#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-06-21

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[00:00:11] <ffurrywol> I still haven't found a project where I need a couple feet of low-precision actuation
[00:06:38] <ffurrywol> it fills an odd niche... it's not precise, it's not powerful, it's not fast,...
[00:07:26] <ffurrywol> applications where smooth movement with a controllable mechanical force limit that don't need precision or high speed aren't all that common.
[00:08:40] <ffurrywol> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[02:08:10] <Deejay> moin
[02:14:52] <miek123> hmm, new battlebots show apparently
[02:15:10] <miek123> i think they need some sort of dronewars show, that would be neat
[02:24:07] <XXCoder> linuxcnc wars
[05:48:49] <Jymmm> Yo have NO IDEA on how much space drill presses can take and how heavy they are till you have to move them!
[05:49:02] <XXCoder> lol
[05:49:17] <Jymmm> all the heavy shit is off the ground and on the racks! WOOHOO
[05:50:16] <Jymmm> I had to remove the heads just to get them to fit on the shelves
[05:51:04] <MrSunshine> is there some castable resin that could be used to fill cracks etc in a benchtop to make a solid hard surface out of it ?
[05:51:18] <MrSunshine> that wont scratch easy =)
[05:51:24] <Jymmm> devcon
[05:52:08] <Jymmm> miek123: http://www.amazon.com/Devcon-31345-Ton-Clear-Epoxy/dp/B0006O8QQ0
[05:52:45] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: http://www.amazon.com/Devcon-31345-Ton-Clear-Epoxy/dp/B0006O8QQ0
[05:54:41] <MrSunshine> hmm =)
[05:55:01] <MrSunshine> is epoxy food safe ?
[05:55:37] <Jymmm> you said benchtop, not butcher block
[05:56:19] <MrSunshine> true .. but i usaly place food etc on the bench .. i do not cut on it but =)
[05:56:36] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: most havea counter top in their kitchen
[06:00:00] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: Food Grade Epoxy http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPOXY-RESIN-FOOD-SAFE-FDA-COMPLIANT-VERY-CLEAR-HIGH-IMPACT-COATING-24-OZ-KIT-/310123985135
[06:00:47] <MrSunshine> cool =)
[06:04:19] <Jymmm> MrSunshine: Always best to mix by weight.
[06:21:01] <CaptHindsight> what makes an epoxy food grade? Is it edible?
[06:25:19] <archivist> tastes of mint
[06:26:13] <choonway> if i am not wrong, food grade means that it must not leach any prohibited chemicals, withstand microwaving, and also be able to withstand sterilization by hydrogen peroxide
[06:27:54] <CaptHindsight> that depends on how complete the polymerization is and the purity of the components
[06:28:26] <CaptHindsight> food grade sounds like a made up classification
[06:29:01] <choonway> no it's not. it's used alot in the food making industry
[06:29:38] <choonway> apparently they have to subject their equipment for hydrogen peroxide wash now and then
[06:29:48] <choonway> stainless steel is the material of choice though
[06:30:22] <CaptHindsight> FDA CFR 175
[06:31:53] <CaptHindsight> INDIRECT FOOD ADDITIVES: ADHESIVES AND COMPONENTS OF COATINGS becomes translated to "food grade"
[06:34:42] <choonway> you could use chocolate as and adhesive...
[06:35:26] <CaptHindsight> or the coatings that McDonalds uses for what they call food
[06:35:40] <CaptHindsight> coatings/sauce/condiments
[06:35:41] <choonway> or egg white?
[07:40:11] <jthornton> Tom_itx, you up yet?
[08:52:27] <Tom_itx> jthornton?
[09:13:41] <jthornton> Tom_itx, nevermind
[09:14:36] <Tom_itx> you get static ip working?
[10:49:28] <jthornton> I almost got started but had to leave... now it's nap time
[11:09:37] <furrywolf> yay, put my pioneer speaker back together, works. hopefully the crap cold solder joints don't fail too soon. I hate cutting dust caps.
[11:26:32] <furrywolf> hrmm, someone is quite intently attempting to brute-force my linode's root password over ssh... iptables -j DROP time.
[11:28:41] <furrywolf> I need a script that blocks any ip attempting to ssh in as root, because I never do that.
[11:29:36] <furrywolf> I have "PermitRootLogin no", so they won't succeed, but simply dropping all traffic from any IP that tries would be best.
[11:37:03] <furrywolf> yay, now my auth.log isn't growing stupidly fast.
[13:09:55] <robinsz> so, I know I asked this before, but, remind me ... I need to code up a stop command for a router
[13:10:06] <robinsz> sorry, pause
[13:10:33] <robinsz> so I need to be able to press the pause button, have it retract the spindle then stop the spindle
[13:10:54] <robinsz> when I press go again, spin up the spindle, lower it back down and continue
[13:11:25] <PetefromTn_> why?
[13:11:30] <robinsz> its a router
[13:12:05] <PetefromTn_> and
[13:12:12] <robinsz> thats what routers do when you press the pause
[13:12:42] <robinsz> you cant just stop the motion and let the spindle spin down
[13:13:00] <robinsz> well, you could, but you would need a large stock of fire extinguisers
[13:13:40] <robinsz> does pressing pause even stop the spindle normally?
[13:13:46] * robinsz looks unsure
[13:13:48] <PetefromTn_> no
[13:13:57] <robinsz> there you go then, instant fire
[13:19:51] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately this is one of those jog while paused things most likely and is not as simple as it sounds.
[13:20:37] <PetefromTn_> there were a few guys working on some add ons that made this possible sort of but it was not automatic Z up as you are asking about.
[13:22:33] <PetefromTn_> personally on my VMC I leave my MPG setup in .01 increments and leave it on Z which is usually where it was upon touchoff anyways so when I hit stop I can typically just MPG up out of the work rather quickly. Then you can do a run from selected line to restart carefully.
[13:24:13] <robinsz> unfortunately, thats kinda useless on a router, as the idiot minding the router has no clue about any of that kinda thing, they know how to press the pause button if something "looks wrong" like a sticky up part, clear the problem and press go again
[13:24:27] <robinsz> all commercial routers work this way
[13:24:52] <malcom2073_> I've found that you can't really hand a linuxcnc system to someone who is vaugly familiar with cnc and expect things to work heh
[13:25:22] <SpeedEvil> robinsz: Seperate little per-workpiece clamps, and if it goes wrong, leave it to burn to ash?
[13:25:27] <SpeedEvil> then just replace
[13:25:37] <robinsz> nope, we cut full 8x4 sheets
[13:26:00] <robinsz> and the cutters are between 60 and 120 each
[13:26:22] <SpeedEvil> What're you making?
[13:26:31] <robinsz> speaker cabinets
[13:26:33] <SpeedEvil> Cabinets and stuff?
[13:26:35] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:26:47] <robinsz> solid tungsten compression cutters
[13:26:59] <robinsz> 18mm birch ply, single pass
[13:27:21] <robinsz> well, 17mm pass then a 1.5mm pass
[13:28:36] <robinsz> the problem is not burning the wood per se, its 30 a sheet
[13:28:42] <robinsz> its the cutter damage
[13:28:57] <robinsz> and the sparks going into the dust extractor and setting it on fire
[13:29:53] <robinsz> so retract the Z and stop the spindle is a must have
[13:30:20] <PetefromTn_> not sure what the difference is really
[13:30:28] <SpeedEvil> I assume if you just stop the spindle it doesn't work
[13:30:40] <SpeedEvil> as the operator then has to do that?
