#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-06-16

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[00:01:13] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[00:04:25] <A_Nub> Hey, anyone know what a good amount of overcut is for thin sheets, namely carbon fiber?
[00:04:34] <A_Nub> I just ran a cut with .2mm overcut
[00:04:48] <A_Nub> but my bed is a tad shallow in the middle it seems or my gcode is bad
[00:04:59] <A_Nub> it didn't finish cutting the whole plate
[00:05:35] <A_Nub> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/yP8E5VUS/1434429801.JPG
[00:05:50] <A_Nub> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/TkDZ63Sy/1434429816.JPG
[00:09:21] <Valen> what do you mean by overcut?
[00:09:55] <Valen> you mean depth?
[00:10:17] <Valen> well, deep enough to cut through your CF lol A_Nub
[00:11:14] <A_Nub> Valen: well was just wondering if there was like a standard percentage or what not
[00:11:20] <A_Nub> because I still want tabs etc
[00:11:33] <A_Nub> and it seems I have some uneven movement
[00:11:34] <A_Nub> :/
[00:11:35] <Valen> its nothing to do with carbon fibre
[00:11:41] <A_Nub> right I understand that
[00:11:58] <Valen> how are you holding it down and what to?
[00:12:44] <A_Nub> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/yYrzjwI2/1434430230.JPG
[00:12:51] <A_Nub> I use 4 of those
[00:12:56] <A_Nub> it's plenty tight
[00:13:06] <A_Nub> should I be doing it another way?
[00:18:31] <Valen> that could well be bowing it
[00:18:43] <Valen> how thick is the CF?
[00:19:10] <Valen> also do you have any screws or anything to hold the bit you are cutting out down?
[00:20:41] <A_Nub> 1mm
[00:20:50] <A_Nub> I've had the same issue with 2mm before
[00:20:55] <A_Nub> no screws
[00:21:10] <A_Nub> trying to use tabs
[00:21:20] <A_Nub> they mostly work
[00:21:30] <A_Nub> I think I'll just add more overcut for now
[00:21:43] <A_Nub> need to figure out better mounting
[00:21:44] <A_Nub> :/
[00:24:45] <Valen> for a large thin sheet like that vacuum can help
[00:25:04] <Valen> you also have to wonder if your sacrifical layer is accurate to .2 mm
[00:31:20] <A_Nub> yea highly doubt it is
[00:31:32] <A_Nub> ill just overcut .5mm
[00:31:33] <A_Nub> for now
[00:31:37] <A_Nub> that should get it done
[00:31:50] <A_Nub> wish I had more than a cheapo chinese 3040T, but gotta start somewhere ;)
[00:32:24] <A_Nub> while I got you here any cam reccomendations? Been using cambam
[00:32:38] <A_Nub> I don't like how I can't bring in multiple dxfs
[00:44:23] <Valen> dunno really
[00:44:43] <Valen> I use rhinocam as part of rhino ;->
[00:44:52] <Valen> there are a few opensource ones you could perhaps try
[02:08:59] <Deejay> moin
[02:39:44] <witnit> I have a servo amp im unable to find documentation for, any leads would be nice (44-10193-001 rev k) pmi motion technologies, division of kollmorgen. this is the only information i can find on this dc brush amp
[07:32:20] <jthornton> just using Wheezy file manager and selecting a zip file and right click extract all here and only some of the files are extracted... how nice
[07:33:57] <Tom_itx> did you select the --random option?
[07:38:01] <jthornton> don't know how to add a command line option to a right mouse click
[08:09:44] <lair82> skunkworks, you around/
[08:19:45] <skunkworks> How is the tuning going?
[08:27:16] <lair82> A little discouraging, I get looking not too bad at a low feed rate, then on a high speed jog it sounds like crap
[08:28:18] <lair82> I haven't touched the drive itself, but the machine has been running for 20 some years, flawlessly
[08:29:11] <lair82> So I would imagine the drive is ok, but assumptions are the mother of all F-ups, as they say.
[08:29:52] <lair82> In the INI, what should the OUTPUT_SCALE=, be set to?
[08:30:31] <lair82> I had 10, not sure why, changed it to 1, Look out, crazy shit happened.
[08:31:18] <lair82> I assume it scales the voltage out to the drive, but wouldn't I want 1:1 command?
[08:31:41] <Roguish> Hey all you Linux folks. What is a good way to get a 'remote desktop' in Debian, through another Debian system?
[08:33:27] <_methods> x11 forwarding
[08:33:33] <_methods> vnc
[08:33:45] <_methods> x2
[08:34:18] <Roguish> methods, thanks. can you be specific on the apps? is it all available via synaptic?
[08:34:31] <_methods> x2 and vnc should be
[08:35:00] <_methods> remmina
[08:35:47] <_methods> remmina is pretty user friendly you might want to try thatfirst
[08:36:28] <_methods> rdesktop and vinagre will work also
[08:36:35] <_methods> so you have plenty of options
[08:36:56] <_methods> oh i mean 2x not x2
[08:36:58] <_methods> sorry about that
[08:37:01] <_methods> 2xclient
[08:37:06] <Roguish> ok, remmina is a client to use from the system that I am sitting at, right?
[08:37:15] <_methods> you are on a linux box right now?
[08:37:18] <_methods> then yes
[08:37:52] <Roguish> no, i'm on a win7 box. (I have PuTTY and Xming working to go from win7 to debian)
[08:38:05] <Roguish> via xdmc
[08:38:34] <_methods> but you want to go from debian to debian right?
[08:39:00] <Roguish> yes. to go from my test system in the office to the mill system in the shop.
[08:39:29] <Roguish> What goes on the box I want to remote into?
[08:40:07] <_methods> you may need to set up vnc on the remote box
[08:40:12] <Roguish> in this case the mill box (the server i think is the term)
[08:40:25] <Roguish> terminolgy
[08:40:36] <_methods> i'd set up the same program on both boxes
[08:40:42] <_methods> that should cover all your bases
[08:41:33] <Roguish> so I should install 'remmina' on both boxes?
[08:42:10] <Roguish> ok., i'll give it a whirl.....thanks
[08:43:20] <_methods> i would install it on both just to make things easy
[08:44:56] <Roguish> hopefully all the 'depends' will include both server and client.....
[08:46:19] <_methods> yeah
[08:46:33] <_methods> that's why i'm saying i'd install on both just to make it easy
[08:47:05] <Roguish> cool. i'm reading on remmina now. and if it's on both, i can go either way if I need to.
[09:04:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.e-ci.com/baam big cnc glue gun
[09:05:23] <lair82> PCW skunkworks, I just checked with an indicator, using the .100 incremental jog, I am getting exactly .100 moves on the indicator. So it narrows it down to soley a tuning issue, sound right?
[09:05:54] <skunkworks> that is 1/2 turn of the resovler?
[09:05:56] <CaptHindsight> "This research is sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, Advanced Manufacturing Office, under contract DE-AC05-00OR22725 with UT-Battelle, LLC"
[09:08:14] <CaptHindsight> anyone going to Amerimold tomorrow or Thursday?
[09:11:54] <skunkworks> lair82: just to be sure I would do .025...
[09:26:23] <lair82> skunkworks, I put the .025 and .200 in my INI, restarted, for the .025 move, I am getting between .0235 and .025, for the .200 move I am getting between .199 and .200
[09:27:20] <lair82> skunkworks, and yes, 1 rev of the screw is .200 thou,
[09:28:26] <skunkworks> so tuning.. ;)
[09:29:53] <lair82> Was I right about the output scale that it scales the voltage out to the drive, and that I want 1:1 command, so I should have a 1 in that entry?
[09:56:53] <lair82> skunkworks, I have been going over Johns tutorial, and have it looking like this, how do I get rid of the balance of the error during the cruise, it seems that FF1 isn't doing much more than this to get rid of it.
[09:57:38] <lair82> http://postimg.org/image/da4x4jy6d/
[10:00:17] <cradek> ferror looks small, but it's very zoomed out
[10:00:26] <cradek> looks like you sure have some oscillation during cruise
[10:00:31] <cradek> what does it sound like?
[10:01:06] <cradek> sound/feel
[10:01:23] <cradek> do you feel the oscillation when you put your hand on it?
[10:02:29] <cradek> is it really 12 inch/sec?
[10:07:06] <lair82_> I keep losing network connection at the m achine,
[10:08:10] <lair82_> It shows about 6-7 thou ferror, at the bottom of the halscope, it feels like crap, sounds like crap, it should be 60 IPM, that is what my jog is set at.
[10:09:11] <lair82_> Out of curiosity, how did you decipher 12 IPS from the scope?
[10:13:47] <lair82_> cradek, The vibration is really magnified by the time it gets to the Control pendant, as well, so I can tell just by that, somethings not right,
[10:16:09] <lair82_> I set all tuning values to zero, and started incrementing P until it oscillated after a jog, which was at 18, I then went down 1 at a time till it stopped, it stopped and stabilized at 15. Then I started on the FF1, and it is best with a value of 0.0005, but I can't get it any better,
[10:17:49] <lair82_> I haven't seen or heard anything worthwhile in regards to the at_pid component, but would it even get me in the ballpark to just need fine tuning?
[10:32:32] <cradek> lair82_: the green plot is about .6 div tall on average, .6 * 20 is 12
[10:32:59] <cradek> if it's actually moving 1 ips, that's pretty wrong
[10:33:27] <cradek> lair82_: FF1 won't fix the oscillation, but D probably will
[10:33:41] <cradek> but truly, check your scaling first
[10:36:10] <pcw_home> lair82_: something is really broken in those plots
[10:36:11] <pcw_home> To check resolver issues you need to check steps closer than 100 mill ( 180 degree ) points
[10:36:13] <pcw_home> probably no larger than 25 mill steps ( 45 degrees )
[10:36:58] <cradek> pcw_home: oh you think the feedback is just completely wrong?
[10:37:08] <pcw_home> also if the analog output is scaled in machine units, FF1 should be close to 1
[10:38:14] <pcw_home> Ive seen similar if the 7I49 input is overloaded (so clips) your nice sine/cosine circle becomes a square
[10:38:17] <cradek> yes if you scale it right, a pid output of 1 gives you around 1 ips
[10:39:29] <pcw_home> Its easier to help with PID tuning if the scaling is right since inch and mm machines have similar PID values
[10:39:52] <cradek> ok so he should back up even one more step: make sure position feedback is working sanely
[10:39:56] <pcw_home> (and initial FF1 can be guessed as 1)
[10:41:00] <pcw_home> I would do that first (the 25 mill steps measure with a dial lindicator)
[10:41:19] <cradek> or, with amps off, plot resolver position, manually give a screw a turn, or if it's possible, give an axis a shove
[10:41:57] <pcw_home> also moves at different speeds can discriminate between oscillations and periodic sensor errors
[10:52:43] <cradek> lair82: jeez get a wire
[11:05:12] <ssi> lol
[11:12:39] <ssi> http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/6/8741143/robots-falling-down-during-darpa-robotics-challenge
[11:13:14] <lair82> The bad thing is, I'm at my desk, on a wire, and some BS adware just crashed my whole PC,
[11:14:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/IKEGAI-TNC-125S-CNC-LATHE-B31555-/361005810876 I only need one with 25ft center to center and hold 5ft dia. parts
[11:15:41] <ssi> yeah cause 8' swing is just a smidge overkill
[11:15:56] <ssi> that machine could swing my lathe
[11:16:01] <ssi> sideways
[11:16:01] <CaptHindsight> heh
[11:16:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HWACHEON-MEGA-100X6000-CNC-LATHE-2008-236-CC-10-HOLE-31-1-2-Chk-HANDWHEELS-/231365315010
[11:17:00] <CaptHindsight> 5ft too short
[11:17:12] <_methods> that's a beast
[11:17:57] <_methods> the tailstock is bigger than those vmc's in teh background
[11:18:54] <lair82> pcw_home cradek, This morning I did just .025" commands, at 60 IPM and it was giving me a .0235-.025 move on my indicator
[11:18:59] <CaptHindsight> need 32 rpm
[11:19:04] <ssi> I wonder what that big green bastard weighs
[11:19:08] <ssi> the max WORKPIECE weight is 154klb
[11:19:41] <ssi> 443hp
[11:19:42] <zeeshan|2> non slant bed
[11:19:43] <zeeshan|2> no want
[11:19:45] <ssi> lol
[11:20:03] <zeeshan|2> thats a bit less than the rx7!
[11:20:12] <zeeshan|2> boss status
[11:20:23] <ssi> about what my 2.0l VW made :P
[11:20:31] <CaptHindsight> Approximate Machine Weight 140 Ton
[11:20:42] <zeeshan|2> yea i wouldnt be approximating weight
[11:20:45] <zeeshan|2> at that level
[11:20:48] <pcw_home> assuming your tuning is close (sufficent P) a 1.5 mill static error is pretty large
[11:20:50] <zeeshan|2> you need some proper equipment to move that
[11:20:53] <CaptHindsight> http://shubmachinery.com/machine/ikegai-tnc-125s-cnc-4-way-bed-heavy-duty-lathe/
[11:21:07] <ssi> zeeshan|2: nah who needs a rigger
[11:21:12] <ssi> I'll rent a truck and a crane it'll be fine
[11:21:14] <ssi> what could go wrong
[11:21:16] <zeeshan|2> :D
[11:21:47] <pcw_home> lair82: was this problem always there or did it just start?
[11:22:07] <lair82> I have 15 in the P value, at 18 it started oscillating
[11:22:11] <archivist> last time I moved a big one it splits in two to make it easy,
[11:22:18] <CaptHindsight> how many helium balloons are required to lift it?
[11:22:51] <lair82> It looks like its always been there, based off of the finish in the bores on the test pieces we were running friday
[11:23:38] <archivist> CaptHindsight, we moved this on a normal 40 ton truck http://www.claymills.org.uk/tour/p1010345.jpg
[11:23:48] <CaptHindsight> I wonder what the accuracy is
[11:24:11] <archivist> to a chalk mark
[11:24:19] <CaptHindsight> archivist: yeah, not a problem if you know what you are doing
[11:24:45] <CaptHindsight> this will be the worlds biggest inkjet
[11:24:56] <archivist> I help turn a wooden pattern on it, entertaining
[11:26:30] <archivist> original image http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2001/2001_09_27_Claymills_Open_Day/P1010345.JPG
[11:29:03] <pcw_home> lair82: I would measure the sine/cosine AC voltages at the 7I49 inputs. my guess is its still overloaded
[11:29:05] <pcw_home> (or there's a mechnical or motor ( brush? ) issue of some kind
[11:29:19] <ssi> lair82: I take it you have no scope?
