <_methods> what kind of cfm?
[08:29:09] <Jymmm> <50
[08:29:33] <_methods> is that psi?
[08:29:39] <_methods> that's a lot of cfm
[08:29:39] <Jymmm> CFM
[08:29:59] <Jymmm> Yep, fire supression
[08:30:05] <_methods> i think you need 1" lines
[08:30:12] <_methods> for a 25 foot run
[08:30:23] <_methods> actually up to 300 feet
[08:30:27] <_methods> 1" should work
[08:31:02] <Jymmm> Hell the regulator outlet aint that big
[08:31:42] <_methods> i don't know what to tell you
[08:31:48] <_methods> i'd do the calculations for sure
[08:31:58] <_methods> especially on something as critical as fire suppression
[08:31:59] <Jymmm> 1/2"@300ft = $110
[08:32:30] <_methods> 50cfm is pretty massive
[08:32:50] <Jymmm> that would be MAX CFM
[08:34:09] <Jymmm> the chamber is only 12CF, just need to flood it for 30 seconds minimum
[08:34:51] <_methods> well i guess you could just test it out using smaller pipe
[08:35:20] <Jymmm> I *think* the sprinkler heads are 1/2"
[08:37:03] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPOzXteXD_s
[08:37:56] <_methods> watching
[08:38:43] <_methods> i thought you were pushing gas?
[08:39:14] <Jymmm> I am, but they mention flow factor of a sprinkler.
[08:39:54] <Jymmm> I talked to a fire system installation company and they said the heads CAN be used for gas (like halon, etc)
[08:40:32] <_methods> well i'm no guru on fluid/gas dynamics
[08:41:08] <_methods> you really need to figure out exactly what cfm you need to push out
[08:41:10] <Jymmm> Well 35gpm = 133lpm
[08:41:13] <_methods> and that will determine your pipe size
[08:41:27] <tjtr33> jthornton, if you want good flexible stuff go Festo http://www.festo.com/cms/en-us_us/2786.htm. I use inside cable chains. it Just works.
[08:41:32] <Jymmm> which is what my flow regulator is rated in (LPM)
[08:42:11] <Jymmm> _methods: I di realize liquid != gas, but just a rought guestimate is all
[08:42:40] <_methods> yeah i'm not saying that you don't
[08:42:50] <Jymmm> _methods: and 133 LPM is a fuckton =)
[08:43:04] <_methods> yeah
[08:43:34] <Jymmm> _methods: Hell, I might as just build a 4ft cement wall and a drop hammer on the the neck of the tank
[08:44:00] <Jymmm> fire burns string, drops hammer, no more fire ;)
[08:44:44] <_methods> hahahahah
[08:45:03] <_methods> go all wiley coyote on that
[08:45:04] <Jymmm> and by 4ft, I meant THICK, not long
[08:45:54] <Jymmm> Just to hold that torpedo stationary as it's ejecting out at 2000PSI
[08:47:09] <Jymmm> _methods: "We don't need to stinkin calculations!"
[08:48:24] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8OvFiEPk3c
[08:48:27] <_methods> that's what those guys said too
[08:49:26] <_methods> heheh
[08:49:30] <_methods> FU math
[08:54:48] <Jymmm> _methods: I liked that the sinkhole fit the truck perfectly =)
[08:54:54] <_methods> hehe
[08:55:10] <_methods> i should have found a better video
[08:55:16] <_methods> i just grabbed taht real quick lol
[08:56:14] <dirty_d> great success https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omvz1Qe8gFo
[09:00:36] <_methods> http://makezine.com/projects/make-39/wood-fired-barrel-oven/
[09:00:39] <_methods> wow read those comments
[09:01:14] <_methods> dirty_d: what'd you use for a bit?
[09:02:09] <dirty_d> one of those flat carbide tipped ones that looks like the profile of a spitzer bullet
[09:02:11] <Jymmm> mutagenic
[09:02:15] <_methods> hahah
[09:02:20] <_methods> teratogenic too
[09:02:40] <dirty_d> people are so god damn paranoid
[09:02:43] <dirty_d> wood smoke, raelly?
[09:02:57] <_methods> i really just need to move to russia
[09:02:58] <Jymmm> not paranoid, just dumbasses
[09:03:30] <_methods> where i can burn tires and kill animals like the 80's
[09:03:46] <_methods> hunt gay people
[09:04:04] <CaptHindsight> the 80's
[09:04:07] <Jymmm> _methods: Next door at the endangered spieces Bar and grill
[09:04:07] <_methods> hahah
[09:04:28] <_methods> i mean wtf you can't even bbq anymore?
[09:04:32] <Jymmm> "Taste just like Bald Eagle"
[09:05:02] <Jymmm> There actualy is a ban on balcony propane bbw grills
[09:05:07] <Jymmm> bbq
[09:05:26] <Jymmm> it's how I get propane tanks REALLY cheap =)
[09:05:31] <_methods> well i'm not a big fan of open flames in residential buildings
[09:05:40] <Jymmm> wuss
[09:05:43] <_methods> but in your own home or singular dwellings
[09:05:45] <_methods> go for it
[09:05:57] <_methods> nothing like your dumbass neighbor burning your apartment down
[09:06:28] <_methods> omg make magazine you are so sad
[09:06:32] <_methods> look at this article
[09:06:34] <_methods> http://makezine.com/projects/skill-builder-pvc-pipe/
[09:06:42] <_methods> how to cut and drill pvc lol
[09:07:30] <CaptHindsight> I stopped reading the Make and 3D news sites, too sad
[09:07:44] <Jymmm> Honestly, that's why I haven't gone to a MAker Faire yet.
[09:08:22] <_methods> yeah if you're scared of a fuckin bbq you may not make it in the real world of manufacturing
[09:08:25] <CaptHindsight> depressing and needs a shower was my impression
[09:08:51] <Jymmm> ...with teo gallons of gasoline!
[09:08:57] <Jymmm> two*
[09:09:43] <_methods> http://www.neatorama.com/2015/06/27/Python-Realized-That-Eating-a-Whole-Porcupine-Is-Actually-a-Very-Very-Bad-Idea/
[09:09:48] <_methods> hahah
[09:12:45] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2015-06-robot-hadrian-bricks-house-days.html
[09:13:25] <CaptHindsight> can lay 1000 bricks per hour.
[09:14:19] <dirty_d> how to cut and drill PVC, step 1: cut and drill PVC
[09:14:40] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: Is the same true for wood?
[09:14:53] <dirty_d> youre god damned right it is
[09:15:10] <_methods> wow 1000 bricks/hour
[09:15:37] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if sheet metal could be processed in a similar fashion, this cutting and drilling you speak of
[09:15:48] <_methods> hehe
[09:16:43] <dirty_d> thats a little trickier
[09:17:11] <dirty_d> i hate drilling sheet metal
[09:17:37] <dirty_d> those step drills work sort of ok though
[09:18:08] <CaptHindsight> "are you still trying to hammer and gnaw your way through sheet metal, have we got a new set of tools for you!"
[09:18:41] <shaun413> hello
[09:18:47] <shaun413> anyone use meshcam?
[09:18:53] <dirty_d> hell to the no
[09:18:59] <shaun413> why?
[09:19:08] <shaun413> what do you use?
[09:19:21] <_methods> if you make clean models you don't need stupid stuff liek that
[09:19:33] <dirty_d> because it represents shapes as meshes instead of their mathematical size and shape etc
[09:19:42] <_methods> but you're probably just using someone elses trash
[09:19:44] <shaun413> what do you use?
[09:20:00] <dirty_d> its good for like 3D stuff where exact dimensions arent critical
[09:20:04] <shaun413> no im using it for my own designs, but Im new to this
[09:20:39] <CaptHindsight> shaun413: what are you using to create your models?
[09:20:52] <shaun413> solidworks
[09:20:54] <dirty_d> there isn't anything free that's really that good
[09:21:14] <dirty_d> fusion360 has HSMExpress for cam, thats good
[09:21:19] <dirty_d> but the cad side sucks
[09:21:39] <shaun413> i dont want them calling me to verify info
[09:21:44] <shaun413> creepy
[09:21:56] <dirty_d> call you?
[09:22:08] <shaun413> yeah they say they will call you to audit info
[09:22:14] <dirty_d> who?
[09:22:23] <shaun413> hsmexpress
[09:22:30] <dirty_d> oh
[09:22:35] <dirty_d> fake number?
[09:22:50] <shaun413> they will take away your licence
[09:22:50] <CaptHindsight> do you ask them for verification when they call?
[09:22:57] <shaun413> no lol?
[09:23:04] <dirty_d> technically you could use solidworks and HSMWorks
[09:23:12] <_methods> i've never needed meshworks for any model i made in solidworks
[09:23:16] <dirty_d> for free
[09:23:27] <shaun413> how?
[09:23:36] <dirty_d> http://i.imgur.com/XiziHDl.png
[09:23:50] <shaun413> well my solidworks is real
[09:23:59] <dirty_d> oh nice
[09:26:04] <shaun413> ill just try hsmworks
[09:26:10] <shaun413> i dont need to answer the phone lol
[09:26:15] <dirty_d> nope
[09:26:33] <shaun413> problem is, I dont have a darn sd card...
[09:26:38] <shaun413> i mean usb drive
[09:26:43] <dirty_d> for what?
[09:26:48] <shaun413> i guess ill have to transfer gcode on my phone lol
[09:27:00] <shaun413> to get to code over to the cnc pc
[09:27:16] <dirty_d> ahh, yea im using a flash drive too
[09:27:23] <shaun413> yeah forgot to bring one lol
[09:27:43] <dirty_d> if it were up to me id have my cnc machine in my living room
[09:27:49] <shaun413> ?
[09:27:57] <_methods> the wife would love that
[09:27:58] <_methods> lol
[09:28:02] <dirty_d> yea, lol
[09:28:22] <_methods> xmas early baby, i'm moving the mill into the living room
[09:28:24] <shaun413> ill brb
[09:28:50] <MrFluffy> I have mine on the local network with ethernet cable out to the shop
[09:28:57] <MrFluffy> and a webcam, for remote operation :)
[09:29:16] <dirty_d> actually id rather just have a lair
[09:29:24] <MrFluffy> no swarf in shoes or cat, can pretend to be busy at work in office while playing with mill remote
[09:29:42] <shaun413> nevermind
[09:29:45] <shaun413> boss aint in yet
[09:29:50] <_Sync_> uhh wtf, apparently there are people who put CEE plugs and motor circuit breakers on AC sync servos
[09:30:14] <dirty_d> shaun413, oh this is work stuff so you can just buy HSMWorks legit?