[13:30:46] <robinsz> not normally
[13:30:48] <PetefromTn_> if you have to retract the Z and stop the motor you will be having to do basically the same thing to restart the spindle
[13:30:54] <robinsz> yes
[13:31:03] <robinsz> thats what our last two machines did
[13:31:14] <robinsz> and every commercial router I have ever seen
[13:32:11] <robinsz> trust me, a 12mm cutter in 18mm ply at 24,000 rpm does not last many seconds if you stop the motion
[13:32:13] <furrywolf> I have no idea how to implement that, but it doesn't sound like it should be hard...
[13:32:39] <furrywolf> if it is hard, something needs design improvements. :)
[13:32:50] <PetefromTn_> apparently it's harder than it would seem because run while paused and spindle on and off during programs is not supported yet.
[13:33:03] <PetefromTn_> jog rather
[13:33:14] <robinsz> spindle needs to be off for operator safety
[13:34:04] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNuu_D4X_EM This is what Michael Haberler was working on not sure how far it went and there was other folks working on it.
[13:35:14] <malcom2073_> He's moved over to machinekit, and it looks like it's implemented and working
[13:35:20] <PetefromTn_> even that would require some care on the operators part
[13:36:06] <robinsz> yeah, I wouldnt really need access to Z jog
[13:36:21] <robinsz> Z is retracted and stays retracted
[13:36:54] <PetefromTn_> I'm not a developer and generally barely have the skills to setup one of these machines but I still don't understand the reasoning behind splitting off into different directions for linuxCNC and Mahcinekit...
[13:36:54] <robinsz> being able to move X and Y would be kinda useful , but not really a problem if you cant
[13:36:55] <pcw_home> yeah its not simple for all use cases, might not be too bad for a router
[13:37:28] <SpeedEvil> Is there a 'paused' output electrically possible? I wonder if it could be done entirely out of linuxcnc. If paused, the motor is killed, and Z retracted.
[13:37:38] <PetefromTn_> Gotta head to the store. BBL
[13:37:41] <SpeedEvil> Do you actuyally want pause, or 'emergency stop' and junk the sheet?
[13:37:47] <robinsz> pause
[13:38:04] <robinsz> sort out some problem, or go to lunch or whatever
[13:38:17] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:39:21] <pcw_home> auto Z retract would certainly destroy the work and tool in some circumstances
[13:40:08] <varesa> tried to use my mill, stepper drives too shit to even cut a sheet of plastic. Then gave +X instead of +Z and broke the tool
[13:40:09] <furrywolf> yes, like when zee was using a keyway cutter to undercut a ring around a part... if you just moved z up, crunch.
[13:40:11] <robinsz> if using slot cutters yes
[13:40:13] <varesa> just my typical luck :)
[13:40:18] <robinsz> but I dont use any of those
[13:40:37] <robinsz> where as pausing without retract will destroy the tool every time on a big routre
[13:40:50] <pcw_home> its probably doable using the moveoff comp
[13:41:06] <robinsz> I had a discussion on this before
[13:41:16] <robinsz> and then failed to remember the instructions
[13:42:21] <pcw_home> ideally motion would have an uptream-tap for inserting offsets such they they obey the motion constraints
[13:43:52] <pcw_home> (so it does not all have to be done in HAL which means working behind motions back and lying to motion to keep it happy)
[13:45:55] <robinsz> im not sure any of this makes any sense yet
[13:46:08] <robinsz> ISTR someone saying 2.7 had support for it
[13:48:02] <robinsz> I guess the hard part is turning off G54 or whatever to do the retract, and turning it back on to make it go down again?
[13:48:40] <robinsz> hmm?
[13:52:14] <robinsz> it says: 2.7: add moveoff, a simple jog-while-paused implementation
[13:53:54] * robinsz laughs
[13:54:11] <robinsz> >> gmoccapy: introduced frensh translation
[13:54:18] <robinsz> frensh?
[13:55:40] <furrywolf> frensh is speekin after zee wine!
[14:01:53] <furrywolf> bbl, off to storage unit to drop off stuff
[14:06:07] <robinsz> what is the current status of 7i80 support?
[14:07:17] <pcw_home> supported in 2.7
[14:10:40] <robinsz> k, interesting
[14:12:02] <robinsz> I have a 5i25/7i77 on the way, but an enternet solution sounds interesting
[14:23:32] <JSSkangas> Anyone who knows litle about kinematics
[14:23:35] <JSSkangas> ?
[14:24:27] <JSSkangas> i have done kinematics for 5 axis table-table machine
[14:26:27] <JSSkangas> I made M-codes to activate and deactivate it, but if I have moved rotary axis before applying TCP
[14:26:59] <JSSkangas> coordinates jumps and linuxcnc will give following error.
[14:27:54] <JSSkangas> any ideas how could I make this better?
[14:29:36] <JSSkangas> I was thinking that in time of activating TCP, current place would be calculated before applying transformation.
[14:30:48] <JSSkangas> And current new coordinate would be calculated to current position.
[14:31:12] <JSSkangas> same this when deactivating TCP
[14:31:29] <JSSkangas> Any other ideas?
[15:06:32] <furrywolf> "True Four Ohm Technology - speaker's 2 ohm impedance combines with OEM speaker wire impedance for a 4 ohm load" ... wtflol?
[15:14:40] <XXCoder> lower the better I guess
[15:25:27] <pcw_home> but not less than 0 :-)
[15:29:01] <XXCoder> negative ohm is possible but with some cheating
[15:29:08] <XXCoder> it uses power
[15:30:39] <pcw_home> Sure but normally rather undesirable from a stability standpoint
[15:30:57] <XXCoder> interesting
[15:32:15] <pcw_home> (gas discharges typically have negative resistance, the higher the current, the lower the voltage across the arc)
[15:34:23] <pcw_home> also tunnel diodes, unijunction transistors, 4 layer diodes etc (all used for oscillators)
[15:48:37] <CaptHindsight> 1V across a -1 ohm resistor is?
[15:50:26] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vwIfB74Tw&feature=em-subs_digest
[15:50:33] <XXCoder> how does it sound like?
[15:50:39] <XXCoder> thats not something I can tell lol
[15:52:37] <Deejay> gn8
[16:33:27] <XXCoder> man I'm fan of myfoldboy youtube channek
[16:34:45] <XXCoder> *myfordboy
[16:36:06] <XXCoder> any of you into metal casting?
[16:38:30] <MrSunshine> i do some casting from time to time =)
[16:38:45] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6YlhAL89cA
[16:38:52] <XXCoder> hes making brass wheel
[16:39:14] <MrSunshine> yeah, subscribing already =)
[16:39:30] <XXCoder> he has whole series of making stirling fan
[16:39:46] <XXCoder> everything was made, casting, milling, so opn
[16:40:40] <XXCoder> see the kiln? he made it himself and videoed each step
[16:43:10] <anarchos> i'd like to try lost foam casting aluminum sometime
[16:43:38] <XXCoder> one thing I love is hes quite honest. he just showed the failed cast
[16:43:56] <SpeedEvil> I want to do lost politician casting.
[16:44:15] <XXCoder> anarchos: yea honestly I doubt I will do casting though, I love idea but dont think I can do it
[16:44:26] <XXCoder> I probably will do pewler though, easy one
[16:44:29] <anarchos> i just dont have the space for anything :P
[16:44:38] <anarchos> my shop is literally a walk in closet
[16:44:41] <XXCoder> pewler you can use wood cast
[16:45:44] <XXCoder> er pewter
[16:47:14] <anarchos> i think my next endeavour will be messing with epoxy concrete, i think
[16:47:27] <XXCoder> thats other thing I want to try.
