#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-06-18

[02:14:55] <Deejay__> moin
[02:15:26] <JonOS> anybody know how to call a subroutine of a loaded file from MDI command line, or if it is possible? I haven't had luck but may be failing to see the proper way ....
[02:16:36] <JonOS> I'd like to be able to change some parameters ... #1, #2 etc. then call the subroutine with something like o100 call [#1] [#2]
[02:26:11] <JonOS> anyone active here?
[02:26:52] <archivist> yer
[02:29:53] <archivist> I tend to write my constants at the beginning of the gcode prog and then call the O routine, it makes sure I have a clean start each time
[02:33:21] <JonOS> so you are able to call the subroutine from the MDI command line:?
[02:35:51] <JonOS> I am trying to shorten the development time from the cycle (edit file, save file, reload file, run program .... then over again .....)
[02:36:36] <JonOS> it seems that you can not edit a loaded file and then immediately run it ...
[02:37:09] <JonOS> just trying to figure out the usual order of operations ..
[04:37:45] <XXCoder> boo
[05:15:55] <Deejay> re
[06:15:28] <_methods> as far as i know you'll always have to load/reload an edited file
[07:31:49] <Valen> anybody heard anything about these? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-2kw-water-cooled-Spindle-2-2kw-ATC-Spindle-80mm-ISO20-CS020D/2043393979.html
[07:32:52] <malcom2073> $2k each? For that price you could get something that *isn't* chinese junk
[07:35:09] <Valen> malcom2073: link?
[07:38:03] <malcom2073> Unknown, I've always dealt with the $300 2.2kw chinese water cooled spindles :P
[07:38:10] <malcom2073> Never needed anything nicer
[07:38:11] <_methods> are you getting that for the iso20 ?
[07:38:46] <_methods> the tool changer aspect?
[07:40:06] <_methods> i don't see where it says what pullstud you're supposed to use
[09:08:39] <zeeshan|2> anyone knwo where i can get a 9/64 spring pin
[09:08:41] <zeeshan|2> in a bind
[09:08:46] <zeeshan|2> like ASAP in the next hr
[09:08:53] <_methods> auto parts store
[09:08:58] <zeeshan|2> really?
[09:09:07] <zeeshan|2> i tried industrial suppliers and none had
[09:09:08] <_methods> possibly
[09:09:15] <zeeshan|2> didnt try auto supplier
[09:09:30] <_methods> they acutally stock a lot of whacky stuff
[09:09:41] <_methods> you never know what they'll have hardware wise
[09:09:54] <_methods> but in a bind i usually hit autostore
[09:10:21] <syyl_> no farm-equipment-dealer nearby?
[09:10:30] <zeeshan|2> i live in hamilton aka steel city
[09:10:40] <zeeshan|2> ive called my 3 main go to fastener supply stores
[09:10:53] <zeeshan|2> im wondering if maybe peeople have seen em at home depot
[09:11:44] <zeeshan|2> lol one just called me back
[09:11:49] <zeeshan|2> told me 9/64 is an odd size
[09:11:51] <zeeshan|2> they carry 5/32
[09:12:06] <zeeshan|2> will use 5/32
[09:41:44] <CaptHindsight> 9/64 spring pin in Chicago: Ace hardware, McMaster. In China: spring pin warehouse/roll up door building with 1783 wooden barrels filled with spring pins
[09:42:07] <CaptHindsight> sold by the Kg
[09:43:42] <zeeshan|2> lol
[09:44:01] <zeeshan|2> i learned a lesson the hard way
[09:44:10] <zeeshan|2> spring pins -> just drill to its nominal size.
[09:44:13] <zeeshan|2> don't over think it like i did
[09:44:17] <zeeshan|2> and use a stupid table
[09:44:29] <zeeshan|2> thinking that if you made it nominal, it'd be too tight to fit
[09:44:35] <zeeshan|2> :P
[09:44:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bloomberg.com/image/i3GzFFSgmJeQ.jpg the front would look similar to this
[09:44:42] * zeeshan|2 has to go to the next size up spring pin now
[09:46:26] <CaptHindsight> http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/26394260/2/stock-photo-26394260-curbside-streetview-of-a-hardware-store-in-china.jpg "how many buckets you want?"
[09:51:41] <CaptHindsight> how many times to you send a pallet by freight that comes back the next day damaged with he same carrier? 1 time, twice, 3 or as many times until it finally makes it to the destination intact?
[09:58:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.heidenhain.us/machine_tool_controls.php was interesting talking to these guys yesterday, since they didn't have any way to customize their controls without the factory rewriting source
[09:59:01] <CaptHindsight> they had never heard of Linuxcnc
[10:08:00] <lair82> It's funny how so many aftermarket/oem cnc suppliers have never heard of Linuxcnc.
[10:09:42] <CaptHindsight> might have been just the salespeople there
[10:10:53] <CaptHindsight> people are usually surprised when I say I have no need for their controls or can't really use them if I tried
[10:11:47] <CaptHindsight> but most of those tend to be know it all automation salespeople that are zealots for seimens or fanuc
[10:47:14] <MrFluffy> CaptHindsight, do you have any agri dealers nearby?
[10:47:21] <MrFluffy> for the spring pin
[10:48:36] <MrFluffy> or auto dealers, they used to use those in the door hinges extensively
[10:49:20] <MrFluffy> sorry zeeshan|2
[10:50:11] <CaptHindsight> the stealerships around here would probably charge $8 per pin
[10:50:59] <_methods> http://makezine.com/2015/06/18/vaporize-metal-3d-printer-mod/
[10:51:12] * _methods can't wait for all the makers to electrocute themselves
[10:51:30] <_methods> this should clear out the gene pool pretty quick
[10:52:08] <MrFluffy> there was a guy asking about if anyone was interested in a sinker edm kit for a 3d printer on hsm last week
[10:52:20] <_methods> lol
[10:52:43] <MrFluffy> it'd probably be ok for etching logo's and things though, maybe
[10:52:59] <_methods> you an do that with a vinyl cutter and a power supply
[10:53:07] <MrFluffy> I think its the same person
[10:53:16] <_methods> or an exacto knife and some artistic ability
[10:53:45] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I was talking to the head of Additive manufacturing research at Oak Ridge Labs yesterday http://www.ptonline.com/blog/post/ornl-to-discuss-large-part-3d-printing-at-amerimold
[10:54:24] <CaptHindsight> I think they fired everyone over 40 years ago
[10:54:28] <_methods> heheh
[10:54:48] <MrFluffy> I use my bridgeport with a side mounted kitchen trimmer myself :)
[10:54:56] <CaptHindsight> I have no hope for any new tech in the USA. It would be a welcome surprise however
[10:55:50] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQCw-sCYGc BAAM Big Area Additive Manufacturing
[10:56:13] <_methods> checkin now
[10:56:24] <MrFluffy> given the price of plastic by the kg in rolls, its going to work out pricing itself out the market isnt it?
[10:56:40] <MrFluffy> anything bigger than a small box its far cheaper to just buy in
[10:56:45] <CaptHindsight> it was actually kind of sad how misinformed he is about materials and technology, and he has a core team of ~25 and can draw from a pool of >100
[10:57:43] <MrFluffy> thats empirical, because I have a printrbot too
[10:58:03] <_methods> that video is not very informative
[10:58:16] <MrFluffy> http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38753-1/trimmer_mounted.jpg <-- low budget engraving r-us
[10:58:59] <MrFluffy> I thought running my main spindle at 500% frequency might result in something going bang inside the motor ...
[10:59:30] <_methods> i like how they say the 3d printed the cobra
[10:59:41] <_methods> looks to me like the just printed the body panels
[10:59:55] <_methods> then bondo'd the hell out of it
[11:00:12] <MrFluffy> yes, and its not got much structural integrity because of all the striations and potential fatigue lines
[11:00:40] <MrFluffy> in fact, it'd be better if they just used grp... printed a mould, layed it up
[11:01:26] <MrFluffy> I like 3d printing and use mine a lot, but theres a saying, when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail...
[11:01:33] <_methods> yeah
[11:03:54] * Jymmm just "packed" the drill press, feels weird.