[09:30:26] <shaun413> its free, well its kinda
[09:30:31] <shaun413> not the work copy of SW
[09:30:38] <dirty_d> it is?
[09:30:40] <shaun413> its mine
[09:30:45] <shaun413> well
[09:31:09] <shaun413> its mine from a competition team im part of
[09:31:16] <dirty_d> ahh
[09:31:32] <dirty_d> yea HSMWorks is the best ive used
[09:31:37] <shaun413> so its not really registered to me, so idk if i put down MY info
[09:31:42] <shaun413> if they will let me keep it..
[09:32:22] <shaun413> ill try it dirty_d
[09:35:25] <dirty_d> they probably wont
[09:37:40] <shaun413> ok
[09:37:46] <shaun413> probably wont what?
[09:41:36] <dirty_d> let you keep it
[09:41:37] <dirty_d> forever
[09:41:42] <shaun413> oh
[09:46:30] <ssi> morn
[09:47:49] <shaun413> ah seems they dont care about the SW licence dirty_d
[09:47:54] <shaun413> its just to verify YOUR info
[09:51:09] <CaptHindsight> how do you know that it's not Russian spies calling you?
[09:52:08] <shaun413> i wont answer
[09:52:53] <MrFluffy> its probably in the t&c's if you dont answer they kill the license
[09:53:07] <MrFluffy> and if they don't like the sound of your voice, they kill the license too :-)
[09:53:28] <shaun413> it is,
[09:53:30] <MrFluffy> I'm convinced this is how hexagon metrology designs their customer support model
[09:53:35] <shaun413> ill answer their email
[09:53:49] <CaptHindsight> I give out 2 phone numbers, one for Russian spies and one for others
[09:54:08] <shaun413> ah
[09:54:17] <MrFluffy> call desk crib sheet "#1, does operator like the sound of customer yes/no, if no, find way to fob off" :)
[09:54:18] <shaun413> well i dont think autodesk is a russian spy
[09:54:33] <shaun413> dude i used to work for a callcenter for product research
[09:54:36] <shaun413> pretty much true
[09:55:08] <shaun413> its like "IF PERSON doesnt fit this criteria terminate them"
[09:55:15] <CaptHindsight> how do you know? Look at all the McCarthy trials in the 1950's
[09:55:20] <shaun413> and you had to make up a lie and say, OK we will contact you soon
[09:58:21] <CaptHindsight> what does "Autodesk" want to know about you when they call?
[09:58:38] <shaun413> my name and city
[09:58:50] <shaun413> just to verfiy its the same i put in online
[09:58:50] <CaptHindsight> did you have to meet some criteria when you received the product?
[09:58:53] <shaun413> no
[09:59:37] <CaptHindsight> is this also how they get the phone number?
[09:59:59] <shaun413> probably
[10:00:05] <CaptHindsight> clever
[10:00:08] <shaun413> and emails
[10:00:46] <CaptHindsight> they trade you a software application for some of your personal information
[10:01:22] <shaun413> yup
[10:03:05] <shaun413> so whats a good thing to cut for a test
[10:03:19] <shaun413> ive already done letters, came out well
[10:45:04] <dirty_d> hmm, i need to mill a 2.5" square into a 2.5" circle, i dont see an easy way to clamp it
[10:45:05] <dirty_d> glue?
[10:45:26] <shaun413> umm
[10:45:29] <shaun413> tape?
[10:45:32] <archivist> that wont fit
[10:45:40] <shaun413> and yeah you cant do that..
[10:45:52] <dirty_d> why?
[10:46:39] <shaun413> umm
[10:46:45] <shaun413> draw it out in cad
[10:46:49] <dirty_d> i mean i know i have no allowance on the center of the sides
[10:46:50] <shaun413> figure that out
[10:47:08] <archivist> are you forgetting a radius or diameter or a side length
[10:47:42] <dirty_d> i dont think so
[10:48:17] <dirty_d> i just need to cut the corners off so its a circle basically
[10:48:33] <archivist> how do you expect to fit 2.5" square in to a 2.5" diameter circle
[10:48:39] <shaun413> heh
[10:48:43] <dirty_d> lol
[10:48:50] <shaun413> OK
[10:48:56] <shaun413> he doesnt want to mill it into it
[10:48:58] <dirty_d> no i meant turn the square into a circle, not the other way around
[10:49:03] <shaun413> he wants to MAKE It itno a circle
[10:49:05] <archivist> you want the opposite
[10:49:05] <shaun413> lol
[10:49:18] <shaun413> so confused lol
[10:49:23] <dirty_d> there are no holes, so i can bolt from the center
[10:49:28] <dirty_d> sorry, lol
[10:49:49] <dirty_d> maybe superglue then heat it after?
[10:49:59] <archivist> this is what vices and chucks were made for
[10:50:12] <dirty_d> there is nothing to clamp though
[10:50:44] <dirty_d> everythign will be milled away except for the circle i want left over
[10:51:13] <dirty_d> cant clamp from the top because it would get in the way
[10:51:32] <dirty_d> unless i milled one half, and moved a clamp to the opposite side
[10:51:53] <archivist> I can do that on a lathe with a revolving centre , some pressure required
[10:52:05] <dirty_d> yea
[10:52:31] <dirty_d> i only have a mill though
[10:53:24] <_methods> just mill 2 sides flat then stop against them and clap then mill off other 2 sides
[10:53:29] <archivist> 4 jaw chuck upwards
[10:53:32] <_methods> s/clap/clamp
[10:53:55] <archivist> some setting up required for 2nd op
[10:54:04] <_methods> 2 dowel pins
[10:54:21] <_methods> or a couple strap clamps
[10:54:21] <archivist> he wants no holes
[10:54:28] <_methods> stop against dowel pins
[10:54:41] <dirty_d> i actually dont care as long as the holes dont go through the top
[10:55:03] <_methods> what material?
[10:55:07] <dirty_d> so i could bolt from the bottom, but i would image superglue would be strong enough and be the fastest way
[10:55:11] <dirty_d> 6061
[10:55:14] <_methods> mill 95% of the way through then break away
[10:55:24] <archivist> glue is liable to fail
[10:57:01] <dirty_d> over the entire surface of a 2.5" circle though?
[10:57:06] <dirty_d> with light cuts on aluminum
[10:57:53] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, PopSci had a good article on Adrian, but can it do this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ
[10:58:20] <archivist> an old hack like me has had stuff fall off!
[10:58:22] <dirty_d> this is like a one off thing
[10:59:19] <archivist> I did some stuff on sheet metal with double sided tape
[11:00:59] <dirty_d> noice http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1080396-Gluing-steel-to-a-milling-fixture
[11:01:35] <archivist> aluminium does not take glue the same as steel
[11:03:02] <dirty_d> thin 2 sided tape?
[11:03:19] <dirty_d> the thick stuff wouldnt work well would it?
[11:03:22] <dirty_d> too much give
[11:03:37] <archivist> thin, it gives too
[11:06:05] <dirty_d> someone suggested 5 min epoxy over superglue
[11:07:39] <archivist> I also had problems damaging/bending stuff at the removal stage
[11:08:08] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: only in Mexico
[11:09:55] <dirty_d> archivist, did you heat it?
[11:09:59] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2015-06-message-bearing-coffee-foam-printer-mechanics.html
[11:10:28] <archivist> dirty_d, no it was carpet tape
[11:10:55] <dirty_d> oh right
[11:11:16] <archivist> dirty_d, clockmakers use shellac which can be melted on/off
[11:11:58] <dirty_d> that will dry between two plates with no air?
[11:11:59] <CaptHindsight> "The machine combines patented 3D printer mechanics with Ink-Jet printing technologies," keep head 1-5mm above coffee/foam surface and print. What a patent!
[11:13:03] <archivist> erm ink jet has been used for a long while
[11:13:13] <dirty_d> hot glue might even work
[11:13:23] <t12> theres a few glues ment specifically for this
[11:13:27] <t12> that i remember seeing on oxtoolco
[11:13:28] <dirty_d> just heat the parts melt the glu and clamp it while hot
[11:13:31] <archivist> the starch 3d printer used that
[11:13:31] <t12> but cant recall the name
[11:13:45] <dirty_d> hot glu is easy to get off too if you freeze it
[11:14:17] <archivist> somewhere I have a ball bearing made with that tech
[11:16:03] <dirty_d> t12, crystalbond?
[11:16:45] <t12> yeah i think that was one of them
[11:16:54] <t12> he compared a few in some video
[11:20:28] <CaptHindsight> i have glues that are only adhesive at elevated temperatures and are reversible by reheating
[11:20:46] <dirty_d> hot glue?
[11:21:03] <CaptHindsight> hot melts are one
[11:24:02] <dirty_d> https://youtu.be/IW_eXcjkM3g?t=1253
[11:25:49] <dirty_d> does he say what this stuff is? i have no sound
[11:26:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.crystalbond.com/
[11:27:40] <dirty_d> oh i see the sticker, crystalbond 509
[11:28:14] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalic_anhydride + a glycol
[11:29:30] <shaun413> anyone use hsmexpress
[11:30:52] <dirty_d> i have
[11:32:31] <shaun413> nevermind
[12:26:57] <Dimroy> bonsoir a tous !
[12:28:52] <Dimroy> Mach3 does it also works in USB or parallel port only?
[12:29:55] <jdh> #linuxcnc
[12:31:21] <ssi> lol
[12:31:45] <shaun413> woot
[12:31:50] <shaun413> cnc calibrated woop
[12:32:01] <Dimroy> ok,
[12:32:01] <Dimroy> I installed linuxcnc 2.6, but I can not enter to gmoccapy, how it's done?
[12:32:28] <shaun413> what type of bits and speeds for acryllic?
[12:32:31] <shaun413> is usally used?
[12:32:41] <spline> Hi, new to CNC and love that Linux (been using since 95) has support. Does anyone have a good link on a basic linux cnc mill that is either pre-made or could be built?