[16:47:29] <anarchos> that seems like something i can do on a small scale without the need for a lot of room for stuff
[16:47:58] <anarchos> i was thinking of attempting to make a 4" vise bed to start out with
[16:48:30] <MrSunshine> hmm epoxy granite .. how do you make dead flat surfaces? cast in steel plates etc and surface grind them later? .. or mill them
[16:48:44] <anarchos> my plan was to cast on top of a surface plate
[16:48:56] <XXCoder> I wondered about that MrSunshine
[16:49:11] <XXCoder> though I dont plan to make surfaces or anything, just maybe statues or something
[16:49:14] <anarchos> with pre-ground cast iron bar as a sliding surface
[16:49:36] <XXCoder> geez pewter so soft hes using wood lathe
[16:49:37] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVQmjnKLwc4
[16:50:25] <syyl_> that woodlathe looks a lot sturdier than most of the homeshop lathes
[16:50:59] <MrSunshine> would be neat to make my engraving machine in expoxy granite but its kinda final .. the design has to be very good from the start =)
[16:51:24] <XXCoder> unless you has a machine thats able to mill epoxy granite
[16:51:26] <syyl_> you still can drill holes with the rotary hammerdill ;)
[16:52:12] <XXCoder> mr sun, I did read about one guy who had machine that needed to be heavier and strudier, so he filled hollow spaces with epoxy granite.
[16:53:16] <MrSunshine> XXCoder: yeah seen something before on the net on that
[16:54:06] <MrSunshine> but im going to build a engraving machine from scratch .. so options are .. cast and milled details or solid epoxy granite cast of the frame :P
[16:54:16] <MrSunshine> or .. maybe a 4 part cast design rather
[16:54:17] <XXCoder> what about 8020
[16:54:45] <MrSunshine> 8020 ?
[16:54:56] <XXCoder> 8020 beams
[16:55:05] <XXCoder> easy to build pretty accurate frame
[16:55:44] <MrSunshine> no frekkin lego aluminium
[16:55:45] <MrSunshine> =)
[16:55:52] <XXCoder> lol ok
[16:56:37] <MrSunshine> got a cnc to make accurate patterns and ability to cast like 3 - 4 liters of alu at a go
[16:56:42] <XXCoder> literal lego aluminium https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr1kZ5RN42s lol
[16:59:28] <MrSunshine> built enough lego with my router being almost lego .. bolts holding steel profiles together .. its a PITA when you have to remove something to change something . .to get everything aligned agian =)
[17:00:26] <MrSunshine> i guess that will be a problem with anything but learned my lessons here and there =)
[17:00:45] <XXCoder> yeah
[17:00:54] <XXCoder> I gonna complete my cnc router lol
[17:01:14] <XXCoder> got motor mounts to my uncle, he has lathe/mill so he can mill slot on it so it fits my machine
[17:01:16] <MrSunshine> atleast the machine is bringing in some money now! =)
[17:01:42] <MrSunshine> https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t35.0-12/11649193_10153388960543648_1563971921_o.jpg?oh=9e520d2fafe8c8af6f706c513872ff83&oe=558995F7 if the link works .. todays thingie =)
[17:01:56] <MrSunshine> need to fix up the color diff due to the frekkin wood there tho :P
[17:02:17] <XXCoder> that is cool
[17:02:29] <XXCoder> its in my plans to make some cool deaf artwork
[17:06:39] <MrSunshine> i wonder how hard it would be to get my exes father get me good price on cast iron castings tho .. he works at a huge steel foundry .. tho he is in the wrong department :P
[17:06:59] <MrSunshine> shouldnt be too expensive if i make the patterns
[17:10:30] <XXCoder> good question
[17:22:59] <MrSunshine> ordenary concrete swells/shrinks alot with temperature and humidity right ?
[17:23:24] <XXCoder> probably? cant honestly answer
[17:23:25] <anarchos> hmmm
[17:23:32] <XXCoder> epoxy granite dont do as much
[17:23:50] <anarchos> i just sent an email to a place renting out "studio space" for artists/"creators"
[17:25:05] <anarchos> $350/mo for 80 sq feet, but comes with a community kiln and casting area. I have a feeling it
[17:25:17] <anarchos> it's more geared towards people making jewelry and stuff like that
[17:25:57] <anarchos> but, i could fit a lot into a 9x9' area if i was smart about it :P
[17:28:59] <MrSunshine> does it has to be a castable resin in epoxy granite ?
[17:29:08] <MrSunshine> as you got so much stone and stuff in im thinking =)
[17:29:36] <XXCoder> mr theres this nice guide
[17:30:47] <XXCoder> cant find i
[17:31:04] <XXCoder> he used local store rotten granite and stuff and made nice epoxy granite
[17:31:33] <furrywolf> should be able to mill epoxy granite with diamond or with abrasives...
[17:31:59] <XXCoder> I guess use grinder for very flat surface for Surface
[17:35:50] <MrSunshine> hmm, would it be possible to somehow send a message over internet when linuxcnc is done with the program? =)
[17:36:07] <XXCoder> wild guess, scripts
[17:36:10] <MrSunshine> these 3d routings take a huge load of time .. =)
[17:36:13] <MrSunshine> yeah .. but how
[17:36:24] <XXCoder> unfortunately that is where my help ends. sorry lol
[17:36:41] <MrSunshine> :P
[17:45:11] <furrywolf> too bad the non-rigidness in my machine is in the design, not the casting weights. heh.
[17:46:05] <XXCoder> make new machine with that machine
[17:53:01] <furrywolf> looking at some pages online, people spend WAY too much money adding epoxy filler to their mills... the west system stuff seems popular, and I have a couple quarts of it... it's $100+ a quart!
[17:53:28] <XXCoder> yeah is there any bulk and cheap epoxy? lol
[17:54:39] <furrywolf> I wonder if you could build a machine out of layers of countertop bonded together? you can get countertop chunks cheap, cut/mill them to shape, stack them...
[17:55:09] <XXCoder> maybe?
[17:56:02] <furrywolf> yes, I already knew the answer was "maybe".
[17:56:14] * furrywolf was looking for better answers. :P
[17:56:19] <anarchos> after reading the 600 page thread on cnczone.com, the conclusion is to use silicon carbine abbrassive powders in about 5 or 6 different sizes as aggregate
[17:56:33] <XXCoder> fur yeah your idea is new
[17:56:42] <XXCoder> so maybe is probably only answer you can get
[17:58:07] <furrywolf> cnczone often concludes "spend insane amounts of money".
[17:58:26] <XXCoder> heck you can even use epoxy thin coating to bond those countertaps together
[17:58:53] <XXCoder> guess need to roughen up to be epoxied surfaces
[17:58:56] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: It's a packing problem
[17:59:40] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: With appropriate grades of SiC powder - or any rigidly graded powder - you can greatly reduce the fraction of epoxy
[17:59:57] <SpeedEvil> one 'grit' - and you're down at 70% or so solids.
[18:00:09] <furrywolf> yes, I know it's a packing problem. I also know silicon carbide is much more expensive than sand and other general-purpose aggregates, to the point where the saved epoxy and increased rigidness with smaller parts ends up costing much more than using cheap aggregate and slightly larger parts. :P
[18:00:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:00:19] <anarchos> yes, they get down to about 7-10% epoxy
[18:00:29] <SpeedEvil> I'd go with sand and polyester resin, and vacuum impregnation
[18:00:33] <SpeedEvil> Or - possibly - pitch
[18:00:39] <XXCoder> furrywolf: I did read about one guy who used rotten granite and it seemed good
[18:00:47] <XXCoder> he cleaned it a lot and sorted em into lots
[18:00:49] <SpeedEvil> Pitch is damn cheap, and de-stresses itself and is removable
[18:00:51] <XXCoder> reused everuthing
[18:01:09] <SpeedEvil> Also, yes, your local builders merchant
[18:01:25] <SpeedEvil> very fine sand + small rocks + big rocks
[18:01:32] <anarchos> you can get SiC for about $7/lbs on amazon, I'd assume a lot cheaper in bulk
[18:01:41] <anarchos> but even at say $3/lbs, that's a lot
[18:02:10] <furrywolf> ok, now make a 500lb machine base... :P
[18:02:11] <SpeedEvil> Polyester resin is a _lot_ cheaper - and should work just fine
[18:02:27] <SpeedEvil> But - for a machine base - I'd wonder why not just use concrete
[18:02:40] <anarchos> vibration damping is the big one
[18:02:45] <SpeedEvil> True
[18:03:04] <SpeedEvil> Pitch seems a reasonable structural addition.