[11:32:00] <lair82> nope, just my fluke 179 meter
[11:33:17] <lair82> Been thinking about getting one, guess I need to think harder.
[11:34:10] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1102E-Oscilloscope-Channels-Sampling/dp/B001VKCJ0M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1434471108&sr=8-2&keywords=oscilloscope
[11:34:13] <ssi> overnight
[11:35:23] <pcw_home> The fluke will do though
[11:52:08] <lair82> pcw_home, I tried to check the voltages yesterday, and I was getting around 2.1 volts across the resolver drive +/- pins, but could not get an accurate voltage on the sine/cosine inputs. While the resolver is rotating, regardless of speed, I should be getting the same voltage back in, correct?
[11:56:56] <pcw_home> If you have 2.1V across the resolver rotor on channels 3,4 or 5 you must have the 7I49 jumpered for 2:1 resolvers rather than 1:1
[11:57:52] <pcw_home> (if you dont have a scope, you need to measure the sine/cosine voltages with the axis stopped)
[12:02:13] <ssi> god these rigol scopes are actually really nice
[12:02:18] <ssi> looking at the DS1054Z now, the newer one
[12:02:24] <ssi> http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1054Z/dp/B00N222I6C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434471394&sr=8-1&keywords=rigol+DS1054Z
[12:03:23] <lair82> I just went out and looked, 2.1MV DC on the drive pins, W2 Jumper is down,
[12:04:15] <Connor> I just picked up a Tektronix 475 O-Scope for $50.00 yesterday.
[12:04:45] <lair82> pcw_home, I show .9-1.0 MV on the #0 and #1 resolver connector drive pins.
[12:04:59] <pcw_home> ACV is what we want
[12:05:11] <pcw_home> not DC
[12:05:17] <lair82> OOOOHHHHHHH, be right back
[12:05:35] <Rab> Connor, nice scope! Top end of a classic line.
[12:06:16] <Connor> Took a gamble.. it was at a thrift store. It powers up and shows shows a dot in the middle of the screen..
[12:06:25] <ssi> is it in X/Y mode?
[12:06:27] <Connor> Didn't have a source to hook up to it.
[12:06:41] <jdh> I sold my 465b and bought a cheap chinese one
[12:06:46] <Rab> Connor, there should be an internal probe calibration source.
[12:07:06] <Connor> Yea.. kinda hard to figure out in the thrift store.. I'll play with it later tonight.
[12:07:29] <Rab> Yep, the little "handle" to the bottom right of the screen.
[12:07:47] <Connor> yea. I saw it.
[12:08:03] <jdh> a probe helps for that also
[12:08:17] <Connor> It had all the probes and stuff
[12:08:27] <Connor> In a pouch on top of the unit.
[12:08:58] <Connor> http://thestuffwebuild.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DSC_0077.jpg
[12:09:01] <Connor> just like that.
[12:09:30] <lair82_> pcw-home, 1.02 VAC on the drive, 1.17VAC on cosine, and 500 MVAC on the sine
[12:09:32] <cradek> how are 465 and 475 different?
[12:09:55] <Rab> 100MHz vs 200MHz IIRC.
[12:09:58] <cradek> ahh
[12:10:36] <Connor> http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/tektronix/oscilloscopes/tek465seriesspecs.htm
[12:10:44] <cradek> I really like my 2232
[12:11:01] <lair82_> mispelled pcw_home, 1.02 VAC on the drive, 1.17VAC on cosine, and 500 MVAC on the sine
[12:11:14] <cradek> it has a bit of digital storage, but if you don't need storage mode it's a full normal analog scope with no digital stuff in the way
[12:11:29] <cradek> it's the best of every world
[12:13:34] <ssi> I have a similar scope
[12:13:38] <ssi> also a tds420 and tds340
[12:13:44] <ssi> and I'm ordering that rigol 1054z now
[12:14:30] <Connor> I have a Parallax USB Oscilloscope too
[12:17:01] <pcw_home> lair82_ thats 1.27v RMS so overloads the 7I49 inputs slightly
[12:18:16] <lair82_> How did you get 1.27?
[12:18:26] <pcw_home> so your resolvers have a greater than 1:1 ratio
[12:18:46] <lair82_> And I guess what is a possible solution?
[12:19:01] <lair82_> New Resolvers
[12:19:05] <pcw_home> sqrt (0.5^2 _ 1.17^2)
[12:19:26] <pcw_home> sqrt (0.5^2 + 1.17^2)
[12:19:48] <pcw_home> Either a 7I49HV or a couple resistors
[12:23:33] <lair82_> I have a bag of these, http://www.newark.com/nte-electronics/hw310/resistor-10kohm-500mw-2-axial/dp/33C4880?ost=hw310 will they work?
[12:24:19] <pcw_home> also fixable with new firmware if I had half a day free (which I dont)
[12:25:44] <pcw_home> No you would need say a 50 and a 100 ohm resistor to divide the resolver exitation voltage
[12:26:58] <pcw_home> you might be able to just use a series resisitor in the drive but thats likely in the 50 to 300 ohm range
[12:30:48] <lair82_> So wire the resistor in, in series with the resolver drive positive wire?
[12:31:54] <lair82_> pcw_home, what is the limit then on the voltage?
[12:33:24] <pcw_home> maximum input voltage in sine and cosine is 1V RMS (2.8V P-P)
[12:33:34] <cradek> be aware you can rotate it so one output is zero, and then you only have one thing to measure as you adjust your resistors
[12:34:03] <pcw_home> Yes or use the magic math
[12:35:20] <pcw_home> I _should_ add startup AGC to the resolver firmware sigh...
[12:38:47] <lair82_> pcw_home what is the availability of the7i49HV?
[12:39:00] <lair82_> I don't see it on the website
[12:41:10] <pcw_home> I think we made them specifically for CHNCs ( some of which have 1:2 resolvers)
[12:41:23] <ssi> yeah I used one on my HNC
[12:42:20] <pcw_home> we have at least 10 or so in stock
[12:42:47] <ssi> pcw_home: I should have my 7i90 and 8i20 this week... I'll likely need some guidance coming up with a firmware for the 7i90 for commutation conversion
[12:43:15] <lair82_> I don't mind going with the resistors, just knowing how to put them in, and what resistance
[12:44:04] <CaptHindsight> https://www.surplusrecord.com/listphotos/874497.jpg 108" x 360" Putnam lathe
[12:44:38] <CaptHindsight> _methods: ever use a Hankook Lathe? http://www.hankookamerica.com/dynaturn-2026/
[12:44:47] <lair82_> pcw_home what power rating would suffice?
[12:45:28] <pcw_home> lair82_ I wouldget a 47 ohm, 100 ohm , 220 ohm and 330 ohm and try them in series with the resolver drive (makes no difference which side)
[12:45:36] <pcw_home> 1/4w is fine
[12:45:58] <pcw_home> a 1K pot could be used also
[12:47:04] <pcw_home> I really should fix the firmware so it at least works when the resolver is not right (not optimally but overloading is bad)
[12:48:42] <pcw_home> (as you have noticed)
[12:48:49] <lair82_> Its not an issue, the data off of the resolvers was marginal at best, we were shooting from the hip, we just never manage to hit the target, and now I know how to check them, to see if they are compatible
[12:49:40] <pcw_home> yeah the 7I49H woudl have just worked
[12:57:27] <_methods> CaptHindsight: no i've never used them before
[12:58:00] <_methods> only really big cnc lathe i've ever used is a Fagor
[12:58:18] <_methods> you really in the market for a lathe that size?
[12:58:44] <_methods> poreba is kinda the game to beat in machines that size
[12:58:55] <_methods> they pretty much dominate the large market
[12:59:22] <_methods> they're like okuma in the regular sized machine world
[13:05:39] <lair82_> pcw_home, just ordered a variety of resistors, be a day or so from Newark, see what kind of trouble I can get into when they come in.
[13:06:02] <lair82_> At least I know a starting point of whats wrong.
[13:06:41] <lair82_> Do you think I still need to re-tune the machine, or start with what I had originally?
[13:08:51] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I need it for the bed, carriage, head and tailstock
[13:09:18] <_methods> wtf you up to?
[13:09:31] <CaptHindsight> worlds largest hybrid inkjet 3D printer
[13:09:41] <pcw_home> The tuning process shoud be easier when you are not fighting periodic sensor errors
[13:10:21] <pcw_home> Chuck up that Toyota and have at it
[13:11:07] <_methods> you going to turn it into a VTL lol
[13:11:11] <_methods> VTL 3d printer
[13:11:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2015/03/02/forbes-billionaires-full-list-of-the-500-richest-people-in-the-world-2015/
[13:11:48] <SpeedEvil> 21. Georg Schaeffler
[13:11:48] <SpeedEvil> Net Worth: $26.9 B
[13:11:48] <SpeedEvil> Source of wealth: ball bearings
[13:12:42] <ssi> http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/blogs/80s/53342.jpg
[13:12:45] <ssi> it's all ball bearings these days
[13:13:42] <CaptHindsight> _methods: it's horizontal
[13:17:04] <_methods> horizontal 3d printer?
[13:20:16] <CaptHindsight> _methods: prints cylindrical parts
[13:20:43] <CaptHindsight> 7.5m long by 1.5m dia , 6 tons
[13:26:20] <_methods> triple comma baby
[13:50:50] * Loetmichel2 thinks the green on the balcony gets slightly out of hand... wife seems to have quite a "green thumb" ... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15835
[14:09:19] <CaptHindsight> _methods: just spoke to the Poreba guys, they seemed the most apathetic
[14:11:32] <_methods> yeah usually the big guys are
[14:11:44] <_methods> try and get the okuma guys to come talk to you about 1 machine lol
[14:11:55] <_methods> if you want to buy 20 they'll be right orver
[14:12:41] <CaptHindsight> I'm looking for one now with more to follow
[14:13:07] <Computer_barf> loetmichel2: any of those edible plants?
[14:13:11] <CaptHindsight> 8m x 1.5m, next 10 might be 2m x 1m
[14:13:28] <Computer_barf> i can only ever relate to growing things that produce something for me
[14:13:58] <CaptHindsight> what baffles everyone is how I don't want and can't use their Fanuc or Seimens controls
[14:14:00] <_methods> well the most aggressive sales guys are usually haas
[14:14:13] <_methods> they'll take you out for snow cones if you say the word haas
[14:14:15] <CaptHindsight> I didn't Haas going that large
[14:14:23] <_methods> they do but i'd never buy one
[14:14:23] <CaptHindsight> but I'm making the usual calls
[14:14:34] <_methods> we bought a haas horizontal that get sent back
[14:14:50] <_methods> i wouldn't buy a haas unless i was just machining plastic or something like that
[14:14:53] <_methods> fudge
[14:14:53] <CaptHindsight> but I do enjoy the "know it all" attitudes of some of the salespeople
[14:15:10] <_methods> doosan i thinkis the best bang for the buck
[14:15:14] <CaptHindsight> and then they become speechless when I tell them how we use it
[14:15:18] <_methods> they make great machines at great prices
[14:16:04] <CaptHindsight> the cutting tool is replaced by 25,000 nozzles with 8 bit resolution each firing up to 40,000 second
[14:16:18] <_methods> but money is no object is DMG/mori, Okuma
[14:16:24] <_methods> and poreba
[14:16:29] <_methods> for that large stuff
[14:16:29] <CaptHindsight> "oh yeah, I guess a Fanuc can't do that"
[14:16:41] <ssi> lol
[14:17:12] <_methods> well i don't think you'll find many large lathes that sized geared for that kind of super precision
[14:17:24] <CaptHindsight> Hankook
[14:17:28] <_methods> since you're really not using the machine in it's intended application
[14:17:58] <CaptHindsight> Toolmex
[14:18:08] <_methods> you'd probably be much better off desinging something specific to you
[14:18:26] <CaptHindsight> they hold 0.001" over 25ft
[14:18:55] <CaptHindsight> I found a dealer with one machine in stock
[14:18:57] <_methods> well the poreba should hold that all day
[14:19:19] <CaptHindsight> actually it's even bigger
[14:19:39] <_methods> toolmex makes machines?
[14:19:47] <_methods> i just thought they sold cheap tools lol
[14:20:57] <CaptHindsight> it's a waste of motors but a linear servo and laser can track the surface and adjust the distance of the nozzles
[14:21:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toolmex.com/cb-Machines/TV115.aspx
[14:21:11] <_methods> yeah i'm checkin them out now
[14:21:13] <CaptHindsight> TUR4MN European Built 4-Way Step-Bed Lathes Up to 78" swing over bed x 630" BC and 140 HP
[14:21:34] <_methods> yeah i'm pretty sure it's a rebadged fagor
[14:21:55] <CaptHindsight> I'll find out soon enough
[14:22:17] <CaptHindsight> the nice thing about Chicago is that most have a sales office here
[14:22:39] <_methods> ahh i think they are polamco
[14:23:55] <_methods> i guess they're pretty good lathes
[14:24:10] <_methods> comparable to porebas
[14:25:25] <CaptHindsight> Okuma doesn't seem to go big enough
[14:25:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.okuma.com/multus-b750?ms=1&ms_query=s%3A97%3A%22category%3D4925%26m%3D0%26Chuck%2BSize%2B%28in%29%3D%26Turn%2BDiameter%2B%28in%29%3D%26Turning%2BLength%2B%28in%29%3D257%26Bar%2BDiameter%2B%28in%29%3D%22%3B
[14:26:00] <_methods> you'll probably have to call them on a machien that size
[14:40:35] <CaptHindsight> _methods: they all have broken voicemail
[14:40:47] <CaptHindsight> 13 calls to find someone
[14:48:50] <Computer_barf> making french onion soup
[14:49:23] <Computer_barf> drinking homebrewed hard cider
[14:49:40] <Computer_barf> cncing some hooks with my mill
[14:54:54] <_methods> ah good so you got it to post good enough to get up and running?