[11:05:14] <CaptHindsight> _methods: supposedly they have "secret projects" that are better
[11:06:39] <CaptHindsight> I can't imagine them being much more since he was clueless about how to deposit and formulate materials for outdoor use or how to 3D print CF well
[11:06:57] <_methods> yeah i'm not seeing much innovation there
[11:07:08] <_methods> looks like they made a head that tamps teh layers
[11:07:21] <CaptHindsight> their printer kept on bumping into any stray CF and would crash
[11:07:25] <_methods> maybe it's supposed to help with the bonding or something
[11:07:45] <Jymmm> _methods: that's kinda sad
[11:07:53] <_methods> what?
[11:07:54] <CaptHindsight> heh, yeah he was proud of that breakthrough
[11:08:09] <CaptHindsight> exactly
[11:08:13] <_methods> what squishing your layers of toothpate together
[11:08:17] <_methods> lol
[11:08:17] <Jymmm> _methods: the necessity to tap-to-bond
[11:08:24] <CaptHindsight> it was leaving stay fibers and high spots
[11:08:47] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: stray fibers sounds like a thermal issue
[11:08:57] <_methods> i'm sure that tamper is heated
[11:09:00] <_methods> and causing that
[11:09:25] <Jymmm> temp too low
[11:09:27] <_methods> have him print a pyramid
[11:09:32] <_methods> see how the top looks lol
[11:09:39] <CaptHindsight> their hope is move away from thermoplastics and start using thermosets but stay with FDM
[11:09:43] <Jymmm> or not regulated enough
[11:10:28] <_methods> they should just go ask the #reprap guys for help
[11:10:32] <SpeedEvil> FRP FDM could be awesome
[11:10:48] <CaptHindsight> he didn't see how radcure, thermal cure or hybrid cure systems will solve his problems
[11:11:23] <CaptHindsight> _methods: sadly is some areas #reprap is ahead of them
[11:11:27] <CaptHindsight> is/in
[11:11:33] <SpeedEvil> radcure/raduncure would be cool
[11:11:34] <_methods> wow that is very sad
[11:12:16] <CaptHindsight> they have some conference near Oak Ridge on Oct if you want a tour
[11:12:50] <CaptHindsight> they just have more funding and lots more "scientists"
[11:13:06] <SpeedEvil> Filliment winding and knitting is ideally made for 3d printing
[11:13:17] <_methods> i hear that bre pettis guy is lookin for a job
[11:13:22] <_methods> maybe they can pick him up
[11:13:23] <SpeedEvil> it's just a leetle nmnore connmnplenx
[11:13:25] <CaptHindsight> heh
[11:14:24] <CaptHindsight> I started to tell him about how to solve his weathering problems and also how to weave CF into the resins but was interrupted by the event staff
[11:17:00] <_methods> well 3d printer people already know everything so you couldn't possibly have anything to offer them
[11:17:17] <_methods> hehe
[11:17:46] <Jymmm> _methods: Well shit, maybe I need to go over there and ask them for tomorrow's lottery numbers
[11:18:13] <_methods> they invented the lottery so yeah
[11:18:17] <_methods> the printed the balls
[11:18:32] <Jymmm> lol
[11:19:03] <_methods> once they invented the sphere the rest was easy
[11:19:09] <_methods> just ask them in #reprap lol
[11:19:16] <CaptHindsight> lol
[11:23:04] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: the issue is when the nozzle lifts and moves to another location the thermoplastic leaves a small filament since the nozzle doesn't cut the flow of molten thermoplastic
[11:23:51] <CaptHindsight> if the nozzle is extruding a thermoplastic and a CF at the same time the thin filament is pretty strong
[11:24:05] <Jymmm> CF?
[11:24:13] <Jymmm> cont flow?
[11:24:32] <CaptHindsight> so if left looped up above the surface the nozzle would crash (CF = carbon fiber)
[11:25:17] <CaptHindsight> there was much discussion over should the nozzle have a cutter on the tip or should they pat down the extruded material
[11:25:45] <CaptHindsight> the decision was made to pat down the surface after extruding
[11:26:04] <Jymmm> That sounds more like a software issue. There are automated dispensers that stop and even reverse the flow to prevent dripping prior to jogging to the next fill point.
[11:26:39] <CaptHindsight> cnc glue guns don't have a valve in the extruder
[11:26:58] <CaptHindsight> they work very similar to actual hand operated glue guns
[11:27:16] <Jymmm> *shrug*
[11:27:18] <CaptHindsight> so they can't cut off the flow very quickly
[11:27:23] <malcom2073> Retract and wipe
[11:27:50] <CaptHindsight> I know sounds "challenging" doesn't it
[11:28:21] <Jymmm> I've used industrial glue guns, ie a tank of molten hot glue attached to a heated hose and gun, Never had an issue with drips or "tails" for a lack of a better word.
[11:28:40] <CaptHindsight> so rather than have a valve and cutter on the tip of the extruder they decided to pat down the material after it's deposited
[11:29:15] <_methods> groundbreaking
[11:29:19] <Jymmm> imo sounds like a bandaid and not a root-cause solution
[11:29:28] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: that is because hot melts get formulated for the given application
[11:30:09] <CaptHindsight> and you can't tell a glue gun fanatic to do the same with filaments or to design a proper nozzle and extruder
[11:30:33] <CaptHindsight> that would be "overbuilding" or something similar :)
[11:30:47] <malcom2073> If you have a better idea, design it. Otherwise you sound a lot like those you're bashing on :P
[11:30:50] <Jymmm> Sorry, I shouldn't have let myself get dragged into this and I blame _methods for that
[11:31:00] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: I do
[11:31:02] * Jymmm kicks _methods in the shins
[11:31:13] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: And make it available open source for the public?
[11:31:26] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: some is open some is not
[11:32:46] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: they even avoid Linuxcnc
[11:33:01] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Not all of them, just the ones you focus on :P
[11:33:19] <CaptHindsight> they prefer *duinos and short sighted motion controls
[11:34:13] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: it's not short sighted, just no need for that precision/control/accuracy.
[11:34:19] <malcom2073> I can point to a decent number of cnc mill people who prefer duinos and things like grbl though, so it has nothing to do with reprap.
[11:35:09] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it's mostly been taken over by people trying to make a $ off those a bit behind them in glue gun tech
[11:35:30] <CaptHindsight> the SLA/DLP printers have gone the same route
[11:36:02] <malcom2073> So has the CNC market
[11:37:01] <Jymmm> If I want to hook a hdmi device to advi/vga display, what do I want an hdmi-to-dvi -OR- dvo-to-hdmi adapter?
[11:38:12] <malcom2073> That always screws with me
[11:38:12] <malcom2073> I think both adapters are the same, the only difference being gender
[11:38:19] <malcom2073> for dumb adapters
[11:38:35] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: aren'y you the one that was also pro cloud based CAD?
[11:38:54] <CaptHindsight> or were you joking?
[11:39:19] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: I am the one who mentioned it here, that much is correct. I've not formed an opinion about it yet :P
[11:39:36] <CaptHindsight> so mostly trolling
[11:39:43] <malcom2073> Not at all.
[11:40:15] <malcom2073> I live under the seemingly false pretense that other people are entirely rational beings with whom I can communicate with in a meaningful fashion for the enrichment of both parties.
[11:40:19] <malcom2073> ^^ That, was trolling.
[11:40:44] <alex4nder> what's wrong with cloud-based CAD?
[11:40:46] <malcom2073> But no, I mean you no harm or inconvenience
[11:40:55] <malcom2073> alex4nder: Run away, run away fast... trust me
[11:41:06] <alex4nder> haha
[11:41:12] <malcom2073> from the conversation :P
[11:41:15] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you have to read the specs, I see them listed either way
[11:51:42] <CaptHindsight> I just watched that video. It's like saying that this http://eggershomeconstruction.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/frontright.33105553_std.JPG was printed when all you did was print this
[11:57:09] <_methods> Jymmm: heheh don't kick me
[11:57:39] <_methods> you know you like troll'n the reprappers too
[11:58:38] <CaptHindsight> was there some change to what engineering schools taught after the 70-80's?