[18:03:15] <SpeedEvil> AKA roofing tar
[18:03:17] <furrywolf> pitch is a liquid.
[18:03:31] <anarchos> they say a good epoxy "granite" base will have 8-10x more vibration dampening than cast iron
[18:03:33] <SpeedEvil> yes - it's not structural.
[18:03:48] <anarchos> thjat's why people want it so much...not to be cheaper than cast iron per se, but to be better
[18:03:57] <SpeedEvil> But - at 25C - it's damn near solid.
[18:04:06] <SpeedEvil> If your shop hits 50C in the summer - then no
[18:04:27] <SpeedEvil> And if you're relying on it structurally, rather than simply damping - again no
[18:04:51] <anarchos> that's why i think a small vise is going to be a great way to get started for fairly cheap
[18:05:06] <anarchos> and it might actually turn out pretty good to use
[18:05:28] * furrywolf notes a 100lb bag of sand is the same cost as a 1lb bag of SiC.
[18:05:47] <XXCoder> probably can clean sand
[18:05:54] <XXCoder> using filters so obn
[18:05:59] <SpeedEvil> I'm trying to work out fun things to do with recycled glass grit/globs
[18:06:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECOSTRIP-FINE-GLASS-GRIT-BLAST-CLEANING-ABRASIVE-BLASTING-SAND-BLASTING-25-KGS-/360414601656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53ea6261b8
[18:06:15] <furrywolf> you really need a cheap epoxy too... with the $100+/quart stuff I see people using, you can buy a ready-to-run machine cheaper than making one.
[18:06:52] <SpeedEvil> Even if it is $100/10 quarts of machine
[18:07:19] <anarchos> you don't need much epoxy, really...7-10% by weight
[18:07:29] <anarchos> if using graded aggregate
[18:08:01] <furrywolf> so a 1000lb machine needs 100lbs of epoxy... at $75/lb...
[18:08:15] <anarchos> that seems pretty cheap to me :P
[18:08:19] <anarchos> err, nm
[18:08:31] <anarchos> $75/lbs! i thought you meant $75 per 1000lbs machine
[18:09:08] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/220kg-Barrel-General-Purpose-Resin-RGPE30_220.html
[18:10:15] <furrywolf> amazon has the west system stuff for only $60/qt...
[18:10:32] <furrywolf> that's $60 per quart. which is about 1.5 lbs. so $40/lb...
[18:12:02] * furrywolf wonders how a wood glue+sand machine would work. :P
[18:12:24] <SpeedEvil> A robot that you could throw a ton of rock under, it would determine the shape of each bit, and pack it together would be fun
[18:12:48] <furrywolf> too slow to be useful
[18:12:54] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: depends.
[18:12:57] <furrywolf> much easier to shape the rocks. :P
[18:13:07] <SpeedEvil> For gravel, sure
[18:13:39] <XXCoder> found site $38/gal
[18:13:43] <anarchos> i can't find the post atm in the actual epoxy granite thread, but http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/64911-epoxy-granite
[18:13:48] <XXCoder> http://www.epoxyoutlet.com/discount.html
[18:13:56] <anarchos> 2nd post is by the guy who did most of the 'research' in the cnczone thread
[18:14:14] <anarchos> and that's his final recipe before giving up :P
[18:16:21] <furrywolf> lol
[18:16:54] <furrywolf> did he do any strength tests?
[18:17:02] <anarchos> yea
[18:17:38] <anarchos> well not him so much, he was basically doing most of the theoretical research, finding out predicted optimal sizes and stuff
[18:17:48] <anarchos> and others actually making stuff based on his recipees
[18:17:49] <furrywolf> hrmm, what's that corn-based plastic north koreans make clothes out of? wonder how that'd work as resin...
[18:18:08] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Polyester resins are enormously cheaper.
[18:18:15] <SpeedEvil> I suspect they would work adequately.
[18:18:32] <SpeedEvil> Is this for structural, or simply damping?
[18:19:08] <anarchos> both
[18:19:46] <anarchos> that was the big thing about all the testing..finding something that would work for both compressive and tensile strength
[18:19:54] <anarchos> while maintaining the vibration dampening
[18:21:56] <anarchos> my big question for my project is...do i use pre-ground iron stock as my slides, or just embed regular cast iron and have it ground later?
[18:22:33] <anarchos> pre-ground would be idea, but im concerned that i need to weld some "anchors" to it, and it will warp from the heat, negating having it pre ground
[18:23:30] <SpeedEvil> Why weld, not drill and tap?
[18:23:44] <furrywolf> I would worry you can't mould it in place square enough, so it should be machined later to be square
[18:23:58] <anarchos> i was thinking of casting on a surface plate
[18:24:27] <anarchos> SpeedEvil: that could work as well
[18:26:11] <anarchos> it would be nice to have a 'finished' part pop out of the mould rather than having to have it finished later...as i live in the middle of no where and finding someone with a surface grinder might be tough.
[18:26:20] <furrywolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinylon I was wrong, not made from corn.
[18:31:27] <XXCoder> anarchos: if cant find that guy
[18:31:29] <XXCoder> be that guy
[18:31:38] <XXCoder> there might be demend lol
[18:37:57] <PetefromTn_> Well Capt I went looking for some good containers for the Anodizing process today....
[18:38:17] <PetefromTn_> They didn't really have squat at the local big box stores
[18:38:47] <PetefromTn_> then I realized that I had seen a bunch of guys videos on youtube using igloo or coleman coolers for it.
[18:39:15] <PetefromTn_> There are a bunch of those for reasonable prices around and I wanted to get your thoughts on using them for this before I grabbed a bunch of them..
[18:39:42] <XXCoder> test with cheap one
[18:39:46] <XXCoder> or your old one
[18:39:56] <XXCoder> if it works, buy bunch and replace your home one too
[18:40:51] <PetefromTn_> they had a bunch of nice sized white colemans on sale at wally world I almost bought today.
[18:41:03] <PetefromTn_> they look very sturdy and of course are insulated
[18:41:28] <PetefromTn_> dunno what they are made from but the consensus was to use PE or PP plastic containers
[18:41:56] <PetefromTn_> tried to read the labels and never saw the materials listed just the capacities and features etc.
[18:42:27] <furrywolf> I always figured they were ABS, but I've never checked...
[18:42:36] <XXCoder> yeah best way just buy one in least and test
[18:42:44] <XXCoder> no need to buy lots then oh oops no worky
[18:49:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah I just wanted to get this going and find something suitable. I have a couple large coolers that we use for camping here but I am loathe to use them for this as we use them all the time.
[18:49:37] <furrywolf> go to yard sales and thrift stores...