[14:55:36] <Computer_barf> yeah
[14:55:58] <Computer_barf> it still raises up a bit before it starts, but then goes back to home
[14:56:03] <Computer_barf> but i can remove that manually if need be
[14:56:20] <Computer_barf> at least its no longer wanting to run past the top of z
[14:56:33] <Computer_barf> probably has something to do with settings in solidcam
[14:57:09] <_methods> yes it will probably be your "approach/safe" height
[14:57:11] <_methods> or something like that
[14:57:13] <Computer_barf> thanks for all the help btw
[14:57:15] <_methods> np
[14:57:29] <_methods> i don't have solidcam so i'm not sure where that setting will be
[15:00:06] <_methods> ahh tool start level
[15:00:27] <_methods> in the coordsys data toolbox
[15:01:22] <_methods> looks like that toolbox is in your part setup area
[15:01:29] <_methods> part definition
[15:04:07] <furrywolf> I really need to find+learn cad+cam...
[15:04:18] <ssi> you and me both
[15:04:46] <XXCoder> yeah
[15:04:48] <furrywolf> ssi: I might be in a position to buy a 7i76e in a couple weeks... got some on hand?
[15:04:52] <XXCoder> me too
[15:05:18] <ssi> no I don't have any 7i76es
[15:05:22] <furrywolf> it annoys me much when zee thinks of something, then 2 minutes later has a completely rendered and FEAed model of it. :P
[15:05:52] <XXCoder> hes definitely expert on that part yeah
[15:05:54] <furrywolf> going to have some in stock soon?
[15:07:52] <furrywolf> is there anything I'll need to purchase to use it? from what I can gather rtfming, I just need to hook up my 24v supply, stepper drivers, and switches, and it magically works.
[15:07:58] <ssi> what do I look like, the mesa store? :P
[15:08:49] <XXCoder> what, you arent??
[15:08:53] <furrywolf> hrmm, for some reason I thought you worked with them. I'll bug pcw. :P
[15:08:57] <ssi> :)
[15:09:05] <ssi> nope, I'm just an unapologetic fanboy
[15:09:14] * furrywolf has lost track of how many people here are employed there. :P
[15:09:22] <ssi> pcw is the only one I'm aware of
[15:10:45] <alex4nder> furrywolf: I just setup a 7i76e.. it was stupid-simple
[15:11:35] <XXCoder> wow stupidest web design I ever seen
[15:11:43] <ffurrywol> I hate my connection.,
[15:11:44] <XXCoder> https://www.fairphone.com/phone/
[15:11:52] <alex4nder> ffurrywol: I just setup a 7i76e.. it was stupid-simple
[15:12:11] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: very similar to 7i77
[15:12:19] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: nasa.gov
[15:12:19] <zeeshan|2> just read through the manual quickly
[15:12:24] <zeeshan|2> two ways to blow it up
[15:12:27] <zeeshan|2> having the jumpers wrong
[15:12:35] <zeeshan|2> and putting 24vdc where it's not supposed to go :P
[15:12:36] <ffurrywol> XXCoder: all I get is a box saying "Hmm… this seems to be taking too long" LOL
[15:12:37] <zeeshan|2> 3 ways
[15:12:41] <zeeshan|2> reverse polarity on the enable
[15:12:55] <PetefromTn_> hey folks
[15:12:59] <zeeshan|2> hi
[15:13:00] <ssi> hey pete
[15:13:05] <_methods> wow
[15:13:05] <XXCoder> ffurrywol: it takes 2 minutes to load on my site. website-wise speaking, insanely long
[15:13:06] <PetefromTn_> howzitgoin?
[15:13:08] <_methods> long time no see
[15:13:10] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: teach me to machine 304 SS
[15:13:17] <XXCoder> hey PetefromTn_
[15:13:28] <PetefromTn_> I will if you tell me what I should order to make some exhaust flanges!
[15:13:38] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:13:40] <PetefromTn_> I got a guy local here that wants a buncha them
[15:13:41] <zeeshan|2> for what?
[15:13:43] <ffurrywol> is it open enough to run a non-android linux distro?
[15:13:50] <PetefromTn_> just mild steel I guess?
[15:14:06] <ffurrywol> yes
[15:14:10] <ssi> ffurrywol: the 7i76e?
[15:14:21] <ffurrywol> no, the fairphone xxcoder pasted
[15:14:22] <ssi> it's just an fpga... you're not gonna run a linux distro on it
[15:14:24] <ssi> oh
[15:14:32] <zeeshan|2> i use mild steel flanges
[15:14:34] <PetefromTn_> I would think cold rolled would warp when tig welded pretty good
[15:14:36] <zeeshan|2> they won't warp in service
[15:14:38] <XXCoder> good question, fur.
[15:14:44] <ffurrywol> are you sure you can't run linux on it? you can get downloadable fpga arm cores... :P
[15:14:45] <zeeshan|2> use hot roll
[15:14:57] <PetefromTn_> is that what you did just machined hot roll?
[15:15:02] <zeeshan|2> yes
[15:15:08] <PetefromTn_> sweet nice and cheap
[15:15:12] <ssi> might be tractable, but not practical
[15:15:16] <XXCoder> ffurrywol: techinically though its already linux, android runs on linux
[15:15:26] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: i tried to make them out of 304 stainless
[15:15:36] <zeeshan|2> but i broke 2 3/8" tialn carbide end mills
[15:15:38] <zeeshan|2> yg1
[15:15:38] <ffurrywol> XXCoder: yes, which is why I specified "non-android linux", rather than just "linux".
[15:15:39] <zeeshan|2> gave up
[15:15:47] <PetefromTn_> damn I like those
[15:15:47] <zeeshan|2> i was clearly doing something wrong
[15:16:01] <zeeshan|2> that is why i need to know the exact parameters to machine it at
[15:16:03] <PetefromTn_> looking at like 30 or so of them
[15:16:03] <XXCoder> oh yea you did say that
[15:16:06] <zeeshan|2> cause it's silly sensitive to failure
[15:16:12] <XXCoder> sorry woke up short time ago lol
[15:16:29] <ssi> PetefromTn_: the guy that makes exhausts for RVs uses 321 tubing and 304 flanges
[15:16:33] <PetefromTn_> didja just buy flat bar or plate and cut it?
[15:16:35] <ffurrywol> android generally has a heavy dependency of binary blobs, something I do not like in my linux.
[15:16:57] <ffurrywol> waterjet the stainless?
[15:17:04] <PetefromTn_> sweet man I suppose you don't want rust in your airplane exhaust LOL
[15:17:19] <ssi> plenty of them are mild, but the stainless ones are nice
[15:17:36] <PetefromTn_> this guy wants mild steel so hot rolled it is I guess...
[15:17:46] <PetefromTn_> working on the drawing now...
[15:17:52] <_methods> how thick?
[15:17:53] <zeeshan|2> what car?
[15:18:00] <PetefromTn_> 1/2 inch
[15:18:12] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan it's a secret ;)
[15:18:16] <_methods> od/id?
[15:18:20] <zeeshan|2> i migght have drawing for u already
[15:18:21] <ffurrywol> there's an airplane at the local field that looks like it should be pretty damn cheap... it's been sitting for at least 6 years, the tires are all flat, the tarp they had over it shredded years ago, and now it has a healthy layer of moss... one of these days I should ask who owns it, and ask if they want it gone. :P
[15:18:24] <zeeshan|2> i have like 90+ flange drawings
[15:18:28] <zeeshan|2> for diff engines
[15:18:29] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah
[15:18:30] <PetefromTn_> nice
[15:18:48] <ssi> ffurrywol: the reason planes like that stay derelict is because it'll cost more to get them airworthy than they're worth, by a large margin
[15:18:55] <PetefromTn_> this is gonna be for the 2 and 3 rotor RX7's
[15:18:59] <zeeshan|2> 4g69, 13b, 4g63/4g64, lq9, sbc,
[15:19:06] <zeeshan|2> i has for 13b!
[15:19:08] <zeeshan|2> no 3 rotor though
[15:19:12] <zeeshan|2> i can send, save you some time
[15:19:15] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[15:19:17] <_methods> you just going to saw blanks and face/bore?
[15:19:18] <PetefromTn_> thanks dude
[15:19:27] <PetefromTn_> probably
[15:19:42] <PetefromTn_> decked on both sides and drilled/ tapered bore
[15:19:50] <ffurrywol> ssi: I live in an area where vehicles are considered roadworthy if they use more gasoline than oil and have at least 3/4 of their tires.... planes are the same, right? :P
[15:19:51] * ffurrywol hides
[15:19:59] <PetefromTn_> they are also wanting them engraved
[15:20:06] <_methods> ah fun
[15:20:08] <ssi> sure so long as you don't mind violating the FARs
[15:20:23] <PetefromTn_> relieved on back too
[15:20:38] <PetefromTn_> so definitely two sides and needing fixturing
[15:20:43] <_methods> your lathe up?
[15:20:49] <PetefromTn_> SHIT NO!
[15:20:51] <_methods> ugh
[15:20:58] <zeeshan|2> you need 6" flat bar
[15:21:00] <zeeshan|2> 9" long
[15:21:02] <PetefromTn_> working on it tho
[15:21:03] <zeeshan|2> for 2 rotor
[15:21:05] <PetefromTn_> yup
[15:21:16] <PetefromTn_> I got 5.893
[15:21:22] <zeeshan|2> yes
[15:21:35] <PetefromTn_> have you made any?
[15:21:43] <zeeshan|2> yes
[15:21:47] <zeeshan|2> thats pretty close pete
[15:21:49] <PetefromTn_> PICS!!
[15:21:51] <zeeshan|2> i have 5.860
[15:22:11] <PetefromTn_> actually I measured another flange they bought from someone else
[15:22:30] <PetefromTn_> so I need to compare to the exhaust manifold I have here to go from
[15:22:37] <furrywolf> I was thinking of making fancy headers for my truck, then I found someone with a stock exhaust manifold, and decided that was much, much easier.
[15:22:39] <zeeshan|2> whats your email
[15:23:08] <zeeshan|2> can you open stl
[15:23:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:23:26] <furrywolf> I still haven't gotten around to putting it on, though... need to fill my torch tanks to get the nuts off.
[15:23:27] <PetefromTn_> a simple .dxf is fine tho
[15:23:27] <zeeshan|2> i think stp might be better
[15:23:31] <zeeshan|2> oh
[15:23:40] <PetefromTn_> dead simple part
[15:24:20] <PetefromTn_> listenin' to Norah Jones on the Onkyo wile the machine is running.... beautiful!!
[15:24:46] <PetefromTn_> the voice of an angel literally..
[15:25:38] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Hey man I told them about your bored TB
[15:26:05] <PetefromTn_> Thanks man!!
[15:26:16] <zeeshan|2> np
[15:26:24] <zeeshan|2> the port is made for 2" schedule 40 pipe
[15:26:31] <PetefromTn_> gotcha
[15:26:36] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: make them give you tb's to port
[15:26:37] <PetefromTn_> I will check with them on the diameter
[15:26:58] <PetefromTn_> They actually wanted to know if I could design and machine a big bore TB custom from scratch
[15:27:07] <PetefromTn_> never made one before
[15:27:10] <zeeshan|2> ooo
[15:27:12] <furrywolf> I need a catback for my subie, but that needs bending, not machining.
[15:27:13] <zeeshan|2> that'd be a sweet project
[15:27:19] <PetefromTn_> yeah it would..
[15:27:30] <zeeshan|2> those go for about 400-500bux
[15:27:30] <PetefromTn_> I need to get a decent boring head
[15:27:31] <zeeshan|2> usd
[15:28:17] <PetefromTn_> was gonna beg borrow and steal that sick sweet antique one from someone on here ;)
[15:28:49] <PetefromTn_> I have been working on some cool stuff with those guys lately...
[15:29:02] <zeeshan|2> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/turbo1-1.jpg
[15:29:07] <zeeshan|2> that was the stainless one i did for my car
[15:29:11] <zeeshan|2> (will never do it again)
[15:29:12] <PetefromTn_> they are working on a hopefully 1k HP three rotor build right now... It's a sickass monster....
[15:29:36] <zeeshan|2> nice
[15:30:01] <PetefromTn_> I gotta say that the big HP rotary motors sound frackin' sick and give me a woodie LOL
[15:30:22] <zeeshan|2> i really wanna own a plasma cutter for flanges
[15:30:31] <ssi> zeeshan|2: come use mine
[15:30:33] <zeeshan|2> it took me too long to make these
[15:30:37] <PetefromTn_> they had a customers three rotor in there the other day and doing some dyno tuning...
[15:30:41] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/tiN7adw.jpg
[15:30:44] <zeeshan|2> estimate the time that took
[15:30:53] <zeeshan|2> using 3/8 4flute
[15:31:17] <PetefromTn_> sounds like a formula one car or something on full boost....
[15:31:19] <zeeshan|2> ssi we're building one right now :P
[15:31:34] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: these guys must be really good
[15:31:37] <zeeshan|2> if they're building 3 rotors
[15:31:41] <zeeshan|2> those arent cheap
[15:31:44] <PetefromTn_> they are not messing around...
[15:31:52] <furrywolf> good and rich aren't always related.
[15:32:05] <furrywolf> I've seen total idiots throw lots of money at car parts.
[15:32:13] <furrywolf> we call them "growers" :P
[15:32:15] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: 3 rotors arent cheap
[15:32:19] <PetefromTn_> that one had a MILD tune and only made 770hp which is what the customer wanted
[15:32:21] <zeeshan|2> and they are sweet
[15:32:25] <zeeshan|2> they can easily make 650 hp
[15:32:34] <zeeshan|2> at like 14psi with a gt42r
[15:32:48] <zeeshan|2> and last about 20,000 miles
[15:32:48] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:32:52] <PetefromTn_> the one they are custom building now is a shop car and they want a 1k pump gas car...we'll see..
[15:34:54] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: have you milled 304
[15:35:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:35:02] <zeeshan|2> like made something completely out ofit
[15:35:13] <zeeshan|2> say from a block of 2"x4"x4" billet
[15:35:16] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean
[15:35:28] <zeeshan|2> okay lemme talk about that flange
[15:35:32] <zeeshan|2> so i was machining that exact flange out of stainless
[15:35:40] <PetefromTn_> well I have machined some flanges and some plate stock and also made my little flycutter LOL
[15:35:43] <zeeshan|2> doing .125" doc, .375 width of cut
[15:35:57] <zeeshan|2> 0.0015 ipt , 300sfm
[15:36:15] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/Jr6ZNXS.jpg
[15:36:19] <zeeshan|2> and i broke the end mill when circular interpolating to make the bores
[15:36:22] <zeeshan|2> then i broke one doing a contour
[15:36:27] <JT-Shop> if you were computer challenged and had only windoze what IRC software would you use
[15:36:35] <zeeshan|2> mirc
[15:36:35] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: hexchat
[15:36:52] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: wtf
[15:36:55] <zeeshan|2> is that a custom machined rotor?