[12:33:18] <_methods> there are tons on ebay
[12:33:27] <archivist> define mill
[12:33:28] <spline> yeah, I saw a ton from china
[12:33:33] <_methods> yeah
[12:33:38] <_methods> probably a good start
[12:33:42] <_methods> they are fairly cheap
[12:33:45] <_methods> and easy to work on
[12:33:52] <archivist> I dont thing of the gantry routers as mills
[12:33:53] <shaun413> with shitty bearings
[12:33:55] <shaun413> and controllers
[12:33:58] <alex4nder> yah
[12:33:58] <shaun413> and spindles
[12:34:04] <spline> well, I'm looking to get more into fab. like a mill where I could make small parts for sculpture, even if "2d" (what a plasma cutter might do)
[12:34:06] <_methods> let you learn the ropes for minimal skin in the game
[12:34:22] <shaun413> how much are they _methods ?
[12:34:23] <_methods> figure out what you do and don't like pretty quick
[12:34:30] <_methods> learn the software tool chain
[12:34:55] <archivist> you can make a mill from scratch if you want
[12:35:09] <shaun413> how much would that cost
[12:35:16] <spline> archivist: yeah, I've googled a # of builds and love it
[12:35:26] <spline> bit new to cnc so I am not sure if that's above my pay grade
[12:35:33] <archivist> not a lot if parts are scrounged from old machines
[12:35:39] <alex4nder> spline: you're going to learn so much no matter what machine you get
[12:35:45] <spline> man I had a great link to a $2400 machine that went for $1300 on ebay
[12:35:52] <spline> alex4nder: yeah, no doubt
[12:36:08] <alex4nder> spline: but in your mind, there should be a difference between a 'router' and a 'mill'
[12:36:09] <spline> I have a welder and plasma cutter now.. kinda was hoping to either build one on the cheap or obviously find a great deal on ebay
[12:36:16] <_methods> well skill, time, and money are your limiting factors
[12:36:25] <spline> for even a small setup (where I'd only be able to mill or produce something very small)
[12:36:26] <_methods> base your decision on those 3
[12:36:43] <spline> alex4nder: when you say router, I think dremel or a dewalt router
[12:36:48] <alex4nder> spline: yah
[12:36:54] <spline> and mill.. I think of the same action just where it's controlled
[12:36:55] <alex4nder> mounted to a gantry
[12:36:58] <spline> yeah
[12:36:58] <shaun413> how can i make a dome object say in soldiworks, and collapse it down to be folded
[12:37:00] <archivist> starting from an old industrial mill and adding cnc to it is probably best bang for the buck
[12:37:00] <shaun413> out of foam
[12:37:02] <shaun413> and cnced
[12:37:14] <spline> archivist: see a ton of bridgeport, etc on craigslist, esp when shops shut down
[12:37:27] <alex4nder> spline: if you want an actual mill, I'd get a Taig.
[12:37:35] <alex4nder> or something used
[12:37:56] <ssi> is a taig really that much more rigid than a gantry router?
[12:38:01] <alex4nder> yah
[12:38:03] <archivist> depends on sizes you intend to make
[12:38:05] <alex4nder> they're good for what they are
[12:38:26] <archivist> taig is a little on the micro size
[12:38:40] <shaun413> whats the min i can use to cut alum?
[12:38:46] <alex4nder> yah, and you're not going to be doing big-boy hogging with a Taig
[12:39:03] <spline> alex4nder: hah that was what I was digging through my history to find
[12:39:10] <ssi> you can cut aluminum with anything as long as you go slow
[12:39:14] <spline> I saw a Taig Micro CNC ($2400 retail) with a few upgrades go for $1300 on ebay
[12:39:38] <spline> and when I googled around, people had nothing but good things to say about it
[12:39:38] <alex4nder> spline: the thing with taigs is they don't cost much to fix, and they're high value
[12:39:55] <spline> this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taig-Micro-CNC-Mill-4-Axis-Long-Bed-1-HP-DC-Motor-Variable-Speed-with-Tach-/121673194938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c54499dba
[12:39:57] <spline> $1400
[12:40:08] <alex4nder> if you crash hard, wreck your table, and need a new one, you're only out $140
[12:40:20] <alex4nder> spline: are you in the US?
[12:40:23] <spline> yeah I'd start with wood or something soft, long before I tried aluminum
[12:40:26] <spline> alex4nder: yeah, new hampshire
[12:40:40] <spline> always forget irc can be international, even if folks are speaking english
[12:40:40] <alex4nder> cool
[12:40:54] <spline> I didn't know if it was best to start with a non-cnc mill?
[12:41:16] <spline> im basically looking to produce smaller parts for metal sculpture
[12:41:24] <alex4nder> how small is small?
[12:41:31] <spline> hm picture probably works best
[12:41:33] <spline> let me find
[12:41:39] <archivist> non cnc will teach you how easy it is to break tools as is cnc
[12:42:32] <spline> haha, yeah I've seen that
[12:42:35] <spline> http://www.georgesherwood.com/storage/cache/images/000/167/Small_Gyres_copy,medium_large.1361656571.jpg <- like that
[12:42:48] <spline> the 4 .. vanes? whatever you'd label them
[12:42:56] <spline> small as in less than 12x12 like that
[12:43:04] <archivist> just need a hammer for that
[12:43:08] <spline> yeah, I figured
[12:43:09] <alex4nder> yah
[12:43:15] <spline> oxy/fuel torch + hammer + anvil
[12:43:22] <spline> but what if I wanted to mill something more precision?
[12:43:33] <spline> out of say a rectangular block of steel/aluminum
[12:43:51] <archivist> steel needs a more rigid machine
[12:43:59] <alex4nder> spline: it just comes down to: cheap, fast, precise/accurate
[12:44:07] <alex4nder> pick 2
[12:44:33] <archivist> and 12" steel block is actually reasonably sized, bridgeport
[12:44:35] <spline> yeah, understood
[12:44:45] <spline> aluminum is rather soft compared to any steel
[12:45:05] <spline> and I think of other soft metals.. copper? but each, if welding, has its own challenges. could always braze though
[12:45:37] <archivist> copper is sticky and work hardens, needs sharp tooling
[12:46:45] <spline> interesting
[12:47:05] <spline> only brazed with brass and im currently plumbing 1/2 around my garage, so I had to relearn how to sweat
[12:47:08] <spline> but yet to work much w/copper
[12:47:36] <spline> so a basic tiag would be able to do the basics like wood (soft and hard?) plastics
[12:47:36] <archivist> last copper I worked was for a tower clock fly
[12:47:38] <spline> aluminum
[12:47:50] <_methods> yeah
[12:47:53] <spline> but steel you'd generally want to have a more industrial machine?
[12:47:54] <_methods> i cut steel on my X2
[12:47:55] <alex4nder> yah, it's fine.
[12:48:01] <_methods> but you gotta take it easy
[12:48:04] <alex4nder> I've cut steel on the taig, it's just slow.
[12:48:09] <spline> welded aluminum when I've had access to a nice tig (mmm)
[12:48:19] <spline> my hobart lacks the power + spool gun hookup to do it (mig)
[12:48:21] <archivist> _methods, redone the spindle bearings?
[12:48:29] <_methods> nah mine are fine still
[12:48:33] <spline> _methods: which unit do you have?
[12:48:34] <_methods> i smoked my drive gears though
[12:48:41] <_methods> i had to do the belt mod
[12:48:46] <_methods> i have the harbor freight one
[12:48:58] <archivist> I was helping someone adjust the bearings the other day
[12:48:59] <_methods> i added the little machine shop large bed though
[12:49:12] <_methods> has way more travel than teh stock bed
[12:49:51] <_methods> those plastic gears didn't fare so well while machining steel lol
[12:50:07] <_methods> got me through cnc'n it and doing the belt mod though
[12:50:07] <spline> haha
[12:50:09] <spline> plastic gears
[12:50:21] <_methods> they will last long enough for you to convert it though
[12:50:22] <spline> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taig-CNC-Mill-/181787066387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a535a8013 <- taig on ebay now
[12:50:28] <archivist> I make plastic gears
[12:50:39] <spline> hah wow it needs a parallel port
[12:50:50] <spline> oh and they are strong enough to work reliably?
[12:50:54] <spline> I know plastics get better and better
[12:51:03] <alex4nder> spline: do you have any electronics experience?
[12:51:09] <alex4nder> or even complex electrical/wiring
[12:51:23] <spline> I know how to solder.. understand the basics on it
[12:51:31] <spline> can add outlets in the panel
[12:51:54] <spline> understand the parts of electronics but another dude I know on irc, ee master, always there to help if I needed
[12:51:56] <archivist> spline only make them for light load
[12:52:06] <spline> like I've done work with the rpi<->i2c doing a temperature monitor but a lot was prefab
[12:52:08] <alex4nder> spline: so I just did a Taig build, and used a Mesa 7i76e.. and the ethernet interface is great
[12:52:17] <spline> oh that's really cool
[12:52:21] <spline> ethernet vs usb or even parallel
[12:52:30] <alex4nder> I haven't had any problems yet. *knock on wood*
[12:52:30] <spline> when I was looking @ plasma cutters, many are also parallel
[12:52:48] <spline> but the guys who build their own use http://www.candcnc.net/
[12:52:54] <spline> which is ethernet (and really cool)
[12:53:52] <spline> well, it's why I asked about a basic system, even if im just milling plastic and basla wood
[12:54:06] <spline> kinda like "hey here's how you mill a .." doorknob or something. I understand g code
[12:54:10] <spline> or the purpose of it
[12:54:25] <spline> definitely need to learn something for cad at some point
[12:55:23] <archivist> if you have the brain for programming you can go straight to gcode and skip the cad cam part
[12:57:41] <spline> oh ha definitely not me
[12:58:02] <spline> just from owning a dremel.. it does about, everything? and I wound up getting the drill press (yeah its a joke) but
[12:58:11] <spline> like a dremel.. if you need some odd tool to do .. anything, it's great
[12:58:22] <spline> er well bad segue but my point is that I'd love to get a basic, used unit
[12:58:40] <spline> and just be able to play/explore. between forums, irc, etc it's enough to get you started
[12:59:12] <_methods> this is my x2
[12:59:15] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l16dt0km536rafh/2015-05-23%2015.29.08.jpg?dl=0
[12:59:39] <alex4nder> nice
[12:59:45] <alex4nder> spline: just get a manual mill, and convert it then.
[12:59:49] <alex4nder> you'll learn a lot
[13:00:06] <_methods> workin on the keyboard tray
[13:00:16] <_methods> going to mount that to the other monitor arm hehe
[13:00:27] <alex4nder> cool. I'm working on something similar for my enclosure
[13:00:32] <_methods> those monitor arms are only like $18 on monoprice
[13:00:46] <_methods> way cheaper than i could make them myself
[13:01:37] <alex4nder> _methods: what kind of rapids are you getting with those big steppers?