[11:59:04] <_methods> yes cad happened
[11:59:14] <CaptHindsight> maybe
[11:59:16] <malcom2073> Heh
[11:59:22] <CaptHindsight> less hands on
[11:59:32] <_methods> i blame it all on cad
[12:00:05] <malcom2073> yeah silly cad, we should go back to before cad. So much more got done
[12:00:22] <_methods> they landed on the moon without it
[12:00:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.blifaloo.com/illusions/ilimg/blivet.gif what do you mean that you can machine this by 5pm?
[12:00:29] <malcom2073> True
[12:00:33] <_methods> when was the last time we went there
[12:00:40] <malcom2073> Not since CAD!
[12:00:43] <CaptHindsight> can/can't
[12:00:46] <_methods> i rest my case
[12:02:04] <CaptHindsight> _methods: did we crash something there in past few years?
[12:02:10] <_methods> hahah
[12:02:12] <_methods> i think so
[12:02:25] <_methods> probably not us though
[12:02:27] <malcom2073> Wasn't that the chinese?
[12:02:30] <_methods> wasn't india or chinese
[12:02:36] <_methods> they put a rover up there
[12:02:41] <malcom2073> yeah
[12:02:51] <CaptHindsight> and someone mapped the dark cheese side
[12:03:37] <malcom2073> mmmmm moon cheese
[12:22:04] <_methods> donald trumps brain?
[12:23:44] <roycroft> saying "donald trump's brain" is like saying "military intelligence"
[12:24:08] <Jymmm> both are oxymorons
[12:24:13] <roycroft> yes
[12:24:26] <roycroft> and saying "donald trump's mouth" is merely redundant
[12:25:38] <CaptHindsight> https://houseofsunny.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/screen-shot-2013-03-20-at-3-02-37-pm-e1364321236931.png?w=250
[12:25:47] <CaptHindsight> silly party
[12:25:58] <Jymmm> If I want to connect a HDMI device to a DVI display, do I want an HDMi-to-DVI -OR- DVI-to-HDMI adapter?
[12:26:13] <roycroft> hdmy to dvi
[12:26:21] <roycroft> and make sure the dvi display is a digital display
[12:26:28] <roycroft> dvi can carry both analog and digital signals
[12:26:31] <roycroft> hdmi is digital only
[12:26:55] <Jymmm> Is that DVI dual or somethign like that?
[12:27:03] <roycroft> which is why you can get dvi-vga and vga-dvi adapters, but not hdmi-vga or vga-hdmi
[12:27:06] <roycroft> it can be
[12:27:09] <roycroft> it's not always
[12:27:18] <CaptHindsight> and the listings will interchange HDMI with DVI so you have to check the specs to see what it really does
[12:27:23] <roycroft> which is why you need more information
[12:27:24] <Jymmm> DVI-D
[12:27:31] <Jymmm> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2505&seq=1&format=2
[12:28:00] <Jymmm> DVI-A analog only,
[12:28:08] <Jymmm> DVI-I both
[12:28:15] <roycroft> that sounds right
[12:28:15] <Jymmm> DVI-D digital only
[12:28:27] <roycroft> hdmi is always only digital
[12:28:30] <Jymmm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
[12:28:34] <Jymmm> yeah.
[12:29:48] <Jymmm> DVI in gerneral just annoys me
[12:29:55] <Jymmm> Err I mean HDMI
[12:30:23] <Jymmm> specifically HDCP =)
[12:31:20] <CaptHindsight> it's for your benefit like the cloud
[12:31:38] <Jymmm> Wow, I kinda like how monoprice gives detail beyond specs.
[12:31:47] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: lol, true.
[12:31:58] * Jymmm hugs his NAS =)
[12:32:39] <roycroft> clouds darken your day and eventually they rain on you
[12:32:55] <Jymmm> Nice analogy
[12:33:24] <CaptHindsight> haters :)
[12:33:42] <Jymmm> Damn Skippy =)
[12:34:58] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah that description of the cable pretty much sums it up
[12:35:07] <CaptHindsight> better than Amamzon
[12:35:58] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if it was written by an old person, you know 40+
[12:36:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It's nice that they give things to "look out" for and capabilties as well, especially for a $8 cable, kinda impressive
[12:36:59] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: are you still selling your small router?
[12:37:11] <CaptHindsight> someone was looking for one here yesterday
[12:37:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: yes
[12:39:31] <CaptHindsight> shaun413> Is there anything else in that price range that would be better? https://www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve
[12:40:23] <anarchos2> anyone know of a machinekit specific channel?
[12:49:15] <Rab> anarchos2, I only know of the mailing list and the Google Group: http://blog.machinekit.io/p/support.html
[12:51:46] <Rab> I guess the mailing list just replicates the machinekit-specific Google Group. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/machinekit
[12:54:43] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2: I have never heard of a specific channel, just the forum but people do often ask away in here in the hopes someone will know the answer to their problem/question
[12:56:04] <anarchos2> i was just hoping to ask some dumb questions that i don't really want to ask on the mailing list
[12:56:15] <anarchos2> such as, how far along they are, what actually works, etc etc
[12:58:22] <CaptHindsight> I hear it works fine headless with that BBB cape/shield/IO board
[12:58:31] <CaptHindsight> the GUI is slow
[12:59:23] <anarchos2> i want to use it with a remote gui, really.
[12:59:59] <CaptHindsight> trying to test hm2_eth on ARM now
[13:00:44] <anarchos2> using the mesa ethernet board?
[13:00:52] <CaptHindsight> if it works fine with the Mesa boards then I expect any ARM board with non usb ethernet to have a chance
[13:01:10] <CaptHindsight> cubie2, imx6 etc
[13:01:35] <CaptHindsight> lost of ARM soc's don't have integrated ethernet
[13:01:55] <CaptHindsight> some Allwinner's and imx6 do
[13:02:12] <CaptHindsight> lost/lots
[13:03:58] <CaptHindsight> cubie2, cubie-truck, bananna pi, wandboard
[13:05:22] <anarchos2> i really want to use gmoccapy on an android tablet to control my machine :P
[13:05:35] <anarchos2> it's possible over remote X/VNC, but it's kinda laggy
[13:06:38] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2: how choppy is X?
[13:06:52] <anarchos2> but that would still require norbert to port it to whatever remote api mk is using
[13:07:24] <anarchos2> CaptHindsight, it's better than VNC, but still not the greatest. I think it has a lot to do with my network, though.
[13:07:47] <anarchos2> my controller is using a cheapo aliexpress usb wifi, and it doesn't get much signal to my router :P
[13:07:59] <anarchos2> i should try creating a direct network between the controller and tablet
[13:08:49] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2: let us know how well it works and with what tablet
[13:09:12] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2: are you doing this all over wifi?
[13:09:56] <anarchos2> si
[13:10:58] <archivist> wifi and usb, remember the saying two wrongs dont make a right
[13:11:59] <anarchos2> right now i'm trying to figure out how to make a second X screen with the proper resolution for the tablet.
[13:12:01] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, thought you might like this: http://www.electronicproducts.com/Packaging_and_Hardware/Prototyping_Tools_Equipment_Services/Metal_printing_robot_builds_a_mid_air_bridge_slides_forward_as_constructs_the_rails.aspx
[13:13:50] <Jymmm> iRobot
[13:14:02] <Jymmm> not just in the movies any more =)
[13:14:52] <archivist> iFkUp
[13:15:46] <Jymmm> It depends. They do have inspection robots, and if the include that factor and not short cut anything... maybe
[13:17:06] <Jymmm> I think an robotic erector set would be better than on-the-fly molten metal construction.
[13:18:49] <Jymmm> structural intergrity =vs= artistic/architectural art/design
[13:20:30] <Jymmm> Heh a beidge building robot using 80/20, except of ourse for the thefts (plural) of the aluminum along the way =)
[13:20:36] <Jymmm> bridge*
[13:21:02] <_methods> if you want to sell this it needs to be renewable lol
[13:21:10] <_methods> cardboard bridge
[13:21:22] <_methods> with 2 liter bottle hand rail
[13:21:27] <CaptHindsight> union robots
[13:21:34] <Jymmm> They tried that way back when... tar and paper plumbing
[13:21:37] * archivist rains on the cardboard
[13:21:43] <_methods> robot has to come in a wooden box also
[13:22:15] * Jymmm puts _methods in a wooden box, and in a cool dark place.