[15:36:56] <zeeshan|2> is that a custom machined rotor?
[15:36:56] <zeeshan|2> is that a custom machined rotor?
[15:37:00] <XXCoder> easy to port to linux too since hexchat exists in there too
[15:37:06] <PetefromTn_> I'm TOTALLY computer challenged and using andchat
[15:37:13] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 YUP!
[15:37:14] <_methods> JT-Shop: kiwiirc
[15:37:15] <zeeshan|2> WOW
[15:37:16] <zeeshan|2> nice
[15:37:19] <zeeshan|2> that must be $$$$$
[15:37:23] <PetefromTn_> very
[15:37:27] <ssi> are tehy heat treating after machining?
[15:37:29] <zeeshan|2> you did that?
[15:37:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:37:38] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: wankel?
[15:37:39] <zeeshan|2> nice dude
[15:37:45] <PetefromTn_> no heat treating necessary apparently
[15:38:00] <PetefromTn_> but they are getting them balanced as an assembly to 40krpm
[15:38:05] <zeeshan|2> no need for heat treating on the rotor
[15:38:07] <zeeshan|2> except gear
[15:38:09] <zeeshan|2> but that shit bolts on
[15:38:13] <JT-Shop> thanks
[15:38:17] <ssi> hm
[15:38:26] <ssi> what's the rotor made of?
[15:38:26] <zeeshan|2> youre thinking of the rotor housing ssi
[15:38:26] <PetefromTn_> they seem pretty tickled with them so far
[15:38:31] <zeeshan|2> aluminum
[15:38:35] <ssi> crazy
[15:38:38] <zeeshan|2> i think :P
[15:38:41] <PetefromTn_> these are cast
[15:38:42] <zeeshan|2> it's heavyu though
[15:39:11] <PetefromTn_> they have to be within 50 grams before they will balance them
[15:39:20] <PetefromTn_> so I try to get them what they need.
[15:39:27] <PetefromTn_> Doing a 3 rotor setup now....
[15:39:37] <PetefromTn_> ya like the little engraving?
[15:39:40] <zeeshan|2> yes
[15:39:42] <zeeshan|2> thats nice man
[15:39:46] <zeeshan|2> i also like the tool path marks
[15:39:49] <zeeshan|2> very nicely done
[15:39:53] <PetefromTn_> they are also clearanced
[15:39:55] <CaptHindsight> _methods: Toolmex Lathes are Haco FAT Lathes
[15:40:09] <PetefromTn_> thanks man it was a bitch to get it sorted
[15:40:19] <furrywolf> you made those rotors? you have substantially superior machining skills. :)
[15:40:23] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: you can share rotary stuff with me
[15:40:30] <zeeshan|2> i'll never touch a rotary again
[15:40:30] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:40:37] <zeeshan|2> =]
[15:40:41] <PetefromTn_> screwed up two of them the first we went too deep and the next time I got the curvature wrong
[15:40:53] <PetefromTn_> no I did not make them
[15:41:01] <PetefromTn_> I just machined and lightened them and engraved them
[15:41:15] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: the stock rotor is flat there
[15:41:17] <PetefromTn_> they are stock rx7 Rotary motor rotors
[15:41:29] <furrywolf> ah
[15:41:35] <zeeshan|2> it looks nothing as good as pete's does
[15:41:35] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:41:41] <PetefromTn_> we are removing something like 200 grams
[15:41:42] <furrywolf> in that case you only have somewhat superior machining skills. :P
[15:41:51] * furrywolf hides
[15:41:54] <CaptHindsight> _methods: http://imagebin.ca/v/25TBe3wUK6pC
[15:41:56] <PetefromTn_> shit I'm a hack with good friends
[15:42:15] <PetefromTn_> HOLY SMOKES!
[15:42:20] <PetefromTn_> that is a bigass CNC lathe
[15:42:36] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 I know you are over the rotary motors
[15:42:51] <PetefromTn_> but ya gotta admit DAMN they sound awesome when they are working right....
[15:42:52] <furrywolf> I really need to finish my machine... but everything is so expensive!
[15:42:57] <zeeshan|2> yes
[15:43:18] <XXCoder> PetefromTn_: is those for engine type called wankel or is there different name
[15:43:20] <furrywolf> dunno, I prefer the sound of the flat subaru motors.
[15:43:29] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: lol
[15:43:36] <furrywolf> XXCoder: yes, wankel
[15:43:41] <XXCoder> ok
[15:43:49] <zeeshan|2> honestly i love v8, flat and rotary anyday
[15:43:50] <zeeshan|2> noise wise
[15:43:51] <zeeshan|2> equally
[15:43:53] <PetefromTn_> It was funny I pulled out of their shop the other day and they pulled alongside me in their shop car and put the hammer down... FUUUUUCCCCKKKK does that thing sound amazing when it is leaving you nothing but taillights.
[15:44:00] <zeeshan|2> anything beats a 4 banger fart can
[15:44:01] <ssi> boost ----> ∆ ------> apex seals
[15:44:06] <zeeshan|2> inline
[15:44:10] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:44:20] <CaptHindsight> _methods: http://imagebin.ca/v/25TCKDCv7u9O H FAT
[15:44:25] <_methods> yeah
[15:44:49] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: you're a car person... how do I get more low-end torque out of my subaru ej22? I'm willing to sacrafice top-end for low-end.
[15:44:50] <_methods> big boy
[15:45:04] <PetefromTn_> There is a guy apparently nearby here that has a rotary big single turbo VW bug that is supposed to be stupid fast.
[15:45:20] <furrywolf> I miss my old engine with peak torque at 1800 rpm, that'll lug itself up a hill at idle...
[15:45:32] <PetefromTn_> I am still carless here LOL
[15:45:34] <furrywolf> the ej22 is way too revvy instead of torquey.
[15:45:46] <roycroft> furrywolf: put a diesel engine in it
[15:45:51] <Computer_barf> furrywolf: pm me
[15:46:08] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: easy
[15:46:10] <zeeshan|2> BOOOSTTTTTTTTTTTt
[15:46:16] <ssi> boost makes everything better
[15:46:21] <furrywolf> I found a place that regrinds cams, but the reviews of the actual improvement weren't great...
[15:46:28] <PetefromTn_> it sure can lol
[15:46:32] <roycroft> or go ev
[15:46:37] <ssi> zeeshan|2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh2nSy33unU
[15:46:43] <zeeshan|2> but kidding aside, you need more displacement
[15:46:49] <zeeshan|2> if you're really meaning low end
[15:46:49] <roycroft> then you'll have stupid high low rpm torque
[15:46:58] <zeeshan|2> low end is like 2000 rpm to me
[15:47:01] <zeeshan|2> rofl SSI
[15:47:05] <furrywolf> turbos suck at low rpm, and superchargers are a lot of work....
[15:47:09] <CaptHindsight> what does Siemens use for the input to their 50Hp SIMOTCS servo drives? 10V analog or some proprietary digital input?
[15:47:17] <ssi> my low end is like 1200rpm
[15:47:57] <zeeshan|2> something a rotary wont have
[15:48:06] <zeeshan|2> 500ft-lb at 1800 rpm
[15:48:10] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[15:48:13] <furrywolf> the old subaru motors were built for torque. they feel like an old v8. peak torque was 1800 rpm, and it was flat on both sides of that... new one peak torque is 4500ish. heh.
[15:50:03] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: is that due to the ECU programming or small vales ports and long narrow intake paths?
[15:51:24] <furrywolf> dunno
[15:51:35] <furrywolf> it's got close to twice the horses, it just don't have them where I want them.
[15:51:48] <zeeshan|2> nawz
[15:52:00] <furrywolf> it goes those skinny fast racing horses, while I want the heavy ones with big legs that pull farm implements. :P
[15:52:14] <furrywolf> it has
[15:53:16] <ssi> that's why I drive diesel :P
[15:54:05] <CaptHindsight> Seimens Drive-CLIQ interface (eye roll)
[15:55:07] <CaptHindsight> https://www.industry.usa.siemens.com/drives/us/en/electric-drives/ac-drives/high-performance-and-servo-drives/drive-cliq-motor-drive-integration-system/Documents/DRV-Drive_CLiQ_Brochure.pdf
[15:55:14] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/9i3iE7h.jpg WANT!!
[15:55:52] <furrywolf> http://sports-web.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Horse-Racing-663x320.jpg bad. http://www.moodogpress.com/wp-content/uploads/Terry-Joseph-and-team.jpg good. :P
[15:55:52] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: did you use evapo-rust
[15:56:14] <furrywolf> I have used it in the past, yes.
[15:56:26] <furrywolf> ssi: unfortunately the subaru diesel is still ungodly expensive.
[15:56:36] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if i can neutralize the rust
[15:56:39] <zeeshan|2> on some of these tools
[15:56:42] <zeeshan|2> specifically pipe wrenches etc
[15:56:45] <zeeshan|2> they are really nice ones
[15:56:47] <zeeshan|2> worth saving
[15:57:05] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: the answer is always yes, "is it still functional after?" is the question
[15:57:08] <furrywolf> if you strip the rust off a tool, you need to paint or oil it, or it'll ruin itself in days.
[15:57:15] <PCW> If it doesn't Cliq you're up the crick?
[15:57:18] <zeeshan|2> i use bosheild t9
[15:57:31] <PetefromTn_> boeshield
[15:57:35] <zeeshan|2> BOOOOOOOOOOO
[15:57:41] <SpeedEvil> neat phosphoric acid is nice
[15:57:42] <furrywolf> PetefromTn_: eh, I'm not too into lifted vehicles... my truck has 38.5" swampers with no lift. :)
[15:58:02] <PetefromTn_> love a good crawler
[15:58:22] <ssi> I have lots of lifted vehicles
[15:58:26] <furrywolf> the only thing that crawls is the mall parking lot. :P
[15:58:45] <ssi> but it's variable lift, from 0" to thousands of inches
[15:59:04] <ssi> tens of thousands of inches
[15:59:15] <furrywolf> my next set of tires will probably be 40"... that's the biggest my truck fits without lift or trimming.
[15:59:30] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUznH1w19o8
[15:59:52] <furrywolf> I've heard you can stick 44s under if you get wheel spacers so you don't hit the springs when turning.
[16:00:47] <furrywolf> 40 is about as large as I'd go on the stock axles, though... with my 5.88 axle gears you can get a lot of torque on those shafts. :)
[16:01:09] <furrywolf> (d70 rear, d60 front)
[16:02:07] <furrywolf> I hope to get my lockers installed this summer... bought an ARB from the front and a Detroit for the rear. open diffs and 1.5ton springs are a bad combo. way too easy to sit there with a diagonal pair of wheels in the air.
[16:02:09] <furrywolf> s/from/for
[16:03:05] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O76Mb0IACsk
[16:03:15] <furrywolf> zeeshan|2: evaporust works quite well, but it is slow, and does not like any grease or oil on the parts. if it's used tools, soak them overnight in gasoline or other solvent before using the evaporust.
[16:03:28] <furrywolf> evaporust also likes being warm, 60F is a minimum.
[16:03:56] <zeeshan|2> they arent oily
[16:04:16] <furrywolf> yes, they are. you've touched them. :P
[16:04:25] <furrywolf> evaporust is very picky about oils, even skin oils.
[16:04:28] <JT-Shop> archivist, you around?
[16:04:28] <XXCoder> heh
[16:04:53] <furrywolf> I wouldn't mind a trip to moab. the rubicon is much closer to me, however.
[16:05:19] <furrywolf> my truck would probably do the rubicon pretty easily after the lockers are installed.
[16:05:26] <furrywolf> taking all the detours, of course.
[16:05:43] <furrywolf> it's way too long/wide/heavy for the boulder courses
[16:06:01] <PetefromTn_> I've wheeled the rubicon in my samurai but never moab. Also did Tellico and Royal blue/windrock
[16:06:53] <furrywolf> I've never installed an ARB before... will be my first time with one of them. I bought one for my cherokee, but it got totalled before I got it in.
[16:08:08] <furrywolf> I don't have the suspension for the boulder courses... a conservatively-rated 1.5ton truck with leaf springs all around... it's nice being able to load a jeep in the back and barely sag, but it's not good for crawling. :)
[16:08:42] <furrywolf> I have very, very little flex.
[16:09:11] <furrywolf> the 5.88 gears are great for getting two wheels in the air sooner. :)
[16:10:34] <PetefromTn_> I have built and wheeled about a half dozen suzuki samurai's as well as a jeep wrangler or two
[16:10:53] <PetefromTn_> been looking for another truck since I sold my bronco
[16:11:09] <PetefromTn_> and went to a used car lot to see what they had
[16:11:11] <furrywolf> I have a full-size truck... very different wheeling experience than my jeep.
[16:11:16] <PetefromTn_> drove a little xterra
[16:11:27] <PetefromTn_> really liked it.
[16:11:35] <PetefromTn_> I have wheeled my fullsize broncos before
[16:11:47] <PetefromTn_> just not that white one I just sold it was too pretty for that LOL
[16:12:04] <PetefromTn_> Calmini makes a bolt on SAS kit for the Xterra
[16:12:09] <furrywolf> a couple people I know have wheeled pathfinders, and were very happy with them.
[16:12:20] <PetefromTn_> drop in a dana 44 and some arb's and you got a fun little rig
[16:12:21] <furrywolf> a relative has a bronco on 44s with a 1-ton drivetrain... ford 460 engine, 4-speed manual tranny, sterling 10.5" rear, dana 60 front on a 3-link suspension.
[16:12:44] <PetefromTn_> the bronco is really too big for around here the trails are tight here.
[16:12:54] <furrywolf> detroits front and rear
[16:13:09] <PetefromTn_> if I can find a nice clean Xterra 4x4 with a 5 speed here soon I will probably grab it.
[16:13:09] <furrywolf> dana 44s are leeetle. a 60 is the smallest that should be in anything. :)
[16:13:22] <PetefromTn_> naah
[16:13:40] <PetefromTn_> even yota axles can hold up if you build/reinforce them right..