[13:01:44] <_methods> hmm no idea lol
[13:01:47] <_methods> never measured
[13:01:58] <_methods> i don't care about rapids on a table that size
[13:02:46] <alex4nder> well, let me ask it a different way: what kind of accel and IPM do you run at high spindle speeds?
[13:02:59] <PetefromTn_> it is truly amazing to me how people can take pictures of the X2 and somehow make it look really big!! I know I saw one at a local HF and that thing is TINY LOL no offence intended or implied
[13:03:50] <_methods> yeah they are tiny
[13:04:02] <_methods> and i'd have to look at my settings to tell you alex4nder
[13:04:10] <_methods> i don't remember offhand
[13:04:12] <alex4nder> cool
[13:04:39] <PetefromTn_> looks like you got some cool mods on that one man!
[13:04:47] <_methods> i just did belt mod
[13:05:03] <PetefromTn_> I know looks good
[13:05:05] <_methods> and i made up my own stepper mounts because i used those chinese ballscrews
[13:05:13] <alex4nder> _methods: the reason I'm asking is, I'm working on supporting acceleration curves in linuxcnc
[13:05:21] <_methods> ahh
[13:05:25] <_methods> i'll check when i get home
[13:05:33] <_methods> i've honestly never tried "pushing" it
[13:05:39] <_methods> to see what i could get out of it
[13:05:43] <_methods> i'm still babying it
[13:05:45] <alex4nder> yah
[13:05:50] <alex4nder> I can get > 120 IPM on the taig.
[13:06:24] <_methods> i'm always cutting steel so i'm usually around 10ipm
[13:06:28] <alex4nder> yah
[13:06:33] <_methods> i rarely get to crank it up
[13:06:49] <_methods> i really need to add some bracing to the z column though
[13:06:58] <_methods> it definitely is not as rigid as i'd like it
[13:08:57] <Jymmm> _methods: Viagra?
[13:10:30] <_methods> hahah
[13:13:17] <_methods> if that works sign my mill up
[13:14:56] <ssi> lol
[13:24:29] <PetefromTn_> There are numerous colum stiffening schemes online that look simple and easy to do. Especially for someone like you who has access to larger machinery.
[13:24:53] <PetefromTn_> I should add X2 milling machine column Stiffening schemes ;)
[13:27:29] <zeeshan> ssi , pcw
[13:27:32] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/1rsChgx8
[13:27:45] <zeeshan> or any other pid people
[13:27:51] <zeeshan> what do you think of this psuedo code
[13:27:57] <zeeshan> for controlling 2 solenoids
[13:31:17] <zeeshan> whoops found error
[13:31:38] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/PHpBXdf5
[13:31:39] <zeeshan> fixed
[13:32:15] <zeeshan> so basically if correction is positive then we need more pressure so a certain solenoid turns on
[13:32:33] <zeeshan> if correction is negative, need to remove pressure, so another solenoid gets called
[13:36:46] <_methods> PetefromTn_: heheh
[13:37:06] <_methods> yeah i'm not sure which "scheme" i'm going to go with
[13:37:36] <_methods> probably some triangle plates bolted to the sides and back
[13:38:59] <_methods> like an angle plate
[13:39:30] <archivist> I boxed my column for added stiffness, was a lathe bed
[13:40:03] <PetefromTn_> I have seen large diameter structural steel tube and large thick steel plate across the back
[13:40:19] <_methods> yeah i might do that too
[13:40:23] <_methods> probably be easier
[13:40:24] <archivist> made a big difference, the hobbymat md65 was never designed to be a mill
[13:40:39] <_methods> hahah no most lathes arent
[13:41:42] <PetefromTn_> I would think a thick walled 6" square tube or larger surface ground on one side would be simple and effective
[13:42:05] <archivist> original lathe http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_01_19_cnc/P1190001.JPG with added stiffening http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_07_10_cnc_with_LCD_P4/IMG_0267.JPG
[13:42:41] <PetefromTn_> altho as I understand it the problem is both flex in the column itself but is more the pivot mount at the bottom
[13:43:38] <_methods> yeah that pivot at the bottom isn't really helping lol
[13:43:45] <spline> alex4nder: how hard is it to "convert" ? love the setup
[13:44:03] <PetefromTn_> About to order another Hitachi WJ200 110LF for the CNC lathe project. Price actually went down a little thankfully. Driveswarehouse has it for $885 and they actually sell it for $775 on ebay with free shipping LOL
[13:44:07] <alex4nder> spline: a taig?
[13:44:32] <spline> alex4nder: from your picture you pasted on dropbox
[13:44:42] <spline> im looking for something small. unfortunately a bit squeezed on space :\
[13:44:43] <alex4nder> spline: that was _methods' x2
[13:44:51] <spline> oh ok
[13:45:00] <spline> o blah my bad
[13:45:06] <spline> just realized it was _methods link not yours
[13:45:09] <_methods> i made all my own parts so i'm not a good reference
[13:45:16] <spline> ahh cool
[13:45:16] <_methods> but the mill is $500
[13:45:25] <_methods> and the steppers and drivers were about $300
[13:45:27] <alex4nder> spline: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8PB3MLadgw <- that's my taig
[13:45:33] <_methods> the rest of it was free for me
[13:45:40] <PetefromTn_> If you are interested in one that size the 0704 is a little larger and reasonably well regarded..
[13:45:43] <archivist> I made my adapters, rest was cheap
[13:45:44] <alex4nder> spline: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoB7TFStIQg <- that's running a "slow" version of the LinuxCNC plot
[13:45:50] <_methods> yes i'd go with the 0704
[13:45:54] <_methods> if i had it to do over
[13:46:13] <spline> damn nice
[13:46:32] <archivist> I have rebuilt the X, old X is now Y
[13:46:54] <alex4nder> spline: this is my second taig.. I bought them both manual, and converted them myself.
[13:46:59] <PetefromTn_> LOL so you are MR. 88172631 then huh
[13:47:30] <alex4nder> PetefromTn_: haha, yes
[13:47:50] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[13:49:12] <PetefromTn_> should be simpler than the Cincinatti to get the VFD running on the CNC lathe. This motor does not have to spin 12k RPM :D
[13:49:34] <_methods> so that's all you have left on your lathe?
[13:49:44] <PetefromTn_> why shit no..
[13:49:53] <PetefromTn_> Just ordering components right now
[13:50:01] <PetefromTn_> worked more on painting the carcass this weekend
[13:50:10] <PetefromTn_> still got some more painting to do
[13:50:26] <PetefromTn_> Been waiting on cash to be able to afford it all..
[13:50:42] <PetefromTn_> Looking like $3500.00 total to get it going the way I want it..
[13:51:37] <_methods> not too bad
[13:51:45] <_methods> taken in chunks
[13:51:48] <PetefromTn_> no not in the grand scheme of things
[13:52:13] <PetefromTn_> I probably have enough potential customers work waiting to pay myself back for it
[13:52:19] <PetefromTn_> but gotta ante up first
[13:52:38] <PetefromTn_> business has been slowly picking up over the last few months so that has helped
[13:52:40] <_methods> you can't use any of the existing servos and drives?
[13:53:08] <PetefromTn_> and I just sold my Bronco for a tidy profit and bought a lesser expensive vehicle for the time being
[13:53:18] <PetefromTn_> There really were no existing servos and drives
[13:53:31] <PetefromTn_> just a single motor on the X axis and it is an oddball one.
[13:53:37] <PetefromTn_> Gonna sell it here hopefully
[13:54:13] <_methods> ah
[13:54:19] <_methods> well that makes that decision easy then
[13:54:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah no choice really just bite the bullet and pay up sucker ;)
[13:55:03] <PetefromTn_> I really prefer to use brand new components tho it worked quite well for me on the Cincinatti so far.
[13:55:24] <PetefromTn_> probably gonna have to invest in some new cabling too tho.
[13:55:47] <PetefromTn_> There is a BUNCH of wire leftover from the Cincinatti COnversion which I will use as much as possible
[13:56:28] <PetefromTn_> but I will probably have to buy a lot of the heavier gauge cables for the VFD and drives to power. Going to try to order the new motors and drives complete with premade cables tho.
[13:58:42] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_:Oh come on... Just take all that scrap wire, melt it down, and make your own heavy guage cables!
[14:00:29] <PetefromTn_> yeah sorry unlike some guys I do not wish to learn every possible metalworking genre on my way to a complete CNC shop hehe
[14:01:07] <Jymmm> _methods: 1/2@500ft pex-al-pex $174 shipped free (34¢/ft)
[14:01:15] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Lazy bastard!
[14:01:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah I guess ;)
[14:01:49] <Jymmm> =)
[14:01:58] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: But explosive forming is cool!
[14:02:15] <PetefromTn_> Explosive ANYTHING is cool... well maybe not diarrhea
[14:02:35] <_methods> hahahahha
[14:02:44] <Jymmm> _methods: 1/2"@300ft = $109 shipped free (36¢/ft)
[14:02:57] <_methods> not too shabby
[14:03:11] <Jymmm> _methods: Click the "FREE SHIPPING ONLY" box... http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-al-pex-tubing-sizes
[14:03:59] <_methods> that's really reasonable i may do my garage in that
[14:04:06] <_methods> one day
[14:04:43] <Jymmm> _methods: That site also says it's compatible with sharkbite fittings (aka home depot ones)
[14:05:13] <shaun413> sharkbites are the shit
[14:05:25] <Jymmm> _methods: FYI... NOT for potable water
[14:05:28] <Jymmm> shaun413: how so?
[14:05:33] <shaun413> they are good
[14:05:50] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[14:06:05] <Jymmm> I missed the word 'the' in there
[14:06:20] <shaun413> lol
[14:06:47] <Jymmm> I've never used them, so no clue, just know they are available locally at 9pm on a sunday
[14:07:48] <Jymmm> shaun413: did you do a replumb or repair?
[14:08:15] <shaun413> repairs
[14:08:21] <shaun413> i wouldnt use them for replumbing
[14:08:28] <shaun413> but they are great for repairs
[14:08:39] <Jymmm> why not? price?