[18:51:44] <XXCoder> or used stuff store
[18:52:01] <XXCoder> or thrift like fur said lol
[19:05:44] <MrHindsight> PetefromTn_: the plastic cooler work, they insulate as well, so you have to be cautious of the anodize "tank" getting too warm
[19:06:19] <MrHindsight> the lids are also nice since they limit evaporation
[19:07:42] <MrHindsight> the cooler for anodize needs to be able to hold up to the sulfuric acid
[19:09:17] <PetefromTn_> sure and that is what I am concerned about
[19:09:42] <MrHindsight> http://www.calpaclab.com/chemical-compatibility-charts/
[19:09:43] <PetefromTn_> watching a caswell plating video on youtube they just use a bunch of clean 5 gallon buckets for everything
[19:10:20] <PetefromTn_> the coolers seemed like a good cheap source for a decently solid stable container that again is insulated
[19:10:35] <MrHindsight> they work as well, circular is just an awkward shape for some parts
[19:10:45] <PetefromTn_> that caswell plating video seems like it has a lot of unnecessary stuff in it but maybe I am wrong
[19:10:50] <PetefromTn_> sure
[19:10:57] <MrHindsight> I forget what size and shape your parts are
[19:10:57] <PetefromTn_> that is why I kinda like the cooler idea
[19:11:19] <PetefromTn_> most are long rectangular parts that are no more than 10 inches or so
[19:11:53] <PetefromTn_> but it would be nice to be able to do larger parts later on which is another reason I liked the cooler idea. A medium sized cooler should hold a rather large part easily
[19:14:20] <MrHindsight> http://www.igloocoolers.com/FAQs#q4 igloo says the inside liner is polypropylene
[19:14:37] <PetefromTn_> oh excellent
[19:14:46] <PetefromTn_> so if I get igloo coolers I should be good to go.
[19:14:59] <PetefromTn_> Those ones they had at wally world looked real good
[19:15:08] <MrHindsight> the anodize bath is the important one
[19:15:13] <PetefromTn_> sure
[19:15:29] <PetefromTn_> I really want to make this thing on a rolling kart to be able to move it outside.
[19:15:37] <Tom_itx> i'd imagine they're all made from the same materials
[19:15:57] <PetefromTn_> if I get a cooler setup I can close and secure the lids and hopefully be able to roll it in and out safely
[19:16:19] <PetefromTn_> the coolers were on sale for 24 bucks or so
[19:16:41] <MrHindsight> the coleman site doesn't load for me right now
[19:16:56] <MrHindsight> check the material of the inside liner
[19:17:36] <PetefromTn_> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-28-Quart-Marine-Cooler/8187711
[19:18:22] <MrHindsight> http://www.target.com/p/igloo-island-breeze-28-quart-roller-cooler/-/A-11905897?lnk=rec|pdp|viewed_bought|pdp404h2
[19:18:48] <PetefromTn_> yeah I don't need or want the handles and wheels
[19:19:13] <PetefromTn_> my plan is to get the coolers and do it on the floor in the shop until I build a nice kart that will house everything
[19:19:21] <PetefromTn_> probably made from plywood or something
[19:20:35] <PetefromTn_> I also want to use the methods Capthindsight uses for anodizing for applying the color like splash anodizing and using an airbrush or sponging it on so hopefully the need for addition dye tanks will not be necessary
[19:21:03] <MrHindsight> I can't load the Coleman material page
[19:22:25] <MrHindsight> cookie madness
[19:24:47] <MrHindsight> and it doesn't say
[19:26:12] <MrHindsight> but HDPE is ok for anodize since it's <20% concentration and <80F
[19:26:59] <MrHindsight> http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Chemical-Splash-Impact-Goggle-91252-80025/100021545 get some of these
[19:27:46] <robinsz> anodizing is probably the easiest of all the finishing techniques
[19:27:58] <robinsz> providing you have good DI water anyway
[19:28:01] <MrHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/171779151081?lpid=82&chn=ps and gloves
[19:28:24] <MrHindsight> and wear clean gloves while handling the unsealed anodize
[19:28:31] <robinsz> yep
[19:28:46] <PetefromTn_> Oh man I have TONS of PPE stuff here
[19:28:53] <robinsz> you got resin packs?
[19:28:57] <PetefromTn_> I am always spraying paints and working with chemicals
[19:29:05] <PetefromTn_> fiberglassing etc. etc.
[19:29:37] <robinsz> PetefromTn_, you got resin packs for making the DI water?
[19:30:09] <PetefromTn_> naah I plan to just buy it
[19:30:23] <PetefromTn_> you can get it almost anywhere now
[19:30:23] <robinsz> sounds expensive
[19:30:42] <robinsz> you need a lot for rinsing etc
[19:31:35] <robinsz> we made our own pack from some 4" plastic pipe
[19:32:08] <robinsz> just added some stainless mesh to each end and stuffed it full of resin
[19:33:20] <robinsz> we must have had a 1000 litres out of it already
[19:33:54] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: would epoxy protect anything against acid you use to anodizing
[19:34:04] <XXCoder> if so, can always make something
[19:34:34] <PetefromTn_> robinsz I am not sure what you are talking about man...
[19:34:37] <PetefromTn_> BRB
[19:35:25] <robinsz> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omnipure-K5655-JJ-2-5-Inch-by-12-Inch-Deionizing-Mixed-Bed-Filter-with-1-4-Inch-/221742530540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a0e27fec
[19:35:25] <MrHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Deionization-Resin-Mixed-Color-Changing/dp/B000X92KOC
[19:35:49] <robinsz> PetefromTn_, its way cheaper to make your own DI water than to buy it
[19:35:51] <MrHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/iSpring-FD15-2-5-Inch-Refillable-De-Ionization/dp/B0077DV7J6/ref=pd_sim_60_1/186-4438048-8863443?ie=UTF8&refRID=1JXG6C7F89HKHSM6ST0G
[19:36:37] <robinsz> just make up a filter pack and fill it full of DI resin, or just buy a pre-ade one for fish tanks
[19:36:49] <robinsz> tap water in, DI water out
[19:37:30] <robinsz> I got 10lbs of spare resin, if you are in the UK
[19:37:38] <MrHindsight> http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulk-reverse-osmosis-filters-systems/reverse-osmosis-filters/di-resin.html
[19:38:23] <PetefromTn_> Wow no shit I didn't know you could do that.
[19:38:28] <PetefromTn_> thanks for the tips
[19:38:39] <PetefromTn_> robinsz Do you anodize aluminum parts?
[19:38:58] <robinsz> I have done in the past, we dont any more
[19:39:20] <XXCoder> why?
[19:39:21] <robinsz> good clean water and lots of it is key
[19:39:51] <robinsz> moved the factory to new location, not set up all the processes yet
[19:40:16] <MrHindsight> PetefromTn_is still working on getting his tanks and power supply
[19:40:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am just trying to get a GOOD setup started here.
[19:40:49] <robinsz> how big tanks?
[19:40:53] <PetefromTn_> I machine and sell a lot of aluminum parts
[19:40:57] <PetefromTn_> so it just makes sense
[19:41:19] <PetefromTn_> I posted a link to a wally world cooler that looks promising
[19:41:30] <PetefromTn_> Maybe gonna grab a couple of those
[19:41:43] <robinsz> do you have metered tap water?
[19:42:00] <robinsz> or use as much as you like?
[19:42:45] <robinsz> if you have unmetered water, just use a water-water heat exchanger
[19:43:41] <PetefromTn_> we have metered water but it is no problem I just filled my damn pool and not worried about it LOL
[19:43:51] <robinsz> heh, k
[19:44:07] <MrHindsight> PetefromTn_: Amamzon has lots of filters and resin material
[19:44:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah man apparently
[19:44:49] <PetefromTn_> I figured I would grab the coolers and some battery acid and hopefully get some of Capt's magic dyes and start playing with this
[19:45:05] <robinsz> we didnt need big tanks, we just used blackplastic water tanks, like you put in the roof
[19:45:06] <PetefromTn_> probably use my battery charger until I get the dedicated power supply
[19:45:24] <PetefromTn_> ?