[16:13:42] <furrywolf> we broke the bronco last time we wheeled it... twisted off the front pinion. the dana 60 is the weakest link.
[16:13:53] <PetefromTn_> bronco is a heavy bastard
[16:14:10] <XXCoder> you are the weakest linke. goodbye!
[16:14:13] <furrywolf> and it was a nice $400 gear set too, not a cheapo.
[16:14:16] <furrywolf> it's even heavier when you stuff a 460 under the hood. :)
[16:14:20] <furrywolf> big blocks++
[16:14:31] <PetefromTn_> I think the X will be a good daily driver/ weekend wheeler/camping vehicle
[16:15:06] <PetefromTn_> its either that or another samurai or a wrangler and I have already done several of each of those.
[16:15:17] <furrywolf> with 5.13 gears, granny low on the manual transmission, t-case in low, and the low-end torque of the 460, it has an amazingly good idle crawl speed... you can just let it idle and it'll try climbing anything.
[16:16:01] <CaptHindsight> PCW: Siemens uses the RESOLUTE encoder interface as well
[16:16:04] <furrywolf> with the stock tires on my truck, on dirt, you could drive it into a tree, slowly let the clutch out at idle, and it'd just sit there slowly spinning the wheels... not once I put the swampers on it. :)
[16:16:12] * furrywolf loves >5 gears
[16:16:17] <PetefromTn_> my zuks had 5.30 gears, a 6.5-1 tcase and in low on 35's you can get out and walk alongside it SLOWLY...
[16:16:38] <CaptHindsight> http://w3.siemens.com/mcms/mc-solutions/en/converters/low-voltage-converters/sinamics-s/motion-control-drives/Pages/sinamics-s120-system-architecture.aspx?tabcardname=sinamics%20drive-cliq
[16:17:01] <furrywolf> I have 5.88, but stock t-case gears. can't remember what it is right now. my tranny has a granny low first that you don't normally use when driving, which helps a lot for crawling.
[16:17:57] <furrywolf> it's 1.7:1 or something in the t-case
[16:18:13] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am familiar with ford granny gears..
[16:18:21] <furrywolf> I don't have a ford. :)
[16:18:34] <PetefromTn_> oh sorry I thought you said it was a ford
[16:18:36] <furrywolf> only ford I have right now is my van, and it's 2wd automatic.
[16:18:48] <furrywolf> no, a relative has a bronco... I have a jeep m715.
[16:20:59] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GlgU0oRoU8 I'm likin' these...
[16:21:51] <furrywolf> if the xterra is like a pathfinder, they wheel surprisingly well
[16:22:16] <PetefromTn_> read one build where a guy used the james duff bronco arms on a D44 in the front and built everything else. seemed to work well.
[16:22:17] <furrywolf> the person I knew who wheeled one fit a snorkel on it, and we once got water a couple inches up the windshield by accident. we were very glad we'd built the snorkel then!
[16:22:45] <furrywolf> we made a wrong turn on a logging road, and one of the puddles was just a weeee bit deeper than the others.
[16:22:50] <PetefromTn_> pathy's are decent with an SAS just like the Xterra
[16:23:07] <furrywolf> I really wouldn't put a d44 in anything heavier than a wrangler...
[16:23:33] <PetefromTn_> hell my Dodge ram came with a D44 front LOL
[16:23:50] <furrywolf> and guess what the weakest link of that truck is? :P
[16:23:52] <furrywolf> (other than the engine)
[16:24:04] <PetefromTn_> the engine was awesome..
[16:24:28] <furrywolf> as I said, we just exploded a 60, and we were on SAND, not even thrashing it... just twisted the pinion shaft off.
[16:24:37] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MxtRAseehM
[16:24:52] <PetefromTn_> but I thought the 60 was supposed to be bulletproof ;)
[16:25:20] <furrywolf> went through a water hole with a hill on the other side, gave it a little more gas to go up the hill... crunch. flop flop bang bang. back down, back out through the water, see what we broke... heh
[16:25:29] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:48] <furrywolf> no, the 60 is not bulletproof. nothing is bulletproof. :P
[16:25:58] <furrywolf> my truck only has a dana 60 front, and it's the weak link on it too.
[16:26:08] <PetefromTn_> there are LOTS of aftermarket parts for the D44 and there are tons of rigs running them including the new rubicon's
[16:26:10] <furrywolf> usually snapping the axle shafts near the u-joints
[16:26:40] <PetefromTn_> probably have too much tire on it
[16:26:57] <furrywolf> I haven't broken anything expensive yet. :)
[16:26:57] <PetefromTn_> or a heavy damn foot!
[16:27:32] <furrywolf> heh, heavy foot won't do much... it only has 120hp... or, rather, had 120hp in 1968, back when you didn't have to add a couple quarts of oil to the engine every time you added gas to the tank...
[16:27:32] <PetefromTn_> those X's don't do too bad for a grocery getter LOL
[16:27:50] <furrywolf> I'd be amazed if it's over 100hp now.
[16:28:04] <PetefromTn_> 4 doors 5 seats, decent storage room
[16:28:21] <PetefromTn_> pretty good wheelbase too considering the length
[16:28:44] <furrywolf> on the other side of the scale, little subarus offroad amazingly well for anything that's within their ground clearance. subie will go on any sand/dirt/etc a lifted truck does.
[16:28:54] <furrywolf> they don't like boulders though.
[16:29:14] <furrywolf> a friend wheeled a subaru hard, and the floorpan developed a pretty good arch shape in the middle from all the rocks he dropped it on.
[16:29:18] <PetefromTn_> http://i34.tinypic.com/2ajwdg3.jpg
[16:29:47] <furrywolf> I have no lift on my truck, but 2" lift on one of my subarus. lol
[16:29:51] <furrywolf> I need to swap it to 3".
[16:30:21] <PetefromTn_> https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3764/13116208164_9a1d533dbf_c.jpg Like this one...
[16:31:05] <furrywolf> I don't know about xterras, but we fit some pretty beefy tires with only trimming on the pathfinder.
[16:31:30] <PetefromTn_> you can run 33's on an X with simple mods and trimming
[16:31:42] <furrywolf> yeah, 33s were the biggest we got on the pathfinder.
[16:31:43] <PetefromTn_> I want to go SAS tho eventually
[16:31:50] <furrywolf> swapped to manual hubs on the front, got a couple extra mpg.
[16:31:54] <PetefromTn_> 35's on it is plenty IMHO
[16:32:28] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/pathfindersnow.jpg there's it with little tires.
[16:32:56] <furrywolf> the guy in the last video you pasted needs lockers, badly. :)
[16:33:34] <furrywolf> if you do a SAS, make sure the A has an locker. :)
[16:34:09] <PetefromTn_> of course...
[16:34:14] <PetefromTn_> at least a front locker
[16:34:18] <furrywolf> the pathfinder kept getting stuck, so we kept pulling it out with my m715.
[16:34:46] <PetefromTn_> I was amazed at how my SPOA samurai went with just a front locker in it.
[16:34:51] <furrywolf> we only got the m715 stuck once... I don't know how deep the snow was. we buried the 38.5" swampers 6" below the surface, and weren't hitting anything yet.
[16:34:52] <PetefromTn_> point and shoot
[16:35:05] <furrywolf> could have dug it out, but the winch was easier.
[16:35:13] <PetefromTn_> kaiser power
[16:35:26] <PetefromTn_> PTO?
[16:35:59] <furrywolf> no, sadly.
[16:36:02] <furrywolf> warn 8274
[16:36:08] <PetefromTn_> just as good
[16:36:08] <furrywolf> (upright style)
[16:36:29] <PetefromTn_> http://i37.tinypic.com/18bw2o.jpg
[16:36:29] <furrywolf> possibly better, because it still works even after you tilt the carb too much. lol
[16:37:09] <furrywolf> I like the 8274. much nicer than the new worm gear winches. it freespools so perfectly easily, and is so much faster pulling up slack...
[16:37:17] <furrywolf> new planetary gear winches
[16:37:47] <furrywolf> and holds more cable
[16:38:10] <furrywolf> I have a nice heavy duty snatch block behind the seats, but haven't had to use it yet.
[16:41:24] <PetefromTn_> I dunno some of the new winches are amazingly strong and FAST too
[16:41:36] <furrywolf> I need to spend a week doing truck projects this summer... I've got to install the front ARB, the rear Detroit, change the exhaust manifold, replace a leaking wheel seal (will do while doing the lockers), install the air system for the ARB, replace the spark plugs (it oil fouls them every 5k miles or so), and get a new top.
[16:42:36] <furrywolf> I haven't been happy with any of the newer winches I've used... they've always seemed to be slow and struggling, even when powering out.
[16:42:53] <furrywolf> I have a warn 6k planetary I need to put on my subaru.
[16:44:57] <PetefromTn_> my friend had an 8274 on a samurai. damn thing was heavier than the truck but could probably lift the whole truck off the ground easily...
[16:45:20] <furrywolf> the new exhaust manifold will be really, really, really nice... my stock one is broken badly. it's three separate pieces with about a 3/32" gap between them. loud as fuck.
[16:46:09] <furrywolf> I had to wrap my spark plug wires in fiberglass+foil heat wrap after the leaking exhaust gasses lit them on fire...
[16:46:23] <furrywolf> I finally managed to find one, but haven't gotten around to putting it on.
[16:46:31] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/Jv5sRXu.jpg interesting picture of an Xterra on 35's next to a wranger on similar
[16:47:01] <furrywolf> anything under 40" looks small on my truck, since it came with 35" tires stock. :)
[16:47:36] <furrywolf> it has huge fender arches... you can fit 44s under it with no lift.
[16:47:57] <furrywolf> though usually people to a shackle flip so they fit better
[16:48:02] <furrywolf> s/to/do
[16:48:49] <furrywolf> my neighbor had a blazer with 44s and about 2ft of lift... it broke every time he drove it.
[16:49:08] <furrywolf> the last straw was when he exploded both the front axle and the transfer case in one trip
[16:49:49] <furrywolf> he exploded a hub, axle stub shaft, and bearing, all at once... and then twisted the transfer case off the transmission.
[16:50:13] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[16:50:49] <PetefromTn_> well I got a call from a guy down south of here that has a 5 speed Xterra for sale. He had someone coming to look at it today that no showed. so maybe I can get it from him here.
[16:50:49] <furrywolf> he has a bit of a lead foot, and it had a bit of a built motor...
[16:51:09] <furrywolf> it was out of a camaro or something, pre-smog.
[16:51:18] <PetefromTn_> never could understand the need for a built motor on a crawler.. I always want a good reliable stock motor
[16:51:33] <PetefromTn_> wheeled for YEARS on a stock samurai motor with 75 hp
[16:51:44] <PetefromTn_> six different samurai's
[16:51:52] <furrywolf> which meant he was never able to actually register the blazer, because it was new enough it needed a smog test, and you can't pass one with a 20-year-older non-smog engine stuffed under the hood with all the stock wiring cut. heh.
[16:51:53] <PetefromTn_> went places no vehicle should be able to go
[16:52:13] <PetefromTn_> well gotta go pickup my wife.
[16:52:30] <furrywolf> yeah, my truck's stock engine is fine for crawling... the 60mph top speed sucks though. :)
[16:52:49] <PetefromTn_> BBL
[16:52:52] <furrywolf> cyas
[17:05:21] <JT-Shop> damn amazon return is a revolving door that just brings you back to the start lol
[17:07:33] <robinsz> so a question ...
[17:07:59] <robinsz> what do you do to start a machine where the axis has run off into the limit switch?
[17:09:29] <robinsz> I got bored of reaching inside to move the Z axis belts
[17:10:22] <robinsz> or shuld I just configure it as home switches only, as there is just 1 switch per axis
[17:12:07] <furrywolf> can you jog it?
[17:26:07] <JT-Shop> anyone have a link to archivist web site?
[17:27:16] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: http://www.wench.archivist.info
[17:27:51] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: tell him sent you for 10% all info :)
[17:28:14] <JT-Shop> thanks
[17:31:18] <JT-Shop> doesn't he have a catalog of various subjects like gear cutting?
[17:52:17] <andypugh> PCW: I am having problems with my 5i23. It seems to need the PC to power right down before LinuxCNC will restart, (no /DONE) and after a few minutes of running the system shuts down with a variety of problems, such as watchdog bites, smart-serial comms errors. re-seating the PCI slot seems to help, but not for long enough to make anything. I am using a right-angle riser and the MB is ye olde D510MO. I am wondering about
[17:52:17] <andypugh> trying a different riser, or maybe even a new MB.
[17:52:50] <andypugh> But is there a chance that the issue is with the 5i23? (It seems unlikely, the errors all point at PCI comms)
[17:54:08] <furrywolf> hrmm, I think I have to declare this eu2000i as a parts unit. it's reallllly clean, but seems to have burnt valves, and the inverter that's with it is obviously out of another unit and also bad, and I don't have another inverter that'll fit.
[17:54:35] <furrywolf> valve lash is good, but it blows exhaust out the intake just as much as the other end...
[17:54:55] <furrywolf> not worth both sourcing an inverter AND rebuilding the engine.
[17:55:41] <furrywolf> I think pcw mentioned risers being a perennial source of problems at one point.
[17:56:19] <Cromaglious> argh!*#&^@(*&^$*&$ Just fried a DMX LED light... Hopefully it's just the voltage regualtor
[17:58:47] <furrywolf> how'd you fry it?
[18:00:39] <SpeedEvil> I guess misuse of x-ray vision.
[18:01:40] <furrywolf> anyone want an eu2000i really cheap? :P
[18:02:18] <SpeedEvil> Shipping may be an issue :)
[18:02:55] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: also - valveless pulsejets work fine with the exhaust blowing out the intake
[18:03:02] <Cromaglious> shorted pin 1 Vin to pin 2 Vout
[18:03:25] <Cromaglious> furrywolf: what's amatta wid it
[18:03:39] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Hey man ya out there?
[18:03:47] <furrywolf> it came with no front panel and inverter, then I found a front panel in the pile of parts, obviously off a different unit (mismatched dirt color)... looks like the inverter is bad, but it's different than all the others.
[18:04:05] <furrywolf> Crom: burnt valves, bad inverter, and several parts missing.