[13:22:20] <_methods> hehe
[13:22:27] <MrFluffy> once the copiers get their hands on the first, the rest will arrive in cheap wooden boxes for sure :)
[13:22:32] <CaptHindsight> most of these projects start out as PR stunts
[13:22:46] * archivist watches the termites eat the wooden box
[13:23:00] <CaptHindsight> get a team of actual engineers together and make it practical
[13:24:21] <CaptHindsight> did people think that robots can't weld and assemble?
[13:24:46] <_methods> kickstarter
[13:24:59] <CaptHindsight> heh DIY bridge kit
[13:25:47] <CaptHindsight> what is a bridge? How is this bridge truss different from a building truss?
[13:26:02] <MrFluffy> its a visual pr thing
[13:26:33] <archivist> I shall patent a bridge painting robot
[13:26:34] <CaptHindsight> that what gets me is how people compartmentalize based on the marketed name vs the parts and structure
[13:27:08] <CaptHindsight> people have been well trained
[13:28:15] <CaptHindsight> archivist: http://www.mtdcnc.com/machine-tool-news/schunk-on-the-harbour-bridge.asp
[13:29:20] <archivist> shall be no impediment to my patent as that was not a printed bridge!
[13:32:13] <MrFluffy> all the phone manufactures used the same technique, with the addition of "on a phone" to the existing patents
[13:32:47] <CaptHindsight> it's all for our benefit
[13:33:21] <CaptHindsight> otherwise why would people keep voting these people into office :)
[13:33:21] <archivist> who would print such a scabby postcard http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barber-Colman-Company-Industral-Metalworking-Gear-Hobber-New-Modern-Postcard-M59-/291495299004
[13:34:25] <CaptHindsight> "Having a wonderful time. Wish you were here."
[13:34:56] <CaptHindsight> didn't know that they were in Rockford....
[13:35:23] <Tom_itx> i sent a postcard from 'Hell' to the same effect
[13:35:24] <CaptHindsight> archivist: if you've ever been to Rockford you'd see that pic as a highlight
[13:35:32] <archivist> hehe
[13:36:08] <CaptHindsight> well there is the Cheap Trick guitar museum
[13:36:16] <Tom_itx> http://www.hellgifts.com/main.htm
[13:36:24] <archivist> he was listing them for a lot more but no one seems to be buying :)
[13:38:46] <MrFluffy> I sold a computer double height winchester disk drive last year for $50 to some collector
[13:38:53] <MrFluffy> because it "looked steampunk"
[13:39:05] <MrFluffy> on ebay
[13:39:16] <Tom_itx> MrFluffy what's his number?
[13:39:22] <_methods> heheh
[13:39:30] <_methods> 555-5555
[13:39:33] <MrFluffy> I dunno, but I turfed about 40 in the bin before having the idea to list them
[13:39:46] <MrFluffy> clearing out old computer junk...
[13:40:02] <archivist> there are collectors for everything
[13:40:03] <MrFluffy> we'd be using that one as a door stop for 20 years
[13:40:42] <MrFluffy> I'm as bad, I collect vintage games consoles and computers, but a mfm hard disk? thats a bit extreme...
[13:40:45] <CaptHindsight> the Transit Authority in Chicago was still using a big blue iron for payroll a few years ago, some towns never give up their old hardware
[13:40:54] <MrFluffy> it will have been about 2Mb in capacity
[13:41:14] <MrFluffy> I bet he didnt have a controller or cables to go with it
[13:41:20] <_methods> i was just reading something the other day sayin some school was still using an amiga to control all it's stuff
[13:41:25] <CaptHindsight> their IT director asked by to find vintage 80's drives for other equipment they had
[13:41:47] <_methods> see if i can find that article
[13:41:47] <archivist> MrFluffy, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/hdinfo/
[13:41:47] <MrFluffy> heh that amiga story has been all over, theres a A2000 switched on next to me in this room as I have a soft spot for htem
[13:42:21] <CaptHindsight> nobody gets fired if the same payroll computer has issues, replace it with a new PC and if there a hickup heads will roll
[13:42:38] <MrFluffy> you can replace most 80's drive tech with modern stuff nowadays
[13:42:48] <MrFluffy> that amiga here has sd cards for its scsi hard disks...
[13:43:02] <MrFluffy> and has a floppy emulator that uses usb sticks to hold 1000 floppies at once
[13:43:19] <MrFluffy> theres appreciating classic things, and there's masochism :)
[13:43:19] <CaptHindsight> they had a custom built Mac512-ish mainboard for all their service manuals
[13:43:29] <_methods> http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/14/amiga-controls-school-district-hvac/
[13:43:30] <_methods> lol
[13:43:57] <_methods> Replacing it with a modern system could cost up to $2 million dollars,
[13:44:06] <_methods> those hvac guys there got a good scam going
[13:44:10] <MrFluffy> thats for all the hvac components needed and links
[13:44:12] <CaptHindsight> i could do it for well over $5m
[13:44:16] <_methods> replace shitty old amiga for $2m lol
[13:44:24] <MrFluffy> the amiga is a small part of it
[13:44:38] <MrFluffy> they only want to replace it because the control links get interfered by two way radio
[13:44:54] <Rab> I have a Seagate ST-225 with a sort of prehistoric SCSI interface, quite rare. I'm on the verge of tearing it apart to use the case for a project.
[13:45:08] <MrFluffy> but the clickbait headlines say its for the amiga
[13:45:19] <CaptHindsight> how come I don't get these clueless customers?
[13:45:40] <Tom_itx> Rab i've still got a st225 238 mfm
[13:45:41] <_methods> lol
[13:45:46] <MrFluffy> ST-225 is quite modern isnt it?
[13:46:00] <Rab> Made this from two other ST-225s years ago, when they were still just junk: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/theremin/image/powersupply.jpg
[13:46:24] <Rab> MrFluffy, that might depend on how old you are.
[13:46:34] <MrFluffy> I have my zx81 still, does that date me?
[13:46:40] <_methods> hahah
[13:46:42] <_methods> yes
[13:46:51] <MrFluffy> zx81 = timex ts1000 in the states I think
[13:47:06] <archivist> I have my MK14 still :)
[13:48:11] <MrFluffy> Cool. I wanted a nascom for my collection but the prices have become insane
[13:48:31] <SpeedEvil> I have an actual booting cambridge z88
[13:48:35] <SpeedEvil> - z80 tablet
[13:48:46] <archivist> uncle clives first https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK14
[13:48:50] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Cambridge_Z88
[13:49:17] <SpeedEvil> I think I have a broken zx81 board somenwhenre
[13:49:52] <MrFluffy> do you have the rampack with edge connector that wobbled and caused myriads of youth to scream in agony when it crashed yet again though?
[13:50:39] <Rab> Hmm, I had one of those.
[13:50:58] <archivist> moonlander on the mk14 always crashed....into the moon
[13:51:18] <Rab> E-wasted the ts1000 and maybe the rampack when I tried it a couple years ago and the thing wouldn't boot any more.
[13:51:54] <SpeedEvil> MrFluffy: es
[13:52:09] <archivist> the ram in my PET has failed too
[13:52:13] <MrFluffy> the stuff here works, but I emulate it on a wii mostly
[13:52:28] <MrFluffy> far less painful :)
[13:52:29] <Rab> I was using badass 64K CP/M machines from Morrow and Osborne, the 1000 was just a sad slow toy with the world's worst keyboard.
[13:53:26] <MrFluffy> there's retro chic, and there's masochism :)
[13:53:30] <Jymmm> Bondwell... Kaypro clone =)
[13:53:36] <Jymmm> Luggable
[13:53:50] <archivist> with long arms
[13:53:58] <Rab> Here you can see the user flinching in anticipation as they hover for the mash: http://www1.pcmag.com/media/images/269003-sinclair-zx81-timex-sinclair-1000-1981-82.jpg
[13:54:19] <Rab> Jymmm, wicked.