[19:46:28] <robinsz> mmm ...
[19:46:49] <robinsz> you;ll not get a very deep film with 12V
[19:47:09] <robinsz> you need variable voltage, 5 to 70V will do it
[19:47:20] <robinsz> how many square inches are your parts?
[19:48:10] <robinsz> ie roughly how many square inches of surface area in total?
[19:49:52] <PetefromTn_> have not sat down to figure it out yet. Not very big really
[19:50:05] <robinsz> wait, sorry, brain fart ...
[19:50:13] <robinsz> I was thinking of plating
[19:50:20] <robinsz> 12V will be fine
[19:50:40] <robinsz> what sort of size? roughly?
[19:50:44] <PetefromTn_> I am planning to pickup one of these.... http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mastech-power-supply/mastech-hy3020d
[19:52:13] <robinsz> you basically want to start off aruond 3 amps per sqaure foot
[19:52:24] <robinsz> for the first 5 to ten minutes
[19:52:40] <robinsz> and then push it up to about 8 amps per square foot
[19:52:53] <robinsz> you get a nice hard surface that way
[19:52:59] <PetefromTn_> my parts are like this one typically...
[19:53:19] <robinsz> if you go stright in at 8 amps, you get a soft fuzzy surface
[19:53:38] <robinsz> so always start low and ramp up
[19:53:50] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/jF97fGE.jpg
[19:54:17] <robinsz> you also need more volts as the film thickness build up, so a current controlled supply helps
[19:54:20] <PetefromTn_> thats about 9 inches long, maybe 1.5 tall and 7/8 wide
[19:55:26] <robinsz> probably about 50 sq inches
[19:56:18] <robinsz> so, maybe 1.5 amps for 15 minutes
[19:56:28] <PetefromTn_> jeez is that all?
[19:56:29] <robinsz> then 4 amps for 50 minutes
[19:56:35] <robinsz> on that part yeah
[19:56:36] <PetefromTn_> oh okay
[19:56:50] <PetefromTn_> I am so stoked about seeing one in a nice black...
[19:56:59] <robinsz> pistol upper?
[19:58:07] <MrHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/263WRWAvglKW 6 years unsealed anodize
[19:58:13] <PetefromTn_> no that is a custom droop compensated scope riser for a Steyr LG110 Field Target or Benchrest precision Air rifle.... http://i.imgur.com/6TCytja.jpg
[19:58:29] <MrHindsight> sharpies on right, solvent dye on left
[19:59:05] <MrHindsight> the black is much blacker than the sharpies
[19:59:37] <robinsz> yep
[19:59:50] <robinsz> looks neat
[20:00:06] <robinsz> I'm an Anschutz guy ;)
[20:00:10] <MrHindsight> no dye bath, less problems with color
[20:00:21] <PetefromTn_> never really thought that sharpies were all that black really
[20:00:29] <PetefromTn_> Anschutz kicks ass...
[20:01:03] <robinsz> yep, I have a Match 54 action, lothar walther progressive twist barrel, in an HPS "Ultra" stock
[20:01:26] <PetefromTn_> Oh you are talking firearms..
[20:01:31] <PetefromTn_> I am a big air gun guy...
[20:01:40] <PetefromTn_> love me a good FT rifle
[20:01:55] <PetefromTn_> that picture is a Precharged Pneumatic Air rifle
[20:02:45] <robinsz> http://systemgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/D52R1411.jpg
[20:03:16] <robinsz> ^^ nice anodizing
[20:03:32] <robinsz> oh, wait, I had some REAL nice anodizing done recently ... wait q
[20:06:24] <MrHindsight> PetefromTn_: you can also add teflon to the bath before sealing as a built in surface lubricant, if that comes up
[20:08:10] <robinsz> sigh, pics must be on camera still
[20:09:32] <robinsz> MrHindsight, I think Igus do a lot of that in their soatings
[20:09:39] <robinsz> *coatings
[20:10:43] <PetefromTn_> looks great man.
[20:10:55] <PetefromTn_> I really want to try that splashing anodizing
[20:11:46] <robinsz> PetefromTn_, have a look over the rifles on http://systemgemini.com/gallery/
[20:12:28] <robinsz> PetefromTn_, all the wood on those rifles is doen on a router I built, in fact, its the front page image on linuxcnc.org
[20:13:36] <PetefromTn_> looks good man
[20:13:48] <PetefromTn_> my best friend is a big anschutz junkie
[20:13:58] <PetefromTn_> he likes .22 rimfire benchrest
[20:14:03] <robinsz> yep :)
[20:14:16] <robinsz> most of the Gemini stuff goes for prone or 3P
[20:14:22] <robinsz> olympic style
[20:14:49] <PetefromTn_> I am an airgun Field Target Competitor and have been shooting for almost 20 years now
[20:15:09] <PetefromTn_> my eyes are not what they once were tho..
[20:15:17] <robinsz> hah, youngster ;)
[20:15:28] <PetefromTn_> best I ever shot was a tied for fourth in the Nationals
[20:15:34] <robinsz> nice
[20:16:05] <PetefromTn_> I shoot something called WFTF World Field Target Federation class using Spring piston airguns
[20:16:08] <robinsz> I got through to the last 20 in the natioanls at Bisley once, but ended up at about 18th
[20:16:17] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[20:16:34] <robinsz> I have a couple of springers, nothing good though
[20:16:51] <robinsz> FW77 and some BSAthing
[20:16:54] <PetefromTn_> now I spend most of my time and money fixing up my damn house and trying to make my machines work
[20:17:02] <PetefromTn_> HW77?
[20:17:07] <robinsz> yes
[20:17:12] <PetefromTn_> AWSEOME RIFle
[20:17:14] <PetefromTn_> RIFLE
[20:17:16] <PetefromTn_> heh
[20:17:17] <robinsz> push the putton, pull the lever
[20:17:23] <PetefromTn_> yup simple as dirt
[20:17:38] <PetefromTn_> a 12ftlbs HW rifle is a force to be reckoned with on the FT courses
[20:17:39] <robinsz> I shoot an air airm pre charge mostly
[20:17:47] <PetefromTn_> which one
[20:17:53] <robinsz> SA 200 i think
[20:17:59] <PetefromTn_> I have had a bunch of Pro-Targets
[20:18:03] <PetefromTn_> Daystates
[20:18:13] <robinsz> I use mine on pigeons ;)
[20:18:17] <PetefromTn_> built a couple PCP FT rifles from scratch
[20:18:55] <PetefromTn_> I don't really shoot critters anymore it got boring. Headshots at 50 yards are nothing with a quality PCP
[20:19:03] <tjtr33> whats the wench command to leave someone a message?
[20:19:12] <robinsz> quite, but my kids like to shoot pigeon
[20:19:27] <robinsz> air or 12ga
[20:19:40] <PetefromTn_> I am slowly working on a big chunky FT stock for my HW77 12ftlbs
[20:20:00] <PetefromTn_> I am also building an RWS54 semi recoilless rifle short stroked to 12ftlbs
[20:20:02] <robinsz> cnc'd?