[18:04:10] <Cromaglious> really really cheap then
[18:04:25] <Cromaglious> parts thens
[18:04:32] <furrywolf> yep
[18:04:43] <furrywolf> looks like it was already used for parts after someone found the burnt valves
[18:05:21] <furrywolf> it _does_ run if you spray carb cleaner directly into the side of the head faster than it can blow it back out... but doesn't put out any power, probably due to the random front panel being a pull from a bad unit.
[18:06:10] <furrywolf> this is what happens when the manual says to adjust the lash every 300 hours and you run it a few thousand not doing so.
[18:08:55] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Or the manual doesn't say that.
[18:09:09] <SpeedEvil> The manual says you need to get it serviced every 300 hours and doesn't say why or what to do
[18:09:12] <SpeedEvil> :/
[18:09:39] <furrywolf> sure it does. it says "take it to your honda dealer" :P
[18:13:44] <Tom_itx> andypugh i wonder if the riser is introducing noise?
[18:20:50] <PCW> Sounds like PCI connection troubles. I would try without the riser if you can temporarily arrange things that way
[18:34:11] <andypugh> I tried no riser. I can’t close the enclsure, and things are no better.
[18:36:23] <andypugh> A 5i24 would fit, and allow the case to close. But won’t help if the problem is the the MB PCI slot.
[18:36:50] <andypugh> Maybe I should try plowing everything off with an airline.
[18:37:20] <Jymmm> United Airlines?
[18:37:27] <andypugh> And I am not going to get a new 5i23 or 5i24 by tomorrow, when I want the mill working
[18:38:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: no need sleep
[18:38:50] <andypugh> No, not really
[18:39:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: Just put on your elf shoesand work throught the night =)
[18:39:35] <andypugh> How does that help when the machine isn’t working?
[18:39:57] <Jymmm> you make it work by putting parts and stuff on it?
[18:40:07] <andypugh> I can’t get the parts
[18:40:25] <Jymmm> cant make em either?
[18:41:15] <Jymmm> like temperary till the real parts arrive?
[18:41:18] <andypugh> No, because even if I could mill a 5i23 and motherboard from solid, the machine isn’t working.
[18:41:57] <Jymmm> I meant the machine, the parts cnan be over night if you HAD to have them ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
[18:42:27] <Jymmm> or is it a want, and not a need?
[18:43:14] <Jymmm> If you had a job due in 4 days for $250K, overnight from US to UK isn't bad.
[18:44:50] <Jymmm> Though I am curious as to how much. I do know that FedEx has SAME DAY service too.
[18:47:08] <Jymmm> Shit... the even say "customs-cleared" to your door in 2 days by morning. http://www.fedex.com/gb/shipping-services/international/import/usa/intl-first.html
[18:47:14] <andypugh> I would also need to set up a system to re-build my custom bitfile. I don’t know how long that would take either.
[18:47:57] <andypugh> But that isn’t even necessarily the problem.
[18:48:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, I miss you saying "want" and not "need" - I'm dreadly fully tired, it's 5pm, and I still have another 11 hours or so togo
[18:49:36] <Jymmm> At least it's starting to cool off now, only 86F
[18:50:14] <andypugh> I never _need_ my machines working, but I do have something of a requirement to make some new exhaust clamps for the bike before friday.
[18:51:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: machining isn't your bread and butter?
[18:51:10] <andypugh> it’s a simple machining job though. I might be able to use a miling cutter in the lathe chuck and a spigot held in the tailstock.
[18:51:47] <andypugh> No, machining is purely a hobby. I develop engine control software for money.
[18:51:54] <Jymmm> gotcha
[18:52:16] <Jymmm> oh thats right, worked for ford at some point
[18:52:22] <andypugh> Still do.
[18:52:25] <Jymmm> k
[18:52:40] <Jymmm> wait, you design the ECU?
[18:55:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: Find whoever engineered the fuel pump is the tank without a hatch to get to it and bitch slap em for me!
[18:55:58] <andypugh> Delphi design the ECU. We just program it.
[18:56:24] <Jymmm> ISn't delphi Chevy? Or is that AC Delco?
[18:56:42] <andypugh> Delphi was Lucas.
[18:56:56] <Jymmm> Lucas aRts, as in the studio?
[18:57:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: any easter eggs? secret diag modes?
[18:58:57] <andypugh> Nothing interesting.
[18:59:17] <Jymmm> like brake, brake, open door, left blinker, right blinker, close door, brake, brake, brake, FIGHT!
[19:00:19] <Jymmm> define "interesting"?
[19:03:05] <andypugh> I know how to open the thermostat to enable coolant fill.
[19:03:19] <andypugh> I don’t call that interesting.
[19:03:19] <Roguish> Lucas as in "why do British drink warm beer? because they have Lucas refrigerators."
[19:03:40] <andypugh> I have decided I can machine my parts on the lathe.
[19:04:03] <andypugh> Then think about fixing the mill in a couple of weeks when I am back from holiday.
[19:05:47] <andypugh> But I seem to have ordered another motherboard just in case.
[19:16:15] <CaptHindsight> Roguish: besides that good beer tastes better warm?
[19:17:05] <furrywolf> two more generators tested... the other eu2000i I got yesterday runs! it smokes a little, but not enough I'd consider it unacceptable if used at a jobsite with a >25ft extension cord.
[19:17:27] <furrywolf> carb is a little dirty and the pull start cord is only 1.5ft long, but those are easy fixes.
[19:17:56] <furrywolf> once I got the water out of the carb, it supports an 1800W load with minimal smoke after warming up.
[19:18:06] <CaptHindsight> how many men in hamster wheels does on generator engine replace?
[19:18:13] <CaptHindsight> on/one
[19:19:02] <furrywolf> also tested one of the eu1000is... had no drain plug or oil. found drain plug off parts unit, added oil... seems to have internal damage. makes bad clunks approaching TDC.
[19:19:24] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: people are generally less than 1/3rd hp, and are very inefficient.
[19:19:44] <furrywolf> suspect this 1000 is going to become a parts unit
[19:20:01] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: why are you against people working?
[19:20:08] <Cromaglious> LM2576S-5.0 ouch $20 for 5
[19:20:42] <furrywolf> CaptHindsight: fun fact: it takes more gasoline to produce, transport, refrigerate, etc, the food you consume for you to power any kind of people-powered device, than you'd need to burn in a generator to make the same amount of power.
[19:20:56] <furrywolf> useful thing to know every time someone comes up with a great way to use people power to do something
[19:21:16] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: why do you make excuses for people not working?
[19:21:38] * furrywolf decides CaptHindsight is either a hippie or trolling
[19:22:03] <CaptHindsight> what is the purpose of these generators?
[19:22:30] <furrywolf> keep the best one of each size for me, give some to friends and relatives, craigslist the rest.
[19:22:32] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: any other conversation would be nice :)
[19:23:01] <CaptHindsight> there is twitter btw :)
[19:23:22] * furrywolf needs money to buy milling machine parts
[19:23:49] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: are these all from an auction?
[19:24:18] <furrywolf> even if only a quarter of them are repairable and sellable, that's still enough profit to get my milling machine all together...
[19:24:25] <furrywolf> I got them from a repair shop closing a location.
[19:25:50] <furrywolf> 2 eu6500is, 1 em7000is, 5 eu3000is, 4 (+1 in pieces) eu2000i, 3 (+1 in pieces) eu1000i.
[19:27:05] <furrywolf> so far I've fixed one 3000 into a perfect runner, one 2000 into an acceptable runner, and put together a 3000 to find it burns too much oil, tore it apart, and have rings on order for it. should be here tomorrow.
[19:27:49] <furrywolf> this 2000 might be resellable as a cheapo unit with the pullstart fixed. I don't know if tossing rings at it will improve its value enough for the effort. it's a bitch to dismantle and hone these.
[19:29:24] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: still there??
[19:29:44] <furrywolf> I can probably get $400 as a cheapo burns oil unit, or spend $20 and 5 hours to sell it as a $500 doesn't burn oil unit...
[19:31:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah man
[19:31:24] <PetefromTn_> howzitgoin?
[19:31:35] <CaptHindsight> itsuhgoin
[19:31:41] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[19:31:47] <CaptHindsight> you pinged me earlier
[19:32:01] <PetefromTn_> Hey man I lost out on a job today because I can't freakin anodize stuff
[19:32:06] <PetefromTn_> pissed me off bad
[19:32:20] <PetefromTn_> and I remembered our conversations about anodizing awhile back
[19:32:28] <CaptHindsight> you going to build your own tanks?
[19:32:53] <PetefromTn_> I am gonna do whatever the hell I have to do to be able to offer this as reasonable as possible
[19:33:17] <PetefromTn_> I need to be able to do black predominately
[19:33:31] <PetefromTn_> any other colors would just be gravy
[19:34:40] <PetefromTn_> got some paypal money I can maybe use to buy a power supply you were talking about.
[19:35:11] <PetefromTn_> I know you are the guru of anodize so I wanted to get your advice
[19:36:10] <Cromaglious> hmm $20 and 5 hours sounds like $150 to me
[19:37:17] <Tom_itx> andypugh what MB did you go with?
[19:37:19] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how big are the parts and how heavy?
[19:37:45] <PetefromTn_> most of the parts I machine are about 8-10 inches long and about 1-2 wide etc.
[19:37:48] <_methods> you can pick up old server power supplies for dirt cheap
[19:38:09] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Asus J1800 with full-size PCI + Parport
[19:38:10] <Cromaglious> Gonna replace the Voltage regulator and and see if the light works again. If not, then I start replacing parts until it does
[19:38:11] <PetefromTn_> I think CaptHindsight uses a dedicated PPS
[19:38:40] <Cromaglious> ok laters.. I have to go install outdoor carpet
[19:38:42] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how many parts will you run at the same time?
[19:38:46] <PetefromTn_> I would like the ability to do larger parts as well...
[19:38:58] <PetefromTn_> I dunno maybe up to ten or so
[19:39:10] <PetefromTn_> not in a huge hurry usually for this..
[19:39:34] <PetefromTn_> if I could do it and make it look halfway pro I would be doing a lot better around here.
[19:39:39] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: there are lots of DIY sites
[19:39:58] <PetefromTn_> I tried to contact a place that does it in Knoxvegas and they blew me off because I do not make tons of parts
[19:40:16] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: the main difference is that I can offer you brush, spray, dip etc dye so that you don't have to dye bath the parts
[19:40:23] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know but you seemed to know a lot about it.
[19:40:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what you said and that sounds real good if it is not too expensive
[19:41:04] <PetefromTn_> you said it lasts longer too as I recall
[19:41:28] <CaptHindsight> http://bucktownpolymers.com/anodize00.html are the inks
[19:42:19] <CaptHindsight> it's easier to work with since you don't have to get the dye bath just right
[19:42:37] <PetefromTn_> is that the stuff you said you could sell me?
[19:42:53] <_methods> wow that stuff sounds awesome
[19:42:55] <PetefromTn_> what do you recommend for a power supply
[19:42:59] <CaptHindsight> after the parts are anodized (bit not sealed) and dry you just coat them with the inks where you want color
[19:43:03] <_methods> you just shoot it on with a hvlp gun or something?
[19:43:14] <CaptHindsight> or airbrush
[19:43:17] <PetefromTn_> he said you can even airbrush it
[19:43:23] <_methods> awesome
[19:43:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah man
[19:43:29] <_methods> i might have to try that out
[19:43:30] <CaptHindsight> bush, sponge, dip etc
[19:43:39] <CaptHindsight> brush
[19:43:41] <CaptHindsight> heh
[19:43:42] <PetefromTn_> does it make a good deep black?
[19:44:16] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it's like a sharpie black
[19:44:16] <PetefromTn_> and can you point me in the right direction for a power supply again?
[19:44:27] <PetefromTn_> so more of a purple kinda black
[19:44:59] <PetefromTn_> what do you use for an anodize tank?
[19:45:37] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: or black shoe dye
[19:45:48] <CaptHindsight> it's pretty black
[19:45:48] <PetefromTn_> thats pretty black
[19:45:54] <PetefromTn_> perfect
[19:45:59] <CaptHindsight> the real black black is expensive
[19:46:17] <PetefromTn_> define expensive
[19:46:50] <CaptHindsight> the long life black clacks are actually nanoparticles vs dye
[19:47:13] <PetefromTn_> ooh cool nano
[19:47:15] <CaptHindsight> but they have to be such small particles that they fit into the anodize pores
[19:47:33] <CaptHindsight> so 1-30nm (nanometer)
[19:48:01] <PetefromTn_> I would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction to get started with this. I wanna try to get this job here....plus be able to offer my other parts with color
[19:48:16] <PetefromTn_> if you want to go to PM that is cool with me
[19:48:28] <CaptHindsight> we offer CMY + K (black)
[19:48:50] <CaptHindsight> you ix cyan, yellow and magenta to get all the other colors just like a printing press
[19:48:57] <CaptHindsight> ix/mix
[19:49:29] <PetefromTn_> okay so if I get enough of those I can mix most any color then sweet
[19:50:05] <CaptHindsight> http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6aa5c763d32f69e06b4c7226f74f724b?convert_to_webp=true
[19:50:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ps.missouri.edu/PS2/support/TutorialFolder/ColorTutorial/ColorTutorial3.html
[19:50:50] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMYK_color_model
[19:51:39] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how electrically oriented are you? Can you modify a high current supply or do you want something turn-key?
[19:51:48] <PetefromTn_> I'm a little familiar with the three color system from copiers I used to work on
[19:52:30] <PetefromTn_> I am no electronics expert as has been seen here but I am willing to experiment ;) A turn key would be best if it is reasonable. I recall you knew of some chinese ones that were worth looking at
[19:52:58] <PetefromTn_> what kinda mods are we talking about ?
[19:53:12] <CaptHindsight> automation technologies (keiling) had some from China
[19:53:35] <SpeedEvil> Well - how high current does kind of depend on the parts.
[19:53:48] <SpeedEvil> you need rather more current for a car-door than a thimble
[19:53:57] <PetefromTn_> surely
[19:54:08] <PetefromTn_> as I said most parts are less than ten inches long
[19:54:17] <PetefromTn_> usually 6061
[19:54:43] <PetefromTn_> usually have some tapped holes I can cram a rod into to hold in the bath and plug the rest etc.
[19:55:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/power-supplies.html off the shelf
[19:56:31] <PetefromTn_> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mastech-power-supply
[19:56:40] <CaptHindsight> let me check ebay for deal
[19:56:53] <PetefromTn_> how many amps do you think I need?