[13:54:22] <MrFluffy> theyre going for j shifted-p to load something :)
[13:54:58] <Jymmm> This is EXACTLY what I had... http://insertcoin.freaknet.org/app/uploads/2014/07/bondwell.jpg
[13:55:15] <MrFluffy> you could actually get sound of one of them, there was a program called buzz which turned them into a basic organ
[13:55:28] <MrFluffy> it painted interference lines on the tv which caused it to hum in different tones
[13:55:40] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: I had a text-to-speech program for mine
[13:55:44] <Rab> 128K, amber screen, 2 drives (DS/DD?), leet.
[13:56:20] <Jymmm> MrFluffy: Yeah, 1.2MB
[13:56:29] <MrFluffy> looks quite useable
[13:56:43] <MrFluffy> there's probably a few still tucked away in use as terminal servers or something
[13:57:24] <MrFluffy> I went in a secure datacentre a few years back and they had a amber screen wyse on a tea trolley still for serial admin
[13:57:37] <MrFluffy> because it didnt save keystrokes or something was the reasoning
[13:58:19] <Rab> hah
[13:58:56] <Jymmm> HAHAHA (the last line) http://tanrunomad.com/vintage-computer-collection/bondwell/
[13:59:09] <MrFluffy> they also had the worlds oldest wonkiest ladder, because to get a new one meant they had to train everyone in ladder training.. bizarre mindset
[13:59:16] <Jymmm> It REALLY does look like one when closed up.
[13:59:43] <MrFluffy> there was a apple 1 handed into a recycling centre recently
[14:00:02] <MrFluffy> it sold for 2k+ theyre trying to trace hte person who dropped off "the old junk"
[14:00:06] <MrFluffy> to give them half
[14:00:19] <SpeedEvil> 200k IIRC
[14:00:35] <Jymmm> yeah $200K
[14:01:00] <tjtr33> http://www.oldcomputers.net/lobomax80.htm z80 s & cpm = rule the world :)
[14:01:19] <Jymmm> I STILL have CP/M around here soemwhere
[14:01:28] <CaptHindsight> everyone that had one back then said so
[14:02:17] <MrFluffy> those mfm drives were out of a rainbow dec, I wish I had found that clearing out
[14:03:04] <tjtr33> we did schematics in orcad and drew them with this israeli plotter that 'sbiffed' the edges of the paper and alligned itself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR8enP09RPI
[14:03:15] <tjtr33> sniffed
[14:04:06] <Computer_barf> ok so i made a program to cut out a heart, but my heart did not cut deep enough
[14:04:18] <MrFluffy> bandsaw time?
[14:04:37] <Computer_barf> so im wondering how i can send my tool back to where i homed it
[14:05:08] <Computer_barf> maybe im supposed to run a specific gcode? i don't see anything like "send to home"
[14:06:12] <CaptHindsight> Computer_barf: are you using Linuxcnc and Axis?
[14:06:17] <Computer_barf> yes
[14:06:40] <cradek> I don't understand what you're asking. why not fix the gcode to cut deeper and then run it again
[14:06:45] <_methods> g0 x0 y0
[14:07:06] <CaptHindsight> i think he just wants to knwo how to get back to 0 0 0
[14:07:11] <Computer_barf> yes
[14:07:39] <cradek> I don't see how that follows from the explanation
[14:07:45] <Computer_barf> although cradek just made it sound like i don't even have do to that
[14:07:59] <Computer_barf> that maybe I change my program to cut deeper and don't even bother
[14:08:40] <Computer_barf> the program ended with the tool raised an inch or so above the starting point ,
[14:09:02] <MrFluffy> tjtr33, very nice, give it a knife and you have a large format paper cutter?
[14:09:05] <Computer_barf> but i suppose if linuxcnc knows where zero is, it will run the program relative to that
[14:10:27] <cradek> if you don't change offsets and your program is in absolute mode (G90) it will run in the same place the second time
[14:11:09] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-_and_four-stroke_engines may amuse
[14:41:19] <PetefromTn_> Howdy!
[14:44:48] <_methods> hola
[14:45:21] <PetefromTn_> hey methods howzitgoin?
[14:45:28] <_methods> alright
[14:45:38] <_methods> i'm gonna quit my job so i can get high speed internet
[14:46:14] <_methods> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/f-c-c-votes-to-move-forward-with-plan-to-subsidize-broadband-for-poor-americans
[14:46:22] <_methods> thank you fcc
[15:17:49] <Tom_itx> if they give you interweb, they can also pump you full of propaganda with it
[15:25:14] <zeeshan|2> fak just got home from research lab
[15:25:19] <zeeshan|2> now its gonna be another 8 hours of machining
[15:25:27] <zeeshan|2> i gotta get this job done before i leave tomorrow for 4 days
[15:25:28] <zeeshan|2> =/
[15:55:38] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: better 8 hoiurs than 10 lol
[15:55:45] <XXCoder> todays my "friday" :)
[16:06:08] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:06:14] <zeeshan|2> well i put 8 hours in the mornig at research
[16:06:17] <zeeshan|2> just ate something
[16:06:22] <zeeshan|2> now 8 more hours of machining
[16:06:29] <zeeshan|2> but its more relaxed 8 hours cause i can go at my own pace
[16:06:46] <XXCoder> :)
[16:07:10] <XXCoder> in least, today, no more hell part job!
[16:07:21] <XXCoder> its easy part, just strip of alum curved ends
[16:07:27] <XXCoder> but 1,000 parts jeez
[16:07:30] <zeeshan|2> holy
[16:07:30] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:07:38] <zeeshan|2> i cant handle repetitive jobs
[16:07:40] <zeeshan|2> unless its like 10.
[16:07:54] <XXCoder> I can, its tricky holding thats problem
[16:08:00] <XXCoder> must place it so both ends are cut
[16:08:12] <XXCoder> if too far left or right one end is uncut and scrap
[16:08:31] <zeeshan|2> :/
[16:08:34] <XXCoder> not too diffult even then, but again and again jeez
[16:09:54] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:10:52] <XXCoder> I like old job method better
[16:11:01] <XXCoder> they do curved ends first
[16:11:17] <XXCoder> then go to cutter cut em into parts
[16:11:28] <XXCoder> then cnc mill smooth cut ends
[16:11:32] <XXCoder> thats it
[16:11:53] <zeeshan|2> you had to make 1000 today?
[16:11:56] <zeeshan|2> all in one shift?
[16:11:59] <XXCoder> no over week
[16:12:08] <XXCoder> I usually finish 200+ a shift
[16:12:15] <XXCoder> others usually finish 180s
[16:12:24] <XXCoder> im usually one of fastest worker
[16:12:29] <XXCoder> setup one of slowest lol
[16:22:14] <Deejay> gn8
[16:22:58] <PetefromTn_> I don't believe you ;)
[16:33:08] <tiwake> woo
[16:33:14] <tiwake> suspense is rising
[16:33:22] <PetefromTn_> for?
[16:33:52] <tiwake> the mill has been down for ~2 weeks now and tracking down the electrical problems and waiting for parts
[16:34:08] <tiwake> today, and soon, I'll be putting in the last part to see if it works
[16:34:31] <PetefromTn_> sweet good luck!
[16:34:32] <tiwake> had to basically reverse engineer the driver board for the DC servos
[16:34:42] <tiwake> on this stupid haas VF1
[16:34:58] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: lol basically i gott amake a wedge for one of the jobs i gotta get done tonight
[16:35:02] <zeeshan|2> he wants a rough texture.
[16:35:10] <zeeshan|2> im thinking taking a 1.5" end mill
[16:35:16] <zeeshan|2> and just feeding it at 20 ipt
[16:35:18] <zeeshan|2> 0.020
[16:35:22] <zeeshan|2> what do you think? :P
[16:35:45] <tiwake> zeeshan|2: counting on deflection to make a taper?