[20:20:17] <PetefromTn_> no I have a metal cutting VMC
[20:20:25] <PetefromTn_> try not to cut too much wood on it
[20:20:31] <robinsz> yeah,
[20:20:31] <PetefromTn_> I have thought about it tho
[20:20:35] <robinsz> they are OK on wood
[20:20:38] <robinsz> and ok on metal
[20:20:42] <robinsz> but not both
[20:20:55] <PetefromTn_> pretty damn awesome on metal LOL
[20:21:04] <robinsz> Haas VMCs are widely used for making guitars, believe it or not
[20:21:05] <PetefromTn_> decent on wood just slower cutting
[20:21:18] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I know a guy down in Chattanooga that does it
[20:21:58] <PetefromTn_> I just bought my first guitar... an acoustic Takamine Jasmine
[20:22:10] <PetefromTn_> Trying to learn to strum that damn thing now ;)
[20:22:17] <robinsz> nice guitar
[20:22:28] <robinsz> you know my other business?
[20:22:52] <robinsz> http://usa.matrixamplification.com/guitar-amps.html
[20:22:56] <PetefromTn_> I don't know shit about you LOL
[20:22:56] <robinsz> thats us
[20:23:15] <PetefromTn_> Ooh pretty..
[20:23:23] <robinsz> anodized too
[20:23:32] <PetefromTn_> maybe you can help me build the audio amp I want to build LOL
[20:23:36] <robinsz> and laser engraved on the black
[20:23:47] <robinsz> we do audio amps too
[20:24:05] <robinsz> http://pa.matrixamplification.com/mf-series.html
[20:24:11] <robinsz> big enough for you?
[20:24:59] <PetefromTn_> actually I want a monaural tube amp setup duals
[20:25:03] <robinsz> we do all those in black anodise and laser engrave now
[20:25:11] <robinsz> yeuuuuwww.
[20:25:14] <PetefromTn_> and I can't afford that stuff anyways LOL
[20:25:19] <robinsz> Mosfets man ...
[20:25:25] <robinsz> thats the way to go
[20:25:26] <PetefromTn_> naah...
[20:25:57] <PetefromTn_> after have heard some amazing tube amps at the local audio club meetings I am a believer now...
[20:26:23] <robinsz> well, they are a good way to take money off people ;)
[20:26:28] <tjtr33> isnt it a tube preamp and fet final drive?
[20:26:45] <robinsz> tjtr33, the VB800? yes,
[20:26:55] <PetefromTn_> I love that you make some cool stuff for sale tho man...
[20:27:10] <PetefromTn_> I try to come up with good products to machine and sell and so far have had limited success..
[20:27:17] <robinsz> seen our artist roster?
[20:27:49] <robinsz> http://usa.matrixamplification.com/artists.html
[20:27:51] <tjtr33> yeah, but how can we juf=dge and amp used by megadeath ;)
[20:27:56] <robinsz> heh
[20:28:01] <robinsz> and Metallica ...
[20:28:03] <robinsz> and ...
[20:29:00] <robinsz> infact, we have Chris Broderick visiting next week, hes a real great guy
[20:30:08] <robinsz> and this is why I need to get the router up and running again, as I have a whole pile of fron panels that need machining
[20:30:33] <robinsz> single flute cutter at 18,000 rpm in 6mm ally sheet
[20:30:36] <robinsz> works perfectly
[20:31:28] <PetefromTn_> I have seen a lot of people use routers for aluminum so apparently it works for light cuts
[20:31:40] <robinsz> 6mm sheet
[20:31:43] <robinsz> single pass
[20:32:01] <PetefromTn_> you have an industrial heavy duty router tho right..
[20:32:06] <robinsz> no
[20:32:15] <robinsz> Vytek Rebel2
[20:32:50] <robinsz> the serious routers are cutting 12mm sheet, single pass with a 12mm cutter
[20:33:04] <PetefromTn_> thats a pretty big router tho almost what I would consider a commercial machine
[20:33:13] <robinsz> well, yea commercial
[20:33:17] <robinsz> but not rigid
[20:33:22] <PetefromTn_> IE its not an MDF homebuilt job
[20:33:26] <robinsz> its a folded aluminium gantry
[20:33:32] <robinsz> and round rails
[20:34:00] <robinsz> not a heavy duty machine like a Multicam
[20:35:39] <robinsz> ok bedtime
[20:35:44] <robinsz> wife demands it
[20:35:48] <PetefromTn_> Ok nice chattin
[20:36:05] <robinsz> good luck with the anodize
[20:36:15] <PetefromTn_> we'll see ;)
[21:59:00] <furrywolf> I put together one of the eu1000is... it ran well at idle, but if you put a load on it, it'd rev up, then stall. carb was good. muffler... completely plugged solid! I stuck a garden hose in the end, and not even a trickle came out the other end. replaced it with a muffler off one of the other units, that isn't plugged... but is filled with oil.
[21:59:27] <furrywolf> letting it burn out the oil now, likely annoying anyone downwind.
[21:59:50] <XXCoder> fun
[22:00:13] <furrywolf> it's still a little slow at high load... this muffler is probably clogged too. it supported a full load with no problems with no muffler at all, but that was a little annoying.
[22:01:01] <furrywolf> and the third muffler I have, let it put out full power, but was almost as loud as no muffler at all. I took another look at it, and found someone had drilled a bunch of random holes in the bottom of it.
[22:01:12] <XXCoder> is muffler cleanable?
[22:01:24] <furrywolf> no
[22:01:53] <XXCoder> isnt it just specific shaped tube with certain baffles inside?
[22:01:57] <furrywolf> and a new muffler is $60+shipping.
[22:02:23] <furrywolf> http://cdn.boats.net/diagram/honda/14ZT30/ILLUST/ZT34F/1500B.png note how the muffler is flat. it has a little hole on each side, with no other access.
[22:02:31] <furrywolf> I'd need to cut all around it and weld it back together to clean the insides
[22:02:41] <XXCoder> leave it inside oil solvent for few days?
[22:02:54] <furrywolf> and the baffles are often perforated metal, which you can't get a brush or anything through.
[22:03:11] <furrywolf> I could try that, but I haven't had success dissolving carbon buildup before.
[22:03:24] <furrywolf> I tried whacking it with a hammer, and it dumped some crap out, but I don't think it did anything useful.
[22:03:32] <XXCoder> hmm interesting. makes me wonder if carbon deposts needs different solvent
[22:04:13] <furrywolf> carbon is very hard to dissolve. that's one of its major uses, in fact. :)
[22:04:32] <XXCoder> yeah pretty resistant to corrosion
[22:04:50] <XXCoder> sonic water cleaner?
[22:05:05] <XXCoder> it dont transform carbon but maybe loosen
[22:05:14] <furrywolf> I don't have one it can fit in, and if it's anything like spark plugs, it's too tough for it to break up.
[22:05:24] <furrywolf> I tried cleaning a carbon fouled spark plug in it with minimal success.
[22:05:43] <XXCoder> darn out of ideas. :) maybe just week long soaking lol gonna go
[22:07:03] <furrywolf> hrmm, forum post suggests soaking it in gun cleaner
[22:07:37] <furrywolf> also suggests thermal shock... get it glowing and dump it in a bucket of cold water.
[22:10:26] <furrywolf> that's not a half bad idea... let it roast on the propane torch for a while, then dunk it. will probably crack it all off nicely.
[22:11:40] <furrywolf> not today though.
[22:11:54] <roycroft> put it in your media blaster cabinet and hit it with some aluminium oxide
[22:12:07] <roycroft> that's how i've cleaned carbon encrusted spark plugs
[22:12:10] <roycroft> and it works brilliantly
[22:12:46] <furrywolf> that won't work on the inside of a complicated muffler. :)
[22:13:12] <furrywolf> for cleaning spark plugs, I have one of those little mini spark plug sandblasters meant just for the purpose... I just tossed one in the ultrasonic cleaner to see what would happen.