[19:57:13] <CaptHindsight> that is based on surface area
[19:57:24] <CaptHindsight> let me find you the formulas
[19:57:43] <CaptHindsight> jt has a section on his site with DIY info as well
[19:58:10] <CaptHindsight> ^^ that supply has constant current mode
[19:58:19] <PetefromTn_> which supply?
[19:59:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mastech-power-supply/mastech-hy3020d
[20:00:15] <PetefromTn_> is this what you use?
[20:00:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.shadowguarddev.com/alex/anodizing/ shows you the math to determine surface area and current
[20:00:35] <CaptHindsight> power supply?
[20:00:40] <CaptHindsight> we have other fancy stuff
[20:01:15] <CaptHindsight> we even aluminum plate copper and steel and then anodize it
[20:01:45] <PetefromTn_> so that's a big no...
[20:02:00] <CaptHindsight> I have some black anodized cold roll around here
[20:02:48] <PetefromTn_> would a power supply like that one do most of what I will need to do?
[20:02:54] <SpeedEvil> 'aluminium plate' ?
[20:03:01] <SpeedEvil> in water?
[20:03:01] <PetefromTn_> that link talks about big battery chargers
[20:03:23] <SpeedEvil> Or in molten salt or something.
[20:03:29] <SpeedEvil> Or explosive weld
[20:04:30] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: it's a electrolytic process done in a sealed chamber in solvents
[20:04:41] <SpeedEvil> No water?
[20:05:01] <CaptHindsight> it puts down pure aluminum a few microns thick and then we can anodize that
[20:05:06] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[20:05:06] <CaptHindsight> no water
[20:06:10] <PetefromTn_> so it has to be a linear power supply then
[20:06:20] <CaptHindsight> the tricky part of color anodize is getting the water dye bath right
[20:06:43] <CaptHindsight> if you use our waterless colorants it's easy
[20:06:47] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: linear or switching doesn't matter - as long as it can do constant current
[20:07:07] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: ^^ what he said :)
[20:07:36] <SpeedEvil> This is almost the least critical use for a PSU there is
[20:07:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mastech-power-supply/mastech-hy3020e this one work?
[20:08:11] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[20:08:15] <SpeedEvil> CErtainly overkill.
[20:08:22] <PetefromTn_> really?
[20:08:26] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: info on current, voltage and time http://www.anodizeusa.com/documents/AnodizingbyConstantCurrentDensity.pdf
[20:08:27] <SpeedEvil> But a very capable and useful PSU
[20:08:27] <PetefromTn_> what makes it overkill
[20:09:02] <CaptHindsight> heh "SWITCHING power supply does NOT work for include Electroplating, Anodizing, Battery Charging and Chemical Experimentation."
[20:09:26] <CaptHindsight> it's probably due to the way it senses load
[20:09:45] <PetefromTn_> so that means that one is a nogo
[20:09:45] <CaptHindsight> poorly designed switcher
[20:10:06] <SpeedEvil> Ah - yes - that is very odd.
[20:10:09] <CaptHindsight> this is a very cheapo switcher design, just use it for motors :)
[20:10:26] <CaptHindsight> and with a big output cap :)
[20:10:32] <SpeedEvil> I would go so far as to say never buy that PSU for anything - with that caveat
[20:10:40] <CaptHindsight> heh yeah
[20:10:41] <SpeedEvil> Sorry for not properly reading.
[20:11:10] <PetefromTn_> so again that one I just posted will not work correct?
[20:11:28] <CaptHindsight> the D model is the one I posted
[20:11:36] <CaptHindsight> it's a linear supply
[20:12:07] <PetefromTn_> okay so that one is the one I need and nothing cheaper they sell is worth looking at for this purpose correct?
[20:12:08] <CaptHindsight> but now I'm not sure if they screwed that one up as well
[20:12:44] <CaptHindsight> I haven't checked ebay yet
[20:15:01] <PetefromTn_> according to that site the surface area calculations are for actual anodizing TIME. Current just speeds up the time apparently>
[20:15:30] <SpeedEvil> Current density also changes the properties of the grown oxide layer to some degree
[20:17:02] <PetefromTn_> sounds like he did that little 2" diameter round part at only 2 amps for 30 minutes or so...
[20:18:27] <PetefromTn_> so if I got that PPS capt is talking about which can deliver 20 amps so figure half at ten amps should be maybe an hour or so for my parts even twice that would me perfectly fine with me.
[20:19:20] <PetefromTn_> So after you cook it with this process captain is talking about you can just spray the part or sponge it as he said and then you just seal it in cold water and that's it??? sounds pretty simple but I am sure it is not LOL
[20:19:51] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: you can cold water seal but not just with plain water
[20:20:04] <PetefromTn_> http://www.shadowguarddev.com/alex/anodizing/Anodizer_PS.jpg
[20:20:21] <PetefromTn_> is that what you were talking about doing it the hard way?
[20:20:37] <CaptHindsight> harder anyway
[20:20:51] <PetefromTn_> do you use distilled water?
[20:21:07] <PetefromTn_> how much would it cost to put together something like that?
[20:21:29] <CaptHindsight> yes, di water, never tap
[20:21:52] <PetefromTn_> and battery acid for the anodize tank right..
[20:21:57] <CaptHindsight> distilled and de-ionized
[20:22:14] <PetefromTn_> do you have to constantly swap out the seal water?
[20:22:28] <CaptHindsight> yes, you can use other acids but that's not for beginners :)
[20:22:41] <CaptHindsight> the sealing water is good for a long time
[20:22:45] <PetefromTn_> what would you recommend
[20:23:29] <PetefromTn_> so I guess with your method you are just looking at two tanks an anodize tank and a seal tank. which negates the need for the anodize tanks and different color tanks etc..
[20:23:44] <CaptHindsight> and a cleaning tank
[20:23:52] <CaptHindsight> desmut
[20:23:57] <PetefromTn_> what happens in the cleaning tank?
[20:24:42] <CaptHindsight> you want all the contaminants off the parts of they will show up as imperfections
[20:24:59] <CaptHindsight> dark spots, light spots, etc
[20:25:14] <PetefromTn_> so this is before the anodizing then
[20:25:16] <CaptHindsight> so gloves on
[20:25:23] <PetefromTn_> fer sure
[20:25:51] <CaptHindsight> clean tank, anodize tank, rinse tank, dye, sealing tank
[20:26:23] <CaptHindsight> after anodize you want to rinse the acid off the parts before dye bath or coloring
[20:26:40] <PetefromTn_> Damnit... I gotta run out and get something at the store for my wife here apparently it is an emergency...SHIT
[20:26:55] <CaptHindsight> hasta banana
[20:27:09] <PetefromTn_> Okay I got it so far here. I will get back with you later or tomorrow
[20:27:16] <PetefromTn_> thanks man.
[20:29:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.stonechemical.com/seals.asp seals
[20:29:17] <CaptHindsight> nickel acetate
[20:30:32] <PetefromTn_> sweet. Thanks man I gotta get this going. Gonna try to order a power supply lemme know if you find a better deal on ebay or something. BBL
[20:30:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.usspecialty.com/tds/NickelAcetate.pdf
[20:32:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.usspecialty.com/tds.php
[21:49:29] <bobo_> Hi pete of Tenn . Been reading about your future acid enhanced trip. might ask about controlling acid fumes as it does a real nasty to machines & machine parts.
[21:50:01] <PetefromTn_> yeah I will probably do it outside the garage door on nice days or something.
[21:51:06] <bobo_> let Zeeshan do that part
[21:51:27] <PetefromTn_> he's a touch far away man
[21:53:22] <CaptHindsight> maybe ask JT :)
[21:53:52] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: used missed these links http://www.usspecialty.com/tds/NickelAcetate.pdf
[21:53:54] <PetefromTn_> honestly if I could get a good price for the work I would farm it out. The bigass place in knoxville won't even return my calls LOL
[21:54:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.usspecialty.com/tds.php
[21:54:15] <CaptHindsight> cold nickle sealing works well
[21:54:43] <PetefromTn_> you mentioned you would ration out for me some smaller sizes from your stash is that still on the table?
[21:54:52] <CaptHindsight> if you use just cold di-water you won't form the right oxide
[21:55:24] <PetefromTn_> I thought the oxide was formed during the anodization tank period?
[21:55:30] <bobo_> bummer anaway acid fumes ------- I know that many plastic containers are not good for holding acid long term around metal
[21:56:18] <PetefromTn_> Dunno but I have seen quite a few websites showing people anodizing in new 5 gallon plastic pails from home depot
[21:56:44] <PetefromTn_> I have also seen people use small insulated coolers
[21:56:54] <PetefromTn_> what do you recommend Capt?
[21:57:03] <CaptHindsight> http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-sealing-process-is-so-important.html
[21:57:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.finishing.com/273/60.shtml
[21:58:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.anodizeworld.com/anodizing-sealant.html
[21:59:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.lorin.com/media/1244/coil-anodozing-explained-2.jpg you want to form a tough hydrate
[21:59:49] <CaptHindsight> if you don't seal properly it will be soft and flaky vs hard
[22:01:19] <PetefromTn_> jeez I am just looking for a simple foolproof setup using whatever means necessary. If it is nickel acetate or DI water so be it. What do you recommend?
[22:01:59] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: people have used poly coolers http://scene7.targetimg1.com/is/image/Target/657325?wid=480&hei=480
[22:02:07] <CaptHindsight> since they also insulate
[22:02:23] <PetefromTn_> poly?
[22:02:28] <CaptHindsight> but the anodizing tank will generate heat
[22:02:36] <PetefromTn_> can't just use any cheap coolet?
[22:02:41] <PetefromTn_> cooler?
[22:02:42] <CaptHindsight> polypropylene vs styrofoam
[22:02:58] <PetefromTn_> so insulated plastic cooler is fine not styro
[22:03:15] <PetefromTn_> what for the anodizing tank?
[22:03:30] <CaptHindsight> http://scene7.targetimg1.com/is/image/Target/10885736?wid=410&hei=410 for all their tanks
[22:03:38] <CaptHindsight> since they also come with lids
[22:03:45] <Jymmm> You'll find HDPE containers far more than you'll find PP one's
[22:03:55] <Jymmm> Which should be fine short term
[22:04:02] <Jymmm> NEVER EPS though
[22:04:16] <Jymmm> EPS = Expanded polytyrene = styrafoam
[22:04:27] <Jymmm> polystyrene
[22:04:34] <PetefromTn_> I thought I would go to the dollar store and see what kinda inexpensive plastic coolers they have there and grab a bunch of them.
[22:04:44] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Nooooooo,
[22:04:53] <CaptHindsight> too flimsy
[22:04:59] <Jymmm> too brittle
[22:05:00] <PetefromTn_> insulated coolers
[22:05:04] <Jymmm> Look for HDPE
[22:05:14] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: YEs, I know.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[22:05:34] <PetefromTn_> whats wrong with just a plastic 5 gallon bucket?
[22:05:44] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Is it HDPE?
[22:05:52] <PetefromTn_> no idea
[22:06:02] <Jymmm> look on the bottom the recycling symbol
[22:06:03] <CaptHindsight> http://viniciussaliba.tripod.com/index_arquivos/cleaner.jpeg
[22:06:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk416-hk417-hq/13424d1371619950-hk-416-upper-receiver-refinish-step-step-w-anodizing-diy-photo-25-.jpg
[22:06:28] <PetefromTn_> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leaktite-5-Gal-Black-Project-Bucket-Pack-of-3-209338/203924802?N=5yc1vZc5bkZ1z0t8rk
[22:07:23] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: 2nd photo is best.
[22:07:40] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Let me look...
[22:08:08] <PetefromTn_> I think the coolers would be better just due to the shape
[22:08:20] <PetefromTn_> they are not terribly expensive anyways
[22:08:25] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I just looked on the bottom of the bucket, they are HDPE
[22:08:47] <PetefromTn_> maybe a nice big cooler for the anodizing tank and the rest buckets?
[22:10:09] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: You really dont want PVC
[22:10:12] <PetefromTn_> that nickel acetate is pretty cheap how much do you use
[22:10:39] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: This says PE... http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubbermaid-37-Gal-32-2-5-in-x-20-2-5-in-x-18-3-5-in-Hi-Top-Storage-Tote-FG3A00H2MICBL/100347929
[22:11:22] <PetefromTn_> now what would that be for the anodize tank?
[22:11:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.com/p/MUSTEE-Utilatub-23-in-x-25-in-Polypropylene-Floor-Mount-Laundry-Tub-14/202041453
[22:12:06] <Jymmm> thats a nice tub
[22:12:08] <CaptHindsight> all the tanks
[22:12:09] <Jymmm> sink
[22:12:20] <CaptHindsight> yeah $26
[22:12:27] <Jymmm> great price too
[22:12:37] <CaptHindsight> needs a proper plug
[22:13:26] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: you do want to go too ghetto since you are working with acid
[22:13:28] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: You can do whatever you ant of course, *I* would NEVER EVER use any kind of acis on/in/near PVC containers is all I'm saying.
[22:13:49] <CaptHindsight> and you don't want to spill anything
[22:13:57] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: You can do whatever you want of course, *I* would NEVER EVER use any kind of acid on/in/near PVC containers is all I'm saying.
[22:14:19] <PetefromTn_> I have no intention of going Ghetto with it. Just want to do it as inexpensively as possible while remaining safe and usable
[22:14:58] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: it's gallon of acid, how would you clean up/contain if the container failed?
[22:15:05] <Jymmm> gallons*
[22:15:09] <PetefromTn_> I would actually like to try to make it into some kind of kart that I can roll outside while I am working with it.'
[22:15:47] <Jymmm> liquid likes to slosh around when moved
[22:16:05] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: you also want consistent temperature in the anodize tank
[22:16:05] <Jymmm> unless there are baffle sin the container
[22:16:19] <CaptHindsight> as it anodizes it generates heat
[22:16:47] <CaptHindsight> not sure how many parts you'll do at a time
[22:16:52] <PetefromTn_> so the faster you can anodize the better IE the more current power supply etc.
[22:17:01] <Jymmm> These square tanks are PP http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk416-hk417-hq/13424d1371619950-hk-416-upper-receiver-refinish-step-step-w-anodizing-diy-photo-25-.jpg
[22:17:17] <bobo_> Small freezer ?------ has lid can install wheels
[22:17:20] <CaptHindsight> but heat goes up and effects the pore size and growth rate
[22:17:21] <PetefromTn_> wonder where the hell he got those
[22:17:52] <PetefromTn_> how do you guys regulate temperature?