[16:35:52] <zeeshan|2> no
[16:35:57] <zeeshan|2> to make the rough surface
[16:36:00] <tiwake> oh
[16:36:02] <zeeshan|2> my other option is using a ball end mill
[16:36:05] <zeeshan|2> to make diamonds
[16:36:10] <zeeshan|2> but thats more work and he's not paying me for it
[16:36:24] <tiwake> yeah..hmm
[16:36:33] <tiwake> use a roughing endmill
[16:36:34] <PetefromTn_> not sure what you mean
[16:36:35] <zeeshan|2> i like need to knurl a part
[16:36:36] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:36:37] <tiwake> if you have one
[16:37:00] <tiwake> those leave a nice texture
[16:37:16] <zeeshan|2> give me a few min to model it
[16:37:53] <tiwake> zeeshan|2: http://www.use-enco.com/ProductImages/0188696-23.jpg
[16:38:06] <tiwake> they leave groves in the metal
[16:38:23] <tiwake> unless you are planning on using the end part of the endmill
[16:40:05] <zeeshan|2> those just make circles
[16:40:12] <zeeshan|2> oh you mean
[16:40:15] <zeeshan|2> use it with side milling
[16:40:20] <tiwake> yeah
[16:40:41] <tiwake> might not be feasible if its a big part
[16:40:54] <zeeshan|2> 3x4
[16:40:59] <zeeshan|2> yea
[16:41:03] <tiwake> borderline
[16:41:55] <tiwake> enh, two passes using a big 1" roughing endmill... those are typically what, 2" of flute?
[16:41:57] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/7Viw5mP.png
[16:42:02] <zeeshan|2> i havent cammed it yet
[16:42:05] <zeeshan|2> but im thinking 20 min
[16:42:06] <zeeshan|2> not worth it
[16:42:13] <zeeshan|2> i was gonna just take a 1.5" end mill
[16:42:36] <zeeshan|2> and do the angle in one pass
[16:42:40] <zeeshan|2> at 0.020 ipt
[16:42:52] <zeeshan|2> but i still think it wont leave nice deep scallops
[16:42:59] <zeeshan|2> i want like 10 thou scallops
[16:43:07] <tiwake> hmm
[16:43:54] <tiwake> not a nice way to grab that
[16:43:59] <tiwake> yeah, have fun
[16:44:02] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:44:09] <zeeshan|2> well its easy to grab
[16:44:15] <zeeshan|2> i just put angles under it
[16:44:25] <zeeshan|2> so the part is at an angle
[16:44:34] <zeeshan|2> and flatten the material sticking out
[16:44:49] <tiwake> right, but you cant rough machine it very nicely
[16:45:05] <tiwake> maybe a fly cutter if he does not care about circular groves?
[16:45:28] <zeeshan|2> hey thats not a bad idea.
[16:45:49] <zeeshan|2> i can quickly grind a \/ profile
[16:45:57] <tiwake> woo \o/
[16:45:58] <zeeshan|2> and then set 0.010 doc
[16:46:06] <zeeshan|2> and then feed it really fast
[16:46:10] <zeeshan|2> to get the even patterns
[16:46:23] <zeeshan|2> good idea :P
[16:46:47] <tiwake> I don't get to use fly cutters very often
[16:46:49] <zeeshan|2> okay i gotta do this other job that im already late on quickly
[16:46:49] <tiwake> lol
[16:46:54] <zeeshan|2> and then ill attempt this later tonight
[16:47:10] <tiwake> and I have a machine to assemble and test!
[16:47:25] <zeeshan|2> what type
[16:47:54] <tiwake> haas VF1... turns out the carbon buildup inside the DC servo was causing power to leak over
[16:48:05] <zeeshan|2> damn pm dc motors
[16:48:06] <zeeshan|2> :P
[16:48:34] <tiwake> and a separate issue the driver board for that axis blew out from a bad PAL chip
[16:48:44] <tiwake> I thought it was one issue at first
[16:49:02] <tiwake> well, until two days ago
[16:49:03] <tiwake> meh
[16:49:09] <tiwake> last couple days have been long
[16:49:18] <tiwake> trying to figure out this machine
[16:49:46] <tiwake> thats the last part of the machine that has not been taken apart and put back together
[16:49:52] <tiwake> until today
[16:49:53] <tiwake> lol
[16:50:29] <tiwake> we have a very complete understanding of every bolt in that machine now
[16:50:52] <_methods> it's a haas, you'll need that
[16:51:05] <zeeshan|2> nice
[16:51:23] <tiwake> its the 136'th machine haas built
[16:51:37] <tiwake> built in 1990
[16:51:37] <_methods> ugh
[16:51:57] <tiwake> yeah, I hate it too... lol
[16:52:37] <_methods> well the only good thing about a haas is their support
[16:52:56] <_methods> they are so good at fixin their broken machines they make other techs look silly
[16:53:28] <_methods> i'm pretty sure if you get 3 haas techs together with their vans they can assemble a full vf3 from the parts in thier trucks
[16:53:34] <tiwake> we cant afford somebody to come in and fix it
[16:53:51] <_methods> theyll actually help you over the phone usually
[16:54:02] <_methods> they do whatever they can to not send someone
[16:54:04] <tiwake> not if its the 136th machine they made
[16:54:06] <_methods> hahah
[16:54:13] <_methods> maybe not
[16:54:33] <tiwake> the service manuals online dont go further back than 1993
[16:54:48] <tiwake> and the programming manuals only go back to 1995
[16:54:50] <_methods> yeah you're kinda back in the dark ages with that one
[16:55:07] <_methods> the ballscrews are still good?
[16:55:16] <tiwake> actually it seems so
[16:55:19] <_methods> wild
[16:55:28] <_methods> spindle bearings?
[16:55:30] <tiwake> it has been worked on before, that much is obvious
[16:55:36] <_methods> it's a haas
[16:55:40] <_methods> that's a given
[16:56:01] <tiwake> the Y axis servo has been serviced fairly recently
[16:56:09] <_methods> we have 4 haas machines at my shop and there is something broke on them every month
[16:56:37] <tiwake> heh
[16:57:12] <tiwake> the X axis was flat out shorting from the carbon buildup... I don't think that one has been serviced in a very long time
[16:57:46] <tiwake> the Y and Z were leaking power a little, got the Y taken apart and the bearings looked practically new
[16:58:06] <_methods> on the linear ways?
[16:58:09] <tiwake> yeah
[16:58:14] <_methods> well that's good
[16:58:19] <tiwake> linear bearings look good
[16:58:42] <tiwake> ballscrews are not flaking or seem to have any backlash really
[16:59:21] <tiwake> the bearings in the X axis servo was completely shot
[17:00:00] <_methods> that sux
[17:00:21] <_methods> the other good thing about haas is its usually pretty easy to find spare parts lol
[17:00:41] <tiwake> unless it was the 136th machine that was made
[17:00:46] <_methods> true
[17:01:08] <_methods> is haas out of jail yet?
[17:02:04] <tiwake> well, its not that bad... we replaced the air solenoid assembly... different part and had to do some hand waving to get it wired correctly
[17:02:20] <tiwake> but enh, its not too bad really
[17:02:28] <_methods> whatd you pay for that?
[17:02:44] <_methods> for the vf1 that is
[17:02:46] <tiwake> uh, I think it was $600?
[17:03:01] <tiwake> for the port block and air solenoids
[17:03:16] <_methods> probably more than you paid for the vf1 lol
[17:04:12] <tiwake> actually, not... it was a lot more, and because it was a startup company had to get a sharkloan to get it :-/
[17:04:40] <tiwake> I wasent around for that, if I was it would probably have been a different machine
[17:04:41] <tiwake> lol
[17:04:54] <_methods> yeah ouch
[17:05:26] <tiwake> its one of those leasing things at then at the end you buy it for $1
[17:05:35] <tiwake> s/at//
[17:05:53] <_methods> yeah
[17:06:30] <tiwake> when there is more disposable income, I want to linuxCNC it up
[17:06:48] <_methods> oh i thought that's what you were doing
[17:07:00] <tiwake> no, not yet
[17:07:19] <tiwake> if the computer part of it is bad then I will
[17:07:54] <_methods> so you guys are leasing a used machine?