[14:08:44] <shaun413> yeah
[14:08:59] <Jymmm> They are reusable too I read
[14:09:04] <shaun413> probably
[14:09:10] <shaun413> easy to remove with the tool as well
[14:09:17] <Jymmm> you just need the $2 tool to remove the line
[14:09:43] <shaun413> yes
[14:10:08] <PetefromTn_> thats funny they use them for almost all the plumbing including sinks here nowadays...
[14:10:32] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: pex or sharkbite repair fittings?
[14:10:52] <PetefromTn_> Oh I thought you were talking pex...
[14:11:12] <PetefromTn_> sharkbites are okay for it too tho no??
[14:11:14] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Kinda, harkbite repairs fittings FOR pex
[14:11:34] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Yes, just cost more than the standard pex fittings
[14:11:52] <PetefromTn_> I have a few joining some copper water lines to my water heater
[14:11:58] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: but they are press fit, no crimping
[14:12:02] <PetefromTn_> oh hell yeah they are not cheap
[14:12:47] <shaun413> yepo..
[14:13:00] <Jymmm> compared to $1 crimp fitting
[14:13:08] <shaun413> like 10 bucks?
[14:13:13] <shaun413> or something iirc
[14:13:37] <Jymmm> $14 in some cases
[14:13:50] <shaun413> yeah
[14:14:05] <Jymmm> But just keep a few on hand for quick repairs, and then recrimp later for a full repair
[14:15:07] <Jymmm> It's like brass compression fitting, then later on sweat on a copper fittings
[14:22:39] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you gettin 2 rolls of pex?
[14:22:45] <Tom_itx> color coded of course...
[14:33:37] <robin_sz> hey Pete
[14:33:50] <robin_sz> hows the anodizing plant going?
[14:34:58] <robin_sz> oh hes gone haha
[14:36:37] <robin_sz> so, how do I upgrade a 2.6.8 to 2.7.x?
[14:36:51] <robin_sz> i tried apt-get upgrade ... nothing
[14:38:13] <cradek> there is not yet an official 2.7 release
[14:38:51] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/index.html#_upgrade_to_the_new_version
[14:39:45] <Tom_itx> i followed that to get from 2.6 to 2.7
[14:50:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Maybe... pex-al-pex for running airline (nitrogen), and maybe plumbing pex for replubing the whole place (a section at a time)
[14:50:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: so technically I geuss that would be red blue and orange =)
[14:54:04] <Jymmm> So, if I aly down foam board, I can just staple the pex to it??? http://www.amazon.com/Malco-FBSN-Foamboard-Stapler/dp/B0014EES7C/
[14:54:07] <Jymmm> lay*
[14:57:16] <fishheadsoup> pcw_home: hey, what's the difference between the -16 and -25 on the 7I80HD???
[14:59:06] <Tom_itx> fishheadsoup, size
[15:00:08] <fishheadsoup> fpga size?
[15:00:19] <Tom_itx> xc6slx16 / 25 i think
[15:00:26] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[15:00:56] <fishheadsoup> can the -16 handle 6 servo axes?
[15:01:12] <Tom_itx> i don't see why not
[15:01:24] <Tom_itx> but i haven't tried it
[15:02:00] <fishheadsoup> ok, thanks. not much diff in cost, so maybe i'll do the -25 for starters.
[15:02:12] <ssi> the 5i25 is an lx9, and it can run two 7i77s for 12 servos total
[15:02:16] <ssi> so I imagine the lx16 will be fine
[15:02:37] <Tom_itx> you do need to make sure you load the right bit files if there are different fpga size for your board
[15:26:36] <fishheadsoup> Tom_itx: yes, I understand about the bit files and all. Just need to know if it's equivalent to a 5i20 or 5i24 or so. I see in the support bit files all the usual configurations.
[15:30:11] <Jymmm> $9.25 for a 1" lead free pex brass ball valve, seems reasonable, no? What is "Full Port"? No reduction from the 1" internally?
[15:46:28] <fishheadsoup> PCW: thanks. ordered 2 7i80-16.
[16:21:57] <Cromalious> sucks tobe me... think I have abroken ankle or a torn ligiment
[16:22:21] <SpeedEvil> We can rebuild him!
[16:22:29] <SpeedEvil> Can anyone cast titanium?
[16:22:37] <SpeedEvil> I've got an old door-hinge, and some piano wire.
[16:22:57] <Deejay> aluminum must be good enough in this case ;)
[16:23:11] <Cromalious> yeah hot glue didn't work
[16:24:38] <Cromalious> broke out the walker to hobble around with
[16:25:10] <JT-Shop> wow your lucky you have a walker
[16:25:41] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:50] <Cromalious> it was my mom-n-laws
[16:26:01] <Cromalious> nite nite Deejay
[16:28:03] <JT-Shop> don't you wish you were born here http://listverse.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cite-soleil.jpg
[16:28:54] <PCW> thats depressing
[16:29:11] <JT-Shop> http://listverse.com/2013/10/04/10-places-around-the-world-you-wouldnt-want-to-live/
[16:29:14] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:29:20] <Jymmm> Rather wish she wasn't
[16:29:31] <JT-Shop> makes you thankful for what you have even if it is not much
[16:29:39] <Cromalious> that wasn't a snicker bar
[16:31:06] <Jymmm> WHOA a population density of 3,250,000 people per square mile
[16:31:27] <Cromalious> laying here listening to Glenn Woods Bold Republic yuotube radio show
[16:34:03] <LeelooMinai> Jymmm: That's not that bad. Square mile is 2.6 million meteres squared
[16:34:30] <MrSunshine> finaly started drawing on my new cnc machine =) will be fun to see how it ends up after casting =)
[16:34:38] <LeelooMinai> So each one has almost 1 meter squared for themselves
[16:34:41] <MrSunshine> gonna be a beast of a machine atleast =)
[16:34:45] <Jymmm> The US national avg population density is 1100 per sq mile, Teh SF Bay area is 9000 per sq mile
[16:35:17] <Jymmm> But 3.2MILLION per sq mile?!
[16:36:59] <zeeshan> http://turbozee84.imgur.com/all/
[16:37:01] <zeeshan> can you see this link
[16:37:03] <zeeshan> or access denied
[16:37:17] <LeelooMinai> You can fit in 1 m^2 fine, as long as you don't stretch the arms:)
[16:37:19] <Jymmm> turbozee84's images are not publicly available.
[16:37:28] <zeeshan> now?
[16:37:40] <Jymmm> nope
[16:37:52] <Jymmm> just open a private browser window
[16:38:30] <Jymmm> I can see your other albums though
[16:38:59] <Jymmm> zeeshan: You looke really cute in your pink fishnet stockings
[16:52:10] <zeeshan> man i can't figure out
[16:52:24] <zeeshan> how to determine each solenoid's on time based on the CORRECTION which is in psi
[16:53:35] <PCW> CORRECTION is the PID output?
[16:53:52] <zeeshan> yes
[16:54:01] <zeeshan> do you see my psuedo code?
[16:54:03] <zeeshan> http://pastebin.com/PHpBXdf5
[16:55:15] <zeeshan> like basically error is in term of psi
[16:55:22] <zeeshan> so the correction will be in term of psi
[16:55:50] <PCW> actuall the PID output will be ~PSI/sec
[16:56:07] <zeeshan> where is time coming from?
[16:56:25] <zeeshan> will i be running the pid loop at a certain rate?
[16:56:32] <PCW> rate of change of PSI when valve is open
[16:57:42] <PCW> Yes you need a fixed cycle time (say 1 second)
[16:58:08] <PCW> which is the PWM period
[16:58:27] <zeeshan> the rate of change of psi
[16:58:37] <zeeshan> is just dCorrection is it not?
[17:00:01] <PCW> no, think of this as a velocity mode servo, the command is PSI/sec (well except of an exponential as you get close to the high pressure side PSI in the chamber)
[17:01:08] <zeeshan> okay i think i follow you
[17:01:11] <zeeshan> the error is in psi
[17:01:21] <zeeshan> but since we know the pid loop cycle time
[17:01:34] <zeeshan> i just take the correction factor i've currently got in the psuedo code
[17:01:38] <zeeshan> and divide it by cycle time
[17:02:42] <zeeshan> if cycle time is 1 sec, and correction is 5.15psi for example
[17:02:49] <zeeshan> the command should be 5.15psi/s
[17:02:56] <zeeshan> but now how does that relate to duty cycle of the solenoid?
[17:05:06] <PCW> you said the you got .4 PSI delta for .5 seconds of valve actuation so you are limited .8 PSI per second at full on
[17:05:08] <PCW> (we under you test conditions this is all very non-linear)
[17:05:55] <zeeshan> so i need a calibration factor for the command
[17:06:11] <PCW> thats the P term
[17:06:40] <zeeshan> oh
[17:06:51] <zeeshan> so my kp will automatically have that calibration factor
[17:06:52] <zeeshan> makes sense
[17:07:13] <zeeshan> i feel like it needs to be normalized to limit duty cycle from 0 to 80% for example
[17:09:27] <PCW> note that the gain will vary exponentially with an asymptote to 0 when the setpoint is at the high and low side pressure when you get close to either the high side or low side pressure
[17:10:15] <PCW> (since the flow rate decreases to 0 at these points)
[17:10:28] <zeeshan> so what are you proposing? :)
[17:11:27] <PCW> Ether dont run the chamber close to the high or low side pressures or perhaps do some gain scheduling
[17:11:41] <zeeshan> what is "high side pressure"
[17:11:45] <zeeshan> just so i am on the same page
[17:12:07] <PCW> your compressed air source
[17:12:16] <zeeshan> and low side being atmospheric
[17:12:42] <PCW> Right (or vacuum if you wish)
[17:12:47] <zeeshan> yea ill never run close to high side
[17:12:50] <zeeshan> but low side i need to be close to 0
[17:13:06] <Jymmm> zeeshan: In refrigeration units. high side is whats shves the refrigerant thru a nozzle and makes it cold. The low side is the return.
[17:13:20] <zeeshan> Jymmm: im just making sure :)
[17:13:28] <zeeshan> ive been doing too much different stuff to assume things at this point
[17:13:29] <Jymmm> zeeshan: no worries =)
[17:13:31] <zeeshan> and be even more confused!
[17:13:43] <Jymmm> zeeshan: I totally understnad. Been there, done that.
[17:14:07] <ssi> zeeshan: I have a popsicle.
[17:14:23] <Jymmm> I have otter pops!!!!