[22:17:57] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=712&parentcatid=838
[22:18:33] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/238/polypropylene-tanks
[22:18:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/337/polypropylene-rectangular-tanks pricey new
[22:18:54] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: http://www.tank-depot.com/product.aspx?id=282
[22:19:57] <PetefromTn_> shit those are expensive
[22:20:22] <CaptHindsight> but they last for years
[22:20:58] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: restraunt supply , bus tubs
[22:21:26] <PetefromTn_> what do you guys use capt
[22:21:28] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-BigTub-Utilatub-40-in-x-24-in-Polypropylene-Utility-Tub-in-White-with-Legs-28F/204313089
[22:21:52] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: we have lab grade equipment
[22:22:12] <PetefromTn_> meaning?
[22:22:19] <zeeshan|2> $$$$$$$$$$
[22:22:31] <CaptHindsight> we actually send out big parts or buy anodized coil
[22:22:37] <CaptHindsight> yeah $$
[22:22:45] <CaptHindsight> or you have to wait for bargains
[22:23:20] <CaptHindsight> we specialize more in the after anodize but before sealing
[22:23:41] <CaptHindsight> multiaxis inkjet printers, fluids and inks
[22:24:06] <PetefromTn_> caswell platings kits all seem to have 5 gallon buckets
[22:24:27] <CaptHindsight> if that size works for you
[22:24:44] <CaptHindsight> round is kind of awkward
[22:25:18] <PetefromTn_> honestly it probably would be fine as I could probably fit a hundred of the parts I make in a 5 gallon bucket
[22:25:51] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: figure out the surface area
[22:26:23] <CaptHindsight> find the wattage and that will be the amount of heat in the water+acid
[22:26:59] <PetefromTn_> okay so you are saying that the heat will be an issue in the buckets then..
[22:27:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/how-watt-to-btu.htm
[22:27:38] <CaptHindsight> 100W = 341 btu
[22:28:04] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: IF you are going to use questionable containers, at least double envelope them
[22:28:18] <CaptHindsight> a BTU is the amount of energy needed to cool or heat one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit
[22:28:23] <PetefromTn_> who said anything about using questionable containers?
[22:28:40] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: You said you were a cheap bastard, same diff =)
[22:28:57] <PetefromTn_> never said that either
[22:29:05] <CaptHindsight> a gallon of water is 8 lbs
[22:29:13] <PetefromTn_> just said I want to do it safely and as inexpensively as possible
[22:29:14] <Jymmm> Yes you did, just in so many words.
[22:29:45] <PetefromTn_> jymm how much anodizing have you done?
[22:29:51] <bobo_> "who said anything about using questionable containers?" blame bobo
[22:30:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I like that basin, think I'll get one, especially for that price point
[22:31:07] <PetefromTn_> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubbermaid-37-Gal-32-2-5-in-x-20-2-5-in-x-18-3-5-in-Hi-Top-Storage-Tote-FG3A00H2MICBL/100347929 would these really work?
[22:31:07] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: I work with other (caustic/corrosive) chemicals in large vasts
[22:32:00] <CaptHindsight> so lets say 5 gallons = 40 lbs and 100 watts of power so 340 btu will raise the temp of the water 8.5 deg F in 1 hour
[22:32:34] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: That is PE, not PP, but in a pinch, yes.
[22:32:38] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_:
[22:32:39] <zeeshan|2> http://www.finishing.com/89/25.shtml
[22:32:40] <PetefromTn_> okay is that much change too much>
[22:32:45] <zeeshan|2> these guys know what they are talkin about
[22:34:36] <PetefromTn_> From the sound of it most anodizing should be completed in less than 2 hours right? at least for smaller parts like the 10" or so I am going to be doing
[22:35:19] <zeeshan|2> 1/2" thick polypropylene this guy recommends
[22:35:21] <zeeshan|2> jeez that's THICK
[22:35:39] <zeeshan|2> im pretty sure your powder room sink is supposed to be made out of polypropylene
[22:35:43] <zeeshan|2> and it's pretty thick
[22:35:51] <zeeshan|2> not 1/2" but like i'd think 3/16"
[22:35:56] <CaptHindsight> you don't want it to flop around
[22:36:32] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: this is PP http://www.homedepot.com/p/MUSTEE-Utilatub-23-in-x-25-in-Polypropylene-Floor-Mount-Laundry-Tub-14/202041453
[22:36:50] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: You could even fix a valve on the bottom to drain it as needed
[22:37:43] <Jymmm> I'd keep an OH SHIT bucket under it at all times personally =)
[22:38:29] <PetefromTn_> this would only be necessary for the anodize tank right?
[22:38:35] <Jymmm> and some sort of hinged lid
[22:38:50] <Jymmm> for most acids
[22:38:54] <Jymmm> many?
[22:39:12] <Jymmm> $30 is a CHEAP contianer that size
[22:39:17] <PetefromTn_> sure is
[22:39:19] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: your cleaning tank might want a cover and also be sturdy
[22:39:32] <PetefromTn_> lets say I got two of those sinks
[22:39:41] <PetefromTn_> and cut the legs down so they are not so damn tall
[22:39:48] <CaptHindsight> also for hot water seal, a hot tank will also be softer
[22:39:55] <PetefromTn_> and made a nice heavy wood kart on castors
[22:40:17] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: if you move it , it's going to slosh.
[22:40:59] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsXVebkbhqQ
[22:41:24] <zeeshan|2> that is a shit load of work.
[22:41:36] <Jymmm> I wouldn't cut the legs, unless you have a great back and like to bedn over a lot
[22:42:07] <Jymmm> I like things at WORKING height
[22:42:33] <PetefromTn_> I was thinking more about the tipover factor
[22:42:50] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: larger/sturdy base?
[22:43:06] <zeeshan|2> my god
[22:43:08] <zeeshan|2> theres 209123983 steps
[22:43:10] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: but whatever works for you
[22:43:39] <PetefromTn_> zeeshan|2 Actually I was thinking that was pretty damn simple
[22:43:51] <PetefromTn_> and his anodization tank is just a rubbermaid container
[22:44:07] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/jsXVebkbhqQ?t=2m30s the dye bath is the other tricky part, that why we use the brush, spray, dip color vs water bath
[22:44:14] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: my local place does anodizing for $1/lb
[22:44:19] <zeeshan|2> with minimum charge of $30
[22:44:26] <zeeshan|2> for that, it doesnt seem worth all those steps
[22:44:28] <zeeshan|2> :P
[22:45:07] <CaptHindsight> the water based dye also wants to wash out during sealing since it wants to diffuse
[22:45:13] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight yeah so that takes away one complete tank right
[22:45:33] <CaptHindsight> the solvent dyes don't wash out
[22:45:47] <CaptHindsight> and they work even on parts not sealed for years
[22:46:09] <PetefromTn_> so just a cleaning tank, then the anodizing tank, then a desmut/sealing tank is all you need using the stuff you use right?
[22:46:13] <CaptHindsight> i did one a few weeks ago that was anodized in 2009 and never sealed
[22:47:10] <CaptHindsight> desmut is before anodize
[22:47:28] <CaptHindsight> the part we save is the dye bath
[22:48:23] <PetefromTn_> I thought the desmut/nickel acetate was the last part
[22:48:37] <CaptHindsight> http://onelabs.com/ia00.htm comes out like this when used with an inkjet
[22:48:53] <CaptHindsight> nickel sealing is after color
[22:49:14] <PetefromTn_> what is in the cleaning bath before anodize?
[22:49:25] <CaptHindsight> desmut
[22:50:24] <CaptHindsight> http://cfcanodizing.com/resources/Anodizing+Process+Diagram.gif here are the steps
[22:50:34] <PetefromTn_> http://www.anodizeworld.com/anodizing-sealant.html
[22:51:33] <PetefromTn_> the clean etch desmut is three tanks or one? or is a process ending in one tank or something
[22:51:58] <CaptHindsight> 3 separate tanks
[22:52:21] <CaptHindsight> it depends on your parts
[22:52:23] <PetefromTn_> what does the etch tank do
[22:52:42] <CaptHindsight> if all your surfaces are freshly machined it makes it easier
[22:52:58] <CaptHindsight> removes surface material
[22:53:08] <PetefromTn_> all surfaces will be freshly machined or brush finished
[22:53:15] <CaptHindsight> aluminum is very reactive and will oxidize rapidly
[22:53:48] <CaptHindsight> starts instantly
[22:54:18] <CaptHindsight> so after machining you'll want to degrease/clean
[22:54:31] <PetefromTn_> with what
[22:54:31] <CaptHindsight> and maybe etch then anodize
[22:55:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.stonechemical.com/cleaners.asp or similar alkalines
[22:55:54] <CaptHindsight> they wash away oil and grease
[22:56:00] <CaptHindsight> they don't etch
[22:56:17] <CaptHindsight> that will get your fingerprints and coolant off
[22:56:38] <CaptHindsight> then you etch to remove the thin layer of oxide that has already formed
[22:56:50] <CaptHindsight> then you can anodize
[22:56:57] <CaptHindsight> but you don't wait
[22:57:55] <PetefromTn_> nothing's ever easy is it ;)
[22:57:56] <CaptHindsight> if you are anodizing an extrusion then you want to desmut
[22:58:38] <CaptHindsight> etch is using caustic soda
[22:59:01] <PetefromTn_> what happens if you don't etch
[22:59:18] <CaptHindsight> well thats why anodizers stick to it, once you have a line set up it's much easier
[22:59:30] <CaptHindsight> it might not be an even finish
[22:59:49] <CaptHindsight> if thats not important you can skip it
[23:00:00] <CaptHindsight> but you do want all the oil off
[23:00:10] <PetefromTn_> of course it is important to have an even finish
[23:00:35] <CaptHindsight> anything that gets in the way of anodizing won't build up the oxide pores
[23:01:01] <CaptHindsight> and those areas won't hold color or get hard after sealing
[23:02:00] <PetefromTn_> so no matter how you stack it you will need 5 different tanks
[23:02:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nature.com/srep/2013/130925/srep02748/images/srep02748-f3.jpg electron miscroscope pic of some alumina before sealing
[23:02:52] <CaptHindsight> the color has to get into those pores
[23:03:09] <CaptHindsight> your pores will be larger ~40nm dia
[23:03:18] <PetefromTn_> yeah and it sounds like the colors you use do that well without an additional bath right
[23:04:18] <CaptHindsight> water bath dye has to flow into the pores, the next step is sealing in water so the dye wants to diffuse into the sealing bath
[23:04:46] <CaptHindsight> that's why hot water dye bath is tricky
[23:05:14] <CaptHindsight> you need the temp and ph to be optimum for the dye to flow into and stay in the pores
[23:05:49] <CaptHindsight> our dyes don't react with water and are not soluble in water
[23:06:02] <CaptHindsight> so they go in and stick to the pores
[23:06:21] <CaptHindsight> the hot water seal does not rinse them out
[23:06:40] <PetefromTn_> do you have to use a hot water seal?
[23:06:46] <CaptHindsight> it's like trying to rinse off a sharpie mark with a garden hose and water
[23:07:24] <CaptHindsight> the hot water seal creates the hard outer layer
[23:07:39] <CaptHindsight> cold water requires nickle
[23:07:57] <CaptHindsight> or it will be soft and brittle
[23:08:42] <CaptHindsight> http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/2009/04/why-sealing-process-is-so-important.html
[23:12:26] <PetefromTn_> so all three of those sealing process options require the nickel acetate powder in the bath
[23:12:52] <CaptHindsight> for best sealing
[23:13:12] <CaptHindsight> man it's late
[23:13:19] <CaptHindsight> have to be up early
[23:13:21] <PetefromTn_> could the clean etch and desmut tanks be just 5 gallon buckets
[23:13:28] <PetefromTn_> okay sorry man
[23:13:33] <CaptHindsight> talk Friday
[23:13:40] <PetefromTn_> thanks for the ideas
[23:13:47] <PetefromTn_> appreciate your assistance
[23:14:04] <CaptHindsight> read back over all those links
[23:14:10] <CaptHindsight> you'll be a pro soon
[23:14:17] <PetefromTn_> reading them now... doubt it LOL
[23:17:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www-old.mpi-halle.mpg.de/department2/fileadmin/user_upload/Research_Projects/Ordered_porous_Materials/Porous_Alumina/b_Fig_1a.jpg
[23:17:40] <CaptHindsight> http://pubs.rsc.org/services/images/RSCpubs.ePlatform.Service.FreeContent.ImageService.svc/ImageService/Articleimage/2012/JM/c1jm13338a/c1jm13338a-f1.gif
[23:18:51] <CaptHindsight> http://pubs.rsc.org/services/images/RSCpubs.ePlatform.Service.FreeContent.ImageService.svc/ImageService/Articleimage/2015/NR/c4nr06469k/c4nr06469k-f1_hi-res.gif
[23:25:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bluebuddhaboutique.com/blog/tag/anodizing/ why there is white anodize but it's more complicated than just using a dye
[23:27:26] <PetefromTn_> interesting
[23:32:09] <Valen> we do the first stage of anodising when we glue to Al
[23:32:34] <Valen> makes glue stick *really* well
[23:33:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.lawrencefrederick.com/custom-anodized-sheet-and-coil.html unsealed anodized sheet and coil
[23:33:51] <CaptHindsight> bbl
[23:34:24] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtYHcsq7s5A
[23:38:11] <furrywolf> damnit. the carb I wanted to clean up and use for one of the other generators broke when I pulled the float bowl off.
[23:53:28] <Jymmm> will a rebuild kit resolve the issue?
[23:54:33] <furrywolf> no
[23:55:15] <furrywolf> jbweld might. :P
[23:55:45] <furrywolf> it'll at least make it work long enough to determine what other parts of the generator are bad.
[23:56:47] <Jymmm> Harbor freight has inexpensive two part epoxy (jbweld clone)
[23:57:28] <Jymmm> perfect for 1.5 jobs before it dries out =)
[23:57:28] <furrywolf> harbor freight has an inexpensive clone of inexpensive epoxy.
[23:58:07] <Jymmm> Their crazy glue is actually good, love the gel stuff.
[23:58:26] <Jymmm> one use tubes and toss, like 3 pack for $1