[17:08:05] <_methods> or when they originally bought it was on lease?
[17:08:40] <tiwake> no, got the lease from some third party that likes sucking life out of startup businesses
[17:09:06] <_methods> oh wow so they leased a broken machine?
[17:09:49] <tiwake> this was threeish years ago... it was just a well used machine really
[17:10:29] <_methods> man that hurts
[17:11:53] <tiwake> alright, I'm going to put in this Xaxis servo and see if this works at all
[17:16:39] <_methods> good luck
[17:18:25] <tiwake> luck is for somebody who does not understand how systems work :)
[17:21:34] <tiwake> I love linux
[17:21:47] <tiwake> and reading about things like this http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=More-x86-ASM-To-C-Linux
[17:33:33] <cradek> I tried to clean it up incrementally, but I decided it was too hard. Instead, this series just replaces the code. It seems to work.
[17:33:47] * cradek shivers
[17:36:02] <_methods> wow wtf
[17:47:32] <_methods> i guess i know where to start pokin around in the kernel for 0-days now
[17:53:32] <anarchos_> is it a crazy idea to suggest a plugin type system for gmoccapy?
[17:54:12] <anarchos_> put a single line in your .ini pointing to a zip file that contains all the .py and .glade files along with icons and whatnot?
[18:06:55] <alex4nder> I think this taig is going to be able to do 120 IPM rapids with these steppers
[18:07:04] <alex4nder> so far,.. this is pretty awesome
[18:07:10] <alex4nder> this 7i76e setup is great
[18:38:31] <tiwake> nop, didnt work
[18:38:36] <tiwake> blew out a resister
[18:38:56] <tiwake> going to do some more checking, might be a component thats fried that I didnt notice before
[19:40:59] <furrywolf> the local small engine shop lost my order of honda parts. they blame it on a computer issue.
[19:46:37] <malcom2073> Bet they don't lose the invoice for charging you
[19:47:14] <furrywolf> almost. they had to dig through their CC receipts looking for one with the right dollar amount.
[19:47:38] <furrywolf> they ordered it directly from honda today, rather than waiting to combine it with a few days' orders like they usually do.
[19:49:18] <furrywolf> the manager was pissed. turns out he doesn't like computers in general, and this happened several times last week... they enter an order, and it simply vanishes. no trace of its existance except in the credit card logs...
[21:04:42] <tiwake> strange
[21:05:09] <tiwake> well, got the electronics tested to the best of my ability
[21:05:21] <tiwake> and replaced several more parts
[21:05:40] <furrywolf> what're you working on?
[21:06:21] <tiwake> Xaxis driver board for my haas VF1
[21:06:38] <furrywolf> and does it work now? :)
[21:06:42] <tiwake> donno
[21:07:08] <tiwake> I'm eating before I do, havent really eaten today trying to get it going
[21:07:42] <tiwake> it blew out before
[21:08:24] <tiwake> found another problem downstream, fixed it, and a resister blew out again
[21:09:05] <tiwake> so its somewhat dubious if it will work or not
[21:09:19] <tiwake> it might be the main computer assembly telling the driverboard to do bad things
[21:09:58] <tiwake> I bet those are not cheap
[21:09:58] <furrywolf> ah, the hidden "fuse test mode".
[21:10:13] <tiwake> ..?
[21:11:29] <furrywolf> fuse test mode is an old joke for a software bug turning on both the high side and low side power devices at once, shorting the power supply through them
[21:12:04] <tiwake> hmm
[21:12:26] <tiwake> donno, when I write software I just liter it with printf's
[21:13:05] <furrywolf> you don't tend to have printfs when writing the software that runs inside a driver board. :)
[21:13:21] <furrywolf> (note that I have absolutely no clue what a haas vf1 x-axis driver board looks like...)
[21:13:24] <tiwake> well yeah, but I'm confused with how they relate
[21:14:01] <tiwake> the most complicated part of the driver board is the PAL chip
[21:14:11] <furrywolf> "fuse test mode" is any issue that causes both the high and low side devices to be on at once... could be hardware, but it's usually designed to prevent that, sometimes software...
[21:15:34] <tiwake> oh, thats what the PAL chip was doing
[21:15:46] <furrywolf> I'm not saying that's your problem, just the first thing that came to mind when you said it could be the brains telling it to do bad things... that's the characteristic example of a bad thing the brains could do.
[21:15:52] <tiwake> PAL chip was bad and telling it to go forward and reverse at the same time
[21:16:11] <furrywolf> yes. don't do that. lol
[21:16:19] <tiwake> burned a hole through the FETs :)
[21:17:03] <furrywolf> suggestion: for testing, power it up with a suitably current-rated light bulb in series with the positive supply
[21:17:42] <furrywolf> works best for initial testing without the motor connected
[21:18:19] <furrywolf> then if the driver shorts, rather than blowing more mosfets, all it does is turn the light bulb on.
[21:19:31] <tiwake> this is what they look like http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xhaas+32-4070.TRS0&_nkw=haas+32-4070&_sacat=0
[21:20:23] <furrywolf> that board is way too simple for the price tag.
[21:20:35] <tiwake> yep
[21:20:46] <tiwake> haas wants $1100 for one of those
[21:20:58] <tiwake> new
[21:21:49] <furrywolf> are you sure there's no short in your motor wiring?
[21:21:56] <tiwake> there was, thats the thing
[21:22:20] <tiwake> the PAL chip was bad and a short in the motor from carbon buildup from the brushes
[21:23:00] <furrywolf> you didn't develop a bad pal chip and a shorted motor at the same time... did one of the transistors dump high voltage back to the pal chip?
[21:23:01] <tiwake> took the motor apart cleaned it, fixed the carbon buildup, which the other servos are starting to have the same issue...
[21:23:39] <tiwake> well, not sure... not sure why the PAL chip would go bad
[21:24:02] <tiwake> at first thought it was one issue, but I don't think the short caused the PAL to go bad
[21:24:24] <tiwake> there might be an upstream issue still, telling it to blow up things
[21:24:30] <furrywolf> a base/gate short can dump high voltage back through the driver chain
[21:25:10] <furrywolf> audio amps like doing that too... you blow an output pair, and find every other transistor between there and the preamp is gone too.
[21:25:40] <furrywolf> check T1-3 and T11-13
[21:26:01] <tiwake> well yeah, all the transistors were checked :P
[21:26:26] <tiwake> and they are all good
[21:26:30] <furrywolf> hrmm
[21:26:39] <furrywolf> what are the little 8-pin chips? if optos, check them too
[21:26:43] <tiwake> a zener diode was dead
[21:27:17] <tiwake> nothing else interesting was dead
[21:27:25] <furrywolf> if it's 160VDC, power it up with a 100W household light bulb in the + supply line. :)
[21:27:26] <tiwake> oh, the 555 timer was dead
[21:27:53] <furrywolf> 555s are pretty tough... they don't die, you have to kill them.
[21:27:59] <tiwake> yeah
[21:28:16] <tiwake> I suspect it was from the FET exploding
[21:28:18] <tiwake> heh
[21:28:31] <furrywolf> the light bulb test is really, really good for preventing more power transistor replacements
[21:29:13] <tiwake> well, I have an upstream 5amp fuse in place
[21:29:25] <tiwake> for the power input
[21:29:37] <tiwake> that should catch it
[21:29:51] <furrywolf> if there's no problem, the light bulb might try glowing for the tiniest instant as the supply caps charge, then it'll stay dark. then try driving it with the motor disconnect. with no load, the bulb should stay completely dark. but if something tries shooting through the drivers, instead of them blowing, the bulb just comes on.
[21:30:08] <furrywolf> yes, and how did all the onboard fuses do at preventing it the first time? :)
[21:30:45] <tiwake> the on board fuses are rated at 20 amps and are located just before the motor
[21:31:01] <tiwake> before I knew the motor was shorted, those fuses were still good
[21:31:03] <tiwake> lol
[21:31:04] <furrywolf> the one an inch from the power input?
[21:31:22] <tiwake> nop, thats the output to the servo
[21:31:39] <tiwake> labeled motor
[21:31:45] <furrywolf> eh? the ones on ebay have three fuses... two at the motor, one at the power input.