[17:14:24] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i should basically think of my "Correction" as command and command is in term of duty cycle
[17:14:34] <zeeshan> ssi can i has
[17:14:37] * JT-Shop relaxes with a Weihenstephaner Original
[17:14:44] <ssi> Jymmm: that's basically what I have
[17:14:46] <ssi> but diffrent bran
[17:14:47] <ssi> d
[17:14:51] <Jymmm> ah
[17:14:51] <ssi> zeeshan: yus
[17:15:25] <Jymmm> What is a cheap high CFM 12VDC fan/blower?
[17:15:30] <zeeshan> man doing this pid work
[17:15:39] <zeeshan> is really making me understand control in general
[17:15:41] <zeeshan> like i never have before
[17:15:46] <zeeshan> thanks to you guys!
[17:15:49] <zeeshan> <3 pcw
[17:16:47] <zeeshan> PCW: do you think having that if statement which ensures 30mS has passed
[17:16:48] <Jymmm> (Bromance)
[17:16:53] <zeeshan> before setting a command is a good idea?
[17:17:05] <zeeshan> so that way the solenoids arent being switched under 30ms
[17:17:09] <zeeshan> and basically doing nothing
[17:17:33] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIsw8n5VAAAYSvl.jpg:large
[17:17:39] <zeeshan> ssi
[17:17:42] <zeeshan> why arent you a pid expert yet
[17:17:45] <zeeshan> youv ebeen taking that course!
[17:17:57] <ssi> I was already a pid expert duh
[17:18:01] <zeeshan> youre slacking
[17:18:03] <zeeshan> !
[17:18:09] <PCW> Yeah probably 50 or so MS to do anything
[17:18:11] <ssi> now I sorta understand kalmann filters too
[17:18:26] <zeeshan> dude i used linuxcnc filtering code on my shit
[17:18:26] <zeeshan> lol
[17:18:32] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/1bFmi9O.png
[17:18:35] <zeeshan> came out pretty nice !
[17:19:34] <zeeshan> i wonder how i can tune this without hal scope
[17:19:52] <zeeshan> i was thinking zieger nichols to get my close
[17:19:53] <zeeshan> *me
[17:20:31] <ssi> you're dying to use zn aren't you :P
[17:20:35] <zeeshan> haha yea!
[17:20:38] <ssi> this is actually a pretty ok application for zn
[17:20:52] <zeeshan> id treat it as 2nd order id think
[17:20:58] * ssi is about to bust out some verilog for commutation conversion
[17:21:14] <MrSunshine> heh, thats lucky ... i just made the portal 500mm wide .. and wanted about 300mm movement of the machine side to side .. and the bering blocks was 85mm wide (two of them butt to butt) and i end up with 330mm movement =)
[17:21:18] <MrSunshine> perfect =)
[17:21:23] <zeeshan> isnt verilog used for programming fpgs?
[17:21:25] <zeeshan> fpgas
[17:21:30] <ssi> yes
[17:21:35] <zeeshan> dude i finally know what a fpga is
[17:21:38] <zeeshan> they are pretty sweet
[17:21:39] <ssi> haha
[17:22:02] <zeeshan> a fpga is basically any IC / microcoontroller/ whatever
[17:22:12] <zeeshan> it can even be an ADC
[17:22:20] <zeeshan> looks very complex to work with though
[17:22:36] <ssi> an fpga is a huge array of logic gates that you can programmatically wire together in nearly infinite combinations
[17:22:43] <zeeshan> yes
[17:22:55] <zeeshan> which literally means you can make an atmega in it
[17:22:58] <zeeshan> if you really wanted to
[17:23:01] <ssi> yes
[17:23:05] <zeeshan> i think thats sweet
[17:23:10] <zeeshan> i can see why mesa uses a fpga now
[17:23:12] <ssi> I first started messing with fpgas back in like 2000 or 2001
[17:23:19] <ssi> I had a spartan3 devboard from digilent
[17:23:24] <zeeshan> its custom designed for hardware control of signal processing
[17:23:25] <zeeshan> for servos etc
[17:23:29] <ssi> and I made a serial terminal with it
[17:23:42] <zeeshan> thats cool dude
[17:23:49] <ssi> had to bitbang vga, read ps2 keyboard lines, implement a scroll buffer, make my own font, all of it
[17:23:53] <ssi> it was pretty cool
[17:23:58] <zeeshan> like take the 5i25 for example
[17:24:06] <zeeshan> something like that prolly takes a good year to develop
[17:24:08] <zeeshan> i'd think?
[17:24:15] <zeeshan> and you have to be super competent
[17:24:15] <ssi> the actual hardware is very simple
[17:24:20] <ssi> the hm2 firmwares for it are the magic
[17:24:23] <zeeshan> i mean the firmware
[17:24:24] <ssi> there's a lot of moving parts
[17:24:26] <zeeshan> to program it
[17:24:34] <furrywolf> I was learning verilog and planning on a project around 2000-2001, but it never happened.
[17:24:35] <ssi> the firmware, the drivers, the daughterboards
[17:24:59] <zeeshan> im glad i know th is stuff
[17:25:03] <zeeshan> now im not gonna be an ignorant mech eng
[17:25:04] <zeeshan> :D
[17:25:05] <ssi> there are a lot of layers in a mesa-based linuxcnc-controlled machine
[17:25:52] <ssi> axis, tp, motion, hal, hm2 drivers, hm2 on the fpga, daughterboard, servo drives
[17:26:02] <zeeshan> PCW: do i need to divide by cycle time anywhere?
[17:26:08] <zeeshan> or will that also be factored in P?
[17:26:09] <PCW> as someone that grew up with individual gates in chips they are incredible in that what used to be hardwired on a PCB is now programmable
[17:26:18] <ssi> they really are incredible
[17:26:32] <furrywolf> I still have bins of 74xx and 4000 logic...
[17:26:38] <zeeshan> ssi you really need to understand what these things are
[17:26:38] <ssi> yea me too
[17:26:41] <zeeshan> before you realize how complex they are
[17:26:44] <ssi> zeeshan: yep
[17:26:46] <zeeshan> to a normal person like me
[17:26:48] <zeeshan> they were just a chip
[17:27:16] <ssi> zeeshan: so now you can see what I was doing last year
[17:27:24] <ssi> I designed a board with a cpld on it
[17:27:27] <ssi> a cpld is like a baby fpga
[17:27:30] <PCW> to do your PWM in software you probably should run your loop at 50 Hz or so
[17:27:37] <ssi> and I was using it to do the commutation conversion
[17:27:56] <ssi> but since I mostly suck I neglected to provide myself an oscillator, so I was limited to only asynchronous designs
[17:28:07] <zeeshan> 20ms
[17:28:14] <zeeshan> i guess i can't use sleep anymore
[17:28:25] <zeeshan> cause that garbage doesnt work below 50ms
[17:28:34] <ssi> my original plan was to do a very simple state table type translation, but because of the 16/6 commutation ratio, it was too lumpy
[17:28:37] <furrywolf> eh, I've found usleep() to be pretty accurate, at least on linux.
[17:28:48] <ssi> when I wanted to hack in encoder counting, it didn't work out because I had no clock
[17:29:01] <ssi> so now I'm using a 7i90 as if it were just an fpga devboard to do it
[17:29:15] <zeeshan> haha nice
[17:29:25] <ssi> it'll just be a standalone piece of hardware
[17:29:38] <PCW> I have used ring oscillators in CPLDs for this purpose
[17:29:39] <ssi> eventually I'd like to learn how to use a 7i90 as a smartserial remote, I think that'd be pretty sweet
[17:29:41] <zeeshan> cycle time is factored in P right PCW?
[17:29:44] <ssi> but I gotta walk before I run right
[17:29:48] <zeeshan> so i dont actually need to divide it
[17:29:50] <ssi> PCW: ooh I'd like to know more about that
[17:30:01] <ssi> just use flipflops and the timing delays to make an oscillator?
[17:30:05] <furrywolf> usleep is excellent for ms timings, bad for us timings.
[17:30:18] <zeeshan> furrywolf: what languaGE IS THAT
[17:30:19] <zeeshan> ER
[17:30:27] <PCW> you have to trick the compiler to leave all the stages in the ring
[17:30:28] <zeeshan> this c# online says sleep is no good below 50ms
[17:30:43] <ssi> haha gotcha
[17:30:55] <ssi> "The most critical part was to prevent xst from optimizing away the ring oscillator. This is achieved by the "keep" syntheses attributes."
[17:30:58] <furrywolf> sleep and usleep are standard C calls, that I'd hope C# implements...
[17:31:53] <furrywolf> my guess is windows simply can't do anything within 50ms accuracy, so they didn't bother designing a language that supported it?
[17:32:01] <PCW> OK so 20 Hz
[17:32:05] <zeeshan> lol
[17:32:18] <zeeshan> how to test
[17:32:26] <zeeshan> im just basing it what i read online
[17:34:56] <furrywolf> does c# pretend to implement posix? I've never played with it.
[17:35:22] <furrywolf> or, rather, does its libraries...
[17:35:23] <zeeshan> yes
[17:35:33] <zeeshan> you can run the same code in linux through mono
[17:35:36] <zeeshan> windows and mac
[17:35:40] <zeeshan> without having to change anything
[17:35:44] <zeeshan> makes it kinda nice in that sense
[17:35:51] <furrywolf> that sounds more like a "no" to me.
[17:35:54] <zeeshan> lol
[17:39:47] <furrywolf> yeah, googling suggests c# doesn't even remotely pretend to be compatible with any standards on the planet, of any kind, ever.
[17:43:56] <zeeshan> i dont like the langauge
[17:43:57] <zeeshan> at all :P
[17:45:54] <ssi> C# isn't related in any way to C or C++
[17:46:58] <MrFluffy> ah, its nice and portable, just like java then
[17:47:43] <furrywolf> no, it's not.
[17:47:48] <MrFluffy> that was a joke in case its too subtle :)
[17:48:04] <MrFluffy> java aka write once and fiddle with for each platform...
[17:48:17] <ssi> java was actually intended to be portable
[17:48:20] <ssi> C# wasn't
[17:48:21] <furrywolf> it was not designed with portability in mind in any fashion, while java was. it's only marginally portable because third parties have, for reasons unknown, decided to write interfaces for it.
[17:48:31] <MrFluffy> yes the road to hell was paved with intentions like that...
[17:48:50] <MrFluffy> because miguel d'icarza was sponsored by microsoft...