[22:13:19] <roycroft> not unless you cut it open, which would present a whole lot of new problems
[22:13:50] <furrywolf> the best suggestion I've found yet is to heat it up and dunk it in cold water, and hope the carbon cracks
[22:15:12] <roycroft> i assume you've already fixed the problem that caused the carbon buildup in the first place
[22:16:14] <furrywolf> the carb was completely full of rust flakes and the jets were clogged. they were probably running it with the choke full on all the time to keep it running. that was the only way I could keep it running when I first tested it.
[22:16:32] <roycroft> lovely
[22:16:56] <furrywolf> also, the fuel strainer is AWOL.
[22:17:05] <roycroft> and they were using how many gallons per mile?
[22:17:06] <furrywolf> someone removed the fuel strainer, then added fuel from a rusty gas can.
[22:17:17] <furrywolf> the fuel system is entirely plastic, so there's no way the rust came from the generator.
[22:17:22] <furrywolf> (plastic fuel tank too)
[22:18:12] <roycroft> people wonder how i have so much stuff when i'm not rich
[22:18:20] <roycroft> 1. i'm old and have had a lot of time to get stuff
[22:18:32] <roycroft> 2. i'm patient and can wait for really good deals on stuff
[22:18:47] <furrywolf> I got 17 broken honda generators for $150. :)
[22:18:49] <roycroft> 3. (most important) i learn how to take care of my stuff so i don't have to buy the same stuff over and over
[22:19:18] <furrywolf> I've gotten three of them working so far!
[22:19:52] <roycroft> it sounds like at least some of your income depends on people who at the very least don't follow that third item
[22:20:02] <furrywolf> yep
[22:20:49] <roycroft> i just don't understand the mentality of "i will use this until it dies, then i'll replace it"
[22:21:04] <furrywolf> hrmm, this one still isn't doing full power well... works great until about 700W of its 900W rating then the output starts to sag and flicker
[22:21:14] <furrywolf> roycroft: too much spare money
[22:21:33] <furrywolf> also, if you check what honda service shops charge, it doesn't cost that much more to use things until they break! heh
[22:21:47] <roycroft> or, more commonly, "i will abuse this and then when it dies i'll be astonished that it dared to die, and try to get someone to bring back to life, and try not to pay that person"
[22:21:48] <furrywolf> honda shops seem to run about $100/hour, and even something like a valve adjustment is 2 hours on one of these...
[22:22:14] <roycroft> that's poor design
[22:22:19] <furrywolf> this one might have an electrical problem too... the flicker doesn't seem right for an inverter generator.
[22:22:25] <roycroft> reason enough not to buy it
[22:23:40] <furrywolf> to adjust the valves, first you pull off the end housing, the control panel, the sides, the engine mounts, the bottom plate, the carb and air intake, then the cowlings (to take them completely off you have to remove the alternator, but I found they'd bend enough to do the valve lash with the alternator on), then you can get to the valve cover.
[22:23:44] <roycroft> if routine service costs a significant percentage of the cost of the item it was not designed well
[22:24:03] <furrywolf> the valve adjustment itself takes about 2 minutes. it's getting to them and getting it all back together.
[22:24:13] <furrywolf> these generators have lots of layers for sound damping.
[22:24:14] <roycroft> when i was growing up my next door neighbor was a dodge enthusiast
[22:24:18] <roycroft> not dodge muscle cars
[22:24:23] <roycroft> but dodge family sedans
[22:24:44] <roycroft> he got one in the late '60s/early '70s that changed his mind after decades of buying dodges
[22:24:46] <roycroft> it was a v8
[22:24:55] <roycroft> and he could only change 7 of the spark plugs
[22:25:07] <furrywolf> I don't like dodges. they always break, and nothing is built to be fixed.
[22:25:13] <roycroft> to get to the eighth one required unbolting the motor mounts and pulling the engine forward about 3"
[22:25:37] <furrywolf> or cutting a hole in the firewall under the heater. :P
[22:25:43] * furrywolf has seen this hole
[22:25:53] <roycroft> that's probably what a lot of folks did
[22:26:10] <roycroft> my neighbor did most of his own routing maintenance, but was not a mechanic
[22:26:16] <roycroft> routine
[22:26:26] <roycroft> i'm sure the dealer would never cut that hole
[22:26:35] <roycroft> the dealer would just charge $500 for a tuneup
[22:26:39] <furrywolf> the worst spark plugs I've done were a dodge caravan
[22:26:51] <roycroft> back in the last
[22:26:57] <roycroft> late '60s/early '70s
[22:26:59] <furrywolf> v6, with three of the spark plugs down inside the valve cover... a half inch from the firewall.
[22:27:48] <roycroft> my '58 chevy pickup was the best vehicle to work on under the hood
[22:27:57] <furrywolf> I'm sure the official procedure included pulling the engine. I managed to do it with contortionism, u-joints, 1" extensions, and lots of swearing.
[22:28:08] <roycroft> you could put half a football team under the hood and still have room to wrench on anything
[22:28:19] <furrywolf> my subaru has a nice clear access path to every spark plug. can do them in a minute if you were really rushing. :P
[22:28:42] <furrywolf> I changed and timed the dist in five minutes once...
[22:29:16] <furrywolf> I knew the dist was marginal, and has picked up a spare, but hadn't had the time to put it in... sure 'nuff, it eats the pickup when I'm not at home. but I had tools, and a spare dist...
[22:29:39] <furrywolf> the upper bearings were shot, care of way too many miles, and it was rubbing on the pickup.
[22:33:01] <roycroft> my beetle doesn't have spark plugs
[22:33:14] <roycroft> which makes it even easier
[22:33:47] <furrywolf> I want a subaru diesel, but they're still too expensive.
[22:34:54] <roycroft> but so much cheaper to operate
[22:40:22] <furrywolf> the price difference between a subaru diesel engine ($10000) and a subaru gasoline engine ($200) can buy a lot of fuel. :)
[22:41:07] <alex4nder> and then you own a subaru diesel
[22:41:12] <alex4nder> now you have two problems
[22:42:28] <furrywolf> alex_joni: I know, having lots of power, torque, reliability, and economy is such an annoying problem.
[22:43:14] <furrywolf> alex4nder:
[22:47:10] <alex4nder> furrywolf: and for free you get: a v1.0 engine program, no replacement parts, and support from a company with barely any diesel experience
[22:47:28] <alex4nder> iwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #linuxcnc
[22:47:34] <alex4nder> derp
[22:48:08] <furrywolf> when you're in the US and import an engine from the EU, you already get no parts and no support... :P
[22:48:24] <alex4nder> as a random aside, anyone have any experience dynoing stepper motors?
[22:49:16] <alex4nder> it looks like the SOP is just apply torque until it stalls
[22:50:14] <furrywolf> and repeat at a bunch of different speeds, drive voltages, drive currents, stepping waveforms,...
[22:50:19] <alex4nder> yah
[22:50:56] <furrywolf> the torque goes way down with speed, up proportional to both drive voltage and drive current - but only one at a time, because at low speeds you're in the current-controlled region, at high speeds you're in the voltage-controlled region,...
[22:51:21] <alex4nder> yah, understand basically what the torque output looks like based on the manufacturer spec sheets
[22:51:31] <alex4nder> I could probably fake it just based on that
[22:51:41] <alex4nder> but I'd like to actually measure what my exact setup is doing
[22:53:23] <furrywolf> I'd love to get 65mpg with 155hp and 280ftlbs... but it's just too expensive.
[22:53:52] <furrywolf> from what I've heard, they've turned out to be pretty reliable, with cracked flywheels being about the only regular issue, and even that's rare.
[22:55:34] <furrywolf> bbl, shower time
[23:04:48] <furrywolf> meh, too late for a shower.
[23:05:01] * furrywolf wasted too much time dicking around with mufflers