[21:31:57] <tiwake> oh, mine only has two
[21:32:02] <tiwake> must be a revision
[21:32:18] <furrywolf> lol. the "we need an extra fuse because the drivers blow themselves up" revision. :)
[21:32:28] <tiwake> ...yeah
[21:33:02] <furrywolf> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDgxNQ==/z/VbkAAOSwBLlU~f4w/$_57.JPG see fuse at far left
[21:33:29] <tiwake> a fuse there would be nice
[21:33:32] <furrywolf> lol
[21:34:15] <tiwake> oh looks like there is a bunch more diodes too
[21:34:36] <tiwake> next to that fuse
[21:34:53] <tiwake> a beefy resister there thats not on mine...
[21:35:55] <tiwake> yeah, 5 more diodes in that revision than from mine
[21:36:09] <tiwake> on that half of the board
[21:36:28] <tjtr33> the PAL might be gating an external PWM thru a bridge to the motor. (maybe) Then too long of a duty cycle = both sides on at same time
[21:36:44] <furrywolf> the pal could be doing most anything
[21:38:37] <tiwake> if I had my way I'd junk all the electronics in the back of the machine
[21:40:44] <furrywolf> toss it all, install a brand new control system with mesa or gecko parts? :)
[21:41:20] <tiwake> I'm not picky if its linuxCNC
[21:41:48] <tiwake> I don't want mach3/4 and windows
[21:41:51] <tiwake> screw windows
[22:07:21] <furrywolf> http://humboldt.craigslist.org/pts/5080882350.html hrmm, do I need my own smog machine? :)
[22:11:00] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind one, but the local smog guy is pretty good about giving free pretests if you'll be doing the actual test there.
[23:38:25] <zeeshan|2> wow
[23:38:29] <zeeshan|2> this part was FUCKINg challenging
[23:38:31] <zeeshan|2> I like!!!!!1
[23:43:10] <tiwake> zeeshan|2: you get it with a flycutter?
[23:44:04] <zeeshan|2> no havent done that
[23:44:08] <zeeshan|2> will start on that in 30 min
[23:44:26] <tiwake> well I think I have my issue fixed finally
[23:44:45] <zeeshan|2> what was the issue
[23:44:48] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/CNds8
[23:44:50] <tiwake> and then I find out it does not like the encoder (probably because its dusty)
[23:44:55] <zeeshan|2> this is the challenging part im talking about
[23:44:58] <zeeshan|2> that i just just finished
[23:45:17] <zeeshan|2> those holes on the same part couldnt be out of axis by more than 5 tenths
[23:45:22] <zeeshan|2> and then stupid block in between them
[23:45:28] <zeeshan|2> the holes couldnt be out on that either
[23:45:31] <zeeshan|2> otherwise it wouldnt slide
[23:45:38] <zeeshan|2> in the end, it turned out SWEET
[23:45:43] <tiwake> ah, yeah... you have a reamer?
[23:45:48] <zeeshan|2> yea duyde
[23:45:53] <zeeshan|2> thats the only way to get it inline
[23:46:06] <zeeshan|2> i kinda cheated in the end.
[23:46:17] <tiwake> the only way anyone wants to screw with it anyway
[23:46:33] <zeeshan|2> i was trying to do it with circular interpolation
[23:46:39] <zeeshan|2> but that didnt work too well
[23:46:44] <tiwake> yeah..
[23:46:44] <zeeshan|2> i tried it on another test piece
[23:46:57] <zeeshan|2> its cause i couldnt do it in the same setup
[23:47:01] <zeeshan|2> and my edge finger is a pos
[23:47:30] <tiwake> you could do that, but have to grind away the flutes so it does not touch the top hole when doing the bottom hole
[23:47:44] <tiwake> so deflection is the same
[23:47:53] <zeeshan|2> end mill wouldnt reach
[23:48:05] <zeeshan|2> its 4" between the holes
[23:48:27] <tiwake> I did that once with a 1/4" endmill and like 3.5" of reach... heh
[23:48:44] <zeeshan|2> dude
[23:48:46] <tiwake> struts for an airplane
[23:48:51] <zeeshan|2> does the shank of an end mill decrease in size
[23:48:58] <zeeshan|2> so the flutes are like say .5" for a 1/2" end mill
[23:49:04] <zeeshan|2> but the shank is like .598
[23:49:21] <zeeshan|2> er
[23:49:23] <zeeshan|2> .498
[23:49:24] <tiwake> donno? depends on who made it?
[23:49:28] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[23:49:34] <zeeshan|2> it'd be nice if it was..
[23:49:46] <zeeshan|2> the ones i measured were .5 througout
[23:50:00] <tiwake> I think normally they take, say 1/2" carbide rod and just grind away
[23:50:01] <renesis> when i measure with .001 calipers theyre usually dead on
[23:50:06] <zeeshan|2> renesis
[23:50:10] <zeeshan|2> a caliper isn't a precision tool
[23:50:11] <zeeshan|2> ..
[23:50:27] <tiwake> dial calipers are quite a bit better :P
[23:50:30] <zeeshan|2> Tiwake yes
[23:50:31] <renesis> its enough to tell .498 from .500
[23:50:57] <zeeshan|2> you need to learn how to intrepret error bands ren.
[23:50:58] <tiwake> renesis: agreed
[23:51:08] <renesis> ok
[23:51:28] <zeeshan|2> accuracy of a caliper is +/- 0.001 in GOOD hands
[23:51:45] <tiwake> zeeshan|2: I've done press fits with my calipers before...
[23:52:10] <tiwake> +-0.0005
[23:52:16] <zeeshan|2> tiwake lol
[23:52:20] <zeeshan|2> ive done it too
[23:52:23] <zeeshan|2> but its a lot of guess work
[23:52:25] <renesis> even the shit digital ones are dead on when measuring gauge blocks
[23:52:57] <renesis> im more comfortable with dial ones,, pretty easy to see if the dial is right over a tick or to the sides
[23:53:01] <tiwake> neh, not really guess work, just knowing the calipers inside and out after years of use :)
[23:53:10] <zeeshan|2> why wouldnt you not use a mic?
[23:53:15] <zeeshan|2> which is much more accurate
[23:53:18] <zeeshan|2> less prone to error
[23:53:27] <renesis> because the calipers are sitting there and they work for .001?
[23:53:39] <zeeshan|2> lol
[23:53:39] <tiwake> pretty much
[23:53:42] <zeeshan|2> i'd love to see you make this part
[23:53:44] <zeeshan|2> with just calipers
[23:54:06] <tiwake> I'd love to have a working mill to make parts with...
[23:54:20] <tiwake> stupid junk old POS haas...
[23:54:30] <renesis> well, i dunno what the part is or why id only use calipers
[23:54:39] <renesis> calipers are fine for shanks
[23:54:51] <zeeshan|2> cool story
[23:54:53] <zeeshan|2> you keep doing that
[23:55:01] <renesis> having a haas minimill would be cool
[23:55:06] <zeeshan|2> when you have a 4 hours invested into a part
[23:55:11] <zeeshan|2> and you have a deadline for it to be finished
[23:55:16] <zeeshan|2> you use that caliper to make it!
[23:55:28] <renesis> ok
[23:55:44] <zeeshan|2> i cant believe im arguing about calieprs vs micrometers tonight
[23:55:56] <tiwake> lol, it is rather amusing :)
[23:56:18] <zeeshan|2> do you guys even machine?!?!?!
[23:56:22] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:56:53] <tiwake> an air gauge would be nice, but they are kinda expensive
[23:57:07] <zeeshan|2> air comparator is made for a known diameter though
[23:57:17] <zeeshan|2> kinda useless except for production
[23:57:22] <renesis> optical stuff i saw as westec was pretty sweet
[23:57:40] <renesis> that seemed to be the focus of every company that wasnt making tools or machines
[23:58:21] <tiwake> I think I let this encoder dry out enough, I'm going to put it back together and see if it fixed the problem
[23:58:49] <zeeshan|2> tiwake: was it glitching