[17:49:10] <MrFluffy> and shonked mono into linux despite lots of pushback
[17:49:35] <MrFluffy> and now, people dont need to bother making apps work natively, because wheeeee you can run them under mono (and crash a lot)
[17:50:09] <MrFluffy> classic embrace and extend...
[17:51:49] <zeeshan> okay i basically logged time
[17:51:55] <zeeshan> and output it into a file and got the difference
[17:52:00] <MrFluffy> and a certain richard stallman described icaza as "traitor to the free software community" .. but enough
[17:52:02] <zeeshan> im getting 0.027s
[17:52:07] <zeeshan> so the people online were right
[17:52:14] <zeeshan> under 50ms its no good
[17:56:24] <furrywolf> bbl
[18:01:36] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/IrLUzPb.png
[18:01:38] <zeeshan> no good1
[18:14:35] <jdh> online people are always right!
[18:20:04] <MrFluffy> gnite all
[19:24:15] <ssi> hm
[20:07:33] <PCW> a cheap 1G switch adds about 30 usec to each hm2-eth packet but packets sent/received from multiple remotes should overlap
[20:07:34] <PCW> so even with store+forward delays its shoudl be possible to support multiple hm2-eth remotes without much overhead for
[20:07:36] <PCW> additional channels as long as the host per-packet overhead is low (netmap maybe?)
[20:12:19] <os1r1s> PCW: Is that particularly impactful for motion contorl?
[20:12:21] <os1r1s> control
[20:14:22] <PCW> not too much since our FPGA cards are mostly used one to a system but it mean its probably
[20:14:24] <PCW> possible to use multiple of our Ethernet cards in real time in a 1-2 KHz servo loop environment
[20:35:51] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIteY2RUMAARHUi.jpg:large
[20:35:56] <ssi> got this servo fully wired up
[20:35:58] <ssi> inputs anyway
[20:36:10] * Jymmm still wating for 10GigE Mesa cards
[20:36:22] <ssi> I need seven inputs and three outputs per servo... I was hoping I could do all three servos on one 7i42TA but I'm six pins short :(
[20:37:23] <Jymmm> and a few screws too
[20:38:17] <ssi> I have plenty of screws
[20:38:27] <Jymmm> they're ALL loose
[20:38:32] <ssi> yes, they're all loos
[20:38:34] <ssi> but I have them
[20:39:00] <Jymmm> only in your imagination
[20:39:01] <zeeshan> looking sexy ssi
[20:39:18] <zeeshan> why no shielding bro
[20:39:21] <zeeshan> on your encoder signal
[20:39:45] <ssi> the SE ones ought to be shielded
[20:39:50] <ssi> but i'm working with what I have for testing
[20:39:55] <zeeshan> ah
[20:39:58] <zeeshan> my shit is shielded
[20:40:04] <zeeshan> almost 1/2" from connector
[20:40:08] <zeeshan> i wasnt gonna take any chances
[20:40:25] <Jymmm> zeeshan: both ends connected?
[20:41:04] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i might be a noob sometimes
[20:41:06] <zeeshan> but not that noob :P
[20:41:16] <Jymmm> that didnt answer my question
[20:41:25] <zeeshan> i find your question offensive
[20:41:29] <zeeshan> im gonna come over
[20:41:34] <ssi> I find your answer evasive :D
[20:41:35] <zeeshan> and put a shit load of ground loops on your cnc !
[20:41:47] <zeeshan> all my stuff is groudned at 1 point
[20:41:48] <zeeshan> for shield grounds
[20:41:53] * ssi loops a ground wire around zeeshan's mill
[20:41:57] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:42:07] <zeeshan> dude just put an antenna coming out of the vfd
[20:42:12] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Yeah, come over. I have the power washer ut adn I'll show you offensive alright
[20:42:14] <zeeshan> no amount of shielding aint gonna stop that
[20:42:41] <zeeshan> the vfd on my ancient bead roller 1hp
[20:42:43] <PetefromTn_> power washer LOL
[20:42:48] <zeeshan> using some like 80s vfd drive by abb
[20:42:52] <zeeshan> when i turn that thing on
[20:42:57] <zeeshan> it crashes my lathe computer lol
[20:42:59] <Jymmm> zeeshan: 1500psi up your buttholio!!!
[20:43:11] <zeeshan> Jymmm: will need that much pressure to clewan it!
[20:43:13] <PetefromTn_> only 1500 WEAK!!
[20:43:45] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I was being "gentle", it'll be zeeshan 200th time
[20:43:46] <zeeshan> PCW: how important is the loop time for the pid loop
[20:43:52] <zeeshan> lets say it fluctuates 8 ms
[20:43:54] <zeeshan> is that a big deal?
[20:43:59] <zeeshan> when your base rate is 50
[20:43:59] <PetefromTn_> ah
[20:45:51] <zeeshan> i got an email today from the safety officer
[20:45:56] <zeeshan> "unsafe experimental apparatus"
[20:45:57] <zeeshan> ROFL
[20:46:12] <zeeshan> giving me shit cause i have a piec eof paper on top of the live terminals of the power supply
[20:46:18] <zeeshan> and not an actual cover
[20:46:19] <PetefromTn_> tell him to eat a big ol' pile of shitcake..
[20:46:59] <Rab> zeeshan, haha, I think he has a point.
[20:50:31] <os1r1s> PCW: Can you help me to understand something about hte mesa cards? It seems that the PCI/PCIe models do more to offload the host (on a stepper driven system) than an ethernet one. Is that accurate?
[20:52:40] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Ksee0zq.jpg
[20:52:43] <zeeshan> this is not safe enough?
[20:54:43] <Rab> I see a barrier that isn't actually a barrier, but is a fuel source.
[20:55:20] <Jymmm> zeeshan: You didn't twist the sensor wires
[20:56:21] <zeeshan> Jymmm: i used tp ethernet cable
[20:56:21] <zeeshan> copper
[20:56:26] <zeeshan> sexy stuff!
[20:56:33] <zeeshan> rab lol
[20:56:42] <Jymmm> zeeshan: In the pic they are not twisted
[20:57:22] <Rab> zeeshan, I would make a polycarbonate sheet cover or something like that.
[20:57:49] <Rab> Anybody leans on that envelope, the terminals could punch straight through it.
[20:58:08] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CItjTZQUMAAU_wx.jpg:large
[20:58:11] <ssi> debug console :P
[20:58:20] <Rab> Electrical tape would be better than the envelope.
[21:09:10] <PetefromTn_> ssi whaddya working on?
[21:11:05] <ssi> commutation converters
[21:14:33] <PetefromTn_> ok
[21:15:10] <zeeshan> Rab: acrylic too crap for you now!
[21:19:56] <PetefromTn_> Damn I goofed up and need to somehow do a partial bank/paypal payment not even sure if that is possible without clearing out my paypal account sigh
[21:20:23] <zeeshan> call em?
[21:20:25] <zeeshan> maybe they can help
[21:20:55] <PetefromTn_> usually if you use paypal at all they take everything in your account down to zero if the cost is OVER what you have in there
[21:21:16] <PetefromTn_> trying to order up these components for the CNC lathe and did not account for this LOL
[21:21:31] <PetefromTn_> might have to transfer to the bank but it takes three days usually
[21:32:49] <ssi> passive converter is working on the debug lights
[21:35:33] <zeeshan> whatcha ordering PetefromTn_
[21:35:55] <PetefromTn_> trying to order the components for the CNC lathe finally
[21:36:07] <zeeshan> sweet
[21:36:12] <zeeshan> servos?
[21:36:20] <PetefromTn_> trying to order the Hitachi drive for the spindle right now
[21:36:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah probably going servos and drives new
[21:36:41] <zeeshan> did you decide on the 7.5HP?
[21:36:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah already have the motor here
[21:36:54] <zeeshan> oh yea you were making that plate
[21:36:57] <PetefromTn_> yup
[21:36:58] <zeeshan> how did that go
[21:37:04] <PetefromTn_> not done it yet
[21:37:33] <PetefromTn_> Been working on customers stuff for awhile now and kinda put the lathe aside while I gathered cash to buy all the electronics parts
[21:38:06] <PetefromTn_> It was a considerable amount of cash at least for me so I just been stripping and painting the machine in the mean time.
[21:38:25] <PetefromTn_> really excited to finally be able to start ordering parts for it finally.
[21:38:44] <PetefromTn_> it has REALLY sucked not having a lathe lemme tell you...
[21:39:26] <PetefromTn_> I almost just bought a used manual lathe a couple times but that would take money away from the CNC lathe project which is really what I need here
[21:40:01] <PetefromTn_> Oh I also started working on the Anodizing station this week
[21:40:04] <Jymmm> buy it, use it, sell it for a profit
[21:40:38] <Tom_itx> nothing like buying a gallon of paint to cover the whole house
[21:40:45] <PetefromTn_> I just ordered the power supply and got a bunch of nice coolers for the tanks. Trying to decide on where to get the nickel acetate and degreaser/desmut and etch stuff
[21:41:28] <PetefromTn_> I have some decent paying jobs going on here now and hopefully once they are completed I can maybe pickup another manual lathe.
[21:42:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: say what?
[21:42:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: that aint painting, that be whit washin
[21:43:08] <Tom_itx> just wondering if pete is spreading it a little too thin is all
[21:43:14] <PetefromTn_> I think it was sort of a crack on my trying to build a CNC shop on a shoestring
[21:43:36] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Thats the story of my life man!!
[21:43:41] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:43:56] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: You COULD get a manual lathe you intend to CNC
[21:44:30] <PetefromTn_> Honestly tho now that the Cincinatti is working pretty well and the CNC lathe won't be far behind it is starting to look like something.
[21:44:41] <PetefromTn_> I also do Tig welding and fabrication work here
[21:44:55] <PetefromTn_> and the Occasional Custom cabinet job LOL...
[21:45:09] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: quick release motors form mill to lathe
[21:45:12] <Jymmm> from*
[21:45:14] <PetefromTn_> I honestly sold my manual lathe because I wanted a CNC lathe
[21:45:29] <PetefromTn_> naah that is too much of a pain in the ass
[21:46:01] <PetefromTn_> I am ALMOST there finally with the CNC lathe.
[21:46:26] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I thought cheap bastard were able to pinch a penny between their ass cheeks and get back a nickle? If so, then iy should be toopainful on your ass
[21:46:27] <PetefromTn_> once it is online I HOPE that I can get a bunch of work for it. Already have a bunch of projects waiting for it.
[21:46:47] <PetefromTn_> I wish I could man but I must not have the ass cheek muscles!
[21:46:56] <Valen> so, aside from noise/damping is there any reason not to make the frame of a machine out of steel rather than cast iron?
[21:47:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: ebay "buns of steel"
[21:47:20] <PetefromTn_> Maybe I need to do some lunges or some shit
[21:48:00] <PetefromTn_> Getting some cool lettering signs for the windows of my shop van made up...maybe it will bring in some more work...maybe
[21:48:39] <PetefromTn_> Valen what kind of machine?
[21:48:46] <Tom_itx> nothing can replace a manual lathe though
[21:49:01] <Valen> lathe/mill etc
[21:49:08] <Valen> machine tool
[21:49:15] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I am kinda excited about this flatbed CNC lathe. It is kind of BOTH at the same time
[21:49:40] <Tom_itx> Valen, is cast iron less prone to temperature changes?
[21:49:46] <Valen> I mean is there an inherent property of steel that is bad? (every other Wednesday it creeps or something)
[21:49:48] <Tom_itx> expansion etc
[21:49:50] <PetefromTn_> Valen on the smaller scale that guy from Fadal made his little VMC out of structural steel tubing.. seems to work quite well
[21:50:08] <Valen> I believe steel and cast iron are pretty similar wrt thermal expansion Tom_itx
[21:50:19] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[21:50:19] <PetefromTn_> LOL My entire Cincinatti VMC aside from the cast millhead itself is one bigass steel plate weldment
[21:50:22] <Valen> PetefromTn_: got a link?
[21:50:34] <PetefromTn_> hang on
[21:50:44] <Valen> (for both yours and the fadal guy)
[21:51:04] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISzkthutKnA
[21:51:35] <PetefromTn_> mine is a commercial built Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC
[21:53:15] <PetefromTn_> That is Dave Decaussin he is one of the founders of FADAL machine tools.
[21:54:43] <Valen> heh, so cost is really no object lol
[21:54:54] <Tom_itx> iirc my bud's first fadal may have been a 15
[21:54:54] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
[21:55:18] <Valen> he won't be caring too much what that machine cost ;->
[21:55:22] <PetefromTn_> I like the VMC15XT wanted one when I was looking and found the CInci
[21:55:24] <Valen> what is the spindle in that thing?
[21:55:58] <PetefromTn_> honestly it LOOKS like a chinese bedmill spindle cartridge modified but it may be proprietary
[21:56:50] <Valen> we are trying to find an ATC spindle for our new build
[21:57:15] <PetefromTn_> there are some ISO spindles available online as I recall
[21:57:47] <Valen> we found some from aliexpres for ~$2.5K but that is about all the info there is on them
[21:58:10] <PetefromTn_> oh you are talking about a complete motorized spindle then
[21:58:17] <Valen> we were yeah
[21:58:24] <Valen> but its all in freeform at the moment
[21:58:45] <PetefromTn_> can't go wrong spending your money on the spindle
[21:58:54] <Valen> damn that thing is ripping through the Al there
[21:59:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah it really is quite an impressive little beast
[21:59:23] <Valen> ok I want one lol
[21:59:34] <PetefromTn_> he talks about the build construction at some point on one of the associated videos
[22:08:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah thats a stout little guy
[22:09:14] <PetefromTn_> travels kinda suck tho 14x8x10
[22:34:36] <furrywolf> urgh. I need to build a very-off-topic mechanism that converts rotary motion to linear motion, and find a suitable gearmotor for same...
[22:37:19] <furrywolf> my back and neck hurts too much
[22:38:55] * zeeshan punches back into standard position
[22:39:11] * zeeshan implements pid on rotary to linear motion mechanism for furry
[22:40:16] <furrywolf> yay!
[22:42:33] <furrywolf> I need about a 6" stroke and 1000ipm.
[22:47:34] <furrywolf> what do I search ebay for to find actual linear motors?
[22:55:53] <Jymmm> linear acuators?
[22:56:19] <furrywolf> no. linear actuators are very slow gear-driven devices.
[22:56:34] <furrywolf> I want linear motors. the type that are like a stepper motor unrolled flat...
[23:01:52] <furrywolf> meh, all too expensive.
[23:01:56] * furrywolf wants to spend $20, not $500.
[23:03:56] <furrywolf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Linear-Servo-Motors-Magnetic-Rail-Assembly-1-ea-9-9-16-1-ea-6-3-4-/381307879779 like those
[23:25:29] <zeeshan> i like the at warning label
[23:25:31] <zeeshan> you know it's good shit
[23:25:37] <zeeshan> when they gotta warn you about the speed haha
[23:25:49] <furrywolf> I need about 1000ipm, so...
[23:25:59] <zeeshan> you can do that with a screw
[23:26:00] <zeeshan> no prob!
[23:26:18] <zeeshan> why get complex :P
[23:26:29] <furrywolf> faster would be even better. :P
[23:27:29] <zeeshan> do you need precision?
[23:27:35] <zeeshan> if not i'd use a triple start screw
[23:27:38] <zeeshan> and call it a day
[23:27:49] <zeeshan> you can prolly hit 4000 ipm no prob
[23:27:49] <furrywolf> no
[23:28:30] <Jymmm> air piston
[23:28:44] <furrywolf> the efficiency of air systems is very poor
[23:28:48] <zeeshan> my understanding of linear servo motors is you use them in applications where you need precision, ability to move heavy loads/deal with cutting forces, and speed
[23:29:46] <furrywolf> I don't need precision or heavy loads
[23:30:12] <furrywolf> I do want reasonably compact, and not needing to assemble as many parts as I'd need to fab for an adjustable crank system on a gearmotor...
[23:30:18] <zeeshan> air piston then
[23:30:23] <zeeshan> but you'd need a fancy proportional valve
[23:30:25] <zeeshan> to get position control
[23:30:53] <furrywolf> air systems are VERY inefficient, especially for reciprocating action. and a little too imprecise.
[23:31:02] <zeeshan> oh sorry i forgot
[23:31:04] <zeeshan> rotary to linear
[23:31:38] <furrywolf> I was considering a linear motor as an alternative, but they're too expensive.
[23:34:02] <zeeshan> lol
[23:34:06] <zeeshan> found my note
[23:34:15] <zeeshan> yaskawa linear servo motor speeds possibility:
[23:34:17] <zeeshan> 12,000 ipm
[23:34:18] <furrywolf> is your note a C Sharp?
[23:34:20] <furrywolf> :P
[23:34:39] <zeeshan> :D
[23:34:46] <zeeshan> dude im still implmenting that crap in my code
[23:35:02] <zeeshan> im confused at the part where im about to "send a command" for the solenoid to stay open
[23:35:05] <zeeshan> i was planning to do :
[23:35:15] <zeeshan> "turn on solenoid" ; wait correction amount ; turn off solenoid
[23:35:23] <zeeshan> but if i do that, i actually and delaying the control loop
[23:35:25] <zeeshan> which is not a good idea
[23:35:44] <furrywolf> timers, either event-driven or polled...
[23:35:51] <zeeshan> i was gonna run another thread
[23:35:56] <zeeshan> for both the solenoids
[23:36:11] <furrywolf> easiest way is every time through your main loop, check to see if sufficient time has passed, and if so, turn off solenoid.
[23:36:25] <zeeshan> but that limits me to intervals
[23:36:34] <zeeshan> of my main loop
[23:36:41] <zeeshan> (i've set it to 70ms)
[23:36:44] <furrywolf> linuxcnc can run at a 15usec interval. so can you. :P
[23:36:54] <zeeshan> yes im using shitty as c#
[23:37:01] <zeeshan> garbage !!!
[23:37:13] <zeeshan> i wish mesa had frigging a proper adc
[23:37:15] <zeeshan> i would be using this garbage
[23:37:46] <zeeshan> ps. i hate programming
[23:38:28] <furrywolf> LOL! checking the local news... big color photo of the local courthouse/county office building watering their lawn excessively with water running off into the street... this being the same people saying you're not allowed to water your lawn at all on mondays because of the drought, not allowed to have any runoff, etc.
[23:38:44] <zeeshan> nice
[23:40:05] <furrywolf> http://lostcoastoutpost.com/media/cache/c4/e1/c4e12fea80bcb5149e079919859eb78e.jpg "No watering landscapes or grass on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Fridays." "No runoff when irrigating with potable water." "No watering within 24 hours of measurable rainfall"
[23:40:16] <zeeshan> ticket em
[23:40:23] <furrywolf> Good to know that, as always, the government is exempt from its own laws.
[23:40:41] <zeeshan> halp meeeeeeeee
[23:41:31] <furrywolf> with?
[23:42:53] <zeeshan> say turn on time is 100 ms , and i start a thread to turn on solenoid for 100ms which runs in background, but since the control loop cycle time is 70ms, there is a possibility that after the next iteration, it might ask it to shut the solenoid off completely
[23:43:01] <zeeshan> but the solenoid will run for an extra 20 ms before shutting off
[23:43:04] <zeeshan> thats what im confused about
[23:43:55] <zeeshan> it's almost like i need to keep track of the turn on time
[23:43:58] <furrywolf> "The victim again told the man to leave, at which point the suspect raised the machete over his head and began to advance on the victim, from about 10 yards away. As the suspect did so, he threatened to kill the victim. At the time, the victim was lawfully carrying a handgun. In response to the suspect’s physical and verbal threats to kill the victim, he drew and discharged two rounds at the suspect as he was advancing toward the victi"
[23:44:03] <furrywolf> yay 2nd ammendment. :)
[23:45:28] <zeeshan> never bring a knife to a gun fight
[23:45:28] <zeeshan> :)
[23:46:16] <furrywolf> you could have another thread that sleeps the desired time, you could keep track of the turn-on time and poll to see when it's reached, you could use real-time kernel features like linuxcnc does...
[23:46:38] <zeeshan> this aint a rtos
[23:46:38] <zeeshan> =/
[23:46:46] <zeeshan> i never put a rtos cause i was like it'll be a slow cycle
[23:46:52] <zeeshan> not like linuxcnc which is in the us range
[23:48:13] <zeeshan> gonna eat something
[23:48:14] <zeeshan> starving!
[23:48:24] <furrywolf> and I'm about to head to bed.
[23:48:30] <furrywolf> you should be in bed too, not eating. :P